From Prestige to Paychecks: How Pro Grappling Is Changing Fast (Episode 83)

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Welcome back to Fighters Drinking Coffee. We're going to talk about the greater
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landscape of jiu-jitsu, specifically around events, tournaments.
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We had ADCC, we had all these things going on, right?
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But still major events, the tournaments, the regionals, IBJJF,
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ADCC, UFC BJJ, kind of what's going on out there, right?
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So, um, one thing we were talking about before we queued up or turned on the
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recording devices was, uh,
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I feel like we aren't really seeing any hype built around any of these events.
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Um we were talking about like the fact that like we,
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we didn't even really see a whole we didn't really know who all was fighting fighting in the adcc,
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i pretty much only see that ufc bjj happened after the fact um,
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you know like oh i mean those are two like major ones one at one fc same,
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same thing i just find out that sometimes the day of or the following day when
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you see some clips oh there's so and so and so and so fought and this is the
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result it's like oh i cool i didn't know that was happening at all so um.
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Yeah it definitely seemed like with this i talked to several people about how
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adcc just sort of snuck up on people,
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We got contacted a couple of days ago from a mutual buddy of ours who was doing,
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a stream. He's like, do you guys want to do anything for UFC or for ADCC?
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And we were like, oh, fuck, that's this weekend.
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Yeah. It crept up on us. You're right. There was no big hype train for it.
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Yeah. I mean, we did an episode that we discussed it a little bit.
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I mean, it wasn't the whole core of the episode, but we talked about it.
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We accidentally pre-end ADCC. Yeah. Yeah, and then we were talking about releasing,
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and we're like, we should probably release this before ADC. And we're like,
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oh, shit, that's like in a week. We should probably put this out now.
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Yeah, so like it definitely snuck up on us. And it was also kind of weird.
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There were a lot of, well, there were people that they kicked out. Yeah.
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And there were a lot of people that just like dropped out. I mean,
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there were people that got kicked out for the reasons we talked about before.
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You know, you got like Isaac Michelle, like dudes who had invites that they
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were like, yeah actually we're gonna take those invites back because you're a bad man.
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We got enough backlash about this that we're not gonna have you on um,
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as well as just like dudes dropping out or
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guys be like oh actually like i got
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this offer to go do ufcbjj and they're gonna just pay me to be there so
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i'll go do that instead or whatever other things that have you know that people
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have gone on to do instead you know like i don't know there's plenty of other opportunities right or,
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injuries i'm sure too but a lot of weird like it's like a weird transitional period where,
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my thought with some of what you're talking about here was as it relates to
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adcc and like not even knowing it was taking i mean knew it was coming but i
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like forgotten when it was and then it just sort of popped up on the radar,
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i had asked myself similar question that we touched upon a minute ago,
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which is, is there just too much,
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is there so much shit happening that the noise has kind of drowned it all out
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and it's not really as noticeable, but it's also like, now that I even say that.
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You may have hit the nail on the head when we were just kind of bullshitting
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earlier where maybe they're just not trying that hard to market this stuff because,
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as I say that, yes, there are more people. Really, it's just the UFC, BJ, that's the next.
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There's only been, and tell me if I'm incorrect, but I think that's really the
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only major change on like a big scale that's disrupted the marketplace.
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And that really, when you think about it, that shouldn't really fuck up anyone else's shit too much.
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I mean yes that probably explains the movement of athletes but we still got
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an event coming we were just talking before we were having lunch before this we were like,
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wait a minute isn't there a super fight too like who the fuck's in the super
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fight I remember how hard they were selling the Andre Galvao Gordon thing now
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and also before the show like,
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flow ADCC,
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probably needs a guy like Gordon to really get eyes so like that could just
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be that that just sells so well on its own and they're just like well it's not
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even worth trying to hype up Kanan versus.
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Yuri who by the way if you're listening to this by the time you hear this you
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should know this but it's entirely possible you didn't watch ADCC because you
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didn't know it was coming but Yuri Samoes who was in the super fight two cycles
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back was it two cycles back?
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I thought it was in 2024 no because that was Andre that was Andre,
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I'll find out but the point being like Yuri's from a couple cycles back still
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nasty I'm sure sure he's really good but they threw him in because,
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I don't know there's like no cool story to tell and yeah like two 80cc's back
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Yuri fought Gordon in the absolute or sorry,
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in the super fight um yeah Gordon won um,
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And, you know, anytime Gordon's attached to a thing, it's good marketing,
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so maybe that's part of it.
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But I bring all that up because I think— He is also a former world champion, by the way.
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Oh, no, I don't doubt his qualifications. I'm just saying it's a couple cycles
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back that they had to find the next person in line. Because,
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you know, Gordon's retired. He's not going to— In theory, he should be the guy
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doing it because he's won the last two superfights.
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But he's not competing anymore, so he's out. and I just say all that to say
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like all of these athlete changes probably,
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it's possible that could have impacted some of the marketing but ADCC is still
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ADCC like surprising that we didn't really get a decent amount of content about it coming up.
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Other thing to think about that we had touched upon earlier a little while back
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when we were talking was maybe they just focus their efforts on Europe too just
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to sell some tickets because us flow grapplers we're going to watch no matter
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what if we know what's happening.
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Yeah I mean that was one of the things we talked about is like Maybe they were
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pushing more marketing into the European market just to be like,
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hey, come buy tickets and watch.
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Because, I mean, especially in Poland, anyone that's in mainland Europe can
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very just go there. Can get there, yeah.
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Valid. Maybe, yeah, like, hey, let's just market. Also, time zone stuff.
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It was done before I got here. It was done by noon today.
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So, all right, well, if it's done by noon our time, how much marketing are they really going to put in?
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To sell something that you either you either already have flow or you don't
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too right so like you're right so like if they're like devoting their marketing
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budget to something that's going to move the needle from them from from a business perspective
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you're right it does make sense to say let's just pour it all into in or around
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europe maybe maybe maybe some time zone specific stuff to get some new subscribers
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potentially but they're not going to bother with it's also probably going to be a lot of like.
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Flow marketing pushes whereas if you like we already we already have it yeah true so,
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but they have not targeting us right like yeah it knows the everything algorithm
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knows that you have flow it just knows
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somehow or if they know that well they probably know we've been following flow
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for like nine years or something so they but to your point for sure yeah that
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adds up so we might just be out of the target the target entirely possible the
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marketing because they're like you have it we have your money we don't really
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care if your eyes go on this,
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yeah i mean i'm sure they do yeah they sell commercials right like that's they
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buy the they buy the streaming rights and then flow sells commercials on the
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stream which is a little annoying by the way as a subscriber to a thing you
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pay too much money for but,
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yeah it's yeah i know that's its own thing,
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but you're right they do that they want the views but i i suppose you're right
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that well we were also talking about the fact that like they these,
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things have to generate at least they have to generate funds somehow to afford
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to pay for these right like you can't.
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Uh you can't have this event without money and that money has to come from somewhere
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and so like in this case it's,
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it's flow paying to have the rights to stream it because they know they can
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sell time to make their money back right and they can sell subscriptions and all this stuff.
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But um and they're just different games like if they can convert however i don't
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know the fuck they pay to have the rights for this but they probably say hey
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you know i know for cji they did last year,
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they did like a a promo to get your,
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your flow subscription i see and so that's how they could track how many got
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it and then they can make them this they probably have enough data they've done
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it for so many years that a little different but um,
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but yeah i mean it's still very strange like the whole thing and like ufc bjj,
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was on youtube it's now transitioning to fight pass,
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uh so like it was a free to watch thing and now it's gonna be paywalled paywalled
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by fight pass which is also weird because now everything's on paramount so why
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is there fight pat why do i need to pay for a fight pass,
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just so now fight pass is just to watch ufc bjj because paramount has all of
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the ufc it also has like the archives and all that all that shit like you used to have.
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Why do I have to have eight different subscriptions to watch shit?
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Maybe the UFC is sort of like, hey, look, we loved the idea of subsidizing this
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Jiu-Jitsu stuff, but now we're
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going to need to actually return on our investment or it's not worth it.
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They must not have been getting the views they said they were getting on YouTube to fund it.
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Can't you see views on YouTube? Can't you see this video has blah?
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Yeah, but you can also confabulate views, I guess. I don't fucking know. Who knows?
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You like that word, by the way. I did kind of like that. I was like,
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that could be a word I've never heard of. I don't know if it is.
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I like those more. Confabulate. It feels good.
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Confabulate it. Confabulate's a good one. I'm actually going to save that.
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Yeah, use that word. All of you, you can have it. Yeah.
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But yeah, I mean, it's,
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It's just all, like, a very weird thing. Seems like maybe a very transitional,
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like, what the fuck's going on?
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Yeah, and I don't know. There's no changes. One of the, this is actually the,
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CGI created a very interesting, you could almost say that it, like, kind of,
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may be like kind of,
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a like the spur of all of this shit right like the seal on the adcc monopoly
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of attention yeah nogi grappling and so now you have well so for in various things surrounding.
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The professional grappling space where like before they were like no like there's we can't afford,
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the whole the dialogue right the the narrative surrounding it was we can't afford
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to pay athletes because events can't make money the first cji,
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they gave the winners a shit ton of cash and the event made money and they donated,
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they had enough money and it was a lot of it was charity but like the event
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made enough money to also donate a shit ton of cash to charity right and,
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so that broke the narrative of you can't pay athletes because you could cgi2
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turn out a different but same thing so they still donated charity,
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event didn't lose money at least right um and the athletes made a shit ton of
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cash and so that changed this whole thing of like well then,
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why and it was produced similarly to adcc because adcc's big thing was well
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this production value and all of this to put this on we can't afford to pay
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the athletes that's been kind of the the story has been told and uh.
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So that also might have changed a lot of things surrounding,
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just events in general right i think it did it it kind of broke down like now
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people like well like yeah adcc
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is cool i think it also did in fact pave the way for cj for uh ufc bjj,
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where now they're paying athletes.
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They're doing different things, the exclusive contracts and all of that.
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Contracts also kind of spurred on by cji by the way because they didn't used
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to really do exclusivity for this either,
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um because i know that was the thing in 2024 was,
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they made all made their athletes sign contracts for adcc to keep them there
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to make them not leave to go to cji because some of them started leaving to do cji,
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so uh you know you have a couple like it definitely changed the landscape and i mean i still,
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craig says that ufc bj just stole the whole thing from no not exactly but uh,
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it's definitely a very similar format in whatever it's a good format.
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The open scored rounds is great the pit is cool like,
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it gets rid of the whole like out of bounds bullshit that occurs in matches
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because that does suck like we're literally watching that occur right now where
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they push each other out of bounds and they stop it and have to reset and,
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that like change of momentum and pace because of resets is,
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terrible for matches it's also not good for the athlete who actively was pushing
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the dude out of bounds like you're you have momentum there like there's.
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There's aspects of that that are good that that format helps the bowl the the
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pit like that kind of stuff works well in that yeah um and i've competed in
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those it if you get put up you get pushed up against that wall,
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it sucks the whole match away from you like it sucks so some strategy like you
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said yeah gamesmanship wise so i mean i i think that there's probably a little bit of that um,
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the prestige aspect right you're doing adcc for for prestige at this point it
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is like it still carries a lot of that but,
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the cost for athletes to do it they now have other options that they can weigh
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be like well i can make money instead and still like i can get paid to do this
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and not have to go and like,
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battle it out, potentially get injured and.
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Make $0 to go do this ADCC thing and spend a shit ton of money just to be ready for it, right?
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Like, and some of them probably have good enough deals to make that money,
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but there's definitely an aspect of that, right? Like, now there's options.
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People's attention is divided, which, hey, that may also take away from the
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ability to pay for these things.
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Um i don't know but yeah i mean it's just the the landscape is very different,
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just two years later right like 2024 was when all is kind of when this shift starts to occur so,
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yeah it's um.
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It's strange. It's new. For a long time, they were the biggest show in no-gi grappling.
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And like you said, there's still the prestige. That hasn't changed.
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The guys who come out of this weekend with gold medals at ADCC,
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I mean, quite frankly, even meddling at ADCC still has a tremendous amount of,
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it's an incredible accomplishment.
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It means a lot still. But for how much longer does that, But I think they have
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a bit of the legacy of it that's carrying on right now.
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And I mean, I would imagine, you know, they're not going anywhere, I don't think.
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And as long as it exists, it'll still be one of the most competitive tournaments.
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But in a couple of years, will the ADCC champion be as quote unquote elite as the UFC BJJ champion?
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And this is before we even talk about the money. Yeah. Because you're right. That's a big thing.
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I think you hit the nail on the head a minute ago where you said there is a
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prestige that makes ADCC unique that is still present.
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And we may be observing, as you said, cash and business starting to change that
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a little bit. And quite frankly...
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The ADCC Prestige.
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In my opinion, can and will always be a valuable monetary asset if these guys
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have academies or even tutorials, like Gordon or Craig, guys who have made a
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lot of money selling those. You can do that too.
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That is a business model that an ADCC metal would definitely boost.
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But aside from just purse money and being present in true competitive...
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Cash money business that they might be having their lunch just gobbled up by,
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UFC BJJ. And by the way, I meant to ask you as you were talking earlier,
00:17:48.826 --> 00:17:50.956
where you thought like PGF fits into things too.
00:17:51.496 --> 00:17:56.026
I think PJ, PGF is also, that's actually a really good point and call out.
00:17:56.026 --> 00:18:01.396
Like that's also a whole nother thing that that one's even more impressive because
00:18:01.396 --> 00:18:07.346
you have dudes throwing seven figures at teams oh like actually like you have
00:18:07.346 --> 00:18:10.159
legit professional league.
00:18:11.506 --> 00:18:16.216
Teams and they're trying to expand so they have eight right now 80 man roster
00:18:16.576 --> 00:18:20.976
so you can have 10 basically you have it's five weight class you have 10 people
00:18:20.976 --> 00:18:24.172
per team so you basically have alternate um,
00:18:24.857 --> 00:18:28.336
so you can have two people at each weight class you have eight teams right now
00:18:28.336 --> 00:18:30.546
and They're looking to expand it to 16 teams.
00:18:31.316 --> 00:18:34.759
So, like, it's... And it's...
00:18:35.891 --> 00:18:41.366
People are pumping money into it. And that's also, like, a super cool thing
00:18:41.366 --> 00:18:43.594
because those are also guys that...
00:18:47.263 --> 00:18:52.916
It's guys are making their names there and getting paid to do it versus the
00:18:52.916 --> 00:18:58.786
old format, which is ADCC, where you, you go, you can make your name,
00:18:59.303 --> 00:19:01.566
but you're, you might not make money, right?
00:19:01.566 --> 00:19:07.716
Like you might, you might go and compete and make $0, but like some of the guys
00:19:07.716 --> 00:19:11.876
that are at the ADCC tournament, even if they don't win the whole thing,
00:19:12.242 --> 00:19:14.570
one, it's hard to get there for sure.
00:19:14.796 --> 00:19:18.266
Well, they're paying for them to go, but it's still hard to get there.
00:19:18.266 --> 00:19:21.156
I meant, like, it's the process of getting into the fucking world.
00:19:21.396 --> 00:19:25.116
It's extremely competitive for, like you said, like, not a huge monetary boost.
00:19:25.116 --> 00:19:28.766
Unless, again, you have a way to, like, take that business model into your own
00:19:28.766 --> 00:19:30.176
hands, and you kind of have to. Yeah.
00:19:30.496 --> 00:19:33.824
It's not like these guys are getting paid. Like, the winner's not going to walk away with, like.
00:19:34.792 --> 00:19:37.666
There's an aspect of, like, you're betting on yourself, right?
00:19:37.666 --> 00:19:39.176
You're gambling on the fact that...
00:19:39.456 --> 00:19:43.076
Well, and probably a lot of these guys have found ways to put yourself in a
00:19:43.076 --> 00:19:47.966
position to be as competitive as it requires to get to an ADCC Finals.
00:19:47.966 --> 00:19:50.477
Not to mention get to the medal rounds of ADCC Finals.
00:19:51.000 --> 00:19:57.083
You probably have some sort of career path, meaning you can live an adult life
00:19:57.414 --> 00:20:01.576
and train enough to be an elite athlete.
00:20:01.849 --> 00:20:04.189
So these guys probably all have a way to do that.
00:20:04.560 --> 00:20:08.693
Um, but to your point, like, they're not like, what's the finals pay?
00:20:09.233 --> 00:20:12.576
Hey, I mean, last time it was 10 grand, so it's not. But for the finals too?
00:20:13.056 --> 00:20:17.296
Yeah. Jesus. It's 10 grand to win. Okay. It might be a little more than this
00:20:17.296 --> 00:20:20.454
time. I mean, if you win a bunch. Yeah, well, but like, okay, so that, which is great.
00:20:20.623 --> 00:20:23.786
By the way, it's, that's, that's money. It's not life-changing money.
00:20:24.210 --> 00:20:27.236
Um. But I mean, if you're making money along the way and like one,
00:20:27.556 --> 00:20:32.527
one night, like for one, two, for a weekend, probably really a week of like.
00:20:33.491 --> 00:20:36.456
If you're able to piece a bunch of those together a couple of those together
00:20:36.456 --> 00:20:39.436
in a year that's legit money no there's no doubt but there's one adcc every
00:20:39.436 --> 00:20:43.406
two years yeah no but back to what we were saying um,
00:20:44.224 --> 00:20:47.656
totally fine i mean these guys these are the kind of guys who were like these
00:20:47.656 --> 00:20:50.846
dudes all love jujitsu so much they would do this if you threw up a camera and
00:20:50.846 --> 00:20:54.139
told them it was competitive they'd do it for free just to get the prestige
00:20:54.418 --> 00:20:55.695
but i say all that to say like,
00:20:56.467 --> 00:21:01.646
these bros probably i would hope they would all have a way beyond the paycheck
00:21:01.646 --> 00:21:06.346
for the actual time spent on the mat there to monetize the prestige they've
00:21:06.346 --> 00:21:08.346
earned and brand that they've earned and developed.
00:21:08.346 --> 00:21:12.715
And if they don't, they really need to consider that because of all the reasons we're talking here.
00:21:12.924 --> 00:21:17.563
Yeah, I mean, it's, and this is probably because it's a.
00:21:18.764 --> 00:21:23.843
This might be just like an age of the sport thing. And we've talked about this
00:21:23.843 --> 00:21:30.093
before, like actually on the episode regarding how terrible all of the jujitsu
00:21:30.093 --> 00:21:33.693
heroes are, uh, that your heroes aren't heroes. They're all Sith Lords.
00:21:34.076 --> 00:21:40.333
Um, we're like, maybe we just haven't, we didn't, we never saw these.
00:21:40.333 --> 00:21:44.123
Well, we definitely didn't because you have all these other sports that started
00:21:44.123 --> 00:21:48.193
like a long ass time ago, a hundred years ago.
00:21:48.193 --> 00:21:53.093
Right. right and so it was pot it was the same thing then these dudes are basically
00:21:53.093 --> 00:21:56.315
playing for nothing right they just like doing it and they can go and like
00:21:56.664 --> 00:22:00.263
the i mean heck baseball players used to have day jobs yeah like professional
00:22:00.263 --> 00:22:04.384
baseball players had day jobs and they would go and play baseball on the weekends right like um,
00:22:04.942 --> 00:22:10.413
because they were just good at it similar thing is happening here and like but part of that is,
00:22:10.990 --> 00:22:14.125
if you want to be a professional athlete you gotta,
00:22:14.874 --> 00:22:17.263
act like one and demand to be paid by like one, right?
00:22:17.263 --> 00:22:22.233
Like, you know, the numbers are not hidden. You know how.
00:22:26.726 --> 00:22:31.551
Being willing to accept zero is what and that was that was a big thing with
00:22:31.551 --> 00:22:35.051
cji is like you know you can get paid you can do this and get paid,
00:22:35.651 --> 00:22:39.381
so and because he paid every one of them that showed up ten thousand and one
00:22:39.381 --> 00:22:43.831
dollars that night yeah just to show up right so like you can still get paid,
00:22:44.551 --> 00:22:52.913
and that's part of the game obviously there has to be a reason for that money to exist yeah but,
00:22:53.580 --> 00:22:56.991
if you don't start acting like a professional athlete you won't get treated
00:22:56.991 --> 00:23:00.773
like one right and i mean there's a reason dudes have agents right like yeah
00:23:01.086 --> 00:23:07.176
um and that's one of the things with usc bjj i'm not like a super huge fan of the,
00:23:08.435 --> 00:23:13.451
but of the exclusive contract thing but i also understand it because these guys
00:23:13.451 --> 00:23:17.111
usc is legit investing in these athletes they're treating them like professional
00:23:17.111 --> 00:23:19.140
athletes they're providing them with things that,
00:23:19.958 --> 00:23:25.089
you know they're they're getting fed they're getting taken care of like a lot of that stuff um,
00:23:25.814 --> 00:23:29.351
tackle brothers were talking about that where like they get health care they get,
00:23:30.058 --> 00:23:33.001
they get food they get like all these things they just go to the performance
00:23:33.001 --> 00:23:38.021
institute and they get taken care of obviously you have to be there in vegas
00:23:38.021 --> 00:23:41.430
but you know you can go get taken care of so um.
00:23:42.904 --> 00:23:45.731
You know it's just that's just part of it is uh,
00:23:46.683 --> 00:23:50.869
you have pgf and you have usc bjj in different,
00:23:51.513 --> 00:23:56.912
aspects of it treating these guys like actual professional athletes,
00:23:57.457 --> 00:24:03.131
and then adcc is still kind of like that old school do it for the love of the
00:24:03.131 --> 00:24:07.041
sport right like you get money and there are ways to make money off of it but,
00:24:08.649 --> 00:24:10.530
um but you know how like legit.
00:24:12.213 --> 00:24:16.648
Debate like legit organizations that are treating it as a professional sport
00:24:17.054 --> 00:24:21.965
and that's the way it's probably end up going pgf is,
00:24:23.119 --> 00:24:28.339
they're on i know they were at one point on fight pass and stuff like that and
00:24:28.339 --> 00:24:32.679
you know who knows what all goes on now but uh at least the finals were but
00:24:32.679 --> 00:24:35.826
now it's a whole it's all it's his own thing now which is really cool,
00:24:37.898 --> 00:24:43.569
um but yeah i mean it's just you can make money you can pay athletes and you
00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:52.022
can have exciting matchups the PGF is paying them and it's still exciting you know so,
00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:53.909
well like,
00:24:55.464 --> 00:25:02.169
hearing what I'm hearing it's it definitely seems like and looks like a story
00:25:02.169 --> 00:25:05.095
of like new disruptors coming through and they're.
00:25:07.051 --> 00:25:11.642
Able to maybe i don't want to say match necessarily of the ufc perhaps a little
00:25:11.642 --> 00:25:13.192
bit more because it's the ufc,
00:25:13.692 --> 00:25:18.332
yeah there's a prestige just in that that quite frankly even the 80s adcc can't
00:25:18.332 --> 00:25:22.882
like can't match that insofar as like the general public if you were able to
00:25:22.882 --> 00:25:23.212
go tell them like yeah i'm,
00:25:24.032 --> 00:25:28.643
a paid ufc athlete i'm gonna say fighter so it's different but you get the idea,
00:25:29.161 --> 00:25:33.711
um that that carries weight that like if you went to some like you went to go try to impress a girl,
00:25:34.589 --> 00:25:38.362
and you're like you just told her oh i competed in adcc she'd be like i don't
00:25:38.362 --> 00:25:41.740
know what that means you're like oh i competed in the ufc there's a high likelihood big oh,
00:25:42.344 --> 00:25:46.452
it's like oh the ufc i know what that is yeah exactly and so like to the general
00:25:46.452 --> 00:25:51.042
population there's like adcc is big for prestige within this like the pool of
00:25:51.042 --> 00:25:55.572
people that we already live in ufc similar obviously the ufc is mainstream like.
00:25:56.572 --> 00:25:59.700
The brand recognition is global yeah where adcc is,
00:26:00.183 --> 00:26:03.949
global but it's global within the world of people who are into jiu-jitsu yeah
00:26:04.158 --> 00:26:08.132
so to your point i say that because and pgf is like it's on the come up it's
00:26:08.132 --> 00:26:10.692
definitely a little smaller scale but it's very cool and they're getting and
00:26:10.692 --> 00:26:12.745
they are throwing legit money at people which is exciting
00:26:13.116 --> 00:26:17.807
and there's and i'd say maybe a little more similar to adcc where in our world
00:26:18.236 --> 00:26:22.872
that does carry weight like like if you're a pgf athlete like yeah it's there's
00:26:22.872 --> 00:26:26.032
there's brand and prestige you get out of that as well it's i wouldn't say it's
00:26:26.032 --> 00:26:28.950
on the level of adcc or ufc yet but,
00:26:29.513 --> 00:26:33.391
i think they overcompensate or they correct for that with with a better financial package.
00:26:33.594 --> 00:26:36.012
Yeah. From what I'm hearing, I don't know all the details of how they do their
00:26:36.012 --> 00:26:38.312
stuff, but there's money involved.
00:26:38.923 --> 00:26:43.842
And again, I don't know all the details, but it sounds like at least comparable,
00:26:43.842 --> 00:26:46.696
maybe better than ADCC financially.
00:26:47.044 --> 00:26:50.182
Not quite the same in terms of like clout and prestige yet, but that could also
00:26:50.182 --> 00:26:52.658
change. I mean, if your team wins, you make.
00:26:53.795 --> 00:26:57.861
I think just as much, if not more, than what you would for winning ADCC.
00:26:57.861 --> 00:26:59.821
Well, there you go. That's, which is great.
00:27:01.446 --> 00:27:05.001
And things can change, right? It could become that, maybe PGF,
00:27:05.301 --> 00:27:08.011
maybe like UFC comes and steals all the clout, all the prestige,
00:27:08.011 --> 00:27:11.051
all the money, because they're positioned to do it if they want.
00:27:11.051 --> 00:27:14.171
If they want, they'll do it. Well, and the way that they,
00:27:14.972 --> 00:27:18.271
and they've shown this with other sports, or the other, well,
00:27:18.271 --> 00:27:22.641
other sports, with the MMA aspect of it is, they'll let people,
00:27:22.641 --> 00:27:23.661
they don't even have to pay for
00:27:23.661 --> 00:27:27.121
development because people will develop themselves in these other leagues,
00:27:27.721 --> 00:27:31.791
they'll take people who are 80cc stars and they'll say well hey i'll just give
00:27:31.791 --> 00:27:35.921
you a paycheck right well more than that but hey i'll i'll pay you you come
00:27:35.921 --> 00:27:40.675
here and you'll make money you just have to sign this this contract,
00:27:41.621 --> 00:27:45.121
and we'll we'll give you a path to a championship belt you'll become the guy
00:27:45.121 --> 00:27:50.491
right and because it's the ufc name you're the guy yeah it carries more weight
00:27:50.491 --> 00:27:53.922
already because it has UFC attached to it than ADCC quite frankly,
00:27:54.721 --> 00:27:58.101
unless you know again to this point like I think the last thing holding out
00:27:58.101 --> 00:28:02.181
for ADCC is that I think it's fair to say at least in my opinion it's still
00:28:02.181 --> 00:28:06.941
competitively a little higher level than UFC BJ but that could change very quickly
00:28:06.941 --> 00:28:08.179
because of everything you just said.
00:28:09.741 --> 00:28:14.551
Once they just start buying guys out then yeah that changes until then I think
00:28:14.551 --> 00:28:20.501
this still has a slight edge in terms of like the competitive prestige value but broader or,
00:28:21.142 --> 00:28:25.860
world prestige and value UFC eats their lunch man like I said the general public
00:28:25.860 --> 00:28:30.012
doesn't know what ADCC is the general public does know what UFC is and,
00:28:30.749 --> 00:28:33.510
sort of I guess like I mean to the point of what you said earlier it's like
00:28:33.510 --> 00:28:36.026
UFC is positioned to outperform,
00:28:36.612 --> 00:28:40.860
ADCC in the broader appeal of building a person's profile as an athlete and
00:28:40.860 --> 00:28:43.143
probably also very soon if not already money,
00:28:43.642 --> 00:28:47.810
um so then I don't know maybe in a couple years that means PGF and ADCC are
00:28:47.810 --> 00:28:48.895
kind of competing for like that,
00:28:49.389 --> 00:28:54.420
lower tier level of prestige potentially and this is all just speculation um
00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:58.508
and then it becomes a money battle between those two yeah i don't know and pgf's
00:28:58.764 --> 00:29:04.284
in america yeah that's a little simpler i just mean like it's probably a better marketplace and,
00:29:05.056 --> 00:29:09.450
no offense to poland but it's probably better marketplace we didn't know this was coming no yeah no,
00:29:09.970 --> 00:29:15.280
like um i'll say about the pgf too is like i mean granted i follow those accounts
00:29:15.280 --> 00:29:20.430
but when they have events coming Like they do a really good job of pushing that content.
00:29:20.430 --> 00:29:25.564
Like the PGF feels like a small company kind of like startup feel.
00:29:26.650 --> 00:29:29.380
And I feel like they put in the effort of a small company startup that like
00:29:29.380 --> 00:29:34.020
it's noticeable. It's like it's admirable. Like they this seems ADCC seems a
00:29:34.020 --> 00:29:37.130
little bit like they're like we just have always done it and like we don't have to work that hard.
00:29:37.630 --> 00:29:40.850
I'm not saying they're doing nothing, but it's like they're kind of like we've got the prestige.
00:29:41.610 --> 00:29:44.150
We've got this position at the top of the mountain place. No big deal.
00:29:44.150 --> 00:29:47.246
We don't need to change things. And, like, PGS seems like they're working their ass off.
00:29:47.472 --> 00:29:50.940
UFC BGJ comes in and says, like, you know, if you want to do things at scale,
00:29:50.940 --> 00:29:52.010
we're going to beat you there, too.
00:29:52.010 --> 00:29:55.150
So I think these guys are in a tough position. Well, and this is also a thing
00:29:55.150 --> 00:30:01.015
that we were kind of talking, we were adjacently to this, that, like.
00:30:02.159 --> 00:30:07.380
There's a lot of the same dudes at, I mean, you basically see a lot of the same
00:30:07.380 --> 00:30:09.360
names at ADCC every year, right?
00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:13.500
Like, they recycle a lot of the same guys. They do. We talked about that before. And...
00:30:15.247 --> 00:30:23.583
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00:30:47.223 --> 00:30:50.290
Maybe that's because they're the best or maybe it's just because,
00:30:50.290 --> 00:30:53.270
hey, we know that these names will sell and there's not a lot of pushing of
00:30:53.270 --> 00:30:56.030
the, you know, it's just, oh, well, people know who these people are.
00:30:56.030 --> 00:30:57.310
We'll just put them in. That's right.
00:30:57.990 --> 00:31:02.130
It's a mix, I'm certain. But there's a lot of guys that are great out there.
00:31:02.130 --> 00:31:03.180
And one of the cool things that
00:31:03.180 --> 00:31:08.330
PGF is doing is they're doing those like little like regional tryouts.
00:31:08.930 --> 00:31:13.392
And you know so you can go and like win your way onto a team or,
00:31:14.518 --> 00:31:19.680
um you can basically get into the 80 man roster just by winning in those and
00:31:19.680 --> 00:31:21.821
once you're in i'm pretty sure that like,
00:31:22.367 --> 00:31:27.910
you can still be in like once you make a team you can stay on the rotation like
00:31:27.910 --> 00:31:33.570
you can be invited back like you're you're eligible to be right in the draft each year um,
00:31:34.348 --> 00:31:37.738
so you know it's it's cool because it gives,
00:31:38.441 --> 00:31:42.092
it's created an outlet for dudes to get,
00:31:42.713 --> 00:31:46.730
into that spotlight i mean cam that's how like that was a big thing for him
00:31:46.730 --> 00:31:50.710
was making that pgf roster there's a lot of dudes that make that roster they
00:31:50.710 --> 00:31:54.751
also get really good because they get that experience they get a shit ton of competition they,
00:31:55.226 --> 00:31:58.252
get some money you know like yep they're.
00:31:59.610 --> 00:32:03.841
It's a it's a real pathway to professional to being a professional in the sport
00:32:04.010 --> 00:32:07.997
and that's it didn't there wasn't that before right like you just kind of had to,
00:32:08.643 --> 00:32:14.900
hope that you win some shit become you know good enough to get sponsorship deals
00:32:14.900 --> 00:32:17.140
and open a gym and make money right like that was a lot of the a,
00:32:18.030 --> 00:32:21.251
lot of the dudes like i was reading about martinez like,
00:32:22.534 --> 00:32:28.410
opening the gym is what is really what set him up like having the prestige to
00:32:28.410 --> 00:32:33.020
make open like a sick gym right like a gym that people want to go train at because
00:32:33.020 --> 00:32:35.427
they're training with one of the best so um.
00:32:37.459 --> 00:32:38.068
Yeah i mean it's just,
00:32:39.344 --> 00:32:45.603
a very it's just different pathways i guess but to be paid for being the athlete
00:32:45.603 --> 00:32:50.303
not because of what you did as an athlete right like after the fact um,
00:32:51.574 --> 00:32:56.404
and i'm sure that there's both at that at this point though right like well
00:32:56.630 --> 00:33:01.703
it's it's interesting because i don't i i genuinely do not know if this is ever
00:33:01.703 --> 00:33:04.757
going to be a sport where someone can just get paid to compete,
00:33:05.245 --> 00:33:10.899
i don't know because I don't know if there's a broad enough appeal to attract the type of money that,
00:33:11.799 --> 00:33:16.273
just being a competitive athlete, like the business around the sport has got
00:33:16.273 --> 00:33:20.313
to get to a certain level where, like you were talking about your friend or
00:33:20.313 --> 00:33:23.583
maybe it was a commenter, but someone who was saying, I don't want to pay to watch this.
00:33:23.583 --> 00:33:28.877
Why isn't it like watching football or baseball? Well, it's just, there's no money.
00:33:30.233 --> 00:33:35.393
It's not even close to that. But you would need it to be like that for someone
00:33:35.393 --> 00:33:41.960
to make a solid income to just be an athlete.
00:33:42.349 --> 00:33:45.983
In the current state, like it's probably possible. It seems like Gordon's really
00:33:45.983 --> 00:33:50.912
the only dude who's figured that out in terms of just being an athlete. Maybe Mikey.
00:33:52.433 --> 00:33:56.313
Craig had a, Mikey, I don't think he owns a gym. I think Mikey just competes
00:33:56.313 --> 00:33:59.358
for one. Mikey just competes for one. Or UFC now rather. Craig has a gym.
00:33:59.933 --> 00:34:03.333
Craig just got a gym again and he had a gym before, but Craig seemed,
00:34:03.753 --> 00:34:07.851
he seemed like he was able to just make money off of him being him.
00:34:08.513 --> 00:34:12.943
Again, these guys all have tutorials too. And it seems like at least Gordon
00:34:12.943 --> 00:34:15.963
used to post his paychecks from those and it seemed like he was making good
00:34:15.963 --> 00:34:18.688
paper on that. I assume he still is. But.
00:34:20.935 --> 00:34:24.302
Even that is separate than what they earned in,
00:34:26.251 --> 00:34:32.515
purses for competing um and that does somewhat beg the question of like all
00:34:32.515 --> 00:34:37.136
right like maybe you can make like how much money does a person need to live number one,
00:34:37.821 --> 00:34:41.515
and could you find a way to like live off of just competing right now you possibly
00:34:41.515 --> 00:34:46.035
could uh now then there's living and there's living well and there's living
00:34:46.035 --> 00:34:50.062
not just well but like living like in gordon's case like You know, I'm a millionaire.
00:34:50.248 --> 00:34:56.005
Like, if you're that, if your skill set is that valuable in the marketplace,
00:34:56.005 --> 00:34:59.265
albeit through multiple different avenues, the tutorials, he now has his own
00:34:59.265 --> 00:35:01.835
jam, he got sponsorships, he got paid to do shit.
00:35:01.835 --> 00:35:04.735
Like, if you can pull that off, like, you should pull it off,
00:35:04.735 --> 00:35:08.055
get paid as much as you possibly can. I fully support that. There is, uh...
00:35:11.065 --> 00:35:15.865
To just be the athlete like a guy who plays professional baseball.
00:35:16.144 --> 00:35:19.139
Like, I don't see that. I don't know if that'll ever happen.
00:35:19.267 --> 00:35:24.908
There's also talk that Gordon isn't as rich as he puts on. Who cares?
00:35:25.288 --> 00:35:28.748
He's clearly the highest paid, like, by far. Yeah, I just mean from,
00:35:29.288 --> 00:35:30.865
like, an athlete. Like, just from a...
00:35:31.411 --> 00:35:35.328
Well, it's a fair question. I don't know what he got paid to be an athlete.
00:35:35.328 --> 00:35:38.248
When I say that, I mean, like, showing up to fight and being paid...
00:35:39.020 --> 00:35:42.358
There's not to be piles of cash, but like here's the value of you just being
00:35:42.358 --> 00:35:46.448
here fighting that guy. Well, I'm not saying it to like shit on Gordon.
00:35:46.868 --> 00:35:49.468
You know, I'm not, I'm just saying from like a aspect of like,
00:35:49.468 --> 00:35:52.134
there might not be even, even the top paid guy.
00:35:52.366 --> 00:35:55.288
There might not be as much money out there as. Well, I believe that.
00:35:55.288 --> 00:35:59.878
You know, like there might even be less because he might be presenting as living
00:35:59.878 --> 00:36:03.738
as a millionaire, but it might not even be the case. Right. Like that's all
00:36:03.738 --> 00:36:07.998
I'm getting at. I get it, but I don't think he tells anyone that he's a millionaire
00:36:07.998 --> 00:36:09.148
because he fought an ADCC.
00:36:09.188 --> 00:36:13.588
He's a billionaire because he sold a fucking however many thousand copies of
00:36:13.908 --> 00:36:15.209
Systematically Whatever, dude.
00:36:15.516 --> 00:36:20.428
But that's what I'm saying. That is a different business model that this lends
00:36:20.428 --> 00:36:24.671
credibility, that this advertised, that helps that, but he had to build that,
00:36:25.152 --> 00:36:27.928
via, you know, Grapp Fanatics or whatever it was.
00:36:28.891 --> 00:36:33.018
He had to prove in the world of competition that he's like, my expertise.
00:36:33.018 --> 00:36:36.368
My stuff works. My expertise works and I'm going to sell it versus like right
00:36:36.368 --> 00:36:41.308
now, Wagner and this dude and Michael Sainz, like showing up and just fighting,
00:36:41.308 --> 00:36:45.590
like just being an athlete's your job. That's basically what I'm trying to get at here. I don't know.
00:36:45.875 --> 00:36:48.768
Like you don't see football players selling football tutorials. No.
00:36:49.188 --> 00:36:52.538
Granted, it's a different thing. Like you'll see football players who like become,
00:36:53.096 --> 00:36:57.125
so knowledgeable and expert level that they become highly paid coaches later.
00:36:57.327 --> 00:37:02.408
That's a different thing. Well, they'll do skills camps and stuff like that too. Fair enough. Yeah.
00:37:02.748 --> 00:37:06.371
Yeah, which is basically seminars. Yeah, yeah, right. Okay, so fair enough, right? Yeah.
00:37:09.233 --> 00:37:12.781
And that's, in my opinion, that's because like any other athlete,
00:37:12.781 --> 00:37:16.421
like these guys know, like let's, these guys are not, I'd say the burden of
00:37:16.421 --> 00:37:20.106
this position is like a grappler is like, you better figure out your ancillary,
00:37:20.373 --> 00:37:23.159
which I say ancillary, really they're the main income models.
00:37:23.450 --> 00:37:25.481
You need to figure that out right now because you're just never going to be
00:37:25.481 --> 00:37:27.380
a millionaire from just doing a fight.
00:37:27.687 --> 00:37:32.121
In jiu-jitsu, if you're smart, I don't know if Gordon is or is not.
00:37:32.121 --> 00:37:34.431
I'm just going to go off of like what I see, like what he averages,
00:37:34.431 --> 00:37:37.331
let's just say for the second conversation that he is, it's like he had to do
00:37:37.331 --> 00:37:42.872
that not through what he's ADCC paid him that one time or flow from who's number one or whatever
00:37:43.290 --> 00:37:48.096
he's not a millionaire off that but him beating everyone's ass for like 15 years he's like yeah,
00:37:48.787 --> 00:37:51.974
I'll tell you how I did that for the following amount of money come to my academy,
00:37:52.172 --> 00:37:54.581
go to my seminars you know buy my shit online,
00:37:55.501 --> 00:37:58.511
I think that's smart, I think you have to do that because he's just not going to get.
00:38:00.728 --> 00:38:08.801
The free market value quote unquote dollars that what he's But his skill level
00:38:08.801 --> 00:38:13.361
and his expertise that he's kind of earned and proven via competition is really
00:38:13.361 --> 00:38:14.724
worth. It puts the burden.
00:38:15.125 --> 00:38:17.891
You have to create your own business model or you have to optimize your own
00:38:17.891 --> 00:38:19.861
business model. Like we don't have managers.
00:38:20.424 --> 00:38:23.681
You don't have agents like saying, show up, do this, do that.
00:38:23.681 --> 00:38:26.981
You know what I mean? Like maybe, maybe one day. But again, like you got to
00:38:26.981 --> 00:38:32.501
get to a certain like broader appeal, free, like entire world marketplace.
00:38:32.501 --> 00:38:36.294
There has to be enough eyeballs that like other folks can just sell your existence.
00:38:36.520 --> 00:38:39.504
You're not there. You got to sell your own existence. Well, and I think there,
00:38:40.201 --> 00:38:44.984
there is, there is an art that actually brings up a good, like there might be,
00:38:46.569 --> 00:38:50.293
You probably should argue to a lot of guys that are like, I want to be a professional
00:38:50.293 --> 00:38:54.333
jiu-jitsu athlete, but like you should talk to some, like a business consultant
00:38:54.333 --> 00:38:59.381
now and just find out like, Hey, here's what I want to do.
00:38:59.949 --> 00:39:03.023
How do I monetize this? And it's kind of like what you're saying,
00:39:03.023 --> 00:39:09.661
like, what is my pathway? Do I, do I use this to open a gym?
00:39:09.789 --> 00:39:11.925
Do I use this to sell this?
00:39:12.326 --> 00:39:17.167
Well, I'm not very good at teaching. well okay then tutorials isn't going to be for you.
00:39:18.241 --> 00:39:22.373
You're like maybe you're going to be more of a guy who like hey let's use your prestige to open,
00:39:22.833 --> 00:39:27.443
build a brand that you can place on a gym and now you can run this gym and when
00:39:27.443 --> 00:39:31.403
you're done competing now you just have this thing that's making money or whatever
00:39:31.403 --> 00:39:35.672
and like i mean i know i've known i've competed against a lot of these young guys that,
00:39:36.241 --> 00:39:41.053
probably don't know what they're going to do with the whole jiu-jitsu thing
00:39:41.053 --> 00:39:43.619
right And I've been that young guy that like,
00:39:44.530 --> 00:39:47.427
was like, oh no, like I'll just do this and get paid to do this.
00:39:47.636 --> 00:39:52.023
But then you realize that like, oh shit, like I can't really make that.
00:39:52.023 --> 00:39:54.643
I can make money, but it's not that much money. You know what I mean?
00:39:54.643 --> 00:39:58.693
Like it's not like enough to have a family. You have to be entrepreneurial.
00:39:58.713 --> 00:40:04.233
Unless you're like, I mean, less than 1% of the guys are making money.
00:40:04.553 --> 00:40:09.683
Right. You know, like, hell, even the guy who's going to be crowned best in
00:40:09.683 --> 00:40:12.673
the world this year might not really make any money.
00:40:13.453 --> 00:40:19.744
You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, you have a couple guys in here who got paid a shit ton last year.
00:40:20.040 --> 00:40:23.233
Like, Wojcik doesn't need to do this for the $10,000. Mm-hmm.
00:40:23.813 --> 00:40:27.833
Wojcik got a fat check last year. CJI. the CGI.
00:40:28.213 --> 00:40:32.573
And I think he has, I think he is or has opened his own academy too,
00:40:32.573 --> 00:40:35.101
I believe. I could be wrong. But to your point.
00:40:37.505 --> 00:40:41.951
You yes you do you have to like you know i don't i i don't,
00:40:42.450 --> 00:40:46.450
i i mean i say with almost complete certainty that there aren't managers,
00:40:46.891 --> 00:40:50.715
that you can get to teach you to do these things you can however find like informal
00:40:50.715 --> 00:40:54.375
managers like you could talk to like you need to talk to wagner talk to some
00:40:54.375 --> 00:40:56.495
other guys for that's like you kind of have to talk to the guys who have been
00:40:56.495 --> 00:40:58.054
where you're you're trying to go to be like
00:40:58.437 --> 00:41:00.905
what works what have you learned what would you advise and like that and some
00:41:00.905 --> 00:41:03.000
of these guys will probably they'll tell you they'll give you advice like,
00:41:03.981 --> 00:41:06.773
you're gonna have to still build that yourself um,
00:41:08.050 --> 00:41:11.545
yeah what are my options what are my options and you know hopefully that'll
00:41:11.696 --> 00:41:15.805
evolve in a couple years too i mean probably will or like maybe the tools and
00:41:15.805 --> 00:41:19.033
the resources to do things that have already been done will improve and people can,
00:41:19.637 --> 00:41:24.085
gain more because the barriers to entry will be reduced like in any situation
00:41:24.085 --> 00:41:26.785
where like everyone in this world right now ourselves included are kind of like
00:41:26.785 --> 00:41:29.766
kind of like the early adopters so we're like sort of paving these roads
00:41:30.114 --> 00:41:33.665
but yeah like to your point like we just there aren't managers who are saying,
00:41:33.665 --> 00:41:34.735
like, here's what you're going to do.
00:41:34.735 --> 00:41:37.355
The first eight years, you're going to focus on competing, try to get a good
00:41:37.355 --> 00:41:38.535
resume while you're doing that.
00:41:38.535 --> 00:41:42.885
You're going to get some coaching skills developed by being a part-time whatever
00:41:42.885 --> 00:41:45.775
at this academy in your area where you can learn how to be a coach such that
00:41:45.775 --> 00:41:47.935
by the time you've gotten, like, you know, however many medals,
00:41:47.935 --> 00:41:50.145
we're going to find investors to help build it. You know what I mean?
00:41:50.145 --> 00:41:51.262
Like, there's no way out doing that.
00:41:51.523 --> 00:41:53.575
You can talk to some pretty smart people who could probably help you with a
00:41:53.575 --> 00:41:56.463
lot of that, but some of it is like self-discovery as well.
00:41:59.046 --> 00:41:59.679
Such a fun.
00:42:02.523 --> 00:42:05.185
Interesting little tangent we're on as it relates to events,
00:42:05.185 --> 00:42:07.465
but it's also kind of connected to the business of this entire world.
00:42:07.505 --> 00:42:09.845
Yeah, it's just general business and landscape. Well, but in the events.
00:42:11.225 --> 00:42:13.575
Your high-level competitors will tell you this too, it's like the events are
00:42:13.575 --> 00:42:17.616
kind of an advertisement for you and what you're doing, and you just need to,
00:42:18.505 --> 00:42:23.902
appropriately develop a way to monetize what you do so that you can capitalize on this stuff.
00:42:24.070 --> 00:42:29.805
Or if you're not going to make any money, you just need to be inherently intrinsically um,
00:42:31.130 --> 00:42:34.165
appreciative of the value that quite frankly of your experience.
00:42:34.165 --> 00:42:36.204
Like, if you're not going to get paid, you might as well just, it's for you.
00:42:36.517 --> 00:42:39.575
Yeah. And it's for, like, your experience, and it's something you're going to
00:42:39.575 --> 00:42:41.823
carry with your entire life, which is all true, too.
00:42:42.009 --> 00:42:45.335
If you're not getting paid to do something, you better fucking,
00:42:45.355 --> 00:42:48.055
You better really like it. You really have to enjoy doing it, right? Yeah.
00:42:48.095 --> 00:42:50.225
Like, you have to, if you're not going to get paid to do it.
00:42:50.235 --> 00:42:53.435
That's right. I mean, like, we could even take this and shrink it down to,
00:42:53.435 --> 00:42:58.570
like, we don't get paid directly to compete. Uh-huh.
00:42:58.977 --> 00:43:04.245
But there is, it does provide value to the other aspects of things that make
00:43:04.245 --> 00:43:11.491
us money right like it it provides like a validation is not the word um.
00:43:12.862 --> 00:43:18.335
It verifies your skill set it verifies like all this stuff enhances your skill
00:43:18.715 --> 00:43:23.925
set it's true it's a yeah external about like it shows other people like oh no this guy's
00:43:24.366 --> 00:43:28.045
doing this thing and he is able to do it against other people who don't want
00:43:28.045 --> 00:43:33.375
him too right like yeah other that he is out there competing at x y and z things
00:43:33.375 --> 00:43:36.655
and he's able to show that his jujitsu does in fact,
00:43:37.120 --> 00:43:41.475
work it right right it there is a value inherent it has it has many different
00:43:41.475 --> 00:43:44.748
values you're spot on i mean and we've yeah 35.
00:43:47.075 --> 00:43:50.825
Minutes in 41 minutes 43 we got pretty we've been talking about companies we
00:43:50.825 --> 00:43:54.155
haven't talked about our company we haven't talked about competing uh now we're
00:43:54.155 --> 00:43:57.135
talking about it we've been talking all business up until now Well,
00:43:57.135 --> 00:44:00.985
I mean, this is an opportunity to kind of be specific with that.
00:44:00.985 --> 00:44:05.435
And to your point, agreed, it does. I mean, I think it literally does enhance
00:44:05.435 --> 00:44:08.798
your skills as a coach, which is a monetizable skill.
00:44:10.127 --> 00:44:10.620
Pardon me.
00:44:12.710 --> 00:44:16.693
And that's probably the simplest explanation for it. Like, we're looking at
00:44:16.693 --> 00:44:21.608
Wagner and Michael Sainz. Michael Sainz coaches at Logos, I think, is in Denver.
00:44:21.968 --> 00:44:24.023
He's a coach. I don't know if he owns it.
00:44:24.953 --> 00:44:28.173
Let's just say even he doesn't for the sake of conversation.
00:44:28.173 --> 00:44:32.773
He may. But this high-level experience, him and Wagner right now and whatever
00:44:32.773 --> 00:44:38.216
round this is at ADCC qualifying round, like this helps him learn and bring,
00:44:38.973 --> 00:44:41.893
all the lessons that you get that you get from competitions it's the same thing
00:44:41.893 --> 00:44:44.813
that he's getting right now with Wagner right and vice versa Wagner does own
00:44:44.813 --> 00:44:46.929
an academy in South Florida plus,
00:44:47.818 --> 00:44:50.983
he's got two kids that he's you know at least emotionally invested in seeing
00:44:50.983 --> 00:44:54.423
them succeed so it's going to help him like they're both actually competing this weekend um.
00:44:56.049 --> 00:44:58.863
He's a better coach for his family he's a better coach for his community for
00:44:58.863 --> 00:45:01.233
his like he has a business model built around it right so,
00:45:01.947 --> 00:45:05.103
he I mean he has been to the top of this mountain so many times like what's
00:45:05.103 --> 00:45:08.853
one more tournament but like clearly this guy loves it um but even this tournament
00:45:08.853 --> 00:45:12.813
will teach him something too like he's getting raw skills and that's before
00:45:12.813 --> 00:45:14.248
we even get into like the notoriety,
00:45:14.735 --> 00:45:18.073
like you could be kind of a crap coach but if you see people see people see
00:45:18.073 --> 00:45:21.450
you on adcc they might just show up anyways yeah so there's like true skills
00:45:21.746 --> 00:45:25.083
and then there's just like advertisement skills as you said all of these things
00:45:25.083 --> 00:45:28.630
kind of point to yeah verify validate pick a word um,
00:45:29.931 --> 00:45:33.193
i would just say like those that those are true those words but it's also just
00:45:33.193 --> 00:45:36.003
like it's literal skill sets like these are skill development opportunities
00:45:36.003 --> 00:45:39.433
like call it professional development um you know call it whatever you want
00:45:39.433 --> 00:45:44.130
to choose like businessy type terms for it but this experience,
00:45:45.058 --> 00:45:50.161
um yeah it bears a ton of fruit for these guys as businessmen,
00:45:50.974 --> 00:45:55.723
in the world of martial arts um beyond the the 10 or 20 or maybe even 30k if
00:45:55.723 --> 00:45:59.693
they keep racking wins don't even don't know but like 30k is not going to change
00:45:59.693 --> 00:46:02.619
his life well and you have to you have to like,
00:46:03.397 --> 00:46:09.259
you also do need to approach these with the mindset of,
00:46:10.089 --> 00:46:11.379
i'm going to.
00:46:12.956 --> 00:46:17.420
Get something out of this beyond just victories right like there is an aspect
00:46:17.420 --> 00:46:21.170
of that too where like you can't just go into it and then afterwards try to
00:46:21.170 --> 00:46:26.022
get glean that information right like you have to do it in like almost,
00:46:27.572 --> 00:46:31.870
obviously not like the only thing you're thinking about but you do have to try
00:46:31.870 --> 00:46:37.660
to gather that information as closely to the point at which it happens as well.
00:46:37.660 --> 00:46:42.260
You have to know like, Hey, going into it, like win or lose,
00:46:42.260 --> 00:46:46.100
I'm going to get every ounce of value out of this that I can.
00:46:46.100 --> 00:46:49.710
I'm going to figure out the things I need to figure out to be a better coach,
00:46:49.710 --> 00:46:53.009
to do this, to like, you know, like all those things have to be.
00:46:55.105 --> 00:46:58.160
Intentional. Yep. You can't like be like, Oh, I lost.
00:46:58.160 --> 00:47:04.050
So I guess I'll try to try to pull some value out of this like you need to know
00:47:04.050 --> 00:47:09.774
that going into it right um i imagine they do well these guys do i'm just saying for sure,
00:47:10.418 --> 00:47:14.820
you know i'm sure these guys know that also like if you just love competing
00:47:14.820 --> 00:47:18.140
it makes it a little easier to do that yeah like well i would say i mean,
00:47:18.974 --> 00:47:23.641
okay to your point like the dudes we're looking at now i think they're,
00:47:24.703 --> 00:47:28.990
so aware of that yeah they're very good at it um that's more for the people
00:47:28.990 --> 00:47:31.680
we're talking that's reasonable right And that kind of goes back to what you're
00:47:31.680 --> 00:47:34.970
saying about the young guy who's like, I want to do this all the time, which is no problem.
00:47:34.970 --> 00:47:37.310
You might as well think about what you just mentioned, which is like,
00:47:37.310 --> 00:47:41.439
how do you take this experience and turn it into something that like other people can benefit from?
00:47:41.886 --> 00:47:43.738
Because you're going to have to figure that out if you want to like,
00:47:44.133 --> 00:47:46.150
if you do want to do this for the rest of your life, like if you want this to
00:47:46.150 --> 00:47:48.277
be your career, like start thinking of ways to...
00:47:50.002 --> 00:47:55.407
Extract all the value possible from your desire and passion to like go compete,
00:47:55.953 --> 00:47:59.015
or coach or whatever but like you got to like find a way to like take that and
00:47:59.015 --> 00:48:01.875
you need to communicate that to people because that's the nature of a business
00:48:01.875 --> 00:48:03.540
you got to be like hey i have something of value,
00:48:04.289 --> 00:48:09.005
i can communicate that to you you give me money i exchange value right it's
00:48:09.005 --> 00:48:11.388
like if you're not going to be able to do that you're gonna have a tough time
00:48:11.736 --> 00:48:15.503
like you if you're kind of like if you can't communicate that you better be,
00:48:16.263 --> 00:48:20.475
a good meathead retard at fighting you better be one of the best like your shit
00:48:20.475 --> 00:48:23.675
needs to speak for itself and even that like i said that kind of goes back to
00:48:23.675 --> 00:48:26.288
my point i'm like you if you can't like i think you've,
00:48:27.066 --> 00:48:30.475
and it would be very interesting if this changed one day but like just the people
00:48:30.475 --> 00:48:33.945
making money on this stuff just have to find a way to like communicate it they
00:48:33.945 --> 00:48:37.695
have to coach it to people like i said going back to like i don't know how king's
00:48:37.695 --> 00:48:40.487
way is doing on on money i bet it's doing okay but,
00:48:41.312 --> 00:48:44.765
i'd be willing to bet gordon probably clear clears more money still from his
00:48:44.765 --> 00:48:47.875
tutorials not to mention the fact you need to like pay overhead and staff and
00:48:47.875 --> 00:48:50.205
so i don't know what the margins are like but i bet they're doing pretty good but
00:48:50.611 --> 00:48:54.845
i bet he's still making like he's probably profiting more at the moment with
00:48:54.845 --> 00:48:59.411
that business being relatively new off of tutorials also like he doesn't have staff there
00:48:59.742 --> 00:49:03.325
right so it's kind of like it's but that's still a coaching skill yeah like
00:49:03.325 --> 00:49:05.733
you said earlier so like he he still has a.
00:49:07.051 --> 00:49:12.325
Um, an educational tool. It's like, it's, wait, you can be the best in the world
00:49:12.325 --> 00:49:14.675
at arm bars, but if you can't tell someone how to do an arm bar.
00:49:14.915 --> 00:49:18.855
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So you, he's doing that though, right?
00:49:18.855 --> 00:49:22.095
But that seems to be the monetization of martial arts at the moment.
00:49:22.095 --> 00:49:24.735
Yeah. And maybe it has been for like forever, actually, now that we talk about
00:49:24.735 --> 00:49:27.075
it. I mean, really, that's, Master Kim, karate, stuff like that.
00:49:27.075 --> 00:49:28.675
Since the beginning, that's been what makes money.
00:49:28.835 --> 00:49:33.335
Those guys are making paper on just having tons of schools. Be so good at teaching
00:49:33.335 --> 00:49:35.836
that you could slap your name on literally any school.
00:49:36.551 --> 00:49:41.285
There's a simplicity to it right like if like i'm sure it's not i i i i know
00:49:41.285 --> 00:49:44.520
it's not easy but like you can do it um,
00:49:45.392 --> 00:49:49.855
and like yeah like if if you if you always have your focus on like all right
00:49:49.855 --> 00:49:53.585
how do i get as good as possible at this martial art and then not just that
00:49:53.585 --> 00:49:57.906
but get as good as possible explaining it to people in an organized and professional way,
00:49:58.580 --> 00:50:03.215
such that i can build a whole like nice interesting tiered out like monetization
00:50:03.215 --> 00:50:06.730
strategy like that's that's the game within the game if you want to like live well,
00:50:07.485 --> 00:50:11.518
based on doing martial arts well and like think and like if,
00:50:12.278 --> 00:50:16.195
gordon well this might that might be a bad example i'm going to use uh greg
00:50:16.195 --> 00:50:23.011
souder's as an example right if greg souder's didn't start didn't start producing,
00:50:23.917 --> 00:50:25.966
athletes that were winning.
00:50:27.116 --> 00:50:31.165
The rest of we would know because we knew we know more from here yeah but the
00:50:31.165 --> 00:50:34.345
rest of the There'd be a whole bunch of other people that wouldn't know Greg Souders.
00:50:34.345 --> 00:50:43.753
That's right. And then there's no CLA seminars across the world because there isn't that proof.
00:50:44.391 --> 00:50:49.455
Because that is the way that you can see that, oh, no, this guy's teaching style
00:50:49.455 --> 00:50:51.688
is producing people who are good at jiu-jitsu.
00:50:52.515 --> 00:50:59.467
And same thing if Gordon Ryan opened Kingsway, but then nobody competes out of Kingsway.
00:51:00.129 --> 00:51:04.655
Then maybe it's like oh well like maybe he's not it's a terrible example because
00:51:04.655 --> 00:51:08.055
that's what's happening you're saying you have to show results yeah like show
00:51:08.055 --> 00:51:10.141
like your system your methodology.
00:51:11.296 --> 00:51:15.864
It works beyond just me. In his case, it worked well for him.
00:51:15.864 --> 00:51:20.054
And I mean, him and John, that's a whole thing we're talking about too.
00:51:20.054 --> 00:51:22.824
But I think Kingsway is more his than John's. I could be wrong.
00:51:22.824 --> 00:51:24.340
I don't know how all that shit's structured.
00:51:24.706 --> 00:51:30.604
But he would give all his, I'm sure, I mean, he seems very outwardly thankful
00:51:30.604 --> 00:51:33.364
and he gives all the credit possible to John. So even he, I think,
00:51:33.364 --> 00:51:35.607
would say, this is my way is John's way.
00:51:36.464 --> 00:51:39.814
And our athletes that are coming out of here is yes, to your point.
00:51:39.814 --> 00:51:45.344
Like it's it's it's meant to be a expression of how good he is at not just being
00:51:45.344 --> 00:51:47.670
nasty himself but like making other people better too,
00:51:48.889 --> 00:51:53.174
um which is different like it's it is it's the same thing at the end of the
00:51:53.174 --> 00:51:56.697
day like you said with greg and in the in the the corbeys,
00:51:57.306 --> 00:52:01.134
and you know anyone else he produces in the future and then the corbeys open
00:52:01.134 --> 00:52:04.624
their own gym and like that's that's i mean that's that honestly that's probably
00:52:04.624 --> 00:52:06.518
a better example like that whole,
00:52:07.359 --> 00:52:09.159
right now at this point of like,
00:52:10.047 --> 00:52:14.254
cause Gordon was already doing other stuff and he's monetizing stuff other ways
00:52:14.254 --> 00:52:16.479
whereas like Greg had standard.
00:52:17.959 --> 00:52:21.646
He started producing people. He started having people winning under standard,
00:52:21.646 --> 00:52:23.966
the Corbett's. And then other people are coming.
00:52:24.286 --> 00:52:26.346
Now they're going to go off and they're going to. They've opened Black Box.
00:52:26.346 --> 00:52:28.076
Yep. So they have their own school now.
00:52:28.076 --> 00:52:30.716
And if they're, they might, they're going to start producing winners.
00:52:30.716 --> 00:52:33.751
And that, you know, that validates their ability as coaches.
00:52:33.751 --> 00:52:37.096
That's the process to, to show results. Yeah. I get what you're saying.
00:52:37.096 --> 00:52:41.426
And you say, oh, now like people will see, oh, well this is a school that these
00:52:41.426 --> 00:52:42.840
guys train under Greg Souders.
00:52:43.124 --> 00:52:45.626
And now they open their own school. They'll probably be pretty good coaches.
00:52:45.626 --> 00:52:47.736
Like once that whole system validates itself.
00:52:47.766 --> 00:52:51.706
Thing right yeah yeah yeah that's what that's i mean hell that's just what everyone
00:52:51.706 --> 00:52:55.366
involved just has to like you know if that's what they want to do here's the
00:52:55.366 --> 00:52:59.157
thing this we're all just talking about like competition environment stuff too like these guys,
00:52:59.715 --> 00:53:03.566
they could also become really good coaches who don't deal with competitors at
00:53:03.566 --> 00:53:07.811
all also true you know what i mean we're just talking about this one lane um,
00:53:08.671 --> 00:53:12.126
in any case to your point though like yeah like i mean knowing everyone involved
00:53:12.126 --> 00:53:15.086
we're talking about competitors so like my hunch tells me that everyone's passion
00:53:15.086 --> 00:53:18.226
for competition is going to keep them in competition realm in some capacity
00:53:18.226 --> 00:53:22.684
so yeah it makes sense um going out improving results,
00:53:23.444 --> 00:53:27.020
can only ever help in what you do yeah
00:53:27.392 --> 00:53:32.056
i mean there you could absolutely just go and open a gym be great family hobbies
00:53:32.056 --> 00:53:36.966
afterwards be great at coaching not coach ace and have no interest in coaching
00:53:36.966 --> 00:53:40.026
competitors which i wouldn't blame you well i'll.
00:53:43.006 --> 00:53:47.410
Successful competitor mentors that I know well who've told me they've,
00:53:48.230 --> 00:53:52.340
intentionally chosen to not get into the competition path because it's a lot of work,
00:53:52.955 --> 00:53:57.440
and competitors tend to kind of bounce around they tend to blame people usually
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:00.578
them the coaches if something doesn't go well so they're kind of like man it's not worth that,
00:54:01.036 --> 00:54:03.390
it's an emotionally investing thing you spend a lot of time with these guys
00:54:03.390 --> 00:54:07.040
because you get really fired up about going to this for example you win like
00:54:07.040 --> 00:54:10.220
a hundred hundred things they lose one and then they blame you and they run
00:54:10.220 --> 00:54:12.500
to the next one you're like crap I did all that he's like I don't like these
00:54:12.500 --> 00:54:13.898
guys have told me like I almost rather just
00:54:14.182 --> 00:54:18.470
do a good family business man seriously well and kids make money
00:54:18.830 --> 00:54:21.530
the kids programs make money right it's yeah the,
00:54:22.010 --> 00:54:26.270
the hobbyists make you money uh-huh competitors don't really make you that money
00:54:26.650 --> 00:54:29.470
they don't want to pay money yeah they don't want to pay they want to take a
00:54:29.470 --> 00:54:30.785
lot of resources and they,
00:54:31.336 --> 00:54:33.650
and and you know obviously we're just talking about like the the situations
00:54:33.650 --> 00:54:38.111
that kind of go south but there's going to be tons and tons of good competitors that.
00:54:39.303 --> 00:54:43.671
Also show loyalty and do bring good prestige and it ends up being a benefit
00:54:43.671 --> 00:54:46.501
for your business but i mean look at you look at the top guys right,
00:54:46.994 --> 00:54:50.861
most of these guys have trained at eight different gyms because they just would
00:54:50.861 --> 00:54:54.351
go wherever you know like they'll be a train in one place something happens
00:54:54.351 --> 00:54:57.901
it splits up or they start losing there so they go somewhere else you know it
00:54:57.901 --> 00:54:59.556
promises them that they'll do better and
00:54:59.835 --> 00:55:02.871
they're just it's just how it is,
00:55:03.491 --> 00:55:06.299
it's pretty common to your point Yeah, it's very common. It's very common.
00:55:06.532 --> 00:55:10.631
I mean, if we were to look at this roster here, and I'm just kind of going off of people that I know.
00:55:11.511 --> 00:55:15.421
In fact, we looked at Chris Wojcik, or I don't even know how to say his name.
00:55:15.421 --> 00:55:19.441
Yeah, Wojcik. Woj, he had Greg in his corner a minute ago. Yeah,
00:55:19.441 --> 00:55:20.751
he was training at standard.
00:55:21.811 --> 00:55:23.961
I didn't know that. He was a B team not that long ago. So yes,
00:55:23.961 --> 00:55:28.631
to your point, people change teams in that space. But he ended up a B team from somewhere else.
00:55:29.091 --> 00:55:32.271
There you go. So he's moved around a little bit. Okay, happens.
00:55:32.613 --> 00:55:36.171
We got Wagner and his family, and his family's under him but he's with Cyborg
00:55:36.171 --> 00:55:38.378
and he seems like he's been with Fight Sports from the rip.
00:55:38.622 --> 00:55:41.411
You have the Six Blades guys. You have Victor Hugo. They seem like they've always
00:55:41.411 --> 00:55:45.651
been Six Blades from the rip and quite frankly, you have Gordon and Donahue.
00:55:45.651 --> 00:55:46.778
Gordon hasn't loved Donahue.
00:55:46.975 --> 00:55:51.641
Not that he's ever needed a reason to but like, and I'm just eyeballing it off
00:55:51.641 --> 00:55:55.648
of like people that I know out there that I'm like, those few people have been
00:55:55.996 --> 00:55:57.961
consistently under the one team.
00:55:57.961 --> 00:56:01.441
So it's like, it's probably like a 50-50 split. I'm totally expecting going
00:56:01.441 --> 00:56:04.561
on the split but the rest of these guys to your point, like fuck i don't know
00:56:04.561 --> 00:56:10.651
we just talked about woge woge just well a decent number of those dudes too like victor hugo and,
00:56:11.291 --> 00:56:14.872
in roja and like all of them like they're,
00:56:15.714 --> 00:56:20.611
they're still like krianchera right like where you don't go train somewhere
00:56:20.611 --> 00:56:23.811
else like there's still a little bit of that where like you know they will mark
00:56:23.811 --> 00:56:26.751
people as traders right like well i don't know about that i mean i don't know
00:56:26.751 --> 00:56:28.346
how like but i don't there's still that.
00:56:29.581 --> 00:56:34.057
Well there's people who do that yeah i don't know if they do specifically i just mean like
00:56:34.254 --> 00:56:38.668
they well you said their names specifically they come from the era where like
00:56:38.668 --> 00:56:42.478
well they're old school yeah well wagner's 44 so he's definitely old school
00:56:42.478 --> 00:56:46.308
but i see him cross train all the time yeah i mean i know you mean the generation
00:56:46.308 --> 00:56:49.045
did that yeah uh victor hugo is only like 20 something
00:56:49.394 --> 00:56:52.163
um and the six play guys are like.
00:56:53.370 --> 00:56:57.652
Shanji is out of austin i believe or he opened a place in austin i don't know
00:56:57.652 --> 00:57:00.182
how long i don't think he's i don't know if he's been there tremendously a long
00:57:00.182 --> 00:57:04.772
time but that's that's shanji hiberro's academy um he's probably around the
00:57:04.772 --> 00:57:07.278
same age maybe a little older than wagner like he's in his 40s so,
00:57:07.916 --> 00:57:11.829
he's also old school but he'd moved around a little bit and like
00:57:12.212 --> 00:57:16.642
so felipe costa who was on that on that same team still still repping six blades
00:57:16.642 --> 00:57:20.827
as well felipe was in this area for a little while um so i just had to say like
00:57:21.152 --> 00:57:24.217
i think some of the newer age guys or a little more
00:57:24.611 --> 00:57:28.147
these guys are kind of like called middle age guys literally and also like,
00:57:28.686 --> 00:57:31.450
jiu-jitsu culturally like there's there's,
00:57:32.007 --> 00:57:34.869
but I think it's a good example dude because like they seem like they've been.
00:57:35.908 --> 00:57:39.118
Consistently on the same team but,
00:57:40.146 --> 00:57:43.912
training all over it's kind of the best of both worlds yeah you know like when
00:57:43.912 --> 00:57:48.542
you bounce around you get a variety those big or like Sixth Blaze is a huge
00:57:48.542 --> 00:57:53.412
organization now it's big I don't know if it's huge It depends on how you define
00:57:53.412 --> 00:57:54.232
a huge. I think it's one of the...
00:57:54.372 --> 00:57:57.362
Because fight sports is big, but it's also not huge. It's regionally very dominant.
00:57:57.362 --> 00:57:59.156
I think Six Blades is bigger.
00:57:59.684 --> 00:58:02.472
I don't know. I mean, I don't know. From my... I mean, from... I see them all the time.
00:58:02.652 --> 00:58:07.143
It looks like they're, you know, they're getting team victories at a lot of different events.
00:58:07.271 --> 00:58:10.731
You know, like, all over. Well, there's Six Blades guys in our area,
00:58:11.126 --> 00:58:14.432
so we see Six Blades a lot. Like, so, Emile's Gym in Alexandria,
00:58:14.432 --> 00:58:17.250
that's a Six Blades academy. Yeah. And so, like, well, it could...
00:58:18.277 --> 00:58:22.132
It could be that. It could be like, we see them a lot because they're in our area, right?
00:58:22.132 --> 00:58:24.912
Like I would even call 10th Planet's pretty big. I don't know if I'd call them
00:58:24.912 --> 00:58:27.492
huge. 10th Planet's pretty widespread. It's big. I mean, they're,
00:58:27.492 --> 00:58:31.532
they're multinational. They are. They are. But, but compared to like Gracie
00:58:31.532 --> 00:58:34.652
Baja. Now that I would say is huge. That's global. That's huge.
00:58:34.712 --> 00:58:37.992
They're, they're probably the biggest organization. I think you're right. Um.
00:58:38.392 --> 00:58:43.472
Um, even Atos. Atos is big. I don't know if I consider them huge. Um.
00:58:45.403 --> 00:58:49.583
It's interesting. Okay, Alliance. That's, I think, another...
00:58:49.583 --> 00:58:53.083
There's a few teams up there that are titans of scalability and reputation.
00:58:53.083 --> 00:58:56.893
Actors is also pretty big. They are big, but are they huge? And now we're kind
00:58:56.893 --> 00:58:58.063
of battling over some of these. Yeah.
00:58:59.703 --> 00:59:04.473
What does huge mean? But it's somewhat relevant insofar as, like you said,
00:59:04.473 --> 00:59:05.833
the ability to move around.
00:59:05.833 --> 00:59:09.223
Some of these guys can't move around and just go to other affiliates and get
00:59:09.223 --> 00:59:13.773
some of what you said, while kind of also maybe pleasing Crianchi's shit,
00:59:13.773 --> 00:59:16.793
too, like you said, where they're like, hey, I actually never left the family,
00:59:16.793 --> 00:59:18.973
but the family's technically just big enough, I can do this.
00:59:18.973 --> 00:59:22.033
You can go and get very different looks at very different places.
00:59:22.033 --> 00:59:26.963
Who was the guy that you competed against in Virginia and Vegas? Was he, he's Baja?
00:59:27.563 --> 00:59:31.813
Well, so he works at Baja, but he's from full prime. Okay, okay, got it.
00:59:32.207 --> 00:59:33.883
Well, just for the sake of conversation, I was just curious,
00:59:33.923 --> 00:59:35.543
because I know he was- He was employed by Gracie Baja.
00:59:35.543 --> 00:59:39.203
And you told me that he got like, they like, like the frigging Catholic Church,
00:59:39.203 --> 00:59:40.383
like we're going to move you over here.
00:59:40.383 --> 00:59:44.203
Yeah, they brought him up from- Which could be kind of a, like going back to
00:59:44.203 --> 00:59:47.591
like the the the career path like maybe working for like,
00:59:48.183 --> 00:59:51.633
apparently these guys have like solid corporate benefits like yeah if you can
00:59:51.633 --> 00:59:55.133
get moved to like i mean it's not a bad thing you think about that to be like
00:59:55.133 --> 00:59:59.600
a part of an organization if you're a decent coach and you compete and you're like yo like,
01:00:00.337 --> 01:00:03.853
i mean i know you're from wherever you like living in houston texas for example
01:00:03.853 --> 01:00:08.586
but we need a coach and we'll pay you yeah you got to go to wherever virginia
01:00:08.760 --> 01:00:13.114
we'll take we we want to send you to well it's like it's kind of like a weird like,
01:00:13.654 --> 01:00:18.133
job stability thing that's kind of like interesting for like a decent size it
01:00:18.133 --> 01:00:21.003
sounds like a pretty good size company it is a big company i mean,
01:00:21.665 --> 01:00:26.094
if that's how they do it well i mean that and that's also like he basically competes.
01:00:26.837 --> 01:00:30.743
Full-time right like he's got the full-time jiu-jitsu guy program yeah i mean
01:00:30.743 --> 01:00:34.610
he he works there like all day right he works there like every day every week,
01:00:35.213 --> 01:00:38.929
and then competes like every weekend essentially like it's not it's a,
01:00:39.648 --> 01:00:44.647
it's another way to make it work there Like, that's another pathway of like, hey, he might not be.
01:00:46.163 --> 01:00:51.881
Okay. Okay. Well, you know, dude, I don't know if we have much more to talk
01:00:51.881 --> 01:00:58.111
about on these events and career paths and jutsu-ing. But I will find us a combat confession!
01:01:01.451 --> 01:01:04.811
Yeah. Combat confessions.
01:01:07.402 --> 01:01:14.161
BJJ isn't gay, bro. This is just a video of two dudes at UFC BJJ kissing each
01:01:14.161 --> 01:01:15.262
other at weigh-ins. It's fine.
01:01:16.171 --> 01:01:17.775
Really? Yeah, that's what it is.
01:01:19.031 --> 01:01:23.412
Nice. No. Not that one.
01:01:25.971 --> 01:01:27.040
No.
01:01:30.668 --> 01:01:34.499
This dude's on his way back from a BJJ class, and he's like,
01:01:34.499 --> 01:01:39.678
I had to leave really quickly because my rash card made me look like a sausage.
01:01:42.545 --> 01:01:47.029
Wow. Yeah. And he left because of that. Well, he made sure to leave immediately
01:01:47.029 --> 01:01:50.816
afterwards because he felt like he was busting out.
01:01:53.469 --> 01:01:57.709
Oh, he's a fatty? Yeah. Oh, okay. That's what he's saying. It's just his face.
01:01:58.009 --> 01:02:02.599
I was like, is there like some type of like sausage colored rash guard?
01:02:02.599 --> 01:02:05.539
I don't know about. No, no, no. I think he's just saying that he's busting,
01:02:05.539 --> 01:02:08.516
busting out because he's fat. Ah, big deal.
01:02:09.851 --> 01:02:16.451
Oh, this dude went to the ER and on the, uh, for rib pain.
01:02:16.973 --> 01:02:24.789
Um, and on the, uh, on the intake form, it referred to it as a karate accident.
01:02:25.565 --> 01:02:29.594
Awesome. Yeah. there you go see people they really do think that uh,
01:02:30.644 --> 01:02:37.215
that it's karate out in the whole wide world oh yeah here's what this might not be like a,
01:02:38.115 --> 01:02:44.069
full-on uh a full-on combat confession confession but did you see that tatami
01:02:44.069 --> 01:02:46.333
dropped like a autism line,
01:02:47.289 --> 01:02:52.521
of gear what um it's it's like in collaboration with tom hardy um.
01:02:55.429 --> 01:03:01.389
I'm gonna find is tom hardy like a uh it got properly diagnosed autist well
01:03:01.389 --> 01:03:03.121
i don't know he's got like a um,
01:03:04.009 --> 01:03:13.599
he has a i guess like a charity or something okay okay it's an awareness thing but like dude it's um.
01:03:15.254 --> 01:03:25.818
It's a little a little questionable there was some uh questionable potentially uh nazi imagery no it,
01:03:26.438 --> 01:03:30.918
the whole line is now gone they've removed it from their website someone's gonna
01:03:30.918 --> 01:03:36.001
have a screenshot um nazi i'm gonna find it it's called the outsiders,
01:03:36.714 --> 01:03:41.438
collection it's really bad dude like it's uh this is gonna be our combat confession
01:03:41.438 --> 01:03:44.093
yeah i mean it was this was like last week and now it's gone
01:03:44.463 --> 01:03:49.638
so like they must have realized oh we fucked up um update looks like tatami
01:03:49.638 --> 01:03:52.131
dropped the entire outsiders
01:03:52.508 --> 01:03:55.864
like here we go look at this yeah it straight up has like an ss on it,
01:03:56.752 --> 01:04:02.018
outsider social club yeah it has lightning bolts yeah it's a little uh halt
01:04:02.358 --> 01:04:07.838
skull bones two lightning bolts but yeah i mean this can't be just a coincidence
01:04:07.838 --> 01:04:11.468
right brain using ss lightning and new merch, 21 hours.
01:04:12.054 --> 01:04:17.448
I mean, I think it isn't specifically that, but like the Outsiders,
01:04:17.448 --> 01:04:19.618
they had like stuff that was like Neuro Spicy.
01:04:19.998 --> 01:04:22.276
Neuro Spicy was what it said. What's Neuro Spicy?
01:04:23.218 --> 01:04:25.278
This is like a little corny catchphrase they're trying to create.
01:04:25.278 --> 01:04:29.418
Yeah, it's like, it's a little... Sounds like hashtags that I don't know about,
01:04:29.418 --> 01:04:30.914
dude. Yeah, I mean, I don't...
01:04:32.458 --> 01:04:35.408
I don't know if I should be mad or not. I don't know. I don't know how to interpret
01:04:35.408 --> 01:04:37.418
this. It's definitely like a weird shake.
01:04:38.058 --> 01:04:43.838
Well, they went with an autism thing. took it down within i mean within days
01:04:43.838 --> 01:04:49.038
of it going up um well and i guess people thought they're like oh like this
01:04:49.038 --> 01:04:50.534
is nazi shit but also like,
01:04:51.596 --> 01:04:54.038
uh yeah.
01:04:56.438 --> 01:05:00.786
Nazi autists yeah a little weird to like,
01:05:02.456 --> 01:05:06.735
They were just pulling the one design, but it looks like the entire collection was dropped.
01:05:07.129 --> 01:05:09.245
Yeah, I mean, like, I saw the email. I wonder if I could find out.
01:05:09.345 --> 01:05:10.659
So what was Tom Hardy's involvement in it?
01:05:11.106 --> 01:05:13.325
I mean, he was like a... Like the celebrity endorser of it? Yeah,
01:05:13.325 --> 01:05:15.245
that's what it looks like. He was tagging in it? He was like...
01:05:15.905 --> 01:05:21.154
I remember getting the email and being like, is that Tom Hardy?
01:05:22.019 --> 01:05:24.817
What the fuck is this? Babe.
01:05:25.688 --> 01:05:29.188
Like, it was a very strange...
01:05:30.085 --> 01:05:31.789
I know I got an email for this.
01:05:32.787 --> 01:05:37.015
Well just before even get into the details the fact that they i'm not sure what
01:05:37.015 --> 01:05:41.605
they're going for with that but like when outsiders is a really weird i don't
01:05:41.605 --> 01:05:47.066
know like if you're trying to do autism awareness to like immediately say they're like call them,
01:05:47.630 --> 01:05:50.915
i mean you're you're saying they're outsiders like i don't know i don't know
01:05:50.915 --> 01:05:54.255
what they're doing weird angle just in general like yeah i'd be curious what
01:05:54.255 --> 01:05:57.965
their strategy was i'm willing to i'm willing to give them the benefit of the
01:05:57.965 --> 01:06:00.389
doubt that like they just thought lightning bolts are cool,
01:06:00.993 --> 01:06:05.285
you know like yeah i doubt that I doubt that the people in marketing,
01:06:06.380 --> 01:06:10.321
at Tatami were thinking to themselves, not only are we going to offend autists,
01:06:10.548 --> 01:06:12.595
but let's also put in some Nazi shit.
01:06:12.595 --> 01:06:17.675
Let's go double down on extreme shit. Let's just go after everyone.
01:06:17.675 --> 01:06:21.072
Yeah, let's make everyone mad. I doubt that was their intention.
01:06:21.537 --> 01:06:24.102
I'm curious to know what their intention was.
01:06:25.228 --> 01:06:29.356
Is it like, let's normalize, let's make it cool, let's maybe do a compassionate thing here?
01:06:29.977 --> 01:06:31.295
Because Outsider sounds like
01:06:31.295 --> 01:06:37.265
a bizarre, like weird attempt to like come up like a cool name for that.
01:06:37.645 --> 01:06:41.245
I still don't really know who. Is it like people who kind of joke about autism and jujitsu?
01:06:41.645 --> 01:06:44.815
Is it for people legitimately with autism? That was one of the things.
01:06:44.815 --> 01:06:48.041
I don't know. It felt like a weird.
01:06:48.975 --> 01:06:50.508
Yeah, it's weird. It just didn't.
01:06:51.962 --> 01:06:54.502
It was like, who is this for?
01:06:56.822 --> 01:07:01.770
That was the weird part about it. It's just like, who are we selling this to?
01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:04.341
Why is Tom Hardy selling this?
01:07:05.362 --> 01:07:08.859
I think the Tommies, that's an English group, right? Their English company? Yes.
01:07:09.061 --> 01:07:16.252
But it was just strange. Here's the taglines or the different lines they had.
01:07:16.252 --> 01:07:18.053
It was the Outsiders Social Club.
01:07:19.598 --> 01:07:27.442
All dhd grips the odd hd grip and neuro spicy rollers guild like these are not
01:07:27.442 --> 01:07:30.222
like well they're trying to like they're like trying to be funny is what it
01:07:30.222 --> 01:07:32.612
sounds like it's just like a weird like all right is this,
01:07:33.093 --> 01:07:34.982
an awareness thing or are we,
01:07:35.502 --> 01:07:37.765
poking like i don't know it's just like a strange.
01:07:39.036 --> 01:07:44.732
Uh one of them says bold phrases oh uh striking colors in bold phrases like
01:07:44.732 --> 01:07:50.102
zero eye contact like it just the the the comment that no that was
01:07:50.502 --> 01:07:55.142
one of the designs no way like it just doesn't seem like it's like interesting,
01:07:55.682 --> 01:07:59.282
it was very much like i remember seeing like are they just making fun of autistic
01:07:59.282 --> 01:08:01.702
people i doubt that was with their maybe they're trying to think that was the
01:08:01.702 --> 01:08:06.362
intention i'm just saying like maybe they're just trying to well the delivery
01:08:06.362 --> 01:08:09.571
which seems like it leaves a little bit to be desired maybe they're just trying to like,
01:08:10.604 --> 01:08:14.422
have a little fun and kind of like normalized it's like hey like autists are
01:08:14.422 --> 01:08:16.374
like people with senses of humor too,
01:08:16.902 --> 01:08:19.562
hopefully aren't getting mad at me saying autists it's just a
01:08:19.942 --> 01:08:23.982
it was a strange marketing tactic to raise money for like autism charities because
01:08:23.982 --> 01:08:28.462
that is that what it said it was for autism charities okay which is good but
01:08:28.462 --> 01:08:32.686
like a weird thing like hey we're gonna uh we're gonna around kind of,
01:08:33.422 --> 01:08:35.602
we're gonna get a little fast and loose with our,
01:08:36.582 --> 01:08:42.855
with our our branding here to try to We're gonna sell stuff that's kind of slightly,
01:08:43.105 --> 01:08:47.377
that might piss off the people within the group we're raising money for, and you know,
01:08:48.056 --> 01:08:51.762
Just a weird way to try to make that money. Yeah. That's all I'm getting at.
01:08:53.062 --> 01:08:56.572
They tried to get a little, like, fun and different. It sounds like it didn't
01:08:56.572 --> 01:09:00.122
work out. But, oh, okay. They pulled it, huh? So they pulled it completely?
01:09:00.122 --> 01:09:03.572
Oh, completely gone. Okay. The entire line is gone. Because I was trying to
01:09:03.572 --> 01:09:05.825
find it to see if it was still up. But no, like.
01:09:06.190 --> 01:09:09.312
Dang, they ripped the cord. So not exactly a combat confession,
01:09:09.312 --> 01:09:12.212
but definitely, like. That's the funny thing. A weird thing that happened in
01:09:12.212 --> 01:09:15.202
the world of jujitsu. Yeah, I don't think we should burn them or anything. No.
01:09:15.602 --> 01:09:19.882
It's just they tried something different. I don't think they had malice.
01:09:21.462 --> 01:09:25.602
I think it was just someone trying to raise money and do it.
01:09:26.802 --> 01:09:30.542
If the guy who threw in the Lightning SS was like, I'm throwing at malice.
01:09:32.162 --> 01:09:35.342
He's like, just in case someone notices. I'm not blaming the company,
01:09:35.342 --> 01:09:36.842
but there was definitely someone.
01:09:36.842 --> 01:09:40.012
There might have been a dude there who was like. With malice.
01:09:40.012 --> 01:09:42.942
He was like, you know what? I bet you I can get this past him.
01:09:42.942 --> 01:09:46.262
He's like, yeah, yeah, exactly. He's like, no, you don't want it. Okay, I'm taking it.
01:09:46.262 --> 01:09:48.892
I'm just checking to see if you guys are paying attention. He was like,
01:09:48.892 --> 01:09:52.362
fuck the autistic people and fuck the Jews. If he had, yeah,
01:09:52.362 --> 01:09:55.332
if he had like a wristband with an autistic, like with the SS,
01:09:55.332 --> 01:09:57.552
I'd say, all right, buddy, we're getting a little, oh, sorry,
01:09:57.552 --> 01:09:58.962
not a wrist, like a bicep, you know, like a...
01:09:59.102 --> 01:10:02.762
The armband. Yeah. I have seen that popping up on some jujitsu geese,
01:10:02.762 --> 01:10:04.053
and it's a little weird. Really?
01:10:04.682 --> 01:10:06.882
Jujitero released one. They didn't have the lightning bolts.
01:10:06.882 --> 01:10:10.392
It didn't have the lightning bolts, but it has like a straight up like armband.
01:10:10.392 --> 01:10:12.062
Oh, that's okay. That's okay.
01:10:12.462 --> 01:10:17.022
I remember someone walking in, I'm like, what the fuck is that? Yeah. Like, why?
01:10:17.922 --> 01:10:20.592
You just need to look out for the guy who, like, got that gi and then went out
01:10:20.592 --> 01:10:23.192
of his way to stitch a couple lightning bolts on the thing. Yeah,
01:10:23.192 --> 01:10:26.502
put a patch right on the wrist, the armband.
01:10:27.282 --> 01:10:30.462
Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's just, like, getting a little weird.
01:10:31.482 --> 01:10:35.080
It's weird. Yeah. The internet, well, okay.
01:10:35.422 --> 01:10:38.182
So they bowed, they acquiesced to the replies to the internet,
01:10:38.502 --> 01:10:39.677
as one does, I guess, in...
01:10:40.368 --> 01:10:44.214
A company that they probably realized that the people they were trying to raise
01:10:44.214 --> 01:10:48.254
money for didn't like it i'm gonna guess that that's maybe i actually i'd be
01:10:48.254 --> 01:10:50.914
willing to bet the people that were raising money for didn't say anything because
01:10:50.914 --> 01:10:52.334
you're ready to money for them it's probably like it's just,
01:10:52.794 --> 01:10:56.734
the usual internet like onslaught of comments they're probably like yeah fuck
01:10:56.734 --> 01:10:59.094
it man we'll just do this differently we won't do it at all,
01:10:59.614 --> 01:11:02.784
the authors the authors might have been like fucking commenters ruined we had
01:11:02.784 --> 01:11:05.714
a thing that was good it was gonna be tight we're gonna get some money nice
01:11:05.714 --> 01:11:10.474
charity that's over i was the other ones are just kind of like weird but the
01:11:10.474 --> 01:11:12.434
zero eye contact thing is a little bit,
01:11:13.014 --> 01:11:16.434
a little that's a little fun it's a little they're poking some fun and like
01:11:16.794 --> 01:11:19.994
again maybe it's like haha like the autistic autistic people with a good sense
01:11:19.994 --> 01:11:21.994
of humor like all right nice like yeah that's us,
01:11:22.534 --> 01:11:26.594
lol cool high five knuckles we're wrestling we're doing jiu-jitsu i don't know
01:11:26.594 --> 01:11:29.244
but you're right that is definitely kind of being like let's play with the symptoms
01:11:29.244 --> 01:11:30.954
a little bit yeah that's a little,
01:11:31.454 --> 01:11:36.014
the all dhd thing kind of could be funny but i also don't know enough about
01:11:36.014 --> 01:11:38.521
that it's like now we're just making fun of people with all kinds of stuff
01:11:38.944 --> 01:11:40.663
okay and i'm not a sensitive person
01:11:40.785 --> 01:11:44.494
i just wouldn't buy it but i just feel like the target group was the
01:11:44.901 --> 01:11:48.254
we still don't know who the target group really is to me it's just gonna bet
01:11:48.254 --> 01:11:50.555
we know they were allegedly on paper supposed to
01:11:50.925 --> 01:11:55.224
they're gonna be benefactors of this yeah yeah like i still don't know like
01:11:55.224 --> 01:11:57.854
yeah are you selling people with autism or people most likely there's gonna
01:11:57.854 --> 01:12:00.474
be people who are like that's kind of funny i'll buy it yeah well or maybe a
01:12:00.474 --> 01:12:03.754
couple nazis who are like nice finally some ss jiu-jitsu gear yeah dude.
01:12:05.414 --> 01:12:08.614
I feel like i see it being purchased by,
01:12:09.114 --> 01:12:13.904
the guys who like doing jiu-jitsu who joke about being autistic yes i agree
01:12:13.904 --> 01:12:16.794
you know what i mean that's that's just who i see if we steal them in that position
01:12:16.794 --> 01:12:19.044
that's i think that's what they're going for they're like let's have some fun
01:12:19.044 --> 01:12:22.234
with this whole thing like mikey music you know mikey makes his jokes like haha,
01:12:22.734 --> 01:12:25.744
let's let's see if we can find some let's see if we can do something This could
01:12:25.744 --> 01:12:27.164
either be a hit or a total flop.
01:12:27.164 --> 01:12:32.114
Well, we know which one it sounds like. The only issue is there are actually people with autism.
01:12:33.014 --> 01:12:34.491
Yeah. The people who,
01:12:35.037 --> 01:12:40.204
i guess work with and take care of and live with these people tend to
01:12:40.575 --> 01:12:43.706
not well they could be they could they could definitely rub that the wrong way
01:12:43.706 --> 01:12:47.006
yeah for sure like or they could be rubbed the wrong way because it's a real
01:12:47.006 --> 01:12:50.106
thing you know it's like a little different than like autism is a real thing
01:12:50.106 --> 01:12:54.850
yeah yeah yeah it is yeah there's other jokes that like people don't take as serious
01:12:55.273 --> 01:13:00.899
personally or seriously i guess right um well they tried i guess they tried they tried they tried,
01:13:01.549 --> 01:13:03.266
Yeah, that was something that I saw.
01:13:03.266 --> 01:13:07.166
Again, when you scale out the other crimes that have taken place in Jiu-Jitsu,
01:13:07.166 --> 01:13:10.426
that one's not so bad. No, it's really, it's... They tried to be a little edgy and fun.
01:13:10.986 --> 01:13:14.674
You know, they... It's just... They cut it off before it became something that could really back...
01:13:15.326 --> 01:13:18.026
Before there's, like, thousands of people wearing these things that,
01:13:18.026 --> 01:13:21.706
like, IBJJF fans... The SS one I didn't even notice. That's hilarious.
01:13:22.446 --> 01:13:24.466
That I didn't notice until I saw, though. You spotted it and you're like,
01:13:24.466 --> 01:13:27.146
what is that? Is that the fucking SS? Well, no, it was just the...
01:13:27.446 --> 01:13:31.486
That was a Reddit post. It was like, look, they put this Nazi stuff on the things i'm like,
01:13:32.186 --> 01:13:35.906
what the reddit i didn't even notice that one when i got the email i just saw
01:13:35.906 --> 01:13:39.437
like well we can thank reddit for telling us what to be pissed about yeah i guess,
01:13:40.133 --> 01:13:44.816
i still that one i'm still like eh it's not dude that's not really what was
01:13:44.816 --> 01:13:47.476
not we're reaching but i guess guys i don't think you need to be upset about
01:13:47.476 --> 01:13:50.336
the other if you're an internet troll though sometimes you kind of take whatever
01:13:50.336 --> 01:13:52.805
you can get you're like let's see what else can i shit on oh,
01:13:53.467 --> 01:13:57.736
i like that and like you know there's no shortage of like nazi talk on the internet
01:13:57.736 --> 01:14:00.386
so they're probably like dude I bet I can turn this into a Nazi thing, too.
01:14:00.386 --> 01:14:04.566
They must have just decided that, like, they weren't, they, uh, they're like, well.
01:14:05.971 --> 01:14:09.518
I don't know if I can be pissed off about the autism stuff or not. With the Nazi shit.
01:14:09.518 --> 01:14:12.618
But I can, people will be pissed off about this. People are always going to
01:14:12.618 --> 01:14:17.008
be pissed off about Nazis, so that's, you can count on that if you're trying to get rage.
01:14:17.008 --> 01:14:19.588
Trying to rage bait, that'll definitely work. Like, I don't know if I'd say
01:14:19.588 --> 01:14:22.798
I'm pissed off about this, but I wouldn't say I'm pissed off about the tatami
01:14:22.798 --> 01:14:24.998
thing, but I'm just kind of like, that's a weird choice. Yeah,
01:14:24.998 --> 01:14:28.598
yeah, yeah. Yeah, for sure weird. That was definitely my entire reaction to
01:14:28.598 --> 01:14:31.658
it, but, but yeah. Hilarious.
01:14:31.978 --> 01:14:33.538
That was fire drinking coffee, guys. Yeah.
01:14:34.263 --> 01:14:37.398
You won't be able to buy any of that tatami gear doesn't exist anymore.
01:14:37.718 --> 01:14:39.748
Well, if it didn't work for that, maybe we'll give it a try.
01:14:39.748 --> 01:14:43.338
If you bought it, if you bought some, send us a picture, please.
01:14:44.158 --> 01:14:46.348
I want to see what this stuff looks like. They might have canceled all those
01:14:46.348 --> 01:14:50.024
orders. I bet they refunded some people. Dude, I bet you they canceled or refunded every single one.
01:14:50.718 --> 01:14:53.498
They're like, fuck, people don't like this. We cannot let this get out.
01:14:53.498 --> 01:14:56.738
Erase it from the world. Delete it from the internet.
01:14:57.538 --> 01:14:59.968
That was Fights Drinking Coffee. We love you guys. Like, subscribe,
01:14:59.968 --> 01:15:03.921
review. Leave a comment. Bye. See ya.