Michael Harrison

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Michael Harrison is now on the other side of midnight.
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Which side are you on, Michael?
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I'm on your side. I'm on the listener side and
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I'm on the right side and I'm on the dark side.
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I live on the side.
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The dark side is so much, so much more interesting.
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You live on the side. So that would be a
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side hustle.
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Yeah. Or here's a better one. I walk on the
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wild side.
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That's crazy. That's like a, an ABC show from the
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early 60s.
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You know, Lou Reed was a friend of mine.
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Yes.
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And he came to me at a party. I knew
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him through my friends at Blood, Sweat & Tears, a
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group that you may be too young to remember.
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Yeah.
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And he said to me, Mike, I'd like to play
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for you a song that I just recorded. Step outside.
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I want you to hear this. And he played Walk
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on the Wild Side for me. No one had ever
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really heard it before.
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Yeah. And I couldn't.
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Believe it, you know, do, do, do, do, do, gosh,
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lots of, you know, we have so many stories and
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so many interesting things, but yeah, walk on the wild side.
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Although I don't know if I'm necessarily personally cut from
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that cloth to walk on that wild side. I definitely
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am cut from the cloth to support a guy like that,
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to have a song like that out there in the
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mainstream where there is no side where, There's a side
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to the left of you and a side to the
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right of you, and it's one big wasted desert. And
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I've always enjoyed, and I think that you have too,
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because your career in radio is full of this. I've
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always enjoyed championing outrageous stuff that was considered to be
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the wild side, the dark side, the other side. Okay,
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now we got the side stuff out of the way.
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The reason I have always tried to support the dark
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side and the other side and the new and the
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innovative is two things. One, I do not want a
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career where I have to look at my grandchildren one
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day and say, yeah, you know, I put on light
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FM in Phoenix and I copied it perfectly from Chicago.
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I was, I copied it exactly the way they did
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it in Chicago. That's what I don't want. That's what
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I never want. And the other thing was I, was from,
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of all people, Al Brady Law. When I worked for
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Al Brady Law in New York, when he was at WORFM,
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and I found out about a new format being put
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on the air in another city. And I went in
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to say to him, hey, this is what they're doing
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in this other city. And I kind of knew the
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culture of radio at that point where everybody would say, well,
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it won't work. It'll never work. That's the reaction to
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all new ideas. Al Brady Law looked at me and
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he went, huh, well, it might work. And he meant it.
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He was positive about new ideas. He was either neutral
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or positive. I've never heard him say something won't work.
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And that changed my tone. That changed my worldview because
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I adored him at the time. I thought he was
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a great program director, and he was. So he liked
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new ideas. He was interested. And I didn't want to
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be Light FM in Denver. And therefore, I've always championed
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new ideas. The other fact is that in all media,
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it doesn't exist if you don't have new ideas. It
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does not exist unless you surprise the audience to make
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them talk about you. True of a Broadway show, a
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television show, a movie, the audience has to talk about you.
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And the only way that happens is if something in
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there was new and surprising.
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Yeah, you happen to be right. The problem in today's
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noisy world is that it's very difficult to be original.
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We are awash in common ideas, in conventional wisdom, in
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the conventional way of looking at things. We have hundreds
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of YouTube videos saying the same thing. We have hundreds
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of books saying the same thing. It's like you subscribe
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to The Talking Points, whether it's Light FM in Phoenix
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or the Fermi paradox in terms of science or how
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to bake an apple pie. And you get the talking
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points and then you take your turn doing it. One
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of the things that I have found, and I've always
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found this to be a very admirable thing about you,
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my friend, over the years, and I've tried to adhere
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to it myself, is the quest to be original. And
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one of the most frustrating things, and I think a
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lot of the listeners to this, because I believe a
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lot of the listeners are creative and original. We live
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in the era where the audience has an audience. One
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of the things that I think we can all relate
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to is that you come up with an idea. You
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think it's the greatest thing that ever happened. It's original.
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And you check it out. You Google it. You do
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all that. And you see somebody else is already doing
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it or somebody did it 10 years ago. And it
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could be a name of something. It could be an
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angle on something. So what you're talking about runs real
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deep in terms of the human psyche, especially for modern
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homo sapiens, which we are. You're a quarter of the
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way into the 21st century, a quarter of the way.
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We're on our way to Star Trek days. And it's
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very difficult to be original. And I don't like doing
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what other people do. And sometimes you could be too
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original and there's no platform for you. You're not part
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of any scene. So to be part of a culture,
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to be part of a scene, to be part of
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a trip, as we used to call it, what's the deal?
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You have to not be too original, but you've got
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to be original enough not to be a talking point
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person in terms of your presentation.
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One of the great things about you is that I can,
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with one exception, anytime I have put on a new
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idea on the radio, format, show, host, anytime I put
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on a new idea, it has always been met in
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the radio industry with silence. And I've never, except from
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one person, I never got a phone call from anybody saying,
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good luck. I think that's a great idea. I wish
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you all the best. Except for you. You're the only one.
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Thank you.
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Who's consistently throughout my career has been a cheerleader of
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new ideas. Now you may have quietly thought to yourself,
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that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard, but you don't
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say that you fertilize the ground. You support, I can
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come back to you for improvements and how to make
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it better. But I know I'll have a welcome. I'll
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have a welcome mat from you. Well, that's a very
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big deal.
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I certainly, I certainly don't want to be the judge
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of what's stupid and smart because what I think is
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stupid to be very smart. Um, One of the things
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to learn is that there are limitations to our senses.
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There are limitations to our abilities in terms of smart, stupid, original, unoriginal,
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good idea, bad idea. So you have to entertain things
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that you might, your gut may say, oh, that's ridiculous. Because,
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you know, the idea of four guys with mop tops
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singing British rock and roll and doing covers of Chuck
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Berry songs, that was kind of stupid. I would think
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that that would ever happen. So you got to step
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outside your own ego and your own sensibilities and your
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own experiences and take a shot. And of course, there
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are times when you have to say no, because there
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are stupid loser ideas out there, but you can't be
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too damn sure that you are the guy that holds
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the key to that.
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In fact, in American radio at the time, Despite the popularity,
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there were many programmers and many disc jockeys who did
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not want to play the Beatles. They played them, but
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they didn't like them. They were very happy with the
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American rock and roll stars of the day, with the
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Elvises and the Chuck Berries and the little Peggy Marshes.
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They thought that was all very good. They had to
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play the Beatles.
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I often say to my radio brethren, when they resist...
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moving beyond whatever the current conventional war audience or wisdom is.
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I always say, I'm drawing into my experience here, guys, but,
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guys and gals, but you don't want to be the guy,
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excuse me, you don't want to be the guy stuck
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playing Bobby Rydell and Frankie Avalon records one week after
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the Beatles and the British invasion broke on our shores.
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And it's the same thing now. you've got to be
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very careful that the thing that seems like the sure shot,
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you know, playing to the audience's desires. We see this
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in sports. We see this in politics, especially we see
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it in pop music. Oh my gosh, it is so bad.
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It's ruined pop music. Everybody's playing it safe.
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The weird thing about you can't, the weird thing about
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pop music today is I will be in a city
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and I will listen to Five or six different radio stations,
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FM radio stations, each of which has a different label. CHR,
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adult contemporary, aggressive adult contemporary, mean adult contemporary, a variety
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of labels, right?
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And mature adult contemporary. Right.
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They all sound the same. And they all freaking sound
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the same.
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They're the same announcers.
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The announcers sound the same. Often the announcers are the same.
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That worries me. But the biggest thing that worries me about...
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radio and about most media is I listen to the
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radio today and for the past few years, please surprise me.
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Do something to surprise me. Do something that makes me
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say you're going too far. That's dangerous. I've heard nothing
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close to that.
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Nothing.
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The reason for that is that we are, like many industries,
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run by bankers and bankers want no risk. And the
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people they put in charge are the ones that seem
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the safest to them. They are looking for comfort. Are
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you comfortable with them? That's their qualification for a CEO
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in most cases is are you comfortable with them?
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Right. Well, let me say one thing. I want to
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get this out because the third party in this conversation
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is the audience. And one of the things that I
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take to light in having a conversation like this with
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you at this time is that the people listening to
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this are radio fans. They're radio fans. We're talking to
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the converted. We're talking to the choir. We're talking to
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people who get it. And, you know, we're not talking
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to radio executives and we're not talking to music executives
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and we're not even talking to political executives. We're talking
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to radio listeners. Right. And I say, you know, dance
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with the one that brought you, you know, don't throw away.
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Don't disrespect the people that like what you do or
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like the game, like the theater, the stage, the circus,
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the tent, whatever it might be, the school. And that's
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who's listening to us right now. Everybody listening to us
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right now understands what we're saying because they are the
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real deal. They're radio listeners. They're listening to you on
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the radio. It's great.
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I had on a guest who predicted that by 2031,
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AI was going to reach singularity. I said, what the
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hell does that mean? He said, it means that AI
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won't need us. By 2031, it will teach itself and
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it won't need us. And I said, will it know
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it doesn't need us? He wasn't sure about that answer.
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Well, the question, that's a hard question. And it comes
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down to the most important word that I could say
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right now. And that is the word consciousness. We do
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not know and we will not know whether AI has
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achieved consciousness. I tend to think it never will. But
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that's just me. But we never, I don't know that
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I'm conscious. Well, you know, you don't know that I'm
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conscious and I don't even know that you're conscious. That's right.
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We don't know.
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Right. So how are we going to know about a
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bunch of wires and circuits and machines? AI is a
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great tool. And like all technology, it's a double-edged sword.
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It's dangerous, and it's also a blessing. And how we
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use it is going to be the same way we
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walk the tightrope between foolishness and genius as we have
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with all the other major technologies that have come along.
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like propulsion, like cannonballs, like fire.
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All new technology is birthed in fear. You and I
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are talking to Michael Harrison, who's the publisher of Talkers magazine.
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Radio fan, talk radio fan. You can see the radio
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trade that radio hosts read. And it's free. It's accessible.
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Just go to talkers.com, sign up, put in your email.
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No one's going to bother you. And you can see
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the same thing that your favorite talk show hosts see
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every day from Michael Harrison. I happen to believe that, well,
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before I get to that, all new technology. There were riots,
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riots at Yale in 1805 over the installation of chalkboards
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because it ended the Socratic method of teaching. It was
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one-on-one teaching until there was a chalkboard in front of
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the room, and then the teacher could write stuff down,
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Everybody could see it at once. He could teach 30
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people at once. But it's an entirely different way to learn.
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There were riots over it. And there were parents who
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threatened to pull their kids out and stop paying tuition
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because that isn't what they signed up for.
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Fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. You know, when they used to paint
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on the walls of the caves with pigments with their fingers,
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somebody invented the paintbrush. And that person was looked upon
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as a sellout. That was looked at as artificial brush strokes.
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It's not from the human finger. It comes from a tool. Ooh,
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it's artificial. It's fake. It's not art.
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Except they killed that guy.
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Oh, they killed him, right? Then somebody put it on parchment,
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and there was the first mobile media. My gosh. It
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doesn't have to be stuck on the wall, whether it's
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a brush or your fingers. You can take it with you.
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Ooh.
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What is that going to do the cave wall business?
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Oh my gosh. This thing repeats itself over and over again.
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We, as a species, we are afraid of new and
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we're afraid of new because every day we walked down
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the path to the stream and got fish. And then
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we came back with the fish. And one day, Charlie,
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walk down a different way and everybody's don't go down
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that way we don't know what's down that way he
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went down that way somebody heard a roar and nobody
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saw charlie again and we're whoa we're not going to
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go on anything new again it was ingrained in our
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dna new was a very risky thing we might not
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get the fish and that's where we live every.
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Day wow so what made the roar We don't know.
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We never saw it. It was made by fear.
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I know.
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It was made by fear.
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I know, I know, I know.
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All right, Michael Harrison, I want to thank you very
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much for being on the other side of midnight. Talkers.com.
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If somebody wants to reach you, is there another way
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to reach you besides getting Talkers.com?
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Yeah, they can find me there. All right. That's the
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way to reach me.
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Very grateful. I appreciate the applause that I get from
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you for being innovative, and I thank you for being
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on the other side of midnight.