Jacked Chan: Go for as long as you want. Yeah, that's good.
Jacob Herrmann: but we're just under, yeah, cool, awesome. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have Julian, I was about to call him Jack Chan, but he is also known as Jack Chan on the podcast today. Thanks for coming on, mate. I did say, I appreciate you coming on before. This is actually our first time meeting, you could potentially say. I'm not sure if I like the phrase, E-meet, but, ⁓ you know, we're gonna have a good chat today. Have listened to a podcast with Jack before, so I know a little bit about his origins, background story, but might dig into that a little bit as well. How's your day been going, Jack?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, good mate. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to talking about bodybuilding and training and everything else. But it's really good to meet you as well,
Jacob Herrmann: Thank you, brother. Yeah, it's really the thing that we love most in life, right? Bodybuilding. So we can talk for probably days about it. Mate, firstly, how many contest seasons have you done or maybe more broadly, how did bodybuilding start for you?
Jacked Chan: Yeah. I've done one contest prep season, so that will be two shows in the UK. So first show, this one, UK the FBA, first time is ⁓ down in Rugby, so that's in England. And then this one, the PCA Naturals, the first PCA Naturals in the UK. That was my second show. And then the third show was the WMBF and that's where I got my WMBF Pro card. And then...
Jacob Herrmann: Awesome.
Jacked Chan: Bodybuilding itself started... I wasn't into bodybuilding straight away. It was more into rugby and then training around rugby. I didn't do any weightlifting during my rugby days and then transitioned into bodybuilding very slowly, just because I was doing rehab work for rugby. ⁓ And then did around two or three years of proper training, then started to properly get into bodybuilding and eating on plan, five meals per day, getting the sleep good, getting the training good.
Jacob Herrmann: What was the switch to go from that first one to two years to really dialing up the effort and intensity towards that pursuit?
Jacked Chan: Yeah. There's more. in Hong Kong, so that's where I was at the time. So I'd come back to Hong Kong for summer, because I was in university at that time. ⁓ And you'd have people starting to compete in Hong Kong. So bodybuilding is actually not that big of a thing. Well, it wasn't back when I started. wasn't too big compared to how it is in where you are and in the UK as well. ⁓ So people were telling me, ⁓ you should try it because you might have, you do have potential. People were telling me I had potential. So I went ahead with it and then did an off season. with AJ Morris so we did ⁓ almost one year of an offseason and including prep until we stepped onto the stage and I just loved it. Just the entire process of know eating the same thing every single day, training every single day, doing being the best you can be every single day that's how I more or less got into it.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, man. That's awesome. you, I assume you're probably only what five, maybe six years of training under your belt now. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, six years of training. So pro debut next year, 2020. It's been a long, not too long to be fair, it's been two years. It's been a much needed two years because obviously I didn't expect to turn pro in such a quick amount of time. So taking another...
Jacob Herrmann: It's good progress, ⁓ yeah.
Jacked Chan: another two years off, just to really grow and be competitive when we step on the pro stage.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, well, I continually say to people, you if I go up against the pros, I'm going up against guys who have been training for at least 10 most probably on average 15 years. And, know, I pretty much have the exact same amount of time of training under my belt. And I'm like, it's having a little bit longer to put a bit more tissue on will make a massive difference in terms of pretty much the same, like six years.
Jacked Chan: you're trading for.
Jacob Herrmann: coming on my sixth year, I think, at the end of this year. yeah, like you look at where there was a bit of a team photo that was taken a couple of weeks ago when I was in Brisbane with the team and BK and I took our shirts off and I was like, damn, I'm still a bit of an arms reach away.
Jacked Chan: Mmm. And the maturity as well, like that doesn't just come, you know, it takes time. It doesn't come like that. it has to take, you have to be really patient and obviously train really hard and be patient with the entire process. People like to rush into these things and bodybuilding doesn't work that way. You know, you need to give it time, give yourself time in order to grow. Don't keep swapping things around. Just stick to one thing, progress it for a long period of time and you'll literally see progress. That's it's so simple, but people tend to overcomplicate.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, absolutely.
Jacked Chan: so much.
Jacob Herrmann: Couldn't have said it better. ⁓ You one thing as well that photos don't always show for these top level pros is their thickness, front to back. Like when you get to see them on the side, you're like, ⁓ okay. That's where that depth really makes a big difference. That shape can't hide when you see someone in person. And what shows you thinking of doing? Have you planned out a bit of a map or ones you'd like to tick off?
Jacked Chan: Probably, I'm looking to do some shows back in the UK as well. So I've obviously moved from the UK now because I've graduated and then back in Hong Kong. So probably do a couple of shows around Asia. Not sure which one yet, but I'm looking to do maybe at least three shows because I don't want to sit through a prep and do the one show. I want to do a good pro debut, maybe mess around in a couple different federations as well. there's an IFBB regional show in Hong Kong in next June or July so that's around the time I'll be competing as well so June, July time maybe even a bit of August as well so we'll just see what comes up when the schedule comes out but yeah UK shows I definitely want to go back to the UK and do a show or two maybe even Australia maybe even New Zealand as well whatever wherever's close wherever's convenient as well
Jacob Herrmann: Okay. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, I think we won't have a pro show by that next couple years. We might have one with WNBF, but we have ICN down here. There could be some pretty high level athletes that I may know of that are competing next year. So not sure what season they're doing. There may be more leaning towards that back end of the year. ⁓ And what's, what's attracting you back to the UK to compete?
Jacked Chan: Definitely more the atmosphere. like giving my shows there was so crazy. the production, the production for shows around Asia, in my opinion, is definitely up there. Like it beats the production of the shows in the UK. But when it comes to atmosphere and people, I think the UK just wins it all. just, I mean, first time stepping on stage and just hearing the crowd just roar. It's a different feeling, The atmosphere in the UK is just completely different when it comes to bodybuilding shows. Yeah, but it's getting better in Asia. In Asia, I know the WF Taiwan Pro Show, that's a pretty big show now. WF Hong Kong has been a very big show. I was a judge for that last year, this year. And yeah, that show is, the production's really good. The atmosphere, because bodybuilding is still a building thing in Hong Kong.
Jacob Herrmann: Well, well.
Jacked Chan: There's a lot more people doing it since Covid. So hopefully the atmosphere will also get better with it as well.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, unlike maybe other countries, they have superseded most ⁓ advancement in their production, but maybe the community is still just being developed a bit more. know, comparing it to the UK, their production's maybe a little bit lower, but the community and the roar of the crowd.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe something else.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, that'd be cool to experience. Definitely, you you could say in Australia, maybe that community aspect could be continued to be developed, but it'll get there. It'll just take some time.
Jacked Chan: If you got any big IFBB, is the IFBB quite big there as well in Australia?
Jacob Herrmann: ⁓ for the untested site.
Jacked Chan: for the testing.
Jacob Herrmann: It's first year was last year. This year they do have a pro qualifier in a similar time period that you're thinking about going to it. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Mm-hmm. I have to come back over then. I love the ferry line. I was in Perth and Sydney last year. I want to go to Melbourne and Brisbane as well. know bodybuilding in Melbourne is quite big. ⁓ I've got lot of followers from the ferry as well. So when I was there, people were asking me, are you going to come here? you going to come there? like, ⁓ no, I'm only here for a few days, but definitely want to go there. I know the atmosphere there is amazing as well.
Jacob Herrmann: Yes, their gyms are quite extravagant. Yeah, Melbourne's probably a bit more bodybuilding-esque. know maybe Gold Coast and Brisbane are pretty good as well, but I wouldn't say I've dipped my toe in all of those environments well enough to know how entrenched it is. Now man, what else is going on in Mr. Chan's life? ⁓ Do you coach? What'd you study? You said you graduated?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, so yeah, was gonna ⁓ do online coaching. ⁓ I was working in the gold industry for a couple months and then I quit because it just wasn't for me. Nine to five. ⁓ And it just wasn't what I wanted to do. Coaching is what I want to do as well. ⁓ So that is the main thing that I am doing now.
Jacob Herrmann: Well, what about what specifically were you doing in the gold industry? I'm kind of interested
Jacked Chan: ⁓ trading, some trading, just mainly sales as well. ⁓ But yeah, it was more something to do off the university and then like finding a job. And then I always knew I was gonna branch into... the gym industry. So we're gonna stick with that for now. Because there's nothing else I want to do other than that because it's what I love. It's amazing. You you help people. mean, like, it's such a good, such a good thing to do.
Jacob Herrmann: Hehehe. Yeah. Obviously, the aspiration of being Elon Musk with maybe the amount of money you would have accumulated from working in the gold industry wasn't enough to outweigh the side of helping people with coaching. So it's good to have another good influence in the space, man.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a good sacrifice. It's less about money, but I think you have to be able to do what you love and that's the only way it's going to be sustainable in the long run. If I work in another industry that I don't like... I'm not going to enjoy it and I'm not going to look forward to going into work whereas with this I can do what I love and spend every single second doing it with joy.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, absolutely. I say to my little brother, know, mate, if you wanted to be a bloody bus driver, you could make, you know, as much money as you want, as long as you find passion in it. There's always some sort of avenue to do well monetarily. And I think that's, know, people always get drawn to that. How do I monetize this? How do I earn as much as I can? And it's like, well, firstly, you need to be able to know you can do it in the long run. Like, what do we say about training? If it's not adherable, there's no point in doing it.
Jacked Chan: Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: because you're just going to fizzle out. So it's a very similar concept. Now, I know that you like to do a bit of travel. Is there anywhere else you'd like to dip your toe in other than Australia?
Jacked Chan: I've actually traveled quite a lot. mean I was recently in Thailand, literally last week. Vietnam before that. If I want to travel, probably... done pretty much done most of Asia, America, definitely America. That's something that I've always wanted to do ⁓ is go to America because I know it's like a different world there as well. And there's a lot of gyms there. I'm actually thinking about doing like a little gym tour with my mate. So we actually did a gym tour around the UK. So that was when I was four weeks out of my first comp. We traveled around the UK hitting different gyms. That's also when I met AJ as well at his gym.
Jacob Herrmann: good time.
Jacked Chan: back when he was training there. ⁓ But America seems to be pretty big with gyms as well. ⁓ anywhere in America is the next plan. It's just far. It's like a 15 hour flight. It's just really far. Australia is only 70 hours away. It's so close. Five hours, six hours away. ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, I think. Well, mate, come to Australia and try and travel somewhere. Like it's bloody 24 hours. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, definitely come back to Australia at some point.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, whenever we want to leave the country, we've got to plan two days of bloody travel until we get anywhere.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I love the UK as well, but the weather is just not for me. and the UK, have you been to the UK?
Jacob Herrmann: I have not yet.
Jacked Chan: It's nice now at this time because it's summer so everyone's out, people are always friendly, the weather's beautiful and that's usually when it's nice and then after that it's just crap weather for the rest of the year so it's one thing to avoid. But America is something on my bucket list because I've a lot of Asia, I've ⁓ not done Australia but I've been to Australia, obviously done the UK and Europe as well so America would be the next one. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: I like that. It's definitely, you sort of set it yourself, a different world altogether. Like me just picturing how big the supermarkets are and the types of foods that they eat and they have available and the whole structure of their society is very different. ⁓ coming off the back of your first season, what was the plan afterwards in terms of that, where to improve and did your mindset about bodybuilding shift in any way?
Jacked Chan: I only loved it more for that mindset so that's a good thing. You tend to see people... who usually have like a poor experience with prep who, you know, suffered through prep, done, had to do loads of cardio every single day, felt like crap every single day. They tend to usually, you know, fall out of love with it or never do it again. Whereas for me, it was the other way around. Like I only wanted to get back on stage. Like even last year I was dying to get back on stage. And then improvement wise, was a posterior chain, which we continued to improve. And then mainly the chest as well. So I think that's definitely being done at this point. I mean, I've been gaining for literally, I think 60 weeks now. So I've been gaining things for 60 weeks. So we're going to die it down in July. So end of, or mid of July or end of July. And then, yeah, just pre-prep and then start prep next year. Yeah. The end of this year.
Jacob Herrmann: You'll have to diet through Christmas most likely,
Jacked Chan: That's fine. I'm honestly so in love with this process that I hate going offline. I just love eating my own meals because they taste fine to me. And I've got families like, oh, how do you eat that every single day? then I let them try it. I let them try it sometimes and they're like, oh, it actually tastes fine. If you, it tastes good enough for me to stick to it throughout the year. You know, I can have an off plan once a week. ⁓ Christmas, fine. I mean, I can eat, you know, off plans anytime I want. So, you know, Christmas isn't going to stop me from winning my next show.
Jacob Herrmann: No, I agree. was, always have, well, I personally had a couple of family members that just never, never got it. They could never see that drive or the pursuit of what that end goal was. And it was always the same, same questions. I was like, oh, you sure you don't want any of this? And it's like, no, it's okay. I'm content. I'm good.
Jacked Chan: Whenever I go to a family dinner, because we have, I've got a big family, so we have really big family dinners and all of them though I'm a bodybuilder, they're always asking like, are you allowed to have a cheat day today? Did you bring your meals? Are you eating this? Are you eating that? It's just always the same questions every single time. It's been like that for years, it never changes.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm always like, well, I can do whatever I want. It's up to what I choose to do. And that's what I'll do. Like I can literally do whatever I want. If I want to stick to my plan, I will. ⁓ It kind of segues into a good question. Like what is your approach to nutrition? So have you just been on your meal plan ever since you came off prep or did you have a bit of a phase where you will add a bit of...
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: flexibility or less rigidity.
Jacked Chan: ⁓ It was more, well post prep, which was a pretty bad experience for me and you'll probably hear me talk about this in every single podcast I've done after it. That was a bit messy. So that was more... Yes, being on plan, but also enjoying food, maybe a little bit too much. ⁓ but then ever since then, it was always just stuck to the meal plan. ⁓ when I go on holiday, then I'll be very, very flexible. won't attend to, you know, just end up losing a bit of weight rather than gaining the weight because I've walked so much and I'm still, I'm still training. I'm still getting my cardio done on my rest days. so yeah, mainly meal plan, but I think a good thing to do to learn from me is. well is to be able to be more flexible as well. I had dinner with Eric Helms, Dr. Eric Helms, a couple weeks ago and he has obviously done dozens of preps. He's done loads of seasons and he can just, he'll go out and have dinner and be in prep because he's just that experienced and that's something that I want as well. know, he, that's... People always say like, ⁓ being good bodybuilders, sticking to your meal plan, sticking to this, doing this 100%. But then you get people like him, who's also a very good bodybuilder who can just, well, obviously he's very, very smart as well. he just knows what he's eating. Yeah, but he's Dr. Eric Hills. Like he's just more experienced. He's just a guy who just knows what...
Jacob Herrmann: I'd say you're intelligent too, mate. Don't dumb yourself down.
Jacked Chan: to eat, do you know what mean? He's just so flexible with his stuff. He came over for a week and he was just so smart with it, with everything, like the entire bodybuilding thing. We had dinner for two, three hours and I just sat there and just listened to the guy just talk. ⁓ And yeah, that's definitely a day to remember as well. But yeah, that's one thing. I want to be able to learn to be a bit more flexible. ⁓ Maybe not so much in prep. In prep I like things how they are. ⁓ But in general, yeah, I just stick to the meal plan, five meals per day, one off plan per week if I want it. It's more for family once you go out for dinner than we'll go out for dinner.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, okay, cool. I mean, Eric is really the other end of the spectrum in terms of how flexible versus how rigid someone were to be, but how you incorporating a bit more flexibility, you sort of actively trying to sharpen that sword.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah, not like I usually do stick to the meal plan, but occasionally, like I'll change out some food sources just to be, sometimes I get really bored of my foods. mean, I've been eating the same thing for a couple of years now. I'll occasionally swap out something else for this, another fat source, another carb source. So I guess in that way, I'm getting better with that. ⁓ But if I go out and I to estimate food, then I hate it so much because I just don't know what I'm putting in my body. And I'm bad at it guys who just, need it 100%. Yeah. Which I don't know if it's good or bad thing because like... ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: I think I Look, it's a good question, right? You know, should I lean into maybe what I like doing more or go this down this other route? And I think you've got to lean into it when you need to. So you know that you just like sticking to the plan. ⁓ I personally am quite similar, but post-com, I just, I needed to shift the goalpost a little bit. It's like maybe 15 weeks afterwards. So sort of got through that.
Jacked Chan: Mm-hmm. ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: the first phase, ⁓ you know, I've only just recently gone back onto weighing every or tracking everything to the gram because it just wasn't enticing to me. So I set the, I reset the goalpost to making sure I stay within, you know, this body range target. ⁓ But I had all my fundamentals in place. I was still getting, you know, enough fruit, enough veg. ⁓ my protein, I was pretty much eating the same things most days, but if mom made some scones, I'd have some scones. And if my weight trickled up by 300 grams more than what it should be, I just ate a little bit less the next day. It was kind of insightful. It was like, ⁓ cool, I can do this without necessarily having everything weighed out and tracking everything like I would previously.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. That would throw me off. It's more if I go on holiday.
Jacob Herrmann: It did to me too, mate. Like it took me a farewell to get to that point. I was like, okay, I can relax.
Jacked Chan: Or like when I go on holiday then I'll relax. If I'm in the deficit when I'm on holiday then I'll book an Airbnb just for the kitchen and I'll cook. meal prep. I did that in Japan, did that in Indonesia and Bali when I was in my deficit. ⁓ But now I'm more just eating off protein, know, continue to get enough water, fruit, veg, your training, you're moving around. So ⁓ yeah, that's good enough for me, whenever I go on holiday at least.
Jacob Herrmann: Hmm. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, really rinse because when prep starts like I'm not gonna like that's not gonna happen When prep starts, it's just gonna be everything the same every single day
Jacob Herrmann: it makes it easier. And I think a lot of people underestimate how much that impacts your food focus as example. ⁓ If you're 15 weeks out and you're struggling with food focus already, it's like, damn, like what's going on? Let's have a look into the situation a little bit more. It's probably more than just tracking that's going into that, but it's one element.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. And that's one thing about what you asked improvements for the next prep is reduce should focus for the next prep as well. So stop scrolling on Instagram reels whenever I eat one of the five meals per day, just looking at food stuff. That's one thing as well as just to get rid of that completely. Just filter out.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Could you go into that a little bit more and how it sort of started and how that made you feel through the prep as well?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, I mean, everyone does it, but it's more in the long run post prep. It's more in long run post prep where, you know...
Jacob Herrmann: Do they though, Julien?
Jacked Chan: when you're more, the more food focus you are, the more likely it's not going to run well when you do your post-show phase. mainly that. you know, look, I was literally looking at my phone, scrolling through Instagram Reels and I had YouTube on looking at some, some guy eat a mukbang or something. And I'd be having my meal just like that. So yeah, that's one thing I don't want again. a bit of food focus will happen obviously, but I think I'm way, more prepared for this prep, like the coming prep. ⁓ So that's one thing to learn as well.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, it's definitely, ⁓ people just don't appreciate how much of it, in fact, it truly has. I was good through my contest prep, but afterwards, before I was on my way to Thailand, I was not so good. I was, yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's always afterwards. Like, that's the hardest part. It's not prep itself. Prep itself is fine. ⁓ It's always when you don't have that goal there, when your hunger hormones are all over the place and you just want to eat everything in sight. I think winning as well made it worse because it was more rewarding myself and then not seeing my family for an entire year. So I just want to eat food with them and then it turned into a binge. And then the cycle of eating crap and then not following my meal plan the next day and cutting food and then ended up restricting myself more. and then that leads to an even bigger binge. So yeah, that's one thing to keep in mind for myself for my next prep.
Jacob Herrmann: I think you'll do much better man by the sounds of it you've understand the things you need to control. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you know this too, like, you know, you do need to get food back into the system to get body fat back up, but it needs to be like controlled to some extent.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, yeah, it's not gonna happen again, tell you that, there's no way. Yeah, yeah. Because it was like one cookie turned into two cookies and then I'd go upstairs and I'd just run back down and get one more. And I would get two more and I would come back up. Yeah, it wasn't not healthy.
Jacob Herrmann: How would you describe the feeling?
Jacked Chan: shit. It was probably, you just feel so down all the time because you just feel guilty. And the guiltier you feel, the more you want to eat because you're just unhappy. ⁓ So yeah, so I'll tell you the first couple of days, I gained like 15 kilos within like a week. Yeah, within a week. That was good.
Jacob Herrmann: in the first couple of days or first week. That's hefty.
Jacked Chan: It was nine kilos within three days. Yeah, so I was like, this is my checking spot right in this room as well. So I'd look at my checking, I can't send this to AJ because my legs were like peeled. My legs were still peeled. You look at the upper body, you're like, yeah, this guy's been.
Jacob Herrmann: Jeez. Yeah, that's common.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, so it definitely won't be happening. ⁓ And then we did our first diet post prep, which I got down pretty lean. got, I was two kilos above ⁓ my stage weight, two or three kilos above my stage weight. So I still got pretty lean and I reversed so well. ⁓ Yeah, obviously I was hungry, but it wasn't like, you know, that post show thing where it's just, yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Was that intentional to get that line?
Jacked Chan: ⁓ Yeah, it was intentional to get that lean. Just to see the improvements I've made as well and to also prove to myself that I wouldn't do it again. So yeah, I did that and then did that through two holidays as well. yeah, it turned out pretty good. So I'm pretty confident for the next prep that it won't happen again and it's going to go a whole lot smoother.
Jacob Herrmann: I personally remember just feeling like you could never be hungry. ⁓ sorry, full. You could never be full. You were just, you know, your stomach's starting to protrude out from, you know, from your chest. It's coming out as if you had a child in there and you're like, God damn, I could eat another, you know, whole round of what I just had.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy honestly. It's like there's like a hole in your stomach and it's just never ending. It's just food can just come in and yeah, it's crazy.
Jacob Herrmann: won't be happening again. So.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, I reckon if I'd done that, if I do a post-show phase and then go do like a food challenge, that would be so easy. Like, just... I mean, I would never do that, but I'm saying like, if I did a food challenge, like a really big food challenge after a comp, after a prep, it'd be the easiest thing ever. How about that?
Jacob Herrmann: like during a post-comp phase doing a food challenge? Yeah. Okay, so that this is you saying I've got my shit together now. Yeah, okay. I see. I mean, we can put your money where your mouth is and see what happens, but I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't recommend it.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. That's a lot of work.
Jacob Herrmann: Now you said man that you need to make some improvements to your posterior. Was that namely hamstrings, glutes and back or more just lower body?
Jacked Chan: ⁓ Definitely not the lower body anymore. Um, glutes, hamstrings. mean, again, like I said earlier, you can never have too big of legs, but it's more the upper part of my back, more, more of the thickness side of things. Um, so doing your heavy rows, heavy hinge movements. Um, I also think it's a genetic thing. So we've got Asians, big legs on the front, but then the back is always something that just lacks for some reason. Um, so. Trying to defy that and then you know really bring up the back which we have done in the in the last year, so The main focus right now is the chest so really just looking to Be as accurate as possible with this training and I'm bringing up that chest and you know, I'll ⁓ be with my friends and be like, ⁓ your chest looks bigger Just from like seeing me in real life as well. So it's clearly working ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: to do science.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, it is positive science.
Jacob Herrmann: Have you done anything maybe slightly different to what you were doing before or just sticking to the basics and getting some more time under the graph?
Jacked Chan: a whole lot more volume for the chest. With the posterior, it's been the same. So just having the entire posterior session ⁓ on one of the days. And then with the chest training since coming off stage, it's adding more volume and yeah, just really... demolishing the chest on my push days and being a whole lot more accurate with training. I feel like my training has improved a whole lot more ⁓ in terms of progression and just being accurate with things. I do a lot less partials now. I do a lot less force reps now just to standardize things a bit more. ⁓ ⁓ trained by JP so I like I love his training style like more hardcore but then he also doesn't really do partials he doesn't really do go for the fifth well he goes for fifth I do go for 50-50 reps like occasionally I'll do a partial here and there but definitely a whole lot less than than before like I would do a single arm row before and then or a or a dumbbell fly or a chest fly I did like three partials at the end of every single set. Now, not so much anymore. Maybe at the end of the last set, but not so much. Not as much, yeah. So.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. You're probably also getting more out of your normal sets that you're more accurate now too. it's like, imagine adding those parcels on top of that. You'd be like, ⁓ my God, this is just a lot of, a lot of recovery demand.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, yeah. I definitely get a whole lot more stimulus out of each set now, because I'm just a whole lot more accurate with my training. it's so easy to, for example, if you're like a Smith Machine Press, a flat Smith Machine Press, it's so easy for you to use your front delt and no chest at all. So now it's, you know, really focusing on just... Obviously the front delt is still going to work, but really focusing on pressing with the chest itself and not bouncing out the bottom and stuff like that.
Jacob Herrmann: Was your front dealt overpowering in the past?
Jacked Chan: ⁓ No, it's just that my chest is weaker and then my like, doubt here, yeah, like this is way bigger than my chest here. So yeah, I guess you could say yeah. But like you'll see in my stage shots as well, like my doubts are just so much bigger than my chest.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah.
Jacked Chan: So really, I'm confident that we've really improved the chest ⁓ for the next time at second stage.
Jacob Herrmann: I'm excited to see the package. a little question about, you know, what you think, ⁓ brought you from, let's say an amateur athlete or, or trainee to where you are now. ⁓ I think, I think a lot of people get attached to trying to turn pro when maybe they should try and be a pro worthy athlete, someone who lives in breeze it. And you might never turn pro, but that maybe is a better pursuit to
Jacked Chan: Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: to strive for, would you agree?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, I think it's more, don't chase the pro status. It's more just be the best you can every single day and improve across every single area that you can control. Your training, your nutrition, your recovery, improve, know, just maximize as much as you can out of all those areas that you can control. And then, you know, because you can get on protocol so easy now, you just get handed out. So in my opinion, it doesn't actually mean much anymore. Um, but what matters is that, you you try, you know, you put everything into your prep, put everything into your off season, you know, bodybuilding is a throughout the year sport you're looking to improve every single day. The off season is pretty much the only time where you will grow. So, you know, really put everything into. every single day when it comes to bodybuilding and in general as well. Don't hard-force things, know, hit your meals, hit your water, do everything you can in order to grow for the stage rather than chasing pro status. Which is something I tell my clients as well, like, they're like, oh, I want to get my pro card. it's just like, then you need to do the work. They won't check in, they won't check in, won't communicate. And it's just like, you you want to be a pro but then you won't act like a pro before you even turn like a pro before you turn into a pro so that's one thing I would say.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, well, what do you think would happen in a situation where maybe someone's qualities and the way they conducted a prep, for example, was quite below a pro-worthy standard, but then they won a pro card? How do you think that would maybe influence the psychology of the athlete, for the better or worse?
Jacked Chan: Well, mean, it depends how the athlete, like, if they realize that they've, not that they don't deserve it, but if they realize they could have put... a lot more work in, then that's just what they will do. But then if they think, ⁓ I can just half-ass this and still get a pro card, then when it comes to pro shows, you're not going to win because you're still going to half-ass things. You're still going to not hand in your check-in on time or miss a meal, things like that. ⁓ I think it just depends how that person views themselves when it comes to how much work they put in. if that makes sense.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it can go both ways. But for some people, it unfortunately goes ⁓ the latter. And that's not always the best case for a long term career. ⁓ okay. Now, when you think about the people that had the biggest influence on your career, I know you mentioned Jordan Peters, is there anyone else that you sort of really just dove into their style, their content to help you progress as an athlete?
Jacked Chan: Well, obviously AJ, who's my coach. ⁓ He's done a lot for natural bodybuilding, a lot for me as someone who needs Instagram as well in order to ⁓ have clients. yeah, Adrian Morris is someone I would definitely mention, like I mention him every single time. His training style, the way he works, his work ethic, he's an individual who doesn't take a single day off. ⁓ himself as well. He'll do everything in his power in order to be the best athlete regardless of whatever genetics he has. ⁓ yeah, him, Jordan Peters of course, he's more like, there's a quote that he says is, do not fucking miss. I'm not sure if I can swear but DNFM is what he stands by, ⁓ which is what I really like as well. ⁓ Yeah, just looking at his training on Instagram, well, until he was banned. Banned again.
Jacob Herrmann: Has he been bad recently? So I haven't seen any posts.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, he's been banned fully this time, don't know why, but he got suspended last time, lost his account because he was talking about peptides I think, and then he said, if he gets banned another time he's never coming back. So I don't think he's coming back. He doesn't care anyways.
Jacob Herrmann: Wow. ⁓ okay. Body Q &As, mate.
Jacked Chan: The only reason why he uses Instagram is to educate people like me, or people who want to compete or be the best version of themselves. So yeah, those two guys I would definitely say are my biggest ⁓ inspirations when it comes to the whole bodybuilding thing. I'm sure there's a whole lot more, but from the top of my head, definitely AJ.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, they've had a massive, AJ's had a massive influence on natural bodybuilding internationally or worldwide, excuse the pun. ⁓ And I definitely like relate to Jordan as well. Just that animalistic fucking mentality. Yes, we can swear on here, Jolene, it doesn't matter.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, a little bright. He's crazy, it's like when I met him in real life, he's my height so he's five sixes. I'll show you a photo of him. then he's like three, like you'll put your arm around his neck and it'll be up here because his neck is just so large that it just feels like you're like standing next to someone taller.
Jacob Herrmann: Holy smokes. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: But yeah, he's a very, very large guy, mate. It was insane to meet him. Yeah, he's, there he is. Look that. He's just so wide there. Yeah, very, very, yeah, very large guy. Yeah, it's crazy. I saw him train as well. has this guy that walks around with him to put his plates away. He pays him, he pays him. he, he,
Jacob Herrmann: The definition of density. I know, like a training partner, hey.
Jacked Chan: He can't, you know, on the Atlantis hack, which is already a light hack, I would say, you know, he has to load like 20 plates per side. you know, being his size, I mean, his weight, he's not, he's not doing that. You know, he's, yes, has someone to do that for him, which is pretty hilarious. You see it real life, you're like, what the heck? But yeah, it was pretty cool meeting him as well. He came up. He actually came up to us because he thought we were visiting from... from Hong Kong, but we obviously lived in the UK. He came up to us and said hi and then, yeah, eventually he just sponsored me. So I'm sponsored by Train by JP, which is pretty cool. You one of the first natural bodybuilding athletes. So AJ and I got sponsored at the same time. And then now he's getting quite a lot of naturals on board now. So it's pretty cool though. Again, getting sponsored by Train by JP, not very common.
Jacob Herrmann: Hell yeah man.
Jacked Chan: thing. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: No, ⁓ absolutely, it would have been quite surreal. And I assume that just came out out of the blue, like with not real much effort on your end apart from what you do do on social media.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he just left me and then I was like, yeah, I couldn't believe it. That's right.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, it's also good for natural bodybuilding space too, right? Like it to earn money. You know, you
Jacked Chan: Yeah, it's good for his business as well. It's very smart for him to, you know, finally branch out into the natural side of things. And I'm sure it's paid off completely. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know in the UK you guys have a pretty strong. scene, is a good reason to as wise probably ⁓ moved down that route. But yeah, massive influence. ⁓ And then AJ as well, like I was saying before, he's been doing awesome stuff. So if anyone hasn't checked him out, they should. I don't know, are you a member of his ⁓ paid? Yeah. How's that been going? Cause I know he's released, I haven't been on there for a bit, but I know he's released some extra educational stuff and.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's been, I think, two more new courses which I've already done. a whole lot of education, know, there's forums and then the MBW athletes are every single day, they do their own logs, off to questions. ⁓ so it's definitely worth, I mean, only like five pounds, I think, or 10 pounds. ⁓ so I don't even think about it. Like it's a very cheap subscription. ⁓ and then, you know, the value you get from it and the information you get from it, it's worth way more than whatever you pay. yeah, definitely.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Are you, you might think this is a bit of a side tangent, but are you planning on staying a natural athlete for your career?
Jacked Chan: to. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I mean, I've always seen... thought about the enhanced side of things, ⁓ but there's no way I'm doing that because I just love representing natural bodybuilding. ⁓ I've always been more into natural bodybuilding than the enhanced side of things. think more recently I've gotten more into the, you know, watching enhanced shows and looking at, you know, bodybuilding pages where they talk about the Olympia and stuff and the IFBB. But for me, natural bodybuilding is something that I enjoy watching. more than enhanced bodybuilding. But that's like my own preference. Some people might think it's stupid, but I just prefer natural bodybuilding itself. ⁓ So yeah, definitely worth just staying natural. I want to be able to make as much progress as possible without using anything, any PEDs, which I'm not against. I ⁓ respect people who do it, who have the goal to step on the Olympia stage, but that's not my own goal. So my own goal, get WMBF World Champ, and then we'll talk about another goal later on when it's... Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Hell yeah ⁓
Jacked Chan: But a long way to go because you've seen the standard of bodybuilders. yeah, again, with muscle maturity and the training experience that they have, it will be a long, long, long way to go. But it's definitely something that I will box off at some point in this life, for sure.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. it doesn't sound like you're be lining up for a Worlds appearance next year. This will probably be very long contest prep if you do that. okay. Do you know? Yeah. Well, you're have to mate if you're gonna get that world title.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Maybe one day though. It has to happen one day. Yeah, it's gonna happen. But next year, Not something in my sight at this point. If it lines up, then yes. And if the US government gives me my visa, then hell yeah. I'd do It's so hard for me. I've been rejected. I was meant to go to the US this month ⁓ and they didn't give it to me. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Is it hard for you guys? Really? Wow, would you say that's just due to the fact you're coming from Hong Kong?
Jacked Chan: It's so, I think, ⁓ Yeah, mean I'm not going into politics but I know their government was like kicking people out from Hong Kong from the US so I don't really know the whole thing about it but yeah I got rejected for getting my visa this year so
Jacob Herrmann: Not easy. I... Okay, yeah.
Jacked Chan: But anywhere else I can go, because I have a Hong Kong passport, I can go to the UK without a visa, go to Australia without a visa, is fine, except the US, which is annoying. Yeah. Yeah, I know.
Jacob Herrmann: God bless America. Well, look, going back to a bit of worlds, I'll be catching up with Dirk and I'd love to sort of compare myself against that son of a gun. And also one of our own, Nathan Wallace, who he came third against Oscar and Babakar in 24. So just, you know what it... You just want to size yourself up and see how far away you actually are.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, you want to go next. mean, people like Dirk who... He's gonna be... He's always peeled. It's crazy. mean, it's His physique is just so... So bubbly as well. He's someone I want to meet as well. I know he lives out in Thailand. But... Yeah, I want to compare... I don't... I don't really like comparing myself, but I do want to see... what I look like next to him as well. Because I know he's ⁓ probably like my height as well or something like that. So we would technically be in the same weight category I think. ⁓ Same category. And then you get people like Oscar, the professor who's, yeah, he already looks peeled. I already see updates on his Instagram. That guy is just insane.
Jacob Herrmann: Ahem. Yeah, a freak. I don't know how he's gonna look like. I want him to hold up the quality of his physique, but he's doing a long contest prep. Like, I think he's doing some early shows.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah, and his training is extremely random as well. It's like the complete opposite of what I would do. If I recall, he'll just go into the gym, not log book anything, and he'll just train. He'll just do whatever he wants. But then when he does it, he'll be putting like seven plates on the Cybex Smith squat and repping that. repping that for like three, four sets. It's just like, how the heck do you do that? Yeah, it's crazy.
Jacob Herrmann: Look at guys like Brian DeCosta, like massive workouts, super strong. I've seen only a few clips of Babacar train, but I'd say it's probably quite similar to the way how relaxed it is compared to maybe how others do it.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. He looks like he's doing powerlifting. Like he'll wear a powerlifting... ⁓ What do you call that? Like suit? A powerlifting suit, I think? And then a powerlifting belt and then he'll just do that. And then... It's crazy, Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah, well hopefully they get a matchup again this year. Should be cool. I Nathan's going, so ⁓ might be third again, Nathan, but.
Jacked Chan: When are you competing?
Jacob Herrmann: The plan is 28
Jacked Chan: Okay, so when is it, sorry, when was it you lost completed again?
Jacob Herrmann: ⁓ just end of last year
Jacked Chan: Okay, I know that's okay, nice. So another bit of time until it's gonna be it again. Nice.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, yeah. The goal would be get a bit leaner. I think there's just a little bit more with a bit more muscle, I'll be able to do that a bit easier or at least appear that way. And then be a good three to four kilos heavier would be, I think pretty good. So again, I'm like similar. haven't, I haven't dieted as of yet since the show. I wanna compare those photos because Man, that fat just goes straight to the fucking midsection.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, the old hillbilly section. It's a bit a mind-boggling bit, that's just the reality of what you look like, contest prep, like post prep. ⁓ I'm sure you'll make a whole lot more improvements, especially if you're competing in 28 as well. ⁓ Nail everything you can, and you'll be sweet.
Jacob Herrmann: No, man, I'm loving train at the moment. I sort of, ⁓ I was just writing up a post this morning. I, I don't know about you, but I go back and watch the old world, ⁓ YouTube, YouTube clips. Like I was watching the Boston worlds. You you mentioned, we mentioned, Dirk, he was up there, peeled. had, ⁓ Jeff Alberts was up there. ⁓ I think there was a German guy. Like that was a good, super competitive lineup.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: And that whole video is 45 minutes long. And those guys would be imposed for at least 25 minutes nonstop, which is insane.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, that's one thing to never underestimate as well, it's like the posing aspect of things. Which is a lot.
Jacob Herrmann: I think they take it as a bit of like a chest, a badge of honor at Worlds. They're like, yeah, you know, this is Worlds. You get posed harder than anywhere else.
Jacked Chan: WBF like to put you up for a long time on stage, which I love, which is good. You don't go through 30 week contest prep and get looked at once. Even if it's obvious, get another couple rounds in at least. That's what they like to do at the...
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, what are you there for?
Jacked Chan: UKDFB, I think the IMBA, PNBA, I know one of the world's shows, they just had the athletes up. and people were travelling internationally to come for the show. Did one round for so many categories and then finished. Imagine travelling that long, going through that long of prep at a world show as well. And then doing one round of mandatries and then kicking everyone off stage. I would not be happy with that.
Jacob Herrmann: No, that'd be super rough. You even if it's clear cut, let's give the people a bit of value here, run them through a few rounds. ⁓ It's not like it's the Olympia. ⁓ Yeah, that would be super rough. Yeah. Mate, well, unless there's anything you want to discuss or you want to put out there. ⁓
Jacked Chan: No, you very much for having me, mate. Appreciate it. Very good chat. ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: appreciate it Yeah, let me know if you ever come down to Sydney again or Oz. ⁓ Yeah, I'm looking to do like a few cool things here for the community. So if you're ever in ⁓ a close proximity to what I'm doing, we'll get you down and get you involved.
Jacked Chan: percent.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. If you train today or on the cards. What's on the push day? Let's go straight to the chicken titties man ⁓ Jack, appreciate you, mate. Look forward to catching up with them, we do. And thanks for coming on.
Jacob Herrmann: but we're just under, yeah, cool, awesome. All right, ladies and gentlemen, we have Julian, I was about to call him Jack Chan, but he is also known as Jack Chan on the podcast today. Thanks for coming on, mate. I did say, I appreciate you coming on before. This is actually our first time meeting, you could potentially say. I'm not sure if I like the phrase, E-meet, but, ⁓ you know, we're gonna have a good chat today. Have listened to a podcast with Jack before, so I know a little bit about his origins, background story, but might dig into that a little bit as well. How's your day been going, Jack?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, good mate. Thanks for having me. Looking forward to talking about bodybuilding and training and everything else. But it's really good to meet you as well,
Jacob Herrmann: Thank you, brother. Yeah, it's really the thing that we love most in life, right? Bodybuilding. So we can talk for probably days about it. Mate, firstly, how many contest seasons have you done or maybe more broadly, how did bodybuilding start for you?
Jacked Chan: Yeah. I've done one contest prep season, so that will be two shows in the UK. So first show, this one, UK the FBA, first time is ⁓ down in Rugby, so that's in England. And then this one, the PCA Naturals, the first PCA Naturals in the UK. That was my second show. And then the third show was the WMBF and that's where I got my WMBF Pro card. And then...
Jacob Herrmann: Awesome.
Jacked Chan: Bodybuilding itself started... I wasn't into bodybuilding straight away. It was more into rugby and then training around rugby. I didn't do any weightlifting during my rugby days and then transitioned into bodybuilding very slowly, just because I was doing rehab work for rugby. ⁓ And then did around two or three years of proper training, then started to properly get into bodybuilding and eating on plan, five meals per day, getting the sleep good, getting the training good.
Jacob Herrmann: What was the switch to go from that first one to two years to really dialing up the effort and intensity towards that pursuit?
Jacked Chan: Yeah. There's more. in Hong Kong, so that's where I was at the time. So I'd come back to Hong Kong for summer, because I was in university at that time. ⁓ And you'd have people starting to compete in Hong Kong. So bodybuilding is actually not that big of a thing. Well, it wasn't back when I started. wasn't too big compared to how it is in where you are and in the UK as well. ⁓ So people were telling me, ⁓ you should try it because you might have, you do have potential. People were telling me I had potential. So I went ahead with it and then did an off season. with AJ Morris so we did ⁓ almost one year of an offseason and including prep until we stepped onto the stage and I just loved it. Just the entire process of know eating the same thing every single day, training every single day, doing being the best you can be every single day that's how I more or less got into it.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, man. That's awesome. you, I assume you're probably only what five, maybe six years of training under your belt now. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, six years of training. So pro debut next year, 2020. It's been a long, not too long to be fair, it's been two years. It's been a much needed two years because obviously I didn't expect to turn pro in such a quick amount of time. So taking another...
Jacob Herrmann: It's good progress, ⁓ yeah.
Jacked Chan: another two years off, just to really grow and be competitive when we step on the pro stage.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, well, I continually say to people, you if I go up against the pros, I'm going up against guys who have been training for at least 10 most probably on average 15 years. And, know, I pretty much have the exact same amount of time of training under my belt. And I'm like, it's having a little bit longer to put a bit more tissue on will make a massive difference in terms of pretty much the same, like six years.
Jacked Chan: you're trading for.
Jacob Herrmann: coming on my sixth year, I think, at the end of this year. yeah, like you look at where there was a bit of a team photo that was taken a couple of weeks ago when I was in Brisbane with the team and BK and I took our shirts off and I was like, damn, I'm still a bit of an arms reach away.
Jacked Chan: Mmm. And the maturity as well, like that doesn't just come, you know, it takes time. It doesn't come like that. it has to take, you have to be really patient and obviously train really hard and be patient with the entire process. People like to rush into these things and bodybuilding doesn't work that way. You know, you need to give it time, give yourself time in order to grow. Don't keep swapping things around. Just stick to one thing, progress it for a long period of time and you'll literally see progress. That's it's so simple, but people tend to overcomplicate.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, absolutely.
Jacked Chan: so much.
Jacob Herrmann: Couldn't have said it better. ⁓ You one thing as well that photos don't always show for these top level pros is their thickness, front to back. Like when you get to see them on the side, you're like, ⁓ okay. That's where that depth really makes a big difference. That shape can't hide when you see someone in person. And what shows you thinking of doing? Have you planned out a bit of a map or ones you'd like to tick off?
Jacked Chan: Probably, I'm looking to do some shows back in the UK as well. So I've obviously moved from the UK now because I've graduated and then back in Hong Kong. So probably do a couple of shows around Asia. Not sure which one yet, but I'm looking to do maybe at least three shows because I don't want to sit through a prep and do the one show. I want to do a good pro debut, maybe mess around in a couple different federations as well. there's an IFBB regional show in Hong Kong in next June or July so that's around the time I'll be competing as well so June, July time maybe even a bit of August as well so we'll just see what comes up when the schedule comes out but yeah UK shows I definitely want to go back to the UK and do a show or two maybe even Australia maybe even New Zealand as well whatever wherever's close wherever's convenient as well
Jacob Herrmann: Okay. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, I think we won't have a pro show by that next couple years. We might have one with WNBF, but we have ICN down here. There could be some pretty high level athletes that I may know of that are competing next year. So not sure what season they're doing. There may be more leaning towards that back end of the year. ⁓ And what's, what's attracting you back to the UK to compete?
Jacked Chan: Definitely more the atmosphere. like giving my shows there was so crazy. the production, the production for shows around Asia, in my opinion, is definitely up there. Like it beats the production of the shows in the UK. But when it comes to atmosphere and people, I think the UK just wins it all. just, I mean, first time stepping on stage and just hearing the crowd just roar. It's a different feeling, The atmosphere in the UK is just completely different when it comes to bodybuilding shows. Yeah, but it's getting better in Asia. In Asia, I know the WF Taiwan Pro Show, that's a pretty big show now. WF Hong Kong has been a very big show. I was a judge for that last year, this year. And yeah, that show is, the production's really good. The atmosphere, because bodybuilding is still a building thing in Hong Kong.
Jacob Herrmann: Well, well.
Jacked Chan: There's a lot more people doing it since Covid. So hopefully the atmosphere will also get better with it as well.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, unlike maybe other countries, they have superseded most ⁓ advancement in their production, but maybe the community is still just being developed a bit more. know, comparing it to the UK, their production's maybe a little bit lower, but the community and the roar of the crowd.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Maybe something else.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, that'd be cool to experience. Definitely, you you could say in Australia, maybe that community aspect could be continued to be developed, but it'll get there. It'll just take some time.
Jacked Chan: If you got any big IFBB, is the IFBB quite big there as well in Australia?
Jacob Herrmann: ⁓ for the untested site.
Jacked Chan: for the testing.
Jacob Herrmann: It's first year was last year. This year they do have a pro qualifier in a similar time period that you're thinking about going to it. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Mm-hmm. I have to come back over then. I love the ferry line. I was in Perth and Sydney last year. I want to go to Melbourne and Brisbane as well. know bodybuilding in Melbourne is quite big. ⁓ I've got lot of followers from the ferry as well. So when I was there, people were asking me, are you going to come here? you going to come there? like, ⁓ no, I'm only here for a few days, but definitely want to go there. I know the atmosphere there is amazing as well.
Jacob Herrmann: Yes, their gyms are quite extravagant. Yeah, Melbourne's probably a bit more bodybuilding-esque. know maybe Gold Coast and Brisbane are pretty good as well, but I wouldn't say I've dipped my toe in all of those environments well enough to know how entrenched it is. Now man, what else is going on in Mr. Chan's life? ⁓ Do you coach? What'd you study? You said you graduated?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, so yeah, was gonna ⁓ do online coaching. ⁓ I was working in the gold industry for a couple months and then I quit because it just wasn't for me. Nine to five. ⁓ And it just wasn't what I wanted to do. Coaching is what I want to do as well. ⁓ So that is the main thing that I am doing now.
Jacob Herrmann: Well, what about what specifically were you doing in the gold industry? I'm kind of interested
Jacked Chan: ⁓ trading, some trading, just mainly sales as well. ⁓ But yeah, it was more something to do off the university and then like finding a job. And then I always knew I was gonna branch into... the gym industry. So we're gonna stick with that for now. Because there's nothing else I want to do other than that because it's what I love. It's amazing. You you help people. mean, like, it's such a good, such a good thing to do.
Jacob Herrmann: Hehehe. Yeah. Obviously, the aspiration of being Elon Musk with maybe the amount of money you would have accumulated from working in the gold industry wasn't enough to outweigh the side of helping people with coaching. So it's good to have another good influence in the space, man.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a good sacrifice. It's less about money, but I think you have to be able to do what you love and that's the only way it's going to be sustainable in the long run. If I work in another industry that I don't like... I'm not going to enjoy it and I'm not going to look forward to going into work whereas with this I can do what I love and spend every single second doing it with joy.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, absolutely. I say to my little brother, know, mate, if you wanted to be a bloody bus driver, you could make, you know, as much money as you want, as long as you find passion in it. There's always some sort of avenue to do well monetarily. And I think that's, know, people always get drawn to that. How do I monetize this? How do I earn as much as I can? And it's like, well, firstly, you need to be able to know you can do it in the long run. Like, what do we say about training? If it's not adherable, there's no point in doing it.
Jacked Chan: Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: because you're just going to fizzle out. So it's a very similar concept. Now, I know that you like to do a bit of travel. Is there anywhere else you'd like to dip your toe in other than Australia?
Jacked Chan: I've actually traveled quite a lot. mean I was recently in Thailand, literally last week. Vietnam before that. If I want to travel, probably... done pretty much done most of Asia, America, definitely America. That's something that I've always wanted to do ⁓ is go to America because I know it's like a different world there as well. And there's a lot of gyms there. I'm actually thinking about doing like a little gym tour with my mate. So we actually did a gym tour around the UK. So that was when I was four weeks out of my first comp. We traveled around the UK hitting different gyms. That's also when I met AJ as well at his gym.
Jacob Herrmann: good time.
Jacked Chan: back when he was training there. ⁓ But America seems to be pretty big with gyms as well. ⁓ anywhere in America is the next plan. It's just far. It's like a 15 hour flight. It's just really far. Australia is only 70 hours away. It's so close. Five hours, six hours away. ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, I think. Well, mate, come to Australia and try and travel somewhere. Like it's bloody 24 hours. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, definitely come back to Australia at some point.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, whenever we want to leave the country, we've got to plan two days of bloody travel until we get anywhere.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like I love the UK as well, but the weather is just not for me. and the UK, have you been to the UK?
Jacob Herrmann: I have not yet.
Jacked Chan: It's nice now at this time because it's summer so everyone's out, people are always friendly, the weather's beautiful and that's usually when it's nice and then after that it's just crap weather for the rest of the year so it's one thing to avoid. But America is something on my bucket list because I've a lot of Asia, I've ⁓ not done Australia but I've been to Australia, obviously done the UK and Europe as well so America would be the next one. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: I like that. It's definitely, you sort of set it yourself, a different world altogether. Like me just picturing how big the supermarkets are and the types of foods that they eat and they have available and the whole structure of their society is very different. ⁓ coming off the back of your first season, what was the plan afterwards in terms of that, where to improve and did your mindset about bodybuilding shift in any way?
Jacked Chan: I only loved it more for that mindset so that's a good thing. You tend to see people... who usually have like a poor experience with prep who, you know, suffered through prep, done, had to do loads of cardio every single day, felt like crap every single day. They tend to usually, you know, fall out of love with it or never do it again. Whereas for me, it was the other way around. Like I only wanted to get back on stage. Like even last year I was dying to get back on stage. And then improvement wise, was a posterior chain, which we continued to improve. And then mainly the chest as well. So I think that's definitely being done at this point. I mean, I've been gaining for literally, I think 60 weeks now. So I've been gaining things for 60 weeks. So we're going to die it down in July. So end of, or mid of July or end of July. And then, yeah, just pre-prep and then start prep next year. Yeah. The end of this year.
Jacob Herrmann: You'll have to diet through Christmas most likely,
Jacked Chan: That's fine. I'm honestly so in love with this process that I hate going offline. I just love eating my own meals because they taste fine to me. And I've got families like, oh, how do you eat that every single day? then I let them try it. I let them try it sometimes and they're like, oh, it actually tastes fine. If you, it tastes good enough for me to stick to it throughout the year. You know, I can have an off plan once a week. ⁓ Christmas, fine. I mean, I can eat, you know, off plans anytime I want. So, you know, Christmas isn't going to stop me from winning my next show.
Jacob Herrmann: No, I agree. was, always have, well, I personally had a couple of family members that just never, never got it. They could never see that drive or the pursuit of what that end goal was. And it was always the same, same questions. I was like, oh, you sure you don't want any of this? And it's like, no, it's okay. I'm content. I'm good.
Jacked Chan: Whenever I go to a family dinner, because we have, I've got a big family, so we have really big family dinners and all of them though I'm a bodybuilder, they're always asking like, are you allowed to have a cheat day today? Did you bring your meals? Are you eating this? Are you eating that? It's just always the same questions every single time. It's been like that for years, it never changes.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm always like, well, I can do whatever I want. It's up to what I choose to do. And that's what I'll do. Like I can literally do whatever I want. If I want to stick to my plan, I will. ⁓ It kind of segues into a good question. Like what is your approach to nutrition? So have you just been on your meal plan ever since you came off prep or did you have a bit of a phase where you will add a bit of...
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: flexibility or less rigidity.
Jacked Chan: ⁓ It was more, well post prep, which was a pretty bad experience for me and you'll probably hear me talk about this in every single podcast I've done after it. That was a bit messy. So that was more... Yes, being on plan, but also enjoying food, maybe a little bit too much. ⁓ but then ever since then, it was always just stuck to the meal plan. ⁓ when I go on holiday, then I'll be very, very flexible. won't attend to, you know, just end up losing a bit of weight rather than gaining the weight because I've walked so much and I'm still, I'm still training. I'm still getting my cardio done on my rest days. so yeah, mainly meal plan, but I think a good thing to do to learn from me is. well is to be able to be more flexible as well. I had dinner with Eric Helms, Dr. Eric Helms, a couple weeks ago and he has obviously done dozens of preps. He's done loads of seasons and he can just, he'll go out and have dinner and be in prep because he's just that experienced and that's something that I want as well. know, he, that's... People always say like, ⁓ being good bodybuilders, sticking to your meal plan, sticking to this, doing this 100%. But then you get people like him, who's also a very good bodybuilder who can just, well, obviously he's very, very smart as well. he just knows what he's eating. Yeah, but he's Dr. Eric Hills. Like he's just more experienced. He's just a guy who just knows what...
Jacob Herrmann: I'd say you're intelligent too, mate. Don't dumb yourself down.
Jacked Chan: to eat, do you know what mean? He's just so flexible with his stuff. He came over for a week and he was just so smart with it, with everything, like the entire bodybuilding thing. We had dinner for two, three hours and I just sat there and just listened to the guy just talk. ⁓ And yeah, that's definitely a day to remember as well. But yeah, that's one thing. I want to be able to learn to be a bit more flexible. ⁓ Maybe not so much in prep. In prep I like things how they are. ⁓ But in general, yeah, I just stick to the meal plan, five meals per day, one off plan per week if I want it. It's more for family once you go out for dinner than we'll go out for dinner.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, okay, cool. I mean, Eric is really the other end of the spectrum in terms of how flexible versus how rigid someone were to be, but how you incorporating a bit more flexibility, you sort of actively trying to sharpen that sword.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah, not like I usually do stick to the meal plan, but occasionally, like I'll change out some food sources just to be, sometimes I get really bored of my foods. mean, I've been eating the same thing for a couple of years now. I'll occasionally swap out something else for this, another fat source, another carb source. So I guess in that way, I'm getting better with that. ⁓ But if I go out and I to estimate food, then I hate it so much because I just don't know what I'm putting in my body. And I'm bad at it guys who just, need it 100%. Yeah. Which I don't know if it's good or bad thing because like... ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: I think I Look, it's a good question, right? You know, should I lean into maybe what I like doing more or go this down this other route? And I think you've got to lean into it when you need to. So you know that you just like sticking to the plan. ⁓ I personally am quite similar, but post-com, I just, I needed to shift the goalpost a little bit. It's like maybe 15 weeks afterwards. So sort of got through that.
Jacked Chan: Mm-hmm. ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: the first phase, ⁓ you know, I've only just recently gone back onto weighing every or tracking everything to the gram because it just wasn't enticing to me. So I set the, I reset the goalpost to making sure I stay within, you know, this body range target. ⁓ But I had all my fundamentals in place. I was still getting, you know, enough fruit, enough veg. ⁓ my protein, I was pretty much eating the same things most days, but if mom made some scones, I'd have some scones. And if my weight trickled up by 300 grams more than what it should be, I just ate a little bit less the next day. It was kind of insightful. It was like, ⁓ cool, I can do this without necessarily having everything weighed out and tracking everything like I would previously.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. That would throw me off. It's more if I go on holiday.
Jacob Herrmann: It did to me too, mate. Like it took me a farewell to get to that point. I was like, okay, I can relax.
Jacked Chan: Or like when I go on holiday then I'll relax. If I'm in the deficit when I'm on holiday then I'll book an Airbnb just for the kitchen and I'll cook. meal prep. I did that in Japan, did that in Indonesia and Bali when I was in my deficit. ⁓ But now I'm more just eating off protein, know, continue to get enough water, fruit, veg, your training, you're moving around. So ⁓ yeah, that's good enough for me, whenever I go on holiday at least.
Jacob Herrmann: Hmm. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, really rinse because when prep starts like I'm not gonna like that's not gonna happen When prep starts, it's just gonna be everything the same every single day
Jacob Herrmann: it makes it easier. And I think a lot of people underestimate how much that impacts your food focus as example. ⁓ If you're 15 weeks out and you're struggling with food focus already, it's like, damn, like what's going on? Let's have a look into the situation a little bit more. It's probably more than just tracking that's going into that, but it's one element.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. And that's one thing about what you asked improvements for the next prep is reduce should focus for the next prep as well. So stop scrolling on Instagram reels whenever I eat one of the five meals per day, just looking at food stuff. That's one thing as well as just to get rid of that completely. Just filter out.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Could you go into that a little bit more and how it sort of started and how that made you feel through the prep as well?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, I mean, everyone does it, but it's more in the long run post prep. It's more in long run post prep where, you know...
Jacob Herrmann: Do they though, Julien?
Jacked Chan: when you're more, the more food focus you are, the more likely it's not going to run well when you do your post-show phase. mainly that. you know, look, I was literally looking at my phone, scrolling through Instagram Reels and I had YouTube on looking at some, some guy eat a mukbang or something. And I'd be having my meal just like that. So yeah, that's one thing I don't want again. a bit of food focus will happen obviously, but I think I'm way, more prepared for this prep, like the coming prep. ⁓ So that's one thing to learn as well.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, it's definitely, ⁓ people just don't appreciate how much of it, in fact, it truly has. I was good through my contest prep, but afterwards, before I was on my way to Thailand, I was not so good. I was, yeah.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's always afterwards. Like, that's the hardest part. It's not prep itself. Prep itself is fine. ⁓ It's always when you don't have that goal there, when your hunger hormones are all over the place and you just want to eat everything in sight. I think winning as well made it worse because it was more rewarding myself and then not seeing my family for an entire year. So I just want to eat food with them and then it turned into a binge. And then the cycle of eating crap and then not following my meal plan the next day and cutting food and then ended up restricting myself more. and then that leads to an even bigger binge. So yeah, that's one thing to keep in mind for myself for my next prep.
Jacob Herrmann: I think you'll do much better man by the sounds of it you've understand the things you need to control. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, you know this too, like, you know, you do need to get food back into the system to get body fat back up, but it needs to be like controlled to some extent.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, yeah, it's not gonna happen again, tell you that, there's no way. Yeah, yeah. Because it was like one cookie turned into two cookies and then I'd go upstairs and I'd just run back down and get one more. And I would get two more and I would come back up. Yeah, it wasn't not healthy.
Jacob Herrmann: How would you describe the feeling?
Jacked Chan: shit. It was probably, you just feel so down all the time because you just feel guilty. And the guiltier you feel, the more you want to eat because you're just unhappy. ⁓ So yeah, so I'll tell you the first couple of days, I gained like 15 kilos within like a week. Yeah, within a week. That was good.
Jacob Herrmann: in the first couple of days or first week. That's hefty.
Jacked Chan: It was nine kilos within three days. Yeah, so I was like, this is my checking spot right in this room as well. So I'd look at my checking, I can't send this to AJ because my legs were like peeled. My legs were still peeled. You look at the upper body, you're like, yeah, this guy's been.
Jacob Herrmann: Jeez. Yeah, that's common.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, so it definitely won't be happening. ⁓ And then we did our first diet post prep, which I got down pretty lean. got, I was two kilos above ⁓ my stage weight, two or three kilos above my stage weight. So I still got pretty lean and I reversed so well. ⁓ Yeah, obviously I was hungry, but it wasn't like, you know, that post show thing where it's just, yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Was that intentional to get that line?
Jacked Chan: ⁓ Yeah, it was intentional to get that lean. Just to see the improvements I've made as well and to also prove to myself that I wouldn't do it again. So yeah, I did that and then did that through two holidays as well. yeah, it turned out pretty good. So I'm pretty confident for the next prep that it won't happen again and it's going to go a whole lot smoother.
Jacob Herrmann: I personally remember just feeling like you could never be hungry. ⁓ sorry, full. You could never be full. You were just, you know, your stomach's starting to protrude out from, you know, from your chest. It's coming out as if you had a child in there and you're like, God damn, I could eat another, you know, whole round of what I just had.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy honestly. It's like there's like a hole in your stomach and it's just never ending. It's just food can just come in and yeah, it's crazy.
Jacob Herrmann: won't be happening again. So.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, I reckon if I'd done that, if I do a post-show phase and then go do like a food challenge, that would be so easy. Like, just... I mean, I would never do that, but I'm saying like, if I did a food challenge, like a really big food challenge after a comp, after a prep, it'd be the easiest thing ever. How about that?
Jacob Herrmann: like during a post-comp phase doing a food challenge? Yeah. Okay, so that this is you saying I've got my shit together now. Yeah, okay. I see. I mean, we can put your money where your mouth is and see what happens, but I wouldn't recommend it. I wouldn't recommend it.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. That's a lot of work.
Jacob Herrmann: Now you said man that you need to make some improvements to your posterior. Was that namely hamstrings, glutes and back or more just lower body?
Jacked Chan: ⁓ Definitely not the lower body anymore. Um, glutes, hamstrings. mean, again, like I said earlier, you can never have too big of legs, but it's more the upper part of my back, more, more of the thickness side of things. Um, so doing your heavy rows, heavy hinge movements. Um, I also think it's a genetic thing. So we've got Asians, big legs on the front, but then the back is always something that just lacks for some reason. Um, so. Trying to defy that and then you know really bring up the back which we have done in the in the last year, so The main focus right now is the chest so really just looking to Be as accurate as possible with this training and I'm bringing up that chest and you know, I'll ⁓ be with my friends and be like, ⁓ your chest looks bigger Just from like seeing me in real life as well. So it's clearly working ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: to do science.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, it is positive science.
Jacob Herrmann: Have you done anything maybe slightly different to what you were doing before or just sticking to the basics and getting some more time under the graph?
Jacked Chan: a whole lot more volume for the chest. With the posterior, it's been the same. So just having the entire posterior session ⁓ on one of the days. And then with the chest training since coming off stage, it's adding more volume and yeah, just really... demolishing the chest on my push days and being a whole lot more accurate with training. I feel like my training has improved a whole lot more ⁓ in terms of progression and just being accurate with things. I do a lot less partials now. I do a lot less force reps now just to standardize things a bit more. ⁓ ⁓ trained by JP so I like I love his training style like more hardcore but then he also doesn't really do partials he doesn't really do go for the fifth well he goes for fifth I do go for 50-50 reps like occasionally I'll do a partial here and there but definitely a whole lot less than than before like I would do a single arm row before and then or a or a dumbbell fly or a chest fly I did like three partials at the end of every single set. Now, not so much anymore. Maybe at the end of the last set, but not so much. Not as much, yeah. So.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. You're probably also getting more out of your normal sets that you're more accurate now too. it's like, imagine adding those parcels on top of that. You'd be like, ⁓ my God, this is just a lot of, a lot of recovery demand.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, yeah. I definitely get a whole lot more stimulus out of each set now, because I'm just a whole lot more accurate with my training. it's so easy to, for example, if you're like a Smith Machine Press, a flat Smith Machine Press, it's so easy for you to use your front delt and no chest at all. So now it's, you know, really focusing on just... Obviously the front delt is still going to work, but really focusing on pressing with the chest itself and not bouncing out the bottom and stuff like that.
Jacob Herrmann: Was your front dealt overpowering in the past?
Jacked Chan: ⁓ No, it's just that my chest is weaker and then my like, doubt here, yeah, like this is way bigger than my chest here. So yeah, I guess you could say yeah. But like you'll see in my stage shots as well, like my doubts are just so much bigger than my chest.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah.
Jacked Chan: So really, I'm confident that we've really improved the chest ⁓ for the next time at second stage.
Jacob Herrmann: I'm excited to see the package. a little question about, you know, what you think, ⁓ brought you from, let's say an amateur athlete or, or trainee to where you are now. ⁓ I think, I think a lot of people get attached to trying to turn pro when maybe they should try and be a pro worthy athlete, someone who lives in breeze it. And you might never turn pro, but that maybe is a better pursuit to
Jacked Chan: Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: to strive for, would you agree?
Jacked Chan: Yeah, I think it's more, don't chase the pro status. It's more just be the best you can every single day and improve across every single area that you can control. Your training, your nutrition, your recovery, improve, know, just maximize as much as you can out of all those areas that you can control. And then, you know, because you can get on protocol so easy now, you just get handed out. So in my opinion, it doesn't actually mean much anymore. Um, but what matters is that, you you try, you know, you put everything into your prep, put everything into your off season, you know, bodybuilding is a throughout the year sport you're looking to improve every single day. The off season is pretty much the only time where you will grow. So, you know, really put everything into. every single day when it comes to bodybuilding and in general as well. Don't hard-force things, know, hit your meals, hit your water, do everything you can in order to grow for the stage rather than chasing pro status. Which is something I tell my clients as well, like, they're like, oh, I want to get my pro card. it's just like, then you need to do the work. They won't check in, they won't check in, won't communicate. And it's just like, you you want to be a pro but then you won't act like a pro before you even turn like a pro before you turn into a pro so that's one thing I would say.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, well, what do you think would happen in a situation where maybe someone's qualities and the way they conducted a prep, for example, was quite below a pro-worthy standard, but then they won a pro card? How do you think that would maybe influence the psychology of the athlete, for the better or worse?
Jacked Chan: Well, mean, it depends how the athlete, like, if they realize that they've, not that they don't deserve it, but if they realize they could have put... a lot more work in, then that's just what they will do. But then if they think, ⁓ I can just half-ass this and still get a pro card, then when it comes to pro shows, you're not going to win because you're still going to half-ass things. You're still going to not hand in your check-in on time or miss a meal, things like that. ⁓ I think it just depends how that person views themselves when it comes to how much work they put in. if that makes sense.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, it can go both ways. But for some people, it unfortunately goes ⁓ the latter. And that's not always the best case for a long term career. ⁓ okay. Now, when you think about the people that had the biggest influence on your career, I know you mentioned Jordan Peters, is there anyone else that you sort of really just dove into their style, their content to help you progress as an athlete?
Jacked Chan: Well, obviously AJ, who's my coach. ⁓ He's done a lot for natural bodybuilding, a lot for me as someone who needs Instagram as well in order to ⁓ have clients. yeah, Adrian Morris is someone I would definitely mention, like I mention him every single time. His training style, the way he works, his work ethic, he's an individual who doesn't take a single day off. ⁓ himself as well. He'll do everything in his power in order to be the best athlete regardless of whatever genetics he has. ⁓ yeah, him, Jordan Peters of course, he's more like, there's a quote that he says is, do not fucking miss. I'm not sure if I can swear but DNFM is what he stands by, ⁓ which is what I really like as well. ⁓ Yeah, just looking at his training on Instagram, well, until he was banned. Banned again.
Jacob Herrmann: Has he been bad recently? So I haven't seen any posts.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, he's been banned fully this time, don't know why, but he got suspended last time, lost his account because he was talking about peptides I think, and then he said, if he gets banned another time he's never coming back. So I don't think he's coming back. He doesn't care anyways.
Jacob Herrmann: Wow. ⁓ okay. Body Q &As, mate.
Jacked Chan: The only reason why he uses Instagram is to educate people like me, or people who want to compete or be the best version of themselves. So yeah, those two guys I would definitely say are my biggest ⁓ inspirations when it comes to the whole bodybuilding thing. I'm sure there's a whole lot more, but from the top of my head, definitely AJ.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, they've had a massive, AJ's had a massive influence on natural bodybuilding internationally or worldwide, excuse the pun. ⁓ And I definitely like relate to Jordan as well. Just that animalistic fucking mentality. Yes, we can swear on here, Jolene, it doesn't matter.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, a little bright. He's crazy, it's like when I met him in real life, he's my height so he's five sixes. I'll show you a photo of him. then he's like three, like you'll put your arm around his neck and it'll be up here because his neck is just so large that it just feels like you're like standing next to someone taller.
Jacob Herrmann: Holy smokes. Yeah.
Jacked Chan: But yeah, he's a very, very large guy, mate. It was insane to meet him. Yeah, he's, there he is. Look that. He's just so wide there. Yeah, very, very, yeah, very large guy. Yeah, it's crazy. I saw him train as well. has this guy that walks around with him to put his plates away. He pays him, he pays him. he, he,
Jacob Herrmann: The definition of density. I know, like a training partner, hey.
Jacked Chan: He can't, you know, on the Atlantis hack, which is already a light hack, I would say, you know, he has to load like 20 plates per side. you know, being his size, I mean, his weight, he's not, he's not doing that. You know, he's, yes, has someone to do that for him, which is pretty hilarious. You see it real life, you're like, what the heck? But yeah, it was pretty cool meeting him as well. He came up. He actually came up to us because he thought we were visiting from... from Hong Kong, but we obviously lived in the UK. He came up to us and said hi and then, yeah, eventually he just sponsored me. So I'm sponsored by Train by JP, which is pretty cool. You one of the first natural bodybuilding athletes. So AJ and I got sponsored at the same time. And then now he's getting quite a lot of naturals on board now. So it's pretty cool though. Again, getting sponsored by Train by JP, not very common.
Jacob Herrmann: Hell yeah man.
Jacked Chan: thing. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: No, ⁓ absolutely, it would have been quite surreal. And I assume that just came out out of the blue, like with not real much effort on your end apart from what you do do on social media.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he just left me and then I was like, yeah, I couldn't believe it. That's right.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, it's also good for natural bodybuilding space too, right? Like it to earn money. You know, you
Jacked Chan: Yeah, it's good for his business as well. It's very smart for him to, you know, finally branch out into the natural side of things. And I'm sure it's paid off completely. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know in the UK you guys have a pretty strong. scene, is a good reason to as wise probably ⁓ moved down that route. But yeah, massive influence. ⁓ And then AJ as well, like I was saying before, he's been doing awesome stuff. So if anyone hasn't checked him out, they should. I don't know, are you a member of his ⁓ paid? Yeah. How's that been going? Cause I know he's released, I haven't been on there for a bit, but I know he's released some extra educational stuff and.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's been, I think, two more new courses which I've already done. a whole lot of education, know, there's forums and then the MBW athletes are every single day, they do their own logs, off to questions. ⁓ so it's definitely worth, I mean, only like five pounds, I think, or 10 pounds. ⁓ so I don't even think about it. Like it's a very cheap subscription. ⁓ and then, you know, the value you get from it and the information you get from it, it's worth way more than whatever you pay. yeah, definitely.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Are you, you might think this is a bit of a side tangent, but are you planning on staying a natural athlete for your career?
Jacked Chan: to. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I mean, I've always seen... thought about the enhanced side of things, ⁓ but there's no way I'm doing that because I just love representing natural bodybuilding. ⁓ I've always been more into natural bodybuilding than the enhanced side of things. think more recently I've gotten more into the, you know, watching enhanced shows and looking at, you know, bodybuilding pages where they talk about the Olympia and stuff and the IFBB. But for me, natural bodybuilding is something that I enjoy watching. more than enhanced bodybuilding. But that's like my own preference. Some people might think it's stupid, but I just prefer natural bodybuilding itself. ⁓ So yeah, definitely worth just staying natural. I want to be able to make as much progress as possible without using anything, any PEDs, which I'm not against. I ⁓ respect people who do it, who have the goal to step on the Olympia stage, but that's not my own goal. So my own goal, get WMBF World Champ, and then we'll talk about another goal later on when it's... Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Hell yeah ⁓
Jacked Chan: But a long way to go because you've seen the standard of bodybuilders. yeah, again, with muscle maturity and the training experience that they have, it will be a long, long, long way to go. But it's definitely something that I will box off at some point in this life, for sure.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. it doesn't sound like you're be lining up for a Worlds appearance next year. This will probably be very long contest prep if you do that. okay. Do you know? Yeah. Well, you're have to mate if you're gonna get that world title.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Maybe one day though. It has to happen one day. Yeah, it's gonna happen. But next year, Not something in my sight at this point. If it lines up, then yes. And if the US government gives me my visa, then hell yeah. I'd do It's so hard for me. I've been rejected. I was meant to go to the US this month ⁓ and they didn't give it to me. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Is it hard for you guys? Really? Wow, would you say that's just due to the fact you're coming from Hong Kong?
Jacked Chan: It's so, I think, ⁓ Yeah, mean I'm not going into politics but I know their government was like kicking people out from Hong Kong from the US so I don't really know the whole thing about it but yeah I got rejected for getting my visa this year so
Jacob Herrmann: Not easy. I... Okay, yeah.
Jacked Chan: But anywhere else I can go, because I have a Hong Kong passport, I can go to the UK without a visa, go to Australia without a visa, is fine, except the US, which is annoying. Yeah. Yeah, I know.
Jacob Herrmann: God bless America. Well, look, going back to a bit of worlds, I'll be catching up with Dirk and I'd love to sort of compare myself against that son of a gun. And also one of our own, Nathan Wallace, who he came third against Oscar and Babakar in 24. So just, you know what it... You just want to size yourself up and see how far away you actually are.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, you want to go next. mean, people like Dirk who... He's gonna be... He's always peeled. It's crazy. mean, it's His physique is just so... So bubbly as well. He's someone I want to meet as well. I know he lives out in Thailand. But... Yeah, I want to compare... I don't... I don't really like comparing myself, but I do want to see... what I look like next to him as well. Because I know he's ⁓ probably like my height as well or something like that. So we would technically be in the same weight category I think. ⁓ Same category. And then you get people like Oscar, the professor who's, yeah, he already looks peeled. I already see updates on his Instagram. That guy is just insane.
Jacob Herrmann: Ahem. Yeah, a freak. I don't know how he's gonna look like. I want him to hold up the quality of his physique, but he's doing a long contest prep. Like, I think he's doing some early shows.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Yeah, and his training is extremely random as well. It's like the complete opposite of what I would do. If I recall, he'll just go into the gym, not log book anything, and he'll just train. He'll just do whatever he wants. But then when he does it, he'll be putting like seven plates on the Cybex Smith squat and repping that. repping that for like three, four sets. It's just like, how the heck do you do that? Yeah, it's crazy.
Jacob Herrmann: Look at guys like Brian DeCosta, like massive workouts, super strong. I've seen only a few clips of Babacar train, but I'd say it's probably quite similar to the way how relaxed it is compared to maybe how others do it.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. He looks like he's doing powerlifting. Like he'll wear a powerlifting... ⁓ What do you call that? Like suit? A powerlifting suit, I think? And then a powerlifting belt and then he'll just do that. And then... It's crazy, Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. Yeah. You Yeah, well hopefully they get a matchup again this year. Should be cool. I Nathan's going, so ⁓ might be third again, Nathan, but.
Jacked Chan: When are you competing?
Jacob Herrmann: The plan is 28
Jacked Chan: Okay, so when is it, sorry, when was it you lost completed again?
Jacob Herrmann: ⁓ just end of last year
Jacked Chan: Okay, I know that's okay, nice. So another bit of time until it's gonna be it again. Nice.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, yeah. The goal would be get a bit leaner. I think there's just a little bit more with a bit more muscle, I'll be able to do that a bit easier or at least appear that way. And then be a good three to four kilos heavier would be, I think pretty good. So again, I'm like similar. haven't, I haven't dieted as of yet since the show. I wanna compare those photos because Man, that fat just goes straight to the fucking midsection.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, the old hillbilly section. It's a bit a mind-boggling bit, that's just the reality of what you look like, contest prep, like post prep. ⁓ I'm sure you'll make a whole lot more improvements, especially if you're competing in 28 as well. ⁓ Nail everything you can, and you'll be sweet.
Jacob Herrmann: No, man, I'm loving train at the moment. I sort of, ⁓ I was just writing up a post this morning. I, I don't know about you, but I go back and watch the old world, ⁓ YouTube, YouTube clips. Like I was watching the Boston worlds. You you mentioned, we mentioned, Dirk, he was up there, peeled. had, ⁓ Jeff Alberts was up there. ⁓ I think there was a German guy. Like that was a good, super competitive lineup.
Jacked Chan: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Jacob Herrmann: And that whole video is 45 minutes long. And those guys would be imposed for at least 25 minutes nonstop, which is insane.
Jacked Chan: Yeah, that's one thing to never underestimate as well, it's like the posing aspect of things. Which is a lot.
Jacob Herrmann: I think they take it as a bit of like a chest, a badge of honor at Worlds. They're like, yeah, you know, this is Worlds. You get posed harder than anywhere else.
Jacked Chan: WBF like to put you up for a long time on stage, which I love, which is good. You don't go through 30 week contest prep and get looked at once. Even if it's obvious, get another couple rounds in at least. That's what they like to do at the...
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah, what are you there for?
Jacked Chan: UKDFB, I think the IMBA, PNBA, I know one of the world's shows, they just had the athletes up. and people were travelling internationally to come for the show. Did one round for so many categories and then finished. Imagine travelling that long, going through that long of prep at a world show as well. And then doing one round of mandatries and then kicking everyone off stage. I would not be happy with that.
Jacob Herrmann: No, that'd be super rough. You even if it's clear cut, let's give the people a bit of value here, run them through a few rounds. ⁓ It's not like it's the Olympia. ⁓ Yeah, that would be super rough. Yeah. Mate, well, unless there's anything you want to discuss or you want to put out there. ⁓
Jacked Chan: No, you very much for having me, mate. Appreciate it. Very good chat. ⁓
Jacob Herrmann: appreciate it Yeah, let me know if you ever come down to Sydney again or Oz. ⁓ Yeah, I'm looking to do like a few cool things here for the community. So if you're ever in ⁓ a close proximity to what I'm doing, we'll get you down and get you involved.
Jacked Chan: percent.
Jacob Herrmann: Yeah. If you train today or on the cards. What's on the push day? Let's go straight to the chicken titties man ⁓ Jack, appreciate you, mate. Look forward to catching up with them, we do. And thanks for coming on.
