WEBVTT
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00:00:28.339Hey, superstars.
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00:00:29.460Paula here.
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00:00:31.699And Sam Pruitt.
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00:00:33.299What's up, beautiful humans?
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00:00:34.340Good morning.
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00:00:35.299Hey, you know what?
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00:00:37.299We rarely tape in the morning.
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00:00:39.140I need more coffee.
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00:00:43.939And not that anybody would notice what time of day we tape, but uh, you're ready.
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00:00:45.060This is a little early for us.
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00:00:45.619I love it.
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00:00:46.019Yeah.
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00:00:48.659Yeah, we're usually like uh midday jammers.
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00:00:49.459Mm-hmm.
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00:00:49.859Mm-hmm.
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00:00:53.700Yeah, we're just gonna knock this one out and we'll see how how the energy is from both of us.
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00:00:54.739I just got out of the gym.
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00:00:56.500You're probably up and early as well.
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00:00:58.260And I actually slept in.
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00:00:59.939That's why I'm still drinking coffee.
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00:01:04.019I'll go to the gym after this and then get on with the day, but it's all good.
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00:01:05.620Get a cranking, get a cranking.
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00:01:07.379Well, thank you for joining us today, guys.
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00:01:10.739We are talking about a fun topic that I've discovered.
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00:01:13.939I need to be talking about codependency.
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00:01:18.900I was like, huh, hadn't really been on my radar.
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00:01:28.259And as we started preparing for this, just because we were unpacking some things like behaviors that I was doing and I was seeing, and like running up to this resistance in a relationship.
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00:01:32.819And I was like, what's you know, it's like look like shining a spotlight on my behavior, you know.
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00:01:37.859I mean, you and I, I don't know about you, but I'll speak for myself anyways, constantly under the petri dish.
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00:01:43.459Like when I notice, let's say, dysfunction or resistance or stuff's just not working right.
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00:01:44.739I'm like, why what's going on?
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00:01:45.780Hold up, right?
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00:01:48.659And then just get more conscious about it, take a look at it.
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00:01:50.420And you've helped me with that with this one.
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00:01:54.420So coded the Well, you know how this came on my radar recently.
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00:02:01.379I came back from being a nature woman in the woods, right, by myself for 20 days.
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00:02:18.979And as part of my recalibration, one of the things, one of the many layers of things that evolved for me was a different way of relating to my friends and family, my loved ones, and even actually honestly, my co-workers and clients.
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00:02:22.099So relationship, we'll just call it relationship.
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00:02:24.259Who you're being in the world.
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00:02:24.500Yeah.
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00:02:25.140Yeah.
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00:02:29.299You know, relationship, interpersonal relationships are complicated.
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00:02:31.060Like that is shit, is work.
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00:02:32.019Okay, dude.
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00:02:33.299Like, hello.
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00:02:46.819And trying last year and a couple of years, but last year, like was trying in many ways because there were so many relationships and so many things going on and a lot of needs from others.
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00:03:06.340And so in that, I was repeatedly banging my head or bumping myself into the wall around these relationships and how to navigate them with care and compassion and support and be a resource and all the things I want to be a compassionate, loving person in the world.
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00:03:07.299I love these people.
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00:03:08.819I'm invested in their success, right?
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00:03:24.019But then I could repeatedly find myself overly invested, and then all of a sudden going, fuck this, like exhausted from that need or demand or amount of contact or whatever it was, you know?
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00:03:31.139And so it was me having an unpacking myself of like, how can I do these things differently?
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00:03:39.780Studying Buddhism, of course, that's part of it, but then also just having great awareness and wanting to evolve through it.
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00:03:45.460So I came out the other side, and one of the things I shared with you was like, I'm just relating to people differently.
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00:03:47.060Like, this is wild.
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00:03:57.939And then having that awareness and intention and really working that muscle, I started really kind of seeing it pop up everywhere.
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00:04:07.539Because you know, once you awaken a new part of yourself to that and you're exercising that muscle on a regular basis, you're like, oh, well, that's interesting.
00:04:07.539 -->
00:04:09.939You know, you start to become more aware and observant.
00:04:09.939 -->
00:04:23.939So in that, you and I unfolded a lot of conversations about a lot of things, not just ourselves, but you know, people around us, and how to help other people work through it too and become more free.
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00:04:36.019You know, there's a kept using the word liberation, you know, I felt this openness when I came back, and I still feel it, a sense of freedom around whatever's going on around me with all the beautiful humans.
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00:04:38.420So showing up differently.
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00:04:39.379For sure.
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00:04:41.139And you were quick to unpack this.
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00:04:58.899Like I remember it was it wasn't like an on-off switch, but definitely when you came back, it was clear who you were being and who you were not being, and what you were saying no to, you know, was like hard, not hard lines, but like much more clear in your own self.
00:04:58.899 -->
00:05:04.980Like, oh, that I don't need to be like you were saying, like so invested, like as you were talking about codependency.
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00:05:22.259I was sorry, I was trying the metaphor was trying to come of like it's almost like chains between, you know, like like they're like hooked together like velcro or locked together or something, you know, there's like some enmeshment, if you will, that happens in the codependent relationship, right?
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00:05:36.339And but you know, standing alone on your own two feet and being like two independent souls, humans, energy beings, whatever, instead of this enmeshment or overly giving or overly in the other person's space, whatever.
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00:05:38.980So yeah, yeah, they call it entanglement.
00:05:38.980 -->
00:05:52.819Yeah, it's like there is a weaving that people do, and we'll get into why this happens and how it happens, and how people can possibly consider if this might be going on with them.
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00:06:01.379Uh my personal opinion, and I said this to you before, is we're all doing it on varying degrees of levels and intensities.
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00:06:04.980And then over time, depending on relationships, they have phases and whatever.
00:06:04.980 -->
00:06:10.420So I do think a general awareness for all people would be helpful, right?
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00:06:13.860And we'll give them a lot to consider today as we discuss it.
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00:06:17.540Yeah, so we'll go over healthy and unhealthy attachment, you know.
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00:06:23.060And this is a little bit of the root when we've studied this, is like, well, you know, everything seems to come from childhood.
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00:06:26.740And so the doesn't it though, but doesn't it?
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00:06:30.420And mine, it still seems to be playing out in adulthood.
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00:06:32.339So I'm like, all right, it was rude.
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00:06:35.939Right, but I'm still doing it.
00:06:35.939 -->
00:06:41.139So this episode is definitely for Polly right now, you know, and we'll go along the journey.
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00:06:45.219And there might be some therapy from Sam or some coaching from Sam as we do.
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00:06:47.779So, but I'm all good, I'm all up for it.
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00:07:05.699So, yeah, we'll talk about unhealthy and then like really want to help you guys if you know, and what and one of the things I want to say is you could have very healthy relationships, healthy boundaries, healthy attachment, you might say, with quite a few people, and then some unhealthy with some others for whatever reason, right?
00:07:05.699 -->
00:07:14.659So we're not saying like you're 100% in all of your relationships, you have to be noticing all the unhealthiness that you know is creating codependency.
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00:07:15.779You might be on that spectrum.
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00:07:23.139Like I find that I'm a little bit more on that spectrum than healthy boundaries, if you will, and then healthy attachment.
00:07:23.139 -->
00:07:35.139So whether it's one or two relationships that as you listen to this, like listen for where am I maybe overgiving or you know, some things that we talk about, and just see, see if you want to restructure that, like you did.
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00:07:37.379You're like snap, snap, snapped out of it.
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00:07:38.100So, all right.
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00:07:40.019Well, what I think we should start with.
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00:07:42.579You found some wonderful definitions as well.
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00:07:43.779Love the root.
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00:07:48.019So tell us about attachment or yeah, attachment and codependency.
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00:07:50.019Let's do it.
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00:07:51.620Okay, let's start with attachment.
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00:08:03.540Okay, and this is a definition of attachment a deep emotional bond system rooted in evolutionary biology and early caregiving.
00:08:03.540 -->
00:08:13.540It dictates how your nervous system responds to threat, closeness, and separation.
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00:08:21.060Attachment, a deep emotional bond system.
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00:08:24.899I love that they say system, okay, because it is complex.
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00:08:33.060A deep emotional bond system rooted in evolutionary biology and early caregiving.
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00:08:39.300It dictates how your nervous system, which in turn affects everything, FYI people.
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00:08:47.940If you haven't followed the rest of our podcasts, it dictates how your nervous system responds to threat, closeness, and separation.
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00:08:51.860This is really primal shit, dude.
00:08:51.860 -->
00:08:54.500That's why it's we all got it.
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00:08:55.939Okay, nobody's avoiding this.
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00:08:56.259Sorry.
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00:08:59.860Two words in that speak, you know, biology and evolutionary, right?
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00:09:04.500Like that's got to tell you there's some you know, mammon-level brain action going on here.
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00:09:09.700And when you said systems, what I started to hear was, you know, we're not just talking about the mental.
00:09:09.939 -->
00:09:10.259Right.
00:09:10.580 -->
00:09:17.220Because there's so many systems in the body, and and it's not just like your thoughts are making you attach, right?
00:09:17.220 -->
00:09:23.059It's like, you know, how the body is, you know, needing closeness, or how does the body respond when it gets rejected?
00:09:23.059 -->
00:09:26.899I mean, like, we know how that somatically feels kinesthetic in our body.
00:09:26.899 -->
00:09:27.379So okay.
00:09:27.460 -->
00:09:31.299And that's why we generally can't think our way out of this shit, right?
00:09:31.299 -->
00:09:33.460Like, not that I'm opposed to talk therapy.
00:09:33.460 -->
00:09:38.980Obviously, I am a fan of therapy and all kinds of things, but like there's it's more complex than that.
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00:09:39.700100%.
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00:09:40.820Yeah, yeah.
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00:09:43.379Okay, so codependency.
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00:09:44.740Another sexy one.
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00:09:52.899And this one, if okay, just notice in your body how hearing this makes you feel yeah.
00:09:53.059 -->
00:09:55.779Watch how your nervous system responds to this one.
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00:10:17.539Okay, codependency, a learned set of survival behaviors where your identity, self-esteem, and emotional state depend heavily on the approval, the needs or the crisis of another person.
00:10:17.539 -->
00:10:23.700Again, again codependency, a learned set, okay?
00:10:23.700 -->
00:10:29.620A learned set, which means it can be unlearned, a learned set of survival behaviors.
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00:10:31.059Again, primal shit here.
00:10:31.059 -->
00:10:47.460A learned set of survival behaviors where your identity, your self-esteem, and your emotional state depend heavily on the approval, the needs or the crisis of another person.
00:10:49.460 -->
00:10:50.500Oh God.
00:10:51.939 -->
00:11:01.860Anyone feeling that in very survival stuff, yeah, survival pattern.
00:11:02.019 -->
00:11:03.379It's like wild.
00:11:03.620 -->
00:11:27.779You know, and when I was listening to some other pods and stuff, and people talking, you know, experts talking about codependency, and it's like, you know, it's it's you know, in various forms and whatever, but it's like that state of the little you, little, and I'll speak for myself, but like little me at some point feeling some sense of abandoned or would be abandoned, or inability to attach.
00:11:27.779 -->
00:11:33.620So there's a threat of aloneness, safety, safety, yeah, safety, right?
00:11:33.620 -->
00:11:34.820And so what do you do?
00:11:34.820 -->
00:11:56.419You start to go, and I think it I I don't, you know, as I'm talking out loud, like I'm thinking from my first person perspective, but like the relationship with my mom is what I think of in this scenario where I think I've learned a lot of this is you know, like this person, their chaos, their needs, like you like you were saying, like this I need to attach, right?
00:11:56.419 -->
00:12:01.059And so whatever's going on over there, like we gotta make it okay, right?
00:12:01.059 -->
00:12:08.179And responding to that to survive this, like if mother rejects you, like what happens to the little creature?
00:12:08.500 -->
00:12:10.580Right, yeah, die.
00:12:10.580 -->
00:12:11.700Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:12.100 -->
00:12:14.340Whether in whether conscious or subconscious, right?
00:12:14.340 -->
00:12:22.820Million brain level shits going on in that little me version is like, whoa, what what how do I how do I stay in your orbit?
00:12:22.820 -->
00:12:24.419How do I stay on your good side?
00:12:24.419 -->
00:12:27.539How do I, you know, whatever, so that you take care of me, right?
00:12:27.779 -->
00:12:32.100And the death can be physical or it could literally be an emotional or a spiritual death, right?
00:12:32.100 -->
00:12:38.659Depending on how you perceive the human experience, but all of those things are real, right?
00:12:38.659 -->
00:12:45.860And you're the little person trying to figure this out, and it's oh man, it's so complex.
00:12:45.860 -->
00:12:53.860And then we take that really lovely programming and all the complexities of it, right?
00:12:53.860 -->
00:12:58.500At whatever level we inherited all these things, and then we move them on to other people.
00:12:58.500 -->
00:13:01.059Now I gotta do that with my spouse.
00:13:01.059 -->
00:13:02.740Now I gotta do that with my boss.
00:13:02.740 -->
00:13:07.139Now I should do that with my friends, now I gotta do that with my children, right?
00:13:07.139 -->
00:13:13.939Because it's this learned programming, this behavioral programming that's so deep and like we said, primal.
00:13:13.939 -->
00:13:18.899And so it's just gonna come wherever we go, there it will go.
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00:13:23.220Yeah, it's it's the lenses through which we see relationship, right?
00:13:23.220 -->
00:13:41.059Like a need to feel loved, you know, and some of what we were talking about earlier, and I'm I'm sure there's great, you know, experts in how they speak it, but what I was hearing from them was often like our inherent self-worth is tied to the acceptance, this relationship going well, the needs of the others, am I valuable enough to them?
00:13:41.059 -->
00:13:42.419Can I solve their problems?
00:13:42.419 -->
00:13:46.340Can I control or manage their world so that I'm okay?
00:13:46.340 -->
00:13:46.899Right.
00:13:48.340 -->
00:13:48.820It's crazy.
00:13:49.059 -->
00:13:50.100And other things show up.
00:13:50.100 -->
00:13:52.419It's like if they're in pain, I'm in pain.
00:13:52.419 -->
00:13:56.179You know, if they don't have their needs met, I don't have my needs met.
00:13:56.179 -->
00:13:58.100It's just all of this stuff.
00:13:58.500 -->
00:14:23.379That enmeshment and immersion, you know, one was one definition I was seeing something about like when the bond or the relationship is so enmeshed, it's like the person is giving in order to, and they're just like it the overgiving shows up out of experience of just like a probably erasing the anxiety that that like I feel or whatever, and the need to know that everything's gonna be okay.
00:14:23.379 -->
00:14:24.899Like, if you're okay, then I'm okay.
00:14:24.899 -->
00:14:27.299Like over caretaking for you.
00:14:27.299 -->
00:14:30.500And when you're not okay, like I'm doing something wrong, right?
00:14:30.500 -->
00:14:32.580Something's wrong with me because you're not okay.
00:14:33.860 -->
00:14:39.460It can show up as a fear-based feeling, an anxiety-based feeling, like you just mentioned.
00:14:39.460 -->
00:14:44.340Also, just a deep sense of like value and worth.
00:14:44.340 -->
00:14:46.259Am I valuable?
00:14:46.259 -->
00:14:51.539Am I being perceived as value, you know, to this person in this relationship?
00:14:51.539 -->
00:14:54.740Am I even being seen and appreciated?
00:14:54.740 -->
00:14:55.139Right.
00:14:55.139 -->
00:14:59.139So that needing, it has so many layers to it, right?
00:14:59.139 -->
00:15:03.779Like I need to feel needed and therefore I will be valuable.
00:15:03.779 -->
00:15:07.779Like all of those things that are misconceptions, of course, right?
00:15:07.779 -->
00:15:11.299Like you're valuable, just the fact that you're alive and breathing and you exist.
00:15:11.299 -->
00:15:21.779You don't need to do any damn thing, but we're just taught to do these behaviors because of that constant need for that feedback loop, whichever one we're sort of caught in.
00:15:22.340 -->
00:15:31.700And I think two of the most common traits that I heard spoken from other therapists and experts on this is people pleasing and overgiving.
00:15:31.700 -->
00:15:45.299So if there's any relationship as you're looking and listening to us right now, and you're like, well, I don't, I don't really have that O over here, you know, might be at work, you know, like a work dynamic or totally.
00:15:45.460 -->
00:15:47.539Yeah, work is really common.
00:15:47.539 -->
00:15:59.860I think not to be sexist, but generally you'll see men expressing more in those ways, and you tend to see a female person possibly more expressing in the ways of the family's needs or the children or the spouse's needs, right?
00:15:59.860 -->
00:16:03.299Like we're all having relationships all the time.
00:16:03.299 -->
00:16:08.100And so you can project that shit wherever you want.
00:16:08.100 -->
00:16:13.700You know, it's almost like I just got those clingy balls, you know, where it's the velcro and the ball sticks to it.
00:16:14.980 -->
00:16:16.500Oh, I found you today.
00:16:17.059 -->
00:16:17.779Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:16:17.779 -->
00:16:22.740So let's create some clarity of like unhealthy attachment, right?
00:16:22.740 -->
00:16:25.779So, like inside of codependence or inside of attachment.
00:16:25.779 -->
00:16:30.740Um so there's we did another pod if you want to listen to that, was like attachment, non-attachment, and detachment.
00:16:30.740 -->
00:16:34.820So we're gonna talk about attachment and healthy and unhealthy.
00:16:34.820 -->
00:16:36.980So yeah, let's go into it.
00:16:39.220 -->
00:16:40.340What does it look like?
00:16:41.939 -->
00:16:47.139So I would say, you know, we we talked about this like overgiving and people pleasing.
00:16:47.139 -->
00:16:47.939Like, I'm okay.
00:16:47.939 -->
00:16:49.539I'm only okay if you're okay.
00:16:49.539 -->
00:16:56.820Yeah, like and you know, one of the things I want to make this first person for me is what I I was sharing this with you earlier.
00:16:56.820 -->
00:17:02.500It's like I start like as a coach, you know, who's derived, like where does coach come from?
00:17:02.500 -->
00:17:08.100Probably from lots of years of having someone that needed some fixing or help, right?
00:17:08.100 -->
00:17:19.059Like I feel this, you know, I'm trained in it, if you will, from a lifetime of exposure to neediness, if you will, or fixing some coming to me with problems, if you will.
00:17:19.059 -->
00:17:22.820And so it's like, how can I make you okay?
00:17:22.820 -->
00:17:32.260How can, you know, like your oh your not okayness is either upsetting to me or is imbalancing me, or I'm taking responsibility to fix it, right?
00:17:32.260 -->
00:17:36.900And I can tell you years, decades, decades that I that I had this pattern.
00:17:36.900 -->
00:17:44.020And well, still, you know, like I'm just like this is kind of new for me, just to notice how prevalent it is, right?
00:17:44.020 -->
00:17:50.260So being overly concerned and attached to that person's well-being.
00:17:50.260 -->
00:17:56.980And I and I looked at it, the lens through like the coaching lens, I would say, is oh, I don't like to see people suffering, right?
00:17:56.980 -->
00:18:00.900Like, of course, like that sounds all noble and you know exactly.
00:18:01.380 -->
00:18:04.500Isn't it interesting how we do elevate that?
00:18:04.500 -->
00:18:11.220Oh, you are so compassionate, you are so giving, you are so altruistic, you are so la la la la, right?
00:18:11.220 -->
00:18:22.580So as a society, we put that really on a pedestal, like it's a badge of honor, and then we walk around and we wear that and we feel like we have to keep delivering that over and over and over.
00:18:22.580 -->
00:18:40.260And of course, what we're talking about today is the tricky part of being a compassionate human and being in close connection and of service in ways that are helpful, but not at the cost of us or in an unhealthy pattern, right?
00:18:40.260 -->
00:18:45.940There we're not saying don't be of service to people and don't be helpful and compassionate.
00:18:45.940 -->
00:18:47.700We are those people.
00:18:47.700 -->
00:18:51.860I mean, hello, it's literally our entire life's work, it's built around that, right?
00:18:51.860 -->
00:18:57.780But how can you do that and still maintain the self and the integrity of the self without that entanglement?
00:18:58.340 -->
00:19:05.540Yeah, so as you were saying, I was like, wow, I just justified a survival behavior that's keeping that's keeping me stuck.
00:19:05.540 -->
00:19:09.940Like, oh, I'm justifying it as you know, better, you know, it's so noble.
00:19:09.940 -->
00:19:11.780I want to help and get people out of suffering.
00:19:11.780 -->
00:19:12.820It's like, what the hell?
00:19:12.820 -->
00:19:15.700That's my survival basic need going on.
00:19:15.940 -->
00:19:19.380I see a lot of religions based in that behavior.
00:19:20.580 -->
00:19:21.860For sure, for sure.
00:19:21.860 -->
00:19:22.340Yeah.
00:19:22.500 -->
00:19:25.220So, you know, it's one way.
00:19:25.460 -->
00:19:27.300Yeah, so like how that looks as a coach.
00:19:27.300 -->
00:19:31.460So you might have this in your managerial style, you know, like like coaching.
00:19:31.460 -->
00:19:35.300So it's like like I'm more invested in the results than they are, right?
00:19:35.300 -->
00:19:40.740Like I have a particular client, and we're talking now about the shift in her uh leadership style, right?
00:19:40.740 -->
00:19:42.980Because she has this like rescuer thing.
00:19:42.980 -->
00:19:48.020It's like the team is is not getting everything done, just she like goes and gets it all done, you know.
00:19:48.020 -->
00:19:59.620And it's like, well, she sweeps the floor with all the insufficiencies of her team or something like that, you know, and and it it's like, and in some ways it's it has this dual sword in that relationship.
00:19:59.620 -->
00:20:07.300We won't go too much into it, but there's like this codependent, like I keep you in neediness so that you don't ever like rise to the occasion.
00:20:07.300 -->
00:20:20.340I don't see you as a leader and totally capable, and just hold you to like you got this, and maybe show you, you know, like there might be some training here and there, but it's not the rescuing, that's not a leader's job, that's nobody's job, right?
00:20:20.580 -->
00:20:22.900We it's not a parent's job either.
00:20:22.900 -->
00:20:27.300Yeah, you see this a lot in parenting, and I have even grandkids, grandparenting, right?
00:20:27.300 -->
00:20:35.140So you have this want to have them not suffer, of course, but also to be successful.
00:20:35.140 -->
00:20:37.140Like, hey, I want you to crush all things.
00:20:37.140 -->
00:20:41.860I want you to be healthy and get a good education and go out and earn a nice living and blah, blah, blah, right?
00:20:41.860 -->
00:20:45.300So we take our kids and we get this this shit.
00:20:45.300 -->
00:20:47.940I mean, what in the hell's Bells is going?
00:20:47.940 -->
00:20:50.900Like, I've never seen it in the year 2026.
00:20:50.900 -->
00:20:52.500It's up pretty off the rails.
00:20:52.500 -->
00:21:06.740And I think the pandemic sort of was a catalyst for you know, people bringing their kids in closer, their family members in closer and creating more codependency just based on the tightness of the space and the intensity of the outside world coming at us.
00:21:06.740 -->
00:21:11.540You know, we were all like in defense of this thing that was going to kill us all and blah, blah, blah, whatever, you know.
00:21:11.540 -->
00:21:27.220So we need to get back out into the real world and open up space for our young people in our lives, no matter who they are to us, to forge their own path and gain independence and skill set.
00:21:27.220 -->
00:21:33.620So, yeah, this does happen in the workspace a lot, but boy, in the home space, dang girl.
00:21:33.620 -->
00:21:34.260Okay.
00:21:34.900 -->
00:21:35.140Yeah.
00:21:35.140 -->
00:21:36.740So talk a little bit, you know.
00:21:36.740 -->
00:21:38.980I I think I want to double-click on this a little bit.
00:21:38.980 -->
00:21:53.780There's as you were talking about that, I'm hearing like a little bit of, you know, the helicoptering that we've heard about and the parenting dynamic, but we also see it peer-to-peer, I think, too, you know, like like the clinginess of groups.
00:21:53.780 -->
00:22:06.020Like, I can't tell you one of the things I think about, I just want to insert this, is as you were sharing that, was like the little baby bird, and the mom is like, go fly, you know, and it's like, see ya, like, like just get after it.
00:22:06.020 -->
00:22:09.300Not like she doesn't help them out the way, you know.
00:22:09.300 -->
00:22:11.540It's like, no, you gotta try it.
00:22:11.540 -->
00:22:18.820And in the I don't know if it's millennials or what the next generation is, how they sort of cling to each other as well.
00:22:18.820 -->
00:22:26.020You know, they create these little groups and like I s I can't tell you how many of them I see rarely on their own.
00:22:26.020 -->
00:22:38.740Like they're often groups of five or six or something, you know, and it it's not that that's unhealthy, but that that interdependence is quite stronger than you know, like the I don't know.
00:22:38.740 -->
00:22:50.580I I think survival at the root brain is about like sameness and staying together, and yet progress and evolution is about continuing beyond that, right?
00:22:50.580 -->
00:22:52.020So like rising up above that.
00:22:52.020 -->
00:23:02.980So we have to find a way to, you know, manage this clinging and enmeshment, but also like you were saying, like be totally capable on our own.
00:23:04.180 -->
00:23:16.180I mean, there is this, you know, if I'm gonna be safer in a group or I'm gonna be safer if I'm accepted, I'm inside the tribe or circle and I will survive, right?
00:23:16.180 -->
00:23:19.620I will have my needs met, whatever the needs might be.
00:23:19.620 -->
00:23:28.100That happens all the time as civilization has, you know, moved itself forward for millions and millions and millions of years.
00:23:28.100 -->
00:23:43.620And it is interesting to see how individuality and you know being unique, like it's almost like there's phases to culture, and there's definitely in different religions and different cultures where it's a thing or it's not a thing or whatever.
00:23:43.620 -->
00:23:59.700But there's a healthy balance there to being part of and having something to contribute in a group setting versus being an individual and being able to speak up, stand up, be unique, be seen, be heard, be respected, right?
00:23:59.700 -->
00:24:01.140Like finding a balance there.
00:24:01.140 -->
00:24:12.100And I think if you look at youth in general, you know, people hopefully are having in their youth an experience of doing both of those things.
00:24:12.100 -->
00:24:25.780And it's really ultimately the parent and the household that sort of decides what is normal that is ebb and an ebb and flow of these experiences should be a normal experience, right?
00:24:25.780 -->
00:24:27.220I would hope.
00:24:27.220 -->
00:24:37.220But if we don't operate from that place or we have fear and anxiety around our child's well-being, and well-being can be, did they get their feelings hurt?
00:24:37.220 -->
00:24:38.900Not are they gonna break an arm?
00:24:38.900 -->
00:24:39.620You know what I mean?
00:24:39.620 -->
00:24:46.020It's like literally we are so afraid of them having a bad emotional experience.
00:24:46.020 -->
00:24:52.340They got their feelings hurt, somebody was mean to them, you know, this they were rejected or whatever.
00:24:52.340 -->
00:24:59.300This is our shit that we are literally putting on these kids because that nothing has even happened yet, by the way, to them.
00:24:59.300 -->
00:25:03.860And also maybe nothing ever will, but let's say it does, because that's called life.
00:25:03.860 -->
00:25:14.500As they grow up, they will learn how to deal with that and they will develop skills around communicating with peers or with strangers or going into new environments.
00:25:14.500 -->
00:25:18.340They will learn how to adapt and evolve if we give them the opportunity.
00:25:18.340 -->
00:25:21.620And of course, if we do not, they will not learn.
00:25:21.620 -->
00:25:24.500And then they're a young adult now in those circumstances.
00:25:24.500 -->
00:25:26.180The stakes are now higher.
00:25:26.180 -->
00:25:30.660And then they're an adult in the real world, college or work.
00:25:30.660 -->
00:25:33.460And now the stakes are really high, right?
00:25:33.460 -->
00:25:37.860So as they get older, the stakes get higher, parents.
00:25:37.860 -->
00:25:49.380And so we're doing them such an incredible disservice by not allowing them to figure some of the shit out on their own, to experience bad experiences, to grow from that.
00:25:49.380 -->
00:25:56.740Of course, we're gonna be there if something goes wrong, and we will help to, you know, have them work through that.
00:25:56.740 -->
00:26:00.980But again, it's not our job to rescue or to make sure it never happens.
00:26:00.980 -->
00:26:04.580I mean, what are we wrapping our kids in bubble wrap as they go out?
00:26:04.580 -->
00:26:06.660Yeah, like we can't do that emotionally.
00:26:06.660 -->
00:26:09.780We if we did that physically, it would be ridiculous, right?
00:26:09.780 -->
00:26:12.820But we are doing it to them psychologically and emotionally.
00:26:12.820 -->
00:26:13.780What's the difference?
00:26:13.940 -->
00:26:14.420Mm-hmm.
00:26:14.500 -->
00:26:14.820Mm-hmm.
00:26:14.820 -->
00:26:15.860It's not good.
00:26:15.860 -->
00:26:23.540Yeah, that inter, you know, interdependence enmeshment where, you know, like that that were that their well-being.
00:26:23.540 -->
00:26:32.660So like some of the telltale signs is like their well-being or lack of it says something about you, or like you're okay, you're not okay based on them.
00:26:33.220 -->
00:26:36.260Or am I a good parent or a bad parent because society's watching.
00:26:37.220 -->
00:26:41.620And some of so people pleasing, overgiving, they're okay, they're not okay.
00:26:41.620 -->
00:26:56.020And then also like like the I like that statement about like you erase yourself because I see my when I do that, you know, where it's like I'm so involved and invested in how you're doing, like, how are you today, or what's going on in your world, or whatever.
00:26:56.020 -->
00:27:00.980Like that we get off the phone and I may have never even shared anything about my life, right?
00:27:00.980 -->
00:27:03.060Or what what what I'm facing or dealing with.
00:27:03.060 -->
00:27:05.220It's like, well, now I'll be okay over here.
00:27:05.220 -->
00:27:14.820There was this great TED talk I saw one time, and this somewhat relates, and I'm just gonna bring it in because it it hit something in my my ner my brain.
00:27:14.820 -->
00:27:16.260It was like, oh, this relates to that.
00:27:16.260 -->
00:27:21.380And she talked a lot about how when there's a person of high needs in the family, right?
00:27:21.380 -->
00:27:29.380So imagine a let's call it a little bit standard American family back in the day, you know, husband, wife, kids.
00:27:29.380 -->
00:27:41.220There was a member of the family unit that had high needs, and there was a like, let's say a girl growing up, just for example, like me, that I would placate her.
00:27:41.220 -->
00:27:49.940I would not have high needs or not put my needs second, so that the member of the family that had high needs was okay.
00:27:49.940 -->
00:27:52.660It was like she called it like being a good girl.
00:27:52.660 -->
00:28:05.300It was like, oh, you be a good girl because there's another family member that maybe it's the disease, you know, mom's sick or alcoholism, or a family uh the sibling has a learning disorder or something.
00:28:05.300 -->
00:28:10.020Something's going on in the family that that it creates this imbalance.
00:28:10.020 -->
00:28:13.620So that one's like, Well, I won't, I won't need more, right?
00:28:13.620 -->
00:28:15.060So that can show up too.
00:28:15.060 -->
00:28:26.580So if you see where you got trained in that, you know, that you know, graduate that for 30 years, 40 years later, and you just are like talking to people, and it's like all about them, right?
00:28:26.580 -->
00:28:28.500And then I'm speaking from first person here.
00:28:28.500 -->
00:28:28.900Yeah.
00:28:30.740 -->
00:28:37.780I also see it with the parents, or and I, you know, I'm a parent and a grandparent, so I'm definitely speaking from experience.
00:28:37.780 -->
00:28:40.340I got a lot of I got a lot of people over here.
00:28:40.660 -->
00:28:43.060You got a lot of relationships, yeah.
00:28:43.300 -->
00:28:45.540I service a lot of relationships.
00:28:45.540 -->
00:29:04.580You can get this is like a red flag, resentful, because you can learn to, or you can experience that maybe they're not being receptive or adaptive to all of your great ideas and support and giving and dah dah dah da.
00:29:04.580 -->
00:29:06.820So you start to get resentful.
00:29:06.820 -->
00:29:11.700That is a very obvious sign, like, hey, yo, you be codependent, okay?
00:29:11.700 -->
00:29:14.980That's what that, that's why you got that going on.
00:29:14.980 -->
00:29:26.660And then besides that really fun experience, another thing I see is you know, people getting really overly attached to other people's success, right?
00:29:26.660 -->
00:29:34.500So it's like, hey, I did all these things and I gave you all this advice, or I supported you, or I paid for your education, whatever, right?
00:29:34.500 -->
00:29:44.900And so my expectation now is that you're gonna be successful under my tutelage, okay, because I have responsibility there, because I helped you be successful.
00:29:44.900 -->
00:29:49.060And now you better be absolutely crushing it because I have these expectations, right?
00:29:49.060 -->
00:29:58.500So then there's resentment, anger, you know, all the disorder, disappointment, always just feeling like, you know.
00:29:59.140 -->
00:30:03.460I gave you so much, and this is Yeah, this weird thing.
00:30:04.900 -->
00:30:06.820Weird, the shit that we do.
00:30:06.820 -->
00:30:22.340I mean, we have to laugh about it because it's ludicrous to think that if my child or a grandchild or a friend or whatever coworker is not successful, it's an assault to me.
00:30:22.340 -->
00:30:26.500Okay, it's a what the hell is that?
00:30:26.500 -->
00:30:26.980Right.
00:30:26.980 -->
00:30:29.780That's severe entanglement, yeah.
00:30:32.260 -->
00:30:34.260The lens is distorted, if you will.
00:30:34.260 -->
00:30:38.660So let's talk about like intimate relationships, right?
00:30:38.660 -->
00:30:41.060So those closest to us, right?
00:30:41.060 -->
00:30:43.140So what does some of this start to look like?
00:30:43.220 -->
00:30:47.140Oh yeah, partnering and spousing, that's a thing, dude.
00:30:47.140 -->
00:30:49.620I watched a little bit of it this weekend.
00:30:49.620 -->
00:30:55.700Well, first of all, I've been married for 28 years, and this is my second marriage, so I got a lot of experience in that.
00:30:55.700 -->
00:30:59.780And before that, I had no shortage of boyfriends, okay?
00:30:59.780 -->
00:31:03.460Like I have done relationships waiting, yeah.
00:31:03.460 -->
00:31:13.620Yes, exactly, in these ways, and that can be super complex because initially you might be attracted to the person because of your similarities.
00:31:13.620 -->
00:31:21.620Not everybody is, but a lot of times, you know, we're looking for somebody who like same music style or puzzle pieces, yeah.
00:31:21.620 -->
00:31:23.620Yeah, we're puzzle pieces in the same puzzle.
00:31:23.620 -->
00:31:26.180We got to be together, you know, that kind of thing, right?
00:31:26.180 -->
00:31:29.940And so there's an initially might be some attraction in that area.
00:31:29.940 -->
00:31:43.380And then what ends up happening is you expect that person forever to be that same person because you need them to be that and reflect back to you who you are in the world and all of that kind of stuff, right?
00:31:43.380 -->
00:31:50.580So it can get very, very strange because, first of all, none of us are the same day to day, never mind year to year.
00:31:50.580 -->
00:31:52.900I'm not even the same person I was yesterday.
00:31:52.900 -->
00:31:55.700I am telling you right now, I am not that person.
00:31:55.700 -->
00:32:00.660I have already moved on to something else, whatever I'm thinking about and doing today.
00:32:00.660 -->
00:32:14.660And so a healthy relationship would honor and nurture that and in fact celebrate that, which means there's going to be times where you feel not so close because you're in growth phases individually, which is great.
00:32:14.660 -->
00:32:22.820And then besides the individuals being in growth evolutions, I hope they are, the relationship will change over time.
00:32:22.820 -->
00:32:27.780It'll look different, it'll feel different, it'll sound different, it'll operate different, right?
00:32:27.780 -->
00:32:35.780But people get ideas that they have to play by the same rules that when they first started dating before they got married.
00:32:36.420 -->
00:32:42.100I think what you're pointing to as the unhealthy portion of this is expecting the person to stay the same.
00:32:42.340 -->
00:32:42.820Yeah.
00:32:43.060 -->
00:32:43.300Right?
00:32:43.300 -->
00:32:45.940Expecting yourself and the other person to stay the same.
00:32:45.940 -->
00:32:50.420It's like, oh, we're always gonna be this close, we're always gonna be just like this, you know.
00:32:50.740 -->
00:32:53.220Or you're always gonna meet my needs because that's in the contract.
00:32:53.220 -->
00:32:54.340Did you read the contract?
00:32:54.340 -->
00:32:55.780Okay.
00:32:55.780 -->
00:32:59.620How about this thing when we get married and we say these things called vows?
00:32:59.620 -->
00:33:01.780It's basically a freaking contract.
00:33:01.940 -->
00:33:02.180Yeah.
00:33:02.340 -->
00:33:04.260Who the he by the way, does anyone do that anymore?
00:33:04.260 -->
00:33:05.140I have no idea.
00:33:05.140 -->
00:33:07.300But it's like that's a thing.
00:33:07.300 -->
00:33:12.180We culturally as a society are like, well, there's a rule book.
00:33:12.820 -->
00:33:15.460And some of them, guess what, are not spoken.
00:33:15.620 -->
00:33:18.740And some of them are well, most of them are not spoken.
00:33:18.980 -->
00:33:29.300I learned in that communication course last year when I was doing all that work with Landmark, it was like we have unspoken rules of engagement to relationship, and people bump up against them.
00:33:29.300 -->
00:33:31.300It's like, whoa, but that's for another episode.
00:33:31.300 -->
00:33:43.140But anyway, so so unhealthy, like you were talking about in relationship, is this expecting the same, or like, you know, just kind of clinging to the way it was in the beginning, or or something.
00:33:43.140 -->
00:33:49.700And I would say for me, I'll give a couple of my telltale signs of the codependency was with along with the overgiving.
00:33:49.700 -->
00:33:54.180So, like thinking overgiving is like the need to be needed.
00:33:54.180 -->
00:34:00.900Oh, yeah, and not recognizing that as a bad thing because I was so freaking used to it.
00:34:00.900 -->
00:34:05.620It was like, of course I would make your breakfast, of course I would do your laundry, of course, you know, all these.
00:34:05.620 -->
00:34:07.860It's like, what the hell?
00:34:07.860 -->
00:34:15.219Like, no, and and over giving, like, and you know, and you talked about that resentment.
00:34:15.219 -->
00:34:24.019So for so long, not resenting, because it was just like, well, of course, this is just how it has always been in my relationships, you know, that I'm used to.
00:34:24.019 -->
00:34:29.700But hello, hello, no, so notice needed and valued, dude.
00:34:29.860 -->
00:34:32.180Needed and valued, right?
00:34:32.180 -->
00:34:37.140Because the needed is one thing, like I serve a purpose, I have a role in this relationship.
00:34:37.140 -->
00:34:44.340This is our unwritten contractor rules, and then the valued part is like, do you see how I'm adding value over here?
00:34:44.340 -->
00:34:48.660Do you see how good I I'm speaking from my own 32 things I do?
00:34:48.740 -->
00:34:52.019Yeah, do you see how good I am delivering on this, people?
00:34:52.019 -->
00:34:53.300Okay, hello.
00:34:53.300 -->
00:34:54.820Do you see me crushing it over here?
00:34:54.820 -->
00:34:56.820How good is your life, fools?
00:34:56.820 -->
00:34:57.380Right?
00:34:57.619 -->
00:35:00.980What in the hell do I care if they even recognize that or not?
00:35:00.980 -->
00:35:04.579How about how good is my life?
00:35:04.820 -->
00:35:09.300Yeah, right, and the giving and receiving, you know, that balance.
00:35:09.300 -->
00:35:16.260So where if it's just totally like to the the tipping, you know, the tipping point is over in that direction, right?
00:35:16.260 -->
00:35:20.099And and not even having a problem with it for a long, long time.
00:35:20.260 -->
00:35:26.340So again, if resentment's showing up, some of this stuff is at play.
00:35:27.059 -->
00:35:34.980And you know, and as you know, women of you know, middle age we could say, or men also we have these dual relationships.
00:35:34.980 -->
00:35:41.860We got the children giving and then the parent giving, and it's just this is pouring out that can be going on.
00:35:42.099 -->
00:35:50.099Oh, I mean I mean, you have depending on the structure of your life, partner, right?
00:35:50.099 -->
00:35:52.660And then children, and then parents.
00:35:52.660 -->
00:36:04.180So talk about a trifector from hell, you're trying to service these three major areas, yeah, of I mean the depth of these relationships, right?
00:36:04.180 -->
00:36:12.099And the pressure on anyone, it doesn't matter, male, female, or whatever, like just to be servicing that dynamic.
00:36:12.099 -->
00:36:29.539Um, because I know very I know lots and lots of men who have put a lot into their families, not just their career in the traditional way, but really care deeply about investing in the success and their children and those relationships and their parents.
00:36:29.539 -->
00:36:31.539It's it's a lot.
00:36:31.700 -->
00:36:32.500It's a lot.
00:36:32.900 -->
00:36:37.860The other one I would add to this unhealthy is you know, making excuses for bad behavior.
00:36:37.860 -->
00:36:45.940Whether it's their own, like they're treating themselves poorly or they're treating, you know, bad behavior towards you, I would say as well.
00:36:46.500 -->
00:37:01.700Well, the excusing of bad behaviors, and if that's coming up, somebody is misbehaving and you're somehow, you know, tolerating that misbehavior, I mean, that's can be a whole other layer of dysfunction, right?
00:37:01.700 -->
00:37:08.500But if you think about it from a codependency or an attachment orientation, since that's what we're talking about today, right?
00:37:08.500 -->
00:37:13.460Like, why would we tolerate that from another human?
00:37:13.460 -->
00:37:22.099What about our self is so desperate to stay in that connection with that person?
00:37:22.099 -->
00:37:34.740You know, why is our value or our safety or our worth attached to being in that, you know, and and tolerating harm, psychological, emotional, physical.
00:37:34.740 -->
00:37:35.539Why?
00:37:35.860 -->
00:37:40.660Yeah, I think part of it is the need to be needed, like to stay in relationship.
00:37:40.660 -->
00:37:44.820It's like I'm getting so much, or my needs are dependent on you, right?
00:37:44.820 -->
00:37:54.260And so if if you leave me, then it's you know, back to that rooted childhood abandonment, you know, loneliness, I'm alone, abandonment.
00:37:54.260 -->
00:37:57.460And it's so slippery, like it's not obvious, right?
00:37:57.460 -->
00:38:04.260Like me making me or whoever making excuses for bad behavior, like it just seems like forgiveness, right?
00:38:04.260 -->
00:38:09.380Or, you know, like being compassionate or sympathetic or whatever, right?
00:38:09.380 -->
00:38:14.260But like take that a few steps back and it's like, what's really going on there, right?
00:38:14.260 -->
00:38:27.619Like, why would I either allow someone to treat me that way or allow them to treat themselves that way and be around it, you know, whether it's you know, the physical verbal abuse situations that people can be in or neglectful situations, right?
00:38:27.619 -->
00:38:34.579Like neglect of a person is uh bad behavior, like, hey, we're in a relationship, you know, neglect and it could be finances.
00:38:34.980 -->
00:38:44.980I see a lot around people giving money to other people and financially supporting other people in whatever the relationship is, which is completely ridiculous.
00:38:44.980 -->
00:38:56.660Like they can not even be servicing their own financial needs because they're so busy giving to another person in a financial way again to keep them safe.
00:38:56.660 -->
00:39:00.500Maybe they genuinely suck at finances and they need that money, right?
00:39:00.500 -->
00:39:03.220They can't pay their rent this month or whatever all's going on.
00:39:03.220 -->
00:39:37.860Or the person just feels like, hey, maybe you're you're gonna be safe, but at the same time, I feel like I should give my resources to you as an act of love or as an act of showing you, you know, whatever somehow, again, codependency-wise, if you need me, you need me to help pay your bills, you need me to be financially, you know, stable or something, then you're not going anywhere anytime soon, right?
00:39:37.860 -->
00:39:41.140That's problematic, right?
00:39:41.460 -->
00:39:47.220You know, so I want to add a couple of things here from some work that we've studied, internal family systems.
00:39:47.220 -->
00:39:51.140But first I want to say so that that fear, love, distinction, right?
00:39:51.140 -->
00:39:53.780The unhealthy attached is fear-based.
00:39:53.780 -->
00:39:56.660And it said, so I do this so you won't leave.
00:39:56.660 -->
00:40:01.140Like that's rooted way in the back with their subconscious, you know, you're not necessarily aware of it.
00:40:01.140 -->
00:40:05.860Like I said, like you might look at it like, oh, I'm being forgiving here, but like what's behind it?
00:40:05.860 -->
00:40:08.579You know, and healthy attachment is generosity based.
00:40:08.579 -->
00:40:12.500I do this because I care and I'm and I'm okay either way, you know.
00:40:12.500 -->
00:40:13.300Exactly.
00:40:13.460 -->
00:40:17.539Yeah, and it's like leave-I do this because I want to, I'm not attached to the outcomes.
00:40:17.860 -->
00:40:23.220So internal family systems, if you haven't studied that or heard about that, look elsewhere, you know, for that.
00:40:23.220 -->
00:40:25.780But it's therapy-based, right?
00:40:25.780 -->
00:40:29.220So it says like we have parts of ourselves, right?
00:40:29.220 -->
00:40:31.300You know, that really talks about like there's parts of us.
00:40:31.300 -->
00:40:39.780We have this in almost like an internal family within us, ways of being, you know, that could be the protector, that could be the champion, that could be the the the hurt one, right?
00:40:39.780 -->
00:40:44.980And from internal family systems explains why this happens, even when you know better.
00:40:44.980 -->
00:40:49.059It says a wounded younger part, like an exile, right?
00:40:49.059 -->
00:40:58.820So like there's a part of you that's like, oh, I'm abandoned or exiled, carries a belief like I'm not enough, or people leave, and there's a protector part, right?
00:40:58.820 -->
00:41:00.340So you have these different parts of you.
00:41:00.340 -->
00:41:16.019So you've got this wounded, exiled part of you, and then you create a protector part of you, like a survival strategy that builds an entire operating system around that wound called overfunctioning, caretaking, controlling outcomes, fixing.
00:41:16.019 -->
00:41:19.860And it's not love, it's a protector strategy, right?
00:41:19.860 -->
00:41:35.460Like you talked about that biological evolution of like systems that get taught or learned how to cope with that sad little girl, little boy that you know got abandoned or was neglected or you know, left, you know, may have been physically left blind, right?
00:41:35.700 -->
00:41:36.740Right, exactly.
00:41:36.740 -->
00:41:38.579And you never move past it.
00:41:38.579 -->
00:41:49.619You take that wound and you carry it with you forever, and you generate an incredible cast of characters in play, if you will, around servicing the needs of that wound.
00:41:49.619 -->
00:41:53.380So the wound is never available to heal, right?
00:41:53.380 -->
00:42:00.900It's like I have a cut on my arm, and every day I'm gonna continue to lacerate the cut or rub it, or no, dude, it's not gonna heal.
00:42:00.900 -->
00:42:02.740That's not how things heal.
00:42:03.700 -->
00:42:09.780So that was that was the last point I wanted to make in the unhealthy before we get into what healthy looks like.
00:42:09.780 -->
00:42:11.140Phew, right?
00:42:11.140 -->
00:42:13.700Okay, okay.
00:42:13.940 -->
00:42:15.539So there's a way out.
00:42:15.539 -->
00:42:16.260I promise.
00:42:16.500 -->
00:42:18.980So let's start to frame, and you know, look at this.
00:42:18.980 -->
00:42:27.460This isn't, these are some things that Sam and Polly have to share with you, but there's lots of definitions of like healthy relationship, healthy boundaries, healthy attachment.
00:42:27.460 -->
00:42:28.579So these are just some of them.
00:42:28.579 -->
00:42:31.619So, you know, healthy isn't the absence of caring.
00:42:31.619 -->
00:42:33.940You know, uh, we talked about like attachment, non-attachment.
00:42:33.940 -->
00:42:38.019It's not like I don't give a fuck anymore, you know, you know, like peace out, y'all.
00:42:38.019 -->
00:42:41.300I mean, it can be caring, but without the requiring.
00:42:41.300 -->
00:42:44.340You know, it's it's loving without gripping.
00:42:44.340 -->
00:42:47.940It's like I'm okay if you're not okay, right?
00:42:47.940 -->
00:42:48.980Exactly.
00:42:48.980 -->
00:42:58.740I'm okay if I don't, you know, check in on you, know how you're doing, and like overgive, and you know, like all these protecting, providing and stuff, right?
00:42:59.059 -->
00:43:01.780Connecting without the clinging, right?
00:43:01.780 -->
00:43:08.260There can be compassion and connection without the clinging to to then what to anything beyond that.
00:43:09.140 -->
00:43:20.820I think the the image too is a good one, that enmeshment that sort of like these like a velcro or you know, it should stay like you can have oil and vinegar salad dressing, and they're still oil and vinegar.
00:43:20.820 -->
00:43:30.260They might be like hanging out together, but it's not like oil suddenly changed its cellular makeup so that water, you know, could you know could get in or whatever.
00:43:30.260 -->
00:43:42.340So, you know, its connection is mutual and it's flexible, and it's not like consuming or boundaryless, you know, like vinegar doesn't just open up itself and say, water, come in, right?
00:43:42.340 -->
00:43:44.579It's like no, I'm I stay vinegar, you stay water.
00:43:44.579 -->
00:43:51.619Okay, we we can become salad dressing, but we're not breaking our bonds to become one.
00:43:52.260 -->
00:43:52.820Exactly.
00:43:53.059 -->
00:43:54.099Yeah, yeah.
00:43:54.099 -->
00:43:56.740So let's see, what else do we have here?
00:43:56.740 -->
00:44:02.019Healthy dependency is real and necessary, so you are allowed to lean on people, right?
00:44:02.099 -->
00:44:03.619Like, of course.
00:44:04.019 -->
00:44:04.420Absolutely.
00:44:04.740 -->
00:44:07.300I mean, we're freaking coaches, we are coached.
00:44:07.380 -->
00:44:16.579We like this is of course so the issue isn't needing others, it's when your sense of self disappears inside the relationship.
00:44:16.579 -->
00:44:18.420That's the difference.
00:44:18.420 -->
00:44:23.140So you can need Other people, but you still are like standalone, like on your own, right?
00:44:23.140 -->
00:44:36.900So when you start to disappear into others, make your make yourself small, make your needs less important, that overgiving shows up, that striving to, you know, provide for other people, that's where things get that imbalance, right?
00:44:36.900 -->
00:44:37.780So it's healthy.
00:44:37.780 -->
00:44:41.619We just want to say, like, yeah, need people, get support, all of that, right?
00:44:41.780 -->
00:44:42.820Yeah, totally.
00:44:43.380 -->
00:44:47.059So, and then the other spectrum is hyper independence.
00:44:47.059 -->
00:44:49.140I don't need anyone.
00:44:49.140 -->
00:44:50.340Right?
00:44:50.420 -->
00:44:53.300That protector is like I'm gonna reject you before you reject me.
00:44:53.700 -->
00:44:54.180Mm-hmm.
00:44:54.180 -->
00:45:00.340So on one end, it's like I don't need anyone, and then on the emeshment, it's like I can't function without you, right?
00:45:00.340 -->
00:45:05.700So the target is interdependence, it's secure, it's balanced, and both people are as equals.
00:45:05.700 -->
00:45:08.820Like one plus one is three, not one plus one is one.
00:45:09.860 -->
00:45:10.260Right.
00:45:10.740 -->
00:45:11.220Totally.
00:45:11.700 -->
00:45:12.500Yeah, yeah.
00:45:12.500 -->
00:45:13.619All right, let's see.
00:45:13.619 -->
00:45:23.380IFS would say, when you can lead from self, you have curiosity, it's calm, it's compassionate, it's clarity.
00:45:23.380 -->
00:45:28.980Instead of from protector, instead of the protector part, your relationship changes.
00:45:28.980 -->
00:45:31.140You stop managing and you start relating.
00:45:31.140 -->
00:45:32.099That's good.
00:45:32.099 -->
00:45:34.660It's not like this.
00:45:34.660 -->
00:45:38.660I just think of it like over being over there too much.
00:45:39.460 -->
00:45:44.180I just want to like that's what my brain the term managing is good because people understand what that is.
00:45:44.180 -->
00:45:49.940First of all, most people have been managed, and most people have tried to manage others.
00:45:49.940 -->
00:46:01.140You know, we're not just talking about the work environment, we're talking about in the everyday thing called living, you know, we're all trying to sort of do something, right?
00:46:01.140 -->
00:46:10.260And if you find yourself trying to manage the other or being managed in a relationship, that is a red flag.
00:46:10.579 -->
00:46:15.380Yeah, as you were starting to say that, I'm thinking of the difference between leadership and micromanagement, right?
00:46:15.380 -->
00:46:23.940I think that's what you're pointing to here is you know, leaders create other leaders, they they cause leadership around them because they're self-leading, right?
00:46:23.940 -->
00:46:30.099And when you're either overdoing, you know, like picking up all the pieces, or you're overmanaging, right?
00:46:30.099 -->
00:46:32.579Like they they need me to to be okay.
00:46:32.579 -->
00:46:36.900Like they're they're they're gonna f it up, you know, there's gonna be something to disappoint me, right?
00:46:36.900 -->
00:46:38.579That's not leadership.
00:46:38.579 -->
00:46:40.820No, that's managing.
00:46:40.820 -->
00:46:42.260Managing, yeah.
00:46:42.420 -->
00:46:47.300So that includes at home people picking up other people's shit, cooking all their meals.
00:46:47.300 -->
00:46:48.980I could go on and on and on.
00:46:49.300 -->
00:46:54.099All right, so let's say, like, okay, so now you we've painted a picture for unhealthy for quite a while.
00:46:54.099 -->
00:46:54.900Healthy.
00:46:54.900 -->
00:47:03.780I think people know the the imbalance of people pleasing, overgiving, you know, bashment, if you will, right?
00:47:03.780 -->
00:47:05.059So, how do we practice this?
00:47:05.059 -->
00:47:09.220If you start, you know, and this is I'm gonna be listening to these, taking notes, by the way.
00:47:09.220 -->
00:47:14.019So what is where this where's the growth for coming out of codependency?
00:47:14.019 -->
00:47:16.180What are some of the the ways that we can do that?
00:47:16.180 -->
00:47:20.500One is I would say that clinging, notice the grip, right?
00:47:20.500 -->
00:47:28.740Start paying attention to either the physical or the emotional signs of clinging, it's the tightness or the urgency, the I need to fix this, you know.
00:47:28.740 -->
00:47:31.059Like I can it's the energy.
00:47:31.300 -->
00:47:33.300There's an energy there, right?
00:47:33.300 -->
00:47:41.940And you can feel that energy definitely in the room between the two humans that are having the experience.
00:47:41.940 -->
00:47:53.619But you ideally, what we would like to see happen is you start to feel it in your own body first before it gets projected towards the other individual and it becomes you know a shared energy field or whatever.
00:47:53.619 -->
00:47:59.940Like, what's going on in your own body where you feel like you even want to do whatever the thing is?
00:47:59.940 -->
00:48:05.940I have some questions I'll throw into the mix at the end here, just trying to give people something to consider and they can write it down.
00:48:05.940 -->
00:48:12.260But like feel it in your own body energetically before you start going after that need.
00:48:13.300 -->
00:48:14.019Yeah, that clean.
00:48:14.019 -->
00:48:16.900It's interesting as you started to say that I was getting something.
00:48:16.900 -->
00:48:18.500Let me see if I it'll come back.
00:48:18.500 -->
00:48:25.140It was like the anxiousness I feel in my body when someone isn't okay.
00:48:25.140 -->
00:48:35.380Like I feel irritated, you know, because there's a difference between feeling like I've been practicing last year in the communication courses.
00:48:35.380 -->
00:48:43.140A lot of it was practicing empathy, like being over with the other person and being there, but not needing to get them out of it.
00:48:43.140 -->
00:48:46.820Being like, wow, that's a really tough situation, you know.
00:48:46.820 -->
00:48:58.019And I would say leading or causing self-leadership in that person is helping them to see how powerful they are, or to just reflect, like, wow, I'm I'm really hearing what you're going through.
00:48:58.019 -->
00:49:05.780And you don't even have to fix, just be like, so I totally get your world right now, or let me share, you know, let me speak to you.
00:49:05.780 -->
00:49:08.820Like, I'm getting the experience that you're having right now.
00:49:08.820 -->
00:49:12.820And I think great coaching is I've seen it, it's so sweet.
00:49:12.820 -->
00:49:14.980It's just like it's just like this mirror.
00:49:14.980 -->
00:49:17.380It's like, oh, and this is this is what you just told me.
00:49:17.380 -->
00:49:18.420Does that look true?
00:49:18.420 -->
00:49:33.220And it's amazing what empowered leading like that when that person sees it and it's sort of like they just needed to get it out of their head, and then it's it's out there in your mitt, and they go, Oh, like like a they're like, Oh, that's totally manageable.
00:49:33.220 -->
00:49:38.260That's you know, like they're separate from it, like they're not like enmeshed in it.
00:49:38.500 -->
00:49:44.260So rather than here's exactly what you're gonna do, follow these next are do this next.
00:49:44.260 -->
00:49:45.220This is what you're right.
00:49:45.619 -->
00:49:46.420Here's a recipe.
00:49:46.420 -->
00:49:49.940Here's a recipe for less pain, less problems, less issues.
00:49:49.940 -->
00:49:51.539Let me problem solve that for you, right?
00:49:51.539 -->
00:49:52.420Here's what you need to do.
00:49:52.500 -->
00:49:57.940Yeah, advice or this is what you should have done, which isn't even worse because then it's like a layering of judgment.
00:49:57.940 -->
00:50:01.140You should have done XYZ, and then that shit wouldn't have happened, right?
00:50:01.140 -->
00:50:08.820So you hear a lot of people speak to each other in those ways when someone comes with a pain point, right?
00:50:08.820 -->
00:50:13.940Well, why did you do it like that, or why didn't you do it like that, or this is what you should do?
00:50:13.940 -->
00:50:15.940Go back there, do this thing, right?
00:50:15.940 -->
00:50:19.220Like, stop yourself from doing that.
00:50:19.220 -->
00:50:24.420And if you feel it in your body that you want to have that response because it's programmed in you, right?
00:50:24.420 -->
00:50:35.220We're just asking for a pause and a deep breath and a reconsideration of maybe doing it differently this this time and moving forward to you know.
00:50:36.099 -->
00:50:37.460I was gonna say, hold your tongue.
00:50:37.460 -->
00:50:42.340One of the things you were, it's interesting that you thought of like reflect, you know, like, well, you should have done this.
00:50:42.340 -->
00:50:58.099And I was like, Wow, I think I even try to help people avoid bad situations, like totally that doing that might suck for you, you know, or like like helping them think things through that they may go, they need to go experience it, like you know.
00:50:58.340 -->
00:51:02.420I have a saying I use a lot, and I say it with humor, but also love and compassion.
00:51:02.660 -->
00:51:04.260It's like okay, how's that working for you?
00:51:04.420 -->
00:51:05.220How's that gonna go?
00:51:05.700 -->
00:51:07.460Let me let me know how that works out.
00:51:07.460 -->
00:51:11.700Totally, totally can't wait to hear the story.
00:51:11.860 -->
00:51:12.579Yeah, all right.
00:51:12.579 -->
00:51:14.740So if we look at it, you know, how to grow through this.
00:51:14.740 -->
00:51:18.980So internal family systems would say, like naming the part, right?
00:51:18.980 -->
00:51:24.660Like we talked about, you've got this exile or abandoned you, and you've got this overprotective of you, right?
00:51:24.660 -->
00:51:31.619So when you catch yourself in that pattern, the the behaviors, the sharing, the like, what's going on over there?
00:51:32.019 -->
00:51:33.940Managing, let's call it the managing people.
00:51:34.420 -->
00:51:35.059Over functioning.
00:51:35.059 -->
00:51:41.059It could just be like like me, it was just like, oh, making breakfast every morning for someone, you know, like overfunctioning.
00:51:41.059 -->
00:51:43.140So what part of you is running?
00:51:43.140 -->
00:51:44.820Like what part of you is running this?
00:51:44.820 -->
00:51:46.180Like, where is this coming from?
00:51:46.180 -->
00:51:46.820Right?
00:51:46.820 -->
00:51:50.660And and what is it afraid will happen if you stop?
00:51:50.660 -->
00:51:56.900Like if I stopped doing this person's laundry or taking them to the whatever, or you know, whatever.
00:51:56.900 -->
00:52:07.059You know, you don't have to do whole IFS family therapy and stuff like that, just noticing, like, wow, like, do I need to be doing this behavior?
00:52:07.539 -->
00:52:15.300So also, I'll just point out from what I talked about earlier coming back from this trip and having this big recalibration of so many things.
00:52:15.300 -->
00:52:22.900But in this area, it can be challenging for people, especially if they live in partnership in family or in a shared house or whatever.
00:52:22.900 -->
00:52:31.140You might want to notify people that are about to see this shift and change that there's a shift and change.
00:52:31.220 -->
00:52:31.539Yeah.
00:52:31.860 -->
00:52:36.579Because what will happen is they will bump up against it inevitably, right?
00:52:36.579 -->
00:52:38.660And they won't have an understanding.
00:52:38.660 -->
00:52:46.500They will then maybe experience rejection or anger, or they'll start to have their own thing, by the way, that has again nothing to do with you.
00:52:46.500 -->
00:52:57.860But it's good for you to maybe broach in a conversation, hey, I am learning some things about myself and I'm going to be doing some things differently moving forward.
00:52:57.860 -->
00:52:58.980Again, it's about me.
00:52:58.980 -->
00:53:08.340It's about what I'm going to be experiencing and doing, what my personal growth is, without judgment or pointing fingers or, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
00:53:08.340 -->
00:53:10.260Dissolve the drama out of it.
00:53:10.260 -->
00:53:19.860There doesn't need to be a lot of drama, but just out of that compassionate place, that loving-kindness place of just saying, Hey, I'm I'm going to be doing some things differently.
00:53:19.860 -->
00:53:21.140Heads up.
00:53:21.460 -->
00:53:22.019I called it.
00:53:22.420 -->
00:53:25.940Breakfast will not be on the table every morning at eight o'clock or whatever you said.
00:53:25.940 -->
00:53:27.220Your laundry will not be done.
00:53:27.220 -->
00:53:27.780Whatever.
00:53:27.780 -->
00:53:34.420As a coworker, I will not be coming to your, you know, answering all the emails you're not answering.
00:53:34.420 -->
00:53:36.260I had that recently in a work project.
00:53:36.260 -->
00:53:39.220I was like, bro, you're not answering the emails.
00:53:39.220 -->
00:53:41.140I'm a CC owner.
00:53:41.140 -->
00:53:44.260So this is not my responsibility to answer to that.
00:53:44.260 -->
00:53:48.579And I instinctively wanted to like jump in and answer, right?
00:53:48.579 -->
00:53:51.300And I was like, Hold up now.
00:53:51.300 -->
00:53:55.300So whatever the dynamic is, not doing for another.
00:53:55.460 -->
00:53:55.700Yeah.
00:53:56.099 -->
00:54:03.380If you're going to stop the doing, and we suggest in many instances you do, you should have a conversation too.
00:54:03.619 -->
00:54:05.140I call it creating new agreements.
00:54:05.140 -->
00:54:09.140So there's an operating system or a way that they're used to you operating.
00:54:09.140 -->
00:54:19.220You guys have an agreement, like I take out this, you do that, I pay the bills, you cook whatever these agreements are, and then you just suddenly, you know, like dinner's not there.
00:54:19.940 -->
00:54:20.260Yeah.
00:54:20.260 -->
00:54:20.740Right.
00:54:21.220 -->
00:54:21.940Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:21.940 -->
00:54:26.180Oh, and I'm noticing where I'm not creating new agreements with my workout partner right now.
00:54:26.180 -->
00:54:26.980This is interesting.
00:54:26.980 -->
00:54:30.660So I'm just doing different behavior, but I'm not communicating it well.
00:54:30.660 -->
00:54:34.579So yeah, anyway, so so creating new agreements, right?
00:54:34.579 -->
00:54:35.700You know, totally.
00:54:35.780 -->
00:54:36.340Yeah, totally.
00:54:36.340 -->
00:54:56.740And you know what's so beautiful about that from my experience, what I've witnessed and what I encourage people to also experience is, you know, genuinely, usually that person, if you have relationship capacity and depth to it, will be not only super receptive, but will be looking at making their own new agreements.
00:54:56.740 -->
00:55:03.700Like you open up the conversation and the space to possibility for them also to do things differently.
00:55:03.700 -->
00:55:09.780And there's a sense of relief and also just understanding and wisdom and comparison.
00:55:09.780 -->
00:55:12.660There's like there's a lot of beautiful stuff that can come out of these.
00:55:12.660 -->
00:55:14.660Don't expect it to be conflict.
00:55:14.660 -->
00:55:21.140If you go in with like, listen, I'm not doing the laundry and like that's not what we're talking about, right?
00:55:21.380 -->
00:55:29.940I mean, you could even say, I mean, you don't have to say this, but as you were saying that, it was like, like, I've been preparing your food thinking that you couldn't even do it, or something like that.
00:55:29.940 -->
00:55:31.220You know, like you could just come clean.
00:55:31.619 -->
00:55:34.099But you wanted to eat this way, yeah, yeah.
00:55:34.340 -->
00:55:38.820Or or I or it could sound like like I've been doing your laundry because I thought you would leave me.
00:55:38.820 -->
00:55:40.420Or some, you know, whatever.
00:55:40.420 -->
00:55:45.780Like make it sound absurd or make it like or I thought you'd stink, but guess what, you still might.
00:55:45.780 -->
00:55:51.539So all right, how about shifting your language?
00:55:51.539 -->
00:55:58.099So you know, it can sound like before unhealthy is like I'm helping, I'm helping, I'm helping, right?
00:55:58.099 -->
00:55:59.380To I'm offering.
00:55:59.380 -->
00:56:06.660From I need them to to I prefer, but I'm okay if they don't, right?
00:56:06.660 -->
00:56:10.099I prefer that they did their own lawn, you know, whatever.
00:56:10.099 -->
00:56:17.700Like so the the language, the story you're telling yourself can shift how you're going about it and your experience of it too.
00:56:17.700 -->
00:56:24.820Like, because you know, that resentment comes from you know, this like woe is me, like I'm doing so much or I'm overdoing it.
00:56:24.820 -->
00:56:29.940It's like, well, shift the perspective, like oh, you know, I I I'm offering to do this for them.
00:56:29.940 -->
00:56:30.740And is that true?
00:56:30.740 -->
00:56:33.300Or is it coming from that need to not be left?
00:56:34.099 -->
00:56:34.420Right.
00:56:34.660 -->
00:56:37.860So and you talked about this practicing the pause.
00:56:37.860 -->
00:56:46.740So when someone you love is struggling or not, you know, not doing okay, notice the urge to jump in.
00:56:46.740 -->
00:56:49.300You know, ask yourself, is this mine to fix?
00:56:49.300 -->
00:56:50.500Is this mine to carry?
00:56:50.500 -->
00:56:52.099Like, like what the hell?
00:56:52.099 -->
00:56:53.140Like, what you know?
00:56:53.380 -->
00:56:54.980I'm gonna give them some actual questions.
00:56:54.980 -->
00:56:56.340I want people to write this shit down.
00:56:56.340 -->
00:56:59.140Yes, because it is hard to remember when you're in the moment.
00:56:59.140 -->
00:57:05.940You know, it's not hard to remember to pause, but it's like, well, you know, you you energetically in your body are putting it.
00:57:05.940 -->
00:57:10.420You just sit there with nothing, you're already feeling angst or fear or whatever.
00:57:10.420 -->
00:57:16.579Your nervous system is so attached to this thing that we're talking about, this kind of reaction way of operating.
00:57:16.579 -->
00:57:18.019It's an operating system, right?
00:57:18.019 -->
00:57:21.539And your nervous system is just so deeply integrated there.
00:57:21.539 -->
00:57:24.180So create some space.
00:57:24.180 -->
00:57:29.619Take a pause before you do some things, ask yourself some questions.
00:57:29.619 -->
00:57:32.980So, whenever we're ready, I'll kind of go through them and they're a little bit fun.
00:57:33.300 -->
00:57:33.700Please.
00:57:33.700 -->
00:57:36.260Well, the only other one, maybe we'll end on those.
00:57:36.260 -->
00:57:41.619The only other one is I mean, for gosh sake, just let people have their experience.
00:57:41.619 -->
00:57:47.860You know, let people this this is like like I need this tattooed on the inside of my my eyelids for a while.
00:57:47.860 -->
00:57:52.660Is just letting people write that shit down, girl.
00:57:52.900 -->
00:57:53.940What am I doing?
00:57:53.940 -->
00:57:54.579Oh, yeah.
00:57:55.140 -->
00:57:56.980Tattooed on your forearm, right?
00:57:56.980 -->
00:58:01.619So let people yeah, let people do what they're gonna do and have what they're gonna have.
00:58:01.619 -->
00:58:02.820That is like the ultimate.
00:58:02.820 -->
00:58:10.340No rescuing, no managing, trusting that adults are capable, even when it's uncomfortable to watch or listen.
00:58:11.140 -->
00:58:13.140Tell kids, yeah, yeah.
00:58:13.140 -->
00:58:15.059Humans are capable.
00:58:16.900 -->
00:58:24.420All right, so what are some of these questions when you just see that person in your instant, you know, like your default is something's wrong with them.
00:58:24.420 -->
00:58:27.059I need to like jump into action or something.
00:58:27.220 -->
00:58:28.099So yeah.
00:58:28.099 -->
00:58:33.220So these are questions I ask myself on a regular basis.
00:58:33.220 -->
00:58:35.300Practice, you're practicing.
00:58:35.300 -->
00:58:36.340Yeah, totally, totally.
00:58:36.340 -->
00:58:48.019And they're questions to ask yourself before you before you call, text, advise, or just flat out run to rescue or step in.
00:58:48.019 -->
00:58:50.500Yeah, yeah, just you know, that's like action.
00:58:50.500 -->
00:59:03.220But sometimes it's also speaking from experience as a parent, wife, grandparent, whatever, calling or texting, because I'm thinking about them before they're even aware they have.
00:59:03.220 -->
00:59:04.980You've got like three steps ahead, yeah.
00:59:04.980 -->
00:59:08.900I totally projected out into five years from now.
00:59:09.220 -->
00:59:11.619That's that's what I was talking about.
00:59:11.619 -->
00:59:20.420Like, not just like, oh, you should have done this, but like you're you're you know this is coming and this you've effed this up before, or there's a there's a trap you're about to fall into.
00:59:20.820 -->
00:59:21.300Exactly.
00:59:21.300 -->
00:59:22.579Hawabunga.
00:59:22.579 -->
00:59:24.579Okay, so ask yourself these questions.
00:59:24.579 -->
00:59:37.539Number one, am I compelled to do this out of my own fears, my own anxiety, or my own need to feel valued?
00:59:37.539 -->
00:59:41.780So is this coming from inside of me?
00:59:41.780 -->
00:59:48.099And am I compelled to do it because of my own fear or anxiety or need to be feeling valuable?
00:59:48.420 -->
00:59:49.460Yeah, we're all filled with upset.
00:59:49.619 -->
00:59:51.619But then that's about you, person, okay?
00:59:51.940 -->
00:59:55.380Yeah, you're the one over here feeling the upset, so just recognize it, okay?
00:59:55.460 -->
00:59:59.460Yeah, and then this other one is super important too.
00:59:59.460 -->
01:00:09.140Are they actually asking for my help, support, advice, whatever, fill in the gap, and wait for it?
01:00:09.140 -->
01:00:11.940Are they ready to receive it?
01:00:12.420 -->
01:00:13.059Yeah, yeah.
01:00:13.380 -->
01:00:22.340Because a yes, we're coaches, so we do experience this a lot, but even with friends and family members, a lot of times they might be asking.
01:00:22.340 -->
01:00:25.140I do get asked, you do get asked, right?
01:00:25.140 -->
01:00:28.500But then we show up and they're not ready.
01:00:28.500 -->
01:00:30.900They thought they needed help.
01:00:30.900 -->
01:00:38.260They blah blah blah, and you know, and then then you show up to be of service in some capacity, and they're actually, no, it's not time.
01:00:38.579 -->
01:00:51.380You know, this reminds me, um, so I'm I'm playing some scenarios with a loved one of mine, and I'll I'll I've even gotten to the point, you know, you talk about that resentment, like, oh, they never do what I tell them.
01:00:51.380 -->
01:00:52.820Like, why should I even help them?
01:00:52.820 -->
01:00:55.220Yeah, like they're not here for right.
01:00:55.220 -->
01:01:00.340One of the questions on my questionnaire with my clients is well, it's like a two-part.
01:01:00.340 -->
01:01:05.140It's on a scale of one to ten, how important is this you for you that you change this, right?
01:01:05.140 -->
01:01:07.300Like, like, are you really committed to it?
01:01:07.300 -->
01:01:09.700Like, and are you willing to do the work to get there?
01:01:09.700 -->
01:01:10.099Right.
01:01:10.099 -->
01:01:15.220So those two questions really show is this something that is bothering you enough, right?
01:01:15.220 -->
01:01:18.820Because we can be in mild amount of pain and never do anything about it, right?
01:01:18.820 -->
01:01:23.619Or we just want to complain and just like sit in the woe is me for a while.
01:01:23.619 -->
01:01:27.300But is this at a level that you want to do something?
01:01:27.300 -->
01:01:29.619You know, like it's painful enough that you're gonna do something about it.
01:01:29.619 -->
01:01:30.900Number two, are you willing to do it?
01:01:30.900 -->
01:01:31.940Are you willing to change?
01:01:31.940 -->
01:01:42.820So, um, and I don't know how you do that necessarily, like you know, interview my loved one, like this of one or ten for you, you know, before before we spend any more time on this.
01:01:42.980 -->
01:01:57.300How can we think you'll get from experience if you have your eyes open, enough feedback, whether it's verbal and obvious and direct or completely passive and indirect, as to what's really going on over there?
01:01:57.700 -->
01:01:58.019Right?
01:01:58.180 -->
01:02:01.940Is the person just calling you every day with whatever the crisis of the moment is?
01:02:01.940 -->
01:02:06.900But they really freaking live for these things and it is a part of their identity.
01:02:06.900 -->
01:02:15.619Just see it for what it is without a lot of judgment, but that's really just their choice, and they need to get on doing that thing, right?
01:02:15.619 -->
01:02:17.140Okay, I have a couple more questions.
01:02:17.140 -->
01:02:17.860You ready?
01:02:17.860 -->
01:02:18.660Do it.
01:02:18.660 -->
01:02:22.740So you have asked these questions.
01:02:22.740 -->
01:02:28.340Ideally, you've taken a pause and you've taken a breath and are trying to manage the energy in your own body.
01:02:28.340 -->
01:02:35.619Never mind managing the other person's energy or them at all, and just pose these simple questions that I just put out there.
01:02:35.619 -->
01:02:45.380But then additionally, ask yourself this question: can I love and honor myself now by holding my own boundaries and just focusing on my own self-care?
01:02:45.380 -->
01:02:56.180So if I'm not going to go rescue, text, call, or be somehow entangled in this dynamic, can I instead redirect that energy back to self?
01:02:56.180 -->
01:03:00.500Because there's something going on in you that does have a need that needs to be filled.
01:03:01.300 -->
01:03:01.539Right.
01:03:01.780 -->
01:03:25.300And wherever that anxiety, fear, or need to feel valued is coming from deserves your attention and deserves your love and compassion self-directed, self-directed, rather than, oh, let me just get busy finding somebody else who needs me or some other way for me to like get rid of this feeling that's really uncomfortable.
01:03:25.539 -->
01:03:40.660Well, you know, it reminds as you were saying that, what I was thinking about is like the anxiousness, the urge to solve this, step in or rescue or whatever, is hey, this is just a part of me that's feeling I won't be left.
01:03:40.660 -->
01:03:41.940I'll be abandoned, right?
01:03:41.940 -->
01:03:54.500And it that you know, these things are so immediate, like you know, like there's this conversation going on, so it's not always present, but just noticing that, like they talked earlier about internal family systems, just naming it.
01:03:54.500 -->
01:04:01.780It's like, oh, that's the protector, or like, oh, the anxious one is if I don't solve this person's problems, they'll abandon me.
01:04:01.780 -->
01:04:03.860And it's like, oh, that's all that is.
01:04:03.860 -->
01:04:05.539Oh, that's what that is.
01:04:05.780 -->
01:04:06.420Oh, okay.
01:04:06.500 -->
01:04:34.420You know, and in internal family systems, there's beautiful work around like comforting that side of you, and you know, like, like you said, self-care, like, oh, like, yeah, I see where that reminds you of being left, or that reminds you of being ignored or abandoned or treated like this, you know, like I can remember in a relationship I was in and the way that I was being treated, the way that we were interacting, it's like, wow, this really reminds me of how my mom treats me, you know, and I was like, that's so weird, right?
01:04:34.420 -->
01:04:40.980So just noticing, like, oh, that's just recalling a time when you felt that way from childhood.
01:04:40.980 -->
01:04:42.260Yeah, yeah.
01:04:42.500 -->
01:04:54.900And if it tends to bucket around food or finances or security or whatever, like you'll find probably, if you're paying attention, some recurring themes.
01:04:54.900 -->
01:05:02.660That probably is really something going on within you in that recurring theme, right?
01:05:02.660 -->
01:05:07.780Maybe I'm always cooking for others because I'm not actually feeding myself very well.
01:05:07.780 -->
01:05:19.780Maybe I'm always taking care of other people's finances and rescuing around money because I have my own challenges with money and being neither financially responsible or feeling financially secure, whatever.
01:05:19.780 -->
01:05:28.420Like there tends to be some stuff when we see it in other people that really is just needs of our own that are not being met.
01:05:28.420 -->
01:05:34.579So it's like that awareness piece, and then having a deeper conversation with yourself or with somebody who can help you unpack that.
01:05:34.579 -->
01:05:36.340Super freaking helpful.
01:05:36.340 -->
01:05:39.300Super like I'm always triggered by X.
01:05:39.300 -->
01:05:40.099Really?
01:05:40.099 -->
01:05:42.019Let's talk about that.
01:05:44.500 -->
01:05:44.820Right.
01:05:44.980 -->
01:05:48.500Because it has nothing to do with that person over there.
01:05:48.500 -->
01:05:55.300You're being triggered because there's something going on in you and it deserves attention and love and compassion.
01:05:55.300 -->
01:05:57.059And you know, unpack that shit.
01:05:57.059 -->
01:05:58.260Right?
01:05:58.260 -->
01:05:59.700Okay, I got one more.
01:05:59.700 -->
01:06:05.940Yeah, can I whoo can I love and honor them?
01:06:05.940 -->
01:06:14.660So the other, by giving them the space and the time they need to create their own path forward.
01:06:14.660 -->
01:06:17.460Can I love and honor them?
01:06:17.460 -->
01:06:19.140So you do have to be.
01:06:19.140 -->
01:06:26.980Make peace with that because we love these people and we need to express that in a just in a different way now.
01:06:26.980 -->
01:06:33.300So by loving and honoring them, giving them the time and the space they need to just figure their shit out.
01:06:33.619 -->
01:06:34.019Yeah.
01:06:34.260 -->
01:06:37.300You know, people are capable, people are resilient.
01:06:37.300 -->
01:06:41.619We need to trust that people can manage without us.
01:06:41.619 -->
01:06:42.660They can.
01:06:42.660 -->
01:06:44.340They can.
01:06:44.340 -->
01:06:46.260And especially if they got raised by me.
01:06:46.260 -->
01:06:49.460Hey, these people are capable.
01:06:49.460 -->
01:06:52.019Like I'm confident that they're capable.
01:06:52.019 -->
01:06:53.380So what am I doing?
01:06:53.860 -->
01:06:54.099Yeah.
01:06:54.099 -->
01:07:00.660And and more protecting, providing, you know, fixing or whatever makes them not more capable.
01:07:00.660 -->
01:07:03.059It actually has the reverse effect.
01:07:03.380 -->
01:07:20.980And it also is a little bit, well, not a little bit, it's unfair that we are not giving them the gift of trusting themselves, of really learning about who they are in the world, about exploring their own gifts, about all of that.
01:07:20.980 -->
01:07:24.340Like, come on, don't rob them and build your life.
01:07:24.980 -->
01:07:25.380Yeah.
01:07:25.380 -->
01:07:26.099Yeah.
01:07:26.340 -->
01:07:26.579Yeah.
01:07:26.579 -->
01:07:26.900Yeah.
01:07:26.900 -->
01:07:33.059They're out there like a little child, discovering and playing and exploring and getting bumped-up knees and you know, falling down.
01:07:33.059 -->
01:07:34.980It's like that's what we all do.
01:07:35.220 -->
01:07:35.539Yeah.
01:07:35.860 -->
01:07:36.820As adults too.
01:07:36.820 -->
01:07:38.660We bang up against stuff.
01:07:38.660 -->
01:07:42.099And if and if they're not getting it, it just needs to get a little louder, you know.
01:07:42.099 -->
01:07:43.539Maybe it needs to get a little more painful.
01:07:43.539 -->
01:07:44.579But that's their journey.
01:07:44.660 -->
01:07:57.140So no matter how old they are, by the way, I was referencing kids or whatever, but it I'm also talking about partners and friends and grown-ass adults at work, you know, and people in my community or whatever, you know.
01:07:57.140 -->
01:08:04.420Um, I'm just laughing because there was a run this weekend that I helped to host and facilitate.
01:08:04.420 -->
01:08:07.619And I saw some really interesting running behaviors out there.
01:08:07.619 -->
01:08:10.980And I was not there in a coaching capacity.
01:08:10.980 -->
01:08:13.940These people were not asking me for coaching advice.
01:08:13.940 -->
01:08:18.739Okay, so who am I to be like, what in the tomfoolery is that?
01:08:18.739 -->
01:08:20.099Okay.
01:08:20.099 -->
01:08:30.180Even though I was observing some really fascinating things going on, I was like, okay, you do you.
01:08:30.500 -->
01:08:30.899Yeah.
01:08:31.300 -->
01:08:32.420That's cool.
01:08:32.579 -->
01:08:32.899Yeah.
01:08:33.059 -->
01:08:43.460Now, if you want to come to me and you again, like I post those questions, are asking for and ready for some tips or advice or whatever, I'm all about it.
01:08:43.460 -->
01:08:46.340I freaking love to play that role, right?
01:08:46.340 -->
01:08:49.140Like I'm that, but not unsolicited.
01:08:49.699 -->
01:08:50.659Not unsolicited.
01:08:50.659 -->
01:08:51.060Yeah.
01:08:51.060 -->
01:08:56.819And robbing, like you said, I love like honoring and loving them enough that they can figure this out.
01:08:56.819 -->
01:08:59.460Like exactly trusting and believing in them.
01:08:59.460 -->
01:09:11.140Like, and as a leader of other leaders in your company, it's like, you know, maybe they need a little training, maybe they need to come talk to you about something, maybe they need some resources, maybe they do need support or whatever.
01:09:11.220 -->
01:09:14.180But that's the question that we ask then, right?
01:09:14.180 -->
01:09:16.980To in we are the leader to be asking that.
01:09:16.980 -->
01:09:18.659What are the resources you need?
01:09:18.659 -->
01:09:21.220Please tell me what you need to be successful.
01:09:21.220 -->
01:09:24.100I will of course deliver that.
01:09:24.739 -->
01:09:25.300Help facilitate.
01:09:25.300 -->
01:09:25.699Yeah.
01:09:25.699 -->
01:09:29.380Do you need some things taken off your plate that you know give that to other people?
01:09:29.380 -->
01:09:31.779Do you need some resources in terms of tools?
01:09:31.779 -->
01:09:34.420You know, what could help you succeed at this?
01:09:34.420 -->
01:09:39.060Like, that's what I think leaders are there to, you know, support their leaders in just launching.
01:09:39.060 -->
01:09:40.819Like, yeah, get after it.
01:09:40.819 -->
01:09:44.260But not like, oh, I see you haven't been managing your time very well.
01:09:44.260 -->
01:09:51.380So I'm gonna like plan your day for you now, and I'm gonna tell you exactly what you need to be doing for the next five days, and that's it.
01:09:52.819 -->
01:09:54.260You don't know how to prioritize.
01:09:54.260 -->
01:09:55.460Let me do it for you.
01:09:56.739 -->
01:09:58.819I'm getting so much out of this.
01:09:58.819 -->
01:10:01.060This is just like, wow, wow, wow.
01:10:01.460 -->
01:10:09.220Humaning, especially on a relationship level, like this is deep relationship stuff, is so complex.
01:10:09.859 -->
01:10:37.460And I I hope if you've been listening all the way through to this, that you've seen or heard something that is like when you sort of unlock, dude, and unlock some like if you're not looking at your relationships and yourself and your experience in your relationships and the behaviors that you have or the triggers that you've seen show up over and over again, or how you're over-delivering or over-giving or over-protecting or something.
01:10:37.460 -->
01:10:42.739We haven't done our job where you're just like not real, because we're like you said, we're all doing some of it.
01:10:42.739 -->
01:10:49.859And if you've seen a lot of it, like I've been getting so much out of this because I see where it's showing up in so many areas of my life.
01:10:49.859 -->
01:10:55.859You are a wonderful model, my dear, of you coming back from your trip and just being like, Oh, there's a new sheriff in town.
01:10:55.859 -->
01:10:59.859This is things, things ain't gonna be the same, y'all, you know.
01:10:59.859 -->
01:11:01.699Yeah, and stepping up with that.
01:11:01.699 -->
01:11:06.980I'm not in an intimate relationship right now, so I don't have that, you know, like, hey, honey, we ask it.
01:11:06.980 -->
01:11:11.779But going forward, I can see a lot of new ways of being.
01:11:11.779 -->
01:11:13.380So thank you for this topic.
01:11:13.380 -->
01:11:15.380I hope you guys have gotten something out of this.
01:11:15.380 -->
01:11:19.539Just hearing the roots of it was very helpful for me.
01:11:19.539 -->
01:11:26.180You know, I was like, I can see the behavior, but that just feels like I said, like I feel justified in trying to help somebody out of suffering.
01:11:26.180 -->
01:11:31.940I feel justified in being a giver and wanting to, you know, show my loved one that I care about them.
01:11:31.940 -->
01:11:43.940But there's also some dysfunction behind quite a bit of it that is exhausting and and it's exhausting, exhausting, depleting, it's it's degrading me.
01:11:43.940 -->
01:11:46.579Like, like your needs are more important than my needs.
01:11:46.579 -->
01:11:48.980My self-worth is tied to your well-being.
01:11:49.140 -->
01:11:59.380What the like okay, there's a lot of redirected all of that energy into our own personal development and care.
01:11:59.380 -->
01:12:01.859Yeah, oh my god.
01:12:01.859 -->
01:12:09.060Okay, you want to do some personal transformation, whether it's your physical body or emotional body or spiritual body.
01:12:09.060 -->
01:12:12.819That's a lot of energy available to you now.
01:12:13.140 -->
01:12:13.619Boom.
01:12:13.619 -->
01:12:15.300So good, so good.
01:12:15.699 -->
01:12:16.340So good.
01:12:16.739 -->
01:12:20.819Well, I think you have a one takeaway or one.
01:12:20.819 -->
01:12:22.260Maybe your questions were really good.
01:12:22.260 -->
01:12:24.420Was there one question or one one thought?
01:12:24.420 -->
01:12:33.300I think my takeaway is I love the pause, but I think it's just what was that one line that we had?
01:12:33.300 -->
01:12:37.699It's like they're okay, like letting people do what they're gonna do and have what they're gonna have.
01:12:37.699 -->
01:12:38.819Yep.
01:12:38.819 -->
01:12:42.579That's and the letting them isn't even like they need fucking permission.
01:12:42.579 -->
01:12:52.260Like they're like they're totally beautiful souls, like it's not even letting them, it's just realizing that they're gonna have what they're gonna have and they're gonna do what they're gonna do.
01:12:52.420 -->
01:12:57.619Like, okay, so that's you can have connection without the clinging, right?
01:12:57.619 -->
01:13:00.100So the clinging is the managing again.
01:13:00.100 -->
01:13:04.020Like if you feel like you're managing your clinging, that's not connection.
01:13:05.220 -->
01:13:06.900Yeah, that boundaryless.
01:13:06.900 -->
01:13:17.220Like, I think about two cells, you know, and it's like they have to open up, and it's like, no, you can stay your own unique selves and you can still be in relationship and connected.
01:13:17.220 -->
01:13:18.260So thank you.
01:13:18.260 -->
01:13:19.380Thank you for this topic.
01:13:19.380 -->
01:13:22.260This was beautiful helping this work over here.
01:13:22.260 -->
01:13:24.100It's so good.
01:13:24.100 -->
01:13:26.579Yeah, this is yeah, this is.
01:13:26.579 -->
01:13:31.539I hope some you guys have been either taking some notes or just mental notes, like, okay, what am I gonna do differently?
01:13:31.779 -->
01:13:41.859So, how do we want to leave our beautiful humans just with a gentle reminder of how your life looks is not that damn important, but how it feels is.
01:13:42.340 -->
01:13:45.380And every day is your opportunity to find your awesome.
01:13:45.619 -->
01:13:47.140Okay, we'll see you next week.
01:13:47.140 -->
01:13:47.940Cheers.
01:13:47.940 -->
01:13:48.900Bye.
