Michael Segal | Eagle Law Group

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Michael Segal is an attorney with an MBA
who helps companies work through complex

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and changing business environments.

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A former USAF F-15 fighter pilot,
he brings the skills he developed in

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high-intensity, fast-moving situations to
the legal profession and business world.

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His military experience includes leading
airmen in both combat and peacetime

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operations, as well as managing billions
of dollars in Department of Defense

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resources over a 22-year Air Force career.

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His legal practice at Eagle Law Group
focuses on complex commercial litigation

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and transactional work for companies and
government entities, covering business

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litigation, securities law, private
equity, venture capital, and real estate.

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Welcome to the MilCom Founders Podcast,
where we champion and celebrate

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military community business founders.

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In each episode, we will talk with a
MilCom business founder to learn how

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they work through various obstacles and
opportunities in business and in life.

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I'm your host, Rod Loges.

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Let's meet today's guest.

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Welcome, everyone.

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Today on the MilCom Founders
podcast, we get to champion and

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celebrate Michael Segal, while
hopefully educating and inspiring

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other military community founders.

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Michael, welcome to the show.

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Who is Michael Segal?

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First off, Rod, thank you
so much for having me.

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Greatly appreciate it.

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Background on me, born and raised
in Los Angeles, California.

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At the age of 18, went to a
small, little-known university

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called the United States Air Force
Academy, and did my time there.

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From there, went to pilot training
flew F-15Cs and then Es on active duty.

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Got my MBA in the interim.

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Decided, like most fighter pilots,
to, uh, go to law school after that.

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Uh, so did that here back in LA at UCLA.

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Uh, from there, went to a large
law firm called Loeb & Loeb.

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Started off in litigation.

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Knew that I always kind of wanted to
have my own firm, so went to a couple

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smaller firms to learn the business of
law, and then started Eagle Law Group

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in November of 2023, and here we are.

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Fantastic.

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So I just gotta ask, what's
your ideal morning look like?

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If you, if, you know, you're
not rushing out the door, what,

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what's that morning look like?

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Does that include work or a no work

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day?

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No, no, no.

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Before work.

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Before work.

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Okay.

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Well, I'll tell you most recently,
I pretty much live my ideal morning.

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I don't know if you've ever been
to Camp Pendleton, but they have

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these beach bungalows out there
that are right on the water.

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As a ri- a retiree, you can rent
them And, uh, you wake up, you

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walk outside your bungalow, and
you're immediately on the ocean.

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I had my wife and my son there, uh, and
it was just a beautiful California day.

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Spent some time outside, let the,
sand go between your toes and

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get in the water a little bit.

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And, uh, in my mind, it doesn't
get much better than that until the

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legal calls start, at which point-

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Not bad

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...
you no longer feel like
you're on vacation.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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Was it-- Did you stay
there for a week or what?

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Yeah.

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We were there for about four days.

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Took my son to Legoland for
the first time, which, uh, I

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know your, uh, listeners are
very keen on hearing all about.

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So that'll be most of
what I talk about today.

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Absolutely.

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Le- Legos are important, man,
especially when you step on them

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as a-

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...
when your kids are little and they're
running around and step on those things.

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Ugh.

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I can still, I can still
feel the pain, right?

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So what are some things
that are important to you?

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Obviously, your son, your, your wife, but
what's, what's important to you in life?

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Yeah, I mean, you summed
it up pretty nicely.

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Family is very important to me.

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Security, as you know, we well
understand, is immensely important to me.

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Feeling safe where I live, feeling safe
locally, nationally from a multitude of

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different issues that's important to me.

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A sense of community is important to me.

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Obviously I'm somewhat involved in
the veteran community, Los Angeles

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and to some extent nationally as well.

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So I find that community to be fulfilling.

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I like the people in it, and, uh, it
helps me get out of bed in the morning

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knowing that I'm gonna be interacting
with people like you on a regular basis.

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God bless you, man.

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So I, I like that.

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Security and community.

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Uh, absolutely.

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Absolutely.

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So Michael, that little school
you joined when you were 18, how,

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how old were you when you thought,
"I'm gonna join the military"?

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When did "Top Gun" come out?

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Wasn't that Navy?

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It was.

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It was.

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I'm not

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gonna tell you this, like,
incredibly romantic story.

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I watched "Top Gun," and I
was like, "I wanna do that.

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What's the best way to
become a fighter pilot?

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What's the highest probability
of success?" Did my homework.

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Turns out it wasn't going
to the Navy necessarily, it

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was going to the Air Force.

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They just have more fighter jets
Yep ... so, uh, that was the point

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that I decided that looked like the
coolest job in the world, and that's

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what I wanted to do, and then, you know,
designed my entire life around that.

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That's pretty cool.

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I think it's so neat when someone
knows what they wanna do when they

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grow up and they g- they, you know,
my, my buddy wanted to be a dentist.

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He's a dentist.

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Another one wanted to be a doctor.

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My brother wanted to be a doctor.

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My daughter gets ready to graduate
and become a, um, doctor of

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veterinary medicine in about a
month, and she's known that since

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three-- she was three years old.

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She used to walk around the
house and go I wanna be a doggy

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doctor." And now, 25 years later,
she's gonna be a doggy doctor.

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So it's a, I think it's a gift
when you know that, Michael.

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That's pretty cool.

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That's

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pretty cool.

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It's all about execution.

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All about execution and focus.

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100, and she's very
focused, just like you are.

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That's for sure.

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So you join the military, you
go to the Air Force Academy.

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So what did you, what are some of the
key takeaways you had from that, that

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what I imagine was an amazing experience?

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Some key things around leadership,
community, whatever the case may be.

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Yeah, I mean, amazing is
one way of describing it.

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It's tough.

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I'll be straight with you.

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As anyone who's been in the
military knows, it's hard.

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I think the amazing part about it is, one,
the access to information that you have.

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I mean, there are a lot of highly
intelligent people there and they pull

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information some, from some really
interesting sources, so you get to kind

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of see how the, uh, government enterprise
is built out at a very early age.

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And, you know, you certainly get the
chance to lead fairly early on in life.

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You know, as a 20-something-year-old,
you're already in charge of other cadets.

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Uh, so that opportunity doesn't typically
present itself in the commercial sector.

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But most importantly, I mean, it's,
as anyone will tell you, it's the

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relationships that you make while there.

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I mean, everyone's got the, quote-unquote,
"shared trauma" of going through- Uh-huh.

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... uh, you know, that military institution.

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And so, you know, when people go
through difficult things together,

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they obviously bond, and those
bonds last a l- last a lifetime.

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Some of my classmates from the Academy
are, are now my clients for the law firm.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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And what are some of those things you
learned there that you've used in business

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and law in your professional life?

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That's gotta be... I think
I know one of them already.

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I was a legal studies major
at the Academy, so- Oh.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Hmm.

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Direct correlation.

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But yeah, certainly, I mean,
leadership, managing people, right?

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I mean, starting a law firm, not every
attorney does that unless they feel

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comfortable about being in the position of
leading people and growing an enterprise.

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I think also Rigorous analytical thinking.

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I'm not gonna sit here and
claim to you that I was the best

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student at the Air Force Academy.

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I wanted to get grades that were
good enough to be a fighter pilot,

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and that was, that was the goal.

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But they certainly-- You are
forced to think analytically in

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order to graduate the academy.

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Yeah.

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You have to break problems down, uh,
at a very base level in order to be

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able to, you know, just understand
holistically what you're trying to solve.

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There's also resolve, right?

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I mean, anyone's gonna tell you who
that's been through the military that

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I'm not gonna say giving up is not an
option because as attorneys sometimes

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we do recommend settling a lawsuit.

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However, uh, having the resilience
to face tough times, I think

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is the key lesson learned.

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Yep.

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Making the hard decisions.

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Yep.

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Yeah.

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Absolutely.

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So now, are you still
in the Reserves today?

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I am retired from the
Reserves as of August of 2024.

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Okay.

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Okay.

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And you achieved the rank
of lieutenant colonel, or?

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I was a major.

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Major.

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Okay.

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So I kind of gave up on the
promotion track once I went to

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law school and decided that I was
gonna focus on that and not really

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delve too deep into the Reserves.

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Hey, it's, it-- The Air Force has
got the hardest, um, promotion

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cycle in the, in the forces, so
I definitely understand that.

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That's for sure.

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And in the military, what's a good example
of leadership that, that someone set for

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you that you're like, "This person did
this," or, "They treated me this way"?

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What are some of those examples
that you remember forever?

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I think

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the commander of my first fighter
squadron, uh, Chase Balbo, who I

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still talk to from time to time
when I was at the 44th Fighter

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Squadron at Kadena over in Okinawa.

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I mean, he was just such a great
example, always cool and collected.

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You could tell he had thought about things
ahead of time so that when he was put into

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difficult moments he already had enough of
a mental infrastructure in place that he

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could respond in a way that wasn't overly
emotional and that was, sophisticated.

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I mean, he made general, so
clearly he knew what he was doing.

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But long story short he was generally
kind, but could be stern when the

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situation called for it, and that
was- Mm-hmm ... a skill set that I

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tried to emulate during my career.

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And even as the commander of a fighter
squadron who was dealing with a million

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different personnel issues with, you
know, orders and logistics He was

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still highly competent in airplanes.

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The fact that he could
just be good at everything.

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Like how do you do that?

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Uh-huh ... and I do

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my

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best to try and learn from what
he did and emulate his actions.

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Yep.

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Absolutely.

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Very cool.

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So Eagle Law Group why did you start--
decide to start this business with this

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specific practice in mind, specialization?

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Yeah.

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Well, I mean, when I was working at Loeb
& Loeb in Big Law, I noticed that there were

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problems that came across our desks that
were related to aerospace and defense.

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I also noticed that Southern California
and Los Angeles more specifically, uh-

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Mm-hmm ... had a burgeoning aerospace
and defense sector, and I thought using

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my background, I would have a good skill
set in order to acquire some of that

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business and, quite frankly, be of use to
a lot of these companies that are trying

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to break into defense and aerospace.

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You know, a lot of our clients
don't just use my legal services.

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They ask for advice technically,
like, "Hey, I'm building this. How

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do you think that will factor in-
Mm-hmm ... with the rest of the force?"

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This isn't legal advice, but here
are my thoughts on the capabilities.

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Uh, that I think has been something that
most attorneys don't necessarily offer

237
00:12:17,424 --> 00:12:19,704
in their suite of le- legal services.

238
00:12:20,494 --> 00:12:21,274
Well, how could they?

239
00:12:21,274 --> 00:12:22,644
How many of them were fighter pilots?

240
00:12:22,644 --> 00:12:28,094
And then, you know, you got the
geography lined up, you've got the

241
00:12:28,094 --> 00:12:31,354
background lined up, and you've got
the professional skills backed up,

242
00:12:32,024 --> 00:12:33,254
I mean, look at that shock group.

243
00:12:33,254 --> 00:12:34,824
It's pretty, pretty tight then, right?

244
00:12:35,634 --> 00:12:35,744
Yeah.

245
00:12:35,744 --> 00:12:35,944
Uh, I don't

246
00:12:36,034 --> 00:12:38,384
wanna, I don't wanna blow up your
head too much, but- Please do.

247
00:12:38,384 --> 00:12:38,604
Go on ... it's

248
00:12:38,604 --> 00:12:39,564
a pretty tight shock.

249
00:12:39,834 --> 00:12:40,804
I came on,

250
00:12:40,834 --> 00:12:40,934
I

251
00:12:40,934 --> 00:12:42,184
came on this show for a reason,

252
00:12:42,284 --> 00:12:43,084
that's right.

253
00:12:43,174 --> 00:12:43,354
Yeah.

254
00:12:43,384 --> 00:12:43,824
That's right.

255
00:12:44,604 --> 00:12:48,324
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm
like everybody else.

256
00:12:48,515 --> 00:12:50,765
I am now a civilian.

257
00:12:50,814 --> 00:12:52,454
I have to put food on the table.

258
00:12:52,934 --> 00:12:58,894
So where can I add most value and
maximize the use of my skill set?

259
00:12:59,034 --> 00:13:04,234
And I think, being the guy who's
always reading contracts or always

260
00:13:04,234 --> 00:13:08,224
deep in the courtroom, that's probably
not the best use of my skill set.

261
00:13:08,294 --> 00:13:15,094
But managing the people who can
do that specific to this industry.

262
00:13:15,094 --> 00:13:18,364
And, to be fair, we do have a lot of
clients who are not aerospace and defense.

263
00:13:18,364 --> 00:13:20,694
We have like a, you
know, fertility clinic.

264
00:13:20,774 --> 00:13:23,174
We've got, litigation finance.

265
00:13:23,234 --> 00:13:26,734
It's all over the map as
far as our client set.

266
00:13:27,264 --> 00:13:31,284
But the preponderance of the clients
that we work with are in that sector.

267
00:13:31,794 --> 00:13:32,084
Yep.

268
00:13:32,734 --> 00:13:36,904
And you're, you're relatively early in,
in starting your practice, and you're,

269
00:13:36,934 --> 00:13:40,324
you just hired, like you mentioned, is
that your first hire or your second?

270
00:13:40,724 --> 00:13:42,604
This will be our first
full-time employee hire.

271
00:13:42,854 --> 00:13:48,174
Hopefully, she's supposed to start on, uh,
April 29th, and fingers crossed that that

272
00:13:48,174 --> 00:13:52,804
happens, and I can, again, free up some
of my time to think more strategically

273
00:13:52,804 --> 00:13:58,524
versus doing the actual contract reviews,
series As, all the stuff that- Yep

274
00:13:58,674 --> 00:13:59,534
an attorney does.

275
00:13:59,864 --> 00:14:02,374
So when you're working with
these I imagine a lot of them

276
00:14:02,374 --> 00:14:04,104
are veterans that you work with.

277
00:14:04,424 --> 00:14:04,824
That's true.

278
00:14:04,874 --> 00:14:06,694
Just by the nature of your, your business.

279
00:14:07,974 --> 00:14:14,134
What, um, what do you see that makes
for successful business owners?

280
00:14:14,134 --> 00:14:15,664
What qualities, what traits?

281
00:14:15,664 --> 00:14:21,674
What... have you noticed a pattern of what
makes them more likely to be successful?

282
00:14:22,075 --> 00:14:22,694
I have.

283
00:14:23,895 --> 00:14:30,964
One is understanding who they're
gonna sell their product to in

284
00:14:31,434 --> 00:14:33,164
a very high level of detail.

285
00:14:34,054 --> 00:14:40,274
Yeah ... meaning I know a guy or girl,
he or she needs this, I am going to

286
00:14:40,274 --> 00:14:44,354
make this, and then I will be able
to sell it to them once I am done.

287
00:14:45,324 --> 00:14:52,724
Staying organized is something that
I've found effectuates success because

288
00:14:52,724 --> 00:15:00,044
as you scale, problems can get much
bigger if they're left to fester.

289
00:15:01,305 --> 00:15:05,645
And with disorganization, I've
seen that kind of fall apart.

290
00:15:06,934 --> 00:15:10,554
As an initial startup founder, you
know, I've talked about knowing who your

291
00:15:10,554 --> 00:15:14,124
customer is, but being able to sell,
like sell the organization, sell the

292
00:15:14,124 --> 00:15:20,894
vision, sell everything that you're doing
so that people want to dedicate their

293
00:15:20,894 --> 00:15:23,754
time and resources into your endeavor.

294
00:15:23,994 --> 00:15:24,054
Yeah.

295
00:15:24,054 --> 00:15:26,564
And that's, you know, you'll-- you
have to be able to articulate that.

296
00:15:26,564 --> 00:15:30,454
You have to be able to interact
with other human beings well, or

297
00:15:30,454 --> 00:15:32,085
it's a much more difficult path.

298
00:15:32,504 --> 00:15:33,685
What about coachability?

299
00:15:33,804 --> 00:15:36,574
Do you think that's a big one, or
what have you experienced with that?

300
00:15:37,044 --> 00:15:38,084
Yeah, sometimes.

301
00:15:38,544 --> 00:15:44,064
I mean, I've met hard-headed founders who
are not super coachable, but they're good

302
00:15:44,064 --> 00:15:51,424
enough on raw charisma that sometimes they
can survive, and technical confidence,

303
00:15:51,424 --> 00:15:55,454
that they can survive on that alone.

304
00:15:55,694 --> 00:15:57,384
I will say coachability helps.

305
00:15:57,904 --> 00:16:01,684
Certainly, you know, you
have a team of advisors.

306
00:16:02,214 --> 00:16:04,304
Hopefully, they're giving you good advice.

307
00:16:04,534 --> 00:16:09,904
If you're consistently blowing them
off, maybe not the best strategy.

308
00:16:10,394 --> 00:16:14,799
But I have seen startup founders
who are just bullheaded.

309
00:16:14,989 --> 00:16:15,879
This is gonna work.

310
00:16:16,349 --> 00:16:16,709
Got it.

311
00:16:16,709 --> 00:16:17,409
That's the risk.

312
00:16:17,449 --> 00:16:18,499
I'm pressing forward.

313
00:16:19,339 --> 00:16:24,439
So yes, that is important to an extent.

314
00:16:24,789 --> 00:16:29,899
But I think we've all heard of the
intense founder who's just gonna

315
00:16:29,899 --> 00:16:31,259
make this work one way or another.

316
00:16:31,729 --> 00:16:32,299
That's true.

317
00:16:32,389 --> 00:16:33,079
That's very true.

318
00:16:33,139 --> 00:16:38,349
So this whole advent of AI you know,
this thing that's gonna come down the

319
00:16:38,349 --> 00:16:39,989
road in another week or two, right?

320
00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:42,979
How's that impacting your
business already today?

321
00:16:43,329 --> 00:16:46,979
Yeah, I mean, Rod, I assume
you use AI quite a bit.

322
00:16:47,169 --> 00:16:47,899
So do I. Yep.

323
00:16:48,109 --> 00:16:50,119
I use it for research all the time.

324
00:16:50,119 --> 00:16:55,869
It's, quite frankly, now the hard
part is figuring out which AI to use.

325
00:16:55,869 --> 00:16:59,879
Like there's Claude, ChatGPT,
CoCounsel for Westlaw.

326
00:16:59,989 --> 00:17:01,629
There's Clearwork.

327
00:17:01,789 --> 00:17:02,929
Like it is-

328
00:17:03,199 --> 00:17:03,409
Yep

329
00:17:03,409 --> 00:17:09,949
...
become overwhelming, the amount of AI
that's out there and trying to find

330
00:17:09,949 --> 00:17:12,679
one ring to rule them all has been-

331
00:17:12,759 --> 00:17:13,749
the biggest problem.

332
00:17:13,819 --> 00:17:17,809
But yeah, I mean, certainly I'll
have AI draft things for me.

333
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:19,089
You have to read it.

334
00:17:19,249 --> 00:17:23,479
Lots of attorneys have gotten in trouble
for putting documents in front of a

335
00:17:23,479 --> 00:17:28,179
court, and then AI hallucinates like
a case that it cites to, and turns

336
00:17:28,179 --> 00:17:30,839
out judges don't really love that.

337
00:17:30,869 --> 00:17:31,049
Um-

338
00:17:31,079 --> 00:17:31,679
I bet.

339
00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:32,259
Yeah.

340
00:17:32,319 --> 00:17:33,529
It doesn't, doesn't make them happy.

341
00:17:33,749 --> 00:17:38,629
So you still have to have a human
to kinda guide the AI, but it's

342
00:17:38,629 --> 00:17:44,169
certainly, one, we can do things
faster, has been my observation, from

343
00:17:44,169 --> 00:17:46,439
drafting to reviewing for errors.

344
00:17:46,939 --> 00:17:51,729
Uh, and then two, you get a, I think,
generally a better product because you

345
00:17:51,729 --> 00:17:57,059
have a quick review process, uh, for a lot
of the documentation that you generate.

346
00:17:57,239 --> 00:18:00,259
There's some management things that
I haven't really delved deep into.

347
00:18:00,259 --> 00:18:05,199
I actually have a meeting tomorrow with
an AI expert that I'm gonna tell him

348
00:18:05,199 --> 00:18:08,609
to s- tell me what Claude can do for
my law firm and walk me through it.

349
00:18:08,609 --> 00:18:10,579
I wanna see how this works.

350
00:18:10,619 --> 00:18:14,419
And, uh, so I'll be exploring a
little bit deeper, but look, I mean,

351
00:18:14,419 --> 00:18:16,809
I think at this point, if you're
an attorney and you're not using

352
00:18:16,809 --> 00:18:18,239
AI, you're gonna get left behind.

353
00:18:18,369 --> 00:18:23,679
The people that are, uh, using it are
gonna be able to outmaneuver you, right?

354
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:27,559
Like the OODA loop that everybody
learns about, uh- Mm-hmm ... probably

355
00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:28,339
learned from Marines.

356
00:18:28,679 --> 00:18:31,919
You know, you're just gonna be able
to go through, uh, that OODA loop

357
00:18:31,969 --> 00:18:37,199
faster because you can draft faster,
you can review documents faster,

358
00:18:37,199 --> 00:18:39,789
you can organize discovery faster.

359
00:18:39,939 --> 00:18:43,279
It's, there's just so many
things that it can do.

360
00:18:43,789 --> 00:18:48,669
So like any other enterprise, I think
there will be a spot for humans to manage

361
00:18:48,669 --> 00:18:53,279
the AI, but- Mm-hmm ... uh, if you're not
using it, you're gonna get left behind.

362
00:18:53,759 --> 00:18:54,699
That's right.

363
00:18:54,739 --> 00:19:01,699
You know what, what, what we see is that,
um, leadership, relationships, and trust

364
00:19:02,419 --> 00:19:07,869
Are becoming more valuable than ever
because the model that we're operating

365
00:19:07,869 --> 00:19:11,659
off is you gotta have the competency, you
gotta have all those things, you gotta

366
00:19:11,659 --> 00:19:17,039
have that foundational stuff, but then
you've gotta be able to teach, coach,

367
00:19:17,299 --> 00:19:20,599
collaborate, and challenge your client.

368
00:19:21,229 --> 00:19:24,629
Because if we can't challenge our
client based on trust, the foundation

369
00:19:24,629 --> 00:19:30,239
of trust and competency, it doesn't
matter how good of an attorney you are or

370
00:19:30,239 --> 00:19:32,539
financial person, it just, eh, whatever.

371
00:19:33,039 --> 00:19:36,949
Because too often, you know, we'll,
we'll tell a client, "Hey, here's XYZ.

372
00:19:37,189 --> 00:19:38,569
Here's something you may wanna consider."

373
00:19:38,569 --> 00:19:40,429
"Yeah, yeah. Okay, great." No, no, no.

374
00:19:40,429 --> 00:19:44,409
You really need to consider this because
your burn rate is X and you've only got

375
00:19:44,409 --> 00:19:49,569
Y time left." And being able to have that
confidence and comfort to challenge them,

376
00:19:49,569 --> 00:19:51,259
I think is more important than ever.

377
00:19:52,059 --> 00:19:57,549
That's my insights is what we're
finding is, uh, uh, you know, being

378
00:19:57,549 --> 00:19:58,729
able to figure that out quickly.

379
00:19:59,079 --> 00:19:59,769
Yeah, I would agree.

380
00:19:59,769 --> 00:20:04,889
Interpersonal skills will become immensely
more important because the AI's gonna

381
00:20:04,889 --> 00:20:10,589
be able to do a lot of the low-level
tasks that used to be done by people.

382
00:20:10,959 --> 00:20:15,839
So if I don't need somebody grinding
away for 12 hours behind a laptop

383
00:20:16,479 --> 00:20:17,710
what am I gonna use them for?

384
00:20:18,140 --> 00:20:20,659
But how's this gonna change our
business models is the question, right?

385
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:22,310
Ha- ha- have

386
00:20:22,310 --> 00:20:23,110
we figured that out

387
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:23,350
yet?

388
00:20:23,350 --> 00:20:23,970
Billable hour.

389
00:20:23,970 --> 00:20:24,210
Billable hour.

390
00:20:24,730 --> 00:20:27,370
I'm not gonna say it's gone the
way of the dodo quite yet, um-

391
00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:28,450
Uh-huh

392
00:20:29,110 --> 00:20:33,900
...
but there are certainly people
who think that it will make the

393
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,160
billable hour less palatable.

394
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,539
It's tough 'cause I s- do
still spend time doing things.

395
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:45,020
It's just with AI, I can do them
faster, which allows me to do more

396
00:20:45,020 --> 00:20:48,470
things which can also be challenging
'cause then you have to switch

397
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:50,800
your brain from task to task.

398
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:52,340
But

399
00:20:55,930 --> 00:21:03,809
I think the billable hour will stay for a-
a while until the AI becomes just so good

400
00:21:03,809 --> 00:21:09,509
that it just makes sense to maybe pay like
a monthly bill or something, a flat rate,

401
00:21:09,930 --> 00:21:10,130
Yeah

402
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:12,180
...
because AI can handle so much.

403
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:16,199
I just, uh, it'll be a while, I
think, before it goes that way.

404
00:21:16,230 --> 00:21:19,270
And I know some firms, they
already have a flat rate for

405
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:20,660
like general counsel type work.

406
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,760
Um, so I'm not gonna say that's a function
of AI, that might just be their model.

407
00:21:26,389 --> 00:21:31,919
But, uh, I, I could see a world in
which the AI got so good that, uh,

408
00:21:31,919 --> 00:21:37,959
the billable hour was no longer
a useful way for attorneys to

409
00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:42,579
measure their financial benefit.

410
00:21:42,999 --> 00:21:43,299
Yep.

411
00:21:43,799 --> 00:21:44,139
Yep.

412
00:21:44,549 --> 00:21:46,179
It is interesting times.

413
00:21:46,179 --> 00:21:50,889
I think it was PwC that just came
out a couple weeks ago and said,

414
00:21:50,889 --> 00:21:52,579
"Hey, no more billable hours.

415
00:21:52,579 --> 00:21:57,409
We're only gonna bill on outcomes,
experience, and something else."

416
00:21:57,459 --> 00:22:00,189
And it's like, good for you.

417
00:22:00,189 --> 00:22:05,009
And, and, and I believe that's the way we
gotta go, but uh, for a major corporation

418
00:22:05,009 --> 00:22:07,829
to say, "This is what we're doing," I
think that takes leadership, you know?

419
00:22:07,829 --> 00:22:11,249
It takes a little, a little courage to
say, "We're, we're gonna rewrite the

420
00:22:11,249 --> 00:22:15,319
books now in how we're gonna do this and
engage our client and our team members."

421
00:22:15,349 --> 00:22:16,319
You know, how are they gonna get paid?

422
00:22:16,529 --> 00:22:18,479
And total rewrite.

423
00:22:18,609 --> 00:22:22,999
So pretty-- I think it's a pretty
brave, uh, thing on that CEO's part.

424
00:22:23,249 --> 00:22:23,399
Yeah.

425
00:22:23,399 --> 00:22:25,559
I mean, it certainly signals
the market too, right?

426
00:22:25,559 --> 00:22:27,440
Like, well, if PWC is doing it, then...

427
00:22:27,940 --> 00:22:29,429
Yeah, absolutely.

428
00:22:30,039 --> 00:22:32,679
So Michael, it's all rainbows
and sh- sunshine being your

429
00:22:32,679 --> 00:22:33,729
own practice owner, right?

430
00:22:33,729 --> 00:22:35,149
It's all simple, easy.

431
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:35,940
So good.

432
00:22:35,969 --> 00:22:36,229
Right?

433
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:36,940
So good.

434
00:22:37,999 --> 00:22:38,249
You know?

435
00:22:38,309 --> 00:22:38,719
Yeah.

436
00:22:38,719 --> 00:22:41,589
So you remember that little
vacation we were talking about?

437
00:22:42,149 --> 00:22:45,319
Settled a $4 million lawsuit
during that vacation.

438
00:22:45,789 --> 00:22:54,189
I, uh, yeah, worked through, um,
a purchase of a security interest.

439
00:22:54,809 --> 00:22:59,379
So vacations are a bit of a
misnomer at, at this point in time.

440
00:23:00,059 --> 00:23:02,119
It's, Mm-hmm ... obviously
there are a lot of challenges.

441
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:03,079
There are sleepless nights.

442
00:23:03,449 --> 00:23:05,059
Will this even work, right?

443
00:23:05,059 --> 00:23:08,069
Will I even be able to make
a business out of this?

444
00:23:08,189 --> 00:23:08,819
What am I doing?

445
00:23:08,819 --> 00:23:10,839
This is, this is crazy.

446
00:23:11,599 --> 00:23:18,029
I think everyone who starts a business has
that initially, unless you've done it like

447
00:23:18,029 --> 00:23:20,729
multiple times and it's not a problem.

448
00:23:20,969 --> 00:23:24,549
But, you know, certainly when
you're starting out it's hard.

449
00:23:24,549 --> 00:23:27,829
You have to figure out like who
your trusted vendors, suppliers

450
00:23:27,829 --> 00:23:31,979
are, who your trusted partners,
who your trusted referrals are.

451
00:23:31,979 --> 00:23:33,899
Developing that network takes time.

452
00:23:34,869 --> 00:23:35,139
Um,

453
00:23:37,229 --> 00:23:40,589
Rod seems to want to chime
in on that particular point.

454
00:23:40,699 --> 00:23:41,279
So- Just

455
00:23:41,279 --> 00:23:42,069
another question.

456
00:23:42,259 --> 00:23:42,699
Yeah.

457
00:23:42,729 --> 00:23:44,119
Th-that brings up another thought.

458
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:45,749
So yeah, it's, it's not.

459
00:23:45,789 --> 00:23:46,989
Honestly, it's a lot of hard work.

460
00:23:46,989 --> 00:23:52,049
I was... You know, my family's out of
town this week, and as I mentioned, I love

461
00:23:52,049 --> 00:23:56,709
my family dearly, but like when they're
gone, that means I can actually get all

462
00:23:56,709 --> 00:24:00,029
the stuff in my inbox somewhat done,

463
00:24:00,439 --> 00:24:01,009
Uh-huh

464
00:24:01,209 --> 00:24:04,809
that I couldn't normally because
I want to be home for dinner.

465
00:24:04,809 --> 00:24:08,069
I want to be there putting my
four-year-old to sleep at night,

466
00:24:08,669 --> 00:24:11,129
and then I want to be able to
spend time with my wife after that.

467
00:24:11,129 --> 00:24:15,054
So you know, certainly managing it
with a family is, is not the easiest.

468
00:24:15,254 --> 00:24:19,554
Probably easier to, uh, start a
startup if you're single, but, um,

469
00:24:20,144 --> 00:24:22,554
I'm not saying you can't do it when
you're married and have a family too.

470
00:24:23,124 --> 00:24:24,264
Yeah, absolutely.

471
00:24:24,374 --> 00:24:28,214
So networks, they're
kind of important, right?

472
00:24:28,604 --> 00:24:29,054
They are.

473
00:24:29,054 --> 00:24:30,604
I'm glad you asked.

474
00:24:30,604 --> 00:24:30,974
Uh-huh.

475
00:24:30,974 --> 00:24:32,064
Uh-huh.

476
00:24:32,784 --> 00:24:33,124
Yes.

477
00:24:33,124 --> 00:24:35,594
So tell, tell me about your,
your networking that you do

478
00:24:35,594 --> 00:24:37,544
to, to build your practice and-

479
00:24:37,574 --> 00:24:37,764
Yeah

480
00:24:37,994 --> 00:24:41,504
...
and give back and give back as
e- equally as much as what you do

481
00:24:41,504 --> 00:24:43,674
through your, through your outreach.

482
00:24:43,764 --> 00:24:45,834
How important has that been
to building your business?

483
00:24:46,354 --> 00:24:46,504
Yeah.

484
00:24:46,504 --> 00:24:47,154
And what are you doing?

485
00:24:47,594 --> 00:24:49,734
I mean, that's the only
reason I have clients, right?

486
00:24:49,734 --> 00:24:54,704
Is because I go to events, I
meet people like you, we talk,

487
00:24:54,824 --> 00:24:56,004
we learn about each other.

488
00:24:56,554 --> 00:25:01,024
That initial spark turns into a
relationship over time, somebody

489
00:25:01,024 --> 00:25:03,154
that you learn to trust over time.

490
00:25:03,154 --> 00:25:07,124
You can do business with
them, and so on and so forth.

491
00:25:07,544 --> 00:25:15,494
You know, a lot of my network is just
generated through going and meeting people

492
00:25:15,494 --> 00:25:17,864
in person and just learning about them.

493
00:25:17,994 --> 00:25:24,194
I, I find that to be the most effective
way to build a network is go somewhere.

494
00:25:24,754 --> 00:25:26,364
It's gonna be uncomfortable at first.

495
00:25:26,974 --> 00:25:27,694
It really is.

496
00:25:27,724 --> 00:25:31,204
You just show up and you have
to just start talking to people.

497
00:25:31,804 --> 00:25:36,595
But I found that if people find that
you're genuinely interested in what

498
00:25:36,595 --> 00:25:40,934
they're doing, uh, they'll open up to
you a bit, and that's just step one,

499
00:25:41,004 --> 00:25:43,914
and just rinse and repeat over and over.

500
00:25:43,914 --> 00:25:48,054
At some point, people start introducing
you to other people, uh, and that

501
00:25:48,444 --> 00:25:52,024
kind of has a snowball effect
which I'm sure that you've seen.

502
00:25:52,475 --> 00:25:54,744
And then I'm sure you want
me to talk about BizVets LA.

503
00:25:54,774 --> 00:25:55,835
Yes.

504
00:25:55,994 --> 00:25:57,534
Oh, that, that, yeah.

505
00:25:57,534 --> 00:25:58,314
Yeah, that's right.

506
00:25:58,314 --> 00:25:59,134
Tell me about that.

507
00:25:59,134 --> 00:25:59,334
Yeah.

508
00:25:59,364 --> 00:25:59,554
Okay.

509
00:25:59,644 --> 00:26:00,534
What's it called again?

510
00:26:01,194 --> 00:26:01,454
All right.

511
00:26:01,454 --> 00:26:06,214
So I started a nonprofit in Los
Angeles called BizVets LA for

512
00:26:06,214 --> 00:26:07,584
veterans here in Los Angeles.

513
00:26:07,584 --> 00:26:10,784
There's over 200,000 veterans
in Los Angeles, over 8,000

514
00:26:10,784 --> 00:26:12,454
veteran-owned businesses here.

515
00:26:13,354 --> 00:26:17,434
While I was going through law school
at UCLA, I was looking around and I was

516
00:26:17,434 --> 00:26:23,654
thinking to myself where are all the
veterans who want to, uh, live in LA

517
00:26:24,224 --> 00:26:30,574
in, an economically viable way?" Because
as we all know, LA is ridiculously

518
00:26:30,574 --> 00:26:34,114
expensive, so unless you have a good
amount of money, you're not getting

519
00:26:34,114 --> 00:26:37,424
a house with a lawn to raise your
kids and, you know, have a family in.

520
00:26:37,984 --> 00:26:43,874
Uh, after, you know, a few years in
the commercial sector, there was no

521
00:26:43,874 --> 00:26:48,975
organization that I found for veterans
who had gone into private equity or

522
00:26:49,165 --> 00:26:55,414
attorneys or, investment banking,
venture capital, all the, you know think

523
00:26:55,474 --> 00:27:01,524
or financial services, all the kind
of things that allow you to generate

524
00:27:01,524 --> 00:27:05,984
the type of income or acquire the
kind of assets that are, uh, required

525
00:27:05,984 --> 00:27:08,684
to feasibly live in Los Angeles.

526
00:27:09,274 --> 00:27:14,314
So- got a few of my LA veteran friends
together that I had met from just going

527
00:27:14,314 --> 00:27:15,874
to events, and we started BizVets LA.

528
00:27:15,874 --> 00:27:19,564
It's a nonprofit corporation,
501(3) registered.

529
00:27:20,394 --> 00:27:23,335
We started in 2024 with, uh, zero members.

530
00:27:23,335 --> 00:27:27,324
We started accepting members in
October of 2024, and we're up

531
00:27:27,324 --> 00:27:30,705
to, last I checked, 92 members.

532
00:27:30,705 --> 00:27:34,584
It's a paid membership just to make sure
that people are serious about being there.

533
00:27:35,135 --> 00:27:35,725
And we meet- That's

534
00:27:35,725 --> 00:27:36,034
great

535
00:27:36,455 --> 00:27:42,514
...
once a month just to do business
academics, to network, and, uh, generally

536
00:27:42,514 --> 00:27:46,135
just to hang out with other veterans in
the city who are trying to do big things.

537
00:27:46,594 --> 00:27:50,725
So almost 100 members in a year and
a half, less than a year and a half.

538
00:27:50,764 --> 00:27:51,584
Well, already a year and a half.

539
00:27:52,065 --> 00:27:52,284
Yeah.

540
00:27:53,014 --> 00:27:53,824
Congratulations.

541
00:27:53,824 --> 00:27:54,174
And it's what?

542
00:27:54,174 --> 00:27:56,364
Seven, $750 per member per year?

543
00:27:56,635 --> 00:27:57,844
Something like that.

544
00:27:57,844 --> 00:28:00,385
Uh, it's $550 per year or $55 per month.

545
00:28:01,075 --> 00:28:01,745
Got it.

546
00:28:01,745 --> 00:28:02,554
Fantastic.

547
00:28:03,044 --> 00:28:06,354
And, uh, I just think it's so cool
that you've, you've built that.

548
00:28:06,404 --> 00:28:07,534
I'm always asking you about it.

549
00:28:07,534 --> 00:28:08,174
Sorry about that.

550
00:28:08,174 --> 00:28:08,324
All good.

551
00:28:08,324 --> 00:28:09,614
I think it's just fantastic.

552
00:28:10,244 --> 00:28:11,964
So back, back to business.

553
00:28:12,054 --> 00:28:16,534
You know, you, you help a lot of
people secure their assets, protect

554
00:28:16,534 --> 00:28:17,714
their future, and all the rest.

555
00:28:18,584 --> 00:28:22,734
But for, for veteran business founders,
what are three things that, that you

556
00:28:22,734 --> 00:28:28,314
think are important for them from a legal
aspect to... And there's so many, right?

557
00:28:28,314 --> 00:28:32,394
But what are three things that you
think they should do to be legally

558
00:28:32,394 --> 00:28:35,424
ready to run their business, build
their business, grow their business?

559
00:28:35,764 --> 00:28:39,684
Uh, the biggest issues I've seen
from veterans who are starting

560
00:28:39,684 --> 00:28:43,414
companies is kind of cowboying it up
with the documents like contracts.

561
00:28:43,844 --> 00:28:46,625
"Yeah, this is, this is
generally good enough. Just say

562
00:28:46,625 --> 00:28:47,994
something about this in here."

563
00:28:50,544 --> 00:28:54,504
This language in this contract is
a result of hundreds of years of

564
00:28:54,504 --> 00:28:59,994
people looking at contracts, and
it's worded this way for a reason.

565
00:29:00,705 --> 00:29:02,425
This is the language, we should be using.

566
00:29:02,425 --> 00:29:02,914
Guilty.

567
00:29:03,235 --> 00:29:03,634
Yeah.

568
00:29:03,904 --> 00:29:06,044
I, I, I see it all the time.

569
00:29:06,755 --> 00:29:06,875
Um-

570
00:29:06,875 --> 00:29:07,535
Uh-huh.

571
00:29:08,024 --> 00:29:10,785
It works until it doesn't.

572
00:29:10,785 --> 00:29:11,104
Yep.

573
00:29:11,615 --> 00:29:11,925
You know?

574
00:29:11,925 --> 00:29:12,184
Yep.

575
00:29:12,274 --> 00:29:14,944
When things go south, it's problematic.

576
00:29:15,395 --> 00:29:22,235
Uh, I would say there are reasons, uh,
why attorneys want to look at documents.

577
00:29:22,625 --> 00:29:23,515
You can take the risk.

578
00:29:23,515 --> 00:29:28,385
Look, I mean, I'll, I tell clients
all the time, "Hey, you can do

579
00:29:28,385 --> 00:29:29,925
it without me looking at it.

580
00:29:30,165 --> 00:29:31,065
There will be risk.

581
00:29:31,265 --> 00:29:34,395
And if you're willing to accept
that risk, go forth and conquer."

582
00:29:35,035 --> 00:29:37,985
Because I have templates that,
again, have been looked at by judges,

583
00:29:37,985 --> 00:29:40,884
have been, worked on for 50 years.

584
00:29:41,650 --> 00:29:45,510
These templates, I know exactly how
they're gonna play out in court because

585
00:29:45,730 --> 00:29:48,840
there's 100 cases, uh, on this language.

586
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:53,070
With that in mind, I would say,
tread carefully on agreements.

587
00:29:53,230 --> 00:29:59,120
I have seen it where things go wrong
and the agreement that you thought was

588
00:29:59,180 --> 00:30:02,020
tight really comes back to bite you.

589
00:30:03,090 --> 00:30:03,630
All right.

590
00:30:03,870 --> 00:30:09,210
With that, if you are starting
a company, figure out how it's

591
00:30:09,210 --> 00:30:10,650
gonna work from the get-go.

592
00:30:11,180 --> 00:30:14,610
It's not something you wanna
be figuring out after you've

593
00:30:14,610 --> 00:30:15,620
already started the company.

594
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,090
Who's gonna get the equity?

595
00:30:17,830 --> 00:30:19,200
Who's gonna get the most equity?

596
00:30:19,370 --> 00:30:20,660
Who's gonna be CEO?

597
00:30:20,660 --> 00:30:21,700
Who's gonna be in charge?

598
00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:22,910
Is it gonna be a 50/50?

599
00:30:22,970 --> 00:30:26,500
Okay, well, if you're gonna do 50/50
how's the tiebreaker gonna look?

600
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:30,070
'Cause that could get very messy
if you guys ever have a dispute.

601
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:35,320
So figure out the structure of the
organization to the maximum extent

602
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,960
possible, uh, in the earliest possible
stages before you go to your attorney,

603
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,140
'cause otherwise your attorney's
just gonna be asking you, "Okay,

604
00:30:42,140 --> 00:30:43,440
how are we gonna split this equity?"

605
00:30:43,860 --> 00:30:44,470
"Well, I don't know.

606
00:30:44,470 --> 00:30:45,879
We need to have a conversation about that.

607
00:30:45,879 --> 00:30:48,519
We haven't really thought about it."
"Well, okay, when I issue shares, I need

608
00:30:48,519 --> 00:30:50,580
to issue a specific amount of shares.

609
00:30:50,989 --> 00:30:54,040
I can't just let's say, let's think
about it kind of thing on, on the

610
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:55,700
documents that I file in Delaware."

611
00:30:56,470 --> 00:30:56,820
Yep.

612
00:30:58,020 --> 00:30:59,690
Just kinda having thought
through some of that.

613
00:30:59,690 --> 00:31:04,230
And there are standard templates for a
lot of this stuff, but that I think is

614
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:06,100
a, a good thing for startup founders.

615
00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:07,630
And then

616
00:31:11,130 --> 00:31:14,690
understand that litigation
is very expensive.

617
00:31:15,710 --> 00:31:16,500
Oh, yeah.

618
00:31:18,610 --> 00:31:18,940
Oh, yeah.

619
00:31:18,940 --> 00:31:22,170
In many ways, emotionally,
ph- financially-

620
00:31:22,910 --> 00:31:23,190
Yeah

621
00:31:23,330 --> 00:31:24,170
...
every way.

622
00:31:24,430 --> 00:31:28,170
Organizationally, y- your, your whole
business, when you see somebody going

623
00:31:28,170 --> 00:31:30,940
through that, everything slows down.

624
00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:35,780
It just because, you know, X percentage
of your brain cycles and emotional cycles

625
00:31:35,780 --> 00:31:38,910
are now, you know, detoured over, so-

626
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:39,460
Yeah

627
00:31:39,460 --> 00:31:40,010
100%.

628
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,720
So if you're gonna get involved in
litigation, don't expect it to be cheap.

629
00:31:46,180 --> 00:31:50,870
Don't ask your attorney to be cheap
about it, 'cause you can do that, but

630
00:31:50,870 --> 00:31:53,290
you'll get a bad result most likely.

631
00:31:54,050 --> 00:31:59,680
And y- you know, just be
prepared for a very long process.

632
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,510
There won't always be updates because
the courts are not always fast, so

633
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,010
things can take a very long time.

634
00:32:09,180 --> 00:32:15,470
And to the extent possible, just get
information to your attorney when he or

635
00:32:15,470 --> 00:32:19,860
she requests it as, as fast as possible
so that you can meet court-appointed

636
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:23,020
de- uh, court Mandated deadlines

637
00:32:23,530 --> 00:32:23,790
Yep.

638
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,420
Have you ever seen a deal fall apart,
like somebody's gonna go sell their

639
00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:34,090
business and they got a great offer
on the table, and the deal gets-- dies

640
00:32:34,090 --> 00:32:39,870
because, because of things the founders
didn't take care of early on, or,

641
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:40,310
Oh, yeah.

642
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,420
This should be a softball
for you, I imag- I imagine.

643
00:32:44,420 --> 00:32:45,090
Yeah.

644
00:32:45,290 --> 00:32:50,030
The crazy thing about my practice is
I do corporate law, I do government

645
00:32:50,030 --> 00:32:54,890
contracting, and I litigate, which-
Phew ... yeah, is not necessarily

646
00:32:54,890 --> 00:32:58,490
a great life decision, but,
uh, it pays the bills for now.

647
00:32:58,950 --> 00:33:04,700
At some point I'll probably narrow it
down a little bit as I hire employees

648
00:33:05,210 --> 00:33:06,910
and do kind of what I'm best at.

649
00:33:07,340 --> 00:33:13,140
But that means I get to do some M&A work,
and that means I get to do due diligence.

650
00:33:13,210 --> 00:33:17,220
And yes, I have diligence companies-
Yep ... where I was like, "Dude, I don't

651
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:23,800
know. This, uh, this organization, these
corporate documents are very messy.

652
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,810
Unless you wanna spend a bunch of money
to clean them up on the sell side, you

653
00:33:28,810 --> 00:33:32,470
know, you're, you're kind of buying a
can of worms with a lot of liability."

654
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,530
You know, I don't wanna go into too many
specifics, obviously, because of privilege

655
00:33:36,530 --> 00:33:42,300
and confidentiality, but certainly not
keeping your documents organizationally

656
00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:45,790
clean can have long-term implications.

657
00:33:45,910 --> 00:33:51,790
What I tell clients is, "Pay now
or pay a lot more later." So you-

658
00:33:51,790 --> 00:33:52,220
That's right

659
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:53,420
...
you can either do-

660
00:33:53,450 --> 00:33:54,930
Yeah, we, we call it-- We're, we're-

661
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:55,890
Go ahead.

662
00:33:56,100 --> 00:33:56,560
It's all good.

663
00:33:57,250 --> 00:33:57,400
Yeah,

664
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:57,520
you go.

665
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,390
We're writing a book right now.

666
00:33:58,390 --> 00:33:59,610
In fact, it's, uh,

667
00:34:00,780 --> 00:34:01,310
it's right here.

668
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:05,050
And, uh, we've, we've got it, uh,
it's called "The Ready Founder."

669
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:05,460
Cool.

670
00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:08,940
And so we've been writing this
thing and, and I, I, I gotta keep

671
00:34:08,980 --> 00:34:12,650
editing 'cause I gotta meet with
somebody tomorrow, Natalie, on this.

672
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:15,260
And, um, but it's all about that.

673
00:34:15,260 --> 00:34:19,320
It's about being ready because if you're
if we can get the founders to be ready

674
00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:27,470
before they need it, it's things go
faster, better, more profitably, XYZ.

675
00:34:28,060 --> 00:34:31,310
You know, do you have your ready
room built out or, or as you

676
00:34:31,310 --> 00:34:32,360
guys call it, the data room?

677
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,840
You know, are, are you
X... Do you have XYZ done?

678
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,820
Because the deal can get done
faster, usually at a higher

679
00:34:38,820 --> 00:34:43,800
valuation and all that if you're
truly ready, talking about an M&A.

680
00:34:44,290 --> 00:34:47,400
Or, you know, "Hey, I, I need a
loan. I, I got a gov con contract.

681
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:49,370
I gotta g-," and like, I need XYZ.

682
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:49,890
Oh, wait a minute.

683
00:34:49,990 --> 00:34:53,760
I can't get it done because they don't
have their personal credit squared away

684
00:34:53,760 --> 00:35:00,380
yet." And I- if I can just help more
founders be ready for those opportunities

685
00:35:00,380 --> 00:35:04,480
and obstacles, I feel like it's a
good day, feel like it's a great day.

686
00:35:04,770 --> 00:35:10,535
And, uh, but it's oftentimes hard to
get the founder to think about If I take

687
00:35:10,535 --> 00:35:16,425
care of this now, it has an exponential
impact on my company, either good or bad.

688
00:35:16,585 --> 00:35:21,235
But if they take care of it now,
then they're ready is what I say.

689
00:35:21,515 --> 00:35:21,765
Yeah.

690
00:35:21,765 --> 00:35:21,955
So.

691
00:35:22,725 --> 00:35:23,935
Yeah, that's definitely true.

692
00:35:24,105 --> 00:35:27,745
Um, I think one of the things that's
tough about starting a business, like for

693
00:35:27,745 --> 00:35:32,845
me at least, is I do so much legal work
that it's hard to think strategically.

694
00:35:34,075 --> 00:35:37,285
All my strategic thinking was mostly
done when I started the business, right?

695
00:35:37,285 --> 00:35:42,755
Like strategy, aerospace and defense,
start a law firm, call it-- name it

696
00:35:42,755 --> 00:35:47,225
after the fighter jet that you flew,
and then, uh, people will show up.

697
00:35:47,345 --> 00:35:49,965
And, you know, that was
the strategic thinking.

698
00:35:50,005 --> 00:35:53,815
But for a lot of startup founders
who are just so bogged down in the

699
00:35:53,815 --> 00:35:57,825
day-to-day of running the business,
doing the legal work, that it's hard

700
00:35:57,825 --> 00:36:01,285
to organize all that information.

701
00:36:01,315 --> 00:36:04,905
Unless, one, you start from a place
of organization, which I've tried

702
00:36:04,905 --> 00:36:10,835
to do as much as possible, uh, or
two, you start hiring enough folks

703
00:36:10,885 --> 00:36:17,285
in order to be able to allocate,
brainwaves towards that kind of work.

704
00:36:18,645 --> 00:36:19,215
Absolutely.

705
00:36:19,525 --> 00:36:23,875
Michael, our time grows short, but,
you know, um, what's an insight or

706
00:36:23,875 --> 00:36:26,805
a question I should have asked you
about already that you're like, "Why

707
00:36:26,805 --> 00:36:28,165
hasn't Rod asked me about this?"

708
00:36:28,165 --> 00:36:30,755
Something that, that you should
share with the, with your community.

709
00:36:31,385 --> 00:36:31,975
What is that?

710
00:36:33,355 --> 00:36:33,735
All right.

711
00:36:33,735 --> 00:36:37,505
You should have asked me
why is BizVets LA working?

712
00:36:38,605 --> 00:36:39,755
Why is it working?

713
00:36:39,755 --> 00:36:41,325
You're right, I should
have asked you that.

714
00:36:42,565 --> 00:36:44,245
That is absolutely right.

715
00:36:44,475 --> 00:36:48,205
I think veterans inherently
want to do business with

716
00:36:48,205 --> 00:36:50,555
each other to a large extent.

717
00:36:50,725 --> 00:36:55,325
If I'm gonna make somebody rich,
I'd prefer it be another veteran.

718
00:36:55,425 --> 00:36:58,855
You know, if I'm gonna spend money on
someone, I'd prefer it be another veteran.

719
00:36:58,855 --> 00:36:59,375
One, I'm gonna--

720
00:37:01,735 --> 00:37:05,915
There's that initial layer of trust
that's already met, shared common

721
00:37:05,915 --> 00:37:07,695
background to a large extent.

722
00:37:08,155 --> 00:37:08,405
Yep

723
00:37:08,635 --> 00:37:12,215
...
you know that person's probably had a
security clearance, that they, uh, signed

724
00:37:12,215 --> 00:37:14,185
up for something bigger than themselves.

725
00:37:14,185 --> 00:37:18,975
So, I think we naturally tend to wanna
gravitate towards each other, which

726
00:37:18,975 --> 00:37:22,425
is why I see you at the conferences
with... And which is why we have

727
00:37:22,425 --> 00:37:24,695
these conferences in the first place.

728
00:37:25,055 --> 00:37:32,485
Yeah ... so I think when you get
out, leverage that network of people

729
00:37:32,915 --> 00:37:34,885
to the maximum extent possible.

730
00:37:35,435 --> 00:37:39,765
Hopefully, wherever you are locally,
there's already an established network.

731
00:37:40,335 --> 00:37:44,615
Um, if not, there is a
model to start that up.

732
00:37:45,275 --> 00:37:52,575
Uh, but I think that can be a
good jumping point for entering

733
00:37:52,575 --> 00:37:53,995
into the commercial sector.

734
00:37:54,385 --> 00:37:57,970
And, you know, look, I mean,
we get a lot of MBA students.

735
00:37:57,970 --> 00:38:02,330
We get a lot of JD students, uh,
in the group because they want to

736
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:08,220
be ready and have people that they
know and like, before they jump out

737
00:38:08,220 --> 00:38:09,880
into the cold, dark world out there.

738
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,570
Did you say they wanna be ready?

739
00:38:12,570 --> 00:38:13,350
Is that, is that right?

740
00:38:13,350 --> 00:38:14,340
Like a ready founder?

741
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:15,990
I

742
00:38:15,990 --> 00:38:16,490
did.

743
00:38:16,490 --> 00:38:16,660
That's

744
00:38:16,660 --> 00:38:16,950
funny.

745
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:17,980
So, yeah.

746
00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:22,700
So, s- so other than BizVets LA, what
are some other resources you would,

747
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:26,930
you, you would share that people should
look at or use or read or view or-

748
00:38:27,650 --> 00:38:27,880
Okay

749
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:28,860
...
consume one way or another?

750
00:38:29,340 --> 00:38:33,330
I'm a ambassador for the
IVMF, as you well know.

751
00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:36,320
So I would say they have
a lot of great programs.

752
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,660
Everything from the CEO Circle
to Veteran Edge Conference.

753
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:46,020
Uh, I think most people hopefully know
about them as veterans, but if not,

754
00:38:46,260 --> 00:38:47,600
I encourage you to check them out.

755
00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,500
And if you do already know
about them and you're starting a

756
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,100
business, it's worth looking at
specifically what programs they have.

757
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,740
Also, an ambassador for the
Veterans in Business Network.

758
00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,140
They have, uh, primarily a large
conference in November, but they also

759
00:39:02,180 --> 00:39:06,570
have other programs like at UCLA and,
uh, they, travel across the country.

760
00:39:07,310 --> 00:39:12,990
I think, uh, they can offer you a lot of
contracts with larger suppliers, whether

761
00:39:13,030 --> 00:39:19,970
those are state, uh, entities, county
entities, uh, or even corporations.

762
00:39:20,570 --> 00:39:20,660
Mm-hmm.

763
00:39:20,850 --> 00:39:22,990
That can be a great way to connect.

764
00:39:24,270 --> 00:39:26,610
I've also worked with NaVOBA.

765
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:30,610
B- I mean, Rod, the list of
veterans organizations nationally,

766
00:39:30,790 --> 00:39:34,090
NSVPC- Yep ... like it's just,
there's so many- Yeah ... of them.

767
00:39:34,110 --> 00:39:36,950
I think I've probably hit some
of the bigger ones, but, um-

768
00:39:36,990 --> 00:39:37,550
Yes, you have.

769
00:39:37,610 --> 00:39:37,710
Yep.

770
00:39:38,010 --> 00:39:40,970
Absolutely ... we could, we could talk
about this for a good another 30 minutes.

771
00:39:42,090 --> 00:39:42,890
Yep, you're right.

772
00:39:42,950 --> 00:39:43,390
You're right.

773
00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:47,340
So, hey, Michael, I wanna say thank you
so much for being on the show today.

774
00:39:47,780 --> 00:39:51,620
Um, in honor of your time, we're
gonna donate $100 to the Milcom

775
00:39:51,700 --> 00:39:55,660
Founders, uh, Scholarship Fund
that helps, uh, the kids of, uh,

776
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,120
military families attend university.

777
00:39:58,900 --> 00:40:00,679
So really do appreciate it very much.

778
00:40:00,940 --> 00:40:03,560
Thanks for joining us on
the Milcom Founders podcast.

779
00:40:04,240 --> 00:40:07,300
If you know a Milcom founder
with a story to share, reach

780
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,420
out to us at milcomfounders.com.

781
00:40:10,140 --> 00:40:14,420
For each guest on our show, One Degree
Financial donates $100 to the Dick

782
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,470
Loges Veteran Entrepreneur Scholarship
Fund, supporting education for

783
00:40:19,540 --> 00:40:21,060
children of a Milcom business owner.

784
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:22,380
Stay ready.