WEBVTT
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I was born in the Soviet Union, and that's probably the foundation of me trying to get a better life.
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Even if you're well known in Ukraine and well known on you know specific like industry, etc., as soon as you go to the new country, people don't care about who you are.
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You have to build everything from scratch.
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Get in, talk to the people, understand their needs, try even small things such as like, oh, let me connect you with this you know guy, or let me connect you with this company, or this is my advice to you.
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The best sale pitch, it's when it's not a sales pitch.
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Hi everybody, welcome back to Founded Stories, where I'm joined on the couch by Paul Rizanoff.
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Thank you, Paul, for joining me today.
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Um I have been um particularly excited about this episode.
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I think you're an interesting person.
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I think the business is very interesting, but I think you're slightly more interesting than the business.
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So um, before we get into you and who you are, let's talk about MageCloud.
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Um, tell us a little bit about the company, what you guys do, and the problems that you solve.
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We started initially as a uh platform as a service, like a hosting business, when we helped founders 10 years ago to launch an e-commerce website with no technical knowledge.
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So we launched the platform when you can pick up some themes, and then eventually uh we transition into being like a digital agency when we uh handle all the technical or UI UX needs for the founders.
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We understand now that launching e-commerce website on different platforms, that's no longer the issue.
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So anyone can launch the website.
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Um, it's more about uh like making the website convert, making websites stable during the um uh spikes, etc.
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That's the real demand right now.
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And most of the businesses they might already have websites and they need help with just optimizing this uh ongoing.
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So that's what we do for living.
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Okay, so you're basically a payment platform that sits behind the website and enables that website to have the power to trade.
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I'm gonna say hosting platform rather than payment platform, because the payment platform is usually like they use a Stripe, PayPal, whatever other stuff.
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So the hosting platform plus does all the services that on top of that.
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Yeah.
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Okay, understood.
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And what types of clients are you working with?
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So typically it's SMB, it's an e-commerce business that generates about one to ten million a year from the website alone, right?
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So it's a big, and honestly, it's a big uh market in the UK.
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And we also do uh business with US, Australia, you know, so we kind of try in some Europe as well.
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So we international, you know, worthwhile.
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So I mean, but all the markets with the when where English is the first language, that's what we're trying to support, yeah.
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And and how old is the business now?
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Well, we started in 2014, uh eventually, and uh so right now we're almost 11 years old.
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We we we're growing, we've probably overgrown a little bit our name.
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So in the next year we'll plan a good rebranding as well.
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That you know spoiler, I love a spoiler on founder story.
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So you're going for a rebrand next year, and is that just because you've outgrown kind of the the the start-up, I suppose, as it as it were, and you're now kind of growing up?
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It's more about the level of the services that we deliver, right?
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Like in 10 years, so many technologies you know in place and so many new markets, and with AI being now a big thing, right?
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So you your brand needs to represent you, or at least what I'm gonna say, not slowing you down.
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So that's why probably the first advice for the founders when you when you're trying to find the company name or build the company name, try to build something on your own.
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I think one of the mistakes, or I mean, it's not kind of mistake, but probably the company name, Mage Cloud, was so much around the technology like Magento as e-commerce platform, when right now, after the 10 years, you know, this this name became uh the slowdown or like very very much like a bottleneck of what we can do.
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I get it.
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So I'm really proud of the new name uh which we decided to to to to work with, which is Comerx, which we we're basically like trying right now just to put our own brand when we can do pretty much anything.
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Like if I wanna, and again, it's not necessary about the AT anymore.
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So I'm trying right now with a new name.
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I just like if I wanna uh compete with Nike and have a new brand of the shoes, Comrix might work.
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If I want to do a uh commercial real estate, ComRix still might be part of it.
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If I wanna, you know, uh go into the space that Comerics might be a good fit.
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So try when when you trying to find your niche, try to find something which is not not relying on the specific location or the specific brand that's already exists in the market.
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So yeah, I think that's a one of those things.
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And I'm reeling off in my head the companies that I've worked with or that I know that have kind of maybe fallen down that pit hole where they are a little bit pigeonholed by an industry or an ICP or uh our technology, like you say.
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And actually, what you've done is you've broken away from that and now enables you to build anything anywhere.
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I can tell you a fun story.
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So our company, MageCloud, which is registered in the States, and uh we have uh MageCloud.net as the domain name.
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And I was I was trying to get MageCloud.com now for years, and like uh there was a one guy who owns it, like he asked for 50 grand and I offered 25.
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He did not sell it, and now like a couple of years after I'm just like, okay, thanks.
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I probably six goods.
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I just I just registered for whenever I remember like 70 bucks, like a new name.
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That's it.
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And you've got your new name.
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Yeah, absolutely brilliant, and another learn as well.
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Let's not get too hung up on spending so much money on a domain, but actually, you don't know where you're gonna be in five years' time.
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It might be very, very different.
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So I think that's a really good piece of advice as well.
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And and um, so you you said you operate well globally, yeah.
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You're the CEO of the business, you're a techie, right?
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You come from a technical.
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Yeah, I'm a I'm a database engineer myself.
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Yeah, uh the foundation that's how I came into the industry, being like a PHP developer, and then organically grew up into the project management role.
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And then from the project managers, I was the guy who was probably like talk like back in the day, it was Amazon, you know, uh Yahoo Messengers, etc.
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Uh Skype was just like something that came in and then voice calls.
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So my English was a little bit better than the rest of my team.
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So that's how I can get into the marketing and sales.
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Ah.
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So excellent.
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And and so you uh you're a global business, you're based in the UK.
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You're not basically.
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I'm based in the UK.
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We have uh we have a uh small office here in Chester with a few people who basically do uh sales and marketing on the local area.
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We had to shut down our office in Denmark uh for because again, you you have to understand the market, you have to understand the culture.
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That's another big loan for me.
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Yes.
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Um the get you're the gift that keeps giving today, Paul.
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You're already reeling these bits of advice.
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Well, I mean, 25 years of my experience eventually in this helps.
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And and I used to live in the States at some point, uh um with the previous business that I was involved with.
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So and so I can understand like how market works in US.
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UK was a new thing for me, but I mean we're we're growing, we we we're stable, we we're we're we're pretty excited of what the future will bring us.
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And quite a big business now, right?
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You're over uh over 40 people, yeah.
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Yeah, 40 people, uh, and it's uh kind of uh uh remote and Ukraine.
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We still have a good foundation in Ukraine, technical engineers.
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I've got we have guys in Europe as well, and obviously ourselves and marketing being here in UK.
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Uh it's a it's a good stuff, and uh the time zone difference worked quite well for uh UK businesses when and after the COVID people like work remotely most of the time, and me being here helps me to visit the clients for ongoing planning, etc., giving them extra piece of security or trust into what we can deliver.
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So I'm interested to know how you got where you are today.
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Um, so you're Ukrainian.
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Yeah.
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Um, and you've spent some time living in the States.
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Yeah.
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So when did you actually move um from Ukraine?
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Did you go from Ukraine to the States?
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Oh, so so my uh the original company that I uh used to work uh for at MartSoft when I joined as a developer and then became a project manager and sales guy, you know, and uh director of business development, I moved to the state as well.
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Um, that's um uh again pretty good business, you know, software, you know, development, etc.
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And then um unfortunately, um like in the states, there's one of the lessons that I've learned so much, you know, in the hard way.
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So when I moved to United States, we picked up uh Silicon Valley as a as a destination because we were doing like custom development, and I was like, and we were pretty good and acquiring new clients, and I was thinking, okay, as soon as I there, I should be easy just to get in.
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But eventually, that's what I learned.
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Once you if even if you're well known in Ukraine and well known on you know specific like industry, etc., as soon as you go to the new country, people don't care about who you are.
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You have to build everything from scratch.
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So it's it was so hard.
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And my you know, I I was thinking that with the level of investments and money that uh is in Silicon Valley, it will be very easy to get a new client.
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And then I realized, like, hey, there's so many like the competition there, it's so much higher.
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And and and again, like it will take you years to build the trust and network of the people.
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So for me, going to the state was a good lesson, but it was also something like I've got a good tanch in my face back when the market like basically told me like Paul, you have to go back.
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And the war started in Ukraine.
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So I I I quickly realized myself that being a software engineer on the one plate, um, it's not enough.
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Yeah, you have to go for uh you have to understand not how to build the product, but how to market the product.
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So I've joined a different company called Promoter for Digital Marketing Agency.
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So now I guess the big uh reason for our current success as a company is I I have now two pieces of the puzzle.
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So I I basically understand the technology piece software as well as how to market that.
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Yeah.
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And I can pre-screen the clients very effectively now just to see if I believe in the business or not.
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And that's the reason why we're now playing with e-commerce, because e-commerce it's very easy to validate the idea.
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As soon as you have a traffic, if you've seen the conversion rate, and then you basically start producing the money from the first day if the product is right, and and and and and you you've got a good fit.
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Yeah.
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So it sounds like you've become two co-founders, but just you.
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You you've got the often I speak to companies where there's two two co-founders, one tends to be more on the marketing and sales side, and one tends to be on this on the technical side.
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It seems as though you can wear both hats.
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Well, so uh you're always trying to get people who's better than you, right?
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So my co-founder, he's way better in technology than me.
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So even I'm a database engineer, but obviously he's way better than me, so he knows all this stuff.
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Even I can do some coding if I want to.
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But obviously, my my my goal is right now just to be a representative of the company.
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I'm trying to build my personal brand, trying to kind of uh build a community as well.
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So besides of running the agency, you have to, you have, you have to like the best sale pitch, it's when it's not a sales pitch.
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It's more about like, you know, get in, talk to the people, understand their needs, try even small things such as like, oh, let me connect you with this, you know, guy, or let me connect you with this company, or this is my advice to you.
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That works way better.
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And and that's the reason why we started this uh our e-commerce camp uh meetups here in UK.
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Uh you know, it's uh you know, building your brand, that that's that's something that I'm trying to avoid, like my mistakes in the United States and in the UK.
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I'm trying to build this slowly, you know, with passion.
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And um, I'm trying to flip our you know, my my personal mindset into don't sell, just help.
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Yes, and then people will come.
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People will come.
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It's so so right.
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It's definitely my methodology as well.
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Um, and interestingly, I had a uh guest, Mike Adams, on the podcast a few weeks ago, who um has actually made a living out of connecting people.
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Um, and we were talking about top tips for networking.
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Um, and he was saying how the the main rule at a meetup or a networking event is never ever talk about your products or service.
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Um you talk, you you you help people, you have good conversations, you maybe talk about outcomes or products, uh, sorry, problems that you solve, but you never go in and try and sell your product.
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And you're absolutely right, Paul.
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It's a slower burner, it takes a long time, but I believe that it's more effective than just constantly trying to shove your your products or service down someone's throat every time you every time you meet them.
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And you've also built a uh a meetup business as well.
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What's it called again?
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Sorry?
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E-commerce camp co UK.
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E-commerce camp.
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I don't call this as the business.
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No.
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So yeah, I mean, like business when it's generating the money.
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At this point, it's more so what we decided to do is like we say, okay, if we're gonna be organizing events, if I will be organizing this, oh MageCloud, whenever agency, et cetera, running this event, people will know it's a sales pitch.
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So we come up with a different name, which is e-commerce camp, pretty much, you know, count people understand what is that.
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And um, so and so we just we don't even register it, it's just like a website, basically.
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And as of right now, the way I'm still funding this on my own, but we do have a partner.
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So when you said like a ref share, etc., obviously we have partners who are helping us with this.
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So we have a bunch of their uh you know products, etc.
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But we obviously run this on our own rules when we say, guys, please come to the event, but don't be salsy, just you know, like kind of instead.
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The beauty of it is if you ask your clients to come, your clients eventually will be your sales team.
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They will talk to other people that you will invite, they will, you know, smile, they will, you know, Paul, thank you for your work, etc.
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That how you build the confidence in the other people's minds that you're the good guy.
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So, and again, like being Ukraine and probably not the easiest because the mindset, like the mentality is slightly different with the UK.
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So I think we would not be that successful if we would not run this sort of community and you know, recommendations or even like talks when we invite our clients to have a talk at the conference.
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That's a proxy to my company also being part of their success.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And how and how does the e-commerce camp work?
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Do you have kind of regular meetups, like maybe what maybe once a month?
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So when we try to find the niche, what do we want to be?
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So I always said like I would never make money on those events.
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So we don't have membership fees, all type of stuff.
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Um, we organize it's it's not like a breakfast when you go every single day.
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Um, we we have events only twice a year.
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It's basically I I just I just ask my clients what do you want?
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And I said, we're always busy, and I'm always recommending if you have time for the breakfast, just better go and have a breakfast with your wife, you know, with your family.
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That would be way better for you for you, for your mantle and stuff like that.
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Next season great.
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So we just so we just so we just so we just uh you know trying to avoid those breakfast things, and we say, okay, twice a year, let's have a strategic planning.
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Twice a year for one day.
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Like you have to find the time.
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If you want to meet with the founders, and you cannot even imagine how many founders they feel lonely.
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They they all go to those meetups and have a drinks or whatever, but they even like some some of some of my clients told me, Paul, you know what?
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I feel so lonely, I don't have anyone to talk to about my business problem because my employees, it's not the best people to talk about my problems.
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I would rather speak with the same C-level, you know, uh um person in other company.
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I will explain my challenges and see if he can help me or guide me or or we can brainstorm.
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So that's basically the reason why we do this twice a year, April, May, and then September, October.
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So, like, and yeah.
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Fantastic.
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I love I love the twice-a year thing as well.
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You're right.
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It's um it's a bit overkill at the moment with lots of lots of different meets, always something going on.
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And brilliant advice to like if you've got a free hour at breakfast, take take your partner out for breakfast.
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Like, that's probably something that's gonna serve you more than just constantly going to business breakfast, looking for something that maybe is not is not always there, and and just doing it every now and again is probably a better strategy, I would imagine.
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100%.
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But we still have a breakfast today when I'm in London.
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So it like just massage if people are around, they will always come.
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Yeah, I love that mentality.
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So, Paul, talk to us about your background, um, kind of how you ended up doing what you've done today, kind of what what kind of type of child were you, student were you, like how did you get to where you are now?
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Oh, so um I was born in the Soviet Union, and that's probably the foundation of me trying to get a better life eventually, right?
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:47.119
So my parents uh I mean it's pretty much like a Soviet Union, you know, engineers, and uh my mom is an economist, so they and computer science, it's you know, it used to be brand new.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.960
The the first time when I get my computer, I was already in the university, right?
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.799
So it's it's a long time ago.
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:58.160
So um, but I think computer science that's what drives me quite a bit.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:17:58.400
Okay.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.319
It's not even about the gaming, I was just like enjoying writing the code.
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:08.480
So in the school, I was a good student, uh good, good, you know, um uh in the school as well.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.480
In university, I have like whenever I read diploma, whenever how it's called here, I don't know.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:14.480
Well, like a pretty, pretty good student.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:26.559
I've got um couple of uh in in Ukraine there is some computer science tournament uh which I I was like part of it and won some uh second place, I think, and the third place as well.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.240
So pretty good at school.
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:34.480
But um I guess back in the day, web uh development was not such a big thing.
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:43.920
So uh you had uh right now, you know, developers, and again, with the race in AI might be different, but developers they always know which framework they want to do.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:51.359
Back in the days, I was doing like everything, so um like ASP, Pearl, whenever flash, etc.
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:56.000
Like all the technology, um, whenever makes you the money, just do it.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:57.920
Learn, learn fast, adjust it.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:59.759
That's what I think nowadays.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:20.319
Developers, they um, and maybe it's a part of the education when um the fundamental stuff in the computer engineering are not longer there, and with AI and and all the modern techniques right now, um, I think a lot of people go into the computer science without a proper foundation in the background.
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.200
So that's I think could be a problem in the future.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.839
Uh, but I as an entrepreneur, as a sales guy, I was always selling.
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.640
I was selling um in school.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:41.279
So I've just like uh when I I wrote like with with my hands, I just wrote answers to exams and and sell it you know in the school, like make the money.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.160
Uh, you know, again, that's that was not appreciated.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.640
It was not appreciated by the director of the school.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:53.599
So, but when when the daughter of director just grab it from me, then I was catched, and it's like you cannot do it.
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:55.759
And I was like, and I was like surprised.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.640
I was like, why not?
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.039
Like, you know.
00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:58.000
Do you know what, Paul?
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:07.920
We've we've had a lot of the founders on um on this show that have all had little um businesses at school, and they've because they've they've had that kind of early signs that they're gonna be an entrepreneur.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.920
And so a lot of people have sat there and said that they did a business at school.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:18.799
We've had chocolate bars, we've had um t-shirts, we've had all I've never known anyone selling exam results.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.119
So I think you trump them there.
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.599
Well, so so I mean it was all legal.
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:28.319
So if you I mean, it's there is always like a book with the answers to exams.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:36.559
I mean, it's not like you are cheating, you know, it's just you're giving like you're preparing in a nice material for them to study, etc.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.599
But again, it's was all was handwritten.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:45.519
Uh, my mom, she she uh she she was working in the banks, she she'd done like a scans in print.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:46.640
So this was fun.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:21:07.920
So you know, being being entrepreneurial, it starts from like does not matter what you sell if you talk to people and uh even uh it's a veg you know stuff, like you know, because back in the day in the Soviet Union it was really hard, and my mom we've got like a piece of land when we grew up, like potatoes ourselves, and then selling them.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:13.440
Again, like it does not matter what you're selling, if you are capable of selling, that's it.
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.559
It's just like a soft skills that's the most important now.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.480
Yeah, no, that's really um that's really good advice.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:36.400
So you um you went through school, you had the you kind of good student, toe in the line, but also had this kind of other side to you as well that was a little maybe a little bit rebellious and a little bit kind of um eccentric and and and entrepreneurial.
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:44.559
Um and so what happened next when when you kind of uh grew up a little bit and was faced with some decisions around the world of work?
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:46.799
Uh which path did you take?
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.000
It was really I did not really it was not my decision to be quite honest.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.039
It was organic.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:59.599
So I um when I joined as a PHP developer, right, I was doing quite a bit of different things, different projects.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:14.400
And then there's one lady in uh in Miami who uh uh she tried to build a website and uh uh selling um real estate online uh or promoting real estate in lines uh should I say.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:22.720
And then uh one piece of this platform became popular, which is now known as a clew and stuff like that, email marketing thing.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:30.480
So for about I think three years, I was working on one single project just myself, um uh as a software engineer.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:35.039
And uh we basically start chatting, you know, voice conversation, etc.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:42.240
And then again, the company realized that my skills of you know, my language skills, my soft skills good enough.
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:55.200
And then they basically promoted myself, um, and then as a project manager, because I I I want like I always try to be um on top of the business rather than work for someone, you know.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.920
That's probably the number one for me right now.
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:14.160
It's to make sure that I'm aligned, like I'm so in the business and I'm able to bring my opinion or um kind of try to change the way the business works, even if it's not my business.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:34.480
Now probably I'm pretty much trying to give advice to a lot of my clients, but if I I probably it's hard for me to work for someone, it's it's complete like I want to make sure that whenever I do it's on me and I have impact, even if I'm losing something, it it needs to be my mistake.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:41.680
Yeah, you know, so it it's hard to some people are very comfortable of just work for someone, which is fine.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:51.359
Like honestly, um being a founder, it's really, really um, you know, like I I try to start my own company to be my own boss.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:58.559
At the end, I have right now 120 bosses, all of my clients, they all like equally can have access to my WhatsApp, etc.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.920
So um it's very hard to scale as well.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:13.359
So maybe that's another mistake of you know, like a good friend of mine say, like, you should not be working in the business, you should be on the business, which is something that like my goal for 2026.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.480
So it's it was organic growth, um, step by step.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:19.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:21.519
It's definitely easier said than done.
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:31.119
Um, and I don't know, um, I mean, you've got 40 people working working with you now, and and I assume they're not all in the tech, some of them are working in sales, etc.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:48.720
So surely you're at that point now where you can take a little bit of a backward step from being at the coal face with your clients and and actually start to to pass that on to your team so that you can be more holistic and look across the business.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.759
Or maybe it's just to do with how you're wired.
00:24:51.920 --> 00:25:01.200
Maybe you have this just innate need to be absolutely in the thick of it, um, which I've I kind of feel might be the case with you.
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:02.000
What do you think?
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.880
I I it I I need to try.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.960
I mean, like I really enjoy every single conversation, every single chat.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.119
If there's a problem, I'm always on it, etc.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.160
But for the next year, this is kind of one of my plan.
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:19.519
It's like um split my wick, split my time very strategically.
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:20.079
Okay.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:29.920
Then you have one-on-one with one project manager, you have one on one with another project manager, just go through his project, give him just opinion, give him feedbacks if he needs me.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:31.599
If not, let them run.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.079
Yeah.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:33.119
So it's a big one.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.359
The same with sales, the same with the marketing.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:42.880
Because right now I understand we as a company were quite stable, but at the same time, I can see that I became a bottleneck.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:44.319
Yeah.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.000
So I became a bottleneck of us, you know, growing even further.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.920
And that's probably something that I realized just now.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:26:01.119
I need to go, uh uh, I need to, I need to step out from this and let people run this company.
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:01.920
Yeah.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:04.480
And they can always ask my support.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:17.279
Yeah, I think that's a really difficult thing for a founder to do, particularly if you are wired in the way that you are as an individual, which is just being into everything and wanting to know how everything works.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:21.759
And it it's even kind of when you've built products, you've always wanted to know what's going on under the bonnet.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:23.119
It's the same with your business.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.640
Um, so it's quite a hard thing to do.
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:33.599
But I think if you've got confidence in your people, if you've got the right people working for you, then like you say, the only way that you'll actually scale past a certain point is to is to let them run with it.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:35.920
But um, it's it's it's easier said than done.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.359
I do I do appreciate that.
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.920
And is that kind of been the way that you've been kind of growing up as well?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:48.400
Have you tended to want to know everything that's going on all of the time and been constantly like switched on?
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.440
Is that just who you are as an individual, do you think?
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:59.279
I think it's 100% about me wanted to be like engaged with every single point, um, at least till now.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:26:59.759
Yeah.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:20.559
Um it's just like um probably when you are getting older and you refine a little bit your life, and you realize that being in the game and constantly running and hustling, it has a different impact on your family, on your relationship, and stuff like that.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:27.200
And um, like I have my kid right now, who's like one kid 20 years old, thanks God, another one five years old.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:32.559
And now I'm just trying, and he now grew up a little bit to the point when he needs me more.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:38.079
And I'm trying right now just to find a time of being a good father.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.519
I'm already a good father when like weekend, it's only for them.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:44.480
I used to live, I used to walk in on the weekends.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.279
So now for me, weekend, it's only for the family.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:28:06.079
But I still realize that um I can be way more successful as an entrepreneur in general when I when I can step out from one business and try to go into other markets and niches.
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:08.720
So I I never invested in the crypto.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:09.119
Why?
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.720
Because I like honestly, I just building my own mage cloud, right?
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:22.720
Yeah, it's so you as a founder, it's when you 100% focus on your business, which is cool, but at some point you might lose so many different opportunities.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.039
That's and that's not for everyone.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:31.680
I mean, you have to reach the level of income or when it build the foundation.
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:43.359
So, lucky me right now, when my team, they have a like they have my back, you know, they they like I'm not talking with some of my clients for years.
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:44.400
Right.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.240
And they still stay with us, yeah, which is good credit for my team.
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:56.640
So now I think I'm in a position uh of trying to implement the same for other companies.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:08.319
Um I'm I'm trying right now to be part of the investor network as well, when I can reinvest the money into the other businesses and and just scale it out this way.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:16.640
Yeah, yeah, which I think that's truly the takeaway the first couple of years when everyone's just gonna be so busy and you've got to wear so many hats.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:21.440
Um, but the stage that you're at now, I think your role should be exactly that, shouldn't it?
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:22.960
It's like, where can we take this thing?
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:24.000
Where else can we go?
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.279
Can we reinvest some money?
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:26.000
How can we grow?
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.519
Can we take on new product lines?
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.400
Can we, you know, go into a new ICP or whatever?
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:36.400
These are the decisions that, as a founder, you need to have that breathing space and that headroom to be able to make.
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:42.319
Very, very difficult when you're closing deals and talking to customer success team and and and you're in the thick of it.
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:52.240
But it's great that you've already made that decision that next year that's gonna be the the goal for you is to um take that much, much needed step back.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:01.200
Not necessarily to go surfing or whatever, because you seem to be somebody that quite likes work, um, but it's just in uh investing your time in a different way.
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:06.240
I think the key here is strategical decision is on you.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:16.400
The operation stuff, if you can help, if you can find someone who will be doing that, that's the probably the best possible scenario in the business.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.359
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.599
What challenges have you faced along the way?
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:23.599
Or where what have been the most challenging times of your life so far?
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:29.119
Oh, I think for Ukrainian it's the war because that's changed quite a bit, um, obviously.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:35.839
But uh in business in business, that's uh um not being successful in Silicon Valley.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:41.440
That's really was a uh uh one of the biggest uh drops in my life.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:47.920
I was uh that's probably one of the reasons why I quit the the my the original company, right?
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.599
Uh that I work for.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:31:05.759
Uh but um uh even with MageCloud, we've we've got quite a bit of different uh phases, you know, at some point where we're trying to raise the money, and uh we we spent about like one year and a half trying to get there, etc., which was not successful uh as well.
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:09.519
I mean, like you always have ups and downs, you know, 100%.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:18.000
And you have to be flexible with uh the way how you uh manage your business.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:29.200
You don't have to be afraid of moving into um not a fancy way, like from hosting platform to the consulting, just keep the business you know um stable.
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:39.920
And uh another stuff what I would probably recommend to the founders don't sit on the same idea for long if you don't see this is working.
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:45.440
That's one of the mistakes in Silicon Valley, especially when people talk to each other, oh, that's a great idea.
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:50.799
Uh and then like this guy probably already like five years trying to build this idea.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.799
Yeah, you know, it's like and then like I'm always pretty much direct.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:00.240
If I not if I don't like this idea, I'm gonna just tell straight away, like move on, move on.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:00.960
Agreed.
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:04.160
Uh because like it's life is short eventually.
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:05.839
There's tons of ideas.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:14.720
Um, it's executional, like, and if you see this business and not flying, you know, in in a couple of years, spin off, do something else.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:15.359
Yeah.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:32.480
Um, that's um um, I mean, honestly, as of right now, we like I said, as a business where we're stable, we we don't I don't it's right now the commerce a little bit down, so we we're probably not on the spike as we used to be in the during the COVID.
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.559
COVID helps it quite a bit.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:40.799
So I was thinking that I will be a 10 people agency, relaxed and and calm.
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:52.480
So we became 40, so now right now it's um more difficult to um uh and that's the reason for the uh for the rebrand, you know, it's because we we need to represent ourselves better.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:59.279
Um so we but we have a predictable revenue flow, all is good, thanks God.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:05.279
So hopefully, hopefully, my my huge mistake still a little bit, you know, in the future.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:09.359
Yeah, so and your development team still largely in Ukraine?
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:17.200
We uh we um uh still probably majority of our team is in Ukraine, but we are on the west side of Ukraine, so we're quite stable here.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:20.720
Right, okay we have an office over there, but people work right now remotely.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:24.640
We have quite a bit of people in EU as well, like the different countries.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.039
So, I mean, I I'm not really worried about that.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:29.599
So it's it's all stable right now, so we're all good.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:40.319
But you mentioned that was a particularly different, uh particularly difficult time for you personally as well, and and I'm sure business-wise and personally, because that's you're you know, you you you've you're from the area.
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.240
And um talk to us a little bit about that and kind of the challenges that we face them.
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:52.640
So my company, obviously, in the first few months uh when uh when when that started, a lot of clients they were afraid, okay, what's going on?
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:54.480
So that was a tough time for me.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:56.160
I have to be always on the call.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:02.960
I have to, I basically for the first two weeks I sent all of my clients daily updates, what's going on?
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:08.079
That was really, you know, probably the the smartest way of me being open and honest, etc.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:13.920
So I was I was like, okay, we're buying, like, we're going into the basement, or like, hey, the internet connection.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.440
So we're what what what you're doing in-how in in your company to protect your clients.
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:19.679
Yeah.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:20.079
All right.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.119
So our dev servers outside of Ukraine.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:27.679
Uh, we have everyone have like uh uh two different internet providers.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.119
So your developers always will be available, I will be available.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:31.920
This is my phone.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.000
If you want to call me, that's a backup phone, always like that.
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:44.800
Uh because we we are working with the SMBs, it's not like enterprise, enterprise that have a different uh risk management and stuff like that.
00:34:44.880 --> 00:35:07.039
So that's probably right now a very tough time for Ukraine software engineering when big organizations they're moving development outside of Ukraine a lot, just because like everyone supports, but when it comes to risk for their own business, just say sorry, quite a bit of clients that we worked with, they decided to they said, Paul, you know what?
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.840
I support you guys, I still want to work with you.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.000
You you help me quite a bit, but I need to get some engineers in-house.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:15.760
Um, and I said, that's fine.
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.199
I I get as a business owner, I understand what like they need.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:25.760
And I said, if you want me to interview technical engineers for your company, I'm happy to do that.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.239
And would just be a plug as well.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:39.440
And again, that's reduced the income for me as an agency, but that helps the business to feel more confident that he's protected, which is again, you have to adopt as a company.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:46.159
Every single moment, you have to adopt any challenge you you you will have you will face so many challenges.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.320
It's the question how you react.
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:55.519
Yeah, and uh right now I think the biggest things for me, I'm always putting myself into the customer's shoes.
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.400
What would I do when we do a fee?
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:12.400
Like when the client asking me to, let's say, create sort of functionality on the website, I'm always trying to, and when we price it, I'm always in my mind, will I be paying this money to get this feature on the website?
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.519
My own.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:23.840
So um, and uh as right now, like I realize myself that being as a software engineer and marketer, that's not even enough.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.559
And that's why I put a little bit of uh efforts into Kevin Loggage Cook.
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:30.639
So I decided to go.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.599
If I want to work with the merchants, I need to understand the entire flow.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:41.840
That's why we started with um with um uh was the C was the founder, uh Vil.
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:53.519
Um we started Kevin Loggage CoEK, which helps me to understand what happened after the order will be placed on the website, the fulfillment, whenever taxes, all that type of stuff.
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:00.000
Um, so I I'm getting knowledge now in uh just from inside of the commerce.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.519
So you've actually joined a business as a co-founder of a CTO?
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.679
So as a CTO, and uh I mean uh this this is a great family.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:18.880
They have their own business pan shop called UK, and uh we had it, and uh they helped me to get into the UK based on the Home for Ukraine program.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.199
So um again, it's a funny story.
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.679
Like we applied for US visa as well.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:28.559
So we've got US visa, and then we applied for Home for Ukraine with one of my clients.
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:33.280
Um, and uh we were chatting about like life, etc.
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:36.639
And uh he said, I want to start a new business, I need to get the loan from the bank.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:41.440
And I said, Listen, that you know, you don't have to have a loan, let me just like kind of join.
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:43.840
It was in it was interesting for me.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:44.559
I want to join.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.039
I wanted to join e-commerce business just to understand.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.599
And so it's a that's another stuff like for founders.
00:37:52.639 --> 00:38:12.480
Uh the entire like during my entire career, small meetings with people that you never even imagine, you know, will help you, all those small meetings, coffees, etc., somehow it's all connected and and help you with your you know with your business.
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:19.679
Like the guy who uh we were uh I I created the software which is basically do DVD game rental.
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:31.039
The guy messaged me uh trying to build a website, um, and it turns out that he was chief investment officer of East One Group, which is the huge investment group uh in in Ukraine.
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:44.559
So he just had a side hustle messaging me, and then I realized that okay, the guy who's behind the Gmail address that he emailed me to me, you know, from he's actually like the second person of the large investment group in Ukraine.
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:49.840
And those small things, you know, during my career helps me to go with the right connection.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.280
So if you're the founder, go ahead for the breakfast.
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:55.039
Don't overtake it too much.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:04.400
Like if you if you're the founder that just go for the breakfast, then probably not then not the big stuff, but yeah, go for the podcast, be a guest, help people.
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:09.119
If you meet so many people and with intent to help, they will help you back.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:09.760
100%.
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:11.119
I'm so with you on that.
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:18.480
I think sometimes you just do things just because there's no reason, there's no end to the sentence, do them because, and that's the end of the sentence.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:20.079
And I'm a big believer in that.
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:35.360
And I always try, even when it's cold and dark, and I've been working all day, and there's a meetup, and I've had no meetings in London, so I have to make a special trip out, unless there's something really, really important that's stopping me from going.
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:47.920
In my mind, I'm like, just go because, and don't go with any agenda, just go because the accumulation of these things is what actually builds the business, not the sales calls or the other stuff.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.599
It's this accumulation of doing things just because it's the right thing to do.
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.760
I'm so, so with you on that one.
00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:13.519
And I think you're, you know, obviously you're a success story now from always going out there, talking to people, trying to help people, and you've built a really sizable business that's now moving on to its next phase of evolution into what I'm sure will be a hugely successful business.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:23.679
I love the fact that you've also got a bit of a side hustle, um, so that you're constantly living and breathing the process that your main company supports.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.039
That's really clever.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:31.840
Uh, and I'm sure that that kind of um doing that investment as well is that kind of giving back, isn't it?
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.960
That you know, they help you, you help them, and that's the way to kind of go through life, I suppose, isn't it?
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:38.480
Just kind of helping each other.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:58.000
I would say for me right now, like helping other people, it it's something that inspires me from Silicon Valley mindset when people willing to take a coffee with you and give you the feedback, knowing that you cannot give them anything, you know.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:04.960
So giving without expectation anything in return, that's probably the best thing that you can do in your life.
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:06.880
Yeah, I completely agree.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.880
I think that's a lovely point to start to think about the future for you now.
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:19.119
Um and how, well, obviously you've you've given us a a window into what's next for uh for Mage Cloud.
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:20.320
You're gonna do this rebrand.
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:21.440
What's the name of the company, sorry?
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:22.320
Comericks.
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:23.280
Comerics.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.679
Um and that will propel you into a new stratosphere.
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:32.480
Um, and you know, probably in two years' time you wouldn't dream of coming on my podcast.
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.760
But um what's what's kind of the plan for you?
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:40.239
I know you you're trying to be more holistic in your approach to business.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:44.400
You're already a very dedicated family man as well.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:50.079
So, what does the next kind of year look like for you on a personal and a business level?
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.679
Personal, uh spend more time with the family.
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:54.960
That's number one.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.480
Uh go back and look up for your health.
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:00.639
That's uh probably now at 45.
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.400
That's the time to kind of pay attention to this.
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:10.000
Um, so in terms of the business, trying to rebrand number one.
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:17.280
Number two, find out other businesses which is very potentially irrelevant uh to what we do.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:28.159
Try to help them maybe join in some of those businesses, not only full-time, but as an investor, advisor, whenever a partner, etc.
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:31.519
Because I be transparent with you.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.800
Start if I would be starting and completing your business now, I would not start an agency.
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.679
It's very much crowded right now.
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:43.360
It's even e-commerce as a niche is very crowded.
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.679
So many agencies trying to target.
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:52.639
So, what we are gonna do, it's obviously I'm gonna think about the next level of how we can utilize AI as well.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:58.559
So, and um yeah, look out for other e-commerce brand who wanna start something.
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:00.960
So that's uh that's how with the cabin luggage.
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:11.199
So basically, we uh operate as a technical partner when the client doesn't have to pay us anything, it's all on us.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:23.599
So I'm probably gonna look up for five, six companies like that with a good potential and join them as a CTO, take care of all the technical things and kind of split the risk.
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:28.239
As soon as you take the risk, they're willing to work with you.
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.760
And that's probably what will differentiate us from other agencies as well.
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.320
Yeah.
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:34.480
And what a great go-to-market strategy as well.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:51.360
You're actually infiltrating these companies and getting in them and working with them and building such strong partnerships that go beyond the normal realm realms of a of a partnership, um, which will eventually have revenue.
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.239
So it's a really clever way to do it.
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:59.360
I'm I'm sure that you've thought this out and I'm sure that it'll be hugely successful.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.079
I really hope that you manage to get more time for yourself and your family.
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:09.119
Um, you mentioned about kind of self-care and taking care of your health and things like that.
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.880
I completely agree with that as well.
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:18.719
We need to definitely, when you get to get to a certain age, it is time to just make sure that you're not trying to burn the candle at both ends anymore.
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.480
So, and that can take time, right?
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.000
That takes time out of your day as well.
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:33.440
It's quite a commitment to say, to, you know, to look after yourself, even if you're not into the gym, just movement and and fitting that into your day can be um quite a challenge.
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:37.760
Um, so how it what what are the what's the kind of your your chosen poison there?
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.039
Are you going to be running?
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.000
Are you a are you more of a gym kind of guy?
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:50.239
So it's also it's actually like I I've done 10 uh uh uh 10k in Chester this year.
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.360
I went with 22 kilometers run as well.
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:56.159
Uh but I'm lacking consistency.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:56.719
Yes.
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:03.840
So I think right now I you know, like from being like, okay, this one month, etc.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.000
I have to it does not matter what you do.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:13.280
Is it running or training or going to the gym or whenever it's it's just the consistency that's what makes it different, you know.
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:13.679
Definitely.
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:15.119
Even if you do it at house.
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:15.599
Yeah.
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:17.360
Consistency accountability.
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:19.920
I think people always are obsessed with the type of training.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:20.639
Oh, what do you do?
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:21.440
Do you do high rats?
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:22.000
Do you do running?
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:24.079
It actually doesn't matter.
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:35.119
As long as you're moving around consistently and habitually, then it actually doesn't matter what your body doesn't can't doesn't discriminate between the types of exercises.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:41.920
If your heart rate is is up um and you're you're out of breath, then you know your body will love you for it.
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.840
So but I wish you the best of luck with the rebrand.
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:47.280
Um, let's stay in touch.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:54.000
I'm sure that if uh there are any e-commerce businesses that would like to have a chat with you, you'd be more than happy to speak to them.
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:55.679
They can contact you on LinkedIn, right?
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:57.280
They can contact me, you know.
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.679
My my name is very easy to remember, Polaris.
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:02.320
Yeah, it just rolls off the tongue, Paul.
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:02.880
Really easy.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:06.639
Yeah, but I'm I I mean they've obviously it will be in the in the link as well.
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.840
Um so they'll be can can link in with you from from there.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:13.920
Um, and I'd recommend that they at the very least come to one of your meetups.
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:16.400
Yeah, our meetups is a really amazing place.
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:19.360
And uh it's uh it's not about me, it's about my clients.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:23.360
I'm not talking over there, I'm not a speaker, I'm not trying not to promote myself.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:24.800
I'm just trying to give a value.
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:26.400
Yeah, which I'm sure that you do.
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:27.519
You're very genuine.
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:29.679
Um, Paul, thank you so much for talking to us today.
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:31.280
It's been absolutely lovely.
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.519
Uh look forward to following the rest of your journey.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:33.920
Thank you.
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:35.199
Thank you very much.
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.320
I was born in the Soviet Union, and that's probably the foundation of me trying to get a better life.
00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:16.239
Even if you're well known in Ukraine and well known on you know specific like industry, etc., as soon as you go to the new country, people don't care about who you are.
00:00:16.480 --> 00:00:18.640
You have to build everything from scratch.
00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:28.960
Get in, talk to the people, understand their needs, try even small things such as like, oh, let me connect you with this you know guy, or let me connect you with this company, or this is my advice to you.
00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:32.479
The best sale pitch, it's when it's not a sales pitch.
00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:39.200
Hi everybody, welcome back to Founded Stories, where I'm joined on the couch by Paul Rizanoff.
00:00:39.359 --> 00:00:41.119
Thank you, Paul, for joining me today.
00:00:41.439 --> 00:00:45.119
Um I have been um particularly excited about this episode.
00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:47.280
I think you're an interesting person.
00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:52.159
I think the business is very interesting, but I think you're slightly more interesting than the business.
00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:57.520
So um, before we get into you and who you are, let's talk about MageCloud.
00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:01.600
Um, tell us a little bit about the company, what you guys do, and the problems that you solve.
00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:10.480
We started initially as a uh platform as a service, like a hosting business, when we helped founders 10 years ago to launch an e-commerce website with no technical knowledge.
00:01:10.640 --> 00:01:24.159
So we launched the platform when you can pick up some themes, and then eventually uh we transition into being like a digital agency when we uh handle all the technical or UI UX needs for the founders.
00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:29.920
We understand now that launching e-commerce website on different platforms, that's no longer the issue.
00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:32.400
So anyone can launch the website.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:41.680
Um, it's more about uh like making the website convert, making websites stable during the um uh spikes, etc.
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:43.760
That's the real demand right now.
00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:50.400
And most of the businesses they might already have websites and they need help with just optimizing this uh ongoing.
00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:51.760
So that's what we do for living.
00:01:52.000 --> 00:02:00.480
Okay, so you're basically a payment platform that sits behind the website and enables that website to have the power to trade.
00:02:01.359 --> 00:02:07.680
I'm gonna say hosting platform rather than payment platform, because the payment platform is usually like they use a Stripe, PayPal, whatever other stuff.
00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:10.879
So the hosting platform plus does all the services that on top of that.
00:02:11.039 --> 00:02:11.360
Yeah.
00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:12.560
Okay, understood.
00:02:12.639 --> 00:02:14.560
And what types of clients are you working with?
00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:21.039
So typically it's SMB, it's an e-commerce business that generates about one to ten million a year from the website alone, right?
00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.599
So it's a big, and honestly, it's a big uh market in the UK.
00:02:25.680 --> 00:02:32.000
And we also do uh business with US, Australia, you know, so we kind of try in some Europe as well.
00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.759
So we international, you know, worthwhile.
00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:42.159
So I mean, but all the markets with the when where English is the first language, that's what we're trying to support, yeah.
00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:44.159
And and how old is the business now?
00:02:44.479 --> 00:02:50.719
Well, we started in 2014, uh eventually, and uh so right now we're almost 11 years old.
00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.439
We we we're growing, we've probably overgrown a little bit our name.
00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:58.719
So in the next year we'll plan a good rebranding as well.
00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:01.919
That you know spoiler, I love a spoiler on founder story.
00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:09.680
So you're going for a rebrand next year, and is that just because you've outgrown kind of the the the start-up, I suppose, as it as it were, and you're now kind of growing up?
00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:12.800
It's more about the level of the services that we deliver, right?
00:03:13.360 --> 00:03:20.960
Like in 10 years, so many technologies you know in place and so many new markets, and with AI being now a big thing, right?
00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:26.400
So you your brand needs to represent you, or at least what I'm gonna say, not slowing you down.
00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:35.360
So that's why probably the first advice for the founders when you when you're trying to find the company name or build the company name, try to build something on your own.
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:57.680
I think one of the mistakes, or I mean, it's not kind of mistake, but probably the company name, Mage Cloud, was so much around the technology like Magento as e-commerce platform, when right now, after the 10 years, you know, this this name became uh the slowdown or like very very much like a bottleneck of what we can do.
00:03:57.919 --> 00:03:58.400
I get it.
00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:09.759
So I'm really proud of the new name uh which we decided to to to to work with, which is Comerx, which we we're basically like trying right now just to put our own brand when we can do pretty much anything.
00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.360
Like if I wanna, and again, it's not necessary about the AT anymore.
00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:14.960
So I'm trying right now with a new name.
00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:20.480
I just like if I wanna uh compete with Nike and have a new brand of the shoes, Comrix might work.
00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.480
If I want to do a uh commercial real estate, ComRix still might be part of it.
00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:28.639
If I wanna, you know, uh go into the space that Comerics might be a good fit.
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:40.079
So try when when you trying to find your niche, try to find something which is not not relying on the specific location or the specific brand that's already exists in the market.
00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:41.920
So yeah, I think that's a one of those things.
00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:58.480
And I'm reeling off in my head the companies that I've worked with or that I know that have kind of maybe fallen down that pit hole where they are a little bit pigeonholed by an industry or an ICP or uh our technology, like you say.
00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:03.839
And actually, what you've done is you've broken away from that and now enables you to build anything anywhere.
00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:05.360
I can tell you a fun story.
00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:13.040
So our company, MageCloud, which is registered in the States, and uh we have uh MageCloud.net as the domain name.
00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:22.079
And I was I was trying to get MageCloud.com now for years, and like uh there was a one guy who owns it, like he asked for 50 grand and I offered 25.
00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:26.240
He did not sell it, and now like a couple of years after I'm just like, okay, thanks.
00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:27.519
I probably six goods.
00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:31.680
I just I just registered for whenever I remember like 70 bucks, like a new name.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:32.079
That's it.
00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:33.360
And you've got your new name.
00:05:33.519 --> 00:05:36.560
Yeah, absolutely brilliant, and another learn as well.
00:05:36.639 --> 00:05:43.680
Let's not get too hung up on spending so much money on a domain, but actually, you don't know where you're gonna be in five years' time.
00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:45.120
It might be very, very different.
00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:47.680
So I think that's a really good piece of advice as well.
00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.120
And and um, so you you said you operate well globally, yeah.
00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:53.120
You're the CEO of the business, you're a techie, right?
00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:54.319
You come from a technical.
00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:56.480
Yeah, I'm a I'm a database engineer myself.
00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:04.160
Yeah, uh the foundation that's how I came into the industry, being like a PHP developer, and then organically grew up into the project management role.
00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:13.040
And then from the project managers, I was the guy who was probably like talk like back in the day, it was Amazon, you know, uh Yahoo Messengers, etc.
00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.519
Uh Skype was just like something that came in and then voice calls.
00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:21.040
So my English was a little bit better than the rest of my team.
00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:23.839
So that's how I can get into the marketing and sales.
00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:24.399
Ah.
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:25.920
So excellent.
00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:31.120
And and so you uh you're a global business, you're based in the UK.
00:06:31.279 --> 00:06:31.839
You're not basically.
00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:32.800
I'm based in the UK.
00:06:32.879 --> 00:06:40.160
We have uh we have a uh small office here in Chester with a few people who basically do uh sales and marketing on the local area.
00:06:40.319 --> 00:06:47.600
We had to shut down our office in Denmark uh for because again, you you have to understand the market, you have to understand the culture.
00:06:47.759 --> 00:06:49.279
That's another big loan for me.
00:06:49.839 --> 00:06:50.000
Yes.
00:06:50.160 --> 00:06:52.959
Um the get you're the gift that keeps giving today, Paul.
00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:54.879
You're already reeling these bits of advice.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.959
Well, I mean, 25 years of my experience eventually in this helps.
00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:04.959
And and I used to live in the States at some point, uh um with the previous business that I was involved with.
00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:09.279
So and so I can understand like how market works in US.
00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:17.839
UK was a new thing for me, but I mean we're we're growing, we we we're stable, we we're we're we're pretty excited of what the future will bring us.
00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:19.360
And quite a big business now, right?
00:07:19.519 --> 00:07:21.600
You're over uh over 40 people, yeah.
00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:27.120
Yeah, 40 people, uh, and it's uh kind of uh uh remote and Ukraine.
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.920
We still have a good foundation in Ukraine, technical engineers.
00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:34.639
I've got we have guys in Europe as well, and obviously ourselves and marketing being here in UK.
00:07:34.959 --> 00:07:56.800
Uh it's a it's a good stuff, and uh the time zone difference worked quite well for uh UK businesses when and after the COVID people like work remotely most of the time, and me being here helps me to visit the clients for ongoing planning, etc., giving them extra piece of security or trust into what we can deliver.
00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:01.120
So I'm interested to know how you got where you are today.
00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.120
Um, so you're Ukrainian.
00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:03.839
Yeah.
00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:06.319
Um, and you've spent some time living in the States.
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:06.560
Yeah.
00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:09.600
So when did you actually move um from Ukraine?
00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:11.120
Did you go from Ukraine to the States?
00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:24.720
Oh, so so my uh the original company that I uh used to work uh for at MartSoft when I joined as a developer and then became a project manager and sales guy, you know, and uh director of business development, I moved to the state as well.
00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:30.560
Um, that's um uh again pretty good business, you know, software, you know, development, etc.
00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:38.879
And then um unfortunately, um like in the states, there's one of the lessons that I've learned so much, you know, in the hard way.
00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:55.200
So when I moved to United States, we picked up uh Silicon Valley as a as a destination because we were doing like custom development, and I was like, and we were pretty good and acquiring new clients, and I was thinking, okay, as soon as I there, I should be easy just to get in.
00:08:55.440 --> 00:08:57.600
But eventually, that's what I learned.
00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:08.799
Once you if even if you're well known in Ukraine and well known on you know specific like industry, etc., as soon as you go to the new country, people don't care about who you are.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:11.360
You have to build everything from scratch.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:13.600
So it's it was so hard.
00:09:13.759 --> 00:09:24.720
And my you know, I I was thinking that with the level of investments and money that uh is in Silicon Valley, it will be very easy to get a new client.
00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:30.960
And then I realized, like, hey, there's so many like the competition there, it's so much higher.
00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:38.480
And and and again, like it will take you years to build the trust and network of the people.
00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:55.440
So for me, going to the state was a good lesson, but it was also something like I've got a good tanch in my face back when the market like basically told me like Paul, you have to go back.
00:09:55.600 --> 00:09:57.360
And the war started in Ukraine.
00:09:57.600 --> 00:10:04.559
So I I I quickly realized myself that being a software engineer on the one plate, um, it's not enough.
00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:11.200
Yeah, you have to go for uh you have to understand not how to build the product, but how to market the product.
00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:15.600
So I've joined a different company called Promoter for Digital Marketing Agency.
00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:24.480
So now I guess the big uh reason for our current success as a company is I I have now two pieces of the puzzle.
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:30.159
So I I basically understand the technology piece software as well as how to market that.
00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:30.399
Yeah.
00:10:30.559 --> 00:10:36.639
And I can pre-screen the clients very effectively now just to see if I believe in the business or not.
00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:42.000
And that's the reason why we're now playing with e-commerce, because e-commerce it's very easy to validate the idea.
00:10:42.320 --> 00:10:54.240
As soon as you have a traffic, if you've seen the conversion rate, and then you basically start producing the money from the first day if the product is right, and and and and and you you've got a good fit.
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:54.720
Yeah.
00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.480
So it sounds like you've become two co-founders, but just you.
00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:07.919
You you've got the often I speak to companies where there's two two co-founders, one tends to be more on the marketing and sales side, and one tends to be on this on the technical side.
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:09.440
It seems as though you can wear both hats.
00:11:09.679 --> 00:11:13.519
Well, so uh you're always trying to get people who's better than you, right?
00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.639
So my co-founder, he's way better in technology than me.
00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:21.120
So even I'm a database engineer, but obviously he's way better than me, so he knows all this stuff.
00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:23.039
Even I can do some coding if I want to.
00:11:23.200 --> 00:11:27.279
But obviously, my my my goal is right now just to be a representative of the company.
00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:32.960
I'm trying to build my personal brand, trying to kind of uh build a community as well.
00:11:33.120 --> 00:11:40.799
So besides of running the agency, you have to, you have, you have to like the best sale pitch, it's when it's not a sales pitch.
00:11:41.039 --> 00:11:52.639
It's more about like, you know, get in, talk to the people, understand their needs, try even small things such as like, oh, let me connect you with this, you know, guy, or let me connect you with this company, or this is my advice to you.
00:11:52.799 --> 00:11:53.919
That works way better.
00:11:54.080 --> 00:12:00.240
And and that's the reason why we started this uh our e-commerce camp uh meetups here in UK.
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:08.559
Uh you know, it's uh you know, building your brand, that that's that's something that I'm trying to avoid, like my mistakes in the United States and in the UK.
00:12:08.639 --> 00:12:12.399
I'm trying to build this slowly, you know, with passion.
00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:21.360
And um, I'm trying to flip our you know, my my personal mindset into don't sell, just help.
00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:22.879
Yes, and then people will come.
00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:23.759
People will come.
00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:25.039
It's so so right.
00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:26.960
It's definitely my methodology as well.
00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:35.840
Um, and interestingly, I had a uh guest, Mike Adams, on the podcast a few weeks ago, who um has actually made a living out of connecting people.
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.679
Um, and we were talking about top tips for networking.
00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:50.399
Um, and he was saying how the the main rule at a meetup or a networking event is never ever talk about your products or service.
00:12:50.559 --> 00:13:01.519
Um you talk, you you you help people, you have good conversations, you maybe talk about outcomes or products, uh, sorry, problems that you solve, but you never go in and try and sell your product.
00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:02.720
And you're absolutely right, Paul.
00:13:02.799 --> 00:13:13.919
It's a slower burner, it takes a long time, but I believe that it's more effective than just constantly trying to shove your your products or service down someone's throat every time you every time you meet them.
00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:17.360
And you've also built a uh a meetup business as well.
00:13:17.440 --> 00:13:18.000
What's it called again?
00:13:18.080 --> 00:13:18.320
Sorry?
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:20.480
E-commerce camp co UK.
00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:21.519
E-commerce camp.
00:13:21.679 --> 00:13:22.960
I don't call this as the business.
00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:23.279
No.
00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:26.320
So yeah, I mean, like business when it's generating the money.
00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:38.480
At this point, it's more so what we decided to do is like we say, okay, if we're gonna be organizing events, if I will be organizing this, oh MageCloud, whenever agency, et cetera, running this event, people will know it's a sales pitch.
00:13:38.720 --> 00:13:44.000
So we come up with a different name, which is e-commerce camp, pretty much, you know, count people understand what is that.
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:49.279
And um, so and so we just we don't even register it, it's just like a website, basically.
00:13:49.519 --> 00:13:54.080
And as of right now, the way I'm still funding this on my own, but we do have a partner.
00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.799
So when you said like a ref share, etc., obviously we have partners who are helping us with this.
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:02.320
So we have a bunch of their uh you know products, etc.
00:14:02.799 --> 00:14:10.720
But we obviously run this on our own rules when we say, guys, please come to the event, but don't be salsy, just you know, like kind of instead.
00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:18.320
The beauty of it is if you ask your clients to come, your clients eventually will be your sales team.
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:26.159
They will talk to other people that you will invite, they will, you know, smile, they will, you know, Paul, thank you for your work, etc.
00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.960
That how you build the confidence in the other people's minds that you're the good guy.
00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:38.559
So, and again, like being Ukraine and probably not the easiest because the mindset, like the mentality is slightly different with the UK.
00:14:38.720 --> 00:14:52.720
So I think we would not be that successful if we would not run this sort of community and you know, recommendations or even like talks when we invite our clients to have a talk at the conference.
00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:58.080
That's a proxy to my company also being part of their success.
00:14:58.320 --> 00:14:59.120
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.759
And how and how does the e-commerce camp work?
00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.639
Do you have kind of regular meetups, like maybe what maybe once a month?
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:08.080
So when we try to find the niche, what do we want to be?
00:15:08.159 --> 00:15:11.600
So I always said like I would never make money on those events.
00:15:11.679 --> 00:15:14.799
So we don't have membership fees, all type of stuff.
00:15:15.039 --> 00:15:20.080
Um, we organize it's it's not like a breakfast when you go every single day.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:22.559
Um, we we have events only twice a year.
00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:25.440
It's basically I I just I just ask my clients what do you want?
00:15:25.519 --> 00:15:33.120
And I said, we're always busy, and I'm always recommending if you have time for the breakfast, just better go and have a breakfast with your wife, you know, with your family.
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.399
That would be way better for you for you, for your mantle and stuff like that.
00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:37.519
Next season great.
00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:46.320
So we just so we just so we just so we just uh you know trying to avoid those breakfast things, and we say, okay, twice a year, let's have a strategic planning.
00:15:46.480 --> 00:15:48.159
Twice a year for one day.
00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.399
Like you have to find the time.
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:56.000
If you want to meet with the founders, and you cannot even imagine how many founders they feel lonely.
00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:05.039
They they all go to those meetups and have a drinks or whatever, but they even like some some of some of my clients told me, Paul, you know what?
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:13.200
I feel so lonely, I don't have anyone to talk to about my business problem because my employees, it's not the best people to talk about my problems.
00:16:13.360 --> 00:16:19.279
I would rather speak with the same C-level, you know, uh um person in other company.
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:25.120
I will explain my challenges and see if he can help me or guide me or or we can brainstorm.
00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:31.039
So that's basically the reason why we do this twice a year, April, May, and then September, October.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:32.720
So, like, and yeah.
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:33.679
Fantastic.
00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:35.679
I love I love the twice-a year thing as well.
00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:36.240
You're right.
00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:41.440
It's um it's a bit overkill at the moment with lots of lots of different meets, always something going on.
00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:48.080
And brilliant advice to like if you've got a free hour at breakfast, take take your partner out for breakfast.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:59.840
Like, that's probably something that's gonna serve you more than just constantly going to business breakfast, looking for something that maybe is not is not always there, and and just doing it every now and again is probably a better strategy, I would imagine.
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:00.720
100%.
00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:04.400
But we still have a breakfast today when I'm in London.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:09.279
So it like just massage if people are around, they will always come.
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:11.519
Yeah, I love that mentality.
00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:23.599
So, Paul, talk to us about your background, um, kind of how you ended up doing what you've done today, kind of what what kind of type of child were you, student were you, like how did you get to where you are now?
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:33.359
Oh, so um I was born in the Soviet Union, and that's probably the foundation of me trying to get a better life eventually, right?
00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:47.119
So my parents uh I mean it's pretty much like a Soviet Union, you know, engineers, and uh my mom is an economist, so they and computer science, it's you know, it used to be brand new.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:50.960
The the first time when I get my computer, I was already in the university, right?
00:17:51.039 --> 00:17:52.799
So it's it's a long time ago.
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:58.160
So um, but I think computer science that's what drives me quite a bit.
00:17:58.240 --> 00:17:58.400
Okay.
00:17:58.559 --> 00:18:02.319
It's not even about the gaming, I was just like enjoying writing the code.
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:08.480
So in the school, I was a good student, uh good, good, you know, um uh in the school as well.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.480
In university, I have like whenever I read diploma, whenever how it's called here, I don't know.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:14.480
Well, like a pretty, pretty good student.
00:18:14.640 --> 00:18:26.559
I've got um couple of uh in in Ukraine there is some computer science tournament uh which I I was like part of it and won some uh second place, I think, and the third place as well.
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:28.240
So pretty good at school.
00:18:28.559 --> 00:18:34.480
But um I guess back in the day, web uh development was not such a big thing.
00:18:34.640 --> 00:18:43.920
So uh you had uh right now, you know, developers, and again, with the race in AI might be different, but developers they always know which framework they want to do.
00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:51.359
Back in the days, I was doing like everything, so um like ASP, Pearl, whenever flash, etc.
00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:56.000
Like all the technology, um, whenever makes you the money, just do it.
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:57.920
Learn, learn fast, adjust it.
00:18:58.079 --> 00:18:59.759
That's what I think nowadays.
00:18:59.920 --> 00:19:20.319
Developers, they um, and maybe it's a part of the education when um the fundamental stuff in the computer engineering are not longer there, and with AI and and all the modern techniques right now, um, I think a lot of people go into the computer science without a proper foundation in the background.
00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:23.200
So that's I think could be a problem in the future.
00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.839
Uh, but I as an entrepreneur, as a sales guy, I was always selling.
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.640
I was selling um in school.
00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:41.279
So I've just like uh when I I wrote like with with my hands, I just wrote answers to exams and and sell it you know in the school, like make the money.
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.160
Uh, you know, again, that's that was not appreciated.
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:46.640
It was not appreciated by the director of the school.
00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:53.599
So, but when when the daughter of director just grab it from me, then I was catched, and it's like you cannot do it.
00:19:54.319 --> 00:19:55.759
And I was like, and I was like surprised.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:56.640
I was like, why not?
00:19:56.720 --> 00:19:57.039
Like, you know.
00:19:57.440 --> 00:19:58.000
Do you know what, Paul?
00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:07.920
We've we've had a lot of the founders on um on this show that have all had little um businesses at school, and they've because they've they've had that kind of early signs that they're gonna be an entrepreneur.
00:20:08.079 --> 00:20:11.920
And so a lot of people have sat there and said that they did a business at school.
00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:18.799
We've had chocolate bars, we've had um t-shirts, we've had all I've never known anyone selling exam results.
00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:21.119
So I think you trump them there.
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:23.599
Well, so so I mean it was all legal.
00:20:23.759 --> 00:20:28.319
So if you I mean, it's there is always like a book with the answers to exams.
00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:36.559
I mean, it's not like you are cheating, you know, it's just you're giving like you're preparing in a nice material for them to study, etc.
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:39.599
But again, it's was all was handwritten.
00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:45.519
Uh, my mom, she she uh she she was working in the banks, she she'd done like a scans in print.
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:46.640
So this was fun.
00:20:46.880 --> 00:21:07.920
So you know, being being entrepreneurial, it starts from like does not matter what you sell if you talk to people and uh even uh it's a veg you know stuff, like you know, because back in the day in the Soviet Union it was really hard, and my mom we've got like a piece of land when we grew up, like potatoes ourselves, and then selling them.
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:13.440
Again, like it does not matter what you're selling, if you are capable of selling, that's it.
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.559
It's just like a soft skills that's the most important now.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:20.480
Yeah, no, that's really um that's really good advice.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:36.400
So you um you went through school, you had the you kind of good student, toe in the line, but also had this kind of other side to you as well that was a little maybe a little bit rebellious and a little bit kind of um eccentric and and and entrepreneurial.
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:44.559
Um and so what happened next when when you kind of uh grew up a little bit and was faced with some decisions around the world of work?
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:46.799
Uh which path did you take?
00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.000
It was really I did not really it was not my decision to be quite honest.
00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:53.039
It was organic.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:59.599
So I um when I joined as a PHP developer, right, I was doing quite a bit of different things, different projects.
00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:14.400
And then there's one lady in uh in Miami who uh uh she tried to build a website and uh uh selling um real estate online uh or promoting real estate in lines uh should I say.
00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:22.720
And then uh one piece of this platform became popular, which is now known as a clew and stuff like that, email marketing thing.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:30.480
So for about I think three years, I was working on one single project just myself, um uh as a software engineer.
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:35.039
And uh we basically start chatting, you know, voice conversation, etc.
00:22:35.279 --> 00:22:42.240
And then again, the company realized that my skills of you know, my language skills, my soft skills good enough.
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:55.200
And then they basically promoted myself, um, and then as a project manager, because I I I want like I always try to be um on top of the business rather than work for someone, you know.
00:22:55.279 --> 00:22:57.920
That's probably the number one for me right now.
00:22:58.079 --> 00:23:14.160
It's to make sure that I'm aligned, like I'm so in the business and I'm able to bring my opinion or um kind of try to change the way the business works, even if it's not my business.
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:34.480
Now probably I'm pretty much trying to give advice to a lot of my clients, but if I I probably it's hard for me to work for someone, it's it's complete like I want to make sure that whenever I do it's on me and I have impact, even if I'm losing something, it it needs to be my mistake.
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:41.680
Yeah, you know, so it it's hard to some people are very comfortable of just work for someone, which is fine.
00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:51.359
Like honestly, um being a founder, it's really, really um, you know, like I I try to start my own company to be my own boss.
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:58.559
At the end, I have right now 120 bosses, all of my clients, they all like equally can have access to my WhatsApp, etc.
00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:01.920
So um it's very hard to scale as well.
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:13.359
So maybe that's another mistake of you know, like a good friend of mine say, like, you should not be working in the business, you should be on the business, which is something that like my goal for 2026.
00:24:13.680 --> 00:24:14.480
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:18.480
So it's it was organic growth, um, step by step.
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:19.519
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:24:19.680 --> 00:24:21.519
It's definitely easier said than done.
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:31.119
Um, and I don't know, um, I mean, you've got 40 people working working with you now, and and I assume they're not all in the tech, some of them are working in sales, etc.
00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:48.720
So surely you're at that point now where you can take a little bit of a backward step from being at the coal face with your clients and and actually start to to pass that on to your team so that you can be more holistic and look across the business.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.759
Or maybe it's just to do with how you're wired.
00:24:51.920 --> 00:25:01.200
Maybe you have this just innate need to be absolutely in the thick of it, um, which I've I kind of feel might be the case with you.
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:02.000
What do you think?
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.880
I I it I I need to try.
00:25:05.039 --> 00:25:08.960
I mean, like I really enjoy every single conversation, every single chat.
00:25:09.039 --> 00:25:11.119
If there's a problem, I'm always on it, etc.
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.160
But for the next year, this is kind of one of my plan.
00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:19.519
It's like um split my wick, split my time very strategically.
00:25:19.839 --> 00:25:20.079
Okay.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:29.920
Then you have one-on-one with one project manager, you have one on one with another project manager, just go through his project, give him just opinion, give him feedbacks if he needs me.
00:25:30.079 --> 00:25:31.599
If not, let them run.
00:25:31.839 --> 00:25:32.079
Yeah.
00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:33.119
So it's a big one.
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:35.359
The same with sales, the same with the marketing.
00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:42.880
Because right now I understand we as a company were quite stable, but at the same time, I can see that I became a bottleneck.
00:25:43.839 --> 00:25:44.319
Yeah.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.000
So I became a bottleneck of us, you know, growing even further.
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.920
And that's probably something that I realized just now.
00:25:54.079 --> 00:26:01.119
I need to go, uh uh, I need to, I need to step out from this and let people run this company.
00:26:01.519 --> 00:26:01.920
Yeah.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:04.480
And they can always ask my support.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:17.279
Yeah, I think that's a really difficult thing for a founder to do, particularly if you are wired in the way that you are as an individual, which is just being into everything and wanting to know how everything works.
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:21.759
And it it's even kind of when you've built products, you've always wanted to know what's going on under the bonnet.
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:23.119
It's the same with your business.
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:24.640
Um, so it's quite a hard thing to do.
00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:33.599
But I think if you've got confidence in your people, if you've got the right people working for you, then like you say, the only way that you'll actually scale past a certain point is to is to let them run with it.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:35.920
But um, it's it's it's easier said than done.
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:37.359
I do I do appreciate that.
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:41.920
And is that kind of been the way that you've been kind of growing up as well?
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:48.400
Have you tended to want to know everything that's going on all of the time and been constantly like switched on?
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.440
Is that just who you are as an individual, do you think?
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:59.279
I think it's 100% about me wanted to be like engaged with every single point, um, at least till now.
00:26:59.440 --> 00:26:59.759
Yeah.
00:27:00.000 --> 00:27:20.559
Um it's just like um probably when you are getting older and you refine a little bit your life, and you realize that being in the game and constantly running and hustling, it has a different impact on your family, on your relationship, and stuff like that.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:27.200
And um, like I have my kid right now, who's like one kid 20 years old, thanks God, another one five years old.
00:27:27.279 --> 00:27:32.559
And now I'm just trying, and he now grew up a little bit to the point when he needs me more.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:38.079
And I'm trying right now just to find a time of being a good father.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.519
I'm already a good father when like weekend, it's only for them.
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:44.480
I used to live, I used to walk in on the weekends.
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.279
So now for me, weekend, it's only for the family.
00:27:47.519 --> 00:28:06.079
But I still realize that um I can be way more successful as an entrepreneur in general when I when I can step out from one business and try to go into other markets and niches.
00:28:06.559 --> 00:28:08.720
So I I never invested in the crypto.
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:09.119
Why?
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.720
Because I like honestly, I just building my own mage cloud, right?
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:22.720
Yeah, it's so you as a founder, it's when you 100% focus on your business, which is cool, but at some point you might lose so many different opportunities.
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:25.039
That's and that's not for everyone.
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:31.680
I mean, you have to reach the level of income or when it build the foundation.
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:43.359
So, lucky me right now, when my team, they have a like they have my back, you know, they they like I'm not talking with some of my clients for years.
00:28:44.079 --> 00:28:44.400
Right.
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.240
And they still stay with us, yeah, which is good credit for my team.
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:56.640
So now I think I'm in a position uh of trying to implement the same for other companies.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:08.319
Um I'm I'm trying right now to be part of the investor network as well, when I can reinvest the money into the other businesses and and just scale it out this way.
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:16.640
Yeah, yeah, which I think that's truly the takeaway the first couple of years when everyone's just gonna be so busy and you've got to wear so many hats.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:21.440
Um, but the stage that you're at now, I think your role should be exactly that, shouldn't it?
00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:22.960
It's like, where can we take this thing?
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:24.000
Where else can we go?
00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:25.279
Can we reinvest some money?
00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:26.000
How can we grow?
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:27.519
Can we take on new product lines?
00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:30.400
Can we, you know, go into a new ICP or whatever?
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:36.400
These are the decisions that, as a founder, you need to have that breathing space and that headroom to be able to make.
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:42.319
Very, very difficult when you're closing deals and talking to customer success team and and and you're in the thick of it.
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:52.240
But it's great that you've already made that decision that next year that's gonna be the the goal for you is to um take that much, much needed step back.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:30:01.200
Not necessarily to go surfing or whatever, because you seem to be somebody that quite likes work, um, but it's just in uh investing your time in a different way.
00:30:01.680 --> 00:30:06.240
I think the key here is strategical decision is on you.
00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:16.400
The operation stuff, if you can help, if you can find someone who will be doing that, that's the probably the best possible scenario in the business.
00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.359
Yeah, yeah.
00:30:17.519 --> 00:30:19.599
What challenges have you faced along the way?
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:23.599
Or where what have been the most challenging times of your life so far?
00:30:24.079 --> 00:30:29.119
Oh, I think for Ukrainian it's the war because that's changed quite a bit, um, obviously.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:35.839
But uh in business in business, that's uh um not being successful in Silicon Valley.
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:41.440
That's really was a uh uh one of the biggest uh drops in my life.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:47.920
I was uh that's probably one of the reasons why I quit the the my the original company, right?
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:49.599
Uh that I work for.
00:30:49.839 --> 00:31:05.759
Uh but um uh even with MageCloud, we've we've got quite a bit of different uh phases, you know, at some point where we're trying to raise the money, and uh we we spent about like one year and a half trying to get there, etc., which was not successful uh as well.
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:09.519
I mean, like you always have ups and downs, you know, 100%.
00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:18.000
And you have to be flexible with uh the way how you uh manage your business.
00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:29.200
You don't have to be afraid of moving into um not a fancy way, like from hosting platform to the consulting, just keep the business you know um stable.
00:31:29.680 --> 00:31:39.920
And uh another stuff what I would probably recommend to the founders don't sit on the same idea for long if you don't see this is working.
00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:45.440
That's one of the mistakes in Silicon Valley, especially when people talk to each other, oh, that's a great idea.
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:50.799
Uh and then like this guy probably already like five years trying to build this idea.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.799
Yeah, you know, it's like and then like I'm always pretty much direct.
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:00.240
If I not if I don't like this idea, I'm gonna just tell straight away, like move on, move on.
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:00.960
Agreed.
00:32:01.119 --> 00:32:04.160
Uh because like it's life is short eventually.
00:32:04.400 --> 00:32:05.839
There's tons of ideas.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:14.720
Um, it's executional, like, and if you see this business and not flying, you know, in in a couple of years, spin off, do something else.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:15.359
Yeah.
00:32:15.599 --> 00:32:32.480
Um, that's um um, I mean, honestly, as of right now, we like I said, as a business where we're stable, we we don't I don't it's right now the commerce a little bit down, so we we're probably not on the spike as we used to be in the during the COVID.
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:34.559
COVID helps it quite a bit.
00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:40.799
So I was thinking that I will be a 10 people agency, relaxed and and calm.
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:52.480
So we became 40, so now right now it's um more difficult to um uh and that's the reason for the uh for the rebrand, you know, it's because we we need to represent ourselves better.
00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:59.279
Um so we but we have a predictable revenue flow, all is good, thanks God.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:05.279
So hopefully, hopefully, my my huge mistake still a little bit, you know, in the future.
00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:09.359
Yeah, so and your development team still largely in Ukraine?
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:17.200
We uh we um uh still probably majority of our team is in Ukraine, but we are on the west side of Ukraine, so we're quite stable here.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:20.720
Right, okay we have an office over there, but people work right now remotely.
00:33:20.799 --> 00:33:24.640
We have quite a bit of people in EU as well, like the different countries.
00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:27.039
So, I mean, I I'm not really worried about that.
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:29.599
So it's it's all stable right now, so we're all good.
00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:40.319
But you mentioned that was a particularly different, uh particularly difficult time for you personally as well, and and I'm sure business-wise and personally, because that's you're you know, you you you've you're from the area.
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:44.240
And um talk to us a little bit about that and kind of the challenges that we face them.
00:33:44.640 --> 00:33:52.640
So my company, obviously, in the first few months uh when uh when when that started, a lot of clients they were afraid, okay, what's going on?
00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:54.480
So that was a tough time for me.
00:33:54.559 --> 00:33:56.160
I have to be always on the call.
00:33:56.319 --> 00:34:02.960
I have to, I basically for the first two weeks I sent all of my clients daily updates, what's going on?
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:08.079
That was really, you know, probably the the smartest way of me being open and honest, etc.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:13.920
So I was I was like, okay, we're buying, like, we're going into the basement, or like, hey, the internet connection.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:19.440
So we're what what what you're doing in-how in in your company to protect your clients.
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:19.679
Yeah.
00:34:19.840 --> 00:34:20.079
All right.
00:34:20.159 --> 00:34:23.119
So our dev servers outside of Ukraine.
00:34:23.199 --> 00:34:27.679
Uh, we have everyone have like uh uh two different internet providers.
00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:31.119
So your developers always will be available, I will be available.
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:31.920
This is my phone.
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.000
If you want to call me, that's a backup phone, always like that.
00:34:36.480 --> 00:34:44.800
Uh because we we are working with the SMBs, it's not like enterprise, enterprise that have a different uh risk management and stuff like that.
00:34:44.880 --> 00:35:07.039
So that's probably right now a very tough time for Ukraine software engineering when big organizations they're moving development outside of Ukraine a lot, just because like everyone supports, but when it comes to risk for their own business, just say sorry, quite a bit of clients that we worked with, they decided to they said, Paul, you know what?
00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:09.840
I support you guys, I still want to work with you.
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:14.000
You you help me quite a bit, but I need to get some engineers in-house.
00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:15.760
Um, and I said, that's fine.
00:35:15.840 --> 00:35:19.199
I I get as a business owner, I understand what like they need.
00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:25.760
And I said, if you want me to interview technical engineers for your company, I'm happy to do that.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:28.239
And would just be a plug as well.
00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:39.440
And again, that's reduced the income for me as an agency, but that helps the business to feel more confident that he's protected, which is again, you have to adopt as a company.
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:46.159
Every single moment, you have to adopt any challenge you you you will have you will face so many challenges.
00:35:46.480 --> 00:35:48.320
It's the question how you react.
00:35:48.559 --> 00:35:55.519
Yeah, and uh right now I think the biggest things for me, I'm always putting myself into the customer's shoes.
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.400
What would I do when we do a fee?
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:12.400
Like when the client asking me to, let's say, create sort of functionality on the website, I'm always trying to, and when we price it, I'm always in my mind, will I be paying this money to get this feature on the website?
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.519
My own.
00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:23.840
So um, and uh as right now, like I realize myself that being as a software engineer and marketer, that's not even enough.
00:36:24.079 --> 00:36:28.559
And that's why I put a little bit of uh efforts into Kevin Loggage Cook.
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:30.639
So I decided to go.
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.599
If I want to work with the merchants, I need to understand the entire flow.
00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:41.840
That's why we started with um with um uh was the C was the founder, uh Vil.
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:53.519
Um we started Kevin Loggage CoEK, which helps me to understand what happened after the order will be placed on the website, the fulfillment, whenever taxes, all that type of stuff.
00:36:53.760 --> 00:37:00.000
Um, so I I'm getting knowledge now in uh just from inside of the commerce.
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.519
So you've actually joined a business as a co-founder of a CTO?
00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.679
So as a CTO, and uh I mean uh this this is a great family.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:18.880
They have their own business pan shop called UK, and uh we had it, and uh they helped me to get into the UK based on the Home for Ukraine program.
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.199
So um again, it's a funny story.
00:37:21.360 --> 00:37:23.679
Like we applied for US visa as well.
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:28.559
So we've got US visa, and then we applied for Home for Ukraine with one of my clients.
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:33.280
Um, and uh we were chatting about like life, etc.
00:37:33.519 --> 00:37:36.639
And uh he said, I want to start a new business, I need to get the loan from the bank.
00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:41.440
And I said, Listen, that you know, you don't have to have a loan, let me just like kind of join.
00:37:41.760 --> 00:37:43.840
It was in it was interesting for me.
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:44.559
I want to join.
00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:47.039
I wanted to join e-commerce business just to understand.
00:37:47.360 --> 00:37:51.599
And so it's a that's another stuff like for founders.
00:37:52.639 --> 00:38:12.480
Uh the entire like during my entire career, small meetings with people that you never even imagine, you know, will help you, all those small meetings, coffees, etc., somehow it's all connected and and help you with your you know with your business.
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:19.679
Like the guy who uh we were uh I I created the software which is basically do DVD game rental.
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:31.039
The guy messaged me uh trying to build a website, um, and it turns out that he was chief investment officer of East One Group, which is the huge investment group uh in in Ukraine.
00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:44.559
So he just had a side hustle messaging me, and then I realized that okay, the guy who's behind the Gmail address that he emailed me to me, you know, from he's actually like the second person of the large investment group in Ukraine.
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:49.840
And those small things, you know, during my career helps me to go with the right connection.
00:38:50.000 --> 00:38:53.280
So if you're the founder, go ahead for the breakfast.
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:55.039
Don't overtake it too much.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:04.400
Like if you if you're the founder that just go for the breakfast, then probably not then not the big stuff, but yeah, go for the podcast, be a guest, help people.
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:09.119
If you meet so many people and with intent to help, they will help you back.
00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:09.760
100%.
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:11.119
I'm so with you on that.
00:39:11.199 --> 00:39:18.480
I think sometimes you just do things just because there's no reason, there's no end to the sentence, do them because, and that's the end of the sentence.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:20.079
And I'm a big believer in that.
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:35.360
And I always try, even when it's cold and dark, and I've been working all day, and there's a meetup, and I've had no meetings in London, so I have to make a special trip out, unless there's something really, really important that's stopping me from going.
00:39:35.920 --> 00:39:47.920
In my mind, I'm like, just go because, and don't go with any agenda, just go because the accumulation of these things is what actually builds the business, not the sales calls or the other stuff.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:39:51.599
It's this accumulation of doing things just because it's the right thing to do.
00:39:51.760 --> 00:39:53.760
I'm so, so with you on that one.
00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:13.519
And I think you're, you know, obviously you're a success story now from always going out there, talking to people, trying to help people, and you've built a really sizable business that's now moving on to its next phase of evolution into what I'm sure will be a hugely successful business.
00:40:13.679 --> 00:40:23.679
I love the fact that you've also got a bit of a side hustle, um, so that you're constantly living and breathing the process that your main company supports.
00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:25.039
That's really clever.
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:31.840
Uh, and I'm sure that that kind of um doing that investment as well is that kind of giving back, isn't it?
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:36.960
That you know, they help you, you help them, and that's the way to kind of go through life, I suppose, isn't it?
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:38.480
Just kind of helping each other.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:58.000
I would say for me right now, like helping other people, it it's something that inspires me from Silicon Valley mindset when people willing to take a coffee with you and give you the feedback, knowing that you cannot give them anything, you know.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:04.960
So giving without expectation anything in return, that's probably the best thing that you can do in your life.
00:41:05.199 --> 00:41:06.880
Yeah, I completely agree.
00:41:07.039 --> 00:41:10.880
I think that's a lovely point to start to think about the future for you now.
00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:19.119
Um and how, well, obviously you've you've given us a a window into what's next for uh for Mage Cloud.
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:20.320
You're gonna do this rebrand.
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:21.440
What's the name of the company, sorry?
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:22.320
Comericks.
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:23.280
Comerics.
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:27.679
Um and that will propel you into a new stratosphere.
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:32.480
Um, and you know, probably in two years' time you wouldn't dream of coming on my podcast.
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:35.760
But um what's what's kind of the plan for you?
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:40.239
I know you you're trying to be more holistic in your approach to business.
00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:44.400
You're already a very dedicated family man as well.
00:41:44.559 --> 00:41:50.079
So, what does the next kind of year look like for you on a personal and a business level?
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.679
Personal, uh spend more time with the family.
00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:54.960
That's number one.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:58.480
Uh go back and look up for your health.
00:41:58.639 --> 00:42:00.639
That's uh probably now at 45.
00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:04.400
That's the time to kind of pay attention to this.
00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:10.000
Um, so in terms of the business, trying to rebrand number one.
00:42:10.239 --> 00:42:17.280
Number two, find out other businesses which is very potentially irrelevant uh to what we do.
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:28.159
Try to help them maybe join in some of those businesses, not only full-time, but as an investor, advisor, whenever a partner, etc.
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:31.519
Because I be transparent with you.
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:36.800
Start if I would be starting and completing your business now, I would not start an agency.
00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.679
It's very much crowded right now.
00:42:40.239 --> 00:42:43.360
It's even e-commerce as a niche is very crowded.
00:42:43.519 --> 00:42:45.679
So many agencies trying to target.
00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:52.639
So, what we are gonna do, it's obviously I'm gonna think about the next level of how we can utilize AI as well.
00:42:52.880 --> 00:42:58.559
So, and um yeah, look out for other e-commerce brand who wanna start something.
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:00.960
So that's uh that's how with the cabin luggage.
00:43:01.039 --> 00:43:11.199
So basically, we uh operate as a technical partner when the client doesn't have to pay us anything, it's all on us.
00:43:11.360 --> 00:43:23.599
So I'm probably gonna look up for five, six companies like that with a good potential and join them as a CTO, take care of all the technical things and kind of split the risk.
00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:28.239
As soon as you take the risk, they're willing to work with you.
00:43:28.559 --> 00:43:31.760
And that's probably what will differentiate us from other agencies as well.
00:43:32.079 --> 00:43:32.320
Yeah.
00:43:32.400 --> 00:43:34.480
And what a great go-to-market strategy as well.
00:43:34.559 --> 00:43:51.360
You're actually infiltrating these companies and getting in them and working with them and building such strong partnerships that go beyond the normal realm realms of a of a partnership, um, which will eventually have revenue.
00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:54.239
So it's a really clever way to do it.
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:59.360
I'm I'm sure that you've thought this out and I'm sure that it'll be hugely successful.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.079
I really hope that you manage to get more time for yourself and your family.
00:44:04.239 --> 00:44:09.119
Um, you mentioned about kind of self-care and taking care of your health and things like that.
00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.880
I completely agree with that as well.
00:44:11.039 --> 00:44:18.719
We need to definitely, when you get to get to a certain age, it is time to just make sure that you're not trying to burn the candle at both ends anymore.
00:44:18.800 --> 00:44:20.480
So, and that can take time, right?
00:44:20.639 --> 00:44:22.000
That takes time out of your day as well.
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:33.440
It's quite a commitment to say, to, you know, to look after yourself, even if you're not into the gym, just movement and and fitting that into your day can be um quite a challenge.
00:44:33.599 --> 00:44:37.760
Um, so how it what what are the what's the kind of your your chosen poison there?
00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.039
Are you going to be running?
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.000
Are you a are you more of a gym kind of guy?
00:44:42.400 --> 00:44:50.239
So it's also it's actually like I I've done 10 uh uh uh 10k in Chester this year.
00:44:50.320 --> 00:44:53.360
I went with 22 kilometers run as well.
00:44:53.519 --> 00:44:56.159
Uh but I'm lacking consistency.
00:44:56.320 --> 00:44:56.719
Yes.
00:44:57.039 --> 00:45:03.840
So I think right now I you know, like from being like, okay, this one month, etc.
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:06.000
I have to it does not matter what you do.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:13.280
Is it running or training or going to the gym or whenever it's it's just the consistency that's what makes it different, you know.
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:13.679
Definitely.
00:45:14.079 --> 00:45:15.119
Even if you do it at house.
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:15.599
Yeah.
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:17.360
Consistency accountability.
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:19.920
I think people always are obsessed with the type of training.
00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:20.639
Oh, what do you do?
00:45:20.719 --> 00:45:21.440
Do you do high rats?
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:22.000
Do you do running?
00:45:22.719 --> 00:45:24.079
It actually doesn't matter.
00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:35.119
As long as you're moving around consistently and habitually, then it actually doesn't matter what your body doesn't can't doesn't discriminate between the types of exercises.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:41.920
If your heart rate is is up um and you're you're out of breath, then you know your body will love you for it.
00:45:42.079 --> 00:45:45.840
So but I wish you the best of luck with the rebrand.
00:45:45.920 --> 00:45:47.280
Um, let's stay in touch.
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:54.000
I'm sure that if uh there are any e-commerce businesses that would like to have a chat with you, you'd be more than happy to speak to them.
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:55.679
They can contact you on LinkedIn, right?
00:45:56.239 --> 00:45:57.280
They can contact me, you know.
00:45:57.360 --> 00:45:59.679
My my name is very easy to remember, Polaris.
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:02.320
Yeah, it just rolls off the tongue, Paul.
00:46:02.400 --> 00:46:02.880
Really easy.
00:46:02.960 --> 00:46:06.639
Yeah, but I'm I I mean they've obviously it will be in the in the link as well.
00:46:06.800 --> 00:46:09.840
Um so they'll be can can link in with you from from there.
00:46:10.000 --> 00:46:13.920
Um, and I'd recommend that they at the very least come to one of your meetups.
00:46:14.239 --> 00:46:16.400
Yeah, our meetups is a really amazing place.
00:46:16.719 --> 00:46:19.360
And uh it's uh it's not about me, it's about my clients.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:23.360
I'm not talking over there, I'm not a speaker, I'm not trying not to promote myself.
00:46:23.519 --> 00:46:24.800
I'm just trying to give a value.
00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:26.400
Yeah, which I'm sure that you do.
00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:27.519
You're very genuine.
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:29.679
Um, Paul, thank you so much for talking to us today.
00:46:29.920 --> 00:46:31.280
It's been absolutely lovely.
00:46:31.440 --> 00:46:33.519
Uh look forward to following the rest of your journey.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:33.920
Thank you.
00:46:34.239 --> 00:46:35.199
Thank you very much.
