The Prosperous Athlete
The Prosperous Athlete
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Sustaining Elite Performance | Steve Falconer-Bowen of Vantage High Performance

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ABOUT THIS EPISODE

In this episode of The Prosperous Athlete, we’re joined by Steve Falconer-Bowen, founder of Vantage High Performance and a UKSCA Accredited Strength & Conditioning Coach with more than a decade of experience supporting athletes at the highest levels of international sport.

Drawing on his work with Olympic and Paralympic programmes, professional tennis players and independent athletes around the world, Steve shares what it takes to sustain elite performance over the long term. Together, we explore the physical preparation behind successful careers, the realities of life on the professional tennis tour, and the often-overlooked financial and logistical challenges of accessing world-class support outside institutional sporting systems.

We also discuss how advances in AI, wearable technology and data-driven coaching are helping athletes train smarter, reduce injury risk and build careers that are not only high performing, but sustainable.

In this episode, we discuss:

  • What "physical armour" means for elite athletes
  • Lessons from Olympic programmes and professional tennis
  • The realities of travel, recovery and competing on the international circuit
  • The relationship between physical preparation, financial support and career longevity
  • How AI and wearable technology are changing athlete support
  • Why independent athletes need more than motivation to succeed

Whether you're an athlete, coach, sports professional or simply curious about what happens behind the scenes of elite sport, this episode offers an honest look at the systems, support and investment required to perform at the highest level.

This version is optimised for podcast directories: it naturally includes keywords like elite performance, strength and conditioning, professional tennis, Olympic sport, AI, wearable technology and career longevity without feeling forced.

Resources:

LinkedIn

Vantage High Performance

Support the show

The Prosperous Athlete is a production of Elite Athlete Fund, the sponsorship platform connecting elite athletes with businesses and supporters who believe in their value as ambassadors, role models, entertainers and most importantly humans.

For fans, it is a chance to get behind athletes whose journeys inspire us. For businesses, it is an opportunity to build meaningful partnerships around ambition, influence and shared purpose.

EAF helps athletes turn their stories, achievements and potential into sustainable commercial opportunities, with profits going back to the athletes.

If you believe athletes deserve the opportunity to build careers and lives on their own terms, you can help make it happen. Donate to EAF and invest in athlete changemakers.

Donate and support athletes: https://eliteathletefund.com/support/

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TRANSCRIPT 🔗

WEBVTT
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Many people assume elite athletes are financially secure.
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The reality is very different.
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I'm Rebecca Bruala, the CEO of Elite Athlete Fund, the platform that brings you the Prosperous Athlete podcast.
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Behind every start line is a spreadsheet no one sees.
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I'm Tamara McComb, Partnerships and Marketing Advisor at Elite Athlete Fund.
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The Prosperous Athlete Podcast exists to explore what prosperity really means in elite sport.
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Welcome to the Prosperous Athlete.
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This is where conversations about performance meet commercial reality, where we explore how athletes, brands, and fans can align to create careers that are not only successful but sustainable.
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For behind every podium moment is an infrastructure most people never see.
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The coaching, recovery, travel, data team, and the very real question who pays for it.
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In elite sport, we celebrate dedication and grit.
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These aren't accidental.
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They're built physically, financially, and emotionally.
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Today's guest understands this all too well.
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Steve Falconer Burn is UK SCA accredited, strength and condition coach with over a decade of experience inside the highest levels of international sport, from Olympic and Paralympic programs to the realities of the professional tennis tour.
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He's worked with athletes competing at the very top, and he's seen firsthand the difference between those who survive a season and those who build a decade-long career.
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Now, through his company Vantage High Performance, he supports travelling athletes using AI-driven assessments, wearable tech, and integrated physical preparation systems.
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Today we're talking about what it takes to sustain a long career in elite sport, the physical demands, the financial realities, the logistics behind the scenes, and how we can bridge the gap between institutional sport and independent ambition.
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High performance shouldn't just be a buzzword, it should be accessible, structured, and sustainable.
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Cool.
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So I kind of want to say let's set the scene a little bit.
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You've worked inside like Olympic systems, like neat international sports clothes, but now you're working directly with independent athletes.
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And it's even in like your company's name, Advantage High Performance.
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What is your interpretation of the phrase high performance?
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Yes, I think for me there's there's probably a few definitions depending on kind of where you look, but I always think about are you able to maximize what you've got?
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And I think with that is almost like a relentless pursuit of it.
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And I think that's a a term I always come back to is like a relentless pursuit of excellence.
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And that's one of the terms that I remember reading and being like, yeah, like a player, if they really want to get to the top, that's what it's about.
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And then to stay at the top, it's definitely still exactly the same.
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And it's not something that lets up because the moment you take your foot off the gas, someone else comes in and takes your place.
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Uh, whether it's in a team sport, whether it's in a ranking-based system like tennis, yeah, yeah, the moment the moment you kind of look away or think you've made it, there's someone coming up really quickly up behind you, and yeah, they're gonna take everything you've worked so hard for.
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Um that's kind of what I what I tend to look at or or believe.
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Okay.
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And like what do you think that most people misunderstand about um elite athlete preparation?
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I think I'm talking from the purely physical perspective, I think there's still a a big misunderstanding or misbelief in that it has to look like the sport to train the sport.
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And I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions out there.
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And it's you see it in again, I'm gonna use tennis as an example because it's an easy one to pick up.
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You see players replicating the exact same movement that they would do a hundred times anyway, but all of a sudden they've got a band around their waist or they've added a a weight of some sort as a med ball, or uh and I think some people think that's training the sport when the reality is it's it's not, you're not really overloading anything.
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And if you're talking about training principles, then there has to be certain things in place, so it has to be specific.
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And people would argue okay, that is specific, but it's it's not, it's so far detached from the training principle of specificity, which is like there ha has to be an aspect of that in anyone's training program.
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Um and I think you don't tend to see people overloading what they're trying to change, I think is another thing.
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So if you're talking about again, purely physical, you're talking about the ability to produce more force, okay.
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To get that as a an outcome, you have to overload it.
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Um, but you find people that kind of sit in their comfort zone as, oh, I'm doing a strength session.
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It's like, well, well, no, that was easy.
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Like that's yeah, yeah.
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Eight reps at that way, you've not you've not taxed anything, you've just wasted a little bit of time, or you feel like you've ticked a box.
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So it's I still think there's a misconception about really what it takes to change a physical outcome.
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And I think that's um that's probably one of the biggest things I see.
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Okay, and so as you say, you know, you kind of like you want to avoid just doing junk work as such.
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How do you interact with the athletes then to work out what is as say pursuing that relentless pursuit for more better?
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How do you kind of have that conversation with them and find out what's gonna continue moving them up the scale?
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Yeah, and I think that's it's a good point.
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I think the relentless pursuit, some people can think, okay, I've just got to do more and more, but it's that's not always the case.
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A lot of time it's about being more efficient and really being targeted and getting really real clarity on what you're going after and why you're going after it.
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Yeah.
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And then once you've got that in place, you can start talking about the how.
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And I think it's really working as a I guess a cohesive team.
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So looking from the sports coach down, the player down, and bringing everyone in who sat across that team and everyone being aligned to those common goals and getting real clarity on okay, what does this look like on the pitch or what's it look like on the court, what's what we're not seeing that we want to see.
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And then as an SSE coach, I'd I'd be looking at then okay, what are the physical underpinnings to that?
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Okay, here's what I believe would help improve A.
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And to get that done, we need to change these physical outcomes.
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And that would be how I would would kind of work from the sport backwards.
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Um and also because it's it's very different when you've got someone who's kind of junior in the ranking that's come in and has a lot to work with, then you might have those seasoned pros who you know have a lot of base um work already in the background, but they also have the potentially a history of a tired body.
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Like how um, like what do you think separates those who kind of burn out early and those who can have those um long careers?
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And and kind of adding on to that question as well is um do you think it's really helpful when an athlete comes with their own ideas and their own understanding of the sport and you have that kind of conversation, or do you think it's better that they just kind of do what an expert like you tells them to do?
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Yeah, I think on the last point, it's probably a bit of a fine balance.
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I think what you need is you need a player to ultimately be invested in their journey.
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And I think anytime you just tell tell someone exactly what they're doing and they just crack on with it, you've probably got a real kind of short-term intense period where they're gonna go after it.
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But then anyone who's uh I guess conscious of their journey, conscious of themselves, conscious of their body, should start asking questions and should really get an understanding.
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And I think once you've got a player who asks these questions, gets the answers that gives them the clarity that they need, I think you've then got a much more invested player.
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And I think, yeah, it comes away from kind of this dictator mentality of okay, I'm the expert, you do what I say, and it brings the the player, the coach, even the parents, and brings everyone into this space of mutual understanding.
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It's does everyone understand what we're going after, why we're going after it, and how we're going to do it.
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And I think once you've got all those bits in place, it's a much, much more efficient journey for everyone involved.
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Um, even myself, who, like I said, is maybe the subject matter expert.
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It's okay, like I'm bringing all these people with me.
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They're not questioning me as an expert, they just want understanding.
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I think if you can provide that a lot of time, it makes your life a lot easier.
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Um, and I think you sometimes see I was one of them, like a junior coach.
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You think if someone's asked you a question, it's like, well, look, like no, I'm I'm right.
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And you kind of panic, but I think the the longer you coach, the more you understand.
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People just just sometimes don't understand, and their questions come from a place of curiosity.
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And I think if you can you can treat everyone with that mentality, it's it's a lot easier, and you you get a much better level of buy-in as well.
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Well, you must must improve your communication skills as well as you uh as you stay in this game longer.
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Exactly.
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Yeah, you you start working out what apologies the dogs decided to play.
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Um it's all good.
00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:13.679
Yeah, you start working out though, because it's gonna be calmish.
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Sorry.
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A little French bulldog who decides every time I'm on the phone that she needs to contribute.
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Yeah.
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Um good.
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Yeah.
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Well, where are we?
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Sorry.
00:10:38.799 --> 00:10:53.039
Okay, so you're just talking about um uh you know, talking about sort of having input from the athlete um and how much like a dialogue that is, and how much like it's just do what I tell you to sort of do.
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And then we really what your thoughts on how you know approaching, you know, as you said, there's a that relentless pursuit of excellence and improvement, but how do we you know channel that into being a long-term career as opposed to someone who burns out?
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How does you know how does that sort of journey um?
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Yeah, I think I think from from the start, like I said, you've usually got a high level of enthusiasm.
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And then as players go deeper into their career, they they start working things out a little bit themselves.
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They know what their comfort space is, they know what they hate doing in the gym, they know what they hate doing on court or on the pitch.
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And it's really working out as a coach which of those you're gonna challenge, knowing that okay, look, longevity and performance are the goals here.
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Like everyone, it's it's human nature to sometimes veer away from the hard stuff, and it's working out, okay, is the hard stuff worth the battle?
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So, me as a coach, if I know players ducking out of trying to do a conditioning session, but I know and the whole team know that that that's a goal, and we know that that's gonna underpin a lot of stuff that they're not doing on the pitch or on the court, then it's an easy thing to go and be like, no, you've got to do it, because we all agreed that this is gonna underpin your performance.
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Yeah, and I think once you've got those sorts of things in place, you've got the structure in place, you're willing to have those conversations.
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I think you get a much more durable player and uh a durable competitor.
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And again, I'm speaking purely from the physical perspective, obviously got a lot of kind of psychological aspects that come into this as well, where you're kind of managing, managing a whole player journey from okay, do they have the physical capabilities to deal with what we're asking them to do?
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Do they have the psychological capacity to deal with not only their sport, but just life in general?
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And it's about putting all of this stuff around the player and really making sure that, okay, like they've got a team around them that they trust, and and we can really push on and optimize as much as they've got for as long as they can.
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And there's quite often this sort of support like you started off as we were talking before, in sort of ecosystems where you'll have loads of athletes together, particularly if you're at the juniors and you're going through sports academies, like typically this your type of expertise will be covered by those institutions.
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But what does that sort of support look like though, like realistically, if someone decides they want to step out of that?
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So you know you have um say there's some of the tennis players that you work with.
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I mean, how like how do people actually um afford that sort of thing?
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How do they approach getting an expert like you?
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Yeah, so as you said, look when you're I call it in-house, but when you're working under a governing body, it's it's different within different sports.
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So if I look at the two examples of the governing bodies that I've worked as, so working at GB hockey and the LTA, they're obviously the top of each sport, but they operate in very different ways.
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So you have a a centralized squad within kind of GB hockey, which they get all the support in-house, everything's kind of mandated.
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You work with the S and C coaches, the psychologists, the nutritionists who are all employed by what was the English Institute of Sport, it's now UK Sports Institute, and that's your team.
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You just that's who you work with.
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They're uh subject matter experts, they travel with the team, um, that they're always a touch point back at base.
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And so that's kind of how that sport operates, and how a lot of pro sports, i.e., football, rugby, they all operate with this kind of same team.
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I think if you then look outside and look into tennis, for example, you have a governing body, but the players aren't mandated to work with that governing body.
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So they might receive a funding package if they're on um, if they're working with like the LTA, they'll get a uh a grant across a certain period of time based on the agreement that's in place.
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And they can then spend that money how they want.
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So they can either access all in-house support and get everything covered, so they can go uh nutritionist, they can go psych support, they can go SNC, they can go physio, all in-house.
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So that's all provided by the governing body, or they can take that uh money that they have and invest it in their own team.
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So there's nothing that's mandated from the governing body as things stand.
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And it's a discussion that we had as a kind of a smaller team around like wouldn't it be much better if players came in-house and we at least had two years to work with them?
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And because some of these players are 16 years old, they don't know how to employ a team, they don't know what good looks like, and a lot of time you're then going off parents' opinions, which through all the good that they mean, they also don't know.
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And it it's it's then like it can be a bit of a topsy-turvy journey, especially at the start of a career when there's a lot of kind of vulnerability in a lot of places for these young athletes who've been given this kind of pot of money and the expectations are going up, they're stepping into the scene.
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Some of them are moving from juniors into senior match play, the pressures are different, and then all of all the time you're almost trying to semi-operate as a CEO of your your own little company, but yeah, it's like you're then trusting the people around you, and not all of them, like I said, know what good looks like.
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So it's sometimes really difficult.
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And I think you've got people within the institution at the LTA, there's some great people that are there and they're they're there to offer support.
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But like I said, nothing can be mandated.
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So if you've got a a coach who's like, this is what I think should do, but the parent says the opposite, then it is kind of that battle.
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And a lot of time you'll find a junior player will naturally not want to upset the parents, so we'll we'll go down that route.
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And it's it's sometimes difficult in that space.
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So then you're almost looking if you're then stepping out of the governing body space, where do you go?
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Who do you look to?
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Um, and and that's like I said, the step the space that I've stepped into now, which I've tried to take my experiences, my expertise, my knowledge that I've gained from working in the institution and at the top end of that as well.
00:17:21.440 --> 00:17:31.279
So with some some fantastic players, and now stepping out to the private space, which by all accounts is the is the wild west of of physical performance, and it it can be hard.
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:37.759
I think right a lot of time you go on recommendations, some of them are good recommendations, some of them are bad recommendations.
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Um, you sometimes find out through failure, which is obviously sometimes wasted time, wasted money, um, which is yeah, what I'm trying to trying to build and trying to give people confidence in actually like you you can come into this space.
00:17:51.839 --> 00:17:57.359
I've been at the other side, I've seen what the top end looks like, I've then moved out of the private space.
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So if you're not on a funded program, if you're looking to step outside because for whatever reason you don't want to work in-house at the governing body, there's actually support out there, and you can you can access the same level of support, some of the same frameworks and systems that were being used, and yeah, it it's open to to you and and everyone else.
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And you don't have to be a British player, you don't have to be funded by a governing body, you can just access it as long as you've got the the willingness, the financial capability to to get into that space, then yeah, we're here.
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And then if you're operating more in that sort of independent consultant space as opposed to someone's in-house within some sort of governing body, do you have to work that bit harder to make sure that any other sort of experts that they have in that you're working as a sort of as a nice ecosystem as opposed to operating in in silos?
00:18:48.880 --> 00:19:00.240
Yeah, and I think it's it's something that I'm consistently aware of that if I'm operating sometimes on a remote basis, the communication doesn't come naturally.
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You don't stand on the side of court with a coach or or someone else working in that team.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:08.000
So you have to be a little bit more proactive and reaching out to these people.
00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:21.440
So I try and bring as many people, especially into that initial stage as possible and and kind of get people aligned, or at least tell the player, look, like if your coach wants to speak to me, like please have them reach out.
00:19:21.599 --> 00:19:28.319
I'm more than happy to kind of talk them through what I'm seeing, get their opinions, get their um get their input as well, which I think's important.
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:51.440
So it yeah, it's some it's it is important, it's not always the easiest, and especially when you've got competition schedules, travel schedules, training schedules, different time zones, it can sometimes be a difficult thing to do, but it is important to at least, like I said, try and reach out and and provide some sort of um, I guess, level of access if if they do want to reach you, that it is there.
00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:52.240
Yeah.
00:19:52.559 --> 00:19:52.720
Okay.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:20:03.039
And so kind of going on to in, as you said, there's so many moving parts to um becoming a lead and sustaining that.
00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:20.960
And one of the things I was learning about you in preparation for our conversation was that this concept of physical armour that you're credited with having developed, and this is to you know, sustain high volume competition and not just for one season, but for many.
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:27.359
Like, how does this armor like manifest itself in the the body of um an athlete?
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.920
And you know, particularly how does this vary between sports as well?
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:39.680
Yes, I think you you kind of mentioned it there, you've got this concept of armour, robustness, resilience.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:49.519
There's lots of different words that people use, and for me, it's about I guess initially giving them the capacity to train.
00:20:49.680 --> 00:20:53.519
So, can this player complete a full training week?
00:20:54.000 --> 00:21:09.200
So a full training day into a full training week, because I always come back to it, irrelevant of how important anyone thinks their discipline, like SNC being the prime example, if a player cannot train in their sport, they cannot improve.
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:10.640
And it's as simple as that.
00:21:10.799 --> 00:21:16.400
So, my first job is always can I keep a player on court on the pitch?
00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:21.599
And that's in a competition and a training setting, and that's vitally important.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.200
I think a lot of people sometimes forget like that.
00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:26.000
That's primary.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:36.559
Yeah, we're performance coaches, we want to optimize performance, but be being able to be robust enough to just deal with a load in the first place, irrelevant of if you're optimizing it.
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.799
Can you deal with a baseline load of training?
00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:40.799
If you can't, start there.
00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:48.559
And I think that's that's really where people need to need to kind of be okay putting their ego to the side for a little bit.
00:21:48.640 --> 00:22:08.160
It might not be the fancy stuff, it might not be the the the speed and power work, it might just be some real key fundamentals and looking at okay, if if there's a tennis player or if there's A hockey player, a football player, like what are the what are the key issues that they face as a within individual and then within their sport?
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:18.559
And there's lots of research out there now around kind of prevalent injuries within certain sports, even difference in um surfaces, if you're looking at tennis as well.
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:24.559
So you're looking at, okay, how can I, for want of a better word, bulletproof those areas?
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:32.079
So we know that for instance the shoulder often gets exposed, or the elbow or the wrist, and a lot of times there's a knock-on effect.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:42.400
So if you're looking at the shoulder, for instance, like you cannot play tennis if your shoulder's got any sort of inhibition or any injury.
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:44.160
So you have to safeguard that area.
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:45.759
You know it's gonna go through a lot of stress.
00:22:45.839 --> 00:22:48.880
So there's some things where you look at okay, how do I test?
00:22:48.960 --> 00:22:50.400
How do I profile that area?
00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:52.880
What are some key things I would look at?
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:54.960
What are the testing scores?
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.680
How do they compare to kind of norms across a sport?
00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:03.119
How do they compare to that individual's personal best?
00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.200
And then okay, like I've got where this player should be.
00:23:07.440 --> 00:23:09.359
Are they there or are they not?
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:17.119
If they're not, okay, what do we need to change within a training week or a training program to really boost and safeguard that area?
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:28.160
So again, we're looking at longevity of a training week, a training season, and then that's without even talking about competition, which we know like the spiking load is huge.
00:23:28.240 --> 00:23:30.559
So it's trying to match that up.
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:36.079
So that's I guess the the physical armor with an example of just the body, if you want.
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:51.680
Can you share any sort of you don't necessarily have to name names, but do you have any sort of specific example of someone who really put that into practice well, and someone who kind of failed to make that physical investment as such?
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:57.200
Yeah, I mean, uh going back to probably my time in the LTA is probably the easiest one to talk about.
00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:02.319
I think when when I first started, so it was towards towards the back end of COVID.
00:24:02.480 --> 00:24:09.279
So I was I was going in, I think, April time of gonna say 21, I think.
00:24:09.519 --> 00:24:30.400
And there was already a uh a three-man team in at that point, and they've been doing some great work um prior to me getting um getting involved, and they looked at just some real simple things around okay, like how much of time are players spending on court in a training week versus a competition week, and is there a difference?
00:24:30.720 --> 00:24:32.079
And that there was a difference.
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:41.920
So we had an example of one player who was training an hour and a half a day, five days a week, so getting a total of like seven and a half hours of tennis training.
00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:54.799
But then when you looked at a competition week, there was a good chance if you're going from first round all the way to final, you're playing sometimes between 12 to 15 hours of tennis of high-intensity tennis.
00:24:54.960 --> 00:25:01.039
So you can see that gap is already there, and that's that that's a big gap, that's a significant gap.
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:11.519
And you're kind of looking at exactly you're looking at a bit of a danger zone there, or like a bit of a a threshold that needs to be pushed up or at least closer to a match week.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:20.880
And it was about presenting a lot of that data back to the players, back to the coaches, and really highlighting a little bit of the work and doing that on repeat.
00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:24.880
And then slowly it was okay, that makes a little bit more sense now.
00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:33.119
And then you started getting a little bit of buy-in from players, from coaches, training loads were starting to go up slightly, and it's just about again closing that gap.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:35.759
So, like the competition week cannot change.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:38.319
Yeah, the only way it changes is if you go out early.
00:25:38.400 --> 00:25:44.559
If you want to make the final, these are some real clear, clear sort of bandwidths that you need to operate within.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:48.720
Um, and we had some real good buy-in, and we start pushing that load up again.
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:55.599
Went through some of the fundamental stuff that we spoke about around some of the key injury sites, making sure that as SNC coaches, we were doing our job.
00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:58.640
And then, yeah, we had some real good success stories.
00:25:58.720 --> 00:26:06.480
Some of the players came out of of that year, having played the most most uh matches they've ever played in a kind of kind of career year.
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:13.839
It was a real clear example of yeah, how you if you start putting these structures in place around just some real simple things, right?
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:19.359
I eat time on court, it's the most basic measure, but some people still don't get it right.
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:32.000
And then you'll get the other end of the spectrum where some people will get it right, and yeah, they will be doing 15 hours, but the intensity is all kind of middle of the road, or it's it's real slow, loads of rest, and it again it just differs from match play.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:45.200
So it's yeah, it's kind of building building the puzzle if you want and pulling a lot of things together, but you you need someone guiding you, or someone that's at least got experience and can see the bigger picture and being like, Well, have you thought of this?
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:51.839
And a lot of time it's no, like it's so obvious, but they've they've not done it, they've just continued to kind of roll in their own environment.
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:56.000
No one's challenged previous beliefs or or systems that they've worked in.
00:26:56.160 --> 00:27:03.920
So yeah, it can kind of just take someone from the outside to come in and be like, Oh, you're not spending enough time on course, as simple as that.
00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:04.400
Yeah.
00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:09.039
Um, so yeah, that's a yeah, a good example of where it's been a success, I would say.
00:27:09.359 --> 00:27:09.920
Right.
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:19.519
And then I'm just kind of thinking, obviously, there's no some people, um you can win them over with data, as you were saying, and persuasion and things like that.
00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:41.200
But particularly if you've got, say, a junior coming in or someone who's not right at the top of any of the leagues or anything like that, and maybe they haven't got the same sort of whether it's grants or they haven't got sponsors, uh, and they're trying to think, right, well, how am I going to prioritize how I spend my time, my money, and things like that?
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:50.960
Where do you feel like this sort of long-term investment in strength and conditioning and as you say, increasing the training hours?
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:55.839
Where do you think it cut it sits in people's sort of priorities?
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.640
It's something that gets cut if you know if the money isn't there.
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:04.079
Yeah, I think it it it does.
00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:08.000
It does inevitably fall off a little bit with some players.
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:21.759
I think no one's well, I'm gonna say no one, but some people have infinite budgets because they've got really good sponsors, they've got um, they're always kind of getting to the latter rounds of competitions, and so their budgets are are not a constraint.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:34.000
When you start coming down the rankings in tennis, for example, you you start decreasing significantly the amount of income that a player gets, and that's because they're obviously not getting the exposure on the world stage.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:42.400
So you've not got sponsors clambering to get this person signed up, you've got agencies that are can can take it or leave it.
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:52.000
Uh, they're not really uh a sound or solid investment, so you're battling a lot of kind of successes or lack of success.
00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:56.799
Um and yeah, some players suffer quite badly from that.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:00.640
And I think then you're looking at okay, that budget's a real constraint here.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:07.359
And then if you've got wealthy parents, which some tennis players are lucky enough to have, fantastic.
00:29:07.519 --> 00:29:09.279
You you've got another avenue.
00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:12.000
But the reality is that that's not the case for everyone.
00:29:12.079 --> 00:29:20.480
You've got some players who don't have that solid financial backing from their family, you you don't have sponsors, you don't have a governing body.
00:29:20.720 --> 00:29:23.440
So you're almost looking at okay, like how do I make this money?
00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:25.920
And a lot of it is then through competitions.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:35.839
It might be you have some sponsors or someone's willing to pay for X amount of months to see if you're you can make a success or get them some exposure or whatever it is.
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.079
Um, and it is difficult for those people.
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:46.559
And I think if you're then prioritizing things, yeah, SNC and the support that you don't think is necessary falls off.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:50.720
So as a traveling tennis player, priority number one is you.
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:54.319
So that's your hotels, that is your travel.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:57.599
Okay, that is um competition entry sometimes.
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:05.759
If if you're lower ranked, it is your food, it is everything that you need to do, and then you go on to the next week and you do the same again, and the next week the same again.
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:07.519
So the bills just don't stop.
00:30:08.319 --> 00:30:15.440
Then if you're looking at, okay, what's my next biggest investment is probably a tennis coach, as in the skill-based coach.
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:17.599
So, okay, that's your second tier.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:22.400
But then if you're going to invest in that person, you're then paying for everything twice.
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:27.119
You're paying for two flights, you're paying for two hotel rooms, you're paying for two lots of food.
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:34.960
And so it's no short investment, it is a big investment, but it is obviously there's a big upside as well.
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:39.680
And then I think if you're looking at the third tier down, you're then probably looking at support services.
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:44.960
So I'm gonna be biased and say that SC should be the next on that list.
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:53.119
And the reason I come at that from that perspective, as opposed to a physio, I think you're looking at almost prevention and and cure.
00:30:53.200 --> 00:31:16.400
And I think if you're if you're smart enough and you you invest early enough in physical prep, you shouldn't need a physio as much in theory, because you're you're a more robust athlete, you're more accustomed to the training loads that are required, you're more accustomed to the match loads that are required, you've got the physical armory or robustness around you, your performance levels have increased.
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:20.319
And so you're getting all these things in a K, like you're a much more robust athlete.
00:31:20.559 --> 00:31:24.640
And also the reality is you there's most tournaments have physio support there.
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:31.440
Again, everyone has access to them, but there will be someone there on site at most tournaments that you can access.
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:35.599
Again, they they don't know your body as well as an individual physio would.
00:31:35.759 --> 00:32:01.440
But if you're talking about prioritization, it's a lot for me, it's a lot easier to go and get a physio and just guide them on okay, this is what I want, as it is to get someone to provide a physical prep program because we know it's it's a long-term game in physical prep, but there's no point doing a random session or a random week of training, you have to put the building blocks in place and you have to layer on top of layer on top of layer over a long period of time.
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:07.759
Um, so yeah, for me it it's that space, but yeah, inevitably it gets cut.
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:09.920
If you can't afford it, you can't afford it.
00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:15.279
Yeah, well, that's the whole point of why the elite athlete fund was set up.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:27.519
Yeah, if you haven't got you know the bank of mum and dad, you haven't got some sort of thing behind you, you know it's all well and good getting a shoe deal or some sort of kick deal and stuff like that, but you can't eat that.
00:32:27.759 --> 00:32:28.079
Yeah.
00:32:28.559 --> 00:32:31.039
That doesn't leave for your flights and things like that.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:43.119
And and and it's just so disheartening if you see potential being you know limited by the inequality of you know the lottery that is life.
00:32:43.279 --> 00:33:07.200
So, you know, what you're saying completely rings home to a lot of the conversations that we had here at the athlete fund with you know, um, with the with the athletes, and so every donation that they get from an individual, even if it's sort of fifty dollars or whatnot, people think, oh my god, oh my goodness, that's whatever part of my food bill pavers, or that's you know, at least part of you know session with someone like you and things like that.
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:12.000
They make every donation, whether it's an individual or a corporate sponsorship, makes such a huge deal.
00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:17.359
And we'd yeah, we'd really, really like to see the work that we're doing reduce any of that.
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:39.599
Because you know, as as you said actually, so at the beginning of our conversation, you know, if you do have the beauty of having a huge sort of support team, but then comes the logistics around that, and you know, that's a whole other, as you said, emotional load that comes into, as you say, being the CEO of your own company as such.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:49.839
And do you see that um that sort of emotional um labour impacting the body as as well?
00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:57.599
Yeah, I think there's there's probably examples of of both sides of it, and I think there's probably reasons for it.
00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:11.920
I think some players uh and athletes want that control, like that control, and and want to feel like if they're in control, like it's gonna go it's gonna go well.
00:34:12.559 --> 00:34:22.960
And I think some players really struggle to give up that kind of agency or ownership, and it can sometimes be a difficult place to operate in.
00:34:23.599 --> 00:34:34.320
And I think for me, the best space that I've worked in is when you've got some real strong coaching members that are willing to take some of that load.
00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:42.400
And uh again, uh going back to my time at the LTA, there was one performance like mini performance team that I worked in and operated in.
00:34:42.480 --> 00:35:10.880
And I think a lot of that success was down to having a really strong leader in in the sports coach and the tennis coach in that space, and they operated as as the I don't want to say CEO because they never had the final say, but they took a lot of that load and they managed that space, they managed the team, and I think that was a much more efficient way of operating.
00:35:11.039 --> 00:35:22.880
And I think sometimes you get a player who wants to sit at the top of this pyramid and sometimes either question or disregard certain parts of information if they, like I said, don't want to do it.
00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:33.599
And I think sometimes it becomes really difficult to get the optimal performance program then because it's you're ultimately they might be your in theory your boss.
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:47.760
So it makes the dynamic a little bit strange, like you're willing to have that challenging conversation with that player if you feel like you're going out on your own a little bit, whereas if you have the head coach alongside you, it's completely different.
00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:50.880
It's okay, I'm gonna go to the coach, we're gonna speak about this.
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.880
Yes, we're on the same page.
00:35:53.199 --> 00:35:55.119
Okay, let's take it to the player.
00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:01.360
And I think once you've got that cohesive unit around a player, I think it's it's amazing what can happen.
00:36:01.599 --> 00:36:07.599
Um, and I think, yeah, going on to this the second part of your question around like does it stress the players out?
00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:08.880
Absolutely, you can see it.
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:18.559
And I think your job as a coach, obviously, if you're around a player a lot, you can see the ebbs and flows in their mood, their state of readiness, like without any of the data at all.
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:21.360
If you know your athlete, you you know them.
00:36:21.519 --> 00:36:28.719
You can see the way they walk into either the gym, the way they walk into the breakfast room in the morning, it's like, all right, something's up here.
00:36:28.960 --> 00:36:36.719
And it's it's just having that little bit of the feel of your environment, being able to read the room a little bit and definitely read your player.
00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:43.519
And a lot of the time you can see, like you start warming up, everything, there's headphones on, there's don't really want to speak to anyone.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:49.599
It's like, okay, let's just get what we need, let's get onto the court, let's deal with this later on.
00:36:49.760 --> 00:36:54.559
Yeah, but there's been the other occasion where it's actually like this needs dealing with now.
00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:59.599
Let's can what we had planned, let's have a chat, what's uh what's going on?
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:03.519
Um, it might be nothing I want to crack on, or they might open up.
00:37:03.599 --> 00:37:17.840
And I think getting that out in the open and getting that level of trust with uh with a player, irrelevant of what sport it is, gets you to another level of being able to get them, get them in to do what you want them to do.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:29.599
And I think if you show that human side and show that they're human as well, because I think a lot of time we we think of athletes as machines or they operate in the space where it's like, well, no, like they should be able to deal with that stress, they're paid to deal with that stress.
00:37:29.679 --> 00:37:37.119
And so, well, well, no, they're still humans, they're still operating in the exact same world we are, they just do something different for their job, yeah.
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.199
Um, and a lot of time it's in the public eye.
00:37:39.280 --> 00:37:51.760
So you have a bad day, and as a sports person, it's yeah, the whole like the whole world sees you have a bad day as someone who's in an office, your your colleague and your boss might see, and you go home, and it's it's completely different.
00:37:51.920 --> 00:38:00.159
And I think that brings a level of pressure, and like players are expected to be perfect, they're expected to be nice all the time in the public eye.
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:09.280
Whereas reality is that they might be going through a family tragedy that they don't want anyone else to know about, and they're still expected to play that night.
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:15.280
And it's it's then like and then do the conference afterwards and everything else that comes with it.
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:25.440
And yeah, they they are annoyed, or yeah, they have smashed a racket, or yeah, that they they have got into a confrontation with someone like on a football pitch, it's like yeah, they're still humans.
00:38:26.000 --> 00:38:33.119
I think sometimes it's yeah, a lot of this pressure that we we say they should be able to deal with, like it's the same as everyone else.
00:38:33.199 --> 00:38:35.840
Like you can't deal with all the stress in the world all the time.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:42.800
There'll be times where it comes too much, times where it drops off, and it's just yeah, having the right team around you, I think, makes a massive difference.
00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:44.159
Yeah, yeah.
00:38:44.480 --> 00:38:56.960
So, like we've we've talked quite a lot, sort of generally, about you know, creating sort of uh long-term robust athlete, but one of your specialisms really is that it's the traveling athlete.
00:38:57.280 --> 00:39:05.920
So, can we kind of go more into like what is the reality when you're hopping on planes or cramped cars and things like that?
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:14.400
How do you go managing that whole aspect of the glamorous, not so glamorous side of traveling athlete?
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:30.400
Yeah, I mean, if you've if you've ever been to a tennis tournament, you're like you've obviously, like you said, you see the glamour, and what you don't see unless you've worked in someone's team, is you don't see them walking off a court with a loss, no interview, the only the winner gets interviewed, so they're straight into the dressing room.
00:39:30.719 --> 00:39:34.159
Uh and then it's into sometimes an empty gym.
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:41.119
Obviously, the later you go in a competition as well, in theory, you're closer to winning it, but you're still lost, and then the space just vacates.
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:47.760
So you get into these spaces, and then sometimes players just want to get out of the environment, so they want to leave, they want to go back to the hotel.
00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:51.199
Yeah, that's up there sometimes, even in the cooldown, looking at flights.
00:39:51.360 --> 00:40:00.320
So it's like because if you if you think of some of these places that they end up playing, they're not always direct flights to the next destination or the next competition.
00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:03.199
You might need to take two flights, you might need to take three flights.
00:40:03.440 --> 00:40:09.519
So immediately they're they're looking and okay, I need to we need to leave tonight in three hours.
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:14.480
And it's it's sometimes just get out, get your stuff, like go.
00:40:15.039 --> 00:40:21.119
Um I think at that point, if I'm to turn around and say, Well, no, we haven't done our cooldown actually, we need to do that.
00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:23.679
I know the exact answer that's coming back my way.
00:40:23.760 --> 00:40:25.599
So it might be an expletive.
00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:26.719
Yeah, exactly.
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:44.400
So you you again you you read the room, you you you let this one slide and kind of let them let them move out of that space, and you try your best to create the optimal environment, but yeah, at the end of the day, there's still emotion involved, there's still uh, like I said, the the the logistics sometimes.
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:51.280
If that's the only flight we can get, there's no flight tomorrow, the only other flight's the day after, then okay, we've got to go now.
00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:55.599
And it like the player may have inadvertently looked at that in advance as well.
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:58.880
So they know the moment they're walking off court, that's the only flight they can get.
00:40:59.360 --> 00:41:01.199
Um, so that there's that sort of space.
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:09.840
So then you're looking at okay, that that's not an optimal environment, that's not a high performance environment, but it's the reality, and I think sometimes it's it's okay.
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:13.599
I think then what you've got to do is make the best of a bad situation.
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:16.800
So, okay, like we're getting on that flight.
00:41:17.119 --> 00:41:19.840
You need to eat in the airport, like you have to eat.
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:26.639
We need to get some sort of nutritional but beneficial food inside you as quickly as we can.
00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:30.239
So if that's at the airport, okay, again, make the best of a bad situation.
00:41:30.320 --> 00:41:34.239
Let's get get these things on board, rehydrate, things like that.
00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:39.840
So it's it's getting all these kind of things in place in the environment that you operate in.
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:49.280
And I think there's there's the perfect recovery plan, but the perfect recovery plan very rarely happens, especially after a loss, and especially if logistics determine that you're out of there.
00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:57.599
Um, if you've got more time, then I would expect a player to operate the same as whether they lose or win.
00:41:58.159 --> 00:42:05.039
And it's then for me, they're the real high performers that okay, I've lost, it sucks.
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:11.760
I still still need to do A to C on my recovery checklist and go after those things.
00:42:12.079 --> 00:42:17.039
I'm gonna go home be like I don't have to speak to them during that, I just need to know they've done it.
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:20.639
Yeah, and it's yeah, it's just getting those things done.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:31.360
I think yeah, you're then looking at the travel aspect, which it it's so disruptive to everything you'd want to do from a recovery perspective.
00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:35.840
But again, it's the reality of the way or the environment you operate in.
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:42.480
Like basketball's exactly the same, they finish a match, straight a plane to the next next place, it could be across the other side of the US.
00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:49.920
So it's it's all those things, and you've just got to maximize what you can so you can put in certain certain things in place.
00:42:50.079 --> 00:42:52.480
So, okay, we know at the airport that food's not the best.
00:42:52.559 --> 00:42:54.239
Can we get stuff in advance?
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:57.519
We know on the flight food's not going to be enough.
00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:01.280
There's the quantity of good food, it's just not going to be enough.
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:06.639
You're gonna end up with a little pasta plate, you're gonna end up with a bread roll and whatever else.
00:43:06.719 --> 00:43:15.039
And it's it's just all those things, especially if you're operating on a budget, you you're in economy, you you may not have the food, you may just get some stuff at the airport.
00:43:15.119 --> 00:43:18.639
So it's yeah, again, it putting all these things in place.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:25.280
Like we know that okay, if you're on a flight, there's a good chance you you're not gonna optimize your hydration.
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:35.840
So we need to drink frequently, we need to potentially add electrolytes into that, and just again, creating as much stability in those spaces as we can.
00:43:36.239 --> 00:43:40.079
Um, if you're looking at jet lag, again, that's a whole different ball game.
00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:59.840
So you're looking at traveling across time zones, you're looking at disrupted sleep, you're looking at new hotel rooms, you're looking at completely different uh ends of the day, potentially when you're trying to go to sleep, or at least trying to force yourself to sleep where you're you're you're not ready, and like the melatonin's just not been released, so you you you don't feel sleepy.
00:44:00.559 --> 00:44:03.360
And so it's about trying to again put these things in place.
00:44:03.519 --> 00:44:06.559
Okay, can we get in advance of your travel if you have that benefit?
00:44:06.719 --> 00:44:14.000
Okay, so if you've got a training week leading into a competition week where you know it's going to be across two, like two different time zones, three different time zones.
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.400
Okay, what can we put in place across that week?
00:44:16.559 --> 00:44:18.400
Can we start bringing your sleep forward?
00:44:18.559 --> 00:44:20.800
Can we start pushing it back in advance?
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:25.840
So when you get on site, we can start training as close to normal as we can.
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:36.800
And then you've got things like I said, new hotel rooms where I don't know if you're the same as me, I never sleep well on night one, irrelevant of if it's a two-hour trip or a five or six hour flight.
00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:39.920
Night one is always a nightmare, and I don't have the stress of playing.
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:58.480
So it's it's yeah, trying to maybe bring some home comforts with you, whether it's a a pillowcase or whether it's like just just something that gives you a little bit of that feeling of safety, I think, is another maybe non-scientific way of trying to create a little bit of optimization within that space if you want.
00:44:58.719 --> 00:44:59.199
Yeah.
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:04.239
Um you've obviously been, you know, you're not new, sorry, you're not new to this game as as such.
00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:18.079
So um have there been any, are there still any standout experiences where your eyes really were open to, you know, you may in the tennis space, for instance, you may look at Rolex being the sponsor, or you're at Wimbledon, you're looking at the royal box.
00:45:18.159 --> 00:45:32.719
But were there any sort of moments in your career so far where you where your eyes really open to the reality of sort of the machine that is sport, in this particularly in this ones where the athletes are traveling frequently?
00:45:33.440 --> 00:45:40.960
Yeah, I think tennis is a good example, as you said, because it's it looks glamorous, and by all accounts, if you're at the top end of the sport, it is pretty glamorous.
00:45:41.039 --> 00:45:49.519
The prize money is great, the sponsors are great, the um competition kind of the the places you go to are all pretty fantastic.
00:45:49.840 --> 00:45:57.360
There's very rare would you go to a competition in a place that no one else is there, and it it's it's dire to be there.
00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.079
But as you go down the ranking, that is the reality.
00:46:00.400 --> 00:46:18.559
You can end up in the middle of nowhere, maybe 50 fans um have just come out because they didn't realise it was on, but they saw a sign, so they've turned up, and it's it's sometimes, yeah, the the difference between the top and kind of everything else below it is quite significant.
00:46:19.119 --> 00:46:33.519
But then even if you're looking at kind of Grand Slams as well, so you've got somewhere near the top, let's say 250-ish players depending on injuries and and withdrawals across kind of the the main draw and the and the qualifying.
00:46:33.840 --> 00:47:28.639
But you can see players that are turning up to Grand Slam qualifying just themselves, they have no support team, like they might have got a parent to come along with them, and and that's probably for moral support as opposed to any technical or tactical support, and it's it's still that just huge disparity between even that, like you're potentially a hundred places, maybe a hundred and fifty places between someone you could be playing next week if you qualify, but your support team looks completely different, and it's it's sometimes difficult to see that when you you see a player walk off court and there's just no one with them, they no one's there, and it it's sometimes difficult then, and you see sometimes see other teams that are really big, they're big teams, and you might see like world number one, world number two, and they've got their whole team plus partner plus a dog now, seems to be a big thing for some random reason.
00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:32.719
And they've got a dog, um what their emotional support animal, yeah.
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:35.519
They take them everywhere, they're in the warm-up spaces.
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:44.880
So like you get all these kind of huge teams around these players, and it's it's almost the players that are trying to climb that need the most support but have the least.
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:45.280
Yep.
00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:49.440
And it's difficult to then see like that disparity.
00:47:49.519 --> 00:47:54.159
It's like, okay, like you're already world number one, which means you can invest in the best of the best.
00:47:54.320 --> 00:47:59.039
But there's the players that given that level of support, you don't know where they can go.
00:47:59.280 --> 00:48:03.280
And I think that's the that's a tough part, but also the exciting part.
00:48:03.440 --> 00:48:14.159
If you can somehow find a way of getting a level of support that allows you to optimize what you could potentially do, then there's kind of you just reach your level.
00:48:14.239 --> 00:48:23.599
And I think if you can get to a position where you've you've got to the end of your career and you've you've given it everything you could have, I think that's a pretty it's a pretty good place to be in.
00:48:23.679 --> 00:48:27.920
I think there will inevitably be some frustrations in okay, I couldn't afford that or I couldn't afford that.
00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:35.280
But if you maximize everything you could, given your constraints and given your scenario, then you can look back and be like, look, I gave it everything.
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:35.599
Yeah.
00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:40.880
And I think I think that's the place if you probably speak to players, yeah, that's where they want to be.
00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:41.599
Yeah.
00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:52.800
Well, and and I and I gather you're you know you're really interested in the use of you know you know AI-driven assessments, wearables, tech, and all that in in optimizing the athletes.
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:58.480
So I what sort of metrics then are you looking at?
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:00.480
How are you measuring them?
00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:07.280
Um, and are these more are these about like as we talked about, gains or efficiency?
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:16.800
How does tech potentially play into this, as you say, into um you know if you don't have the humans behind you, can you leverage tech?
00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:21.440
Yeah, I think it's it's probably two different parts.
00:49:21.599 --> 00:49:29.199
I think the the kind of AI stuff that I've been working with has been around kind of the physical profiling, which has been fantastic.
00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:34.639
So you can if I'm operating remotely with a player, I don't need to see them or be with them to test them.
00:49:34.800 --> 00:50:02.400
Yeah, and I think that really changes the perspective on kind of remote coaching because it used to be okay, like tell me your goals, tell me where you think you're poor, tell me what your coach thinks, or speak to your coach, and then you get this picture which can be littered with biases, and then you try and put in a training program based on this, based on any film you manage to watch, observations, and you put together a program and you you you do your best with what you've got.
00:50:02.639 --> 00:50:16.079
I think now we're in a space where there's so much new tech out there, which is really exciting for like the online space, especially, in that I can give players a guide on okay, I need you to follow this instruction manual.
00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:32.639
I need you to set up a 10-meter acceleration, I need you to set up this change of direction, I need it to be across this distance, film it, send it to me, I'm gonna push it out to an external provider, and and they're gonna give me a real detailed report back.
00:50:33.039 --> 00:50:40.880
And now all of a sudden, the level of detail I can provide in your report and in your kind of training program has completely changed.
00:50:41.280 --> 00:50:53.760
And I think that's where there's a lot of these kind of companies now who are investing in that space, and there's a lot more private coaches now as well, who don't need the big facilities, they don't need the expensive tech.
00:50:53.840 --> 00:51:00.239
There's some real key things that I can have a wearable piece of equipment that sits on someone's shoe now.
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:03.199
That if I want to measure jump height, I can do it.
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.800
I don't need a built-in force plate that's thousands of pounds.
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:07.760
I can't.
00:51:08.000 --> 00:51:13.119
So, do you see this then potentially as talking about the inequalities that we had before?
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:19.199
Is there a real space for this to actually help those inequalities potentially?
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:20.159
I think so.
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:35.440
And I think that's where like if you look at the cost of what I provide and and the insights that players get versus what they would have to pay to go in-house and get all this tech and get someone with them the whole the whole time, their whole career.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:45.679
Like the difference is huge, but I think the actual performance benefit you can get, like the difference between the two of them is a lot smaller than people probably acknowledge.
00:51:45.840 --> 00:51:46.159
Right.
00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:58.000
And I think it it makes it, like I said, exciting for those players that maybe are working on a bit more of a budget that actually know I I don't need to access and pay some pay for these thousand-pound force plates or access to them.
00:51:58.400 --> 00:51:58.719
Yeah.
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.039
Um, or I don't need to be a coach that has them.
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:02.480
So I don't need the expense of that.
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:10.400
I can operate with this piece of equipment, I can provide you these insights, and off that I can make some real clear training decisions on where you need to go.
00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:10.639
Yeah.
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:16.639
And I think that's the exciting part for players that, like I said, are operating on a bit more of a constrained budget.
00:52:16.880 --> 00:52:17.199
Yeah.
00:52:17.440 --> 00:52:24.719
I also just was thinking when you were saying that you know you don't need to see them, and you know, you're not relying on stories and biases as well.
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:41.840
I was also thinking um how I was actually talking to a friend who's a who's a pro athlete, and she was joking how um she went, she was talking to um her um SNC coach and was giving her feedback on how she thought she was doing.
00:52:42.079 --> 00:52:45.679
And again, I'm doing this, it was amazing, I love this session, blah blah.
00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:51.280
And then she called the coach back about half an hour saying, Nah, sorry, actually, I was lying.
00:52:52.079 --> 00:52:52.960
That was rubbish.
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:56.079
But when you have that data, it's kind of there.
00:52:56.239 --> 00:52:59.599
You don't really need someone to say, yeah, no, smashed it, it was great.
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:02.239
The reality is that no, that was a bad session.
00:53:02.480 --> 00:53:03.199
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:09.280
And even things like just following training loads, it's like, well, no, that number hasn't moved, and I can see it hasn't moved.
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:15.039
So like you're telling me you've been pushing yourself, you have to because that number wouldn't still be the same.
00:53:15.199 --> 00:53:23.119
Yeah, so it's yeah, it it makes a place of no hiding, but also it's accountability, and it's both ways.
00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:28.320
It's okay, like yeah, you're an athlete and you've been telling me you've been working hard, but you haven't.
00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:36.880
And accountability the other way, if they have been working hard and they've been nailing everything you've given and the numbers haven't moved, then okay, that's probably more of a programming discussion.
00:53:37.039 --> 00:53:40.239
Okay, yeah, is this program not the right fit?
00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:40.480
Yeah.
00:53:40.639 --> 00:53:43.519
Because of the way, like the environment you're operating in.
00:53:43.599 --> 00:53:47.280
So tennis, for example, you never really know when they're going to be able to train.
00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:52.079
You get some players who are happy to train within kind of the environment and close to competition.
00:53:52.159 --> 00:53:53.519
You've got others that don't.
00:53:53.679 --> 00:54:00.719
You've got others that will train the day after a match, you've got others that need a lot more or think they need a lot more recovery than they do.
00:54:01.039 --> 00:54:06.880
It's like, okay, you might go four weeks of competition and you've not trained physically in the gym once.
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:21.440
Okay, like we know your numbers are going to drop off, so we have to find a way to at least maintain them, or we're doing this this kind of ebb and flow of your numbers going up when we train and dropping off when we don't, and you end up back in the middle.
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:26.159
So you look at 12 months down the line, and you're the same athlete you were 12 months ago.
00:54:26.320 --> 00:54:32.000
Yeah, um, so yeah, it kind of provides a little bit of opportunity in that space.
00:54:32.320 --> 00:54:41.599
Well, and is there any um technology that we had for a while or things that are emerging that are kind of really exciting you in terms of the ROI?
00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:45.360
Yeah, I mean, it's difficult.
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:52.159
Uh so there's the tech that's been around for a while, and and catapult's probably the main one.
00:54:52.320 --> 00:55:00.000
So um kind of a GPS tracker that you see rugby players wear, footballers wear, and that's been around for a long time.
00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:02.639
And those sports are really optimizing that.
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:07.760
So they're getting lots of metrics back around kind of high-speed running meters, they're getting acceleration.
00:55:08.400 --> 00:55:10.320
The common commentators.
00:55:10.719 --> 00:55:11.440
No, exactly.
00:55:11.599 --> 00:55:33.440
So you're getting all these numbers back, and the sports science team are looking at it, and it's like, okay, well, they've had a massive spike, so we might need to take a little bit of a lower day here, or actually, that person was only on for 20 minutes, and we know they're susceptible to hamstring issues, so we need to top up their kind of running meters, and they they've got some real data to work off.
00:55:33.519 --> 00:55:44.639
And I think that's where it's optimized and used really well is kind of keeping players in a position where they can they can train, they can compete and trying to optimize that space.
00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:51.760
I think where tennis is a bit difficult is just they're still a little bit behind in that space.
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:53.840
So catapult's been around for so long.
00:55:54.000 --> 00:55:56.639
I think it was last year or maybe the year before.
00:55:56.880 --> 00:56:04.320
A the ATP said, Yeah, you can wear it in competition now, but before that, it it was a non-existent outside of the ITF competitions.
00:56:04.480 --> 00:56:07.280
The WTA have still said no, you can't wear it.
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:08.719
So you don't want to be.
00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:10.639
So why would they say that?
00:56:10.960 --> 00:56:23.440
It a lot of it's commercial, so they've got a deal with Whoop, who so you can wear Whoop within competitions on the WTA tool, but what you get off Whoop is just heart rate data.
00:56:23.519 --> 00:56:38.159
You don't get any real movement data that you'd like to hang your hat on and be like, okay, like I can say that that was a tough match outside of the heart rate data, but we know heart rate can get spiked by anxiety, fatigue, like environmental conditions.
00:56:38.320 --> 00:56:43.679
So it gives us something, but it definitely doesn't give us as much clarity as we could have.
00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:52.239
And I think I know if you saw it, it was this yeah, this year Alcaraz got asked to take his whoop off because he wasn't allowed to wear it in a grand slam.
00:56:52.480 --> 00:56:56.719
So he had it covered in tape just to try and get some metrics, but they were like, no, you can't wear that.
00:56:56.800 --> 00:56:57.760
So he had to take it off.
00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:06.000
So again, you're looking at okay, where's this balance between commercial deals and athlete health and performance optimization?
00:57:06.079 --> 00:57:10.480
And it's like it seems like it's a little bit okay, like the commercial deal is still the most important.
00:57:10.639 --> 00:57:22.159
No, you can't wear this piece of tech that will give you loads of real clear insights into okay, your movement load, so your external load plus your internal load through your heart rate.
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:25.679
Like, no, like a commercial deal doesn't allow that, so you cannot wear it.
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:31.519
And it it's there's still that disparity on the tour where yeah, it's difficult.
00:57:31.679 --> 00:57:40.639
And like I said, even the ATP have said yes, the WTA have said no at the moment, or it hasn't gone through the process, so it's it's strange.
00:57:40.880 --> 00:57:47.360
Um kind of carrying that idea on sort of the you know, the performance, the commercial aspects.
00:57:47.519 --> 00:58:05.280
Do you see there being potential actually for athletes in the future being able to leverage the data that they've collected to create sort of financial and um commercial partnerships with companies, whether it's with you know health brands or other fitness trackers and things like that?
00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:08.800
Do you think that that could be a space that this moves into?
00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:17.199
Yeah, I mean, you've got kind of individual deals that players will make, but a lot of the time it can't be in contradiction to the tool.
00:58:17.519 --> 00:58:22.400
So you can wear these things in in uh training environments.
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:22.880
Yeah.
00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:38.719
So for instance, one of the players I work with, we heavily work with Catapult and we we track a lot of that data religiously, and we look at a lot of that on a training day and across a training week, but we know we can't wear it in the highest level of competition that she's exposed to.
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:39.119
Yeah.
00:58:39.280 --> 00:58:49.920
So it's like that there's potential for some of those, I guess, financial collaborations, but on the tour and on the match court, you will always be dictated by by the tour.
00:58:50.000 --> 00:59:06.480
And I think until you've got someone who's really looking after the players, as in not scheduling, like you said, night matches, allowing them to wear wearable tech, because there used to be an argument where, well, we don't know if it's a coaching device, but coaching is allowed now.
00:59:07.119 --> 00:59:16.159
So it's like I can't see the argument myself outside of, like I said, a commercial deal why these players can't start wearing their own tech.
00:59:16.239 --> 00:59:37.360
If they're really bought into a piece of tech and they're getting real clear insights, irrelevant of if there's a financial implication to them, as in their sponsorship or the sponsor by that kind of brand, if they've they're getting insights and they they trust in it and they feel like they can make change off it, then by all means go for it because it's it's yeah, it's there.
00:59:37.440 --> 00:59:38.960
Like there's so many options now.
00:59:39.199 --> 00:59:51.280
But do you think people could, you know, tax saving that you've got whether even if it's in the training space that you've got that catapult data, you could go to a financial sponsor and to say, well, look, we you can see the metrics of this athlete are continuously improving.
00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:58.239
That we then think that if we extrapolate this into the competition environment, we're projecting these sorts of performance outcomes.
00:59:58.480 --> 01:00:03.519
Do you think that's the sort of data that could actually be used for negotiations in the future?
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:15.280
I think I think it's difficult having not been in these, I guess, negotiations, you're always kind of trusting trusting your agent, for instance, to be able to fight your corner a little bit with these deals.
01:00:15.440 --> 01:00:20.880
And I think the sad reality is a lot of things are still based on success and exposure.
01:00:21.119 --> 01:00:21.360
Right.
01:00:21.519 --> 01:00:28.800
And I think you can you can put all these things in place, and some of this tech can inform your practice and your training.
01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:44.960
And I think it it's quite rare to get someone to invest in I don't want to say not invest in potential because people do, but the the promise of success, I think they almost want to see a little bit of it first, right, and then and then they'll invest.
01:00:45.039 --> 01:00:47.360
And I think they still need proof of concept.
01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:48.480
I think so, yeah.
01:00:48.559 --> 01:00:57.599
And I think a lot of time it's not because they don't want to back these people, it's they want everyone wants to back back a back the right horse, back the winner, and it's it's it's difficult.
01:00:57.679 --> 01:01:14.480
And unless you've got a unique journey that you've managed to get a sponsor that's bought into your story and they're willing to invest in you, it I think it's sometimes difficult because uh yeah, I I can't see it at the moment a world where I like a player can be like, okay, I've made these changes in my training environment.
01:01:14.559 --> 01:01:22.960
I think I'm gonna get better on the match court without actually showing a little bit of it, as in showing success or at least the start of success.
01:01:23.039 --> 01:01:38.400
And I think it's it's difficult because, like I said, those are sometimes the players that need the most support financially, they need more sponsors, they need more backing, which is where, like I said, the stuff that you guys are doing brings some of those people in, yeah, and it kind of pulls pulls that money.
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:41.039
And okay, you have got a pot now that you can work with.
01:01:41.599 --> 01:01:48.800
Um, but everyone's always looking for that one big ticket, and it's it's difficult to get unless you've kind of already got success.
01:01:49.119 --> 01:01:49.519
Yeah.
01:01:49.760 --> 01:02:01.760
And we've we've talked about it in in a in a few different themes, but obviously, like, and obviously with the Elite Athlete Fund, we're really trying to help people fund their success and everything like that.
01:02:01.840 --> 01:02:16.559
Have you sort of seen examples where athletes have been really, really proactive in their financial management, whether they're actually really on top of how you know where things are being allocated themselves or whether they have a financial planner?
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:24.639
And you know, if you have, um, have do you think this has actually um helped them have an extended career?
01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:28.159
Yeah, I think it's it's difficult.
01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:31.840
It's probably very individual and dependent on the individual.
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:35.599
I think you've got some players who are very savvy with their money, yeah.
01:02:35.679 --> 01:02:38.079
Um and that can be a good and a bad thing.
01:02:38.239 --> 01:02:47.440
So some of them are really kind of closed off and they see they see support as a as a cost or like an expense as opposed to an investment.
01:02:47.679 --> 01:02:59.440
Yeah, I think when you unless you can see it as an investment in the short and medium term that is going to benefit the long term, I think they see it as a cost or an expense, and everyone's trying to cut expenses.
01:02:59.920 --> 01:03:05.440
So it's yeah, it can have be a pro and a con uh in that space.
01:03:05.519 --> 01:03:12.079
I think if people are willing to invest and they can invest in the right things, the long-term benefit is huge.
01:03:12.400 --> 01:03:17.360
And I think it's yeah, it's dependent on the individual, how they see it, how they view it.
01:03:17.519 --> 01:03:24.000
You can fight your corner myself, I can try and sell my services or sell the reason why they I shouldn't be selling them.
01:03:24.079 --> 01:03:27.199
They should be coming to me and be like, I need access to what you provide.
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:33.280
So it's yeah, it's sometimes difficult and it it goes both ways, I think.
01:03:33.360 --> 01:03:35.199
Um yeah.
01:03:35.519 --> 01:03:52.000
No, it's it's well, we're we're you know, here at the sort of uh the prosperous athlete podcast, you know, we're trying to have these very frank, but hopefully productive conversations, like for everyone who's connected in sport, whether it's you, the athletes, the um the commercial partners that want to get their return on investment.
01:03:52.079 --> 01:04:02.800
And but then as you said, there's these huge inequalities of those who you know trying to come through and you know show that you know what they can do, but how they do that when they haven't got the money behind you.
01:04:03.199 --> 01:04:29.679
You know, so really we're really interested in how we can reduce that inequality so that potential isn't just defined by um sort of money, and you know, we're trying to find those solutions you know for the athlete, the governing bodies, the sponsors, and the fans, but how do we um yeah, how do we kind of pool our resources to you know develop sport as a whole?
01:04:29.840 --> 01:04:36.880
And this is a a big question, but how do you think, like, where do you think that responsibility lands?
01:04:37.039 --> 01:04:53.519
Is it you know, should we be dictated by you know the commercial deals and being really market driven, or should you know, can do you know, should we be leaning more into that community and uh trying to get um you know fans to kind of maybe fund fund athletes?
01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:59.760
Um it should it be purely performance-based, as you said, you know, you perform well, you get the sponsors coming in.
01:04:59.840 --> 01:05:24.480
I mean, it's a it's a big question, and then but be really interested to know, given the fact that you've that you've been in institutions, you've worked with athletes independently, um, like what do we need to see change for the progression of sport not to be solely dictated by sort of commercial-driven goals?
01:05:25.519 --> 01:05:40.639
Yeah, I think it's like I said is it's difficult because I think a lot of companies or sponsors usually want some return on investment, and I think it's it's it's realising or asking them what that looks like for them.
01:05:40.719 --> 01:05:59.760
And I think sometimes it can come through exposure, it can come through um kind of pushing products or pushing services, and it's it's it's a difficult space for for players to be in because again, a lot of the time if you think of like social media, for instance, it's obviously a beast for uh the commercial.
01:06:00.320 --> 01:06:06.400
Side for players, but unless you're successful, like your following is not usually that huge unless you're really proactive.
01:06:06.639 --> 01:06:06.880
Yeah.
01:06:07.039 --> 01:06:28.960
But even then you can kind of get real proactive in that space, and it's like, well, you're yeah, you you're you're not focusing on the right thing, as in you're you're losing sight of okay, you you haven't made it and you're not giving it enough effort at this moment, you're too worried about the commercial side, which is a very real I guess stress.
01:06:29.199 --> 01:06:35.280
So yeah, I I don't know whether there's a complete answer if you want.
01:06:35.440 --> 01:06:44.239
I think some players have been lucky to have like family members, I guess, pull in and and help.
01:06:44.559 --> 01:06:56.559
Others have had individual sponsors that have seen something that they like, whether it's in their personality in their performance as a youngster, and they've been like, Yeah, I'm gonna back this person for five years.
01:06:56.639 --> 01:07:01.039
Like I'm gonna give them what they need, I'm gonna give them the training environment, I'm gonna pay for what they need.
01:07:01.280 --> 01:07:02.559
Let's see where it goes.
01:07:02.800 --> 01:07:05.920
And you do sometimes get those stories.
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:21.360
Well, like before the LTA, I I worked at a different tennis center, and there was a individual who sponsored one of the players through her journey from I think from about 10 years old through to 16, and kind of provided that opportunity for her, paid her fees.
01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:26.000
She was from a low-income family, so it was that was her route.
01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:30.400
And had that not have come into play, then it would have been a difficult journey for her.
01:07:30.719 --> 01:07:36.079
And it's you do get some some of those stories where you're like, okay, like there are some of those people out there.
01:07:36.239 --> 01:07:36.400
Yeah.
01:07:36.559 --> 01:07:50.239
I think you're looking at the big the big hitters of the financial world or the big companies, it's yeah, there's always an element of unless there's some sort of um charitable arm.
01:07:50.400 --> 01:07:57.760
I think sometimes they're looking for a in a a return of some sort, like I said, through through exposure and how you're gonna get most exposure.
01:07:57.840 --> 01:08:03.360
Okay, it's with the most popular player, and it is it's difficult.
01:08:03.519 --> 01:08:10.000
So I don't I don't know the the answer of how it's going to improve.
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:18.720
I think initiatives like like what you guys have is is a fantastic opportunity for players, which is great, but they need to be proactive in this space.
01:08:18.800 --> 01:08:21.680
They can't they can't kind of let things happen.
01:08:22.079 --> 01:08:24.800
So um yeah, it's it's a difficult beast.
01:08:25.039 --> 01:08:25.199
Yeah.
01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:32.239
Have you seen athletes in enjoying kind of the business of sport as well as the the athletic side of things?
01:08:32.640 --> 01:08:40.159
Are there some people who actually quite like engaging in the social media side of things or the negotiating side of things?
01:08:40.479 --> 01:08:47.439
Yeah, I mean, some some some people you forget, like some of them are just they're still young adults or they're still teenagers, a lot of them.
01:08:47.520 --> 01:08:49.600
So some of them really do enjoy it.
01:08:50.000 --> 01:09:00.960
And I think that there's definitely a benefit to some of them really gaining that following when they're young, and it's like, okay, like people semi-know who I am, or at least enough people know who I am.
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:03.039
So I think some some of them enjoy that.
01:09:03.199 --> 01:09:10.640
I think as long as it doesn't come at the expense of kind of your long-term ambitions and success or potential success.
01:09:11.039 --> 01:09:17.520
I think if it's managed well, then yeah, if if you enjoy it and it's and it's not disruptive, like go for it.
01:09:17.680 --> 01:09:23.359
I think it's it's important to allow players to have stuff outside the sport as well.
01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:28.399
Yeah, I think it's obviously great, it exposes them to more people, which can have a negative effect as well.
01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:42.079
If you're looking at some of the especially in tennis, like the gambling side, if players get battered on kind of social media post-loss, and it a lot of the time it's people who bet on the opposite results of what's happened.
01:09:42.159 --> 01:09:45.920
So it's it has its upsides, but it has its huge downsides as well.
01:09:46.079 --> 01:09:48.880
So it's about managing that space, I think.
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:53.760
And if you're a parent just being aware that that can happen and it does happen, yeah.
01:09:53.920 --> 01:09:59.439
Um, so it's yeah, I think yeah, there's that kind of side to it as well.
01:09:59.680 --> 01:09:59.920
Yeah.
01:10:00.159 --> 01:10:10.479
So as you know, as you were sort of saying before we um sort of started this conversation, really, you know, it's you're getting into spring now finally in in the US.
01:10:10.800 --> 01:10:18.159
Does that mean um the next few months look a bit cray cray for you in terms of travel and athlete responsibilities?
01:10:18.479 --> 01:10:27.840
Yeah, I think it it varies of start moving into uh football a little bit more over here, so or soccer as they like to call it, but I refuse to call it that.
01:10:28.000 --> 01:10:29.520
Um fellow police.
01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:35.760
Yeah, so their kind of season, depending where what they're playing at, will kind of end at the end of spring.
01:10:35.840 --> 01:10:38.000
So a lot of them go into a bit of an off season.
01:10:38.159 --> 01:10:41.680
So that's yeah, it does get a little bit um busier then.
01:10:41.760 --> 01:10:50.880
And then my travel is a lot dependent on the schedule that players choose on the tennis tour because you're obviously trying to make cuts for certain weeks or competitions.
01:10:51.039 --> 01:10:57.600
If you're gearing up for a grand slam, you know you've got the cutoff is at this date, so you want to play as much as you can before then.
01:10:57.760 --> 01:10:59.119
You either make it or you don't.
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:03.680
If you don't make it, you're then looking at the next slam, which is obviously after all and Garrison's Wimbledon.
01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:05.760
So it's about balancing your schedule.
01:11:05.840 --> 01:11:13.199
So it can sometimes be a little bit last minute or unpredictable as to what a training what's a training week or what's competition week.
01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:19.199
Yeah, so um, yeah, there's there's always potential to travel, but very rarely confirmation.
01:11:19.439 --> 01:11:20.640
Yeah, exactly.
01:11:20.960 --> 01:11:21.439
Exciting.
01:11:21.840 --> 01:11:24.720
Yeah, it's exciting, exciting and frustrating at the same time.
01:11:24.960 --> 01:11:26.000
Yeah, no, exactly.
01:11:26.079 --> 01:11:29.520
I suppose you know you know what you've you've gotten yourself into, you've been in this game long enough.
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:31.279
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:11:31.359 --> 01:11:33.840
Yeah, I've definitely uh yeah, live lived through it.
01:11:34.079 --> 01:11:34.800
Yeah, no.
01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:38.880
Well, really, really appreciate all your your insights.
01:11:38.960 --> 01:11:51.920
There's a lot a lot going on in in my my head now about um you know how uh how we need to support our athletes and and uh yeah the physical, the emotional.
01:11:52.000 --> 01:11:53.680
Um yeah, a lot to unpack there.
01:11:53.760 --> 01:11:55.600
So really, really appreciate your time.
01:11:55.680 --> 01:12:00.319
Um and yeah, and all the best for uh for the the coming seasons.
01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:05.279
Yeah, and I appreciate and uh appreciate the invite and um yeah, keep doing what you guys are doing.
01:12:05.359 --> 01:12:09.039
I think there's a there's a big gap in the space that you're you're operating in.
01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:11.920
And I think a lot of players will benefit from it.
01:12:12.000 --> 01:12:20.560
And I think um, yeah, the more they can be proactive in this space, get the money coming in, they can then invest.
01:12:20.640 --> 01:12:24.239
And I think the more they can invest then, the better potential they have.
01:12:24.319 --> 01:12:28.640
And it is kind of this this cycle that will just keep going until you decide to retire.
01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:31.119
And I think that's the that's a real important part.
01:12:31.199 --> 01:12:33.680
I think see things as an investment, not a cost.
01:12:33.840 --> 01:12:40.800
And I think if you can do that and get into that headspace, invest in yourself, it's the biggest investment and best investment anyone can make.
01:12:41.279 --> 01:12:50.399
I think I think get into that space and prioritize that, then yeah, you you can maximize what you've got and actually see where where you can get to.
01:12:50.800 --> 01:12:51.920
Yeah, brilliant.
01:12:52.079 --> 01:12:52.800
Thanks, Steve.
01:12:52.880 --> 01:12:54.800
And you probably need to go walk your dog now.
01:12:55.039 --> 01:12:56.720
Yeah, well, she's fast asleep now.
01:12:56.800 --> 01:13:01.600
We're uh we're done with the conversation, so yeah, she she goes on her own timelines.
01:13:02.560 --> 01:13:03.039
Brilliant.
01:13:03.439 --> 01:13:05.279
Do you take her with you when you travel?
01:13:05.600 --> 01:13:07.359
No, no, definitely not.
01:13:07.600 --> 01:13:09.039
No, I'm not sure that'll be allowed.
01:13:10.560 --> 01:13:14.399
No, no, she's uh she's quite happy to skip in and sunbathing.
01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:15.359
Bless her.
01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:16.239
Okay, brilliant.
01:13:16.319 --> 01:13:17.039
Thanks, Steve.
01:13:17.119 --> 01:13:28.399
Well, I'm not gonna go.

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