090: Seth Mattison – Generational Shifts: Why Some Millennials Fail

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Instead of going in and trying to change something ginormous,
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try to get one small win first. Find one small
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little thing, one small idea that you can get implemented,
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one small change. Go for something small so that you
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can earn some credibility. The other major thing you have
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to do is you have to get a champion. You
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find one champion inside the organization who will support you
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in the process of you pulling out your new idea.
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So if I can get a champion who's one of
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the senior executives or someone that people look up to
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and I know that he or she will stick up
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for me and support me in my hope of pulling
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this new idea off. Now I'm getting somewhere. I've got
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a support champion. I pull off one small idea. I
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get some credibility. Now I have the right to go
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in and talk about maybe pulling something bigger off. But
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there's a process through it. I just see so many
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young people who they get frustrated. They're like, I've got
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all these great ideas and nobody listens to me. I
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can't pull anything off. It's like you have to be
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intentional about it, gang. And if you do that, you're
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going to see some serious results.
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Are leaders born or are they made? Our host, Ryan Hawk,
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believes that leaders can be made through determined, focused work
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on learning the art and science behind the makeup of
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other successful leaders. Now it's time to inhale knowledge and
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exhale success. You're listening to The Learning Leader Show with
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Ryan Hawk.
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Hey, and welcome to The Learning Leader Show. I am
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Ryan Hawk. So excited for tonight's featured leader. And first,
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I want to say thank you for joining me here.
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I really appreciate the phenomenal feedback I've received over the
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last few weeks regarding some of our episodes. It means
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so much to me to receive the feedback on my website, learningleader.com,
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or emailing me, ryanhawk12 at gmail.com. Thank you so much
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for that. And please continue to send the feedback because
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I love it. On tonight's show with the featured leader,
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Seth Madison, he's an internationally renowned expert on workforce trends
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and generational dynamics. He's the founder of Future Sight Labs.
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He advises many of the world's leading brands and organizations
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on the key shifts happening around talent management, change, innovation, leadership,
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and the future of work. And recently he was named
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President to the editor's picks for favorite speakers by MeetingsNet.
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Love this conversation with Seth.
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I could list off 15 different areas that I thought
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were phenomenal, but I'll name just a couple. How the
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greatest leaders refuse to bend. They refuse to let their
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dreams die. And Seth has some great stories discussing this.
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And then another specific incredible story about the six-month.
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Process of of many cold.
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Calls Seth made in order just to get coffee with
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somebody who he wanted to be his mentor and the
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value that he worked to bring to him as well
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as what he needed to do in order just to
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live during this time where he's making a very small
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amount of money while working for his mentor. I was
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inspired when Seth was telling his story.
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I know you will be too.
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And then why you should never, ever use the phrase,
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can I pick your brains? when reaching out to a mentor.
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And I think you'll find that part both humorous as
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well as informative. Ladies and gentlemen, without further ado, it's
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Seth Madison. Seth, so excited to have you here on
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the Learning Leader Show, man. I want to get this
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one kicked off with some oomph to it. So I
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got a quick question to get us going, and that's
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around People who have sustained excellence over an extended period
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of time. You are certainly one of those guys, and
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you've spent a lot of time around others who have
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sustained excellence over an extended period of time. What would
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you say are some of the common characteristics those people
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all seem to share?
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Well, first of all, Ryan, thanks for having me. I've
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been looking forward to this. Great question. I'm honored to
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be thrown into that category. I mean, I think my
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immediate reaction was like, well, I don't know that I
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exactly fit that mold yet. But there's definitely, I'd say,
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three to four key characteristics that kind of come to
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mind that I see in other people who have sustained
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success and that I want to emulate and I try to.
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I try to develop, foster, and grow that within myself.
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And I think first and foremost, the first thing that
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comes to mind is resiliency. There are people who are
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incredibly resilient because no matter what you're going to face
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through your journey, you're going to face some serious roadblocks.
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Some serious dark valleys where whether the money runs out,
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everyone thinks your idea is stupid or you personally, you're
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just like– you started out with this dream or this
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vision and then all of a sudden you're in it
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and you're like, I have no idea if this thing
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is going to work. I mean is this– Is this
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even real? You're listening to the marketplace. You're listening to
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the naysayers. And I just look at the people who
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were like they refused to bend. I mean they're making
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small changes. They're making the quote-unquote pivots when they need.
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But they refused to let the dream die. And they
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keep showing up and they keep grinding. They're incredibly resilient.
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And to be honest, from a generational perspective, which is
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some of the work that I'm focusing on, generational dynamics,
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workforce trends. Now, that's one of the characteristics that I
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think you see kind of coming up in the next
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generation where they are incredibly smart, incredibly innovative, fast, quick people.
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But sometimes I wonder and I see some of the
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lacking around resiliency because they haven't necessarily taken a lot
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of lumps. They've been saved a lot or they haven't
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heard no or they haven't heard, you know what, that's
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a stupid idea because everything has been great for them.
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And you've got to be prepared and have the armor
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put on to say, first and foremost, if you're going
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to be successful, you're going to be incredibly resilient. So
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resiliency is number one. Most of the people that I've
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seen that have been incredibly successful that I'm surrounding myself with,
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of course, there's people who maybe fall out of this category,
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but the people I want to surround myself with who
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have been successful are incredibly generous. These are people who
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don't keep score. They show up into every single relationship
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and they say– they look to see how they can
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add value. They're not keeping score and they're finding ways
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to pour themselves into those around them. And it's just
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almost universal I see. And I've been on the receiving
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end of that from people that I've looked up to
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who have given to me and have been generous before
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they ever knew I would– without the thought of I'm
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going to be able to pay them back someday. In
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whatever capacity, not necessarily financially or with money, but relationships, ideas, inspiration,
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et cetera. So number one, resilient. Number two, incredibly generous.
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They don't keep score. And I think the other one
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that comes to mind is, it builds off the resiliency
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a little bit, but it is this idea of discipline. Right.
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They have the ability every single day to get themselves
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into such a state that they can show up and
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they can hit the desk because, you know, we all,
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what do people say? You know, we all have the
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same 24 hours. What are you doing with yours? And
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the truth is it takes fricking discipline. It's hard. It's
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hard at the end of the day, if you're working
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in a career and you're trying to launch something at night,
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or you are an entrepreneur and it never really shuts off.
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You know, especially if you've got a significant other or kids,
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you sit down, you have dinner, you're trying to hang
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out a little bit. And how easy is it to be,
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you know, flip on Netflix and watch the 15th episode
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of your favorite series instead of like going into the office,
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sitting down at the desk and being like, OK, I
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got to crank out, you know, a thousand words or
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I got a hammer on this particular project and I don't.
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feel like doing it right now and the trick is
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the people who've been the most successful it's like they
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don't do things just when it feels good or when
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they want to do it they just do it every
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single day and it doesn't matter what your what your
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your gift your trade your you know your thing you're
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trying to bring into the world if you're an athlete
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etc the same thing same thing applies. And I think
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a little bit, you know, not only seeing that in
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people that I highly respect that I saw have success
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over a long period of time, but I grew up
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on a fourth generation farm, farming community. It was like,
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first and foremost, principles that were drilled into my head was,
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you know, it doesn't matter if you're the smartest, if
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you're the fastest, if you're the strongest, but if you
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show up and you work your tail off every single day, pig-headed,
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didn't discipline, you can blow people's doors off. Anything is
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possible then. So resiliency, generous, and disciplined, I think are
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three things that really jump out at me on that front.
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I love it, man. This is just a phenomenal answer.
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Now, when it comes to, you mentioned there briefly, Seth,
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that from a generational perspective, and I think this is
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a kind of a dicey topic because as people progress
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in age, we all, as we get older and You know,
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we probably heard it when we were a little bit
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younger that the people who came before us said that
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we didn't work as hard or we weren't as disciplined
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as them. So do you think part of this is
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our age or is this a legit thing where there's
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not enough adversity in the lives of the millennial generation?
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Because I always go back and forth and I'm right
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on the verge, depending on when you say a millennial
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being in like my early 30s.
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Like what age? What is that? What's there?
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Or do you think there's something specific you can point
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to to say, you know what, no, I'm telling you,
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it's real. The adversity is not there. They have not
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faced it enough to be able to get their lumps,
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get knocked down, so to speak, so that they have
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to get themselves back up.
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Listen, it's a great question. I've been studying generational shifts
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and dynamics for a decade. One of the things people
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will often say is, you know, and you kind of
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alluded to it, but not totally of just people will think, well,
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you know, as we get older, don't we all just
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become more of the same? It's like youth is youth
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and eventually you grow out of it. And the truth
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is the theory, the study of generational dynamics, what we're
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looking at is now researchers have found that the events
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and conditions that take place during a group's formative years, right?
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And our formative years are roughly that period of time
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between 14 and roughly 24. The events and conditions that
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take place during that period of time have a tremendous
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lasting impact in shaping who they are as they get older.
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And there are some common themes that show up when
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we look at these generations, right? So you've got baby
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boomers born between 1946 and 1964. Generation Xers born from
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65 to 79. Millennials, also known as Gen Y, born
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between 1980 and 1995. I think you and I both
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fall in kind of the front end of that generation.
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And then the next new generation that is being called
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a number of things, the most common term being thrown
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around is Generation Z, born from 96 to 2010. So
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to your question around this, you know, it's multilayered, you know,
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whether it's work ethic, resiliency, et cetera. You're right. Past
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generations have always looked at youth and said they're not
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as tough. They didn't have to go through as much suffering.
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A lot of times it's paying dues. They didn't have
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to pay their dues the same extent. There's some truth
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to that. However, one of the transformational shifts that we've
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seen play out between the millennials and now this next
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generation with Generation Z is that almost universally there was
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a parenting shift that took place. For most baby boomers
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and extras, when you ask them about their parents, they
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will say, a pretty common story. They'll say something to
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the effect of, you know what, I love my mother
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or father. I love that man or woman if they
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pass away. But let me tell you something. It was
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a my way or the highway type world with that
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man or that woman. There was never debate. There was
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never discussion. We got thrown in the back of the
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station wagon, taken wherever that dude wanted to go, period.
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End of story, right? Number one. Number two, for most
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boomers and Xers and earlier generations, when they turned 18,
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their parents met them at the front door and it
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was like, we love you, we're proud of you, but
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hit the bricks, pal. You're on your own, right? And
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they were shoved out into the world. Now, as you
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move forward … Baby boomers and extras now become parents,
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their children, millennials and Generation Z. What's the thought process there?
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We grew up in an environment where they're like, listen,
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that's how my parents were. But when I had children,
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baby boomers and extras saying when I had kids, I
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at least wanted it to be a little bit of
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a conversation, a little bit of a debate. We're going
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to work through things together as a family. It's not
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going to just be a my way or the highway.
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We're going to sit down, we'll work through it together.
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At the end of the day, I still have the
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final say, but we'll do it together. So you've got
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a whole generation of youth that have been coming of age,
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working through things together as a family unit. I mean,
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I jokingly say in my programs, it's like we've got
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generations who have been the chief technology officer in their
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home since they were eight years old. They've been driving
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decisions with mom and dad. And the other thing that
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has happened is And it's not a knock on boomers
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and extras. I can totally relate to it. It's that
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desire to not want to see your children suffer, to
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protect them from pain, to protect them from the pain
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and suffering that many times they had to go through, right?
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Whether that's, you know what, when you go off to college,
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you know what? you're off the financial plan. You're on
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your own. And if you call me and tell me
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that you got macaroni and cheese and ramen noodles left,
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like I'm not sending, you don't have my credit card
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and I'm not sending you money and you're going to
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have to take your lumps. they're stepping in and saying,
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I don't want Jessica to have to suffer like that.
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I don't want Tony to have to. I want to
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make sure they have it easier than what we had.
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That's a common theme. I want them to have it easier.
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The other thing that was taken away is because millennials
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and Gen Z, because we've been involved in so many
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organized activities, organized sports, music, dance, recitals, you name it, uh,
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science projects, a couple of things have happened. One, that
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whole idea of, you know, after work, you go and
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get a job, right? You started for boomers and extras.
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You started working at 16, 17, 18 years of age,
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meaning you had to show up somewhere you were responsible.
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And if you didn't, there were consequences for that work
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has been taken away for a lot of these people.
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And again, mom and dad are like, it's not that
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they're trying to not set their kids up for success,
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but they're saying, ah, they're in a lot of activities.
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I want us to be able to go on a
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family vacation in the summertime. I don't want Tony to
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have to work. I don't want Jessica to have to work.
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I'll just give them money. It's fine. So what happens?
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You fast forward and now you have a 23 or
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a 24-year-old who shows up and they've never worked before.
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They never had to show up at 9 o'clock. And
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mom and dad have stepped in and saved them from
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some of the consequences from having to go through some
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of the pain. And what I see and hear over
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and over and over again– and listen, some of it
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we have to take with a grain of salt. But
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at some point, there's some truth there to be seen.
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where I've got leaders and HR managers and directors who say,
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you know, we give some of this next generation some
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tough feedback and they fold. It's as if they've never
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been told they've had a bad idea before or they've
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never faced some tough consequences before and they fold up
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shop and they say, this place isn't for me. I'm
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not going to be able to be successful here. This
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person doesn't like me. It's not going to work out.
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They fold shop and they're out. Now, You could say, well,
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we've also got a wave of new entrepreneurs that are
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coming up as well because the barriers to entry have
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been lowered. And you've got a whole tech generation that
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are out there on the streets learning to raise money,
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getting doors slammed in their face. That's a smaller group, right?
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You're a product of your environment. The same way you
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and I, we played college football. Guess what? Some of
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our experience is shaped us to have a little bit
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more resiliency than someone that didn't have that. But on
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the whole, Ryan, over and over again, we hear this
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come up. And what I'm saying is instead of blaming
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or complaining about it, I'm saying, how do we start
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to train? How do you recruit for resiliency? How do
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you train for some of the– can you teach work
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ethic to someone who shows up or do you need
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to hire it? What would be some of the characteristics
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you would look for? I've got some clients who have
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flat out stopped recruiting out of the Ivy League schools
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because they're like it just– sometimes we feel like it
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brings with it a certain level of privilege that they
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haven't had to go through some of the tough stuff.
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We can recruit out of the Midwest and we'll get
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someone who shows up and they're grateful for the opportunity
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and they're willing to take some lumps. It's a broad-based statement,
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but it's showing up enough that I think we have
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to have a conversation about it.
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Man, this is a really interesting topic because I was
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going to ask you that what was going through my
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mind was, I think there's a lot of accuracy in
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what you're saying, especially when, I mean, as a dad,
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I find myself in those situations where, yeah, I don't
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want to it's painful as a parent to see your
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child fail. I spoke with a great leader on a
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previous episode, Jessica Leahy, and she wrote a phenomenal book
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called The Gift of Failure, where we talk about the
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one brief example. If your kid leaves their science project
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on the kitchen table and you can easily take it
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to school and help them out so that they get
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the necessary grade that they feel they deserve because they
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finished it and it's great, But the fact that they
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forgot it means that you should let them suffer the
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consequences of forgetting that so that they learn. And that's
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just a small example, but it kind of illustrates the point.
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It illustrates the point of, of, as you put it,
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taking the lumps. Because I firmly, you know, we can
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talk sports now since we both play college football. You know,
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as a young kid, and I've talked about this before
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with other guests, my parents had me and my younger
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brother play up a level in sports. Meaning if you're
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in second grade, you play with the third grade team
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and up and up and up as.
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We kept going.
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And especially for me as a guy who was undersized
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for my own age growing up. I didn't really hit
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the growth spurt until later on. There's some major lumps,
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and there's not really anyone there to pick you up.
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You've got to pick yourself back up, especially playing football,
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which is a really physical sport. And so I think
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that's where that resiliency was built. That's where I learned
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a lot about failure. Now, with that said, I question
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if I was good enough, but that's okay. I think
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it's okay every once in a while to have those
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doubts because you're going to have doubts in everything you
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do in your life. It's even better than when you
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see that you've been able to achieve levels of success
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after having some pretty incredible doubts earlier in your life
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about really anything that you're going to do.
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So you bring up a good point. So can you,
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as parents, as leaders, can you help prepare and coach
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and mentor mental resiliency without also at the same time
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saving someone from some of those difficulties that they're going
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to go through? Right? to prepare you to face the
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dark black forest, the valley, the dip that you're going
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to have to go through. And no, I'm not going
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to be there to save you. And it does go
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back to mom and dad. And because you're a parent,
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you know this, of it's so difficult to not want
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to step in and save. And I just think across
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the board, and it's not a knock on current parents
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and baby boomers as parents, but if you sit down
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and you ask them in one-on-one conversations, and I've had
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thousands of one-on-one conversations with these people. And I say
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to them, you know, whether it, are you as tough
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on your kids as your parents are, were on you,
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or would your dad have ever swooped in and whether
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it was help you get the job, help you coach
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you up on the interview, make, call your boss for you.
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Like at some point we, you know, we hate those stereotypes,
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but at some point you have to take notice of like,
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you know, were bosses getting called before by, by, you know, employees,
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parents that didn't exist. You had to face that. So
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I don't want to, there's a million great things about
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millennials and the next generation Gen Z that's coming up.
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This is not about harping on them, but it's a
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specific trend that I'm watching play out. And, and I
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know you're seeing it. And as a member of this generation,
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I just think it's worth a conversation. It's worth talking
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about that idea of resiliency.
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Let's get into it, Seth, for what you do for
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a living. Normally, we'd have kind of a brief bio
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of you, but we got into such good, deep stuff
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instantly that we just kept going. But talk to me
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about what you do currently and how you've gotten to
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this point.
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So I am writing, speaking, and consulting on workplace trends,
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generational shifts, kind of the future of work. What's coming next?
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How do we prepare as leaders, as individual contributors to
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kind of navigate this new world of work? I started
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really with a specific focus and deep research into generational shifts,
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generational transformations. And my aha in that work was in
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that when we study the generations, particularly when you study youth,
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it really gives you a pretty good indication as to
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what is going to be coming next, whether it's in
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the world of work, entertainment, the marketplace, et cetera. It's
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kind of a future indicator. And so I made a
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transformation out of, instead of being kind of laser focused
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and narrowed into the generational space, I kind of opened
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it up into more broader future of work workplace trends.
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In terms of how I got into this, the cliff notes,
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the 10,000 view story on that is, I go back
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to what I mentioned earlier, is I grew up on
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a fourth generation farm in southern Minnesota, right? So I
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grew up literally working alongside my great-grandfather and grandfather, father.
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My great-grandfather was born in 1910. So this is a
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man who was around to see the impacts of everything
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from World War I, stock market crash, Great Depression, World
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War II, civil rights, Vietnam, just all of it. And
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it was an unbelievable opportunity to kind of come of
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age around three generations of storytellers. And it just kind
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of was intuitive. I was unconsciously aware of these things.
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I didn't even know what I was really becoming intuitive about.
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It just was the world I lived in of, wow,
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each one of those generations of men, of leaders, saw
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the world from a very different perspective. They thought about
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leadership differently. They thought about money and loyalty and relationships
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and communication differently. And I learned how to show up.
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I mean, it's like the way I needed to approach
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my dad to get out of doing chores was different
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than the way I needed to approach, approach my great
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grandfather on that. And so it led me, the universe
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kind of opened up paths for that to really show
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up in my life later on to be a fantastic asset.
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When I came out of university, I went to work
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for a management consulting firm that did work around leadership,
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executive alignment, culture change, process improvement type work. So people, process,
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and leadership. And when I first got there, and I'm
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sitting down with our clients, and they're primarily at the
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C-suite level inside companies. And Ryan, these people were looking
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at me like, what the hell are you going to
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tell me about leadership development culture, man? You're like the
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same age as my kid. And of course I'm feeling
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that across the table. And so I could tell them
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until I was blue in the face that I'm not
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there to solve their problems. I'm there to bring them
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the resources and the assets, the 30-year veteran consultants to
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do the work, but I'm here to uncover some of
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the challenges. It wouldn't matter. So to bridge the gap,
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I started asking them more specific questions about their younger workforce.
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So I would say something like, just simple, I would
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just be like, you know, tell me about your internship
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program or your new college recruiting. Like, what's going on
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with your new hires? And this is an 06, 07 timeframe.
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And so, you know, the generation topic wasn't being talked
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about as much. We don't, we didn't have the social media,
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you know, the pipeline of information blasting us every day.
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And so it was less talked about, less known, but
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the pain that came pouring out of these leaders mouths
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as they started to talk about their frustrations with, you know,
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this is really when you and I are kind of
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starting to enter the workplace and, was so apparent, and
474
00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.640
the alarm bells are going off in my mind of, okay,
475
00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.769
here's an opportunity where there is pain in the marketplace,
476
00:25:18.990 --> 00:25:23.269
and for the first time, my age is actually a benefit, right?
477
00:25:23.549 --> 00:25:27.339
Because I am a representation of this group, These people
478
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.680
are leaning into me and they're saying, you know, tell
479
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:31.980
me what it is that you want, your generation. Is
480
00:25:32.039 --> 00:25:35.240
it more money? Is it more involvement, meaning, time off?
481
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:37.500
And it was almost as if I kind of became
482
00:25:37.579 --> 00:25:41.819
their inside guy to the next generation of talent and
483
00:25:41.980 --> 00:25:45.569
the workforce. And so I started studying everything I could
484
00:25:45.670 --> 00:25:47.730
on the topic and I found one of the books
485
00:25:47.769 --> 00:25:50.869
that I picked up. was by two authors named David
486
00:25:50.910 --> 00:25:53.650
Stillman and Lynn Lancaster. And they wrote a bestseller back
487
00:25:53.690 --> 00:25:57.579
in 2002 called When Generations Collide. And I look it
488
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:59.960
up and I see that David was based in Minneapolis,
489
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:01.980
which is where I was living at the time. I
490
00:26:02.039 --> 00:26:05.269
came out of university and went to Minneapolis, Minnesota. And
491
00:26:05.490 --> 00:26:08.049
I had made a living on just picking up the
492
00:26:08.109 --> 00:26:11.529
phone and working in network and cold calling people and
493
00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:14.710
finding a way to break in. And I called David
494
00:26:14.750 --> 00:26:18.390
for about six months to get past his just total
495
00:26:18.470 --> 00:26:22.960
gatekeeper from hell who never let anyone through to finally
496
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:24.779
break through to this guy and convince him to have
497
00:26:24.839 --> 00:26:29.000
breakfast and coffee. And we met, and I just hit
498
00:26:29.019 --> 00:26:32.240
him with all of my ideas about how we should
499
00:26:32.259 --> 00:26:35.369
be collaborating. This is meant to be. He was an Xer.
500
00:26:35.410 --> 00:26:37.829
His business partner was a boomer. I was a millennial.
501
00:26:38.269 --> 00:26:40.150
It should be the three of us. I'm the voice
502
00:26:40.190 --> 00:26:42.890
of the next generation. This is going to be amazing.
503
00:26:43.650 --> 00:26:46.900
And he's looking at me like, who is this kid?
504
00:26:46.940 --> 00:26:50.420
He's crazy. I just met this guy. But he basically
505
00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:51.539
says to me, you know what, if you want to
506
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:53.589
learn how to speak English, You want to understand how to,
507
00:26:53.599 --> 00:26:56.740
you know, bring content to the world. I will mentor
508
00:26:56.779 --> 00:26:58.609
you and help you. We're not looking to hire right
509
00:26:58.619 --> 00:27:01.190
now today, but, you know, we'll stay in touch. And
510
00:27:01.250 --> 00:27:03.690
so we did. And I stayed on his radar for
511
00:27:03.750 --> 00:27:05.750
almost a full year. And then they got the green
512
00:27:05.789 --> 00:27:08.390
light to write a new book at the time. This
513
00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:11.809
is back in 08 on the millennial generation called The
514
00:27:11.970 --> 00:27:15.049
M Factor, How the Millennial Generation is Rocking the Workplace.
515
00:27:15.849 --> 00:27:17.779
And it was like getting called up to the big leagues.
516
00:27:18.099 --> 00:27:19.799
The phone rings and he's like, listen, we got the
517
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:21.440
green light and we think you can help. We think
518
00:27:21.460 --> 00:27:24.960
you'd be an asset and we'll speak on this and
519
00:27:24.980 --> 00:27:27.789
you can help us research, etc. And so I kind
520
00:27:27.829 --> 00:27:32.329
of got launched off of their platform. I'm very blessed.
521
00:27:32.390 --> 00:27:35.799
I stepped onto a platform with a decade's worth of research.
522
00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:40.119
a best-selling book behind it already, access to incredible clients,
523
00:27:40.299 --> 00:27:45.220
and most importantly, two world-class speakers who I then had
524
00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:47.589
the opportunity to go out and speak with. Each of
525
00:27:47.609 --> 00:27:51.069
them are all three of us together and learn the craft,
526
00:27:51.109 --> 00:27:54.970
not only learn the theory of generational shifts and leadership trends,
527
00:27:55.630 --> 00:27:58.559
but The craft of going out in front of whether
528
00:27:58.579 --> 00:28:03.509
it's 100 people or 2,000 people, moving an audience through
529
00:28:03.630 --> 00:28:07.009
content and helping them have aha moments that leave lasting
530
00:28:07.049 --> 00:28:12.490
impressions was priceless. And I had to go out and give.
531
00:28:13.349 --> 00:28:15.710
This goes back to resiliency and taking lumps. I had
532
00:28:15.730 --> 00:28:17.380
to go out and give. And you better bet your
533
00:28:17.500 --> 00:28:20.440
ass the first couple of years I gave some not
534
00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:26.859
so great speeches. I was literally withering out there on
535
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:30.829
the vine, sometimes right next to a world-class speaker, which
536
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.930
becomes even more painful when they're polished and perfect next
537
00:28:33.970 --> 00:28:38.529
to you. But I refused to fold up shop and
538
00:28:38.569 --> 00:28:40.740
I just said, I just got to keep working on it.
539
00:28:40.750 --> 00:28:41.950
I got to keep coming out here. I got to
540
00:28:42.029 --> 00:28:46.690
keep doing it. And eventually, the first phase, you start
541
00:28:46.710 --> 00:28:49.779
to emulate those people. You try to sound like them.
542
00:28:49.859 --> 00:28:52.240
I would try to sound like David and Lynn. I
543
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:54.019
think we all do that in our careers. But then
544
00:28:54.039 --> 00:28:57.559
you keep hammering on it, and pretty soon, you start
545
00:28:57.660 --> 00:29:02.799
to sound like yourself. And there is this magical moment
546
00:29:02.839 --> 00:29:06.470
when you finally, in whatever your art, your craft is,
547
00:29:07.029 --> 00:29:10.950
whether it's a musical instrument or writing, fill in the blank,
548
00:29:10.990 --> 00:29:13.710
when you get to show up in your arena, in
549
00:29:13.750 --> 00:29:17.299
your stage, and you sound like you, your most authentic
550
00:29:17.339 --> 00:29:20.359
version of yourself, that is a moment of pure bliss.
551
00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:21.279
And.
552
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.289
To this day, I am still– I'm not there yet.
553
00:29:26.329 --> 00:29:28.849
It's like I'm starting to sound more like me I think.
554
00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:31.529
But every day as you show up and you keep
555
00:29:31.589 --> 00:29:34.670
trying to get to that place of your most authentic version.
556
00:29:34.789 --> 00:29:41.130
So the work today is about writing. these concepts, these
557
00:29:41.170 --> 00:29:43.150
trends of what's coming next in the world of work
558
00:29:43.210 --> 00:29:46.380
and leadership and going out there and delivering content, whether
559
00:29:46.420 --> 00:29:50.720
it's through keynote speeches or small workshops with leadership teams
560
00:29:50.799 --> 00:29:52.059
from around the world.
561
00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:57.789
Seth, man, I love that story. Specifically, I'm fascinated by
562
00:29:57.970 --> 00:30:01.549
origin stories and how things get started and why.
563
00:30:01.690 --> 00:30:03.509
And especially when people.
564
00:30:04.819 --> 00:30:07.680
look at things and, you know, go to your website,
565
00:30:07.700 --> 00:30:09.920
look at you online and look at all the videos
566
00:30:09.960 --> 00:30:12.720
of you speaking. You're like, whoa, like this dude has,
567
00:30:13.769 --> 00:30:17.029
he's crushing it. He's making it happen. But what people
568
00:30:17.049 --> 00:30:19.950
don't always realize is the fact that you're sitting there
569
00:30:20.130 --> 00:30:24.119
cold calling an author that you admire for six months
570
00:30:24.140 --> 00:30:25.319
and just.
571
00:30:25.079 --> 00:30:27.240
To be able to meet with him, to talk, to
572
00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:27.579
meet him.
573
00:30:27.779 --> 00:30:31.380
I love that part of these stories because that's what
574
00:30:31.440 --> 00:30:33.220
I found to be a common. I just spoke with
575
00:30:33.259 --> 00:30:36.140
a great author named Ryan Holiday, The Obstacle is the Way,
576
00:30:36.180 --> 00:30:36.970
and Ryan.
577
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:37.950
Mentioned something very similar.
578
00:30:38.349 --> 00:30:41.470
Yeah, and he said something very similar, the fact that
579
00:30:41.509 --> 00:30:44.269
he was willing to go work for free for great
580
00:30:44.670 --> 00:30:47.089
people that he admired because he knew it would be
581
00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:48.930
worth it in the long run. And I think that's
582
00:30:48.970 --> 00:30:53.210
the difference between people who sustain excellence over extended periods
583
00:30:53.230 --> 00:30:54.319
of time and.
584
00:30:54.259 --> 00:30:55.210
Those who don't.
585
00:30:55.420 --> 00:30:58.200
It's the fact that you're going to be resilient in
586
00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:02.759
your aggressive approach to meeting somebody that you admire because
587
00:31:03.539 --> 00:31:05.519
you believe in them, you want to work with them,
588
00:31:05.539 --> 00:31:08.359
you just want to find a way to be around them.
589
00:31:08.420 --> 00:31:11.180
If there's one key message or takeaway that I think
590
00:31:11.200 --> 00:31:14.480
people could take, it's if you find or you see
591
00:31:14.539 --> 00:31:19.519
somebody like that, without being a stalker, but be resilient
592
00:31:19.619 --> 00:31:23.099
and go after it, that person to sit down and
593
00:31:23.140 --> 00:31:26.019
have coffee with them, to bring value to that relationship
594
00:31:26.140 --> 00:31:29.259
for the person that maybe you view as a hero
595
00:31:29.299 --> 00:31:30.619
of yours. If you can find a way to bring
596
00:31:30.660 --> 00:31:35.119
them value, then who knows what potential opportunity could come next.
597
00:31:35.589 --> 00:31:39.390
Amen. Amen. And I will add to this only because
598
00:31:39.410 --> 00:31:42.740
it's kind of been teed up. It's normally not something
599
00:31:43.299 --> 00:31:46.599
I talk about. I've actually never written this story. I've
600
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:49.589
never said it in public on stage, but I think
601
00:31:49.630 --> 00:31:53.849
it's important for viewers. to hear this because you bring
602
00:31:53.869 --> 00:31:55.650
it to my attention. It is. It's easy to go
603
00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:57.390
to my website. It's easy to go to people that
604
00:31:57.410 --> 00:32:00.029
we look up to and be like, you're so lucky.
605
00:32:01.369 --> 00:32:03.470
We don't see all the prices they paid. And here's
606
00:32:03.509 --> 00:32:06.410
the truth. When I started with David and Lynn, it
607
00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.470
was 08 going into 09. Anybody remember what happened to
608
00:32:09.509 --> 00:32:10.529
our economy at that time?
609
00:32:10.549 --> 00:32:11.230
It was not good.
610
00:32:11.730 --> 00:32:13.710
We went into the toilet. And one of the first
611
00:32:13.769 --> 00:32:16.650
things that companies cut was their learning and development and
612
00:32:16.710 --> 00:32:22.859
conference budgets. So the speaking business took a tremendous hit
613
00:32:22.990 --> 00:32:26.660
going into 2009. And we were in a situation where they,
614
00:32:26.740 --> 00:32:29.480
quite frankly, did not have the resources to be able
615
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:34.000
to pay, you know, really even, you know, barely a
616
00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:36.640
livable salary. And this was not a knock against them.
617
00:32:36.660 --> 00:32:39.220
It was just, it was survival mode. And for that,
618
00:32:39.380 --> 00:32:43.460
the first six months of that year, Brian, I donated
619
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:47.019
blood platelets two times a week to make $ 60 a
620
00:32:49.230 --> 00:32:53.059
every week to put an extra $ 240 together for the month,
621
00:32:53.480 --> 00:32:56.019
that was enough to like put gas in my car.
622
00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:59.240
That fall, you know, it was like, they don't even
623
00:32:59.259 --> 00:33:01.390
know if they're going to be able to continue. I'm
624
00:33:01.710 --> 00:33:06.559
literally asking my network, right? one of the CEOs who
625
00:33:06.670 --> 00:33:10.400
owned a warehouse packaging shipping company, if I could go
626
00:33:10.440 --> 00:33:12.859
into the warehouse and work at night so that I
627
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:16.039
could keep this going, because I was not ready. I
628
00:33:16.099 --> 00:33:18.880
refused to let go of this dream of being able
629
00:33:19.220 --> 00:33:21.119
to work with these two authors and to be able
630
00:33:21.140 --> 00:33:23.660
to someday get to step out on that stage. But
631
00:33:23.740 --> 00:33:26.779
no one knows that story. I don't normally talk about that.
632
00:33:26.799 --> 00:33:28.599
And I'm not even telling you this now to be like,
633
00:33:28.619 --> 00:33:32.900
you know, I don't Aren't I a badass? But you
634
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:34.529
do bring up the point of I think it is
635
00:33:34.589 --> 00:33:36.529
important for people to know and to think. It's like
636
00:33:36.650 --> 00:33:39.769
what are you willing to pay? What price are you
637
00:33:39.809 --> 00:33:41.710
willing to pay to make that dream come true? Because
638
00:33:41.750 --> 00:33:44.190
guess what? Everyone has to pay.
639
00:33:45.769 --> 00:33:46.470
What a story.
640
00:33:46.490 --> 00:33:47.049
Wow.
641
00:33:47.109 --> 00:33:52.880
I mean that gives an incredible visual to– what it takes, man.
642
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:54.880
You know, I mean, there's, there's a lot that goes.
643
00:33:54.769 --> 00:33:58.230
Into it that the, the old adage too, when, when
644
00:33:58.269 --> 00:34:02.170
you hear or you see these overnight successes, it's, it's
645
00:34:02.230 --> 00:34:05.710
the overnight part is like 15 years, you know, normally,
646
00:34:06.269 --> 00:34:08.769
especially like with the musicians, you're like, wow, all of
647
00:34:08.829 --> 00:34:11.710
a sudden they're big time. Well, they played in bars
648
00:34:11.789 --> 00:34:15.409
with 15 people for 10 years. And all of a
649
00:34:15.469 --> 00:34:17.989
sudden they've, they've made it. I think there's something very
650
00:34:18.010 --> 00:34:21.679
similar and it's, it's inspiring to me to, to hear
651
00:34:21.739 --> 00:34:24.619
those types of stories to now.
652
00:34:24.440 --> 00:34:25.460
Where you are.
653
00:34:26.039 --> 00:34:28.050
You know, like I said, go online, Google your name,
654
00:34:28.070 --> 00:34:31.130
and you'll see all the videos and the great talks
655
00:34:31.170 --> 00:34:34.860
that you give. And I'm curious just to change gears
656
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.860
a little bit now. So when you go and speak
657
00:34:37.980 --> 00:34:42.469
with companies and you consult or workshops and you talk
658
00:34:42.550 --> 00:34:46.429
about hiring specifically, because I think that the listeners here
659
00:34:46.469 --> 00:34:47.909
are in this, a lot of them are in this
660
00:34:48.030 --> 00:34:53.139
age range of where they're going out to interview for jobs.
661
00:34:53.860 --> 00:34:55.639
When you do that, what are some of the.
662
00:34:56.900 --> 00:35:00.039
What are those conversations like with HR departments or with
663
00:35:00.099 --> 00:35:02.599
companies when you say, what specifically are you looking for?
664
00:35:02.619 --> 00:35:05.400
I know it's determined based on what exactly is the
665
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.469
role because you don't look for the exact same person
666
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:09.329
regardless of the role. But what are some of the
667
00:35:09.369 --> 00:35:13.510
characteristics that people need to bring to add value to companies,
668
00:35:13.550 --> 00:35:15.030
whether they're large or small?
669
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:18.300
It's a great question. There's a couple of things that
670
00:35:18.360 --> 00:35:20.199
come to mind, and you're absolutely right. Some of the
671
00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.409
technical skills have to be in place, but we're hearing
672
00:35:24.449 --> 00:35:28.150
more and more from hiring managers that they're even reevaluating
673
00:35:28.170 --> 00:35:30.429
some of those things and saying, we can teach, we
674
00:35:30.469 --> 00:35:34.409
can train some of those things, but what do we
675
00:35:34.429 --> 00:35:36.349
know we have advantage if we can get a candidate
676
00:35:36.389 --> 00:35:39.289
who comes in who has a couple of different things?
677
00:35:39.489 --> 00:35:44.539
One of them is a curious... A curious mindset, right?
678
00:35:44.619 --> 00:35:48.809
So they come in with this mindset of, I don't
679
00:35:48.909 --> 00:35:52.260
believe that I have it all figured out. And I
680
00:35:52.300 --> 00:35:54.159
think this is really important because a lot of times
681
00:35:54.179 --> 00:35:57.130
we come in, and particularly for the younger generation, you
682
00:35:57.230 --> 00:35:59.929
are going to come in and you actually probably do know,
683
00:36:00.010 --> 00:36:03.090
particularly around technology and how to get things done faster
684
00:36:03.210 --> 00:36:07.090
and leveraging apps and programs. You can walk into a
685
00:36:07.130 --> 00:36:08.900
department or a group and look at some of their
686
00:36:08.940 --> 00:36:11.500
processes and be like, oh my gosh, I could write
687
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:13.300
a program that could help us do that 10 times
688
00:36:13.380 --> 00:36:18.489
faster or just seeing it with fresh eyes. Bring that enthusiasm.
689
00:36:18.530 --> 00:36:21.489
We want those ideas, but also want someone who comes
690
00:36:21.670 --> 00:36:25.929
in and is curious in wanting to understand and learn
691
00:36:26.190 --> 00:36:28.550
everything they can. So someone who walks in and they
692
00:36:28.570 --> 00:36:30.889
have a mindset of like, wow, there's people in here
693
00:36:30.929 --> 00:36:33.269
with 15 and 20 years of experience. I want to
694
00:36:33.289 --> 00:36:36.829
try to gobble up everything I possibly can from these people.
695
00:36:37.449 --> 00:36:39.780
I'm going to listen more than I talk. That doesn't
696
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:42.019
mean don't bring your ideas. It doesn't mean don't be
697
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:47.460
enthusiastic and try to make change. but be curious, seek
698
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:51.400
first to listen and hear and understand before being understood.
699
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:57.090
That is so incredibly important. So curiosity, number one, right?
700
00:36:57.989 --> 00:37:00.389
Number two, big thing that comes up all the time is,
701
00:37:00.590 --> 00:37:04.789
is this idea of enthusiasm, right? The infectious energy to
702
00:37:04.849 --> 00:37:08.409
come in and, and want to create something special to, to,
703
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:10.699
to light the place up because the truth is, and
704
00:37:10.719 --> 00:37:12.300
I hear this from leaders all the time. It's like,
705
00:37:12.780 --> 00:37:15.980
It's inevitable. You're doing your role or a job or
706
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:20.360
work for 10, 20, 25-plus years. You lose some of
707
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.079
the excitement. And I see it play out a lot
708
00:37:23.099 --> 00:37:25.360
of times with teams we're working with. They'll be like, man,
709
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:28.320
we brought in four new hires, four people right out
710
00:37:28.360 --> 00:37:31.590
of university, and the energy they brought to the table
711
00:37:31.650 --> 00:37:34.750
just totally changed the dynamic of our culture. And we
712
00:37:34.849 --> 00:37:37.210
love it and we're trying to harness it. They'll be like, ah,
713
00:37:37.250 --> 00:37:39.070
sometimes they're maybe a little out there and we kind
714
00:37:39.090 --> 00:37:41.889
of got to reel them back in. But, man, do
715
00:37:41.909 --> 00:37:45.849
we love that enthusiasm and that energy. So the point
716
00:37:45.869 --> 00:37:48.070
to that is it's like if you're showing up and
717
00:37:48.110 --> 00:37:51.670
you suck the life out of the room, right, you're
718
00:37:51.789 --> 00:37:54.929
not fired up. You're not enthusiastic about this place. You're
719
00:37:55.030 --> 00:37:58.420
not going through the motions. It's a big-time problem. So
720
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:03.769
curious energy. super enthusiastic. And then there's this element of
721
00:38:04.570 --> 00:38:09.550
being willing to pay your dues a little bit. And
722
00:38:09.570 --> 00:38:12.170
this goes to this idea of like, even if you know,
723
00:38:12.250 --> 00:38:14.650
and it's so interesting to watch this play out today,
724
00:38:14.670 --> 00:38:16.449
where I've got a couple of clients I'm working with,
725
00:38:16.489 --> 00:38:18.630
where they have someone who's maybe two or three years
726
00:38:18.690 --> 00:38:21.530
into their career. And the truth is they can do
727
00:38:21.610 --> 00:38:25.599
their particular function, their role, as well as someone they're
728
00:38:25.619 --> 00:38:27.260
sitting next to who's been there for 15 or 20 years.
729
00:38:28.659 --> 00:38:31.820
They're literally able to do it as well. And in
730
00:38:31.860 --> 00:38:35.639
their mind, then they're thinking that they can get out
731
00:38:35.659 --> 00:38:39.610
of having to do some of the less sexy tasks
732
00:38:40.050 --> 00:38:42.170
or that they should be making as much or more
733
00:38:42.250 --> 00:38:44.309
money than that person. And I think that's an interesting
734
00:38:44.369 --> 00:38:48.480
conversation to have of do you pay– is there some
735
00:38:48.659 --> 00:38:51.679
value in 20 years of experience even if you're doing
736
00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.340
the same work? My point to the people who are listening,
737
00:38:54.360 --> 00:38:56.460
who are thinking about their own careers, trying to get
738
00:38:56.500 --> 00:39:00.440
a job, is be the person who's not above any task.
739
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:03.280
Be the person who's not above any task. You do
740
00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:05.690
whatever is asked of you. You show up early. You
741
00:39:05.750 --> 00:39:09.510
stay late. Some of those core principles that have existed forever,
742
00:39:09.869 --> 00:39:12.130
what I'm telling you is less and less people are
743
00:39:12.170 --> 00:39:14.429
willing to do that, so you will stand out more
744
00:39:14.489 --> 00:39:20.820
and more if you are. Curiosity matters. Be curious, be enthusiastic,
745
00:39:20.960 --> 00:39:22.800
and be willing to go in there and do the
746
00:39:22.860 --> 00:39:25.460
things most people won't, pay the dues a little bit,
747
00:39:25.989 --> 00:39:28.869
do the tough stuff. These are some of the intangibles
748
00:39:29.190 --> 00:39:31.400
that leaders in high managers are looking for. And if
749
00:39:31.420 --> 00:39:34.150
you can find ways to articulate that in an interview
750
00:39:34.190 --> 00:39:36.230
process and bring that to life, even better.
751
00:39:36.250 --> 00:39:38.929
So good. So good. I love it.
752
00:39:38.969 --> 00:39:43.409
What about From a mentor perspective, there's a lot out
753
00:39:43.429 --> 00:39:46.110
there on this, and it's really important, I believe, to
754
00:39:46.170 --> 00:39:49.099
have a good core group of mentors who are willing
755
00:39:49.159 --> 00:39:53.179
to give you constructive feedback. People who have been there
756
00:39:53.219 --> 00:39:57.530
before you, they can show you the way. Obviously, you
757
00:39:57.570 --> 00:40:01.110
just told the great story of how you... aggressively pursued
758
00:40:01.389 --> 00:40:04.090
people to mentor you. I'd love to hear some of
759
00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:08.420
your tips and actionable advice to people who say, yeah,
760
00:40:08.619 --> 00:40:10.050
I'd love to have mentors. I hear about it all
761
00:40:10.070 --> 00:40:14.199
the time. I know it's really important, but I just... Yeah,
762
00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:16.480
I'm not making it happen right now. I can't find
763
00:40:16.719 --> 00:40:18.239
the right ones and the ones who I want to
764
00:40:18.280 --> 00:40:19.380
be aren't really willing.
765
00:40:19.420 --> 00:40:20.699
So what should I do?
766
00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:23.409
Yeah, great question. So I mean it's a couple of things.
767
00:40:23.610 --> 00:40:27.349
One though, first and foremost, it starts with intentionality. You
768
00:40:27.510 --> 00:40:30.610
have to bring a tremendous amount of intention to the process.
769
00:40:30.630 --> 00:40:34.159
And what I mean by that is it can't just be, gosh,
770
00:40:34.199 --> 00:40:36.300
I'd really like to have Ryan as a mentor. Maybe
771
00:40:36.380 --> 00:40:38.679
I shoot him a couple of tweets and ask him
772
00:40:38.739 --> 00:40:41.960
if maybe he'd like to mentor me. you got to
773
00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:44.760
have a plan and the first things in that plan
774
00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:47.199
is even if you want someone to mentor you even
775
00:40:47.280 --> 00:40:49.989
if they have 25 more years of experience in you
776
00:40:50.409 --> 00:40:53.989
there is always a way to add value to someone
777
00:40:54.030 --> 00:40:56.889
else's life so if i want to get access to
778
00:40:56.949 --> 00:40:58.929
ryan it's like i spending a little bit of time
779
00:40:58.969 --> 00:41:01.610
and instead of leading with the ask it's finding a
780
00:41:01.630 --> 00:41:03.949
way to lead with a little bit of generosity Is
781
00:41:03.969 --> 00:41:06.480
there one small thing that I could do that would
782
00:41:06.519 --> 00:41:11.760
add value to you? Honestly, if I'm thinking about you,
783
00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:13.900
I'm thinking it would be easy to be like, I'm
784
00:41:13.960 --> 00:41:17.539
sure Ryan has access to everybody. He couldn't possibly need
785
00:41:17.679 --> 00:41:21.829
any ideas or references or referrals. Bullshit. Even if he does,
786
00:41:21.889 --> 00:41:24.730
who cares? If someone sends you a note that you've
787
00:41:24.769 --> 00:41:27.369
never met before and they're like, hey, number one, I'm
788
00:41:27.409 --> 00:41:30.389
a big fan of your show. I follow all your stuff.
789
00:41:31.090 --> 00:41:34.150
I followed you when you played football at Ohio, whatever.
790
00:41:34.170 --> 00:41:36.909
And I was thinking about you the other day and
791
00:41:36.949 --> 00:41:39.469
I've– in the past couple of years, I've met three
792
00:41:39.530 --> 00:41:41.769
people that I think would be great for your show
793
00:41:42.190 --> 00:41:45.150
and I could give you– I could connect you to them.
794
00:41:45.590 --> 00:41:49.010
Here's their names. Let me know if you'd like to connect, blah, blah, blah.
795
00:41:49.300 --> 00:41:52.179
Lead with some generosity. All of a sudden now I'm
796
00:41:52.219 --> 00:41:54.719
having a very different conversation with you than if I
797
00:41:54.760 --> 00:41:57.420
had led with, I'd really like to start my own podcast.
798
00:41:57.480 --> 00:41:59.460
Is there any way you could help me?
799
00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:01.739
Or can I pick your brain, which is a phrase
800
00:42:01.780 --> 00:42:04.760
that really bothers me. It irks me, man. That happens
801
00:42:04.949 --> 00:42:07.510
too much. And I understand what people mean when they
802
00:42:07.550 --> 00:42:10.090
say it. I completely get it. And I don't want
803
00:42:10.150 --> 00:42:12.309
anyone to be offended that's said that to me literally
804
00:42:12.329 --> 00:42:12.989
within the last 24 hours.
805
00:42:13.010 --> 00:42:17.619
But I think– I just don't like that phrase.
806
00:42:17.719 --> 00:42:20.099
I would say just use something else, you know, or
807
00:42:20.139 --> 00:42:22.130
like you said, and I, I've also had, just like
808
00:42:22.170 --> 00:42:26.130
you mentioned, I have had young, young people or, or
809
00:42:26.150 --> 00:42:29.320
people of all ages actually shoot me a note saying, Hey,
810
00:42:30.219 --> 00:42:34.559
So-and-so is phenomenal. And I think he or she would
811
00:42:34.599 --> 00:42:37.170
be so great to be on your show. Would you
812
00:42:37.210 --> 00:42:39.590
like me to introduce you? Here's how I know them.
813
00:42:40.409 --> 00:42:42.389
And I'm so impressed by that. And then, yeah, they'll
814
00:42:42.409 --> 00:42:44.050
have an ask to go with it at some point.
815
00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:46.760
And sometimes they don't have an ask. They're literally just giving.
816
00:42:47.059 --> 00:42:49.940
which is incredible, and I love that. But that's why
817
00:42:49.980 --> 00:42:53.699
the advice you're giving is so on point for what
818
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:56.960
I think is from finding a mentor perspective because so
819
00:42:57.000 --> 00:42:59.900
many of these guys or girls are hearing the, hey,
820
00:42:59.940 --> 00:43:02.159
can I have 15, 20 minutes to pick your brain
821
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:03.059
and buy you coffee?
822
00:43:03.099 --> 00:43:05.440
They hear that every day. You know what I mean?
823
00:43:06.059 --> 00:43:06.599
It's the worst.
824
00:43:06.760 --> 00:43:09.119
If you're listening to this– If you're listening to this
825
00:43:09.179 --> 00:43:12.429
and you've, and listen, I've been guilty of it in
826
00:43:12.469 --> 00:43:15.070
the past too. So this is not scolding and this
827
00:43:15.090 --> 00:43:16.789
is the, you know, the pot calling the kettle black.
828
00:43:16.909 --> 00:43:18.730
I've been guilty of it, but I had a mentor
829
00:43:18.769 --> 00:43:21.289
who coached me up on it. So the whole idea
830
00:43:21.329 --> 00:43:23.809
of leading with generosity, the other thing, and you started
831
00:43:23.849 --> 00:43:27.179
to allude to this is to be totally transparent with
832
00:43:27.219 --> 00:43:30.150
your ask, right? So if I want to get Instead
833
00:43:30.190 --> 00:43:32.250
of saying, can I pick your brain and have coffee,
834
00:43:32.650 --> 00:43:34.389
I'm going to write you and I say, I know
835
00:43:34.409 --> 00:43:36.329
you're incredibly busy and I'd be willing to bet you
836
00:43:36.369 --> 00:43:40.070
get 10 of these every single day. What I would
837
00:43:40.110 --> 00:43:42.449
love is 15 minutes of your time to talk about
838
00:43:42.650 --> 00:43:45.630
these two specific things. These are two areas of my
839
00:43:45.670 --> 00:43:47.369
life that I'm trying to work on. This is what
840
00:43:47.389 --> 00:43:49.940
I'd love to talk about. So you know going into
841
00:43:50.019 --> 00:43:52.780
it the time commitment that's involved and exactly what they're
842
00:43:52.800 --> 00:43:55.840
looking for. Again, it just kind of removed some of
843
00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:58.500
the uneasiness of like, now they're going to ask me
844
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:00.619
to invest in their company. Are they trying to get
845
00:44:00.659 --> 00:44:03.840
a job? Is this an hour? And until you get
846
00:44:03.900 --> 00:44:07.119
to a position where you're receiving, you see how many
847
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:09.949
phone calls and emails come in of people saying, can
848
00:44:09.969 --> 00:44:12.590
I pick your brain? You start to understand it's difficult.
849
00:44:12.650 --> 00:44:14.429
And listen, and I'm sure you're in the same boat.
850
00:44:15.269 --> 00:44:17.409
I want to send the elevator– not that I'm on
851
00:44:17.429 --> 00:44:19.630
the top floor. I'm not. I'm like on the middle floor, right?
852
00:44:19.650 --> 00:44:21.780
But I still want to send the elevator down to
853
00:44:22.340 --> 00:44:25.099
the people on the ground floor, right, to help them
854
00:44:25.139 --> 00:44:28.860
as much as possible. But you get overwhelmed with the asks.
855
00:44:30.010 --> 00:44:32.250
Can we have coffee and pick your brain? So on
856
00:44:32.269 --> 00:44:35.969
the mentoring front, those, those are some really important things. Lead,
857
00:44:35.989 --> 00:44:39.389
you know, give, lead, be transparent with the ask and
858
00:44:39.449 --> 00:44:40.079
go into it.
859
00:44:40.110 --> 00:44:44.199
And I would say be very, very intentional. You know, I,
860
00:44:44.289 --> 00:44:46.309
before I would go into that meeting and Ryan maybe
861
00:44:46.349 --> 00:44:48.230
talked about, this is something that he and I always
862
00:44:48.250 --> 00:44:53.869
get into is this whole idea of like, Ryan Estes
863
00:44:54.070 --> 00:44:56.690
is before sitting down in any meeting, whether it's with
864
00:44:56.750 --> 00:45:00.719
a mentor or someone else, is preparing three to four
865
00:45:00.929 --> 00:45:05.269
effective open-ended questions before you even go. So if I
866
00:45:05.289 --> 00:45:08.489
have a meeting with you, Ryan Hawk, it's like I'm
867
00:45:08.510 --> 00:45:09.710
going to sit down and I'm going to have three
868
00:45:09.730 --> 00:45:13.489
to four effective open-ended questions already prepared so that I
869
00:45:13.550 --> 00:45:17.070
am making the maximum use of our time together instead
870
00:45:17.110 --> 00:45:18.599
of just sitting down with you and being like, so
871
00:45:18.639 --> 00:45:21.099
tell me how you got started in this and what
872
00:45:21.119 --> 00:45:22.940
would be your advice? No, no, no.
873
00:45:25.570 --> 00:45:26.090
I love that.
874
00:45:26.130 --> 00:45:31.320
That's great actionable advice to be prepared for those meetings
875
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:32.559
when you get your moment.
876
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:33.420
Your opportunity.
877
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:37.219
For me, nothing impresses me more than somebody who asks
878
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:43.300
really insightful, well-thought-out, researched questions. And then they listen to
879
00:45:43.340 --> 00:45:46.949
what you say, and then their follow-up questions are based
880
00:45:47.230 --> 00:45:49.650
on listening to exactly what you said instead of just
881
00:45:49.730 --> 00:45:51.889
reading down the list. So it's a combination of both
882
00:45:51.909 --> 00:45:56.219
of those things. So this is This is really great stuff, Seth.
883
00:45:56.340 --> 00:45:58.840
I think we're going to have to maybe do another
884
00:45:58.920 --> 00:46:00.280
one here. Maybe when you have a book come out
885
00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:02.780
or something coming up that I'd love to talk to you.
886
00:46:02.820 --> 00:46:06.619
I know we're getting up. I want to start wrapping
887
00:46:06.659 --> 00:46:08.260
up here. I got a question for you, though.
888
00:46:09.159 --> 00:46:10.860
Before we go to your question, I just want to
889
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:13.429
throw one more idea out there that I think would
890
00:46:13.449 --> 00:46:18.230
be hugely valuable, especially for either young entrepreneurs or young
891
00:46:18.250 --> 00:46:20.429
people early in their career in a company. And that–
892
00:46:20.469 --> 00:46:22.190
because this comes up all the time and I'll make
893
00:46:22.230 --> 00:46:25.510
this brief. But it's this whole idea of wanting to
894
00:46:25.550 --> 00:46:28.699
be innovative, wanting to kind of have that entrepreneurial spirit
895
00:46:28.780 --> 00:46:31.219
inside of a company, wanting to bring new ideas and
896
00:46:31.260 --> 00:46:34.579
change inside the company. How do you sell innovation? your ideas.
897
00:46:34.679 --> 00:46:38.340
I get that all the time. And the best advice
898
00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:40.320
I can give you is first and foremost, before you
899
00:46:40.360 --> 00:46:42.260
go in and you're going to see it with fresh
900
00:46:42.380 --> 00:46:43.980
eyes and you're like, oh my God, there's so much
901
00:46:44.039 --> 00:46:47.130
change we could pull off in here, is take whether
902
00:46:47.170 --> 00:46:50.050
it's three months, six months, the first year and and
903
00:46:50.130 --> 00:46:53.110
just become a master of all of the systems and
904
00:46:53.170 --> 00:46:56.969
how things work in their current form right now. Because
905
00:46:56.989 --> 00:46:59.809
you have to know that what you're seeing took 20
906
00:46:59.809 --> 00:47:02.389
or 30 years of iteration and change to get to that.
907
00:47:02.710 --> 00:47:04.469
But if you come in on day one and you're
908
00:47:04.489 --> 00:47:07.289
looking at whatever that process, whatever that technology is, and
909
00:47:07.309 --> 00:47:09.190
you're like, oh, my God, this thing looks like it's
910
00:47:09.210 --> 00:47:12.789
from the Stone Age. How long have you been doing this? 1979?
911
00:47:12.789 --> 00:47:15.119
The person you're saying that to could be the very
912
00:47:15.159 --> 00:47:19.420
person who created that piece of technology, that process, etc.
913
00:47:19.539 --> 00:47:22.579
It's an incredibly offensive way to start out the process.
914
00:47:23.019 --> 00:47:27.610
So understand the systems. One. Two. Instead of going in
915
00:47:27.650 --> 00:47:31.489
and trying to change something ginormous, look for one. Try
916
00:47:31.530 --> 00:47:36.059
to get one small win first. Find one small little
917
00:47:36.139 --> 00:47:38.699
thing first. One small idea that you can get implemented,
918
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:41.840
one small change. Go for something small so that you
919
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:45.500
can earn some credibility. The other major thing you have
920
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:48.010
to do is you have to get a champion. You
921
00:47:48.110 --> 00:47:52.050
find one champion inside the organization who will support you
922
00:47:52.469 --> 00:47:54.530
in the process of you pulling out your new idea.
923
00:47:54.789 --> 00:47:56.389
So if I can get a champion who's one of
924
00:47:56.429 --> 00:47:59.170
the senior executives or someone that people look up to,
925
00:47:59.489 --> 00:48:01.199
and I know that he or she will stick up
926
00:48:01.239 --> 00:48:03.980
for me and support me in my hope of pulling
927
00:48:04.000 --> 00:48:06.659
this new idea off... Now I'm getting somewhere. I've got
928
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.440
a support champion. I pull off one small idea. I
929
00:48:09.460 --> 00:48:12.139
get some credibility. Now I have the right to go
930
00:48:12.199 --> 00:48:14.460
in and talk about maybe pulling something bigger off. But
931
00:48:14.500 --> 00:48:17.159
there's a process through it. I just see so many
932
00:48:17.219 --> 00:48:19.559
young people who they get frustrated. They're like, I've got
933
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:22.239
all these great ideas and nobody listens to me. I
934
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:25.019
can't pull anything off. It's like you have to be
935
00:48:25.079 --> 00:48:26.980
intentional about it, gang. And if you do that, you're
936
00:48:27.000 --> 00:48:28.300
going to see some serious results.
937
00:48:30.110 --> 00:48:30.570
Really good.
938
00:48:31.030 --> 00:48:35.050
That's great advice. I was just reading an article. I
939
00:48:35.090 --> 00:48:37.329
wish I could cite it. But basically it said if
940
00:48:37.369 --> 00:48:39.920
you take over a new leadership role, let's say in
941
00:48:39.940 --> 00:48:43.079
a corporation, people listening, this has happened to them obviously,
942
00:48:43.139 --> 00:48:45.679
where you're brought in as a manager or director or
943
00:48:45.900 --> 00:48:48.150
vice president of some part of a business.
944
00:48:48.909 --> 00:48:49.809
The best ones.
945
00:48:50.050 --> 00:48:52.179
Actually, I know which one's Adam Grant and originals, his
946
00:48:52.219 --> 00:48:55.699
new book just coming out. He talks about the fact
947
00:48:55.719 --> 00:48:58.260
that you don't need to go in and immediately just
948
00:48:58.659 --> 00:49:02.059
flip the organization upside down just for change sake.
949
00:49:02.179 --> 00:49:02.460
Yes.
950
00:49:02.539 --> 00:49:06.389
Go, go into the organization as a learner, understand what's
951
00:49:06.449 --> 00:49:10.469
going on, what's going well, what's not, what needs to
952
00:49:10.510 --> 00:49:12.289
be changed, but don't just go in there and start
953
00:49:12.409 --> 00:49:16.130
firing everybody to put your big stamp on the organization.
954
00:49:16.329 --> 00:49:18.949
The insecure leaders are going to go do that. They're
955
00:49:18.969 --> 00:49:22.469
going to come in and instantly... shake things up to say, hey,
956
00:49:22.809 --> 00:49:24.550
the big boss is here, man.
957
00:49:24.630 --> 00:49:25.650
Like, I'm here now.
958
00:49:26.030 --> 00:49:31.659
And the secure, intelligent, great thinking type of leaders will
959
00:49:31.699 --> 00:49:36.460
come in and learn first, get an understanding for what
960
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:40.869
is going on, and then gradually... implement and make the changes.
961
00:49:40.909 --> 00:49:43.530
Like you said, you could even do it one at
962
00:49:43.570 --> 00:49:46.539
a time, get your one. And then people will be
963
00:49:46.599 --> 00:49:48.380
bought in because they don't think you're coming in there
964
00:49:48.420 --> 00:49:51.260
just to flip it upside down. Because anytime there's change
965
00:49:51.300 --> 00:49:54.449
in leadership, people are nervous. Oh, God, what's going to happen?
966
00:49:54.489 --> 00:49:55.630
What's going to happen? And you come and say, hey,
967
00:49:55.670 --> 00:49:58.630
it's okay. I'm here to learn. I'm here to listen genuinely.
968
00:49:58.670 --> 00:50:00.969
And then your actions have to follow that, though. You
969
00:50:00.989 --> 00:50:02.530
can't just say it. You've got to go and do it.
970
00:50:02.550 --> 00:50:06.389
And when you do, that's when you create an opportunity
971
00:50:06.469 --> 00:50:10.260
to really have a positive impact wherever you go.
972
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:11.179
Amen.
973
00:50:11.760 --> 00:50:16.820
So, again, this has been a really enjoyable conversation for me.
974
00:50:16.860 --> 00:50:20.059
So I have one final question that's around the fact
975
00:50:20.139 --> 00:50:21.320
that You know.
976
00:50:21.429 --> 00:50:25.250
I love leadership. I love the fact that it's a
977
00:50:25.449 --> 00:50:26.389
skill that.
978
00:50:26.250 --> 00:50:30.309
Can be learned over time. You're not necessarily born with it.
979
00:50:30.340 --> 00:50:33.980
We might have some innate traits. However, it's something that
980
00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:38.320
you can truly become world class at it if you
981
00:50:38.519 --> 00:50:41.469
are intentional and you work at it. And so that's
982
00:50:41.510 --> 00:50:45.010
the whole point of the Learning Leader Show. I know
983
00:50:45.050 --> 00:50:47.670
it's kind of a duplicative term, but it's that way
984
00:50:47.730 --> 00:50:50.530
by definition. I just wanted to get from you. When
985
00:50:50.550 --> 00:50:53.230
you hear that phrase, learning leader, what's the first thing
986
00:50:53.269 --> 00:50:54.289
that comes to mind?
987
00:50:56.289 --> 00:51:00.599
I think it goes back to curiosity. It's having this
988
00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:06.260
natural curiosity about how things work, how people operate, what
989
00:51:06.340 --> 00:51:12.070
motivates people, seeking first to understand first. A learning leader
990
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:15.369
has that kind of mindset, and it just permeates every
991
00:51:15.449 --> 00:51:19.530
single thing that you do, whether it's how intentionally you
992
00:51:19.630 --> 00:51:20.750
are with how you start.
993
00:51:20.550 --> 00:51:23.349
Your morning, what are you reading, who are you listening.
994
00:51:23.030 --> 00:51:25.409
To, to the way you conduct yourself in a meeting.
995
00:51:25.730 --> 00:51:28.030
Are you the first to jump in and try to
996
00:51:28.070 --> 00:51:30.909
deliver your point and make sure people understand your perspective?
997
00:51:31.230 --> 00:51:34.409
Or do you sit back and pull and encourage people
998
00:51:34.469 --> 00:51:38.260
to bring forward their ideas, their thoughts, their feelings first,
999
00:51:38.360 --> 00:51:42.059
process that, and then give some context and perspective around it? That,
1000
00:51:42.099 --> 00:51:45.360
to me, I think is the epitome of what a
1001
00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:46.699
learning leader is.
1002
00:51:46.719 --> 00:51:51.420
Could not agree more. Definitely just right on point. Seth,
1003
00:51:51.440 --> 00:51:53.400
where can everyone go to find you online?
1004
00:51:54.139 --> 00:51:59.610
Easy to find at Seth Madison and SethMadison.com. Just that handle.
1005
00:51:59.949 --> 00:52:03.670
And it's M-A-T-T-I-S-O-N. You know, I've been able to grab
1006
00:52:03.690 --> 00:52:05.230
that on pretty much everything. So whether you're getting me
1007
00:52:05.250 --> 00:52:10.590
on Facebook, Instagram, my website, SethMadison.com, Twitter handle, et cetera. LinkedIn,
1008
00:52:10.829 --> 00:52:13.960
I'm there. And we're trying to put out fun content,
1009
00:52:14.000 --> 00:52:16.519
trying to get people engaged. I look forward to having
1010
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:19.860
conversations with everybody that's listening. And I'm down to help
1011
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:20.599
in any way I can.
1012
00:52:20.820 --> 00:52:21.780
Perfect, man. I love it.
1013
00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:24.409
Well, thanks again for being here, Seth. I love this
1014
00:52:24.659 --> 00:52:28.230
one and look forward for us to continue this dialogue
1015
00:52:28.269 --> 00:52:29.130
as we both progress.
1016
00:52:29.650 --> 00:52:30.070
Likewise.
1017
00:52:30.110 --> 00:52:31.960
Thanks so much for having me, Ryan. Take care. Take care.
1018
00:52:32.949 --> 00:52:35.429
This episode of The Learning Leader Show is over, but
1019
00:52:35.449 --> 00:52:37.610
we have plenty more to keep you locked in until
1020
00:52:37.670 --> 00:52:42.170
next time. Head over to learningleadershow.com for more information and
1021
00:52:42.190 --> 00:52:46.800
to request your favorite entrepreneur, CEO, world-class athlete, or anyone
1022
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:49.480
else that inspires you. You can also talk to Ryan
1023
00:52:49.500 --> 00:52:52.820
directly by reaching out to him on Twitter at RyanHawk12.
1024
00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:55.420
Thanks again, and we'll see you next time on The
1025
00:52:55.460 --> 00:52:56.320
Learning Leader Show.