Rasheem yo Ali, what's up?
What's good brother,
Hello and welcome. This is Rasheem with the counter narrative. This is episode 20, and tonight we will be talking about being born brown informed, I have two very special guests with us tonight that's going to share all about that. I'm going to take a moment and allow them to introduce themselves. So let's start with you, Ali first, and I want you to first tell us what is your name, where are you from, and what is it about this particular topic that interests you?
Okay, so I am Ali Hassan. I am. I was originally born in Rockville, Maryland, so I'm from the United States, but all the rest of my family is from India, Hyderabad, India. It's in the centrally located and what is it that I want? What interests me? Well, so it was the last question, yeah,
what is it that interests you about this particular topic?
Okay, so we'll just basically, like, this era, for sure, is like a lot of there's like a lot of like, I don't know. It's just like negative things in the air about like, Muslim people and brown people. So just to shed positive light on it, kind of that's what I want to do. Thank
you for that. All right, for us, tell us where you're from and what is your interest in this topic. Okay.
I was born in lahar, Pakistan. I moved to the United States when I was about five or six years old, but I lived here my whole life. So what interests me about this subject is just that, you know, it's very clear painted on my face. You know, that I am a foreign person. So, you know, whatever I can sort of educate people about as far as my culture, because I know that I love other people's cultures, and, you know, I'm always curious about different religions and where people are from and what they do. So if I can do my part, then you know, I'm happy to do that.
Awesome. So you mentioned that for us, you mentioned that you came here when you were about five, and Ali, you're originally from here, like born here, but your family is from somewhere else. Ali, I'm gonna start with you. Tell me a little bit about the mix of your family culture with being in the United States. How do you blend those kind of two identities? So to speak.
Okay, so it's kind of funny growing up, I never really, I really didn't assimilate with, like, my Indian culture, because I was going to school in Montgomery County was, it's like, a very like, privileged area predominantly, like, white, Asian and Jewish families live there. So, like, I didn't have a lot of like people. Like, we call it brown people for, like, Indian Pakistani and, like, the South Asian descent. We call them brown people for anyone who didn't know, um, so I didn't really have any of that to, like, you know, like, set as an example for me. So I kind of just, like, tried to, like, not, like, get away from it. Just like, I just wasn't exposed to it as much, except for when my family was there, which is kind of the only people I had that was like, oh, like, the same kind as me. So aside from that, I didn't really assimilate until I got to college, and I was okay, there's a lot of brown people, and then I kind of got to get in with my culture more. Like, I started listening to more of like, of, like, our own music. I definitely watched more of our movies. But aside from that, I guess only the food aspect of the culture was in my life until like five, six years back.
Okay, so like growing up here, you were kind of, like, more used to this particular culture, but as you got older, you kind of had, like, increase your appreciation for, like, your your family, ancestral culture and background, and you started to actively look into that.
You're saying. When did I start doing that? Sorry, I'm
asking you if I'm understanding that correctly that.
Oh, yeah, exactly, you're right, okay. And,
um, for us, how about for you in your experience? Like, how do you balance the living here in America and also having this, this other culture? Like, how do you blend those? Yeah,
so, um, when I came over here was actually a complete culture shock for me, even though I was young, just because the way that we do things are very different. So like Pakistan is very traditional country. We have certain ways that we do things, and we're very, very family oriented. So coming over here, the first thing that I noticed was that everybody is very independent, and, you know, kids are out of the house at 18 years old. And. We've never had that sort of thing in our lives where, you know, even when you're older and you're married, sometimes you know, your family will buy an extremely big house, and there will be like, little tiny houses, or like, different sections of the house that will belong to the family, different family from the same one. So, um, you know, just the family thing was very different. And then just, you know, of course, the language barrier, and the thing is that you you have to just sort of take little pieces from each thing, and it honestly makes you an all around better and bigger person, because you're more understanding of how two completely opposite ends of the world work. And when you can interact with people in different ways through, you know, you you grow up, and you end up learning like, four or five different languages, because there's different dialects. So like, I'll speak Urdu, I'll speak Punjabi, I'll speak English, and then through, like Bollywood films, I'll learn Hindi. So it is and then, being Muslim, you have to be able to read and speak Arabic. So there's a lot of different things that you have to, like, understand and really be able to, you know, sort of comprehend when you're speaking to different people, when you're learning with different people. So it's all, it's all a learning experience. But, you know, I'm really thankful that we have sort of the best of both worlds.
So both you and Ali are have two different experiences and also two different generally cultural backgrounds, but both of you are Muslims. Can you talk a little bit about the impact or the significance of your religion and your beliefs in your culture. Who did you want Ali could go down?
Okay, so Well, Islam has always been a part of my life. People always tell me they're confused that I'm from India, but I'm not. I'm not practicing like a Hindu of religion, but I'm Muslim, because I guess there's not a lot of Muslims in India, but yeah, so Islam's always been a part of my life, just growing up, my parents, my grandparents, have always been, like, teaching me, like, different chapters in the Quran, the meaning of it. We've been learning how to pray and just like basic like etiquette of like, growing up is like all in the Quran. So we learn that, and that becomes like how we grow up. So religion has, mean, it shaped me. I'm active part of the MSA now, the Muslim Student Association. I'm the vice president of my school. So just continuing that is, like my way of kind of like spreading my religion to other people,
and what about you for
us? Yeah, I mean, similarly, Islam is not just like a religion, it's a way of life, and when you're growing up with it, when you're a lot of people know this with any religion that they're raised on, you don't notice it and you don't you sort of are questionable, but questionable about, you know, the beliefs behind it, because you're just taught that that's what you're supposed to believe in. So then the good thing about that was that when I came over here and I was surrounded by mostly Christian people, some Jewish, I was able to see what the differences are, but then also how similar they were. So, like, you know, people were telling me about what Christmas was and everything, you know, that was brand new to me. But then realizing that, Oh, Jesus, like, we have Jesus in our religion as well, Abraham, we have that as well, you know. So just the different narratives are the same across the different the three different Abrahamic religions, and just seeing that, okay, well, everybody sort of believes the same thing, but it's just our culture is different, and that's what people don't realize a lot of the times. It's just, it's cultural differences, and not as much religious but Islam always, sort of, you know, taught us to love our neighbors, whatever religion they are, respect our mothers, respect women in our lives, and just sort of really be humble and like, you know, when we pray and stuff our head has to touch the ground. So it's always kept me, you know, literally and, you know, metaphorically, like if you're speaking, you know, with the ground. So that's what I really, really love about and I'm always appreciative of my religion along with other people's religions. For that reason, it's just very cool that, you know, it can sort of hold you down like that, and it can be a really spiritual and personal
thing. I agree.
Ali, what would you say are some of the biggest misconceptions? One tell me about being brown and foreign, and also, what are some common misconceptions that you've experienced about your religion and your beliefs?
Okay? Well, being brown and foreign. I don't want to mix the two religion and culture, because that happens quite, quite often. So I'm going to speak on. Separately. So being brown is kind of just like the stereotypes that you get, you know, like, he probably owns a 711 smells like curry, doesn't use deodorant, so, like all that, those are just misconceptions. I guess I don't, I don't really, I've never really been, like, faced with that kind of stuff, because I've always, like, been, like, an Americanized person like that has never been like a thing like, I'm not, like, super foreign. I don't know what that's even, what that even means, but so that's just been like that. But in terms of, like, religion, can you reiterate that question one
more time? Yeah, so what? What have been some of the common misconceptions about your religion, like people here you're a Muslim. What are some things that they may assume that may not be true?
I came across, I'm gonna, this is a kind of like a little story, but I came across a girl from my school, and she didn't know about the Muslim Student Association, I told her, and she was like, Why do you guys even have that? And I was like, I mean, I just made it as a joke. And I was like, so everyone doesn't think we're part of ISIS. And I just, I think that might be a misconception, especially like in today's election, we have, like, a whole bunch of hate being spewed out for no reason, really, but I guess now it's more apparent.
So what about you for us?
Yeah, like Elise said, the culture and religion are very, very different, and I think people sort of associate them together. The first and most important thing is that because you're brown doesn't mean you're associated with a certain religion. So you have, you know, Pakistani people, which are mostly going to be Muslim, then Indians. It's like you have, like, Ali is a Muslim. Then you have Hindus. You have Sikhs. And one of the misconceptions with the cultural thing is like that we all wear turbans, and that is something that is a religious belief behind Sikhs, which are a completely different religion than Hindus and Muslims. But then with the like, with the cultural aspect, Pakistanis are closer to Indians, even though a lot of a lot of the time they're Hindus. But for the most part, Muslims are nothing like the whole, I guess what you would say, the brown culture. So you'll have like the Arabs, Palestinians and Saudis and Egyptians, Moroccans, you know, they're, they have nothing to do with our culture at all. Where they don't, they're not with the Bollywood films. They don't speak the same languages as us. So it's like being Pakistani. You get like, a lot of mixture from both the Arab world and then you get a lot of mixture from the Indian world. So with the religion, it's like the religion is very, sort of clear and cut, what we believe, what we don't, of course, like any other religion, when you read it, it's a very personal thing, so you are going to interpret it exactly how you sort of want it to be interpreted. So, I mean, you could take anything and twist it in exactly the way that you want it to be twisted. Like I had said before, a lot of the scripture from the Quran is the exact same as something you'd find in the Bible or the Torah. But then the thing is, when you are when there's people living in any sort of impoverished area, for example, Baltimore, we're from Baltimore, and you see that there will be a rise in violence and crime because people don't have money, because people are mistreated, because they're living in bad conditions. So in the same way, you have people on the other side of the world who are getting bombed, and have drones in their lives almost every single day, and there'll be families and kids, so a lot of the times when they see things like that going on, then they are more inclined to turn towards a negative side of the religion, where people can come up to and say, Hey, do you see these drones? You see what's going on? Why don't we fight back against what this is in the name of the religion? And that way they use religion as the bait. So it's not, I mean, it's not as much as a misconception as it is an understanding that people should, you know, and it's not their fault. They're just not educated about this, that this occurs. So if we were able to sort of teach, you know, the other side of the story in our schools and stuff like how we learn about Thanksgiving and in elementary school. Were told that, you know, Columbus came over and he had a nice, friendly meeting with the Native Americans. He knew everything was good, but, like, the real story is the whole slaughterings and everything, and that's what we are not truthful about. So if we were, you know, honest about what's going on exactly and what the reasons are where we messed up as well. People would be more educated in that way. And I mean, that's what we have to just sort of continue doing, just being the best people that we can, to sort of show people, you know, the types of people we are, instead of just telling them and having them believe us, really good,
since both have kind of been in the US for a while, like probably from what I'm understanding from what you're sharing with me most of your lives. What is it like when you go back to your home country, where your parents are from, and visit How are you received? I have a friend who is originally from Jamaica, and she didn't come here until college, but when she goes back home, they're like, Oh, look at that American. Sometimes she feels a little bit of a way about it, because she feels like she's not quite she said, one of her first moments where she felt different was will where she actually recognized in her family members that they had an accent. She had never recognized an accent before, and she recognized the accent so Ali, I'll start with you. Tell me about what is your experience like when you go back home to visit?
Okay, so I haven't been back very many times. I went in 1999 I went in 2005 maybe, and then I went most recent, 2007 so it's been almost 10 years. But even then, I still remember, like very clearly, only my grandparents live there now. And there is, there is the accent that very much so there is, I don't have that accent anymore, or or not that I did, I'm not sure. But like you said, look at that American that's literally, like, how they treat you, like you can do whatever you want to fit in. Like I we have our traditional dresses the show acamese. It's like the longer up to your knees is the top, and then, like very like Aladdin, like pants called the shawarkamis, right? So you can wear that around, and people will still, like, know how that you walk differently, or you talk differently, and you will just be targeted by, like, anybody. Even when we go shopping, we have like, this thing where, like, the price of the thing is not really the price you're supposed to pay, because you're supposed to, like, ask them to bring it down a whole bunch. And if you're from America, they know they charge you, like, double no matter what you do, you know, they just automatically think you have money. So, I mean, there's a there's a very clear difference, like, you walk, you talk, you this, the food you eat is like, so different. So every time I go, it's like, I'm a tourist in my own city, so that's that. And what
about you for us, what is it like when you go back home and visit? Yeah,
so a very similar experience. It's in America, come to Pakistani and Pakistan, I'm too American, so you definitely, you everybody knows, and you know, our cousins always make fun of us because they're like, you're trying too hard, or you're not, you know, it's never gonna work, but, um, it's really fun. You know, every time we go back, it's like, just like I said, our in our culture, there's a lot of the whole family thing. So, you know, big families, and you're treated by everybody, like you're a part of the family, whether it's like the guy down the street selling, you know, kebabs, or, you know, just different people that are out in the street just having, you know, living life, and you see all the art and culture and family everywhere. So it's always been a really humbling experience, I would say, just to see you know what the roots are where we grew up, and it's always important to sort of give back.
So for us, you mentioned family. Tell me about like, Do you ever feel any type of okay, let's say this. How important is it to you or to your parents or your family that you marry someone with your same cultural background?
I think for most people living anywhere, the parents would prefer that. It's something that they're, you know, familiar with, that they're comfortable with. So my parents are the same way, where they want they would prefer somebody that is in our culture. But um, you know, in our religion, we're allowed to marry anybody, that's whether they be Muslim, Christian or Jewish. You are allowed to do that, as long as they are practicing very faithfully in their own religion as well. Um. So that's something that I'm not thinking about right now, just because I'm so
busy, no pressure,
yeah, but, you know, I my mom and I have these talks here and there, and she just, my parents are very open mind, and they just want us to be happy, and they want, they want us to have the right person. So they're just, they're just sometimes, you know, always being overprotective or, like, overly caring. But they're my parents, so you know, whatever I do, they're gonna be they're gonna trust me for it.
Yeah, so I'm the sorry. Were you gonna say something? No, I'm just gonna ask you. Go ahead. Okay, so, yeah, similarly, culturally and religiously, there's, like, I guess it goes two ways, and I guess there's a double standard in that. But like, like Frost said, religiously, you're you can marry anyone, as long as they're practicing, because religion doesn't have a race, or religion, or religion doesn't have a race, so it can be anyone. But culturally, I think more or less, we look at the family they come from, rather than the individual, which is weird. So if, like, you come from a good home, like, all that stuff should, like, make you a good person, so that you can be, like, eligible for, like, your son or daughter. And it's like, always, with the parents approval, we it's like, very rarely that you have like, like, someone bring, I don't know, maybe, but this is just from my understanding. Like, like, it would be very rare that, like, a son or a daughter would like, be like, hey, like, I want to marry this person without their parents, like, being like, okay with it,
okay. Because the parents blessing
would be like, ultimately the most important, because family is so important. So like, the parents blessing would be like, such a priority for like, I know for me, and I can say that for like, my siblings too. For example,
you mentioned that you have siblings. Ali, you have a
sister. I'm the middle of two sisters. Yes, sisters,
I mean, and I know you can't, like totally and completely, necessarily speak for them, but in your observation, have they had different experiences with you being brown and foreign and also female um? Or is that, do you notice anything different with that in terms of gender,
um, in terms of religion? Yeah, my younger sister wears a hijab, and my older sister, she doesn't wear a hijab by choice. So I'm sure they both go through like that, like little internal struggle on, like, you know, like how I'm seen in the public eye, like my older sister, how I'm seen to, like other Muslims that are wearing hijab and I'm not, and my younger sister that, like, you know, that she wears hijab, and like how she's seen to the public, because it's like, you know, it's like, the first thing people notice about her is that she's wearing a hijab. So it's like that, like, outward, like, you know, so I guess, so, I guess, I guess, by gender, it matters
for us. Um, you mentioned, I know both of you guys are in school. Um, so with being in school, and you are in Baltimore, which has a large African American population, but, um, I don't remember what was this? What was the college you went? You go to, I go
to Towson University. Okay, I'm at the University of Baltimore.
Okay, so Towson University, University of Baltimore, so they have a, I think they probably have a somewhat good mix of students in terms of, like, both of those schools, yeah. What? What has your experience been like in terms of not just mixing with others, with students from like other backgrounds and other ethnicities. But what are some of the common questions that they ask you, like some some frequently asked questions, if you will, that you usually are answering when you're at school.
Let's see, I guess people, at first hand, are sort of afraid to ask questions, so I try to put it out there, you know, I'm very, I am a very cultural person, just because I love to, you know, use what I know to better understand other people and express myself. So then, when I am in a conversation with people, they sort of just ask me, you know, like, what are the same type of questions you're really asking honestly, like, What are your experiences? And what does you know? I heard this on the news. So is this true or, like, you know what? It's usually other minority students like you mentioned lots of African Americans, good mix of like Spanish people, and I think that comes from understanding each other's struggles and which, which is one of the one of the main things that you have to do when you're a minority is not just sort of put yourself in this. Box. And, you know, worry about yourself, because you know that quote from Martin Luther King, where he says Injustice anywhere is injustice. So it's all, I forget how the quote goes, but um, you know, and that's that's so true, because you see things like what's happening in a country like Syria, and from our experiences of what happened in Baltimore, where everybody was labeling Baltimore, labeling Baltimore as this terrible place, we can see how people in Syria like we can sympathize with them. So when it's when it's anybody being held down in any way, it's just important that we worry about everybody you know and recognize each other's struggles and everything like that. So I like that, you know, everybody sort of, when you have a mixed school like that, those are things that you have to talk about when, when it's a few people, like in my high school or middle school and stuff, and it's just very much, you know, a suburban neighborhood with a lot of white people, it's something that's like, Okay, if one, one or two people out of the entire school are facing a problem, it's not prioritized. But when it's a whole bunch of mixed students in a school, then these are the things that do have to be addressed. And even at our school, we have struggles like that. So you know that's always important. And what
about you? Ali,
so yeah, University of Baltimore, we're, I mean, it's very diverse. It's cool seeing like a lot of different, like, I don't know, we have, like, a good mix of students. I'm sorry, can repeat your question one more time. No, no worries.
So just basically, what are some of the questions being in an environment with people from diverse backgrounds in school, what are some of the frequently asked questions that you get? Okay,
so frequently asked questions, a lot of people like, for us that they're scared to ask questions, but when they when they do, they're kind of just like, I know, like, a lot of times, like, it would be like Ramadan, and people like, you know, how do you fast for 30 Days Are you allowed to drink water? Like, you know, like, how long are these like, how long do you have to do? Like, what can you not do? What are you limited? And then I feel like that gets the conversation going. Because, you know, like, they become very interested. And that's like, speaks volumes. Because I feel like foreign people like, stick together for some reason, I don't know, but it's a lot easier for me to like, relate to like, someone who's foreign, rather than someone who's like, it's kind of something, yeah, I know, but that's how it is. I think.
No, I get that. I totally get that. We
have, like, we have an event coming up through our MSA is called the Black Lives Matter, and the Muslim community integrating like that through like diversity. That's another way that we can, that we reach out.
Wow, that sounds interesting. I definitely want to, want you to share more about that later and share, like a link or what, whatever information
school. But, yeah, we will be okay. Awesome,
awesome. So one of the questions that I have for you, for both of you, Ashley and we can start with you, for us, it this is just general, and whatever you have to say about this is fine. How do you feel about this election?
So for me, politics aren't really a way that I'm going to, you know, let dictate my life, just because you know this, this country is so great because everybody is able to voice their opinion and do what they like, and, you know, strive for greatness no matter what. So you know, when there's somebody in charge of everything, they're not truly in charge, and it's always comes down to what the people have to say. And so for me, it's like, you know, if there is somebody up there saying certain things about a certain group of people, and I think we know who we're talking about here, you know, that doesn't, that doesn't really say much about that person as much as it does about the people voting for him. So not as much of we'll say a monster as you know the people that are coming to his rallies and are, you know, acting upon what he's saying. I think you know you have to be when you're listening to anybody. You have to be aware of what they're saying. And it doesn't matter if I like the person or not, like I follow Donald Trump on Twitter because I want to know what he's saying. I I look into his speeches, I look up his background. I want to make sure I understand where he's coming from, and he has a reason for saying the things he does. So I need to understand that before I can make a judgment on somebody. And you know, at the end of it again, like I said, before it comes down to the education. So when you have people. People that are sort of it's more towards like the southern states, I guess, where people are born in a certain place, they're raised on a certain religion and a culture, and they're always taught to believe one thing, and they never have somebody of a different ethnicity or religion in their life. It's very easy for them to put a stamp on something that they don't know much about. So if I grow up in an area where it's all, you know, whites, for example, and I've never met a black person, and I see the news, I can say very easily that, okay, well, this is what I'm seeing about black people, and so that's all I know. But until I actually get to meet one, maybe I befriend one, then I would never know what their experiences are and how normal and similar our lives are. So, you know, just tying it in with politics, it's the same thing. I can't control, I can vote, and I think everybody should vote, and it's important that you look into both sides, because it's like Hillary Clinton is not doing any more justice for like, our group of people that Donald Trump is, you know. So you have to be aware of both parties. You can't just say, Okay, we have to pick between the lesser of two evils. There are also other candidates, you know? There's
right. Now, I think, is, you know,
if you, if you want to, for example, look into war, Gary Johnson wants to completely pull out of war. So it's like, you have to consider the different options. You should vote, because this is your country, and that's, that's what you have to remember, is like the person that's in charge, it's not just their country, it's your country as well. It's just as much my country as it is yours. So just if I'm not educating myself on all this stuff, then how do I expect somebody else who knows nothing about me to educate themselves as well? So again, it just comes down to education, education, education.
No, I appreciate that, especially the aspects of looking at both sides and someone in the chat, Benjamin Wright said they have the same values that most blacks or African Americans have wonderful dialog, truly wonderful. Much respect for my Muslim brothers and sisters, is what he said. So Ali, tell me, has anything surprised you about this particular election or campaign, or what are your general thoughts around it?
Um, surprising, yeah, just, I mean, I don't have to say just the fact that one candid made it as far as he did, but it goes back to a frost thing. And I like how he was putting importance on the education part of it, because I truly believe in that, like, and like, even in a recent thing, it was like how most of the Trump supporters are from like, uneducated places, and that's like the main reason I was gonna go. I was gonna go into, what is it called, how just I feel like they've just made a mockery of this, like, politic, like system, that they turn into, like, kind of a reality TV show, and it's more about the people who are voting for him, because it doesn't say, like, just like a frost, it doesn't say much about him, but like, the people that are voting for him, and he's, like, spewing this, so the people who are going to only react to this, and the less education that they have, the more they're going to have a reason to believe. And the Oh, like, you know, like, whatever it's on, like, Fox News, quote, unquote, they can just take that and twist how they wanted to. But my thing is, I disagree with for us on this one, but I think everyone should vote, but Hillary Clinton isn't doing a lot for our group of people. Yes, but a third party vote is kind of like a no vote, because it doesn't really get recognition. And I'm in Maryland. We're like, a democratic state, so like, a lot of people use that like, Hey, don't vote. Your vote doesn't count in Maryland, because it's like, Donald Trump's not going to win. But like, people have that mentality throughout the whole election, and he's made it this far. So I think, like a vote for a third party or a no vote is a vote for Trump. So as like a Muslim, I feel like it is the better thing to do is to choose the lesser the two evils and vote for Hillary Clinton, rather than do a third party, which would be like, you know, I don't agree with like everyone's morals and like beliefs that they have, but I wouldn't be okay with Donald Trump with four years of additional, like spewing of hate and policies releasing and just like saying vulgar things that he thinks he's in that he's allowed to say, because it's like, it's like A kind of like a, like an ethics thing, like, how can you believe in someone who says these certain things? Or, how can you follow someone and just continue to make excuses for him, after excuse after excuse, knowing the things that he's saying, all the things that are coming into light now. And like, because everyone sees him as a joke, but like, his voter. Are so dedicated that they will be the ones voting, and the people who are like, lopsided in their vote don't know what to do, they'll kind of like, take themselves away from the situation. You know, I don't want to vote for anyone, but I think that's kind of
wrong. Okay, definitely good point. Thank you for sharing that. So, um, tell me, and we can start with you, for us, as we talk about the impact of voting and how there's sometimes misconceptions and just so many different things. Have you experienced any type of discrimination, being born Brown, being foreign, being Muslim. Have you experienced any type of discrimination around either of those?
Personally, I haven't. I think a lot of what I see is online, really, and that's easy for people to sit behind a computer and, you know, say what they want to, but sort of just having the positions that I've had in my life, I've been really blessed to, you know, be the leader of a lot of different things, whether it be a sports team or different organizations. I've been put in a lot of leadership positions. So just how I said before, like just always expressing the person that I am through my culture and my religion and just being myself, people are always able to see that, hey, this is a normal guy, and, you know, I like him, and he's always has a positive thing to say. So this is if, if his religion and his culture taught him that, then there can't be anything wrong with that. So yeah, I haven't, I haven't faced anything like that, just because I try to always be, you know, a positive influence on people. And my experience is always that if I don't know something about somebody, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to learn it so I try to be the person that I want to befriend as well.
Awesome. And you. Ellie, this is
about the election specifically. I know this is
just, just in general. Like, Have you, have you experienced any type of discrimination around any of those three areas, whether it's religion, being brown or being foreign?
Being Brown, not so much, but very much so after, like, September 11 in high school, I used to be called terrorist and like, it didn't really bother me a lot until I started thinking about it, like now, with the certain labels that are being thrown around, because back then, I was kind of just, like, kind of just trying to be in with the crowd and not like, you know, say anything out of place, where I would be like, you Know, Like, scrutinized for in a certain way. But I certain way. But at the mosque, I guess people are, like, very like, hesitant to like vote, because they think, like, you know, like Muslims in the government, that kind of doesn't mix well. So they're always kind of not trying to be involved. But like, way to make a change and to like, help What's your situation is to get involved in the policy making and like, you know, lobbying for what you want to happen. Because one way to do that in this country is to like, you know, write a bill, or, like, get like, some light shown on it. Because, I mean, you can do stuff online and show like awareness. But in terms of actual like policy making and change, it's like done through the government. So it's important for like Muslims, especially, to like be involved in that, to make change. Ali,
tell me what are the spaces wherein you feel most affirmed, most encouraged, and yeah, most encouraged and most affirmed in your identity, in the whole of who you are as a human being. I would
definitely have to say my mask. I was probably two years old when it was being built. So I've been there from the start of the community. I've watched it grow. I went to the Sunday school there. I know all the youth kids. We have our own youth group. We go on like, we have like camping trips. We have like, you know, like youth like basketball. We have like youth movie. We have bonfires every year. So I've gotten close to them over 24 years, and they've all just been kids living in my area. And I know their families very well. I know them very well, and a lot of my own family goes to that mosque, so I kind of call that my second home, and I assimilate very well there. I feel the most like at home, at peace and just myself when I'm at my mosque and it's like, it's like an Indian and Pakistani mosque. So everyone there is, like my own kind. So to it, and
what about you? For
us, for me, the places that I feel the most affirmed, I guess, is I'm an artist. So any place where there's other sort of artists, or, you know, people that are. Uh, you know, interested in the arts, just because these types of people are often open minded, they're wanting to learn, they're wanting to be inspired, so they're always open to new ideas. And I think sometimes when you're around your own group of people, like I, I like being put in really bizarre situations, or, like, uncomfortable spaces, because then it, then it makes you it really shows your true colors, because sometimes it's very easy to hide behind, you know, your own groups, and it is nice to to be with your own types of people, because it's it's comfortable again, but sometimes people use that for the wrong reason, and it's very easy to just sort of stay in that comfortable zone, but you have to step outside of that sometimes, and that's what like when you're in an artistic space. For me, that's really valuable, because you meet people that are like, whoa, totally not my culture, totally not my religion, like you would be banned from these things or whatever you know, it opens your mind up, and it lets you see you know, the stories behind People, where they come from and what they're about.
Ali, what are some things? Or are there any things from our discussion tonight where you feel like you know you didn't ask this question, and I really want to get this out, or you didn't ask this question, and I really think we should have talked about this. Is there anything like that has come up for you?
I Um, hmm. Maybe the distinction on like cultural and culture and religion, because I guess that was like, I noticed that it was like, grouped together in your question, and I answered it separately. So I guess I could go a little bit more into like, the difference between culture and religion. Okay, go ahead. So culture is basically like, I'm from India and France is from Pakistan. But we follow the same religion, but we follow it very differently. Also he, like, we have, we're part of two different sects, like he, I'm part of the shia sect, and he is part of the Sunni sect, and I guess that plays into practicing the religion differently. But I mean, it's all essentially the same thing. We both pray five times a day. We all keep our fast. We visit the Kaaba in Mecca, and all that stuff is still part of the religion, but just the culture is kind of like your like housekeeping, kind of how you're growing up and, like, the way you go about doing things, but the religion is like, like, like the guide, or like the the direct, the user manual, basically. And the way to go about it could be a number of different ways, and it's important not to get that mixed up, because it makes other people from a different culture feel like they're not practicing what they're doing, right. But in reality, it could be righteous, not how they do things where they're from. Other than that, I think you hit a lot of points,
and you for us.
No, I mean, I think that was a good discussion. I just try to remind people that it's, it's not always, you know, sob stories and bad experiences. I'm always extremely thankful that I grew up the way I did through any sort of struggles. But also the privilege, you know, we've always been, I think this country is great, um, because of the privilege that you do get. You know, you're you're allowed to do whatever you want. There's no, um, there's no, like, it's not decided where you're gonna go from where you're born, you could be a waiter and then the next day being a movie star. And that's, that's only opportunities that you get in this country. And I think that's what sometimes we forget when we're sort of fighting about, you know, all the discrimination and who's running for president and stuff. You still have to remember that as an individual, because this country is so independent. You You can still live the life that you want to live. And if you want to, if you don't want to, sort of follow this standard corporate structure, you don't have to. You can make your own way. You can be an entrepreneur, and you can be an artist. You can do whatever you want to. And that's, that's what's awesome. You don't have to care about money. You don't have to care about the things that other people care about, and you can, you can truly be what you want to be. You can give back to everything that you came from, and you can help other people out and and do it all in a positive light. So, yeah,
awesome. Super fantastic. I want to thank both of you for taking the time. Time to come on the counter narrative. Thanks to everyone who is watching live. For the some of you have who have engaged on the chat. Before I let you guys go, and before I let everyone go, I want to give both of our guests the opportunity to for them to let everyone know how they can get in contact with you, Allah, I'm sorry. Allah, Ali, if like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, website, how can they reach out to you? Or what is the mode of communication that you don't mind sharing for people to reach out with you?
You can. I have all that social media, but I don't. You can find me on Facebook. Ali Hassan, a l, I last name H, A, S, a n. That's probably my best form of communication. Is Facebook. I have a Instagram that's true chains, dot 535, and that's basically it love for my contact, all right,
and you for us. Um, yeah. So as I mentioned, I'm an artist on everything, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, everything. I'm ferocity, F, A, R, o, s, t, y, I make cool little videos that are cultural and have ties between a lot of different things. They're fun. They're music videos. It'll be like comedy skits and stuff like that. So I try to, just like I said, I try to educate people and sort of let ourselves make fun of ourselves. So to make it, you know, not so serious, they've got, like altogether, a couple million views. I've gotten awards from them, from like the former governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley, and been on TV, radio, different things for those videos. So I encourage people to check them out and pass them on again. It's, I'm on social media. As for Austin, you can look that up on YouTube. Please fill it for us. It's, F, A, R, o, s, t, y,
and he actually has a music video called Brown and foreign that kind of inspired. Foreign.
Yeah,
that is extremely funny. I like it. I'll probably share the link. If you send the link to me again, I'll probably put it attached to this to get to it. Thank you again, both of you for coming on and just like sharing your story, sharing your narrative, and your having
us. No, yeah, thanks for the opportunity. This was great. I
appreciate it. All right. Y'all have a good night. All right. Peace. You.
What's good brother,
Hello and welcome. This is Rasheem with the counter narrative. This is episode 20, and tonight we will be talking about being born brown informed, I have two very special guests with us tonight that's going to share all about that. I'm going to take a moment and allow them to introduce themselves. So let's start with you, Ali first, and I want you to first tell us what is your name, where are you from, and what is it about this particular topic that interests you?
Okay, so I am Ali Hassan. I am. I was originally born in Rockville, Maryland, so I'm from the United States, but all the rest of my family is from India, Hyderabad, India. It's in the centrally located and what is it that I want? What interests me? Well, so it was the last question, yeah,
what is it that interests you about this particular topic?
Okay, so we'll just basically, like, this era, for sure, is like a lot of there's like a lot of like, I don't know. It's just like negative things in the air about like, Muslim people and brown people. So just to shed positive light on it, kind of that's what I want to do. Thank
you for that. All right, for us, tell us where you're from and what is your interest in this topic. Okay.
I was born in lahar, Pakistan. I moved to the United States when I was about five or six years old, but I lived here my whole life. So what interests me about this subject is just that, you know, it's very clear painted on my face. You know, that I am a foreign person. So, you know, whatever I can sort of educate people about as far as my culture, because I know that I love other people's cultures, and, you know, I'm always curious about different religions and where people are from and what they do. So if I can do my part, then you know, I'm happy to do that.
Awesome. So you mentioned that for us, you mentioned that you came here when you were about five, and Ali, you're originally from here, like born here, but your family is from somewhere else. Ali, I'm gonna start with you. Tell me a little bit about the mix of your family culture with being in the United States. How do you blend those kind of two identities? So to speak.
Okay, so it's kind of funny growing up, I never really, I really didn't assimilate with, like, my Indian culture, because I was going to school in Montgomery County was, it's like, a very like, privileged area predominantly, like, white, Asian and Jewish families live there. So, like, I didn't have a lot of like people. Like, we call it brown people for, like, Indian Pakistani and, like, the South Asian descent. We call them brown people for anyone who didn't know, um, so I didn't really have any of that to, like, you know, like, set as an example for me. So I kind of just, like, tried to, like, not, like, get away from it. Just like, I just wasn't exposed to it as much, except for when my family was there, which is kind of the only people I had that was like, oh, like, the same kind as me. So aside from that, I didn't really assimilate until I got to college, and I was okay, there's a lot of brown people, and then I kind of got to get in with my culture more. Like, I started listening to more of like, of, like, our own music. I definitely watched more of our movies. But aside from that, I guess only the food aspect of the culture was in my life until like five, six years back.
Okay, so like growing up here, you were kind of, like, more used to this particular culture, but as you got older, you kind of had, like, increase your appreciation for, like, your your family, ancestral culture and background, and you started to actively look into that.
You're saying. When did I start doing that? Sorry, I'm
asking you if I'm understanding that correctly that.
Oh, yeah, exactly, you're right, okay. And,
um, for us, how about for you in your experience? Like, how do you balance the living here in America and also having this, this other culture? Like, how do you blend those? Yeah,
so, um, when I came over here was actually a complete culture shock for me, even though I was young, just because the way that we do things are very different. So like Pakistan is very traditional country. We have certain ways that we do things, and we're very, very family oriented. So coming over here, the first thing that I noticed was that everybody is very independent, and, you know, kids are out of the house at 18 years old. And. We've never had that sort of thing in our lives where, you know, even when you're older and you're married, sometimes you know, your family will buy an extremely big house, and there will be like, little tiny houses, or like, different sections of the house that will belong to the family, different family from the same one. So, um, you know, just the family thing was very different. And then just, you know, of course, the language barrier, and the thing is that you you have to just sort of take little pieces from each thing, and it honestly makes you an all around better and bigger person, because you're more understanding of how two completely opposite ends of the world work. And when you can interact with people in different ways through, you know, you you grow up, and you end up learning like, four or five different languages, because there's different dialects. So like, I'll speak Urdu, I'll speak Punjabi, I'll speak English, and then through, like Bollywood films, I'll learn Hindi. So it is and then, being Muslim, you have to be able to read and speak Arabic. So there's a lot of different things that you have to, like, understand and really be able to, you know, sort of comprehend when you're speaking to different people, when you're learning with different people. So it's all, it's all a learning experience. But, you know, I'm really thankful that we have sort of the best of both worlds.
So both you and Ali are have two different experiences and also two different generally cultural backgrounds, but both of you are Muslims. Can you talk a little bit about the impact or the significance of your religion and your beliefs in your culture. Who did you want Ali could go down?
Okay, so Well, Islam has always been a part of my life. People always tell me they're confused that I'm from India, but I'm not. I'm not practicing like a Hindu of religion, but I'm Muslim, because I guess there's not a lot of Muslims in India, but yeah, so Islam's always been a part of my life, just growing up, my parents, my grandparents, have always been, like, teaching me, like, different chapters in the Quran, the meaning of it. We've been learning how to pray and just like basic like etiquette of like, growing up is like all in the Quran. So we learn that, and that becomes like how we grow up. So religion has, mean, it shaped me. I'm active part of the MSA now, the Muslim Student Association. I'm the vice president of my school. So just continuing that is, like my way of kind of like spreading my religion to other people,
and what about you for
us? Yeah, I mean, similarly, Islam is not just like a religion, it's a way of life, and when you're growing up with it, when you're a lot of people know this with any religion that they're raised on, you don't notice it and you don't you sort of are questionable, but questionable about, you know, the beliefs behind it, because you're just taught that that's what you're supposed to believe in. So then the good thing about that was that when I came over here and I was surrounded by mostly Christian people, some Jewish, I was able to see what the differences are, but then also how similar they were. So, like, you know, people were telling me about what Christmas was and everything, you know, that was brand new to me. But then realizing that, Oh, Jesus, like, we have Jesus in our religion as well, Abraham, we have that as well, you know. So just the different narratives are the same across the different the three different Abrahamic religions, and just seeing that, okay, well, everybody sort of believes the same thing, but it's just our culture is different, and that's what people don't realize a lot of the times. It's just, it's cultural differences, and not as much religious but Islam always, sort of, you know, taught us to love our neighbors, whatever religion they are, respect our mothers, respect women in our lives, and just sort of really be humble and like, you know, when we pray and stuff our head has to touch the ground. So it's always kept me, you know, literally and, you know, metaphorically, like if you're speaking, you know, with the ground. So that's what I really, really love about and I'm always appreciative of my religion along with other people's religions. For that reason, it's just very cool that, you know, it can sort of hold you down like that, and it can be a really spiritual and personal
thing. I agree.
Ali, what would you say are some of the biggest misconceptions? One tell me about being brown and foreign, and also, what are some common misconceptions that you've experienced about your religion and your beliefs?
Okay? Well, being brown and foreign. I don't want to mix the two religion and culture, because that happens quite, quite often. So I'm going to speak on. Separately. So being brown is kind of just like the stereotypes that you get, you know, like, he probably owns a 711 smells like curry, doesn't use deodorant, so, like all that, those are just misconceptions. I guess I don't, I don't really, I've never really been, like, faced with that kind of stuff, because I've always, like, been, like, an Americanized person like that has never been like a thing like, I'm not, like, super foreign. I don't know what that's even, what that even means, but so that's just been like that. But in terms of, like, religion, can you reiterate that question one
more time? Yeah, so what? What have been some of the common misconceptions about your religion, like people here you're a Muslim. What are some things that they may assume that may not be true?
I came across, I'm gonna, this is a kind of like a little story, but I came across a girl from my school, and she didn't know about the Muslim Student Association, I told her, and she was like, Why do you guys even have that? And I was like, I mean, I just made it as a joke. And I was like, so everyone doesn't think we're part of ISIS. And I just, I think that might be a misconception, especially like in today's election, we have, like, a whole bunch of hate being spewed out for no reason, really, but I guess now it's more apparent.
So what about you for us?
Yeah, like Elise said, the culture and religion are very, very different, and I think people sort of associate them together. The first and most important thing is that because you're brown doesn't mean you're associated with a certain religion. So you have, you know, Pakistani people, which are mostly going to be Muslim, then Indians. It's like you have, like, Ali is a Muslim. Then you have Hindus. You have Sikhs. And one of the misconceptions with the cultural thing is like that we all wear turbans, and that is something that is a religious belief behind Sikhs, which are a completely different religion than Hindus and Muslims. But then with the like, with the cultural aspect, Pakistanis are closer to Indians, even though a lot of a lot of the time they're Hindus. But for the most part, Muslims are nothing like the whole, I guess what you would say, the brown culture. So you'll have like the Arabs, Palestinians and Saudis and Egyptians, Moroccans, you know, they're, they have nothing to do with our culture at all. Where they don't, they're not with the Bollywood films. They don't speak the same languages as us. So it's like being Pakistani. You get like, a lot of mixture from both the Arab world and then you get a lot of mixture from the Indian world. So with the religion, it's like the religion is very, sort of clear and cut, what we believe, what we don't, of course, like any other religion, when you read it, it's a very personal thing, so you are going to interpret it exactly how you sort of want it to be interpreted. So, I mean, you could take anything and twist it in exactly the way that you want it to be twisted. Like I had said before, a lot of the scripture from the Quran is the exact same as something you'd find in the Bible or the Torah. But then the thing is, when you are when there's people living in any sort of impoverished area, for example, Baltimore, we're from Baltimore, and you see that there will be a rise in violence and crime because people don't have money, because people are mistreated, because they're living in bad conditions. So in the same way, you have people on the other side of the world who are getting bombed, and have drones in their lives almost every single day, and there'll be families and kids, so a lot of the times when they see things like that going on, then they are more inclined to turn towards a negative side of the religion, where people can come up to and say, Hey, do you see these drones? You see what's going on? Why don't we fight back against what this is in the name of the religion? And that way they use religion as the bait. So it's not, I mean, it's not as much as a misconception as it is an understanding that people should, you know, and it's not their fault. They're just not educated about this, that this occurs. So if we were able to sort of teach, you know, the other side of the story in our schools and stuff like how we learn about Thanksgiving and in elementary school. Were told that, you know, Columbus came over and he had a nice, friendly meeting with the Native Americans. He knew everything was good, but, like, the real story is the whole slaughterings and everything, and that's what we are not truthful about. So if we were, you know, honest about what's going on exactly and what the reasons are where we messed up as well. People would be more educated in that way. And I mean, that's what we have to just sort of continue doing, just being the best people that we can, to sort of show people, you know, the types of people we are, instead of just telling them and having them believe us, really good,
since both have kind of been in the US for a while, like probably from what I'm understanding from what you're sharing with me most of your lives. What is it like when you go back to your home country, where your parents are from, and visit How are you received? I have a friend who is originally from Jamaica, and she didn't come here until college, but when she goes back home, they're like, Oh, look at that American. Sometimes she feels a little bit of a way about it, because she feels like she's not quite she said, one of her first moments where she felt different was will where she actually recognized in her family members that they had an accent. She had never recognized an accent before, and she recognized the accent so Ali, I'll start with you. Tell me about what is your experience like when you go back home to visit?
Okay, so I haven't been back very many times. I went in 1999 I went in 2005 maybe, and then I went most recent, 2007 so it's been almost 10 years. But even then, I still remember, like very clearly, only my grandparents live there now. And there is, there is the accent that very much so there is, I don't have that accent anymore, or or not that I did, I'm not sure. But like you said, look at that American that's literally, like, how they treat you, like you can do whatever you want to fit in. Like I we have our traditional dresses the show acamese. It's like the longer up to your knees is the top, and then, like very like Aladdin, like pants called the shawarkamis, right? So you can wear that around, and people will still, like, know how that you walk differently, or you talk differently, and you will just be targeted by, like, anybody. Even when we go shopping, we have like, this thing where, like, the price of the thing is not really the price you're supposed to pay, because you're supposed to, like, ask them to bring it down a whole bunch. And if you're from America, they know they charge you, like, double no matter what you do, you know, they just automatically think you have money. So, I mean, there's a there's a very clear difference, like, you walk, you talk, you this, the food you eat is like, so different. So every time I go, it's like, I'm a tourist in my own city, so that's that. And what
about you for us, what is it like when you go back home and visit? Yeah,
so a very similar experience. It's in America, come to Pakistani and Pakistan, I'm too American, so you definitely, you everybody knows, and you know, our cousins always make fun of us because they're like, you're trying too hard, or you're not, you know, it's never gonna work, but, um, it's really fun. You know, every time we go back, it's like, just like I said, our in our culture, there's a lot of the whole family thing. So, you know, big families, and you're treated by everybody, like you're a part of the family, whether it's like the guy down the street selling, you know, kebabs, or, you know, just different people that are out in the street just having, you know, living life, and you see all the art and culture and family everywhere. So it's always been a really humbling experience, I would say, just to see you know what the roots are where we grew up, and it's always important to sort of give back.
So for us, you mentioned family. Tell me about like, Do you ever feel any type of okay, let's say this. How important is it to you or to your parents or your family that you marry someone with your same cultural background?
I think for most people living anywhere, the parents would prefer that. It's something that they're, you know, familiar with, that they're comfortable with. So my parents are the same way, where they want they would prefer somebody that is in our culture. But um, you know, in our religion, we're allowed to marry anybody, that's whether they be Muslim, Christian or Jewish. You are allowed to do that, as long as they are practicing very faithfully in their own religion as well. Um. So that's something that I'm not thinking about right now, just because I'm so
busy, no pressure,
yeah, but, you know, I my mom and I have these talks here and there, and she just, my parents are very open mind, and they just want us to be happy, and they want, they want us to have the right person. So they're just, they're just sometimes, you know, always being overprotective or, like, overly caring. But they're my parents, so you know, whatever I do, they're gonna be they're gonna trust me for it.
Yeah, so I'm the sorry. Were you gonna say something? No, I'm just gonna ask you. Go ahead. Okay, so, yeah, similarly, culturally and religiously, there's, like, I guess it goes two ways, and I guess there's a double standard in that. But like, like Frost said, religiously, you're you can marry anyone, as long as they're practicing, because religion doesn't have a race, or religion, or religion doesn't have a race, so it can be anyone. But culturally, I think more or less, we look at the family they come from, rather than the individual, which is weird. So if, like, you come from a good home, like, all that stuff should, like, make you a good person, so that you can be, like, eligible for, like, your son or daughter. And it's like, always, with the parents approval, we it's like, very rarely that you have like, like, someone bring, I don't know, maybe, but this is just from my understanding. Like, like, it would be very rare that, like, a son or a daughter would like, be like, hey, like, I want to marry this person without their parents, like, being like, okay with it,
okay. Because the parents blessing
would be like, ultimately the most important, because family is so important. So like, the parents blessing would be like, such a priority for like, I know for me, and I can say that for like, my siblings too. For example,
you mentioned that you have siblings. Ali, you have a
sister. I'm the middle of two sisters. Yes, sisters,
I mean, and I know you can't, like totally and completely, necessarily speak for them, but in your observation, have they had different experiences with you being brown and foreign and also female um? Or is that, do you notice anything different with that in terms of gender,
um, in terms of religion? Yeah, my younger sister wears a hijab, and my older sister, she doesn't wear a hijab by choice. So I'm sure they both go through like that, like little internal struggle on, like, you know, like how I'm seen in the public eye, like my older sister, how I'm seen to, like other Muslims that are wearing hijab and I'm not, and my younger sister that, like, you know, that she wears hijab, and like how she's seen to the public, because it's like, you know, it's like, the first thing people notice about her is that she's wearing a hijab. So it's like that, like, outward, like, you know, so I guess, so, I guess, I guess, by gender, it matters
for us. Um, you mentioned, I know both of you guys are in school. Um, so with being in school, and you are in Baltimore, which has a large African American population, but, um, I don't remember what was this? What was the college you went? You go to, I go
to Towson University. Okay, I'm at the University of Baltimore.
Okay, so Towson University, University of Baltimore, so they have a, I think they probably have a somewhat good mix of students in terms of, like, both of those schools, yeah. What? What has your experience been like in terms of not just mixing with others, with students from like other backgrounds and other ethnicities. But what are some of the common questions that they ask you, like some some frequently asked questions, if you will, that you usually are answering when you're at school.
Let's see, I guess people, at first hand, are sort of afraid to ask questions, so I try to put it out there, you know, I'm very, I am a very cultural person, just because I love to, you know, use what I know to better understand other people and express myself. So then, when I am in a conversation with people, they sort of just ask me, you know, like, what are the same type of questions you're really asking honestly, like, What are your experiences? And what does you know? I heard this on the news. So is this true or, like, you know what? It's usually other minority students like you mentioned lots of African Americans, good mix of like Spanish people, and I think that comes from understanding each other's struggles and which, which is one of the one of the main things that you have to do when you're a minority is not just sort of put yourself in this. Box. And, you know, worry about yourself, because you know that quote from Martin Luther King, where he says Injustice anywhere is injustice. So it's all, I forget how the quote goes, but um, you know, and that's that's so true, because you see things like what's happening in a country like Syria, and from our experiences of what happened in Baltimore, where everybody was labeling Baltimore, labeling Baltimore as this terrible place, we can see how people in Syria like we can sympathize with them. So when it's when it's anybody being held down in any way, it's just important that we worry about everybody you know and recognize each other's struggles and everything like that. So I like that, you know, everybody sort of, when you have a mixed school like that, those are things that you have to talk about when, when it's a few people, like in my high school or middle school and stuff, and it's just very much, you know, a suburban neighborhood with a lot of white people, it's something that's like, Okay, if one, one or two people out of the entire school are facing a problem, it's not prioritized. But when it's a whole bunch of mixed students in a school, then these are the things that do have to be addressed. And even at our school, we have struggles like that. So you know that's always important. And what
about you? Ali,
so yeah, University of Baltimore, we're, I mean, it's very diverse. It's cool seeing like a lot of different, like, I don't know, we have, like, a good mix of students. I'm sorry, can repeat your question one more time. No, no worries.
So just basically, what are some of the questions being in an environment with people from diverse backgrounds in school, what are some of the frequently asked questions that you get? Okay,
so frequently asked questions, a lot of people like, for us that they're scared to ask questions, but when they when they do, they're kind of just like, I know, like, a lot of times, like, it would be like Ramadan, and people like, you know, how do you fast for 30 Days Are you allowed to drink water? Like, you know, like, how long are these like, how long do you have to do? Like, what can you not do? What are you limited? And then I feel like that gets the conversation going. Because, you know, like, they become very interested. And that's like, speaks volumes. Because I feel like foreign people like, stick together for some reason, I don't know, but it's a lot easier for me to like, relate to like, someone who's foreign, rather than someone who's like, it's kind of something, yeah, I know, but that's how it is. I think.
No, I get that. I totally get that. We
have, like, we have an event coming up through our MSA is called the Black Lives Matter, and the Muslim community integrating like that through like diversity. That's another way that we can, that we reach out.
Wow, that sounds interesting. I definitely want to, want you to share more about that later and share, like a link or what, whatever information
school. But, yeah, we will be okay. Awesome,
awesome. So one of the questions that I have for you, for both of you, Ashley and we can start with you, for us, it this is just general, and whatever you have to say about this is fine. How do you feel about this election?
So for me, politics aren't really a way that I'm going to, you know, let dictate my life, just because you know this, this country is so great because everybody is able to voice their opinion and do what they like, and, you know, strive for greatness no matter what. So you know, when there's somebody in charge of everything, they're not truly in charge, and it's always comes down to what the people have to say. And so for me, it's like, you know, if there is somebody up there saying certain things about a certain group of people, and I think we know who we're talking about here, you know, that doesn't, that doesn't really say much about that person as much as it does about the people voting for him. So not as much of we'll say a monster as you know the people that are coming to his rallies and are, you know, acting upon what he's saying. I think you know you have to be when you're listening to anybody. You have to be aware of what they're saying. And it doesn't matter if I like the person or not, like I follow Donald Trump on Twitter because I want to know what he's saying. I I look into his speeches, I look up his background. I want to make sure I understand where he's coming from, and he has a reason for saying the things he does. So I need to understand that before I can make a judgment on somebody. And you know, at the end of it again, like I said, before it comes down to the education. So when you have people. People that are sort of it's more towards like the southern states, I guess, where people are born in a certain place, they're raised on a certain religion and a culture, and they're always taught to believe one thing, and they never have somebody of a different ethnicity or religion in their life. It's very easy for them to put a stamp on something that they don't know much about. So if I grow up in an area where it's all, you know, whites, for example, and I've never met a black person, and I see the news, I can say very easily that, okay, well, this is what I'm seeing about black people, and so that's all I know. But until I actually get to meet one, maybe I befriend one, then I would never know what their experiences are and how normal and similar our lives are. So, you know, just tying it in with politics, it's the same thing. I can't control, I can vote, and I think everybody should vote, and it's important that you look into both sides, because it's like Hillary Clinton is not doing any more justice for like, our group of people that Donald Trump is, you know. So you have to be aware of both parties. You can't just say, Okay, we have to pick between the lesser of two evils. There are also other candidates, you know? There's
right. Now, I think, is, you know,
if you, if you want to, for example, look into war, Gary Johnson wants to completely pull out of war. So it's like, you have to consider the different options. You should vote, because this is your country, and that's, that's what you have to remember, is like the person that's in charge, it's not just their country, it's your country as well. It's just as much my country as it is yours. So just if I'm not educating myself on all this stuff, then how do I expect somebody else who knows nothing about me to educate themselves as well? So again, it just comes down to education, education, education.
No, I appreciate that, especially the aspects of looking at both sides and someone in the chat, Benjamin Wright said they have the same values that most blacks or African Americans have wonderful dialog, truly wonderful. Much respect for my Muslim brothers and sisters, is what he said. So Ali, tell me, has anything surprised you about this particular election or campaign, or what are your general thoughts around it?
Um, surprising, yeah, just, I mean, I don't have to say just the fact that one candid made it as far as he did, but it goes back to a frost thing. And I like how he was putting importance on the education part of it, because I truly believe in that, like, and like, even in a recent thing, it was like how most of the Trump supporters are from like, uneducated places, and that's like the main reason I was gonna go. I was gonna go into, what is it called, how just I feel like they've just made a mockery of this, like, politic, like system, that they turn into, like, kind of a reality TV show, and it's more about the people who are voting for him, because it doesn't say, like, just like a frost, it doesn't say much about him, but like, the people that are voting for him, and he's, like, spewing this, so the people who are going to only react to this, and the less education that they have, the more they're going to have a reason to believe. And the Oh, like, you know, like, whatever it's on, like, Fox News, quote, unquote, they can just take that and twist how they wanted to. But my thing is, I disagree with for us on this one, but I think everyone should vote, but Hillary Clinton isn't doing a lot for our group of people. Yes, but a third party vote is kind of like a no vote, because it doesn't really get recognition. And I'm in Maryland. We're like, a democratic state, so like, a lot of people use that like, Hey, don't vote. Your vote doesn't count in Maryland, because it's like, Donald Trump's not going to win. But like, people have that mentality throughout the whole election, and he's made it this far. So I think, like a vote for a third party or a no vote is a vote for Trump. So as like a Muslim, I feel like it is the better thing to do is to choose the lesser the two evils and vote for Hillary Clinton, rather than do a third party, which would be like, you know, I don't agree with like everyone's morals and like beliefs that they have, but I wouldn't be okay with Donald Trump with four years of additional, like spewing of hate and policies releasing and just like saying vulgar things that he thinks he's in that he's allowed to say, because it's like, it's like A kind of like a, like an ethics thing, like, how can you believe in someone who says these certain things? Or, how can you follow someone and just continue to make excuses for him, after excuse after excuse, knowing the things that he's saying, all the things that are coming into light now. And like, because everyone sees him as a joke, but like, his voter. Are so dedicated that they will be the ones voting, and the people who are like, lopsided in their vote don't know what to do, they'll kind of like, take themselves away from the situation. You know, I don't want to vote for anyone, but I think that's kind of
wrong. Okay, definitely good point. Thank you for sharing that. So, um, tell me, and we can start with you, for us, as we talk about the impact of voting and how there's sometimes misconceptions and just so many different things. Have you experienced any type of discrimination, being born Brown, being foreign, being Muslim. Have you experienced any type of discrimination around either of those?
Personally, I haven't. I think a lot of what I see is online, really, and that's easy for people to sit behind a computer and, you know, say what they want to, but sort of just having the positions that I've had in my life, I've been really blessed to, you know, be the leader of a lot of different things, whether it be a sports team or different organizations. I've been put in a lot of leadership positions. So just how I said before, like just always expressing the person that I am through my culture and my religion and just being myself, people are always able to see that, hey, this is a normal guy, and, you know, I like him, and he's always has a positive thing to say. So this is if, if his religion and his culture taught him that, then there can't be anything wrong with that. So yeah, I haven't, I haven't faced anything like that, just because I try to always be, you know, a positive influence on people. And my experience is always that if I don't know something about somebody, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to learn it so I try to be the person that I want to befriend as well.
Awesome. And you. Ellie, this is
about the election specifically. I know this is
just, just in general. Like, Have you, have you experienced any type of discrimination around any of those three areas, whether it's religion, being brown or being foreign?
Being Brown, not so much, but very much so after, like, September 11 in high school, I used to be called terrorist and like, it didn't really bother me a lot until I started thinking about it, like now, with the certain labels that are being thrown around, because back then, I was kind of just, like, kind of just trying to be in with the crowd and not like, you know, say anything out of place, where I would be like, you Know, Like, scrutinized for in a certain way. But I certain way. But at the mosque, I guess people are, like, very like, hesitant to like vote, because they think, like, you know, like Muslims in the government, that kind of doesn't mix well. So they're always kind of not trying to be involved. But like, way to make a change and to like, help What's your situation is to get involved in the policy making and like, you know, lobbying for what you want to happen. Because one way to do that in this country is to like, you know, write a bill, or, like, get like, some light shown on it. Because, I mean, you can do stuff online and show like awareness. But in terms of actual like policy making and change, it's like done through the government. So it's important for like Muslims, especially, to like be involved in that, to make change. Ali,
tell me what are the spaces wherein you feel most affirmed, most encouraged, and yeah, most encouraged and most affirmed in your identity, in the whole of who you are as a human being. I would
definitely have to say my mask. I was probably two years old when it was being built. So I've been there from the start of the community. I've watched it grow. I went to the Sunday school there. I know all the youth kids. We have our own youth group. We go on like, we have like camping trips. We have like, you know, like youth like basketball. We have like youth movie. We have bonfires every year. So I've gotten close to them over 24 years, and they've all just been kids living in my area. And I know their families very well. I know them very well, and a lot of my own family goes to that mosque, so I kind of call that my second home, and I assimilate very well there. I feel the most like at home, at peace and just myself when I'm at my mosque and it's like, it's like an Indian and Pakistani mosque. So everyone there is, like my own kind. So to it, and
what about you? For
us, for me, the places that I feel the most affirmed, I guess, is I'm an artist. So any place where there's other sort of artists, or, you know, people that are. Uh, you know, interested in the arts, just because these types of people are often open minded, they're wanting to learn, they're wanting to be inspired, so they're always open to new ideas. And I think sometimes when you're around your own group of people, like I, I like being put in really bizarre situations, or, like, uncomfortable spaces, because then it, then it makes you it really shows your true colors, because sometimes it's very easy to hide behind, you know, your own groups, and it is nice to to be with your own types of people, because it's it's comfortable again, but sometimes people use that for the wrong reason, and it's very easy to just sort of stay in that comfortable zone, but you have to step outside of that sometimes, and that's what like when you're in an artistic space. For me, that's really valuable, because you meet people that are like, whoa, totally not my culture, totally not my religion, like you would be banned from these things or whatever you know, it opens your mind up, and it lets you see you know, the stories behind People, where they come from and what they're about.
Ali, what are some things? Or are there any things from our discussion tonight where you feel like you know you didn't ask this question, and I really want to get this out, or you didn't ask this question, and I really think we should have talked about this. Is there anything like that has come up for you?
I Um, hmm. Maybe the distinction on like cultural and culture and religion, because I guess that was like, I noticed that it was like, grouped together in your question, and I answered it separately. So I guess I could go a little bit more into like, the difference between culture and religion. Okay, go ahead. So culture is basically like, I'm from India and France is from Pakistan. But we follow the same religion, but we follow it very differently. Also he, like, we have, we're part of two different sects, like he, I'm part of the shia sect, and he is part of the Sunni sect, and I guess that plays into practicing the religion differently. But I mean, it's all essentially the same thing. We both pray five times a day. We all keep our fast. We visit the Kaaba in Mecca, and all that stuff is still part of the religion, but just the culture is kind of like your like housekeeping, kind of how you're growing up and, like, the way you go about doing things, but the religion is like, like, like the guide, or like the the direct, the user manual, basically. And the way to go about it could be a number of different ways, and it's important not to get that mixed up, because it makes other people from a different culture feel like they're not practicing what they're doing, right. But in reality, it could be righteous, not how they do things where they're from. Other than that, I think you hit a lot of points,
and you for us.
No, I mean, I think that was a good discussion. I just try to remind people that it's, it's not always, you know, sob stories and bad experiences. I'm always extremely thankful that I grew up the way I did through any sort of struggles. But also the privilege, you know, we've always been, I think this country is great, um, because of the privilege that you do get. You know, you're you're allowed to do whatever you want. There's no, um, there's no, like, it's not decided where you're gonna go from where you're born, you could be a waiter and then the next day being a movie star. And that's, that's only opportunities that you get in this country. And I think that's what sometimes we forget when we're sort of fighting about, you know, all the discrimination and who's running for president and stuff. You still have to remember that as an individual, because this country is so independent. You You can still live the life that you want to live. And if you want to, if you don't want to, sort of follow this standard corporate structure, you don't have to. You can make your own way. You can be an entrepreneur, and you can be an artist. You can do whatever you want to. And that's, that's what's awesome. You don't have to care about money. You don't have to care about the things that other people care about, and you can, you can truly be what you want to be. You can give back to everything that you came from, and you can help other people out and and do it all in a positive light. So, yeah,
awesome. Super fantastic. I want to thank both of you for taking the time. Time to come on the counter narrative. Thanks to everyone who is watching live. For the some of you have who have engaged on the chat. Before I let you guys go, and before I let everyone go, I want to give both of our guests the opportunity to for them to let everyone know how they can get in contact with you, Allah, I'm sorry. Allah, Ali, if like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, website, how can they reach out to you? Or what is the mode of communication that you don't mind sharing for people to reach out with you?
You can. I have all that social media, but I don't. You can find me on Facebook. Ali Hassan, a l, I last name H, A, S, a n. That's probably my best form of communication. Is Facebook. I have a Instagram that's true chains, dot 535, and that's basically it love for my contact, all right,
and you for us. Um, yeah. So as I mentioned, I'm an artist on everything, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook, Snapchat, everything. I'm ferocity, F, A, R, o, s, t, y, I make cool little videos that are cultural and have ties between a lot of different things. They're fun. They're music videos. It'll be like comedy skits and stuff like that. So I try to, just like I said, I try to educate people and sort of let ourselves make fun of ourselves. So to make it, you know, not so serious, they've got, like altogether, a couple million views. I've gotten awards from them, from like the former governor of Maryland, Martin O'Malley, and been on TV, radio, different things for those videos. So I encourage people to check them out and pass them on again. It's, I'm on social media. As for Austin, you can look that up on YouTube. Please fill it for us. It's, F, A, R, o, s, t, y,
and he actually has a music video called Brown and foreign that kind of inspired. Foreign.
Yeah,
that is extremely funny. I like it. I'll probably share the link. If you send the link to me again, I'll probably put it attached to this to get to it. Thank you again, both of you for coming on and just like sharing your story, sharing your narrative, and your having
us. No, yeah, thanks for the opportunity. This was great. I
appreciate it. All right. Y'all have a good night. All right. Peace. You.
