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Hello and welcome to the Practice Marketing Podcast, highlighting successful strategies from North America's fastest growing clinics and experts so you can learn from their wins and power your practice growth.
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Hi, I'm your host, Neil Trickett, CEO of Practice Promotion.
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And today we're talking with Dr.
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Alex Bandoreski, head of clinical innovation at WebPT.
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And Dr.
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Bandoreski brings more than 23 years of experience across clinical practice, rehabilitation operations, digital health, product strategy, and healthcare technology.
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And so throughout his career, Alex has focused on bringing technology into clinical practice in ways that solve real problems for clinicians and patients.
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And now Alex has joined WebPT as the head of clinical innovation, where he'll help drive product innovation by connecting the needs of the market, clinical workflows, and modern digital technology to build better solutions for rehab therapy providers like you.
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So today we're excited to talk with Alex and get into these key questions about where physical therapy is now and are we still operating like it did 30 years ago.
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So Alex, welcome to the podcast.
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Yo, thank you.
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It is a pleasure to be here and uh thank you for your time.
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And it's really an exciting time to be a physical therapist and really exciting time to be in a health tech.
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It is.
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It's a rapidly changing, evolving world.
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I think we're all trying to figure it out as we go along and play with the big players out there, right, in the digital space.
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We've got uh anthropic, we've got all kinds, you know, Google, we've got uh all kinds of technologies going on in the clinic.
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We've got all kinds of technologies from care, uh services and products and things that we can use within the clinic.
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Our patients are getting used to using so much more technology.
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Um let's start with the big question here is is why do you think physical therapy overall tends to be operating in many ways like it did 30 years ago?
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Isn't it a wonderful question, Neil?
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And it is a question that I've been trying to answer for a long time.
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Uh I I think there's a lot of different uh points that drive clinicians to be leggards uh in amount of technology adoption.
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And and one of it is uh a uh essentially a heuristic of default mode of operation.
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We we as a clinical community uh have always been the art and the science, right?
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And I think that the science of healthcare, the science of physical therapy, has evolved exponentially.
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We are so much more advanced now than we were even 10 years ago.
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The research has really kept up validating our interventions, validating our points of care.
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But we are still that art of clinical care, the philosophical dogma of default mode of operation, the insistence of being the only in-person provider, the insistence on being manually driven uh it rather than seeing our point of expertise has caused us to be lagged.
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So you I think this question is spot on because I've always driven a thought experiment that if you have a time machine and you blind a patient and you transport them 30 years back in time and put him in a PT clinic, would they know the difference?
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Would they actually tell the difference where they are now versus like in 1996?
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Uh so I think it it's it's a matter of uh being someone who is aware, but not really seeing how these tools fit into our clinical operational workflow.
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So it really is up to us, it's up to you, it's up to me to both educate our community but also expose our community to some of the novelties that are readily entering the market, as you just referenced.
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Yeah.
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It's such a great point because you you're so right in that, hey, we're we're hands-on, right?
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We're the nothing like that's not going to really change until there's robots that do exactly what we do, right?
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Which is gonna be way into the future.
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But if you think about it, um, you know, you a lot of what we do is hands-on care with patients, right?
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And and manually moving the body.
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Uh so like that isn't changing much and probably won't change much into the future, but there's a lot more now that's being incorporated from a technology standpoint in the delivery of care.
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But I think where we we do see, you know, uh clinics also the there's clinics that are you know kind of kind of operating on that model of 30 years ago where things are very easy in in the clinic.
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Uh, maybe they're still using paper charts, who knows, right?
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Uh there's still that out that that's out there.
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And then there's other clinics that are very innovative, they're incorporating AI.
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And I think the the key thing to look at is it what are you leveraging technology for?
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And to me, it has to really be about delivering the patient experience.
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And and that comes from how the patient comes in, how it easy it is to work within your systems, and then your team has to work with the technologies and the operations for the benefit of the patient, right?
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To make make it a better experience for them, whether that's the documentation that helps the they get the insurance to pay you, um, or that patient can take that away to their doctor or the communication with their doctors.
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Uh, so that there's a I think a lot that can be done from a technology standpoint to make the patient overall experience overall better.
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Yeah.
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I think it's like a point of convergent evolution where if you look into uh how technology impacts uh and uh our daily lives, uh think about every point of our lives that has been changed over the last 10 to 15 years.
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Uh and how in a clinical setting we we are much more selective where we choose to embrace technology and where we choose to actually postpone technological innovation.
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So on the revenue side, on a business side, we've actually done fairly well as a community.
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We we we know that there's a need for this digitization because you don't want to still be mailing uh EOBs manually.
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You don't want a uh messenger pigeon to carry your financial resources.
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But on a clinical delivery side, uh I think that is where the real opportunity is.
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Uh uh and also on a connected side, I I think we we see technology uh as something that can answer some questions.
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The reality is you you you you drove your car, that's really even if it's not a smart car, it's a smart car, to your smart office, used your smart device to contact your smart uh friends uh and pretty much schedule your entire week.
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And right now we're we're speaking on a smart device so that you and I can transfer 2,000 miles of space in a matter of microseconds.
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The same logic needs to apply to every point of clinical care, and that is what effectively we're trying to build in terms of healthcare innovation and technology where interconnectedness and not that segregation where I'm okay with technology helping one side, but not the other side.
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So absolutely.
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Yeah.
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And and have you seen ways that our industry is kind of being held back from evolving faster?
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I know, like, you know, if if uh if I want to go to a restaurant, I can just go on either their website or Google, I can go ahead and and book a table, right?
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And so that's what that's what people are used to out there.
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They're used to like, hey, I can just do everything online real quick.
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I don't necessarily have to talk to a person.
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Uh so I'm I'm just kind of curious from your end, what are some of the things that are overall holding us back in the PT industry?
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I think it's it's it's a curse of knowledge, uh, and it's uh a lack of uh desire.
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Like it's it's an incentive mismatch.
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So the curse of knowledge is that the default mode is always going to be the optimal mode for us to revert to because we're comfortable in it.
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We're comfortable in this manual analog way, method of delivering care.
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Uh and uh the mismatch in incentives is uh unlike other healthcare disciplines, which have been financially incentivized to modernize and to digitize.
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Physical therapy has not.
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We we we get paid the same uh fee schedule, we we build the same CPT codes uh and we get reimbursed the same numbers.
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Whether your clinic still operates uh uh on a 1996 model of care, or if you're operating on a 2026 model of care.
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And that's created this large uh chisholm where you do, as you referenced, Neil, you have clinics that are excellent.
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They're modern, they're they're innovative, they they are on top of this tax stack.
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And then you have clinics that that still manually call their patients to verify their insurance or call manually to schedule their patients.
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Uh because there is no direct financial incentive, except there is an immense financial incentive because these are the externalities.
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You may not get paid more from your payer, but you'll be able to see more patients.
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You'll be more efficient with your billing, you'll be more efficient with your schedule, you'll actually get more patients to come in.
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Uh, and that's where technology can help you be.
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It optimizes efficiency and optimizes your understanding of your environment.
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Absolutely.
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And so are there any examples of things that you've seen as in clinics that are outdated processes or workflows that you've seen that seem to be outdated that that if modernized would would make the clinic run much better?
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I I think so.
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Like right now, you have seen there's a lot of chatter in a musculoskeletal space about practicing on top of your license, right?
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Like the type of license care, type of top of scope care.
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Uh, but we're not defining it.
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We're very good about embracing these new philosophies, but not well defined.
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The opportunity in top-of-scope care is to establish a true team model of healthcare delivery.
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In essence, being able to provide the top-of-scope deliverables in a healthcare setting based on what you are primed to do.
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So a physical therapist can provide top-of-scope physical therapy, method of delivery of care.
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Physical therapy assistants play a much larger role in a clinic.
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Physical therapy assistants take responsibility of the also delivery of care.
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Uh, athletic trainers step up and actually serve the role of extensive facilitators and extenders of rehabilitation.
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So we need to establish a team-based approach to clinical care, which again, I see some practices embracing, but we need to embrace it on a larger level because that is optimization, that is efficiency, that is where rest of healthcare is taken.
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That that's where dentistry is, that's where traditional medicine is.
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Uh we we essentially just need to move up and use technology to help us deliver this product.
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Yeah, we've seen you know big advances in in technology here in almost every other industry.
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And so just kind of curious why why has it that we're seeing more innovation in healthcare, but I still feel like healthcare is more difficult to modernize, and especially then we get down to like physical therapy as part of healthcare, which seems even harder to modernize.
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And I'm kind of curious what you've seen is where are we kind of limited there?
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Yeah, I think we we need to create a generation of clinicians that are clinician innovators.
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Uh we we have created a generation of clinicians that are clinician entrepreneurs.
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We've also done a good job creating a generation of clinicians that are clinician scientists.
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So we have clinicians that uh are licensed and board certified and fellowship trained.
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We have clinicians that, through their entrepreneurial equity, been able to expand their scope, they've been able to expand.
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We now need a generation of clinicians that are essentially tinkers.
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They need to take this technology and play with it and develop it and consult and advise and facilitate.
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One of the exciting parts in my current position is what when a product is being built with clinician oversight, with clinician guidance.
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This product then is not just built for clinicians, but is built by clinicians, which increases its operability.
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Uh so we need more clinicians to step up to these roles for this healthcare technology to in order to make this technology fit clinical operational workflow, which and I hope to get there.
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Yeah, that's really cool that you're incorporating uh real-world right applications of research and technology and what you do there, you know, at WebPT.
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And I'm kind of I'm kind of curious, like, okay, so we've got this next generation of clinicians now.
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We want them to tinker more.
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And there's this intersection of all the knowledge of clinical care, right?
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And then we've got this burdening technology and tech stack that you have to operate with and get get good at.
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And so, what have you found that clinicians are actually wanting from technology that they're not necessarily getting today?
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Well, setting technicians use technology to extend their ability to be clinicians.
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Um which which not to say that technology can extend it away, but uh you it we will organize in a clinical effectivity.
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We like computers uh and we need computers.
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So you your organic uh database is only optimized by a synthetic database.
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And that's that's what technology is.
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So a a every part of clinical operation can only be enhanced when you add a parallel technology lane to assist your out to reduce your effort and to assist your output, which which is what where we are.
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You need every point of operation to be effortlessly integrated without uh generating a lot of friction.
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And now back to the show.
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Yeah, absolutely.
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And I I would just, you know, add to that that in today's environment we hear you know so much about overwhelm, burnout.
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Obviously, there's so much more demands from the need for paperwork, right?
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And um all these other administrative burdens, right, that are on the clinician.
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Where, heck, we just want to treat patients, we want to get them better, right?
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That's what we love to do, that's what we went to school for.
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You know, we don't want to jump through a gazillion hoops to get authorizations and you know, I can only see the patient for two visits and then I've got to write another report up to send back, you know.
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So, like I'm always approaching it from how can we make the job of a PT easier?
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Right.
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And so I just love the things that are happening now where I know you guys have like AI scribes and this kind of stuff where you can just be treating a patient and you're just talking to the patient like you normally would and doing your examinations and you're taking measurements and you can just be talking to the computer and it's recording and you keep that patient experience going because you're not having to go off and type something in, right?
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And I I've certainly had lots of frustrations if I've been to the doctor and they're not paying any attention to me, they're just going ahead and typing on their computer and entering the stuff in their chart and their notes, and they're clicking boxes, and that's not like, okay, well, I'm here to you, right?
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So I think the the more we can facilitate the PTs being able to do patient care primarily and the administrative stuff become much easier for them, then we're gonna have better retention, we're gonna have better job satisfaction, and that's what we need to keep the therapists that we have now and encourage new ones to come into the profession.
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And uh I, you know, what what are some of the things that you're looking at and WebPT is looking at to facilitate that patient experience and make things easier from the delivery of care standpoint?
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Yeah, I think this this is the truly the exciting part where I think if you look into the technological growth chart and you look into the human growth chart, humans grow have a linear growth trajectory.
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Technology has an exponential growth trajectory.
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Uh and so technology of 2026 is exponentially greater than technology of 2025, which on its own was exponentially greater than technology of 2024.
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So this process of human evolution where we are getting a little better every time, better clinicians, better outcomes, better delivery of care.
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Technology that is available today is leaps and bounds superior to technology from even six months ago.
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And so working with this technology presently and developing systems within this technology that helps clinicians and also building technology that is self-refining, self-learning, uh is the luxury that I we have right now working with WebPT, but even beyond, uh, I think if if you want your audience to have a good read, uh there's a gentleman whose name is David Epstein.
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I think he's a sports illustrated uh journalist, and he has a book called Inside the Box, which is uh a recent read about how constraints, actually current constraints, create an opportunity for growth.
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Uh and and what you see with technology, even when you're mentioning something like a scribe, a a typical scribe uh is a one-directional uh ambient sound reception tool.
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It it captures sound and then it puts it in the right place.
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And it's great because this is where technology was in the last couple of years.
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We were able to capture sound.
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But that's like if you if you follow a system of what, now what, so what, capturing sound is the what.
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Like that's great.
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Now what?
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What do you do with the sound?
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How does the sound help you operate better clinical product and process?
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And so what?
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How does this uh better sound reception help drive better clinical outcomes?
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How does it help drive better clinical experience, better out commercial output?
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Uh so that the so what is is really important, and that is only made available to us when you are able to build on modern tech stack because it just wasn't there before.
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So what I see happening and what what I see moving is that again to reference the prior point where if we have clinicians that in a clinic are willing to take on this technology, explore it, and ask the right questions, they're the ones that are gonna drive innovation and novelty.
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They're the ones that are gonna actually help modernize our workforce.
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So fantastic.
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And so it's it's hard to predict this because I think, like you said, where we are today was not where we were six months ago, right?
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It's it's like it it the the pace of technology expansion is incredible, right?
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And sometimes it's like really difficult to keep up with it.
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Um so I'm kind of curious, where do you see that PT clinics will be technology-wise, you know, in the next year, three years, five years?
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What what do you kind of what are you guys envisioning there at WebPT?
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Like where you where are you guys thinking for the future of clinics?
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So we we see we we are robust and we are hugely positive on a growth trajectory for physical therapy as a system, as a discipline.
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We we don't just see physical therapy thriving in the next five to ten years, but we see physical therapy moving into the forefront of leadership in United States healthcare.
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Uh and and we are building systems to drive this change, to drive this uh progress.
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Uh so we think that, well, I think, I'll I'll take this more personally, I think physical therapy as a discipline uh has been working for a couple of decades to create a new self-identity.
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And now we're able to come out and actually show what we can.
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Uh and so if we're gonna take on more responsibility, if we're gonna take on more challenging patients, if we're gonna take on uh patients with more homorbidities, uh, and if we're gonna take on risk, a smart system design needs to be able to handle this risk, needs to be able to handle this data, needs to be able to operationalize this data.
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And so we are both optimistic about where physical therapy community is going, but we're equally as optimistic about where our technology is gonna be able to support this community for decades and beyond.
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And and I see so many clinics now.
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We help we help a lot of clinics do this too, and that is I'm I'm a huge believer now in the hybrid model of care for clinics, and we can no longer just be insurance-based clinics.
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And the future is what the patients want.
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And we've we're coming into a you know a$3 trillion healthcare industry and wellness industry, and we can be totally at the pinnacle of this industry if we so want it.
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And we're seeing a lot of clinics take advantage of that, uh, whether they're bringing in sports performance type programs, they're bringing in laser therapy, they're bringing in uh diagnostic kind of uh EMG and all kinds of different um technologies there, um, you know, uh going for cash-based women's health.
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There's a lot of things that we can offer under an insurance model, but how can we supplement that with what people really want and demand?
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:58.160
And I I I I believe that what you're talking about here, which is where we're going with technology is to make that patient experience better, but also decrease the the burdens on delivering that care from an administrative and the that allows us to create a richer experience, which people will want to pay for ultimately.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:58.640
Right.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.759
And um So I I I love what you guys are doing there.
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:12.799
I think being so innovative, how can we make it easier on the front desk, in billing, in uh the patient experience with clinician care, uh it's gonna be huge, right?
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.119
Yeah.
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.799
And so many times, right?
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:21.200
In in in a typical physical therapy clinic, you you you you no longer have a luxury of being a one-point solution.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.839
Like so you you're you're taking on multiple roles.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:34.160
If you're a front desk coordinator, you're not just a front desk coordinator, you're also a scheduler, you're also a lot of times a secondary biller, you're also a secondary assistant in in a clinical triage.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:42.319
Uh so how do you build a system that that essentially doesn't just live horizontally, which is the passive system?
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.839
So the systems of yesteryear are horizontal, passive system, cause and effect, yes or no, if and that.
00:22:48.079 --> 00:23:03.680
Uh how do you build a system that both is horizontal but also vertical, that is able to transcend the roles and will help each domain specific knowledge transcend its role to allow everyone to fulfill and to contribute at the highest level?
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:05.119
That is the question.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.720
So you're absolutely right, Neil.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.039
The physical therapists have not fully actualized the value we bring to the system.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.599
The number one, number three, and number five cost to US healthcare systems uh is musculoskeletal expense.
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:24.240
So we musculoskeletal problems are driving this three trillion dollar healthcare industry.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.599
We are the solution.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:33.279
Physical therapy as a primary point of contact for these expensive problems uh is the way to keep the cost down.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.079
But how do you know you are driving costs down?
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:45.920
Well, you need a system that can capture data, but then it can not just passively capture that, make this data fulfill your projection, fulfill your output.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:51.440
That's that is the system that is is gonna be coming to uh reality.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.200
So that's really cool.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:55.279
And time, right?
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:04.720
We we we're a time-based service, and so everything really revolves around the time and efficiencies of time uh in a clinic.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:20.319
And so I'm curious uh from what's been developed or what you're developing now for the future, is how what are some of the what are some of the big big areas of time saving that you you've been that WebPT's been able to do for clinics?
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:26.400
Uh whether that's uh have we been able to speed up the having to wait for authorizations, right?
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:27.920
Or putting in notes.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:34.720
I'm kind of curious what what are some of the big time-saving um technologies that you guys have developed?
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.640
Wonderful question.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:47.440
And in in in the my ethnic uh tradition of answering a question with a question, uh I'm gonna ask you, do you think time should be one of the primary constraints of physical therapy deliveries?
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.279
Should we continue to rely only on time in terms of value production?
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:52.240
I don't.
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.440
No, because what does the patient want?
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:00.079
Uh if they can get in and out with the same result in 30 minutes, that's what they want, right?
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.839
They don't necessarily have to be there for an hour.
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.279
A lot of times they do, right?
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:14.480
You need to kind of take them through a process and they need to do enough strengthening and you know, uh all kinds of different balance activities or whatever they need to be doing to get fully rehabilitated.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.160
Sometimes they have to be there an hour and a half, depending on their morbidities and stuff, right?
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.079
But some people just need to get in and out in half an hour.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:29.680
So yeah, I agree that that being just a time-based was was kind of a lock-in from the insurance industry and kind of how how they were going to pay for what we do.
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:41.039
So I totally agree that um payment-wise, if we can show uh the value of an outcome versus the value of the time that we spend with people, I totally agree with that.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:55.599
I'm curious as far as uh saving uh administrative time because that's where the uh the bog down, the inefficiencies come when you have to have a front desk person waiting on hold for two hours to get an authorization from somewhere, right?
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.359
Or uh you know, to follow up on a billing issue, right?
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:04.240
Or uh your therapist is there having to put two hours worth of notes in the computer.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:09.680
Like I'm curious where you've seen massive time savings from implementing technologies in the clinic.
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.440
So I think that's wonderful.
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.960
And I think that's what you're referencing here is passive time or low value time.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.720
Like it's it's cost over outcome.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.960
So the value is cost over outcome.
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:23.759
So what does it cost for you to spend three hours of your evening time documenting notes?
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.279
And does it enhance your outcome?
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.680
Like, does it have any impact on the deliverables?
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:33.920
Or is it are you just fulfilling your responsibility, your peer responsibility?
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.119
Uh so this this effort is the key.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.200
Uh are you able to reduce the burden and the effort that it takes for you to complete a task?
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.480
Does technology help facilitate reduction in the effort?
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.240
Does it help you conserve energy?
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:51.839
Uh energy in care delivery, energy in documentation, energy in billing, energy in accounts receivable.
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:53.359
All of it requires energy.
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:58.799
And since energy is neither created nor destroyed, uh, we have a limited amount of energy.
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:04.880
So as a provider, do you want to expend all this energy on these low-value passive tasks?
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:09.440
Or do you actually want to expend energy on a higher value tasks?
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:14.160
As a biller, do you want to expend all your energy on chasing uh denials?
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:18.559
Or do you want to spend your energy on proactively anticipating new patients coming in?
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:25.200
As a friend desk coordinator, do you want to spend energy chasing all the phone calls and the messages that were left over the weekend?
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:37.359
Or do you want to spend your energy actually optimizing schedules so that there's a better match between a provider and a patient, and you're creating this ideal optimized alignment between a provider's strengths and patients' desires.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:38.799
So that that that is the key.
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:53.839
Effort and energy is what technology solves, or that's what we solve because we have now a system, we have the technology and we have the architecture to build something that optimizes energy and reduces efforts in completing your task.
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:54.960
That's cool.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:04.720
And so if if if you're a scaling practice out there and let's face it, running a business is always different fires going on everywhere.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:14.720
Uh, but where from a from an efficiency, from a technology standpoint, what would be some of the greatest areas for them to focus on first?
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.000
Is it is it uh actions across the front desk?
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.480
Is it is it billing and authorizations?
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.720
Is it the delivery of care documentation?
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:31.039
Like what where are some of the critical areas that you think a practice owner out there would want to put their attention on first for technology implementation?
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:33.359
I I think this is great.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:41.359
I think the number one thing is I want practice owners, I want physical therapists or administrators to actually start asking better questions.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:46.960
Uh I think we we are looking at technology from the wrong set of optics and asking the wrong questions.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:51.359
Because the questions we ask don't help us better understand how this technology helps us.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.400
We're asking questions about uh features.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:58.000
Uh, we're not asking questions how these features fit our solutions.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:08.240
Uh so ask questions, not whether uh that this new product that you're assessing for your clinical workflow uh is uh has a scribe.
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.960
Ask methods the scribe was actually trained.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:18.640
Ask efforts, uh ask for that that amount of build and amount of energy and resources that it took to build this.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.160
That does it help your workflow.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:26.160
There's also a a way to optimize uh what you have available to what you actually need.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:36.079
Uh and the key is to create a lowest threshold of adoption so that practice owners understand is this something I need or is this just something I want?
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:39.759
Uh and and needs and wants are are not dichotomized.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.599
Like it they're parallel.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.680
So you have needs, which which is really what we are.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:47.279
We're helping people's needs.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.359
And then there's wants, which we will we have all the wants.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.799
But then the wants are nice to have, and needs are must-haves.
00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:04.480
Uh and so technology that's built for needs that also answers the wants, it creates this Goldilocks point where you have best of both worlds.
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:09.279
But but first point, I think, Neil, is educate yourself to ask better questions.
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.519
Understand what it is that you actually are looking for.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.400
And and is this question a need-based question or a want-based question?
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:17.680
I love that.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:22.960
So focus on what's the uh what's the what's the problem you're trying to solve, right?
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.519
Ask the questions of what am I trying to solve here?
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.200
And is it something I need to have or is it something I want to have, right?
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:38.079
And then looking at it from a perspective of, okay, well, what's going to give me the maximum impact for the lowest amount of effort and implementation, right?
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:39.920
So I I love that framework.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.160
I think that's always it's very easy to chase the shiny objects, right?
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.799
And in technology, there's a lot of shiny objects, but you might have different needs within your clinic.
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:55.039
So you might be very strong clinically and things are flowing well there, but operationally you're struggling because you're getting denials.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.279
So there's uh you know, billing inefficiencies, or you know, the front desk, you have a high cancellation rate.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:26.480
So maybe there's some inefficiencies there that are happening at the front desk from uh follow-ups and patient experience, or you get, you know, one of the challenges that we have from a marketing standpoint is we're pumping in the leads for the front desk, um, but someone's not calling them back, or there's very low follow-up, or there's speed of calling someone back, or um, you know, the way that the phone call is handled, or even the form inquiry is handled.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.400
So uh there's technologies there too that can speed up that communication back to the patient.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.079
That, hey, we got your message, we're on it.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:35.440
These are some of the common things here.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.119
Give us your insurance information.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:59.599
And and the more automated all of that becomes, the better from a marketing perspective, all the efforts you're putting out there, the cost of uh, say Google Ads, things like that, your cost per lead gets better and better and better because the the sales part of it, right, which is at the front desk, becomes better and more efficient and leverages this technology and all those great things there.
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:08.799
Um so Alex, I I'm curious, uh is there a what's kind of the cool things that WebPT is working on right now that hasn't come out yet?
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:12.880
Yeah, like I I I will leave one uh caveat here.
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:14.720
Come and see us at PPS.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:20.640
If you're heading to PPS, uh you you're gonna see something really unique and really cool.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:42.319
Uh I I think it will take more than uh one hour to actually describe all of the levels that we are defining it, but I I can tell you, Neil, that the product that uh we will have coming into market uh will not be like anything else that's been there before, uh both in terms of the design, in terms of construction architecture, but also in terms of the functionality.
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:50.559
Uh and I think it's it's wonderful to see this because as as a rehab community, we we need a product that's coming like out.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.480
We we need this new product.
00:32:52.720 --> 00:33:03.119
So as a rehab community that is is where it is, uh we're we're gonna really change things up and change the way clinicians operate.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:15.599
But at the same time, uh we're also already have a strong community of customers uh that uh will be amazed and surprised about how much even better their life is gonna become.
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:22.880
So with with a non-answer answer, I'm gonna invite everyone to come to PPS and stay tuned and pay pay attention to us.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:24.640
Yeah, I love the teaser there.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.279
Thanks, Alex.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.079
So yeah, big things coming there from WebPT.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.960
Uh, excited to see that I'll be at PPS myself.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:34.640
So I hope to see everybody on this podcast uh out there.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:39.519
Go visit the WebPT booth, check them out, their new uh updated product launch there.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:46.640
Exciting to see what you guys have developed and uh are bringing to market to help clinics run smoother and more profitable.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:47.839
I'm very excited for that.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.720
And um, you know, if check out WebPT.com, you know, they got great stuff on there.
00:33:52.799 --> 00:34:00.160
Um, all the new innovations that are coming out, I'm sure will be launched very uh soon, along with that announcement there at PPS.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.640
So very excited for that, uh Alex.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.160
Uh any final words of advice for our audience out there?
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.719
I think let's let's continue to build our profession.
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:17.440
I think uh all the efforts that we uh make, I think it's it's so important to notice that uh a technology and innovation is not a non-zero sum game.
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.480
Uh it's not uh somebody wins and somebody loses.
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:32.719
I think the entire community wins when we share our efforts and collaborate uh on a part where we're empowering and enabling our clinical community to deliver better care.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.880
And that is what I see our role is.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:43.360
We are aligned uh in our effort to make it a better future for rehab specialists, rehab professionals for the future.
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:48.079
And I am internally and exponentially optimistic about where we're headed.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.760
So stay tuned and thank you for your time, you and thank you for this conversation.
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:52.880
It's always great to see you.
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:53.599
You too.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.119
Thanks, Alex, for being on here.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.440
Tons of great uh knowledge and advice there.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:59.920
Love to hear what's happening over at WebPT.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.760
And for our uh practice owners out there, I love that framework.
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:09.119
Think about those key questions that you need to be asking in how's that patient experienced?
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.760
How are we improving efficiencies in the clinic?
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:17.280
How can we leverage technology in order to do this on a needs basis versus a wants basis?
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.400
I really love that.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:20.159
So thanks, Alex, for being on here.
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.760
And to our audience, thanks for uh listening to us on the Practice Marketing Podcast.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:33.199
Don't forget to like and subscribe us, as well as check out our YouTube channel where we have tons of these videos on there, as well as other marketing tips and at practicepromotions.net where we've got tons of resources.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:36.800
Don't forget to order our direct uh mail marketing kit to you.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.119
You'll get uh lots of fantastic tips on that.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.880
So this is Neil Trickett from the Practice Marketing Podcast, wishing you much success in your practice.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:55.039
A free way for you to support our show is by leaving a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.320
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00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.719
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00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:05.519
Thanks.
00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:13.039
Hello and welcome to the Practice Marketing Podcast, highlighting successful strategies from North America's fastest growing clinics and experts so you can learn from their wins and power your practice growth.
00:00:13.199 --> 00:00:16.480
Hi, I'm your host, Neil Trickett, CEO of Practice Promotion.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:18.320
And today we're talking with Dr.
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:23.440
Alex Bandoreski, head of clinical innovation at WebPT.
00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:24.079
And Dr.
00:00:24.239 --> 00:00:34.320
Bandoreski brings more than 23 years of experience across clinical practice, rehabilitation operations, digital health, product strategy, and healthcare technology.
00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:43.600
And so throughout his career, Alex has focused on bringing technology into clinical practice in ways that solve real problems for clinicians and patients.
00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:59.679
And now Alex has joined WebPT as the head of clinical innovation, where he'll help drive product innovation by connecting the needs of the market, clinical workflows, and modern digital technology to build better solutions for rehab therapy providers like you.
00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:09.599
So today we're excited to talk with Alex and get into these key questions about where physical therapy is now and are we still operating like it did 30 years ago.
00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:11.599
So Alex, welcome to the podcast.
00:01:11.920 --> 00:01:12.480
Yo, thank you.
00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:15.519
It is a pleasure to be here and uh thank you for your time.
00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:20.560
And it's really an exciting time to be a physical therapist and really exciting time to be in a health tech.
00:01:21.120 --> 00:01:21.439
It is.
00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:24.400
It's a rapidly changing, evolving world.
00:01:24.719 --> 00:01:32.000
I think we're all trying to figure it out as we go along and play with the big players out there, right, in the digital space.
00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:41.840
We've got uh anthropic, we've got all kinds, you know, Google, we've got uh all kinds of technologies going on in the clinic.
00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:48.719
We've got all kinds of technologies from care, uh services and products and things that we can use within the clinic.
00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:52.159
Our patients are getting used to using so much more technology.
00:01:52.319 --> 00:02:01.680
Um let's start with the big question here is is why do you think physical therapy overall tends to be operating in many ways like it did 30 years ago?
00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:04.319
Isn't it a wonderful question, Neil?
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:07.439
And it is a question that I've been trying to answer for a long time.
00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:16.319
Uh I I think there's a lot of different uh points that drive clinicians to be leggards uh in amount of technology adoption.
00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:22.560
And and one of it is uh a uh essentially a heuristic of default mode of operation.
00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:28.639
We we as a clinical community uh have always been the art and the science, right?
00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:35.439
And I think that the science of healthcare, the science of physical therapy, has evolved exponentially.
00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.039
We are so much more advanced now than we were even 10 years ago.
00:02:39.199 --> 00:02:44.240
The research has really kept up validating our interventions, validating our points of care.
00:02:44.479 --> 00:03:02.479
But we are still that art of clinical care, the philosophical dogma of default mode of operation, the insistence of being the only in-person provider, the insistence on being manually driven uh it rather than seeing our point of expertise has caused us to be lagged.
00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:15.439
So you I think this question is spot on because I've always driven a thought experiment that if you have a time machine and you blind a patient and you transport them 30 years back in time and put him in a PT clinic, would they know the difference?
00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:20.719
Would they actually tell the difference where they are now versus like in 1996?
00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:33.280
Uh so I think it it's it's a matter of uh being someone who is aware, but not really seeing how these tools fit into our clinical operational workflow.
00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:44.159
So it really is up to us, it's up to you, it's up to me to both educate our community but also expose our community to some of the novelties that are readily entering the market, as you just referenced.
00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:44.639
Yeah.
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:49.280
It's such a great point because you you're so right in that, hey, we're we're hands-on, right?
00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:53.840
We're the nothing like that's not going to really change until there's robots that do exactly what we do, right?
00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:55.919
Which is gonna be way into the future.
00:03:56.240 --> 00:04:02.639
But if you think about it, um, you know, you a lot of what we do is hands-on care with patients, right?
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.039
And and manually moving the body.
00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:16.639
Uh so like that isn't changing much and probably won't change much into the future, but there's a lot more now that's being incorporated from a technology standpoint in the delivery of care.
00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:31.600
But I think where we we do see, you know, uh clinics also the there's clinics that are you know kind of kind of operating on that model of 30 years ago where things are very easy in in the clinic.
00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.720
Uh, maybe they're still using paper charts, who knows, right?
00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:37.680
Uh there's still that out that that's out there.
00:04:37.839 --> 00:04:41.759
And then there's other clinics that are very innovative, they're incorporating AI.
00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:46.720
And I think the the key thing to look at is it what are you leveraging technology for?
00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:51.199
And to me, it has to really be about delivering the patient experience.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:05:05.120
And and that comes from how the patient comes in, how it easy it is to work within your systems, and then your team has to work with the technologies and the operations for the benefit of the patient, right?
00:05:05.199 --> 00:05:16.240
To make make it a better experience for them, whether that's the documentation that helps the they get the insurance to pay you, um, or that patient can take that away to their doctor or the communication with their doctors.
00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:24.319
Uh, so that there's a I think a lot that can be done from a technology standpoint to make the patient overall experience overall better.
00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:24.959
Yeah.
00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:40.160
I think it's like a point of convergent evolution where if you look into uh how technology impacts uh and uh our daily lives, uh think about every point of our lives that has been changed over the last 10 to 15 years.
00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:50.160
Uh and how in a clinical setting we we are much more selective where we choose to embrace technology and where we choose to actually postpone technological innovation.
00:05:50.319 --> 00:05:54.800
So on the revenue side, on a business side, we've actually done fairly well as a community.
00:05:54.879 --> 00:06:02.079
We we we know that there's a need for this digitization because you don't want to still be mailing uh EOBs manually.
00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:06.399
You don't want a uh messenger pigeon to carry your financial resources.
00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:11.519
But on a clinical delivery side, uh I think that is where the real opportunity is.
00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:19.839
Uh uh and also on a connected side, I I think we we see technology uh as something that can answer some questions.
00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:32.720
The reality is you you you you drove your car, that's really even if it's not a smart car, it's a smart car, to your smart office, used your smart device to contact your smart uh friends uh and pretty much schedule your entire week.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:40.399
And right now we're we're speaking on a smart device so that you and I can transfer 2,000 miles of space in a matter of microseconds.
00:06:40.720 --> 00:06:58.079
The same logic needs to apply to every point of clinical care, and that is what effectively we're trying to build in terms of healthcare innovation and technology where interconnectedness and not that segregation where I'm okay with technology helping one side, but not the other side.
00:06:58.240 --> 00:06:59.120
So absolutely.
00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:00.079
Yeah.
00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:06.800
And and have you seen ways that our industry is kind of being held back from evolving faster?
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:16.079
I know, like, you know, if if uh if I want to go to a restaurant, I can just go on either their website or Google, I can go ahead and and book a table, right?
00:07:16.240 --> 00:07:18.800
And so that's what that's what people are used to out there.
00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:21.120
They're used to like, hey, I can just do everything online real quick.
00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:23.199
I don't necessarily have to talk to a person.
00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:30.240
Uh so I'm I'm just kind of curious from your end, what are some of the things that are overall holding us back in the PT industry?
00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:36.879
I think it's it's it's a curse of knowledge, uh, and it's uh a lack of uh desire.
00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:39.040
Like it's it's an incentive mismatch.
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:45.680
So the curse of knowledge is that the default mode is always going to be the optimal mode for us to revert to because we're comfortable in it.
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:49.759
We're comfortable in this manual analog way, method of delivering care.
00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:59.920
Uh and uh the mismatch in incentives is uh unlike other healthcare disciplines, which have been financially incentivized to modernize and to digitize.
00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:01.519
Physical therapy has not.
00:08:01.600 --> 00:08:10.000
We we we get paid the same uh fee schedule, we we build the same CPT codes uh and we get reimbursed the same numbers.
00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:18.560
Whether your clinic still operates uh uh on a 1996 model of care, or if you're operating on a 2026 model of care.
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:24.800
And that's created this large uh chisholm where you do, as you referenced, Neil, you have clinics that are excellent.
00:08:24.959 --> 00:08:30.000
They're modern, they're they're innovative, they they are on top of this tax stack.
00:08:30.160 --> 00:08:37.279
And then you have clinics that that still manually call their patients to verify their insurance or call manually to schedule their patients.
00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:46.159
Uh because there is no direct financial incentive, except there is an immense financial incentive because these are the externalities.
00:08:46.240 --> 00:08:50.559
You may not get paid more from your payer, but you'll be able to see more patients.
00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:55.840
You'll be more efficient with your billing, you'll be more efficient with your schedule, you'll actually get more patients to come in.
00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:57.759
Uh, and that's where technology can help you be.
00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:02.720
It optimizes efficiency and optimizes your understanding of your environment.
00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:04.320
Absolutely.
00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:17.759
And so are there any examples of things that you've seen as in clinics that are outdated processes or workflows that you've seen that seem to be outdated that that if modernized would would make the clinic run much better?
00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:19.120
I I think so.
00:09:19.279 --> 00:09:26.080
Like right now, you have seen there's a lot of chatter in a musculoskeletal space about practicing on top of your license, right?
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:29.919
Like the type of license care, type of top of scope care.
00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:31.360
Uh, but we're not defining it.
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:34.960
We're very good about embracing these new philosophies, but not well defined.
00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:41.360
The opportunity in top-of-scope care is to establish a true team model of healthcare delivery.
00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:49.360
In essence, being able to provide the top-of-scope deliverables in a healthcare setting based on what you are primed to do.
00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:54.720
So a physical therapist can provide top-of-scope physical therapy, method of delivery of care.
00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.919
Physical therapy assistants play a much larger role in a clinic.
00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.279
Physical therapy assistants take responsibility of the also delivery of care.
00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:08.960
Uh, athletic trainers step up and actually serve the role of extensive facilitators and extenders of rehabilitation.
00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:23.919
So we need to establish a team-based approach to clinical care, which again, I see some practices embracing, but we need to embrace it on a larger level because that is optimization, that is efficiency, that is where rest of healthcare is taken.
00:10:24.000 --> 00:10:26.879
That that's where dentistry is, that's where traditional medicine is.
00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:32.240
Uh we we essentially just need to move up and use technology to help us deliver this product.
00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:39.279
Yeah, we've seen you know big advances in in technology here in almost every other industry.
00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:55.519
And so just kind of curious why why has it that we're seeing more innovation in healthcare, but I still feel like healthcare is more difficult to modernize, and especially then we get down to like physical therapy as part of healthcare, which seems even harder to modernize.
00:10:55.600 --> 00:11:00.960
And I'm kind of curious what you've seen is where are we kind of limited there?
00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:09.519
Yeah, I think we we need to create a generation of clinicians that are clinician innovators.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:14.080
Uh we we have created a generation of clinicians that are clinician entrepreneurs.
00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:18.399
We've also done a good job creating a generation of clinicians that are clinician scientists.
00:11:18.559 --> 00:11:24.080
So we have clinicians that uh are licensed and board certified and fellowship trained.
00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:31.279
We have clinicians that, through their entrepreneurial equity, been able to expand their scope, they've been able to expand.
00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:34.960
We now need a generation of clinicians that are essentially tinkers.
00:11:35.360 --> 00:11:41.279
They need to take this technology and play with it and develop it and consult and advise and facilitate.
00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:51.440
One of the exciting parts in my current position is what when a product is being built with clinician oversight, with clinician guidance.
00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:58.240
This product then is not just built for clinicians, but is built by clinicians, which increases its operability.
00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:08.559
Uh so we need more clinicians to step up to these roles for this healthcare technology to in order to make this technology fit clinical operational workflow, which and I hope to get there.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:18.879
Yeah, that's really cool that you're incorporating uh real-world right applications of research and technology and what you do there, you know, at WebPT.
00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.320
And I'm kind of I'm kind of curious, like, okay, so we've got this next generation of clinicians now.
00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:26.000
We want them to tinker more.
00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:29.759
And there's this intersection of all the knowledge of clinical care, right?
00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:36.320
And then we've got this burdening technology and tech stack that you have to operate with and get get good at.
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:43.200
And so, what have you found that clinicians are actually wanting from technology that they're not necessarily getting today?
00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:49.039
Well, setting technicians use technology to extend their ability to be clinicians.
00:12:49.200 --> 00:13:01.039
Um which which not to say that technology can extend it away, but uh you it we will organize in a clinical effectivity.
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.080
We like computers uh and we need computers.
00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:20.960
So you your organic uh database is only optimized by a synthetic database.
00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:23.279
And that's that's what technology is.
00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:36.639
So a a every part of clinical operation can only be enhanced when you add a parallel technology lane to assist your out to reduce your effort and to assist your output, which which is what where we are.
00:13:36.799 --> 00:13:43.759
You need every point of operation to be effortlessly integrated without uh generating a lot of friction.
00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:47.919
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00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:25.279
And now back to the show.
00:14:25.679 --> 00:14:26.399
Yeah, absolutely.
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:33.039
And I I would just, you know, add to that that in today's environment we hear you know so much about overwhelm, burnout.
00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:38.320
Obviously, there's so much more demands from the need for paperwork, right?
00:14:38.639 --> 00:14:43.120
And um all these other administrative burdens, right, that are on the clinician.
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:46.399
Where, heck, we just want to treat patients, we want to get them better, right?
00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.960
That's what we love to do, that's what we went to school for.
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:56.960
You know, we don't want to jump through a gazillion hoops to get authorizations and you know, I can only see the patient for two visits and then I've got to write another report up to send back, you know.
00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:02.320
So, like I'm always approaching it from how can we make the job of a PT easier?
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:03.039
Right.
00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:25.200
And so I just love the things that are happening now where I know you guys have like AI scribes and this kind of stuff where you can just be treating a patient and you're just talking to the patient like you normally would and doing your examinations and you're taking measurements and you can just be talking to the computer and it's recording and you keep that patient experience going because you're not having to go off and type something in, right?
00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:39.279
And I I've certainly had lots of frustrations if I've been to the doctor and they're not paying any attention to me, they're just going ahead and typing on their computer and entering the stuff in their chart and their notes, and they're clicking boxes, and that's not like, okay, well, I'm here to you, right?
00:15:39.440 --> 00:16:04.879
So I think the the more we can facilitate the PTs being able to do patient care primarily and the administrative stuff become much easier for them, then we're gonna have better retention, we're gonna have better job satisfaction, and that's what we need to keep the therapists that we have now and encourage new ones to come into the profession.
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:17.039
And uh I, you know, what what are some of the things that you're looking at and WebPT is looking at to facilitate that patient experience and make things easier from the delivery of care standpoint?
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:29.600
Yeah, I think this this is the truly the exciting part where I think if you look into the technological growth chart and you look into the human growth chart, humans grow have a linear growth trajectory.
00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:32.080
Technology has an exponential growth trajectory.
00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:41.279
Uh and so technology of 2026 is exponentially greater than technology of 2025, which on its own was exponentially greater than technology of 2024.
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:49.679
So this process of human evolution where we are getting a little better every time, better clinicians, better outcomes, better delivery of care.
00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:56.879
Technology that is available today is leaps and bounds superior to technology from even six months ago.
00:16:57.039 --> 00:17:21.680
And so working with this technology presently and developing systems within this technology that helps clinicians and also building technology that is self-refining, self-learning, uh is the luxury that I we have right now working with WebPT, but even beyond, uh, I think if if you want your audience to have a good read, uh there's a gentleman whose name is David Epstein.
00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:34.400
I think he's a sports illustrated uh journalist, and he has a book called Inside the Box, which is uh a recent read about how constraints, actually current constraints, create an opportunity for growth.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:44.240
Uh and and what you see with technology, even when you're mentioning something like a scribe, a a typical scribe uh is a one-directional uh ambient sound reception tool.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.119
It it captures sound and then it puts it in the right place.
00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:50.640
And it's great because this is where technology was in the last couple of years.
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:52.480
We were able to capture sound.
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:57.839
But that's like if you if you follow a system of what, now what, so what, capturing sound is the what.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:58.559
Like that's great.
00:17:58.720 --> 00:17:59.279
Now what?
00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:00.319
What do you do with the sound?
00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.400
How does the sound help you operate better clinical product and process?
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:05.359
And so what?
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:10.319
How does this uh better sound reception help drive better clinical outcomes?
00:18:10.559 --> 00:18:15.200
How does it help drive better clinical experience, better out commercial output?
00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:24.400
Uh so that the so what is is really important, and that is only made available to us when you are able to build on modern tech stack because it just wasn't there before.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:41.759
So what I see happening and what what I see moving is that again to reference the prior point where if we have clinicians that in a clinic are willing to take on this technology, explore it, and ask the right questions, they're the ones that are gonna drive innovation and novelty.
00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.640
They're the ones that are gonna actually help modernize our workforce.
00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:47.119
So fantastic.
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:55.200
And so it's it's hard to predict this because I think, like you said, where we are today was not where we were six months ago, right?
00:18:55.279 --> 00:19:01.359
It's it's like it it the the pace of technology expansion is incredible, right?
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.240
And sometimes it's like really difficult to keep up with it.
00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:15.440
Um so I'm kind of curious, where do you see that PT clinics will be technology-wise, you know, in the next year, three years, five years?
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.480
What what do you kind of what are you guys envisioning there at WebPT?
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.400
Like where you where are you guys thinking for the future of clinics?
00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:34.880
So we we see we we are robust and we are hugely positive on a growth trajectory for physical therapy as a system, as a discipline.
00:19:35.039 --> 00:19:42.960
We we don't just see physical therapy thriving in the next five to ten years, but we see physical therapy moving into the forefront of leadership in United States healthcare.
00:19:43.039 --> 00:19:48.079
Uh and and we are building systems to drive this change, to drive this uh progress.
00:19:48.400 --> 00:20:01.759
Uh so we think that, well, I think, I'll I'll take this more personally, I think physical therapy as a discipline uh has been working for a couple of decades to create a new self-identity.
00:20:01.839 --> 00:20:05.920
And now we're able to come out and actually show what we can.
00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:26.240
Uh and so if we're gonna take on more responsibility, if we're gonna take on more challenging patients, if we're gonna take on uh patients with more homorbidities, uh, and if we're gonna take on risk, a smart system design needs to be able to handle this risk, needs to be able to handle this data, needs to be able to operationalize this data.
00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:38.240
And so we are both optimistic about where physical therapy community is going, but we're equally as optimistic about where our technology is gonna be able to support this community for decades and beyond.
00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:42.000
And and I see so many clinics now.
00:20:42.079 --> 00:20:53.200
We help we help a lot of clinics do this too, and that is I'm I'm a huge believer now in the hybrid model of care for clinics, and we can no longer just be insurance-based clinics.
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:55.680
And the future is what the patients want.
00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:07.839
And we've we're coming into a you know a$3 trillion healthcare industry and wellness industry, and we can be totally at the pinnacle of this industry if we so want it.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:28.799
And we're seeing a lot of clinics take advantage of that, uh, whether they're bringing in sports performance type programs, they're bringing in laser therapy, they're bringing in uh diagnostic kind of uh EMG and all kinds of different um technologies there, um, you know, uh going for cash-based women's health.
00:21:29.119 --> 00:21:36.400
There's a lot of things that we can offer under an insurance model, but how can we supplement that with what people really want and demand?
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:58.160
And I I I I believe that what you're talking about here, which is where we're going with technology is to make that patient experience better, but also decrease the the burdens on delivering that care from an administrative and the that allows us to create a richer experience, which people will want to pay for ultimately.
00:21:58.400 --> 00:21:58.640
Right.
00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:01.759
And um So I I I love what you guys are doing there.
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:12.799
I think being so innovative, how can we make it easier on the front desk, in billing, in uh the patient experience with clinician care, uh it's gonna be huge, right?
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:13.119
Yeah.
00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.799
And so many times, right?
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:21.200
In in in a typical physical therapy clinic, you you you you no longer have a luxury of being a one-point solution.
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.839
Like so you you're you're taking on multiple roles.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:34.160
If you're a front desk coordinator, you're not just a front desk coordinator, you're also a scheduler, you're also a lot of times a secondary biller, you're also a secondary assistant in in a clinical triage.
00:22:34.559 --> 00:22:42.319
Uh so how do you build a system that that essentially doesn't just live horizontally, which is the passive system?
00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.839
So the systems of yesteryear are horizontal, passive system, cause and effect, yes or no, if and that.
00:22:48.079 --> 00:23:03.680
Uh how do you build a system that both is horizontal but also vertical, that is able to transcend the roles and will help each domain specific knowledge transcend its role to allow everyone to fulfill and to contribute at the highest level?
00:23:04.400 --> 00:23:05.119
That is the question.
00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:06.720
So you're absolutely right, Neil.
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:11.039
The physical therapists have not fully actualized the value we bring to the system.
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.599
The number one, number three, and number five cost to US healthcare systems uh is musculoskeletal expense.
00:23:17.839 --> 00:23:24.240
So we musculoskeletal problems are driving this three trillion dollar healthcare industry.
00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:25.599
We are the solution.
00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:33.279
Physical therapy as a primary point of contact for these expensive problems uh is the way to keep the cost down.
00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.079
But how do you know you are driving costs down?
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:45.920
Well, you need a system that can capture data, but then it can not just passively capture that, make this data fulfill your projection, fulfill your output.
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:51.440
That's that is the system that is is gonna be coming to uh reality.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:53.200
So that's really cool.
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:55.279
And time, right?
00:23:55.359 --> 00:24:04.720
We we we're a time-based service, and so everything really revolves around the time and efficiencies of time uh in a clinic.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:20.319
And so I'm curious uh from what's been developed or what you're developing now for the future, is how what are some of the what are some of the big big areas of time saving that you you've been that WebPT's been able to do for clinics?
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:26.400
Uh whether that's uh have we been able to speed up the having to wait for authorizations, right?
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:27.920
Or putting in notes.
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:34.720
I'm kind of curious what what are some of the big time-saving um technologies that you guys have developed?
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:36.640
Wonderful question.
00:24:36.720 --> 00:24:47.440
And in in in the my ethnic uh tradition of answering a question with a question, uh I'm gonna ask you, do you think time should be one of the primary constraints of physical therapy deliveries?
00:24:47.599 --> 00:24:51.279
Should we continue to rely only on time in terms of value production?
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:52.240
I don't.
00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:55.440
No, because what does the patient want?
00:24:55.599 --> 00:25:00.079
Uh if they can get in and out with the same result in 30 minutes, that's what they want, right?
00:25:00.160 --> 00:25:01.839
They don't necessarily have to be there for an hour.
00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:03.279
A lot of times they do, right?
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:14.480
You need to kind of take them through a process and they need to do enough strengthening and you know, uh all kinds of different balance activities or whatever they need to be doing to get fully rehabilitated.
00:25:14.640 --> 00:25:18.160
Sometimes they have to be there an hour and a half, depending on their morbidities and stuff, right?
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.079
But some people just need to get in and out in half an hour.
00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:29.680
So yeah, I agree that that being just a time-based was was kind of a lock-in from the insurance industry and kind of how how they were going to pay for what we do.
00:25:29.839 --> 00:25:41.039
So I totally agree that um payment-wise, if we can show uh the value of an outcome versus the value of the time that we spend with people, I totally agree with that.
00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:55.599
I'm curious as far as uh saving uh administrative time because that's where the uh the bog down, the inefficiencies come when you have to have a front desk person waiting on hold for two hours to get an authorization from somewhere, right?
00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.359
Or uh you know, to follow up on a billing issue, right?
00:25:59.519 --> 00:26:04.240
Or uh your therapist is there having to put two hours worth of notes in the computer.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:09.680
Like I'm curious where you've seen massive time savings from implementing technologies in the clinic.
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:11.440
So I think that's wonderful.
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:14.960
And I think that's what you're referencing here is passive time or low value time.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.720
Like it's it's cost over outcome.
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:18.960
So the value is cost over outcome.
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:23.759
So what does it cost for you to spend three hours of your evening time documenting notes?
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:25.279
And does it enhance your outcome?
00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:27.680
Like, does it have any impact on the deliverables?
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:33.920
Or is it are you just fulfilling your responsibility, your peer responsibility?
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:37.119
Uh so this this effort is the key.
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:41.200
Uh are you able to reduce the burden and the effort that it takes for you to complete a task?
00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:44.480
Does technology help facilitate reduction in the effort?
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:46.240
Does it help you conserve energy?
00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:51.839
Uh energy in care delivery, energy in documentation, energy in billing, energy in accounts receivable.
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:53.359
All of it requires energy.
00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:58.799
And since energy is neither created nor destroyed, uh, we have a limited amount of energy.
00:26:58.960 --> 00:27:04.880
So as a provider, do you want to expend all this energy on these low-value passive tasks?
00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:09.440
Or do you actually want to expend energy on a higher value tasks?
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:14.160
As a biller, do you want to expend all your energy on chasing uh denials?
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:18.559
Or do you want to spend your energy on proactively anticipating new patients coming in?
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:25.200
As a friend desk coordinator, do you want to spend energy chasing all the phone calls and the messages that were left over the weekend?
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:37.359
Or do you want to spend your energy actually optimizing schedules so that there's a better match between a provider and a patient, and you're creating this ideal optimized alignment between a provider's strengths and patients' desires.
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:38.799
So that that that is the key.
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:53.839
Effort and energy is what technology solves, or that's what we solve because we have now a system, we have the technology and we have the architecture to build something that optimizes energy and reduces efforts in completing your task.
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:54.960
That's cool.
00:27:55.119 --> 00:28:04.720
And so if if if you're a scaling practice out there and let's face it, running a business is always different fires going on everywhere.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:14.720
Uh, but where from a from an efficiency, from a technology standpoint, what would be some of the greatest areas for them to focus on first?
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:18.000
Is it is it uh actions across the front desk?
00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:20.480
Is it is it billing and authorizations?
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.720
Is it the delivery of care documentation?
00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:31.039
Like what where are some of the critical areas that you think a practice owner out there would want to put their attention on first for technology implementation?
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:33.359
I I think this is great.
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:41.359
I think the number one thing is I want practice owners, I want physical therapists or administrators to actually start asking better questions.
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:46.960
Uh I think we we are looking at technology from the wrong set of optics and asking the wrong questions.
00:28:47.119 --> 00:28:51.359
Because the questions we ask don't help us better understand how this technology helps us.
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:54.400
We're asking questions about uh features.
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:58.000
Uh, we're not asking questions how these features fit our solutions.
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:08.240
Uh so ask questions, not whether uh that this new product that you're assessing for your clinical workflow uh is uh has a scribe.
00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:10.960
Ask methods the scribe was actually trained.
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:18.640
Ask efforts, uh ask for that that amount of build and amount of energy and resources that it took to build this.
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:20.160
That does it help your workflow.
00:29:20.319 --> 00:29:26.160
There's also a a way to optimize uh what you have available to what you actually need.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:36.079
Uh and the key is to create a lowest threshold of adoption so that practice owners understand is this something I need or is this just something I want?
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:39.759
Uh and and needs and wants are are not dichotomized.
00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:41.599
Like it they're parallel.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.680
So you have needs, which which is really what we are.
00:29:45.759 --> 00:29:47.279
We're helping people's needs.
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.359
And then there's wants, which we will we have all the wants.
00:29:51.519 --> 00:29:54.799
But then the wants are nice to have, and needs are must-haves.
00:29:54.880 --> 00:30:04.480
Uh and so technology that's built for needs that also answers the wants, it creates this Goldilocks point where you have best of both worlds.
00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:09.279
But but first point, I think, Neil, is educate yourself to ask better questions.
00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:11.519
Understand what it is that you actually are looking for.
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:16.400
And and is this question a need-based question or a want-based question?
00:30:16.880 --> 00:30:17.680
I love that.
00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:22.960
So focus on what's the uh what's the what's the problem you're trying to solve, right?
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:25.519
Ask the questions of what am I trying to solve here?
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:29.200
And is it something I need to have or is it something I want to have, right?
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:38.079
And then looking at it from a perspective of, okay, well, what's going to give me the maximum impact for the lowest amount of effort and implementation, right?
00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:39.920
So I I love that framework.
00:30:40.079 --> 00:30:44.160
I think that's always it's very easy to chase the shiny objects, right?
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.799
And in technology, there's a lot of shiny objects, but you might have different needs within your clinic.
00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:55.039
So you might be very strong clinically and things are flowing well there, but operationally you're struggling because you're getting denials.
00:30:55.200 --> 00:31:01.279
So there's uh you know, billing inefficiencies, or you know, the front desk, you have a high cancellation rate.
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:26.480
So maybe there's some inefficiencies there that are happening at the front desk from uh follow-ups and patient experience, or you get, you know, one of the challenges that we have from a marketing standpoint is we're pumping in the leads for the front desk, um, but someone's not calling them back, or there's very low follow-up, or there's speed of calling someone back, or um, you know, the way that the phone call is handled, or even the form inquiry is handled.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:32.400
So uh there's technologies there too that can speed up that communication back to the patient.
00:31:32.480 --> 00:31:34.079
That, hey, we got your message, we're on it.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:35.440
These are some of the common things here.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:37.119
Give us your insurance information.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:59.599
And and the more automated all of that becomes, the better from a marketing perspective, all the efforts you're putting out there, the cost of uh, say Google Ads, things like that, your cost per lead gets better and better and better because the the sales part of it, right, which is at the front desk, becomes better and more efficient and leverages this technology and all those great things there.
00:31:59.839 --> 00:32:08.799
Um so Alex, I I'm curious, uh is there a what's kind of the cool things that WebPT is working on right now that hasn't come out yet?
00:32:09.119 --> 00:32:12.880
Yeah, like I I I will leave one uh caveat here.
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:14.720
Come and see us at PPS.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:20.640
If you're heading to PPS, uh you you're gonna see something really unique and really cool.
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:42.319
Uh I I think it will take more than uh one hour to actually describe all of the levels that we are defining it, but I I can tell you, Neil, that the product that uh we will have coming into market uh will not be like anything else that's been there before, uh both in terms of the design, in terms of construction architecture, but also in terms of the functionality.
00:32:42.480 --> 00:32:50.559
Uh and I think it's it's wonderful to see this because as as a rehab community, we we need a product that's coming like out.
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:52.480
We we need this new product.
00:32:52.720 --> 00:33:03.119
So as a rehab community that is is where it is, uh we're we're gonna really change things up and change the way clinicians operate.
00:33:03.279 --> 00:33:15.599
But at the same time, uh we're also already have a strong community of customers uh that uh will be amazed and surprised about how much even better their life is gonna become.
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:22.880
So with with a non-answer answer, I'm gonna invite everyone to come to PPS and stay tuned and pay pay attention to us.
00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:24.640
Yeah, I love the teaser there.
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.279
Thanks, Alex.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:28.079
So yeah, big things coming there from WebPT.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:30.960
Uh, excited to see that I'll be at PPS myself.
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:34.640
So I hope to see everybody on this podcast uh out there.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:39.519
Go visit the WebPT booth, check them out, their new uh updated product launch there.
00:33:39.680 --> 00:33:46.640
Exciting to see what you guys have developed and uh are bringing to market to help clinics run smoother and more profitable.
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:47.839
I'm very excited for that.
00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:52.720
And um, you know, if check out WebPT.com, you know, they got great stuff on there.
00:33:52.799 --> 00:34:00.160
Um, all the new innovations that are coming out, I'm sure will be launched very uh soon, along with that announcement there at PPS.
00:34:00.240 --> 00:34:02.640
So very excited for that, uh Alex.
00:34:03.039 --> 00:34:06.160
Uh any final words of advice for our audience out there?
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.719
I think let's let's continue to build our profession.
00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:17.440
I think uh all the efforts that we uh make, I think it's it's so important to notice that uh a technology and innovation is not a non-zero sum game.
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:20.480
Uh it's not uh somebody wins and somebody loses.
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:32.719
I think the entire community wins when we share our efforts and collaborate uh on a part where we're empowering and enabling our clinical community to deliver better care.
00:34:32.880 --> 00:34:34.880
And that is what I see our role is.
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:43.360
We are aligned uh in our effort to make it a better future for rehab specialists, rehab professionals for the future.
00:34:43.519 --> 00:34:48.079
And I am internally and exponentially optimistic about where we're headed.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.760
So stay tuned and thank you for your time, you and thank you for this conversation.
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:52.880
It's always great to see you.
00:34:53.199 --> 00:34:53.599
You too.
00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:55.119
Thanks, Alex, for being on here.
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:57.440
Tons of great uh knowledge and advice there.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:59.920
Love to hear what's happening over at WebPT.
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:03.760
And for our uh practice owners out there, I love that framework.
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:09.119
Think about those key questions that you need to be asking in how's that patient experienced?
00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:11.760
How are we improving efficiencies in the clinic?
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:17.280
How can we leverage technology in order to do this on a needs basis versus a wants basis?
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.400
I really love that.
00:35:18.559 --> 00:35:20.159
So thanks, Alex, for being on here.
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:23.760
And to our audience, thanks for uh listening to us on the Practice Marketing Podcast.
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:33.199
Don't forget to like and subscribe us, as well as check out our YouTube channel where we have tons of these videos on there, as well as other marketing tips and at practicepromotions.net where we've got tons of resources.
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:36.800
Don't forget to order our direct uh mail marketing kit to you.
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.119
You'll get uh lots of fantastic tips on that.
00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:44.880
So this is Neil Trickett from the Practice Marketing Podcast, wishing you much success in your practice.
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:55.039
A free way for you to support our show is by leaving a five-star rating and review on Apple Podcasts.
00:35:55.199 --> 00:36:00.320
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00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:04.719
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00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:05.519
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