S03: E01 - Rewriting Your Career Story with Claire Carroll

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Welcome to the Parent Equation podcast with me, aisha Murray.
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This podcast series is full of inspiring stories from working parents who are passionate about designing a life that works for them and their families Working parents like you who want a purposeful, rewarding career alongside a balanced family life.
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So today on the Parent Equation podcast, I'm joined by Claire Carroll.
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Claire is an executive and career coach helping mid-career professionals, and we're going to talk today about portfolio careers.
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So welcome, claire.
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Thanks, aisha, great to be here.
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Delighted to chat to you today.
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It's great to have you and this new season of portfolio careers and, obviously, hearing your views on that from your perspective, because you, I believe, have a kind of psychology background.
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That's right.
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Yeah, so we'll come at it as a different angle, potentially.
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And when I've been thinking about this portfolio career journey, I suppose that many of us go on or want to go on.
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It seems to me there's the kind of the why period is why I actually want this for myself, the motivations behind it.
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Then the what is what am I actually going to do as a portfolio career?
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What are the options available to me?
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And then the how, which is putting it into practice and creating an action plan around that.
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So I think, given your background and we've talked before about values, obviously, people's motivations and behaviors, et cetera how important, well, they are important.
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How important do you think values are in this portfolio career journey?
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I would say critical and I'd say the driving force behind why people decide to make big changes to their careers and have a portfolio career.
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So perhaps you should take a step back and define what values are.
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So, how I see values are their fundamental beliefs and principles that help us guide the choices that we make, things that we think, things that we do, things that we believe, and they're pretty deeply held convictions that we have.
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They are generally very stable throughout life, although they do fluctuate, and I like to think about as dialing up in priority and dialing down depending on what life stage that we're at and what kind of responsibilities are things that are happening in our life.
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So, essentially, values reflect what are important to us and, to this point, when people are looking at something as fundamental as what we're doing for work because we spend the majority of our waking hours in work often and, if we're working with other people, more hours with them than we do with our loved ones sometimes and so certainly being as fulfilled and satisfied in work as possible can have a huge halo effect on the other areas of our life and things are going well in work, we feel good in other areas of our life and we're not so good.
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They can reflect back and we all know people coming home to the household, be they flatmates, partners, siblings, parents can be tough when someone has had a tough day at work or ongoing tough day.
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So some people decide they want to make a fundamental shift in career and these days I guess we're living longer and we are having longer careers and thankfully society's attitudes towards older folks has become more positive here in the in the West and there's always been respect, I feel, for older folks and wisdom, experience, the contributions that older folks make to society, which I love and I'm really glad to see that kind of increasing here in the West in general.
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And it's not surprising to see people in their 60s and their 70s and even in their 80s who have a wealth of experience and wisdom and knowledge to share and still working in some capacity, perhaps in a different way, perhaps more in a lecturing or mentoring or, you know, speaking way, but also leading companies or signing up their own thing, and so I feel what's behind this are fundamental values.
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So someone, for example, has been working in a corporate environment for 10, 15, 20 years.
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They might have had a lot of stimulation, a lot of challenge a lot of change, feel that they have learned a lot, but they might come to a point where they're like Do you know what this?
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I've kind of reached my level now and I could stay here and do this for another 20 years, but actually there's a niggle of dissatisfaction or a huge urge to change and I'm feeling that I can't possibly show up online or in the office on Monday morning to do this again.
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I will scream, and that's when I find people can start listening or start tuning into what's what's not happening in my work life, that I need to be happening and often, as you will know, as a coach, I said if we do a values exercise with someone like us, we realize that a value of theirs is not being expressed or it's been restricted in some way, or they just don't have the ability to tap into a value of theirs.
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That's important.
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And that value.
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Actually, I think an example I had the other day with a client was family obviously really high on the list of values.
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Actually, I think, when he talked about transitions, that transition to being a new parent changes those values.
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Or, as you say, maybe the dialing up or dialing down changes because we have different priorities, different perspective on life and then our values are therefore different.
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I know I had that, incredibly, my kids were born.
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So if you're, if you suddenly have a new value of real family and connection with family and children and etc.
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And you're working a 70 hour week, then you've automatically you automatically driving against that core value of yours and you're going to feel so, you're going to feel that anxiety and you're going to bring anxiety home with you and then it's going to spill out into more areas of your life than you want and it's not contained anymore within that work bubble.
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It starts to spill into different areas and I think that's I say when it becomes that niggler.
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This has satisfaction is how quickly should one act on that niggle, yeah, as opposed to waiting for that point where I think I've now, I've had it up to here and I need to do something drastic.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And so I I would say, always listen to the niggles and try to voice them, be they niggles in your knee or your hip or your elbow, or niggles in your mind about what's happening for you in work, talking to someone about it, perhaps finding someone who's in a similar situation to use similar stage or someone who's further down the track than you are, and regardless of age, I think it's more about you know stage, work stage or family stage.
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In that instance and certainly I have found which has encouraged me as well A lot of the male clients that I have who have become parents are also talking about work life balance and also trying to figure out how can they be there to support their kids and to have a more equal workload in the household.
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And they, particularly the ones who are in their thirties, really seem some of them really seem to have quite a strong sense of responsibility and understanding that they are a parent as much as the mother is, and that does really encourage me and that is a big shift and a big change.
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And they are trying to figure out how can they get more non-work hours back in their life in order to do the things that they want to do and also, which I like as well, and I feel women can learn from men in this regard, is that they want to find time for their interests and their passions.
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So maybe they like swimming, maybe they like running, maybe they're interested in art.
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How can they carve out the precious one or two hours of adult me time in a week to do the thing for them?
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And certainly when I'm talking to female clients who talk a lot about work life balance and family responsibilities, trying to carve out those couple of hours for yourself and your own interests.
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And again coming back to values that can allow a value of creativity to be exist or a value of learning, of self development, of independence and autonomy, because it's important to feel like an adult woman or an adult man, not just a mum and a housekeeper and an employee or employer.
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Yeah, I think that's where the portfolio career opportunities come in.
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I guess is that, again, it doesn't have to be a drastic, not a change of career, because portfolio implies there are multiple things happening.
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So we're not talking about a career change per se, but about bringing other things in to complement, I guess, what you are.
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You still have what you've done for 20 years or whatever it is.
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And to your point about a value of creativity or value of independence, I suppose then would you agree that, if you have, you could potentially reduce hours in your normal job, let's say, and introduce something else into your week that then taps into that value that you desire, even if perhaps your main role or career isn't quite sick in those boxes.
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Yeah, exactly so.
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Portfolio career to me generally implies a mix and a blend of employed roles so the traditional, normal nine to five or whatever the hours are and something freelance and or kind of a side protector, side hustle, as Americans like to describe it.
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And so generally people are reducing hours in the employed part to enable them to do something more freelance, and often the first place that people start is teaching something or mentoring or getting involved in conveying the information and experience that they built up to others.
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So it could be your hobby, your sailing or football or art or music and you start maybe within a local club with coaching or doing private lessons, or we're doing something online or getting involved in a school sort of local educational institution, and it can be a nice first step and a nice transition because you're already working on an area that's a passion for you and that you've got deep and extensive knowledge, so you feel quite competent in that area and it's a nice easy step out.
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Some people can, as you say, make big changes, and I think there are two things that have kind of enabled this.
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One is technological advancements, so that idea of being a digital nomad where, if you have no caring responsibilities at home.
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You can up and leave and move to Indonesia or Australia or.
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That sounds marvellous, never mind about the kids.
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With your laptop and do the thing that you love online.
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Some people might do graphic design or might do digital marketing or communications and continue the work that they have based at home, but just in a different location.
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I think the other piece that has underpinned it are societal expectations or beliefs around what's kind of good or correct or acceptable.
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Terrible when we are subject to other people's opinions, but it is a real force that can impact how people make their decisions, and the idea of a stable nine to five job that you stay in for 50 years is no longer the only path that you can take in your career, and there's a much more.
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We can see more examples around us of acquaintances, friends and family or former colleagues who have either changed location or stayed, but stepped out of a regular nine to five type role and stepped into something that's more fluid.
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Yeah, and I think it's finding the catalyst, isn't it?
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So if you are, if you're feeling confident and grounded in your values and confident in the decisions that you make, which not all of us are it's a hard place to get to sometimes then maybe we can say I want to try this, I'm going to confidently try this, I'm going to work alongside this and things sort of work out for you, but for others my guest in this season, lee, who is a portfolio career parent, if you like redundancy is one of the first things quite a while ago now that spurred him into action to think about okay, I need to future-proof my career because redundancies might happen again in the future.
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What does that mean for my career?
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So he took that catalyst to work out what he could do alongside his normal career role, if you like, and ended up being personal trainer and doing all those things.
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So I suppose the catalyst to that career not diversion, what you call it, but things changing if you haven't got that catalyst like redundancy, how can you start to think about what might work for you?
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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I guess it's back to levels of fulfilment and satisfaction and what you're currently doing in your role.
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And I often find when I bring the perspective to folks and I ask them, how long more will you be working, and they kind of go wow, I've been working for 15 years and I'm going to be working for another 25 or 30.
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Suddenly, that extent of time rolling out in front of them either inspires them and go God, this is really exciting.
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I can try something and maybe I need to take a dip in income, I need to figure out that financial piece, but I'm excited about trying to build and feeling that I regret more the things that I don't do rather than things that I do do.
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Or people get a shock and a fright and go oh my God, I've a whole 30 years, 35 years out of me.
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I can't possibly stay in the thing that I'm in now and do that for longer than I've already been doing it.
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So there can be a kind of a positive feeling that can spur you into action and at least planning or imagining what you could do differently, or a negative feeling.
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Ideally we don't want to dwell in too much right, because negative feelings motivating us to do stuff tend to impact our decision making in a not so great way.
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But to think, ok, turn that, 30 years still to go into a right.
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This is an opportunity, not a scary thing.
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And I often ask people as well how many hours do you spend in work and how many hours left over do you have?
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And when they really realize we're spending the majority of our waking hours in work, that's when they think, yeah, I deserve it.
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I owe it to myself to try to bring in the things that I am more interested by or that fulfilled me more in work to it, and not to say that work needs to be your lifestyle.
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It's perfectly acceptable to do a job that keeps you moderately happy or satisfied and spend more of the time in the things that you love outside of work, but upping the moments where you feel excuse me energized and that you're making a positive contribution and that you're leading towards some sort of greater goal or greater contribution to society or thing generally means that we are happier.
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Yeah, I mean, there's a knife.
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Overall, yeah, and I think there's this not a sticker, necessarily, but a view that if you decide to have a portfolio career and again, I suppose a portfolio career aren't words that we would normally use outside of the coaching environment, but of adding something new, varied, et cetera then are we saying then you want to.
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You're not as ambitious, for example, or you want to reduce your working hours in your career because you're not as ambitious and you might want to do something a bit quiet on the side.
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So does it feel like you can still be ambitious, you can still want to drive your career forward with a portfolio career option?
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Yeah, I absolutely believe that.
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I absolutely believe that because I think it's a really brave thing to do.
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It's really brave to leave a stable work environment where you've built up the wealth of experience and knowledge and contacts and to go out and do something very different, or even to reduce down your time and that and go out and try something different.
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And I think the majority of people actually look at other folks and think, wow, that's brave Perhaps a change of envy or jealousy, but I really think it's so brave and I think it's people plowing their own furrow.
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I would say over here, you know making your own path in life and being very confident in what's good for you, those around you.
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You know to go ahead and do it.
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And funny, you mentioned about your guest who was spurred on by redundancy situation.
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So in my own case, I set up my coaching practice following a redundancy from a tech company that I chose.
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I took some time off and I remember talking to friends then saying, oh, I think you know, rather than leaning in like Cheryl Sandberg says, I think I want to lean out.
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I'm just going to set up my own thing.
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And remember them looking at me setting up your own business.
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You're labelling that as leaning out, Like, are you nuts?
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I was like, yeah, that's true, that is being brave and taking a punt on myself and saying, right, I'm going to set goals and in three months I want this to happen, in six months I want this to happen.
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This is the hard line, you know either these things are happening or it's not working out.
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So I change and I think of something different, and for me personally, stability and security are massive values of mine.
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Yet I was stepping out of a very well paid, high flying tech role and not looking for another one, but going and doing my own thing.
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I'm not in a financial situation, but it allowed my values of autonomy, a work balance and that entrepreneurial spirit that I always wondered.
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Would I ever be able to set free a little bit?
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And you know kind of, I guess, a challenge.
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I do like a good level challenge and intellectual stimulation.
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So there were a whole set of skills and things that I needed to learn in setting these up and I found that those really, really energized me.
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It was great and I'd always I'd always love coaching, mentoring, managing people.
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That was the thing that really energized me at the end of the day and I've had literally hundreds of career conversations with folks and teams that I've managed over the years and I always ask them when you shut down your laptop at the end of the day and it's been a good day and you think to yourself I've killed it and what's the thing that's happened, and I finally took my own advice and said to him for myself I was like helping other people figure out their career paths, that's what I love.
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I don't know if it sounds like the most exciting thing, but it is really what I love.
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So I said I'd go for it and try it and thankfully it's working out so far.
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So but that's I mean I was lucky in that I had people around me, friends and family, who were supportive.
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And, on a pragmatic front, there's a strong kind of local office, local enterprise office network here in Ireland where you can go to get business advice, you know, to figure out what grants are available, to understand how to run a business.
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Because I would say, for folks considering your portfolio career, if you want to go out and set up as a civil trader or as a company on your own, you might have a lot of skills and experience in the thing itself, be that art, music, business, mentoring, whatever it is.
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But running a business is a very different set of skills and it does take quite a bit of time and, at the end of the day, we need to earn money to pay our bills, which are ever increasing due to the crisis, because of living crisis.
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So that's an important thing to think about.
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So I think when, if someone is reviewing their values and thinking, if I'm going to have a portfolio career, what values will my portfolio career allow me to express or fulfill that aren't being fulfilled right now, I think it's sensible to check those values that maybe will not be fulfilled or maybe will be contradicting.
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For example in Mike's or other folks case, that I know the security and stability.
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Like, how am I plugging back up?
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I love teamwork, I love collaborating, it's really best.
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But as a solo business owner, how do I, you know, bring in acquaintances, colleagues, you know I have a supervisor and so on, but how do I build some sort of team around me or networks of people to tap into so that I don't feel I'm sitting alone in my bedroom?
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It's very bedroom gone crazy.
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Yeah, interestingly that's funny because you mentioned that and I've never thought about it till just now Is that my career is currently I suppose you could say, portfolio, because coach by day, podcast host by night, for example, are two different strings on the same kind of bow but different, you know, different parts I'm taking with the most.
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But actually to your point about the values I'm meeting through that and I'm hugely.
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My connection is a huge value for me.
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I love being with people.
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I hate being on my own.
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I can't bear it.
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Board my own company in about three minutes.
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So actually I was suffering, as you have just said, from being a solo business owner in the spare room.
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Yes, connection through coaching clients, all through, you know, through screens, but actually the podcast then has given me a real sense of connection with people and a real way to expand my network and talk to people on a very different level.
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So that's then ticking that value box of connection which I used to have when I was in a busy office, busy, busy office.
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So it's interesting I don't think I'd actually thought about it that way that even subconsciously I was taking myself down a path to find that value or to have that value, have that value met somehow.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, interesting yeah.
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Just think about what you said about taking a punt on yourself.
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Yeah, I think that's such a valuable statement, especially given we come to working parents and often working moms that we talk to quite a lot where your confidence can take quite a hit or quite a knock from a career point of view when you get back to work on having kids, and there's a lot of people saying, you know, am I still valuable at work?
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I haven't got anything to offer.
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All these kind of self doubt can creep in quite easily in those first stages, certainly, of motherhood and parenthood.
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So, actually just having the confidence to take to actually back yourself for once, to put yourself first which often we don't do and say, actually this is what I want and I believe I can do it.
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So I think even value decide is just having that strength of character.
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Yeah, to say that you're as you did, put yourself first and back yourself.
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Yeah, and I think think about your, your why, why are you doing it?
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You know, and in those moments where it's tough, step back and think, okay, what's the bigger picture?
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What's the 5000 meter view?
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Am I doing what I'm doing?
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And for me it was genuinely about helping people.
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I often hesitate to say that I lied because it sounds twee or unoriginal, but it is.
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It's the thing that's always.
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You know, that's always kind of energised me or made me feel fulfilled and work.
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But I can think of other people, like two women in particular.
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I'm thinking you just really wanted to change the world.
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And one is someone that I went to school with, had worked in office as an office manager, went back retrained in finance, got into stockbroking and wealth management to senior leadership level, then left, took some time out and founded a company, got into MedTech.
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She's EO and it's a.
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It's in the medical device bracket.
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So it's a shield that measures breastfeeding, the volume of breast milk that comes, particularly for premature or sick babies, because breast milk, you know, the most nutritious and healthy substance that a newborn can have.
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But measuring the quantity for sick babies is is super important.
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So it's painted, it's going through clinical trials, it is a truly global effort.
00:24:22.085 --> 00:24:24.484
It's an amazing company.
00:24:24.484 --> 00:24:31.574
It's gone through really great fundraising rounds and is set to go to market soon.
00:24:31.574 --> 00:24:34.489
It's been a six year journey maybe.
00:24:34.489 --> 00:25:02.190
So huge amount of bravery, of sacrifice, of skill learning, of connecting, of flying around the world, you know, getting involved in clinical trials with her two business partners and it's it's so admirable and it's so admirable to see, you know, someone making a huge leap from something wealth management, wealth creation through to something that is health and for small children and for, you know, helping families in a very vulnerable and scary situation.
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:21.851
I can think of someone else who was kind of in sustainability in a campaign director role, then went back and did a full time master's, actually in LSE and London School of Economics and then did a centre at the UN doing peace building fascinating.
00:25:21.851 --> 00:25:23.113
Dabbled in journalism.
00:25:23.113 --> 00:25:45.686
Then lived in the States for a while and got into retail, in sales, you know, in an apparel company, and now has founded her own company which is a tech platform connecting parents with childcare options, be they nannies, au pairs, crashes, whatever in a local area, but based on values.
00:25:45.686 --> 00:25:56.084
So often we choose our childminders based on availability and cost and we kind of forget about our really important these thinking through what our parenting philosophy, how do we want to raise our kids?
00:25:56.084 --> 00:25:57.808
You know what kind of style are we using?
00:25:57.808 --> 00:26:03.371
So she matches minders based on similar philosophies and similar values, which I think is amazing.
00:26:03.371 --> 00:26:13.009
And also companies can kind of onboard in this platform so that they are subsidising or fully funding the cost of childcare for parents.
00:26:13.009 --> 00:26:23.881
It's in a bid to a tackle the gender pay gap because, you know, more women are dropping out of their work due to caring responsibilities for families and be like.
00:26:23.881 --> 00:26:26.488
I love how Kate articulates it.
00:26:26.807 --> 00:26:32.686
Here in Ireland the government fund has a bike, bike to work scheme so you can buy a bike tax free.
00:26:32.686 --> 00:26:36.406
So it's 50% off, essentially to get yourself to work on a bicycle.
00:26:36.406 --> 00:26:42.346
It's environmentally friendly, it's good for health, that's good for the nation, it cuts down on traffic jams and so on and so forth.
00:26:42.346 --> 00:26:54.243
The next big barrier to people getting to work in a healthy, sustainable and more stress free way is childcare that's available and you've got a backup plan and even a backup plan to the backup plan.
00:26:54.243 --> 00:26:57.269
So that's the philosophy she's coming up with with the platform.
00:26:57.269 --> 00:27:07.140
So I love in those two examples of happen to be women who have been working in very different areas and then just decided to know what I'm going to try and change the world Like.
00:27:07.140 --> 00:27:13.867
Literally try and change the world in an international sense with a product or a platform that's going to really make a difference.
00:27:13.867 --> 00:27:20.211
That's, I think, very genuine examples of very big extreme examples of portfolio careers.
00:27:20.732 --> 00:27:23.929
Yeah, and both those examples that experimented, haven't they what you're saying?
00:27:23.929 --> 00:27:26.098
They've tried various different things.
00:27:26.098 --> 00:27:32.188
It's not just sort of making one decision and then saying this is it, now I've got a follow, this path, add in for an item.
00:27:32.188 --> 00:27:36.490
It's actually just being open to exploring possibilities and changing your mind.
00:27:36.490 --> 00:27:37.865
I'm saying, do you know what?
00:27:37.865 --> 00:27:45.990
This one's not quite working for me, or it's not quite aligned to my values or my income needs or my flexibility is whatever it might be, so I'm going to try something else.
00:27:45.990 --> 00:27:51.486
The second example you gave sounds like she's tried multiple things before then finding herself on this current path.
00:27:52.185 --> 00:27:54.038
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:54.038 --> 00:28:04.761
No, it can be very inspiring to hear about these stories and I think as well, something that can hold us back in many areas is that fear of failure or that fear of what might others think.
00:28:04.761 --> 00:28:15.882
The fear of failure is a real unpowerful force and we can think through all the reasons that it might not work out or won't work out and what might people think.
00:28:15.882 --> 00:28:19.015
They might laugh or might think I'm silly, or might think who does she think she is?
00:28:19.015 --> 00:28:32.823
Of course that wasn't going to work and it does take bravery and pragmatic things like planning and assessing and creating the narrative for yourself and for other people to maybe keep them at bay.
00:28:32.823 --> 00:28:39.015
You know, keep the naysayers at arm's length and say you know, I'm trying this, things are going really well.
00:28:39.015 --> 00:28:41.015
You don't need to get into the details.
00:28:41.015 --> 00:28:45.653
You know, not everyone is privileged to have access to the information that you have.
00:28:45.653 --> 00:28:52.769
You know, keep it to the smaller circle so that you're not allowing the cynics in and to see negatively.
00:28:54.357 --> 00:29:06.707
And I think it is sensible to be stepping out of a paid employee position into something you're starting up yourself, or if it's reducing errors and taking on something freelance or some sort of side project.
00:29:06.707 --> 00:29:10.085
It is sensible to have goals and to think about.
00:29:10.085 --> 00:29:16.761
You know how am I going to assess whether I'm doing well and keeping the goals achievable with a little bit of stretch?
00:29:16.761 --> 00:29:26.974
Because confidence comes from experience and from doing, and when you're doing and you achieve what you set out to do, you get that kick of dopamine, that kick of serotonin.
00:29:26.974 --> 00:29:32.974
You know that pride and that happiness and that boost of confidence thinking oh, I can do this, this is going okay.
00:29:32.974 --> 00:29:41.015
And now if you're four goals that you write down to maybe you hit and to you don't, but you're halfway there, that's also positive.
00:29:41.015 --> 00:29:49.015
Nobody gets 100% the first time, I know you're sending yourself a profile.
00:29:49.015 --> 00:29:55.445
So I think, keeping it realistic, and I think also as life unfolds, we realize now often 80% is good enough.
00:29:55.445 --> 00:29:58.580
Yeah, yeah, it's better than perfect.
00:29:58.662 --> 00:30:11.587
As a mantra that Facebook now met, I have around the place and I love it done is better than perfect, and I think, particularly for anyone listening or anyone who's a parent, we can certainly relate to that.
00:30:11.587 --> 00:30:13.625
You know it doesn't matter if the house is a bit messy.
00:30:13.625 --> 00:30:15.015
I know it feels like it matters.
00:30:15.015 --> 00:30:17.015
Maybe we like that sense of control.
00:30:17.015 --> 00:30:19.282
It wasn't actually matter, you know.
00:30:20.439 --> 00:30:26.807
And what about when you put alongside that so that's your own, in your own control, if you like is your goals.
00:30:26.807 --> 00:30:39.223
You're trying to not to be a perfectionist, all of kind of things, but I found the biggest struggle for me and still is four years into having this business is comparing myself to others, so trying something new.
00:30:39.223 --> 00:30:42.015
You've got the naysayers, obviously, which you can, as you say, try and keep it bay.
00:30:42.015 --> 00:30:52.015
Yeah, then you've also got your own tendency, especially in this social media, instagram world we live in, to compare yourself against someone else who's doing something similar.
00:30:52.276 --> 00:31:01.382
So as soon as you mentioned those two examples of these women changing the world, my initial reaction was oh my gosh, I'm not changing the world so, straight away.
00:31:01.382 --> 00:31:04.015
There's a feeling of you know, why are I doing as well as they are?
00:31:04.015 --> 00:31:06.015
Why am I achieving more than they are?
00:31:06.015 --> 00:31:10.826
Why am I changing things more fundamentally for this world we live in than just my little bit?
00:31:10.826 --> 00:31:13.884
And that's, I think, just natural human nature to do that.
00:31:13.884 --> 00:31:17.040
But how do we manage that?
00:31:17.040 --> 00:31:19.326
So it doesn't get in our way.
00:31:21.215 --> 00:31:28.015
Yeah, it's a difficult one and I don't think there is a magic solution that can work overnight.
00:31:28.015 --> 00:31:33.015
I think it's probably a more midterm thing for us to work on our thoughts and our beliefs.
00:31:33.015 --> 00:31:35.038
What's the phrase?
00:31:35.038 --> 00:31:37.786
Comparison is the thief of joy, Is that correct?
00:31:37.786 --> 00:31:42.545
Yeah, social media is the worst thing and the best thing in the world.
00:31:42.545 --> 00:31:47.925
I know that I can certainly get in a trap of doom scrolling.
00:31:47.925 --> 00:31:50.338
I think it's called and I can't stop.
00:31:50.538 --> 00:32:08.801
And I know it's a neurological, physiological thing, whatever the neurotransmitters floating around my body are getting left open for me and it's terrible and I need to leave my phone outside of my bedroom or knock it on at all and delete the apps even for a week, because it is that comparison.
00:32:08.801 --> 00:32:26.218
So what I do know, and what I coach and what I try to take my own advice on, is we are always comparing our behind scenes reels every thought, every doubt, every possibility, every imagined future that we've thought through, everything that we could or should do.
00:32:26.218 --> 00:33:01.741
We're comparing all of that to a sizzle reel of someone else, the highlights and the very nicely edited social media highlights, and you just don't have access to the doubts and the mistakes and the failures, although these days there certainly is more of a tendency for people to admit mistakes and failures than to kind of go, hey, it's okay, this is how I learned, but there's still glossy and nicely presented and nicely edited and, yes, everything worked out amazing in the end, like things don't always work out after mistakes or failures, but we don't hear it.
00:33:01.741 --> 00:33:07.646
So we start to think that the only outcomes are positive for other people.
00:33:07.646 --> 00:33:09.421
So why is that happening to me?
00:33:09.421 --> 00:33:13.625
I think we need to bear in mind we don't have a full data set.
00:33:13.625 --> 00:33:16.015
We only have a part of the light.
00:33:16.015 --> 00:33:21.358
We're looking through a keyhole and only seeing a small part of the picture, not the full thing.
00:33:21.358 --> 00:33:44.015
So I think that's first and also so when I used to work in Google, I did for 10 years a company full of very bright people, a lot of side projects and things, olympic medals here and businesses there and whatever like crazy amounts of overachievement and I suffered a lot from imposter syndrome when I joined and, gosh, what do I have to offer?
00:33:44.838 --> 00:33:46.627
But I was like, no, I was hired.
00:33:46.627 --> 00:33:47.994
I was hired for a reason.
00:33:47.994 --> 00:33:50.346
The reason was I was ex-ad agency.
00:33:50.346 --> 00:33:51.994
I was in the Google ads part.
00:33:51.994 --> 00:34:04.867
We were trying to encourage clients to invest more of their digital marketing budget into Google search and YouTube, and I had planned and bought TV space and radio space and press space for years.
00:34:04.867 --> 00:34:09.907
So I had access to who was making the decision, how are decisions actually made and when.
00:34:09.907 --> 00:34:11.498
So that was the reason I was hired.
00:34:11.599 --> 00:34:15.556
Not because I knew a lot about search market and search advertising I didn't.
00:34:15.556 --> 00:34:17.804
Or YouTube advertising because I didn't.
00:34:17.804 --> 00:34:25.849
So I just kept pulling my mind back to there is a reason and there you know, you know something that others don't.
00:34:25.849 --> 00:34:29.226
So kind of I guess at the time.
00:34:29.226 --> 00:34:32.014
Like for that, for the beginning, I decided to kind of stay in my lane.
00:34:32.014 --> 00:34:34.905
It's like this is the one thing that I'm going to be known for.
00:34:34.905 --> 00:34:41.974
I'm the person who knows how media agencies operate and I'm always going to bring that and I'm just going to try and not get sucked into.
00:34:41.974 --> 00:34:45.503
Oh my God, everyone else knows so much more about search than I do.
00:34:45.864 --> 00:34:51.724
I'm picking up and I think the word yet can be useful, very useful.
00:34:51.724 --> 00:34:52.987
I don't know that yet.
00:34:53.737 --> 00:35:11.862
I don't understand how it works yet, and it's again a matter of time and belief and that yet has come to come to a sense of confidence that you will get there, yeah, and it's fine to take the time at your own pace or whatever.
00:35:11.862 --> 00:35:13.666
The again scenario is yeah.
00:35:14.755 --> 00:35:32.014
Yeah, and I can remember a specific incident, incident about maybe three years in or so, sorry, just a situation where my boss who was wonderful and fabulous, also knew to the company and said and I said, oh, I don't understand this, can you explain it to me?
00:35:32.014 --> 00:35:43.824
And I was mind blown that someone so senior and with all the experience not that she didn't know it, but that she was so unapologetically and normally saying, oh, I don't know this, can you teach it to me?
00:35:43.824 --> 00:35:47.362
So the person did teach it to her and then she knew it for the next time.
00:35:47.362 --> 00:35:55.717
And that is so inspiring to see someone so humble just learning the thing that they didn't know and modeling to a whole team.
00:35:55.717 --> 00:36:14.628
She had quite a big team, I think 50 people that when you don't know something, just say it, learn it, move on to the next thing, and I don't even realize in the moment, but with sometimes we can feel a need to maybe hide our gaps or the things that we don't know, rather than focus on the things that we do know and pull in our resources.
00:36:14.829 --> 00:36:31.050
Pull in other people, ask Google, ask, chat, chat, upt another human what it is or collaborate with someone you know, and often people are very flattered when we ask them about their expertise and their knowledge or for help, you know often do want to help.
00:36:31.659 --> 00:36:33.766
Yeah, and it gives that two way value, doesn't it?
00:36:33.766 --> 00:36:39.876
It gives back that value of connection yeah, it's genuine connection when you're asking for help or giving someone help.
00:36:39.876 --> 00:36:47.628
Yeah, it sort of breaks down some of those walls, I think, and allows people to be more vulnerable and therefore more, hopefully, more honest and open to connections.
00:36:48.039 --> 00:36:48.742
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:48.742 --> 00:36:50.710
So the yeah, the shards are what?
00:36:50.710 --> 00:36:51.835
Comparing to other people.
00:36:51.835 --> 00:36:57.061
The thing is there's always someone looking at you and thinking, wow, they're amazing, I wish I could do what they do.
00:36:57.061 --> 00:37:04.210
Yeah, it seems to have such a diverse business and you know they've got a great work like balance, and they really seem to be passionate about what they're doing.
00:37:04.471 --> 00:37:07.628
And for someone like you know you're you're doing it in the public eye.
00:37:07.628 --> 00:37:10.061
You know there's this vulnerability there.
00:37:10.061 --> 00:37:19.617
So for me, I think it was thinking through the worst case scenario If this business doesn't work, what then?
00:37:19.617 --> 00:37:33.900
Yeah, and part of me was like, well, those naysayers who are thinking, who does she think she is setting it up and who knows who they are they're presumably imagine imaginary people in my head as like, okay, well, I'm going to craft a three sentence narrative to say I tried it.
00:37:33.900 --> 00:37:35.306
You know I didn't really.
00:37:35.306 --> 00:37:36.869
You know I actually didn't like it.
00:37:36.869 --> 00:37:38.925
I thought that I'd love it, but this is the bit that I didn't like.
00:37:38.925 --> 00:37:43.009
So now I'm doing this and I love this because of X1, is it and move the conversation on.
00:37:43.009 --> 00:37:48.969
You know, just create a story that's short, generic, honest.
00:37:48.969 --> 00:37:50.434
I move on.
00:37:50.434 --> 00:37:52.621
Nobody's thinking about me longer than three seconds.
00:37:52.621 --> 00:37:53.987
Everyone think it's themselves.
00:37:55.362 --> 00:37:55.824
What are we?
00:37:55.824 --> 00:38:05.452
We're all the fish and ships terminology that today's newspapers tomorrow, tomorrow's fish and ships wrapper, wrapper, and that's what we are, aren't we, you know?
00:38:05.452 --> 00:38:08.092
We think that we're sort of focused on one else's tension.
00:38:08.092 --> 00:38:09.018
We're not really.
00:38:09.018 --> 00:38:21.563
We just need to, as you say, stay in our lane, explore, be curious, stay true to our values, do what's right for us at this moment in time and our families, et cetera, and then, just if it doesn't work out, we'll need to change them.
00:38:22.425 --> 00:38:22.726
Yeah.
00:38:23.146 --> 00:38:24.028
Go with the flow a bit more.
00:38:24.048 --> 00:38:31.014
I suppose within a few seconds when I feel, as you talk down, I hear my words back at me, feel I'm contradicting myself a little bit.
00:38:31.014 --> 00:38:34.840
So I'm talking about staying in your lane and I'm talking about portfolio careers.
00:38:34.840 --> 00:38:49.969
So for me, the staying in my lane grid was when I moved to something new and I was like the expertise and the knowledge and the skills that I'm bringing to this, that's the best that I'm staying in and I'm not going to get sucked into thinking I need to be like everyone else here.
00:38:49.969 --> 00:39:11.574
And then when I decided to change, I was like okay, it was back to the more fundamental things around what motivates me, what gets me out of bed in the morning, the values that I want, how do I want to live my life, and a big thing for me post COVID, like a lot of people, was cutting the aid on the commute because I'd no time for interest, hobbies, kids and that bit of autonomy.
00:39:12.737 --> 00:39:14.804
Working in a big corporate is getting so big, so big.
00:39:14.804 --> 00:39:19.081
You know you don't have the opportunity to do things your way as much.
00:39:19.081 --> 00:39:32.751
So there are times, I think, when I think, when the self-doubt or the comparing to others creeps in, like you know, hunker down and really understand your own strengths and skills and why you're doing it for you.
00:39:32.751 --> 00:39:38.070
You know your values are different to other people, so it doesn't matter what other people are, often because they've got different values.
00:39:38.070 --> 00:39:43.269
Beauty of the human race all the diversity and variety that we have.
00:39:45.380 --> 00:39:46.605
Thank you so much, claire.
00:39:46.605 --> 00:39:50.563
How can people get hold of you so if they're a mid-career professional?
00:39:50.563 --> 00:39:53.197
I know this conversation has resonated, which I'm sure we'll do.
00:39:53.197 --> 00:39:54.643
Where's the best place to find you?
00:39:55.239 --> 00:39:56.663
Yeah, sure, I have a website.
00:39:56.663 --> 00:39:59.108
It's claercarroll-coachingcom.
00:39:59.108 --> 00:40:01.070
I'm also on LinkedIn.
00:40:01.070 --> 00:40:02.373
It's claercarroll.
00:40:02.373 --> 00:40:06.170
I think I'm connected to you on LinkedIn so people can find your page.
00:40:06.440 --> 00:40:09.409
And I'll put all your details in the notes as well, anyway, so people can find you.
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:23.769
Brilliant, thanks so much so yeah, so I do, you know, an initial chance to figure out what the challenge or decision or situation is ahead of you and then, if we feel chemistry is good and I feel that I can help you, we can crack on to figuring out the details.
00:40:24.721 --> 00:40:25.163
Perfect.
00:40:25.163 --> 00:40:25.844
Thank you so much.
00:40:25.844 --> 00:40:27.469
And then tons in this conversation.
00:40:27.469 --> 00:40:31.289
For those people who are at that stage, I'm sure of thinking where they, where their careers, might take them.
00:40:31.289 --> 00:40:34.068
So thank you so much for sharing your insights and your time today.
00:40:34.661 --> 00:40:35.063
I'm excited.
00:40:35.063 --> 00:40:35.824
It was a real pleasure.
00:40:35.824 --> 00:40:37.302
The time flew, I did.
00:40:37.302 --> 00:40:39.047
Thank you, claire, take care.
00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:40.121
To work with me.
00:40:40.121 --> 00:40:49.586
Find out more at ishamariecom, connect with me on LinkedIn or check out my free resources and quizzes at ishamariecom.