Connecting People, Communities, and Nature w/ June Boyle

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This is HudsonRiverRadio.com.
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Hello out there in podcast land and in any land
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you might be in that's safe, secure and Joyous to
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be in. I hope you can tell me where that is.
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I'm Maxi Margot Rubin, along with my co-host Malcolm Berman,
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and this is The Many Shades of Green, a program
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that adds a dash of green into your life as
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we engage in conversations that move to inform, educate, activate,
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and raise your eco and social consciousness. Through culture, politics, music, art, science, conservation, gardening,
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and community, We hope to inspire you to pick a
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shade of green and become a steward of this beautiful
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blue-green planet we call Earth. So hi, Malcolm, out there.
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It's hot, hot out there in LA.
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It's going to be hot this weekend.
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I heard you're going to get pretty hot temperatures.
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It's supposed to be in the triple digits.
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Oh, God. This is not normal, but nothing is.
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Hi, June.
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You're closer by. How are you doing? Good, good. And
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I have Neil back there in Studio N.
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Where it's always hot.
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For Neil. Well, no, he's the cool guy. So, no,
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I think cool. And the Studio N is cool. So
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we're going to start with the song. I know I've
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used this before. I'm pretty sure. I just don't know
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which show. But it's called Green Garden. It's by Laura Emolva.
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Take me outside, sit in the green garden. Nobody out there,
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but it's okay now. Bathing in sunlight, don't mind if
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rain falls. Take me outside, sit in the green garden.
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Oh, wow, oh, wow, oh. Oh, wow, oh, wow, oh.
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And I'll fly on the wings of a butterfly. High
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as a tree top, down again. Putting my bag down,
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taking my shoes off. Walking the carpet, a green velvet.
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Oh, I, oh, I, oh, I. Take me outside, sit
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in the green garden. Nobody out there, but it's okay now.
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Bathing in sunlight, don't mind if rain falls. Take me outside,
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sit in the green garden. Wherever you go, wherever you
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take me, I go, I go. Oh, wow.
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Love that song. Love that artist, Laura Imova. It's called
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Green Garden. Released as the second single from her debut album,
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Sing to the Moon, in 2013, the song describes a
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peaceful scene in a green garden where one can take
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in the beauty of nature as well as freedom and joy.
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In a garden, you can have a sensory experience and
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connect to the earth. And some of the lyrics is,
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you know, she likes to fly in the wings of
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the butterfly and walk barefoot on the green carpet, which
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is grass, which feels like velvet. And that's pretty cool.
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So green gardens only get green when property owners decide
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to take steps to be more proactive in planting native
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trees and plants, avoiding toxic fertilizers and pesticides, and being
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responsible stewards of the land. by showing concern for wildlife
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and our precious pollinators. In this current moment of constant chaos,
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it's hard to think about our gardens as just getting
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through a day is a monumental task. How can we
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find a sense of community and a common thread that
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connects us in these difficult times? We all need some joy,
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and so gardening, forest bathing, getting back to nature is
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good for one's psyche, Conservation reminds us that we have
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a responsibility to places we call home. We don't have
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to be scientists. We don't have to work for an
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environmental organization. We don't have to be experts. We can
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begin simply by paying attention. That's what we need to do.
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So on today's podcast, June Boyle joins us to explore
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the connections among nature, our sense of place, community belonging,
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and civic participation. drawing on her experiences with local conservation efforts,
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local government, community events, environmental organizations. She'll talk about how
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shared work around conservation and the environment can create opportunities
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for people to meet, learn from one another, and become
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invested in their communities. June is a communications specialist and
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an organizational effectiveness practitioner and the founder of Circo Consulting.
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Is that correct? She helps mission-driven organizations clarify strategy, strengthen communications,
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and move important initiatives from vision to action, working primarily
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with organizations in conservation, ecological restoration, and sustainability. June, yeah,
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this bio is great. You have more than 25 years
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of experience in organizational effectiveness and communications. She brings a
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particular interest in how people, ideas, and systems connect to
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create change. She's also a member of the Newcastle Conservation
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Board in Westchester County, New York, and writes field notes,
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which she shares observations about nature, community, change, and the
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people and organizations working to make a difference. And there
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are people working to make a difference. They're just under
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the radar. We only see the total garbage that the
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press throws out. But we know and you know and
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we all know on this screen that I'm looking at
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that there are really good people and they're trying to
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do things to help. So my first question is always
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the first question. What is your shade of green today?
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Thanks, Maxine, for having me, Malcolm, and I really appreciate
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you having me on. My shade of green is, believe
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it or not, pine green.
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Pine green, okay.
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I am actually thinking about winter right now. I'm looking
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forward to winter. It's been a tough year, I was
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telling you a little bit earlier. And, you know, I'm
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really looking forward to a season of rest and restoration
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and sort of preparing for what comes next. And, you know,
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I think we're also heading into a season where, you know,
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the land is going to start resting soon and nature
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is going to start putting itself to bed. But that
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doesn't mean nothing's happening. A lot can still be going
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on underneath the surface and we want to protect that
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surface and restore ourselves and see what grows from it
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in the spring. So, um, that can certainly be true
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of individuals and communities. And right now I'm looking forward
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to restoration and, uh, and rebounding from, uh, a rather
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tough year. Yeah.
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Um, I hope that happens. Uh, It's right now we're
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hitting it. We're taping this on October 1st. So it's
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already the 10th month of the year. And fun things,
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you know, October's I usually love October, actually. I love
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it starts to get a little cooler. Today is actually
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very humid out. I walk my dog and she looked
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at me. She goes, it was cool the other day.
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What's going on? But, you know, we had, you know,
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Halloween's almost here and the trees are changing. I see
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the leaves today. I saw it more than than A
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couple of days ago, even.
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You haven't looked out of my window.
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What's out your window?
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The trees haven't changed.
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Yes.
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Well, you're in Los Angeles.
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It hasn't changed for the last 50 years since I've
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been out here.
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That's true.
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I'm waiting.
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You're waiting.
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Meanwhile, our gas powered leaf blower ban here in Newcastle
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just lifted yesterday. So I was just doing a little
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social media post for the conservation board. Good. About that.
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Just reminding people not to uh not to blow the
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leaves and you know even though the band's lifted just
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do to move them elsewhere gently and let let nature
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do its.
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Thing yeah i know we had this banter back and
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forth that um i unfortunately i i don't see that
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you know i don't some people are doing it but
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more don't which I mean, I do because I have
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lots of woods and I can put things in the woods.
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There were so many acorns. I think the squirrels, I
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don't know. They're going to forget where they put stuff, right, Malcolm?
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Yeah.
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Sometimes the squirrels and the chipmunks, you know, do that.
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But it's, yeah. So we were kind of figuring, like,
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how we're going to, you know, speak about what's going
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on in terms of the community. Mm-hmm. Well, how to
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have a conversation to look at different ways people can
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find their way into community life and, and using, you know,
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their properties and, and how to do that. I mean,
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what's your take on how we can start these conversations?
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Well, you know, I think as I've been looking at
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the work I've been doing and also some of the
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work I did with and have been doing with, um,
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on the Conservation Board, but also with, because we see
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the struggle all the time as we're trying to encourage
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people to do the right thing for the ecosystem that
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we live in, this beautiful area that we all are
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lucky enough to live in, but also work I did
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with Planet Wild and now Wilder with the Less Long,
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More Life campaign. You know, I'm seeing what works with
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that program. I'm seeing the challenges. And I, as I've
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made connections and gotten to know many more people in
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the community and, you know, hearing the frustrations and I,
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as a consultant with the background in organizational change, I'm
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always looking at systems, you know, so it's part of
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a larger system. You know, it's not the homeowner individually.
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It's not the government, local government individually. It's not the
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nonprofit individually. We're all part of this, our own ecosystem really.
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And they, all these, there are all these different stressors
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on the system. So a homeowner may want to actually
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leave the leaves or they know the information about why
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they want to leave the leaves that we're telling them
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and here's why, but they have questions or they have
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a scheduling challenge or they inherited their landscaper and that's
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what that landscaper does. And the landscaper doesn't have any
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incentive to change the business model and it's expensive to
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for that landscaper to get battery powered up, you know, machinery.
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And so there are all these different aspects that make
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it challenging for individuals to do what they need to
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do or what we would like them to do to
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be better to nature. So, you know, it's instead of
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saying it's the landscaping company's fault or the individual, your
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neighbor's fault, because they're not doing what you're doing, which
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is really great for, And I think each of us
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as our individual, as individual homeowners have the potential to
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really build something amazing in terms of, you know, because
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the border, your property's border is artificial. It's human made.
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Nature doesn't care. It goes past your yard. It goes
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past your municipality, past your county. So, you know, it's
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all the more we can connect and do these things,
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the greater impact we have. but there are all these barriers.
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Where do you get, where do you source your materials from?
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Where do you get plants that are native, that are
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easy to, easy to plant? And so there are all
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these different things. So I tend to try to go
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to where can we make it easier for people to
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do this?
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Right.
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You know, so that's sort of the premise of what
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I've been, this is what I've been thinking about. I
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don't really necessarily, I have a theory about how this happens,
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which we, I shared with you, but you know, I don't,
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I don't, pretend to have all the answers, certainly. It's just,
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I'd love to talk about it.
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With you more.
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Most people, you know, they're called landowners. They don't own
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the land. They might own the house that's on the land,
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but the land is not theirs.
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You're a steward of the land.
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Yeah, they're going to be here maybe for 10 years
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or however long they live there. And the land, the
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house might go down, they might build another house, but
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that same land is going to be there. And as
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a steward, it's just like the Indians would say, the
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Native Americans, they're only there to tend the land.
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It's not theirs.
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And I don't know if everybody necessarily thinks that way.
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It took me a bit of time when I moved
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into this home and I write about it in field notes.
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It was really around this home that I live in
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is actually from the, it was built in the 1770s.
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And the owner that we bought it from had prepared
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a nice binder for us. So we we saw the,
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and she worked with the local historical society and she
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did some research on who lived here before in terms
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of the people who lived in the home, but also
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the native Americans who also lived on this land in
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the area. So, and I, that prompted me to do
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a little bit more history about the area. And then I,
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I was also gardening cause I loved gardening, even though
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I came from the city. And so I was out
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in the yard and finding objects that looked sort of
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interesting and, turned out to be pieces of history of
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the home and people who lived here before. And so
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I sort of had a steward mindset when we first
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bought this home because it was old.
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1770s is old.
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So I wasn't thinking, oh, you know, we're just going
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to take care of it until the next steward takes
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it on. So it sort of forced me to think
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that way differently. And that carried over to how I
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felt about the land. And I just felt a real
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sense of connection to the place. And to the land
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and to the people who came before and the, and
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the wildlife that I started eventually bringing in because I
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started learning more about native plants and the benefits. And so,
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you know, we've, we've got a nice little wildlife preserve
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going on in our yard right now, which we love,
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but you know, it, it took me some time to
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get there. And so I think, and people have different
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entry points into their community. So, you know, we sort
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of have to look at how, what are the different
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entry points? What are the different doorways that people come
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into a community and how do we meet them where
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they are? How do we actually talk to the young
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family that just moved in from this? They wanted to
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move to the suburbs from the city because they want
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to send their kids to good schools and they land
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in a home and they think they're environmentally conscientious because
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they came from New York City where, you know, the
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system sort of sets it up to make it easy
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for you. But then you get here and suddenly none
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of us get trained to be responsible for our own
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tiny little ecosystem in our yard you know none of
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us learn that unless you go to school for such
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a such a thing if you're an environmental scientist you
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think that way but but if you're you know just
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you land here and suddenly you're you have to make
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all the decisions about how you're going to take care
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of your property and you used to be able to
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call somebody and they would take care of it now
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you you're still calling but you're the one making.
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The decisions yeah i think that they don't know that
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they can tell their landscaper what to do and they
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don't I think there's a fear in asking your landscaper, like,
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please do the leaves, but leave them off in an area.
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You don't have to pick it clean. I mean, they
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literally pick it clean. There's nothing around. I see properties
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with no leaves, like nothing. And all the pollinators and
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insects that live under that, especially during the winter and especially...
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for butterflies and, and, you know, it's, they don't connect. It's,
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there's a, there's, I mean, conservation, it's, it's caring for nature,
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but we have to strengthen the relationship among communities and
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people because we all share this. You know, we, I
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walk my dog. I see every day. I know all
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the houses on my block. I know all the landscapers
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on my block and they see me And if they're
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using their leaf blower that's not good, they see, oh,
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there's the lady with the poodle who's going to, like,
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jaw jack on me right now. And, you know, I
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try to be nice, except, like, one time one guy
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told me to F myself and said, you don't tell
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me what to do.
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Yeah.
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And he started up with me. And I'm like, I'm
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not going to start up with you. You're carrying, you know.
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If you have a lawnmower, you can potentially run me over. Actually,
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it was a leaf blower. They're harmful, but I don't
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think it would cause much damage. Yeah, but I'm just
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saying that the idea that this person just didn't care about. Also,
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the person said, like, everyone else is doing it. So
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if everyone else is still doing it, I'm doing it.
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Well, and that is a problem because we do have
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a ban, and many municipalities have bans.
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They're not being enforced as well.
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As they should. But in fairness to the, not that guy,
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but the landscaping companies, each municipality has a different ruling
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and a different timeframe. And so for them to be
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working with several different municipalities and trying to keep track
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of all of that is a challenge. So I think
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at the county level, from what I understand, they're looking
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at something that's a more holistic way to set these
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sort of regulations in place. And then that way, maybe
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00:20:01.599 --> 00:20:04.799
these organizations can at least, you know, if you have
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to send one crew to one area and then change
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00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:14.109
change equipment for another area, um, it, it is, it
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00:20:14.210 --> 00:20:17.869
is a little difficult to manage. So, you know, I know, uh,
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those of us in conservation aren't big fans of the
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traditional mow and blow, uh, landscaping companies, but they, they are,
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00:20:24.890 --> 00:20:28.230
they are facing a lot of change. The Edwins are
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there and, you know, uh, I don't know if you've seen, um,
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I've seen some posts about the, the Roomba is coming
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for the lawn. You know, there are robots mowing your
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lawn and, they're going to have to change their models
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if that is the case, because sending out a crew
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to mow the lawn may be changing. You can think
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of the past.
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Well, AI is here.
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That is something business owners need to think about. But
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there are different ways to move this. I think of
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all these different levers. You can regulate, right? So you
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can create a ban, but if you can't enforce it, Yeah,
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that's the problem. That's the problem. You can educate people,
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but again, it goes back to that information. Information doesn't
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necessarily create change. And I've seen this in organizations. You
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00:21:16.269 --> 00:21:22.269
could have the most amazing strategic plan, a beautifully laid
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00:21:22.410 --> 00:21:27.480
out change agenda, and a communications campaign to your employees
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00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:29.799
that are going to be marvelous. It's marvelous, right? Everybody
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00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.619
loves it. Everybody signs off on it at the top.
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And then the next day, nobody changes their behavior. They're
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still doing it the old way. And why is that?
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Because it's easier to do it that way. It's easier
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to do the way you've always done it. And so
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you have to, there are different ways to create change.
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And it's really about engaging them in a different way
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and meeting them where they are.
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Right. That's something we have to take into consideration. But
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00:21:56.210 --> 00:21:59.339
they're also thinking of, on the state level, they've had
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some you know, they were bantering back and forth, uh,
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about doing a ban in the state and California, I
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believe in the next year or two, you can no
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longer purchase gas blowing, you know, gas leaf blowers. So they,
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you could, you could buy electric, but gas wouldn't even
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be available. Right, Malcolm?
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I believe so. Okay.
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So, yeah. And oftentimes California is the, um, sort of
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the leader in this, and other states tend to follow suit.
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So there is that. I know that just last week,
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I think, just a few days ago, New York State signed,
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I'm trying to look, New York, I don't want to
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read off the whole, I have the actual bill number,
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but we don't need to talk about that necessarily. But
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there was an electric landscaping equipment rebate program That's good.
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And the point-of-sale rebates for eligible battery-powered lawn care equipment
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purchased or leased by commercial landscaping businesses and institutional commercial applicants.
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So that just got signed by the governor the other day.
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So that means they actually have some economic incentive now
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to stop using this type of equipment.
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I did speak to some very, you know, a couple
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of nice really, you know, they work hard, the landscapers.
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They work hard. And not, you know, you just talk
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to them and you know. So a couple of them,
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one in particular, who grew up on a farm and
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he knew the practices should be better. But he says
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his clients don't want it. Right.
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And that's the other issue.
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Right.
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Some clients want it, but not all.
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Right.
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He said he has one or two. And I could
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say on my block, out of all these houses, there's
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maybe three of us. who are practicing more conversation conservation
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and doing things the way we leave leaves alone, you know,
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less lawn, more life, stuff like that.
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But, uh, it is happening maybe not as fast as
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we want it, but, um, I don't know if I
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have the stats for, um, uh, I'm going to see
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00:24:18.529 --> 00:24:22.130
if I could look it up for, um, the less lawn, um,
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stats about how many people nationwide are now So just
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this started this less, one more life for those who
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are listening for the first time, it is a annual
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challenge run by an organization called wilder places used to
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00:24:41.500 --> 00:24:43.720
be run by an organization called planet wild. They're, they're
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00:24:43.740 --> 00:24:48.140
still linked to each other and they, it is a
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free challenge for anybody who wants to learn how to
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rewild their yard. And so they, Um, you have to
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00:24:53.930 --> 00:24:57.410
want it first of all, but they go ahead and do, um,
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00:24:58.910 --> 00:25:01.500
it's been an amazing campaign and I'll just say, you know,
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00:25:01.700 --> 00:25:06.000
it started three years ago, just locally. And now nationally,
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00:25:06.019 --> 00:25:11.359
you have, uh, almost 30,000 participants in this across the country.
402
00:25:11.839 --> 00:25:17.519
You have, um, rewilding happening in rewilding and progress, 76,000
403
00:25:17.519 --> 00:25:24.180
and a number of species observed returning to yards. 240,000. Wow. So,
404
00:25:24.539 --> 00:25:27.359
so this is pretty amazing stuff. So just on that note,
405
00:25:27.420 --> 00:25:29.009
it's a positive note. Okay.
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00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:31.450
We'll talk, we'll get back into it a bit because
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we're hitting the break point. We hit the break point.
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So we'll be back more with great information from June
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00:25:37.490 --> 00:25:40.619
Boyle about, you know, getting the word out and educating
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homeowners and landscapers about the importance of, you know, doing
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the good thing to keep your property safe. safe for
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00:25:46.880 --> 00:25:50.880
pollinators and wildlife and so much more. So please stay tuned,
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00:25:50.920 --> 00:25:51.839
and we'll be right back.
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HudsonRiverRadio.com This is HudsonRiverRadio.com This is HudsonRiverRadio.com.
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00:26:30.930 --> 00:26:34.250
Hey, we are back with June Boyle to talk more
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00:26:34.309 --> 00:26:38.690
about the need to communicate issues of conservation, native planting,
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00:26:39.029 --> 00:26:43.250
the importance of protecting the pollinators and wildlife. And, you know,
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gardening groups and environmental groups are helpful, but, you know,
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00:26:47.230 --> 00:26:50.089
people need to stand up and learn from them, maybe
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contact them to get information on how to keep their
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lawns a little wilder, as they say. So please listen
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00:26:58.339 --> 00:27:01.940
to Many Shades on all major podcast apps. Follow us
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00:27:02.049 --> 00:27:07.130
on Instagram, Threads, and Facebook. Send us any information requests
424
00:27:07.170 --> 00:27:10.190
that you have. And let's get back into it. We
425
00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:14.430
were talking about before the break the less lawn, more life.
426
00:27:14.990 --> 00:27:17.289
You were doing some statistics about it and how it's
427
00:27:17.349 --> 00:27:20.869
growing and growing, which is great. So let's pick it
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00:27:20.950 --> 00:27:22.029
up from there.
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00:27:22.529 --> 00:27:25.049
So I think that's a positive message that even though
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00:27:25.069 --> 00:27:27.390
it may not be happening on your street it is
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00:27:27.450 --> 00:27:31.009
happening and it is growing the numbers of people and
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00:27:31.069 --> 00:27:35.339
individual properties across the country. And in this area, there's
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00:27:35.380 --> 00:27:38.039
a lot of interest in, in, in doing more of this.
434
00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:40.000
There was an article in the New York times about
435
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:44.079
it in Margaret Rocha's column around the, the, the challenge
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00:27:44.140 --> 00:27:47.440
that the less than more life challenge. And so we're
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00:27:47.460 --> 00:27:50.829
seeing all of this happening. You know, my neighbor next
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00:27:50.849 --> 00:27:54.390
door is now hooked and my next door neighbor is
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00:27:54.430 --> 00:27:56.480
selling her home in it sounds like some of the
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00:27:56.509 --> 00:27:59.589
person who is buying the home may be interested in
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00:27:59.609 --> 00:28:02.549
planting native plants. So, you know, it is happening and
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00:28:02.569 --> 00:28:04.410
that makes me very excited. And then we, you know,
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00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:07.450
we sort of build and, and extend out as, as
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00:28:07.509 --> 00:28:10.269
we go. I think one of the things that with
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00:28:10.490 --> 00:28:12.750
less law and more life, because I think we, we
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00:28:12.890 --> 00:28:17.250
tend to look at people who are doing it wrong
447
00:28:17.329 --> 00:28:19.589
and we tell them they're doing it wrong. And that's
448
00:28:19.650 --> 00:28:22.589
a natural instinct because you see them putting pesticides down
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00:28:22.630 --> 00:28:24.230
and it's going to come into your property and ugh,
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00:28:24.750 --> 00:28:28.170
Why are they doing it to themselves, let alone to
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00:28:29.230 --> 00:28:31.269
us and our family and all the creatures that we're
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00:28:31.309 --> 00:28:36.089
trying to provide habitat and food for in our yards?
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00:28:36.130 --> 00:28:39.569
We don't want those pesticides coming to ours. So it's
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00:28:39.609 --> 00:28:41.619
a natural inclination to tell them what they're doing wrong.
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00:28:41.630 --> 00:28:44.000
But I think one of the things that hooked me
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00:28:44.059 --> 00:28:48.420
about the Less Lawn, More Life challenge initially was, and personally,
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00:28:49.039 --> 00:28:53.390
it's science-based, it's positive, it's encouraging. And it gives people
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00:28:53.450 --> 00:28:56.549
a way to see and track their progress. And I think,
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00:28:56.809 --> 00:29:00.869
you know, it's not that they're not talking about what
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00:29:00.910 --> 00:29:04.400
is bad for the environment, but their message is so
461
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.319
incredibly positive. And if you go to some of their webinars,
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00:29:07.359 --> 00:29:10.759
which are free, you just get this excitement and this
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00:29:10.859 --> 00:29:14.579
joy that I think a lot of people don't think about. And,
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00:29:14.839 --> 00:29:19.539
you know, the first time you actually see a monarch
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00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:25.740
butterfly fly, showing up and pollinating a plant in your
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00:29:25.779 --> 00:29:30.329
garden that you've specifically planted for that butterfly, it's amazing
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00:29:30.369 --> 00:29:32.009
how exciting you feel. I mean, you might get a
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00:29:32.009 --> 00:29:34.109
little annoyed the next day when something snips that plant
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00:29:34.130 --> 00:29:37.450
down that you've also invited into your yard. But you know,
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00:29:37.650 --> 00:29:39.799
the whole idea is you get excitement and you get
471
00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.619
joy and that is very contagious. And then if you
472
00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:46.839
are in a group of people and connecting maybe initially online,
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00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:50.000
but then you find out that people locally are doing
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00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.839
it too, and then you're working together, that sense of
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00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:55.680
excitement just grows, you know, so you can individually and
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00:29:55.829 --> 00:30:00.930
online learn and develop community, but you can also, there's
477
00:30:00.950 --> 00:30:04.640
so many, um, opportunities for that kind of community in
478
00:30:04.700 --> 00:30:07.119
our own towns as well. And there are tons of
479
00:30:07.180 --> 00:30:10.559
resources out there. So when I talk about, um, Wilder
480
00:30:10.599 --> 00:30:13.519
and Planet Wild and Less Long, More Life, they partnered
481
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:18.150
with a lot of organizations locally, like Healthy Yards and, um,
482
00:30:18.589 --> 00:30:23.349
and Bedford 2030 initially. Uh, but then also, um, they,
483
00:30:23.410 --> 00:30:27.930
they partnered with Doug Tallamy's, um, nonprofit, the, uh, homegrown
484
00:30:27.970 --> 00:30:31.329
national park, and they partner with wild ones and that
485
00:30:31.430 --> 00:30:35.140
partner list has expanded now. So you can actually, you
486
00:30:35.180 --> 00:30:37.299
don't have to go through less alone, more life. And, uh,
487
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:39.559
but it's a great way to just learn more about
488
00:30:39.579 --> 00:30:43.039
these and see what resources they offer. Um, but these
489
00:30:43.099 --> 00:30:46.789
are organizations and Doug Tallamy is sort of the, the, the,
490
00:30:46.970 --> 00:30:51.359
the godfather of, uh, rewilding and reducing your lawn and
491
00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:54.160
creating more life by doing that, by adding native plants
492
00:30:54.240 --> 00:30:55.279
and trees and shrubs.
493
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:55.779
Right.
494
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:59.660
And people can go to Homegrown National Park and, you know,
495
00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:03.240
there's also, we figure messaging is important. Talking to your
496
00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:07.259
neighbors is okay if you can get their ear, but
497
00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:11.819
right now everything is digital. So digital engagement is very important,
498
00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:14.480
I think. And you were just talking, the various groups
499
00:31:14.500 --> 00:31:19.380
you mentioned, Healthy Yards, Homegrown National Park, everybody's online. Everybody
500
00:31:19.420 --> 00:31:22.619
can give you information and you can get, uh, information
501
00:31:22.660 --> 00:31:26.299
about web webinars and how you can, you know, find
502
00:31:26.380 --> 00:31:28.559
out about what native plants is native to your area,
503
00:31:28.599 --> 00:31:32.279
because we're here in New York in, in, you know,
504
00:31:32.420 --> 00:31:37.000
countryfied area. Uh, Malcolm's out in, in LA, he's in
505
00:31:37.019 --> 00:31:40.680
the Valley and his, what he information he's going to
506
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:45.500
get is completely different than what we're getting. And also what's,
507
00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:47.119
you know, in the middle of the country, what's in
508
00:31:47.160 --> 00:31:52.009
the desert. Uh, so it's important that people reach out
509
00:31:52.069 --> 00:31:56.269
to these areas and to the, to these, uh, websites
510
00:31:56.470 --> 00:32:00.490
that get, you know, all this information. So do they matter?
511
00:32:01.190 --> 00:32:04.670
An interesting group that, um, is also a national organization
512
00:32:04.710 --> 00:32:07.549
is wild ones and they are chapter based. So they
513
00:32:07.569 --> 00:32:10.589
have the central organization, but they have all these chapters
514
00:32:10.950 --> 00:32:15.559
throughout the States and they, um, we have one here
515
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:25.490
in our area. It's, um, the lower Hudson Valley chapter of, um, Westchester. And, um, so,
516
00:32:25.730 --> 00:32:31.009
but there are really active ones down in Virginia and, um,
517
00:32:31.130 --> 00:32:36.980
in Louisiana and California and all throughout the States. So, um, those,
518
00:32:37.140 --> 00:32:40.380
those are actually really great hubs, even if they're not local,
519
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:42.920
you know, some States are larger than others, but, um,
520
00:32:43.019 --> 00:32:46.400
even if they're not within driving distance, um, They offer
521
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:50.920
local resources and you can always go to your state's
522
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:55.619
cooperative and find out more about what kind of resources
523
00:32:55.660 --> 00:32:58.049
and plans you can get there. I want to go
524
00:32:58.069 --> 00:32:59.710
back to something you said, though. There's a lot of
525
00:32:59.769 --> 00:33:04.670
information online. But I think, again, going back to information
526
00:33:04.710 --> 00:33:08.089
alone doesn't always change behavior. So, you know, we can
527
00:33:08.109 --> 00:33:11.390
put out a newsletter each month and say, here's why
528
00:33:11.430 --> 00:33:13.730
you should be doing these things in your yard. It
529
00:33:13.769 --> 00:33:16.089
doesn't change the behavior, even if the people want to,
530
00:33:16.170 --> 00:33:20.630
because you think about young parents who move here or
531
00:33:20.690 --> 00:33:25.660
to any suburb or, you know, even in cities, everybody's so,
532
00:33:25.759 --> 00:33:29.640
so busy. And so it is what we need to
533
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:36.529
try to do is organizations and municipalities and nonprofits and
534
00:33:36.670 --> 00:33:40.210
for-profits that are in this space. try to make it
535
00:33:40.349 --> 00:33:42.529
easy for people to come and do a little bit
536
00:33:42.569 --> 00:33:46.650
of engagement. Don't do a lot, but make them at
537
00:33:46.710 --> 00:33:49.109
different hours of the day because some people, a lot
538
00:33:49.130 --> 00:33:52.630
of a garden club, our garden club in town does
539
00:33:52.670 --> 00:33:55.970
these wonderful, wonderful tours, but they're during the day. So
540
00:33:56.190 --> 00:34:01.130
you can't really encourage people who are working all day
541
00:34:01.170 --> 00:34:03.519
and picking up their kids from school, being able to
542
00:34:03.619 --> 00:34:06.759
learn from those experiences. I find them very fulfilling. I
543
00:34:06.779 --> 00:34:09.050
have a flexible schedule. I can take an hour out
544
00:34:09.090 --> 00:34:10.449
of my day and run over and do that, but
545
00:34:10.489 --> 00:34:13.090
not everybody has that. So I think the idea is,
546
00:34:13.210 --> 00:34:16.230
you know, how do we, um, how do we meet
547
00:34:16.250 --> 00:34:19.610
them where they are? The earth day this year was phenomenal.
548
00:34:19.670 --> 00:34:21.849
And I think that's, that's another, like an event like
549
00:34:21.889 --> 00:34:24.619
that where the kids are actually the reason why the
550
00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:27.400
parents are showing up and the kids get involved in,
551
00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:30.400
you know, dipping their net into the pond or going
552
00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:34.039
on a little scavenger hunt, uh, to look at wild, um,
553
00:34:34.539 --> 00:34:39.380
you know, uh, native plants or native wildlife. And then
554
00:34:39.420 --> 00:34:41.619
their parents are along for the ride and then they
555
00:34:41.659 --> 00:34:43.920
get to meet people in their community. And then you
556
00:34:43.940 --> 00:34:47.079
start having conversations. You find out what your local conservation
557
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:49.980
board does. You see some other organizations that are out
558
00:34:50.019 --> 00:34:52.840
there that you might even think you could fit in
559
00:34:52.880 --> 00:34:55.500
a few hours a week to volunteer with them. So
560
00:34:55.800 --> 00:34:58.719
it's things like that. And so it's a multi-pronged effort
561
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.760
to try to get people together in a community. And
562
00:35:01.780 --> 00:35:03.579
I think it is, there's a trick to getting the
563
00:35:03.619 --> 00:35:05.969
kids involved. I think the.
564
00:35:05.750 --> 00:35:09.150
Schools have to be involved in some way.
565
00:35:09.510 --> 00:35:11.550
The schools are very, and parents can get it that,
566
00:35:11.710 --> 00:35:13.690
they can learn it that way too. But I think
567
00:35:13.710 --> 00:35:18.130
the schools, we have two students on our conservation board. You,
568
00:35:18.369 --> 00:35:22.159
I think on the sustainability board, have students as well.
569
00:35:22.480 --> 00:35:24.579
Yeah, we just did a podcast. We just did the
570
00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:27.000
latest podcast. It'll be out in a week or so.
571
00:35:27.019 --> 00:35:31.699
We'll be talking about green jobs, about the clean sector,
572
00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:34.179
how important it is to train people. Go ahead.
573
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:38.460
Well, a friend of mine, Marie Boster, who lives in town,
574
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:41.579
she held something completely outside of the environmental space. But
575
00:35:41.599 --> 00:35:44.429
this kind of goes to civics as well. She was
576
00:35:44.510 --> 00:35:50.449
holding a very informal get together at her home about journalism,
577
00:35:50.829 --> 00:35:55.710
the importance of local journalism and civic responsibility and being
578
00:35:55.750 --> 00:35:59.739
involved in your community. And she designed it was very informal,
579
00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:02.289
but she designed it with kids in mind, too. the
580
00:36:02.329 --> 00:36:04.570
kids were talking about the same kind of questions and
581
00:36:04.630 --> 00:36:07.289
issues that the adults were. So it wasn't like the
582
00:36:07.329 --> 00:36:10.360
kids just have something to do and we're off having
583
00:36:10.409 --> 00:36:13.659
a serious conversation. They got the kids engaged too. And
584
00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:15.599
even the little ones, the parents were able to help them.
585
00:36:15.619 --> 00:36:18.719
She had little games and charts to fill out and
586
00:36:18.739 --> 00:36:20.659
things like that. And it was very fun. And it
587
00:36:20.739 --> 00:36:25.199
just reminded me that that's how we, it's not that people,
588
00:36:25.539 --> 00:36:28.639
we always assume people don't care or they don't care
589
00:36:28.679 --> 00:36:31.409
enough to make the time But if we structure things
590
00:36:31.469 --> 00:36:34.809
in a way that really draws them in, makes it fun,
591
00:36:35.210 --> 00:36:38.980
makes it joyful, but we're dealing with serious issues that
592
00:36:39.019 --> 00:36:39.820
need to be solved.
593
00:36:39.860 --> 00:36:40.400
That's true.
594
00:36:41.159 --> 00:36:48.800
In your area, the adults, you always read about the parents,
595
00:36:48.869 --> 00:36:54.329
both of them are working. They go in the morning.
596
00:36:55.349 --> 00:36:57.309
I don't know how much activity, but they commute, let's say,
597
00:36:57.349 --> 00:37:00.619
to the city. go into Manhattan or, you know, and
598
00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:02.920
then they take their train every morning at seven o'clock
599
00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:03.659
and they're coming.
600
00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:06.320
Back every morning at eight o'clock.
601
00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:07.260
Yeah.
602
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:09.639
You know, it's a, when do they have time to
603
00:37:09.739 --> 00:37:10.639
get involved?
604
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:17.659
We have some on our conservation board who do that.
605
00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:21.179
And they, they, I think it's where your priorities lie too.
606
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:25.159
You know, for me, I'm, I'm, I'm hardly looking at
607
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:27.639
my schedule and going, Oh, I have all this free time. Um,
608
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.039
but I know it's important cause I have a granddaughter, uh,
609
00:37:30.949 --> 00:37:32.840
and I want to make sure I'm leaving something to her.
610
00:37:32.869 --> 00:37:35.670
So I make the time for this, but not everybody has,
611
00:37:35.690 --> 00:37:38.789
you know, I, like I said, I have a flexible schedule. Um,
612
00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:41.349
I pack it, I pack in a lot to that
613
00:37:41.369 --> 00:37:46.369
flexible schedule, but, um, I, part of it is making
614
00:37:46.409 --> 00:37:49.289
sure I'm leaving something for her. That's better than, than
615
00:37:49.309 --> 00:37:52.550
I found it, but also, um, it gives me joy
616
00:37:52.570 --> 00:37:54.300
to be in the garden and to be doing these things.
617
00:37:54.340 --> 00:37:56.139
So it's good for my soul too. So I think,
618
00:37:56.159 --> 00:38:00.699
you know, if we make them joyful experiences, then people
619
00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:02.630
can get, you know, not everybody's going to want to
620
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:03.809
be out in the yard. I totally get that.
621
00:38:03.829 --> 00:38:06.190
But the important thing is you have the flexibility to
622
00:38:06.250 --> 00:38:06.630
do that.
623
00:38:07.369 --> 00:38:08.610
Mm-hmm.
624
00:38:08.650 --> 00:38:12.010
You know, you're not working, quote, unquote, a job where
625
00:38:12.050 --> 00:38:14.750
there's a boss that you have to report to and
626
00:38:14.769 --> 00:38:16.429
certain work that you have to do.
627
00:38:16.449 --> 00:38:17.530
Mm-hmm.
628
00:38:17.909 --> 00:38:19.550
It's not where you can still get in the middle
629
00:38:19.590 --> 00:38:24.500
of 2, 3 o'clock. You can still... Again, it depends
630
00:38:24.579 --> 00:38:26.980
on the person and their motivation and what they can
631
00:38:27.019 --> 00:38:30.719
fit in. I mean, I was working crazy hours, but
632
00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:33.030
I've been on the sustainability board for a long time
633
00:38:33.409 --> 00:38:36.289
because I felt it was important to do that. I
634
00:38:36.329 --> 00:38:39.570
felt it was important to get things, you know, pass,
635
00:38:40.170 --> 00:38:42.510
you know, got rid of plastic bags and get the
636
00:38:42.530 --> 00:38:43.269
reusable bag.
637
00:38:44.070 --> 00:38:47.699
You're self-motivated. You know the situation.
638
00:38:47.719 --> 00:38:51.539
You've been involved your entire life with even during your
639
00:38:51.579 --> 00:38:52.920
work and the shows that you've done.
640
00:38:53.559 --> 00:38:56.139
It's always been involved with an environment.
641
00:38:57.070 --> 00:39:02.829
Yeah, I mean, it kind of all started at Air America,
642
00:39:03.170 --> 00:39:06.250
where we did a show called Green America. Later, we
643
00:39:06.269 --> 00:39:08.309
had to change the name. I don't know how it
644
00:39:08.349 --> 00:39:11.650
got to the money message, but we were trying to
645
00:39:11.670 --> 00:39:16.559
bring together the corporate responsibility and money that is needed
646
00:39:16.639 --> 00:39:19.880
to help the environment and what their responsibility is because
647
00:39:20.610 --> 00:39:24.219
They seem at this point, especially fossil fuel industries and
648
00:39:24.260 --> 00:39:28.630
all the others, they're looking the other way. And unfortunately,
649
00:39:28.650 --> 00:39:31.300
we have an EPA that's taking... things away that we
650
00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:35.159
spent 50 years trying to get. And it gets very,
651
00:39:36.019 --> 00:39:40.239
you get frustrated. And I think people are frustrated when
652
00:39:40.260 --> 00:39:44.579
they read their paper or on their iPad going into work.
653
00:39:45.599 --> 00:39:47.389
If they're not working or if they're just snoozing, but
654
00:39:47.429 --> 00:39:49.650
if they're reading the Times or the Wall Street Journal.
655
00:39:49.889 --> 00:39:53.269
they see what's going on and, and they have kids
656
00:39:53.349 --> 00:39:55.829
home and they're going, how do they get rid of
657
00:39:55.849 --> 00:39:59.659
the rule that, that, you know, that power plants need
658
00:39:59.699 --> 00:40:02.800
to cut back on their emissions, but now they can
659
00:40:02.820 --> 00:40:06.860
do whatever they want. How can they do things like your,
660
00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:09.980
if you know, car emissions, we don't care anymore about that.
661
00:40:10.019 --> 00:40:14.139
Let's take the rule away. Uh, things that again, worked,
662
00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:19.269
we worked hard to get this done. And it, I guess,
663
00:40:19.369 --> 00:40:21.329
you know, one could get very jaded.
664
00:40:22.230 --> 00:40:27.349
It's very discouraging. And, you know, I remember several years, well,
665
00:40:27.789 --> 00:40:30.739
five years ago, maybe, I was at a dinner party
666
00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:33.039
at a friend's house. And that's when I was thinking
667
00:40:33.059 --> 00:40:39.719
of pivoting my work away from corporate toward environmental organizations
668
00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:44.570
and helping them. And this gentleman I was speaking to,
669
00:40:45.150 --> 00:40:48.110
was a founder of an environmental tech company, you know,
670
00:40:48.280 --> 00:40:52.340
tech to help environmental organizations. And he said, just be
671
00:40:52.380 --> 00:40:56.440
prepared to get your heart broken. It's going to be
672
00:40:56.519 --> 00:40:58.440
a tough business to get into.
673
00:40:58.960 --> 00:41:01.429
Excuse me.
674
00:41:01.469 --> 00:41:04.789
What you're doing is you're working against this whole notion.
675
00:41:05.190 --> 00:41:08.170
Everything that you talk about environment and the dangers is
676
00:41:08.250 --> 00:41:08.889
fake news.
677
00:41:10.210 --> 00:41:11.449
It's not really true.
678
00:41:12.510 --> 00:41:16.289
I mean, we're, it's a hard struggle, you know, against the,
679
00:41:16.389 --> 00:41:19.929
you know, that type of news.
680
00:41:19.949 --> 00:41:22.179
We could, we could, we could go down that path. And,
681
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:25.440
and I don't know if we have enough time in
682
00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:30.639
the day to solve the fake news issue, but I
683
00:41:30.699 --> 00:41:33.360
think the, where I was going with this was, you know,
684
00:41:33.980 --> 00:41:37.139
I recognize that I've got the sort of half glass
685
00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:40.530
full attitude about this because I, I look at systems
686
00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:42.719
and how we, change them. And one of the systems
687
00:41:42.880 --> 00:41:48.510
is journalism. One of the systems is the government, federal, local, state.
688
00:41:49.670 --> 00:41:53.030
So that is part of the system. And some of
689
00:41:53.050 --> 00:41:56.510
that has to change. And I think we are doing
690
00:41:56.590 --> 00:41:58.989
what some of us are doing what we can to
691
00:41:59.010 --> 00:42:03.030
help address those. But where can we actually have change
692
00:42:03.449 --> 00:42:05.639
in terms of the individual homeowner? How do we help
693
00:42:05.659 --> 00:42:09.440
the individual homeowner decide what they can do. Um, and
694
00:42:09.639 --> 00:42:11.260
maybe they can only do a little bit and we
695
00:42:11.300 --> 00:42:13.179
shouldn't judge them for a little bit. Maybe they can
696
00:42:13.219 --> 00:42:16.019
just plant one little spot, uh, five by five in
697
00:42:16.039 --> 00:42:18.380
their yard and have some native plants and that's all
698
00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:18.980
they can do.
699
00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:20.070
That's a start though.
700
00:42:20.090 --> 00:42:22.909
That's the start though. Or, you know, my, my granddaughter,
701
00:42:23.329 --> 00:42:27.750
she came home recently and told her mom that she
702
00:42:27.809 --> 00:42:30.829
only likes vegetables picked fresh from the garden because she
703
00:42:30.889 --> 00:42:33.949
had them in community garden. So her mom's like, well,
704
00:42:34.389 --> 00:42:35.570
I guess I'm going to have to make a garden.
705
00:42:36.269 --> 00:42:39.820
Her parents do not care unless wildlife walks across their
706
00:42:40.159 --> 00:42:43.360
ring camera. They don't really pay attention to wildlife. It's
707
00:42:43.380 --> 00:42:44.960
not their thing. It's not what they, you know, they
708
00:42:44.980 --> 00:42:49.320
don't use pesticides or chemicals in their yards for their daughter. But,
709
00:42:49.619 --> 00:42:52.579
you know, wildlife doesn't do it for them. But, you know,
710
00:42:52.940 --> 00:42:55.969
planting a vegetable garden, you might start seeing what, you know,
711
00:42:56.090 --> 00:42:58.409
animals are nibbling on your leaves and it just might
712
00:42:58.789 --> 00:43:02.849
open up your eyes to other other possibilities. And so
713
00:43:02.869 --> 00:43:05.269
that's kind of how you have to look at it. But,
714
00:43:05.670 --> 00:43:09.349
you know, and maybe one day they may ask, you know, Nana,
715
00:43:09.389 --> 00:43:13.150
how do we get the black swallowtail butterfly caterpillars to
716
00:43:13.190 --> 00:43:15.489
not eat our parsley? And I can say, you can
717
00:43:15.510 --> 00:43:17.429
plant all these native plants and they will take care
718
00:43:17.469 --> 00:43:19.510
of that. You know, so it's just, it's those little
719
00:43:19.550 --> 00:43:20.730
things that you can try to do.
720
00:43:21.510 --> 00:43:25.469
But that's important because the quote unquote long, low hanging fruit,
721
00:43:25.989 --> 00:43:28.320
we've been saying that on sustainability board for years, right?
722
00:43:29.090 --> 00:43:32.949
get people to use LEDs, get people to use reusable bags,
723
00:43:32.969 --> 00:43:36.159
you know, stuff like that. And it does add up
724
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:39.760
because we've reduced plastic use in this town. And now
725
00:43:40.099 --> 00:43:44.659
statewide now, less of that is going into the waterways
726
00:43:44.739 --> 00:43:48.489
and the landfills. And that's important. And, you know, you
727
00:43:48.510 --> 00:43:50.849
have to look at the backstory of everything. Everything has
728
00:43:50.889 --> 00:43:51.690
a backstory.
729
00:43:52.210 --> 00:43:55.510
And everything leads to somewhere else, right? Exactly. What's in
730
00:43:55.530 --> 00:43:58.650
your yard. doesn't stay in your yard. And that, I
731
00:43:58.670 --> 00:44:01.099
think that, you know, going back to Doug telling me,
732
00:44:01.420 --> 00:44:04.260
you know, his idea, there's so much private land in
733
00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:11.219
our country and we as individual land owners, not land stewards,
734
00:44:11.260 --> 00:44:14.750
let's call ourselves that, but individual land stewards, we can
735
00:44:14.929 --> 00:44:18.210
actually make a difference if more and more and more
736
00:44:18.289 --> 00:44:20.849
and more and more of us are doing this, that
737
00:44:20.889 --> 00:44:25.030
we can actually help the ecosystem. And if our yards connect, um,
738
00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:28.590
You know, those are all the possibilities. And so the
739
00:44:28.619 --> 00:44:32.070
more that grows, the better. It's not to say this stuff,
740
00:44:32.550 --> 00:44:35.349
it's going to, there are still plenty of yards out
741
00:44:35.389 --> 00:44:37.989
there that have not, they still look like the perfect
742
00:44:38.030 --> 00:44:42.809
little green lawn with the perfect little green shrubs from
743
00:44:42.829 --> 00:44:46.860
another country, which is how everybody's been trained all along
744
00:44:46.929 --> 00:44:49.539
to have their yard. So this isn't going to change overnight,
745
00:44:49.820 --> 00:44:51.980
but we're making progress. And I think if we can,
746
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.449
we just keep, keep at it in our own yards,
747
00:44:56.010 --> 00:45:00.590
and try to teach our friends and neighbors. Organic doesn't
748
00:45:00.630 --> 00:45:07.309
necessarily always mean safe. So just slowly educate, rethinking the
749
00:45:07.329 --> 00:45:09.869
models we've been dealing with for decades.
750
00:45:10.090 --> 00:45:10.250
Right.
751
00:45:10.289 --> 00:45:16.909
It takes individual people like yourself, like Max, to pick
752
00:45:16.969 --> 00:45:19.449
up the torch. And you can do what you could do.
753
00:45:19.590 --> 00:45:20.969
It's one step.
754
00:45:20.809 --> 00:45:21.269
At a time.
755
00:45:21.289 --> 00:45:22.210
Right. Mm-hmm.
756
00:45:22.809 --> 00:45:23.429
Absolutely.
757
00:45:24.050 --> 00:45:26.670
I look at it as a city boy, so to speak.
758
00:45:27.329 --> 00:45:30.690
I look at, you know, the broader picture sometimes, which
759
00:45:30.750 --> 00:45:32.380
I can't, you know, you can't do that. You have
760
00:45:32.389 --> 00:45:33.949
to go one step at a time.
761
00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:37.659
You can do both. You can think systems and little,
762
00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:40.320
you know, the macro and the micro you can do,
763
00:45:40.420 --> 00:45:44.480
but it's very easy to, wherever you're comfortable, you're going
764
00:45:44.500 --> 00:45:47.480
to go, right? So if you're more, you know, focused,
765
00:45:47.940 --> 00:45:50.159
I found focusing on my yard when things seem too
766
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:54.130
chaotic at the global level, um, makes me feel better
767
00:45:54.190 --> 00:45:56.730
because I feel like I'm at least making a small difference.
768
00:45:57.110 --> 00:45:57.329
Yeah.
769
00:45:57.769 --> 00:46:00.150
I feel that way too. I feel when I, you know,
770
00:46:00.170 --> 00:46:04.090
when I have my front yard, you know, I'm saying this, we, we, we,
771
00:46:04.269 --> 00:46:07.230
we try to keep that it's mostly clover and moss.
772
00:46:07.630 --> 00:46:09.489
So I don't even have to, you know, you can
773
00:46:09.809 --> 00:46:15.250
plant a lawn. That's not the usual green grassy stuff.
774
00:46:15.869 --> 00:46:18.110
There are other things you can put into your lawn.
775
00:46:18.710 --> 00:46:22.980
You can go online, you can, You can get plants
776
00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:27.480
and you can get grasses, clover, for instance, and others.
777
00:46:27.519 --> 00:46:30.800
There's others. I know when I have Victoria on, she
778
00:46:30.820 --> 00:46:32.090
just rattles them off.
779
00:46:32.670 --> 00:46:35.210
And she'll tell you clover is not a native plant.
780
00:46:35.289 --> 00:46:41.309
The bunnies love it, so it's fine. And it keeps
781
00:46:41.349 --> 00:46:43.090
them happy. They won't eat the other stuff.
782
00:46:43.250 --> 00:46:47.519
But there's other stuff you can plant, which I want
783
00:46:47.539 --> 00:46:48.219
to do as well.
784
00:46:49.210 --> 00:46:52.750
And also there are lots in your local community, native
785
00:46:53.090 --> 00:46:57.170
plant swaps where you can bring something in, get another one.
786
00:46:57.510 --> 00:46:59.329
You don't always have to bring something in. They'll give
787
00:46:59.349 --> 00:47:01.800
it to you anyway. They have native, you know, there's a,
788
00:47:01.860 --> 00:47:06.079
there are great seed sales. There, you know, there's so
789
00:47:06.139 --> 00:47:09.559
many resources and there's so many, I know, you know,
790
00:47:10.059 --> 00:47:12.699
only old people are on Facebook. I'm an old person,
791
00:47:12.719 --> 00:47:15.500
so I can say that. But, you know, there are
792
00:47:15.579 --> 00:47:19.679
so many groups on Facebook. throughout the country that are that,
793
00:47:19.739 --> 00:47:23.920
you know, for, um, native planting and, and, um, all
794
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:26.739
those kinds of resources. So, um, you know, you can
795
00:47:26.760 --> 00:47:29.639
look those up and find, find plenty of ways to
796
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:32.510
do this and, and your neighbor down the street who
797
00:47:32.710 --> 00:47:35.369
has a yard that looks a little different than yours,
798
00:47:35.989 --> 00:47:37.409
you might want to ask them cause they might be
799
00:47:37.449 --> 00:47:39.469
willing to share some ideas. They've probably been at it
800
00:47:39.489 --> 00:47:41.690
a lot longer. So, you know, there are all those
801
00:47:41.710 --> 00:47:44.420
types of things. I think, um, One of the things
802
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:48.519
that we've lost over the decades is this idea of community.
803
00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:51.320
And I think I mentioned to you, Maxine, that, you know,
804
00:47:51.489 --> 00:47:56.690
the Bowling Alone book by Robert Putnam. And I think
805
00:47:56.730 --> 00:47:58.710
he just came out with a documentary. I haven't seen
806
00:47:58.769 --> 00:48:02.570
it yet, but it's Join or Die. It's this whole
807
00:48:02.610 --> 00:48:05.869
idea about how our sort of social connections have disintegrated
808
00:48:05.889 --> 00:48:09.670
over the last decades. You know, since the 1950s, 60s,
809
00:48:09.710 --> 00:48:15.219
when America was a really community-driven country. society and we've,
810
00:48:15.380 --> 00:48:18.550
we've become so fragmented. And so I think one of,
811
00:48:18.719 --> 00:48:21.659
one of the things I'm seeing in the Earth Day event,
812
00:48:21.719 --> 00:48:24.179
but just the community events that we have in our
813
00:48:24.239 --> 00:48:29.809
town really bring people together and getting a little neighborhood
814
00:48:29.869 --> 00:48:32.489
coalition together, even if you're, you know, you don't feel
815
00:48:32.510 --> 00:48:34.250
like going to a big Earth Day event, but even
816
00:48:34.289 --> 00:48:36.030
if you get your, like your neighborhood together.
817
00:48:36.050 --> 00:48:37.909
But your farmer's markets too.
818
00:48:38.409 --> 00:48:38.789
Yeah.
819
00:48:38.869 --> 00:48:40.449
And all of those kind of, Yeah.
820
00:48:40.510 --> 00:48:43.269
And all those kinds of things, but it helps you
821
00:48:43.309 --> 00:48:46.510
build connection. It helps you build community. You get to
822
00:48:46.550 --> 00:48:48.929
know people who might be interested in the same or
823
00:48:49.230 --> 00:48:52.989
different things that you might be interested in and you
824
00:48:53.010 --> 00:48:55.800
might make some friends. And so, you know, parents of
825
00:48:55.860 --> 00:48:59.400
school kids, they have, they have opportunities to connect through
826
00:48:59.420 --> 00:49:03.019
the school, but parents whose kids have left school already,
827
00:49:03.760 --> 00:49:05.579
those of us who come to, you know, move into
828
00:49:05.599 --> 00:49:08.840
the area and, who don't have kids. We've got grandkids
829
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:11.219
who live elsewhere. You know, there are all sorts of
830
00:49:11.219 --> 00:49:14.139
ways to connect with your community. And it really is
831
00:49:14.139 --> 00:49:17.840
good for us emotionally, mentally to make those connections. And it's,
832
00:49:18.260 --> 00:49:22.139
and I think gardening together, I think, you know, getting
833
00:49:22.179 --> 00:49:24.920
involved in some of these activities has been so joyful
834
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:28.510
for me. So our garden club in town, amazing people,
835
00:49:28.570 --> 00:49:31.130
and they do all sorts of little projects throughout the
836
00:49:31.170 --> 00:49:33.409
town that requires an hour of your time and you
837
00:49:33.429 --> 00:49:35.389
can go there with your kids and you can plant
838
00:49:35.429 --> 00:49:39.199
some stuff and it's wonderful. And so why not, why not,
839
00:49:39.570 --> 00:49:42.510
Try those things out. Instead of getting on your phone
840
00:49:42.570 --> 00:49:46.039
and doom scrolling, get outside and go with your kids.
841
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:48.900
And do one of these events. Also, go to your libraries, too.
842
00:49:49.099 --> 00:49:52.260
They have a lot of information about this and a
843
00:49:52.300 --> 00:49:54.559
lot of things. So there's a lot of things you
844
00:49:54.579 --> 00:49:58.110
can do to get yourself a little more involved. And
845
00:49:58.170 --> 00:50:04.630
do whatever you can. Start small. It's okay. So we're
846
00:50:04.650 --> 00:50:07.900
kind of wrapping here. We hit the wrap. Uh, so,
847
00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:11.139
so any just quick words, uh, to, to tie everything
848
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:13.500
up and where can people get more, more information?
849
00:50:14.900 --> 00:50:18.840
Um, I, I have said a lot. Um, I think,
850
00:50:19.940 --> 00:50:24.079
you know, really it is around, um, uh, my, the
851
00:50:24.099 --> 00:50:26.900
thought that I'm exploring is really that sense of connection
852
00:50:26.920 --> 00:50:33.119
that it drives curiosity. It drives learning. It drives participation.
853
00:50:33.139 --> 00:50:37.099
It drives stewardship and all of those. It's a theory
854
00:50:37.139 --> 00:50:39.340
I'm working on, but it might lead to change. It
855
00:50:39.519 --> 00:50:43.219
might lead to actually having you change. And so I'm
856
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:46.730
still writing about it and formulating my ideas and, you know,
857
00:50:47.570 --> 00:50:50.690
and I'll keep sharing some of those. But I think
858
00:50:50.730 --> 00:50:53.590
there's a way to bring us all together. And, you know,
859
00:50:53.630 --> 00:50:59.210
conservation is my focus, but civic engagement in general is
860
00:50:59.329 --> 00:51:02.309
so important. And the more we get involved in our
861
00:51:02.349 --> 00:51:04.750
communities at the local level, I think the better off
862
00:51:04.789 --> 00:51:05.070
we are.
863
00:51:06.159 --> 00:51:08.760
I've been thinking while you're talking, it also gets you
864
00:51:08.960 --> 00:51:11.719
more involved with your children and in certain cases with
865
00:51:11.739 --> 00:51:12.519
your grandkids.
866
00:51:13.059 --> 00:51:15.179
You have a certain commonality there.
867
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:15.800
Right.
868
00:51:15.840 --> 00:51:17.760
Grow a garden with your grandkids. If you have property,
869
00:51:18.300 --> 00:51:20.039
start that going. I'm glad you're doing it.
870
00:51:21.050 --> 00:51:22.090
Dig with your grandchild.
871
00:51:23.110 --> 00:51:24.869
Dig with your grandchild. I like that.
872
00:51:25.190 --> 00:51:26.750
Well, you'll be finding out about that soon.
873
00:51:27.170 --> 00:51:31.610
Yeah. I was sorry I looked at my phone, but
874
00:51:31.650 --> 00:51:35.550
I was getting information. There was a doctor's visit today.
875
00:51:36.610 --> 00:51:39.699
They're all excited, so they sent me a text. But anyway.
876
00:51:39.780 --> 00:51:40.420
And the update.
877
00:51:40.699 --> 00:51:42.199
Congratulations in advance.
878
00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:47.000
Thank you. Thank you. So, yeah, that's exciting. Joyful news
879
00:51:47.039 --> 00:51:51.780
to get in this craziness. And just for people out there,
880
00:51:51.880 --> 00:51:56.800
please make sure you are registered to vote. Vote just now.
881
00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:00.179
literally our lives do depend on it. You've got to
882
00:52:00.219 --> 00:52:02.769
get out there and please make sure everything's in order
883
00:52:03.070 --> 00:52:05.789
so that when you get there or mail a ballot,
884
00:52:05.829 --> 00:52:11.309
it's all correct and they can't dispute it. So June,
885
00:52:11.769 --> 00:52:15.199
as usual, incredible. You have to come back. I mean,
886
00:52:15.219 --> 00:52:18.010
people need to hear all this. So you know, you're
887
00:52:18.030 --> 00:52:19.909
going to, you're on, you're on the a list of,
888
00:52:19.929 --> 00:52:20.909
you got to come back soon.
889
00:52:21.809 --> 00:52:24.409
Really enjoyable conversation.
890
00:52:24.739 --> 00:52:27.480
And thanks, thanks for being on. And thanks for joining
891
00:52:27.579 --> 00:52:30.179
us for the many shades of green. For more info
892
00:52:30.219 --> 00:52:34.599
and shows, go to Hudson river, radio.com, Malcolm presents.com and
893
00:52:34.619 --> 00:52:38.000
the many shades of green.com. Send us your thoughts at
894
00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:42.320
team shades of green on Instagram, Facebook threads, blue sky,
895
00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:46.110
subscribe to our podcast. We're on all major apps. A
896
00:52:46.150 --> 00:52:50.139
shout out to Neil. We love you, Neil. Brian and
897
00:52:50.179 --> 00:52:53.699
Malcolm for all their help. Remember, please pick a shade
898
00:52:53.719 --> 00:52:57.960
of green and raise your eco and social consciousness because
899
00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:03.369
it's conservation and civic duty that's tied in. I'm Maxine
900
00:53:03.409 --> 00:53:05.849
Margo Rubin, and we will see you again next time.
901
00:53:26.289 --> 00:53:28.809
This is HudsonRiverRadio.com.