00:00:00
Speaker 1: It's more of Mark. Mark Simone on 710WOR. Hey, with us right now, Mark Malkoff, a great author, best-selling author now. He wrote the best book ever on Johnny Carson. It's a new book called Love Johnny Carson. It is the definitive book on Johnny Carson. If you know everything about him and you read this book, you'll learn 10,000 new things. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book. Also, he does the Carson podcast. There's like 700 episodes. They're amazing. And now he's got a sub stack. You should sign up for this and read it every day. There's all kinds of fascinating Carson stories, new stuff on there. It's called Here's Johnny Carson on sub stack. Here's Johnny Carson on sub stack. And here's the guy behind it all, Mark Malkoff. How you doing?
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Mark, I'm doing great. Nice to talk to you, sir.
00:00:55
Speaker 1: Hey, I love this podcast and this podcast. Substack is great. Where do you come up with all this stuff?
00:01:02
Speaker 3: You know, talking to over 500 people or close to 500 people about Johnny Carson, you know, it's just everybody wanted to share stories that had never been told about Carson. And then on Substack, twice a week, we're putting out people's stories. I mean, people really miss this man. Conan O'Brien did an interview last week saying Johnny Carson was the most famous man in America for 30 years. And the impact that this guy had on the public and everything from comedy to fashion to business, I mean, is just measurable. And we're presenting new things about Carson from the people that knew him. Yeah.
00:01:40
Speaker 1: People might, especially younger people today, Tonight Show's nice with Jimmy Fallon, but it doesn't mean much in the world. And Kimmel, small audience. Colbert, he had his little niche audience. They may not realize there was a time where everybody watched the Tonight Show. The country watched it.
00:01:55
Speaker 2: It really did.
00:01:56
Speaker 3: I mean, the sitcoms, I mean, you have to look at Roseanne is this housewife, Roseanne Barr, and suddenly she's on the number one show in America. I mean, the Carsey Warner people were watching Johnny Carson's Tonight Show, and that is how she got the gig. Freddie Prinze is this 19, 20-year-old kid that goes on Johnny Carson's show and within six months has the number one show in America, Chico and the Man.
00:02:19
Speaker 2: The power of Johnny Carson.
00:02:21
Speaker 3: The people that would go on Carson as unknowns, Ross Perot, the billionaire, no one knew who this guy was. Carson put him on in the late 60s, and suddenly he's thrust into the national spotlight. And Ross Perot, believe it or not, showed up to 30 Rock here in New York without any bodyguard, no security, and just showed up himself.
00:02:39
Speaker 1: Now, a big part of The Tonight Show was the new comedians, and Carson discovered hundreds of the biggest stars in the world. But when Jay Leno took over, he dropped that whole feature. Why?
00:02:52
Speaker 3: Jay Leno, unfortunately, his producer told him the ratings were going down with comedians. Music, the ratings go down, but comedians, their research, the NBC research said that it went down even more. Now, Johnny Carson refused to do that to comedians. He knew that his responsibility that he had with his show to comedians and was loyal to them. And for whatever reason, I don't know if that was accurate or not, but Jay was a company man with NBC and said every rating matters and the comedians. And fortunately we're, we're put pushed to the side for a long, long time.
00:03:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, Hey, everybody sign up for the sub stack. It's called here's Johnny Carson. Great sub stack. Get the book. Love Johnny Carson. You'll love this book. Uh, we were talking about this all week cause it's the 72nd anniversary of the tonight show. It was created 72 years ago by Steve Allen, who said when he started, he had no idea what would happen with it. Uh, But it was amazing, right, what he began.
00:03:55
Speaker 3: It really was. It was one of those things when he started the show, he did it, you know, for four or five years.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: And the notion that the show was even going to continue was in doubt. But, you know, Jack Parr doesn't end for whatever, four or five years. And that's what people thought. You do the show for four or five years.
00:04:10
Speaker 3: And the fact that this guy, Johnny Carson, for 30 years dominated, number one, and turned this into a statistic, you know, Your phone is cracking up.
00:04:23
Speaker 2: Oh, sorry about that. Can you hear me now?
00:04:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, much better. Sorry about that.
00:04:26
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah, the fact that the show has been able to, yeah, for that many years succeed because of Johnny Carson for those 30 years that he was delivered at number one, the fact that the show is still going and in Johnny's original studio on the sixth floor of NBC and 16.
00:04:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what was different about Steve Allen, what got everybody's attention before that, even the late night, whatever it was, was a variety show. They had sketches. They had a script. He would just come out and ad lib. Nobody had ever done that before.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:04:58
Speaker 3: An hour and 45 minutes live from the glorious Hudson Theater. And they were doing the show live from 1115 till 1 a.m. And, yes, Steve Allen was a master going out on the street just with a camera and just interviewing people.
00:05:12
Speaker 2: I mean, the guy.
00:05:13
Speaker 3: I mean, just doing such innovative stuff. David Letterman, I mean, he gave Steve Allen all the attribution. He was basically copying a lot of Steve Allen's gags. I mean, the man was an absolute legend and should get the credit for creating the Tonight Show, the person behind the desk.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: I mean, what a master Steve Allen was.
00:05:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:05:31
Speaker 1: Now, Steve Allen had a desk, and I think if it were guests, they'd bring out a chair behind the desk. But it was Jack Parr came along. He was the next Tonight Show host. He's the guy that came up with the desk, a chair, and a couch. He invented that and got rid of all the variety stuff, the music kind of stuff. And it was mostly a talk show. And Parr was a– have you been watching a lot of Jack Parr? He's on YouTube. Fascinating guy.
00:05:59
Speaker 2: It really is. I mean, he is a broadcaster.
00:06:02
Speaker 3: I mean, he was unbelievable in the– The controversy, I mean, that he was, these views and you would weep on air.
00:06:09
Speaker 2: And, you know, he's feuding with Ed Sullivan.
00:06:12
Speaker 3: You know, people like Jimmy Hoffa suing him. I mean, it was always in the news for going after people. It's such a fascinating case study, Jack Parr. You know, Dick Cavett told me Jack Parr's biggest regret. Parr told him was leaving the Tonight Show was the biggest regret of my life.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was so intense, and he got so emotional. It was. He couldn't keep it up much longer. And then Carson comes in, and at first everybody thought it was a bad choice because he was so casual and low-key. They didn't think he was big enough to fill up that show, right? And wasn't it true the first year or two they weren't sure he was going to make it?
00:06:50
Speaker 3: This guy was a game show host on ABC. People said, this guy's wrong, and we want controversy. And Johnny said, no, this is an entertainment show, and it really did take the public a little time for them to catch up in Carson's brilliance. And he takes over the Tonight Show in 62. And by 1964, he's breaking Judy Garland's record in Las Vegas. And he has cemented himself as a huge global superstar. I mean, people around everywhere wanted to go to the tonight show to wait for tickets. They would save up their money to go to Vegas on vacation to see Johnny. But still with NBC, he couldn't get a restroom, his own bathroom in his office at that point. And it took every year, he would get a little bit more momentum from NBC. And it took him almost nine years to finally get a window office. And this is Johnny Carson that finally get a bathroom and shower. Everything took a little bit of time, but I think the 1964 in Vegas at the Sahara, when he was getting paid, I mean, people couldn't believe the money that he was getting paid. That is what really, I think, got him over the top as an established star with NBC.
00:07:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:07:55
Speaker 1: Now, a big thing was every year they would do the anniversary show with all the highlights, an hour and a half of incredible highlights. And we all know those highlights. Could you imagine a Jay Leno highlight show? Could there be such a thing?
00:08:08
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
00:08:09
Speaker 3: I mean, the only thing when I talk to people about Leno show that watched it, I asked for memorable moments.
00:08:14
Speaker 2: They've mentioned Hugh Grant and.
00:08:16
Speaker 3: There weren't a lot. I mean, he would do the jaywalking and those popular segments, but not really specific moments.
00:08:23
Speaker 2: Whereas you talk about Carson. I mean, it's just one thing after another.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: And I got to sit down with Ed Ames of all people in his nineties and in Los Angeles and talk about, you know, the famous Tomahawk throw.
00:08:33
Speaker 2: And it was one thing after another.
00:08:35
Speaker 3: And people all over the country send me their memories of watching Johnny a lot of times with their parents. And growing up, you've mentioned this, Johnny was kind of a role model.
00:08:45
Speaker 2: You watched him, this is how.
00:08:46
Speaker 3: Adults behave and dress and act. And yeah, I mean, the celebration of this man is the podcast, The Substack. And the Paley Center right now has his desk. You can go on 52nd Street to the Paley Center and sit at Johnny's actual desk.
00:09:01
Speaker 2: They have it out as an exhibit. I'm doing an event at the Paley Center.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: On Wednesday, November 6th at four o'clock, by the way, if anyone wants to come home to talk about Carson and the book with, with Ron Simon, the curator over there. But yeah, I love that they, they, they preserved, uh, Carson's desk. It's there for the public.
00:09:17
Speaker 1: People come see that presentation at the Paley center. Just go to the Paley center website. Yeah.
00:09:21
Speaker 3: All you have to do is go there and get a ticket. Or if you remember, and you can go at four o'clock and I'll be, yeah. Anyone that wants me to sign books or say hi afterwards, but yeah, sit down at Johnny's desk.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: They have this, the chair, they have the couch.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: They have Johnny's actual swivel chair that he sat down. And this was in the Burbank years. And it's all on glorious display.
00:09:40
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:09:42
Speaker 1: And everybody, get the book. That's very important. If you haven't read it, you're going to love this book. Get the book. It's called Love Johnny Carson. It's the definitive book on Johnny Carson. Amazing stories. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book. And the sub stack, just go sign up for that. It's called Here's Johnny Carson. a lot of new stuff that wasn't in the book here's johnny carson on sub stack and then are you doing some book signings around aren't you yeah.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be doing something for the autumn garden society on on october 7th at 7 p.m that's going to be at the national opera center And the Autumn Garden Society, you can get tickets and I'm going to be signing books and talking about Carson and yeah, people all around the country. I mean, I was in Johnny's hometown. I got to go to his boyhood home and they had me sign their wall. They had me autograph the wall with a bunch of other people that had been through and just to go back to where Johnny was from in Norfolk and go to places like Chicago where Johnny spent time and did shows and stuff. People have Just really, really miss him. And just the fact, Mark, you knew Johnny Carson. You spent time with him. And you added so much to the book. I mean, you're all over the book, and I'm grateful for you. Yeah, I love hearing your stories. I mean, you worked with Steve Allen. You knew all these people.
00:10:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate to say we're out of time, but everybody go get the book. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book, Love Johnny Carson. It's on Amazon. And make sure you follow the Substack. Here's Johnny Carson on Substack. We'll do it again soon. Mark Malkoff, thanks for being with us. Thanks, Mark.
00:11:11
Speaker 2: Really good talking to you, sir.
00:11:13
Speaker 1: Take care. Take care. Don't forget, I'm here three hours a day now. It's 9 to noon every day, three hours. And, of course, before me, 6 to 9, it's Curtis Sliwa and Larry Menti on 710WOR.
Speaker 1: It's more of Mark. Mark Simone on 710WOR. Hey, with us right now, Mark Malkoff, a great author, best-selling author now. He wrote the best book ever on Johnny Carson. It's a new book called Love Johnny Carson. It is the definitive book on Johnny Carson. If you know everything about him and you read this book, you'll learn 10,000 new things. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book. Also, he does the Carson podcast. There's like 700 episodes. They're amazing. And now he's got a sub stack. You should sign up for this and read it every day. There's all kinds of fascinating Carson stories, new stuff on there. It's called Here's Johnny Carson on sub stack. Here's Johnny Carson on sub stack. And here's the guy behind it all, Mark Malkoff. How you doing?
00:00:52
Speaker 2: Mark, I'm doing great. Nice to talk to you, sir.
00:00:55
Speaker 1: Hey, I love this podcast and this podcast. Substack is great. Where do you come up with all this stuff?
00:01:02
Speaker 3: You know, talking to over 500 people or close to 500 people about Johnny Carson, you know, it's just everybody wanted to share stories that had never been told about Carson. And then on Substack, twice a week, we're putting out people's stories. I mean, people really miss this man. Conan O'Brien did an interview last week saying Johnny Carson was the most famous man in America for 30 years. And the impact that this guy had on the public and everything from comedy to fashion to business, I mean, is just measurable. And we're presenting new things about Carson from the people that knew him. Yeah.
00:01:40
Speaker 1: People might, especially younger people today, Tonight Show's nice with Jimmy Fallon, but it doesn't mean much in the world. And Kimmel, small audience. Colbert, he had his little niche audience. They may not realize there was a time where everybody watched the Tonight Show. The country watched it.
00:01:55
Speaker 2: It really did.
00:01:56
Speaker 3: I mean, the sitcoms, I mean, you have to look at Roseanne is this housewife, Roseanne Barr, and suddenly she's on the number one show in America. I mean, the Carsey Warner people were watching Johnny Carson's Tonight Show, and that is how she got the gig. Freddie Prinze is this 19, 20-year-old kid that goes on Johnny Carson's show and within six months has the number one show in America, Chico and the Man.
00:02:19
Speaker 2: The power of Johnny Carson.
00:02:21
Speaker 3: The people that would go on Carson as unknowns, Ross Perot, the billionaire, no one knew who this guy was. Carson put him on in the late 60s, and suddenly he's thrust into the national spotlight. And Ross Perot, believe it or not, showed up to 30 Rock here in New York without any bodyguard, no security, and just showed up himself.
00:02:39
Speaker 1: Now, a big part of The Tonight Show was the new comedians, and Carson discovered hundreds of the biggest stars in the world. But when Jay Leno took over, he dropped that whole feature. Why?
00:02:52
Speaker 3: Jay Leno, unfortunately, his producer told him the ratings were going down with comedians. Music, the ratings go down, but comedians, their research, the NBC research said that it went down even more. Now, Johnny Carson refused to do that to comedians. He knew that his responsibility that he had with his show to comedians and was loyal to them. And for whatever reason, I don't know if that was accurate or not, but Jay was a company man with NBC and said every rating matters and the comedians. And fortunately we're, we're put pushed to the side for a long, long time.
00:03:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, uh, Hey, everybody sign up for the sub stack. It's called here's Johnny Carson. Great sub stack. Get the book. Love Johnny Carson. You'll love this book. Uh, we were talking about this all week cause it's the 72nd anniversary of the tonight show. It was created 72 years ago by Steve Allen, who said when he started, he had no idea what would happen with it. Uh, But it was amazing, right, what he began.
00:03:55
Speaker 3: It really was. It was one of those things when he started the show, he did it, you know, for four or five years.
00:04:01
Speaker 2: And the notion that the show was even going to continue was in doubt. But, you know, Jack Parr doesn't end for whatever, four or five years. And that's what people thought. You do the show for four or five years.
00:04:10
Speaker 3: And the fact that this guy, Johnny Carson, for 30 years dominated, number one, and turned this into a statistic, you know, Your phone is cracking up.
00:04:23
Speaker 2: Oh, sorry about that. Can you hear me now?
00:04:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, much better. Sorry about that.
00:04:26
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. Yeah, the fact that the show has been able to, yeah, for that many years succeed because of Johnny Carson for those 30 years that he was delivered at number one, the fact that the show is still going and in Johnny's original studio on the sixth floor of NBC and 16.
00:04:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. So what was different about Steve Allen, what got everybody's attention before that, even the late night, whatever it was, was a variety show. They had sketches. They had a script. He would just come out and ad lib. Nobody had ever done that before.
00:04:57
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:04:58
Speaker 3: An hour and 45 minutes live from the glorious Hudson Theater. And they were doing the show live from 1115 till 1 a.m. And, yes, Steve Allen was a master going out on the street just with a camera and just interviewing people.
00:05:12
Speaker 2: I mean, the guy.
00:05:13
Speaker 3: I mean, just doing such innovative stuff. David Letterman, I mean, he gave Steve Allen all the attribution. He was basically copying a lot of Steve Allen's gags. I mean, the man was an absolute legend and should get the credit for creating the Tonight Show, the person behind the desk.
00:05:29
Speaker 2: I mean, what a master Steve Allen was.
00:05:31
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:05:31
Speaker 1: Now, Steve Allen had a desk, and I think if it were guests, they'd bring out a chair behind the desk. But it was Jack Parr came along. He was the next Tonight Show host. He's the guy that came up with the desk, a chair, and a couch. He invented that and got rid of all the variety stuff, the music kind of stuff. And it was mostly a talk show. And Parr was a– have you been watching a lot of Jack Parr? He's on YouTube. Fascinating guy.
00:05:59
Speaker 2: It really is. I mean, he is a broadcaster.
00:06:02
Speaker 3: I mean, he was unbelievable in the– The controversy, I mean, that he was, these views and you would weep on air.
00:06:09
Speaker 2: And, you know, he's feuding with Ed Sullivan.
00:06:12
Speaker 3: You know, people like Jimmy Hoffa suing him. I mean, it was always in the news for going after people. It's such a fascinating case study, Jack Parr. You know, Dick Cavett told me Jack Parr's biggest regret. Parr told him was leaving the Tonight Show was the biggest regret of my life.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was so intense, and he got so emotional. It was. He couldn't keep it up much longer. And then Carson comes in, and at first everybody thought it was a bad choice because he was so casual and low-key. They didn't think he was big enough to fill up that show, right? And wasn't it true the first year or two they weren't sure he was going to make it?
00:06:50
Speaker 3: This guy was a game show host on ABC. People said, this guy's wrong, and we want controversy. And Johnny said, no, this is an entertainment show, and it really did take the public a little time for them to catch up in Carson's brilliance. And he takes over the Tonight Show in 62. And by 1964, he's breaking Judy Garland's record in Las Vegas. And he has cemented himself as a huge global superstar. I mean, people around everywhere wanted to go to the tonight show to wait for tickets. They would save up their money to go to Vegas on vacation to see Johnny. But still with NBC, he couldn't get a restroom, his own bathroom in his office at that point. And it took every year, he would get a little bit more momentum from NBC. And it took him almost nine years to finally get a window office. And this is Johnny Carson that finally get a bathroom and shower. Everything took a little bit of time, but I think the 1964 in Vegas at the Sahara, when he was getting paid, I mean, people couldn't believe the money that he was getting paid. That is what really, I think, got him over the top as an established star with NBC.
00:07:54
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:07:55
Speaker 1: Now, a big thing was every year they would do the anniversary show with all the highlights, an hour and a half of incredible highlights. And we all know those highlights. Could you imagine a Jay Leno highlight show? Could there be such a thing?
00:08:08
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
00:08:09
Speaker 3: I mean, the only thing when I talk to people about Leno show that watched it, I asked for memorable moments.
00:08:14
Speaker 2: They've mentioned Hugh Grant and.
00:08:16
Speaker 3: There weren't a lot. I mean, he would do the jaywalking and those popular segments, but not really specific moments.
00:08:23
Speaker 2: Whereas you talk about Carson. I mean, it's just one thing after another.
00:08:26
Speaker 3: And I got to sit down with Ed Ames of all people in his nineties and in Los Angeles and talk about, you know, the famous Tomahawk throw.
00:08:33
Speaker 2: And it was one thing after another.
00:08:35
Speaker 3: And people all over the country send me their memories of watching Johnny a lot of times with their parents. And growing up, you've mentioned this, Johnny was kind of a role model.
00:08:45
Speaker 2: You watched him, this is how.
00:08:46
Speaker 3: Adults behave and dress and act. And yeah, I mean, the celebration of this man is the podcast, The Substack. And the Paley Center right now has his desk. You can go on 52nd Street to the Paley Center and sit at Johnny's actual desk.
00:09:01
Speaker 2: They have it out as an exhibit. I'm doing an event at the Paley Center.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: On Wednesday, November 6th at four o'clock, by the way, if anyone wants to come home to talk about Carson and the book with, with Ron Simon, the curator over there. But yeah, I love that they, they, they preserved, uh, Carson's desk. It's there for the public.
00:09:17
Speaker 1: People come see that presentation at the Paley center. Just go to the Paley center website. Yeah.
00:09:21
Speaker 3: All you have to do is go there and get a ticket. Or if you remember, and you can go at four o'clock and I'll be, yeah. Anyone that wants me to sign books or say hi afterwards, but yeah, sit down at Johnny's desk.
00:09:31
Speaker 2: They have this, the chair, they have the couch.
00:09:34
Speaker 3: They have Johnny's actual swivel chair that he sat down. And this was in the Burbank years. And it's all on glorious display.
00:09:40
Speaker 2: Wow.
00:09:42
Speaker 1: And everybody, get the book. That's very important. If you haven't read it, you're going to love this book. Get the book. It's called Love Johnny Carson. It's the definitive book on Johnny Carson. Amazing stories. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book. And the sub stack, just go sign up for that. It's called Here's Johnny Carson. a lot of new stuff that wasn't in the book here's johnny carson on sub stack and then are you doing some book signings around aren't you yeah.
00:10:07
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be doing something for the autumn garden society on on october 7th at 7 p.m that's going to be at the national opera center And the Autumn Garden Society, you can get tickets and I'm going to be signing books and talking about Carson and yeah, people all around the country. I mean, I was in Johnny's hometown. I got to go to his boyhood home and they had me sign their wall. They had me autograph the wall with a bunch of other people that had been through and just to go back to where Johnny was from in Norfolk and go to places like Chicago where Johnny spent time and did shows and stuff. People have Just really, really miss him. And just the fact, Mark, you knew Johnny Carson. You spent time with him. And you added so much to the book. I mean, you're all over the book, and I'm grateful for you. Yeah, I love hearing your stories. I mean, you worked with Steve Allen. You knew all these people.
00:10:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hate to say we're out of time, but everybody go get the book. It's called Love Johnny Carson. Get the book, Love Johnny Carson. It's on Amazon. And make sure you follow the Substack. Here's Johnny Carson on Substack. We'll do it again soon. Mark Malkoff, thanks for being with us. Thanks, Mark.
00:11:11
Speaker 2: Really good talking to you, sir.
00:11:13
Speaker 1: Take care. Take care. Don't forget, I'm here three hours a day now. It's 9 to noon every day, three hours. And, of course, before me, 6 to 9, it's Curtis Sliwa and Larry Menti on 710WOR.
