Zander Sprague: Grief, Sibling Loss, and the Internal Shift Toward Healing

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Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie
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Longo, Transformational Coach. This show explores
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how the way we think, decide, and respond internally
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influences where we end up over time. Today's
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conversation draws on real experience and expertise
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to look at how small internal shifts can change
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direction, momentum, and outcomes. I'm joined
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by a very special guest today, Xander Sprague.
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Xander, good afternoon. Welcome to the show.
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Thank you so much for having me on, Debbie. Thank
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you for being here. I'm going to ask you to tell
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your story today and point out a part in your
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story where you were went through a change a
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life change or a traumatic experience or something
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like that and you went through a process and
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you came out the other side and that. And results
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should always be positive or the result of whatever
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it is that we're talking about. Now, I do this
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show for a few different reasons. And one reason
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is that everybody has their own individual story.
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But there are stories that people can relate
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to and other people's stories. Now, maybe somebody
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is stuck in a situation that they are in or a
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scenario. Maybe somebody thinks that. this is
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gonna be normal. This is the way that their life
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is gonna be. Maybe somebody doesn't know how
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to get out of a certain situation that they're
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in. It could be even just a problem or a feeling
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or just a thought. It could be anything. That's
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the reason why I do this show and also for education.
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So somebody could say, wow, I'm going through
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this same thing and this person got through this
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and it doesn't sound so bad. It sounds like I
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can get through it. It sounds like I can go I
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can do it So also for motivation. So these are
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some of the reasons why I have it So if you could
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please do that for me, thank you. I would appreciate
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it. Absolutely so the thing I wanted to talk
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about was 29 years ago, my older sister Lucy
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was murdered and there were that was in 1996
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and There are many things I thought I might deal
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with in my life But to be honest, murder really
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was not one of them. I remember when I got the
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phone call from my father, my father was a, was
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a good storyteller and it took them a long time
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to get to the point. There were a lot of details,
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which looking back for perhaps superfluous, but
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I get why, you know, why it took so long. This
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was obviously incredibly difficult to tell. myself
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and to tell my younger sister, but I just never
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in a million years would have thought that that
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would have happened. And I remember driving in
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at the time I was living in just outside of Boston.
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I was driving into my parents' house in Boston.
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I was thinking about all the things that I was
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going to have to do because this, I knew this
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was the worst possible thing that could have
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happened to my parents. And I thought they'd
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sort of be catatonic in the corner. Well, luckily
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my parents, were a lot more resilient than I
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gave them credit. Funny how kids always think
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their parents aren't resilient, and yet we are.
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So it was a really, I mean, it's devastating
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to lose a sibling. And I didn't even know how
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to really process that. The next day, my father
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and I had to fly to Chicago where my sister was
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living and was murdered. And we had to talk to
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the police and the DA. We had to go identify
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our body. All of this incredibly traumatic and
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it was overwhelming. And so after we get through
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the funeral and all of that, honestly, it felt
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like I fell off a cliff. I went from having too
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many people around to having no one around as
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I started to navigate my way through. How am
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I going to start to heal? I discovered that there's
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not. A lot of resources for siblings. Uh, one
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of the experiences I had and honestly still have
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not as much, but I, I, a lot of people knew,
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knew my family from Boston. People would see
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me on the street and go, Oh my gosh, Zen or how
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are your parents? Now one person asked how I
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was. And I had, I had these moments where I thought
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my loss was less significant than my parents.
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And the fact of the matter is that, no, it's
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not less significant. It's equally as, it's equally
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as significant. Just a few facts. The longest
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relationships we have in our life are with our
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siblings. We reasonably expect that that relationship,
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barring someone having a known illness or something
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is going to last the majority of our lifetime.
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I was 28. Lucy was 30. A really important chapter
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ended. At first it was really hard. It was a
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struggle just to get out of bed. I was so tired.
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The depression was there. One of the things that
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I discovered that really helped was even though
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it was really hard, I got myself back into the
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gym. I started to exercise and exercises. It's
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so important to break that circle of depression.
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Cause what happens is you feel depressed, which
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makes you tired, which makes you sleep more,
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which makes you more depressed, which just keeps
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the circle going. And I found. That once I started
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to exercise again, that I was kind of breaking
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that cycle because while exercise releases endorphins,
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that's our natural antidepressant. One of those
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big moments for me was on the Massachusetts turnpike,
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where it's probably about four months into my
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journey, where I had been struggling with why
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did this happen? Really just kept circling around
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on that. And I just had a moment of clarity where
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I'm like, I'm not going to have the answer to
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that question. So I need to let go of that because
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I will spend the rest of my life trying to find
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that answer. And I'm not, I'm just not going
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to have that answer. I need to let go of that.
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And when I had that moment, it was like this
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weight was lifted off of me. I wasn't just stuck
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in this circle and I was able to start to move
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forward. Let's fast forward a little. I was,
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I moved out, out to San Francisco. I love San
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Francisco Bay area. It's where I live. And I
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had coffee with a friend of mine. And as probably
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about four years after Lucy was killed, she had
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just lost her brother and I was just someone
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from college. I was like, let me be there to
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support you. I know how this is. And like any
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traumatic or, or hard event, it's always. Nice
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to be able to talk to someone else who's who's
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going through this. There's so much of that conversation
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that you get to have where you get to talk about
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the things that you really want to talk about
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and your friends are great. You're your friends
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really want to help you. But when you have to
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spend 20 minutes explaining where you're coming
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from to get to the thing that you want to talk
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about, they just can't, they don't know. I mean,
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it's, it's like trying to explain what's like
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what it is to. play in snow. If you've never
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done it, I could be really descriptive, but if
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you haven't done it, you don't know. But she
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said something interesting. She said, I, I went
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to the bookstore and there were lots of books
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on loss of a parent, loss of a child, loss of
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a pet, but there was really nothing on loss of
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a sibling. And as I walked away from that, I
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had another one of those aha moments. I'm like,
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well, I know about that. So I wrote a book because
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I was like, I don't want other sibling survivors
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to have to go through this. Like there's, there's
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gotta be help. And maybe I'm part of that help.
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So I wrote the book and first of all, let me
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say, I'm a talker, not a typer. So I had to figure
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out how to write a book, end up dictating the
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book. And it was really cathartic to be able
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to write about my experience. I reached out to
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friends of mine who had also lost siblings and,
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and they were nice enough to answer some questions.
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So there was sort of a, there was a good resource
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for, for people. And then I sat on the book for
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five years because I was afraid to release it.
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I was afraid people wouldn't like it. And that's
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an important part of the journey for me, the
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fear of, of actually putting out into the world.
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about what happened. I was really scared, but
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I got tired of hearing myself say, I'm coming
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out with a book because I wasn't, I wasn't doing
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anything to make it happen. And I think that's
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true for a lot of things. We say we can do something,
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but if we're not actually doing it, then we're
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not. So I released the book, surprisingly, or
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to my own surprise, people liked it. And that
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actually started me on this whole journey of
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really working to advocate for sibling survivors
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to help get the word out. I really want for people
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who've lost a brother or sister to know that
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help is available, that there are resources to
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change that conversation. So it's not, how are
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your parents, but how is the family doing? How
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are the siblings doing? Cause it's so hard. It
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feels really lonely. It was really hard that
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my grief wasn't acknowledged. I struggled with
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that. Like, as I said, that idea that I somehow,
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my loss was less significant and it's not, here's
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just a startling statistic for you. In the United
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States, there's over 1 .3 million new sibling
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survivors every single year. My book came out
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in first edition, came out in 2008. So there's
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roughly 18 million new sibling survivors since
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my book came out. That's a lot of people. And
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there are. To not know where, where you can go
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and talk to people who, who get it. I often joke
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that I'm walking down the street, but I don't
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have, there's no pen I wear. There's no secret
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handshake or hand signal to say I'm a sibling
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survivor. Cause I guarantee when I'm, when I'm
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just out and about and I'm talking to people
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and I. I share about Lucy. So many people are
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like, Oh, I lost my brother or sister. And sadly,
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a lot of times I'm one of the first people they've
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got gotten to talk about their loss. Some families
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simply don't even acknowledge that that person
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was ever alive. There's no pictures. They don't
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talk about the birthday. They don't talk about
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them. And that can be really hard. I think a
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lot of people need to talk through, talk about
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their loss, what they're feeling, what they miss.
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Look, I don't canonize my sister. She was a fantastic
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person, but there were days where she was really
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not nice to me. And that is true of any sibling
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relationship. One of the things I discovered
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is both my sisters are some of my best friends.
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They know me better than I know myself, and I
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know them better than they know themselves. And
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think about like, With with your siblings when
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you guys when you get into an argument, you don't
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start off nice You you swing for the fences,
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you know, you have the dirt on them. They have
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the dirt on you You're throwing the things that
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you know is going to to hurt them the thing that
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they're embarrassed about that they don't want
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to admit and When that's gone, it's so hard.
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There's just those conversations as I'm getting
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older And my mom is aging. It's great to be able
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to talk to my younger sister about what's going
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on or when parents inevitably annoy you or get
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on you about something. And for some people,
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there were only two children and one of them
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died. So now they have no one else. One of the
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things that I discovered was that there were
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new expectations for me. I was the middle child.
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It was great. I tucked him behind Lucy. I got
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to watch her make all kinds of mistakes and like,
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well, I'm not going to do it that way. Now all
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of a sudden I'm the oldest child, depending on
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what your family, how your family is and perhaps
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culture or religion, the oldest child, there
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are certain expectations. I all of a sudden got,
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I had a job at 28 that I had no training for,
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you know, that, that journey is difficult. Everyone's
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grief journey is different. And there isn't any
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right way to do it. I'll tell you the one question
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that people still say to me. And I'm like, wow,
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I wish people wouldn't say this. People say,
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Oh, you're not over losing your sister. No, I'm
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never going to be over losing Lucy. I say that
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and people, people smile and they laugh and go,
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well, of course. And yet people still say it
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to me 29 years later. And I'm like, no, what
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I like to say is. I'm working my way through
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the loss some days better than others. I talk
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about Lucy almost every day. In part, that's
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my own choice to say every day I have a choice
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whether I want to talk about Lucy. And for me,
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that's how I keep her alive in my life. My family
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and I have a charitable foundation in Lucy's
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memory. And we do all these really cool things
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in Lucy's memory. And it feels so much better
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to celebrate the rainbow that was Lucy's life.
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And support causes that Lucy either, we know
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she liked, or we're like, no, we, we think Lucy
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would, would like this and would want us to support
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this. It feels so much better to do that than
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to just focus on the fact that my sister was
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murdered. I lost her. She's not here. Yeah. That
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doesn't change. That will never change. That
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dot at the end, that blacked out at the end.
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Yeah, that happened, but you want to know she
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was a light for 30 years. There's, there's, there's
00:14:21.559 --> 00:14:25.090
all this. stuff that she did and who she was.
00:14:25.929 --> 00:14:30.250
And I'm like, it feels good to do, to do these
00:14:30.250 --> 00:14:33.610
things. It's so much more positive to say, yes,
00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:37.230
my sister died, but here's other stuff I'm doing.
00:14:37.830 --> 00:14:41.110
I say all the time, I'm just a little busier
00:14:41.110 --> 00:14:44.409
because I'm doing some extra work for Lucy. And
00:14:44.409 --> 00:14:47.889
a big part of the work I just do in general is
00:14:47.889 --> 00:14:52.230
around, as I said, supporting other sibling survivors.
00:14:52.789 --> 00:14:55.470
One of the things that I discovered 19 years
00:14:55.470 --> 00:14:57.450
into my journey. And I have to say, I wish I
00:14:57.450 --> 00:15:00.629
would have known about this a lot, a lot sooner
00:15:00.629 --> 00:15:03.830
is a great organization called the compassionate
00:15:03.830 --> 00:15:06.809
friends, which is for families that have lost
00:15:06.809 --> 00:15:11.909
a child or a sibling. And I currently full disclosure,
00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:14.490
I am the sibling representative on the board
00:15:14.490 --> 00:15:18.230
of directors, but I love this organization. It
00:15:18.230 --> 00:15:23.470
is so great. to get to be in, in rooms with other
00:15:23.470 --> 00:15:25.830
sibling survivors. And again, people who get
00:15:25.830 --> 00:15:29.389
me, who see me, who acknowledge my grief, get
00:15:29.389 --> 00:15:31.789
to talk to people about the stuff that's going
00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:35.210
on that comes up, just all of those things. One
00:15:35.210 --> 00:15:37.809
of the things that was really challenging and
00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:41.350
less so now, cause I think they say time heals
00:15:41.350 --> 00:15:44.350
and I don't know that it heals so much as you
00:15:44.350 --> 00:15:47.700
just get more tools. that allow you to be able
00:15:47.700 --> 00:15:50.080
to more effectively deal with what's coming up.
00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.779
But one of the things that happens all the time
00:15:52.779 --> 00:15:56.840
is you have those unexpected reminders of your
00:15:56.840 --> 00:15:59.860
person. It could be a song on the radio. It could
00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:03.960
be some kind, you know, could be perfume or cologne
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:07.539
or a scent of food, something, something, some
00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:11.100
place that, that you go and that can derail your
00:16:11.100 --> 00:16:14.720
day. And that certainly happened to me the first
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:18.539
Probably five years I'd be going along fine and
00:16:18.539 --> 00:16:20.799
something song would come on the radio and then
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:23.679
all of a sudden It was a really hard day and
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:26.899
I found myself crying Fun fact about crying.
00:16:26.899 --> 00:16:29.460
It's actually really good for us because when
00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:33.879
we cry We have stress hormones that are coming
00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:35.679
out through our tears that we're now getting
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.879
out So it's actually a really good thing for
00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.919
us to to cry in supporting someone who's lost
00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:46.860
a sibling Or anyone who's lost has some kind
00:16:46.860 --> 00:16:48.879
of a loss and it just doesn't have to be death.
00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.259
It could be end of a relationship, job, a pet,
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.659
something. If someone wants to cry, it's not
00:16:55.659 --> 00:16:58.519
comfortable. But if you just sit there and gently
00:16:58.519 --> 00:17:01.860
hold the space for them, it can be so helpful.
00:17:02.460 --> 00:17:06.460
It was really hard. Those days I was having a
00:17:06.460 --> 00:17:09.180
challenging time and my friends didn't know how
00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:12.329
to deal with it. And they bailed. So now I felt
00:17:12.329 --> 00:17:15.150
even more alone. I felt embarrassed that I had
00:17:15.150 --> 00:17:17.789
the, that I was being emotional, but I couldn't
00:17:17.789 --> 00:17:21.470
help it. It was normal. I say to people all the
00:17:21.470 --> 00:17:23.849
time, you don't have a miracle sentence that
00:17:23.849 --> 00:17:26.470
will make it better for me. And I don't have
00:17:26.470 --> 00:17:29.250
a miracle sentence for you, but that's okay.
00:17:29.509 --> 00:17:32.930
Sometimes even though it doesn't feel enough,
00:17:33.210 --> 00:17:36.069
just saying, I'm so sorry for your loss, that
00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:40.200
acknowledgement that you, that they've experience
00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:43.579
something that's challenging is so important.
00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:49.480
And it is so, yeah, I mean, I just go back to
00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:53.680
acknowledgement of loss is, is important. Um,
00:17:53.700 --> 00:17:57.019
I could never do a study to, to, to point towards
00:17:57.019 --> 00:18:00.720
causality or something, but my experience over
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.619
the last 29 years is that unacknowledged grief
00:18:04.619 --> 00:18:09.849
has this profound effect on people. And it can
00:18:09.849 --> 00:18:15.390
lead to some not so healthy behaviors as a way
00:18:15.390 --> 00:18:18.569
to cope with it. And perhaps if we all just said,
00:18:18.569 --> 00:18:21.650
I'm so sorry for your loss. You don't have to
00:18:21.650 --> 00:18:24.269
look again. What can someone say that will make
00:18:24.269 --> 00:18:27.970
it better? We don't have that here in the United
00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:31.910
States. I have to say we are absolutely horrible
00:18:31.910 --> 00:18:34.349
at dealing with death. We sort of treat it like
00:18:34.349 --> 00:18:37.069
it's the most communicable disease in the world.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.960
Oh, Debbie, you, you, you experienced death.
00:18:41.259 --> 00:18:44.339
If I talk to you, it might rub off on me and,
00:18:44.519 --> 00:18:46.740
and, and so we'll talk. No, that's not the way
00:18:46.740 --> 00:18:51.000
that that actually works. Okay. My sister was
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:52.920
murdered. If you got close to me and talk to
00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:55.220
me, that doesn't mean that someone in your family
00:18:55.220 --> 00:18:57.539
is now going to get murdered. It's they just
00:18:57.539 --> 00:19:00.720
doesn't work that way. So talk to people. I'm
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.299
a really social person. When I went back to work,
00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:06.670
everyone knew about it. Uh, this was. All over
00:19:06.670 --> 00:19:09.950
the news, all my colleagues knew about it and
00:19:09.950 --> 00:19:11.890
they'd come up and they'd sort of pause at my
00:19:11.890 --> 00:19:14.329
cube and then they'd walk on. And I was sort
00:19:14.329 --> 00:19:16.589
of prepared for people to talk to me, but then
00:19:16.589 --> 00:19:19.809
they didn't talk to me. And for me personally,
00:19:19.930 --> 00:19:21.769
it was like the worst possible torture of people
00:19:21.769 --> 00:19:24.329
not talking to me. So I put up a sign that said,
00:19:24.529 --> 00:19:27.890
it's okay to talk to me. I just gave people permission
00:19:27.890 --> 00:19:30.730
to talk to me. And then people did. They started
00:19:30.730 --> 00:19:34.299
to talk to me. Yeah, that was good. So what was
00:19:34.299 --> 00:19:39.099
your process when you lost the sibling? Now we're
00:19:39.099 --> 00:19:42.160
going to go all the way fast forward when you
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.240
wrote the book or when you were thinking about
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.819
writing the book. What was your feelings? What
00:19:48.819 --> 00:19:51.779
was your thinking? How did you go through? I
00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:54.039
don't know how many years it was, but how did
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:57.859
you go through that part of the process from
00:19:57.859 --> 00:20:00.099
whatever it is that you could think of? You mean
00:20:00.099 --> 00:20:02.339
from when I lost Lucy, do when I started to write
00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:04.960
the book or when you started to think about writing
00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:07.220
the book, when you, I mean, I honestly started
00:20:07.220 --> 00:20:09.279
to think about writing the book as I was walking
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:11.700
away from this coffee shop because I'm like,
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:15.240
Oh, I know that I could write a book about that.
00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:18.079
And then I went home and I actually just sat
00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:21.099
down and kind of wrote out a rough outline. But
00:20:21.099 --> 00:20:23.839
that process in between that, I mean, the first
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:29.380
thing was getting To in the movie Sleepless in
00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:33.299
Seattle, Tom Hanks gets on the phone with the
00:20:33.299 --> 00:20:36.400
radio psychologist and she asks how he's doing
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:40.039
and he says, well, I'm breathing in and I'm breathing
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:42.579
out and pretty soon I won't have to think about
00:20:42.579 --> 00:20:45.819
that. And that really stuck with me when I was
00:20:45.819 --> 00:20:47.700
going through this. Cause that literally was
00:20:47.700 --> 00:20:50.400
where I was at. I got to, I got to remember to
00:20:50.400 --> 00:20:54.539
breathe here. This feels so overwhelming. And
00:20:54.539 --> 00:20:58.549
then. With a little time, I was able to not think
00:20:58.549 --> 00:21:03.329
about breathing and to move on. As I said, letting
00:21:03.329 --> 00:21:07.269
go of the why did this happen was a huge step
00:21:07.269 --> 00:21:11.049
for me. When I'm talking with other sibling survivors,
00:21:11.089 --> 00:21:14.150
sometimes they're just stuck at why did this
00:21:14.150 --> 00:21:18.650
happen? I try and share what my own thought process,
00:21:18.690 --> 00:21:21.069
which is I'm not going to know this. This just
00:21:21.069 --> 00:21:24.910
isn't something I'm going to have an answer for.
00:21:25.109 --> 00:21:28.970
Depending on what your own belief system is,
00:21:29.069 --> 00:21:30.970
perhaps you say, all right, when I die, maybe
00:21:30.970 --> 00:21:34.990
I'll find out. But along the way, I went to therapy
00:21:34.990 --> 00:21:37.829
because I wanted a safe place to talk about it.
00:21:37.829 --> 00:21:40.150
I wanted to make sure I felt like I was doing
00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:44.789
okay, but I wanted some professional licensed
00:21:44.789 --> 00:21:48.750
mental health help to just make sure I was actually
00:21:48.750 --> 00:21:53.009
processing things well. Some people pull that
00:21:53.009 --> 00:21:55.930
proverbial blanket over their head and don't
00:21:55.930 --> 00:21:58.670
deal with it. But here's life goes on, whether
00:21:58.670 --> 00:22:02.490
we participate today or not, our life is still
00:22:02.490 --> 00:22:05.890
going on. And if you sort of don't want to deal
00:22:05.890 --> 00:22:07.910
with it for 10 years, you want to know what 10
00:22:07.910 --> 00:22:12.450
years has gone by. And I wanted to figure out
00:22:12.450 --> 00:22:16.470
how I could deal with this. I wanted to talk.
00:22:16.829 --> 00:22:20.740
I wanted to figure out how I could. Pull out
00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:24.279
those memories of Lucy and not have it be sort
00:22:24.279 --> 00:22:27.339
of like the life raft that you pull the cord
00:22:27.339 --> 00:22:30.299
on and all of a sudden it just fills up the whole
00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:32.680
space you're in. And that's how it was at the
00:22:32.680 --> 00:22:36.460
beginning. As I said, some unexpected reminder
00:22:36.460 --> 00:22:40.839
would just derail the day. My dad, probably about
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:43.900
nine months after Lucy died, I called him one
00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:46.359
day. I was just talking to him and I asked how
00:22:46.359 --> 00:22:48.519
his day was. He goes, Well, it was going pretty
00:22:48.519 --> 00:22:51.460
good until I put my hand in this jacket and I
00:22:51.460 --> 00:22:56.440
pulled, I had a, a matchbook from a diner he'd
00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:59.859
gone to with Lucy a year before she died. And
00:22:59.859 --> 00:23:03.140
he, and he's like, am I day my deal like half
00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:06.720
my day derailed? I was just so sad about it.
00:23:06.900 --> 00:23:09.759
I missed her so much. And my, and my family and
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:13.279
I honestly, for the last 29 years have talked
00:23:13.279 --> 00:23:17.049
about. Lucy, we tell the stories, the good and
00:23:17.049 --> 00:23:20.589
the bad. And I think that's important. I think
00:23:20.589 --> 00:23:25.089
talking about who this person is helps keep them
00:23:25.089 --> 00:23:29.490
alive in your, in your life. That's so important.
00:23:29.490 --> 00:23:34.690
That's how we remember people is to talk about
00:23:34.690 --> 00:23:38.490
them or do things. One of the things I did on
00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:43.700
my healing journey was I did a, Created a basically
00:23:43.700 --> 00:23:49.099
a music video to a song that was around in 1997
00:23:49.099 --> 00:23:52.640
called gone away by the offspring. And it's sort
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.599
of a whole song about loss. And one of the lines
00:23:55.599 --> 00:23:58.839
is you're up in heaven and I would trade if I
00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:01.700
could, like, I miss you so bad. I, I mean, I
00:24:01.700 --> 00:24:06.500
would trade and I went around the town. I took
00:24:06.500 --> 00:24:09.450
video of. The town that we grew up in Massachusetts
00:24:09.450 --> 00:24:12.809
and the schools that Lucy went to and other places.
00:24:12.970 --> 00:24:16.029
And for me, that was incredibly cathartic. Writing
00:24:16.029 --> 00:24:19.089
the book was really cathartic. I got to sit down
00:24:19.089 --> 00:24:23.230
and talk about all of the process. Part of the,
00:24:23.230 --> 00:24:26.730
one of the things I talk about in the book is
00:24:26.990 --> 00:24:30.809
Not receiving lines before I lost Lucy, I thought
00:24:30.809 --> 00:24:34.450
receiving lines were the most barbaric thing.
00:24:34.450 --> 00:24:37.410
I mean, what could I possibly do in this poor
00:24:37.410 --> 00:24:40.970
family? And there's all these people coming through.
00:24:41.490 --> 00:24:44.690
But when I went through it, I actually found
00:24:44.690 --> 00:24:49.309
it to be cathartic, very, actually I felt more
00:24:49.309 --> 00:24:52.470
energized because here were all these people
00:24:52.470 --> 00:24:56.460
who knew Lucy. And the receiving line serves
00:24:56.460 --> 00:25:00.440
this dual purpose of both sides getting their
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:04.119
their loss acknowledged. And that was really
00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:08.640
powerful. Yeah. So I just want to say talk a
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:13.319
little bit and then close when people go through
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.779
like you were describing any type of loss. What
00:25:16.779 --> 00:25:19.640
happens is that it's a loss, right? You lose
00:25:19.640 --> 00:25:23.960
something. Yes. So now the person might be like,
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:27.799
that's not part of my life anymore. So now the
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:31.279
person has to make a different life or go on
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.119
without that person or that thing or whatever
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:40.220
it is. Now, the thing with that is, to me, that's
00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:45.119
just a matter of conforming to that new life,
00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:48.940
to that new behavior. And that has a lot to do
00:25:48.940 --> 00:25:53.740
with acceptance. So now I am accepting that This
00:25:53.740 --> 00:25:56.740
person or thing is no longer here. And now I
00:25:56.740 --> 00:25:59.200
have to have a new life. And this is just how
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:01.359
it is. This is the way that my life is going
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:05.500
to be. And now I'm going on a completely different
00:26:05.500 --> 00:26:09.099
direction. So because that person's not here,
00:26:09.559 --> 00:26:12.240
my life would have been different if that person
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:17.640
was here. So that kind of closed a chapter in
00:26:17.640 --> 00:26:21.420
my life and to make another new chapter. Now
00:26:21.420 --> 00:26:24.630
I'm not saying it's good. I'm very sorry for
00:26:24.630 --> 00:26:27.309
your loss. I'm not trying to justify anything.
00:26:27.490 --> 00:26:31.009
No, no, I'm just saying people this happens whether
00:26:31.009 --> 00:26:35.410
it's a death or Somebody just leaves like you
00:26:35.410 --> 00:26:37.329
lose contact with a friend or something like
00:26:37.329 --> 00:26:40.170
that There's all different types of losses and
00:26:40.170 --> 00:26:43.769
what happens is if I am able to embrace that
00:26:43.769 --> 00:26:46.170
and I know sometimes it's hard but because I
00:26:46.170 --> 00:26:47.930
have to go through that process to write the
00:26:47.930 --> 00:26:50.630
grieving process if I'm able to embrace that
00:26:50.630 --> 00:26:55.799
and I'm able to say Now I can do something good
00:26:55.799 --> 00:26:59.019
with my life. I can do something different. And
00:26:59.019 --> 00:27:02.180
this is just how it was meant to be. It's an
00:27:02.180 --> 00:27:05.359
unfortunate situation, but that might take me,
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:07.180
like you were talking about writing the book,
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.579
that might take me into another part of my life
00:27:10.579 --> 00:27:13.000
that's really, really, really gonna benefit me.
00:27:13.279 --> 00:27:15.640
And also, I don't believe that people really
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:20.259
die, but that's probably another podcast for
00:27:20.259 --> 00:27:22.809
another day, because... Yeah, I could always
00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:25.390
keep keep in contact with with people whether
00:27:25.390 --> 00:27:27.609
they're dead or alive, but that's just my own
00:27:27.609 --> 00:27:31.130
thing. Absolutely. I mean, part of it is that
00:27:31.130 --> 00:27:34.769
acceptance that this change has happened and
00:27:34.769 --> 00:27:38.089
that again, you don't have to like it, but you
00:27:38.089 --> 00:27:41.289
do actually have to accept it. And yeah, I'm
00:27:41.289 --> 00:27:44.190
a firm believer that that through the loss of
00:27:44.190 --> 00:27:48.809
Lucy, it set me on on the path that I'm on, where
00:27:48.809 --> 00:27:53.259
I'm a thought leader on Sibling loss, I'm out
00:27:53.259 --> 00:27:56.480
there talking about the importance of sibling
00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.359
loss and the number of people that are as I said,
00:28:00.839 --> 00:28:05.759
walking around who have lost a sibling and feel
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:09.299
very alone. I hear that all the time. I know
00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:12.140
I feel that where I'm like, I, I know the siblings
00:28:12.140 --> 00:28:14.759
survive what we're everywhere and yet we're nowhere
00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.259
because as I said, there there's not a. some
00:28:18.259 --> 00:28:21.420
way to, to, to walk around and advertise and
00:28:21.420 --> 00:28:23.240
not that you want to advertise, but sort of say,
00:28:23.420 --> 00:28:28.299
I am a sibling survivor. And as I'm walking down
00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:31.339
the street, I bump into you, Debbie, and you
00:28:31.339 --> 00:28:35.480
go, Oh, Hey, we share something, whatever it
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:38.960
is. Well, there's support groups. There are other,
00:28:39.359 --> 00:28:44.359
there are a lot of things that we can do to get
00:28:44.359 --> 00:28:47.769
an acceptance and an understanding. of what's
00:28:47.769 --> 00:28:50.470
going on and allow us to help. But that's again,
00:28:50.509 --> 00:28:52.910
that's another podcast. But these are some things.
00:28:53.130 --> 00:28:57.049
So so we have we have to close. So if you want
00:28:57.049 --> 00:29:00.490
to say for another 30 seconds or so, if you want
00:29:00.490 --> 00:29:03.309
to say something, you can. You're not, you know,
00:29:03.490 --> 00:29:05.529
passion, friends says you need not walk alone.
00:29:05.789 --> 00:29:08.029
There is there is support out there. If you've
00:29:08.029 --> 00:29:11.490
lost a sibling, compassionate friends dot org.
00:29:11.869 --> 00:29:14.089
Really, I know it's not supposed to advertise,
00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:18.529
but it's such an important resource. for parents
00:29:18.529 --> 00:29:22.069
and, but especially siblings, the, the people
00:29:22.069 --> 00:29:25.670
who, who discover us are like, Oh my gosh, saved
00:29:25.670 --> 00:29:29.750
my life. And that's part of my mission is just
00:29:29.750 --> 00:29:33.769
to, I really want to be able to help other sibling
00:29:33.769 --> 00:29:37.759
survivors. It's part of Lucy's legacy. Yeah,
00:29:37.819 --> 00:29:41.880
so that's what I just really wanted to say as
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.619
two sentences in closing is that it that this
00:29:45.619 --> 00:29:49.980
in itself is a very big process and the fastest
00:29:49.980 --> 00:29:54.079
and the most productive way that I can to accept
00:29:54.079 --> 00:29:57.900
the loss and understand that this is taking me
00:29:57.900 --> 00:30:01.319
to a very, very, very good place. I'm constantly
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.079
staying in the positive and I'm constantly moving
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:07.170
forward. because I can easily sit in the negative
00:30:07.170 --> 00:30:10.029
for me for the rest of my life. So this is absolutely.
00:30:10.349 --> 00:30:13.349
Yeah. So as we close this conversation is a reminder
00:30:13.349 --> 00:30:16.549
that progress really comes from one big decision,
00:30:16.569 --> 00:30:19.650
but from the internal choices we repeat. If something
00:30:19.650 --> 00:30:22.269
from today's discussion connected with you, take
00:30:22.269 --> 00:30:24.809
a moment to notice how those internal choices
00:30:24.809 --> 00:30:27.269
show up in your own life. This has been the internal
00:30:27.269 --> 00:30:29.230
shift show. Thank you for listening. And thank
00:30:29.230 --> 00:30:30.890
you, Xander, for being on the show. I really
00:30:30.890 --> 00:30:32.150
appreciate it. Thank you.