WEBVTT
00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.759
Hey, welcome back to the Lars Larson Show.
00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:11.439
It's a pleasure to be with you, and I'm always glad to get to your phone calls and emails.
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:15.039
I want to ask you this, and I will admit I have a dog in the fight.
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.280
Uh I have a ki I've had a concealed carry permit since about 1994.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:23.440
In fact, I have a couple of permits to cover a couple of different states.
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:29.199
I'm not covered for every state in America, but I have a bias in favor of concealed carry permits.
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:31.519
Well, okay, now you know my bias.
00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:41.759
San Jose, California wants almost sixteen hundred bucks for an ordinary citizen to be able to have a permit to do something the Second Amendment makes a right.
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:47.759
And I thought we'd talk about that with John O'Connor, who's an experienced trial lawyer and the author of Postgate.
00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:49.280
John, welcome back.
00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:51.119
Hey, good to be with you.
00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:58.479
What is going on in San Jose that they want sixteen hundred bucks for somebody to be able to exercise their constitutional right?
00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:09.680
Well, you know, it it doesn't make sense, uh, but uh some of it is just a typical, I think, a tax grab, uh, you know, to get funding for the police.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:15.760
But what it does is it has the effect of denying people the right to carry firearms.
00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:23.280
Now, what it will do is if you're an if you're a guy that 1,600 bucks isn't much, okay, you can go go get your permit.
00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:33.760
Now, if you're less affluent, but you live in a tough neighborhood, you're kind of out of luck because the guys around you that aren't good guys, they won't care about the concealed carry permit.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.959
They'll violate the law.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:45.359
So it's the old saw that, you know, if if you know, if it's legal to carry guns, you know, only the if it's criminal to carry guns, only the criminals will have guns.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:47.519
So uh that's the problem.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.239
And uh in a nutshell, and it's just not a good thing.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:55.519
I think it's unconstitutional because it is too much of a burden on one's constitutional right.
00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:07.359
Well, in fact, John, am I wrong in seeing a comparison between this and poll taxes that were, you know, where you say, I have a constitutional right to vote in my state?
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.000
You say, yeah, but we're gonna put a poll tax on that.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:14.319
And we're gonna make sure the tax is big enough that it might just keep you from voting.
00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:21.199
Now they did that uh in many cases, they were aiming it specifically at black voters uh in America historically.
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:29.919
But didn't the courts and everybody else decide you can't charge somebody an exorbitant fee to exercise their constitutional rights?
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:31.840
Well, any fee.
00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:40.479
Uh the poll tax was really something that was really meant for southern blacks to disenfranchise them, and it didn't even need to be that high.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:46.800
Uh, but it kept people from voting because the poor people didn't have much money and the poor people were often black.
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:54.560
So that's what happens, and it's a way of filtering out who gets what, and it's just it's not really part of our society.
00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:03.360
When you have a Second Amendment, the whole idea is you shouldn't uh, you know, uh uh condition the exercise of this right on paying money.
00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:12.719
Well, and in fact, uh I know that uh demographically, uh criminal or crimes tend to affect uh poor people more than they do rich people.
00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:17.759
I mean, there's a there's a lot more crime that's aimed at poor people than is aimed at rich people.
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:44.159
And uh and so uh y you know, when you say who needs the protection the most, not that I think that should be a criteria for exercise of constitutional right, but if you say, who is this going to hurt when San Diego decides to charge more than New York, Boston, Chicago, or the District of Columbia, it's going to hurt poor people first and most, because as you pointed out, if you're well healed, you'll just say, oh, sixteen hundred bucks, yeah, I can afford that.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.159
I'm willing to pay that to carry a gun.
00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:53.199
The poor person who who may be hit by crime a whole lot worse than the affluent person, they don't have that money.
00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:54.800
Well, that's right.
00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:55.439
That's right.
00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:02.479
And think about the whole idea uh that you're gonna arrest somebody for trying to protect themselves by having a concealed weapon.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:04.000
That just isn't right.
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:13.840
Uh and so uh, you know, it's it's something that really is is counterhelpful, if there's a word like that, counterhelpful.
00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.079
It just does not do anything.
00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:18.800
And I don't know what the rationale is of this is.
00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:25.439
Obviously, it takes some processing time, I suppose, to figure out if you're eligible for concealed carry.
00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.759
I suppose they want to find out, look through your records and that kind of stuff.
00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.439
But um, I'm not so sure it's worth sixteen hundred dollars.
00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:43.600
No, and in fact, we already pay for isn't NYX the national instant check system, the one that's run so we can all be background checked when we go to buy a firearm.
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:52.079
And I've had I've filled out that form 4473 at least a couple of dozen times over my life, uh, and they run the background check.
00:04:52.160 --> 00:05:00.720
Well, that system's already in place, and there's a modest fee that's charged uh by usually by the gun dealer uh to be able to run that instant check on you.
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.560
Isn't that all they need to check?
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:07.680
They don't need uh$1,000 worth of background check on somebody, do they?
00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.120
Well, bingo, uh I I think you're right, Lars.
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:21.040
Uh, but uh the only thing I would say is that the the that the thought would be that there's a difference between a concealed weapon, concealed carry, and and just a carry.
00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.319
And uh I I think your point is the better point.
00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:39.040
I mean, I just still don't think uh uh obviously there's some process where supposedly you should be uh able to conceal your weapon, um, but still I think the sixteen hundred bucks is too much.
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:48.959
Well, and John, it may not be a legal argument, but I've always thought the the whole point of concealed carry is the bad guys don't know who among the good guys have a gun.
00:05:49.120 --> 00:06:14.560
And the fact that they're in doubt is is part of the strategy, is you say, when the bad guy doesn't know who it is that's gonna pull out a gun and kill them when they start to threaten people's lives illegally, then you we're better protected than if the bad guy can spot the pistol on everybody's hip and says, Okay, if I go to rob that bank, the first three people that are going down are the three customers carrying a pistol, right?
00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:16.480
Well, that's right.
00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:24.480
And you know, that's why places like Texas, people know better than just to willy-nilly assault somebody because you don't know who's who's packing.
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.319
And uh, you know, and and it really is, it's a deterrent.
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:29.680
And it's very well said, Lars.
00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:31.040
It's very well said.
00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:38.639
Uh, you know, we we we sometimes are so uh lack so much common sense in our laws, and this is a good example of it.
00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:39.680
Sadly so.
00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:41.439
Hey, John, thank you very much.
00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.680
We always appreciate you coming on the program.
00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:45.360
Good to talk to you.
00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.879
That is John O'Connor, who is an experienced trial lawyer and the author of Postgate.
00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:52.560
John, we appreciate the time.
00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:56.240
By the way, we all have to deal with computers these days.
00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.319
I've got them all around me in my studio, half a dozen of them anyway.
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:04.720
So are you sick like I am of dealing with a slow computer?
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:17.439
Most people blame the device itself, but the real slowdown, it often comes from the heavy traditional antivirus programs, the ones that hog up all your storage and drag the speed of everything down.
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:22.720
Webroot is a cloud-based antivirus engineered to stay out of your way.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:23.680
Out of my way.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:24.399
I love it.
00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:32.160
It takes up 33 times less space than its bulky competitors, and it scans my computer about six times faster.
00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:38.079
So instead of waiting around, you get instant powerful protection and you get it without all the lag.
00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:44.160
Whether you're working, browsing, or streaming, Webroot is the antivirus that works for you, not against you.
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:50.959
Make the switch and discover the difference of truly fast modern antivirus, like the stuff I use.
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.480
For a limited time, save 60% on Webroot.
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.279
When you go to Webroot.com slash Lars.
00:07:57.600 --> 00:07:59.040
That's L-A-R-S.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:04.480
That is 60% off the regular price at Webroot W E B R O O T.
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.199
Webroot.com slash Lars.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.120
Glad to have you with me on a Tuesday.
00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:10.720
Always glad to take your calls.
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:16.720
If you want to join the best conversation in talk journalism, it's right here at 866-A Lars.
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.560
That's 866-439-5277.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.079
Send your emails to talk at LarsLarson.com.
00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.879
Check out my feed on Instagram, and yes, I do have a face for radio.
00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.320
And tell Alexa to play the Lars Larson show.
00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:07.759
Hey, welcome back to the Lars Larson Show.
00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:11.439
It's a pleasure to be with you, and I'm always glad to get to your phone calls and emails.
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:15.039
I want to ask you this, and I will admit I have a dog in the fight.
00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:19.280
Uh I have a ki I've had a concealed carry permit since about 1994.
00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:23.440
In fact, I have a couple of permits to cover a couple of different states.
00:00:23.519 --> 00:00:29.199
I'm not covered for every state in America, but I have a bias in favor of concealed carry permits.
00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:31.519
Well, okay, now you know my bias.
00:00:31.760 --> 00:00:41.759
San Jose, California wants almost sixteen hundred bucks for an ordinary citizen to be able to have a permit to do something the Second Amendment makes a right.
00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:47.759
And I thought we'd talk about that with John O'Connor, who's an experienced trial lawyer and the author of Postgate.
00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:49.280
John, welcome back.
00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:51.119
Hey, good to be with you.
00:00:51.439 --> 00:00:58.479
What is going on in San Jose that they want sixteen hundred bucks for somebody to be able to exercise their constitutional right?
00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:09.680
Well, you know, it it doesn't make sense, uh, but uh some of it is just a typical, I think, a tax grab, uh, you know, to get funding for the police.
00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:15.760
But what it does is it has the effect of denying people the right to carry firearms.
00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:23.280
Now, what it will do is if you're an if you're a guy that 1,600 bucks isn't much, okay, you can go go get your permit.
00:01:23.519 --> 00:01:33.760
Now, if you're less affluent, but you live in a tough neighborhood, you're kind of out of luck because the guys around you that aren't good guys, they won't care about the concealed carry permit.
00:01:33.840 --> 00:01:34.959
They'll violate the law.
00:01:35.120 --> 00:01:45.359
So it's the old saw that, you know, if if you know, if it's legal to carry guns, you know, only the if it's criminal to carry guns, only the criminals will have guns.
00:01:45.599 --> 00:01:47.519
So uh that's the problem.
00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:50.239
And uh in a nutshell, and it's just not a good thing.
00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:55.519
I think it's unconstitutional because it is too much of a burden on one's constitutional right.
00:01:56.079 --> 00:02:07.359
Well, in fact, John, am I wrong in seeing a comparison between this and poll taxes that were, you know, where you say, I have a constitutional right to vote in my state?
00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.000
You say, yeah, but we're gonna put a poll tax on that.
00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:14.319
And we're gonna make sure the tax is big enough that it might just keep you from voting.
00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:21.199
Now they did that uh in many cases, they were aiming it specifically at black voters uh in America historically.
00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:29.919
But didn't the courts and everybody else decide you can't charge somebody an exorbitant fee to exercise their constitutional rights?
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:31.840
Well, any fee.
00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:40.479
Uh the poll tax was really something that was really meant for southern blacks to disenfranchise them, and it didn't even need to be that high.
00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:46.800
Uh, but it kept people from voting because the poor people didn't have much money and the poor people were often black.
00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:54.560
So that's what happens, and it's a way of filtering out who gets what, and it's just it's not really part of our society.
00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:03.360
When you have a Second Amendment, the whole idea is you shouldn't uh, you know, uh uh condition the exercise of this right on paying money.
00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:12.719
Well, and in fact, uh I know that uh demographically, uh criminal or crimes tend to affect uh poor people more than they do rich people.
00:03:12.879 --> 00:03:17.759
I mean, there's a there's a lot more crime that's aimed at poor people than is aimed at rich people.
00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:44.159
And uh and so uh y you know, when you say who needs the protection the most, not that I think that should be a criteria for exercise of constitutional right, but if you say, who is this going to hurt when San Diego decides to charge more than New York, Boston, Chicago, or the District of Columbia, it's going to hurt poor people first and most, because as you pointed out, if you're well healed, you'll just say, oh, sixteen hundred bucks, yeah, I can afford that.
00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:46.159
I'm willing to pay that to carry a gun.
00:03:46.319 --> 00:03:53.199
The poor person who who may be hit by crime a whole lot worse than the affluent person, they don't have that money.
00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:54.800
Well, that's right.
00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:55.439
That's right.
00:03:55.599 --> 00:04:02.479
And think about the whole idea uh that you're gonna arrest somebody for trying to protect themselves by having a concealed weapon.
00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:04.000
That just isn't right.
00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:13.840
Uh and so uh, you know, it's it's something that really is is counterhelpful, if there's a word like that, counterhelpful.
00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:16.079
It just does not do anything.
00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:18.800
And I don't know what the rationale is of this is.
00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:25.439
Obviously, it takes some processing time, I suppose, to figure out if you're eligible for concealed carry.
00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:29.759
I suppose they want to find out, look through your records and that kind of stuff.
00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.439
But um, I'm not so sure it's worth sixteen hundred dollars.
00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:43.600
No, and in fact, we already pay for isn't NYX the national instant check system, the one that's run so we can all be background checked when we go to buy a firearm.
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:52.079
And I've had I've filled out that form 4473 at least a couple of dozen times over my life, uh, and they run the background check.
00:04:52.160 --> 00:05:00.720
Well, that system's already in place, and there's a modest fee that's charged uh by usually by the gun dealer uh to be able to run that instant check on you.
00:05:00.879 --> 00:05:02.560
Isn't that all they need to check?
00:05:02.720 --> 00:05:07.680
They don't need uh$1,000 worth of background check on somebody, do they?
00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.120
Well, bingo, uh I I think you're right, Lars.
00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:21.040
Uh, but uh the only thing I would say is that the the that the thought would be that there's a difference between a concealed weapon, concealed carry, and and just a carry.
00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:24.319
And uh I I think your point is the better point.
00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:39.040
I mean, I just still don't think uh uh obviously there's some process where supposedly you should be uh able to conceal your weapon, um, but still I think the sixteen hundred bucks is too much.
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:48.959
Well, and John, it may not be a legal argument, but I've always thought the the whole point of concealed carry is the bad guys don't know who among the good guys have a gun.
00:05:49.120 --> 00:06:14.560
And the fact that they're in doubt is is part of the strategy, is you say, when the bad guy doesn't know who it is that's gonna pull out a gun and kill them when they start to threaten people's lives illegally, then you we're better protected than if the bad guy can spot the pistol on everybody's hip and says, Okay, if I go to rob that bank, the first three people that are going down are the three customers carrying a pistol, right?
00:06:15.439 --> 00:06:16.480
Well, that's right.
00:06:16.639 --> 00:06:24.480
And you know, that's why places like Texas, people know better than just to willy-nilly assault somebody because you don't know who's who's packing.
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.319
And uh, you know, and and it really is, it's a deterrent.
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:29.680
And it's very well said, Lars.
00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:31.040
It's very well said.
00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:38.639
Uh, you know, we we we sometimes are so uh lack so much common sense in our laws, and this is a good example of it.
00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:39.680
Sadly so.
00:06:39.839 --> 00:06:41.439
Hey, John, thank you very much.
00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:43.680
We always appreciate you coming on the program.
00:06:44.480 --> 00:06:45.360
Good to talk to you.
00:06:46.000 --> 00:06:50.879
That is John O'Connor, who is an experienced trial lawyer and the author of Postgate.
00:06:51.040 --> 00:06:52.560
John, we appreciate the time.
00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:56.240
By the way, we all have to deal with computers these days.
00:06:56.399 --> 00:07:00.319
I've got them all around me in my studio, half a dozen of them anyway.
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:04.720
So are you sick like I am of dealing with a slow computer?
00:07:04.879 --> 00:07:17.439
Most people blame the device itself, but the real slowdown, it often comes from the heavy traditional antivirus programs, the ones that hog up all your storage and drag the speed of everything down.
00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:22.720
Webroot is a cloud-based antivirus engineered to stay out of your way.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:23.680
Out of my way.
00:07:23.839 --> 00:07:24.399
I love it.
00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:32.160
It takes up 33 times less space than its bulky competitors, and it scans my computer about six times faster.
00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:38.079
So instead of waiting around, you get instant powerful protection and you get it without all the lag.
00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:44.160
Whether you're working, browsing, or streaming, Webroot is the antivirus that works for you, not against you.
00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:50.959
Make the switch and discover the difference of truly fast modern antivirus, like the stuff I use.
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:54.480
For a limited time, save 60% on Webroot.
00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.279
When you go to Webroot.com slash Lars.
00:07:57.600 --> 00:07:59.040
That's L-A-R-S.
00:07:59.439 --> 00:08:04.480
That is 60% off the regular price at Webroot W E B R O O T.
00:08:04.959 --> 00:08:07.199
Webroot.com slash Lars.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:09.120
Glad to have you with me on a Tuesday.
00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:10.720
Always glad to take your calls.
00:08:10.879 --> 00:08:16.720
If you want to join the best conversation in talk journalism, it's right here at 866-A Lars.
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.560
That's 866-439-5277.
00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.079
Send your emails to talk at LarsLarson.com.
00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.879
Check out my feed on Instagram, and yes, I do have a face for radio.
00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:32.320
And tell Alexa to play the Lars Larson show.
