When Persistence Becomes a Leadership Mistake

speaker-0: lived as a veritable hermit for about eleven years. Didn't even open the shades. I didn't go outside. I had run out of friends long before that. But that was safe. You know, 'cause like I mean it was predictable. I might be miserable, but there won't be anything un un unpredictable about that. So whenever we make a connection, it's there's a danger.
speaker-1: How long did you carry a shield of having to be your own protector before you realized it was maybe keeping you from seeing the other people around you and
speaker-0: Fifty years. The phrase is go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated. But ⁓ I would rather be alone than with the wrong people.
speaker-1: The sudden disruptions in your life. The missed flights, the unexpected falls, and the terrifying boundaries you're afraid to draw are not obstacles pulling you away from your path, but your inner self violently shaking you awake. Before we dive into today's episode, I have a quick favor to ask you. If you enjoy the show, it would mean the absolute world to me if you could take five seconds to head over to our YouTube and hit that subscribe button. It really helps the channel grow and let us bring even better content. All right, let's get into it. We live in a culture that treats the human experience like a software update. Everything needs to be optimized, mapped out, and delivered with guaranteed return on investment. But every now and then you encounter someone. Who looks at the entire matrix of modern certainty and quietly steps out of it. When I asked today's guest what specific problem this episode should solve for you, the listener, his response stopped me. He didn't give me a framework or a three-step formula. He said, I don't think along those lines. I prefer that the connection unfold organically. Let's answer the question after we've had the conversation. Think about that sheer courage of that stance in an era of hyper curated personal brands, he chose to show up completely unarmored. David, we're looking at each other through screens across the miles right now, virtually meeting for the very first time in this exact moment. Well, for you it's a Tuesday, for me it's a Monday. No pre interview, no rehearsed chemistry. My opening question for you is why has our modern world become so terrified of a space that has no agenda?
speaker-0: Wow. ⁓ that's that's a great way to to open up. I think ⁓ we fear space in general, like ⁓ silence and ⁓ quietness and that sort of thing and self-reflection. And ⁓ like so the thing about branding, you know, the way that I answered your question, ⁓ people wanna say, okay, I want to have this and that and the other thing, have the listeners take away this and that and the other thing. ⁓ The thing about that is that I think that puts us in a box, right? Where like if you say, Who am who are you? Who am I? ⁓ what are you all about? ⁓ I could say, you know, I I'm a fiction writer, I'm a nonfiction writer, I'm a drummer, I'm this, I'm that, I'm an educator. But the thing is, how about what if I don't even know who I am yet? What if I go down to the beach pretty much every day and sort of reflect and pray and meditate and I'm still finding myself and like I don't know. How I'm going to show up today, whether I'm going to show up as somebody who ⁓ wrote an inner child book and you want to talk about that because, you know, we want to talk about, you know, how to heal, or ⁓ do we want to talk about creativity? I'm on that line of things too and education. And so, you know, the thing is, I've been, if you I've been splitting myself up ⁓ in a way because I have these two sub stacks. I have fiction on one side and nonfiction on the other. I have an Instagram that kind of blew up a bit with drums and whatnot. And ⁓ At a certain point I just said, you know, I I'm just me and I wanna sort of get the word out that, you know, these are the things that I do. And if you vibe with what I'm all about, then you know, check out what I do. But, you know, when it comes to like figuring out like ⁓ a script for a for a podcast, I have no idea. Man, I've done like a whole bunch of them in the last couple of months and they've gone like in so many different directions that I never would have imagined possible if I'd pre planned it. So ⁓ and you know, the way that this started out, I'm a little bit nervous because I'm thinking I hope I do show up one way or the other. But, you know, I mean that's kind of that's kind of where that's
speaker-1: That raw presence is exactly why we're here. And for the record, not all of my shows follow a script of here's what we're gonna say at every moment. It's more to gather the kind of questions I want to ask the guest, but to come in not knowing where we're gonna go or what I should potentially probe you on. I'm I'm excited to see it. It'll be my first one where there's not a lot of direction. But other than that, I'll say alchemists, welcome to the Elemental Educator. Today I'm virtually sitting across from David. David writes about profound loss, addiction. Creative expression, wellness, recovery, and the return of voice after damage. His mother died under tragic circumstances when he was four, a fact that followed him into every room he ever entered. He later spent nearly 10 years as a drummer and show creator at Disney and Universal, performing joy while privately carrying wounds he had not yet found words for. After 11 years of isolation, his work returned through Wounded Angels, written from the middle of the healing process rather than from the polished finish line. Inner Child Journal continues the recovery conversation through shorter reflections, audio and podcast work, and healing-centered essays. His website is the broader author home where readers can find both the healing, nonfiction work, and his science fiction. David, welcome to the Elemental Educator Podcast. It is my pleasure to host you here today.
speaker-0: Wow, that was an amazing introduction. I want to use it on my own ⁓ website. I I'll tell you, thank you so much for the kind words. ⁓ yeah, that's that's pretty much ⁓ encapsulates what I've been all about recently. And I'm really grateful to be here. It's I mean, it's just amazing to connect with people all over the world. and it's I'm I'm just loving the energy and it's really nice to connect with you, Tyler.
speaker-1: Thank you. I guess we should actually let the listeners know. So where in the world are you?
speaker-0: ⁓ I am outside Tokyo, Japan, basically suburban Tokyo, but I live ⁓ on Tokyo Bay and sort of on the river side, so I'm a little bit out of the chaos of the city, although Tokyo is probably the least chaotic mega city in the world, if that makes any sense.
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah. Whenever whenever I get someone from the future and you're from the future for me, by the way. ⁓ we always get them to just predict maybe something lucky, an event, a special number for people. Do you have a prediction?
speaker-0: the recent prediction has been revolving around earthquakes here, 'cause we had like three earthquakes in the last like three days. So definitely not hoping for that prediction, but it's like feeling a little bit unstable in the future here.
speaker-1: Okay, so maybe the prediction is get ready for a little unstabless. Maybe that's a sign for for where we are. Okay, so we're gonna go through four elemental segments. We're gonna go through earth, air, water, fire, our values, our adversity, change, and decision making. So without further ado, I'll kick off our first segment of grounded moments. Three, two, one. So as always, we begin with Earth, the element of foundations, identity, and the core values that keep us from snapping when the w when the wines of life howl. David, for your grounding quote, you gave me three deceptively simple words. Easy does it. To a world addicted to the hustle, easy does it sounds like an excuse to coast, but to someone who has done the deep, heavy lifting of inner child work, those words usually represent a hard fought. treaty with a mind that uses sorry, with a mind that's used to fight for survival. Take me back to a moment in your life where the forcing, the straining, the striving finally broke you and easy does it became your anchor.
speaker-0: yeah, I I've had moments in my life ⁓ where I really got despondent enough to think, you know, I'm just done. And ⁓ when I when I think easy does it, I think ⁓ not an excuse to coast, but r more to the point if we're doing like incredibly deep and meaningful work, whether it's outer or inner creative work, inner work. ⁓ it can be a lot more overwhelming than we realize. And then we tend to push ourselves or I can only speak for myself really, but I tend to push myself beyond my limits to a point where then, you know, I crack and then, like, ⁓ maybe I'll, you know, turn to drugs, or maybe I'll ⁓ you know, check out of life for a while, or maybe I'll, you know, gain a bunch of weight. And he's gonna I've gone through all that. I used to be a hundred pounds heavier. ⁓ I had ⁓ addiction issues, ⁓ substances and people, codependency and that kind of thing. So ⁓ these days when I think easy does it, I think along the lines of like, okay, I've done a lot. ⁓ what can I do for self-care so that I can show up tomorrow and do it again? Or so I can show up for somebody else. Because the thing is, when ⁓ you know, I like to help people, I like to the reason I'm out here You know, I wrote a book and I'm talking about the book because I hope it'll be helpful to share my experience. It's a very vulnerable thing to do, but I wanted to do it. But the thing is for me to show up for other people, I have to be in tip top tip top condition. You know what I mean? And so that means ⁓ spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically healthy. And so yeah, easy does it is is just a is a is a reminder. It's a check-in to say, you know, how overwhelmed am I today? What have I done that I'm not even noticing? Because I can be very self-critical and I can be like busy all morning doing a whole bunch of stuff, podcast recording, edit a book, this and that, and then say, Man, I haven't done anything today. It's almost noon. What's wrong with me? You know what I mean? And it's like, ⁓ wait. Yeah. And then I actually liter have to go through it intellectually and say, ⁓ no, actually you did A, B, C, D, E. And now it's time for, you know, to take a rest a little bit.
speaker-1: You mentioned that your personal boundaries are the one hill you're absolutely willing to die on today. But you added a little bit of context. You said that this wasn't always the case. So when you look back at that version of David who allowed his boundaries to be, I'm gonna use the words walked over. What was that version of you trying to protect? And what was the cost of finally standing your ground?
speaker-0: the cost of finally standing my ground to go backwards is ⁓ I lost some relationships that I cared about. But in the end, those relationships were not healthy for either of us. And I didn't lose all the relationships. There were there were some relationships where there was mutual growth. And so we were able to in enrich and deepen the relationships. But boundaries, I used to hate the word and I used to think boundaries were a weapon that everybody got to use against me. And that I didn't have any right to have boundaries because like I would go ninety percent or ninety-five percent or ninety-nine percent to try to meet somebody and they wouldn't even meet me and because they weren't real invested in the relationship or it it wasn't a good situation. And and I, you know, these days I can see it, but back then I was so broken when it came to forming and maintaining friendships and relationships. I couldn't do it. It was a mystery to me. It was like, you know, other people can make friends. I cannot. I'm not likable. I'm not lovable. I'm not whatever. I'm I'm off putting. I'm this and that. I'm none of these things, by the way. This was all trauma related. And but this was most of my life I went through that. Even as a kid, I couldn't have ⁓ peer friendships. And so for me it's like boundaries. Well, they all put boundaries up against me and what can I do about it? Because I'm gonna lose that friendship if I don't do everything that they want. And if I put up a boundary, I'm gonna lose that friendship because you know they're just tolerating me. And I'll tell you one thing, ⁓ a phrase that I love that the first time I heard it, I thought it was garbage. I thought, no way will this ever be my story. The phrase is go where you're celebrated, not where you're tolerated. Right. And at the time I thought, no, I'm only worth being tolerated, like at best. Like that's it. I'll tell you what, the places I go these days, I'm celebrated and I celebrate the people I'm with and it happened, but it took time. It took I probably heard that phrase maybe five or six years ago and I didn't believe it. And it's taken a lot. And the inner child work had a huge amount to do with it. Huge.
speaker-1: Makes me think back to ⁓ whenever I have guests on the show, they bring that quote on. And ⁓ one of them, my guests was Michael Sat, and he brought on a quote of rising tides raise all ships. And it's just that idea of when you're with people that build you up, you only continue to build higher and higher. You know, David, to map out these boundaries live, let's play a game called Principle or Preference. I have ten distinct statements built directly from your philosophy, and you just have to tell me if it's a non negotiable. non-negotiable principle for human alignment or to you or simply just a situational preference. We're not going to overthink it. We'll ⁓ easy does it, we'll say, and just give me your raw, your raw instinct on principle or preference. Okay. Here we go. So the first one stepping into a conversation with absolutely zero agenda or a desired outcome. Principle or preference.
speaker-0: ⁓ preference. I'll I'll go with the flow on that, but I was glad that you resonated with it. There we go.
speaker-1: You go. I should say we have no time to justify answers on this either. It's just quick bang, one word. Okay. What next one is walking walking away from people who refuse to acknowledge their own unhealed trauma. I don't do that. So it's a preference then we would go to, but it would be a preference that
speaker-0: Okay. Yeah.
speaker-1: Throw it out. So a third option is completely throw it out. Next one for you would be requiring an apology from people you can fully ⁓ before you can actually forgive someone.
speaker-0: throw it out.
speaker-1: Whirl it out. There we go. I'm gonna get some good questions from you after this. We'll go with option C on these. Keeping your deepest healing insights private versus sharing them on a public forum.
speaker-0: I'm going with options. I'm going with options. Yeah.
speaker-1: Principle Trusting the body's physical signals over the mind's logical plan. Principle believing that every toxic adult behavior is just a terrified child pulling a lever behind the curtain. Principle choosing absolute isolation over superficial connection during a personal crisis. Principle refusing to offer advice to someone even when they're begging you to tell them what to do.
speaker-0: Mm. That's a case by case prior.
speaker-1: There we go. I finally got a preference from ya. Upending a months long plan, the exact moment your inner peace feels threatened.
speaker-0: ⁓ man, that actually happened to me last month. So yeah, principal.
speaker-1: Prioritizing emotional safety over professional or creative growth. Principle. Okay, so we have some unpacking to do. ⁓ because we had some option C's here, you know, like walking away from people who ⁓ refuse to acknowledge their own unhealed trauma. We went to option C, which is this is a horrible statement, throw it out the door. And I might bring it back up later in another game that we'll play. Why did we throw that one out?
speaker-0: ⁓ I don't walk away from people as a matter of course. I you know, I do believe in the idea of no contact in some cases, but that's a personal thing. It's not ⁓ it's nothing to do with the other person. It's to do with, you know, protecting your own ⁓ emotional and mental health in some extreme cases. ⁓ but by and large, I don't walk away from people. I I might take a break and I might even say, you know, look, let's ⁓ let's like give me a call next month, something like that. But walk I mean, I I've seen so much ⁓ people just delusional to what's going on and so was I. And I understand how that is, and I have a lot of empathy and Yeah, a lot of empathy for that, a lot of love for the people that are going through that. And generally if they're talking to me about it, they're probably trying to break through the d the delusion. So yeah, I don't I don't tend to walk away.
speaker-1: Like that. And and you know, another one here was and I I think I know where we might go, but let's go here anyway. Requiring the explicit apology from someone before you can fully forgive them was ⁓ throw that out the door. And I know at least for kids, right? Whenever they do something wrong, they're told go say you're sorry. And I battle with that all the time because what if they don't mean it? What if they don't want to? What if that what if the other person doesn't care if they do or not? But why is why did we throw that out?
speaker-0: Well, first of all, apology is such a you know, I mean in this these days, you know, that whole, you know, you go make an apology because it'll be better for business. And like you can tell the people you know, that kind of thing. It's ⁓ it's safe space and all these to me I don't believe necessarily in apologies. I more believe in ⁓ amending our behavior. So it's if I say, Look, I did something and I regret it and I am I don't promise to not do it ever again because I don't make promises like that, but I say I'm gonna do my best to not do it again because the last thing I want to do is go and apologize twice. You know, so it's and I went through some ⁓ mental health issues and I'll talk about that openly. ⁓ I was diagnosed with bipolar and I do agree with the diagnosis. I have a very I would say a pretty mild case. I I maintain it with groundedness, meditation, reflection, and calm. But occasionally the depression can catch up to me. Occasionally the hypomania gets to me and I'll be. ⁓ and the thing about hypomania and bipolar disorder is ⁓ your impulse control just goes to zero. You know, so like I'll I'll have a situation where like I'll stress somebody out by sending ten ten. I don't do this so much anymore, but say five years ago, I would send like a whole bunch of texts, like, are you okay? And this goes to the codependency too. Are you okay? Are we okay? Are you are we still okay? You know, and and like I would stress people out with my ⁓ frantic ⁓ outreach and concern. And then I would go and want to apologize, but it's like, well, I mean, this was a mental health thing. I didn't have impulse control. I regret it. I wish it wasn't so. I'm doing my best to treat it. But at the same time, I was giving myself some forgiveness there and and explaining. And I also think I educated some people on that that issue as well. Cause it's like it's not an excuse, but it's like these are the facts of my mental condition at this time. It's, you know, it's almost like if somebody had a sprained ankle and then they weren't keeping up with you. You know, if they explain, well, I sprained my ankle, so can we slow down? This is just ⁓ you know, a fact of the of what what's going on. And again, I talk about those four elements of health, mental, physical, spiritual, and emotional. And so that's that goes to mental health, not emotional. I could be very emotionally okay, but still like my mental, you know, I've I've got depression, which can sneak up on a person and get and then I can get very self-abusive because, ⁓ you you piece of crap, you haven't done anything in a week and ⁓ wait, ⁓ that sounds like depression. And like as soon as I notice it, as soon as it hits me, then I then I can manage it. But it these things can sneak up on you. So again, when it comes to apology or something like that, it's like, okay, I'll do the best I can to change my to change my behavior or what I've done. I regret it. It it hurts my heart. Let's have a conversation about that. That's fine. But I don't require apologies. Like forgiveness, I just try to let go. When it comes to forgiveness, I think everybody's in the space that they're in.
speaker-1: It's a really good way to put it. And as we start to talk about, you know, mental health, wellness, some of the adversity we're facing, I think it's a good segue to jump into the air element of headwinds and tailwinds. ⁓ This might be one of the more unique conversations, one of the more uncomfortable conversations I've had on the show before. And so for people listening, I think it's a very needed conversation. And and David, in the intake form, you said you were happy to go here and and have this conversation. And I think there's a powerful piece to it ⁓ to talk about. You were incredibly candid in the notes that you did share that the death of your mother when you were a child was the crux of your trauma. And your healing, writing, the entire origin story of your inner child work. When when a child loses a mother, the world loses its predictability to the child. The mind has to build that immediate structural defense mechanisms just to keep breathing. Take me back to that young boy shortly after her passing. What was the exact story or lie that your childhood self created about the world or about? himself just to survive the loss.
speaker-0: ⁓ wow. Yeah, that's thank you for asking. It is it is ⁓ not easy for some people to talk about. Wasn't easy for me to talk about for a long time, but I also recognize that ⁓ other people have gone through it. Some people have gone through worse, some people lose both parents or or have parents that are ⁓ monstrous in some way. And so that's just it. They're your caregivers. That's these are your gods when you're you know, when you're when you're a kid, that's it. Your parents are it, your mother, your father, and especially the mother, I think. ⁓ even more so there's a bond that just is unbreakable. And ⁓ then it was broken. So my mother was ⁓ unwell. ⁓ she took her own life, but this is something I learned later. It's I learned that when I was nine, and that's that was even worse, ⁓ in a sense because so I I don't remember her and I was f just turned four, so there was ⁓ the you know, the story of my mother was almost like hearing about a fictional, ⁓ she was so wonderful, she was such an angel, she was so great. And so I, you know, constructed this whole ⁓ you know, story about this, you know, this beautiful angel that loved me but then went away. You know, that kind of all crashed and burned when I learned that she had killed herself. ⁓ and the shame attack that I got, the the toxic shame that I ⁓ I didn't know what it was when I was nine, but now looking back and all the inner child work. I see what that was, ⁓ was ⁓ just about unbearable and and reinforced the whole I'm not likable, I'm not lovable. It's it makes sense that the kids don't like me. It makes sense that that I'm always in trouble. ⁓ so that was all garbage. That was all trauma and scapegoating. I know that's all not true. I I've said so many times, I wish I had a time machine so I could just like go back and grab that kid and hang out with him for weeks and just hug ⁓ and let ⁓ talk and explain things. but anyway, yeah, it's ⁓ you know, it was it was transformational. It was it was my identity. A lot of it, you know, whenever I got in trouble, ⁓ David's in trouble because his mother died, you know, that kind of thing. David has behavioral problems because his mother died. There was not a lot of ⁓ acknowledgement of the unwellness of the other adults in my life. My dad was alcoholic. ⁓ And caregivers were not looking at their own unwellness. And on the flip side, I have a daughter and I had substance addiction problems through most of her childhood until she was fourteen. So I've been on both sides of that. I know what she went through and and I would do anything to take it back. But the thing is, you know, when your caregivers are unwell, ⁓ and they're not seeing it, then the scapegoat takes the brunt of that. So, you know, for me, it was rough. And I I used to diminish it so much too, even as an adult. ⁓ yeah, you know, my mom died, but everybody has problems. You know, and it's like and but when you look at the at the timeline of what happened to me, ⁓ Gabor Mate talks about ⁓ his trauma as a ch as a kid, because he was in Nazi occupied territory and his mother had to give him away for some period of time. I don't know, days or weeks or months, and that was traumatic for an infant. And this that's that's like a big part of his story, which is moving and and profound. And what I realized was, my mom was hospitalized right after I was born for postpartum depression. So the same thing happened to me as an infant. And that wasn't even that didn't even factor into my thought about what kind of traumas had I gone through. And the other thing is when my mom died, the entire family disintegrated. My mother's whole side, the the grandparents divorced. ⁓ The aunt went away. ⁓ she had a husband and he disappeared too. So I actually lost five or six ⁓ key figures at one time. So it was really like the house exploded kind of thing. And I never really gave a lot of thought to that until much, much later when I started to unpack like what did this kid go through? You know, like if it was an if it was a third party, if it was a kid that I was just hearing about, I'd be like, ⁓ my God, how can we take care of this kid? Like he needs a lot, a lot, a lot. And ⁓ and I started to give myself that.
speaker-1: So and thank you for sharing, but you you mentioned you could go back and spend weeks and time with your younger self if you had like an hour and you could only leave them with a note or two. What would you want to leave?
speaker-0: Mm-hmm. Man, I was doing this just yesterday. I was down on the beach and I was I was kind of reflective because I was having an inner inner child moment. Or I mean it's still going on. I'm still, ⁓ you mentioned the upcoming book, Inner Child Unleashed. That's the second book, and there's probably a third one in there because I'm kind of chronicling the the healing journey. And and so last night I was sort of tapping in with that kid, and ⁓ I just kept repeating, none of it's your fault. They're very unwell. None of it's your fault. They're very unwell. None of it's your fault. They're very unwell. And that was cause the thing is I didn't want to I don't want to condemn the people that raised me. It's not I forgave them a long time ago. I ⁓ but still you can acknowledge they didn't mean to do it, but it was harmful. And so it's like th unwellness. I just the word unwell, it helps me 'cause it's like it's not they we're not talking about monsters. We're not talking about assholes, we're not talking about anything like that. We're talking about people who ⁓ were doing the best they could, but they still do harm, just like I was doing the best I could and I still did harm. And once you get to that point and you realize it, then you can we're talking about apologies and amends. That's when you you know might have a chance to start doing that kind of thing. And me and my daughter have an amazing relationship. She's twenty two years old and I'm going to see her tomorrow. She lives ⁓ with her mom across town. but yeah, you know, I mean it the healing can happen, but even if it can't, you can heal yourself and you can find ways to to acknowledge what happened without being resentful and condemning the people that were doing the best they could, but they were not well.
speaker-1: Yeah. And grief that encounters us so early in the journey forces us to grow up incredibly fast, creates these hyper-independent adults. How long did you carry a shield of having to be your own protector before you realized it was maybe keeping you from seeing the other people around you and being loved?
speaker-0: Fifty years. Yeah. Yeah. So cause ⁓ I had I had what I would define as a spiritual awakening in twenty twenty, ⁓ on the beach not far from here. And that was the start of being able to see things in a different light in a in a more spiritual and forgiving light. So fifty years, 'cause I'm fifty five now.
speaker-1: So for people listening that you know, you have a chance where they're not waiting fifty years, what advice would you give to them to try to catch this moment or have that have that peace?
speaker-0: Seek help. take you know, do it for yourself. Do whatever you can, try a bunch of different things. ⁓ but I, you know, I it when people are ready, they're ready. And like if somebody's listening to this and what we're saying resonates, then they'll be ready and they'll go. And the like I ⁓ for a long time, I was really and I still am into the book The Power of Nell by Eckhart Tolli. And I like Eckhart Tolli a lot. I like watching his videos. He's very ASMR, he's he sounds like And I believe him when he says that he had like this profound, instantaneous, you know, shift. I th I believe that happens. But I spent years, and this was when I was still drinking and drugging and codependent as hell, reading his book and like trying to do it. And it's like nothing was happening because I was so unwell and I hadn't even I couldn't even see what the problems were. Never mind start to address them. So it's just like, well, I guess I just, you know, suck. Because I can't just, you know, suddenly have an overnight shift into being okay. And I still, even today, my shift was not an overnight shift into being okay. I'm a lot better than I used to be. It depends on the day. I'm a work in progress and I suppose I always will be. but yeah, I mean, I've found I've I've ⁓ told other people I've had like Eccartoli moments, or but you could just say David Haskell moments, you know, where I just felt really, really zen and really, really like I'm really at peace today. I'm really at peace this hour or this minute. I've I've had that and I didn't have any of that for fifty years. Like zero. So yeah, I don't recommend waiting fifty years. Give yourself a break and and and ⁓ look into getting some help now. Yeah.
speaker-1: You know, fifty years or not, though I I'm happy for you and that you found that. And I think now though, let's look at let's look at the narratives that saturate the healing world. So we're gonna shift to another game here called Flip the Script. I have five commonly accepted self-help cliches. And David, you can either accept accept these as the truth or flip it into a better reality of that. Okay. Okay. So the first one is Everything happens for a reason.
speaker-0: ⁓ I accept that. ⁓ c can I elaborate or are we just are we gonna g
speaker-1: Yeah, of course. Yeah, this this game is an elaboration game, so we can go
speaker-0: Okay. So ⁓ so that's I this is how I made peace with God actually, because I really struggled with that. Not just, you know, why did bad things happen to me when I was little, but like you look at other, you know, people who have had really awful, awful just, you know, through the ringer, you know, kids in a war zone, these things, you know, obviously, you know, I I didn't have the easiest ride, but some people had it way worse. Some people don't, you know, but the thing is like how could that be? And ⁓ The first thing I concluded was I can only speak for myself. I I have no idea about your journey or anybody else's. And if you tell me it's been too much, it's unfair and and I'm not okay, then that's your right to say that. I I had a friend who died of cancer in her forties and she said she was she was not happy. She was not she was no I don't want to say resentful, but she was questioning and saying, Where's my, you know, where's my happy ending? 'Cause I'm gonna die soon. And what could I say to that? I I'm not gonna sit there and say, hey, well, you're wrong, you should be grateful, whatever. But I can only speak for myself. And for myself, yeah, these things that I we talked about today that were incredibly painful and incredibly damaging, led me to a place of peace. And so for me, and I also kind of feel like the spiritual there's some kind of a spiritual agreement. I I I have a sense that like I agreed to this, like as as rough as it is, it's like I wanna I wanna learn something here. I wanna get somewhere. Maybe I wanna, you know, help some other people to get there too. And so that's what I went through. And again, I can only speak for myself. I would never say presume to say that to somebody else who's been through trauma. But yeah, yeah, everything happens for a reason. It's yeah, I I go with that. Yeah.
speaker-1: Next one here is you have to love yourself before you can expect anyone else to love you.
speaker-0: ⁓ so true. So true. Although some kind hearted souls can can love you as you're I I I mean, I was loved. ⁓ I was even liked even when I disliked and didn't didn't l love myself, but it wasn't easy. And you know, if you want to start forming something meaningful, yeah, I I had to start to like love, yes, but also like myself. That's the thing. Like I I thought I was dislikable and I disliked myself. Like who wants to hang out with somebody you don't like? Right. So if I couldn't even hang out with myself, who wants to hang out with somebody who doesn't want to hang out with the group? Does that make sense?
speaker-1: Yeah. Yeah, it does. The next one here is the ultimate goal of healing is to reach a state where the past no longer hurts. Mm. ⁓
speaker-0: Mm. I don't know about that. ⁓ I my past hurts a lot less than it used to. the pain is profound and I'm really quite not I'm not quite sure about that one. I'm not I'll let you know in a few more years, maybe.
speaker-1: What would you flip it to then?
speaker-0: ⁓ it hurts because it meant something.
speaker-1: Yeah, and I thought yeah, think about that one too. And for me, I I would go somewhere around like the the ultimate goal of healing is to reach a state where the past no longer consumes you or overwhelms you. Right. And that you can still function today. Right. Yeah. But I like where you're going with it too. Right. ⁓ and and to acknowledge it, I think I think yeah, I would agree. It needs it needs to be flipped.
speaker-0: If you lose a loved one, a really special person, you know, it's never I think it's never gonna stop hurting. It's always and then you think about that person and there's always gonna be that, ⁓ but it can be kind of a beautiful pain, if that makes sense. Is it or that you know, you think about the memories of them. And Yeah, yeah. It's ⁓ these things matter and that's you know, that's exactly it. They matter and that's why they you know, I'm feeling that in my body even even as as I say that. So yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah. I totally agree with what you just said there. Yeah. That makes that makes sense as well. Okay. One more here. True boundaries should never make the other person feel abound abandoned.
speaker-0: Totally true. Yeah. In fact, I think a lot of people misunderstand what a boundary is. A boundary is not, you know, hey Tyler, I want to set a boundary. You need to do this and that. It's not like it's not about that. It's a it's a personal thing. It's usually quiet. I mean, sometimes you have to make a statement of like, you know, I can't take calls this week or something like that. If somebody's like, you know, if you need to to stop somebody from kind of invading your space, sometimes you have to make a request or a requirement. But it's a it's a personal thing. It's for my own it's for my own ⁓ mental health and and it's nothing to do with the other person. It's not a judgment. ⁓ and in fact I I often say this is this these are my limitations that I'm you know, I wish that I could, you know, expand my limitations, but at the moment I can't. And so that and this is what I say to myself and also and I don't generally state that stuff. And certainly when somebody says, you know, ⁓ like somebody ⁓ in a really hurtful way. ⁓ this this was goes to some of my most profound ⁓ inner child moments sent me a message and said, you know, you you crossed a boundary, but you knew that. And then like proceeded to con you know, blame and shame me for everything that had gone wrong in the falling out. So it's like, okay. That's not boundaries. To me, that's ⁓ that's ⁓ manipulation and abuse.
speaker-1: Yeah. And at a at a school level, we talk a lot about like locus of control and and what you have actions in control of and that you cannot control the actions of other people. And I think what you're seeing in moments where you say, No, I don't want to do that because it's a personal choice for me, and then people get mad at you for it. ⁓ well I I think you see peer pressure happening in in a live action right there in that moment and you see ⁓ sure the society that's just meant to go to go quick with it. I wanna talk about a little bit about The transition out of that and how to deal with focusing on yourself, implementing those changes. And so we'll jump into our third elemental segment here of Ripples of Change. David, you shared a a story about a recent pivot in the intake form. And then in our earlier game you shared them just a month ago, you had a pivot too. the one that you shared though was that you had an entire journey planned to Southeast Asia. But then literally days before your flight, ⁓ you know, you suffered a sudden unexplained concussion. One day before, ⁓ from a fall in the middle of the night. And because of that, you changed your destination to Japan. And what I want to know is tell me more about this story.
speaker-0: ⁓ yeah, it's you could literally say that the universe hit me over the head. ⁓ I didn't change the destination. I was already in Japan. So the thing is, Japan is home for me. Japan is, ⁓ yeah, I've lived in Japan since two thousand and one. And so I had been ⁓ and I got divorced ⁓ in late twenty twenty four. So this was ⁓ and this goes to the the second book in a child unleash starts with the divorce and it it Finished itself last month when I had a nice healing ⁓ afternoon with my ex wife. So, you know, I mean these things have a tendency to to sort of like wrap themselves up in a bow for me for whatever reason and I'm lucky. But anyway, ⁓ I was planning to continue the ⁓ nomadic lifestyle. I had been traveling all last year. I went to Vietnam, I went to Indonesia, I went to Thailand a number of times, and I was having a great time of it, but I was not very grounded and not very stabilized. I was riding around on mopeds and getting chased by wild dogs. And meanwhile I was getting a lot of the business done. I was getting a lot of writing done. ⁓ and I was focused on that sort of thing. ⁓ but I wasn't grounded. ⁓ my health, my physical health was not as I couldn't get the food that I was accustomed to eating. I couldn't do the ⁓ exercise that I was accustomed to. So it wasn't great for me. And I was planning to do it maybe for another year and I came back to Japan ⁓ for 90 days in March. This is getting to be a long story, but I'm almost done. came back in March, April, May. I was gonna leave for the Philippines, travel some more, and then come back to Japan later. And I had a plane ticket and all that stuff. And and but the thing is the inner this is the thing. My inner child days before the trip was like, please can't we just stay in Japan? I'm comfortable here. My daughter's Down the road, my friends are here. ⁓ can't we just stay? And and I basically told the inner child, yeah, sure, if you really want to stay, we can stay. But I was lying. I was placating. I was like, you know, I was like, no, no, no, I'm not really gonna do that. I have an airplane ticket. I can't change the plan. That's not possible. You know, if I change the plan, then I'll have to re-register as a resident and I'll have to get the insurance card, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. And then I don't know, I just I don't think the inner child did it on purpose, but I just got this like really terrible nausea, probably stress, flying the next day, hadn't even packed, really didn't want to leave. kind of felt I had to. And just I felt nauseous and then I got vertigo and I fell and I hit my head on the hardwood floor. And I got a concussion ambulance ride, hospital, and it was like my ⁓ apartment mate went with me. He's right in the other room today, and ⁓ All night long he's with me in the ambulance and at the hospital. And I look at him and I said, You know, if I decide to stay, I can stay here, right? He's like, Yeah, sure. I was like, you know what? I'm not leaving. And then as if to like reinforce that I made the right decision, I got the money back for the flight. I got this is amazing. You don't usually that doesn't normally happen. I got the money flight. Yeah. I got the money back for the with a little bit of argument, I got the money back for the hotel that I had booked for like eight days.
speaker-1: That never happened.
speaker-0: I literally lost nothing from the change. So yeah.
speaker-1: And and like you said, your inner child physically pulling the emergency brake. Maybe because Southeast Asia just wasn't where your soul needed to land.
speaker-0: I yeah, I get that sense. I'm very happy to be here now. And and i actually since that time I've just started doing tons of conversations like this one.
speaker-1: You the great thing about the water element is but also water has the application, ⁓ you know, how these deep ethereal concepts ripple down into practical everyday existence. For the person listening right now, I wanna give you some rapid fire advice, but we're gonna have David do it. So, David, I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you to give me a couple things for people listening, I myself, as just advice that you might have in general. So the first one is I just want like, what are some subtle signs a person can look for today to know that their inner child is currently feeling unsafe?
speaker-0: ⁓ physical symptoms. I I notice ⁓ again, as I said, it this the thing with me started with ⁓ nausea and my stomach hurt. ⁓ I get the sense when I'm in a situation that's not right for me, I'll get a stomach ache or you know, I'll get some other ⁓ symptoms that I tend to ignore way too much. And I'm trying to learn not to do that because when my the body really does know a lot. And ⁓ I had one in in instance years ago where I was sort of in the presence of somebody I was really a ⁓ maybe even a predator type person. And I got, you know, violently ill. And at the time I was just like, ⁓ man, I just get violently ill. And when I look back at it, I was like, you know what, my my subconscious was just like get away from this person. Hmm. Yeah.
speaker-1: Okay, what about some personal checks you use to ensure a boundary is born out of self-love rather than fear?
speaker-0: ⁓ it's such a good question. I would say now I'm I'm not any I'm not a member of any particular religion, but I am a spiritual guy. I do believe in some kind of a God figure. I'm not of any particular ⁓ yeah, I don't have any idea what God is, but I believe in him or him or her. And so the thing is, like I would say in that case, for me, ⁓ I pray and try, you know, if I'm uncertain about something or if I think that I've acted out of an egoic ⁓ thing that might not be helpful. It's always you can always ⁓ fix it, I think. death is the only real fine line, you know, the bottom line where like if as long as we're all still alive, you know, there's always an opportunity to maybe go back and fix it. So like in that case I would I would be prayerful and reflective and try to come up with the right thing. So that was a bit of a long bit of advice, but
speaker-1: You know, it what you just said though makes me think of some recent conversations and even podcasts I've lifted listened to ⁓ around like Navy SEAL training and like CIA training and the whole idea that ⁓ the worst decision is no decision. And that's actually ⁓ a quote that Krieg Avender brought onto the show when he came on and you know, the idea of you can always go back and fix something as long as you just do something first. And so that that simple piece sticks with me. And so thank you for sharing that. Okay. Last one here I'll get your advice on is a journal prompt from your practice that can help a listener unlock a memory they've spent years burrying.
speaker-0: Yeah, journal prompt. ⁓ the the inner child technique that I use, it's very simple. And this is also in the book. But I mean it's basically if you're feeling triggered. ⁓ and so if you want to you can write it, but if you're journaling, this is if you feel something that's bothering you that you're that seems oversized, you're upset about something, ⁓ start to ⁓ write it out or verbalize it in the third person rather than like, you know, I'm so angry, I'm you know, I can't believe that person did that. It's like, you know, he's so angry, he can't believe that. that that was done to him. He, you know, and then everything else, emotional, he feels fearful. He feels angry. ⁓ his stomach hurts and blah, blah, blah. And then flip it to second person. Who are you? And then get quiet. And often there'll be some connection to some past, you know, core memory or issue that that goes more to the to the deeper reason why you're triggered because, you know, Tyler and Joey went to dinner and didn't invite me. You know. And it's like, nobody ever invites me to dinner, everybody hates me, you know, that kind of thing. ⁓ that's an inner child. So, you know, you can you can journal in that direction. Yeah.
speaker-1: Yeah. Well, thank you very much for sharing. We start to get into some actions we can actually take to address these things. And so I think it's a good way to segue to our final ⁓ elemental segment. So we'll jump into Spark or Burn. Hey, if you're enjoying today's episode, make sure you leave a rating and review on Apple and Spotify. It helps the show reach more people. Let's get back to it. David, when I asked you what bold decision or risk you've taken that you'd be willing to explore today, you said talking with me. And honestly, I never even thought about that before. Sitting down with a stranger, opening the rawest parts of your history, putting it on a microphone. It's a profound risk, and it means risking being misunderstood, miscategorized, or exposed. Why did showing up for this unscripted conversation? Feel like a spark or burn moment for you today.
speaker-0: well they it always is. I mean, any any connection is in a way. Like the thing is you have to understand that I lived as a veritable hermit for about eleven years. Like the the last eleven years of my addictive life, I didn't even open the shades. I didn't go outside. I had run out of friends long before that. And but that was safe, you know, 'cause like I mean, it was predictable. I I knew that I could ⁓ you know be alone by myself and I might be miserable, but there won't be anything unpredictable unpredictable about that. So whenever we make a connection, it's there's a danger. And there's, you know, the whole ⁓ I could be misin misinterpreted, I could be misunderstood. ⁓ somebody might, you know, come in the comments and say, this guy's completely full of crap. You know, he's the dumbest idiot I ever heard of. And who cares about inner child anyway? And boy, his story sounds stupid. Why'd you book him? You know, and say so, and or you, you know, you could start going there and in two minutes and be like, man, I wish I hadn't booked you. You know, I mean, obviously that's extreme, right? I mean, that's extreme. But I mean, hey, you know, this is it's vulnerable to talk about ourselves and it's vulnerable to talk about emotions and it's vulnerable to talk about our experiences. And that's why, you know, people are often ⁓ yeah, would rather talk about surface stuff, but surface stuff kind of makes me uncomfortable when I get, you know, talking about the weather and sports never really appealed to me very much. But if you want to tell me about, you know, a moment that you had and something I could relate to, then, you know, I could talk for hours about that. So yeah, you know, that's ⁓ yeah. And also the other thing is I'm a writer. You know, I'm not a podcaster, I'm not an influencer, I'm not a guru, I'm not any of those things. And ⁓ the common wisdom is, you know, you need to get out there, you need to get your voice up there, you need to be seen and heard and blah blah blah. True enough, but I was trying to find a way to do that that vibed with my integrity because I didn't want to like start a YouTube channel or be, you know, whatever, did these are your, you know, 10 tips for today or whatever. And I don't even really feel like I have that. I mean, if you want that, I wrote a book. That's that's the whole part. That's the whole point. Like it the it everything that I had of value to me, I put into there and I'm happy to talk about it. But the thing is, I do think it's necessary. And so to me, What's the solution? Conversation, connection. Go on podcasts and I'll do it that way. But again, it's I'm not gonna do it in a scripted way because to me that's not as valuable. Because like if, you know, script my book was scripted. Like I I edited the book to s you know, it's in a sense like that's that's the the formal, this is what I want you to to know about what I have to say. This part is more like, Well, how'd you get there? You know, was what are you know, this is who are you and and Why would I wanna read what you have to to write? So, you know, if it was scripted then we wouldn't get to the to the real ⁓ meat of that stuff, I think. So yeah.
speaker-1: And I think I think when you write, it it it's a form of storytelling, and this is a whole nother form of storytelling, and both are important to bring together. And so, you know, I'm glad you're here. I do hate to break it to you, but there are gonna be people in the world that listen to this and say, What the hell did I just listen to? I know. You know what? I've come to terms with it after my first couple episodes. You know, you hear from from time to time, why did you do this? Where are you going this way? You should do this, you should do that. And it took a little while for me to just think about why do I actually care? Right. Why am I doing it? And why why would you choose to let that bother you? Again, it's locus of control and I have control over what I'm choosing to do. I do this because it's fun. I'm trying to make an impact. I try to connect with people across the world to connect and hear their story. So I not only I can learn, but if somebody listening can take away something from it too, that's a win for me. And when I get those messages, it reminds me why I do what I do. And so thank you, thank you for sharing that. I I really appreciate you coming on the show and and being brave enough to hit join room at the end of it. You know, to test the core of that conviction, we're gonna put your philosophy through the ultimate furnace. This is a custom elimination tournament game called Final Answer for You. I'm just gonna give you two concepts and you can only pick one of them without rationalizing this one. The winner advances to face another word through 10 rapid fire rounds. Until the ultimate word remains, okay?
speaker-0: Okay.
speaker-1: So the first two words I want you to pick between is surrender or control.
speaker-0: Surrender.
speaker-1: Surrender or safety.
speaker-0: Surrender.
speaker-1: Surrender or grief?
speaker-0: Surrender.
speaker-1: Surrender or expression.
speaker-0: Surrender.
speaker-1: Surrender or boundaries?
speaker-0: Boundaries.
speaker-1: Boundaries or stillness?
speaker-0: Tell next.
speaker-1: Stillness or chaos?
speaker-0: Dellness.
speaker-1: Stillness or the child. The child or connection.
speaker-0: The child.
speaker-1: And the child or the truth.
speaker-0: Child.
speaker-1: And we flipped a few times, but we ended on child.
speaker-0: Right. I I wanna I wanna qualify that one though. I just wanna qualify that ⁓ to me the truth is in the child. That's why I really hesitated on that one. And and I could have probably just gone with surrender ten times. But the thing about that is ⁓ yeah, there it at a certain point, yeah, it's tough. These are tough ones. They they're like really borderline. But when I think surrender, I generally think spiritual surrender and I do I do think that that, you know, there's a there's a universe out there leading me somewhere. So like, you know.
speaker-1: Let's qualify it.
speaker-0: Not picking surrender is kinda like saying, I'm just gonna like take take the reins and you know. So wow. Yeah, that was great. I love it.
speaker-1: Why did why did you shift from surrender to boundaries?
speaker-0: ⁓ aga so again, and so that sort of shifted from the spiritual zone because for me boundaries is a spiritual thing. So yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't I wouldn't compromise my my boundaries for that sort of thing. Yeah.
speaker-1: And then from boundaries to stillness.
speaker-0: ⁓ God. Yeah, because ⁓ with I've heard people say this and it it was unthinkable to me for a long time. But ⁓ I would rather be alone than with the wrong people. And that in ⁓ not necessarily I could enjoy party and whatnot. But the thing is, if yeah, if I'm just in a toxic situation and I'm just trying to bang my head against a wall to fix a situation that's not ⁓ fixing itself, and I'd I would have rather I would have kept doing that. But now I'd rather go, you know, be still and be alone for a while. And I the travel that I was talking about, it was quite liberating too, because I did spend a lot of time in in seclusion and I'm really okay with that. So yeah. So yeah, I would pick the stillness. Yeah.
speaker-1: You know, one of the questions that I ask as we're wrapping up to my my guests is normally what's the most important thing we haven't talked about? But I feel like the answer I would get from you is, well, I don't I don't know. It depends. It where did we want to go with it? Right. And so I think there's lots of times where what's emergent can become important. So what I actually want to ask you, I haven't asked anybody this before. Well, in the preamble I have, but what do you think we're solving in this conversation? What are we addressing?
speaker-0: ⁓ we're addressing Healing, I think. ⁓ how it you know, we're addressing
speaker-1: I don't know that word too, by the way. That was in my mind.
speaker-0: Yeah, absolutely. And I mean that's a lot of what I'm again, you know, and I have different facets of what I do. E but even the you know, you said something about the the fiction, nonfiction. I don't remember exactly what you said, but it it made me think about that all the writing is fiction and all the writing is nonfiction. Like when I tell my story, it's my side of the story, you know. My dad read the book and he, you know, didn't really love the way that he was portrayed in the book. ⁓ but this was my truth. And ⁓ even with the With the sci-fi that I write. I mean, that's like me trying to, you know, make sense of the world we're in. And that's kind of my truth too. So you know, that's again, and so that's why I think the conversation can morph. And and so today feels a lot like healing because like the directions we've been going in is like going back to like, how can you be well? How can you be well? How can you be well? And I think the answers are out there.
speaker-1: And yeah, it's funny that you bring that up because when I first started this, you know, my my parents first came to me and said, that is not what happened or how we remember it either. And I'm sitting here, that's my truth. It's how I remember it though. And maybe I was completely wrong and well, whatever. At least it makes for a good story at this point. You know, right. Before I let you go, David, we have a tradition on the show where my previous guest always leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they are, they're completely blind that David was coming on the show. And the question left for you was if you have no ⁓ time resources issues of any kind, no money issues, nothing, if you could wave a magic wand and do anything in the world, what would it be?
speaker-0: I've thought about this actually. and the answer is I would do the things that I'm doing, but on a bigger scale. So I mean, I would I would probably be I would have a publishing company for one thing. ⁓ I would be working with other writers who, you know, who might want to be writing in similar lines. ⁓ yeah, I what I'm doing, it feels like what I want to be doing for for the rest of my life. ⁓ but on a bigger scale. Right now I kind of feel like I have small timers disease a little bit. And that, you know, that I'm really struggling to like, you know, whatever. You know, I don't I don't have the budget to edit you know, this book the second time and ⁓ you know, that kind of thing. Time and money, yeah. yeah. Does that answer? I hope hopefully that answers the I wonder if I'll have time to think about the question I leave for the next person. That's what I'm wondering. ⁓
speaker-1: Well, my very my very next question is going to be what is a question you want to leave for the next guest? But that being said, we can leave it as a mystery right now and you can message at me or what we can do is you can answer one right now and then if you want to change it, just tell me later.
speaker-0: What did you get out of this episode?
speaker-1: Ooh. Hopefully hopefully they listened to it. Or unless they're unless they take that of the episode that they just recorded.
speaker-0: No, I mean what did they get out of their episode is what I meant.
speaker-1: ⁓ I like that. Yeah. I like that a lot. I'll make sure that that gets locked in for them. You know, we refuse to map out a destination and we explicitly decided not to pre-package a a takeaway or a problem to solve. And we chose to let connection happen in the rawest, genuine form. And you know, as I sit here now and I look at the ripples of everything that we just unearned, I just want to leave our listeners with one final question to carry into their own silence. What if the sudden disruptions in your life? Missed flights, the unexpected falls, and the terrifying boundaries you're afraid to draw are not obstacles pulling you away from your path, but your inner self violently shaking you awake to bring you back home. David, thank you for stepping onto the microphone with zero armor. Thank you for showing us what it looks like to be both the student and the teacher. It's been my pleasure to host you. Thanks again. Thanks for sticking around to the end of the show.
speaker-0: Thank you. Been great, Tyler. Thank you.
speaker-1: If you have feedback, a suggestion, or just want to start a conversation, buyer off an email, Tyler at Elementaleducator.com. I actually read them. And if this episode sparks something, leave a review on Apple or Spotify. It helps more leaders find the show. And don't forget to subscribe on YouTube where I put out additional content. I'll see you next time. Same time, same place. ⁓