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00:00:33.840Welcome to the other side, the charity freelancers podcast.
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00:00:40.079I'm Jane Curtis, and this is where we explore the journey from charity professional to thriving freelancer or founder.
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00:00:48.079Each week I chat with people who've made this leap from the charity sector, sharing invaluable practical tips and incredible insights firsthand.
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00:00:57.600So whether you're considering making a move or you're already on your self-employed journey and want to know what goes on behind the scenes of well-known freelance businesses, you're in the right place.
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00:01:00.640So let's dive into today's conversation.
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00:01:12.640Bethany Hello Smith spent over a decade working in the charity sector, specialising in relationship fundraising with organisations like the British Red Cross, Wales Millennium Centre, and Frank Water.
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00:01:22.400In 2020, she founded Rwen Coaching, where she supports freelancers and fundraisers to do good and be well through her coaching and facilitation work.
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00:01:24.879Bethany, welcome to the other side.
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00:01:26.879Thank you so much for having me.
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00:01:28.239I'm so pleased to be here.
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00:01:31.840I've listened to all of the episodes and I'm like, it's my turn, yay!
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00:01:34.719Really happy to have this conversation.
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00:01:40.640I was so um concerned with pronouncing Rwen right that I actually mispronounced coaching.
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00:01:42.400It is coaching, it's not coaching.
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00:01:43.519So apologies for that.
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00:01:45.439I was like, say it right, say it right.
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00:01:50.799Yeah.
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00:01:56.319So first of all, it'd be great to just hear a bit about your charity background, Bethany.
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00:01:58.239How did you first get into charity?
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00:02:08.240Yeah, so um I started out in telephone fundraising actually, um, and it was an evening job alongside my degree.
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00:02:25.919Um, I would do my um my textile art degree in the day in the in the workshops, printing and sewing, and then from five till eight, Monday to Friday, I would go to a little call centre in the centre of Cardiff and jump on the phones and talk about charities.
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00:02:31.680And it's not really a badge of honour I can wear anymore, but I was the best cold caller they had.
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00:02:38.639Um, I could phone someone up who'd never heard of the charity I was talking about, and they'd sign up for £10 a month at the end of the call.
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00:02:40.960So it taught me a lot of resilience.
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00:02:45.199Um, you get you get the phone put down on you a lot in that job.
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00:03:02.000Um, but yeah, cut a long story short, about six, six or so years later, after I'd graduated and had a few of other different jobs, um, I then started working with British Red Cross, where they were taking their telephone fundraising in-house and having a dedicated team of telephone fundraisers.
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00:03:07.680So I headed that up uh for all of their UK um telephone fundraising.
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00:03:13.199And um, it was around the time that GDPR was coming in, so I'll always remember that.
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00:03:18.879Um, and there was lots of crisis appeals happening, like Syria and things like that.
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00:03:24.319So it was a very interesting time to be a part of all that for sure.
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00:03:29.199Yeah, and um, so how long were you at British Ray Cross before you moved on?
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00:03:30.879Were you there quite a while?
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00:03:33.280Um it was yeah, it was a good few years.
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00:03:47.360Um, and then when I um I got approached actually by Wales Millennium Centre, um, and I thought, what a brilliant opportunity to take my kind of arts background and now my fundraising experience and combine the two.
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00:03:59.120Um, and yeah, it was such a privilege to to work at Wales Millennium Centre and to um look after their individual giving, their memberships, their major donors.
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00:04:14.800Um, I made some lifelong friends and um it was yeah, a real joy to go to the opera with people and putting on fab events with Q ⁇ A's with Sir Matthew Bourne and you know, it was a real highlight of my career.
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00:04:22.399Yeah, um, however, I was working there when the pandemic hit, and being in a live events venue wasn't really the place to be when that happened.
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00:04:34.079So um that's where I was made redundant for the third time before I was 30, um, which might lead you to some conclusions as to why I've ended up freelance.
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00:04:36.079Yeah, well, that was going to be my next question.
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00:04:38.720What was the driver for setting up your own business?
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00:04:41.600That was happening in 2020, but I think you've just answered that.
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00:04:44.079Yeah, um, I can definitely elaborate.
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00:04:51.519Um, yeah, so before I was 30, I was made redundant three times, um, all through circumstances totally out of my control, may I add.
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00:04:58.480Um, charities closing or projects changing, or you know, uh the final one uh during the pandemic.
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00:05:03.600And while I was on furlough, I kept thinking about my two grandmothers.
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00:05:08.319Um, they were both called Eileen, which is now my daughter's middle name.
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00:05:14.319Um, and they used to tell me stories about what they did during World War II.
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00:05:27.439Um so one of them would kind of be um up on top of high-rise buildings, ringing a bell if she saw planes, the other one was taking in uh refugees into rural Devon, and I just was always so wowed by their stories.
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00:05:35.759And I remember thinking when I was on furlough, what do I want to say I did during the pandemic to my future children at the time or my future grandchildren?
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00:05:41.040And I just didn't want my answer to be I watched a lot of Netflix on the sofa.
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00:06:00.399Um, so I started volunteering for charities who had furloughed their own stuff, um, and that led to my first freelance work, um, which was actually writing grant applications, which as a dyslexic pre-Chat GPT uh was absolutely not my natural habitat.
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00:06:14.079Um, but freelancing itself was absolutely for me, and I can remember dancing around my tiny little flat in Cardiff to the um is it the Nina Simone song?
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00:06:24.879Um, I wish I knew how it would feel to be free, and I would like change the lyrics to freelance, and I would be like dancing around and just feeling amazing.
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00:06:30.399Um, but it's you know, always I always thought freelance was too risky.
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00:06:37.920Um, and ironically, I feel far more secure working for myself now than I actually ever did being employed.
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00:06:54.079Um the less stamorous bit about that is that uh my husband and I were buying a house, uh, our first home uh at the time, and our mortgage luckily got approved at 5 pm the day before I got made redundant.
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00:06:54.879Oh my god.
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00:06:56.480Um wow.
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00:07:02.959So yeah, I I I tried to kind of think about how I could make sure that I was going to be covering my mortgage.
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00:07:13.600So I eased into freelancing rather than leaping, and I and I was lucky enough to work part-time for Frank Water while I was um setting up my business and training to be a coach.
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00:07:16.720And that was during the pandemic, that was those years.
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00:07:17.120Yeah.
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00:07:22.480Yeah, so it was like late 2020, I think it was like July 2020, I got me redundant.
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00:07:32.800Um, and then yeah, late 2020, I set up my business, carried on working for Frank Water for I sort of see it as like um a bit of a safety net.
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00:07:41.279It was really nice to have two and a half days working in house where I could, you know, look after their big give campaigns.
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00:07:47.519I was also working part-time as a fundraising consultant as well for the funding centre, who I still work with today.
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00:07:57.040Um, and it was just nice to be able to do my coaching training, but also slowly build my business and not have the pressure of it needing to pay me straight away.
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00:08:02.639Um, but after about a year, the business felt solid enough um to go full-time.
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00:08:06.079Um, and so now I've been fully freelanced since 2021.
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00:08:06.959Amazing.
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00:08:12.399So, what do you think your fundraising kind of background taught you about working for yourself?
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00:08:18.319Uh it definitely taught me um like communication skills.
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00:08:27.279I think I take a lot from my relationships with major donors, in particular when I was at Wales Millennium Centre, into my relationships with my clients.
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00:08:51.039So touch points and keeping up with people and showing a genuine interest in people's lives and situations, um, you know, communicating online or picking up the phone, even and and having that uh relationship uh management, I guess, relationship nurturing those relationships, I would say, is probably the biggest thing.
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00:08:57.200Um, fundraising is also sales, but uh of happy, nice feelings and impact, right?
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00:09:05.519So there's a lot of sales kind of transferable skills when it comes to then um selling a service and supporting people through your business.
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00:09:13.519Yeah, and I bet that resilience that you talked about when you were working in the call centre as well, like is very because you need to have quite a tough skin, I think, you know.
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00:09:14.639So for sure.
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00:09:16.000Yeah, yeah.
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00:09:19.759So you've got um two small children, haven't you, Bethany?
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00:09:27.279Um and I just wanted to ask a bit about that because there may be other people listening who have children, small children.
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00:09:41.279It would be interesting to find out a bit of the practical kind of like how you manage your time, like what if there is a typical week, what that looks like, and um maybe kind of how you juggle kind of childcare and client work as well.
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00:09:42.559Yeah, absolutely.
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00:09:46.879So I had my daughter Rosalie in April 2022.
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00:09:51.440Um, and my at the time my husband and I did shared parental leave.
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00:09:59.679So what that meant was I could um breastfeed and gently return to my business after four and a half months.
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00:10:04.639Um, although I was terrified that I had I'd have nothing to come back to.
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00:10:08.240Um, but my business and my clients were still there waiting, which was nice.
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00:10:15.919Um, and then uh just last year, January 2025, um, I had our second child Rupert.
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00:10:18.559Um, and at that point I took seven months off.
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00:10:22.080I felt like I needed a bit longer, um, going from one to two.
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00:10:23.919Um, it felt very different.
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00:10:27.919I had much more foundations in place from my business.
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00:10:45.840Um, and when I came back, previous clients returned and new ones um had been joining a waiting list, and it and it all felt incredibly affirming and like a piece of me was coming back after a kind of tricky uh and quite traumatic birth with Rupert and a difficult time postpartum.
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00:10:52.480Um yeah, now and and and now the the juggle is is absolutely real.
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00:11:02.320Um I I don't wear busy as the badge of honour, but I think having two young children, a husband, a business, um, life is definitely full.
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00:11:06.000So I don't think there's any normal day necessarily.
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00:11:11.440Most days are a mix of client work, building my business and and juggling, kind of being a parent.
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00:11:16.720But week on week, um, I have I look after Rosalie and Rupert on a Monday.
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00:11:20.240We do like toddler swimming and hang out with all my mum friends.
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00:11:25.279And I'd say that's something that you know it's not more, it's more related to parenting than freelancing.
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00:11:42.559But um I can remember when I was uh pregnant with Rosalie, I was really worried about not having a village around me because I wasn't working in-house as you know, necessarily as part of a big team and and um you know didn't have a work baby shower or anything like that.
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00:11:45.200And I felt like, oh goodness, how how am I going to do this?
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00:11:57.919But we did an antenatal class, um, and the mums and dads and uh that I met on that have become our village and we still spend um a lot of our week together and sort of co-parent together.
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00:12:07.200Like on Monday, we went to a National Trust property and it was six mums, and I everyone kept asking us, are we part of a are we from a nursery?
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00:12:09.840And we're like, no, we just hang out because it's easier.
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00:12:14.720We know we've got like you know, 12 eyes on the children, and you know, we just share everything.
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00:12:16.080So that's been amazing.
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00:12:18.720Um, and then Tuesday, Wednesday they're both in childcare.
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00:12:25.919Rosalie goes to preschool and Rupert goes to a childminder, although childminder's child was sick today, so he's off.
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00:12:31.679But luckily, my husband's uh taking the day off because I had lots of lots of calls happening on today.
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00:12:41.039Um, and what Thursdays I have them on my own again, so I've just signed up Rosalie to ballet um on a Thursday, so we're gonna go along to that.
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00:12:44.879There's a lot of Rupert going along to things, bless him, being the second one.
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00:12:52.320Um, and then Friday I have Rupert on his own, and Rosa goes to preschool and we do a nice music class.
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00:13:01.440Um, and on those days that I mentioned that I have the children, my husband um is a civil servant and he works half past six in the morning till half past two.
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00:13:18.720So the juggle there is that uh the kind of yeah, the the way that works is that he finishes at half past two, and then I can work half past two through till half five and get a you know at least a session in with a client or um do some work on my business or something on those days as well.
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00:13:26.000So I do work every day, but it's only about 20 hours um uh a week.
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00:13:30.240Yeah, well that's great though, that you've managed to come up with this kind of solution.
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00:13:39.120And I guess it's always evolving as you will have found from having one to two, but also as they get older and yeah, Bruce has stuff school in septum school.
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00:13:41.519Yeah, it'll be different again.
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00:13:45.120Um, so yeah, I mean it's great.
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00:13:51.039And I think communicating that having that open lines of communication is so so key, isn't it?
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00:14:06.159In those, I mean, I'm mine are much older now, but I still find that is so important that you know me, it sounds so dull, but me and my husband will sit down on the diaries, you know, at the beginning of the month and just be like, right, who's where when, you know, and just talk about it all out.
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00:14:22.240We've got a family Google calendar and email address because when I had children, I was really I wanted to be really clear that it's a two-person operation with me and my husband, and that it all the mental load shouldn't fall on my shoulders.
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00:14:36.399Um, so we start we from the very beginning we had a a family at um email address and anything to do with the children, doctor's appointments, swimming lessons, you know, all of that goes into that inbox that we've both got access to.
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00:14:42.480And it means that we've both got our Google calendars on our phones and it just it works.
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00:14:52.000My Owen Coaching um calendar talks to that one so Alex knows when I'm in meetings, and um yeah, technology really helps with that.
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00:14:58.480Um definitely so tell me about some of the challenges that you faced in your business.
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00:15:00.879Oh, challenges.
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00:15:09.120Um I think definitely uh being like a one-woman band is a challenge.
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00:15:13.919Um, sometimes you can be doing something and you think, oh, is this the right thing?
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00:15:17.519Or am I saying the right thing here?
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00:15:18.879Am I doing the right thing here?
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00:15:25.759And and it can be a bit um a bit worrying, can't it, when you're making decisions in a bit of an echo chamber.
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00:15:35.360But I definitely lean on like business besties and and have regular nice catch-ups with people and talk things through with them.
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00:15:38.159Um, I've got a coach of my own as well.
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00:15:39.840Every coach should have a coach.
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00:15:42.080So that's really helpful.
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00:15:53.200Um, but yeah, that's probably the the main thing is is the you you kind of second guess yourself a little bit when you're making decisions because you can't just wheel your office chair over and be like, what do you think of this?
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00:15:56.480and and kind of check it with a a team member.
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00:16:06.639Um, and then the other thing that I've already discussed is the juggle, isn't it, of trying to run a run a business in 20, probably less than that, hours a week.
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00:16:18.240Um, and I'm I just feel so lucky that that is a problem that I have though, because I earn more doing that than I ever could working 20 hours um anywhere else.
00:16:18.320 -->
00:16:24.960So yeah, I mean, arguably your business has allowed that level of flexibility that may not have been.
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00:16:37.519I mean, I appreciate that since COVID, a lot of organisations are way more kind of um open to these kind of different ways of working, but um, even so, we're almost seeing a slight kind of return to how things were pre-COVID as well, aren't we?
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00:16:40.080Like uh a bit of a shift back that way.
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00:16:42.799But um but yes, yeah, yeah.
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00:16:47.039I feel very lucky that I'm able to set my own hours.
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00:16:51.600I I actually said to my coach that and she was like, maybe that's not for LinkedIn, so I probably shouldn't say it here either.
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00:16:54.960But hey ho, um, I actually think I'm unemployable at this point.
00:16:54.960 -->
00:16:57.279Like I've had so much autonomy now.
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00:17:07.519The thought of having to ask someone else's permission to go and watch my daughter's nativity just gives me the it seems alien, doesn't it?
00:17:07.519 -->
00:17:09.279It does, it gives me the ick.
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00:17:12.799No, I totally hear you.
00:17:12.799 -->
00:17:14.160I couldn't get a job now.
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00:17:16.480I mean, I'd so therefore this has to work.
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00:17:17.839Totally, right?
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00:17:19.279Yeah, absolutely.
00:17:19.519 -->
00:17:21.680Um, what gives you the edge?
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00:17:27.279This might be a bit of an icky question to ask, but what do you think the secret to your success is?
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00:17:37.599Um I do think I am determined would be the nice word, although bloody-minded has also been battered about.
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00:17:44.480Um, I think I'm quite relentless when I've got something that I really want to make work.
00:17:44.480 -->
00:17:46.400I get creative and I get innovative.
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00:18:13.920I'm dyslexic, so I think in a very different way to um neurotypical people, and and I really find a creative solution for things if they're not quite working, and I've lent into all of my um natural skill sets when it comes to running my business and anything that doesn't feel natural, even from the very, very beginning when I had very little budget, I've had an accountant.
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00:18:18.640I just don't want to be dealing with HMRC, that just terrifies me.
00:18:18.640 -->
00:18:21.200So I've had an accountant, she deals with HMRC.
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00:18:32.480I do my own bookkeeping and give her my accounts and invoicing and stuff like that, but the thought of doing something official like that is just not where my head's at at all.
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00:18:39.440So I'm very comfortable and happy to pay somebody for their expertise to help my business.
00:18:39.440 -->
00:18:51.359So a web designer for setting up my website and you know, things like that where you know I'm expecting people to pay me for my skills, so I also think it's really important to pay others for their skills.
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00:19:13.440Um of course there's things that I muddle through and and work out as I go along as well, but um, yeah, I think having a strong team of people around you, even if they're not part of your business, they're kind of an extended network of people that um are there and have a kind of a vested interest in your success and share their skills.
00:19:13.759 -->
00:19:14.559Yeah, I love that.
00:19:14.559 -->
00:19:15.839I think that's so key.
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00:19:21.359Um, so you mentioned a little bit about kind of networks and community and support that you found useful.
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00:19:26.480Um, can you kind of elaborate a little bit more on that for the might be helpful for others?
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00:19:31.759Yeah, so um I've been really loving going along to the Charity Freelancer chat.
00:19:31.759 -->
00:19:35.359I've been the um the host a couple of times now, I think.
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00:19:37.440Um, so that's been really lovely.
00:19:37.440 -->
00:19:44.640Um, I'm also a member of the European mentoring and coaching um community.
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00:19:50.960So they do a lot of um networking events and um like coach supervision and that kind of stuff.
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00:19:52.400So that's been really nice.
00:19:52.400 -->
00:20:05.839Um I'm a mentor at Femme Mentored, and I'm gonna be um doing a lightning talk for them in their upcoming community um like networking event that's coming up, so that's really exciting.
00:20:05.839 -->
00:20:15.680So that's all the kind of online stuff, but then I was really craving like in-person stuff as well, which is really difficult for me when I've got two young children, like a one-year-old and a three-year-old.
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00:20:17.680I don't leave the house after dark, Jane.
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00:20:34.160It's it's um, but I am part of a local group here um in South Gloucestershire called The Offering, and it's a very casual group, it's a WhatsApp, uh, a WhatsApp group, um, but it's where women support one another.
00:20:34.160 -->
00:20:41.680Um, and the the kind of the what links us all in the group is that we support others for a living.
00:20:41.680 -->
00:20:53.759So there's yoga teachers, breathwork, Reiki, coaching, um, loads of different people in there, um, and we'll come together um as much as we can.
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00:21:23.200I haven't been to as many as I would like, but um we'll we'll we'll get together and one of us will host and share our skills, um, and we'll do a bit of a potluck, and and so one time it might be a breath work workshop, and the other time we might do some yoga and uh share some food and and have a chat about what it's like to be a woman uh running a business and um supporting others because that that kind of compassion fatigue is a real um a real thing.
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00:21:28.640I think you take on a lot of other people's challenges and pressures, don't you, when you're working with lots of different clients.
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00:21:32.079So it's nice to have that, it's really beautiful and restoring.
00:21:32.400 -->
00:21:33.680Yeah, that sounds wonderful.
00:21:33.680 -->
00:21:35.200What a lovely idea.
00:21:35.200 -->
00:21:44.640Um, and I I mean I completely echo what you said because I think there's so much online that can support you, which is fantastic and has made it really accessible for people all over the world.
00:21:44.640 -->
00:21:52.559Um but that kind of in person connection, I was really craving it last year, but I hadn't really identified that I was craving it, if that makes sense.
00:21:52.559 -->
00:21:59.440I just knew that I was becoming a real hermit and that the idea of going to something was freaking me out a little bit, and I was like, this is not like me.
00:21:59.440 -->
00:22:03.759To be like quite extrovert and you know like and start with a party.
00:22:03.759 -->
00:22:11.680Um, and I'd go to some events or um uh you know go and meet some clients or whatever, and I'd find just standing really awkward.
00:22:11.680 -->
00:22:14.000Like, what do I do with my hands, you know?
00:22:14.000 -->
00:22:17.920Because I was so used to just sitting at the desk, you know, sitting here basically.
00:22:17.920 -->
00:22:22.000Um, and that was when I realized I was like, I need to be doing more of this, you know.
00:22:22.319 -->
00:22:29.519Yeah, people people um find it funny that I'm five foot ten when they meet me because I'm tall.
00:22:30.319 -->
00:22:31.680I'm like it's the opposite.
00:22:31.920 -->
00:22:34.240I get I didn't realize you were so short.
00:22:34.240 -->
00:22:57.279Yeah, I think I've got a bit of a double whammy with that because it's been the pandemic and everything's gone online, but also then having young children and being someone that works from home and then kind of you know, between the webinar that I just hosted and talking to you, I was breastfeeding my son, and I'm very um connected to home and family right now.
00:22:57.279 -->
00:23:01.440And I so I think I've got a bit of a double whammy of like not doing things in person.
00:23:01.440 -->
00:23:04.319So that is something that I'm looking forward to.
00:23:04.319 -->
00:23:12.960Um, not that I'm in any hurry to stop breastfeeding Reaper, but I think it it is something that um when that time comes, I'll be embracing more.
00:23:12.960 -->
00:23:18.319Um, there's lots going on in London that I want to hop on the train and and be part of, so I'm excited to do that more.
00:23:18.319 -->
00:23:19.599Definitely.
00:23:20.000 -->
00:23:30.480Um, so tell me some advice that you'd give to other people who are considering leaving nine to five if they're listening to this episode and they're thinking about it, but they're umming and R a ing and not quite sure.
00:23:30.480 -->
00:23:32.400What would your advice be?
00:23:32.960 -->
00:23:38.079I think my biggest advice for people that are thinking about going freelance would be to focus on sustainability.
00:23:38.079 -->
00:23:55.920And I know that that's not the sexy place to start, but I think freelance can offer flexibility and also a lot of uncertainty, emotional labour, and and responsibility that that more than um responsibility that people expect, I guess.
00:23:55.920 -->
00:24:04.559Um, so I I think don't wait until you're overwhelmed to think about boundaries, income needs, and and things like support.
00:24:04.559 -->
00:24:13.519Um, so I would, if I was to go back to 2020, I would tell myself to kind of put a gentle structure into place early on.
00:24:13.519 -->
00:24:23.519Um, and don't the other thing I think is to not um measure your worth by how busy you are or how quiet things feel.
00:24:23.519 -->
00:24:27.119Um, I think you learn that as you go through the years.
00:24:27.119 -->
00:24:40.000I'm on sort of year six now, and I'm and I feel the rhythms of income through a year, and I think that's almost something you've you've got to experience for yourself as well.
00:24:40.000 -->
00:24:43.680But freelancing can be brilliant work, especially in the charity sector.
00:24:43.680 -->
00:24:53.599It um but it does work best if it's designed around your life and your well-being, I think, most importantly, and not built on kind of constant urgency or self-sacrifice.
00:24:53.599 -->
00:24:58.799Um, particularly if you're kind of uh a freelance fundraiser working with multiple clients.
00:24:58.799 -->
00:25:14.400I see all the time that my clients that that do that kind of work are just holding so much pressure and um and urgency from other people that their week almost gets dictated by other people's crisis.
00:25:14.400 -->
00:25:23.039Um, and so the the flexibility, autonomy, and creativity that they thought they were going into actually um isn't that.
00:25:23.039 -->
00:25:32.480So I like to help the freelancers that I coach to find steady ways of doing things, even when things wobble and we're on the roller coaster of the charity sector.
00:25:32.480 -->
00:25:41.920Um, I think it's important to kind of build community early and um make sure that freelancing doesn't feel lonely and to trust yourself actually as well.
00:25:41.920 -->
00:25:48.319Like charity work gives us a lot of resilience, empathy, and problem-solving skills, doesn't it?
00:25:48.319 -->
00:25:55.200And I think that that in spades is beautifully transferred to freelance work, it really is.
00:25:55.519 -->
00:25:57.359Yeah, I would agree with all of that.
00:25:57.359 -->
00:26:01.039I think that's such wise, wise advice.
00:26:01.039 -->
00:26:09.839Um, you also had some great advice about people who might be thinking about starting family or with small children around freelance.
00:26:09.839 -->
00:26:11.759So, can you talk a bit about some of that?
00:26:12.079 -->
00:26:12.960Yeah, for sure.
00:26:12.960 -->
00:26:17.440I I definitely get this question a lot from people who might be thinking about starting families.
00:26:17.440 -->
00:26:19.680Like, how did you do it whilst being freelance?
00:26:19.680 -->
00:26:21.759Is it um is it easy?
00:26:21.759 -->
00:26:22.400Is it hard?
00:26:22.400 -->
00:26:27.359Am I better off being in-house and getting some kind of paid maternity leave and things like that?
00:26:27.359 -->
00:26:38.559And I do think my situation is quite unique and it it's a setup that um wouldn't be possible if my husband wasn't a civil servant.
00:26:38.559 -->
00:26:43.200Um, so the way that we did it was that we did shared parental leave.
00:26:43.200 -->
00:26:55.680So um, if I foregoed my maternity allowance, I think illegally I had to take two weeks, but if I said no to everything else, it unlocked my husband, Alex, having six months off full pay.
00:26:55.680 -->
00:27:05.279So that meant that we after Rosalie, we had time off together because we were just becoming parents for the first time, and so we we needed that as a family.
00:27:05.279 -->
00:27:11.039And I think the thought of him going back after two weeks is just bonkers.
00:27:11.039 -->
00:27:14.079Like I think my dad went back after two days when I was born.
00:27:14.079 -->
00:27:23.440Like, so to have six months where you know, for the first four and a half months, we were just acclimatizing to be coming parents was so special.
00:27:23.440 -->
00:27:34.240And then to have a month and a half where Alex was completely off and I was able to start the engines of my business and beat the drum of I'm coming back, is anyone there to work with me was really nice.
00:27:34.240 -->
00:27:49.039And then post-Rupert, um, Alex took three months off initially when Rupert was born, went back to work over the spring summer where um I was still off, but also then getting engines running again on my business come July.
00:27:49.039 -->
00:27:54.640And then he had another three months off, October to Christmas, when I knew that I would be busier.
00:27:54.640 -->
00:27:57.279So that's what I mean by learning the rhythms of your business.
00:27:57.279 -->
00:28:13.359And I think everybody knows that the sector gets quite noisy and busy in the autumn in the run up to Christmas, but I recognize that his his time being off was better spent not over the summer where it's quieter, and actually pausing that um and and having that in the autumn.
00:28:13.359 -->
00:28:20.640And I think there's there's so many benefits to that that we didn't even really think about beforehand.
00:28:20.640 -->
00:28:31.759Like I was able to keep my business running, which really serves me and and allows me to have that part of myself that makes me a better mother at the same time.
00:28:31.759 -->
00:28:41.920Um, and my husband was able to have real proper quality time with our children and the relationships that he now has with them are so beautiful.
00:28:41.920 -->
00:28:56.400And you know, he used to take Rupert out to a National Trust property every Wednesday for the full day, and I would have a full day at my desk doing what I loved, working with clients, supporting them, and they'd go off and they'd have like a lovely time at a national trust property.
00:28:56.400 -->
00:29:03.599And and I just to think that Alex would have been sat at a desk doing his job and not having that special time is really sad.
00:29:03.599 -->
00:29:19.759So I I think it should be more normal that people create a rhythm on a setup that actually works for them as a family and not necessarily fall into what society thinks is the right normal way.
00:29:20.319 -->
00:29:21.839Yeah, what's dictated to them.
00:29:21.839 -->
00:29:23.279Yeah, definitely.
00:29:23.279 -->
00:29:28.559Um do you have any kind of myths that you want to bust around freelancing?
00:29:28.559 -->
00:29:33.680Anything that you hear commonly said that you just think, no, that's not correct.
00:29:35.759 -->
00:29:55.839I think a lot of people, I don't know if it's a myth, but I think a lot of people imagine freelancing as almost being similar to what they did in-house but without a manager, and and they kind of just go into it thinking that, and that's got that's got positives and negatives, I think.
00:29:55.839 -->
00:30:22.400It positive-wise is that it's the transferable skills and you know your job and and all of that, but the negative side of that is that actually you take what you've been programmed, really, and I see it in my daughter already, she's three at preschool, and she's in a routine of nine till three, and and it and it's it's from she was two and a half when she started going there, so it's early doors.
00:30:22.400 -->
00:30:36.640Um often when I coach freelancers that have just started going freelance or I help them to go freelance through my coaching, it's the deprogramming of you don't actually have to work Monday to Friday, nine till five.
00:30:36.640 -->
00:30:42.720And telling you don't actually have to tell your client how long it's gonna take you to do that piece of work.
00:30:42.720 -->
00:30:49.519And I think swapping time for money is something that I'm sure you are coming across all the time at the moment as well.
00:30:49.519 -->
00:31:11.599It's I think there's a real shift in um in freelancers working within the charity space, thinking that actually we're gonna charge for outputs and impact rather than time, because I've I've also noticed that as my clients get more experience, they've been in they've been freelancing for three, five years, they're able to do their job faster.
00:31:11.599 -->
00:31:13.440So they're actually getting paid less.
00:31:13.440 -->
00:31:15.119Yeah, which makes no sense.
00:31:15.119 -->
00:31:35.599So um I think yeah, making sure that you don't take your pre-programmed in-house school mindset into freelancing and actually redesign it to be something that works for you, your family, your business, your energy levels, your capacity, your creativity.
00:31:35.599 -->
00:31:41.599Um, and then yeah, making sure that you're um yeah, you're designing it for you because it's your business.
00:31:41.920 -->
00:31:45.920And keep doing that, keep revisiting that work because that is not never-ending.
00:31:45.920 -->
00:31:52.799It is like you've just got to keep looking at that, like we said, you know, children get bigger, circumstances change, whatever.
00:31:52.799 -->
00:31:55.759Um I mean, I still battle with that.
00:31:55.759 -->
00:32:09.200And I was talking to someone this morning about that very thing, you know, just sort of coming back from my morning swim, which is one of the new things that I've been able to do since I've been freelancing, you know, that I can get I've dropped my daughter off to school, go for a swim, wonderful way to start a day.
00:32:09.200 -->
00:32:14.480But then coming back from there, I think panicking slightly, I wasn't at my desk, you know, and just being like, oh, I've got to get back to it.
00:32:14.480 -->
00:32:15.759It's like, hang on, what?
00:32:16.000 -->
00:32:17.359Yeah, that's just crazy.
00:32:17.519 -->
00:32:20.319And I've been doing this for eight years and I still get that feeling.
00:32:20.559 -->
00:32:28.000Yeah, it's so ingrained in us, it's so ingrained that have that guilt of oh, why someone's expecting me to do something.
00:32:28.000 -->
00:32:29.759Yeah, exactly.
00:32:30.000 -->
00:32:31.599Always on, that always on mentality.
00:32:31.599 -->
00:32:32.480Totally, yeah.
00:32:32.480 -->
00:32:42.319Um okay, so what just before we finish off, I'd love to know your kind of insights in what uh you might we might see changing in the charity sector in 2026.
00:32:42.319 -->
00:32:44.640What are your reflections on that or thoughts on that?
00:32:44.880 -->
00:32:46.319Um, it's interesting, isn't it?
00:32:46.319 -->
00:32:56.960And in the job that I do, I get the innermost thoughts of a lot of people across the sector in confidence.
00:32:56.960 -->
00:33:05.039Obviously, I'll anomalize everything as I'm talking about it, but I coach founders, CEOs, fundraisers, freelancers.
00:33:05.039 -->
00:33:16.799So I see and hear people's um innermost challenges across so many different angles of the charity sector.
00:33:16.799 -->
00:33:26.079Um, and it's so interesting when you start to hear themes or similarities or, you know, oh, someone else mentioned that the other day.
00:33:26.079 -->
00:33:31.359Um, and I think a massive one is that the way that we're working just isn't sustainable.
00:33:31.359 -->
00:33:46.319Um, and I and I keep coming back to sustainability like not just being a an environmental crisis and and actually being a people-focused crisis and people's workloads being unmanageable.
00:33:46.319 -->
00:33:53.680And it came up on the on the podcast that uh on the sorry on the webinar that we were doing earlier today on um on AI.
00:33:53.680 -->
00:34:10.480Like the use of AI is is very helpful in some respects, but also very harmful because expectations have risen of output and speed um in terms of what people expect people to be able to turn around and and do.
00:34:10.480 -->
00:34:17.760And and um so I think that needs to be watched very carefully to make sure that it doesn't become a bit of a runaway train.
00:34:17.760 -->
00:34:26.079Um, so just pulling it back and making sure that we're being sustainable and we're looking after ourselves is the the drum I'm always banging.
00:34:26.320 -->
00:34:27.760Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:27.760 -->
00:34:32.800Um, how can listeners find out more about you, Bethany, and and what you're up to?
00:34:33.119 -->
00:34:35.039Um, so I absolutely love LinkedIn.
00:34:35.039 -->
00:34:37.519Um, I am on there all the time.
00:34:37.519 -->
00:34:38.639I love a voice note.
00:34:38.639 -->
00:34:43.760So if someone wants to send me a voice note DM on LinkedIn, I would love to respond in that way.
00:34:43.760 -->
00:34:52.320Um, otherwise, everything is on owencoaching.co.uk, so awencoaching.co.uk.
00:34:52.320 -->
00:34:59.840Um, and there's lots on there, like all of the recordings of my free monthly webinars, uh, free resources.
00:34:59.840 -->
00:35:09.199You could also sign up to my mailing list, um, which is where I I love to share like a moment of pause for people's inboxes.
00:35:09.199 -->
00:35:12.880I think our inboxes are noisy and hectic a lot of the time.
00:35:12.880 -->
00:35:22.960So I very much try to uh make sure that I'm providing a moment of uh clarity and calm in people's inboxes um through my newsletter.
00:35:22.960 -->
00:35:27.840So that'd be a nice place for people to start to get to know me a bit more in my work.
00:35:27.840 -->
00:35:29.119I love that.
00:35:29.360 -->
00:35:30.880Thank you so much, Bethany.
00:35:30.880 -->
00:35:41.199I really appreciate you spending time with me and with everyone listening today, and um, especially with the your your son not being able to be at the childminder and all of that.
00:35:41.199 -->
00:35:43.760I mean, you know, like you said, the juggle is real.
00:35:43.760 -->
00:35:47.039Um, I really appreciate it.
00:35:47.039 -->
00:35:47.760Thank you so much.
00:35:48.239 -->
00:35:49.280You're so welcome, Jane.
00:35:49.280 -->
00:35:50.000Thank you for having me.
00:35:50.000 -->
00:35:51.199It's been a pleasure.
00:35:51.599 -->
00:35:54.559And that's a wrap on another episode of The Other Side.
00:35:54.559 -->
00:36:01.920If you enjoyed this episode, please consider sharing it with a colleague who might be thinking about their own freelance journey or leave a review.
00:36:01.920 -->
00:36:06.239And if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
00:36:06.239 -->
00:36:10.880You can find all the links and resources we mentioned today in the show notes.
00:36:10.880 -->
00:36:23.119And if you recognise you want more support to build or grow your freelance business, check out the charity freelancing course, which will take you from feeling stuck to confidently thriving as a successful freelancer or founder.
00:36:23.119 -->
00:36:37.039It's a self-paced program designed specifically to help charity professionals launch their life-changing and profitable freelance careers by breaking free from the employee mindset and embracing the abundant world of business ownership.
00:36:37.039 -->
00:36:43.360For more information and to sign up, head to my website, janecurtisevents.com.
00:36:43.360 -->
00:36:48.800Until next time, keep exploring what's possible on the other side.
