Raising Daughters: Preparing Ourselves to Prepare Our Girls

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[SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to the intentional parents podcast, brought to you by Intentional.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Intentional is all about spiritual formation in the family.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy this week's conversation.
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[SPEAKER_02]: welcome back to the intentional parents podcast raising daughters.
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[SPEAKER_02]: What is it that we actually want our girls to know about being a woman?
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[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a daughter whether you are a dad or a mom and you are raising a daughter this episode is for you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mom is here today with me between the two of us we have raised or are raising how many daughters
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[SPEAKER_01]: Five, two, you have three, five.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how many female grandchildren?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, let's see one, two, three, four, five, teenage grandchildren, is that right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Marlowe Sloan, Birdie, Scarlett, and Sunday.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Five granddaughters.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hopefully with our cumulative on the ground experience.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Of a few things to say about raising daughters and we're going to get into a lot today just like what are some things that are really important in our current time and just in general, but especially right now.
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[SPEAKER_02]: that we teach our daughters, intentionally and for moms listening it also means what are the things that God needs to form in us so that we can pass these things onto our daughters and intentionally teach them before we get into that though.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Mom, you are on sub-stack.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I am so proud of you, because you have had to learn...
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[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, sub-stacks, I don't even understand fully how it works.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I was in it the other day reading yours, which was so good.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And seeing, it's like another form of social media kind of... Kind of, although the people on sub-stack are kind of object to that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: because it is different in that you're not presenting the always the best side of you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so many topics on subject.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You have to go into a long list of what you're interested in.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, in my main topics, which is spirituality, faith,
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[SPEAKER_01]: and parenting, motherhood, it's very friendly, it's not comparison, it's not tell you what to do, it's more, it feels more like a conversation, it really feels more like a conversation, that would be right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And if also very much we promote each
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[SPEAKER_01]: and kind of got into the group of like-minded bloggers and they're all championing each other's work and encouraging each other.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of new writers who are developing their voice there, I would anybody who ever wants to be a writer, I would say.
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[SPEAKER_01]: First thing you should do is get on substrate and start developing your voice because it's about the friendlyest place you could ever
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[SPEAKER_02]: Why are you on it, again, what are you, what's your mission, what are you hoping to do?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm on it, partly for myself, because it's a kind, I love to write, I write every day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I can't not write.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted a place that I could write totally in my own voice, just as Diane, this is who I am.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is what's important to me, this is what I'm learning, this is what I'm noticing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm wishing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, to me, it's a place, I mean, you have that right, like a mission statement type of
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm writing a lot about motherhood because so much of my life has been about motherhood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And still it is about motherhood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have my little is grand girl with me this week and my daughter Rebecca and her daughter is seven weeks old.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So cute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she's so cute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm her caretaker this week, like, so I was remembering, oh my gosh, how did I do this?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was so good for me, trying to get ready this morning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And because my daughter Rebecca has the own business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so she's doing a major task for the business.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a working week for her.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and I'm the nanny and loving every minute of it and it's lost and it's all for giving me like how did I do that, how did I have four kids make dinner every night do all the laundry, do all the cleaning on a very small associate pastor's budget
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[SPEAKER_01]: Even, and then even choke my church on Sunday, I don't know, but it also explains a lot of the mistakes I made because I was perpetually overwhelmed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, I think I think young motherhood though is a state of perpetually being hadn't overwhelmed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe all of motherhood.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Not just young motherhood.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I told, I held her for the first time and I just said, thank you for having another baby, so I don't have to, I just get to hold yours and enjoy your
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[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and she is so sweet, and she's such a wonderful mother.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But with Substack, I would say my primary people that I have in mind when I'm writing is more than anything else is moms in that stage of life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Whether you're raising a newborn or a teenager and looking back on my life, things I wish I would have done differently, things I've learned since then, and then some of it,
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[SPEAKER_01]: a poem by a writer who has passed away as with the Lord and her name was Elizabeth Rooney.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And in I got to actually know her daughter a little bit, we're talking, when I went to ask permission, you know, you don't just post things without permission.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But the poet poem is about September.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and storing September is called.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really just a moment.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All of us know we need to slow down.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And this poem, I read all the month of September, and it always slows me down just to take a breath and not rush on to the next thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So the name of my sub-stack is, and calling it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: a quiet place, and the theme is cultivating quiet in our life, in our very noisy lives, not outside of our noisy lives, but in the midst, and quiet really has to do with peace and shalom and that inner
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[SPEAKER_01]: connectedness with the Lord Jesus that we know gives us a gentleness even while we're being strong.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really more for me than anything else because I just feel like I have things I want to say and I want to say it completely in my voice and share the things that are important to me.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Are you an excellent writer, and you are an excellent writer?
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[SPEAKER_02]: No.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You truly are, but you're also a woman who has been deeply formed by motherhood, and has actually spent decades doing the deep work and you're still doing the deep work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you have such a rich, deep, intimate, quiet place, relationship with God.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Um, that you're not just, this isn't just like a side-project hobby.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like you are a genuine, you're a really good writer who is writing stuff you've lived and, um, and you're also writing a book.
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[SPEAKER_02]: They tuned.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And they tuned.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll share bits and pieces if that.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the way, too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, about how we actually set a table for our families, that they, that leads them home to God, and that they want to come home to in real time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, someday we all know the general of generational divides and herds right now and
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll write quite a bit about that in there too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm really proud of you for doing it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's another beautiful resource that people can access.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We need to share about it on social media too.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It gives people the link to it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I can tell you it's first not to remember.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but we're going to make sure it's why I didn't want the pressure.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to be able to write quietly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm kind of past that hump, and I'm just, I'm writing quietly, no matter how many people go on.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I love that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Just quietly, well, thousands of people listen to what we just told them about the tension couple.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But today, I'm excited to have this conversation with you because really we want to talk about like what do the scriptures say a woman is and how do we help our daughters grow into that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And as we talk about it,
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[SPEAKER_02]: We want to do a lot of like what we wish we'd done what we're now learning and I think that the had this realization at a little event we just did and I was talking to somebody.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And kind of the thing we hear a lot when we're with people and at our retreats and just actually getting to hear people's experience of what God is doing through this digital medium, you know.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so much of what we hear is like generational work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like my parents, I came from this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: My parents weren't Christians or my parents, you know, there was a lot that happened.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to make a change for my family, this deep generational work, and a lot of people will say, like Seeing your family dynamic, like that's what I want.
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[SPEAKER_02]: That's what gives me hope and I and I had this realization that like
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[SPEAKER_02]: Even if you come from the best of families, which I have the honor and privilege, great privilege to come from a really great family.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And the longer I'm alive and the longer we do this type of work, the more I see that that is the rarity, not the norm, which is heartbreaking.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And it's beautiful to see so many people desperate, dependent on God for like I want to just God to start a new story with
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[SPEAKER_02]: But as I was talking to this guy in his 30s at this event, and I had this moment of realizing, like, even in the best of families, we are still trying to do generational work, breaking generational, strongholds and sins.
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[SPEAKER_02]: In our family, there are clearly identified generational sins passed down from, clearly see who where it was passed down from.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we're working on them and talking about them openly and together.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Not pointing fingers so much as saying, whoa, this is a thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it goes back and it's embedded in our emotional DNA and we have to stop this.
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[SPEAKER_02]: and that work has to be done in every family and there are some where it's like there's one couple who's deciding to do that work yeah and that's such honorable work there's somewhere maybe it's you and you're sibling are also trying to do that work and then there's I love where we're at right now as a family of like we can have this conversation you can share what you wish you'd done differently
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[SPEAKER_01]: I can share what you wish.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I've been differently.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But the things that are maybe being course corrected a little bit.
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[SPEAKER_02]: in my family.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You are also helping with instead of being threatened by, you're like, oh yeah, we got to teach, I didn't understand that when I was raising you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And so I got to help help you teach my granddaughters.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you've coached me and we'll get into this when we get over to the topic.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll make sure that I mentioned the things you've coached me in too so that my generation, if you're listening to this, you can hear some stuff that I've learned
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[SPEAKER_01]: my children, and I've learned a lot from my children, and still I'm learning a lot.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it's important to note like
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[SPEAKER_02]: If your mom was listening, and I don't know if you can relate to this mom, like when I first found out that I was having a girl, so I had a boy first, and then I was pregnant with Scarlett.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Found that I was having a girl.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It hit so different than when I found out I was having a boy.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I was both excited and also had this almost like a pit in my stomach of like the weightiness.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: of wanting to raise a healthy daughter, like a emotionally healthy, relationally healthy woman.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And just like marriage is a mirror, kids are a mirror in a way, but I also think when it's the same gender situation, when it's a mom raising a daughter, a dad raising a son, it almost becomes more of this like mirror of like, oh, I have some work I need to do on my own self,
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: All women have a little bit of a catty part in them, a critical part, a nagging part and I think our daughters have a way of like putting all those flaws on display at times.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But it's really important to note that
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[SPEAKER_02]: like as through through God's help not from a place of control as we are like helping form our daughters.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We are also still being formed.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that we figure all these things out and then we just one, two, three, pass these on to our daughters.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like that idea of like follow me as I follow Christ.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, come on, let's do this together.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I may be a little bit
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[SPEAKER_01]: God still working these things out in me and a lot of it will come from I've learned these things the heart way Yeah, and I'm trying to spare you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah towards our daughters and and they have to take it and Desibert to do best on with these things too, but What a privilege it is to teach a child who's going on the way to becoming a woman and understanding that and also
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[SPEAKER_01]: Sadly, the church has often with the best of motives made a very narrow box that women are supposed to fit into.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that isn't really a biblical idea.
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[SPEAKER_01]: that there is one right way to do womanhood or express ourselves in womanhood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's really a Ben A. Flaw, in at least the church that era that I got saved in, or perhaps it wasn't even a flaw of the message given, but it's the message I
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[SPEAKER_01]: heard and incorporated into my life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's a right way to be a woman.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to say off right from the beginning here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we're talking about.
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[SPEAKER_02]: No.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about.
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[SPEAKER_01]: enabling our our children less here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe what we're talking about is coming alongside a conversation with our daughters as we sort of navigate them into womanhood and pointing out things along the way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Not trying to fit them into our ideal of womenhood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's really important from the very beginning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And something I wish I'd been aware of when I had my little girls.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't remember ever feeling intimidated by having girls.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I should have been because I had a very complicated relationship with my mother, which right there is a mark against me or something this could use to alert me to, oh, I think there might have been a better way.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think I should have been, but I was not at the spiritually transformed place yet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was 25 when I had you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you were... That was the third one.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And you're the third one.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was 20.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think I would have been 20.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was 26 when I had you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was 23 when I had Rebecca.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I was not 21 when you had John Mark.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, no.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell the truth right here because he loves to tell the truth and I hate for him to tell the truth.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was 10 days shy of my 21st birthday when he was born.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I was 10 days shy of my 24th birthday when Duke was born.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I looked mature because I was responsible and all that stuff.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I was emotionally just not well-formed or well aware.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I think the reason I wasn't afraid is because I didn't really understand when the response bill would do us.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So, which that's hopeful in and of itself though of like that's where you started.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And you have a great relationship with your daughters.
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[SPEAKER_02]: You don't, you did not repeat the cycle that your mom thank God.
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[SPEAKER_01]: did.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But at 25, I was not aware of my own woundedness, and that's number one.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to raise daughters to navigate this world well.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You need to be aware of your own woundedness.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a shame thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's a self-awareness thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And nor did I understand that, that time theologically, that God actually wants to speak to us individually.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I came later, and it came slowly, but the church circles that we moved in at that time,
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[SPEAKER_01]: had what I would call a distrust of the idea of individuals hearing from the spirit, which is I understand why there was a resurgence of some unfortunate doctrine going on and you know what do we do?
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[SPEAKER_01]: We overcorrect.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that is essential.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We have to be listening to
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's the one, God is the one who formed them in our womb and who they would be and how they're wired and maybe what glitches they might have in their system.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't know any of that, but so listening to the spirit for your daughter, even in this podcast, listen for the spirit for your daughter, not for we're talking about our experience,
19:50.234 --> 19:53.796
[SPEAKER_01]: your experience with them and how that showed up in my parenting.
19:53.937 --> 20:05.304
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately was I trusted, I was new Christian, I trusted any sort of Christian Bible-focused experts far too much.
20:06.225 --> 20:10.167
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like they wrote the law book from me because I didn't know what I was doing.
20:10.808 --> 20:15.951
[SPEAKER_01]: So that that led me to some trends and extremes that I loved.
20:16.372 --> 20:18.073
[SPEAKER_01]: I just loved it because it's like give me a
20:19.994 --> 20:20.174
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:20.935 --> 20:29.220
[SPEAKER_01]: And because I wasn't listening to the Spirit and didn't know how, I missed out on what I now believe the Spirit wants every Jesus following the Spirit.
20:29.840 --> 20:34.203
[SPEAKER_01]: To have, to give them is wisdom and discernment for each of our children.
20:34.524 --> 20:35.284
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
20:35.904 --> 20:38.846
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's laying the foundation.
20:38.926 --> 20:40.968
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that came later by the time.
20:40.988 --> 20:46.351
[SPEAKER_01]: I was beginning to lean into that in my crisis that I wrote about and he speaks
20:48.614 --> 20:51.778
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when I began to learn to listen to the spirit.
20:51.818 --> 20:57.024
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was probably when you were elementary school, all of you weren't elementary school, I think.
20:57.044 --> 20:57.244
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
20:57.425 --> 20:58.125
[SPEAKER_01]: Or almost there.
20:58.506 --> 21:05.875
[SPEAKER_01]: Where I was beginning, but I didn't have a lot of role models or a lot of now there are some just excellent.
21:06.275 --> 21:06.755
[SPEAKER_01]: writers.
21:07.376 --> 21:09.077
[SPEAKER_01]: Dallas Willard is the best.
21:09.357 --> 21:14.639
[SPEAKER_01]: His book on, um, I don't think I'm gonna forget the name of it, but we'll put it in the show notes.
21:14.679 --> 21:14.859
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
21:15.200 --> 21:17.961
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm listening to God is it's the best.
21:18.821 --> 21:22.884
[SPEAKER_01]: Most balance theologically sound and a great read.
21:23.864 --> 21:26.765
[SPEAKER_01]: All of Dallas Willard's books, which can be hard to make.
21:26.806 --> 21:27.426
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the one.
21:27.486 --> 21:28.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's one.
21:28.406 --> 21:29.627
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll love it.
21:29.867 --> 21:31.308
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like he's talking it to you.
21:31.908 --> 21:34.469
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it does he have one called experiencing God or no?
21:34.650 --> 21:38.151
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's also a great book by John Eldridge.
21:38.171 --> 21:38.492
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:39.152 --> 21:39.952
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's okay.
21:40.233 --> 21:42.574
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't, I thought there was a balance while he'd run with the animal or a title.
21:42.614 --> 21:43.394
[SPEAKER_01]: He quotes him a lot.
21:43.574 --> 21:43.814
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
21:45.602 --> 22:00.706
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you for being honest about that, and I want to just get into, um, we're going to talk about five things, to over, over the life of raising your daughter, five things to be teaching them.
22:00.946 --> 22:04.287
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not an exhaustive list, there are many more things.
22:05.948 --> 22:08.649
[SPEAKER_02]: But these are just some really foundational things.
22:08.809 --> 22:10.971
[SPEAKER_02]: Each of them could be their own episode.
22:11.471 --> 22:14.433
[SPEAKER_02]: One of them actually, we kind of landed on.
22:15.013 --> 22:17.454
[SPEAKER_02]: There's so much that needs to be said, we will touch on it.
22:17.735 --> 22:20.796
[SPEAKER_02]: Last one we will touch on and then record a whole episode.
22:20.896 --> 22:21.157
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
22:21.677 --> 22:23.298
[SPEAKER_02]: On.
22:23.798 --> 22:31.543
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, as we go through these, these are things that you probably need to be learning yourself, that I'm still learning myself.
22:32.303 --> 22:40.085
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't, we don't ever just arrive in life and have all I've learned that and I never have to learn it again.
22:40.245 --> 22:52.008
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think there are certain things that get to a more settled place, deep inside of you, but especially in parenting, especially the age we are that we are parenting.
22:52.988 --> 22:57.189
[SPEAKER_02]: We are learning right alongside her kids and that's not a flaw in God's design.
22:58.309 --> 23:01.991
[SPEAKER_01]: But as you mentioned, I'm still learning the height alongside you too.
23:02.131 --> 23:13.635
[SPEAKER_01]: I did think that there would you get to a certain point and then you would just, you know, cruise on all this wisdom and God at giving you and that, I'm finding that the opposite to be true.
23:14.175 --> 23:25.540
[SPEAKER_01]: The closer I grow to God himself, the more I'm in the word and the more I'm doing life with the real family, the more I say, oh gosh.
23:26.570 --> 23:28.872
[SPEAKER_01]: so much work still to be done in my life.
23:29.113 --> 23:31.915
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't make me dread, feel dreadful.
23:32.096 --> 23:35.239
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes me feel like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
23:35.299 --> 23:35.799
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:35.859 --> 23:36.540
[SPEAKER_02]: Wonderful.
23:36.820 --> 23:41.084
[SPEAKER_01]: Right until we step into his presence, he wants to be teaching us and forming us.
23:41.945 --> 23:43.346
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a whole new thing.
23:43.366 --> 23:44.446
[SPEAKER_01]: We could be talking about that.
23:44.506 --> 23:44.946
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
23:45.426 --> 23:47.387
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's get into these five things.
23:47.507 --> 23:51.728
[SPEAKER_02]: The first one is that you have to teacher about her design.
23:53.129 --> 24:00.772
[SPEAKER_02]: And mom, this has been something you've studied for a long time and has you've made come alive for so many of us.
24:00.852 --> 24:01.512
[SPEAKER_02]: You've talked about it.
24:01.612 --> 24:02.392
[SPEAKER_02]: The mother had retreats.
24:02.652 --> 24:04.253
[SPEAKER_02]: I know we've talked about it on the podcast.
24:06.274 --> 24:22.425
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's so foundational and has reshaped for me, as I am raising daughters, what it is I want to teach them about how God made them, and it's causing in a good way,
24:25.286 --> 24:50.571
[SPEAKER_02]: even things I say, or like, this is just a funny example, Sloan was doing something and she's our most like full personality like she's the best and she's her own she's her own deal and she was doing something and I said, oh Sloan, no, we don't do
24:55.483 --> 25:14.053
[SPEAKER_02]: the flash to like how much I heard growing up that's not lady like you need like that's not lady like ladies don't do that yeah and we'll still much about manners and which I don't think any of that was bad no but it had me just question like that's what defines a woman
25:14.493 --> 25:21.957
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that you only act a certain way or and I realize like, I don't actually ever say that to her.
25:22.017 --> 25:24.538
[SPEAKER_02]: Like as it came out of my mouth, it felt like this foreign thing.
25:24.558 --> 25:25.679
[SPEAKER_01]: I was saying yes.
25:25.999 --> 25:31.162
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I saw it like in, you know, in the distance of like, oh, I heard that all the time growing up.
25:32.142 --> 25:36.824
[SPEAKER_02]: And that worked for me because I actually was more ladylike naturally.
25:36.844 --> 25:37.325
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
25:37.625 --> 25:42.667
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Sloan is not really, but is kind of... She doesn't fit them all that way.
25:42.807 --> 25:43.088
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
25:44.108 --> 25:58.154
[SPEAKER_02]: But then at the very same time, we had people over for dinner last night, and I was picking her up from your house, that a doctor's appointment, and she was like, I don't know if you noticed when I was trying to talk to you out the car when she was just like, Interrupted and he couldn't believe you were so late.
25:58.555 --> 26:01.876
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were driving away, and I was like, it's long.
26:01.896 --> 26:03.057
[SPEAKER_02]: Why are you so up?
26:03.257 --> 26:05.278
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what, she's kept saying I need to get ready.
26:05.498 --> 26:06.178
[SPEAKER_02]: She's eight years old.
26:06.618 --> 26:10.140
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what do you need to get ready, like your outfits cute, like you,
26:10.940 --> 26:35.666
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you hoping to get ready and she goes, well, I was going to put my sparkly eyeshadow on and my lip gloss and brush my hair and I have to do it before they come It was like this first moment of her being like wanting to not just present in a way, but just like wanting to, you know, feel good about herself in a Anyway, it was funny because I found myself just like
26:36.807 --> 26:42.310
[SPEAKER_02]: Especially with her, I don't want to overdo you have to be a lady, you know, exactly.
26:42.450 --> 26:57.978
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, anyway, that to say this has been so shaping and is so important and I just want to let you just teach for a minute about what the Bible actually says because we have to untiege so much of what has been said about that word helper.
26:58.258 --> 26:58.518
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
26:58.818 --> 26:59.739
[SPEAKER_02]: So mom.
27:00.399 --> 27:00.899
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
27:00.939 --> 27:05.082
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, this is really, this has been life-changing for me.
27:06.322 --> 27:12.287
[SPEAKER_01]: Not that I would have done what, yeah, I would have done my life differently, had I grown up knowing this, most definitely.
27:14.629 --> 27:23.056
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is something I stumbled upon when I did the crazy thing of going back to school and going to seminary at 61.
27:23.156 --> 27:26.639
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a project oriented,
27:28.620 --> 27:43.572
[SPEAKER_01]: program, master's program, and I decided I was going to study, first off I thought I was going to study this divide and women, egalitarian, called for mentoring, if you know anything about that.
27:43.872 --> 27:44.953
[SPEAKER_01]: And I abandoned that.
27:46.074 --> 27:49.356
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty quickly, and I realize I think this is the wrong question.
27:50.077 --> 27:53.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is, so the question became for me, who is a woman really?
27:54.199 --> 27:54.399
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:54.459 --> 28:01.143
[SPEAKER_01]: Where we're defined, of course, you have to always go back to Genesis 1 and 2 and 3 is part of it too.
28:02.164 --> 28:03.565
[SPEAKER_01]: The design of a woman.
28:04.485 --> 28:14.090
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, we grow up hearing that we are a helpmate or a help record responding to our husbands.
28:15.231 --> 28:28.498
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem with that is when it was first when the word is our, which is the Hebrew word, was first translated by some of the earliest translators.
28:29.318 --> 28:32.141
[SPEAKER_01]: helper was a much stronger word than it is now.
28:32.841 --> 28:44.332
[SPEAKER_01]: But in modern day English that has changed quickly, and it's very hard for translators to go back and change some of our most cherished verses, even with new information.
28:44.852 --> 28:48.574
[SPEAKER_01]: But in modern English, a helper is an assistant.
28:48.594 --> 28:50.074
[SPEAKER_01]: Helper picks up after you.
28:50.094 --> 28:54.236
[SPEAKER_01]: A helper makes your life easier.
28:55.397 --> 29:08.422
[SPEAKER_01]: But the reality is, this is the word, the first word of identity given to a woman that she would be a helper, suitable, or corresponding to Adam.
29:10.128 --> 29:24.599
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's used twice in there, and it's used for women, but every place else in Scripture besides a few people naming their sons or daughters with this in it, everywhere else in Scripture is spoken of God.
29:25.079 --> 29:28.201
[SPEAKER_01]: God is our help, ever present help in trouble.
29:28.902 --> 29:32.965
[SPEAKER_01]: He is this life-giving life-saving help.
29:37.268 --> 29:38.809
[SPEAKER_01]: consider God to be our assistant.
29:39.669 --> 29:45.272
[SPEAKER_01]: He is this powerful, powerful help and we are made in that image of God.
29:46.432 --> 29:53.756
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way it was used in Old Testament Hebrew was as like two soldiers fighting together.
29:54.896 --> 30:11.146
[SPEAKER_01]: And one soldier, the lead soldier, whatever you want to call them, the Bible doesn't say, would stand two of them would stand back to back, and the easer had the back of the other soldier.
30:12.006 --> 30:21.392
[SPEAKER_01]: So they could, they could fend off great groups of warriors because they covered each other's completely.
30:23.553 --> 30:30.237
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the easer, the idea of easer was never thought of as a system, it was this power of force.
30:30.317 --> 30:30.577
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
30:31.057 --> 30:40.142
[SPEAKER_01]: You would always listen to your, or your life depended on listening to your easer, or entrusting your easer.
30:40.342 --> 30:42.764
[SPEAKER_01]: And you knew that your easer had things.
30:43.404 --> 30:46.767
[SPEAKER_01]: that you don't have and keep a ability that you don't have.
30:46.787 --> 30:49.569
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a military word for a rescuer.
30:50.610 --> 31:07.044
[SPEAKER_01]: As I said, somebody who has your back, a protector, one Hebrew commentator called it a word that would describe a skilled surgeon, a specialist, and every woman is created in the image of God
31:07.925 --> 31:14.847
[SPEAKER_01]: He's an easier and we particularly carry, not that men don't, but we are identified as this.
31:15.088 --> 31:22.250
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like right in the very beginning, stamped on every single woman, married or unmarried.
31:22.610 --> 31:26.792
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went back to my theology professor to make sure, she eat.
31:28.693 --> 31:32.374
[SPEAKER_01]: This woman was a helper before Adam.
31:32.434 --> 31:34.534
[SPEAKER_01]: She was created to be a woman.
31:34.955 --> 31:36.615
[SPEAKER_01]: This wasn't a role she took on.
31:37.135 --> 31:40.216
[SPEAKER_01]: This was who she was at a very core of her being.
31:40.636 --> 31:41.416
[SPEAKER_02]: On purpose.
31:41.916 --> 31:42.416
[SPEAKER_01]: On purpose.
31:42.436 --> 31:44.037
[SPEAKER_02]: Because God made it that way.
31:44.117 --> 31:44.377
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
31:45.197 --> 31:46.577
[SPEAKER_01]: She can't not be that person.
31:46.637 --> 31:50.198
[SPEAKER_02]: Not because Christian culture made it that way.
31:50.398 --> 31:54.019
[SPEAKER_02]: Not because, yeah, because God made it that way.
31:54.039 --> 31:56.740
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is some old theology that talked about.
31:57.720 --> 32:09.266
[SPEAKER_01]: man was that he had the leader, which I do believe in headship, because of a flaw in women, because women were somehow flawed and unable, because they were deceived first.
32:09.366 --> 32:13.268
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because they would see for the even that is debatable, because yeah.
32:13.748 --> 32:32.617
[SPEAKER_01]: Theologians debate whether she ever actually knew about the forbidden tree because it was actually only told the Adam, at least in the scriptures from what we can see, Adam was given that commandment, whether he ever communicated that to Eve or she would have overheard it, we don't know.
32:33.290 --> 32:33.811
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
32:33.891 --> 32:35.072
[SPEAKER_02]: So, never heard that.
32:35.432 --> 32:37.934
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's pretty important point in there.
32:37.994 --> 32:38.494
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
32:38.574 --> 32:41.877
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that blows the women or more easily to see.
32:41.897 --> 32:41.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:42.177 --> 32:43.919
[SPEAKER_01]: I would argue the opposite, I think.
32:44.839 --> 32:53.707
[SPEAKER_01]: I think women often hit her more intuitive and able to see through the gut that others, you know, sometimes have.
32:53.727 --> 32:55.008
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:55.448 --> 33:01.113
[SPEAKER_01]: In marriage, that means, okay, as far as I imagine it, this is me, my commentary.
33:02.582 --> 33:10.303
[SPEAKER_01]: As now, you're assigned specifically to be this sort of warrior protector help to this particular man.
33:10.903 --> 33:14.524
[SPEAKER_01]: So I am Phil's, he's our, I have it's back.
33:16.224 --> 33:20.725
[SPEAKER_01]: He listens to me, I have the gift of a husband who really sees and values.
33:21.645 --> 33:31.587
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'd be very hesitant to ignore my advice or my instinct and is always quick to ask me.
33:32.067 --> 33:37.290
[SPEAKER_01]: That sadly is a rare kind of thing in the man.
33:37.410 --> 33:46.816
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of you women, you don't feel heard in your marriage, and I agree for you, but I even agree more for your husband.
33:47.697 --> 33:56.502
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that we can gradually use a voice, which we'll talk about later, that can help our husbands see the need of listening.
33:56.882 --> 33:59.885
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but what about on unmarried women?
33:59.905 --> 34:12.538
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I didn't prepare you or her back before it all was the very high possibility even probability that you might not ever get married and a married much later or married later
34:14.231 --> 34:19.978
[SPEAKER_01]: But an unmarried woman is, as far as her identity, still an easier.
34:20.980 --> 34:30.652
[SPEAKER_01]: So the way I view that is we, and I'll honestly the early church saw that because Paul talked about that he argued for single of this.
34:32.074 --> 34:40.964
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and his argument was, especially for women, was that she can have undivided devotion to the Lord.
34:41.905 --> 34:46.871
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a merit and unmarried woman is more what I would call an easer at large.
34:47.611 --> 34:57.976
[SPEAKER_01]: She is a sign different places in culture where her easilyness is absolutely needed, which means that her voice is needed.
34:58.636 --> 35:12.022
[SPEAKER_01]: So how that would have changed my parenting a few is I would have worked harder to help you, like Sloan, develop her voice and give respect and heed to what?
35:13.222 --> 35:19.125
[SPEAKER_01]: She had to say that it's really important that we ask our users, what do you think?
35:19.586 --> 35:19.806
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:20.046 --> 35:21.867
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I thinking right about this?
35:21.967 --> 35:22.748
[SPEAKER_01]: What does your question mean?
35:22.768 --> 35:24.529
[SPEAKER_02]: Which means we also need to teach our sons.
35:25.389 --> 35:27.290
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I mean, we're created.
35:27.350 --> 35:29.051
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we could, again, we could do a whole episode.
35:29.251 --> 35:29.932
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
35:30.872 --> 35:34.214
[SPEAKER_01]: Teach your sons to marry a woman who's voice you contrasted.
35:34.274 --> 35:34.474
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
35:34.875 --> 35:37.336
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she is your user and then you listen to her.
35:37.376 --> 35:37.576
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
35:37.696 --> 35:38.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Like your life depends on it.
35:39.368 --> 35:43.622
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's also important to teach, and we've been thinking about this lately of
35:44.883 --> 36:11.475
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we all have this spirit filled self, the redeemed version of ourselves who were really created to be, things working in God's perfect order and design, which is what you're describing, of what a woman is created to be, which can be so beautiful, so helpful, working in this synchronous way with your spouse and being that to your family and those in your close community, it's beautiful.
36:12.395 --> 36:19.277
[SPEAKER_02]: then you see the flesh working from the flesh side of it, the sinful side, whatever you want to call it.
36:19.338 --> 36:37.324
[SPEAKER_02]: I still feel like our generation now doesn't really even talk about, like I remember hearing all the time being in the flesh that Paul talks about in this, you sinful nature, all that like, I feel like my generation doesn't have word for that anymore or like the next generation.
36:40.685 --> 36:49.392
[SPEAKER_01]: But, operate, so let's say, operating for, I like better in spiritual information than it was the true self and the false self.
36:49.492 --> 36:49.792
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay.
36:50.213 --> 36:50.413
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
36:51.929 --> 36:57.374
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe operating in the fall self, you see women that and we all fall into this.
36:57.594 --> 37:08.302
[SPEAKER_02]: I fall into this on a daily basis, controlling critical overworking and feeling resentful overgiving overlife.
37:09.023 --> 37:11.905
[SPEAKER_02]: All these parts that are just a...
37:13.183 --> 37:28.627
[SPEAKER_02]: like I'm struggling for words, but like that easerness of we actually are trying to help when it just goes south, when it's not we're not operating from the spirit and then women get
37:29.927 --> 37:46.313
[SPEAKER_02]: these horrible labels as like and then has been don't listen well to serve totally and has been then don't listen to their wives because they're just nagging they're just become a nagging wife but really it's from a place of like yes trying to help trying to make it is everything better
37:47.473 --> 37:59.319
[SPEAKER_01]: But you guys in this false self by doing it for not for the best of others necessarily or without discernment without discernment.
37:59.339 --> 37:59.879
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the word.
37:59.919 --> 38:05.242
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like this one thing teaching my daughters right now, like I'm thinking especially scarlet.
38:06.022 --> 38:28.781
[SPEAKER_02]: who has amazing insight into things and really wants to help and wants to make the world better and wants to but teaching her how to use that with discernment if you haven't been invited to speak into that situation like even when she started serving her youth group that she's going to
38:34.545 --> 38:48.979
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's Scarlet who is wildly gifted leads our whole church in worship on a regular basis, lead to the motherhood retreats like has all this experience and then she's coming into this like this band that is
38:49.940 --> 39:06.671
[SPEAKER_02]: truly terrible like they're trying they're trying really hard it's like not organized well they've got some people helping who are a little bit older but they don't really know what they're doing yeah so she's coming on from worship practice and she's like the guy who's trying to like help with the vocals
39:07.511 --> 39:12.414
[SPEAKER_02]: like the way he's coaching people to do it is like he doesn't know what he's doing.
39:12.494 --> 39:19.318
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it it should not be we all sing at the same time for every song and nobody sings harmony and no you know.
39:19.818 --> 39:32.026
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's asking me like I don't really know I don't want to be bossy but like how do I help make this not such a disaster and like I do actually know how to do it.
39:32.506 --> 39:33.527
[SPEAKER_01]: she could solve the problem.
39:33.567 --> 39:34.087
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
39:34.127 --> 39:34.407
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
39:34.908 --> 39:37.669
[SPEAKER_02]: And alienate everybody on the way.
39:37.689 --> 39:38.250
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
39:38.890 --> 39:42.953
[SPEAKER_02]: And and just to watch him so proud of her because she's gone in so humble.
39:43.053 --> 39:43.973
[SPEAKER_02]: She goes every week.
39:44.073 --> 39:45.514
[SPEAKER_02]: She's not like I'm too good for this.
39:45.574 --> 39:47.836
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, no, we're all in this together.
39:47.856 --> 39:49.257
[SPEAKER_02]: She's encouraging the other singers.
39:50.057 --> 39:55.159
[SPEAKER_02]: And we had Dev a lot of talks about, like, have you been invited to speak into?
39:55.179 --> 39:55.279
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
39:55.699 --> 39:59.180
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I'm kind of making suggestions, but it's not nothing's hitting.
39:59.760 --> 40:02.821
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, you know, anyway, just those moments.
40:03.061 --> 40:04.542
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you totally relate to that?
40:04.642 --> 40:07.723
[SPEAKER_01]: Have we always been all been in that situation?
40:07.843 --> 40:08.163
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
40:08.203 --> 40:14.265
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's personal, like with our husband or a mother in law with her.
40:15.065 --> 40:31.496
[SPEAKER_01]: a daughter-in-law who knows she could help, but then completely uses up all the relational, you know, grace, and is never able to be speak again because she has stepped in where she wasn't invited.
40:31.576 --> 40:31.816
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
40:32.016 --> 40:35.299
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, you think about even that picture of EASER fighting back to back.
40:36.480 --> 40:44.102
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, somebody's not your exer just comes in and tries to like tell you how you should be doing the battle right in the middle of you doing the battle like it never worked.
40:44.742 --> 40:53.944
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so teaching our girls like the importance of their like powerful role, but that idea of strength under control.
40:54.084 --> 40:54.365
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
40:54.465 --> 41:02.767
[SPEAKER_02]: And with discernment, the power of the Holy Spirit in the places that God has asked you specifically to be in these are.
41:02.947 --> 41:03.167
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
41:04.247 --> 41:05.087
[SPEAKER_01]: So important.
41:05.147 --> 41:06.228
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we'll listen for it.
41:06.268 --> 41:08.229
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll never stop learning about that.
41:08.669 --> 41:16.192
[SPEAKER_01]: And we generally speaking, I would say, when we get worse as they get older in the area, because we've learned that.
41:16.252 --> 41:17.512
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we know more.
41:17.852 --> 41:22.114
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes what we've learned doesn't actually translate well to the next generation.
41:22.894 --> 41:27.436
[SPEAKER_01]: And so discernment, this is where again, let's go back to it listening to the spirit.
41:27.476 --> 41:27.716
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:28.156 --> 41:30.717
[SPEAKER_01]: He will gladly warn you.
41:31.057 --> 41:31.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
41:31.897 --> 41:32.578
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you ask
41:33.638 --> 41:43.103
[SPEAKER_01]: and you leave space for him too, he wants to help you be, he's the expert, he wants to help you be really good at this.
41:44.143 --> 42:00.812
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the other identity word, the only other identity word that at this point I can find anywhere I'm scripture that I've been able to even look into is the second word given right after the fall, and I'm not sure why that interests me so much, but there's a connection
42:03.213 --> 42:09.397
[SPEAKER_01]: And Adam and Eve are really hearing what are the consequences, not necessarily the curses.
42:10.058 --> 42:11.258
[SPEAKER_01]: The ground was cursed.
42:11.398 --> 42:12.739
[SPEAKER_01]: Adam and Eve were not cursed.
42:13.680 --> 42:18.083
[SPEAKER_01]: The consequences of their choice to do it their own way.
42:18.903 --> 42:20.484
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're hearing about that right there.
42:20.605 --> 42:20.985
[SPEAKER_01]: And then,
42:23.102 --> 42:29.865
[SPEAKER_01]: Adam is given the responsibility of naming Eve, which has its own theological implications.
42:31.046 --> 42:39.809
[SPEAKER_01]: And he calls her Eve mother of all life or giver of all life is how that's translated.
42:40.249 --> 42:45.551
[SPEAKER_01]: So here's the second identity of a woman is that she is a giver of life.
42:46.492 --> 42:49.153
[SPEAKER_01]: So even when you're thinking about with,
42:50.173 --> 42:55.276
[SPEAKER_01]: Your daughter, how do I give her, help her with the discernment of how she does it?
42:56.717 --> 43:06.762
[SPEAKER_01]: As a giver of life, not as a boss, not as a supervisor, but as how am I going to give life into this situation?
43:07.163 --> 43:09.564
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what would that look like?
43:10.084 --> 43:12.065
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think it's fascinating, that's again.
43:12.786 --> 43:15.107
[SPEAKER_01]: Every woman with, even did not have children.
43:16.390 --> 43:23.317
[SPEAKER_01]: every woman who is named whether she's ever a mother or not is a mother in the world.
43:23.497 --> 43:28.763
[SPEAKER_01]: And there were two distinct mothers of Israel in the Old Testament.
43:29.263 --> 43:31.185
[SPEAKER_01]: One was Deborah very much.
43:32.286 --> 43:37.031
[SPEAKER_01]: The way I see Scarlett, like, mature leader knows what to do.
43:37.051 --> 43:39.113
[SPEAKER_01]: And the way I read there's
43:40.647 --> 43:54.085
[SPEAKER_01]: the way I read her story, little frustrated with having to step into her degree of leadership then she wanted to, that's me reading into it, I'm sure.
43:54.661 --> 44:10.152
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then another, uh, a named woman who was called a mother of Israel who saved in an entire city by, again, she seems rather frustrated with the men for not doing the right thing and she had the courage to do something really hard.
44:10.192 --> 44:13.514
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the whole another, be a fan podcast to talk about.
44:13.774 --> 44:23.543
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that, but so if a woman never marries, she is an easier, if she never has children, she is a giver of life.
44:23.823 --> 44:25.145
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's who we are.
44:26.046 --> 44:34.874
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to actually be suppressed or we have to distort ourselves into a different identity to not be that.
44:35.654 --> 44:37.957
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wish I had known that.
44:38.557 --> 44:49.060
[SPEAKER_01]: when I was 26 and I had you, at least that I wish I had known I would was holding this powerful image of God in my arms.
44:50.080 --> 44:50.800
[SPEAKER_01]: But I know it now.
44:51.340 --> 44:53.661
[SPEAKER_02]: So I tell it to everyone.
44:53.821 --> 45:01.343
[SPEAKER_02]: And now we can teach our daughters what that means, hopefully show them a healthy example of what that means.
45:01.563 --> 45:02.563
[SPEAKER_02]: And even just like
45:05.244 --> 45:22.928
[SPEAKER_02]: growing up always you're when you get married and you're going to be such a great mom and seeing what's happening in our culture and a lot of women who would love to be married and they're grieving that and they're like okay I have to provide for myself I have to even just changing the phrasing of like if you get married.
45:23.188 --> 45:23.428
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
45:23.608 --> 45:30.091
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to and if you choose to and if if God like if that happens, if God brings you somebody.
45:30.971 --> 45:32.672
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, if you become a mother.
45:32.732 --> 45:37.774
[SPEAKER_02]: Now yes, do I hope that that is in their future absolutely, but I want to equip them.
45:38.315 --> 45:41.436
[SPEAKER_02]: They can't control how their story plays out perfectly.
45:41.636 --> 45:41.816
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
45:41.976 --> 45:43.437
[SPEAKER_02]: And what will be in their story?
45:43.617 --> 45:50.760
[SPEAKER_02]: If there will be no man to marry, if there will be infertility, if there would be, so having giving them a framework of who they are,
45:51.060 --> 45:51.260
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
45:51.801 --> 45:57.926
[SPEAKER_02]: A part from if they have a husband or kids is really important.
45:58.166 --> 46:00.328
[SPEAKER_02]: So much more we could say there but we will never.
46:00.448 --> 46:01.149
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking at these.
46:01.229 --> 46:03.531
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I don't know how far we're going to get through this.
46:03.591 --> 46:04.552
[SPEAKER_02]: This may need to be too.
46:05.152 --> 46:05.733
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
46:06.153 --> 46:09.396
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm actually going to switch the order that of our notes real quick.
46:09.416 --> 46:09.636
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
46:09.876 --> 46:13.800
[SPEAKER_02]: I want the second one to be because it just flows and we can just touch on this.
46:14.900 --> 46:20.264
[SPEAKER_02]: that we have to, you have to teach her to have a voice and to use it with wisdom.
46:20.604 --> 46:21.825
[SPEAKER_02]: Which we've already touched on.
46:21.845 --> 46:22.525
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh-huh.
46:23.466 --> 46:25.207
[SPEAKER_02]: Proverbs talks so much about this.
46:25.627 --> 46:29.390
[SPEAKER_02]: We've talked about this a lot on here that death and life are in the power of the tongue.
46:29.410 --> 46:31.971
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I would be curious to study that word life.
46:32.932 --> 46:35.574
[SPEAKER_02]: And how, if it has anything to do with the bringer of,
46:36.254 --> 46:38.115
[SPEAKER_01]: the giver of life and evil, you know?
46:38.195 --> 46:39.856
[SPEAKER_02]: What a connection.
46:40.276 --> 46:54.202
[SPEAKER_02]: But there is so much power in our words, women do not lack in words, for the most part, and even probably 21, 9, better to live in the corner of a roof than share a house with a quarrel some wife.
46:54.682 --> 46:55.643
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I hate that one.
46:55.783 --> 46:56.403
[SPEAKER_02]: It's terrible.
46:56.583 --> 46:56.703
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
46:56.923 --> 46:58.364
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's just that idea of that like,
46:58.944 --> 47:25.930
[SPEAKER_02]: that these are gone wrong you know what I mean it is like it is I'm nitpicking I'm telling you how to be better I'm telling like apart from the spirit in my own flesh where we can be incredibly annoying yes and I think even even for thinking right now with my younger kids if it's a lot of like oh try saying mad again teaching them if you say that in a very different tone in a very different way
47:29.991 --> 47:36.653
[SPEAKER_02]: And just starting that so young, being patient with our teenagers when they don't get it right.
47:38.954 --> 47:51.217
[SPEAKER_02]: But teaching them the power of their words and how to, doesn't mean you don't speak up, it means that you need, again, that idea of strength under control of a Holy Spirit.
47:52.217 --> 47:53.978
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything brief you want to say on that mom.
47:54.158 --> 48:17.653
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, just I feel like you hit something really important Is still giving them a voice to speak up because I think I heard this all wrong Not from my mother because she was just coming to faith about the time I was learning this stuff So she came from a completely different world view, but from the Christian world around me what I heard
48:18.593 --> 48:37.010
[SPEAKER_01]: And I doubt it was overt, and I doubt it was even meant sometimes, but what I interpreted as is I just needed to stay quiet and not talk and not offer an opinion and not speak up, and because I'm by nature a little bit.
48:38.521 --> 48:42.826
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, shy, introverted, it wasn't hard for me not to speak up.
48:43.527 --> 48:54.200
[SPEAKER_01]: So when I really began to study this a little bit more, the whole role of a woman, I realized, oh my gosh, is imperative that I speak up.
48:54.961 --> 48:55.642
[SPEAKER_01]: So for me,
48:56.943 --> 49:03.149
[SPEAKER_01]: sin, or, or at least a dropping of my responsibility would be not speaking up at all.
49:03.990 --> 49:09.815
[SPEAKER_01]: For other women, it would be speaking up too much or wrongly or too loudly.
49:10.235 --> 49:16.301
[SPEAKER_01]: But even for me, not speaking up enough, when I do find these speak up, this is crazy.
49:16.941 --> 49:32.145
[SPEAKER_01]: I expect to be heard because there's been so many other times that I have said nothing and now I speak up you have to listen to me and that's just that doesn't work yeah in human relationships Yeah, so I can be strident when I finally do speak up.
49:32.985 --> 49:37.926
[SPEAKER_01]: But point being we do need to teach our daughters that with their voice matters.
49:38.186 --> 49:39.226
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's essential.
49:39.246 --> 49:42.767
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they're voice matters and then to do it with
49:44.768 --> 49:50.115
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would have used the word lady back in the day, but to do it with graciousness.
49:50.595 --> 49:56.463
[SPEAKER_01]: In my view of a lady that was forming when I was talking so much about being a lady.
49:56.543 --> 49:56.783
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
49:56.923 --> 49:59.266
[SPEAKER_01]: Was this very gracious kind of?
50:01.100 --> 50:02.561
[SPEAKER_01]: strong gentle woman.
50:03.082 --> 50:06.444
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we want to develop in our girls.
50:06.585 --> 50:09.227
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but also I love slow.
50:10.107 --> 50:21.817
[SPEAKER_01]: So particularly, because I look at her and I think I admire her confidence that she saw something through and and um,
50:23.278 --> 50:24.359
[SPEAKER_01]: Scarlet has this too.
50:25.200 --> 50:28.183
[SPEAKER_01]: She saw something through and so she voices it.
50:28.483 --> 50:30.124
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I admire that.
50:30.445 --> 50:38.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah her and I admire that you and you as a mother that you have You've both cultivated and you haven't squashed it.
50:39.213 --> 50:40.554
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I think
50:42.310 --> 50:44.893
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not how it was in my early years.
50:45.194 --> 50:48.398
[SPEAKER_01]: So I love that, just as an aside.
50:49.359 --> 50:54.145
[SPEAKER_01]: But also learning when not to speak up.
50:54.986 --> 50:57.930
[SPEAKER_01]: And when not to be the expert, yeah.
50:59.134 --> 51:07.037
[SPEAKER_01]: How to listen well, you know, the funny thing of everybody's all of the norms about AI is going to kill us all.
51:07.438 --> 51:07.618
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
51:07.798 --> 51:10.679
[SPEAKER_01]: And AI is taking the place of jobs and all that.
51:11.279 --> 51:12.920
[SPEAKER_01]: But AI is taught me something.
51:13.300 --> 51:19.543
[SPEAKER_01]: When I ask it for information, its response is so gracious.
51:19.663 --> 51:19.843
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
51:20.283 --> 51:24.886
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't have any done sweater, you know that or or just even give me facts.
51:25.026 --> 51:29.749
[SPEAKER_01]: It's if first affirms me and I know you have to turn that off and feel as it's too much.
51:31.190 --> 51:33.732
[SPEAKER_01]: Get addicted to that affirmation, but it first.
51:35.478 --> 51:37.580
[SPEAKER_01]: Affirm's and then it restates.
51:37.880 --> 51:39.341
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just somebody is taught.
51:39.722 --> 51:41.423
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just relationships.
51:41.724 --> 51:42.304
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
51:42.404 --> 51:43.105
[SPEAKER_01]: To be gracious.
51:43.165 --> 51:43.485
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
51:44.326 --> 51:47.629
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's that idea of like, it's not always what you say.
51:47.649 --> 51:49.110
[SPEAKER_02]: It's how you say it.
51:49.751 --> 51:52.673
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and the discernment to know when to say it.
51:52.813 --> 52:00.039
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I'm seeing so much in our culture, I won't name reality shows that I probably shouldn't have watched anyway.
52:00.860 --> 52:25.139
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, where they end up just becoming this man bashing and then all the women are being praised for bashing the man and it's like woman empowerment to like a disgusting level and then we're angry that men aren't stepping up and they're too passive and they're like, and obviously
52:31.730 --> 52:36.353
[SPEAKER_02]: that, yes, there may be a passivity that absolutely needs to be worked on.
52:36.894 --> 52:44.119
[SPEAKER_02]: But women bashing them into it is never going to accomplish what we wanted to.
52:44.819 --> 52:51.164
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, just teaching them wisdom and that is going to look different for every woman.
52:51.264 --> 52:52.184
[SPEAKER_02]: Some will be quiet.
52:52.885 --> 52:56.327
[SPEAKER_02]: Some will do it very loud in a win some ways.
52:56.547 --> 53:00.270
[SPEAKER_02]: And celebrating all of it is really, really important.
53:00.710 --> 53:04.814
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though not everybody will agree with it.
53:04.974 --> 53:19.726
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a couple of times I have said to your dad, who's a big personality, huge amount of charisma, very directive, I say, you know, he likes, he likes to very clearly tell you what to do.
53:19.987 --> 53:23.930
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and talking to him and saying,
53:29.736 --> 53:32.818
[SPEAKER_01]: What is celebrated as great leadership in you?
53:33.298 --> 53:42.062
[SPEAKER_01]: And like it's so easy to follow your leadership is often resisted and mocked and underappreciated in the moment.
53:42.542 --> 53:53.007
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that's changing, but we need to be at least aware of that, that not every woman will be celebrated because of what she has to offer.
53:53.147 --> 53:54.388
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
53:56.263 --> 53:57.264
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, next one.
53:57.824 --> 54:00.005
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to decide, help me decide on the fly.
54:00.025 --> 54:03.727
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm feeling like this is we're gonna have to cut this into a two-part.
54:03.867 --> 54:04.088
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
54:04.168 --> 54:08.110
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we have, all of this is really, really important.
54:08.330 --> 54:15.134
[SPEAKER_02]: And so maybe where we'll go next and then we'll save the other two and do a part two.
54:17.335 --> 54:22.538
[SPEAKER_02]: But this feels like it goes in line with what we're talking about is teacher theology of work.
54:23.920 --> 54:26.089
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, this also was, uh,
54:29.331 --> 54:38.536
[SPEAKER_02]: and teaching my daughters and I'm experiencing it myself very differently than maybe what I heard growing up.
54:39.197 --> 54:49.863
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we want to talk about like, biblically, what is what a women look like in the scriptures, what does work look like historically and then our current reality.
54:50.423 --> 54:56.087
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk biblically first, you know, I heard growing up everything was about the being a p31, a
54:58.768 --> 55:00.831
[SPEAKER_02]: Like men wanted to marry a P31.
55:00.891 --> 55:02.232
[SPEAKER_02]: You needed to be a P31.
55:02.893 --> 55:06.677
[SPEAKER_02]: But then we also heard like Titus two women or keepers of the home.
55:06.697 --> 55:07.919
[SPEAKER_02]: So you need to be stayed home mom.
55:09.560 --> 55:19.231
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's let's undo and re-teach a little bit here because it's important for like the the mom listening to whether you work
55:20.252 --> 55:25.735
[SPEAKER_02]: outside the home, whether you work inside the home, whether you are a state home mom, and you work inside the home.
55:27.415 --> 55:33.898
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're going to speak to all of that and it's important for us to know it and for husbands to know it.
55:35.039 --> 55:36.660
[SPEAKER_02]: And then for us to teach it to our daughters.
55:36.800 --> 55:39.161
[SPEAKER_02]: So, mom, you go first.
55:40.782 --> 55:45.644
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so, biblically, you're talking about the P31.
55:46.104 --> 55:48.225
[SPEAKER_01]: A couple of things that need to be noted in that.
55:48.645 --> 56:00.272
[SPEAKER_01]: that Proverbs 31 women was being described the context of the Scripture which might have been a hypothetical names because they aren't actual historical names.
56:01.113 --> 56:08.237
[SPEAKER_01]: The the mom of the king, the men, them you well, is telling him
56:09.758 --> 56:15.100
[SPEAKER_01]: It's apparently must be time for him to get married and she's giving up some really good advice before that.
56:15.180 --> 56:17.461
[SPEAKER_01]: Like don't drink too much, a few things like that.
56:17.521 --> 56:18.441
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very practical.
56:19.121 --> 56:22.482
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she's saying, this is the kind of woman you need to marry.
56:23.643 --> 56:29.425
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, over a lifetime, this is a woman with this level of capability.
56:30.185 --> 56:36.652
[SPEAKER_01]: and then she goes on and describes what was culturally current and relevant at their time.
56:38.214 --> 56:41.297
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's talking, she is talking about a king.
56:42.543 --> 56:47.145
[SPEAKER_01]: who is delegating his household to his wife.
56:47.706 --> 57:07.116
[SPEAKER_01]: This would have been her job to manage this big company, essentially, with, in some cases, hundreds of workers and employees, and housing and economy, and all the things, and actually bringing in some income,
57:07.576 --> 57:22.340
[SPEAKER_01]: in Proverbs 31, she goes out and then does an investing, was agricultural society, she considered a field, in other words, what would be the profitability of this for sale and plants of
57:31.262 --> 57:45.010
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, this would have been a CEO of a huge chunk of his kingdom so that he was off winning wars and battles and doing a lot of foreign kind of emissary work.
57:45.711 --> 57:54.736
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and this was not a 1950s stay at home on who is, you know, forming a bridge club because they were bored.
57:54.996 --> 57:56.037
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't enough to do.
57:56.277 --> 58:05.627
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a very highly involved skilled businesswoman, her business was at home, her business was her home.
58:06.428 --> 58:17.820
[SPEAKER_01]: And you see it again in the New Testament like Lydia, who was a seller of purple, again a very highly skilled high-end, probably very wealthy.
58:19.441 --> 58:25.163
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet she opened her home and managed this compound of her home and had a church there, a church met there.
58:25.664 --> 58:31.386
[SPEAKER_01]: So she had some sort of involvement in the leadership of the church too.
58:32.046 --> 58:40.069
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're really not talking about a woman who that's all she's ever going to do in her life.
58:40.829 --> 58:44.210
[SPEAKER_02]: How did we get so far to have a whole...
58:45.875 --> 58:51.758
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to have so much of it, it has to look this way, staying home with your kids.
58:52.098 --> 58:52.318
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
58:52.758 --> 58:54.059
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just fascinating to me.
58:54.759 --> 59:00.542
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also don't want anybody listening to think that we're saying,
59:01.482 --> 59:13.129
[SPEAKER_02]: you have to have a go-get-em-powerful job and raise your children and we're highlighting that vividly women have always worked.
59:13.689 --> 59:15.610
[SPEAKER_02]: Historically women have always worked.
59:16.071 --> 59:19.933
[SPEAKER_02]: Currently most women are having to work to have some sort of income.
59:20.793 --> 59:37.004
[SPEAKER_02]: And even if you're not, and you are a stay-in-home mom with your kids, you are working in a way that other generations have not had to work because you don't have the community, the village, the support, the around you.
59:38.105 --> 59:46.851
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I just think it's important that we actually look at the scriptures like you said, and look and see all the different ways.
59:48.012 --> 59:57.236
[SPEAKER_02]: that women were ezar and all the different ways that they worked to better their community and their homes and their kids.
59:58.136 --> 01:00:10.881
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just think that's it was missed in a generation and it's maybe overdone by culture right now that a woman has to essentially be what
01:00:12.862 --> 01:00:17.244
[SPEAKER_02]: And the best did it in amazing and if you're not, oh, I'm just to stay at home mom.
01:00:17.604 --> 01:00:17.824
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
01:00:18.225 --> 01:00:23.367
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, or stay at home mom, who feels like she has to be doing all these.
01:00:23.647 --> 01:00:23.927
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:00:24.107 --> 01:00:25.208
[SPEAKER_01]: She has to be amazing.
01:00:25.348 --> 01:00:26.068
[SPEAKER_01]: And an expert.
01:00:26.268 --> 01:00:26.368
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:00:26.428 --> 01:00:29.750
[SPEAKER_02]: And tell her, you know, and I think,
01:00:31.333 --> 01:00:53.682
[SPEAKER_02]: if we can help our daughters and if we can understand as women, we were created to work and to mother and to have them and be on mission and to we were created for that and that's actually if that's what we were created to do that's actually where we feel most at home in ourselves and with God and that is going to look
01:00:54.702 --> 01:00:56.744
[SPEAKER_02]: vastly different for every woman.
01:00:56.824 --> 01:00:58.004
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can't prescribe.
01:00:58.024 --> 01:01:00.786
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what it should look like for you.
01:01:01.226 --> 01:01:05.949
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes Anything more on like biblically What we see really?
01:01:06.029 --> 01:01:07.670
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you you hit it right there.
01:01:07.810 --> 01:01:11.292
[SPEAKER_01]: We we shouldn't be just pre-scriping
01:01:12.633 --> 01:01:16.514
[SPEAKER_01]: it's that the biblical principles have always been there.
01:01:17.195 --> 01:01:21.856
[SPEAKER_01]: But then we apply them and they were applied after World War II.
01:01:22.176 --> 01:01:24.877
[SPEAKER_01]: Say, Phil's mom, Ruth, yeah, amazing woman.
01:01:26.198 --> 01:01:30.239
[SPEAKER_01]: They were applied that you would now get to stay home with your kids.
01:01:30.999 --> 01:01:36.261
[SPEAKER_01]: But even she followed a passion in order to her goal of going
01:01:39.702 --> 01:01:42.583
[SPEAKER_01]: her three boys through college without that.
01:01:42.783 --> 01:01:43.383
[SPEAKER_01]: And she did it.
01:01:43.523 --> 01:01:44.183
[SPEAKER_01]: State college.
01:01:44.463 --> 01:01:46.944
[SPEAKER_01]: But she did it.
01:01:46.964 --> 01:01:48.044
[SPEAKER_01]: By becoming a florist.
01:01:48.625 --> 01:01:53.386
[SPEAKER_01]: And then she offered that gift to the church on my wedding.
01:01:53.886 --> 01:01:59.267
[SPEAKER_01]: She consulted me on colors and tried to get me to know what flowers I wanted.
01:01:59.488 --> 01:02:01.348
[SPEAKER_01]: My basically just had no clue.
01:02:02.208 --> 01:02:07.350
[SPEAKER_01]: And I walked in there with a rehearsal dinner and she had created a wonderland.
01:02:08.610 --> 01:02:13.012
[SPEAKER_01]: So she loved through her work and her skill and her artistry.
01:02:13.032 --> 01:02:14.873
[SPEAKER_01]: She's incredible.
01:02:15.433 --> 01:02:22.896
[SPEAKER_01]: But when we start to prescribe, you all have to be like Ruth Comer, or I stayed home without a paycheck for 30 years.
01:02:24.217 --> 01:02:28.360
[SPEAKER_01]: or if you say, oh, you always say, I'll have to be like Diane Comer.
01:02:29.081 --> 01:02:32.944
[SPEAKER_01]: There were reasons, there were reasons.
01:02:33.764 --> 01:02:35.365
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we, is when we get into trouble.
01:02:35.926 --> 01:02:47.354
[SPEAKER_01]: And the one thing that I would say is historically women have always worked, but they've rarely left their children.
01:02:48.655 --> 01:02:58.746
[SPEAKER_01]: or when they did, they had this support network around them or in how that might translate now, is building a support work around you.
01:02:58.826 --> 01:02:59.928
[SPEAKER_01]: So the your children are.
01:03:01.512 --> 01:03:08.137
[SPEAKER_01]: your is it with your children as much as you can be influencing even the people who are caring for the children.
01:03:08.578 --> 01:03:15.183
[SPEAKER_01]: So it would it would definitely influence those who have their kids cared for by others.
01:03:16.244 --> 01:03:19.106
[SPEAKER_01]: You're responsible to, yeah, this is really rough.
01:03:19.646 --> 01:03:19.867
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:03:20.127 --> 01:03:23.730
[SPEAKER_01]: To create your village as best you can around them.
01:03:24.130 --> 01:03:26.131
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, wow paying the bills.
01:03:27.693 --> 01:03:29.294
[SPEAKER_01]: It's never been easy.
01:03:29.694 --> 01:03:29.874
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
01:03:31.356 --> 01:03:56.772
[SPEAKER_01]: My grandmother, which this would have been back in the thirties, okay, right, coming out of the depression, my grandfather inherited and bought out his brothers for a family farm in Eastern Oregon, and he worked the land and was an expert farmer and knew what to do when he was really good at it, good business man.
01:03:57.392 --> 01:04:15.600
[SPEAKER_01]: But my grandmother managed the packing shed on the farm, so she would hire the seasonal workers and order the supplies and supervising this quality of sorting the initial sorting of the apples and she managed the books and she never actually got a paycheck.
01:04:17.081 --> 01:04:18.202
[SPEAKER_01]: But this was her.
01:04:18.222 --> 01:04:19.843
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what she did.
01:04:20.103 --> 01:04:20.323
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:04:20.704 --> 01:04:43.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, but yet nobody would have said, my grandma had a career or that she were, and yet they could not have, and then my grandfather had a stroke and was disabled if she figured out how to do the whole, you know, it's very, farms are very complicated businesses, how to sell the farm, how to be released from the land
01:04:47.143 --> 01:04:55.250
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was a very complicated, while she's caring for terribly disabled, difficult husband.
01:04:55.810 --> 01:05:03.377
[SPEAKER_01]: Women are amazing, and yet nobody would have said, if somebody had asked my grandma what she did, what was her career?
01:05:04.017 --> 01:05:07.440
[SPEAKER_01]: She would have said, ah, and I didn't have a career.
01:05:10.704 --> 01:05:21.881
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just think we have to give credit to him and have always worked and it needs to look different at different stages of our lives, I think that's really important.
01:05:22.782 --> 01:05:37.772
[SPEAKER_02]: I also really appreciate the work that Annie Downes we interviewed her, but has done for singles, like in singles, because she was thinking she's 45, I believe, and just got married like a month ago.
01:05:38.132 --> 01:05:48.366
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, but as had a full career and passions and started talking about singleness because she's always wanted to be buried.
01:05:48.726 --> 01:05:52.632
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and I think especially for our girls.
01:05:54.740 --> 01:06:09.624
[SPEAKER_02]: helping them not just be like, okay, like, graduated high school or graduated college, and I'm just like waiting for my waiting for the one, you know, really helping them develop passions and career.
01:06:09.644 --> 01:06:14.285
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, because they don't know what is going to come in their life.
01:06:14.325 --> 01:06:18.786
[SPEAKER_02]: And they might have a much longer season of singleness than they want to.
01:06:19.366 --> 01:06:20.386
[SPEAKER_02]: And so having something
01:06:26.248 --> 01:06:30.492
[SPEAKER_02]: And then being there as a mom, as they get older, if they're like, okay, well, now what do I do?
01:06:30.512 --> 01:06:31.893
[SPEAKER_02]: I have kids, what do I do?
01:06:31.933 --> 01:06:33.714
[SPEAKER_02]: I leave my passionate jogged, right?
01:06:33.754 --> 01:06:39.058
[SPEAKER_02]: Not like, just being a support to them and helping them discern what that looks like.
01:06:39.178 --> 01:06:43.542
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just remember a lot growing up, there was a lot of just like, I'm waiting.
01:06:43.602 --> 01:06:44.663
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a lady in waiting.
01:06:44.683 --> 01:06:48.846
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a less of that in our culture now.
01:06:49.447 --> 01:06:52.949
[SPEAKER_02]: But even with my daughters right now, helping them dream about.
01:06:53.910 --> 01:06:55.712
[SPEAKER_02]: What is God calling you to do in the world?
01:06:55.932 --> 01:07:00.496
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what would be your dream job vocation?
01:07:00.616 --> 01:07:01.957
[SPEAKER_02]: What would you need to do to get there?
01:07:02.138 --> 01:07:06.401
[SPEAKER_02]: What would you, I mean, the same things we do with our sons, but like doing it with our daughters too.
01:07:06.542 --> 01:07:08.744
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was, there was an absence of that.
01:07:08.924 --> 01:07:09.164
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:07:09.900 --> 01:07:12.721
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the, oh, when I was absolutely.
01:07:12.901 --> 01:07:14.281
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I ever did that.
01:07:14.602 --> 01:07:17.122
[SPEAKER_01]: I would point out things that I thought you would be good at.
01:07:17.462 --> 01:07:23.384
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, um, but we're not, not with the same respect that I gave my sons.
01:07:23.744 --> 01:07:23.925
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:07:24.325 --> 01:07:26.765
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and there's, there's thinking behind that too.
01:07:27.026 --> 01:07:27.206
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:07:27.446 --> 01:07:28.346
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just over done.
01:07:28.686 --> 01:07:29.066
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:07:29.946 --> 01:07:34.608
[SPEAKER_01]: Biblically, a man is tasked with providing for his family.
01:07:34.748 --> 01:07:38.189
[SPEAKER_01]: So he doesn't mean that he provides a loan.
01:07:38.809 --> 01:07:42.710
[SPEAKER_01]: But he is actually responsible for the provision of his family.
01:07:42.830 --> 01:07:48.452
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that may be hard for, that's actually hard for many men to hear.
01:07:48.632 --> 01:07:49.853
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's huge burden.
01:07:52.248 --> 01:07:59.953
[SPEAKER_01]: But a woman, I think, especially with you raising girls to help them see what they're actually passionate about and would be good at.
01:08:00.154 --> 01:08:01.495
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I wanted to be a teacher.
01:08:02.015 --> 01:08:05.998
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was heading towards learning how to be a teacher.
01:08:06.058 --> 01:08:11.381
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have been a terrible teacher because it's so much about classroom control.
01:08:11.962 --> 01:08:14.063
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would have absolutely hated that.
01:08:14.504 --> 01:08:16.005
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have just killed me.
01:08:16.045 --> 01:08:20.548
[SPEAKER_01]: I have so much respect for teachers because they're not only teaching, they're also,
01:08:21.088 --> 01:08:35.903
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of raising the kids and controlling the kids keeping you from killing each other and I would have been terrible But nobody but I was interested in teaching because I liked the whole back end part of it But even helping your daughter
01:08:37.244 --> 01:08:51.314
[SPEAKER_01]: understand her passion and her love and am what she's good at, but keeping in the back of her mind the possibility of being able to stay home when her children are little if she wants to, at least the choice.
01:08:52.335 --> 01:09:07.292
[SPEAKER_01]: Which means maybe for some girls going into debt for a private Christian college that she will be paying off that debt for the next 20 years might be counter to what her actual desires are.
01:09:07.452 --> 01:09:09.935
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know just questioning those kind of things.
01:09:10.575 --> 01:09:24.359
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've had a lot of women who love that they went to school and hate that they have for to $800 a month payments or more for those loans or way more than that and then they don't have a choice.
01:09:24.659 --> 01:09:27.580
[SPEAKER_01]: They have to have to make that payment.
01:09:28.080 --> 01:09:32.902
[SPEAKER_01]: Just really talking about the ins and outs with your daughters about.
01:09:34.083 --> 01:09:35.544
[SPEAKER_01]: what she would love.
01:09:35.925 --> 01:09:39.349
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think also a basic education is just standard.
01:09:39.549 --> 01:09:41.572
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean so that she then has choices later.
01:09:41.932 --> 01:09:42.112
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:09:42.413 --> 01:09:42.613
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
01:09:43.134 --> 01:09:43.354
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:09:44.736 --> 01:09:51.604
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's been interesting to me as I've thought about it being a state home on for so many years and then now.
01:09:53.373 --> 01:09:56.977
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I've been saying as Brook and I processed it like this is so hard.
01:09:56.997 --> 01:10:03.185
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm, I am a state home mom and I'm a working mom because like my rest still is my kids are at home.
01:10:03.285 --> 01:10:04.066
[SPEAKER_02]: They're homeschooled.
01:10:04.226 --> 01:10:04.867
[SPEAKER_02]: There's like,
01:10:07.919 --> 01:10:10.702
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've not always had the best attitude about it.
01:10:10.763 --> 01:10:12.945
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is like so hard so messy.
01:10:12.965 --> 01:10:14.186
[SPEAKER_02]: This is too, I can't do this.
01:10:14.206 --> 01:10:14.827
[SPEAKER_02]: This is too much.
01:10:14.847 --> 01:10:15.027
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:10:15.988 --> 01:10:28.262
[SPEAKER_02]: And even as even in preparing for this and like really thinking about it and thinking through biblically historically, like the messiness of it is okay, the like,
01:10:30.132 --> 01:10:55.347
[SPEAKER_02]: the it feeling like this is a lot is also okay it's just new muscles being built the of of things I haven't had to hold before in addition to the messiness of it and ideals to some ideals needs to be set aside yes that has been the last well
01:10:58.068 --> 01:10:59.430
[SPEAKER_02]: year or two.
01:10:59.450 --> 01:11:19.871
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I'm just learning to even see it in a new light instead of resenting actually just inviting like okay well this is I know this is what you've called me to you just called it to meet me to it a lot earlier than I thought or wanted like I was my neat and tidy was everyone will go to high school.
01:11:20.231 --> 01:11:20.471
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
01:11:20.752 --> 01:11:21.532
[SPEAKER_02]: Then I will work.
01:11:21.832 --> 01:11:22.713
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:11:22.853 --> 01:11:25.576
[SPEAKER_02]: We're still a lot of years away from everybody being in high school.
01:11:25.596 --> 01:11:28.178
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll actually have the first set of kids.
01:11:28.398 --> 01:11:31.641
[SPEAKER_02]: First two, we'll graduate before the other two start.
01:11:31.701 --> 01:11:32.041
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:11:32.421 --> 01:11:32.942
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:11:34.403 --> 01:11:44.591
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, I just, even walking through as we prepared for this and even everything you just said of seeing women in the scriptures and just all the different things that they held.
01:11:44.732 --> 01:11:45.893
[SPEAKER_02]: It was not being tidy.
01:11:46.073 --> 01:11:46.173
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
01:11:46.753 --> 01:12:13.207
[SPEAKER_02]: it was not my work fits into these hours and no kids interrupt me it's I mean it was multifaceted and so even just teaching our daughters our lives are like that that's right I think it is really I think Elizabeth and all honesty you also have not had an example to follow because I was a complete stay at home mom the entire time that you were at home right
01:12:16.549 --> 01:12:29.337
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think for you looking for mentors of women who worked and we're good moms at the same time that that is really important.
01:12:29.357 --> 01:12:37.082
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to seek out those and I think the first things they would tell you is there are certain things you're just never going to be able to do again.
01:12:37.482 --> 01:12:37.982
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:12:38.162 --> 01:12:40.623
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, time is divided.
01:12:40.703 --> 01:12:40.903
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:12:41.623 --> 01:12:49.505
[SPEAKER_01]: And you need to let go of those ideals of the way you think of how old needs to be run or whatever.
01:12:49.785 --> 01:12:52.106
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're going to teach you about delegation.
01:12:52.526 --> 01:12:55.987
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of did our delegation was I did everything at home.
01:12:57.648 --> 01:13:04.032
[SPEAKER_01]: And so worked and paid all the bills, managed the finances.
01:13:04.252 --> 01:13:08.194
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's not your story, that's not very many people's stories right now.
01:13:09.295 --> 01:13:12.697
[SPEAKER_01]: Mine was unique and for a reason, because we don't have tech to go into.
01:13:12.737 --> 01:13:16.019
[SPEAKER_01]: But you look for mentors.
01:13:16.140 --> 01:13:18.181
[SPEAKER_01]: Women who are doing it well.
01:13:18.921 --> 01:13:20.402
[SPEAKER_01]: And you listen really well to them.
01:13:20.903 --> 01:13:21.103
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:13:21.883 --> 01:13:23.584
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just want to know this is about daughters,
01:13:25.937 --> 01:13:30.250
[SPEAKER_02]: I know there's a lot of moms listening who are staying home with their kids, their kids are young.
01:13:32.620 --> 01:13:38.164
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not been fulfilling in the way that they thought it was going to be.
01:13:38.184 --> 01:13:39.125
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard.
01:13:39.545 --> 01:13:41.947
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're seeing women do all sorts of stuff.
01:13:43.228 --> 01:13:54.497
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me just tell you, even in my own story, everything you see is very different than the reality of what it takes for it to, for the part you see to happen.
01:13:54.717 --> 01:13:56.699
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of mess behind the scenes.
01:14:00.923 --> 01:14:23.017
[SPEAKER_02]: Take my own story, take mom's story as an example of like you don't know what is ahead and what these years are forming in years that are entirely necessary for what it is God will call you to when you are in a different season and your season with your young kids is incredibly valuable.
01:14:23.157 --> 01:14:26.559
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and there is so much time
01:14:27.977 --> 01:14:55.113
[SPEAKER_02]: for God to show you what it is he wants you to do for you to actually have the freedom to do it and it will probably look different and cost way more like require more of you than it seems like it would but God is building all of that in you through the longing through the facing disappointment through the constant work of young kids holy smokes it's so much more
01:14:56.253 --> 01:15:17.768
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and and that is not the end of your story and you are not less than if you see somebody else doing something you wish You could be doing or they seem they seem to have the capacity to do all these things like All of our stories are unique and different and there might be times where you're longing to work times where you're longing not to work
01:15:18.508 --> 01:15:47.623
[SPEAKER_02]: And like it will ev, and flow, and I think if we can face that in our own stories, the years of obscurity, motherhood, is obscurity, and if we can even just be showing that to our daughters that like, and doing it honestly, not grabbing and complaining, but like honestly, to set them up for all the different ways that their future could look, but being led by God,
01:15:48.163 --> 01:15:56.390
[SPEAKER_02]: In it and saying here I am Lord like and talking to you has been talking to others like with a lot of discernment What is this season supposed to look like?
01:15:56.510 --> 01:16:07.399
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it was just sitting with Becca if you're listening and she's been an OT for years love being an OT feels like
01:16:08.600 --> 01:16:10.702
[SPEAKER_02]: Being an OT at the hospital, she's good at it.
01:16:11.222 --> 01:16:13.845
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I know I'm good at my job.
01:16:14.565 --> 01:16:23.473
[SPEAKER_02]: She decided, uh, I think it's about about a year to quit her job and be home with her young three girls after they had their third.
01:16:23.493 --> 01:16:24.354
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
01:16:24.394 --> 01:16:34.983
[SPEAKER_02]: She's just wrestling with like, I don't feel good at this, like nothing's ever like you're done at the end of the day and you're like, I did everything I was supposed to do today.
01:16:35.723 --> 01:16:35.944
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
01:16:36.204 --> 01:16:39.788
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was just being honest about like I know was what I was supposed to do.
01:16:40.889 --> 01:16:44.934
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm wrestling with my whole identity and my whole, like, and it's hard.
01:16:45.395 --> 01:16:45.695
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:16:46.195 --> 01:16:46.356
[SPEAKER_02]: And
01:16:47.954 --> 01:16:50.695
[SPEAKER_02]: the more the more we can just do that in front of our kids.
01:16:50.735 --> 01:16:51.935
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:16:52.675 --> 01:17:01.057
[SPEAKER_02]: The more we're setting our girls up for what a life of work for the kingdom of God in all its different facets.
01:17:01.477 --> 01:17:02.217
[SPEAKER_02]: What it looks like.
01:17:03.378 --> 01:17:08.039
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, there's, there's so much, but also for this day at home.
01:17:08.059 --> 01:17:08.359
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:17:08.519 --> 01:17:12.800
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, without me, I even understanding it.
01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:17.341
[SPEAKER_01]: I, those were healing years that needed
01:17:18.101 --> 01:17:30.731
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that needed to happen in obscurity so that my identity would never be attached to my ministry or my work because God was doing all this work in me.
01:17:30.751 --> 01:17:33.113
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember those of the years I lost my hearing.
01:17:35.655 --> 01:17:40.199
[SPEAKER_01]: He was healing me emotionally from wounds from my childhood.
01:17:43.352 --> 01:17:45.914
[SPEAKER_01]: He was working in my kids.
01:17:46.034 --> 01:17:47.195
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always been this for me.
01:17:47.815 --> 01:17:54.019
[SPEAKER_01]: My kids have been part of my healing and my facing my wounds.
01:17:55.260 --> 01:17:56.521
[SPEAKER_01]: Children have a way of doing that.
01:17:56.601 --> 01:17:57.181
[SPEAKER_01]: Bring them up.
01:17:58.162 --> 01:18:05.367
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to be this perfect mom and I kept falling on my face because I needed healing.
01:18:05.787 --> 01:18:11.271
[SPEAKER_01]: I needed to learn how to follow Jesus in my relationships.
01:18:12.073 --> 01:18:12.835
[SPEAKER_01]: and at home.
01:18:13.136 --> 01:18:15.904
[SPEAKER_01]: And so for me staying home was
01:18:17.436 --> 01:18:26.744
[SPEAKER_01]: like going to college, like going to a very long PhD in becoming a healthy woman, a woman of God.
01:18:27.444 --> 01:18:27.644
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:18:28.405 --> 01:18:39.434
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's so much for this day at home, Mom, or I would say that same thing of another mother I know who is working in possible hours and has two very little ones.
01:18:40.135 --> 01:18:42.477
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm seeing healing happen in that one's life.
01:18:44.278 --> 01:18:53.281
[SPEAKER_01]: God is much more concerned for our healing and our, which is salvation and healing are the same word, often in scripture, soza.
01:18:54.181 --> 01:18:57.062
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what he's after in our lives.
01:18:57.722 --> 01:19:08.425
[SPEAKER_01]: And he does not want our identity to be wrapped up and how good of his day at home, mom, we are, or and how great we are at our career, or anything else.
01:19:08.745 --> 01:19:11.746
[SPEAKER_01]: It has to be the identity that we're given by God.
01:19:12.606 --> 01:19:16.507
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes some of us, the obscurity is necessary.
01:19:16.807 --> 01:19:26.030
[SPEAKER_01]: Last week, become good at something that becomes our God, and our identity, and our sense of worth and this world.
01:19:26.790 --> 01:19:35.192
[SPEAKER_01]: So, my sense of worth wouldn't ever be able to be wrapped around my work because God was doing it in my life.
01:19:35.632 --> 01:19:36.414
[SPEAKER_01]: I need it that.
01:19:36.934 --> 01:19:40.880
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not everybody's journey from God.
01:19:41.581 --> 01:19:49.573
[SPEAKER_01]: And now I, I'm actually have worked to do that comes out of those obscure years.
01:19:50.694 --> 01:19:58.177
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that's been my journey and my daughters are taking different journeys because they're being led by the spirit.
01:19:58.357 --> 01:19:58.537
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:19:58.617 --> 01:19:59.698
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really important.
01:20:00.198 --> 01:20:04.219
[SPEAKER_01]: This week, my work is to care for baby Marla.
01:20:05.160 --> 01:20:10.962
[SPEAKER_01]: And in order to give my daughter a much needed chunk of time to do her work.
01:20:11.422 --> 01:20:11.662
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:20:11.962 --> 01:20:15.423
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's out in my little cottage in the back.
01:20:15.483 --> 01:20:18.645
[SPEAKER_01]: She's she comes in glowing because she's accomplished it.
01:20:18.825 --> 01:20:19.545
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
01:20:19.585 --> 01:20:23.886
[SPEAKER_01]: That sense of achievement is just wonderful for her.
01:20:24.166 --> 01:20:28.748
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm investing in the next generation for a week.
01:20:29.188 --> 01:20:30.008
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's amazing.
01:20:30.088 --> 01:20:30.328
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
01:20:30.509 --> 01:20:33.029
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm also re-learning the very
01:20:35.010 --> 01:20:53.726
[SPEAKER_02]: this is what they're doing every day and they let and and they always go to bed with a bit of chaos yeah last night yeah always so okay so we're only going to get to those three we want to do another episode where we will foreshare
01:20:54.566 --> 01:21:13.062
[SPEAKER_02]: talk about teacher a healthy view of her body, so much to say there, so much generational healing that is happening in our family, and then teacher about friendship, about envy and commitment and cultivating friendships and differences, like so much.
01:21:13.803 --> 01:21:15.704
[SPEAKER_01]: to do it with conflict and fashion.
01:21:16.064 --> 01:21:16.184
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:21:16.224 --> 01:21:17.485
[SPEAKER_02]: So much to be said there.
01:21:17.565 --> 01:21:19.346
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to have to part two it.
01:21:19.726 --> 01:21:20.727
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
01:21:21.467 --> 01:21:33.433
[SPEAKER_02]: But man, raising daughters is a beautiful, weighty responsibility, just like raising sons, but and dad and Brooke are going to do one on raising sons.
01:21:33.473 --> 01:21:33.713
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:21:33.753 --> 01:21:36.815
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think even
01:21:37.795 --> 01:21:48.921
[SPEAKER_02]: even those of you raising boys think about this for your future granddaughters for your future daughter-in-laws, you know.
01:21:49.742 --> 01:21:51.843
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, any closing thoughts mom?
01:21:52.063 --> 01:21:58.767
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I just love that the intentionality of the idea of we're preparing ourselves to prepare our daughter.
01:21:59.907 --> 01:22:03.149
[SPEAKER_01]: Interesting enough for a world that we know very little about.
01:22:03.449 --> 01:22:03.709
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:22:04.190 --> 01:22:05.271
[SPEAKER_01]: And interesting.
01:22:05.431 --> 01:22:14.761
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to hold our own hands open, we have to lean in and listen to the spirit because he knows all about the world that they will come of age and we don't.
01:22:16.298 --> 01:22:16.538
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
01:22:16.999 --> 01:22:34.697
[SPEAKER_02]: So as we put in the necessary work of things of teaching our daughters, we're also having to live open-handed to we can't control them or their future or the choices that they make, but we can lay a foundation, hopefully a somewhat healthy one and trust God with the rest.