Episode 79: Mike Greco

JP: Ask yourself, what happens when the fire you've spent your entire career preparing to fight becomes the very thing that damn near takes your life? When all the air runs out, the exits disappear, and every decision you've made comes crashing down around you. Sometimes the greatest threat to a firefighter isn't the fucking fire, it's the decisions we make inside it. Today's guest knows that reality firsthand. For 23 years, Mike Greco has dedicated himself to the fire service. Following in the footsteps of his father, a 37-year veteran, Mike has served as a volunteer fire chief and now rides ladder one in Hackensack, New Jersey. But somewhere along that journey, the job nearly took everything from him. Trapped inside a burning home, out of air, and facing the possibility of never seeing his family again, Mike experienced every firefighter's worst nightmare. And when asked who was responsible, his answer was simple I'm responsible. In a profession where pride can overshadow accountability, those three words
Michael: Yeah.
JP: carried tremendous weight. Today, Mike co-owns Greco Emergency Logistics with his wife, sharing lessons in firefighter survival, truck company ops, and leadership. His mission is to make the next generation better than the one before it. And when asked what he wishes he'd learned earlier, his answer was equally as powerful. Brotherhood is about the bad times, not the beers. Because the brother who's brother is measured Not by who's standing beside you when everything is going good, but when everything is going bad. But before we get started, ask yourself one last thing. If the worst decision of your career became your last, would your legacy be defined by the firefighter you claimed to be or the firefighter your actions proved you were? Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the passionate leader, Mike Greco.
Michael: What's up, bro? Thank you for the the pretty nice introduction right there. Thank you very much. I don't think I deserve it, but thank you very much.
JP: Yeah. Well, i in and it's everybody's humble. I I I think I can I there's nobody that's ever like, man, you could have been more 'cause right, dude, there are stories and I in starting this I have found that everybody is so damn humble that when it they're like, yeah, I'm a fireman. I did some fireman things, right? But I I I've I've listened to your stories and and stuff like that, right?
Michael: Let's not get it, let's not let's let's not get it twisted right off the bat. I'm a fucking
JP: Yeah.
Michael: savage maniac at fires. Everybody knows it. This in particular time, and I am cocky and I am a loudmouth, and I am from New Jersey, and it is what it is. It is what it
JP: That explains everything.
Michael: is. And everybody who knows me knows that. This one in particular time, there was two in particular time, but this one in particular time it was one hundred percent my fault and ended up being the worst one of them all. And yeah, I must have got fucking whacked up in that place. Two years ago. Yeah. Yeah.
JP: Yeah, dude. Wha walk us. So I mean, we've I think what's really neat, dude, is I mean, your dad was a fire a firefighter too. So that that shit's pretty cool. And like I'm I'm likely gonna be a one off in unless my daughter wants to go in the fire service. But my son, right now, he's more into hockey. He's he's the closest to becoming an adult. He's 17. you
Michael: Right. Right.
JP: know, and he's he's sh expressed a minimal like in the fire service. And I really don't care what the kid does. I mean as l as long as whatever he does he's happy with and he's he stays passionate and he stays true to his his life's mission. That's not all I care
Michael: Mm-hmm.
JP: that either of the kids do. you know, so that that's that's cool. dude, absolutely. What what ages?
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. I got three and it is what it is. Yeah. God. Eight, six and two. I hear them upstairs right now. And my wife my wife is t bathing them and putting them in bed all by herself. So she's she's got the she's got the brunt of the the whole thing. Plus
JP: Good for her, right?
Michael: the plus the business stuff on top of it. So she's
JP: Yeah.
Michael: she's got a work cut out for tonight, that's for sure. But
JP: No, that's that's awesome. so for those that had that do not know, have not had the ability to read your bio that I have on my back end, give us a quick overview of of you know what got you in the fire service and and what, you know, what
Michael: Sure.
JP: is you're so passionate about.
Michael: So you know, well I'm passionate about I'm passionate about everything in the fire service. You know, we could go through the fucking alphabet A to Z, and I'll
JP: Yeah.
Michael: give you I'll give you a word of of either an issue I got or a tool or a tactic or whatever. I got into the fire service at 16 years old as a junior firefighter in my volunteer fire department. I'm still there. I got there at 16 years old and now I'm 41.
JP: Mm-hmm.
Michael: my father got on Hasbro Kite's fire department in 1974. So he was on also my uncle was with him in Hasbro Kites and
JP: Mm.
Michael: I grew up with my father being a hardcore volunteer fireman and I got to watch all that unfold. And he was he ended up being chief of the Hasbro Kites fire department and they went to fires like
JP: Mm.
Michael: regularly. And this is like I would say in the late 80s and nineties, going to fires around here, it wasn't an event. I feel like fires now are in a fucking event, right? Like it's like it's an event. Like we need a mutual aid and we're gonna need this guy and that guy and you know, we're we're gonna need the dog walker son come down here with the rack doing it and all of that.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: Back then they did like an all hands. They would do with two and one and then they have the mutual aid stand by in a firehouse and shit. Like so that's how it was back then. Now it's not really like that anymore. And and that's cool, you know, the the development of fast companies and all that other stuff and
JP: Sure, sure.
Michael: All of that stuff. But you know, I've a I have a whole I have a different opinion than most people about fast companies, but you know, but yeah, you know, I became passionate because I my father was really passionate about the job. So I watched him go through it. especially when he was chief. So I watched him and everything he did and everything those guys did back then and it was just normal. You I don't know, you know what I mean? Like their behavior and the
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: way that they operated. It was normal where today people look at it as they use the word aggressive and I I just wanna delete that word out of the dictionary or something like that, 'cause it's just like
JP: Ooh, okay.
Michael: I just wanna delete it out of the dictionary. I have so many issues with the fire service. my god.
JP: Go go go on that for a little bit because a lot of people like I I and and I I'm not saying that I use the word aggressive a lot, but I think I think some have we're trying to bring it back where it's an accepted word because a lot of for lack of a better phrase, the old the old duffers, they don't like that word aggressive because they think it it leads to that, you know, that uncalculated decisions and things. So you know what I mean? Like
Michael: Yeah, yeah. They all see some of the some of the older, older guys, they're like, we don't like the aggressiveness. And these are the same fucking guys are on the back step drunk in nineteen seventy-four. So I don't want to hear it. I you you're not getting it past
JP: Right.
Michael: me. You got you guys, you know who you are, you seventies fireman. My dad was one. You're
JP: Yeah.
Michael: not getting it past me because I was the kid that watched you guys hammer on the back step.
JP: Right.
Michael: I wanted to be one of you, all right? So stop it. Stop it with the safety laws and I enough. Enough.
JP: dude, ain't man.
Michael: Listen, safety is important for certain things. The word aggressive needs to come to a screeching fucking halt. There is
JP: Mm.
Michael: nothing in this world, right, as far as working structural fires. You're rolling up in a 75,000-pound vehicle with a ladder on the top of it, and they give you a tool specifically to smash windows out with it. And then they give you a saw to cut a hole in the roof with it. And we're gonna go ahead and say the word aggressive about something else. The entire job's aggressive. From putting my leather
JP: I like it.
Michael: helmet on from putting my leather helmet on to leaving the firehouse, lights and sirens to getting there, the whole thing is aggressive. What the fuck are you talking about? So
JP: Ooh.
Michael: what what I s what I think might be aggressive is, is if I have a parked car in the way of a hydrant and I hit the car and push it up the street, we might call that aggressive. Or when I come out of the when I come out of the fire building and a cop has a problem and I tell him to go fuck himself, we could call that aggressive. But the act of starting a line into a f building fire in a trunk up the truck company doing a primary search ahead of the line, that's not aggressive. That's called doing your job.
JP: Mm. Dude, I appreciate that take. I I really do because I think, yeah, man.
Michael: The fuck I I I've been meaning to say that you like I'm glad I'm having this conversation with you because I've been meaning to get this out for quite a while. I say it in my in my lectures, I say it all the time.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: Like, yeah, you know, and I and I've I've heard it come out of people on like the internet, like, aggressive an aggressive search is searching ahead of the line. No, that's actually not what it is. It's called a primary search. We're just look we're looking for some people. What the fuck are you talking about? Aggressive, what I I don't the the word needs to be deleted.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: And we just need to start, we just need to start saying, Yeah, we're we're we're we're gonna do a primary search. They did a primary
JP: Yeah.
Michael: search on the first floor ahead of the line, found the victim, and put told pulled the victim out before they knocked down the fire. We don't need to use the whole there's all these adjectives. Heavy smoke condition, heavy fire, aggressive,
JP: Sure. Yeah.
Michael: cowboy, all these adjectives. Shut the fuck up, just do your job. It's it, sit, bro. Let's go. What are we doing? Let's go.
JP: Dude, I you get me bricked up, man. This is good. I I I love it because I think one of the biggest problems in the fire service today is we're trying to glorify the and we have a pretty fucking cool job, but that's it. That's
Michael: Yeah.
JP: where that's where it stops, right? Like we're trying to turn everything into these buzzwords. And and I I say this. That I I have a buzzword as a in a bottom feeder, but it it it's
Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that one.
JP: you know, it it is it's it's part of the creed. And you know, when we when we sign off after the show's over, you'll you'll hear it and stuff. But it's we are we're so it's like I said, we have to have like that catchy like fucking buzzword that just
Michael: Yeah.
JP: and it's like like you said, man, yeah, we're we're not being aggressive. We're doing our job. And and it's yeah, it
Michael: Just do I'm just doing my job. That that's it. And I'll have I'll have certain guys again, I'm 41 years old. I'm not like 18. And I'll have
JP: Right, right.
Michael: certain guys like, Jesus, my God. my God. And I'm like, I'm just doing what I watched my dad do in like 1989. I don't know what you guys thought
JP: Yeah.
Michael: the problem is. And a lot of guys will look at it. A lot of people are intimidated. A lot of people aren't in good enough shape to still do the job. A
JP: Right.
Michael: lot of people shouldn't be in the job to begin with. A lot of people got into it for the wrong reasons. And then now you throw into a situation where they'll look for any which reason not to do something. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: at a fire or at an emergency, I'm looking for every which reason to do something. Okay? And you know the guys who I'm talking about. If you go
JP: Yeah.
Michael: to a fire, right? And there's a guy with the camera like this, they love the camera, don't they? They love the
JP: yeah.
Michael: Well, on the camera, it says it doesn't show any
JP: Yeah.
Michael: Hey, cuz, hey, cuz we put about 2,000 gallons of water in here. Let's just
JP: Right.
Michael: take the ceilings down, trim the windows, open the walls up, put the camera down. The room is destroyed already. I I have news for everybody watching this. Once you decided to charge that line and open that line onto sheetrock, the room is gonna be gutted. I can promise you. I've gutted rooms before. The room's gonna be gutted. So
JP: Mm-hmm. Right.
Michael: why don't we just drop the ceiling? Trim the windows, open the walls in the fire area, not do undue damage, but open the place up like you were taught and and hit it with the line. I don't understand where all of this stuff is coming from lately. you know, lack of ventilation, lack of I I don't I don't get it, bro. I don't get it. And I think I think a lot of people don't understand the job. I really, really
JP: Yes.
Michael: not it's not good. It's not good.
JP: Well, and and I think I think again, everybody wants to be, they want to be like that next big name in the circuit. And they spend
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: more time focusing on that bullshit than they do actually being a master
Michael: Yeah.
JP: of the craft. And I'll be the I'll be the first one to tell you. I I watched some of the videos that you sent, and I'm you know, I'm watching you, you know, use the ladder to vent and everything. And I'm like, you know, that's pretty damn cool. Cause I don't operate on a ladder company. I I'm I'm a deputy now, but you know, we in our department, we are we're a small combination department. And we d our our aerial devices, if we need to get up high, we're calling a neighboring town because the neighbors have it. so we don't
Michael: Right, right, right.
JP: do that shit. So I'm like, you know what? I like that. That's that's
Michael: Yeah.
JP: out of the box thinking, right? Like, you know, me.
Michael: You know what? It's it's not even it's not out of the box. And and I and I say this all the time, and I have a very big problem with a lot of fire instructors out there. And a lot of fire instructors have a big problem with me. And I'm gonna tell you why. Here's why.
JP: 'Cause you're open and fucking honest.
Michael: Here's why. This job, there was a period of time from nineteen sixty eight to nineteen eighty in the FDNY. It was called the fucking Warriors, right?
JP: Mm.
Michael: They call it the Warriors for a reason. Can we all figure that out? Because they went to the most fires ever. Per capita ever. There's nothing to beat it. Maybe it's Detroit a little bit. And in those
JP: Mm.
Michael: times in the war years in New York City Fire Department, they figured this job out. This was all figured out from A to Z. So you could look at photos, you see guys taking windows with aerial ladders in 1970. All of
JP: Mm.
Michael: these tactics that that people call ghetto, or they call them aggressive, or they call
JP: Yeah.
Michael: them whatever they want to call them. The all of these tactics were being done by World War II veterans, which were
JP: yeah.
Michael: those people were gentlemen, by the way. My grandfather was one. So all those tactics were being done by gentlemen in the war years, in the busiest time that there was to be a fireman, where they had the tactics perfected. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: people now see it and they're like, wow, that's aggressive. No, it's not. This has been going on for fifty years. Where the fuck you been? Have you opened up a book? Like John Norman, John
JP: Yeah.
Michael: Norman's John Norman's fire handbook, John Norman's, and this is the best part about it. Guys want guys want to read books to get promoted, but they don't want to read books to be a fireman. John Norman's fire officer
JP: dude, that's a good one.
Michael: hand John Norman's fire officer handbook attack. It's not an officer, but it says it that ventilation can be done quickly, easily, and safely with the aerial device, basically if you know how to do it. He says that in so many words. so where I come from, me and neighboring departments by us. That happens. And you gotta know what you're doing. You gotta practice
JP: Mm.
Michael: on how to do it. We use we use cones. You know, you just take a cone, put it on the roof line someplace and just touch the cone with the tip of the arrow. You know, you gotta be careful. You gotta know what you're doing. You can't just do it out of nowhere. And you gotta know you gotta
JP: Yeah.
Michael: time it right. You know, you gotta make sure there's and that's the other thing. Like I'm not I'm not going out there teaching reckless and I'll give we'll use the word reckless. Maybe we could use the word reckless, right? So going around breaking every fucking window before you have water in the line could be considered reckless, okay?
JP: Mm.
Michael: So we'll call that reckless, but there's a big difference. There's ventilation for life and there's ventilation for fire. They come up with these things like 50 years ago.
JP: right. Yeah.
Michael: And I don't understand where we took our basics and we've pushed them to the side. And we're actually, I believe, in my opinion, this is just Mike Reco's opinion. I feel like we're making this shit more dangerous than it needs to be. I I really believe.
JP: Mm.
Michael: I really, truly, truly believe it. And it takes one to know one. I had all I've I've almost gotten fucking killed. And I
JP: Right.
Michael: I kind of know what it's like a little bit to like be on that last breath where it's like, Jesus Christ, this is gonna be the end.
JP: Mm.
Michael: And I really think that we have taken safety and put it so far in front that we're forgetting how dangerous this fucking job really is. And I I
JP: Yes,
Michael: I I mean, I'm being dead serious. Like
JP: Mm.
Michael: my my father and all these old school guys will tell you, yeah, we didn't wear hoods. Yeah, we would feel burns on our ears. We knew we were a little bit too deep. Or yeah, you know, our cylinders weren't that good back then. And they had an elephant trunk that they would put into their coat. And they they they had all sorts of ghetto tactics that they would do, but they weren't ghetto.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: It was just it was common sense tactics and guys weren't getting like we have guys all the time now getting twisted up and turned and turned around and lost and burnt up and everything, including myself. I feel like
JP: Mm.
Michael: it happens more now than ever. And we have more training now than ever. Like this this podcast, for instance, somebody could come on here and learn something, you know. So
JP: Yeah, absolutely.
Michael: I go out when I when I go out and I do my lectures. I I when I started my business, I did not want to be a fire training company. I did not. I called it a consultant company, the logistical
JP: Okay.
Michael: company, because you want to know what? I am I'm fully insured. I've I'm overly insured for what I do. Which insurance is very expensive, by the way. Some guys go out there and teach and they don't have it. I don't know why, but I have it.
JP: Mm.
Michael: but I want to be able to operate under my First Amendment right. I don't want to have to operate under what some type of state or division or whatever the fuck is telling me to say. Because in fact, a lot of their stuff, I believe, is actually detrimental to the public and a fireman to to the same. I believe. Not
JP: Mm.
Michael: all of it, but a big part of it is.
JP: Yeah, well, and
Michael: y you know, that's just how I feel about
JP: dude, spot on because I we are such a risk averse service now. You know, and like you said, we and and I
Michael: Yes. Correct.
JP: think we've gotten so risk averse, and it's so funny. I just had this conversation with my fellow deputy was in today, and he surprised me. He's like, I he goes, I go, JP, I don't like mission statements. And he goes, I think he goes, I think they're full of catchy buzzwords. And now, mind you, my fellow deputy, he is He's in his sixties. So he he is not a spring chicken. And for him
Michael: Right. Right.
JP: to say something, he he is he is the anomaly because I for, and I still believe this myself, that there should be an an age restriction in the fire service or but he he
Michael: One hundred percent. One hundred percent.
JP: is one of the anomalies that because when I was talking with him about it, because he listens to the show and he'll listen to it when we drop it. And I know for a fact he's gonna have things to say, you know, you know, not not as not critiques in a bad way, but he'll have his own thoughts and in, you know, add you know, additions
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
JP: to it. he's like, you know, JP, if we have an age restriction, I'd be gone. And immediately I'm like, Mm. And he's like, You can't have your cake and eat it too. Like you, you have you you know, it and and he I'm like, dude, you're not wrong. And yeah.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there was a bunch of there was a bunch of guys in my career, I wish I they they could be ninety years old and do the bet do the job just good,
JP: Yes.
Michael: you know. But you know, it's it's there's also, you know, and it's I see it out in the teaching world all the time, man. Some guys are old and great and some guys are older and horrible. And but I don't even
JP: Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: think it's an age thing. I think it's they were just that way their entire time and now it's just more evident. You know what I mean?
JP: That's a good point. Right. And and I think I think sometimes I look at it from a viewpoint of there's just there's just some guys, I'm like, man, it's time to retire. Like, go and enjoy your life. You know, I mean, how many times have we seen you probably see it far more than I do with guys that they retire
Michael: All time.
JP: and then all of a sudden their health just goes to shit as soon as they retire because, you know, it's like you waited too freaking long or something. I don't know.
Michael: You you know what it is? It it's it's I see both sides of it. I see both
JP: Mm-hmm.
Michael: sides of it. So I have got I've seen a bunch of guys retire at the twenty-six year mark, twenty-seven year mark. They retire and I see them six months later, they actually look younger. Cause
JP: Mm.
Michael: when you're going on runs and not sleeping through the night like ever, and you know, getting
JP: Mm yeah.
Michael: your body beat up and all of this, and just you it it takes a lot out of you. So they look younger, and then other guys They waited to retire until it was sixty-five. And then unfortunately a a few of them got cancer and you know their health
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: went to shit or whatever. And you know, I I t let me tell you what, the the there's I gotta tell you, there's two people that live in a funeral home more than anybody. That's the guy who owns a funeral home and fireman. I gotta tell you something. We we are in a fucking funeral home every day. I you know, I I I know
JP: Dude, well put. Yep. Yep.
Michael: the funeral homes by what candies they got, you know, like Gentils and Hackins Act, they where there's The Costca has the fucking star the Starburst in there. I know them up by the candies. Like Yeah, yeah. We like and it ha bro, it's and it's it's horrible.
JP: Jesus, right, dude. That sucks.
Michael: And then we l we ended up losing a lot of really good I've lost a lot of really good young, young guys to cancer too on my department. and it's and it's
JP: Mm.
Michael: it's it's taking a bite out of us really bad, you know. But yeah.
JP: yeah, for sure for sure. And and I think I it and again it we kind of bring that back to the the risk averse versus risk aware. And I think sometimes people are just more susceptible to to to you know having cancer actually flare up in their bodies. You know, they they I I am not I'm not a medical dude,
Michael: Correct. That is so true. That is so true.
JP: but they you know they say that the ki you know, cancer is in all of our bodies. It's a matter of what what that trigger is that it's like, hey, here I hit surprise, shoddy, here I am, type shit, right?
Michael: Yeah. I I one one guy that passed away from cancer. We we we looked into it because we had we had a stretch of about a six to seven year time that we were losing a guy almost every year from cancer. So we're
JP: God damn.
Michael: like, all right, let's look into this, what's going on? And the one guy, it was like I hate to say the word bad luck, but it was like it was like a hereditary type cancer pass through,
JP: yeah.
Michael: whatever. So it's not always from the job, but we have a lot of guys from from my job that are from nine eleven. That's still going on, you know, nine
JP: Yep, yep.
Michael: eleven related nine eleven related cancers. So we still have that going on by us. the the the last one that we just did, retired Lieutenant Walker, he was he was a nine eleven related cancer and he passed away. He that guy was
JP: Yeah.
Michael: that guy was a fucking beast. That guy was sixty five years old. I could not keep up with him at a fire. It was awesome. I love working like that guy. Straight monster, straight monster.
JP: No shit. That's that's right. Yeah. Absolutely.
Michael: And then and there's other guys, and I say it all the time, you really should be at on a you should be wearing a Hawaiian t shirt in Florida on the fucking beach and stop, stop. Just just stop because I said
JP: Yep, yep.
Michael: it in my other podcast, we got a bunch of firemen that are a bunch of sled dogs here, and they want to run in the snow like wild animals. Just let them fucking go. Stop
JP: Yeah.
Michael: trying to hold back all these sled dogs. All right. So
JP: Yeah.
Michael: if you don't want to be a sled dog, then go on the beach, which is the opposite of fucking snow, and put on a Hawaiian t shirt and have a nice day. So we we we got it and this is why people want me to go out and do comedy and shit because the stuff just it's just easy to come up with. It just rolls, bro.
JP: It just rolls. I love it, dude. No, it's great.
Michael: I and it cause it's just and you roll up to some fires and sometimes everybody's on the same page as you and sometimes they're not. And you know, it's just I got a job to do. If you call me for a working structure of fire, we get there,
JP: Mm.
Michael: there's a fire, the job's gonna get done. And I'm s very sorry, but when you have a fire. In your jurisdiction or borough or municipality, whatever you want to call your city, whatever, if you have a room on fire, whether you like it or not, that room is gonna get fucking wrecked. The windows are gonna get broken, the room's gonna get gutted,
JP: Yeah.
Michael: there's gonna be water all over the place. We are now in the fire service. I am seeing a huge shift with property conservation, which is important. It is very
JP: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Michael: important, but not at the expense of my life. You understand what I'm saying?
JP: Yes, absolutely. One hundred percent. Yep.
Michael: So not at the expense of me. So I, you know, and that and I'm an example of that going into an illegal occupancy, which is where I almost got killed. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: be it was an illegal occupancy, which was the big well, that was like the biggest issue with that fire. And not expecting that I had a three bedroom apartment on the second floor of a fucking garage. You you know what I mean? So
JP: Yeah.
Michael: like that whole thing, like a lot of times and you know, I had a great senior man I worked for.
JP: Mm.
Michael: And he goes, This is the fire service kid. We kill mosquitoes with sledgehammers in this fucking place. And and and
JP: Ha ha ha.
Michael: I'm like, Yeah, bro, let's go. Because in the I they the guys that taught me the job, my fire department Hack and Zach had five firemen get killed in July 1st, 1988. So the guys who taught me the job were firemen that were at that fire. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: you want to talk about guys that were dialed in. These
JP: Yeah.
Michael: guys were dialed in. The education. They were physically in shape. You name it. These dudes were ready to go to a fire at all times. Didn't matter how old any one of them were. They
JP: Mm.
Michael: were squared away. They could be an absolute drunken maniac on their day off, rall call 0800 hours, like like like the military, bro. And and we
JP: So cool.
Michael: I had a senior man, he goes, Hey, bro, we're not washing a truck. You know what? Don't worry about washing a truck at all. And I but and I was a probio. I'm Yeah, we're we don't wash the truck. You go, I ain't never seen no dead fireman from a fucking dirty fire truck. We'll go outside and put the 35-foot ladder up. We're gonna do it like a hundred times. You know, and that that was the mentality. And that's how I that's how
JP: Sure.
Michael: I got brought up. And then you'll go to a fire supper. I I like to buff fires. I I'm a I'm a huge bumper
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: to job. So I'll go buff a fire and I'll see a beautifully waxed, perfectly waxed fire truck with people that cannot get ladders up. I see
JP: Mm-hmm.
Michael: all sorts of deficiencies. And you know what's fucked up, bro? In the fire service, I don't think there's any bad people out there. I think we're all genuinely good people. I just
JP: Mm.
Michael: think that a lot of us are misdirected. Does that make any sense? Like, like just
JP: dude, absolutely. Yep.
Michael: misdirected. Misdirected. And that goes with all ages too, older and younger. Just
JP: Mm.
Michael: misdirected. And I come in and I try my best to direct guys into the job is fire. It's fire. It's fire. It's fire. It's not sp. All these other little things are important, yes, but the job
JP: Yes.
Michael: is fire. So we're gonna worry about fires first and then everything else is gonna come second. That's how we're gonna do this. And that's how
JP: Yeah.
Michael: I try to teach a job. You know, that my my one.
JP: Dude, I I love the perspective because I we're not as busy of a house, but we'll you we'll see people like, you know, the rigs are dirty. You the you the the old fashioned fucking if there's time to lean, there's time to clean type shit. Like but I dude,
Michael: Yeah, yeah, no.
JP: I I love the thought process of if there's time to lean, there's time to fucking, you know, go there's time to train. Apps of fucking Lully. That's a great mentality.
Michael: Time to train. I mean, we we train, we train, we train every morning. Mondays are for roof rope. That's that's is what it is.
JP: Yep.
Michael: Like Monday's roof rope is getting done at five o'clock. We work out as a as a as a crew. So my I work in headquarters. So I have ladder one, rescue one, and engine four, and a deputy.
JP: Okay.
Michael: We we work out as a crew at five o'clock. And I'm not telling everybody they got to be a big fitness guru. I'm not that guy. There's other guys for that, but
JP: sure. Yeah.
Michael: but I'll give you the fitness part in one sentence. The shit is not getting any lighter and I'm not getting any younger. So that's why I stay in shape. Just keep it f let's just keep the shit simple. And I like going to fires. I'm on a volunteer
JP: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right.
Michael: fire department and I'm a career and I'm a career fireman. So I like going to fires. I went to a fire yesterday. So that's my other point with all this. If you haven't gone to a fire in like quite a while, I don't know what the fuck these guys are doing out there instructing people. And I I'm watching
JP: Mm.
Michael: it. So I'm gonna go do a lecture, right? I'm going to work tomorrow morning. I pray to God we go to fire. Really. I love I love going to fire stuff all these years later.
JP: sure. Yeah, exactly.
Michael: But I'm gonna go do a lecture next week on upstate New York. And I could reference a fire and I could say, Yeah, well, okay, I went to a fire here and they're gonna be like, Well, when did that happen? I went to that job like three, four days ago. And
JP: Mm.
Michael: I'm seeing instructors around the country that do not have the fire duty experience anymore. And and they're coming up with stuff that they read someplace. And
JP: Yes.
Michael: They read it and they think it's they think it's gospel. And Finan Pressler from Rescue Three, his quote is Knowledge without experience is just theory. Knowledge
JP: Yes.
Michael: without experience is just theory. And he's a hundred percent right. You know, just because you read it in a book don't mean it's it's gospel, you know.
JP: It well in and I think I think a what I've seen a lot from some people is look I I I said it w you know offline as we were, you know, just shooting the shit, you know, by way of text that, you know, I I come up with hot takes. I I think some in I look at it is some some take offense to it. Now there's a there's a fine line between like I can say something that you take offense to, but I can't offend you. It's it's up to you. To psychologically, like, wait a minute, what JP just said really pisses me off. And then the second step is how are you gonna handle that? Are you gonna talk to me like a human being and a man? Or
Michael: Thank you. Yeah.
JP: are you gonna be a bitch and you're gonna run away? And Yeah. Ugh.
Michael: Literally had a three hour lecture on that. I I'm getting booked. I I actually had a fire department, it's on my it's on my website, bro. I had a fire department book me for truck tactics. And then they saw that it's called Enthusiasm in the Fire Service, and it goes through all of this type of shit. Like,
JP: Yeah.
Michael: like it goes through all the girly shit and
JP: Yep, yep.
Michael: all all of the issues and this and that. And like, actually, wait, can we have you come in for that one? Like the it's it's called.
JP: Well I see.
Michael: It's called l just because fires are down shouldn't be a lack of enthusiasm too. And
JP: yeah.
Michael: I go over everything mental health, the people talking shit, how we have fights, how I believe having a fight is healthy. You know, I I
JP: Yeah. absolutely.
Michael: think I and I'm I am not advocating for having fist fights, no violence, but I am advocating
JP: Right. Right.
Michael: that we are a bunch of testosterone driven animals. I mean, really. So you
JP: Animals is a great way to put it. Yep.
Michael: You're talking to people that are willing to jump through a window of a burning building to do a primary search. Okay. And now we're gonna say we're not gonna you're gonna have a problem with one another. And now you're gonna go and you're gonna go on group me, or you're gonna go on WhatsApp, or you're gonna go on a text message with certain friends and not that guy, and you're gonna talk shit over the phone. So
JP: yeah. Right.
Michael: me, we can call it the word we could now we could circle back as as the professional world says that we could circle back.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: And we could say Mike's aggressive because Mike went up to my because Mike went up to my face and said, What you got a fucking problem? Now back when I watched my and I always go back to my father, back when I watched my father and those guys be firemen, when one of them would go up to one another and be like, Yo, what the fuck? That wasn't aggressive. That was just how they handled business because they didn't have cell phones.
JP: Yes, I said.
Michael: No phones, they didn't have no Facebook, no Instagram, no keyboard
JP: Right, right.
Michael: cowboys, none of that none, none of that existed back then. So When I have a problem, let's just say I do text some bullshit. It's nothing that I would not say to the person's face. And everyone and there's people
JP: Mm.
Michael: out there that hate my guts, let me tell you. But everyone out there will tell you that they have no problem going to fire with me and they know that I'm gonna come right to their face with it. Because
JP: Mm.
Michael: you you have no choice. You you like even if
JP: Yes. Yeah.
Michael: I don't like the guy, say if I let's just say you and I are working together tonight and we hate one another, that don't
JP: Sure.
Michael: matter. I'm still responsible for your fucking life at the end the day. So I'ma
JP: for sure. yeah.
Michael: go up to you and be like, hey, yo, cuz I got a problem with you, and here's fucking why. And let's figure this out right now because we're working together tonight. You you know what I mean? And let's and you find out when you do that, when you
JP: Mm.
Michael: face the when you face your problem head on with that guy, you find common ground way faster than the cell phone thing.
JP: Yes, yes.
Michael: I got I got friends that haven't talked to one another in fucking years over stupid cell phone arguments. It's wild. It's
JP: It
Michael: it's wild.
JP: it it I I can tell you that I have and it's so funny because I'll get I'll get accused of being satire. I I put something out a while back that it was it was a video of of a of a department's, you know, recruit school or whatever it was. And I'm like, you know, there's di it was my take on it. And that's that's my opinion. And some loved
Michael: Right. Right.
JP: it, some hated it. some felt that they needed to attack back, and I'm like, so I started actually trying to engage in dialogue with these. Like, like, where like explain to me where this works. Cause all I could get was people just yelling and and name calling that, you know, that I was stupid and I had no idea and I don't go to enough calls and blah fucking blah. But nobody could actually back it up with facts. So I'm like, back it up with f if you prove me wrong, I will happily in in front of the world eat the crow. And and I'll tell you, man,
Michael: Yes. One hundred percent. One hundred percent.
JP: there there is nothing better than. When two people have a disagreement and they talk it out and that it it's that euphoric feeling of after, it's like, all right, we're good. We had a disagreement.
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: Mike and I are now on the same page and we're gonna move forward with each other. But but people
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: can't because because again, social media in the world, it makes it so h so easy for people to hide behind that keyboard, to hide behind this camera
Michael: my God.
JP: and
Michael: It's and you know what though? Like the people with balls are you and I because we're on here and we're we're
JP: Right. fuck yeah, and we're gonna have the conversation.
Michael: we're putting ourselves out there. So what I find is if you never put yourself out there, you'll never be in a position to be criticized. And I had a senior man tell me that years ago. Well, if you if when we when when we go to fires, if you don't put yourself out there to get into that spot, and he used to say get into the spot, meaning like you know, get with the actions, get to the spot. If you don't if
JP: Right, right.
Michael: you don't if you don't go out there and get yourself into the spot, well then you're never gonna have to worry about getting criticized. You're never gonna have to worry about
JP: Yeah.
Michael: not being the best guy. You could just hang back. And that's what go
JP: Absolutely.
Michael: that's what goes on in the firefighting world with all the the guys
JP: yeah.
Michael: with the comments and all that stuff. But I read some of the comments and I just laugh, bro. And I and I'm like, man, and and what I what I like to do is I tell people all the time, I I'll just comment, when was your last fire? Mine was this date. And then I put the date.
JP: Sure, sure.
Michael: When was your last fire? Mine was this date. Mine was this that date. Mine was this box. What like? And you you
JP: Sure, sure.
Michael: you'll find you'll find out that there's a lot of guys that are not going to fires. And I don't believe me, I don't go to enough fires. I'll tell you right now. But guys that don't go to fires are fucking frustrated with themselves. They're not really frustrated with you or what
JP: Mm.
Michael: you have to say. They're frustrated with themselves and they'll find some content that you put up.
JP: That's a good to put it.
Michael: And they'll they'll find they'll find the fucking problem with it because they're mad at like that their life is not what they expected it to be. And that's where the
JP: Something else.
Michael: the class about the enthusiasm thing. I go into all of that about when runs are down and fires are down, how to act to get yourself through that hump. And
JP: Yeah.
Michael: you know, sometimes you gotta like pretend to be a fireman a little bit, you know. Like
JP: sure, yeah.
Michael: like if like just because it isn't on fire doesn't mean that we can't pretend that this building is on fire and Throw the aerial ladder up, put the engine in pump, start a line to the front door, like turn it into a drill kind of thing, talk on a radio
JP: Yeah. Right.
Michael: like we had a fire, because we are the fucking fire department. The last time I checked. So when
JP: Yeah. Yep.
Michael: we when when we're when we're low on fire duty, that should not mean that we're low on enthusiasm. When we when
JP: Mm.
Michael: you get a box, okay, we we get we have a box system. When we when when you get a box or you get a run, whatever it is, right? You should be getting on the rig and going to that run like it's a working building fire every time. Get
JP: Yes, yes.
Michael: off the fucking rig with your gear on. I I mean, people think I'm fucking crazy. I roll up, there's certain addresses that I go to. If it's an unprotected building in my city and
JP: Mm.
Michael: it's an activated fire alarm, the first person telling you that it's an activated fire alarm was the alarm company saying there's an activated fire alarm. That that's that that's
JP: Yeah, they they told you there was a fire.
Michael: so that so that those people told me I'm going to a fire. That's that's the way I look at it. So then
JP: Yeah.
Michael: now now you got a second source. Phone call reporting a fire. Okay. I don't I don't wait for the second source. I pull up, I I'm the ladder chauffeur. I pull up, okay. We got a three-story ordinary, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I get myself into the spot, throw it in PTO, set the jacks. I have my helmet on, my gloves on. All I gotta do is grab the mask. By us, a mask is the entire SCBA. We call it a mask.
JP: Yeah. Yep.
Michael: All I gotta do is grab a mask and my tool. I'm going to work. I and I I watch other places and I and I preach this in all my classes. Have your gear on. It's and it's not a It's not a safety thing. It's a being ready to go to work thing. It's a
JP: Yes.
Michael: it's a you might pull up to a fire alarm and like I have, it came in as an activated fire alarm, you know, a beeping device from somebody's ceiling, and the
JP: Mm.
Michael: place was blown out two floors on arrival in the back. So we couldn't see it. So
JP: Yeah.
Michael: it was it was an apartment with like a like an O-shaped motel type of a thing,
JP: Okay. Yep.
Michael: but it was a it was apartments. It was blowing out two apartments in the back.
JP: Shut.
Michael: Top floor in in the cockloft that they ended up trenching the roof of this fucking place. I had the irons for the fire, spectacular fire.
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: And and we ended up getting two floors of fire in the entire cockloft. And it came in as a activated fire alarm. So I don't understand
JP: Good way.
Michael: guys that they treat fire alarms like they're bullshit. No, no, no, no, no, no. If you just treat everything like it's a fire, your enthusiasm for the job and your spirits will be way up. You don't have to go to a fire for a fucking year. If
JP: Mm. dude. Yeah.
Michael: treat everything like it's a job, you'll be fine.
JP: Now, have you seen there there is I I almost comment again, there's there's sometimes I I sort of like sit back, I'm like, do I comment or do I not on something? So it was it
Michael: Yeah, I had a bid. Yeah.
JP: right? No, it's so there there was it was a video of a department somewhere. I think it was a volunteer department based on the lettering on the side of the of the tiller. But the guy gets out of the tiller and he's he's wearing he's wearing his flipfist crocs, I think is what he's wearing. And of course, immediately I'm like God damn. But I I was impressed by two things. One, the dude peeled off that off that freaking tiller so fast. The pads were already on the ground before I even heard the truck get, you know, the the truck put in park. I mean, it it was
Michael: Yeah.
JP: I was impressed by how fast he moved. And it was actually secondary. I'm like, that motherfucker's not wearing any damn gear. But
Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
JP: now I what I will say again, the reason I didn't comment because I'm I'm not a truck guy. I I've I've worked on scenes where there is one in operation but never actually worked on one myself. So I I really have zero room to critique or to or to or to
Michael: See, but at least at least you at least but you're you say it though. You say it though. I've never
JP: Right. Yeah.
Michael: worked on a tanker. I don't know anything about it. You know, you you say it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
JP: Yeah, right. Absolutely. Yeah. So so with this, you know, with one of the comments was i it was something to the effect of, you know, he's not wearing his gear because it's if you've ever sat in the cab of a on on the tiller side of the truck, it's like the the equivalent there's like you say they go, try putting your gear on and sitting underneath your kitchen sink. It's about that tight. And I was like, Okay, so that makes sense. Again, somebody who's never done it before, I'm like, that shit's gotta be pretty damn tight. But I mean
Michael: Not for me. I mean I I and that's the this is where I differ from a lot of people. We
JP: Yeah.
Michael: have a tiller in my firehouse. We have one. I I we I'm a chauffeur, so I drive I drive the ladder too. I have my coat, I have my hood, I have all my shit on while I'm driving. And the tiller box I have all my shit on. Everything. Well everything's on.
JP: Yeah, well and and I think you have to. That that's that's my that's my belief, right? Because you don't know
Michael: I I don't bro, you don't know what you're gonna you could roll up and it's happened to me already. You could turn the corner and there's people hanging out windows. Now what? Hold on, hold on. I gotta go get I
JP: Right.
Michael: gotta put my shit on now. No, bro, I'm not I don't have time. Even when I when
JP: That's a good point. Yeah.
Michael: I was volunteer fire chief, I swear on my kids, when I was volunteer fire chief, I would go out to the Chevy Tahoe, right? You know, the the the the fire S U V, you know, I had one
JP: Yep. Yeah.
Michael: of them.
JP: yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Michael: And I kept my gear behind my seat, behind the f behind the driver's seat. Everybody didn't understand why. I would open up the back door, I'd put my bunker pants on before I got in the Chevy Tahoe, and I would get in a Chevy Tahoe, get down there, throw my coat and my helmet on because the brothers are wearing all their fucking gear. Why am I not? Why am I not wearing my fucking gear? No. No. So now it also it's
JP: Absolutely. Yes. Preach.
Michael: a va it's a volunteer fire department. I'm driving a Chevy Tahoe with a five point three liter motor in it. The thing thing is pretty fast. So I can guarantee
JP: Yeah.
Michael: you I'm gonna get there before the actual I'm not the fire department. I'm just a guy in an SUV that talks on the radio. The fire chief is not important.
JP: Sure.
Michael: We the fire chief is not important to this scenario. I have news for everybody. No water comes out of the Chevy Tahoe. There's no there's no GPM that comes out of that motherfucker. There's
JP: Yeah.
Michael: no ladders. There's no none of that. There's there's a couple of radios. I had a Halligan tool on it and you know, maybe a couple of muscles or something, some bullshit. But if I pulled
JP: Sure.
Michael: up and people were trapped, I had a mask. And I had gear. So if somebody said somebody's trapped and I had to make a move, I could make a move because it was a volunteer
JP: I like it. Yeah.
Michael: fire department. I I don't know. They are either gonna take 30 seconds or they're gonna take three minutes. I don't know. It's a volunteer fire department. Whereas at work,
JP: Right.
Michael: it's different at work, it's completely different. You know, we're you know, you're getting four engines, a truck, and a rescue on a work and fire, like immediately. So it's
JP: sure.
Michael: you know, the paid department's completely different in that respect. But
JP: for sure.
Michael: I see truck chauffeurs all over the place. you know, you know, listen. If you're going to get the meal or you're going to whatever and you don't have your coat on, I get it. I don't think and I don't give a shit what anybody says. I don't give a fuck what anyone says. I don't think you should be in a piece of fire apparatus with a minimum your bunker pants on. Minimum your bunker pants on. You could
JP: Mm. That's a good rule. I like that.
Michael: you could be rolling down the street and something bad could happen. And all of a sudden your day that was and I'm not I'm not giving you a for
JP: Mm.
Michael: instance. I'm not giving you a for instance. See, this is the thing. And I teach this in my classes. This is not a for instance. If I give you something, it's because it's happened to me already. You could be going about your day like la di-da, la-d-da, we're going for ice, coffee now, la di-da. And then all of a sudden that day changes. And you're going to the worst fire you've ever been to in your fucking life. And I hope you're ready for it. And that's how
JP: Mm.
Michael: that's actually when those fires that are spectacular, they
JP: Yeah.
Michael: happen when you least expect it. They typically happen when you're on overtime or a mutual. There were guys that you don't normally work with. It's
JP: Sure. Yep.
Michael: it's it's always like those variables going on. So if I work like a mutual with different when I'm working with a different crew of guys or I'm on overtime, I'm even that much more aware. You
JP: Mm.
Michael: know, and so it's it's that's the thing about the job. You don't know when this really bad fire is going to happen. You don't
JP: Yeah, brother.
Michael: know. So the five firemen that got killed by me on July first, do you think I l Do you think at launch time they were thinking that they're gonna go to all American Ford and the the place is gonna collapse and kill all five of them? They they weren't thinking that at all. Not
JP: Right.
Michael: at all. A and that's that's the way I was raised on the Hackenzack Fire Department to think of worst case scenario. What if
JP: Mm.
Michael: there's a fire right now? What are we doing? And I I was
JP: Yeah.
Michael: taught that from the second I got on the job. Yo, where are you parking this rig? I'm gonna park no, no, no, we're we're going for the meal. Park it this way so it faces out so we could get out of here faster if we got a fire. Like Everything
JP: Yeah.
Michael: the word fire ended at every sentence. I swear to god, bro. And that's how I was brought up in that job. And that's why, like, I don't understand why guys do like I had a I'll give you for instance of my volunteer fire department. They we need a when I was volunteer fire chief, and I don't regret this decision, by the way. Said we need the ladder truck to set up, we have 105-foot aerial. We need the ladder truck to set up a graduation and put the American flag up. So Most volunteer fire fire departments do this at the graduation. Most,
JP: Mm-hmm.
Michael: most using the word not not using the word all because I refuse to do that. And people could
JP: Yeah.
Michael: call me, people could call me a dick all want. And I went back with, what if there's a fire? What
JP: Right.
Michael: if? And we have a ton of occupied multiple dwellings, H types, U shapes, all those types, ordinaries.
JP: Mm.
Michael: If I got people hanging out of the fifth story window. And I got my aerial ladder down over here with a flag hanging off of it because a bunch of kids graduated high school. Which one was more important? I'd rather the aerial
JP: Yeah.
Michael: ladder sit in a fucking firehouse and do nothing. Because I don't know
JP: Yes.
Michael: when that fire is gonna happen. I don't
JP: Right.
Michael: know. I I I don't know. Like
JP: Mm.
Michael: we people bitcham on about the stock market that they don't know what the stock is gonna do. I don't know when the next bad fucking fire is gonna be. So let's
JP: It's such a yeah, dude.
Michael: So why don't we be ready a little bit here, guys? Let's be ready. Let's just be ready. You know.
JP: man, yeah dude. Ooh, I love that because that that that's
Michael: Ha ha ha.
JP: the it's the I again, we just had this discussion during the day. Like it it's tough in our town because we're we're a very two two members full time, the chief and myself, and we have per DM shifts that cover blah blah blah. Yeah, and and
Michael: Sure. We have a lot by us like that. I like that too. Yeah. My job isn't, but we have a lot by us like that.
JP: we what we also do it it's you know, it's I think what's starting to piss me off a little bit is like You know, when you don't know who to call, call the fire department. And I'm like, I'm like,
Michael: Yeah, that's us. That's us.
JP: there's a limitation because in in I I have fought this this war on I even even in our own house. I'm like, guys, if we can classify this thing as a service call, then they're calling the wrong agency to do the job. You know, whether it be, you know, I'll
Michael: Correct.
JP: I'll I'll even go so far as in in this is kind of it's a hotter take, but you know, changing somebody's batteries and their detector. They're like, well, I they're like, well,
Michael: All the time. We do it all the time.
JP: right. And it's I'm like, so maybe what we need to do
Michael: We it all the time. We do it.
JP: is is staff staff a squad with, you your your F two fifty with a with the step stool and get what you can at Granny Smith's, but you're not taking your your, you know, million dollar piece out. And all of a sudden it's like, yeah, we know,
Michael: Met of service, yeah.
JP: right, because the cause well because then, you know, the argument is, well, it's not really out of service. And it's like it's in my opinion is It's out of service enough. It's out of service enough. Yes. No, good on you for holding that that to the fire, man.
Michael: Your your reflex time. Yeah, your re your reflex time from that and and listen, bro. Bro, that that that our fucking reflex time, man. It's so we we have where I work, we get a ton of malicious elevator alarms. A ton. People hit the elevator alarm. We
JP: Really? Okay. Yep.
Michael: get a lot of them. A lot of them, a lot of them. We also have pull boxes on our city. So you know the old school game wall pull boxes. So we got a lot,
JP: Mm. Yep, yep.
Michael: we got a we get a lot of malicious false pull box alarms.
JP: Yep. Yep.
Michael: So they'll pull a box, but when somebody pulls a box, you get a first alarm assignment. You know, so they
JP: Sure. Yeah.
Michael: they pull box one six at the corner of Reeland and Taylor, how I even remember that. But they say they pull box one six at
JP: Yeah.
Michael: they pull box six at one at V Reeland and Taylor, right? That's a long ride for me. So now
JP: Yeah.
Michael: I'm all the way down at Vreeland and Taylor, and now I get a a house going on Cedar, which is on the opposite end now. So now it now it's a bitch. So
JP: Yes. Right.
Michael: and there's all these malicious forces and service calls and all of this stuff. And
JP: Mm.
Michael: The thing is, is that what I'm finding is it's a as much as it can be a pain in the ass and a bad thing, sometimes it's a good thing. Because what I when I go on these service calls, what I do is with these kids, and I and I hate saying the word kids because now I'm getting old and I hate admitting it. But
JP: I feel we're the same age dude, so I but I feel the same way.
Michael: I I I but you know what? We'll go on a service call and I'll be yo, bro, listen, we got fire pumping out. This one, this window. What are we doing here? Yo, where
JP: Sure.
Michael: are we where are we putting the truck here? Where are we gonna place the truck here? We gotta get up halfway on the lawn. Where's the first two engine going? Where's the hydrant? Where's this? Where's that? Where's the stretch? Blah blah blah. And we we just we turn it into a fire really quick and then we
JP: Yeah.
Michael: go. And you know, so but the service calls, it it and that's part of the enthusiasm part. The the enthusiasm
JP: Mm.
Michael: class that I teach. The that those runs. It's like it takes the wind out of yourselves, bro. When you when you go on like three of those after midnight, you're like, Are you fucking like you you start
JP: Yeah.
Michael: getting to the point where you're like, What am I a fireman or am I a plumber? Am I an electrician? Am I am I
JP: Yeah, dude. Absolutely.
Michael: what am I? What are we doing here, bro? And you and you
JP: Right.
Michael: leave work and you're like, Am I on the fire department? What did I just leave? And then you
JP: Yeah.
Michael: come home and you feel deflated. You come home and you're like, What was that? You know what I mean? And then
JP: Yeah.
Michael: Other mornings I other mornings I've come home with tinged fucking ears and shit. I'm like, yeah, I'm a fireman. Yeah. It's
JP: Ha ha ha.
Michael: it's it's such a give and take, love-hate relationship that you have with the job. So it's
JP: Yes. Yes.
Michael: so it's so it am I and I only listen, bro, all the stuff that I preach, a lot of this shit ain't my own. A lot of this shit the I only learned one thing on my own the hard way, but a lot of the shit I preach is cause somebody else taught me, bro. I didn't come up with the shit. So there's all these
JP: Yeah, you know it's true.
Michael: guys there's all these instructors out there writing books, and I'm like Did you write the book or did somebody tell you this shit? Because there's no way that you came up with all of this stuff on your own. So for me, if I ever write
JP: Mm.
Michael: a book, which I never will, but it would say Mike Recco's book of bullshit, and these are the people that told me everything and all of their names going all the way down. Because
JP: sure.
Michael: it takes bro, it takes a village to ra to raise a a fireman. I'm a firm believer of it. You know what I mean? And it's
JP: yeah.
Michael: just Dude, I had a senior man tell me all the time, he goes, It becomes so hard to stay in the game when we go on these bullshit runs. He goes, But that's
JP: Yeah.
Michael: when it's gonna happen. He goes, It's gonna happen when you're at like that that fifth run after midnight where you're exhausted and now all of a you go into a dwelling where people trap. That's when it's gonna happen. And and and
JP: Yeah. Yep.
Michael: that's what and let me tell you what, and we all tell one another that in the rig. We're like, bro, maybe next run, maybe next run, you never know. And then it doesn't happen and we're kind of bummed out, and it's just like
JP: Yeah.
Michael: recycles into the next tour. But every morning I come in to work and I'm like, all right, I'm gonna check the truck the way I check the truck every tour. We're gonna do our thing. We're gonna check the saws, the
JP: Yeah.
Michael: cylinders, mass, this and that. And you know, you you get into that routine. And you know, I'm starting seventeen or eighteen years, whatever, I'm out of one. And it's just it's we do the same thing the same way every single day. And I'm I'm lucky enough that I work with a great group of guys. My boss is spectacular. He deals with my wise ass all day. And believe me,
JP: Yep, yep.
Michael: I would Not want to be the boss of me. I would not want to be my captain. I don't know how he deals with my with my antics. Because, you
JP: Ha ha ha.
Michael: know, I like to have fun when I work. And I think you could probably tell that my talk maybe, you know, I like
JP: I'm so fucking lutely, dude. Yeah, dude.
Michael: to have fun. My deputy chief, my deputy chief, he's just like, yeah, I because he's known he's known me my whole life, my deputy, you know, and he and he he gets it. He gets it, you know. But
JP: yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Michael: dude, I gotta tell you, there's so many over the years, I I've taken so many classes, bro. I I I I you you name a
JP: Yeah.
Michael: certificate. You name a certificate. It's upstairs in my fucking filing cabinet. And you know
JP: Yep, yep.
Michael: what? And you want to know what? There's a lot of guys who are not coming down a burning hallway with me. And guess what? They got the same fucking certificates, don't they? They went to the same class, right?
JP: Hmm. Yes. Yep. Yep.
Michael: So you can go to school. You can go to fucking Harvard and get a master's degree in this shit. If you don't got heart in this job,
JP: Mm-hmm.
Michael: and if you don't want to be in this job. I don't care what certificate you got. It ain't gonna help me when we're pulling a 300 pound lady out of a burning apartment building.
JP: Right.
Michael: She's not asking you for your certs, bro. She don't really give a fuck. They don't they
JP: Yeah, they they don't give two shits, buddy.
Michael: they don't care who who you are. Like, and that's why I I I've always like I I don't get it. And I I really don't. And that to you know,
JP: Yeah.
Michael: it's like, well, you should become a fire instructor. Okay, well tell me what I want you to tell me why. Well, and then I want
JP: No.
Michael: you to tell me how. Well, you should become a fire instructor to teach at the academy. Yeah, but I don't want to do that. Why?
JP: Right.
Michael: Why don't you want to do that? Because I don't like the curriculum they teach. Well, why is that? Because I know the book that they teach, and the book that they teach does not have enough building construction in it. They don't have enough firefighting
JP: Mm.
Michael: in it. There's nowhere in the book does it talk about this, that, and the other. And I'm getting firefighters coming to me and I and I I put this quote on my Instagram page a couple of months ago, and a lot of people came at me about it agreeing for once. And
JP: Right.
Michael: I've had people say to me, like, wow, that's true. They'll say all over the country, by the way. This is not specific to me. Yeah, we we went to the Flyer Academy and they said we're gonna show you the basics, and when we get to your fire department, they're gonna teach you their way and the right way to do it. And I'm like, and I'm like,
JP: Absolutely. Yep. Yep.
Michael: why is that? Because I don't understand. So let's look at this as a logical fucking way. For let's just I wanna use logic for one second. I can't stand cops, but let's just use the cops for a second. Okay.
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: The cops, when they go to the police academy, their weapon, whatever it may be, their department gives them their weapon and they go to the police academy and use it. So let's just say they have a Glock 19, 9mm, right? That's
JP: Mm.
Michael: what they're gonna use at the Academy. That's the gun that they have. They're gonna know it's nine millimeter. They're gonna know how to take it apart, clean it, load it, fire it, fire it properly, use it in the With not being able to see, use it one hand, use it from the hip. They're gonna be able to do everything with this gun, right?
JP: Yeah, yeah. Right.
Michael: We send guys to the fire academy. Their weapon is a nozzle. Guess what? It's packed differently, it's a different nozzle, it's a different everything. Then they come, then they then
JP: Mm. That's a good point. Yep.
Michael: they come to us. The primary objective of the fire service would be the nozzle. Am I right or wrong? So then they come to us and they go, well, we I don't
JP: yeah. Yeah.
Michael: know anything about that nozzle. We didn't use that in the academy. Or we didn't you we didn't use that whole zode in the academy. And I'm like, what do you mean? And so now we find ourselves having
JP: Yeah, like what do we send you for?
Michael: so now I we gotta deprogram you and then program you. Same thing with drawing ladders. Like
JP: Yeah.
Michael: they don't they they teach optimal conditions, and I get it that they're held to
JP: Yeah.
Michael: some kind of a federal standard. I I get it. But I
JP: Yeah, but still
Michael: I I I know of about 10 fire departments in the United States of a fucking America that is properly Staffed.
JP: Mm.
Michael: I'm talking about a five to six man truck company, six man rescue company, like that shit. And the whole country, the whole United States. No, really. Think about it. You just said where you're from, what you guys are doing, right? So I I know
JP: Yeah, right. Yeah. yeah. No, absolutely. It's disgusting. Yeah. Right, right.
Michael: I'm I'm riding a four man truck. The show and the OV work together. We're cutting roofs by ourselves sometimes. It is what it is. It
JP: sure. Yeah.
Michael: is what it is. Why are you taking windows with the air ladder? because that's that aerial ladder, that's another fireman. I know if you know it. King King, that's that's my
JP: Just that yeah, we ain't got nobody
Michael: That's why it's this man. What the fuck?
JP: else coming.
Michael: Like so if if you think of these things, if you think of these tactics and you think of these issues that we have in the fire service realistically, and you kind of think like a civilian a little bit, it'll start to make sense. I swear to God. I swear to God.
JP: Hmm. dude, I I love the passion and enthusiasm. Let's let's switch it just a little bit and and dive into into why you started the logistics company and everything. I I think it's great, dude. I I think anybody
Michael: Thank you.
JP: that wants to better the fire service in in whatnot, but I mean really kind of, you know, what what was the the aha moment and the, you know what? Fuck it, we're gonna do it and we're gonna we're gonna do it the right way.
Michael: Y you know what it was, bro? I was I've done it, I've been doing it for a long time. And I teach at work. I'm part of the tra training committee in Hack and Zach Fire. And
JP: Yeah.
Michael: guys have always told me 'cause I I I add a lot of humor. The way I talk, my mu my mother's from the Bronx and I'm from Jersey. So I have an accent that I don't even realize I fucking have. So what the way the
JP: Yeah.
Michael: way I talk the way I curse, my analogies, stuff like that, people enjoy it. And it and
JP: Yeah.
Michael: it c and it catches people. And I'm finding that there's people out there teaching stuff that I don't think is valid. Not only is it not
JP: Mm.
Michael: valid, they're teaching it in this mature way. They're mature. They're mature. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: you should listen to it. Get the fuck there is nothing mature about stretching an inch or three quarter into somebody's burning fucking bedroom, opening the line. Wiping out all the fucking pictures of their family and pets and destroying the room of water. There's nothing mature about this, guys. Wake up. Wake up.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: For you suit wearing white collar wannabes that are watching this. Stop it. Stop being mature. Have some fun. Laugh, giggle. It's fine. It's fine to
JP: Yeah.
Michael: break a window and say rah-rah. It's fine. Calm down. So, my what I have found when I I wanted to start this because I have found that so many people have come to me. Bro, what's your take on this? Because we know we we We know you're gonna tell us the way it is. We know we
JP: Ha ha.
Michael: we know you're gonna fuck and I tell them all the time, okay, this is the way it is. And I can honestly tell you the way it is because when I when I fuck up, I'm gonna tell you I fucked up too. I don't give a shit. And I
JP: Sure, sure.
Michael: I I like so I started this out because I'm like, wait a minute. I think guys don't really need more instructors. I think guys need some motivational speakers up in this motherfucker. I I really do. Like, I'm gonna give
JP: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Michael: you some tactics, but like The tactics are driven by the motivation to do them. Does that make sense? Like, so
JP: Yes, yeah, for sure.
Michael: your tactics suck if you're not motivated to do it in the first place. So, like,
JP: Mm.
Michael: if you're not motivated, so you're on an engine company, right? So we, we, my our engine companies here, we we run long lines. We call them tenement loads, 600-foot lines off the back of the engines, right? If you're not motivated to learn how to stretch that line, break it in the right place, stretch it. Upstairs, around corners, down long hallways. If you're not motivated
JP: Mm.
Michael: to do that, your tactics are gonna suck at the fire. So motivation is everything. Enthusiasm is everything. So
JP: Right. Yeah. Yeah, dude.
Michael: if you're not if you're not into it, you're not gonna be into it when we get that fire. I guarantee you, it ain't gonna work out well. You know,
JP: Hmm. Yeah.
Michael: don't think that the day when I I call it the day of the dog. When the day of the dog comes, don't think that automatically you're gonna be Joe Fireman. It ain't gonna happen, bro. So
JP: Yeah.
Michael: like. And that's the thing about enthusiasm and motivation. That's why it plays such an in an important fucking role in the fire department and we're losing it. And I'm watching it happen. And
JP: Mm.
Michael: I'm like, and and I have guys looking at me like, What are you doing? And I'm looking at them like, No, no, no, what are you fucking doing? I'm
JP: Right, right.
Michael: the guy that goes to I'm the guy that wants to go to a fire. You must be the other guy. So and
JP: Yeah.
Michael: and and I'm seeing it with guys that are younger than me and everything. And
JP: Mm.
Michael: I'm like, so when I started this out, I I I did a I did a bu I've done a bunch of lectures. Next week I'm booked up or already. It's pretty crazy. but I just go out and I tell people the truth about my life, about how I feel about things.
JP: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael: And I use simple little analogies here and there. And, you know, especi I love to attack the cops because it's so easy. But I I I
JP: No yeah.
Michael: use simple I I I use like, you know, I I had a problem with a cop the other day. I'm like, Hey you hey bro, listen, listen, listen, cuz if there's a bank robbery, I promise I will not be in your fucking way. Can you get the fuck out of my way, please? Like I use like little analogies like that. And and guys are like they
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: find it funny and I think with laughter comes with guys pay attention a little bit more. I I I think when you have a guy reading
JP: Yes, for sure.
Michael: when you have a guy reading off of a PowerPoint and he's literally reading every sentence and I have PowerPoints, bro. My PowerPoints go on for three hours, but I'm
JP: Sure.
Michael: not reading every single sentence like this. You're losing the guys. They're not paying
JP: Yeah.
Michael: And you want to know what's fucked up. You might have actually had a really good point in there and but you lost the guys. They stopped paying attention. They're playing on
JP: Right.
Michael: they're they're on Instagram checking the DMs. They're not paying attention to you. And that's
JP: Yeah. Right.
Michael: that's the problem. So if I tell a bunch of kids, yeah, you know what? I got trapped in a house fire and almost fucking got killed. Here's why you should listen to your Viber Alert. They're gonna listen to that. They're gonna listen to that. And that's and that's when we go back
JP: Yeah. They'll remember it now. Yep.
Michael: to the instructors having some kind of an experience. And experience whether it's good or bad. Maybe you should have a little bit of both. Maybe you should have a little bit of both. Something to teach like,
JP: Mm. Yeah. That's a good point.
Michael: hey, I fucked this up. Don't fuck this up. You don't want to learn this way. You know what I mean?
JP: dude, that's I and I think I think you're on to it because I mean everybody wants like I said, we've we said it a few times tonight. Everybody wants to be like that next big person. And I think some of it boils down to
Michael: god, yeah.
JP: a lot of people, they never got that validation when they were a fucking kid. And now they're getting, they're getting worldwide validation,
Michael: Yeah. Yeah.
JP: you know, because they're they're like, how many, look how many followers I have and how many I'm like, dude. So somebody the other day,
Michael: Yeah, yeah.
JP: they They're like, man, how many followers do you have? And I go, I don't know. I don't, I don't pay attention to that metric because it I I care more about guys who randomly reach out to say, Hey, I love your stuff. I like what you're doing. I disagree with what you have to say, and here's why. Let's have a conversation versus because I mean, you start to get to, you know, hundreds of thousands of of followers. You can't remember who the hell really is a follower anymore. I mean, I I I'm in the low fours on on on one of the platforms. And I'm like, you know, I'm like, I couldn't keep up with four. That that is four it I'm glad that I have four thousand, but somebody will send me something and I'm like, shit, is this a follower? And I and I have to manually go in and I need to take a look. And it's not because it's it's no disrespect to them. It's 'cause I can't keep track of I can barely keep track of the twenty men and women that are on our fire department, let alone four thousand strangers from across the world that that I really appreciate you know, it's like, God damn.
Michael: Right. Right. But you know what though? I I try like so I put one video out there. I was going to a good fire and you'll see that it got one point two million fucking views. I put it on my Instagram fucking around. One point two million views and like a hundred
JP: The shit.
Michael: and twenty it got a hundred and twenty thousand likes on the thing. And it's a video of
JP: Fuck dude.
Michael: me driving a ladder, going to a fire. There's a good column and I'm yelling at the guys. This is what it's all about, motherfuckers. Yellowing at the guy. And
JP: Yeah.
Michael: we're full, but we're going to fire. We're happy.
JP: yeah, right.
Michael: The amount of the amount of good comments and the amount of hate and the amount of good comments and the amount of hate. And I ended up getting a hundred and twenty something thousand likes. It went viral. I went on some some
JP: No shit, yeah.
Michael: big podcast over it. And I'm like, Jesus Christ. So now like, yeah, you're right. Like you get like I don't know how many followers I have. There's like four thousand, five thousand, whatever it is. But what what's fucked up about it is I'll get a follower, we're all the same. So like if I get a follower and he said, Hey bro, how you doing, man? I'm from I'm going to Texas. I'm going to El Paso, Texas, right? So I'm teaching there in January. I talk to these dudes. These dudes are the same as me. Like, like if you
JP: Right.
Michael: just like like if you take a minute to like talk to these dudes, we all got the same the guys who are into the job, we're all the same. We're we're all the same one
JP: for sure.
Michael: way or another. Like, like it's it's crazy. It doesn't matter where you come from. So that's why it's like I try to I try my best to like follow everybody back and talk to everybody because I'm
JP: Yeah.
Michael: fine out. I'm like, And bro, I like going out teaching just because I get to I get I I'm a big buff. I like looking at fire trucks and shit. I like look I like
JP: sure.
Michael: looking at I like looking at other people's shit. I like I look at other people's firehouses and stuff. I like breaking balls, you know, like so
JP: Yeah.
Michael: that's why it's also fun to go out and teach. I don't charge an arm and a leg either because
JP: Right.
Michael: like there's guys out there that that are like, you know, I I I Don't know, man. I just I don't believe in charging an arm and a leg to do it because I don't think I'm worth that much. I think that I'm gonna come and tell you some of my experiences on where I went wrong and where I went right in my career, and
JP: Mm.
Michael: it's opinion-based. So that's what that's what a consultant is. It's an opinion-based
JP: Sure.
Michael: fucking thesis that I'm gonna give you. And you
JP: Right.
Michael: could choose to follow it or not. Now, an instructor, he's gonna give you a curriculum that you have to follow per the
JP: Mm.
Michael: your division of fire safety or whatever, whatever, whatever. I wa I wasn't looking to do that. I wasn't looking to do that. I I did not want to be I wanted to be able to say what I wanted to say. Like we have free we have
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: freedom of speech and guy well somebody can get hurt. Yeah, somebody can get hurt. One hundred percent somebody can get hurt. Absolutely. But we
JP: This job is dangerous.
Michael: if we say somebody can get hurt for every little thing, we're not gonna get anything done. We're not gonna get anything done.
JP: Absolutely. Yep.
Michael: We're not gonna hey bro. I could get hurt running to the rig. I could get hurt cooking dinner. We had a guy boiling pasta at work, burn his arm from the boiling water, fucking straining the pasta. Bro, you get hurt doing anything. Stop. You know, and and you know what? Exactly, bro. Hey, listen, man, it's the truth. And and bro, I did get hurt. I almost got fucking
JP: No fuck. Shit. it's true. Well, yeah. You can overstrain taking a shit sometimes and now you're out work.
Michael: killed. Guess what? I learn from it. We move on. I
JP: Yeah.
Michael: I teach as many people as I possibly can and that is what it is. What are we gonna do? We're gonna we're
JP: yeah, dude.
Michael: gonna sit around and cry about it? Like the fuck like that's where I don't understand w sometimes where the fire service is going and I'm seeing a lot of younger guys are convinced of the bullshit. And I'm like, Whoa, hold on a minute, bro. So we that's where I get scared. I'm like, wait
JP: That's yes.
Michael: a minute. So you mean you mean to tell me that you know more about hazmat than you know about building construction? You need
JP: Mm.
Michael: you mean to tell me that you know more about Whatever it is more than building a truck. Like, so I got on the fire department in 02. I went to the fire academy in 2002. So that's right on the heels of nine right on the heels of 9-11.
JP: Yep, yep. fresh, yeah.
Michael: So we're getting terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, sea burn. Remember all that shit? you know,
JP: Yep. Yep.
Michael: anthrax scares, hazmat technician we went for. We were going for all of this stuff. And I get on a job and a guy hands me Vincent Dunn's Collapse of Burning Buildings. And he said to me, I want you to read this book. It was the first edition, little square red book. I want you to read this book three times, not once, not twice, three times. He goes, Because this is what's gonna get you killed. Collapse of burning buildings. This is what it's gonna be. And this is what
JP: Mm.
Michael: happened here in Hackenzack, New Jersey. We had a collapse of a burning building and it killed five guys. So let's just keep it fucking basic, shall we? And I'll
JP: Man. Yeah.
Michael: never forget that. The first and that was like the first week I was on a job. I'm like, wow. I this is where I want to be for the rest of my life because these guys take this job seriously. I have a senior,
JP: That's awesome.
Michael: I have a senior man. Seated chauffeur, there was one on the engine and was one on the truck. Two senior men that were at that fire. That both told me the same thing. They were at two different firehouses. Yeah, I don't care about
JP: Easy.
Michael: I don't care about how to rig li does the rig does the rig pump properly. There I had this guy Frank, he had this way of speaking that he would capture you. He goes,
JP: Sure.
Michael: did they call me kids? Hey kid, rig pump, we'll check every discharge, every discharge. I'm like, what do you mean? We're gonna check every fucking discharge. You wanna clean this fucking thing? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Get the gauges, get a nozzle. We're gonna check every discharge. We're gonna compare it to the gauge to the nozzle. We're gonna let the water out. Then we're gonna check every that's how he talked. And he would talk really
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: fast. And you had to keep up. And and and this guy, he had a cigarette dangling out of his mouth. He had a cigarette, like this guy had like three packs of cigarettes a day in phenomenal shape. And
JP: I love it.
Michael: I knew that Sea Grave engine from bumper. Two bumper. I knew discharge number three was
JP: Yes.
Michael: off by 10 psi. I knew it was off kid. It's off by 10 psi. So with that, look, if you see the see the white whiteout pen, the whiteout pen shows you where it's really supposed to be on the fucking gate. It's all by 10 psi. Watch. Like this is how in tune these dudes are. He goes, I
JP: Yeah, dude.
Michael: don't give a fuck that the thing is a wash. I could give a shit. We'll get to that. He used to say it, we'll get to that. If we have time, we'll we'll get to that. Yeah. But but like I gotta make sure that this fucking apparatus is ready for fire duty today. Like that's how we used to talk. And I'm like,
JP: Yes
Michael: so as a young kid, so now I'm a young 23 year old impressionable kid, right? So I'm
JP: Right.
Michael: getting I'm getting talked to by an older man, 55 plus, and I'm looking at him like he's young, like me. I'm like, dude, really? And he kid you go, and now he would tell me. This is when I was riding engines in the beginning of our job. You don't get on the truck company right away at our job. So
JP: Okay, yep.
Michael: you bounce around engines. So this is up at engine two by me. And he would tell, Yo, kid, you you hear that box go off when that music plays, you better be on this rig. Because I'm gonna pump the brakes twice and I'm fucking leaving. I'm leaving. When
JP: Ha ha ha ha ha.
Michael: you get out of the rig, and this is before roll-up doors, we had a C grade engine battle wagon. And when
JP: Yeah.
Michael: you get out of the rig, make sure you close the door. If you don't close the door, I'm gonna break your arm and then you won't be able to close the door anymore. And I'm like, I'm like, I I I I got it, I got you, bro. If I gotta reposition the rig, I'm not dealing with your door open. Like you like, and and this is and this is how this guy was, but this guy was, but he were, and then when we would get a fire, he had a cigarette out of out of his mouth, he's pumping a rig, fucking like like no big deal. Like this was not a big deal. Like I used to say, fires were not an event. His side was
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: This guy was spectacular at his job and he didn't want to he expected excellence. He didn't want to hear that you were hungover and tired. He didn't want to hear any of that fucking shit.
JP: Sure.
Michael: Now yeah, kid? Alright, I'll have a pot of coffee. We'll have a pot of coffee and well, you know, let's let's get go. Like he didn't care. He
JP: Mm.
Michael: this this guy So I got brought up into that. What
JP: I love that dude, yeah.
Michael: and a lot of people would compare that to PG County and them.
JP: Mm.
Michael: Like, you know, you remember like back in the day, like Kentland, PG County, all those guys like running to
JP: Yeah yeah. Yep.
Michael: the It was kind of like that where I work. It kind of still is, but that was just the Hackenzack Fire Department. That we weren't trying to be somebody else. It was
JP: Yeah. Right.
Michael: you're getting paid good money to turn the fuck out and do your job. That's it. That's
JP: Yeah. Yep.
Michael: it. And that's that's kind of how it was. And we I take a lot of pride in that. I take a lot of pride in being a Hackenzack fireman that we
JP: As you should. Yeah.
Michael: we had a tragedy happen on July first, nineteen eighty eight, and we refused to let it go. We refuse to let it go.
JP: Mm.
Michael: And we have guys retiring and it's our job, the guys who now to keep on passing that down about building construction, radio communications, all of that shit. It's our job to keep on passing it down because it would be terrible for us to
JP: Yeah.
Michael: make the same mistake again. And that's why I bring it up in every one of my lectures, you know? So yeah.
JP: I love it. Well, and and I think that's that's that is the absolute precipice of you know the never forget, the paying, you know, somebody paid the ultimate sacrifice and the the the price that they bought or you know, what they bought with that price, I should say, is the fact that you guys are are doing this. So I and I think
Michael: Right.
JP: it it's that's awesome. So for the viewers and listeners, what is the you know, a The best way for them to get a hold of you or, you know, anything like that if they want to book you for for consulting or whatever the case is.
Michael: sure. well I tell you what, that the it's the main way it seems is Mike Greco one five two. It's Mike underscore Greco one five two on Instagram and the website is Greco Emergency Logistics dot com. And there's a this is a power call siren for all the whackers out there just like me. Greco emergency
JP: Yeah, buddy.
Michael: Greco Emergency Logistics dot com. It'll show you everything that we offer. you know, we we go for I do a lot of truck company operations lectures.
JP: Mm.
Michael: I go I do a lot of volunteer fire department lectures because I have a lot of people or volunteer firemen. There's more volunteer than there is P. And
JP: yeah.
Michael: I've been through all that. I was a volunteer chief. So I have a class that goes from being a firefighter to a lieutenant, from being an officer to a chief in a volunteer setting. I have truck company operations. That's pretty much for everybody. I have aerial ladder positioning. I have now I have public information officer, which is taught by A deputy chief from my job. He used to be the public information officer. He teaches
JP: Yeah, yeah.
Michael: that because he did a phenomenal job of that in his career. So he teaches
JP: Yeah.
Michael: that. so we have a we have a couple of things going on, but and the the biggest one that I'm getting is the enthusiasm class. I get it all the fucking time because everybody
JP: Yeah.
Michael: has the same problem. Nobody's going to enough fires. Nobody. No
JP: Right.
Michael: one.
JP: Yeah.
Michael: So nobody's going on our fires and they're and everybody is in like this depressive fucking state and this lull. And how do we get out of it? How do you get out of it? I I know how. Lay on the fucking air horn for like a minute straight, going through the traffic, pull up, pull up. If you're driving the engine, pull up, pull the fucking brakes, take the pump, hit D, get out, take the fucking five inch, throw it at the hydrant, suction the hydrant, put water through the line, take the pump. Engine two chauffeur to engine two. Engine two, want city water. Temp floor. Okay, we gotta activate a fire alarm on the second floor. Okay, yeah, it's caused by food on the stove. Okay, temp four. And then you know what you do, you go back, you turn the hydrogen off, you drain that line out,
JP: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Michael: you put it back and you put it back to the way and you've have felt like you have done something. And you and you
JP: Yes.
Michael: wanna know why? You did. You got your spirits up because you got your blood flowing.
JP: Mm.
Michael: You did a little bit of training. So that night at three o'clock in the morning when it's blown out three windows, you're gonna grab that hydrogen just the same. You did you you already did it today. You already did it today. Okay. So
JP: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
Michael: that's how. Like we talk about enthusiasm. And that that's for the engine and for the truck is the same thing. Drone Jackson going into PTL and being being
JP: Yeah.
Michael: like same thing for Chiefs. Same thing for Chiefs. If you're
JP: Yeah. Yep.
Michael: like when I when I was when I was when I was fire chief in the Vali Firehouse. 60 on scene, establishing boulevard command, exposure one in the street, exposure two is a similar like exposure three is a weird yard, exposure four is a three-story frame, blah blah blah blah blah. I would give the entire thing to keep myself on point. So in the middle of the
JP: Mm. Yeah.
Michael: night, when I'm when I'm like when I'm like asleep, I could do this. You know what I mean? So yeah, you had to like
JP: Yes. Absolutely, dude.
Michael: be in the fucking game and you won't have that like that depressive state of the guys, man. Seriously. Best advice I could give, you know.
JP: I love it. Yeah. brother. So we do ask one question of everybody. It's the last question before we we sign off. So
Michael: Sure. Sure.
JP: it's leadership. So somebody walks up to you and they're like, Mike, man, I I want to start my way into, you know, being being a leader. What is your one pure, raw, and most most importantly, unfiltered piece of advice for that person to start their way down a successful path to becoming a leader?
Michael: How many fires you been in? That's one. That's one, how
JP: Yep.
Michael: many fires you've been to? Because it is hard to gain the respect out of firemen if you haven't been to any fires to be a leader. Two, do you have a set of balls? Do you have a set of balls? To be a true leader in the 2026 fire service, you will be involved in some kind of a fucking conflict. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: if you don't have a set of balls, you're not going to be able to be a leader. I can I promise you. If you are a leader, now you're you said you're a deputy chief. Is that what what's your what's your okay, you're a deputy chief,
JP: Yeah. Yeah, deputy. Yep.
Michael: right? So I'm gonna call you chief right now. Chief, have you gone in 2026 one calendar month without having a fucking problem with somebody? An issue.
JP: No, I dude, I I haven't gone a shift actually. I just did just Yeah. I like that.
Michael: Then then you're then then you're a leader. Then you're then you're a leader. Because because the guys who are in the leadership roles that roll around with no problems with anybody and everything is fine, the
JP: Mm.
Michael: guys don't look at them as leaders. You know what they look at them as? Good guys. Yeah, he's a good guy. He's a real he's a really good guy. He hasn't gotten a fucking thing.
JP: Yes, yes. Yeah, down earth dude.
Michael: He hasn't gotten a thing accomplished in the 10 years that he's been a boss, but he's a really good guy. I'd
JP: Yep.
Michael: rather people fucking hate me. But tell me, you know what? I can't stand that motherfucker, but I will follow him into any fire that there is. There is a deputy
JP: Absolutely.
Michael: chief that retired from my job that I fucking cannot stand. He knows who he is, and he only knows who I am. And everyone watching this will know who I'm talking about. I cannot stand the motherfucker. But the guy knows how to ran a fire. When he was a fire officer, I would have gone into a fire with him. I would have followed him anywhere. Outside of fire,
JP: Sure.
Michael: outside of fire duty, can't stand the guy. I think he's an asshole. But fires?
JP: Sure.
Michael: A one, bro. A one. And you want to know what?
JP: Fuck yeah.
Michael: That's the biggest point of respect that you could give somebody. I don't care if you don't like me. Fuck you, bro. You're down to go
JP: Right.
Michael: to a fire with me? I'm in. That's all I ask. That's all I ask. So
JP: It's so true, dude. I love it.
Michael: if you want to be, if you want to be a leader in today's fire service, having a set of balls will automatically bring you above three-quarters of the populace of this fire service right now.
JP: Mm. dude, well put. Yeah.
Michael: You have to. So if you cannot go face to face with another man or woman and tell them their deficiencies, and you don't have to be a dick about it either. You could say,
JP: Sure.
Michael: hey, listen, so and so. pumping the engine. We need to go over this, this, this, and this and this. And we to do a little bit of remediation and retraining and this and that and this and that. If you're not able to face the bad times, you're not gonna be a leader. I'm sorry.
JP: Mm.
Michael: You're not gonna be able to do it. It's all about and
JP: Yeah.
Michael: again, brother, the same thing. It's about the bad times. You cannot be a
JP: Yes.
Michael: leader under optimal conditions. It's gonna be when shit isn't correct, personality wise, the
JP: Right.
Michael: whatever it is. You have to have a set of balls. Don't come in there. If you didn't have a set of balls in high school, I could guarantee you they're gonna work out for you in the fucking firehouse. I could guarantee because what are we what are
JP: For real.
Michael: we in the firehouse? We're a bunch of high school kids in a firehouse. I got news for everybody. So
JP: absolutely. Yep. Hundred percent.
Michael: if you got bullied in high school, you might have a problem. You might have a problem. And we have a place for that that's called the police department. You go over there, take their tests, and go right around in a radio car, pull people over, and write speeding tickets all day. So you understand what I'm saying? So if
JP: This is great, dude. I love this.
Michael: if you have a little bit of balls, you're already three quarters. Look at society. Look at
JP: sure.
Michael: look at what we look at how it is right now. So
JP: Mm.
Michael: if you have a little bit of balls, you're already that much ahead of the game. Just a little bit of balls. Not enough to be a dick like me. Mike Retco, I'm a dictive. I'm horrible. I people people tell you they hate me because I'm a dick. But you know what? At least you know where I'm coming from. And I rather have people know where I'm coming from, bro. And
JP: Yeah. Yep.
Michael: that's that's the biggest thing. You want to be a leader, you can't be everybody's friend. That's that that's really the message I'm trying to give you. If you really want to be a
JP: dude, I love that, yeah.
Michael: leader, you can't be everybody's friend. It's impossible. Don't try to be everybody's friend. That's honest to God.
JP: Dude, spot on. Awesome. Awesome, brother. Listen, I I thank you so much for your time. to our viewers, to the
Michael: bro, thank you. Thank you.
JP: to the viewers and listeners, if something in today's episode hit, and don't, don't, don't bullshit us. We know it did. Make sure you hit that share button, hit the follow button, hit Mike up on the socials as well. if you want to be part of something bigger, make sure you follow the passionate leader across all platforms, join us on Discord. And every Sunday night where real talk meets real change at the kitchen table live on TikTok every Sunday night, eight o'clock. More importantly, and above all, everybody, be the leader that you needed when you first joined the fire service. And as always, lead with passion, serve with humility, and leave no room for bottom feeders until we meet each other meet each other again. Everybody, stay safe.