Retrospective 5: Kelly and The Pandemic

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Hey, everyone.
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This Thursday, September 24th, is the last day that you
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can buy tickets for the Berkshire Podcast Retreat, where we're
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celebrating my 10 years in podcasting. Come to the Berkshires,
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hang out with me, Amanda Jacobson from Wine and Crime,
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Justin and Aaron from Generation Y, Patrick Hines from True
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Crime Obsessed, Charlie Worrell from Crime Lines, writer and dear
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friend of the show, Clémence Michelon, and many, many others
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as we gather together to celebrate 10 years via activities
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here in the Berkshires, studio sessions, and an incredible live show.
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To get your tickets today, go to bothand.fyi. If you've
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been thinking about joining Patreon, now is the time as
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we go into a new season of true crime bullshit.
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Next week, we are launching the TCB Research Lab. to
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certain tiers on Patreon. Members can join this online portal
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and access tons of research, playlists, Israel Keyes' interviews, case files, maps,
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the timeline, and so much more. You can also chat
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with other listeners, share your theories, and brainstorm on the case.
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The TCB Research Lab launches next week, but you can
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join Patreon today at patreon.com slash studio both And... Hey everyone!
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With Costa Rica less than two months away and Galapagos
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just four months away, you might be wondering what's next
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for our international adventures. Well, it's a country straight out
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of the storybooks, full of castles, gorgeous landscapes, and naturally, wine.
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Right now, Slovenia is one of Europe's best-kept secrets. It's
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set in the foothills of the Alps and along the
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Adriatic Sea in the Mediterranean. Slovenia is the place everyone
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will be talking about next year, and we have the
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chance to be there in June. I want you to
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join me for an experience that goes beyond the typical tour,
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because this isn't just about the views. It's about slowing down, connecting,
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shopping probably, and experiencing something truly new together. And, of course,
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wine tasting. We're filling up pretty fast. If you're one
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of the first eight to book, you get $ 200 off
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your trip, and there's only four of those spots left.
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So book now. Let's make some memories together in Slovenia.
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Just click the link in the show notes or go
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to bothand.fyi. This is a Studio Both And production. Seasons
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one and two of True Crime Bullshit were a chaotic blur.
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I produced and published two seasons in just 14 months.
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Just as I wrapped season one, I found out that
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one of our cats had terminal cancer and likely only
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had about a month left to live. So I again
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packed up and this time departed the Berkshires to go
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back to Bed-Stuy. Returning to Brooklyn was harsh. I'd been
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away for several months and I was returning to a
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place that ramped up my anxiety and triggered my CPTSD.
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I was also returning to my now estranged partner and
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the impending loss of our cat. From the moment I arrived,
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I knew that couldn't be my life anymore. But what
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I didn't know was how to reconcile the parts that
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I loved with my need to escape. I knew my
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home could never be home again. We spent as much
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time as possible with our cat Sophia. We reconnected. And
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I started working on season two of the show. Back then,
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there was a mere weeks between seasons. Something I, to
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this day, still don't know how I managed. It was
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during this time that I met Kaz, the first member
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of the research team, back before the research team was
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even a thing. We'd been booked to speak together at
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an event in New Jersey. And so she took the
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train down to Brooklyn with her partner Dan, and we
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opened my giant Israel Keys map in a beer hall
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in Fort Greene. And quickly, my obsession became hers. Due
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to both her experience and her person, I trusted Kaz immediately,
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which was something incredibly foreign to me. We became fast friends, confidants,
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and Kaz became the person I went to with ethics, legal,
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and moral quandaries and concerns. And for the first time
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in the process of making TCB, I didn't feel alone
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in it. That event that we were booked for never happened,
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but I'm so glad that it pretended it was going to.
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Two months after my return to New York, Sophia died,
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and I told my partner I couldn't do New York anymore.
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After much debate, we finally landed on moving to North
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Adams in the Berkshires. And so, We began looking at
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houses and figuring out what our lives might look like there.
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It was a massive sacrifice for Andrew, one that now
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I don't take lightly. He'd been working in apparel design,
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and obviously that was not going to be a career
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option in our eventual home base of 13,000 people, hours
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away from New York and Boston. And ultimately, our tables
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were turned completely. We ended up in a place that
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I loved, which became a place that he struggled. At
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least at first. Navigating this imbalance would put significant strain
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on us. And little did we know, a worldwide pandemic
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was about to exacerbate things significantly. We moved into our
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new house in a town where we knew no one
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on January 1st of 2020. And just 10 weeks later,
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the entire world shut down. We were isolated, alone, in
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a severe winter, in a brand new place full of strangers.
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We had each other, our surviving cat Beatrice, and Zoom. And,
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fear of the unknown. We wouldn't know if this place
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would be the right place for us for over a year.
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The silver lining for me, though, was that the pandemic
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brought people to podcasts in droves. After working for four
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years at approximately 80 hours per week, and financially peaking
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at about $ 1, 000 a month, my work was finally starting
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to pay off. By May of 2020, I was finally
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able to cover my own expenses on my own and
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start paying off a fairly massive podcasting debt. It was
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around that time that I was approached by a company
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called GetVocal, a new startup that offered live video and
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pledged to connect podcasters with their listeners. They wanted me
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to do weekly live video chats with listeners, something that
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made me tremendously nervous.
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Because I.
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I'm somewhat socially awkward and very much an introvert. More
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than that, I am incredibly shy. I was also terrified
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because just as TCB hit its stride, I'd pivoted to
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a new subject, Kelly Cochran. The pivot wasn't necessarily what
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I wanted, but in addition to needing to break with Brooklyn,
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I also desperately needed some space from Keys, for both
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the sake of my mental health and the sake of
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the story and investigation. My original plan had always been
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to do a single season of Keys, and then each
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subsequent season would cover another case. And once I finished
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a second season of Keys, I knew my work was
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not nearly done. So, I'd just take one season off,
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and I'd cover the disappearance and deaths of the Jameson
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family out of Oklahoma. Prior to Keys being my entire life,
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I was pretty obsessed with his case and three others.
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The Zodiac, the Jameson family, and the mysterious disappearance and
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death of Judy Smith, a Massachusetts woman who disappeared in
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Philadelphia and was later found dead in North Carolina. I
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knew that I couldn't do The Zodiac because it had
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been exhaustively covered, and I was pretty devout in my
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opinion of who was responsible for those crimes, so it
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didn't seem fair to the listener for me to cover it.
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And my FOIAs in both the Jameson and Smith cases
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were denied. So I started digging around for relatively unknown
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serial killers to cover. Something similar to Keyes. And that's
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when I stumbled upon a three-part series on investigation discovery
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about Kelly Cochran. I knew instantly that this was the
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case for me. She was relatively unknown. She had a
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fascinating and troubling upbringing. There was significant mystery around her crimes.
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Her crimes and MO were incredibly unique, we didn't know
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who most of her victims were, and female serial killers
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were rarely covered.
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At the time.
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And so, with just eight weeks before the scheduled launch
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of season three, I was invigorated but also worried that
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I'd lose my audience, just as I was finally able
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to financially survive from podcasting. The Kelly Cochran Foyas had
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cost more than $ 6, 000. It was a massive gamble, At
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a time when I felt financially insecure, all the debt
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that I'd paid off, I in one fell swoop quickly re-accrued.
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My entire livelihood was at stake, and Kelly Cochran was
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in the driver's seat. I launched GetVocal in conjunction with
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the Kelly season, which years later became its own podcast,
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The Pact, and I began obsessively watching my download numbers.
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And they plummeted.
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At first.
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But the pandemic brought in new listeners. And things slowly
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evened out. And GetVocal became a boon of its own.
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Just in a very unexpected way. While GetVocal promised to
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monetize the show, it never actually did. but it did
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introduce me to Shana, Tooker, and French. The three of
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them had been their own independent research team, and Shana
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used GetVocal as a way to prove their value to me.
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She came on weekly, sharing their theories with me. And
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we hit it off immediately, and I was happy to
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have someone there weekly to help mitigate my introversion. Over time,
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Shana introduced me to French and Tooker, and I was
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impressed with their research and, more than that, their judgment.
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I was never looking for a team and certainly didn't
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want one. But I sort of fell in love with
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all three of them, and I found their efforts invaluable.
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And I grew to trust them. And trust would be
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and had always been the most important part of collaboration
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in this case. I knew I had to trust people
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to put the victims and the Keys family first. I
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knew I had to trust people to put the podcast
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before the audience. I knew I had to trust people
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to work with integrity, morality, Ethics. And while ethics can't
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be defined, it's certainly not black and white, the three
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of them had similar ethical approaches to me. And so
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after a few months, the research team officially began with Kaz, Shana, Tooker,
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and French. Four people who would change my life and
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how Israel Keys impacted my life. But first, we had
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to get through Kelly. And now, Here's the very first
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episode of The Pact. In this episode, we're talking about
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big life changes. And I just made some new, smaller
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but still big life changes. I rearranged my bedroom and
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bought new sheets. I wanted to go into a new
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season of true crime bullshit and a new season, autumn,
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feeling fresh. And when you're starting fresh, some things are non-negotiable,
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like your bed. So I went to Bull & Branch,
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and I bought their signature sheets, a cozy blanket, and
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some supportive pillows, all crafted from high-quality organic materials. And
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not only did they upgrade my bedroom, but they upgraded
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my sleep. Everything on the bed works together, so the
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room feels more polished, and sleep feels like hotel-level goodness.
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Most people building a new bed start with the sheet
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sets and a comforter. And then they layer in a
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waffle blanket for texture and extra comfort. And a pop
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of color like I did. And the result is a
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bed that looks beautiful and feels amazing the moment you
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get into it. Because the only thing that revives your
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spirit more than a freshly upgraded bedroom is better sleep.
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And so, why not order some new linens from Bull
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and Branch so you can upgrade both at the same
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time and feel better and sleep better. Upgrade your sleep
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with Bowl & Branch. Get 15% off your first order
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plus free shipping at bowlandbranch.com slash truecrimebs with code truecrimebs.
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That's bowlandbranch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D, branch.com slash truecrimebs, code truecrimebs, to unlock
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15% off.
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Exclusions apply. How many butterfly tattoos do you have?
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Ten. And was it your testimony Friday that each one
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of these tattoos represents somebody.
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Special you've watched in your life?
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Yes.
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Who are the people? Family members.
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Are you denying at all that you told Chief Rizzo
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that butterflies are all over corpses and that's.
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Why you like them? I'm not denying it.
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I know I told you that.
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It was a lie.
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Why didn't you tell her that each one of those
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butterfly tattoos was for someone special that you lost.
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In your life?
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I have no clue. Do the butterflies indicate the true
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number of people you killed? I've never killed anybody.
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Did you also tell Chief Rizzo in that discussion on
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May 16th at the jail that you picked your victims
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by opportunity?
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I don't know.
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I don't remember that.
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Well, same discussion where you told her you had homicidal
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thoughts your entire life, that you didn't have any feelings,
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that you didn't have any remorse, and that you picked
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your victims on the basis of opportunity.
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I might have said that.
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We're taught to fear strangers, to look out for the unknown,
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To keep our eyes on the unfamiliar. It's what made
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Israel Keyes so terrifying. A completely unattached stranger who didn't
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care who you were. But more often than not, the
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ones we should fear the most, the ones most likely
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to do us harm, are the ones closest to us.
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The only thing scarier than having to protect yourself from
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the stranger that broke into your home is having to
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protect yourself from the person you willingly let in. The
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person you know, like, love. That's what's so terrifying about
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Kelly Cochran. According to Kelly Cochran... On the night of
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her wedding, her new husband Jason forced her to agree
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to a pact. That if she ever cheated on him,
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she would have to murder the man she cheated with.
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Or else, Jason would murder her. And, conversely, if Jason
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ever cheated, he would have to kill the woman he
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cheated with. Now, a lot can be said and speculated
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about this pact. How did it happen? Did it even
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happen at all? Was it a defense strategy? Or the
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impetus for what was to come?
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On our wedding night, my.
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Husband made the statement that if either one of us
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were to cheat on the other, we would have to
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kill the other person or the spouse would have.
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To Talked yesterday a little bit about.
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This pact that you allegedly had, this pact that you
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made on your wedding night.
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Was there ever such a pact?
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Pact means there's an agreement to something, like a contract.
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This was stated by my husband on our wedding night.
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Did I take it serious?
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No.
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Would I think something like that to be said.
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To, you know, everything at the beginning was normal, what
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most people's idea of normal was.
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What we're expected to believe, though, according to confessions from
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Kelly herself, is between their wedding on September 14, 2002,
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and Kelly's arrest on April 28, 2016, Kelly murdered at
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least nine people, including, eventually, Jason himself. Kelly and Jason
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grew up next door to each other in Merrillville, Indiana,
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a suburb just outside the greater metropolitan Chicago area. Kelly
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was described as independent, incredibly intelligent, and very outgoing. Jason,
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four years her senior, was quieter, softer, Friendly, but a
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bit awkward. Everyone who knew them said they were the
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perfect match. Which is why it was no surprise when
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the pair married just several months after Kelly's 20th birthday.
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I am 34 years old.
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The oldest daughter of Melanie and Timothy Caboian. I've got
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three siblings.
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The oldest daughter. I have some education background. I graduated
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from Maryville High School in 2000.
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Graduated from Purdue University Calumet in 2013 with a Bachelor's
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of Liberal Arts.
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Okay.
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And what was your specialty at Purdue?
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Psychology and Sociology.
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Did you have any other, like a minor or anything
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like that?
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00:19:08.019 --> 00:19:13.079
I did Forensics and also Spanish. Okay.
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So you're from Indiana originally. Tell us just briefly a
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little bit about the area that.
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00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:23.440
You grew up in. I grew up in, technically, it
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was in Maryville, Indiana. It was later on annexed to Hobart, Indiana,
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on 7th Street.
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I believe the population is 70,000, so it's a lot
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larger of an area than this.
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It's a busy area. I grew up.
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Pretty basic upbringing, we raised animals.
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That's pretty much it.
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Okay.
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00:19:47.990 --> 00:19:51.650
Now at some point you met a gentleman whose name
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is Jason Cochran. Tell us a little bit about Jason.
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00:19:56.029 --> 00:19:59.710
Jason had been my neighbor since I had moved into
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the house on Mississippi Street in Maryville.
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00:20:03.299 --> 00:20:07.809
I had known him all my life. Our families pretty
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00:20:07.829 --> 00:20:16.490
much talked together. We had cook-outs together. Okay. And growing up,
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00:20:16.509 --> 00:20:18.710
did you hang out with Jason?
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00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:22.440
Not as much when we were younger. There was a
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00:20:22.460 --> 00:20:24.460
four-year difference. He's four years older.
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00:20:25.819 --> 00:20:28.859
We hung out, I would say, in my teens. It
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00:20:28.900 --> 00:20:30.960
would have been awkward for him to hang out with
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00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:33.140
me when he was, you know.
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00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.819
When I was younger, so we hung out maybe 15, 16.
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We'd sit by bonfires and stuff, more so later.
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00:20:41.569 --> 00:20:46.069
And eventually, this hanging out became a romance, would that
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00:20:46.089 --> 00:20:46.869
be fair to say?
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00:20:46.970 --> 00:20:48.130
Yes.
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After their wedding, Kelly and Jason started their own company
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in Hobart, Indiana, servicing and cleaning pools. The company had
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00:21:00.940 --> 00:21:05.710
several names, including Exotic Pools and Better Backyards, but most
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notably the American Dream Company. According to Kelly's father, Jason
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was on disability, and so Kelly did the majority of
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the physical work for the business. In fact, Jason would
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encounter a slew of health problems in the years following
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their weddings.
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Jason had stopped working in 2011.
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00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:34.440
His issue was his back. He had a back issue
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once in a while, which caused him to not be
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able to work. He stopped working from that point on.
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He didn't work from 2011 really until.
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He didn't work. I mean, once in a while he
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would do stuff, but that was it. You say he
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has a bad back, but is he able to still
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do things? He was able to do anything. He wasn't nimble.
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He was diagnosed with sciatica.
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Which would cause pain.
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The nerves pinched in his spinal cord, which would go
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down the left side of his leg, which would cause pain.
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I'm not saying it didn't hurt, but he was still
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able and capable of doing pretty much anything anybody else
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can do.
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Give me an example of somebody out of a project
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that you argued to do or something like that.
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00:22:21.210 --> 00:22:23.549
He didn't do too much outside because he filed for
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disability and.
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00:22:24.210 --> 00:22:25.279
Didn't want anybody to see it.
349
00:22:25.880 --> 00:22:31.500
Fall is here, which means layers, sweater weather. You know,
350
00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:34.140
those pieces in your closet that you find yourself wearing
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00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:37.440
on repeat. The sweater that goes with everything, the perfect
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00:22:37.460 --> 00:22:40.660
pair of pants, or the tee you somehow always reach
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00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:44.250
for first. Those are the pieces that make getting dressed easy,
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00:22:44.710 --> 00:22:48.200
especially as we approach a new season. the best season
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00:22:48.220 --> 00:22:51.720
for fashion. And that's what Quince does best. Quince focuses
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00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:56.660
on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials, like 100%
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00:22:56.660 --> 00:23:01.490
Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. Fall means layers,
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00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:05.250
which means layering in lots of different pieces that work
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00:23:05.269 --> 00:23:08.849
well together, that age well, that feel good, that keep
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00:23:08.869 --> 00:23:11.369
you warm. And that's why I find myself going back
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00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:14.740
to Quince over and over again. Their bamboo tees, their
362
00:23:14.759 --> 00:23:18.769
Mongolian cashmere sweaters, It feels good, it's stylish, but it's
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00:23:18.809 --> 00:23:23.529
also stylishly classic, or classically stylish. My point is, you
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00:23:23.569 --> 00:23:26.289
can wear them this fall, and next fall, and the
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00:23:26.329 --> 00:23:30.170
following fall, and probably even through winter and spring too.
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00:23:30.190 --> 00:23:32.460
Because they look good, and they can layer with different
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00:23:32.500 --> 00:23:35.019
pieces so they look different every time you wear them.
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00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:38.619
Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince
369
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:44.089
app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com slash tcbs.
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00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:48.670
Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now
371
00:23:48.710 --> 00:23:53.809
available in Canada and the UK, too. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot
372
00:23:53.849 --> 00:24:02.190
com slash tcbs. Following Jason's eventual death, Kelly began to
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00:24:02.250 --> 00:24:07.230
make multiple claims that despite his disability, Jason was quite
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capable of physical work. She would also discuss, at length,
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00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:17.299
Jason's many mental health issues in both her interviews and testimony.
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Jason suffered from severe depression and had been institutionalized at
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least twice as an adult. Additionally... Jason battled kidney cancer
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early in their marriage while in Indiana, something Kelly never
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brought up in her courtroom testimony for reasons we'll get
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into in a future episode. Needless to say, the cancer
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disabled Jason for approximately 18 months, leaving him unable to
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walk and, as he would strangely point out, have sex.
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According to Jason... That cancer is what caused Kelly to
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stray from their marriage, with both men and women. And
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according to records, it also caused extreme financial hardships for
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the pair. By 2011, Kelly and Jason were being sued
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by at least three different companies for unpaid medical bills,
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which resulted in liens on their house, failures to appear
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in court, and warrants for Kelly's arrest. Ultimately, Kelly was
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forced to pay several thousand dollars in legal fees and
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restitution in late 2013, which might account for the Cochran's
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00:25:37.619 --> 00:25:42.319
sudden departure from Hobart to Caspian, 400 miles away, in
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the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in January of 2014. When
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the Cochrans left Indiana, they left many of their court-ordered
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payment plans abandoned.
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00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:57.430
Now, at some point, let me skip ahead a few years,
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00:25:58.250 --> 00:25:59.190
you decided.
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00:25:58.849 --> 00:26:01.390
To move up here to Michigan. Can you tell us
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00:26:01.450 --> 00:26:03.630
about when that was and why you wanted to move
400
00:26:03.690 --> 00:26:07.450
up here? Yeah, we moved up here, moved into the.
401
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:15.119
House January 29, 2014, to 66 Lawrence Street. Before this,
402
00:26:15.299 --> 00:26:19.380
we were having more issues than we had at home
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00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:20.440
in Indiana.
404
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:24.299
He decided that we would move up here. I picked
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00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:25.859
the state because he was able.
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00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:29.619
To grow marijuana and smoke marijuana legally. He grew it
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00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:33.400
at home in Indiana, but it was legal up here.
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00:26:33.900 --> 00:26:34.259
Sure.
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I believe there are other reasons, but I can't be sure.
410
00:26:39.140 --> 00:26:41.049
Now, I think you told me that you moved up
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00:26:41.089 --> 00:26:43.509
here hoping that maybe you'd get a fresh start with
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00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:45.730
Jason and maybe a new change.
413
00:26:45.769 --> 00:26:49.410
Maybe we do the marriage. Am I correct in what
414
00:26:49.430 --> 00:26:49.849
you said?
415
00:26:49.890 --> 00:26:50.130
Correct.
416
00:26:50.150 --> 00:26:55.839
All right. That happen? No. What happened when you first
417
00:26:55.859 --> 00:27:00.710
moved up there? He was more jealous. He still wasn't.
418
00:27:00.730 --> 00:27:03.569
He had no intentions of going to work. I didn't
419
00:27:03.589 --> 00:27:06.619
work for two months. I wasn't in a hurry to
420
00:27:06.640 --> 00:27:08.670
get back to work. We had money saved up.
421
00:27:11.019 --> 00:27:13.039
It wasn't in a hurry, so I was at home more,
422
00:27:13.509 --> 00:27:17.470
but then I started looking for work and started working again.
423
00:27:17.490 --> 00:27:20.630
Where did you find work at? First place was Ace
424
00:27:20.670 --> 00:27:23.390
Hardware in Iron River. What would you do there? Just
425
00:27:23.430 --> 00:27:29.539
tell us briefly. Cashier, stock, make keys, cut glass, help
426
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:30.680
with different projects.
427
00:27:31.339 --> 00:27:31.539
Okay.
428
00:27:33.339 --> 00:27:34.660
You said that was the first place you worked? I
429
00:27:34.660 --> 00:27:36.400
think it implies it was the second place.
430
00:27:36.420 --> 00:27:37.380
Can you tell us about that?
431
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:40.579
Yeah, that was the first place up here. Second place
432
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:44.420
was Mr. T's Restaurant in Iron River. Okay, and what
433
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:47.990
would you do there? I was a server, waiting on people.
434
00:27:48.670 --> 00:27:51.630
I was working there evenings when I was working at
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00:27:51.690 --> 00:27:53.009
Ace Driver and everything else.
436
00:27:53.569 --> 00:27:56.569
At some point, though, you got a job at the Oldenburg.
437
00:27:56.609 --> 00:27:58.950
Can you tell us about the circumstances behind that?
438
00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.890
Yeah, I had an Oldenburg job. end of March. That
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00:28:03.910 --> 00:28:06.069
was definitely the kind of work I'd rather do compared
440
00:28:06.089 --> 00:28:06.769
to the other stuff.
441
00:28:06.869 --> 00:28:11.680
It was more hands-on, fixing things, building things. I got
442
00:28:11.700 --> 00:28:17.700
a call in mid-May. My orientation after.
443
00:28:17.519 --> 00:28:24.900
The drug screening and physical was May 27, 2014.
444
00:28:24.900 --> 00:28:27.079
What specifically would you do? You said you fixed.
445
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:27.819
Things and made things.
446
00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:29.259
I don't know if they would.
447
00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:32.039
Have ever tested specifically what you would be doing there.
448
00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:34.140
My job there was electrical assembly.
449
00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:38.480
We would, you know, follow through blueprints and, you know,
450
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:41.880
put the electrical wires and connections, make connections.
451
00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:44.920
On some of the mining machines and just put things together.
452
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.160
And you said you had a drug test there.
453
00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:48.799
Presumably you passed that drug test.
454
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:49.039
I did.
455
00:28:49.059 --> 00:28:51.420
And so would you be fair to say around that
456
00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:52.529
time you weren't using drugs?
457
00:28:53.329 --> 00:28:55.470
The last time I had used anything before the drug
458
00:28:55.490 --> 00:28:58.009
test was probably six weeks prior, and it was marijuana.
459
00:28:58.190 --> 00:29:00.369
Okay, and why was that?
460
00:29:00.410 --> 00:29:03.309
Did you want to do it, or what was the point.
461
00:29:03.210 --> 00:29:04.029
Of your mind?
462
00:29:04.289 --> 00:29:07.670
I knew I'd have to take the drug test. So
463
00:29:07.710 --> 00:29:10.359
how about these other jobs? Did you keep them as well?
464
00:29:10.380 --> 00:29:12.160
I just do teas and Ace Hardware?
465
00:29:12.420 --> 00:29:15.859
Ace Hardware, I did end up quitting on.
466
00:29:17.690 --> 00:29:19.529
I want to say then that I'm not for certain
467
00:29:19.569 --> 00:29:22.720
on the date because I couldn't keep all three jobs.
468
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.720
But I did keep Mr. T's and Oldenburg. Oldenburg, I
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00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:27.819
started working.
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00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:29.039
$ 40 to $ 60 a week.
471
00:29:29.980 --> 00:29:32.180
And I was doing Mr. T's at night, and it
472
00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:33.890
was too much because I was getting up at three
473
00:29:33.910 --> 00:29:38.210
in the morning, working there until, you know, my shift
474
00:29:38.230 --> 00:29:38.930
was 5 a.m.
475
00:29:39.130 --> 00:29:42.829
Until 3 p.m., you know, so I had to work
476
00:29:43.130 --> 00:29:45.170
from that time, and then I'd usually start four or
477
00:29:45.210 --> 00:29:47.089
five o'clock at Mr.
478
00:29:47.150 --> 00:29:49.630
T's. Mr.
479
00:29:49.690 --> 00:29:52.980
T's, I got fired from there.
480
00:29:53.019 --> 00:29:55.380
They said it was because of my attendance and for theft.
481
00:29:55.880 --> 00:29:56.160
Okay.
482
00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:58.660
Did you steal anything from Mr. T's?
483
00:29:58.740 --> 00:29:58.839
No.
484
00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:02.220
You had some attendance issues, though? Yes.
485
00:30:02.480 --> 00:30:08.289
Tell us about those. I missed several dates there. I
486
00:30:08.650 --> 00:30:11.910
told my nephew I didn't go to a funeral. I
487
00:30:11.970 --> 00:30:14.630
went down to Indiana to do some side work for
488
00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:16.589
a pool. I was making a lot of money doing that.
489
00:30:19.529 --> 00:30:23.490
Upon their arrival to the Upper Peninsula, Kelly was essentially
490
00:30:23.569 --> 00:30:27.960
working around the clock to keep the pair afloat. especially
491
00:30:28.019 --> 00:30:30.700
in light of a trail of debt that followed them
492
00:30:31.099 --> 00:30:36.079
and Jason's either unwillingness or inability to work, depending on
493
00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:42.390
who you ask. However, it wasn't solely Jason's medical expenses
494
00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:46.450
that were a drain on their finances. Kelly has admitted
495
00:30:46.609 --> 00:30:51.150
on multiple occasions to being a frequent drug user. She
496
00:30:51.210 --> 00:30:55.869
habitually used everything from marijuana to prescription drugs like Xanax
497
00:30:55.930 --> 00:31:00.700
and Vicodin, to party drugs like ecstasy and GHB, and
498
00:31:00.980 --> 00:31:05.420
even harder drugs like heroin and cocaine. And while throughout
499
00:31:05.480 --> 00:31:08.970
the investigation into Kelly and the ensuing trial, she would
500
00:31:09.009 --> 00:31:11.930
say she used drugs as an escape from her troubled marriage,
501
00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:16.930
records indicate that she actually began abusing drugs long before
502
00:31:17.049 --> 00:31:21.359
she and Jason became romantic. And this is one of
503
00:31:21.420 --> 00:31:26.690
the more remarkable and terrifying things about Kelly Cochran. Not
504
00:31:26.789 --> 00:31:30.190
only was she working around the clock in Caspian and
505
00:31:30.309 --> 00:31:34.819
remodeling her new house while abusing party designer and hard drugs,
506
00:31:35.619 --> 00:31:38.519
earlier in life she managed to graduate from high school
507
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:43.900
with honors, while doing the same and barely even attending class.
508
00:31:44.900 --> 00:31:49.160
Kelly was repeatedly reprimanded for her severe attendance issues in
509
00:31:49.240 --> 00:31:52.609
school and later in life at all of her jobs.
510
00:31:53.890 --> 00:31:57.710
Knowing what I know now about Kelly, it's absolutely terrifying
511
00:31:57.769 --> 00:32:00.789
to think about what she could have achieved if she'd
512
00:32:00.869 --> 00:32:04.170
actually applied herself, which is a funny thing to say
513
00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:10.779
forebodingly about someone. Instead, she partied, and according to multiple
514
00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:14.980
reports and lawsuits, she paid for that partying through theft.
515
00:32:16.099 --> 00:32:17.700
But you were the one who was the admitted scammer
516
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:20.049
in my entire life, correct? That's what you said that
517
00:32:20.069 --> 00:32:23.059
was in my life. That's what you wrote in your letter, correct?
518
00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:25.660
That's correct.
519
00:32:25.680 --> 00:32:26.160
Your words, correct?
520
00:32:26.180 --> 00:32:27.700
That's what I wrote.
521
00:32:31.509 --> 00:32:34.569
In fact, in the midst of her legal battles over
522
00:32:34.630 --> 00:32:40.529
Jason's medical debts, Kelly registered corporate filings for a non-profit,
523
00:32:41.250 --> 00:32:48.109
ironically called Unconditional Love and Hope. Unconditional Love and Hope
524
00:32:48.450 --> 00:32:53.269
wouldn't dissolve for three years. but in its lifetime, has
525
00:32:53.309 --> 00:32:58.309
a very questionable record at best. A record we'll be
526
00:32:58.369 --> 00:33:04.009
exploring in a future episode. All this is to say,
527
00:33:04.750 --> 00:33:10.730
Kelly Cochran is a goddamn liar. And unlike Keyes, who
528
00:33:10.829 --> 00:33:13.970
generally lied to avoid talking about things he didn't want
529
00:33:13.990 --> 00:33:18.680
to talk about, Kelly lied just to lie. She lied
530
00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:24.289
to protect herself. She lied to derail the investigation. She
531
00:33:24.349 --> 00:33:30.190
lied to make herself look stronger, better, smarter. She lied
532
00:33:30.250 --> 00:33:37.420
to scare people. She lied just to lie. Which is
533
00:33:37.460 --> 00:33:41.759
why the case of Kelly Cochran is so incredibly murky.
534
00:33:42.900 --> 00:33:47.000
There's what she initially told law enforcement happened. There's what
535
00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:51.559
Jason said happened. There's what she told law enforcement happened
536
00:33:51.619 --> 00:33:56.240
during a second round of interviews. There's what Jason's manuscript
537
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:00.660
says happened. Yes, we have another manuscript on our hands.
538
00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:05.710
There's what physical evidence says happened. There's what Kelly's attorneys
539
00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:09.690
say happened. There's what Kelly's friends and family say happened.
540
00:34:10.530 --> 00:34:14.389
There's what Kelly said happened in third, fourth, and fifth interviews.
541
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.039
And then there's what Kelly has said both privately and
542
00:34:18.139 --> 00:34:22.519
publicly since being sentenced to life plus 65 years in prison.
543
00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:29.230
And all of those stories are wildly different. Scams today
544
00:34:29.369 --> 00:34:33.849
aren't designed to confuse people. They're designed to take money fast.
545
00:34:34.329 --> 00:34:38.070
Now attackers just go straight for bank accounts, credit cards, savings,
546
00:34:38.139 --> 00:34:42.219
and long-term financial stability. And in many cases, the money
547
00:34:42.300 --> 00:34:45.969
is gone within minutes. and recovery can take months or
548
00:34:46.070 --> 00:34:49.320
even years. Most people still believe that scams happen to
549
00:34:49.570 --> 00:34:52.579
other people, but today, fraud has become a part of
550
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.179
everyday life online. According to the FTC, Americans reported losing
551
00:34:57.219 --> 00:35:03.699
more than $ 15. 9 b-b-b-billion dollars to fraud in 2025 alone.
552
00:35:04.059 --> 00:35:07.360
People already use tools like bank alerts, password managers, or
553
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security apps, but these don't guarantee financial recovery when a
554
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scam actually succeeds. That's why I have fallen in love
555
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with CoverOn. CoverOn watches the dark web for your personal information,
556
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alerts you when your personal data, logins, or payment details
557
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are exposed, warns you early when something doesn't look right,
558
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559
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track changes to your credit and new accounts in your name,
560
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and stop fraudsters from opening new loans or lines of credit.
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And not only will they help you fix any problems
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566
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569
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TCB with code TCB. Here is what we do know.
573
00:36:34.849 --> 00:36:38.590
Two months after the Cochran's move to the Upper Peninsula...
574
00:36:38.630 --> 00:36:42.829
Kelly got a job in neighboring Iron River, working for
575
00:36:42.889 --> 00:36:48.239
the Oldenburg Group, a global supplier of metals, mining materials,
576
00:36:48.539 --> 00:36:53.039
and military defense products, where Kelly worked as an electrical assembler.
577
00:36:54.539 --> 00:36:57.380
And even though Kelly was hired by Oldenburg in late
578
00:36:57.460 --> 00:37:01.489
March of 2014, she didn't actually start working at the
579
00:37:01.530 --> 00:37:05.809
plant until May 27th, due to a required drug test
580
00:37:05.969 --> 00:37:09.010
and a physical test. both of which she was able
581
00:37:09.050 --> 00:37:13.909
to pass despite her alleged drug abuse. I bring up
582
00:37:13.949 --> 00:37:16.710
the delay in her start date only to highlight how
583
00:37:16.769 --> 00:37:19.230
much Kelly got done in her first four and a
584
00:37:19.269 --> 00:37:23.570
half months at Oldenburg. And by how much she got done,
585
00:37:23.590 --> 00:37:28.610
I mean how much chaos she created, least of which
586
00:37:28.909 --> 00:37:39.849
was getting fired for, you guessed it, attendance issues. Now,
587
00:37:40.269 --> 00:37:42.690
it has to be said that what we now know
588
00:37:42.849 --> 00:37:45.769
about Kelly Cochran, and the picture I painted of her,
589
00:37:46.789 --> 00:37:50.539
is not entirely reflective of how she was initially viewed
590
00:37:50.599 --> 00:37:56.940
in Iron County, Michigan. Kelly was extremely charismatic and an
591
00:37:56.980 --> 00:38:02.619
incredibly hard worker. While she was using drugs, committing petty theft,
592
00:38:02.780 --> 00:38:07.000
and running from deaths and lawsuits, Kelly was also making
593
00:38:07.059 --> 00:38:11.380
friends and supporting her community, In her neighborhood in Caspian,
594
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:13.840
she was known as a person who would mow her
595
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.940
elderly neighbor's lawns, host bonfires, and lend a hand to
596
00:38:18.039 --> 00:38:22.110
anyone who needed it. She was talkative and friendly, and
597
00:38:22.170 --> 00:38:26.710
knew just about everyone on her block. At Oldenburg, she
598
00:38:26.750 --> 00:38:33.139
was regarded as highly intelligent, diligent, methodical, and a great employee.
599
00:38:34.500 --> 00:38:37.480
Whether it was just Kelly's nature, or if it was
600
00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:41.840
methodical and manipulative, Kelly knew how to make friends and
601
00:38:41.960 --> 00:38:51.099
charm people, which might have ultimately been her downfall. Four
602
00:38:51.179 --> 00:38:55.659
months after Kelly started working at Oldenburg, one of her co-workers,
603
00:38:56.119 --> 00:39:01.699
Chris Regan, disappeared. Chris was a supervisor and team leader
604
00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:06.360
on the military assembly team at Oldenburg. The 51-year-old was
605
00:39:06.500 --> 00:39:09.739
highly regarded by the executive team there. which is why
606
00:39:09.780 --> 00:39:11.909
it came as a blow when, on the morning of
607
00:39:11.989 --> 00:39:16.530
October 14th of 2014, Chris announced that he'd accepted a
608
00:39:16.590 --> 00:39:20.610
new job in Asheville, North Carolina, and was moving there
609
00:39:20.670 --> 00:39:24.989
to be closer to his two grown sons. That morning,
610
00:39:25.070 --> 00:39:27.550
he told HR that he needed to take the following
611
00:39:27.590 --> 00:39:30.570
day off for a mandatory drug test for his new job,
612
00:39:31.070 --> 00:39:34.070
but that he'd be back at the plant on the 16th.
613
00:39:36.210 --> 00:39:40.300
Due to the unfortunate timing of his disappearance, when Chris
614
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:44.219
never returned to Oldenburg, it was presumed that he'd just
615
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.579
outright quit because of his pending move and new job.
616
00:39:49.019 --> 00:39:55.380
In fact, Chris wasn't reported missing until October 27th, 13
617
00:39:55.380 --> 00:40:00.409
days after he was last seen. His good friend and ex-girlfriend,
618
00:40:00.610 --> 00:40:04.349
Terry O'Donnell, reported to the Iron County police that she
619
00:40:04.389 --> 00:40:07.250
hadn't heard from Chris since 6 a.m. on the 14th,
620
00:40:08.150 --> 00:40:10.190
when he called to let her know that he'd accepted
621
00:40:10.230 --> 00:40:15.340
the new job in Asheville. Prior to that call, O'Donnell
622
00:40:15.380 --> 00:40:19.849
and Regan spoke almost daily, and Terry hadn't been able
623
00:40:19.869 --> 00:40:25.389
to get in touch with him since. Fortunately, Iron River
624
00:40:25.429 --> 00:40:32.440
Police Department Chief Laura Frizzo took the missing persons report seriously, which, unfortunately,
625
00:40:32.900 --> 00:40:36.579
is quite rare. And we'll get into just how poor
626
00:40:36.659 --> 00:40:40.159
the general law enforcement and media response is to missing
627
00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:44.880
men in a future episode. But that very night, Chief
628
00:40:44.940 --> 00:40:49.059
Frizzo instructed Sergeant Cindy Barrett to take Terry to Chris's
629
00:40:49.099 --> 00:40:53.599
apartment to look around. Terry had keys to the apartment
630
00:40:53.659 --> 00:40:57.619
because her parents owned the building Chris lived in. In fact,
631
00:40:58.449 --> 00:41:01.349
it was Terry's proximity to Chris Regan and the case
632
00:41:01.469 --> 00:41:06.510
in general that would initially derail the investigation. Because not
633
00:41:06.610 --> 00:41:09.829
only did Terry report Chris missing and have access to
634
00:41:09.869 --> 00:41:13.610
his apartment, she also knew where his car had been
635
00:41:13.650 --> 00:41:21.500
abandoned for the two weeks he'd been gone. Upon entry
636
00:41:21.559 --> 00:41:24.719
to Chris's apartment, it was clear he hadn't moved to
637
00:41:24.780 --> 00:41:29.760
North Carolina yet, as some had initially suspected. He had
638
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:34.280
half-packed boxes and to-do lists throughout, along with an unsigned
639
00:41:34.360 --> 00:41:40.179
job offer, prescription medication, and his computer. After a preliminary
640
00:41:40.260 --> 00:41:43.989
search of the apartment, Terry told Sgt. Barrett that she'd
641
00:41:44.030 --> 00:41:47.750
seen Chris's car parked at a park-and-ride facility four miles
642
00:41:47.929 --> 00:41:51.579
east of Iron River, in the extremely rural and forested
643
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:55.980
township of Bates. And so the pair drove directly from
644
00:41:56.039 --> 00:41:59.300
Regan's apartment to the park and ride, where his car had,
645
00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:04.510
in fact, been abandoned. I have to emphasize how incredibly
646
00:42:04.590 --> 00:42:07.650
rare it is in any missing persons case for this
647
00:42:07.710 --> 00:42:10.230
kind of search and progress to be made within the
648
00:42:10.329 --> 00:42:14.059
first two hours of a report being filed. Chief Frizzo
649
00:42:14.139 --> 00:42:17.639
and Sergeant Barrett took the report seriously from the get-go
650
00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:22.539
and took immediate action. Terry O'Donnell went to the police
651
00:42:22.579 --> 00:42:26.639
department prepared. She had keys to Chris's apartment. She had
652
00:42:26.699 --> 00:42:30.000
located his car. She had all of her facts straight.
653
00:42:31.159 --> 00:42:34.590
And all that preparedness on Terry's part resulted in her
654
00:42:34.639 --> 00:42:41.090
becoming the prime suspect in Regan's disappearance. The park and
655
00:42:41.150 --> 00:42:44.880
ride where Regan's car was abandoned sits within a heavily
656
00:42:44.960 --> 00:42:49.940
forested mile of a lake and several abandoned mines. And
657
00:42:50.000 --> 00:42:53.230
it's five miles in the opposite direction from where Chris
658
00:42:53.389 --> 00:42:57.210
lived and worked in West Iron River. There was no
659
00:42:57.349 --> 00:43:00.750
plausible reason for Chris's car to be in the remote area.
660
00:43:01.250 --> 00:43:05.039
So while Terry had accidentally made herself the prime suspect,
661
00:43:05.659 --> 00:43:11.019
two other theories were being floated by Iron River police. One,
662
00:43:11.760 --> 00:43:14.579
Chris had gotten lost in the nearby woods while hunting
663
00:43:14.659 --> 00:43:19.630
or fishing. Or two, Chris had gone there to die
664
00:43:19.710 --> 00:43:25.110
by suicide. The suicide theory had pretty quickly been debunked.
665
00:43:25.909 --> 00:43:28.519
Everyone who knew Chris said he was excited about his
666
00:43:28.579 --> 00:43:31.420
new job and new move, that he looked forward to
667
00:43:31.460 --> 00:43:34.880
being closer to his kids, that he was very much
668
00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:38.860
ready to get out of the Upper Peninsula. So investigators
669
00:43:38.940 --> 00:43:43.139
focused on finding out Chris's last known whereabouts, while Search
670
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:45.900
and Rescue searched the woods surrounding the park and ride.
671
00:43:48.519 --> 00:43:52.300
In Chris's abandoned car, they found two pieces of possible evidence,
672
00:43:53.239 --> 00:43:56.199
a knee brace that Chris was required to wear following
673
00:43:56.239 --> 00:44:01.590
a recent surgery and very rarely took off, and handwritten
674
00:44:01.630 --> 00:44:09.489
directions to 66 Lawrence Street in nearby Caspian, Michigan. While
675
00:44:09.530 --> 00:44:13.210
the search was being conducted, Frizzo and Barrett pooled Regan's
676
00:44:13.250 --> 00:44:17.670
financial records and found that his last known transaction was
677
00:44:17.809 --> 00:44:22.409
on October 14th at 4.13pm at a gas station in
678
00:44:22.590 --> 00:44:27.420
Iron River. They pooled surveillance and were able to confirm
679
00:44:27.460 --> 00:44:30.320
that it was Chris, and Chris alone, at the gas
680
00:44:30.340 --> 00:44:34.150
station that day. They also reached out to his new
681
00:44:34.190 --> 00:44:37.230
job in Asheville and discovered that Chris never went in
682
00:44:37.289 --> 00:44:41.440
for his mandatory drug test on the 15th. And then
683
00:44:41.599 --> 00:44:45.159
they took a drive to the Oldenburg Group, a drive
684
00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:54.269
that would drastically alter their investigation. Chris's HR manager had
685
00:44:54.309 --> 00:44:58.590
a lot of new information for Chief Frizzo. But most
686
00:44:58.650 --> 00:45:04.039
of it wasn't about Chris. but rather one of his co-workers,
687
00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.880
a woman by the name of Kelly Cochran.
688
00:45:07.900 --> 00:45:12.710
At some point, while over, you met Mr.
689
00:45:12.789 --> 00:45:16.710
Regan, correct? Yep. Tell us about that. I first met
690
00:45:16.809 --> 00:45:17.170
him on.
691
00:45:19.030 --> 00:45:21.510
The day of my interview, which was the 22nd, he
692
00:45:21.650 --> 00:45:24.679
was in the one of six that did the hiring.
693
00:45:24.980 --> 00:45:27.440
That was the first time I met him. But I
694
00:45:27.460 --> 00:45:28.579
would see him in passing.
695
00:45:28.619 --> 00:45:32.599
He was in the military assembly, so that was the.
696
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:35.239
Section right behind the electrical assembly.
697
00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:38.320
So, you know, he passed through. We made small talk
698
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:42.730
through that. We ended up talking more in the same room.
699
00:45:46.610 --> 00:45:50.809
HR reported that Chris had a sterling reputation at Oldenburg,
700
00:45:51.650 --> 00:45:54.739
and that when he never returned to work on October 16th,
701
00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:58.179
it was assumed he'd just left for his new job.
702
00:45:59.519 --> 00:46:02.940
The only questionable information they had on Chris were office
703
00:46:03.000 --> 00:46:05.380
rumors that he was having an affair with a married
704
00:46:05.460 --> 00:46:10.000
co-worker named Kelly. And there were other rumors about Kelly
705
00:46:10.079 --> 00:46:13.840
having an affair with one of Chris's subordinates, a man
706
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:19.380
named Eric Erickson. And when asked about Kelly herself, HR
707
00:46:19.460 --> 00:46:24.519
told investigators that shortly before Chris went missing, Kelly reported
708
00:46:24.579 --> 00:46:28.039
that her husband Jason had tried to kill her and
709
00:46:28.079 --> 00:46:33.250
then himself. In less than a year and a half,
710
00:46:34.670 --> 00:46:38.369
two of the three men in Kelly's life would be dead.
711
00:46:44.860 --> 00:46:50.300
Following that trip to Oldenburg, Terry O'Donnell was cleared, and
712
00:46:50.380 --> 00:46:57.800
two new theories surrounding Chris and Kelly developed. One, that
713
00:46:57.900 --> 00:47:06.969
a jealous Eric Erickson killed Chris Regan. Or two, that
714
00:47:07.050 --> 00:47:11.150
Kelly's jealous husband, Jason Cochran, killed Regan.
715
00:47:12.949 --> 00:47:13.130
And so.
716
00:47:14.059 --> 00:47:18.519
On October 26th, the Iron River police headed to Jason
717
00:47:18.559 --> 00:47:26.969
and Kelly Cochran's house, located at 66 Lawrence Street in Caspian, Michigan.
718
00:47:31.630 --> 00:47:35.570
Their initial interviews with the Cochrans only fueled the theory
719
00:47:35.630 --> 00:47:40.989
that at least Jason was involved in Regan's disappearance. In fact,
720
00:47:41.980 --> 00:47:45.409
Jason was caught in a lie within seconds of answering
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00:47:45.469 --> 00:47:49.849
the door that night. When asked if Kelly was home,
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00:47:50.409 --> 00:47:55.389
Jason said no. And before Chief Frizzo could finish asking
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00:47:55.429 --> 00:48:01.489
where she was, Kelly emerged from an upstairs bathroom. And
724
00:48:01.550 --> 00:48:06.730
when Frizzo asked Jason why he lied, Kelly answered for him.
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00:48:08.130 --> 00:48:12.769
In fact, once Kelly came to the door, Jason barely
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00:48:12.849 --> 00:48:16.800
said a word. He stood awkwardly and quietly in the
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00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:21.280
doorway as Kelly told investigators that Jason was just protecting her,
728
00:48:22.619 --> 00:48:25.900
that she was having an affair with Chris, that she
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00:48:25.940 --> 00:48:29.340
was worried when Chris stopped responding to her texts and calls,
730
00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.019
and then eventually upset when she figured that Chris had
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00:48:34.079 --> 00:48:39.579
just moved to North Carolina without saying goodbye. Frizzo described
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00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:45.690
Kelly as friendly, genuine, and cooperative. Jason, on the other hand,
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00:48:46.110 --> 00:48:51.969
made her incredibly uncomfortable. He was emotionless throughout their conversation,
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00:48:52.710 --> 00:48:58.309
even as Kelly described her affair with Chris. The Cochrans
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00:48:58.369 --> 00:49:01.329
agreed to meet with police the following morning to answer
736
00:49:01.389 --> 00:49:09.429
more questions. And, again, at that meeting, Kelly was friendly, likable, cool,
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00:49:09.550 --> 00:49:15.989
and collected, Jason, however, was a complete mess. He started
738
00:49:16.110 --> 00:49:22.039
crying almost immediately upon entering the interview room and told
739
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:26.940
investigators that he suffered from severe depression and anxiety and
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00:49:26.980 --> 00:49:31.079
had only just recently been released from a mental health facility.
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00:49:32.860 --> 00:49:36.349
Jason went on to tell investigators that he understood why
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00:49:36.449 --> 00:49:39.800
they were looking into him, and that he could reasonably
743
00:49:39.900 --> 00:49:45.110
be perceived as the jealous husband. But he maintained his innocence,
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00:49:45.989 --> 00:49:49.230
and the couple both promised to make themselves available to
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00:49:49.289 --> 00:49:55.130
police throughout the investigation. And while Iron River detectives remain
746
00:49:55.190 --> 00:50:00.469
dubious of Jason, initial interviews from friends and neighbors painted
747
00:50:00.530 --> 00:50:05.489
a pretty innocent picture. They told police that around the
748
00:50:05.530 --> 00:50:09.639
time Chris went missing, The Cochrans hadn't appeared strange or
749
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:14.210
suspicious at all. In fact, they were actually quite busy.
750
00:50:15.369 --> 00:50:19.849
Kelly was working two jobs. They hosted several backyard bonfires
751
00:50:19.969 --> 00:50:24.630
and a barbecue. They were remodeling their house. Kelly was
752
00:50:24.670 --> 00:50:29.070
doing her usual neighborhood lawn mowing. And Kelly's parents had
753
00:50:29.150 --> 00:50:33.860
recently visited for a weekend. Everything appeared to be normal.
754
00:50:34.739 --> 00:50:39.610
if not irregularly busy at the Cochran house. At least,
755
00:50:40.610 --> 00:50:57.039
that's what neighbors reported at first. 0, 21, 14, 6, 9.
756
00:50:57.039 --> 00:51:00.280
These are the various numbers of murders attributed to Kelly
757
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:05.699
Cochran in since her arrest in Wingo, Kentucky in 2016.
758
00:51:05.699 --> 00:51:10.719
As of today, only two have been confirmed, Chris Regan
759
00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:18.429
and Jason Cochran. However, a clause in her plea agreement,
760
00:51:19.570 --> 00:51:23.389
a highly irregular plea that landed her life in prison
761
00:51:23.469 --> 00:51:28.570
with no possibility for parole, might just corroborate Kelly's claims
762
00:51:28.699 --> 00:51:35.610
that that number is much, much higher. And, much like Keyes,
763
00:51:35.929 --> 00:51:39.800
if Kelly is to be believed, those murders span at
764
00:51:39.929 --> 00:51:46.519
least five different states over a 13-year period. But, unlike Keyes,
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00:51:47.139 --> 00:51:50.980
Kelly claims to have been romantic with most of her victims.
766
00:51:53.110 --> 00:51:57.869
Like I said, It's the people you willingly let in
767
00:51:58.289 --> 00:52:00.630
who are most likely to do you harm.
768
00:52:01.570 --> 00:52:06.340
This episode was written, produced, and researched by me, your host,
769
00:52:06.920 --> 00:52:11.539
Josh Hallmark, with consultation by Michelle Kazuba.
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00:52:25.400 --> 00:52:31.889
Research sources include the docuseries Dead North, Psychology Today, the
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00:52:32.050 --> 00:52:36.510
Iron County Reporter, and the Iron Mountain Daily News. This
772
00:52:36.590 --> 00:52:43.829
episode featured music by William Hellfire, Chris Zabriskie, Wythe, Sergei Cheromisenov,
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00:52:44.570 --> 00:52:47.800
Doom Squad, and My Brightest Diamond.
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00:52:47.820 --> 00:52:54.260
Left one dead, left one, ooh, love a killer.
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00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:14.769
I can dream my future, dream my future On the
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00:53:14.849 --> 00:53:18.110
other I can feel my.
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00:53:17.909 --> 00:53:22.050
Nature, feel my nature.
778
00:53:27.869 --> 00:53:32.880
Inside myself I have a moment.
779
00:53:32.139 --> 00:53:33.019
To choose.
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00:53:38.179 --> 00:53:39.380
Or to let.
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00:53:39.159 --> 00:53:44.559
Loose the calling crow, the pulsing throat.
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00:53:44.719 --> 00:53:46.989
Love a killer killer.
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00:54:08.510 --> 00:55:21.980
See you next time. Thank you.