025 - Table Talk w/ Scott Etheridge

Cody Hill: Yeah. What's up, everybody? You're listening to The Engine House. My name's Cody. I'm your host. This is your first time joining us. Welcome. Before we get started today, I have to mention the sponsor of this episode is Engine House Designs. That's my company. We ⁓ specialize in custom fire service apparel. So if you're looking for hats, hoodies, jackets, flags, decals, patches, whatever it might be, ⁓ check us out at enginehousedesigns.com, see what we can help you with. If you'd like to be a guest or you want to see a certain guest, have any ideas for the show, of course, email me at enginehouse podcast at gmail.com. And then don't forget to hit the subscribe button and ring the notification bell, as Wade likes to say, so that you can get notified every single time that I drop some new content. ⁓ if you're watching this on YouTube, scroll down just a little bit, hit the like button. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave a review. This lets those platforms know that this is content worth pushing out to other people. And of course, thank you and I appreciate all the support that we've gotten so far. I'm pretty excited about this episode. it's a it's a mentor of mine. It's a guy that I've I've learned a lot from, grew up under in the fire service. So ⁓ let's kick it off. Let's get our size up out of the way. If you could give the listeners your name, your current rank, and how many years you've been doing this for. I'm Scott Etheridge, ⁓ currently the fire chief and thirty years. Thirty years of sping. Gosh, you're old. I know. No shit. One day closer to retirement. Yeah, there you go. How much longer you got, you think? Unless that's top secret information. ⁓ no, no, no. You know me, I'm not top secret at all. ⁓ clearly there's a pool going on I found out a few days ago of when I'm gonna leave. ⁓ I'm not gonna stick around much past fifty. So I turn fifty next March. ⁓ might wait for the May ⁓ cost of living bump. And let's I'll I'll see if I wanna stick around to October, which would be my anniversary day. But just kinda just depends on how it feels and how it's going. So but definitely probably next year. Awesome. What are you gonna do after you retire? ⁓ go work for ⁓ the farmer I've always worked for. Yeah. So yeah. Awesome. So to simple your life. Yeah. Yeah. At least my one boss. Yeah, there you go. Well, you see, I wore my Oklahoma Sooners hat just for you today. He gave us the hook ⁓ horns. man, I I was really nice and slide it over and show you the passion that's behind me the since you wore the hat. ⁓ there's a guy that ⁓ I recorded with a couple episodes ago. You might have seen it, it's the two lieutenants that I was sitting with. Yeah. ⁓ and one of them is an old miss well, they're both old miss fans. So I put this hat in the background. ⁓ Unfortunately he sat down right in front of it, but it was back there. But ⁓ man, I always like to ask the guys that have been on for a while or towards the end of their career, is there anything that you maybe regret or wish you had done different throughout your career? ⁓ man. I'm one of them that I'd have to say no. ⁓ Maybe one time of as I could have been written up once in my career and I could have taken that back. But as a as a general, like, no. Like I'm I I'm pretty satisfied. And that's it, that's amazing. Like I I I'm sure there's little bits and pieces you could change or something you want to do, but man, it's been a fun, fun ride. Yeah. What do you think? I I'm interested because like I I've only asked that question maybe three times, including this time. And the other guys said, Yeah, like maybe I would have taken an opportunity or something. But ⁓ what what do you think leads to like a fulfilled career? To where like what are the things you need to do to not reg have any regrets towards the end? ⁓ Not give a shit what other people think. ⁓ it and I and I care what the guys think and I think they they'd all say that. I think it's just ⁓ have a unselfish ⁓ outlook from the beginning and just try to be, you know, if your goal's to be the best barn boss or the best senior firefighter, that that that's awesome. Mine was a double fire chief. It has been since the day I stepped into my volunteer department. And ⁓ I had some good mentors in front of me that always encouraged me and pushed me along. And yeah, I don't I do I couldn't, I couldn't change a thing. I mean, it's been amazing. Sure. Well, I think too, it's like, you know, taking taking the opportunities. Like I think a lot of guys like we've had this talk too, ⁓ about me, where it's like, man, I don't know if I don't know if I'm really ready to be a lieutenant. Like I I wanna be a lieutenant, but it's like I like what I'm doing. And I think that kind of mindset might lead to regrets in your career. But like like you were saying You know, you've you've taken the opportunity. You knew where you wanted to go and you did what you had to do to get there. So maybe that's the difference. I don't know. I mean, ⁓ I would say my company officer come a little sooner than I expected. ⁓ I was pretty confident I could do a decent job. but yeah, I I think I just when others were sitting around and ⁓ not taking advantage of the educational opportunities our department provided. the guys that didn't take them, I was taking them for ⁓ So ⁓ stuff like that and and mind you, I'm no ⁓ I'm no master's degree or anything like that, just down dirty level fire service classes and ⁓ stuff like that. I just again I I'm very blessed for the way my career path has went out. Like some of it probably come a little too soon. ⁓ Maybe not as mature as I should have been as a company officer in the beginning, but the chief thing fell right for me. I'll be comfortable getting out of there about five years as a fire chief. And yeah, I just never stop like taking my opportunities or going to be an instructor for this or that or you know, along them lines or listening to people. That's the big thing. You can you can go outside drone four walls and learn a whole heck of a lot in a short period of time. So absolutely. Absolutely. And I think I've I've heard and I may have definitely had that conversation with you behind closed doors before. You maybe need to listen a little more and talk a little less. Yeah. Yeah. I no, I think yeah I think it's just getting out of your your comfort zone a little bit, did that a ton, a ton earlier in my career and got to spend a lot of great time with some good leaders and had some darn good mentors. But yeah, like the whole ⁓ that was probably one of my favorite conversations with anybody lately. It was I mean you had the conversation on the phone. I you you hate to say it that way, but eventually you start to look around your department or other departments or whatever you want to say and think why you know, why why am I gonna stay on the pipe or why am I gonna be the Nazim? Right. It is the most fun. I mean, it it is the most fun. I'm never gonna say that, but there's a lot more fun and opportunities when you get promoted as you go on too. And ⁓ I think in your case I know you well enough that I'm pretty sure I don't know everybody's department and how everybody works, but pretty sure you can look around and know that you do a lot better job than ⁓ you know, quite a few other people. And that's the kind of the way I looked at it. Like I might piss some people off as I'm going because I'm young and going, but I I knew I was gonna do a good job. And at the end of the day it's about who you're going to help and the department you're on. So I sure. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. And I I was talking to I actually just recorded with another guy the other day and, you know, we were talking about the characteristics that make up a good fireman, right? ⁓ but it kind of led to this conversation of like because I asked him I said, Okay, you have this guy, he's he comes out of rookie school, he's young, motivated, ambitious, learns the job, he gets really good at the job. You know, he can Throw a ladder faster than anybody, he can cut the hole, he can put the water on the fire, whatever. But then when you you give him 10 years, and now maybe he's the first one in the recliner. You know, maybe he's the first one to sit at the dinner table, doesn't really want to get up and help clean up, whatever. But you go to a fire and he's still that guy. He still outworks everybody. So I said, Is is that still is that a good fireman? You know, and And he kind of the way he explained it was like, yes, by definition, yes, that's a good fireman, right? Because he gets the job done, he does it well. But like there's other things that play into that. You know? And we brought up this idea of like that guy should have shifted into a mentor or a teacher. Because he but he didn't. He he got good at his job, and that's when you normally transition. into like more of a teacher role or like you and I were talking about where you go and you get promoted. So it's like we kind of came to the conclusion and I'm curious your opinion on it. ⁓ once you've once you've got that base knowledge and you're starting to kind of you the spark is starting to fizzle out. That's when you need to make that transition because if you don't start having a purpose, you kind of turn into that guy. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by Vanguard SafetyWare. 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Yeah. ⁓ but I I just like there's there's stuff that you can do to motivate that person. Like ⁓ we highly encourage, you know, ⁓ like I make fun of our guys all the time that are the the tech rescue guys and call them dopes on a rope and stuff like that. But it it's what they're interested in, what keeps them going. And Just giving him something there, you know, where they can kind of let's say specialize in keeps them motivated. The other thing is is getting ⁓ I I think when you get them breaks, what I've found is is when a chief or ⁓ you know company officer allowed you some responsibility to be in charge of something kind of breaks that. And ⁓ we try to do try to do a job where we, you know, if if there's a lot of different stuff in our small department that you can be in charge of and Just kind of not getting to that stagnant point. If you wanna be in charge of something, I mean, I can go out through our full time guys right now and I'm gonna be able to rattle off something they're all very good at or they're responsible for. And I maybe lots it. I I don't know what the ticket is, but ⁓ I always felt motivated when somebody gave me some sense of responsibility and trusted me. You know, ⁓ I can't imagine if, you know, you get through just like you said, all your basic stuff and then all of a sudden there's no no further thing to go on, you know what I mean? Right. Everybody's good at something besides putting, you know, water on the fire or whatever. But that that's kind of my take on it is give them some responsibility. Mo most people appreciate that and, you know, we'll dig in and do something good. And probably easier on our size of the department, but that's kind of where we've gotten it through is where you start to see that person, you know, kind of get into the recliner or ass magnet or whatever you want to call it a little more often. Yeah. You know, give them some responsibility. So Yeah. No, I think you're right. And I think that ties into like like you're giving them a purpose. There's a reason to do something, you know? ⁓ and not to say that it's not their fault, but like if they if there's nothing to do, you know, like there's always stuff to do. But, you know, I mean, if you complete everything you're supposed to do and they're not a a self starter, you're right. You know, you can you can give ⁓ something and then they have something in their mind like, This is an ongoing project that I can always be working on, you know. I like that. ⁓ As y you brought up, you know, company officer came rather quick for you. And when I one of the very first episodes I did was with Eli and we kind of talked about some of those challenges as like a new officer and a young officer. What were some of the things that you dealt with like as a as a newer, younger officer? ⁓ I I would say that age gap was the biggest thing. You know, we we had guys at that point where I'm gonna be off by a couple of years, but here here I am what, 30 years old. ⁓ been on the department for I think we can't get promoted to a lieutenant in f till four years. And I was like four years in a couple months. Yeah. And when and then you're going to shifts where, you know, here's a guy that has twenty eight years on, has never been in a leadership and ⁓ I would say that was the roughest thing. I I think some of it I would have to say ⁓ you know the head butting and stuff ⁓ maybe was or I almost say maybe at times was my own fault. ⁓ you've been around me long enough. I'm t I can be hard headed and ⁓ I don't keep my mouth shut much. But ⁓ You know, and then I I think there's some things that happened in our department at the time that ⁓ kinda handcuffed me too, where ⁓ I really wanted to focus on my shift. ⁓ the shift that I was assigned to and and then all of a sudden we lose ⁓ deputy chief that was in charge of training and then ⁓ guess who gets to be in charge of training. And then it kinda becomes your business to paying attention to the other two shifts. So ⁓ that probably wasn't fair to them either, but I I don't think it was the fairest thing to me. And finally the guys on my shift come to me and said, Enough's enough. We want you to pay attention to your own shift. But you know, some of that, the maturing, ⁓ knowing how to handle people, you can't handle everybody the same way. That takes shoot, I'm still working on that. You know, it it's it you know me and you have been around each other enough. I know how to talk to you. You know how to talk to me. Right. ⁓ can't talk to you like I Some of the guys at the station out of they they would shut down, you know, just just learning that. And that's nothing against them. That that that's nothing against them. But ⁓ yeah. But besides that, like ⁓ it was more the personnel stuff, the you know, getting people to, you know, my motivation level was astronomically higher than some of the people I worked with. That that was difficult. Sometimes you just need to shut your mouth and go. Do what need to get done. ⁓ stuff like that. It wasn't terrible and being hard headed and helps helps sometimes too. So yeah. When you you know, like I'm I don't know. I feel like I've grown a lot in the last six years, ⁓ in the way that like I'm maybe a little more vocal than than I was. ⁓ I c of course I've I've always had the respect of like authority and my officer or whatever. ⁓ but when there's something I don't agree with, like I I speak up about it. And ⁓ one of the things that I've found though is I've kind of made that transition into I'm hard headed, maybe I don't have a filter sometimes, ⁓ maybe I say things without thinking about ⁓ before. But so if you I mean, if you need to say something, if there's a message that needs relayed and you have a guy like that that you know like, hey man, this guy's gonna shut down as soon as I start getting into his ass. Like, I mean, what how do you navigate that now with 30 years on the job to where it can be a productive conversation instead of just I'm chewing this guy out and he's not even hearing me anymore? Yeah, I I I'm gonna say right now I'm still not the best at it. ⁓ I've learned to maybe ⁓ pump the brakes. ⁓ I've told our deputy chief this many a times, let's go home and sleep on it. You know, if it's on an emergency scene, we we we all know that it's gotta be if something's wrong, gotta be taken care of there. Yeah. ⁓ even in training, you can ⁓ as long as it's not something unsafe and you get somebody injured. ⁓ I just think at this point, it a lot of it for me is is I know what I wanna say, it just sometimes it don't come out right. And ⁓ I I've learned to a either notice something and have say it's it's one of the firefighters, let their lieutenant take care of it. That's a good learning experience to them. You know, discuss it with them. Maybe they don't even agree with what you're seeing or saying. Sure. ⁓ but the biggest thing to me is if I get to that ⁓ as my wife would say, Scott mad level, I'd I I'd I need to just ⁓ I go home at three o'clock now. I'll go home. Come back next morning and if it's still there, then then it's time to discuss it. ⁓ the y I mean, for me, the ⁓ I I'll just admit it, I was I was the yeller, you know, chew your you know, chew your ass right away, right on scene in front of everybody or not on scene, say training or whatever. ⁓ there's a time and a place for that. And I I think at this day and age, I don't think there's Very rarely is there a time or place to do it unless it's, you know, something life or death. ⁓ trying to get better every day of walking away, taking a deep breath. Yeah. I'd I'd say that's my best thing now. And there's some days you come home, you go to bed, you wake up the next day, and ⁓ it's really not that important. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Once you've had a second to think about it, you're like, is that really a big deal? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. So that's that's I I agree. ⁓ like I said, it's something it it's a balance, right? Because there were times when I would just be like, ⁓ it is what it is. You know, like kind of go with the flow. ⁓ but like as I've gotten older and I've matured and I've worked around different people, ⁓ especially now in the role that I am and you know, I'm in charge of the ambulance. I'm I've always got you know, trainees or whatever with me and it's like, no, I'm I'm kind of responsible for these people. And so if there's something I see, like, I need to speak up. So but now it's like You know, I try to take the approach of it's it doesn't have to be my way. ⁓ there's ten ways to skin a cat, and but you know, just not always the greatest at it. So but I think you and I are pretty similar in that way, but y you know, th there's there's there's two ways to look at it. I I like the fact that you said, you know, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and there is. And ⁓ I've gotten better at letting people convince me of Maybe their ways are better. If it's something I'm really set on, I might take the day or two to think about it. But ⁓ on the flip side, I think there's what probably frustrates me more than anything is when you give the company officers and or the firefighters the ability to decide something. So you're not constantly, you know, like let's say you're in the position I am now, you know, you're right at that year, maybe. ⁓ maybe 18 months away from going, what why am I deciding where the department's gonna go in the future? You know what I mean? Right. There's there's times also where you allow people to make these decisions or give me feedback. Like, and they won't give feedback. Yeah. And that that's frustrating because there's many times in my career where I would have loved been asked for you know, like just point blank. Now You have to have a little bit of toughness. I might not like your feedback. Yeah. I I think I that that's the thing where, you know, I I don't know. That's something that's that gets frustrating with me is, you know, ⁓ you know, just trying to let people have feedback and then they don't want to say nothing, but are then the people that, you know, as soon as you make a decision because nobody else, well, they're the first ones to bitch about it. So Yeah. But but that's life. That's not just the fire service. Yeah. It brought back a a memory when you were talking about letting people kind of make decisions or whatever. My first lieutenant on engine sixteen, hi that was his big thing was, ⁓ I just want you to make a decision. You know, like we're we're decision makers, and we get the job done. It's like, okay. So we go to an automatic alarm at this little ⁓ daycare or whatever, and We get there there's some smoke in there. I think somebody had tried to light it on fire or whatever, but it had you know, the gasoline went burned out before it could catch the building. And ⁓ I found this locked office door. So I tear this thing open and he comes up, he goes, What the fuck are you doing? I said, made the decision to open this door. And he was like, Wha why? You know, I'm like, I don't know, but I but I did it, you know. So it's like You know, you you tell these guys, make the decisions, make the decisions. And you might get your ass tore up for making the decision, but at least you made the decision. So Yeah. He just wanted to see what's on the other side of the door. Yeah, you know, I I think I told him something about ⁓ I don't know, maybe there's an alarm panel in here or something. He's like, Do we bust doors open for alarm panels? I'm like, No, probably not. Yeah, but I I just I mean, if if people give you the tools to make decisions and steer the department as a whole, like take advantage of it. Again, I've been told no plenty of times in my life and I'm sure I'll be told no plenty more times in my life. And if somebody gives me an opportunity, no matter where I'm at, to I'm one of them guys, don't ask my opinion 'cause you're gonna hear it. And you know, some people like it, some people don't. It is what it is. But I think too, it's like, I mean, that's a pretty powerful leadership tool, I think. You know, letting Letting your guys make decisions. It's like, here's the here's the outcome that I want. And then you figure out how to get there, you know? and so then like you're getting the outcome you want, and they also have some ownership in it. And that's I mean, that's pretty important too, creating buy-in and and ⁓ getting that ownership from the guys. But I mean, it just otherwise it it becomes like this is the way I want it done. Do it exactly like this, and then and then nobody wants you know, nobody wants to do it. But that's kind of a fine line too, don't you think? Because on I mean, if you have a new guy, you have to kind of tell him this is the way we do it. ⁓ especially when it comes to like safety issues. Yeah. But ⁓ what just kind of run me through since we're talking about new guys and how to do things, run me through what your typical procedure as a company officer would be for a new guy? ⁓ for us, ⁓ we would have f first and foremost, I think ⁓ it gets a little different between for us between we we have part-time people and ⁓ full-time people, but ⁓ I I think the bar none, what you have to do before anything starts is Day one is set your expectations. If if you do not, I've done it both ways. And if you don't do not set your expectations, even if you get somebody new from a different shift, or in your case, a different house or whatever, ⁓ if you don't set your expectations, how are you supposed to expect anything out of them? You know what I mean? Sure. ⁓ that was more of a failure on our part. Then then it's time to like ⁓ for us, there would be a new guy, there'd be orientation. ⁓ we will, ⁓ just the way our department's set up, that person might work with us for six, seven months before they go to the state fire academy. ⁓ thankfully, we've ⁓ only sent since ⁓ before even I was hired, we've only sent one person to a different fire academy. So it's pretty Pretty similar for everybody. So common experiences. So I think the expectation when they come back, everybody kind of understands then. Yeah. ⁓ I wish we had the opportunity to send people to the academy first before they work today. I think that'd be amazing. Yeah. But we just have that opportunity. ⁓ and then it's just kind of an evaluation period. You know, what are l listen to the other guys? What are they comfortable with with them? Where do they think they're, you know, do they respond better to me teaching them? Or do they respond better to the guys? That's a a big thing too. You know, there there's a lot of times they'd rather go out and, you know, throw the thirty-five foot ladder three times with, you know, the senior guy than they want to go do with the lieutenant watching the whole time or you know, stuff like that. Then it's just evaluation period. And then ⁓ for us it's that, you know, time of getting them in the classes and taking the basically I don't know how long it was for you, but like for us Between medic and ⁓ fire apparatus engineer academy, you know, it's a good two years before they're really a complete functioning part of of the shift. So there's a lot of time to evaluate, help, you know, do probably if you if you got a shift that you've been together for a while, there's probably a little bit more hands-on training ⁓ when that new guy comes, just the evaluation process, ⁓ and just figuring that out that way. Yeah. Is the way I looked at it. Yeah, for us it's like I mean, you're not supposed to ride the unit for ninety days. ⁓ but after that, everybody has their at least their basic. So, I mean, they can be thrown into the fire pretty much as soon as those ninety days are up. ⁓ but it's usually a three year track until you like st well, it's usually three years before you start your medic and then it's a year program. So it might be three or four years ⁓ before you're actually before you've secured your job where you're fully functioning firefighter paramedic. ⁓ and in that time of course you're doing like your your firefighter one and two hazmat. ⁓ and then some kids go and I shouldn't call ⁓ kids, men, they go and ⁓ they go on their own to get their paramedic instead of going to like our our training academy where they have to wait. Yeah, not even waiting to get called up days. Right. Yeah, which is actually it's it's actually a smart way to do it because if you were to if you were to finish in two years, you know, from the time you got hired, then you're making medic pay, you got your job secure. ⁓ but some guys, you know, they'll wait and it might take that four years. The the downside to it is you have to pay for it on your own. But if for some reason you were to like fail out of the class or something happens where you can't, you know, life happens and you can't finish the class, then it doesn't count against your time. ⁓ for your contract. So you could still go through the academy when they call you up. Yeah, I it I just ours come in at so and I'm sure you guys do too with ⁓ laterals and stuff like that is they people come in at such different levels. You know, we're we're hiring three right now, they start next Monday, and you have one that ⁓ all she has to do is pass the fire academy. She's got everything else. And then the other the other two, one's gotta do FAE, one's gotta do ⁓ medic, ⁓ and pest. all of them pass the fire academy, but ⁓ yeah, that it's just crazy how long it can take to I think the city leaders think, ⁓ we just w which I'm very grateful for, just gave you, you know, three people, which is amazing and it's been needed, but ⁓ it's a long time before the they're ready to go and, you know. Right. But well and too, it's like, at least for me here, it it's like you don't wanna You don't feel at home, you know? Like my job's not secure. ⁓ I could something could happen and I could still lose my job, you know. And then the day that you turn your state license in to the training center, like you it's like this weight is lifted off, you know, you're like, finally, like now all they that now all I can get fired for is like fucking up and I gotta fuck up bad. You know, like now it's all now it's all on me. I really gotta screw shit up. Right. I think you can tell when people like we we've just had, you know, just the cycle of our department. We've had a lot of new guys here lately and it's amazing. And ⁓ I I just asked one not too long ago. I'm like, amazing feeling when you have everything done. You know, probation's over, academy's over, medic's over, all that stuff's over. And you can tell they totally change and then they're just it's cool to see from them because we've all been through it. You know what I mean? Like I can, you know, besides being promoted the few times and stuff like that, the most exciting part was like, ⁓ now I can choose which direction I want to go or don't have to go to class this day or, you know. Right. It's an amazing feeling. And it felt I mean, it felt really good because you know, I got I got hired with y'all and I went through the orientation. I went through, you know, my probationary year, and then Like the pretty much the whole time I was with y'all I was practicing to get hired somewhere. You know, the guys were running me through ⁓ you know, fake oral interviews or written, you know, give give me questions for written stuff or you know, or I was constantly studying like roadmaps to try to learn Princeton 'cause I'm not from there, you know. But it's like I was always trying to to learn the job. I was always trying to, you know, get to that point where it's like, Yeah, I know I know how to do my job. And then I get to Memphis and it's like, nope, start over. And start all over from the beginning. Yeah. For three more years. And and it's like now I'm finally to that spot where it's like I feel confident in in doing the the EMS stuff. I feel confident in the fire stuff. Like now the job is fun. You know. It's not so much work. It's it's a lot more fun now. And but the challenge also comes like, well, I want to learn some stuff too. So now where do I go? You know, it's like I just I don't take classes or whatever. I I need to start working on my special op stuff. I got a buddy that's in the the sort program and he keeps bugging me to you know, hey man, take hazmat eye or hazmat tech or take, you know, technical rescue stuff and I'm like, I'm not into men, dude. I just can remember I can just remember like you you just took like I took a breath, you know, I well back then it had been we weren't medics yet. We're advanced I's or ENTIs. I remember getting that done, you know, everything like I kind of went on the, you know, what specialty you're gonna go on. I stuck with the the leadership side, the company officer training, but just having that choice of, okay, just like you're saying, do I wanna D do I want to go do trench? Do I wanna go do hazmat? Do I wanna having that freedom because you got all the hard stuff that's gonna cause you not to have your job done with and ready to want so Right. Man. What ⁓ I mean, what would you say or I guess what do you say to your guys when when they have everything completed and it's like, hey man, congratulations. What's the next thing you say to them to I guess keep ⁓ moving and not let ⁓ get, you know, complacent. 'Cause that that's a very easy thing to do once you get that weight off and you're just I'm done, you know? But and we've had some that they're very good at their job, but they haven't they haven't taken a class since the day they got out of academy or medic school or Yeah. And and they're very but y I don't know. I think you can tell the ones that have that in them and And then you just start encouraging. We're a very ⁓ for the size of our department, I'd put us up against anybody. That's that's the line item in the budget I push the hardest is education. And sure. I don't if if we've had to turn somebody away from class, it's more about staffing than us paying for the class. It's just find find your niche, find your ⁓ you know. You just start asking them, you know, like w what are you interested in? You know, you're gonna find guys that and I don't think it's right, but there's really nothing wrong with it. You're gonna find guys that they're happy just being them and getting through the first stage and going. But, you know, do you got the guy that wants to be, you know, the technical rescue guru? You know, let him go, let him do it. There's gonna be a time and a place as a company officer that they're gonna help you out of a big jam because you don't understand what's going on. I was never I don't I think I took technical rescue awareness and like twenty-eight years ago. That's as much as I've never cared about technical rescue. But ⁓ you know, do you have the guy that likes car extrication? You know, I I don't know. I I was always the one that good EMS calls loved them. ⁓ the BS EMS calls, I I don't know. I I was always the one that was into fire. Yeah. And not much else. I I am asthmatic, but that was because it was held at the station. No, I think you just encourage people to like find your niche in the fire surf. There's plenty of things to do in the fire service that somebody can find what makes them excited, what makes keeps them going. Yeah. Is basically and we've got a just a damn good group of guys and it seemed to be a girl that they there's a few of them and you know a few of them. They're not gonna let you sit around very often without the chief company officer saying anything or you know, th they're gonna push to get him somewhere. Not in a disrespectful way. They just wanna see him succeed too. Right. Yeah, you know, hey, come out here, hey, we're doing something, come out here, you know. And that was one thing that I really liked about Princeton. And not that we're not that way, but the I mean, the whole culture was like, Hey guys, ⁓ we're gonna go do this. You wanna do it with us? Or Hey, the guys are out there, why don't you go join them? You know, it was like ever I mean, everybody was always together, you know. And there are I mean, there's places where in Memphis where, you know, you get your chores done in the morning and then everybody kind of splits up or, you know, you do also have those houses where they do everything together or maybe you get a mixture, you know, but that was like I I really appreciated Princeton working in Princeton because it gave me I felt like it gave me a good solid foundation. of like what I wanted in the in the fire service. You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean there's ⁓ there there's sometimes where if the guy stops in front, they all fucking run into the back of them. You know what I mean? That's how much they're together. ⁓ as a company officer sometimes like we always call them our safety lunch naps being on the the forty eight ninety six schedule. And ⁓ and I I would try to sneak out of there just to have some alone time. And that's not an insult. It's just ⁓ y you get them shifts that they're close knit, they do stuff together and ⁓ for the most part you s you still see it there, you know, like yeah I just asked one of you to come with me, not the whole shift. It's a great thing. Great thing most. Yeah. Well I remember like waking up in the chair a couple of times and like not seeing you over in your recliner and I'm like, fuck, he's up there doing something. Like I need to go do something. And I'll walk in and say he's in the report room or something and I'll be like, ⁓ getting away. He's like, Yeah, now I understand what you're trying to say, but we're always scared shitless. I'm like, you guys can you know, yeah. He's run four or five calls last night and didn't get any sleep. I don't care if you care how long you sleep, it's just sometimes I have to get away and, you know, get my shit done with no audience. So It's funny too, because Like, you know, maybe you make an out of town transfer and however many runs over the night and ⁓ it didn't matter if it was you, Joe, or Luke, but y'all would be like, Hey, just, you know, sleep in. ⁓ well, we'll get started when y'all get up. And it was like we've all talked about it. All right, I'll set a thirty minute timer, you know, like it's just like I don't want to sleep in too late. ⁓ you know, I don't want ⁓ to be upset or whatever. I I wanna be a good worker, you know, but it's like I know I know now y'all didn't Give a shit. But it back then it was like, okay, thir thirty minutes, that'll be good, you know. I can remember telling people like, you know, you don't you don't ever want to say like, now that's an order. Like, get your ass downstairs, sleep. We'll wake you up for lunch. I don't give a shit. But yeah, you know, all I care is you wake up and go on a call when you've ran that hard the night before. So yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But that's important. I mean, I mean, shit, 'cause there'd be times when you I mean you'd start running in the morning and you couldn't get a nap. And that makes for a long forty eight hours. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I I know I had talked to Eli and Nick about the twenty four seventy two schedule. They had heard about it. ⁓ is that something that y'all are looking into or no? I would say ⁓ I think it'd be amazing. ⁓ I think it'd be amazing for the guys. I don't know. ⁓ I'm gonna talk administratively now. I know of a lot of firefighters like hearing that. I I don't see the city having the money to keep the same staffing level to add another shift. And I think I think that would be the touching point. ⁓ I get it. I understand it. And I I'm not gonna lie and say I wouldn't have liked it when I was on shift. So ⁓ it'd be something where if money was no object, I think it'd be the obvious choice to go to. ⁓ Sure. And I'm speaking from somebody that come from twenty four forty eight and ⁓ stumbled upon the idea from a guy out west on the forty eight ninety-six and ⁓ love the forty eight ninety-six, the time I got to work it, but I think the twenty four seventy two might even be a little bit better. But I I can't speak of it because I've never really worked it. But sure. ⁓ I I think it you know, from a administrative standpoint. I see the benefits of it for the guys ⁓ having to listen to the city at time or listen to the city, you know, be part of the leadership team of the city. Mm-hmm. I I I don't know how they'd afford an extra ⁓ shoot. I mean, you're man, that that's a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ 'cause how many guys do y'all have per shift now? ⁓ we have ⁓ as of Monday we'll have five full timers per shift and then ⁓ we do the part time that pretty much well you know how it is. You're pretty much full time, you just don't get all the benefits. ⁓ there's only one ⁓ sign so six. ⁓ we doing a building edition, so we'll have room through seven. My plan was is to have the full five full timers per shift and then hopefully, you know, our part time program, ⁓ have two people assigned to each shift from that. So ⁓ Yeah. That'd be awesome. Yeah. That'd be awesome. And like 'cause when I was there, what it was three. Well there's four full timers, but one would usually be off the second day. ⁓ I don't know if I don't know if I think we're only letting five work when you were there, right? Yeah. Is there only five per shift, including the part timers? Yeah. Now it's ⁓ now it's As of Monday, we'd we'd let seven be there. ⁓ that's awesome. That five six range, yeah. So how to do you have four you have four on the engine or th still three? ⁓ we haven't really went through that. We've talked about it. ⁓ it sounds like it's gonna be by four on the engine, two on the truck. ⁓ but once we get to that seven, that'll be another discussion that we have a meeting in a couple of weeks. And again, ask them. Guys, what they think. Right. Yeah. ⁓ no, that's also. I do have strong opinions about that, but Yeah, I don't know. I I I it if you go down that road, I'm I'm one that the sooner you the bigger engine company you have, the sooner you can lead that line, the sooner you can get that water on the fire, the better everything becomes. ⁓ Right. Well, because like y'all Most fire departments in the the country, they don't have, you know, forty five firemen showing up at the same time. So, I mean, it really you really have to plan out the best way to show up and be the most effective. You know, like some I think well, I know for sure the guys that have never worked in a small department, they take that for granted. But sometimes the guys that move, you know, to Memphis or whatever from a small area, they forget sometimes that it's like We don't have all the manpower right away. You know, we gotta do the most we can with what little we got. Yeah. Yeah, we ⁓ like when I started, ⁓ you know, if there was an ambulance call going on, man, it was it was not good. ⁓ you know, a lot of your fires were fought with three people, ⁓ including that's including the engineer. So you and the officer going in and you know how it is. ⁓ we have very good relationships. ⁓ and two of our relationships are auto aid with volunteer departments, but you with ⁓ agriculture around here, you take spring or fall in the middle of the week at two o'clock in the afternoon. You'd be lucky if help shown up in fifteen minutes, seriously. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that that makes it tough. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know what show I don't know what would happen if you Like all of a sudden showed up and there was like four apparatus on scene as a chief. I w I wouldn't know what to do. Go go do something. Yeah. Sweep the rocks off their driveway. I don't know. Yeah. Well, I mean, I remember like fires would take a while, you know, back home. Like I I mean, especially like in Walnut and it it's nothing against them. It's just that like a fire takes four or five hours. And like The first time I made a wasn't a big house fire, but like a decent house fire here, like we were back in service in two hours and I was like What was that? You know, like what just happened? You know, but it's a I it's waiting for somebody to bring food 'cause Yeah. That's a problem here there. Exactly. But And I think that's what's was crazy to me was coming, you know, I come from an even smaller town than you did. And what was amazing to me is, you know, like we would always show up in Tampico and and it's not You know, sometimes I was the closest one to the fire station and ⁓ I was five miles away. Yeah. And we were showing up you're you're showing up probably in the fully developed or even the DK stage. You know, it it was long set into the structure. And then when I got to Princeton the first few times I'd never seen it before and you don't think until you go back to your fire behavior. We're showing up during the flashover. You know what I mean? Right. Like what was a complete game changer to me. Like, yeah, ⁓ yeah, but they taught us in And your basic operations firefighter of these stages of fire. We just jumped a couple stages earlier and this is a lot more dangerous now. Right. Well, and I think like, I mean, er volunteers get a lot of shit for, you know, being foundation savers or whatever, but but again, people don't take into consideration the the amount of time it takes to get paid from your place of employment and then you know, get to your vehicle because like you, you might be miles away from the shop, you might be, you know, five minute walk from your truck, whatever. And then you have to drive there, you know, and then get dressed, get the equipment, and then you're responding. You know, it might it may take ten minutes just and you're trying as hard as you can. It might take ten minutes to even respond. And I mean, there's nothing you can do about that. No. And I we and I don't think of people we we all do the same job. Some of us get paid a little bit more and Right. You know what I mean? It's just I don't know, I spent eight years as a volunteer firefighter and thankfully that's one thing I'd never forgotten. And ⁓ Yeah. Kudos. And you know what? If I'd never been hired full time by a fire department, ⁓ I would still be being a volunteer firefighter. I have a I have a father that's seventy two years old and still's a tender driver. He y you know what I mean? So Yeah, I yeah, kudos to them. I yeah. I don't know. I just can't today's ⁓ day regulations and stuff, man, that's yeah, I don't Yeah. Yeah. I just I can remember getting a Princeton that first year like, what the hell's happening here? And then like you said, like even smaller department like ours, but it's career when you can get there when it's you know, in that, you know, just room and contents or two rooms and contents and you get to go home. Not the roof blowing off of it once you pull up on the scene, so Right. Yeah. No, that's I mean, it's a crazy difference, but I mean I wouldn't I don't know. I wouldn't trade it for what I got now. You know, like I'm I'm at the Disneyland of firefighting, as I as I like to call it. You know, it's it's just a good time, you know what I mean? Yeah. No yeah, you're gonna go to the department. Is it still there, Cody? Yeah, there it came back. It just came back. Okay. ⁓ well man, is there anything that you would say to maybe guys that are coming on or guys that are getting ready to get promoted, ⁓ guys that are, you know, finishing up their careers or whatever, anything that you would throw out there as maybe a tip or or anything you want to say? I just think I I think at times I see people that like if if you hold like I can remember like like I said, I was a volunteer for eight years. ⁓ I I come in in the day and age where right after September eleventh where everybody wanted to be a fireman, I can remember coming to Princeton and I s still live back in Tampico. And I got handed my first two t shirts to come to shift. And me and my wife, our dining room set was a card table with four folding chairs. And I set them, them t shirts on them folding chairs. And I just stared at them because I'd wanted it for so long. Yeah. I didn't like anything I did in the past, man. And and I loved it. And I'm gonna be ready to retire. I'm not gonna say that, but ⁓ I loved I never not didn't want to not go to work. And all of us have had jobs in the past and trying to get in the fire service. I think that's that's my my message is when you get in a rough place, this is what I did. I would think back to that time of walking upstairs in my upstairs duplex apartment in a town of seven hundred people and throwing the two t shirts on the back of that chair and being like, I got it. And No matter where I stuck or when you know, when you you're gonna have bad days, you're gonna have bad stretches, you're gonna have all this stuff. It's just reflect of how excited you were when you got hired and you know, or caught that first fire, or, you know, saved that first person in cardiac arrest or had that difficult extrication or anything like that. Like hold on to the highlights and reflect back to ⁓ once you start getting and that that's still what I, you know. I'm thirty years in and I remember putting them T shirts on the back of the chair like it was yesterday. And yeah. ⁓ it's a great profession. I mean, like I don't understand how it I don't you know, the supply and demand's changed. Of you know what I mean? Like w when I was trying to get in, there was not much demand and a heck of a supply of firefighters. Now it's flipped. There's a lot of demand and not much I I don't understand people these days. It's yeah. most rewarding I mean, obviously there's dangers of it, but there's dangers to walking across the street and ⁓ what a calling, what a career, what a I mean, you get to I mean I always compared it to like when people ask what it's like as a firehouse, I'm like, it's a frat house without the alcohol. It and that it's fun. I it should be and I don't know, the time I got to this job allowed me to spend with my kids before they got into school. I mean like There's nothing I can't say negative about it. Was there negative periods in it? Yeah, ⁓ yeah. But man, I mean, how many of us get to you know, I I don't know. I could go on forever, but ⁓ reflect back, reflect why you wanted to get on there. Don't lose sight of that. Remember what you did before when you hated the job before you get hired in the fire service. ⁓ when you get to that lieutenant thing, I mean, you know, empower your guys, let them make decisions, but yet You know, people want to be led by good leaders. Lead ⁓ Yeah. That's kind of my message. That makes sense. Yeah, no, I love it because I think sometimes we do forget that. You know, when you're when you're on your fifth call after midnight and four of ⁓ have been toe pain, it's like, you know, re remember that that's the job you wanted. You know, because for for as many times as you're gonna do that, you're gonna get to do the the fun shit as we call it, but like the stuff that you really do make a difference, you know, like my take, I I'm in a I'm in a pretty, you know, ⁓ I don't know the best way to say it, but it's not a great area. And you know, you have a lot of of those BS calls, ⁓ but you get a lot of the ones where you get the chance to make a difference too. You know, and you have a lot of fire duty. And but the way I've always looked at it is you gotta pay to play. So, you know, for as much as you want all the glorious stuff like going to fires and, you know, doing the the fun EMS calls, like you still have to pay the price of that. And that is, you know, doing the chores at the station, you know, making making grandma who's got, you know, constipation for three months, you know, whatever it is, you know, you gotta pay to play. And and I think that's You know, similar to what you're saying is like when you get down in those times where it's like this is not fun anymore, I'm not enjoying this, like think back to when you got hired and how good that felt. And I I like that. I like that a lot. Yeah, I mean and some of the calls you've been complimented on the most, what I've seen are some of the most where we think they're BS and we're just going in being nice and courteous and you've made their day, you know. Yeah. But but I just I can't imagine I I never ran into a s long period where I disliked the job or wasn't motivated in the job. And I don't I I think I think that's why, because I kind of remembered where I come from and ⁓ remembered how excited I was and how much of an honor it is to do what we get to do. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, man, I appreciate you coming on here. for those of y'all that have been listening that don't know, this is my first lieutenant that I've had ever had in my career. And I have learned a lot from you. I still learn a lot every time we talk. And I appreciate you and everything you do for the fire service and taking the opportunity to come on here and and shoot the shit with me. Yeah, I was honored to be asked. ⁓ very proud and talk quite a bit, you know, what you've accomplished and what you're doing now. And ⁓ I think this podcast is amazing. I'm not I'm that age where podcasting's not that big of a deal to me 'cause it's just not but ⁓ the word you're spreading and the people you're getting on keep up the good work and it's ⁓ just honored to be on. And there goes that. No, I mean, I appreciate it. ⁓ you know, the pleasure's all mine, so but Are you back? Yeah. Can you hear me? Are you still there? There you go. Yep. Well, like I said, man, thanks again. ⁓ I don't know. I think I lost you again. I can see you again. All right. Well I'm gonna close this out. If you guys have enjoyed this episode, ⁓ like I said, don't be afraid to leave a review or hit the like button. It's the easiest way to ⁓ share the show, let let the platforms know to share the show. It also doesn't cost you a dime, so that's pretty good in this economy. ⁓ again, check out Engine House Designs at enginehouse designs dot com for all of your custom apparel needs. Email me at enginehousepodcast at gmail.com if you'd like to be a guest, want to see a guest, or if you have some ideas. And ⁓ of course, subscribe and hit the notification bell so you can get notified every single time. That's all we got for this week. We'll see y'all in two weeks. Stay safe and ignite the pride.