578: Scott Galloway - Adding Surplus Value, Asking For What You Want, Ketamine Therapy, Crude Humor, Being Moved To Tears, & The Algebra of

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Nothing really wonderful is going to happen to you without
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taking an uncomfortable risk.
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Scott Galloway, CNN Plus host and professor of marketing at
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NYU Stern.
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I think Mark Zuckerberg is the most dangerous person in
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the world.
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You actually don't talk about your wife very much.
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You also don't seem to be afraid to cry.
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Our flaw in our species is we don't realize how
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fast time is gonna go. Stop keeping score.
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I'm gonna actually talk about this a little bit.
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No one's thinking about your shit as much as you are.
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We don't realize that words are just words. Advice to
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my young self. And it's basically the following. I absolutely
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know how to.
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Get you rich.
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That's the good news. The bad news is the answer is.
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Notion combines your notes and docs into one space that's
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In fact, I just used it the other day to
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help coordinate editing notes with my podcast producer. I love Notion.
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Notion AI turns knowledge into action from summarizing meeting notes
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slash learningleader. That's all lowercase letters. Notion.com slash learningleader. And
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start turning ideas into action. And when you use our link,
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you're supporting our show. Notion.com slash learningleader. Welcome to the
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Learning Leader Show, presented by Insight Global. I am your host,
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Ryan Hawk.
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Thank you so much for being here.
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Text HAWK to 66866 to become part of Mindful Monday. You,
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all over the world, will receive a carefully curated email
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from me each Monday morning to help you start your
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week off right. You'll also receive details about how my book,
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The score that matters. We'll help you become a more
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effective leader. Text HAWK to 66866. Now on to tonight's
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featured leader. Scott Galloway, one of my favorites, is a
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professor at NYU's Stern School of Business where he teaches
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brand strategy and digital marketing to second-year MBA students. He's
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a serial entrepreneur. He's founded nine firms, including L2, Red Envelope, Profit,
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and Section 4. In 2012, he He was named one
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of the world's 50 best business school professors. His most
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recent book is called The Algebra of Wealth, A Simple
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Formula for Financial Security. Also, Scott's podcast, The Prof G Pod,
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is one of the few that I listen to every
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single week. During this conversation, we discuss what it means
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and how to create, quote, surplus value products.
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Scott, welcome back.
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Great to have you here on The Learning Leader Show.
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Thanks for having me, Ryan.
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I was reading chapter four of your most recent book
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about your mom's boyfriend, Terry. You were talking to him
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about wanting to learn about the stock market. And he
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hands you two crisp $ 100 bills and says, go down
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to the village and meet one of those fancy stockbrokers.
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And you met a guy named, I may pronounce his
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name wrong, Cy Gordner, I believe.
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Can you tell me what happened next?
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Yeah, first of all, I changed his name and then
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he reached out to me and said I could use
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his name. His name is Cy Saro. So yeah, eighth grade,
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didn't have a ton of friends. I mean, it wasn't
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a sob story, but I didn't have a lot of friends.
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And my mom's boyfriend, I started asking about stocks, gave
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me two crisp $ 100 bills, walked into Merrill Lynch, sat
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in the reception area and no one paid any attention
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to me. And I got kind of nervous and self-conscious.
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So I walked across the street to Dean Witter Smith Reynolds,
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I think it was at the time. And this woman
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came out, I remember big jewelry, said, how can I
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help you, young man? And I said, I have $ 200.
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And I pulled it out of my pocket. And these
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two $ 100 bills went flying everywhere. And she said, wait
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right here. And she brought me a cellophane envelope. And
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I remember just, you know, how there's certain images that
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are just burnt into your memory or consciousness. And I
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remember seeing the picture of Benjamin Franklin in the part
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of the cellophane you could see in the envelope. And
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this young man with big kind of frizzy hair came
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walking out and he said, hi, I'm Cy Sarah. Welcome
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to Dean Witter. And he took me back to his
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little cubicle, his little stall. He was a new broker.
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And I told him I had 200 bucks and he
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started teaching me about the market. You know, when there's
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more buyers and sellers, the stock goes up. And he
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kind of showed me the bidding system for stocks and
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earnings and why, you know, to try and understand their business.
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And so we decided to take my 200 bucks and
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buy 16 shares of Columbia Pictures. And every day for
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the next two years from Emerson Junior High School, we
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had a payphone booth. You're probably too young to remember those.
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I would go to the payphone booth at lunch at
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1255 and I would put two dimes in and I'd
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call Cy and he'd update me on the markets. And
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I did that every day for two years. And probably
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once a week, I'd walk into Westwood Village and I
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was bored and just hang out with him. And he'd
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give me another lesson on stocks in the market. And
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I've made a lot of money starting and selling businesses,
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but most of my wealth has been always being in
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the market, specifically in stocks. So just that kind of inspiration,
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and I think I understand the stock market better than
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your average bear, and it's been hugely beneficial to me.
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But more than anything, it's a story about the importance
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of having male role models. In addition to my mom's boyfriend,
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this guy who just took an interest in my life,
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he would call my mom once a month just to
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check in and say nice things about him. And he
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was purely selfless. You know, we didn't have any money.
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My mom was a secretary. So he was just doing
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it because he was a nice man. And, you know,
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it's a lesson about the markets. But more than anything,
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it's a lesson about the importance of men getting involved
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in the lives of boys that aren't their own.
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That's why I love it. And you write about it
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in your acknowledgement section as well. How do you try
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to pay that forward? I feel like this is a
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big part of your life today is pouring into other,
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especially young men. Can you just share your overall philosophy
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on that now as you've progressed in your career?
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Yeah, sure.
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But before I sort of break into my song of
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virtue signaling, which I'm good at, um, Let me just
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acknowledge up front, until the age of about 40, maybe 45,
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I never really did anything philanthropic. I never really did
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anything that I didn't see an endgame to helping me,
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professionally or financially or personally. So I was an exceptionally non-generous,
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non-philanthropic person. And, you know, a few things happened, nothing dramatic,
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but incrementally I realized that in my life, I love
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the vision of manhood that Richard Reeves outlined in his
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book of this notion of surplus value, that up until
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the age of 21, 25, you're very much kind of
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in deficit value. You're taking resources from the public school system,
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from government, the love your parents provide. You're just constantly
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taking from society. And at some point, you ideally create
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enough value, whether it's taking care of others, being in
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service to your country or creating economic value, creating a
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business that pays other people, doing a great job at work,
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whatever it might be, where you get to a point
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where you're giving or producing more than you're taking. Surplus value.
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In companies, in the corporate world, it's easier to understand.
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It's called profits, right? A certain amount of inputs goes
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into a company. At some point, more comes out, and
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that's called profit. But when personally do you start creating
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surplus value? And I think that's a decent definition of
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when a boy becomes a man. And quite frankly, a
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lot of people never get there. A lot of people
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are a drain on their relationships to drain on society
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and never really get to a point of surplus value.
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What I see, I'm writing a book now, my next
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book is going to be on masculinity. I think a
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decent test of masculinity or a decent proxy for it
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is the extent that you want to take care of yourself.
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You want to be self-reliant. You want to be strong.
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You want to be skilled. Then you want to get
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to a point where you're a protector of your immediate family.
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Then the people kind of extended family, then your community.
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But I think the real sort of test of masculinity
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or real expression of masculinity is to get involved in
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the life of a boy that is not yours. Because
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the need there is just so dramatic, Ryan. There are
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so many, there are literally millions of young men who
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grow up without a single male role model in their lives.
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And that is because of some unique dynamics in the US.
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We have the second most single parent households of any
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country in the nation behind, just behind Sweden. a lot
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of our neighborhoods that are lower income, a lot of
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the men are incarcerated. You have a school system, K
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through 12, that just doesn't have men. 92% of kindergarten
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teachers are female, 70% of high school teachers, like 80%
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of K through primary school. So there are millions of
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young men who grow up, or boys, I should say,
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without a single man in their life. And We celebrate
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single mothers as we should. I was raised by a
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single mother in the light of my life. But the
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research is pretty clear. The kind of single point of
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failure for when a male starts to come off the
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tracks is when he loses a male role model. He
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becomes much more likely to kill himself, much less likely
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to go to college, much more likely to be incarcerated.
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So the question is, how do we fill that void?
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And unfortunately, and I say this somewhat snarkily, the Catholic
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Church and Michael Jackson have screwed it up for all
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of us because there's now a feeling in the zeitgeist
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where if you're a man and you express interest in
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a boy's life, people are suspicious of you. There's something
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wrong with you. You'd be up to something really, really sinister.
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And as somebody who had just a bunch of men
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fill that void in my life, there are so many
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men out there with love to give, with paternal or
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fraternal emotions and giving that they would like to share
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with young men and boys, but they're worried about. I
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was on Bill Maher, and he just immediately stopped and said, no,
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I'm never getting involved in a 15-year-old boy's life. That
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would be, you know, and the whole audience laughs. That's
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a really unfortunate part of our society. When a 30-year-old
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woman who maybe hasn't had kids yet or has kids
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has the strength and the skills to get involved in
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a teenage girl's life because she can relate to her,
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we don't immediately think she might be a pedophile. So
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I think we have to move to a part of
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our society where if you're successful, it's almost a little
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bit expected that you would get involved in a young
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man's life who may not have the blessing of having
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male role models.
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What was the inflection point or what caused this shift
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in your life? You said you weren't philanthropic, you weren't
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really giving back until 40-ish, mid-40s.
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What happened?
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You know, I don't know if it was a specific event.
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The good news about getting older is you become more thoughtful.
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The bad news is you become more thoughtful. And that is,
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my rap, I don't know what you're, but everyone has
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a narrative they tell other people and they tell themselves.
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And my narrative up until the age of 40 was,
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you know, kind of check my shit out. Raised by
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a single mother, didn't have a lot of money, didn't
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get into college initially, and I overcame all these obstacles,
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and now I'm making a lot of money, and, you know,
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just kind of check me out. The story of overcoming obstacles.
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And then as you get older, if you're honest with yourself,
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you start having a sober conversation around the reality, and
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the reality is, I wasn't born in the 99.9th percentile,
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but I was born in the 99th. To be born
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a white heterosexual male in the 60s in California... meant
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you got free education that was accessible at some of
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the greatest institutions in the world. I went to UCLA
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when there was a 76% admissions rate. I had to
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apply twice, but now it's 9%. It was $ 1, 200 a year.
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Now it's 24 or 34,000, depending on if you're in-state
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or out-of-state. And then I graduated with a 2.27 GPA.
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And what did I do? I got to go to
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graduate school at Berkeley, another fairly esteemed institution that let
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me in with a 2.27 GPA. And then I came
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of age when processing power was coming online, started companies
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when the internet was just firing up. I just had
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so many gale force winds in my back that I
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had to just finally acknowledge this isn't a story of
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overcoming anything. This is a story of just putting up
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sails when there are these typhoon-like winds. And also just
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a general recognition that Um, giving or getting involved in
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other people's lives makes me feel strong. It makes me
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feel successful. It makes me feel masculine. I don't think
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of it as generosity or community minded. It just makes
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me feel good about myself. There's studies now that the,
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one of the fastest ways to snap when, when people
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come to the emergency room, severe depression, a lot of
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times they keep them awake. Supposedly that resets it, uh,
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on a broader level, they're finding with, with young people
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who are depressed. down that one of the quickest ways
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to get them out of that is get them immediately
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involved in a nonprofit helping others. Get them out of
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their head and start helping others. And I just found
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a little bit later in life, I still wouldn't describe
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myself as a philanthropic person. I give away a lot
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of money, but that's pretty easy. But it makes me
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feel strong. It makes me feel successful. And I want
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to model that for my boys. And also, Ryan, do
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you have kids?
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Yeah.
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How old are your kids?
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17 down to nine.
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Oh, yeah, you have a mess of them. How old?
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Yeah.
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I'm sorry, how many?
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Five.
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Jesus Christ. Okay, so.
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Last time we talked about this, you said you're in Vietnam.
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I'm like, we're still there. We're still fighting that battle.
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My God. That's a village. That's a zoo. Like, you,
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I mean, you see what it's like. When you have
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five kids, you're just going to have some kids that
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are going to have problems or issues. And that's just
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a lot going on. And what you discover is that
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like young boys, once they hit a certain age, they'll
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listen to their friends and they'll listen to their friends' dads,
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but they stop listening to you. So the importance of
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other adults in their lives that are good role models
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is really important. And just the data, I think of
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myself as a data person. It's just so overwhelming. This
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is the most anxious, depressed generation of young people in history.
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The purchasing power has gone down while their expenses for
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education and housing have skyrocketed. So they have less opportunity
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for the first time in the history of our country.
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A 30-year-old, average 30-year-old man or woman isn't doing as
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well as his or her parents were at 30. That's
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never happened before. And concurrently, they're reminded every day that
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they're not killing it. They're not, oh, they're not at
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the almond market. hotel, the Almond Gary in Utah. They
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don't have incredible abs. They don't have a hot boyfriend
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or girlfriend. They haven't made $ 3 million trading Solana or Bitcoin.
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It's like things are tougher for them, but their lack
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of success is just thrown in their face a million
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times a day by algorithms addicting them to joy, disappointment, inspiration, upset.
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So I think there's just an enormous opportunity that can
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be somewhat filled by I think it has to be
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a bunch of things. I think it has to be
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government social programs that can do things at scale. But
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I do think there's an enormous opportunity for men to
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get involved in a boy's life. And for me, it's
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just a small nod when I do stuff back to America,
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which gave me enormous opportunity to other, paying it a
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little bit forward and nodding to some of the men
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who were really good to me and filled that void
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in my life. But it's not, I don't even think
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it is philanthropy. It's sort of paying a debt owed.
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And it makes me feel good about myself. It makes
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me feel just better about me.
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One of the things you talked about recently that I
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haven't heard you speak about much. I listen to pretty
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much all your shows. You talk about your boys a ton.
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And I love it.
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I love your stuff when you talk about being a dad.
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I think you probably get that feedback all the time.
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But you actually don't talk about your wife very much,
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your partner. In fact, I don't know if I've ever
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heard you say her name.
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I know her name. I've looked it up online. But
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I don't think I've ever heard you say her name until.
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Recently, you got ketamine therapy and one of the results
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of that was a lot of gratitude for your wife,
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which surprised me because I hadn't heard you talk about
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that before.
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Maybe you're just private.
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I'm not sure why, but I'm curious to hear more
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about the importance of your wife in your life and
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what that ketamine therapy did to help you say, okay,
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I'm going to actually talk about this a little bit.
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Yeah, so you're right. Her name is Beata. I don't
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speak about her on the pods. And it's because she
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has said, don't mention me.
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Really? Why?
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Because I looked up online.
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It looks like she was a complete baller, like her career,
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commercial real estate from Germany, I believe, right?
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Just absolutely crushing it. She doesn't want you to talk
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about her, though?
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No, she's, yeah, she's, look, she's an impressive woman, worked
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at Goldman Sachs. She has an MBA. She's, for most
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of our joint career, she's made more money than me.
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Not that that's everything. People meet us and they immediately
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assume that I'm exceptionally wealthy. And the reality is when
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we met each other, we were both broke. And I'm
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really blessed. And what I would say is, and she's
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just very early on said, do not talk about me.
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She didn't find reward from it. And also I like
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keeping that part of my life. I'm so exposed on
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so many dimensions of my life, Ryan, as you are.
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That was just one nice like secret or thing to
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keep quiet. And it's funny, the most emails I've ever
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received was about my description of my ketamine therapy that
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I did. Have you done ketamine, Ryan?
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I have not.
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No, you said you got to be good at drugs
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to do it. And I don't think I'm, I'm not
359
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very experienced, so it probably wouldn't be.
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Good for me. Yeah.
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And I would say that, you know, we're not friends,
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00:18:23.859 --> 00:18:27.839
but we're friendly, unless you have a psychiatrist who recommends it,
363
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.289
because let me be clear, there's, It's showing incredible benefits
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for people with trauma and PTSD and veterans and people
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who suffer with severe addiction and depression. But this shit
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is not to be taken lightly. It was more intense.
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I did it, not when I'm called recreationally, but more
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out of curiosity. And a friend of mine owns a clinic.
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But it is not to be taken. It's like you
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see a roller coaster and you think, wow, that looks scary,
371
00:18:51.940 --> 00:18:53.259
but I'd like it. And then you get on this
372
00:18:53.299 --> 00:18:59.019
thing and it is 10 times the dips and velocity
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and speed. unknown that you'd anticipated. Anyway, one of the
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00:19:03.410 --> 00:19:05.009
things that came up, the way I would describe it,
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is there's no discovery in the therapy, at least it
376
00:19:08.869 --> 00:19:11.630
wasn't for me, which makes sense. You can't invent things
377
00:19:11.670 --> 00:19:13.519
in your consciousness. They're either there or they aren't there.
378
00:19:13.579 --> 00:19:17.440
What it does is it clarifies, expands, and cements some things.
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00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:20.059
And one of the things that came out that you're
380
00:19:20.079 --> 00:19:25.609
referring to is the most visual or the most obvious
381
00:19:25.710 --> 00:19:28.799
images and thoughts are I have these beautiful pictures of
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00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:30.680
my boys are on my phone and they came in
383
00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:35.289
and sort of this crazy 4d high-def Relief and they
384
00:19:35.329 --> 00:19:37.549
were just there and the word that kept coming up
385
00:19:37.589 --> 00:19:40.190
was impossible And that is and you can feel this
386
00:19:40.230 --> 00:19:42.910
there you can relate to this as a father You
387
00:19:42.950 --> 00:19:47.799
know that relationship is singular You know that what's unusual
388
00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:50.519
for me is they're really the only people that I
389
00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.859
would do more, that I care more about and I
390
00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:54.619
care about myself. I'm not even sure I can even
391
00:19:54.660 --> 00:19:56.700
say that about my partner. I'd like to think that,
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00:19:57.160 --> 00:19:58.880
but I'm not sure at the end of the day
393
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:01.769
if it's true. What I know is true is that
394
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.490
it's more important to me that my kid's well-being than
395
00:20:04.509 --> 00:20:07.569
my own. And the way I feel about them, the complexity,
396
00:20:07.650 --> 00:20:11.349
the joy, the commitment, the The sense of empathy, the
397
00:20:11.390 --> 00:20:14.410
concern I have for them. It just it took me
398
00:20:14.470 --> 00:20:17.509
very deep around that. And it was very, very rewarding.
399
00:20:17.529 --> 00:20:19.609
And the word that kept popping in my mind was impossible.
400
00:20:19.630 --> 00:20:21.829
It would be impossible for them to understand it like
401
00:20:21.849 --> 00:20:24.259
this great secret I have until they have their own kids.
402
00:20:24.970 --> 00:20:26.799
And that was very just sort of rewarding to kind
403
00:20:26.839 --> 00:20:29.259
of play around and explore that. The thing that was
404
00:20:29.319 --> 00:20:31.440
more surprising is that when my wife did come into
405
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:34.240
the picture and it was, again, another beautiful image of her.
406
00:20:35.410 --> 00:20:37.609
It took me back to this moment again. This is
407
00:20:37.690 --> 00:20:40.849
my mom's boyfriend who popped up a bunch. She was
408
00:20:40.910 --> 00:20:43.920
kind of my father figure for a while. Have you
409
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:47.160
ever received anything when you were a kid that was,
410
00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:50.200
you weren't, it was so out of your reach monetarily
411
00:20:50.339 --> 00:20:53.000
or just, it was such a big gift. You never
412
00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:56.480
considered it. It was never even in the realm of
413
00:20:56.529 --> 00:20:59.589
the possible. For me, I had a $ 2 skateboard that
414
00:20:59.630 --> 00:21:02.710
we bought at Kmart. I liked the skateboard. And I remember,
415
00:21:02.730 --> 00:21:04.410
you know, Kids kind of making fun of it a
416
00:21:04.450 --> 00:21:07.049
little bit. It was this basically a piece of plywood
417
00:21:07.109 --> 00:21:12.069
on steel wheels. And there was something called a Bain skateboard, B-A-H-N-E.
418
00:21:12.289 --> 00:21:14.349
And it was 45 bucks. It was shaped like it
419
00:21:14.369 --> 00:21:16.079
had the silhouette of a great white shark. It had
420
00:21:16.119 --> 00:21:18.720
these incredible clear wheels and cool trucks made by a
421
00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:22.809
different company. But it might as well have been 45
422
00:21:22.809 --> 00:21:25.359
million bucks. My mom and I, the idea of me
423
00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:28.839
spending 45 bucks on anything was ridiculous. Anyways, my mom's
424
00:21:28.859 --> 00:21:31.900
boyfriend came home with this thing, this box, this ragtag box.
425
00:21:31.940 --> 00:21:33.400
I think he did that on purpose, so I wouldn't
426
00:21:33.420 --> 00:21:34.859
be expecting it. I think he took it out of
427
00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:36.960
the brand name box and opened it. And there was
428
00:21:36.980 --> 00:21:40.119
this brand new Bane skateboard. And just that feeling of
429
00:21:40.259 --> 00:21:43.460
joy and like, I don't deserve this. And how did
430
00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:45.690
I get this lucky? I can't believe it's mine. It's
431
00:21:45.710 --> 00:21:48.349
sort of like not something I really could ever attain.
432
00:21:49.029 --> 00:21:51.630
That was the sensation I had when these images of
433
00:21:51.690 --> 00:21:54.710
my wife came in. And it was so rewarding because
434
00:21:54.769 --> 00:21:59.130
I think like a lot of marriages, sometimes I see
435
00:21:59.150 --> 00:22:03.069
what's imperfect about my relationship. I focus on, I spend
436
00:22:03.109 --> 00:22:05.430
too much time on the things that I don't love
437
00:22:05.630 --> 00:22:09.450
about my partner. And it just came into full view
438
00:22:09.490 --> 00:22:14.519
that I kind of hit the lottery here. And And
439
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.680
I promised myself I wasn't going to call anyone until
440
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:18.940
the ketamine wore off. I wasn't going to call anyone
441
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:20.799
for 24 hours. And of course, I got out and
442
00:22:20.819 --> 00:22:23.200
called her and said, you're my Bane skateboard. And I
443
00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:25.240
explained it to her. It was very meaningful for her.
444
00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:27.740
But it was nice. It was just nice to have
445
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:31.619
that clarification because the most important decision you'll make, and
446
00:22:31.640 --> 00:22:33.900
I say this in the book, talking about financial security,
447
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:35.730
the most important decision you'll make in your life is
448
00:22:35.750 --> 00:22:38.109
who you decide to have kids with. Because you're in
449
00:22:38.130 --> 00:22:40.289
each other's life for 25 years, and you're going to
450
00:22:40.309 --> 00:22:44.099
be in each other's life financially, emotionally, physically, hopefully. You
451
00:22:44.140 --> 00:22:47.440
raise kids together, the way you approach the world. And
452
00:22:47.579 --> 00:22:51.769
I have, Ryan, some friends who are just so successful
453
00:22:51.950 --> 00:22:56.369
on every dimension. And it's not that they have a
454
00:22:56.390 --> 00:22:58.230
bad spouse, but I would describe them as having a
455
00:22:58.269 --> 00:23:01.869
real partnership. They haven't figured it out. They're not that
456
00:23:01.910 --> 00:23:04.990
invested in each other. And they're constantly measuring each other
457
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:08.059
and keeping score. And they have a life that's just
458
00:23:08.099 --> 00:23:10.279
not as rewarding. And then I have other friends who
459
00:23:10.339 --> 00:23:12.359
aren't as successful on many dimensions, but they have a
460
00:23:12.380 --> 00:23:16.180
fantastic partner. And everything burns a little bit brighter. And
461
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:19.599
so it just kind of struck me that this was
462
00:23:19.660 --> 00:23:22.890
not only a blessing or a gift, but also the
463
00:23:22.930 --> 00:23:24.630
thing that came out, and I've said this a lot,
464
00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:27.650
but again, the thing about this Academy trip, nothing new,
465
00:23:27.730 --> 00:23:30.069
just cementing and going deeper around things you already know.
466
00:23:30.089 --> 00:23:33.539
You know, it was real motivation for me to do
467
00:23:33.579 --> 00:23:34.980
something I was preached, but I don't know what I
468
00:23:34.980 --> 00:23:37.880
was doing, and that is stop keeping score. And that
469
00:23:37.980 --> 00:23:41.559
is with friends, with business partnerships, with my spouse, with
470
00:23:41.619 --> 00:23:45.359
past girlfriends, How much are they contributing? How much am
471
00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:47.700
I contributing? And it can never get out of balance.
472
00:23:47.779 --> 00:23:50.160
I should find a series of relationships where I'm getting
473
00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:52.539
more than I'm giving. And as you get older, I
474
00:23:52.579 --> 00:23:56.019
think a huge unlock, and I'm not suggesting anyone takes
475
00:23:56.079 --> 00:23:59.160
shit or abuse. I, on a regular basis, shed friends,
476
00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:06.089
but stop keeping score. Envision the kind of son, brother, father, uncle,
477
00:24:06.269 --> 00:24:10.309
husband you wanna be, and aspire to be that person
478
00:24:10.769 --> 00:24:13.390
And put the scorecard away because you're naturally going to
479
00:24:13.430 --> 00:24:17.750
inflate your own contribution and sometimes unfortunately minimize theirs and
480
00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:19.789
just aspire to be the kind of person you want
481
00:24:19.829 --> 00:24:22.289
to be. I've done this with my father. My father
482
00:24:22.329 --> 00:24:23.970
wasn't around when I was young. I think I had
483
00:24:23.990 --> 00:24:25.890
a lot of issues with that, a lot of resentment.
484
00:24:25.990 --> 00:24:28.819
And I fell into that trap of thinking my mom's
485
00:24:28.890 --> 00:24:30.720
a saint and my dad's not. You know, when you
486
00:24:30.740 --> 00:24:32.920
come from a divorced parents, you have a tendency to
487
00:24:32.980 --> 00:24:35.730
side with one over the other. And I stopped doing
488
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:37.019
that and said, well, what kind of son do I
489
00:24:37.059 --> 00:24:38.839
want to be? I want to be a generous, loving
490
00:24:38.900 --> 00:24:41.920
son that's there for my father, distinct of whatever I think, however,
491
00:24:42.740 --> 00:24:44.660
you know, all the bullshit in our past. And that
492
00:24:44.680 --> 00:24:46.799
just was an unlock for me. And I get reward
493
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.140
now from being that way. And it just reminded me
494
00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.519
that I have this, I'm incredibly blessed on that level.
495
00:24:53.799 --> 00:24:58.180
And just to reaffirm, like, okay, articulate to yourself, what
496
00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:00.180
kind of partner do you want to be? And then
497
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.390
stop thinking about if and where she doesn't measure up
498
00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:08.980
to my, what I'll call, unreasonable standards, or thinking about
499
00:25:09.559 --> 00:25:11.619
what I've done for her and what she's done for me.
500
00:25:11.819 --> 00:25:16.089
That's just a path to unhappiness or constant frustration. So
501
00:25:17.009 --> 00:25:20.589
the therapy was interesting, but the real fun part was
502
00:25:20.670 --> 00:25:23.730
getting this Bane skateboard in the form of my partner.
503
00:25:24.450 --> 00:25:26.599
There's this great video, Scott, that you may have seen
504
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:29.470
it of Steve Jobs. And he's, I think 10 or
505
00:25:29.470 --> 00:25:32.109
11 years old. He's retelling this time from his childhood.
506
00:25:32.130 --> 00:25:35.130
And he said he wanted some spare parts to build
507
00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:39.109
a frequency counter. And he wanted to call either Hewlett
508
00:25:39.150 --> 00:25:41.049
or Packard. I forget which one of the two, it
509
00:25:41.089 --> 00:25:42.869
doesn't matter. But anyway, he looks them up in the
510
00:25:42.890 --> 00:25:45.890
phone book and he sees, he finds their name and
511
00:25:45.910 --> 00:25:47.319
the phone book and calls them at home.
512
00:25:47.970 --> 00:25:49.799
And he said, Hey, this is Steve jobs. I'm 11.
513
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:52.299
I'm 12 years old. Can I have some spare parts
514
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:54.779
to build a frequency counter? And the guy responds, he said, sure,
515
00:25:54.859 --> 00:25:57.250
come on in. You can come into the office. He
516
00:25:57.269 --> 00:25:59.450
invites them into the office, gives them the spare parts
517
00:25:59.589 --> 00:26:01.930
and gives them a job. And Steve Jobs says, I
518
00:26:01.970 --> 00:26:04.130
was in heaven. And then he ends the video by
519
00:26:04.190 --> 00:26:07.650
saying the difference between people who dream about things and
520
00:26:07.690 --> 00:26:10.650
those who actually do them is they have the willingness
521
00:26:10.769 --> 00:26:15.210
to ask. And that is my way of asking you.
522
00:26:16.029 --> 00:26:18.869
And I want to encourage people to ask because you
523
00:26:19.069 --> 00:26:22.029
are at the Raleigh Hotel, I believe in Miami, Florida
524
00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:25.839
years ago. And because your willingness to go up to
525
00:26:25.890 --> 00:26:31.420
a stranger, I assume a very attractive stranger and ask
526
00:26:31.460 --> 00:26:34.910
them a question, change the entire trajectory of your life.
527
00:26:34.930 --> 00:26:36.589
Can you go back to that day at the Raleigh
528
00:26:36.630 --> 00:26:39.410
Hotel in Miami, Florida and share what happened?
529
00:26:40.509 --> 00:26:43.710
I tell the story in my strategy class at the
530
00:26:43.750 --> 00:26:48.390
second year MBAs at Stern. And it's really simple. I
531
00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:50.950
was at, I was single living in Florida, kind of
532
00:26:50.990 --> 00:26:54.490
living in an arrested adolescent lifestyle. And I went to this,
533
00:26:54.750 --> 00:26:56.630
I went to the Raleigh pool to meet a friend.
534
00:26:56.809 --> 00:26:58.329
In the middle of the day, they had like a
535
00:26:58.329 --> 00:27:00.809
pool party and a DJ. So it's the, you know,
536
00:27:00.829 --> 00:27:03.970
it's the midday sun. And I see this woman that
537
00:27:04.670 --> 00:27:09.890
I'm very attracted to. And I promised myself before I leave,
538
00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:13.019
I am going to speak to this woman. And it's
539
00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.289
not like this woman was sitting there with a sign saying,
540
00:27:15.329 --> 00:27:18.690
come speak to me. She was with another woman, another guy.
541
00:27:18.930 --> 00:27:20.150
As far as I knew, that was her husband or
542
00:27:20.170 --> 00:27:25.119
her boyfriend and wearing literally nothing. And to walk up,
543
00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:27.150
and you know this, Ryan, to walk up in what
544
00:27:27.170 --> 00:27:30.970
I'll call open under the brightness of the midday sun
545
00:27:31.059 --> 00:27:36.099
without the benefit of alcohol and open. And I remember thinking, okay,
546
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:37.440
I've been there now. And I remember thinking, okay, I'm
547
00:27:37.460 --> 00:27:38.779
just going to go home and work out. All right,
548
00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:40.259
I'm just going to get out of here. And I'm like, no,
549
00:27:40.299 --> 00:27:43.940
I promised myself. So I just went over and I said, hey,
550
00:27:43.960 --> 00:27:47.049
where are you guys from? And the net of it is,
551
00:27:48.210 --> 00:27:50.630
several years later, our middle son's name is Raleigh after
552
00:27:50.670 --> 00:27:54.869
Raleigh Hotel. And what I tell young people is nothing wonderful,
553
00:27:55.609 --> 00:28:00.230
nothing really wonderful is gonna happen to you professionally or
554
00:28:00.309 --> 00:28:05.450
personally without taking an uncomfortable risk. The only way you
555
00:28:05.490 --> 00:28:09.390
score above market, above the mean, is you are willing
556
00:28:09.430 --> 00:28:12.869
to take an uncomfortable risk and you develop the core
557
00:28:12.930 --> 00:28:18.880
competence of success. The key to success, real success, professionally
558
00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:24.059
and personally, is the willingness to endure rejection. And it's
559
00:28:24.099 --> 00:28:27.279
my core competence. I ran for sophomore, junior, and senior
560
00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.099
class president in high school, lost all three times based
561
00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:32.740
on my track record, decided to run for student body president,
562
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:36.109
where I went on to, wait for it, lose. I
563
00:28:36.150 --> 00:28:38.690
applied to nine schools. I got rejected from all nine
564
00:28:38.730 --> 00:28:41.150
of them. I appealed, got into UCLA. I applied to
565
00:28:41.150 --> 00:28:45.970
11 business schools, got into two. It is all you need.
566
00:28:46.549 --> 00:28:50.619
The TSA and the CIA have to bat 1,000%. You
567
00:28:50.660 --> 00:28:53.420
have to bat 300 to get into the MLB Hall
568
00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:57.720
of Fame. To be successful, you just need to bat 100,
569
00:28:57.720 --> 00:28:59.160
but you just need to step up to the plate
570
00:28:59.180 --> 00:29:02.960
a lot. If you're not getting rejected a lot, if
571
00:29:02.980 --> 00:29:05.509
you're not reaching out to people who aren't emailing you back,
572
00:29:06.250 --> 00:29:08.769
If you're not constantly trying to find mentors who are
573
00:29:08.809 --> 00:29:10.769
kind of out of your weight class and they don't
574
00:29:10.809 --> 00:29:13.650
respond to you, if you're single and you're not approaching
575
00:29:13.710 --> 00:29:18.630
people and expressing in a thoughtful way that makes them
576
00:29:18.670 --> 00:29:23.880
feel safe, that you are interested in them, you know, romantically.
577
00:29:23.940 --> 00:29:25.880
I mean, don't be a creep. Don't go up and
578
00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:30.240
start talking about their looks or whatever. You're never going
579
00:29:30.259 --> 00:29:30.980
to score above.
580
00:29:30.819 --> 00:29:31.440
Your weight class.
581
00:29:32.579 --> 00:29:35.809
And so the key, and the reality is, even looking
582
00:29:35.829 --> 00:29:38.109
at your organization, if you work at a company, the
583
00:29:38.150 --> 00:29:40.960
most overcompensated people relative to their effort are always the
584
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:45.480
same people. It's salespeople. And the reason why they're most
585
00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:49.930
overcompensated is that 90% of us are not willing to
586
00:29:50.049 --> 00:29:54.309
endure real rejection. It's humiliating. It can upset, it can
587
00:29:54.349 --> 00:29:57.109
ruin your day. You go up to somebody, You take
588
00:29:57.150 --> 00:29:58.769
the chance, you think about it, you see them, you
589
00:29:58.789 --> 00:30:00.589
go up, you start a conversation and they're not nice
590
00:30:00.609 --> 00:30:03.490
to you. And quite frankly, that happens a lot. They're
591
00:30:03.509 --> 00:30:06.059
just not, for whatever reason, they're not open to talking
592
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.920
to a stranger or they have no interest in hearing
593
00:30:08.980 --> 00:30:11.720
about your new business. Or no, they don't want to
594
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:14.099
grab coffee with you and be your mentor, whatever it
595
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.349
might be. Most people are not willing to endure that rejection.
596
00:30:19.650 --> 00:30:22.240
And I was, from a very early age, I was
597
00:30:22.299 --> 00:30:26.079
always able to kind of ask, you know, my first company,
598
00:30:26.140 --> 00:30:27.740
I called the CEOs of the biggest companies in the
599
00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:29.819
world and I said, can I get a meeting? And
600
00:30:29.859 --> 00:30:32.900
most of the time I couldn't even get past the assistant.
601
00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:35.529
I didn't get my emails returned, whatever it might be.
602
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.549
But occasionally it happened to me. I endured a lot
603
00:30:38.589 --> 00:30:41.329
of rejection from women. I endured a lot of rejection
604
00:30:41.390 --> 00:30:44.349
from friends and friend groups that were kind of outside
605
00:30:44.410 --> 00:30:47.029
my pecking order in the social hierarchy of junior in
606
00:30:47.089 --> 00:30:50.990
high school, junior high school and high school. But the absolute,
607
00:30:51.029 --> 00:30:57.730
I've started nine businesses. I'm generously two, four, and three.
608
00:30:58.359 --> 00:31:01.279
But all you need is those two. And because I
609
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:05.220
was willing after failures and businesses that literally drove into,
610
00:31:05.279 --> 00:31:07.839
you know, flew into a mountain and went out in
611
00:31:07.880 --> 00:31:10.680
a ball of flames, I was willing to get up,
612
00:31:10.819 --> 00:31:13.410
mourn for a little bit, and then move on. I
613
00:31:13.450 --> 00:31:16.630
eventually got there. Only one out of seven businesses are successful.
614
00:31:17.250 --> 00:31:19.789
So if you start nine, that means you're probably going
615
00:31:19.809 --> 00:31:22.339
to have a successful business. That's the way I saw it.
616
00:31:23.170 --> 00:31:26.950
So the ability to endure rejection, the ability to forgive yourself,
617
00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:29.359
that's what I think is really difficult for most people.
618
00:31:30.380 --> 00:31:34.700
They do something. They say something. They screw up. They
619
00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:37.740
make a bad investment. They say something unkind. They handle
620
00:31:37.779 --> 00:31:41.960
a relationship poorly. Whatever it might be, they say something
621
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.849
stupid in a meeting. And they just can't get past it.
622
00:31:45.720 --> 00:31:48.740
And I have a pretty decent number of friends who
623
00:31:48.940 --> 00:31:52.640
are staggeringly successful up until the age of 35 or 40.
624
00:31:52.619 --> 00:31:53.890
And then they go out on their own and they
625
00:31:53.910 --> 00:31:56.109
do something and it doesn't maintain the same trajectory they
626
00:31:56.150 --> 00:31:57.990
had working at a large hedge fund. They start a
627
00:31:58.029 --> 00:32:00.829
small hedge fund and they have trouble getting past that
628
00:32:00.890 --> 00:32:03.869
first failure. And, you know, it was almost sort of
629
00:32:03.910 --> 00:32:05.579
a blessing for me. My life had a lot of
630
00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:07.700
failure from a very early age. I wouldn't even call
631
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:09.559
it failure, whatever they call it, you're on your way
632
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:12.930
to success. But I'll reverse engineering back to the best
633
00:32:12.990 --> 00:32:16.059
decision or the most important thing, finding a great partner,
634
00:32:16.859 --> 00:32:20.680
solely a function of scoring above my weight class. And
635
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:22.779
I'm not being humble. Anyone who knows both of us
636
00:32:22.819 --> 00:32:25.160
would agree. It was because I was willing to take
637
00:32:25.200 --> 00:32:26.099
an uncomfortable risk.
638
00:32:27.299 --> 00:32:29.180
That rejection is so huge.
639
00:32:29.569 --> 00:32:32.109
I lost a starting quarterback job in college to Ben
640
00:32:32.150 --> 00:32:33.569
Roethlisberger at Miami University.
641
00:32:33.589 --> 00:32:35.569
I don't know. You don't watch a ton of American football,
642
00:32:35.609 --> 00:32:37.059
but If you're going.
643
00:32:36.920 --> 00:32:39.829
To lose, lose to one of the greatest quarterbacks in
644
00:32:39.849 --> 00:32:40.690
the last 20 years.
645
00:32:40.869 --> 00:32:41.690
Yeah. Yeah.
646
00:32:41.769 --> 00:32:44.670
But anyway, getting rejected and having the head coach look
647
00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:48.589
me square in the eyes and say, he gives us
648
00:32:48.630 --> 00:32:51.160
a better chance to win than you do. so you're
649
00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.640
going to either be the backup or change positions, is
650
00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:57.079
an awesome thing to happen when you're 19, 20 years old,
651
00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:00.269
to be told that the person who adds the most
652
00:33:00.410 --> 00:33:04.750
value is who gets to play. And so that, after
653
00:33:04.789 --> 00:33:06.549
I get done playing, I played after college and a
654
00:33:06.549 --> 00:33:09.369
little bit later I transferred and played somewhere else. But
655
00:33:09.529 --> 00:33:11.559
my first job, Scott, was in sales and for 12 years.
656
00:33:13.009 --> 00:33:13.690
That's what I did.
657
00:33:13.809 --> 00:33:15.869
Smiled and dialed for the first few of those 12
658
00:33:15.869 --> 00:33:18.150
years before I got into some of the senior leadership roles.
659
00:33:18.670 --> 00:33:21.460
And there's nothing better than either people ignoring you, hanging
660
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:24.119
up on you, asking why are you calling me over
661
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:27.700
and over and over. So not only losing a job,
662
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:29.980
having a guy look you dead in the eyes and
663
00:33:30.019 --> 00:33:32.950
tell you that you don't add enough value, then getting
664
00:33:32.990 --> 00:33:36.109
rejected in sales will set you up. Now if somebody
665
00:33:36.150 --> 00:33:39.630
ignores me when I ask them to come on my podcast, okay, next.
666
00:33:40.089 --> 00:33:41.930
I mean, it's just part of the deal.
667
00:33:42.079 --> 00:33:43.740
I think you're saying maybe.
668
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:46.960
Not yet. That was what we always said in our
669
00:33:46.980 --> 00:33:49.420
sales job. He didn't say no. It was not yet.
670
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.400
It's like, no, actually, the guy told you to never
671
00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:54.019
call me again. But I'm like, I'm going to keep going.
672
00:33:54.339 --> 00:33:56.539
I think, though, you're right, though. That willingness to just
673
00:33:56.900 --> 00:33:59.529
make the next call, to make the next ask, to
674
00:33:59.609 --> 00:34:02.750
keep going, to keep going is so huge. So I'm
675
00:34:02.769 --> 00:34:04.950
glad you brought that up because I think being able
676
00:34:05.029 --> 00:34:09.920
to approach somebody and do that. The people I've seen
677
00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:12.239
who sustained excellence over an extended period of time are
678
00:34:12.480 --> 00:34:14.599
usually really good at that. But I want to transition
679
00:34:14.619 --> 00:34:16.960
to another point, something about you that I really admire.
680
00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:20.260
I think one of the ways you build trust with people,
681
00:34:20.420 --> 00:34:23.400
whether you're leading a team in sports or in business,
682
00:34:24.380 --> 00:34:27.619
is I think you laugh together, I think you cry together,
683
00:34:27.820 --> 00:34:30.900
and I think you do hard things together. And the
684
00:34:31.000 --> 00:34:34.860
first two of those you are exceptionally good at. So
685
00:34:34.889 --> 00:34:36.179
I want to talk about humor and I want to
686
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:40.519
talk about being moved to tears. You do not seem
687
00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:45.599
to be afraid to make crazy wild jokes, which are
688
00:34:45.920 --> 00:34:49.039
quite funny at all times. And you also don't seem
689
00:34:49.079 --> 00:34:52.199
to be afraid to cry. So let's start with the
690
00:34:52.219 --> 00:34:55.639
crying first. How did you get to a point to
691
00:34:55.659 --> 00:34:57.780
where you're willing to get on the microphone or on
692
00:34:57.820 --> 00:35:00.780
a stage and be moved to tears?
693
00:35:02.030 --> 00:35:04.969
So, From the age of 29 to 44, I didn't
694
00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:07.900
cry for 15 years. I lost the ability. It's like
695
00:35:07.940 --> 00:35:10.000
you forget how to cry. I didn't cry when my
696
00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:11.920
mother died. I didn't cry when.
697
00:35:11.679 --> 00:35:13.280
I got divorced.
698
00:35:13.639 --> 00:35:17.219
I just lost the capacity to cry. And then I
699
00:35:17.260 --> 00:35:19.980
remember I was watching a movie. I was watching, I
700
00:35:20.000 --> 00:35:22.250
think it was Remains of the Day with Anthony Hopkins.
701
00:35:22.309 --> 00:35:24.670
And I had this weird sensation I didn't recognize. And
702
00:35:24.690 --> 00:35:26.889
I was tearing up. And I thought, oh, this feels
703
00:35:26.909 --> 00:35:28.610
kind of good. I was on a plane. Something about
704
00:35:29.190 --> 00:35:32.070
the pressurization or the altitude in planes makes me very emotional.
705
00:35:32.829 --> 00:35:35.550
And I thought, this feels really nice. And I started
706
00:35:35.590 --> 00:35:38.829
getting better at it. And I decided I was really
707
00:35:38.869 --> 00:35:40.570
going to lean into it. And I had a series
708
00:35:40.610 --> 00:35:42.519
of cognitive tricks when I was on stage in front
709
00:35:42.539 --> 00:35:44.079
of large groups of people or in front of my
710
00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:47.639
class where I would disassociate from what I was feeling.
711
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:50.039
And I think men do this 98% of the time
712
00:35:50.099 --> 00:35:52.960
such that I wouldn't get emotional because I was taught
713
00:35:53.860 --> 00:35:56.239
the moment you got emotional, you lost all credibility. You
714
00:35:56.280 --> 00:35:59.510
lost all sense of manhood. You were vulnerable. You know,
715
00:35:59.610 --> 00:36:01.969
someone was going to see your vulnerability and kill and
716
00:36:02.010 --> 00:36:03.590
eat you. You know, it's just you're taught as a
717
00:36:03.630 --> 00:36:07.849
man that it's just like exposing your rear flank or whatever.
718
00:36:07.869 --> 00:36:11.110
That's just not what you do. And what I have
719
00:36:11.170 --> 00:36:13.789
found is that if I lean into it and I've gotten,
720
00:36:13.909 --> 00:36:16.190
I think I'm really good at it now. And it's
721
00:36:16.210 --> 00:36:18.389
never planned, but I don't let anything get in the
722
00:36:18.449 --> 00:36:21.269
way of it unless it's totally inappropriate. If I'm in
723
00:36:21.309 --> 00:36:23.510
a job review with someone, I don't start crying. But
724
00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:27.739
what I would tell men is that, especially young men,
725
00:36:28.659 --> 00:36:31.280
is that it's a real gift because it informs what's
726
00:36:31.340 --> 00:36:35.780
important to you. There's, you know, there's a scene in
727
00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:38.800
Modern Family where the father, Jay, is talking about his
728
00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:40.840
dad and how stoic he was, and he's not sure
729
00:36:40.860 --> 00:36:44.289
if his dad knew how much he loved him. And
730
00:36:44.369 --> 00:36:46.309
I was so moved by it. And then I thought, okay,
731
00:36:46.349 --> 00:36:48.090
why am I so moved to it? I thought, well,
732
00:36:48.110 --> 00:36:50.210
are there important people in my life that maybe don't
733
00:36:50.289 --> 00:36:53.530
know that I feel very strongly about them? Am I
734
00:36:53.590 --> 00:36:56.820
moved by patriotism? Am I moved, you know, to not,
735
00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:02.059
the ability to cry, it sort of helps inform what
736
00:37:02.099 --> 00:37:05.409
is important to you. Because when you think about it,
737
00:37:05.449 --> 00:37:08.809
I mean, life is a series of activities and things
738
00:37:08.849 --> 00:37:10.449
that happen to you. But what it's really about is
739
00:37:10.489 --> 00:37:14.349
the series of emotions you feel and reward. And to
740
00:37:14.389 --> 00:37:17.679
shut those down, you're just kind of living life at
741
00:37:17.679 --> 00:37:21.199
40 or 50 percent because you don't really know what's
742
00:37:21.260 --> 00:37:23.659
important to you. You don't know what moves you. So
743
00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:26.599
what I recommend is when people find a piece of
744
00:37:27.329 --> 00:37:29.550
I'm not into art, but occasionally if a piece of art,
745
00:37:29.690 --> 00:37:32.150
I think that's nice. I will force myself to stop
746
00:37:32.989 --> 00:37:35.269
and think, why do I like this? What is it
747
00:37:35.349 --> 00:37:38.150
about this that moves me so I can better understand myself?
748
00:37:38.909 --> 00:37:42.349
And when I lean into emotion or I don't lean
749
00:37:42.769 --> 00:37:46.719
out of emotion, it's helped me understand what is really
750
00:37:46.780 --> 00:37:51.960
important to me. And also just to be crass, it's
751
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.619
been a huge component, I think, of differentiation and And
752
00:37:55.659 --> 00:37:58.929
what has helped me connect with people because there's an
753
00:37:58.989 --> 00:38:03.110
enormous white space. If you think about marketing terms for, for,
754
00:38:03.630 --> 00:38:06.789
you know, white straight guys to talk about their emotions,
755
00:38:07.530 --> 00:38:10.730
it's just something we're taught not to do. And so
756
00:38:11.050 --> 00:38:12.849
didn't cry for 15 years. Now I cry at the
757
00:38:12.889 --> 00:38:14.909
drop of a hat and it's a gift. It helps
758
00:38:14.989 --> 00:38:18.590
inform me around stuff around the laughing lean into that.
759
00:38:18.710 --> 00:38:20.570
I didn't laugh a lot when I was younger, I
760
00:38:20.610 --> 00:38:23.409
was voted most comical in high school, which is strange.
761
00:38:24.269 --> 00:38:26.469
but I've never been someone who laughs. I always made
762
00:38:26.489 --> 00:38:29.730
other people laugh. I didn't laugh out loud. And then
763
00:38:29.769 --> 00:38:32.570
when I decided was I need to get better at laughing.
764
00:38:33.110 --> 00:38:35.210
And now when I find something funny, you know, for
765
00:38:35.230 --> 00:38:38.159
about 15 years now, I train myself to laugh out
766
00:38:38.199 --> 00:38:41.519
loud and really lean into it. And laughter creates people
767
00:38:41.539 --> 00:38:43.659
around you start laughing. And then when people around you
768
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:46.900
start laughing, you laugh. I remember my father, who's a
769
00:38:46.940 --> 00:38:49.760
Scottish guy, very charming. He would tell a joke. And
770
00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:51.420
at the end of the joke, he would start laughing
771
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:54.059
so hilariously at his own joke. You had no choice
772
00:38:54.119 --> 00:38:58.360
but to laugh. So leaning into this stuff and ignoring
773
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:00.920
this kind of BS vision of your own masculinity and
774
00:39:00.940 --> 00:39:03.949
what makes you weak or vulnerable, it gives you such
775
00:39:03.989 --> 00:39:07.570
a richer life because you're going to figure out, you know,
776
00:39:07.730 --> 00:39:10.449
when I would cry on weird stuff when Bob Dole
777
00:39:10.510 --> 00:39:14.110
is lifted out of his wheelchair and salutes George Bush
778
00:39:14.269 --> 00:39:17.460
at George Bush's funeral. I'm like, that brings me to tears.
779
00:39:17.500 --> 00:39:21.880
I'm like, well, why? And I'm like, well, I appreciate service.
780
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:24.260
The country means a lot to me. I feel a
781
00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.530
little bit guilty and a little bit weird that I've
782
00:39:27.570 --> 00:39:29.659
never had a chance to serve my country. Well, should
783
00:39:29.699 --> 00:39:32.260
I be serving my country? It just, it creates a
784
00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:37.219
layer of complexity and it informs you that without which
785
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:44.110
your emotions, your real raw emotions are basically illuminate. They
786
00:39:44.219 --> 00:39:47.550
light the landing path for what's important to you. So
787
00:39:47.590 --> 00:39:50.960
I tell, I try and encourage young men you know,
788
00:39:51.039 --> 00:39:53.900
within reason to really try and lean into your emotions
789
00:39:53.920 --> 00:39:56.989
because it's going to illuminate a more rewarding life. It's
790
00:39:57.010 --> 00:39:58.969
going to tell you what's important to you. It's going
791
00:39:58.989 --> 00:40:01.809
to tell you what your kids mean to you. It's
792
00:40:01.829 --> 00:40:04.739
going to tell you what subjects inspire you. So for me,
793
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:08.019
it's been, it's been a gift and it's something, it's
794
00:40:08.059 --> 00:40:10.679
something I just didn't do when I was your age.
795
00:40:11.360 --> 00:40:14.880
What's your process to come up with the initial jokes
796
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:17.099
on the Prof G pod when you're going to, especially
797
00:40:17.139 --> 00:40:20.340
with Ed, it feels like you want to make him
798
00:40:20.400 --> 00:40:23.699
think you're crazy. You want to make him laugh before
799
00:40:23.739 --> 00:40:26.030
you go into the market show on Prof G.
800
00:40:27.130 --> 00:40:29.130
It's really important to have role models because you can
801
00:40:29.230 --> 00:40:31.969
sort of lean into someone else's genius and say, okay,
802
00:40:32.730 --> 00:40:35.349
this person just understands this so well and it's so
803
00:40:35.409 --> 00:40:37.469
insightful and I'm going to really get into it and
804
00:40:37.510 --> 00:40:40.059
try and understand it. And one of my intellectual role
805
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.460
models is Jonathan Haidt, my colleague at NYU Stern, who
806
00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:44.460
I think is actually one of the most influential scholars
807
00:40:44.929 --> 00:40:48.050
of the last decade, if not the last century. And
808
00:40:48.289 --> 00:40:50.690
he's just written this wonderful book called The Anxious Generation.
809
00:40:51.210 --> 00:40:55.610
And he wrote a book called The Righteous Mind. And essentially,
810
00:40:55.650 --> 00:41:00.210
he talked about cancel culture. And I really started getting
811
00:41:00.250 --> 00:41:03.050
into this notion that, OK, it's fine to hold people accountable.
812
00:41:03.289 --> 00:41:04.769
It's fine to say, no, I disagree with you or
813
00:41:04.809 --> 00:41:07.920
I think that's inappropriate. But our society has created a
814
00:41:07.940 --> 00:41:12.659
series of algorithms that create a reward system for finding
815
00:41:12.699 --> 00:41:16.739
something inappropriate or making a cartoon of someone's comments, creating
816
00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:19.369
into something that it isn't, and then pressing on the
817
00:41:19.389 --> 00:41:22.030
soft tissue, calling them out, dunking on them, even to
818
00:41:22.070 --> 00:41:25.269
the point of shaming them and even in some instances
819
00:41:26.269 --> 00:41:30.090
impacting their career professionally. I remember getting an email from
820
00:41:30.150 --> 00:41:33.110
my department chair at NYU 10, 12 years ago saying
821
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:36.380
microaggressions would not be tolerated and went on to list
822
00:41:36.440 --> 00:41:38.619
a series of what I felt were just ridiculous things
823
00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:44.659
that qualified as microaggressions. And I remember thinking, okay, the
824
00:41:44.699 --> 00:41:49.659
thing I don't like about this environment is we've all
825
00:41:49.699 --> 00:41:52.400
become so sensitive that we don't realize that words are
826
00:41:52.420 --> 00:41:56.260
just words. When people say I feel Don't feel safe
827
00:41:56.440 --> 00:41:58.619
or words of violence. I just don't think that's true.
828
00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:01.789
And something I do, I try to do on the
829
00:42:01.869 --> 00:42:06.409
pod is I am purposely profane and vulgar. I mean,
830
00:42:06.510 --> 00:42:11.900
I'd say some pretty salty shit on the pods. And
831
00:42:12.119 --> 00:42:15.300
sometimes it makes the producers uncomfortable. The network Vox has
832
00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.500
always been very supportive of me. Sometimes it makes my
833
00:42:17.539 --> 00:42:20.579
co-host care uncomfortable. Edit usually doesn't make uncomfortable as a
834
00:42:20.579 --> 00:42:24.599
25 year old dude, but there's a strategy behind it.
835
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:28.199
The first is I am generally a profane and vulgar person.
836
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:32.510
And I think more people are thinking stuff, profane and
837
00:42:32.530 --> 00:42:36.210
vulgar things than we'd like to admit. Also, I find
838
00:42:36.250 --> 00:42:39.389
that I'm a progressive. I consider myself a hard caring
839
00:42:39.630 --> 00:42:41.210
liberal or whatever the term you want to use is.
840
00:42:41.889 --> 00:42:44.289
And what I don't like about the left is that
841
00:42:44.329 --> 00:42:47.369
we come across as just fucking humorless, that we can't
842
00:42:47.389 --> 00:42:49.250
laugh at each other, we can't laugh at our differences,
843
00:42:49.409 --> 00:42:51.789
that we're just so quick to say something offends us
844
00:42:51.949 --> 00:42:56.489
or reverse engineer to how something is discriminatory. You know,
845
00:42:56.510 --> 00:43:01.380
my co-host, Kara Swisher, is a lesbian. And I'm constantly saying,
846
00:43:01.389 --> 00:43:04.119
where's your German shepherd? Or did you drive a Subaru there?
847
00:43:04.219 --> 00:43:08.710
I'm saying things that And here's what happens. She pauses
848
00:43:09.110 --> 00:43:11.869
and then she laughs and she gives everyone permission to laugh.
849
00:43:12.010 --> 00:43:15.409
And she makes fun of my sexual orientation and my
850
00:43:15.449 --> 00:43:17.929
kind of boneheaded things that are more she feels are
851
00:43:18.070 --> 00:43:20.239
more commonly assigned to someone born as a male, whatever
852
00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:22.679
you want to call it. And when you look back
853
00:43:22.739 --> 00:43:28.039
in history, the great liberals, the great social commentators oftentimes
854
00:43:28.179 --> 00:43:32.340
were comedians who were exceptionally profane. Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor.
855
00:43:33.590 --> 00:43:36.400
George Carlin. And I'm like, how does the left take
856
00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:40.500
this back? And I see it as a role and
857
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:43.460
a service. If Kara and I can be, no one
858
00:43:43.519 --> 00:43:47.599
questions that we're progressives, but if we can be profane
859
00:43:47.739 --> 00:43:51.429
and make vulgar jokes and make fun of people's differences,
860
00:43:51.889 --> 00:43:54.170
recognizing that sometimes I go too far. I used the
861
00:43:54.190 --> 00:43:58.789
term tallest midget once in this family I don't know,
862
00:43:58.869 --> 00:44:00.929
but as affiliated with the school, reached out to me
863
00:44:00.949 --> 00:44:03.989
and said, our child suffers from dwarfism and this makes
864
00:44:04.510 --> 00:44:07.550
people feel bad. And they were right. And I said,
865
00:44:07.590 --> 00:44:09.760
I'm not going to use that term anymore. You're right.
866
00:44:09.780 --> 00:44:12.000
I shouldn't be saying that. And I'm open to learning.
867
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.059
I'm open to, I was at a South by Southwest
868
00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:17.500
speaking to like 4,000 people. And a guy stood up
869
00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:19.000
and said, when you dress up as a woman in
870
00:44:19.019 --> 00:44:24.119
your videos, it makes my transgender daughter feel bad. It
871
00:44:24.139 --> 00:44:26.909
feels like you're mocking her. And I just had never
872
00:44:26.989 --> 00:44:29.030
thought about that. And I said, I'm not entirely sure
873
00:44:29.090 --> 00:44:32.219
I even understand that. I'm still not making the connection,
874
00:44:32.929 --> 00:44:35.800
but I don't need to make the connection. I want
875
00:44:35.840 --> 00:44:37.380
to be an ally to other fathers, so I'm going
876
00:44:37.400 --> 00:44:39.800
to stop. So I screw up on a regular basis
877
00:44:39.860 --> 00:44:43.360
and I stop. But until then, I'm going to speak
878
00:44:43.420 --> 00:44:45.260
my mind. I'm going to be crude. I'm going to
879
00:44:45.300 --> 00:44:48.059
be vulgar. And I'm going to try and take humor
880
00:44:48.099 --> 00:44:51.739
back for the left. I think the right, something I
881
00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:53.739
admire about them is I think they're a little bit
882
00:44:53.860 --> 00:44:57.530
less sensitive. I think they roll with the punches a
883
00:44:57.550 --> 00:44:59.929
little bit more. And I think it's hurt people on
884
00:44:59.949 --> 00:45:03.909
the left to not be willing to laugh at ourselves,
885
00:45:03.949 --> 00:45:07.469
not make fun of each other in a thoughtful, caring way.
886
00:45:07.610 --> 00:45:09.679
What do you do with your friends? You mock each other.
887
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:13.820
But it's not mean-spirited. And there might be, you know,
888
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.179
you got to be careful that you're not, you know,
889
00:45:16.199 --> 00:45:18.900
disparaging people as a group or trying to, you know,
890
00:45:18.940 --> 00:45:23.650
in any way of diminishing them. But I am very crude. Um,
891
00:45:23.949 --> 00:45:26.150
it offends some people. Most people roll their eyes and
892
00:45:26.170 --> 00:45:28.489
look around for permission to laugh and laugh, but I
893
00:45:28.510 --> 00:45:31.719
want to take, I want to stop this nonsense that
894
00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:34.019
we're all getting scared to say something for fear. We're
895
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:35.980
going to offend each other. It's okay. We should all,
896
00:45:36.460 --> 00:45:40.940
we should all, I love actually what, um, should I
897
00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:44.340
forget who said this? Uh, but it's in some, I
898
00:45:44.380 --> 00:45:46.639
think gestures should be taken with the intent they're given.
899
00:45:47.730 --> 00:45:50.510
And not the opportunity to make someone else feel bad
900
00:45:50.550 --> 00:45:53.269
or show your own virtue points by highlighting what's wrong
901
00:45:53.309 --> 00:45:55.519
or right with that statement. And when I make these jokes,
902
00:45:55.579 --> 00:45:58.599
I'm trying to be funny. I'm trying to highlight, you know,
903
00:45:59.059 --> 00:45:59.760
I'm trying.
904
00:45:59.619 --> 00:46:00.619
To be really irreverent.
905
00:46:01.159 --> 00:46:04.199
But it's somewhat strategic. I really do think the left
906
00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:06.880
needs to take itself less seriously. And I think jokes
907
00:46:08.139 --> 00:46:11.070
about sex and whatever it might be, I think they're funny.
908
00:46:11.269 --> 00:46:12.260
I think we need more of it.
909
00:46:13.090 --> 00:46:15.369
It also connects you with people. I remember.
910
00:46:16.409 --> 00:46:20.579
the difference between when you are friends and then the
911
00:46:20.619 --> 00:46:22.599
step you take when you're friends who can bust each
912
00:46:22.639 --> 00:46:25.880
other's balls. And when one of my friend groups made
913
00:46:25.940 --> 00:46:28.960
fun of me recently about getting this fresh spray tan
914
00:46:28.980 --> 00:46:31.639
to try to look decent on zoom, it was like,
915
00:46:31.679 --> 00:46:34.599
we've crossed this chasm that I love now that we
916
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:36.760
can rag on each other. And that is a whole
917
00:46:36.820 --> 00:46:38.909
nother level of friendship than where you're just kind of
918
00:46:39.030 --> 00:46:42.389
polite and nice. That's just like the person you meet
919
00:46:42.409 --> 00:46:44.210
at a cocktail party that you won't be friends with.
920
00:46:44.250 --> 00:46:46.670
And I think that's important. And I feel like you
921
00:46:46.750 --> 00:46:50.000
bring that and give permission in a way by the
922
00:46:50.059 --> 00:46:52.960
way you speak to do that, which leads me to
923
00:46:53.460 --> 00:46:56.119
my next thought about you, Scott, which is the ability
924
00:46:56.219 --> 00:47:00.429
to be an effective communicator, both written and verbally. And
925
00:47:00.449 --> 00:47:03.070
I have some old stats, so maybe you can update them.
926
00:47:03.289 --> 00:47:05.230
I think you told me these last time, but you
927
00:47:05.269 --> 00:47:09.159
said 340 inbound speaking requests in a year You accepted
928
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:13.099
30 of them and your average rate was $ 112, 000 per speech.
929
00:47:13.139 --> 00:47:15.139
I'm guessing all of those numbers are higher now or
930
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:17.920
maybe not the accepted number because you're trying not to
931
00:47:17.960 --> 00:47:18.599
travel as much.
932
00:47:19.179 --> 00:47:22.340
But people will pay large sums of.
933
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:23.980
Money just to hear you get on a stage and
934
00:47:24.019 --> 00:47:27.380
talk and share useful slides and stats and mainly to
935
00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:31.030
hear you tell stories. I think from a leadership perspective,
936
00:47:31.130 --> 00:47:35.159
it is a vital skill for us to get good
937
00:47:35.579 --> 00:47:39.639
at speaking on a stage or speaking one-on-one or running
938
00:47:39.659 --> 00:47:42.960
your Monday morning meeting really well. And I am amazed
939
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:45.829
at how often I'll go to speak for a company
940
00:47:45.849 --> 00:47:48.909
and I usually go after the CEO or the CEO
941
00:47:49.050 --> 00:47:52.769
will introduce me. And it's evident that the CEO has
942
00:47:52.829 --> 00:47:55.500
not practiced very much and they're not that good at it,
943
00:47:55.590 --> 00:47:58.889
which blows my mind. There are some obviously exceptions, but
944
00:47:58.929 --> 00:48:01.329
there's still a lot that they're like, I have too
945
00:48:01.610 --> 00:48:04.210
much other stuff to worry about. To me, this is
946
00:48:04.230 --> 00:48:06.070
one of the most important things. So can you, I
947
00:48:06.090 --> 00:48:07.710
know some of this comes from your dad, you told
948
00:48:07.730 --> 00:48:09.289
me about last time, but can you talk about the
949
00:48:09.349 --> 00:48:13.710
importance of developing great communication skill, both written and verbally?
950
00:48:15.110 --> 00:48:17.469
If I could give my kids anyone's skill, it would
951
00:48:17.510 --> 00:48:21.980
be storytelling. Our superpower as a species is our ability
952
00:48:22.019 --> 00:48:26.739
to communicate, is verbal communication and cooperation. And when, you know,
953
00:48:26.760 --> 00:48:29.460
we used to sing songs around the campfire that they
954
00:48:29.480 --> 00:48:31.980
would tell kids, do not, this is when you plant
955
00:48:32.000 --> 00:48:34.079
the crops. Do not go over the hill. They are
956
00:48:34.139 --> 00:48:37.070
not friendly over there, whatever it might be. This is
957
00:48:37.110 --> 00:48:38.949
how you sail. This is how you fish. This is
958
00:48:38.989 --> 00:48:41.510
how our ability to communicate and tell stories is a
959
00:48:41.550 --> 00:48:45.730
means of helping young people hold on to stories. It's
960
00:48:45.769 --> 00:48:47.789
the reason why Mick Jagger gets to have sex with
961
00:48:47.829 --> 00:48:51.150
a 30-year-old ballerina is that it is wired into us.
962
00:48:51.949 --> 00:48:55.070
That storytelling is important to the species and that people
963
00:48:55.090 --> 00:48:58.590
who are great storytellers should command positions of influence and
964
00:48:58.610 --> 00:49:01.969
that they're attractive. And the easiest way to communicate that
965
00:49:01.989 --> 00:49:05.769
you're a good storyteller is to be clever and funny, right?
966
00:49:05.869 --> 00:49:09.190
I always say to guys, young men, if you can
967
00:49:09.210 --> 00:49:11.789
make a woman laugh, you can date her. She'll go
968
00:49:11.789 --> 00:49:15.050
out with you. You know, people love to laugh. And
969
00:49:15.050 --> 00:49:18.130
laughing is the kind of ultimate or the you know,
970
00:49:18.269 --> 00:49:23.820
the apex predator of storytelling. So your ability, you know,
971
00:49:23.860 --> 00:49:26.920
taking Mandarin or taking computer science, I have no idea
972
00:49:26.940 --> 00:49:28.219
if any of those things are going to pay off.
973
00:49:28.940 --> 00:49:31.199
But if you can write well, I say that I
974
00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:33.440
kind of think that's where it all starts, is your
975
00:49:33.480 --> 00:49:36.699
ability to coordinate and organize your thoughts in the written language.
976
00:49:36.820 --> 00:49:41.110
I think that is exceptionally difficult. If you can write
977
00:49:41.190 --> 00:49:48.469
an outstanding email or an article that is cogent, compelling, well-organized,
978
00:49:48.929 --> 00:49:53.780
perfect grammatically, it cements your brand with two core associations. One,
979
00:49:53.800 --> 00:49:58.300
you're smart and you're educated. And you generally speaking can't
980
00:49:58.360 --> 00:50:01.340
write well without both of those things. Not necessarily credentialed.
981
00:50:01.500 --> 00:50:03.460
My mother was a wonderful writer and she left school
982
00:50:03.480 --> 00:50:07.329
in the eighth grade. But she was educated. She learned
983
00:50:07.349 --> 00:50:11.969
it herself. She read a lot. That is ground zero,
984
00:50:12.130 --> 00:50:15.070
I think, for being an impressive person as people who
985
00:50:15.090 --> 00:50:18.730
can write well. You receive really solid emails from someone
986
00:50:18.750 --> 00:50:22.769
that just lays it out in a thoughtful, great turn
987
00:50:22.829 --> 00:50:26.309
of phrase, great analogies. And there's just no getting around it. Okay,
988
00:50:26.349 --> 00:50:29.710
this woman is smart. This woman is smart. So I
989
00:50:29.750 --> 00:50:31.829
think it starts there. And then the ability to capture
990
00:50:31.849 --> 00:50:35.469
a crowd is super important. The ability to communicate using
991
00:50:35.530 --> 00:50:39.440
visuals and data and storytelling and humor is I think that,
992
00:50:39.539 --> 00:50:41.179
I mean, that's at the end of the day to
993
00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:43.829
find your talent is a gift. I really didn't figure
994
00:50:43.849 --> 00:50:45.909
mine out till later in life, but my talent is
995
00:50:45.929 --> 00:50:49.570
storytelling and communications. And I try and do it across
996
00:50:49.610 --> 00:50:55.389
different mediums, whether it's books, presentations, talks, podcasts, television. I
997
00:50:55.429 --> 00:50:58.219
try and go cross medium. Some I'm better at than others.
998
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:00.300
I've kind of given up on TV. I've figured out
999
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:03.960
I have a face for podcasting. I'm not successful at television.
1000
00:51:03.980 --> 00:51:06.690
I've had either four or five TV shows, and they've
1001
00:51:06.730 --> 00:51:09.010
either been canceled within two or three months or canceled
1002
00:51:09.030 --> 00:51:13.010
before they even aired. So that's learning. I enjoy writing.
1003
00:51:13.409 --> 00:51:16.019
I've done well. I'm still not there yet. I've had
1004
00:51:16.079 --> 00:51:18.559
bestselling books, but I've never had like a runaway book.
1005
00:51:18.699 --> 00:51:20.519
Like Ryan, I know you've had some stuff that's done
1006
00:51:20.539 --> 00:51:22.500
really well. I've never had like the big hits. I'm
1007
00:51:22.519 --> 00:51:26.739
still trying there. You know, I've never quite, quite gotten there.
1008
00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:31.110
The place I've been really fortunate is around speaking. And
1009
00:51:31.250 --> 00:51:35.260
I purposely talk about money. I think that The zeitgeist of,
1010
00:51:36.079 --> 00:51:38.219
or the social more of not talking about money is
1011
00:51:38.300 --> 00:51:41.920
largely the incumbents want an asymmetry of information. People senior
1012
00:51:41.940 --> 00:51:44.619
in an organization know what everyone's making, and it's to
1013
00:51:44.659 --> 00:51:47.039
their advantage. Because if the mid and junior level people
1014
00:51:47.059 --> 00:51:49.119
knew what everyone was making, they might A, expect more
1015
00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:51.969
from wealthy people in society, but also say, why is
1016
00:51:52.010 --> 00:51:55.750
Bob making 40% more than me? I don't understand this.
1017
00:51:56.510 --> 00:51:59.789
And so there's this general notion that the incumbents and
1018
00:51:59.809 --> 00:52:02.690
the wealthy and corporations and senior level people in corporations
1019
00:52:03.030 --> 00:52:05.789
know more what everyone's making, but you should not talk
1020
00:52:05.829 --> 00:52:09.409
about your salary money. Anyway, so I'm very open. My
1021
00:52:09.449 --> 00:52:12.510
peak earnings here from speaking, I made 5 million in
1022
00:52:12.510 --> 00:52:15.340
2021 from speaking, but that was COVID where you could
1023
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:17.440
walk into, I could walk into my garage studio, turn
1024
00:52:17.500 --> 00:52:19.719
on Zoom and make 50,000 for an hour long speech.
1025
00:52:20.420 --> 00:52:22.760
Now it's all in person again, where I charge much
1026
00:52:22.940 --> 00:52:25.960
greater fees. And people will call me and say, how
1027
00:52:25.980 --> 00:52:27.840
do you make money speaking? I'm like, well, spend 20
1028
00:52:27.840 --> 00:52:30.719
or 30 years working your ass off, develop domain expertise.
1029
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:32.739
You don't just raise your hand and say, I want
1030
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:35.650
to get paid to speak. And also write a book
1031
00:52:35.909 --> 00:52:38.150
that is interesting and that people find interesting and then
1032
00:52:38.289 --> 00:52:43.179
really practice. Steve Jobs is a great storyteller. He's just outstanding.
1033
00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:45.119
Jensen Huang, when you hear him speak, you want to
1034
00:52:45.159 --> 00:52:49.340
buy stock. When Jeff Bezos wrote that investor letter in 1997,
1035
00:52:49.340 --> 00:52:51.440
you read the thing, you're like, okay, sell the house
1036
00:52:51.480 --> 00:52:54.300
and just buy Amazon stock. He was able to just
1037
00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:57.110
in a very cogent, sober way say, these are the
1038
00:52:57.150 --> 00:52:59.610
things we're focused on. And this is why we're going
1039
00:52:59.630 --> 00:53:01.909
to build a huge company. I don't care if you're
1040
00:53:01.929 --> 00:53:04.929
Churchill or Hitler. They were both great orators. You know,
1041
00:53:04.949 --> 00:53:07.739
they both could get a group of people to do
1042
00:53:08.320 --> 00:53:11.940
amazing and evil things because of the power of storytelling.
1043
00:53:12.559 --> 00:53:14.280
I'm going to get shit for her, including Churchill. I
1044
00:53:14.300 --> 00:53:15.000
learned the same breath.
1045
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:18.500
But the I think you've done it before. There you go.
1046
00:53:18.659 --> 00:53:23.219
Most likely. But look, you're blessed. There's some of it's genetic.
1047
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:27.070
You're tall, athletic and have a great voice. So you're
1048
00:53:27.090 --> 00:53:29.869
starting on second base with respect to storytelling.
1049
00:53:30.550 --> 00:53:31.030
But it is.
1050
00:53:31.010 --> 00:53:34.309
Something that if you're not, even if you're not genetically blessed,
1051
00:53:34.409 --> 00:53:36.610
even if you, supposedly it's the biggest fear, right? It's
1052
00:53:36.710 --> 00:53:39.760
people fear public speaking more than death. You got to
1053
00:53:39.780 --> 00:53:43.099
be competent at it. You may never be great at it.
1054
00:53:43.219 --> 00:53:45.960
Maybe it just doesn't come to you. But you have
1055
00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:50.639
to be competent. And now there's so many tools and
1056
00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:54.590
programs and speaking courses and opportunities. But I tell young people,
1057
00:53:54.610 --> 00:53:56.110
you got to lean in. You got to volunteer to
1058
00:53:56.150 --> 00:54:00.659
give presentations. You gotta, because that is, if you can,
1059
00:54:01.019 --> 00:54:02.519
if you have the gift of gab and you can
1060
00:54:02.539 --> 00:54:04.780
tell stories, you'll always make a living.
1061
00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:06.880
That's the first thing my dad told me when I
1062
00:54:06.900 --> 00:54:09.199
got a real job. be able to get up in
1063
00:54:09.219 --> 00:54:10.920
front of a group of people and speak. And I
1064
00:54:10.940 --> 00:54:14.079
know that's uncomfortable, but practice, get good at that. And
1065
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:16.239
it reminded me of something you wrote in your most
1066
00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:18.039
recent book, The Algebra of Wealth. The key is to
1067
00:54:18.079 --> 00:54:20.489
figure out what you can do that others can't or
1068
00:54:20.630 --> 00:54:22.750
are unwilling to do. A lot of people are unwilling
1069
00:54:22.789 --> 00:54:25.090
to do that. Hard work is a talent. Curiosity is
1070
00:54:25.130 --> 00:54:28.269
a talent. Patience and empathy are talents. And I feel
1071
00:54:28.289 --> 00:54:31.030
like that's one of the keys to economic security, as
1072
00:54:31.070 --> 00:54:33.349
you write about in The Algebra of Wealth, is figuring
1073
00:54:33.610 --> 00:54:36.280
out what you can do that others can't or are
1074
00:54:36.599 --> 00:54:39.699
unwilling to do. As we close out, Scott, that's one
1075
00:54:39.719 --> 00:54:42.800
of the biggest takeaways for me from The Algebra of Wealth. Again,
1076
00:54:42.880 --> 00:54:47.699
another amazing book. In your writing, I can actually hear,
1077
00:54:48.139 --> 00:54:49.929
I read it, I didn't listen to the audio. I
1078
00:54:50.260 --> 00:54:52.090
appreciate you sending me an early copy, but I could
1079
00:54:52.269 --> 00:54:55.449
hear your voice. So I almost feel like maybe there
1080
00:54:55.469 --> 00:54:58.630
are transcriptions from the podcast, literally that show up with
1081
00:54:58.710 --> 00:55:01.250
minor editing in the book. But that's one of the
1082
00:55:01.570 --> 00:55:04.420
things of when it comes to creating wealth and creating
1083
00:55:04.619 --> 00:55:06.940
economic security is overall figuring out what you can do
1084
00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.380
that others can't or are unwilling to do. Can you
1085
00:55:09.760 --> 00:55:12.300
give me the general thesis and expand from that?
1086
00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:15.199
Yeah, the spine of the book is an equation for
1087
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:20.260
building wealth. And it's one, I call it focus. You
1088
00:55:20.300 --> 00:55:22.349
could also call it mastery. And I think a lot
1089
00:55:22.389 --> 00:55:25.130
of young people make the mistake of believing they should
1090
00:55:25.170 --> 00:55:29.050
follow their passion. And I don't want to kill anyone's dream.
1091
00:55:29.349 --> 00:55:31.469
But what I would say is find your talent. And
1092
00:55:31.510 --> 00:55:34.530
that is, Try and find something that if you invested
1093
00:55:34.550 --> 00:55:38.789
the requisite 10,000 hours, grit, perseverance, you could be an
1094
00:55:38.929 --> 00:55:41.690
artisan or a master in the top 10%, if not
1095
00:55:41.730 --> 00:55:44.860
the top 1%. And then try and layer it over
1096
00:55:44.889 --> 00:55:48.000
an industry where there's a 90 plus percent employment rate,
1097
00:55:48.059 --> 00:55:52.539
which is 99% of industries. Sports, I mean, the industry
1098
00:55:52.579 --> 00:55:55.980
you were in, you were probably in the top 0.1%,
1099
00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:58.460
but the employment rate in the NFL of all football
1100
00:55:58.500 --> 00:56:03.719
players is probably 0.01%. So you made it to 99.9,
1101
00:56:03.719 --> 00:56:06.300
but unless you made it to 99.99, you weren't going.
1102
00:56:06.219 --> 00:56:06.840
To make a living.
1103
00:56:07.900 --> 00:56:09.980
And I think you have to have an honest conversation around,
1104
00:56:10.019 --> 00:56:15.340
all right, I mean, if in any industry, almost any industry,
1105
00:56:15.460 --> 00:56:17.670
you got to the same level of excellence you did
1106
00:56:17.690 --> 00:56:22.070
in football, you'd make millions of dollars. But in football,
1107
00:56:22.150 --> 00:56:24.650
you make it to just 99.9 and you get cut
1108
00:56:24.670 --> 00:56:27.860
your sophomore year or you get benched. So have a
1109
00:56:27.900 --> 00:56:30.869
sober conversation around the industry. And unfortunately, some of the
1110
00:56:30.909 --> 00:56:34.369
passion fields, people mistake for hobbies. And it's like, my
1111
00:56:34.409 --> 00:56:38.110
passion is to be a DJ. Well, okay, you have
1112
00:56:38.150 --> 00:56:40.829
to be, you have to be again in the top 0.1
1113
00:56:40.829 --> 00:56:44.360
or 0.01%. Because here's the thing, it may not sound
1114
00:56:44.380 --> 00:56:46.300
like fun to be a tax lawyer, but if you're
1115
00:56:46.320 --> 00:56:50.409
in the top 10% of tax lawyers... you're most likely
1116
00:56:50.449 --> 00:56:52.829
going to have a really nice house, be able to
1117
00:56:52.869 --> 00:56:54.489
take care of your kids, be able to take care
1118
00:56:54.510 --> 00:56:58.829
of your parents, have camaraderie, respect, relevance, money to do
1119
00:56:58.949 --> 00:57:01.920
really cool things, maybe even at some point fly private,
1120
00:57:01.980 --> 00:57:05.380
probably have a larger selection set of mates than you deserve.
1121
00:57:05.920 --> 00:57:09.239
And all of those things will make you passionate about
1122
00:57:09.300 --> 00:57:12.699
whatever it is. So the first thing is focus and mastery.
1123
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:16.750
The next thing is I call it stoicism. It's really
1124
00:57:16.809 --> 00:57:20.239
about The basic notion of Morgan Housel says this, and
1125
00:57:20.380 --> 00:57:22.179
I love the way Morgan phrases stuff. No one's thinking
1126
00:57:22.199 --> 00:57:24.619
about your shit as much as you are. Try from
1127
00:57:24.659 --> 00:57:28.260
a young age to develop a savings muscle and gamify
1128
00:57:28.369 --> 00:57:30.630
saving money. When I was in college, if I didn't
1129
00:57:30.670 --> 00:57:33.210
get $ 3, 300 together over the summer, I wasn't going back
1130
00:57:33.250 --> 00:57:36.030
to school. So we used to gamify it, me and
1131
00:57:36.050 --> 00:57:37.969
the other five kids in the fraternity who didn't have
1132
00:57:37.989 --> 00:57:40.070
a lot of money. We would go on a whiteboard
1133
00:57:40.110 --> 00:57:41.469
every day and talk about how much money we spent
1134
00:57:41.510 --> 00:57:43.809
that day. That summer, summer of 84, I spent $ 73
1135
00:57:43.750 --> 00:57:48.460
a week total on everything, living, rent, I lived on
1136
00:57:48.500 --> 00:57:51.960
Top Ramen, bananas, and milk. And my big treat every
1137
00:57:52.300 --> 00:57:54.389
Sunday night, I was never the athlete you are, but
1138
00:57:54.409 --> 00:57:56.489
I rode on the crew team. We'd get the coupon
1139
00:57:56.530 --> 00:57:58.510
for $ 3. 99, all you can eat at Sizzler. And we
1140
00:57:58.530 --> 00:58:01.110
used to go in and literally 32 guys from the
1141
00:58:01.150 --> 00:58:04.429
crew team clear out the place. But I developed a
1142
00:58:04.469 --> 00:58:07.570
savings muscle early. I lost it for about 20 years
1143
00:58:07.590 --> 00:58:08.730
because I thought it was going to be such a
1144
00:58:08.789 --> 00:58:12.090
baller that I started spending a lot of money. But trying,
1145
00:58:12.230 --> 00:58:13.909
I mean, it's pretty basic. Wealth isn't about how much
1146
00:58:13.969 --> 00:58:17.050
money you make. It's about how much you save. And
1147
00:58:17.070 --> 00:58:20.730
there are Hundreds of thousands of civil servants that never
1148
00:58:20.789 --> 00:58:22.489
make more than eighty or ninety thousand dollars a year
1149
00:58:22.510 --> 00:58:24.670
But because of four savings plans and discipline they end
1150
00:58:24.710 --> 00:58:27.360
up millionaires when they die You know that adage that
1151
00:58:27.449 --> 00:58:29.940
you become the sum or the average of all the
1152
00:58:30.019 --> 00:58:33.280
five your five closest friends That's true in terms of
1153
00:58:33.360 --> 00:58:36.920
politics weight Income, but it's not true in terms of
1154
00:58:37.099 --> 00:58:40.159
wealth They'll make the same amount of money, but some
1155
00:58:40.219 --> 00:58:42.059
end up in a much better place than others so
1156
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:45.219
there's a series of savings behaviors and that if you
1157
00:58:45.260 --> 00:58:47.090
start when you're young and you can deploy just a
1158
00:58:47.179 --> 00:58:49.510
little bit of capital and create that army that will
1159
00:58:49.530 --> 00:58:53.630
grow on itself, the whole notion of compounding, letting time,
1160
00:58:53.670 --> 00:58:55.730
which is the next part of the equation, take over.
1161
00:58:56.329 --> 00:58:58.610
Our flaw in our species is we don't realize how
1162
00:58:59.150 --> 00:59:01.010
fast time is going to go. The majority just haven't
1163
00:59:01.030 --> 00:59:04.750
lived past 35. So it's almost impossible to imagine that
1164
00:59:04.769 --> 00:59:06.469
you're going to be alive in 30 or 40 years,
1165
00:59:06.530 --> 00:59:09.579
but you are. And even just investing in the S
1166
00:59:09.579 --> 00:59:14.019
& P SPY index funds that have grown 11% the
1167
00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:16.239
last 15 years and 9% since the beginning of the
1168
00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:19.219
S & P, you think, well, that sucks. But 11%
1169
00:59:19.219 --> 00:59:21.869
a year means that in 21 years, you got eight
1170
00:59:21.909 --> 00:59:26.070
times your money. And the 21 years sounds unfathomable at
1171
00:59:26.110 --> 00:59:28.909
the age of 25. But when you get to 46,
1172
00:59:28.909 --> 00:59:32.409
you go, Jesus Christ, that went fast. So try and
1173
00:59:32.670 --> 00:59:35.119
tap into or try and ignore or overcome the flaw
1174
00:59:35.139 --> 00:59:38.340
in the species and appreciate just how fast time is
1175
00:59:38.380 --> 00:59:41.239
going to go. And if you master something, you make
1176
00:59:41.280 --> 00:59:43.019
more money than you spend. You live a little bit
1177
00:59:43.059 --> 00:59:45.210
like a stoic. You develop a savings muscle and you
1178
00:59:45.230 --> 00:59:47.710
let time take over. You're going to wake up with
1179
00:59:47.730 --> 00:59:51.510
a lot more money than you'd anticipated. And then finally, diversification.
1180
00:59:51.530 --> 00:59:53.829
This is where I really screwed up. I always went
1181
00:59:54.030 --> 00:59:56.440
all in. on my companies, even when I had a
1182
00:59:56.460 --> 00:59:58.380
chance to take some money off the table and put
1183
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.480
it in different things. Diversification is your Kevlar. You can
1184
01:00:01.500 --> 01:00:03.800
get shot in the chest and have a really bad
1185
01:00:03.840 --> 01:00:06.190
investment or have a company go out of business. But
1186
01:00:06.210 --> 01:00:08.809
if you're diversified and really make an effort to put
1187
01:00:08.889 --> 01:00:12.010
money in different things that aren't correlated, which isn't easy,
1188
01:00:13.090 --> 01:00:16.150
it hurts, but it's not fatal. And I was always 120, 130.
1189
01:00:16.119 --> 01:00:20.079
When I started my first company, Profit I was I
1190
01:00:20.099 --> 01:00:21.780
was putting more money and even when I was offered
1191
01:00:21.800 --> 01:00:23.940
a chance to buy or take investors No, no double
1192
01:00:23.980 --> 01:00:26.639
down double down double that red envelope goes public stock
1193
01:00:26.659 --> 01:00:29.900
goes down borrow money to buy more stock and the
1194
01:00:29.940 --> 01:00:32.539
media loves the story of Steve Ballmer saying to Goldman
1195
01:00:32.579 --> 01:00:34.840
Sachs How much money can I borrow borrows and buys
1196
01:00:34.860 --> 01:00:38.019
more Microsoft stock or Mark Zuckerberg turning down 20 billion dollars?
1197
01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:41.539
Assume you are not assume you are not Mark Zuckerberg
1198
01:00:42.099 --> 01:00:43.960
as soon as you can once you have some capital
1199
01:00:43.980 --> 01:00:46.679
start diversifying because the beautiful thing about capitalism in the
1200
01:00:46.719 --> 01:00:49.659
market is Is it because of population growth and gains
1201
01:00:49.699 --> 01:00:52.500
in productivity? As a whole, the market is up and
1202
01:00:52.519 --> 01:00:54.360
to the right. You don't need to be a hero.
1203
01:00:54.409 --> 01:00:56.590
You don't need to find the needle in the haystack.
1204
01:00:56.630 --> 01:00:59.269
Buy the whole haystack. So the sum of the book
1205
01:00:59.329 --> 01:01:01.289
is kind of advice to my young self, and it's
1206
01:01:01.329 --> 01:01:04.230
basically the following. I absolutely know how to get you rich.
1207
01:01:04.550 --> 01:01:06.760
That's the good news. The bad news is the answer
1208
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:09.739
is slowly. But we can get you there with a
1209
01:01:09.820 --> 01:01:15.139
series of fairly straightforward, Not easy, but understandable behaviors. And
1210
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:16.969
my mistake all the time was I thought, and I
1211
01:01:16.989 --> 01:01:20.369
had signals along the way, I'm smart, I'm talented, I'm lucky.
1212
01:01:20.750 --> 01:01:22.650
At some point, I'm going to get that 10, that 50,
1213
01:01:22.630 --> 01:01:26.789
that $ 100 million windfall. And let's hope that happens. But
1214
01:01:26.860 --> 01:01:29.280
just in case it doesn't, let's have a plan B
1215
01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:32.219
that says by the time I'm 50 or 60, I'm
1216
01:01:32.260 --> 01:01:35.699
going to be financially secure. And there is a series
1217
01:01:35.739 --> 01:01:39.070
of basic behaviors and strategies that will get you there.
1218
01:01:40.059 --> 01:01:40.820
It's an amazing book.
1219
01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:44.380
It's called The Algebra of Wealth, A Simple Formula for
1220
01:01:44.440 --> 01:01:48.659
Financial Security. It's like your other books, funny, really well-written,
1221
01:01:48.909 --> 01:01:51.389
and no wasted space. I work with Jim Levine as
1222
01:01:51.429 --> 01:01:53.690
well as a book agent. So I know Jim is
1223
01:01:53.730 --> 01:01:57.170
helpful with saying, get rid of that fluff. And so
1224
01:01:57.489 --> 01:02:00.070
it's a great partner to have to say, let's make
1225
01:02:00.110 --> 01:02:03.019
this the fewest number of words possible. And I feel
1226
01:02:03.039 --> 01:02:05.199
like that's what the algebra of wealth is. And I highly,
1227
01:02:05.239 --> 01:02:08.039
highly recommend people read it. Scott, you're a role model
1228
01:02:08.059 --> 01:02:09.780
and a mentor for me. I know you don't fully
1229
01:02:09.840 --> 01:02:11.619
realize that and you have millions of people who are,
1230
01:02:11.679 --> 01:02:14.849
but I just want to publicly say thank you for
1231
01:02:14.889 --> 01:02:16.369
all that you do. Every time I see one of
1232
01:02:16.389 --> 01:02:18.429
your new podcasts pop up, I get excited. I know
1233
01:02:18.449 --> 01:02:20.530
when they are coming out, but I'm still excited. So
1234
01:02:20.909 --> 01:02:23.010
I'm grateful for you, man. And I would love to
1235
01:02:23.050 --> 01:02:25.550
continue our dialogue as we both progress.
1236
01:02:25.769 --> 01:02:27.130
I mean, that's right. I mean, it's a lot coming
1237
01:02:27.150 --> 01:02:29.929
from you. Thanks very much. You're being very generous and
1238
01:02:30.650 --> 01:02:31.679
congrats on your success.
1239
01:02:32.360 --> 01:02:33.340
Thank you, man. We'll talk soon.
1240
01:02:33.989 --> 01:02:40.280
Okay. It is the end of the podcast club. Thank
1241
01:02:40.320 --> 01:02:42.679
you for being a member of the end of the
1242
01:02:42.719 --> 01:02:45.780
podcast club. If you are, send me a note. Ryan
1243
01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:48.780
at learningleader.com. Let me know what you learned from this
1244
01:02:48.860 --> 01:02:52.460
great conversation with one of my favorites, Scott Galloway. A
1245
01:02:52.500 --> 01:02:56.239
few takeaways from my notes. How to build wealth.
1246
01:02:56.300 --> 01:02:57.059
The four ways.
1247
01:02:57.420 --> 01:03:02.480
Focus, which is mastery. Find your talent. Then stoicism. This
1248
01:03:02.539 --> 01:03:04.920
is about saving more than you spend.
1249
01:03:05.039 --> 01:03:05.500
Reflect.
1250
01:03:05.659 --> 01:03:07.239
Pause. We need some silence.
1251
01:03:07.500 --> 01:03:08.300
Then time.
1252
01:03:09.940 --> 01:03:12.320
The way to get rich? Slowly.
1253
01:03:12.340 --> 01:03:16.030
In 21 years with your money and a low-cost index fund,
1254
01:03:16.090 --> 01:03:18.909
you will earn eight times your money.
1255
01:03:18.949 --> 01:03:19.489
It takes time.
1256
01:03:19.530 --> 01:03:23.809
Then diversification. This is your Kevlar. Once you earn some money,
1257
01:03:23.909 --> 01:03:27.969
assume you are not Steve Ballmer or Mark Zuckerberg who
1258
01:03:28.070 --> 01:03:31.409
only went all in on one thing. use a variety
1259
01:03:31.550 --> 01:03:35.909
of investment vehicles going all in, is usually not going
1260
01:03:35.949 --> 01:03:38.170
to be the best choice for most of us. Then,
1261
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:43.420
one of the key indicators of long-term success is your, quote,
1262
01:03:43.559 --> 01:03:47.500
willingness to endure rejection. Whether this is walking up to
1263
01:03:47.559 --> 01:03:50.570
a stranger at the Raleigh Hotel, as Scott did to
1264
01:03:50.610 --> 01:03:53.639
his future wife, or cold calling in a sales job
1265
01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:56.510
like I had, or asking people to be on your podcast,
1266
01:03:56.550 --> 01:03:59.110
which I've done and currently do. If you are not
1267
01:03:59.269 --> 01:04:03.409
willing to endure rejection, you are probably going to struggle.
1268
01:04:03.429 --> 01:04:07.530
And then I love the idea of creating surplus value.
1269
01:04:08.110 --> 01:04:11.409
What can we do to give more than we take?
1270
01:04:11.449 --> 01:04:13.449
And as Scott said, the key is to figure out
1271
01:04:13.530 --> 01:04:16.179
what you can do that others can't or are not
1272
01:04:16.599 --> 01:04:20.099
willing to do. Hard work is a talent. Curiosity is
1273
01:04:20.139 --> 01:04:24.070
a talent. Patience is And empathy are talents. What can
1274
01:04:24.130 --> 01:04:27.369
you do that others can't or are not willing to?
1275
01:04:28.289 --> 01:04:30.030
Once again, I would say thank you so much for
1276
01:04:30.090 --> 01:04:32.719
continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, hey,
1277
01:04:32.760 --> 01:04:35.340
you should listen to this episode of The Learning Leader
1278
01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.920
Show with Scott Galloway. I think it will help you
1279
01:04:37.960 --> 01:04:40.320
become a more effective leader. And because you continue to
1280
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:43.199
do that and you also go to Spotify or Apple
1281
01:04:43.239 --> 01:04:46.289
Podcasts and you subscribe to the show and you rate it,
1282
01:04:46.610 --> 01:04:49.130
hopefully five stars, and you write a thoughtful review, and
1283
01:04:49.170 --> 01:04:52.610
by doing all of that, you are giving me the
1284
01:04:52.730 --> 01:04:55.150
opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis.
1285
01:04:55.389 --> 01:04:59.119
And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so,
1286
01:04:59.500 --> 01:04:59.820
so much.
1287
01:04:59.860 --> 01:05:00.789
Talk to you soon. Can't wait.