When Affordability Breaks What Still Moves

WEBVTT
00:00:02.640 --> 00:00:08.000
Welcome to the ground game for mortgage professionals built for the fight.
00:00:09.679 --> 00:00:13.919
Hosted by Brian Lovell and Mark Mylan.
00:00:15.599 --> 00:00:16.000
All right.
00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:20.079
Hey, welcome to another episode of the Ground Game Podcast here with Mark Mylan.
00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:20.879
I am Brian.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:22.079
So, Mark.
00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:27.280
Today is September 13th.
00:00:27.359 --> 00:00:29.120
This podcast will come out this week.
00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:30.320
Or is today the 14th.
00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:32.960
Today's the 14th, I'm sorry, here on Monday.
00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:36.479
Um, it's been an exciting couple of days.
00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:37.119
Right.
00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:38.560
All of August, really.
00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:43.439
I mean, the entire month of August was this pretty sustained sell-off in bonds.
00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:48.159
And then as we hit September, especially over the past week, boy, it is just on steroids.
00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:56.399
Uh, you know, and we are now pricing, I mean, a solid, you know, half to three quarters of a point worse in rate than we were, you know, 45 days ago.
00:00:56.479 --> 00:00:56.640
Yeah.
00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:06.079
So it's a substantial amount of pricing power lost uh and affordability worsened on top of already, you know, not so great levels of affordability to begin with.
00:01:06.480 --> 00:01:10.640
So we find ourselves back to interest rate levels that we haven't seen since 2023.
00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:10.959
Yeah.
00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:14.480
And uh and the 10 year is even worse than that as far as where that goes.
00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:18.560
The the thing that's saving mortgage rates, at least in the present, is the spreads.
00:01:18.799 --> 00:01:19.040
Spreads.
00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:19.359
Yeah.
00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:21.280
Spreads are still pretty, pretty good.
00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:21.599
Yeah.
00:01:21.760 --> 00:01:22.000
Yeah.
00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:24.159
So it's been a tough couple of days in the market.
00:01:24.239 --> 00:01:30.079
I think we had a day last week where we lost seven over 70 basis points in mortgage-backed securities.
00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:34.799
I don't remember what that day ended up like on the 10 year, but we're in the four nines on the 10 year.
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:41.200
We've got a Fed uh meeting this week and rate decision, which every everything's leaning towards.
00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:42.239
There's a hike.
00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:42.799
Yep.
00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.159
Um, 25 basis points, 50 basis points.
00:01:46.480 --> 00:01:49.439
I think it's 25, and I think it's actually needed personally.
00:01:49.519 --> 00:01:56.319
I'm hopeful that the hike, while you know, is it really is our problem really here a demand problem?
00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.599
And is is that, you know, can the Fed really influence it that much?
00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:07.200
I I do subscribe to the theory that the long end of the yield curve is looking somewhere for fiscal responsibility.
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:07.439
Okay.
00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:07.840
Right.
00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:10.479
And we're not getting it from Congress, either side of the aisle.
00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:18.240
It's not like any Democrat is standing up and saying we're gonna cut social programs and there's no Republican standing up and saying we're gonna hike, you know, we're gonna raise taxes.
00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:30.400
So if we're not gonna cut spending, we're not gonna raise tax revenue, I think the bond market is desperately looking around, saying, almost panicking, say, saying, where is the fiscal responsibility?
00:02:30.560 --> 00:02:39.360
And if the Fed, which has allowed inflation to persist above 2% now for 65 consecutive months, a stretch that we haven't seen since the 1980s.
00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:39.919
Wow.
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:50.800
If the Fed is going to uh, you know, say, well, we're just gonna wait and see on this, because if we trim out this and we don't look at energy and we don't look at food, it we're we're just gonna take a wait and see approach.
00:02:50.879 --> 00:02:52.400
Boy, I don't think that'll be good for us at all.
00:02:52.800 --> 00:03:07.360
I'm almost hoping that the Fed does hike, and I'm hopeful that the the long end of the yield curve will look at it as finally someone is doing something to, you know, uh about all of these factors that are influencing mortgage rates.
00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:13.039
Okay, um, so 25 basis points likely uh hike, right?
00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:15.599
Any argument for 50?
00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:18.080
I think you could make an argument for 50.
00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:18.479
Yeah.
00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:22.000
I I think uh, you know, the market likes to anticipate these things.
00:03:22.080 --> 00:03:27.439
And the one thing that Warsh has been, the Fed chairman has been very vocal about is that he doesn't want to give a lot of forward guidance, right?
00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:31.680
He doesn't want to turn the Fed into a trading utility, right?
00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:35.840
Like he felt like it got there under Jerome Powell, rightly or wrongly.
00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:40.639
Uh so but I think that there is a statement that could be made.
00:03:40.800 --> 00:03:46.960
Uh, my personal opinion, and uh I have several people that I respect who disagree with me on this, I think the Fed should have hiked last time.
00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:56.639
Uh I think waiting until now, now we're getting really close to the midterms, it puts the Fed in a position of being perceived as political to be hiking right before an important election cycle.
00:03:56.719 --> 00:03:57.120
Yeah.
00:03:57.439 --> 00:04:04.400
But from an economic standpoint, we're there are just so many factors negatively influencing the long end of the yield curve.
00:04:04.479 --> 00:04:08.719
And while this certainly affects mortgage and housing, it's not isolated to mortgage and housing.
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:09.120
No.
00:04:09.360 --> 00:04:12.319
Um, and how many of these are within our control?
00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:14.400
We can't control what's happening with oil, right?
00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:17.040
That's that's not anything that's in the Fed's purview.
00:04:17.199 --> 00:04:18.720
Um, and that's just one factor.
00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:23.680
And we have obviously we have inflation, we have debt issuance, we have 40 trillion in national debt.
00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.120
Uh, there are so many different compounding factors.
00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:33.839
And even in we're uh maybe we'll get into this talking about oil, and it's not even just as simple as there's a conflict in the Middle East.
00:04:33.920 --> 00:04:34.720
It's it's more complex.
00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:35.920
And now it's getting wide.
00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:36.560
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:37.360
No, yeah.
00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:38.639
Now it's starting to get wide.
00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:49.199
So um, you know, it's an interesting season that we're in because I think coming out of the summer, and you know, kind of I always kind of say Labor Day is like the official end of summer.
00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.839
Um, you know, real estate agents go back to work.
00:04:52.000 --> 00:04:59.680
We typically see like an increase in activity in our business in in home sales and obviously the the lending piece of it.
00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:06.639
Um, it it hasn't we haven't seen that spike um that we normally would see this time of the year.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:10.959
And I think a lot of that is uh because of the the market being rate driven.
00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:15.600
Um, what do you think overall is just kind of like the sentiment right now?
00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:20.000
Well, I'll I'll counteract you a little bit.
00:05:20.160 --> 00:05:22.959
So I I think for the month of August it was definitely muted.
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:27.439
I have seen a pickup in the past week of activity.
00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:30.319
Uh now, obviously, this is a really small sample size.
00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:30.800
Yeah.
00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.800
Um, but it it's enough of it and it's different enough.
00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:38.480
Listen, that this industry is so wonderful.
00:05:38.800 --> 00:05:40.959
This stuff sells itself, right?
00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:42.240
People want homes.
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:42.720
Yes.
00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.600
It's such a powerful thing to own a home.
00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:47.279
You got to pay for somewhere to live.
00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:50.800
Why not pay somewhere that's gonna create generational wealth for you?
00:05:50.879 --> 00:05:57.199
Yeah, and you'll have this power to make it your own and improve it and renovate and decorate all the stuff that you want to do.
00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.319
You really have to try hard to screw this industry up.
00:06:00.399 --> 00:06:01.600
And we've done it.
00:06:01.839 --> 00:06:05.439
You know, we've done it over the past 15 to 20 years.
00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.759
So I still think there's this inherent desire that people have to want to do this.
00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:12.720
And I feel it from first-time home buyers as well as move up buyers.
00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:15.519
Um, there no one's gonna love their rate.
00:06:15.759 --> 00:06:17.279
This is gonna cut down on volume.
00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:22.079
Yes, it's really gonna squeeze the 250 and under, the the 300,000 and under.
00:06:22.160 --> 00:06:26.720
And you just have to look at the NAR's existing home sales report from last week to see it.
00:06:26.879 --> 00:06:31.040
The disparity between over a million, over a million is still increasing.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:31.839
Crazy.
00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:34.959
Down at the low end, yeah, 350 and below.
00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:36.800
Boy, the drop-off is substantial.
00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.120
I think it's like down 9% year over year.
00:06:40.560 --> 00:06:41.519
It was almost double digits.
00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:41.759
Yeah.
00:06:41.920 --> 00:07:00.240
Yeah, which is crazy to think because like I go back to another similar time as this, like 08, 9, and 10, you know, that a tough market, different for different reasons, but that um higher end, that luxury buyer, yeah, those homes would sit on the market for 18 months, 24 months.
00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:00.720
Right.
00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.160
And now they're smoking off the market.
00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:05.759
It's just total opposite.
00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.000
Man, I had a great friend.
00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.839
He actually lived with me for a while before he moved out west and he's passed away since then.
00:07:11.920 --> 00:07:15.120
But had a great friend, he was the broker, a broker at Keller Williams.
00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:24.800
And he used to, because in that time period when luxury homes were sitting, he would go to the cellar and and the seller had vacated the home, home sitting empty, and he would say, I'll stage your home.
00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:32.319
I'll move all my furniture into it, I'll stage it, I'll pay all the utilities, but I'll live there for free because staged homes would sell faster.
00:07:32.639 --> 00:07:33.199
No kidding.
00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:39.759
And he would live for multi-million dollar homes in Buckhead in Atlanta years at a time.
00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:41.600
That's fantastic and basically just paid the utility.
00:07:41.680 --> 00:07:44.639
Now the utilities, it was like$2,000 a month just to cool the place.
00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:45.040
Yes.
00:07:45.199 --> 00:07:45.839
Yes, yeah.
00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:46.959
But it was such a fun.
00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:49.680
I went to many a wonderful party at these homes.
00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.439
What a what a fantastic idea.
00:07:51.600 --> 00:07:51.839
Yeah.
00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:52.399
Okay.
00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.160
So um we got the the we said we talked about the Fed meeting already.
00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:57.839
You you hinted a little bit at oil.
00:07:58.399 --> 00:07:58.800
All right.
00:07:58.959 --> 00:08:04.560
So um oil is obviously driven right now because of the conflict that we have going on.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:04.959
Sure.
00:08:05.120 --> 00:08:16.079
But there's some new dynamics that have come into play over the last couple of days and over the weekend, um, which also is gonna put more pressure on the U.S.'s strategic oil reserves.
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:18.959
Obviously, oil is tied to inflation.
00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:24.079
Like, I guess what I'm gonna ask you is there any end in sight?
00:08:25.439 --> 00:08:34.000
Uh well, I you know, I don't think there's anybody that could realistically look at this conflict and say, you know, we knew 100% it was going to last this long.
00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:34.320
Right.
00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:39.759
You know, I'm certain the current administration didn't feel that way because they told us that it was gonna be over a lot faster than this.
00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:40.639
A couple of weeks.
00:08:40.799 --> 00:08:41.120
Yeah.
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:58.320
And, you know, one way that we we mitigated the effects of the Ukrainian war, and this is under the prior administration, and one way we've mitigated the effects of the price of oil in this in this uh conflict in Iran is that we've been releasing some of our strategic petroleum reserves.
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:01.600
And when I say some, I mean hundreds of millions of barrels of oil.
00:09:01.840 --> 00:09:15.759
And if you're not familiar, the strategic petroleum reserve was created in the 1980s when we came out of this energy supply shock and recognized we can't be so beholden or so you know powerless to control the price of oil.
00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:18.240
Need to be more dependent on our own oil.
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:19.120
Exactly.
00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:28.159
And so I think a lot of people are aware we have a strategic petroleum reserve, but like if you're like me, you didn't really understand it until maybe this conflict.
00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:39.200
And so there are 60 or so salt caverns in Louisiana and Texas that house hundreds of millions of barrels of oil, and it's a particular type of oil, right?
00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:41.360
Uh uh that's a particular type of crude.
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.799
It's not the same type of oil that maybe are in the in the mountains in Venezuela.
00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:45.279
Okay.
00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:52.799
And it has been drawn down over time, some by the Biden administration, and now most recently by the Trump administration.
00:09:53.039 --> 00:10:01.120
And there are there's not one absolute authority that says definitively this is what will happen when you hit this number.
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:04.960
But below 300 million, it starts to get more difficult to pump it out.
00:10:05.039 --> 00:10:06.320
We're well below 300 million now.
00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:07.840
We're about 285 million.
00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:08.320
Okay.
00:10:08.720 --> 00:10:21.360
And if you hit 250 million, there are people who do this for a living and have been doing this for a living for many, many years who say you're starting to get into the integrity of the salt caverns when you start depleting it this much.
00:10:21.519 --> 00:10:27.120
Now, Trump administration officials will say we can fill it with water and water and oil, they don't mix with that.
00:10:27.759 --> 00:10:37.679
Um, but we're getting to the point now of how much of a shock absorber do we really have for the price of oil given how much we've drained our own reserves.
00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:38.159
Okay.
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:39.279
So wow, I didn't understand.
00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:40.639
I guess I didn't realize that.
00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:46.960
When you said barrels of oil, I assume they were actual barrels, but we're just pumping oil into caverns.
00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:48.320
Salt caverns underground.
00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.879
And as it depletes, obviously there's probably some structural or integrity there.
00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:56.320
When you think about oil, there's two places that you can get it, right?
00:10:56.399 --> 00:10:59.279
You can get it from the well or you can get it from inventories.
00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:01.120
And we have been draining.
00:11:01.200 --> 00:11:09.759
Now, no one will tell you that just because we tap into six million barrels of oil in a week, that that you know is a game changer in the world.
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:10.480
It's not.
00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:13.120
But it does relieve some supply pressure.
00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:31.360
And it's also this sort of perception of in markets and in markets perceptions a lot that the United States is doing what it can coordinated with other you know countries to mitigate what's happening there in the Strait of Hormuz and maybe the Saudi Arabian pipeline that we saw got it get attacked over the weekend.
00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:33.679
But you can only do that for so long.
00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:38.159
There's only so much inventory, and we're getting now to these critical thresholds.
00:11:38.320 --> 00:11:45.679
In fact, we've been averaging about four to five million barrels of oil being drawn out of the reserves per week now for a while.
00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:47.600
Last week was 1.2 million.
00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:49.200
So really cut down.
00:11:49.360 --> 00:11:50.799
Now, what's the reason for that?
00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:54.320
Are we getting to the point where it's harder to get it out, harder to pump it out?
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:57.600
Are we getting to the point where we're concerned about the structural integrity?
00:11:57.759 --> 00:11:58.720
Maybe, maybe not.
00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:00.559
Maybe this is just contract timing.
00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.120
We'll find out this week when we get the most updated report.
00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:03.519
Yeah.
00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:12.399
For mortgages, it's not like the price of oil drives mortgage rates, but you hit the nail on the head when you said oil, the price of oil is incredibly inflationary.
00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:19.679
It's oil's in everything, it's in the asphalt, it's in our clothes, it's in our shoes, it's not just what goes in our cars and our airplanes.
00:12:19.840 --> 00:12:20.720
Just ask the landman.
00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:21.120
That's right.
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:21.919
And he'll tell you.
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:22.879
That's right.
00:12:23.120 --> 00:12:27.679
And so as inflation goes up, we know that's bad for bonds, that's bad for mortgage rates.
00:12:27.840 --> 00:12:29.519
It's yet another headwind for us.
00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:30.240
Yeah.
00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:33.519
So, I mean, you you've always got an opinion.
00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:38.639
So I I mean, obviously, you, you know, there's nothing we can do to stop the conflict, right?
00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:39.120
Right.
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:44.240
But what are some things that we could do to maybe help the situation?
00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:47.360
Or is this just the new normal for a period of time?
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:49.919
And I when I say new normal, like rates in the sevens, right?
00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:51.919
Are we just we camped here for a while?
00:12:52.159 --> 00:13:00.240
Uh I think I when I look out at the landscape and I look at the next six months, I ask myself, what's realistically going to change?
00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:02.879
Um, and I don't see a lot there.
00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:09.440
Matter of fact, I see some levers that we're not going to be able to pull anymore, like tapping into the strategic petroleum reserves.
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:13.759
Um, I think the Fed raising the Fed funds rate is a good sign.
00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:15.279
I think the market will welcome that.
00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.879
I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a half-point Fed funds rate hike.
00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.360
I think the market might respond possibly to that as well.
00:13:21.519 --> 00:13:23.120
We'll have to wait and see.
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:31.840
There are some who would argue that, you know, that the Fed is creating its own inflation by keeping borrowing costs high.
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:36.559
I think until you get like one of your mandates is price stability.
00:13:36.879 --> 00:13:39.360
Until you get price stability, you haven't gotten it.
00:13:39.519 --> 00:13:42.080
I'm a big believer that until something happens, it hasn't happened.
00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:45.919
And what next month will be 66 consecutive months.
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:48.240
That's a really long time to not do your job.
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:48.480
Yeah.
00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:56.799
How many of us out there could not do our job if we had two jobs and you didn't do one of them for 66 consecutive months, would that be considered successful?
00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:57.360
Yeah.
00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:02.159
Uh but back to your question of where's the relief or are we going to be in the sevens?
00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:09.279
Unfortunately, I think this is our new normal, at least, you know, for the next, you know, foreseeable future.
00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:09.759
Okay.
00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:28.000
Now, if Iran cries uncle and it's over there, or if we simply decide there are only two paths forward boots on the ground that the American people are not going to tolerate, or we're just going to have to take the off-ramp and call this Vietnam part two, then maybe that changes things too.
00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:30.480
Um, but I tend to look at these things not politically.
00:14:30.639 --> 00:14:32.399
I look at them through the lens of housing.
00:14:32.559 --> 00:14:34.960
If there's a party that I belong to, it's the housing party.
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:36.240
Yes, yeah, me, I'm with you.
00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:36.480
Yeah.
00:14:36.879 --> 00:14:42.480
When I look at interest rates in the sevens, and we feel like we're going to be here for a period of time.
00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:49.679
Listen, we've been through difficult seasons in our industry before in real estate and in and in mortgage.
00:14:49.919 --> 00:14:55.759
But the last time we went through this, which I'm going to equate to like 08, 9, and 10, we had really good rates.
00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:57.039
Right.
00:14:57.200 --> 00:15:00.639
What what should we expect different out of that season?
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.720
I feel like this one's lasted longer, first of all.
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:02.960
Right.
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:05.039
And it looks like it'll continue to.
00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:08.639
Um, but two totally different markets, but both equally as tough.
00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:13.840
Well, I think the difference now, and you hit the nail on the head, we're not in a recession.
00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:14.320
Yeah.
00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:19.440
Um, the the United States economy is not really in a perilous place.
00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:22.000
When you look at jobless claims, pretty low.
00:15:22.320 --> 00:15:24.799
Look at unemployment, we're 4.1% unemployment.
00:15:25.200 --> 00:15:31.120
Now, yeah, we could our labor force participation rate could be better, um, you know, but but GDP's still growing.
00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:35.759
Obviously, the stock market's not the economy, but the stock market is certainly doing fine.
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:48.159
I think that there's this element of things that can be changed that could improve the prospects for housing, but they're gonna require us to make some changes.
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.600
And and I'll we'll point to let's go back to that existing home sales report.
00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:52.000
Okay.
00:15:52.240 --> 00:16:01.679
When you look at the low end, right, uh, the the first-time home buyer region of zero to 350 or 400,000, these people are getting crushed.
00:16:01.919 --> 00:16:02.240
Yes.
00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:10.159
And I post this on LinkedIn every month when it comes out because I I and I tag the FHFA and I tag FHA in it.
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:16.960
And I say, tell me your affordable home programs aren't working without telling me your affordable home programs aren't working.
00:16:17.120 --> 00:16:17.440
Yes.
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:18.399
They're not working.
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:29.840
They don't hit the nail on the head and they need to be remedied because there are things that we can do to help that segment of home buyers that we're just not doing.
00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.039
And I don't know if it's a lack of knowledge or if it's a lack of will.
00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:35.039
Either way, it's unacceptable.
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:35.279
Yeah.
00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:35.919
Either way.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:36.320
Yeah.
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:36.879
Yeah.
00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:44.480
I think that goes back to we've had this conversation on previous episodes where we've talked about the difference between the haves and the have nots, right?
00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:47.519
And that there's this degrading of the middle class in our country.
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:56.399
You know, one of the things I always look at from like a recessionary standpoint or an inflation standpoint, and this is this is Brian level economics, which holds no bearing.
00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.559
So here's what it is.
00:16:58.799 --> 00:17:03.840
When I want to go to dinner on any given night, how long do I have to wait for a table?
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:11.680
If I'm showing up to a restaurant and there's a wait for a table, most of us are probably doing pretty good.
00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:23.519
But when I start to show up at restaurants and I can walk out, right, especially on like a Friday night or Saturday night and get a table, I start to use that as a measure of how is the economy doing.
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:23.920
Yeah.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:30.559
And I'm starting to be able to walk into restaurants on a Friday and Saturday night and eat wherever I want without a weight.
00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:32.000
This is the real danger.
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:36.079
What you're getting to is I think something that doesn't get talked about enough.
00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:41.359
This is the real danger of allowing to inflation to of allowing inflation to persist as long as we have.
00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:46.079
The most recent report on uh PCE is like 3.4%, right?
00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:48.000
3.4% year over year.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.279
Wage growth, hourly earnings, wage growth, 3.1%.
00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000
If you adjust nominal wage growth for inflation, we're going backwards.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.160
We're losing purchasing power.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:17:58.400
Yeah.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:17:59.759
And inflation does that.
00:17:59.920 --> 00:18:05.599
Inflation erodes a consumer or a citizen's ability to feel like they're getting anywhere.
00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:06.640
Like they're getting ahead.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.799
And this sense of hopelessness starts to set in.
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:09.200
Yeah, right.
00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:10.079
Of why try?
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:10.960
The why try.
00:18:11.039 --> 00:18:15.839
You want to know one of the reasons why I think the labor force participation rate is the same level it was in 1976?
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.200
Is because I think there's this degree of hopelessness out there about it.
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.000
It's not the only reason, but I think it is a reason.
00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:24.480
This is why the Fed has to get this is what we do have to do.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:33.839
That's the feeling of I'm making more money, I'm getting raises, but I'm still struggling or still can't afford to still can't get over the next hump or whatever it is.
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:34.880
I can't afford that home.
00:18:34.960 --> 00:18:36.400
I can't afford that new car.
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.880
The price of goods has to get stabilized, and that is the Fed's domain.
00:18:40.960 --> 00:18:45.599
Uh, and certainly, you know, the Fed has a dual mandate: price stability and maximum employment.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:49.119
4.1% unemployment, you're at maximum employment.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:53.119
The Fed needs to do what it needs to do to get price stability there.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:19:05.519
And not just if we trim out energy and not just if we trim out food, and not like if I exclude this or exclude that, I think it's get there for one month, then two months, then three months.
00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:07.839
Let consumers feel like they're getting ahead.
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:10.880
And and not just lip service, let them get ahead, right?
00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:11.839
Let them catch up.
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:12.160
Yeah.
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:12.720
All right.
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.240
So let me shift gears a little bit.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:19.680
And we've kind of talked about what's happening, how it's happening, why it's happening.
00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:21.759
Let's talk a little bit about what do we do now.
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.319
And I mean from the standpoint of, you know, you you we're in we're lenders, right?
00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:32.880
And um, so not from a comp from a what should lenders as companies be doing?
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:42.079
What should loan officers be doing to put themselves in a position to have the success that they continue to want to have, knowing that the headwinds are as strong as they are.
00:19:42.319 --> 00:19:42.960
Right.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:45.119
Well, it's going to be fiercely competitive.
00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:47.279
We know there's going to be a lot of margin compression.
00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:52.799
You're going to have to have policies in place that allow you some flexibility on that.
00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.400
Um, I'll let you let lenders interpret that on their own.
00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.319
I don't think um lenders are any different than individuals.
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:08.960
And what I've always subscribed to as a hundred percent commissioned salesperson is 12 months of living expenses, all living expenses sitting in a savings account somewhere.
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:12.799
Just so you can put your head on the pillow at night and be comfortable.
00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:13.039
Okay.
00:20:13.279 --> 00:20:22.480
If if you haven't gotten there, you got to make it a point to get there because it protects you in times like these when you might have a stinker or two coming along the tracks for you.
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.640
We're about to, I mean, next month is Q4.
00:20:24.880 --> 00:20:25.759
We're going to be in Q4.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:27.519
We know what happens in housing in Q4.
00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:29.440
Slows down and it gets even worse in Q1.
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:30.079
That's right.
00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:40.079
So one of the one of the things that I would say to I think LO's and knowing the headwinds that we're facing and what a couple of months are ahead of us is, you know, you probably ought to look at your personal spending as well.
00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:40.400
Sure.
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:40.720
Right.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:46.000
As being a hundred percent commissioned salespeople like we are, we're going to make less.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:51.759
You know, hopefully you've built in enough margin in your budget that you're not living paycheck to paycheck as it is.
00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:58.880
But you need to be mindful of what your spending is going to look like over the next five or six months to get through this season.
00:20:59.200 --> 00:21:06.559
Man, I say this from an individual perspective for me and my household and the people that I love and that are my family.
00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:14.160
I say this from a company perspective, and I say this from an industry and even a United States perspective.
00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:19.359
It is always, always uh a good time to be fiscally disciplined.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:24.079
There's never a time where you go, you know what, we shouldn't be fiscally disciplined.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:29.599
Because being fiscally disciplined in the good times helps you survive the downtimes.
00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:29.839
Yeah.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:35.200
And we are in a downtime, and I fear we are going to stay in one more than likely for the balance of 2026.
00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:43.839
And so having that cushion, having that ability to go, man, if I only do two loans next month or three loans next month, it's okay.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:45.759
You know, I knew this was coming.
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:46.799
I planned for it.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.319
We set this money aside.
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:48.640
Yeah.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:50.319
And I might have to tap into it.
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:51.279
Or maybe you don't.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:56.079
Maybe you you're able to just make it work, but at least you know you've got it if you need it.
00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:56.559
No.
00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:58.079
I think that's I mean, that's strong advice.
00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:05.359
And I one of the things I want to be careful of is like, Not, I don't want to instill fear out there in the marketplace because I certainly don't think it's that dire.
00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:09.119
Yeah, but I think there's to your point, there's a time to be responsible.
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:15.200
It's really all of the time, maybe just being a little bit more re fiscally responsible, you know, right now.
00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:19.119
Um, let me ask you this from like a marketing perspective, yeah.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:19.440
Right.
00:22:19.519 --> 00:22:25.039
So I I just brought up, hey, like LOs, maybe you should take a look at watching your shekels for a little bit of time.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:31.519
Should I also make the same distinction in my marketing dollars or my marketing spin?
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:36.880
Do you think it's it's better right now to maybe hold back a little bit or to throttle a little bit?
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:38.000
Well, a lot depends.
00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:43.359
If you have saved and you do have the nest egg set aside, man, this might be a time for market share for you.
00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:43.680
Right.
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.000
I mean, uh, this is the back to the Warren Buffett thing.
00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:47.359
You're buying when everyone else is selling.
00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:47.680
Sure.
00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:50.079
And that's a that's a nice opportunity for you.
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:54.640
If you didn't put yourself in that position, then yeah, you can't be speculative with your marketing dollars.
00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:56.160
You're gonna have to go tried and true.
00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:01.759
Uh, in other words, if you're dealing with one of your best referral partners and they want you to spot, yeah, you got to do that thing.
00:23:01.839 --> 00:23:02.000
Yeah.
00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:10.799
If it's I'm gonna take a flyer on a brand new piece of you know, marketing technology that I've never tried before, well, then maybe that one will have to be the one that you set aside.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:11.039
Yeah.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:17.680
But like anything, if you prepared for it, now might be a time for you to actually make hay.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:18.240
Yeah.
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:18.720
Yeah.
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:19.839
Yeah, I think so too.
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.960
I I think there's a good opportunity here to pick up market share.
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:35.759
When you look at it over the history of our business, if I looked at the last 20, 25 years, on a down market is typically when either loan originators or companies have grown the most.
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:36.559
Right.
00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:43.519
So meaning like they've had their largest increase in sales during some of those most some of those most challenging times.
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:46.640
I think it's just looking at the business a little bit different.
00:23:46.799 --> 00:23:54.640
There are some that are going to hold completely back, and there are some that, hey, let's make sure we're using our um our resources the right way.
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.640
And it's not just finances, I think it's your your time as well, right?
00:23:58.960 --> 00:24:06.960
There's a there's a thing here, I didn't mean to step on you, but there's a there's a thing here to think about as a business owner, particularly in the IMB space, but really all mortgage lenders.
00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:10.720
Number one, no one moves when their pipeline is full.
00:24:10.960 --> 00:24:12.960
So we know a lot of pipelines are low.
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:16.160
There's probably going to be some opportunities to recruit if you're looking to grow.
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:16.640
100%.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:27.759
So you can get some good organic growth by going after the right producers because maybe they're a little more apt to being picked off right now or to being lured over right now, particularly heading into the slower months.
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:34.720
But you better have your technology stack wired up tight and it better be something that stands out in the marketplace.
00:24:35.039 --> 00:24:41.599
You don't want some jankety pieces of software that don't communicate well with each other when you're sitting down at that recruiting meeting.
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:46.960
It better be elegant, it better be mobile, optimized, but they better look at it and go, I haven't seen that anywhere else.
00:24:47.119 --> 00:24:47.359
Yeah.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:47.680
Yeah.
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:48.000
Yeah.
00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:51.519
Cause I think in that space, you're looking, how do I make people's lives easier?
00:24:51.839 --> 00:24:52.240
Right.
00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:55.759
Um, when a lot of things around them feels harder.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:56.319
Right.
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:58.160
I think there's a perception of that.
00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:07.839
It may not always be reality, but if you can show them, hey, listen, what what we have is going to make your life just a little bit simpler than what maybe you have right now.
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:19.759
I think Mark, we talked about this too, kind of on the ride over here is um now is also the time to make sure that you're investing in the folks that you have because attrition could be really real in a market like this too.
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:20.319
100%.
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:20.880
Yeah.
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:25.519
There's that whole, you know, you're looking out there thinking there's opportunity, but you better be minding your own store.
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:25.759
Yeah.
00:25:26.000 --> 00:25:26.240
Yeah.
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:26.640
Yeah.
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:34.160
It's the uh you know the old saying, like you got to put a hedge of protection around what you have while also being very intentional about, you know, growth during the season.
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:41.839
And I think for a lot of companies and a lot of people, this could be very exciting, even though it feels like there's a lot of headwinds in in front of us.
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:42.640
Yeah.
00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:49.039
It is uh so you know, the first house I ever bought, well, I uh I was at seven and seven eighths was my rate.
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:51.519
And there was not one conversation about rate.
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:54.079
There wasn't one conversation about shopping or any of that.
00:25:54.160 --> 00:25:56.480
And I know the price of homes has gone up over the years.
00:25:56.559 --> 00:25:56.720
Yeah.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:00.079
We all, all of us, loan originators too, me, I do.
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:10.319
Uh certainly the my customers and my clients and my referral partners, everybody remembers the 14-year window of 2008 to 2022 and how good it was for how long it was.
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:18.960
Interest rates are certainly higher than anybody would like, but they're they're not so high that it means that the market is gonna be dead.
00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.000
There's going to be people buying for sure.
00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:27.759
Um we have to look at it and go who's getting squeezed out and who's gonna be buying, and then position yourself accordingly.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:32.000
This is where the bridge loan program, the move up buyer, yeah, becomes a big focus for us.
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.799
Unfortunately, that lower end buyer is gonna get squeezed out.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:53.839
So man, any other thoughts on uh you know what I would say to anyone looking at this market is now whenever you get slow in something and you know that's still your passion and you you still want to pursue it, now's the time to refine and improve.
00:26:54.319 --> 00:26:54.480
Right.
00:26:55.039 --> 00:26:56.559
How are you quoting your clients?
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.160
Could you improve that process?
00:26:58.240 --> 00:26:59.440
How are you how's your follow-up?
00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:00.720
Could you improve that process?
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:01.759
Because you have time now.
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:03.599
You have time to really get objective.
00:27:03.680 --> 00:27:06.000
I think I sent you last week, I think it was Friday.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:07.279
Yeah, I sent you last week.
00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:09.440
Here's how I'm quoting my clients.
00:27:09.599 --> 00:27:09.759
Yes.
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:11.519
Be my critic.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:12.799
Don't affirm me.
00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.039
Tell me where I could do it better, right?
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:21.039
When and you got into the whole thing about the paying the points or not paying the points, spend a little bit more time there, talk them through that, right?
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:21.519
Yeah.
00:27:21.920 --> 00:27:25.200
And I think that's a great exercise for anybody in sales.
00:27:25.359 --> 00:27:31.119
Go ahead and use this time to make your machinery of how you do things to make it even cleaner, even better.
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:37.839
Yeah, I think for that I've always said, like, when you're winning at a high level, you're not growing a lot of times.
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:44.240
Because like think think about that time in 2020, 2021 where like you could go to lunch and come back and have five loans, right?
00:27:44.400 --> 00:27:46.400
Like you weren't doing anything special.
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:48.000
I wasn't doing anything special.
00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.440
We were just, man, we were just trying to take advantage of the market that we're in.
00:27:51.599 --> 00:27:51.839
Right.
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:56.240
Because it was so easy, we weren't getting better at what we do.
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:56.720
Yep.
00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:08.000
But to your point, when it gets a little bit more challenging, now I'm now I'm more likely to get a little bit more critical of my own business and figure out, hey, where can I get better?
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:09.279
Yeah, where can I improve?
00:28:09.440 --> 00:28:12.240
When things are going swimmingly, we don't look at it like that.
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:12.640
Right.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:13.039
We don't.
00:28:13.200 --> 00:28:17.279
I'm gonna I'll we're we're gonna sign off here in a minute, but I want to leave you with a little ray of sunshine.
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.160
I don't normally do that.
00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:18.640
I love it.
00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:20.240
I'm not normally the ray of sunshine guy.
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:22.400
Come on, come on, but I'm gonna hit you with it.
00:28:22.720 --> 00:28:32.880
Some of not some, almost all of the most wonderful things that have ever happened to me in my life happened as a result of something that I perceived at the time was absolutely terrible.
00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:34.000
Yes, 9-11.
00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:35.200
Which was absolutely terrible.
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:36.319
And we just lived through the end of the year.
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.279
Yeah, we just lived through it.
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:42.400
But had not, had not, I'm probably still an airline pilot, had 9-11 not happened.
00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:47.599
9-11 stripped away a lot of the reasons why I wanted to be an airline pilot.
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:47.839
Yeah.
00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:55.200
And so it you know, catapulted me into this industry that I have loved and has been so good to me over this this time period.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:57.039
Even I'll go, I'll go personal.
00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:06.880
Uh, you know, was unable to have children with my my with my first wife, and we wound up having to go through this in vitro process that was so emotionally taxing.
00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:11.839
But out of that, I get my twins and who are you know, I love more than life itself.
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:22.799
These things that we go through throughout the course of our lives and our careers, at the time that we perceive them, we perceive them one way, either positively or negatively, it almost is never quite as we perceive them.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:24.240
And this time won't be any different than that.
00:29:24.400 --> 00:29:26.079
Yeah, man, I can totally agree with that.
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:28.799
I think for me, I got into this industry, something similar.
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:38.000
Like I was in a different industry before, something not awesome happened, and I land here and I'm like, wow, this is the greatest business ever.
00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:39.279
I absolutely love it.
00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:41.519
Um, I've said I've said it on this podcast before.
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:48.000
I we you and I don't even get an opportunity to meet if I didn't go through a challenging period, you know, a little over than three and a half years ago.
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:48.319
Sure.
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:53.200
So at the time, that felt absolutely like this is the worst thing ever.
00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:57.839
And on the flip side of that, three years later, um, man, I couldn't be happier.
00:29:58.079 --> 00:30:00.480
The hard stuff puts you in the crucible.
00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:00.799
Yes.
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:02.400
And the crucible is uncomfortable.
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:05.599
Crucible is where change happens, it's where metamorphosis happens.
00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:08.960
And it it is never a comforting time to be in the crucible.
00:30:09.279 --> 00:30:14.240
And you always exit out of it a different human being than you were when you went into it.
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:14.640
Yeah.
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:16.480
That's what the opportunity is in this time.
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:22.720
And I remember looking through that period of time, um, you know, three and a half, about three and a half years ago is when I when I lost my job at another lender.
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:24.880
And I looked at a lot of things in my life.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:32.480
Um, and it wasn't like, hey, what could I do better in the role that I served in that company because I would knew I would serve in a similar role in the next one.
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:35.759
So it was a time for me to look back and be like, what did I do well?
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:37.119
What didn't I do well?
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:38.960
What are you going to do different this time?
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:39.359
Right.
00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:41.359
Um, I looked at the way I spent money.
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:41.920
Yeah.
00:30:42.079 --> 00:30:45.920
Um, you know, because I was also at a point where now income isn't coming in.
00:30:46.160 --> 00:30:49.119
Um, I looked at, you know, uh my health.
00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:54.000
Like, hey, dude, were you really taking care of yourself or were you just grinding it all out all of the time?
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:54.319
Right.
00:30:54.480 --> 00:31:01.920
You know, I think those periods of time in your life are perfect for really stopping and saying, hey, what's what can I refine?
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:09.039
What can I make just a little bit better to not just get me through the season, but on the flip side of it, man, I'm just gonna be ready to ready to go.
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:12.319
And who knows, maybe we'll start like hair club for men, like the week.
00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:13.200
That would be, yeah.
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:13.920
That, you know.
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:18.480
Well, listen, thanks for tuning in into another episode of the Ground Game Podcast.
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.960
Uh, listen, we would we'd love your comments.
00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:27.200
Um, if you've got an idea of a future episode that you may like us to talk about, put that in the comments too.
00:31:27.279 --> 00:31:30.880
And hey, if we use your idea, maybe we even have a little gift for you.