WEBVTT
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How do you have the confidence at 19 to be at university to back up sort of stuff business?
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And like I never even at 19, that self-developed and voice in the head did not exist.
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Today I'm joined by Dominic McGregor, founder of Fearless Adventures, and somebody who has very, very openly shared his journey.
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Non-conventional route was always the answer for me.
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And stopping drinking was a non-conventional route.
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We didn't exist.
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Yeah, we did it in 24 minutes.
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Dominic McGregor, I feel a little bit nervous today.
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Um because my my question to the team when they were said about you coming on the show was why does he want to come on my podcast?
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Like you are so well known, you've been on so many shows, people know so much about you.
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Um that I started to I got a little bit of uh of the nerves.
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But actually, I've been watching your stuff, I've been doing some research into who you are and what you stand for, and I've gone from feeling nervous to like super excited to have you here.
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So thank you so much for joining me.
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No problem.
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I think what you just said there is probably probably one of the best intros and compliments I've ever had.
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So thank you.
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I appreciate that.
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No, and it's all true.
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Anyone that knows me will tell you that I am to my detriment sometimes very genuine.
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Um, but no, it is it is fantastic to have you.
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I have a challenge today.
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Um, this is found as stories, and therefore, my job for the listeners and the watchers is to delve into your story, who you are, where you came from.
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99% of people that sit on that chair, no one knows who they are, and they're really interested in their journey, their childhood, their education, their first jobs.
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Most people know who you are and know the things that you stand for.
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So my challenge was to try and almost weave in and out of what people really know about you and and really delve a little bit deeper.
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Um, and also what I'm keen to talk about today is what you're doing now.
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Because, with all respect, that I find I struggle to find a lot of content about what you're building today.
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It's all about the journey that you've been on, which is amazing, by the way, and super interesting.
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But I think where I'd like to start today is in the present day.
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I'd like you to tell me a little bit about Fearless.
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I'd like to tell me what you stand for and the reason why you do what you do.
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Yeah, that's a great question.
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I think to understand we are to we are who we are today based on who we've been previously.
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So my entire experience and what I'm doing today is shaped on where I've come from.
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So fearless, firstly, like fearless was one of the values that we had a social chain.
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That was like the number one value.
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So I've always held on to that, and that's why we call the business fearless, because it was something which means a lot to me.
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Um, because fearlessness is like it's like a really like strong emotion.
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If like if you say someone is fearless, it means they're like ready to walk into a storm head on and take and take it on.
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And you know, being a founder in a business a lot of times is like taking that umbrella into the storm and being like, I'll be fine.
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So um that was where the kind of foundation came from, but also the kind of thesis of the business is we want to help founders scale a business, and the reason why it's like positioned like that is because I got really tired of being a service provider for businesses, providing marketing, providing, providing growth, and like yes, sharing in that a little bit, but at the end of the day, the brand would always sit there and take the accolades for the work they've done rather than actually the agency, because that no brand ever sits there and puts their agency on a pedestal, it's always themselves and stuff like that.
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So when we're mentioning when when you see big brands you're working with mentioning the role social media has played in their growth of share price from hundreds of thousands to millions and billions, and you know you're the footnote, but you know you've driven that.
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It feels a little bit like oh god, why I wish I could actually share that success more.
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Yeah.
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So that kind of led to my logic of actually I want to invest in companies that I have a vested interest in and help them grow through my expertise in marketing and social media.
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So today, what Fearless is, is a business which invests and supports founders growing their company.
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And we look at that from a number of different areas, and I think the number, I guess the the three areas I like to focus on, but I think the number one area which we I think we talk about the most is the people.
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You know, having helping founders get them the get them the right people around them.
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And ultimately, someone once told me you've got two problems in business, just two, only two.
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Number one is people, and the second problem is how long it takes you to realize that people's your only problem.
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I love that.
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So, and I do believe that.
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I do believe that if you put the right person into the right position with the right kind of support, you get amazing outcomes.
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And actually, a lot of times in business, the problems come from having the wrong person in the wrong place or just the wrong person in general.
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So, for example, you know, take a salesperson, and I've experienced this number of times.
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You decide you want to grow the business, you go and hire a salesperson.
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It takes you three months to find that person because of the recruitment process.
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You know, an interview moves from Monday to next week because no one can do it.
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Um, you go for the long list, the short list.
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It then takes you three months to hire them because they're on a notice period.
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So then therefore are you six months down?
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It then takes you realize to realize three months if they're any good.
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And then if you want to get rid of them, it takes you three months to get rid of them because we've got a three-month notice period.
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So, therefore, you've lost a year of a salesperson because they weren't good.
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And how far back would that set your business based on all the assumptions you make?
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So, the strongest thing we talk about in Fearless is having a um academy and a talent pool where we help businesses find great people, and that is people we've trained and developed ourselves that we put on our programs and courses for our academy, but also people who are in industry, and that is everything from entry-level staff to helping people find the right chair, and we do that whole thing, right?
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And then the other side, obviously, funding, access to funding makes a massive help, so we invest in companies, and then the third is marketing.
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Where you think I'd come from, you'd think I'd say marketing is the most important piece, but it is.
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But for a business, I always believe that the brand sits so close to the founders.
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So the best people to articulate the brand story are founders themselves, not an agency, not a third party.
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So if you can get someone to work with the founders to help them articulate the brand story, where we see so much founder-led marketing now, it's one of the highest performing contents as well in paid ads is founder-led content.
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You can actually then scale up a business much easier than just giving all this the work to an agency.
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So they're the three O's you look at, and we work with businesses across a range of sectors, and we have so far trained about over 1,000 people through either an academy, training courses, apprenticeships, help them get into jobs, and we've invested in 10 companies, and we worked with about 20 companies in terms of like growth services as well, keeping it very small, doing amazing work with less people, working with businesses we want to work with, in sectors we believe in, and and yeah, that that's that's what I'm doing today.
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And that's all been born out of running an agency business, which is 250 people across the world working with some of the biggest brands, and the lessons I learn on why agencies are um incredible businesses to learn from, but sometimes fundamentally set up in a way where they're very hard to scale.
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So many spider senses are tingling right now with what you've just said.
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Let me try and break this down just a little bit, and I do want to go backwards in a minute and talk about you and your story, but um something that I know is super relevant for this particular podcast is the founder-led sales journey.
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So typically, a project that I work on, the outcome that the client is looking for is a move from founder-led sales into a predictable sales motion.
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Um, the problem is that when I go in, I realise that they're not quite ready for that because they don't have a content strategy, they don't have any demand generation in the business, the founder is very usually anti-marketing or at least needs marketing to be sold to them as a concept.
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And you'll know better than anyone how many times you have to sell the the brand of a business back to the founder and almost kind of sell their own business business to them.
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So it's really interesting to me the point that founders should actually take a step back because it sounds like what you're saying is actually lean in more and be more visible, don't take a step back and go, right, okay, my business is going to be value more valuable if if I can show that I'm not needed to drive revenue.
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What are your thoughts on that?
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So there's certain stages where I think it's good and it's bad.
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So let me give you a best example where I think it's really bad is the very early stage.
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So if it's just you as a person and you're trying to personal brand yourself, and therefore you are then a limiting factor because people don't want to work with you as a company, they want to work with you as a person.
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So I always say to people, the best way to start a business is not by a founder having a personal brand, because you will pigeonhole yourself so quickly in a more of a freelancer perspective, maybe.
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Yeah.
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So don't do that.
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Build a business which has got a brand and reputation, and you are the founder of that business.
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You are not Ben who runs an agent, who runs this agency, and you spend all your time marketing Ben, Ben, Ben, because every client you work with wants Ben.
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They don't want the business because they don't even know what the business is called.
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And this is what we did so well is that we might have led founder-led sales and being one of the first people to really drive into personal brand, but we spent so much time building social chain as a brand that we became Dom and Steve from social chain.
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Yeah.
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We weren't Dom and Steve, and then social chain was underneath here.
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It was social chain brand was first, and then then people just come back founders.
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So going back to that part at the start, very bad.
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In the middle period where you've started to get a bit of brand recognition for the business, it becomes powerful because there's no better person to do any sales than the founder.
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Right.
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So in that period there where you've got off the ground and you're trying to hammer things home and resources are finite and you're the best person to sell, incredibly valuable.
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When you get to enterprise level and at that point there, what you're talking about, where they're trying to transition out of it, again becomes in it becomes an issue because the founder has much more responsibility to do than just drive sales.
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So I look at it from different perspectives.
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So different stages has different value.
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In that situation, the founder's responsibility for sales is not to be in the room doing the sales, it's to create a halo effect of a business which has a very powerful brand, which people want to work with.
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It's not doing the sales.
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In that middle bit, it's the founder doing the pitches, it's the founder, you know, driving things forward, it's the founder that in that space where they are uniquely positioned to do that because that's who they are.
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And sales is the most important thing in a business.
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As you scale, the founder's responsibility shifts to building a building a story and narrative of a product which people love, not necessarily being in those meetings.
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Yeah, no, great analogy.
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I love the one, two, and three um phases.
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And I think where where I was just referring to, it's probably between that one and two, where what the the step that they seem to miss is building the brand and building the brand voice and giving it strength, giving letting it stand on its own two feet.
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I'm I'm guilty of it, but I try and I try and plug the engine all the time, and people are like, How much are what's your day rate?
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Yeah, yeah, you know, so I I I completely hear you, and I think it's fantastic advice and something that I'll I'll definitely start to to kind of implement.
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And that's a question I asked found at that stage is that are you trying to build a are you trying to be a fractional yourself or are you trying to build a business?
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Yeah.
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Because if you build a business, we're all clued into the fact that if you're doing the delivery and doing the sales, you are a you are a freelancer.
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Yeah.
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And I I think freelancers are founders in every single ilk of what they do because they have to run every element of a business.
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Yeah.
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But if you are wanting to scale beyond yourself, you are pigeonholing yourself because you do the delivery and sales.
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Yeah.
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The only way you can scale as predominantly a service, and I know we're heavily talking about service-led businesses here rather than consumer goods or anything, or tech.
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If you're in that situation where you are stuck doing selling a service, you will you will get caught in terms of just maximising your day rate, is what your option becomes.
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Yeah.
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And and you don't tend to see that until it happens.
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You kind of look back and you go, hell, how did this happen?
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Why is this business just me?
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So it's something that's you you see retrospectively that we should really see in our peripheral, really.
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It should be there, kind of hitting us in the face.
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And yet we do we tend to just, you know, grind through the days, and then you look back and you're like, Oh no, what happened?
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Where's my brand gone?
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Yeah, I've done six months of working here in-house because it looked great.
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And oh my god, I've not actually spent any time on the business or building the business.
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Yeah.
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And then you ask yourself, do I actually have a business?
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And is this the kind of stuff that you can help founders with as well at Fearless?
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Yeah, I mean, yeah.
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So we have um our academy has like a program which is designed for early stage businesses.
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Right.
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So we do everything, we kind of take them through a 12-week programme where we look at everything from legal, HR, finance, marketing, brand, all this kind of stuff where we this is one of the messages we have we have at home to people is like you ask have to ask yourself what do you want.
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And a lot of the people that work on that bus that come onto that course are freelancers and they they brand themselves as freelancers.
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And I my message is quite powerful.
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I don't think there's anything as such as a free freelancer, I don't think freelancers exist.
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I think the fractional work, the fractionalization of people is a really better position for people who are looking at doing that service model.
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But I ultimately believe that you are providing service to your business, you're a founder.
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Exactly.
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If you're a freelancer, you can put two people in front of each other, and this is where brand is like important, where someone positions themselves as a founder of a business which does X or a freelancer which does X, say content creation, they do exactly the same service, but one subconsciously has a much higher ceiling of how much they could charge a client than the other because the other that business knows freelancer X is gonna do the sales, the delivery, and the work with a founder.
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You know, well, there might be some kind of team in there, there might be some kind of process.
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So you're paying for something which is much bigger than just one person, yeah.
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And to come back to like full full 360 to like the days of like starting a company is you have to, and this is a discussion I just had with a founder that I've just been with today, not fake it till you make it, but you have to give emphasis of scale to make people believe that you are significant and wanting to be significant, and in no way do I endorse like you know a massive over overselling and over that, but you need to give like some scale of perception, and like from us from our journey, call it the business social chain and it being a business from day one and not just being two kids who are freelancers was a radical difference for us.
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Yeah.
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Okay, so you mentioned kids, so let's take it back.
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Um I was gonna start at uni because that's where you were when you had the first conversation with Steve and started social chain.
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But I want to go back a little bit further because I've struggled to find too much about you before that.
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Obviously, you were very young when you when you started the business.
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You're still still very young now.
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Um but I don't really know much about where you came from and and and your background prior to that.
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You obviously had a decent education because you were at uni at the time, but it wasn't you were not doing a degree that uh was preventing you from leaving and going starting up something on someone's couch.
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Um so I'd I'd love to know a little bit about the baby dom.
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Baby Dom.
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Yeah, not necessarily baby baby dom, but pre-uni Dom.
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What's most interesting?
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When's the most interesting?
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Um I'll tell you what, you know, when we spoke, Dom, you you agreed with me that you know a lot of the content that you've created, a lot of the podcasts that you go on, a lot of the hosts actually the same stuff.
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Yep.
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I'm gonna put my glasses on.
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Okay.
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So I just want to make sure I get this name right and I can't see without them.
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So you you um challenged me to ask you something that you hadn't been asked before.
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Yeah.
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So I went down a little bit of a wormhole.
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You might have me arrested now, but uh, I take my challenges very, very seriously.
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So do you remember the bambas?
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Yeah.
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Do you?
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Yeah.
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Let's let's talk about like firework nights and stuff and what life was like as a kid on firework night with your with your friends, the the the Bamba family.
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Let's start there.
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Yeah, so Sam is still one of my best friends.
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Like to this day, yeah, yeah, we're best, we're best friends.
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Uh he was one of the grooms, he was him and Steve were my kind of top groomsman of my wedding.
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Right.
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So yeah, my and me and Sam like were like we were like like yeah, we just up to see we're just kids.
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And where are you at this point?
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Are you in Manchester?
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I've been I'm in York, so I've been I've been yeah, I was best friends with Sam.
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Sam has been my best friend since we were four years old.
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We were in the same reception class, and um we grew up together, we played football together, we spent you spent our entire lives.
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And I think the interesting part about probably like where my life started to diverge from like normality is like at 11.
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Right.
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So I go to normal state school, no normal like primary school, like, and then um my older brother was getting bullied.
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Right.
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So really in the same school.
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In the same school, yeah.
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I didn't know about this, but he got bullied uh by girls.
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Right.
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Get teased got teased by girls a lot, and um he my parents made a promise to him that he's not gonna have to go to school with them for secondary school.
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So they started to look at taking him to private school.
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.119
So my older brother went to private school to GAWA, the system had been bullied.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:51.440
And then I had the option, whether uh I wanted to go to private school or whether I wanted to go to normal school, and did the going around schools and stuff, and I was very com I was very like very very popular, like not like quite popular because I played football, so I was very, very popular.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:59.680
And I um chose to go to private school, and one of the big reasons I did that was because like because I played football, I knew I wouldn't lose my friends.
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:06.640
Sam inclined, and um so we we would still socially hang out all the time, we play football every day.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:07.440
So Sam did it go.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:08.160
Sam didn't go.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:13.839
So I was the only person, I was the only person in my year to go to private school, to not go to the high school to go to private school.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:28.960
So that that I don't know whether that kind of made me feel like a little bit like better, but it it just it was kind of this first like sense of like, oh, I'm going to private school, I'm like, I'm just different, isn't it?
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:29.599
Yeah.
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:39.119
Um, but then what actually happens is so bear in mind still to this day, there's probably there's probably like a group of five of us who are all still really good friends, they're all my stagday, all on my wedding.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:41.359
Um, Adam, Sam, Jacob.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.960
I still they still we live on the same, we all all our parents live in the same houses.
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.400
We live like literally 500 metres away from each other back in York.
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.960
So like I see them all the time when I'm 11, 12, and my time is spent with them.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:59.359
So at so back at private school, I'm like the non-conformer.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.640
So I'm the one that has come from a yeah school, yeah, a normal school.
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.119
So like and does that make a difference?
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:07.680
It does.
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:10.400
So I'll tell you why it makes a difference, and this is this is gonna explain it.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.559
So it makes a difference because my dad was that kid as well.
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:13.839
Your dad's a GP, right?
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.519
Yeah, so my dad went to private school, right?
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:22.000
But he went to private school, so my granddad, so this is I think I mean written quite a lot, and I think my granddad's the two most influential people in my life.
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:38.799
So my dad's dad is was born in Glasgow in the 1930s, and grew up in the garbles, which is like notoriously the poorest part of Glasgow, which then had like one of the lowest life expectancies in the world, so like proper, like deprived area.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:50.720
He worked in a steel factory, and one Easter they basically said the factory's closing, so everyone's getting fired, and this was happening all around Glasgow, and like unemployment levels were ridiculously high.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:20:09.839
He got on a he had a side motorbike sidecar, so he got my gran, my auntie, who was born at the time, and drove down to Coventry on Easter Friday, spent the weekend knocking on doors to get factory workers to get a job in Coventry come Monday morning because he he knew if he stayed in Glasgow, he would not get a job.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.640
Any reason why Coventry was because it's where the other steel workers were.
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:12.799
Right.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:13.759
So for cars and stuff.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:14.480
Of course, yeah, yeah.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:16.400
So that's that's why they just went, we're gonna go there.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:16.880
Wow.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.799
So um great work ethic.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.920
Um this is where I get it from.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:20.799
Unbelievable.
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:26.160
So then he he um him and then my grand ended up working in the factories as well.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:33.599
So his big belief always was that um the only way out of where their situation was was education.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:43.920
So he would relentlessly make my dad and my other uncles read and like lessons and like basically drill into them that the only way you're gonna get out of the situation and change your life is through education.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.160
And my dad became went to private school because he got the scholarship space.
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:48.400
Right.
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.559
So he's a scholarship kid at private school, so he gets bullied as well because like he's the poor kid.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:53.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:56.079
He is he is properly the poor kid.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:02.799
I'm not the poor kid, yeah, because I'm there on merit, but I'm like the so he had that experience, went to university, great.
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.720
I felt like I had the experience, but I had the experience more from a social aspect.
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.039
Yeah, I played football with my mates that you know.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.759
I have friends outside of private school, and my private school friends were all.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.400
Yeah, so they're like looking tonight, you're like, I'm out of the house.
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.519
I'm out and playing football, I'm like living like a normal life.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.559
So they felt always slumming it down at the end.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:21.519
A little bit, yeah, yeah.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:30.000
And I remember I actually remember one year, like year eight, like it was like fancy dress and I came in like football game addresses a chaff, because like that's how like people people perceive me a little bit.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:42.240
Um but it built it built it what I think it made in me was a sense of like like like a little bit tough, a little bit sense of reassurance, and a little bit of sense of just like self confidence, maybe.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:42.559
Yeah.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.079
Because like I had like I had great social circles across the whole life.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:49.759
So every s every single firework day we'd go to the bambas and we'd have fireworks there.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:49.920
Yeah.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.480
And that was that like that, like I had a normal life.
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:52.960
Yeah.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.640
But then still went to private school.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:22:04.240
So um I and this will come into it a little bit, is like how do you have The confidence at 19 Strap at university to back yourself start a business.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.400
Well, I think the only way you do that is by never actually experiencing failure.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:15.599
Because you don't know You don't know how it feels you've got nothing in your mind which tells you this is going to be a bad idea.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.079
Yeah.
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:18.160
And that's what happened to me.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:31.359
I was absolutely I walked through my A levels, walked through my GCSEs, walked through life socially wise, like I never faced any problems, never faced real adversity, to be honest.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:43.839
Um and even when I went to university, my offer offer for university because Edinburgh University, bearing in mind I was told by every single person in my school, applying to Edinburgh University is a waste of application because nobody gets in.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:51.119
I suddenly get in and not only get get an offer but I get an offer of BBC which is a subsidised offer because it's they want me there.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:51.839
Right.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:59.359
And the the the person this in my life that's hurt hurt the most is my older brother.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:02.000
So my older brother's view is I've always landed on my feet.
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.240
I totally get where he's coming from.
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:06.000
It must be quite a hard lens.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.039
Are you close now?
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:08.240
Do you get on well?
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.200
I love him.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.079
Yeah.
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:15.680
That's that speaks for what he is, but I think, yeah, I but I I can totally see that from his perspective.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:16.960
I have the same with my brother.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:23.279
My brother is one of those people who just like lands in, he's like, he'll fall in a pile of s and come up smelling of roses every every single time.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:31.039
And I'm the black sheep, and all I've ever done is work, and yet he just seems to be like But it goes the opposite way because Sam, Sam would say the same.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:31.359
Right.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.799
But Sam's one of four.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.240
Sam's one of four as well, yeah.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.039
But we're still so he's the second, we're all the same, we're literally all the same age as well.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.880
Oh I'm one of four, he's one of four.
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:39.039
Right.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:40.000
And we're all the same age.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:43.200
That's how we became friends because our parents were friends with each other.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:43.680
Right, okay.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:45.680
Um, because they're all like kids the same age.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:59.920
So we were we were both a second, and he he would say the same about me, and he is the only like one of the only people at my life's come through my life who at no point has ever got any sense of enviousness of what I've been through.
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:11.200
He is the only person, probably not the only person, probably one or two other people, but for the one of the my person I'm closest to who still sees me as that 10-year-old boy when we were at school, primary school together, having fun.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:17.920
Everyone else, even when I went to secondary school, I've become Dom who goes to private school, so they, you know, they didn't want anything to do with me.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:22.559
When I went left, dropped out of university, my university friends were like, You're dropping out of university, why are you doing that?
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:28.640
Even now, people I went to secondary school with kind of like, well, whatever you know, you are who you are.
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:34.799
He's the only person that has, and I do believe has known me for that entire time and has never changed his view on me.
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:35.200
Yeah.
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:36.319
What a great friend.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.240
That's that's the mark of a friendship, though, right?
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:50.480
And that's why that's why you know friendships come and go, but I think a mark of a true friend is just having that very just that stagnant view of you, no matter what happens, no matter what's going on in your life, and that just never changes.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:59.519
That's very hard to come by, which is why you can most people could people, if they were challenged, could probably count their real friends on one hand, because that's very, very, very difficult to come by.
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:00.559
So I'm glad I asked you the question.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.079
Yeah, he's got fat to my son.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:02.960
Oh, is he?
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:03.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:12.480
I've I've I've been uh delving into the the the the Bomb Finites, and I thought, what a great place to start because you were a person before you did social chain.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:25.680
Yeah, and not only were you a person, but it also it all it there wasn't something radical that changed as soon as you joined Social Chain that made you into an entrepreneurial person or somebody who could do the things that you could do or had the talent.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:26.880
It was always there.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:33.920
You just brought it out, you just you had an opportunity at a very young age to for that for that to come out.
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:39.359
But I think most importantly, you had an opportunity and you hadn't I had no voice in my head.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.359
So I remember speaking to people who went to school, it was like, I was like, when did you first experience anxiety?
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:47.839
They were like, I remember this one girl specifically called called um Georgia.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.160
She was like, oh, 13, 14 years old.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.759
And she told me about English classes where she felt anxious about doing exams.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.960
And like I never, even at 19, that that self-doubt and voice in the head did not exist.
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.440
So let's double-click on that.
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:06.000
Is that your parents, or is that something that you've been born with?
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.319
I think I think it comes over time.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.039
Coming back to what I said there, I'd never never experienced failure.
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.480
You know, that that amplified over so like fail, of course I experienced failure.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:16.240
Like in sport, I lost football matches.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:17.599
Of course that happened all the time.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.400
I wouldn't get into um the the school boys local team.
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.880
I wouldn't I got kicked out of Leeds Um Football Academy because I wasn't good enough.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.799
So I experienced failure, of course I did.
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:35.039
But it in the macro world, none of it was ever like it was all near misses.
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:36.720
And this is how I see maybe this is how I see it.
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:38.160
It was nothing which was like crippling.
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:38.480
Yeah.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.039
So like I'd dust myself off and go on again.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:46.960
And maybe my my big view is that like maybe, and this is again a lot of this hindsight.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.000
I just I never was worried about people thought about things.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:56.799
Going back to being that kid who like probably got the the mick taken out of school a couple a bit too many times.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.799
I was never bothered about people's perceptions of things.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:05.279
So like that like idea of self, not just self-doubt, but like societal doubt of am I doing the right thing?
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:06.000
never existed.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:06.240
Yeah.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.519
So I come back to it and be like, entrepreneur at university, that's business.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:17.680
I don't care what society says, I don't care what my friend says, I don't care what my best friend at university, Olivia or Tabby, say that I'm making a big mistake.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.279
I feel like I'm okay doing it, so I'm going to do it.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:21.519
Yeah.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:31.279
And I think maybe some people would experience that societal pressure that I have to be on this journey, especially if their parents would spend thousands of pounds on education.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:32.559
That's what I was gonna say.
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:45.519
Like, so your dad has experienced really being the poor kid, but has had drilled into him that the way to get out of any bad situation or the way to make it in life is through education.
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.680
So he's a huge advocate for education.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:54.640
How did that go down at home when you said that you want to leave of a university that no everyone said you wouldn't get into in the first place?
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:55.920
Absolutely fine.
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.240
And I think it comes back to that they they they they backed me.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.000
And so all these things build up over time where it's like maybe I can do it.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:04.319
Yeah.
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:13.119
And like at no point did anyone people told me I was making the wrong mistake, the mistake doing it, but not many people told me I couldn't do it.
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:13.759
Yeah.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.039
And it was like, and this is how I probably felt is that well, I'll give it a go.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:19.519
Yeah.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:29.279
And I remember dropping out of university and like my cost level for life, I was renting a place in Leeds at the time,£500 a month is what I needed to live.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.640
So I was like, surely I can make£500 a month.
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.160
Like that's like, we have to be able to make that, otherwise, what's the point?
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.279
Oh, so you weren't at home?
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.359
No, no, so you had to pay for yourself straight for you.
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.000
Yeah, I had to do a little bit of survival there.
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.240
Right.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:59.680
Um bear in mind like the other side of it, the other side of it is like the coming back to the privilege and security banquet, like A, I knew I could go back to university a year afterwards if things weren't going well, and B, I knew if things were going well, I could take run run home with my like my tail behind between my legs and go back into my house.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.319
So like I do I do know I had privilege there.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:12.960
I wasn't like strung hung out to dry, and you know, you've got to figure it out, but I was definitely given a platform where you have the best opportunity to process it, go and go and do it.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.680
Absolutely.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.200
And you you're really validating a lot here for me as a parent.
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.640
My son's 17 and has just dropped out of college.
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:32.240
Um, and um he's very entrepreneurial, he's always you know, he's got 30,000 followers on TikTok and he's very much kind of just just really just always thinking of the next thing.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:46.400
And and and to be honest, most of what comes out of his mouth is total trash, but ultimately he he he may or may not find the thing that sticks because let's face it, not everybody that drops out of college to follow a dream is gonna end up having social chain, right?
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:54.880
A lot of them are either gonna have to go back to college or uni, go to the parents with the tail between the legs, or go and work in Tesco or do something else.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.240
Like they're not all gonna find so find uh social chain.
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:07.839
Um, but the the the point is not, oh, you might find this, like found this huge enterprise and be super successful at exit at what 27.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.200
Um sorry, bad research there.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:17.599
Um but the the the key thing is, and certainly as a as a parent, is to provide a safe environment.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:23.119
And I think that your safety net has probably been testament to a lot of the decisions that you've made.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.799
Um, and it you know it's it's it's massively paid off for you, right?
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:27.680
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:36.240
And I think the the the other interesting part about it is like the way timing play timing and look play a huge part about it.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:43.200
So, you know, going back to a 17-year-old right now, a lot of people want to drop out for the same reasons.
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:46.160
They want to either start a social account and become an influencer.
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.960
Like when we were 30, no one was dropping out wanting to start a social media like business.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:55.920
Like I remember saying to someone, I'm yeah, I'm gonna run a Twitter account full-time, and they were like, How is that a job?
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:58.960
Now it's like common knowledge, you know.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:01.119
Yeah, we all we all want little mini Mr.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.480
Beast, don't we, in our family?
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:03.519
Exactly.
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:24.720
So um what you what we what we it was almost reluctant because we'd created something which was new, and so that's where I think the differentiator comes is that um it was like a proper like element of innovation, yeah, rather than it being like okay, we're we're dropping out to do something.
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:29.119
So I think that's the piece I have to look back, and like that can only happen then, it can't happen now.
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:33.759
Yeah, if someone goes to university and drops out to start a social media business now, it's not a news story, yeah.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.519
It's just another person starting a social media business.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:57.119
Back then, when in a world where Twitter was like just starting and Facebook like the idea of a social media agency like didn't exist, so we were we were innovating, so actually that's when the whole thing became new, newsworthy and interesting because not only is there a social media agency that's doing new stuff, it's run by two young kids.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:58.319
Totally, totally.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:06.640
I went to a talk in Amsterdam uh 2018, 2019, and Steve was talking and it was absolutely groundbreaking.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.079
Yeah, groundbreaking.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.880
I was mesmerized, I was like, these guys are really like you they're they're really trailblazing here.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.880
So, but it's mad, isn't it, out of the time?
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:18.480
Because that's not that long ago, really.
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.440
And as you say, now everyone's an influencer and it's all used.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:21.920
Exactly.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:38.799
So, like, my challenge to people in that situation is like what like coming back to like that that that process I had about like convention and like me constantly get maybe taking the different path that what people were taking, where like now if you go and tell people I want to do that, it's that's becoming more convention.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.119
Yeah.
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:42.480
So my challenge to people is like, what is not conventional right now?
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.279
Yeah, what is the opposite route to what everyone's doing?
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:45.599
Yeah.
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.319
Because that's where the opportunity is, it's not where everyone else is going.
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:48.559
Yeah.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.920
And back where I when I was 18, everyone was going to university.
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:57.039
And you know, now everyone's talking about the student debt crisis and they're talking about graduates not being able to earn.
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.680
So like that that's where convention has led people.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:00.160
Yeah.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.400
People like who went on convention are trapped.
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:02.960
Yeah.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:10.559
Like, especially, well, I was the year before the fees went up, so the year afterwards, which is the new candle, those are the people that I feel sorry for for.
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:20.720
So then my question to people now is like, try and find unconventional roots because convention historically has never led to individual prosperity.
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:21.279
Yeah.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.319
Really good line.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.119
Love that.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:26.480
So we are in social chain, you've made the decision.
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:36.160
Everyone that's watched or listened to any of your content will know you basically got a tap on the shoulder from Steve, you two decided to join forces.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.279
That's kind of old news.
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:38.319
We know, we know that.
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.400
We know that you founded the business together.
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:54.240
Talk to me about that little bit of uh a pinchy time between deciding to do that, and you've you've made a lot of sacrifices at this point, uh, and I'm sure he had too, but um actually kind of going, do you know what?
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:58.559
And and and let's look at like the milestones that we look at now with your with your founders.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.880
How do they know we're onto something here?
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.359
Whether it's the first million quids with a pipeline.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:12.239
At what point did you go, or what was the journey like from like we're two kids to this is a business, we're a brand, we're gonna make some money here, guys.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:20.400
Um, so I think we we started the the journey of probably being like remote workers before people were remote workers.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:28.079
So we went to Thailand and we worked with people there where um you know we worked with one big client, Spotify, from being in being in Thailand.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:35.199
Then we went to Brazil for the World Cup and then we went to USA and we we were basically helping companies market without realizing that we were helping them market.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:43.840
So we were we were coming in as consultants, and our secret weapon was that we had all these social media pages behind us that they could use them to drive the marketing forward.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:51.119
And then I think um I don't know, I don't know who um well we had a name, so we had sorry, we had a name before then.
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:56.960
Um because we when we first needed to get cash, we basically created a brand that we were going to try and sell.
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:57.360
Right.
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.880
And where that's where the social chain came from because the logic was a chain of pages on social media.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:01.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:03.039
I remember that from the study's talk, actually.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:05.920
Yeah, so we we we that was where we that's how we came to the idea.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.559
Yeah, um, there's a discrepancy who came up with the name, but I personally think it was Ash Jones still.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.000
I'm convinced it was Ash Jones.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:13.280
My memory's pretty sharp.
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:18.400
Um, and that was what we we sold was we sold we sold the access to the social chain of pages.
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.719
Um, but then in doing so, that led us to conversations with founders about how they can grow their business.
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.440
So we kind of built a consultative piece off the back of the pages.
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:36.400
And the first kind of times that we felt like it was being successful was when we probably had um comfort in ourselves.
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:43.280
So when we're in Thailand and we wake up in the morning and we go on a moped and we go and swim, and that's kind of like, hey, this is pretty cool.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:50.239
This when we go to the World Cup, we can we can party on Copacabana and then run some social media pages in the afternoon.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.440
That's probably when we felt it.
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:51.760
Yeah.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:57.760
When we got like a worldwide trend during the World Cup final because of our pages, we go, this is pretty impactful.
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.079
Yeah.
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:07.840
So all these things you build up, and like I think the beautiful thing about it was, and this is how communities are built, and we inadvertently learnt this communities are built through authenticity.
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:08.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:12.079
So if you don't sell things, and this is why I think a lot of brands struggle right now.
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:17.199
I think every single brand should think like a media business, they should have like a community that they own and operate.
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.039
The only way to like build an authentic community is not to sell to people.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:27.440
Brands are too quick to put on their social media or to put on their um TikTok, buy now, buy now, buy now.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.559
So pushing a sales message talk to sales, talk to sales, yeah, all the time.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:36.320
Yeah, rather than cultivating an audience and community through powerful content.
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:36.639
Yeah.
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:41.440
What we did is because we had nothing to sell, we just built community over and over and over again.
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:47.519
You know, years of building channels and building, we built a community, we built community about because we had nothing to sell, we could just create content.
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:47.840
Yeah.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.440
So we built um massive communities because of that.
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:58.480
And then we were able to start selling them because we could go to a brand and say, hey, we can get things trended on Twitter.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:36:58.960
Yeah.
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:13.840
So for me, like the first kind of the two moments, the one where it was like, hang on, this is quite powerful, is when we're we're in Silicon Valley and we're at a company called Monkey Inferno, um, a guy called Sean Piori, who now runs my first million, big podcast, amazing guy.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.920
He watched us make something trend worldwide during the World Cup final.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:18.719
Right.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:22.239
And he's like, This is pretty powerful.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:22.719
Yeah.
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:24.559
And we didn't, we just this is what we did for fun.
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.119
We've done more of our trends before, so we're like, for us, this was normal.
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.760
So that was like point one, we're like, maybe we should take it seriously.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:39.280
Our client at the time then offers an investment, and we we we spent a lot of time, Steve and I, whether we're deciding to do it or not, ended up deciding to do it.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:40.800
That was point one.
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:49.679
That was kind of like a really short, like month, two month period, and then point two was when BuzzFeed come came to us and were like, You say you can make things trend, do it.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:58.880
And literally the guy came in and was like, You've been on stage making the claim you can make anything than one trend in the UK within half an hour, do it.
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:03.519
Got his phone out pretty much, but plus time on a stopwatch, and was like, go on then.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.880
What was your next move?
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.400
Well, we loaded up the computers, loaded up the tree jack, and we tried to make something trend.
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:09.360
And did it work?
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:10.719
Yeah, we did it in 24 minutes.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.360
Did you?
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:15.519
And like he was coming with the mindset of writing an expose.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:19.679
But in reality, he had to validate the fact that what we said was true.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.119
Could you do that now, do you think?
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.440
No, no, could you do that now?
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.639
Um I'm not gonna challenge you on it, by the way.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:28.639
I could personally, but could someone do that now?
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:34.800
Is it too crowded or could someone do that now?
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:35.760
Great question.
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:37.440
I don't know.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.719
I think they are I think not that it's too crowded, I just think there's too much going on in the world.
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.000
Like news happens in there.
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:47.599
So like what we had was like we had enough infantry on social to be able to make that happen.
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:49.360
No one has that penetration anymore.
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:55.760
What you what gets trending now is you probably could, you probably could.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:00.000
You need a lot of money in the right thing because we've seen things a million times now.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.440
So it'd be harder, but I think probably still possible.
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:04.079
Yeah.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.400
So that was the next moment, and like after that, that was put on BuzzFeed.
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:18.480
We got like Disney, 20th Century Fox, Nike, all these amazing brands coming to us being like, hey, it's it sounds like you know what you're doing when it comes to marketing to young people.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:19.119
Can you help us?
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.440
Yeah.
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:21.920
And that was like the next inflection.
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:46.800
So throughout this, there's a lot of I suppose a lot of challenging days, but it's sounding like a like a bit of an awesome journey as well, with some massive moments and like celebratory moments that you know, as someone that's sold software and done enterprise sales, I can only like imagine that the feeling of selling to some of these brands that you were selling to must have been a hundred times some of the celebrations that I've had.
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.320
And yet, I party when something goes well, like I know how to celebrate a deal.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.280
So you probably see where I'm going with this now.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:22.880
Um I your kind of journey around, you know, alcohol and and and that kind of thing, um, has kind of, and and and obviously you've written about this, you've been very open about this, but has kind of been linked very much to the the darker times, the clash flow cash flow crises, the challenges we find as founders when we're running a business and you know it's so stressful, it's so stressful, it's so stressful, I'm gonna, I'm gonna mask, I'm gonna mask, I'm gonna mask.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.480
Was was that the do you think that was the catalyst for that?
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:29.840
Or actually was it that there was just so many great moments?
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:32.320
Like, which do you think really drove that?
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:38.639
I think coming back to like my starting journey is that when my brother turned 18, I turned 18.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:40.239
And he never went out, I always went out.
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:41.920
So I had his ID for when I was 18 years old.
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.320
Even before that, me and Sam would used to go out all the time.
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.400
So like And how old were you really?
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:47.599
16.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:47.920
Right.
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:50.079
I've been I've been I've been going out to nightclubs since I was 16.
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.920
Me and Sam were going out to nightclubs since we were 16.
00:40:52.159 --> 00:41:00.400
And like we we used to, me and Sam used to have a joke, it'd be like Sam and Don plus one nights, and we'd go out on time every single time I got out, like on my memories, there's like tons of photos of us out.
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:06.159
So I again coming back to adversity, I'd never experienced any negative areas of drinking.
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:08.639
I'd go out and have a great time, I'd wake up in the morning.
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:12.559
I never got lost, I never got in a fight, I never like was in danger at any point.
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:19.440
So, like for me, like my like relationship with our course formed really young, really early that it was just part of my life.
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:24.800
Like, I remember I also won at school, secondary school, most likely to be drunk drunk right now because I just go out all the time.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.800
And I had this ability again, just to bounce back as you do as a young person and be functioning and actually fine in school.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.239
And that was just that was just how I was.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:44.400
Took that to university as well, would just go out all the time, have fun, was in the football team, socialise, was great, and and never learn probably like deep, deep down, like how to manage my emotions.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:54.559
So, like I, as we all do, go through things like breakups, go through bad times, and I my solution for that when I was younger would just be have a drink and get over it.
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.039
Right.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:06.000
And when life is like not stressful, like breakups when you're 18 happen, it's not like this is these aren't real problems, these are fake problems, these are not like at the time it feels like your biggest problem, but it's not a real problem.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:15.599
If you deal with it that and then you go out and get drunk and have a nice time and you get over something, you you might get over something, but you never actually learn a proper coping mechanism.
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:25.199
So, like my like immaturity of like how to deal with emotions was drinking it'll go away because that's what I'd learn my entire life from like these little things.
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.960
So I'd also learn drink, have a fun time, celebrate, and have a party.
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:44.000
So I think those two things combine together where you you become so like almost like dependent, or like you associate the two things so strongly that when things are great you drink, and when things are bad, you drink.
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:57.599
And you actually, and I actually the problem I think the fundamental disproblem I had was I was unable to deal with my emotions and my situation, so my anxiety, my depression, my like my like imposter syndrome.
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:04.480
That the only way I knew how to deal with these things was to like drink and recluse and escape.
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:12.159
So actually, like my my my fundamental problem wasn't the alcohol, the alcohol was my medicine.
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:19.360
My fundamental problem was like inability to deal with emotions, which manifests itself through alcoholism.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:30.400
So through your journey now in sobriety, you've removed the medicine, but what have you done about the symptoms themselves in the absence of that medicine?
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:31.920
Well, let's take anxiety, for example.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:33.119
Why does anxiety occur?
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:35.360
Anxiety occurs when someone's worried about the future.
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:43.760
Okay, you're overthinking things, you're analysing situations that are not gonna happen because somebody feels like it's outside of your control.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:44.719
Take cash flow.
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:56.719
If you have a full grasp of it and understand what's coming in and what's going, and you understand from a model perspective, for example, that what a business is gonna look like or what your personal finance are gonna look like, that anxiety gets removed because you know the facts.
00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:57.119
Yeah.
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.599
If you're speculating, that's when that happens.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:07.440
Depression, in my mind, my view of depression, it comes when you feel like your self-worth is very low.
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:15.599
So you are becoming your own worst enemy and you're talking yourself down where actually you then don't want to do something and you create a massive spiral which makes life worse for you.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:42.159
If you learn to love yourself and you actually see that what makes you happy isn't something which is external or which which isn't something which needs to be put on to you from somebody else, but it's in your own control, and you can find that in the like smallest of things, or the the the something which is so unique to you that makes you happy that actually that is happiness, you will no longer get depressed.
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:43.440
Imposter syndrome.
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:54.559
If you you know again, if you feel like you walk into a room and you deserve to be in that room and you are comfortable with who you are, the two things link with depression slightly, I think, then you don't have experience imposter syndrome.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:45:01.840
So for me, what removing alcohol did was allow me to learn my views on those things and deal with the problems that I was facing.
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:15.440
So alcohol wasn't really a medicine, it was a blocker to the real antidote, which is just facing up to things and and learning how to deal with them without having this kind of um escapism, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.880
Yeah, but the problem is the thing about alcohol is that you don't win another contract when you're pissed.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:21.519
Yeah.
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:25.679
No one ever goes out because to celebrate an Amazon and then wins another Amazon that night.
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:25.920
Yeah.
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:34.159
What happens when you're drunk is you mess up your relationships, you do something stupid, which like then reduces your self-worth.
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:42.559
You you actually feed your brain with poison, which makes you like want to kill yourself and question who you are as a person and is a depression.
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.000
So that's what alcohol does.
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.159
It just makes every single situation worse.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.239
It doesn't make things better, you know.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:53.119
Yes, there's some stories of people go out and they they fall in love with a person they meet, but that's an anomaly.
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:59.440
Like the average night out, you get no sleep, you fill yourself with a toxin, you eat terrible food.
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:01.280
The next day you feel even worse.
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:04.559
That's not trending upwards, that's trending downwards.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:10.159
So when you've got everything already on top of you pushing you down, and you're putting this fuel into it, you're only going to get lower.
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:10.639
Yeah.
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:13.280
So removing that is the only way to improve.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:16.880
And what would you say to you work with a lot of founders now?
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.719
I'm assuming that they're not all sober.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:19.199
Yeah.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.360
Um, and some will have different relationships.
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:34.320
So some will have a relationship with alcohol similar to the one that you had, and you're best placed to advise them how to remove that from their lives and get rid of that because that's not going to serve them and they're not going to be successful.
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.639
Some will have a much more balanced relationship with alcohol.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:45.039
You obviously feel quite strongly about the effects of alcohol on people, founders, etc.
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:51.679
How do you converse with those that uh have much more of a balanced view?
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:55.519
Do you do you still say actually there's no such thing and you need to get that out of your life?
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:59.920
No, I think I think you answered the question yourself in the way you you you put it to me.
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:03.119
Which is you described it as a relationship.
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:05.440
And not many people do that.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:12.320
And you're self-aware enough to know it's a relationship, and a relationship requires management, it requires checking on whether it's healthy or not.
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:19.119
And my view to people is that actually you should view alcohol or you should question whether your relationship with alcohol is healthy.
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:19.440
Yeah.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:20.880
The same we do with anything.
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:29.599
So I think my view, my view on it is that my question I ask people is like, not should you drink or do you drink and why why do you drink?
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:32.159
It's like, do you think you have a healthy relationship with alcohol?
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:32.400
Yeah.
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:36.960
And if someone can answer me that question, yes, without a shadow of a doubt, think about it, I'm fine.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:37.360
Yeah.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.119
Because everyone's different.
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:46.000
But my my view is that I want everyone to think about rel alcohol in terms of a relationship.
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:46.480
Yeah.
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:47.840
It should be the same with everything.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:51.840
Work, your friends, your your actual relationship, your partner.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:52.320
Yeah.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:48:00.480
Um, it's if it's not serving you and it's actually making you sad, but this is the ping people can't people can't self-reflect.
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:07.360
These are the these while it sounds so easy for me to say that to you, like, do you have a healthy relationship with alcohol?
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.960
To some people that's their darkest fear of question that ever asked themselves.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:15.440
The whole self-improvement thing, yeah, it only comes from asking you to solve these questions.
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:20.480
And like, you know, we're all humans, yeah, we all have things we hide.
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:24.880
Like there's no people that know each other a hundred percent, you know.
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.039
We all have little things that we, you know, deepest, darkest thoughts, yeah.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:35.679
And it's very hard to bring these things to your forefront and say, I need to do something about that.
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:36.239
Yeah.
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:38.320
And it tends to be an addiction, you know.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:46.639
I was speaking to Holly, um, who's my social producer, and she was telling me about someone she knew who had a gambling issue, and the gambling issues are so common.
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.400
Um, I don't know whether I'll have to edit this out, but can we can I tell us, Holly?
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:51.440
Okay.
00:48:52.000 --> 00:49:03.199
Um she was saying that someone she knew's partner moved in together, had a gambling problem, and then you know, said basically at the moment it was found out, changed, ran away.
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:07.199
Yeah, and um no one no one knew that he had a gambling problem.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:11.599
So, like we all we all have gone through things in life where we've hidden things close to us.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:15.360
Um, but these are the questions we need to ask ourselves, and for some people it's so hard to ask.
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.960
It is, and it it's it's the same with human relationships as well.
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:24.079
So many women that I've known that are suffering from abuse at home don't talk about it.
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:24.639
Yep.
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:41.760
Um, and so I suppose any relationship, whether it's with a drink, whether it's with gambling, whether it's with a person or an individual, um, yeah, if it's if it's a toxic, unhealthy relationship, then we're almost instinctively ashamed.
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.239
And you're ashamed and you've got to admit you've failed.
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:44.559
Yeah.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:45.920
And that is the hard part.
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:51.840
And this is something I feel strongly about, and it's like with men, for example, men do not want to admit they've failed.
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:59.199
So the reason male alcoholism and suicide become such a hard part, such a large like association is because men don't want to accept they've failed.
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:06.400
And I think going back to like my narrative of like never failing, that's what led me to drinking.
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.280
Yeah, I'd never admit I'd failed because it was a stra like for me, it was a sign of strength.
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:23.039
Being able to down a pint was like a sign of strength and popularity, and like the biggest thing I've learned in through the whole thing is like you can just accept you failed throughout this whole process, it actually makes it easier.
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.119
It's quite endearing to people as well.
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.320
When you when you know I think admitting that you failed is is it makes you more human, right?
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.199
This is this is what entrepreneurs mean when they say fail more.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:38.400
Yeah, it because yeah, this is that's that is my saving grace.
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.000
I am so happy.
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.840
Uh, because I like in in reflection, I wouldn't be an alcoholic at some point.
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:48.480
But the reason that it happened so early is because my life circumstances accelerated all.
00:50:48.719 --> 00:51:02.639
You put me in a you put anyone in a situation where a year ago they're at university, they've got 3 pm lectures and they miss a 3 pm lecture because they're in bed hungover, to a year later having a team of 20 staff manage an investment and cash flow.
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:13.280
There is no you show me any person who can go through that in that rapid growth in a period of time and not break, I'll be impressed.
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:13.679
Yeah.
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:20.159
The the people, the young entrepreneurs you hear about are always ones that are always and I this is the thing, I wasn't the entrepreneurial kid, I wasn't selling tweets at school.
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:24.480
Steve was was more like that, you know, his story about bringing vendor machines into the school.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:26.159
Like he was always thinking about this.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:35.599
For me, I was just a normal person and it became a business, and that that stretch of growth, like he had like you know, he he was 19, we were both 19, but he might have had six years more experience than me.
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:41.760
Yeah, yeah, which is a massive amount of experience, and he's probably hardwired like that as well, whereas you're wired in a slightly different way, exactly.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:45.280
Yeah, which is one of the reasons why we worked, but also one of the reasons why I broke.
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:46.880
It's because I was never wired for that.
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:55.440
Yeah, so that's what they mean by like that's what I've always interpreted by fail fast, is like because you be the reason I am an example of what happens when you fail.
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.559
And so it's a good thing, it's a good thing, yeah.
00:51:58.639 --> 00:51:59.440
And are you happy now?
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:00.719
Oh, yeah, yeah, unbelievably.
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:01.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:02.320
I know what makes me happy.
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:05.599
I know the biggest thing about it is I've I've learned myself and know myself.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:16.400
Yeah, and that that's the biggest change, is that I remember sitting there the first weekend of like thinking to myself, I'm not gonna drink alcohol, and asking to myself, what what do I do?
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:22.960
And what does someone who's 23 years old who doesn't drink do on a weekend?
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:27.199
It's so the prime drinking time of your life as well.
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:28.079
For their life.
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.039
Like I literally just yeah, I'm single.
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:31.760
What do I do?
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:33.280
What does my life look like?
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:37.599
And like I couldn't like scarily enough, I couldn't answer that then.
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:40.960
And it felt like terrifying.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:42.719
Now I'm like, God, how stupid's that person.
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:44.320
Yeah, you found some to do, though, didn't you?
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:45.760
I found some things to do, yeah.
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:55.920
But that's the thing, that's how it clouds you because um whenever you becoming, you know, and it was a community because we go out and we see the same people, we go to the same places, it was a habit.
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:09.119
When you're in that world or any community or any group of people where everyone's behaviour is the same, to remove yourself from that situation and be like, Well, I'm gonna go different is not normal.
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.599
And thankfully, my entire life I'd done that.
00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:18.480
Yeah, so when I did that from year 11, from being 11 to 12 and going to secondary school, I was removing myself from my friendship group and said, I'm gonna go somewhere different.
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:25.280
When I started going to Edinburgh University and all my mates were taking gap years on going to other universities, I was like saying, bye-bye, I'm gonna go this way.
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.639
When I was at university and dropped out and started a business, I was like, see you later, I'm going this way.
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:28.880
Yeah.
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:31.920
When I said to everyone around me, I'm not going drinking, I'm going this way, I was like, see ya.
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:33.920
So I was thankful that's changing your environment.
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:34.800
I've done it.
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:39.360
I'd I've I I was able to I've in my life I've been able to walk away from something and know it's not the end.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:39.519
Yeah.
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:57.840
So going back to what we talked about with Sam is that knowing at 11 years old that you're leaving your best mate and going on a completely different path to go into second different school to him, but knowing that that change doesn't impact you, yeah, is probably what got me out of drinking.
00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:58.079
Yeah.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:53:59.840
Because I think he's your constant, right?
00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:09.599
He's your even that logic of like just because I'm saying bye to all my friends, I go and drinking, yeah, or like Steve even Steve going out or doesn't mean I'm I'm leaving them.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:09.920
Yeah.
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:11.760
Our relationship might change, but they're still gonna be there.
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:12.960
Yeah, you're in a different room, yeah.
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:21.280
I've had so much experience of doing that that it was probably a piece on me where I was like, well, people just like will like me for who I am.
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:30.639
So it doesn't matter if I go to private school and my friends go to another school, or it doesn't matter what's up at university or start or start a business, it doesn't matter if I drink or not drink, they'll still be there.
00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:33.760
And if they're not, they were shouldn't they were just part of that environment.
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.159
Exactly.
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:34.800
Not part of it.
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:35.360
Exactly.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:41.920
So I've I learned that the non-conventional route was always the answer for me, and drinking and stopping drinking was the non-conventional route.
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:43.679
Yeah, love that.
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.760
I think we've really kind of we've gone all the way back to baby dom.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:55:00.639
I'm so glad that I asked you about Sam and the and the family because actually what I didn't get from listening to content of yours previously was how much of uh an important part of your life that family and and and Sam were.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.840
So I'm really glad that I've I rooted that out of the bin.
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:16.800
Um, but yeah, I I I I feel like we've really got to know you, and what I'd love to finish on is for you to have a think about, and none of this is pre-scripted, so I'm totally putting you on the spot here.
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:24.800
But you are known predominantly for two things, which is social chain and sobriety.
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:30.239
Those are your two pillars, shall we say, and that is somehow by design as well.
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:32.079
I'm so glad you didn't say trains.
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:32.559
No.
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:34.239
Because some people put trains.
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:34.880
Okay.
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.239
Well, those are the two pillars that I kind of built.
00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:43.920
And and and and that's by design as well, because you you want to be, you know, you've written books on this stuff, you want to be known for this.
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:48.639
So it's not like people are trying to pigeonhole you or anything, it's it is very much by design.
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:56.400
But what I'd really like to know today, and we always finish on like what's next and what's the future, but actually, what do you want to be known for now?
00:55:57.440 --> 00:55:59.840
Um now or in the future?
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:00.639
Both.
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:02.559
What are your hopes and dreams now?
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:10.239
Yeah, like the big the big piece now, like, is that I want to be known as the person who helps give opportunity to young people to get into the industry.
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:19.519
So James was built off a bunch of 16-year-olds, 19-year-olds doing things differently, and I've seen firsthand how you put a young person into a company and it changes the way you think.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:31.360
I think every company should have a some form of youth board or youth member on their senior exec team because the the what's happening is that the older a board gets, the quicker technology goes, the slower they can have to adapt to it.
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:41.039
So having a 25-year-old who is in the the cultural centre of the world, the technological centre of the world, being able to help shape the direction that company is going in is ridiculously important.
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:42.159
So, how do you do that?
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:54.480
Well, you you start off by getting young people interested in work from a young age, you get them Saturday jobs, you get them part-time jobs, you get them learning the value of money, and you get them desiring the fact they want to get into companies so that they can make a difference.
00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:03.039
How you do that from a company perspective is making sure you have things like the apprenticeship levy in place to help young people get into jobs that is unique for them.
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:11.440
So the problem we've got at the moment with the wage crisis is that hiring an 18-year-old out of out of school is the same as hiring a 21-year-old out of university.
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:13.679
There's not much difference that when it comes to the cost of the employer.
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:20.239
So you've got, and I had this experience the other day, you go into a pub, which used to be full of the young people working there as a temporary basis.
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.800
Every single person in the pub that worked there was a 30-year-old guy.
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:25.679
And that's because there's nowhere for them to go.
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:36.320
So they're stopping young people getting into that job and work experience because the pubs have closed, there's less people there, and they always that want to stay in the pub trade, and now 30-year-old men who want to work in a pub.
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:36.800
Yeah.
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:47.920
So, like for me, youth opportunity doesn't start at 21 when you're a graduate, it starts at a young age, work experience, 14, 13, even at school, experience in the industry and see what it looks like.
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:51.599
So that's what I want to be known for is like helping shape that.
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:56.559
Uh, and then secondly, I want to be a good dad.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:58.800
Yeah, I think that's a very important feature.
00:57:58.960 --> 00:57:59.760
It's a really important thing.
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:01.679
I want to be I want to be a good dad.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:08.400
I think if I can do those two things in the youth piece, obviously I kind of put like investing in founders and helping them grow because that's like the whole premise of it.
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:08.639
Yeah.
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.920
But if I can if I can be a good dad, that'll be a massive success.
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:21.760
Yeah, I think uh it's it's if we can be good parents and and raise useful humans who have good morality.
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:23.679
Yeah, and do you know what the two things are linked?
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:26.880
I'm I'm sat there thinking, Adam, because I've got uh how old are you now, one?
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:29.280
Um he ain't gonna have a job.
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:34.960
If I really critically think about it, he's not gonna have a job in the sense of what we know is a job.
00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:42.719
Um he needs to do something which is like really like hobby first.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:50.559
Yeah, because we're talking like 15 years away or 13, 14 years away before he starts to get into So what the hell is the world gonna look like?
00:58:50.880 --> 00:59:01.039
He's not gonna like I if I have the mentality that he's not gonna have a job, like is a traditional sense, he's not gonna go to an office, I don't think he's gonna go to like an office and like work on a computer.
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:06.239
I need to think about how I raise him and what he does to be able to make sure that his life is fulfilling.
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:18.000
It's really interesting because we've been conditioned through schools and parents to you know control screen time and all of that stuff, and it's like, well, where's the where do you draw the line?
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:28.320
Because what you don't want is for your kids to come out of high school with a few GCSEs with no ability to use any social media platforms or know how anything works.
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:29.760
So I disagree with this.
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:31.840
I didn't start social media platforms until I was 18.
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:33.360
I turned out alright.
00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:40.559
Well, I mean, the world that we're in now, it's like that's but you don't need to have it doesn't have to be wired into you from the age of three.
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:42.719
What are you gonna do with your son?
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:47.519
No screen time, no screen time, outdoor, outdoor hobbies.
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.239
I I don't I will not mind Monday, badminton, Tuesday, swimming, Thursday.
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:53.519
Like that's how I was honestly.
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:55.360
I it's very tiring, I'm gonna warn you.
00:59:55.760 --> 00:59:57.039
Oh, it's absolutely exhausting.
00:59:57.360 --> 00:59:59.679
I know it is, but yeah, but I think that's more important.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:01.840
I would like that's what I think.
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:06.480
Like, my view is that I didn't learn computers until I was 17, 18.
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:07.840
I figured it out.
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:11.280
It doesn't yeah, I wasn't technologically behind anyone.
01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:17.280
So them starting on phones later is not gonna leave them behind.
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:18.639
Yeah, I just don't know.
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:29.039
I I feel like there's just so much, even for them as a as a from a social perspective, for them to feel like they fit in, you know, there's so many different things going on that you're trying to manage.
01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:32.000
You'll feel like you fit in.
01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:44.880
If just again, this is from my background in football, if you've got friends and people respect for you for who you are through sport, and you know that you see people and you get validation that way, you're not gonna worry about what what the group chat's saying on a Tuesday night.
01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:47.039
Great points to finish on.
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:50.480
That's that's that I yeah, I'm starting to see that more and more.
01:00:50.800 --> 01:01:03.280
You know, I think that that is my view, is that and I I think I feel bent, I feel grateful that whenever my kids turn to me and say, Well, I can't go on social media, I can tell them.
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:05.119
What will you answer, B?
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:09.119
Well, what's the debate to someone like their dad's an entrepreneur from social media?
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:11.440
I'll say you can use it when I used it.
01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:15.199
I just don't know how they can debate with me about it.
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:18.400
Yeah, it's gonna be I'm trying to debate with you about it, and I'm trying to use it.
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:20.639
I just don't know how they can say I'm wrong.
01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:23.679
Yeah, I just don't know how I just don't know what their argument is, but all my friends are on it.
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:25.519
Well, did their parents build social media companies?
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:25.679
No.
01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:28.400
Oh damn you, darling, you definitely got it.
01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:30.960
I've got the I've this, I've got the trump card of debate.
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:34.400
You have because I can just say I know about it.
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:34.880
Yeah.
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:36.559
I I didn't have you can have it when I had it.
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:37.119
How old is that?
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:37.599
18?
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:38.000
Yeah.
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:40.480
Well I'm gonna get left behind and you not look at me.
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:45.840
Like, and I feel privileged to be able to Yeah, you do you are in a privileged situation.
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:51.679
I feel privileged to be able to have that conversation in a rational way where I can explain it, yeah, and they can't argue back at me.
01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:54.800
They will argue back, I know I'm ruining their lives, that kind of thing.
01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:57.119
Yeah, but I say never ruin my life, yeah.
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.840
And they have they hopefully they have to accept it.
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:00.639
Hopefully.
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:02.800
Well, you've got a rough ride on your hands.
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:07.840
I don't envy you, but I'm sure hopefully it will, you know, you'll i everything will work out.
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:09.119
And I suppose it is the thing.
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:10.559
I'm too bit maybe I'm a bit illogical.
01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:11.679
I'm not not thinking about it.
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:21.440
I think being a parent is it's it's probably the most illogical thing because you just you just don't know what the day is gonna bring, you don't know what what how your child is gonna be.
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:27.280
So I always just you know, I like to plan everything, I overprepare everything, I like to know what what I'm gonna be doing.
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:29.679
A love forecast, it's what I do, the job that I do.
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:37.360
Um, and I've had three children now, and I've each one has been completely different and it just surprises the hell out of me every day, but in a wonderful way.
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:41.679
Um, so yeah, I'm I'm I'm excited for you that you've that you've got all that to come.
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.000
But I really hope because if I've got a trump card, you're right.
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:44.480
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.199
It will find it.
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:46.159
In this area.
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:50.400
I don't know what to say, so he's not gonna know what to say either, because like there's no argument with it.
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:56.639
So um I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes and whether you manage to uh to stick to your guns.
01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:57.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:57.519 --> 01:02:57.679
Yeah.
01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:03.519
I mean it's the one area where I might lose every single debate, but I think this is what this this one I'll win.
01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:04.480
I think you might.
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:11.119
Because my wife also works at social chain as well, so she I was gonna say actually, have you got have you got backup because you're gonna need it, mate?
01:03:11.360 --> 01:03:12.639
I've got backup, I got backup, yeah.
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:13.039
Good.
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:13.760
I got backup.
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:16.239
Well, that's really important as well, working as a team.
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:16.480
Yeah.
01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:18.880
Um, it's it's it's very much underrated.
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:22.960
It sounds like you've got a good team both at work, at home, and everywhere else as well.
01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:30.639
I'm so happy for you that you're able to tell such a an amazing story at such a young age, and I'm sure that actually things are just kind of.
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:33.599
Young.
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:41.519
But I kind of feel like even though you've got so much to say, Dom, and that you've been through so much, I kind of get a sense that you're just getting started.
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:42.719
We'll see, yeah.
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:56.000
There's I've got, like I say, there's there's big ambitions, and I feel like I feel like the most important thing for me at the moment is like I'm in a my plan has always, well, since I've kind of, you know, or my my mindset has been social chain has been my start.
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:56.480
Yeah.
01:03:56.639 --> 01:04:01.039
And then I consciously started a business which had a bit more of a light hell orientation.
01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:09.519
So like I've in the last kind of five years, I've got married, bought a house, had a kid, another kid's on the way.
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.000
And hang on a minute.
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:14.400
So you've got to get two of them off the screens.
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:19.920
Oh so yeah, I might have to get math at that one out, but it depends when it goes out.
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:20.239
Yeah.
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:25.039
But um, I've consciously set my life up in a way where my office is ten minutes away from where I live.
01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:27.440
I've put lifestyle first for a period of time.
01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:32.239
I have, I think in my life, two, maybe two more free iterations of what I want to do.
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:40.000
And the next one I I I think is the one I'm getting the most set on that I'm going to do.
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:47.039
And it requires it is probably the same effort and energy running a company, and I know how much that takes.
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:50.480
So it's been nice to have feel like a bit of a mini break.
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:58.320
Obviously, we've been doing a lot, but knowing that what what I want to do next is going to be very emotionally draining.
01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.000
So you're tooling up, you're getting ready for the next big thing.
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:02.480
Yeah.
01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:10.079
Well, hopefully you'll talk to us about it at some point in the future, because I'm really curious now.
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:14.480
Um, but for this session, I think we're pretty much done.
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:18.000
Um, I'm so grateful that you're just such an open book.
01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:19.760
I found you so easy to talk to.
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:24.480
Um, and I'm sure that this will be a source of massive motivation and inspiration to people.
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:26.880
Um, you're pretty accessible, right?
01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:29.519
You're all over socials, you're on LinkedIn.
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.400
If people want to connect with you, what is the best way for them to do that?
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.920
Yeah, Instagram, hit LinkedIn, drop me a DM.
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:36.960
You cool with that?
01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:38.000
Very cool with that, yeah.
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:41.039
Normally I pimp every founder out, but I didn't know whether I was allowed to with you.
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:42.079
Pimp me, yeah.
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:42.880
Anything, yeah.
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:43.440
Amazing.
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:44.559
That's so kind, thank you.
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:45.840
And um, thank you for coming on.
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:47.119
Thank you for having me.
00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:05.200
How do you have the confidence at 19 to be at university to back up sort of stuff business?
00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.839
And like I never even at 19, that self-developed and voice in the head did not exist.
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:16.960
Today I'm joined by Dominic McGregor, founder of Fearless Adventures, and somebody who has very, very openly shared his journey.
00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:19.120
Non-conventional route was always the answer for me.
00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:20.719
And stopping drinking was a non-conventional route.
00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:21.280
We didn't exist.
00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:26.800
Yeah, we did it in 24 minutes.
00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:33.119
Dominic McGregor, I feel a little bit nervous today.
00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:42.320
Um because my my question to the team when they were said about you coming on the show was why does he want to come on my podcast?
00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:47.920
Like you are so well known, you've been on so many shows, people know so much about you.
00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:52.000
Um that I started to I got a little bit of uh of the nerves.
00:00:52.240 --> 00:01:02.640
But actually, I've been watching your stuff, I've been doing some research into who you are and what you stand for, and I've gone from feeling nervous to like super excited to have you here.
00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:04.400
So thank you so much for joining me.
00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:05.040
No problem.
00:01:05.439 --> 00:01:09.120
I think what you just said there is probably probably one of the best intros and compliments I've ever had.
00:01:09.200 --> 00:01:10.079
So thank you.
00:01:10.239 --> 00:01:10.799
I appreciate that.
00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:12.159
No, and it's all true.
00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:16.480
Anyone that knows me will tell you that I am to my detriment sometimes very genuine.
00:01:16.640 --> 00:01:19.519
Um, but no, it is it is fantastic to have you.
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:21.439
I have a challenge today.
00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:32.719
Um, this is found as stories, and therefore, my job for the listeners and the watchers is to delve into your story, who you are, where you came from.
00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:44.159
99% of people that sit on that chair, no one knows who they are, and they're really interested in their journey, their childhood, their education, their first jobs.
00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:48.879
Most people know who you are and know the things that you stand for.
00:01:49.120 --> 00:01:58.480
So my challenge was to try and almost weave in and out of what people really know about you and and really delve a little bit deeper.
00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:02.959
Um, and also what I'm keen to talk about today is what you're doing now.
00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:10.639
Because, with all respect, that I find I struggle to find a lot of content about what you're building today.
00:02:10.719 --> 00:02:14.800
It's all about the journey that you've been on, which is amazing, by the way, and super interesting.
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:19.120
But I think where I'd like to start today is in the present day.
00:02:19.280 --> 00:02:21.680
I'd like you to tell me a little bit about Fearless.
00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:25.599
I'd like to tell me what you stand for and the reason why you do what you do.
00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:27.439
Yeah, that's a great question.
00:02:27.599 --> 00:02:32.800
I think to understand we are to we are who we are today based on who we've been previously.
00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.560
So my entire experience and what I'm doing today is shaped on where I've come from.
00:02:36.719 --> 00:02:41.039
So fearless, firstly, like fearless was one of the values that we had a social chain.
00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:42.960
That was like the number one value.
00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:48.240
So I've always held on to that, and that's why we call the business fearless, because it was something which means a lot to me.
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:53.039
Um, because fearlessness is like it's like a really like strong emotion.
00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:58.719
If like if you say someone is fearless, it means they're like ready to walk into a storm head on and take and take it on.
00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:04.639
And you know, being a founder in a business a lot of times is like taking that umbrella into the storm and being like, I'll be fine.
00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:42.639
So um that was where the kind of foundation came from, but also the kind of thesis of the business is we want to help founders scale a business, and the reason why it's like positioned like that is because I got really tired of being a service provider for businesses, providing marketing, providing, providing growth, and like yes, sharing in that a little bit, but at the end of the day, the brand would always sit there and take the accolades for the work they've done rather than actually the agency, because that no brand ever sits there and puts their agency on a pedestal, it's always themselves and stuff like that.
00:03:43.360 --> 00:03:59.520
So when we're mentioning when when you see big brands you're working with mentioning the role social media has played in their growth of share price from hundreds of thousands to millions and billions, and you know you're the footnote, but you know you've driven that.
00:03:59.680 --> 00:04:03.680
It feels a little bit like oh god, why I wish I could actually share that success more.
00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:04.080
Yeah.
00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:15.039
So that kind of led to my logic of actually I want to invest in companies that I have a vested interest in and help them grow through my expertise in marketing and social media.
00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:22.720
So today, what Fearless is, is a business which invests and supports founders growing their company.
00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:33.199
And we look at that from a number of different areas, and I think the number, I guess the the three areas I like to focus on, but I think the number one area which we I think we talk about the most is the people.
00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:37.839
You know, having helping founders get them the get them the right people around them.
00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:43.360
And ultimately, someone once told me you've got two problems in business, just two, only two.
00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:49.279
Number one is people, and the second problem is how long it takes you to realize that people's your only problem.
00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:50.639
I love that.
00:04:51.279 --> 00:04:53.040
So, and I do believe that.
00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:59.279
I do believe that if you put the right person into the right position with the right kind of support, you get amazing outcomes.
00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:05.839
And actually, a lot of times in business, the problems come from having the wrong person in the wrong place or just the wrong person in general.
00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:10.000
So, for example, you know, take a salesperson, and I've experienced this number of times.
00:05:10.240 --> 00:05:12.720
You decide you want to grow the business, you go and hire a salesperson.
00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:16.319
It takes you three months to find that person because of the recruitment process.
00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:20.160
You know, an interview moves from Monday to next week because no one can do it.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:22.560
Um, you go for the long list, the short list.
00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:26.160
It then takes you three months to hire them because they're on a notice period.
00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:28.480
So then therefore are you six months down?
00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:31.759
It then takes you realize to realize three months if they're any good.
00:05:31.920 --> 00:05:35.199
And then if you want to get rid of them, it takes you three months to get rid of them because we've got a three-month notice period.
00:05:35.360 --> 00:05:40.399
So, therefore, you've lost a year of a salesperson because they weren't good.
00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:44.240
And how far back would that set your business based on all the assumptions you make?
00:05:44.480 --> 00:06:04.800
So, the strongest thing we talk about in Fearless is having a um academy and a talent pool where we help businesses find great people, and that is people we've trained and developed ourselves that we put on our programs and courses for our academy, but also people who are in industry, and that is everything from entry-level staff to helping people find the right chair, and we do that whole thing, right?
00:06:04.959 --> 00:06:10.879
And then the other side, obviously, funding, access to funding makes a massive help, so we invest in companies, and then the third is marketing.
00:06:11.199 --> 00:06:16.160
Where you think I'd come from, you'd think I'd say marketing is the most important piece, but it is.
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:20.959
But for a business, I always believe that the brand sits so close to the founders.
00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:27.439
So the best people to articulate the brand story are founders themselves, not an agency, not a third party.
00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:39.839
So if you can get someone to work with the founders to help them articulate the brand story, where we see so much founder-led marketing now, it's one of the highest performing contents as well in paid ads is founder-led content.
00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:44.800
You can actually then scale up a business much easier than just giving all this the work to an agency.
00:06:44.879 --> 00:07:16.879
So they're the three O's you look at, and we work with businesses across a range of sectors, and we have so far trained about over 1,000 people through either an academy, training courses, apprenticeships, help them get into jobs, and we've invested in 10 companies, and we worked with about 20 companies in terms of like growth services as well, keeping it very small, doing amazing work with less people, working with businesses we want to work with, in sectors we believe in, and and yeah, that that's that's what I'm doing today.
00:07:17.040 --> 00:07:37.680
And that's all been born out of running an agency business, which is 250 people across the world working with some of the biggest brands, and the lessons I learn on why agencies are um incredible businesses to learn from, but sometimes fundamentally set up in a way where they're very hard to scale.
00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.720
So many spider senses are tingling right now with what you've just said.
00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:55.120
Let me try and break this down just a little bit, and I do want to go backwards in a minute and talk about you and your story, but um something that I know is super relevant for this particular podcast is the founder-led sales journey.
00:07:55.439 --> 00:08:04.399
So typically, a project that I work on, the outcome that the client is looking for is a move from founder-led sales into a predictable sales motion.
00:08:04.720 --> 00:08:20.160
Um, the problem is that when I go in, I realise that they're not quite ready for that because they don't have a content strategy, they don't have any demand generation in the business, the founder is very usually anti-marketing or at least needs marketing to be sold to them as a concept.
00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:29.839
And you'll know better than anyone how many times you have to sell the the brand of a business back to the founder and almost kind of sell their own business business to them.
00:08:30.000 --> 00:08:49.840
So it's really interesting to me the point that founders should actually take a step back because it sounds like what you're saying is actually lean in more and be more visible, don't take a step back and go, right, okay, my business is going to be value more valuable if if I can show that I'm not needed to drive revenue.
00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:51.039
What are your thoughts on that?
00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:53.200
So there's certain stages where I think it's good and it's bad.
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:58.240
So let me give you a best example where I think it's really bad is the very early stage.
00:08:58.399 --> 00:09:08.480
So if it's just you as a person and you're trying to personal brand yourself, and therefore you are then a limiting factor because people don't want to work with you as a company, they want to work with you as a person.
00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:22.320
So I always say to people, the best way to start a business is not by a founder having a personal brand, because you will pigeonhole yourself so quickly in a more of a freelancer perspective, maybe.
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:22.799
Yeah.
00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:23.919
So don't do that.
00:09:24.639 --> 00:09:28.480
Build a business which has got a brand and reputation, and you are the founder of that business.
00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:36.480
You are not Ben who runs an agent, who runs this agency, and you spend all your time marketing Ben, Ben, Ben, because every client you work with wants Ben.
00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:38.720
They don't want the business because they don't even know what the business is called.
00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:52.879
And this is what we did so well is that we might have led founder-led sales and being one of the first people to really drive into personal brand, but we spent so much time building social chain as a brand that we became Dom and Steve from social chain.
00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:53.440
Yeah.
00:09:53.600 --> 00:09:56.320
We weren't Dom and Steve, and then social chain was underneath here.
00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:00.080
It was social chain brand was first, and then then people just come back founders.
00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:03.360
So going back to that part at the start, very bad.
00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:12.080
In the middle period where you've started to get a bit of brand recognition for the business, it becomes powerful because there's no better person to do any sales than the founder.
00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:12.559
Right.
00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:20.559
So in that period there where you've got off the ground and you're trying to hammer things home and resources are finite and you're the best person to sell, incredibly valuable.
00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:31.679
When you get to enterprise level and at that point there, what you're talking about, where they're trying to transition out of it, again becomes in it becomes an issue because the founder has much more responsibility to do than just drive sales.
00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.519
So I look at it from different perspectives.
00:10:33.600 --> 00:10:35.279
So different stages has different value.
00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:45.039
In that situation, the founder's responsibility for sales is not to be in the room doing the sales, it's to create a halo effect of a business which has a very powerful brand, which people want to work with.
00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:46.320
It's not doing the sales.
00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:55.440
In that middle bit, it's the founder doing the pitches, it's the founder, you know, driving things forward, it's the founder that in that space where they are uniquely positioned to do that because that's who they are.
00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:57.840
And sales is the most important thing in a business.
00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:06.080
As you scale, the founder's responsibility shifts to building a building a story and narrative of a product which people love, not necessarily being in those meetings.
00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:07.600
Yeah, no, great analogy.
00:11:07.679 --> 00:11:10.080
I love the one, two, and three um phases.
00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:23.440
And I think where where I was just referring to, it's probably between that one and two, where what the the step that they seem to miss is building the brand and building the brand voice and giving it strength, giving letting it stand on its own two feet.
00:11:23.600 --> 00:11:29.360
I'm I'm guilty of it, but I try and I try and plug the engine all the time, and people are like, How much are what's your day rate?
00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:37.840
Yeah, yeah, you know, so I I I completely hear you, and I think it's fantastic advice and something that I'll I'll definitely start to to kind of implement.
00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:44.080
And that's a question I asked found at that stage is that are you trying to build a are you trying to be a fractional yourself or are you trying to build a business?
00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:44.480
Yeah.
00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:54.480
Because if you build a business, we're all clued into the fact that if you're doing the delivery and doing the sales, you are a you are a freelancer.
00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:54.720
Yeah.
00:11:55.919 --> 00:12:01.360
And I I think freelancers are founders in every single ilk of what they do because they have to run every element of a business.
00:12:01.519 --> 00:12:01.919
Yeah.
00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:09.519
But if you are wanting to scale beyond yourself, you are pigeonholing yourself because you do the delivery and sales.
00:12:09.679 --> 00:12:10.080
Yeah.
00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:17.919
The only way you can scale as predominantly a service, and I know we're heavily talking about service-led businesses here rather than consumer goods or anything, or tech.
00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:29.120
If you're in that situation where you are stuck doing selling a service, you will you will get caught in terms of just maximising your day rate, is what your option becomes.
00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:29.600
Yeah.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.639
And and you don't tend to see that until it happens.
00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:35.440
You kind of look back and you go, hell, how did this happen?
00:12:35.759 --> 00:12:36.960
Why is this business just me?
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:41.120
So it's something that's you you see retrospectively that we should really see in our peripheral, really.
00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.200
It should be there, kind of hitting us in the face.
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:49.440
And yet we do we tend to just, you know, grind through the days, and then you look back and you're like, Oh no, what happened?
00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:50.320
Where's my brand gone?
00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:54.080
Yeah, I've done six months of working here in-house because it looked great.
00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:57.600
And oh my god, I've not actually spent any time on the business or building the business.
00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:57.840
Yeah.
00:12:58.000 --> 00:12:59.919
And then you ask yourself, do I actually have a business?
00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.279
And is this the kind of stuff that you can help founders with as well at Fearless?
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:04.320
Yeah, I mean, yeah.
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:09.120
So we have um our academy has like a program which is designed for early stage businesses.
00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:09.440
Right.
00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:22.320
So we do everything, we kind of take them through a 12-week programme where we look at everything from legal, HR, finance, marketing, brand, all this kind of stuff where we this is one of the messages we have we have at home to people is like you ask have to ask yourself what do you want.
00:13:22.559 --> 00:13:28.000
And a lot of the people that work on that bus that come onto that course are freelancers and they they brand themselves as freelancers.
00:13:28.320 --> 00:13:30.159
And I my message is quite powerful.
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.840
I don't think there's anything as such as a free freelancer, I don't think freelancers exist.
00:13:34.159 --> 00:13:42.639
I think the fractional work, the fractionalization of people is a really better position for people who are looking at doing that service model.
00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:47.279
But I ultimately believe that you are providing service to your business, you're a founder.
00:13:47.519 --> 00:13:47.919
Exactly.
00:13:48.240 --> 00:14:12.240
If you're a freelancer, you can put two people in front of each other, and this is where brand is like important, where someone positions themselves as a founder of a business which does X or a freelancer which does X, say content creation, they do exactly the same service, but one subconsciously has a much higher ceiling of how much they could charge a client than the other because the other that business knows freelancer X is gonna do the sales, the delivery, and the work with a founder.
00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:15.200
You know, well, there might be some kind of team in there, there might be some kind of process.
00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.639
So you're paying for something which is much bigger than just one person, yeah.
00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:51.519
And to come back to like full full 360 to like the days of like starting a company is you have to, and this is a discussion I just had with a founder that I've just been with today, not fake it till you make it, but you have to give emphasis of scale to make people believe that you are significant and wanting to be significant, and in no way do I endorse like you know a massive over overselling and over that, but you need to give like some scale of perception, and like from us from our journey, call it the business social chain and it being a business from day one and not just being two kids who are freelancers was a radical difference for us.
00:14:51.759 --> 00:14:52.399
Yeah.
00:14:52.799 --> 00:14:55.759
Okay, so you mentioned kids, so let's take it back.
00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:03.200
Um I was gonna start at uni because that's where you were when you had the first conversation with Steve and started social chain.
00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:09.840
But I want to go back a little bit further because I've struggled to find too much about you before that.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:12.080
Obviously, you were very young when you when you started the business.
00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:14.080
You're still still very young now.
00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:20.559
Um but I don't really know much about where you came from and and and your background prior to that.
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:30.320
You obviously had a decent education because you were at uni at the time, but it wasn't you were not doing a degree that uh was preventing you from leaving and going starting up something on someone's couch.
00:15:30.480 --> 00:15:36.159
Um so I'd I'd love to know a little bit about the baby dom.
00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:37.039
Baby Dom.
00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.919
Yeah, not necessarily baby baby dom, but pre-uni Dom.
00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:41.120
What's most interesting?
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:42.320
When's the most interesting?
00:15:42.559 --> 00:15:55.440
Um I'll tell you what, you know, when we spoke, Dom, you you agreed with me that you know a lot of the content that you've created, a lot of the podcasts that you go on, a lot of the hosts actually the same stuff.
00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:55.919
Yep.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:57.519
I'm gonna put my glasses on.
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:57.759
Okay.
00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.120
So I just want to make sure I get this name right and I can't see without them.
00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:06.240
So you you um challenged me to ask you something that you hadn't been asked before.
00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:06.399
Yeah.
00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:08.320
So I went down a little bit of a wormhole.
00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:12.559
You might have me arrested now, but uh, I take my challenges very, very seriously.
00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:14.720
So do you remember the bambas?
00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:15.840
Yeah.
00:16:16.159 --> 00:16:16.639
Do you?
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:17.120
Yeah.
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:26.000
Let's let's talk about like firework nights and stuff and what life was like as a kid on firework night with your with your friends, the the the Bamba family.
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:26.879
Let's start there.
00:16:27.039 --> 00:16:30.240
Yeah, so Sam is still one of my best friends.
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:32.960
Like to this day, yeah, yeah, we're best, we're best friends.
00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.840
Uh he was one of the grooms, he was him and Steve were my kind of top groomsman of my wedding.
00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:38.240
Right.
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:45.919
So yeah, my and me and Sam like were like we were like like yeah, we just up to see we're just kids.
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:47.039
And where are you at this point?
00:16:47.120 --> 00:16:48.000
Are you in Manchester?
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:51.360
I've been I'm in York, so I've been I've been yeah, I was best friends with Sam.
00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:53.840
Sam has been my best friend since we were four years old.
00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:59.360
We were in the same reception class, and um we grew up together, we played football together, we spent you spent our entire lives.
00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:06.079
And I think the interesting part about probably like where my life started to diverge from like normality is like at 11.
00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:06.240
Right.
00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:15.279
So I go to normal state school, no normal like primary school, like, and then um my older brother was getting bullied.
00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:15.839
Right.
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:17.200
So really in the same school.
00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:17.920
In the same school, yeah.
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:20.960
I didn't know about this, but he got bullied uh by girls.
00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:21.440
Right.
00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:29.759
Get teased got teased by girls a lot, and um he my parents made a promise to him that he's not gonna have to go to school with them for secondary school.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.079
So they started to look at taking him to private school.
00:17:32.160 --> 00:17:35.119
So my older brother went to private school to GAWA, the system had been bullied.
00:17:35.440 --> 00:17:51.440
And then I had the option, whether uh I wanted to go to private school or whether I wanted to go to normal school, and did the going around schools and stuff, and I was very com I was very like very very popular, like not like quite popular because I played football, so I was very, very popular.
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:59.680
And I um chose to go to private school, and one of the big reasons I did that was because like because I played football, I knew I wouldn't lose my friends.
00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:06.640
Sam inclined, and um so we we would still socially hang out all the time, we play football every day.
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:07.440
So Sam did it go.
00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:08.160
Sam didn't go.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:13.839
So I was the only person, I was the only person in my year to go to private school, to not go to the high school to go to private school.
00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:28.960
So that that I don't know whether that kind of made me feel like a little bit like better, but it it just it was kind of this first like sense of like, oh, I'm going to private school, I'm like, I'm just different, isn't it?
00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:29.599
Yeah.
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:39.119
Um, but then what actually happens is so bear in mind still to this day, there's probably there's probably like a group of five of us who are all still really good friends, they're all my stagday, all on my wedding.
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:41.359
Um, Adam, Sam, Jacob.
00:18:41.519 --> 00:18:44.960
I still they still we live on the same, we all all our parents live in the same houses.
00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:48.400
We live like literally 500 metres away from each other back in York.
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.960
So like I see them all the time when I'm 11, 12, and my time is spent with them.
00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:59.359
So at so back at private school, I'm like the non-conformer.
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:04.640
So I'm the one that has come from a yeah school, yeah, a normal school.
00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.119
So like and does that make a difference?
00:19:07.279 --> 00:19:07.680
It does.
00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:10.400
So I'll tell you why it makes a difference, and this is this is gonna explain it.
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.559
So it makes a difference because my dad was that kid as well.
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:13.839
Your dad's a GP, right?
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.519
Yeah, so my dad went to private school, right?
00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:22.000
But he went to private school, so my granddad, so this is I think I mean written quite a lot, and I think my granddad's the two most influential people in my life.
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:38.799
So my dad's dad is was born in Glasgow in the 1930s, and grew up in the garbles, which is like notoriously the poorest part of Glasgow, which then had like one of the lowest life expectancies in the world, so like proper, like deprived area.
00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:50.720
He worked in a steel factory, and one Easter they basically said the factory's closing, so everyone's getting fired, and this was happening all around Glasgow, and like unemployment levels were ridiculously high.
00:19:50.960 --> 00:20:09.839
He got on a he had a side motorbike sidecar, so he got my gran, my auntie, who was born at the time, and drove down to Coventry on Easter Friday, spent the weekend knocking on doors to get factory workers to get a job in Coventry come Monday morning because he he knew if he stayed in Glasgow, he would not get a job.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:12.640
Any reason why Coventry was because it's where the other steel workers were.
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:12.799
Right.
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:13.759
So for cars and stuff.
00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:14.480
Of course, yeah, yeah.
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:16.400
So that's that's why they just went, we're gonna go there.
00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:16.880
Wow.
00:20:17.039 --> 00:20:18.799
So um great work ethic.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.920
Um this is where I get it from.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:20.799
Unbelievable.
00:20:20.960 --> 00:20:26.160
So then he he um him and then my grand ended up working in the factories as well.
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:33.599
So his big belief always was that um the only way out of where their situation was was education.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:43.920
So he would relentlessly make my dad and my other uncles read and like lessons and like basically drill into them that the only way you're gonna get out of the situation and change your life is through education.
00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.160
And my dad became went to private school because he got the scholarship space.
00:20:48.240 --> 00:20:48.400
Right.
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:52.559
So he's a scholarship kid at private school, so he gets bullied as well because like he's the poor kid.
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:53.440
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:56.079
He is he is properly the poor kid.
00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:02.799
I'm not the poor kid, yeah, because I'm there on merit, but I'm like the so he had that experience, went to university, great.
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:06.720
I felt like I had the experience, but I had the experience more from a social aspect.
00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.039
Yeah, I played football with my mates that you know.
00:21:09.119 --> 00:21:11.759
I have friends outside of private school, and my private school friends were all.
00:21:12.160 --> 00:21:14.400
Yeah, so they're like looking tonight, you're like, I'm out of the house.
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.519
I'm out and playing football, I'm like living like a normal life.
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:20.559
So they felt always slumming it down at the end.
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:21.519
A little bit, yeah, yeah.
00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:30.000
And I remember I actually remember one year, like year eight, like it was like fancy dress and I came in like football game addresses a chaff, because like that's how like people people perceive me a little bit.
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:42.240
Um but it built it built it what I think it made in me was a sense of like like like a little bit tough, a little bit sense of reassurance, and a little bit of sense of just like self confidence, maybe.
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:42.559
Yeah.
00:21:42.720 --> 00:21:46.079
Because like I had like I had great social circles across the whole life.
00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:49.759
So every s every single firework day we'd go to the bambas and we'd have fireworks there.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:49.920
Yeah.
00:21:50.079 --> 00:21:52.480
And that was that like that, like I had a normal life.
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:52.960
Yeah.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.640
But then still went to private school.
00:21:54.720 --> 00:22:04.240
So um I and this will come into it a little bit, is like how do you have The confidence at 19 Strap at university to back yourself start a business.
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:08.400
Well, I think the only way you do that is by never actually experiencing failure.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:15.599
Because you don't know You don't know how it feels you've got nothing in your mind which tells you this is going to be a bad idea.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:16.079
Yeah.
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:18.160
And that's what happened to me.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:31.359
I was absolutely I walked through my A levels, walked through my GCSEs, walked through life socially wise, like I never faced any problems, never faced real adversity, to be honest.
00:22:31.839 --> 00:22:43.839
Um and even when I went to university, my offer offer for university because Edinburgh University, bearing in mind I was told by every single person in my school, applying to Edinburgh University is a waste of application because nobody gets in.
00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:51.119
I suddenly get in and not only get get an offer but I get an offer of BBC which is a subsidised offer because it's they want me there.
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:51.839
Right.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:59.359
And the the the person this in my life that's hurt hurt the most is my older brother.
00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:02.000
So my older brother's view is I've always landed on my feet.
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:04.240
I totally get where he's coming from.
00:23:04.319 --> 00:23:06.000
It must be quite a hard lens.
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.039
Are you close now?
00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:08.240
Do you get on well?
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.200
I love him.
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.079
Yeah.
00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:15.680
That's that speaks for what he is, but I think, yeah, I but I I can totally see that from his perspective.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:16.960
I have the same with my brother.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:23.279
My brother is one of those people who just like lands in, he's like, he'll fall in a pile of s and come up smelling of roses every every single time.
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:31.039
And I'm the black sheep, and all I've ever done is work, and yet he just seems to be like But it goes the opposite way because Sam, Sam would say the same.
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:31.359
Right.
00:23:31.920 --> 00:23:32.799
But Sam's one of four.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:34.240
Sam's one of four as well, yeah.
00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:37.039
But we're still so he's the second, we're all the same, we're literally all the same age as well.
00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:38.880
Oh I'm one of four, he's one of four.
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:39.039
Right.
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:40.000
And we're all the same age.
00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:43.200
That's how we became friends because our parents were friends with each other.
00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:43.680
Right, okay.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:45.680
Um, because they're all like kids the same age.
00:23:46.000 --> 00:23:59.920
So we were we were both a second, and he he would say the same about me, and he is the only like one of the only people at my life's come through my life who at no point has ever got any sense of enviousness of what I've been through.
00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:11.200
He is the only person, probably not the only person, probably one or two other people, but for the one of the my person I'm closest to who still sees me as that 10-year-old boy when we were at school, primary school together, having fun.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:17.920
Everyone else, even when I went to secondary school, I've become Dom who goes to private school, so they, you know, they didn't want anything to do with me.
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:22.559
When I went left, dropped out of university, my university friends were like, You're dropping out of university, why are you doing that?
00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:28.640
Even now, people I went to secondary school with kind of like, well, whatever you know, you are who you are.
00:24:28.880 --> 00:24:34.799
He's the only person that has, and I do believe has known me for that entire time and has never changed his view on me.
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:35.200
Yeah.
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:36.319
What a great friend.
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.240
That's that's the mark of a friendship, though, right?
00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:50.480
And that's why that's why you know friendships come and go, but I think a mark of a true friend is just having that very just that stagnant view of you, no matter what happens, no matter what's going on in your life, and that just never changes.
00:24:50.720 --> 00:24:59.519
That's very hard to come by, which is why you can most people could people, if they were challenged, could probably count their real friends on one hand, because that's very, very, very difficult to come by.
00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:00.559
So I'm glad I asked you the question.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.079
Yeah, he's got fat to my son.
00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:02.960
Oh, is he?
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:03.680
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:12.480
I've I've I've been uh delving into the the the the Bomb Finites, and I thought, what a great place to start because you were a person before you did social chain.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:25.680
Yeah, and not only were you a person, but it also it all it there wasn't something radical that changed as soon as you joined Social Chain that made you into an entrepreneurial person or somebody who could do the things that you could do or had the talent.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:26.880
It was always there.
00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:33.920
You just brought it out, you just you had an opportunity at a very young age to for that for that to come out.
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:39.359
But I think most importantly, you had an opportunity and you hadn't I had no voice in my head.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.359
So I remember speaking to people who went to school, it was like, I was like, when did you first experience anxiety?
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:47.839
They were like, I remember this one girl specifically called called um Georgia.
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:50.160
She was like, oh, 13, 14 years old.
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.759
And she told me about English classes where she felt anxious about doing exams.
00:25:53.920 --> 00:25:58.960
And like I never, even at 19, that that self-doubt and voice in the head did not exist.
00:25:59.279 --> 00:26:01.440
So let's double-click on that.
00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:06.000
Is that your parents, or is that something that you've been born with?
00:26:06.559 --> 00:26:08.319
I think I think it comes over time.
00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:11.039
Coming back to what I said there, I'd never never experienced failure.
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.480
You know, that that amplified over so like fail, of course I experienced failure.
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:16.240
Like in sport, I lost football matches.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:17.599
Of course that happened all the time.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:22.400
I wouldn't get into um the the school boys local team.
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.880
I wouldn't I got kicked out of Leeds Um Football Academy because I wasn't good enough.
00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.799
So I experienced failure, of course I did.
00:26:29.119 --> 00:26:35.039
But it in the macro world, none of it was ever like it was all near misses.
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:36.720
And this is how I see maybe this is how I see it.
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:38.160
It was nothing which was like crippling.
00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:38.480
Yeah.
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:41.039
So like I'd dust myself off and go on again.
00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:46.960
And maybe my my big view is that like maybe, and this is again a lot of this hindsight.
00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.000
I just I never was worried about people thought about things.
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:56.799
Going back to being that kid who like probably got the the mick taken out of school a couple a bit too many times.
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:58.799
I was never bothered about people's perceptions of things.
00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:05.279
So like that like idea of self, not just self-doubt, but like societal doubt of am I doing the right thing?
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:06.000
never existed.
00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:06.240
Yeah.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.519
So I come back to it and be like, entrepreneur at university, that's business.
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:17.680
I don't care what society says, I don't care what my friend says, I don't care what my best friend at university, Olivia or Tabby, say that I'm making a big mistake.
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:21.279
I feel like I'm okay doing it, so I'm going to do it.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:21.519
Yeah.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:31.279
And I think maybe some people would experience that societal pressure that I have to be on this journey, especially if their parents would spend thousands of pounds on education.
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:32.559
That's what I was gonna say.
00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:45.519
Like, so your dad has experienced really being the poor kid, but has had drilled into him that the way to get out of any bad situation or the way to make it in life is through education.
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:47.680
So he's a huge advocate for education.
00:27:47.839 --> 00:27:54.640
How did that go down at home when you said that you want to leave of a university that no everyone said you wouldn't get into in the first place?
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:55.920
Absolutely fine.
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.240
And I think it comes back to that they they they they backed me.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:04.000
And so all these things build up over time where it's like maybe I can do it.
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:04.319
Yeah.
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:13.119
And like at no point did anyone people told me I was making the wrong mistake, the mistake doing it, but not many people told me I couldn't do it.
00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:13.759
Yeah.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.039
And it was like, and this is how I probably felt is that well, I'll give it a go.
00:28:19.200 --> 00:28:19.519
Yeah.
00:28:19.759 --> 00:28:29.279
And I remember dropping out of university and like my cost level for life, I was renting a place in Leeds at the time,£500 a month is what I needed to live.
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:32.640
So I was like, surely I can make£500 a month.
00:28:32.880 --> 00:28:36.160
Like that's like, we have to be able to make that, otherwise, what's the point?
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:37.279
Oh, so you weren't at home?
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.359
No, no, so you had to pay for yourself straight for you.
00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.000
Yeah, I had to do a little bit of survival there.
00:28:42.079 --> 00:28:42.240
Right.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:59.680
Um bear in mind like the other side of it, the other side of it is like the coming back to the privilege and security banquet, like A, I knew I could go back to university a year afterwards if things weren't going well, and B, I knew if things were going well, I could take run run home with my like my tail behind between my legs and go back into my house.
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.319
So like I do I do know I had privilege there.
00:29:02.480 --> 00:29:12.960
I wasn't like strung hung out to dry, and you know, you've got to figure it out, but I was definitely given a platform where you have the best opportunity to process it, go and go and do it.
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:13.680
Absolutely.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.200
And you you're really validating a lot here for me as a parent.
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.640
My son's 17 and has just dropped out of college.
00:29:21.279 --> 00:29:32.240
Um, and um he's very entrepreneurial, he's always you know, he's got 30,000 followers on TikTok and he's very much kind of just just really just always thinking of the next thing.
00:29:32.319 --> 00:29:46.400
And and and to be honest, most of what comes out of his mouth is total trash, but ultimately he he he may or may not find the thing that sticks because let's face it, not everybody that drops out of college to follow a dream is gonna end up having social chain, right?
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:54.880
A lot of them are either gonna have to go back to college or uni, go to the parents with the tail between the legs, or go and work in Tesco or do something else.
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:58.240
Like they're not all gonna find so find uh social chain.
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:07.839
Um, but the the the point is not, oh, you might find this, like found this huge enterprise and be super successful at exit at what 27.
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:11.200
Um sorry, bad research there.
00:30:11.440 --> 00:30:17.599
Um but the the the key thing is, and certainly as a as a parent, is to provide a safe environment.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:23.119
And I think that your safety net has probably been testament to a lot of the decisions that you've made.
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.799
Um, and it you know it's it's it's massively paid off for you, right?
00:30:27.039 --> 00:30:27.680
Yeah, 100%.
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:36.240
And I think the the the other interesting part about it is like the way timing play timing and look play a huge part about it.
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:43.200
So, you know, going back to a 17-year-old right now, a lot of people want to drop out for the same reasons.
00:30:43.279 --> 00:30:46.160
They want to either start a social account and become an influencer.
00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:50.960
Like when we were 30, no one was dropping out wanting to start a social media like business.
00:30:51.119 --> 00:30:55.920
Like I remember saying to someone, I'm yeah, I'm gonna run a Twitter account full-time, and they were like, How is that a job?
00:30:56.640 --> 00:30:58.960
Now it's like common knowledge, you know.
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:01.119
Yeah, we all we all want little mini Mr.
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:02.480
Beast, don't we, in our family?
00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:03.519
Exactly.
00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:24.720
So um what you what we what we it was almost reluctant because we'd created something which was new, and so that's where I think the differentiator comes is that um it was like a proper like element of innovation, yeah, rather than it being like okay, we're we're dropping out to do something.
00:31:24.799 --> 00:31:29.119
So I think that's the piece I have to look back, and like that can only happen then, it can't happen now.
00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:33.759
Yeah, if someone goes to university and drops out to start a social media business now, it's not a news story, yeah.
00:31:34.079 --> 00:31:37.519
It's just another person starting a social media business.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:57.119
Back then, when in a world where Twitter was like just starting and Facebook like the idea of a social media agency like didn't exist, so we were we were innovating, so actually that's when the whole thing became new, newsworthy and interesting because not only is there a social media agency that's doing new stuff, it's run by two young kids.
00:31:57.440 --> 00:31:58.319
Totally, totally.
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:06.640
I went to a talk in Amsterdam uh 2018, 2019, and Steve was talking and it was absolutely groundbreaking.
00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.079
Yeah, groundbreaking.
00:32:08.160 --> 00:32:14.880
I was mesmerized, I was like, these guys are really like you they're they're really trailblazing here.
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:16.880
So, but it's mad, isn't it, out of the time?
00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:18.480
Because that's not that long ago, really.
00:32:18.880 --> 00:32:21.440
And as you say, now everyone's an influencer and it's all used.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:21.920
Exactly.
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:38.799
So, like, my challenge to people in that situation is like what like coming back to like that that that process I had about like convention and like me constantly get maybe taking the different path that what people were taking, where like now if you go and tell people I want to do that, it's that's becoming more convention.
00:32:38.880 --> 00:32:39.119
Yeah.
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:42.480
So my challenge to people is like, what is not conventional right now?
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:45.279
Yeah, what is the opposite route to what everyone's doing?
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:45.599
Yeah.
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:48.319
Because that's where the opportunity is, it's not where everyone else is going.
00:32:48.400 --> 00:32:48.559
Yeah.
00:32:48.720 --> 00:32:51.920
And back where I when I was 18, everyone was going to university.
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:57.039
And you know, now everyone's talking about the student debt crisis and they're talking about graduates not being able to earn.
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.680
So like that that's where convention has led people.
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:00.160
Yeah.
00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.400
People like who went on convention are trapped.
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:02.960
Yeah.
00:33:03.200 --> 00:33:10.559
Like, especially, well, I was the year before the fees went up, so the year afterwards, which is the new candle, those are the people that I feel sorry for for.
00:33:10.640 --> 00:33:20.720
So then my question to people now is like, try and find unconventional roots because convention historically has never led to individual prosperity.
00:33:20.960 --> 00:33:21.279
Yeah.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:22.319
Really good line.
00:33:22.559 --> 00:33:23.119
Love that.
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:26.480
So we are in social chain, you've made the decision.
00:33:27.039 --> 00:33:36.160
Everyone that's watched or listened to any of your content will know you basically got a tap on the shoulder from Steve, you two decided to join forces.
00:33:36.240 --> 00:33:37.279
That's kind of old news.
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:38.319
We know, we know that.
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:40.400
We know that you founded the business together.
00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:54.240
Talk to me about that little bit of uh a pinchy time between deciding to do that, and you've you've made a lot of sacrifices at this point, uh, and I'm sure he had too, but um actually kind of going, do you know what?
00:33:54.319 --> 00:33:58.559
And and and let's look at like the milestones that we look at now with your with your founders.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:00.880
How do they know we're onto something here?
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:03.359
Whether it's the first million quids with a pipeline.
00:34:03.680 --> 00:34:12.239
At what point did you go, or what was the journey like from like we're two kids to this is a business, we're a brand, we're gonna make some money here, guys.
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:20.400
Um, so I think we we started the the journey of probably being like remote workers before people were remote workers.
00:34:20.559 --> 00:34:28.079
So we went to Thailand and we worked with people there where um you know we worked with one big client, Spotify, from being in being in Thailand.
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:35.199
Then we went to Brazil for the World Cup and then we went to USA and we we were basically helping companies market without realizing that we were helping them market.
00:34:35.440 --> 00:34:43.840
So we were we were coming in as consultants, and our secret weapon was that we had all these social media pages behind us that they could use them to drive the marketing forward.
00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:51.119
And then I think um I don't know, I don't know who um well we had a name, so we had sorry, we had a name before then.
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:56.960
Um because we when we first needed to get cash, we basically created a brand that we were going to try and sell.
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:57.360
Right.
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.880
And where that's where the social chain came from because the logic was a chain of pages on social media.
00:35:01.039 --> 00:35:01.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:35:01.599 --> 00:35:03.039
I remember that from the study's talk, actually.
00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:05.920
Yeah, so we we we that was where we that's how we came to the idea.
00:35:06.000 --> 00:35:10.559
Yeah, um, there's a discrepancy who came up with the name, but I personally think it was Ash Jones still.
00:35:10.880 --> 00:35:12.000
I'm convinced it was Ash Jones.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:13.280
My memory's pretty sharp.
00:35:13.599 --> 00:35:18.400
Um, and that was what we we sold was we sold we sold the access to the social chain of pages.
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:19.039
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:22.719
Um, but then in doing so, that led us to conversations with founders about how they can grow their business.
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.440
So we kind of built a consultative piece off the back of the pages.
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:36.400
And the first kind of times that we felt like it was being successful was when we probably had um comfort in ourselves.
00:35:36.559 --> 00:35:43.280
So when we're in Thailand and we wake up in the morning and we go on a moped and we go and swim, and that's kind of like, hey, this is pretty cool.
00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:50.239
This when we go to the World Cup, we can we can party on Copacabana and then run some social media pages in the afternoon.
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:51.440
That's probably when we felt it.
00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:51.760
Yeah.
00:35:51.920 --> 00:35:57.760
When we got like a worldwide trend during the World Cup final because of our pages, we go, this is pretty impactful.
00:35:57.840 --> 00:35:58.079
Yeah.
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:07.840
So all these things you build up, and like I think the beautiful thing about it was, and this is how communities are built, and we inadvertently learnt this communities are built through authenticity.
00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:08.320
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:12.079
So if you don't sell things, and this is why I think a lot of brands struggle right now.
00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:17.199
I think every single brand should think like a media business, they should have like a community that they own and operate.
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:21.039
The only way to like build an authentic community is not to sell to people.
00:36:21.280 --> 00:36:27.440
Brands are too quick to put on their social media or to put on their um TikTok, buy now, buy now, buy now.
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:30.559
So pushing a sales message talk to sales, talk to sales, yeah, all the time.
00:36:30.639 --> 00:36:36.320
Yeah, rather than cultivating an audience and community through powerful content.
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:36.639
Yeah.
00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:41.440
What we did is because we had nothing to sell, we just built community over and over and over again.
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:47.519
You know, years of building channels and building, we built a community, we built community about because we had nothing to sell, we could just create content.
00:36:47.599 --> 00:36:47.840
Yeah.
00:36:48.000 --> 00:36:51.440
So we built um massive communities because of that.
00:36:51.679 --> 00:36:58.480
And then we were able to start selling them because we could go to a brand and say, hey, we can get things trended on Twitter.
00:36:58.639 --> 00:36:58.960
Yeah.
00:36:59.119 --> 00:37:13.840
So for me, like the first kind of the two moments, the one where it was like, hang on, this is quite powerful, is when we're we're in Silicon Valley and we're at a company called Monkey Inferno, um, a guy called Sean Piori, who now runs my first million, big podcast, amazing guy.
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:17.920
He watched us make something trend worldwide during the World Cup final.
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:18.719
Right.
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:22.239
And he's like, This is pretty powerful.
00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:22.719
Yeah.
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:24.559
And we didn't, we just this is what we did for fun.
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.119
We've done more of our trends before, so we're like, for us, this was normal.
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:29.760
So that was like point one, we're like, maybe we should take it seriously.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:39.280
Our client at the time then offers an investment, and we we we spent a lot of time, Steve and I, whether we're deciding to do it or not, ended up deciding to do it.
00:37:39.679 --> 00:37:40.800
That was point one.
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:49.679
That was kind of like a really short, like month, two month period, and then point two was when BuzzFeed come came to us and were like, You say you can make things trend, do it.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:58.880
And literally the guy came in and was like, You've been on stage making the claim you can make anything than one trend in the UK within half an hour, do it.
00:37:59.280 --> 00:38:03.519
Got his phone out pretty much, but plus time on a stopwatch, and was like, go on then.
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:04.880
What was your next move?
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:08.400
Well, we loaded up the computers, loaded up the tree jack, and we tried to make something trend.
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:09.360
And did it work?
00:38:09.519 --> 00:38:10.719
Yeah, we did it in 24 minutes.
00:38:10.880 --> 00:38:11.360
Did you?
00:38:11.840 --> 00:38:15.519
And like he was coming with the mindset of writing an expose.
00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:19.679
But in reality, he had to validate the fact that what we said was true.
00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:21.119
Could you do that now, do you think?
00:38:21.360 --> 00:38:23.440
No, no, could you do that now?
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:26.639
Um I'm not gonna challenge you on it, by the way.
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:28.639
I could personally, but could someone do that now?
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:34.800
Is it too crowded or could someone do that now?
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:35.760
Great question.
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:37.440
I don't know.
00:38:37.519 --> 00:38:40.719
I think they are I think not that it's too crowded, I just think there's too much going on in the world.
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:42.000
Like news happens in there.
00:38:42.239 --> 00:38:47.599
So like what we had was like we had enough infantry on social to be able to make that happen.
00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:49.360
No one has that penetration anymore.
00:38:49.679 --> 00:38:55.760
What you what gets trending now is you probably could, you probably could.
00:38:56.400 --> 00:39:00.000
You need a lot of money in the right thing because we've seen things a million times now.
00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:03.440
So it'd be harder, but I think probably still possible.
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:04.079
Yeah.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.400
So that was the next moment, and like after that, that was put on BuzzFeed.
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:18.480
We got like Disney, 20th Century Fox, Nike, all these amazing brands coming to us being like, hey, it's it sounds like you know what you're doing when it comes to marketing to young people.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:19.119
Can you help us?
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:19.440
Yeah.
00:39:19.599 --> 00:39:21.920
And that was like the next inflection.
00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:46.800
So throughout this, there's a lot of I suppose a lot of challenging days, but it's sounding like a like a bit of an awesome journey as well, with some massive moments and like celebratory moments that you know, as someone that's sold software and done enterprise sales, I can only like imagine that the feeling of selling to some of these brands that you were selling to must have been a hundred times some of the celebrations that I've had.
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.320
And yet, I party when something goes well, like I know how to celebrate a deal.
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:55.280
So you probably see where I'm going with this now.
00:39:55.440 --> 00:40:22.880
Um I your kind of journey around, you know, alcohol and and and that kind of thing, um, has kind of, and and and obviously you've written about this, you've been very open about this, but has kind of been linked very much to the the darker times, the clash flow cash flow crises, the challenges we find as founders when we're running a business and you know it's so stressful, it's so stressful, it's so stressful, I'm gonna, I'm gonna mask, I'm gonna mask, I'm gonna mask.
00:40:23.519 --> 00:40:26.480
Was was that the do you think that was the catalyst for that?
00:40:26.639 --> 00:40:29.840
Or actually was it that there was just so many great moments?
00:40:29.920 --> 00:40:32.320
Like, which do you think really drove that?
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:38.639
I think coming back to like my starting journey is that when my brother turned 18, I turned 18.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:40.239
And he never went out, I always went out.
00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:41.920
So I had his ID for when I was 18 years old.
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:44.320
Even before that, me and Sam would used to go out all the time.
00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:46.400
So like And how old were you really?
00:40:47.119 --> 00:40:47.599
16.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:47.920
Right.
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:50.079
I've been I've been I've been going out to nightclubs since I was 16.
00:40:50.239 --> 00:40:51.920
Me and Sam were going out to nightclubs since we were 16.
00:40:52.159 --> 00:41:00.400
And like we we used to, me and Sam used to have a joke, it'd be like Sam and Don plus one nights, and we'd go out on time every single time I got out, like on my memories, there's like tons of photos of us out.
00:41:00.639 --> 00:41:06.159
So I again coming back to adversity, I'd never experienced any negative areas of drinking.
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:08.639
I'd go out and have a great time, I'd wake up in the morning.
00:41:08.719 --> 00:41:12.559
I never got lost, I never got in a fight, I never like was in danger at any point.
00:41:12.639 --> 00:41:19.440
So, like for me, like my like relationship with our course formed really young, really early that it was just part of my life.
00:41:19.599 --> 00:41:24.800
Like, I remember I also won at school, secondary school, most likely to be drunk drunk right now because I just go out all the time.
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:30.800
And I had this ability again, just to bounce back as you do as a young person and be functioning and actually fine in school.
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.239
And that was just that was just how I was.
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:44.400
Took that to university as well, would just go out all the time, have fun, was in the football team, socialise, was great, and and never learn probably like deep, deep down, like how to manage my emotions.
00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:54.559
So, like I, as we all do, go through things like breakups, go through bad times, and I my solution for that when I was younger would just be have a drink and get over it.
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:55.039
Right.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:06.000
And when life is like not stressful, like breakups when you're 18 happen, it's not like this is these aren't real problems, these are fake problems, these are not like at the time it feels like your biggest problem, but it's not a real problem.
00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:15.599
If you deal with it that and then you go out and get drunk and have a nice time and you get over something, you you might get over something, but you never actually learn a proper coping mechanism.
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:25.199
So, like my like immaturity of like how to deal with emotions was drinking it'll go away because that's what I'd learn my entire life from like these little things.
00:42:25.840 --> 00:42:30.960
So I'd also learn drink, have a fun time, celebrate, and have a party.
00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:44.000
So I think those two things combine together where you you become so like almost like dependent, or like you associate the two things so strongly that when things are great you drink, and when things are bad, you drink.
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:57.599
And you actually, and I actually the problem I think the fundamental disproblem I had was I was unable to deal with my emotions and my situation, so my anxiety, my depression, my like my like imposter syndrome.
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:04.480
That the only way I knew how to deal with these things was to like drink and recluse and escape.
00:43:04.719 --> 00:43:12.159
So actually, like my my my fundamental problem wasn't the alcohol, the alcohol was my medicine.
00:43:12.400 --> 00:43:19.360
My fundamental problem was like inability to deal with emotions, which manifests itself through alcoholism.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:30.400
So through your journey now in sobriety, you've removed the medicine, but what have you done about the symptoms themselves in the absence of that medicine?
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:31.920
Well, let's take anxiety, for example.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:33.119
Why does anxiety occur?
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:35.360
Anxiety occurs when someone's worried about the future.
00:43:35.599 --> 00:43:43.760
Okay, you're overthinking things, you're analysing situations that are not gonna happen because somebody feels like it's outside of your control.
00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:44.719
Take cash flow.
00:43:45.119 --> 00:43:56.719
If you have a full grasp of it and understand what's coming in and what's going, and you understand from a model perspective, for example, that what a business is gonna look like or what your personal finance are gonna look like, that anxiety gets removed because you know the facts.
00:43:56.800 --> 00:43:57.119
Yeah.
00:43:57.360 --> 00:43:59.599
If you're speculating, that's when that happens.
00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:07.440
Depression, in my mind, my view of depression, it comes when you feel like your self-worth is very low.
00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:15.599
So you are becoming your own worst enemy and you're talking yourself down where actually you then don't want to do something and you create a massive spiral which makes life worse for you.
00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:42.159
If you learn to love yourself and you actually see that what makes you happy isn't something which is external or which which isn't something which needs to be put on to you from somebody else, but it's in your own control, and you can find that in the like smallest of things, or the the the something which is so unique to you that makes you happy that actually that is happiness, you will no longer get depressed.
00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:43.440
Imposter syndrome.
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:54.559
If you you know again, if you feel like you walk into a room and you deserve to be in that room and you are comfortable with who you are, the two things link with depression slightly, I think, then you don't have experience imposter syndrome.
00:44:54.800 --> 00:45:01.840
So for me, what removing alcohol did was allow me to learn my views on those things and deal with the problems that I was facing.
00:45:02.239 --> 00:45:15.440
So alcohol wasn't really a medicine, it was a blocker to the real antidote, which is just facing up to things and and learning how to deal with them without having this kind of um escapism, yeah, yeah, exactly.
00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:20.880
Yeah, but the problem is the thing about alcohol is that you don't win another contract when you're pissed.
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:21.519
Yeah.
00:45:21.760 --> 00:45:25.679
No one ever goes out because to celebrate an Amazon and then wins another Amazon that night.
00:45:25.760 --> 00:45:25.920
Yeah.
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:34.159
What happens when you're drunk is you mess up your relationships, you do something stupid, which like then reduces your self-worth.
00:45:34.320 --> 00:45:42.559
You you actually feed your brain with poison, which makes you like want to kill yourself and question who you are as a person and is a depression.
00:45:42.719 --> 00:45:44.000
So that's what alcohol does.
00:45:44.079 --> 00:45:46.159
It just makes every single situation worse.
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:48.239
It doesn't make things better, you know.
00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:53.119
Yes, there's some stories of people go out and they they fall in love with a person they meet, but that's an anomaly.
00:45:53.199 --> 00:45:59.440
Like the average night out, you get no sleep, you fill yourself with a toxin, you eat terrible food.
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:01.280
The next day you feel even worse.
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:04.559
That's not trending upwards, that's trending downwards.
00:46:04.639 --> 00:46:10.159
So when you've got everything already on top of you pushing you down, and you're putting this fuel into it, you're only going to get lower.
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:10.639
Yeah.
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:13.280
So removing that is the only way to improve.
00:46:13.679 --> 00:46:16.880
And what would you say to you work with a lot of founders now?
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.719
I'm assuming that they're not all sober.
00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:19.199
Yeah.
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:21.360
Um, and some will have different relationships.
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:34.320
So some will have a relationship with alcohol similar to the one that you had, and you're best placed to advise them how to remove that from their lives and get rid of that because that's not going to serve them and they're not going to be successful.
00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.639
Some will have a much more balanced relationship with alcohol.
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:45.039
You obviously feel quite strongly about the effects of alcohol on people, founders, etc.
00:46:45.760 --> 00:46:51.679
How do you converse with those that uh have much more of a balanced view?
00:46:51.760 --> 00:46:55.519
Do you do you still say actually there's no such thing and you need to get that out of your life?
00:46:56.000 --> 00:46:59.920
No, I think I think you answered the question yourself in the way you you you put it to me.
00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:03.119
Which is you described it as a relationship.
00:47:03.920 --> 00:47:05.440
And not many people do that.
00:47:05.760 --> 00:47:12.320
And you're self-aware enough to know it's a relationship, and a relationship requires management, it requires checking on whether it's healthy or not.
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:19.119
And my view to people is that actually you should view alcohol or you should question whether your relationship with alcohol is healthy.
00:47:19.360 --> 00:47:19.440
Yeah.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:20.880
The same we do with anything.
00:47:21.599 --> 00:47:29.599
So I think my view, my view on it is that my question I ask people is like, not should you drink or do you drink and why why do you drink?
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:32.159
It's like, do you think you have a healthy relationship with alcohol?
00:47:32.239 --> 00:47:32.400
Yeah.
00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:36.960
And if someone can answer me that question, yes, without a shadow of a doubt, think about it, I'm fine.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:37.360
Yeah.
00:47:37.599 --> 00:47:39.119
Because everyone's different.
00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:46.000
But my my view is that I want everyone to think about rel alcohol in terms of a relationship.
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:46.480
Yeah.
00:47:46.639 --> 00:47:47.840
It should be the same with everything.
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:51.840
Work, your friends, your your actual relationship, your partner.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:52.320
Yeah.
00:47:52.480 --> 00:48:00.480
Um, it's if it's not serving you and it's actually making you sad, but this is the ping people can't people can't self-reflect.
00:48:01.599 --> 00:48:07.360
These are the these while it sounds so easy for me to say that to you, like, do you have a healthy relationship with alcohol?
00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:10.960
To some people that's their darkest fear of question that ever asked themselves.
00:48:11.519 --> 00:48:15.440
The whole self-improvement thing, yeah, it only comes from asking you to solve these questions.
00:48:16.079 --> 00:48:20.480
And like, you know, we're all humans, yeah, we all have things we hide.
00:48:20.639 --> 00:48:24.880
Like there's no people that know each other a hundred percent, you know.
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:29.039
We all have little things that we, you know, deepest, darkest thoughts, yeah.
00:48:29.440 --> 00:48:35.679
And it's very hard to bring these things to your forefront and say, I need to do something about that.
00:48:36.000 --> 00:48:36.239
Yeah.
00:48:36.480 --> 00:48:38.320
And it tends to be an addiction, you know.
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:46.639
I was speaking to Holly, um, who's my social producer, and she was telling me about someone she knew who had a gambling issue, and the gambling issues are so common.
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:50.400
Um, I don't know whether I'll have to edit this out, but can we can I tell us, Holly?
00:48:51.280 --> 00:48:51.440
Okay.
00:48:52.000 --> 00:49:03.199
Um she was saying that someone she knew's partner moved in together, had a gambling problem, and then you know, said basically at the moment it was found out, changed, ran away.
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:07.199
Yeah, and um no one no one knew that he had a gambling problem.
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:11.599
So, like we all we all have gone through things in life where we've hidden things close to us.
00:49:11.840 --> 00:49:15.360
Um, but these are the questions we need to ask ourselves, and for some people it's so hard to ask.
00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:18.960
It is, and it it's it's the same with human relationships as well.
00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:24.079
So many women that I've known that are suffering from abuse at home don't talk about it.
00:49:24.239 --> 00:49:24.639
Yep.
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:41.760
Um, and so I suppose any relationship, whether it's with a drink, whether it's with gambling, whether it's with a person or an individual, um, yeah, if it's if it's a toxic, unhealthy relationship, then we're almost instinctively ashamed.
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:44.239
And you're ashamed and you've got to admit you've failed.
00:49:44.400 --> 00:49:44.559
Yeah.
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:45.920
And that is the hard part.
00:49:46.000 --> 00:49:51.840
And this is something I feel strongly about, and it's like with men, for example, men do not want to admit they've failed.
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:59.199
So the reason male alcoholism and suicide become such a hard part, such a large like association is because men don't want to accept they've failed.
00:49:59.679 --> 00:50:06.400
And I think going back to like my narrative of like never failing, that's what led me to drinking.
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:11.280
Yeah, I'd never admit I'd failed because it was a stra like for me, it was a sign of strength.
00:50:11.360 --> 00:50:23.039
Being able to down a pint was like a sign of strength and popularity, and like the biggest thing I've learned in through the whole thing is like you can just accept you failed throughout this whole process, it actually makes it easier.
00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:25.119
It's quite endearing to people as well.
00:50:25.199 --> 00:50:30.320
When you when you know I think admitting that you failed is is it makes you more human, right?
00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:33.199
This is this is what entrepreneurs mean when they say fail more.
00:50:33.599 --> 00:50:38.400
Yeah, it because yeah, this is that's that is my saving grace.
00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.000
I am so happy.
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.840
Uh, because I like in in reflection, I wouldn't be an alcoholic at some point.
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:48.480
But the reason that it happened so early is because my life circumstances accelerated all.
00:50:48.719 --> 00:51:02.639
You put me in a you put anyone in a situation where a year ago they're at university, they've got 3 pm lectures and they miss a 3 pm lecture because they're in bed hungover, to a year later having a team of 20 staff manage an investment and cash flow.
00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:13.280
There is no you show me any person who can go through that in that rapid growth in a period of time and not break, I'll be impressed.
00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:13.679
Yeah.
00:51:13.840 --> 00:51:20.159
The the people, the young entrepreneurs you hear about are always ones that are always and I this is the thing, I wasn't the entrepreneurial kid, I wasn't selling tweets at school.
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:24.480
Steve was was more like that, you know, his story about bringing vendor machines into the school.
00:51:24.639 --> 00:51:26.159
Like he was always thinking about this.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:35.599
For me, I was just a normal person and it became a business, and that that stretch of growth, like he had like you know, he he was 19, we were both 19, but he might have had six years more experience than me.
00:51:35.679 --> 00:51:41.760
Yeah, yeah, which is a massive amount of experience, and he's probably hardwired like that as well, whereas you're wired in a slightly different way, exactly.
00:51:41.840 --> 00:51:45.280
Yeah, which is one of the reasons why we worked, but also one of the reasons why I broke.
00:51:45.519 --> 00:51:46.880
It's because I was never wired for that.
00:51:46.960 --> 00:51:55.440
Yeah, so that's what they mean by like that's what I've always interpreted by fail fast, is like because you be the reason I am an example of what happens when you fail.
00:51:56.559 --> 00:51:58.559
And so it's a good thing, it's a good thing, yeah.
00:51:58.639 --> 00:51:59.440
And are you happy now?
00:51:59.599 --> 00:52:00.719
Oh, yeah, yeah, unbelievably.
00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:01.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:52:01.440 --> 00:52:02.320
I know what makes me happy.
00:52:02.480 --> 00:52:05.599
I know the biggest thing about it is I've I've learned myself and know myself.
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:16.400
Yeah, and that that's the biggest change, is that I remember sitting there the first weekend of like thinking to myself, I'm not gonna drink alcohol, and asking to myself, what what do I do?
00:52:17.119 --> 00:52:22.960
And what does someone who's 23 years old who doesn't drink do on a weekend?
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:27.199
It's so the prime drinking time of your life as well.
00:52:27.519 --> 00:52:28.079
For their life.
00:52:28.400 --> 00:52:31.039
Like I literally just yeah, I'm single.
00:52:31.199 --> 00:52:31.760
What do I do?
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:33.280
What does my life look like?
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:37.599
And like I couldn't like scarily enough, I couldn't answer that then.
00:52:39.280 --> 00:52:40.960
And it felt like terrifying.
00:52:41.119 --> 00:52:42.719
Now I'm like, God, how stupid's that person.
00:52:43.039 --> 00:52:44.320
Yeah, you found some to do, though, didn't you?
00:52:44.719 --> 00:52:45.760
I found some things to do, yeah.
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:55.920
But that's the thing, that's how it clouds you because um whenever you becoming, you know, and it was a community because we go out and we see the same people, we go to the same places, it was a habit.
00:52:56.400 --> 00:53:09.119
When you're in that world or any community or any group of people where everyone's behaviour is the same, to remove yourself from that situation and be like, Well, I'm gonna go different is not normal.
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:11.599
And thankfully, my entire life I'd done that.
00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:18.480
Yeah, so when I did that from year 11, from being 11 to 12 and going to secondary school, I was removing myself from my friendship group and said, I'm gonna go somewhere different.
00:53:18.719 --> 00:53:25.280
When I started going to Edinburgh University and all my mates were taking gap years on going to other universities, I was like saying, bye-bye, I'm gonna go this way.
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:28.639
When I was at university and dropped out and started a business, I was like, see you later, I'm going this way.
00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:28.880
Yeah.
00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:31.920
When I said to everyone around me, I'm not going drinking, I'm going this way, I was like, see ya.
00:53:32.159 --> 00:53:33.920
So I was thankful that's changing your environment.
00:53:34.239 --> 00:53:34.800
I've done it.
00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:39.360
I'd I've I I was able to I've in my life I've been able to walk away from something and know it's not the end.
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:39.519
Yeah.
00:53:39.679 --> 00:53:57.840
So going back to what we talked about with Sam is that knowing at 11 years old that you're leaving your best mate and going on a completely different path to go into second different school to him, but knowing that that change doesn't impact you, yeah, is probably what got me out of drinking.
00:53:57.920 --> 00:53:58.079
Yeah.
00:53:58.239 --> 00:53:59.840
Because I think he's your constant, right?
00:53:59.920 --> 00:54:09.599
He's your even that logic of like just because I'm saying bye to all my friends, I go and drinking, yeah, or like Steve even Steve going out or doesn't mean I'm I'm leaving them.
00:54:09.760 --> 00:54:09.920
Yeah.
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:11.760
Our relationship might change, but they're still gonna be there.
00:54:12.000 --> 00:54:12.960
Yeah, you're in a different room, yeah.
00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:21.280
I've had so much experience of doing that that it was probably a piece on me where I was like, well, people just like will like me for who I am.
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:30.639
So it doesn't matter if I go to private school and my friends go to another school, or it doesn't matter what's up at university or start or start a business, it doesn't matter if I drink or not drink, they'll still be there.
00:54:31.119 --> 00:54:33.760
And if they're not, they were shouldn't they were just part of that environment.
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.159
Exactly.
00:54:34.400 --> 00:54:34.800
Not part of it.
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:35.360
Exactly.
00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:41.920
So I've I learned that the non-conventional route was always the answer for me, and drinking and stopping drinking was the non-conventional route.
00:54:42.239 --> 00:54:43.679
Yeah, love that.
00:54:43.920 --> 00:54:47.760
I think we've really kind of we've gone all the way back to baby dom.
00:54:48.239 --> 00:55:00.639
I'm so glad that I asked you about Sam and the and the family because actually what I didn't get from listening to content of yours previously was how much of uh an important part of your life that family and and and Sam were.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.840
So I'm really glad that I've I rooted that out of the bin.
00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:16.800
Um, but yeah, I I I I feel like we've really got to know you, and what I'd love to finish on is for you to have a think about, and none of this is pre-scripted, so I'm totally putting you on the spot here.
00:55:17.199 --> 00:55:24.800
But you are known predominantly for two things, which is social chain and sobriety.
00:55:25.039 --> 00:55:30.239
Those are your two pillars, shall we say, and that is somehow by design as well.
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:32.079
I'm so glad you didn't say trains.
00:55:32.320 --> 00:55:32.559
No.
00:55:32.800 --> 00:55:34.239
Because some people put trains.
00:55:34.559 --> 00:55:34.880
Okay.
00:55:35.039 --> 00:55:38.239
Well, those are the two pillars that I kind of built.
00:55:38.480 --> 00:55:43.920
And and and and that's by design as well, because you you want to be, you know, you've written books on this stuff, you want to be known for this.
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:48.639
So it's not like people are trying to pigeonhole you or anything, it's it is very much by design.
00:55:48.800 --> 00:55:56.400
But what I'd really like to know today, and we always finish on like what's next and what's the future, but actually, what do you want to be known for now?
00:55:57.440 --> 00:55:59.840
Um now or in the future?
00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:00.639
Both.
00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:02.559
What are your hopes and dreams now?
00:56:02.800 --> 00:56:10.239
Yeah, like the big the big piece now, like, is that I want to be known as the person who helps give opportunity to young people to get into the industry.
00:56:10.639 --> 00:56:19.519
So James was built off a bunch of 16-year-olds, 19-year-olds doing things differently, and I've seen firsthand how you put a young person into a company and it changes the way you think.
00:56:19.679 --> 00:56:31.360
I think every company should have a some form of youth board or youth member on their senior exec team because the the what's happening is that the older a board gets, the quicker technology goes, the slower they can have to adapt to it.
00:56:31.679 --> 00:56:41.039
So having a 25-year-old who is in the the cultural centre of the world, the technological centre of the world, being able to help shape the direction that company is going in is ridiculously important.
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:42.159
So, how do you do that?
00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:54.480
Well, you you start off by getting young people interested in work from a young age, you get them Saturday jobs, you get them part-time jobs, you get them learning the value of money, and you get them desiring the fact they want to get into companies so that they can make a difference.
00:56:54.960 --> 00:57:03.039
How you do that from a company perspective is making sure you have things like the apprenticeship levy in place to help young people get into jobs that is unique for them.
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:11.440
So the problem we've got at the moment with the wage crisis is that hiring an 18-year-old out of out of school is the same as hiring a 21-year-old out of university.
00:57:11.519 --> 00:57:13.679
There's not much difference that when it comes to the cost of the employer.
00:57:13.920 --> 00:57:20.239
So you've got, and I had this experience the other day, you go into a pub, which used to be full of the young people working there as a temporary basis.
00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:22.800
Every single person in the pub that worked there was a 30-year-old guy.
00:57:23.360 --> 00:57:25.679
And that's because there's nowhere for them to go.
00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:36.320
So they're stopping young people getting into that job and work experience because the pubs have closed, there's less people there, and they always that want to stay in the pub trade, and now 30-year-old men who want to work in a pub.
00:57:36.480 --> 00:57:36.800
Yeah.
00:57:37.039 --> 00:57:47.920
So, like for me, youth opportunity doesn't start at 21 when you're a graduate, it starts at a young age, work experience, 14, 13, even at school, experience in the industry and see what it looks like.
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:51.599
So that's what I want to be known for is like helping shape that.
00:57:51.840 --> 00:57:56.559
Uh, and then secondly, I want to be a good dad.
00:57:56.800 --> 00:57:58.800
Yeah, I think that's a very important feature.
00:57:58.960 --> 00:57:59.760
It's a really important thing.
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:01.679
I want to be I want to be a good dad.
00:58:02.079 --> 00:58:08.400
I think if I can do those two things in the youth piece, obviously I kind of put like investing in founders and helping them grow because that's like the whole premise of it.
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:08.639
Yeah.
00:58:08.880 --> 00:58:11.920
But if I can if I can be a good dad, that'll be a massive success.
00:58:12.079 --> 00:58:21.760
Yeah, I think uh it's it's if we can be good parents and and raise useful humans who have good morality.
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:23.679
Yeah, and do you know what the two things are linked?
00:58:23.760 --> 00:58:26.880
I'm I'm sat there thinking, Adam, because I've got uh how old are you now, one?
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:29.280
Um he ain't gonna have a job.
00:58:29.519 --> 00:58:34.960
If I really critically think about it, he's not gonna have a job in the sense of what we know is a job.
00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:42.719
Um he needs to do something which is like really like hobby first.
00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:50.559
Yeah, because we're talking like 15 years away or 13, 14 years away before he starts to get into So what the hell is the world gonna look like?
00:58:50.880 --> 00:59:01.039
He's not gonna like I if I have the mentality that he's not gonna have a job, like is a traditional sense, he's not gonna go to an office, I don't think he's gonna go to like an office and like work on a computer.
00:59:01.599 --> 00:59:06.239
I need to think about how I raise him and what he does to be able to make sure that his life is fulfilling.
00:59:06.559 --> 00:59:18.000
It's really interesting because we've been conditioned through schools and parents to you know control screen time and all of that stuff, and it's like, well, where's the where do you draw the line?
00:59:18.079 --> 00:59:28.320
Because what you don't want is for your kids to come out of high school with a few GCSEs with no ability to use any social media platforms or know how anything works.
00:59:28.639 --> 00:59:29.760
So I disagree with this.
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:31.840
I didn't start social media platforms until I was 18.
00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:33.360
I turned out alright.
00:59:34.400 --> 00:59:40.559
Well, I mean, the world that we're in now, it's like that's but you don't need to have it doesn't have to be wired into you from the age of three.
00:59:41.760 --> 00:59:42.719
What are you gonna do with your son?
00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:47.519
No screen time, no screen time, outdoor, outdoor hobbies.
00:59:48.000 --> 00:59:52.239
I I don't I will not mind Monday, badminton, Tuesday, swimming, Thursday.
00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:53.519
Like that's how I was honestly.
00:59:53.679 --> 00:59:55.360
I it's very tiring, I'm gonna warn you.
00:59:55.760 --> 00:59:57.039
Oh, it's absolutely exhausting.
00:59:57.360 --> 00:59:59.679
I know it is, but yeah, but I think that's more important.
01:00:00.079 --> 01:00:01.840
I would like that's what I think.
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:06.480
Like, my view is that I didn't learn computers until I was 17, 18.
01:00:06.559 --> 01:00:07.840
I figured it out.
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:11.280
It doesn't yeah, I wasn't technologically behind anyone.
01:00:12.559 --> 01:00:17.280
So them starting on phones later is not gonna leave them behind.
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:18.639
Yeah, I just don't know.
01:00:18.719 --> 01:00:29.039
I I feel like there's just so much, even for them as a as a from a social perspective, for them to feel like they fit in, you know, there's so many different things going on that you're trying to manage.
01:00:31.039 --> 01:00:32.000
You'll feel like you fit in.
01:00:32.400 --> 01:00:44.880
If just again, this is from my background in football, if you've got friends and people respect for you for who you are through sport, and you know that you see people and you get validation that way, you're not gonna worry about what what the group chat's saying on a Tuesday night.
01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:47.039
Great points to finish on.
01:00:47.280 --> 01:00:50.480
That's that's that I yeah, I'm starting to see that more and more.
01:00:50.800 --> 01:01:03.280
You know, I think that that is my view, is that and I I think I feel bent, I feel grateful that whenever my kids turn to me and say, Well, I can't go on social media, I can tell them.
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:05.119
What will you answer, B?
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:09.119
Well, what's the debate to someone like their dad's an entrepreneur from social media?
01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:11.440
I'll say you can use it when I used it.
01:01:13.519 --> 01:01:15.199
I just don't know how they can debate with me about it.
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:18.400
Yeah, it's gonna be I'm trying to debate with you about it, and I'm trying to use it.
01:01:19.119 --> 01:01:20.639
I just don't know how they can say I'm wrong.
01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:23.679
Yeah, I just don't know how I just don't know what their argument is, but all my friends are on it.
01:01:23.840 --> 01:01:25.519
Well, did their parents build social media companies?
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:25.679
No.
01:01:26.239 --> 01:01:28.400
Oh damn you, darling, you definitely got it.
01:01:28.639 --> 01:01:30.960
I've got the I've this, I've got the trump card of debate.
01:01:31.280 --> 01:01:34.400
You have because I can just say I know about it.
01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:34.880
Yeah.
01:01:35.039 --> 01:01:36.559
I I didn't have you can have it when I had it.
01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:37.119
How old is that?
01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:37.599
18?
01:01:37.760 --> 01:01:38.000
Yeah.
01:01:38.159 --> 01:01:40.480
Well I'm gonna get left behind and you not look at me.
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:45.840
Like, and I feel privileged to be able to Yeah, you do you are in a privileged situation.
01:01:46.079 --> 01:01:51.679
I feel privileged to be able to have that conversation in a rational way where I can explain it, yeah, and they can't argue back at me.
01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:54.800
They will argue back, I know I'm ruining their lives, that kind of thing.
01:01:54.880 --> 01:01:57.119
Yeah, but I say never ruin my life, yeah.
01:01:57.360 --> 01:01:59.840
And they have they hopefully they have to accept it.
01:02:00.079 --> 01:02:00.639
Hopefully.
01:02:01.039 --> 01:02:02.800
Well, you've got a rough ride on your hands.
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:07.840
I don't envy you, but I'm sure hopefully it will, you know, you'll i everything will work out.
01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:09.119
And I suppose it is the thing.
01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:10.559
I'm too bit maybe I'm a bit illogical.
01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:11.679
I'm not not thinking about it.
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:21.440
I think being a parent is it's it's probably the most illogical thing because you just you just don't know what the day is gonna bring, you don't know what what how your child is gonna be.
01:02:21.599 --> 01:02:27.280
So I always just you know, I like to plan everything, I overprepare everything, I like to know what what I'm gonna be doing.
01:02:27.440 --> 01:02:29.679
A love forecast, it's what I do, the job that I do.
01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:37.360
Um, and I've had three children now, and I've each one has been completely different and it just surprises the hell out of me every day, but in a wonderful way.
01:02:37.760 --> 01:02:41.679
Um, so yeah, I'm I'm I'm excited for you that you've that you've got all that to come.
01:02:41.760 --> 01:02:44.000
But I really hope because if I've got a trump card, you're right.
01:02:44.239 --> 01:02:44.480
Yeah, yeah.
01:02:44.639 --> 01:02:45.199
It will find it.
01:02:45.599 --> 01:02:46.159
In this area.
01:02:46.480 --> 01:02:50.400
I don't know what to say, so he's not gonna know what to say either, because like there's no argument with it.
01:02:50.880 --> 01:02:56.639
So um I'm looking forward to seeing how that goes and whether you manage to uh to stick to your guns.
01:02:56.800 --> 01:02:57.360
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:02:57.519 --> 01:02:57.679
Yeah.
01:02:57.920 --> 01:03:03.519
I mean it's the one area where I might lose every single debate, but I think this is what this this one I'll win.
01:03:03.679 --> 01:03:04.480
I think you might.
01:03:04.800 --> 01:03:11.119
Because my wife also works at social chain as well, so she I was gonna say actually, have you got have you got backup because you're gonna need it, mate?
01:03:11.360 --> 01:03:12.639
I've got backup, I got backup, yeah.
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:13.039
Good.
01:03:13.199 --> 01:03:13.760
I got backup.
01:03:14.079 --> 01:03:16.239
Well, that's really important as well, working as a team.
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:16.480
Yeah.
01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:18.880
Um, it's it's it's very much underrated.
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:22.960
It sounds like you've got a good team both at work, at home, and everywhere else as well.
01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:30.639
I'm so happy for you that you're able to tell such a an amazing story at such a young age, and I'm sure that actually things are just kind of.
01:03:33.039 --> 01:03:33.599
Young.
01:03:33.920 --> 01:03:41.519
But I kind of feel like even though you've got so much to say, Dom, and that you've been through so much, I kind of get a sense that you're just getting started.
01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:42.719
We'll see, yeah.
01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:56.000
There's I've got, like I say, there's there's big ambitions, and I feel like I feel like the most important thing for me at the moment is like I'm in a my plan has always, well, since I've kind of, you know, or my my mindset has been social chain has been my start.
01:03:56.159 --> 01:03:56.480
Yeah.
01:03:56.639 --> 01:04:01.039
And then I consciously started a business which had a bit more of a light hell orientation.
01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:09.519
So like I've in the last kind of five years, I've got married, bought a house, had a kid, another kid's on the way.
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:12.000
And hang on a minute.
01:04:12.159 --> 01:04:14.400
So you've got to get two of them off the screens.
01:04:14.719 --> 01:04:19.920
Oh so yeah, I might have to get math at that one out, but it depends when it goes out.
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:20.239
Yeah.
01:04:20.559 --> 01:04:25.039
But um, I've consciously set my life up in a way where my office is ten minutes away from where I live.
01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:27.440
I've put lifestyle first for a period of time.
01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:32.239
I have, I think in my life, two, maybe two more free iterations of what I want to do.
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:40.000
And the next one I I I think is the one I'm getting the most set on that I'm going to do.
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:47.039
And it requires it is probably the same effort and energy running a company, and I know how much that takes.
01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:50.480
So it's been nice to have feel like a bit of a mini break.
01:04:50.719 --> 01:04:58.320
Obviously, we've been doing a lot, but knowing that what what I want to do next is going to be very emotionally draining.
01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:02.000
So you're tooling up, you're getting ready for the next big thing.
01:05:02.239 --> 01:05:02.480
Yeah.
01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:10.079
Well, hopefully you'll talk to us about it at some point in the future, because I'm really curious now.
01:05:10.320 --> 01:05:14.480
Um, but for this session, I think we're pretty much done.
01:05:14.880 --> 01:05:18.000
Um, I'm so grateful that you're just such an open book.
01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:19.760
I found you so easy to talk to.
01:05:19.840 --> 01:05:24.480
Um, and I'm sure that this will be a source of massive motivation and inspiration to people.
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:26.880
Um, you're pretty accessible, right?
01:05:26.960 --> 01:05:29.519
You're all over socials, you're on LinkedIn.
01:05:30.000 --> 01:05:32.400
If people want to connect with you, what is the best way for them to do that?
01:05:32.639 --> 01:05:35.920
Yeah, Instagram, hit LinkedIn, drop me a DM.
01:05:36.400 --> 01:05:36.960
You cool with that?
01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:38.000
Very cool with that, yeah.
01:05:38.159 --> 01:05:41.039
Normally I pimp every founder out, but I didn't know whether I was allowed to with you.
01:05:41.599 --> 01:05:42.079
Pimp me, yeah.
01:05:42.320 --> 01:05:42.880
Anything, yeah.
01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:43.440
Amazing.
01:05:43.519 --> 01:05:44.559
That's so kind, thank you.
01:05:44.719 --> 01:05:45.840
And um, thank you for coming on.
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:47.119
Thank you for having me.
