Patreon Summer Sampler: Michael Chucky Palmer

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Welcome back to the Path Went Chili for this month's
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bonus Patreon exclusive minisod.
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I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and I'm Ashley. Let's dive right
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into this month's case.
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June fourth, nineteen ninety nine, Wascilla, Alaska, while spending the
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night at a friend's house, fifteen year old Michael Palmer
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slips out to attend a graduation party. While viking home
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with friends, Michael vanishes without a trace, but his bicycle
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and sneakers are soon discovered at separate locations. Over a
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decade later, Michael's brother Chucky goes missing while riding a
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snow machine in the Talquina Mountains, but neither sibling has
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ever been found after that.
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The Path Went Chili. So today's minisod is a pretty
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unique one, as we will be covering the unsolved disappearances
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of two brothers from Alaska, Michael and Chucky Palmer. But
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this is not a case of siblings disappearing together. No,
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We're actually going to be chronicling two sep stories of
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two brothers who vanished over a decade apart from each other,
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at different locations under entirely different circumstances. Even though there
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doesn't appear to be any direct connection between the disappearances.
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There are few eerie parallels between them. In both cases,
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the victim was traveling somewhere with a group of people
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before they apparently became separated from them and went missing.
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While search parties would eventually come across Michael and Chucky's
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modes of transportation in one case of bicycle and the
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other a snow machine, no trace of either sibling was
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ever found. Not only is the whole situation an astonishing coincidence,
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but it has to be an incredibly painful tragedy for
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the Palmer family. I originally covered this on the Trail
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Went Cold five and a half years ago, and both
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stories deserved to be explored again.
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I'm in shock when you started talking about two brothers
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that went missing. I thought, oh my gosh, they went
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on this trip together and then they were nowhere to
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be found. This is two boys who go missing a
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decade apart, and what's wild to me is no trace
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of them has ever been found. There's a whimsical side
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of me who says, hey, you know, the first one
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went missing, he reached out to his brother and he
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went missing too, and they're alive and well somewhere. But
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I have a feeling you're going to give me information
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that tells me that's probably not the case. Very bizarre
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that they were with a group of people, This was
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not an isolated trip they were taking, and then for
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some reason they are isolated away from those people and
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end up never being seen again. I have to know
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more about the circumstances. And like you said, Robin, what
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a tragic and just unbelievable experience for the Palmer family.
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That lightning strikes twice in your family. There's this awful,
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awful circumstance that then a decade later happens again with
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one of your children or brothers or you know, uncles.
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And we don't know what happens, So tell me what
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we do know.
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Our story begins in nineteen ninety nine in Wassilla, Alaska,
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which is part of the Anchorage metropolitan area and had
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a population of just over five thousand people at the time.
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One of our central figures is fifteen year old Michael Palmer,
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who lives with his parents, Charles and Lisa Palmer, his
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sister Hannah, and two older brothers, Chris and Charles Junior.
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The latter of whom goes by the name Chucky. On
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June third, Michael told his family he was going out
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to spend the night at a friend's house, so he
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rode there after borrowing a bicycle from someone else. What
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the Palmer family didn't know was that Michael and three
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of his friends were planning to slip out and attend
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a graduation party. When Michael's mother phoned his friend's house
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that night, she was told the boys were sleeping in
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the clubhouse out back. No one was aware that they
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had actually gone to this party, which was located in
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the Meadow Lake subdivision outside Wassilla and approximately nine miles
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from the Palmer residence. This would be the first major
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party Michael ever experienced, and according to his friends, he
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drank some beer there but did not become noticeably intoxicated.
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At around four am on June fourth, Michael left the
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party on his bicycle alongside his three friends, who claimed
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they were all riding together on Pittman Road. When he
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started lagging behind them and soon dropped out of sight.
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They decided to pull over at a seven eleven and
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wait for Michael to catch up, but he never arrived.
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Assuming that Michael had decided to split away from the
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group and head back to his house. His friend stopped
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waiting and rode away, but unfortunately, Michael never did make
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it home that morning. When Lisa Palmer noticed her son
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wasn't there, she contacted his friends, who told her they
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thought Michael had ridden back home. After not hearing from him,
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Lisa officially reported her son missing at around three pm.
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Oh this poor mother. Okay, so when Lisa notices her
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son's on home, she starts to pan because any mother
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wouldn't say, you know, where is he? And he should
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have been with these friends that I trusted, you know,
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they were all in this one group together. When I
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first heard the story, I was assuming these are grown
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men who go missing at different times. But Michael is
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only fifteen years old. Here he's also being exposed to
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alcohol for the first time. While he's not showing visible
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signs of being highly intoxicated, I could see him feeling sick,
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feeling unsteady on his bike. And if someone were to
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pull up next to him and ask like, hey man,
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you want to ride, or hey man, you know, like
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do you want to jump in? I could see a
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kid saying, God, yeah, I'm not really in a good
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space right now and being much more susceptible to that
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than they would be if they were sober, or if
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they were with a group of friends instead of being alone.
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Yeah, we're going to talk about this more later on
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in this minisode, but there are some parallels between this
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case and another case we did in the past about
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another underage kid who died understrained circumstances after attending a party,
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and the circumstances were very Sickimler where he was underage,
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it was his first party where he actually had to
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do drinking with alcohol, and then something bad happened to them.
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And there's been like a lot of speculation that it
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either played a role in Michael's disappearance or there are
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some people who attended that party, or possibly even his friends,
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who aren't telling everything they know, and that's something sneaky
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may have happened, and that a cover up may have
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taken place.
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And that's what I was going to say, like, how
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reliable are these kids as narrators when it comes to
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how intoxicated he was? If you think back to high
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school parties when there's nothing to hide, really, you can't
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really necessarily say how drunk your friends are if you
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yourself are drunk as well, And so I have a
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hard time believing that, like these kids, do you know, Robin,
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did they talk to the kids at the party as
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well as the three boys? It was three boys he
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was with, right, Well, yeah, yeah.
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They did talk to the people at the party, and
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there definitely wasn't anything to really arouse suspicion. Apparently they
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just said he was drinking, but nothing happened. But it
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sounds like some of the suspicion is directed at the
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three friends because they their story is that Michael was
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behind us, the lag behind, and we waited for him
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and then he just vanished without a trace. But some
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people have found that suspicious, like if your friend just
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disappeared while you're riding home, why didn't you try looking
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for him? Why didn't you Why did you just automatically
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assume he was going to go back home, particularly since
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he wasn't supposed to be spending the night at home,
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like they were going to spend the night at a
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clubhouse at a friend's residence. So that's why some people
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think that there might be more to their story.
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I could see it as being super suspicious, but I
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could also see it as being just kids being kind
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of reckless and not really thinking about other people. It
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could cut either way. I mean, it just seems inexplicable
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that he could just go missing. It feels like there
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must be more to the story. But I also could
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see just kids being kids and not really thinking, especially
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if they themselves are intoxicated. I remember being thirteen or
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fourteen being at a party and barely being able to
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be responsible for myself getting home and maybe not necessarily
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looking out for my friends or then looking out for
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me as much as they should have in that situation.
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I know, when you get older, it's very much emphasized
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that you do that, but I think when you're like
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really underage and you're drinking, kids can maybe just not
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act in the most intelligent of ways.
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Oh yeah, I'm with you, Jules. I think you're right.
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I mean, they're kids that are drinking, which is, you know,
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it's a normal thing in many places that that happens.
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But when you're that young, I think the world is
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so centered around you, your enjoyment, your happiness. You're fun.
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You know, they're being a little bit risque and feeling adventurous,
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and so you're not really looking at a global issue.
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You're not really paying attention to the weight of the
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decisions you're making. It's just in good fun and you're
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being a little bit sneaky, right, It's an adventure for
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you guys. So I would like to know who all
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was at this party? Is this all like thirteen to
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sixteen year olds? Are we talking about some of age
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people who are buying alcohol for these young kids? I
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think that would make oh, oh, you know, would tell
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us a lot about who was there and who could
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have maybe followed Michael or intercepted him at some point.
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Yeah, they didn't really specifically release any information about who
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was at that party, but I suspect they were older
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kids because it's described as being a graduation party, so
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that means they would have been around eighteen to nineteen
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years old, whereas Michael was only fifteen. But I have
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to suspect that the older people there were providing the booze.
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So a search of the area turned up no trace
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of Michael, but his bicycle was soon discovered in the
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Little Sissitina River, which is located near Pittman Road. A
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search of the river was conducted to see if Michael
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might have fallen in and drowned or succumbed to hypothermia,
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but no body was found. The river was very shallow
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and flowed downstream towards a logjam, so if Michael's body
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had been in there, it likely would have turned up.
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Tracker dogs could also not pick up michael scent at
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the river or in the nearby woods. However, there was
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a bit of controversy about the discovery of the bicycle
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because Michael's brother Chris did not think it was the
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same bike which Michael had borrowed that night. There was
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another odd development when one of the teenagers who had
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attended the graduation party notified police that he found a
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pair of high top Converse sneakers on his father's property
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next to a private airstrip. The location was two hundred
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yards away from the Little Sissitina River and less than
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a mile from where Michael was last seen. The sneakers
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were wet and muddy and matched the brand in size
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that Michael wore. Needless to say, the Palmer family did
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not believe Michael had just run off and disappeared voluntarily,
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and the discovery of the bicycle and his shoes seemed
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to confirm.
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That when we talk about missing people and later you think, okay,
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they were discovered somewhere, Right, this was something they chose
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to do. They planted. Michael's fifteen, he's drinking at a party,
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he's being a kid, and I don't think any part
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of him was going to go missing that night, right,
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there was There's no planning on his part. There was
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no you know, I'm going to have this life away
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from here. It's just he's too young for that to
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me and unsophisticated when you talk about a young, you know,
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young teenager doing something like that. So when the Palmer
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family realizes their son hasn't come home, I mean, the
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ultimate thing that you have to think is someone met
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with Michael that night and is the reason he didn't
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come home. And that's when your brain starts running through
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scenarios of what happened here. You know, was it human trafficking,
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did someone hurt him as someone holding him? Is you know,
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he being trafficked for labor? What is happening to our
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baby right now? Or you know, in some ways worst
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is he deceased and wears his body And.
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I'm sure the discovery of the shoes is particularly disturbing
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because one thing you're not going to do when you're
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deciding to run away is take off your footwear and
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just leave it laying around, Like he's not going to
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run away while he's in his soft feet or bare feet.
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So I'm sure when they found that, they realized that
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something bad must have been happen to them.
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What does it mean too? Like I just keep fixating
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on those shoes, like wet muddy shoes by an airstrip.
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Did somebody place them there? Are they supposed to be
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like a red herring to like make them look elsewhere
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rather than where his body actually is. I can't, for
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the life of me, seem to reconcile, like why somebody
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would put those shoes there? I just think I think
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there's no possibility that Michael himself left them there, because
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why would he go shoeless and take off these wet
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shoes and just abandon them there? Why would he even
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be there in the first place. It seems likely that
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whomever you know did this harm to Michael or murdered
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Michael is the one who is responsible for the shoes,
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But just why exactly?
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Like I haven't seen too many other cases like this before.
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Where someone goes missing and they just find their shoes
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lying around in a random place, So it does point
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towards an outside party placing them there, Oh.
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Robin, what's the case the some unsolved mysteries where the
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shoes are found in a different place from the train accident,
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or whether or not it was intentional.
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Or is that the teenage girl, yes, yes, is yet Yeah?
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The at Tifanyvlante case where she was hit by a train,
255
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but her shoes were found I think maybe a mile
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away next to the side of the road, and her
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parents were speculating that whoever killed her may have thrown
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them there, though I personally believed that she was in
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such a bad state that she may have taken them
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off herself and thrown them into the woods because she
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was planning suicide.
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I agree with you. I'm definitely not of the camp
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that believes that she was murdered. Given her state of
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mind leading up to it and the events that transpired
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that night, it just seemed like those were a major
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trigger for her.
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Well.
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There were rumors that fights had taken place at the
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party that Michael attended. Investigators interviewed teenagers who were there
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and uncovered no evidence to indicate that something had happened
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to Michael. Several months after he went missing. Things took
272
00:13:56.679 --> 00:13:59.960
a darker turn when Michael's brothers heard that a local
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00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:03.399
youth had been telling his story about seeing Michael get
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00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.440
beaten and shot on a bridge. Upon learning this, Charles
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Palmer Sr. Tracked down this young man and personally escorted
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him to the police station to share his story. The
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00:14:14.600 --> 00:14:17.759
young man showed them the bridge where the incident allegedly occurred,
278
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but it wasn't long before police began poking holes in
279
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his story. After taking a polygraph and flunking it, he
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finally recanted the story and admitted he made the whole
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thing up.
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This is so heartbreaking when this happens in a case.
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You look at the Palmer family who is desperately seeking
284
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any kind of information, and then you have this young
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kid who thinks it's going to be funny or get
286
00:14:41.759 --> 00:14:44.399
him some kind of attention or make him seem important,
287
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to make up something so horrific and tragic, right, telling people,
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including his brother that he knows what happened, right, that
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this kid is beaten and shot and pushed over this bridge,
290
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and all of this just horrific details and then to
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come to find out he made the whole thing up.
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It is enraging to me, and I wish I could
293
00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.840
say that this didn't happen very often, But when you
294
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have these unsolved cases, families are so desperate for information
295
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:16.720
and they don't feel like they're getting it from the media,
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they don't feel like they're getting it from the police,
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and so they're seeking anyone who will talk to them,
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and it unfortunately brings people like this kid to the surface,
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00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.399
who say, oh, I'm going to be important in this
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for you know, have a few minutes of fame, and
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it is detrimental and destroys a family who's asking someone
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00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.039
to help and instead this person's actually creating so much
303
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trauma and harm.
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Yeah, we see this all the time in missing persons
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cases and unsolved murdered cases. And I have a feeling
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that this guy was bragging just for attention and probably
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thought it would never escalate to the point where we
308
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:51.639
would have to speak to the police. But I do
309
00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:53.960
love the fact that Charles Senior took the initiative to
310
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actually find him and drag him to the police station,
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and he probably realized, oh shit, I'm in big trouble.
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Right now, and that's when he finally came clean and
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admit that he was just spreading false information. However, there
314
00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.679
was still speculation that Michael might have been attacked while
315
00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:10.440
riding home on his bicycle, and that at the very least,
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00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:13.799
his three friends were not telling the whole story. Michael's
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00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.559
father was always skeptical about their account of what happened
318
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:20.159
that night, and ended up hiring two different private investigators
319
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to look into things. One of the investigators apparently left
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town because she was threatened, and the other one uncovered
321
00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.080
rumors that Michael may have never left the party and
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became the victim of a murder or kidnapping. Unfortunately, nothing
323
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.919
could be substantiated, and the leads eventually dried up. While
324
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:38.879
there was no evidence to prove that Michael was a
325
00:16:38.960 --> 00:16:41.720
victim of foul play, there was no evidence to prove
326
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he wasn't either. The disappearance took a major toll on
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the Palmer family, and Charles Senior and Lisa wound up
328
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getting a divorce. Michael's case faded from the spotlight, but
329
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.919
wound up getting some additional attention eleven years later, after
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his family made the news again for the worst reason. Imaginable.
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Oh my goodness. Okay, so before we get to the
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next trauma this family's facing, I want to just address
333
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real quick, like the dynamic between the husband and wife,
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00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:12.039
mister and Ms Palmer where they end up getting a divorce.
335
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I'm sure many manufactors went into that, but when tragedy hits.
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One of the things I found when I was working
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with families on a regular basis was that whatever the
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state of the family was before tragedy, it got amplified
339
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:29.880
two thousand percent right after a tragedy struck. So if
340
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.920
there were any fusses, cracks, things like that, struggles in
341
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the family, stresses in the family, a trauma would completely
342
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unravel the family. And even when there wasn't a blatant problem.
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That when a family is trying to grieve a singular
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problem as individuals and they're not given all the resources
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because there's very few resources for families affected by these
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unsolved crimes. Right when they're not given proper resources to
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heal properly and to make progress mentally and physically as
348
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a family and as individuals, it's nearly impossible for all
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the family members to respect and understand different grieving strategies.
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Different approaches with the police, different approaches to the media.
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You would see like a husband say I'm done talking
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to the media. I don't want the police calling here,
353
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and a mother getting upset and saying, well, if you know,
354
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how dare you do you not care about our son?
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I'm going to have the police calling me every day, right,
356
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:31.000
So those just small differences and not having the professional
357
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tools available to you to say, hey, guys, you need
358
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to grieve as a family. You need to speak and
359
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communicate about these things. Without having someone to hold your
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hand through that. I don't know many families that could
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survive and could leave without these kind of other subsequent
362
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traumas that come, like divorce, like deaths, like medical issues
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that many families face because it's too much, it's inhumane,
364
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it's unimaginable to think of what you would do when
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your child disappears.
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It always feels like there's this darkness, this void, this
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like indelible mark that is left on a family. And
368
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Robin's talked about it a lot in past unsolved mysteries
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cases where there's a family and you see them kind
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of taken out well before their years due to illness tragedies.
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It just feels like tragedy gets more tragedy, and a
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lot of these families, whether it be you know, premature death, divorce, illness,
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these traumas really leave a mark emotionally and physically, and
374
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sometimes it takes years to manifest, but just the catastrophic
375
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damage that this does to a family unit can't be ignored.
376
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And it's really heartbreaking when you see two people grow
377
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apart and grieve apart rather than come together. But I
378
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think you're absolutely right, Ashley, like it amplifies whatever issues
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you're having in a marriage or in your family unit
380
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is going to be you know, exacerbated tenfold. So if
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everything is really great and you have really healthy communication
382
00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.440
and you're able to come together and support each other,
383
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then that's fantastic. But I think that there's a lot
384
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of families where everybody has their issues and things like
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that can just cause people to have a lot of
386
00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.680
anger looking for somebody to blame. Right when you don't
387
00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:19.960
have anybody to point a finger at, when there are
388
00:20:20.039 --> 00:20:23.039
no answers, it's very easy to point fingers at each other.
389
00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:26.160
Amen. Oh my god, Jules. That's one of the biggest
390
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:30.319
things that I see with families is it's I want answers,
391
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.680
and if I don't have a perpetrator to blame, there
392
00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:38.440
is an understandable anger that exists and a frustration and
393
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.839
a resentment. And it's easy to look next door and
394
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:43.880
say you it's because of you. Do you remember when
395
00:20:43.880 --> 00:20:45.880
you did this? And you know? Oh, it's because of
396
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.839
the police. It's because you know, And even the victim,
397
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:51.440
like there's there's frustration with the victim oftentimes when I
398
00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:53.400
talk to families where it's like, why did he do that?
399
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.799
You know? And it's it's not really guided towards them.
400
00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.240
It's not really guided towards your spouse. But the birds
401
00:21:00.279 --> 00:21:03.000
are there and they hurt, and the feelings aren't any different,
402
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:04.720
even though the intention may not be there.
403
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:09.119
By twenty ten, Chucky, the middle brother in the Palmer family,
404
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:12.359
was thirty years old and had three daughters of his own.
405
00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:17.119
That spring, Chucky and the oldest Palmer brother, Chris, decided
406
00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:20.480
to take a trip to the Talquina Mountains alongside their
407
00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:24.920
stepfather and two friends. The group would travel nearly seventy
408
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:29.039
miles away from Wasilla and parked their cars on Mastadon
409
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:32.960
Road near Bald Mountain. They then used snow machines to
410
00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.160
navigate through the woods and stated a cabin located five
411
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:39.480
miles from the road. On April tenth, the group was
412
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.079
of the cabin and planning to do some more snow machining,
413
00:21:42.839 --> 00:21:45.759
but since the handlebar on Chris's snow machine had snapped
414
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.640
off that morning, he was forced to stay behind while
415
00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:52.799
everyone else went on their excursion. With the Palmer brother's
416
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.880
stepfather leading the way, the group left the cabin and
417
00:21:55.960 --> 00:21:59.400
rode their snow machines together through the woods. They eventually
418
00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:01.960
started heading back to the cabin on the main trail,
419
00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.079
but at around seven fifteen pm, CHUCKI became separated from
420
00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:09.279
the group and headed off in the wrong direction. When
421
00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.720
Chucky did not return, he was reported missing the following morning.
422
00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.799
So he's actually with his brother at the time, right,
423
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.200
and his stepfather, Yeah.
424
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:21.920
That's correct, and a couple of other friends.
425
00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:25.680
Oh my god. Okay, so they've already experienced as a
426
00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:29.319
family this horrific trauma and then they're just out on
427
00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:34.960
a normal trip together as a family and this tragedy
428
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:38.599
occurs again. I can't even fathom what it would be
429
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.119
like to say, Okay, I've had this feeling before when
430
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:45.319
someone's gone, like I guarantee you like I Okay, So
431
00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:49.759
when Buddy passed away and I wasn't able to you know,
432
00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:52.920
save him or fix him or access him anymore. If
433
00:22:52.960 --> 00:22:56.359
I didn't get a phone call within like ten minutes
434
00:22:56.400 --> 00:22:57.680
of when I was supposed to get a phone call
435
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.000
from my parents or my brother or a good friend,
436
00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.000
I immediately went to these horrific places in my head
437
00:23:03.000 --> 00:23:04.920
that something had happened right, that I was going to
438
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:07.720
lose them forever. And it took years for me to
439
00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:12.759
get past that kind of immediate panic and fear. Here.
440
00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:16.640
I guarantee you the moment they couldn't see Chucky, there's
441
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:18.960
this kind of like, oh my god, what happened to him? Okay,
442
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:22.640
we've had this before. What happened? But no way, anyone
443
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:24.799
in that group really thought we're going to suffer the
444
00:23:24.839 --> 00:23:29.119
exact same tragedy again. And sure enough, it goes from
445
00:23:29.359 --> 00:23:32.640
you know, an hour, two hours, three hours, and it's
446
00:23:32.680 --> 00:23:35.079
the next morning that they go, oh my god, the
447
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:38.440
reality is is that Chucky didn't come back. We're going
448
00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.640
to live this nightmare all over again. And then it
449
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:42.480
starts to unravel from there.
450
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.240
And the same circumstances too. It's just like Michael, where
451
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.319
they're all riding together and then Chucky becomes separated and
452
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:51.559
then they just never see him again. An extensive search
453
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:54.160
was performed in the area, and Chucky's snow machine was
454
00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:57.400
eventually discovered on a side trail near Sheep River, about
455
00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:00.599
twelve miles from the cabin. It was a that after
456
00:24:00.640 --> 00:24:03.880
taking a wrong turn and getting lost, Chucky's snow machine
457
00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:07.319
had eventually gotten stuck in some deep snow. It seemed
458
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:09.599
likely that he left the spot on foot, but the
459
00:24:09.640 --> 00:24:12.839
snow in that area was around waist deep. While CHUCKI
460
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:15.359
was dressed appropriately for the weather, he did not have
461
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:19.640
a GPS device, survival gear, food, or water. The weather
462
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:23.160
conditions would worsen and seriously hamper the search effort, as
463
00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:25.319
there was a total of twenty eight inches of snow,
464
00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:28.440
making it difficult for the search helicopter to travel through
465
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:31.640
the air. The Renault footprints found near the snow machine
466
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:34.440
and no traces of blood anywhere, and when Chucky failed
467
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.640
to turn up, the bad weather brought an end to
468
00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.119
the search effort after five days. After the spring thaw,
469
00:24:40.440 --> 00:24:43.240
another search was conducted of the area in June, but
470
00:24:43.319 --> 00:24:45.559
it still failed to turn up any trace of Chucky.
471
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:48.599
Since it was assumed that Chucky got lost and died
472
00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:53.279
of exposure, he was legally declared dead one year later. Unfortunately,
473
00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:56.880
Chucki's body has never been recovered, and the disappearance of
474
00:24:56.880 --> 00:25:01.119
his brother Michael also continues to remain unsought. So I
475
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:03.960
guess you could say the path when Chili.
476
00:25:05.319 --> 00:25:10.440
This is insane. I mean, what is helpful in Chucky's
477
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.160
case is that you do have an explanation that can
478
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:17.440
make logical sense to you. Right, the weather was horrible.
479
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:21.160
It's possible that he lost visual contact with his party,
480
00:25:21.599 --> 00:25:24.000
he didn't know where he was going, he runs out
481
00:25:24.000 --> 00:25:28.160
of gas, or his snowmobile gets stuck and he has
482
00:25:28.200 --> 00:25:30.839
to walk on foot, which is a very dangerous thing
483
00:25:30.839 --> 00:25:33.119
when you're out in the wilderness, and incredibly dangerous when
484
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.359
you're by yourself. And so with his case, there's a
485
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:42.240
logical explanation. With Michael's case, there's not. But both cases
486
00:25:42.839 --> 00:25:46.559
we don't have remains found. So to me, it's wild
487
00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:49.640
that Chucky's body isn't discovered. When the snow thaws and
488
00:25:49.680 --> 00:25:52.920
the springtime comes in, summer's there and hikers are hiking
489
00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:56.440
and doing all of these things, there's no recovery of him.
490
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:00.880
I am inclined to think exactly what what they're saying
491
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:03.480
is that he, you know, walked off into the wilderness,
492
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.480
he succumbed to the elements, and then you know, passed
493
00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.519
away in the woods. So but why didn't they find
494
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.799
his body? And then with Michael, I don't think we
495
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.000
have any concept of what happened to him. If he
496
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:19.359
you know, got lost and did the same thing, passed
497
00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:21.160
away in the woods or something like that, if he
498
00:26:21.279 --> 00:26:25.039
was picked up and trafficked, was he attacked and killed
499
00:26:25.200 --> 00:26:30.000
like this poor family has no resolution, no place to
500
00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.680
go on or their missing loved ones. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
501
00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:36.880
How are there no bodies. It's just shocking. You'd think
502
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.119
at least one of their bodies would have surfaced. It
503
00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.880
seems inexplicable. I know there is a lot of terrain
504
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.160
and there's a lot of places that they could be,
505
00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:49.720
particularly in Michael's case, because they don't know exactly where
506
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.559
he was and if somebody took him, But it seems
507
00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.960
like chucky. There's really only so far he could have traveled,
508
00:26:56.440 --> 00:26:59.519
so once everything thaws out, you really would expect to
509
00:26:59.519 --> 00:27:02.960
find his remains. So when you don't, it's just confounding.
510
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:05.559
Yeah. I mean, we've seen a lot of cases like
511
00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:08.200
this where someone goes missing in the wilderness and a
512
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:11.200
massive search effort fails to find them, but then many
513
00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:13.559
years after the fact, someone will just happen to stumble
514
00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:15.640
upon the remains and it turns out they were there
515
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.599
the entire time, yet the search team just happened to
516
00:27:18.599 --> 00:27:21.319
miss it. And I could see that happening here because
517
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:25.759
there was so much snowfall during the days following his disappearance.
518
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:28.279
But yeah, like if it was Chucky's story alone, it
519
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:30.960
would be a terrible tragedy. But we see so many
520
00:27:30.960 --> 00:27:33.039
of these stories every year where people go missing in
521
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:35.599
the wilderness and everyone figures that they probably just got
522
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.039
lost and died of exposure. But I can't think of
523
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:41.079
another case where one person from one family goes missing
524
00:27:41.160 --> 00:27:44.680
under these circumstances and then has another sibling go missing
525
00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:49.160
like ten years earlier, and their circumstances are quite different.
526
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:51.440
So it's just pretty much like a one and a
527
00:27:51.480 --> 00:27:54.400
billion coincidence that would happen to this family.
528
00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:58.359
I remember when I was in my twenties, my ex
529
00:27:58.400 --> 00:28:02.160
boyfriend's parents had a bunch of different condos at sun Peaks,
530
00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:03.799
and so we used to go up there in the winter,
531
00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:06.319
and I remember he was such an idiot, so I
532
00:28:06.400 --> 00:28:08.839
was so pissed off. One night, I was so drunk,
533
00:28:09.240 --> 00:28:11.759
and I remember being like, I'm gonna walk back to
534
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.480
the condo, just thinking I knew exactly where I was going,
535
00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:17.400
what I was doing, and a major blizzard started and
536
00:28:17.440 --> 00:28:20.839
I took the wrong way. I was completely fucking lost, oops,
537
00:28:21.240 --> 00:28:24.640
completely lost, and I had no idea where I was going.
538
00:28:24.880 --> 00:28:27.319
It was like a white out and I'm like, I'm
539
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:30.000
gonna die out here. I don't know where I'm going,
540
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.359
what I'm doing. It was terrifying. He happened to find
541
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.359
me somehow, some way. And then years later, I remember
542
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.000
there was a case where I can't remember the guy's name,
543
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:42.839
but he went missing at sun Peaks as well, and
544
00:28:43.240 --> 00:28:45.359
last I checked, his body was never discovered.
545
00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:48.920
Do you know that case, Robin, I don't think so, no.
546
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:51.440
No, Yeah. That always scared me. And this idea that like,
547
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.079
oh my gosh, like I'm gonna be missing in this note,
548
00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:56.720
no one is ever going to find me. So I
549
00:28:56.799 --> 00:29:00.519
can't even imagine what it is like for these families
550
00:29:00.559 --> 00:29:02.720
when they lose a loved one, and in this case,
551
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:06.000
to lose two. I can't even wrap my head around that,
552
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:10.920
just how devastating that would be. So this is definitely
553
00:29:10.920 --> 00:29:13.920
one of the most heartbreaking stories ever featured on either
554
00:29:13.960 --> 00:29:16.960
of our podcasts, and one person you have to feel
555
00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:20.960
particularly awful for is Chris Palmer, who's had to endure
556
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:24.920
the disappearance of two brothers. The disappearance of Michael would
557
00:29:24.960 --> 00:29:28.119
be difficult enough for Chris, but the loss of Chucky
558
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:32.000
must have been particularly painful since he was present at
559
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:34.960
the time and probably wonders if things might have turned
560
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:38.240
out differently if the handlebar on his snow machine hadn't
561
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:41.079
snapped off, forcing him to stay behind at the cabin.
562
00:29:41.960 --> 00:29:45.960
After Chucky went missing, Chris spent four days snow machining
563
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:49.319
through the wilderness searching for him, and said, quote, I
564
00:29:49.400 --> 00:29:51.599
never thought I'd have to do this shit ever Again,
565
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:54.839
two brothers aren't supposed to go missing from the same family.
566
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.039
My brother's out there fucking starving. How am I going
567
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:02.319
to eat? End quote? During this group's trips through the woods,
568
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:05.039
it was ordinarily Chris's job to ride at the rear
569
00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:08.759
and to make sure nobody got lost. But since Chris
570
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:13.519
couldn't go with them this time, Chucky assumed his responsibility. Unfortunately,
571
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:17.279
he somehow got separated from everybody else and nobody noticed
572
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:20.480
until it was too late. It sounds like Chucky was
573
00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:24.720
somewhat inexperienced at this and using a relatively new snow machine,
574
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.359
so he probably just took a wrong turn somewhere and
575
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:31.000
got lost. After the machine got stuck, Chucky could not
576
00:30:31.079 --> 00:30:32.880
find his way back to the rest of the group,
577
00:30:33.319 --> 00:30:36.279
but considering the machine was found twelve miles from the cabin,
578
00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:39.519
it was probably a hopeless endeavor and he would have
579
00:30:39.559 --> 00:30:43.000
eventually succumbed to the elements. It's just a very tragic
580
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:45.480
situation which could have happened to anyone.
581
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:49.680
I am. I'm just heartsick. When you read that quote
582
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:52.759
from Chris, I can just sense his kind of rage
583
00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:55.359
and anger, which is such a normal part of the
584
00:30:55.400 --> 00:31:01.000
Greevy process, and kind of this just mystified, like unbelievable
585
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.519
circumstance like this is not supposed to happen. It's not
586
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.720
supposed to happen once. It is not supposed to happen once.
587
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.599
There is no reason that Michael should have gone missing
588
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:13.559
that night, right someone knows what happened to him, And
589
00:31:13.799 --> 00:31:17.720
then you have Chucky, who goes and for Chris. You know,
590
00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:20.880
even in Michael's case, family members take on that kind
591
00:31:20.880 --> 00:31:22.359
of guilt and blane, like what if I had gone
592
00:31:22.400 --> 00:31:24.559
to the party, what if I had called him home,
593
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.400
what if I had asked him to hang out with
594
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:29.039
me that night, Right, those kinds of little things like
595
00:31:29.079 --> 00:31:32.920
if one moment had been different, this butterfly effect would
596
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:34.599
have happened, right, and all these other things would have
597
00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:39.279
turned out different too. But oh, man, Chris's statement, it's
598
00:31:39.400 --> 00:31:40.720
just absolutely devastating.
599
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:43.200
And you're talking about the butterfly effect. But we just
600
00:31:43.240 --> 00:31:46.039
talked earlier about as part as their grief, the parents,
601
00:31:46.119 --> 00:31:49.200
Charles Senior and Lisa, wound up getting divorced, and look
602
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.079
what happens. Lisa gets remarried and the two brothers go
603
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:55.200
off together with their new stepfather, and who knows, like
604
00:31:55.240 --> 00:31:57.440
if their parents had gotten divorced, whether they even have
605
00:31:57.440 --> 00:32:00.839
gone on this trip, or whether their father or gone
606
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:02.920
with them. So you have to think this one event
607
00:32:03.079 --> 00:32:05.759
just kind of caused like a downward spiral that changed
608
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.519
everything and they just fell victim just some horrible bad luck.
609
00:32:10.119 --> 00:32:12.440
So you might be wondering why Chucky's body was never
610
00:32:12.480 --> 00:32:15.440
found after an extensive search was performed in the area,
611
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:18.720
but we constantly referenced cases where someone disappears in the
612
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.759
wilderness and no trace of them ever turns up. If
613
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:24.599
you've ever heard our previous episodes about Don Kemp or
614
00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:27.519
Mike Reamer, you'll know that it's not uncommon for search
615
00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:29.519
efforts to turn up empty when they look for a
616
00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:32.640
missing person in an area like this, Yet years later,
617
00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.160
someone just happens to stumble upon the victim's remains. As
618
00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:38.000
it turns out they were there the whole time, but
619
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:41.599
the initial searchers missed them. In many cases, the remains
620
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:44.680
are spread around by animals and scavengers, so the only
621
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:47.599
thing that's found is something small like a jawbone or
622
00:32:47.640 --> 00:32:51.200
a partial skull fragment. It really shouldn't be too surprising
623
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:53.880
that no trace of Chucky was found, but given that
624
00:32:53.920 --> 00:32:56.400
the search for him didn't start for over twelve hours
625
00:32:56.440 --> 00:32:58.640
after he went missing and the area was hit with
626
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.799
heavy snowfall, this might explain why no tracks or footprints
627
00:33:02.799 --> 00:33:05.599
were found in the vicinity of chucky snow machine, so
628
00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.960
they couldn't even figure out which direction he went in
629
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:11.119
after he walked away. We can only hope that someone
630
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:14.480
traveling through that area might come across Chucky's remain someday,
631
00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:17.759
so as family can at least give him a proper burial.
632
00:33:18.160 --> 00:33:20.480
That would be my hope. I mean, like like you
633
00:33:20.519 --> 00:33:23.319
just reference, and we referenced earlier. We've talked about these
634
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:27.160
cases where even when massive surge parties go out and
635
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:32.880
they clear an area, just sometimes debris brush, animal activity
636
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:38.200
can uncover information and have a bone show up that
637
00:33:38.279 --> 00:33:40.519
eventually leads to a discovery of more remains. And so
638
00:33:41.319 --> 00:33:44.359
we've seen that decades later where someone will say, oh
639
00:33:44.400 --> 00:33:46.880
my goodness, it was actually just you know, half a
640
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:49.559
mile from where he was last seen that we find
641
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:52.839
his body. So that is a massive prayer of mind
642
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:56.079
that that happens for this family, because there is such
643
00:33:56.440 --> 00:34:00.160
an important part of having your loved one back in
644
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:03.000
a safe space and in your care and knowing that
645
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:07.920
even though they're deceased, that they are yours again, right
646
00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:09.440
like that, Do you have a place to mourn them?
647
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:11.760
You have a place or a body that can be
648
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:14.039
cremated and you can spread their ashes, You can have
649
00:34:14.079 --> 00:34:16.079
a place where they're buried and you're able to visit.
650
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:19.280
It's it's an honor, it's a respect thing, and it's
651
00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.719
a it's a way to say you're safe. Now, we're safe.
652
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:25.039
Now you know, we know where you are. And so
653
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.360
without that, I think it becomes impossible to start to
654
00:34:29.400 --> 00:34:33.119
find ways to move forward, not on but Ford, because
655
00:34:33.159 --> 00:34:36.480
you're constantly saying, but I have no answers, I have nothing,
656
00:34:36.519 --> 00:34:38.039
and I don't even have their body.
657
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:40.760
I feel like I've said this eight thousand times, but
658
00:34:40.800 --> 00:34:43.559
I always come back to Julie Murray and how she
659
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:47.320
talks about her open ended trauma. Not knowing where more is,
660
00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:52.079
not knowing what tragedy or you know, what heinous act
661
00:34:52.280 --> 00:34:55.039
befel her sister, and not having a place to be
662
00:34:55.079 --> 00:34:58.119
able to go and warn her aside from where they
663
00:34:58.159 --> 00:35:01.639
believe whatever may have trend fired right, and to be
664
00:35:01.679 --> 00:35:04.920
able to go to that site like that's really heartbreaking.
665
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:07.559
You're going to a site where you think perhaps your
666
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:10.239
sister was abducted or maybe got into a car with
667
00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:16.159
somebody who had some kind of, you know, some kind
668
00:35:16.199 --> 00:35:19.719
of impure motives, and then that is the place that
669
00:35:19.760 --> 00:35:22.199
you have to go. You don't have somewhere where her
670
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.239
body lay at rest, or you've scattered her ashes. I
671
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:28.639
just can't even imagine. And then when you multiply that
672
00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:31.920
you've got two brothers in this case, I just feel
673
00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:34.800
sick to my stomach even thinking about what that must
674
00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:38.199
feel like for the family. So there probably isn't a
675
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:41.559
whole lot more to talk about in regards to Chucky's story,
676
00:35:41.960 --> 00:35:44.000
since it seems like it was just a tragic case
677
00:35:44.000 --> 00:35:47.679
of him wandering off and dying of exposure. In spite
678
00:35:47.719 --> 00:35:50.800
of the remarkable circumstances of two brothers from the same
679
00:35:50.880 --> 00:35:55.320
family disappearing over a decade apart, it's safe to assume
680
00:35:55.360 --> 00:35:58.800
there isn't any connection between the two cases. Well, there
681
00:35:58.840 --> 00:36:02.599
are a few eeriesome hilarities, the whole situation is nothing
682
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:06.519
more than a one in a billion coincidence. However, even
683
00:36:06.559 --> 00:36:09.760
though there isn't much mystery in regards to Chucky's disappearance,
684
00:36:10.280 --> 00:36:13.400
the same cannot be said for Michael's case, as there's
685
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:17.639
definitely something very fishy going on there. The details here
686
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:20.679
are a bit reminiscent of our previous episodes about the
687
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:25.159
Kurtsova case, which also involved a teenage boy going missing
688
00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:29.320
while attending a party and partaking an underage drinking. In
689
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:31.920
both cases, you get the sense that there are at
690
00:36:32.039 --> 00:36:34.519
least a few people who are not telling the full
691
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.280
truth about what happened. But unfortunately, it doesn't look like
692
00:36:38.360 --> 00:36:41.360
investigators had very much evidence to work with here.
693
00:36:42.800 --> 00:36:45.360
No, not at all. I mean they do in Chucky's case,
694
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:47.559
there's a lot of information there. They know that there
695
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:49.880
was a problem with the snowmobile, they know that he
696
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.760
was separated from them. They found the snowmobile, and like
697
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:56.239
you said, though, at that point, the weather kind of
698
00:36:56.239 --> 00:36:59.000
becomes their worst enemy, and it became Chucky's worst enemy. Two,
699
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:03.440
that rapid snowfall after his disappearance would cover any kind
700
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:05.920
of evidence and tracks. It also would cover any body.
701
00:37:06.519 --> 00:37:08.559
The one thing that's very odd is that Chucky had
702
00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:11.800
to be wrapped up so tightly with all these warm
703
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:14.440
clothes that would have kept him, you know, dry and
704
00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:17.679
warm in the snow. But and they don't find that either.
705
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:21.159
But with Michael, that one's the one where I go,
706
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:25.800
someone is very knowledgeable of something, right, like who was
707
00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:30.239
around him? Were there any issues at that party? Someone
708
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.920
could have seen a car pull over and speak to
709
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:35.719
this young man. Someone could have watched him walk off
710
00:37:35.760 --> 00:37:38.840
the road and into the woods. I mean, I feel
711
00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:42.199
like there's someone who either intentionally is not telling information
712
00:37:42.440 --> 00:37:46.000
or isn't aware that they witnessed information that needs to
713
00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:50.000
be shared. Because Michael was fifteen years old, he was
714
00:37:50.039 --> 00:37:53.000
supposed to be with a group of friends, he was
715
00:37:53.280 --> 00:37:58.960
drinking underage, like a normal teenage kid does, and I believe,
716
00:37:59.599 --> 00:38:01.400
like I said, but I think he got separated and
717
00:38:01.440 --> 00:38:05.280
became either overwhelmed, scared, convinced that there was a better
718
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:08.840
option for him, and either got in the car with somebody,
719
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:13.400
was met with foul play somewhere, or who knows. I mean, maybe,
720
00:38:13.440 --> 00:38:16.320
like Chucky, he stumbled in the woods, and who knows
721
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:19.119
if someone puts me in his drink, or if something
722
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:22.519
more sinister happened at the party that later affected him.
723
00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.920
I just don't know if I'm inclined to believe, and
724
00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.119
I really want to hear both of your thoughts that
725
00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:30.920
these fifteen year old kids would have been able to
726
00:38:31.000 --> 00:38:35.760
keep a secret if they were somehow responsible or responsible
727
00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:39.119
for disposing of his body in the aftermath, to fifteen
728
00:38:39.159 --> 00:38:42.440
year old kids really have the mental wherewithal to be
729
00:38:42.519 --> 00:38:45.800
able to keep a secret of that magnitude, not only
730
00:38:45.840 --> 00:38:49.760
at that time, but moving forward this many years, it
731
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:53.280
just seems likely to me if they themselves were responsible,
732
00:38:53.400 --> 00:38:56.480
or if somebody at that party was responsible, somebody would
733
00:38:56.480 --> 00:38:57.440
have cracked by Now.
734
00:38:58.800 --> 00:39:01.599
I don't think I don't think they responsible. I'm with you, Joels.
735
00:39:01.679 --> 00:39:04.400
I think they were fifteen. Like we talked about earlier,
736
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:06.679
I think they were isolated on this idea of we're
737
00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.719
having fun, we're being rebellious, we're being adventurous, let's get
738
00:39:09.719 --> 00:39:12.360
around our bikes and go like they're just being kids.
739
00:39:12.679 --> 00:39:15.880
I think someone though, maybe like I said, a witness
740
00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:20.519
or a passer by, or somebody either is not sharing
741
00:39:20.559 --> 00:39:22.599
information out of fear of not wanting to be involved,
742
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:27.719
or doesn't really know that they witnessed something. I don't
743
00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:31.880
see where Michael could just completely disappear and no one
744
00:39:31.920 --> 00:39:34.280
saw this fifteen year old kid after he got separated
745
00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:34.840
from that group.
746
00:39:35.119 --> 00:39:37.079
Well, in the Kurt Silva case, I do know that
747
00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:39.239
there are some people who have likely been able to
748
00:39:39.280 --> 00:39:41.840
keep a secret for several years about what happened to them.
749
00:39:41.880 --> 00:39:44.360
But I think most of those people are grown adults,
750
00:39:44.440 --> 00:39:46.960
because I know Kurt was attending a party with mostly
751
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:50.840
older people, and there weren't fifteen year olds fifteen year
752
00:39:50.840 --> 00:39:53.360
olds there. So yeah, it seems unlikely that people who
753
00:39:53.519 --> 00:39:55.639
are around Michael's age would have been able to stay
754
00:39:55.679 --> 00:39:57.679
silent for over twenty years. Now.
755
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:00.800
I always think of like the you know who put
756
00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:03.440
Belle in the witch Elm case and the kids discover
757
00:40:03.559 --> 00:40:05.880
this body in the tree and they're all, I think
758
00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:09.440
like around teenage age, but like maybe thirteen ish, and
759
00:40:09.480 --> 00:40:11.960
they're all like, making this packed, We're not going to
760
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:14.159
tell anybody, and then by the time one of them
761
00:40:14.159 --> 00:40:15.559
gets home, he spills the beans.
762
00:40:15.800 --> 00:40:16.960
Oh yeah, remember that.
763
00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.000
Yeah, It's like this poor kid just couldn't keep it
764
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.960
in because it would literally torment you. And at that age,
765
00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:26.800
you just don't have the capacity emotionally to be able
766
00:40:26.880 --> 00:40:29.760
to keep a secret like that without it tearing you
767
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:33.159
absolutely to shreds. So I think you're right, Ash. I
768
00:40:33.159 --> 00:40:37.519
think there probably was somebody either opportunistically who spotted him
769
00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:40.400
on the road, or maybe there was somebody at that party.
770
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.239
It was a graduation party, somebody who was in their
771
00:40:43.280 --> 00:40:47.039
early twenties. There's often people in you know, small towns
772
00:40:47.079 --> 00:40:49.519
and stuff. When you've got a graduation party. You've got
773
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.159
those kids that graduated years ago and they're still hanging
774
00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.159
around and they're going to these types of parties. So
775
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:57.840
who knows who may have spotted him and seen an
776
00:40:57.920 --> 00:41:01.920
opportunity Because he was clearly intoxicated, and this wasn't somebody
777
00:41:01.960 --> 00:41:04.639
who was a regular drinker. This was his first time
778
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.639
being exposed to this, So somebody may just decided to
779
00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:10.599
follow the boys and see if there was an opportunity
780
00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:12.039
to take one of them.
781
00:41:12.920 --> 00:41:15.440
All we know is that Michael was biking with three friends,
782
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:18.079
got separated from them and vanished, and all that was
783
00:41:18.119 --> 00:41:21.159
found were his bicycle and his muddy sneakers. Since the
784
00:41:21.199 --> 00:41:25.239
Little Sissitna River was shallow and flowed downstream towards a logjam,
785
00:41:25.440 --> 00:41:27.559
I think it's safe to say that Michael's body would
786
00:41:27.559 --> 00:41:30.159
have been recovered if it had been in there. I
787
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:32.719
know that Chris expressed his belief that the bicycle found
788
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:34.440
in the river may not have been the same one
789
00:41:34.480 --> 00:41:37.320
Michael was riding that night. And what's weird is that
790
00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:40.239
while all the sources I found state that Michael borrowed
791
00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:44.000
the bike, none of them specify who he borrowed it from.
792
00:41:44.320 --> 00:41:46.639
If he borrowed the bike from Chris, then yes, it
793
00:41:46.679 --> 00:41:48.719
would lend more credence to his opinion that it was
794
00:41:48.760 --> 00:41:52.679
a different bicycle. Otherwise, I'm not so sure Chris is correct.
795
00:41:53.280 --> 00:41:55.960
I mean, I guess it's possible that another bicycle could
796
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:59.079
have wound up in that water for completely unrelated reasons.
797
00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:00.880
But it seemed it was like too much of a
798
00:42:00.920 --> 00:42:04.280
coincidence that michael sneakers were found near an airstrip only
799
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.239
two hundred yards from the river. We probably can't be
800
00:42:07.280 --> 00:42:10.320
one hut to percent certain those shoes actually belonged to Michael,
801
00:42:10.559 --> 00:42:13.239
but since they were his brand and his size, they
802
00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:15.960
probably did belong to him. And it can't overlook the
803
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.440
fact that the bicycle and the sneakers were found in
804
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:21.480
such close proximity to each other, you know.
805
00:42:21.559 --> 00:42:23.960
And we also, Chris could be right. Chris could say, hey,
806
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:26.079
that wasn't the bike he took with him, But remember
807
00:42:26.159 --> 00:42:28.800
this is a graduation party. There's a bunch of kids there.
808
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.280
They're all kind of like jumping on their bike after
809
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.320
they've been drinking and riding off. He could have easily
810
00:42:33.360 --> 00:42:37.480
grabbed somebody else's bike. And also, like you said, that
811
00:42:37.519 --> 00:42:39.719
bike was found by those shoes that his family said,
812
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:42.480
Yes that's the brand, Yes that's the size. Those resemble
813
00:42:42.559 --> 00:42:46.440
shoes that Michael had. Remember they were found by that
814
00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:50.400
on that private property by an airstrip. Is there any
815
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:54.320
crazy illusion that someone was on that airstrip and took
816
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:55.000
him from there.
817
00:42:55.599 --> 00:42:58.039
It's possible, like maybe if he got lost and rid
818
00:42:58.039 --> 00:43:00.519
off the road somewhere, then maybe he could have cross
819
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:03.599
passed with someone near that airstrip who decided to harm him.
820
00:43:04.000 --> 00:43:05.880
But of course it was like the middle of the night,
821
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:07.639
like the wee hours of the morning, and I don't
822
00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:09.639
know what the odds are that he would just happen
823
00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:12.320
to cross pass with someone at that random spot at
824
00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.840
that hour of the morning. So if he was harmed,
825
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:17.159
it seems more logical to me that maybe just someone
826
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:19.719
followed him from the party, or someone just happened to
827
00:43:19.760 --> 00:43:22.360
spot a while he was riding alone and took advantage
828
00:43:22.360 --> 00:43:23.079
of the situation.
829
00:43:24.039 --> 00:43:26.840
Yeah, I agree. When I heard about the airstrip and
830
00:43:26.880 --> 00:43:28.800
it's on private property, I was like, wait, how did
831
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:30.719
we get there? But you're right, if someone was simply
832
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.280
following him and he took a short cut across that property,
833
00:43:33.480 --> 00:43:36.000
or if they took him to this private property because
834
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:38.559
they were away from public view, that's a possibility as well.
835
00:43:39.400 --> 00:43:41.760
I always think of I can't remember the killer's name,
836
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:44.639
but the Butcher Baker killer from Alaska, the one that
837
00:43:44.760 --> 00:43:46.800
killed all of those sex workers. Do you both know
838
00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:47.320
that story?
839
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:48.199
Robert Hanson?
840
00:43:48.920 --> 00:43:51.519
I think so. There was a movie about him, see
841
00:43:51.559 --> 00:43:52.719
Nicholas Cage was in it.
842
00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:56.280
Oh was that the one called Frozen Ground? Yeah?
843
00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:57.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
844
00:43:57.480 --> 00:43:59.800
Think that is Robert Hanson. Yeah.
845
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:03.800
He would like fly them in his helicopter or plane
846
00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:06.360
or something like that and then basically hunt them, wouldn't he.
847
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:09.039
I think so, yes, Yes, it was kind of like
848
00:44:09.079 --> 00:44:11.599
a most Dangerous Game scenario where it was part of
849
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:13.719
the fund to like let them go and then try
850
00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:14.800
to hunt them and catch them.
851
00:44:15.679 --> 00:44:17.960
Yeah, it's terrifying. So I thought about that as soon
852
00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.199
as I heard airstrip. But it sounds like the people
853
00:44:20.239 --> 00:44:23.320
whose property were it was on were very quick to
854
00:44:23.320 --> 00:44:25.280
turn over the evidence of the shoes, so it seems
855
00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:28.639
likely that they were not involved, And those sneakers are
856
00:44:28.719 --> 00:44:31.679
definitely the most baffling element to this case for me.
857
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:36.039
If Michael was murdered, it's odd that whoever was responsible
858
00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.400
would get rid of his body, would just leave the
859
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:41.400
shoes out in the open like that. I mean in
860
00:44:41.480 --> 00:44:45.440
cases where many teenagers go missing. The first inclination from
861
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:48.119
the authorities is to push forward the theory that they
862
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:51.519
simply ran away and would turn up eventually. But when
863
00:44:51.519 --> 00:44:54.000
the victim's shoes turn up, then that makes it a
864
00:44:54.039 --> 00:44:57.440
whole lot easier to discount the runaway theory. I have
865
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.039
a feeling that the shoes were deliberately planted at the
866
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:03.079
airstrip for a reason. We know that the son of
867
00:45:03.119 --> 00:45:06.159
the airstrip's owner attended the same party Michael did and
868
00:45:06.239 --> 00:45:09.239
notify the police about the shoes, but no miche else
869
00:45:09.320 --> 00:45:11.880
is known about this person. However, I do have to
870
00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:14.519
wonder if there's any significance to the shoes being left
871
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:16.280
at this particular location.
872
00:45:17.599 --> 00:45:20.360
Yes, me too, I want to know why and how
873
00:45:20.360 --> 00:45:22.519
did they get there. I am not suspicious of the
874
00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:26.239
airstrip owner's son. I mean he I think as a
875
00:45:26.280 --> 00:45:28.159
friend and someone who was at that party. It's like
876
00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:31.800
Michael was wearing those shoes. Michael's missing, and now they're
877
00:45:31.800 --> 00:45:35.000
these weird shoes found on my dad's property. Like, I
878
00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.519
am grateful he went to the police and told them
879
00:45:37.559 --> 00:45:40.280
about it. But like I, like I said, a minute ago,
880
00:45:40.320 --> 00:45:44.480
like what happened did someone watch Michael pedal across this
881
00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:49.280
property and intercept him. Or was it something like you said,
882
00:45:49.440 --> 00:45:52.039
Was it planted? Was it somebody who said, hmm, I'm
883
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:54.360
going to take this bicycle and these shoes and get
884
00:45:54.360 --> 00:45:57.079
them in this location and try to write a new narrative.
885
00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:00.880
So from the outset, it sounds like the Palmer family
886
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:03.920
was always very skeptical about the story from Michael's three
887
00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:06.599
friends that he became separated from them and that they
888
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:08.599
waited around for him a little bit at the seven
889
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:11.679
to eleven, and after assuming that Michael just rode home,
890
00:46:11.800 --> 00:46:15.000
they left. The irony, of course, is that the exact
891
00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:18.280
same thing pretty much happened to Michael's brother a decade later,
892
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:21.400
as he also went missing after becoming separated from a
893
00:46:21.400 --> 00:46:24.320
group of friends. But there's a big difference between an
894
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:27.599
occurrence like this happening in the wilderness and a residential road.
895
00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:30.239
It would not surprise me at all if something did
896
00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:34.039
happen to Michael during or after the party he attended. However,
897
00:46:34.079 --> 00:46:35.800
the big problem is that there seemed to be a
898
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:38.760
lot of rumors and innuendo about things which might have
899
00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:40.960
taken place that night, but no hard.
900
00:46:40.760 --> 00:46:45.039
Facts, And that's the problem with these unsolved these unsolved
901
00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:49.000
missing persons cases, right, is that everyone wants to know,
902
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:52.400
Everyone wants to think, you know, do I know anything?
903
00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:55.519
Can we figure this out? And so especially when you're
904
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:58.800
talking about someone in your town goes missing, that's exactly
905
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:02.880
what starts these these kind of couch detectives that want
906
00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:04.880
to know what happened. And then you had these people
907
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:08.480
like that one kid who made up a truth of
908
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:10.840
what had happened and ended up really just devastating the
909
00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:15.000
family and the investigation because it wasn't true. But this
910
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:18.719
is I don't know, it's just sad. Michael left a
911
00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.719
party where a lot of people saw him and his
912
00:47:21.800 --> 00:47:24.039
mother was waiting for him to come home, and he
913
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:26.800
never showed up. It is mind boggling.
914
00:47:27.000 --> 00:47:30.079
His first party too, like his first taste of freedom
915
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.880
and getting to go out and socialize, and then this happens.
916
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:36.760
It's just so sad. It sounds like two private investigators
917
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:40.199
hired by the Palmer family felt they were onto something
918
00:47:40.280 --> 00:47:42.760
when they looked into the possibility of a cover up,
919
00:47:43.119 --> 00:47:46.880
but no specific details have been released publicly. I see
920
00:47:46.920 --> 00:47:50.159
no indication that any of Michael's friends or anyone who
921
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:53.280
attended the party have been caught in any serious lies,
922
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:56.119
aside from the young man who claimed he saw Michael
923
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:59.480
being murdered and thrown off the bridge before he confessed
924
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:03.079
to making the story up. Investigators did interview a lot
925
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.960
of people who were at that party, but didn't seem
926
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:10.280
to learn anything incriminating. One investigator was even quoted as saying,
927
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:13.599
so far everyone that was listed as a suspect has
928
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:17.760
passed with flying colors. When researching his original Trail Went
929
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:21.280
Cold episode, Robin came across a blog which stated that
930
00:48:21.320 --> 00:48:26.559
the three friends Michael had been riding with were successfully polygraphed. However,
931
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.639
Robin couldn't find any official news source to confirm this,
932
00:48:30.159 --> 00:48:34.760
so that info may be inaccurate. Even so, polygraphs are unreliable,
933
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:38.800
so passing one shouldn't automatically clear anybody. But let's not
934
00:48:39.000 --> 00:48:42.360
forget that all these people were teenagers, who are usually
935
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:45.320
not very adept at orchestrating cover ups and sticking to
936
00:48:45.360 --> 00:48:49.280
their stories. If Michael's death is somehow related to something
937
00:48:49.320 --> 00:48:52.519
which happened during or after that party, I'd have to
938
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:54.519
think that there are a few people out there who
939
00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:55.599
know the full truth.
940
00:48:56.320 --> 00:48:59.800
I would think someone would know at least enough information
941
00:48:59.880 --> 00:49:02.320
to get police looking in the right direction. What is
942
00:49:02.400 --> 00:49:05.280
interesting here is that you have this party, and many
943
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:09.440
ways it probably was a massive distraction to the story
944
00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:11.880
of what really happened as well if it had nothing
945
00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:14.440
to do with the party, and yet all we know
946
00:49:14.519 --> 00:49:16.960
is that Michael was last at this party. It does
947
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:22.519
take incredible manpower and incredible kind of dissection of everybody
948
00:49:22.559 --> 00:49:26.159
who is there, interviewing all of them, trying to dispel
949
00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:28.599
rumors that have started, and like, oh, did you see
950
00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:30.960
so and so looking at him? Did you see so
951
00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:32.920
and so was angry with him that night? Did you
952
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:36.119
see this in that and so? All of those kind
953
00:49:36.119 --> 00:49:39.320
of observations of saying, we know Michael was last here,
954
00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:42.280
and here's what could point to somebody. If that's not
955
00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:46.000
what happened, think of all the energy and manpower and
956
00:49:46.039 --> 00:49:49.320
attention that would have been focused in that direction when
957
00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:51.719
it may not be linked to the party at all.
958
00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:56.039
I don't discount the possibility that Michael's three friends no
959
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:59.119
more than they're saying, but it's not implausible that Michael
960
00:49:59.159 --> 00:50:01.960
really could have become separated from them and then cross
961
00:50:02.000 --> 00:50:05.440
paths with an unknown individual who killed him. How we're
962
00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:07.599
talking about a kid riding a bicycle in the middle
963
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.519
of the night, So he also could have been the
964
00:50:09.559 --> 00:50:11.960
victim of a random hit and run accident and the
965
00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:15.239
perpetrator hit his body to cover up the crime. These
966
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:18.639
are all fairly interesting theories, but no hard evidence points
967
00:50:18.639 --> 00:50:21.280
to any of them. However, the one thing which does
968
00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:24.920
seem certain is that Michael probably did not survive that night.
969
00:50:25.559 --> 00:50:28.280
All families who have a loved one go missing deserve answers,
970
00:50:28.519 --> 00:50:31.280
but this is doubly true for the Palmer family since
971
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:35.119
another sibling would also go missing years later. Even worse,
972
00:50:35.480 --> 00:50:38.079
Chucky himself had become a father by this point and
973
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:42.119
left behind three children. However, well, Chucky's disappearance was likely
974
00:50:42.159 --> 00:50:45.480
nothing more than a case of tragic misfortune. Someone else
975
00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:48.639
may be responsible for what happened to Michael and what
976
00:50:48.840 --> 00:50:51.320
or more. People out there may know exactly what happens
977
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:54.239
but have never talked. So if you have any information
978
00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:57.719
about the unsolved disappearances a Michael Palmer or Chucky Palmer,
979
00:50:58.079 --> 00:51:01.519
please contact the Alaska State true A nine oh seven
980
00:51:01.639 --> 00:51:05.639
seven four five two one three one Jules Ashley any
981
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:06.920
final thoughts on the story.
982
00:51:07.719 --> 00:51:10.920
Basically, what I've been saying this entire case, you have
983
00:51:10.960 --> 00:51:16.440
a family who suffered the unthinkable. They went to bed
984
00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:19.960
one night, woke up and never saw their fifteen year
985
00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:22.320
old child again. They never saw their fifteen year old
986
00:51:22.320 --> 00:51:25.519
brother again. And then they figure out ways to pick
987
00:51:25.559 --> 00:51:28.800
up the pieces. Yes, a marriage dissolves, that happens to
988
00:51:29.000 --> 00:51:32.320
a lot of families, right, But they move forward and
989
00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:35.719
they're trying to make more family memories. A step dad,
990
00:51:35.920 --> 00:51:39.440
a brother, and another brother go out to have a
991
00:51:39.559 --> 00:51:43.360
normal vacation, and like you said, CHUCKI had three little
992
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:45.559
girls waiting at home for him to come back to
993
00:51:45.880 --> 00:51:48.159
and so they just go off on this normal trip
994
00:51:48.199 --> 00:51:53.199
and he never returns home either. What breaks my heart
995
00:51:53.239 --> 00:51:56.159
the most in his case is that they do not
996
00:51:56.360 --> 00:51:59.320
have the remains of either of their boys, and that
997
00:51:59.480 --> 00:52:02.519
leaves the family saying, if they're not with us, where
998
00:52:02.559 --> 00:52:05.639
are they. It would be my prayer that at this point,
999
00:52:05.719 --> 00:52:08.920
I think it's pretty obvious that both boys met their
1000
00:52:08.920 --> 00:52:11.760
demise in the wilderness and or at somebody else's hands.
1001
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:15.000
But if their remains could be found, if there could
1002
00:52:15.079 --> 00:52:18.599
be a space where the family got to say they're
1003
00:52:18.679 --> 00:52:21.320
safe with us, I feel like it would be such
1004
00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:26.000
an incredibly healing experience for the family. Chris is I
1005
00:52:26.039 --> 00:52:29.079
mean as abrasive as his message was that you guys
1006
00:52:29.119 --> 00:52:32.920
shared later, like I feel his anger and his resentment
1007
00:52:33.000 --> 00:52:35.800
and his just disappointments so much. How does this happen
1008
00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:38.639
once to us, much less twice? And now you want
1009
00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:41.039
me to move forward with normal behaviors like eating and
1010
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:44.840
living my life. I mean, my brothers are gone. It's
1011
00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:49.280
so heartbreaking. I pray that Chucky's daughters grew up knowing
1012
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:53.039
how incredible their father was, knowing that you know their
1013
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:56.400
family is strong, and that they are strong, and that
1014
00:52:56.599 --> 00:52:59.519
their life turned out to be beautiful. Because this poor
1015
00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:02.719
little family has been through so much. So if anyone
1016
00:53:02.760 --> 00:53:05.239
knows anything, please please contact authorities.
1017
00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:08.159
This is one of the saddest cases I think that
1018
00:53:08.199 --> 00:53:13.119
we've ever covered, just because of the catastrophic emotional impact.
1019
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:17.119
It's like this ripple effect that has affected the lives
1020
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:20.880
of so many different people, especially when you've got little
1021
00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.920
girls who are in the picture. You've got these little
1022
00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:25.360
kids that are growing up without a father. They're also
1023
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.079
growing up without an uncle. They're being told about this
1024
00:53:28.199 --> 00:53:30.679
uncle that they're never going to get to meet, and
1025
00:53:31.280 --> 00:53:34.679
it seems very clear what happened to Chucky. What is
1026
00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:37.360
inexplicable is that his body has never found. But like
1027
00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:40.760
Robin said, there's been so many cases where somebody's disappeared
1028
00:53:40.800 --> 00:53:43.760
in the wilderness. They've done these extensive searches, they've combed
1029
00:53:43.760 --> 00:53:46.880
over areas, and then an area that's previously been searched,
1030
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:50.400
the body is then found years later, And I hope
1031
00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:53.320
and I pray that that is what happens with Chuck's
1032
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:58.559
remains and with Michael's remains. Michael's case is really confounding
1033
00:53:58.559 --> 00:54:01.519
for me because I really have no idea what happened.
1034
00:54:01.519 --> 00:54:04.000
What I don't think is that these fifteen year old
1035
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.559
kids are responsible. I think maybe they were kind of
1036
00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:10.760
lackadaisical as they were riding their bikes back and maybe
1037
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:15.320
weren't paying attention and Michael either stopped or, like Robin said,
1038
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:18.559
there was a hit and run. So I think it
1039
00:54:18.639 --> 00:54:21.679
is possible that somebody could have followed them from the party,
1040
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:23.519
could have spotted him at the party, could have just
1041
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.760
been opportunistic and came upon him and he was in
1042
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:29.280
this weakened state, and maybe had stopped on the side
1043
00:54:29.320 --> 00:54:31.679
of the road and did him harm. I do think
1044
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:33.840
that the bike and the shoes were placed at that
1045
00:54:33.920 --> 00:54:37.360
airstrip as like a red herring or some kind of misdirection.
1046
00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:40.079
But I would hope that if anybody does have any
1047
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:43.639
information about Michael's case this many years later, that they
1048
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:46.840
would come forward and share what they know, because this
1049
00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:50.519
family deserves so much to find out what happened to
1050
00:54:50.719 --> 00:54:53.840
both of these boys. Well, both of these they would
1051
00:54:53.840 --> 00:54:56.719
be men now, and it's just so sad that they've
1052
00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.960
had to go their whole lives without knowing where their body.
1053
00:55:00.440 --> 00:55:01.840
I'm bringing their remains home.
1054
00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:04.920
Yeah. I can think of many other missing person's cases
1055
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:08.880
where siblings disappear together, where families lose one or more
1056
00:55:08.920 --> 00:55:11.440
members at the same time. But I did a lot
1057
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:14.719
of research and I cannot find very many, if any
1058
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:16.840
other ones like this, where you have two brothers from
1059
00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:19.880
the same family go missing over ten years apart, at
1060
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:23.880
different locations, under different circumstances, and even though there's no
1061
00:55:23.920 --> 00:55:27.559
connection between the two disappearances, there are enough eerie coincidences
1062
00:55:27.599 --> 00:55:30.079
that it just feels like, what has this family done
1063
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:32.679
to deserve this? And of course we have one case
1064
00:55:32.719 --> 00:55:35.559
where if it was just Chucky Palmer, then there really
1065
00:55:35.599 --> 00:55:37.880
wouldn't be much to discuss because we see a lot
1066
00:55:37.880 --> 00:55:40.920
of cases like his every year where people just go
1067
00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:43.599
into the wilderness and vanish and are never found. But
1068
00:55:43.719 --> 00:55:46.000
what made his stories stand out is that he had
1069
00:55:46.000 --> 00:55:49.719
a brother go missing ten years earlier, and his case
1070
00:55:49.800 --> 00:55:52.800
is definitely not as cut and dry, because there's no
1071
00:55:52.880 --> 00:55:55.280
way that Michael just wandered off or fell into a
1072
00:55:55.360 --> 00:55:59.000
river somewhere or died of exposure. It definitely seems likely
1073
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:01.559
that he was victim of foul play, But I have
1074
00:56:01.639 --> 00:56:03.639
no idea who could have done it, and I have
1075
00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:08.440
no idea the circumstances which led to Michael disappearing. We
1076
00:56:08.519 --> 00:56:10.840
have a lot of vague information. I know we heard
1077
00:56:10.920 --> 00:56:13.880
that there was a private investigator who heard some rumors,
1078
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:16.679
and a private investigator who got frightened by what they
1079
00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:19.199
were seeing and decided to leave towns. So you can
1080
00:56:19.280 --> 00:56:22.000
only imagine the rumors and hearsay that have flown around,
1081
00:56:22.079 --> 00:56:24.800
but who knows if any of them are true. But yeah,
1082
00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:27.440
the Palmer family is just very strong to have to
1083
00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:30.360
deal with all this trauma. Like we said, Chucky left
1084
00:56:30.360 --> 00:56:33.960
behind three daughters, and of course Chris he lost two brothers,
1085
00:56:34.320 --> 00:56:37.400
one of whom went missing while he was staying behind
1086
00:56:37.440 --> 00:56:39.440
at the cabin, so it's just too much for one
1087
00:56:39.559 --> 00:56:42.599
family to have to deal with. And at the very least,
1088
00:56:42.639 --> 00:56:45.199
I do hope that Chucky's remains are found someday in
1089
00:56:45.239 --> 00:56:48.119
the woods and that the family does get answers about
1090
00:56:48.119 --> 00:56:50.039
what happened to Michael, because that is more of a
1091
00:56:50.159 --> 00:56:53.440
baffling mystery, and I sense that someone out there may
1092
00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:56.039
know the truth about what happened to them, And all
1093
00:56:56.039 --> 00:56:58.079
I really want is for the Palmer family to get
1094
00:56:58.079 --> 00:57:01.199
the remains back of two of these young men and
1095
00:57:01.320 --> 00:57:02.840
finally give them a proper burial.