Setting Boundaries, Coping With Cancer, & a Hidden Pregnancy

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Coming up on today's show, we're going to be talking
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about life after cancer treatment, how to have hard conversations
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with your parents, how to step in when your brother
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or sister is hurting your parents, and we're going to
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be talking about grief. Stay tuned. Hey, good folks and
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happy people. I am John, and this is the Dr.
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John Deloney Show. The show for you, about you, and
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with you. We're talking about relationships, relational IQ, your mental health.
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Teaching kids at homeschool. That's turned into a walking disaster.
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We're going to be talking about being a good friend.
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People at the grocery store who seem shocked when they
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get up to the front of the line that, oh,
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they've got to pay. And then they start digging into
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the back of their pants or in their purse. Listen,
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when you go to the grocery store, there's this awesome
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exchange that happens. You take their stuff. And you pay them.
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You give them stuff. So let's get to the front
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of the line and be prepared. Alright, so whatever's going
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on in your heart, in your mind, in your soul,
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we're talking about it here. If you're looking for honesty
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in a world where truth doesn't seem to exist anymore,
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you've come to the right place. If you want a
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first or second opinion, I'm here to walk with you.
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Give me a call at 1-844-693-3291. That's 1-844-693-3291. You can
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also email me at AskJohn.com. at ramsaysolutions.com. That's askjohn at ramsaysolutions.com.
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All right, let's go straight to the phones today. We've
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got a lineup full of good calls. Let's see here.
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Let's go to Joe in British Columbia. Brother Joe, how
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are we doing this morning?
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I'm doing well, thanks.
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Outstanding. How can I help, man?
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So I'm 19 years old, and earlier this year I
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had to have some chemotherapy treatments for a cancer that
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was recurrent. Thankfully, as of right now, I don't need
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any more treatment. But I find that I'm feeling somewhat
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worn out and tired, and I have a tendency to
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suppress how I feel a bit. So I'm just wondering
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if you have any advice for me.
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Yeah, so let's back up a little bit. I've got
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some thoughts here, but I want to hear more about
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your story, man. That sounds like a tragic, frustrating, out
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of nowhere turn here. So how did you find out
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you needed chemotherapy, that you had cancer?
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Yeah, so it started about a year earlier, so in 2019.
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I was just finishing up high school, and then I
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found out that I had testicular cancer, so I had
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to have surgery for that. And then after they monitored
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me for a few months, they realized that it had
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spread to my lungs, so I had to have chemotherapy
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treatments earlier this year, around February and March.
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Joe, can I just stop? without any, I just want
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to have a human moment here. I just want to
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let you know that sucks, man. 18 year olds are
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supposed to be thinking about, um, who they're going to
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marry and their next steps and going to college and
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getting a job. And they should not be worrying about
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testicular cancer and they should not be worrying about their
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mortality at 19 brother. That sucks. And I hate that
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for you, man. Um, walk me through this. The first
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time you realized, Oh man, I've this doesn't feel right,
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something's growing on me that's not supposed to be there,
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I don't feel good, and then you go to the
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doctor and they give you this diagnosis. Walk me through that.
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Yeah, it all happened pretty quick. Like, I went to
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see my family doctor, and then, like, a week later,
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they did some testing, and then it was, like, just, like,
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bombarded with different phone calls that I need to do
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this and that and that, and then, like, basically... I
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think it was just a few days after I found
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out that they had, that they did surgery. It was
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all like really quick. It happened in like maybe a
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two week span from when I first went to my
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family doctor to when I had surgery. So it all,
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it all was kind of just a bit of a
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blur almost.
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So now that it's settled, do they, have they announced
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that you are currently not showing any signs of cancer?
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Yeah, that's, that's correct. So the recent tests that I've
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done have come back clear. So, so now they're just
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kind of monitoring me.
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And, So does that give you some peace in your heart?
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Yeah, it does. There's always the chance that it comes back.
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They don't really say you're cancer-free until five years later.
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Right, right.
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But no, for the most part, I do feel at
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peace about that.
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So you're frustrated, you're exhausted. Talk me through that. How
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are you feeling these days?
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Yeah.
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Like, physically, I'm feeling fine. And I guess that's maybe
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the weird part is that, like, I feel like almost
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like the mental part of it kind of hit me later. Like,
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as I was going through chemotherapy treatments, I was feeling
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obviously terribly, terrible physically, but maybe I didn't really realize
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the mental toll of it. And now I almost feel
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like I'm feeling that part of it once I've come
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through that, if that makes sense.
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Absolutely. So... you got a gift, and it's not a
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gift that anybody wants, and it's not a gift that
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anybody asks for, but you got to lean your head
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over the other side. Most 18 and 19-year-olds don't get
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to understand this idea that they are mortal and that
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tomorrow is not guaranteed for any of us. And when
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I say gift, man, I hesitate to even use that
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word because I know what you went through was traumatic
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and awful, but this sense of whew, this sense of anxiety,
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this low-level hum, this low-level burn of, whoa, man, my
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body might be attacking itself and I might be dying, right?
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You got to experience that, man, and most people don't
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get to see that, especially at your age. Let me
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ask you this. What are you doing now? Are you
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going to school? Are you working? Are you living at
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home in your mom's basement just playing video games and
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eating Cheetos? Like, what are you doing?
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So I've been going... I've been going to school the
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whole time during this. I've been going to university the
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whole time.
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Okay.
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It's all online right now. So I am in my
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mother's basement.
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That's fantastic. So Joe, what do you want to do?
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Who do you want to become? What do you want
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to do professionally? What do you want this cancer to
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have represented 10 years from now, 15 years from now,
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20 years from now?
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Um.
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Well, I'm going to school to become a teacher, so
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that's my goal right now.
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Love it.
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As far as what this looks like 10 years from now,
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I don't know. I guess maybe that me going through
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something difficult helps me understand other people's difficulties and helps
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them maybe walk through similar things or trials of their own.
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So you're experiencing this thing called grief. And grief... is
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heavy and it's not fun and it sucks. It's just
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not fun. But it's something that we all go through
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and that we all experience. And we live in a culture,
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Brother Joe, that doesn't honor grief, that just tries to
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wallpaper over it and says, look, man, you're healed. Now
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go play baseball. And we just try to pass through
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this natural process. And so in a robust, otherwise healthy
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18 to 19-year-old body, And a guy with a character
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like you who wants to go be a teacher, wants
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to help other people. Dude, when you got this diagnosis
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and you mentioned this flurry, you were in it. Your
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body went to fight or flight. And, dude, it went
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to war. It battled and it held up for you
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and it held up with the chemo treatments. And my
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guess is most of the folks who I know who
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got cancer end up making sure everyone around them is
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okay most of the time, right? Did you get a
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lot of calls and texts and oh my goshes, and
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you ended up having to make sure your mom and
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dad or your friends are doing fine? Did that happen
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to you?
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Yeah, that's actually kind of a, yeah, a lot of
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people would like come up to me and be like,
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how are you doing? I'm like, I'm doing all right.
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Yeah, you end up having to take care of them, right?
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That's a common thing, yeah.
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Yeah, I was kind of reassuring them.
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Yeah, yes.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the last person you got to
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really sit down and look in the mirror with and
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experience this near-death car wreck, which was cancer, was you.
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And that's what your body's doing right now, man. It
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is exhaling. It is blowing out the.
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And for people, some people experience that as this low level.
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I hate to use the word because it's so over-dramatized
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and over-diagnosed. But this low-level depression, this low-level literally depression,
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things have just gotten mushed down. Because for a year,
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for two years, you had to push your feelings down.
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You had to push your fears down. And you had
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to just go fight cancer. And you had to do
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what the next doctor said or the next doctor said.
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And you had to recover from surgery. You had to
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recover from chemo. You had to make sure your mom
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was okay and all your buddies are doing good. And
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then you start having these little bitty like, what's tomorrow
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going to be like? When am I going to be
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quote unquote cancer free? All that stuff, right? And now
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the smoke is cleared. The surgery's over. You've been given
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a clean bill. They're going to be watching you every
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couple of months for the next four or five years.
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And now your body is starting to settle into this
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grieving moment. This idea of, whoa, that was close. I
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had the big C. I had the cancer. I'm 19.
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It's not supposed to happen like that. And you're right.
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It's not. Unfortunately, it happens more and more and more,
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and it happens to anybody at any time. Cancer doesn't
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play favorites with anybody. It sucks. It's a demon. It's ugly.
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But you're on the other side of it. So here's
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what I want you to do with this idea of grief.
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And I want you to write yourself a letter congratulating
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yourself for getting through this moment. I want you to
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write a letter. Dear Joe, dude, we made it. And
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I want you to talk about your fears. I want
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you to talk about your frustrations with this. And I
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want you to read this letter to one or two
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of your buddies. I want you to read this letter
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to some people that you trust. It might even have
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to be a counselor if you don't have close buddies.
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I'm assuming that you do, man. But I want you
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to read the letter to them just so that you
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are able to express this and share this with somebody else.
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And then as you make your way through this grieving process,
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you're going to find yourself frustrated. You're going to find
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yourself angry. You're going to find yourself having all these
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emotions that probably you've never experienced before. Make sure you've
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got other people to walk alongside you during this process.
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You can be vulnerable with. You're going to have great,
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great days where you really celebrate being well and healed.
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And you're going to have days when you wake up
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and you just remember the car wreck. You just remember
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that diagnosis day, coming out of surgery, looking at your
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mom and hoping everything's going to be okay. And then
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comes the magic part that David Kessler talks about, finding meaning.
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And over the next two, three, four years, you're going
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to start wrapping your head around this and figuring out
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ways that you can support and care and love other people.
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If it's as a teacher, what a gift, man. You're
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going to have this idea of empathy for your students
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moving forward that most teachers don't have. Because most of
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us don't get to look over the edge and see,
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oh man, none of us are guaranteed tomorrow. We're just not.
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Most of us don't get to do that until we're older.
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And you got to look on the other side. So Joe,
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I am honored to talk to you. Congratulations on getting
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through this nightmare scenario. And our thoughts and prayers are
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with you as you continue to heal and get better.
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And then brother, Go find meaning, man. After you've grieved this,
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go find meaning. Go make meaning. It's going to be awesome.
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All right, let's go to Courtney in Daytona Beach. Courtney,
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what is up?
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Hi, how are you?
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I'm so good. Courtney, how are you?
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Good.
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I'm so excited to have this opportunity to speak with you.
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And me with you. Go for it. What's up?
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Okay, so I need advice on... how to tell my
241
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parents that I had a baby that I placed for adoption.
242
00:12:12.110 --> 00:12:15.889
And the backstory to that is in December of 2018,
243
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I was only 19 years old. I was very unexpected.
244
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I found out as I was having him. And so
245
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we decided that the best route would be adoption. And
246
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that has worked out absolutely beautifully. I can't complain about
247
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that at all. But now I'm kind of stuck in
248
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a place where I think I really need to tell
249
00:12:35.370 --> 00:12:39.169
them in order to keep moving forward, but my boyfriend
250
00:12:39.250 --> 00:12:42.269
isn't as open with it. And so I don't want
251
00:12:42.289 --> 00:12:45.970
to really be too disrespectful against like his wishes on
252
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the topic. Don't really like stuck.
253
00:12:48.090 --> 00:12:52.919
Wow. There's a lot there. Okay. So number one, thank
254
00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:55.620
you for calling. Let's unpack this a little bit. So
255
00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:58.580
a couple of years ago, you had a baby, you
256
00:12:58.659 --> 00:13:01.789
placed it for adoption. And you carry the baby full term,
257
00:13:01.830 --> 00:13:04.730
place it to adoption, and baby's doing well. Are you
258
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still in contact with the adoptive parents, or.
259
00:13:08.049 --> 00:13:10.870
Is your baby— Yes, I have a great relationship. I
260
00:13:10.909 --> 00:13:13.730
talk to her probably once a week, maybe two weeks,
261
00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:15.190
but we have a very good relationship.
262
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Wow, how remarkable. And they're good folks, good parents, and
263
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you feel wonderful about your baby being there?
264
00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:24.940
Yes, I have— my view on it is this was meant
265
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to happen. That's just how everything's worked out very well
266
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on my.
267
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Side of it.
268
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That's incredible. Okay, so is this boyfriend you have, is
269
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that the father of this child?
270
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Yes.
271
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Or is it somebody new? Okay, so y'all are still together?
272
00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:40.419
Yes.
273
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How long have y'all been together?
274
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Three years in December.
275
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Three years. Okay, and so why aren't you married yet?
276
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Why haven't you just said, dude, this is the guy,
277
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let's just call it?
278
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I don't know.
279
00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:55.539
We've honestly talked about it, but... I don't know.
280
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I don't know.
281
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.840
It happens. I think it really has to do with
282
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.659
me because I'm like, I'm teeny young, this and that.
283
00:14:02.330 --> 00:14:06.129
But I have a bunch of, I guess, qualifications of
284
00:14:06.169 --> 00:14:07.909
what I think I need to be before I could
285
00:14:07.929 --> 00:14:09.370
be married is what it is.
286
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Name some of them for me.
287
00:14:11.570 --> 00:14:14.899
I honestly want my debt paid off, which I know
288
00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:17.700
is like, you can do it together, but I also...
289
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:21.299
I'm only 20 now. He's a little bit older. I
290
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:23.139
feel like you need a house for him. You need
291
00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:25.480
to be in the position to buy a house together.
292
00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:28.590
Just little stuff like that, which I know isn't true,
293
00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:30.460
but that's what I think hinders it.
294
00:14:31.370 --> 00:14:33.350
So those things are all real, but you've kind of
295
00:14:33.409 --> 00:14:35.690
knocked everything out of order because you have those three
296
00:14:35.730 --> 00:14:38.210
things and then you have a kid, right? And so
297
00:14:38.230 --> 00:14:42.409
y'all went out of order there. So as a couple,
298
00:14:42.429 --> 00:14:44.870
y'all have experienced a lot of things that most couples
299
00:14:45.350 --> 00:14:48.740
experience after they've committed to one another for the rest
300
00:14:48.779 --> 00:14:51.139
of their lives. How did he feel about this adoption?
301
00:14:53.139 --> 00:14:56.679
Um, he kind of, you know, he was very supportive
302
00:14:56.740 --> 00:14:58.200
and he was there for me and he still has been,
303
00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.379
but I think over time it's been a harder for
304
00:15:01.419 --> 00:15:03.279
him than it has been for me. Like I've coped
305
00:15:03.320 --> 00:15:07.139
with it very well. And he, I don't think has like, it's,
306
00:15:07.460 --> 00:15:09.559
we don't really talk about it. It's kind of uncomfortable
307
00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.070
to talk about with him, which is like, kind of
308
00:15:12.110 --> 00:15:14.070
makes me sad because I find it to be such
309
00:15:14.090 --> 00:15:16.379
a happy thing. Like if I, you know, if it
310
00:15:16.419 --> 00:15:18.250
had to happen, take the time, the joy in it
311
00:15:19.419 --> 00:15:20.639
and kind of go with it. And I feel like
312
00:15:20.659 --> 00:15:22.149
for him, it's a little bit harder.
313
00:15:22.490 --> 00:15:24.429
How is he struggling? What does harder mean?
314
00:15:25.409 --> 00:15:27.629
I just, he doesn't talk about it. Like I'll get
315
00:15:27.769 --> 00:15:30.870
pictures printed out or I got like in, in preparation
316
00:15:30.889 --> 00:15:32.690
of telling my parents, I ordered a photo book and
317
00:15:32.710 --> 00:15:34.389
I was like, here you go. That's one step closer.
318
00:15:34.429 --> 00:15:36.230
And I, he still hasn't looked at it. And I
319
00:15:36.490 --> 00:15:41.990
think it's just hard because he's about, he's a late twenties.
320
00:15:42.029 --> 00:15:44.009
So I think it's for him, it's more like I
321
00:15:44.049 --> 00:15:46.159
should have been ready. I should have been at the
322
00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:47.259
age type of thing.
323
00:15:47.500 --> 00:15:47.720
Yeah.
324
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:51.379
So he is probably experiencing quite a bit of shame.
325
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.590
I had a, I had a child and in my
326
00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:00.049
mid to late twenties and I wasn't quote unquote man
327
00:16:00.070 --> 00:16:03.029
enough to take care of that kid. I, yeah, I.
328
00:16:02.970 --> 00:16:06.350
Think that's exactly what it is. Cause he also doesn't reach,
329
00:16:06.389 --> 00:16:08.820
like he's, we're all friendly with the parents, but he
330
00:16:08.860 --> 00:16:10.460
doesn't go out of his way to like reach out
331
00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:12.059
to them. He, his thing is, you know, if they
332
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:13.799
want to talk to me, they can send me a message.
333
00:16:13.820 --> 00:16:15.139
It's not like in a bad way, but I think
334
00:16:15.179 --> 00:16:16.519
it is. He just doesn't like to.
335
00:16:16.950 --> 00:16:20.049
It sounds pretty immature. I mean, yeah, that sounds pretty
336
00:16:20.070 --> 00:16:22.470
immature for somebody who created a human.
337
00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:22.929
Right.
338
00:16:23.710 --> 00:16:26.750
Um, and again, that goes, that's the responsibility of hooking
339
00:16:26.909 --> 00:16:30.240
up is the result is you could have a human life.
340
00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:30.509
Right.
341
00:16:30.700 --> 00:16:32.539
And then you've got to be able to deal with that.
342
00:16:32.779 --> 00:16:32.940
Right.
343
00:16:33.340 --> 00:16:35.059
So, yeah, it sounds like he's going through a lot. Here's,
344
00:16:35.159 --> 00:16:38.480
here's my thought here. Um, So how long did you
345
00:16:38.500 --> 00:16:39.000
say he's 28?
346
00:16:38.980 --> 00:16:39.220
Yeah.
347
00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.639
Okay, so I want to back out. A 26-year-old hooked
348
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:46.860
up with an 18-year-old, and y'all had a kid. And
349
00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:51.740
I don't want to minimize the magic lovemaking experience that
350
00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:53.919
a 26-year-old and an 18-year-old are going through, but y'all
351
00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:56.799
hooked up, and you had a kid. And you did
352
00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.360
a noble and remarkable thing, and you blessed a family
353
00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:02.799
with that beautiful baby. And they're doing great, and you
354
00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:04.789
are able to see that for the blessing that it is.
355
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:08.200
Good for you. When it comes to telling your parents,
356
00:17:08.920 --> 00:17:10.859
you're not married to this dude. You'll have been dating
357
00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:12.549
for a while. You're not married to this guy, so
358
00:17:12.569 --> 00:17:13.869
I'm going to tell you he didn't get a vote.
359
00:17:15.950 --> 00:17:18.670
And if this secret between you and your family is
360
00:17:18.710 --> 00:17:23.470
hanging there like a giant weight around your neck, which
361
00:17:23.509 --> 00:17:27.150
I'm confident that it is, it's my opinion that secrets
362
00:17:27.210 --> 00:17:30.730
kill people. They drown people. And I would recommend talking
363
00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:32.890
to your folks. There's not going to be a cute
364
00:17:32.930 --> 00:17:38.069
way to do this or a– You know, like making
365
00:17:38.109 --> 00:17:40.829
a book or– this isn't going to be a fun,
366
00:17:40.950 --> 00:17:43.349
beautiful conversation. This is going to be one of those
367
00:17:43.390 --> 00:17:46.730
conversations that you let your parents know ahead of time.
368
00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:50.029
We need to have a hard talk and that we're
369
00:17:50.049 --> 00:17:52.490
going to have a hard conversation. And I'm going to
370
00:17:52.869 --> 00:17:54.950
need you and mom– like mom and dad need you
371
00:17:54.970 --> 00:17:57.720
all to be direct and paying attention to me. And
372
00:17:57.740 --> 00:18:00.069
then we're going to go have breakfast somewhere. And just
373
00:18:00.150 --> 00:18:02.380
let them know. I want you to know they're going
374
00:18:02.390 --> 00:18:05.059
to be devastated. They're going to be heartbroken. Not that
375
00:18:05.619 --> 00:18:07.720
there is a grandkid that they don't know about. That
376
00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:09.059
will be a thing. Here's what they're going to be
377
00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:13.519
devastated about. That their baby girl went through something so
378
00:18:13.579 --> 00:18:15.859
hard and they weren't there for them. They weren't there
379
00:18:15.900 --> 00:18:18.069
for you. Does that make sense?
380
00:18:19.069 --> 00:18:21.910
Yeah. No, I've spoken to some of my older siblings
381
00:18:22.009 --> 00:18:23.589
about it and they said the same thing. They're like,
382
00:18:23.609 --> 00:18:24.970
they're not going to be mad at you. Because I
383
00:18:24.970 --> 00:18:27.190
was like, are they going to be mad? And they're like, no,
384
00:18:27.410 --> 00:18:30.059
they're going to be. you know, probably disappointed or upset
385
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:31.359
that they didn't find out sooner.
386
00:18:31.599 --> 00:18:33.440
Yeah, they're going to be disappointed that they didn't walk
387
00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:36.849
with you through this journey, right? It's a magical transformation.
388
00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:39.950
And then the babies, all the stuff, right? And they're
389
00:18:39.970 --> 00:18:42.390
going to probably say things like, well, we would have helped.
390
00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:45.549
And now they're going to deal with somebody else raising,
391
00:18:46.269 --> 00:18:49.809
in their mind, their grandkid, right? And that their teenage
392
00:18:49.849 --> 00:18:52.609
daughter had to make this heavy, heavy decision all on
393
00:18:52.650 --> 00:18:56.349
their own. But here's the thing. It is what it is.
394
00:18:56.940 --> 00:18:59.259
So I want you to not go into this conversation
395
00:18:59.299 --> 00:19:04.769
with any sort of fantasy, any sort of mythological. There's
396
00:19:04.789 --> 00:19:07.049
going to be confetti come down. Everybody's going to hug
397
00:19:07.089 --> 00:19:08.910
and they're going to it's just going to be a
398
00:19:08.910 --> 00:19:11.730
hard conversation. Gear yourself up for it. But the hard
399
00:19:11.769 --> 00:19:15.490
conversation is still the right conversation. And it sounds like
400
00:19:15.529 --> 00:19:19.630
you're tired of the secret. And I'm telling you right
401
00:19:19.670 --> 00:19:22.289
now is no matter how hard this conversation goes, you're
402
00:19:22.309 --> 00:19:24.049
going to feel a burden lifted off your heart and
403
00:19:24.089 --> 00:19:24.390
your soul.
404
00:19:25.230 --> 00:19:27.069
It's definitely hard. I feel like I'm living, like, two
405
00:19:27.109 --> 00:19:29.430
lives because I get pictures, I get updates, and it's like,
406
00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:32.079
as of right now, it's like I can't share that
407
00:19:32.119 --> 00:19:33.730
with them, and I find so much joy in it.
408
00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:34.799
That's exactly right.
409
00:19:35.259 --> 00:19:38.440
In a way, too, to know that I did make
410
00:19:38.460 --> 00:19:41.519
the right choice because I have such an involvement still,
411
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:43.430
and it's not like I made this decision and then
412
00:19:43.470 --> 00:19:45.609
I never heard about it again.
413
00:19:45.630 --> 00:19:49.309
That's right. Would your adoptive parents, are they open to
414
00:19:49.349 --> 00:19:49.970
your parents' visibility?
415
00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.740
We've kind of discussed it and she left it, the
416
00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.660
mom left it to if he ever asked about them.
417
00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:02.039
He would be the one to do it. She wouldn't
418
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:02.940
want to push it on him.
419
00:20:03.220 --> 00:20:06.740
Okay. I think that's really wise and good for her. Yeah,
420
00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:09.230
it looks like you picked a wonderful family. So the
421
00:20:09.250 --> 00:20:11.089
challenge for your parents is they're going to want to
422
00:20:11.130 --> 00:20:13.069
see the baby and they're going to want to see
423
00:20:13.630 --> 00:20:16.509
their likeness represented in their grandkids. There's just going to
424
00:20:16.529 --> 00:20:18.029
be a piece of their heart out running around in
425
00:20:18.049 --> 00:20:20.970
the universe that they can't see and hug and touch, right?
426
00:20:21.599 --> 00:20:24.059
And so just know that's going to be hard, but
427
00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:27.539
also know that it's, again, it's the right conversation to have.
428
00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:31.559
And so here's the steps in order. Number one, I
429
00:20:31.619 --> 00:20:33.700
would let them know ahead of time, don't just show
430
00:20:33.720 --> 00:20:35.180
up at their house one afternoon and drop a bomb
431
00:20:35.259 --> 00:20:36.859
on them. Let them know, hey, we need to have
432
00:20:36.900 --> 00:20:40.019
a hard conversation and I'm going to come to your
433
00:20:40.059 --> 00:20:41.200
house and we're going to do this or we're going
434
00:20:41.220 --> 00:20:43.180
to go get pancakes together and we're going to have
435
00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:45.299
this hard conversation. You know what they're going to think?
436
00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:47.599
They're going to think that you're pregnant now and they're
437
00:20:47.619 --> 00:20:48.920
going to think that you need to have a quick
438
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.309
shotgun wedding with this older guy that they may or
439
00:20:51.349 --> 00:20:54.109
may not like. They're not going to be expecting that
440
00:20:54.170 --> 00:20:56.470
you already had a baby and the baby is one
441
00:20:56.490 --> 00:20:59.089
and a half or two years old and doing well
442
00:20:59.230 --> 00:21:01.410
with an adoptive family. So you're going to surprise them.
443
00:21:01.589 --> 00:21:05.200
Understand they're going to be heartbroken. They're going to cry
444
00:21:05.259 --> 00:21:07.380
and that doesn't mean what you did is not the
445
00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:13.000
right thing. And then be willing to heal that relationship
446
00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:14.819
with your parents. They're going to feel like they let
447
00:21:14.859 --> 00:21:16.759
you down. They're going to feel like you let them down.
448
00:21:16.779 --> 00:21:18.579
It's just going to be messy. It's just going to
449
00:21:18.599 --> 00:21:22.150
be messy. And messy and hard doesn't mean it's the
450
00:21:22.170 --> 00:21:24.890
wrong thing. You're going to have to grieve this with
451
00:21:24.930 --> 00:21:26.849
your parents. Here's the deal. Your parents had a picture
452
00:21:26.869 --> 00:21:29.549
in their head of what the grandkid was going to
453
00:21:29.589 --> 00:21:32.230
be like, the first grandkid, and they've imagined it. They're
454
00:21:32.250 --> 00:21:35.119
going to imagine themselves as buying all this shenanigans for
455
00:21:35.130 --> 00:21:38.630
this baby, right? And coming over and... They're going to
456
00:21:38.650 --> 00:21:41.190
have to reframe their picture. They're going to have to
457
00:21:41.230 --> 00:21:45.319
grieve it. They're going to have to grieve this new
458
00:21:45.380 --> 00:21:47.400
world that they're in, that you're going to just drop
459
00:21:47.539 --> 00:21:49.720
on them at a Denny's at 9 o'clock on some
460
00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:52.599
Saturday morning. You're going to have to grieve a new
461
00:21:52.640 --> 00:21:55.690
relationship with your parents. You're also going to have to
462
00:21:55.750 --> 00:22:00.789
grieve a transitioning relationship with this guy. You're 20. He's 28.
463
00:22:00.789 --> 00:22:04.130
He's almost got a decade on you. At some point,
464
00:22:04.190 --> 00:22:05.650
you're going to have to decide, this is the guy
465
00:22:05.710 --> 00:22:07.829
for me or not. He's going to have to deal
466
00:22:07.869 --> 00:22:11.490
with the grief of his child. He's going to have
467
00:22:11.549 --> 00:22:15.559
to deal with the grief of, I should have been there.
468
00:22:15.900 --> 00:22:18.000
I should have raised my own kid, and I didn't.
469
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:20.599
And that doesn't mean that was the wrong thing, but
470
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.599
he's going to have his own thoughts. And the more
471
00:22:22.660 --> 00:22:25.789
he hides from that stuff, the deeper that wound's going
472
00:22:25.809 --> 00:22:27.750
to get, the more that infection's going to fester, and
473
00:22:27.769 --> 00:22:30.250
it's just going to end up spraying all the people
474
00:22:30.289 --> 00:22:31.490
he loves too. So he's going to have to do
475
00:22:31.529 --> 00:22:33.829
his own work. And so I keep talking about the
476
00:22:33.849 --> 00:22:35.650
first two calls here. I've talked about grief, and I've
477
00:22:35.690 --> 00:22:38.410
talked about grief, and I've talked about grief really quickly.
478
00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:43.269
Let's talk about grief for a second. Kubler-Ross came up
479
00:22:43.289 --> 00:22:46.210
with this model years and years ago, back in the
480
00:22:46.230 --> 00:22:48.630
late 60s, early 70s. She wrote this book on death
481
00:22:48.690 --> 00:22:50.950
and dying, and it was really a discussion. This book
482
00:22:50.970 --> 00:22:54.619
was a discussion of the five stages of grief she
483
00:22:54.660 --> 00:22:58.720
came up with, and they are denial, anger, bargaining, depression,
484
00:22:58.980 --> 00:23:02.950
and acceptance. So when somebody dies in your life, you
485
00:23:03.049 --> 00:23:05.470
deny it. Then you get angry. You get pissed off.
486
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.460
And then you start bargaining with God. You start bargaining
487
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.960
with the people around you. I'll be nicer. And then
488
00:23:11.019 --> 00:23:13.240
you go through this depression. You just get in that
489
00:23:13.299 --> 00:23:16.940
black hole of grief that if you've lost somebody, you
490
00:23:16.980 --> 00:23:19.029
know what I'm talking about. And then you get to
491
00:23:19.069 --> 00:23:22.349
the acceptance stage where you start to re-bloom. You start
492
00:23:22.369 --> 00:23:24.809
to regrow. You just realize this is what this is.
493
00:23:25.369 --> 00:23:28.910
And we often think about, you know, death. That's the
494
00:23:28.930 --> 00:23:32.559
thing that we grieve, right? Kubler-Ross, these stages were initially
495
00:23:32.940 --> 00:23:37.000
designed for people who weren't grieving the losses of loved
496
00:23:37.059 --> 00:23:40.059
ones or broken relationships. It was designed for people who
497
00:23:40.099 --> 00:23:43.279
were grieving their own impending death. She was with people
498
00:23:43.299 --> 00:23:47.160
who were dying. And then in 2019, David Kessler, who
499
00:23:47.259 --> 00:23:49.099
studied with her, I think he was one of her
500
00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.500
research assistants, he wrote one of my top five most
501
00:23:52.539 --> 00:23:56.599
important books of my life. He wrote, it's called Finding Meaning,
502
00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:59.240
the Sixth Stages of Grief. And we'll put that in
503
00:23:59.259 --> 00:24:01.500
the show notes here. we'll put both these books in
504
00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:03.359
the show notes, but if you have to pick up
505
00:24:03.559 --> 00:24:06.079
one book over the next few months, pick up Finding
506
00:24:06.140 --> 00:24:08.440
Meaning by David Kessler, especially in these times, it's a
507
00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:13.069
remarkable book on grief is so much bigger than somebody's
508
00:24:13.109 --> 00:24:17.289
dying or you died. Grief is about any sort of
509
00:24:17.890 --> 00:24:19.509
what you thought was going to happen is not going
510
00:24:19.529 --> 00:24:21.690
to happen, right? You thought you were going to be
511
00:24:21.710 --> 00:24:24.210
an astronaut. It didn't work out that way. You thought
512
00:24:24.230 --> 00:24:26.009
you were going to meet some romantic prince and he
513
00:24:26.029 --> 00:24:28.630
turned out to be an abusive jerk. You thought that
514
00:24:29.130 --> 00:24:32.049
My picture of my first grandkid is going to be this,
515
00:24:32.970 --> 00:24:34.849
we're going to hold this baby and it's going to
516
00:24:34.869 --> 00:24:37.910
be an easy birth and my daughter's going to be
517
00:24:38.059 --> 00:24:40.819
healthy and she's going to, the father of this child
518
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:42.680
is going to be this wonderful guy and he's going
519
00:24:42.700 --> 00:24:44.900
to be there. And then all of a sudden you
520
00:24:44.940 --> 00:24:48.750
find out that your first grandkid was adopted underneath you.
521
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:51.019
You didn't know. And it's somewhere else. All of those
522
00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:54.369
things are grief. It's just that the picture you thought
523
00:24:54.410 --> 00:24:57.289
was going to be your tomorrow has changed. And the
524
00:24:57.390 --> 00:25:01.410
longer we go through life not acknowledging that, the more
525
00:25:01.430 --> 00:25:03.730
it festers within us. There becomes a gap, and we
526
00:25:03.789 --> 00:25:07.119
fill that gap with all kinds of addictive behaviors, busyness,
527
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:12.839
numbing behaviors, drinking, all kinds of crazy things we run around, right?
528
00:25:13.180 --> 00:25:16.059
And so what Kessler brings to the table here is
529
00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:20.490
after acceptance, right, after you just make peace with it,
530
00:25:21.549 --> 00:25:25.410
that's not enough. There's this next step, this sixth step,
531
00:25:26.250 --> 00:25:28.990
and that is What are you going to do as
532
00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:31.910
a result of, right? Are you going to become an
533
00:25:32.069 --> 00:25:35.049
advocate for adoptive families? Are you going to be an
534
00:25:35.230 --> 00:25:39.309
advocate for parents having great relationships with their teenage kids
535
00:25:39.670 --> 00:25:41.279
so that they feel safe to come home and talk
536
00:25:41.319 --> 00:25:45.420
to you? Are you going to become somebody who is
537
00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:49.319
really involved in AA because you lost a loved one
538
00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:53.680
to alcoholism? or drug abuse, whatever the thing is, how
539
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:55.160
are you going to make meaning? How are you going
540
00:25:55.180 --> 00:25:57.809
to transform your heart and the hearts of those around
541
00:25:57.869 --> 00:26:01.230
you because you went through this, right? And an important
542
00:26:01.250 --> 00:26:04.509
thing about these stages is they're not linear, right? Sometimes
543
00:26:04.529 --> 00:26:07.789
people die and you get angry and then you deny
544
00:26:07.829 --> 00:26:09.789
it and then you go into the black hole or
545
00:26:09.829 --> 00:26:11.950
somebody passes away and you go into the black hole
546
00:26:12.009 --> 00:26:15.089
or you just randomly get dumped and whoosh, you feel
547
00:26:15.130 --> 00:26:20.789
like you have just been stuck underwater, right? Eventually, You
548
00:26:20.809 --> 00:26:24.130
begin to breathe again. If you've got people walking alongside you,
549
00:26:24.210 --> 00:26:27.990
eventually you get to exhale again. The sun comes up.
550
00:26:29.769 --> 00:26:33.299
The buds that were broken off begin to bloom. The
551
00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:36.759
world turns green again. And here's the thing. Here's a
552
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:40.039
great quote from this Kessler book. Here it is. When
553
00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:42.259
we are grieving, we want to stay in the harbor.
554
00:26:43.299 --> 00:26:45.720
It's a good place to be for a while. It's
555
00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:49.250
where we refuel, rebuild, repair. But in the same way
556
00:26:49.349 --> 00:26:52.069
ships are meant to sail, we are meant to eventually
557
00:26:52.170 --> 00:26:55.589
leave our safe harbor to take the risk of loving again,
558
00:26:56.029 --> 00:26:59.009
to find new adventures, to live a life after loss,
559
00:26:59.410 --> 00:27:04.140
and maybe even to help another, right? This is what
560
00:27:04.200 --> 00:27:08.039
finding meaning is about. This is what stopping. We thought
561
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:09.660
2020 was going to be this thing and this thing
562
00:27:09.700 --> 00:27:12.460
and this thing and this thing. It's not. I thought
563
00:27:12.480 --> 00:27:13.750
I was going to get to have this awesome new
564
00:27:13.769 --> 00:27:17.349
job promotion and I'm not. I'm homeschooling my kid. I've
565
00:27:17.369 --> 00:27:19.410
got a bandana on that I take off just for
566
00:27:19.430 --> 00:27:21.210
this Zoom meeting, and then I put it back on.
567
00:27:21.930 --> 00:27:23.690
I've just got to grieve what I thought was going
568
00:27:23.710 --> 00:27:25.910
to be so that I can come to the present
569
00:27:25.930 --> 00:27:28.269
and deal with what's now. And then over time, I'm
570
00:27:28.289 --> 00:27:30.849
going to accept where I'm at. I'm going to sometimes
571
00:27:30.910 --> 00:27:32.950
bite down on my mouthpiece and just go in swinging.
572
00:27:33.430 --> 00:27:35.349
Other times, I'm going to let the things go that
573
00:27:35.369 --> 00:27:37.589
I can't control. And over time, we're going to make meaning.
574
00:27:37.849 --> 00:27:39.269
We're going to make meaning, and we're going to continue
575
00:27:39.289 --> 00:27:41.710
to live the story the best way that we can.
576
00:27:42.569 --> 00:27:45.230
So thank you so, so much for that call, Courtney.
577
00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:50.059
I'll be thinking about you. I would love, love, love. Courtney,
578
00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:53.839
call me back after that conversation with your folks. If
579
00:27:53.900 --> 00:27:55.220
all three of you want to call me back, I'd
580
00:27:55.240 --> 00:27:56.960
love to talk to your parents too. I want to
581
00:27:57.009 --> 00:27:58.809
hear how that conversation goes. I want to hear how
582
00:27:58.849 --> 00:28:02.069
y'all work together to make a plan for tomorrow. Thank
583
00:28:02.089 --> 00:28:03.750
you so, so much for the call. Let's take one
584
00:28:03.769 --> 00:28:07.430
more call. Let's go to Jessica in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Jessica,
585
00:28:07.470 --> 00:28:10.089
how are you? Hi, John.
586
00:28:10.190 --> 00:28:11.170
I'm good. How are you?
587
00:28:11.309 --> 00:28:13.369
Outstanding. Outstanding. How can I help?
588
00:28:14.950 --> 00:28:19.470
Hi, so I am calling because I have a sibling,
589
00:28:19.490 --> 00:28:22.509
a brother that basically came home from college with a
590
00:28:22.529 --> 00:28:25.769
mental breakdown. It's now been five and a half years.
591
00:28:25.809 --> 00:28:31.069
He's been living with my parents and basically is making
592
00:28:31.109 --> 00:28:35.690
their life hell. The rest of the siblings and I
593
00:28:35.789 --> 00:28:40.650
have talked about possibly doing like an intervention because my
594
00:28:40.710 --> 00:28:43.440
parents don't know how to set boundaries with them. and
595
00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:45.819
just telling them how we feel about the situation because
596
00:28:45.839 --> 00:28:48.859
we also feel like we're losing them. So I just
597
00:28:48.900 --> 00:28:50.339
thought I'd give you a call and see if you
598
00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:52.880
had any advice, if that's even something we should do,
599
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:55.359
if we should just sit back and watch this unfold
600
00:28:55.779 --> 00:28:57.789
for the next who knows how long, or if we
601
00:28:57.829 --> 00:29:00.049
should tell them how we feel and maybe help them
602
00:29:00.309 --> 00:29:01.289
with some resources.
603
00:29:01.670 --> 00:29:04.130
Yeah. So tell me when you say mental breakdown five
604
00:29:04.150 --> 00:29:07.349
and a half years ago, was it just a anxiety fit?
605
00:29:07.369 --> 00:29:09.710
I don't like taking tests. Is he schizophrenic? Like paint
606
00:29:09.730 --> 00:29:10.369
me a picture of that.
607
00:29:12.619 --> 00:29:16.140
Well, basically, he was working and doing school a lot
608
00:29:16.339 --> 00:29:19.660
and didn't sleep, and so mentally couldn't take all of
609
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:25.480
the pressure. Misbehaved a little bit, not terrible, but the
610
00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:28.009
school basically released him to, you can go home. We
611
00:29:28.029 --> 00:29:32.829
don't need you to finish your semester. And then found
612
00:29:32.970 --> 00:29:36.490
out through various different things that he does have some
613
00:29:36.509 --> 00:29:40.890
mental health disorders. He has a personality disorder. like borderline,
614
00:29:40.910 --> 00:29:46.869
and he does have anxiety and depression on top of that.
615
00:29:46.990 --> 00:29:50.099
That's been medicated, but this summer he went to chase
616
00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.440
this girl who didn't like him on his medication, and
617
00:29:52.480 --> 00:29:54.680
so now we've seen a decline in his mental health
618
00:29:55.420 --> 00:29:58.029
as well as there's a lot of guilt on my
619
00:29:58.069 --> 00:30:01.470
parents' part. He went through some medical trauma earlier in
620
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:03.319
his life. And so I think they feel like they
621
00:30:03.339 --> 00:30:06.259
have to provide him whatever he wants. Yeah.
622
00:30:06.700 --> 00:30:10.000
So here's the thing. You're right on. You and your
623
00:30:10.039 --> 00:30:15.720
brothers and sisters are right on. There comes a point
624
00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:21.769
when our loved ones, our brother, our sister, sometimes it's
625
00:30:21.809 --> 00:30:24.849
our dad or our mom. There comes a moment when
626
00:30:25.960 --> 00:30:30.009
Our loved one becomes a grown man who's making my
627
00:30:30.049 --> 00:30:35.390
mom cry. Right? And yes, he's my brother. Yes, I
628
00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:39.410
love him. Yes, he's got some challenges. Yes, he went
629
00:30:39.450 --> 00:30:43.990
through some nonsense, some crap as a kid. But right now,
630
00:30:44.309 --> 00:30:47.829
he's a 25-year-old or 26-year-old who's breaking up my parents' marriage.
631
00:30:48.910 --> 00:30:51.950
Who is keeping my dad from sleeping a full night
632
00:30:51.990 --> 00:30:55.069
of sleep. Who is playing my mom like an accordion.
633
00:30:55.720 --> 00:30:58.920
and making my mom's hair turn gray and making her cry.
634
00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:02.599
And there is a moment as a parent, do you
635
00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.400
have kids of your own?
636
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:04.619
Yes.
637
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:06.619
Okay, so you know, I'm just talking to you parent
638
00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:08.880
to parent here. There's moments when we get so far
639
00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:10.920
down our own rabbit hole trying to care for our
640
00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:12.990
kids that we lose the forest from the trees, right?
641
00:31:13.829 --> 00:31:18.210
And what a, I like your word, what an intervention
642
00:31:18.250 --> 00:31:20.650
can do for your parents is let them know that
643
00:31:21.269 --> 00:31:23.609
they're not alone. You and your brothers and sisters can
644
00:31:23.670 --> 00:31:27.740
pull them out of whatever river they're drowning in, help
645
00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:30.559
dry them off, and then offer them some resources. But
646
00:31:30.789 --> 00:31:32.750
probably the most important resource you're going to offer them
647
00:31:33.509 --> 00:31:37.809
is that you've got their back, right? That you love them,
648
00:31:37.869 --> 00:31:39.910
you support them, you're going to teach them how to
649
00:31:39.950 --> 00:31:42.509
draw boundaries, you're going to support whatever boundaries they draw.
650
00:31:43.170 --> 00:31:45.559
And that might have ugly consequences for your brother for
651
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:51.250
a season, right? And people with borderline personality disorder, They
652
00:31:51.309 --> 00:31:55.630
are brilliant and lovely and hilarious and hellacious to work
653
00:31:55.690 --> 00:31:59.380
with because you are the greatest person who has ever
654
00:31:59.460 --> 00:32:02.339
lived until you are the worst person who has ever lived, right?
655
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:04.309
Exactly.
656
00:32:04.349 --> 00:32:06.869
Mom and dad are the most wonderful people until they
657
00:32:06.890 --> 00:32:09.170
have ruined my life and you guys suck and I
658
00:32:09.349 --> 00:32:11.730
hate you. And I'm just going to quit taking my
659
00:32:11.769 --> 00:32:14.039
meds and go off because she loves me more. And
660
00:32:14.079 --> 00:32:15.839
this girl is going to be the greatest girl who
661
00:32:16.119 --> 00:32:19.640
ever lived until she's not, right? And that's such as
662
00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:22.599
the up and downs of folks who are on borderline
663
00:32:22.619 --> 00:32:28.250
personality disorder and don't work really, really hard to come
664
00:32:28.289 --> 00:32:32.470
to terms with these rollercoaster fireball emotions that rage through
665
00:32:32.490 --> 00:32:36.039
their bodies. And so, yes, at the end of the day,
666
00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:38.339
you need to get your parents out of a burning house.
667
00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:41.039
And they need to hear love and support from you
668
00:32:41.339 --> 00:32:45.700
and from your siblings. My recommendation for that would be
669
00:32:45.740 --> 00:32:47.579
to let them know, hey, we're going to set up
670
00:32:47.619 --> 00:32:49.140
a time that we all want to meet, whether that's
671
00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:53.150
in person or because of the current medical climate. We're
672
00:32:53.170 --> 00:32:57.730
going to do a Zoom meeting. And somebody that they trust,
673
00:32:57.869 --> 00:32:59.990
there's always that one sibling that kind of takes the lead.
674
00:33:00.029 --> 00:33:02.509
It might be you that they said, hey, call the
675
00:33:02.529 --> 00:33:05.049
knucklehead on the radio and see what he has to say.
676
00:33:05.579 --> 00:33:08.660
But whoever the brother or sister is that has their
677
00:33:08.720 --> 00:33:12.880
trust the most can call in and say, listen, we
678
00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:15.180
love you. And you've got to start drawing some boundaries
679
00:33:15.460 --> 00:33:18.509
because we're worried about you and mom. We're worried about
680
00:33:18.549 --> 00:33:21.220
you and dad. And we love you. And we don't
681
00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:24.609
want to see our brother hurting y'all anymore. So how
682
00:33:24.630 --> 00:33:25.150
does that hit you?
683
00:33:27.009 --> 00:33:31.269
It's just validation, I think, because we've been watching this
684
00:33:31.369 --> 00:33:33.650
unfold for the last five years. So we're very.
685
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:37.880
We feel like we've lost something, too, with our parents,
686
00:33:38.019 --> 00:33:41.740
that they're so focused on him and unable to see
687
00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:43.079
how it's hurting everyone else.
688
00:33:43.259 --> 00:33:47.079
Well, and here's the thing. Beware of this. After five
689
00:33:47.099 --> 00:33:50.000
and a half years, caring for their hurting son has
690
00:33:50.019 --> 00:33:54.970
become an identity for your parents. They have found meaning
691
00:33:54.990 --> 00:33:58.410
in their hurt, and they have found meaning in their pain.
692
00:33:58.970 --> 00:34:01.069
For parents who, like you said, he had medical trauma
693
00:34:01.130 --> 00:34:03.630
as a kid. He's probably experienced some hard things as
694
00:34:03.670 --> 00:34:08.590
a kid. Sometimes this lashing that parents subject themselves to,
695
00:34:08.659 --> 00:34:11.579
especially with their adult kids, when they won't draw boundaries,
696
00:34:11.980 --> 00:34:15.199
there's some weird, ugly, tiny demon in the back of
697
00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.579
their hearts and minds that say, you deserve this. This
698
00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:23.489
is because of. And so expect some resistance. Expect some, yeah,
699
00:34:23.570 --> 00:34:27.030
but somebody needs, like, expect that. And just know going in,
700
00:34:27.750 --> 00:34:29.530
all four of you, is there four of you, right,
701
00:34:29.710 --> 00:34:31.570
that y'all go in as a united front that says,
702
00:34:31.630 --> 00:34:34.780
mom and dad, this is enough. This is enough, and
703
00:34:34.800 --> 00:34:37.639
we're going to help you draw boundaries. So whatever resources
704
00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:42.300
y'all can come up with, either locally for him, really
705
00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:45.469
the boundaries for a 25-year-old are going to be you've
706
00:34:45.489 --> 00:34:48.269
got three months, and then you're out. And then y'all
707
00:34:48.289 --> 00:34:50.469
need to rotate going to visit mom and dad or
708
00:34:50.530 --> 00:34:52.489
calling mom and dad and letting them know that when
709
00:34:52.510 --> 00:34:58.090
they get this torrent of borderline response, which is going
710
00:34:58.110 --> 00:35:01.420
to be you're going to make me homeless. You're the worst.
711
00:35:01.460 --> 00:35:03.199
You're throwing me out of my ear. You don't care
712
00:35:03.219 --> 00:35:05.519
about me. You don't love me. All that stuff, partridge
713
00:35:05.539 --> 00:35:08.219
in a pear tree that your parents are constantly being
714
00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:10.460
filled up. You're holding their arms up in the desert
715
00:35:10.900 --> 00:35:14.090
as they're desperate for water and you're helping them out
716
00:35:14.110 --> 00:35:15.730
and get through this season. And then they've got to
717
00:35:15.750 --> 00:35:17.369
kick them out. They got to change the locks on
718
00:35:17.389 --> 00:35:19.369
the house. If it gets to that, probably he'll throw
719
00:35:19.389 --> 00:35:21.769
a temper tantrum and take off. And then they're going
720
00:35:21.789 --> 00:35:23.829
to have to hold boundaries. And the boundaries might be
721
00:35:23.869 --> 00:35:26.309
when you get a job, we'll help you out. Um,
722
00:35:26.809 --> 00:35:29.329
If you need support buying your medication, if you can
723
00:35:29.389 --> 00:35:31.230
show us that you're on your medication, we'll help you out,
724
00:35:31.260 --> 00:35:33.199
whatever that's going to look like. But I trust you
725
00:35:33.219 --> 00:35:35.280
and your brothers and sisters do that. But yeah, 100%,
726
00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:37.719
you've got my blessing. Y'all need to step in, help
727
00:35:37.739 --> 00:35:40.980
your mom and dad out of the river. They're drowning.
728
00:35:41.940 --> 00:35:44.489
They've made an identity out of treading water, and it's
729
00:35:44.530 --> 00:35:46.489
time for folks who love them to step in and help.
730
00:35:47.570 --> 00:35:50.369
What a great call. Thank you so much. Jessica, you're
731
00:35:50.389 --> 00:35:52.329
a saint, and you and your brothers and sisters are awesome.
732
00:35:52.530 --> 00:35:54.449
I'd love to know how that conversation goes, so please
733
00:35:54.489 --> 00:35:56.820
call me back. Let me know how the intervention goes,
734
00:35:56.980 --> 00:35:58.940
how your parents take it, if they take it well.
735
00:35:58.960 --> 00:36:00.119
If they don't take it well, I'd love to hear
736
00:36:00.219 --> 00:36:02.739
how they are doing. So as we wrap up today's show,
737
00:36:03.639 --> 00:36:05.760
here's the thing. I talk a lot about the greatest
738
00:36:05.820 --> 00:36:07.690
man this, the greatest man that, and now I'm starting
739
00:36:07.710 --> 00:36:10.329
to get the direct messages and the Instagrams and the
740
00:36:10.349 --> 00:36:12.690
YouTube comments saying like, oh, I do get the joke.
741
00:36:15.730 --> 00:36:19.110
I haven't been totally honest. Sometimes I have. Sometimes I haven't.
742
00:36:19.429 --> 00:36:21.909
This is for real. This is for real. I think
743
00:36:21.949 --> 00:36:25.030
these are a few of the greatest songwriters working today,
744
00:36:25.170 --> 00:36:26.849
and I mean this. And if you know who they are,
745
00:36:26.869 --> 00:36:29.269
I hope you can hear the sincerity in my voice.
746
00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:31.329
I'll be back to being a clown on the next podcast,
747
00:36:31.710 --> 00:36:37.519
the next YouTubes. But listen, these two brothers are songwriters extraordinaires.
748
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:42.039
They're probably part prophets. They are speaking truth into the
749
00:36:42.079 --> 00:36:45.369
world in a way that only they can. This is
750
00:36:45.389 --> 00:36:47.690
one of the greatest songs literally ever written. And every
751
00:36:47.710 --> 00:36:50.349
time I hear it, I have to stop and catch
752
00:36:50.389 --> 00:36:52.530
myself because I'll get choked up a little bit. This
753
00:36:52.570 --> 00:36:55.769
is from the Gleam 2 record. It's written by the
754
00:36:55.889 --> 00:36:59.170
Avett brothers and it's called Murder in the City. And
755
00:36:59.190 --> 00:37:01.840
the words go like this. If I get murdered in
756
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:05.699
the city, don't go revenging in my name. One person
757
00:37:05.739 --> 00:37:08.559
dead from such is plenty. No need to go get
758
00:37:08.619 --> 00:37:11.599
locked away. When I leave your arms, the things that
759
00:37:11.659 --> 00:37:14.909
I think of, no need to get over alarmed. I'm
760
00:37:14.949 --> 00:37:18.429
coming home. If I get murdered in the city, go
761
00:37:18.489 --> 00:37:21.320
read the letter in my desk. I'm getting goosebumps now.
762
00:37:22.019 --> 00:37:25.340
Don't bother with all my belongings. Pay attention to the list.
763
00:37:26.019 --> 00:37:29.300
Make sure my sister knows I loved her. God almighty,
764
00:37:29.340 --> 00:37:32.199
I get choked up every time. Make sure my sister
765
00:37:32.239 --> 00:37:35.269
knows I loved her. Make sure my mother knows the same.
766
00:37:36.289 --> 00:37:40.530
Always remember there was nothing worth sharing like the love
767
00:37:40.590 --> 00:37:44.329
that let us share our name. Always remember there was
768
00:37:44.489 --> 00:37:48.170
nothing worth sharing like the love that let us share
769
00:37:48.309 --> 00:37:53.670
our name. This is the Dr. John Deloney Show.