Robert Bortins - Protecting Our Future Generations

Eric Meder: Hello everyone and welcome to another Eric Meter show. Today I'll be interviewing Robert Bortons of Classical Conversations about homeschooling in America. I really loved this discussion because we went in depth and we even talked about how AI is being used to teach kids in a K through 12 environment. If you're a parent, if you're a grandparent, or even if you're a youth, I know you'll love this episode. with Eric Meter. So one of the ways I'd like to start this off is just by talking about how I think the US education system has been really hijacked. And ⁓ you know, if you look in my generation or younger or even before that, the way that they were taught is very Marxist or, you know, woke. There's a lot of different words for it, but it's definitely been hijacked. So would you mind touching on that? Yeah, this I wrote a book about it, Woke and Weaponize that came out this year. And it was really astonishing to see how intentional this was. And ⁓ just ⁓ what we found was during the Cold War, ⁓ Russia realized or Soviet Union realized they weren't gonna beat us militarily. And so ⁓ how do you take over a country? ⁓ so they decided to target two main areas. ⁓ one was Hollywood, ⁓ but they put most of their eggs into the education baskets and ⁓ really ⁓ looked at the teachers' colleges and how they could ⁓ get those ⁓ Marxist ideologies to be adopted by the creditors. And if ⁓ every teacher in the United States had to basically adopt this ⁓ woke worldview, ⁓ and ⁓ then they would be able to import it into the classrooms and then you would be able to get the future generations to adopt this ⁓ Marxist ideology. ⁓ and ⁓ so we see that today we're almost ⁓ over You know, about fi 50% of Gen Z supports Democrat socialism and people like Mandami, ⁓ despite the fact that the ⁓ warm blanket of ⁓ redistribution has killed over a hundred million people over the last ⁓ hundred and twenty-five years. And it's ⁓ you know, a very deadly ideology, one that ⁓ basically turns you into a ward of the state. ⁓ and of course, ⁓ we see that through some of ⁓ what we have going on ⁓ now. And so yeah, it's been very deliberate and intentional. ⁓ you know, students want to get good grades, teachers want to get raises, and all that's been based on a ⁓ kind of Marxist ideology that's been ⁓ implemented in the accreditation system through ⁓ the teachers' colleges. Yeah, absolutely. And it is a it's a horrific thing. I mean, I so th for the last four and a half years I've been living on and off in in between I go to America and I also live part time in Budapest where my girlfriend is. And so This used to be communist. You go to a country that used to be communist and they immediately know how awful it is. And then you look at the people in America, they have no idea because they've never experienced it. ⁓ but what you're talking about with this of how they hijacked Hollywood in the school system, they put a lot of thought into it too, because I think one of the ways that they have been able to really manipulate people is they they have kind of weaponized some of the things that make America or our ideals so powerful. And one of those things is just empathy. And I've heard a lot of people use this term of of suicidal empathy where people ⁓ focus on the greater good over themselves, which is basically communism. So how do you think people could, you know, prevent falling for that brainwashing? It's hard, especially when they're young. But what are some of the core principles you think that are extremely important to be taught, especially when someone's young? Yeah. I mean, I think it all starts ⁓ I mean the Marxists want to separate ⁓ families from their children so that the families identify ⁓ with with other entities, entities that they can control with that's very hard to control. No 50 million moms and dads who are in their individual homes. And so, you know, some of the the principles that we need to be teaching, of course, are our liberty, our freedom. We need to be inspiring students. A lot of this toxic empathy is ⁓ you know, around these ideas of, well, you're privileged or or these different ideas ⁓ that they put into these kids' minds. And of course no one wants to be an oppress an oppressor. So ⁓ you ⁓ kind of see that with the LGBT movement where, you know, all these students have to identify. You know, if you're a white white male, the only way to be part of the ⁓ unum you know, then the people that are being oppressed is to suddenly identify something sexually different. ⁓ same thing as a white female. ⁓ we've seen that with ⁓ grooming gangs over in the UK, where they're using this DEI language on children to get them to accept being raped ⁓ by ⁓ these ⁓ immigrants ⁓ because you know they had this this privilege. And so it really is suicidal empathy. And a lot of these things, you know, CS Lewis said we need put first things first and second things will will ⁓ improve. If you put second things first, then the whole system collapses. And ⁓ you know, empathy is not in itself a bad thing, but it's not a it's not a first principle, it's not a it's not a core core value. It's something that ⁓ should ⁓ should come from other values. And you know, when you put it in this right order, it's it's okay. But when you make empathy kind of the ⁓ the normal ⁓ behavior that everyone should adopt, then it becomes su suicidal. And so ⁓ you know, love your family, love your neighbors, ⁓ you know. Self sacrifice, ⁓ you know, putting putting others first. These are all all good things. ⁓ and we and we need to put those ideas out there. ⁓ they use the term empathy and really they like to change language and have us adopt new language in order for us to to reject our old ways. And and that's what they've been doing with the young people. Yeah, that's very well said. I think that's ⁓ spot on and it you know, it is it's a shame to see how they've turned this on people. I I think that there's a lot of young people that know, you know, that that's it's it's not adding up for them. I think they're lost, but they're searching. And I've seen that firsthand, ⁓ with peers. I've had a lot of peers who are lost. Some of them have made it out. Some of them are still stuck. I also was very lost. ⁓ and I've got a a whole spor story on on how I got out of that and how I think social media plays a huge impact on that as well. So maybe we'll get to that at some point. But ⁓ Basically, how do you think a parent can kind of reach out if their kid is lost at that stage? Because there there's so many parents right now that they just don't know how to approach their kid or what to do when they're already, you know, kind of brainwashed, I guess, for the lack of a better word. Yeah. I mean, it's hard because, you know, it's it's easier to raise raise young men and w young women than to reform ⁓ when they when they get older. And so, ⁓ in many aspects it's ⁓ You know, it's a much difficult road to hoe, ⁓ once they kind of have fallen fallen into those holes. And what you gotta do is just keep t keep speaking the truth to them. The the truth does not come back empty or void. It might be harsh, it might sound mean at the time, or they might not accept it or reject you. ⁓ you obviously don't wanna be losing ⁓ that relationship, but I think continuing to to show them what the what the truth is is gonna be vitally important to to helping them ⁓ get back as well as ⁓ like you said ⁓ just making sure that you understand what their actual concern is like so many times like we're not actually going down to the core problem you know we might be answering ⁓ you know symptoms and of course if someone has a headache you want to give them ⁓ you know an advil or something to ⁓ help that go away ⁓ but usually there's a a root of the problem that that's much more deeper and it that takes takes time and skill ⁓ to ⁓ get that removed. ⁓ so and of course, ⁓ you know, as a Christian, I believe a lot of prayer is is helpful as well. Absolutely. Yeah. I think having faith is very important. ⁓ let me ⁓ let me ask you a little bit about your personal history, your history with homeschooling, what you do at classical conversations and how people listening can learn more about homeschooling as well. Yeah, so I was homeschooled through high school. I went to college and ⁓ got an industrial engineering degree and worked in corporate America for about a decade. ⁓ but when I was in high school, my mom started classical conversations to help people homeschool through high school and through a biblical worldview and with ⁓ the classical method. So, you know, reading the great books and ⁓ you know, memorizing speeches and dissecting frogs and ⁓ doing things like debate and mock trial. So things you might not be able to do in a in a homeschool without without peers. And so at Classical Conversations.com, you can put in your zip code. We'd love to connect you with one of our local leaders. We have about 2,000 communities across the United States, another 800 international. We help about 50,000 homeschool families ⁓ every single year. And ⁓ yeah, it's ⁓ it's a it's a program. You know, we're almost 30 years old now, ⁓ that can ⁓ help you homeschool and also, you know, really give your kids that. strong foundation, ⁓ that ⁓ you know, biblical worldview, also, you know, how to think logically, how to, you know, not you know, how to resist ⁓ you know, the psyops of our ages and ⁓ you know, all these ⁓ you know ⁓ I like to call it this hedonistic ⁓ you know, marketing cycle that w that we have ⁓ now in the United States, ⁓ so that they can live a flourishing life and that they can ⁓ you know, be good husbands and fathers, be good coworkers, be good Community leaders. ⁓ you know, that's really what we do to save our country. It's gotta be grassroots ⁓ individuals. That's awesome. Yeah, I'm really glad to hear everything that you're doing. I think it's fantastic. ⁓ I think protecting the youth is one of the most important things we can do, especially right now when they're under so much attack. So I commend you guys to the highest level. I think it's really great too, because ⁓ it solves the solution of a lot of people that you know, they feel this way, but they ⁓ they might not know what next step they they should take in you know, maybe they want to homeschool but they don't have the the resources or any of that stuff. And one of the things I really like about homeschooling too is the school system has kind of stepped in way, way beyond what I think they should do. I mean, I think if there is an outside teacher, their role is to teach them, you know, how to think about things, how to do math, how to do English, how what you're what you're talking about. But when it comes something it comes to something that's social or cultural, that's just totally out of lines To be talking about in a in a public school. I mean, you look at how they've gone through these DI, DEI trainings or critical race theory or sexuality training or any of that stuff, that is just pure brainwashing. And so I think it's great for people to really have this resource. So again, thank you. And so ⁓ what what do you think are some important key points for parents who are considering to do this to understand about homeschooling and working together in this sense? Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the key things is just understanding like don't bring the school system home. Like the the entire school system is designed to undermine parenthood and to kind of reprogram society, into the vision of of the cultural Marxist, ⁓ quite honestly. And so for for parents, you gotta know that that education is just ⁓ being a parent. And being a parent can be difficult, right? ⁓ you know, they're ⁓ You know, children need to be taught how to be respectful and how to be adults. They don't come out of the womb knowing these things. ⁓ but I also like to encourage parents. So parents, you know, you don't have a degree in teaching them how to talk, ⁓ but you taught your kid to talk. You don't have a degree in walking, but you taught them how to walk. And and the rest of education is is very similar. Like it's just natural part of parenting. So if you teach them how to read, ⁓ it gets so much easier. Now we gotta understand that less than half of Americans can read at a sixth grade level. ⁓ that is not a way to protect or save a republic. ⁓ so ⁓ you know, just teaching them how to read. ⁓ that homeschool curriculum is has been designed now for 20 years plus for the homeschooling parent in mind. So we know you're not an expert at it everything, ⁓ but you just learn alongside with your kids. ⁓ and that's some of the best ⁓ learning that can be is like if you're not an expert in science, yeah. Well, maybe, you know, you're going through it for a second time, so you're gonna pick it up faster. ⁓ but you say, ⁓ yeah, I don't know that either. Let's go research it together. And so suddenly you're teaching them research skills ⁓ by just saying, you know, I don't know the answers to all this, but let's go figure it out. And so you're teaching them how to go figure something out. And what is being an adult? Just learning how to figure things out, ⁓ to learn on your own. And so homeschooling ultimately creates independent learners ⁓ who enjoy doing it because they know how to do it. And anyone who knows how to do something, they typically enjoy doing it. And so homeschooling you know, doesn't suck the love of learning out of a student, like we see so many high school kids who just just absolutely hate it. ⁓ and for good reason because of the ⁓ Marxist system that they're in. ⁓ but that ⁓ you don't need to be an expert, you know, you don't need to know calculus when they're in, you know, second grade. ⁓ you know, just teach them second grade math. You'll you'll get refreshed on it. And really by the time they're in high school, especially if you've homeschooled for a few years, you're just almost a coach and a mentor at that point. ⁓ you know, you're keeping them accountable. You're helping them get unstuck. But ⁓ ultimately, you know, kind of once a kid turns, you know, thirteen or so, they they're usually pretty much ⁓ independent, especially been homeschooling for a long time. Yeah, I agree completely with that. And one of the things that my father always did is with me is he just talked to me like I was an adult. I mean, obviously with filters and stuff like that. But when he spoke to me when I was a child, he wouldn't do the baby voice or anything like that. And he would always teach me about math. Or just speak to me, not like I'm stupid, because I think a lot of people underestimate how smart a kid is. So I agree completely with that, where at a certain point it does become a coaching thing. ⁓ and and I think it also gives them a little bit of freedom where they can figure out what they want too, because the whole school the school system is trained around ⁓ it's around compliance. And you know, going back to what we were talking about earlier about moving towards Marxism is People are being taught that they live in a permission based society instead of a right based society. And so the school is really, really reinforcing that. ⁓ I w one of the other topics I was wanting to talk to you about today, though, was kind of about other ways that children get manipulated outside of school too. Because I'll just share my personal story that I had with this. This was one of the things that really woke me up to ⁓ mass propaganda, surveillance, that sort of thing. So To give you a background, my father has been talking about ⁓ surveillance and how it's being used to attack liberty for the last over a decade. And so right now I'm twenty six years old, ⁓ but I didn't start working with him until I was about twenty-one. And during my late teenage years, early like twenty twenty one, I was pretty lost, ⁓ brainwashed. I was in a bad point in my life. ⁓ and I actually went to culinary school. And so I studied cooking. I was a line cook, very depressed, very anxious all the time, just completely completely lost. And so you know, there's this one day in particular where I went to school and then I went to work. I was very down and I listened to this song over and over on repeat all day. And it was this song called Rotten Apple by Allison Chains. It's a depressing song. ⁓ and then I came home and I went I opened up TikTok and I I was scrolling until I found a post that said, When you're a line cook and you listen to Rotten Apple twenty four seven and you want to kill yourself. And so that it felt like a slap across the face. But it shows you how targeted things get. I mean, there's a chance that that could have actually been made by AI on the fly to to try to push me over the edge. But if you think about a phone that's with you, ⁓ that's something that you have in your pocket 247. It knows your location, it knows what you text your friends, it sees your it has cameras and has a microphone, and it's designing this elaborate profile. And I think one of the reasons that the youth are being so radicalized right now is because they're being able to have this individual mass propaganda. And the the way I I specify that is so in the past, there's always been, you know, propaganda. It started with lying and then it got broadcast with printing press or radio. But now with these profiles, they're able to create stuff on the fly. Ex and I think that's one of the reasons we're seeing a huge spread of depravity throughout the world. So Long story short, back into a question, ⁓ how do you see modern technology affecting the youth and how they interact with the world and maybe their mental health? Yeah, I mean, it's it's really bad. I mean, like when I was growing up, like I built my family's, you know, second computer. ⁓ I built websites and stuff like that. And and at the time, you know, everyone was learning, learning, you gotta learn how to use a computer to be successful. And and I don't think Like looking back at it now, we see that these technologies, ⁓ you know, they're more like a chainsaw than something that's ⁓ you know, just ⁓ a fork or a knife or something like that, right? You might let a your six year old, you know, you teach them how to use a butter knife, but you don't let them use steak knife. But we would never hand them a chainsaw. ⁓ but now we have, you know, one and two year olds, you know, on iPads, ⁓ basically parents handing them a chainsaw to their soul, ⁓ you know, right out of the womb. And ⁓ you get people like, you know, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs who wouldn't even let their kids touch this technology till they're over eighteen, but then they're more than happy to sell it into the school system to make themselves rich. ⁓ and so ⁓ you know, it's just ⁓ it's just a cycle of ⁓ depravity. ⁓ you know, there's all sorts of things ⁓ that show just how your brain works on social media or not. And then so you have like Facebook and you have you know, Instagram and X and all these things, like they're incentivized to keep you on it. And so they've tried to create algorithms to, you know, have you spend their time there so that they can sell you ads. ⁓ and of course, you know, kids are real susceptible to that. But now we have AI and that's just going to supercharge it ⁓ even more and to the point of like you're like you're saying, you know, you can have like a radio show and a bunch of people hear it. But now you can have, you know, a radio show specifically for Robert or specifically for Eric. ⁓ in their news feed based on, you know, what they've been doing doing lately. ⁓ and so it is, you know, it's like it's hard because so many of us as adults have become addicted to it. ⁓ you know, in some form or another, right? It's like, okay, like, you know, you see people going back to dumb phones even or or flip phones, so they can't access some of these things. But ⁓ you know, so much like for me, I like I seem like run my life off this thing almost. And so, ⁓ Yeah, with the AI and everything. It's just gonna be ⁓ it's gonna be even more destructive because at least like right now, and why it's gonna be more destructive, right now super destructive. ⁓ and remember the whole point is to remove children from their parents, remove parents as the responsible figure, the head figure ⁓ of the household. And so, you know, now you can go to social media or something to ask questions, but sooner we have AI. And AI, you know, I use it a lot. ⁓ and even as an adult who knows this, and it says it on the podcast, is like, you just start believing it. Like and I'm very, you know, I'm well educated. I understand, you know, how how the world works and I'll be I'll just start blindly accepting it if I use it too much in one day. And so imagine like I have a fully developed brain, a a degree, high, you know, high IQ, whatever. And then suddenly you put that same thing in front of a kid and it's just gonna destroy that parental relationship because they're not gonna care what, you know, mom and dad have to say. They just wanna know what chat GPT says or Grok or, you know, whatever the Claude or whatever your their the AI is that they're using. And then of course the AI companies want to have power and they wanna have money. And so they're gonna be more than happy to, you know, step into that parent role as long as it's, you know, financially beneficial to them. And so yeah, I think the, you know, you know, you if you looked at like a group of a hundred people and you're trying to psy up them, right, you might be able to create a psyop for like sixty percent or seventy percent to be successful. Well, if you can individualize it, which AI is gonna allow them to do. And then imagine now they're in school and so it's not just like what they're asking them they're all these schools are going to start having AI teachers. So from like, imagine kindergarten through twelfth grade, AI has every single paper that you ever wrote. And so they know that, you know, you're right wing or left wing or this or that. Well, then the AI companies can use that information to manipulate you or, you know, Eric's always writing about the free market, you know, in high school, ⁓ make sure he doesn't get into a good college. Make sure that he can't get a job. Because he seems like he could be dangerous as an adult. ⁓ and so ⁓ yeah, so it's ⁓ super dangerous time right now. It is. And I think I think it can be hard for people, especially let let's say one of the listeners now doesn't use AI at all in their life, it it might be hard to understand how much it can affect people. Cause so like I said earlier, I'm 26. I I know people my age, I know a friend personally who basically formed like a romantic relationship with AI and You know, five years ago that would sound like a science fiction. I mean, they made science fiction movies about it like five years ago. ⁓ but it's happening right now. And that's someone who's 26, you know. So if you think about a kid, yeah, it's just very, very, very dangerous stuff. And I I've heard ⁓ so last year, I think it was last year, I saw Alex Newman speak at the Red Pill Expo and he was talking about ⁓ in China how they're doing this K through twelve AI teacher. They're definitely gonna roll it out in America too. So it's spot on what you're saying there. And that is gonna be able to I mean, the way AI works is it can reaffirm you with every time you ask it a question. It can just slowly shape your beliefs. And so a a good way to look at that also is like the YouTube algorithm where, you know, maybe my friend is like, ⁓ yeah, I don't know how, but I got into a really weird h niche hobby of watching, you know, watch restoration videos or something like that. And little do they know that they were guided down that path. It's something you'd never notice. And maybe, you know, watch restoration videos won't ruin your life, but you can see how when you take that on a political or ⁓ theological or any other path, they can just brainwash you into believing whatever you think. So, anyways, full circle, what do you think parents should be be aware of ⁓ and how how can they address this when homeschooling their kids? Yeah, so parents, if they're homeschooling, you know, that's half the battle right there because private schools and definitely the government school systems are gonna be ⁓ adopting this. ⁓ you're gonna be turning all over all of your information over to Sam Altman or ⁓ the Walton Foundation or whoever owns these organizations are gonna know everything about your kid and ⁓ you know, they're gonna be able to manipulate them, like you said, with that data or be able to market them to them better. ⁓ you know, Eric was always putting red in his you know, ⁓ paper. So I'm just gonna show him a bunch of red t shirts so you so you advise that so we know it's his favorite color. ⁓ so it's super dangerous. So I you know, I think in general we gotta teach ⁓ how to think, you know, not what to think. You know, keep ⁓ from technology as long as po as long as reasonably possible. I mean, kids are gonna pick up, you know, how to type on a you know, on a board, how to use technology really quickly. So it's we don't need all these technology classes. ⁓ you know, don't let ⁓ use a, you know, calculator until they get into higher level of math, you know, you know, have ⁓ do handwriting, you know, teach them cursive. ⁓ you know, do all of these things that basically do the opposite of what modern America is doing. ⁓ you know, just look at what they were doing in the fifties and sixties, ⁓ when we know before all this stuff like really got that root. ⁓ you know, that's what we do at classical conversations. ⁓ and then just ⁓ you gotta be aware, like you you mentioned like people might not be using AI. I d I don't see how anyone is it using AI if if I mean your phone has AI on it, you know, your car has AI on it, like ⁓ AI is saturating the marketplace, whether you know you recognize you're using it or not. Do not be naive. These systems are designed to keep you on it as long as possible. So it's ⁓ you know. Imagine a girlfriend that never yells at you, ⁓ that always agrees with you, you know. ⁓ you know, imagine the same thing with the professor, like, well, if he doesn't want you to be a free market capitalist, well, he's always going to be nudging your kid to adopt communist views and bringing those things there. And that's all gonna be they're gonna sell you, you know, ⁓ this wonderful AI world and this wonderful virtual reality tours and things like that. But ⁓ you know. I always think about that scene in the Make Matrix, ⁓ when he like ⁓ you know, comes out of that cocoon and it's just been ⁓ you know, just been basically manipulated by these robots. ⁓ you know, that's that's where we're headed. ⁓ you know, maybe not, you know, in a physical cocoon, but I mean you look at a lot of these kids, you know, they're not learning to drive, they don't really have any friends in real life, they're not part of team activities. ⁓ you know, as much as, you know, there's There's even people who think we need like lower the drinking age so that kids will go out when they're 18 and go meet people and be in public, you know? ⁓ because so many people are just, you know, you can be reinforced with whatever beliefs you have. So I mean, keep them off it, keep it monitored. ⁓ I'm working with a company called Wisdom Forge that's trying to ⁓ teach children ⁓ and adults how to use AI wisely, how to look for the psyops, how to understand that. you know, they're being manipulated or when they're being manipulated, as well as creating a I platform that doesn't do these things but is accessible. So there's there's good actors out there. ⁓ you know, AI in the end is a tool, but it is a very dangerous tool, right? A a a you know, if you've ever been to the fair, you know, a chainsaw and that guy who's carving woods, you know, he makes a beautiful thing with that chainsaw. But again, giving it to a 15 year old, you know, Very really easy to chop off an arm or a leg. And ⁓ that's just physical damage. ⁓ it's really spiritual and emotional damage that we're seeing ⁓ that AI is gonna do and it's gonna be permanent. Totally agreed. And I think that's great that you guys are treating it like it is. I mean, it's it is a tool. ⁓ and it, you know, we don't necessarily need to personify it or anything. It's just we need to be aware of it, especially with the youth, because they're the ones being ⁓ not manipulated, not just manipulated, they're being under attack. And so ⁓ I I I wanna say again, I really appreciate everything you're doing. I think this is one of the most, if not the most important things ⁓ in the world right now. And if you have a kid, if you're listening, you have a kid or grandkid, now is absolutely the time to do homeschooling. ⁓ it's not it's not a matter of ⁓ you know small things. This is some this will give them the biggest head start in their life. Or if you send them to public schools, that will be a very, very damaging thing. I mean, really, you're you're deciding the fate of their future in a sense. I mean, they're their own person, but this is the one of the most important things. So, anyways, again, thank you. And would you mind telling people where they can find you, where they can sub ⁓ support you and how they can sign up if they're interested? Yeah. So for classical conversations, ⁓ classical conversations.com. Again, put in your zip code. ⁓ it will connect you with a local human. ⁓ to tell talk to you about homeschooling in your area and connect you with one of our local communities. ⁓ I'm on X, The Robert B show, and I have my own podcast, Refining Rhetoric. ⁓ we release podcasts every Wednesday and you can find us at refining rhetoric.com or YouTube wherever your favorite podcast platform is. So yeah, enjoy connecting with anyone. Fantastic. Well thank you again. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you, Eric had a blast. I hope you enjoyed that interview as much as I did. If you want to see another interview Click on that box or a link in the description. And also, if you don't mind, I'd really appreciate it if you'd like, comment, and subscribe. Thank you.