Talking Heads, Dave Matthews & George Harrison! NC Mastering Engineer TELLS ALL

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Language: en
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mastering is this entire different
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mindset where you're approaching it from
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a very technical point of view, but then
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the other half of that 50% is doing all
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those technical things in order to
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emotionally translate what the artist is
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going for. So, I did this to the first
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Traveling Wilbur's record when they do
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the D and they start in the song like
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George Harrison screws up the part, but
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when you take out the distractive stuff
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that's in the middle, all of a sudden
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you realize like, oh, thank God George
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Harrison's screwing it up like I would.
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>> You started to tell us a story on our
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call about Jerry Harrison, you know,
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checking the 5.1 talking head masters.
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And just to be sitting in a room with a
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guy who did it, and just to sort of like
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get his perspective from creating it,
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being in that moment, whatever external
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substances maybe have been influencing
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what they were doing, it it was just
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incredible.
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>> The Fidelity Exchange, real
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conversations for people who take
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listening seriously. Hey everyone,
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welcome to the Fidelity Exchange. I'm
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Drew Baird, founder of Moon Audio. And
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today I'm talking with someone that has
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been in this industry since he was 16
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years old. A Berkeley trained producer,
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a recording engineer, a mastering
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engineer who has worked with everyone
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from Mary Chapman Carpenter to Dave
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Matthews Camp to ORE and who spent three
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months in a room with Jerry Harrison
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from the Talking Heads checking 5.1
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surround remixes of the entire catalog.
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He's now built what I describe as a
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dream mastering room right here in our
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backyard in North Carolina and he
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happened to be a longtime Moon Audio
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customer. Kevin Mcnoldi, welcome to the
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Fidelity Exchange. Great to finally do
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this.
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>> Great to talk to you. Thanks for having
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me.
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>> Yeah, my pleasure. So, you've been doing
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this since you were 16. What was the
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original obsession? Was it music or was
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it the recording of it?
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>> Uh, for me, I was very creative in
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writing songs since I was a little kid.
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The songwriting process was never
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finished until I recorded it. And back
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then it was like cassettes and then a
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four track and then an eight track. And
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so, you know, very limited technology,
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but always that thought of like this
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isn't a song until it's recorded. So,
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that just became my lifelong obsession.
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At 16, that's a pretty young age to sort
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of think about this now.
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>> Uh, it's just it I'm very strange and
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I've been like this since birth. So, um,
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yeah, I I started quitting all of the
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swim team and the track team and that as
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I got into my teen years because all I
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wanted to do was write and record songs
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and be around music and they sometimes
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would play some of the songs that I'd
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recorded on the morning announcements in
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my high school. So, you know, just this
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weird kid who's just obsessed with uh
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with audio and sound and songwriting,
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but really how that translates into
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sound. So, then let's see, you you go to
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Berkeley, then to Nashville, then
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Virginia, and in Virginia, things
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started to really take off. Seven Mary 3
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or major label work. What was that
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stretch like? And were you what were you
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thinking as a career at that point? Or
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were you just following the work or what
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was going on? I I left Berkeley. I went
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to Nashville. I was doing jingles when I
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first got there. Um and then
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>> Sing one for me.
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>> Yeah. There there was a lot of stuff
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then. And there was uh it's a very
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strange industry and it's different now,
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but back then you used to sort of like
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they'd throw out ideas of what they had
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some of these bigger companies and then
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you would have like a day to prepare
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something and whoever had the best one
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would sort of get paid to go to the next
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level and see what they could get out of
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that. So that that was like CocaCola,
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Ballet's Fitness, um Huggies, like just
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stuff everywhere. and and that led to me
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going, you know, this is great work.
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It's abundant, but I want to be
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producing records. So, when I left
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Nashville and went to Virginia, it was
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all about setting up to produce, mix,
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engineer, all that kind of thing.
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>> How did you run into Dave Matthews?
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>> I was in Virginia uh when he started
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sort of picking up. So, he was playing
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every Tuesday night at a a club, local
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club called Tracks. And you know it just
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kind of exploded from there. And what
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happened was uh the area started getting
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a lot of attention. So all these other
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artists that I work with, you know, are
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incredible in their own right. But there
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was a lot of attention paid on the area.
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So Dave Matthews kind of like the high
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tide lifted all boats and uh Seven Mary
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3 came out of that era and I it it just
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kept growing from there. So, a lot of
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bands got signed out of that time in
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central Virginia. A lot of stuff getting
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noticed. So, it was just kind of like,
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you know, take advantage of everything
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that's happening.
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>> Amen. So, Crystal Fonic was a massive
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undertaking. $5 million, four control
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rooms designed by a firm out of London.
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How did you go from a 430 ft room
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outside of your house?
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>> Uh, it's this is part of going to
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Berkeley. This is part of like working
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in studios my whole life and just being
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around this. And it was just a thing of
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like there was nothing that size and
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that scope in Virginia at that time. So
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it was all about just, you know, let's
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build the one that can draw people here.
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And it did.
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>> And it sort of happened by accident,
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right?
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>> Uh building the studio,
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>> the whole crystalic thing, right? I
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think there's some sort of origin story,
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the mastering origin story there. Uh
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well the mastering uh uh it was more
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like over the years I had been producing
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records and engineering a lot and mixing
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everything that I worked on and I hadn't
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been formally trained as a mastering
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engineer but I a lot of the projects
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that I did I got to work with some of
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the best mastering engineers in the
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country and so I would just go in and
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absorb their sort of like mindset and
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their approach to things and so when
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Crystal Fonic was built it was sort of
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an allin facility where each of the
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control rooms served a different purpose
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but it led to an upstairs room that was
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the mastering room which kind of became
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my hideway
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>> and so mastering really became the focus
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for you right was it a deliberate piv p
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pivot or
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>> it's something that once I really dug in
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and started getting noticed for the
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mastering work it's just something that
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my ears are tuned to it and it I like
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the mindset of it uh a lot of the
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production and the engineering is you
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know getting in on the ground level and
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really building a song from scratch. The
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mixing is taking all those tracks that
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were created per song and congealing
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them together and blending them into the
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the proper final solution. And then
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mastering is this entire different
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mindset where you're approaching it from
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a very technical point of view. It's all
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about having really balanced ears and
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really good gear that you can get inside
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the sound and taking out any anomalies,
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taking out any frequency imbalances or
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dynamic shifts that aren't good. But
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then the other half of that 50% is doing
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all those technical things in order to
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emotionally translate what the artist is
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going for. And you mentioned on our call
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that you had a band come in early on,
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the label paid for separate mastering
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engineer, and then they like what you
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did better. Is is that the moment that
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really things took off for you?
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>> Yeah, there was a a couple projects like
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that where I'm all about competition.
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Berkeley was a lot like that. A lot of
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friendly competition. And there were a
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few things like that where I think it's
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that focus on really trying to get into
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the emotion of the what the artist is
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trying to express. So, it's not just
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technical knowhow with mastering. It's
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not just balancing things and getting
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volumes correct. It's every little
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emotional cue, including, you know, a
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song ends, it's a certain style of song
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or it's a certain aggression
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and the pause between songs is an
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emotional beat. So, there's even stuff
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like that of just, you know, going
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through, feeling it out, uh, getting the
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songs lined up, and each one translating
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the best way that it can because the end
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goal is that you, as an end listener,
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put the headphones on, get absorbed into
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that sound. And nothing that I've done,
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whether it's any point of that process,
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distracts you from really experiencing
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what the artist wants you to feel. And
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you said something interesting on a call
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call that stuck with me in that 80% of
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music is now listened to on headphones.
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For someone who spent building, you
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know, building lots of years building
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acoustical perfect rooms, how did that
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change how you work? It's equal parts.
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Uh you feel hopeless cuz you're like,
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why do why do I go to all this trouble?
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>> Yeah. But it's it's also uh this is it's
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great because it starts equalizing the
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experience for the end listener, you
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know, like these rooms. Uh there's a lot
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of projects along the path and I've been
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doing this, you know, for a long time,
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four almost four decades at this point.
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Um and it's gone from this thing where
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studios were this magical palace that
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cost a ton of money and you can't do
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that at home. you have to go to the
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studio to make that kind of stuff
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happen. And then there's moments where
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technology
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creeps in and makes it so you can do it
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at home and it's a lot cheaper. And then
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there's moments where it creeps in and
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you know now we have AI mastering. So
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now I'm competing against computer
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algorithms. All along that way, uh, as
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this trickles down to the end consumer,
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it becomes that you, uh, you're no
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longer fighting through the sound in
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order to experience what the artist
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intended. It's more that, uh, you're
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getting a front row seat to exactly what
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we spend all this time and money trying
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to achieve. and you do something
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different than some of the other
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mastering engineers and and um recording
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engineers I talk to is you actually
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start mastering on headphones first,
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right? Walk us through what that
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actually looks like. What are you
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listening for and how do you know when
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it's right?
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>> Yeah, it's a combination of things. Like
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I never finish without checking on
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speakers just to hear it in a room and
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hear how moods of the air and make sure
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the emotional impact that I felt was
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there in the headphones translates. But
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these days since it's like 75 to 80% of
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all listening is done on headphones. So
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you have to live in that world. You have
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to really make sure the experience comes
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through properly. And I find that
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starting with that really helps me just
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get into the artist's head, into the
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mixing engineer's head. And there's a
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lot of uh technical stuff that's done in
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this realm. There's a lot of subtle
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adjustments, but the the end goal is
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always that emotional connection. And
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it's interesting, you know, uh, 10, 15
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years ago, this would have been
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flip-flop, right? You know, most of the
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engineers that I was talking to, they
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were doing all of their work on speakers
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and then they use the headphones as
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their check tool. Now, I mean, it's just
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crazy how it's turned full circle. And,
00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:10.710
you know, in all of these conversations
00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:13.190
I'm having now in present today, you
00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.069
know, I I keep promoting, you know, um,
00:11:16.079 --> 00:11:18.630
obviously, let's get out of this COVID
00:11:18.640 --> 00:11:20.870
exclusion experience by yourself. Let's
00:11:20.880 --> 00:11:23.030
listen together. You know, I'm hoping
00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:25.269
this sort of goes the opposite direction
00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:26.790
again, right? We get back to listening
00:11:26.800 --> 00:11:28.710
to more speakers. I mean, I, you know, I
00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:30.630
love headphones. I've used headphones.
00:11:30.640 --> 00:11:34.389
Gosh, I mean, since I was uh DJing, um,
00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:36.470
back in, you know, the 80s and 90s, I
00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:37.590
started on headphones, right? That's
00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:40.230
what you had to do as a DJ. And and
00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:42.230
essentially, you know, I I love
00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:44.230
headphones, but I my passion is really
00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.389
speakers first and foremost. You know, I
00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:48.389
really like the 3D dimensionality, but
00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.069
when I really want to listen to nuances,
00:11:50.079 --> 00:11:51.910
I listen to headphones because, you
00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:53.110
know, you're going to pick up things in
00:11:53.120 --> 00:11:54.150
headphones that you're never going to
00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:56.150
pick up in speakers. Like, I always use
00:11:56.160 --> 00:11:58.069
this analogy to customers trying to
00:11:58.079 --> 00:11:59.430
figure out what they want to do is, you
00:11:59.440 --> 00:12:01.430
know, I've got this Patricia Barber
00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:03.910
album that was recorded in a jazz club
00:12:03.920 --> 00:12:06.069
in in Chicago. And I've listened to that
00:12:06.079 --> 00:12:09.110
albums a million times on speakers. And
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:10.629
one time I, you know, the first time I
00:12:10.639 --> 00:12:12.550
listened to it on headphones, I could
00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:13.990
hear a waitress behind me picking up
00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.509
dishes off of a table because they had
00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:16.790
miked. They had miked the whole room.
00:12:16.800 --> 00:12:18.710
Like mics were all over the place. And
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:20.310
that was the first time I ever picked up
00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:22.389
on that. And it really it really shows
00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.550
you how many nuances that you can truly
00:12:24.560 --> 00:12:26.230
pick up with headphones over speakers,
00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.310
even if they're up close and personal
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:30.150
monitors in front of you. I mean, I I I
00:12:30.160 --> 00:12:31.750
doubt you probably I doubt I would have
00:12:31.760 --> 00:12:32.790
heard that. I would have thought of that
00:12:32.800 --> 00:12:34.790
as some sort of artifact. And if I was a
00:12:34.800 --> 00:12:36.150
mastering engineer, I might have gotten
00:12:36.160 --> 00:12:37.670
rid of that. You know what I mean? like
00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:39.910
with speakers. Um I think what's
00:12:39.920 --> 00:12:42.389
happening is it will come back around.
00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:44.230
It's that the technology there's a lot
00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:45.670
of stuff happening right now in the
00:12:45.680 --> 00:12:49.110
proauudio realm where in headphones
00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.829
they're creating room simulation. Uh
00:12:51.839 --> 00:12:53.670
there's uh a pair of headphones I use
00:12:53.680 --> 00:12:56.230
called Slate BSX that are for
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.389
professional mixing and mastering. And
00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:00.310
the big deal with that is it integrates
00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:02.550
with a plugin that simulates a room
00:13:02.560 --> 00:13:04.710
environment. So basically, it's
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.470
headphones that are giving me what I
00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:09.670
have in this room. Um, as that trickles
00:13:09.680 --> 00:13:11.829
down to consumer,
00:13:11.839 --> 00:13:14.870
uh, then everybody's going to have even
00:13:14.880 --> 00:13:16.710
more of an experience like that. But
00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:19.190
speakers are also in the proauudio realm
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:22.230
starting to move that way where there's
00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:24.389
integrated room correction built into
00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.190
the speakers. The biggest problem with
00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:30.310
speakers, studio monitors, is they can
00:13:30.320 --> 00:13:32.949
only be as good as the room. So
00:13:32.959 --> 00:13:35.190
acoustically there has to be some kind
00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:36.870
of correction built in because nobody's
00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:39.030
got a perfect room or you got to spend
00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:40.550
this kind of money with all this stuff
00:13:40.560 --> 00:13:43.269
everywhere and who's going to do that?
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.389
Um, so like we're right now on the cusp
00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.790
of another big break where speakers will
00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:53.430
get cheaper for consumers. Speakers will
00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:55.829
have more technology built into them and
00:13:55.839 --> 00:13:59.509
you'll be able to put a huge uh Dolby
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.710
Atmos system in your house for way I
00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.910
mean this like for uh TVs for like
00:14:05.920 --> 00:14:07.590
watching films at home and setting up
00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:10.389
Dolby Atmos sets that technology is
00:14:10.399 --> 00:14:12.949
there for like just music listening. I
00:14:12.959 --> 00:14:14.550
think that's kind of the next thing
00:14:14.560 --> 00:14:16.230
because pro audio is there right now.
00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:19.030
There's all the emails I get are like uh
00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:21.590
it's either headphones systems that
00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:23.509
simulate rooms or it's speakers are
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:26.230
starting to integrate room correction
00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:27.910
with the whole package.
00:14:27.920 --> 00:14:29.670
>> Yeah. And I've been doing DSP for
00:14:29.680 --> 00:14:31.509
probably about 20 years because my first
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:34.470
passion I actually when I went to Penn
00:14:34.480 --> 00:14:36.389
State uh to become an engineer was I was
00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:37.910
an EE and I was going to get into
00:14:37.920 --> 00:14:39.750
acoustical engineering because I wanted
00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:42.230
to design and manufacture speakers. So,
00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:44.310
I I I changed my mind early on because
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.710
this is way before the internet and and
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:48.870
and the ability to market speakers back
00:14:48.880 --> 00:14:50.870
then was all in, you know, rag magazines
00:14:50.880 --> 00:14:54.230
and and how how good a review you got
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:55.990
and who you knew was the way you'd make
00:14:56.000 --> 00:14:57.350
it in that realm. You know, speakers
00:14:57.360 --> 00:14:59.269
were really hard back then. And I sort
00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:00.710
of chickenened out. I talked to a couple
00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.230
of speaker manufacturers and they said
00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:03.430
you could really end up with a lot of
00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.350
firewood if you don't, you know, make it
00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:07.110
because back then you had to build like
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:08.790
200 cabinets. you couldn't do like you
00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:10.710
do today with CNC machines and just make
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:12.629
oneoffs. So, I've been, you know, I've
00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:15.430
been using DSP uh room correction and
00:15:15.440 --> 00:15:18.150
active crossovers for about 20 years and
00:15:18.160 --> 00:15:21.110
really as a way to improve my designing
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:23.269
of manual, you know, I mean, of passive
00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:24.790
crossovers because, you know, you could
00:15:24.800 --> 00:15:26.629
do a passive crossover on paper, but
00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:28.389
then to implement it and have your
00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:29.829
speaker sound like the way you think it
00:15:29.839 --> 00:15:32.069
was impossible. So, I always use DSP for
00:15:32.079 --> 00:15:34.389
that application. And the biggest
00:15:34.399 --> 00:15:36.790
problem with DSP and and all of the cool
00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:38.389
products that have come along the line,
00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:40.629
including home theater and and you know,
00:15:40.639 --> 00:15:44.550
was not just the software and the DSP,
00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:46.870
but the mic, right? Figuring out where
00:15:46.880 --> 00:15:49.110
to put the mic in the room, making it
00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:51.350
easy. Like I used a very complicated
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:53.350
piece of equipment called a DQX from
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:55.269
Australia, which unless you understand
00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:56.790
acoustics and whatnot, it was
00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:59.350
complicated to use. And as they got into
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:01.430
direct and stuff like this to do all
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.509
room correction for a home theater, the
00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:05.590
bottom line is a lot of times when you
00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:08.069
push that autoc calibrate, it made the
00:16:08.079 --> 00:16:10.230
sound actually worse. And so I think
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.470
we're starting to see now that they're
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:14.230
getting much better at making it easier
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:17.590
for consumers, but also fixing and
00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:20.470
figuring out the mic situation in, you
00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:21.829
know, if you just depending on where you
00:16:21.839 --> 00:16:23.350
place that mic can screw up the rest of
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:25.110
the room. And they've got to figure
00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:26.550
they've got to figure out a way to do
00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:29.350
that a lot easier for consumers who just
00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:31.749
are so lazy these days thanks to iPhones
00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:33.350
and COVID and all this stuff. They want
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.350
instant gratification. They've got to
00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:37.829
make it easier so that at the end of the
00:16:37.839 --> 00:16:39.509
day when they push that DSP button
00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:41.590
everything sounds great. So it's
00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.110
interesting that you're seeing all this
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:45.430
stuff on the pro side that you know will
00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:47.430
I think eventually make it to the
00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:49.509
consumer side as well. Yeah, it's an
00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:51.189
exciting time because one of the things
00:16:51.199 --> 00:16:52.710
I thought about the other day, like I'm
00:16:52.720 --> 00:16:54.790
always helping people put together
00:16:54.800 --> 00:16:57.110
recording systems and I I do a lot of
00:16:57.120 --> 00:16:59.590
Zoom calls where I train people on
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.310
software or studio setups and a lot of
00:17:02.320 --> 00:17:05.909
the comments I make now is like for $500
00:17:05.919 --> 00:17:10.789
today, you have better conversion than
00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:12.230
that studio you're talking about in
00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.150
Virginia, Crystal Fonic. I mean, we had
00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.350
the largest Avid Pro Tool system in any
00:17:17.360 --> 00:17:19.189
studio in America at the time that we
00:17:19.199 --> 00:17:22.789
opened. And it was just ridiculous
00:17:22.799 --> 00:17:24.710
amounts of money for these converters.
00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:28.710
And anything today, $500 range sounds
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:30.230
better than that. The clocking is
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:32.710
better. So that that's the thing is like
00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.029
as this technology trickles down that
00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:37.350
the benefit you're getting is you're
00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:40.950
closer to the intention of the engineers
00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:43.350
and the musicians and the writers than
00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:47.350
you've ever been. And that purity
00:17:47.360 --> 00:17:49.430
uh is just absolutely amazing. And the
00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:52.310
clocking technology is so much better
00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:54.789
and so much clearer. And uh it's just
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.750
never been a better time for audio,
00:17:57.760 --> 00:18:00.470
which is great because you know that's
00:18:00.480 --> 00:18:01.590
all I've ever done.
00:18:01.600 --> 00:18:03.830
>> That's right. That's right. So when we
00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:05.750
first met, you were going down the path
00:18:05.760 --> 00:18:07.590
of looking into digital to analog
00:18:07.600 --> 00:18:09.190
converters. I know you were thinking
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:10.870
about going mobile and you're trying to
00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:12.150
find something that was a little
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.110
smaller. So maybe, you know, you know, I
00:18:15.120 --> 00:18:17.350
remember you uh you looked at the Cord
00:18:17.360 --> 00:18:21.270
Dave, you listened to the Bassi M3 uh
00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:24.630
for portable, the the Mojo, the Hugo.
00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:26.310
Why don't you walk us through sort of
00:18:26.320 --> 00:18:28.549
what you were listening for with those
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:30.150
different pieces of equipment because I
00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:32.230
think you probably listen to that
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:33.590
equipment differently than most
00:18:33.600 --> 00:18:35.590
consumers and I'm probably sort of
00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:37.510
halfway between you and the consumer and
00:18:37.520 --> 00:18:39.190
the way I listen to stuff, you know, to
00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:41.029
test it out and whatnot. What were you
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:42.470
looking for? because I know a lot of
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.789
studios, they're such dieards once they
00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.470
get their studio dialed in and whatnot,
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:47.750
they don't want to change anything ever,
00:18:47.760 --> 00:18:48.470
right?
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:50.549
>> Um and and that was sort of a pivotal
00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:52.070
time, I think, for you that you were
00:18:52.080 --> 00:18:53.430
thinking about traveling overseas and
00:18:53.440 --> 00:18:54.870
you wanted to take something with you.
00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:56.549
But what were you listening to with
00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.270
those DAXs um uh for for for doing your
00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:02.950
mastering? It's it's uh kind of an
00:19:02.960 --> 00:19:04.310
offshoot to what I was just saying. It's
00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:06.870
it's um the to try to find something
00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.150
that's as transparent as possible but
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:13.909
powerful. So uh it's not just a clinical
00:19:13.919 --> 00:19:15.990
transparency, it's a musical
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:17.510
transparency.
00:19:17.520 --> 00:19:21.669
And if I can hear what I know that
00:19:21.679 --> 00:19:24.549
recording should sound like and and so
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:28.310
that I start uh I stop thinking with my
00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:30.789
technical ear and I start experiencing
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:34.070
it with my emotional ear. uh then it's a
00:19:34.080 --> 00:19:36.470
good product. And there's a lot of
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:38.390
balance in there that has to take place
00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.710
because even if a conversion process has
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.110
that transparency and the punch, if it
00:19:45.120 --> 00:19:47.909
doesn't have enough clean power, it ends
00:19:47.919 --> 00:19:50.789
up failing. And and just to give an
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.789
example, like the Chord Mojo 2 is one of
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.110
those items that is a great example of
00:19:57.120 --> 00:19:58.789
like at the price point, that's better
00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.909
conversion than anything we had at
00:20:01.919 --> 00:20:04.470
Crystalonic. Like we're just like a
00:20:04.480 --> 00:20:08.230
generation or two into like where this
00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.230
technology has gone. And like, you know,
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.150
we're talking about products that you
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.470
sell and and and like with a good pair
00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:17.830
of headphones and a Mojo 2 in a bag,
00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:19.909
like we used to fight through the sound
00:20:19.919 --> 00:20:22.789
to try to get exactly what we're trying
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.110
to achieve. And that was going through
00:20:25.120 --> 00:20:27.270
electronics of consoles, like massive
00:20:27.280 --> 00:20:31.350
amounts of parts and routing and busing
00:20:31.360 --> 00:20:34.149
and all this stuff happening to try to
00:20:34.159 --> 00:20:37.190
get a kick drum to punch a certain way
00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:39.029
or a snare drum to punch a certain way
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:42.149
or a singer to emote like they're
00:20:42.159 --> 00:20:43.909
popping out of the speakers right in
00:20:43.919 --> 00:20:46.870
front of you. All of this work to try to
00:20:46.880 --> 00:20:49.029
push these things and make them
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.149
translate properly. And you can stick a
00:20:52.159 --> 00:20:55.270
good pair of headphones on like Foccal
00:20:55.280 --> 00:20:57.029
headphones,
00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.110
uh, which also started as a proauudio
00:20:59.120 --> 00:21:01.190
thing and then they started getting into
00:21:01.200 --> 00:21:03.750
consumer headphones. Anything like that
00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:05.909
going through a Mojo 2 and and just work
00:21:05.919 --> 00:21:08.070
your way up from there. The Reiccasti
00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:11.110
stuff, I the M3 is one of my favorites
00:21:11.120 --> 00:21:13.430
of all time because it has all of those
00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:15.909
aspects, the transparency, the punch,
00:21:15.919 --> 00:21:18.470
and enough power to drive literally
00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.070
anything.
00:21:20.080 --> 00:21:23.190
So when I listen on there, um, I'm
00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:24.870
listening from the technical standpoint
00:21:24.880 --> 00:21:28.710
of, uh, I need to hear things,
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.710
uh, so intricately that I can get inside
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.029
the sound and find
00:21:33.039 --> 00:21:35.510
parts that are lacking or something
00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:38.149
that's irritating, something that may
00:21:38.159 --> 00:21:40.630
take you out of the experience that you
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.669
may not realize is distracting you, but
00:21:43.679 --> 00:21:45.270
your brain is starting to
00:21:45.280 --> 00:21:48.549
hyperconentrate on a high hat that's too
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:50.789
str and that kind of thing. And then the
00:21:50.799 --> 00:21:52.789
final pass of that, and usually that's
00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:55.990
through speakers, is now can I put that
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.190
on, have it playing, and just
00:21:59.200 --> 00:22:02.549
emotionally experience it, and there's
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.510
no technical ear triggering and telling
00:22:05.520 --> 00:22:07.270
me, "Oh, wait, something's wrong."
00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:09.110
>> And what was really interesting, like I
00:22:09.120 --> 00:22:10.390
thought you were going to go the path of
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:12.230
the Dave. And that's sort of what's
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:13.669
interesting here is I always tell
00:22:13.679 --> 00:22:15.110
customers, look, there's no right or
00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:16.789
wrong, right? You know, the Dave is
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:19.350
twice the cost of the M3. And the M3 is
00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:20.630
a wonderful deck. It just sounds
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.390
different than the Dave, and I would
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.070
have thought as a mastering engineer
00:22:24.080 --> 00:22:28.390
that uh real reference um uh detailed um
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.990
sound of the Core Dave, I thought you
00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.669
would have gone with, but you went with
00:22:31.679 --> 00:22:33.430
what I call, you know, the Bassis are a
00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:34.870
little warm and musical. I usually
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:37.830
recommend those to customers that you
00:22:37.840 --> 00:22:39.669
know want to get more lost in the music
00:22:39.679 --> 00:22:42.149
and the Dave for people that want to you
00:22:42.159 --> 00:22:44.310
know really listen to the you know feel
00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:45.990
the decay on the plucking of the screen
00:22:46.000 --> 00:22:47.750
strings on the instrument or whatever
00:22:47.760 --> 00:22:49.190
and it was interesting that you ended up
00:22:49.200 --> 00:22:51.510
going with the M3 and again no right or
00:22:51.520 --> 00:22:53.990
wrong but but you you know it wasn't
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:55.430
what I would have expected from a
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:56.789
mastering engineer which is really
00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:59.029
interesting it's a combination of things
00:22:59.039 --> 00:23:02.149
and and it's not that a Dave is bad
00:23:02.159 --> 00:23:03.990
obviously it's the pinnacle of this
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:06.870
technology to my ear and and it's not
00:23:06.880 --> 00:23:09.430
just that converter, it's also the
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.070
headphone. So, at that point, it was
00:23:12.080 --> 00:23:13.669
whatever headphone you're using, it's
00:23:13.679 --> 00:23:16.230
how it combines with that DAC, how how
00:23:16.240 --> 00:23:18.070
it responds to that power it's getting
00:23:18.080 --> 00:23:20.070
fed. Yeah. So, nothing negative to say
00:23:20.080 --> 00:23:24.149
about it. It's just like soon as I heard
00:23:24.159 --> 00:23:25.909
that sound coming through the Riccasti,
00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:28.310
it was like, oh, there we go. Now, I
00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:30.870
will say like that's another example of
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:32.789
a company who started in the proauudio
00:23:32.799 --> 00:23:35.350
space and then started doing consumer
00:23:35.360 --> 00:23:37.669
items. Uh, not even I wouldn't call them
00:23:37.679 --> 00:23:39.750
consumer items. I'd call those pure
00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:44.390
audio file. But, uh, the Brassi reverb
00:23:44.400 --> 00:23:46.230
units, everything they've ever done,
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:48.230
like these are topofthe line. Like I use
00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:50.710
these all the time because there's
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:53.270
nothing better. So, yeah. Yeah. And it's
00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:54.630
amazing to to look at that and go,
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:56.870
"Yeah, there's a place for them in the
00:23:56.880 --> 00:23:58.870
audio file world, in consumer world,
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.350
because that purity is what people
00:24:01.360 --> 00:24:01.750
need."
00:24:01.760 --> 00:24:05.909
>> I mean, the Bassi M7, I mean,
00:24:05.919 --> 00:24:09.350
Brian and Bassi sells pallets of them. I
00:24:09.360 --> 00:24:10.710
mean, to, you know, he shifts them to
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.310
Asia. I mean, it's his number one, you
00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:14.549
know, his the consumer audio is almost
00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:17.269
for him the fun side and the pro side.
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:19.350
That M7, nobody's been able to match
00:24:19.360 --> 00:24:22.070
that device. Nobody's come close, you
00:24:22.080 --> 00:24:23.990
know, to to to basic, he said, you know,
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:25.350
to basically compete with that piece,
00:24:25.360 --> 00:24:26.630
you'd have to invest like a million
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:28.549
dollars, you know, it's it's just an
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:30.149
amazing item. And it's been out, I think
00:24:30.159 --> 00:24:32.070
he said something like 15 or 20 years,
00:24:32.080 --> 00:24:34.390
and it's still a reference piece for uh
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:36.149
for recording engineers. But um
00:24:36.159 --> 00:24:38.710
>> it's the way the reverb has been
00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:40.950
described is like you could achieve this
00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:43.909
with plugins, but in order to do it the
00:24:43.919 --> 00:24:46.630
way that they've designed the hardware,
00:24:46.640 --> 00:24:50.549
it would take an entire Mac of power to
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:53.029
sort of like So what's the point? Just
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:54.630
buy the, you know, it's cheaper to buy
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:56.950
the hardware. Um and it really sounds
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:58.470
that way. Like there's a lot of times
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:01.110
you use plugins when mixing in the box
00:25:01.120 --> 00:25:03.350
cuz it's more convenient or you need the
00:25:03.360 --> 00:25:07.110
instant recall. But it when you want the
00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:11.430
DVA voice to have that sound, you go
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:13.510
with their hardware. Yeah. There's just
00:25:13.520 --> 00:25:15.990
no substitute. Nothing gets clo that
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:16.789
close to it.
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.430
>> So you describe mastering to us as and
00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:20.870
and I want to make sure I get this
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:23.029
right. translating the emotional
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:24.549
intention of the song to the end
00:25:24.559 --> 00:25:26.549
listener through frequency, balance,
00:25:26.559 --> 00:25:29.190
dynamics, punch, loudness. That's a very
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:30.630
different frame than a technical
00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:32.710
correction. Where did where did that way
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:33.590
of thinking come from?
00:25:33.600 --> 00:25:36.549
>> Uh it's just being a lifelong fan of
00:25:36.559 --> 00:25:39.190
music of the mystery of this and you
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:40.470
know trying to figure it out and the
00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:42.789
goal is always like a lot of stuff that
00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:45.029
you hear on Spotify today doesn't
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:48.789
necessarily sound good. like your your
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:50.470
children may listen to stuff that you
00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:53.350
probably find irritating, you know, but
00:25:53.360 --> 00:25:56.870
it has some form of punch to it. It has
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:58.310
some form of darkness in the
00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:00.950
presentation, something that translates
00:26:00.960 --> 00:26:03.190
to the ear of maybe a younger person,
00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:05.510
but like they're responding emotionally
00:26:05.520 --> 00:26:08.710
to it. So, uh, there's a lot of that of
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.710
getting behind the artist's intention,
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:12.230
understanding
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:13.990
what's going through their mind, and and
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:16.789
a lot of this is, uh, and especially
00:26:16.799 --> 00:26:21.430
with producing albums, it's sort of like
00:26:21.440 --> 00:26:24.230
learning another human being's wishes of
00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.269
how they want to translate their art.
00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:29.110
Uh, to the point that you're completely
00:26:29.120 --> 00:26:31.909
inside their head. So, I I find that
00:26:31.919 --> 00:26:33.510
fascinating. Sort of like getting the
00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:36.310
intentionality of what they've created,
00:26:36.320 --> 00:26:38.710
mapping that into the math of frequency,
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:40.630
balance, dynamics, loudness,
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:42.149
presentation,
00:26:42.159 --> 00:26:44.549
and then trying to on the back end then
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:46.310
experience that emotionally myself to
00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:47.750
make sure I've got that.
00:26:47.760 --> 00:26:49.510
>> So, I'm proud to say that you've got
00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:51.669
Dragon cables throughout your room. How
00:26:51.679 --> 00:26:53.190
did you land on those? And what are you
00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:54.549
actually hearing that keeps them in the
00:26:54.559 --> 00:26:56.549
chain? It sounds like I'm doing a sales
00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.909
pitch for you guys, but this is a huge
00:26:59.919 --> 00:27:01.669
difference maker. It's I I've got the
00:27:01.679 --> 00:27:04.710
USB cables, the Silver Dragon USB. I've
00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:08.230
got the uh tons of the Silver Dragon
00:27:08.240 --> 00:27:09.750
headphone cables, the Black Dragon
00:27:09.760 --> 00:27:14.070
headphone cables. And these are another
00:27:14.080 --> 00:27:16.710
difference maker in terms of providing
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:18.710
more transparent audio, getting me
00:27:18.720 --> 00:27:23.350
closer to purity. So that there's
00:27:23.360 --> 00:27:26.230
nothing in the chain from power to
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.669
conversion to headphone
00:27:29.679 --> 00:27:31.430
uh to the cables themselves. There's
00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:34.470
nothing that's taking away from exactly
00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:37.750
what's intended and what I want to hear.
00:27:37.760 --> 00:27:40.149
And and the more transparency that I get
00:27:40.159 --> 00:27:43.510
in that uh and the more separation of
00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:46.310
the elements in three-dimensional space,
00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:48.230
the more I can accurately make
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:48.870
decisions.
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:50.630
>> I mean, I'm a firm believer that
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:52.470
everything in the chain makes a
00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:54.230
difference. You know, I've unfortunately
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:55.669
I've gotten to the point now that I
00:27:55.679 --> 00:27:58.389
listen more to the equipment than to the
00:27:58.399 --> 00:28:00.630
music, unfortunately. you know, um
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.510
because obviously I I've got to explain
00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:05.269
how all this different stuff sounds to
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:07.830
everybody and it's incredible. I mean,
00:28:07.840 --> 00:28:09.190
there there are things out there that,
00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:10.470
you know, I found that don't make a
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:11.750
difference, stuff that does make a
00:28:11.760 --> 00:28:13.430
difference. You know, I've I've I've
00:28:13.440 --> 00:28:15.350
I've found some really interesting stuff
00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:17.909
in like iso acoustics, um um
00:28:17.919 --> 00:28:19.990
anti-ressonance feed for speakers, which
00:28:20.000 --> 00:28:22.310
absolutely blew me away. You know, I
00:28:22.320 --> 00:28:24.310
believe in cables make a difference. I
00:28:24.320 --> 00:28:26.630
restore vintage gear and high quality
00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:29.350
parts, you know, that use, we we'll just
00:28:29.360 --> 00:28:30.870
call it precious metals, you know,
00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:34.470
silver, gold, uh, oil, capacitors, um,
00:28:34.480 --> 00:28:36.389
you know, all of these things, crazy
00:28:36.399 --> 00:28:39.029
enough, change the tonality. You know,
00:28:39.039 --> 00:28:41.350
do they do they make a night and day
00:28:41.360 --> 00:28:43.430
difference? You know, probably not. But
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.870
when you're trying to squeeze out every
00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:46.870
percentage point, all of these passive
00:28:46.880 --> 00:28:49.110
uh, products make a difference um, to go
00:28:49.120 --> 00:28:51.830
with the electronics. So um there's a
00:28:51.840 --> 00:28:53.830
big debate in the mastering world and in
00:28:53.840 --> 00:28:56.310
the audio filed world between you know
00:28:56.320 --> 00:28:58.630
transparent and colored pure signal path
00:28:58.640 --> 00:29:01.830
versus you know tubes saturation analog
00:29:01.840 --> 00:29:04.230
warmth where do you come down on that
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.789
and does it depend on a project I yeah
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:09.590
it's project specific and I you can't
00:29:09.600 --> 00:29:12.389
see anything in the room really but uh I
00:29:12.399 --> 00:29:15.590
have a good cross between top level
00:29:15.600 --> 00:29:18.630
digital gear and stuff in the computer
00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.350
and then analog uh gear. And so to me,
00:29:21.360 --> 00:29:24.389
it's uh what does the project call for?
00:29:24.399 --> 00:29:25.990
Um there's a lot of mixing that gets
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:27.750
done in the box these days in the
00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:32.549
computer only that uh may need a bit of
00:29:32.559 --> 00:29:34.549
harmonic distortion from running through
00:29:34.559 --> 00:29:37.590
analog or going through tape. So yeah,
00:29:37.600 --> 00:29:39.510
it really comes down to what's what's
00:29:39.520 --> 00:29:41.510
the purpose? What's the intended goal?
00:29:41.520 --> 00:29:44.630
What's the music style? There's a I was
00:29:44.640 --> 00:29:47.269
just in Nashville and like one of the
00:29:47.279 --> 00:29:48.870
things that's starting to pick up is
00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.470
sort of more the North Carolina um indie
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:55.190
rock sound is starting to be kind of big
00:29:55.200 --> 00:29:58.389
in Nashville. And that to me is like
00:29:58.399 --> 00:30:01.110
just speaks to analog. It doesn't mean
00:30:01.120 --> 00:30:04.389
you have to be recording it full analog
00:30:04.399 --> 00:30:07.029
or even mixing it in analog, but at some
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.430
point that style like almost needs that.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:13.750
it needs harmonic distortion from analog
00:30:13.760 --> 00:30:17.190
tape or certain types of preamps that'll
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:19.269
translate it that way better. And then
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.230
at the same time, like I work uh with a
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:23.909
lot of boy band stuff that comes out of
00:30:23.919 --> 00:30:25.590
Orlando and it's like I wouldn't even
00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:27.830
touch that stuff that so like the things
00:30:27.840 --> 00:30:30.710
that lean sort of more towards K-pop or
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:34.389
boy band girl band kind of things that's
00:30:34.399 --> 00:30:38.549
pure digital precise and bright and very
00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:41.190
in your face. Yeah, it's that's what's
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:44.389
fun about this is like is figuring out
00:30:44.399 --> 00:30:45.750
what's going to work best on something
00:30:45.760 --> 00:30:47.750
and then making that translate
00:30:47.760 --> 00:30:49.430
>> and you know I mean I get the bright
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.990
stuff uh for K-pop because I mean in
00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:53.990
Asia they they love bright equipment
00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.630
like you know we sell Audio Technica and
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:58.149
for
00:30:58.159 --> 00:31:01.029
forever their headphones were way too
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:02.950
bright for the American consumer in my
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:05.350
opinion because they were all tuned in
00:31:05.360 --> 00:31:08.310
Japan and you know they're really big in
00:31:08.320 --> 00:31:10.389
into hearing the in, you know, the the
00:31:10.399 --> 00:31:11.750
stringed instruments, all kinds of
00:31:11.760 --> 00:31:13.190
different stringed instruments that are
00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.110
very bright and edgy, but that's what
00:31:15.120 --> 00:31:16.950
they love. And and again, no right or
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.630
wrong. Uh, and they finally came out
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:20.230
with a headphone for the first time. I
00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:21.510
was like, "Wow, this is a really warm
00:31:21.520 --> 00:31:22.710
and musical. This doesn't make sense
00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:24.950
that this came from Asia." But yeah, I
00:31:24.960 --> 00:31:26.549
get what you're saying about that. Now,
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.870
you mentioned you mentioned plugins and
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:31.669
there are now 15 companies replicating
00:31:31.679 --> 00:31:34.789
the same vintage compressor and and your
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:36.710
interaction with the interface starts to
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:38.950
inform where the sound goes. That's a
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:40.710
fascinating idea. Can you unpack that
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:41.669
for me?
00:31:41.679 --> 00:31:44.070
>> It's uh now when they're replicating
00:31:44.080 --> 00:31:46.789
something vintage, usually it's just,
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.549
you know, I grew up with this gear, so
00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:50.870
they're just doing the same kind of face
00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:53.430
on it. And a lot of younger engineers
00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:55.830
haven't used this stuff, so there's a
00:31:55.840 --> 00:31:57.909
lot of like adjusting to how it actually
00:31:57.919 --> 00:31:59.909
works. And those knobs are really
00:31:59.919 --> 00:32:02.549
replicating the subtle changes that
00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:04.630
occurred in the original gear. But the
00:32:04.640 --> 00:32:08.310
thing that I find is uh a lot of the
00:32:08.320 --> 00:32:11.190
workstation software, the the um apps
00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:13.909
that people use to actually mix and and
00:32:13.919 --> 00:32:15.750
do the final versions of each song or
00:32:15.760 --> 00:32:17.350
they do the arrangement in. So stuff
00:32:17.360 --> 00:32:20.470
like Ableton Live, Avid Pro Tools, uh
00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:23.909
Fender Studio Pro, um that graphical
00:32:23.919 --> 00:32:25.430
interface, your interaction with the
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:27.830
software because you're staring at a
00:32:27.840 --> 00:32:31.190
screen starts to inform how the audio
00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:32.870
comes out.
00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:36.149
So that's uh a lot of that today is uh
00:32:36.159 --> 00:32:38.630
you know it needs to be streamlined and
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:41.269
you need to have a good um interaction
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:44.070
with the software because the more
00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:46.470
you're staring at the screen and kind of
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:49.350
stuck visually responding to audio, the
00:32:49.360 --> 00:32:51.990
worse off the audio gets. You know, this
00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.070
might be a a loaded question or a
00:32:54.080 --> 00:32:55.430
difficult question to answer, but do you
00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.830
like plugins better than using equipment
00:32:57.840 --> 00:32:59.990
to do some of this stuff or vice versa
00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:01.830
or a mix of both or
00:33:01.840 --> 00:33:04.630
>> like a mix of both? And like when I'm
00:33:04.640 --> 00:33:06.149
training people, the thing I try to
00:33:06.159 --> 00:33:09.350
instill in them is get it right at the
00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:11.909
source. So, like if you want some
00:33:11.919 --> 00:33:13.509
harmonic distortion in that sound
00:33:13.519 --> 00:33:16.470
because you know that snare drum in
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:19.350
indie rock uh is going to speak better
00:33:19.360 --> 00:33:23.110
with that then record it that way. Go in
00:33:23.120 --> 00:33:24.870
with a preamp that's going to create
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.350
that. And so in other words, in the
00:33:27.360 --> 00:33:29.269
software, I'm turning to stare at my
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.950
screen just by habit. But as you put
00:33:32.960 --> 00:33:35.509
those faders up to zero,
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:37.590
uh, before you start adjusting and
00:33:37.600 --> 00:33:39.269
tweaking and adding effects, like that
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.669
should sound like a mix,
00:33:41.679 --> 00:33:43.750
a basic mix. It doesn't have all the
00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:46.310
trimmings on it. And automation is a lot
00:33:46.320 --> 00:33:48.310
of what goes into the motion of the
00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:51.269
sound of a mix. But just with faders at
00:33:51.279 --> 00:33:53.750
zero in the way that you've recorded,
00:33:53.760 --> 00:33:55.909
the intentionality should be there to
00:33:55.919 --> 00:33:58.870
get as close as possible to the
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.470
representation of the finished sound as
00:34:00.480 --> 00:34:04.870
you can. And most times that's with uh
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.509
analog gear on the front end. So
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.829
physical media is having a real moment
00:34:09.839 --> 00:34:11.510
right now. You're seeing it firsthand.
00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:14.550
artists using vinyl as crowdfunding
00:34:14.560 --> 00:34:16.950
stretch goal because audiences perceive
00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:19.109
it as the premium tier. What's driving
00:34:19.119 --> 00:34:20.470
that from your vantage point?
00:34:20.480 --> 00:34:24.710
>> Um, I think it's uh there is a certain
00:34:24.720 --> 00:34:27.909
age and below that never experienced
00:34:27.919 --> 00:34:31.829
vinyl and they're starting to slowly see
00:34:31.839 --> 00:34:35.190
that they really did miss something. And
00:34:35.200 --> 00:34:37.190
it's funny because I do I help a lot of
00:34:37.200 --> 00:34:40.149
artists with crowdfunding because that's
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:41.669
the way the world works today. It used
00:34:41.679 --> 00:34:44.310
to be record labels and now artists can
00:34:44.320 --> 00:34:47.190
self-fund through their fan base and do
00:34:47.200 --> 00:34:49.589
the same work and control everything.
00:34:49.599 --> 00:34:51.430
And and what ends up happening in that
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.869
is that the digital download and the CD
00:34:54.879 --> 00:34:58.150
are the thing that's normally included
00:34:58.160 --> 00:35:00.550
with the package. And then if they hit
00:35:00.560 --> 00:35:02.950
their main goal, their stretch goal, the
00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:05.349
sort of higherend offering ends up
00:35:05.359 --> 00:35:09.670
becoming we'll press LPS out of this. Uh
00:35:09.680 --> 00:35:12.870
so it's it's being recognized as the
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:16.310
sort of like high higherend higher tier
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.430
analog format is superior. And I think
00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.790
it's uh you can have your opinion on
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:24.310
sonically whether that's true or not,
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:27.109
but the experience of
00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:29.750
touching the product, reading the
00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:31.750
product, having something real in your
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.270
hands,
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:35.670
hearing the scratching uh of the needle
00:35:35.680 --> 00:35:37.910
going on the vinyl. Like there's it's
00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:39.910
just this is something that people have
00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:43.270
missed. And as they start to get sick of
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.790
phones and start to get sick of AI and
00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:48.790
everything and all this, like I think
00:35:48.800 --> 00:35:50.470
that's one of those real things that you
00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:54.870
can cling to that uh really does inform
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:58.550
your experience of the music. And the
00:35:58.560 --> 00:36:00.790
beauty of it is it's intentional
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.630
listening, right? you know, when you're
00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:04.310
when you're on a streaming service, and
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:06.230
I hear this from parents that their kids
00:36:06.240 --> 00:36:08.390
can't stay on one song for more than,
00:36:08.400 --> 00:36:09.670
you know, half the song before they're
00:36:09.680 --> 00:36:11.430
on to the next, you know, with listening
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:13.270
to vinyl, it's a whole process, right?
00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:14.630
You got to get the you got to get the
00:36:14.640 --> 00:36:16.710
record out of the sleeve. You got to put
00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:18.310
it on the turntable. You got to get the
00:36:18.320 --> 00:36:19.910
dust off. You know, you have to put it
00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.310
on, you sit down, you listen to four or
00:36:22.320 --> 00:36:24.390
five songs, you got to get back up, flip
00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:27.510
it over. you know, it's it's it's
00:36:27.520 --> 00:36:29.990
slowing everybody down, which is so good
00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:31.750
for mental health these days, right?
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:34.069
Because we're all so, you know, between
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:35.829
all the Starbucks that we've had over
00:36:35.839 --> 00:36:37.910
the, you know, the last 10 years and all
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:39.829
this social media, we're all amped up,
00:36:39.839 --> 00:36:41.990
right? And this this is a way to calm
00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:44.550
down, sit down with friends, which I
00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:48.230
mean, you know, when I was 10, 11, 12
00:36:48.240 --> 00:36:49.829
years old, you know, we'd all gather
00:36:49.839 --> 00:36:52.390
around, you know, this all-in-one Sears
00:36:52.400 --> 00:36:54.630
Robuck all-in-one stereo with a
00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:56.950
turntable and, you know, one kid just
00:36:56.960 --> 00:36:59.430
got, you know, the AC/DC black and black
00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.109
record and we got we're all huddled
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:02.470
around it listening to it on these
00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:04.550
really terrible sounding speakers, you
00:37:04.560 --> 00:37:06.230
know, but it got us together, right? And
00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:09.030
it's I'm I'm hoping that this is sort of
00:37:09.040 --> 00:37:11.349
doing the same thing today because uh
00:37:11.359 --> 00:37:13.190
you know co just
00:37:13.200 --> 00:37:14.310
>> messed us up
00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:17.190
>> and and uh the thing I'm finding is like
00:37:17.200 --> 00:37:20.470
there's a craving for that. Um, and then
00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:23.109
it's also like just like what you're
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:24.790
saying like with mental health, there's
00:37:24.800 --> 00:37:27.589
nothing more meditative than putting a
00:37:27.599 --> 00:37:29.990
record on and the entire experience of
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:33.270
like hitting play and like and and you
00:37:33.280 --> 00:37:36.550
mentioned the Jerry Harrison thing. Uh,
00:37:36.560 --> 00:37:39.109
he came into Crystal, the big studio in
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:41.349
Virginia. Uh, Jerry Harrison from the
00:37:41.359 --> 00:37:43.589
Talking Heads. He produced OR's album.
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:46.069
That was kind of their breakout hit. And
00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:49.109
at the same time, uh, the Talking Heads
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:53.670
5.1 catalog was being, uh, remixed into
00:37:53.680 --> 00:37:56.230
5.1 at that time. So it wasn't even
00:37:56.240 --> 00:37:58.550
Dolby Atmos yet. It was 5.1 surround
00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:01.270
sound. And, uh, so I set up a room that
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:03.109
he could get those masters from the
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:05.670
other studio that was doing those and
00:38:05.680 --> 00:38:08.790
listen to stuff. And because I had, this
00:38:08.800 --> 00:38:12.470
is one of the bands that like incredibly
00:38:12.480 --> 00:38:16.069
influenced me as a kid. So, like, uh,
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:18.150
fear of music and remain in light. Like,
00:38:18.160 --> 00:38:20.950
uh, as he got to those, I'm like, uh,
00:38:20.960 --> 00:38:24.230
let me sit here and like I was picking
00:38:24.240 --> 00:38:25.750
out parts of like, I know this doesn't
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:28.069
sound right. That's a little too bright.
00:38:28.079 --> 00:38:29.589
They should fix this. That kick drum
00:38:29.599 --> 00:38:32.230
isn't quite like what it sounded like.
00:38:32.240 --> 00:38:35.510
Uh, if that was on Spotify
00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:37.349
and that was my reference, how deep
00:38:37.359 --> 00:38:39.829
could I have gone into that? Like, I
00:38:39.839 --> 00:38:42.470
obsessed over those records as a kid.
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:44.790
that process of putting the record on
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.670
sometimes bouncing it onto a cassette,
00:38:47.680 --> 00:38:51.190
you know, to carry that around. Um there
00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:54.950
there's so much deeper
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:59.589
um absorption of the project when it's
00:38:59.599 --> 00:39:02.710
like that and I I think a lot of the
00:39:02.720 --> 00:39:05.670
benefit the positive thing coming out of
00:39:05.680 --> 00:39:08.310
co is people are craving
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.390
that kind of experience again. So, you
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:11.829
mentioned working on a film called
00:39:11.839 --> 00:39:14.069
Rising Above Helen, produced here in
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:16.150
North Carolina about Hurricane Helen.
00:39:16.160 --> 00:39:17.990
And and you know, this is interesting to
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:19.510
me because I was actually affected by
00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:22.390
this. I I had a house up in Boone and my
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:24.310
daughter was there when it hit and and
00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:26.870
we are extremely lucky to still have a
00:39:26.880 --> 00:39:29.349
house. In fact, the house split like the
00:39:29.359 --> 00:39:31.829
Red Sea water. We had a we had a we'll
00:39:31.839 --> 00:39:33.670
call it a babbling brook in the back in
00:39:33.680 --> 00:39:36.470
the backyard. That babbling book brook
00:39:36.480 --> 00:39:38.790
turned into like the Mississippi River.
00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:41.270
and between the front yard and the water
00:39:41.280 --> 00:39:43.589
in the backyard. Um, it was pretty
00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:45.910
scary. So, you know, this is, you know,
00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:47.589
pretty dear to my heart. So, tell tell
00:39:47.599 --> 00:39:48.550
us about that one.
00:39:48.560 --> 00:39:51.910
>> That was uh all produced here in North
00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:54.310
Carolina. The director Chris Bowcom, I
00:39:54.320 --> 00:39:56.470
put everybody's name in the uh links
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:58.710
that I sent you. Um, so he directed
00:39:58.720 --> 00:40:01.430
that. Uh, there's a local engineer who
00:40:01.440 --> 00:40:03.349
now opened a studio in Muscle Scholes,
00:40:03.359 --> 00:40:06.630
Eric Meyers. He is the engineer on that.
00:40:06.640 --> 00:40:08.710
They hired an artist
00:40:08.720 --> 00:40:11.430
uh to do the lead song for that. And it
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:13.349
it was just this beautiful project. Like
00:40:13.359 --> 00:40:15.030
I've worked with everybody that was part
00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:17.829
of this before. And so I was hired to
00:40:17.839 --> 00:40:21.670
master that single and uh then I was
00:40:21.680 --> 00:40:24.230
hired to master the audio for the whole
00:40:24.240 --> 00:40:25.990
movie. And it's just one of those things
00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:28.710
where again it's and and you know a
00:40:28.720 --> 00:40:30.069
movie is a completely different thing
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:33.990
than just music but a lot of the work in
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:37.829
the film is to translate the emotion
00:40:37.839 --> 00:40:39.430
properly. So there's a lot of technical
00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:42.550
stuff I was doing to improve the sound
00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:45.190
and take anything away that would be
00:40:45.200 --> 00:40:47.670
distracting. At the same time, um,
00:40:47.680 --> 00:40:51.349
you're hearing 911 calls from people who
00:40:51.359 --> 00:40:53.349
are in the moment and it's happening and
00:40:53.359 --> 00:40:56.150
they're being swept away. And so, it's
00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:58.390
equal parts. I'm technically fixing
00:40:58.400 --> 00:41:00.230
things, making the audio perfect, and
00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:02.870
also I'm crying hysterically as I'm
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:05.589
doing it. So, yeah, an amazing amazing
00:41:05.599 --> 00:41:07.349
project. I mean, who would have thought
00:41:07.359 --> 00:41:09.109
a hurricane would hit the mountains of
00:41:09.119 --> 00:41:10.870
North Carolina? And and what a lot of
00:41:10.880 --> 00:41:12.390
people don't realize is the reason it
00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.910
was such a problem. And this is going
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:15.589
back to my civil engineering days. and
00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.069
and hydrarology design, you know, you've
00:41:18.079 --> 00:41:20.309
got all these V's, right? And when a
00:41:20.319 --> 00:41:22.550
water's going down essentially a V,
00:41:22.560 --> 00:41:25.190
there's no place for the water to go and
00:41:25.200 --> 00:41:26.950
it just builds up, right? Because it's
00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.309
really small at the bottom. It's almost
00:41:28.319 --> 00:41:29.990
like a vinyl record, right? The water
00:41:30.000 --> 00:41:33.670
fills up and that's why there was so
00:41:33.680 --> 00:41:35.829
much damage and and the only reason I
00:41:35.839 --> 00:41:37.750
still have a house is right below. And
00:41:37.760 --> 00:41:39.430
this is this is a second home up in the
00:41:39.440 --> 00:41:40.710
mountains where my daughter to go to
00:41:40.720 --> 00:41:43.109
Appalachian uh State University that she
00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:45.030
lived in. And the only reason we still
00:41:45.040 --> 00:41:46.550
have a house is right below our
00:41:46.560 --> 00:41:48.710
development was a golf course. So the
00:41:48.720 --> 00:41:50.870
golf course was flat and wide and it was
00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.349
a place for the water to spread out. If
00:41:53.359 --> 00:41:55.109
that wouldn't have been there, there is
00:41:55.119 --> 00:41:56.950
no way I'd still have that house. The
00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:58.870
the houses next to me would all be gone.
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:00.710
I mean, it's it was, you know, towns
00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:03.430
were literally, you know, chimney rock
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:05.270
gone. I mean, it was pretty pretty
00:42:05.280 --> 00:42:07.030
crazy. Pretty crazy. So,
00:42:07.040 --> 00:42:08.950
>> it was incredible and violent and and
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:11.670
like a similar thing happened. I have uh
00:42:11.680 --> 00:42:12.950
some artists that I work with in
00:42:12.960 --> 00:42:15.829
Stanton, Virginia, and and they called
00:42:15.839 --> 00:42:17.510
me the one day and there was like this
00:42:17.520 --> 00:42:19.190
flooding downtown and it was like
00:42:19.200 --> 00:42:21.270
sweeping buildings away and I'm like,
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:23.750
"You're on a it's in the mountains like
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:24.790
you're on a
00:42:24.800 --> 00:42:26.550
>> you're on a mountain side. How is this
00:42:26.560 --> 00:42:28.550
possible?" And it's it's the same thing.
00:42:28.560 --> 00:42:29.430
It's the
00:42:29.440 --> 00:42:31.270
>> design of how it's shaped is
00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:32.630
>> not a good thing.
00:42:32.640 --> 00:42:34.470
>> So, let's get back to the music. So, so
00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:36.069
what's on what's on the bench right now?
00:42:36.079 --> 00:42:37.750
Anything you can share or tease?
00:42:37.760 --> 00:42:39.910
>> Uh uh uh. So, some of the stuff I sent
00:42:39.920 --> 00:42:42.550
you, I think is uh good things to show
00:42:42.560 --> 00:42:44.790
you. Um, hold on, I got my notes here.
00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.670
Uh, so there's an album I I sent my
00:42:47.680 --> 00:42:49.430
links for my mastering page and my
00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.470
mixing website. And between those two,
00:42:52.480 --> 00:42:54.630
I've embedded YouTube videos of a bunch
00:42:54.640 --> 00:42:56.550
of artists I've worked with. So, there's
00:42:56.560 --> 00:42:58.390
a ton of various stuff you can see and
00:42:58.400 --> 00:43:00.150
stuff that's from a ton of different
00:43:00.160 --> 00:43:03.109
countries. Lots of variety there. Uh,
00:43:03.119 --> 00:43:05.910
there's a local artist, Kira Teay, and
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:07.430
her album just launched about a month
00:43:07.440 --> 00:43:10.950
ago. I produced that. She and I co-wrote
00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:13.109
most of it. I played a bunch of the
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:15.589
stuff on it. Mixed and mastered that.
00:43:15.599 --> 00:43:17.990
So, that's a great one. There's a rock
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:20.790
band 434 from Virginia who is charting
00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:23.829
on the rock radio charts right now.
00:43:23.839 --> 00:43:25.750
There's a link to them. They've got a
00:43:25.760 --> 00:43:28.470
killer single that just sounds massive
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.309
because the instruction was make it
00:43:30.319 --> 00:43:32.870
bigger. Make it bigger. No, make it
00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:34.710
bigger.
00:43:34.720 --> 00:43:36.870
to the point of like there's there's no
00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:39.109
there's no more big. This is as big as
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:40.309
it gets.
00:43:40.319 --> 00:43:44.150
>> Um that uh movie you mentioned, if that
00:43:44.160 --> 00:43:46.309
link is you're in on the video, you can
00:43:46.319 --> 00:43:47.990
watch the whole movie online. And the
00:43:48.000 --> 00:43:49.510
artist who wrote the song is Rachel
00:43:49.520 --> 00:43:51.670
Clarman. She's an amazing singer
00:43:51.680 --> 00:43:53.990
songwriter based now in Nashville.
00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:55.910
Another one I sent you a link to is
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.829
Robin and Linda Williams. They're a folk
00:43:57.839 --> 00:44:00.150
bluegrass duo who have been around for a
00:44:00.160 --> 00:44:03.109
long time. I've produced, mixed and
00:44:03.119 --> 00:44:04.950
engineered and mastered a bunch of their
00:44:04.960 --> 00:44:07.109
records over the years, but there's a
00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:09.510
link to uh their last album, one of the
00:44:09.520 --> 00:44:11.030
singles off of there. They did a great
00:44:11.040 --> 00:44:14.309
video for that. And speaking of where
00:44:14.319 --> 00:44:17.430
technology has gone, we recorded that
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:19.510
last entire album in their house, in
00:44:19.520 --> 00:44:22.470
their living room. And we just did a new
00:44:22.480 --> 00:44:23.990
one that's going to come out in a few
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.069
months. Same thing, recorded in their
00:44:26.079 --> 00:44:29.030
living room. They're right across from
00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:32.309
the fire station. So once or twice a day
00:44:32.319 --> 00:44:34.950
we pause cuz the fire trucks come out
00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:37.990
and you're like whoa that vocal take's
00:44:38.000 --> 00:44:40.790
not going to work. Um and then uh
00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:42.790
there's another local band, the Gentry
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:45.030
Brothers that I think a lot of people
00:44:45.040 --> 00:44:47.190
would find interesting because they are
00:44:47.200 --> 00:44:49.589
now becoming my session musicians for a
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:50.470
lot of the stuff that I do.
00:44:50.480 --> 00:44:51.589
>> I was just going to ask about that.
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:51.910
Yeah.
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:53.829
>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a killer group. three
00:44:53.839 --> 00:44:56.950
brothers and they're just fantastic
00:44:56.960 --> 00:44:59.829
players and their stuff is really weird
00:44:59.839 --> 00:45:02.390
and out there and just totally killer
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:03.990
>> and you describe taking them through the
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:06.550
catalog. Stone Temple Pilots, Jellyfish.
00:45:06.560 --> 00:45:08.470
What does it feel like to be that person
00:45:08.480 --> 00:45:09.750
for the next generation?
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.430
>> Yeah, it's so uh Luke Gentry who is sort
00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:15.990
of the lead singer and uh the main
00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:18.870
writer of that group is sort of doing
00:45:18.880 --> 00:45:20.790
his entire music education working his
00:45:20.800 --> 00:45:23.510
way from the Beatles up. And so I can
00:45:23.520 --> 00:45:25.589
interject and go, "Oh, wait a second.
00:45:25.599 --> 00:45:27.430
Here's here's something you never heard
00:45:27.440 --> 00:45:30.230
of. Jellyfish. Check this out." And and
00:45:30.240 --> 00:45:31.829
so there's a lot of little things I can
00:45:31.839 --> 00:45:34.790
push him into where he comes back and
00:45:34.800 --> 00:45:37.670
goes sonically like man. And then like
00:45:37.680 --> 00:45:39.510
here's here's Stone Temple Pilots at the
00:45:39.520 --> 00:45:41.030
beginning where it's like huge
00:45:41.040 --> 00:45:43.430
production, giant reverbs, the kick drum
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:45.270
doesn't even sound real. And then here's
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:47.589
Stone Temple Pilots later where it's
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:49.990
just raw drums. and here's the reason
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:52.550
why they changed and what they're going
00:45:52.560 --> 00:45:55.750
for. And like just to see a young person
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:59.510
be like, man, wow. Like it's so
00:45:59.520 --> 00:46:02.710
different than today's music. But uh
00:46:02.720 --> 00:46:04.630
right now we are in a moment where I
00:46:04.640 --> 00:46:07.990
think it's starting to go back to a more
00:46:08.000 --> 00:46:11.109
raw production style and less reverb and
00:46:11.119 --> 00:46:12.870
and just, you know, the real thing
00:46:12.880 --> 00:46:15.109
again. Thankfully,
00:46:15.119 --> 00:46:17.750
>> it it's interesting. you know, I I um
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:19.829
met with a couple of different um
00:46:19.839 --> 00:46:23.030
recording engineers and listening to the
00:46:23.040 --> 00:46:25.510
raw recording and then the process
00:46:25.520 --> 00:46:28.309
recording. I tell you, there was a there
00:46:28.319 --> 00:46:29.990
was a pretty I I don't know if I want to
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.910
call it a substantial difference, but I
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:33.670
really preferred the raw recording. And
00:46:33.680 --> 00:46:36.870
I wished in some ways that some of these
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.710
raw recordings would just go straight to
00:46:38.720 --> 00:46:40.390
even with their little mistakes. like
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:41.910
you know the Rolling Stones have an
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:45.030
album uh stripped and um one of the
00:46:45.040 --> 00:46:47.190
songs on there they make a mistake at
00:46:47.200 --> 00:46:48.470
the beginning and they start you know
00:46:48.480 --> 00:46:50.069
they they curse and they're like oh no
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:52.309
no no let's start this over again and
00:46:52.319 --> 00:46:54.230
honestly you know these guys who are
00:46:54.240 --> 00:46:56.470
seasoned who've been doing this what for
00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:59.190
150 years right they're they're old as
00:46:59.200 --> 00:47:01.190
dirt they're only human they made a
00:47:01.200 --> 00:47:03.109
mistake and honestly that was the
00:47:03.119 --> 00:47:04.790
favorite part of the song for me you
00:47:04.800 --> 00:47:06.710
know why why aren't why isn't there more
00:47:06.720 --> 00:47:08.710
of that why not release some of these
00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:11.109
rough uncut that you know that honestly
00:47:11.119 --> 00:47:12.710
sounded a little bit better or maybe not
00:47:12.720 --> 00:47:14.630
necessarily better but different than
00:47:14.640 --> 00:47:16.390
what we end up seeing in the processed
00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:18.470
you know thing that goes to you know CD
00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:21.510
or vinyl or whatever that's like this is
00:47:21.520 --> 00:47:23.270
it should be the point in today's world
00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:25.910
is like record labels listen listen to
00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:31.270
me uh the end listener wants all of that
00:47:31.280 --> 00:47:32.950
like a lot of the bands I work with my
00:47:32.960 --> 00:47:34.790
point to them is like we can do the
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:38.230
studio thing and then you should do a
00:47:38.240 --> 00:47:42.309
live raw uh filmed, you know, just play
00:47:42.319 --> 00:47:44.710
it on acoustic guitars and then you
00:47:44.720 --> 00:47:46.230
should do like three different live
00:47:46.240 --> 00:47:49.349
shows and like I'll mix all of those.
00:47:49.359 --> 00:47:51.030
There should be multiple versions of
00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:54.630
this because if the songs are good, they
00:47:54.640 --> 00:47:56.390
work in any way that you present them.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:58.550
So, present them. And we just did I just
00:47:58.560 --> 00:48:00.630
did a podcast with a pore house downtown
00:48:00.640 --> 00:48:03.750
Raleigh where they actually record, you
00:48:03.760 --> 00:48:05.910
know, bands in their, you know, in their
00:48:05.920 --> 00:48:09.030
uh um uh club there. They record it,
00:48:09.040 --> 00:48:10.710
they put it straight to vinyl, they have
00:48:10.720 --> 00:48:12.069
a pressing plant there. It's a cool
00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:13.750
video. I'll have to check that out. And
00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:15.270
I think I think that's, you know, I wish
00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:17.109
there was more of that stuff, you know.
00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:18.309
And they said that, you know, they've
00:48:18.319 --> 00:48:21.589
only done probably five bands, you know,
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:23.270
Chuck, which is one of my cable
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.190
technicians here. He's in a band called
00:48:25.200 --> 00:48:29.270
um uh Duck. And they recorded one in the
00:48:29.280 --> 00:48:31.190
studio, one version of their album in
00:48:31.200 --> 00:48:33.349
the studio and one version at the Pore
00:48:33.359 --> 00:48:36.390
House. And the sound difference, I mean,
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.710
the Pore House version sounds so much
00:48:38.720 --> 00:48:40.950
better and just more exciting because,
00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:43.030
you know, it it it it got everything
00:48:43.040 --> 00:48:44.630
that happened in that live performance,
00:48:44.640 --> 00:48:46.790
you know what I mean? Um, we need more
00:48:46.800 --> 00:48:49.109
of that. Yeah. Some of my f like when
00:48:49.119 --> 00:48:52.309
the uh Beatles started releasing more of
00:48:52.319 --> 00:48:54.230
the deep stuff or like they're they're
00:48:54.240 --> 00:48:56.309
doing sort of alternate mixes, but you
00:48:56.319 --> 00:48:58.870
can finally hear what's going on in the
00:48:58.880 --> 00:49:01.910
guitars, you know? Uh, and you realize
00:49:01.920 --> 00:49:04.390
like they're screwing up half the time.
00:49:04.400 --> 00:49:06.630
Like, but the feel is there. Like as a
00:49:06.640 --> 00:49:09.589
whole, they have this sound that's like
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:12.870
the the greatest locked in but sloppy
00:49:12.880 --> 00:49:16.069
band of all time. And like all of that
00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.470
adds up to to like this incredible
00:49:18.480 --> 00:49:20.069
presentation of music. But when you
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:22.069
really break it down, I mean, the best
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:25.430
thing I ever heard was um you can put
00:49:25.440 --> 00:49:27.270
your speakers out of phase, a stereo set
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.430
of speakers, and you can do a uh like a
00:49:29.440 --> 00:49:31.990
plus minus where you can remove the
00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:35.030
middle um because you anything that's in
00:49:35.040 --> 00:49:36.710
the middle will go out of phase and
00:49:36.720 --> 00:49:39.270
disappear to your ears and you just hear
00:49:39.280 --> 00:49:41.589
the sides. So, I did this to the first
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.150
uh Traveling Wilbur's record and that uh
00:49:44.160 --> 00:49:46.309
that first single off of that when they
00:49:46.319 --> 00:49:48.630
do the
00:49:48.640 --> 00:49:50.470
and they start in the song like George
00:49:50.480 --> 00:49:53.109
Harrison screws up the part, they go
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:55.670
into the lick and he goes up high to do
00:49:55.680 --> 00:49:57.829
the riff on the guitar and he he misses
00:49:57.839 --> 00:49:59.750
the note, but you can't tell because
00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:02.870
there's like 10 layers of that same part
00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:04.630
going on in the mix. But when you take
00:50:04.640 --> 00:50:07.190
out the distractive stuff that's in the
00:50:07.200 --> 00:50:09.030
middle, all of a sudden you realize
00:50:09.040 --> 00:50:11.430
like, "Oh, thank God George Harrison's
00:50:11.440 --> 00:50:13.670
screwing it up like I would."
00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:15.270
>> And now we're going to see sales spike
00:50:15.280 --> 00:50:16.390
on that album because people are going
00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:17.349
to rush out and do that.
00:50:17.359 --> 00:50:18.870
>> So put your speakers out of phase and
00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:20.870
then some to mono and then that will
00:50:20.880 --> 00:50:22.470
disappear and then you'll hear the side
00:50:22.480 --> 00:50:23.829
information. Then you can hear George
00:50:23.839 --> 00:50:26.470
Harrison screw out the part. Before we
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:28.710
wrap up, you st you started to tell us a
00:50:28.720 --> 00:50:30.390
story on our call about uh Jerry
00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:33.349
Harrison coming in before Chrisphonic
00:50:33.359 --> 00:50:35.829
even opened and and ending up in a room
00:50:35.839 --> 00:50:38.309
with him, you know, checking the 5.1
00:50:38.319 --> 00:50:40.150
talking head masters. I don't want to
00:50:40.160 --> 00:50:41.589
leave that out without hearing it
00:50:41.599 --> 00:50:44.230
properly. Yeah, I mentioned this earlier
00:50:44.240 --> 00:50:45.829
uh when we were just say saying this
00:50:45.839 --> 00:50:48.150
stuff and so that was an incredible
00:50:48.160 --> 00:50:50.549
experience for me because I they're one
00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:52.950
of those bands from the era when I grew
00:50:52.960 --> 00:50:55.750
up that really you know just informed
00:50:55.760 --> 00:50:58.470
everything and inspired me. Uh you know
00:50:58.480 --> 00:51:00.309
XTC was another one. There's a lot of
00:51:00.319 --> 00:51:02.390
stuff from that era that these bands
00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:05.589
were just doing stuff that today is like
00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:07.030
you I don't even know that you can make
00:51:07.040 --> 00:51:10.069
records like that anymore. Um, and just
00:51:10.079 --> 00:51:11.589
to be sitting in a room with a guy who
00:51:11.599 --> 00:51:13.910
did it, who also agreed that his
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:16.390
favorite to I don't want to speak for
00:51:16.400 --> 00:51:19.109
him, but from my understanding, remain
00:51:19.119 --> 00:51:20.549
in light and fear of music were his
00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:22.870
favorite as well. Uh, and just to sort
00:51:22.880 --> 00:51:25.349
of like get his perspective from
00:51:25.359 --> 00:51:28.710
creating it, being in that moment,
00:51:28.720 --> 00:51:32.309
whatever external substances maybe have
00:51:32.319 --> 00:51:34.950
been influencing what they were doing,
00:51:34.960 --> 00:51:37.829
uh, it it was just incredible. And then
00:51:37.839 --> 00:51:39.829
he's also a seasoned producer, an
00:51:39.839 --> 00:51:41.270
engineer in his own right. He's done
00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:44.630
incredible stuff. Um, so to see that
00:51:44.640 --> 00:51:47.270
from that perspective where his
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:48.870
experience of doing that as a musician
00:51:48.880 --> 00:51:51.510
and a writer and a performer
00:51:51.520 --> 00:51:53.589
informed him to then be a producer
00:51:53.599 --> 00:51:55.109
later.
00:51:55.119 --> 00:51:56.870
It's just it's just fascinating to me.
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:58.790
It's like we're all on anybody in the
00:51:58.800 --> 00:52:01.270
music industry is on this shared journey
00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:05.190
of trying to peel back the layers and
00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:07.750
figure it out. And it's it's just
00:52:07.760 --> 00:52:09.510
wonderful.
00:52:09.520 --> 00:52:11.030
>> Yeah. So, last question. I usually like
00:52:11.040 --> 00:52:12.390
to talk about, you know, what we're
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:13.750
listening to at the end, you know,
00:52:13.760 --> 00:52:15.750
besides the stuff that you're mixing. Is
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:17.109
there something you're listening to on a
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:18.870
turntable or a playlist or whatnot that
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:20.069
you want people to know about?
00:52:20.079 --> 00:52:23.270
>> Oh god. I mean, there's nothing in
00:52:23.280 --> 00:52:25.510
particular I could say other than I
00:52:25.520 --> 00:52:27.829
think stylistically I've started to hear
00:52:27.839 --> 00:52:31.430
like I listen to uh uh a playlist on
00:52:31.440 --> 00:52:33.670
Spotify called Pop Rising a lot and it's
00:52:33.680 --> 00:52:35.510
just like stuff that's about to chart,
00:52:35.520 --> 00:52:37.829
stuff that's coming soon to get on the
00:52:37.839 --> 00:52:41.910
Billboard charts. And usually
00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:44.790
it it's just horrible to listen to
00:52:44.800 --> 00:52:46.230
because it's just, you know, it's very
00:52:46.240 --> 00:52:50.150
much uh produced pop and uh it's not
00:52:50.160 --> 00:52:52.630
very inspiring. But what's started to
00:52:52.640 --> 00:52:54.230
happen on there is like there's a lot of
00:52:54.240 --> 00:52:55.829
stuff that sounds like Fleetwood Mac is
00:52:55.839 --> 00:52:57.910
starting to come back. Uh there's a lot
00:52:57.920 --> 00:52:59.670
of stuff that sounds raw and with real
00:52:59.680 --> 00:53:01.910
musicians playing on it. So I think we
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:03.910
are at a moment where all the things
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:07.190
that we're talking about as just as
00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:09.030
clearly as we're speaking about the
00:53:09.040 --> 00:53:11.430
purity of like top level digital
00:53:11.440 --> 00:53:14.069
products and conversion and precise
00:53:14.079 --> 00:53:16.549
headphones, we're also simultaneously
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:19.750
talking about vinyl analog, the
00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:22.069
experience of
00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:25.270
music in a shared speaker driven room or
00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:27.910
with multiple headphones. So what I'm
00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:30.069
finding is that I think the industry is
00:53:30.079 --> 00:53:33.190
starting to move into that as well where
00:53:33.200 --> 00:53:36.230
we're having a renaissance of rock
00:53:36.240 --> 00:53:38.230
coming back and like real music and real
00:53:38.240 --> 00:53:40.950
musicianship which is exciting.
00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:42.549
>> Yeah. So speaking of music back from
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.190
sort of we'll say the early 90s. So this
00:53:45.200 --> 00:53:46.549
is what I'm listening to right now, the
00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:49.750
Smiths. Um it was my uh uh my wife's
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:52.069
birthday this past weekend and nothing's
00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:54.309
more romantic than a little depressing
00:53:54.319 --> 00:53:56.470
love music from the Smiths, right? you
00:53:56.480 --> 00:53:59.510
know, Girlfriend in a Coma. I just got,
00:53:59.520 --> 00:54:01.270
you know, I just got run over by a, you
00:54:01.280 --> 00:54:03.190
know, a truck and all that other stuff,
00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:04.950
but man, I'm I'm a huge fan of the
00:54:04.960 --> 00:54:06.390
Smiths. I have pretty much all of their
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:07.910
albums. I don't know what it is about
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:10.630
that melancholy sound, but um I can't
00:54:10.640 --> 00:54:12.470
get enough of it. And and I'll sing it
00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:14.549
to to my wife and she'll just be like,
00:54:14.559 --> 00:54:16.549
"How is this romantic? You, you know, we
00:54:16.559 --> 00:54:18.630
just died together. You know, the bus
00:54:18.640 --> 00:54:22.549
got run over and but hey, man, it sounds
00:54:22.559 --> 00:54:24.630
good." I deal with this like I do a lot
00:54:24.640 --> 00:54:27.990
of sync music. uh music for film and TV
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:29.670
and I was starting to write more of that
00:54:29.680 --> 00:54:31.349
kind of stuff and like some of the last
00:54:31.359 --> 00:54:34.390
ones that I did got rejected because
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:37.349
they said it's too dark and I'm like I
00:54:37.359 --> 00:54:39.430
can't take the 9-in nails out of me man.
00:54:39.440 --> 00:54:42.790
I can't like so I'm sorry but like this
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:44.549
is as happy as it's going to get. Don't
00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:47.349
don't call me again then cuz I just
00:54:47.359 --> 00:54:49.430
can't do it. Yeah. And I'm looking
00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:52.230
forward to the 9-in Noise album, the
00:54:52.240 --> 00:54:54.470
collaboration. Um that that was, you
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:56.069
know, I saw some YouTube videos from
00:54:56.079 --> 00:54:57.670
Coachella and I'm like, "Oh man, I can't
00:54:57.680 --> 00:54:59.510
wait for that album to come out." So
00:54:59.520 --> 00:55:02.230
anyway, Kevin, this was fantastic
00:55:02.240 --> 00:55:04.230
conversation. Thank you so much. Thanks
00:55:04.240 --> 00:55:06.230
so much for having me and thanks for uh
00:55:06.240 --> 00:55:09.030
everything that you guys do. I'm a a fan
00:55:09.040 --> 00:55:12.390
and a a client and I'm sure after this
00:55:12.400 --> 00:55:14.950
I'll be coming in soon to buy something
00:55:14.960 --> 00:55:16.150
else.
00:55:16.160 --> 00:55:18.069
>> Sounds good to me. So, for everyone
00:55:18.079 --> 00:55:20.390
watching, links to Symphonic Mastering
00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:21.990
Studio are in the description and all
00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:23.349
the stuff, you know, all the music we
00:55:23.359 --> 00:55:26.549
talked about, the the uh hurricane uh um
00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:28.870
documentary. Check those out. If you've
00:55:28.880 --> 00:55:30.630
ever put on a record or a pair of
00:55:30.640 --> 00:55:32.390
headphones and felt like, you know,
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:34.950
something is missing, you know, or you
00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:37.190
feel some kind of emotion, Kevin's the
00:55:37.200 --> 00:55:39.589
kind of person who spent decades making
00:55:39.599 --> 00:55:41.589
sure that that feeling was possible. If
00:55:41.599 --> 00:55:42.950
you found this valuable, please
00:55:42.960 --> 00:55:44.710
subscribe and hit that notification
00:55:44.720 --> 00:55:46.150
bell. We've got more of these
00:55:46.160 --> 00:55:47.990
conversations coming with people who are
00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:50.470
taking listening seriously. Kevin,
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:51.829
thanks again and we'll see you next time
00:55:51.839 --> 00:55:55.559
on the Fidelity Exchange.