Episode #67 Featuring Aaron Siri !! Author of the book "Vaccines Amen"

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A short disclaimer for everyone on this episode. This is
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the longest episode that the Dylan Gemelli podcast has ever recorded.
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It is a topic of discussion that is very controversial.
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And I was approached by the author of the book
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Vaccines Amen, Aaron Siri, with a troubling amount of information
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that I did want to cover here. I tried to
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stay extremely impartial and non-emotional throughout this interview. However, some
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of the things that were uncovered are quite troubling and
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need to be brought to everyone's attention. All of the
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information was vetted before this interview and is all cited
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within his book. So there may be some disagreement upon this,
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but all of this information that will be provided has
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been cited within his book. And I would urge you
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all to go check out Vaccines Amen, the book by
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Aaron Seri, and you can cite and find all of
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the relative information in regard to the facts given within
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this podcast.
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All right, everybody, welcome back to the Dylan Gemelli Podcast.
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As you can see, I have a little bit different
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setting here, and it is phenomenal, I must say. But
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I have a topic of discussion and a guest today
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that falls in line with what I do, because I
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like to tell everybody that I'm an arbiter of truth.
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I don't pick sides. I don't play games.
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I don't conspiratorially type of behavior.
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I don't do any of that. I just give you
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what I see, what I find and what I know.
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And what I've found is that my guest today has
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done some of the most honorable and I'll go out
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on a limb here, say some of the most disturbing
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yet fascinating work I've ever seen because of what he's
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brought to light. And I have grown a massive interest
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and a deep appreciation for him and what he's done.
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And so, while this is not a topic that.
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I generally broach, I have a duty with my platform
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and what I've done and what I've been able to
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do by putting out the truth. And when my guest
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approached me, I was a little hesitant at first to take.
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On this topic.
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But I'll tell you what, after talking with him and
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reading his book, Cover to Cover, I have to tell
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you something. I have a duty here, and so I'm
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spotlighting him today. I'm going to give him a brief introduction.
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He's the managing partner of the Siri and Glimstad LLP,
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which is a national firm of over 100 professionals focused
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on civil rights, class actions, and complex litigation.
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And he has.
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Led high-profile cases challenging medical mandates and restored exemptions. And
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he has a new book out. that we're gonna discuss
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today that is going to blow the roof off everything
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that's put out there. And I'm just gonna give him
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the opportunity to go from start to finish and give
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nothing but facts. No emotion, no whatever our belief system is,
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straight down the middle facts. His book right here, Vaccines, Amen.
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This is a life-changing book on a variety of levels,
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not just for the information on here, but the lives
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that it can save.
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And that's what I'm here to do with my guest today.
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So my friends, Aaron Seary. Good to see you. Thanks
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for having me out here, man. I appreciate it. I
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really do. Oh, it's a pleasure.
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So my friend, like I said, when you contacted me,
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I was a little hesitant because these are touchy topics.
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And while I maybe have a certain set of beliefs
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on things too, I'm one of those people. I'm very open.
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I like to hear all sides of things. So I
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look at it from all perspectives. But what you've done
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and the amount of time and effort you've put into this,
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I've got to tell you, brother, I hold you in
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an extremely high regard for the work that you've done,
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for your ability to just go all out. So I
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ask you first and foremost, before we get into the book, anything,
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what's your driving force to do this? Because it is
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one of those things that can get you a lot
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of hate and it can get a lot of people
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coming after you.
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What is it for you that makes you want to
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even touch this? Freedom. Everybody should have the individual and
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civil right to say no without any coercion to a
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medical product. And here's the thing about that. Mandating a
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medical product, it doesn't hurt those who want to get it.
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They're going to get it anyway. So who does it hurt?
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It hurts the type of people that our firm deals
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with every day. It hurts families whose child may have
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been seriously injured or even died from one of these products.
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They then make the choice to not receive another one.
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And what happens to them? Do they get empathy? Do
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they get sympathy?
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No.
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They try to kick their kids out of school. Right.
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They get gaslit at doctor's offices. They get called selfish
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and any other horrible and all kinds of other horrible names.
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Think about the way they talk about people who don't vaccinate,
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especially five, six years ago, pre-COVID, right? Think about the
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way those folks are treated. Imagine I told you there's
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a group of people that, you know, and pick a
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racial group, pick an ethnic group, pick a religious group,
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and I say to you, you know what we should
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do to that group of people, Dylan? Let's throw them
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out of school. Kick them out of their jobs. They're selfish.
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They're bad people. They're anti-science. They're crazy. They're radical. They
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and their children don't deserve the same rights as everybody
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else for making what? A medical decision that they, that
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the public or some don't agree with. Think about that.
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And then think about, think about how, how horrible that
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is to be that family where your child was just
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seriously injured by this product. You should be have, you
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should have the opposite. from society. You should have empathy.
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You should have understanding. You should have support. It's not
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what happens to these folks. And so, you know, it's
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those families and it's those rights that drive me in
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this space. I'm with you a hundred percent.
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I'm, I struggle so much with this whole concept of
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this force of, being put on somebody and taking away rights,
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canceling people, all of these things that I saw go
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on that, you know, you were in a position like
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for me personally with what I do. I mean, you
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got to be careful with what you say at all
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times because then they come in droves to attack you.
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And it's like this cult of people that have this
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strange motive because I think I always reference this to
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like Looney Tunes, you know, with Bugs Bunny when he
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turned on the TV and it it hypnotizes them.
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He turns into this evil bunny, you know what I mean?
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And then goes after everybody.
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And I feel like that media and marketing and the
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way that they push these things out, they're so good
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at brainwashing people into thinking one thing without looking at
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each opposite end.
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Of the spectrum.
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And it's, it's one of the most troubling things I've
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ever seen. I ask you this, when do you feel
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like this started happening? This coercion almost. And I, and
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I hate to even use that word, but it's, it's
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all that's on the surface of everything that you wrote,
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everything that we all see.
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So when do you feel like this?
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I think it's probably gone on since the beginning of time,
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but when do you think it became so prevalent?
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Well, um, but truly prevalent. The was around, I'd say
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around 2015. And that's when California, excuse me, 2000 and, um, yeah, 2015, uh,
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And that's when California eliminated the exemption to be able
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to send your child to school without a required vaccine.
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Up until that point, it was basically a check-the-box exemption.
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I know everybody says, well, there have been mandates for
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attending school for forever. But the truth is, is that
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if you got a mandate, but there's a check-the-box exemption,
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it's not really a mandate. It's like a mandate, no mandate, right?
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When California did that and eliminated the exemptions, Left a
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narrow medical exemption, which is the state reviews and it's
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impossible to obtain based on how they amended it. That
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and impacting 40 million people, tens of thousands of people,
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that's California. Basically, we're like refugees. And who are these folks?
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These are the families I just told you about, right?
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These are the families. Medical exemptions and vaccination are not
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based on medicine. Nothing to do with medicine. a government
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policy-driven approach to granting an exemption. The CDC creates something
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called a table of countermeasures and precautions, and the states
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follow it. And that's not science-driven. That's based on what
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the CDC wants to put on the table. It doesn't
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even include almost a fraction of the known things that
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can cause injury from vaccines validated by the Institute of
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Medicine and others, okay? And so, you know, families that
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want to protect their children or families that have one
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or more religious beliefs contrary to the practice of vaccination,
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like some folks oppose abortion.
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Yeah.
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And every single vial of an MMR vaccine or a
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chickenpox vaccine, there are literally billions of pieces of DNA
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from the cultured cell line of an aborted fetus.
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Really?
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Billions of pieces. That is, I mean, it's all in
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my book. That may sound unbelievable to anybody watching. Yeah.
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But that's, that's what the evidence reflects. There's no, there's
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not really a contested point. It's in fact, it is, uh,
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no contest that there's DNA and cellular debris from the aborted, uh,
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cell on aborted fetus in those vaccines. And the reason
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they're in there is because you got to grow a
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virus in cells, right? So what do they grow it on?
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They grow on the cells from an aborted fetus. So
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Some people have moral objections to that. They don't want
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to participate. They don't want to inject billions of pieces
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from an aborted fetus cell line into their children. But
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yet those folks were also kicked out. So I think
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2015 really was an inflection of white. Then New York
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State did it, and then Connecticut and Maine also got
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rid of their exemptions. Up until that point, there were
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only two states in the country, Mississippi and West Virginia,
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that didn't have an exemption. But there are smaller states,
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not very populated, And you could just live across the
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border or send your kids across the border, which often happened.
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And so, you know, I'd say that was an inflection point.
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But really, if I was going to go to what
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led up to that, another big inflection point was 1986
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and the passage of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act.
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We're going to get into that. Yeah. I'm going to
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put you on the stand real quick. Sure. We're going
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to do a role reversal. Okay. So.
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I just, just to give a little bit of background
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for anybody that's questioning you.
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Okay.
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Because one of the things that I have to battle,
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which I really don't anymore, because once people listen and
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see what I do and how I talk is, well,
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you don't got 35 letters after your name. So you,
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you can't know what you're talking about. And then I
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explained what's actually going on in medical school. And I say, well,
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we can sit down and go back and forth.
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I'm down. If you want to compare and see where
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we go.
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And so, you know, What I look for in every
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person that I interview that's going one way or another.
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Is what's the barriers that they have to overcome? Let's
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talk about it.
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So give them a chance to explain without somebody going
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crazy on you and yelling at you without giving the
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opportunity to talk.
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Sure.
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Go ahead and set and kind of get into what
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makes you somebody that people can listen to.
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Like what is it.
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That you've done that you've experienced that qualifies you to
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discuss the topics and give the information that you've given. So,
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cause you know, people are going to ask that and
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they're going to throw that at you.
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I know the answer to that, but I want you
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to explain it to everybody else.
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Sure.
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Well, I would say my number one qualification is that
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I think about vaccines. I don't believe in them. I
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read and I think, right. Um, and I'm, I have
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no feelings about the products. They're just products. But, um,
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if somebody wants, you know, experience and so forth, I mean, I, um,
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I'll say this, you know, when I was at Berkeley
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for law school, I never thought I'd be doing anything
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with vaccines. All right. And then when I clerked for
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the chief judge of the Supreme court of Israel for
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you after law school, I didn't think I'd be doing
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the vaccine. And then when I worked at the, you know,
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one of the, the, the five biggest, third, three biggest
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law firms, most prestigious firms in America for almost six
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years representing, you know, um, massive companies and bet the
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company litigation. Um, I didn't think I'd be doing any vaccines. Yeah.
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Even when I left to start my own firm well
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over a decade ago, I didn't think I'd be doing that.
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You know, I left and I was still doing commercial litigation,
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you know, representing public traded companies, even a few hundred
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million dollars in dispute where I used to work before
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I moved from, it was billions of dollars in dispute. And,
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you know, there was an inflection point and the inflection
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point was 2015, what we just talked about, where they
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started excluding companies they excluded those families in California. And
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then they started doing that in New York. And at
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that point I had, you know, I had already learned
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some about vaccines, not much. I didn't know anything about
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the science at that point. Um, uh, but you know,
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it struck me as just intuitively there was, there was
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something wrong about it. And so I started bringing some
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lawsuits in this area. Um, and over time, this became
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my main focus of practice, uh, Over the last decade,
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I have deposed some of the world's leading vaccinologists, including
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the world's leading vaccinologists. I've deposed immunologists, infectious disease doctors, pediatricians.
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I have brought endless lawsuits against state health departments and
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federal and all kinds of federal agencies, CDC, FDA, NIH,
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go down the list. And during that, those last 10
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years of litigating, pretty much anything you can litigate around vaccines.
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If I'm going to have to, you know, depose an
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expert in vaccinology, well, I've got to know, you know,
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everything I can. And so my office isn't filled with
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law books on the shelf. It's all medical textbooks around
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this discipline and the disciplines I just mentioned, you know,
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books on vaccinology, immunology, infectious disease, pediatrics, and more recently,
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some genetics as well. And so, you know, I've had to,
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during that process, when I litigate around vaccines, I don't
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get to go into court and brandish credentials. I don't
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get to go in court and say, I'm an MD, PhD, MPH.
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So what I say, you should just listen to him.
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I don't get to do that. I have to prove
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everything I say about vaccines with evidence, data, not credentials.
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Right.
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Not only that, so I have to carefully look at
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it and present it. And if you go to look
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at most of my core papers, I'm not citing to
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stuff that anybody would say, that's not credible. It's mostly
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CDC data. It's FDA clinical trial reports. It's Institute of
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Medicine reports. It's, you know, it's the stuff that they
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tell you should rely upon, right? They just don't, I
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don't even know if they really look at it. And
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then separately, In those litigations, not only do I have
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to carefully evaluate the evidence and present it properly to
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be able to win my cases, I also have to
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learn the underlying substance. I also get to hold them
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to their proof. If you make a claim, if they
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make a claim that vaccines X, I get in discovery,
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get to subpoena you or give you a doc request
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and say, give me the evidence. Give me the support
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for that claim, right? And then I get to put
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you in a room and depose you for nine hours
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and say, all right, what's the proof? What's the support?
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And then we can go to trial and I can
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put you on the scan and cross-examine you. That kind
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of process, everybody says, oh, well, we've got to have
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this public debate on vaccines, right? I have them all
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the time. I have exactly the debate in those depositions,
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in those court cases. So over that decade of experience,
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I've got to see firsthand and had to critically and
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carefully evaluate the evidence and the data about these products. So,
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you know, over that period of time, there is what
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public health authorities say about vaccines. There's also, by the way,
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what you'll randomly see on the internet about vaccines. There's
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all kinds of stuff said about vaccines. And then there's
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what the data, the evidence actually shows. And so I
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rely on the primary sources. And then that's what I
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lay out in my book.
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Yeah.
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You know what?
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It's always so telling to me when these people that
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have the credentials, but then they sit across from you
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and they got to really be put on the spot
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with no screens around them to answer for them. Nobody
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influencing what they can say. They're on the spot. They're
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directly in front of your face and have nothing to
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rely on but themselves. And what I find so often
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is that a lot of these people, they don't know
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a fraction of what they come across to know or
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try to dance, a dance around, which I'm sure you
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see it all the time. And I have learned so
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much over time having direct one-on-one conversation. And I try
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to be versatile and well-rounded in what I do. And
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like to what you said, you're already kind of handcuffed
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because you're not the expert. So you have to go
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and spend all your time researching and be ready for
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everything right? And that's what I do with my podcast
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guests that I research everything. So when we get in here,
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I can go back and forth with you and I
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know what I'm talking about. So, you know, you put
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in extra work and I'm telling you with what I
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read and what I've seen over time, these people, they
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hide behind a lot of stuff.
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They really do. And we're going to get into that.
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But I think that when you're in the position that
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you're in, that makes you so credible is you get
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in these one-on-one conversations and you really pull that out
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and you really.
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Get to see, man, they're lying. They're lying.
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Or they're leading, or they're answering, dancing like a politician.
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Well, you can't answer simple.
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Questions and you got to go off on a separate
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tangent because you don't know the answer or B, it's like,
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I can't answer this, you know. And so I'm assuming
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that you probably over time experience that over and over
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and over and we're like, wait a minute, this just
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doesn't add up. This just doesn't make sense. And I'm
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sure that's probably part of the reason why you dug
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so deep and did this.
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I mean, it honestly didn't take that long, you know,
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within a year or two, it became pretty apparent, especially
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after I deposed Dr. Stanley Plotkin, who's the world's leading vaccinologist.
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It really brought that position in particular, just really brought
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it home for me because up until that point, I was,
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you know, looking at all the primary sources, for example,
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You know, you can't sue manufacturers. I know you want
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to get into that at some point, but you can't
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sue vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injury in America because they
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have immunity for the most part. But you can bring
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a claim in a specialized government program. And when you do,
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you have to prove causation, right? Okay, so I need
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to prove the vaccine caused injury. So where do I start?
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I want to start with the clinical trials. That's how
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you can prove causation. They're prospective. So, you know, they say, oh,
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you can prove causation. So I started looking at all
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the clinical trials. for all the vaccines. That is along with,
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you know, a nonprofit that I represent called ICANN, Information
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Action Network. You know, they wanted to look at vaccine
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safety carefully, so we started looking at all the clinical trials. And,
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you know, this was very early on. And I'm like, what?
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You licensed the vaccines for babies on clinical trials with
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days or weeks of safety review after injection? Or even
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only a few months? With no placebo control on Any
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routine injector childhood vaccine, we can get into that. Yeah.
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I know that they fact check that claim a lot,
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but it's categorically true that what I just said. And
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you don't have enough kids in the trial. In contrast,
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most drugs robustly trial before licensure. And I said, how
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can this be? And I thought, for example, when I
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deposed Dr. Plotkin, he would show, he proved me wrong.
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He'd show me, no, you're wrong. You know, Mr. Siri,
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you are wrong. And here's a mountain of evidence. You
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didn't have that. And we even subpoenaed him after that deposition.
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And instead of producing documents to support what he said
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supports their safety, he got a lawyer and moved to
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quash it. Then we said, okay, maybe the FDA has
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stuff we don't know about. So then we'd FOIA, that's
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the Freedom of Information Act, submit FOIA requests to the FDA, say,
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give us the clinical trial reports. Maybe there's something in
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there we didn't know. That's not on your already publicly
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available data. Still, again, they're vacuous. And so, you know,
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at every iteration of trying to find this supposed mountain
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of safety studies and data and trials, they're really, for
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the most part, nowhere to be found. And let me
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tell you, we want that data. We want that evidence. One,
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for the clients we represent where we have to prove causation,
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we need that data.
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Mm-hmm.
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And then separately for lots of the other types of
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lawsuits that we do around vaccines. Any of that. I
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come from the supplement industry.
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I started studying peptides way before anybody heard about them,
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more of an underground.
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Market and things like that.
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When you're in the supplement industry and doing things like that,
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the number one kickback that you get is, well, there's
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not 20 or 30 years of data on this.
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So how do I know this is safe?
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That's the consumer kickback when I'm trying to come up
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with formulas or products or promote.
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You know, back then.
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And that was my number one thing. And I've never
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been a guy that studied vaccines, anything like that at all.
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I've just kind of done what you mentioned in the book,
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which we're going to get into is about.
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You just kind of, it's just kind of the rush.
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That's just what you're told.
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So, you know, when COVID hit, And I started seeing this, well,
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you have to take this, you have to do this.
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And there's literally no data on anything. That's when I
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told my wife, I said, we got a problem here. Like,
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what is this? Because I've been, I've lived in studies,
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but it's more for different supplements, different steroids, different peptides. And,
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you know, going back to the 80s, 70s and having
431
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all this data, but it's still not enough, not enough
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to put in our bodies.
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We need more. We need more. So this stuff happens
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and I'm going, what? And then the force and taking
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things from people and making them feel on top of
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the possible financial strain and stress, the mental stress that
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they were putting on people. I mean, this is ruining
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people in all facets because mentally and physically, both of
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those can be so harmful that can ruin your quality
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of life, which is kind of what I talk about now.
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So not only are they trying to take away people's livelihoods,
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but they're really taking away their life. You want to
443
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hear the irony of COVID-19 vaccine? Please. Well, if you're
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going to take a vaccine based on how robust its
445
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clinical trial was, then amongst all the routine injected childhood vaccines,
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you should take COVID vaccine. Because compared to all the
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other ones, the COVID vaccine has, in my opinion, the
448
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most robust clinical trial. You had a placebo control group,
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which doesn't exist for any other routine-injected trial vaccine. And
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when I say that, by the way, I don't just
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mean the current ones. I mean, even if the current
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routine-injected trial vaccine used another vaccine as a control, excuse me, right,
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instead of a placebo, well, then go look at the
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clinical trial for that vaccine. That was not a placebo
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control group. And you go down the chain, it doesn't exist.
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I lay it all out in chapter 10 of the book. So,
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Going back to COVID vaccine, it had a placebo control
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group that lasted on average two months before they, quote unquote,
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crossed over and they vaccinated all of them. They had
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about 30,000 to 42,000 people in the trial, which, depending
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on the Moderna or Pfizer trial, where many of the
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clinical trials for kids have hundreds only, thousands of kids only.
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Not that 30 or 42 is, by the way, sufficient.
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And they reviewed safety for six months. Now, that's not
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sufficient still, but at least for six months. Better than
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the literal days sometimes or weeks there of your safety
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after injection on a lot of the toddler vaccines. So
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for COVID vaccine, ironically, and some people say, well, it
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was rushed. I mean, look, technology that underlines different vaccines
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takes often years, decades to develop. The COVID-19 vaccine, the
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mRNA technology has been in development for two decades. The
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recombinant DNA technology used for hep B vaccines was in
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also in development for decades for, you know, toxoid vaccines,
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subunit vaccines. There's so many different types of vaccines, okay?
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We're only just one type. Now, you know when the
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technology started for all those vaccines? When they invented the wheel, okay? Really?
477
00:27:03.500 --> 00:27:07.200
The point is that it doesn't matter how long it
478
00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.400
takes to develop it. What matters is how robust was
479
00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:13.720
the trial that assessed its safety and efficacy in human beings.
480
00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:17.400
That's what matters. To me, it doesn't matter how long
481
00:27:17.420 --> 00:27:21.180
it took you to develop technology. And that technology for
482
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:25.539
the mRNA was actually really far along because they were
483
00:27:25.619 --> 00:27:30.670
trying to develop in NIAID, Fauci's Institute at NIH, in
484
00:27:30.710 --> 00:27:36.549
their vaccine group, a mRNA vaccine for SARS-CoV-1. So that
485
00:27:36.589 --> 00:27:39.390
was actually... It was kind of all there, you know?
486
00:27:39.750 --> 00:27:46.069
So when they say rushed, I mean, you know... How
487
00:27:46.130 --> 00:27:48.809
robust was the clinical trial? And that was Rusty. Now,
488
00:27:49.450 --> 00:27:51.299
the other part where people will say a lot of times,
489
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:55.079
they'll say, well, it wasn't around long enough, right? Okay, well,
490
00:27:55.099 --> 00:27:56.900
that's a fair point. It had only been around for
491
00:27:56.940 --> 00:28:00.579
so long. But once it's released on the market, the
492
00:28:00.660 --> 00:28:04.660
only reason it being around a long time matters is
493
00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:08.700
if you actually are properly assessing safety afterwards. If you're not,
494
00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:10.049
who cares if it's in the market 10 years, 20,
495
00:28:10.029 --> 00:28:16.779
30 years, right? And so... True, mRNA vaccines weren't around
496
00:28:17.019 --> 00:28:22.740
as long, but their post-licensure safety, if you take all
497
00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:27.710
the post-licensure safety for mRNA vaccines, I'm going to speculate
498
00:28:27.750 --> 00:28:33.269
that it's probably more pages than all the vaccine safety
499
00:28:33.289 --> 00:28:36.769
studies published for all the childhood vaccines combined. I mean,
500
00:28:37.230 --> 00:28:40.650
for most of them, it's pretty vacuous. The COVID vaccine
501
00:28:40.690 --> 00:28:44.349
was actually, after licensure, There was a lot of studies,
502
00:28:44.930 --> 00:28:48.700
incredible amounts. I've never seen that for any other vaccine. So,
503
00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.980
you know, that is the contrast between those two. And
504
00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:58.880
on the coercion point, you know, I mean, when do
505
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.440
governments need to coerce you? They don't need to coerce
506
00:29:01.460 --> 00:29:05.099
you to do things that aren't problematic, right? The heavy
507
00:29:05.140 --> 00:29:08.069
hand of government is needed only when they can't persuade
508
00:29:08.130 --> 00:29:11.029
other merits. That's when they need to do it, right?
509
00:29:12.220 --> 00:29:14.759
And it starts off bit by bit, right? This country
510
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:17.440
is founded on individual civil rights. There's a rebellion against
511
00:29:17.920 --> 00:29:21.039
the idea of centralized governments, a king, a dictator, a
512
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.940
central authority. And we decided that we have inalienable rights.
513
00:29:26.509 --> 00:29:28.670
And we're going to respect those individual rights, whether freedom
514
00:29:28.690 --> 00:29:33.329
of speech, religion, assembly. And all those freedoms come with dangers,
515
00:29:33.349 --> 00:29:35.789
letting people say what they want, assemble with who they want,
516
00:29:35.829 --> 00:29:40.490
practice what religion they want. But we decided as a
517
00:29:40.529 --> 00:29:45.920
nation that the greater danger is always ceding those rights
518
00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:48.460
to the government, letting the government decide so as much
519
00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:51.119
as possible. Yeah, right. We limit that. And what is
520
00:29:51.140 --> 00:29:53.279
the Bill of Rights? The freedom of speech. What is it?
521
00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:55.200
It's a limitation on government.
522
00:29:55.420 --> 00:29:55.680
Right.
523
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.019
People don't think about it that way, but your freedom
524
00:29:58.039 --> 00:30:04.170
of speech, yes, you're... That constitutional right is really limiting government.
525
00:30:04.190 --> 00:30:09.119
That's the point of it. And so, you know, when
526
00:30:09.150 --> 00:30:14.099
it comes to these mandated medicines, the reason the coercion
527
00:30:14.140 --> 00:30:16.180
is so bad is the government told you you should
528
00:30:16.200 --> 00:30:18.140
get it, which the government should never be involved with,
529
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.559
in my opinion. As you know, if you're reading my book.
530
00:30:21.420 --> 00:30:25.269
And once they've made that policy and said, Dylan, you
531
00:30:25.309 --> 00:30:31.309
have to take this. And you say no. Government does
532
00:30:31.349 --> 00:30:36.460
what government does, which is, okay, I'm going to coerce you. First,
533
00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:37.960
I'm going to just put a little pressure on you.
534
00:30:38.259 --> 00:30:41.119
Then when you don't listen, I'm going to say, your
535
00:30:41.140 --> 00:30:42.920
job might be on the line. And then when you
536
00:30:42.940 --> 00:30:45.079
don't listen, I'm going to say, you're going to lose
537
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:46.819
your job. And then I'm going to throw your kids
538
00:30:46.859 --> 00:30:48.859
out of school. And you're still not listening. Oh, you're
539
00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:52.089
even posting online against what I'm saying. Now I'm going
540
00:30:52.109 --> 00:30:55.289
to censor you. All of the things that we're trying
541
00:30:55.349 --> 00:30:58.609
to avoid. And so that coercion got worse and worse
542
00:30:58.670 --> 00:31:02.930
and worse until Luckily, it broke and so forth. But anyway.
543
00:31:03.670 --> 00:31:06.049
Yeah. I mean, foundationally, everything we were built on kind
544
00:31:06.069 --> 00:31:09.490
of got thrown out the window, didn't it? I mean,
545
00:31:10.549 --> 00:31:12.930
it or at least attempted to be.
546
00:31:12.970 --> 00:31:16.970
It was an attempt to do it. And thank goodness. I, man,
547
00:31:17.130 --> 00:31:21.349
I so remember that when they ordered those lockdowns. Right.
548
00:31:21.970 --> 00:31:25.609
I remember thinking, that's it. people are going to take
549
00:31:25.650 --> 00:31:28.750
to the street and protest. You want to tell me
550
00:31:28.769 --> 00:31:30.630
to stay at home? You want to recommend it? Great.
551
00:31:30.789 --> 00:31:33.289
And I'll do it if I want to. But if
552
00:31:33.450 --> 00:31:36.539
I want to go, if my 80 year old father-in-law
553
00:31:36.619 --> 00:31:40.119
wants to go get his latte, this is America. That's freedom.
554
00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:42.000
You should be able to do it. And if the seven,
555
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.700
18 year old kid who's totally healthy with no comorbidities
556
00:31:45.279 --> 00:31:46.920
wants to live in his basement, he should be able
557
00:31:46.960 --> 00:31:48.940
to do that too. Right. Let him make that choice.
558
00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:50.940
He can go wear a mask, get a shot every
559
00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:53.240
day and live in his basement. Let him do that.
560
00:31:54.390 --> 00:31:58.950
But what's this idea of you can't leave your home?
561
00:31:59.430 --> 00:32:03.279
That's called prison. That's incarceration. I don't remember there being
562
00:32:03.319 --> 00:32:06.150
a trial. I didn't hear a judge issue a ruling
563
00:32:06.170 --> 00:32:08.539
that you did something wrong and you've got to stay
564
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:12.680
in your house now. That was unbelievable. And the scariest
565
00:32:12.720 --> 00:32:16.140
part for me, I'll be honest, was how many people
566
00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:19.640
not only went along with it, but clamored for it.
567
00:32:20.019 --> 00:32:25.490
I know. That was very scary to me. Again, I'm
568
00:32:25.529 --> 00:32:27.990
not saying you can't stay at home. Stay at home
569
00:32:28.029 --> 00:32:31.170
if you want, but don't coerce people to do it.
570
00:32:31.829 --> 00:32:34.549
I told my wife, this is, this is, this is
571
00:32:34.589 --> 00:32:35.130
the logic.
572
00:32:35.170 --> 00:32:37.509
We were on vacation in Florida around this time. It
573
00:32:37.529 --> 00:32:41.970
was like probably the year after it happened. And, you know,
574
00:32:41.990 --> 00:32:48.859
you go to the restaurant and miraculously COVID. Doesn't transmit
575
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:52.019
if you're eating, but if you get up and go walk, man,
576
00:32:52.079 --> 00:32:53.299
that stuff is lethal.
577
00:32:53.700 --> 00:32:55.849
But it's okay as long as you're sitting there, right?
578
00:32:55.890 --> 00:32:56.309
It's fine.
579
00:32:56.369 --> 00:32:58.849
Just like on the airplane. The airplane one kills me.
580
00:33:00.029 --> 00:33:02.269
It's good if you're eating, no problem. But man, as
581
00:33:02.309 --> 00:33:04.589
soon as you stop eating that thing, that thing will
582
00:33:04.630 --> 00:33:08.519
spread like wildfire. It was the same thing, I'd say...
583
00:33:09.670 --> 00:33:11.970
Everything's closing at eight o'clock because of COVID or nine.
584
00:33:12.049 --> 00:33:13.950
Why does it all of a sudden get more lethal
585
00:33:13.990 --> 00:33:15.029
at nine o'clock at night?
586
00:33:15.470 --> 00:33:17.190
I mean, the.
587
00:33:16.609 --> 00:33:20.369
Logic that was being passed around and the people that
588
00:33:20.470 --> 00:33:25.230
bought it, I was sitting there going, like I often do,
589
00:33:25.789 --> 00:33:29.210
what just happened? Like I woke up and what happened
590
00:33:29.509 --> 00:33:31.069
to everybody's common sense?
591
00:33:32.549 --> 00:33:34.049
Power of persuasion, right?
592
00:33:34.589 --> 00:33:39.150
Power of words and verbs and everything else that's used that, uh,
593
00:33:39.940 --> 00:33:44.099
People just fall in line and believe whatever that they hear.
594
00:33:44.279 --> 00:33:46.660
And I'm not saying be rebellious. I'm not saying be
595
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.000
an anarchist. I'm not saying any of that. I'm saying
596
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:50.900
use common sense.
597
00:33:51.660 --> 00:33:54.500
Yeah. I mean, I don't, I mean, listen, for most folks,
598
00:33:55.140 --> 00:33:56.960
and let's say you have to get through your day, right?
599
00:33:57.220 --> 00:33:58.500
You have to use cultural cognition.
600
00:33:58.759 --> 00:33:58.960
Right.
601
00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:02.440
I mean, it's, you know, not everybody can research every
602
00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:06.009
single thing before they make a decision, but that one, right.
603
00:34:06.130 --> 00:34:09.570
Is not just like buying a, you know, a TV. Right.
604
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:12.159
Like the government's telling you, stay at home six feet,
605
00:34:12.820 --> 00:34:15.619
do this, do that. You know, uh, but I think
606
00:34:15.659 --> 00:34:19.719
people to the credit of, of, of the wisdom of
607
00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:23.659
the majority, right. To the, to the credit of the
608
00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:27.010
wisdom of the collective, I should say, not the majority. Um,
609
00:34:27.809 --> 00:34:29.449
most people, a lot of people do wake up and
610
00:34:29.469 --> 00:34:32.289
they woke up relatively quickly to your point about the, uh,
611
00:34:33.170 --> 00:34:35.349
these not, you know, these rules that just made no sense.
612
00:34:35.960 --> 00:34:37.480
First of all, I had a lot of fun in
613
00:34:37.539 --> 00:34:41.820
court with those arguments. We represented, for example, 17 members
614
00:34:41.860 --> 00:34:44.070
of Congress to challenge the mask mandate on planes. And
615
00:34:44.570 --> 00:34:46.210
you can imagine the type of arguments we got to
616
00:34:46.250 --> 00:34:46.909
make in that case.
617
00:34:46.969 --> 00:34:47.269
Right.
618
00:34:48.030 --> 00:34:52.699
Or when they required companies with over 100 employees to
619
00:34:52.739 --> 00:34:55.500
require masking or getting a COVID vaccine. Remember that one?
620
00:34:55.559 --> 00:34:55.880
Yes.
621
00:34:55.980 --> 00:35:00.199
We represented a car dealership in a major city. happened
622
00:35:00.219 --> 00:35:02.500
to have over 100 employees. Almost all the other car
623
00:35:02.519 --> 00:35:05.110
dealerships did not. So it was like the only one
624
00:35:05.139 --> 00:35:09.030
affected on this long strip of car dealerships. You get
625
00:35:09.090 --> 00:35:15.789
into this nonsense situation and put aside the fact the
626
00:35:15.809 --> 00:35:19.230
vaccine doesn't stop transmission, which is true of most vaccines, again.
627
00:35:19.250 --> 00:35:24.190
But look, most people, they view CDC as a medical organization.
628
00:35:24.769 --> 00:35:29.719
They think that they're making science-based decisions. They just don't.
629
00:35:30.179 --> 00:35:32.969
Think about the fact that the CDC is a government organization,
630
00:35:33.010 --> 00:35:37.050
not a medical organization. They make policy and they drive
631
00:35:37.070 --> 00:35:40.170
their policy. Whether that's based on science or not, that's
632
00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:41.489
a whole different question.
633
00:35:41.550 --> 00:35:44.210
That's what I wanted you to just for people that
634
00:35:44.250 --> 00:35:46.429
when you say terms like CDC, like we know what
635
00:35:46.449 --> 00:35:48.110
that is, but a lot of people don't.
636
00:35:48.130 --> 00:35:51.659
Just tell everybody what that is and what they do. Okay.
637
00:35:52.039 --> 00:35:52.199
Sure.
638
00:35:52.219 --> 00:35:54.820
The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
639
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:55.079
Right.
640
00:35:55.449 --> 00:35:59.389
CDC is a government agency. It's part of the United
641
00:35:59.429 --> 00:36:03.210
States Department of Health and Human Services, which I'll call HHS.
642
00:36:03.710 --> 00:36:07.329
So Robert F. Kennedy Jr. right now is the secretary
643
00:36:07.369 --> 00:36:13.480
of HHS. HHS is the federal department in which all
644
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:17.800
our federal health agencies are located. So the CDC, the FDA,
645
00:36:17.820 --> 00:36:20.059
the Food and Drug Administration that's headed by Marty McCary
646
00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:22.969
right now, the National Institute of Health that's headed by
647
00:36:22.989 --> 00:36:27.139
Jay Bhattacharya. and a whole slew of other agencies, HRQ,
648
00:36:27.360 --> 00:36:30.530
and I'm going to go through them all. And so
649
00:36:30.840 --> 00:36:34.230
when I refer to CDC, that's what I'm referring to. And,
650
00:36:35.789 --> 00:36:38.389
you know, so people, you know, get on TV and
651
00:36:38.429 --> 00:36:41.210
they're watching the TV and, you know, there's an incredible
652
00:36:41.230 --> 00:36:44.150
amount of fear mongering, just like they fear monger about
653
00:36:45.070 --> 00:36:51.519
any other disease pathogen for which there are vaccines. They
654
00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:54.409
go and they fear monger if, far out of proportion
655
00:36:54.429 --> 00:36:57.349
from what the reality is. It's amazing. When there's no
656
00:36:57.389 --> 00:36:59.550
money to be made, there's no fear-mongering, though, is there?
657
00:37:01.250 --> 00:37:03.909
Always follow the money, and it always leads to the
658
00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:06.300
answer that you want. I mean, seriously, if you are
659
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:10.780
at a loss, follow the money. I mean, it's sad
660
00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:11.320
but true.
661
00:37:12.099 --> 00:37:16.409
Often. Yeah, often that's the case. So I want to
662
00:37:16.449 --> 00:37:19.090
go down the hierarchy. Okay.
663
00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:24.739
So, you know, and, and I, and I commented to
664
00:37:24.780 --> 00:37:27.489
you before, I'm a very, and everybody knows I'm a
665
00:37:27.489 --> 00:37:30.969
extremely spiritual guy and I operate God first.
666
00:37:31.050 --> 00:37:32.809
And that's what drives me to even do any of
667
00:37:32.849 --> 00:37:33.269
this work.
668
00:37:33.909 --> 00:37:37.730
And so your chapter names and titles and everything are just.
669
00:37:37.849 --> 00:37:40.230
They fall perfectly into the story.
670
00:37:41.030 --> 00:37:45.130
And so we start off with part one here and
671
00:37:45.170 --> 00:37:47.230
it's called the clergy. And we start with the high
672
00:37:47.289 --> 00:37:50.679
priest himself. And, and I, I don't, I, I shouldn't
673
00:37:50.739 --> 00:37:52.360
say this, but as soon as I read that name,
674
00:37:52.420 --> 00:37:54.139
because I had no clue who this guy is, I
675
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:56.539
was like, man, he just sounds like a bad guy,
676
00:37:56.599 --> 00:37:58.760
like a Marvel comic that would be an evil guy.
677
00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:01.500
Like it's just the name. I don't know why. And
678
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.360
then I start reading and I go, okay, makes sense.
679
00:38:03.659 --> 00:38:06.300
Fall in line. So why don't you tell me who
680
00:38:06.389 --> 00:38:08.090
is this guy, Stanley Plotkin?
681
00:38:08.150 --> 00:38:11.929
Why is he at the top of your hierarchy here
682
00:38:11.969 --> 00:38:15.170
as the godfather of, what is it, vaccinology?
683
00:38:15.190 --> 00:38:18.630
Yeah. Yeah. The godfather of vaccines, which is what he's
684
00:38:19.170 --> 00:38:24.059
often dubbed. He is the world's leading vaccinologist. Now, when
685
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:29.530
I say vaccinologist or vaccinology, that is a discipline, right?
686
00:38:29.690 --> 00:38:31.210
So if you have a heart condition, you'll go to
687
00:38:31.230 --> 00:38:34.070
a cardiologist, right? And if you want to go to
688
00:38:34.090 --> 00:38:37.230
the folks who study, develop, so forth, vaccines, you go
689
00:38:37.250 --> 00:38:40.119
to a vaccinologist, right? Those are the folks. People think
690
00:38:40.139 --> 00:38:42.960
of like pediatricians as the vaccine experts, but they don't
691
00:38:42.980 --> 00:38:47.619
know anything about vaccines. My typical deposition of a pediatrician is,
692
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:50.320
I have to go pretty light. I mean, they don't
693
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:54.170
know anything about the products, really. They give them a lot. Sure. But,
694
00:38:56.329 --> 00:38:58.969
you know, it's like you go to a surgeon who
695
00:38:59.070 --> 00:39:02.670
uses one of these, you know, robotics to do surgery,
696
00:39:02.690 --> 00:39:05.329
but they don't know anything about how that's made, what
697
00:39:05.369 --> 00:39:07.320
it is, you know, and so forth. But let's leave
698
00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:11.000
that aside. So, you know, in the medical profession, most
699
00:39:11.039 --> 00:39:15.119
people think of doctors and the doctors are knowledgeable about vaccines.
700
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:19.550
But the reality is that Most doctors know nothing about vaccines.
701
00:39:20.110 --> 00:39:24.429
The ones that people might suspect know stuff about vaccines
702
00:39:24.469 --> 00:39:29.530
would be pediatricians, immunologists, and infectious disease doctors. They think, oh, well,
703
00:39:29.550 --> 00:39:32.840
those folks know stuff about vaccines. They don't know almost
704
00:39:32.860 --> 00:39:37.599
anything about vaccines either, about the products themselves. That really
705
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:43.019
leaves the vaccinologists. The vaccinologists are the ones who do
706
00:39:43.039 --> 00:39:45.960
the peer-reviewed studies on vaccines. They do the clinical trials
707
00:39:46.019 --> 00:39:49.199
on vaccines. They write the medical textbooks on vaccines. And
708
00:39:49.389 --> 00:39:55.820
that creates the science around vaccines, the clinical trials, the
709
00:39:55.860 --> 00:40:00.570
peer-reviewed literature, the medical textbooks. And then that science is
710
00:40:00.590 --> 00:40:05.030
what then filters down and is relied upon and used
711
00:40:05.090 --> 00:40:08.329
by the rest of the medical profession, by the CDC,
712
00:40:08.409 --> 00:40:10.730
by the federal agencies to set policy and so forth.
713
00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:13.929
So what the vaccinologists do and the way they approach
714
00:40:13.969 --> 00:40:16.090
vaccines is really important to understand.
715
00:40:16.179 --> 00:40:17.000
Right. Please.
716
00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:17.340
Right.
717
00:40:17.380 --> 00:40:20.800
Because think about it like this. The vaccinologists, the way
718
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:23.090
they think, will impact how a clinical trial is done.
719
00:40:23.550 --> 00:40:25.789
That clinical trial then gets done, is then relied upon
720
00:40:25.829 --> 00:40:28.210
the FDA to whether to license the vaccine. The FDA,
721
00:40:28.269 --> 00:40:30.659
once it licenses, goes to the CDC to decide whether
722
00:40:30.679 --> 00:40:33.300
to recommend it nationally. If the CDC recommends it and
723
00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:36.119
puts it on their list, then the states might go
724
00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:39.880
and mandate it. Once they've mandated it, the pediatricians then
725
00:40:39.940 --> 00:40:42.829
all start injecting it. Then they tell you, oh, the
726
00:40:42.849 --> 00:40:45.849
CDC said it's safe and effective. Everybody in the country
727
00:40:45.869 --> 00:40:48.070
is now getting this product. It's being promoted as safe
728
00:40:48.110 --> 00:40:50.690
and effective. It becomes part of this entire, I mean,
729
00:40:50.710 --> 00:40:54.050
there's a giant economic underbelly to this too, right? And
730
00:40:54.070 --> 00:40:56.599
when you trace that all back, where does it end up?
731
00:40:56.610 --> 00:40:58.409
It ends up right back in the hands of the
732
00:40:58.449 --> 00:41:02.599
vaccinologists and what they did. So understanding what the vaccinologists
733
00:41:02.940 --> 00:41:05.780
are thinking and doing affects it. It's the same way,
734
00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.679
you know, when it comes to, it doesn't impact people
735
00:41:10.699 --> 00:41:13.619
in the same way, but you think of like heart medicines, right?
736
00:41:13.909 --> 00:41:16.179
Where does that start? But I don't want to go
737
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:19.780
down that analogy. It might get too complicated. So, vaccinologists,
738
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:23.820
very important. And at the top of that heap is Dr.
739
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.530
Stanley Plotkin. He is the world's leading vaccinologist. The medical
740
00:41:27.610 --> 00:41:32.230
textbook on vaccines, right there. Look at that. It's right there.
741
00:41:32.269 --> 00:41:37.570
There it is. It's called Plotkin's Vaccines. And it is the,
742
00:41:37.849 --> 00:41:42.949
I can lean back. There you see it. That is
743
00:41:43.110 --> 00:41:47.969
the standard textbook, medical textbook, On vaccines, okay? He has
744
00:41:48.150 --> 00:41:53.869
also developed many of the vaccines, the rubella vaccine, rotavirus vaccine,
745
00:41:54.070 --> 00:41:57.190
numerous others, been part of the chickenpox vaccine, polio vaccine,
746
00:41:57.230 --> 00:42:00.769
go down the list. He's probably published more articles and
747
00:42:02.170 --> 00:42:05.800
so forth than anybody in the field of vaccinology. And
748
00:42:05.860 --> 00:42:08.099
as Dr. Paul Offit, you may have heard of him,
749
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:15.699
he might be the most famous vaccinologist, has said, that Dr.
750
00:42:15.739 --> 00:42:19.530
Stanley Plotkin, who was Dr. Poloff's mentor, has trained a
751
00:42:20.130 --> 00:42:25.889
whole generation of vaccinologists to think the way Dr. Stanley
752
00:42:25.909 --> 00:42:31.210
Plotkin thinks. So the way that that gentleman thinks is
753
00:42:31.550 --> 00:42:35.789
critical to understand because he then taught the rest of
754
00:42:35.809 --> 00:42:40.449
the vaccinologists who then, like I said, really govern this discipline.
755
00:42:41.190 --> 00:42:44.130
And so, you know, um, It's like people look at
756
00:42:44.230 --> 00:42:47.889
Fauci and they thought, oh, Fauci, he knows. The reality is,
757
00:42:48.090 --> 00:42:49.969
in my view, Fauci is just relying on what the
758
00:42:49.989 --> 00:42:52.309
vaccinologists are saying. I don't think Fauci really knows much
759
00:42:52.329 --> 00:42:56.210
about vaccines. You know, that's why Fauci probably, maybe he
760
00:42:56.250 --> 00:43:00.389
was even surprised that if you inject the vaccine in
761
00:43:00.429 --> 00:43:05.880
the arm, right, for COVID, that, you know, let me
762
00:43:05.900 --> 00:43:07.380
put it this way. Do you remember how they were
763
00:43:07.579 --> 00:43:10.719
all surprised? Michelle Walensky, the then head of the CDC said,
764
00:43:11.610 --> 00:43:13.909
They were like, really? Oh my God, we just figured
765
00:43:13.929 --> 00:43:20.170
out the COVID vaccine doesn't stop transmission. Okay, so let's
766
00:43:20.210 --> 00:43:23.190
get this straight. You're going to inject this vaccine in
767
00:43:23.230 --> 00:43:26.750
the arm and you're where, you know, well, it might
768
00:43:26.789 --> 00:43:30.150
generate IgG antibodies in your bloodstream, but you expected it
769
00:43:30.210 --> 00:43:34.320
to create IgA mucosal immunity in your mucosal surfaces in
770
00:43:34.340 --> 00:43:39.119
your respiratory tract. Really? What vaccine does that? Let's go
771
00:43:39.139 --> 00:43:42.150
through them. Does the pertussis vaccine do that? Do some
772
00:43:42.190 --> 00:43:47.260
of the other non-live, non-live vaccines that we inject create
773
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:51.380
immunity in the respiratory tract on your mucosal surfaces, right?
774
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:55.659
Meaning they don't think, I don't, watching these folks on TV,
775
00:43:56.159 --> 00:44:00.489
it was like, for me, it was like watching, you know,
776
00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:03.030
it was like a comedy. It was a little bit
777
00:44:03.070 --> 00:44:07.230
of a joke because they're not even, they were not
778
00:44:07.349 --> 00:44:11.909
even thinking through the most basic principles of vaccinology. Now,
779
00:44:12.070 --> 00:44:18.579
in this field, Dr. Stanley Plotkin's views really have permeated.
780
00:44:18.679 --> 00:44:22.119
So as you know, you read the book. I had
781
00:44:22.179 --> 00:44:26.480
an opportunity to pose him in 2018 and go through
782
00:44:27.219 --> 00:44:31.570
so much, a lot of areas of vaccines, in particular
783
00:44:31.590 --> 00:44:35.210
vaccine safety. And so I start the book by laying
784
00:44:35.349 --> 00:44:39.530
out lots of sections from that deposition, not even to
785
00:44:39.570 --> 00:44:43.079
get into the substance of vaccines, but rather to show
786
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:48.619
you the way vaccinologists approach vaccines, approach clinical trials, approach
787
00:44:48.659 --> 00:44:49.489
vaccine safety.
788
00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:54.489
Yeah, you know, and reading this, and when you read something,
789
00:44:54.510 --> 00:44:57.690
you can't hear tone, but you can look at this
790
00:44:57.769 --> 00:45:00.159
and see and make your own assessment on the tone
791
00:45:00.300 --> 00:45:02.460
based upon the question that you're asking him. And I
792
00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:07.289
just got a lot of this brass tone I know everything,
793
00:45:07.489 --> 00:45:09.869
you don't know anything type of response and just take
794
00:45:09.909 --> 00:45:12.469
my word for it type of thing with a lot
795
00:45:12.530 --> 00:45:15.909
of lack of real substance on the things that you
796
00:45:15.949 --> 00:45:16.989
were digging at.
797
00:45:17.070 --> 00:45:19.260
And I read the way that you asked the questions.
798
00:45:19.320 --> 00:45:22.420
I mean, it was fair. It was straight down the middle.
799
00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:24.380
I couldn't look at what you said because I was
800
00:45:24.420 --> 00:45:26.960
looking at what you said to be like, ah, well,
801
00:45:27.019 --> 00:45:29.420
he's kind of being funky about the way he's asking
802
00:45:29.460 --> 00:45:30.780
or being tricky or slick.
803
00:45:31.139 --> 00:45:31.969
And there was nothing.
804
00:45:32.010 --> 00:45:34.210
I couldn't find anything that you did that wasn't like
805
00:45:34.250 --> 00:45:37.400
the most basic of basic questions that should have a
806
00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:41.400
fairly simple answer. And that's what, that's when I started
807
00:45:41.440 --> 00:45:47.239
to like get a little bothered where I'm like, but unfortunately,
808
00:45:47.409 --> 00:45:50.710
as much as I hate politics, I have taken time
809
00:45:50.869 --> 00:45:53.010
as I've gotten older with the understanding some of this
810
00:45:53.030 --> 00:45:55.349
stuff is important and most people just don't watch and
811
00:45:55.389 --> 00:45:57.309
they don't know what's going on. So I'll watch some
812
00:45:57.369 --> 00:46:00.070
things so I can see how things are done and
813
00:46:00.130 --> 00:46:01.289
how questions are asked.
814
00:46:01.909 --> 00:46:03.050
And I'll watch some of these things.
815
00:46:03.130 --> 00:46:06.619
And one, and again, I hate to say things negative
816
00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:08.800
about people, but the intelligent level on a lot of
817
00:46:08.840 --> 00:46:11.440
these people that are talking is so poor. It's astounding
818
00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:15.199
how they ever got into these seats. But two, the
819
00:46:15.219 --> 00:46:18.090
way they never actually answer a question. And so this
820
00:46:18.139 --> 00:46:22.190
guy is supposed to be the vaccine guy, which you
821
00:46:22.210 --> 00:46:25.550
would assume means this guy's brilliant. I mean, if I'm
822
00:46:25.590 --> 00:46:27.210
looking at it from the surface, I would think that
823
00:46:27.230 --> 00:46:30.550
the person that is known for vaccines, which is probably
824
00:46:30.610 --> 00:46:33.269
one of the most intricately done types of medicines or
825
00:46:33.409 --> 00:46:35.510
compounds that you could ever look at, you would think
826
00:46:35.550 --> 00:46:37.550
this would be like an Einstein genius.
827
00:46:38.010 --> 00:46:40.250
And I'm not getting that from your questioning here on
828
00:46:40.289 --> 00:46:45.730
his answers. Well, I think he's intelligent. I do think Dr.
829
00:46:45.750 --> 00:46:48.860
Simon Plotkin is very intelligent. I just think that he
830
00:46:48.889 --> 00:46:52.539
has gone 50 years in his career being showered with accolades,
831
00:46:53.380 --> 00:46:56.440
being the darling of the vaccinology world. And who's challenged him?
832
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:02.889
When did he ever have to actually face real scrutiny?
833
00:47:03.469 --> 00:47:05.550
By who? By his own profession?
834
00:47:05.969 --> 00:47:06.210
No.
835
00:47:06.730 --> 00:47:12.320
By the pharma companies that had supported him, gave him
836
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:16.019
incredible amounts of support, paid him millions of dollars? No.
837
00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:18.860
By the federal health agencies?
838
00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:18.940
No.
839
00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:24.000
That literally the CDC, the vaccine committee, the gavel that's
840
00:47:24.260 --> 00:47:28.519
used at the CDC's vaccine committee is called Plotkin's gavel.
841
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:33.269
You think those folks gave him pushback? Who gave him pushback? Nobody.
842
00:47:33.650 --> 00:47:36.250
So he's gone his whole career without ever getting pushback.
843
00:47:36.369 --> 00:47:39.670
And so all nine hours of this deposition are available
844
00:47:39.690 --> 00:47:41.690
on the internet. You can watch it. You can go
845
00:47:41.710 --> 00:47:45.829
to thehighwire.com and just search Plotkin. You can watch all
846
00:47:45.869 --> 00:47:49.119
nine hours. They're right there. I remember when this video
847
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:54.000
first came out, the mother who I represented, she had
848
00:47:54.119 --> 00:47:57.269
given it to a bunch of outlets and it ended
849
00:47:57.309 --> 00:48:01.329
up on YouTube and it had millions of views. And
850
00:48:01.369 --> 00:48:04.570
as you could see, this is the world's leading vaccinologist
851
00:48:04.829 --> 00:48:09.199
just answering questions. They're just questions and he's giving the answers.
852
00:48:09.820 --> 00:48:13.670
After millions and millions of views, YouTube took it down. Yeah,
853
00:48:13.849 --> 00:48:16.900
and then I never put it up there. People just
854
00:48:16.920 --> 00:48:18.980
kept putting it up, and it would then go up again,
855
00:48:19.219 --> 00:48:21.219
and we'd take it down. I mean, I would say
856
00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:24.900
to this day, I get e-mails, messages all the time.
857
00:48:24.940 --> 00:48:28.719
I've watched all nine hours and blah, blah, blah. So,
858
00:48:29.139 --> 00:48:31.409
you know, anybody who wants can watch all nine hours,
859
00:48:31.449 --> 00:48:34.230
but I highly recommend it. I would say that's often
860
00:48:34.250 --> 00:48:36.730
been the entry point of a lot of people to
861
00:48:36.750 --> 00:48:40.170
get in because if you want to– what better way
862
00:48:40.250 --> 00:48:44.119
to see the, I guess, the truth, the facts– than
863
00:48:44.159 --> 00:48:49.070
in an adversarial context, right? Where the world's leading vaccine
864
00:48:49.150 --> 00:48:51.429
expert is being asked questions and you get to hear
865
00:48:51.449 --> 00:48:56.670
the answers, right? So, but yeah, I don't, you know, he's,
866
00:48:58.110 --> 00:49:06.320
to his credit, to his credit, he tried really hard
867
00:49:07.219 --> 00:49:11.210
to maneuver the answers as best he could But I don't,
868
00:49:11.369 --> 00:49:13.369
but he, you know, for the most part did not
869
00:49:13.489 --> 00:49:15.699
just outright lie, Yeah.
870
00:49:15.739 --> 00:49:15.889
Right.
871
00:49:15.929 --> 00:49:20.280
He tried. He was trying to be, you know, he's
872
00:49:20.340 --> 00:49:21.480
trying the best he could.
873
00:49:22.059 --> 00:49:24.280
Well, and when you don't get challenged and it's so
874
00:49:24.420 --> 00:49:26.519
easy for you over time, then you're not prepared for
875
00:49:26.539 --> 00:49:30.059
that either. So he probably wasn't thoroughly prepared for what
876
00:49:30.099 --> 00:49:30.619
was coming.
877
00:49:30.639 --> 00:49:34.969
Oh, I. Hey, look, if somebody let me put it
878
00:49:34.989 --> 00:49:38.210
this way. When I get asked to, let's say, testify
879
00:49:38.250 --> 00:49:42.349
before a, you know, a state, I've testified before a
880
00:49:42.389 --> 00:49:45.949
lot of state health committees. I like to go to
881
00:49:45.969 --> 00:49:48.010
the ones where there's lots of folks who don't agree
882
00:49:48.050 --> 00:49:50.289
with me. I want, because it makes it interesting. Yeah,
883
00:49:50.409 --> 00:49:52.829
of course. Those are the best exchanges. I want to
884
00:49:52.869 --> 00:49:55.210
be challenged. Yeah. And I'm ready to do that. I
885
00:49:55.210 --> 00:49:57.530
don't prepare for it. I just have my base of knowledge.
886
00:49:57.610 --> 00:49:57.869
Right.
887
00:49:58.050 --> 00:50:01.630
Okay. He's had 50 years. He's the world's leading vaccineologist.
888
00:50:01.650 --> 00:50:04.469
If you can't answer these basic questions, That's just not
889
00:50:04.489 --> 00:50:06.969
something you need to prepare for. Like if somebody wanted
890
00:50:06.989 --> 00:50:09.309
to debate right now, pull off it or stay at
891
00:50:09.329 --> 00:50:13.389
your standard pocket or any vaccinologist tomorrow, literally tomorrow wants
892
00:50:13.409 --> 00:50:15.510
to get on a stage. We each get 10 minutes
893
00:50:15.570 --> 00:50:16.989
back and forth. I just want to project you to
894
00:50:17.010 --> 00:50:19.139
present evidence. Let's do it. Right. I don't need to
895
00:50:19.159 --> 00:50:24.920
prepare for that. Right. Let's do it. That's he. And
896
00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:28.800
it's not like I went and ambushed him at his house. Yeah.
897
00:50:28.940 --> 00:50:32.059
He volunteered to be an expert witness in a case
898
00:50:32.099 --> 00:50:36.309
about vaccines. We had, I think it was months before,
899
00:50:36.469 --> 00:50:38.150
you know, he volunteered and where he showed up there.
900
00:50:38.670 --> 00:50:40.369
So you had a lot of time to prepare. He
901
00:50:40.489 --> 00:50:43.070
knew he was going to be questioned. So anyway.
902
00:50:43.750 --> 00:50:46.789
Well, but some of these people, they're very cocky when
903
00:50:46.829 --> 00:50:49.320
they're above like that. And they've been on a pedestal
904
00:50:49.340 --> 00:50:52.260
for so long. And they just think whatever I say
905
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:53.719
is going to be gospel.
906
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:55.500
And, you know. You know what a lot of the
907
00:50:55.519 --> 00:50:59.550
awards in the world of X-nology have in their names? Plotkin,
908
00:50:59.610 --> 00:51:03.130
the Plotkin Award on Vaccinata, the Plotkin. You know the
909
00:51:03.170 --> 00:51:05.130
best part of many of those awards? He's won his
910
00:51:05.190 --> 00:51:09.820
own awards. How does that even happen? He gets the
911
00:51:09.860 --> 00:51:12.960
first one. So they name it, you know, the Infectious
912
00:51:12.980 --> 00:51:15.000
Disease Society, and they give him the first one. I
913
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:16.920
haven't been slapped an award in my own name.
914
00:51:16.940 --> 00:51:20.949
Listen, just a couple of these I want to cite. Sure. Sure.
915
00:51:23.610 --> 00:51:26.099
So that I found troubling right off the bat where
916
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:27.679
I was like three.
917
00:51:27.500 --> 00:51:30.380
Minutes in and I was like, what? What's going on here?
918
00:51:31.139 --> 00:51:33.960
So here, right here. Question.
919
00:51:34.300 --> 00:51:38.409
You consulted for the big four vaccine manufacturers, correct?
920
00:51:39.219 --> 00:51:43.090
Plotkin, yes. You're in the corporate advisory board of numerous
921
00:51:43.130 --> 00:51:48.519
vaccine developers, correct? Plotkin, yes. You've received royalties from the
922
00:51:48.579 --> 00:51:52.260
sale of one or more vaccines, correct? Plotkin, yes.
923
00:51:52.940 --> 00:51:55.659
I mean, I don't even need to expound any further.
924
00:51:55.739 --> 00:52:03.309
Does that not just scream bad? Well, I'll cabinet in
925
00:52:03.369 --> 00:52:07.150
this way. Being a consultant for a vaccine company, fine.
926
00:52:07.730 --> 00:52:11.250
Right. Working for a vaccine company, fine. Taking millions of
927
00:52:11.269 --> 00:52:13.670
dollars from them, fine. It's America. It's capitalism.
928
00:52:13.750 --> 00:52:13.969
Great.
929
00:52:14.130 --> 00:52:16.730
Fine. You won't do that stuff. The problem I have
930
00:52:17.230 --> 00:52:20.429
with him is not that he accepted all that money. So, okay,
931
00:52:20.449 --> 00:52:26.920
that's fine. It's that he is conceived as an impartial
932
00:52:27.000 --> 00:52:31.159
scientist by the medical community, by the health authorities, by
933
00:52:31.179 --> 00:52:37.389
the health agencies. That is the problem. Meaning those conflicts,
934
00:52:37.929 --> 00:52:42.050
those deep, really concerning conflicts, they're just not viewed as conflicts.
935
00:52:42.650 --> 00:52:47.210
Imagine this, imagine I went to trial and this happens
936
00:52:47.230 --> 00:52:49.829
to me all the time in vaccine cases. And I
937
00:52:49.889 --> 00:52:52.469
came to trial about a car for Goodyear tires that
938
00:52:52.489 --> 00:52:55.949
were blown up. And I put my expert witness, I'm Goodyear,
939
00:52:55.969 --> 00:52:58.800
I'm representing Goodyear. I get my expert on the stand
940
00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:01.659
to tell you that Goodyear tires are really good. So
941
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:03.619
I put my expert on the stand and the other
942
00:53:03.639 --> 00:53:07.000
side gets up and says, okay, so you're impartial expert. Absolutely.
943
00:53:07.940 --> 00:53:11.059
You are the world's leading impartial expert on tires. Yes, okay.
944
00:53:12.429 --> 00:53:15.659
Have you ever taken money from Goodyear? Uh, yeah. How much? Millions.
945
00:53:15.719 --> 00:53:18.380
Ever consult for them? Yes. Ever take royalties from them? Yes.
946
00:53:18.780 --> 00:53:22.179
You're like, this guy's not, that's, you'd be, you'd be laughing.
947
00:53:22.659 --> 00:53:24.760
You would be like, this is a joke. That's what
948
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:28.539
I thought. Who would do that? Yeah. I get this
949
00:53:29.460 --> 00:53:32.019
all the time in vaccine case. All right, everybody.
950
00:53:32.059 --> 00:53:35.300
Welcome back to the Dylan Jameli podcasts. As you can see,
951
00:53:35.389 --> 00:53:38.449
I have a little bit different setting here and it
952
00:53:38.510 --> 00:53:39.150
is phenomenal.
953
00:53:39.170 --> 00:53:42.500
I must say, but, uh, I have.
954
00:53:42.340 --> 00:53:45.900
A topic of discussion and a guest today that is
955
00:53:48.099 --> 00:53:50.679
falls in line with what I do because I like
956
00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:52.820
to tell everybody that I'm an arbiter of truth.
957
00:53:52.900 --> 00:53:55.059
I don't pick sides. I don't play games.
958
00:53:55.159 --> 00:53:59.460
I don't conspiratory type of behavior.
959
00:53:59.519 --> 00:54:01.199
I don't do any of that. I just give you
960
00:54:01.239 --> 00:54:03.019
what I see, what I find and what I know.
961
00:54:03.380 --> 00:54:08.059
And what I've found is that my guest today has
962
00:54:08.099 --> 00:54:11.860
done some of the most honorable and most I'll go
963
00:54:11.900 --> 00:54:13.539
out on a limb here, say some of the most
964
00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:17.280
disturbing yet fascinating work I've ever seen because of what
965
00:54:17.320 --> 00:54:20.989
he's brought to light. And I have grown a massive
966
00:54:21.110 --> 00:54:24.989
interest and a deep appreciation for him and what he's done.
967
00:54:25.329 --> 00:54:28.010
And so while this is not a topic that I.
968
00:54:28.010 --> 00:54:33.960
Generally broach, I have a duty with my platform and
969
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:36.619
what I've done and what I've been able to do
970
00:54:36.719 --> 00:54:40.639
by putting out the truth. And, uh, When my guest
971
00:54:40.699 --> 00:54:43.400
approached me, I was a little hesitant at first to
972
00:54:43.440 --> 00:54:46.360
take on this topic. But I'll tell you what, after
973
00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:49.159
talking with him and reading his book, Cover to Cover,
974
00:54:51.110 --> 00:54:53.849
I have to tell you something. I have a duty here,
975
00:54:53.889 --> 00:54:55.489
and so I'm spotlighting him today. I'm going to give
976
00:54:55.510 --> 00:54:56.670
him a brief introduction.
977
00:54:57.050 --> 00:55:01.829
He's the managing partner of the Siri and Glimstad LLP,
978
00:55:01.869 --> 00:55:05.590
which is a national firm of over 100 professionals focused
979
00:55:05.650 --> 00:55:08.570
on civil rights, class actions, and complex litigation.
980
00:55:09.820 --> 00:55:14.860
And he has led high-profile cases challenging medical mandates and
981
00:55:14.920 --> 00:55:20.219
restored exemptions. And he has a new book out that
982
00:55:20.239 --> 00:55:22.579
we're going to discuss today that is going to blow
983
00:55:22.619 --> 00:55:23.239
the roof.
984
00:55:23.159 --> 00:55:25.320
Off everything that's put out there.
985
00:55:25.340 --> 00:55:27.460
And I'm just going to give him the opportunity to
986
00:55:27.500 --> 00:55:30.599
go from start to finish and give.
987
00:55:30.980 --> 00:55:32.739
Nothing but facts.
988
00:55:33.239 --> 00:55:37.139
No emotion, no whatever our belief system is, straight down
989
00:55:37.159 --> 00:55:41.469
the middle facts. His book right here, Vaccines, Amen, this
990
00:55:41.530 --> 00:55:45.269
is a life-changing book on a variety of levels, not
991
00:55:45.289 --> 00:55:47.150
just for the information on here, but the lives that
992
00:55:47.190 --> 00:55:47.710
it can save.
993
00:55:48.250 --> 00:55:49.969
And that's what I'm here to do with my guest today.
994
00:55:50.030 --> 00:55:54.750
So my friends, Aaron Seary. Good to see you. Thanks
995
00:55:54.769 --> 00:55:56.730
for having me out here, man. I appreciate it. I
996
00:55:56.769 --> 00:55:58.090
really do. Oh, it's a pleasure.
997
00:55:58.789 --> 00:56:03.030
So my friend, like I said, when you contacted me,
998
00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:06.409
I was a little hesitant because these are touchy topics.
999
00:56:07.139 --> 00:56:09.949
And while I may be have a certain set of
1000
00:56:10.010 --> 00:56:13.630
beliefs on things too. I'm one of those people, I'm
1001
00:56:13.650 --> 00:56:15.610
very open. I like to hear all sides of things.
1002
00:56:15.650 --> 00:56:17.329
So I look at it from all perspectives.
1003
00:56:18.610 --> 00:56:20.909
But what you've done and the amount of time and
1004
00:56:20.949 --> 00:56:23.349
effort you've put into this, I've got to tell you, brother,
1005
00:56:25.670 --> 00:56:28.610
I hold you in an extremely high regard for the
1006
00:56:28.710 --> 00:56:33.550
work that you've done, for your ability to just go
1007
00:56:33.650 --> 00:56:37.010
all out. So I ask you first and foremost, before
1008
00:56:37.050 --> 00:56:41.730
we get into the book, anything, What's your driving force
1009
00:56:41.809 --> 00:56:43.920
to do this? Because it is one of those things
1010
00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:45.900
that can get you a lot of hate and it
1011
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:48.400
can get a lot of people coming after you. So
1012
00:56:49.059 --> 00:56:51.820
what is it for you that makes you want to
1013
00:56:51.900 --> 00:56:59.449
even touch this? Freedom. Everybody should have the individual and
1014
00:56:59.510 --> 00:57:03.449
civil right to say no without any coercion to a
1015
00:57:03.489 --> 00:57:09.010
medical product. And here's the thing about that. Mandating a
1016
00:57:09.050 --> 00:57:12.199
medical product, It doesn't hurt those who want to get it.
1017
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:14.389
They're going to get it anyway. So who does it hurt?
1018
00:57:15.570 --> 00:57:17.489
It hurts the type of people that our firm deals
1019
00:57:17.510 --> 00:57:21.889
with every day. It hurts families whose child may have
1020
00:57:21.909 --> 00:57:24.369
been seriously injured or even died from one of these products.
1021
00:57:25.449 --> 00:57:27.780
They then make the choice to not receive another one.
1022
00:57:28.619 --> 00:57:31.380
And what happens to them? Do they get empathy? Do
1023
00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:32.119
they get sympathy?
1024
00:57:32.760 --> 00:57:32.920
No.
1025
00:57:35.400 --> 00:57:36.719
They try to kick their kids out of school.
1026
00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:37.440
Right.
1027
00:57:38.219 --> 00:57:41.840
They get gaslit at doctor's offices. They get called selfish
1028
00:57:41.880 --> 00:57:44.840
and any other horrible, all kinds of other horrible names.
1029
00:57:45.889 --> 00:57:48.030
Think about the way they talk about people who don't vaccinate,
1030
00:57:48.050 --> 00:57:52.030
especially five, six years ago, pre-COVID, right? Think about the
1031
00:57:52.130 --> 00:57:55.309
way those folks are treated. Imagine I told you there's
1032
00:57:55.329 --> 00:57:59.590
a group of people that, you know, and pick a
1033
00:57:59.610 --> 00:58:02.369
racial group, pick an ethnic group, pick a religious group,
1034
00:58:02.809 --> 00:58:03.949
and I say to you, you know what we should
1035
00:58:03.969 --> 00:58:07.639
do to that group of people, Dylan? Let's throw them
1036
00:58:07.659 --> 00:58:12.389
out of school. kick them out of their jobs. They're selfish.
1037
00:58:12.429 --> 00:58:19.599
They're bad people. They're anti-science. They're crazy. They're radical. They
1038
00:58:19.679 --> 00:58:23.000
and their children don't deserve the same rights as everybody
1039
00:58:23.099 --> 00:58:27.539
else for making what a medical decision that they, that
1040
00:58:27.559 --> 00:58:29.699
the public or some don't agree with. Think about that.
1041
00:58:31.380 --> 00:58:35.409
And then think about, think about how, how horrible that
1042
00:58:35.469 --> 00:58:39.130
is to be that family. where your child was just
1043
00:58:39.230 --> 00:58:44.739
seriously injured by this product. You should have the opposite
1044
00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:48.480
from society. You should have empathy. You should have understanding.
1045
00:58:48.539 --> 00:58:51.219
You should have support. It's not what happens to these folks.
1046
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:56.380
And so, you know, it's those families and it's those
1047
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:58.340
rights that drive me in this space.
1048
00:58:59.880 --> 00:59:01.820
I'm with you 100%. I struggle so much with.
1049
00:59:05.969 --> 00:59:09.809
this whole concept of this force.
1050
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:13.659
Being put on somebody and taking away rights canceling people
1051
00:59:13.739 --> 00:59:16.260
all of these things that i saw go on that
1052
00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:19.119
you know you were in a position like for me
1053
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:21.969
personally with what i do i mean what you got
1054
00:59:21.989 --> 00:59:23.449
to be careful with what you say at all times
1055
00:59:23.489 --> 00:59:26.630
because then they come in droves to attack you and
1056
00:59:26.690 --> 00:59:30.840
it's like this cult of of people that have this
1057
00:59:30.980 --> 00:59:35.460
strange motive because I think I always referenced this to
1058
00:59:35.539 --> 00:59:38.179
like Looney Tunes, you know, with Bugs Bunny when he
1059
00:59:38.219 --> 00:59:40.570
turned on the TV and it, it hypnotizes them.
1060
00:59:40.590 --> 00:59:42.590
He turns into this evil bunny, you know what I mean?
1061
00:59:42.650 --> 00:59:43.889
And then goes after everybody.
1062
00:59:43.909 --> 00:59:49.050
And I feel like that media and marketing and the
1063
00:59:49.110 --> 00:59:51.210
way that they push these things out, they're so good
1064
00:59:51.230 --> 00:59:54.250
at brainwashing people into thinking one thing without looking at
1065
00:59:54.409 --> 00:59:55.710
each opposite.
1066
00:59:55.389 --> 00:59:58.469
End of the spectrum. And it's, It's one of the
1067
00:59:58.530 --> 01:00:00.230
most troubling things I've ever seen.
1068
01:00:00.250 --> 01:00:03.250
I ask you this, when do you feel like this
1069
01:00:03.289 --> 01:00:07.679
started happening, this coercion almost? And I hate to even
1070
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:10.280
use that word, but it's on the surface of everything
1071
01:00:10.300 --> 01:00:11.380
that you wrote, everything.
1072
01:00:11.099 --> 01:00:11.860
That we all see.
1073
01:00:12.719 --> 01:00:14.860
So when do you feel like this, I think it's
1074
01:00:14.900 --> 01:00:16.659
probably gone on since the beginning of time, but when
1075
01:00:16.679 --> 01:00:18.159
do you think it became so prevalent?
1076
01:00:19.829 --> 01:00:27.590
Well, like truly prevalent was around, I'd say around 2015.
1077
01:00:27.619 --> 01:00:32.599
And that's when California, excuse me, 2000 and yeah, 2015.
1078
01:00:32.579 --> 01:00:39.389
And that's when California eliminated the exemption to be able
1079
01:00:39.409 --> 01:00:42.909
to send your child to school without required vaccine. You know,
1080
01:00:42.969 --> 01:00:45.170
up until that point, it was basically a check the
1081
01:00:45.210 --> 01:00:48.090
box exemption. I know everybody says, well, there have been
1082
01:00:48.130 --> 01:00:50.820
mandates for attending school for forever. But the truth is,
1083
01:00:51.440 --> 01:00:53.400
is that if you got a mandate, but there's a
1084
01:00:53.420 --> 01:00:56.000
check the box exemption, it's not really a mandate. It's
1085
01:00:56.019 --> 01:01:01.550
like a mandate, no mandate, right? When California did that
1086
01:01:01.710 --> 01:01:06.590
and eliminated the exemption, left a narrow medical exemption, which
1087
01:01:06.650 --> 01:01:09.269
is the state reviews and it's impossible to obtain based
1088
01:01:09.309 --> 01:01:14.329
on how they amended it, that and impacting 40 million people,
1089
01:01:15.159 --> 01:01:19.199
tens of thousands of people left California, basically like refugees.
1090
01:01:20.000 --> 01:01:22.679
And who are these folks? These are the families I
1091
01:01:22.699 --> 01:01:25.920
just told you about, right? These are the families, they can't...
1092
01:01:27.559 --> 01:01:32.420
Medical exemptions and vaccination are not based on medicine. Nothing
1093
01:01:32.440 --> 01:01:40.139
to do with medicine. They are a government policy-driven approach
1094
01:01:40.179 --> 01:01:43.460
to granting an exemption. The CDC creates something called a
1095
01:01:44.179 --> 01:01:47.809
table of countermeasures and precautions, and the states follow it.
1096
01:01:48.869 --> 01:01:53.010
And that's not science-driven. That's based on what the CDC
1097
01:01:53.090 --> 01:01:56.269
wants to put on the table. It doesn't even include...
1098
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:59.139
almost a fraction of the known things that can cause
1099
01:01:59.199 --> 01:02:03.579
injury from vaccines validated by the Institute of Medicine and others, okay?
1100
01:02:04.440 --> 01:02:07.480
And so, you know, families that want to protect their
1101
01:02:07.519 --> 01:02:10.929
children or families that have one or more religious beliefs
1102
01:02:10.969 --> 01:02:15.449
contrary to the practice of vaccination, like some folks oppose abortion.
1103
01:02:16.889 --> 01:02:19.849
In every single vial of an MMR vaccine or a
1104
01:02:19.849 --> 01:02:25.190
chickenpox vaccine, there are literally billions of pieces of DNA
1105
01:02:26.070 --> 01:02:29.480
from the cultured cell line of an aborted fetus. Really?
1106
01:02:29.579 --> 01:02:33.480
Billions of pieces. That is, I mean, it's all in
1107
01:02:33.500 --> 01:02:36.420
my book. That might sound unbelievable to anybody watching. Yeah.
1108
01:02:36.780 --> 01:02:41.699
But that's what the evidence reflects. There's no, there's not
1109
01:02:41.739 --> 01:02:47.059
really a contested point. In fact, it is no contest
1110
01:02:47.440 --> 01:02:51.980
that there's DNA and cellular debris from the aborted cell
1111
01:02:52.000 --> 01:02:55.510
line of aborted fetus in those vaccines. And the reason
1112
01:02:55.530 --> 01:02:57.809
they're in there is because you got to grow a
1113
01:02:57.829 --> 01:02:58.630
virus in cells.
1114
01:02:58.849 --> 01:02:59.050
Right.
1115
01:02:59.750 --> 01:03:02.110
So what do they grow it on? They grow it
1116
01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:04.400
on the cells from an aborted fetus. So some people
1117
01:03:04.420 --> 01:03:06.880
have moral objections to that. They don't want to participate.
1118
01:03:06.900 --> 01:03:10.760
They don't want to inject billions of pieces from an
1119
01:03:10.780 --> 01:03:14.980
aborted fetus cell line into their children. But yet those
1120
01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:17.480
folks were also kicked out. So I think 2015 really
1121
01:03:17.500 --> 01:03:21.150
was an inflection of white. Then New York State did it.
1122
01:03:21.300 --> 01:03:23.889
And then Connecticut and Maine also got rid of their exemptions.
1123
01:03:24.369 --> 01:03:25.969
Up until that point, there were only two states in
1124
01:03:25.989 --> 01:03:29.139
the country, Mississippi and West Virginia, that didn't have an exemption.
1125
01:03:29.519 --> 01:03:32.800
But they're smaller states, not very populated, and you could
1126
01:03:32.840 --> 01:03:34.699
just live across the border or send your kids across
1127
01:03:34.719 --> 01:03:39.519
the border, which often happened. And so I'd say that
1128
01:03:40.340 --> 01:03:42.710
was an inflection point. But really, if I was going
1129
01:03:42.730 --> 01:03:47.010
to go to what led up to that, another big
1130
01:03:47.030 --> 01:03:49.949
inflection point was 1986 and the passage of the National
1131
01:03:49.969 --> 01:03:53.650
Childhood Vaccine Injury Act. We're going to get into that. Yeah.
1132
01:03:54.349 --> 01:03:56.880
I'm going to put you on the stand real quick. Sure.
1133
01:03:56.900 --> 01:03:58.980
We're going to do a role reversal. Okay.
1134
01:03:59.039 --> 01:04:03.150
So just to give a little bit of background for
1135
01:04:03.210 --> 01:04:04.949
anybody that's questioning you. Yeah.
1136
01:04:05.070 --> 01:04:06.159
Okay, because....
1137
01:04:07.170 --> 01:04:08.949
One of the things that I have to battle, which
1138
01:04:09.010 --> 01:04:11.869
I really don't anymore, because once people listen and see
1139
01:04:12.190 --> 01:04:13.889
what I do and how I talk is, well, you
1140
01:04:13.909 --> 01:04:16.750
don't got 35 letters after your name. So you, you
1141
01:04:16.789 --> 01:04:19.409
can't know what you're talking about. And then I explain
1142
01:04:19.429 --> 01:04:21.559
what's actually going on in medical school. And I say, well,
1143
01:04:21.599 --> 01:04:23.179
we can sit down and go back and forth. I'm
1144
01:04:23.199 --> 01:04:25.900
down if you want to compare and see where we go.
1145
01:04:26.619 --> 01:04:29.679
And so, you know, what I look for in every
1146
01:04:30.219 --> 01:04:33.000
person that I interview, that's going one way or another
1147
01:04:33.139 --> 01:04:35.420
is what's the barriers that they have to overcome.
1148
01:04:36.090 --> 01:04:36.960
Let's talk about it.
1149
01:04:36.969 --> 01:04:41.289
So give them a chance to explain without somebody going
1150
01:04:41.429 --> 01:04:43.289
crazy on you and yelling at.
1151
01:04:43.190 --> 01:04:45.150
You without giving the opportunity to talk.
1152
01:04:45.489 --> 01:04:48.650
Sure. Go ahead and set and kind of get into
1153
01:04:49.829 --> 01:04:53.889
what makes you somebody that people can listen to. Like
1154
01:04:54.010 --> 01:04:56.809
what is it that you've done that you've experienced that
1155
01:04:56.969 --> 01:05:01.010
qualifies you to discuss the topics and give the information
1156
01:05:01.050 --> 01:05:03.010
that you've given? So you know people are going to
1157
01:05:03.050 --> 01:05:04.449
ask that and they're going to throw that at you.
1158
01:05:05.019 --> 01:05:06.690
I know the answer to that, but I want you
1159
01:05:06.710 --> 01:05:08.469
to explain it to everybody else. Sure.
1160
01:05:09.369 --> 01:05:11.650
Well, I would say my number one qualification is that
1161
01:05:12.070 --> 01:05:14.710
I think about vaccines. I don't believe in them. I
1162
01:05:14.769 --> 01:05:19.280
read and I think. Right. And I have no feelings
1163
01:05:19.320 --> 01:05:23.099
about the products. They're just products. But if somebody wants
1164
01:05:23.760 --> 01:05:28.949
experience and so forth, I mean, I'll say this. When
1165
01:05:29.010 --> 01:05:31.030
I was at Berkeley for law school, I never thought
1166
01:05:31.050 --> 01:05:33.219
I'd be doing anything with vaccines. Right, I think. And
1167
01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:34.860
then when I clerked for the chief judge of the
1168
01:05:34.880 --> 01:05:36.820
Supreme Court of Israel for you after law school, I
1169
01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:39.159
didn't think I'd be doing the vaccine. And then when
1170
01:05:39.219 --> 01:05:42.980
I worked at the, you know, one of the five biggest,
1171
01:05:43.139 --> 01:05:47.469
three biggest law firms, most prestigious firms in America for
1172
01:05:47.550 --> 01:05:51.869
almost six years representing, you know, massive companies and bet
1173
01:05:52.130 --> 01:05:55.789
the company litigation. I didn't think I'd be doing any vaccines.
1174
01:05:57.090 --> 01:05:58.599
Even when I left to start my own firm well
1175
01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:00.780
over a decade ago, I didn't think I'd be doing that.
1176
01:06:00.960 --> 01:06:03.699
You know, I left and I was still doing commercial litigation,
1177
01:06:04.940 --> 01:06:08.409
you know, representing public traded companies, even a few hundred
1178
01:06:08.449 --> 01:06:11.710
million dollars in dispute, where we used to work before
1179
01:06:11.730 --> 01:06:14.769
I moved from, it was billions of dollars in dispute. And,
1180
01:06:17.090 --> 01:06:21.329
you know, there was an inflection point, and the inflection
1181
01:06:21.369 --> 01:06:25.119
point was 2015, what we just talked about, where they
1182
01:06:25.179 --> 01:06:28.780
started excluding, they excluded those families in California, and then
1183
01:06:28.800 --> 01:06:31.659
they started doing that in New York. And at that
1184
01:06:31.719 --> 01:06:35.119
point I had, you know, I had already learned some
1185
01:06:35.519 --> 01:06:38.239
about vaccines, not much. I didn't know anything about the
1186
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:42.050
science at that point. Um, uh, but you know, it
1187
01:06:42.250 --> 01:06:45.630
struck me as just intuitively there was, there was something
1188
01:06:45.710 --> 01:06:48.769
wrong about it. And so I started bringing some lawsuits
1189
01:06:48.809 --> 01:06:53.789
in this area. Um, and over time this became my
1190
01:06:53.829 --> 01:06:58.960
main focus of practice. Um, over the last decade I have, um,
1191
01:07:00.460 --> 01:07:03.219
I have deposed some of the world's leading vaccinologists, including
1192
01:07:03.239 --> 01:07:08.860
the world's leading vaccinologists. I've deposed immunologists, infectious disease doctors, pediatricians.
1193
01:07:09.500 --> 01:07:13.800
I have brought endless lawsuits against state health departments and
1194
01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:17.739
federal and all kinds of federal agencies, CDC, FDA, NIH,
1195
01:07:17.800 --> 01:07:23.260
go down the list. And during that, those last 10
1196
01:07:23.260 --> 01:07:27.030
years of litigating pretty much anything you can litigate around vaccines,
1197
01:07:27.719 --> 01:07:33.679
if I'm going to have to depose an expert in vaccinology, well,
1198
01:07:33.699 --> 01:07:38.820
I've got to know everything I can. And so my
1199
01:07:38.889 --> 01:07:41.670
office isn't filled with law books on the shelf. It's
1200
01:07:41.769 --> 01:07:44.989
all medical textbooks around this discipline and the disciplines I
1201
01:07:45.030 --> 01:07:50.889
just mentioned, books on vaccinology, immunology, infectious disease, pediatrics, and
1202
01:07:50.929 --> 01:07:55.409
more recently, some genetics as well. And so I've had
1203
01:07:55.769 --> 01:08:03.539
to During that process, when I litigate around vaccines, I
1204
01:08:03.579 --> 01:08:07.880
don't get to go into court and brandish credentials. I
1205
01:08:07.900 --> 01:08:11.659
don't get to go in court and say, I'm an MD, PhD, MPH,
1206
01:08:11.719 --> 01:08:13.719
so what I say, you should just listen to. I
1207
01:08:13.719 --> 01:08:16.869
don't get to do that. I have to prove everything
1208
01:08:16.949 --> 01:08:24.470
I say about vaccines with evidence, data, not credentials. Not
1209
01:08:24.550 --> 01:08:27.920
only that, so... I have to carefully look at it
1210
01:08:27.979 --> 01:08:29.579
and present it. And if you go to look at
1211
01:08:29.600 --> 01:08:32.699
most of my court, my court papers, I'm not citing
1212
01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:35.779
to stuff that anybody would say that's not credible. It's
1213
01:08:35.819 --> 01:08:39.399
mostly CDC data. It's FDA clinical trial reports. It's Institute
1214
01:08:39.420 --> 01:08:41.979
of medicine reports. It's, you know, it's the stuff that
1215
01:08:42.020 --> 01:08:44.420
they tell you should rely upon. Right.
1216
01:08:44.439 --> 01:08:44.739
Right.
1217
01:08:44.779 --> 01:08:46.819
They just don't, I don't even know if they really
1218
01:08:46.859 --> 01:08:47.739
look at it.
1219
01:08:47.890 --> 01:08:48.149
No.
1220
01:08:48.430 --> 01:08:54.210
And then separately in those litigations, not only do I
1221
01:08:54.229 --> 01:08:59.880
have to carefully evaluate the evidence and present it properly
1222
01:08:59.939 --> 01:09:03.300
to be able to win my cases, I also have
1223
01:09:03.340 --> 01:09:07.449
to learn the underlying substance. I also get to hold
1224
01:09:07.510 --> 01:09:10.289
them to their proof. If you make a claim, if
1225
01:09:10.390 --> 01:09:15.250
they make a claim that vaccines X, I get in
1226
01:09:15.289 --> 01:09:18.960
discovery X. subpoena you or give you a doc request
1227
01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:21.840
and say, give me the evidence. Give me the support
1228
01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:25.470
for that claim. Right? And then I get to put
1229
01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:27.310
you in a room and depose you for nine hours
1230
01:09:27.369 --> 01:09:30.470
and say, all right, what's the proof? What's the support?
1231
01:09:30.550 --> 01:09:32.090
And then we can go to trial and I can
1232
01:09:32.109 --> 01:09:34.890
put you on the scan and cross-examine you. That kind
1233
01:09:34.930 --> 01:09:38.260
of process, everybody says, oh, well, we've got to have
1234
01:09:38.300 --> 01:09:40.840
this public debate on vaccines, right? I have them all
1235
01:09:40.859 --> 01:09:41.199
the time.
1236
01:09:41.479 --> 01:09:41.640
Yeah.
1237
01:09:42.079 --> 01:09:46.800
I have exactly the debate in those depositions in those
1238
01:09:46.840 --> 01:09:52.630
court cases. So over that decade of experience, I've got
1239
01:09:52.670 --> 01:09:57.329
to see firsthand and had to critically and carefully evaluate
1240
01:09:57.369 --> 01:10:02.439
the evidence and the data about these products. So over
1241
01:10:02.489 --> 01:10:05.520
that period of time, there is what public health authorities
1242
01:10:05.560 --> 01:10:09.180
say about vaccines. There's also, by the way, what you'll
1243
01:10:09.220 --> 01:10:12.619
randomly see on the internet about vaccines. There's all kinds
1244
01:10:12.680 --> 01:10:16.539
of stuff said about vaccines. And then there's what the data,
1245
01:10:16.920 --> 01:10:20.079
the evidence actually shows. And so I rely on the
1246
01:10:20.119 --> 01:10:22.970
primary sources. And then that's what I lay out in
1247
01:10:23.010 --> 01:10:23.439
my book.
1248
01:10:26.569 --> 01:10:30.590
It's always so telling to me when these people that
1249
01:10:30.670 --> 01:10:34.369
have the credentials, but then they sit across from you
1250
01:10:35.090 --> 01:10:36.750
and they got to really be put on the spot
1251
01:10:36.789 --> 01:10:40.409
with no screens around them to answer for them, nobody
1252
01:10:40.590 --> 01:10:42.069
influencing what they can say.
1253
01:10:42.109 --> 01:10:45.369
They're on the spot. They're directly in front of your
1254
01:10:45.529 --> 01:10:49.149
face and have nothing to rely on but themselves. And
1255
01:10:49.189 --> 01:10:52.609
what I find so often is that a lot of
1256
01:10:52.649 --> 01:10:55.670
these people, they don't know a fraction of what they
1257
01:10:55.710 --> 01:10:59.529
come across to know or try to dance, a dance
1258
01:10:59.550 --> 01:11:01.180
around which I'm sure you see it all the time.
1259
01:11:02.020 --> 01:11:05.119
And I have learned so much over time having direct
1260
01:11:05.300 --> 01:11:09.310
one-on-one conversation and, you know, I try to be versatile
1261
01:11:09.350 --> 01:11:12.199
and well-rounded in what I do. And like to what
1262
01:11:12.260 --> 01:11:16.060
you said, you're already kind of handcuffed because you're not
1263
01:11:16.079 --> 01:11:18.460
the expert. So you have to go and spend all
1264
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:19.460
your time.
1265
01:11:19.380 --> 01:11:23.140
Researching and be ready for everything, right? And that's what
1266
01:11:23.180 --> 01:11:27.090
I do with my podcast guests that I research everything.
1267
01:11:27.149 --> 01:11:29.069
So when we get in here, I can go back
1268
01:11:29.109 --> 01:11:31.649
and forth with you and I know what I'm talking about. So,
1269
01:11:32.470 --> 01:11:36.600
you know, you put in extra work and yeah, I'm
1270
01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:38.960
telling you, with what I read and what I've seen
1271
01:11:39.039 --> 01:11:43.720
over time, these people, they hide behind a lot of stuff.
1272
01:11:44.100 --> 01:11:46.899
They really do, and we're going to get into that,
1273
01:11:46.960 --> 01:11:50.399
but I think that when you're in the position that
1274
01:11:50.460 --> 01:11:55.510
you're in that makes you so credible is you get
1275
01:11:55.989 --> 01:11:59.390
in these one-on-one conversations and you really pull that out
1276
01:11:59.409 --> 01:12:00.170
and you really.
1277
01:11:59.970 --> 01:12:04.590
Get to see, man, they're lying. They're lying. Or they're leading...
1278
01:12:04.689 --> 01:12:07.609
Or they're answering, dancing like a politician. Well, you can't
1279
01:12:07.670 --> 01:12:08.430
answer simple.
1280
01:12:08.229 --> 01:12:09.989
Questions and you got to go off on a separate
1281
01:12:10.020 --> 01:12:12.420
tangent because you, A, don't know the answer or B,
1282
01:12:12.460 --> 01:12:15.760
it's like, ah, I can't answer this, you know? And
1283
01:12:15.819 --> 01:12:19.460
so I'm assuming that you probably over time experienced that.
1284
01:12:19.460 --> 01:12:21.159
Over and over and over and were like, wait a minute,
1285
01:12:21.920 --> 01:12:24.359
this just doesn't add up. This just doesn't make sense.
1286
01:12:24.420 --> 01:12:26.340
And I'm sure that's probably part of the reason why
1287
01:12:26.359 --> 01:12:27.640
you dug so deep and did this.
1288
01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:32.149
I mean, it honestly didn't take that long, you know,
1289
01:12:32.510 --> 01:12:35.229
within a year or two, it became pretty apparent, especially
1290
01:12:35.289 --> 01:12:38.850
after I deposed Dr. Stanley Plotkin, who's the world's leading vaccinologist.
1291
01:12:39.770 --> 01:12:43.229
It really brought that position in particular, just really brought
1292
01:12:43.250 --> 01:12:47.000
it home for me because up until that point, I was,
1293
01:12:47.659 --> 01:12:50.739
you know, looking at all the primary sources, for example.
1294
01:12:51.920 --> 01:12:55.350
you know, you can't sue manufacturers. I know you want
1295
01:12:55.369 --> 01:12:57.289
to get into that at some point, but you can't
1296
01:12:57.369 --> 01:12:59.829
sue vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injury in America because they
1297
01:12:59.850 --> 01:13:03.069
have immunity for the most part. But you can bring
1298
01:13:03.090 --> 01:13:06.189
a claim in a specialized government program. And when you do,
1299
01:13:06.229 --> 01:13:09.279
you have to prove causation, right? Okay, so I need
1300
01:13:09.319 --> 01:13:11.779
to prove the vaccine caused injury. So where do I start?
1301
01:13:11.800 --> 01:13:14.039
I want to start with the clinical trials. That's how
1302
01:13:14.060 --> 01:13:17.539
you can prove causation. They're prospective. So, you know, they say, oh,
1303
01:13:17.579 --> 01:13:20.760
you can prove causation. So I started looking at all
1304
01:13:20.779 --> 01:13:24.409
the clinical trials. for all the vaccines. That is along with,
1305
01:13:24.989 --> 01:13:28.050
you know, a nonprofit that I represent called ICANN, Information
1306
01:13:28.109 --> 01:13:31.770
Action Network. You know, they wanted to look at vaccine
1307
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:36.100
safety carefully. So, start looking at all the clinical trials. And,
1308
01:13:36.220 --> 01:13:39.119
you know, this is very early on. And I'm like, what?
1309
01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:43.560
You licensed the vaccines for babies on clinical trials with
1310
01:13:44.319 --> 01:13:47.380
days or weeks of safety review after injection? Or even
1311
01:13:47.439 --> 01:13:51.960
only a few months? With no placebo control and Any
1312
01:13:52.020 --> 01:13:54.699
routine injector childhood vaccine, we can get into that. Yeah.
1313
01:13:54.939 --> 01:13:56.800
I know that they fact check that claim a lot,
1314
01:13:56.840 --> 01:13:59.420
but it's categorically true that what I just said. And
1315
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:02.739
you don't have enough kids in the trial. In contrast,
1316
01:14:02.779 --> 01:14:06.550
most drugs robustly trial before licensure. And I said, how
1317
01:14:06.590 --> 01:14:09.090
can this be? And I thought, for example, when I
1318
01:14:09.100 --> 01:14:13.029
deposed Dr. Plotkin, he would show, he proved me wrong.
1319
01:14:13.529 --> 01:14:16.250
He'd show me, no, you're wrong. You know, Mr. Siri,
1320
01:14:16.289 --> 01:14:20.109
you are wrong. And here's a mountain of evidence. You
1321
01:14:20.130 --> 01:14:23.329
didn't have that. And we even subpoenaed him after that deposition. I,
1322
01:14:23.310 --> 01:14:27.539
you know, and instead of producing documents to support what
1323
01:14:27.560 --> 01:14:31.060
he said, supports their safety, he got a lawyer and
1324
01:14:31.079 --> 01:14:35.060
moved to quash it. When it comes to consumer products, okay.
1325
01:14:35.960 --> 01:14:41.260
For every other consumer product in America, planes, trains, cars,
1326
01:14:41.640 --> 01:14:47.689
the sofa you're sitting on this, these glasses, everything. Every chemical,
1327
01:14:48.149 --> 01:14:50.710
every substance, every single thing in your house. Like you
1328
01:14:50.729 --> 01:14:53.649
think of your house, think about your floorboards, your sheetrock.
1329
01:14:54.050 --> 01:14:56.729
What is the insulation? What about your bedsheets? What about
1330
01:14:56.750 --> 01:14:59.029
the fire retardants? Like for every other product, they can
1331
01:14:59.090 --> 01:15:01.090
hurt you. They could do things to hurt you or
1332
01:15:01.109 --> 01:15:01.670
your children.
1333
01:15:02.250 --> 01:15:02.470
Right?
1334
01:15:02.630 --> 01:15:04.310
You talk about health. I mean, this is part of
1335
01:15:04.369 --> 01:15:07.270
what got me attracted to thinking about, like, we should
1336
01:15:07.300 --> 01:15:09.859
have a conversation, you know? I mean, if you're, if
1337
01:15:09.899 --> 01:15:13.020
you're interested in health, this isn't a boring conversation. For
1338
01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:16.210
every one of those products, If they injure you or
1339
01:15:16.229 --> 01:15:19.210
your child, you could sue the company and say, hey,
1340
01:15:20.020 --> 01:15:23.260
had you made this product safer, my kid wouldn't have died.
1341
01:15:23.340 --> 01:15:25.619
My kid wouldn't have gotten injured. My kid wouldn't have cancer.
1342
01:15:25.920 --> 01:15:28.239
My kid wouldn't have some kind of encephalopathy or cardiac
1343
01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:34.079
issue or you name it. Vaccines are the only product
1344
01:15:34.680 --> 01:15:37.779
that I'm aware of that have an immunity that do
1345
01:15:37.819 --> 01:15:40.119
not let you sue the company to make that claim
1346
01:15:40.699 --> 01:15:45.010
because of this law from 1986, okay? And let me
1347
01:15:45.069 --> 01:15:49.250
put that into even sharper focus, okay? People really understand this.
1348
01:15:52.430 --> 01:15:55.840
If you have a car and there's a gas tank,
1349
01:15:55.880 --> 01:15:57.899
and for one penny you could have put a stopper in.
1350
01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:00.439
So if you get into an accident, the gas wouldn't
1351
01:16:00.479 --> 01:16:03.460
flow out and cause an explosion. And you didn't do that.
1352
01:16:05.000 --> 01:16:07.710
We could sue the car company and say, hey, you
1353
01:16:07.729 --> 01:16:10.819
should have had that stopper in. It's technologically feasible. Everybody
1354
01:16:10.840 --> 01:16:13.060
knows it's existing. Other cars are companies doing it. Why
1355
01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:15.220
don't you do it? My family would be alive if
1356
01:16:15.260 --> 01:16:15.739
you did that.
1357
01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:16.300
Right.
1358
01:16:16.460 --> 01:16:19.180
Right. You're not intended, expected to be a car expert,
1359
01:16:19.960 --> 01:16:21.979
but the car companies are expected to be car experts
1360
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:24.239
and they should do the best they can to make
1361
01:16:24.279 --> 01:16:27.460
it safe. Or if I go sell saw blades, right.
1362
01:16:27.880 --> 01:16:29.560
And I decided I'm a cheap out for one penny
1363
01:16:29.579 --> 01:16:31.149
and I'm not going to put a plastic cover on it.
1364
01:16:31.399 --> 01:16:36.239
And you lose your finger using it. I could sue
1365
01:16:36.270 --> 01:16:37.930
you or I could see the company and say, Hey,
1366
01:16:38.520 --> 01:16:41.020
should have put this one penny cover on it, on
1367
01:16:41.039 --> 01:16:44.060
the blade. So I wouldn't have lost my finger. And
1368
01:16:44.159 --> 01:16:48.659
so that is how you get progress. That is why
1369
01:16:48.859 --> 01:16:55.880
products become safer over time because the company can be
1370
01:16:55.960 --> 01:16:59.979
held accountable for the injuries and companies want to make money.
1371
01:17:00.640 --> 01:17:06.560
That's why they're there. And so when it comes to vaccines,
1372
01:17:08.350 --> 01:17:13.069
that incentive has been mostly eliminated. So let's now go
1373
01:17:13.109 --> 01:17:17.350
back to drug products, okay? Drugs are often licensed on
1374
01:17:17.449 --> 01:17:21.380
multi-year placebo-controlled products. Meaning before the drug company puts it
1375
01:17:21.460 --> 01:17:24.260
out on the market, what are they doing? Evaluating it
1376
01:17:24.300 --> 01:17:27.539
for years. Group gets the drug. A group gets a placebo.
1377
01:17:28.020 --> 01:17:30.640
What is the total outcomes between those two groups? Why
1378
01:17:30.680 --> 01:17:34.000
do they do that? Are they altruistic? Are they moral?
1379
01:17:34.039 --> 01:17:37.880
Are they ethical? They do it because They want to
1380
01:17:37.899 --> 01:17:40.100
make sure they're going to make money. And if they
1381
01:17:40.140 --> 01:17:41.720
put a drug out and they don't really know the
1382
01:17:41.779 --> 01:17:44.899
safety profile and it ends up hurting a lot of people,
1383
01:17:45.300 --> 01:17:48.180
they're on the financial hook. They could lose money. Right.
1384
01:17:48.300 --> 01:17:50.380
They don't want to do that. But when it comes
1385
01:17:50.420 --> 01:17:53.159
to vaccines, do they do multi or placebo controlled trials?
1386
01:17:53.850 --> 01:17:54.069
No.
1387
01:17:54.710 --> 01:17:57.609
Why? They don't have to. They don't have to. Right.
1388
01:17:57.989 --> 01:18:02.010
More than that, it's actually worse than that. What is
1389
01:18:02.029 --> 01:18:06.630
their financial incentive? They're not liable if they could have
1390
01:18:06.649 --> 01:18:11.189
made it safer. In fact, their financial incentive is reversed.
1391
01:18:12.029 --> 01:18:16.409
The more safety they do before licensure, the less likely
1392
01:18:16.439 --> 01:18:20.039
they'll get licensed, the less likely they'll make billions. In fact,
1393
01:18:21.079 --> 01:18:22.979
if you're in the boardroom, if you're the CEO, you're
1394
01:18:23.000 --> 01:18:26.880
the CFO, if you actually took those actions to more
1395
01:18:27.020 --> 01:18:29.979
thoroughly review that product, the more you do it, the
1396
01:18:30.020 --> 01:18:32.479
more safety you should find, the less likely you are
1397
01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:36.130
to make money. You don't have to worry about injuries afterwards. Again,
1398
01:18:36.149 --> 01:18:39.739
I mean, it sounds perverse. It sounds horrible. But that is,
1399
01:18:39.819 --> 01:18:45.810
you know, corporations follow the closest and simplest path to profitability.
1400
01:18:46.329 --> 01:18:49.189
And that's what does. And you might say, well, why
1401
01:18:49.210 --> 01:18:53.340
did this law come into use? Well, because leading up
1402
01:18:53.619 --> 01:18:55.760
to 1986, there were only three routine vaccines in the
1403
01:18:55.819 --> 01:19:01.630
United States. That's it. OPV, DTP, and MMR. They were
1404
01:19:01.670 --> 01:19:05.970
causing so much harm that every manufacturer either stopped making
1405
01:19:05.989 --> 01:19:08.890
them or ran out of business. We went down from
1406
01:19:08.899 --> 01:19:13.369
about six measles manufacturers to one, six for pertussis to one,
1407
01:19:14.409 --> 01:19:16.949
three for polio to one, and basically one left for each.
1408
01:19:16.970 --> 01:19:21.449
And that was it. Now, many industries face this crossroad
1409
01:19:22.569 --> 01:19:27.449
where their product is causing more harm than apparently good. Right.
1410
01:19:27.609 --> 01:19:30.689
What do they do? They go out of business. Or
1411
01:19:30.710 --> 01:19:34.060
they make a better product. Right. Make a better product. Oh,
1412
01:19:34.100 --> 01:19:35.739
you're making a lot of money. Okay, let's make a
1413
01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:36.260
better product.
1414
01:19:36.340 --> 01:19:36.560
Yeah.
1415
01:19:36.619 --> 01:19:39.539
My gas tank blows up. Do we stop making cars? No.
1416
01:19:40.699 --> 01:19:43.680
How many products have been found to be carcinogenic? They
1417
01:19:43.699 --> 01:19:46.239
just make one. Without the carcinogen. Right. Think about different
1418
01:19:46.300 --> 01:19:49.770
food products. Think about different, all kinds of things, right? Yeah.
1419
01:19:49.869 --> 01:19:52.710
You don't just, you retool. You go a different direction. Oh,
1420
01:19:52.930 --> 01:19:55.569
you don't like, you don't like, think about all the
1421
01:19:55.609 --> 01:19:58.619
different food conglomerates to use food as an analogy. Did
1422
01:19:58.640 --> 01:20:01.289
they just say, oh, we give up. Everybody's going organic. No,
1423
01:20:01.310 --> 01:20:05.609
they bought the organic companies. They made better, healthier food products.
1424
01:20:05.630 --> 01:20:09.970
Take out the sucralose, add the stevia, right? Okay, exactly.
1425
01:20:09.989 --> 01:20:14.199
I don't want to get into food stuff, but you adapt. Right.
1426
01:20:15.479 --> 01:20:18.300
So that is what they could and should have done. Instead,
1427
01:20:18.340 --> 01:20:22.829
what did Congress do? It did something unprecedented. It said, hey, hey, listen, guys,
1428
01:20:22.869 --> 01:20:26.460
you know what? Instead of you going and retooling and
1429
01:20:26.500 --> 01:20:28.640
making a better product, a product that's not going to
1430
01:20:28.680 --> 01:20:32.100
cause so much harm, we're just going to do something unprecedented.
1431
01:20:32.180 --> 01:20:34.680
We're going to make it so that all those kids
1432
01:20:34.720 --> 01:20:37.250
who are dying from your product or are being seriously
1433
01:20:37.310 --> 01:20:39.430
injured from your product who are suing you, we'll just
1434
01:20:39.470 --> 01:20:41.930
make it so they can't sue you. And that is
1435
01:20:41.949 --> 01:20:44.369
what the National Childhood Act and Injury Act of 1986 did,
1436
01:20:44.810 --> 01:20:47.710
not only for those three products in existence then, and
1437
01:20:47.750 --> 01:20:50.500
this is the, I call it the original said, but
1438
01:20:50.560 --> 01:20:57.260
for any other product Childhood routine vaccine developed thereafter. We've
1439
01:20:57.319 --> 01:21:02.819
gone from a CDC schedule that had only three injections
1440
01:21:02.859 --> 01:21:06.470
in the first year of life, 1986. Three. To now
1441
01:21:06.510 --> 01:21:09.750
a child by one year of age, including in utero,
1442
01:21:09.789 --> 01:21:15.829
gets 29 injections. Every single one of those vaccines was
1443
01:21:15.869 --> 01:21:19.560
developed by a pharmaceutical company hoping to make billions of
1444
01:21:19.579 --> 01:21:24.649
dollars knowing it would not ever be held responsible if
1445
01:21:24.850 --> 01:21:28.949
it killed, injured, maimed, you name it, a child or
1446
01:21:28.989 --> 01:21:33.720
an adult, for the most part, even if it could
1447
01:21:33.729 --> 01:21:37.819
have made its product safer. It knew that beforehand. And
1448
01:21:37.880 --> 01:21:41.039
so you end up with the ridiculous clinical trials that
1449
01:21:41.060 --> 01:21:46.100
you see for vaccines. and the often vacuous post-layer safety literature.
1450
01:21:46.279 --> 01:21:49.380
So this act is only for child or children vaccines,
1451
01:21:49.399 --> 01:21:52.039
or is it for any vaccine? So that's, and that's
1452
01:21:52.060 --> 01:21:54.670
the qualifier I just said about the adults. Yeah. So
1453
01:21:54.810 --> 01:21:58.710
it applies to routine childhood vaccines. They expand it actually
1454
01:21:58.750 --> 01:22:05.010
also to pregnancy. But if the vaccine is covered for children,
1455
01:22:05.770 --> 01:22:09.600
it's then also covered when used by adults. So flu
1456
01:22:09.649 --> 01:22:13.390
shots are routinely recommended for children. So hence, if you're
1457
01:22:13.409 --> 01:22:16.430
an adult and injured, you also, it also has the immunity,
1458
01:22:16.470 --> 01:22:21.729
which is why it covers almost all vaccines, including adults. Right.
1459
01:22:21.789 --> 01:22:22.949
So it's basically all.
1460
01:22:24.069 --> 01:22:30.060
So right here, you've got this chart and it's got
1461
01:22:30.140 --> 01:22:34.420
Pfizer's top four most profitable drugs and vaccines given in
1462
01:22:34.479 --> 01:22:36.520
first six months of life. And we got a safety
1463
01:22:36.560 --> 01:22:39.810
review here. This was another thing I found extremely troubling.
1464
01:22:41.029 --> 01:22:47.760
So Pfizer's top four most profitable drugs, Lipitor, which is statin,
1465
01:22:47.779 --> 01:22:53.739
which of course, Lyrica, Enbrel, L-Keys, and then we've got
1466
01:22:53.760 --> 01:22:57.020
these vaccines given in the first six months. Well, we're
1467
01:22:57.039 --> 01:22:59.340
going down the line here, seven and a half years
1468
01:22:59.420 --> 01:23:03.899
of safety review with a placebo control, six and a half,
1469
01:23:04.039 --> 01:23:05.300
five and two, right?
1470
01:23:05.319 --> 01:23:08.029
Right. Those are for the four drugs. The four drugs.
1471
01:23:08.289 --> 01:23:11.239
According to Money, Inc., in 2019, the four most profitable
1472
01:23:12.060 --> 01:23:15.300
drugs that Pfizer would sell. So they're taking precaution and
1473
01:23:15.340 --> 01:23:18.220
doing the proper type of study here and the control,
1474
01:23:18.239 --> 01:23:20.180
and then you look at the vaccines. And just to
1475
01:23:20.220 --> 01:23:23.390
be clear, those are the clinical trials relied upon to
1476
01:23:23.470 --> 01:23:26.229
license those drugs. So that's what they did before as
1477
01:23:26.289 --> 01:23:28.470
part of the licensure process. So they made them do
1478
01:23:28.510 --> 01:23:30.989
some work here and prove it. Well, when you say
1479
01:23:31.109 --> 01:23:33.720
made them, I will just say that I don't think
1480
01:23:33.729 --> 01:23:37.829
anybody made Pfizer do it. I think Pfizer wanted to
1481
01:23:37.869 --> 01:23:41.399
do it because they wanted to make sure that these,
1482
01:23:41.840 --> 01:23:44.340
they have an economic interest to assure they were safe.
1483
01:23:44.420 --> 01:23:47.539
So they wouldn't lose money. Right. They cause injury. I
1484
01:23:47.579 --> 01:23:50.199
don't think anybody can really make them do. Well, they
1485
01:23:50.220 --> 01:23:52.100
can't necessarily approve it though, if they don't have the
1486
01:23:52.140 --> 01:23:52.699
right data.
1487
01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:52.939
Right.
1488
01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:55.600
I mean, they can do whatever the hell they want technically,
1489
01:23:55.659 --> 01:23:58.460
but you know, if they want to, they want to. Yes.
1490
01:23:58.619 --> 01:24:01.520
You know, did the FDA require, you know, maybe, maybe it's,
1491
01:24:01.640 --> 01:24:03.739
it's a, it's a complicated thing with the FDA, but.
1492
01:24:04.239 --> 01:24:06.859
But I think they had an economic interest to do.
1493
01:24:06.939 --> 01:24:11.100
Sure. Well, here's the part. Here's the part, I would say,
1494
01:24:11.140 --> 01:24:13.899
the fun, not so fun part. The one that really,
1495
01:24:13.979 --> 01:24:16.199
really kind of like morally upset me.
1496
01:24:16.539 --> 01:24:16.699
Yes.
1497
01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:18.819
Because I try to stay unemotional on this stuff to
1498
01:24:18.840 --> 01:24:20.399
the best I can because I don't want that to
1499
01:24:20.439 --> 01:24:21.359
trickle into an interview.
1500
01:24:21.399 --> 01:24:21.899
But you can't.
1501
01:24:21.939 --> 01:24:24.060
When it comes to kids and stuff, dude, I'm sorry, man.
1502
01:24:24.609 --> 01:24:26.529
And this is the one that really got me kind
1503
01:24:26.569 --> 01:24:31.489
of like, okay, what the hell? 28 days, five days,
1504
01:24:31.550 --> 01:24:32.569
three days, and three days?
1505
01:24:33.399 --> 01:24:36.149
After injection, it was a safety review for those products
1506
01:24:36.229 --> 01:24:37.890
on that list. What are you going to know after
1507
01:24:37.930 --> 01:24:43.829
three days? Just before anybody's outraged by the numbers, meaning nothing.
1508
01:24:45.130 --> 01:24:49.449
So five days was for hepatitis B vaccine, recombivax HB.
1509
01:24:49.470 --> 01:24:52.619
It was the clinical trial relied upon to license that
1510
01:24:52.659 --> 01:24:54.979
hep B vaccine, which is given to a newborn baby,
1511
01:24:55.359 --> 01:24:58.659
one of only two vaccines, was licensed based on a
1512
01:24:58.680 --> 01:25:01.779
clinical trial. Unlike those drugs that have multi-year placebo control,
1513
01:25:02.340 --> 01:25:06.600
that had five days of safety monitoring after injection, 147 children,
1514
01:25:06.619 --> 01:25:14.069
by the way, that's it, and no control group. It
1515
01:25:14.189 --> 01:25:19.170
is outrageous, but anybody can go to the FDA website.
1516
01:25:19.189 --> 01:25:22.090
So anybody outraged watching this podcast, just go to the
1517
01:25:22.170 --> 01:25:25.710
FDA website, and it's just right there, or just go
1518
01:25:25.729 --> 01:25:27.890
to the link in the book, That's why every single
1519
01:25:27.930 --> 01:25:30.329
thing I say in this book has a link and
1520
01:25:30.369 --> 01:25:33.329
it's to the FDA source and I permalinked almost everything
1521
01:25:33.350 --> 01:25:36.229
that's permalinkable so it wouldn't get lost. Dude, it's like-
1522
01:25:36.390 --> 01:25:39.010
It is outrageous. Didn't croak in three days, let's go.
1523
01:25:39.189 --> 01:25:42.189
But see, this is why I think understanding the economic
1524
01:25:42.270 --> 01:25:48.550
division is so important. Meaning, why would a pharma company
1525
01:25:49.369 --> 01:25:56.229
risk putting out a product that's injected into every baby, right?
1526
01:25:57.270 --> 01:26:00.260
with only five days of safety, moderate up to injection,
1527
01:26:00.260 --> 01:26:02.359
147 kids and no control group. Why would they do that?
1528
01:26:03.119 --> 01:26:06.039
In my opinion, they do that because they don't have
1529
01:26:06.060 --> 01:26:09.680
an economic interest to be concerned about injuries. If they were,
1530
01:26:09.699 --> 01:26:11.840
what do you think that trial would look like? Probably
1531
01:26:11.859 --> 01:26:14.970
look like Embro or Eliquis or Lipitor or the other ones.
1532
01:26:15.210 --> 01:26:16.710
Multi-year placebo controlled trial.
1533
01:26:17.289 --> 01:26:20.189
I mean, I would personally argue even five years is
1534
01:26:20.250 --> 01:26:23.569
not enough data to really reflect on long term damages
1535
01:26:23.590 --> 01:26:24.829
that something could cause.
1536
01:26:24.930 --> 01:26:27.689
I mean, but a lot better than five days. Of course. Yeah.
1537
01:26:28.329 --> 01:26:32.189
The point is, is they're they're both not great by
1538
01:26:32.310 --> 01:26:35.810
any stretch of the imagination. And I think that I
1539
01:26:35.850 --> 01:26:38.489
think another thing that people don't really know this kind
1540
01:26:38.529 --> 01:26:40.880
of data, how long was something studied or tested?
1541
01:26:41.340 --> 01:26:44.079
You just kind of assume because you're told. Yes. You know,
1542
01:26:44.960 --> 01:26:45.880
to get certain.
1543
01:26:46.500 --> 01:26:48.520
Like, and I hate to go back to it again,
1544
01:26:48.550 --> 01:26:51.199
but to get certain supplements or products approved by the FDA,
1545
01:26:51.229 --> 01:26:52.850
do you know how, I mean, it is so hard.
1546
01:26:52.930 --> 01:26:55.529
Like, most people just give up. Do you know that
1547
01:26:55.550 --> 01:26:59.109
to license, this is, I tweeted this out. I've tweeted
1548
01:26:59.130 --> 01:27:01.390
this out a few times just because I, I don't
1549
01:27:01.430 --> 01:27:04.050
know how else to contrast it. To get a vaccine
1550
01:27:04.090 --> 01:27:08.350
license for chickens, you need at least 21 days. That's
1551
01:27:08.489 --> 01:27:11.630
in the, because that's not by the FDA regulations. that
1552
01:27:11.689 --> 01:27:15.319
is a different agency, all right, that does, that governs agriculture,
1553
01:27:16.000 --> 01:27:18.659
they require 21 days. But yet here we have a
1554
01:27:18.739 --> 01:27:21.819
vaccine given to human babies that was licensed based on
1555
01:27:21.859 --> 01:27:24.000
five days. And that, by the way, just, I want
1556
01:27:24.020 --> 01:27:27.189
to put, just to put this into further context, they're like, well,
1557
01:27:27.229 --> 01:27:29.250
they probably had a hundred hep B vaccines that were
1558
01:27:29.270 --> 01:27:32.449
already licensed, so they knew. We say, no. This was
1559
01:27:32.590 --> 01:27:39.439
actually the very first recombinant DNA vaccine ever licensed. It's a,
1560
01:27:39.750 --> 01:27:46.010
brand new technology at the time. So there had never
1561
01:27:46.069 --> 01:27:51.890
been a hep B vaccine licensed for children generally. There
1562
01:27:51.930 --> 01:27:54.819
was a different hep B vaccine that came out in 1981.
1563
01:27:54.810 --> 01:27:58.949
It was, they made it, nobody wanted it for the
1564
01:27:58.989 --> 01:28:02.189
most part because it was made human, excuse me, using
1565
01:28:02.250 --> 01:28:06.689
human blood from each hep B positive individual. So they,
1566
01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:12.239
actually recruited people from communities that were more likely to
1567
01:28:12.300 --> 01:28:14.760
have intravenous drug use and so forth, more likely to
1568
01:28:14.779 --> 01:28:17.520
have hep B, and they would use their blood and
1569
01:28:17.600 --> 01:28:19.350
take out, and they would use that to make it,
1570
01:28:19.359 --> 01:28:22.130
so it wasn't very popular. And that product was also
1571
01:28:22.170 --> 01:28:24.350
very limited. I mean, they used it for some adults.
1572
01:28:24.930 --> 01:28:27.850
They used it for newborns of hep B positive mothers,
1573
01:28:28.350 --> 01:28:30.270
but they didn't use it generally for children, so it
1574
01:28:30.289 --> 01:28:33.270
wasn't licensed for that group. Moreover, the trials for that
1575
01:28:33.310 --> 01:28:36.449
were very were also not, you know, of this kind
1576
01:28:36.479 --> 01:28:40.340
you can. And the safety baseline for that product was
1577
01:28:40.380 --> 01:28:44.140
not established. Critically, it wasn't used as the control for
1578
01:28:44.180 --> 01:28:48.600
this product anyway. And even if it was, 147 kids,
1579
01:28:48.619 --> 01:28:52.359
if I did a safety monitoring, it would have been irrelevant.
1580
01:28:53.020 --> 01:28:55.909
So this trial, and this is what I mean, there
1581
01:28:55.970 --> 01:28:58.989
is what the public health authorities tell you. Right. It
1582
01:28:59.050 --> 01:29:00.890
is what CDC has on their site. It's what the
1583
01:29:01.010 --> 01:29:03.430
FDA says. It's what the vaccine knowledge say. It's what
1584
01:29:03.449 --> 01:29:05.710
the public health authorities say. It's what the medical community says.
1585
01:29:06.109 --> 01:29:12.380
The most robustly trialed products out there, right? There's nothing.
1586
01:29:12.460 --> 01:29:16.079
We're super careful. But then there's a reality. And the
1587
01:29:16.119 --> 01:29:19.739
reality is what you just read. Five days, 21 days,
1588
01:29:20.239 --> 01:29:23.199
three days for some of them. I mean, it's... Let
1589
01:29:25.229 --> 01:29:25.949
me put it this way.
1590
01:29:27.250 --> 01:29:27.310
If.
1591
01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:30.930
Dylan, if you said to me, Aaron, I want you
1592
01:29:30.970 --> 01:29:38.909
to come up with the craziest, most nefarious thing. You
1593
01:29:38.949 --> 01:29:42.369
can come up with that. I mean, I want something crazy, man. Like, Aaron,
1594
01:29:42.390 --> 01:29:48.140
give me something crazy. I could sit here for probably
1595
01:29:48.199 --> 01:29:51.520
close to eternity, and I wouldn't dream of saying to you,
1596
01:29:52.380 --> 01:29:56.850
you know what? You know what? They license a vaccine
1597
01:29:56.869 --> 01:29:59.770
given to millions of babies on a trial for five
1598
01:29:59.810 --> 01:30:03.050
days of safety monitoring after injection with 147 kids. I
1599
01:30:03.069 --> 01:30:07.229
wouldn't dream of it. You'd be like, that's crazy. That's nuts.
1600
01:30:07.250 --> 01:30:10.609
That is 100% false. Impossible. Impossible. Yeah, I would say
1601
01:30:10.649 --> 01:30:15.170
that is just nuts. Again, anybody you can do, you
1602
01:30:15.189 --> 01:30:17.770
can do this at home. Kids go to Google, search
1603
01:30:17.949 --> 01:30:21.050
FDA licensed vaccines, go to, go to pick it up
1604
01:30:21.170 --> 01:30:22.489
or just pick up the book and go to the
1605
01:30:22.550 --> 01:30:23.750
link to the FDA website.
1606
01:30:23.909 --> 01:30:26.399
I did this just to, I mean, of course I'm
1607
01:30:26.420 --> 01:30:28.539
going to check and see what your site is. You've
1608
01:30:28.579 --> 01:30:31.260
got 30, I think it was 30 pages here at
1609
01:30:31.659 --> 01:30:33.439
the back of the book. Cause I was, I, you know,
1610
01:30:33.479 --> 01:30:35.100
you always, when you get a new book, you look
1611
01:30:35.159 --> 01:30:37.300
and see how many pages that are and what's the ending.
1612
01:30:37.359 --> 01:30:39.500
And I didn't read the ending, but I'm saying, what
1613
01:30:39.539 --> 01:30:41.279
do you got cited back here? I always look for
1614
01:30:41.300 --> 01:30:44.460
stuff like that on my internet. 150 or so citations. Yeah.
1615
01:30:44.739 --> 01:30:47.270
I looked these up. I mean, it's just clear as day.
1616
01:30:47.590 --> 01:30:49.510
It's just about taking the time to look at them,
1617
01:30:50.069 --> 01:30:51.069
which people don't want to do.
1618
01:30:51.289 --> 01:30:54.489
They're all sitting there. I mean, you literally listed everything,
1619
01:30:54.649 --> 01:30:56.010
every chapter. It's all sitting here.
1620
01:30:56.050 --> 01:30:58.369
So I was going back and going, this shit can't
1621
01:30:58.409 --> 01:30:59.170
be real right here.
1622
01:30:59.189 --> 01:31:00.270
And then I went and looked it up, and I
1623
01:31:00.289 --> 01:31:01.789
was like, holy shit.
1624
01:31:01.970 --> 01:31:02.189
Yeah.
1625
01:31:02.409 --> 01:31:06.119
It's sitting right there. Yeah. I wouldn't believe it unless
1626
01:31:06.439 --> 01:31:09.600
I saw it myself, somebody told me. Because it's unbelievable.
1627
01:31:10.380 --> 01:31:14.079
I stay pretty even keel at this point in my
1628
01:31:14.140 --> 01:31:16.079
life to where I don't let things affect me. And
1629
01:31:16.119 --> 01:31:18.800
I always say the one thing that just aggravates me
1630
01:31:18.840 --> 01:31:22.739
more than anything is an insult of intelligence. And this
1631
01:31:22.779 --> 01:31:25.810
stuff is just sitting right out there. It's just sitting
1632
01:31:25.850 --> 01:31:27.710
right in front of your face as if to like
1633
01:31:27.750 --> 01:31:30.750
a big middle finger to everybody like, well, it's too bad.
1634
01:31:32.569 --> 01:31:37.100
It's, you know... You know, it's why sometimes some folks
1635
01:31:37.119 --> 01:31:40.220
will be like, well, they'll come and want to talk about,
1636
01:31:40.880 --> 01:31:42.939
you know, we got to make public X issue. And
1637
01:31:42.979 --> 01:31:46.739
I say, well, about vaccines. First of all, that sounds speculative.
1638
01:31:46.779 --> 01:31:48.020
And I go, why do you got to go into
1639
01:31:48.039 --> 01:31:51.090
the realm of speculation on vaccines? I said, first of all,
1640
01:31:51.130 --> 01:31:54.310
people are already skeptical about anything you say about vaccines.
1641
01:31:56.029 --> 01:31:58.270
I'm like, you don't need to go there. I said,
1642
01:31:59.029 --> 01:32:00.850
All you need to do to show the problem of
1643
01:32:00.890 --> 01:32:03.090
vaccines for the most part is just go to the
1644
01:32:03.109 --> 01:32:07.029
FDA website, go to the CDC website and actually read it.
1645
01:32:08.279 --> 01:32:13.640
Actually read what's there versus just reading the conclusory statements.
1646
01:32:14.699 --> 01:32:17.000
Never just trust the conclusion statement of vaccines. In fact,
1647
01:32:17.079 --> 01:32:20.500
I will say don't trust any conclusion statement of vaccines.
1648
01:32:20.539 --> 01:32:23.659
In fact, don't even trust me. Okay. Look at all
1649
01:32:23.689 --> 01:32:27.180
the sources. any sentence for anybody reading the book, as
1650
01:32:27.199 --> 01:32:28.640
it sounds like you did too. And I tell this
1651
01:32:28.659 --> 01:32:31.470
to everybody, you read something and you don't believe it.
1652
01:32:31.720 --> 01:32:36.100
Please don't just keep going. Go to the footnote, go
1653
01:32:36.119 --> 01:32:38.300
pull up the document and look at it. Yeah. Go
1654
01:32:38.319 --> 01:32:41.239
to the CDC data source or the FDA or whatever
1655
01:32:41.279 --> 01:32:43.319
it is and take a look yourself. Yeah. It's easy.
1656
01:32:43.380 --> 01:32:45.500
I mean, I did that. I said, there it is.
1657
01:32:45.859 --> 01:32:49.060
And then it was like, wow. Okay. All right. Well,
1658
01:32:49.119 --> 01:32:51.399
you just throw it out in front of my face. Okay, fine. Yeah.
1659
01:32:51.859 --> 01:32:57.250
So, I question then on these, and he mentioned this,
1660
01:32:57.909 --> 01:33:00.680
it started up with like three vaccines, what did you say,
1661
01:33:00.680 --> 01:33:01.659
29 now for kids?
1662
01:33:01.680 --> 01:33:04.420
Well, no, I just meant up until the first year
1663
01:33:04.460 --> 01:33:07.520
of life. Now, I'm not talking all 18 years. Right.
1664
01:33:07.619 --> 01:33:10.100
We're just talking initially, from three to 29. So it's
1665
01:33:10.840 --> 01:33:18.350
three injections. So a child in 1986, following the CDC schedule,
1666
01:33:18.369 --> 01:33:21.409
got three injections. A child today will get 29 injections
1667
01:33:21.470 --> 01:33:22.869
if they follow the CDC schedule.
1668
01:33:22.989 --> 01:33:25.569
Is that for 29 different conditions or is that like
1669
01:33:25.750 --> 01:33:27.649
multitudes for like, say, measles?
1670
01:33:27.710 --> 01:33:30.609
Is it like three for measles? So it would be
1671
01:33:31.310 --> 01:33:33.989
only one shot of MMR. So it's just one. MMR
1672
01:33:34.029 --> 01:33:36.210
will be one of the 29. That's it. Just one.
1673
01:33:36.289 --> 01:33:38.409
That's measles, mumps, rubella. Rubella.
1674
01:33:38.449 --> 01:33:38.630
Okay.
1675
01:33:38.649 --> 01:33:41.550
All right. You're going to test me. You want to
1676
01:33:41.569 --> 01:33:44.189
see if I can do it? Are you ready? Let's see.
1677
01:33:44.300 --> 01:33:48.399
I could try. So it would be D-Tap, three shots.
1678
01:33:48.819 --> 01:33:51.699
So two months, four months, six months. It would be
1679
01:33:51.720 --> 01:33:54.420
three shots of Hib at two months, four months, six months.
1680
01:33:54.920 --> 01:33:58.279
It would be three shots of Hep B, one at birth,
1681
01:33:58.720 --> 01:34:02.119
one month, six months. It would be three shots of Prevnar,
1682
01:34:02.420 --> 01:34:04.880
which would be at two months, four months, six months.
1683
01:34:05.380 --> 01:34:07.319
It would be three shots of IPV at two months,
1684
01:34:07.399 --> 01:34:14.279
four months, six months. It would be three shots of... Um, uh,
1685
01:34:14.319 --> 01:34:16.880
which one did I say? Uh, let's see. I don't know.
1686
01:34:16.899 --> 01:34:20.220
You're just, Oh, Oh, it'd be a shot of, sorry,
1687
01:34:20.340 --> 01:34:22.859
flu at six months and seven months. If you got
1688
01:34:22.899 --> 01:34:24.800
COVID vaccine, that would be a shot at six months,
1689
01:34:24.819 --> 01:34:28.010
seven months and eight months of three dose series. Um, um,
1690
01:34:28.789 --> 01:34:31.710
in utero to the mother routinely, we get a Tdap vaccine,
1691
01:34:32.189 --> 01:34:35.970
a flu shot, and now also an RSV shot. Um,
1692
01:34:37.390 --> 01:34:42.170
What did I miss? Oh, you get more? Yeah, there's
1693
01:34:42.210 --> 01:34:44.970
a few more. Well, I'll just stop there. The chart's
1694
01:34:45.029 --> 01:34:47.550
in there. You can see it. No, I'm just saying. Yeah.
1695
01:34:48.380 --> 01:34:51.939
I guess then my question would be, well, I have
1696
01:34:52.000 --> 01:34:54.600
two questions, because I don't want to forget one.
1697
01:34:54.920 --> 01:34:56.560
Yep.
1698
01:34:57.439 --> 01:35:00.779
How actually deadly are these things that we're getting vaccinated for?
1699
01:35:01.100 --> 01:35:05.100
What is the actual... reasoning given? Is it because these
1700
01:35:05.140 --> 01:35:06.539
are all going to kill you? And man, if you
1701
01:35:06.560 --> 01:35:08.619
don't do this, you're going to, and you get catch these,
1702
01:35:08.640 --> 01:35:10.390
you're going to kill everybody around you too. Cause I
1703
01:35:10.430 --> 01:35:13.689
can't think of any good reason aside from that is
1704
01:35:13.710 --> 01:35:16.409
you're going to seriously hurt somebody and, and or hurt
1705
01:35:16.430 --> 01:35:17.789
yourself by not taking these.
1706
01:35:18.090 --> 01:35:22.149
And why does it take so many? Uh, well, first
1707
01:35:22.170 --> 01:35:24.010
of all, obviously every one of these products is hundreds
1708
01:35:24.029 --> 01:35:26.949
of millions of billions of dollars, right? Pharmacy companies exist
1709
01:35:26.970 --> 01:35:29.390
to put out products and they put out products to
1710
01:35:29.430 --> 01:35:30.609
make money. I mean, that's what they do.
1711
01:35:30.890 --> 01:35:31.090
Right.
1712
01:35:31.770 --> 01:35:35.310
And when it comes to vaccines, let me put it
1713
01:35:35.350 --> 01:35:37.899
this way for you. You ready? What if I approach you, Dylan,
1714
01:35:37.939 --> 01:35:40.199
and I say, hey, I got a business idea. And
1715
01:35:40.220 --> 01:35:42.779
you said, okay, what is it? I say, listen, we're
1716
01:35:42.800 --> 01:35:45.159
going to sell this product that you injected to people.
1717
01:35:45.239 --> 01:35:48.140
And you said, oh, really? Well, does it hurt anybody? Say,
1718
01:35:48.399 --> 01:35:51.670
don't worry. Don't worry. They can't sue us for that. Well,
1719
01:35:51.710 --> 01:35:53.109
why the heck would anybody take it? And you say,
1720
01:35:53.710 --> 01:35:56.670
don't worry. I'll sell you. Don't worry. The government mandated
1721
01:35:56.710 --> 01:35:59.270
for us. Like, really? Well, won't people just rise up?
1722
01:35:59.270 --> 01:36:01.789
Don't worry. Don't worry. They're also going to promote it
1723
01:36:01.829 --> 01:36:05.489
with billions of dollars of taxpayer money for you. But still,
1724
01:36:05.689 --> 01:36:07.310
what if people still see through all that and don't
1725
01:36:07.340 --> 01:36:09.899
even want to pay for it? Don't worry. The government
1726
01:36:09.960 --> 01:36:12.020
actually has a program to make sure that you get
1727
01:36:12.060 --> 01:36:14.260
paid even if people can't afford the vaccine. It's called
1728
01:36:14.279 --> 01:36:17.279
the Vaccine to Children program. Yeah, the government pays almost
1729
01:36:17.279 --> 01:36:20.550
$ 8 billion now a year to pharma companies to buy
1730
01:36:20.689 --> 01:36:23.970
and give for a vaccine. I'm not kidding. And so
1731
01:36:24.869 --> 01:36:28.590
think about this business model. Okay, you ready? Guarantee market
1732
01:36:28.649 --> 01:36:32.760
is mandated. no liability because you have immunity, free marketing
1733
01:36:32.779 --> 01:36:36.220
by the federal government, guaranteed payment. Who wouldn't go into
1734
01:36:36.260 --> 01:36:41.380
this business? And I think that's a big component about the,
1735
01:36:41.539 --> 01:36:44.689
you know, the next thing you said. Now, listen, the
1736
01:36:45.149 --> 01:36:50.149
innovation is great. Pharmaceutical companies looking to innovate and create
1737
01:36:50.210 --> 01:36:53.569
products that can help people, I'm all for, okay? The
1738
01:36:53.590 --> 01:36:55.850
problem is they have no economic self-interest as we talk
1739
01:36:55.869 --> 01:36:57.970
about to assure the safety of these products. That has
1740
01:36:58.010 --> 01:37:04.390
created incredible unbelievable moral hazard. And I think subtextually to
1741
01:37:04.430 --> 01:37:08.489
your comment, I think is the question of, well, but
1742
01:37:08.529 --> 01:37:13.659
since the 80s, haven't things gotten better health-wise? No, they
1743
01:37:13.699 --> 01:37:17.779
have not. Have we gotten healthier as a nation since
1744
01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:20.180
we've gone from three to these 29 injections?
1745
01:37:20.579 --> 01:37:20.739
No.
1746
01:37:21.460 --> 01:37:23.680
We have gone from under 10% of kids in the
1747
01:37:23.720 --> 01:37:27.560
early 80s having a chronic health condition to today, over 40%,
1748
01:37:27.560 --> 01:37:31.770
some estimate over 50%. often multiple chronic health conditions. And
1749
01:37:31.810 --> 01:37:37.670
what are they? They're ADHD, they're asthma, they're atopic issues.
1750
01:37:37.869 --> 01:37:41.170
Go down the list. Almost every one of these issues
1751
01:37:41.529 --> 01:37:45.729
are some form of immune system dysregulation, including ADHD and
1752
01:37:45.770 --> 01:37:47.149
some of the other that people don't think of that way.
1753
01:37:47.630 --> 01:37:49.550
That's what the literature shows. It's a form of immune
1754
01:37:49.569 --> 01:37:52.470
system dysregulation. So you might go, wait a second. Okay,
1755
01:37:53.430 --> 01:37:56.329
holy cow. So what is causing the immune system of
1756
01:37:56.369 --> 01:37:59.399
our children to just dysregulate en masse? Over the last
1757
01:37:59.399 --> 01:38:03.640
40 years. Maybe we should start looking at the product
1758
01:38:04.159 --> 01:38:06.800
we give over and over and over again to completely
1759
01:38:06.840 --> 01:38:10.760
healthy babies to do what? To modify their immune system. So,
1760
01:38:11.020 --> 01:38:14.550
you know, the case on whether these vaccines and this
1761
01:38:14.710 --> 01:38:18.550
increased schedule has done more harm than good, you know,
1762
01:38:18.729 --> 01:38:24.060
the weight of the evidence on that score is pretty consistent.
1763
01:38:24.659 --> 01:38:26.850
All the studies out there for the most part, or
1764
01:38:26.890 --> 01:38:28.770
virtually all of them, that are comparing kids with zero
1765
01:38:28.829 --> 01:38:31.890
vaccines to kids with one or more show the kids
1766
01:38:31.930 --> 01:38:35.829
that get vaccines have numerous rates of the chronic health
1767
01:38:35.850 --> 01:38:38.979
conditions I just listed, one or more of them. And
1768
01:38:39.100 --> 01:38:43.020
so what does that mean overall from a public health perspective?
1769
01:38:43.039 --> 01:38:46.640
So to answer your question, is the explosion in the
1770
01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:52.329
schedule geared towards diseases that are, you know, intended to
1771
01:38:52.390 --> 01:38:57.310
prevent death, serious injury, that is their intent. Would millions
1772
01:38:57.470 --> 01:39:00.350
die without these vaccines? Boy, this is the impression they
1773
01:39:00.390 --> 01:39:02.600
give you. Millions would die, okay?
1774
01:39:03.260 --> 01:39:03.489
Right?
1775
01:39:05.140 --> 01:39:08.039
That is just categorically false. That's one of what I
1776
01:39:08.079 --> 01:39:12.020
call the myths. That's one of mythologies around vaccines. Millions
1777
01:39:12.060 --> 01:39:15.319
in America would die without these vaccines. And as you know,
1778
01:39:15.340 --> 01:39:18.149
since you've gone through the book, in chapter seven, I
1779
01:39:18.229 --> 01:39:22.229
actually go through every single disease that you vaccinate. I
1780
01:39:22.270 --> 01:39:25.529
get the CDC data and I say, okay, how many
1781
01:39:25.569 --> 01:39:28.750
people died from that disease in the year before? And
1782
01:39:28.789 --> 01:39:30.909
what was the decrease in mortality up to that point?
1783
01:39:31.949 --> 01:39:35.149
What has happened since? And you can see for yourself,
1784
01:39:35.229 --> 01:39:38.850
we're not talking millions. We're not talking hundreds of thousands. Cumulatively,
1785
01:39:38.899 --> 01:39:41.140
even if you assume the vaccines prevented all those deaths,
1786
01:39:41.899 --> 01:39:44.119
it is a tiny, it's less than 99.9% of that
1787
01:39:44.140 --> 01:39:52.970
millions of lives saved claim. So, you know, in any event,
1788
01:39:53.390 --> 01:40:00.399
from a public health perspective, if the goal is public
1789
01:40:00.420 --> 01:40:03.840
health and not profit, we need to account for the
1790
01:40:03.920 --> 01:40:06.989
entire public health impact of these products. And by the way,
1791
01:40:07.039 --> 01:40:08.899
even if they do do more good than harm, it
1792
01:40:08.920 --> 01:40:10.680
doesn't mean you should mandate them. It doesn't mean anybody
1793
01:40:10.699 --> 01:40:11.199
should be coerced.
1794
01:40:11.300 --> 01:40:14.489
Now, let me ask you this, because you brought it
1795
01:40:14.569 --> 01:40:15.890
up a couple times earlier, and.
1796
01:40:17.600 --> 01:40:20.819
I've always wondered this too. I know a little.
1797
01:40:20.619 --> 01:40:24.720
Bit about it, but in these vaccines, like what is actually,
1798
01:40:24.800 --> 01:40:29.020
are you actually getting the virus injected into your body?
1799
01:40:29.340 --> 01:40:31.920
Like why do people have such bad flu reactions? Why
1800
01:40:31.939 --> 01:40:35.899
do people have bad COVID reactions? Is that virus actually
1801
01:40:35.939 --> 01:40:38.180
within that vaccine when they're putting into your body?
1802
01:40:38.199 --> 01:40:42.550
And if so, what's the theory behind that, how that works? Okay. Okay.
1803
01:40:43.619 --> 01:40:47.609
So I know that the term vaccines is used like
1804
01:40:48.630 --> 01:40:52.329
all these products are the same. Right. But man, vaccines
1805
01:40:52.430 --> 01:40:57.069
vary wildly between different types of vaccines. Okay. So the
1806
01:40:57.140 --> 01:41:00.800
MMR vaccine is an attenuated vaccine, for example. It is
1807
01:41:01.000 --> 01:41:06.600
actually a live measles, mumps, and relic. Those viruses are
1808
01:41:06.659 --> 01:41:09.159
alive in that vial. Okay.
1809
01:41:09.180 --> 01:41:09.260
Okay.
1810
01:41:09.819 --> 01:41:13.520
Along with the growth medium, as we talked about earlier,
1811
01:41:13.560 --> 01:41:16.329
rubella is grown on the cultured cell line of a
1812
01:41:16.329 --> 01:41:20.909
border fetus. Cells are massive compared to viruses, right? So
1813
01:41:20.949 --> 01:41:24.250
when you go and you've now grown the rubella virus
1814
01:41:24.470 --> 01:41:28.949
in that cultural medium, you passage it through these cells,
1815
01:41:29.489 --> 01:41:32.420
and it basically creates a Frankenstein version of the virus.
1816
01:41:33.100 --> 01:41:35.939
You then need to go harvest that virus to get
1817
01:41:35.979 --> 01:41:37.939
it into the vial to inject it into the kid.
1818
01:41:39.149 --> 01:41:41.909
You are not doing that and filtering out to only
1819
01:41:41.949 --> 01:41:42.569
get the virus.
1820
01:41:42.840 --> 01:41:43.060
Right.
1821
01:41:43.189 --> 01:41:45.619
I mean, you could do it. I think every vial
1822
01:41:45.659 --> 01:41:48.279
might cost millions of dollars. So what do you end up?
1823
01:41:48.300 --> 01:41:52.000
You end up with just all of tons of the
1824
01:41:54.550 --> 01:41:58.710
growth medium. In that case, we talked about billions of
1825
01:41:58.789 --> 01:42:03.649
pieces of human DNA from an aborted fetus sultra cell line.
1826
01:42:04.439 --> 01:42:07.119
the cellular debris. So think of all that makes up
1827
01:42:07.159 --> 01:42:10.079
a cell, the ribosomes, the cellular wall, all that stuff.
1828
01:42:10.100 --> 01:42:15.739
You're injecting human components, billions of pieces, into the arm
1829
01:42:15.760 --> 01:42:20.710
of a baby. That is, and so there's a lot
1830
01:42:20.729 --> 01:42:25.050
of complexity with that. Other vaccines, for example, the pertussis vaccine,
1831
01:42:25.069 --> 01:42:28.970
I'll use as an example. Pertussis is a bacteria. The
1832
01:42:29.010 --> 01:42:33.449
vaccine only has, it has about 3,000, technically epitopes, but
1833
01:42:34.590 --> 01:42:38.439
On its surface, right? And the vaccine only contains five
1834
01:42:38.479 --> 01:42:44.779
of them. So the bacteria itself is not in the vial. Right. Right? Now,
1835
01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:49.340
when you inject those five pieces of protein, they're dead.
1836
01:42:50.779 --> 01:42:54.939
Does your immune system have any reaction? No. Right. All right.
1837
01:42:54.960 --> 01:42:56.180
I don't want to get too far into it. I
1838
01:42:56.220 --> 01:42:57.739
don't know. You want me to go down this road?
1839
01:42:57.819 --> 01:42:58.689
I'm just curious.
1840
01:42:58.819 --> 01:43:01.829
Okay. Some of it just doesn't make sense to me
1841
01:43:01.869 --> 01:43:05.289
at times because I wonder... How has this even fallen
1842
01:43:05.329 --> 01:43:08.010
to a vaccine category with what's being put into our
1843
01:43:08.069 --> 01:43:09.470
bodies and what it actually does?
1844
01:43:10.489 --> 01:43:13.729
Well, I mean, listen, vaccines are different things. Like the
1845
01:43:13.760 --> 01:43:17.079
pertussis vaccine I was describing, for example, if I just
1846
01:43:17.140 --> 01:43:19.079
injected those five pieces of pertussis into you, it would
1847
01:43:19.100 --> 01:43:21.880
probably do nothing because they're just pieces of protein, the
1848
01:43:21.920 --> 01:43:23.180
tiny peptides, right?
1849
01:43:23.260 --> 01:43:23.520
Yeah.
1850
01:43:23.840 --> 01:43:25.659
You get kind of garbage like that in your bowel
1851
01:43:25.689 --> 01:43:27.430
at the time. It gets cleared out. So what do
1852
01:43:27.449 --> 01:43:29.109
they put in the vial? They put something called an
1853
01:43:29.130 --> 01:43:32.279
aluminum adjuvant. Now, it's not like ionic aluminum, like the
1854
01:43:32.319 --> 01:43:36.279
table of elements, right? If you ingest it, it's easily disposable. It's,
1855
01:43:36.560 --> 01:43:40.180
on the micro scale, massive. Like, imagine if this cup
1856
01:43:40.239 --> 01:43:43.960
was a piece of ionic aluminum. Aluminum, imagine it would
1857
01:43:43.979 --> 01:43:47.060
be like the size of this whole city, right? Now,
1858
01:43:48.479 --> 01:43:52.119
to have an immune reaction, you need to have cellular death.
1859
01:43:52.739 --> 01:43:55.789
Cells need to die. Right, of course. So how do
1860
01:43:55.810 --> 01:43:59.390
you make cells die at the injection site, okay? These
1861
01:43:59.430 --> 01:44:01.670
aluminum adjuvants, think of aluminum in a can. Why do
1862
01:44:02.390 --> 01:44:05.729
aluminums in cans, the food in there lasts forever? Because
1863
01:44:05.770 --> 01:44:09.029
aluminum is toxic to life. Human beings for the whole
1864
01:44:09.069 --> 01:44:12.590
length of humanity have not been exposed to aluminum. It
1865
01:44:12.649 --> 01:44:16.970
is bound with silica acid in the soil, okay? There
1866
01:44:16.989 --> 01:44:19.010
are lots of metals we're exposed to as human beings,
1867
01:44:19.289 --> 01:44:22.390
and we have developed a biological function for them. Iron
1868
01:44:22.680 --> 01:44:26.579
is a metal. It attaches to oxygen in our red
1869
01:44:26.600 --> 01:44:30.539
blood cells. Magnesium, right? All kinds of metals have a
1870
01:44:30.899 --> 01:44:36.109
biological function in our body. Right. Aluminum? None. None. Because
1871
01:44:36.170 --> 01:44:38.310
it's completely toxic to life.
1872
01:44:38.369 --> 01:44:38.569
Yep.
1873
01:44:38.909 --> 01:44:41.050
Humans were never exposed to it for the whole length
1874
01:44:41.090 --> 01:44:43.590
of human existence until we pulled it out of the
1875
01:44:43.630 --> 01:44:46.270
ground and we separated it from silica acid. That's why
1876
01:44:46.310 --> 01:44:48.979
that can, that food in there will last forever because
1877
01:44:49.000 --> 01:44:52.680
that aluminum lining is killing everything. So when they inject
1878
01:44:52.720 --> 01:44:59.739
those giant aluminum adjuvant particles into your arms, What's it
1879
01:44:59.779 --> 01:45:05.000
causing when that aluminum particles go in? Massive cellular death. Initially,
1880
01:45:05.359 --> 01:45:11.100
what happens? Your blood vessels open up. Neutrophils start pouring out.
1881
01:45:11.159 --> 01:45:14.529
And then you have inflammation. That's what inflammation is. It's
1882
01:45:14.569 --> 01:45:18.189
your immune system causing... It's because your blood vessels are
1883
01:45:18.250 --> 01:45:23.489
expanding and having these immune cells pour out of them, basically. Okay?
1884
01:45:24.029 --> 01:45:28.260
And then what happens is this. Macrophages, which are... They're
1885
01:45:28.270 --> 01:45:32.399
called garbage collectors, but they're also very important immune-type cells,
1886
01:45:32.560 --> 01:45:37.520
dendritic cells, whatever. They gobble up these aluminum adjuvants.
1887
01:45:37.600 --> 01:45:37.800
Why?
1888
01:45:37.819 --> 01:45:44.439
Because the aluminum adjuvants are bound to the pertussis antigens
1889
01:45:44.560 --> 01:45:50.260
that you're trying to create immunity for. Okay? The macrophages
1890
01:45:50.279 --> 01:45:52.279
then go to all your lymph nodes. They find the
1891
01:45:52.359 --> 01:45:55.640
correlate naive B cell, and they create antibodies for them,
1892
01:45:55.920 --> 01:45:59.579
just to keep it simple. But these aluminum adjuvants are massive. They,
1893
01:45:59.659 --> 01:46:04.149
you can't be excreted. Where do they go? CDC and
1894
01:46:04.279 --> 01:46:09.010
other scientific studies that have injected aluminum adjuvants into animals
1895
01:46:09.470 --> 01:46:11.949
that were, you know, that have fluorescence on them. So
1896
01:46:11.970 --> 01:46:14.109
you inject them in the animal, you then kill the
1897
01:46:14.189 --> 01:46:15.489
animal and then you see where to go to go
1898
01:46:15.529 --> 01:46:16.850
to the brain, to go to the lungs, where to go.
1899
01:46:17.210 --> 01:46:20.140
They find it deposits in the organs throughout the body. Okay.
1900
01:46:20.180 --> 01:46:23.180
And they, what, and what's that doing? It's creating sustained
1901
01:46:23.539 --> 01:46:27.579
immune reaction wherever it's deposited because It's causing cellular death.
1902
01:46:27.680 --> 01:46:31.220
Aluminum adjuvants are not good to have in your brain,
1903
01:46:31.619 --> 01:46:33.699
in your heart, in your lungs, in your liver. So
1904
01:46:34.760 --> 01:46:38.720
that's just one component of a pertussis vaccine. There are
1905
01:46:38.760 --> 01:46:41.979
toxoid vaccines that are different. There's so many different types
1906
01:46:42.010 --> 01:46:43.409
of vaccines. I'm not going to go through more of them.
1907
01:46:43.869 --> 01:46:47.210
I will just say this. Some vaccines stop transmission, like
1908
01:46:47.229 --> 01:46:51.170
measles vaccine. Most don't, like pertussis vaccine, like tetanus vaccine,
1909
01:46:51.250 --> 01:46:54.890
so many others. Some vaccines work like this. Some are live.
1910
01:46:54.930 --> 01:46:57.779
Some are not live. The only common thing I would
1911
01:46:57.840 --> 01:47:02.479
say about a vaccine, my definition of vaccine, is it's
1912
01:47:02.560 --> 01:47:08.260
a product that causes or is anticipated to cause so
1913
01:47:08.300 --> 01:47:13.899
much harm that it has to have federal government immunity
1914
01:47:14.239 --> 01:47:19.319
to prevent people from suing them for the harms they
1915
01:47:19.359 --> 01:47:21.970
caused that the company could have prevented by making the
1916
01:47:21.979 --> 01:47:24.979
product safer to me. That is the definition of vaccine
1917
01:47:25.000 --> 01:47:28.960
because that is the only commonality between all the vaccines, mRNA,
1918
01:47:29.260 --> 01:47:33.630
recombinant DNA, tox, you name it. That's the commonality. Yeah.
1919
01:47:34.489 --> 01:47:36.770
And that's why I asked you what was in it
1920
01:47:36.850 --> 01:47:39.569
so that you could paint a clear picture for everybody
1921
01:47:39.630 --> 01:47:42.880
out there listening what's being put into kids, let alone
1922
01:47:43.229 --> 01:47:46.970
me and you as adults, but about a newborn and
1923
01:47:46.989 --> 01:47:50.140
we're putting the stuff in there, causing cellular death, putting
1924
01:47:50.180 --> 01:47:52.199
all of these things throughout their body that have just
1925
01:47:52.500 --> 01:47:55.539
so unnatural. And especially when they're first being born and
1926
01:47:55.680 --> 01:48:00.220
I mean, developed to nothing and you're causing this already
1927
01:48:00.300 --> 01:48:03.140
before any sort of real process has really begun or
1928
01:48:03.180 --> 01:48:06.770
gotten a chance to go, you're causing cellular death and
1929
01:48:07.210 --> 01:48:09.229
injecting aluminum into a kid.
1930
01:48:09.250 --> 01:48:11.090
Yeah. I hope I didn't lose your audience by going
1931
01:48:11.109 --> 01:48:13.729
through how aluminum average events get traveled through the body,
1932
01:48:13.750 --> 01:48:15.619
but you know, we can go through a lot of
1933
01:48:15.640 --> 01:48:18.770
vaccine components, which I will not do. And people think
1934
01:48:18.789 --> 01:48:20.960
of vaccines as, oh, you just, took the virus or
1935
01:48:20.979 --> 01:48:23.260
the bacteria and you just made it a little weaker
1936
01:48:23.340 --> 01:48:26.630
and you just injected the arm. It's not how vaccines work.
1937
01:48:26.930 --> 01:48:29.310
But you're willing to do all of this on something
1938
01:48:29.350 --> 01:48:33.569
that won't even potentially and some even protect you, like
1939
01:48:33.630 --> 01:48:37.250
stop you from passing it on or getting it? From transmission?
1940
01:48:37.270 --> 01:48:39.850
So you're telling me that it's worth it to go
1941
01:48:39.890 --> 01:48:43.109
do all of this to a kid, something that, well,
1942
01:48:43.329 --> 01:48:44.609
you could still transmit it.
1943
01:48:45.489 --> 01:48:48.949
Well, yeah, it means many of them don't prevent. In fact,
1944
01:48:49.029 --> 01:48:52.500
some of them you're more likely to transmit because some
1945
01:48:52.520 --> 01:48:56.939
of them, for example, pertussis vaccine does reduce symptoms of pertussis.
1946
01:48:57.279 --> 01:49:00.140
But you could still transmit it. So, you know, at
1947
01:49:00.180 --> 01:49:04.090
the end of the day, you know, for me, ideologically,
1948
01:49:04.130 --> 01:49:07.270
my work, You want to get a vaccine, get a vaccine.
1949
01:49:07.289 --> 01:49:08.489
You don't want to get a vaccine.
1950
01:49:08.510 --> 01:49:09.090
Do whatever you want.
1951
01:49:09.109 --> 01:49:10.829
You should never be coerced not to get a vaccine.
1952
01:49:11.390 --> 01:49:13.770
That's the important part. And you laid that out.
1953
01:49:13.890 --> 01:49:16.380
And I know that this, I'm going to make this
1954
01:49:16.640 --> 01:49:19.680
very simple so that it's understandable because when you read it,
1955
01:49:19.699 --> 01:49:23.180
when you say it, what you just said, you take
1956
01:49:23.239 --> 01:49:26.100
something and it lowers your symptoms, but you can still
1957
01:49:26.159 --> 01:49:26.449
get it.
1958
01:49:26.510 --> 01:49:31.210
Correct? Right. Okay. So, so like, for example, useless use
1959
01:49:31.250 --> 01:49:32.029
pertussis vaccine.
1960
01:49:32.069 --> 01:49:32.189
Yes.
1961
01:49:32.449 --> 01:49:36.649
Yes. Some of these vaccines will reduce the symptoms you
1962
01:49:36.689 --> 01:49:39.590
might have for a period of time, but they don't
1963
01:49:39.670 --> 01:49:44.180
prevent you from becoming infected with the pathogen and transmitting it, okay?
1964
01:49:44.260 --> 01:49:48.300
So pertussis vaccine, for example, you're injecting it in the arm, okay?
1965
01:49:49.119 --> 01:49:52.640
Where does the pertussis vaccine multiply? In your lungs, in
1966
01:49:52.659 --> 01:49:57.000
your nasopharynx. How do you transmit it? Through your nasopharynx.
1967
01:49:58.079 --> 01:50:02.579
Does the vaccine create mucosal immunity? the type of immunity
1968
01:50:02.619 --> 01:50:06.079
that are on the lining of your lungs, IgA antibodies. No,
1969
01:50:06.140 --> 01:50:09.720
it doesn't. It creates certain type of immunity that can
1970
01:50:09.760 --> 01:50:13.579
reduce symptoms, but it doesn't create immunity, mucosal immunity. This
1971
01:50:13.659 --> 01:50:18.489
is not a contested point, but I've literally litigated this issue, okay?
1972
01:50:19.210 --> 01:50:22.649
And so what does that mean? If you've gotten the
1973
01:50:22.689 --> 01:50:26.649
vaccine and you then, and let's say I haven't, we're
1974
01:50:26.689 --> 01:50:29.770
both infected now with pertussis. You might have less symptoms, okay?
1975
01:50:31.350 --> 01:50:34.090
I might have more symptoms. So if I have more symptoms,
1976
01:50:34.289 --> 01:50:35.210
I might know to stay home.
1977
01:50:35.350 --> 01:50:35.550
Right.
1978
01:50:36.010 --> 01:50:38.479
Stay away from little infants because, by the way, infants
1979
01:50:38.520 --> 01:50:40.260
are the ones, really only ones that can really be
1980
01:50:40.300 --> 01:50:44.489
harmed by this pathogen. So I'm like, oof, I'm not
1981
01:50:44.529 --> 01:50:45.789
feeling good. I'm not going to hold that baby.
1982
01:50:45.890 --> 01:50:46.409
Yeah. You.
1983
01:50:47.369 --> 01:50:50.130
you don't have the symptom less likely. You may not
1984
01:50:50.170 --> 01:50:52.590
even know. You may not even know. You feel great.
1985
01:50:52.649 --> 01:50:54.170
Give me the baby. Right. Give me the baby. I'm
1986
01:50:54.189 --> 01:50:55.229
going to hold the baby. I'm going to kiss the baby.
1987
01:50:55.250 --> 01:50:57.109
I'm going to hug the baby. Yeah. So which one
1988
01:50:57.149 --> 01:50:58.989
is more of a danger to the baby? You or me?
1989
01:50:59.470 --> 01:51:01.449
You're more of a danger to the baby. You who've
1990
01:51:01.479 --> 01:51:03.500
been vaccinated for pertussis are more of a danger to
1991
01:51:03.520 --> 01:51:06.560
the baby than I am. Right. And this, you know,
1992
01:51:07.640 --> 01:51:10.199
this is something actually, I mean, I literally have directly,
1993
01:51:10.800 --> 01:51:16.220
you know, I've litigated this point. So, and, The best
1994
01:51:16.279 --> 01:51:19.159
part about it is anybody listening to this might go, really,
1995
01:51:19.180 --> 01:51:22.119
is that true? Look at the FDA studies and look
1996
01:51:22.140 --> 01:51:25.819
at the studies published by the industry's own experts on
1997
01:51:25.840 --> 01:51:29.100
this point saying what I just said about the lack
1998
01:51:29.119 --> 01:51:31.710
of mucosal immunity and that it has no effect. That's
1999
01:51:31.729 --> 01:51:35.670
what they write. No effect in herd immunity. And in fact,
2000
01:51:35.710 --> 01:51:38.090
it has the opposite effect. There still is just as
2001
01:51:38.149 --> 01:51:43.149
much circulating pertussis bacterium right now as there was decades ago.
2002
01:51:44.529 --> 01:51:48.930
The difference is there might be less cases, so to speak. But,
2003
01:51:49.010 --> 01:51:52.239
you know, it's another example of like, you know, approaching
2004
01:51:52.300 --> 01:51:55.359
public health in a rational way. What are we doing
2005
01:51:55.399 --> 01:51:58.239
giving an adult a pertussis vaccine that really the only
2006
01:51:58.279 --> 01:52:01.760
thing it's going to do is make it potentially more
2007
01:52:01.800 --> 01:52:03.520
like you, you're going to transmit it to an infant.
2008
01:52:04.319 --> 01:52:07.819
And hence, what's the benefit to you? Nothing. And you
2009
01:52:07.859 --> 01:52:11.000
are going to have the potential adverse reactions from that product.
2010
01:52:11.770 --> 01:52:15.760
And we've got so many adult clients who've gotten a
2011
01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:19.680
Tdap vaccine for various reasons that are terrible consequences. We
2012
01:52:19.720 --> 01:52:24.079
have one individual, sadly, who's, I don't want to get
2013
01:52:24.119 --> 01:52:32.539
into medical information, but it's devastating injuries, including paralysis and
2014
01:52:32.560 --> 01:52:37.619
so forth from transverse myelitis, neuropathies, and all kinds of dysautonomias.
2015
01:52:37.649 --> 01:52:41.270
I mean, these are horrible conditions. They destroy your quality
2016
01:52:41.289 --> 01:52:43.600
of life. It's i mean.
2017
01:52:43.380 --> 01:52:46.420
We're we get free choices to drink alcohol smoke cigarettes
2018
01:52:46.439 --> 01:52:48.550
all these things that kill us drive drunk if you
2019
01:52:48.590 --> 01:52:50.369
want i mean you got the opportunity to do all
2020
01:52:50.390 --> 01:52:52.890
this and you can or you can't but you want
2021
01:52:52.909 --> 01:52:55.270
to tell somebody that they have to do this when
2022
01:52:55.310 --> 01:52:58.170
it might not even it could be more harmful than
2023
01:52:58.250 --> 01:53:01.880
good you you i mean like you said the whole
2024
01:53:01.960 --> 01:53:04.680
point is here is that everybody should have the opportunity
2025
01:53:04.720 --> 01:53:05.659
to choose.
2026
01:53:05.739 --> 01:53:09.220
If somebody says to me listen I want that Tdap vaccine.
2027
01:53:09.439 --> 01:53:10.680
I'll say, I'll fight for your right to get it.
2028
01:53:10.939 --> 01:53:13.859
You shouldn't get it. It's America. That's freedom. I think
2029
01:53:13.880 --> 01:53:20.760
you should be able to get it. But my concern
2030
01:53:20.819 --> 01:53:24.439
is that when people have beliefs about these products, rather
2031
01:53:24.479 --> 01:53:29.340
than thinking about them, that results in a kind of
2032
01:53:29.479 --> 01:53:33.340
herd mentality where they start taking away people's rights and
2033
01:53:33.359 --> 01:53:35.810
they don't get a choice. So long as people have choice,
2034
01:53:36.319 --> 01:53:39.529
the day comes where Everybody has a choice. There's no
2035
01:53:39.550 --> 01:53:42.939
more coercion. There's no more mandates. All of that. I'll
2036
01:53:42.960 --> 01:53:45.880
be done. Just like I don't litigate statins. Nobody's trying
2037
01:53:45.899 --> 01:53:47.880
to take away your rights and statins. Yeah. I'll be
2038
01:53:47.899 --> 01:53:49.399
done litigating vaccines. Take it all.
2039
01:53:49.579 --> 01:53:52.659
I like I said, like from the beginning, I just
2040
01:53:52.699 --> 01:53:54.930
want to be an arbiter of truth and explain what
2041
01:53:54.970 --> 01:53:57.390
it is. You do whatever the hell you want. I
2042
01:53:57.449 --> 01:54:00.609
am the most devout. you know, man of God in
2043
01:54:00.649 --> 01:54:02.569
the world. But I'll tell you what, if you want
2044
01:54:02.609 --> 01:54:04.529
to go get an abortion, by all means, you can
2045
01:54:04.560 --> 01:54:06.880
deal with the consequences with God later. I'm not, I
2046
01:54:06.960 --> 01:54:08.899
am not, I am not in charge of you. Go
2047
01:54:08.939 --> 01:54:11.020
do what you want. You can deal with that with
2048
01:54:11.060 --> 01:54:13.079
him later. That's not for me to tell you what
2049
01:54:13.100 --> 01:54:15.220
to do with yourself. We have our own free will
2050
01:54:15.260 --> 01:54:16.319
to do whatever the hell we want.
2051
01:54:16.380 --> 01:54:17.850
That's how we were put here.
2052
01:54:18.449 --> 01:54:20.289
Now, of course, I don't believe in it and I
2053
01:54:20.329 --> 01:54:21.989
don't like it, but I'm also not going to tell
2054
01:54:22.010 --> 01:54:23.569
anybody what they can and can't do with their body.
2055
01:54:23.970 --> 01:54:26.529
The second you start doing that, let's say you get rebellion,
2056
01:54:26.569 --> 01:54:28.189
let's say you get fight, let's say you get division,
2057
01:54:28.210 --> 01:54:29.869
let's say you get all these problems that we have
2058
01:54:29.890 --> 01:54:31.409
that just creates a bigger problem.
2059
01:54:31.869 --> 01:54:36.579
Absolutely, because who's going to decide what's best? Who's going
2060
01:54:36.600 --> 01:54:39.000
to decide if the TDAP is, everybody should get it
2061
01:54:39.020 --> 01:54:42.479
or shouldn't get it? If you say, well, somebody should
2062
01:54:42.520 --> 01:54:45.199
decide that, it always ends up being the government. And
2063
01:54:45.319 --> 01:54:47.460
once they do, it's all for work. That's where you
2064
01:54:47.500 --> 01:54:50.789
go down that dangerous road. Yeah, of coercion, taking away
2065
01:54:50.949 --> 01:54:54.640
your rights, censorship. I want to ask you about something
2066
01:54:54.659 --> 01:54:56.750
that I found pretty, pretty interesting.
2067
01:54:56.909 --> 01:55:01.630
And that was when you started to discuss about the
2068
01:55:02.250 --> 01:55:05.899
measles and the efficacy of the vaccine against the measles
2069
01:55:06.279 --> 01:55:09.529
and what you said. If you go ask anybody, if
2070
01:55:09.550 --> 01:55:11.010
you would have asked me before I read this book,
2071
01:55:11.050 --> 01:55:12.409
I would have answered just like you said.
2072
01:55:12.909 --> 01:55:14.449
Millions would die.
2073
01:55:14.489 --> 01:55:16.829
Not necessarily millions would die, but what stopped it, I
2074
01:55:16.869 --> 01:55:20.250
would tell you, well, it was vaccine. I don't think
2075
01:55:20.310 --> 01:55:22.909
any of that stuff stops millions from dying, and I'm
2076
01:55:22.949 --> 01:55:25.920
not with that. But I would have said it's gone
2077
01:55:25.979 --> 01:55:27.840
because we got the vaccine for it, and that's what
2078
01:55:27.880 --> 01:55:28.319
stopped it.
2079
01:55:28.680 --> 01:55:30.699
Because that's what we've been told.
2080
01:55:31.560 --> 01:55:35.119
Now, you brought to light some pretty sweet data. I'm
2081
01:55:35.140 --> 01:55:37.020
going to just tell you off the top of my head.
2082
01:55:37.039 --> 01:55:38.979
I don't need to look at the book. You said,
2083
01:55:39.000 --> 01:55:42.220
I don't know the exact, I remember it started in 1900,
2084
01:55:42.220 --> 01:55:46.020
and I believe it was 1958 or 63 when they
2085
01:55:46.140 --> 01:55:49.000
actually released the vaccine, or 65.
2086
01:55:48.970 --> 01:55:50.270
1963, first measles vaccine in the United States.
2087
01:55:50.329 --> 01:55:54.189
And you said in here with the data that the
2088
01:55:54.510 --> 01:55:57.210
downhill fall of people that had vaccine, I believe it
2089
01:55:57.229 --> 01:55:59.470
was like, or that didn't have a vaccine, and it
2090
01:55:59.529 --> 01:56:03.069
stopped being around, it was like 98% decline, correct, before
2091
01:56:03.090 --> 01:56:03.970
the vaccine came out?
2092
01:56:04.350 --> 01:56:10.989
The mortality. Right. So- there was over 98% of mortality
2093
01:56:11.029 --> 01:56:17.050
from measles between 1900 and 1963, even late 50s, early 60s,
2094
01:56:17.470 --> 01:56:23.760
with no vaccine. So measles mortality declined by well over 98%,
2095
01:56:23.760 --> 01:56:25.960
no vaccine. And you could say it was nutrition, you
2096
01:56:25.979 --> 01:56:27.420
could say it was clean water, you could say a
2097
01:56:27.460 --> 01:56:29.960
lot of things, but I could tell you categorically one thing,
2098
01:56:30.020 --> 01:56:33.079
what it wasn't. Was the vaccine. Was not the vaccine.
2099
01:56:33.100 --> 01:56:35.770
It did not exist. It did not exist. I've had
2100
01:56:35.789 --> 01:56:37.399
doctors like, struggle with.
2101
01:56:37.460 --> 01:56:40.039
I saw that and got the argument i haven't had
2102
01:56:40.079 --> 01:56:41.260
this happen more than once.
2103
01:56:41.140 --> 01:56:43.689
Where i'm like listen i'm like i'm like look doc
2104
01:56:43.770 --> 01:56:47.630
listen to 1993 there's no vaccine measles mortality to come
2105
01:56:47.670 --> 01:56:50.170
over 98 you know what do you think caused that
2106
01:56:50.630 --> 01:56:54.569
vaccine i'm telling you there was no vaccine it cannot
2107
01:56:54.609 --> 01:56:58.000
be the vaccine uh anyway I've had that happen to me.
2108
01:56:58.119 --> 01:57:00.699
I mean, rare, rare, obviously. No, but it does happen.
2109
01:57:00.779 --> 01:57:04.770
It's happened to me. I hit on those tangents sometimes. Oh, yes.
2110
01:57:04.819 --> 01:57:08.689
Over 98% decline in mortality from measles. And by the
2111
01:57:08.729 --> 01:57:12.189
time you get to the late 50s, early 1960s, you
2112
01:57:12.210 --> 01:57:14.430
have around 400 deaths a year from measles in the
2113
01:57:14.449 --> 01:57:18.850
United States at a time when everybody got measles. Right. Right.
2114
01:57:18.939 --> 01:57:23.380
So that translated into one in 450,000 Americans dying of measles.
2115
01:57:23.819 --> 01:57:26.770
Free death is a tragedy. That is far from what
2116
01:57:27.020 --> 01:57:31.649
you're led to believe about measles. And remember, people die
2117
01:57:32.569 --> 01:57:34.970
when there are not good living conditions from infectious diseases
2118
01:57:35.010 --> 01:57:38.630
of every stripe. Even today, right now, in parts of
2119
01:57:38.649 --> 01:57:43.510
the world where there's no good nutrition, no clean water,
2120
01:57:44.100 --> 01:57:49.050
kids will die. Adults will die. parts of America, even
2121
01:57:49.069 --> 01:57:51.590
the late 50s or early 60s, were like a developing country.
2122
01:57:52.270 --> 01:57:55.659
And so as, you know, there's no reason that measles
2123
01:57:55.680 --> 01:57:58.840
mortality would not have continued to decline, as it did,
2124
01:57:58.899 --> 01:58:02.619
by the way, for scarlet fever and numerous other pathogens
2125
01:58:03.039 --> 01:58:07.210
for which there were attempts to create a vaccine, but
2126
01:58:07.250 --> 01:58:10.279
they failed. Right. I would, you know, if, if, and
2127
01:58:10.380 --> 01:58:12.560
I have no doubt had they created a vaccine for
2128
01:58:12.579 --> 01:58:15.520
many of those pathogens, there'd still be on the schedule today.
2129
01:58:15.539 --> 01:58:17.729
It would say everybody would die if you don't get it.
2130
01:58:18.220 --> 01:58:21.390
But in fact, what happened is they just naturally the path,
2131
01:58:21.430 --> 01:58:25.289
it became less pathogenic as were other improvements in society. Now,
2132
01:58:26.010 --> 01:58:29.479
with that said, even, you know, even if you, hold
2133
01:58:29.520 --> 01:58:32.880
that constant, as I think you're alluding to in the book,
2134
01:58:34.020 --> 01:58:36.380
and you say, okay, well, let's just assume, even though
2135
01:58:36.899 --> 01:58:40.779
population was going way up between 1900 and 19, like
2136
01:58:40.859 --> 01:58:44.439
exploded in 19, and the mortality was going way down, right?
2137
01:58:45.600 --> 01:58:47.659
But let's just assume that you would still remain at
2138
01:58:47.659 --> 01:58:51.100
400 deaths a year. The question is, well, what is
2139
01:58:51.119 --> 01:58:53.770
the overall public health? Is that where the story ends?
2140
01:58:54.329 --> 01:58:59.800
Because the measles vaccine, unlike most vaccines, can prevent transmission
2141
01:58:59.939 --> 01:59:04.239
okay because it's a live attenuated so when you get
2142
01:59:04.279 --> 01:59:07.579
it it does actually create a more robust immunity that
2143
01:59:07.619 --> 01:59:12.390
does prevent transmission and so over time measles has stopped
2144
01:59:12.449 --> 01:59:16.210
circulating right in the united states and hence sure um
2145
01:59:17.449 --> 01:59:19.310
if it's not circulating you can't get measles so you
2146
01:59:19.810 --> 01:59:22.229
wouldn't die of measles if you would have died so
2147
01:59:22.250 --> 01:59:25.920
it would have prevented some deaths how many Would it
2148
01:59:25.939 --> 01:59:27.680
have been like scarlet fever? Would they be like basically
2149
01:59:27.699 --> 01:59:30.060
almost no deaths at this point? Would it have been
2150
01:59:30.079 --> 01:59:32.500
like chickenpox, which by the time there was a vaccine
2151
01:59:32.520 --> 01:59:35.920
in 1985, we were down to an estimated maybe 100
2152
01:59:35.920 --> 01:59:40.149
deaths a year, maybe? I never got that one.
2153
01:59:40.250 --> 01:59:40.489
Yeah.
2154
01:59:40.750 --> 01:59:42.590
I never got that vaccine. The chickenpox.
2155
01:59:42.689 --> 01:59:42.829
No.
2156
01:59:42.930 --> 01:59:48.670
Well, I mean, it was released in 1995. So everybody who's,
2157
01:59:48.789 --> 01:59:52.380
you know, at least my age, I'll say, we all
2158
01:59:52.399 --> 01:59:53.140
had chickenpox.
2159
01:59:53.159 --> 01:59:53.279
I did.
2160
01:59:53.909 --> 01:59:56.819
I never got that. You never got chicken pox? Mm-mm. Ever? Well,
2161
01:59:56.840 --> 02:00:00.000
you know, you can have chicken pox subclinically. So you
2162
02:00:00.020 --> 02:00:02.899
could have had it and you just didn't have the pox.
2163
02:00:03.539 --> 02:00:04.819
So the only way for you to really know is
2164
02:00:04.859 --> 02:00:06.810
for you to get a titer test. It's possible you've
2165
02:00:06.850 --> 02:00:08.430
had it, but most likely, by the way, you did
2166
02:00:08.449 --> 02:00:11.449
have it. You just didn't have symptoms. Right. There's around
2167
02:00:11.470 --> 02:00:13.829
a million people that had it. You probably did. It'd
2168
02:00:13.850 --> 02:00:17.189
be very, very unlikely.
2169
02:00:17.250 --> 02:00:17.529
Yeah.
2170
02:00:17.649 --> 02:00:19.739
If you did not have chicken pox, you just didn't
2171
02:00:19.800 --> 02:00:22.239
have the symptoms, which is not uncommon, by the way,
2172
02:00:22.279 --> 02:00:27.130
even measles. Mm-mm. You know, there's probably most people that
2173
02:00:27.170 --> 02:00:31.649
had measles did not have visible signs based on what
2174
02:00:31.689 --> 02:00:34.869
the historical data looks like. Right. But as you know,
2175
02:00:34.909 --> 02:00:37.800
as I describe in the book, well, okay, so maybe
2176
02:00:37.810 --> 02:00:41.420
we saved some lives from measles, but okay, does the
2177
02:00:41.439 --> 02:00:43.199
story end there? No, because we have to look at
2178
02:00:43.239 --> 02:00:46.880
the total public health benefit. And what studies have found
2179
02:00:47.420 --> 02:00:51.500
is that those that have had measles have far less deaths,
2180
02:00:51.520 --> 02:00:56.250
statistically significant, from cardiovascular disease, and from cancers. That was
2181
02:00:56.369 --> 02:00:58.449
one of the things that I read. That's what the
2182
02:00:58.489 --> 02:00:59.050
study showed.
2183
02:00:59.069 --> 02:00:59.350
Yeah.
2184
02:00:59.470 --> 02:01:03.010
So remember we talked about the difference between retrospective and prospective.
2185
02:01:03.550 --> 02:01:08.170
Japan did a prospective study of over 100,000 people in
2186
02:01:08.189 --> 02:01:11.039
Japan for 22 years. And one of the things they
2187
02:01:11.079 --> 02:01:13.960
looked at was they looked at those that had mumps,
2188
02:01:14.659 --> 02:01:18.699
measles and mumps, and how many after 20 years were
2189
02:01:18.739 --> 02:01:23.439
still alive, how many died from cardiovascular issues. those that
2190
02:01:23.460 --> 02:01:28.659
had measles and mumps had a 20% statistically significant reduction
2191
02:01:29.979 --> 02:01:33.619
in deaths from cardiovascular disease. That's wild. Think about that. Yeah.
2192
02:01:34.470 --> 02:01:37.149
That kills 800,000 Americans a year today.
2193
02:01:37.210 --> 02:01:37.529
Yeah.
2194
02:01:38.470 --> 02:01:41.869
If that statistic is true, and that's the only study,
2195
02:01:41.909 --> 02:01:44.630
by the way, there's no study that contradicts it. So
2196
02:01:44.649 --> 02:01:48.039
that's the data. That's the science. There it is. If
2197
02:01:48.100 --> 02:01:54.189
that's it, I mean, That's 160,000 lives. I was going
2198
02:01:54.229 --> 02:01:57.810
to say. Now let's, let's put this in scientific so
2199
02:01:57.850 --> 02:02:00.069
we can equate it. A child dying and an adult
2200
02:02:00.090 --> 02:02:04.090
dying different life years, but still, even if it's 1%, 1%,
2201
02:02:04.090 --> 02:02:10.060
you could have had a reduction in, in cardiovascular disease, right?
2202
02:02:10.159 --> 02:02:13.399
From having measles and mumps out there. That's still where
2203
02:02:13.420 --> 02:02:16.340
you would be completely upside down in your public health benefit. Okay.
2204
02:02:16.380 --> 02:02:20.880
Even within life years. Moreover, The cancer studies, now these
2205
02:02:20.920 --> 02:02:24.920
are smaller, they're retrospective, but they're by major institutions. University
2206
02:02:24.939 --> 02:02:30.369
of Vancouver, I believe, University of Lyon, like cancer institutes
2207
02:02:30.590 --> 02:02:32.270
have done these studies where they've looked at people that
2208
02:02:32.310 --> 02:02:37.430
had measles, those that haven't. Those that had measles, statistically significant,
2209
02:02:37.430 --> 02:02:43.029
50% reduction in ovarian cancer. Really? 50%. As well as
2210
02:02:43.050 --> 02:02:45.989
non-Hodgkin's and Hodgkin's lymphoma, 66, 166% reduction.
2211
02:02:46.029 --> 02:02:46.100
Wow.
2212
02:02:46.100 --> 02:02:52.079
20,000 people die here in America of those two types
2213
02:02:52.100 --> 02:02:55.779
of lymphomas, many of them kids. If having measles in moms,
2214
02:02:56.020 --> 02:03:00.109
having measles, excuse me, would have prevented a fraction of them, again,
2215
02:03:00.149 --> 02:03:03.149
you are upside down on your public health benefit. Now, look,
2216
02:03:03.170 --> 02:03:06.109
that's just what the studies show. People might get mad
2217
02:03:06.289 --> 02:03:09.569
at that data because they feel like they're, I'm attacking vaccines,
2218
02:03:09.609 --> 02:03:12.199
but I'm not. I'm just saying what the studies say.
2219
02:03:12.840 --> 02:03:16.000
You can't be attacking. And here's the thing. That's just
2220
02:03:16.039 --> 02:03:19.310
what they show. Right. And so, you know, as I
2221
02:03:19.390 --> 02:03:23.449
argue in the book, there could be a reason that measles,
2222
02:03:23.670 --> 02:03:27.029
unlike many pathogens over the ages, right, they came, the black,
2223
02:03:27.170 --> 02:03:31.729
and they went. Measles may be stuck around, maybe, because
2224
02:03:31.890 --> 02:03:35.149
it conferred a survival advantage. And here we went, and
2225
02:03:35.170 --> 02:03:39.859
we tinkered with nature, we tinkered with God's design, and
2226
02:03:40.319 --> 02:03:44.180
we may have, you know, resulted in eliminating something that
2227
02:03:44.239 --> 02:03:46.840
had a significant public health benefit based on the studies
2228
02:03:46.880 --> 02:03:48.020
and data I just discussed.
2229
02:03:49.460 --> 02:03:52.579
Numbers are not going to lie when it comes to that.
2230
02:03:52.640 --> 02:03:55.590
And I mean, you broke it down. What is, because
2231
02:03:55.619 --> 02:03:57.489
we've said this over and over and it's, what does
2232
02:03:57.569 --> 02:03:59.569
mortality mean when you're looking at a study?
2233
02:03:59.829 --> 02:04:03.189
What does mortality actually mean? So everybody knows. Sorry, death. Right.
2234
02:04:03.510 --> 02:04:05.670
So the higher the mortality, the more death.
2235
02:04:05.970 --> 02:04:06.149
Yep.
2236
02:04:06.630 --> 02:04:08.840
I see. I use mortality because I use it as
2237
02:04:08.859 --> 02:04:12.960
a rate. So like, um, You know, so by the
2238
02:04:13.039 --> 02:04:17.060
time the measles vaccine came around, one in 450,000 Americans
2239
02:04:17.100 --> 02:04:23.220
died a year. That rate was 98% higher or the
2240
02:04:23.260 --> 02:04:26.829
other way around, basically, from 1900. So in 1900, a
2241
02:04:27.090 --> 02:04:32.329
lot of people died of measles, okay? On a population basis,
2242
02:04:32.869 --> 02:04:35.970
the percent of people. So it was like, I mean,
2243
02:04:36.010 --> 02:04:40.699
a lot is strong. I think it was like, Oh,
2244
02:04:40.760 --> 02:04:42.819
don't quote me on this. It's in the book, though.
2245
02:04:42.819 --> 02:04:48.430
12 point something per 100,000 people died. I believe it
2246
02:04:48.510 --> 02:04:50.109
was 12 or 13. 12 or 13. Yeah, it was
2247
02:04:50.189 --> 02:04:53.289
a high number. Per 100,000 people died of measles in
2248
02:04:53.329 --> 02:04:55.930
America in 1900. And we were down to like 0.2%
2249
02:04:55.930 --> 02:04:58.250
of people per 100,000 died of measles by 1963. So
2250
02:04:58.270 --> 02:04:59.750
a massive decline. Yeah. Obviously, even in 1900, 13 out
2251
02:04:59.770 --> 02:05:10.779
of 100,000 people is still... The point is, is that
2252
02:05:11.479 --> 02:05:13.720
just like every other pathogen, except for polio.
2253
02:05:14.100 --> 02:05:14.340
Right.
2254
02:05:14.460 --> 02:05:18.579
The mortality was just precipitously declining before there was a vaccination.
2255
02:05:18.680 --> 02:05:21.619
But what will they tell you? What caused that whole decline?
2256
02:05:22.319 --> 02:05:23.939
Measles vaccine. Measles vaccine.
2257
02:05:24.020 --> 02:05:24.449
Yeah.
2258
02:05:24.789 --> 02:05:25.010
Yeah.
2259
02:05:25.270 --> 02:05:30.050
What about this stage study here? Because we got a
2260
02:05:31.569 --> 02:05:35.729
kind of a confounding piece of data that you had
2261
02:05:35.750 --> 02:05:39.010
here that was talking about something that occurred in 2017.
2262
02:05:39.010 --> 02:05:41.430
And then they countered it with a study that occurred
2263
02:05:41.470 --> 02:05:44.130
in 2014. It just didn't kind of equate to what
2264
02:05:44.170 --> 02:05:48.550
you had here. This was in Chapter 7. Sage Review
2265
02:05:48.609 --> 02:05:52.909
explains a majority of studies indicated a negative effect of DTP.
2266
02:05:53.890 --> 02:06:00.180
And it was basically what was addressed. They didn't address
2267
02:06:00.819 --> 02:06:06.460
a 2017 study and pointed to a 2014 review that had.
2268
02:06:05.479 --> 02:06:09.689
No correlation to what we were even talking about. So which, okay,
2269
02:06:09.710 --> 02:06:15.350
so yeah, what you're referring to is the, so is
2270
02:06:15.390 --> 02:06:19.229
the DTP vaccine. Yeah. Which is the most widely used
2271
02:06:19.270 --> 02:06:21.840
vaccine in the entire world. Yeah. So, you know, my
2272
02:06:22.119 --> 02:06:24.439
first part of chapter seven, I go through all of
2273
02:06:24.500 --> 02:06:27.260
the vaccines used in the United States. And when you
2274
02:06:27.279 --> 02:06:31.060
do that math, you know, it's very easy to end
2275
02:06:31.119 --> 02:06:34.329
up upside down in terms of did they, did the vaccine,
2276
02:06:34.409 --> 02:06:37.829
childhood vaccine schedule, it result in saving more lives or
2277
02:06:38.359 --> 02:06:40.239
Or did it end up killing more people?
2278
02:06:40.319 --> 02:06:40.560
Yeah.
2279
02:06:40.739 --> 02:06:43.039
Based on, if you start looking at the data and
2280
02:06:43.079 --> 02:06:46.319
you start looking at it in an unemotional, detached way.
2281
02:06:48.810 --> 02:06:50.710
So then I say, go on and say, okay, well,
2282
02:06:51.869 --> 02:06:54.710
let's go outside of America and let's look at the world.
2283
02:06:55.369 --> 02:06:59.109
So maybe vaccines, they save more lives globally, put aside
2284
02:06:59.149 --> 02:06:59.869
the United States.
2285
02:06:59.970 --> 02:07:00.210
Sure.
2286
02:07:00.640 --> 02:07:03.260
And so I just, I look at what is the
2287
02:07:03.359 --> 02:07:05.979
most commonly used vaccine in the world. That's the DTP vaccine.
2288
02:07:06.460 --> 02:07:10.640
It's actually the vaccine that the, WHO and UNICEF uses
2289
02:07:10.680 --> 02:07:17.140
the benchmark for how successful vaccine uptake is in a country, okay? Wow. Okay.
2290
02:07:18.460 --> 02:07:23.420
Here's the thing. Peter Abe, who's a world-renowned vaccinologist relied
2291
02:07:23.460 --> 02:07:29.829
upon by the WHO, started vaccination programs in Africa, in
2292
02:07:29.890 --> 02:07:34.729
particular in a country, Guinea-Bissau, okay? And he started it 30,
2293
02:07:34.699 --> 02:07:42.029
40 years ago. And over time, what he apparently thought
2294
02:07:42.069 --> 02:07:46.079
he was seeing, presumably, was that DTP vaccine, when he
2295
02:07:46.140 --> 02:07:49.340
went into communities and he started giving this vaccine, it
2296
02:07:49.659 --> 02:07:53.220
wasn't clear to him he was reducing mortality. And so
2297
02:07:53.260 --> 02:07:54.819
he said, let me study this. Let me look at
2298
02:07:54.850 --> 02:07:57.210
the data. So what he did is he went and
2299
02:07:57.229 --> 02:07:59.289
he did a series of studies that compared children that
2300
02:07:59.329 --> 02:08:02.920
got DTP vaccine with those that didn't. And what he
2301
02:08:02.979 --> 02:08:06.699
found was that the kids that got DTP vaccine apparently
2302
02:08:07.239 --> 02:08:10.880
may have died in lesser rates of diphtheria testinus pertussis.
2303
02:08:11.640 --> 02:08:15.159
But in terms of overall mortality, far more kids were
2304
02:08:15.180 --> 02:08:18.500
dying in the group that got DTP than the kids
2305
02:08:18.520 --> 02:08:25.699
that didn't. Brilliant. Yes. So this got to the point
2306
02:08:25.779 --> 02:08:28.189
actually where even the World Health Organization, because they're the
2307
02:08:28.229 --> 02:08:32.529
primary distributor through UNICEF of this product, went and conducted
2308
02:08:33.310 --> 02:08:37.380
a review of the DTP studies. And they wanted to say, well,
2309
02:08:38.140 --> 02:08:40.520
what does the data show on this? Because, ooh, this
2310
02:08:40.539 --> 02:08:43.560
doesn't look good for us. So they published a report
2311
02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:46.470
in 2014, which is what you're referring to. Yeah. And
2312
02:08:46.529 --> 02:08:48.949
what they said in this report was, okay, most of
2313
02:08:48.989 --> 02:08:53.489
the studies that looked at this, yes, they found DTP
2314
02:08:53.550 --> 02:08:57.050
is killing more kids than it might be saving. More
2315
02:08:57.069 --> 02:09:01.289
kids are dying than we're saving with this product. Okay? Right.
2316
02:09:01.729 --> 02:09:04.880
Like we were just talking about with Navy MMR. But
2317
02:09:04.899 --> 02:09:07.800
they said, you know what, though? We're not going to
2318
02:09:07.819 --> 02:09:11.060
rely on that data. Here's why. Here's why. They said,
2319
02:09:11.199 --> 02:09:13.189
first of all, some of the kids got OPV vaccine
2320
02:09:13.649 --> 02:09:16.789
as well. It's confounded, too. They said it's in a
2321
02:09:16.850 --> 02:09:19.390
post-elimination environment is what they're calling it, meaning it was
2322
02:09:19.510 --> 02:09:22.310
after vaccines were long in use. And that kind of
2323
02:09:22.369 --> 02:09:25.149
mucks up the ecology, they said. And the third thing
2324
02:09:25.189 --> 02:09:30.970
they said is, well, those studies weren't truly randomized. So
2325
02:09:31.010 --> 02:09:33.310
what did Peter Abe and his group do in 2017?
2326
02:09:33.289 --> 02:09:36.750
They said, okay, WHO, no problem. We're going to see
2327
02:09:36.789 --> 02:09:40.399
if we can do a study that addresses exactly those issues.
2328
02:09:41.229 --> 02:09:44.550
And they went back and they pulled the data from
2329
02:09:44.590 --> 02:09:48.510
when they first introduced DTP vaccine in Guinea-Bissau all the
2330
02:09:48.550 --> 02:09:50.670
way back, I think it was in the 70s. And
2331
02:09:50.710 --> 02:09:54.550
they said, okay, so we're not in a post-elimination environment.
2332
02:09:54.869 --> 02:10:00.149
We're right at the beginning. A, solve that problem. Second problem,
2333
02:10:00.569 --> 02:10:04.520
we vaccinated based on birthdays, which is a scientifically valid
2334
02:10:04.529 --> 02:10:08.840
way to randomize because people are born randomly. So whether
2335
02:10:08.859 --> 02:10:11.859
you got the vaccine or not, was contingent on your birthday.
2336
02:10:12.760 --> 02:10:17.050
So it was randomized. And they compared kids that got
2337
02:10:17.550 --> 02:10:22.430
only DTP and kids that got no vaccines. So they
2338
02:10:22.470 --> 02:10:25.569
had a zero, meaning they got rid of the OPV issue.
2339
02:10:26.189 --> 02:10:31.279
So just DTP, no vaccine group. And what did that
2340
02:10:31.340 --> 02:10:36.100
study find? The kids that got DTP died at 10
2341
02:10:36.100 --> 02:10:41.000
times the rate of the kids that got no vaccine.
2342
02:10:41.800 --> 02:10:45.800
And that was a statistically significant finding. 10 times rate.
2343
02:10:46.220 --> 02:10:48.640
And now let's go back to our clinical trial discussion, please.
2344
02:10:49.920 --> 02:10:52.659
Because this is a licensed vaccine, can they do a
2345
02:10:52.699 --> 02:10:56.069
clinical trial? Is it ethical? No. Did they ever do
2346
02:10:56.090 --> 02:10:58.170
a placebo-controlled trial of this product?
2347
02:10:58.550 --> 02:10:58.750
No.
2348
02:10:59.649 --> 02:11:02.529
So think about this. They never did a placebo-controlled trial.
2349
02:11:04.250 --> 02:11:06.250
They say it's unethical to do one now. Excuse me.
2350
02:11:08.069 --> 02:11:13.560
So this study represents what is probably the best, as
2351
02:11:13.619 --> 02:11:21.020
I've argued to UNICEF, making a joke, the best available
2352
02:11:21.100 --> 02:11:25.470
data you will probably ever have on whether DTP is
2353
02:11:25.569 --> 02:11:30.510
saving more children than it is killing. I have written
2354
02:11:31.529 --> 02:11:36.149
initially on behalf of ICANN letters to UNICEF about this
2355
02:11:36.229 --> 02:11:42.170
very issue. I said, folks, Here's this 2017 study. You
2356
02:11:42.210 --> 02:11:45.109
are the biggest distributor of DTP vaccine in the world.
2357
02:11:46.850 --> 02:11:50.210
What are you doing? Either stop or give us the
2358
02:11:50.250 --> 02:11:52.810
data to show that it's not doing that. You know
2359
02:11:52.829 --> 02:11:56.260
what they wrote back and said? Here's a 2014 study.
2360
02:11:57.399 --> 02:12:01.500
I wrote him back. I said, hey, I sent you
2361
02:12:02.520 --> 02:12:10.979
the 2017 study specifically designed to address the very issues
2362
02:12:11.520 --> 02:12:16.520
in this 2014 review by the WHO. I'm asking you again,
2363
02:12:18.000 --> 02:12:21.930
give us the data. I'm saying, give us the science.
2364
02:12:22.989 --> 02:12:25.229
What are you basing your decision on that this is
2365
02:12:25.310 --> 02:12:28.909
saving more kids than you're killing? They never wrote back.
2366
02:12:29.329 --> 02:12:31.369
We then wrote to all the member states that use
2367
02:12:31.390 --> 02:12:36.069
DTP to say, hey, look, this is what the data shows.
2368
02:12:36.560 --> 02:12:38.560
If you have data, give it to us. We never
2369
02:12:38.600 --> 02:12:41.380
got more data. And then we finally, we didn't know
2370
02:12:41.399 --> 02:12:43.460
what to do. On behalf of our client, ICANN, we
2371
02:12:43.500 --> 02:12:47.460
actually petitioned the International Criminal Court to ask them to
2372
02:12:48.119 --> 02:12:51.810
indict UNICEF for killing more kids than you're saving. I
2373
02:12:52.100 --> 02:12:53.890
didn't know what else to do. Who do I go
2374
02:12:53.930 --> 02:12:56.850
to for this? So I literally wrote the International Criminal Court,
2375
02:12:57.250 --> 02:12:59.930
a body, by the way, that I have serious issues
2376
02:12:59.970 --> 02:13:06.609
with that is a really problematic institution, okay? And which
2377
02:13:06.670 --> 02:13:10.189
is part of the UN organ, essentially, which is part
2378
02:13:10.250 --> 02:13:14.850
of UNICEF's part. They wrote back and said, they didn't say, hey, no, no,
2379
02:13:14.869 --> 02:13:18.039
you're wrong. They wrote back and said, sorry, this is
2380
02:13:18.079 --> 02:13:20.420
not something that we can really get about. We're not
2381
02:13:20.439 --> 02:13:22.840
going to take jurisdiction over this. Of course they're not. Okay.
2382
02:13:23.279 --> 02:13:26.460
So then we wrote to all the special rapporteurs within
2383
02:13:26.500 --> 02:13:30.189
the UN that are responsible for all the conventions that
2384
02:13:30.229 --> 02:13:33.949
involve saving, protecting children. And they've never even bothered to
2385
02:13:34.010 --> 02:13:39.439
write back. So- I have no place else to turn. Meaning,
2386
02:13:39.500 --> 02:13:42.989
if we're going to make a science, a data-driven decision,
2387
02:13:44.010 --> 02:13:48.829
the data, the best available evidence shows DTP is killing
2388
02:13:48.909 --> 02:13:52.130
far more children than it saves. But yet, nobody cares.
2389
02:13:52.270 --> 02:13:55.500
UNICEF doesn't care. WHO doesn't care. The International Criminal Court
2390
02:13:55.520 --> 02:13:59.659
doesn't care. The UN Special Rapporteurs don't care. Even the
2391
02:14:00.140 --> 02:14:02.899
member countries that use this product apparently don't seem to care.
2392
02:14:03.890 --> 02:14:05.630
And when I say care, I just, let me be
2393
02:14:05.670 --> 02:14:09.310
very clear about that. I'm not talking about emotions. I mean,
2394
02:14:09.789 --> 02:14:12.069
they don't seem to be interested in getting to the
2395
02:14:12.149 --> 02:14:16.210
bottom of this data train because it's now been five years.
2396
02:14:16.750 --> 02:14:19.840
I'm still waiting for the supposed data that shows us better.
2397
02:14:19.899 --> 02:14:24.020
I haven't gotten it. I just don't, I can't comprehend that.
2398
02:14:24.520 --> 02:14:28.319
Nobody, nobody out of all of the things that you
2399
02:14:28.340 --> 02:14:31.800
just said that not one soul said anything or tried
2400
02:14:31.819 --> 02:14:33.819
to give you any sort of anything.
2401
02:14:34.050 --> 02:14:35.829
My favorite part, as I describe in my book, is
2402
02:14:35.869 --> 02:14:38.770
that when I sent this letter to UNICEF, they clearly
2403
02:14:38.810 --> 02:14:42.390
were freaked out because they wrote to the CDC and
2404
02:14:42.430 --> 02:14:45.279
they said, hey, how do we respond to this? UNICEF, right?
2405
02:14:45.460 --> 02:14:48.680
The CDC sends back a draft to them and they're like,
2406
02:14:49.199 --> 02:14:51.760
we're all implicated in this. And it's clear that they
2407
02:14:51.819 --> 02:14:54.979
don't think that the response is strong enough because it's not. Right.
2408
02:14:55.960 --> 02:14:58.020
And the reason I have that is because we sued
2409
02:14:58.039 --> 02:15:00.619
the CDC yesterday. all the time to get their internal
2410
02:15:00.899 --> 02:15:03.460
emails and UNICEF clearly didn't think about that. So I
2411
02:15:03.520 --> 02:15:07.189
have those internal communications and you could see they're freaked out. Yeah.
2412
02:15:08.449 --> 02:15:12.630
Now the right thing to do was do more studies
2413
02:15:12.710 --> 02:15:15.310
on this, but they never did it. They've never done
2414
02:15:15.350 --> 02:15:18.039
a study to truly rule it out. That's the bare minimum.
2415
02:15:18.079 --> 02:15:20.960
At least look into it. That would be what would
2416
02:15:21.000 --> 02:15:23.560
be to do, but, but that's not how this works.
2417
02:15:24.159 --> 02:15:27.439
That's not how this discipline works. It doesn't work like cardiology.
2418
02:15:27.460 --> 02:15:32.699
It doesn't work like other disciplines. Vaccinology, in many ways,
2419
02:15:33.899 --> 02:15:38.579
it's a religion. Well, it's almost unquestionable. Is that how
2420
02:15:38.640 --> 02:15:40.399
it's viewed? It's just it is what it is, and
2421
02:15:40.420 --> 02:15:45.079
that's it? It's a belief. They believe that these products
2422
02:15:45.119 --> 02:15:51.539
save millions more, but the issue is that The WHO
2423
02:15:51.579 --> 02:15:54.699
and UNICEF and FDA and CDC and HHS, they don't
2424
02:15:54.739 --> 02:15:58.239
go out promoting statins. They don't do that. So if
2425
02:15:58.279 --> 02:16:01.159
a statin really causes a problem, you might go back
2426
02:16:01.279 --> 02:16:04.560
on it. They might withdraw the licensure. But every one
2427
02:16:04.579 --> 02:16:06.859
of these agencies, these government, and this is why government
2428
02:16:06.880 --> 02:16:09.840
has gathered business vaccines. They have gone out and bought them,
2429
02:16:10.539 --> 02:16:14.079
promoted them, distributed them, told the world, take them. They're
2430
02:16:14.100 --> 02:16:15.920
going to say more. What are they going to do now?
2431
02:16:16.399 --> 02:16:21.750
They're going to say, oops, sorry. No. WHO. CDC, their
2432
02:16:21.890 --> 02:16:25.010
whole thing is they need legitimacy. If they want the
2433
02:16:25.069 --> 02:16:27.569
world to listen to them, if CDC wants America to
2434
02:16:27.609 --> 02:16:29.989
listen to them, they need to have legitimacy. That's why
2435
02:16:30.029 --> 02:16:34.729
they rarely admit they're wrong. They don't do that. And
2436
02:16:34.889 --> 02:16:38.239
once they've gone out and they've wildly promoted these products,
2437
02:16:38.780 --> 02:16:41.200
are they going to backtrack on it? You see, that's
2438
02:16:41.219 --> 02:16:44.440
just it. You get to that place where you never
2439
02:16:44.479 --> 02:16:45.360
admit you're wrong.
2440
02:16:45.840 --> 02:16:47.659
And you think that that's actually the way it needs
2441
02:16:47.700 --> 02:16:50.760
to be. Like you're playing God when in reality, we
2442
02:16:50.819 --> 02:16:52.940
all know you're full of it. And by you not
2443
02:16:53.000 --> 02:16:55.959
doing it, nobody trusts you. No human has ever not
2444
02:16:56.000 --> 02:16:57.479
been wrong aside from Jesus.
2445
02:16:57.540 --> 02:16:58.260
I mean, you know what I mean?
2446
02:16:58.280 --> 02:17:01.299
Like, so you doing that and putting on that masquerade
2447
02:17:01.319 --> 02:17:03.920
and that facade and then double, triple, quadruple and down,
2448
02:17:04.309 --> 02:17:06.350
you just lose trust and you lose more and you
2449
02:17:06.370 --> 02:17:08.129
lose more. And then you got somebody like you pointing
2450
02:17:08.149 --> 02:17:10.850
out all this data. And now we don't trust anybody.
2451
02:17:11.149 --> 02:17:13.319
And then you wonder why. Right.
2452
02:17:13.360 --> 02:17:16.200
But I will countenance those out there. You don't need
2453
02:17:16.219 --> 02:17:17.739
to go down the rabbit hole and say, I can't
2454
02:17:17.780 --> 02:17:18.520
trust anything.
2455
02:17:18.739 --> 02:17:18.920
No.
2456
02:17:19.020 --> 02:17:22.399
I really think that these products, they live in a
2457
02:17:22.700 --> 02:17:27.000
unique structure. Yeah. And economically, they live in a unique
2458
02:17:27.020 --> 02:17:29.659
structure that we've gone through. And regulatorily, they live in
2459
02:17:29.700 --> 02:17:30.420
a unique structure.
2460
02:17:30.459 --> 02:17:30.760
Yeah.
2461
02:17:30.940 --> 02:17:34.489
And it's just a whole system is messed up when
2462
02:17:34.500 --> 02:17:35.079
it comes to these products.
2463
02:17:35.100 --> 02:17:37.610
Like you're saying, this is the only one where you
2464
02:17:37.629 --> 02:17:40.059
can't question, you can't do anything. Ever since I was
2465
02:17:40.100 --> 02:17:42.389
a kid, I was taught, ask questions, ask questions. The
2466
02:17:42.440 --> 02:17:44.709
best thing you can do is ask questions. That's how
2467
02:17:44.729 --> 02:17:47.889
you learn. And just make sure, you know what I mean?
2468
02:17:47.930 --> 02:17:49.909
If something doesn't feel right, just ask and make sure.
2469
02:17:50.489 --> 02:17:53.350
And if somebody can't answer a simple question without getting angry,
2470
02:17:53.420 --> 02:17:56.360
super emotional, et cetera, I just, I cannot trust a
2471
02:17:56.420 --> 02:17:57.200
word you're saying.
2472
02:17:57.340 --> 02:17:57.500
Yeah.
2473
02:17:57.760 --> 02:18:01.739
It just, if it was something that was a simple
2474
02:18:01.799 --> 02:18:04.500
conversation with a simple answer and there was nothing more
2475
02:18:04.540 --> 02:18:07.079
to it, it would just be a, here's, and maybe
2476
02:18:07.100 --> 02:18:07.819
it's just what you believe.
2477
02:18:07.860 --> 02:18:09.239
It could even be wrong, but it'd still be a
2478
02:18:09.299 --> 02:18:13.920
simple answer. Yeah, I mean, I see this in depositions
2479
02:18:13.959 --> 02:18:19.459
all the time, unfortunately, right? So if you're, the reason
2480
02:18:19.479 --> 02:18:22.219
you know something is because you believe it. Somebody told you. Yeah.
2481
02:18:22.280 --> 02:18:24.600
But you believe it because you think it's a fact. Yes.
2482
02:18:24.780 --> 02:18:27.739
You think it's a fact. And you've said it like
2483
02:18:27.780 --> 02:18:30.100
it's a fact. And you've repeated it like it's a fact.
2484
02:18:30.780 --> 02:18:34.180
Clinical trial's robust. Post-hospital safety robust. It's like a robot. Yeah.
2485
02:18:34.680 --> 02:18:34.860
Right?
2486
02:18:35.159 --> 02:18:37.940
But you've said it. Yeah. And to be fair to, like,
2487
02:18:38.139 --> 02:18:42.420
most doctors... They just think it's true. They repeat it.
2488
02:18:43.370 --> 02:18:46.690
Then when you confront them with it in a deposition
2489
02:18:47.250 --> 02:18:50.670
and you're showing them the evidence, now what can they
2490
02:18:50.709 --> 02:18:52.870
draw on to challenge you? Can they draw on the intellect?
2491
02:18:52.889 --> 02:18:55.329
Can they draw on their knowledge base? They don't have.
2492
02:18:55.889 --> 02:18:57.270
And that's the problem. So what do they draw on?
2493
02:18:57.270 --> 02:18:59.829
They draw on their emotions. They draw on attacking you,
2494
02:19:00.229 --> 02:19:05.590
your character, your person, ad hominem, you know, dehumanize you,
2495
02:19:05.690 --> 02:19:07.549
that kind of stuff. And you see that happening in
2496
02:19:07.590 --> 02:19:10.420
this area. a lot. Did they engage in the doctor's
2497
02:19:10.479 --> 02:19:13.870
outrageous issue about COVID-19 vaccines in a scientific way? No,
2498
02:19:14.430 --> 02:19:17.329
it was character assassination. It was ad hominem. It was
2499
02:19:17.389 --> 02:19:18.370
never about the substance.
2500
02:19:18.409 --> 02:19:21.829
You know, in my kind of area, and like then
2501
02:19:21.950 --> 02:19:25.590
you would call biohacking and ID, that's a whole nother story,
2502
02:19:25.649 --> 02:19:28.989
but let's just look at that perspective. Okay. And it
2503
02:19:29.129 --> 02:19:32.770
is always asking questions and, you know, looking at things
2504
02:19:32.819 --> 02:19:36.020
from multitudes of angles and seeing what works and what doesn't.
2505
02:19:36.120 --> 02:19:38.329
And Some things they come up with, I think, are
2506
02:19:38.389 --> 02:19:40.430
absolutely insane that are a waste.
2507
02:19:40.270 --> 02:19:40.870
Of time and money.
2508
02:19:40.909 --> 02:19:42.350
But some of the stuff makes a whole hell of
2509
02:19:42.389 --> 02:19:45.629
a lot of sense. But it's the ability to share
2510
02:19:45.670 --> 02:19:50.930
these different types of methodologies, naturopathic medicines, things like that,
2511
02:19:50.950 --> 02:19:52.989
that give you an option, that give you an alternative.
2512
02:19:53.010 --> 02:19:54.229
And it makes me trust more.
2513
02:19:54.250 --> 02:19:57.569
I don't fall into the trap of everything that they spew,
2514
02:19:57.629 --> 02:20:02.329
but at least there's conversation and there's perspective that does,
2515
02:20:02.750 --> 02:20:05.549
you know, sometimes makes some merit to me where I'm like, man,
2516
02:20:05.569 --> 02:20:08.489
that shit's crazy. And then I'll look at it and go, well, okay.
2517
02:20:08.709 --> 02:20:11.739
Now maybe, maybe you're just trying to sell me something,
2518
02:20:11.750 --> 02:20:12.399
but maybe not.
2519
02:20:12.879 --> 02:20:14.780
I've drawn a lot of things.
2520
02:20:14.479 --> 02:20:16.780
From some of these conversations where I've sat and I
2521
02:20:16.819 --> 02:20:20.540
thought it was absolutely nuts and might come away thinking
2522
02:20:20.559 --> 02:20:22.899
they're even more nuts, but it was a good conversation.
2523
02:20:23.219 --> 02:20:25.700
There was no stones thrown. There was no argument.
2524
02:20:25.719 --> 02:20:28.799
There was no emotion. It was like, okay, maybe I'll
2525
02:20:28.819 --> 02:20:31.340
try that. And maybe I think you need an insane asylum,
2526
02:20:31.360 --> 02:20:34.500
but at least. Yeah. At least it's.
2527
02:20:34.459 --> 02:20:38.780
Like cordial and there's, there's ideas thrown around. And I
2528
02:20:39.299 --> 02:20:42.520
think that's great. You know, and I think part of
2529
02:20:42.559 --> 02:20:46.129
the problem, what I've said is I get a lot
2530
02:20:46.170 --> 02:20:48.049
of those people in that industry just don't ever go
2531
02:20:48.090 --> 02:20:49.790
to the doctor. Just don't ever take any medicine and
2532
02:20:49.889 --> 02:20:51.409
don't listen to what they say. And I'm like, listen,
2533
02:20:52.069 --> 02:20:54.590
I don't think all of them have like that bad
2534
02:20:55.010 --> 02:20:58.799
heart or bad I think that's how they were trained.
2535
02:20:58.899 --> 02:21:00.680
I think they paid a lot of money to go
2536
02:21:00.719 --> 02:21:01.200
to school.
2537
02:21:01.719 --> 02:21:03.319
And I know this is what they're getting shoved down
2538
02:21:03.360 --> 02:21:07.559
their throat. They believe it. They really, really, truly believe it.
2539
02:21:07.559 --> 02:21:10.520
So be careful about insulting or all of that, but
2540
02:21:10.579 --> 02:21:13.579
just try to show them like what you're telling me.
2541
02:21:14.040 --> 02:21:17.399
I think most medical professionals, I mean, they think that
2542
02:21:17.440 --> 02:21:21.959
they're doing God's work. And when it comes to these products,
2543
02:21:22.360 --> 02:21:23.840
That's part of the problem, and it's part of what
2544
02:21:23.860 --> 02:21:28.530
makes them blind. Yes, is that they just believe the
2545
02:21:28.590 --> 02:21:31.870
mantras about these products. They never really looked under the hood.
2546
02:21:32.350 --> 02:21:37.889
And unless you actually objectively step back and look at
2547
02:21:37.969 --> 02:21:42.500
these products and treat them like products, they can't make
2548
02:21:42.540 --> 02:21:45.379
a good decision, clinical decision for the patient in front
2549
02:21:45.399 --> 02:21:48.120
of them, nor for their community, nor for our country,
2550
02:21:48.139 --> 02:21:51.870
and nor for the world. That all starts with objectivity
2551
02:21:52.370 --> 02:21:55.670
and being realistic about what these products can do, what
2552
02:21:55.709 --> 02:21:58.170
they can't do, what is the actual safety that we
2553
02:21:58.430 --> 02:22:04.969
don't have. You'll never have perfect data. You'll never have
2554
02:22:05.149 --> 02:22:11.250
the perfect, what is the absolute truth. But we have
2555
02:22:11.329 --> 02:22:14.850
to use the data that's available to make the best decisions.
2556
02:22:14.899 --> 02:22:18.790
And they're not doing that. Doesn't doesn't everything change over time?
2557
02:22:18.870 --> 02:22:21.850
I mean, how did we get from VCRs to CD
2558
02:22:21.889 --> 02:22:23.989
players to DVD player technology changes?
2559
02:22:24.090 --> 02:22:29.090
Correct. You don't believe in VCRs. You don't believe in VCRs. Oh,
2560
02:22:29.110 --> 02:22:34.879
my God. You're an anti VCR. That's that's exactly what
2561
02:22:34.920 --> 02:22:35.940
it sounds ridiculous.
2562
02:22:36.000 --> 02:22:36.360
Right.
2563
02:22:36.700 --> 02:22:38.100
That's the way vaccines are approached.
2564
02:22:38.360 --> 02:22:38.479
Right.
2565
02:22:38.500 --> 02:22:41.799
They're just a product. Doesn't science change? Aren't we supposed
2566
02:22:41.819 --> 02:22:46.010
to ask and question it? I mean, there's some things that... Here, watch. Ready?
2567
02:22:46.110 --> 02:22:49.770
Recombinant DNA technology for hepatitis B vaccines right now are
2568
02:22:49.950 --> 02:22:52.629
over 40 years old. Can we really not do it better?
2569
02:22:52.829 --> 02:22:54.459
Is there really not a safer way to do it?
2570
02:22:54.950 --> 02:22:58.920
You say that, you're like, oh, anti-vaxxer, anti-science. You say
2571
02:22:58.950 --> 02:23:01.700
it about VCRs, you're like, oh, innovation. Yeah. What's wrong
2572
02:23:01.739 --> 02:23:02.159
with innovation?
2573
02:23:02.180 --> 02:23:06.020
Calling somebody anti-vaxxer is like a playground argument where it's
2574
02:23:06.120 --> 02:23:08.219
like literally boo-boo head.
2575
02:23:08.280 --> 02:23:10.860
Like, seriously, that's all you can come up with? That's your.
2576
02:23:11.500 --> 02:23:16.459
That is your retort. as opposed to explaining, well, okay,
2577
02:23:16.540 --> 02:23:18.280
why don't you like it? And then you break it
2578
02:23:18.340 --> 02:23:18.940
down like you do.
2579
02:23:19.200 --> 02:23:21.180
The best part is asking what it means and you
2580
02:23:21.200 --> 02:23:23.940
will never hear a clear answer. Do you know Webster's
2581
02:23:23.969 --> 02:23:25.500
what tells you what an anti-vaxxer is?
2582
02:23:26.469 --> 02:23:26.729
No.
2583
02:23:27.030 --> 02:23:29.129
You want to hear it? Yes, please. All right. The
2584
02:23:29.170 --> 02:23:34.209
Webster's dictionary definition of an anti-vaxxer, meaning these editors are
2585
02:23:34.229 --> 02:23:37.170
trying to capture what is the vernacular, what is the
2586
02:23:37.229 --> 02:23:42.420
typical English usage, is somebody who... doesn't want to receive
2587
02:23:42.440 --> 02:23:46.909
or opposes to receive one or more vaccines or mandate
2588
02:23:46.969 --> 02:23:52.030
a vaccine or both. So under the Webster's Dictionary definition,
2589
02:23:52.489 --> 02:23:55.049
more than 50% of Americans don't want a COVID vaccine
2590
02:23:56.309 --> 02:23:58.670
or I think in many years a flu shot and
2591
02:23:58.690 --> 02:24:04.110
they oppose but mandating it as well. On that basis alone,
2592
02:24:04.370 --> 02:24:07.959
most of the country is anti-vaxxers. I take that as
2593
02:24:08.000 --> 02:24:11.620
a reflection of how far those who are truly the zealots,
2594
02:24:12.120 --> 02:24:14.340
the vaccine amen crowd, as I call them in the book,
2595
02:24:14.479 --> 02:24:19.129
have taken this term. They're trying to attack everybody, anybody
2596
02:24:19.170 --> 02:24:21.950
who says any vaccines. They have this point. That term
2597
02:24:21.989 --> 02:24:26.190
now encompasses a majority of Americans. So the next time
2598
02:24:26.250 --> 02:24:30.159
somebody tells somebody you're an anti-vaxxer, if you're out there
2599
02:24:30.659 --> 02:24:33.270
and they call you an anti-vaxxer, Maybe what you should
2600
02:24:33.319 --> 02:24:35.219
say is, first of all, I'm in the majority.
2601
02:24:35.420 --> 02:24:35.840
Right. Okay.
2602
02:24:36.319 --> 02:24:40.840
Second, yes, I do like making an informed decision and thinking,
2603
02:24:41.040 --> 02:24:44.569
not believing about these products. And finally, don't worry that
2604
02:24:44.680 --> 02:24:47.489
you are now in the minority. You who called somebody
2605
02:24:47.510 --> 02:24:51.489
an anti-vaxxer, right? Don't worry. Because we in the majority now,
2606
02:24:51.590 --> 02:24:53.649
the anti-vaxxers, we're not going to take away your rights.
2607
02:24:53.969 --> 02:24:55.309
You can get as many vaccines as you want.
2608
02:24:55.329 --> 02:24:55.770
Okay.
2609
02:24:55.790 --> 02:24:58.700
Because that's America. Just leave us alone too. My argument
2610
02:24:58.739 --> 02:24:59.360
was always, okay.
2611
02:25:00.450 --> 02:25:02.489
So let's just say, for instance, I just didn't like
2612
02:25:02.530 --> 02:25:05.229
the COVID-19 vaccine, but every other one was fine to
2613
02:25:05.250 --> 02:25:06.709
me or just certain ones or whatever.
2614
02:25:06.770 --> 02:25:06.969
Right.
2615
02:25:07.690 --> 02:25:11.229
And somebody, oh, you're anti-vaxxer. I said, OK, well, by
2616
02:25:11.270 --> 02:25:14.370
that logic, then if we went to Baskin Robbins and
2617
02:25:14.409 --> 02:25:16.569
I got my favorite ice cream, man, and I looked
2618
02:25:16.629 --> 02:25:18.399
over at one and I said, I don't like that one.
2619
02:25:18.409 --> 02:25:21.379
That one tastes like shit. Am I anti-ice cream? Because
2620
02:25:21.399 --> 02:25:23.510
I don't like one of the flavors. Am I now
2621
02:25:23.629 --> 02:25:24.690
anti-ice cream?
2622
02:25:24.750 --> 02:25:27.129
You don't believe in ice cream? No, just... You don't
2623
02:25:27.149 --> 02:25:29.149
believe in ice cream? It's rocky road. I just don't
2624
02:25:29.170 --> 02:25:31.149
like it. So I mean, I just, I hate ice cream.
2625
02:25:31.670 --> 02:25:35.680
That's the logic though. It's just, it's anything. It's... It's anything. Well,
2626
02:25:36.260 --> 02:25:41.500
it's the language of religion. Yeah. Right? Language of religion
2627
02:25:41.540 --> 02:25:45.809
is good and bad. You know, anti and this, that
2628
02:25:45.950 --> 02:25:48.229
is the overlay. You people, you hear people all the
2629
02:25:48.270 --> 02:25:51.170
time say, you don't believe in vaccines or I believe
2630
02:25:51.209 --> 02:25:53.209
in vaccine, but you don't hear that I've never heard
2631
02:25:53.250 --> 02:25:55.569
that about virtually anything else. Let me see me. Well,
2632
02:25:55.590 --> 02:26:00.090
I believe in TV. You don't believe in TVs. I don't,
2633
02:26:00.170 --> 02:26:02.920
you know, but here's the thing with ice cream. I
2634
02:26:02.940 --> 02:26:04.899
don't think ice cream is good or bad. You know,
2635
02:26:04.920 --> 02:26:06.180
you can make an argument for why it might be
2636
02:26:06.239 --> 02:26:08.500
healthy or not. Let's use cars. It's easier. Yeah. I
2637
02:26:08.500 --> 02:26:10.479
don't think cars are good or bad. I don't think
2638
02:26:10.520 --> 02:26:11.889
ice cream is good or bad. I'm not pro or
2639
02:26:11.950 --> 02:26:15.190
anti ice cream, not pro or anti cars. I'm certainly
2640
02:26:15.229 --> 02:26:17.229
against my kids having too much ice cream. And I'm
2641
02:26:17.270 --> 02:26:20.250
against my kids driving a car at 150 miles an hour. Right. Right?
2642
02:26:21.069 --> 02:26:24.079
A specific usage. But I'm not for or against. I
2643
02:26:24.090 --> 02:26:26.219
don't think a product is good or bad. But that's
2644
02:26:26.239 --> 02:26:28.840
how they talk about the products. I don't think vaccines
2645
02:26:28.879 --> 02:26:31.459
are good or bad. And I'm not pro or anti-vaccine.
2646
02:26:31.979 --> 02:26:35.819
They're just products. Yeah. That's it. And my hope is that,
2647
02:26:36.000 --> 02:26:37.989
you know, people will start thinking of them that way.
2648
02:26:38.010 --> 02:26:39.270
Because that's the only way we're getting out of this
2649
02:26:39.329 --> 02:26:40.229
mess with these products.
2650
02:26:40.590 --> 02:26:42.969
Mm-hmm. Well, that's just to look at it for what
2651
02:26:42.989 --> 02:26:45.389
it really is, not for what it appears to be
2652
02:26:45.409 --> 02:26:48.409
or what it's being told that it is. When in reality,
2653
02:26:48.870 --> 02:26:51.090
it's just like you said, it's just another product.
2654
02:26:51.579 --> 02:26:56.520
That's all it is. Drugs, pharmaceuticals, those are products, man.
2655
02:26:57.280 --> 02:27:02.600
Candy, all of that, supplements, food, it's a product. And
2656
02:27:02.659 --> 02:27:04.579
I think that that gets lost in the shuffle in
2657
02:27:04.600 --> 02:27:08.370
the equation. This, like you said, has turned into a religion.
2658
02:27:08.430 --> 02:27:11.430
I'd call it a cult-like following, the vaccine crowd. It's
2659
02:27:11.450 --> 02:27:16.270
the same thing, right? It's like they're married to it.
2660
02:27:17.129 --> 02:27:19.370
I really think that some of these people are married
2661
02:27:19.409 --> 02:27:20.530
to this belief system.
2662
02:27:22.250 --> 02:27:24.739
Yeah, I think it is. I think in some ways,
2663
02:27:24.840 --> 02:27:31.420
for some, especially some in the medical community, it is
2664
02:27:31.719 --> 02:27:34.360
what they point to to say we saved humanity again.
2665
02:27:35.170 --> 02:27:38.850
And we had many clients during COVID who didn't want
2666
02:27:38.870 --> 02:27:41.469
to get a vaccine because they said for the following reason.
2667
02:27:41.489 --> 02:27:46.010
I've heard this by a lot of folks. I believe
2668
02:27:46.069 --> 02:27:50.590
that God, I believe Jesus, I believe is what saves. Okay.
2669
02:27:51.670 --> 02:27:53.719
But all I hear is they say the only thing
2670
02:27:53.739 --> 02:27:55.659
that will save us is this vaccine. Well, I don't
2671
02:27:55.680 --> 02:27:58.459
agree with that. I don't agree. This is the only
2672
02:27:58.500 --> 02:28:01.920
thing that will save us. That That is like the
2673
02:28:01.979 --> 02:28:05.520
mark of the beast to me because that's not what
2674
02:28:05.559 --> 02:28:11.040
saves me. My Lord saves me, not these products. And
2675
02:28:11.059 --> 02:28:12.579
when they keep telling me this is the only thing
2676
02:28:12.620 --> 02:28:15.799
that's going to save me, I can't participate in that
2677
02:28:15.840 --> 02:28:20.969
against my religious beliefs. But that is the way that
2678
02:28:21.329 --> 02:28:28.629
they approach it, unfortunately, all too often. It's a unique
2679
02:28:28.649 --> 02:28:29.930
reality when it comes to these products.
2680
02:28:30.879 --> 02:28:33.139
Well, I think that the work that you've done is
2681
02:28:33.280 --> 02:28:37.079
just astounding. I think that your ability to convey this
2682
02:28:37.180 --> 02:28:40.670
message in the way that you do very stoically throughout
2683
02:28:40.709 --> 02:28:41.090
the book.
2684
02:28:41.729 --> 02:28:43.709
I read it. I see the language. There's some things
2685
02:28:43.750 --> 02:28:45.889
that you can see that would rile a.
2686
02:28:45.870 --> 02:28:48.250
Lot of people, but I think you handled it professionally
2687
02:28:48.309 --> 02:28:50.209
and with a lot of class and etiquette in the
2688
02:28:50.229 --> 02:28:52.889
way that you spoke. And it goes for a really
2689
02:28:52.989 --> 02:28:56.350
enticing read because of the delivery and the verbiage and
2690
02:28:56.370 --> 02:28:59.239
the way that you convey the message. And I thoroughly
2691
02:28:59.280 --> 02:29:01.860
appreciate it. I love to read. I just don't have
2692
02:29:01.920 --> 02:29:04.319
the amount of time to do this thing. In like
2693
02:29:04.360 --> 02:29:06.129
a couple of days, I was basically through it. Had
2694
02:29:06.190 --> 02:29:08.209
I not had so many things come up last minute,
2695
02:29:08.270 --> 02:29:10.809
it slowed me down a day. But I mean, within
2696
02:29:10.850 --> 02:29:13.170
a three-hour plane ride each way, I was damn near
2697
02:29:13.190 --> 02:29:15.610
through because I didn't put it down one second.
2698
02:29:15.809 --> 02:29:17.649
And normally I sleep on the plane. That's how good
2699
02:29:17.670 --> 02:29:20.239
it was. So then you forced me to go look
2700
02:29:20.270 --> 02:29:22.819
data up. And so I spent more time and more time.
2701
02:29:23.440 --> 02:29:23.799
But I guess.
2702
02:29:25.110 --> 02:29:27.860
Aside from everything, I think you deserve a big thank
2703
02:29:27.899 --> 02:29:29.979
you and appreciation for the work you do. Because I
2704
02:29:30.020 --> 02:29:33.280
know this had to take so much time, so much effort.
2705
02:29:33.600 --> 02:29:36.329
And you have no choice but to be extremely thorough
2706
02:29:36.389 --> 02:29:41.690
with this. And on a professional level and anything else,
2707
02:29:41.750 --> 02:29:43.829
but on a personal level too, I'm sure that this
2708
02:29:44.090 --> 02:29:46.190
became something so passionate to you.
2709
02:29:46.670 --> 02:29:48.579
Of course, you're going to be thorough with it. So,
2710
02:29:49.159 --> 02:29:52.200
I mean... For you, how long did this take you
2711
02:29:52.239 --> 02:29:52.500
to do?
2712
02:29:52.559 --> 02:29:54.440
What kind of sacrifice do you feel like you had
2713
02:29:54.780 --> 02:29:57.459
to make to do this? And what's your goal here
2714
02:29:57.520 --> 02:30:00.799
moving forward from all of this? Well, the book took
2715
02:30:00.840 --> 02:30:01.659
a long time to write.
2716
02:30:02.700 --> 02:30:05.309
But it wasn't like I needed to research any of
2717
02:30:05.370 --> 02:30:07.750
it from scratch for the most part. I mean, it
2718
02:30:07.809 --> 02:30:10.409
was an accumulation of the work that I've been doing
2719
02:30:10.469 --> 02:30:13.379
for a decade. I mean, I wanted a place to
2720
02:30:13.659 --> 02:30:18.389
encapsulate for, I would say, two major reasons. The one
2721
02:30:18.440 --> 02:30:21.370
not as significant, the second one really important. The first
2722
02:30:21.450 --> 02:30:24.030
one was, I get asked questions all the time about
2723
02:30:24.170 --> 02:30:26.350
all kinds of things with vaccines. And I figured this
2724
02:30:26.370 --> 02:30:29.170
is just an easy way to go, see chapter 10,
2725
02:30:29.170 --> 02:30:31.930
see chapter 7, look at chapter 2. So that just
2726
02:30:31.969 --> 02:30:34.780
makes it easy. Now I've got, I've been doing that
2727
02:30:34.819 --> 02:30:38.479
lately all the time. I'm like, read chapter 11, section 2.
2728
02:30:38.479 --> 02:30:40.139
So that makes life a lot easier.
2729
02:30:40.159 --> 02:30:40.500
Of course.
2730
02:30:40.540 --> 02:30:46.059
So that's first. But second, more substantively, okay? And had
2731
02:30:46.079 --> 02:30:48.360
just my personal make my life easier thing because it
2732
02:30:48.399 --> 02:30:51.670
didn't make my life easier to write it. I bet not. Is,
2733
02:30:53.440 --> 02:30:56.030
you know, if we're going to secure the right and
2734
02:30:56.690 --> 02:30:58.790
the individual civil right to say no to one of
2735
02:30:58.809 --> 02:31:03.209
these medical products, people need to a critical mass of
2736
02:31:03.590 --> 02:31:06.930
folks in this country and other countries. need to start
2737
02:31:07.110 --> 02:31:09.979
thinking and stop believing in these products. And that is
2738
02:31:10.030 --> 02:31:13.159
not to make them go anti or pro or say
2739
02:31:13.180 --> 02:31:15.379
they're bad or they're good. And it's not even to
2740
02:31:15.420 --> 02:31:17.940
make them choose to not vaccinate. It's just to make
2741
02:31:18.000 --> 02:31:23.000
them stop having this belief around it, an emotional reaction.
2742
02:31:23.479 --> 02:31:25.120
To be able to go back to the way things
2743
02:31:25.229 --> 02:31:28.290
should be, we can question, we can discuss, we can
2744
02:31:28.309 --> 02:31:31.690
have debate about these products. Because without that, we're in
2745
02:31:31.709 --> 02:31:33.889
a really bad spot. And I'll tell you why that's
2746
02:31:34.229 --> 02:31:37.950
so important. And I'll use the analogy of gay marriage, okay?
2747
02:31:38.489 --> 02:31:40.450
Gay marriage in this country was never going to be
2748
02:31:41.069 --> 02:31:42.989
found to be a constitutional right by the United States
2749
02:31:43.010 --> 02:31:46.920
Supreme Court in the 1800s or in 1910, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60.
2750
02:31:46.920 --> 02:31:50.059
What changed? What all of a sudden changed that the U.S.
2751
02:31:50.079 --> 02:31:54.200
Supreme Court ruled relatively recently that gay marriage is a
2752
02:31:54.239 --> 02:31:55.840
constitutional right? Did the Constitution change?
2753
02:31:56.120 --> 02:31:56.280
No.
2754
02:31:57.559 --> 02:32:02.420
Cultural cognition changed. The way people in this country viewed
2755
02:32:02.459 --> 02:32:05.760
that issue changed and that filtered into the way that
2756
02:32:06.229 --> 02:32:09.090
the judges viewed it. And that same thing happens with
2757
02:32:09.110 --> 02:32:12.389
the legislative houses in the state level and in Congress
2758
02:32:12.430 --> 02:32:15.190
at the federal level. The way that they, cultural cognition,
2759
02:32:15.239 --> 02:32:19.079
the way that they view what the public is thinking
2760
02:32:19.139 --> 02:32:23.620
on issue affects how they vote. Lobbyists affect how they
2761
02:32:23.639 --> 02:32:26.760
vote too, but that does matter, okay? Especially at the
2762
02:32:26.799 --> 02:32:30.979
state level, which is where most mandates for medicine exist, okay?
2763
02:32:32.549 --> 02:32:36.920
And so, changing how a critical mass and doesn't need
2764
02:32:36.940 --> 02:32:39.379
to be half even but a critical mass of folks
2765
02:32:39.399 --> 02:32:43.350
in this country approach these products right so they start
2766
02:32:43.510 --> 02:32:46.489
thinking and not believing in them if we get enough
2767
02:32:46.549 --> 02:32:51.690
people in that camp that will i'm hoping it will
2768
02:32:51.829 --> 02:32:55.860
tip it so that when the judges have cases for
2769
02:32:55.899 --> 02:32:57.739
them when the legislatures have bills in front of them
2770
02:32:58.579 --> 02:33:02.969
they're going to vote through you know thinking about them,
2771
02:33:03.030 --> 02:33:04.450
and they're not just going to believe in them. And
2772
02:33:04.469 --> 02:33:10.489
I'll give you a real-world example of this, okay? Pre-COVID-19, pre-COVID,
2773
02:33:11.090 --> 02:33:14.149
when I went to court on a vaccine case, I'm
2774
02:33:14.170 --> 02:33:15.909
going to tell you my legal standard to my attorneys
2775
02:33:15.969 --> 02:33:18.659
at my firm. I would say, look, and I'm talking
2776
02:33:18.670 --> 02:33:21.760
about a policy case, not injury stuff. I'm talking about
2777
02:33:21.799 --> 02:33:25.440
lawsuits that we've brought to bring back exemptions and protect
2778
02:33:25.459 --> 02:33:29.579
people's rights who want to say no en masse. My
2779
02:33:29.620 --> 02:33:34.500
legal standard was, look, do not bring me a case
2780
02:33:34.860 --> 02:33:39.559
like that unless I can get before a judge who goes,
2781
02:33:39.639 --> 02:33:42.659
who's thinking in his head or her head, I hate
2782
02:33:42.700 --> 02:33:46.500
you and I hate your client and I hate everything
2783
02:33:46.559 --> 02:33:48.879
about this case and I love vaccines, but I have
2784
02:33:48.920 --> 02:33:49.920
no choice but to rule for you.
2785
02:33:50.200 --> 02:33:50.399
Yeah.
2786
02:33:50.700 --> 02:33:54.340
That's the, that is the standard I had. Okay. Eight,
2787
02:33:54.399 --> 02:33:57.700
nine years ago when I first started this work and
2788
02:33:57.719 --> 02:34:01.280
that was true across the country. I would say that,
2789
02:34:02.229 --> 02:34:06.010
you know, with the help of overstepping by the health authorities,
2790
02:34:06.290 --> 02:34:08.809
by doing silly things like, you've got to wear a
2791
02:34:08.829 --> 02:34:10.290
mask here, but then when you sit down, you don't
2792
02:34:10.309 --> 02:34:12.690
need the mask, blah, blah, blah. People were like, what
2793
02:34:12.790 --> 02:34:18.100
the heck? And the COVID-19 vaccine and the trials really
2794
02:34:18.200 --> 02:34:21.840
created a cognition. If you said vaccines were not safe
2795
02:34:21.899 --> 02:34:24.239
eight years ago to almost anybody, they'd be like, what?
2796
02:34:24.860 --> 02:34:27.379
Now they're like, oh yeah, vaccines can hurt people. That
2797
02:34:27.399 --> 02:34:31.889
has entered the cultural cognition because of COVID-19 vaccines. Most
2798
02:34:31.930 --> 02:34:34.309
people accept that vaccines can hurt people. You couldn't really
2799
02:34:34.350 --> 02:34:36.469
say that eight years ago. It's hard to go back
2800
02:34:36.530 --> 02:34:38.309
that time, but I was litigating this issue. I was
2801
02:34:38.350 --> 02:34:41.719
dealing with this issue back then. You couldn't say to people,
2802
02:34:41.739 --> 02:34:43.959
they don't stop transmission. People get that now from COVID-19
2803
02:34:43.979 --> 02:34:48.500
vaccines and the work around it and so forth. That
2804
02:34:49.079 --> 02:34:51.459
change in cultural recognition has made my job in the
2805
02:34:51.500 --> 02:34:54.420
court system easier. When I went into Mississippi and I
2806
02:34:54.440 --> 02:34:57.260
brought a lawsuit to restore the religious exemption to 400,000
2807
02:34:57.260 --> 02:35:03.319
kids there, I'm sure that mattered. And we got an injunction.
2808
02:35:03.340 --> 02:35:05.299
We restored an exemption there so kids can go to
2809
02:35:05.319 --> 02:35:08.129
school in Mississippi. First time in 30, 40 years who
2810
02:35:08.149 --> 02:35:11.430
didn't have a vaccine. Right. Because their parents didn't agree
2811
02:35:11.450 --> 02:35:15.229
with abortion. Or when we even went to the UC
2812
02:35:15.290 --> 02:35:19.719
system in California and we restored an exemption there for 300,000 kids.
2813
02:35:20.360 --> 02:35:20.559
Right.
2814
02:35:20.719 --> 02:35:23.760
Or we struck down the COVID-19 vaccine mandate in California
2815
02:35:24.120 --> 02:35:27.540
that was trying to be implemented by schools in the state. Right.
2816
02:35:27.559 --> 02:35:29.299
We got that struck down and so forth and going
2817
02:35:29.319 --> 02:35:32.200
down all these different cases or For the Air Force,
2818
02:35:32.360 --> 02:35:34.540
over 10,000 members of the Air Force, we got an
2819
02:35:34.559 --> 02:35:37.700
injunction preventing them from being discharged for refusing COVID-19 vaccine.
2820
02:35:37.899 --> 02:35:43.719
We did it in the Army too. What changed? This
2821
02:35:43.780 --> 02:35:47.120
is no knock on any judge. Each judge has thousands
2822
02:35:47.159 --> 02:35:51.100
of cases. They have to rely on their cultural condition
2823
02:35:51.120 --> 02:35:52.030
to get through their docket.
2824
02:35:52.329 --> 02:35:52.590
Yeah.
2825
02:35:52.989 --> 02:35:56.110
So when that changes, and the only change I'm talking
2826
02:35:56.129 --> 02:35:58.250
about is not that these judges think vaccines are bad.
2827
02:35:58.770 --> 02:36:00.250
It's not what I need. It's not what you need.
2828
02:36:01.000 --> 02:36:03.659
You just need a judge to have enough to go, oh, yeah,
2829
02:36:03.700 --> 02:36:06.299
this is something you're saying it doesn't stop transmission. OK,
2830
02:36:06.319 --> 02:36:08.200
let me look at the data. Like they'll actually look
2831
02:36:08.280 --> 02:36:11.250
at it. Yeah. They'll actually just look at it. Like
2832
02:36:11.409 --> 02:36:14.389
they'll actually it's like not just like a crazy idea
2833
02:36:14.430 --> 02:36:17.299
that pertussis vaccine doesn't stop transmission. They'll actually look at it.
2834
02:36:18.069 --> 02:36:20.530
That is what I'm talking about. The legislators will look
2835
02:36:20.610 --> 02:36:22.959
at it. And so my hope is that, you know,
2836
02:36:23.000 --> 02:36:25.780
if if the more people I read this book. the
2837
02:36:25.819 --> 02:36:28.479
more people will stop believing. They'll think and they'll understand
2838
02:36:28.500 --> 02:36:30.899
that these are products. We got to think about things.
2839
02:36:30.920 --> 02:36:32.520
We got to think about what we're doing with them.
2840
02:36:33.100 --> 02:36:35.319
And I hope is that that will then enter the
2841
02:36:35.360 --> 02:36:41.040
public consciousness. I know a lot of folks in various
2842
02:36:41.559 --> 02:36:45.399
positions of authority that I know have read this book.
2843
02:36:46.159 --> 02:36:49.120
And I'm no doubt that that would have had an impact.
2844
02:36:50.000 --> 02:36:54.739
So anyway, that's why I wrote the book mostly. And
2845
02:36:54.780 --> 02:36:55.920
that is the impact I hope it has.
2846
02:36:56.079 --> 02:36:59.479
You know, on this topic, I think it's going to
2847
02:36:59.540 --> 02:37:03.629
help both sides of the equation here because the people
2848
02:37:03.649 --> 02:37:06.690
that are so pro and don't really know any of this,
2849
02:37:07.270 --> 02:37:09.950
this maybe will open their eyes. But the other side, too,
2850
02:37:09.989 --> 02:37:12.129
that are so negative but don't actually have facts that
2851
02:37:12.170 --> 02:37:14.250
don't really have an argument to stand on, they just
2852
02:37:14.719 --> 02:37:15.559
hate it because they hate it.
2853
02:37:15.620 --> 02:37:18.200
Right, because of what they heard. This is important for them, too.
2854
02:37:18.819 --> 02:37:20.889
Because then they can see the realities of what it
2855
02:37:20.989 --> 02:37:23.450
is and then maybe get a better understanding and lose
2856
02:37:23.510 --> 02:37:26.049
the hate and have a fact. And I think that
2857
02:37:26.170 --> 02:37:28.329
if you look at it from both sides of the perspective,
2858
02:37:28.370 --> 02:37:29.969
this is for everybody because this is just.
2859
02:37:30.139 --> 02:37:30.540
facts.
2860
02:37:30.979 --> 02:37:33.659
This is the stuff we actually need, not the emotion,
2861
02:37:34.219 --> 02:37:36.180
not all of that, all of that back and forth
2862
02:37:36.239 --> 02:37:39.569
and that fighting and infighting. You can't deny what's in
2863
02:37:39.590 --> 02:37:43.409
the reality. And that is what I feel is the
2864
02:37:43.829 --> 02:37:47.909
most important part of this is you are providing real
2865
02:37:48.459 --> 02:37:54.020
evidence that everybody can now use and hopefully bring, I
2866
02:37:54.069 --> 02:37:56.389
don't know, I hate to say like lack of division
2867
02:37:56.430 --> 02:37:59.110
amongst people, but a better understanding and a better discussion.
2868
02:37:59.129 --> 02:38:02.469
Because I think that's the main thing is just start
2869
02:38:02.489 --> 02:38:05.229
the discussion and look at stuff and then progress from there.
2870
02:38:05.309 --> 02:38:06.850
And I think this is one of the keys to
2871
02:38:06.870 --> 02:38:08.610
that because it, you know, I try to stay out
2872
02:38:08.629 --> 02:38:10.829
of this, like I said, and I just kind of
2873
02:38:10.889 --> 02:38:13.969
assumed things. I questioned the COVID vaccine a ton because
2874
02:38:14.010 --> 02:38:16.530
I just knew, I just knew. But the other one's,
2875
02:38:17.780 --> 02:38:19.479
I mean, for me, it's like it is what it is.
2876
02:38:19.819 --> 02:38:21.840
I got no problem with them. I've never looked at it.
2877
02:38:22.620 --> 02:38:26.569
This paints a much clearer picture. And so I just
2878
02:38:26.649 --> 02:38:30.670
hope we've been able to give that and show people
2879
02:38:30.750 --> 02:38:33.030
in this interview and then more people will take the
2880
02:38:33.090 --> 02:38:37.709
time to read it because it's so valuable. It changed
2881
02:38:37.790 --> 02:38:40.799
a lot of things for me and things I'm looking at. And,
2882
02:38:40.829 --> 02:38:45.440
you know, I live and breathe health and the neuroscience
2883
02:38:45.500 --> 02:38:46.139
and everything.
2884
02:38:46.159 --> 02:38:48.340
You know, that's what I do. And these are things
2885
02:38:48.399 --> 02:38:49.920
in here that I wasn't versed.
2886
02:38:49.719 --> 02:38:52.469
On, and you provided versatility to me, and you allowed
2887
02:38:52.510 --> 02:38:54.049
me to convey that to a lot of people.
2888
02:38:54.950 --> 02:39:01.450
And congratulations, by far my longest interview, but with good reason. Yeah. Well,
2889
02:39:01.469 --> 02:39:04.809
you know, on that point of, because I get this
2890
02:39:04.889 --> 02:39:07.940
a lot from folks, they say to me, if vaccines
2891
02:39:07.959 --> 02:39:11.540
had problems, efficacy or safety problems, I'd know it. And
2892
02:39:11.559 --> 02:39:13.459
I always find that such a funny thing for people
2893
02:39:13.479 --> 02:39:17.219
to say, because I'm like, Really? Because they do. They're like,
2894
02:39:17.299 --> 02:39:19.780
I would know vaccines aren't safe. I would know. And
2895
02:39:19.829 --> 02:39:22.450
I'm always like, you know drugs go off the market
2896
02:39:22.469 --> 02:39:23.930
all the time, right? Can you name me a drug
2897
02:39:23.950 --> 02:39:26.450
that's gone off the market? And they almost always can't.
2898
02:39:26.889 --> 02:39:28.530
Or if they can maybe name one, they can't name
2899
02:39:28.569 --> 02:39:30.690
more than one. And what were the injuries it caused?
2900
02:39:31.090 --> 02:39:33.209
And what are the injuries that those drugs caused that
2901
02:39:33.229 --> 02:39:36.670
went off market? They don't know. They don't know. You
2902
02:39:36.709 --> 02:39:39.190
know why they don't know? Because it didn't happen to them.
2903
02:39:39.530 --> 02:39:39.770
Right.
2904
02:39:40.170 --> 02:39:44.020
Why would they know? They wouldn't. They wouldn't know. And
2905
02:39:44.059 --> 02:39:48.110
that's the same thing. Those that have been impacted by
2906
02:39:48.149 --> 02:39:51.069
these products, they know. And I will tell you, there
2907
02:39:51.090 --> 02:39:53.389
is an underbelly. I think that is a big part
2908
02:39:53.409 --> 02:39:57.159
of why Secretary Kennedy has so much support by one
2909
02:39:57.319 --> 02:40:01.059
huge demographic. It's those people who we talked about at
2910
02:40:01.079 --> 02:40:05.459
the beginning who are just marginalized. They suffer insult over
2911
02:40:05.500 --> 02:40:09.329
the injury to their kids that sit there in that underbelly.
2912
02:40:09.770 --> 02:40:13.659
And when we can finally, they can finally just talk
2913
02:40:13.680 --> 02:40:17.500
without fear of reprisal because most of them, it's just families.
2914
02:40:17.600 --> 02:40:20.340
They're just fathers and good fathers and mothers. They're just
2915
02:40:20.360 --> 02:40:23.030
like most parents are, including the ones that vaccinate. Just
2916
02:40:23.069 --> 02:40:27.690
good parents trying to do the right thing. But they
2917
02:40:27.709 --> 02:40:30.469
won't speak publicly about this issue, almost any of them.
2918
02:40:31.110 --> 02:40:34.530
It's very few people who will speak publicly about, negatively
2919
02:40:34.569 --> 02:40:39.110
about vaccines. Often the most vocal are also, can sometimes
2920
02:40:39.170 --> 02:40:42.440
be more rambunctious about it, but there is a giant
2921
02:40:42.479 --> 02:40:45.790
underbelly in When they feel safe and they feel they
2922
02:40:45.829 --> 02:40:47.770
won't be attacked and their job won't be under threat
2923
02:40:48.430 --> 02:40:52.610
and they won't have a social contagion and won't be
2924
02:40:52.649 --> 02:40:55.149
attacked on social media if they speak their truth of
2925
02:40:55.190 --> 02:40:58.090
what happened to them or their children with vaccines, I
2926
02:40:58.110 --> 02:41:01.520
think that dam will break one day. When it breaks,
2927
02:41:02.200 --> 02:41:04.780
you will see the shift. Because look, at the end
2928
02:41:04.819 --> 02:41:12.079
of the day, we should protect kids from infectious disease. Absolutely. 100%.
2929
02:41:12.159 --> 02:41:13.899
But we also need to protect kids who are going
2930
02:41:13.920 --> 02:41:16.159
to be injured by these products. And there are a
2931
02:41:16.329 --> 02:41:21.209
lot of children-inverted products. Again, for those parents or those
2932
02:41:21.290 --> 02:41:24.750
out there who are like, really? You should count yourself lucky.
2933
02:41:25.010 --> 02:41:28.530
It didn't happen to you or your family. But it
2934
02:41:28.590 --> 02:41:32.409
happens way too often, I know, from all the folks
2935
02:41:32.430 --> 02:41:36.719
you represent, unfortunately. So, you know, we can and we
2936
02:41:36.750 --> 02:41:39.639
should protect everybody. And until people start seeing them as products,
2937
02:41:40.040 --> 02:41:43.340
we're not going to get there. The truth can't hide forever.
2938
02:41:43.520 --> 02:41:47.139
That's all I'll say. And I'll leave it at that. Okay. So, um, well,
2939
02:41:47.159 --> 02:41:50.909
why don't you tell everybody, I mean, the book is vaccines. Amen.
2940
02:41:51.260 --> 02:41:54.690
But, um, websites, places to follow you, good places to
2941
02:41:54.729 --> 02:41:56.629
hear you speak anything like that.
2942
02:41:57.450 --> 02:42:00.290
Um, sure. Um, well, you can hear me speak on
2943
02:42:00.309 --> 02:42:03.829
this podcast, your podcast, right? Damn right. Cause that was,
2944
02:42:04.719 --> 02:42:08.059
or just spoke a lot. Um, but, um, the books
2945
02:42:08.100 --> 02:42:10.799
available on Amazon, the social media account I've had for
2946
02:42:10.819 --> 02:42:15.079
the longest is on So Aaron Siri SG is my
2947
02:42:15.120 --> 02:42:18.059
Twitter handle. You know, I also have a sub stack.
2948
02:42:18.860 --> 02:42:23.680
And I think Aaron Siri official.com is where the folks
2949
02:42:23.700 --> 02:42:25.319
who are doing stuff for me, we're going to work
2950
02:42:25.420 --> 02:42:27.120
on building your, put everything.
2951
02:42:27.299 --> 02:42:27.600
Yeah.
2952
02:42:27.680 --> 02:42:29.959
And then, you know, anybody out there who's, you know,
2953
02:42:30.489 --> 02:42:33.290
you know, needs an exemption because that's what happens. Everybody
2954
02:42:33.309 --> 02:42:36.270
contacts me. So don't, if you need an exemption for
2955
02:42:36.309 --> 02:42:41.370
immigration or, or for anything else, or you're vaccinated, instead
2956
02:42:41.389 --> 02:42:45.469
of contacting me directly, which happens a lot, siriallp.com, that's
2957
02:42:45.510 --> 02:42:48.270
my firm's website. Then you can go and submit an
2958
02:42:48.319 --> 02:42:50.280
appropriate form. And if we can help you, obviously we'd
2959
02:42:50.299 --> 02:42:50.979
love to do that.
2960
02:42:51.700 --> 02:42:55.600
But I think that covers it. Thanks for having me
2961
02:42:55.659 --> 02:42:58.579
out here. This was awesome. Like I said, I never
2962
02:42:58.639 --> 02:43:00.780
do interviews this long, but I told you before we came,
2963
02:43:01.319 --> 02:43:03.079
strap in, because I got a feeling this will literally
2964
02:43:03.100 --> 02:43:03.739
go a long time.
2965
02:43:04.319 --> 02:43:07.930
I appreciate... the conversation, all.
2966
02:43:07.819 --> 02:43:09.899
Of the things that we got to spit ball back
2967
02:43:09.959 --> 02:43:12.639
and forth, the read, just all of it, man. I
2968
02:43:12.680 --> 02:43:15.620
appreciate you just inviting me into your home and giving
2969
02:43:15.639 --> 02:43:16.260
me the interview.
2970
02:43:16.659 --> 02:43:19.049
I do. Oh, thank you. This has been great. I
2971
02:43:19.079 --> 02:43:21.569
really enjoyed it. And thank you for reading the book
2972
02:43:21.610 --> 02:43:26.370
and thank you for, you know, being brave about it
2973
02:43:26.469 --> 02:43:30.829
because it's, you know, it's, it's a controversial topic and
2974
02:43:31.500 --> 02:43:34.260
you know, I appreciate that you're willing to step in
2975
02:43:34.319 --> 02:43:37.389
front of it and, and have this discussion and put
2976
02:43:37.409 --> 02:43:38.829
it out there. So thank you.
2977
02:43:40.370 --> 02:43:42.489
I do work for one person and one person only,
2978
02:43:42.530 --> 02:43:44.370
and he'll protect me. So it is what it is.
2979
02:43:44.489 --> 02:43:45.329
What I do, I do.
2980
02:43:45.430 --> 02:43:46.270
I feel is right.
2981
02:43:47.309 --> 02:43:49.909
I don't care about any of that other stuff because
2982
02:43:50.329 --> 02:43:52.370
I got here one way, and I'm certainly not going
2983
02:43:52.389 --> 02:43:53.409
to turn my back on that.
2984
02:43:53.430 --> 02:43:56.950
It's God's work, man. Well, I agree with that philosophy.
2985
02:43:57.000 --> 02:44:00.100
I found that when you're at a fork in a
2986
02:44:00.159 --> 02:44:04.350
crossroad in life, doing the right thing is somehow things
2987
02:44:04.670 --> 02:44:06.610
work out and turn out for the better. I've faced
2988
02:44:06.649 --> 02:44:09.850
those crossroads myself, including in the choice of whether to
2989
02:44:09.889 --> 02:44:11.729
go down the road to do this work. And it
2990
02:44:11.770 --> 02:44:15.190
was a tough choice. It was my wife driving me
2991
02:44:15.989 --> 02:44:17.049
to make the right decision.
2992
02:44:17.069 --> 02:44:24.319
And I'm very thankful I can do this work because
2993
02:44:25.719 --> 02:44:27.020
when I look back on it, I don't think I'll
2994
02:44:27.059 --> 02:44:30.440
ever say, well, I wish I did another case that
2995
02:44:30.479 --> 02:44:31.299
made a million dollars.
2996
02:44:31.790 --> 02:44:34.430
Nobody says that on their deathbed, but I think I will,
2997
02:44:34.670 --> 02:44:39.479
you know, I'll look back and I'm privileged to be
2998
02:44:39.559 --> 02:44:43.139
able to work every day to help protect the rights
2999
02:44:43.180 --> 02:44:47.000
of folks who are truly one of the most disparaged
3000
02:44:47.639 --> 02:44:51.989
and mistreated groups in this country. It's those who make
3001
02:44:52.610 --> 02:44:55.229
the decision to not get this product. And like I said,
3002
02:44:55.250 --> 02:44:57.049
they don't make that decision likely. They don't wake up
3003
02:44:57.129 --> 02:44:57.989
one day and go, hey, I don't want to do
3004
02:44:58.010 --> 02:45:00.719
it today. I want to take a socially ostracizing position.
3005
02:45:00.780 --> 02:45:01.940
I get my kids because they're out of school. Me
3006
02:45:01.989 --> 02:45:03.870
called all kinds of pejoratives, blah, blah, blah. I don't
3007
02:45:03.889 --> 02:45:06.790
do that. Just the folks who make that decision based on,
3008
02:45:06.829 --> 02:45:10.069
you know, some really serious life experience or some knowledge
3009
02:45:10.110 --> 02:45:11.790
they just can't unlearn.
3010
02:45:12.709 --> 02:45:15.959
So. Dude, I always got time for people that are
3011
02:45:16.000 --> 02:45:18.059
doing the right things with the right motives and for
3012
02:45:18.079 --> 02:45:18.860
the right purpose.
3013
02:45:18.920 --> 02:45:24.459
So anytime, man. Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks again. All right, everybody.
3014
02:45:24.479 --> 02:45:28.290
That wraps up probably my most epic episode of all time.
3015
02:45:28.329 --> 02:45:31.770
So Stay tuned for plenty more to come. Dylan Gemelli
3016
02:45:31.889 --> 02:45:33.819
and Aaron Siri signing off.