WEBVTT
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Ah, welcome back to the Lawrence Larson Show.
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I've got to confess, right at the front end of this discussion, I don't like the United Nations.
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:18.320
I don't think it is very valuable to the world in general, and I think it's very, very expensive for American taxpayers.
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:19.760
And yet right now the U.N.
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:26.800
is$8.7 billion short, and they're begging for cash while many of their bills simply go unpaid.
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:31.280
Should a single American tax dollar go to bail out the United Nations?
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:33.359
I thought we'd talk to David May about that.
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:39.679
David is research manager and a senior research analyst at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:41.359
David, welcome back to the program.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:43.759
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:44.799
Let's start with this.
00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:51.840
Would it make financial sense the United States taxpayers to give a single dime to the United Nations to bail them out?
00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:06.159
I think the issue is if we completely abandon the United Nations, then we cede ground to our enemies in the most consequential international organization.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:20.319
And so I I think it's really important what the administration has been doing, which is to focus on the corruption, focus on the redundancy and waste that they are guilty of, to focus on the elements in which the United Nations actually goes against U.S.
00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:20.799
interests.
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.719
And I think that's the most important part.
00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:33.920
But uh it's it's really dangerous, I think, to completely cut it off, to completely cut off our contributions, because then China will uh rise into that vacuum.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:39.359
Uh but I definitely am sympathetic to that viewpoint given how much waste, fraud, and abuse goes on there.
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:40.719
Okay, so tell me this.
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.519
How does China rise into that vacuum?
00:01:43.680 --> 00:02:02.000
If the United Nations, I mean, every time people talk to me about uh United Nations peacekeepers, I say, oh, you mean peacekeepers that can only be invited in when when the countries involved both agree to it, which means that what those peacekeepers do, tell me I'm wrong, is is not all that terribly valuable.
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:03.920
It doesn't change the situation much.
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:08.879
So what is it that China would jump into if we jumped out of the United Nations?
00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:10.960
Yeah, I think you're very right.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:16.560
On the peacekeeping issue, the peacekeeping budget is actually bigger than the UN regular budget.
00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:18.719
We spend more on that, and the U.S.
00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.120
proportion of peacekeeping is actually higher.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:26.159
Uh and the peacekeepers, they don't have a particularly strong record of uh effectiveness.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:40.639
They there have been many massacres, many atrocities that have occurred on their watch, and especially uh at least in the case with Israel, anytime uh Israel's enemies told the UN peacekeepers to leave, they did.
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:48.000
And with the peacekeepers that are stationed in Lebanon, they actually provide cover for the Hezbollah terrorist group.
00:02:48.159 --> 00:03:04.879
Uh, in terms of what or what China can do, China, what it has been doing already is uh when there's elections for leadership positions within uh within different bodies within the United Nations, they make sure that their candidates are the ones who get appointed.
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:23.520
They use their debt uh diplomacy, uh they have debt traps for many different developing nations, and they make sure that if those people want to continue receiving Chinese uh help and assistance, although it's uh you know, it comes with a lot of strings attached, uh, that they should vote for the Chinese official.
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:42.080
Uh and then also just uh what definitely what we saw with the uh the COVID uh response from the United Nations, it was just a complete whitewashing of China's role in that uh in that pandemic, uh, and it was done with uh the leadership uh that the Chinese approved of at the World Health Organization.
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:47.680
Well, and that's the part I really didn't understand, David, and I don't think I've ever received a satisfactory answer.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:56.400
But I tell people that January 14th, 2020, is a day I remember well because that was the day that the WHO put out the word.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:08.400
They said there is no sign at all that COVID is transmitted from person to person, which we now know was a lie, and I think they knew it was a lie at the time, and yet the WHO did that.
00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:13.759
They carried water for China, even though China was not the biggest contributor uh to the WHO.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:27.680
The United States was, I think, uh China was giving maybe fifty million dollars a year, and we were giving$400 million a year to the WHO, and yet the WHO carried water for China and have never forgiven them for that.
00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:31.600
So in this kind of case, why should we rescue the U.N.
00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:40.000
when they are this far in the ditch by their own actions, by their you know, their own waste, fraud, and abuse that they apparently have not fixed?
00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:47.439
Or are there signs that they've actually corrected the things that wasted so much money that left them so far upside down?
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:52.160
David, did I lose you?
00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:57.120
Let's check on David, because I think we lost our connection to his phone, but we can get it back.
00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.319
But I mean, that is one of the key questions I think you have got to ask yourself.
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:13.920
If you have got an organization that is openly antithetical to the United States of America, where they run things like the World Health Organization that is openly antagonistic to the United States, David, sorry about that lost connection.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:22.399
I don't know which end it dropped on, but but why should we bail them out and have they corrected the things that left them almost$9 billion in the hole?
00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:31.600
Yeah, so I mean that there's certain elements within the United Nations that they're uh trying to engage in certain types of reform.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.519
They had they have a UN80 initiative.
00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:45.839
They realized, I mean, it was this was it it was more a product of the fact that they are strapped for cash and people, the donor countries are reluctant to fork over that money that the United Nations needs.
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:52.480
They actually ran out of cash and had to dig into several different uh funds in order to pay out pay their bills.
00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.360
Um and and so this is a product of the pressure.
00:05:55.439 --> 00:06:09.600
So I think that the United States should keep the pressure on uh to force more uh you know budget cuts uh and also to work on uh issues within the United Nations where they're actually working against our interests.
00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:15.600
So there's a little bit of promise, but I I think that that uh we definitely need a lot more cuts.
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:21.040
And it's just there's so many examples of of UN corruption that need to be stamped out.
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.279
Well, so so what is it that they did?
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:33.839
Where were they spending money where they knew the money wasn't coming in, but they were spending it anyway, and why didn't they make changes to say if we're short of cash, we we've got to stop the spending?
00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.399
Don't don't isn't that what they have to do?
00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:49.439
Yeah, I I think it's a it's a new normal for them, uh, with uh the Trump administration and other countries being less uh willing to just hand over blank checks to the United Nations.
00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.399
And so they're dealing with this new reality.
00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.680
It also is a lot of it due to uh donor fatigue.
00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:07.279
There's too many things going on, and if you don't see the value in what the UN is providing, then uh then those countries are less inclined to donate.
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.680
But yes, they were they were spending money that they didn't have, and uh now they're paying for it.
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:36.720
And how much of that money were they spending on things like UNRWA, this this organization that basically paid the salaries of members of Hamas in Gaza, this specialty agency that was only to benefit the folks in Gaza when the uh UN already has an agency that's supposed to deal with people who are refugees, but instead they have this special deal where they got 30,000 members of Hamas on the payroll.
00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:47.600
Yeah, so UNRWA they UNRWA actually uh it derives its budget outside of the normal uh budget process within the United Nations.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.079
So it's not drawing from UN funds, but it's drawing from UN member countries.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:57.759
So those countries giving money to UNRWA, that's money that can't go to elsewhere for other causes.
00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:58.879
That's a good point.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:03.920
That is David May, research manager at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:04.639
Back in a moment.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.079
I'll get to your calls then.
00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:06.160
Ah, welcome back to the Lawrence Larson Show.
00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:11.199
I've got to confess, right at the front end of this discussion, I don't like the United Nations.
00:00:11.359 --> 00:00:18.320
I don't think it is very valuable to the world in general, and I think it's very, very expensive for American taxpayers.
00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:19.760
And yet right now the U.N.
00:00:20.000 --> 00:00:26.800
is$8.7 billion short, and they're begging for cash while many of their bills simply go unpaid.
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:31.280
Should a single American tax dollar go to bail out the United Nations?
00:00:31.440 --> 00:00:33.359
I thought we'd talk to David May about that.
00:00:33.600 --> 00:00:39.679
David is research manager and a senior research analyst at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:41.359
David, welcome back to the program.
00:00:42.719 --> 00:00:43.759
Thank you so much for having me.
00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:44.799
Let's start with this.
00:00:44.960 --> 00:00:51.840
Would it make financial sense the United States taxpayers to give a single dime to the United Nations to bail them out?
00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:06.159
I think the issue is if we completely abandon the United Nations, then we cede ground to our enemies in the most consequential international organization.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:20.319
And so I I think it's really important what the administration has been doing, which is to focus on the corruption, focus on the redundancy and waste that they are guilty of, to focus on the elements in which the United Nations actually goes against U.S.
00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:20.799
interests.
00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:22.719
And I think that's the most important part.
00:01:23.040 --> 00:01:33.920
But uh it's it's really dangerous, I think, to completely cut it off, to completely cut off our contributions, because then China will uh rise into that vacuum.
00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:39.359
Uh but I definitely am sympathetic to that viewpoint given how much waste, fraud, and abuse goes on there.
00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:40.719
Okay, so tell me this.
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:43.519
How does China rise into that vacuum?
00:01:43.680 --> 00:02:02.000
If the United Nations, I mean, every time people talk to me about uh United Nations peacekeepers, I say, oh, you mean peacekeepers that can only be invited in when when the countries involved both agree to it, which means that what those peacekeepers do, tell me I'm wrong, is is not all that terribly valuable.
00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:03.920
It doesn't change the situation much.
00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:08.879
So what is it that China would jump into if we jumped out of the United Nations?
00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:10.960
Yeah, I think you're very right.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:16.560
On the peacekeeping issue, the peacekeeping budget is actually bigger than the UN regular budget.
00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:18.719
We spend more on that, and the U.S.
00:02:18.879 --> 00:02:21.120
proportion of peacekeeping is actually higher.
00:02:21.280 --> 00:02:26.159
Uh and the peacekeepers, they don't have a particularly strong record of uh effectiveness.
00:02:26.319 --> 00:02:40.639
They there have been many massacres, many atrocities that have occurred on their watch, and especially uh at least in the case with Israel, anytime uh Israel's enemies told the UN peacekeepers to leave, they did.
00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:48.000
And with the peacekeepers that are stationed in Lebanon, they actually provide cover for the Hezbollah terrorist group.
00:02:48.159 --> 00:03:04.879
Uh, in terms of what or what China can do, China, what it has been doing already is uh when there's elections for leadership positions within uh within different bodies within the United Nations, they make sure that their candidates are the ones who get appointed.
00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:23.520
They use their debt uh diplomacy, uh they have debt traps for many different developing nations, and they make sure that if those people want to continue receiving Chinese uh help and assistance, although it's uh you know, it comes with a lot of strings attached, uh, that they should vote for the Chinese official.
00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:42.080
Uh and then also just uh what definitely what we saw with the uh the COVID uh response from the United Nations, it was just a complete whitewashing of China's role in that uh in that pandemic, uh, and it was done with uh the leadership uh that the Chinese approved of at the World Health Organization.
00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:47.680
Well, and that's the part I really didn't understand, David, and I don't think I've ever received a satisfactory answer.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:56.400
But I tell people that January 14th, 2020, is a day I remember well because that was the day that the WHO put out the word.
00:03:56.560 --> 00:04:08.400
They said there is no sign at all that COVID is transmitted from person to person, which we now know was a lie, and I think they knew it was a lie at the time, and yet the WHO did that.
00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:13.759
They carried water for China, even though China was not the biggest contributor uh to the WHO.
00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:27.680
The United States was, I think, uh China was giving maybe fifty million dollars a year, and we were giving$400 million a year to the WHO, and yet the WHO carried water for China and have never forgiven them for that.
00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:31.600
So in this kind of case, why should we rescue the U.N.
00:04:31.759 --> 00:04:40.000
when they are this far in the ditch by their own actions, by their you know, their own waste, fraud, and abuse that they apparently have not fixed?
00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:47.439
Or are there signs that they've actually corrected the things that wasted so much money that left them so far upside down?
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:52.160
David, did I lose you?
00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:57.120
Let's check on David, because I think we lost our connection to his phone, but we can get it back.
00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.319
But I mean, that is one of the key questions I think you have got to ask yourself.
00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:13.920
If you have got an organization that is openly antithetical to the United States of America, where they run things like the World Health Organization that is openly antagonistic to the United States, David, sorry about that lost connection.
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:22.399
I don't know which end it dropped on, but but why should we bail them out and have they corrected the things that left them almost$9 billion in the hole?
00:05:23.519 --> 00:05:31.600
Yeah, so I mean that there's certain elements within the United Nations that they're uh trying to engage in certain types of reform.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:33.519
They had they have a UN80 initiative.
00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:45.839
They realized, I mean, it was this was it it was more a product of the fact that they are strapped for cash and people, the donor countries are reluctant to fork over that money that the United Nations needs.
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:52.480
They actually ran out of cash and had to dig into several different uh funds in order to pay out pay their bills.
00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:55.360
Um and and so this is a product of the pressure.
00:05:55.439 --> 00:06:09.600
So I think that the United States should keep the pressure on uh to force more uh you know budget cuts uh and also to work on uh issues within the United Nations where they're actually working against our interests.
00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:15.600
So there's a little bit of promise, but I I think that that uh we definitely need a lot more cuts.
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:21.040
And it's just there's so many examples of of UN corruption that need to be stamped out.
00:06:21.360 --> 00:06:23.279
Well, so so what is it that they did?
00:06:23.439 --> 00:06:33.839
Where were they spending money where they knew the money wasn't coming in, but they were spending it anyway, and why didn't they make changes to say if we're short of cash, we we've got to stop the spending?
00:06:33.920 --> 00:06:36.399
Don't don't isn't that what they have to do?
00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:49.439
Yeah, I I think it's a it's a new normal for them, uh, with uh the Trump administration and other countries being less uh willing to just hand over blank checks to the United Nations.
00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:52.399
And so they're dealing with this new reality.
00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.680
It also is a lot of it due to uh donor fatigue.
00:06:55.759 --> 00:07:07.279
There's too many things going on, and if you don't see the value in what the UN is providing, then uh then those countries are less inclined to donate.
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:11.680
But yes, they were they were spending money that they didn't have, and uh now they're paying for it.
00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:36.720
And how much of that money were they spending on things like UNRWA, this this organization that basically paid the salaries of members of Hamas in Gaza, this specialty agency that was only to benefit the folks in Gaza when the uh UN already has an agency that's supposed to deal with people who are refugees, but instead they have this special deal where they got 30,000 members of Hamas on the payroll.
00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:47.600
Yeah, so UNRWA they UNRWA actually uh it derives its budget outside of the normal uh budget process within the United Nations.
00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:52.079
So it's not drawing from UN funds, but it's drawing from UN member countries.
00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:57.759
So those countries giving money to UNRWA, that's money that can't go to elsewhere for other causes.
00:07:58.160 --> 00:07:58.879
That's a good point.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:03.920
That is David May, research manager at the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:04.639
Back in a moment.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:06.079
I'll get to your calls then.
