ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today Greg Boyd is back on the show, and this time we tried something different.

Greg is a friend and cofounder of Vienna Waits with his wife Whitney, and if you've listened before you know our first conversation went to some deep, tearful places. This one uses a format I've been experimenting with: we each bring two topics, we don't share them ahead of time, we turn off the notifications, press record, and see what happens. It's vulnerable and a little terrifying, because I have no idea what someone's going to spring on me.

That's exactly why I love it.

We ended up covering songs that snap us back to another time and place, why men so often suck (and what we owe our kids as their fathers), the ugly, rarely-admitted feeling of not being happy when good things happen to people close to us, and Jim Collins' What to Make of a Life — the idea that you can only discover what you're built for through doing, never by being told.

What struck me most is how these unscripted conversations keep circling back to the same core themes without either of us planning it.

Please enjoy, Greg Boyd.

Key Takeaways

A song can be permanently rewired by a single powerful experience, not just repeated listening. Greg's decades-long association with the Tragically Hip's "Bobcaygeon" was rewritten in one night by a musical that reframed it as an immigrant falling in love with Canada.
On why men suck: separate nature from nurture. The nature side you can't control, but the nurture side often comes down to a lack of role models — men modelling the less-shitty behaviours we actually want our sons to carry forward.
The bar for being a "good dad" is embarrassingly low ("80% is just showing up"), while the bar for moms is far higher — the invisible load moms carry that dads simply aren't expected to. Worth naming, because pretending otherwise perpetuates it.
Greg's sharpest theory: men are as insecure as everyone else, but grow up in an environment where insecurity isn't allowed. Masking that insecurity with achievement is what produces a lot of "successful" men who still aren't good ones.
Own the good in your kids. When Bob credited his wife for his sons' kindness, Greg pushed back — deflecting all the credit to your partner perpetuates the exact "no good role models" problem. Claim that kindness came from you too.
The hard, honest one: sometimes we can't be happy for the people closest to us, and quietly feel better when things don't go their way. It's more common than anyone admits — and it's a signal, not a character flaw.
That jealousy fades when you're "in frame." Once you get clarity on what you're actually built for, other people's success stops threatening you, because you're finally in your own lane instead of eyeing theirs.
You can't think or plan your way to knowing what you're good at — you discover it through action. Which means being 55 and "stuck" doesn't mean you're limited; it means there are countless things you're gifted at that life just hasn't asked you to do yet.
An app that tells you what to do with your life misses the entire point. The messiness of the search is the value — being handed the answer at 20 would rob you of ever truly believing it.
Bob's answer to "what do you wish people said about you behind your back": he helps me see things in myself I didn't know were there, and he's a good dad. Greg's: he's kind. Both trace back to the same root — being someone whose work leaves good people in the world.

Connect with Bob Mathers

Website

Instagram

The Restless Leader Newsletter on Substack: https://bobmathers.substack.com/

Links & Resources

Vienna Waits - https://vienna-waits.com/

Vienna Waits on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/vienna_waits_studio/

Greg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gregboyd-vienna-waits/

Waypoint Retreat 2026: https://vienna-waits.com/retreat

Careers

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IN THIS EPISODE

Greg Boyd

Jim Collin

Bob Mather

Growth Mixtape

Bob Mathers

entrepreneurship

curiosity

Indie Podcast

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TRANSCRIPT 🔗

WEBVTT
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Speaker 0: It does come back to the insecurity piece.
00:00:02.720 --> 00:00:05.360
Speaker 0: It's something that I've never talked about.
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.360
Speaker 0: I could never how would I tell one of my friends that
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Speaker 0: something great has happened to them and that I'm actually not very happy for
00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:15.485
Speaker 0: them, that I'm a little happier when things don't go well.
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Speaker 0: Just seems like such a terrible
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Speaker 0: trait to have.
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Speaker 0: I agree.
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Speaker 0: It's much more common than anybody would talk about.
00:00:23.805 --> 00:00:27.260
Speaker 0: You and I, when we first met, we were sort of tech bros.
00:00:27.260 --> 00:00:30.780
Speaker 0: You left and got a a big job, and then I was a VP,
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Speaker 0: and then you were a VP, and we get together and have a beer.
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Speaker 0: I don't think either of us was happy for the other person ever.
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Speaker 1: Okay.
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Speaker 0: We're just sort of put on this, you know, facade of, hey.
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Speaker 0: Oh, it's real.
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Speaker 0: You're doing some great things, man.
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Speaker 0: It's so great.
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Speaker 0: And we're just like, fuck that guy.
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Speaker 1: Totally.
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Speaker 1: So I I am sure there were multiple occasions where people would ask me,
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Speaker 1: oh, do you hear Bob just got promoted to VP?
00:00:51.855 --> 00:00:54.375
Speaker 1: I'd be like, that guy is not a vice president.
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Speaker 1: That guy guy that is gonna go down in flames.
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Speaker 1: I I I'm sure that I said that behind your back.
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Speaker 0: Alright.
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Speaker 0: Welcome to the Growth Mixtape podcast, and I'm your host, Bob Mathers.
00:01:06.290 --> 00:01:08.685
Speaker 0: Today, I welcome back Greg Boyd to the show.
00:01:08.685 --> 00:01:12.285
Speaker 0: He first came on just over a year ago to share his emotional story
00:01:12.285 --> 00:01:16.285
Speaker 0: from becoming a bigwig exec to losing his wife suddenly during COVID,
00:01:16.845 --> 00:01:20.845
Speaker 0: finding love again, and founding Vienna Waits with his new wife, Whitney, who are
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Speaker 0: on a mission to help a million people live more intentional
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Speaker 0: lives.
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Speaker 0: That conversation had lots of tears.
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Speaker 0: So if you're into that kind of thing, go check it out.
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Speaker 0: Today's conversation is very different, more lighthearted, more spontaneous.
00:01:33.910 --> 00:01:36.715
Speaker 0: It's a new format I'm experimenting
00:01:36.715 --> 00:01:39.755
Speaker 0: with where I bring two topics, the guest brings two topics, and we don't
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Speaker 0: share them in advance.
00:01:40.555 --> 00:01:42.715
Speaker 0: We press record, and we see what happens.
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Speaker 0: And as you'll hear, it's a bit messy, but it's so real.
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Speaker 0: And in a world where everything is so polished, edited, and performative, there's
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Speaker 0: something refreshingly vulnerable and honest about these conversations.
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Speaker 0: It's real life.
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Speaker 0: You don't always say the perfect thing.
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Speaker 0: You don't always sound like the smartest person in the room.
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Speaker 0: You find comfort in awkward silences, and you talk about things you'd never
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Speaker 0: have talked about about otherwise.
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Speaker 0: And that's the point.
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Speaker 0: It's about authentic curiosity.
00:02:09.135 --> 00:02:12.735
Speaker 0: It's about connection, and we all need more of that.
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Speaker 0: What do we talk about?
00:02:13.935 --> 00:02:17.455
Speaker 0: The power of music to anchor us to places in time.
00:02:17.455 --> 00:02:21.210
Speaker 0: Why men suck and how we're trying to be better dads and doing your
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Speaker 0: best work in your fifties.
00:02:23.050 --> 00:02:26.810
Speaker 0: Oh, and we pretty much solve toxic masculinity.
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Speaker 0: Please enjoy Greg Boyd.
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Speaker 0: Welcome, Greg Boyd.
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Speaker 0: Back to the show.
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Speaker 0: Here we go.
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Speaker 1: It's good to be back.
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Speaker 1: As if it just took about a year, year and a half for for
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Speaker 1: me to weasel my way back on here, but I I appreciate I appreciate
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Speaker 1: the opportunity to come back on this, Bob.
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Speaker 0: It's funny you mentioned that.
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Speaker 0: I went back and listened to the our original episode where I had you
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Speaker 0: on.
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Speaker 0: If I asked you how long ago that was, what would you say?
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Speaker 1: I I do think I think it was spring of spring of twenty
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Speaker 1: five, which would put it at just over just over a year ago.
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Speaker 1: I think I think that's where we're at, about a year year and change.
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Speaker 1: I said a year and a half, but I like to exaggerate.
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Speaker 1: It's my
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Speaker 0: It's interesting you say that because if you had asked me, I'd say, oh,
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Speaker 0: that feels like two years ago.
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Speaker 1: Mhmm.
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Speaker 0: But it was it was released a year ago tomorrow.
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Speaker 0: Three hundred and sixty four days.
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Speaker 1: Oh, man.
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Speaker 1: Oh, well, Bob, that's almost poetic.
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Speaker 1: Here we are probably a year later.
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Speaker 0: I wonder why it feels longer.
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Speaker 0: I don't know.
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Speaker 0: But, anyway, that's interesting.
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Speaker 1: A lot of
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Speaker 0: Yeah.
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Speaker 0: I'm ex I'm excited about this because, you know, it's a format
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Speaker 0: that I'm experimenting with.
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Speaker 0: Whitney, your wife, was on, let's say, a month or so ago, and we
00:03:48.300 --> 00:03:51.500
Speaker 0: did one of these things where she brings two topics, I bring two topics.
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Speaker 0: We don't share them, and we just see what happens.
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Speaker 0: And I'm enjoying them more and more.
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Speaker 0: I get a little anxious about them because I have no idea what you're
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Speaker 0: gonna spring on me.
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Speaker 1: I know.
00:04:02.695 --> 00:04:06.695
Speaker 0: Which feels very scary and kind of vulnerable, and I appreciate that you
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Speaker 0: might feel some of that too.
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Speaker 0: So it just feels like
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Speaker 0: it could be magical.
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Speaker 0: It could be awkward as shit.
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Speaker 0: I mean, who knows?
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Speaker 1: Oh, man.
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Speaker 1: We are magic makers, Bob.
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Speaker 1: Let's let's be real.
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Speaker 1: We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna make it good.
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Speaker 1: I think yeah.
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Speaker 1: That I think I think that I think the episode the two of you
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Speaker 1: did together, for anyone who who tuned in, I think they should go back
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Speaker 1: and listen to that.
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Speaker 1: That'll be way it'll be way better than this one.
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Speaker 1: I'm I'm just trying to live up to that standard.
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Speaker 1: I think the two of you have some great chemistry, and I love the
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Speaker 1: format.
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Speaker 1: I think it's a good way to to change it up.
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Speaker 1: I think it brings a different kind of energy for you.
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Speaker 1: Makes it fun.
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Speaker 0: Yeah.
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Speaker 0: That's cool.
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Speaker 0: I I like it a lot too.
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Speaker 0: I'm really, really enjoying it.
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Speaker 0: So I just feel like I'm gonna keep doing them until I as Greg
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Speaker 0: Roon would say, the emotional charge is kind of drained out of it, and
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Speaker 0: then I'll think of something else.
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Speaker 1: I this wasn't a this wasn't a topic I had for you, but what
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Speaker 1: do you what do you what do you get out of it?
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Speaker 1: In the spirit of in the spirit of doing things that that energize
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Speaker 1: you, I mean, a podcast theoretically has some
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Speaker 1: intended value to it?
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Speaker 1: Not necessarily, like, a takeaway or but a, you know, a marketability
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Speaker 1: or a thing that maybe it's even just the entertainment.
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Speaker 1: Like, what is it that you hope people get from these episodes?
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Speaker 0: That is such a great question because I have no idea.
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Speaker 1: Nice.
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Speaker 0: I have no idea why anybody in the world would wanna listen to these
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Speaker 0: conversations except me and the person that recorded it and maybe the people in
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Speaker 0: our immediate circles.
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Speaker 0: And that is something that I've learned to just let go of.
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Speaker 0: Because the more I try to do something for other people, the the less
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Speaker 0: I enjoy it.
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Speaker 0: So I'm just really leaning into I'm loving these right now.
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Speaker 0: I I hope that people connect with something in
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Speaker 0: each of these episodes that they maybe take away, but I honestly
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Speaker 0: have no idea.
00:06:01.955 --> 00:06:05.870
Speaker 0: But I will tell you that so far, there are people that I've known
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Speaker 0: for a long time because I like I said, I think it does require
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Speaker 0: a little bit of kind of trust.
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Speaker 0: I can't imagine doing this with a stranger.
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Speaker 0: I have that seems even more terrifying.
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Speaker 0: But I
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Speaker 0: that conversation that Whitney and I had or that Alex and I had,
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Speaker 0: I don't think there are conversations that would ever happen
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Speaker 0: if we didn't just say, okay.
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Speaker 0: All I want you to do is give a little bit of forethought into
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Speaker 0: the couple of things you might wanna talk about.
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Speaker 0: Turn off all notifications, block out the outside world,
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Speaker 0: press record,
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Speaker 0: and see what happens.
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Speaker 0: And in every one so far,
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Speaker 0: we have come across things that I just can't imagine us ever talking about.
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Speaker 0: And they're not always deeply personal or just funny, but they're
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Speaker 0: really
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Speaker 0: I don't know.
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Speaker 0: There's a connection there.
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Speaker 0: And I just think if there's anything that other people might get
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Speaker 0: out of it, it's just that, oh, yeah.
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Speaker 0: This is what real conversations are supposed to feel like.
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Speaker 1: I like I like that.
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Speaker 1: I think that there I think that there is that ties to your deep
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Speaker 1: rooted passion for curiosity.
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Speaker 1: So I think it it totally met.
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Speaker 1: It totally fits.
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Speaker 0: It makes sense.
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Speaker 0: Now it's just a matter of time before one of these things goes horribly
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Speaker 0: wrong.
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Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
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Speaker 1: I've got I've got questions about race and religion.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I want I'm gonna get all your political opinions on the record.
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Speaker 1: This is the one, Bob.
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Speaker 1: This is where it goes this is where it goes completely sideways, and you
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Speaker 1: get canceled.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Let's cancel let's cancel Bob, everybody.
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Speaker 0: Well so before we pressed record, you asked who goes first.
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Speaker 0: It's interesting.
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Speaker 0: I was thinking about that.
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Speaker 0: I guess I've always gone first because I thought that would make the guest
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Speaker 0: feel more at ease.
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Speaker 0: But as I think about it, I'm like, no.
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Speaker 0: Maybe that would be more stressful.
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Speaker 0: So I'll I'll just leave it to you.
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Speaker 0: Do you wanna would you rather ask a question, or would you rather be
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Speaker 0: asked
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Speaker 1: to get started?
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Speaker 1: I I asked you kind of it was kinda like
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Speaker 1: thinking that you would have the answer.
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Speaker 1: I didn't have
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Speaker 1: a bit apprehensive.
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Speaker 1: How about how about this?
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Speaker 1: I I do have I I came prepared with some topics, but I've been
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Speaker 1: very curious about what you're gonna bring.
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Speaker 1: And so Yeah.
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Speaker 1: How about this?
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Speaker 1: Why don't why don't you go first?
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And then I'll see if I can I hope that that that'll help to
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Speaker 1: inform which one I go to in my list?
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Speaker 1: How about that?
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Speaker 0: Yeah.
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Speaker 0: For sure.
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Speaker 0: It's I've really struggled with this.
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Speaker 0: I have, I swear, like, ten of them on my list here.
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Speaker 0: Right.
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Speaker 0: But I just wanted to start with sort of a fun and easy one.
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Speaker 0: So we have always
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Speaker 0: bonded over music, and I wonder if there's
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Speaker 0: a song
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Speaker 0: that throws you back to another time and place.
00:08:54.030 --> 00:08:57.310
Speaker 0: And no matter how many times you listen to it, when you listen to
00:08:57.310 --> 00:09:01.310
Speaker 0: it, like, you can smell where you were when you when that
00:09:01.310 --> 00:09:03.950
Speaker 0: song first connected to it.
00:09:03.950 --> 00:09:06.015
Speaker 0: And
00:09:06.015 --> 00:09:09.215
Speaker 0: and when we just start there, what are the songs that are sort of
00:09:09.215 --> 00:09:13.215
Speaker 0: deeply rooted connected to different parts of your life that if you want to,
00:09:13.535 --> 00:09:16.655
Speaker 0: you can go back and be transported to those places?
00:09:16.655 --> 00:09:18.335
Speaker 0: Or maybe there are songs you're like, yeah.
00:09:18.335 --> 00:09:22.130
Speaker 0: I do not wanna listen to that song maybe ever again or just not
00:09:22.130 --> 00:09:23.410
Speaker 0: today.
00:09:23.410 --> 00:09:26.850
Speaker 1: Well, I love so great spot to start.
00:09:26.850 --> 00:09:30.130
Speaker 1: And for anyone who did listen to our first episode, and then they were
00:09:30.130 --> 00:09:31.090
Speaker 1: like, great.
00:09:31.090 --> 00:09:35.090
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a weepy second episode with Greg Boyd and the growth growth
00:09:35.345 --> 00:09:36.225
Speaker 1: mixtape.
00:09:36.225 --> 00:09:36.545
Speaker 1: No.
00:09:36.545 --> 00:09:37.825
Speaker 1: I think this is a good place to start.
00:09:37.825 --> 00:09:39.425
Speaker 1: So
00:09:39.425 --> 00:09:42.465
Speaker 1: as you're asking, I immediately
00:09:42.465 --> 00:09:46.080
Speaker 1: snapped right back to,
00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:48.400
Speaker 1: one to one specific song.
00:09:48.400 --> 00:09:52.320
Speaker 1: And now, because I'm sharing this, I have to at least we're gonna get
00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.000
Speaker 1: twenty listens from all my family members, who are gonna Alright.
00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:59.040
Speaker 1: Who are gonna wanna hear hear Greg talk about this.
00:09:59.040 --> 00:10:03.040
Speaker 1: So when I was a when I was a kid, we went so my
00:10:03.915 --> 00:10:05.035
Speaker 1: my my parents are together.
00:10:05.035 --> 00:10:08.155
Speaker 1: So we got my mom and her side and a very close family and
00:10:08.155 --> 00:10:09.035
Speaker 1: my dad and his side.
00:10:09.035 --> 00:10:13.035
Speaker 1: And my mom's side, we would go to, a place on Georgian
00:10:13.355 --> 00:10:14.780
Speaker 1: Bay, Balm Beach.
00:10:14.780 --> 00:10:16.540
Speaker 1: And my grandfather would rent a cottage.
00:10:16.540 --> 00:10:18.220
Speaker 1: My grandparents would rent a cottage there.
00:10:18.220 --> 00:10:19.740
Speaker 1: We were always on the beach.
00:10:19.740 --> 00:10:23.740
Speaker 1: And we would I mean, it knows
00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:24.620
Speaker 1: Spotify.
00:10:24.620 --> 00:10:27.020
Speaker 1: I think I don't even know if there's a CD player.
00:10:27.020 --> 00:10:29.405
Speaker 1: So it's like a record player, maybe a tape.
00:10:29.405 --> 00:10:29.605
Speaker 1: Right?
00:10:29.565 --> 00:10:32.765
Speaker 1: It was, like, the only real music we had was the radio and whatever
00:10:32.765 --> 00:10:35.485
Speaker 1: tapes happened to be at this rented cottage.
00:10:35.485 --> 00:10:39.485
Speaker 1: And this is where my love for Billy Joel came from is
00:10:39.645 --> 00:10:43.645
Speaker 1: the song Piano Man was was one we would listen to almost every
00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:45.600
Speaker 1: night, at least my memory is.
00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.600
Speaker 1: Us as cousins sitting on the couch listening to Billy Joel,
00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:54.000
Speaker 1: Piano Man, and my cousin and uncles, you know
00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:58.000
Speaker 1: you know, just singing the lyrics, and the microphone smelled
00:10:58.325 --> 00:10:59.205
Speaker 1: like a beer.
00:10:59.205 --> 00:10:59.525
Speaker 1: Right?
00:10:59.525 --> 00:11:00.725
Speaker 1: Like, with such passion.
00:11:00.725 --> 00:11:03.205
Speaker 1: And then that just anchored it in my mind.
00:11:03.205 --> 00:11:07.205
Speaker 1: So no matter where I am, because I play and listen to that song
00:11:07.870 --> 00:11:10.590
Speaker 1: by the campfire myself and and we listen to it.
00:11:10.590 --> 00:11:13.470
Speaker 1: It's one of just one of my all time favorite songs that led to
00:11:13.470 --> 00:11:17.470
Speaker 1: the love of the song Vienna and now Vienna Waits that we named our
00:11:17.470 --> 00:11:20.205
Speaker 1: business after, all thanks to Billy Joel.
00:11:20.205 --> 00:11:20.845
Speaker 1: That is a song.
00:11:20.845 --> 00:11:24.365
Speaker 1: So when you're asking that question, that's the one that snaps me right back.
00:11:24.365 --> 00:11:26.285
Speaker 1: It's not it's not even a good memory.
00:11:26.285 --> 00:11:30.285
Speaker 1: It's not a it's just a core memory and takes me back to that
00:11:30.285 --> 00:11:34.285
Speaker 1: green cottage in Palm Beach, Ontario.
00:11:34.285 --> 00:11:38.285
Speaker 1: Just Midland, Palm Beach,
00:11:39.010 --> 00:11:41.410
Speaker 1: cousins, family, fun.
00:11:41.410 --> 00:11:42.130
Speaker 1: That is the one.
00:11:42.130 --> 00:11:46.130
Speaker 1: But I wanna give you one other one because
00:11:46.610 --> 00:11:49.865
Speaker 1: when you're asking the question, I think I'm gonna throw this back to you
00:11:49.865 --> 00:11:51.545
Speaker 1: because I'd like to hear your answer.
00:11:51.545 --> 00:11:55.545
Speaker 1: And then my head went in a slightly different direction because that's
00:11:55.705 --> 00:11:58.185
Speaker 1: a core memory that hasn't been changed.
00:11:58.185 --> 00:12:02.185
Speaker 1: But I have one now that is a core memory that has been changed.
00:12:02.540 --> 00:12:06.540
Speaker 1: So, the song Bob Kajun by the Tragically Hip is, you know, you
00:12:06.540 --> 00:12:08.220
Speaker 1: and I both love that song.
00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:12.220
Speaker 1: I've listened to that song for years and it can take me back to
00:12:12.380 --> 00:12:13.660
Speaker 1: all kinds of different places.
00:12:13.660 --> 00:12:17.660
Speaker 1: Camps and cottage and canoes and working the back
00:12:17.755 --> 00:12:20.795
Speaker 1: shop of my dad's bike store when I was a kid because we would
00:12:20.795 --> 00:12:22.475
Speaker 1: always listen to the hip.
00:12:22.475 --> 00:12:26.475
Speaker 1: But that song just got reframed for me
00:12:26.555 --> 00:12:27.755
Speaker 1: just a few weeks ago.
00:12:27.755 --> 00:12:31.650
Speaker 1: So, the now when I listen to Bob Cajun, all of that is gone.
00:12:31.650 --> 00:12:33.890
Speaker 1: The context is completely changed.
00:12:33.890 --> 00:12:36.530
Speaker 1: Because Whitney and I went to a show, It's a Good Life If You
00:12:36.530 --> 00:12:37.250
Speaker 1: Don't Weaken.
00:12:37.250 --> 00:12:38.370
Speaker 1: It's the name of the song.
00:12:38.370 --> 00:12:41.410
Speaker 1: Name of one of my favorite and, I'm sure, one of your favorite Tragically
00:12:41.410 --> 00:12:43.035
Speaker 1: Hip songs.
00:12:43.035 --> 00:12:46.235
Speaker 1: Jake Gold, who you had on your podcast, who I now need to talk
00:12:46.235 --> 00:12:50.235
Speaker 1: to, commissioned the creation of this musical,
00:12:50.235 --> 00:12:52.555
Speaker 1: which is the music of the Tragically Hip.
00:12:52.555 --> 00:12:56.530
Speaker 1: And it's set The story is set to
00:12:56.530 --> 00:12:58.850
Speaker 1: a immigrant Canadian story.
00:12:58.850 --> 00:13:02.850
Speaker 1: And there's this moment in the show where the main character, Waleed,
00:13:03.250 --> 00:13:05.410
Speaker 1: who's exiled from Iraq.
00:13:05.410 --> 00:13:08.930
Speaker 1: He's made his home in Canada where he fell in love with he falls
00:13:08.930 --> 00:13:12.930
Speaker 1: in love with a girl and he falls in love with Canada in Bobcaygeon.
00:13:13.605 --> 00:13:17.605
Speaker 1: He sings Bobcaygeon as an immigrant in the show with
00:13:17.845 --> 00:13:21.845
Speaker 1: the music in the background and it transformed the song for me
00:13:22.085 --> 00:13:26.085
Speaker 1: from campfire, bros, Beers, Molson
00:13:26.410 --> 00:13:30.410
Speaker 1: Canadian, to a song about falling in love
00:13:30.410 --> 00:13:32.490
Speaker 1: with Canada
00:13:32.490 --> 00:13:34.330
Speaker 1: for somebody coming from another place.
00:13:34.330 --> 00:13:37.850
Speaker 1: Now when I hear Bob Kajun for the past month and a half since
00:13:37.850 --> 00:13:41.785
Speaker 1: we went to the show, all I can think about is Waleed and the
00:13:41.785 --> 00:13:44.985
Speaker 1: writer of the show or one of the writers of the show, Ahmed, who
00:13:44.985 --> 00:13:48.825
Speaker 1: we had on our podcast a little while ago, who he himself fell in
00:13:48.825 --> 00:13:52.345
Speaker 1: love with Canada visiting Bob Kachen.
00:13:52.345 --> 00:13:54.200
Speaker 1: So I'll throw it back to you, Bob.
00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:55.240
Speaker 1: Those are mine.
00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:59.240
Speaker 1: Piano man takes me back to a place, and then Bob Kajun was one
00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:03.080
Speaker 1: that's always been a core memory, but it's totally been transformed.
00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:06.675
Speaker 1: And I wonder if that's happened for you.
00:14:06.675 --> 00:14:06.995
Speaker 0: Yes.
00:14:06.995 --> 00:14:07.555
Speaker 0: It has.
00:14:07.555 --> 00:14:10.195
Speaker 0: Before I get there
00:14:10.195 --> 00:14:12.275
Speaker 1: And you have to go to that show, by the way.
00:14:12.275 --> 00:14:12.835
Speaker 0: I know.
00:14:12.835 --> 00:14:14.115
Speaker 0: Well You you
00:14:14.115 --> 00:14:15.715
Speaker 1: I insist you must go.
00:14:15.715 --> 00:14:18.995
Speaker 1: And if if if not you, Woody and I will take you they're doing
00:14:18.995 --> 00:14:21.110
Speaker 1: a show in Kingston, Ontario.
00:14:21.110 --> 00:14:23.590
Speaker 1: This show is gonna be doing a run there in October.
00:14:23.590 --> 00:14:27.590
Speaker 1: We're almost definitely gonna go either to Kingston or Ottawa.
00:14:28.310 --> 00:14:32.310
Speaker 0: Because it's the tenth anniversary, I think, of the hip slash show in Kingston
00:14:32.390 --> 00:14:33.590
Speaker 0: right around now.
00:14:33.590 --> 00:14:34.630
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah.
00:14:34.630 --> 00:14:34.955
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:34.955 --> 00:14:35.155
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:35.035 --> 00:14:35.355
Speaker 1: That's right.
00:14:35.355 --> 00:14:38.235
Speaker 0: I think it's part of the celebrations that they're having.
00:14:38.235 --> 00:14:38.795
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:14:38.795 --> 00:14:39.755
Speaker 1: It's part of that.
00:14:39.755 --> 00:14:41.195
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:14:41.195 --> 00:14:45.195
Speaker 0: It's interesting you say that because I've I think about the the way that
00:14:45.275 --> 00:14:49.275
Speaker 0: songs can anchor themselves to a point in our lives, And I've always thought
00:14:49.300 --> 00:14:53.300
Speaker 0: that if you can ever rewrite it, it would take repeated listens
00:14:53.700 --> 00:14:56.580
Speaker 0: to kind of rewire that association.
00:14:56.580 --> 00:14:59.380
Speaker 0: I'd never thought that you could have one moment that is so impactful that
00:14:59.380 --> 00:15:02.595
Speaker 0: it
00:15:02.595 --> 00:15:06.595
Speaker 0: completely changes what that song means, like, forever.
00:15:06.595 --> 00:15:06.995
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:15:06.995 --> 00:15:08.195
Speaker 1: I That's amazing.
00:15:08.195 --> 00:15:09.635
Speaker 1: It seems to be the case for me.
00:15:09.635 --> 00:15:12.275
Speaker 1: This this song is forever changed Yeah.
00:15:12.275 --> 00:15:12.595
Speaker 1: For me.
00:15:12.595 --> 00:15:13.235
Speaker 1: Bob Kitchin.
00:15:13.235 --> 00:15:14.010
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:15:14.010 --> 00:15:18.010
Speaker 0: The song that immediately comes to mind is Running to Stand Still
00:15:18.810 --> 00:15:20.090
Speaker 0: by U2.
00:15:20.090 --> 00:15:23.850
Speaker 0: I was deeply in a U2 stage back when I was in high school,
00:15:23.850 --> 00:15:27.210
Speaker 0: and I worked at a Kentucky fried chicken that was about a kilometer and
00:15:27.210 --> 00:15:29.135
Speaker 0: a half from my house.
00:15:29.135 --> 00:15:30.815
Speaker 0: And I would walk there.
00:15:30.815 --> 00:15:34.815
Speaker 0: And I remember walking in, like, blinding snowstorms with my Walkman
00:15:35.135 --> 00:15:36.495
Speaker 0: on
00:15:36.495 --> 00:15:37.055
Speaker 1: Walkman.
00:15:37.055 --> 00:15:39.615
Speaker 0: With a tape of,
00:15:39.615 --> 00:15:42.815
Speaker 0: what is that album?
00:15:42.815 --> 00:15:44.790
Speaker 0: Running to Stand Still.
00:15:44.790 --> 00:15:46.630
Speaker 0: Anyway,
00:15:46.630 --> 00:15:48.710
Speaker 0: I remember walking
00:15:48.710 --> 00:15:52.710
Speaker 0: and just listening to the that album over and over and
00:15:52.710 --> 00:15:53.750
Speaker 0: over again.
00:15:53.750 --> 00:15:57.510
Speaker 0: And then when I had kids, we would be at the cottage, and we
00:15:57.510 --> 00:15:59.965
Speaker 0: would take turns having to put them to sleep.
00:15:59.965 --> 00:16:02.685
Speaker 0: And
00:16:02.685 --> 00:16:06.685
Speaker 0: that song is the song that I would sing to my kids and
00:16:06.685 --> 00:16:10.445
Speaker 0: my niece and nephew as we're they're crowded into this little room in the
00:16:10.445 --> 00:16:12.125
Speaker 0: cottage, and I'm trying to get them to sleep.
00:16:12.125 --> 00:16:14.045
Speaker 0: Everybody else is still partying up by the camper.
00:16:14.045 --> 00:16:15.430
Speaker 0: I'm like, kids, time to go to sleep.
00:16:15.430 --> 00:16:17.190
Speaker 0: Settle the fuck down.
00:16:17.190 --> 00:16:17.590
Speaker 0: You know?
00:16:17.590 --> 00:16:20.310
Speaker 0: Daddy's gonna sing you a song, and I would just sing that song over
00:16:20.310 --> 00:16:21.270
Speaker 0: and over and over again.
00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:25.270
Speaker 0: And now I can't listen to that song without just thinking about,
00:16:25.270 --> 00:16:27.670
Speaker 0: you know, the kids being small and singing them to sleep.
00:16:27.670 --> 00:16:31.670
Speaker 0: So a similar definitely a similar thing to you, but it took
00:16:31.705 --> 00:16:35.705
Speaker 0: repeated repeated repeated singing in that new context
00:16:35.865 --> 00:16:37.145
Speaker 0: to change it.
00:16:37.145 --> 00:16:39.545
Speaker 1: That's, and the song's from Joshua Tree.
00:16:39.545 --> 00:16:39.865
Speaker 0: Yep.
00:16:39.865 --> 00:16:40.585
Speaker 0: That's right.
00:16:40.585 --> 00:16:43.440
Speaker 1: But the, great album too.
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:45.600
Speaker 1: But the that's interesting.
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:49.600
Speaker 1: So for you, it's repeated exposure changed it.
00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:53.760
Speaker 1: Whereas for me, I think it's just how profound is the experience.
00:16:53.760 --> 00:16:54.880
Speaker 1: I was yeah.
00:16:54.880 --> 00:16:58.880
Speaker 1: I was moved to tears from the one just the the mind
00:16:59.055 --> 00:17:03.055
Speaker 1: blowing context shift of a song and the
00:17:03.135 --> 00:17:07.135
Speaker 1: beauty that they created in the like, it was, like, back to me.
00:17:07.375 --> 00:17:09.775
Speaker 1: So it's probably the intensity of the experience too.
00:17:09.775 --> 00:17:13.775
Speaker 1: There's no real positive memory that comes from
00:17:14.010 --> 00:17:17.130
Speaker 1: putting your kids to sleep one time, I would say.
00:17:17.130 --> 00:17:19.530
Speaker 1: Because sometimes it's great and sometimes it's bad.
00:17:19.530 --> 00:17:22.250
Speaker 1: Maybe they look up at you and say something and then bang, you know,
00:17:22.250 --> 00:17:22.810
Speaker 1: it hits.
00:17:22.810 --> 00:17:23.130
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:23.330
Speaker 0: I
00:17:23.290 --> 00:17:24.570
Speaker 1: would agree with that.
00:17:24.570 --> 00:17:25.290
Speaker 1: That's beautiful.
00:17:25.290 --> 00:17:29.265
Speaker 0: It's before we leave that, it's funny,
00:17:29.265 --> 00:17:32.065
Speaker 0: that you
00:17:32.065 --> 00:17:36.065
Speaker 0: mention kind of music, and playlist because
00:17:36.305 --> 00:17:40.065
Speaker 0: you and Whitney created a playlist called the Vienna Waits playlist that I still
00:17:40.065 --> 00:17:41.540
Speaker 0: listen to often.
00:17:41.540 --> 00:17:42.660
Speaker 0: Every once in a while, I'll text you.
00:17:42.660 --> 00:17:43.460
Speaker 0: I'm like, oh my god.
00:17:43.460 --> 00:17:44.420
Speaker 0: I listened to this song.
00:17:44.420 --> 00:17:46.740
Speaker 0: It made me cry on my bike ride, etcetera.
00:17:46.740 --> 00:17:49.860
Speaker 0: But I what I like most about that is that I every time I
00:17:49.860 --> 00:17:52.820
Speaker 0: listen, I'm like, is this a Whitney song or a Greg song?
00:17:52.820 --> 00:17:56.820
Speaker 0: And you can actually tell on Spotify, assuming that you didn't come up
00:17:56.965 --> 00:17:59.445
Speaker 0: with a list and then grit Whitney just uploaded them all.
00:17:59.445 --> 00:18:02.965
Speaker 0: You can say it shows Greg Whitney Greg Whitney.
00:18:02.965 --> 00:18:03.525
Speaker 1: Yep.
00:18:03.525 --> 00:18:05.205
Speaker 0: But it you can also sort.
00:18:05.205 --> 00:18:07.285
Speaker 0: I was really interested.
00:18:07.285 --> 00:18:11.260
Speaker 0: You can sort by recently added, which is the the order that you would
00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:11.820
Speaker 0: have put them in.
00:18:11.820 --> 00:18:15.820
Speaker 0: And I was wondering when they decided to create a playlist, what is the
00:18:15.820 --> 00:18:19.500
Speaker 0: what is the first song they both knew would have to go on it?
00:18:19.500 --> 00:18:22.380
Speaker 0: Now in your case, it's pretty easy.
00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:25.055
Speaker 0: Vienna is the number is the first song on there.
00:18:25.055 --> 00:18:28.415
Speaker 0: But Piano Man, I think, is, like, one of the next it's in the
00:18:28.415 --> 00:18:29.295
Speaker 0: top five.
00:18:29.295 --> 00:18:31.855
Speaker 0: It's a good life if you don't weaken, which you mentioned is in the
00:18:31.855 --> 00:18:32.735
Speaker 0: top five.
00:18:32.735 --> 00:18:32.975
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:18:32.975 --> 00:18:34.575
Speaker 0: So it's actually really hilarious.
00:18:34.575 --> 00:18:38.015
Speaker 0: And now you might not have noticed, it's a good life is actually on
00:18:38.015 --> 00:18:40.770
Speaker 0: there twice because Whitney has added
00:18:40.770 --> 00:18:41.010
Speaker 1: it.
00:18:41.010 --> 00:18:41.730
Speaker 1: It should be.
00:18:41.730 --> 00:18:42.130
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:18:42.130 --> 00:18:44.450
Speaker 0: Because it's been so long that she's added it.
00:18:44.450 --> 00:18:48.450
Speaker 0: She's added it again probably in response to that play that you saw.
00:18:48.530 --> 00:18:48.850
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:18:48.850 --> 00:18:49.170
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:18:49.170 --> 00:18:49.970
Speaker 1: That's probably right.
00:18:49.970 --> 00:18:52.995
Speaker 1: And we actually went through a period of time,
00:18:52.995 --> 00:18:56.995
Speaker 1: you you might recall in the program where we we would have people
00:18:57.395 --> 00:19:00.355
Speaker 1: share their favorite song, and we would add people's favorite songs to it.
00:19:00.355 --> 00:19:04.355
Speaker 1: So that also meant that we got other people's
00:19:04.675 --> 00:19:07.395
Speaker 1: additions onto the list, which is kind of kind of a cool feature of
00:19:07.395 --> 00:19:08.900
Speaker 1: that too.
00:19:08.900 --> 00:19:09.100
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:19:09.060 --> 00:19:10.820
Speaker 0: Well, it's a mix tape.
00:19:10.820 --> 00:19:11.380
Speaker 1: It's a mix tape.
00:19:11.380 --> 00:19:12.020
Speaker 1: So there you go.
00:19:12.020 --> 00:19:12.420
Speaker 1: There you go.
00:19:12.420 --> 00:19:12.620
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:19:12.580 --> 00:19:14.260
Speaker 1: I think you might need to do one of those, Bob.
00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:17.540
Speaker 1: We I would love to I'd love to tune into a a growth mix
00:19:17.540 --> 00:19:20.100
Speaker 1: tape mix tape playlist.
00:19:20.100 --> 00:19:21.460
Speaker 1: That'd be kinda meta.
00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:24.565
Speaker 0: How fucked up is it that that's never occurred to me
00:19:24.565 --> 00:19:25.045
Speaker 1: Hey.
00:19:25.045 --> 00:19:25.685
Speaker 0: Until now.
00:19:25.685 --> 00:19:27.525
Speaker 0: That is a freaking awesome idea.
00:19:27.525 --> 00:19:30.325
Speaker 1: I'm starting to get a better sense for really why you do this.
00:19:30.325 --> 00:19:31.765
Speaker 1: It's a brainstorming session.
00:19:31.765 --> 00:19:32.565
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:19:32.565 --> 00:19:33.365
Speaker 1: You've taken it.
00:19:33.365 --> 00:19:33.925
Speaker 1: Yes.
00:19:33.925 --> 00:19:36.885
Speaker 1: You get you get clever people on here that can give give an idea
00:19:36.885 --> 00:19:37.085
Speaker 1: too.
00:19:37.045 --> 00:19:38.485
Speaker 1: So I I think we're done here.
00:19:38.485 --> 00:19:40.860
Speaker 1: I think that's the most value I can bring is
00:19:40.860 --> 00:19:41.740
Speaker 0: I love it.
00:19:41.740 --> 00:19:41.940
Speaker 1: I
00:19:41.900 --> 00:19:42.140
Speaker 0: love it.
00:19:42.140 --> 00:19:45.020
Speaker 0: And you it's funny when you I had you you're right.
00:19:45.020 --> 00:19:49.020
Speaker 0: We our verse our first, conversation was very powerful telling your
00:19:49.100 --> 00:19:49.500
Speaker 0: story.
00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:50.860
Speaker 0: There's a lot of tears.
00:19:50.860 --> 00:19:54.380
Speaker 0: I was like, this first question that I asked, Greg, feels like it's gonna
00:19:54.380 --> 00:19:54.860
Speaker 0: set the tone.
00:19:54.860 --> 00:19:55.820
Speaker 0: Are we going back there?
00:19:55.820 --> 00:19:58.515
Speaker 0: Is this gonna be we're gonna be sobbing through the next forty five minutes,
00:19:58.515 --> 00:20:01.475
Speaker 0: or are you gonna try to lighten things up a bit?
00:20:01.475 --> 00:20:04.515
Speaker 0: So I I had other things on here that easily could have taken us
00:20:04.515 --> 00:20:05.715
Speaker 0: right back to where we started.
00:20:05.715 --> 00:20:06.435
Speaker 1: Hey.
00:20:06.435 --> 00:20:07.315
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here for it.
00:20:07.315 --> 00:20:09.075
Speaker 1: I'm I'm here to go whatever whatever direction.
00:20:09.075 --> 00:20:10.115
Speaker 1: It's a beautiful day outside.
00:20:10.115 --> 00:20:13.930
Speaker 1: We can go for a walk after, just to to regroup.
00:20:13.930 --> 00:20:14.490
Speaker 1: How about this?
00:20:14.490 --> 00:20:17.610
Speaker 1: I'll I'll take I'll take over here, and I'll hit you with one.
00:20:17.610 --> 00:20:20.650
Speaker 1: And this is the first question
00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:24.650
Speaker 1: that I as soon as we as soon as we were talking about
00:20:24.905 --> 00:20:28.905
Speaker 1: about this, I was I wanted to ask, I wanted to ask this question.
00:20:28.985 --> 00:20:32.985
Speaker 1: And so, I'm gonna give a bit of context to the question too.
00:20:33.705 --> 00:20:37.225
Speaker 1: People who listen to your your podcast would know you've you're the father of
00:20:37.225 --> 00:20:39.050
Speaker 1: two sons.
00:20:39.050 --> 00:20:40.970
Speaker 1: They're, I think they're both in their twenties now.
00:20:40.970 --> 00:20:41.210
Speaker 1: Right?
00:20:41.210 --> 00:20:42.410
Speaker 1: They're both going to their.
00:20:42.410 --> 00:20:42.730
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:20:42.730 --> 00:20:44.330
Speaker 1: So, okay.
00:20:44.330 --> 00:20:45.850
Speaker 1: So, Bob, here's the question for you.
00:20:45.850 --> 00:20:47.450
Speaker 1: I want your opinion on this.
00:20:47.450 --> 00:20:47.770
Speaker 1: Right?
00:20:47.770 --> 00:20:49.530
Speaker 1: This is this is your explain.
00:20:49.530 --> 00:20:53.395
Speaker 1: Why do men in general suck?
00:20:53.395 --> 00:20:55.555
Speaker 1: And I wanna be a little bit more specific here.
00:20:55.555 --> 00:20:58.595
Speaker 1: And what I'm because, like, women suck too.
00:20:58.595 --> 00:21:02.595
Speaker 1: But I mean, when you hear about in the news, car
00:21:02.675 --> 00:21:06.675
Speaker 1: drives into group of people, or
00:21:06.820 --> 00:21:10.260
Speaker 1: terrible thing happens in this place.
00:21:10.260 --> 00:21:14.260
Speaker 1: Do you what do we default think is the gender of that
00:21:15.060 --> 00:21:17.300
Speaker 1: person who did this just shitty thing.
00:21:17.300 --> 00:21:17.620
Speaker 1: Right?
00:21:17.620 --> 00:21:20.340
Speaker 1: It's like and and we're almost always right in that.
00:21:20.340 --> 00:21:24.340
Speaker 1: And it's like this idea of that and then in small ways too,
00:21:24.995 --> 00:21:28.995
Speaker 1: that I think dudes often, and in many ways, just suck.
00:21:29.235 --> 00:21:33.235
Speaker 1: So as the dad of two young men for you, and then I'm
00:21:33.395 --> 00:21:37.395
Speaker 1: the father of of three young men.
00:21:38.470 --> 00:21:42.390
Speaker 1: Like, I get to parent these these guys and
00:21:42.390 --> 00:21:43.830
Speaker 1: try to make them not suck.
00:21:43.830 --> 00:21:46.310
Speaker 1: But I I think men in general do.
00:21:46.310 --> 00:21:50.230
Speaker 1: So why do you, Bob, why do you think men in general suck?
00:21:50.230 --> 00:21:52.775
Speaker 1: And this isn't a beat up on white guys moment.
00:21:52.775 --> 00:21:56.775
Speaker 1: This is, like, let's acknowledge that when you hear
00:21:56.775 --> 00:22:00.775
Speaker 1: about a bad thing, it's usually just a just a
00:22:00.935 --> 00:22:03.220
Speaker 1: bad decision that's been made by by a dude.
00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:03.940
Speaker 1: So hit me.
00:22:03.940 --> 00:22:07.940
Speaker 1: That was the question I wanna hit you with.
00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:09.380
Speaker 0: What yeah.
00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:13.380
Speaker 0: I mean, I guess the question that immediately comes up is,
00:22:15.265 --> 00:22:19.265
Speaker 0: are we just hardwired to suck,
00:22:19.825 --> 00:22:23.105
Speaker 0: or are we raised to suck?
00:22:23.105 --> 00:22:25.985
Speaker 0: And the answer to both is both.
00:22:25.985 --> 00:22:26.305
Speaker 0: Sure.
00:22:26.305 --> 00:22:27.265
Speaker 0: It's gotta be both.
00:22:27.265 --> 00:22:29.940
Speaker 0: It's always a both,
00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:33.460
Speaker 0: in which case, us as we're raising
00:22:33.460 --> 00:22:37.460
Speaker 0: young men can only do so much if you believe that
00:22:37.700 --> 00:22:40.500
Speaker 0: there is a hardwiring to the fact that we kinda suck.
00:22:40.500 --> 00:22:43.220
Speaker 0: We're predisposed to violence,
00:22:43.220 --> 00:22:47.015
Speaker 0: competition, other things that kind of may be at the root of why we
00:22:47.015 --> 00:22:50.455
Speaker 0: suck.
00:22:50.455 --> 00:22:53.735
Speaker 1: I don't
00:22:53.735 --> 00:22:57.735
Speaker 0: I think
00:22:58.680 --> 00:23:00.520
Speaker 0: I wonder if it comes down question
00:23:00.520 --> 00:23:01.240
Speaker 1: the question too.
00:23:01.240 --> 00:23:02.840
Speaker 1: You're allowed to question the question immediately.
00:23:02.840 --> 00:23:03.960
Speaker 1: Really, Boyd?
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.160
Speaker 1: Do
00:23:04.040 --> 00:23:04.520
Speaker 0: you No.
00:23:04.520 --> 00:23:07.480
Speaker 0: I do like the question.
00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:10.520
Speaker 0: I
00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:14.325
Speaker 0: I just think it comes down to
00:23:14.325 --> 00:23:18.325
Speaker 0: it's gotta come if we separate the nurture and nature, right, and
00:23:18.405 --> 00:23:20.725
Speaker 0: we I don't know the nature side of that.
00:23:20.725 --> 00:23:23.765
Speaker 0: I'm sure there are very good reasons why we are kind of predisposed to
00:23:23.765 --> 00:23:25.845
Speaker 0: be shitty to each other.
00:23:25.845 --> 00:23:28.965
Speaker 0: But on the nurture side, which is the part that we can control
00:23:28.965 --> 00:23:29.288
Speaker 1: Mhmm.
00:23:29.288 --> 00:23:33.130
Speaker 0: I wonder if it just comes down to
00:23:33.130 --> 00:23:35.610
Speaker 0: a lack of
00:23:35.610 --> 00:23:39.450
Speaker 0: role models.
00:23:39.450 --> 00:23:42.735
Speaker 0: And people that modeling the kind of yeah.
00:23:42.735 --> 00:23:45.375
Speaker 0: The the Modeling the kind of behaviors.
00:23:45.375 --> 00:23:45.575
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:45.535 --> 00:23:45.935
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:45.935 --> 00:23:46.655
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:23:46.655 --> 00:23:48.735
Speaker 1: I was I was about to say we're going down the path of Bob
00:23:48.735 --> 00:23:52.735
Speaker 1: Mathers getting canceled, that we need more success white male success
00:23:52.895 --> 00:23:55.540
Speaker 1: stories out in the world, to
00:23:55.540 --> 00:23:56.660
Speaker 1: to maul ourselves off of.
00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:59.220
Speaker 1: But I I know that's not what you meant, but I had to I
00:23:59.220 --> 00:23:59.940
Speaker 1: had to voice
00:23:59.940 --> 00:24:00.260
Speaker 0: Right.
00:24:00.260 --> 00:24:00.740
Speaker 0: Funny.
00:24:00.740 --> 00:24:00.940
Speaker 0: No.
00:24:00.820 --> 00:24:01.540
Speaker 0: It's not what I meant.
00:24:01.540 --> 00:24:05.540
Speaker 0: I guess it's just about,
00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:10.435
Speaker 0: modeling
00:24:10.435 --> 00:24:14.435
Speaker 0: the, you know, the kinds of men that are less shitty
00:24:14.515 --> 00:24:17.315
Speaker 0: that we want our kids to be.
00:24:17.315 --> 00:24:20.515
Speaker 0: It's funny that I and I think Whitney and I talked about this.
00:24:20.515 --> 00:24:23.800
Speaker 0: One of the questions that I asked Whitney,
00:24:23.800 --> 00:24:27.560
Speaker 0: your wife, when she was on is when is the last time you told
00:24:27.560 --> 00:24:30.120
Speaker 0: somebody you love them?
00:24:30.120 --> 00:24:32.120
Speaker 0: And she said, well, I told Cole this morning.
00:24:32.120 --> 00:24:35.320
Speaker 0: And I said, this wasn't a question I was planning on asking you today,
00:24:35.320 --> 00:24:38.185
Speaker 0: but that's just an example of I grew up.
00:24:38.185 --> 00:24:41.065
Speaker 0: My dad didn't say it often or at least I don't remember him saying
00:24:41.065 --> 00:24:41.545
Speaker 0: it.
00:24:41.545 --> 00:24:45.305
Speaker 0: And now even I don't tell my kids as often as I should, and
00:24:45.305 --> 00:24:48.265
Speaker 0: I never imagined that I would grow up to be a man that didn't
00:24:48.265 --> 00:24:52.265
Speaker 0: tell his kids he loved them every chance that he got, but I don't.
00:24:54.560 --> 00:24:58.560
Speaker 0: And I just think it's, you know, maybe a small example of
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.240
Speaker 0: the way that this gets kinda passed down from generation to generation.
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.120
Speaker 0: I wanna be a better dad than my dad was.
00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:09.705
Speaker 0: My dad was a good dad in in most ways, but I wanna be
00:25:09.705 --> 00:25:13.705
Speaker 0: better than him, and my kids wanna be better than them.
00:25:13.945 --> 00:25:17.945
Speaker 0: But we all sort of carry so much of
00:25:18.345 --> 00:25:22.345
Speaker 0: that behavior with us, and it's a lot harder to change
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:23.280
Speaker 0: than we think.
00:25:23.280 --> 00:25:26.960
Speaker 0: So coming back to why do we suck,
00:25:26.960 --> 00:25:30.640
Speaker 0: I think it takes generations
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.960
Speaker 0: for this kind of change to happen.
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:33.360
Speaker 0: I don't know.
00:25:33.360 --> 00:25:36.785
Speaker 0: What are your thoughts on it?
00:25:36.785 --> 00:25:40.785
Speaker 1: I like the separation of nature versus nurture because I
00:25:40.865 --> 00:25:43.825
Speaker 1: I think
00:25:43.825 --> 00:25:47.265
Speaker 1: not to get all I I did some philosophy in university and so I
00:25:47.265 --> 00:25:51.265
Speaker 1: had this very Hobbesian look at the world, which is we're all we're all
00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:55.400
Speaker 1: just in our core being male, female,
00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:56.520
Speaker 1: whatever.
00:25:56.520 --> 00:26:00.520
Speaker 1: Your whatever whoever and whatever you are and wherever you are, we're
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:02.600
Speaker 1: all hardwired to be bad.
00:26:02.600 --> 00:26:06.485
Speaker 1: It was kinda my to my parents dismay, that was my the the way
00:26:06.485 --> 00:26:09.525
Speaker 1: I started to to think of things.
00:26:09.525 --> 00:26:13.525
Speaker 1: So I like the idea of separating it out to to then
00:26:13.765 --> 00:26:15.605
Speaker 1: the nurture piece.
00:26:15.605 --> 00:26:17.445
Speaker 1: I would I would side with you.
00:26:17.445 --> 00:26:19.640
Speaker 1: I think
00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:21.080
Speaker 1: I am of the opinion.
00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:23.000
Speaker 1: The bar is really low.
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:26.920
Speaker 1: I've always joked that the bar is really low for me as a dad.
00:26:26.920 --> 00:26:30.680
Speaker 1: And the bar is really low for me as a husband to be good.
00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:31.880
Speaker 1: Like, what is a good husband?
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:33.475
Speaker 1: What is a good dad?
00:26:33.475 --> 00:26:34.995
Speaker 1: Feels like a low bar.
00:26:34.995 --> 00:26:37.315
Speaker 1: And so, I think that lines up a little bit with with with what
00:26:37.315 --> 00:26:38.675
Speaker 1: you're saying.
00:26:38.675 --> 00:26:41.715
Speaker 1: I think that I'm a great dad and I think I'm a great friend
00:26:41.715 --> 00:26:43.555
Speaker 1: and I think I'm a great husband.
00:26:43.555 --> 00:26:45.650
Speaker 1: All those things.
00:26:45.650 --> 00:26:49.570
Speaker 1: But is it because I'm objectively great or is it because the bar is
00:26:49.570 --> 00:26:52.690
Speaker 1: really low and I exceed that low bar?
00:26:52.690 --> 00:26:54.290
Speaker 1: Probably a little bit of both.
00:26:54.290 --> 00:26:56.290
Speaker 1: So, I think
00:26:56.290 --> 00:27:00.290
Speaker 1: the the answer that I had in my thinking about why do men
00:27:00.465 --> 00:27:04.145
Speaker 1: generally suck was
00:27:04.145 --> 00:27:08.145
Speaker 1: I have this sense that men are deeply insecure, generally, and
00:27:08.145 --> 00:27:10.465
Speaker 1: don't know what to do about it.
00:27:10.465 --> 00:27:14.465
Speaker 1: And they're not and they're not, you know, we
00:27:14.510 --> 00:27:18.270
Speaker 1: men generally don't Like, that that is not a thing you're allowed to be,
00:27:18.270 --> 00:27:22.270
Speaker 1: which feels like an an a nurture thing for sure.
00:27:22.270 --> 00:27:26.270
Speaker 1: And I think that everybody is insecure, generally.
00:27:27.185 --> 00:27:29.505
Speaker 1: And then I think
00:27:29.505 --> 00:27:31.745
Speaker 1: being
00:27:31.745 --> 00:27:35.745
Speaker 1: in an environment where that's almost not allowed makes it makes you do
00:27:36.065 --> 00:27:38.385
Speaker 1: just terrible things or or hide that.
00:27:38.385 --> 00:27:42.370
Speaker 1: I think of a lot of men that are those role models, going back
00:27:42.370 --> 00:27:45.010
Speaker 1: to how I was joking about you getting canceled before.
00:27:45.010 --> 00:27:49.010
Speaker 1: A lot of really successful people are insecure just like everybody
00:27:49.170 --> 00:27:50.370
Speaker 1: else.
00:27:50.370 --> 00:27:52.530
Speaker 1: They channel that energy into something else.
00:27:52.530 --> 00:27:56.445
Speaker 1: And even after achieving success, a lot of successful people, it turns out, are
00:27:56.445 --> 00:28:00.285
Speaker 1: deeply insecure just, again, like everybody else.
00:28:00.285 --> 00:28:03.245
Speaker 1: It doesn't make them a good person or a successful person.
00:28:03.245 --> 00:28:07.245
Speaker 1: Generally, it makes them successful financially or economically, but not like a good
00:28:07.405 --> 00:28:08.125
Speaker 1: person.
00:28:08.125 --> 00:28:12.125
Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of the models we have
00:28:12.150 --> 00:28:15.830
Speaker 1: as men are of masking your insecurity with achievement.
00:28:15.830 --> 00:28:19.750
Speaker 1: And then that leads to all kinds of
00:28:19.750 --> 00:28:22.975
Speaker 1: really bad outcomes.
00:28:22.975 --> 00:28:25.775
Speaker 1: So I I like the role model piece.
00:28:25.775 --> 00:28:29.615
Speaker 1: I like the nature versus nurture separation.
00:28:29.615 --> 00:28:32.895
Speaker 1: Because I I I do think, I mean, everybody sucks to some degree.
00:28:32.895 --> 00:28:34.415
Speaker 1: Like, everybody has a bit of that in them.
00:28:34.415 --> 00:28:38.415
Speaker 1: But I just have this overwhelming feeling that I just want my kids,
00:28:38.630 --> 00:28:42.630
Speaker 1: the the young men that I have the opportunity to to raise to
00:28:42.870 --> 00:28:43.590
Speaker 1: not suck.
00:28:43.590 --> 00:28:47.590
Speaker 1: And when I thought about this, it felt like I just wanna make them
00:28:48.150 --> 00:28:51.590
Speaker 1: know that it's okay to feel insecure, but also give them a deeper sense
00:28:51.590 --> 00:28:55.590
Speaker 1: of security by just being super real with them and telling them that
00:28:55.685 --> 00:28:59.685
Speaker 1: I get scared too and having real conversations or, like, you do telling them
00:28:59.765 --> 00:29:01.205
Speaker 1: that, that you love them.
00:29:01.205 --> 00:29:04.805
Speaker 1: I struggle with that too, by the way, just saying I love you.
00:29:04.805 --> 00:29:07.925
Speaker 1: I don't think I say that to very many people.
00:29:07.925 --> 00:29:08.565
Speaker 1: So that's the thing.
00:29:08.565 --> 00:29:11.610
Speaker 1: But, But, anyway, that's a that I I like I like I like your
00:29:11.610 --> 00:29:12.970
Speaker 1: perspective on it.
00:29:12.970 --> 00:29:14.570
Speaker 0: I love the question.
00:29:14.570 --> 00:29:15.450
Speaker 0: I'll never forget.
00:29:15.450 --> 00:29:18.810
Speaker 0: I don't know where I heard it from when you talk about the bar
00:29:18.810 --> 00:29:20.010
Speaker 0: being low for dads.
00:29:20.010 --> 00:29:24.010
Speaker 0: I remember there being a saying something around something like
00:29:24.945 --> 00:29:28.065
Speaker 0: eighty percent of being a good dad is just showing up.
00:29:28.065 --> 00:29:31.425
Speaker 0: And there were times when I was like, you know, I wasn't feeling like
00:29:31.425 --> 00:29:31.905
Speaker 0: the best dad.
00:29:31.905 --> 00:29:33.185
Speaker 0: I was like, well, I showed up today.
00:29:33.185 --> 00:29:34.865
Speaker 0: I guess that I guess I did a pretty good job.
00:29:34.865 --> 00:29:37.860
Speaker 0: It's like, I don't think anybody ever told a mom, hey.
00:29:37.860 --> 00:29:41.380
Speaker 0: Just eighty percent is just of being a good mom is showing up.
00:29:41.380 --> 00:29:41.860
Speaker 0: It's like, no.
00:29:41.860 --> 00:29:43.940
Speaker 0: The bar is much higher
00:29:43.940 --> 00:29:44.820
Speaker 1: for moms.
00:29:44.820 --> 00:29:45.300
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:29:45.300 --> 00:29:46.260
Speaker 1: Way higher.
00:29:46.260 --> 00:29:50.260
Speaker 1: Whitney is a she's a step parent to or stepmother to to these three
00:29:50.340 --> 00:29:52.180
Speaker 1: kids, but she's a full time mom.
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:56.180
Speaker 1: Like, our, like, she she is the she is their
00:29:56.285 --> 00:29:57.325
Speaker 1: mom, their their mother.
00:29:57.325 --> 00:29:57.885
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:29:57.885 --> 00:29:59.565
Speaker 1: And,
00:29:59.565 --> 00:30:01.805
Speaker 1: and she's taken that on.
00:30:01.805 --> 00:30:05.005
Speaker 1: And almost, like,
00:30:05.005 --> 00:30:08.890
Speaker 1: as good as a and as engaged as a dad as I am, I
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:12.890
Speaker 1: don't carry half the things in my head because I'm just not expected to.
00:30:12.970 --> 00:30:13.610
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:30:13.610 --> 00:30:14.650
Speaker 1: And I I just don't know.
00:30:14.650 --> 00:30:16.410
Speaker 1: We call it the invisible load.
00:30:16.410 --> 00:30:20.410
Speaker 1: And if the kids show up for school on time, it's
00:30:20.410 --> 00:30:21.530
Speaker 1: like, high five, dad.
00:30:21.530 --> 00:30:25.455
Speaker 1: But for moms, it's like, it is generally and I don't think this is
00:30:25.455 --> 00:30:27.935
Speaker 1: right, but it's like, well, do they have any nutritious lunch?
00:30:27.935 --> 00:30:29.295
Speaker 1: Do they have good clothes to wear?
00:30:29.295 --> 00:30:31.135
Speaker 1: Is the clothes clean or is their hair dress?
00:30:31.135 --> 00:30:33.135
Speaker 1: Like, these are all things that they get carried.
00:30:33.135 --> 00:30:34.580
Speaker 1: And I think that that is cultural.
00:30:34.580 --> 00:30:37.300
Speaker 1: So anyway, we can move off of this one, but I I I just
00:30:37.300 --> 00:30:39.940
Speaker 1: had I had a feeling that you as a as a father of two
00:30:39.940 --> 00:30:43.060
Speaker 1: young men might have a perspective and and a point of view on it.
00:30:43.060 --> 00:30:43.540
Speaker 1: I like it.
00:30:43.540 --> 00:30:43.740
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:30:43.700 --> 00:30:46.340
Speaker 0: I have a lot of lot more to say on this.
00:30:46.340 --> 00:30:50.095
Speaker 0: But one thing one last thing before we leave, though, it's it the other
00:30:50.095 --> 00:30:54.095
Speaker 0: thing is that I do look at my kids, and they are kinder
00:30:54.335 --> 00:30:57.215
Speaker 0: and more empathetic than I was at their age.
00:30:57.215 --> 00:30:58.815
Speaker 0: And so I do have a lot of hope.
00:30:58.815 --> 00:31:02.750
Speaker 0: I attribute almost all of that to my wife.
00:31:02.750 --> 00:31:06.270
Speaker 0: I mean, maybe she would say I'm a part of that too, but I
00:31:06.270 --> 00:31:10.270
Speaker 0: do think she's just encoded,
00:31:10.990 --> 00:31:12.750
Speaker 0: to have
00:31:12.750 --> 00:31:14.190
Speaker 0: for that emotional intelligence.
00:31:14.190 --> 00:31:17.485
Speaker 0: And I think a lot of that a lot of that, the best parts
00:31:17.485 --> 00:31:20.685
Speaker 0: of them come from her.
00:31:20.685 --> 00:31:23.805
Speaker 0: Because some sometimes I'll tell them a story, you know, when I'm telling them
00:31:23.805 --> 00:31:26.765
Speaker 0: something that I did back when I was their age, you know, partying, and
00:31:26.765 --> 00:31:30.765
Speaker 0: I swear they just look at me like, that is fucked up.
00:31:30.830 --> 00:31:31.950
Speaker 1: It's fucking weird enough.
00:31:31.950 --> 00:31:32.910
Speaker 1: I know.
00:31:32.910 --> 00:31:35.710
Speaker 1: But, actually so I'm gonna I'm gonna push back a little bit on this
00:31:35.710 --> 00:31:39.710
Speaker 1: one point, before we leave it because I actually think
00:31:39.870 --> 00:31:43.705
Speaker 1: even if the credit goes to Jill or the credit goes to Whitney or
00:31:43.705 --> 00:31:47.625
Speaker 1: the credit goes to whoever the partner is, I think as a dad, I
00:31:47.625 --> 00:31:51.625
Speaker 1: think it's important for you to own, hey, you know,
00:31:52.025 --> 00:31:56.025
Speaker 1: I to say all the good attributes they got from, I think,
00:31:57.140 --> 00:31:59.860
Speaker 1: perpetuates the problem that you said of not having good role models.
00:31:59.860 --> 00:32:00.100
Speaker 1: Mhmm.
00:32:00.100 --> 00:32:04.100
Speaker 1: I actually would love for you and I to own, hey, kindness is important,
00:32:04.580 --> 00:32:07.780
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna role model for you being kind, and you got that from
00:32:07.780 --> 00:32:08.740
Speaker 1: from both of us.
00:32:08.740 --> 00:32:10.315
Speaker 1: Whether they believe it or not.
00:32:10.315 --> 00:32:10.555
Speaker 1: Right.
00:32:10.555 --> 00:32:14.155
Speaker 1: Whether they would say that when you're not in the room or not, I
00:32:14.155 --> 00:32:18.155
Speaker 1: I think that that there's something there that I think is probably important
00:32:18.155 --> 00:32:22.155
Speaker 1: for you to own so that you kind of
00:32:22.235 --> 00:32:25.950
Speaker 1: incept into their minds that they're that they got some goodness from you.
00:32:25.950 --> 00:32:26.430
Speaker 1: I think Yeah.
00:32:26.430 --> 00:32:27.150
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:32:27.150 --> 00:32:27.790
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:32:27.790 --> 00:32:28.670
Speaker 0: I'll sign up for that.
00:32:28.670 --> 00:32:29.950
Speaker 0: I like that.
00:32:29.950 --> 00:32:30.350
Speaker 0: Okay.
00:32:30.350 --> 00:32:32.190
Speaker 0: The other question I had, it's so interesting.
00:32:32.190 --> 00:32:36.190
Speaker 0: It through these conversations and the hand handful of these
00:32:37.310 --> 00:32:39.815
Speaker 0: these one on ones,
00:32:39.815 --> 00:32:41.095
Speaker 0: episodes that I've done.
00:32:41.095 --> 00:32:45.095
Speaker 0: It's amazing how they even with zero intention, I gave you no boundaries.
00:32:45.175 --> 00:32:46.135
Speaker 0: I give none of the guess.
00:32:46.135 --> 00:32:48.375
Speaker 0: Like, you wanna ask me anything.
00:32:48.375 --> 00:32:52.375
Speaker 0: But they always do kind of they have so far at least,
00:32:52.760 --> 00:32:55.240
Speaker 0: kind of aligned around, core themes.
00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:57.240
Speaker 0: So when you're asking me that question, like, oh my god.
00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:01.240
Speaker 0: This is really relates to the second question that I wanted to ask you
00:33:01.320 --> 00:33:01.880
Speaker 1: Alright.
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:05.880
Speaker 0: Which is a bit deeply not deeply, but can be
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.325
Speaker 0: a bit uncomfortable.
00:33:07.325 --> 00:33:11.325
Speaker 0: So I wanna know tell me about the times in your
00:33:11.565 --> 00:33:15.565
Speaker 0: life, in the past or even today, where you have
00:33:15.645 --> 00:33:19.645
Speaker 0: a really hard time being happy for people.
00:33:20.710 --> 00:33:24.550
Speaker 0: And I think it does go back to that insecurity where I can tell
00:33:24.550 --> 00:33:27.510
Speaker 0: you that's like there are people close in my life where great things happen,
00:33:27.510 --> 00:33:31.510
Speaker 0: and I'm like, I feel like such an asshole.
00:33:31.510 --> 00:33:32.550
Speaker 0: Maybe I'm jealous.
00:33:32.550 --> 00:33:34.305
Speaker 0: Maybe I'm envious.
00:33:34.305 --> 00:33:38.305
Speaker 0: I get a manufacturer being happy for them because
00:33:39.345 --> 00:33:43.345
Speaker 0: I'm my my default is I'm not
00:33:43.425 --> 00:33:44.385
Speaker 0: happy for you.
00:33:44.385 --> 00:33:48.170
Speaker 0: And I take a little bit of joy when things aren't going well for
00:33:48.170 --> 00:33:48.730
Speaker 0: them.
00:33:48.730 --> 00:33:52.730
Speaker 0: And I fucking hate it's the one thing about me that I wish
00:33:52.970 --> 00:33:53.690
Speaker 0: I could change.
00:33:53.690 --> 00:33:55.930
Speaker 0: I fucking hate this about myself.
00:33:55.930 --> 00:33:58.730
Speaker 1: I could I could really take this thing for a twist and say and
00:33:58.730 --> 00:34:02.585
Speaker 1: we run this program called unblock yourself, and every time somebody gets unblocked, it
00:34:02.585 --> 00:34:03.705
Speaker 1: pisses me off, man.
00:34:03.705 --> 00:34:05.065
Speaker 1: Like, I'm just so hey.
00:34:05.065 --> 00:34:06.025
Speaker 1: I hit my milestones.
00:34:06.025 --> 00:34:09.545
Speaker 1: Like, fuck you.
00:34:09.545 --> 00:34:12.905
Speaker 0: You're here to be a failure so I can feel better about myself.
00:34:12.905 --> 00:34:14.105
Speaker 1: We run this program.
00:34:14.105 --> 00:34:14.985
Speaker 1: We run this program.
00:34:14.985 --> 00:34:17.305
Speaker 1: We do all the work we do because we want we want people to
00:34:17.305 --> 00:34:21.040
Speaker 1: come to us so we can we can just rub it in their face.
00:34:21.040 --> 00:34:22.880
Speaker 1: There's so much to suck.
00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:25.600
Speaker 1: This is this is a this is an interesting one.
00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:29.600
Speaker 1: Well, so because, yeah, you're really putting me on the spot here.
00:34:31.040 --> 00:34:33.595
Speaker 1: You know, could really alienate some people.
00:34:33.595 --> 00:34:36.875
Speaker 1: Well, here's I'll start with the opposite of your question.
00:34:36.875 --> 00:34:38.715
Speaker 1: My brother
00:34:38.715 --> 00:34:41.835
Speaker 1: is my brother is
00:34:41.835 --> 00:34:44.715
Speaker 1: well, he's my younger brother, and
00:34:44.715 --> 00:34:46.840
Speaker 1: he know, went to high school like I did.
00:34:46.840 --> 00:34:47.880
Speaker 1: He went to university.
00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:51.240
Speaker 1: He didn't finish, didn't finish going to university.
00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:55.240
Speaker 1: He moved back to, to our
00:34:55.240 --> 00:34:55.720
Speaker 1: hometown.
00:34:55.720 --> 00:34:59.720
Speaker 1: And then he worked in my in my family business, my
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:03.695
Speaker 1: dad's shop, for a number of years.
00:35:03.695 --> 00:35:07.135
Speaker 1: And he's really good at that.
00:35:07.135 --> 00:35:11.135
Speaker 1: And over the years, though, I think he's been navigating
00:35:11.215 --> 00:35:14.040
Speaker 1: trying to find something that'll make him really happy.
00:35:14.040 --> 00:35:18.040
Speaker 1: And I think that I've always enjoyed being, like, the older
00:35:18.040 --> 00:35:19.960
Speaker 1: brother that's had his shit together.
00:35:19.960 --> 00:35:23.400
Speaker 1: And I've so, you know, when I can meet up with with Ken, I
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:24.440
Speaker 1: can his name's Ken.
00:35:24.440 --> 00:35:28.440
Speaker 1: We can I can be, you know, wise or whatever?
00:35:28.555 --> 00:35:28.795
Speaker 1: Right?
00:35:28.795 --> 00:35:30.395
Speaker 1: Like, I can give advice.
00:35:30.395 --> 00:35:33.355
Speaker 1: And I think something just happened for him.
00:35:33.355 --> 00:35:35.915
Speaker 1: He got
00:35:35.915 --> 00:35:39.915
Speaker 1: he he got into into frame for him this idea that
00:35:40.155 --> 00:35:44.155
Speaker 1: he figured out that he is a excellent person
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:48.040
Speaker 1: at caring for others and he stays calm in really dramatic situations.
00:35:48.040 --> 00:35:51.400
Speaker 1: Just somehow, this this all clicked into frame for him.
00:35:51.400 --> 00:35:54.200
Speaker 1: So he's saying, maybe I'll be a paramedic and Mhmm.
00:35:54.200 --> 00:35:58.200
Speaker 1: Long story short, he just, like, standing ovation for Ken,
00:35:58.235 --> 00:36:02.235
Speaker 1: he is a certified firefighter and he just got hired in our
00:36:02.235 --> 00:36:06.235
Speaker 1: hometown to be a firefighter in our our hometown fire, fire
00:36:06.315 --> 00:36:06.955
Speaker 1: hall.
00:36:06.955 --> 00:36:07.995
Speaker 1: And he's graduated.
00:36:07.995 --> 00:36:10.610
Speaker 1: He's never graduated from anything besides high school.
00:36:10.610 --> 00:36:12.050
Speaker 1: He applied for the job and interviewed.
00:36:12.050 --> 00:36:14.130
Speaker 1: He's never applied for a job or interviewed for something ever.
00:36:14.130 --> 00:36:15.570
Speaker 1: He's got it.
00:36:15.570 --> 00:36:19.570
Speaker 1: And that was a scenario where I've as much as I've
00:36:19.810 --> 00:36:23.410
Speaker 1: always enjoyed being the the older brother and the wise one who's being really
00:36:23.410 --> 00:36:27.410
Speaker 1: successful, I think that I think that this is a
00:36:27.435 --> 00:36:31.435
Speaker 1: moment where I actually felt pure joy for him, like genuine
00:36:31.515 --> 00:36:32.555
Speaker 1: happiness.
00:36:32.555 --> 00:36:35.115
Speaker 1: But I think that that's new for me, Bob.
00:36:35.115 --> 00:36:37.355
Speaker 1: I think Greg,
00:36:37.355 --> 00:36:41.355
Speaker 1: five years ago, when I wasn't doing something that I genuinely
00:36:41.435 --> 00:36:45.435
Speaker 1: loved, I think that seeing him find something that he loved and
00:36:45.570 --> 00:36:49.570
Speaker 1: then going after it would have made me feel,
00:36:49.970 --> 00:36:53.970
Speaker 1: like, yeah, like, icky because I would wanna be happy for him, but
00:36:53.970 --> 00:36:57.495
Speaker 1: I'd be a little bit, like, fuck you, Ken.
00:36:57.495 --> 00:36:57.895
Speaker 1: You know?
00:36:57.895 --> 00:36:58.455
Speaker 1: Look at you.
00:36:58.455 --> 00:37:01.175
Speaker 1: Because my parents are really proud of him and everyone's like, oh, Ken's so
00:37:01.175 --> 00:37:01.895
Speaker 1: great.
00:37:01.895 --> 00:37:04.935
Speaker 1: And and, oh, there's Greg, you know, vice president of whatever.
00:37:04.935 --> 00:37:06.535
Speaker 1: Like, we don't even know what he does.
00:37:06.535 --> 00:37:10.535
Speaker 1: And and I think now that I'm doing something that I
00:37:10.630 --> 00:37:14.310
Speaker 1: really love, it's changed it's reframed it a little bit for me.
00:37:14.310 --> 00:37:17.270
Speaker 1: That when I see people being successful, I'm like, oh, yeah.
00:37:17.270 --> 00:37:21.270
Speaker 1: Like, as successful or not as we are, I I
00:37:21.270 --> 00:37:25.255
Speaker 1: actually am feeling a little bit more, like, when I see other people being
00:37:25.255 --> 00:37:26.775
Speaker 1: successful.
00:37:26.775 --> 00:37:29.175
Speaker 1: I
00:37:29.175 --> 00:37:33.175
Speaker 1: I I I actually because I know exactly what you mean because I would
00:37:33.175 --> 00:37:35.460
Speaker 1: have felt that way five years ago.
00:37:35.460 --> 00:37:38.260
Speaker 1: I feel a little bit less
00:37:38.260 --> 00:37:39.780
Speaker 1: like that now.
00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:40.660
Speaker 1: Caveat.
00:37:40.660 --> 00:37:43.300
Speaker 1: Alex Parks was on this podcast twice before I was.
00:37:43.300 --> 00:37:44.180
Speaker 1: Pisses me off.
00:37:44.180 --> 00:37:44.380
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:37:44.340 --> 00:37:46.980
Speaker 1: So I was, when I saw her name show up on your feed for
00:37:46.980 --> 00:37:50.665
Speaker 1: the second time, Alex, when you listen to this, I was jealous as hell.
00:37:50.665 --> 00:37:51.945
Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck you, Alex.
00:37:51.945 --> 00:37:54.665
Speaker 1: That's how I felt.
00:37:54.665 --> 00:37:58.665
Speaker 1: But I think generally, Bob, like, it's
00:37:58.665 --> 00:38:01.305
Speaker 1: it's a great question because I've felt it forever.
00:38:01.305 --> 00:38:05.305
Speaker 1: I remember when when I was working in in tech and working in
00:38:05.540 --> 00:38:09.540
Speaker 1: the industry, I anybody succeeding.
00:38:09.940 --> 00:38:13.940
Speaker 1: Anybody like, you consulting and coaching and anything that I saw
00:38:13.940 --> 00:38:17.655
Speaker 1: was just, like, Bob Mathers wins why where's my award?
00:38:17.655 --> 00:38:19.015
Speaker 1: Like, fuck Bob.
00:38:19.015 --> 00:38:19.255
Speaker 1: Right?
00:38:19.255 --> 00:38:20.775
Speaker 1: Like, I would always feel that way.
00:38:20.775 --> 00:38:23.415
Speaker 1: I genuinely
00:38:23.415 --> 00:38:27.415
Speaker 1: I think that now, I'm kinda when I see other people succeeding,
00:38:27.895 --> 00:38:29.335
Speaker 1: I kinda go, wow.
00:38:29.335 --> 00:38:31.620
Speaker 1: Like, good for them.
00:38:31.620 --> 00:38:35.460
Speaker 1: I hope that I can I hope that I can do that too with
00:38:35.460 --> 00:38:36.100
Speaker 1: what I'm doing?
00:38:36.100 --> 00:38:39.300
Speaker 1: Because I did the whole re back to zero thing.
00:38:39.300 --> 00:38:43.300
Speaker 1: Going from having a successful job to starting a business,
00:38:43.895 --> 00:38:46.055
Speaker 1: really having a tough time articulating what it was we did.
00:38:46.055 --> 00:38:49.815
Speaker 1: And then having people ask me about, like, this whole project you're working on,
00:38:49.815 --> 00:38:50.935
Speaker 1: how's it going there, Greg?
00:38:50.935 --> 00:38:54.935
Speaker 1: And feeling awkward and But I I feel,
00:38:54.935 --> 00:38:57.335
Speaker 1: yeah, I feel less
00:38:57.335 --> 00:39:00.660
Speaker 1: competitive about things
00:39:00.660 --> 00:39:02.260
Speaker 1: than
00:39:02.260 --> 00:39:04.500
Speaker 1: than I ever have, but I know the feeling.
00:39:04.500 --> 00:39:06.580
Speaker 1: And I I hold up my brother as an example of that.
00:39:06.580 --> 00:39:10.260
Speaker 1: Thank god he was successful becoming a firefighter now and not five years ago
00:39:10.260 --> 00:39:12.660
Speaker 1: because I would've hated him.
00:39:12.660 --> 00:39:12.980
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:39:12.980 --> 00:39:13.940
Speaker 0: It does.
00:39:13.940 --> 00:39:17.035
Speaker 1: But there's something to that though because I that resonates with me, but it's
00:39:17.035 --> 00:39:18.235
Speaker 1: it's just changed.
00:39:18.235 --> 00:39:19.755
Speaker 1: It's just changed for
00:39:19.755 --> 00:39:19.955
Speaker 0: me.
00:39:19.835 --> 00:39:22.635
Speaker 0: It does come back to the insecurity piece.
00:39:22.635 --> 00:39:25.435
Speaker 0: It's something that
00:39:25.435 --> 00:39:26.955
Speaker 0: I've never talked about.
00:39:26.955 --> 00:39:30.955
Speaker 0: I could never how would I tell one of my friends that
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:34.160
Speaker 0: something great has happened to them and that I'm actually not very happy for
00:39:34.160 --> 00:39:37.040
Speaker 0: them, and I'm a little happier when things don't go well?
00:39:37.040 --> 00:39:40.240
Speaker 0: Just seems like such a terrible
00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:41.280
Speaker 0: trait to have.
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:42.160
Speaker 0: I agree.
00:39:42.160 --> 00:39:42.480
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.385
Speaker 0: Much more common than anybody would talk about.
00:39:45.385 --> 00:39:48.905
Speaker 0: You and I, when we first met, we were sort of tech bros.
00:39:48.905 --> 00:39:52.745
Speaker 0: And then we would, you know, we were
00:39:52.745 --> 00:39:56.265
Speaker 0: I don't think I you know, you left and got a a big job,
00:39:56.265 --> 00:39:59.600
Speaker 0: and then I was a VP, and then you were a VP, and we
00:39:59.600 --> 00:40:00.720
Speaker 0: get together and have a beer.
00:40:00.720 --> 00:40:03.760
Speaker 0: I don't think either of us was happy for the other person ever.
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:04.080
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:40:04.080 --> 00:40:04.480
Speaker 1: We were just
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.040
Speaker 0: sort of put on this, you know, facade of, hey.
00:40:07.040 --> 00:40:07.680
Speaker 0: Oh, it's real.
00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:09.200
Speaker 0: You're doing some great things, man.
00:40:09.200 --> 00:40:10.080
Speaker 0: It's so great.
00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:12.505
Speaker 0: And we're just like, fuck that guy.
00:40:12.505 --> 00:40:13.065
Speaker 1: Totally.
00:40:13.065 --> 00:40:16.825
Speaker 1: So I I am sure there were multiple occasions where people would ask me,
00:40:16.825 --> 00:40:18.745
Speaker 1: oh, do you hear Bob just got promoted to VP?
00:40:18.745 --> 00:40:21.145
Speaker 1: I'd be like, that guy is not a vice president.
00:40:21.145 --> 00:40:24.585
Speaker 1: That guy that is gonna go down in flames.
00:40:24.585 --> 00:40:27.480
Speaker 1: I I I'm sure that I said that behind your back.
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:29.800
Speaker 1: I that's so that's so funny.
00:40:29.800 --> 00:40:33.080
Speaker 1: And Whitney has accused me of this often.
00:40:33.080 --> 00:40:34.680
Speaker 1: And sadly, it's a bit true.
00:40:34.680 --> 00:40:38.520
Speaker 1: Like, she's she's said things like,
00:40:38.520 --> 00:40:40.835
Speaker 1: she'll she'll say
00:40:40.835 --> 00:40:44.835
Speaker 1: that I have a tendency to stay in touch with people that serve
00:40:44.915 --> 00:40:46.195
Speaker 1: me in some way.
00:40:46.195 --> 00:40:49.715
Speaker 1: So, you know, this whole idea of, you know, Bob and I are tech
00:40:49.715 --> 00:40:53.635
Speaker 1: bros, and we'll hang out with each other and and all of that because
00:40:53.635 --> 00:40:55.650
Speaker 1: in some way, it actually benefits me.
00:40:55.650 --> 00:40:57.010
Speaker 1: Mhmm.
00:40:57.010 --> 00:40:59.970
Speaker 1: I think I think there's been there's there's some truth to that.
00:40:59.970 --> 00:41:03.890
Speaker 1: But also, I just really like as it's turned out, I just really like
00:41:03.890 --> 00:41:07.890
Speaker 1: interesting people and people who are interesting such as yourself,
00:41:08.850 --> 00:41:12.850
Speaker 1: like, because we've definitely opened a different chapter in our relationship,
00:41:12.905 --> 00:41:15.305
Speaker 1: are, I think,
00:41:15.305 --> 00:41:17.945
Speaker 1: I think that,
00:41:17.945 --> 00:41:21.945
Speaker 1: I think that interesting people tend to be, tend to tend to be
00:41:21.945 --> 00:41:25.945
Speaker 1: successful in their own, in whatever way that means for for them.
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:30.480
Speaker 1: All but you're making me think, though, when we
00:41:31.120 --> 00:41:35.120
Speaker 1: reopened the chapter of our life together,
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:39.120
Speaker 1: that sounds like a lot more formal than it needed to be.
00:41:39.120 --> 00:41:43.120
Speaker 1: When because you and I, we were together interacting regularly, and
00:41:43.215 --> 00:41:47.135
Speaker 1: then I went off the cliff of my life in twenty twenty, and we
00:41:47.135 --> 00:41:49.295
Speaker 1: probably didn't talk for four or five years.
00:41:49.295 --> 00:41:53.295
Speaker 1: And so when we reconnected in the context of of Vanna Waites,
00:41:54.670 --> 00:41:58.670
Speaker 1: your you came forward with wanting to build a speaking career in
00:41:58.990 --> 00:42:02.990
Speaker 1: a in this I I so I'll be honest, I actually think
00:42:03.070 --> 00:42:07.070
Speaker 1: that when you articulated that as a goal, I
00:42:08.685 --> 00:42:10.525
Speaker 1: I felt like I wanted to do that.
00:42:10.525 --> 00:42:14.525
Speaker 1: And so seeing you were providing, ironically, providing a program that
00:42:14.525 --> 00:42:17.485
Speaker 1: would help you do that, I was like, fuck this guy.
00:42:17.485 --> 00:42:20.685
Speaker 1: I don't want him to be but but I think that that's something's faded
00:42:20.685 --> 00:42:24.685
Speaker 1: away because I've I've figured out a little bit more what it what
00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:28.920
Speaker 1: it's been for what it is that I'm supposed to to put
00:42:29.000 --> 00:42:33.000
Speaker 1: my energy into, and that helps me focus on me
00:42:33.880 --> 00:42:37.880
Speaker 1: and less on, you know, what Bob's doing or anybody else,
00:42:38.235 --> 00:42:40.875
Speaker 1: which has been that's a totally new thing.
00:42:40.875 --> 00:42:42.475
Speaker 1: That's very new.
00:42:42.475 --> 00:42:42.795
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:42:42.795 --> 00:42:44.395
Speaker 0: And I noticed it in myself too.
00:42:44.395 --> 00:42:48.155
Speaker 0: And I think the point, I guess, is that
00:42:48.155 --> 00:42:52.155
Speaker 0: if you know, when I feel it, when you're feeling it, it's a signal
00:42:52.315 --> 00:42:55.010
Speaker 0: that something's out of frame.
00:42:55.010 --> 00:42:59.010
Speaker 0: We're using language around a book that we're both deeply engrossed in right now.
00:42:59.170 --> 00:43:02.690
Speaker 0: What to Make of Life by Jim Collins.
00:43:02.690 --> 00:43:05.655
Speaker 0: But it's it's a signal that
00:43:05.655 --> 00:43:08.695
Speaker 0: that something is out of you're not in a line.
00:43:08.695 --> 00:43:11.175
Speaker 0: You're not
00:43:11.175 --> 00:43:14.615
Speaker 0: avoid using the word purpose, but you're not doing the things that you're naturally
00:43:14.615 --> 00:43:16.295
Speaker 0: encoded to do.
00:43:16.295 --> 00:43:20.295
Speaker 0: And because when you are, it feels like you're genuinely happy.
00:43:20.810 --> 00:43:23.450
Speaker 0: Everybody else around me, I hope they find their encodings.
00:43:23.450 --> 00:43:25.770
Speaker 0: I hope they're in frame because I finally found something.
00:43:25.770 --> 00:43:29.290
Speaker 0: And I would say even in the last year, you and Whitney have got
00:43:29.290 --> 00:43:33.050
Speaker 0: much more focused on what the business is about, what you're uniquely talented, not
00:43:33.050 --> 00:43:37.050
Speaker 0: just have strengths on, but naturally born
00:43:37.185 --> 00:43:40.545
Speaker 0: gifted things that you're good at.
00:43:40.545 --> 00:43:44.545
Speaker 0: And that just makes it easier to be happy for everyone around you because
00:43:45.025 --> 00:43:47.745
Speaker 0: it feels the competition feels less important.
00:43:47.745 --> 00:43:49.850
Speaker 1: I I think that's so on point.
00:43:49.850 --> 00:43:53.850
Speaker 1: I think when you when you like, the general you, when a person
00:43:54.730 --> 00:43:58.170
Speaker 1: speaking from now experiencing this a little bit, and it's just a taste of
00:43:58.170 --> 00:43:58.650
Speaker 1: it.
00:43:58.650 --> 00:44:02.445
Speaker 1: But when you start to get a sense for what it is you're good
00:44:02.445 --> 00:44:06.445
Speaker 1: at, and you and you have conviction and some focus on undoing
00:44:07.005 --> 00:44:11.005
Speaker 1: that thing, then all of a sudden, the
00:44:11.565 --> 00:44:15.565
Speaker 1: the the other things that are interesting fade away
00:44:16.130 --> 00:44:17.170
Speaker 1: because no.
00:44:17.170 --> 00:44:17.370
Speaker 1: No.
00:44:17.330 --> 00:44:17.650
Speaker 1: No.
00:44:17.650 --> 00:44:20.690
Speaker 1: You know, I might wanna speak and I might wanna run a tech company.
00:44:20.690 --> 00:44:23.410
Speaker 1: I wanna I might wanna, you know, sell that or do that, but no.
00:44:23.410 --> 00:44:23.650
Speaker 1: No.
00:44:23.650 --> 00:44:23.850
Speaker 1: No.
00:44:23.810 --> 00:44:26.210
Speaker 1: What I'm supposed to do is this.
00:44:26.210 --> 00:44:30.210
Speaker 1: And once you have that clarity, it's way harder to get jealous
00:44:30.595 --> 00:44:33.475
Speaker 1: of the other people doing the other things because you're just in your lane
00:44:33.475 --> 00:44:36.195
Speaker 1: focused on what you are meant to do.
00:44:36.195 --> 00:44:40.195
Speaker 1: I think that's been such a powerful takeaway from that book everyone
00:44:40.595 --> 00:44:41.315
Speaker 1: should read.
00:44:41.315 --> 00:44:41.710
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:44:41.710 --> 00:44:43.310
Speaker 1: Like, it's like a life manual.
00:44:43.310 --> 00:44:46.430
Speaker 1: I think everyone should get that at the age of eighteen and say, read
00:44:46.430 --> 00:44:46.750
Speaker 1: this.
00:44:46.750 --> 00:44:49.310
Speaker 1: It'll help at some point in time.
00:44:49.310 --> 00:44:51.790
Speaker 1: I think I think that there's some real truth to that because it's so
00:44:51.790 --> 00:44:53.645
Speaker 1: easy to be distracted.
00:44:53.645 --> 00:44:55.165
Speaker 1: There's it's so easy to be distracted.
00:44:55.165 --> 00:44:59.005
Speaker 1: I've been distracted all my life by other people's successes and wanting to be
00:44:59.005 --> 00:45:00.045
Speaker 1: like them.
00:45:00.045 --> 00:45:01.565
Speaker 1: And
00:45:01.565 --> 00:45:05.565
Speaker 1: only when you figure what you're supposed to do can you, I think, be
00:45:06.045 --> 00:45:09.740
Speaker 1: be genuinely happy for other people, even your brother.
00:45:09.740 --> 00:45:10.540
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:45:10.540 --> 00:45:13.500
Speaker 0: I I, and there were times yeah.
00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:16.700
Speaker 0: There were it's funny you mentioned the book because I'm a little surprised that
00:45:16.700 --> 00:45:19.900
Speaker 0: it's at minute, you know, forty something before the book came up because I
00:45:19.900 --> 00:45:22.380
Speaker 0: was like, I don't need to ask him about this book because it's gonna
00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:24.275
Speaker 0: come up.
00:45:24.275 --> 00:45:27.075
Speaker 0: But I I just walked through the world like, oh, is that person in
00:45:27.075 --> 00:45:27.555
Speaker 0: frame?
00:45:27.555 --> 00:45:29.475
Speaker 0: Or I wonder what if they're encoded for that.
00:45:29.475 --> 00:45:30.675
Speaker 0: Am I encoded for this?
00:45:30.675 --> 00:45:34.675
Speaker 0: It's just changed everything about and I I tend to get
00:45:35.635 --> 00:45:36.690
Speaker 0: kinda fanatical about things.
00:45:36.690 --> 00:45:38.210
Speaker 0: Like, once I find something, it's like, okay.
00:45:38.210 --> 00:45:39.330
Speaker 0: This is gonna change everything.
00:45:39.330 --> 00:45:43.330
Speaker 0: It's just changed my life view, and I think this legitimately is
00:45:43.570 --> 00:45:45.490
Speaker 0: has a lot of promise.
00:45:45.490 --> 00:45:49.010
Speaker 0: And, you know, he's a he's a big deal writer, so it's gonna be
00:45:49.010 --> 00:45:50.065
Speaker 0: a massive thing.
00:45:50.065 --> 00:45:54.065
Speaker 0: And it just feels like it was written perfectly for me right at this
00:45:54.145 --> 00:45:56.305
Speaker 0: point in my life and for everybody that I'm talking to.
00:45:56.305 --> 00:46:00.065
Speaker 0: But I also think, like you said, it's equally something that a twenty year
00:46:00.065 --> 00:46:03.825
Speaker 0: old could read to try to save themselves some time trying to figure out
00:46:03.825 --> 00:46:06.070
Speaker 0: what they're naturally gifted at.
00:46:06.070 --> 00:46:06.270
Speaker 1: At.
00:46:06.150 --> 00:46:08.230
Speaker 1: I saw I I agree.
00:46:08.230 --> 00:46:12.230
Speaker 1: So before before I ask you the next, which is actually a follow
00:46:12.390 --> 00:46:16.390
Speaker 1: on in a way to to the wishing you asked me, the the
00:46:17.110 --> 00:46:21.110
Speaker 1: I saw an app, Microsoft AI generated
00:46:21.125 --> 00:46:25.125
Speaker 1: technology, that is was positioned as the
00:46:25.285 --> 00:46:28.005
Speaker 1: future, and I'll find the name of it, and you can add it to
00:46:28.005 --> 00:46:28.405
Speaker 1: your show notes.
00:46:28.405 --> 00:46:31.750
Speaker 1: But I almost don't wanna promote it because I've got a I've got a
00:46:31.750 --> 00:46:32.070
Speaker 1: problem with it.
00:46:32.070 --> 00:46:33.350
Speaker 1: I'm trying to figure what the problem is.
00:46:33.350 --> 00:46:37.350
Speaker 1: But it's an app that is the future of education that is
00:46:38.070 --> 00:46:42.070
Speaker 1: this agentic AI tool that you can talk to, feed
00:46:42.070 --> 00:46:45.110
Speaker 1: it information about yourself, and it'll tell you what you should do with your
00:46:45.110 --> 00:46:45.830
Speaker 1: life.
00:46:45.830 --> 00:46:47.165
Speaker 1: Mhmm.
00:46:47.165 --> 00:46:51.005
Speaker 1: Which in some ways, I think is super cool.
00:46:51.005 --> 00:46:53.485
Speaker 1: But in so many other ways, I go, god.
00:46:53.485 --> 00:46:56.365
Speaker 1: That that is not how I want my kids to figure out what to
00:46:56.365 --> 00:46:57.645
Speaker 1: do with their lives.
00:46:57.645 --> 00:47:01.645
Speaker 1: And there's so many ways, you know, forget about like, I then I get
00:47:01.650 --> 00:47:04.690
Speaker 1: all big brother and, like, imagine the world needs more engineers.
00:47:04.690 --> 00:47:08.690
Speaker 1: So if somebody tweaks the algorithm to create more create more engineers
00:47:08.690 --> 00:47:09.730
Speaker 1: or whatever.
00:47:09.730 --> 00:47:11.650
Speaker 1: So forget that for a moment.
00:47:11.650 --> 00:47:15.650
Speaker 1: Just the notion that I think that and what this book speaks
00:47:15.655 --> 00:47:18.215
Speaker 1: to is
00:47:18.215 --> 00:47:22.215
Speaker 1: when you authentically encounter the things that you are
00:47:22.535 --> 00:47:26.535
Speaker 1: naturally encoded for, the things that you're naturally gifted at, the things that you're
00:47:26.535 --> 00:47:30.050
Speaker 1: just naturally good at, and not good at relative to other people.
00:47:30.050 --> 00:47:32.210
Speaker 1: It's not like I'm a better speaker than Bob.
00:47:32.210 --> 00:47:35.410
Speaker 1: I'm just a I'm a better I'm better at speaking than I am at
00:47:35.410 --> 00:47:39.330
Speaker 1: other things which I think is a really important distinction.
00:47:39.330 --> 00:47:42.850
Speaker 1: Once you figure that out for yourself, if you do that authentically, then it
00:47:42.850 --> 00:47:44.765
Speaker 1: clicks and it's real.
00:47:44.765 --> 00:47:48.765
Speaker 1: When you're told something, I've been told I'm good at things my whole
00:47:48.925 --> 00:47:49.805
Speaker 1: life.
00:47:49.805 --> 00:47:51.005
Speaker 1: You're good at sales.
00:47:51.005 --> 00:47:51.725
Speaker 1: You should sell.
00:47:51.725 --> 00:47:53.565
Speaker 1: You're good at, leading.
00:47:53.565 --> 00:47:54.205
Speaker 1: You should lead.
00:47:54.205 --> 00:47:55.485
Speaker 1: You're good at building bikes.
00:47:55.485 --> 00:47:56.205
Speaker 1: You should build bikes.
00:47:56.205 --> 00:48:00.205
Speaker 1: So, I just I've always done what people told me to do.
00:48:00.940 --> 00:48:04.860
Speaker 1: To to have an app that tells you what you should do irks me
00:48:04.860 --> 00:48:06.860
Speaker 1: because I think you gotta discover those things.
00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:08.460
Speaker 1: I just made this Yeah.
00:48:08.460 --> 00:48:12.445
Speaker 1: Like, at the tender age of thirty nine, maybe I've gone old school.
00:48:12.445 --> 00:48:16.365
Speaker 1: But I I really believe that the book leans into that in every way,
00:48:16.365 --> 00:48:20.365
Speaker 1: and all the evidence suggests that people discover those things and
00:48:21.165 --> 00:48:23.165
Speaker 1: discovery makes it way richer.
00:48:23.165 --> 00:48:25.000
Speaker 1: But, anyway, I don't know if you put the book.
00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:26.280
Speaker 1: We're geeking out on that.
00:48:26.280 --> 00:48:26.680
Speaker 0: Right.
00:48:26.680 --> 00:48:29.880
Speaker 0: But one last thing is that
00:48:29.880 --> 00:48:33.160
Speaker 0: it's like if somebody could tell you the meaning of life, would you wanna
00:48:33.160 --> 00:48:34.280
Speaker 0: know?
00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:36.815
Speaker 0: The the beauty of it is the searching.
00:48:36.815 --> 00:48:39.775
Speaker 0: It's the the point of it is to try to figure it out, to
00:48:39.775 --> 00:48:42.895
Speaker 0: try to and one of the things the book that I love most about
00:48:42.895 --> 00:48:46.895
Speaker 0: the book is that your encodings are revealed through the your experiences
00:48:47.295 --> 00:48:47.775
Speaker 0: of your life.
00:48:47.775 --> 00:48:48.990
Speaker 0: Yes.
00:48:48.990 --> 00:48:52.350
Speaker 0: Which means if you're fifty five and you've been doing one thing for thirty
00:48:52.350 --> 00:48:55.390
Speaker 0: years and you don't know what else to do, it just means you're naturally
00:48:55.390 --> 00:48:59.390
Speaker 0: gifted at doing a million things that you've never just you never needed
00:48:59.390 --> 00:49:03.390
Speaker 0: to do because life has just never required you to do them, which means
00:49:04.265 --> 00:49:05.865
Speaker 0: you can do virtually anything.
00:49:05.865 --> 00:49:09.145
Speaker 0: You just have to get curious and go out and try new things.
00:49:09.145 --> 00:49:12.905
Speaker 0: And I wouldn't want the answer, somebody to tell me when I'm twenty years
00:49:12.905 --> 00:49:15.225
Speaker 0: old, this is what you were meant to do.
00:49:15.225 --> 00:49:19.225
Speaker 0: I would I would miss out on all of the messiness of
00:49:19.540 --> 00:49:21.220
Speaker 0: finding my way through it myself.
00:49:21.220 --> 00:49:21.620
Speaker 1: Agree.
00:49:21.620 --> 00:49:24.820
Speaker 1: I think that you would I think you would also just not believe it.
00:49:24.820 --> 00:49:27.940
Speaker 1: You it wouldn't be able to, like it wouldn't be wholehearted.
00:49:27.940 --> 00:49:31.585
Speaker 1: You'd just be I am sure I'm gonna do this.
00:49:31.585 --> 00:49:33.505
Speaker 1: Where where did this question even begin?
00:49:33.505 --> 00:49:34.385
Speaker 1: This is I
00:49:34.385 --> 00:49:35.825
Speaker 0: honestly was it my question?
00:49:35.825 --> 00:49:37.105
Speaker 0: It was I think it was.
00:49:37.105 --> 00:49:37.345
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:49:37.345 --> 00:49:37.985
Speaker 1: It was your question.
00:49:37.985 --> 00:49:39.665
Speaker 1: Oh, I think you were asking about no.
00:49:39.665 --> 00:49:42.705
Speaker 1: I think this is a it was a great tangent because it it it
00:49:42.705 --> 00:49:45.425
Speaker 1: was when you get jealous of of people.
00:49:45.425 --> 00:49:49.425
Speaker 1: I I I have been I won't ask I won't ask you
00:49:49.660 --> 00:49:53.660
Speaker 1: specifically, but I am curious if that's faded for you
00:49:53.980 --> 00:49:56.460
Speaker 1: before we move off the topic.
00:49:56.460 --> 00:50:00.460
Speaker 1: Has that faded for you, or is it still a thing that
00:50:00.460 --> 00:50:02.195
Speaker 1: you struggle with?
00:50:02.195 --> 00:50:05.235
Speaker 0: It's still a thing I struggle with, but it's also faded.
00:50:05.235 --> 00:50:09.235
Speaker 0: And as I become clearer on
00:50:09.795 --> 00:50:12.435
Speaker 0: what I wanna do for the next ten years or at least the next
00:50:12.435 --> 00:50:16.435
Speaker 0: couple years, it's like when it hits, it's when I'm feeling
00:50:16.910 --> 00:50:20.910
Speaker 0: insecure, when I'm in the fog, when I'm lost, when I haven't slept well.
00:50:21.870 --> 00:50:24.350
Speaker 0: It's one hundred percent to do with me.
00:50:24.350 --> 00:50:28.350
Speaker 0: And when I'm feeling I've had some success and I've got some momentum
00:50:28.905 --> 00:50:31.385
Speaker 0: and I'm feeling aligned,
00:50:31.385 --> 00:50:34.425
Speaker 0: I have no problem being happy with the people around me.
00:50:34.425 --> 00:50:37.225
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:50:37.225 --> 00:50:38.905
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:50:38.905 --> 00:50:42.905
Speaker 1: Bob, I've got a I guess this would be our our last the
00:50:42.905 --> 00:50:43.545
Speaker 1: last question.
00:50:43.545 --> 00:50:46.660
Speaker 1: I mean, as you've as I've heard you say in these episodes before, you
00:50:46.660 --> 00:50:47.620
Speaker 1: keep them going forever.
00:50:47.620 --> 00:50:50.980
Speaker 1: But let me let me hit you with this because I had a few,
00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:54.980
Speaker 1: but the one that seems to fit really nicely with this is,
00:50:55.300 --> 00:50:59.300
Speaker 1: what do you wish people would say about you behind your back?
00:51:00.935 --> 00:51:03.975
Speaker 1: So when you're not in the room, if you were to look around, you
00:51:03.975 --> 00:51:05.655
Speaker 1: can characterize this as well.
00:51:05.655 --> 00:51:09.015
Speaker 1: You could say, generally, or you could say, I'd want these people to say
00:51:09.015 --> 00:51:09.255
Speaker 1: this.
00:51:09.255 --> 00:51:10.375
Speaker 1: I don't want those people.
00:51:10.375 --> 00:51:13.255
Speaker 1: What do you what would you want people to say about you behind your
00:51:13.255 --> 00:51:15.790
Speaker 1: back?
00:51:15.790 --> 00:51:18.030
Speaker 1: And I can tell you all the things that I've said about you behind
00:51:18.030 --> 00:51:22.030
Speaker 1: your back, but it wouldn't it probably wouldn't be probably wouldn't
00:51:22.030 --> 00:51:26.030
Speaker 1: be, helpful in this context.
00:51:29.470 --> 00:51:33.205
Speaker 1: I
00:51:33.205 --> 00:51:33.525
Speaker 0: god.
00:51:33.525 --> 00:51:37.525
Speaker 0: That is a great question.
00:51:40.805 --> 00:51:44.325
Speaker 0: The my I guess I just gotta go with the first thing that pops
00:51:44.325 --> 00:51:46.820
Speaker 0: into my head
00:51:46.820 --> 00:51:50.660
Speaker 0: in
00:51:50.660 --> 00:51:54.660
Speaker 0: that he helps me see things in myself that I
00:51:55.140 --> 00:51:58.655
Speaker 0: didn't know before.
00:51:58.655 --> 00:52:02.095
Speaker 0: That's one of the things I think
00:52:02.095 --> 00:52:06.095
Speaker 0: that it comes up.
00:52:07.375 --> 00:52:08.095
Speaker 0: You know?
00:52:08.095 --> 00:52:12.095
Speaker 0: Obviously, maybe the second one is that he was,
00:52:13.055 --> 00:52:17.055
Speaker 0: you know, that he's a good dad.
00:52:18.950 --> 00:52:22.230
Speaker 0: And I don't I don't know why those things come up first, and I'm
00:52:22.230 --> 00:52:25.350
Speaker 0: sure I could come up with a more eloquent
00:52:25.350 --> 00:52:28.695
Speaker 0: answer, but those are the things that pop into my head.
00:52:28.695 --> 00:52:32.295
Speaker 1: Can you hit the first one again or re reinterpret that?
00:52:32.295 --> 00:52:35.415
Speaker 1: What what was the first again in your words?
00:52:35.415 --> 00:52:39.415
Speaker 0: He helps me see things in myself that I didn't know were there.
00:52:39.820 --> 00:52:40.300
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:52:40.300 --> 00:52:43.100
Speaker 1: That's a good one.
00:52:43.100 --> 00:52:46.220
Speaker 1: Cool.
00:52:46.220 --> 00:52:49.820
Speaker 1: Why is that important to you?
00:52:49.820 --> 00:52:50.060
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:52:50.060 --> 00:52:54.060
Speaker 0: I was thinking about that too.
00:52:54.745 --> 00:52:56.665
Speaker 0: I can only
00:52:56.665 --> 00:52:58.265
Speaker 0: speculate
00:52:58.265 --> 00:53:01.465
Speaker 0: that
00:53:01.465 --> 00:53:05.465
Speaker 0: it's what I value in the people around me,
00:53:05.545 --> 00:53:09.545
Speaker 0: and maybe it's what I wish I had more of at certain
00:53:09.710 --> 00:53:13.710
Speaker 0: times of my life.
00:53:14.830 --> 00:53:18.830
Speaker 0: I think we are all
00:53:19.150 --> 00:53:20.875
Speaker 0: so
00:53:20.875 --> 00:53:24.875
Speaker 0: much we're much more capable
00:53:25.755 --> 00:53:27.755
Speaker 0: than we can see.
00:53:27.755 --> 00:53:31.755
Speaker 0: Like, it's impossible for ourselves to see the promise, the
00:53:31.755 --> 00:53:35.755
Speaker 0: things that we're naturally gifted at, the millions of other amazing
00:53:36.100 --> 00:53:40.100
Speaker 0: things we could do with the talents that we've that we were born
00:53:40.100 --> 00:53:44.100
Speaker 0: with and the strengths that we've nurtured over our lives.
00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:46.020
Speaker 0: We just can't see it.
00:53:46.020 --> 00:53:49.415
Speaker 0: We just live in this meat sack every day, and we have these stories
00:53:49.415 --> 00:53:52.135
Speaker 0: that we tell ourselves about what we're good at.
00:53:52.135 --> 00:53:55.735
Speaker 0: And if you can have somebody that
00:53:55.735 --> 00:53:59.735
Speaker 0: can hold up that mirror and says, this is what the world sees.
00:54:01.600 --> 00:54:05.600
Speaker 0: All of these things that you don't see or you forgotten about yourself.
00:54:06.560 --> 00:54:09.600
Speaker 0: And this person
00:54:09.600 --> 00:54:11.280
Speaker 0: is unstoppable.
00:54:11.280 --> 00:54:15.265
Speaker 0: They can do it's not a matter of what you can do.
00:54:15.265 --> 00:54:19.265
Speaker 0: It's just a matter of picking the next thing
00:54:19.825 --> 00:54:23.825
Speaker 0: that everybody in the world knows you're capable of doing except you.
00:54:25.505 --> 00:54:28.350
Speaker 1: And there's a mic drop moment.
00:54:28.350 --> 00:54:29.310
Speaker 1: That's great.
00:54:29.310 --> 00:54:33.310
Speaker 1: I think and I think it comes from a place of,
00:54:34.030 --> 00:54:38.030
Speaker 1: again, I think this general or genuine encoding
00:54:38.030 --> 00:54:42.030
Speaker 1: for you, like a genuine
00:54:42.295 --> 00:54:45.335
Speaker 1: desire to be a certain way or help other people be a certain way.
00:54:45.335 --> 00:54:49.335
Speaker 1: It also comes, it sounds like, from
00:54:49.335 --> 00:54:53.335
Speaker 1: a thing you missed out on for a long time in your life.
00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:57.440
Speaker 1: That'd be a good one if people said no.
00:54:57.440 --> 00:54:58.640
Speaker 1: I'll let you know.
00:54:58.640 --> 00:54:58.880
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:54:58.880 --> 00:55:00.480
Speaker 1: I'll let you know if I hear that.
00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:01.840
Speaker 0: That feels pretty ambitious.
00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:02.240
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:55:02.240 --> 00:55:04.960
Speaker 1: But but I I I love that as a I love that as a
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.695
Speaker 1: North Star.
00:55:07.695 --> 00:55:11.695
Speaker 0: What are the things that you hope people say when you're not
00:55:11.775 --> 00:55:12.815
Speaker 0: around?
00:55:12.815 --> 00:55:15.455
Speaker 1: I really hope that people would say that I helped them see a version
00:55:15.455 --> 00:55:19.215
Speaker 1: of themselves that was better and sorry, Bob.
00:55:19.215 --> 00:55:21.800
Speaker 1: That wasn't
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:25.480
Speaker 1: What I wrote down was exactly that, exactly what you said.
00:55:25.480 --> 00:55:28.680
Speaker 1: When so, of course, in asking the question, it forced me to think about
00:55:28.680 --> 00:55:29.800
Speaker 1: what my answer might be.
00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:33.800
Speaker 1: I think that it's unfortunately not as profound,
00:55:34.715 --> 00:55:38.715
Speaker 1: as as what you had said, but I I would leave it at this.
00:55:38.715 --> 00:55:42.715
Speaker 1: I think that if people the value that I end up
00:55:42.715 --> 00:55:46.715
Speaker 1: hearing myself talk to the kids about constantly is just
00:55:46.715 --> 00:55:48.400
Speaker 1: kindness.
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:52.400
Speaker 1: And so, I think if if I think I would love it
00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.440
Speaker 1: if people said things my ego would love it if people said things like,
00:55:55.440 --> 00:55:57.920
Speaker 1: he's a genius and he's so smart.
00:55:57.920 --> 00:56:01.695
Speaker 1: But I think at my core, I think it's probably,
00:56:01.695 --> 00:56:04.975
Speaker 1: I think if people said, man, he's just kind.
00:56:04.975 --> 00:56:07.855
Speaker 1: He's just a really kind person.
00:56:07.855 --> 00:56:08.495
Speaker 1: Like, what else?
00:56:08.495 --> 00:56:09.455
Speaker 1: What else would I need?
00:56:09.455 --> 00:56:12.335
Speaker 1: I think if I left the room and people were like, there's there's a
00:56:12.335 --> 00:56:13.615
Speaker 1: kind human being.
00:56:13.615 --> 00:56:17.300
Speaker 1: Like, he's a good man, back to the first point.
00:56:17.300 --> 00:56:17.620
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:56:17.620 --> 00:56:21.620
Speaker 1: I think that would be I think that would be that'd be
00:56:21.620 --> 00:56:23.780
Speaker 1: winning for me, I think.
00:56:23.780 --> 00:56:27.220
Speaker 1: All those other things are really nice and and helpful, but I think that's
00:56:27.220 --> 00:56:29.975
Speaker 1: the the ultimate one.
00:56:29.975 --> 00:56:30.375
Speaker 0: Yep.
00:56:30.375 --> 00:56:32.535
Speaker 0: That's good.
00:56:32.535 --> 00:56:34.695
Speaker 0: How did this conversation feel to you?
00:56:34.695 --> 00:56:38.695
Speaker 0: How did it how was it different than what you were expecting?
00:56:40.535 --> 00:56:44.170
Speaker 1: Well, the thing is because I had such high hopes for it, I've been
00:56:44.170 --> 00:56:46.650
Speaker 1: looking forward to it so much,
00:56:46.650 --> 00:56:50.650
Speaker 1: the like, it was in no way underwhelming except for my voice cracking
00:56:50.890 --> 00:56:54.730
Speaker 1: just then, the the puberty re re returning.
00:56:54.730 --> 00:56:58.730
Speaker 1: The so I think that I I think that I'm
00:56:59.805 --> 00:57:02.925
Speaker 1: it's like I'm satisfied, but I'm also like, look at the time.
00:57:02.925 --> 00:57:04.125
Speaker 1: We've gotta wrap this thing up.
00:57:04.125 --> 00:57:07.485
Speaker 1: People aren't gonna wanna listen to us for an hour and forty five minutes.
00:57:07.485 --> 00:57:11.485
Speaker 1: So I feel like we're gonna have to if you're open to it.
00:57:11.950 --> 00:57:13.870
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like a three peat.
00:57:13.870 --> 00:57:16.430
Speaker 1: We we get another person on and, like, do a bit of a round
00:57:16.430 --> 00:57:16.910
Speaker 1: table.
00:57:16.910 --> 00:57:20.430
Speaker 1: I think I just love, like like you described at the outset, when you
00:57:20.430 --> 00:57:23.550
Speaker 1: put a microphone on and you have a conversation, there's just something that's really
00:57:23.550 --> 00:57:25.625
Speaker 1: nice about that.
00:57:25.625 --> 00:57:29.625
Speaker 1: And I haven't cared about what somebody might take away
00:57:29.865 --> 00:57:33.865
Speaker 1: from the conversation listening to it so much as just really enjoying the
00:57:33.865 --> 00:57:34.665
Speaker 1: conversation with you.
00:57:34.665 --> 00:57:37.625
Speaker 1: So I think it's been great.
00:57:37.625 --> 00:57:38.990
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:57:38.990 --> 00:57:39.230
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:57:39.230 --> 00:57:39.630
Speaker 0: Me too.
00:57:39.630 --> 00:57:40.990
Speaker 1: And it's my family and my whole family.
00:57:40.990 --> 00:57:44.030
Speaker 1: I want my whole family, when they listen to this, to, like, shout it
00:57:44.030 --> 00:57:48.030
Speaker 1: out on WhatsApp or WhatsApp group and be like, oh, Greg, piano man.
00:57:48.030 --> 00:57:48.590
Speaker 1: That was so great.
00:57:48.590 --> 00:57:51.310
Speaker 1: And then they'll they'll they'll they'll say, oh, you know, you use the f
00:57:51.310 --> 00:57:54.365
Speaker 1: word and I'll get, you know, get some harassment for that.
00:57:54.365 --> 00:57:56.205
Speaker 1: But I hope I get some props for that one.
00:57:56.205 --> 00:58:00.125
Speaker 1: Shout out to cousin Charles who introduced me to Piano Man.
00:58:00.125 --> 00:58:00.525
Speaker 0: Yeah.
00:58:00.525 --> 00:58:01.405
Speaker 0: It's interesting.
00:58:01.405 --> 00:58:05.085
Speaker 0: I you know, you mentioned the episode with Jake Gold and I've Mhmm.
00:58:05.085 --> 00:58:09.085
Speaker 0: And I had Alan Cross and I've and, John Bacon and these big names,
00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:13.800
Speaker 0: and I've really enjoyed that.
00:58:14.040 --> 00:58:18.040
Speaker 0: But sometimes I think these conversations, like the one we just had, is the
00:58:18.120 --> 00:58:19.480
Speaker 0: reason I started this.
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:23.480
Speaker 0: Like, I I don't know There are four topics
00:58:23.675 --> 00:58:27.435
Speaker 0: that you and I might have stumbled across, one or two of them in
00:58:27.435 --> 00:58:29.515
Speaker 0: the next ten years.
00:58:29.515 --> 00:58:32.315
Speaker 0: How where else would these conversations live?
00:58:32.315 --> 00:58:34.440
Speaker 0: How else would they happen?
00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:35.160
Speaker 0: I don't Yeah.
00:58:35.160 --> 00:58:35.800
Speaker 0: Think they would.
00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:39.480
Speaker 0: And maybe the point of this podcast is just to reconnect with people in
00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:43.160
Speaker 0: my lives that I wish I spent more time with.
00:58:43.160 --> 00:58:44.520
Speaker 1: Thanks for that, Bob.
00:58:44.520 --> 00:58:47.435
Speaker 1: I appreciate making time to have that conversation with.
00:58:47.435 --> 00:58:51.435
Speaker 1: For for me to be one of those people means, definitely means something
00:58:52.795 --> 00:58:53.915
Speaker 1: to me.
00:58:53.915 --> 00:58:56.475
Speaker 1: And so I'm I'm grateful for that.
00:58:56.475 --> 00:59:00.315
Speaker 1: I think I do think that there's something to it too.
00:59:00.315 --> 00:59:03.410
Speaker 1: Here's here's just an interesting take I have.
00:59:03.410 --> 00:59:05.090
Speaker 1: I started listening to podcasts.
00:59:05.090 --> 00:59:08.770
Speaker 1: My first the first podcast I listened to is Tim Ferriss.
00:59:08.770 --> 00:59:12.770
Speaker 1: And I loved and still do love the way he asks
00:59:12.770 --> 00:59:13.905
Speaker 1: questions.
00:59:13.905 --> 00:59:17.905
Speaker 1: And I remember for a number of years after listening to to his podcast,
00:59:18.465 --> 00:59:22.465
Speaker 1: it changed how I it changed how I would have conversations with
00:59:22.465 --> 00:59:22.945
Speaker 1: people.
00:59:22.945 --> 00:59:25.025
Speaker 1: And I got feedback from time to time.
00:59:25.025 --> 00:59:27.345
Speaker 1: Oh, you have such great questions.
00:59:27.345 --> 00:59:31.345
Speaker 1: And I would I would attribute at least some of that
00:59:31.460 --> 00:59:35.460
Speaker 1: to just listening to that podcast.
00:59:35.460 --> 00:59:39.460
Speaker 1: So maybe, Bob, there's a mission here
00:59:39.620 --> 00:59:42.980
Speaker 1: that I think the world becomes a better place when people get better at
00:59:42.980 --> 00:59:46.715
Speaker 1: having real, genuine, authentic, and curious conversations.
00:59:46.715 --> 00:59:47.195
Speaker 1: I don't know.
00:59:47.195 --> 00:59:51.195
Speaker 1: The takeaway from for me, for anyone listening to this is if this helps
00:59:52.235 --> 00:59:55.115
Speaker 1: other people in in any way, like, take the questions we ask each other
00:59:55.115 --> 00:59:57.755
Speaker 1: and, you know, do something with that, I think that that I think that's
00:59:57.755 --> 00:59:59.030
Speaker 1: a win.
00:59:59.030 --> 01:00:01.350
Speaker 1: Like, I think that that is a a service to the world.
01:00:01.350 --> 01:00:05.350
Speaker 1: So credit to you for doing that, and I appreciate me being
01:00:05.510 --> 01:00:07.670
Speaker 1: one of the people you get to have a conversation with.
01:00:07.670 --> 01:00:07.990
Speaker 0: Yeah.
01:00:07.990 --> 01:00:10.070
Speaker 0: Well, I that's awesome.
01:00:10.070 --> 01:00:11.190
Speaker 0: I love that.
01:00:11.190 --> 01:00:14.435
Speaker 0: I feel like we should
01:00:14.435 --> 01:00:18.115
Speaker 0: point people if they've listened to this and
01:00:18.115 --> 01:00:22.115
Speaker 0: for if some somehow people are listening to this
01:00:22.195 --> 01:00:24.995
Speaker 0: conversation that don't already know you and me.
01:00:24.995 --> 01:00:25.955
Speaker 1: Yeah.
01:00:25.955 --> 01:00:29.120
Speaker 0: They can find more they can find out more about the work that you
01:00:29.120 --> 01:00:33.120
Speaker 0: and your, wife, Whitney, are doing at Vienna Waits at Vienna Waits dot
01:00:33.200 --> 01:00:37.200
Speaker 0: com, the unblocked podcast, which you've alluded to, which is actually really
01:00:37.280 --> 01:00:41.280
Speaker 0: good, the retreat that you've got coming up in Southern Ontario
01:00:41.360 --> 01:00:45.360
Speaker 0: in September, which is called Waypoint, which is a transformational,
01:00:47.255 --> 01:00:50.215
Speaker 0: experience for everybody that was there last year, and I can't wait to go
01:00:50.215 --> 01:00:50.615
Speaker 0: this year.
01:00:50.615 --> 01:00:52.295
Speaker 0: I mean, you guys are got a lot going on.
01:00:52.295 --> 01:00:55.495
Speaker 0: You talked about the newsletter, so I'll put all that stuff in the show
01:00:55.495 --> 01:00:57.380
Speaker 0: notes.
01:00:57.380 --> 01:00:58.020
Speaker 0: Anything else?
01:00:58.020 --> 01:01:01.060
Speaker 0: Anywhere else people can find you or anything else that people need to know
01:01:01.060 --> 01:01:02.580
Speaker 0: about you?
01:01:02.580 --> 01:01:05.940
Speaker 1: I think that that's very kind of you to to refer to all that.
01:01:05.940 --> 01:01:09.940
Speaker 1: I think, we welcome, you know, million
01:01:10.215 --> 01:01:14.215
Speaker 1: billionaire investor types, who wanna just contribute,
01:01:15.095 --> 01:01:19.095
Speaker 1: to to the to the group to just send us large checks.
01:01:19.415 --> 01:01:22.215
Speaker 1: You know, our our address is in the mail.
01:01:22.215 --> 01:01:22.415
Speaker 1: No.
01:01:22.375 --> 01:01:26.300
Speaker 1: I I think that our, like, our mission, I think is probably the thing
01:01:26.300 --> 01:01:29.820
Speaker 1: that I would come back to and anchor anchor this in.
01:01:29.820 --> 01:01:32.700
Speaker 1: And I think this is probably part of why I just don't feel that
01:01:32.700 --> 01:01:34.460
Speaker 1: jealous feeling anymore.
01:01:34.460 --> 01:01:37.245
Speaker 1: Our mission has become
01:01:37.245 --> 01:01:41.245
Speaker 1: so clear that we wanna help a million people just live more intentionally.
01:01:41.725 --> 01:01:45.245
Speaker 1: And to us, what that means is not just going through the motions of
01:01:45.245 --> 01:01:48.605
Speaker 1: life or doing something because you feel like you need to or because you
01:01:48.605 --> 01:01:52.605
Speaker 1: should, but choosing a way of of living.
01:01:52.820 --> 01:01:56.180
Speaker 1: And that might be choosing a job you don't love, but it is a
01:01:56.180 --> 01:01:58.100
Speaker 1: means to an end so you can care for others.
01:01:58.100 --> 01:02:02.100
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean, you know, burning the house down and and moving to
01:02:02.260 --> 01:02:03.220
Speaker 1: Costa Rica.
01:02:03.220 --> 01:02:06.645
Speaker 1: I think for us, it's just we have one life.
01:02:06.645 --> 01:02:09.845
Speaker 1: Make a choice to live it intentionally every day, and I think that that
01:02:09.845 --> 01:02:13.845
Speaker 1: makes everything better and unlocks more human potential.
01:02:13.845 --> 01:02:16.165
Speaker 1: And I think, Bob, you're one of those people, and we get to work
01:02:16.165 --> 01:02:18.725
Speaker 1: with you and and do that stuff with you.
01:02:18.725 --> 01:02:19.980
Speaker 1: We're we're on our way to a million people.
01:02:19.980 --> 01:02:21.820
Speaker 1: We wanna work with more and more and more people.
01:02:21.820 --> 01:02:25.820
Speaker 1: So check us out if you haven't learned about us already and we'd love
01:02:25.820 --> 01:02:29.340
Speaker 1: to get to know you, work with you, and maybe you can meet Bob
01:02:29.340 --> 01:02:32.435
Speaker 1: at, Waypoint twenty twenty six.
01:02:32.435 --> 01:02:33.315
Speaker 0: That's awesome.
01:02:33.315 --> 01:02:33.635
Speaker 0: Yeah.
01:02:33.635 --> 01:02:35.235
Speaker 0: Thanks so much for doing this, man.
01:02:35.235 --> 01:02:37.395
Speaker 0: And,
01:02:37.395 --> 01:02:38.915
Speaker 0: yeah, god, we covered a lot of ground.
01:02:38.915 --> 01:02:39.795
Speaker 0: This is amazing.
01:02:39.795 --> 01:02:43.715
Speaker 0: What the the best gift of these conversations is we're gonna hang up the
01:02:43.715 --> 01:02:44.115
Speaker 0: phone.
01:02:44.115 --> 01:02:44.790
Speaker 0: We're gonna go.
01:02:44.790 --> 01:02:46.710
Speaker 0: We're gonna jump back into our normal lives.
01:02:46.710 --> 01:02:49.990
Speaker 0: There's gonna be a couple of things about this conversation that definitely stick with
01:02:49.990 --> 01:02:53.510
Speaker 0: me and then I'll reflect on, but then it'll kind of fade.
01:02:53.510 --> 01:02:56.710
Speaker 0: And a month from now when it's time to release it, I get to
01:02:56.710 --> 01:02:58.230
Speaker 0: go back and listen to it again.
01:02:58.230 --> 01:02:59.830
Speaker 0: And it's like, oh my god.
01:02:59.830 --> 01:03:01.485
Speaker 0: This was so fucking good.
01:03:01.485 --> 01:03:02.765
Speaker 0: Like, it's I don't know.
01:03:02.765 --> 01:03:06.765
Speaker 0: It just I I podcasts are amazing way to keep
01:03:06.845 --> 01:03:10.845
Speaker 0: the not only to force these conversations from happening, but to
01:03:10.925 --> 01:03:13.910
Speaker 0: keep them alive and to keep them have a place where I can go
01:03:13.910 --> 01:03:15.430
Speaker 0: back and list listen to them again.
01:03:15.430 --> 01:03:17.990
Speaker 0: So I can't thank you enough.
01:03:17.990 --> 01:03:19.110
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for having me, Bob.
01:03:19.110 --> 01:03:19.990
Speaker 1: It's always a pleasure.
01:03:19.990 --> 01:03:23.990
Speaker 1: We'll do it again sometime.
01:03:24.390 --> 01:03:28.390
Speaker 0: The Girl With Mixtape podcast with Bob Mathers is produced by Bespoke Projects,
01:03:28.435 --> 01:03:30.675
Speaker 0: music by Jim Appel Walter Cronkite.
01:03:30.675 --> 01:03:33.875
Speaker 0: If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to follow and rate us.
01:03:33.875 --> 01:03:36.915
Speaker 0: When you do this, it helps to raise our podcast profile so that more
01:03:36.915 --> 01:03:38.035
Speaker 0: people can find us.
01:03:38.035 --> 01:03:40.835
Speaker 1: If you wanna connect, you can find me on LinkedIn using the link in
01:03:40.835 --> 01:03:43.710
Speaker 1: the show
01:03:43.710 --> 01:03:45.710
Speaker 1: notes.

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