WEBVTT
00:00:00.400 -->
00:00:04.400I'm building the corporate Australia that I always crave for.
00:00:04.639 -->
00:00:18.480I'd say the biggest gamble I can think of is my grandma who's now passed away, who took her 15-year-old son and 16-year-old grandson, sewed gold into their clothes and put them on the boat in the middle of the night and said, go because anywhere is better than here.
00:00:18.480 -->
00:00:27.839I always thought, you know, for a big chunk of my life, at least as a teenager turning into an adult, I thought, you know what, I've got to I've got to make the best of the opportunities my parents gave me.
00:00:28.399 -->
00:00:32.399So my report card was always this goopy can do great things in life if you just applied himself.
00:00:32.399 -->
00:00:36.000I think the big thing is for no ego.
00:00:36.000 -->
00:00:45.840I think just being able to leave the ego at the door and kind of walk in and take the idea for the face value as it is, giving people the room to be themselves.
00:00:46.079 -->
00:00:52.240And it wasn't until a little bit later that I actually understood as like, actually, the thing that my parents care about is me being happy.
00:01:03.759 -->
00:01:06.879Welcome to another exciting episode of the Mastering Podcast.
00:01:06.879 -->
00:01:14.159I'm your host, Magnus Olsen, and joining me today is again my favourite co-host, Don the Powerhouse Sanka.
00:01:14.159 -->
00:01:14.879How are you, mate?
00:01:15.120 -->
00:01:15.680Good, mate.
00:01:15.680 -->
00:01:16.480Good to be off.
00:01:19.439 -->
00:01:23.359All right, today we're joined by two men who just don't talk about the future.
00:01:23.359 -->
00:01:24.400They're building it.
00:01:24.400 -->
00:01:24.799Dr.
00:01:24.799 -->
00:01:32.480Vu Tran is a doctor, founder, entrepreneur, and business leader operating at the intersection of medicine, technology and AI.
00:01:32.480 -->
00:01:36.159From healthcare innovation to national defence and data.
00:01:36.159 -->
00:01:42.959Vu is focused on one thing: helping Australia think bigger and move faster in a world that's changing at speed.
00:01:42.959 -->
00:01:47.280Gopisara, he's an entrepreneur forged through the immigrant journey.
00:01:47.280 -->
00:01:52.400He's considered an expert in startups and heavily involved in high-stakes business growth.
00:01:52.400 -->
00:01:58.959He understands risk, resilience, and what it takes to build something from nothing in a competitive space.
00:01:58.959 -->
00:02:06.000Together, they bringed lived experience across health, technology, enterprise, and the future of work.
00:02:06.000 -->
00:02:10.400This will be a conversation of what it truly means to master the modern world.
00:02:10.400 -->
00:02:11.360Welcome, boys.
00:02:11.360 -->
00:02:11.919Thank you.
00:02:11.919 -->
00:02:12.800Thanks for having us.
00:02:12.960 -->
00:02:13.520Love the intro.
00:02:13.680 -->
00:02:17.120Man, that intro sounds like we're about to get in the ring and go for a fight, right?
00:02:17.120 -->
00:02:19.439Do you have to add in our weight and height as part of that as well?
00:02:19.680 -->
00:02:20.560Because there's not much missing.
00:02:20.560 -->
00:02:21.680Ready to rumble.
00:02:21.680 -->
00:02:24.159We'll leave that to the uh to the editor.
00:02:24.479 -->
00:02:29.360Mate, I I've got to say you actually underdid that because I've known these guys for years.
00:02:29.360 -->
00:02:35.199And I when we were uh putting this thing together, I just wanted to think, what are they masters of?
00:02:35.199 -->
00:02:42.240And Answer was like, I can't pinpoint, but one thing that I came to is there's a lot of people who call themselves futurists.
00:02:42.479 -->
00:02:43.439Can I just add to that?
00:02:43.439 -->
00:02:47.199Because I reckon these blanks are the Australian version of the PayPal Mafia.
00:02:47.199 -->
00:02:47.919What do you think about that?
00:02:48.159 -->
00:02:49.039We're pretty close.
00:02:49.039 -->
00:02:49.919Pretty close.
00:02:49.919 -->
00:02:56.400Once you start hearing more about the go on story and the whole journey, I I think we're pretty close on that one.
00:02:56.400 -->
00:02:57.439So let's dive in.
00:02:57.680 -->
00:02:58.400No, it's very kind.
00:02:58.400 -->
00:03:01.280I think for me, it's like definitely not a futurist.
00:03:01.280 -->
00:03:11.520Um, we've we talk about this a lot over the years, which is you see the stepping stones, and I think you just follow the stepping stones, and sometimes it leads to a place where you always know pro progress you push forward.
00:03:11.520 -->
00:03:13.680So it's always gonna lead you to a better place.
00:03:13.680 -->
00:03:17.439But there are other people out there who are predicting what the future is gonna look like.
00:03:17.439 -->
00:03:19.520And um, you know, that's definitely not me.
00:03:19.840 -->
00:03:20.960Definitely not me either.
00:03:20.960 -->
00:03:24.080Um, for me, actually, the principle is I don't know what the future's gonna look like.
00:03:24.080 -->
00:03:25.120I don't have a crystal ball.
00:03:25.120 -->
00:03:27.919If I did have a crystal ball, I wouldn't be sitting here with you guys, right?
00:03:27.919 -->
00:03:30.560I would have had the lotto tickets from last night or something like that.
00:03:30.560 -->
00:03:38.080So I appreciate the introduction, but I think, you know, my two cents is if we think too far ahead, we don't think about the present.
00:03:38.080 -->
00:03:40.159And a lot of the time that's what we miss.
00:03:40.159 -->
00:03:46.879You know, if if we we spoke about tangents before this kicked off, the tangent I'll bring back to is that mindfulness is something that's really, really important.
00:03:46.879 -->
00:03:53.120But if you zoom right out, looking at that in terms of going, a lot of people think it's too far ahead or too far back, they don't think about what's in front of them.
00:03:53.120 -->
00:03:57.360And I think one thing that we're really good at as entrepreneurs is dealing with what's in front of us.
00:03:57.360 -->
00:04:00.719Because you can think about strategy all you want, but execution's a big part of it.
00:04:00.719 -->
00:04:08.719So I know you're talking about being a futurist and all these things, which is great, but I think the trick that a lot of us miss is like dealing with what's in front of us.
00:04:08.719 -->
00:04:09.520That's a really big part of it.
00:04:09.520 -->
00:04:11.520And I think that's why Gopi and I get along really well.
00:04:11.599 -->
00:04:11.759Yeah.
00:04:12.000 -->
00:04:13.680Because it's around just executing, right?
00:04:13.840 -->
00:04:15.599And it's also like the time and the place, right?
00:04:15.599 -->
00:04:22.639We do take time to sometimes have like an hour and a half conversation and where we just, you know, bounce around where the future is, where the trend is, and things like that.
00:04:22.639 -->
00:04:27.759But that's definitely like, you know, once a month, once a quarter kind of thing, not every single day.
00:04:27.759 -->
00:04:30.240Every single day or it's just solving the problem at hand.
00:04:30.560 -->
00:04:32.560Anyone can predict the future, right?
00:04:32.560 -->
00:04:39.439But to action on an idea and make it work, and that's I disagree, but who can predict the future?
00:04:39.680 -->
00:04:40.560No, this is a good one.
00:04:40.560 -->
00:04:43.519I think anyone can predict.
00:04:43.680 -->
00:04:47.680Yeah, I think I think Don's point's pretty good, which is like I think anyone can have a view on the future.
00:04:47.680 -->
00:04:56.720Well, I think that's a better definition of and then to but actually put chips on the table and to have a bet on it, which you know involves sweat, time, you know, blood, energy, etc.
00:04:56.720 -->
00:05:05.360Uh, yeah, that that definitely does test you because you if it doesn't play out, you know, yeah, you kind of walk away empty-handed.
00:05:06.160 -->
00:05:07.120Let's kick off.
00:05:07.120 -->
00:05:11.439My first question is do immigrants make better entrepreneurs?
00:05:11.759 -->
00:05:13.040I'll let Vu take this one.
00:05:13.040 -->
00:05:15.759He's got a really good, he's got a really good view on this uh thing.
00:05:16.000 -->
00:05:23.439Oh look, I I don't I'm not gonna say immigrants make better entrepreneurs, but I'll talk about the selection bias that exists with immigrants, right?
00:05:23.439 -->
00:05:26.319So I'm the child of Vietnamese immigrants.
00:05:26.319 -->
00:05:33.680I was born here 10 years after my parents arrived in Australia, so incredibly privileged life compared to my siblings who are 10, 12, and 14 years older than me.
00:05:33.680 -->
00:05:37.680So they came across on a boat with mum and dad as an example and fled Vietnam.
00:05:37.680 -->
00:05:44.319My dad used to always tell me that the Steve Jobs of his generation fled Vietnam after the war.
00:05:44.319 -->
00:06:02.879Because the selection bias that exists for migrants, in particular refugees, just think about it, the ones that are willing to take a risk, take a bet, to gamble, to jump on a boat like my parents did with their three kids under the age of five, go to God knows where to escape God knows what, right?
00:06:02.879 -->
00:06:10.560And so if you think about it, and where I see this is I I think about my my dad compared to my uncle who stayed in Vietnam.
00:06:10.560 -->
00:06:11.279Okay, yeah, yeah.
00:06:11.279 -->
00:06:11.600Right?
00:06:11.600 -->
00:06:14.560Two brothers, not that far in difference in age.
00:06:14.560 -->
00:06:19.759My my uncle who stayed in Vietnam, worked in the same job his entire life.
00:06:19.759 -->
00:06:28.240My dad arrived in Australia, started a business, started a sewing factory, started a convenience store, all these different sorts of things, right?
00:06:28.240 -->
00:06:36.720And I think that bias, that selection bias that occurs a lot with migrants and with immigrants is that sort of that risk-taking profile.
00:06:36.720 -->
00:06:52.560I wouldn't say they're gamblers, but I'd say the biggest gambler I can think of is my grandma who's now passed away, who took her 15-year-old son and 16-year-old grandson, sewed gold into their clothes and put them on the boat in the middle of the night and said, go because anywhere is better than here.
00:06:52.560 -->
00:06:52.959Right.
00:06:52.959 -->
00:06:54.879That's the story that I grew up with as a kid.
00:06:54.879 -->
00:06:58.399Because they were the first ones to leave Vietnam before the rest of my family fled.
00:06:58.399 -->
00:07:01.920And I think about it going, man, grandma was a real hustler.
00:07:01.920 -->
00:07:07.120She was the one who was sitting there going, I want to be able to, she's taking a calculated risk, right?
00:07:07.120 -->
00:07:08.720She's weighing out the pros and cons.
00:07:08.720 -->
00:07:17.439But as Gopi said earlier, when we were talking about this, like it's one to be able to have a view on the future, it's another one to then act on it and have conviction behind that.
00:07:17.439 -->
00:07:31.839So, you know, in a nutshell, when I think about sort of migrants and that propensity that they have towards being entrepreneurs, the selection bias is the migrant who has come to Australia, say for example, as a refugee, is already probably a risk taker by nature.
00:07:31.839 -->
00:07:40.319And if I think about my childhood growing up as a kid, I I people will go, Did you have tiger parents, right?
00:07:40.319 -->
00:07:44.480Like, you know, the your typical Asian parent who kind of wants you to be a straight age student and all that stuff.
00:07:44.480 -->
00:07:49.600My parents did not know a single grade that I had throughout all of primary school and high school.
00:07:49.600 -->
00:07:50.720No, but not a single grade.
00:07:50.800 -->
00:07:51.279They did not look at it.
00:07:51.279 -->
00:07:57.439Speaking of those grades, what was something, what was a typical comment that was written on your report cards by your teachers growing up?
00:07:59.120 -->
00:08:00.959I don't know, gone from I don't know.
00:08:00.959 -->
00:08:08.480It was it would it would have so honestly it would have just been that I was a I was probably a very combative kid growing up, but I always got great grades, right?
00:08:08.480 -->
00:08:13.519So I do remember my grade five teacher coming up and saying, Hey, are you okay with your report card?
00:08:13.519 -->
00:08:15.279I do remember that distinctly, right?
00:08:15.279 -->
00:08:15.920Miss Mrs.
00:08:15.920 -->
00:08:20.879Dingle, she was very, very lovely, but I do remember that was when I used to duke it out with her on a whole bunch of different things.
00:08:20.879 -->
00:08:24.480But I got you know, I got good grades and and had great teachers.
00:08:24.480 -->
00:08:36.320But going back to it, my parents, I always thought, you know, for a big chunk of my life, at least as a teenager turning into an adult, I thought, you know what, I've gotta, I've gotta make the best of the opportunities my parents gave me.
00:08:36.320 -->
00:08:42.559And it wasn't until a little bit later that I actually understood as like, actually, the thing that my parents care about is me being happy.
00:08:42.559 -->
00:08:48.080Because being alive, having a roof over my head and being fed was like the gold medal for them.
00:08:48.080 -->
00:08:51.039Anything beyond that was cream, right?
00:08:51.039 -->
00:08:56.399So I don't know, I'm coming back to it and I'd go, I wouldn't say migrants make better entrepreneurs.
00:08:56.399 -->
00:08:57.759I don't think that's fair, right?
00:08:57.759 -->
00:09:07.600I think it's saying that there's a selection bias there where migrants and those who are who take risks are more likely to have a greater propensity to be entrepreneurs.
00:09:07.600 -->
00:09:16.799And I grew up in a household where it was abnormal for all the aunties and uncles to own a business, a bakery, a restaurant, a convenience store, right?
00:09:16.799 -->
00:09:29.360So for me growing up as a kid, you know, when I went to Andrew, who I started Go One with and said, Hey, let's register an ABN and uh start selling websites in grade 11 and 12 when everyone else got a job at Woolies and Coles.
00:09:29.360 -->
00:09:30.960That wasn't abnormal.
00:09:30.960 -->
00:09:33.440I look back on it now and I go, that's abnormal.
00:09:33.519 -->
00:09:33.759Yeah.
00:09:33.919 -->
00:09:36.320But back then that was just super, super normal.
00:09:36.320 -->
00:09:40.320So it's a long-winded answer to say, I don't think that there is they're better.
00:09:40.320 -->
00:09:41.279Migrants are better.
00:09:41.279 -->
00:09:45.440I think there's just a selection bias in terms of the type of people who migrate in the first place.
00:09:45.679 -->
00:09:51.279And this is something we've um talked about a lot in the sense that like I haven't formed a view on this answer, this question, right?
00:09:51.279 -->
00:09:54.320Because my background is I came to Australia as a refugee.
00:09:54.320 -->
00:09:57.600You know, I was the and I didn't make the decision.
00:09:57.600 -->
00:09:58.559Mum and dad did, right?
00:09:58.559 -->
00:09:59.840How old were you when you came?
00:09:59.840 -->
00:10:00.799Uh 11.
00:10:00.799 -->
00:10:07.840So mum and dad, you know, um, we're Sri Lankans, never been in Sri Lanka, always kind of was around other places.
00:10:07.840 -->
00:10:11.919Um war was going at the time, and they wanted a better future for my sister and I.
00:10:11.919 -->
00:10:13.840So they decided to come to Australia.
00:10:13.840 -->
00:10:16.480My dad got separated from us while we were coming here.
00:10:16.480 -->
00:10:19.440So he was stuck in Singapore for almost 12 years.
00:10:19.440 -->
00:10:23.360So last time I saw my dad was 11, and I saw him again when I was 22.
00:10:23.360 -->
00:10:26.159Um, but my parents, you know, came here.
00:10:26.159 -->
00:10:37.279Um, and you know, we talk about this thing a lot, which is around when you have generations, you have one generation that's a farmer, next generation is a worker, and the next generation's a poet.
00:10:37.279 -->
00:10:40.000You have to decide which generation are you?
00:10:40.000 -->
00:10:46.080And um, I feel unfortunate to be the poet generation because of the sacrifices my parents made.
00:10:46.080 -->
00:10:50.799Um, that I don't think that drove me to become an entrepreneur.
00:10:50.799 -->
00:10:54.879Um, I think it was just that, I don't think it kind of instilled the risk taking.
00:10:54.879 -->
00:11:02.080It was just more that maybe the people around me, the environment, seeing my cousins do a bunch of things, et cetera, it kind of made me want to go.
00:11:02.080 -->
00:11:03.279I wanted that.
00:11:03.279 -->
00:11:07.840Or it could be that I came through corporate Australia and I just hated corporate Australia so much.
00:11:07.840 -->
00:11:13.519It could literally be that I just went and saw an environment that I was like, I can't work in that place anymore.
00:11:13.519 -->
00:11:15.679I've got to go and build my own environment.
00:11:15.679 -->
00:11:18.320And um, you know, it comes through that.
00:11:18.320 -->
00:11:24.240But um, yeah, it is definitely a case of like um it's really hard to pinpoint the characteristics.
00:11:24.559 -->
00:11:26.159Can I rephrase that in a in a different way?
00:11:26.159 -->
00:11:28.320But by the way, uh interesting.
00:11:28.320 -->
00:11:31.600Um, Gopi and I both came from Sri Lanka.
00:11:31.600 -->
00:11:37.360I migrated under different circumstances, and we were probably on the opposite side of that wall.
00:11:37.360 -->
00:11:38.639Yeah, yeah, that's right.
00:11:38.639 -->
00:11:39.360Yeah, but yeah.
00:11:39.360 -->
00:11:47.039And you know, we all migrated at some point, or the result of migration and under different different circumstances, right?
00:11:47.039 -->
00:11:55.440Do you think that as migrants, because of the circumstances and the way we have to face challenges, we become harder workers or do we put in more?
00:11:55.440 -->
00:11:56.720Do we push through?
00:11:57.679 -->
00:12:06.240I'll just make I liked your when you're talking about that you came over on a boat, because there's that saying that we've all heard that if you want to succeed in something, you've got to burn the boats.
00:12:06.240 -->
00:12:12.240And I think a little bit of that analogy can play true, that your parents have come here, they've they've come with absolutely nothing.
00:12:12.240 -->
00:12:14.480They've got no choice but to make this work.
00:12:14.480 -->
00:12:15.600There's no turning back.
00:12:15.600 -->
00:12:16.639There's no turning back.
00:12:17.039 -->
00:12:21.759And I think I think that's why like um being in that situation.
00:12:21.759 -->
00:12:29.279So coming here as a refugee, no, had no money growing up, like, you know, because we were refugees as well, we couldn't work and things like that.
00:12:29.279 -->
00:12:33.039So we had to find ways to, you know, have money because dad was stuck overseas.
00:12:33.039 -->
00:12:37.519So we still, my sister and I started a tutoring business when we were like 15 years old.
00:12:37.519 -->
00:12:40.159And so we used to tutor kids in the area and stuff like that.
00:12:40.159 -->
00:12:46.159Kids found out, and before we know it, Saturday and Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, we were just back-to-back tutoring for like 12 hours a day.
00:12:46.159 -->
00:12:49.440And that kind of created like the income for us to kind of survive.
00:12:49.440 -->
00:12:53.919And so sometimes pressure creates an environment where you find a solution.
00:12:53.919 -->
00:13:05.840But then I think it's really interesting is when you come later in life and you have the money and things like that, and then you go to take the punishment of becoming a business owner, of founding something, that speaks a quite different.
00:13:05.840 -->
00:13:15.919And I think what bridges the gap is if you're early on and if you're lucky enough to find a little bit of success, it becomes addictive.
00:13:15.919 -->
00:13:20.159And then all of a sudden, because I was a C average student at school, right?
00:13:20.159 -->
00:13:22.399I I was smart, but I never applied myself.
00:13:22.399 -->
00:13:27.120And my so my report card was always is Gopi can do great things in life if you just applied himself.
00:13:27.120 -->
00:13:30.240Um, and so I like it from an OP ranking perspective.
00:13:30.240 -->
00:13:39.279I think I got like OP7, which is like, you know, top 20%, but like definitely not like OP1 or OP2 that you know most uh Sri Lankan or you know Asian kids kind of get.
00:13:39.279 -->
00:13:44.240When I went into university, my first semester, I got straight HDs.
00:13:44.240 -->
00:13:46.159And I just went, whoa.
00:13:46.159 -->
00:13:50.720And then my whole uni degree came became about protecting the record.
00:13:50.720 -->
00:14:05.120It was like I would never let anything get in the way of, and so sometimes there's a little bit of luck involved where your knowledge, your intelligence, your capability, the exam in front of you, the opportunity in front of you just collide.
00:14:05.120 -->
00:14:19.279And then as soon as you feel that, oh, this is this is on, then I reckon since that was 17, since 17 to now, it's all been about like protecting that record, building on that excellence, etc.
00:14:19.919 -->
00:14:27.519I I think that's such a really good point because like you know, what I what I take away from what you're saying, there is also that little bit of self-belief as well.
00:14:27.519 -->
00:14:31.519Of going, not only, you know, people will say, Can I do it?
00:14:31.519 -->
00:14:34.720Okay, now that I've done it, it's like, okay, what more can I do?
00:14:34.720 -->
00:14:35.519What more can I do?
00:14:35.519 -->
00:14:37.360Or what other opportunities exist there?
00:14:37.360 -->
00:14:49.279Which is so powerful because I think I you know, as I said, I was I was very lucky in that I met Andrew, who's our co-founder at OneMRI very early on in high school.
00:14:49.279 -->
00:14:50.559We're good mates from high school.
00:14:50.559 -->
00:14:53.039We did all every subject together bar one.
00:14:53.039 -->
00:14:56.240I did I did uh biology, he did economics.
00:14:56.240 -->
00:14:58.960So he went on to become an economist, I went on to become a doctor, right?
00:14:58.960 -->
00:15:00.639That was the only difference between us.
00:15:00.639 -->
00:15:14.000And what was really interesting is if I think back on it, it was this sort of being fortunate enough to meet other people like Gopi, like Andrew, who kind of view things as an opportunity rather than a liability.
00:15:14.000 -->
00:15:18.159It's not what can I lose, but like what can I gain and what does that look like as well.
00:15:18.159 -->
00:15:26.960And that sort of upside mind so sorry, upside sort of mindset is something that also I don't think is very common.
00:15:26.960 -->
00:15:34.080Because you do meet a lot of people in different circumstances where they'll sit there and and and I see it all the time as a doctor, right?
00:15:34.080 -->
00:15:40.159When I think about my other um uh friends who I went through medical school with, right?
00:15:40.159 -->
00:15:47.200And a lot of them now have the sunk cost fallacy of having spent 15, 20 years of training, right?
00:15:47.200 -->
00:15:53.360This is post, you know, one of my friends, she's a neurosurgeon, so literally a brain surgeon, and she's finishing her training this year.
00:15:53.360 -->
00:15:55.440We graduated uni in 2011.
00:15:55.440 -->
00:16:02.720So she's done 15 years of extra training on top of her five-year medical degree, so 20 years of study to become a neurosurgeon, right?
00:16:02.720 -->
00:16:10.879So for her to sort of give up her training in inverted commas to go and start something new, I I wouldn't do that if I've done 20 years.
00:16:10.879 -->
00:16:12.559Like it's it's really, really hard.
00:16:12.559 -->
00:16:18.639But I do want to touch on something, Joey, that you know, and and I and I hope you don't mind me asking, well, getting you to share this.
00:16:18.639 -->
00:16:20.720But I remember when you were about to have your second child.
00:16:21.039 -->
00:16:21.360Yeah, yeah.
00:16:21.519 -->
00:16:22.960And I was like, dude, get a snoo.
00:16:22.960 -->
00:16:25.039I don't know if you guys don't know what snoo is, but get a snoo.
00:16:25.039 -->
00:16:26.559It is it is the bomb, right?
00:16:27.600 -->
00:16:28.399Share what is a snoo.
00:16:28.720 -->
00:16:35.200So a a snoo is like a a cradle that you can tuck your newborn baby into, right?
00:16:35.200 -->
00:16:40.799And using an algorithm, it'll work out the type of rocking that it needs to get your child to sleep.
00:16:40.799 -->
00:16:46.000So as a parent, you're used to picking up your kid and you know exactly how to pat them and rock them to get to the sleep.
00:16:46.000 -->
00:16:53.120Well, this you strap your kid into and it'll keep adjusting the white noise and the movement to work out what your kid likes.
00:16:53.120 -->
00:16:57.039And then once it does that, it'll get used to it, and then it'll put your child to sleep.
00:16:57.039 -->
00:16:57.919And it's amazing, right?
00:16:57.919 -->
00:17:02.799So Gobi was about to have his second child, and I said, dude, I'll give you some advice because I had my second child.
00:17:02.799 -->
00:17:04.960You should get what's called a snoo.
00:17:04.960 -->
00:17:08.000And so what Gobi said to me is, Oh yeah, I know what a snoo is.
00:17:08.000 -->
00:17:09.039Do you want to explain?
00:17:09.279 -->
00:17:09.599Yeah.
00:17:09.599 -->
00:17:12.559So when we had our first child, we bought a snoo.
00:17:12.559 -->
00:17:15.200And then um, from time to time they go on for sale.
00:17:15.200 -->
00:17:19.440And so it was like, uh, it was around Black Friday you can get like 30% off.
00:17:19.440 -->
00:17:20.799I bought a ton of them.
00:17:20.960 -->
00:17:24.160And then you just turned to me and he said, like, I've got like 30 snooze.
00:17:24.160 -->
00:17:25.359And I was like, wait, what?
00:17:25.519 -->
00:17:31.519And you said, Yeah, so we used to run a website called like rentasnoo.com.au and it's so it's like you can't buy sleep, but you can rent a snoo.
00:17:31.519 -->
00:17:36.000And you just rent these out for like 50 bucks a week, they pay back within three or four months.
00:17:36.000 -->
00:17:40.640And it was it, you know, it was one of those things, you know, I learned a lot from this experience.
00:17:40.640 -->
00:17:42.640I mean, I've I've always been hustling.
00:17:42.640 -->
00:17:50.960So I've, you know, from the age of 15, you know, 14, 15, when we started that tutoring business, always, you know, running businesses, doing things, et cetera.
00:17:50.960 -->
00:18:04.079And what's really interesting being here today, you know, going through all that journey is um, you know, having the hustle mindset's good, but having the mindset to play big is even better.
00:18:04.079 -->
00:18:08.319So the time, like I remember so running the snooze business, it was quite good.
00:18:08.319 -->
00:18:10.400And um, I got busy with work.
00:18:10.400 -->
00:18:13.599So my wife, I was like, hey, can you just like sort this business out?
00:18:13.599 -->
00:18:17.920And like it was making like maybe a grand and a half, two grand a week.
00:18:17.920 -->
00:18:21.920And my wife was like, Yep, I'll take it over and stuff.
00:18:21.920 -->
00:18:24.640And one day I came back and there was like six or seven snooze lying around.
00:18:24.640 -->
00:18:25.519I was like, what's going on?
00:18:25.519 -->
00:18:28.319Like my utilization was like 95%, right?
00:18:28.319 -->
00:18:32.640She's like, dude, I could just go work for a day and pay you $2,000.
00:18:32.640 -->
00:18:35.519Like, I don't need to like handle all these people and stuff.
00:18:35.519 -->
00:18:38.240And then it kind of clicked as like, she's kind of right, right?
00:18:38.240 -->
00:18:43.759Like there's this thing of like the hustle mentality is good, but truly go after your potential.
00:18:43.759 -->
00:18:56.240And you know, it was it was really interesting when one of my friends asked me six, eight months ago why, because before One MRI, uh, I was an investor in a company called OfferFit.
00:18:56.240 -->
00:18:59.440I've kind of helped them get a, you know, um grow quite quickly.
00:18:59.440 -->
00:19:01.279OfferFit got acquired.
00:19:01.279 -->
00:19:06.240And so there was a really nice windfall that came in that allowed me to do a bunch of things that I wanted to do.
00:19:06.240 -->
00:19:09.359And one of the things I wanted to do since I was a little kid was play golf.
00:19:09.359 -->
00:19:12.880I could never afford it when I was young, and then later in life, I just never had a time.
00:19:12.880 -->
00:19:16.960And so I was gonna get a I signed up to Indrapilly Golf Club, which is quite expensive.
00:19:16.960 -->
00:19:21.119I got a full-time coach and I was like, spend the next couple of years playing golf.
00:19:21.119 -->
00:19:23.759And um, all of our lunches and coffee.
00:19:23.759 -->
00:19:24.720Yeah, that's right.
00:19:24.720 -->
00:19:25.599Yeah, exactly.
00:19:25.599 -->
00:19:27.839How old were you then?
00:19:27.839 -->
00:19:29.279Oh, this was just two years ago.
00:19:29.279 -->
00:19:30.000Two years ago.
00:19:30.000 -->
00:19:30.240Yeah.
00:19:30.240 -->
00:19:30.720Yeah.
00:19:30.720 -->
00:19:37.039And um, and um, my friend Lon was like, hey, what made you take the risk to go do this?
00:19:37.039 -->
00:19:41.279Because the other thing is I could have also just stayed at off of it and it would have been paid quite well, et cetera.
00:19:41.279 -->
00:19:42.160And I was like, What do you mean?
00:19:42.160 -->
00:19:44.079He goes, Oh, like it's a big financial risk, et cetera.
00:19:44.079 -->
00:19:47.839And I was like, oh man, I never saw it as the financial risk.
00:19:47.839 -->
00:19:50.799Like until Lon asked me about it, actually didn't click.
00:19:50.799 -->
00:20:03.200For me, it was like, dude, to spend time with people like Vu who think big picture and allow me to kind of get off this snoo business, you know, the ideas to like much bigger opportunities.
00:20:03.200 -->
00:20:04.559That's kind of where I want to be.
00:20:04.559 -->
00:20:12.000And so sometimes, you know, when we ask the question, do immigrants make great entrepreneurs because they're risk-taking appetite?
00:20:12.000 -->
00:20:19.279It could just be that immigrants are just always seeking better opportunities, you know, always looking for more.
00:20:19.279 -->
00:20:23.039And it's not the, you know, they they never satisfy the Maslow hierarchy of needs.
00:20:23.039 -->
00:20:26.559When life is, you know, eight out of 10, they kind of go, why is it not 10 out of 10?
00:20:26.559 -->
00:20:28.720Like, what more can I do to get 10 out of 10?
00:20:28.960 -->
00:20:32.400Or is it because everything's not there lined up for you?
00:20:32.400 -->
00:20:35.839So you've got to find ways to get a crown and and find solutions.
00:20:35.839 -->
00:20:36.400Yeah.
00:20:36.400 -->
00:20:44.960I think that has a lot to do with it because we have to be inventive and creative on the I I often get asked about sort of Australia's innovation ecosystem.
00:20:45.039 -->
00:20:50.559Right, you know, why don't we why aren't we able to do what Silicon Valley does or what other sort of countries do?
00:20:50.559 -->
00:21:01.599The the paradox is that because we're the lucky company, uh lucky company, lucky country, we also have a lot more, we also have this feeling of we have a lot more to lose to an extent as well, right?
00:21:01.599 -->
00:21:10.720Similar to what I was saying in terms of my my friends who are doctors now, who've done decades of training and you know, the the ability to take a risk, you know, that they're moving from a much higher base.
00:21:10.720 -->
00:21:14.799But I think in general as a society, we actually have a much higher base.
00:21:14.799 -->
00:21:20.559And so if you ask my parents, they go, You have an amazing safety net where you can take that risk.
00:21:20.559 -->
00:21:27.039But the flip side of that exact same coin is someone saying, Hey, we've got this amazing safety net, I don't want to bugger it up, right?
00:21:27.039 -->
00:21:28.079As an individual.
00:21:28.079 -->
00:21:31.119And that in itself, you would have experienced that and seen that in the corporate world, as right.
00:21:31.200 -->
00:21:32.079Yeah, yeah, totally.
00:21:32.079 -->
00:21:34.720And I think again, it goes back to luck.
00:21:34.720 -->
00:21:48.319If you're lucky enough that you have a true north in life that aligns that you actually, you know, resonate with, internalized, you have great self awareness and it aligns with what we're talking about today.
00:21:48.319 -->
00:21:50.319Wells, the wells of your oyster, right?
00:21:50.319 -->
00:21:56.799Like my true north in life is all about building relationship and learning and pushing the envelope, etc.
00:21:56.799 -->
00:21:59.759And so, like when Vu and I met the first couple of years.
00:21:59.759 -->
00:22:04.880Was us getting together hoardly and just talking about life.
00:22:04.880 -->
00:22:18.079Vu would talk about, you know, like we would share concepts of like what our values are and how we use values as our concept in life and how life gives you stepping stones and you've got to step on these stones, but you kind of know what need to know where your true north is.
00:22:18.079 -->
00:22:20.559And so mine was always about building relationships.
00:22:20.559 -->
00:22:30.960And so when he pinged me about one MRI, I was sitting there going, I go out of my way to have coffee and lunch with Vu and Andrew once a quarter.
00:22:30.960 -->
00:22:34.319What it would be like to just hang out with these guys every single day.
00:22:34.319 -->
00:22:41.599And sometimes when things get really tough, I mean, when you're building a business, it you get into the depth of depth of desperate, you know, desp desperation.
00:22:42.160 -->
00:22:46.000Elon Yeah, Elon Musk calls it uh chewing glass and staring into the abyss, right?
00:22:46.000 -->
00:22:47.119The world of being a founder.
00:22:47.279 -->
00:22:49.680Yeah, like that moment of anxiety and stress.
00:22:49.680 -->
00:22:54.640And then that big picture allows you to take a step back and everything else doesn't matter.
00:22:54.640 -->
00:22:59.599You go like what really is important is the fun we're having on this journey.
00:22:59.599 -->
00:23:06.079And then we'll start chatting, and then all of a sudden it's like all the day-to-day stuff kind of dissipates and you get a bit of better clarity.
00:23:06.079 -->
00:23:08.960You, you know, uh tackle what's in front of you.
00:23:08.960 -->
00:23:18.640But I reckon it's a lot to do with luck, a lot to do with people around you, having these conversations, allowing you to truly tap into what you want to get out of life.
00:23:18.640 -->
00:23:20.319But you create that luck, right?
00:23:20.480 -->
00:23:22.720And I've got to uh back you up on that.
00:23:22.720 -->
00:23:28.000Like I I love the conversations we have, and you guys are never not available to people.
00:23:28.000 -->
00:23:32.640Whenever they reach out to you, you're you're there for a coffee or lunch or whatever it is.
00:23:32.640 -->
00:23:46.240One thing I've always noticed is if I've ever caught up with Vu or Gopi, whether it's a business meeting or uh catch up as mates for a coffee or lunch, I've actually never walked away not learning something new.
00:23:46.240 -->
00:23:48.559And I think it's very kind, thank you.
00:23:48.559 -->
00:23:49.440That that's that's huge.
00:23:49.440 -->
00:23:50.799It's not intentional.
00:23:52.000 -->
00:23:54.079Can can I just ask you to expand on?
00:23:54.079 -->
00:23:55.759Because I love what you said about values.
00:23:55.759 -->
00:23:59.599And as I've gotten older, that's been supremely important for me.
00:23:59.599 -->
00:24:04.880And any business relationship that I'll get into has to be founded on those values.
00:24:04.880 -->
00:24:08.240And off the back of that, then everything else seems to have a flow.
00:24:08.240 -->
00:24:10.000So do you mind expanding on that?
00:24:10.000 -->
00:24:11.599And is there any, would you share your values?
00:24:11.839 -->
00:24:18.720Yeah, I'll I'll share mine with the caveat that this is going to make me sound very egotistic and narcissist, but you know, with that on the table.
00:24:18.720 -->
00:24:20.400So my values are pretty simple.
00:24:20.400 -->
00:24:26.559And I went through a journey in life where um, you know, chemistry's refugee didn't have much money growing up, et cetera.
00:24:26.559 -->
00:24:28.160Mum and dad never had a home.
00:24:28.160 -->
00:24:30.400And so they always rented.
00:24:30.400 -->
00:24:34.880And then um, my sister and I had a conversation when we were like 17.
00:24:34.880 -->
00:24:44.720We were like, hey, the biggest liability, and it's gonna sound really bad, the biggest liability in our life is gonna be our parents, where we can't get to do the things we want to do because we always have to look after them, et cetera.
00:24:44.720 -->
00:24:49.119One of the things we could do is get them a house, get them sorted out.
00:24:49.119 -->
00:25:04.400And so, you know, at the age of 20, and my sister was 21, graduated first job, we bought a house for like, you know, $500,000 and we were getting paid $5,000 a month, and you know, um, our mortgage repayments was like $3,000 each or something like that.
00:25:04.400 -->
00:25:15.119And so the next probably set, that was 2011 to 2017, the next six years of my life was all about paying down the house.
00:25:15.119 -->
00:25:18.880So I worked in engineering and realized engineering didn't pay that uh that well.
00:25:18.880 -->
00:25:20.640And I was like, what's the next best paying job?
00:25:20.640 -->
00:25:21.279Probably in finance.
00:25:21.279 -->
00:25:22.960And I was like, oh, McKinsey pays really well.
00:25:22.960 -->
00:25:26.720So I went to McKinsey and you know, it's just it was all about paying down the house.
00:25:26.720 -->
00:25:30.240And in 2017, we paid down the house.
00:25:30.240 -->
00:25:32.240And I remember we're at 2 a.m.
00:25:32.240 -->
00:25:36.799at a bank doing some work, and I was just like, why am I doing this?
00:25:36.799 -->
00:25:37.200Right.
00:25:37.200 -->
00:25:38.640Like, I don't need to do this anymore.
00:25:38.640 -->
00:25:44.240I've paid off the house, I could do whatever I wanted, and um yeah, I could do anything I wanted.
00:25:44.240 -->
00:25:47.119And then all of a sudden I realized I actually don't know what to do in life.
00:25:47.119 -->
00:25:49.359Like I've had this one siloed view.
00:25:49.359 -->
00:25:54.240I actually didn't even know what I enjoyed, I didn't even know what my value was, et cetera.
00:25:54.240 -->
00:25:55.680And I went into depression.
00:25:55.680 -->
00:25:56.799I like really struggled.
00:25:56.799 -->
00:26:00.160I had to take six months off work, I couldn't function.
00:26:00.160 -->
00:26:01.839And then I did a bunch of wild things.
00:26:01.839 -->
00:26:04.799I did like um 10 day Vipassana retreat.
00:26:04.799 -->
00:26:08.720So 10 days not talking to anyone, silent meditation, 10 hours of meditation per day.
00:26:08.720 -->
00:26:12.400I maybe meditated 10 minutes my whole life and went full deep into this.
00:26:12.400 -->
00:26:14.960I did like wilderness walks, et cetera.
00:26:14.960 -->
00:26:19.359And through that, I discovered what my values were.
00:26:19.359 -->
00:26:23.759And it's really important to say that um I'm saying this to you.
00:26:23.759 -->
00:26:27.599And this could be just me just saying something that allows me to feel better.
00:26:27.599 -->
00:26:30.000This could be complete BS, or this could be true.
00:26:30.000 -->
00:26:30.640I don't know.
00:26:30.640 -->
00:26:34.319So my values, what it turned out to be was autonomy.
00:26:34.319 -->
00:26:40.559So being able to do this, you know, this is a weekday, we're doing this, like not to be able to be like, oh, I can't take time off work, et cetera.
00:26:40.559 -->
00:26:43.680I really wanted autonomy, sorry, uh, flexibility.
00:26:43.680 -->
00:26:45.119Second thing was autonomy.
00:26:45.119 -->
00:26:50.079So coming up with the goal and then having the freedom to execute versus having someone who steps it out.
00:26:50.079 -->
00:26:56.960Working with great people that when we're 60 years old, we're hanging around the campfire and we're sharing stories of the battle scars, et cetera.
00:26:56.960 -->
00:27:02.559And we, you know, you work with all these people that in the end you all become lifelong friends.
00:27:02.559 -->
00:27:09.440Um doing cool work, looking back and being able to brag to my grandkids about all the different stuffs that I've done.
00:27:09.440 -->
00:27:17.440And the last one is making good money today that allows us to go on holidays and a couple of other things, but having the shot at making life-changing money.
00:27:17.440 -->
00:27:28.240And so these things became probably from 2017 to now, everything that I've done in life more or less fits these things.
00:27:28.240 -->
00:27:32.799And as opportunities popped up, like some would resonate louder.
00:27:32.799 -->
00:27:45.039So when the one MRI opportunity pops up, it was like definitely resonated more in terms of the people and the type of work and the financial outcome, a little bit less around flexibility and autonomy, because as a founder, you know, that gets kind of taken away.
00:27:45.359 -->
00:27:48.960I remember the conversations for the last four years or so, the every conversation.
00:27:48.960 -->
00:27:55.039I think when I've lost my true note, that's all you bring it back saying this is why you want to do it and this is you know why we're doing it.
00:27:55.039 -->
00:28:08.480I even remember when you first um started thinking about offer fit, like the that whole process of deciding how you wanted to do it and and what you wanted to do with that business, you actually applied all of that.
00:28:08.480 -->
00:28:10.880And that's how you you've come to most of your decisions.
00:28:10.880 -->
00:28:16.640So I've I've got to say the fact that you've been able to stick to that true north has been really good to watch.
00:28:16.640 -->
00:28:22.079And I think some of the success that you've had in life is because you've always had your eye on the ball.
00:28:22.079 -->
00:28:25.440Vu, what's your I'll keep it really simple.
00:28:25.519 -->
00:28:27.440Uh life's too short to work with dickheads.
00:28:27.440 -->
00:28:29.119Like just to keep it really simple, right?
00:28:29.119 -->
00:28:36.640Like at the end of the day, what it really comes back to is Dopey was saying before, working with people you want to work with is super important.
00:28:36.640 -->
00:28:38.079I've worked with both of you before, right?
00:28:38.079 -->
00:28:40.240And so you get that that's what's really important to me.
00:28:40.240 -->
00:28:49.359I I've got a firm belief that like you know, but doing whatever it may be that we do will be successful in some way or form.
00:28:49.359 -->
00:28:55.599So if you have if you believe that you're gonna be successful, then the answer is just who do you want to go on that journey with, right?
00:28:55.599 -->
00:29:07.759Like one of the best things, and it's kind of related to it's not so much a values piece, but um to orientate you in terms of sort of the luck that I've had is I've got an older brother who's 10 years older than me, right?
00:29:07.759 -->
00:29:09.839Vin, he's a general practitioner.
00:29:09.839 -->
00:29:11.359I've always looked up to him.
00:29:11.359 -->
00:29:13.759He's sort of been my idol since I was a kid, right?
00:29:13.759 -->
00:29:27.440And when I was 15, 16, getting ready to choose my subjects for year 11 and 12, which back then feels like you're choosing the bearing of what job you're gonna have, and what job you're gonna have is pretty much gonna dictate the next 45 years of your life as a 16-year-old.
00:29:27.440 -->
00:29:36.720Um thing he said to me, which he will never remember saying to me, but I remember it because it sticks with me to this day, is that Vu, you're gonna be successful at anything you do.
00:29:36.720 -->
00:29:39.359So do whatever the hell you want.
00:29:39.359 -->
00:29:45.599And that's that that to a 16-year-old kid is huge, right?
00:29:45.599 -->
00:29:48.480Especially when it comes from someone that you really look up to and admire.
00:29:48.880 -->
00:29:49.759It's got goosebumps.
00:29:49.759 -->
00:29:54.799That reminds me, my my mum used to say that to me is whatever you put your mind to, you can do.
00:29:54.799 -->
00:29:58.480And and I think as a like you said, as a kid, that's that's powerful.
00:29:58.799 -->
00:30:01.920Well, because then you turn that a flip it on its head and saying, okay, cool.
00:30:01.920 -->
00:30:03.680So now what do I want to do?
00:30:03.680 -->
00:30:12.400Because if it if if if all roads lead to success, whatever success is defined as, then the answer is going, well, okay, how do I cook this in a way that I'm actually going to enjoy it?
00:30:12.400 -->
00:30:12.799Right.
00:30:12.799 -->
00:30:18.000And so that principle has always come back to working with people I love working with, right?
00:30:18.000 -->
00:30:19.680And that's super, super important.
00:30:19.680 -->
00:30:25.839So if I if I say to you, Don, no matter what you do, what business you start or what you do, you're gonna be successful.
00:30:25.839 -->
00:30:30.640Then you're gonna be like, you know what, I'm gonna pick and choose the right people to do that, go on this journey with, right?
00:30:30.640 -->
00:30:34.640Um, because and that that for me is it's it's a bit of a weird way to look at it.
00:30:34.640 -->
00:30:40.240It's not a uh a uh, I guess, a a bit about self-belief.
00:30:40.240 -->
00:30:46.160It's this idea of like, if you believe this is what's gonna occur, then how do you kind of make sure that journey is a bit that you want?
00:30:46.160 -->
00:30:54.480Like Gopi and I, and you introduced me this concept of we're in our mid-60s, we're sitting around a campfire, and the people who are sitting around with us and we're talking to them, right?
00:30:54.480 -->
00:30:55.759Who are those people?
00:30:55.759 -->
00:31:00.400And who are those people we've built relationships with over the pleading 30 to 40 years?
00:31:00.400 -->
00:31:06.400And we talk about that from the investors we talk to, the customers we work with, the people we employ.
00:31:06.400 -->
00:31:19.039Like that campfire analogy you mentioned before, which you and I talk about all the time and you introduce me to, is kind of a really important principle of like what sort of people do you want to work with, and therefore what sort of business do you want to operate.
00:31:19.279 -->
00:31:19.680Yep.
00:31:19.680 -->
00:31:24.079Let's talk about mistakes because I think that's one of the things that defines us.
00:31:24.079 -->
00:31:32.640And um, I know through my own personal journey and I know some couple of young blokes at the moment, they've had a great deal of success.
00:31:32.640 -->
00:31:36.960They're not even hit mid-20s yet, but they haven't gone through the fire, they haven't gone through the storm.
00:31:36.960 -->
00:31:40.720And I think that is a real character-defining moment.
00:31:40.720 -->
00:31:45.200Do you guys mind sharing the the biggest mistake that you've made and what you learned from it?
00:31:45.440 -->
00:31:46.799Oh man, there's too many.
00:31:46.799 -->
00:31:49.039Uh that's why I said the best one.
00:31:49.039 -->
00:31:57.359Oh, look, I think um if I look back at it and if I use sort of because we're still on the One MRI journey, right?
00:31:57.359 -->
00:32:14.000But if I think about Go One, which for me is like a really great and like sort of big first chapter or first act of kind of my professional, like my my adult life, actually, because started doing Go One with Andrew when we were 16, what eventually became Go One, and you know, 37 this year.
00:32:14.240 -->
00:32:17.519Maybe do you mind just uh briefly explaining to our listeners what is Go One?
00:32:17.519 -->
00:32:17.759Yeah.
00:32:18.400 -->
00:32:30.960I wouldn't mind, you know, I was part of that journey, but I wouldn't mind you telling us about that journey because that's I think one of the most inspirational stories to come out of Australia, Brisbane from a small town in Logan.
00:32:31.200 -->
00:32:37.599Uh I'll I'll keep it brief, but but ultimately, you know, the way I like to describe Go One to people is think of us as the Spotify for workplace learning.
00:32:37.599 -->
00:32:46.799What we do is we aggregate training from all across the world, from a whole bunch of different providers, about 100,000 courses, put them all into one location and make them available to workplaces.
00:32:46.799 -->
00:32:48.319So a B2B business, right?
00:32:48.319 -->
00:32:50.480And you worked in our B2B team, Don.
00:32:50.480 -->
00:32:58.799And we're very fortunate in that we didn't start out going, you know what, as senior olds, we said, we are going to be the Spotify for workplace learning.
00:32:58.799 -->
00:32:59.680We didn't do that at all.
00:32:59.680 -->
00:33:02.240We started off just building websites and building apps.
00:33:02.240 -->
00:33:03.200We we knew two things.
00:33:03.200 -->
00:33:06.480One, we wanted to work in technology, and two, we wanted to work with each other.
00:33:06.480 -->
00:33:07.039That was it.
00:33:07.039 -->
00:33:08.960Everything else kind of came second.
00:33:08.960 -->
00:33:17.200Along the way, we built throughout high school and university, we built a professional services business, building websites, building applications to people.
00:33:17.200 -->
00:33:27.200And then we got to a stage where post-GFC, um you guys remember, GFC didn't really hit us in Australia until really 2010-11, even though it's 2008.
00:33:27.200 -->
00:33:30.000We just it didn't really, we didn't feel it until that point.
00:33:30.000 -->
00:33:37.119And so that's when people stopped buying websites, buying apps, and they just kind of their their budgets just kind of stretched a lot more, right?
00:33:37.119 -->
00:33:43.200And I remember getting to that crunch point and Andrew calling us together and saying, We need to jettison our business.
00:33:43.200 -->
00:33:45.599I was going, wait, what?
00:33:45.599 -->
00:33:48.960And you know, we'd we'd spent years building this up.
00:33:48.960 -->
00:33:54.000We had a team of about 15 people, you know, it was it was painful, but we're still building something.
00:33:54.000 -->
00:33:56.640It was our identity, a big part of our identity.
00:33:56.640 -->
00:34:01.359And he said, Look, we don't own any of the stuff we make.
00:34:01.359 -->
00:34:07.680And if we were to look back on this in 10, 15, 20 years' time, would we look on it back on it and go, the stuff we did was awesome?
00:34:07.680 -->
00:34:08.480The stuff we did is great.
00:34:08.480 -->
00:34:11.199This is very similar to the stuff you're talking about that motivated you.
00:34:11.199 -->
00:34:14.000And at the time we had several different little businesses.
00:34:14.000 -->
00:34:18.400In fact, we were one of the very first Salesforce implementation companies in Australia.
00:34:18.400 -->
00:34:23.599So News Limited and the big banks, whenever they wanted to implement Salesforce, they'd send it to this small little firm.
00:34:23.599 -->
00:34:28.079And we used to send a fully loaded bar to the Salesforce sales team every Friday.
00:34:28.079 -->
00:34:29.119So they'd send us leads.
00:34:29.119 -->
00:34:30.639I don't know if I should say that, but I will, right?
00:34:30.639 -->
00:34:31.760And so they used to send us leads.
00:34:31.760 -->
00:34:39.519So if you went and bought Salesforce licenses back then, and this is very early on for Salesforce when they just came to Australia, their sales team would be like, well, if you want to implement it, go talk to these boys, right?
00:34:39.760 -->
00:34:42.239And you can't even say it, but like one of the banks, one of the big four banks.
00:34:42.239 -->
00:34:43.840One of the website.
00:34:44.079 -->
00:34:44.320Exactly.
00:34:44.320 -->
00:34:46.480So we we built this, like we built some really good stuff.
00:34:46.480 -->
00:34:49.440And so we had this business that I thought was pretty sizable and pretty good.
00:34:49.440 -->
00:34:52.159We weren't making lots of money, but we built something.
00:34:52.159 -->
00:34:58.719And Andrew, and and and you guys both know Andrew, like, you know, Andrew sees stuff before other people do.
00:34:58.719 -->
00:35:01.039And it's something that I will always bring up.
00:35:01.039 -->
00:35:08.000He'll see things before they do, and it'll take a while for me to just catch up mentally and go, oh, okay, that's what he meant.
00:35:08.000 -->
00:35:11.519And one of the things he said was he was like, we don't own it.
00:35:11.519 -->
00:35:14.480We don't own Salesforce, we don't own the open source system we're building.
00:35:14.480 -->
00:35:18.000And none of it is stuff that we'd kind of be super proud of at the end of the day, right?
00:35:18.000 -->
00:35:19.760We're just building stuff for other people.
00:35:19.760 -->
00:35:31.840One of the projects we did build for another bank was actually, well, for National Australia Bank was something called the Start Counting Program, which was teaching financial literacy to their consumers, especially their lower socioeconomic consumers.
00:35:31.840 -->
00:35:36.719And of all the projects we worked on, that was the one we looked at and we go, we love that.
00:35:36.719 -->
00:35:38.960We lost a bucket load of money doing it.
00:35:38.960 -->
00:35:40.639It was highly unprofitable, right?
00:35:40.639 -->
00:35:46.559But I don't know if you guys remember Marie Kondo, you know, the Netflix show where it's like you pick up a sweater and you go, Does this bring me joy?
00:35:46.559 -->
00:35:47.440And if not, chuck it out.
00:35:47.440 -->
00:35:48.480And if it does keep it.
00:35:48.480 -->
00:35:51.039We literally did that with our business units, right?
00:35:51.039 -->
00:35:57.360And when we Marie Kondoed the business, what we ended up with was 99% of it was out the door.
00:35:57.360 -->
00:36:03.199And the 1% we wanted to keep was the thing that was least profitable, but gave us the most purpose, which was learning.
00:36:03.199 -->
00:36:08.719And then so we went and restructured the business and focused on learning and jettisoned a whole bunch of stuff.
00:36:08.719 -->
00:36:11.840And then we went through an accelerator called Y Combinator or YC.
00:36:11.840 -->
00:36:18.239And then we got in and went through the whole journey of raising a seed round, a pre-seed round, a seed round, a series A, B, C, D.
00:36:18.239 -->
00:36:21.599I think all up we raised three to four hundred million dollars to be able to build the company.
00:36:21.920 -->
00:36:23.840What are you guys worth uh valued at now?
00:36:23.840 -->
00:36:24.639I have no idea.
00:36:24.880 -->
00:36:27.360Two billion, two to three billion, something like that, right?
00:36:27.360 -->
00:36:30.159Depends where the Australian dollar is at, how people want to value SAST.
00:36:30.159 -->
00:36:32.480I think there was 4.5 billion at one thing.
00:36:32.480 -->
00:36:44.320So But what I'd come back to is not just on the valuation front, but if you think about the sort of what we're able to create, we got to a stage where we had just under a thousand stuff across 22 countries globally, and we did it all from Southeast Queensland.
00:36:44.320 -->
00:36:50.000And what I really learned along that journey was kind of what I do like and what I don't like, right?
00:36:50.000 -->
00:36:53.199What I'm not made for is the corporate world, right?
00:36:53.199 -->
00:36:59.199I'm not made for optimizing an op-to-win ratio by an extra 0.5% to bring an extra 20 million bucks.
00:36:59.199 -->
00:37:00.800That's not really on the radar.
00:37:00.800 -->
00:37:03.280What I do enjoy is being at the coalface, right?
00:37:03.280 -->
00:37:08.559And for us figuring stuff out and building stuff from the early stage, as Gopi likes to say the zero to one sort of part.
00:37:08.559 -->
00:37:09.840I really do enjoy.
00:37:09.840 -->
00:37:17.119And so for me, the biggest sort of byproduct of the go on experience was actually learning a lot about myself and what I do enjoy doing.
00:37:17.119 -->
00:37:22.000What I do enjoy doing is working at the early stage, figuring out stuff out from first principles.
00:37:22.000 -->
00:37:27.360I one thing I'll always say about founders, and you guys, I'm sure you will agree with this, and Gopi hinted at it.
00:37:27.360 -->
00:37:30.960As founders, we are all utterly unemployable.
00:37:31.679 -->
00:37:32.239Utterly unemployable.
00:37:32.239 -->
00:37:33.199I agree completely.
00:37:33.440 -->
00:37:33.679Yeah.
00:37:33.679 -->
00:37:36.480So as a result of that, we create our own jobs, right?
00:37:36.480 -->
00:37:43.039We we create businesses, roles, and opportunities for ourselves, that desire for autonomy that Gopi was talking about before.
00:37:43.360 -->
00:37:44.079I totally agree.
00:37:44.079 -->
00:37:46.480Even when you're working for someone, you try to create your own jobs.
00:37:46.480 -->
00:37:50.159And that's what I've been doing for the last since go on, I guess.
00:37:50.159 -->
00:37:54.400And I had my own uh founder journey, which started in 2016.
00:37:54.400 -->
00:37:56.159And I don't know if you guys remember or not.
00:37:56.159 -->
00:38:03.920I actually, first time I came to that Logan office was to find a learning solution that we couldn't find a solution from anyone else.
00:38:03.920 -->
00:38:12.480And someone said to go and talk to these young kids that are doing it, we had to deliver this learning solution to Harvey Norman.
00:38:12.480 -->
00:38:18.880And everywhere we went to, they said it's gonna take you three months and gonna cost you about $50,000.
00:38:18.880 -->
00:38:23.679We walked into this Logan office above a massage parlor and we're like, where are we going?
00:38:23.679 -->
00:38:25.760And I sent my team up, I said, I'm not even going out there.
00:38:25.760 -->
00:38:27.519I think they're gonna waste our time.
00:38:27.519 -->
00:38:28.719You're gonna lose a kidney.
00:38:28.719 -->
00:38:33.119And I got a text saying they can do it next week, $10,000.
00:38:33.119 -->
00:38:33.440Yeah.
00:38:33.440 -->
00:38:36.960I'm like, whoa, this is this is crazy.
00:38:36.960 -->
00:38:43.920And fast forward four years, I ended up working for these guys, but it starts with one of the biggest things I want to say, uh ask you as well.
00:38:43.920 -->
00:38:49.840For me, when I first met Vu and Andrew, I think the first time or Chris, that was it.
00:38:49.840 -->
00:38:55.199Like you talk to these guys, it was sort of like you want to be part of this, you want to work with these guys.
00:38:55.199 -->
00:38:58.800How important is it to have the right people around you at the right time?
00:38:59.119 -->
00:38:59.519100%.
00:38:59.519 -->
00:39:10.800Like, you know, I uh Gopi's got this great LinkedIn post where he was talking about how we started One MRI and you've posted the WhatsApp chat where I texted you saying, ready to be CEO, right?
00:39:10.800 -->
00:39:12.079And you said always.
00:39:12.079 -->
00:39:15.840And it was like, wasn't really sure the exact topic of how we're gonna do it.
00:39:15.840 -->
00:39:20.000But it was this thing where, and and you know, you've known Gopi for a long time as well.
00:39:20.000 -->
00:39:22.639You meet people and you go, I want to work with you.
00:39:22.639 -->
00:39:26.880I don't know how, I don't know when, I don't know where, but we gotta find a way, right?
00:39:26.880 -->
00:39:32.239And that for me is kind of one of those learnings that I took away from that first experience in Go One.
00:39:32.239 -->
00:39:37.440Like, you know, I I I stepped back officially a year and a half ago.
00:39:37.440 -->
00:39:47.199So tell me any other business you can think of where founders have been together as a founding team of four for going on 15 to 20 years.
00:39:47.199 -->
00:39:49.280It just doesn't exist, right?
00:39:49.280 -->
00:40:00.559And that's where I think a really important part of it is I go back to that principle of like being able to, if you if you strongly believe you're gonna be successful, then the next step is going, who do you want to enjoy that journey with?
00:40:00.559 -->
00:40:00.800Right?
00:40:00.800 -->
00:40:02.960You're gonna climb that mountain, you know you're gonna get to the top.
00:40:02.960 -->
00:40:05.199The question's gonna go, who do you want to pop champagne with at the top?
00:40:05.440 -->
00:40:06.719But how do you find that timing?
00:40:06.719 -->
00:40:09.440Because, you know, Gopi, uh we've had many conversations.
00:40:09.440 -->
00:40:13.039I think you said many times, like you want to find an opportunity to work with Andrew.
00:40:13.039 -->
00:40:16.000Like you keep you you you were catching up with him every quarter.
00:40:16.000 -->
00:40:16.320Yeah.
00:40:16.320 -->
00:40:20.880And like, how do you how do you find when is that right time?
00:40:20.880 -->
00:40:21.920How do you pick that time?
00:40:22.079 -->
00:40:24.079Timing's No, sometimes it just has to work.
00:40:24.079 -->
00:40:27.039I mean, like the way I met Andrew first was to a job interview.
00:40:27.039 -->
00:40:34.719Um An from 1013, uh, you know, I was a uh 2017, actually off the back of, you know, the whole soul searching and stuff.
00:40:34.719 -->
00:40:36.719And he was like, hey, why don't you have a chat with Andrew?
00:40:36.719 -->
00:40:38.400Go on, like it looks pretty interesting.
00:40:38.400 -->
00:40:41.039I had a chat with Andrew and it didn't feel right.
00:40:41.039 -->
00:40:47.760And so I was like, here's someone I really want to work with, but um, this doesn't seem like the right setting, et cetera.
00:40:47.760 -->
00:40:51.760Um, but I think that sometimes things just come through.
00:40:51.760 -->
00:40:56.800And and also sometimes you never know how it's gonna play out in terms of that working relationship.
00:40:56.800 -->
00:40:58.800Because this relationship could have never worked out.
00:40:58.800 -->
00:41:08.639Um, but last night, you know, as down at the coast, sorry now, Saturday night, down at the coast, I was writing a memo of like the future of Wanamara and where things are going, et cetera.
00:41:08.639 -->
00:41:10.800And there was a couple of double points I couldn't get my head around.
00:41:10.800 -->
00:41:14.400So I called Andrew and I was like, hey, um, can we just chat through this really quickly?
00:41:14.400 -->
00:41:15.440And then we started talking.
00:41:15.440 -->
00:41:17.199Andrew's like, hey, hold up, what are you trying to do?
00:41:17.199 -->
00:41:18.719I'm like, I'm just trying to write this memo.
00:41:18.719 -->
00:41:22.239It's for myself anyway, but I'm, you know, hopefully we can share with other investors, et cetera.
00:41:22.239 -->
00:41:24.400And then we started bouncing around the memo, et cetera.
00:41:24.400 -->
00:41:26.960Next morning, Andrew sends a memo to us.
00:41:26.960 -->
00:41:28.480He's like, hey, I've written something up.
00:41:28.480 -->
00:41:29.360And I'm like, oh, cool.
00:41:29.360 -->
00:41:31.760This is what I and quickly like bouncing off it.
00:41:31.760 -->
00:41:38.559And I always admired Amazon's the whole six-page memo, writing memo before meetings and stuff like that.
00:41:38.559 -->
00:41:40.000And it's pretty cool.
00:41:40.000 -->
00:41:43.360I've got three, no, two co-founders who also love that.
00:41:43.360 -->
00:41:45.599And we write papers before meetings.
00:41:45.599 -->
00:41:52.480Like you sit down and write long-form papers where you actually write out your thought and people read it ahead of time and then you chat about it.
00:41:52.480 -->
00:41:57.840And so sometimes it's just luck that you know all of that kind of comes together.
00:41:57.840 -->
00:42:01.199But I think the big thing is the no-ego.
00:42:01.199 -->
00:42:11.119I think just being able to leave the ego at the door and kind of walk in and take the idea for the face value as it is, giving people the room to be themselves.
00:42:11.119 -->
00:42:23.760So when Vu calls me, um, sometimes our conversation is 10 minutes, sometimes the conversation is an hour, but I never kind of go, hey, we're on a shot clock, like we need to wrap it up, just because the faith of where we're going to end up is going to be a much better, bigger, better place.
00:42:23.760 -->
00:42:32.000Um, similar thing with Andrew, when we kind of go into problem solving and stuff like that, we just give each other the space to be us.
00:42:32.000 -->
00:42:37.840And so one of the things about Andrew is that quickly, Andrew will get to three steps ahead of me than I can be.
00:42:37.840 -->
00:42:44.480And so one of the best things I can do in a conversation is take a step back, give Andrew the space to grab onto the wheel, and we'll get to there.
00:42:44.480 -->
00:42:47.280And along the way, my input will be heard, et cetera.
00:42:47.280 -->
00:42:50.400But it's quite easy to kind of go, no, like this was my discussion.
00:42:50.400 -->
00:42:51.679I'm going to shape it.
00:42:51.679 -->
00:42:55.840And that ego kind of like gets in the way of getting a better outcome.
00:42:55.840 -->
00:43:00.079And because we're also outcome-driven, it's the outcome that only matters.
00:43:00.079 -->
00:43:02.239Nothing else matters, like the process and everything doesn't matter.
00:43:02.559 -->
00:43:08.000And I think it slows down to you talked about um founder groups, you know, lasting for so long.
00:43:08.000 -->
00:43:12.639Um, but didn't you take it from I I was I joined the journey quite early.
00:43:12.639 -->
00:43:16.320There was five of us at the end, there was there was this division that we created.
00:43:16.320 -->
00:43:20.719And I don't I don't think any of us have worked at go one for the last five years.
00:43:20.719 -->
00:43:25.920But when we finished at go one, we slowly started this poker game.
00:43:25.920 -->
00:43:32.320Um it started as a dinner once a month, and then it sort of evolved into this poker game.
00:43:32.320 -->
00:43:37.840And over the last five years, we have not missed a single game or a single catch-up.
00:43:37.840 -->
00:43:39.599And I've never heard of that.
00:43:39.599 -->
00:43:45.440And when I tell people like we we did that as a way to catch up after we left Girl One.
00:43:45.760 -->
00:43:59.840And it was I would say on my part, it was incredibly intentional because when you know people move on and you kind of move out of a business, you go, is this it do like our our reason for being connected was work, right?
00:44:00.159 -->
00:44:00.320Yeah.
00:44:00.320 -->
00:44:00.719Yeah.
00:44:01.039 -->
00:44:05.599And that intentionality of going, well, actually, we work really well as a team.
00:44:05.599 -->
00:44:08.719You know, we we we enjoy spending time with each other.
00:44:08.719 -->
00:44:10.800Let's put some intentionality behind that.
00:44:10.800 -->
00:44:16.320It really helped, and we're saying this before, that our team's project manager is a guy who coordinates us and pulls us all together.
00:44:16.320 -->
00:44:16.719Right.
00:44:16.719 -->
00:44:19.119But it is that we give credit to John.
00:44:19.199 -->
00:44:19.360Yeah.
00:44:19.360 -->
00:44:20.719John is an amazing project.
00:44:21.039 -->
00:44:32.159But like, yeah, again, that that poker game, like it it for me, it's a it's a big chunk of going on the journey with people that you would spend time with and generally choose to spend time with.
00:44:32.159 -->
00:44:42.079And I do think that, you know, the fact that we do catch up every month with the guys and we do play poker together and we all work together in some way or form at Go One kind of proves to me, at least personally, that like, yeah.
00:44:42.079 -->
00:44:43.199The culture was right.
00:44:43.199 -->
00:44:43.920Well, it was right.
00:44:43.920 -->
00:44:51.199And we also had a team of people who are happy to spend time with each other years after we leave that workplace together.
00:44:51.199 -->
00:44:51.519Right.
00:44:51.519 -->
00:44:53.519That's that's the really cool part that I enjoy.
00:44:53.519 -->
00:45:01.760And I do think uh, you know, going back to sort of that that point you were making before Gopi around like also that ego piece, right?
00:45:01.760 -->
00:45:10.960Like I think that that's one thing that we'll find from a values perspective of all the people that it I choose to spend time with, and you know a lot of them, and you know a lot of them.
00:45:10.960 -->
00:45:12.480That's a really common thread.
00:45:12.480 -->
00:45:16.320Like we pick and choose who we get close to and who we don't get close to, right?
00:45:16.320 -->
00:45:29.440And that that that that no ego bit or checking, we I would say that every single one of us has a very high degree of self-confidence and self-assurance in terms of the fact that we know we're good, we know what we can do, we know what we're good at.
00:45:29.440 -->
00:45:31.760But it's not to the point that it we're ego driven.
00:45:31.760 -->
00:45:42.400And that is, you know, now that you talk about that go be like that's that's a that's not an explicit value that I think about, but it's one that if I look at all my relationships, it's a super important one.
00:45:42.400 -->
00:45:53.360Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of people who have big egos, but the sphere that they come into contact with me is very far, that orbit is very different to the people who are in the closer orbit, if that makes sense.
00:45:53.599 -->
00:45:54.880Oh, that's a hundred percent good point.
00:45:54.880 -->
00:46:00.480I know a lady, and she actually runs a group, and we all belong to a similar networking group, I understand.
00:46:00.480 -->
00:46:04.320And that is very fixated on what your title is.
00:46:04.320 -->
00:46:09.760And you when you're in a business environment, most of the time you're always introduced by your title.
00:46:09.760 -->
00:46:11.760You're this or you're a former this.
00:46:11.760 -->
00:46:14.320And that comes back to an identity piece.
00:46:14.320 -->
00:46:21.280And in a previous life, I ran a large commercial construction company, and I'm a very relationship-driven person.
00:46:21.280 -->
00:46:25.119And I'd built a bunch of relationships through that firm.
00:46:25.119 -->
00:46:30.559And then after I'd exited and I'd make a phone call or send a text, hey mate, you want to have a cup of coffee?
00:46:30.559 -->
00:46:33.360All of a sudden, there's there's no answer.
00:46:33.360 -->
00:46:37.360And they were all associated with what I could do as part of that role.
00:46:37.360 -->
00:46:38.239Transactional.
00:46:38.320 -->
00:46:38.480Yeah.
00:46:38.719 -->
00:46:40.000100% transactional.
00:46:40.000 -->
00:46:44.239So what this lady does, this group that she runs, and they do it, she calls it a soul table.
00:46:44.239 -->
00:46:46.480And there's a dozen people that get invited along.
00:46:46.480 -->
00:46:51.599As you walk into that room, you're forbidden to talk about what you do or what position you hold.
00:46:51.599 -->
00:46:54.159And so people walk in, they go, What am I going to say?
00:46:54.159 -->
00:46:57.760And what she says is just ask the person, what are you passionate about?
00:46:57.760 -->
00:47:04.000So all of a sudden, you're getting to know that person at a deeper level, and then you can understand there's some common ground.
00:47:04.000 -->
00:47:14.320Like you start talking about values, for example, or whatever, but it's taking away that the CEO, that other mindset that you're not actually looking at it from a transactional perspective.
00:47:14.320 -->
00:47:21.840Because again, from some of these networking groups, it's all about I'm going to go and talk to that bloke because I think that they might be able to do something for me.
00:47:21.840 -->
00:47:26.320And it's not, well, I want to actually get to know that person because I've got shared values with that person.
00:47:26.320 -->
00:47:27.840So I think that's a really good point.
00:47:27.840 -->
00:47:30.880But back on my original question, what's the biggest mistake that you've made?
00:47:31.280 -->
00:47:32.239Yeah, that's what I was glad to do.
00:47:32.239 -->
00:47:34.400What's the original question?
00:47:34.400 -->
00:47:35.360You take this one line.
00:47:36.559 -->
00:47:44.079For me, I think it's like um, it's gonna sound really small, but the first house we bought was probably one of the biggest mistakes I made.
00:47:44.079 -->
00:47:47.199And it was because of the thought process into buying the house.
00:47:47.199 -->
00:47:52.320Um, uh, you know, uh paid mum and dad's house off in 2017.
00:47:52.320 -->
00:47:55.199And then I was like, oh, it's probably a good time to kind of like buy the next place.
00:47:55.199 -->
00:48:00.159So um my wife now, but partner at the time, we were like looking for a house, et cetera.
00:48:00.159 -->
00:48:02.079And there's two things I did.
00:48:02.079 -->
00:48:07.360One was I bought one which was significantly well within my comfort zone.
00:48:07.360 -->
00:48:15.199And the second one was I because it was well within my comfort zone, I didn't even transact with the interaction, I didn't even interact with the transaction that much.
00:48:15.199 -->
00:48:17.039I bought it without seeing it.
00:48:17.039 -->
00:48:20.639I um only saw it the day that we got the key and kind of like walked in.
00:48:20.639 -->
00:48:22.239I was like, oh wow, this is what we bought.
00:48:22.239 -->
00:48:29.679But I think this this thing that I later on I realized in life, which was like never do anything for marginal improvement.
00:48:29.679 -->
00:48:33.840It's kind of like if you're gonna, the transaction cost is just not worth it.
00:48:33.840 -->
00:48:38.320And that's from both, from money, time, effort, all of the above.
00:48:38.320 -->
00:48:46.159So if you're switching jobs just to switch for a little bit of more money or a little bit of more role, et cetera, it's just never gonna be worth it.
00:48:46.159 -->
00:48:48.000Always go for the big thing.
00:48:48.000 -->
00:49:01.119And um, yeah, it's it's just one of those things where like um just that mistake of not like backing myself, seeing the bigger picture, kind of going after it, like always stays with me.
00:49:01.119 -->
00:49:03.119And that was 2017 or like a long time ago.
00:49:03.119 -->
00:49:04.559There's a couple of pieces in that.
00:49:04.559 -->
00:49:09.599One is like, you know, um, we were living in an apartment and we bought a house that was exactly the same as our apartment.
00:49:09.599 -->
00:49:10.719So we could have just stayed in an apartment.
00:49:10.719 -->
00:49:11.679That was the first one.
00:49:11.679 -->
00:49:16.559Uh, the second one was not looking ahead, so then kind of going, hey, we're gonna start a family and stuff like that.
00:49:16.559 -->
00:49:18.000Where do we want to be, etc.?
00:49:18.000 -->
00:49:22.800Third one is backing ourselves, kind of going like, hey, like we're gonna be good financially.
00:49:22.800 -->
00:49:25.840Like, why don't we just move to the bigger piece?
00:49:25.840 -->
00:49:30.159I think this is the bit where being the refugee really hangs on you for a long time.
00:49:30.159 -->
00:49:39.599Like that time of like not having money and really struggling, you're always like, um, oh, I've just got to make sure that like in a rainy day, you know, I'm gonna be okay.
00:49:39.599 -->
00:49:42.800And then the rainy day, you know, I'm 37 now hasn't come yet.
00:49:42.800 -->
00:49:53.599And so um, yeah, like there's a there's a few things in that, but it was it was that event brought all of those lessons to life.
00:49:53.599 -->
00:50:00.800Like it was reflecting back always on that thing, and I still make the same mistakes, you know, in individual formats, but in some smaller ways.
00:50:00.800 -->
00:50:03.760But that that event like really kind of taught me a lot.
00:50:04.079 -->
00:50:05.280What about you, though?
00:50:05.280 -->
00:50:10.000I have been sitting here for the last few minutes, and and I don't want this to come across the wrong way.
00:50:10.000 -->
00:50:13.679I can't think explicitly of anything, right?
00:50:13.679 -->
00:50:29.119And this is me Don and Gopi knowing well enough that I'm not not normally lost words, but but like genuinely as as I think about it, I go gun against my head, what mistakes have I made that like what have I done that I really regret?
00:50:29.119 -->
00:50:36.000And I'm sure in the moment or in the day or in the month or in the quarter or in the year, I think about it and I go, man, that was a stupid thing to do.
00:50:36.000 -->
00:50:51.920But I always, if I look back on these things in hindsight, I go, it was either learn experience or it wasn't a big deal, or it wasn't as existential as I thought it would be, which probably makes me think going, holy cows, what have I done where I've got to sort of pay the piper soon in terms of realizing it was a mistake.
00:50:51.920 -->
00:50:53.840It's just I'm a few years away from realizing that.
00:50:54.239 -->
00:50:58.239Or everything you said before has facilitated that, right?
00:50:58.239 -->
00:51:00.159The right journey, the right people around you.
00:51:00.159 -->
00:51:03.679If things go wrong, you have other people to back you up.
00:51:03.920 -->
00:51:11.679I I can I can look at so many different small, look in my eyes, small things that I've done, which life would be better if I had done them.
00:51:11.679 -->
00:51:16.000But I look back and I go, I don't regret any of those things occurring because it gets me to where I am today.
00:51:16.000 -->
00:51:25.760I think I've got to, you know, I I I I I see a psychologist regularly, I've I've seen one for a long time to help me understand a bit more about my own head.
00:51:25.760 -->
00:51:27.679And I've I speak to Gopi a lot after our session.
00:51:27.679 -->
00:51:30.000I go, hey man, this is what I covered today and this is what I learned.
00:51:30.000 -->
00:51:44.159And a big part of it is I feel like in the last few years, one thing I've become relatively, and I'm not always there, relatively more content with like right with what I said at the start is like dealing with what's in front of me and not thinking too far ahead.
00:51:44.159 -->
00:51:53.920And a big chunk of it is if I look back, I go, there's nothing where I go, what's happening in my life today that I wish I did something different that would have changed where I am today.
00:51:53.920 -->
00:51:55.840And I go, well, actually, I'm really happy where I am today.
00:51:56.159 -->
00:51:59.440Can I rephrase that question in a different way, Ru, than for you?
00:51:59.440 -->
00:52:01.840Is there anything that you would have done differently?
00:52:02.079 -->
00:52:03.199No, that's what I'm trying to say.
00:52:03.199 -->
00:52:07.840Like anything literally, I've been reframing while Gopi's been buying me time for this conversation.
00:52:08.159 -->
00:52:19.840I I understand where you're coming from because I've asked that question in the past to guests, and where they're going with their answer is effectively that you are where you are as a as a consequence of some of the mistakes that you've made.
00:52:19.840 -->
00:52:22.079And if you wouldn't have made them, you wouldn't be where you are today.
00:52:22.239 -->
00:52:29.039I'll give you some really superficial examples of going, I held a buttload of NVIDIA before it became what it is today, right?
00:52:29.039 -->
00:52:30.480A shitload.
00:52:30.480 -->
00:52:34.960And that would be a massive financial winfall today if I didn't offload it.
00:52:34.960 -->
00:52:38.320But the flip side that I come back to is I go, I'm okay with that.
00:52:38.320 -->
00:52:42.880Like I'm genuinely like, I don't wake up at night and go, man, I wish I didn't sell all that NVIDIA, right?
00:52:42.880 -->
00:52:52.000On the flip side of it is that like I like so there's a whole bunch of examples like that, but I don't like nothing kind of comes to mind that I dwell on it.
00:52:52.000 -->
00:52:54.719There's a lot of bad calls in our organized.
00:52:59.199 -->
00:53:00.079I got a half reset.
00:53:00.079 -->
00:53:08.639But I think what about um things that like so I I'll I'll say one of Vu's sayings and then you tell me what triggered that um event.
00:53:08.639 -->
00:53:12.880So one of you one of your biggest best things is not sweating the small stuff.
00:53:12.880 -->
00:53:13.280Yep.
00:53:13.280 -->
00:53:15.440How did you learn to not sweat the small stuff?
00:53:15.599 -->
00:53:16.480That is such okay, that's good.
00:53:16.480 -->
00:53:18.880See, this is why it's good to have someone who knows you really well, right?
00:53:18.880 -->
00:53:25.840So not sweating the small stuff was the anxiety that I would develop as a founder over things that are in hindsight.
00:53:25.840 -->
00:53:30.159You look at it and you go, man, they were inconsequential, or you'll sort them out, right?
00:53:30.159 -->
00:53:31.760And the problem is it's twofold.
00:53:31.760 -->
00:53:32.960Um, thank you for giving me that.
00:53:32.960 -->
00:53:34.800So I'll give you twofold.
00:53:34.800 -->
00:53:39.039So one is when you sweat the small stuff and you miss the big ass friggin' problem, right?
00:53:39.039 -->
00:53:41.039So that's the first bit that would come to you.
00:53:41.039 -->
00:53:43.920You're so worried about the micro, you're missing the macro.
00:53:43.920 -->
00:53:52.320You're so worried about what's happening with this customer, you miss the fact that you're missing the entire market and you're fishing in the wrong place, as an example, right?
00:53:52.320 -->
00:53:55.440So the don't sweat the small stuff is twofold.
00:53:55.440 -->
00:54:01.679One is the amount of anxiety we develop as business owners and founders over things that are minutia.
00:54:01.679 -->
00:54:09.039Like the things I'll often, you know, we'll we'll talk about, we go, you know, there's there's don't sweat the small stuff combined with the world keeps turning.
00:54:09.039 -->
00:54:09.760Right.
00:54:09.760 -->
00:54:16.400So what that means is if I do this thing that I'm stressed about right now, if I get it done, does it move the needle?
00:54:16.400 -->
00:54:17.280Okay, it does.
00:54:17.280 -->
00:54:20.320If I don't do it, does the world stop turning?
00:54:20.320 -->
00:54:27.039And nine times out of ten, ninety-nine times out of a hundred, it's like if I defer this till Monday, the world will keep turning.
00:54:27.039 -->
00:54:30.960If I don't deal with this problem this week or this month, the world will keep turning.
00:54:30.960 -->
00:54:39.840So the don't sweat the small stuff is actually the personal toll that as as founders and business owners, we know all the bodies are hidden.
00:54:39.840 -->
00:54:42.079And in fact, no one's gonna drive us.
00:54:42.079 -->
00:54:48.320There is no board, there is no shareholder who will drive this business more than we will ourselves, right?
00:54:48.320 -->
00:54:50.559So we are our own worst judges.
00:54:50.559 -->
00:55:09.280So, you know, the the biggest mistake based on what you're prompting me on, which is a really good one, is actually sort of learning to be kinder or not being so unkind to yourself as a founder and being so harsh on yourself because you know where all the flaws are, where all the bodies are hidden, where all the problems are.
00:55:09.280 -->
00:55:16.800And then so you sweat that stuff, you don't sleep, you let yourself go physically, you let yourself go mentally, and that takes a toll.
00:55:16.800 -->
00:55:20.480So you you know, I'm appreciative of Gopi knowing me and raising that.
00:55:20.480 -->
00:55:33.840So the biggest mistake is actually probably not being able to understand where the priorities sit personally, and really being able to understand that this business does not survive if I'm not intact.
00:55:33.840 -->
00:55:41.760Right, and as founders, and I mentioned before, the Elon Musk quote of being a founder is like chewing glass and staring into the abyss.
00:55:41.760 -->
00:55:56.800That's off the back of a Jensen Huang, who's the founder of NVIDIA, where he was asked by the guys from the Acquired Podcast given NVIDIA is now a four trillion dollar company and the biggest company in the world, and they said to Jensen, knowing what you know today, would you do this again?
00:55:56.800 -->
00:55:58.880And guess what his answer was?
00:55:58.880 -->
00:55:59.840No.
00:55:59.840 -->
00:56:07.039Because as a founder, right, pure ignorance is actually a massive weapon, right?
00:56:07.039 -->
00:56:09.599Not knowing how things will play out is a massive weapon.
00:56:09.599 -->
00:56:14.960But then as a result of that, sort of knowing that that's actually a weapon and something that you can sometimes embrace is quite useful.
00:56:14.960 -->
00:56:28.400So it's a long-winded way of coming back to going, the biggest mistake that I can think of that I make on a regular basis, and again, appreciate Gopi prompting me on this, is overthinking things that don't matter.
00:56:28.400 -->
00:56:30.719And there's so many examples of that.
00:56:30.719 -->
00:56:32.400I can see you guys are all nodding, right?
00:56:32.400 -->
00:56:37.119There's so many examples of that where you kind of look back on it and you go, Yeah, man, that didn't matter.
00:56:37.119 -->
00:56:46.480I wasted so much time, money, effort, energy, collateral of some some sort on something that was inconsequential, but at the time it just burnt it all up.
00:56:46.719 -->
00:56:52.639A wise man once told me that when you're looking at a problem, if you think to yourself, is this gonna bother me in five years' time?
00:56:52.639 -->
00:56:54.719And if the answer is no, then not to sweat it.
00:56:54.960 -->
00:56:59.039Well, you know, Govy, you and I talk all the time, and it's like, is this the hill I'm gonna die on as well?
00:56:59.039 -->
00:56:59.360Right?
00:56:59.440 -->
00:57:03.360Like that's the other that that's more around relationships, but that's different as well, right?
00:57:03.360 -->
00:57:07.840I think we're gonna run out of time for this session, but there's a lot still to be covered.
00:57:07.840 -->
00:57:11.440You're trying to redefine how health is delivered, how information is captured.
00:57:11.440 -->
00:57:12.719There's a lot more to talk about.
00:57:12.719 -->
00:57:13.920I think we need to come back.
00:57:13.920 -->
00:57:15.760But I want to finish on one thing.
00:57:15.760 -->
00:57:20.320There's always been this rule, like you never work with your friends and your family, right?
00:57:20.320 -->
00:57:28.639But when I look at both of you guys and from the stories that we've shared today, it's like it seems like you're surrounding yourself with as many friends as you can.
00:57:28.639 -->
00:57:30.320Well, my sister works your business, right?
00:57:30.320 -->
00:57:31.440She was an LS higher.
00:57:31.599 -->
00:57:36.639So you're I I think you've got to prerequise that with what you guys are saying before on the no-ego piece.
00:57:36.639 -->
00:57:39.440And I think sometimes with family members that can be a problem.
00:57:39.440 -->
00:57:45.440But otherwise, when you guys are set on your values, I think it's a it's but you can't think of anything better.
00:57:45.760 -->
00:57:49.199Yeah, but I want to but I want to know, like you've you've created success.
00:57:49.199 -->
00:57:59.599Uh, you know, Andrew had his whole family working in the business, you had your wife working in at Go One, and you know, you've you've hired your sister as the first employee at one MRI.
00:57:59.599 -->
00:58:01.519What's the secret of success?
00:58:01.519 -->
00:58:10.000Because you you seem to be either that whole saying is wrong or no, I think look, honestly, like and maybe what you said is is you know Honestly, it just depends, right?
00:58:10.079 -->
00:58:16.559Like uh sometimes saying at a totality makes sense and it's true, other times at the minutiae, it's not true.
00:58:16.559 -->
00:58:22.480And so, yes, there are a lot of friends I've got that I wouldn't work with, but there's a bunch of friends that I love working with.
00:58:22.480 -->
00:58:30.320What one of the things, you know, just so we we have an office in the Fortitude Valley, and we have a couple of our friends who also share the office with us.
00:58:30.320 -->
00:58:32.320And just because we love them having their own.
00:58:32.320 -->
00:58:40.320And so I was showing Andrew and Vu this other area in the office, which was massive, and I was showing them about the idea, and then Vu was already chipping in by this other idea.
00:58:40.320 -->
00:58:52.159And so we want to surround ourselves with the people that we like spending with because I think it goes back to this notion Andrew always points to is this concept called tripling down.
00:58:52.159 -->
00:58:59.199It's kind of like if you can do two and three things at the same time that are like hitting three different verticals in your life, what a great time, right?
00:58:59.199 -->
00:59:00.320Like that's efficiency.
00:59:00.320 -->
00:59:08.000So for me, you know, I work 80 hours a week, but I get to hang out with my friends, I get to hang out with my sister, and I get to do cool work.
00:59:08.000 -->
00:59:13.440And that's like now I don't need to find social time on the weekend to like you're not really working eight hours a week.
00:59:13.440 -->
00:59:14.079No, he is.
00:59:14.079 -->
00:59:14.639No, he is.
00:59:14.639 -->
00:59:15.840I can say he's the CEO, he is.
00:59:15.840 -->
00:59:19.039No, I'm hanging out with my friends 80 hours a week.
00:59:19.039 -->
00:59:20.079What would you do otherwise?
00:59:20.079 -->
00:59:20.719Yeah, exactly.
00:59:20.719 -->
00:59:21.360No, exactly.
00:59:21.360 -->
00:59:22.880It's redefining work.
00:59:22.880 -->
00:59:26.559Yeah, I think it just comes back to what is important to you, and you'll find ways to do that.
00:59:26.559 -->
00:59:30.480And I it's social for me is a huge element, and so for you as well.
00:59:30.480 -->
00:59:34.480And so, as much of that if I can incorporate it to work, my life only gets easier.
00:59:34.639 -->
00:59:34.800Yeah.
00:59:34.800 -->
00:59:37.519And I'll give you a bit of a logistical piece, right?
00:59:37.519 -->
00:59:44.719Building where we're building in the high growth, in the in the high growth sort of innovation space, speed is incredibly important.
00:59:44.719 -->
00:59:50.079The speed to grow a team is incredibly important, and one of the most important things too, building a team is trust.
00:59:50.079 -->
00:59:58.880So if you can rapidly acquire trust in a team, you'll be able to scale a team and scale a business faster, at least in the early stages.
00:59:58.880 -->
01:00:01.519It doesn't necessarily work in the later stages, but in the early stages.
01:00:01.519 -->
01:00:15.119And so at the end of the day, what it really comes back down to is hiring people you know and hiring people you have strong relationships with and therefore trust removes one of the biggest unknowns in hiring people and scaling your business, at least in the early stages.
01:00:15.119 -->
01:00:18.000Does that work for a team of 50, 100, 1,000?
01:00:18.000 -->
01:00:18.559No.
01:00:18.559 -->
01:00:24.639But in a team of three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, that curve, like that, that, that's the inner circle.
01:00:24.880 -->
01:00:26.400The inner circle could just remove the variables.
01:00:26.400 -->
01:00:26.800That's right.
01:00:26.800 -->
01:00:28.480And the inner circle can come up both ways, right?
01:00:28.480 -->
01:00:33.360So we have a bunch of colleagues now who are some of our close friends.
01:00:33.360 -->
01:00:36.400And they came into one MRI, and that's kind of how we met them.
01:00:36.400 -->
01:00:38.239But I think it goes both ways.
01:00:38.239 -->
01:00:45.679I think it's like, for me, it's like I'm building the corporate Australia that I always crave for.
01:00:45.679 -->
01:00:56.320And the corporate Australia that I always crave for is a company of people with no egos who's willing to help each other out, but who also in 10 years' time, just like you guys are playing poker, are still catching up.
01:00:56.320 -->
01:01:00.079Like you guys are friends, you probably go work with each other again.
01:01:00.079 -->
01:01:02.800I think it it's just what you crave and aspire for.
01:01:03.119 -->
01:01:05.360I'll come to you in 10 years and ask how your corporate is.
01:01:05.360 -->
01:01:06.559Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:01:06.559 -->
01:01:09.920Once you get to a thousand scarf and viva experience.
01:01:10.480 -->
01:01:11.440We are out of time.
01:01:11.440 -->
01:01:14.239Let's let's wrap it up and uh and come back again.
01:01:14.559 -->
01:01:15.280Let's do that.
01:01:15.280 -->
01:01:17.199I think um there's a lot more to talk about.
01:01:17.199 -->
01:01:19.519And um, mate, thanks for coming in.
01:01:19.519 -->
01:01:21.760And you guys are good to come back and have another chat with us.
01:01:21.760 -->
01:01:22.880Yeah, sounds good.
01:01:23.119 -->
01:01:23.599Awesome.
01:01:23.599 -->
01:01:24.320Thank you both.
01:01:24.320 -->
01:01:25.360Thanks for having us, guys.
01:01:25.599 -->
01:01:25.920Cheers.
01:01:26.079 -->
01:01:29.360Hope you enjoyed this exciting episode of the Mastering Podcast.
01:01:29.360 -->
01:01:35.599If you got value from today's conversation, hit that subscribe button now and share this episode with a friend.
01:01:35.599 -->
01:01:37.199Until next time.
