S3E13: Redefining Life Post-Divorce: Embracing Growth and Authenticity in Midlife

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Welcome back to the Inviting Shift podcast.
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I am here today.
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We're going to talk about something that's becoming it's hard to say the word popular, isn't it?
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But uh, happens more is divorce and midlife.
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Um, and I'm here with two really lovely ladies, michelle and Danielle, to talk about what that's like and what it's like to be single in midlife.
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And I know that divorce was probably one of the hardest things I ever went through.
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I mean doesn't mean that it wasn't completely worth it, but it was definitely one of the hardest things that I had gone through, and I I personally was very angry for about five years.
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I went through a five-year period of being really angry until one day I just got tired of being angry.
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But I'd love to.
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I'm looking forward to hearing Michelle and Danielle's stories.
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So, without any further ado, michelle, thank you for being on the show.
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Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your experiences?
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Bit?
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about yourself and your experiences.
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Sure, so I'm Michelle.
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I'm a TikToker, a content creator on TikTok, and, yeah, I'm recently separated from my husband and have two children aged six and nine, and I've only been living alone since January of this year, so it's in January 2024.
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So it's all very fresh and new for me, but it's the right path, beautiful.
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Thank you.
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And Danielle, welcome.
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Hi, thanks so much for having me.
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I am Danielle Angela.
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I have been divorced twice.
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The first divorce was I don't want to sound flippant, but it was easy peasy no children involved, and we agreed on how to split everything and win our separate ways.
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The second divorce and honestly the second marriage was much more challenging and involved three children plus a stepchild who is, um my former husband's oldest child.
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She's almost 22.
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And my, my three daughters that I birthed were 11, eight and four at the time of our separation.
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They're now 13, 10 and six.
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Um, it's, it's been a ride, it's.
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It's, christina, as you said it's.
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It was like the hardest thing that you've gone through, for sure, and also a hundred percent necessary and worth it.
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Yeah, I agree, it was for me too challenging because I only had the one child, but I mean any child.
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It means that, like you're connected to this person like forever.
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It feels like I mean, my son is now going to be 22.
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So I don't have to engage that often with my ex-husband.
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Um, and it was really, really challenging and we didn't even have like financial stuff to separate because there was like nothing really to separate amongst us.
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It really had to do with taking care of the child and the fact that, like I was, I was more angry at myself because I kept going back, because I wanted to fix it for my son, I wanted to make it for my son, I wanted to make it okay for him.
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Like I was like, ah, surely you can just get by.
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Um, when I was talking to Michelle before we actually started recording about, like there's a lot of marriages that happen after children um, graduate or leave the home and then people decide to get divorced.
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But what I realized is those kids are actually watching their parents in a very dysfunctional relationship for so long.
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And when I looked down at my three or four-year-old child, I was like, do I want him to think that the way that we're interacting is okay or the way that I'm being treated is the way that I want him to treat a future partner.
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And with that I could not stay because I was like, absolutely not Like I would want my children to have boundaries around this stuff and be like, nope, not going to be treated that way.
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So I'm curious what came up for y'all, because I was just angry for a really long time, a really long time.
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I just remember being so angry for so many years and my friends thinking I was a man hater and I was like I don't hate all men, I get that, yeah, so with me, I think we were probably living as roommates for a very, very long time.
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I genuinely think, you know, when people say let's have kids, it will fix the marriage, I actually think the opposite is often true, in that having kids is such a challenge that it can completely change your relationship with your husband and um, and that was, I think, probably the case for us.
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We became parents and roommates and that was about it, and and we, we, you know, probably didn't make enough time to work on each other and and the relationship and you know, date, date nights were so infrequent I could probably count them on one or two hands since the children were born and, and you know it's, it was.
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We didn't work on each other and by the end, it just wasn't a functional relationship in the slightest.
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And we, we, we made each other unhappy, very unhappy, and I would.
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When I'm unhappy, my response is always to disappear in some way, so I would go up to the bedroom and sort of escape from life, and I wasn't living life at all really.
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So when I moved into my own place, which is, like I said, very, very recent.
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It's sort of been this crazy discovery of a brand new life, of oh okay.
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So, for example, this weekend I don't have the children.
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Um, what do I do with my time?
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And at first I had absolutely no clue what to do with my time and I would sit there and do nothing, so and go.
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Well, I don't know who I am anymore.
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So it's been a journey how about for you?
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I relate so much with both of both of you and what you've shared so far.
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For me, um, I think the the most surprising challenge for me through, um, the last two years after having ended my second marriage has been a lot of grief, a lot, a lot of grief, and I I didn't how can I put this, like in a respectful way?
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Um, the grief was not in regard to the end of the marriage or the loss of my former partner, because it was not a healthy relationship, and I have felt, from the moment I made the decision to end that marriage, so much relief and I've been able to just feel the calm that I felt like I'd never had before.
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The thing for me that's really come to the surface is the grief around not having a nuclear family, which is also really under the surface, about not having the nuclear family when I was a child either, and so, like, as I've grieved not having a nuclear family or not feeling like I have the traditional nuclear family, I've been able to realize like, oh, actually I've been just kind of stuffing down how I felt about my childhood for all of these years and not addressing a lot of things that I yeah, I had just been basically ignoring and thinking like, well, that's in the past, I'm not going to think about that anymore, and feeling like I had moved on or gotten past it.
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But what I, what I've really become aware of through processing all of that, is a lot of the things from the past.
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Through my childhood were still dictating the decisions that I was making, especially in regard to the men that I chose to be in relationship with.
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So, gosh, that's been hard, painful, time consuming, um, distracting from other things, you know, distracting from um, like where I thought I would be in my career right now, where I thought I would be in my business right now.
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Um, instead, I've taken a long pause and just given myself a lot of space to work, work on myself.
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I had to do that.
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I had to take the long pause as well.
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So essentially from about March to the beginning of September, I sort of did nothing, and it was it's like you need to take that time yeah if you've got the opportunity to and I you know, and it may be that, um, women who are employed don't necessarily get that time but when you're self-employed you have a little bit more control over your own schedule a little bit.
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But yeah, I had to do exactly the same thing no-transcript, so much energy, which I think is why I was so angry.
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And I know, underneath an anger there was grief, there was sadness, there was fear, there was shame, um, all of those things.
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And so, even though I call it anger, I it was like easy for me back then because I could point to all the things that he had done wrong that made our marriage so hard.
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And yet, you know, when I was tired of being angry and I went to therapy, I was like, oh, and here's all the things I did to contribute to that Like, even though they may not have been like in our vows, I sure had made it really easy for him to be petty and hurtful and, um, do other things, because I was also not showing up in my best light either.
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So I, it took me many years to actually own that part, um, and it took a therapist.
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And, and the reason I went to the therapist was, um, because I had been taking my son to therapy, because his dad decided to move across the country and suddenly my child's grades like just sunk.
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Um, he went from like an A student to like a D student overnight.
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And so, um, I took him there and he went and he got a lot of benefit.
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And then one day she was like, christina, have you been to a counselor?
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And I was like, oh no, I should.
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Yeah, I know, I get it.
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Ha ha, you know.
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And then the next time she asked again, did you make an appointment?
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And I was like, oh no, I really should.
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And she looked at me and she said, christina, he's going to be okay when you're okay.
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I don't know if I ever would have known that if it wasn't for the divorce.
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Like that I am to what Danielle was saying Like I didn't realize how much unhealed stuff I had that I was bringing into my marriage.
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And I just did a life review last year and I went through my twenties and I was like I was the red flag collector.
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It wasn't my first husband, it was every man that I dated before that too.
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Like they were all the same version, like a different version of the same person, and I'm sure that that had a lot to do with you know my family and the way that I was raised.
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So for me it was a lot of therapy, helped me start getting through that.
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And that was even after I was with the man I'm married to now, which is very lovely and does not have the same qualities.
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I was very, very particular the second time around and I was like because what I learned from my first marriage was, if I'm with somebody and they're not contributing or benefiting my life in some way, I would rather be alone, because I can do it better on my own than I can being with somebody who I also have to caretake or um takes more energy from me than offers me.
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Yeah, absolutely For sure.
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Yes, One of the hardest things for me in the last two years has been recognizing how entangled, emotionally enmeshed I was with my children and how much people pleasing I was doing.
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I was, you know, like bending over backwards to do whatever I could to make sure that they were happy.
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But really, under the surface, it was like I'm afraid that they're not going to be happy with me and and I had such little bandwidth for any kind of discourse with them.
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Um, or, you know, just like consequences for behavior choices that were not ideal, we didn't have any rules there.
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There were no like clear expectations.
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Um, the one thing that their father and I had always told them was to always be honest.
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But there was so much dishonesty under the surface and they didn't know that.
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But, um, I think you know whether we know something because someone has spoken it out loud or not is one thing, but, like, our bodies just sense that tension that happens and um sense that tension that happens and um, it's.
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It's taken a lot for me to sort of redirect them.
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Like um, I was in a coaching program last year and we talked a lot about boundaries and they asked me what are your boundaries with your kids, and I was like I have no idea, I have no idea.
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And then I started to think about what are some things that happen in the home when my kids are here that I don't like, and so one really prominent example for me is that my children used to just walk into my room and take my stuff take my hairbrushes or my hairdryer, or a pillow or blanket, whatever they, whatever they wanted.
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It was like they just walked in, took it and then I would be going to look for the thing and I'm like, where's my hairbrush?
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And find it in one of their bedrooms.
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And so I created a rule or a boundary, um, and thankfully this worked pretty quickly, because I don't like doing it.
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It's still uncomfortable for me, but I said you can no longer walk into someone else's room, especially now that you're getting older.
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You can't do this to me, you can't do it to each other.
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You have to ask for permission before you enter the room.
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You have to ask for permission before you take someone's belongings.
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And if you don't do it, if you walk into my room or someone else's bedroom without permission, the.
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And if you don't do it, if you walk into my room or someone else's bedroom without permission, the door of your own room comes off.
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For two weeks I wouldn't even know how to take a door off, to be honest, but that's really impressive.
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Yeah, I had help with that.
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I had to do it, I think, three times and they learned very quickly.
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My youngest she's only six, she's actually the best at honoring that boundary.
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It might just also be because she comes into my room the most, because she wants to talk with me or be near me, because she's still small.
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But, um, she will be in my room with me.
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She will leave the room to go get a snack and then come back and before she steps through the door, the doorway, she says can I come back in?
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Yes, thank you for asking.
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So just, you know those kinds of little things.
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They seem little, but I, my hope is that by creating boundaries with my kids like that, now that they are, that's being modeled for them and that they're able to to do that because it to do that for themselves, because I wasn't able to do that until I was 43 years old.
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Yeah, and then you know that that also changes the type of partner that you are.
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Uh, you are going to marry or be with.
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Right Is like, because if they start, you know, after your model, they start holding boundaries and the other person doesn't respect those boundaries, then it's like oh, this is not a person for me.
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So it's like you're teaching them self care in that way, which is why I think you know we talk about like why are so many women, you know, seeking divorce?
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Well, one, because today they can, or 50 years ago it made it really really challenging, um, and two, it's like I think we're just not as willing to put up with the bullshit.
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Um, we were talking about before this that like the bar used to be the bullshit we were talking about before this, that like the bar used to be well, he doesn't beat you.
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And it's like oh so, this is the benchmark.
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Like, if I'm not being abused, then I should stay in a relationship.
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That's miserable.
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Yeah, for the kids is used to be the thought and it was like but now the kids are learning to be in dysfunctional relationships that are not healthy and they are hurtful.
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And you know, would I want my child to stay in that?
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Absolutely not Like I want them to take care of themselves.
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So what a beautiful way of like starting to instill boundaries and showing them.
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You know these.
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This is how relationships even, you know, doesn't even have to be a partner, but just relationships amongst friends and family like we're allowed to have boundaries, we're allowed to say no, that doesn't work for me, or walk away if something is hurtful.
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It's funny because I've definitely learned to remove the people from my life that don't add anything to it and to have more of the people in my life that do add things to it, and that really does make a difference to the quality of life that you have, and it's when you're living with someone it's impossible.
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You cannot just remove them.
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You know, I, we, we co-parent equally, um, so I, I and I, because our children are so young, we do it, we sort of swap houses quite often, so I have to see him quite often.
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We've remained amicable, which I am forever thankful for, but it does mean having to see each other all the time, and so you kind of have to still deal with that person, but then you can walk away again and that's.
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I love that bit.
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It's not that I mind being around him, but it's, you know, it's nice to be able to come back to my own space and know that he has no control here and it's all all up to me and and the boundary thing.
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And so I was always the soft one of the relationship when it came to the kids.
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So I've had to step up a bit, a bit like you, danielle, and I've had to become someone who's a little bit stricter than I would normally like to be, because there's no one else to do that in this household.
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So, you know, when it comes to things like screen time, the kids, if they could, they'd be on it from the moment they woke up to the moment they go to bed with, you know, some snacks.
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If they could have that, that would be their perfect day.
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Just if I fed them snacks as as they were on screens and.
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But obviously that's not good for them in the slightest.
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So, yeah, I have to install, instill the boundaries when it comes to screen time, and they know that I mean it and I, you know I will take those things away from them if they don't.
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Um, they don't listen to me, but they always try and push the boundary a little bit, so there's always a little bit of a well, but I'm just finishing up this one thing and I'm and I say, how long is it going to take?
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Because if it's any more than two minutes, then I'm just going to turn it off and they go.
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Okay, I'm just finished, quick and um, but yeah, it, it can be hard, because I want them to like me.
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You know they're my kids and if it and you and I suppose the one thing you have to deal with when you're a single mum is it's just you.
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There isn't someone else to come in and help with discipline or boundary setting or anything like that.
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It is just up to one person, um, and so I want my kids to like me, but I also really need them to know that I'm their parent way over them liking me.
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So quite often they don't like me very much because I'm having to do things that they don't like, but it is the right thing for them, but that can be quite hard sometimes to have you know know they're six, six and nine years old, so the nine year old starting to go into that pre pubescent age.
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She's just gone into middle school as well, so she's changed school and, yeah, there's a lot of emotions going on, big emotions we have to deal with.
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I really relate to that, michelle.
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Yeah, the the like, the feeling of wanting my kids to like me, but but recognizing that for the longterm what's best is not necessarily that they like me right now, but that I'm teaching them how to be in the world.
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Respect is more important than liking.
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I think as a parent especially as you're like respect, because I'm here to help you grow in the world.
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It's going to be uncomfortable, like that's just the way it is, and and um, that's my job.
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My job isn't to be your friend.
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First you can go find friends.
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I'm the only mom you're gonna have.
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I mean and I say that today, my son has four parents that love him very much.
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Um, he knows he's loved and adored and needs for nothing.
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In fact, I just saw him this past weekend for the first time in two years, cause he's been in the military, and, um, it was just I was.
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I was like don't you need something from here or something from there?
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You need underwear, you need socks?
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What do you need?
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And he's like, mom, I don't need anything.
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I'm a sergeant in the military, I can take care of all my.
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And it's like success is so bittersweet you know what I mean Cause I'm so happy that he's successfully independent in the world and he can take care of himself, and I, I mean, I really believe he's really smart and really proud of him, and yet, at the same time, it's like I'm not needed.
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You know, like that mommy, part of me is not needed.
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And I just remember so many years ago, when it was just me and him, and but I really like for me and I guess I just want to bring this up in case there's audience members that are listening and going ah, I really want this to work out.
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I want to have this beautiful nuclear family that, uh, danielle was talking about, cause that was me.
00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:40.254
I was like, ah, you know, surely I can just make this work, I can just shut my mouth and move on with this marriage, and I think that's what really made it even worse.
00:25:40.254 --> 00:25:41.717
Is that cause?
00:25:41.717 --> 00:25:42.158
Then I would.
00:25:42.679 --> 00:25:44.323
I was no longer getting mad at him.
00:25:44.323 --> 00:26:05.234
I was getting mad at myself for putting up with all of the crap that he I felt he was putting me through all the boundaries, that he was crossing all the vows, he was breaking all these like ridiculous ways, like taking all the money out of the bank account, like all of these things that just infuriated me.
00:26:05.234 --> 00:26:11.891
I started just being really angry with myself because I was like, you know, fool me once, shame on you.
00:26:11.891 --> 00:26:14.036
Fool me a hundred times, shame on me.
00:26:14.036 --> 00:26:21.617
And, and I think that's what really tore up Like I love the idea that, michelle, that you have an amicable relationship.
00:26:22.580 --> 00:26:27.418
Ours was not so amicable, I mean, today we could be in the same room and we're going to be civil.
00:26:27.418 --> 00:26:39.218
But there was, like, when he moved across the country, his new wife wanted to take our son with him and I was like well, that's just crazy, I don't know what you're thinking there.
00:26:39.218 --> 00:26:40.836
That's not going to happen.
00:26:40.836 --> 00:27:24.337
Like, maybe when he's older and he did end up spending his high school years with his dad I said once he's older, that's fine, but he was like six at the time and I was like I've been his person, like I had custody of him most of the time and so, like I that's like all of those things started making the relationship that we had more and more challenging, to the point where I had to get to texting with just logistics because I could not have a conversation with my ex-husband because it was my opinion is that he's a proliferate liar and I don't know why he's lying to me, and it's often about silly stuff.
00:27:24.577 --> 00:27:30.115
Like I don't know why he's making this stuff up and I would get so angry about like why is he telling me this?
00:27:30.115 --> 00:27:31.018
Is this even true?
00:27:31.018 --> 00:27:32.941
What's the purpose of it?
00:27:32.941 --> 00:27:43.492
Like, and I would get so angry that I had to get to a point where it was like we just texted logistics and that made our relationship a lot better and that was one of the boundaries I put in.
00:27:43.492 --> 00:27:49.462
It was like, no, I'm not going to get on the phone call with him, I'm not going to have long conversations.
00:27:49.462 --> 00:28:00.818
If I see him at an event or a sporting event or something, of course I'll say hi, but like, if it's not logistics, that's the end of the conversation for me.
00:28:00.818 --> 00:28:02.040
So I don't.
00:28:02.040 --> 00:28:06.817
I I think that there's all different ways of how divorce can look.
00:28:06.817 --> 00:28:08.882
I guess is the point that I'm coming to.
00:28:10.250 --> 00:28:14.763
When I say we're amicable, we're amicable with as little contact as we possibly can have.
00:28:14.763 --> 00:28:16.422
So you know the school admin.
00:28:16.422 --> 00:28:20.011
It drives me insane that it never stops.
00:28:20.011 --> 00:28:25.816
So we have to constantly communicate, but it's via WhatsApp.
00:28:25.816 --> 00:28:36.102
We never phone each other but because we see each other, maybe two or three times a week, we can communicate at those times with the bigger things that we need to talk about in a bit more depth.
00:28:36.102 --> 00:28:41.105
But, yeah, it is still as little as possible.
00:28:41.184 --> 00:28:41.526
Yeah.
00:28:42.206 --> 00:28:45.468
Because you know there's a reason we're separated.
00:28:45.750 --> 00:28:50.278
I think that's really important and that's been a hard lesson for me to learn as well.
00:28:50.278 --> 00:28:59.223
My former husband and I, my children's father, he and I had a lot of communication after our separation.
00:28:59.223 --> 00:29:15.703
We had phone calls, text messages, it was sometimes FaceTime and at a certain point I started to back away a bit.
00:29:15.703 --> 00:29:31.034
I just didn't want to engage with him so much and I could feel that the reason that I was doing it, the reason that I was still engage with him so much and I could, I could feel that the reason that I was doing it, the reason that I was still communicating with him so frequently, was because I felt like if I didn't, he would get me in trouble.
00:29:31.034 --> 00:30:04.052
So, um, so I was trying to appear like a good co-parent and truthfully, in in my you know my very optimistic and hopeful mind, I felt like, yeah, like we can still, we can get divorced and we can still do like holidays together and birthdays for the kids, right, ideal scenario.
00:30:04.052 --> 00:30:08.682
And you know that would like show some unity for our children and it might feel good if, if the circumstances were different.
00:30:08.682 --> 00:30:15.225
Um, so for me, over the last two years it's had, it's been two years this month actually Um, I have.
00:30:15.405 --> 00:30:22.723
I've kind of gone through like, different levels of like removing myself from the back and forth and from the communication.
00:30:22.723 --> 00:30:36.797
Um, and then, like he kind of I can kind of sense like he adjusts to that, he gets okay with it, and then things are as they are for a bit and then, like, then I get to another point where I'm like no, you don't get to have this much access to me anymore.
00:30:36.797 --> 00:30:41.638
Like this, this no, I'm not available for a phone call about our daughter's hygiene right now.
00:30:41.638 --> 00:30:52.564
You can send me a text message about it if it's something that's urgent or, you know, maybe we can schedule a time to talk about it in another format.
00:30:52.584 --> 00:30:54.350
But it's again like the boundaries.
00:30:54.350 --> 00:31:08.797
You know, it's just been a thing for me to learn where I let people I had previously let people engage with me in ways that I felt like I didn't want them to, but I just kept being available for it.
00:31:08.797 --> 00:31:10.961
I didn't walk from it.
00:31:10.961 --> 00:31:13.054
I was like I don't like it when you do that.
00:31:13.054 --> 00:31:17.093
And then the next time I don't like it when you do that, don't do that to me.
00:31:17.093 --> 00:31:19.218
And there were never any consequences.
00:31:19.218 --> 00:31:22.711
So that that's been a very and actually just really this year.
00:31:22.711 --> 00:31:23.673
That's something that I've.
00:31:23.673 --> 00:31:42.029
I've really really come into like an embodiment with, where I'm like, oh, if someone crosses a boundary, that's my boundary, it's my job then to uphold the consequence it's not, it's not for me to go like this person just doesn't honor my boundaries.
00:31:42.029 --> 00:31:43.776
Consequence it's not, it's not for me to go like.
00:31:43.796 --> 00:31:45.421
This person just doesn't honor my boundaries, danielle, are you?
00:31:45.421 --> 00:31:46.043
Are you dating?
00:31:46.043 --> 00:31:47.890
Have you done any dating since you divorced?
00:31:49.232 --> 00:31:51.799
um, not dating so much, but I do.
00:31:51.799 --> 00:31:53.384
I do have a significant other.
00:31:53.384 --> 00:31:57.915
Um, it's kind of an unusual scenario because when I asked, like, did I date?
00:31:57.915 --> 00:32:04.161
Well, like, yes, we dated each other, um, but I didn't date anyone else besides him.
00:32:04.161 --> 00:32:10.278
We were friends before where we became a couple, so it was kind of easy and natural.
00:32:10.278 --> 00:32:12.375
Yeah, and it's a much different dynamic.
00:32:12.375 --> 00:32:15.740
This is a whole different topic that we could go down the rabbit hole with.
00:32:15.740 --> 00:32:44.626
But having been in a relationship with someone where it was like there was a lot of passion in the beginning and then not much substance underneath that, to now being in a relationship with someone where we were friends first and there was a lot of mutual respect and trust built before we engaged in a romantic relationship, it feels very different.
00:32:44.626 --> 00:32:58.966
It feels at the risk of sounding a bit cheesy it just feels much more safe and secure, which is really something that I had been wanting for a long time, anyway, and was looking for in all the wrong places.
00:32:59.290 --> 00:33:05.210
Was looking for in all the wrong places.
00:33:05.210 --> 00:33:22.318
I loved what you were saying about what you're learning about yourself, because if there is one really huge benefit to getting divorced, is that in those five years of being angry and the therapy after is when I learned a lot about myself.
00:33:22.318 --> 00:33:25.254
What is it that I want, what is it that I need?
00:33:25.254 --> 00:33:35.702
And I told you how, like some of my friends started thinking I was a man hater and it was because they were like, oh, no man's ever going to be good enough for you now.
00:33:35.702 --> 00:33:39.601
And I was like, well, that's not true, like I'd hate to believe that that's true.
00:33:40.250 --> 00:34:10.751
And so one night, probably after a few too many glasses of wine, I wrote down a list of like what I wanted out of a partner, and not like six, two and brown hair, nothing like that, but like that he was going to take my child and like he was going to father him properly, cause I had a stepfather and it seemed like the stepchildren were always in a war by the parents, like the parents were pitting us against each other, and so I didn't want it to be that way.
00:34:10.751 --> 00:34:22.483
And there was like some other qualities that I wrote down and it was like we were moving in together right before we got married and I found this list and he checked every box.
00:34:22.483 --> 00:34:33.297
So, like that was me learning about myself and saying, no, I'm not going to put up with any of this unless it shows up the way that I want it to.
00:34:33.437 --> 00:34:36.242
And if it doesn't, then it's not worth it.
00:34:36.242 --> 00:34:37.253
And then he didn't even.
00:34:37.253 --> 00:34:50.013
And I did do some dating, but my son got introduced to no one except for my husband because that was a separate life until I knew that there was actually going to be something long-term and stable.
00:34:50.013 --> 00:34:52.257
I didn't.
00:34:52.257 --> 00:34:58.794
I mean, I dated, but not seriously enough to introduce my son to any of them except for my husband.
00:34:58.794 --> 00:35:00.798
And so there is.
00:35:01.099 --> 00:35:30.066
There was a lot of work between that, though, on myself, um, around these things that we've been talking about boundaries, knowing who I am, what it is that I want, how I want to be treated, and then, you know, ensuring that I am treated that way or that there's consequences, Um, you can't just have access to my time, like Danielle was saying, unlimited, and especially if you're going to, it's not going to be a beneficial conversation for me.
00:35:30.066 --> 00:35:33.354
Then you absolutely don't have access to me anymore.
00:35:33.354 --> 00:35:50.624
And I didn't know, I don't think I knew before my divorce that that was something I could do with people, because you know, I had a mother same thing she would like, she crossed boundaries all the time, and I just thought I had to allow that to happen, because that's just life, right, that's just people.
00:35:50.624 --> 00:35:58.304
And if you want to have relationships with these people, but you can actually change your relationship by engaging in them differently.
00:35:58.750 --> 00:36:02.178
Yeah, it's, um, it's, funnily enough, changed my relationship.
00:36:02.178 --> 00:36:06.155
So my mum died, funnily enough, at the beginning of last year.
00:36:06.155 --> 00:36:10.995
So it was a bit of a big year last year, huge, emotional year.
00:36:10.995 --> 00:36:15.470
But my, my, my mum and dad separated when I was very young and both remarried.
00:36:15.470 --> 00:36:18.438
So I still have a stepdad, a dad and a stepmom.
00:36:18.438 --> 00:36:29.300
My dad and my stepmom live very close to me so I've always had a relationship with them and but it's changed actually since I got or separated.
00:36:29.300 --> 00:36:37.058
I'm closer to them but they have tried to, you know, step on my boundaries a little bit.
00:36:37.058 --> 00:36:50.530
But I'm more confident now probably more so now than I ever was when I was with my husband to say, actually I don't like it when you do X, y or Z, which I don't think I'd have done before.
00:36:50.530 --> 00:36:53.275
So, yeah, maybe the whole thing is just.
00:36:53.275 --> 00:36:57.624
It does just change your mindset a little bit of I don't have to accept this.
00:36:57.624 --> 00:37:00.697
I'm just going to turn the light on on.
00:37:00.697 --> 00:37:02.201
It's getting dark here in the UK.
00:37:05.896 --> 00:37:08.440
I did not even think about that when we first sat down.
00:37:08.961 --> 00:37:20.461
I'm sorry and I just think that that's such a good point, though, like because it's also like it's like the double whammy, because I also feel like midlife is a time where we start going.
00:37:20.461 --> 00:37:51.475
I'm actually going to get real with myself because I'm halfway done now and I always see like the first half of my life was like what I thought I should do right, I should go get a college degree and a job and a blah and the kid and the husband, the old things and now it's like well, I want the second half to be what I want it to be, and if it's going to be what I want it to be, that means I have to have higher standards for things, not just my partner, but like higher standards for myself.
00:37:51.475 --> 00:38:14.743
Even like I'm, you know, I'm not going to drink as much alcohol as maybe I would have wanted to, but I can't because of perimenopause and because I'm aging and I want to feel better in my body, and so there's boundaries not just with other people, but there's also boundaries within myself, and I become a lot stronger in being able to handle myself in all those ways.
00:38:14.743 --> 00:38:21.723
And I I do believe that it started with the divorce, because without that divorce being so hard and so harsh.
00:38:21.723 --> 00:38:29.543
I don't know that I ever would have gone to therapy, um, and that was really high opening for me.
00:38:29.703 --> 00:38:43.601
And then, of course, in the last 15 years, I've also sat in a lot of women's circles, which is amazingly healing to be able to um talk and hear other, just like we're doing today.
00:38:43.601 --> 00:38:56.365
There's people out there listening to this that are like, ah, I'm not alone, like it's okay if I leave my marriage, you know, and I don't think that that was okay for all of us back then.
00:38:56.365 --> 00:39:04.955
And I'm here to offer hope that, like, I have a, really I've been married for 12 years now and it's a fantastic marriage.
00:39:04.955 --> 00:39:27.757
And it's a fantastic marriage because we both do our own work and then when we come together, we're clear, we're better at communication, we have the hard conversations, we're very vulnerable with each other, and that makes that makes a huge difference, um, so, yeah, with that, we're just about coming to our time.
00:39:27.757 --> 00:39:39.044
So if each of you could offer one piece of wisdom or a takeaway from this conversation and um share with us how we can connect with you, that'd be great.
00:39:39.044 --> 00:39:40.335
Michelle, you want to go first?
00:39:40.958 --> 00:39:56.213
Sure, so I'm still very early on in my journey, um, we officially separated about just over a year ago, um, and I only moved out half a year ago just over half a year ago and and got my own space.
00:39:56.213 --> 00:40:20.079
So I think my kind of word of wisdom is when you first move into your own space, when you first get that space that is your own, it's going to feel absolutely uncomfortable, weird, and, no matter how much you desired it, it's still going to be a very, very strange, surreal time in your life.
00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:24.185
Allow it, just let yourself go.
00:40:24.185 --> 00:40:30.391
Okay, this is really odd.
00:40:30.411 --> 00:40:36.870
I don't know what to do, because I get the luxury now of spare time which I never had before, and it took me months to get to the stage where I started enjoying my life.
00:40:36.870 --> 00:40:39.154
But I now say so, I'm now.
00:40:39.154 --> 00:40:40.917
You know where are we?
00:40:40.917 --> 00:40:46.705
September now, so nine months into being separated and having that luxury of my own space.
00:40:46.705 --> 00:40:53.004
And I do call it luxury because actually I'm a better parent for having a break from my children.
00:40:53.004 --> 00:40:59.383
So don't feel the guilt as such, but I would now say I've never been happier than what I am right now.
00:40:59.383 --> 00:41:05.634
I've never been happier than what I am right now.
00:41:05.634 --> 00:41:06.015
I would say that.
00:41:06.015 --> 00:41:06.738
So give yourself the time to adjust.
00:41:06.738 --> 00:41:08.685
It is okay to not be instantly happy, because I thought I would be.
00:41:09.548 --> 00:41:13.540
I thought getting out of that space would make me instantly happy it didn't happen quite like that.
00:41:13.540 --> 00:41:15.271
It took a long time to get to that stage.
00:41:16.352 --> 00:41:21.875
Yeah yeah, Healing is not an overnight process unfortunately.
00:41:21.896 --> 00:41:22.836
Yeah healing is not an overnight process.
00:41:22.856 --> 00:41:31.002
Unfortunately, and even when we know that the situation isn't right for us, there's still healing that needs to happen, and I think that that's so important.
00:41:31.002 --> 00:41:32.283
Thanks for sharing that.
00:41:32.903 --> 00:41:38.427
And I am also in therapy and it's really helping me.
00:41:38.427 --> 00:41:47.733
As for how to contact me, so I'm on Best Way is on TikTok, which my handle on there is michellehaslam, but yeah, that's where I live.
00:41:47.753 --> 00:42:04.057
Thanks, michelle, thank you, and Danielle, yes, so I think one of my biggest lessons in the last two years has been to reframe what I see, or what I believe is success for myself.
00:42:04.057 --> 00:42:24.456
Um, and you know, having the nuclear family, having the big home that we built together was a custom 5,000 square foot home on five acres of land, all of the all of the material things um had kind of tricked me into believing like I've achieved, I've achieved the success, right, I've, I've gotten there, I've made it.
00:42:24.456 --> 00:42:48.032
And then ending that relationship has meant that I don't have all those physical things anymore that I had tied my self-worth, my self-esteem and my you know my version or my definition of success to Um and, and truthfully, I knew this before leaving the relationship.
00:42:48.032 --> 00:42:55.912
But there was a point in time where, like it just kind of hit me, like I walked away from all of that.
00:42:56.533 --> 00:42:59.479
What have I done and who am I now?
00:42:59.479 --> 00:43:08.516
Um, but but I, actually, prior to making the decision to end the marriage, I really felt like this is not success to me.
00:43:08.516 --> 00:43:10.821
What's happening here?
00:43:10.821 --> 00:43:16.174
This is a, this is a facade, and I don't live behind the facade anymore.
00:43:16.174 --> 00:43:34.556
So it can feel very vulnerable and can feel very vulnerable and um, and sometimes um, uncomfortable, right, uncomfortable, um, but I I just know like okay, that's, that's, that's okay, that's a part of um having an authentic life.
00:43:34.556 --> 00:43:41.336
What I actually said that I wanted before, which was integrity and um and honesty and um trust.
00:43:41.516 --> 00:43:52.996
And it's like what we put out there right On Instagram is like it's a great Instagram story, right, it's a pretty picture, but we really don't know what's going on behind that pretty picture.
00:43:52.996 --> 00:43:54.940
Yeah, how can people?
00:43:54.961 --> 00:43:55.923
contact you, danielle.
00:43:55.923 --> 00:43:57.252
Oh, thank you.
00:43:57.252 --> 00:44:00.218
Yeah, instagram actually is a great place to connect with me.
00:44:00.218 --> 00:44:04.767
Or on Facebook yeah, instagram actually is a great place to connect with me.
00:44:04.767 --> 00:44:05.829
Or on Facebook.
00:44:05.829 --> 00:44:06.130
I'm at Dr.
00:44:08.450 --> 00:44:09.695
Danielle Angela on both of those platforms.
00:44:09.695 --> 00:44:10.096
Awesome, awesome.
00:44:10.096 --> 00:44:11.000
I will make sure that those links are below.
00:44:11.020 --> 00:44:32.514
I think if I was going to give one piece of wisdom is, when you have a divorce, have a dream funeral, like there is a grief even if even if it was awful relationship, even if you're parting on terrible terms or like celebratory thank God I'm out of that kind of terms there is still a life that we imagined that we would have.
00:44:32.514 --> 00:44:34.177
That is no longer.
00:44:34.177 --> 00:44:34.578
That.
00:44:34.578 --> 00:44:40.096
It changes, it's different, right, it's not how we imagined it, especially on the day that we got married.
00:44:40.798 --> 00:44:50.076
So for me, one of the things that has been really helpful is like writing down all the things that I thought would be, or the worries that I had for my son.
00:44:50.076 --> 00:45:02.798
You know, being in a divorced home and everything in a broken home, like and letting go of those things in some kind of ritualistic way, was really, really helpful for me to grieve it.
00:45:02.798 --> 00:45:13.577
Right, because all that anger I had, I believe, was really just grief that was underneath between being angry at him, being angry at myself and being really sad for my son.
00:45:13.577 --> 00:45:19.456
All right, women, thank you so much for being here and talking about this very hard topic.
00:45:19.456 --> 00:45:35.877
I know that not most of us want to sit around and talk about the war because it's so much and it's so heavy, and so I really appreciate the fact that you um, you two were really brave to come on and just share what's happened for you and audience.
00:45:35.877 --> 00:45:37.603
Thank you so much for tuning in.
00:45:37.603 --> 00:45:39.149
We'll talk to you again next week.