Jeff Russo Interview, Severence, Our First Events in the 70s, and Business Advice | ep #105

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Hi, I'm Kitit Bowen.
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My name is Ryan t Husk, and this is the
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Creation Entertainment Podcast.
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We're so glad you've joined us up.
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First, Adam Mahlan interviews composer Jeff Russo, a huge get
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for us. We're really excited about this interview. They talk
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about Jeff Russo's early career as well as more recent
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shows where he's composing for paramounts of Star Trek as
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well as Fargo. We're gonna love this interview.
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And on the pop culture Cinema squad, Adam and I
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are going to talk about the season finale of Severance,
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the Apple TV series season two. Hoo boy guys, it
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was a doozy. We cannot wait for season three.
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And in the Creation Looks Back segment, Adam and Gary
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talk about their early days doing conventions and the different
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venues that they ended up going to.
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Stay tuned is great.
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And next we'll have a fun segment in which I
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talk with Gary Berman, co CEO of Creation Entertainment. He's
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going to give you all kinds of really cool and
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important business advice. You're not gonna want to miss this
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because he's been doing this for over fifty years.
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Trust me.
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It's gonna be a good show.
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It already is actually, and one more thing to talk
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to you about. Supernatural fans, they've got something to look
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forward to, right Yeah.
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So stay tuned after the podcast and we'll talk about
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the next upcoming The Road So Far, the.
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Road Ahead Show, all that and so much more on
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the Creation Entertainment Podcast.
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Recently, I had the opportunity to interview Jeff Russo, the
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prolific composer, songwriter and guitarist, vocalist and music producer of
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so many different projects, and of course known to Star
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Trek fans for his work on Star Trek Discovery, Star
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Trek Maccard and Star Trek Strange New Worlds, as well
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as many other projects including for all Mankind, Ron Morris's
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show Fargo, Legion, and the upcoming Alien Earth for amazing
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director and writer Noah Hawley. He's also the founding member
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of the seminal nineties rock band Tonic as well as
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the Americana band Low Stars, and he won a Primetime
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Emmy Award for his work on Fargo. In my conversation
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with Jeff, we covered a wide range of subjects, not
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the least of which was his incredible work on Star
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Trek and his canon of work for Noah Hawley, but
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also sort of the foundations of his work in raw,
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his love of the guitar, instrumentation and orchestration, and his
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many influences, as well as a few tantalizing hints of
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upcoming projects. I hope you enjoyed my interview with jeff
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as much as I enjoyed having a wonderful conversation with him.
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Jeff Russo, Welcome to Creation Entertainment's Interview podcast.
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Thanks for having me.
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Great to have you here, Jeffrey, And we've actually worked
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with you several times at our Vegas show and it's
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a pleasure to have you with us. And you've had
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a fascinating career and I think most of our viewers
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are pretty familiar with it. But for the sake of
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those that haven't, if you don't mind, we'll do a
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biographical review and sort of start with kind of your
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musical roots. I won't get too personal with you, but
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where did your love of music come from? I know
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you're really fluent in a lot of instruments, but I
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know guitar is a special love for you. How did
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you kind of first get involved with music. What sort
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of training did you have and how did you become
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obsessed with guitar, which is such a wonderful instrument.
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Well, first, I don't really know how to answer that question.
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I'm not sure.
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How the love of what where the love of music
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came from for me. You know, I grew up just
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in a pretty typical household. My dad liked classical music.
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My mom listened to sort of forties and fifties music,
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but I don't really actually remember her listening to music
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as much as I remember my dad playing playing classical
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music in the house. But I, you know, I was
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a typical kid, you know, liking pop music of the time.
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And I think in the.
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Fourth grade or something, they were like, you got to
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choose an instrument, and I think my parents chose violin
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for me. So I played violin for a minute, and
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then in the fifth grade, I think I played clarinet
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for a minute. And then in the sixth grade I
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started playing drum in the in the orchestra. And it
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was just like one of those things where I just
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enjoyed playing music, Like I don't know why, Like there
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wasn't I never really studied music certainly, I you know,
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I played. You know, we did this Zuki method in
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fourth grade with the with the violin, and we did
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we did the same style of learning the clarinet. And
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then I started learning drums, but it was just sort
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of field snare. And then in the seventh grade, you know,
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my dad got really sick and he died when I
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was twelve, and my mom got me a drum kit.
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My next door neighbor like agreed, like play whenever you want,
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but when I get home, it would be great if
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you don't play between like, you know, whatever seven and ten,
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you know, like after seven.
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Pm or whatever.
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So I used to come home from school and put
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on headphones and listen to Rush records and listen to
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led Zeppelin records and listen to all the all the
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rock records of the seventies and in the early eighties.
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I was listening to learning all those drum parts and
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just playing playing along to those to those records.
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That was really, in all fairness, Neil prot is an
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unbelievable drummer.
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I got.
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He was incredible.
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I mean, he's one of the greatest drummers to ever
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play rock.
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Yeah, you know, ten different tom lots.
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Of like big, big drum kit.
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Yeah, big tom roll downs and stuff.
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That was That was really the It was really the
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beginning of of my my being you know, into music.
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And then I started playing drums in a band in
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high school. We were like, we did covers. We did
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cars covers and YouTube covers and we're just a cover band.
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And we played at some I don't remember what we played,
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played at a dance or something.
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I don't know what we what we did what what
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I What.
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I realized was the guitar player was getting all the girls,
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and I was like, I like drums, but I think
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I want to think I want to play guitar. So
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the guitar player used to leave his guitar at my
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house because we would rehearse at my house so I
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don't have to move.
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The drums to the guitar player's house.
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He left, he left his guitar at my house, and
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I taught myself how to play guitar, just like picked
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it up and started figuring out how to play it.
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And then I became a guitar player, and that was
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sort of my you know, I started writing songs. I
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started playing with a friend of mine in high school
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and we made a band and you know, then the
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rest is sort of history. And then I had bands
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and then tried to and I came out to La
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tried to get a record deal, like did the whole thing,
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and then finally got a record deal.
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All right, let's pull back for a second, because your
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scoring work has a lot of wonderful classical and romantic influence.
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So what were the kind of the kinds of classical
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music that your dad was listening to? Because I think
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it embedded itself in your DNA. What sort of classical
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music was dad onto?
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I mean, you know, all the typical things, Like he
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was very into Rockman and off. He was very into Beethoven,
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He's very into Mozart. He's you know he I mean,
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he would never let me listen to Wagner. Right to Wagner,
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he would never let me listen to He was like, no,
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no Wagner in my house. My father of the whole
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Germanic thing was there was a German thing, like you know,
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the fact of the matter is like, I well, I
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didn't know any better.
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And I was eight when he was saying this stuff.
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And my dad was Europeans, so he had this very
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thick European accident.
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And do not listen to Wagner in.
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My house like the Russian late Romantics earlier.
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Yeah, I mean my dad was Eastern Europeans, so you know,
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the Russian the Russian masters of that era of you know,
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classical music were certainly a part of it. And I,
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you know, I dove, I dove deep into the Russian
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sound for when I when I sort of started listening
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to stuff for inspiration for Fargo, I started, I started
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really diving into that. But but all that to say,
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like there's all that is proceeded by the fact that
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I had no designs on doing anything orchestral or designs
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doing anything sort of from a compositional standpoint, I was
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writing rock songs. I wanted to be a rock star,
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you know that. That's what I wanted to be when
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I was a high school. In high school, I wanted
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to be a lead guitar player in my band. And
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that's sort of that was my jumping off point. I
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never really even considered writing instrumental orchestral music before. You know,
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it wasn't until much later that that became something that
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I was even I've figured out that I could do,
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Like I didn't even know that I could do it
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until somebody said, hey, this score we want you to do.
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This is gonna be orchestral, right, and I was like, yeah, sure,
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and then I had to figure out how to do
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it so well.
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But your experiences with Tonic and with Low Stars, I
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think did inform your the fact that you were growing
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as an arranger. Let me just pull back a little
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bit more.
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I you know, I love Tonic, It's an incredible band,
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and uh A.
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Eleven Parade for Me is a great album. So just
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kind of how did you how did Tonic come about
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in the first place? I mean, how did that whole
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story begin?
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I mean, you know again, it's so funny. My story
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with this is is sort of.
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Everything about my musical career has been, you know, being
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in a specific place at a specific time and meeting
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a specific person or getting involved in doing a thing
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right at the right time.
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And so I had I had.
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Left New York with my dear friend who I was
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in a band with then when we were I was
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seventeen when I left New York and another dear friend
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of mine, his name is Lenny Kravitz.
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You might you might know that he has written a
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number of challenge. Yeah. So I've known Lenny since I
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was like sixteen. I met him when I was sixteen,
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and he basically I learned how to play all.
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The instruments that I know how to play by watching
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him and being in a studio with him and trying
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to emulate his style of playing, because he was very
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much in this sort of sixties seventies rock style of
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playing at the time. And my sense of harmony comes
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very much deeply embedded in my learning how to harmonize
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from watching him harmonize himself making that first record, which
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I was there when they were making that first record,
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and so I went from that fly coming to LA
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and trying to make that work, and then that's sort
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of not working out. Lenny went off and did more
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records on his own. I stopped playing with this person
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I had been playing in a band with at the time,
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and then didn't really know what I was going to do.
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And I walked into a I walked into a pool hall,
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the Llywood Athletic Club September of nineteen ninety two, October
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of nineteen ninety two, something like that, and Emerson Hart,
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who's the singer in Tonic, was there, and he was
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the manager of the of the place, and I had
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known Emerson from New York because we were both teenage actors,
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like I was a commercial actor and we used to
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see each other on these auditions when we were when
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we were in high school, so I knew Emerson then.
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And I walked in and saw there.
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I was like, hey, I know you, and he said
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the same to me, and we just started talking and
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he started telling me about his musical endeavors. He was
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like writing songs, and I was like, well, I've been
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looking to start a band because I was in this
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band and now I'm not. And so he said, let's
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get together and work on some music.
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And we did.
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And in that very first time that we sat down together,
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he was like, what do you think of this? And
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he played he played me bits of If you Can
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Only See, and I was like, wow, that's going to
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be great, Like we we should try to put this
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with a band and try to do this, and you know,
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like we sort of made it into a song, and
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that was that was how my relationship with Emerson sort
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of began, and we formed the band and we did
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a lot of work over the next like three years,
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like getting different musicians to play with us, and different
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studios and different producers, and finally we fell into a drummer,
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Kevin Sheppard, and a bass player's name is Dan Rothschild
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and we made a record with Jack Joseph Puig because
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we got a record deal. And after playing a bunch
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of shows at the Mint, which is a which was
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a small little blues club here in la and every
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Sunday night they would do this rock evening and we
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would play there almost every Sunday night, and it just
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turned into us making a record and continuing on. But
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you know, the important part of that story is sort
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of like walking in and seeing people that I haven't
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seen in a while, being in the right place at
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the right time, and like meeting the person and the
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right you know, it's all all of it is is
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so fortuitous.
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I mean, Emerson is such a strong vocalist. Who is
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writing the lyrics?
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Emerson?
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So did lyrics begat the music or did music beget
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the lyrics or was it just the kernels of individual
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riffs or motifs? How did the song structure can how
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did the songs construct themselves?
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What was well? You know, it's interesting like with if
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you can only see.
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I mean, I think that Emerson just sat down and
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really just started to sing if you can only see
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the way she loves me, and maybe you didn't understand.
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And I think that it.
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Was that the lyric and the melody and the music
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all came at the same time to him. I actually
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don't know that because I wasn't there when that was conceived.
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But as the.
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Song went through various stages of creation, you know, there
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was like a different verse back then, and we recorded
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it differently and then it changed. And then when we
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went to make the record, I had this guitar riff
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bam bam that I was like, let's do that in
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between the first verses and the you know, in between
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the chorus and the second verse, and like that could
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be a thing.
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It was very sort of zeppliny that.
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I mean, it wasn't, but it felt like right for
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what we were doing, and little bits of things got
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added to that particular song, like other songs happened in
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a different way, like open Up your Eyes. There was
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a riff and that riff began the thing, and then
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I think Emerson sang the lyric on top of the riff,
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and he was writing lyrics at home, bringing them in
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and singing stuff. And we were you know what I mean,
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Like there wasn't really one particularular way that we as
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a band were creating songs. I know, Emerson would sit
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by himself and write a song, you know, with his
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acoustic guitar, and I would sit at home and write
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a riff or whatever, write music or write melodies and
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stuff and bring it to him and then he would
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either say, ah, that's working or no, that's not, and
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then how do we how do we put that with
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this piece or that? You know, there was a million
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different ways, and.
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So it's organic and it's fascinating. Like mid nineties, what
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we're all into the digital era? What were you recording on?
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Were you already working with music software or that just a.
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Hard now we we in our entire careers.
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In our first three records anyway, Like the first record
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was one hundred percent analog.
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We never never had anything act or No.
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We were recording on a twenty four track, yeah, we were,
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and we were looping them together, you know, with with
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timecode and doing stuff like that.
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So we have more tracks.
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But we didn't get into any sort of digital recording
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until the second record where we had a pro tools
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engineer also running side by side with analog. And then
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it wasn't until we made a record with with Bob Rock,
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our third record, that we were like, yeah, we just
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sort of went full digital. But I myself didn't really
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start working in that domain for myself until after our
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third record.
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All right, well, so how did you start the transition
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into scoring? How did that all come about that?
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You know, this is a very interesting story too.
333
00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:45.880
Like, so in nineteen ninety nine, I was asked to
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be in a movie to play guitar player, you know,
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to play a musician who lives in a building in
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this movie called Hollywood Palms. And the director knew I
337
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was a guitar player in the band, right, and he
338
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said you should come down to the composer's studio and
339
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playing guitar on the on the on the score. I
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was like great, So I did that and I played,
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and I was like, oh, you know, this is kind
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of fun. This is kind of an interesting thing playing
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music to picture and that that seems sort of interesting
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to me. And that's when I met my dear friend
345
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Ben Decter, who is a composer, and we are our dear,
346
00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:28.160
dear friends to this day. And then I sort of
347
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that was done with that, and then I went back
348
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and you know, made another record with Tonic and continued
349
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that whole thing. And in two thousand and six, Emerson
350
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and I, I mean, I should say Emerson decided he
351
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wanted to take a break from the band make a
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solo record, and I had a decision. I was like, well,
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I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna do. Like
354
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I you know, I didn't know whether or not I
355
00:18:50.160 --> 00:18:52.079
wanted to make a solo record. I didn't know if
356
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I wanted to be the frontman singer. I tried it,
357
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I made a record.
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I wasn't The Low Stars project hadn't started yet.
359
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The Low Stars project is happening now at this time
360
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that I'm talking about. This is what I'm saying. So, like,
361
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I didn't know if I wanted to make a solo record.
362
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So I ended up forming the Low Stars with a
363
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couple of other friends of mine, because you know, I'm
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a very collaborative guy, rather than wanting to be the
365
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person at the front of the stage doing the thing myself.
366
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And we made we made that record. We made that record,
367
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and after after sitting around my living room playing and
368
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singing songs, the four of us, like, you know, harmonizing
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like Crosby Stills Nash Young, which is what we wanted
370
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to be. We wanted to be like a CSNY or
371
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an Eagles or you know, any one of those types
372
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of bands.
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Right.
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So we made that record, went on tour, and then
375
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that band sort of fell apart because as bands do,
376
00:19:52.799 --> 00:19:55.359
like either they work or they don't. And we had
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a great time, but we were never really gonna make
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another record, and that moment I kind of needed to
379
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figure out what I was going to do. And I
380
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came back home and a dear friend of my wife,
381
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her name is Wendy Melvoin of the duo Wendy and
382
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Lisa from Prince's Band. They they are and were and
383
00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:24.839
have been and continue to be composers in their own right.
384
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So Wendy asked me to come down to her studio
385
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and sort of sit in watch, you know, see what
386
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they're doing.
387
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And they were working on a they were working on
388
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a couple.
389
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Of things, a little show called Heroes at the time
390
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:42.240
and and and guess it was, And they were also
391
00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:46.720
working on another show called Crossing Jordan yeah, right, and
392
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so at the time I was just sort of watching
393
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everything and.
394
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I sort of really dug it.
395
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And then at one point I remember Lisa asking me like,
396
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how do you feel like would you want to try
397
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to a queue? Like, let's see see what you can do,
398
00:21:02.839 --> 00:21:05.000
And the idea was I had to write a cue
399
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:06.599
as though I were them, right, I was going to
400
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be writing something that they would use as themselves. And
401
00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:13.000
I said, okay, I can do that and five the
402
00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:15.279
right material, let me see if I can I can
403
00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:19.079
do that. I ended up writing an episode for them.
404
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:21.440
They were like, wow, this is really great.
405
00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:23.400
It sounded really great.
406
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:27.079
Everybody was fat happy, and I then was and I
407
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.480
was talking that this was on Crossing Jordan, and then
408
00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:33.440
I went on to write a bunch of music for
409
00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.039
them because Lisa went to go have a baby and
410
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.759
needed to be on maternity leave and Wendy was like,
411
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:41.960
I can't do Heroes and this other show at the
412
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:45.759
same time by myself. Can you write write some of
413
00:21:45.759 --> 00:21:48.200
this music? And I did and it ended up working
414
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:51.960
out great. I wrote an entire the entirety or most
415
00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.359
of the last season of that show for them, so
416
00:21:56.440 --> 00:22:01.640
that sort of gave me my my experience like being
417
00:22:01.680 --> 00:22:06.279
under the gun network television, understanding how deliveries were made,
418
00:22:06.279 --> 00:22:09.680
and like what the what the idea was, but you know,
419
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.559
and like how to put music to picture and all these.
420
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:17.079
Things were at this point where you still are going
421
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:19.240
working in pro tools yourself.
422
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:23.400
And yeah, they they worked in pro Tools and Logic
423
00:22:24.119 --> 00:22:28.359
and I did the same thing. I sequenced in pro Tools,
424
00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:32.160
but used Logic as a instrument host.
425
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:36.160
That's how they used it. And you know, we were
426
00:22:36.200 --> 00:22:36.599
all used.
427
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:38.559
We were all sequencing in pro Tools because all of
428
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.160
us came from the pop world. And if you were
429
00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.480
from the pop world or rock world, you know, you
430
00:22:43.799 --> 00:22:45.920
knew pro Tools because that was sort of the gold
431
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:50.720
standard in recording studios for recording live music, right.
432
00:22:50.920 --> 00:22:53.400
Were you using virtual instruments or real life?
433
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:56.519
I was a combination of all of the above.
434
00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:59.640
Like I was playing stuff, I was using samples, as
435
00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:01.559
you know, was a bunch of things. They you know,
436
00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:03.519
for the stuff that I was writing for them, they
437
00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.960
would create sample libraries of themselves and then use that
438
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.200
in the in the creation of the score. So they
439
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:11.920
just gave me all that material and I was able
440
00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:13.559
to put together the score that way.
441
00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.960
And so for the lay person writing a queue is
442
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.000
sort of based on a show beat, Is that correct?
443
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:20.240
Or?
444
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:22.799
I mean, you know, you're watching the show, You're like, Okay,
445
00:23:22.799 --> 00:23:24.839
we're gonna put music here and we're gonna end it here,
446
00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:26.599
and it's going to try to do this with the
447
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:29.839
with the with the episode, whether or with that particular scene.
448
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:31.519
Either it's got to be tense or it's got to
449
00:23:31.559 --> 00:23:34.119
be romantic, or it's got to be you know, and
450
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:36.279
you have to watch the beats and sort of see
451
00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:36.640
how that.
452
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:38.920
Plays and then you put music to it. That all
453
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:40.720
came very naturally to.
454
00:23:40.599 --> 00:23:45.519
Me, and I mean I would I would credit my
455
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:49.200
my acting coach from when I was sixteen to that,
456
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.039
because you what you what you learn as an actor
457
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:57.240
when you study acting, is you learn how to manage
458
00:23:58.319 --> 00:24:01.160
what you want to get across to an audience, like
459
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:05.720
emotional beats and tense beats, and like how to manipulate
460
00:24:05.799 --> 00:24:11.039
an audience's feelings. Right, So when I my understanding of
461
00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:12.799
how an actor is supposed to do, that made it
462
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:14.720
very easy for me to understand how I was supposed
463
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.960
to do that as a musician, you know, and how
464
00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:20.279
music was going to help either underscore or play against
465
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:23.799
or push forward or pull back on any given scene.
466
00:24:24.160 --> 00:24:26.519
So I worked for Wendy and Lisa for about a year,
467
00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:32.039
and then that that ended. Then I stopped working for
468
00:24:32.079 --> 00:24:34.079
Wendy and Lisa and then went out to try to
469
00:24:34.119 --> 00:24:38.200
get my own work. And then that last I tried,
470
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:40.680
I didn't get a job for almost two years.
471
00:24:41.319 --> 00:24:43.960
Before we move forward, let's just talk a bit about
472
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:47.720
you having been an actor and trying to inform the
473
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:52.599
emotionality of a scene through your music. Just talk for
474
00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:58.119
just a moment about good melodic writing. For me, lyrical,
475
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:04.680
Good melodic writing is the secret of music and creating
476
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:10.359
good melodics. And I think lyrical melodics is one of
477
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:11.440
our life's missions.
478
00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.880
Well, you know, I think that there are people who
479
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:16.440
might disagree with you. I think that it's all a
480
00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:20.319
matter of taste, it all. It's all very subjective, right, Like.
481
00:25:20.319 --> 00:25:26.160
Some scores require that kind of approach where you want
482
00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:28.720
to be lyrical, you want to be melodic, you want
483
00:25:28.799 --> 00:25:33.279
it to guide the emotion. And some scores are exactly
484
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:35.599
the opposite of that. Some scores are like do not
485
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:40.119
get in the way, make it so nobody even knows you're.
486
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:41.880
There, like more like pads.
487
00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:46.599
Well, I mean pads are it's not quite as simplistic
488
00:25:46.599 --> 00:25:50.640
as that, because that's a pretty complex way to write
489
00:25:50.839 --> 00:25:55.400
as well. You know, I know it's counterintuitive to think
490
00:25:55.480 --> 00:25:57.559
that that kind of music would be easy to do.
491
00:25:57.640 --> 00:25:58.039
It's not.
492
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:02.160
It's actually it can be more difficult to try to
493
00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:08.240
speak without speaking, to try to engage an audience without
494
00:26:08.319 --> 00:26:12.680
them noticing, right, That can be very complicated as well.
495
00:26:13.240 --> 00:26:17.039
So while I agree with what you're saying, I'm very
496
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:19.640
much in favor of melody. I'm very much in favor
497
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:24.279
of that style of writing. And when I'm told I
498
00:26:24.359 --> 00:26:28.960
a filmmaker, no melody, there's too much melody here, I
499
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.279
have a very difficult time. I have a very difficult
500
00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:34.720
time like dialing back to melody, and then I sit
501
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:35.680
back and I listen.
502
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:38.319
I'm like, but this doesn't feel finished now, Like now I.
503
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.279
Need to how can I finish it without that melody?
504
00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:46.039
Like what do I do? So, you know, again, it's
505
00:26:46.119 --> 00:26:49.000
all subjective. Music is a very subjective thing, and like
506
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.160
what is good for one person might not be good
507
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:52.799
for the other.
508
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:57.039
Especially the showrunner who may or may not want music
509
00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:59.440
that's more melodically based or not. This is sort of
510
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:03.720
the famous thing from Star Trek Ar Trek series. They
511
00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:08.079
specifically told the composers don't really be melodic and don't
512
00:27:08.119 --> 00:27:12.680
really create character motifs, which to me is, you know,
513
00:27:13.880 --> 00:27:17.920
seems perfectly logical that you would do that. But you know,
514
00:27:18.359 --> 00:27:21.240
as you're saying, you're working for a showrunner that may
515
00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:22.599
or may not want that approach.
516
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:28.200
But here's an interesting part. Being one of the Star
517
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:33.400
Trek composers, I've had the opportunity to talk specifically and
518
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:34.960
directly to those.
519
00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:36.160
Composers that you're talking about.
520
00:27:37.279 --> 00:27:40.000
And I've also had the opportunity to listen to that
521
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:43.920
music free of anything else. Like I wanted to study
522
00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.960
like what Jay Chadaway did right now, I wanted to
523
00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:51.359
sort of dive deep. Like so what you will find
524
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:58.480
is that, yes, the stories are no melody, just be
525
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:02.119
you know, just be very sort of wallpapery.
526
00:28:03.359 --> 00:28:04.480
I know like that.
527
00:28:04.640 --> 00:28:07.720
There's a lot of talk in the Trek verse about
528
00:28:07.839 --> 00:28:11.759
Rick Berman saying very much that thing, Like I've never
529
00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:14.440
met Rick. I don't know Rick, but but I've heard
530
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:18.400
those stories. But what you realize is that is not
531
00:28:18.599 --> 00:28:23.400
exactly what those composers did. Those composers were actually extremely
532
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:29.279
deft at doing that score those scores, Like we're talking
533
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:33.480
about Next Generation mainly like what happened when they when
534
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:37.559
they transition from season one into season two and they
535
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.599
they they sort of changed direction in terms of how
536
00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:43.839
they were going to make the score. And if you
537
00:28:43.880 --> 00:28:46.640
go back and you listen to those scores, they don't
538
00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:50.720
sound very wallpapery. The way they were utilizing the music
539
00:28:51.359 --> 00:28:55.240
was very wallpapery, but the music itself is still very
540
00:28:55.359 --> 00:29:03.880
sort of complex, dense, and very moving, and I always
541
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.519
find it very I always find it very interesting to
542
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:08.960
like have that conversation with a Star Trek fan, like,
543
00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.799
oh yeah, you know, like seasons two, three, two through
544
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:14.599
six of Next Generation, it was like there was no music,
545
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:16.359
and I was like, you guys haven't listened.
546
00:29:16.839 --> 00:29:19.680
You know, you mentioned the great Jayhadaway. You don't have
547
00:29:19.720 --> 00:29:28.279
to look any further than Inner Light, of course, an effusive, glowing, melodic,
548
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:32.480
lyrical piece of work. Oh I know, there you go.
549
00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.480
I mean I based I based the main section, first
550
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.079
section of the melody of the Picard theme on a
551
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:44.079
throwaway melody from that episode. You had a throwaway melody
552
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:51.119
that Picard's son was playing off screen. So I decided
553
00:29:51.160 --> 00:29:53.880
to take the first four notes of that melody, I'm like, well,
554
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:56.480
I'm going to use that. That's really great, that's really cool,
555
00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.640
And I use that for the main melody of the
556
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.720
of the theme and it worked out really great. And
557
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:04.960
Jay was Jay when I saw him last summer, because
558
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.519
I saw him last summer, right yeah, yeah, yeah, he said,
559
00:30:08.839 --> 00:30:10.079
thank you very much for doing that.
560
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.960
I got my check in the maud Great.
561
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:29.480
Hi, guys, welcome to this episode of Creation Entertainment Pop
562
00:30:29.519 --> 00:30:33.240
Culture Cinema Squad once again. I'm Adam Mail and joined
563
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:36.319
by my esteemed colleague, the great Kit Bowing.
564
00:30:36.160 --> 00:30:38.759
Kit Bow, and Hi, However, how is everything.
565
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:40.799
Going with you? Adam? Everything has been great.
566
00:30:40.920 --> 00:30:42.880
And I know we did do a deep dive on
567
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:46.559
season two sevens a few weeks ago, but the season
568
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:49.400
has ended down, so we have to kind of dish
569
00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:51.319
a little bit more on the ending of the season.
570
00:30:51.799 --> 00:30:55.519
Some speculations, theories just kind of talk about what went down.
571
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:56.559
Feel free too Well.
572
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:00.720
I was just gonna say that this past season was interesting,
573
00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:04.400
to say the least. I wasn't necessarily wowed by it
574
00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:07.039
like I was that first season because it was so
575
00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:10.359
you know, I think I said it was so original
576
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:12.200
to me that I just you know it.
577
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:14.599
Was this season. It was was good. I think it
578
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:15.759
had some hits and misses.
579
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:19.359
In my opinion, was getting for me anyway, a little
580
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:20.759
too weird for weird sake.
581
00:31:20.920 --> 00:31:24.480
It was weird, and also in order to advance the narrative,
582
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:29.519
certain episodes tended to slow down and or get very
583
00:31:29.559 --> 00:31:33.279
interior and others spread out. Yeah, like Wo's Hollow was
584
00:31:33.319 --> 00:31:34.039
an incredible leve.
585
00:31:34.200 --> 00:31:36.039
Yeah, you loved that one, but other people didn't love
586
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:36.599
that one someo.
587
00:31:36.680 --> 00:31:39.640
Yeah, but I think we kind of have to talk
588
00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:42.400
about the ramifications of what happened in the season finale.
589
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.039
The season finale brought it all together, so you know,
590
00:31:45.119 --> 00:31:48.240
spoilers of course, guys, if you haven't seen it, and.
591
00:31:48.200 --> 00:31:50.680
By the way, this why happened.
592
00:31:50.400 --> 00:31:54.920
This whole thing about don't reveal spoilers, don't watch because
593
00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:57.920
in all fairness, we were not going to try and
594
00:31:57.920 --> 00:32:00.839
get ahead to the next season. But I mean, the
595
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:03.759
supposition is you've watched the season of seven, so we
596
00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:06.480
can discuss it with you creatively.
597
00:32:06.640 --> 00:32:09.519
Yeah, but if you haven't, obviously turned off right now.
598
00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:12.519
And don't watch this because we have to talk about it.
599
00:32:12.799 --> 00:32:16.519
Otherwise we're not having our discourse. But hopefully you'll you'll
600
00:32:16.559 --> 00:32:19.160
feel it's well worth it, because there's a lot to
601
00:32:19.240 --> 00:32:20.599
unpack about that episode.
602
00:32:21.519 --> 00:32:23.839
Well, first of all, let me just say.
603
00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:28.920
I am totally on the whole Mark s you know
604
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:32.039
anything between Yeah, actually I think I love this any
605
00:32:32.079 --> 00:32:35.039
more than I love is Audi. Yes, I'm more of
606
00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:39.160
a Although I wanted Mark Zaudi to be together with
607
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:41.599
his wife, I mean that was something they really set
608
00:32:41.680 --> 00:32:44.440
up this season, and I was rooting for him. But
609
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.720
at the same time, marks Any is in love with
610
00:32:48.799 --> 00:32:51.240
Helly and so you know, there's this I just thought
611
00:32:51.319 --> 00:32:53.599
that was so well played out, especially.
612
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:57.519
Marx Audi seemed a bit selfish, yes, because he's trying
613
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:01.200
to convince marks Any to It sounds so funny just
614
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:05.240
saying he's trying to convince the Inny to take the
615
00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.240
steps necessary so that the Audi can be with Gemma.
616
00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:13.440
Yes, but Mark's Any is in love with Helen, I.
617
00:33:13.400 --> 00:33:15.640
Know, and there's this whole thing going on.
618
00:33:16.400 --> 00:33:19.279
It was one of the best written scenes I've ever seen,
619
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.200
and of them talking to me so crazy, Oh my god,
620
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:24.039
it was so good.
621
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.839
Adam Scott played it beautifully, and then he's such.
622
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:29.839
A good act in that birthing room, and I guess
623
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:31.400
you could go outside.
624
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:33.440
The room and you you know, urren out and you
625
00:33:33.519 --> 00:33:34.519
go in the room and you're.
626
00:33:34.359 --> 00:33:36.799
In any So they were recording on the on the
627
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:39.200
video to each other and it was just it was
628
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.279
just really one of the best scenes in that whole series.
629
00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.240
And of course Mark S's decision to.
630
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:52.440
Abandon Gemma for the life that he wanted with Helly
631
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:53.519
was really intense.
632
00:33:53.680 --> 00:33:56.480
Right, so, you know, we have so basically they're setting
633
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:58.519
it up. They're setting it up as.
634
00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:01.119
A you know, as a willy or won't eat. Are
635
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:02.720
they going to see each other? Are they going to
636
00:34:02.799 --> 00:34:04.119
meet each other again? Helly?
637
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:07.680
I mean, uh, Gemma and Mark Are they gonna finally
638
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:08.639
see each other again?
639
00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:08.920
You know?
640
00:34:08.960 --> 00:34:09.400
And they do.
641
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:12.719
We have this moment, this wonderful, beautiful moment, and they're
642
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:15.280
so happy to see each other. Then they get into
643
00:34:15.320 --> 00:34:18.559
that elevator and you can see the ball, you know, change,
644
00:34:18.599 --> 00:34:19.960
and now they're they're in He's again.
645
00:34:20.320 --> 00:34:21.159
It's a triangle.
646
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:26.320
It's just I was like, and then Helly shows up.
647
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:31.199
Now some people are saying that Hellys showing up right
648
00:34:31.239 --> 00:34:34.960
as Gemma has been has been shut out, has been
649
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:38.719
sent outside basically, so it's gem on the outside looking
650
00:34:38.719 --> 00:34:42.400
at her mark, but it's any Mark, and she's like.
651
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:46.519
Come come, please, come come, and he's like hesitating, it's
652
00:34:46.519 --> 00:34:49.320
about ready to do it. And then Helly shows up
653
00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:52.519
behind him and she says Mark, and he turns around.
654
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:56.719
Come come hill. See.
655
00:34:56.719 --> 00:34:57.440
But here's the thing.
656
00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.800
She just had that whole conversation with him where she said,
657
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:02.840
you've got to you've got to go, you have to
658
00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:03.400
let your ass.
659
00:35:03.599 --> 00:35:05.880
She loves them, she wants, you know, love. The heart
660
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:06.920
will do what the heart will do.
661
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.920
So then they're running down the holes like the graduate.
662
00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:12.199
If anybody's seeing that film, they're all running down the
663
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:14.440
hole like going, where are they going to go? I
664
00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:15.760
think they're gonna go to go people.
665
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.159
That's okay. We love those ghosts. We're gonna do horror.
666
00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:23.880
Those poor ghosts are sacrificial labs, poor little lennies. All right,
667
00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:28.760
Wait a second, Gemma, gamma, What the heck are they
668
00:35:28.840 --> 00:35:32.360
doing with the twenty four different there's.
669
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:33.800
Just twenty four different in it they create.
670
00:35:33.840 --> 00:35:37.400
Well, okay, we've already discussed the fact that they're balancing
671
00:35:37.960 --> 00:35:42.519
the tempers right people with their insidious experiments, and the
672
00:35:43.000 --> 00:35:45.360
idea is that each of those twenty four different you know,
673
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:49.239
Cold Harbor, different rooms, was a different balance of temperament,
674
00:35:49.480 --> 00:35:53.880
of tempers to create twenty four different personalities, right now,
675
00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:57.320
are they They were alluding to killing Gemma at the
676
00:35:57.400 --> 00:35:57.880
end of the show.
677
00:35:58.000 --> 00:35:58.719
That was something I want.
678
00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:00.119
Are they doing just trying to get to.
679
00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:03.400
Twenty four different personality programs and then they can just
680
00:36:03.519 --> 00:36:07.000
drop those into you know, with that press of a
681
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:11.039
button into anybody. Are people going to become blank slates?
682
00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:11.519
Well?
683
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:14.199
I think that the goal was to get Jemma to
684
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:17.360
a place or her one of her innies, to a
685
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:19.639
place where she had no emotions. So that's why they
686
00:36:19.800 --> 00:36:22.159
sent her into that last room and tell her to
687
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:25.880
dismantle the baby crib, which is of course.
688
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:29.000
Jemma's whole, you know, her major conflict through this whole.
689
00:36:29.239 --> 00:36:32.000
I wanted to talk about eliminating her after she's done.
690
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:35.320
Well, maybe it was metaphorical. Maybe it was like Jemma
691
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:35.800
would be.
692
00:36:35.760 --> 00:36:38.119
Gone, Jema's personality.
693
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:38.639
Jema's personality.
694
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:40.960
Well, the whole damn thing is creepy.
695
00:36:41.519 --> 00:36:42.519
How did they get Gemma?
696
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:44.639
That's another Now, there's.
697
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.039
A lot of action in that episode, and one of
698
00:36:47.079 --> 00:36:50.599
the great sequences that I love is when the shit
699
00:36:50.679 --> 00:36:53.440
hits the fand with mister drama horrible guy.
700
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:56.280
He's the guy. I've hated this guy all season, right.
701
00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:59.719
The great actor is that he's a Swedish actors all
702
00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:01.400
of hey, all of this sudden.
703
00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:02.800
Yes, I've seen him in.
704
00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.400
A million great actor, but he's creepy and he's sort
705
00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:08.239
of like the enforcer, you know for the family.
706
00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:13.280
Definitely Milchek's nemesis, that's for sure. I can't understand big words.
707
00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:18.239
So uh he basically it comes to grips with Mark
708
00:37:18.280 --> 00:37:20.320
and he's gonna he's gonna kill Mark, you know.
709
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:23.719
And then thank god that uh.
710
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:28.039
Briann of Ptarth, Gwendolyn christ Grendalyn Christie shows up and
711
00:37:28.039 --> 00:37:30.360
that one looks like she could kill just about anybody
712
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:32.360
as she did in the Game of Thront.
713
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:33.079
She sure did.
714
00:37:33.559 --> 00:37:37.679
It's the best so well, first of all, that horrible
715
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:40.199
sequence where they're taking the goats and they're putting the
716
00:37:40.199 --> 00:37:43.920
goat into the table and the head and they're they're
717
00:37:43.960 --> 00:37:44.960
going to sacrifice the.
718
00:37:45.000 --> 00:37:46.119
Poor little Goadie.
719
00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:49.960
And then when when when Drummond hands.
720
00:37:49.679 --> 00:37:53.400
Her the gun to kill to kill them or however,
721
00:37:53.760 --> 00:37:56.599
I think she's gonna shoot him. She's gonna shoot him
722
00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:59.480
she's gonna shoot him because she's tired of killing her goat.
723
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.760
Well, like everybody that works for Luhman, she also has
724
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:06.719
been emotionally battered. She's an emotionally battered woman. Yes, and
725
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:07.880
it's like, oh my god.
726
00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:08.760
That's the cold party.
727
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:12.960
But finally when she sees him choking off Mark, I mean,
728
00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.480
that's that's it. That's that's the end. And then they
729
00:38:15.519 --> 00:38:17.519
had that big, fantastic, bloody battle.
730
00:38:17.519 --> 00:38:18.159
It's awesome.
731
00:38:18.599 --> 00:38:20.920
They're fighting in the hallway there. This, by the way,
732
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:23.880
happens in the creation hallways too. There's all sorts of
733
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.760
people beating up and bleeding each other. It's a riot
734
00:38:26.800 --> 00:38:31.159
what goes on out there. Seriously, Drummond had it coming.
735
00:38:31.159 --> 00:38:32.360
I couldn't wait for him to die.
736
00:38:32.719 --> 00:38:37.559
I know, I know, I know, because that's crazy.
737
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:40.840
Okay, Now, let's talk a little bit about Patricia kat
738
00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:45.880
the Kobell character. In the penultimate episode or one or
739
00:38:45.880 --> 00:38:48.960
two episodes before, we saw her return to the factory
740
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:53.719
where as a young woman she was raised in the
741
00:38:55.639 --> 00:38:58.159
in the working working in the ether pits or whatever
742
00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:03.039
the heck that is for the ether. But I mean
743
00:39:04.480 --> 00:39:07.880
this family, the limits, the family that the Eaton's family,
744
00:39:08.360 --> 00:39:09.199
Eagan family.
745
00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:13.639
They are seriously warmed. But she has.
746
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:18.000
Decided, you know, she's going to finally betray the company.
747
00:39:17.840 --> 00:39:21.400
Because apparently so she goes basically back to her home
748
00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:25.039
where she's grown up, in this household where they revere here.
749
00:39:25.719 --> 00:39:31.559
And meanwhile, she is literally according to this notebook she
750
00:39:31.679 --> 00:39:36.400
was trying to find this notebook of hers. She has
751
00:39:36.440 --> 00:39:37.719
all the things that they're doing.
752
00:39:37.840 --> 00:39:42.000
So they essentially absconded with her intellectual property for their
753
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:44.280
own nefarious of course.
754
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:45.639
Just not giving her credit.
755
00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:48.400
At all, but honestly, creating that technology in the first
756
00:39:48.440 --> 00:39:53.119
place is screwed up. It's warmed, you know, which kind
757
00:39:53.119 --> 00:39:58.360
of gets to the whole idea of controlling human personalities. Well,
758
00:39:58.400 --> 00:40:00.800
first of all in the workplace, which is great because
759
00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:03.880
just as we control our creation employees in our workplace,
760
00:40:03.960 --> 00:40:07.480
not just kidding, of course, but the idea in the
761
00:40:08.079 --> 00:40:12.360
corporate yes, a creation theme song. In the corporate world,
762
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:18.039
there is a lot of dehumanization, compartmentalization, and so I
763
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:20.559
know they're kind of doing that as a metaphor, but
764
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:23.239
this is just taking it to a ridiculous end.
765
00:40:23.320 --> 00:40:28.199
And so finally, but it's also what I find fascinating
766
00:40:28.719 --> 00:40:31.800
is like with Mark, for example.
767
00:40:32.079 --> 00:40:35.239
He chooses to do this, He chooses to be severed
768
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:37.119
because he wants to get rid of the pain.
769
00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:40.360
So, you know, it's the motivation of some of these
770
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.119
people who work on the severed floors. Why are they there?
771
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:47.280
And you know they're escaping something.
772
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:50.400
Their audis may have that escapist motivation, but little do
773
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:54.039
they realize they're they're that those feelings are being manipulated
774
00:40:54.079 --> 00:40:58.199
and preyed upon by the Egan people who who are
775
00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:02.559
really more interested in advance their agenda of controlling human
776
00:41:02.920 --> 00:41:07.280
behavior and personalities for their own nefarious version of what
777
00:41:07.320 --> 00:41:09.679
a perfectly tempered world should be.
778
00:41:09.800 --> 00:41:12.079
I think that's it. It's sick, it's weird.
779
00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:15.639
And by the way, one of my favorite scenes though,
780
00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:19.000
is so you know, for the first half of the
781
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.039
of the series, it was Helen.
782
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.920
I it was Helen's Audi, who is the daughter of
783
00:41:25.400 --> 00:41:29.880
whatever Egan. It is Megan, and you.
784
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:33.559
Know, woe's heart, woes hollow, we find come to find
785
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.679
this out and then it's yeah, so then it goes
786
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:39.079
reverts to her inny so it's now Helly.
787
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:42.000
When the dad comes.
788
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:43.440
In, he's so creepy.
789
00:41:43.960 --> 00:41:46.599
She's in like the little room whatever, and he comes
790
00:41:46.639 --> 00:41:49.519
in and she goes, the hell are you?
791
00:41:49.559 --> 00:41:54.719
And he says, you tricked me? And I'm like, oh, why, how?
792
00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.760
And she's like what. She's like, I have no idea
793
00:41:57.800 --> 00:41:58.639
what you're talking about.
794
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:02.880
So Helena is some how on the outside is probably
795
00:42:02.960 --> 00:42:07.920
manipulating the situation, and maybe Lumin will change I don't
796
00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:11.079
know what do you think Lumin might change hands in
797
00:42:11.559 --> 00:42:12.199
season three?
798
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:14.519
On a note, but I also think that is this
799
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.519
just their own internal corporate agenda or are they some
800
00:42:18.639 --> 00:42:21.920
way working with the government. I'd hate to think that
801
00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:26.519
this is also a governmental program to control human behavior
802
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:32.119
because it has ramifications, you know, scary ramifications for our
803
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:36.079
whole society, and then the whole idea of them, you know,
804
00:42:36.199 --> 00:42:39.840
sticking bits chips in our heads is you know, it's
805
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:43.280
not that far away from what Elon Musk is doing now,
806
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.000
has this thing where he's putting things in to help
807
00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:53.920
people with muscle diseases and things, and evidently those techniques
808
00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:56.199
are working. So this is just kind of a step
809
00:42:56.239 --> 00:42:58.920
away from that where they turn on the emotion chip
810
00:42:59.400 --> 00:42:59.840
or turn it.
811
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:02.840
All off, and well, man, I mean it goes all
812
00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:05.960
the way back to like Man Carey and candidate that's Uh,
813
00:43:06.000 --> 00:43:08.400
you know that's actually I just watched the remake of
814
00:43:08.440 --> 00:43:11.880
that with Meryl Streep and Schreiber. But yeah, same kind
815
00:43:11.880 --> 00:43:15.760
of mind control, creating the perfect Souldier. They're always trying
816
00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:16.239
to do that.
817
00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:20.199
So there's a lot of these tensions between the innies
818
00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:24.960
and the audies. Another great side story is Zach Cherry's character, Dylan, Yes,
819
00:43:25.079 --> 00:43:26.400
and Dylan's wife.
820
00:43:26.159 --> 00:43:28.960
Merret Weaver, who's one of my favorite and I.
821
00:43:28.920 --> 00:43:37.280
Guess his his Audi becomes aware that she's happier with
822
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:42.239
his INNI yep. And so it's he decides to terminate
823
00:43:42.800 --> 00:43:45.559
the Innie to have not had the any anymore because
824
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:50.000
he's jealous of his own, which the wife just kind
825
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:55.400
of accedes to. But again, it's this idea that they've
826
00:43:55.440 --> 00:44:01.320
created a race of additional personalities. Yeah, and what rights
827
00:44:01.400 --> 00:44:05.280
do these do these any personalities have? Don't they have
828
00:44:05.320 --> 00:44:07.679
the right to live a life with their own Also,
829
00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:09.480
if I was an INNY, wouldn't I want to like
830
00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:12.639
live a life outside and not just inside of the
831
00:44:12.719 --> 00:44:13.440
woman building.
832
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:16.159
I mean, you know, well, this is what we're at now.
833
00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:21.159
Mark and Helly want to have a life together, then
834
00:44:21.199 --> 00:44:24.519
their innies have to be able to live out in
835
00:44:24.559 --> 00:44:26.360
the outside world as innies.
836
00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:31.360
Yeah, and you know, we also have the whole reintegration situation,
837
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:33.119
which Mark is already going through.
838
00:44:33.199 --> 00:44:34.559
So who knows what will happen.
839
00:44:34.679 --> 00:44:37.119
What's so you reintegrate? Now, how's he going to choose
840
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:39.760
between Gemma and Helly?
841
00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:41.639
It's a very good question.
842
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:47.440
Oh my, I'll have both.
843
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.559
All right. So finally, finally, before we before we wrap up.
844
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:53.920
Okay, so you guys all remember the waffle party from
845
00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:55.360
the first season, right.
846
00:44:55.119 --> 00:44:57.760
Which was a very weird deal with waffles.
847
00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:02.199
And strippers waffle this time around had a marching band party.
848
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:07.159
That marching band was that brings up the fabulous Trannel Tillman.
849
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:13.039
I love mister Milchick, and of course his enemy's protegee.
850
00:45:12.960 --> 00:45:14.199
He's gone fantastic.
851
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:15.320
She's gone right now.
852
00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:16.519
She's fantastic too.
853
00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:19.760
She's now graduated to the next portion of their program.
854
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:22.119
Well, I think he just got rid of hers, basically
855
00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:24.119
what I he facilitated that.
856
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:29.800
Mister Miltchick is fantastic and I think he's had enough.
857
00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:31.519
But it was kind of awesome that they turned the
858
00:45:31.559 --> 00:45:34.800
screws on him. They locked him in the bathroom. They
859
00:45:34.840 --> 00:45:38.360
had the you know, the soda machine there the band
860
00:45:38.519 --> 00:45:41.760
is playing, He's like, stop playing, already stopped playing.
861
00:45:42.400 --> 00:45:46.440
And then they they Heley and and Dylan, they sort
862
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:48.719
of rally the troops and say, we don't have to
863
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:51.280
be saves anymore. We could do what we want, blah
864
00:45:51.280 --> 00:45:54.559
blah blah. And then there when he finally breaks out, Tilchip,
865
00:45:54.639 --> 00:46:00.280
when he finally breaks out, they're all standing there going h.
866
00:45:58.639 --> 00:45:59.599
But the.
867
00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:05.480
Miltchiic is such a fascinating character, and honestly, I don't
868
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.079
know why, I just love it. They're so insulting, it
869
00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:10.800
obnoxious to him. But he does finally tell I think
870
00:46:10.880 --> 00:46:12.920
Drummond to funk off at some point, right, which is
871
00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:13.440
really great.
872
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.639
Also, so that's why I like the arc. They're giving
873
00:46:17.719 --> 00:46:19.519
him an arc.
874
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:24.599
Basically, they're they're showing that not only is he, you know,
875
00:46:24.920 --> 00:46:28.119
a company man at first, but now since he's in
876
00:46:28.239 --> 00:46:30.800
charge and they're keep you know, and drumming, can't understand
877
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:32.400
anything he's saying because he's using.
878
00:46:32.239 --> 00:46:34.159
Two big awards. Yeah, oh yeah, I know.
879
00:46:34.360 --> 00:46:36.920
Right, he had to write him up a report because
880
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:40.239
actually he's very eloquent, which is nice, not unlike you.
881
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:42.880
So in other words, every time you talk nice, now
882
00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:43.880
I'm gonna have to write up.
883
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:44.639
A report about you.
884
00:46:46.840 --> 00:46:51.440
Anyway, in conclusion, I mean, it was a great couple
885
00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:54.440
of seasons. Dan Erickson and Ben Stiller have crafted it
886
00:46:54.440 --> 00:46:58.800
in incredible story and we're so eagerly awaiting season three.
887
00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:00.519
Any's skinny about it's coming.
888
00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:03.679
I just hope it's not three years because that was
889
00:47:03.719 --> 00:47:04.440
a lie.
890
00:47:04.920 --> 00:47:07.320
A lot waiting for the season so that it's ridiculous.
891
00:47:07.760 --> 00:47:11.199
Yeah, you know, and if you guys don't know already
892
00:47:11.360 --> 00:47:13.239
many of you do, you can't watch all the way
893
00:47:13.239 --> 00:47:15.079
to the end. And they do like a little they
894
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:17.679
do like a little dive in each episode, and I
895
00:47:17.920 --> 00:47:19.760
recommend doing those because it's.
896
00:47:19.639 --> 00:47:25.960
Very what's annoying is that the streamers before that comes, well,
897
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.719
they run the credits and then they move you on
898
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.880
to another show. Yes, and cut that off. It's insidious.
899
00:47:33.840 --> 00:47:35.719
You get the back, but it's so bad.
900
00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:36.719
Don't do that.
901
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:38.679
Let me watch this thing. At the end of it,
902
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:42.039
you're like not letting me watch it. But anyway, in conclusion,
903
00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:45.519
we loved it. Yes, this is our definitive deep dive
904
00:47:45.679 --> 00:47:48.960
now finishing off on season two of sevens and when
905
00:47:48.960 --> 00:47:51.400
season three comes, you can be sure we'll be dishing
906
00:47:51.440 --> 00:47:52.760
and conveetching about it plenty.
907
00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:53.199
Okay.
908
00:47:53.480 --> 00:47:56.119
Let's I'm looking forward to it to see what happened.
909
00:47:55.840 --> 00:48:06.000
Anyway, always a pleasure. Can thank you so much. Guys.
910
00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:09.119
I've had a mamment back.
911
00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.039
With nightty skating Partners regarded pin.
912
00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:13.239
Okay, so today you have a question to me.
913
00:48:14.119 --> 00:48:17.880
It's more of kind of a reminiscence for us. Okay,
914
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:21.000
I want to talk about the great hotels.
915
00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:22.800
Of Manhattan in nineteen seventies.
916
00:48:23.599 --> 00:48:25.880
Yeah, there's some good stories there. Can we start with
917
00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.559
the Commodore, which was the first I think it was
918
00:48:28.599 --> 00:48:31.079
one of the first projects that Trump did in New
919
00:48:31.159 --> 00:48:33.679
York when he bought it, but we were there before. Yeah,
920
00:48:33.760 --> 00:48:34.880
well it's now that Trump.
921
00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:39.519
Let me give the genealogy of succession of hotels we used,
922
00:48:39.599 --> 00:48:42.000
you know, are such a nerve. We started with the
923
00:48:42.039 --> 00:48:45.159
New Yorker Hotel right down the block from where my
924
00:48:45.239 --> 00:48:46.280
dad's office was.
925
00:48:46.599 --> 00:48:49.159
That's eighth and thirty fourth and eight.
926
00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:51.559
Yeah, right down the block from his office in the
927
00:48:51.599 --> 00:48:52.639
Pennsylvania Building.
928
00:48:52.960 --> 00:48:55.199
Yeah. So we ran our.
929
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:59.159
First couple of shows there, right, definitely seventy one and
930
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:02.119
I think seventy two. Also, I don't know, we might
931
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:05.159
have moved about I think second out of the gate
932
00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:09.559
was the Statler Hilton under that name. Yeah, what it
933
00:49:09.599 --> 00:49:12.280
was is that before it became the Penta and then
934
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:16.239
the Hotel Pennsylvania, it was the Statler Builting. Yeah, I
935
00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:19.239
did right, Okay, and then I think the next hotel
936
00:49:19.280 --> 00:49:20.000
after that was.
937
00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.599
The Commodore Common, which is now the Grand high That's
938
00:49:22.599 --> 00:49:23.079
what it is.
939
00:49:23.119 --> 00:49:27.679
So the Commodore was per the property was purchased by
940
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:34.199
Donald Trump's group and they decided to bring it down
941
00:49:34.280 --> 00:49:36.119
to its girders.
942
00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:39.440
And rebuild it as the Grand Island. Yeah.
943
00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:42.119
So this use of like frames that are left from
944
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.360
these old buildings. They did it that way.
945
00:49:45.440 --> 00:49:48.639
But when they knocked down recently the pane the Statler Hill,
946
00:49:48.719 --> 00:49:50.119
and they just got ripped everything.
947
00:49:50.280 --> 00:49:52.840
That's right. Why is that? Well, what's the reason? Well,
948
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:54.039
this is interesting.
949
00:49:55.159 --> 00:49:59.239
Even though they did tear down to the studs the
950
00:49:59.639 --> 00:50:02.880
Common or to the Grand Hyatt, when I went back
951
00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:05.079
in there as the Grand Hyatt, it.
952
00:50:04.960 --> 00:50:06.440
Looks there were similar things.
953
00:50:06.519 --> 00:50:10.519
There were some of the moldings, some of the case
954
00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:15.320
goods and moldings of the entrances to the ballrooms still
955
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:18.079
existed at the Grand Hyatts. So when you're in the
956
00:50:18.159 --> 00:50:23.480
Grand Boorom foyer some of the wall moldings, plaster moldings
957
00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:27.159
were still from the commodore, which was very interesting. So
958
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:29.960
the walls would still have to live in there, well,
959
00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:32.159
some of the walls, and they probably ripped a lot
960
00:50:32.159 --> 00:50:33.760
of that out and put in one dry wall. Why
961
00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:36.719
were those hotels originally built in the twenties, I mean
962
00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:39.000
these hotels were like the twenties, the thirties. I mean
963
00:50:39.039 --> 00:50:42.719
we our thing was to inherit all the old Dowager
964
00:50:42.800 --> 00:50:49.119
properties that were just yes, right. But from what you said, however,
965
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:54.159
is that these days they literally have much different uh
966
00:50:54.480 --> 00:50:57.960
building foundational materials that they use. So they're not even
967
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:02.440
going to retain the same or steel frames that those
968
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:04.280
old hotels were built, and they're just going to turn
969
00:51:04.360 --> 00:51:05.000
down to the ground.
970
00:51:05.000 --> 00:51:06.599
And in fact, it was very.
971
00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:13.159
Emotional to watch them take down the Hotel Pennsylvania. Answer
972
00:51:13.239 --> 00:51:15.639
was finally Battle of Hilton.
973
00:51:17.079 --> 00:51:19.280
I have been in there several There's a million.
974
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:20.119
Great stories, all right.
975
00:51:20.199 --> 00:51:23.239
One great story is that I had my docs and
976
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:27.559
puppy and I used to bring Max up onto the
977
00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:29.199
roof of the Stadtlo Hilton.
978
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:29.920
At night after the show.
979
00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:33.320
I was older to go to the bathroom overlooking Manhattan
980
00:51:33.320 --> 00:51:34.039
and one.
981
00:51:33.920 --> 00:51:36.760
Time we used we saw the fireworks for July fourth,
982
00:51:36.760 --> 00:51:38.880
because Suing used to run his show there.
983
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:42.039
Interestingly enough, that might have also been over at the
984
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:43.599
mccallpen Hotel.
985
00:51:44.039 --> 00:51:46.920
Oh geez, I think you're right that had a roof too. Yeah,
986
00:51:47.079 --> 00:51:48.760
but you weren't supposed to go out on that one.
987
00:51:48.960 --> 00:51:49.159
No.
988
00:51:49.719 --> 00:51:54.079
But do you remember when we ran a show in
989
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.599
the pent top room of the Stadler Hilton and we
990
00:51:58.039 --> 00:52:03.000
accidentally blocked some doors with vendor tables. That was yes,
991
00:52:03.079 --> 00:52:05.119
And then the next thing, you know, the fire marshal
992
00:52:05.239 --> 00:52:08.360
comes and he says, well, you got to move those tables.
993
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:10.079
And we complied.
994
00:52:09.519 --> 00:52:13.199
Immediately, and he said and he said, all right, you
995
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:15.440
guys are going down to criminal Court in Manhattan.
996
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:16.159
I remember that.
997
00:52:16.199 --> 00:52:17.599
And we were like seventeen, you know.
998
00:52:17.639 --> 00:52:18.280
We were kids.
999
00:52:18.599 --> 00:52:20.800
That was how so we got We had got to
1000
00:52:20.800 --> 00:52:24.119
go down to criminal court and we had a we
1001
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:25.480
had to face the judge.
1002
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:28.000
It was a citation. We had to face the judge.
1003
00:52:28.480 --> 00:52:31.559
And I had to go to the bathroom.
1004
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:34.239
So I went into this is a criminal building, So
1005
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:35.239
I had to go to the bathroom.
1006
00:52:35.280 --> 00:52:36.960
And I was like going to the bathroom with criminals
1007
00:52:36.960 --> 00:52:39.800
all around this little kid, and with the judge.
1008
00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:44.000
I remember him saying, well you you, gentlemen, don't ever
1009
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:44.800
do this again.
1010
00:52:45.559 --> 00:52:48.960
And we're like, you know, yesterday, that's what we did,
1011
00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:53.559
and we didn't. Hopefully it wasn't intentional, I mean, you know,
1012
00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:56.119
but it's still scary, yeah, terrifying.
1013
00:52:56.440 --> 00:52:57.199
It was this huge car.
1014
00:52:57.519 --> 00:53:05.559
Give me a good New York hotel story boy. Then
1015
00:53:05.639 --> 00:53:06.920
you know that pent top.
1016
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:09.920
Room which is where we Oh, I remember that, I
1017
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:11.280
do have a good long room.
1018
00:53:11.360 --> 00:53:13.719
Yeah, okay. So we had a show.
1019
00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.679
One day was Star Trek when Chatner was the guest,
1020
00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:18.760
and one day was Bent Browner and we did a
1021
00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:20.039
force Kip show.
1022
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:22.719
You were there, Yeah, no, but okay.
1023
00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:26.519
So that was Saturday and Sunday, and I think Monday
1024
00:53:26.639 --> 00:53:29.199
night I had walked by the Madison Square Garden and
1025
00:53:29.199 --> 00:53:31.960
they were doing the reunion of the Jackson five with
1026
00:53:31.960 --> 00:53:32.719
Michael Jackson.
1027
00:53:32.840 --> 00:53:35.280
Was like this huge show with every start. So I
1028
00:53:35.400 --> 00:53:36.199
got tickets for.
1029
00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:36.880
That and saw it.
1030
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:41.639
And then the next morning was September eleventh.
1031
00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:46.000
With it was a day after and what are you
1032
00:53:46.039 --> 00:53:48.679
saying you were in Manhattan when that happened.
1033
00:53:48.840 --> 00:53:52.400
I was on a plane the day before leave it,
1034
00:53:52.440 --> 00:53:54.199
and the plane was delayed, but it was all the
1035
00:53:54.199 --> 00:53:59.239
same weekend our show and the Jackson think, which is
1036
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:02.960
like was September eleventh, but the Monday or the Tuesday,
1037
00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:03.920
I think it was Tuesday.
1038
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:05.039
Unbelievable.
1039
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.760
Yeah, so we got out on Monday, the day after
1040
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:10.599
the show, and then it happened Tuesday.
1041
00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:14.000
Ye I was home when it so, yeah, well that's crazy.
1042
00:54:14.239 --> 00:54:16.599
You know that that pen top room at the Statle
1043
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:19.719
of Hilton was also the site of the first Star
1044
00:54:19.800 --> 00:54:22.719
Trek convention, yes, which we were at, which was run
1045
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:27.800
by the Committee, And I was in that room sitting
1046
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:31.119
on the floor when Geen Roddenberry came up on stage
1047
00:54:31.360 --> 00:54:34.280
and I remember, well, first of all, the fact that
1048
00:54:34.320 --> 00:54:35.400
people could just be.
1049
00:54:35.519 --> 00:54:36.400
Sitting on floors.
1050
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:40.559
Every was branded. Yeah, that's not good anymore. Good for
1051
00:54:40.760 --> 00:54:41.440
Marshall Mojo.
1052
00:54:41.639 --> 00:54:44.000
Now we got away, well, I don't know if we
1053
00:54:44.039 --> 00:54:45.920
did a lot of things were done that day and
1054
00:54:45.920 --> 00:54:47.400
we were all kids in old hotels.
1055
00:54:47.440 --> 00:54:49.000
But I mean, it's kind of a It was a
1056
00:54:49.159 --> 00:54:52.960
historic moment for Star Trek. Who would have known sitting
1057
00:54:53.039 --> 00:54:57.159
on that floor watching Rodenberry in nineteen seventy two. That's
1058
00:54:57.159 --> 00:55:01.599
starting in nineteen seventy nine we had Walter Kinigg and
1059
00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:05.880
then began our succession into essentially being the Star Trek
1060
00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:09.360
Convention Company. I mean we defined the Star Trek Convention
1061
00:55:09.519 --> 00:55:11.000
marketplace at that time.
1062
00:55:11.519 --> 00:55:14.159
Now even so, we have a funny story about the
1063
00:55:15.199 --> 00:55:17.960
staffer hill. Yeah, okay, so we were young and we need
1064
00:55:18.000 --> 00:55:19.800
to save money and we had to use staff. So
1065
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:22.400
in those days, they actually had metal keys for the rooms.
1066
00:55:23.119 --> 00:55:25.480
So we would get the room and then we keep
1067
00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:27.760
the keys and then the next show. Because we were
1068
00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:30.199
running them all the time, we would see if the
1069
00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:32.800
room was open, you know, just knock and if no
1070
00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:34.800
one answered, you open it up and staff members would
1071
00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:38.360
sleep in them. Oh yeah, we said we might be
1072
00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:39.760
in business just because of the money.
1073
00:55:39.960 --> 00:55:43.760
Right now, You know that at the Commodore Hotel, they
1074
00:55:43.840 --> 00:55:47.599
used to give us the top floor all to ourselves,
1075
00:55:48.239 --> 00:55:51.840
and that was where Eisenhower ran his presidential campaign, I
1076
00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:55.800
believe in nineteen fifty six that yeah, he went, well,
1077
00:55:55.880 --> 00:55:57.960
did you know why they gave us the whole top
1078
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:03.239
floor of the Commodore. No, because the hvact didn't work
1079
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:08.239
and they couldn't sell those rooms. So unbeknownst to us,
1080
00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:10.519
because I used to say, well, these rooms are really high.
1081
00:56:11.440 --> 00:56:13.639
That's why we got it. Found out that there was
1082
00:56:13.719 --> 00:56:16.840
no I do remember a world globe. There was a
1083
00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:19.360
globe like you. The ti went to the bathroom on
1084
00:56:19.440 --> 00:56:22.119
Mavy's toilet. You also played Allen Jones piano.
1085
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:26.719
Well that was at the a of Palazzo. Ah, so
1086
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:28.920
we have tons of stories about the rear. This is
1087
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:31.079
a New York hotels. There was a couple of others.
1088
00:56:31.239 --> 00:56:34.119
There was the Diplomat that was falling apart. Remember that
1089
00:56:34.559 --> 00:56:36.360
the Diplomat was like you.
1090
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:38.800
You had to take a little elevator with a metal
1091
00:56:38.800 --> 00:56:40.639
thing to get up to the ball and we would
1092
00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:41.519
have a thousand people.
1093
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:45.000
There was a fight tolerant yeah, yeah, yeah.
1094
00:56:45.039 --> 00:56:47.639
And then they started using it as a welfare hotel,
1095
00:56:48.000 --> 00:56:49.840
which is when we were still running them.
1096
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:52.159
That's right, while we were running a show. There are
1097
00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:57.960
people in the bubble wrap yep. Then there was the
1098
00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:00.880
Taft Hotel where we rented a lot of shows. What
1099
00:57:01.639 --> 00:57:03.639
what was Second Sunday? That was Sulean's.
1100
00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:06.719
Sulne used to run a comic book convention every month,
1101
00:57:06.760 --> 00:57:09.360
and then he stopped, and then we started doing it.
1102
00:57:10.159 --> 00:57:12.760
However, in order for us to be able to book
1103
00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:16.880
space at the Taft Hotel, we had to offer a
1104
00:57:16.920 --> 00:57:20.880
little on the skin to Phil Sulan.
1105
00:57:21.480 --> 00:57:22.920
Did we sure did.
1106
00:57:23.440 --> 00:57:27.400
Will said, if you guys want to run the taft
1107
00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:30.360
because because he was still I think doing things there
1108
00:57:31.559 --> 00:57:32.280
all right, I don't.
1109
00:57:32.159 --> 00:57:34.800
Think we would have competed directly on a monthly thing.
1110
00:57:34.920 --> 00:57:36.960
He was okay with it as long as he had
1111
00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:39.239
a little skin in the game like that.
1112
00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:42.000
But also just wanted to remind you of the Americana,
1113
00:57:42.239 --> 00:57:43.000
which became.
1114
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:47.800
Yeah that's fifty second and seven. Yeah, yeah, we did
1115
00:57:47.840 --> 00:57:51.440
you shows there in the well. It wasn't the Sheridan Ballroom.
1116
00:57:51.679 --> 00:57:52.840
What was it? Oh?
1117
00:57:53.320 --> 00:57:55.559
Was the Americana Ballroom at that point, and then it
1118
00:57:55.760 --> 00:57:57.519
changed became the Sheridan Center.
1119
00:57:57.719 --> 00:57:57.880
Oh.
1120
00:57:57.960 --> 00:57:59.800
We also ran at the New York Shardan across the
1121
00:58:00.719 --> 00:58:02.440
that is correct.
1122
00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:06.079
So there was a slew of hotels that no longer exist.
1123
00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:09.960
Of course, there was the Roosevelt, which became notorious recently
1124
00:58:10.000 --> 00:58:15.800
as the hotel where the southern governors would ship uh yeah,
1125
00:58:16.960 --> 00:58:21.599
became a migrant hotel. We ran a creation Marvel Comics
1126
00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:26.519
uh anniversary party at the Roosevelt Hotel. You might remember
1127
00:58:26.559 --> 00:58:31.840
that we did that with our with our relationship with Marvel, But.
1128
00:58:31.760 --> 00:58:33.480
The Roosevelt we ran a lot of shows.
1129
00:58:33.639 --> 00:58:36.360
I remember we had the farce Kelly in there once, yeah,
1130
00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:37.360
and that was great.
1131
00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:43.000
And then I believe we did at maybe once at
1132
00:58:43.159 --> 00:58:43.840
the Billboard.
1133
00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:47.000
There was a builtmore in New.
1134
00:58:46.880 --> 00:58:49.840
York, one out here in La No, there was one in.
1135
00:58:49.800 --> 00:58:50.320
New York too.
1136
00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:52.960
There were four hotels part of that that were in
1137
00:58:53.000 --> 00:58:55.599
a square, and we ran I believe it through it.
1138
00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:58.559
I don't remember anyway, this for for our most of
1139
00:58:58.599 --> 00:59:01.280
our viewers, this is ancient. Three of these hotels don't
1140
00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:05.519
even exist anymore, but they were the foundation of our early.
1141
00:59:05.320 --> 00:59:08.320
Finish and also the hotel person in the nineteen seventy Yeah,
1142
00:59:08.320 --> 00:59:08.760
that was fun.
1143
00:59:08.840 --> 00:59:25.119
Okay, hey everybody, this is the Business of Creation with
1144
00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:29.199
Gary Berman and Ryan t Husk aka The Gary Berman
1145
00:59:29.320 --> 00:59:30.800
Show with Gary Berman?
1146
00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:32.880
How are you?
1147
00:59:33.000 --> 00:59:35.920
And by the way, and I asked, why did you
1148
00:59:35.960 --> 00:59:36.880
want to do this segment?
1149
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:39.239
I wanted to do it for one reason and one
1150
00:59:39.360 --> 00:59:42.199
reason only, to make fun of you for twenty minutes.
1151
00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:43.920
Oh what a relief.
1152
00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:47.280
And I know, no, Actually, I wanted to explore all
1153
00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:49.760
the things that we Adam and I kind of learned
1154
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.800
in the fifty four years we've been doing this. We
1155
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:55.719
made a lot of mistakes, but I want to try
1156
00:59:55.719 --> 00:59:58.480
to pass that along, and particularly those who are wanted
1157
00:59:58.519 --> 01:00:01.239
to start a business if that's something that about, because
1158
01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:04.440
not the internet has kind of leveled everything off. Everyone
1159
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.039
can get into it, but there are problems and mistakes
1160
01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:09.519
you can make, so I want to try.
1161
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:09.880
To pass those.
1162
01:00:10.239 --> 01:00:13.320
I think that's great because probably the most important thing
1163
01:00:13.320 --> 01:00:17.199
in business is making mistakes and learning from it. And
1164
01:00:17.559 --> 01:00:19.440
there are going to be so many people watching this
1165
01:00:19.559 --> 01:00:22.519
and listen to this that want to learn from the
1166
01:00:22.559 --> 01:00:27.000
fifty three years fifty four years of making mistakes and successes.
1167
01:00:27.519 --> 01:00:33.920
So first things first, you want to talk about what well.
1168
01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:38.079
Do you want this segment to be hilarious and really
1169
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:39.599
move quickly or do you want it to fit in
1170
01:00:39.639 --> 01:00:42.719
with the rest of the podcast. I don't want it
1171
01:00:42.719 --> 01:00:44.719
to be funny at all, but I think the viewers
1172
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:47.039
want it to be hilarious, so please be hilarious.
1173
01:00:47.719 --> 01:00:51.760
I chat okay. So I wanted to pass along two
1174
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:55.639
important things today. The first thing is to know who
1175
01:00:55.679 --> 01:00:58.880
you're talking to are really important. I've had people you know,
1176
01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:03.079
pitch me on s off services or products and they
1177
01:01:03.079 --> 01:01:06.840
don't know anything about creation, so you know that's no good.
1178
01:01:07.039 --> 01:01:09.440
So on the other hand, when you do know who
1179
01:01:09.480 --> 01:01:11.760
you're talking to, Like if I get hooked up some
1180
01:01:11.840 --> 01:01:14.159
way to talk to a producer, I kind of do
1181
01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:17.320
the research on who they are, where they grew up,
1182
01:01:18.679 --> 01:01:21.400
you know what college they went to, and the colleges
1183
01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.280
are really good. I just had a conversation. So the
1184
01:01:24.320 --> 01:01:28.159
guy went to University of Pennsylvania, my school, and so
1185
01:01:28.280 --> 01:01:29.440
that was a way in just.
1186
01:01:29.400 --> 01:01:30.519
By name dropping it.
1187
01:01:30.760 --> 01:01:33.079
And then I said, you know that school is worth
1188
01:01:33.119 --> 01:01:35.320
going to other than name dropping if I just did,
1189
01:01:35.400 --> 01:01:36.159
and he laughed.
1190
01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:36.480
And it was great.
1191
01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:39.599
So those connections that you can make in your head
1192
01:01:39.679 --> 01:01:41.800
and know what you're going to say when you're pitching
1193
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:45.199
something or talking to someone like important that I would
1194
01:01:45.239 --> 01:01:48.920
suggest that that's like a big deal. And the second
1195
01:01:48.960 --> 01:01:52.039
one is even like you'd think it's stupid to even
1196
01:01:52.119 --> 01:01:54.599
have to say, but looking the person.
1197
01:01:54.320 --> 01:01:56.679
In the eye that you're talking to. Had Like so
1198
01:01:56.719 --> 01:01:59.679
many people come into my office, people being an interviewed
1199
01:01:59.679 --> 01:02:02.719
for or again trying to sell something, and they're looking
1200
01:02:02.719 --> 01:02:03.880
out the window or.
1201
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:04.519
To the side.
1202
01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:08.960
And I know some people do have social anxiety or powers,
1203
01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:12.360
so you do have to discount that. But if you
1204
01:02:12.400 --> 01:02:15.519
can do it, you should, and almost like if you can't,
1205
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:17.480
you got to kind of express that in a way
1206
01:02:17.519 --> 01:02:21.480
because you won't get further at least with me. No,
1207
01:02:21.639 --> 01:02:25.960
I had to just tell someone here that's no, I'm
1208
01:02:26.000 --> 01:02:28.000
not that intimidating. Just talk to me and look at me,
1209
01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:28.880
because I think that's my.
1210
01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:29.400
Kind of nation.
1211
01:02:29.679 --> 01:02:32.559
So two simple things right off the bat, I think
1212
01:02:32.679 --> 01:02:34.880
will really be helpful for people starting out in new
1213
01:02:34.960 --> 01:02:38.239
business or just people trying to sell salespeople.
1214
01:02:38.360 --> 01:02:39.719
Most of all things.
1215
01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:42.159
Yeah, I mean, honestly, you are very intimidating.
1216
01:02:42.199 --> 01:02:45.760
Though you don't know this, but those people are quiver
1217
01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:49.280
and you walk by h we can't add that up.
1218
01:02:52.119 --> 01:02:55.960
Let's talk about the first part of that, knowing who
1219
01:02:56.280 --> 01:02:58.559
you're talking to or Yeah.
1220
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:01.199
Now with the internet, I mean, you can find out
1221
01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:06.119
anyone's career or background, so you see where the commonality is,
1222
01:03:06.159 --> 01:03:07.039
and then you know.
1223
01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:07.760
You lead with that.
1224
01:03:08.760 --> 01:03:10.400
Then you get into the business stuff. You know, you
1225
01:03:10.639 --> 01:03:14.679
often the personal. Have you ever made the mistake of
1226
01:03:14.880 --> 01:03:18.440
not knowing the person? No, but I'll tell you what
1227
01:03:18.440 --> 01:03:20.800
it was like I did, which is kind of worse.
1228
01:03:22.159 --> 01:03:24.880
So I was meeting with this big producer and a
1229
01:03:24.960 --> 01:03:27.440
lot of music business, like one of the legendary people.
1230
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.079
I figured out, you know, I'll try to find a connection,
1231
01:03:31.079 --> 01:03:33.559
and he had worked with the famous rock group according
1232
01:03:33.599 --> 01:03:38.920
to AI, So I did the research on AI. Yeah, well,
1233
01:03:38.960 --> 01:03:42.320
I know they came up with this credit that he had,
1234
01:03:42.360 --> 01:03:46.079
which is like the super famous credit, and the album
1235
01:03:46.159 --> 01:03:50.199
cover was done by you know, Frizetta, who was one
1236
01:03:50.239 --> 01:03:52.440
of most famous fantasy artists, was at one of our
1237
01:03:52.480 --> 01:03:56.639
early conventions. So I figured that's a connection. So I
1238
01:03:56.679 --> 01:03:58.800
had this big story about how he produced it and
1239
01:03:58.840 --> 01:04:00.679
he probably chose the artist to do it.
1240
01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:04.440
And you said I wasn't there, So that was terrible.
1241
01:04:04.599 --> 01:04:06.039
So you can't depend on AI.
1242
01:04:06.079 --> 01:04:08.920
At least now you still have to do it because
1243
01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:11.199
it just makes it. Oh and then you say I
1244
01:04:11.239 --> 01:04:14.239
think you might have made a mistake to AI.
1245
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:14.800
And then it pops up.
1246
01:04:14.880 --> 01:04:15.920
Yeah, I apologize.
1247
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:16.760
I wasn't mistake.
1248
01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:18.320
See AI is very polite.
1249
01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:19.239
That's yeah.
1250
01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:20.840
But you don't know to do it unless you know.
1251
01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:24.719
So now you know what's interesting. You say this, and
1252
01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:28.599
I'm running back in my memory. Not even a month ago,
1253
01:04:29.639 --> 01:04:32.400
you literally took your own advice. Still to this day,
1254
01:04:32.519 --> 01:04:35.639
fifty three plus years ago, fifty three plus years later,
1255
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:38.559
you were doing research on the people you were going
1256
01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:40.559
to have a meeting with, so that you could have
1257
01:04:40.760 --> 01:04:44.000
a connection. I won't give specific examples, but I do
1258
01:04:44.000 --> 01:04:46.239
you remember you were having a meeting with these people,
1259
01:04:46.239 --> 01:04:50.039
and before you had the meeting, you made a connection with.
1260
01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:55.320
Them, just as I said, thank you for everything. But
1261
01:04:55.679 --> 01:04:57.800
it's interesting coming from you after I said three se
1262
01:04:58.800 --> 01:04:59.280
it works.
1263
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:02.119
You're not good. That's it.
1264
01:05:02.360 --> 01:05:07.360
It's like one of those cheap documentary shows that every
1265
01:05:07.360 --> 01:05:10.280
time it comes back to a commercial that repieced the
1266
01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:13.360
flast five minutes and I'm like, didn't we just see that?
1267
01:05:14.079 --> 01:05:16.159
I'm sorry. If I do end up like that, I
1268
01:05:16.360 --> 01:05:20.000
just I would be very sad. No, you're really no.
1269
01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:24.679
Your podcasts are really interesting, especially that segment about the
1270
01:05:24.800 --> 01:05:26.119
carpet patterns at.
1271
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:29.119
The Real Okay, the carpet patterns at the Rio.
1272
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:32.480
For any Star Trek fan, this is actually a very
1273
01:05:32.519 --> 01:05:36.119
big story. People love people love the carpet patterns at
1274
01:05:36.199 --> 01:05:36.880
Dragon Con.
1275
01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:38.559
I've never been to Dragon Con.
1276
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:41.239
But you spent the whole hour on it. And did
1277
01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:43.920
you see Siak's face when you were talking about his
1278
01:05:44.000 --> 01:05:46.719
eyes around it happens? I mean, I think he may
1279
01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:49.320
want to leave on his own podcast kind of Home.
1280
01:05:50.000 --> 01:05:52.559
That's Sarah Lockton. He was Jake Cisco on start.
1281
01:05:52.719 --> 01:05:53.000
We know.
1282
01:05:54.320 --> 01:05:56.920
Also the carpet was very important on the enterprise and
1283
01:05:57.000 --> 01:05:58.519
rebuilding the Enterprise bridge.
1284
01:05:58.599 --> 01:06:01.719
All right, we're done. That's the thank you. Thank you,
1285
01:06:01.800 --> 01:06:05.599
I am the point and the many production people out there,
1286
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:05.960
thank you.
1287
01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:07.960
I'm out of here. That's the end.
1288
01:06:09.760 --> 01:06:10.239
That was it.
1289
01:06:10.360 --> 01:06:11.159
That's it.
1290
01:06:11.159 --> 01:06:15.920
It's called discussing the Business of Creation with Gary.
1291
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:17.360
It's the Gary Berman Show.
1292
01:06:18.039 --> 01:06:21.159
Well that's what people will call it for the you know,
1293
01:06:21.199 --> 01:06:22.039
it's like the Jack.
1294
01:06:21.880 --> 01:06:26.440
Benny Show, the Jack Benny program, Benny program.
1295
01:06:26.559 --> 01:06:28.880
And people used to go up to him. Sorry, people
1296
01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:32.000
used to talk to him and say, do you mind
1297
01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:34.920
that Don Wilson or Rochester gets all the laughs all
1298
01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:37.119
the time, And he said, what's the name of the show?
1299
01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:38.880
I thinish.
1300
01:06:40.639 --> 01:06:43.800
I can't not believe how much Jefferusso has actually done.
1301
01:06:43.960 --> 01:06:44.599
It's crazy.
1302
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:48.320
That man is uber talented and I feel so fortunate
1303
01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:49.960
that he joined us on our show.
1304
01:06:50.360 --> 01:06:51.360
Really excited about that.
1305
01:06:51.559 --> 01:06:55.559
Yeah, so we've got something pretty big for supernatural fans,
1306
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:56.320
don't we Yes.
1307
01:06:56.800 --> 01:06:59.400
So the next big show that we've got on our
1308
01:06:59.480 --> 01:07:02.320
twenty five tour, the Read So Far the Road Ahead,
1309
01:07:02.400 --> 01:07:06.039
is in Minneapolis April twenty fifth through twenty seventh at
1310
01:07:06.039 --> 01:07:09.440
the High Regency in Minneapolis, so if you are in
1311
01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:12.000
that area at all, you definitely need to come and
1312
01:07:12.400 --> 01:07:16.599
join us for a most excellent hunt in the area
1313
01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:17.639
of Minneapolis.
1314
01:07:17.679 --> 01:07:19.679
Supernatural fans they get that.
1315
01:07:20.480 --> 01:07:21.320
Let me tell you some of that.
1316
01:07:21.840 --> 01:07:23.079
Oh I get that reference.
1317
01:07:24.119 --> 01:07:28.039
Nobody does supernatural conventions like Creation does.
1318
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:29.920
Ope, We'll see you there.
1319
01:07:29.920 --> 01:07:35.599
Yes, and stay tuned for another episode of the Creation
1320
01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:39.719
Entertainment Podcast where we'll be interviewing some more great, great
1321
01:07:39.760 --> 01:07:43.079
people and talking about some great sci fi genre shows.
1322
01:07:43.119 --> 01:07:45.079
So stay tuned for more.
1323
01:07:45.679 --> 01:08:21.359
See you next time.
1324
01:08:07.039 --> 01:08:07.079
S