This Shocking Truth About Other People Will Change Your Life

WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.200 --> 00:00:03.140
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel
2
00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:10.529
Robbins Podcast. You know, lately, I'm just gonna admit it,
3
00:00:10.820 --> 00:00:15.429
I've been feeling more discouraged than normal. Maybe you have too.
4
00:00:16.309 --> 00:00:20.250
It's just that there's just so much polarization, so much negativity,
5
00:00:20.309 --> 00:00:22.649
whether you're looking at the headlines or online, it's so
6
00:00:23.010 --> 00:00:25.670
easy to get to a point where you're just exhausted.
7
00:00:26.769 --> 00:00:30.500
Haven't you wondered, how did we get here? Why is
8
00:00:30.579 --> 00:00:35.780
everybody so far apart? But despite all this noise, here
9
00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:40.880
is what I choose to believe. I believe that we
10
00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:44.640
want the same things for ourselves and our families. I
11
00:00:44.700 --> 00:00:48.520
believe that we define success in largely the same way.
12
00:00:48.579 --> 00:00:50.659
I mean, you want to be a good person. You
13
00:00:50.700 --> 00:00:53.929
want to feel like your authentic self. You want to
14
00:00:53.990 --> 00:00:56.390
do something with your life that makes a difference in
15
00:00:56.429 --> 00:00:59.109
the world. You want good relationships with your family and
16
00:00:59.130 --> 00:01:03.299
your friends. And yet somehow, this truth that unites us,
17
00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:07.599
it has been hijacked by headlines, politics, the lies on
18
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.760
social media, the busyness and pressure of trying to fit in,
19
00:01:11.780 --> 00:01:14.400
that it's easy to forget who you are and what
20
00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:16.480
truly matters to you. In fact, I think that's why
21
00:01:16.519 --> 00:01:19.640
you listen to this podcast, because every time you listen,
22
00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:23.170
you are reminded that you are capable of so much more,
23
00:01:23.189 --> 00:01:26.109
that you deserve more. You're reminded of what matters to
24
00:01:26.230 --> 00:01:29.879
you authentically. And that's why I cannot wait for our
25
00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:33.340
conversation today, because here in our Boston studios, we have
26
00:01:33.379 --> 00:01:36.900
an expert researcher with a PhD from Harvard who's been
27
00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.569
crunching the single biggest data set on what people truly
28
00:01:41.730 --> 00:01:45.329
want in life, how they define success, what matters to them.
29
00:01:45.769 --> 00:01:48.370
These are the kinds of things that people admit when
30
00:01:48.390 --> 00:01:51.950
they're telling the truth in private, not the garbage they
31
00:01:51.969 --> 00:01:52.890
post about online.
32
00:01:53.730 --> 00:01:54.129
Dr.
33
00:01:54.189 --> 00:01:56.109
Todd Rose is here to tell you and me there
34
00:01:56.150 --> 00:01:59.489
is a gigantic lie that you have been told about
35
00:01:59.510 --> 00:02:01.469
other people and the world at large, and he is
36
00:02:01.530 --> 00:02:04.269
here to teach you the truth. The truth is you
37
00:02:04.310 --> 00:02:07.150
have the power to change your life. You can make
38
00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:12.219
a difference in the world because your brain rewards authenticity. Authenticity,
39
00:02:12.419 --> 00:02:15.979
you being you. That is the secret to a better
40
00:02:16.020 --> 00:02:18.180
life and a better world. You and I are going
41
00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:21.319
to learn from the scientist and researcher who has crunched
42
00:02:21.500 --> 00:02:25.009
all the data on how to live a more authentic life.
43
00:02:25.889 --> 00:02:28.889
And today, that's what we're talking about. How you find
44
00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:32.030
the courage to be yourself, the confidence to trust your
45
00:02:32.060 --> 00:02:36.219
own voice, and our collective power to make the world
46
00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:39.840
a better place by being a better version of ourselves.
47
00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:49.219
The Chemist Warehouse Fall Frenzy Mega Sale is now live.
48
00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:51.800
Find up to half price off RRP on big brands
49
00:02:52.000 --> 00:02:55.759
like Bio Oil, Lusotanning and SVR. Plus John Frieda, Batiste
50
00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:58.449
and Aussie Hair Care. And find great offers on big
51
00:02:58.490 --> 00:03:02.669
brand vitamins. But hurry, sale must end September 20. Chemist Warehouse,
52
00:03:02.729 --> 00:03:04.210
great savings every day.
53
00:03:06.120 --> 00:03:09.659
Discover Centra Simple Savers, your go-to for great everyday value.
54
00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:14.060
Like Easy Meal Selected Range 1.2kg, like Chicken Curry, € 7 each.
55
00:03:14.469 --> 00:03:18.310
Selected Oreo Biscuits, € 1. 75 each. And Heineken 12 Bottle Pack,
56
00:03:18.409 --> 00:03:22.069
only € 15. Enjoy simple prices on all your favourites.
57
00:03:22.449 --> 00:03:22.969
Centra.
58
00:03:23.210 --> 00:03:24.330
Live every day.
59
00:03:24.569 --> 00:03:25.710
Enjoy alcohol sensibly.
60
00:03:32.210 --> 00:03:35.069
Hey, it's your friend Mel, and welcome to the Mel
61
00:03:35.110 --> 00:03:38.909
Robbins Podcast. I'm so fired up that you're here. I
62
00:03:38.990 --> 00:03:42.469
am so excited for today's conversation. It is always an
63
00:03:42.509 --> 00:03:44.490
honor to be together. It is always an honor to
64
00:03:44.509 --> 00:03:48.319
spend time with you, but today it is particularly important.
65
00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.159
And if you're a new listener or you're here because
66
00:03:51.300 --> 00:03:54.719
someone shared this conversation with you, I just wanted to
67
00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:56.539
take a moment and personally welcome you to the Mel
68
00:03:56.580 --> 00:04:01.780
Robbins Podcast family and Today's conversation about authenticity and the
69
00:04:01.870 --> 00:04:04.610
lies that you've been told is going to be life-changing.
70
00:04:05.210 --> 00:04:05.610
Dr.
71
00:04:05.669 --> 00:04:08.650
Todd Rose is here to teach you how to reconnect
72
00:04:08.689 --> 00:04:11.169
with your true self so you can live the life
73
00:04:11.189 --> 00:04:14.330
you deserve. He is the co-founder and CEO of the
74
00:04:14.370 --> 00:04:17.470
Think Tank Populous, which has a mission to use data
75
00:04:17.689 --> 00:04:20.709
to ensure that all people have the opportunity to pursue
76
00:04:20.790 --> 00:04:24.290
fulfilling lives. He was also a professor at Harvard University's
77
00:04:24.350 --> 00:04:27.509
Graduate School of Education. Harvard is also where he earned
78
00:04:27.550 --> 00:04:31.680
his PhD in developmental science. While he was at Harvard, Dr.
79
00:04:31.740 --> 00:04:34.980
Rose led both the Mind, Brain, and Education program and
80
00:04:35.019 --> 00:04:38.839
also founded their Laboratory for the Science of Individuality. He's
81
00:04:38.860 --> 00:04:41.519
written a number of bestselling books, including his most recent,
82
00:04:41.879 --> 00:04:45.300
Collective Illusions, which reveals the biggest lies that you and
83
00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:48.019
I have been told about ourselves and what other people believe.
84
00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:51.500
So please help me welcome Dr. Todd Rose to the
85
00:04:51.540 --> 00:04:52.500
Mel Robbins Podcast.
86
00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:53.160
Thanks for having me.
87
00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:54.660
I am so excited to talk to you.
88
00:04:54.939 --> 00:04:55.240
Me too.
89
00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:58.759
I'm really excited for so many reasons, and here's where
90
00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:00.980
I want to start. How is my life going to
91
00:05:01.000 --> 00:05:01.379
be different?
92
00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:04.310
If you understand and internalize the ideas we're going to
93
00:05:04.319 --> 00:05:06.930
talk about today, you're going to be more confident, you're
94
00:05:06.939 --> 00:05:09.509
going to live more authentically, which is going to lead
95
00:05:09.550 --> 00:05:14.470
to greater life satisfaction, happiness, but more importantly, your relationships
96
00:05:14.490 --> 00:05:16.850
are going to be better, and you're going to have
97
00:05:16.889 --> 00:05:18.670
a deeper sense of belonging to the groups that matter
98
00:05:18.689 --> 00:05:19.069
most to you.
99
00:05:19.699 --> 00:05:22.259
That's a big promise. I'm really excited for that. I
100
00:05:22.350 --> 00:05:25.610
actually believe you. No, I do believe you. I believe you.
101
00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:29.110
And what I'm excited about is I have this sense
102
00:05:30.050 --> 00:05:32.449
that we live in a world where we all feel
103
00:05:32.509 --> 00:05:36.870
so divided from one another. And yet I hold firmly
104
00:05:36.930 --> 00:05:40.420
to this belief that the vast majority of us are
105
00:05:40.480 --> 00:05:42.639
way more similar and believe way more of the same
106
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.160
things and want a lot of the same things than
107
00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:47.560
we actually are led to believe in the world right now.
108
00:05:47.680 --> 00:05:50.540
And you're 100% correct. You know, what we do at
109
00:05:50.579 --> 00:05:53.639
My Think Tank Populous, we do what's called private opinion research.
110
00:05:53.980 --> 00:05:57.300
What is private opinion research? So polling, it's all public
111
00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:00.480
and it has all the social pressure. You know there's
112
00:06:00.519 --> 00:06:04.060
a right answer. And so it turns out everybody's misrepresenting
113
00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:04.759
their views right now.
114
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:08.079
You feel like there's this big cost if you just
115
00:06:08.139 --> 00:06:10.879
don't go with the flow or you just don't agree
116
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.139
or you just don't do what you think everybody else
117
00:06:13.199 --> 00:06:15.199
wants you to do, whether it's your family or or
118
00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.699
at work, or with your friend group. And so you
119
00:06:17.790 --> 00:06:21.449
write a lot in your bestselling book, Collective Illusions, about
120
00:06:21.470 --> 00:06:25.490
the fact that we are fundamentally wired to conform. What
121
00:06:25.509 --> 00:06:26.629
does that mean, Todd?
122
00:06:26.769 --> 00:06:29.220
Yeah, this is really important to me because when we
123
00:06:29.259 --> 00:06:33.370
talk about conformity, it kind of has like a negative connotation, right?
124
00:06:33.509 --> 00:06:33.730
Yes.
125
00:06:33.769 --> 00:06:36.250
Like nobody wants to admit they conform to something.
126
00:06:36.370 --> 00:06:36.589
Yes.
127
00:06:36.850 --> 00:06:40.589
But here's what's important. We are hardwired to belong to groups.
128
00:06:40.850 --> 00:06:41.149
Okay.
129
00:06:41.389 --> 00:06:45.449
Evolutionarily, this is how we survive. And that belonging can
130
00:06:45.490 --> 00:06:47.089
lead to conformity when we feel like we have to
131
00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:49.750
distort who we are to get that belonging. And if
132
00:06:49.769 --> 00:06:51.170
you don't mind, let me give you an example.
133
00:06:51.230 --> 00:06:51.430
Please.
134
00:06:51.649 --> 00:06:52.750
I'm going to tell you about what I think is
135
00:06:52.769 --> 00:06:55.100
my favorite study ever because I can't believe he got
136
00:06:55.389 --> 00:06:56.110
funded to do it.
137
00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:56.540
Okay.
138
00:06:56.699 --> 00:06:58.850
A colleague of mine in the Netherlands back in 2009-
139
00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:02.399
was a little skeptical about this conformity, like how deep
140
00:07:02.459 --> 00:07:04.980
it really went. And so he said, what's the most
141
00:07:05.100 --> 00:07:08.939
subjective thing I could possibly imagine and see if conformity
142
00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.439
exists there? So he decided it was who you think
143
00:07:11.500 --> 00:07:14.060
is good looking. Because look, beauty's in the eye of
144
00:07:14.110 --> 00:07:16.769
the beholder, right? So, and there's no social pressure to
145
00:07:16.790 --> 00:07:18.750
be like, you should think they're attractive because I do.
146
00:07:18.970 --> 00:07:19.170
Yeah.
147
00:07:19.769 --> 00:07:23.129
So he does this clever study. He puts people in
148
00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:26.310
fMRI scanners and he does a version of hot or not.
149
00:07:26.649 --> 00:07:26.970
Okay.
150
00:07:27.230 --> 00:07:29.290
Really, like, this is why I can't believe he got funded.
151
00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:32.839
He gets people, he shows them a couple hundred faces,
152
00:07:33.319 --> 00:07:35.360
and he asks them to rate them on their attractiveness
153
00:07:35.379 --> 00:07:38.959
from one to five. One, no thank you. Five being yes, please, right? Which,
154
00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:41.139
by the way, you do that kind of stuff on
155
00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:42.060
the street, you're a creep.
156
00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:42.639
Yes.
157
00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.079
You do it in a scanner, you're a scientist. But
158
00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:48.310
here's what's wild. So you're in that scanner, and you
159
00:07:48.350 --> 00:07:49.910
see a face, and you say, well, I think that's
160
00:07:49.930 --> 00:07:54.290
a five. Pretty attractive. What happens next is instantly you
161
00:07:54.350 --> 00:07:57.990
are shown another number. which is supposed to represent the
162
00:07:58.209 --> 00:08:00.930
average score of everyone who's done this task before you.
163
00:08:01.009 --> 00:08:04.480
Okay, so if I just ranked somebody a five, and
164
00:08:04.500 --> 00:08:06.379
then all of a sudden I'm shown, well, everybody else
165
00:08:06.420 --> 00:08:07.160
said they were three.
166
00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:09.740
Yes, exactly, right? And then we're going to watch what
167
00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.579
happens in your brain. And here's the thing. That group
168
00:08:13.620 --> 00:08:16.300
number was completely made up. There was no other group. Okay.
169
00:08:16.339 --> 00:08:19.759
It's just you. And it was engineered so that half
170
00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.370
the time, you're told that you and your group are lockstep.
171
00:08:23.629 --> 00:08:27.470
You said five, the group said five, right? And on
172
00:08:27.550 --> 00:08:30.949
some of the trials, it makes it wildly different. You
173
00:08:30.980 --> 00:08:34.980
said five, the group said one. Here's what's crazy. On
174
00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:38.580
the trials where you and your group are aligned, it
175
00:08:38.639 --> 00:08:41.340
triggers what we call a reward signal in your brain.
176
00:08:42.259 --> 00:08:45.700
It's the same areas that hard drugs activate. And it's
177
00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:48.149
meant to tell you, whatever you're doing, keep doing it.
178
00:08:48.179 --> 00:08:51.379
This is amazing, right? On the trials where you were
179
00:08:51.409 --> 00:08:54.600
like five and they said one, it triggers what's called
180
00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:57.759
an error signal in your brain. It's this cascading electrical
181
00:08:57.820 --> 00:09:02.480
signal that disrupts memory, attention, everything. It's meant to get
182
00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:05.500
you to stop because something you're doing is wrong and
183
00:09:05.539 --> 00:09:07.340
you might be in danger. So this is what happens
184
00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:08.899
to your brain, but that's not even the most interesting thing.
185
00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:12.090
The clever part was then at the end of the study,
186
00:09:12.610 --> 00:09:14.929
you're in the task, they come and say, oh, I'm
187
00:09:15.090 --> 00:09:18.639
so sorry, uh, For some reason, the equipment didn't record
188
00:09:18.659 --> 00:09:22.230
your responses. Would you mind just quickly doing the task again?
189
00:09:22.250 --> 00:09:24.070
We're not going to record your brain. Just quickly do
190
00:09:24.090 --> 00:09:28.250
the task again. They randomized the couple hundred pictures. They
191
00:09:28.470 --> 00:09:32.909
iterate them again. Lo and behold, most people moved their
192
00:09:32.990 --> 00:09:35.730
scores to align with the group and they didn't even
193
00:09:35.769 --> 00:09:36.269
know they did it.
194
00:09:36.850 --> 00:09:37.129
Wow.
195
00:09:37.149 --> 00:09:39.350
You interview them after, they're like, no, that didn't affect
196
00:09:39.389 --> 00:09:42.379
me at all. So when I say it's hardwired, that's
197
00:09:42.389 --> 00:09:45.460
what I mean. Even as something as subjective as attractiveness,
198
00:09:46.110 --> 00:09:48.289
We just want to be with our groups. And there's
199
00:09:48.330 --> 00:09:51.029
a lot that we'll do to maintain that group alignment.
200
00:09:51.129 --> 00:09:54.870
I think it's fascinating that there is an error signal
201
00:09:54.990 --> 00:09:58.870
in your brain that when you recognize that you're not
202
00:09:58.950 --> 00:10:03.159
conforming with group think or group look or group opinion,
203
00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:07.110
that automatically signals that you're on the outside and you
204
00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:08.669
need to stop. And I want to give you another
205
00:10:08.690 --> 00:10:10.809
example to see if I'm tracking with this, because this
206
00:10:10.830 --> 00:10:12.529
just happened to me the other night. Like a lot
207
00:10:12.570 --> 00:10:16.590
of people, I am starting to really care more about
208
00:10:16.629 --> 00:10:19.090
my health And one of the things I am cutting
209
00:10:19.190 --> 00:10:20.970
way back on is alcohol. And so I have this
210
00:10:21.009 --> 00:10:22.820
rule with myself that I'm just not going to drink
211
00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:28.039
during the week. Now, fast forward to last night. I'm
212
00:10:28.279 --> 00:10:31.259
out at a restaurant after work and one of my
213
00:10:31.299 --> 00:10:34.019
colleagues turns to me and says, I think I'm out
214
00:10:34.059 --> 00:10:37.070
of a glass of wine. You want a glass of wine? Okay.
215
00:10:38.370 --> 00:10:42.590
Can you explain using the research what just happened? Because
216
00:10:42.649 --> 00:10:44.570
here's the thing. I know I was going to go
217
00:10:44.649 --> 00:10:47.379
in there and order a Diet Coke or a club
218
00:10:47.419 --> 00:10:50.860
soda or whatever, the second somebody asks me, hey, you
219
00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:55.309
want to have something? It's like I make a decision. Reflexive.
220
00:10:55.330 --> 00:10:57.240
Didn't even contemplate it. You just went with it.
221
00:10:57.389 --> 00:10:59.549
Well, you know, Todd, you wrote the book on this.
222
00:10:59.610 --> 00:11:02.309
So I think that's an example of why this is
223
00:11:02.330 --> 00:11:06.269
a really important thing to understand. that is happening in
224
00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:09.210
your physiology and your neurology and biology. So what's happening?
225
00:11:09.230 --> 00:11:11.789
It's coming back to that need to belong that we
226
00:11:11.809 --> 00:11:14.649
just talked about and the possibility of conformity there. Because
227
00:11:14.669 --> 00:11:17.789
the norm in our society is when you go out socially,
228
00:11:17.830 --> 00:11:21.289
you drink. And people that don't drink aren't fun. That's
229
00:11:21.309 --> 00:11:23.230
the stereotype. At the same time, you don't want to
230
00:11:23.269 --> 00:11:23.929
go against the grain.
231
00:11:24.169 --> 00:11:24.389
Yes.
232
00:11:24.590 --> 00:11:25.129
Right?
233
00:11:25.149 --> 00:11:27.509
But do you know what's interesting? If I had said
234
00:11:27.529 --> 00:11:29.870
to my colleague... you know, I'm just not drinking during
235
00:11:29.889 --> 00:11:31.009
the week right now. I don't think I'm having, you
236
00:11:31.029 --> 00:11:32.600
know what they probably would have said? I don't think
237
00:11:32.620 --> 00:11:33.379
I'm having anything either.
238
00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.460
And that's the thing is, because you don't have the
239
00:11:35.539 --> 00:11:38.960
simple tips and tricks that you can use to not
240
00:11:39.019 --> 00:11:40.620
put yourself in that, well, I don't want to come
241
00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:42.500
off as something I don't think I am. I think
242
00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:44.929
I'm fun. I think I'm social. I like to hang
243
00:11:44.970 --> 00:11:49.210
out with people. So something like, you know what? I
244
00:11:49.230 --> 00:11:51.590
decided to take a month off. Or, you know what,
245
00:11:51.669 --> 00:11:54.259
I decided I'm not drinking on weekdays because then it
246
00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:57.039
doesn't say I'm not someone who drinks, right? It's just,
247
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:01.639
I've made that choice. And you'd be shocked how many people,
248
00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.039
like the person said, hey, I'm having a drink. We're
249
00:12:04.299 --> 00:12:06.490
at a table with a bunch of people and we're like, okay, fine.
250
00:12:06.710 --> 00:12:09.330
And then everyone sees two people do it. And you're like, okay,
251
00:12:09.350 --> 00:12:11.429
there's a lot of pressure building as they come to you.
252
00:12:11.450 --> 00:12:14.669
And what will you have, sir? Like, I'll have what
253
00:12:14.710 --> 00:12:17.950
they're having, you know, is just the ability to say
254
00:12:18.029 --> 00:12:20.909
something like, you know what? I've decided to take a
255
00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:23.250
month off or whatever. And no one's going to say
256
00:12:23.590 --> 00:12:24.389
something's wrong with you.
257
00:12:24.629 --> 00:12:24.809
No.
258
00:12:24.970 --> 00:12:26.570
But what you'll do is you'll give them permission to
259
00:12:26.610 --> 00:12:30.149
do the same thing. And try it out. It's amazing.
260
00:12:30.590 --> 00:12:33.409
And once you realize how many people end up copying you,
261
00:12:33.870 --> 00:12:36.720
you'll see just how profoundly we're affected by what we
262
00:12:36.750 --> 00:12:38.960
believe other people believe and expect of us.
263
00:12:40.100 --> 00:12:44.460
What is happening in that moment where you say, okay,
264
00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:46.820
I'll have what they're having? Like what's happening in your brain?
265
00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:50.139
So remember we talked about that reward response? Yep. So
266
00:12:50.299 --> 00:12:53.590
your brain has what's called an anticipated reward response. We
267
00:12:53.649 --> 00:12:55.769
know that when we're aligned with our group, it feels
268
00:12:55.970 --> 00:12:59.230
really good and we want that. It's not quite like
269
00:12:59.269 --> 00:13:02.250
drug addiction, but it's in that ballpark where once you're
270
00:13:02.269 --> 00:13:05.009
addicted to that drug, you're chasing the drug. Everything is about,
271
00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:06.320
I want that feeling again.
272
00:13:06.340 --> 00:13:10.720
Of belonging. And we're talking about a deeper sense that's
273
00:13:10.779 --> 00:13:11.519
wired in you.
274
00:13:11.679 --> 00:13:14.120
It's so deep and it's really important. And again, I
275
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.759
want to say, there's nothing wrong with wanting to belong.
276
00:13:16.779 --> 00:13:19.289
You should want to belong. And you just have to
277
00:13:19.389 --> 00:13:23.549
understand when that need to belong tips into being controlled
278
00:13:23.570 --> 00:13:27.409
or manipulated or, bottom line, just leads you to do
279
00:13:27.490 --> 00:13:30.610
things that go against your own judgment. That's when you
280
00:13:30.629 --> 00:13:32.049
start making really bad decisions.
281
00:13:32.789 --> 00:13:35.269
I'm really excited because I feel like this is one
282
00:13:35.309 --> 00:13:39.169
of those hidden levers that we don't realize is just
283
00:13:39.309 --> 00:13:44.059
operating in the background. And when you understand... what you're
284
00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:46.460
dealing with, you have so much more power of it.
285
00:13:46.490 --> 00:13:48.629
That's right. By the way, Mel, after I was booked
286
00:13:48.669 --> 00:13:50.309
to be on the show, I actually dug in and
287
00:13:50.590 --> 00:13:52.549
read your book, Let Them, and I got to tell you,
288
00:13:52.570 --> 00:13:55.210
there are so many parallels. When we get into all
289
00:13:55.250 --> 00:13:57.879
the tools later on, we'll be able to dig into
290
00:13:57.889 --> 00:14:00.279
a little bit more because there's just so much overlap.
291
00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:01.299
I'm excited to dig in.
292
00:14:01.750 --> 00:14:04.090
That's a huge compliment. We'll get into the tools later,
293
00:14:04.149 --> 00:14:06.070
but there's so much more about your research that I
294
00:14:06.090 --> 00:14:09.309
want to make sure that we fully get to and understand.
295
00:14:09.629 --> 00:14:11.169
One of the terms I'd love to have you talk
296
00:14:11.210 --> 00:14:14.480
a little bit about is this term collective illusions. It's
297
00:14:14.509 --> 00:14:17.940
the title of your bestselling book. Can you define in
298
00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:20.679
very plain terms, what is a collective illusion?
299
00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.659
Collective illusion is groupthink, but you're wrong about the group.
300
00:14:25.279 --> 00:14:27.559
So let me unpack that just a little bit. It
301
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:31.049
formally is a phenomenon where most people in a group
302
00:14:31.779 --> 00:14:35.149
go along with something they don't privately agree with simply
303
00:14:35.190 --> 00:14:39.029
because they incorrectly think that most other people agree with it.
304
00:14:39.490 --> 00:14:40.509
Okay, give me an example.
305
00:14:40.570 --> 00:14:43.850
So one of the most sticky collective illusions of all
306
00:14:43.889 --> 00:14:46.669
that's been around for multiple decades that we've tracked is
307
00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:48.169
this binge drinking in college.
308
00:14:48.190 --> 00:14:48.730
Okay.
309
00:14:48.909 --> 00:14:51.700
So kids leave home, they go to a new place.
310
00:14:52.340 --> 00:14:54.120
They're like, what does it mean to be a college
311
00:14:54.139 --> 00:14:57.500
student here? Yep. And they all think that most kids
312
00:14:57.580 --> 00:15:00.330
binge drink. And so they go to a party and
313
00:15:00.370 --> 00:15:02.649
they end up binge drinking when in reality, in private,
314
00:15:02.750 --> 00:15:04.990
we know as a matter of fact, most college kids
315
00:15:05.029 --> 00:15:08.100
are deeply skeptical about binge drinking. They know it's bad,
316
00:15:08.820 --> 00:15:10.500
but it's what they feel like they need to do
317
00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:13.600
to belong, to be a part, to be a college student.
318
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:14.360
Wow.
319
00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.299
And it turns out was what we can talk about later.
320
00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:19.480
No amount of trying to tell them how bad drinking
321
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:22.779
is works. In fact, it propagates the illusion.
322
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.659
Oh, that it's a problem and that everybody's doing it.
323
00:15:25.700 --> 00:15:28.970
Yeah. Why would all the administration put all these posters
324
00:15:29.070 --> 00:15:30.799
up telling us about the dangers of binge drinking if
325
00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:33.730
people weren't binge drinking? And so it ends up fueling
326
00:15:33.750 --> 00:15:36.549
the illusion. And so what you need is to have
327
00:15:36.690 --> 00:15:40.169
social proof where you have popular kids, other people just
328
00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:42.309
being like, I don't binge drink. Why would I binge drink?
329
00:15:42.929 --> 00:15:47.909
You can't lecture or try to But this happens all
330
00:15:47.950 --> 00:15:51.009
the time. What's crazy is the phenomenon of collective illusions
331
00:15:51.029 --> 00:15:55.580
we've known about for about 100 years in research. It
332
00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:59.059
goes back further, obviously, because The Emperor's New Clothes is
333
00:15:59.159 --> 00:16:00.059
about collective illusions.
334
00:16:00.659 --> 00:16:02.440
Unpack that for the person that doesn't know what The
335
00:16:02.779 --> 00:16:03.600
Emperor's New Clothes is.
336
00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:06.500
It's the story of the parable of like, the emperor
337
00:16:06.539 --> 00:16:09.980
gets convinced by some huckster that they can spin the
338
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:14.139
most beautiful clothing ever made. And it's so fine that
339
00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:17.340
it's invisible to everyone except for people who are worthy
340
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:21.159
of their station in life. And the emperor's like, obviously
341
00:16:21.250 --> 00:16:23.649
I'm worthy of it. So they make up this, they
342
00:16:23.909 --> 00:16:26.070
fake like they're putting it on him. And he's like, well,
343
00:16:26.090 --> 00:16:27.409
obviously I can see it because if I say I
344
00:16:27.450 --> 00:16:29.110
can't see it, then I must not be worthy of
345
00:16:29.169 --> 00:16:31.129
being in charge of everything.
346
00:16:31.149 --> 00:16:31.850
Yes, yes.
347
00:16:32.429 --> 00:16:36.009
And then everybody around him wants power and wants to
348
00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:37.389
be close to it, so they don't want to say,
349
00:16:37.730 --> 00:16:41.769
you're buck naked, right? And then the king's prancing around,
350
00:16:41.850 --> 00:16:42.809
going outside.
351
00:16:42.830 --> 00:16:43.049
Naked.
352
00:16:43.169 --> 00:16:45.429
All the crowds line up. They're cheering because no one
353
00:16:45.450 --> 00:16:47.750
wants to say it. And then one little kid is like,
354
00:16:48.690 --> 00:16:52.340
why are you naked? The innocence of the child to
355
00:16:52.360 --> 00:16:55.179
be just asked the obvious question, and then the illusion shatters.
356
00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:58.820
So obviously, this has been a problem in humanity for
357
00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:02.779
a very long time. What's interesting is, up until just
358
00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:06.970
recently— The number of illusions, collective illusions that have harmed
359
00:17:07.009 --> 00:17:09.009
us as a society were pretty small.
360
00:17:09.250 --> 00:17:09.470
Yes.
361
00:17:09.930 --> 00:17:12.079
But you put it into the social media age.
362
00:17:12.339 --> 00:17:12.559
Yes.
363
00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:16.200
And it's just exploded to the point where, now, name
364
00:17:16.299 --> 00:17:20.019
anything that matters in life, it's a coin toss whether
365
00:17:20.039 --> 00:17:22.579
or not you're just wrong about what your community believes now.
366
00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:25.119
Well, I also think like the experience we all have
367
00:17:25.160 --> 00:17:29.410
when you go online, and it looks like every single person,
368
00:17:29.490 --> 00:17:32.650
I mean, I'm a 57-year-old woman, so it's largely menopause
369
00:17:32.670 --> 00:17:36.809
and interior design. and health products. Like every single person
370
00:17:36.869 --> 00:17:39.269
is taking the exact same brand of supplement. Every single
371
00:17:39.309 --> 00:17:42.960
person is wearing this exact makeup line. Every single person
372
00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:46.200
is buying this particular couch. And I feel like, oh
373
00:17:46.220 --> 00:17:48.279
my God, I'm missing out. Like everybody has that thing.
374
00:17:48.299 --> 00:17:48.500
Yep.
375
00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:51.509
And, It does feel like it's gotten worse. And then
376
00:17:51.549 --> 00:17:54.309
my daughter was talking today about, well, I'm getting targeted
377
00:17:54.329 --> 00:17:56.519
for a cellulite foam roller that I'm about to buy
378
00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.200
because it looks like everybody that I follow online is
379
00:17:59.299 --> 00:18:02.539
using it. And so what are some of the collective
380
00:18:02.579 --> 00:18:07.619
illusions that you can point to in day-to-day life that
381
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:09.480
we may not be aware that that's what that is?
382
00:18:09.539 --> 00:18:11.980
Well, let's hit on those. But when we think about
383
00:18:12.569 --> 00:18:14.190
how is it that we can end up being so
384
00:18:14.390 --> 00:18:17.789
wrong about the groups that matter so much to us? Like,
385
00:18:17.829 --> 00:18:20.029
it's kind of weird that that would be true, right? Yes.
386
00:18:20.250 --> 00:18:22.609
Let me show you, like, two things. One, how they
387
00:18:22.650 --> 00:18:25.950
happen in day-to-day life without anybody trying to manipulate you.
388
00:18:26.029 --> 00:18:28.809
And then let's talk about what social media does at
389
00:18:28.829 --> 00:18:31.170
the societal level. And I think people will have some
390
00:18:31.250 --> 00:18:34.470
similar experience because I can remember the first time that
391
00:18:34.539 --> 00:18:38.359
I actually experienced a collective illusion. So growing up, I
392
00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:40.500
was kind of a problematic child, which I'm sure we
393
00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.480
can talk about, and didn't really fit in except for
394
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:48.500
my grandmother, who was like my second mom. Whenever I
395
00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:50.920
was with her, I could just be myself, and I
396
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.640
was good enough. And she decided— I mean, they were very,
397
00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:57.339
very poor. She had me come and sleep over as
398
00:18:57.380 --> 00:18:59.759
a kid once a month, just me. Literally no other
399
00:18:59.799 --> 00:19:03.509
grandkids got this. And when I was there, she'd make
400
00:19:03.549 --> 00:19:08.369
a bologna sandwich in her little tiny kitchenette, we'd play
401
00:19:08.410 --> 00:19:11.450
Yahtzee together, and we'd just talk. And I could share
402
00:19:11.710 --> 00:19:14.380
anything with her, stuff I couldn't tell my parents. whatever.
403
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.539
It was literally amazing. It was this oasis for me
404
00:19:17.619 --> 00:19:21.609
in a really tough environment. We've been sleeping over, sleeping over,
405
00:19:21.710 --> 00:19:25.410
sleeping over. Then one time she says, hey, good news.
406
00:19:26.750 --> 00:19:29.410
I'm taking you to Sizzler, your grandpa and I, this steakhouse,
407
00:19:29.450 --> 00:19:33.839
this all-you-can-eat steakhouse. And I was like, I don't really
408
00:19:33.859 --> 00:19:36.400
want to go there. It's noisy there. I just want
409
00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:38.380
to be here. But I knew it meant a lot
410
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.519
to them. So I went with it. And that's what
411
00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:44.039
we started doing instead of just playing Yahtzee, would go
412
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:46.079
to Sizzler. And that went on for six years. Okay,
413
00:19:46.640 --> 00:19:49.690
so in 2015, we found out she was dying and
414
00:19:49.730 --> 00:19:52.589
I went. back to Utah where I was born to
415
00:19:52.710 --> 00:19:54.990
say goodbye to her. And I was preparing. I was like,
416
00:19:55.109 --> 00:19:57.109
my last conversation I'm ever going to have with this
417
00:19:57.250 --> 00:20:00.450
woman that meant the world to me. And I'm holding
418
00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:02.079
her hand and we're talking about a lot of things.
419
00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:03.430
And I thought, you know, I want to just let
420
00:20:03.490 --> 00:20:08.019
her know how transformative those sleepovers were to me. And
421
00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:09.380
I said, you know, grandma, I just want to tell
422
00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:13.259
you all those times sleeping over. She's like barely can
423
00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.539
get a word out. And she says, she touches my arm.
424
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:18.819
She says, I know, I know what mattered most to you.
425
00:20:19.299 --> 00:20:23.900
It was going to Sizzler. And I was like, wait, what? Like,
426
00:20:24.259 --> 00:20:26.539
and I didn't have the heart to be like, uh,
427
00:20:27.339 --> 00:20:28.200
I didn't like that at all.
428
00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:28.380
Right.
429
00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:31.009
But, but she said, I, just to be honest, um,
430
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.609
your grandpa and I didn't really like going to Sizzler,
431
00:20:33.650 --> 00:20:36.170
but we knew it meant a lot to you. So
432
00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:39.089
I'm sitting there thinking, wait, We all ended up going
433
00:20:39.109 --> 00:20:42.730
to Sizzler once a month for six years because we
434
00:20:42.789 --> 00:20:44.809
all thought we all wanted to go to Sizzler when
435
00:20:44.869 --> 00:20:47.799
nobody actually did. Again, I'd have the heart to tell
436
00:20:47.839 --> 00:20:50.059
her on her deathbed that she could have me for
437
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.359
a bologna sandwich. But that kind of like, nobody was
438
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.180
manipulating anyone. We care about each other. We want each
439
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:58.519
other to be happy and we can misread each other.
440
00:20:58.539 --> 00:21:02.930
And then just like the drink example, nobody wants to
441
00:21:03.049 --> 00:21:05.049
question it and we just keep doing it.
442
00:21:05.329 --> 00:21:08.890
You're making my wheels spin now where I'm sitting here thinking,
443
00:21:09.670 --> 00:21:12.720
what are we all continuing to do as a family?
444
00:21:12.740 --> 00:21:12.809
Yes.
445
00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:16.460
That we all think we're supposed to be doing. Like
446
00:21:16.519 --> 00:21:18.920
it could even be something as simple as we've always
447
00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:23.140
had the same meal for a certain holiday. Nobody actually
448
00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:27.579
likes it. Why are we not just doing something different
449
00:21:27.700 --> 00:21:28.660
and talking about it?
450
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:33.970
I promise you, one favor is just go to your
451
00:21:34.009 --> 00:21:36.849
family or your significant other and think about the things
452
00:21:36.890 --> 00:21:38.349
you do on a routine basis.
453
00:21:38.430 --> 00:21:39.869
Okay, so give us some examples.
454
00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:44.349
I have friends that have every Friday, we have salmon night.
455
00:21:44.730 --> 00:21:44.970
Yep.
456
00:21:45.109 --> 00:21:47.210
And we watch a movie. Maybe everybody wants to do that.
457
00:21:47.589 --> 00:21:51.579
It could be true. It's these basic day-to-day things and
458
00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:55.279
just say, honestly, do we still like doing this? You
459
00:21:55.500 --> 00:21:57.460
know what I mean? And just ask, you will be
460
00:21:57.579 --> 00:22:00.880
shocked at how many of these, someone's going, well, actually,
461
00:22:01.119 --> 00:22:03.950
if you give me the permission to be honest, Like, actually,
462
00:22:04.049 --> 00:22:06.170
maybe we could shake that up a bit. So if
463
00:22:06.450 --> 00:22:12.089
illusions can happen amongst tightly knit relationships, it's not surprising
464
00:22:12.130 --> 00:22:14.599
that they can happen in a country of 300 million
465
00:22:14.630 --> 00:22:18.640
people at a societal level. Think about it. You have
466
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:20.779
all these identities and you're tied to these groups that
467
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.619
matter to you, but they consist of people you're probably
468
00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.539
never going to meet. And you have to guess, what
469
00:22:26.579 --> 00:22:28.880
does that group believe? You know what I mean? So
470
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:30.980
I can know what it is I'm trying to align to.
471
00:22:31.539 --> 00:22:34.539
And here's the thing about your brain. that is just crazy,
472
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:38.759
is how your brain estimates what your group believes. Because
473
00:22:38.779 --> 00:22:42.250
you'd imagine, given how important it is with conformity and belonging,
474
00:22:42.490 --> 00:22:45.910
you'd have some sophisticated way that your brain calculates, like,
475
00:22:46.309 --> 00:22:48.750
on average, this is what my group believes. Now, there's
476
00:22:48.789 --> 00:22:52.089
a shortcut your brain takes. No kidding. Your brain assumes
477
00:22:52.470 --> 00:22:56.759
the loudest voices, repeated the most, are the majority.
478
00:22:57.859 --> 00:23:02.380
The loudest voices... repeated the most are the majority.
479
00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.740
Even when you know it's not true, even intellectually, you know, oh,
480
00:23:06.299 --> 00:23:08.859
this is just Mel telling me this over and over again.
481
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:13.059
That's your brain is keeping score this way. So it
482
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.299
must've worked. You evolved to have the shortcut, but you
483
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:18.099
put that into a social media age.
484
00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:18.740
Okay.
485
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.220
So here's a stat that blows my mind. Okay. If
486
00:23:21.269 --> 00:23:24.809
you take what was Twitter, which is now X, research
487
00:23:24.829 --> 00:23:29.200
has shown that 80% of all the content on that
488
00:23:29.259 --> 00:23:32.769
platform is generated by only 10% of the users.
489
00:23:32.769 --> 00:23:36.049
80% of the content you're reading on X is generated
490
00:23:36.069 --> 00:23:37.289
by 10%? By 10%.
491
00:23:37.289 --> 00:23:41.250
And here's the trick. Pew Research has found that that
492
00:23:41.250 --> 00:23:45.130
10% isn't remotely representative of the general public. They are
493
00:23:45.410 --> 00:23:48.450
extreme on almost every social issue. But you can see
494
00:23:48.470 --> 00:23:53.329
the problem here. Let's say 10% of people hold some view,
495
00:23:53.930 --> 00:23:56.690
but you think it's 80%.
496
00:23:56.819 --> 00:23:58.099
I think that's what's happened.
497
00:23:58.539 --> 00:24:01.940
That error signal kicks in unless you're willing to override
498
00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:04.640
that and go against what you think your group believes.
499
00:24:05.160 --> 00:24:09.369
What do you do? You end up self-silencing. You say nothing.
500
00:24:10.230 --> 00:24:13.109
Or worse, you start saying what you think people want
501
00:24:13.130 --> 00:24:15.329
to hear so you can be part of the group.
502
00:24:16.450 --> 00:24:20.390
And when enough people self-silence, the only people left are
503
00:24:20.430 --> 00:24:21.450
the people on the fringes.
504
00:24:21.789 --> 00:24:25.150
The 10% that are the loudest repeating everything that we
505
00:24:25.210 --> 00:24:28.690
then say, oh, well, everybody that's part of that party
506
00:24:28.730 --> 00:24:32.690
must believe that. Everybody that follows that person must believe that.
507
00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:36.430
And what you're basically saying is the research is very conclusive.
508
00:24:36.630 --> 00:24:40.690
That's absolutely not true. The loudest voices don't represent the majority.
509
00:24:40.710 --> 00:24:41.099
They don't.
510
00:24:41.170 --> 00:24:43.339
In fact, they almost never do. They wouldn't have to
511
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:46.180
be so loud, right? If you knew everybody agreed with you,
512
00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:49.619
you don't have to say much. But you can see how...
513
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:52.319
This is where then you get these societal level collective
514
00:24:52.339 --> 00:24:56.180
illusions because we're self-silencing. And our data on this is,
515
00:24:56.369 --> 00:24:58.349
we have more private opinion data on the American public
516
00:24:58.390 --> 00:25:03.789
than any organization I'm quite certain of. Almost two-thirds of
517
00:25:03.849 --> 00:25:08.599
people are admitting that they are self-silencing right now. That
518
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.819
means withholding things that matter to them because they think
519
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.619
other people disagree. Like this is a very dangerous place
520
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:17.940
to be when we can't even be honest with each other.
521
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:21.880
And so the problem with that is as these illusions form, okay?
522
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:25.500
So now I'm thinking, wow, most people, like what happened?
523
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:28.380
What happened to society? Like, am I crazy or did
524
00:25:28.420 --> 00:25:31.420
everybody else seem to go crazy? And it's like, you
525
00:25:31.440 --> 00:25:36.000
start feeling alienated from your group, isolated, a little bit
526
00:25:36.039 --> 00:25:39.000
resentful that you're having to self-silence. And we see this
527
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:41.660
in the data. You start losing trust in other people.
528
00:25:42.529 --> 00:25:44.930
And life gets much worse for you, but it also
529
00:25:44.950 --> 00:25:47.769
gets much worse for the rest of us. Because as
530
00:25:47.809 --> 00:25:51.700
a result, we end up with this false polarization, right?
531
00:25:52.099 --> 00:25:54.700
We feel like we're completely divided and it becomes self-fulfilling.
532
00:25:54.940 --> 00:25:55.180
Yes.
533
00:25:55.579 --> 00:25:58.400
We lose trust in each other and we become resentful.
534
00:25:58.460 --> 00:25:59.990
Now, I want to make sure that I'm unpacking this
535
00:26:00.009 --> 00:26:02.109
because I think this is so important what you're saying.
536
00:26:02.130 --> 00:26:07.049
And it is so important that you really take in,
537
00:26:07.069 --> 00:26:10.410
and I'm going to now call you Dr. Todd Rose,
538
00:26:10.650 --> 00:26:13.089
what he is saying about the data, because this is
539
00:26:13.130 --> 00:26:15.509
something that I have held in my heart that has
540
00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:19.599
made me very sad and has also made me pull
541
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:24.559
back and feel discouraged. I've bought into the collective illusion
542
00:26:24.579 --> 00:26:28.579
of what the loudest voices, you're saying it's the 10%,
543
00:26:28.579 --> 00:26:34.500
the fringe, are saying, and I have presumed that the
544
00:26:34.559 --> 00:26:36.480
majority of people believe in this.
545
00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.079
Yeah. We're the first generation now as a society that
546
00:26:40.140 --> 00:26:42.539
has to deal with collective illusions at scale because of
547
00:26:42.619 --> 00:26:46.079
social media. Like it just, you cannot trust your brain
548
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:48.269
to tell you what your group thinks anymore. You can't.
549
00:26:48.660 --> 00:26:50.930
And that's a hard thing to overcome. And when you
550
00:26:50.950 --> 00:26:54.230
put it into social media environment, even if no, there's
551
00:26:54.269 --> 00:26:57.150
no bad actors, just the dynamics of that, the loudest
552
00:26:57.210 --> 00:27:00.470
voices will guarantee that you're going to be wrong the
553
00:27:00.509 --> 00:27:01.650
longer you spend time on there.
554
00:27:01.869 --> 00:27:02.089
Yes.
555
00:27:02.309 --> 00:27:05.490
But it gets even worse. So My organization has partnered
556
00:27:05.509 --> 00:27:08.970
with other organizations. We've been studying the way in which
557
00:27:09.269 --> 00:27:13.039
foreign entities that are trying to disrupt us have built
558
00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:18.569
bot armies. Russia, China, they have millions of bots, some
559
00:27:18.609 --> 00:27:23.000
of them AI-enabled now. We often think when it's propaganda
560
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.180
and manipulation that they're just spreading disinformation. It's not what
561
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:26.609
they do at all.
562
00:27:26.769 --> 00:27:27.230
What do they do?
563
00:27:27.470 --> 00:27:30.470
The new form of propaganda is the ability to manufacture
564
00:27:30.490 --> 00:27:31.190
a collective illusion.
565
00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:34.789
So meaning like literally like put you in the matrix
566
00:27:34.950 --> 00:27:36.670
of what they want you to believe by.
567
00:27:36.569 --> 00:27:41.970
Intentionally targeting, especially Gen Z, to convince them that their
568
00:27:42.099 --> 00:27:46.079
communities believe things they don't. And that need to belong
569
00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:48.859
kicks in. I mean, we're talking about, so we know
570
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:53.660
on social media writ large, that roughly one-fourth of all
571
00:27:53.700 --> 00:27:56.359
the interactions you ever have are with bots and you
572
00:27:56.380 --> 00:27:56.740
don't know it.
573
00:27:57.099 --> 00:27:57.660
Say that again.
574
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:01.869
One-fourth of all your interactions on social media are with
575
00:28:01.950 --> 00:28:04.910
bots and you don't know it. And with AI-enabled bots,
576
00:28:05.210 --> 00:28:07.950
you wouldn't be able to tell. They are so sophisticated.
577
00:28:08.309 --> 00:28:10.849
So you just have to be careful to know. If
578
00:28:10.890 --> 00:28:13.170
you just get to that point and understand this concept
579
00:28:13.190 --> 00:28:14.390
of a collective illusion, right?
580
00:28:14.670 --> 00:28:14.890
Right.
581
00:28:15.009 --> 00:28:17.759
Groupthink, but you're wrong about the group. So why would
582
00:28:17.779 --> 00:28:21.180
you conform? Like if you conform to something your group
583
00:28:21.220 --> 00:28:23.880
doesn't want, you're destroying the group you actually care about.
584
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:27.160
So let me just unpack this. I really do think
585
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:31.119
this is critical that a quarter of the content that
586
00:28:31.180 --> 00:28:35.019
you interact with online are bots and that you believe
587
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:35.759
that's conservative.
588
00:28:35.779 --> 00:28:36.200
Yeah.
589
00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:42.240
That the bots are programmed to convince you to believe
590
00:28:42.299 --> 00:28:45.480
something that the majority of people do not agree with.
591
00:28:45.500 --> 00:28:45.700
Yeah.
592
00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:50.660
And I also will extrapolate that that is why it
593
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:56.180
is more important than ever that you stop conforming and
594
00:28:56.220 --> 00:28:59.930
you actually take a step back and you deeply connect
595
00:29:00.009 --> 00:29:02.890
with what's important to you and that you find the
596
00:29:02.950 --> 00:29:07.200
courage to start speaking up because Everybody else is waiting
597
00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.480
for somebody else to go first. And I believe regardless
598
00:29:10.500 --> 00:29:13.220
of how you voted, regardless of what country you live in,
599
00:29:13.660 --> 00:29:18.250
there is this deep weariness within families, within communities, within
600
00:29:18.349 --> 00:29:22.309
friend groups to even talk about anything because we convince
601
00:29:22.390 --> 00:29:27.539
ourselves that they believe what the bots and the 10%
602
00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:29.640
loudest voices believe and they don't. And you're here to
603
00:29:29.660 --> 00:29:31.769
tell us. that they don't believe that at all.
604
00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:33.640
They absolutely do not. I mean, we have the data.
605
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:36.420
You can download all of it. We've studied everything from
606
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:38.809
the kind of lives people want to live, the kind
607
00:29:38.829 --> 00:29:40.539
of country they want to live in, what they want
608
00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:45.160
from education, health care, criminal justice. It is shocking. When
609
00:29:45.200 --> 00:29:48.460
you get beyond the social pressure and the distortion, we
610
00:29:48.539 --> 00:29:52.829
are unbelievably similar in our aspirations, in our fears, in
611
00:29:52.869 --> 00:29:55.940
our desires. but we just don't believe it's true. And
612
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:59.220
so we act accordingly. And to your point, when we
613
00:29:59.259 --> 00:30:03.980
get weary and we just go silent, it's understandable, but
614
00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:06.319
then it becomes part of the illusion, right?
615
00:30:06.339 --> 00:30:07.180
It's true because nobody's speaking up.
616
00:30:07.180 --> 00:30:09.380
Because nobody's speaking up to the people that matter most
617
00:30:09.400 --> 00:30:09.599
to us.
618
00:30:09.660 --> 00:30:11.539
Except for the fringe, like yelling at each other.
619
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:15.940
Right. And so we all become caricatures of some fringe
620
00:30:16.039 --> 00:30:19.759
view that nobody really holds. And so one of the
621
00:30:19.799 --> 00:30:21.920
things that I've been the most proud of is, and
622
00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:23.829
the reason why I wanted to write this book is,
623
00:30:24.589 --> 00:30:27.630
You know, you give people a concept and people go, oh, wow,
624
00:30:27.869 --> 00:30:29.480
I didn't realize this. And then it opens up the
625
00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:32.220
ability to start talking about, well, wait a minute. Like,
626
00:30:32.279 --> 00:30:34.160
here's some of the things I think, you know, it's
627
00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:35.829
a safe way to have the conversation.
628
00:30:36.529 --> 00:30:41.000
Well, just even hearing that your data conclusively shows that
629
00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:46.250
the majority of people literally agree on the things that
630
00:30:46.269 --> 00:30:48.309
they care about and want out of life. Like, it
631
00:30:48.369 --> 00:30:50.230
makes me go, really? Because I've been in a duck
632
00:30:50.289 --> 00:30:52.450
and cover mode. Like, when is this madness going to end?
633
00:30:52.529 --> 00:30:54.529
When are we going to reconnect with what matters? Like,
634
00:30:54.609 --> 00:30:57.589
I kind of know that everybody agrees, but why isn't anybody...
635
00:30:57.549 --> 00:30:59.500
Why is there not a reasonable person like, oh, because
636
00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:01.400
I know a reasonable person doesn't want to stand up
637
00:31:01.440 --> 00:31:02.660
and get caught in this crossfire.
638
00:31:02.740 --> 00:31:02.920
Yep.
639
00:31:03.099 --> 00:31:05.500
That's why we're all like, okay, when is somebody normal
640
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.019
going to pop up and show us the way? But
641
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.880
you're here to say... We all have the ability to
642
00:31:10.920 --> 00:31:11.319
do this.
643
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:15.269
We do. And it's only we can do this because, like,
644
00:31:15.289 --> 00:31:16.970
if you think about it, there are people who profit
645
00:31:17.230 --> 00:31:21.230
from the illusions. Correct. And especially in a binary political system.
646
00:31:21.529 --> 00:31:22.210
Yes.
647
00:31:22.490 --> 00:31:25.150
There's a lot of benefit to getting people to be
648
00:31:25.359 --> 00:31:26.460
more extreme.
649
00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:26.920
Right.
650
00:31:27.059 --> 00:31:30.619
And locked into an identity where you'll fall on that
651
00:31:30.700 --> 00:31:32.299
sword because these are my people.
652
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.220
Todd. I have so many questions. I am so grateful
653
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:38.299
that you're here. I want to hit the pause button.
654
00:31:38.380 --> 00:31:40.460
I'd like to give our sponsors a chance to share
655
00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.470
a few words. And I also want to give you
656
00:31:43.529 --> 00:31:45.470
a chance to share this. This is one of the
657
00:31:45.589 --> 00:31:50.450
most important conversations that we have had on this podcast,
658
00:31:50.490 --> 00:31:53.569
not only because it has the ability to impact your life,
659
00:31:54.430 --> 00:31:59.210
but collectively, This is the kind of conversation that can
660
00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:01.039
make the world a better place. So I want to
661
00:32:01.140 --> 00:32:04.859
thank you for being generous as you share this. We
662
00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:07.640
are just getting started. Do not go anywhere. We haven't
663
00:32:07.660 --> 00:32:09.630
even gotten to the tools yet. We're going to get
664
00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:12.630
to that in a bit. We'll be right back after
665
00:32:12.670 --> 00:32:15.230
this short break with our sponsors. So stay with me.
666
00:32:20.450 --> 00:32:23.329
The Chemist Warehouse Fall Frenzy Mega Sale is now live.
667
00:32:23.529 --> 00:32:25.930
Find up to half price off RRP on big brands
668
00:32:26.130 --> 00:32:29.900
like Bio Oil, Lusotanning and SVR. Plus John Frieda, Batiste
669
00:32:29.940 --> 00:32:32.579
and Aussie Hair Care. And find great offers on big
670
00:32:32.599 --> 00:32:36.779
brand vitamins. But hurry, sale must end September 20. Chemist Warehouse,
671
00:32:36.859 --> 00:32:38.440
great savings every day.
672
00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:43.579
Delicious beef ragout for dinner because you can't keep up
673
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:47.279
with all the group chats. Make your mark. Always choose
674
00:32:47.380 --> 00:32:49.599
beef with the Bored Be A Quality mark.
675
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:12.640
That's why you can buy a tea from the SEAI. € 8, 000
676
00:33:12.539 --> 00:33:14.759
for a cup of tea. You can buy it now
677
00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:16.359
for € 1. And you can buy a tea from the
678
00:33:16.380 --> 00:33:19.079
SEAI for € 1. You can buy a tea from the SEAI.
679
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:23.400
You can buy a tea from the SEAI. You can
680
00:33:23.539 --> 00:33:24.680
buy a tea from the SEAI.
681
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:38.039
Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you
682
00:33:38.079 --> 00:33:41.619
and I are learning about this incredible data set from Dr.
683
00:33:41.660 --> 00:33:46.589
Todd Rose and all about this lie that we collectively
684
00:33:46.650 --> 00:33:50.549
believe that is keeping us from living our authentic life,
685
00:33:50.630 --> 00:33:53.049
from making the world a better place. I am so
686
00:33:53.269 --> 00:33:55.730
interested in this topic. I'm so glad that you're here.
687
00:33:56.190 --> 00:33:59.690
So Todd, can you share the data on what people
688
00:34:00.029 --> 00:34:03.230
actually agree on and care about so that as you're
689
00:34:03.269 --> 00:34:06.299
listening and watching, like this is an incredible episode to
690
00:34:06.420 --> 00:34:09.699
send to family members and to send to friends that
691
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:12.420
you feel like you can't talk to anymore because you
692
00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:18.400
believe the collective illusion that they somehow don't agree with
693
00:34:18.440 --> 00:34:21.139
you on core things. So what does the data say
694
00:34:21.199 --> 00:34:22.599
about what people actually care about?
695
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:24.639
So let's take a few things because we can go
696
00:34:24.980 --> 00:34:27.820
all day on this, which is pretty incredible. We studied
697
00:34:28.010 --> 00:34:30.190
the American aspirations of Mexico. So this was a U.S.
698
00:34:30.230 --> 00:34:33.090
focused one. And we studied, what do you want for
699
00:34:33.110 --> 00:34:36.110
the country? And there were dozens and dozens and dozens
700
00:34:36.150 --> 00:34:40.610
of possibilities. And what was shocking to me, we found
701
00:34:40.789 --> 00:34:44.579
that In the top 10 aspirations for the country, we
702
00:34:44.619 --> 00:34:47.949
agreed on eight out of the 10. Individual rights. We
703
00:34:47.989 --> 00:34:51.650
still believe that in free speech, treating each other with respect,
704
00:34:52.389 --> 00:34:56.010
everyone have high quality healthcare. So there's a basic kind
705
00:34:56.050 --> 00:34:58.710
of life we want to live together. And we know
706
00:34:58.730 --> 00:35:00.719
that we owe each other certain things to make that
707
00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.019
life possible. And it turns out we agree on that. Now,
708
00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:06.760
as you said earlier, back in the day, we might
709
00:35:06.800 --> 00:35:09.829
disagree on how we do it. right? Do you have
710
00:35:09.889 --> 00:35:12.760
Medicare for all? Do you have more like Romney care
711
00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:14.980
we had in Massachusetts? You know, there are different ways
712
00:35:15.019 --> 00:35:17.000
that we can debate how to get it done. But
713
00:35:17.019 --> 00:35:20.559
it turns out the ultimate aims were shockingly similar on.
714
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:27.960
I find it extraordinarily encouraging to hear that underneath all
715
00:35:28.019 --> 00:35:30.460
the noise of the loudest voices and the division and
716
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:36.099
the bots, that human beings are agree on eight out
717
00:35:36.139 --> 00:35:37.960
of the 10 things that are the most important things.
718
00:35:38.219 --> 00:35:40.619
What did you find about our personal lives? Like how
719
00:35:40.639 --> 00:35:43.469
do people want to live and how do we like
720
00:35:43.889 --> 00:35:46.429
break us? Tell me the list on what we agree
721
00:35:46.550 --> 00:35:48.409
on and then let's unpack that.
722
00:35:49.250 --> 00:35:53.750
Probably the single most important study we've ever done that
723
00:35:53.789 --> 00:35:56.880
I think has the most implications for society and for
724
00:35:56.920 --> 00:36:00.460
individuals is it's called the success index.
725
00:36:00.699 --> 00:36:01.780
The success index.
726
00:36:01.840 --> 00:36:05.449
And we wanted to know What do you mean by
727
00:36:05.469 --> 00:36:08.389
a successful life for you? What kind of life do
728
00:36:08.469 --> 00:36:11.750
you want to live? Nothing's more important than you feeling
729
00:36:11.769 --> 00:36:13.449
like you're living the kind of life that you want
730
00:36:13.469 --> 00:36:15.820
to live, even if no one else wants to live it, right?
731
00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:20.079
That's literally the American dream. That's literally like the key
732
00:36:20.179 --> 00:36:23.679
to flourishing. It's the key to social trust. It's the
733
00:36:23.719 --> 00:36:26.579
key to everything. So we did this, I mean, massive
734
00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:29.599
private opinion study with the same kind of trade-offs, right?
735
00:36:29.619 --> 00:36:31.889
Because you can't have everything in life, right? We had
736
00:36:31.889 --> 00:36:35.030
61 possible attributes for a good life.
737
00:36:35.070 --> 00:36:36.860
So you can pick between 61.
738
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:39.500
Everything from having a family to being the richest person
739
00:36:39.539 --> 00:36:42.219
you know and everything in between. Okay. And then you
740
00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:44.920
force the trade-offs in this way that gives you anonymity
741
00:36:44.980 --> 00:36:45.719
and plausibility.
742
00:36:45.739 --> 00:36:47.489
So you have to rank what you want?
743
00:36:47.619 --> 00:36:49.250
It's amazing. We can go into details on how they
744
00:36:49.269 --> 00:36:50.969
do it. There's some stuff on our site they'll show you.
745
00:36:51.010 --> 00:36:54.469
It's really cool. But you can't game it. It's so
746
00:36:54.530 --> 00:36:55.969
good at getting at private views.
747
00:36:56.210 --> 00:36:56.469
Okay. Okay.
748
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.340
So let's talk about what most people see in terms
749
00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:03.239
of their top priorities for a good life. It warms
750
00:37:03.300 --> 00:37:08.150
my heart. The number one priority for a successful life
751
00:37:08.250 --> 00:37:10.690
is I want to do work that has a positive
752
00:37:10.750 --> 00:37:14.670
impact on other people. They want to contribute. In that
753
00:37:14.750 --> 00:37:25.409
top 10, across all demographics, were things to do with relationships, family, character, self-improvement,
754
00:37:25.730 --> 00:37:26.070
and growth.
755
00:37:26.610 --> 00:37:26.789
Okay?
756
00:37:27.539 --> 00:37:29.059
In fact, one of the really crazy ones that I
757
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:32.380
think is important is across every demographic in the top
758
00:37:32.380 --> 00:37:36.150
10 was, I want to be more engaged in my community. Now,
759
00:37:36.190 --> 00:37:39.849
here's what's interesting. We also measure how well you're achieving
760
00:37:39.909 --> 00:37:43.070
on these different things. Involved in your community was the
761
00:37:43.150 --> 00:37:46.829
lowest achieved of all top 10 priorities for your life.
762
00:37:47.170 --> 00:37:51.469
In fact, more people reported being debt-free than involved in
763
00:37:51.510 --> 00:37:52.909
their community at the level they want to.
764
00:37:53.530 --> 00:37:54.809
What does that tell you as a researcher?
765
00:37:55.219 --> 00:37:58.380
It tells me that, well, we've lost that civic layer
766
00:37:58.420 --> 00:38:01.619
of society that gave us the way to engage and contribute,
767
00:38:02.159 --> 00:38:03.219
and they don't know how to do it.
768
00:38:03.820 --> 00:38:05.460
And by the way— And then if you also assume
769
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:10.550
that nobody agrees with you and everybody— So this.
770
00:38:10.349 --> 00:38:12.610
Is when we ask, so what do you think most
771
00:38:12.650 --> 00:38:16.369
people see as a successful life? Same trade-off things. It
772
00:38:16.530 --> 00:38:20.840
flips entirely. They think everyone is obsessed with status, wealth,
773
00:38:21.260 --> 00:38:25.079
getting into the most prestigious school. The top thing that
774
00:38:25.179 --> 00:38:28.639
people think everyone else cares about is being famous.
775
00:38:29.429 --> 00:38:29.889
Really?
776
00:38:29.909 --> 00:38:34.690
Okay. In private, it's dead last. Now, let me unpack
777
00:38:34.789 --> 00:38:37.789
why that really matters, okay? Because there's an important thing
778
00:38:37.809 --> 00:38:42.219
about collective illusions, which is this. This generation's illusions... tend
779
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:45.800
to become next generation's private opinion if you don't do something.
780
00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:46.699
Say that again?
781
00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:52.159
This generation's collective illusions tend to become next generation's private opinion.
782
00:38:52.860 --> 00:38:55.880
Let's use the example of fame because young kids don't
783
00:38:55.969 --> 00:38:59.570
know that we're lying. So young kids look to culture,
784
00:38:59.909 --> 00:39:02.570
look to media, like look to each other. What do
785
00:39:02.610 --> 00:39:06.190
we believe? What do we aspire to? So my colleagues
786
00:39:06.250 --> 00:39:09.550
at UCLA have tracked the effects of culture and media
787
00:39:09.710 --> 00:39:12.949
on middle school kids for a very long time Up
788
00:39:13.010 --> 00:39:16.070
until a few years ago, the top thing that emerged
789
00:39:16.510 --> 00:39:19.199
every year had to do with character. Think like Mr.
790
00:39:19.260 --> 00:39:22.380
Rogers kind of stuff, right? Wonderful. A few years ago,
791
00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.610
it switched to I want to be famous, and it
792
00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:29.010
hasn't changed back. I remember they interviewed one kid in
793
00:39:29.030 --> 00:39:30.500
the study, and he said, I want to have a
794
00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:33.079
million followers. They said, okay, for what? And he said,
795
00:39:33.139 --> 00:39:37.760
doesn't matter. So it's bad enough when these illusions lead
796
00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:41.730
our young kids to pursue dead ends that we know.
797
00:39:41.809 --> 00:39:43.750
We know that's not how you live a good life.
798
00:39:44.070 --> 00:39:47.590
That's bad enough. But when it starts to become about
799
00:39:47.849 --> 00:39:52.010
the fundamental assumptions of democracy, of free society, of our
800
00:39:52.110 --> 00:39:56.079
shared humanity, you can see the real danger to us
801
00:39:56.159 --> 00:39:57.280
individually and collectively.
802
00:39:57.719 --> 00:40:05.719
So if this generation's collective illusion is that the number
803
00:40:05.820 --> 00:40:10.170
one aspiration in life is being famous because they have
804
00:40:10.269 --> 00:40:14.829
bought into the lie that that's what everybody else prioritizes
805
00:40:14.889 --> 00:40:18.550
and values. That's what everybody else thinks matters. How does
806
00:40:18.590 --> 00:40:21.570
that impact the next generation when it comes to their
807
00:40:21.610 --> 00:40:22.369
private opinion?
808
00:40:22.449 --> 00:40:24.929
So, because again, they don't know it's a lie.
809
00:40:25.150 --> 00:40:25.389
Yes.
810
00:40:25.670 --> 00:40:28.889
And they're looking to society to tell them initially what
811
00:40:28.929 --> 00:40:30.809
to value, right? We're social species.
812
00:40:31.110 --> 00:40:31.349
Yes.
813
00:40:31.409 --> 00:40:34.730
We internalize the norms, the aspirations. What does it mean
814
00:40:34.750 --> 00:40:38.010
to succeed? And they will internalize that as, well, that's
815
00:40:38.159 --> 00:40:40.739
what I believe. I mean, they genuinely believe it. They're
816
00:40:40.780 --> 00:40:43.079
not lying. The kids aren't lying. they'll learn the hard
817
00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:44.840
way again, just like we all have, that that's a
818
00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:46.820
really bad way to think about living a good life.
819
00:40:47.599 --> 00:40:49.659
But that's really sad. I mean, it has to come
820
00:40:49.699 --> 00:40:52.030
to that. At the end of the day, like what's
821
00:40:52.119 --> 00:40:54.349
so important about this, and we can talk about why,
822
00:40:54.829 --> 00:40:59.250
when it comes to collective illusions, it's about individuals. It's
823
00:40:59.289 --> 00:41:04.789
about authenticity. Authenticity is the kryptonite of collective illusions. Silence
824
00:41:04.849 --> 00:41:07.110
is never the answer. Authenticity always is.
825
00:41:07.289 --> 00:41:11.179
So is the reason why So many people are miserable
826
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:15.000
as they're chasing success is because they're chasing a version
827
00:41:15.039 --> 00:41:17.820
of success that they believe other people have.
828
00:41:17.909 --> 00:41:20.449
And let's be fair to all of us. We want
829
00:41:20.469 --> 00:41:22.909
to be successful on our own terms, and we also
830
00:41:22.949 --> 00:41:25.789
would love to be recognized for that.
831
00:41:26.030 --> 00:41:26.650
But for what?
832
00:41:26.789 --> 00:41:30.389
So if I think being successful is finding fulfillment and
833
00:41:30.429 --> 00:41:33.190
doing something, like literally most people's view of success is
834
00:41:34.030 --> 00:41:36.179
getting meaning in their life by contributing to the lives
835
00:41:36.219 --> 00:41:39.989
of other people. That's literally, if I could sum it up, right? Well,
836
00:41:40.070 --> 00:41:41.809
I want to do that, but I would also love
837
00:41:41.869 --> 00:41:44.650
that you recognize that I do that and it's valuable.
838
00:41:44.909 --> 00:41:49.360
Like nothing wrong with wanting society to recognize my accomplishments,
839
00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:54.179
my aspirations, and validate them. The slippery slope is I can,
840
00:41:54.219 --> 00:41:56.900
without thinking, just like with your drinking example, where you're like,
841
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:58.539
I didn't even think about it and suddenly I'm having
842
00:41:58.559 --> 00:41:59.219
a glass of wine.
843
00:41:59.320 --> 00:41:59.559
Yes.
844
00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:03.389
Without thinking about it, we can easily slip into wanting
845
00:42:03.469 --> 00:42:08.010
their affirmation first and corrupting what we choose to do
846
00:42:08.969 --> 00:42:10.960
as a result. And I'll give you why this matters.
847
00:42:11.460 --> 00:42:15.389
In our research, we linked achievement on that success index
848
00:42:16.090 --> 00:42:19.130
to life satisfaction. Like how happy are you with your life?
849
00:42:19.469 --> 00:42:21.550
Here's what was amazing. To the extent that you were
850
00:42:21.590 --> 00:42:23.929
achieving on your private priorities.
851
00:42:24.349 --> 00:42:27.010
And just to make sure I'm tracking with you, people
852
00:42:27.110 --> 00:42:30.199
publicly say, I want the fame, I want the house,
853
00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:30.760
I want.
854
00:42:30.639 --> 00:42:32.690
The car, I want the followers. I want the fancy car,
855
00:42:32.699 --> 00:42:33.360
the biggest house.
856
00:42:33.579 --> 00:42:38.510
But what secretly matters to you is your family, your friendships,
857
00:42:38.630 --> 00:42:39.469
my community.
858
00:42:39.530 --> 00:42:42.480
Being a good person. If you achieve on those, it
859
00:42:42.579 --> 00:42:45.659
directly increases life satisfaction. In fact, just.
860
00:42:45.699 --> 00:42:48.460
If you directly achieve on the things that are private.
861
00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:51.340
Yes, and here's the thing. It was such a big effect.
862
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:54.599
because people are only achieving about 50% of their own
863
00:42:54.800 --> 00:42:57.179
priorities right now. If you bump that up by just
864
00:42:57.179 --> 00:42:59.460
20 points, which is actually not hard when what we
865
00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:01.800
care about is being a good person, being involved in
866
00:43:01.820 --> 00:43:04.909
your community, anyone can do that, right? Yeah. It led
867
00:43:04.949 --> 00:43:07.829
to an increase in life satisfaction that was the same
868
00:43:07.969 --> 00:43:09.510
as doubling your salary.
869
00:43:10.349 --> 00:43:10.650
Wow.
870
00:43:10.769 --> 00:43:13.090
Okay, so it's a big deal, but now flip it around.
871
00:43:14.070 --> 00:43:17.510
No amount of achievement on what you think other people
872
00:43:17.909 --> 00:43:22.860
value increases life satisfaction at all. It is an absolute
873
00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.110
dead end. I mean, so this is what I say.
874
00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:27.869
This sort of personal success, I think, is the most
875
00:43:27.949 --> 00:43:32.769
important illusion we've ever found because it completely corrupts your
876
00:43:32.869 --> 00:43:36.610
own life. It leads to misery, right? And it's the
877
00:43:36.710 --> 00:43:39.969
one illusion that only you can solve. You have the
878
00:43:40.030 --> 00:43:42.550
power right now to solve that one, right? You don't
879
00:43:42.570 --> 00:43:45.670
need anyone's permission to start making different choices about the
880
00:43:45.710 --> 00:43:46.360
life you live.
881
00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:50.579
To get honest with yourself about what privately matters and
882
00:43:50.619 --> 00:43:55.269
to stop obsessing about what you think everybody else thinks,
883
00:43:55.309 --> 00:43:58.110
because you're here to tell us, all of that is
884
00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:01.320
an illusion. What you think other people think isn't even
885
00:44:01.340 --> 00:44:02.639
what they privately believe.
886
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:05.440
The group doesn't even believe the thing that you're about
887
00:44:05.480 --> 00:44:08.099
to conform to. And so when you do it, and
888
00:44:08.179 --> 00:44:11.039
enough of us do it, we literally destroy the very
889
00:44:11.099 --> 00:44:12.179
group that we care about.
890
00:44:12.590 --> 00:44:16.110
And when you listen, and that's why I love this conversation,
891
00:44:16.949 --> 00:44:20.960
you're being reminded of the things that privately... you know
892
00:44:20.980 --> 00:44:25.070
deep down are true and that you can, from this
893
00:44:25.190 --> 00:44:28.429
moment forward, start living your life with the truth because
894
00:44:28.469 --> 00:44:29.389
the data shows it.
895
00:44:29.610 --> 00:44:32.230
Ask yourself, how would you behave if you knew for
896
00:44:32.329 --> 00:44:35.630
sure that this thing was an illusion? If you knew
897
00:44:35.650 --> 00:44:38.070
for sure your group didn't believe the thing that this
898
00:44:38.929 --> 00:44:40.489
fringe is just shouting at you.
899
00:44:40.610 --> 00:44:42.489
Well, you'd probably be talking to your friends more. You'd
900
00:44:42.510 --> 00:44:44.949
probably be involved in your community.
901
00:44:45.159 --> 00:44:45.320
Yeah.
902
00:44:45.550 --> 00:44:46.940
You'd probably wear what you want to wear.
903
00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:47.340
Yeah.
904
00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.750
You'd probably speak up more. You know, because what happens
905
00:44:50.869 --> 00:44:54.889
when you recognize so much of the noise is noise
906
00:44:55.670 --> 00:44:59.019
and 80% of us, based on the eight out of
907
00:44:59.019 --> 00:45:02.159
10 data that you have been crunching, really want the
908
00:45:02.199 --> 00:45:05.679
same things. We may disagree a little bit on how
909
00:45:05.699 --> 00:45:08.500
to achieve it, but we want the same things. And
910
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:14.889
the kryptonite you said to exploding all of this noise
911
00:45:15.570 --> 00:45:22.230
is you personally. starting to make decisions day by day,
912
00:45:22.789 --> 00:45:26.630
conversation by conversation, moment by moment, that really align with
913
00:45:26.670 --> 00:45:28.789
those deeper things that you want for yourself.
914
00:45:28.809 --> 00:45:31.010
Because this is how we live our lives and the
915
00:45:31.050 --> 00:45:35.500
illusion that's like darkening our doorstep here. Because if you
916
00:45:35.519 --> 00:45:38.539
look at the research on what happens when we self-silence,
917
00:45:38.860 --> 00:45:40.820
so let's look at the downside of it and then
918
00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:43.739
look at the upside of being authentic. The downside of
919
00:45:43.780 --> 00:45:48.969
self-silencing is shocking. Okay, so research that followed longitudinally people
920
00:45:49.409 --> 00:45:53.980
who were self-silencing and people who weren't. Self-silencers actually have
921
00:45:54.480 --> 00:46:00.239
dramatically higher rates of cardiovascular disease, strokes, high cholesterol, everything.
922
00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:03.280
And there's a mechanism for it, which is basically when
923
00:46:03.340 --> 00:46:08.409
you're self-silencer or misrepresenting your views, you get this cognitive dissonance,
924
00:46:08.550 --> 00:46:09.949
you know, this kind of like, I know I'm not
925
00:46:10.010 --> 00:46:14.929
being honest. Cortisol levels elevate and they stay elevated. And
926
00:46:15.010 --> 00:46:17.809
cortisol is good in the short term when you're under
927
00:46:18.050 --> 00:46:22.349
threat and absolutely toxic, breaks down blood vessels, everything. The
928
00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:25.070
study I'm referring to actually tracked women who have much
929
00:46:25.110 --> 00:46:27.809
higher rates of self-silencing and just found when you look
930
00:46:27.829 --> 00:46:30.550
at all the gaps in mental health issues, there's usually
931
00:46:30.570 --> 00:46:36.059
a gender gap, right? Eating disorders, depression, anxiety, autoimmune disorders.
932
00:46:37.059 --> 00:46:40.719
When you control for rates of self-silencing, the gender gap disappears.
933
00:46:42.000 --> 00:46:44.219
This is a big deal. This is a big deal
934
00:46:44.260 --> 00:46:44.909
for your physical health.
935
00:46:44.949 --> 00:46:50.219
What does that mean to the person listening who knows
936
00:46:50.340 --> 00:46:53.000
that you're the person that stays silent in meetings? You're
937
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:55.380
the person that doesn't rock the boat. So you're in
938
00:46:55.880 --> 00:46:59.860
conflict with your privately held beliefs with yourself.
939
00:47:00.090 --> 00:47:00.269
Yeah.
940
00:47:00.550 --> 00:47:02.630
And you're living like that. And what you're saying is,
941
00:47:03.250 --> 00:47:05.130
based on the research, women do this more than men.
942
00:47:06.269 --> 00:47:09.829
And there's lots of reasons why. But in the data...
943
00:47:10.530 --> 00:47:14.210
When you look at people who are self-silencers, it has
944
00:47:15.269 --> 00:47:19.489
massively negative health outcomes. But when you remove the gender piece.
945
00:47:19.869 --> 00:47:23.440
When you remove the self-silencing, the effect of that, it
946
00:47:23.460 --> 00:47:25.280
turns out there isn't a gender gap in those things.
947
00:47:25.820 --> 00:47:28.980
It's about self-silencing. Like, that's not everything, right? There's lots
948
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:31.300
of reasons why we can end up with anxiety. But
949
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:34.219
I think the reason I say this is that when
950
00:47:34.260 --> 00:47:36.809
we self-silence, I think we tend to think that it's
951
00:47:37.210 --> 00:47:40.300
sort of benign, right? It's not much of a cost. Yeah,
952
00:47:40.320 --> 00:47:43.320
I don't feel so good, but look, I get to
953
00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:46.039
fit in. What I want to show you is, no,
954
00:47:46.059 --> 00:47:50.300
there is a profound cost to your physical health, right?
955
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:54.489
There is a cost to your psychological health. I mean,
956
00:47:55.030 --> 00:47:59.389
self-scientific is correlated with anxiety, depression, eating disorders, all these things.
957
00:48:00.090 --> 00:48:04.530
And there is a cost to humanity, right? In the
958
00:48:04.659 --> 00:48:09.619
false polarization, the distrust, the resentment that is pervasive in
959
00:48:09.679 --> 00:48:12.860
society today. And democracies do not survive this kind of threat.
960
00:48:13.239 --> 00:48:15.349
And I will say one thing, which is, you know,
961
00:48:15.409 --> 00:48:21.010
one of my favorite psychologists, the humanist Carl Rogers, said
962
00:48:21.829 --> 00:48:25.929
all of problems in society from nations against nations, groups
963
00:48:25.989 --> 00:48:29.889
against groups, boil down to individuals at war with themselves.
964
00:48:32.260 --> 00:48:35.760
When we start to misrepresent our views, when we self-silence
965
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:38.929
to fit in, we're at war with ourselves.
966
00:48:39.369 --> 00:48:43.130
You're creating this war internally because you're forcing yourself to
967
00:48:43.170 --> 00:48:45.929
stay silent on something you don't agree with.
968
00:48:46.050 --> 00:48:49.360
That's right. So you're internalizing all the downside and you
969
00:48:49.380 --> 00:48:51.420
don't recognize it. And what's funny is we don't connect
970
00:48:51.440 --> 00:48:54.019
those dots. We start seeing our health start to fail.
971
00:48:55.000 --> 00:48:58.000
We see our mental health start to deteriorate. And we
972
00:48:58.019 --> 00:49:00.440
look for all these reasons. I don't think it's coincidental.
973
00:49:00.460 --> 00:49:01.500
I don't think this is the only cause, but I
974
00:49:01.500 --> 00:49:04.590
think it's coincidental that our youngest generation that was literally
975
00:49:04.639 --> 00:49:09.780
born online has this skyrocketing anxiety and mental health challenges
976
00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:12.530
that are real, and they're coming from a number of places,
977
00:49:12.989 --> 00:49:16.869
but for sure, because we know in our data that
978
00:49:16.929 --> 00:49:19.949
Gen Z is self-silencing at the highest rate of anxiety.
979
00:49:20.030 --> 00:49:21.780
any demographic that we've ever studied.
980
00:49:22.300 --> 00:49:22.909
Why is that?
981
00:49:22.969 --> 00:49:24.920
Because they're online more than anybody else.
982
00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:31.099
And how does being online all the time reinforce this self-silencing?
983
00:49:31.219 --> 00:49:34.079
Because when I'm in person, I get a lot more cues.
984
00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:36.900
First of all, I know they're real people. I know
985
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:41.039
a lot of them. When I'm online... I'm getting inundated
986
00:49:41.119 --> 00:49:45.840
with likes, with stuff pushed to me repeatedly. And remember
987
00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:49.309
your brain's going, loudest voices repeated the most are the majority.
988
00:49:49.730 --> 00:49:52.170
And so on almost everything, especially when you're in those
989
00:49:52.250 --> 00:49:56.730
formative years, what do I believe? Who am I? What
990
00:49:56.750 --> 00:50:00.329
do I aspire to? They're being shaped by illusions in
991
00:50:00.369 --> 00:50:03.030
ways that none of us have ever really experienced. Those
992
00:50:03.090 --> 00:50:04.909
of us that at least remember a time when there
993
00:50:04.949 --> 00:50:07.989
wasn't social media. And again, I'm not saying social media
994
00:50:08.030 --> 00:50:10.110
is bad. It's got a lot of upside. But like
995
00:50:10.230 --> 00:50:13.690
any technology, there's always a downside. And if you don't
996
00:50:13.809 --> 00:50:15.789
recognize the downside, you're going to live it.
997
00:50:16.429 --> 00:50:19.429
I think as a parent, my heart just collapsed because
998
00:50:19.829 --> 00:50:27.210
I see that paralysis in self-expression. This fear that it's
999
00:50:27.230 --> 00:50:29.659
going to be cringy, fear that somebody's going to judge it,
1000
00:50:29.869 --> 00:50:33.170
fear that you're not going to get the likes that
1001
00:50:33.190 --> 00:50:36.699
you want, which is all driven by conformity. which then
1002
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:43.550
has you, A, silence yourself, and then B, now operate
1003
00:50:43.650 --> 00:50:47.329
online in a way that you think gets people to
1004
00:50:47.389 --> 00:50:51.179
like you because we're wired for conformity. So how do
1005
00:50:51.280 --> 00:50:54.739
you break down this, given that we're wired for conformity
1006
00:50:55.039 --> 00:50:58.619
and we understand how self-silence, because self-silence at work, you
1007
00:50:58.659 --> 00:51:03.010
don't talk in meetings. Self-silence at work, you don't raise problems.
1008
00:51:03.070 --> 00:51:05.469
You don't talk about the mistakes that happened and how
1009
00:51:05.489 --> 00:51:08.730
you solved them. Self-silence, you start to operate the way
1010
00:51:08.789 --> 00:51:11.130
everybody else does because you think that's the way you
1011
00:51:11.150 --> 00:51:11.389
get ahead.
1012
00:51:11.409 --> 00:51:11.650
That's right.
1013
00:51:11.730 --> 00:51:13.789
And by the way, when everyone starts doing that and
1014
00:51:13.809 --> 00:51:19.280
starts conforming, groups lose their vitality. Groups lose their purpose, right?
1015
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:21.989
The purpose of a group is not blind conformity. It's
1016
00:51:22.010 --> 00:51:24.849
that we're better together. It's that we can cooperate. It's
1017
00:51:24.889 --> 00:51:28.110
that we can exchange ideas, right? That I can learn
1018
00:51:28.170 --> 00:51:31.530
from you and be like, maybe I'm wrong, but that
1019
00:51:31.590 --> 00:51:35.000
loses its function. And it just becomes this blind tribalism
1020
00:51:35.699 --> 00:51:38.500
where we're just like, now who's our enemy? Okay, we're
1021
00:51:38.519 --> 00:51:42.659
good because they're losing. It's just, it's pretty horrific. The
1022
00:51:42.699 --> 00:51:45.320
trick is, is if you care about living a good life,
1023
00:51:46.119 --> 00:51:49.360
authenticity is everything. By the way, let me just be clear.
1024
00:51:49.449 --> 00:51:52.150
Authenticity doesn't mean you even know all the facts about yourself.
1025
00:51:52.670 --> 00:51:54.789
It's that you are acting in accordance with who you
1026
00:51:54.869 --> 00:51:58.469
believe you are in that moment. That's the win. It
1027
00:51:59.130 --> 00:51:59.829
doesn't mean you're right.
1028
00:51:59.969 --> 00:52:00.769
Give me an example.
1029
00:52:01.070 --> 00:52:04.860
So I could believe that I care about football. It's
1030
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:06.920
my preference. I love it so much because, you know,
1031
00:52:07.380 --> 00:52:08.340
my mom taught me it.
1032
00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:09.320
It matters.
1033
00:52:09.360 --> 00:52:12.039
I do actually care quite a bit about it. And
1034
00:52:12.300 --> 00:52:15.369
so I express myself that way. I follow the Patriots.
1035
00:52:15.510 --> 00:52:18.309
It's a little tough right now, but we'll get back.
1036
00:52:19.750 --> 00:52:23.090
But let's say it turns out I buy season tickets
1037
00:52:23.250 --> 00:52:26.880
and I go and I'm like, oof, actually, I don't
1038
00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:29.880
actually like football anymore. Or maybe I never did. I
1039
00:52:29.920 --> 00:52:34.159
just thought I did. It wasn't about being accurate. It's
1040
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.769
that the choice I made at the time was consistent
1041
00:52:36.789 --> 00:52:40.619
with who I believe I am. All the benefits of
1042
00:52:41.360 --> 00:52:44.579
authenticity accrue from that, not from being accurate.
1043
00:52:44.599 --> 00:52:48.380
So in other words, you buying the Patriot tickets is
1044
00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:51.400
an authentic decision. It aligns with what you believe to
1045
00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.170
be true. You going and sitting there and freezing your
1046
00:52:54.210 --> 00:52:56.469
rear end off while you sit on a sleeping bag,
1047
00:52:56.489 --> 00:52:59.070
you know, in the middle of January watching a game
1048
00:52:59.110 --> 00:53:00.010
in an open stadium.
1049
00:53:00.150 --> 00:53:00.730
Quite literally true.
1050
00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:01.260
Yes.
1051
00:53:01.340 --> 00:53:03.960
And you're like, uh, I don't think I like this anymore.
1052
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:07.500
And that is also an authentic decision. I had the
1053
00:53:07.539 --> 00:53:09.980
same experience. I grew up skiing, love skiing, love skiing
1054
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:13.059
with my parents, love skiing in Northern Michigan. Then I
1055
00:53:13.219 --> 00:53:15.119
didn't ski for a while. Then I married a guy
1056
00:53:15.260 --> 00:53:17.260
who's a ski racer. And you know what I learned?
1057
00:53:17.610 --> 00:53:20.769
I don't like skiing that much. And you know, I
1058
00:53:20.809 --> 00:53:23.289
can tell you an opposite one. Golf, hate golf. No
1059
00:53:23.329 --> 00:53:25.550
time for golf. Don't care about golf. Didn't get golf.
1060
00:53:25.610 --> 00:53:27.869
Don't understand why people watch golf. Then all of a
1061
00:53:27.909 --> 00:53:30.809
sudden I'm riding on a golf cart with my husband.
1062
00:53:32.289 --> 00:53:34.070
And we're chatting and talking because I just want to
1063
00:53:34.090 --> 00:53:36.250
spend some time with them that I'm doing with my parents.
1064
00:53:36.989 --> 00:53:39.210
And I'm like, wow, it's kind of beautiful out here. Wow.
1065
00:53:39.510 --> 00:53:43.030
We're talking a lot. Guess what? I'm now thinking I
1066
00:53:43.050 --> 00:53:43.860
might want to play golf.
1067
00:53:43.920 --> 00:53:44.079
Yeah.
1068
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:45.719
And that's authentic.
1069
00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:48.400
Correct. Because remember, what we don't want is for you
1070
00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:51.739
to stop growing. And changing. So at any moment, you
1071
00:53:51.780 --> 00:53:53.039
have a set of beliefs about yourself.
1072
00:53:53.340 --> 00:53:53.519
Yep.
1073
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:55.400
And as long as they're aligned with who you believe
1074
00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:57.719
you are, you get all the benefits of authenticity, which
1075
00:53:58.300 --> 00:54:00.860
they are incredible. A level of confidence that will just
1076
00:54:00.900 --> 00:54:04.340
blow your mind, right? Not arrogance, just a deep confidence
1077
00:54:04.429 --> 00:54:07.300
in yourself and your ability to make decisions. People who
1078
00:54:07.389 --> 00:54:09.969
are authentic actually have higher levels of viewing the world
1079
00:54:10.030 --> 00:54:13.929
as positive some, which it is. There's enough. And we
1080
00:54:13.969 --> 00:54:19.679
can grow the pie, not just materialistically, but psychologically and spiritually, right? Like,
1081
00:54:19.719 --> 00:54:22.960
your success does not hurt me. It actually benefits me.
1082
00:54:23.969 --> 00:54:28.010
We can all win. But more importantly, authentic people have
1083
00:54:28.349 --> 00:54:33.369
phenomenally better relationships. Because obviously, right? Because here's the thing.
1084
00:54:33.869 --> 00:54:36.869
As we said a while back, we want belonging. What
1085
00:54:36.889 --> 00:54:39.010
we end up giving into is fitting in.
1086
00:54:39.730 --> 00:54:43.739
This is so important. Thank you for explaining it like that.
1087
00:54:43.960 --> 00:54:46.179
Let's just take a quick break so our sponsors can
1088
00:54:46.199 --> 00:54:49.039
share a few words. And please... please share this with
1089
00:54:49.079 --> 00:54:52.539
people that you care about. Everybody deserves to live an
1090
00:54:52.739 --> 00:54:56.639
authentic life. And I love everything that I'm learning. I
1091
00:54:56.659 --> 00:54:59.190
feel so much more empowered and I know you do too.
1092
00:54:59.289 --> 00:55:01.610
So as you've been nodding along, thank you for sharing
1093
00:55:01.650 --> 00:55:04.150
this with people. Don't go anywhere. We have so much
1094
00:55:04.210 --> 00:55:07.449
more to unpack when we return. Stay with me.
1095
00:55:13.530 --> 00:55:16.250
The Chemist's Warehouse Fall Frenzy Mega Sale is now live.
1096
00:55:16.409 --> 00:55:18.670
Find up to half price off RRP on big brands
1097
00:55:18.809 --> 00:55:21.909
like John Frieda, Batiste and Aussie Hair Care or Solgar,
1098
00:55:21.929 --> 00:55:24.260
Me Today and Chewy Vice Vitamins. And find up to
1099
00:55:24.300 --> 00:55:28.420
half price off RRP on Emco Beauty, W7 and Rimmel Cosmetics.
1100
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.699
But hurry, sale must end September 20. Chemist's Warehouse, great
1101
00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:36.500
savings every day. With super values, real rewards prices, you
1102
00:55:36.539 --> 00:55:38.949
can now get weekly savings on thousands of brands you
1103
00:55:38.969 --> 00:55:40.550
know and love when you scan at the till.
1104
00:55:41.119 --> 00:55:44.179
All you have to do is simply download your Real Rewards.
1105
00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:46.679
App, scan the app at the till and get great
1106
00:55:46.719 --> 00:55:47.920
savings on your shopping.
1107
00:55:48.699 --> 00:55:50.710
New Real Rewards prices from Super Value.
1108
00:55:51.110 --> 00:55:52.090
Yes, you scan.
1109
00:55:53.949 --> 00:56:00.969
Sean here just got a home energy grant from SEAI. € 8, 000
1110
00:55:58.130 --> 00:56:01.010
for wall insulation. Sounds like he'll be warm and cosy
1111
00:56:01.050 --> 00:56:04.039
this winter. And SEAI wants to give a home energy
1112
00:56:04.079 --> 00:56:07.179
grant with your name on it too. Apply for yours today.
1113
00:56:07.500 --> 00:56:11.469
Search SEAI Home Energy Upgrades. Supported by the government of Ireland.
1114
00:56:11.780 --> 00:56:13.360
Eligibility terms and conditions apply.
1115
00:56:19.820 --> 00:56:21.739
Welcome back. It's your buddy Mel Robbins. And today you
1116
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:24.420
and I are learning all about living a more authentic
1117
00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.559
life from Dr. Todd Rose. So Todd, what is the
1118
00:56:27.659 --> 00:56:31.079
difference between belonging and fitting in?
1119
00:56:31.559 --> 00:56:37.539
Belonging is when you are recognized, accepted, and even loved
1120
00:56:38.030 --> 00:56:40.380
for who you are. So you have to do that
1121
00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:43.679
for yourself first, because no one's going to do that
1122
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:45.860
for you. But when you're in groups, and we've all
1123
00:56:45.969 --> 00:56:49.530
felt this, right? Like me with my grandmother, I knew
1124
00:56:49.550 --> 00:56:53.949
I was good enough. Like flaws and all, it didn't matter.
1125
00:56:54.369 --> 00:56:57.250
Like I didn't have to be somebody else, even in
1126
00:56:57.289 --> 00:57:00.769
a small way, for her to love me. When you
1127
00:57:00.829 --> 00:57:05.159
have that kind of relationship, there's nothing better in the world, okay?
1128
00:57:05.840 --> 00:57:10.960
Fitting in is you accept me if. You accept me if,
1129
00:57:11.659 --> 00:57:14.440
if I like the things you like, if I do
1130
00:57:14.500 --> 00:57:17.139
the things you want me to do, if I decide
1131
00:57:17.159 --> 00:57:20.300
to be a computer scientist instead of an artist. So
1132
00:57:20.360 --> 00:57:25.070
many of our relationships are built on that kind of if. And,
1133
00:57:25.530 --> 00:57:28.829
you know, just like when you're not physically healthy, you
1134
00:57:28.869 --> 00:57:31.989
forget what it feels like to be healthy. When we're
1135
00:57:32.050 --> 00:57:35.030
used to fitting in, we forget what it feels like
1136
00:57:35.070 --> 00:57:36.889
to truly belong. And I'll say this, and I'll say
1137
00:57:36.929 --> 00:57:40.659
this to anyone listening or viewing. You deserve to belong.
1138
00:57:41.360 --> 00:57:45.309
You should not accept the status of just fitting in.
1139
00:57:46.469 --> 00:57:49.030
It's not good enough. It doesn't lead to the place
1140
00:57:49.070 --> 00:57:51.269
that you want it to lead to. And it causes
1141
00:57:51.289 --> 00:57:53.110
a lot of harm to you and society.
1142
00:57:53.449 --> 00:57:57.980
What is the first step? Because I think as you're listening,
1143
00:57:58.880 --> 00:58:01.940
what you just said is both a wake-up call and
1144
00:58:01.980 --> 00:58:05.920
it can be a little crushing to your soul when
1145
00:58:05.980 --> 00:58:08.440
you recognize your whole life, all you've tried to do
1146
00:58:08.500 --> 00:58:08.849
is fit in.
1147
00:58:09.300 --> 00:58:10.519
Yeah.
1148
00:58:10.539 --> 00:58:13.659
And I know that everybody wants to feel like their
1149
00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:16.820
authentic self. Everybody wants to be proud of themselves. Like
1150
00:58:16.980 --> 00:58:18.860
you want to lay your head down on the pillow
1151
00:58:18.920 --> 00:58:21.199
at night and know that you did the best that
1152
00:58:21.239 --> 00:58:23.619
you could. You made the best decisions that you could,
1153
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:25.880
that you're proud of how you showed up, that you
1154
00:58:25.940 --> 00:58:30.909
had good intentions. That is the gold standard that you,
1155
00:58:31.429 --> 00:58:34.170
you know, it was a good day because you tried
1156
00:58:34.210 --> 00:58:35.829
the best that you could to be a good person.
1157
00:58:35.949 --> 00:58:40.079
And that starts with you being Making good decisions for
1158
00:58:40.099 --> 00:58:43.119
yourself and not self-silencing to fit in.
1159
00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:47.239
Here's the important part about authenticity. It is a process.
1160
00:58:47.519 --> 00:58:50.280
It's not a destination. There's no such thing as you
1161
00:58:50.300 --> 00:58:51.699
could put all the work you want in right now
1162
00:58:51.719 --> 00:58:54.239
and you're like, I'm done. That's not how it works.
1163
00:58:55.059 --> 00:58:57.840
Because a flourishing life is one where you grow and
1164
00:58:57.900 --> 00:59:00.940
change and discover and all that stuff. So even if
1165
00:59:00.980 --> 00:59:04.820
you were 100% right right now, if you lock that in,
1166
00:59:05.159 --> 00:59:09.079
you'd be inauthentic in the future. So the things that
1167
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:11.170
people need to understand is again, it's never too late.
1168
00:59:11.489 --> 00:59:14.329
This is what's amazing. All the benefits of authenticity, the
1169
00:59:14.369 --> 00:59:18.110
research shows, they accrue very quickly to you, no matter
1170
00:59:18.159 --> 00:59:20.760
how old you are, no matter where you're starting from.
1171
00:59:21.980 --> 00:59:23.940
It's pretty amazing. You just have to get started.
1172
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:24.539
Okay.
1173
00:59:24.760 --> 00:59:27.400
And here's the thing. There's two things from my perspective.
1174
00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:30.940
The first is getting a handle on what you think
1175
00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:31.579
you really believe.
1176
00:59:32.019 --> 00:59:35.030
How do you do that when you're like been gaslit
1177
00:59:35.110 --> 00:59:36.429
by all the noise?
1178
00:59:36.730 --> 00:59:40.250
There's a very simple step that I've used and I've
1179
00:59:40.289 --> 00:59:43.610
shared and people have used and it's worked. Ask yourself
1180
00:59:43.670 --> 00:59:46.599
why on things you believe you believe. Because when they're
1181
00:59:46.619 --> 00:59:50.139
your honest beliefs that you've arrived at, you know why.
1182
00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:53.429
I'll give you an example. I have a deep commitment,
1183
00:59:53.849 --> 00:59:57.510
like probably most people, to human rights. It might be
1184
00:59:57.590 --> 01:00:00.659
the most important concept to me of anything in the world,
1185
01:00:00.960 --> 01:00:04.880
that every individual has moral worth, and we are equal
1186
01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:08.179
to one another, and we are never, ever a means
1187
01:00:08.219 --> 01:00:10.659
to someone else's ends. That's how I want to be
1188
01:00:10.699 --> 01:00:12.739
viewed and treated. That's how I will view and treat
1189
01:00:12.800 --> 01:00:16.739
other people. Human rights flows from dignity. So I know
1190
01:00:16.780 --> 01:00:20.070
for sure I believe that. But you'll be shocked at
1191
01:00:20.210 --> 01:00:22.610
how many things you think you believe are just the
1192
01:00:22.690 --> 01:00:25.809
norms of your society that you've never really questioned because
1193
01:00:25.829 --> 01:00:29.389
you want to fit in. For me, didn't do very
1194
01:00:29.429 --> 01:00:33.619
well in school. That's an understatement. I failed out of
1195
01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:35.239
high school with a 0.9 GPA.
1196
01:00:35.239 --> 01:00:37.239
0.9? That's possible?
1197
01:00:37.260 --> 01:00:38.980
You have to work really hard to do that poorly.
1198
01:00:39.719 --> 01:00:42.590
I ended up failing out. A couple of months later,
1199
01:00:42.949 --> 01:00:45.110
my girlfriend at the time, who was my wife for
1200
01:00:45.110 --> 01:00:47.760
29 years— Found out she was pregnant. And this is
1201
01:00:47.780 --> 01:00:52.320
rural Utah. It's not something one does in rural Utah.
1202
01:00:52.880 --> 01:00:54.639
We were on welfare. We ended up with two kids
1203
01:00:55.579 --> 01:00:58.179
by the time I was 20, doing a string of
1204
01:00:58.260 --> 01:01:02.000
minimum wage jobs at a paper route at 4 a.m.
1205
01:01:02.300 --> 01:01:05.800
to supplement our income. We were selling blood plasma, you know,
1206
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:10.500
all the things you have to do. And recognizing rock bottom,
1207
01:01:11.320 --> 01:01:14.059
I was working at what was Circuit City, which they've
1208
01:01:14.079 --> 01:01:16.849
gone out of business now. Uh, and on my lunch break,
1209
01:01:16.869 --> 01:01:19.139
I didn't have any money. So I went over to
1210
01:01:19.159 --> 01:01:22.559
Barnes and Noble and I was perusing this self-help section.
1211
01:01:22.900 --> 01:01:25.760
I had like no self-esteem. No, you know, I'd lied
1212
01:01:25.780 --> 01:01:29.719
to myself a lot. Um, I knew, I knew something
1213
01:01:29.760 --> 01:01:32.909
had to change and I happened upon a book called
1214
01:01:32.949 --> 01:01:37.230
the six pillars of self-esteem and Nathaniel Brandon said, self-esteem
1215
01:01:37.269 --> 01:01:40.219
is not something you can directly act on. It's the
1216
01:01:40.260 --> 01:01:42.949
alignment of your beliefs and your behavior. And if your
1217
01:01:42.969 --> 01:01:46.849
behavior and beliefs don't align, you won't respect yourself. Why
1218
01:01:46.909 --> 01:01:50.269
would you? But this was the nugget for me that
1219
01:01:50.349 --> 01:01:54.769
completely changed my life. I had always assumed that my
1220
01:01:54.829 --> 01:01:57.909
beliefs were my beliefs and that my behavior was what
1221
01:01:57.949 --> 01:02:01.489
needed to change. But this book told me that's not true.
1222
01:02:02.619 --> 01:02:06.469
That you may not actually believe the things you believe
1223
01:02:06.719 --> 01:02:08.949
that you believe. And in my case, it was religious
1224
01:02:09.050 --> 01:02:12.949
in nature. I had tried so hard to align my
1225
01:02:12.989 --> 01:02:15.829
behaviors to a set of beliefs that came from my religion,
1226
01:02:16.820 --> 01:02:19.960
and I just failed a lot. And though those behaviors
1227
01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:24.800
weren't bad behaviors, they were just inconsistent. And I thought,
1228
01:02:25.239 --> 01:02:27.860
wait a minute. It could be my beliefs that are
1229
01:02:28.070 --> 01:02:30.050
the thing that's causing the problem. And so I spent
1230
01:02:30.070 --> 01:02:31.670
a lot of time thinking about, well, why do I
1231
01:02:31.710 --> 01:02:35.210
believe this? And I realized I didn't believe. And once
1232
01:02:35.269 --> 01:02:37.949
I recognized that and started on the path of thinking
1233
01:02:37.989 --> 01:02:41.179
about who am I, what do I believe, things got
1234
01:02:41.199 --> 01:02:45.300
a lot easier. A lot easier. Why? Because suddenly I
1235
01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:48.679
knew the root problem. I was constantly trying to get
1236
01:02:48.719 --> 01:02:50.619
my behavior to align, just like if you're trying to
1237
01:02:50.659 --> 01:02:53.420
conform to a group. constantly trying to, what am I
1238
01:02:53.440 --> 01:02:55.440
supposed to do now? What do we do? How do
1239
01:02:55.480 --> 01:02:59.840
I dress? What do I drink? What career do I choose?
1240
01:03:00.300 --> 01:03:04.000
And once I had permission to start questioning my own beliefs,
1241
01:03:04.780 --> 01:03:07.389
I was able to get on a different path. And
1242
01:03:07.570 --> 01:03:09.210
it never would have changed without that.
1243
01:03:09.809 --> 01:03:12.409
I think that's super profound. I think it's also crazy
1244
01:03:12.449 --> 01:03:16.469
inspiring that you went from there to becoming a graduate
1245
01:03:16.489 --> 01:03:19.130
school professor at Harvard and now running a think tank
1246
01:03:19.250 --> 01:03:22.320
and doing this deeply important work. And I was So
1247
01:03:22.389 --> 01:03:26.219
excited to have you on because I fundamentally refuse to
1248
01:03:26.260 --> 01:03:27.519
believe that we are this divided.
1249
01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:27.980
Yeah.
1250
01:03:28.199 --> 01:03:32.980
I fundamentally refuse to believe that people are unreasonable or
1251
01:03:33.019 --> 01:03:37.860
lack character. I also fundamentally refuse to give that much
1252
01:03:37.940 --> 01:03:39.550
power to all the noise.
1253
01:03:39.570 --> 01:03:40.610
Right.
1254
01:03:40.630 --> 01:03:42.329
And, you know, one of the things that I want
1255
01:03:42.369 --> 01:03:47.469
to hover on the authenticity piece, because when somebody walks
1256
01:03:47.530 --> 01:03:54.119
into a room that is very much authentically themselves, whether
1257
01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:59.050
they have on just a cool outfit or they have
1258
01:03:59.829 --> 01:04:03.329
energy about them or there's a kindness to them, whatever
1259
01:04:03.369 --> 01:04:05.510
it may be, you feel it.
1260
01:04:05.750 --> 01:04:07.570
The energy of that is unbelievable.
1261
01:04:07.610 --> 01:04:12.230
It is intoxicating. And it's not a level of arrogance.
1262
01:04:12.309 --> 01:04:16.960
There is something that I truly believe that we're all
1263
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:22.949
yearning for it and we're looking for someone To give
1264
01:04:23.030 --> 01:04:23.809
us the permission.
1265
01:04:23.849 --> 01:04:26.590
That's right. And they just, they're not trying to get
1266
01:04:26.670 --> 01:04:28.750
you to do something. They just, I'm going to be me,
1267
01:04:28.789 --> 01:04:30.889
you be you. Put it in different terms, like let them,
1268
01:04:30.949 --> 01:04:34.579
let me, right? And they're the embodiment of that. Some
1269
01:04:34.599 --> 01:04:38.699
things happen. Because we so deeply want that, we gravitate
1270
01:04:38.719 --> 01:04:40.480
toward the energy there is real.
1271
01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:43.519
So how do you cultivate that energy? You mentioned let
1272
01:04:43.559 --> 01:04:47.400
them and let me. And you also, when we were talking,
1273
01:04:47.519 --> 01:04:51.579
said that is a tool. That really helps you apply
1274
01:04:52.500 --> 01:04:56.099
this research and this data that let them, like, why
1275
01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.409
don't you explain it? Because how can you use those
1276
01:04:59.469 --> 01:05:02.269
two words, let them, and those two words, let me,
1277
01:05:02.289 --> 01:05:05.909
as a way for you to start to become more
1278
01:05:05.949 --> 01:05:07.030
authentically yourself?
1279
01:05:07.289 --> 01:05:08.650
Well, this is why I was so excited to talk
1280
01:05:08.670 --> 01:05:11.289
to you because my scientific research, the work we do
1281
01:05:11.349 --> 01:05:14.389
at Populous, my think tank is, I would say what
1282
01:05:14.429 --> 01:05:17.880
we've uncovered is the science behind let them, let me,
1283
01:05:18.769 --> 01:05:20.150
We talked a lot about the conformity and all the
1284
01:05:20.170 --> 01:05:24.730
problems there, but also the broader societal consequences of not
1285
01:05:24.849 --> 01:05:25.289
doing that.
1286
01:05:25.889 --> 01:05:26.110
Wow.
1287
01:05:26.230 --> 01:05:28.989
Right? So what do we know about how we shatter illusions,
1288
01:05:29.090 --> 01:05:34.500
how we get back to authenticity? And it's the practical
1289
01:05:34.539 --> 01:05:36.260
stuff you need to do to get on that path.
1290
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:36.719
Mm-hmm.
1291
01:05:37.210 --> 01:05:38.510
When I looked at it, when I read your book,
1292
01:05:38.789 --> 01:05:41.190
I was like, okay, this, if you just do this,
1293
01:05:41.510 --> 01:05:45.570
it's not easy. It's simple, but it's not easy, right?
1294
01:05:45.670 --> 01:05:47.940
And so bringing it to a level of getting people
1295
01:05:48.179 --> 01:05:51.880
on that journey. Again, authenticity is a journey. It's a process.
1296
01:05:52.059 --> 01:05:54.840
It's not a destination. You can start anytime, anywhere, no
1297
01:05:54.860 --> 01:05:57.340
matter how old you are, no matter what your circumstances.
1298
01:05:58.739 --> 01:06:02.050
Then if all we did, and I'll tell you why,
1299
01:06:03.130 --> 01:06:06.260
if you lean into let them, I mean, you framed
1300
01:06:06.300 --> 01:06:08.579
a lot, and I think it's right, around how miserable
1301
01:06:08.619 --> 01:06:10.760
we get when we try to control everybody else. But
1302
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.639
it goes a little further because as we start to
1303
01:06:13.659 --> 01:06:17.480
participate in that sort of like, you should believe what
1304
01:06:17.539 --> 01:06:21.079
I'm saying too. And what's funny about collective illusions, and
1305
01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:22.619
this is one of those like, I could not believe this.
1306
01:06:23.019 --> 01:06:26.360
So once you start lying about your views, the research
1307
01:06:26.400 --> 01:06:29.340
is pretty clear. You start to lean into that. You
1308
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:30.570
become an enforcer of it.
1309
01:06:30.579 --> 01:06:32.199
Because you don't want to admit you're wrong?
1310
01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:32.519
Yes.
1311
01:06:32.639 --> 01:06:34.199
And because you always think people are going to find
1312
01:06:34.219 --> 01:06:36.750
me out. Because I know I'm lying. It's called the
1313
01:06:36.789 --> 01:06:39.570
illusion of transparency. They think everyone can tell that I'm
1314
01:06:39.630 --> 01:06:42.730
not really a true believer. And so it turns out
1315
01:06:42.809 --> 01:06:46.030
that people who lie about their views have a high
1316
01:06:46.070 --> 01:06:49.179
probability to become enforcers of that view on other people.
1317
01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:51.460
I'll give you a concrete example. Like if I hear,
1318
01:06:51.980 --> 01:06:55.119
every time I hear a pastor who's anti-gay now, I'm like,
1319
01:06:55.320 --> 01:06:58.230
they're probably gay. The number of times that just turns
1320
01:06:58.269 --> 01:07:00.489
out to be true, I'm like, yeah, you're protesting a
1321
01:07:00.489 --> 01:07:03.969
bit much, right? But once you're hiding that part of yourself,
1322
01:07:04.650 --> 01:07:06.829
you start to become the person that literally leads the
1323
01:07:06.889 --> 01:07:09.789
witch hunt to prove like, no, look, I'm a true believer.
1324
01:07:10.590 --> 01:07:15.030
And so don't be that person, right? Because the let
1325
01:07:15.090 --> 01:07:17.329
them part of it is the more you're seeking to
1326
01:07:17.369 --> 01:07:19.860
control their people, not just their behavior, but their beliefs,
1327
01:07:20.530 --> 01:07:23.699
you are leading them down a path of self-silencing and
1328
01:07:24.449 --> 01:07:27.130
that will be catastrophic for them. But now you also
1329
01:07:27.170 --> 01:07:29.340
know it's catastrophic for all of us.
1330
01:07:29.750 --> 01:07:32.829
Well, the other application that I see based on everything
1331
01:07:32.869 --> 01:07:38.730
you shared is that very profound difference between feeling a
1332
01:07:38.769 --> 01:07:42.369
sense of belonging versus an obsession with trying to fit in.
1333
01:07:43.289 --> 01:07:46.340
And to me, if you could speak a little bit
1334
01:07:46.389 --> 01:07:49.780
about how the let them and the let me really
1335
01:07:50.139 --> 01:07:53.789
gives you a tool to notice those moments where you're
1336
01:07:53.829 --> 01:07:56.989
so scared of other people's opinion or you're so seeking
1337
01:07:57.110 --> 01:08:01.340
fitting in that you cut off access to authenticity and belonging.
1338
01:08:01.380 --> 01:08:04.480
That's right. And so we did the let them side, right?
1339
01:08:04.500 --> 01:08:08.170
Because you are literally making it less likely that the
1340
01:08:08.210 --> 01:08:11.329
people around you can live authentic lives. You talk about
1341
01:08:11.550 --> 01:08:14.449
this so well in the book. Like, the kid's like, really? Okay,
1342
01:08:14.809 --> 01:08:17.340
for the dance you're going to? Really? You haven't? Okay,
1343
01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:18.960
they want to wear certain things. They want to do
1344
01:08:18.979 --> 01:08:22.020
these things. It's like, let them. Because part of that is,
1345
01:08:22.399 --> 01:08:24.560
let them be their authentic self.
1346
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:25.050
Yes.
1347
01:08:25.960 --> 01:08:29.689
Yes, your need to control is actually teaching other people
1348
01:08:29.729 --> 01:08:32.949
that they have to fit in. And you are squashing
1349
01:08:33.029 --> 01:08:34.470
somebody else's authenticity.
1350
01:08:34.529 --> 01:08:35.069
Exactly right.
1351
01:08:35.170 --> 01:08:37.850
So it's how you stop yourself from making people conform.
1352
01:08:37.890 --> 01:08:40.050
Correct. And then you flip it around and the let me.
1353
01:08:40.069 --> 01:08:44.659
I deserve to be authentic. And so that flip side,
1354
01:08:44.760 --> 01:08:46.439
if I'm going to give that same grace to other
1355
01:08:46.479 --> 01:08:50.060
people now, I owe it to myself to give myself
1356
01:08:50.119 --> 01:08:53.920
that same grace. I deserve to belong. I don't need
1357
01:08:53.939 --> 01:08:58.460
to settle for for fitting in right i deserve all
1358
01:08:58.500 --> 01:09:02.000
the benefits that come from being my truest self and
1359
01:09:02.039 --> 01:09:06.520
i shouldn't compromise that just because i believe other people
1360
01:09:06.560 --> 01:09:09.859
want something different and again when collective illusions are layered
1361
01:09:09.899 --> 01:09:12.100
into that that thing you're about to like give up
1362
01:09:12.140 --> 01:09:15.760
your authenticity for they don't even want Like, so what
1363
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:16.319
are we doing?
1364
01:09:17.060 --> 01:09:18.979
I just want to say I was kind of blown
1365
01:09:19.020 --> 01:09:24.220
away because when I first started using let them first,
1366
01:09:24.340 --> 01:09:26.920
it was really to stop trying to control everybody so
1367
01:09:27.340 --> 01:09:29.819
that I wasn't so stressed out all the time.
1368
01:09:29.979 --> 01:09:30.140
Right.
1369
01:09:30.859 --> 01:09:33.800
But then it became very clear how my default was
1370
01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:37.229
to fit in. My default was to seek approval. My
1371
01:09:37.279 --> 01:09:40.210
default was to make everybody else happy. My default was
1372
01:09:40.270 --> 01:09:44.619
to buy into the collective illusion of And allow that
1373
01:09:44.800 --> 01:09:47.810
to dictate what I do or don't do, like navigating
1374
01:09:47.850 --> 01:09:50.670
your life based on everybody else. And you're telling us
1375
01:09:51.390 --> 01:09:54.489
all of the things that you believe everybody else believes,
1376
01:09:54.909 --> 01:10:00.520
they're largely wrong. And we're all desperate for somebody to say, hey,
1377
01:10:01.229 --> 01:10:03.449
it's time to just stand up and be authentic. It's
1378
01:10:03.520 --> 01:10:05.779
time for you to stop trying to fit in. And
1379
01:10:05.800 --> 01:10:07.500
it's time for you to make decisions and live your
1380
01:10:07.520 --> 01:10:10.060
life in a way that really aligns with you. And
1381
01:10:10.100 --> 01:10:13.449
I hadn't thought about the let me part truly as
1382
01:10:13.489 --> 01:10:16.229
a tool for authenticity and courage in that way.
1383
01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:18.560
And that's how it resonated with me, which isn't that funny?
1384
01:10:19.359 --> 01:10:24.159
And if you read all of our research and you realize, wait,
1385
01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:28.000
so if I let them be their authentic self, and
1386
01:10:28.020 --> 01:10:31.880
we do that at scale, what kind of society would
1387
01:10:31.899 --> 01:10:32.239
we have?
1388
01:10:33.300 --> 01:10:35.659
Well, see, I worry that if we let people be
1389
01:10:35.699 --> 01:10:40.649
their authentic self, that we would have a runaway train
1390
01:10:41.470 --> 01:10:44.890
Of people who are selfish and not conscientious and who
1391
01:10:44.930 --> 01:10:49.100
are chasing fame and profit and trashing human beings for
1392
01:10:49.220 --> 01:10:52.539
all the tech giants and that bots would run the world.
1393
01:10:52.699 --> 01:10:57.060
And what you're now teaching me is that my belief
1394
01:10:57.159 --> 01:11:00.350
that if I just let people run wild, the worst
1395
01:11:00.390 --> 01:11:03.729
of humanity would rise to the top. And you're telling me, Mel.
1396
01:11:04.310 --> 01:11:04.689
Not true.
1397
01:11:05.590 --> 01:11:06.149
What is true?
1398
01:11:06.250 --> 01:11:07.710
Go back to the success index.
1399
01:11:08.090 --> 01:11:08.409
Okay.
1400
01:11:08.430 --> 01:11:12.000
The private index. highest aspirations we have for the lives
1401
01:11:12.100 --> 01:11:17.930
we want to live ourselves. Remember, top trade-off priority. I
1402
01:11:17.970 --> 01:11:20.090
want to do work that has a positive impact on
1403
01:11:20.149 --> 01:11:23.670
other people. I want to be trustworthy. I want to
1404
01:11:23.689 --> 01:11:26.710
have a family. I want to be good to other people.
1405
01:11:26.729 --> 01:11:30.649
I want to be involved in my community. I want
1406
01:11:30.680 --> 01:11:34.079
to achieve on things that matter. I want an education.
1407
01:11:34.100 --> 01:11:37.520
I want these things. This is what people would do
1408
01:11:38.600 --> 01:11:42.220
if we leaned in to let them let me. And
1409
01:11:42.380 --> 01:11:44.220
the only reason we're afraid of it is because we've
1410
01:11:44.319 --> 01:11:46.840
fallen for the illusions, right? We've been with this illusion
1411
01:11:46.859 --> 01:11:49.550
for a while and it's like, oh, I mean, it's funny.
1412
01:11:49.979 --> 01:11:54.670
We ask people about trust privately. Are you trustworthy? 93%
1413
01:11:54.670 --> 01:11:57.670
of people said, of course I'm trustworthy and I want that.
1414
01:11:57.710 --> 01:12:00.510
It matters to me. What do you think other people
1415
01:12:00.550 --> 01:12:02.229
would say? Well, no, no, no. Other people don't care
1416
01:12:02.250 --> 01:12:05.060
about being trustworthy. They're not trustworthy. And you're like, yeah,
1417
01:12:05.140 --> 01:12:07.779
it's a massive illusion. And so if I'm looking around thinking,
1418
01:12:08.340 --> 01:12:11.140
Other people don't even care about being trustworthy. And I
1419
01:12:11.199 --> 01:12:15.880
think they all want fame and the zero-sum winner-take-all. They
1420
01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:19.470
will step on my thing to get to me. Why
1421
01:12:19.510 --> 01:12:22.729
would I want to let them be able to live
1422
01:12:22.789 --> 01:12:25.649
their authentic lives? Because if that were who they really are,
1423
01:12:25.670 --> 01:12:27.850
that would be awful. And so what we end up
1424
01:12:27.909 --> 01:12:30.789
doing is having to control everybody. And that's true in
1425
01:12:30.810 --> 01:12:33.619
our interpersonal lives that you wrote about. It's also true
1426
01:12:34.039 --> 01:12:36.529
all the way up to our political lives. where we've
1427
01:12:36.800 --> 01:12:40.640
given up on these fundamental values, like, you know what?
1428
01:12:40.979 --> 01:12:42.899
You live your life, I'll live mine, as long as
1429
01:12:42.920 --> 01:12:45.840
we're not hurting each other. Like, we've lost a willingness
1430
01:12:45.859 --> 01:12:49.210
to invest in one another because we believe the illusion.
1431
01:12:49.930 --> 01:12:51.989
Where did all this lack of trust come from? I
1432
01:12:52.010 --> 01:12:53.289
know you have a story.
1433
01:12:53.930 --> 01:12:57.350
So social trust, which is trust in strangers, right? The
1434
01:12:57.390 --> 01:13:00.359
single best predictor of the health and flourishing of democracies.
1435
01:13:01.069 --> 01:13:02.229
At the end of the day, if we talk about
1436
01:13:02.270 --> 01:13:04.649
trust in institutions, I don't need to trust the government.
1437
01:13:04.989 --> 01:13:08.189
I need to have confidence that they'll do what they say.
1438
01:13:08.210 --> 01:13:12.449
So accountability, transparency. The only trust that matters is that
1439
01:13:12.489 --> 01:13:17.100
we trust each other. So it predicts almost everything that
1440
01:13:17.140 --> 01:13:23.100
matters collectively. And ever since we implemented in the 1930s
1441
01:13:23.140 --> 01:13:27.500
in the United States, scientific management, Frederick Taylor, which is
1442
01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:31.270
where we got standardization to everything, everything became standardized. He
1443
01:13:31.310 --> 01:13:33.380
invented the concept of a manager. So you just do
1444
01:13:33.399 --> 01:13:34.920
the job I'm telling you. You don't get any say
1445
01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:37.880
in what you do in the name of efficiency. Every
1446
01:13:37.939 --> 01:13:41.300
single generation since has had lower social trust than the
1447
01:13:41.340 --> 01:13:44.520
preceding generation. Right now in America, we have the lowest
1448
01:13:44.779 --> 01:13:46.539
levels of social trust ever recorded.
1449
01:13:47.510 --> 01:13:49.069
Now, is that true or is that an illusion? You
1450
01:13:49.090 --> 01:13:49.569
know what I'm saying?
1451
01:13:49.590 --> 01:13:51.850
It's true. It's even worse in private right now than
1452
01:13:51.890 --> 01:13:52.510
it is in public.
1453
01:13:52.630 --> 01:13:53.069
Oh, no.
1454
01:13:53.189 --> 01:13:54.260
Now, here's the good news, though.
1455
01:13:54.600 --> 01:13:54.899
Okay.
1456
01:13:55.340 --> 01:13:56.819
And this is what matters. If I could wave a
1457
01:13:56.840 --> 01:13:58.460
magic wand and say, what's the one thing I could
1458
01:13:58.500 --> 01:14:02.539
change about this country besides, and again, honestly, everybody leaning
1459
01:14:02.579 --> 01:14:04.699
in to let them and let me because the illusions
1460
01:14:04.720 --> 01:14:07.189
would have nowhere to hide. And we'd obviously see that
1461
01:14:07.229 --> 01:14:09.470
we have a lot in common and that people trusted.
1462
01:14:10.010 --> 01:14:13.409
It's this illusion of trust. Okay. What's interesting in our data?
1463
01:14:14.010 --> 01:14:16.689
So when you look across the world, like Scandinavian countries
1464
01:14:16.710 --> 01:14:19.109
have very high levels of social trust. And you can
1465
01:14:19.130 --> 01:14:21.909
see the cohesion, the trust in each other, the investment
1466
01:14:21.930 --> 01:14:24.590
in each other. You only have to get above 50%
1467
01:14:24.590 --> 01:14:26.909
social trust for that to kick in. When a majority
1468
01:14:26.930 --> 01:14:29.750
of people believe a majority of people in their society
1469
01:14:29.789 --> 01:14:33.420
are trustworthy, good things start to happen. When you dip
1470
01:14:33.560 --> 01:14:37.300
into like the 30s, it spirals the other way, right?
1471
01:14:37.359 --> 01:14:39.840
We start to need to control each other. We're in
1472
01:14:39.859 --> 01:14:43.220
the low, mid 30s right now, okay? In our data, though,
1473
01:14:43.279 --> 01:14:46.699
in private, here's what I think is fascinating. If you
1474
01:14:46.720 --> 01:14:51.119
cut the data by whether you're self-silencing, people that self-silence
1475
01:14:51.420 --> 01:14:56.100
have the lowest levels of social trust ever. They are
1476
01:14:56.659 --> 01:14:59.340
in the low 30s percent of people who believe other
1477
01:14:59.380 --> 01:15:02.439
people can be trusted, okay? If you're one of the
1478
01:15:02.560 --> 01:15:07.510
one-third that hasn't self-silenced, they have levels of social trust
1479
01:15:07.909 --> 01:15:12.569
that rival Scandinavian countries. Hmm. So there's something about feeling
1480
01:15:12.609 --> 01:15:15.399
like you're in a society where you can't even say
1481
01:15:15.439 --> 01:15:19.079
your opinion. Why would I trust everybody else if I
1482
01:15:19.140 --> 01:15:23.220
feel like I can't be me? So this issue of
1483
01:15:23.300 --> 01:15:26.920
needing to reclaim an authenticity, it might be the single
1484
01:15:27.000 --> 01:15:30.380
most important thing you could do to heal your society
1485
01:15:30.640 --> 01:15:33.239
because it is the fastest way to increase social trust.
1486
01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:35.460
Well, I can give an example that came to mind
1487
01:15:36.340 --> 01:15:39.100
as you were talking about plummeting trust. If you have
1488
01:15:39.159 --> 01:15:44.949
ever had Any kind of tragedy hit your community, whether
1489
01:15:44.970 --> 01:15:48.329
it's a fire or a flood or something else, what happens?
1490
01:15:49.479 --> 01:15:52.340
People reveal who they are at their core. Like you
1491
01:15:52.380 --> 01:15:55.720
have some illness in a family, family members that are
1492
01:15:55.739 --> 01:15:58.640
divided on politics that haven't talked for two years, all
1493
01:15:58.659 --> 01:16:03.359
of a sudden come in because it reduces us to
1494
01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:07.779
just our core values in a moment. Where it's all
1495
01:16:07.840 --> 01:16:08.640
hands on deck.
1496
01:16:08.880 --> 01:16:10.770
It's, you're exactly right. Like I had a, you know,
1497
01:16:10.789 --> 01:16:12.689
a couple of years ago, I lost my wife, uh,
1498
01:16:12.689 --> 01:16:16.770
20 years and it was unbelievable to see people who
1499
01:16:16.890 --> 01:16:20.029
I thought I had beefs with, right? Because some of the, we,
1500
01:16:20.069 --> 01:16:24.180
we'd had challenges. It doesn't matter anymore. There's this common
1501
01:16:24.220 --> 01:16:27.500
humanity that comes together and you're right. You see this
1502
01:16:27.680 --> 01:16:31.739
in these, uh, trauma and tragedy. We reveal who we are.
1503
01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:32.199
Hmm.
1504
01:16:32.430 --> 01:16:32.649
Okay.
1505
01:16:33.050 --> 01:16:33.989
Why is that true?
1506
01:16:34.390 --> 01:16:38.649
Because the norm around tragedy, right? We have norms in
1507
01:16:38.689 --> 01:16:41.470
this country and other countries that it's all hands on deck.
1508
01:16:41.550 --> 01:16:44.529
We just rally. That's what we do. Okay. I was
1509
01:16:44.569 --> 01:16:47.489
a little worried some of the last unnatural disasters in
1510
01:16:47.529 --> 01:16:50.090
the country when the first thing we saw was the
1511
01:16:50.130 --> 01:16:53.680
politicization of it, the blaming right off the bat. But
1512
01:16:53.699 --> 01:16:56.500
then that dissolved pretty quick at the ground level into
1513
01:16:56.640 --> 01:16:59.359
we need to help each other. Because as human beings,
1514
01:16:59.420 --> 01:17:02.840
we empathize. That's one of our magical traits, right? We
1515
01:17:02.880 --> 01:17:05.510
can put ourselves in other people's shoes. We can think
1516
01:17:05.550 --> 01:17:07.470
about how we would want to be treated. And we
1517
01:17:07.489 --> 01:17:10.449
can activate compassion and act on it. When we see
1518
01:17:10.510 --> 01:17:13.810
people in those times of need, it reveals what our
1519
01:17:13.829 --> 01:17:16.909
real character is. Imagine what it would have been like
1520
01:17:17.270 --> 01:17:18.270
if the illusion was correct.
1521
01:17:18.560 --> 01:17:20.619
That nobody cares, we don't trust you, nobody shows up.
1522
01:17:20.699 --> 01:17:23.760
Nobody shows up. And the thing right now, that's not
1523
01:17:23.819 --> 01:17:27.899
the case. But if we don't recognize this problem and
1524
01:17:27.939 --> 01:17:31.149
take some responsibility for it, it could become the case.
1525
01:17:31.689 --> 01:17:35.329
Do you truly believe, based on all of this data,
1526
01:17:36.170 --> 01:17:40.890
that if every single one of us as an individual
1527
01:17:41.510 --> 01:17:47.489
were to really embrace the facts that when it comes
1528
01:17:47.569 --> 01:17:50.909
to the things that we all value as human beings,
1529
01:17:51.930 --> 01:17:55.039
we all value the same 80% of things. So we
1530
01:17:55.079 --> 01:17:58.439
are all so much more alike. We want the same
1531
01:17:58.500 --> 01:18:01.079
things for ourselves and each other. If we were to
1532
01:18:01.319 --> 01:18:04.520
operate with that and then we were to go into
1533
01:18:04.579 --> 01:18:08.810
our day-to-day lives and say my only job is to
1534
01:18:09.229 --> 01:18:11.729
let other people be themselves and be who they are
1535
01:18:11.890 --> 01:18:16.460
and with the presumption that underneath it they value character.
1536
01:18:17.039 --> 01:18:20.510
Underneath it, they want meaningful work. Underneath it, they want
1537
01:18:20.979 --> 01:18:24.329
better for their friends and for their family. That if
1538
01:18:24.449 --> 01:18:28.470
we operate like that, and then we also say to ourselves,
1539
01:18:28.670 --> 01:18:32.949
my job is to then show up and make decisions
1540
01:18:34.229 --> 01:18:36.369
with the information I have the best that I can
1541
01:18:36.449 --> 01:18:39.569
day to day that really align what I truly value.
1542
01:18:39.609 --> 01:18:42.649
Like to give myself that permission and to find the
1543
01:18:42.729 --> 01:18:45.350
courage to do it. whether it's how you post on
1544
01:18:45.390 --> 01:18:47.510
social or whether you talk at work or whether you
1545
01:18:47.550 --> 01:18:50.840
ski or not this season, whether you want to live
1546
01:18:50.880 --> 01:18:52.739
where you live, whether you want to go to Sizzlers
1547
01:18:52.840 --> 01:18:58.199
or not, that you just start to slowly calibrate your
1548
01:18:58.279 --> 01:19:02.770
life back toward the things that you know deeply matter
1549
01:19:02.789 --> 01:19:06.729
to you. Like simply volunteering in a place in your
1550
01:19:06.770 --> 01:19:08.949
community would make you feel more authentic.
1551
01:19:08.970 --> 01:19:09.039
Yes.
1552
01:19:09.770 --> 01:19:13.600
Changing your major could make you feel more authentic. Asking
1553
01:19:13.609 --> 01:19:15.819
your brother or sister for a little help with mom
1554
01:19:15.859 --> 01:19:18.539
and dad because you've self-silenced would make you feel a
1555
01:19:18.539 --> 01:19:20.619
little authentic. It doesn't have to do with what they
1556
01:19:20.720 --> 01:19:21.220
are going to say.
1557
01:19:21.239 --> 01:19:21.720
That's right.
1558
01:19:22.520 --> 01:19:24.310
You may have a collective illusion that they're not going
1559
01:19:24.329 --> 01:19:28.310
to do anything because you think everybody's selfish now. But
1560
01:19:28.329 --> 01:19:31.770
that's the noise. The truth is deep down, people care
1561
01:19:31.829 --> 01:19:34.989
about the same things. it starts with you, you really
1562
01:19:35.029 --> 01:19:37.890
believe that that's what's going to turn this all around.
1563
01:19:37.930 --> 01:19:40.569
Yeah. Let me give you a historical example when I say,
1564
01:19:40.590 --> 01:19:43.899
because it feels like the problems are too big.
1565
01:19:44.310 --> 01:19:45.100
Yes.
1566
01:19:45.199 --> 01:19:47.100
They must require these big solutions.
1567
01:19:47.180 --> 01:19:47.500
Yes.
1568
01:19:47.579 --> 01:19:50.020
It's not true. Let me give you an example. As
1569
01:19:50.039 --> 01:19:52.100
a reformed academic, I'm going to lean into a bigger
1570
01:19:52.180 --> 01:19:53.239
example just once.
1571
01:19:53.539 --> 01:19:53.680
Please.
1572
01:19:53.699 --> 01:19:55.859
But I think it's important. When the problem is a
1573
01:19:55.880 --> 01:19:59.939
collective illusion— And you pursue the right strategy, which is
1574
01:19:59.979 --> 01:20:03.899
this authenticity strategy, right? It's not about persuading. It's about revealing,
1575
01:20:04.439 --> 01:20:08.210
showing people. The kind of social change that can happen,
1576
01:20:09.649 --> 01:20:11.470
how fast it can happen, how big it can happen.
1577
01:20:12.310 --> 01:20:17.069
The best example of this is the Velvet Revolution in Czechoslovakia.
1578
01:20:17.550 --> 01:20:20.449
This has puzzled historians for a long time. It happened
1579
01:20:20.510 --> 01:20:25.020
in the late 80s. Czechoslovakia had been under communist rule
1580
01:20:25.380 --> 01:20:28.060
for a long time, just brutal. Other countries had tried
1581
01:20:28.140 --> 01:20:32.439
to revolt. Hungary, all these bloody massacres as a result.
1582
01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:35.699
The Velvet Revolution is famous because it's the only time
1583
01:20:35.720 --> 01:20:40.560
that people have overthrown a communist regime without a single
1584
01:20:40.600 --> 01:20:43.149
person dying, without a single shot being fired.
1585
01:20:43.810 --> 01:20:44.029
Okay?
1586
01:20:44.250 --> 01:20:44.489
Wow.
1587
01:20:44.569 --> 01:20:46.869
And people are like, how does that happen? It's an anomaly.
1588
01:20:47.149 --> 01:20:49.170
The best part about it is who led it, and
1589
01:20:49.189 --> 01:20:50.510
this is how you'll get to the secret of it,
1590
01:20:51.409 --> 01:20:54.180
is a person named Václav Havel. And I'm going to
1591
01:20:54.220 --> 01:20:57.880
say right now, for everyone listening or watching, if you
1592
01:20:57.899 --> 01:21:00.619
go online, you can download for free. He wrote a
1593
01:21:00.659 --> 01:21:04.220
manifesto about this called The Power of the Powerless. That is,
1594
01:21:04.739 --> 01:21:07.619
will chill you to the bones. It will sound like
1595
01:21:07.659 --> 01:21:11.640
he's writing about our time today, but he writes about
1596
01:21:11.699 --> 01:21:14.399
how he discovered the real problem in their society was
1597
01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:20.220
this collective illusion. So he's had no military experience. He
1598
01:21:20.260 --> 01:21:23.470
wasn't a politician. He was a poet and a playwright.
1599
01:21:24.949 --> 01:21:29.090
And he was anti-communist, but he decides he writes this
1600
01:21:29.649 --> 01:21:32.250
play called The Garden Party. And it was a satire
1601
01:21:32.270 --> 01:21:35.939
about communism. It was so subtle that the censors didn't
1602
01:21:35.979 --> 01:21:37.899
even know they were being made fun of, okay? So
1603
01:21:37.939 --> 01:21:41.619
he puts it on. It becomes a runaway hit. It's
1604
01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:44.220
like the Hamilton of the time there. It's sold out
1605
01:21:44.260 --> 01:21:48.729
every night. He attends every single play. And he doesn't
1606
01:21:48.750 --> 01:21:51.909
watch the play. He watches the audience. And he said,
1607
01:21:51.930 --> 01:21:54.829
they laughed at all the right parts. They laughed at
1608
01:21:54.850 --> 01:21:57.430
things that you would not find funny if you truly
1609
01:21:57.470 --> 01:21:59.649
believed in communism. And he writes in The Power of
1610
01:21:59.670 --> 01:22:03.430
the Powerless that he recognizes the fundamental problem was not
1611
01:22:03.470 --> 01:22:06.329
that the people of Czechoslovakia believed in communism. It's that
1612
01:22:06.350 --> 01:22:09.550
they believed that they believed. It was a collective illusion.
1613
01:22:09.569 --> 01:22:11.649
I mean, I don't know how he got there, but
1614
01:22:11.689 --> 01:22:15.909
it's amazing he figured it out. The solution then was
1615
01:22:15.989 --> 01:22:20.340
not weapons. It was not even political. It was authenticity.
1616
01:22:20.699 --> 01:22:24.689
He called it authenticity and personal responsibility. And here's what
1617
01:22:24.699 --> 01:22:26.949
he did. He said, well, then the answer is we've
1618
01:22:26.989 --> 01:22:29.949
got to create ways for people to start to be
1619
01:22:30.029 --> 01:22:32.850
comfortable living in truth again, because we've become way too
1620
01:22:32.909 --> 01:22:34.050
comfortable living in the lie.
1621
01:22:34.229 --> 01:22:34.430
Okay.
1622
01:22:34.810 --> 01:22:38.090
So he starts what he called the small works. How
1623
01:22:38.109 --> 01:22:40.380
do we help people start to lean into their authentic
1624
01:22:40.420 --> 01:22:44.000
selves in ways that weren't risky to begin with? Literally
1625
01:22:44.100 --> 01:22:47.369
created a literary magazine so people could publish poetry. They
1626
01:22:47.390 --> 01:22:50.510
did gardening. They did all these things. People mocked him,
1627
01:22:51.029 --> 01:22:54.079
mocked him. Like even people who, his fellow revolutionaries were like,
1628
01:22:54.180 --> 01:22:57.960
this is so naive. They have all the guns. You're
1629
01:22:57.979 --> 01:23:01.859
going to defeat them with authenticity and personal responsibility? But
1630
01:23:01.880 --> 01:23:05.600
they did. And here's what's crazy. Nobody saw it coming.
1631
01:23:07.010 --> 01:23:10.930
The CIA completely missed it. The KGB missed it entirely.
1632
01:23:11.470 --> 01:23:15.970
Even Havel himself didn't appreciate how fast it could change
1633
01:23:16.029 --> 01:23:18.470
when it was an illusion. Just a few months before
1634
01:23:18.750 --> 01:23:22.630
the student protest that led 12 days of protest, government falls.
1635
01:23:22.989 --> 01:23:25.689
He's interviewed in an international magazine and he's trying to
1636
01:23:25.750 --> 01:23:28.789
rally the troops. And he's like, look, revolutions take time.
1637
01:23:29.869 --> 01:23:32.729
You have to be committed. He's like, look, I probably
1638
01:23:32.750 --> 01:23:34.869
won't even be alive to see the end of this,
1639
01:23:35.050 --> 01:23:39.109
but I am in it, right? Three months later, he
1640
01:23:39.149 --> 01:23:42.529
was the first democratically elected president of a free Czechoslovakia.
1641
01:23:43.170 --> 01:23:45.250
That's what I mean when I say when the problem
1642
01:23:45.270 --> 01:23:48.489
is an illusion, two things, only we can solve it.
1643
01:23:49.149 --> 01:23:52.649
It didn't require somebody from on high telling us something.
1644
01:23:53.020 --> 01:23:56.260
It was the everyday people learning to live in truth
1645
01:23:57.300 --> 01:24:01.020
in small ways that start to build habit that lead
1646
01:24:01.119 --> 01:24:04.800
to a, we believe we believe this now, right? And
1647
01:24:04.810 --> 01:24:06.409
I think about it, I think about that story all
1648
01:24:06.449 --> 01:24:08.659
the time because I think if a poet can overthrow
1649
01:24:08.739 --> 01:24:12.479
communism under a collective illusion, think what you can do
1650
01:24:12.640 --> 01:24:15.279
in your own life. Think what we can do together.
1651
01:24:15.659 --> 01:24:18.319
I promise you that Power of the Powerless, it's free.
1652
01:24:18.659 --> 01:24:23.500
It's like 80 pages. It is unbelievable. It is, never forget,
1653
01:24:23.699 --> 01:24:27.119
like this thing that you want more than anything, to
1654
01:24:27.199 --> 01:24:30.210
be authentic. And you should want it. It's like almost
1655
01:24:30.350 --> 01:24:32.390
magical in what it does for you and for us.
1656
01:24:32.750 --> 01:24:35.750
Is the thing that you should do for yourself. And again,
1657
01:24:36.069 --> 01:24:38.840
it is the most important thing you could do to
1658
01:24:38.880 --> 01:24:39.819
heal society.
1659
01:24:40.340 --> 01:24:40.979
Or your family.
1660
01:24:41.140 --> 01:24:41.779
Your family.
1661
01:24:41.800 --> 01:24:42.220
Or your community.
1662
01:24:42.279 --> 01:24:42.699
Your loved ones.
1663
01:24:42.720 --> 01:24:43.220
Or your kids.
1664
01:24:43.340 --> 01:24:44.560
Your relationships.
1665
01:24:45.039 --> 01:24:45.239
Yeah.
1666
01:24:45.819 --> 01:24:48.579
It's a journey. You say this all the time, right?
1667
01:24:48.720 --> 01:24:50.539
I think we overestimate what we can do in the
1668
01:24:50.579 --> 01:24:53.510
short term and we underestimate what can happen later. More time?
1669
01:24:53.520 --> 01:24:54.029
A long time.
1670
01:24:54.069 --> 01:24:54.310
Yeah.
1671
01:24:54.689 --> 01:24:58.449
And we also underestimate the power of these small micro changes.
1672
01:24:58.510 --> 01:24:59.949
And you talk a lot in your work about the
1673
01:24:59.989 --> 01:25:00.810
micro changes.
1674
01:25:00.890 --> 01:25:01.670
It's all that matters.
1675
01:25:02.289 --> 01:25:04.229
And it could mean speaking up at work. It could
1676
01:25:04.260 --> 01:25:07.520
mean going to church this weekend. It could mean volunteering
1677
01:25:07.539 --> 01:25:10.460
in your community. It could mean picking up a book
1678
01:25:11.180 --> 01:25:14.380
and getting back into reading fiction instead of scrolling on
1679
01:25:14.420 --> 01:25:15.060
social media.
1680
01:25:15.300 --> 01:25:17.770
Find the thing that connects you back to who you
1681
01:25:17.810 --> 01:25:20.489
believe you are right now. And it doesn't have to
1682
01:25:20.529 --> 01:25:24.479
be these massive life-changing things. In fact, it rarely ever
1683
01:25:24.539 --> 01:25:30.310
requires that. Again, if you can literally transform a tyrannical
1684
01:25:30.369 --> 01:25:33.850
society into a free society on the back of authenticity,
1685
01:25:34.590 --> 01:25:35.970
like you can change your life.
1686
01:25:36.550 --> 01:25:41.289
What is one thing that you could challenge us to
1687
01:25:41.310 --> 01:25:44.319
do based on all the research, the power of authenticity
1688
01:25:45.699 --> 01:25:48.260
to do this week? What would it be?
1689
01:25:49.050 --> 01:25:51.409
This is going to sound basic, but it's do something.
1690
01:25:54.149 --> 01:25:57.800
You've got to get that action bias. Again, listen to Voslov.
1691
01:25:57.840 --> 01:26:00.199
It doesn't have to be huge. But find those places
1692
01:26:00.260 --> 01:26:03.619
where you know you've been going along. You know you
1693
01:26:03.649 --> 01:26:04.390
really didn't agree.
1694
01:26:04.630 --> 01:26:06.609
Could be eating. What are some of the simple places
1695
01:26:06.630 --> 01:26:07.109
where people can listen?
1696
01:26:07.130 --> 01:26:10.310
I'm talking literally like go back to the very beginning. No,
1697
01:26:10.329 --> 01:26:11.569
I'm not actually drinking tonight.
1698
01:26:11.590 --> 01:26:11.729
Yep.
1699
01:26:11.750 --> 01:26:14.210
You know what I mean? Little things. Hey, are we
1700
01:26:14.250 --> 01:26:15.560
sure we want to go to that restaurant?
1701
01:26:15.770 --> 01:26:16.380
Yep.
1702
01:26:16.640 --> 01:26:19.939
Just stuff that, like, I'm talking about your preferences. They
1703
01:26:19.960 --> 01:26:22.939
don't have to be these deep, profound, like, let's have
1704
01:26:22.979 --> 01:26:26.439
a political conversation about, it could, but just, you know,
1705
01:26:26.460 --> 01:26:29.800
first of all, you know it when you're not being authentic. Like,
1706
01:26:29.859 --> 01:26:32.359
so I don't have to tell you. It's so true.
1707
01:26:32.619 --> 01:26:35.050
And just say, look, I'm going to commit to one
1708
01:26:35.310 --> 01:26:38.770
act of authenticity. And I would say, find the smallest
1709
01:26:39.109 --> 01:26:43.109
meaningful act. And I'll tell you, remember that reward signal
1710
01:26:43.149 --> 01:26:44.270
I talked about with conformity?
1711
01:26:44.510 --> 01:26:44.729
Yes.
1712
01:26:44.810 --> 01:26:46.189
It also works with authenticity.
1713
01:26:46.390 --> 01:26:47.350
Tell me more about that.
1714
01:26:47.369 --> 01:26:51.039
So when people who desire authenticity believe they are acting
1715
01:26:51.079 --> 01:26:54.000
on it, and we've seen this with neuroimaging studies and everything,
1716
01:26:54.640 --> 01:26:58.000
they get the same reward response. Because your brain's like, that,
1717
01:26:58.300 --> 01:27:01.340
do more of that. And then you get the anticipation
1718
01:27:01.399 --> 01:27:04.890
of it. And one small act leads to another, leads
1719
01:27:04.939 --> 01:27:08.310
to another. It becomes habit. then it becomes your identity.
1720
01:27:08.710 --> 01:27:11.229
It becomes who you are. And you won't even realize
1721
01:27:11.310 --> 01:27:15.710
it happened. And then you'll become the person that everyone
1722
01:27:15.750 --> 01:27:18.130
looks at and goes, I want to be like them.
1723
01:27:18.510 --> 01:27:22.109
I want to be around them. The energy you bring
1724
01:27:22.470 --> 01:27:25.409
into a room. And the thing is, it's absolutely contagious.
1725
01:27:26.109 --> 01:27:28.319
not only because you create permission for other people to
1726
01:27:28.420 --> 01:27:31.960
unbutton their hands at the table, right? Are mine buttoned?
1727
01:27:32.039 --> 01:27:33.800
I was like, did I button them back up?
1728
01:27:34.300 --> 01:27:37.720
Because we know this from the research that happiness itself
1729
01:27:37.819 --> 01:27:42.300
is contagious. When the people around you within your network
1730
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:45.939
increase their happiness, you get about a 25% boost for free.
1731
01:27:47.020 --> 01:27:50.300
Become that person. And if you worry too much about
1732
01:27:50.380 --> 01:27:53.619
the end goal, it feels insurmountable. I remember thinking when
1733
01:27:53.659 --> 01:27:59.899
I was... minimum wage, welfare, two kids, no high school diploma.
1734
01:28:00.819 --> 01:28:02.560
If I tried to think about what life might be
1735
01:28:02.600 --> 01:28:06.529
like in the long, it just seems insurmountable. All I
1736
01:28:06.529 --> 01:28:08.949
thought was, what's the next step that I can take?
1737
01:28:10.590 --> 01:28:13.250
And then you take another step. And for me, and
1738
01:28:13.270 --> 01:28:17.409
I don't mean this to sound arrogant, it took seven
1739
01:28:17.449 --> 01:28:20.520
years from when I was, felled out of high school
1740
01:28:21.079 --> 01:28:23.979
to when I got into Harvard for my doctorate. another
1741
01:28:24.020 --> 01:28:28.510
seven years before I was a professor. Like, that time's
1742
01:28:28.520 --> 01:28:31.310
going to go past no matter what you do. And
1743
01:28:31.350 --> 01:28:34.029
when you think about those sort of time horizons, you know,
1744
01:28:34.270 --> 01:28:37.069
five years is going to go by, whether you like
1745
01:28:37.109 --> 01:28:41.029
it or not. And all the fear you feel, first
1746
01:28:41.060 --> 01:28:42.939
of all, I'll say most of it is completely unfounded.
1747
01:28:42.989 --> 01:28:45.220
Now you know why. It's a prison in our own minds.
1748
01:28:45.880 --> 01:28:51.600
We're at war with ourselves. But whatever fear you feel, remember,
1749
01:28:52.260 --> 01:28:55.460
you know something's wrong right now. Like the status quo
1750
01:28:55.479 --> 01:28:58.810
in your own life is not good enough. you know
1751
01:28:58.840 --> 01:29:02.039
that you deserve better than that. That time's going to pass.
1752
01:29:03.199 --> 01:29:07.140
Just start the small acts, get on that path of authenticity,
1753
01:29:07.500 --> 01:29:11.279
and I promise you, you won't even recognize yourself.
1754
01:29:12.359 --> 01:29:14.600
Todd Rose, what are your parting words?
1755
01:29:15.329 --> 01:29:19.590
It's easy for individuals just living their life, trying to
1756
01:29:19.630 --> 01:29:21.630
make ends meet day to day. You barely have enough
1757
01:29:21.689 --> 01:29:25.369
time to do anything for yourself. The problems in our
1758
01:29:25.409 --> 01:29:30.659
society seem so big so insurmountable that there's like an
1759
01:29:30.840 --> 01:29:34.770
apathy that sets in because what could I possibly do?
1760
01:29:34.789 --> 01:29:36.109
It's also exhausting.
1761
01:29:36.170 --> 01:29:39.010
It is exhausting because it's exhausting in part because we
1762
01:29:39.069 --> 01:29:42.029
don't know what to do. We feel like nothing we
1763
01:29:42.069 --> 01:29:45.229
could do would ever matter and we feel helpless. It's
1764
01:29:45.270 --> 01:29:49.560
not true. Like at my core, I believe it, but
1765
01:29:49.579 --> 01:29:52.039
I also have the data to back it up. You
1766
01:29:52.180 --> 01:29:56.720
matter more than you could possibly know. That's true in general.
1767
01:29:57.159 --> 01:29:59.619
But it is particularly true when the problems of our
1768
01:29:59.680 --> 01:30:04.279
society are related to collective illusions. You have a role
1769
01:30:04.300 --> 01:30:07.520
to play. Do it for yourself. Your life will be
1770
01:30:07.649 --> 01:30:11.170
immeasurably better. You and I both know. I pinch myself.
1771
01:30:11.229 --> 01:30:13.130
I'm like, I cannot believe I get to live this life.
1772
01:30:13.930 --> 01:30:16.569
Same. And I also can't believe how long I spent
1773
01:30:16.609 --> 01:30:19.489
trying to fit in and how exhausting and fatiguing it was,
1774
01:30:19.550 --> 01:30:22.750
how long I gaslit myself saying there's nothing I can do.
1775
01:30:23.390 --> 01:30:26.609
And all the noise is correct when I deeply fundamentally
1776
01:30:26.689 --> 01:30:30.720
believe that's not true, that we all kind of want
1777
01:30:30.760 --> 01:30:33.899
the same things. And then when you realize, wait a minute,
1778
01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:37.619
if I'm just authentically myself, the illusion disappears.
1779
01:30:37.800 --> 01:30:41.079
Do it for yourself just for that. But do it
1780
01:30:41.140 --> 01:30:41.460
for us.
1781
01:30:42.250 --> 01:30:46.739
Todd, I am so grateful. I am grateful that you're
1782
01:30:46.760 --> 01:30:50.680
doing this work. I am so grateful that you are
1783
01:30:50.779 --> 01:30:53.260
able to break it down for all of us. And
1784
01:30:53.300 --> 01:30:56.739
so I just want to thank you for the proof
1785
01:30:56.979 --> 01:31:00.510
and the permission to believe in the better nature in
1786
01:31:00.529 --> 01:31:05.670
all of us. And I'm also grateful that just allowing
1787
01:31:05.729 --> 01:31:08.770
yourself to be yourself and finding the courage to start
1788
01:31:08.810 --> 01:31:11.180
to point your life back toward the things that you
1789
01:31:11.220 --> 01:31:13.359
know make you feel like you is actually the answer
1790
01:31:13.390 --> 01:31:15.970
to all the big problems. So thank you, thank you,
1791
01:31:16.010 --> 01:31:17.510
thank you. And I also want to thank you. Thank
1792
01:31:17.529 --> 01:31:21.890
you for being here. Thank you for really listening or
1793
01:31:21.930 --> 01:31:24.630
watching something that will help you be more authentic. And
1794
01:31:24.710 --> 01:31:28.680
thank you for sharing this. More than any other episode,
1795
01:31:28.920 --> 01:31:32.119
we do have the power to change things. Do not
1796
01:31:32.140 --> 01:31:34.079
buy into the lies. I really want you to live
1797
01:31:34.119 --> 01:31:37.479
in the truth. And I love you for being here.
1798
01:31:37.699 --> 01:31:39.760
And I do believe in your ability to create a
1799
01:31:39.760 --> 01:31:43.140
better life. And today, after our conversation and everything I learned,
1800
01:31:43.899 --> 01:31:47.159
I believe in your ability and my ability to create
1801
01:31:47.180 --> 01:31:49.859
a better world. Alrighty, I'll see you in the very
1802
01:31:49.920 --> 01:32:02.770
next episode. I'll welcome you in the moment you hit play. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, 10.
1803
01:32:02.770 --> 01:32:06.300
All right, you ready? No, you're good. Okay, here we go. Okay, gotcha.
1804
01:32:06.399 --> 01:32:06.720
Okay.
1805
01:32:06.899 --> 01:32:09.260
I'm just going to go drink some water and get ready.
1806
01:32:09.279 --> 01:32:09.979
I'm really excited.
1807
01:32:10.000 --> 01:32:10.350
Yeah, me too.
1808
01:32:10.359 --> 01:32:11.010
Thank you for coming in.
1809
01:32:11.020 --> 01:32:11.609
Thanks for having me.
1810
01:32:11.619 --> 01:32:12.979
Of course. All right, you ready?
1811
01:32:13.279 --> 01:32:13.520
Good.
1812
01:32:14.010 --> 01:32:16.270
Let's dive in. Perfect timing.
1813
01:32:16.529 --> 01:32:18.149
I have two big German shepherds.
1814
01:32:18.390 --> 01:32:21.689
Oh, you do? Okay, I got to bounce. All right, great.
1815
01:32:21.729 --> 01:32:22.270
Let's have lunch.
1816
01:32:23.189 --> 01:32:24.500
That was so fun. Thank you.
1817
01:32:24.689 --> 01:32:26.590
Oh, my God.
1818
01:32:26.890 --> 01:32:27.800
That was so much fun. Thank you.
1819
01:32:27.810 --> 01:32:34.890
That was so incredible. Oh, and one more thing. And no,
1820
01:32:35.409 --> 01:32:39.489
this is not a blooper. This is the legal language.
1821
01:32:39.689 --> 01:32:42.260
You know what the lawyers write and what I need
1822
01:32:42.279 --> 01:32:46.119
to read to you. This podcast is presented solely for
1823
01:32:46.239 --> 01:32:50.760
educational and entertainment purposes. I'm just your friend. I am
1824
01:32:50.880 --> 01:32:54.840
not a licensed therapist. And this podcast is not intended
1825
01:32:54.960 --> 01:32:59.500
as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist,
1826
01:32:59.600 --> 01:33:01.500
or other qualified professional.
1827
01:33:01.960 --> 01:33:03.069
Got it? Good.
1828
01:33:03.529 --> 01:33:04.710
I'll see you in the next episode.
1829
01:33:15.060 --> 01:33:18.479
Delicious beef ragu for dinner because you can't keep up
1830
01:33:18.520 --> 01:33:22.229
with all the group chats. Spicy beef burrito for lunch
1831
01:33:22.310 --> 01:33:26.529
because you deserve it. Mouthwatering beef stir fry because you
1832
01:33:26.569 --> 01:33:28.670
hit reply all by accident.
1833
01:33:29.409 --> 01:33:29.609
Beef.
1834
01:33:29.939 --> 01:33:32.720
Because you deserve a tasty, nutritious meal you can feel
1835
01:33:32.760 --> 01:33:35.380
good about any day of the week. And every time
1836
01:33:35.420 --> 01:33:37.560
you choose beef with the Bored Be A Quality mark,
1837
01:33:37.680 --> 01:33:40.600
you're making a real difference to those who produce it.
1838
01:33:40.859 --> 01:33:43.619
Make your mark. Always choose beef with the Bored Be
1839
01:33:43.680 --> 01:33:44.399
A Quality mark.
1840
01:33:45.550 --> 01:33:52.529
Sean here just got a home energy grant from SEAI. € 8, 000
1841
01:33:49.729 --> 01:33:52.630
for wall insulation. Sounds like he'll be warm and cosy
1842
01:33:52.649 --> 01:33:55.630
this winter. And SEAI wants to give a home energy
1843
01:33:55.670 --> 01:33:58.789
grant with your name on it too. Apply for yours today.
1844
01:33:59.090 --> 01:34:03.100
Search SEAI Home Energy Upgrades. Supported by the Government of Ireland.
1845
01:34:03.399 --> 01:34:04.880
Eligibility terms and conditions apply.