Jared FOrman: I think ambition is great. I think you need to share that with your supervisor, like, hey, these are my goals and this is what I'd like to do. But I don't think what's helpful is to obsess on a particular title. or to obsess on looking around and saying, this is where my friends are, or this is where people who are at a similar tenure with the company are and I'm behind or in front. I think from a growth mindset standpoint, You have to look at how can you add more value to your role, to your team, to your company every single day.
Rory Anderson: Welcome back to the Property Playbook, the property management podcast that unlocks leadership lessons from experts in the trenches of multifamily. About eight years ago, I told my then 16-year-old son that he should read this book called Mindset by Carol Weg. I didn't know if he'd actually do it, but I gave him a copy and I told him a little bit about it. And to my surprise, he came back to me two days later and he was like, Mom, this book is changing my life. He was just so excited about how the principles in this book were transforming his thought processes and opening his mind to a greater vision of himself. And of course, I was delighted as his mom. And you know, as I've observed this industry for the past couple of years, I've asked myself, okay, what separates the people who continue growing in multifamily from those who seem to hit a ceiling? Is it talent? Is it experience, personality, or is it something much simpler? And much more powerful. So today's conversation is all about one of my favorite topics growth mindset. But not in the motivational poster sense of the phrase. We're gonna talk about what growth mindset actually looks like in the real world of multifamily during, let's say, difficult resident conversations or after disappointing mystery shops while learning a new role, or when you're leading teams across multiple communities. So whether you're a leasing consultant trying to earn your first promotion, a maintenance technician looking to grow into leadership, a property manager building your team, or a regional leader developing future talent, this episode is packed with practical lessons you can start applying immediately. We'll talk about having the courage to admit what you don't know. And why feedback is one of the greatest accelerators of career growth, how to build leadership skills before you ever receive the title, and why the best leaders never stop being students. So if you've ever wondered how to keep growing, even when your career feels stuck, this conversation is for you. I'm so excited. My guest today is Jared Foreman, founder of Adapt Increase, a workforce capability and performance systems firm. That helps organizations develop their people by turning learning into consistent workplace performance. Over the past 15 years, Jared has built a career at the intersection of learning, leadership, onboarding, talent development, and performance support. He's led enterprise learning initiatives for more than 1,500 employees across 45 locations. He's created over 40 learning and development programs. He's led and distributed global teams, earned a master's degree in instructional technology. And is a certified professional in talent development. If that's not enough, what I appreciate most about Jared is that he doesn't approach learning as theory. He believes growth happens through observable behaviors, deliberate practice, and thoughtful feedback. And he teaches leaders who create environments where people feel safe enough to learn. His approach is practical, evidence-based, and deeply applicable to every level of multifamily. Jared, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you for being here.
Jared FOrman: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for this conversation. I appreciate the kind introduction. And this too is one of my favorite topics, so I can't wait to dive in.
Rory Anderson: Yes, we're gonna have a great time. So Jared, tell me a little bit about what what problem you're trying to solve for companies and who's your ideal customer, just so that we have a good idea of who you work with.
Jared FOrman: Well, I think my ideal customer is anybody who is working with a workforce and they're starting to see performance issues and they see the KPIs, they see where these issues show up kind of after the fact, and they're really trying to understand what they can do to invest in their people and make sure that they understand the behaviors that need to be changed. So that they can get the results they're looking for. So that could take several different forms. As you mentioned, I've built very impactful onboarding programs to get talent up to speed as quickly as possible. Because as we know, in this fast-paced multifamily world, we don't have a lot of time and we need to get people performing at at their peak as quickly as we can. Whether that has to do with manager readiness and building out fast track programs so that those who are the best and most talented in your organization are able to stay with your organization and grow with your organization. Those are some of the areas that I focus on to help really be able to improve the performance of an organization that is oftentimes very geographically dispersed and have challenges because of it.
Rory Anderson: Well, we're excited to have you here. To our listeners, if you've ever wanted to become a better leader or build a stronger team or simply continue growing throughout your career, I think you're really gonna get a lot out of this conversation. I'm really excited to dive in with you, Jared. you know, we hear the phrase growth mindset all the time, but I think sometimes it can become a buzzword and and actually sometimes people don't even know where it comes from. Like some people have never even read this book, right? And I'm holding up the book mindset for those of you that can't see. How do you define growth mindset, especially in the context of multifamily?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, it's a great question. it's as you said before, it's a simple but powerful idea. And the the basis of Carol Dweck's mindset and how she set forth of it in the book is basically there's two sorts of mindsets. There's a static mindset in which somebody believes the talents and skills that they have are sort of there from birth and they are kind of static and they don't move. And then there's a growth mindset where people believe, no, I have these skills today, but I can grow and I can have better skills tomorrow. I can learn. I can get better in performance through my actions, through practice, through feedback. So when you think about multifamily, this really applies to every single level. It doesn't matter if you're starting out your first day as a porter. Or you're somebody who's a CFO and has had a long career in multifamily. The idea that you can do better today than you did yesterday and learn something new today that you didn't know yesterday is applicable to everybody across the board. So it's really approaching the way you walk in and the way you show up every single day with that intention that I'm gonna learn something new today, that I'm gonna get better at something today, and that's gonna impact my team and my company.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, one of my favorite things that I used to tell my former students was you and this this comes from mindset, but it's that I might not be able to to do something, but I can say I can't do it yet. And that word yet is the powerful, transformative word that helps change your brain from I can't do it to I'm going to be able to do it. I just have to put more effort into it, right?
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. you think about some of the studies and research that have been done that say it takes ten thousand hours to to get to a elite level of anything. You're talking about those of you out there or listening who are musicians or played instruments. you look at that amount of time, you have to be okay with the idea that you're not gonna be good for a while. I mean, it's why many parents don't buy their children drum sets, right? 'Cause they're gonna have to sit there and listen. to bad drumming for quite a while before that person before the child gets good. So i yeah, it's just part of the process.
Rory Anderson: It is, it is. I'm laughing because my college-age son, who doesn't live with us, actually just bought a drum set and is starting a band. And he is actually a very good musician, but he just asked us if he could keep his drum set at our house. And I was like, I don't know,
Jared FOrman: Ha ha ha.
Rory Anderson: I don't know how I feel about that, but it is. It's here sitting here at my house.
Jared FOrman: Love it.
Rory Anderson: so do you think growth mindset is something that people naturally have, or is it a skill that they can intentionally develop?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, it's a great question. I think with any skill or capability, there are people who may have natural inclinations towards it or openness towards any particular skill and talents is what we usually call them. for example, when I was younger, everybody told me all the adults in my life told me I was going to be a lawyer because all I did was go around and ask why and ask questions constantly.
Rory Anderson: Ha ha
Jared FOrman: but I I really don't think I'm very unique in that way. I think a lot of children have that thirst for knowledge that sometimes we kind of push away or push down for different
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: reasons as we become adults. So, you know, really the whole idea of growth mindset is that we aren't fixed and we can learn and we can grow. So growth mindset really doesn't come down to any special, you know. talent where you have to be able to run real fast or jump real high. It really comes down to simple behaviors that you can do and put into practice today, tomorrow, that are gonna help you grow that mindset and see the rewards of it.
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm. I I love that. I think that's very true. you know, earlier in your career, you entered affordable housing, knowing very little about that world. So tell me about that experience and what did you do? How did you navigate that? Maybe talk about that from a growth mindset standpoint. And talking about why why is admitting like I don't know. So difficult for so many professionals.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, honestly, I wouldn't have been able to grow in my career, do many of the things that I've been able to accomplish without having the willingness to kind of jump in the deep end of a pool. And maybe that started when my big brother threw me in the deep end of the pool when I was younger and said, figure it out, right? but in all honesty and looking back, I was I was recruited out of I was working with a hospitality company to come in and be the director of of training for an affordable housing company. And I jumped at it. I jumped at the opportunity. And I think in a lot of ways people could look at opportunities like that and come that come in their lives and be fearful and and really live in their fears of I don't want to look at an experience. I don't want to ask a question that makes me look stupid or be criticized. And so one of the things I want to say today is having a growth mindset is simple, but it's not easy. And the reason
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: it's not easy is because you have to get over that fear. You have to be courageous enough. And you have to Feel that your growth is more important and be more motivated by your curiosity than you are motivated by your fear of looking like you don't know something. So even stepping into that role where you know I didn't know much about the affordable housing world or really the multifamily world in general, I had to Think to myself, okay, I'm gonna be I have the capability of learning. And because of that, I can grow into this role. And and that is really a powerful mindset. And it's a powerful mindset because it allowed me to take on this new opportunity and really have a career in which I've, you know, been in or adjacent to multifamily for quite some time.
Rory Anderson: I love that. You know, it reminds me just my my experience in this world. And and I've been really transparent with our listeners about this podcast. This podcast started because I was like, I need to know more. I need to know more about this industry, and I need to be connected to people that know more than I do. And that was hard. That was hard for me because I w came from a place where I felt like I knew my job pretty well and I was and
Jared FOrman: Sure.
Rory Anderson: I was good at it and I felt confident in it to a place where I didn't know my job well and I had to learn and I had to learn from people that knew way more than I did and were way more well versed than I was in this industry. but because of that, I have learned so much in a short amount of time and I've met so many people who are have been very generous in in saying, yes, of course I'll I'll share with you my knowledge and my experience. And and I've been so grateful for that. So I completely agree with you. And I think sometimes it is hard to say, I don't know something. It is hard to say that, right? It's it's hard for us to admit that as adults, I think, because sometimes we have a perception of ourselves that we should know everything. But when we do that, it just opens doors of opportunity for us. And it often breaks down walls too. in in in relationships with others when you say, you know, I'm not really sure about that all but I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to find out that humility
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. You can look at it as I'm sorry, go ahead.
Rory Anderson: no, no, I was just gonna say that humility really helps create, I think, better synergies.
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. You have to look at it as an opportunity. I mean, every day's an opportunity, every conversation's an opportunity to to learn more. I mean, when I came into that organization, I knew right away I had to have the intention of learning and building relationships with key people that would help me along the way. So whether it was our compliance director who was an enormous help. and you know provided resources that I could that I could take and read and come back and ask questions about or it was you know particular courses that we had on our learning system so that I could you know get the foundation of fair housing and things along those lines. And it honestly might sound jaw dropping to some people listening. Like how could Somebody come into an industry that they don't know anything about and lead a learning and development department. Well, the foundation of what talent development training, whatever you want to call it, is, is really being able to learn concepts, break them down, understand how to turn those into learning opportunities, work with subject matter experts to ensure the content is accurate and
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: be able to disseminate that in in ways where people can practice and learn and and and track that change to behavior, which you know drives business results. So that's really the skill set. You look at your learning department, that's the skill set that they have. so the
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: best thing leaders around them can do is to you know just be open with them, keep them in the loop and share those resources.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I agree. Tell me about how you built relationships with subject matter experts when you were going into that environment. And what advice would you give someone who's brand new to multifamily and feels intimidated asking these questions?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I think you can start small. You can find two or three people in your sphere who you're comfortable with. You know, you build relationships like you do anywhere. You find you try to find common ground. Ask people about themselves. A lot of times we forget that people's favorite topic is usually about themselves, their children or their pets. So ask them about themselves and and you know, then you can start to find common ground and and share what is going on in your world and what questions you may have. so you have to take a little bit of stock into what do you know, what do you want to know, and who are the people and the resources that can can get you where you want to be. And there's usually so many resources out there. I mean, for example, I built For a client and e-learning course that was about the leasing consultant. And it was actually an interview with every other role at the property. And every other role of the property, whether it was the maintenance supervisor or the system manager or whomever it was, talked about how they relied on the work that the leasing consultant did and how they supported the work that the leasing consultant did. Think about the people around you not as separate from you, but as part of a working team. And by you know, making sure that you're interacting, building those relationships, you're gonna be, you're gonna function better as a team.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, and I like that because I was just thinking, you know, going into a new environment, it's important to learn what other people on the team do. Right. You might not become that the expert that they are, but you at least need to know what they do and how they do it and have some sort of familiarity with what they are doing in their position because that just makes your team stronger. If you know you can go to them for certain things that they're more expert in than you are, that's that's what a team is, right? That's that's great.
Jared FOrman: Hundred percent. And that's gonna happen at any level that you're at. It doesn't matter if you're a community manager, it doesn't matter if you're working in the accounting department or HR, wherever. The you're never gonna be the expert at everything. And so the smartest people and the smartest leaders I've ever seen try to hire and surround themselves with those who are smarter than them in certain areas.
Rory Anderson: Mm mm.
Jared FOrman: And By doing that again, it takes getting past that feeling of inadequacy or fear and and saying, No, I'm I'm doing this because this is gonna help us perform better and ultimately it's gonna make you a better leader.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I agree. What do you think leaders can do to create an environment where their teams actually feel safe in saying, you know what, I just I don't know yet.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, that's that's huge. I mean psychological safety is a big part of leadership. If you don't have psychological safety with the people that you work with, they're not they're gonna be guarded, they're not gonna share information with you that could really help you problem solve and move the team
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: ahead. So it really starts with you modeling it yourself. I believe At the Apple store, they have a phrase that they use when somebody asks a question and the associate doesn't know the answer. They say, Let's learn this together. Right? So I think that's something that leaders can can use, right? It's it's
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: I don't know just like you said, I don't know this today, but let's figure it out together. And now you've created cohesiveness, you've created a team, you you've created, you've put each other. as as equal team members who are working towards learning something. And then once you learn it, you can strategize how you're going to apply that information. So it's really important to model it. When somebody asks questions at a meeting, tell them, hey, that's that's a great question. I'm glad you asked that. And it's important that we are all on the same page and we all understand this because of whatever the the reason is. but you really have to start with yourself as a leader and model that
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I love that. One of the my favorite quotes from the book is no matter what your ability is, effort is what ignites that ability and turns it into accomplishment. And that effort often is just recognizing that you don't know something or you can't do something yet. And then you put in that effort to to figure it out, learn it. I love the the concept of let's learn it together. Yeah, those are all great, great things to to I think help your team understand. Hey, we're all in this together, and we're gonna become better together. So tell me about, let's kind of switch to feedback, because feedback is a big part of the concept of growth mindset. I want you to talk to me about your observation when people become quote-unquote defense attorneys when receiving feedback instead of maybe students. So talk to me about that. How do we overcome that?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, so I was I administered and managed secret shopper programs at multiple different companies. And it was amazing where even very entry level, not very experienced leasing consultants, when they got their first shop, they kind of transformed, we would laugh and say, you know, they transformed into a defense attorney, right? And they're Hundred percent of their focus was I didn't do that, that's inaccurate. Let me show you the evidence, let me show you the proof, getting into the the CRM and these were the notes that were taken. And it really defeated the purpose of of the entire experience, right? The entire experience is meant to be to give you feedback that you can look at yourself and say, Okay. Here's something that I can do to try to improve. Because I heard the term recently, you can't read the label when you're inside the box. Right. So you
Rory Anderson: That's good. That's really good. I haven't heard that one.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, so when you're inside the bottle you can't read the label. It takes somebody on the outside to be able to help us see ourselves sometimes because the way we intend to communicate or the way we intend to be isn't always the way it comes off to other people. And that's
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: n and and that doesn't mean you're you're wrong. It just means you need to be aware. Right.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: And and miscommunications happen all the time. So when I would run these secret shopper programs, I always tried to make them much more about the carrot, the development, right? Never never about the stick, as they would say, the old adage. So we would run what we called every month we would do rewarding Wednesdays and we would meet with the whole group and We would look at a particular aspect of the shop report and from a development standpoint, but there was a a rewarding aspect of that. We would reward not just top performers, but those who had the highest gains in performance. And I think that's a really important lesson for leaders when you're looking around these fun competitions and things along those lines. Because not everybody starts at the equal Starting line, right? Some people have been doing this for a while, while others it may be new. So I think it's really important to not just reward and recognize people who are at the top, but also those who are growing and progressing. And that plays right into our topic of the growth mindset. So when we're thinking about this type of feedback, it's really important to Take a step back and say, okay, even if this isn't 100% accurate, there's gotta be some kernel of truth in here. There's gotta be something in here that I can look at and say, you know, let me try this. Let me try to adjust the way I'm doing this and see what the results are.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, and I think the very definition of fixed mindset versus growth mindset is if you're in a fixed mindset, you automatically become defensive about the feedback. So if you're becoming defensive about feedback, that means you're in a fixed mindset about that thing. And you can be in a fixed mindset about something and in a and a growth mindset about something else in your life. That's something else I think that's important that the book points out. So If you ever see yourself becoming defensive about it, that means you have a fixed mindset in that and you think you cannot change. So that that's a good clue for you to tune into and say, maybe, maybe I need to take a step back and think about why I feel like I can't change and how do I turn my mindset around so that I can change.
Jared FOrman: And that's a great point because when you're in a fixed mindset, you sort of attribute your performance to almost who you are, right? And you're and so when somebody says, Hey, you could get better at this, it's almost a personal affront to
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: your essence. And so what are people gonna do? They're gonna dig in their heels and say no. I'm not this because they don't feel like it can change. So if you have some if you're somebody who comes with a growth mindset and you say, No, I can get better, then you just look at that for what it is, which is feedback that helps you progress.
Rory Anderson: Exactly. And think about it from a leadership standpoint. If I am somebody's supervisor and I go to them and say, Hey, Jody, I've noticed this lacking in the way you're talking to our customers or or to our residents. and I really need you to work on this and I think you can do it. And and Jody says, what are you talking about? Like I don't have a problem with that. Versus Jody says, Thank you so much for pointing that out. I I know I can do better at that. I know I I understand what you're saying and I want to be better. Like, how is my perception of Jody going to be? Right? It it's gonna be different depending on that response. So I think that's what's important for all of us to remember because all of us have somebody that we that we report to usually. So we have somebody that is gonna give us feedback and we have to be willing to take that feedback. And I'll be the first to say that I haven't always been good at taking that feedback. Sometimes I've been the one that's been like, wait a second, that's you know, are you sure? Are you sure that that that I need to work on that, right? And of course it is something I need to work on, right? So it is, it's really good for us to see that. You know, when you built your onboarding coach program, I know you intentionally invited feedback from like A maintenance technician and all the way to the executives. So, what did that experience teach you about collaborative leadership and feedback?
Jared FOrman: So I walked into a new organization and they knew that they were having issues with turnovers, specifically short term turnover. Once people sta were there for about a year, the long term turnover really wasn't as much of an issue, but it was the kind of short term turnover. So we decided that creating a a peer coaching onboarding program was was a good solution. And and just like you and your son with reading books, I I obviously went out, read books, listened to case studies, tried to understand, you know, where these programs fall short. So I had a really good basis of the overall direction. But at the end of the day, I didn't feel good just me sitting in my office and saying, I know what this huge program that's gonna impact everybody in the organization should just come out of my head. I mean, the the hubris of that would have been beyond, I think. So what I did is I created a committee of people, like you said, from frontline maintenance people to the executive level, and we met regularly and we discussed different aspects of the program. You know, where should This learning take place? How should it be structured and what tasks and topics should be done before others? And it was really, really important for me, especially for those who are on the front lines, to understand what the practical realities were of the day-to-day work and where me sitting in my office might have a misconception of what is necessarily doable or possible. or how the work is changed that I wasn't aware
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: of. without that, it really wouldn't have been anywhere close in my mind to as as successful as a program as it was, which actually went on to to win an award. And at the end of the day, I think another lesson for leaders in this way is that committee was spread out throughout the organization. And they were before we even rolled out the program, they were in the field singing its praises. Hey, this is gonna be so great. I mean, we're part of this, and you know,
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: what you can't you you're not gonna believe what's what they're gonna do, and this is gonna be so great. And so they became the promoters of of the program and they also felt, which they did, that they had ownership over that program. Because they helped develop it. and many of those who were in that committee went on to be coaches and active in the program. So I think for leaders who are looking to make those types of impact, it's really important to kind of cast a wide net, to get feedback from other people, because it's just gonna make everything stronger all across the board.
Rory Anderson: I love that so much. I actually worked on an LMS system for a company and helped develop it. And so I know exactly what you're talking about. And one of the things that I found was completely invaluable was was talking to the frontline people that were going to be using this training potentially, you know, for the next set of people coming into the roles and having their expertise and insight. I mean it w it just the training would not have been as good had we not done that. hands down, you have to have that feedback. And I love the galvanizing aspect of it where people are like promoting it and ex and they're excited about it. Right. When you bring those people from the front line in and you and you ask questions and you value their feedback, you're it's just gonna be a better program. I so I love that you I love that. I wanna I wanna switch Topics now. let's say the segment would be called Build Your Build Value Before You Build Your Resume, maybe. so if somebody listening wants to become a property manager or a regional manager or maybe even a VP someday, what what should they start doing now, even if they don't have that title yet?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I think that is a fantastic question. And it's a position that some of us who are listening today are in, and many of us who are listening have been in that position. I think ambition is great. I think you need to share that with your supervisor, like, hey, these are my goals and this is what I'd like to do. But I don't think what's helpful is to obsess on a particular title. or to obsess on looking around and saying, this is where my friends are, or this is where people who are at a similar tenure with the company are and I'm behind or in front. I I don't think that's helpful. And I think that's actually something that could end up wasting a lot of energy in a kind of a dead end that's not gonna get you where you want to be. I think from a growth mindset standpoint, You have to look at how can you add more value to your role, to your team, to your company every single day.
Rory Anderson: Yes.
Jared FOrman: And that's really what it comes down to because people who add value are people who grow. those are the people who get recognized. And then to take a step back, because I've seen at times where Associates feel like, I'm ready for that next level, but they really don't understand what that next level is. They
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: don't understand the day-to-day work. They don't understand the role. You know, probably most of your job descriptions for your organization are are publicly available, or you could certainly ask your HR department or your manager, hey. I want to be a community manager. I want to be an assistant manager. Can I see that job description? And then go through it, talk to people who are doing that role, and say, like, here's where I think I might have a gap. Be honest with yourself. You know, maybe you're going from leasing to an assistant manager, but you haven't really done renewals yet. Maybe you're want go from an assistant manager to a manager, but you don't know enough about. vendor relationships or financials. So
Rory Anderson: Yeah, you don't know how to budget. You don't know yeah.
Jared FOrman: Sure, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? Like nobody necessarily expects you to be at that level. But to get to that level, that's where you need to build a plan with your manager and say, hey, once a month, here's these areas, and I wanna can you sit with me or give me assignments and give me some stretch goals so I can start learning in these areas. I heard a really successful businessman once say. He won't promote somebody until that person has prepared somebody else to do their role.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: And think about it, Rory. If I'm a regional manager and I have an assistant manager opening, let's say I'm a regional manager and I have a community manager opening. And I have two assistant managers who have the same tenure, they have the same capabilities, but one of those assistant managers has worked with and prepared their leasing consultant to step into their role, where the other one has not, who are you going to?
Rory Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. It's true.
Jared FOrman: So we have to really think about being intentional about understanding what those roles are and you know working with our team and the resources we have to grow, but then also re taking a hand down and helping those who want to step into where we are to grow. Because I'll tell you what, in any industry at any level, the more you move up, the more you have to get work done through other people.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: So the ability to teach, to guide, to coach is invaluable as you move along in your career. So the earlier you can start building that muscle memory, the further you're gonna be.
Rory Anderson: I totally agree. And I I think if somebody wants to grow, but maybe their company doesn't have an immediate position available, in order to keep progressing, what they can do is exactly what you just talked about. Learn about the role you want to be in and find out what that person does in their job every day and find out what your gaps are, then go and fill those gaps. Because at some point that opportunity will be open to you. But but if it becomes open to you and you don't have those gaps filled, You're not going to be ready to take that job and you will not be the ideal candidate. That's just there's going to be somebody that has all the things that you maybe don't have because they've been working on it and you have it. So you can't just expect to have that opportunity open to you if you haven't done the work and the growing to get yourself to that point.
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. And if you're a community manager out there, ask yourself this question. If you had to be away from your property without any notice for a week, how confident are you that that property is going to move along without skipping a beat? How many calls,
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: text, emails do you think you're going to have to take from your assistant manager who doesn't really know? what they need to know to be successful. Now certainly if that person just started over the started the role, that's gonna be the case. But if this person's been with you for a while and you're thinking yourself, no, if I was away for a week, I'd be bombarded with communication coming my way. That's a telltale sign to you that you should be spending some time working with that person and helping them grow.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. How do you think staying curious after you become the expert plays into growth mindset?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I think that's that's really, really important. I had a regional manager tell me once that when I came on site, he felt like I came to support them rather than as a sort of gotcha or to come down and say, Hey, you guys are doing this stuff wrong and I I really that was one of the better compliments I ever got. in the industry. And I think the reason is you have to go in, especially when you go in on site as somebody who's a regional or corporate, I would always say go in with curiosity and not conclusions.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: It's easy from afar to look at the financials, to look at reports and say, I know exactly what the issue is, but every situation is different. Properties are so different, there's so many moving parts. what I would suggest is go in and say, Hey, what am I missing? I'm noticing this. Tell me what you guys are experiencing, tell me what you know roadblocks you're you're running into, and then let's work together as a team. and that's where you afterwards can bring in your expertise to help solve the problem. And you're gonna foster a team environment where people are gonna feel comfortable with you, you're gonna build those relationships, and the next time something goes wrong, which Rory it always does in multifamily,
Rory Anderson: Yeah.
Jared FOrman: that person's gonna reach out to you and say, Hey, we're having this issue, can you help? And it's just gonna minimize those issues and get them solved much more quickly. And if you come in with that, I already have a conclusion, I'm already gonna tell you what you need to do, it you're not gonna have that same result.
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm. When you I mean, I know you kind of talked about this a little bit, but what's something that you learned from your experience with working with maintenance technicians or leasing professionals that completely changed your perspective in your role?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, there's a couple of stories. we wanted to really recognize our maintenance people in one of the companies that I worked with and so we created maintenance appreciation month. We had all sorts of fun contests and I dressed up as a talk show host and we did trivia and it was a great time. But one of the things that I thought was best was called Porter for the Day. So we had all of our corporate folks pick a property and they went and worked as a porter alongside that porter for four days. So one year I had pressure washed dumpsters, one year I did trash outs and yes they gave me the top floor walk-up, probably worst trash outs that were available. But hey, getting in the trenches with people, I'm not gonna sit here and say I'm an expert on maintenance because of it. But it again, it builds that camaraderie where people look at their leaders and say, Hey, they're they're willing to jump in here in the trenches. They don't they're not looking and saying I am better than this person or anything like that because my position or title. And so some of the best conversations we had were during lunch and where they would talk about, you know, issues and share what's going well and be very proud of their accomplishments. And so I think I think that's important. It's it's important to really keep that communication going. One other example, because you also mentioned leasing consultants that comes to my mind is I was working with a client who's a multifamily company and helped put together a training on phone etiquette and phone conversations because as happens they're looking at a report that says people aren't picking up the phone. Okay, so we kind of are like, okay, well let's give them confidence and skills around picking up the phone. Great training, interactive role playing, lots of good sharing. but what came out of that for the trainer who was doing that was that the hesitancy for picking up the phone was not because they weren't confident in talking to prospects. It was because when residents who were upset would call in, the leasing consultants would be tasked with having to handle those issues.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: So the least tenured person who probably has the least capability to solve the problem was being
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: tasked with dealing with these upset residents. So at the end of the day, you've got to get closer to the work and build those relationships or you're really not going to know what the core issues are to be able to fix it. And you could end up running down rabbit holes and wasting a lot of time and energy when it could have been as simple as changing a policy and a procedure of how things work.
Rory Anderson: my gosh, such good insight. I love that. So I know we gotta kind of wrap this up. I wanna I wanna ask you if someone listening wants to leave this episode and start developing a stronger growth mindset this week, what's one action they can take just in the next twenty four hours? What would you say?
Jared FOrman: First, it would start with looking at yourself and saying, is there any part of my work that I think I can do better at that I'm struggling with? It could be resident conversations, it could be some part of your tour, it could be anything that has to do with you know communication with your peers or learn learning a system, whatever it is. We are all struggling typically with something in our role, and then say, Who's a trusted person that I can ask to get feedback on what what that is and how I'm performing in that area? And who can help me or what resources are there to help me learn in that area? So you can start small. You don't have to start and say, Hey, I'm gonna come in tomorrow and I'm gonna learn a whole CRM in one day, right? that's probably not what's what's gonna happen, but people underestimate what they can do long term and they overestimate what they can do short term. So small incremental improvements every day, once you look back a year, three years, five years, it's incredible the progress that you would have made. But it just starts with that intention of being curious and saying, I'm gonna look at myself and see what I can do better.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I love that. I love that. I would say for me, if you have not read this book, Mindset, go read it. And you know, this is just a n this is a free advertisement for mindset. just
Jared FOrman: Yeah.
Rory Anderson: because I love that book so much. But if you haven't read it, read it. It's it's easy reading. She she's a psychologist f Stanford, but she writes it for the layperson like us who, you know, doesn't understand psychology at that level, but she it's amazing.
Jared FOrman: Great book
Rory Anderson: imagine somebody who starts their first day of multifamily today, fast forward ten years, right? What's the difference between the person who becomes an exceptional leader and the person who just stays exactly where they are? They're they're kind of stagnant. What choices along the way separate those two careers in your mind?
Jared FOrman: It's it's incredible. Rory, both you and I were were teachers and it's interesting because you would look at other teachers and say, Hey, this person has twenty years experience and this other teacher has twenty years of one year of experience. And what it what I
Rory Anderson: Ha yes.
Jared FOrman: what I mean by that is they never changed. They did everything.
Rory Anderson: Yes.
Jared FOrman: It doesn't matter if you were in their class in 2006 or 2026, you're getting the same activities, the same everything. So the amount of growth that can happen from what I mentioned, just day by day, doing a little bit, learning a little bit more and a little bit, getting a little bit better at what you're doing, is really a huge stark difference. Because being in experience is just a skill or capability gap. And with
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: a growth mindset, it's temporary, right? So if that's temporary, every day that person gets better. Imagine they're climbing a mountain one step a day while the other person is frozen in place. it's it's gonna be an amazing difference over the years of a career. And I would say this with no matter where you are in your career, maybe you're even a regional manager or a corporate person and you're thinking, Hey, I'm in my mid 40s. How much more can I learn and grow? Well, if you're in your mid 40s, you probably have 20 to 25 years left of your career. And you may think, hey, I'm super experienced, and you are, and you've learned so much. But do you want to be in the same place in 20 to 25 years and have the same knowledge and same capabilities? Most people I think would say no. And so it doesn't matter where you are in your career. career, you can always take that next step.
Rory Anderson: Hmm, I love that. If there's one thing that I hope our listeners take away from today's conversation, it's that your career growth doesn't begin with your next title. It be begins with your next choice. And it's that choice to ask questions, even when you're afraid you should already know the answer. It's the choice to hear feedback, right? Without immediately defending yourself. It's the choice to volunteer for the opportunity before there's a promotion attached to it. And I think we've talked about this too, the choice to stay curious, even though even when you've become the person that everyone else considers the expert. I love Jared your reminder that growth isn't this linear event. It certainly isn't about being perfect. It's about becoming just a little bit more capable, right? Than we than you were yesterday. So challenge to all of our listeners this week. Find one area where you've gotten comfortable. And I want you to get curious again. Ask a better question. Seek out some uncomfortable feedback, maybe. Learn from somebody on the front lines. Volunteer for something that stretches you. Because as you know, as Carol Dweck puts it in mindset, becoming is better than being. Jared, I just I can't thank you enough for sharing your experience and your stories and your perspective with us today. It's been so fun to have you on the show.
Jared FOrman: been absolutely my pr pleasure. I love the topic, love the conversation. I I hope the listeners get a lot out of it.
Rory Anderson: so good. I love this this topic. I told Jared at the beginning, like, this is gonna be my one of my favorite episodes, I think, because I just am so passionate about growth mindset and how much it changes our lives. we have we usually do an unpaid advertisement, Jared. So I don't know if you have something that you want to share, but I always love to ask, what's one thing that you can't live without or one brand you just love? Tell me something about you that you love.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna cheat a little bit. I think the most important things in life and and to me are are spending t quality time with friends and family. So that's really the one thing I can't live without. One of the ways I do that is I'm I'm a golfer and not necessarily a great golfer, but so I the reason I I do that is I enjoy really spending time outside and I s enjoy having uninterrupted time with my friends where we can really kinda get away and and connect. So if I were to pick one item, it would probably be my my Cleveland sand wedge because my driver's giving me problems right right now. But the sand
Rory Anderson: Ha
Jared FOrman: wedge from a hundred yards and in is is a lifesaver.
Rory Anderson: I love it. I love it. Commercial for golf and Cleveland sand wedges. Okay.
Jared FOrman: Yeah.
Rory Anderson: Good. That's good coming from someone from Florida, right?
Jared FOrman: Absolutely.
Rory Anderson: I love it. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Jared. for those of you listeners out there, just a note, we now are able to be viewed on Apple Podcasts. You can see the full video footage and episodes. there which is really fun for us to have that feature now. And So Jared, if there is a way that if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to contact you?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, sure. you thank you for asking. You can find me at adaptingcrease dot com or you can reach out to me personally at Jared at adaptincrease dot com, send me a a message and I'd love to talk and see what we can do to bring growth mindset and better performance to your organization.
Rory Anderson: And we'll put that in the show notes as well so that you can find Jared's information. Until next time, keep building great teams, keep leveling yourself up, and go be a light and a blessing to someone else.
Rory Anderson: Welcome back to the Property Playbook, the property management podcast that unlocks leadership lessons from experts in the trenches of multifamily. About eight years ago, I told my then 16-year-old son that he should read this book called Mindset by Carol Weg. I didn't know if he'd actually do it, but I gave him a copy and I told him a little bit about it. And to my surprise, he came back to me two days later and he was like, Mom, this book is changing my life. He was just so excited about how the principles in this book were transforming his thought processes and opening his mind to a greater vision of himself. And of course, I was delighted as his mom. And you know, as I've observed this industry for the past couple of years, I've asked myself, okay, what separates the people who continue growing in multifamily from those who seem to hit a ceiling? Is it talent? Is it experience, personality, or is it something much simpler? And much more powerful. So today's conversation is all about one of my favorite topics growth mindset. But not in the motivational poster sense of the phrase. We're gonna talk about what growth mindset actually looks like in the real world of multifamily during, let's say, difficult resident conversations or after disappointing mystery shops while learning a new role, or when you're leading teams across multiple communities. So whether you're a leasing consultant trying to earn your first promotion, a maintenance technician looking to grow into leadership, a property manager building your team, or a regional leader developing future talent, this episode is packed with practical lessons you can start applying immediately. We'll talk about having the courage to admit what you don't know. And why feedback is one of the greatest accelerators of career growth, how to build leadership skills before you ever receive the title, and why the best leaders never stop being students. So if you've ever wondered how to keep growing, even when your career feels stuck, this conversation is for you. I'm so excited. My guest today is Jared Foreman, founder of Adapt Increase, a workforce capability and performance systems firm. That helps organizations develop their people by turning learning into consistent workplace performance. Over the past 15 years, Jared has built a career at the intersection of learning, leadership, onboarding, talent development, and performance support. He's led enterprise learning initiatives for more than 1,500 employees across 45 locations. He's created over 40 learning and development programs. He's led and distributed global teams, earned a master's degree in instructional technology. And is a certified professional in talent development. If that's not enough, what I appreciate most about Jared is that he doesn't approach learning as theory. He believes growth happens through observable behaviors, deliberate practice, and thoughtful feedback. And he teaches leaders who create environments where people feel safe enough to learn. His approach is practical, evidence-based, and deeply applicable to every level of multifamily. Jared, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast. Thank you for being here.
Jared FOrman: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for this conversation. I appreciate the kind introduction. And this too is one of my favorite topics, so I can't wait to dive in.
Rory Anderson: Yes, we're gonna have a great time. So Jared, tell me a little bit about what what problem you're trying to solve for companies and who's your ideal customer, just so that we have a good idea of who you work with.
Jared FOrman: Well, I think my ideal customer is anybody who is working with a workforce and they're starting to see performance issues and they see the KPIs, they see where these issues show up kind of after the fact, and they're really trying to understand what they can do to invest in their people and make sure that they understand the behaviors that need to be changed. So that they can get the results they're looking for. So that could take several different forms. As you mentioned, I've built very impactful onboarding programs to get talent up to speed as quickly as possible. Because as we know, in this fast-paced multifamily world, we don't have a lot of time and we need to get people performing at at their peak as quickly as we can. Whether that has to do with manager readiness and building out fast track programs so that those who are the best and most talented in your organization are able to stay with your organization and grow with your organization. Those are some of the areas that I focus on to help really be able to improve the performance of an organization that is oftentimes very geographically dispersed and have challenges because of it.
Rory Anderson: Well, we're excited to have you here. To our listeners, if you've ever wanted to become a better leader or build a stronger team or simply continue growing throughout your career, I think you're really gonna get a lot out of this conversation. I'm really excited to dive in with you, Jared. you know, we hear the phrase growth mindset all the time, but I think sometimes it can become a buzzword and and actually sometimes people don't even know where it comes from. Like some people have never even read this book, right? And I'm holding up the book mindset for those of you that can't see. How do you define growth mindset, especially in the context of multifamily?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, it's a great question. it's as you said before, it's a simple but powerful idea. And the the basis of Carol Dweck's mindset and how she set forth of it in the book is basically there's two sorts of mindsets. There's a static mindset in which somebody believes the talents and skills that they have are sort of there from birth and they are kind of static and they don't move. And then there's a growth mindset where people believe, no, I have these skills today, but I can grow and I can have better skills tomorrow. I can learn. I can get better in performance through my actions, through practice, through feedback. So when you think about multifamily, this really applies to every single level. It doesn't matter if you're starting out your first day as a porter. Or you're somebody who's a CFO and has had a long career in multifamily. The idea that you can do better today than you did yesterday and learn something new today that you didn't know yesterday is applicable to everybody across the board. So it's really approaching the way you walk in and the way you show up every single day with that intention that I'm gonna learn something new today, that I'm gonna get better at something today, and that's gonna impact my team and my company.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, one of my favorite things that I used to tell my former students was you and this this comes from mindset, but it's that I might not be able to to do something, but I can say I can't do it yet. And that word yet is the powerful, transformative word that helps change your brain from I can't do it to I'm going to be able to do it. I just have to put more effort into it, right?
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. you think about some of the studies and research that have been done that say it takes ten thousand hours to to get to a elite level of anything. You're talking about those of you out there or listening who are musicians or played instruments. you look at that amount of time, you have to be okay with the idea that you're not gonna be good for a while. I mean, it's why many parents don't buy their children drum sets, right? 'Cause they're gonna have to sit there and listen. to bad drumming for quite a while before that person before the child gets good. So i yeah, it's just part of the process.
Rory Anderson: It is, it is. I'm laughing because my college-age son, who doesn't live with us, actually just bought a drum set and is starting a band. And he is actually a very good musician, but he just asked us if he could keep his drum set at our house. And I was like, I don't know,
Jared FOrman: Ha ha ha.
Rory Anderson: I don't know how I feel about that, but it is. It's here sitting here at my house.
Jared FOrman: Love it.
Rory Anderson: so do you think growth mindset is something that people naturally have, or is it a skill that they can intentionally develop?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, it's a great question. I think with any skill or capability, there are people who may have natural inclinations towards it or openness towards any particular skill and talents is what we usually call them. for example, when I was younger, everybody told me all the adults in my life told me I was going to be a lawyer because all I did was go around and ask why and ask questions constantly.
Rory Anderson: Ha ha
Jared FOrman: but I I really don't think I'm very unique in that way. I think a lot of children have that thirst for knowledge that sometimes we kind of push away or push down for different
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: reasons as we become adults. So, you know, really the whole idea of growth mindset is that we aren't fixed and we can learn and we can grow. So growth mindset really doesn't come down to any special, you know. talent where you have to be able to run real fast or jump real high. It really comes down to simple behaviors that you can do and put into practice today, tomorrow, that are gonna help you grow that mindset and see the rewards of it.
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm. I I love that. I think that's very true. you know, earlier in your career, you entered affordable housing, knowing very little about that world. So tell me about that experience and what did you do? How did you navigate that? Maybe talk about that from a growth mindset standpoint. And talking about why why is admitting like I don't know. So difficult for so many professionals.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, honestly, I wouldn't have been able to grow in my career, do many of the things that I've been able to accomplish without having the willingness to kind of jump in the deep end of a pool. And maybe that started when my big brother threw me in the deep end of the pool when I was younger and said, figure it out, right? but in all honesty and looking back, I was I was recruited out of I was working with a hospitality company to come in and be the director of of training for an affordable housing company. And I jumped at it. I jumped at the opportunity. And I think in a lot of ways people could look at opportunities like that and come that come in their lives and be fearful and and really live in their fears of I don't want to look at an experience. I don't want to ask a question that makes me look stupid or be criticized. And so one of the things I want to say today is having a growth mindset is simple, but it's not easy. And the reason
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: it's not easy is because you have to get over that fear. You have to be courageous enough. And you have to Feel that your growth is more important and be more motivated by your curiosity than you are motivated by your fear of looking like you don't know something. So even stepping into that role where you know I didn't know much about the affordable housing world or really the multifamily world in general, I had to Think to myself, okay, I'm gonna be I have the capability of learning. And because of that, I can grow into this role. And and that is really a powerful mindset. And it's a powerful mindset because it allowed me to take on this new opportunity and really have a career in which I've, you know, been in or adjacent to multifamily for quite some time.
Rory Anderson: I love that. You know, it reminds me just my my experience in this world. And and I've been really transparent with our listeners about this podcast. This podcast started because I was like, I need to know more. I need to know more about this industry, and I need to be connected to people that know more than I do. And that was hard. That was hard for me because I w came from a place where I felt like I knew my job pretty well and I was and
Jared FOrman: Sure.
Rory Anderson: I was good at it and I felt confident in it to a place where I didn't know my job well and I had to learn and I had to learn from people that knew way more than I did and were way more well versed than I was in this industry. but because of that, I have learned so much in a short amount of time and I've met so many people who are have been very generous in in saying, yes, of course I'll I'll share with you my knowledge and my experience. And and I've been so grateful for that. So I completely agree with you. And I think sometimes it is hard to say, I don't know something. It is hard to say that, right? It's it's hard for us to admit that as adults, I think, because sometimes we have a perception of ourselves that we should know everything. But when we do that, it just opens doors of opportunity for us. And it often breaks down walls too. in in in relationships with others when you say, you know, I'm not really sure about that all but I'm willing to learn, I'm willing to find out that humility
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. You can look at it as I'm sorry, go ahead.
Rory Anderson: no, no, I was just gonna say that humility really helps create, I think, better synergies.
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. You have to look at it as an opportunity. I mean, every day's an opportunity, every conversation's an opportunity to to learn more. I mean, when I came into that organization, I knew right away I had to have the intention of learning and building relationships with key people that would help me along the way. So whether it was our compliance director who was an enormous help. and you know provided resources that I could that I could take and read and come back and ask questions about or it was you know particular courses that we had on our learning system so that I could you know get the foundation of fair housing and things along those lines. And it honestly might sound jaw dropping to some people listening. Like how could Somebody come into an industry that they don't know anything about and lead a learning and development department. Well, the foundation of what talent development training, whatever you want to call it, is, is really being able to learn concepts, break them down, understand how to turn those into learning opportunities, work with subject matter experts to ensure the content is accurate and
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: be able to disseminate that in in ways where people can practice and learn and and and track that change to behavior, which you know drives business results. So that's really the skill set. You look at your learning department, that's the skill set that they have. so the
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: best thing leaders around them can do is to you know just be open with them, keep them in the loop and share those resources.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I agree. Tell me about how you built relationships with subject matter experts when you were going into that environment. And what advice would you give someone who's brand new to multifamily and feels intimidated asking these questions?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I think you can start small. You can find two or three people in your sphere who you're comfortable with. You know, you build relationships like you do anywhere. You find you try to find common ground. Ask people about themselves. A lot of times we forget that people's favorite topic is usually about themselves, their children or their pets. So ask them about themselves and and you know, then you can start to find common ground and and share what is going on in your world and what questions you may have. so you have to take a little bit of stock into what do you know, what do you want to know, and who are the people and the resources that can can get you where you want to be. And there's usually so many resources out there. I mean, for example, I built For a client and e-learning course that was about the leasing consultant. And it was actually an interview with every other role at the property. And every other role of the property, whether it was the maintenance supervisor or the system manager or whomever it was, talked about how they relied on the work that the leasing consultant did and how they supported the work that the leasing consultant did. Think about the people around you not as separate from you, but as part of a working team. And by you know, making sure that you're interacting, building those relationships, you're gonna be, you're gonna function better as a team.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, and I like that because I was just thinking, you know, going into a new environment, it's important to learn what other people on the team do. Right. You might not become that the expert that they are, but you at least need to know what they do and how they do it and have some sort of familiarity with what they are doing in their position because that just makes your team stronger. If you know you can go to them for certain things that they're more expert in than you are, that's that's what a team is, right? That's that's great.
Jared FOrman: Hundred percent. And that's gonna happen at any level that you're at. It doesn't matter if you're a community manager, it doesn't matter if you're working in the accounting department or HR, wherever. The you're never gonna be the expert at everything. And so the smartest people and the smartest leaders I've ever seen try to hire and surround themselves with those who are smarter than them in certain areas.
Rory Anderson: Mm mm.
Jared FOrman: And By doing that again, it takes getting past that feeling of inadequacy or fear and and saying, No, I'm I'm doing this because this is gonna help us perform better and ultimately it's gonna make you a better leader.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I agree. What do you think leaders can do to create an environment where their teams actually feel safe in saying, you know what, I just I don't know yet.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, that's that's huge. I mean psychological safety is a big part of leadership. If you don't have psychological safety with the people that you work with, they're not they're gonna be guarded, they're not gonna share information with you that could really help you problem solve and move the team
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: ahead. So it really starts with you modeling it yourself. I believe At the Apple store, they have a phrase that they use when somebody asks a question and the associate doesn't know the answer. They say, Let's learn this together. Right? So I think that's something that leaders can can use, right? It's it's
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: I don't know just like you said, I don't know this today, but let's figure it out together. And now you've created cohesiveness, you've created a team, you you've created, you've put each other. as as equal team members who are working towards learning something. And then once you learn it, you can strategize how you're going to apply that information. So it's really important to model it. When somebody asks questions at a meeting, tell them, hey, that's that's a great question. I'm glad you asked that. And it's important that we are all on the same page and we all understand this because of whatever the the reason is. but you really have to start with yourself as a leader and model that
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I love that. One of the my favorite quotes from the book is no matter what your ability is, effort is what ignites that ability and turns it into accomplishment. And that effort often is just recognizing that you don't know something or you can't do something yet. And then you put in that effort to to figure it out, learn it. I love the the concept of let's learn it together. Yeah, those are all great, great things to to I think help your team understand. Hey, we're all in this together, and we're gonna become better together. So tell me about, let's kind of switch to feedback, because feedback is a big part of the concept of growth mindset. I want you to talk to me about your observation when people become quote-unquote defense attorneys when receiving feedback instead of maybe students. So talk to me about that. How do we overcome that?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, so I was I administered and managed secret shopper programs at multiple different companies. And it was amazing where even very entry level, not very experienced leasing consultants, when they got their first shop, they kind of transformed, we would laugh and say, you know, they transformed into a defense attorney, right? And they're Hundred percent of their focus was I didn't do that, that's inaccurate. Let me show you the evidence, let me show you the proof, getting into the the CRM and these were the notes that were taken. And it really defeated the purpose of of the entire experience, right? The entire experience is meant to be to give you feedback that you can look at yourself and say, Okay. Here's something that I can do to try to improve. Because I heard the term recently, you can't read the label when you're inside the box. Right. So you
Rory Anderson: That's good. That's really good. I haven't heard that one.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, so when you're inside the bottle you can't read the label. It takes somebody on the outside to be able to help us see ourselves sometimes because the way we intend to communicate or the way we intend to be isn't always the way it comes off to other people. And that's
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: n and and that doesn't mean you're you're wrong. It just means you need to be aware. Right.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: And and miscommunications happen all the time. So when I would run these secret shopper programs, I always tried to make them much more about the carrot, the development, right? Never never about the stick, as they would say, the old adage. So we would run what we called every month we would do rewarding Wednesdays and we would meet with the whole group and We would look at a particular aspect of the shop report and from a development standpoint, but there was a a rewarding aspect of that. We would reward not just top performers, but those who had the highest gains in performance. And I think that's a really important lesson for leaders when you're looking around these fun competitions and things along those lines. Because not everybody starts at the equal Starting line, right? Some people have been doing this for a while, while others it may be new. So I think it's really important to not just reward and recognize people who are at the top, but also those who are growing and progressing. And that plays right into our topic of the growth mindset. So when we're thinking about this type of feedback, it's really important to Take a step back and say, okay, even if this isn't 100% accurate, there's gotta be some kernel of truth in here. There's gotta be something in here that I can look at and say, you know, let me try this. Let me try to adjust the way I'm doing this and see what the results are.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, and I think the very definition of fixed mindset versus growth mindset is if you're in a fixed mindset, you automatically become defensive about the feedback. So if you're becoming defensive about feedback, that means you're in a fixed mindset about that thing. And you can be in a fixed mindset about something and in a and a growth mindset about something else in your life. That's something else I think that's important that the book points out. So If you ever see yourself becoming defensive about it, that means you have a fixed mindset in that and you think you cannot change. So that that's a good clue for you to tune into and say, maybe, maybe I need to take a step back and think about why I feel like I can't change and how do I turn my mindset around so that I can change.
Jared FOrman: And that's a great point because when you're in a fixed mindset, you sort of attribute your performance to almost who you are, right? And you're and so when somebody says, Hey, you could get better at this, it's almost a personal affront to
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: your essence. And so what are people gonna do? They're gonna dig in their heels and say no. I'm not this because they don't feel like it can change. So if you have some if you're somebody who comes with a growth mindset and you say, No, I can get better, then you just look at that for what it is, which is feedback that helps you progress.
Rory Anderson: Exactly. And think about it from a leadership standpoint. If I am somebody's supervisor and I go to them and say, Hey, Jody, I've noticed this lacking in the way you're talking to our customers or or to our residents. and I really need you to work on this and I think you can do it. And and Jody says, what are you talking about? Like I don't have a problem with that. Versus Jody says, Thank you so much for pointing that out. I I know I can do better at that. I know I I understand what you're saying and I want to be better. Like, how is my perception of Jody going to be? Right? It it's gonna be different depending on that response. So I think that's what's important for all of us to remember because all of us have somebody that we that we report to usually. So we have somebody that is gonna give us feedback and we have to be willing to take that feedback. And I'll be the first to say that I haven't always been good at taking that feedback. Sometimes I've been the one that's been like, wait a second, that's you know, are you sure? Are you sure that that that I need to work on that, right? And of course it is something I need to work on, right? So it is, it's really good for us to see that. You know, when you built your onboarding coach program, I know you intentionally invited feedback from like A maintenance technician and all the way to the executives. So, what did that experience teach you about collaborative leadership and feedback?
Jared FOrman: So I walked into a new organization and they knew that they were having issues with turnovers, specifically short term turnover. Once people sta were there for about a year, the long term turnover really wasn't as much of an issue, but it was the kind of short term turnover. So we decided that creating a a peer coaching onboarding program was was a good solution. And and just like you and your son with reading books, I I obviously went out, read books, listened to case studies, tried to understand, you know, where these programs fall short. So I had a really good basis of the overall direction. But at the end of the day, I didn't feel good just me sitting in my office and saying, I know what this huge program that's gonna impact everybody in the organization should just come out of my head. I mean, the the hubris of that would have been beyond, I think. So what I did is I created a committee of people, like you said, from frontline maintenance people to the executive level, and we met regularly and we discussed different aspects of the program. You know, where should This learning take place? How should it be structured and what tasks and topics should be done before others? And it was really, really important for me, especially for those who are on the front lines, to understand what the practical realities were of the day-to-day work and where me sitting in my office might have a misconception of what is necessarily doable or possible. or how the work is changed that I wasn't aware
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: of. without that, it really wouldn't have been anywhere close in my mind to as as successful as a program as it was, which actually went on to to win an award. And at the end of the day, I think another lesson for leaders in this way is that committee was spread out throughout the organization. And they were before we even rolled out the program, they were in the field singing its praises. Hey, this is gonna be so great. I mean, we're part of this, and you know,
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: what you can't you you're not gonna believe what's what they're gonna do, and this is gonna be so great. And so they became the promoters of of the program and they also felt, which they did, that they had ownership over that program. Because they helped develop it. and many of those who were in that committee went on to be coaches and active in the program. So I think for leaders who are looking to make those types of impact, it's really important to kind of cast a wide net, to get feedback from other people, because it's just gonna make everything stronger all across the board.
Rory Anderson: I love that so much. I actually worked on an LMS system for a company and helped develop it. And so I know exactly what you're talking about. And one of the things that I found was completely invaluable was was talking to the frontline people that were going to be using this training potentially, you know, for the next set of people coming into the roles and having their expertise and insight. I mean it w it just the training would not have been as good had we not done that. hands down, you have to have that feedback. And I love the galvanizing aspect of it where people are like promoting it and ex and they're excited about it. Right. When you bring those people from the front line in and you and you ask questions and you value their feedback, you're it's just gonna be a better program. I so I love that you I love that. I wanna I wanna switch Topics now. let's say the segment would be called Build Your Build Value Before You Build Your Resume, maybe. so if somebody listening wants to become a property manager or a regional manager or maybe even a VP someday, what what should they start doing now, even if they don't have that title yet?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I think that is a fantastic question. And it's a position that some of us who are listening today are in, and many of us who are listening have been in that position. I think ambition is great. I think you need to share that with your supervisor, like, hey, these are my goals and this is what I'd like to do. But I don't think what's helpful is to obsess on a particular title. or to obsess on looking around and saying, this is where my friends are, or this is where people who are at a similar tenure with the company are and I'm behind or in front. I I don't think that's helpful. And I think that's actually something that could end up wasting a lot of energy in a kind of a dead end that's not gonna get you where you want to be. I think from a growth mindset standpoint, You have to look at how can you add more value to your role, to your team, to your company every single day.
Rory Anderson: Yes.
Jared FOrman: And that's really what it comes down to because people who add value are people who grow. those are the people who get recognized. And then to take a step back, because I've seen at times where Associates feel like, I'm ready for that next level, but they really don't understand what that next level is. They
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: don't understand the day-to-day work. They don't understand the role. You know, probably most of your job descriptions for your organization are are publicly available, or you could certainly ask your HR department or your manager, hey. I want to be a community manager. I want to be an assistant manager. Can I see that job description? And then go through it, talk to people who are doing that role, and say, like, here's where I think I might have a gap. Be honest with yourself. You know, maybe you're going from leasing to an assistant manager, but you haven't really done renewals yet. Maybe you're want go from an assistant manager to a manager, but you don't know enough about. vendor relationships or financials. So
Rory Anderson: Yeah, you don't know how to budget. You don't know yeah.
Jared FOrman: Sure, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? Like nobody necessarily expects you to be at that level. But to get to that level, that's where you need to build a plan with your manager and say, hey, once a month, here's these areas, and I wanna can you sit with me or give me assignments and give me some stretch goals so I can start learning in these areas. I heard a really successful businessman once say. He won't promote somebody until that person has prepared somebody else to do their role.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: And think about it, Rory. If I'm a regional manager and I have an assistant manager opening, let's say I'm a regional manager and I have a community manager opening. And I have two assistant managers who have the same tenure, they have the same capabilities, but one of those assistant managers has worked with and prepared their leasing consultant to step into their role, where the other one has not, who are you going to?
Rory Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. It's true.
Jared FOrman: So we have to really think about being intentional about understanding what those roles are and you know working with our team and the resources we have to grow, but then also re taking a hand down and helping those who want to step into where we are to grow. Because I'll tell you what, in any industry at any level, the more you move up, the more you have to get work done through other people.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: So the ability to teach, to guide, to coach is invaluable as you move along in your career. So the earlier you can start building that muscle memory, the further you're gonna be.
Rory Anderson: I totally agree. And I I think if somebody wants to grow, but maybe their company doesn't have an immediate position available, in order to keep progressing, what they can do is exactly what you just talked about. Learn about the role you want to be in and find out what that person does in their job every day and find out what your gaps are, then go and fill those gaps. Because at some point that opportunity will be open to you. But but if it becomes open to you and you don't have those gaps filled, You're not going to be ready to take that job and you will not be the ideal candidate. That's just there's going to be somebody that has all the things that you maybe don't have because they've been working on it and you have it. So you can't just expect to have that opportunity open to you if you haven't done the work and the growing to get yourself to that point.
Jared FOrman: Absolutely. And if you're a community manager out there, ask yourself this question. If you had to be away from your property without any notice for a week, how confident are you that that property is going to move along without skipping a beat? How many calls,
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: text, emails do you think you're going to have to take from your assistant manager who doesn't really know? what they need to know to be successful. Now certainly if that person just started over the started the role, that's gonna be the case. But if this person's been with you for a while and you're thinking yourself, no, if I was away for a week, I'd be bombarded with communication coming my way. That's a telltale sign to you that you should be spending some time working with that person and helping them grow.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, absolutely. How do you think staying curious after you become the expert plays into growth mindset?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I think that's that's really, really important. I had a regional manager tell me once that when I came on site, he felt like I came to support them rather than as a sort of gotcha or to come down and say, Hey, you guys are doing this stuff wrong and I I really that was one of the better compliments I ever got. in the industry. And I think the reason is you have to go in, especially when you go in on site as somebody who's a regional or corporate, I would always say go in with curiosity and not conclusions.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: It's easy from afar to look at the financials, to look at reports and say, I know exactly what the issue is, but every situation is different. Properties are so different, there's so many moving parts. what I would suggest is go in and say, Hey, what am I missing? I'm noticing this. Tell me what you guys are experiencing, tell me what you know roadblocks you're you're running into, and then let's work together as a team. and that's where you afterwards can bring in your expertise to help solve the problem. And you're gonna foster a team environment where people are gonna feel comfortable with you, you're gonna build those relationships, and the next time something goes wrong, which Rory it always does in multifamily,
Rory Anderson: Yeah.
Jared FOrman: that person's gonna reach out to you and say, Hey, we're having this issue, can you help? And it's just gonna minimize those issues and get them solved much more quickly. And if you come in with that, I already have a conclusion, I'm already gonna tell you what you need to do, it you're not gonna have that same result.
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm. When you I mean, I know you kind of talked about this a little bit, but what's something that you learned from your experience with working with maintenance technicians or leasing professionals that completely changed your perspective in your role?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, there's a couple of stories. we wanted to really recognize our maintenance people in one of the companies that I worked with and so we created maintenance appreciation month. We had all sorts of fun contests and I dressed up as a talk show host and we did trivia and it was a great time. But one of the things that I thought was best was called Porter for the Day. So we had all of our corporate folks pick a property and they went and worked as a porter alongside that porter for four days. So one year I had pressure washed dumpsters, one year I did trash outs and yes they gave me the top floor walk-up, probably worst trash outs that were available. But hey, getting in the trenches with people, I'm not gonna sit here and say I'm an expert on maintenance because of it. But it again, it builds that camaraderie where people look at their leaders and say, Hey, they're they're willing to jump in here in the trenches. They don't they're not looking and saying I am better than this person or anything like that because my position or title. And so some of the best conversations we had were during lunch and where they would talk about, you know, issues and share what's going well and be very proud of their accomplishments. And so I think I think that's important. It's it's important to really keep that communication going. One other example, because you also mentioned leasing consultants that comes to my mind is I was working with a client who's a multifamily company and helped put together a training on phone etiquette and phone conversations because as happens they're looking at a report that says people aren't picking up the phone. Okay, so we kind of are like, okay, well let's give them confidence and skills around picking up the phone. Great training, interactive role playing, lots of good sharing. but what came out of that for the trainer who was doing that was that the hesitancy for picking up the phone was not because they weren't confident in talking to prospects. It was because when residents who were upset would call in, the leasing consultants would be tasked with having to handle those issues.
Rory Anderson: Mm.
Jared FOrman: So the least tenured person who probably has the least capability to solve the problem was being
Rory Anderson: Right.
Jared FOrman: tasked with dealing with these upset residents. So at the end of the day, you've got to get closer to the work and build those relationships or you're really not going to know what the core issues are to be able to fix it. And you could end up running down rabbit holes and wasting a lot of time and energy when it could have been as simple as changing a policy and a procedure of how things work.
Rory Anderson: my gosh, such good insight. I love that. So I know we gotta kind of wrap this up. I wanna I wanna ask you if someone listening wants to leave this episode and start developing a stronger growth mindset this week, what's one action they can take just in the next twenty four hours? What would you say?
Jared FOrman: First, it would start with looking at yourself and saying, is there any part of my work that I think I can do better at that I'm struggling with? It could be resident conversations, it could be some part of your tour, it could be anything that has to do with you know communication with your peers or learn learning a system, whatever it is. We are all struggling typically with something in our role, and then say, Who's a trusted person that I can ask to get feedback on what what that is and how I'm performing in that area? And who can help me or what resources are there to help me learn in that area? So you can start small. You don't have to start and say, Hey, I'm gonna come in tomorrow and I'm gonna learn a whole CRM in one day, right? that's probably not what's what's gonna happen, but people underestimate what they can do long term and they overestimate what they can do short term. So small incremental improvements every day, once you look back a year, three years, five years, it's incredible the progress that you would have made. But it just starts with that intention of being curious and saying, I'm gonna look at myself and see what I can do better.
Rory Anderson: Yeah, I love that. I love that. I would say for me, if you have not read this book, Mindset, go read it. And you know, this is just a n this is a free advertisement for mindset. just
Jared FOrman: Yeah.
Rory Anderson: because I love that book so much. But if you haven't read it, read it. It's it's easy reading. She she's a psychologist f Stanford, but she writes it for the layperson like us who, you know, doesn't understand psychology at that level, but she it's amazing.
Jared FOrman: Great book
Rory Anderson: imagine somebody who starts their first day of multifamily today, fast forward ten years, right? What's the difference between the person who becomes an exceptional leader and the person who just stays exactly where they are? They're they're kind of stagnant. What choices along the way separate those two careers in your mind?
Jared FOrman: It's it's incredible. Rory, both you and I were were teachers and it's interesting because you would look at other teachers and say, Hey, this person has twenty years experience and this other teacher has twenty years of one year of experience. And what it what I
Rory Anderson: Ha yes.
Jared FOrman: what I mean by that is they never changed. They did everything.
Rory Anderson: Yes.
Jared FOrman: It doesn't matter if you were in their class in 2006 or 2026, you're getting the same activities, the same everything. So the amount of growth that can happen from what I mentioned, just day by day, doing a little bit, learning a little bit more and a little bit, getting a little bit better at what you're doing, is really a huge stark difference. Because being in experience is just a skill or capability gap. And with
Rory Anderson: Mm-hmm.
Jared FOrman: a growth mindset, it's temporary, right? So if that's temporary, every day that person gets better. Imagine they're climbing a mountain one step a day while the other person is frozen in place. it's it's gonna be an amazing difference over the years of a career. And I would say this with no matter where you are in your career, maybe you're even a regional manager or a corporate person and you're thinking, Hey, I'm in my mid 40s. How much more can I learn and grow? Well, if you're in your mid 40s, you probably have 20 to 25 years left of your career. And you may think, hey, I'm super experienced, and you are, and you've learned so much. But do you want to be in the same place in 20 to 25 years and have the same knowledge and same capabilities? Most people I think would say no. And so it doesn't matter where you are in your career. career, you can always take that next step.
Rory Anderson: Hmm, I love that. If there's one thing that I hope our listeners take away from today's conversation, it's that your career growth doesn't begin with your next title. It be begins with your next choice. And it's that choice to ask questions, even when you're afraid you should already know the answer. It's the choice to hear feedback, right? Without immediately defending yourself. It's the choice to volunteer for the opportunity before there's a promotion attached to it. And I think we've talked about this too, the choice to stay curious, even though even when you've become the person that everyone else considers the expert. I love Jared your reminder that growth isn't this linear event. It certainly isn't about being perfect. It's about becoming just a little bit more capable, right? Than we than you were yesterday. So challenge to all of our listeners this week. Find one area where you've gotten comfortable. And I want you to get curious again. Ask a better question. Seek out some uncomfortable feedback, maybe. Learn from somebody on the front lines. Volunteer for something that stretches you. Because as you know, as Carol Dweck puts it in mindset, becoming is better than being. Jared, I just I can't thank you enough for sharing your experience and your stories and your perspective with us today. It's been so fun to have you on the show.
Jared FOrman: been absolutely my pr pleasure. I love the topic, love the conversation. I I hope the listeners get a lot out of it.
Rory Anderson: so good. I love this this topic. I told Jared at the beginning, like, this is gonna be my one of my favorite episodes, I think, because I just am so passionate about growth mindset and how much it changes our lives. we have we usually do an unpaid advertisement, Jared. So I don't know if you have something that you want to share, but I always love to ask, what's one thing that you can't live without or one brand you just love? Tell me something about you that you love.
Jared FOrman: Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna cheat a little bit. I think the most important things in life and and to me are are spending t quality time with friends and family. So that's really the one thing I can't live without. One of the ways I do that is I'm I'm a golfer and not necessarily a great golfer, but so I the reason I I do that is I enjoy really spending time outside and I s enjoy having uninterrupted time with my friends where we can really kinda get away and and connect. So if I were to pick one item, it would probably be my my Cleveland sand wedge because my driver's giving me problems right right now. But the sand
Rory Anderson: Ha
Jared FOrman: wedge from a hundred yards and in is is a lifesaver.
Rory Anderson: I love it. I love it. Commercial for golf and Cleveland sand wedges. Okay.
Jared FOrman: Yeah.
Rory Anderson: Good. That's good coming from someone from Florida, right?
Jared FOrman: Absolutely.
Rory Anderson: I love it. Well, thank you so much for being on the show, Jared. for those of you listeners out there, just a note, we now are able to be viewed on Apple Podcasts. You can see the full video footage and episodes. there which is really fun for us to have that feature now. And So Jared, if there is a way that if people want to get in touch with you, what's the best way to contact you?
Jared FOrman: Yeah, sure. you thank you for asking. You can find me at adaptingcrease dot com or you can reach out to me personally at Jared at adaptincrease dot com, send me a a message and I'd love to talk and see what we can do to bring growth mindset and better performance to your organization.
Rory Anderson: And we'll put that in the show notes as well so that you can find Jared's information. Until next time, keep building great teams, keep leveling yourself up, and go be a light and a blessing to someone else.
