Affectively - Lightness and Heaviness in networks with Brendon Johnson and Sandra Ortiz | The HOW

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[SPEAKER_01]: So welcome to everyone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So what is a sort of festive episode of effectively that we get to record live with special guests.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And today, thank you, Brandon.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Sandra.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For being here with me in these likeness and heaviness conversation of what's going on in
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[SPEAKER_01]: networks, special focus on emotions.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, very curious to see what is that to tell me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let me briefly introduce our guests.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, we have Sandra Ortiz, this with us and she's a seasoned network.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We were with more than two the kids of cross cultural experience in the philanthropy and social innovation networks.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She's been in many networks, many, many, many, and organizations like the Dialogue Social Enterprise and the BMW Foundation and she's currently at
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[SPEAKER_01]: an ecosystem integrator curious to know more about that at Opportunity Collaboration.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she's a member of a bunch of networks and she's also senior advisor to the Presencing Institute.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she's a mum of twins, amazing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how you do it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And she works towards the more caring and connected world.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And our guest, we have Brendan Johnson another very seasoned.
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[SPEAKER_01]: network we were and Shaper and co-founder of the Future Network.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think Bregnan is a social architect at heart and he's networked beginnings.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They're very interesting.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They go back to working and living with pharmacy and not Africa.
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[SPEAKER_01]: even a day of that comes in the conversation today in the social enterprise sector and he discovered networks as powerful tool for change and his further life she brought him to try to tackle the challenges he was seeing about like a funding and the loneliness of networks among others and all of that is taking him today to his work in the feet to network.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you so much to both
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[SPEAKER_01]: have read a little bit of what is your bias, but I would like to invite you with a question to explain more about your story and your path that brought you to you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I would start with asking you like what is one moment when you first realize the intensity of emotions that being in networks entails.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So there goes my assumption that the intensity is there feel free to
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[SPEAKER_01]: how you go there.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You go first, friend.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you so much first to to hosting this conversation and inviting me and us, and I feel very humbling with full of gratitude.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think the question is interesting for me because I have to be honest that I feel most comfortably in emotions.
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[SPEAKER_02]: is the way that I express, is the way that I sometimes I think I think with my belly and it's easier for me to feel it than even to say it and I go round.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So working in networks has been very comfortable with me and feeling this emotion and it's like I love the the full of it because I this this work is full of the relationship with people but also the relationship with yourself
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[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think, well, it's also a personality thing I'm Mexican and we, and maybe simplistic way is a collective culture where it's around people and when I moved to Germany and currently live in Berlin and Germany, currently since 20 years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: But if that space is where I felt more comfortable and in space is where it's unavoidable to be in emotions.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's pretty much what I can share as part of my story.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think it where it's started.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, even trying to think of how to answer your question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, what?
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[SPEAKER_00]: But when the most like the question of when is it's almost like now, even like in preparation for this call, um, I, I, I wanted Sandra by my side conversation because I, in a way, in some ways, I feel like Sandra is, is my counter part, um,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like she's we've been in spaces together where she's like crying in front of 50 people are getting angry in front of 50 people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I have perpetually sometimes maybe overly optimistic joyful hope for which I guess I've been just taking notes of like all the different ways that I could.
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[SPEAKER_00]: think about emotions in networks and the more I'm thinking the more notes I'm writing which is why I'm saying like my realization is happening now but also even like in the past month or so a number of you on this call just pop it in the chat we'll have probably read this this political statement that's Sandra Corot with me and a bunch of others a few people on this call Corot it
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's other people on this call who have contributed to it in other ways, but it's kind of a combination of like it's we call it a political statement because it's meant to entice us to think about how.
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[SPEAKER_00]: these in a way as Alicia invited these many acts of rebellion in the beginning that's called the work that we are doing collectively and individually and the need for us to be more collective is kind of response to.
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[SPEAKER_00]: the moment and the vast diversity of needs.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what's written in the statement is it's just like full of anhost motion.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is like it's numbing and it's like radical joy and it's connection and it's just like the more I'm re-reading it, the more I'm realizing that that's that's all that it is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like it's it's how we are being human together and collaborating rooted in our emotional connection.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So
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[SPEAKER_00]: In short, well, I will say a lot more about what's in there is that the other notes that I have and my different experiences, I like I come to this conversation feelings slightly.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think slightly out of place to talk about this topic slightly, it's the right word, slightly uncomfortable.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm naming the emotions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: because we're talking about emotions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's okay, but I'm saying that's because I think that like, I also realize that there's so much of the work that we do as rooted in all of these emotions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In a way, this is going to be an exploration of like pulling out what I don't really talk about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm both a bit nervous and excited.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm nervous more than I am most of the time for an online class.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's an honor that I would make you nervous.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want this?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I want to invite you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Can you read us?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the it's difficult to pick your favorite part, but two, three paragraphs, all the statement.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I see this so we can fill it in the room.
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[SPEAKER_00]: or there's so much maybe sender than you can like compliment, like something else that you really love at very read.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But there's a few things that I think for me really stand out.
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[SPEAKER_00]: One is this line kind of about we must remember that this is not the first such moment and I think that right now there's this broad feeling coming heavily from the US but also around the world is a reaction to what's happening there of like oh the world is going in wrong ways or crumbling but I think one
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[SPEAKER_00]: There have been these pockets of resilience many people have been standing up and fighting for justice for many many many years and that has been heavy work that has been deeply work rooted in deep solidarity and joy and love and so that's that's one line just kind of like this is not the first such moment and then we follow up that line but so we come into the space with humility aware that this moment is not new but that it may be a chance at turning point at the moment we've been waiting for a chance to do something
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[SPEAKER_00]: the honor and healer histories to radical, radically concrete and new future rooted in equity and dependence into it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that to me is just like,
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[SPEAKER_00]: it's a rallying, it's a call to action and it's a statement that is meant to kind of like uplift and inspire and rally as but also to remind us that like in any moment of crisis or change or when we can feel fearful and even more deeply disconnected there is also opportunity and and I think that
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[SPEAKER_00]: in my experiences in kind of spending a lot of time living with like I don't I don't come from I come from privilege and I don't come from kind of having experience oppression in my childhood, but I spent a lot of time living with others who have and I do think that that optimism joy and hope and connection and solidarity can still very much not all the time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's not just
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think really important to me, send her the other lines that like stand up to you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You're on your mute, send her.
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[SPEAKER_02]: No, I am.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you mentioned many, but I was thinking something that it's very present for me is this part.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This part now finished with the part that it's for me very important.
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[SPEAKER_02]: We know that networks are a form of freedom, a form of power, a quiet transformational power that institutions can replicate, the chief systems through shifting relationships and visibility and voice, but not no single network, no matter how brilliant can change complex systems alone.
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[SPEAKER_02]: As long as we stay fragmented, we will never reach the scale of change we seek.
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[SPEAKER_02]: And that's something that it's very, it really translate what I've been feeling for many years.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes I feel like a Kamalion that every night work and like I don't know like maybe 15 years ago when the impact ups and this was like a
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[SPEAKER_02]: popping up everywhere and I was feeling it and I felt it felt for me like going into gardens and some smelled and taste differently and there were something about like this doers of the impact how people and like that it was maybe like a rhythm for me to feel like like smell like a then becorps movement and system of especially in Latin America, something very masculine but like powerful and then the leg of interest something very feminine
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[SPEAKER_02]: So it was like walking into roses and different fragrances and I always saw like so much inter dependency or inter bean but how it stayed so lightly connected but not functioning together to create like a big wave bringing like cooking together and and and this statement was something that I felt like
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[SPEAKER_02]: If when it's really, really now, because I see so much so much in the pain and the illusion of insignificance that we're fearing and seeing in the moments of that we're living, there's no other way and the beauty of being in this spaces is that you have the collective wisdoms of all these
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[SPEAKER_02]: or contemplating beauty, beauties of different ecosystems of walking into a rainforest and then walking into the mountain forest and seeing all this, that is somehow complex but it's existing, creating just together something beautiful.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So this political statement went brand-ony invited me to be part of it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I felt that yes, it's something that speaks out to my gut.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because I have really a hard time to put things in words because I perceive it in me and my body.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's just a beauty and joy and magical but also straight to the point and what I believe should we encourage more and do more.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I was wondering if you could tell, let's say also from your experience, if you could tell us a little story, of a time, a moment in which you felt the heaviness in a network.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And how did you navigate that?
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[SPEAKER_00]: When you, when you asked, you've practiced with these questions.
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[SPEAKER_00]: There was like, there was one story that really stuck out to me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It goes back to, when let's see, this was 2015 or 16 when my partner and I we spent in a number of years living the big in Egypt, first kind of entire working with a lot of different social enterprises and then.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We moved down to the countryside and we started this little project with a bunch of farmers that was kind of really focused on food transformation and it was rooted in kind of like a bunch of local networks and international networks particularly slow flu slow food and it was rooted in just
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[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of different kind of principles that really informed my thinking today and and I also call it my period of unlearning because being where I was, I was in a position where I really needed to kind of stay more behind the scenes and spend more time listening and unlearning and I just I spent, I just learned so much there.
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[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that has that really hit me hard and that kind of just opened my eyes to like an emotional experience that I think I'd never experience my life because of that experience that I have had in my life is we were prepping you know, is this small kind of.
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[SPEAKER_00]: kitchen that were about seven different women that were cupping this this pizza that they had kind of developed that was like using a Egyptian ingredients and had like everybody who would taste it in Cairo and just kind of raved about it and loved it and they said it was a pizza in Cairo
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was really cool because they got invited as big festival on the pyramids, which was like unheard of for kind of the community that we were working with.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so we spent a lot of money with this big amount of prep.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And then one of kind of a, again, another member of the community went to deliver some of the equipment.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and at the gate, there's something telling us during the long time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: One of the guards started asking questions and it was just the so obvious, the contrast of what kind of you looked like in the equipment he brought to the truck there was driving compared to all the others who were like,
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[SPEAKER_00]: like KFC and Pizza Hut who were bringing their own professional, whatever, whatever you want to call it, but basically they said, you can't come, you can't be here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And even though the organizers of the festival had kind of set up everything for us, the guards at the front use this deep level of prejudice against against this kind of disfarmor, just to say that this is not your place.
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[SPEAKER_00]: we just kind of sat there and we had everything ready and we was like all loaded into the end of the crime we were ready to bring all the ingredients and everything and then we got the call and we were like this weird debate things or anything we could do and we called around a bunch of other people and there was nothing we could do and let me just kind of like stroke their shoulders and just like since our life is what it was for me I'd never, I'd never felt anything
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[SPEAKER_00]: and it still just really sticks with me today because I think it's a stark reminder of many, many, many people around the world live with a daily oppression that I think that's what this work is all about, but sometimes it can feel separated and removed, especially when
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[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to summarize what I'm saying, which is fine, because this is just a story.
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[SPEAKER_00]: For me, it's always important to go back to that story and the experience to remind myself, to ground myself in what we're fighting for and who should be a part of this basis that we curate, which is what I think networks can do beautifully and should do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, okay, there's more that I can say that I think I'm just going to stop for a moment and collect my own my own emotions and turn it over to Sandra, be your story.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, thank you, Brandon.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think something that still alive in me and to be honest, I haven't been able to have an answer but to dance with a complexity is when the war started and I'm in many, I've been many networks in community, and
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[SPEAKER_02]: and there's like this WhatsApp group or this other group and this other group when from pain and especially at the beginning when the situation between Israel and Hamas and Palestine and
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[SPEAKER_02]: and seeing all the wounds open, and not being able to reach that, and so many networks.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's still something that it feels very painful, because it's so complex that it's so hard to put a band that's
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[SPEAKER_02]: Deep, deep, deep, deep wounds and traumas and life experiences and worldviews and cosmovisions that it's, that it's something that sometimes in the shadows
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[SPEAKER_02]: When we stop looking at each other as we, as we united with a, with a, with a, with something with that glue that reminds us that we love this planet and not just we with the humans, but we with our planet with with that we are nature and that nobody, nobody wants to wake up well, no that.
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[SPEAKER_02]: maybe there are a few people that stands up and so like I'm going to contaminate water more today.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Because we of course we have different worldviews and it depends but that's something that has triggered me how many wounds and how and so many what's up so much aggression and also so I saw it and that's something that in this work the work of really working into the quality of relationships
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[SPEAKER_02]: between people but like really also into how to deal that with you because some of these things wake up things in you that are linked to your emotions and that like my history and going to what I'm powerless to asking you.
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[SPEAKER_02]: If I see a policeman, I feel completely different than other people that see a policeman on the street.
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[SPEAKER_02]: because my history and where I come from and create something different.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have to do anything with a policeman, but it's how we have so much weight as being a Mexican with my colonelized wounds, and so there it's so complex.
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[SPEAKER_02]: When something like that happened, how to breach thinking that's one and the other, I think it's to empower power and money and the in networks there always some like honest book and power and the power dynamics that it turned also in personalities.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So that's something that for me it's also a question on how to really
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[SPEAKER_02]: and using the beautiful framework from changing the mental to move from oppressive practices that we all have to more and they call it healing practice and liberating practices as like an everyday muscle is like going to do yoga or whatever in your meditate.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's a everyday practice that you just practice yes with others, but also it has to do a lot with how you appear and how what you do.
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[SPEAKER_02]: So this would be like some of the experience that I found very challenging and difficult.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Just a quick addition to that kind of question of heaviness, like things that we often hear from others, because there's, I don't know, I've written two
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[SPEAKER_00]: And sure, there's a lot more, like in addition to all the stuff that Senator just mentioned, three might guess three things that come through a lot.
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[SPEAKER_00]: One is this, the power question is, is that the egos people that are kind of trying to curate, especially inclusive or decentralized networks or communities or it or movements.
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[SPEAKER_00]: potentially right into these people who just have powerful egos that really try and control the space in control room.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a huge, huge challenge that many people get.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It drains them emotionally, especially people that don't have the practice for how to check those egos at the door.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Another thing I think is this complexity can feel extremely overwhelming.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It can networks and movements have this kind of ambition to really shift systems.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Part of the reason we were
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[SPEAKER_00]: We also, I like to say, like, we don't need to hold this burden of change on our own shoulders or our networks shoulders have been like it happens that ecosystem that happens across many different networks and so in real systems change happens, but that complexity can feel very overwhelming to a lot of people and that can often block people in the third emotion heavy emotion that I think often comes through is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: very runically lonely and especially for people running or knitting leading networks is the sense of like I would understand what I'm doing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like trying to do six people's work in a third of one job and it's just like
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[SPEAKER_00]: Um, there's this sense of not just not being understood, but just feeling very alone and trying to kind of like navigate through the dark, which is which is one of the main reasons if you do not work was founded to kind of tackle that that loneliness.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for let's say moving us through these emotions that you've been naming things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The beginning, you started even with your intro, Brendan with joy as a survival tool, come back to that, then you were mentioning Sandra's well, the pain, the pain of separation, the wounds, the pain of colonization, so it's an intergenerational pain as well, the overwhelm, the loneliness, and sort of the, the ego's, I don't know, it's like the challenge, or like the, it's overwhelmed in a way, as well, that people might feel
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[SPEAKER_01]: working in networks alone.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for starting to paint paint that landscape with me, just because it relates to a point that you shared, I'm going to fish a question already from the chat.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Soundwall is asking you, Brendan, like when you go back to that incident now, can you see something new in it?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, I saw the question too.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I was trying to think
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that it just, it helps remind me and grounds me in whenever I feel like I often feel like in our work right now that we have that we're not necessarily including the types of people that I used to have deep relationships when we saw deep relationships that were used to kind of like
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[SPEAKER_00]: And so whether it what like looking back here and how I whether it reveals something new to me, I'm not so sure, but it does I think what it did at that point is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: lifted up my understanding, but kind of like really underlined the need for what I would now call systems change and I didn't have that language back then and I might even sure that I really love that language now.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just like that these small initiatives, I mean, we were a part of kind of like we were a local community initiative that was a part and interacted with
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[SPEAKER_00]: that we were still very much not moving towards the conditions, that I think could happen.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think what may be one thing looking back today, in addition to it being kind of like a check for me, are we taking the right direction?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Whether a work, and it will always be a check for me,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Also, I guess, a check in looking at how we shift systems is the kind of shift system shifting work, really tackling that kind of on the ground oppression and creating kind of a level of equity where people who live with this sort of oppression.
25:04.146 --> 25:12.649
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like I'm just my mischaracterizing that the people who I love and admire dearly by putting them in a box of oppression, but I don't want to do that.
25:15.590 --> 25:22.692
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really struggling to pull out the words for this, but I think that it helps me think about what systems change really means in practice.
25:23.052 --> 25:33.254
[SPEAKER_00]: That's probably the coming, I guess I would come from the lens of systems change more from that, and kind of like the academic lens that I think a lot of other people might come from.
25:33.754 --> 25:43.997
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think having that rooted grounding also emphasizes the important going back to my point before that if networks are not inclusive of people who have the experience on the ground,
25:46.038 --> 25:54.770
[SPEAKER_00]: of the challenges that those networks are trying to solve, or address, then I don't think that they're actually doing the right kind of work.
25:54.910 --> 25:57.894
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's one thing I would say right now.
25:58.115 --> 26:00.138
[SPEAKER_00]: Ask me again in like two years and I might say something different.
26:00.519 --> 26:01.460
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that.
26:01.821 --> 26:10.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's effectively, we talk about networks and emotions and we also kind of bridge research, academic research and practice.
26:11.133 --> 26:13.576
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a researcher, let me write this.
26:13.717 --> 26:16.180
[SPEAKER_01]: Ben had a rush and just put the name in the chat.
26:16.460 --> 26:20.244
[SPEAKER_01]: in the follow-up email you will get a link to a couple of his papers.
26:20.584 --> 26:30.293
[SPEAKER_01]: He talks about networks or let's say in his language, an alternative organizations as places of emotional exuberance, which I love the expression.
26:30.553 --> 26:36.158
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's say I work with the assumption that that's the case, but again feel free to to contradict me.
26:36.378 --> 26:37.219
[SPEAKER_01]: For what do you say I think?
26:37.419 --> 26:37.640
[SPEAKER_01]: Where?
26:37.740 --> 26:37.900
[SPEAKER_01]: Where?
26:38.100 --> 26:38.760
[SPEAKER_01]: more level-eyed.
26:38.960 --> 26:40.401
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are like big oscillations.
26:40.441 --> 26:44.684
[SPEAKER_01]: He also talks about the oscillations between one extreme and the other.
26:44.864 --> 26:55.269
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want it to ask you, what can we do to learn to navigate this better, this oscillation being in the extreme, we're penulating oscillating from one to the other.
26:55.510 --> 27:02.293
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can let us know if you've read anything or in the more abstract, there are also like, what are those learnings for you?
27:02.353 --> 27:05.215
[SPEAKER_01]: Your practices, your tools, for that.
27:05.635 --> 27:09.577
[SPEAKER_01]: and maybe you've never thought about that and you know it comes up as you're talking that's perfectly fine.
27:09.597 --> 27:12.959
[SPEAKER_01]: No need to give a complete round-up answer to this.
27:12.979 --> 27:14.680
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a Sunday, I want to start maybe.
27:15.060 --> 27:23.245
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I think what I think we humans are meant to be in companion and in community and networks.
27:23.285 --> 27:27.067
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's just the most natural way and through our
27:34.685 --> 27:43.229
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, independent, you know, this or, um, yeah, some more in the brain and alone.
27:43.589 --> 27:51.773
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, well, practices just have fun, you know, don't take yourself so much serious as it can be heavy, but also life is just beautiful.
27:51.993 --> 27:54.914
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love just one of the former presidents of
27:55.294 --> 27:59.836
[SPEAKER_02]: of Uruguay, Muhega, he wrote something beautiful.
27:59.896 --> 28:03.517
[SPEAKER_02]: It says, like, everything I did was to change the world.
28:03.617 --> 28:08.599
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't change a fuck, but I had a little fun on the way.
28:08.659 --> 28:14.501
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, have fun, don't forget to have fun, to play, to enjoy and watch little things.
28:14.561 --> 28:23.105
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that also on the networks, that's something that always come up, is just the lightness of being together and cook and dance.
28:23.885 --> 28:49.588
[SPEAKER_02]: sit on the fire, something that really helped me as some tools over 10 years ago and not making, but like some of these frames, like the theory you and how do you listen, how you look of serve, observe, observe, look to like pay attention to your own attention, something practices that are not just from here there and like waking up your voice of judgment,
28:50.889 --> 28:54.431
[SPEAKER_02]: fear, but go a little deeper on why do I feel that?
28:54.491 --> 28:57.552
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's that was has been very framing.
28:57.592 --> 28:59.433
[SPEAKER_02]: It can be done in spaces.
28:59.633 --> 29:16.622
[SPEAKER_02]: Also gather, be together, enjoy these are rituals and practice that I believe most of the most beautiful spaces that I've been in these different networks are in the talent shows or in the informal parts where you are just dancing, playing, having a drink.
29:16.862 --> 29:17.322
[SPEAKER_02]: And so,
29:17.622 --> 29:20.103
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, leave life and live it together.
29:20.123 --> 29:22.883
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's something that I see more and more.
29:22.983 --> 29:24.944
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's so many frames.
29:25.384 --> 29:30.366
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, from the other thing, I'm belonging, instituted the target universalism or bridging.
29:30.446 --> 29:35.387
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I found it so for me that I have a hard time putting things into words.
29:35.647 --> 29:36.627
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just helpful.
29:36.687 --> 29:38.848
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's helpful for me to see it too.
29:39.448 --> 30:01.132
[SPEAKER_02]: to use other this kind of frames that help you and also on the I think the system change word is overwhelmed and it seems for me sometimes a little dangerous the appropriation of all of this language that everybody is doing system change because that's for me it looks very methodological most of the work as just like ah you map
30:01.492 --> 30:27.142
[SPEAKER_02]: do this, just gather the stakeholders, but actually it doesn't change anything because at the end there is always this power dynamics that goes where a deeper on the quality of how you have your own awareness on how you go deeper into and in networks you can practice that, you can create spaces and also yeah relax and it's not that it's not going to happen tomorrow, so patience and
30:27.702 --> 30:29.763
[SPEAKER_02]: dance with a rhythm of life.
30:29.903 --> 30:31.683
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess that would be cooked together.
30:31.883 --> 30:34.103
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everything all of the about it.
30:35.684 --> 30:49.947
[SPEAKER_00]: So this this podcast event is part of everybody here knows part of the network's festival and as I think everybody here knows the network's festival has a slogan which is if you want to change the world through a better party, which we borrowed from
30:50.758 --> 30:51.999
[SPEAKER_00]: a network weaver.
30:52.019 --> 31:02.463
[SPEAKER_00]: And when we first leaned into that, we first put that slogan up, it I think was so well received that we had just like leaned more and more and more into that idea.
31:02.703 --> 31:10.926
[SPEAKER_00]: And it has just I think the more we lean into it, the more it does for us as a as a network, the more it serves the network.
31:11.146 --> 31:13.567
[SPEAKER_00]: And and I think that that is because,
31:15.928 --> 31:17.569
[SPEAKER_00]: which is we take ourselves to seriously.
31:17.729 --> 31:31.114
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, a lot of the chant that issues we are facing are they like, if some of them don't get addressed, they will have series often deadly consequences for many people, but that isn't mean that we have to be so serious all the time.
31:31.134 --> 31:32.754
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, sometimes it shocks me.
31:32.814 --> 31:38.976
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some questions I'm not monitoring most of the questions in the chat, but there are some questions about like how we take care of each other, how we deal with the emotional
31:43.518 --> 32:00.241
[SPEAKER_00]: in ourselves but also in the systems that we're in a lot of people are feeling right now in the time that we're in we go through these periods of really intense emotions and then some kind of like more stagnant periods and I think that works too as well and I think networks have the
32:00.761 --> 32:01.803
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people will talk about networks.
32:02.103 --> 32:03.805
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about the rhythms of networks.
32:03.825 --> 32:14.318
[SPEAKER_00]: Network have these rhythms and a part of that is the rhythm of how people connect and how the network does its strategy and thinking and realignment, but also part of that is a rhythm of like when there is high energy.
32:14.773 --> 32:38.463
[SPEAKER_00]: when there is low energy, and that's actually very good to have those different rhythms and waves in an network and the lower energy also helps it gives us time to reflect and give us time to kind of pause to think about and feel what we're feeling, but it also informs the kind of the next wave of how we respond and
32:38.703 --> 32:43.226
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think, like, throughout all of that, you can always, always insert an element of fun.
32:43.366 --> 32:53.992
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when you're dealing with very serious issues of trauma and pain, you can insert always fun and always insert relationship building, which in a way is also fun.
32:54.193 --> 32:58.695
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, that, I think, is the recipe that makes this kind of work.
32:58.735 --> 33:06.200
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a we have a model, a name formal model, and somewhere in our website that we say relationships that we have everywhere all the time, because I think there's also sometimes this perception that, like,
33:06.559 --> 33:10.121
[SPEAKER_00]: There's time for action, there's time for learning, there's time for relationships, but no the end.
33:10.241 --> 33:21.029
[SPEAKER_00]: Like every single moment, where people are in the same room together, online or offline, there should be a moment for those people to build a level of relationship that's deeper than what they already have all the time.
33:21.369 --> 33:25.772
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is the way that we kind of serve ourselves.
33:25.872 --> 33:33.297
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the way that also, I mean, obviously it's the way that we make change, but it's also the way that we kind of like, we create this response to these,
33:33.957 --> 33:38.000
[SPEAKER_00]: these heavy emotions is through through those relationships.
33:38.260 --> 33:44.926
[SPEAKER_00]: I have more to say about like hope and dreaming and caring and love and liberation.
33:44.946 --> 33:59.397
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some other keywords that I wrote down, but maybe one other thing that I'll say about this kind of like oscillation is that the, I think a lot of this work is really helpful when we talk in metaphors, which gender has done a few times now, because it emphasizes
33:59.677 --> 34:02.358
[SPEAKER_00]: how much of this is innate to us.
34:02.378 --> 34:09.019
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people who run networks really struggle because the work of networks is so contrary to how we're trained to work.
34:09.079 --> 34:15.880
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everything about it is contrary to how like especially like the Western idea of how are we kind of our trained to work.
34:16.280 --> 34:24.562
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the metaphors really emphasize like we play this game sometimes we're just like doing all the metaphors that relate to networks.
34:24.582 --> 34:28.103
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's like dozens that come through from like, you know, my salium to parenting.
34:29.812 --> 34:44.760
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, the metaphor of the seasons of the changes in seasons for places of the world that have seasons because not everybody does, but the changes in the seasons, I think is really helpful as a metaphor to think about that oscillation because there are periods of composting there are periods of
34:45.563 --> 34:53.068
[SPEAKER_00]: regeneration, there are periods of death, but that death isn't necessarily, like it leads to two more growth.
34:53.308 --> 34:58.312
[SPEAKER_00]: I find a lot of people speak about that metaphor of seasons and that's really helpful in this case.
34:58.512 --> 34:59.712
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
34:59.813 --> 35:06.257
[SPEAKER_01]: So I understand this was some ways in which you intentionally invite lightness into network spaces when things
35:06.617 --> 35:22.811
[SPEAKER_01]: feel heavy and or they are heavy because of the circumstances we said relationships fun, humor, play games and you both very strongly talked about the relationship building and the reflection and in all of those elements that can be fun.
35:24.372 --> 35:24.812
[SPEAKER_01]: as well.
35:25.012 --> 35:48.763
[SPEAKER_01]: And I wanted to ask if you could give us another example of a moment when you were when you felt you were dancing between these two lines, itness, and heaviness, and I can share for example because you now said the word composting, I remember a few years ago we were composting in that work, which you know, I think that sometimes we talk very lightly about, sometimes you have to compose, and it's just so
35:52.625 --> 36:06.176
[SPEAKER_01]: let's say composed an network that you've been very involved in and all the hopes that where puts into it, that you wanted to achieve, that you wanted to see happening and then while you decide, that you have to take that road.
36:06.396 --> 36:16.164
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember in a sharing circle, it was online going into each other's needs and how we were feeling that felt, you know, it was difficult.
36:16.204 --> 36:20.188
[SPEAKER_01]: It was people also losing their income because we're going to shut down
36:20.648 --> 36:25.792
[SPEAKER_01]: this network and other people's needs that couldn't be met anymore.
36:25.812 --> 36:37.080
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really challenging, but there was a moment I think of this magic of listening that happened there, also sometimes there are these moments of no things just click because it's what needs to happen in the moment, right?
36:37.140 --> 36:43.664
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we're going to that level of listening that I think you were describing for Sandra, but it's okay, this is what some
36:47.527 --> 36:49.989
[SPEAKER_01]: to go into the lightness because we were online.
36:50.189 --> 36:51.450
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we met in person.
36:51.730 --> 36:57.414
[SPEAKER_01]: And there was much easier to go into humor and fun and making fun of each other and ourselves.
36:57.634 --> 37:02.658
[SPEAKER_01]: And that combination from it's a very bit of sweet experience, but very rich.
37:02.738 --> 37:13.265
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the deepest things that I have experienced in networks, this sort of, you know, we compose together and then what we continue in our paths and then what we meet and we can still,
37:13.625 --> 37:17.509
[SPEAKER_01]: have a good time while doing this difficult work of composting this.
37:17.529 --> 37:19.711
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was wondering, do you have examples?
37:19.771 --> 37:22.414
[SPEAKER_01]: That's minus thing of a dance between the two.
37:22.754 --> 37:24.956
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything that comes up from your experiences.
37:25.216 --> 37:25.416
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
37:25.757 --> 37:29.580
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no example I resonate with something, but it's not really an example.
37:29.620 --> 37:35.706
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of the of something that we need more to learn and is, is to not perpetuate.
37:35.946 --> 37:37.208
[SPEAKER_02]: I think part of the
37:37.668 --> 37:47.272
[SPEAKER_02]: big problem that we have is that at the end, we all have the intentions and will, but we want at the same time to perpetuate.
37:47.472 --> 37:53.414
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think on the slide, as it's how to also know when it's over and drive.
37:53.534 --> 38:00.517
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's something very difficult because our system is so made to have your brand to have your dead.
38:00.537 --> 38:01.897
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's not you don't exist,
38:03.318 --> 38:18.711
[SPEAKER_02]: I think one moment that when you were talking, I felt is was trying to create an artwork and being in person and having an agenda and then throw away the agenda and do a do-day's check-in where everybody spoke like,
38:19.371 --> 38:36.256
[SPEAKER_02]: 40 minutes and it was necessary, you know, I think at the one moment when you act, I think that the seasons can happen in one day or it can happen in a gathering, like all four, or you feel like in the next season or everything.
38:36.696 --> 38:53.802
[SPEAKER_02]: So, um, I think one of the most challenged that we have to face in our work and community-building networking is to let go the illusion of our own control of our existence and really put on serve the power that we all bring when we're together.
38:54.082 --> 38:56.743
[SPEAKER_02]: And money can be a thing, you know, it's like,
39:03.906 --> 39:09.549
[SPEAKER_02]: have this collective fund and how those that will be looking if it's just to empower everybody.
39:09.790 --> 39:20.357
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think this is something that I do believe that in the moment that we're living, this is a great opportunity because there is especially in the U.S.
39:20.437 --> 39:21.598
[SPEAKER_02]: there's no other ways.
39:21.778 --> 39:26.680
[SPEAKER_02]: with all these new decisions from the U.S.
39:26.720 --> 39:29.220
[SPEAKER_02]: government that there is going to be some cuts.
39:29.660 --> 39:40.944
[SPEAKER_02]: But how can we be connected from the possible future that we will see and not from the organizations and networks or whatever we represent?
39:41.264 --> 39:55.445
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so difficult now, because there is also this power of existence, but that's something that it's really every day, it has to be a way where we can do that more, where we can co-been and look out for each other.
39:56.366 --> 40:02.108
[SPEAKER_02]: And admire and also accept, maybe, we don't need to have both, but maybe I can unite.
40:02.368 --> 40:06.109
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, like how can we merge more and become them?
40:06.469 --> 40:15.712
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think I went completely somewhere different, that's what came out of my belly, and with that, I pass it on to Brendan.
40:16.092 --> 40:16.992
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Sandy's belly.
40:19.147 --> 40:28.693
[SPEAKER_00]: You're supposed to say unmuted, it's the podcast that they can hear you laughing, like some party person in the center is laughing and laughing in myself, laughing with me.
40:28.973 --> 40:35.157
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I was trying to think of different stories of the dance.
40:35.838 --> 40:54.679
[SPEAKER_00]: and there's so after many years of engaging in many different networks, still one of my favorite spaces that I've seen curated is the Tatumad that I conference, which happens every two years in the conference and I don't think they call a conference at in the hosted by Sloffoode here in Italy.
40:55.680 --> 41:01.186
[SPEAKER_00]: This international food festival, essentially, but what I really love about is, I mean, it's celebratory.
41:01.226 --> 41:01.846
[SPEAKER_00]: There's music.
41:01.886 --> 41:11.296
[SPEAKER_00]: There's food and food is the ultimate connector and the ultimate kind of speaker of culture and then there's food is the gateway for so much.
41:12.537 --> 41:30.759
[SPEAKER_00]: We a lot of the issues that Slow Food is trying to address is really to kind of climate change and and also indigenous and local community rights or to food and to land and they kind of knowledge that is held in many traditional communities that.
41:31.900 --> 41:46.832
[SPEAKER_00]: our traditional knowledge held in many communities that is just so powerful that is dying a particular around food and they put a lot of effort into just bringing people from many different parts of the world to just share their food and then to go and talk about their food and a lot of the people that
41:47.292 --> 42:02.242
[SPEAKER_00]: We have the kind of we knew or worked with the lived within in Egypt and some to need in other places, not only at never left the country, some have never left their village and then they're going to this international stage where the language is being translated to others about the work that they're doing.
42:02.482 --> 42:17.667
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is a beautiful example of a dance like it goes back to even the story that I shared before that was like a micro example of you know they mean 9% 9% of the work was just this deep experience of connection of exchange.
42:18.047 --> 42:32.041
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things that also happened there in Egypt every year was the international, there was the local date festival that brought together people from all over the place to just celebrate the the date harvacity, all different kinds of date food and due date projects.
42:32.081 --> 42:38.948
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that this idea of just celebrating and having festivals that uplift
42:39.368 --> 42:59.147
[SPEAKER_00]: everything that is there that gives space for people who don't necessarily always have this space to show what they know and just gives space for people to connect and enjoy for a way, especially when it's around food, is how to achieve that dance, is how to find that balance between the heaviness of the real issues.
42:59.421 --> 43:00.561
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that, Grandma.
43:00.762 --> 43:01.262
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Andrew.
43:01.862 --> 43:16.567
[SPEAKER_00]: Last year, and we visited the summer of friends in Geneva, and they were really struggling because they had adopted these indigenous practices or like ancient grains that they were growing for many years, and it had served them all for many years, but like the water was in coming.
43:16.927 --> 43:19.268
[SPEAKER_00]: The rain wasn't coming in, so they were like, our food's not growing.
43:19.288 --> 43:20.789
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't even know how we're going to feed our family.
43:21.009 --> 43:21.389
[SPEAKER_00]: And so,
43:22.109 --> 43:33.892
[SPEAKER_00]: the issues that we're facing now are real, real heavy, or a lot of these people, but still there can be that dance and that celebration and that joy and these moments of beauty and connection that let us know.
43:34.173 --> 43:35.393
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
43:35.733 --> 43:36.313
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of that.
43:36.333 --> 43:37.633
[SPEAKER_01]: I have one more question for you.
43:38.054 --> 43:41.695
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do the thing there is an emotional labor in networks?
43:42.195 --> 43:43.035
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the short answer is,
43:47.610 --> 44:03.338
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not choosing to the work of working in networks, like maybe maybe you choose to do the work of working in social change because it's a good study, but like this maybe this was pretty like USA, the cuts, but like it was a good study job that paid well, especially in certain parts of the world.
44:03.358 --> 44:08.601
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe maybe certain, you don't choose to do the work of networks.
44:08.901 --> 44:11.543
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not deeply emotionally invested because it is not as
44:12.043 --> 44:30.929
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only does not pay well, but it involves a lot of time, energy, dedication, and I think in particular for those movements that are led by people for whom the issues are front and center in their daily lives, like they do it because it is about their lives.
44:31.129 --> 44:33.830
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you can't separate the emotions
44:40.972 --> 44:43.673
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that if we try to, it does the work to service.
44:44.033 --> 44:49.256
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what I think the more important thing is how we, how we help each other through that.
44:49.476 --> 44:58.279
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, yes, we need to not just take off the masks the masks should never be on, but that means that there is an emotional support ecosystem that's needed.
44:58.500 --> 44:58.740
[SPEAKER_00]: And the,
45:00.676 --> 45:17.003
[SPEAKER_00]: The, I was going to say that the, oh, yes, because there was this great story that happened in one of our events last week where we did this game where we asked people and send us there to like we it was called like the the hidden budget lines or something like that and you were to be secret agents and find like the hidden budget lines that nobody paid for.
45:17.403 --> 45:25.006
[SPEAKER_00]: And somebody wrote for my partner supporting me through all of the hard times in my, in my work like that's it's true.
45:25.166 --> 45:27.047
[SPEAKER_00]: We, we lean on others in our
45:28.187 --> 45:37.314
[SPEAKER_00]: to support us when we go and I also enter you do the same for hard parts in in our work and that's unpaid emotional labor as well.
45:37.674 --> 45:54.247
[SPEAKER_00]: I think at least I'm kind of going to take this as an opportunity to mention some of the tools as well of how we support the like and specifically in the feet of network but the feet of network is a network that borrows from the knowledge and practice of many other networks.
45:54.987 --> 46:20.629
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you kind of like the practices that we use to support one and other both in our team and also cross people across the with people across the network so that this emotional labor isn't something that we have to bury or hide so that we can allow it to be present all the time and I think that there's these are there's I think there's many of the things we could be doing but these are the ones that that we found well so one is like every space so like I said before there's always an embedded moment for connection building.
46:22.190 --> 46:40.834
[SPEAKER_00]: And because that's essential one is leaving quite a time space for people just to kind of like unwind and think and reflect also to reflect through like art and drawing we do a lot of storytelling even in our own team we don't do like retrospectors where we go look back and do like strategy reviews we do a monthly story, how to where we tell stories about.
46:41.194 --> 46:54.788
[SPEAKER_00]: things that we've experienced in our work to each other, which reveals an incredible amount of insight in a very short period of time, but it's also like it allows us to lift up things that are very emotional for us in a meaningful way.
46:58.532 --> 47:13.007
[SPEAKER_00]: It's deeply, and this is kind of serving the broader network, including people who meant, occasionally, or never show up for spaces that we, the network offers, we write in using a lot of words that are rooted in hope and dreaming and, and,
47:14.085 --> 47:42.836
[SPEAKER_00]: Also kind of enjoying but also pushing the narrative a bit and then one last thing I'll say is that the and also like failing failing is is something that being very honest and and humble about our own failures is something that I think also uplifts and helps a lot of people to be comfortable with their own and then in the final thing is like we just I just personally mean I just I just borrow a lot of games from my for my children so like I'm just constantly like grabbing my phone and writing down all this is a fun game I want to play this at work and so just lending that
47:43.136 --> 47:48.558
[SPEAKER_00]: that playfulness of parenthood with the playfulness that works, and what about you?
47:48.879 --> 47:54.041
[SPEAKER_02]: No, ah, ah, you took me to play games and games and what to add.
47:54.281 --> 47:59.543
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I think emotions is something so human that we have to press and
48:01.364 --> 48:06.206
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think every labor is emotional, it's just this kind of work.
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[SPEAKER_02]: It's like weaving in every connection, change your and transform you, and you are evolving all the time.
48:13.249 --> 48:27.495
[SPEAKER_02]: And the part of having that support, I don't know how many times my partner, my life partner, would say when you come back from this spaces, you don't enter in the door, I have to drop out because it's
48:28.215 --> 48:55.095
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so energetic and also it's like giving and taking and giving and taking it's like a wave so that's why I feel that it's emotions are so natural and it gave a much it can give us so much information here and when we're angry I love something I don't know when the anger drives you but when you feel it like I observe it with my twins and there
48:57.136 --> 49:17.228
[SPEAKER_02]: there is like it's our start to to cry the other start to cry so it's part of who we are and I believe we have in the western type of work we have a present so much and in networks being with others is so much appealing to to share it and to be parted
49:17.768 --> 49:25.654
[SPEAKER_02]: like to come alive is like practicing that it's normal and that it's part of who we are as as humans.
49:25.674 --> 49:31.398
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what I love, that kind of work to be in, to be in relationship.
49:31.578 --> 49:34.280
[SPEAKER_02]: And because I think this is our natural state.
49:34.961 --> 49:42.886
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me ask you something a bit off-script just because Brandon mentioned at the beginning that he's seen you cry in a cold with many
49:47.273 --> 49:59.038
[SPEAKER_01]: how is it, you know, an okay way to show up, emotional labor, for example, would be that you feel, ah, that you want to, you know, you're very angry and you want to express it, anger.
49:59.279 --> 50:08.583
[SPEAKER_01]: And a type of emotional labor would be that you still show up, you know, very put together and, you know, you're not angry, you understand the people that make
50:09.677 --> 50:10.277
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
50:10.638 --> 50:12.259
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, tell me something about that.
50:12.279 --> 50:16.983
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what is what is it's not what is okay But how do you relate to that?
50:17.463 --> 50:26.230
[SPEAKER_02]: I think well at least I think it's part of being older and it's very of being more mature and Don't make myself too serious and don't give too much shit
50:26.750 --> 50:36.301
[SPEAKER_02]: I think right now we need courageous voices, and a lot of the time there are things that I could pass, but there are things that we should know what it should pass.
50:36.562 --> 50:43.970
[SPEAKER_02]: And we, and there's always a good way to stand up and say, bullshit or excuse me, I have many examples.
50:44.211 --> 50:44.311
[SPEAKER_02]: And
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[SPEAKER_02]: It just, I go through almost, it feels like something is cooking in my belly or it needs to come out and it comes out with love with really with like I'll try to channel it in a way that it express and I'm not just biting my tongue because I think this courageous voice is something not because I'm so courageous but I think sometimes a lot of the passive passiveness of not pointing out or not not not not the part of not
51:14.331 --> 51:20.733
[SPEAKER_02]: being part is also a bigger part of what is where we are as there.
51:20.974 --> 51:29.897
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other is that when I feel I feel and then it comes out and I fit something that really, I'm not ashamed of my emotions.
51:30.157 --> 51:46.864
[SPEAKER_02]: I think when I moved to Germany, I also, I believe for a long time that it was not okay to be emotional and that would make me less valuable and less important and less professional until I oppressed it so much that I started to miss myself.
51:47.144 --> 51:52.266
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, about 15 years ago, I've decided I love myself and the way they are.
51:52.426 --> 51:54.287
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is where you get.
51:55.067 --> 52:03.110
[SPEAKER_02]: You get tears and laughter and emotions and being pissed off and sometimes come out fast.
52:03.250 --> 52:05.871
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's also a matter of me.
52:06.091 --> 52:11.633
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in the Vatican a couple in February and there was this guy with a book.
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[SPEAKER_02]: it was a movement of youth and I was invited there to see if I want to start working with them and they're using art and they're talking about emotions and these are old between 13 and 16 years old and then this guy said that you should never be angry to
52:32.465 --> 52:50.898
[SPEAKER_02]: to the skits like that's like he now he's an older very wise man and anger is like a no go and I got so pissed off because you know what like fuck it like no anger has drive me so many ways that doesn't mean so much information of something happening around me that
52:51.238 --> 52:53.201
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe in my brain, but you feel it.
52:53.561 --> 52:55.764
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe your brain is telling like, no, no, everything is good.
52:56.084 --> 52:57.125
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's this girl.
52:57.405 --> 52:58.607
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we all feel it.
52:59.248 --> 53:00.930
[SPEAKER_02]: So I couldn't handle it.
53:01.130 --> 53:03.773
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said, like, excuse me with very polite way.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Like, excuse me, I have to do.
53:05.975 --> 53:07.037
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's wrong.
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[SPEAKER_02]: I think I can say that my anger, I give me so beautiful fuel and information that has been so important and powerful in my life and has gave me paths that I love and embrace and I can look back and feel like oh thank you my anger.
53:23.743 --> 53:33.426
[SPEAKER_02]: So please don't say it to shut down the feelings to these teenagers and then after that I was a weird or maybe somebody told me he was like a super
53:33.806 --> 53:49.065
[SPEAKER_02]: President of the Delfa, but he at the end he had a cup of wine and we laughed about it and he said he brought him to think so it could go very wrong too and now but I call to more courageous sharing from the valley
53:49.345 --> 54:05.258
[SPEAKER_01]: Now yes, let's go, Katherine asked a while ago, so all of these, let's say, emotional variations, the rhythms, are these things that just happen or you sort of design and steward for them?
54:05.638 --> 54:06.399
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting question.
54:07.160 --> 54:13.305
[SPEAKER_00]: The disappointing answer is both, but I think some of them bubble up.
54:14.360 --> 54:40.683
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, um, I'm trying to remember that it was an event last year and there was a question that came through, um, and like, oh, I'm trying to remember the question of what, what exactly were the answer, but it was like, how do you kind of deal with, um, I think kind of like conflict and in team or something like that, um, in a healthy way, and my answer was kind of like preempting, um,
54:41.501 --> 54:58.591
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like not allowing it to get to the first one, I mean, I think is obviously going to be a healthy and beautiful thing is is not the way that centers us talking about anger, but the way that we kind of like create spaces for kind of the things that we're already feeling to come through.
54:59.376 --> 55:08.381
[SPEAKER_00]: And for us to feel confident in expressing them, allows us to deal with issues before they get too big or before they become too hidden and underlying.
55:08.401 --> 55:24.610
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think so in some ways, we need to be responsive of the energy of the micro and the macro, what's happening in the room that we're in right now and what's happening across the network or the network of networks or ecosystem,
55:26.190 --> 55:36.793
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, anger, for example, is a way that a lot of movements have really exploded, whether to bring people onto the street, that doesn't also sustain them often, then they just kind of implode.
55:36.833 --> 55:44.656
[SPEAKER_00]: And so how do you also harness that energy and that emotion in a way that kind of like keeps people connected and moving?
55:44.696 --> 55:48.917
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like, in short, it's like, I guess also with like narrative,
55:49.658 --> 56:05.212
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I also don't particularly like the way that it's being used today because it seems kind of like more like campaigning But I think the way that we do minds it's an idea is also responding to what people want and what people need and what works for people where people are at
56:05.492 --> 56:13.374
[SPEAKER_00]: but giving them the sense of an emotional message that really resonates with them, but it's like it's not marketing, it's responding.
56:13.574 --> 56:16.535
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's my first reaction, Sandra, what are you?
56:16.895 --> 56:17.795
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to move on further?
56:17.875 --> 56:22.536
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything brief to add, Sandra, I would like to give you another question to you.
56:22.816 --> 56:26.137
[SPEAKER_01]: So these one, just to one of you, so we cover a few.
56:26.357 --> 56:30.698
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you have specific practices to prevent emotional exhaustion?
56:31.018 --> 56:33.299
[SPEAKER_01]: Any tips for all of us, network people here,
56:35.539 --> 56:37.860
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, don't take yourself to serious.
56:38.040 --> 56:39.501
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't do everything yourself.
56:39.621 --> 56:44.564
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have to do like delegate not everything needs to be perfect.
56:44.764 --> 56:46.565
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, take some spaces.
56:46.665 --> 56:49.226
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know like find your rituals.
56:49.586 --> 56:52.447
[SPEAKER_02]: And maybe some silence space, but it depends on personality.
56:52.467 --> 56:54.308
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know random what would you like to add.
56:54.549 --> 56:55.829
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, everything.
56:55.849 --> 56:57.850
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything you said.
56:57.870 --> 57:01.412
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me sit down for a second and then come back to it.
57:01.933 --> 57:04.376
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a specific question in the chat.
57:04.436 --> 57:08.440
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't touched upon curiosity, anything that you want to say about that.
57:08.520 --> 57:09.942
[SPEAKER_01]: So we've talked about Creatorsness.
57:10.963 --> 57:11.764
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know,
57:13.113 --> 57:16.095
[SPEAKER_01]: How does curiosity show up in your encounters in St.
57:16.135 --> 57:17.996
[SPEAKER_01]: Tonya with big emotions?
57:18.276 --> 57:21.617
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think universities also are based on this work.
57:21.757 --> 57:24.739
[SPEAKER_02]: Curious about what you're observing with.
57:25.039 --> 57:36.165
[SPEAKER_02]: What every people part of this network is bringing as like cooking together or like a beautiful personality, the curiosity of understanding this person.
57:36.265 --> 57:40.367
[SPEAKER_02]: So I believe it's a big part of it to be curious all the time
57:42.688 --> 57:52.437
[SPEAKER_02]: I see it more as an admiring and like being in love, like when my kids walk and see for the first time and insects are like, oh my god, this is like that.
57:52.757 --> 57:56.821
[SPEAKER_02]: So it feels for me sometimes when I'm in networks and getting to know people.
57:56.881 --> 58:07.011
[SPEAKER_02]: So curiosity is or has been a great, great, I don't know emotion or a space that has because every person can surprise you, no matter who,
58:07.896 --> 58:09.179
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, Brendan.
58:09.500 --> 58:11.384
[SPEAKER_00]: So just to go back to the other question about.
58:12.606 --> 58:14.731
[SPEAKER_00]: I think just the short answer for me is this.
58:15.551 --> 58:16.872
[SPEAKER_00]: knowing that you're about as you can lean on.
58:16.972 --> 58:21.674
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't have, I'm usually kind of like always in this happy and joyful.
58:21.754 --> 58:25.656
[SPEAKER_00]: And but I had a moment of kind of like mini crisis when like our coordinating team last year.
58:25.676 --> 58:30.318
[SPEAKER_00]: And I realized that it was more linked to kind of like just childhood issues.
58:30.618 --> 58:35.220
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that I realized that is just kind of, it was just they got me very anxious.
58:35.280 --> 58:40.523
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was starting kind of like to be even like somewhat aggressive and with team members.
58:40.583 --> 58:43.284
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of my team members just wrote to me and just like just friend and you know,
58:44.144 --> 59:04.258
[SPEAKER_00]: You you need to know that like we love you deeply and everything that we're telling you right now So I'm at the place of deep love and I was able to call for an I call up somebody else and we talked for like You know, it took several hours of our time with just to talk to one another But then like the next day I felt perfectly fine and and also taught me a lot in that moment of things for myself that I hadn't even like deeply reflected on
59:05.058 --> 59:06.319
[SPEAKER_00]: going back like 30 years.
59:06.679 --> 59:17.164
[SPEAKER_00]: And so just having the people around you and I think also when you knew there's a team that coordinates in this kind of style, it trickles down across and across and within the network.
59:17.384 --> 59:20.766
[SPEAKER_00]: But having those, those people that you can kind of lean on is, is everything.
59:21.006 --> 59:37.720
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the curiosity question, I think, you know, it's sometimes we can get in these traps where we think that, you know, we have the right answer and it's especially when we have to like, front rays and everything it makes it harder to take it out of this trap, but I think just always doubting that you know what you know and always wanting to listen,
59:47.488 --> 59:57.150
[SPEAKER_00]: consider ourselves to have like formal collective decision-making process, we consider ourselves to have deep listening processes that help us respond and react to the broader network as well.
59:57.190 --> 01:00:08.493
[SPEAKER_00]: So just this process of like doubt in listening for me is how we remain constantly curious and whenever I find myself like, processizing too much, I'm like, I need to start itself out again.
01:00:08.813 --> 01:00:14.058
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that too, but in the early, that's a great place of living as I think.
01:00:14.098 --> 01:00:18.202
[SPEAKER_01]: I have many more questions, but we'll live here for a time in reasons.
01:00:18.582 --> 01:00:28.010
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like just a quick share in the chat if you folks listening, maybe outside, can still write a little sentence.
01:00:28.170 --> 01:00:29.471
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you take with you?
01:00:29.792 --> 01:00:30.673
[SPEAKER_01]: Or anyone, of course,
01:00:31.253 --> 01:00:34.214
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you are, what do you take with you?
01:00:34.374 --> 01:00:41.858
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to drop us the line in the chats and then in the meanwhile we can all go into gallery views that we see.
01:00:43.673 --> 01:00:46.296
[SPEAKER_01]: like we go away, if you folks can help me.
01:00:46.656 --> 01:00:49.059
[SPEAKER_01]: And, oops, here we go, there we go.
01:00:49.079 --> 01:00:51.802
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anyone wanting to share what do you take with you?
01:00:52.022 --> 01:00:54.845
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we'll rub up the session in just a moment.
01:00:55.005 --> 01:00:56.807
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever you're ready, just press exactly.
01:00:56.827 --> 01:00:57.748
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Juan Pablo.
01:00:57.909 --> 01:01:00.511
[SPEAKER_01]: The Universal sort of wisdom that might come from oceans.
01:01:00.551 --> 01:01:01.793
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you for that.
01:01:01.993 --> 01:01:05.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, appreciation to the speakers that it was for all and vulnerable.
01:01:06.843 --> 01:01:08.924
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for sharing your stories with us.
01:01:09.204 --> 01:01:12.324
[SPEAKER_01]: My anger is so beautiful, goes from Sandra.
01:01:12.484 --> 01:01:22.627
[SPEAKER_01]: I remind her for all of us, to speak more from the belly, tips from Sandra's silence and the affections, help from others, and the power of story sharing in life, making network skips.
01:01:22.987 --> 01:01:23.527
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
01:01:24.248 --> 01:01:24.688
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you all.
01:01:24.728 --> 01:01:25.308
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
01:01:25.428 --> 01:01:26.228
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
01:01:26.328 --> 01:01:28.369
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for your time.
01:01:28.649 --> 01:01:29.789
[SPEAKER_02]: And have fun.
01:01:30.049 --> 01:01:30.989
[SPEAKER_02]: Have fun.
01:01:31.109 --> 01:01:31.349
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
01:01:32.450 --> 01:01:33.690
[SPEAKER_02]: Listen to your guys and have fun.