Inside Norfolk Fire & Rescue: Traditions, Challenges, and Future

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Welcome to the First Responders Podcast, the podcast for first responders made by first responders.
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Now for your host, Brian Miller, a retired first responder with over 25 years of experience.
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All right, you're back with the First Responders Podcast. This is Brian.
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I am on the phone this time with Chief Williams from Norfolk Fire and Rescue.
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Before Chief gets on here, I just want to say, in the interest of transparency,
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my dad was a Norfolk firefighter for 30 years.
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That department played a huge part in my life growing up because not only was
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my dad a firefighter, my mother worked at the Norfolk Fire Department Credit
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Union for close to 40 years, if I remember right.
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So, you know, that department has played a big part in my life.
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And I still, when I get to Norfolk, every time I see one of those Indians or
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one of those Norfolk medics, I swell up a little bit thinking about my folks.
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All right. Good morning, Chief. How are you, sir? Good morning,
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Brian. Great. Thank you. How are you doing today? I am doing well, sir. Doing well. So...
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Like I told you before, this is an information thing and a recruiting thing.
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So everybody I talk to gets the same set of questions.
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We'll be 15, 20, maybe 25 minutes.
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But, Chief, if you could tell me first a little bit about the city of Norfolk
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and the department that serves it.
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Okay. Well, as you know, I'm sure you're well familiar with the city of Norfolk.
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We've got about 250,000, 260,000 residents here in the city.
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It's a very old city as far as it goes on the East Coast here.
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And our department is actually one of the older departments in the nation.
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We're just over 150 years old.
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It was started back in 1871, which is a long time ago.
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Yeah, and you know, on the other end of the spectrum, the other day I interviewed
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one of the fire marshals from Chesapeake, and that department was,
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what, 50, 60 years old. It's a big time gap.
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Yeah, we've got a lot of tradition in this department. We still have one of
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the older fire stations,
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and we still are using it today, but right down the street from it,
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we have a brand new one being built, and we expect it to be ready to be moved
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into by the end of this September.
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So we're getting close to moving out of that old station, which is one of the
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original horse and buggy stations.
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We've only got two left of those, but yeah, so that's kind of exciting for us.
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But yes, to get back to that, we are a very, very old traditional fire department.
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We've got 14 fire stations, and we run three shifts with just over 500 sworn
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members on our department.
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Wow. And you do the 24-hour shifts, correct? Yes, sir. We do 24-hour shifts.
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Our shifts are actually from 7 a.m. to 7 a.m..
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We are a split department of fire and medics, and we just recently, this year,
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started hiring for what we call paramedic-only positions because there is a
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demand right now for the paramedics for that level of EMS certification.
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We're finding that a lot of our members, it's very difficult for them to go
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back to school and get that certification.
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And some just don't want to because it is a very challenging position.
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But we are trying to adapt and overcome the shortage.
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And we just started hiring paramedic onlys. And right now, currently, we have 12 of them.
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And we're looking to just add a few more and see how that goes.
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You know, that was a conversation my dad and I had often because,
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you know, he went in in 1963 or 64 when they were doing the,
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God, what was it, 24 on, 24 off or ever.
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I mean, that old schedule was brutal. But we would always have the conversation
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because I got started late in life. I was, I think I was 34 or 35 when I went
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through my EMT training down in North Carolina.
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And decided to come home and try to follow dad into the fire department.
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But I had some back and neck problems. I was out of the running early,
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but we always had that conversation about medics and firefighters being two
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different types of people.
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And, you know, the old guys, like my dad, didn't want anything to do with being a medic.
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And back then, the medics didn't want anything to do with being firefighters.
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So that was always a good conversation.
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And I think we're finding out these years later that it's true to a certain
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extent. I think you're right.
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I think that's, unfortunately, when we merged back in the day when we were Norfolk
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Fire Department and Norfolk Paramedical Services and we merged,
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there were a lot of people forced into a situation they didn't want to be in.
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And, you know, a lot of the departments in the nation did the same thing because it saves money.
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But now we're going back to the way it was.
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It's almost like where we are realizing that there are people that don't want
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to do certain things anymore.
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And after COVID, I think the mentality is, especially for the younger generation,
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that life is too short. I'm not going to do something I don't want to do.
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And that's what we're facing right now. Yeah, it's a dilemma.
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And it was, you know, I, I'm old enough when my dad, you know,
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my dad went from Norfolk fire to what was Norfolk fire and paramedical services at one time.
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And he would, I don't know what that all that means. I'm a firefighter,
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yada, yada. Didn't want anything to do with that medical stuff.
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So tell me about, I know you, I know you guys, you're firefighters,
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the fire department first, but what other specialty units do you guys have?
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So we have, well, being surrounded by water, we have a pretty robust water rescue
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program, which we call, what we call is a VOP or vessel operator program.
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So there's, you know, a lot of training goes into that because we have a couple of,
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we have two 32-foot fire rescue boats that have pump capabilities up to 1,500
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gallons per minute with a bunch of lifesaving equipment on them.
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And we also have equipment that can monitor and detect nuclear and biological
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and chemical emergencies, which was a grant through the Navy because of,
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you know, we cover the Navy base.
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So we've got some really high specialty equipment on those vessels just because
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of the proximity to the Naval base here.
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We've got a pretty robust technical rescue program here, which is combined with
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our hazardous material specialists as well.
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So we have two rescue companies. One's located at Station 1 downtown,
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and the other one's Station 14 by the airport.
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Oh, God. You know, my dad spent years at 14 and actually loved that station
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because they stayed moving, man.
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And nothing's changed. I just
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spent four years there before I came into my position that I'm in now.
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And the nickname is called The Nuthouse because it never stops.
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Every now and again, I'd go home and my wife would say, how was your night?
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And I'd say, well, I didn't have any calls, but I'd never got a minute of sleep
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because the bell just keeps going off there. It doesn't matter who it's for.
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That place is literally a nut house. Yes, sir, it is.
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So tell me about, I'm not sure we have fire marshals and all that too, correct?
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We do. Yeah, we have a full fire prevention program. We have a public education program.
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Our training department is pretty large right now. We're running two academies a year out of that.
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So we run a fire academy basically starting one every six months.
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So we have to consistently rotate people from the street into the fire academy
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to maintain that recruitment level.
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And then in our administrative positions, you know, we've got our logistics,
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which has expanded over the years to two major full-size warehouses full of
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spare apparatus and equipment and all the specialty stuff that we need to get nowadays.
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Wow. So you touched on the academy.
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Yeah. Tell me real, real briefly about, cause I'm sure you guys are shorthanded, right?
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We, we are, but not as bad as.
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Some of the other departments that you may hear of, we, you know,
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it's, it's, it's one of those fluctuations where we graduate in academy and
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we put 25 to 30 people on the street and we think we're back to normal.
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And then we have those members that are eligible for retirement that we weren't
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expecting and they just decide to, to retire.
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So, you know, it's, it's just such an up down flow of, of, of recruitment versus
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holding onto our people.
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And so right now we are, I want to say we are right around 45 people short,
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but we have, no, it's not, but it's enough, you know, in summertime right now,
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everybody wants to take their vacations.
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Plus we've got a few injuries. so with
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that being said we do run into a situation
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where we have to do a lot
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of overtime for people to make sure we staff our we never what what departments
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refer to as run short we never run short we never put a truck out of service
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and never run a truck short staff we are always fully staffed on every truck
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no matter what we do whether it means people can't go home in the morning is how we do it.
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So we do make sure we provide the service, a consistent service to the cities,
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as well as making sure we keep our members safe by having the right manpower on each truck.
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Very cool. So how is, I know, like the application process, you guys are short.
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Are y'all in the hiring process now?
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So it's what we used to hire once every two years.
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We're basically now, we're now, we are now trying to basically hire consistently.
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We, we seem to have an open, open application process all the time.
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Like I said, we're, we started that new paramedic only program.
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Yeah. So we're trying to pick up.
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People that are certified paramedics where we can throw them right onto the
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street without minimal training and minimal downtime.
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We're also looking for firefighters that are certified so we can bring them
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in and not have to put them through a nine-month fire academy.
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We can teach them the Norfolk way in a few weeks and then get them out there.
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But it's slim pickings, unfortunately.
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So your academy is nine months long? It is about nine months long.
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The application process is unfortunately almost just as long as the fire academy.
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Yeah, by the time we test them, get the applications in,
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test them, put them through the fingerprinting and the polygraphs and everything
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else, and the medical physical to make sure that they're eligible for the position,
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it is probably close to six months, seven months of a process.
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So are you getting interest?
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I know I heard a thing from, I think it was Portsmouth Police or fire a couple
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of months ago, actually had to delay a hiring process because they weren't getting enough applicants.
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No, we're very fortunate. We're fortunate that we, on average,
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get 300 to 400 applicants every time we put a process through.
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I'm sure you remember the days and I'm trying to remember what year it was it
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was the early 90s before my back problems started I took the test for Norfolk,
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And I believe they tested, I think, if I remember right, it was 1,200 or 1,300 for 10 or 15 jobs.
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That's what it was when I came in. I want to say it was about 1,500 people.
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We took our tests at Norfolk Scope. Yep, that's where I took mine.
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Yeah, there were so many people and there was less openings and more people applying.
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But yeah, and again, I am not blaming the younger generation.
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I think they just have a different outlook on life. Yep, exactly.
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And I think it's just harder to find people that want to do this job.
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And like you, I grew up in a fire department family.
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That's all I knew. My dad was a firefighter for 32 years. Oh, okay.
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So that's kind of all I knew. And I know there's a lot of other firefighters
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in our department that are legacy members.
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I know several chiefs that I grew up running around the ball fields with when
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our dads were playing ball. Yeah, it is. Yeah, exactly.
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So that's just harder to find nowadays.
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And it's also harder to find somebody who will stay on the job for 30 years, a lot of them. Oh, I know.
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That blows my mind. Yeah.
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It's a more transient workforce nowadays.
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They want to get five, six years in and say that they've crossed that off their
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bucket list and move on to something different.
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I had a friend back in the nineties when I, I was a volunteer firefighter down
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in North Carolina and I was going through training down there.
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And, uh, one of the guys that I was training with, he was actually going to
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be a paid firefighter and his philosophy was, eh, I'll just do this till I find something better.
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And me, I was like, there is nothing better than being a firefighter.
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But, you know, it didn't work out for me. I ended up in the sheriff's office.
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So, you know, public servants, raised public servants is the way it looks.
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I think that's, I think you're right there. That's for sure.
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We just had a, we just had a member retire the other day with 25 years on the job.
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And we were all talking about how fast your career goes by and how amazing the job still is.
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Even, even to this day, I don't, you know, there's not many people that retire
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out of this job bitter in the work.
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Place they they retire and miss it well i
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can i can tell you coming from 25 20 years
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of law enforcement i don't miss the job i miss the people man i because you
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know the stressful jobs that like you and i have it's the people around you
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that that gets you through definitely and you know second family yeah people
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love firefighters and people love medics but they don't think much of cops at all.
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Yeah, the environment for that has changed, that's for sure.
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Yeah, it's only been the last few years. I wouldn't trade my 20 years with the
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sheriff's office for anything.
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So let's touch a little bit on, all right, so the application process.
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Tell me a little bit about the academy. We know it's nine months.
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Is it still Tywater Regional?
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It is Hampton Roads Regional now. It's kind of merged over.
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They switched names. Same premise You go in there and depending on How.
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How we coordinate it, whether you do the EMS side first or the fire side first,
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typically it's about maybe three to four months of fire, and then it's about
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four to five months of medical.
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The medical is much more academically challenging, and the fire portion is much
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more physically challenging.
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So we try to, once you get in the academy, it's a very tough nine months of work and training.
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And we try to get everybody medically and physically and mentally,
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sorry, mentally and physically ready for the job.
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But that sometimes, you know, we do lose candidates in the academy because it's
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just not your normal job. And
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probably our success rate is probably right around 60 to 65% pass rate.
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That's very good. Yeah, and it's common. We talk to other departments around
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and we're like, are we doing something wrong?
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But no, they deal with the same thing.
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And there are some people that apply for the job and go through the whole process
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and get on, and it's their first week in the fire academy. They're like,
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this is not what I expected. Nope.
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Maybe we're just not doing a good enough job. been educating them before they
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get in the door, but I don't know how else you could do it.
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Well, I think a lot of it is, and you, like you and I both come from firefighter
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families, we knew what we were getting into before we put the application in.
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Absolutely. So we, you know, and it's not, it's not for everybody.
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You know, I know, I've known people personally to go through a fire academy
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or a police academy and quit two months after they get on the floors.
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Because they can't handle either the stress or, you know, there's an aspect
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because, you know, as well as I do that, whatever academy, whether you're a
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police officer or sheriff deputy or firefighter, you go through that academy.
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It teaches you probably 70% of what you really need to know to do the job.
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Yeah. Because once you get out there and you're in those stressful situations
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and you're dealing with the accidents and the shootings and all that,
00:18:04.590 --> 00:18:06.270
a lot of people can't handle that.
00:18:06.350 --> 00:18:10.170
You get them out of that academic setting and they're done. Right.
00:18:11.710 --> 00:18:17.910
So what is, all right, so we've talked about the application and the hiring
00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:19.410
process and the academy.
00:18:19.410 --> 00:18:23.630
What happens when they come out of the academy well
00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:26.690
when they come out of the academy what we try to
00:18:26.690 --> 00:18:31.090
do is we try to take each individual recruit
00:18:31.090 --> 00:18:34.250
and and look at their personality and
00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:39.630
how they how they manage through the academy and try to pair them up with a
00:18:39.630 --> 00:18:45.890
station that will might best suit them so that we have a higher success rate
00:18:45.890 --> 00:18:51.470
because like i said you know 14 station 14 team, the nut house, you're up all night.
00:18:52.130 --> 00:18:55.210
We're going to want somebody who did very well in the academy,
00:18:55.210 --> 00:19:03.710
looks like they would excel in a very busy station with a group that likes to train a lot.
00:19:03.830 --> 00:19:08.290
We may put somebody else that's a little more reserved in a slower,
00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:11.850
easier environment to learn the job, different station.
00:19:12.390 --> 00:19:15.910
If somebody's got strengths, like I said, water rescue strengths or swimming
00:19:15.910 --> 00:19:19.710
strengths, that their previous lifeguards or swimming instructors or anything
00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:24.330
of that, we may put them at a specialty station for the water rescue program.
00:19:24.510 --> 00:19:30.810
So we look at that to try and make sure we give them every opportunity we can
00:19:30.810 --> 00:19:32.310
to succeed in the career.
00:19:32.730 --> 00:19:36.230
So they report to duty and go to their office.
00:19:37.265 --> 00:19:41.725
We're working on what we call a Redbook, which basically helps guide them through
00:19:41.725 --> 00:19:49.165
what, you know, station life is all about and how we can train them once they're on the job.
00:19:49.265 --> 00:19:52.825
Because there's just, like you said, there's never a day you don't learn something different.
00:19:53.445 --> 00:19:56.665
And we try to make sure we cover all that for them.
00:19:56.945 --> 00:20:02.045
Yeah, and that's one of the goals of this podcast is to let the public know.
00:20:02.045 --> 00:20:07.085
So, you know, I remember my dad saying that the people used to fuss about them
00:20:07.085 --> 00:20:10.005
sitting around the fire station playing dominoes because that's what they did
00:20:10.005 --> 00:20:13.225
in the 60s and 70s, you know, before the EMS.
00:20:13.485 --> 00:20:18.985
But, you know, part of what I want to do here is get the public and give them
00:20:18.985 --> 00:20:23.185
some knowledge as to is we're not just sitting around a fire station watching TV.
00:20:23.445 --> 00:20:26.305
You know, there's training going on and everything.
00:20:27.725 --> 00:20:33.745
So, but you, so the specialty units, the fire marshals, the boats,
00:20:33.925 --> 00:20:36.845
can you go to one of those units right out of the academy?
00:20:37.385 --> 00:20:43.505
You can, if you exhibit some of those skills right off the bat.
00:20:43.885 --> 00:20:48.085
Like I said, if you, you know, say you, you're a previous Navy diver or previous
00:20:48.085 --> 00:20:51.605
lifeguard, if you show those skills and, and, you know,
00:20:51.945 --> 00:20:56.205
we can, we may consider putting you at one of those specialty stations because
00:20:56.205 --> 00:21:01.145
the need for somebody with those specialty skills, typically, you know,
00:21:01.505 --> 00:21:07.845
we try to put new recruits into stations where they will exceed in that kind of environment.
00:21:08.145 --> 00:21:13.625
So that's, that's pretty smart. Actually, I'm, I'm sure that's gotta be some new stuff.
00:21:13.745 --> 00:21:16.825
Cause back in the day, you just got stuck somewhere and you had
00:21:16.825 --> 00:21:20.705
to deal with it until you got somewhere else yeah and
00:21:20.705 --> 00:21:25.765
we you know and again we we try to look
00:21:25.765 --> 00:21:30.265
at the the crews as well and we look at the the the recruit and and what type
00:21:30.265 --> 00:21:34.685
of what type of person what type of personality they have and we look at the
00:21:34.685 --> 00:21:40.565
crew and make sure that we can try to line them up best for success because
00:21:40.565 --> 00:21:44.445
that's really what we want ultimately is for them to stay on enjoy the job and
00:21:44.445 --> 00:21:45.505
stay on the job yeah Yeah,
00:21:45.665 --> 00:21:48.785
because if you're at a miserable station, you're not going to like the job and
00:21:48.785 --> 00:21:51.225
you're definitely not going to hang around.
00:21:51.805 --> 00:21:54.885
Correct. All right, Chief, I'm going to give you one shot.
00:21:55.225 --> 00:22:00.185
I want you to give me the best recruiting pitch for the Norfolk Fire and Rescue.
00:22:00.685 --> 00:22:04.205
Tell me what you guys got that other people don't have.
00:22:05.305 --> 00:22:12.305
Well, we've got over 150 years of tradition. That is one of the things that set us up probably most,
00:22:13.103 --> 00:22:17.563
against everybody else. But if you look at the size of the city of Norfolk,
00:22:17.763 --> 00:22:23.863
it is not a very large city, but our call volume is extremely busy.
00:22:24.503 --> 00:22:31.703
And we have just the widest range of emergency calls here in the city.
00:22:31.823 --> 00:22:34.843
We have cruise ships. We have an international airport.
00:22:35.063 --> 00:22:40.023
We have several universities. We have light rail. We have waterways.
00:22:40.463 --> 00:22:43.323
I'm trying to think of what else I can throw at you there that,
00:22:43.543 --> 00:22:47.343
you know, most other cities, we have the largest naval base in the world.
00:22:47.463 --> 00:22:50.443
Now do you guys respond to? We have shipyards. Okay.
00:22:50.763 --> 00:22:52.983
So you do run calls on the Navy base?
00:22:53.343 --> 00:22:57.943
Oh yeah. We, we run, we run as, as a mutual aid with them.
00:22:58.163 --> 00:23:01.703
So if they have, if they have something on the base, we respond on the base
00:23:01.703 --> 00:23:02.883
with them to assist them.
00:23:03.243 --> 00:23:09.283
If there is something off base, but near the base, they will actually respond and assist us.
00:23:09.503 --> 00:23:15.843
Oh, okay. That's cool. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. So we've got such a wide range
00:23:15.843 --> 00:23:24.403
of emergency responses that we need to be ready for that most other cities don't have,
00:23:24.443 --> 00:23:28.123
is what my recruitment pitch would be.
00:23:28.583 --> 00:23:31.563
Well, I'll tell you, and I'm going to back you up on that, Chief.
00:23:31.863 --> 00:23:33.863
There's a lot of tradition with that department.
00:23:34.483 --> 00:23:40.903
And if I could go back and rewind the clock till I was 19, 20 years old,
00:23:41.023 --> 00:23:42.703
I would have went straight to the fire department.
00:23:42.923 --> 00:23:46.703
But then again, they were testing 2,000 people for five jobs.
00:23:46.843 --> 00:23:53.743
And I do want to ask you one thing about firefighting because you guys in Norfolk
00:23:53.743 --> 00:23:59.583
deal with something that most of the cities don't other than maybe Virginia Beach.
00:23:59.903 --> 00:24:04.583
You've got all those high rises down there. What do you guys use if you get
00:24:04.583 --> 00:24:07.083
a fire up high in one of those buildings?
00:24:07.943 --> 00:24:12.543
Well, kind of like 9-11, we take the stairs. We train hard physically.
00:24:12.563 --> 00:24:16.343
We have a fitness program in our department.
00:24:17.323 --> 00:24:22.783
Every fire station has a wide variety of fitness equipment at it to make sure
00:24:22.783 --> 00:24:29.583
that we are ready for high-rise incidents, which what we consider to be low-frequency but high-risk.
00:24:29.723 --> 00:24:35.043
Yeah, I got you, I got you. And so we try to train for that on a constant basis.
00:24:35.263 --> 00:24:42.643
We have quarterly fire drills in high-rise just to keep us up to date on all that.
00:24:42.803 --> 00:24:49.343
But yeah, like you said, they're a challenge, and we try to get through it.
00:24:49.463 --> 00:24:54.023
Well, you know, the reason I asked, I was thinking about that the other day,
00:24:54.063 --> 00:25:00.723
and I remember dad telling me one day, And this was probably hadn't the early
00:25:00.723 --> 00:25:04.643
eighties that Norfolk had come up with the, I guess, you know,
00:25:04.783 --> 00:25:09.903
I guess they were experimenting or something, but they had this thing that they
00:25:09.903 --> 00:25:11.523
were slinging from helicopters.
00:25:12.600 --> 00:25:16.520
Well, that was before my time, but we don't have anything like that.
00:25:16.740 --> 00:25:21.740
I will tell you, we do use drones like most departments, other departments do.
00:25:21.900 --> 00:25:26.760
We do use drones now in our service, but it's not for emergency response.
00:25:27.540 --> 00:25:29.760
Oh, I gotcha. I gotcha. So it
00:25:29.760 --> 00:25:33.460
would be for like an instant commander to be able to monitor a situation.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.980
But yeah, yeah. But as far as it goes, unfortunately,
00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:40.340
it's still the old fashioned fill your
00:25:40.340 --> 00:25:44.400
shoulders your shoulders and tank with equipment and do
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:47.940
it the old-fashioned way taking the stairs yeah i uh
00:25:47.940 --> 00:25:51.060
and you know you talked about september 11th 9
00:25:51.060 --> 00:25:54.260
11 and i think here's my
00:25:54.260 --> 00:26:00.020
philosophy on why you guys are having a hard time recruiting people back when
00:26:00.020 --> 00:26:03.880
you and i started you remember i don't know if you remember you're old enough
00:26:03.880 --> 00:26:10.420
to remember emergency the tv yes yeah johnny gage and johnny Gage and Roy DeSoto,
00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:12.360
everybody wanted to be a firefighter medic.
00:26:12.620 --> 00:26:19.420
And then Rescue 911 came out and everybody saw how cool it was to run lights and sirens.
00:26:19.780 --> 00:26:24.440
And then September 11th happened and New York City lost 2,000 firefighters.
00:26:25.280 --> 00:26:30.140
And I think that's, I think that also plays a part, but I think a lot of it
00:26:30.140 --> 00:26:37.180
is these, these young folks now, they're not as much into the, to the tradition of it.
00:26:37.180 --> 00:26:43.140
And they can honestly make better money working, you know, with less effort
00:26:43.140 --> 00:26:45.340
than anywhere else. Yeah, I agree.
00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:49.940
And that's it. You know, it's, I've always said, and most first responders,
00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:53.320
I think you'll probably agree, it's a calling.
00:26:53.800 --> 00:26:57.540
You know, it's not a job. It's not a job. It's calling.
00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:02.120
Absolutely. I agree with you. I discovered it late in life because there aren't many people.
00:27:02.800 --> 00:27:09.040
And I started, when I started with the sheriff's office in 2002, The pay was okay.
00:27:09.360 --> 00:27:11.640
I got into it more for the VRS benefits.
00:27:13.040 --> 00:27:19.960
But to put your life on the line for people you don't know, not everybody's going to do that.
00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:23.780
Right. You know, and like you grew up in a firefighter family.
00:27:23.940 --> 00:27:25.440
I grew up in a firefighter family.
00:27:26.060 --> 00:27:29.380
And don't hang up after I sign off. I got a story for you.
00:27:29.860 --> 00:27:34.100
But anyway, Chief, I'm going to wrap this up. It was good talking to you.
00:27:34.100 --> 00:27:37.320
I know we've been playing phone tag and email tag for a couple of weeks,
00:27:37.320 --> 00:27:39.680
and I'm glad we could make this happen.
00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:43.280
Yeah, me too. I appreciate the opportunity. All right. Don't hang up on me.
00:27:43.340 --> 00:27:45.480
I got a little bit of music still going to play, and then I'm going to stop.
00:27:45.580 --> 00:27:48.460
I'll get back to you. All right. Sounds good. Thank you. Thanks, man.
00:27:49.040 --> 00:27:53.140
You have been listening to the First Responders podcast with your host, Brian Miller.
00:27:53.640 --> 00:27:58.300
Please tune in for future episodes of this podcast. Our podcast is dedicated
00:27:58.300 --> 00:28:01.560
to the men and women who serve the public as first responders.
00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:04.140
Thank you. Bye.