Attachment Styles & Relationships: Q&A with Dr. Sarah Hensley | E10

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People aren't random. They're incredibly predictable. This is a show
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about the science of human behavior, relationships, emotional healing, and
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the hidden patterns running our lives that most of us
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don't even realize exist. Because once you see the pattern,
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you can finally change it. I'm Dr.
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Sarah Hensley.
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And I'm Raina Butcher.
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You think your life is random.
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It's not. Welcome to the Dr. Sarah Hensley Show.
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Welcome to the Dr. Sarah Hensley Show.
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In this episode, we are going to be discussing questions
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from our audience. So if you guys didn't know, we
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have a free Facebook clients and community group that you
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can join. It's called Dr. Sarah Hensley Clients and Community.
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And we often take questions from those posts. And we
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don't identify you. We're not going to ever identify you.
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And most of the questions are from anonymous sources. they
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are not identified anyway. And so we're going to read
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the questions and then I get to answer them without
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knowing what.
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The questions are.
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No, you have no prior knowledge of these questions. And
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you guys always seem to really like these episodes. So
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we like to do them once a month just because
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it's really the audience's voice.
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Absolutely.
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And that's really what we try to, we try to
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make this all about you guys.
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We want to make it all about you guys.
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And I think that the best way to learn from
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you is really from the questions of your audience. Yes.
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So Raina takes questions that I have not yet answered
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because I try to moderate.
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Yeah.
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We try to moderate the best we can. But there's
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so many questions today. We can't get to all of them.
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So we try to choose from ones that we haven't
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yet answered.
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Yeah. And so I'll start with, of course, everyone's favorite,
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the dismissive avoidant.
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21 years with a dismissive avoidant husband.
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I've only had the language for it the last year
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or so. Last night, we had a major disagreement, and
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he said something that he has said before, and I
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wonder if other partners have heard the same thing time
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and time again. He said, no one has to put
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up with as much crap as I have. No one
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has to listen to this crap for years. I know
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DAs often say the same responses and wondered if anyone
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else had heard this one along with normal responses of
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nothing I ever do is good enough. I just want peace.
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Why are you always starting something, et cetera, et cetera. Note,
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the crap he's referring to is me wanting to discuss further, explain,
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be understood, be validated, and have resolution.
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Textbook, baby. Textbook.
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Okay, so if that description was in the dictionary under
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dismissive avoidant, it would not surprise me. So, yeah, those
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are common things that dismissive avoidants say. So I'm assuming
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that most people would get on there and respond, yeah, honey,
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that is what they say. They are super conflict avoidant.
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Their internal blueprint is you go handle your feelings inside
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of yourself. I'll handle my feelings inside of myself. Even
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if it has to do with the relationship, we'll handle
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them internally and kind of get over it. And then
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our jobs just come together and be peaceful and happy
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and have fun.
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Right.
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And it's just not a healthy blueprint for what intimacy
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should look like. There is going to be conflict. People
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are going to have needs. And they do a really
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good job of suppressing their own needs and meeting their
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own needs on their own, which makes them very self-directed,
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which takes them away from being able to meet their
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partner's needs. So they don't understand why their partner can't
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just meet all of their needs kind of outside of
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the relationship, maybe except for the sexual needs, and then
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why they have to come bring it to them to
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talk about it. It just feels so foreign to them.
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And you have to realize that everybody feels justified in
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their responses in a relationship. When a conflict starts, and
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two people get dysregulated because they don't have skills to
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maintain regulation, their perspective suddenly gets tunnel vision. It's like
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there's no other reality but their reality. That's how people
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feel when they're dysregulated in conflict. And so the dismissive
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avoidant is very much going to feel like you're the troublemaker,
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you're the drama queen, you're starting stuff.
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Look at me.
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I have the moral high ground. I'm the peacekeeper. You
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just want trouble. And so this isn't about your needs
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actually being valid. This is about you being too sensitive
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and being someone who just likes to have drama in
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the relationship. And until one of you guys breaks the
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cycle where you can start holding boundaries around resolution and
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know what those boundaries should look like and communicate them respectfully,
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this is never going to stop. And then what can
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unintentionally happen is that he shuts down, right? You get
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really tired of the disconnect. either he's going to come
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moseying back around acting like everything's fine and you're going
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to let him because you just don't want there to
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be any more disconnection, or you're going to start reconnecting
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in some way, trying to act like everything's fine, avoiding
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the subject so you can have reconnection. Either one of
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those things where you continue to just allow this to
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be avoided teaches him and reinforces his avoidance, teaches him
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that he does not have to have any uncomfortable conversations
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because if he just avoids long enough, you'll just be okay.
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And so that's where your attachment anxiety has overruled your
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actual needs for resolution.
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And this is how resentment builds too.
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And this is the land of resentment.
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It is.
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In 21 years.
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Oh gosh.
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I couldn't do it.
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I couldn't either. There's no way.
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I can't deal with passivity anymore. So I'm just the
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type of person where I want to get it out.
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I'd rather just speak and have the hard conversations, even
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if the truth hurts, instead of just continuously being passive
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and walking on eggshells would be my literal hell.
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Yeah. My hell. I get it. I mean, I lived
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in walking on eggshells for a really long time.
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But when someone's immediate response is to push you away
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because they don't like what you have to say, that.
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Is them being the dictator. Of the relationship.
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It's one thing to say, hey, you know, I feel
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a little bit overwhelmed in this conversation. I need a
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little bit of space. I'll be back in X, Y,
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Z time. When someone takes space in a relationship, their
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job is to always give their partner sort of an
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idea of when they will return.
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Yeah. That's why communication and the way you communicate.
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Is so important.
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So important.
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Okay, next one.
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Hello, Dr.
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Sarah Hensley.
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Is it possible that people with insecure attachment are unconsciously
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only attracted to insecure partners because of their familiarity and
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not based on love? It makes me so sad because
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now that I'm doing the work as an FA and
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knowing that insecure people attract each other, it made me
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realize that maybe my ex-DA only saw me from the
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start consciously or unconsciously as.
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A broken, defective person.
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That he loved me only because of the trauma that
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was familiar between us and not based on who I
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really am and all the other things that define a person.
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This idea that someone secure would not want me anyway,
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that insecure attachments assume that they don't deserve real and
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safe love seems very hurtful. So is this true? The
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more I'm aware of my partners and trauma, the more
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I realize how difficult and likely impossible it would be
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for me to experience real love.
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And this hits me very hard.
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Yeah, that's a really sad question. And there's multiple parts
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to that question. And the first thing I need to
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address is if partner is dismissive avoidant, they're going to
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be seeing themselves as defective, not you as defective. They're
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going to be seeing themselves from a subconscious space as defective.
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And then consciously they'll twist that into we're just not
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compatible because you bring things to the table that feel
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like they shouldn't be in a relationship, which is expectation
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for vulnerability, conflict resolution, all of those types of things.
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That's not in the DEA blueprint. So they're going to
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see themselves as defective. Sometimes consciously they recognize it as
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maybe I just can't give you what you need. Consciously
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they usually turn this into it's a compatibility issue between
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us versus a them defectiveness issue because that's the subconscious wound. Second,
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is it true that insecurely attached people only really attract
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insecurely attached people? That is true based on what we
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know in the science. of like attracting like nervous systems
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that are dysregulated and feel like love is something that
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they have to earn or something that is performative or
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something that eventually betrays them or something that eventually abandons them.
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Whatever your wounds are, those are a self-fulfilling prophecy. You
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will choose people that confirm those wounds. That is just
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the way the subconscious mind works. And we've studied that
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for a really long time, but that doesn't leave you
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hopeless and helpless. There is an answer to that, which is,
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pouring into your own attachment security because secure nervous systems
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act as a compass.
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They act as a guide that you can trust, right?
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So if you're in the dating phase and you meet
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someone and your nervous system is very secure, meaning that
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it's learned to live in safety as its baseline, when
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someone starts showing red flags and you get that feeling
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of fear, your nervous system is going to be like,
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this is fear. This is not okay. This is not
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something that you should proceed with. This is a red
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flag here.
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Yep.
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Whereas an insecure nervous system that only knows love is
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pain or abandonment or criticism or whatever it is, is
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going to be like, oh, well, this is just what
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love is. And this is just a little hump we
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have to get over. Or this is my opportunity to
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show them I can love them better. It's going to
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find a way to bypass that red flag because it
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doesn't know what safety really feels like. And it's going
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to mistake fear for chemistry because chemistry is excitement and
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fear and excitement feel the same to an untrained nervous system.
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So this is why earning your attachment security is just so,
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so important.
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And I think you and I can both speak from experience.
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It doesn't really happen overnight. Like I can think about
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the trajectory of like the relationships that I had before
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I was like, okay, this is it, right?
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Like with my husband now.
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Where it was sort of gradual with each one where
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I was able to recognize more and more. And so
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the more I became safer within myself, I was able
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to recognize like, no, this isn't it.
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Even if I really liked the person.
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Right. You can really like someone and still realize that
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they don't give you everything you need or they have
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attributes that may not make them a safe and healthy partner.
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Yeah.
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So it'll happen. Just don't give up hope.
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Don't give up hope.
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And I think we should have a little detour and
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recognize that we showed up to the podcast studio with
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the exact same top on pretty much.
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We're twinning again, guys. We do this a lot.
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The amount of times that Raina and I have done
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this is absolutely absurd. It's crazy. And I'm sure that
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people watching on YouTube have now noticed that we have...
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almost nearly identical outfit on.
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I don't know if it's just from, well, I think,
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you know, working together and then being friends for almost
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a decade now.
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Isn't that crazy?
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Yeah.
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Almost a decade.
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That's awesome.
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I know. Look at us.
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Look at us.
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I think we're just so intertwined. Yes, for sure. But anyway,
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like I said, if you're twinning, you're winning. So we're
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going to win. September is the month of winning.
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It is the month of winning.
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August was a little rough.
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That's okay.
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We're wrapping it up. Okay, so here we go. Moving on.
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I'm an F.A.
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In a relationship with another F.A. I'm really struggling to
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show my feelings towards him. This morning I decided to
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put a meme or send him a meme that he
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sent me a few months ago on WhatsApp to make
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him happy. But there are lots of words missing in
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this one. But it freaked me out, and I took
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it down and then put it back up again. I'm
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in love with him, but I'm really struggling. Even looking
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him in the eyes is a challenge. I try, but
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I fail. He tries to show me that he loves
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me through acts of service, but I freeze each time
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I have to reciprocate. I don't want to lose him,
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and I don't know what to do.
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Asking for advice.
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Yeah, I mean, you have to work on your nervous system.
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I mean, you have to do a lot of nervous
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system work here, specifically around intimacy and conditioning safety around
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your own emotional experiences is huge. And really diving into challenging,
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what are you telling yourself when these things happen? What
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are your stories? What are you mentalizing? What are your
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own thoughts about? And how are those thoughts contributing to
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your nervous system activity? It really just comes down to
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the work, right?
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The work.
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The work that we know changes someone from insecure to secure.
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And even though each attachment style might have to utilize
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those tools a little bit differently because they have different
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nervous systems, outcome has to be the same. You have
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to be able to feel your own emotions, process them through.
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Because fear is a very top level emotion. Anger and
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fear are always top level. Emotions are like onions and
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there's so much underneath the surface of that that you
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are not touching. Underneath anger and fear sometimes is shame.
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Or even really underneath fear sometimes is anger and then shame.
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Sometimes we go from fear to shame. There's always layers
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to these emotions.
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And you have to be able to peel them back.
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Yeah.
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There's even more.
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Yeah. Because even above shame can be like, well, I
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have to perform to be worthy or, you know, so
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it keeps going.
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I mean, there's so much.
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There's so much.
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And you have to be able to peel those layers
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back and feel them through your body. It's the only
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way we get resolution. It's the only way the psyche
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actually integrates those past experiences as if we can peel
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those back and feel them through our body. And make
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sense of them, right? And make meaning of them. And
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I think we have enough data to tell us that
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that has to happen.
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And I just want to read a comment under this question,
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which is so appreciated.
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It says, Dr.
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Hensley's program, podcasts, and videos have so much great information
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in them.
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So please go watch them.
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Hey, Jordan, thank you.
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I won't say your last name, but Jordan, thank you
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so much for that shout out.
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That means so much to us.
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That is so amazing. So thank you so, so much
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for that. Because I agree. I agree that you give
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out so much free knowledge and information. And I will
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say for the person who posted that, you know, you
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have some awareness. So that's a good step.
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Help.
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I went to my ex's house earlier. We had planned
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for me to have the two younger kids while him
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and the oldest went out.
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He was on the phone. And when he told me
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with Sorry, guys. Some of these.
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Are really hard to read because people leave out words.
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He was on the phone when he told me with
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who I asked him if they were seeing each other.
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He blew up on me. Okay, so I'm assuming there's
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some context around this. You guys are separated. He was
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on the phone. You came in. You asked him who
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he was on the phone with. He blew up on
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me and said I was invading his privacy and being disrespectful.
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He told me to leave and that I needed to
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apologize to him for being disrespectful and And it had
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to be the way that he wanted me to say it.
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But I truly did not feel like I was disrespectful.
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I really pray, actually, that he finds a woman that
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will love him and treat my kids amazing. The kids
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were so upset after all this happened, begging him to stop.
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But he continued to tell them it was my fault
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and that all the plans were canceled. He told the
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kids that I was the toxic one and he was
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cutting me out of his life so that they could
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be healthier.
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How do I handle this?
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Yeah.
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So first of all, you have to triage the kid
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situation because it is never, ever, ever, ever, ever appropriate
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to talk about the other parent to your children in
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a negative way ever because they are made up of
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both of those parents and they want to love both
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of those parents and they have the right to love
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both of those parents. So that is extremely psychologically challenging.
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unhealthy on his part. And I would set boundaries around that. Um,
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you know, that it's, it's never let, just at least
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let him know that it's never appropriate to bring the
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kids involved. He's allowed to have whatever opinion of you
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he wants to have, but it's, it's going pretty low
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to try to make those kids have that same opinion.
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And so, I mean, there's honestly not a tough, a
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lot you can do with that. I should say there's
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not a lot you can do with that. I mean,
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family court's not going to care that you guys are
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talking crap about, or that he's talking crap. Just don't do,
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don't do it back. Do not say a negative word
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about their dad to them. Just say, I'm sorry that
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that made you feel bad. I can understand why that
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hurt to hear those things.
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I'm so sorry.
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Just acknowledge their experiences and love them. And then what
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I will say is, yeah, you probably shouldn't have asked
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that question. I mean, if you guys are truly separated
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to move on, Like you are in divorce proceedings or whatnot.
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Or already divorced. She just called him her ex.
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So it would be an appropriate question if you guys
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are trying to make it work.
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Right.
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Right.
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Then it would be like, oh, who are you talking to?
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Right. That's part of intimacy and relationships is that we
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reveal pieces of our life. And I think if you
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are in an intimate relationship where you're at the point
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of having children, living together, engaged, moving in together. sharing
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those things and giving up your right to privacy is expected.
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I mean, in marriage, there's really not much privacy and
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you shouldn't expect there to be. So yeah, you probably
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overstepped a little bit, but his reaction was definitely inappropriate
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given that there were children involved. And he could have
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totally texted you and just been like, hey, I think
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that that was not appropriate. I think you overstepped a
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little bit and I think we need to have boundaries.
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So he's dealing with some major types of insecurity. I
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don't know what's underneath the hood there, but you need
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to triage the kid's situation first and make sure that
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they feel psychologically okay. Step up and be like, don't
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be saying this in front of the kids. That's damaging
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to them. You can have whatever feelings you want about me,
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communicate them however you want to me without the kids around.
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And then you can decide if that's in line with
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your boundaries or not. And then you can go full
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low contact.
396
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All right.
397
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Yeah.
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You need to.
399
00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:14.859
Don't ask that question again.
400
00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:15.480
Only talk about the kids.
401
00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:16.000
Yeah.
402
00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:17.480
And maybe it was innocent.
403
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:20.240
Like, I can understand, like, walking in, especially, like, if
404
00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:22.440
you have a good relationship with your ex and be like, oh,
405
00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:25.180
who are you talking to? Or, you know, but still,
406
00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:28.740
it's just best if there's still some turmoil.
407
00:18:29.660 --> 00:18:33.420
Just don't. Just don't. I wouldn't.
408
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:35.380
Okay. Hello, Dr.
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00:18:35.400 --> 00:18:39.460
Sarah Hensley. Is this an example of well-done emotional completion?
410
00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:43.420
When you're experiencing a heartbreak or grief, to let yourself
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00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:47.549
cry your eyes out instead of numbing or disassociating, feeling
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00:18:47.609 --> 00:18:50.089
the pain and telling yourself that you are sad right now,
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00:18:50.150 --> 00:18:52.450
but you will be okay and this too shall pass.
414
00:18:52.930 --> 00:18:56.450
Thank you so much for your precious mind. That's the flow.
415
00:18:56.470 --> 00:19:02.099
Thank you for that. Yes, with a caveat. It is
416
00:19:02.180 --> 00:19:04.319
good that you felt through those feelings. It's good that
417
00:19:04.339 --> 00:19:06.319
you let them come through your body. It's good that
418
00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:11.779
you were, you know, acknowledging that these things are temporary.
419
00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:16.059
My question would be, did that self-talk help you feel safe?
420
00:19:16.940 --> 00:19:20.420
And then we can get into the part where we're
421
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.539
thinking too much while we're trying to feel, and then
422
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:28.000
we don't actually really integrate the emotional experience. Because feeling
423
00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:31.519
emotions is all about attention on the body and really
424
00:19:31.619 --> 00:19:35.329
just allowing feelings to be there and move through you.
425
00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:38.059
And so... That self-talk may be.
426
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:40.500
A form of kind of conditioned safety, but we don't
427
00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:42.220
want to be too much in our head when we're
428
00:19:42.240 --> 00:19:45.690
trying to, because then essentially we can kind of talk
429
00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:48.730
ourselves out of feeling the way that we do and
430
00:19:48.769 --> 00:19:51.410
then we don't actually let go. that energy move through
431
00:19:51.450 --> 00:19:55.490
us to completion. So emotional completion is all about attention
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on the body with conditioned safety, trying not to think
433
00:19:57.930 --> 00:19:59.859
too much, trying to just feel through it. You know,
434
00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:02.579
almost like in meditation when, you know, you find your
435
00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:05.119
mind wandering, you want to just bring the attention back
436
00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:06.700
to your body. It's the same principle.
437
00:20:06.720 --> 00:20:10.220
Yeah. And there's some things, there's some ways you feel
438
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.200
after you have emotional completion.
439
00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:13.559
Explain some of those things.
440
00:20:13.859 --> 00:20:18.519
You should feel very tired because emotion is energy in motion.
441
00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:22.940
And when we get to the sort of, we can
442
00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:24.819
be kind of frozen and then we can drop down
443
00:20:24.859 --> 00:20:29.559
into more fight or flight energy. And crying is a
444
00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:33.140
way to release some of that energy. And so we
445
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:38.039
should feel an energy shift. when we've completed emotions. And
446
00:20:38.119 --> 00:20:41.019
usually when people really start doing it correctly, fatigue is
447
00:20:41.059 --> 00:20:42.839
a big side effect. I would say that's the most
448
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:44.759
negative side effect people have to deal with. It's like,
449
00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:46.759
I'm so tired. I just want to take a nap.
450
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.200
And I'm like, yeah, because you've been running on adrenaline
451
00:20:49.259 --> 00:20:52.099
for so long in this fight or flight state. And
452
00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:55.789
your body is learning that it doesn't need to have
453
00:20:55.829 --> 00:21:00.509
a baseline of running on adrenaline and cortisol and all
454
00:21:00.529 --> 00:21:02.890
of the things. So yeah, you will feel tired, but
455
00:21:02.910 --> 00:21:05.450
that wears off. Your body learns how to adjust to
456
00:21:05.490 --> 00:21:08.980
run off regular old glucose or ketones or whatever you
457
00:21:09.029 --> 00:21:09.680
got going on.
458
00:21:09.740 --> 00:21:10.730
I mean, it'll learn.
459
00:21:10.750 --> 00:21:15.269
Yeah. I've experienced both too, where like I've cried, I've
460
00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:20.710
had a really good hard cry and it's felt, I've
461
00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:24.690
felt the release versus like a really good hard cry
462
00:21:24.740 --> 00:21:28.640
and I'm like sweating and like stressed and like I
463
00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:32.400
don't feel as good afterwards. I would say that when
464
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:37.130
I have a good emotionally processing cry and I am tired,
465
00:21:37.349 --> 00:21:41.009
but I feel like this weight is lifted off my shoulders.
466
00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:44.430
I'm pretty exhausted even the next day after I have
467
00:21:44.470 --> 00:21:48.720
a huge emotional release. And I think that there's probably
468
00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.380
some evolutionary components to that. Like our body is telling
469
00:21:52.460 --> 00:21:55.859
us to rest because we've had too much emotional stress.
470
00:21:56.420 --> 00:21:59.019
So once we release it, it's like the body's natural
471
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:00.400
inclination to rest.
472
00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:03.059
So yeah. Yeah.
473
00:22:03.710 --> 00:22:04.650
Just rest, baby.
474
00:22:04.809 --> 00:22:06.450
Yeah, I know. Pride out and rest.
475
00:22:06.650 --> 00:22:09.289
It's not always an option in the life that we live, though.
476
00:22:09.309 --> 00:22:11.170
No, it's not. Yeah, life is demanding.
477
00:22:11.190 --> 00:22:14.630
Okay. Trying so hard to trust my DA husband, but
478
00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:17.900
there is this ache in my gut that he isn't
479
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:18.819
wholly faithful to me.
480
00:22:19.559 --> 00:22:20.460
I feel like I'm crazy.
481
00:22:20.700 --> 00:22:22.740
Maybe he isn't cheating, but my gut says he has
482
00:22:22.819 --> 00:22:27.039
female contacts he shouldn't have or that he is misleading
483
00:22:27.099 --> 00:22:30.660
women just as entertainment. Is this a common feeling? There's
484
00:22:30.720 --> 00:22:32.849
zero evidence of it, though, and I know a lot
485
00:22:32.869 --> 00:22:35.690
of people who would tell on him, friends, et cetera,
486
00:22:35.710 --> 00:22:39.829
that work with him. Are we non-DAs just wired to
487
00:22:39.890 --> 00:22:43.329
assume that that's happening when a man feels emotionally withdrawn?
488
00:22:43.990 --> 00:22:45.190
He must be cheating.
489
00:22:46.130 --> 00:22:47.970
My husband and I have been through it, but things
490
00:22:48.029 --> 00:22:50.990
are a ton better than they once were. But I
491
00:22:51.289 --> 00:22:53.210
can't seem to just shake that fear.
492
00:22:54.230 --> 00:22:59.150
Ooh, that's a tough one. One, intuition is very powerful.
493
00:22:59.170 --> 00:23:03.160
It is extremely powerful. However, our attachment wounds can screw
494
00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:05.839
with our intuition a little bit where, you know, if
495
00:23:05.859 --> 00:23:08.799
you have this wound around betrayal, if you're an FA,
496
00:23:08.859 --> 00:23:12.799
you know, I expect everybody to betray me. Peace can
497
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:14.940
kind of disrupt that. You're going to be hypervigilant and
498
00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:18.829
being like, where is the, where's the betrayal, right? And
499
00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:22.589
someone who's neglecting you inherently, there is some betrayal associated
500
00:23:22.630 --> 00:23:26.880
with neglect. So It's not unreasonable that your brain might
501
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:31.200
go to, well, maybe because there's neglect, there's someone else.
502
00:23:32.200 --> 00:23:35.059
But you can only operate within the evidence that you have, right?
503
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:36.759
And you need to be able to work on your
504
00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:39.180
own nervous system so that your nervous system is a
505
00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:43.849
good compass. Again, I can't say it more. Your nervous system,
506
00:23:43.930 --> 00:23:46.490
when in a healthy state, when in a baseline of
507
00:23:47.390 --> 00:23:50.670
non-threatening activity, ventral vagal safety.
508
00:23:51.849 --> 00:23:52.750
It's a good compass.
509
00:23:52.769 --> 00:23:53.049
Yeah.
510
00:23:53.720 --> 00:23:56.720
When your nervous system is chronically dysregulated because you're in
511
00:23:56.740 --> 00:23:59.220
a bad relationship and or most of the time and
512
00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:04.220
you have insecure attachment, you can't trust it. And questioning
513
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.900
your own intuition, that's the thing that'll make you the craziest.
514
00:24:06.980 --> 00:24:07.880
Oh, yeah, for sure.
515
00:24:07.980 --> 00:24:10.089
That'll make you go absolutely bonkers.
516
00:24:11.130 --> 00:24:12.490
I have a friend that I'm trying to walk through
517
00:24:12.509 --> 00:24:16.069
this right now where she's like, I need to reach out.
518
00:24:16.730 --> 00:24:20.609
She has an XDA and she feels this need for closure.
519
00:24:23.549 --> 00:24:27.549
But I'm like, where is that coming from? Isn't the
520
00:24:27.589 --> 00:24:31.930
closure just that you guys broke up and he's never,
521
00:24:32.450 --> 00:24:35.660
other than maybe like a like on a picture, like
522
00:24:35.700 --> 00:24:38.799
he's never tried to reach back out and seek any
523
00:24:38.859 --> 00:24:39.839
type of connection?
524
00:24:40.059 --> 00:24:42.220
There's a lot of times in life when we have
525
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.849
to make our own closure because we can't rely on
526
00:24:44.890 --> 00:24:48.130
somebody else to give us something that they are not
527
00:24:48.190 --> 00:24:54.740
capable of themselves giving. You can't, you know... squeeze water
528
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:57.579
from a dry spout. Like you can't do it. And
529
00:24:57.660 --> 00:25:00.839
so the only answer to that is you giving up
530
00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:02.640
the need for it. And that has to be work
531
00:25:02.660 --> 00:25:06.460
you do within yourself that you say, listen, someone's behavior
532
00:25:06.900 --> 00:25:10.220
sometimes is the closure. My radical acceptance of their bad
533
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:14.710
behavior is the closure. It's their lack of capacity is
534
00:25:14.769 --> 00:25:20.470
the closure. Not having closure does not keep you from
535
00:25:20.529 --> 00:25:24.869
moving on. It's, you'll convince yourself that it does. It's
536
00:25:24.890 --> 00:25:27.990
something we want, but it's not something that most people
537
00:25:28.029 --> 00:25:30.049
can give if they're insecurely attached.
538
00:25:30.289 --> 00:25:31.049
And that's what I told her.
539
00:25:31.069 --> 00:25:32.789
I'm like, you could seek that out and not find
540
00:25:32.809 --> 00:25:36.019
it anyway, or potentially just get back. I mean, this
541
00:25:36.059 --> 00:25:39.460
was like a very long three to four year long
542
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.920
relationship where it was just the constant DA cycle, constant
543
00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.289
DA cycle. And I'm like, you risk getting back into
544
00:25:46.329 --> 00:25:49.690
that when you've already removed yourself and you've done the work.
545
00:25:50.190 --> 00:25:52.589
What triggered it in her was she had a dream
546
00:25:52.670 --> 00:25:56.599
about him. And I'm like, that is not– don't let
547
00:25:56.630 --> 00:25:59.839
that fool you. Don't let that tell you that that's
548
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:01.819
what– like that you need to reach out to him
549
00:26:01.859 --> 00:26:03.700
because that's just your subconscious.
550
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.119
I mean, God told Lot and his wife, don't look back, right?
551
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:09.359
And she did, and we all know what happened to her.
552
00:26:09.380 --> 00:26:13.279
She turned into the salt. So sometimes in life when
553
00:26:13.299 --> 00:26:15.640
you're already a little bit removed, you just need to
554
00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:17.680
keep trudging forward and not look back.
555
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:20.710
And she's made so much– growth in it. And I'm like,
556
00:26:20.829 --> 00:26:22.950
don't go back. I even told her, she was like,
557
00:26:22.990 --> 00:26:25.170
I'm like, she was like, well, I've had this urge
558
00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:26.250
to really reach out to him.
559
00:26:26.329 --> 00:26:28.329
I'm like, every time you have that urge, just text
560
00:26:28.410 --> 00:26:30.319
me and I'll talk you through it.
561
00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:31.660
Absolutely.
562
00:26:31.720 --> 00:26:33.660
Sometimes we have to do that. Sometimes we have to
563
00:26:34.220 --> 00:26:36.119
lean on our support systems a little bit when we
564
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:39.900
start having weak moments and remind ourselves to go back
565
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:43.289
to the work that we've been doing and not continue
566
00:26:43.309 --> 00:26:45.230
to go backwards.
567
00:26:45.250 --> 00:26:45.349
Yeah.
568
00:26:46.069 --> 00:26:47.930
Because it's so easy to get snapped backwards.
569
00:26:47.990 --> 00:26:49.990
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's like you said, like it's
570
00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:54.660
just that constant questioning of like, and that's what she's doing.
571
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:56.000
She's questioning all these like.
572
00:26:56.859 --> 00:26:59.759
Little things. Yeah, like signs or, you know.
573
00:27:00.019 --> 00:27:02.839
And also once you start learning about attachment theory and
574
00:27:02.859 --> 00:27:05.099
you see it, what happens to so many people is
575
00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:08.519
they go, oh my gosh, I did everything wrong.
576
00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:09.180
Because I had a DA partner.
577
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.019
If I could have just responded so much differently to them,
578
00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:15.119
then we could have had a better relationship. Well, maybe,
579
00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:18.099
but there's all tons of damage that's already been done.
580
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:20.900
And you can't undo that just because you know better now.
581
00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:24.470
And so most of the time, it's probably the right
582
00:27:24.509 --> 00:27:27.710
decision to just keep moving on versus lose all of
583
00:27:27.769 --> 00:27:31.150
that healing, backtrack, get yourself into a relationship where someone
584
00:27:31.210 --> 00:27:34.049
may or may not respond to your new security. And
585
00:27:34.089 --> 00:27:36.009
most of the time when people do earn their security,
586
00:27:36.049 --> 00:27:39.059
they lose attraction for those people. It's a huge sign
587
00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:41.259
that you've become secure is when you look at your
588
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:43.099
ex and you go, ugh.
589
00:27:43.180 --> 00:27:45.579
How was I ever into him?
590
00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:46.640
How?
591
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:47.200
How?
592
00:27:47.619 --> 00:27:48.640
What was I thinking?
593
00:27:48.660 --> 00:27:53.309
Right? Yes. Okay. Do secure people engage in chasing or
594
00:27:53.390 --> 00:27:57.569
proactively pursuing when someone caught their attention? Note, it doesn't
595
00:27:57.609 --> 00:28:01.109
need to be full-on sparks or neither obsessive.
596
00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:02.109
I'm not asking that.
597
00:28:02.630 --> 00:28:05.549
I'm asking about a healthy, moderate pursuing, like the one
598
00:28:05.569 --> 00:28:07.950
that men in the 80s were expected to have towards women.
599
00:28:08.670 --> 00:28:11.210
I think we should continue to keep up that expectation
600
00:28:11.269 --> 00:28:12.809
that men should pursue women.
601
00:28:14.849 --> 00:28:15.109
Yeah.
602
00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:18.369
I mean, healthy, secure partners pursue. In fact, they're very
603
00:28:18.450 --> 00:28:23.309
honest about their intentions, what they want, and they're freaking consistent.
604
00:28:23.410 --> 00:28:24.089
And so.
605
00:28:25.410 --> 00:28:27.890
They are not going to leave you feeling confused. They
606
00:28:27.950 --> 00:28:30.710
are not going to dip their toe in it. They
607
00:28:30.750 --> 00:28:33.190
are going to keep things at a healthy pace for sure.
608
00:28:34.150 --> 00:28:35.869
They're going to take you out on a date. They're
609
00:28:35.890 --> 00:28:39.559
going to let you know that they like you. Secure
610
00:28:39.599 --> 00:28:44.430
people aren't afraid to share that information. And then they're
611
00:28:44.450 --> 00:28:46.490
going to be consistent. And the consistency is what you
612
00:28:46.509 --> 00:28:50.029
have to really look for. People who are secure are
613
00:28:50.089 --> 00:28:54.890
generally pretty consistent in terms of reciprocation and energy and
614
00:28:54.990 --> 00:28:57.799
effort and temper and all of those things. If you
615
00:28:57.819 --> 00:28:59.900
really start to see a shift, that should be your sign.
616
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:00.740
That's your sign.
617
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:04.240
Yep. Yep. And if you're not attracted to when that
618
00:29:04.299 --> 00:29:05.640
person shows up that way.
619
00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:09.259
That's your red flag. That's your sign that you're the
620
00:29:09.319 --> 00:29:09.900
red flag.
621
00:29:09.940 --> 00:29:11.119
Yeah, exactly.
622
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:12.200
You're the red flag.
623
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:13.160
Exactly. Okay.
624
00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:13.720
Dr.
625
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:15.960
Hensley, I'm an FA who recently started my journey to
626
00:29:15.980 --> 00:29:19.150
become secure. I'm two months post-breakup with a DA boyfriend.
627
00:29:19.730 --> 00:29:23.589
I've been doing your 12-week self-led course. Well, it's four weeks,
628
00:29:23.670 --> 00:29:26.390
but it's 12 weeks of information over four weeks. I've
629
00:29:26.430 --> 00:29:29.150
noticed that when I'm doing the breathing techniques and the neurofeedback,
630
00:29:29.190 --> 00:29:31.049
sometimes I will randomly start crying.
631
00:29:31.069 --> 00:29:32.339
Yay.
632
00:29:32.380 --> 00:29:32.690
Yay.
633
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:34.720
Yeah, that's a good sign.
634
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:37.859
Even when I was not upset or sad. I'm not
635
00:29:37.940 --> 00:29:39.289
really a person that cries a lot.
636
00:29:39.450 --> 00:29:41.630
There have been times... when I haven't cried for like
637
00:29:41.690 --> 00:29:42.599
two or three years.
638
00:29:43.180 --> 00:29:46.319
Wow. Now I feel like I'm crying every week, sometimes more.
639
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:49.920
Is this normal and what does it mean? Also, is
640
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:53.539
it normal when doing neurofeedback to be able to identify
641
00:29:53.559 --> 00:29:55.660
in my body where my pain and emotions are? I
642
00:29:55.720 --> 00:29:58.150
always feel tight in my jaw and neck. but thought
643
00:29:58.170 --> 00:30:00.150
that was my TMJ. I don't know if I'm doing
644
00:30:00.170 --> 00:30:01.650
this right. Thanks for any insight. Yeah.
645
00:30:01.670 --> 00:30:04.430
It sounds like you're doing it right. Cause you know,
646
00:30:04.490 --> 00:30:07.450
you're supposed to get to some emotional release. You're supposed
647
00:30:07.470 --> 00:30:09.930
to be able to feel emotions and allow them to
648
00:30:10.049 --> 00:30:12.230
release from your body. And sometimes that looks like crying.
649
00:30:12.950 --> 00:30:16.599
Sometimes it looks like, you know, shaking. Sometimes it looks
650
00:30:16.630 --> 00:30:21.200
like just, you know, feelings of exhaustion and fatigue kind
651
00:30:21.240 --> 00:30:23.420
of coming over you and just this pent up energy,
652
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:26.039
just kind of letting go. So yeah, I mean the solace,
653
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:32.529
somatic looping for attachment-centered embodiment, neurofeedback technique that I developed
654
00:30:32.589 --> 00:30:36.269
and is proprietary from the science. And I'm going to
655
00:30:36.309 --> 00:30:38.170
be publishing a paper on it. And part of what
656
00:30:38.190 --> 00:30:42.299
got me my book deal, it really is meant to,
657
00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:45.259
for people who have suppressed for a really long time,
658
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:49.900
AKA the DAs, the FAs, to be able to finally
659
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.730
release that stuff and integrate your life experiences.
660
00:30:53.789 --> 00:30:55.269
So yeah, it sounds like you're doing a great job.
661
00:30:55.309 --> 00:30:56.890
And of course it's going to take time, babe.
662
00:30:56.970 --> 00:30:57.369
It will.
663
00:30:57.630 --> 00:30:59.569
Like, it's not like you're just going to cry once
664
00:30:59.589 --> 00:31:00.250
and be like, okay.
665
00:31:00.950 --> 00:31:01.089
Yeah.
666
00:31:01.130 --> 00:31:04.559
You can't, you can't release like a lifetime of suppressed
667
00:31:04.599 --> 00:31:08.119
or unprocessed stuff. You'll never release it all. It's about
668
00:31:08.180 --> 00:31:11.480
releasing enough to repressurize your nervous system into feeling like
669
00:31:11.539 --> 00:31:14.009
I'm safe enough. Hmm. You know, not like I'm safe
670
00:31:14.029 --> 00:31:15.710
from everything that has ever happened to me in my
671
00:31:15.750 --> 00:31:16.410
entire life.
672
00:31:16.490 --> 00:31:16.670
Right.
673
00:31:16.890 --> 00:31:19.539
If you've never processed emotion, you can't reach into that
674
00:31:19.579 --> 00:31:21.380
file cabinet and be like, well, let me just take
675
00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:22.400
one file at a time.
676
00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:23.859
It doesn't work that way.
677
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:27.279
I mean, your nervous system sort of compiles these life
678
00:31:27.339 --> 00:31:31.670
experiences into sort of themes and predictions about the future.
679
00:31:32.289 --> 00:31:34.950
And when you finally sort of hit on a deep
680
00:31:35.150 --> 00:31:38.730
theme that has been painful in your life and you
681
00:31:38.769 --> 00:31:41.730
truly start to release that, it's going to take a while,
682
00:31:41.809 --> 00:31:46.190
but eventually... those safe experiences with yourself and feeling your
683
00:31:46.289 --> 00:31:50.319
own emotions are going to kind of override those old
684
00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:53.400
stories that, you know, I'm not safe if this specific
685
00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.319
emotion is happening inside my body.
686
00:31:55.339 --> 00:31:56.200
Yeah.
687
00:31:56.980 --> 00:31:57.779
Just keep going, babe.
688
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.740
All right. My wife is hardcore F-A-E slash D-A, which
689
00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:03.019
probably means she's F-A.
690
00:32:03.140 --> 00:32:04.720
Fearful avoidant that means dismissive.
691
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.250
Yeah. And just now really starting her healing journey with
692
00:32:08.309 --> 00:32:09.869
new meds plus psychiatry.
693
00:32:09.950 --> 00:32:12.549
She's been the primary wedge in our marriage.
694
00:32:13.250 --> 00:32:17.490
I've instituted a policy of I'll only start couples therapy
695
00:32:17.630 --> 00:32:20.490
and working on us once she is much further along
696
00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:24.509
in her personal healing journey to truly be emotionally available
697
00:32:24.569 --> 00:32:24.970
for us.
698
00:32:25.670 --> 00:32:27.279
Is this the right way to handle this?
699
00:32:28.279 --> 00:32:30.700
Well, I think if there, so there's different issues here, right?
700
00:32:30.740 --> 00:32:33.140
We have attachment and then we have mental health, right?
701
00:32:33.200 --> 00:32:36.180
So is she dealing with anxiety, depression? Is she dealing
702
00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:40.319
with some kind of other mental health issue that she,
703
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:44.319
that needs stabilized first? I think giving her some room
704
00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:50.400
to have that issue addressed properly can be appropriate. I
705
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.130
think if she's truly emotionally unavailable, I just would not.
706
00:32:57.009 --> 00:32:58.190
Suggest couples therapy.
707
00:32:58.269 --> 00:32:58.609
I know.
708
00:32:58.990 --> 00:33:00.990
It is so triggering for them and it can set
709
00:33:01.029 --> 00:33:04.779
you back so far because you have to think about this, guys.
710
00:33:05.740 --> 00:33:09.329
if they have wounds around vulnerability and criticism, which people
711
00:33:09.390 --> 00:33:12.910
who are in any way dismissive, whether that's fearful, who
712
00:33:12.950 --> 00:33:15.259
just leans to more of that dismissive side, or the
713
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:18.299
true dismissive avoidant, the moment they get in the couples
714
00:33:18.339 --> 00:33:21.859
therapy chair is the moment their nervous system goes bonkers.
715
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.960
And a dysregulated person can't learn, and a person who
716
00:33:25.000 --> 00:33:27.589
tends to freeze is not going to participate well. So
717
00:33:27.630 --> 00:33:31.859
you could end up in a really bad cycle. That's
718
00:33:31.880 --> 00:33:34.079
the whole reason I created my hybrid group, because it's
719
00:33:34.140 --> 00:33:36.619
not forcing them to be vulnerable or to take criticism,
720
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:38.920
but it also gives them what they need to change.
721
00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:43.220
And they just need to be in an environment that
722
00:33:43.279 --> 00:33:46.180
is not, a couple's therapy is just rehashing fights.
723
00:33:45.880 --> 00:33:46.640
Most of the time.
724
00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:48.319
I mean, you might get some tips on, yeah, you
725
00:33:48.339 --> 00:33:49.680
shouldn't say it this way, or you shouldn't do it
726
00:33:49.700 --> 00:33:53.559
this way, or here's maybe how to approach regulation. But
727
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:58.589
there's usually not a very specific protocol. Their brain only
728
00:33:58.690 --> 00:34:02.809
works around specific protocols. This whole abstract, do this, do that,
729
00:34:02.849 --> 00:34:05.690
say this, not that, just doesn't work. And I'm just
730
00:34:05.750 --> 00:34:11.679
really so saddened by modern-day couples therapy, couples counseling. I mean,
731
00:34:11.820 --> 00:34:15.920
it's generally, in my opinion, not that effective.
732
00:34:15.980 --> 00:34:16.760
People end up worse.
733
00:34:17.789 --> 00:34:20.030
I mean, I know that you've seen this time and
734
00:34:20.090 --> 00:34:23.710
time again where couples come to you and they've been
735
00:34:23.730 --> 00:34:26.949
in years of couples therapy and they're like, we're worse
736
00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:27.780
than we ever were.
737
00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:30.639
I mean, an AP with an FA, you've got some
738
00:34:31.460 --> 00:34:32.940
hope there, you know?
739
00:34:34.119 --> 00:34:35.119
What about two FAs?
740
00:34:37.500 --> 00:34:43.619
Yeah, if the therapist is very, very aware of of
741
00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:47.500
the type of conflict cycle and dysregulation and gives them really,
742
00:34:47.579 --> 00:34:51.099
really solid tools around regulating in conflict and a really
743
00:34:51.139 --> 00:34:56.360
solid conflict resolution protocol. But someone who's FAA-leaning dismissive with
744
00:34:56.460 --> 00:35:01.099
a DA or with, like, I don't know. It depends
745
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:02.800
on how dismissive one of the partners is.
746
00:35:02.820 --> 00:35:03.780
Right, right.
747
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:07.070
And I can imagine, like, I mean, even in my
748
00:35:07.210 --> 00:35:11.449
more avoidant moments in my life, and I've had them
749
00:35:11.530 --> 00:35:16.119
for sure, The idea of someone forcing me into that
750
00:35:17.960 --> 00:35:22.909
intimate of a situation to kind of expose my avoidance
751
00:35:23.070 --> 00:35:26.730
would be like, I would reject that like the plague. Yeah.
752
00:35:26.750 --> 00:35:29.010
I mean, you're defensive the moment you sit down.
753
00:35:29.030 --> 00:35:31.369
The moment. The moment you sit down.
754
00:35:31.389 --> 00:35:31.469
Yeah.
755
00:35:31.530 --> 00:35:33.869
Because you're not going to feel safe with a stranger
756
00:35:33.929 --> 00:35:36.400
criticizing you. And then you're not going to feel safe
757
00:35:36.420 --> 00:35:39.570
with your partner criticizing you. And your brain's going to
758
00:35:39.610 --> 00:35:42.429
not feel safe to be vulnerable in front of a
759
00:35:42.510 --> 00:35:45.570
stranger like that. It's just for those that have that
760
00:35:45.630 --> 00:35:48.710
real strong dismissive side, it's just not a good situation
761
00:35:48.730 --> 00:35:48.929
for them.
762
00:35:48.949 --> 00:35:50.449
Check out Dr. Hensley's hybrid group.
763
00:35:50.730 --> 00:35:54.679
Which doesn't rule out that therapy cannot be beneficial for
764
00:35:54.780 --> 00:35:55.820
some types of couples.
765
00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:59.480
It can be very beneficial. But the dismissives, no.
766
00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:00.260
No.
767
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.659
It's just not going to work. I know them too
768
00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:05.289
well and it doesn't It doesn't even make sense with
769
00:36:05.309 --> 00:36:06.150
their nervous system.
770
00:36:06.269 --> 00:36:07.320
Well, and you've seen it.
771
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:09.599
You've seen it over and over and over again.
772
00:36:09.719 --> 00:36:11.340
I mean, the majority of people that come to me
773
00:36:11.460 --> 00:36:13.739
and are like, couples therapy was a nightmare.
774
00:36:13.900 --> 00:36:16.179
Yeah. Yeah. We're going to do a couple more guys
775
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:18.039
and then we're going to wrap up. I'm a healing DA.
776
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:21.139
My kid's dad says he's a healing AP. Wow. Okay.
777
00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:22.039
The kids seem very aware.
778
00:36:22.139 --> 00:36:22.360
Okay.
779
00:36:22.719 --> 00:36:24.800
We just started the divorce process. A little backstory.
780
00:36:24.820 --> 00:36:26.690
I got pregnant by complete surprise and we got married
781
00:36:26.710 --> 00:36:28.389
when I was three months along with our first. We
782
00:36:28.429 --> 00:36:30.610
had a really rough first few years of marriage and
783
00:36:30.630 --> 00:36:32.900
I was not the easiest to live with eight years
784
00:36:32.940 --> 00:36:34.519
into our marriage. My husband told me he had been
785
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:38.980
watching porn since right after our first child was born.
786
00:36:39.619 --> 00:36:41.699
I was crushed as when we were dating, we both
787
00:36:41.750 --> 00:36:45.250
agreed porn was cheating. Yes. Then the next night he
788
00:36:45.309 --> 00:36:47.949
informed me he had an affair with a coworker a
789
00:36:47.989 --> 00:36:50.050
few months before he told me I was upset, but
790
00:36:50.090 --> 00:36:52.210
agreed to try to work it out. Less than six
791
00:36:52.230 --> 00:36:55.260
months later, he had another affair with another coworker who
792
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:57.679
was married and in an open marriage. It was a
793
00:36:57.699 --> 00:37:00.369
very involved affair and was off and on for a year.
794
00:37:00.510 --> 00:37:02.650
He wants to work it out and is very pushy
795
00:37:02.670 --> 00:37:04.869
to me about it. I don't think I will ever
796
00:37:04.929 --> 00:37:07.070
be able to not question if he is talking to
797
00:37:07.110 --> 00:37:09.150
someone again. How do I set boundaries and still have
798
00:37:09.170 --> 00:37:13.320
a good co-parenting relationship? I'm not going to work it
799
00:37:13.460 --> 00:37:15.679
out and I'm at peace with my decision to divorce.
800
00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:16.159
Thank God.
801
00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:18.320
So glad about that.
802
00:37:18.380 --> 00:37:18.699
Yes.
803
00:37:19.360 --> 00:37:21.820
So glad about that. That's habitual.
804
00:37:22.300 --> 00:37:24.039
Yeah, that's a habitual pattern.
805
00:37:24.059 --> 00:37:27.780
Yeah. Like once can be a mistake, like twice is
806
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.110
a pattern. So I would say go head first into
807
00:37:31.130 --> 00:37:36.090
your own attachment security. You know, focus on healthy co-parenting.
808
00:37:36.110 --> 00:37:41.650
I know everybody wants to be this freaking BFF with
809
00:37:41.670 --> 00:37:45.280
their co-parent for the sake of their children. But a
810
00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:47.139
lot of times there's too much pain.
811
00:37:46.900 --> 00:37:48.559
To be able to do that.
812
00:37:49.159 --> 00:37:51.920
And so do what's best for your kids, but don't
813
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.280
feel like that means you have to be some kind
814
00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:58.340
of best friend with, your ex, you don't. You are
815
00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:02.000
simply making decisions and only speaking about what's best for
816
00:38:02.199 --> 00:38:06.659
the kiddo. And if he's AP and very pushy, you're
817
00:38:06.679 --> 00:38:09.320
going to just have tons of boundaries that I'm not
818
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.949
having conversations that are about you and I. I'm only
819
00:38:12.010 --> 00:38:16.309
having conversations about the children. And then disengage if he
820
00:38:16.349 --> 00:38:20.429
starts to push about the relationship. You have to have
821
00:38:20.889 --> 00:38:24.349
steadfast boundaries around we're not doing this.
822
00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:25.760
We're not getting back together.
823
00:38:25.780 --> 00:38:29.260
So when you're ready to talk about the kids only,
824
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.239
feel free to message me. But if it's anything other
825
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.599
than the children, I'm just not going to respond to it.
826
00:38:35.500 --> 00:38:40.369
And I highly suggest the apps, the parenting apps, where
827
00:38:40.389 --> 00:38:43.690
you communicate over the app because text messages cannot be
828
00:38:43.750 --> 00:38:46.289
really verified very well in family court. If you have
829
00:38:46.329 --> 00:38:51.300
an app that can't be messed with, that's your best bet.
830
00:38:51.360 --> 00:38:55.179
Because if he starts getting a lot of times people
831
00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:59.860
that are capable of that type of deception and have
832
00:38:59.960 --> 00:39:03.679
very high attachment anxiety can start to spiral a little
833
00:39:03.699 --> 00:39:06.900
bit when you truly remove the possibility of the relationship
834
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:09.420
and you need to protect yourself from that potential spiral.
835
00:39:09.739 --> 00:39:10.340
Absolutely.
836
00:39:11.019 --> 00:39:14.159
And just relinquishing the control, I think I experienced this
837
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:17.579
too with my ex of like, I felt like I
838
00:39:17.619 --> 00:39:20.000
needed to be friends with him in a sense so
839
00:39:20.099 --> 00:39:23.929
that I could change the narrative that he had of
840
00:39:24.030 --> 00:39:27.429
me But it didn't matter. He was going to have
841
00:39:27.489 --> 00:39:30.869
the narrative that he wanted either way. And so once
842
00:39:30.949 --> 00:39:35.239
I accepted that, it was this, it was hard. It
843
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.679
definitely was hard to really, really let go of any
844
00:39:38.739 --> 00:39:41.699
type of relationship. But I really felt like for a
845
00:39:41.719 --> 00:39:43.980
long time, I need to be friends with him for
846
00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.840
our kid. And then, you know, we can make sure
847
00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:49.630
I can make sure that you know, he's not talking
848
00:39:49.670 --> 00:39:50.110
bad about me.
849
00:39:50.190 --> 00:39:51.170
It didn't matter.
850
00:39:51.190 --> 00:39:53.889
It didn't matter. He was going to talk bad about
851
00:39:53.929 --> 00:39:55.110
me anyway.
852
00:39:55.190 --> 00:39:57.670
If your co-parent wants to talk crap about you, they're
853
00:39:57.690 --> 00:39:59.809
going to talk crap about you. There's nothing you can
854
00:39:59.849 --> 00:40:02.710
do to try to prove that you are somehow now
855
00:40:02.769 --> 00:40:07.460
worthy of not being talked about. That is their issue.
856
00:40:07.500 --> 00:40:10.159
When I finally accepted, why do I care what this
857
00:40:10.239 --> 00:40:12.940
person who's not really even that great of a person
858
00:40:12.980 --> 00:40:15.690
thinks of me? And once I thought that, I was like,
859
00:40:15.710 --> 00:40:16.510
you know what? Okay.
860
00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:17.070
It kind of clicked.
861
00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:18.369
Worry about what your kid thinks of you.
862
00:40:18.449 --> 00:40:18.670
Yeah.
863
00:40:18.949 --> 00:40:19.170
Yes.
864
00:40:19.230 --> 00:40:20.380
Don't worry about what your ex thinks of you.
865
00:40:20.409 --> 00:40:22.090
And the best thing you can do there is just
866
00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:23.909
don't do the same thing.
867
00:40:23.949 --> 00:40:24.309
Don't.
868
00:40:24.530 --> 00:40:24.750
No.
869
00:40:24.849 --> 00:40:28.349
Because I promise you guys, kids realize by the time
870
00:40:28.389 --> 00:40:30.409
they're 9, 10, they really.
871
00:40:30.110 --> 00:40:30.800
Start to get it.
872
00:40:30.949 --> 00:40:36.000
They really start to go, oh, wow. When I'm with mom,
873
00:40:36.380 --> 00:40:39.199
she doesn't talk bad about my dad. She doesn't pressure
874
00:40:39.219 --> 00:40:42.420
me about what happens at dad's house. She doesn't, you
875
00:40:42.460 --> 00:40:46.739
know– make me feel bad for loving my dad, I
876
00:40:46.780 --> 00:40:50.039
feel safer with mom versus when I'm with dad and
877
00:40:50.059 --> 00:40:51.599
dad talks about mom bad.
878
00:40:51.739 --> 00:40:55.179
And I mean, my own oldest child recalls all of this.
879
00:40:55.199 --> 00:40:55.840
Absolutely.
880
00:40:56.360 --> 00:40:58.929
You know, I am made to feel guilty for loving
881
00:40:58.969 --> 00:41:01.110
my mom or my dad talks bad about my mom.
882
00:41:01.150 --> 00:41:02.670
And it could go the other way too, right?
883
00:41:02.929 --> 00:41:06.489
Yeah. I've personally been involved in situations where, you know,
884
00:41:06.510 --> 00:41:09.980
the dad is definitely the better parent and doesn't talk
885
00:41:10.019 --> 00:41:12.349
crap about the mom and the mom just can't help it.
886
00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:12.679
Yeah.
887
00:41:12.820 --> 00:41:14.050
But talk bad.
888
00:41:14.070 --> 00:41:14.949
Gender isn't an issue here.
889
00:41:14.969 --> 00:41:17.409
It can go absolutely both ways. It is not, you know,
890
00:41:17.429 --> 00:41:17.630
an issue.
891
00:41:17.769 --> 00:41:20.510
We just have personal experiences with ours.
892
00:41:20.630 --> 00:41:24.829
So, okay, last one, guys. This is a good one. Curious.
893
00:41:25.869 --> 00:41:30.820
For people who have reached their security, how long did
894
00:41:30.860 --> 00:41:33.719
it take you and how long does it typically take
895
00:41:34.420 --> 00:41:36.920
once you start doing the work consistently?
896
00:41:36.940 --> 00:41:37.019
Okay.
897
00:41:37.909 --> 00:41:41.230
And any comments, welcome from DAs or APs. I'm FA,
898
00:41:41.329 --> 00:41:42.630
so asking for reference.
899
00:41:43.710 --> 00:41:47.329
I wish humans were math problems, but they're not math problems.
900
00:41:47.489 --> 00:41:50.159
And so the answer is, you know, anywhere from four
901
00:41:50.199 --> 00:41:53.420
months to two years, depending upon how severe you are
902
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:56.440
when you start, how much you are engaged with the tools.
903
00:41:56.460 --> 00:42:00.239
All right, guys, that was the last one. And we
904
00:42:00.260 --> 00:42:04.000
just thank everyone who writes into our clients and community group.
905
00:42:04.570 --> 00:42:07.550
We do these episodes once a month. So please, if
906
00:42:07.570 --> 00:42:10.190
you've got a question, go ahead, write into that group.
907
00:42:10.230 --> 00:42:13.969
You can also write into me personally, Raina at drsarah.love.
908
00:42:14.130 --> 00:42:17.630
And I will also bring your questions to Dr. Hensley.
909
00:42:18.090 --> 00:42:20.800
But please go join the Facebook clients and community group.
910
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:25.599
Continue to tune in, like, subscribe, follow, leave us a comment.
911
00:42:25.820 --> 00:42:28.860
And until next time, peace, love, and perspective.