032 BROOKLYN BRIDGE ALIEN ABDUCTION

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The transmission starts now.
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Yeah, this is the Conspiracy Journal Podcast.
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You came to the right place if you were looking for the Conspiracy Journal podcast.
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I was looking for the Conspiracy Journal podcast.
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I'm so happy to be here.
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My name is Michelle.
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You did a great job, Michelle.
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Bobby.
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My name is Bobby.
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Bobby's my name is Bobby.
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Bobby, Michelle.
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I'm Greg.
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What's up, Greg?
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Hey.
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What are we doing?
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Today we are talking about the Brooklyn Bridge UFO alien abduction.
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Brooklyn Bridge Alien Abduction, I think, is the party line.
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It's changed a little bit.
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There's a recent documentary that kind of gave it a different name, but it colloquially for a long time was known as the Brooklyn Bridge Alien Abduction.
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And this story is man, it's all over the damn place.
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You know, it's it's very hard to tell in a linear fashion, so I'm I'm I'm not gonna attempting to tell it.
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Attempting to tell in a linear fashion is like you're just gonna miss a lot of stuff and uh a lot of parts you wouldn't understand.
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So of course, yeah.
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Anyways, this is yeah, it was a real it was a real doozy to research this one.
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So to to start to kind of understand it, we're gonna start talking about a guy named Bud Hopkins.
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Bud Bud Hopkins, who was pretty big time in in the UFO world for a long time.
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Bud was born in Wheeling, West Virginia, starts a drawing as a kid, goes to art school, moves to New York City, and becomes a really well-established artist in the abstract expressionist world.
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So we're kind of in the 1960s.
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At this point, he's got a serious professional career.
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He's in a lot of galleries, his work is in the Met, in MoMA, the British Museum.
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He's doing great.
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No big deal.
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He's a a great artist.
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I have a question.
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Go ahead.
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Is his name Bud?
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Like, is that his born name, Bud?
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No, his his born name, his born name is Elliot, which is also that's also his dad's name.
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Sure.
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So oftentimes a junior will get a little nickname like that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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It's Bud with two D's, double D.
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Cute.
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Bud Double D.
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So do you think he was just like Buddy?
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Yeah.
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Like, hey, buddy.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's probably like what his father called him or something.
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That is so cute.
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I love him.
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Yeah.
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I don't, I I don't know off the top of my head, but I don't think that's his given middle name.
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But that that's what everybody calls him.
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Buddy.
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Yeah.
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Love it.
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Um, so yeah, he's doing great as an artist.
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He's in the scene, he's doing the thing.
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His work's pretty good.
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I looked it up.
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Like it's it's like, yeah, that's good, that's good art.
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It's I mean, it's abstract expressionism, so it's pretty open to interpretation of whether or not it's good, but you can tell he's he's uh knows what he's doing as an artist for sure.
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Well this is happening, he takes a fun, fun romp to Cape Cod with some friends in 1964, and he sees something weird out there.
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Yeah, he sees the UFO.
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What?
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And he's like, What's that about?
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Yeah.
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So this is like the first of many UFOs he's encountered.
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Yeah, this this kind of kicks it off for him.
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And I don't know, maybe at some point we will we will do a full episode about Bud Hopkins, which you could easily do.
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This is not that, this is about this one specific encounter.
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Um, I mean, we can talk about them as much as we can.
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Let's talk about as much as you want.
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But this is the problem with research for this podcast is every single time you start a story, within the first 10 minutes of your research, you could already have a full other story.
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And so depending on where you decide to go in that moment is gonna determine what episode you're doing first.
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For sure.
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And and and I mean, this is the story will introduce Linda here shortly, but this is a story about Bud and Linda.
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So we're gonna get a lot of Bud.
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We'll get plenty of Bud.
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I already love Bud.
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Dude, so Betty and Barney Hill also met in Cape Cod.
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Was there some like crazy Cape Cod UFO experience happening around the 50s and the 60s?
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Sounds like yes.
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Okay.
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There's a conspiracy all in Cape Cod.
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Yeah.
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There's there has to be.
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Yeah.
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Let's go there and research.
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Absolutely.
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Okay, yeah.
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Sounds great.
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Okay.
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Yeah.
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We'll take a little vacation to Cape Cod and Oh, we're doing research.
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Pause this episode.
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Everybody stop.
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We're going to Cape Cod.
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We'll be back.
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Get on the bus.
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We're going to Cape Cod.
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Yep.
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And we're back from Cape Cod.
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It was a wonderful, uh little outing.
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Quaint little town.
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Tons of UFOs.
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Those nothing but UFOs there.
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Yep.
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And so that's kind of how Bud felt.
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And he sees the UFO out there and he starts researching it.
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And UFOs slowly takes over more and more of his life until that becomes his main thing.
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Right.
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Kind of takes over the art thing.
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Meaning like he doesn't.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Meaning like he stops doing art and he's just obsessed with UFOs, or his art becomes UFOs or both.
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Uh I don't know if he stopped doing art, but researching UFOs, sightings, and the like becomes his primary focus.
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Yeah.
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Oh, I see.
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So I thought maybe like his paintings or something became UFO really.
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I didn't deep dive into his whole art catalog, but I did not see in the art that I looked at any kind of UFO specific.
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But I mean, again, it's abstract expressionists.
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So he he might be like, they're all UFOs.
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Yeah, totally.
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Everything's an alien.
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There are a lot of circles and lines and stuff.
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Yeah.
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So he has like an agent that is like, you know something?
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These UFOs really aren't hitting.
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And he's just like makes them all weird and abstract.
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We love these.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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That's kind of, I mean, abstract expressionism.
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You can kind of say it's whatever you want it.
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That's right.
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You know?
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Art is in the eye of the beholder.
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That's right.
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And so he gets very into UFOs.
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It becomes his main focus, his deal.
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And in that process of it becoming his main deal, he really shifts to the specific abduction side of things.
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That becomes his forte, and that's what he's researching and what he's into.
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In 1981, he publishes a book called Missing Time.
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In 1987, he publishes a book called Intruders, in which he argues that people experience abductions without consciously remembering them.
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But kind of in the place of that, they experience Missing Time, title of the book.
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Strange dreams, unexplained fears, phobias, fragmented memories.
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So a lot of this weird stuff happens to the mind.
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And so part of this establishes support groups for abductees where they compare their experiences and look for patterns.
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So wait, if I am one of these people, do I remember an experiencer?
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Is it because like listen, I have unexplained fears and I'd be having a bad night's sleep, but I never got abducted.
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Or did I just forget that I got abducted and my fears and things that I experience as a human person are actually because of aliens?
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Okay.
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I'm curious about that because you always hear about people that are vaguely in pieces remembering abductions.
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I want to know how many people have been abducted that go their entire life without remembering they have been.
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Yeah.
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What if we all got abducted and we don't even know it?
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What you both just talked about is is this story.
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Oh.
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You are intro in the episode.
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I'm a psychic.
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Bud has these support groups for these abductees and he's getting all these stories.
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Um, and he he starts to understand that extraterrestrials can suppress or interfere with memory.
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He's seeing these parallels in these different stories.
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And then he's like, What if I hypnotize these people?
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Yeah, fuck yeah.
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No formal psychological training?
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No problem.
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No, who is it?
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No problem.
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Oh, we need a little pendulum.
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Yeah.
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That's it.
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Watch it on TV.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So he's got his he's got hundreds of subjects, you know, these people from support groups, and they're they're like, Yeah, let's get into it.
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So he uses hypnotic regression to recover suppressed memories.
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Of course.
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In these people who were abducted.
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Yeah.
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Which is a therapist hypnotizes somebody and then helps them, helps them quote unquote remember events buried in their subconscious.
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That's kind of in a nutshell, that's what hypnotic regression is.
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You might be getting into this, but at any point did these people or subjects of his know that that's what was about to happen?
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Like was it possible that he was implanting ideas into them and they're just kind of recurgitating it back?
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Some of his detractors would would say that.
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Okay, so yeah, as as he gained in notoriety, uh you know naturally there are more eyes on him and and more skeptics.
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And so, yeah, people did have those questions.
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Are you leading these people right handing these things?
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Um, the power of suggestion is is strong.
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Like if you're going in thinking that, like, oh, this study is on um regressed memories of UFOs, then you're probably going to be if you're wanting to be part of it, you're probably going to give them what they want.
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Well, in and most of his subjects are from his like UFO support groups.
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There, yeah.
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So I'm just I'm acting as a skeptic.
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I'm not saying I I don't believe in anything that is about to be told to us, but yeah, I'm just like looking at it from a point of view of uh, I guess just devil's advocating it.
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No, totally.
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And and there was skepticism from within the community, because this abduction is quite is very different than sighting.
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You know, so there's these it it kind of gets lumped under the umbrella of ufology or uophology, depending on how you want to say it.
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Tomato toma.
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That's right.
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Uh but it but it is a very different, very specific thing, and and the the skepticism of abductions is much heavier than it is of sightings.
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You know, people are much more willing to believe a sighting, it's much harder to challenge a sighting.
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Sure.
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So yeah, that it definitely gets brought up.
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The are you planting seeds?
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Are you suggesting these things?
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Is Bud doing the hypnotizing himself?
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Sure.
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Or sure, okay, of course.
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Yeah, okay.
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And I mean, there's there's tons of video footage of this.
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We'll get into uh his wife Carol later.
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Carol was a filmmaker.
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So there's a there was a woman around with a video camera for a lot of this stuff.
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So you see, yeah, he's like in people's houses, they're in his house, maybe.
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Like there's all all these different settings.
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And yeah, Bud's like next to a bed hypnotizing a person or or with a person under hypnosis.
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He's asking him questions.
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And does he have like a metronome or anything?
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He doesn't, unfortunately.
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But maybe, I mean, these are all all the clips I saw were like mid session.
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Okay.
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So I didn't get to see the start necessarily.
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I hope so.
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I hope so too.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yep.
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He's got an old pocket watch.
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So he's just Yep, that's what I want.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so through running these groups and his hypno hypnotic sessions, he's like, wait a minute.
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I think there might be an organized extraterrestrial biologic genetic hybrid program.
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Of course.
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Which control.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I was like, I don't see how you could not get.
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I can't believe he's the first person to think of this.
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Yeah, exactly.
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Exactly.
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So give it to me again.
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Uh just an organized extraterrestrial biological genetic hybrid program.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Totally.
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Um, which is aliens are abducting us, doing some experiments.
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Sex experiments.
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That's right.
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Okay.
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We're making, we're gonna we're babying.
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We're making babies.
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I'm doing scissoring.
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Yeah.
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I saw you do that.
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That's how they get it going.
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I'm sure I'm not the per first person to say that, but I did come up with it on my own when I was researching.
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So they're doing some sex experiments and create, yeah, creating uh alien human hybrids.
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Right.
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So that's that's part of what is going on, and they're suppressing the memories of the people that this happens to.
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Enter Linda Napolitano.
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Linda, Linda, I love Linda.
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Linda is a New York lady, dude.
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She is she's born and raised in Little Italy.
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Okay.
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And she's just like now, present-day New York, you have to go to Staten Island or like Deep Queens to find this lady.
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But she was they used they were just there.
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Really?
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They were just there right now.
00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:45.279
New Yorkers used to live in Manhattan.
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.000
It's not not that way necessarily anymore.
00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:50.960
But Linda is a New York lady through and through.
00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:55.120
Uh she worked as a singer and model when she was younger under the name Lynn Long.
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:57.919
She had some success, had a record deal with Mercury Records.
00:12:58.080 --> 00:12:59.919
You can look up her songs, they're on YouTube.
00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:00.960
You can check them out.
00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:01.519
Not bad.
00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:02.080
Okay.
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:03.440
Um, but eventually.
00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:04.480
Was she a babe?
00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:05.519
Yeah, for sure.
00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:06.240
Okay, cool.
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:06.799
Linda.
00:13:07.200 --> 00:13:14.799
And so I think the the music and modeling thing, like for a lot of people, you have a little bit of success, but not quite enough.
00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:25.519
So as she gets a little bit older, and she's also got a Catholic mom who's like, you gotta get married, you gotta have babies, and so she kind of decides to go that route.
00:13:25.600 --> 00:13:29.600
So she gives up the entertainment side of her life, gets married, starts a family.
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:35.759
Her and her husband Steve, two sons, living in a little apartment in Little Italy, just blocks from where she grew up.
00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:44.639
So she's working as uh executive secretary, pretty ordinary mom, pretty regular, regular life, just doing the thing.
00:13:45.039 --> 00:13:49.440
In April 1989, Linda reads Bud's book, Intruders.
00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:50.000
Uh-oh.
00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.720
And immediately in the first chapter, she's like, wait a damn minute.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:56.799
Oh shit, this happened to me.
00:13:57.039 --> 00:13:58.159
This happened to me.
00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:59.759
I have been abducted.
00:13:59.919 --> 00:14:00.159
Yeah.
00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:05.440
And so there's just things in the description in the book that that she's like, This is so familiar to me.
00:14:05.679 --> 00:14:11.919
There's another woman in the book that's recounting her experience, and it's just bringing these things back to Linda's memory.
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:15.840
And so Linda, Linda calls Bud and she's like, I think this happened to me.
00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:20.320
Bud starts to interview her in conducting his hypnotic regression sessions.
00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:21.440
These are on tape.
00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:23.120
And then they're scissoring.
00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:24.960
Sorry, it's experiments.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:25.279
Yeah.
00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:27.519
They sex experiment at me, Bud.
00:14:27.759 --> 00:14:34.559
Yeah, well, you know, I we don't know that that's true, but maybe, you know, we'll we'll touch on that later.
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:34.960
Okay.
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:35.279
Okay.
00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.679
Did we get a DNA test for her sons?
00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:39.519
Well, I not to my knowledge.
00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:39.759
Okay.
00:14:40.480 --> 00:14:41.039
Not to my knowledge.
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.080
I think when I think she had the sons before she met Bud.
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:46.720
Right, but when did she get experimented on?
00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:47.919
Well, that yeah.
00:14:48.080 --> 00:14:48.240
Yeah.
00:14:48.399 --> 00:14:48.799
Yeah, yeah.
00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:51.919
She met a DNA test to see if they're aliens, not not Bud's kids.
00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:52.240
I got you.
00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:53.519
Yes, that's what I meant.
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:59.200
I didn't, I didn't, I was not accusing Bud of being the father of these children.
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:02.879
I was accusing aliens of being the father of these children.
00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:03.759
My bad.
00:15:04.000 --> 00:15:04.320
Okay.
00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:15.039
Um so she starts this uh, you know, kind of, I guess for lack of a better term, this working relationship with with Bud.
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:20.799
And so they're working together to discover Linda's repressed memories about these abductions.
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:34.720
And so she recalls an encounter, I think from like 13 years prior, uh, sometime in the in the 70s, of small extraterrestrials inserting something into her nose and like having a nose bleed.
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:41.120
There's a little bit of around the nose thing, a little bit of conflicting information.
00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.639
So I wasn't able to get like all of the facts of it.
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:52.639
But it does seem to be that uh Linda was abducted and like a little device was implanted under her nose.
00:15:53.120 --> 00:16:04.879
Um I've seen that before where it's like in the like the crease of like the nose between nose and the face, like right in like that area is kind of where like these small like rice size implants get put in.
00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:05.600
Exactly.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:18.480
Oh and so there, like there were some images of like some x-ray images of like a thing in there, but I think that those were maybe like this is what it might have looked like and not actual x-rays.
00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:33.120
But she did go to the doctor and they did do x-rays, and a doctor did find this weird uh this area where the cartilage had like grown around there was nothing in there at that point, but where cartilage had grown around something in her nose that was like an anomaly.
00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:41.279
Um like what your body would do to like any like foreign object or something where it's trying to expel it or like kill it.
00:16:42.320 --> 00:16:42.799
Exactly.
00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:53.360
So uh I like to think that the aliens inserted a device and then she's working with Bud and kind of is like, oh shit, I think they put something up my nose, and then the aliens were like, shit, we gotta get it out.
00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:54.799
Yeah, and so they go take it out.
00:16:54.879 --> 00:16:55.200
Yeah, I think it's a good idea.
00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:59.039
And then she goes to the doctor and they're like, There's nothing there, but there was something there.
00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:00.480
That's what happened.
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.799
It's very X-files, yeah, yeah, totally.
00:17:03.919 --> 00:17:04.400
Totally.
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:15.839
So this uh this nasal implant thing is a pretty big part of this story, which we're we're just getting started on with with with Bud and Linda and what's going on.
00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:17.599
So about 3 a.m.
00:17:17.920 --> 00:17:23.759
November 30th, 1989, she first contacted Bud in April of 1989.
00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:27.519
Linda is in her Manhattan apartment, she becomes aware.
00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:30.960
She just gets she was just done saying her prayers.
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:33.039
I don't know what she's up to until 3 o'clock in the morning.
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:34.079
Go to bed, Linda.
00:17:34.480 --> 00:17:34.799
You know?
00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:36.960
Yeah, but she's going to bed about 3 a.m.
00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:45.200
Just got done saying her prayers, and she notices these like small little grays, these little extraterrestrials at the foot of her bed.
00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:46.000
Aliens.
00:17:46.079 --> 00:17:46.319
Yeah.
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:47.839
Full on in the room.
00:17:48.079 --> 00:17:48.559
In the room, yeah.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:50.000
She's in the room, she's in bed.
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:51.440
I think that's more than a notice.
00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:53.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:17:53.519 --> 00:17:54.319
Hey, wait a minute.
00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:55.039
Yeah, yeah.
00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.359
I don't I don't remember seeing you there earlier.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:59.839
So she she throws she throws a pillow at him.
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:00.400
Of course.
00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:02.480
She's like, it was a heavy ass pillow.
00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:03.279
I made it myself.
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:05.119
It might have been filled with rocks.
00:18:05.279 --> 00:18:06.240
This is what she said.
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:07.680
So she didn't say that.
00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:08.640
Yeah, yeah, she did.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:09.440
Absolutely did.
00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:15.680
There's videotape of her saying there's a lot of there's a lot of video of Linda recounting these stories.
00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.880
So uh so she throws her pillow at the extraterrestrial.
00:18:19.200 --> 00:18:22.559
Her rock pillow, her pillow full of rocks didn't work.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:24.079
No, they were still there.
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:24.960
Okay, yep.
00:18:25.119 --> 00:18:30.079
And so they she kind of recounts like um being lifted up.
00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:39.359
She says maybe like a machine or little tiny fists hitting her back with a little bit jump like a little massage, like or like a little extraterrestrial.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:40.160
I was like punching.
00:18:40.319 --> 00:18:43.920
Yeah, you know, but you ever sit in like the airport, one of those massage chairs.
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:45.039
I was there this morning.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:46.640
Go to the airport just for that.
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:48.720
Yeah, don't even have a flight.
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:53.279
I have seen Bobby in the airport just sitting in the massage chairs.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:55.200
Little little tiny fist just hitting you.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:56.240
You gotta do something with your life.
00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.720
Next time I do one of those, I'm just gonna envision little alien hands.
00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:02.400
That's what they're inside the chair.
00:19:02.559 --> 00:19:02.880
Yeah.
00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:04.720
You know, that's that's what's going on.
00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.559
That's what is going on, that's how they work.
00:19:06.720 --> 00:19:14.240
So these three little ETs they float Linda out of her 12th floor window on a blue beam of light.
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:17.039
So boom, outside of the apartment.
00:19:17.200 --> 00:19:19.359
She's in a long, flowy white nightgown.
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:20.160
Cute.
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:27.119
And she's carried upward toward a large glowing reddish-orange craft accompanied by these three little creatures.
00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:28.000
In the sky.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:28.720
In the sky.
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:30.720
Above Manhattan, above little Italy.
00:19:30.960 --> 00:19:31.359
That's right.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:32.240
That's exactly right.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:34.319
Not to cut you off.
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.720
I'm I'm just maybe misremembering something, but I'm almost certain I know the story.
00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:41.519
Um, and this is where like the police are involved.
00:19:41.759 --> 00:19:43.839
Um my god, no spoilers, Greg.
00:19:44.000 --> 00:19:50.400
No, no, I just want to make sure, like, I'm because I'm I might be thinking of something else, and like I'm just attaching police and quotation marks.
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:50.559
Right.
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.400
But I believe you are thinking of the right story.
00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:53.599
And like one sees it.
00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:54.240
Okay, yeah.
00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:55.039
Just go on, yeah.
00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:56.400
So the police see the okay.
00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:57.039
Don't tell me.
00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:57.440
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.160
So I thought it was interesting.
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:08.960
Some of the depictions uh of this reddish-orange craft were pretty similar to the craft uh that was described in Travis Walton's experience.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:10.559
Oh, organic sky.
00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:14.000
Kind of organic, kind of lava-y with the the thing opening up.
00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:15.920
I just thought that was an interesting parallel.
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:21.440
So she gets up there, she's in the craft, it moves away towards the Brooklyn Bridge.
00:20:21.839 --> 00:20:28.000
Um, the aliens, they're communicating with her telepathically, and they tell her to shut up in a foreign language.
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:33.039
So somehow she like they they speak in a foreign language, right?
00:20:33.200 --> 00:20:35.119
And she knows that they are telling her to shut up.
00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:35.599
Okay.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.720
So someone's like I said, she's a New York lady.
00:20:38.799 --> 00:20:38.880
Yeah.
00:20:39.039 --> 00:20:39.279
Okay.
00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:40.880
She's letting them giving them what for.
00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:41.279
Yeah.
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:41.599
You know.
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:46.160
And also sometimes shut up is universal, you know, like you don't need the actual words.
00:20:46.319 --> 00:20:46.559
You know.
00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:47.440
You know what they want.
00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:48.720
Like 3 a.m.
00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:52.240
in Manhattan, though, someone had to have seen a craft, right?
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:54.000
Yeah, we'll get to that for sure.
00:20:54.480 --> 00:20:56.559
Um, so they telepathically communicate with her.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:57.680
Shut up, Linda.
00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:03.039
They're move towards the bridge, and then the next thing she knows, she's falling.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:03.519
Oh no.
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.039
She she often recounts she's falling from two inches or two feet.
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:07.680
She's not sure.
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:08.799
Into the East River?
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:10.960
Into her bed next to Steve.
00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:11.599
Weird.
00:21:11.920 --> 00:21:14.319
She falls back down into her bed next to Steve.
00:21:14.559 --> 00:21:17.279
I know what she means about two inches or two feet or whatever.
00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:18.960
You ever like fall off a curb?
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.440
Yeah.
00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:20.319
You know what I mean?
00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:21.039
Like that feeling.
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:22.160
Miscount the steps.
00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:23.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.000
Missing a step is exactly what I was thinking.
00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:28.880
It's like, oh, you fell six inches, but you almost died.
00:21:29.039 --> 00:21:29.279
Yeah.
00:21:29.359 --> 00:21:29.519
Yeah.
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:30.240
Yeah.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.000
So that that part's legit.
00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:32.480
Yeah.
00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:37.279
And so, yeah, her senses are pretty wild or out of whack at that stage.
00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:39.359
And so then the next morning she calls Bud.
00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:40.480
She's like, But they took me.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:41.119
They took me again.
00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:43.200
You know, they they came and got me.
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:45.759
Bud is like, goodness gracious, great balls of fire.
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:47.039
I can't believe this is happening.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:48.720
Like, let's I'm on my way.
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:49.680
Yeah, I'm on my way.
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:59.599
Um, and and so that is something that is different about this case, uh, at least initially at this time, is that there is a claim of outside witnesses in but.
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:07.279
He says that he identified 23 people who were witnesses to various portions of this event.
00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:08.079
Yeah.
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:09.440
Shut up.
00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:10.240
Yeah.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:12.960
23 people saw various portions of this event.
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:14.559
And they witnessed different pieces.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:16.400
Some people saw some weird lights in the sky.
00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:17.920
Some people saw the UFO.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.920
Some people saw a single person floating.
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.279
Some people saw the whole crew.
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:24.559
Linda plus her three little friends floating up.
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:31.440
And then some people reported the ever ambiguous strange activity near near the apartment.
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:32.000
Sure.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.839
So it's unclear of what that was, but certainly altogether.
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:37.599
Some some weird stuff going on.
00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:42.319
So yeah, a lot of people did see things happen.
00:22:42.640 --> 00:22:44.960
I feel like 23 people is not enough people.
00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:49.359
23 people to me in New York City means they're lying.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:51.359
It needs to be like 2300 people.
00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:52.079
I don't know.
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.559
I think for a story like this, 23 is like more than you would normally get.
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:57.440
Absolutely.
00:22:57.519 --> 00:22:58.480
And that's why it's a lie.
00:22:58.640 --> 00:23:00.000
That's why it's suspicious.
00:23:02.319 --> 00:23:07.839
Well, so many of these people, and then this is some issues that people have with this later.
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:17.440
Many of these people remain anonymous, use pseudonyms, they're communicate these confirmations, these sightings through letters, phone calls, tapes in the mail.
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.160
This is 89 that we're talking.
00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:25.599
So it makes public public verification of these corroborating statements difficult.
00:23:26.319 --> 00:23:32.160
I'm sure you guys have had these experiences in researching a lot of the stories that we research, you're like partway into it.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:37.039
And then like the the writer or filmmaker will drop a like, now here's where it gets strange.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:37.440
Oh yeah.
00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:42.960
I think we're already in the strange territory, but like here's where it gets strange.
00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:43.200
Yeah.
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:43.680
Maybe.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:44.000
Okay.
00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:50.079
In in 1991, Bud gets a letter from two men calling themselves Richard and Dan.
00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:50.400
Yeah.
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:50.880
Okay.
00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:51.359
Okay.
00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:52.480
This is this is what I'm saying.
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:53.440
This is Greg's cops.
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:58.000
And so, yeah, Richard and Dan initially are like, we're New York City police officers.
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:02.240
And we saw the subduction from our car underneath the FDR.
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:04.000
Bud's like, tell me more.
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:04.319
Yeah.
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:05.759
Via letter, apparently.
00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:06.240
Okay.
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:17.039
And they're like, look, Bud, Buddy, Bud, we're actually running security for a very high-level VIP, is what we're what we were up to.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:20.000
We're driving this person who shall remain nameless.
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:22.880
We're taking them to the Helo pad down in Lower Manhattan.
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:24.400
Our car breaks down under the FDR.
00:24:24.640 --> 00:24:27.680
They witness, they see a person floating out of the window.
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:29.440
And Bud's like, that's my friend Linda.
00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:29.839
Yeah.
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:33.119
And Richard and Dann is like, the VIP saw it as well.
00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:34.720
And Bud's like, that's great.
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:35.680
I'm actually writing a book.
00:24:35.920 --> 00:24:37.920
And they're like, we can't tell you who it is.
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:42.079
But if you try to figure it out, then you can then maybe you could figure it out.
00:24:42.160 --> 00:24:43.599
And Bud's like, I'm gonna figure it out.
00:24:43.759 --> 00:24:44.000
Okay.
00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:50.799
So they're like, it's a major international political figure who would have had security personnel and would have been in Manhattan that night.
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:52.799
Is this information that they're saying to him?
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:56.960
Yeah, I like that they're trying to like tease him into who it could possibly be.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:01.759
Like, if here are some clues, and it's like a weird game show that he has to figure out now.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:15.200
It it it is it's so strange, but like also not not like not that uncommon with like journalism where they're like, we're gonna give you a nugget, but like we I'm not gonna confirm, I'm not gonna tell you, but I'll give you some clues.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:26.799
And I don't know, maybe it's like their job as as security that if you know somebody comes back or they're subpoenaed that they can say under oath that they never said who this person was or something like that.
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:28.960
This part of the story, I believe.
00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:29.680
Sure.
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:31.519
Yeah, yeah.
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.359
So they're like, it's a major political figure, you figure it out.
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:39.359
But fast forward to Bud at the 1992 MUFON presentation.
00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:41.920
Bud's there, he's speaking at the conference.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.759
He's talking about Linda's case.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:46.160
Bud says, We know the identity of the third man.
00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:47.359
That's what we started to call him.
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:49.599
I received a letter from him signed to the third man.
00:25:49.759 --> 00:25:54.400
I've been able to check on his identity in another way, and it's clear beyond a shadow of a doubt.
00:25:54.720 --> 00:26:06.720
And Hopkins, Bud, eventually discloses that the person was Javier Perez de Quilar, then Secretary General of the UN, is who they were escorting in his book Witnessed.
00:26:07.119 --> 00:26:16.559
But also he tells about there was a time where a reporter had arranged an interview with Perez d'Equilar in uh during a layover at Chicago O'Hare.
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.400
Uh, and Bud sneak attacks him.
00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:20.319
Bud goes there and sneak attacks him.
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.559
He's like, What about that UFO you saw?
00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:27.759
And Perez d'Equilar is like cagey, and he's like, I don't know what you're talking about.
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:31.359
And Bud's like, that's exactly what someone who saw a UFO book would say.
00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:33.440
And then he's like, fucking P.S.
00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:35.039
Tell Linda to call me.
00:26:35.279 --> 00:26:40.480
Yeah, and like, so yeah, Bud's on some gotcha shit with this guy like surprise, motherfucker.
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:42.960
That's exactly what someone was saying.
00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:49.440
Yeah, and I mean that that kind of is he's Bud's like, I could tell from the way that he reacted that he knew about the incident.
00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:49.839
Oh, yeah.
00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:52.079
You scared the shit out of him at an airport.
00:26:53.039 --> 00:26:54.400
That was Bud's interpretation.
00:26:54.640 --> 00:26:58.160
He knew Vanity Fair contacts Perez Dickwilar.
00:26:58.319 --> 00:27:01.599
He's an international politician, like he's a very famous dude.
00:27:01.920 --> 00:27:03.839
Um they contact him in 2012.
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:10.640
He claims he does not remember being questioned by Hopkins, cannot definitively confirm or deny the claims due to the passage of time.
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:18.559
But I don't know if you if you if you're a politician at that time and you drop a can't confirm or deny about a UFO story.
00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:20.240
That's a confirmation.
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:20.799
Right.
00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:21.119
Yeah.
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:22.720
That's like that's not a no.
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.039
Yeah.
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.759
Why would you just not be like, I don't know what you're talking about?
00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:26.079
Yeah.
00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:34.480
Is he saying that he cannot confirm confirm nor deny that that uh bud assaulted him in the airport?
00:27:34.880 --> 00:27:38.880
Or is he saying I can't confirm nor deny that I saw Linda flying above Manhattan?
00:27:39.119 --> 00:27:40.640
It's unclear, but maybe both.
00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:41.200
Sure.
00:27:41.359 --> 00:27:48.799
For sure about Bud, but I think that they also referenced the UFO when they when they followed up with them.
00:27:49.039 --> 00:27:53.599
So I did, I yeah, I did find that interesting that he dropped a can't confirm or deny.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.839
And there are there are reports, however, that he did privately confirm this sighting.
00:27:58.720 --> 00:28:00.160
So unconfirmed.
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:02.079
I think they reports that he confirmed it.
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:20.799
They might use something like that because they don't know what you're talking about, or it's just a way that like if you worded something in a specific way that could be a gotcha when it comes to journalism, and if you were like, Oh, I don't know what you're talking about, but like if you listen back to like what the question actually was, they're gonna be like, Oh, well, now you're lying, and like I don't know.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:24.480
I feel like that's like it's such a safe way to answer something for sure.
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:28.559
And it it does, I don't it says Vanity Fair contacted him.
00:28:28.960 --> 00:28:34.480
I don't know how they might have sent him a letter that one of his aides responded to in a super ambiguous manner, right?
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:39.200
Yeah, he can't confirm nor deny anything you just asked.
00:28:39.440 --> 00:28:40.559
He's an old man, leave him alone.
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:41.440
Good day, sir.
00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:42.240
Yeah, yeah.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.119
Yeah, I was thinking back to um Louis C.K.
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:49.519
asking Dick Cheney if he was a lizard person, or was it Donald Romsfeld?
00:28:49.599 --> 00:28:54.160
I forget which one it was, but it was like on a radio uh interview.
00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:56.480
I I think it was Dick Cheney, and then Louis C.K.
00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:57.200
was like on the panel.
00:28:57.279 --> 00:28:59.119
He's like, Yeah, but are you a lizard person?
00:28:59.279 --> 00:29:03.200
And like he just keeps skipping the like he didn't hear it.
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:03.519
Right.
00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:06.000
And he's like, We're not saying no.
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:09.200
Yeah, yeah.
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:10.720
Well, he didn't say no.
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:12.559
Okay, he didn't say no.
00:29:12.799 --> 00:29:15.920
So again, the timeline on this is fucking whack.
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:16.720
So we're backing up.
00:29:16.880 --> 00:29:17.119
Okay.
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:18.240
We're backing up now.
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:24.720
That's kind of the I went there because that's the end of that arm of this story, the politician story.
00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:26.000
Do those two dudes come back?
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:26.720
Yeah, don't you worry.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:27.200
Okay, good.
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:28.000
They're coming back strong.
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:30.240
So like these guys.
00:29:30.559 --> 00:29:32.640
April 29th, 1991, not for long.
00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:36.160
Okay, Linda walked her son Johnny to the bus stop.
00:29:36.319 --> 00:29:37.279
Johnny sounds so fake.
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:38.640
Johnny is totally fake.
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:40.160
Also, no one takes the bus.
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:43.920
Yeah, so she's walking him to the yeah, that is strange.
00:29:44.079 --> 00:29:46.400
I good good catch, Michelle.
00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:50.000
Yeah, he lives in, they live, he's walking to a school.
00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:52.240
Yeah, kids aren't really taking buses.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:29:54.559
I mean, maybe he was going to a private institution somewhere.
00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:54.960
We don't know.
00:29:55.119 --> 00:29:57.119
Uh he may have gotten into a fancy school, also.
00:29:57.440 --> 00:29:58.240
Yep, that's possible.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:29:59.359
Or like a school for the arts.
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:04.079
So she walks Johnny to the bus stop and she's on her way home after she after she drops him off.
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:06.960
Richard and Dan roll up, the two security guys.
00:30:07.839 --> 00:30:09.680
And they're like, Why don't you get in the car?
00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:10.799
No, don't get in the car.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.000
Yeah, she said, kick rocks.
00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:12.720
Get the fuck out of here.
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:13.519
I'm not getting the car.
00:30:13.680 --> 00:30:14.319
Kick rocks.
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:15.279
Yeah, kick rocks.
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:16.799
Get out of here, Richard and Dan.
00:30:17.039 --> 00:30:17.759
Let's bring that back.
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:20.000
So Richard, Richard forces her inside the car.
00:30:20.319 --> 00:30:21.359
Richard, you can't do that.
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:22.160
Well, he did.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:24.720
And they drove her around for three and a half hours.
00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:25.440
That's too long.
00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:31.599
Interrogating her about the November 1989 abduction, the one that everybody saw her coming out the window.
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:32.400
Why?
00:30:32.640 --> 00:30:34.079
The ones that they the one that they saw.
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:42.640
They want to know, tell us about the abduction, where you were working for the government, show us your toes to prove that you're human and not an alien hybrid.
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:43.599
Your toes.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:45.680
They may are they related to each other?
00:30:45.920 --> 00:30:46.559
Richard and Dan?
00:30:46.799 --> 00:30:46.960
Yeah.
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:47.599
I don't know.
00:30:47.839 --> 00:30:48.160
Okay.
00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:49.759
They're security cops.
00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:50.960
How do they find each other?
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:52.480
They're matchmade in heaven.
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:52.960
Yeah.
00:30:53.119 --> 00:30:53.359
Yeah.
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:55.599
Well, I mean, it's like, you know, it's like Mulder and Scully.
00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:57.519
Sometimes you just get a partner that works.
00:30:58.160 --> 00:30:59.440
Yeah, but she wasn't up.
00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:01.759
She wasn't trying to hear his antics a lot.
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:03.039
But that's what made him great.
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:05.680
Yeah, but I guess she would be like, all right, let me see the toes.
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:07.279
There's like a yinning yinning to it.
00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:07.839
You know what I mean?
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:08.640
Yeah, exactly.
00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.160
Let's pop them toes out.
00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:10.640
Yeah.
00:31:10.720 --> 00:31:15.279
So they're like, show us your toes to prove that you're not a human alien hybrid.
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.839
And so, like, I they they forced her to show, like, I think they just took her shoes and socks off.
00:31:20.079 --> 00:31:20.799
Pass the test.
00:31:21.119 --> 00:31:24.319
This feels like this is kidnapping.
00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:26.160
This is assault.
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:28.559
I uh call the cops, Linda.
00:31:28.799 --> 00:31:32.400
Uh we're not they drove me around and forced me to show them my feet.
00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:34.480
We're not quite done with Richard and Dan.
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:35.200
Okay.
00:31:35.680 --> 00:31:37.039
Man, people are crazy as hell.
00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:38.960
Richard and Dan are crazy as hell.
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:41.759
Men and women alike in this story, it's men.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.079
Uh, but like, man, they're crazy as hell.
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:49.279
So at some point with these interactions, uh, Dan gets a thing for Linda.
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:50.480
Of course.
00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:51.759
He's vibing Linda.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:54.160
Don't maybe, maybe he saw those toads and things.
00:31:55.599 --> 00:31:56.079
Dan, for sure.
00:31:56.400 --> 00:31:57.759
You know, I couldn't get him out of his head.
00:31:58.000 --> 00:31:59.519
That's what this is all about.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:05.039
He had a boner for this lady, the halt for years, and then kidnapped her off the street.
00:32:05.279 --> 00:32:10.400
Well, he had a crazy boner because he kidnapped her again on October 15th, 1991 by himself.
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.720
No, takes her to a beach house on Long Island.
00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:13.279
No.
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:14.799
And to do what, who knows?
00:32:14.880 --> 00:32:15.119
Right.
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:17.759
I just he's just like, this could be our life, Linda.
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.200
We could be out here on the beach.
00:32:19.519 --> 00:32:25.119
I think it's he's more of like uh obsessed with her rather than like assault, sexual assault.
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:25.519
Yeah.
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.240
Okay.
00:32:26.559 --> 00:32:29.039
Not uh bad.
00:32:29.519 --> 00:32:31.279
Bad, bad, bad, bad.
00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.240
It's all bad, yeah.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:36.000
He's like, we could live out here on the beach, we could play Parchey, this could be our life.
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:36.720
What do you think?
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:39.279
And Richard is Richard shows up at some point.
00:32:39.440 --> 00:32:41.200
He's like, Dan, you're out of your fucking mind.
00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:41.519
Yeah.
00:32:41.599 --> 00:32:43.359
Uh this was our spot.
00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:44.240
Yeah.
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:45.200
It's a Linda.
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:46.400
Linda escapes.
00:32:46.559 --> 00:32:48.400
She she gets she gets out of there.
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:49.200
She's away.
00:32:49.359 --> 00:32:51.839
And so, like, put a pin in that for just a second.
00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:56.960
Uh that that's October 1991, 1992.
00:32:57.119 --> 00:33:04.400
A group of UFO investigators interview Linda, and that group is led by Joseph Stefula, who's a former special agent with the U.S.
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:06.079
Army criminal investigation.
00:33:06.160 --> 00:33:09.599
But at the time, he's the MUFON state director for New Jersey.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:10.079
Okay.
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:11.759
I run Mufon in North Jersey.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:12.480
That's okay.
00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:12.960
That's right.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:13.920
He's got that going on.
00:33:14.079 --> 00:33:15.519
Yeah, and he has a crazy name.
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:19.519
So he's there with his buddy Richard Butler, who's a former U.S.
00:33:19.599 --> 00:33:24.400
Air Force law enforcement officer, security police specialist, who also became a UFO investigator.
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:29.599
So these guys are both ex-military investigators into UFOs doing the thing.
00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:33.839
Butler had been a part of Bud's UFO abductee group.
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:41.680
So he'd been coming to these groups for some time, knew the circle, knew Linda from these groups, was very much involved with these people.
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:45.680
In the fall of 1991, he invited Stefula to the group, Joseph.
00:33:46.079 --> 00:33:52.400
And after the second kidnapping, Linda reaches out to him because he's like a former law enforcement military guy.
00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:54.079
She's like, I'm scared as hell.
00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:55.680
Like I'm in fear for my life.
00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:00.960
And so she kind of develops a little bit of a rapport with him based on these interactions.
00:34:01.200 --> 00:34:13.519
And so in February of 92, they do kind of a formal interview with her, in that they they find some contradictions in her statements and the information presented by Bud.
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:18.239
And so Linda starts to kind of sweat a little bit in this interview, and she's like, Don't tell Bud.
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:21.679
Please don't tell Bud about these questions.
00:34:21.920 --> 00:34:22.159
Yeah.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:29.199
And so then back in July of '92, this is that same move on presentation where Bud was like, I know who the third man is.
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:29.599
Right.
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:30.559
Same speech.
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:31.519
We're back there.
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.719
We're kind of these timelines have converged back to this point.
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:35.199
Got it.
00:34:35.360 --> 00:34:37.039
Linda's been kidnapped a bunch of times.
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:38.559
So fucking crazy.
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:39.760
The UN secretary.
00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:44.159
I just I it's the UN secretary when I was a kid was Boutros Boutros Gali.
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:47.519
And so I keep wanting to refer to him as Boutros Boutros Gali, but it's not.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:47.920
Yes.
00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:50.079
But I might, I might at some point.
00:34:51.119 --> 00:35:01.679
So just so I have this right, she doesn't call a cop, she calls her buddy at MUFON who used to do security for the army or whatever.
00:35:02.079 --> 00:35:06.239
Yeah, I think because there are some people that are like Richard and Dan are the men in black.
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:06.800
Right.
00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:15.760
You know, so that they're and I think that Linda's more on that side of things rather than like I was just kidnapped by a by a guy who is obsessed with me.
00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:20.000
You know, not like she's in like an episode of X-Files, not like an episode of Dateline.
00:35:20.239 --> 00:35:20.559
Got it.
00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:22.480
So she so that's why she yeah, for sure.
00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:25.840
She's kind of aware of like who these people are and like what they're capable of.
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.679
And like if they if she m mentioned it to the police, like they're above the police.
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:30.639
Of course, yeah.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:31.199
Yeah.
00:35:31.360 --> 00:35:33.599
And she doesn't think the police are gonna believe her or do anything.
00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:38.719
And they probably wouldn't, you know, but like maybe they would arrest him for being a stalker ass stalker.
00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:41.039
He would flash a badge or something, just get out of it.
00:35:41.199 --> 00:35:42.400
Yeah, what am I gonna do?
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:43.119
Arrest myself.
00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:44.159
I am the law.
00:35:44.480 --> 00:35:44.880
That's right.
00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:46.239
You know, typical Richard.
00:35:47.039 --> 00:35:47.920
Fuck, dude.
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:53.519
Dude, so Bud's at Mufon, he's presenting the case alongside Linda.
00:35:53.599 --> 00:35:54.960
Linda's there with him.
00:35:55.360 --> 00:36:00.239
They're recounting the Brooklyn Bridge alien abduction at Mufon.
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.880
Bud says this is the most important case of my career.
00:36:03.039 --> 00:36:04.480
This is the case of the century.
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.199
All that you can read in the the MUFON UFO journal article.
00:36:10.559 --> 00:36:12.559
Bud dabbled in the MUFON journal before.
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:14.159
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
00:36:14.400 --> 00:36:20.159
And Bud believes that this case objectively proves both physical alien abductions.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:22.719
Uh, the implant is part of that.
00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:24.880
You know, there's that like physical evidence.
00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:26.719
But there was no physical evidence.
00:36:26.880 --> 00:36:27.760
You mean the scarring?
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:28.320
The scarring.
00:36:28.559 --> 00:36:29.119
Or whatever.
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:38.800
So Bud believes that the scarring in Linda's nose objectively proves both physical alien abductions and the accuracy of his hypnotic regression technique.
00:36:39.039 --> 00:36:40.000
These are part of these things.
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:41.199
Double whammy for Bud.
00:36:41.440 --> 00:36:41.599
Totally.
00:36:41.840 --> 00:36:43.119
This is good news for Bud.
00:36:43.599 --> 00:36:43.840
Check.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:44.320
Yep.
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:46.639
This case is going great.
00:36:48.480 --> 00:36:54.559
A few months after that, the group that interviewed Linda, the kind of UFO investigator skeptic military guys.
00:36:54.719 --> 00:36:54.960
Yeah.
00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.960
They meet with Bud at his house to discuss the discrepancies in the case.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:36:59.920
Oh my God.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:01.199
Thank fucking God.
00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:04.639
I thought you were gonna tell me they did it at MUFON and embarrassed everybody.
00:37:04.800 --> 00:37:06.639
And poor Bud went home crying.
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:08.079
That's what I thought was gonna happen.
00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:11.199
Thank God they were decent men and did it behind closed doors.
00:37:11.440 --> 00:37:11.760
That's right.
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:12.480
Okay, that's right.
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:13.119
Thank you.
00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:16.719
The discrepancies there's a lot.
00:37:16.880 --> 00:37:22.079
A lot of it is just there are a lot of different accounts of these things.
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:33.440
And when you get into the repressed memory stuff, it makes everything, not that it it discounts everything, but it makes everything a little bit muddy and more difficult to parse out.
00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:45.280
Yeah, because like you you'll get into some situations where people are talking about being dinosaurs and stuff and repressed memories and it's like okay, like yeah, is it a repressed memory or is it a dream?
00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:48.320
You know, is it you're are you having imagination?
00:37:48.639 --> 00:37:49.599
Is that what's happening?
00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:51.599
You're suffering from imagination.
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:55.920
Some people with a lot of doctorates ask those very same questions.
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:57.360
I should have a doctorate.
00:37:57.519 --> 00:37:58.800
Yeah, yeah.
00:37:59.199 --> 00:38:06.239
Um, and so you know, when they're talking to Bud at his house, he's like, I'm not gonna talk to you guys about this because guess what?
00:38:06.400 --> 00:38:07.440
You want to know the details?
00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:08.320
You gotta buy the book.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:09.280
Hell yeah, dude.
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:11.360
Fucking sell that book.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:15.519
Yeah, and so in four years, four years, you know right now.
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:16.480
You gotta buy the book.
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:18.079
Pre-order now.
00:38:18.400 --> 00:38:28.960
Yeah, and these guys they do publish like a detailed critique showing the the skepticism was like ripe in the UFO community early on with this one.
00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:32.000
So there were they were poking some holes in it for sure.
00:38:32.320 --> 00:38:45.760
And and a lot of those holes were centered around what you guys just talked about with the uh that you can transform dreams or fantasies into false memories in hypnotic regression.
00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:58.480
You know, the the hypnotist, hypnotherapist can take subtle clues, suggestive questioning, and can create in the person like a completely authentic feeling but inaccurate memory.
00:38:58.639 --> 00:39:10.480
That's what people say, the the you can do this, which is just a really interesting phenomenon in itself that you could potentially create a suppressed alien abduction memory in a person.
00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:17.440
Again, man, I I didn't don't intentionally keep coming back to this, but a belief is true to the person who holds it.
00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:27.039
Yeah, that you you put this memory in a person, and so all this person now has this authentic abduction experience that was suggested to them.
00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:31.440
And like our minds are are so susceptible to suggestion, you know.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:47.519
We've talked about psyops a lot and things like that, and it's it it makes so much sense that if you're at a a UFO support group for a long time, you know, and then you start to get put under hypnosis, it just makes sense that you you want to be a part of that thing.
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:49.679
Yeah, you know, you want to be a part of that thing.
00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:56.320
So not not to say that this is what happened with Linda, but this is the argument against hypnotic regression for for a lot of this stuff.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:06.719
I always think about like true crime shows where the detectives are always talking about eyewitness accounts and how over time we've discovered how unreliable they are.
00:40:06.880 --> 00:40:07.039
Yeah.
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:12.079
And you can watch people like live changing, oh yeah, it was a white shirt.
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:15.920
Now that you mention it, maybe there was a black stripe on the van.
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:19.039
Or now that you said that, you know, I am remembering this or that.
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:30.159
And it's not that people are lying, it's just that we're we're we can visually see the memory in our mind and it can change right before our mind's eye, you know.
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:37.760
It's like what happens in um interrogations too, when you have someone that like, well, like why would someone confess to something that they didn't do?
00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:38.079
Right.
00:40:38.239 --> 00:40:41.760
And it all comes down to like psychological stress and like a lot of other reasons.
00:40:41.920 --> 00:40:49.840
And what people will end up doing and lawyers will check is the actual videotape or they'll listen to the audio of the interrogation.
00:40:50.000 --> 00:40:56.000
And it's like, well, is the detective giving them all of the details or are they offering it up without being prompted?
00:40:56.159 --> 00:41:05.119
And a lot of times in those cases, it's like the detective is prompting those persons and like giving all of the details to which they're saying, Yes, that's what it was.
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:05.679
Yeah.
00:41:05.920 --> 00:41:16.880
Yeah, I've even seen ones where the audio is different than the video in the sense that like the officer who's conducting the interrogation might be saying, like, and then what did you do?
00:41:17.039 --> 00:41:29.519
But he's like has his hand on his neck or something, like you know, like just visual clues to tell the person what to say or where the injury was that the person wasn't getting beforehand, you know.
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:35.840
There's some really egregious ones where they'll do that and the person giving the false confession is like, I stabbed him.
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:38.880
And then they do like the throat thing and they're like, You sure you stabbed him?
00:41:38.960 --> 00:41:39.039
Yeah.
00:41:39.199 --> 00:41:40.719
And they're like, No, I strangled him.
00:41:40.880 --> 00:41:40.960
Yeah.
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:42.880
They're like, Yeah, that's right, you did, didn't you?
00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:43.519
Yeah, it's crazy.
00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:44.000
You liked it.
00:41:44.880 --> 00:41:45.920
It's so crazy.
00:41:46.000 --> 00:41:47.360
It's like, who should be in jail?
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:47.760
Yeah.
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:48.880
You know, the cops.
00:41:48.960 --> 00:41:49.920
The cops should be in jail.
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.119
Maybe Bud should be in jail.
00:41:51.360 --> 00:41:53.440
Hop take Linda needs to go to jail.
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:58.159
Uh, Bud disputes that he led anybody in his hypnotic regression sessions.
00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.320
And he had professional observers there.
00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:15.119
Um, a psychologist, Nicholas Humphrey, who'd done a lot of work in consciousness, had observed Bud doing these sessions with people, a psychiatrist Donald Klein, who was well versed in psychoanalysis and psychopharmacology, countless, endless hours in patient observation.
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:19.119
Also observed Bud doing these, and they did not conclude that he was leading subjects.
00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:19.599
Great.
00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.800
So Bud has some a little bit of backing there.
00:42:23.039 --> 00:42:30.079
Um, but yeah, that to say, there was a lot of skeptics about this process and this case in particular.
00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:36.639
And in 1996, the 400-page account laying out the entire premise of Linda's abduction is published.
00:42:36.800 --> 00:42:45.920
Oh, we've got multiple witnesses, security agents, major political figure, physical evidence, hypnotic evidence, human extraterrestrial hybrid breeding program.
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:46.639
Hell yeah.
00:42:46.880 --> 00:42:47.599
This summer.
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:48.320
Fuck yeah.
00:42:48.480 --> 00:42:50.079
Vin Diesel is Linda Napoleon.
00:42:51.119 --> 00:42:58.400
Vin Diesel is Linda and witnessed the true story of the Brooklyn UFO abductions, Brooklyn Bridge UFO abductions.
00:42:58.719 --> 00:43:02.000
Vin Diesel is someone I haven't thought about in a long time.
00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:03.599
Yeah, you go see that movie.
00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:05.360
Vin Diesel is Linda.
00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:10.400
You guys cracked me up.
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:13.119
Again, just prior to this because of the fucking timeline.
00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:15.119
So we're backing up just a hair.
00:43:15.280 --> 00:43:15.519
Of course.
00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:17.360
Carol Rainey enters the chat.
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:18.880
Carol is the wife.
00:43:19.119 --> 00:43:19.519
Yep.
00:43:20.079 --> 00:43:24.880
Carol met Bud while he was still working on witnessed the book.
00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:28.159
And the the same year it's published, they marry in 1996.
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.920
Carol's the filmmaker, she's documenting Bud Bud's process, these groups.
00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:33.840
She's the one who's taking all this videotape.
00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:37.039
And and generally documenting everything that he's up to.
00:43:37.119 --> 00:43:39.440
She's she's married to him, but she's also a fan.
00:43:39.519 --> 00:43:40.800
She thinks the work is fascinating.
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:42.320
It should be documented.
00:43:42.559 --> 00:43:44.239
So there's a lot of footage about this.
00:43:44.320 --> 00:43:48.079
They co author a book called Sight Unseen Together in 2003.
00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:49.360
She's in it.
00:43:49.519 --> 00:43:52.320
Um, she knows Linda, knows her well.
00:43:52.559 --> 00:43:54.159
Linda was really close with Bud.
00:43:54.239 --> 00:43:55.360
They worked together for years.
00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:58.000
They did speaking engagements, they traveled together.
00:43:58.239 --> 00:43:59.519
And it's not explicitly said.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:03.840
I watched some some interviews and some documentaries about this stuff.
00:44:03.920 --> 00:44:06.400
It's not explicitly said, but like for yeah.
00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:08.400
They were scissors.
00:44:09.199 --> 00:44:13.760
There's some there's some uh some pretty serious animosity between Linda and Carol.
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:16.559
And so it seemed like maybe I don't know.
00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:19.039
Maybe Carol didn't like how close Bud and Linda were.
00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:19.519
Sure.
00:44:19.679 --> 00:44:20.159
That's all I'm saying.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:23.760
What wife was there's also some lawsuits around this, so I'm gonna leave it at that.
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:29.840
So I was gonna say, I think it's like it gets into like a weird, like true crime sort of area at a certain point with the story.
00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:32.320
Oh, does Carol try to kill Linda?
00:44:32.639 --> 00:44:34.639
Carol, well, she tries to kill her with words.
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:35.360
Fuck yeah.
00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:37.519
Which are stronger than the sword.
00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:38.159
Mm-hmm.
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:40.320
So sticks and stones and whatnot.
00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:40.960
That's right.
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:55.760
And so over time, Carol starts to Carol was raised in a religious cult and she starts to make some connections with the zealousness which with Bud is going about this UFO business and presenting and defending these accounts.
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:58.000
Um she's like, there's a familiarity.
00:44:58.639 --> 00:44:59.440
Trauma response.
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:20.719
Yeah, with the with the cult the in which she was raised, and she's like, oh, this is this is familiar, and and I don't I don't like to see the when holes were start to poked or people were asking questions, the complete lack of like openness to anything, just like a very closed-minded no it's a this is what happened, this is what it's about.
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:26.880
Just like, yeah, wouldn't hear any criticism or any have unwilling to have a conversation about this stuff.
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:34.800
Um, so her eyes are open to a lot of the discrepancies in the story, um, the different accounts, the different timelines, the lack of evidence.
00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:41.360
And eventually Carol publishes an essay laying it all out, which is essentially a takedown of Bud and Linda.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:42.400
Shit.
00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:44.960
In the essay, I think while she's still married to him?
00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:48.239
It's a little bit like I think this was the end of the thing.
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:49.440
Yeah, one foot out the door.
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:49.840
Yeah.
00:45:50.079 --> 00:45:50.320
Shit.
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:54.159
And so all the people to marry, she marries someone just like her father.
00:45:54.480 --> 00:45:54.719
Dude.
00:45:55.119 --> 00:45:56.320
Or whoever got her into that cult.
00:45:56.800 --> 00:45:57.760
Preach her father, for sure.
00:45:58.000 --> 00:45:58.559
Yeah, for sure.
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:08.000
Yeah, so a couple of excerpts from the essay is he continued to tout the major significance of the case long after he knew that Linda had lied to him on multiple occasions.
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:13.039
They're driven by the rules of the game they're in to whip up their best cases to drive them hard.
00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:18.960
They can no longer extricate themselves from the surreal, richly imaginative blend of fantasy and reality.
00:46:19.519 --> 00:46:25.920
So, again, that was a lot of gray area, a lot of imagination, maybe dreams, fantasies that you talked about.
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:30.639
And for Bud and everybody in the inner circle, it's just like betrayal.
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:32.719
Oh, yeah, that be Carol.
00:46:33.199 --> 00:46:35.920
Yeah, just the ultimate betrayal.
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:36.559
For sure.
00:46:36.800 --> 00:46:42.800
Still many years later, people got a lot of choice words about Carol and what she did, that bitch Carol Rainey.
00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:43.599
That's right.
00:46:46.159 --> 00:46:48.079
Uh rest in peace, Carol, by the way.
00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:59.280
Yeah, and Carol consequently becomes one of the case's most prominent critics, and she's banging the drum on saying that Bud's emotional investment in the story compromise his objectivity.
00:47:00.159 --> 00:47:06.960
And do we think that's what it like do you think that there's almost like a drug addict or an alcoholic?
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:17.119
Like, if you admit that you're wrong, then the whole fucking thing, like your conscious, like you're your subconscious and your psyche can't handle it if this isn't true.
00:47:17.840 --> 00:47:19.519
I I think that's part of it.
00:47:19.679 --> 00:47:27.119
I also think that he has a view that if he comes off any of this stuff, that his credibility is gonna be his whole life.
00:47:27.280 --> 00:47:30.239
Yeah, his career any credibility he has is gone.
00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:39.280
Yeah, you know, and and so like we talk about a lot, the nugget of truth to this, and then everything that's built on top of that.
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:56.960
And I believe that Bud was a believer, but Bud was also had uh bills to pay, had a career, you know, and um he's publishing books, he's doing speaking, and it's like, man, if you come off it or change your mind that this case was not true, there goes your speaking engagements, your book sales.
00:47:57.280 --> 00:48:00.079
I think that happens with a lot of people in a lot of different areas.
00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:16.559
Like if you think of people that are let's say head of their field in archaeology, and they've built their whole entire career on, say, like Egyptology and like understanding the timelines and like everything that goes into it, and then you find out that like Egypt isn't real?
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:27.440
No, no, but like maybe there was something older, or like the what you believed and like were spouting for the past 25 years probably isn't true, and you're gonna have to change your whole outlook on everything.
00:48:27.920 --> 00:48:30.719
You no longer are like an expert.
00:48:30.960 --> 00:48:40.480
Yeah, well, like you still can be, but it's all in how you frame it and like how you come across it, be like, hey, all of my information was built on X information.
00:48:40.639 --> 00:48:48.000
Now that this new information came out, I'm I'm gonna have to change my outlook and like we we can do better and more deeper research.
00:48:48.159 --> 00:48:50.079
But a lot of those people don't want to do that.
00:48:50.320 --> 00:49:04.880
It's all ego, it's a yeah, and it's a crazy it's all ego, it's a crazy twist of human behavior, an all-too common one that that person who who built their whole career on that thing, and then the new information comes out, they'll go whole hog to discredit that new information.
00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:05.760
Exactly, yeah.
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:13.760
Yeah, instead of accepting it and looking at it and like doing the same scientific method that you did on everything else, you'll just be like, nope.
00:49:13.920 --> 00:49:16.480
Yeah, and it's like that does that's not real.
00:49:17.039 --> 00:49:17.840
I'm the expert.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:24.960
Yeah, well, and then it goes to show like everything that they're now doing is discrediting themselves, like you're not even gonna bother looking.
00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:35.760
Like what you're trying to stay away from by like saying that is bullshit information, yeah, is now making you look worse because you're going so hard at like that isn't like a real thing.
00:49:36.159 --> 00:49:51.119
And this is such a great example of the wrong way to go about that, because if you're in the field of oofology, paranormal research, any of this open-mindedness is like what this field is based on, right?
00:49:51.280 --> 00:50:01.760
You know, and then you get to this point where you kind of establish yourself and all of a sudden you become closed to any to anything outside of that or any any new information or any criticism.
00:50:02.239 --> 00:50:13.920
That's why I like Dan Aykroyd, because Dan Aykroyd is like he's uh on a poster child for being open-minded to the point where he it's just if you say something to him, it's like, yep, that's real.
00:50:14.159 --> 00:50:15.840
Like it doesn't matter what it is.
00:50:16.000 --> 00:50:23.599
But like I think you kind of have to have that outlook and that mindset when it comes to a lot of this stuff where it is just tell me what it is.
00:50:23.679 --> 00:50:26.320
Like we can disseminate the information and figure it out.
00:50:26.400 --> 00:50:34.000
But like, yeah, to just wholeheartedly just say no, that's not that's not real, or like we're just trying to like, well, now we have to discredit that thing.
00:50:34.079 --> 00:50:38.400
It's like, well, you already believe in something that's kind of a wild thing.
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.679
So it's like you may as well just bring this new information in as well.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:45.280
And it's just it is so wild in that field to be like, no, absolutely not.
00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:46.159
Yeah.
00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:52.480
Like when you're when you're talking about aliens and UFOs and things like that, and then it's like a hybrid breeding program.
00:50:52.800 --> 00:50:53.199
Exactly.
00:50:53.360 --> 00:51:00.880
And then to point at something that could make, I don't know, more sense and like be more logical to be like, I don't think so.
00:51:01.199 --> 00:51:02.559
Yeah, that that's fucking crazy.
00:51:02.800 --> 00:51:03.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:05.039
You're trying to take me down.
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:09.519
It's always fun to see like what those little details are, like oh, the government wouldn't do that thing.
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:13.039
Yeah, it's like you're talking about fucking like what are we talking about here?
00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:14.320
Like, of course they would.
00:51:14.719 --> 00:51:17.519
That was a side thing that I couldn't even go down.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:24.000
Was there was speculation that this like government built abduction vehicle.
00:51:24.320 --> 00:51:24.800
Fuck yeah.
00:51:24.960 --> 00:51:26.000
And that like I believe it.
00:51:26.320 --> 00:51:38.480
That was what was what happened to Linda, and it was like, and that's why the head of the UN was like covering it up because there was this like government course, this government side tangent on the thing.
00:51:38.559 --> 00:51:40.159
I was like, I can't even can't even go there.
00:51:40.400 --> 00:51:41.519
I believe that story though.
00:51:41.679 --> 00:52:01.519
Yeah, it's it's it's so crazy when they're just yeah, a lot of these people will, especially in the UFO community, like they'll say, like, the idea of a government, I don't know, a secret government program to build this like new technology, or at least have some sort of like vehicle or some other way of like flying.
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:04.719
And they'll just be like, no, that wouldn't be possible.
00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:10.320
And it's like, well, but you believe that it came from outer space like interdimensionally, yeah.
00:52:10.719 --> 00:52:11.840
That makes sense, right?
00:52:12.000 --> 00:52:19.199
But the idea that it could possibly be some like secret government program, that's that's where you're drawing the line.
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:23.679
Like it's so interesting to see how people will like rationalize these ideas.
00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:28.000
This makes me think of the documentarian John Wilson.
00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:35.119
Oh god, I thought about him like three times because when you were talking about Carol recording everything, I was like, yo, like John Wilson be recording everything.
00:52:35.599 --> 00:52:43.599
One of the things that make John Wilson great is he just goes wherever the story goes and just follows it wherever it goes.
00:52:43.840 --> 00:52:44.159
Oh, yeah.
00:52:44.400 --> 00:52:50.480
And and it at no point does he seem to be like, no, we're talking about this, you know, and that's kind of become this thing.
00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:53.199
It's like, we'll just meander wherever this goes.
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.519
Yeah, man, in in truth seeking and filmmaking, that's just such an interesting take.
00:52:57.599 --> 00:53:04.400
And like, how crazy would it be that you you start to make an alien abduction story and come across this government conspiracy?
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:06.559
That's a great I watched that, yeah, for sure.
00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:07.920
Watch that documentary in a heartbeat.
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:10.000
Did you ever see that documentary uh Icarus?
00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:10.639
Oh, dude.
00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:13.280
The dope I've never seen that.
00:53:13.519 --> 00:53:16.400
That's a great example of following the story.
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:17.280
It won the Oscar.
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:21.440
Yep, following where the story goes, and it goes places you would never imagine.
00:53:21.519 --> 00:53:21.840
It's incredible.
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:24.639
What is it?
00:53:24.800 --> 00:53:29.760
No, but I know it's a documentary about competitive tickling where a bunch of people are like extorted for money.
00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:32.639
It goes, it's on HBO.
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:36.239
It's on HBO, it's so fucking good.
00:53:36.400 --> 00:53:38.880
Yeah, and it's like all the documentaries.
00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:41.760
I don't know because I didn't see yours, but this one.
00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:44.159
What the fuck is competitive tickling?
00:53:44.400 --> 00:53:45.840
Yeah, well, you gotta watch it.
00:53:46.079 --> 00:53:47.599
Yeah, I need to watch it as well.
00:53:47.760 --> 00:53:48.320
I want to see it.
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:49.679
So and maybe okay.
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:50.159
I don't know.
00:53:50.239 --> 00:53:56.400
We I guess we don't usually do documentaries, but maybe we do an empile on Icarus, or maybe that story is just a wild.
00:53:57.039 --> 00:53:58.239
Or maybe one on Tickled.
00:53:58.320 --> 00:54:02.000
Yeah, maybe that's the first time hearing of this.
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:02.719
It's awesome.
00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:03.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:54:03.440 --> 00:54:06.079
That's right up my alley of shit that I get into.
00:54:06.480 --> 00:54:12.880
All that to say in 2011, Bud Hopkins dies in the city in New York.
00:54:13.199 --> 00:54:14.159
Okay, hold on.
00:54:14.320 --> 00:54:15.360
I wasn't ready for that.
00:54:15.519 --> 00:54:19.119
So we're just kind of this everybody's mad at each other.
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:19.519
Right.
00:54:19.679 --> 00:54:21.440
Everybody pokes holes in the credibility.
00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:21.840
Okay.
00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:24.320
Carol betrayed everyone.
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:24.639
Yeah.
00:54:24.800 --> 00:54:26.159
And that's just where we stay.
00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:26.639
Okay.
00:54:27.039 --> 00:54:28.480
That's just kind of where we stay.
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:29.440
This went down.
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:31.360
Linda was abducted in 89.
00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:34.320
That we were talking at Move On in the early 90s.
00:54:34.719 --> 00:54:36.639
The book came out in '96.
00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:38.960
We're just kind of in that zone.
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:42.639
And so there's the community just kind of stays this way.
00:54:42.719 --> 00:54:46.559
There's this fracture with a lot of people and with Bud and his methodology.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:48.800
I think uh life goes on, you know.
00:54:48.960 --> 00:54:57.519
Maybe you could uh correct me here, but I think there was part of Carol's story too where she started doing the circuit of discrediting Bud.
00:54:57.599 --> 00:54:59.920
And like, so she was like making money.
00:55:00.239 --> 00:55:03.280
That's some vindictive ex-wife shit, if I've ever heard it.
00:55:03.599 --> 00:55:13.280
So it's almost it's the opposite side of the same coin where she's now like her business is to discredit, so she like has to go all in on making sure that's the case.
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:20.639
It's the same thing, and it's it's kind of yeah, she's basically served up on a platter to become a prominent skeptic.
00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:21.920
Yeah, it's like here you go.
00:55:22.079 --> 00:55:23.679
Do you want to be a prominent skeptic?
00:55:24.159 --> 00:55:25.119
It's just right right there.
00:55:25.679 --> 00:55:29.360
Yeah, you can make a living on being a prominent skeptic if you so choose.
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:40.239
And I mean, I don't even mean this in a bad way, I mean it more of in an understanding way as as a a creative person that Linda Linda was a singer, she was an artist.
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:51.599
And and I I think, especially when you get a little bit of a taste of it, of making a living as an artist, of like being a real artist, a singer, and and having that beat your life.
00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:57.760
I think that that desire stays with you to to make a go of it as an artist.
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:03.280
And there is a weird parallel to this kind of I don't even know if it's a parallel.
00:56:03.360 --> 00:56:08.079
Maybe the parallel is not having a real job, but to like make your living on the UFO circuit, right?
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:09.679
You know, to be in that space for me.
00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:16.079
There, like I understand that there's a connection between living as an artist, and and there's a level of fame that comes with this.
00:56:16.239 --> 00:56:20.559
Linda's being interviewed, people know who she is, she's popular, she has some fame.
00:56:21.199 --> 00:56:25.760
And so it makes sense to me that that she would pursue this and lean into it.
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:26.000
Yeah.
00:56:26.159 --> 00:56:28.800
Um, because she was an artist and she has that in her.
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:29.039
Yeah.
00:56:29.199 --> 00:56:31.679
Um, and it's so hard to make your living as an artist.
00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:32.400
Yeah, it's so.
00:56:32.880 --> 00:56:36.239
Yeah, so when something like clicks in, it's just that's what you're going for.
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:58.480
And the same for Carol as a filmmaker, you know, that's like to make your living as an artist that she didn't necessarily want to become a prominent skeptic, but becoming a being a prominent skeptic and going and giving these speeches and showing your films that you made um is so much closer to to making your living as an artist than it is working at an insurance company or something.
00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:08.719
So I kind of understand the desire, and I understand how people end up in these positions and maybe what causes them to bend the truth, fracture the truth.
00:57:09.119 --> 00:57:10.079
So Bud's dead.
00:57:10.400 --> 00:57:10.719
Okay.
00:57:12.480 --> 00:57:16.079
He left behind a legacy shadowed by this defense.
00:57:16.239 --> 00:57:29.920
Yeah, you know, like he was, he was was and still is very well known in that, but this is kind of part of part of his legacy now, whether he accidentally or intentionally generated the memories that he investigated.
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:35.039
Um in 2024, a documentary came out, the Manhattan Alien Abduction.
00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.440
That's how a lot of people know this story now.
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:44.320
Revisiting the case through Linda's account, old footage of Bud, Carol Rainey is there a lot.
00:57:44.480 --> 00:57:46.239
Bud's longtime assistant is in it.
00:57:46.400 --> 00:57:47.440
He hates Carol.
00:57:48.000 --> 00:57:48.960
That's in there.
00:57:49.119 --> 00:57:53.760
Um and Linda participated in the documentary, and I don't know what happened behind the scenes.
00:57:53.840 --> 00:58:02.480
Like she very much is was obviously a willing participant in this, but at some point before its release, her and Bud's estate sue Netflix.
00:58:02.880 --> 00:58:03.199
Shit.
00:58:03.440 --> 00:58:09.760
They're like, You misrepresented us as unfair treatment, unfair portrayal, um, and trying to restrict its release.
00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:13.440
They put it out anyways, and the lawsuit is still pending.
00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:21.840
Um, but in in in that documentary, it's listener and whoever is throwing lawsuits out, don't sue me.
00:58:22.000 --> 00:58:23.440
It's not a good documentary.
00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:32.719
It's it's it's it's more like Greg said earlier, it's more of like a true crime vibe than like an interesting documentary about extraterrestrials.
00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:34.719
Yeah, these women hate each other.
00:58:35.039 --> 00:58:43.679
Linda and Carol in this documentary, and it's essentially the two of them going back and forth, and like, man, there is some like serious vitriol between these two women.
00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:51.039
And I I don't that was why I was kind of like, maybe something with bud, because it's like there shouldn't be that much hatred between them.
00:58:51.280 --> 00:59:00.559
Yeah, um, it doesn't, it doesn't necessarily make sense unless there was like an interpersonal thing that sucks too, is because it like it was all born out of the a very interesting story.
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:02.400
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
00:59:02.559 --> 00:59:13.679
And yeah, that it's and it's like pro wrestling, like they just got so far like into the weeds with hating each other that like that's the spectacle now and not this like wild UFO abduction story.
00:59:14.159 --> 00:59:24.480
That's that's how the documentary feels is that it's not about it's not about the Manhattan Alien abduction, it's about Linda and Carol hating each other.
00:59:26.159 --> 00:59:28.559
So that's my that was my interpretation of it.
00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:38.960
Yeah, that's a bummer because I'm sure that there was like a really good budget and all of that, and to I don't know, spend all that time and money and energy and just make it kind of a soap opera.
00:59:39.039 --> 00:59:39.440
That sucks.
00:59:39.599 --> 00:59:39.760
Yeah.
00:59:39.920 --> 00:59:41.119
Well, I guess I won't be watching that.
00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:45.679
I guess too, like if if you're gonna sell like a UFO story, like what's the new angle?
00:59:45.840 --> 00:59:45.920
Right.
00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:51.519
And it's just like this comes with its own like full like drama package built into it already.
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:53.039
Yeah, cat fight.
00:59:53.199 --> 00:59:56.960
Yeah, but I mean, yeah, it's it is such an interesting story.
00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:03.119
There's so many interesting characters in it, and there might be some truth in there to to some of this.
01:00:03.280 --> 01:00:03.920
What happened?
01:00:04.000 --> 01:00:10.800
I I I think that Richard and Dan as as men in black is a really interesting theory, probably the most interesting theory about that.
01:00:11.119 --> 01:00:11.519
Absolutely weird.
01:00:11.679 --> 01:00:14.079
And also the most guys potentially true.
01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:16.239
Like it's such a weird part of the story.
01:00:16.480 --> 01:00:23.679
I was gonna say it's weird how like how little it was part of it, but like I know um again, I couldn't, I'm I might be misremembering it.
01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:38.320
Like their part was actually kind of bigger in terms of like how much influence they had over the story itself, but it was all just like minor little things that would happen, like of like how long they were actually following her around and things like that.
01:00:38.719 --> 01:00:49.440
But you're right, it it was for for from Bud's point, their their involvement and Boudros Boudros Gali witnessing this along with them, like gave credibility to this.
01:00:49.519 --> 01:00:53.360
So when he's doing his MUFON presentation, he's like, We found the guy, we found the witness.
01:00:53.519 --> 01:01:06.159
So they do loom very large in this story as witnesses, and they're a lot of what Bud is is banking on and building the story on is these eyewitness accounts, in addition to the like implant evidence.
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:11.119
So, yeah, they're a small but like very significant part of the story for sure.
01:01:11.440 --> 01:01:14.880
Ugh, I uh it's also crazy that they waited like a year.
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:22.079
Two years, two years, that's and then they send them a letter, but again, this is 1991, so sending somebody a letter is not that now.
01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:23.280
You're like a letter?
01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:45.280
Wasn't there like uh there was some like skepticism over like whether or not they were actually like the quote unquote men in black, how like the letters would like be named different, or like there was like something that went on with the letters themselves and like how far like they were spaced out, they were like coming from different people, the handwriting was like yeah off on like some of the stuff there.
01:01:45.679 --> 01:01:48.639
And I mean their their their story was a moving target as well.
01:01:48.719 --> 01:01:51.360
Initially, they're like, We're we're New York City police officers.
01:01:51.679 --> 01:02:06.079
Yeah, and then they're like actually We're security, we're doing security, which I don't I don't know if that was like blown out of proportion as well because very often police officers work security as a second job, yeah, like Moonlight or whatever.
01:02:06.239 --> 01:02:12.480
Yeah, and also like NYPD officers are assigned to security details, exactly.
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:13.119
Exactly.
01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:15.599
So I don't know if that was just like a yeah, exactly.
01:02:15.840 --> 01:02:23.599
If that was just someone misinterpreting that, um or or if their their story was changing and these letters are are different.
01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:24.480
I don't know.
01:02:24.719 --> 01:02:26.320
But they're crazy, yeah.
01:02:26.559 --> 01:02:27.519
They're so crazy, yeah.
01:02:27.679 --> 01:02:28.880
They're the craziest beat.
01:02:29.039 --> 01:02:30.559
They're the craziest part of the story.
01:02:31.360 --> 01:02:37.519
I know that's kind of like when I when when Dan kidnaps her and takes her to the beach house in Long Island.
01:02:37.679 --> 01:02:40.559
Well, I'm like, this is what makes this a movie.
01:02:40.719 --> 01:02:41.039
Yeah.
01:02:41.599 --> 01:02:48.400
For somebody to watch is like this scene right here, the other stuff is like a normal alien abduction movie.
01:02:48.639 --> 01:02:52.719
Yeah, but like this part, one of the men in black has a crush on her and kidnaps her.
01:02:52.960 --> 01:02:53.280
Yeah.
01:02:53.519 --> 01:02:55.280
It's like, what the fuck?
01:02:55.599 --> 01:02:59.280
For some reason it reminded me of the bodyguard movie.
01:02:59.440 --> 01:03:00.000
Oh, yeah.
01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:05.679
But in a like if her security detail was the killer and not her sister.
01:03:05.920 --> 01:03:06.159
Yeah.
01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:06.639
You know?
01:03:06.880 --> 01:03:07.920
Yeah, spoilers.
01:03:08.079 --> 01:03:08.719
Yeah.
01:03:09.280 --> 01:03:09.679
Shit.
01:03:10.000 --> 01:03:10.639
Whoops.
01:03:10.880 --> 01:03:11.039
Yeah.
01:03:11.440 --> 01:03:14.639
You see the bodyguard with Houston and Kevin Cosby.
01:03:14.960 --> 01:03:15.360
That's right.
01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:16.159
Great movie.
01:03:16.320 --> 01:03:27.119
So, yeah, that's the story of the Brooklyn Bridge alien abduction and a little a little glimpse into Bud Hopkins and a lot of Lyndon Napolitano.
01:03:27.679 --> 01:03:31.199
And how long of like a of a story it actually is.
01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:35.280
Like just how long of a time it took place over is kind of interesting, too.
01:03:35.360 --> 01:03:40.880
Where it wasn't just like, here's like this little story, and maybe over the course of a few months, like we get the full package.
01:03:41.039 --> 01:03:42.320
It's an ongoing yeah.
01:03:42.559 --> 01:03:44.239
Well, it's like, where does it even start?
01:03:44.320 --> 01:03:49.280
Yeah, because she contacts him in April of 89 and was like, I was abducted in 1976.
01:03:49.519 --> 01:03:50.719
Yeah, and then they got me again.
01:03:51.039 --> 01:03:52.960
It's like, does this start start in 1976?
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:54.480
Yeah, you know, yeah, I don't know.
01:03:54.639 --> 01:03:57.920
Yeah, is his art still in the Met in the Mama?
01:03:58.320 --> 01:03:59.280
I don't I don't know if it is.
01:03:59.519 --> 01:04:00.400
I want to go check him out.
01:04:00.480 --> 01:04:01.599
I want to see a circles and lines.
01:04:02.000 --> 01:04:06.079
Actually, I did see somewhere that some of his works are part of their permanent collection.
01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:08.239
So I don't know that doesn't mean they're on display.
01:04:08.559 --> 01:04:08.960
Of course.
01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:10.239
But um, yeah.
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:10.559
Yeah.
01:04:10.719 --> 01:04:16.480
One of my favorite things to do, uh, I like to do it at the Smithsonian and at the Met is to go.
01:04:16.559 --> 01:04:22.880
They have like a lot of their stuff that's not on display, they still have it like on display in a back room that you can go into.
01:04:23.039 --> 01:04:24.719
It's really all like tight together.
01:04:24.880 --> 01:04:27.679
Um, I really enjoy cruising through that back area.
01:04:27.920 --> 01:04:31.360
I've seen one of those back areas at the Met over by like the colonial houses.
01:04:31.679 --> 01:04:31.920
Exactly.
01:04:32.079 --> 01:04:33.440
Yeah, yeah, youep, yep, yep.
01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:39.440
Yeah, it's like the floor above where they have the Frank Lloyd Wright house on like a mezzanine back there you can get in there.
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:41.280
Yeah, I went back there by accident.
01:04:41.599 --> 01:04:49.519
There's like a little area like that at the Brooklyn Museum as well, where it's I forget what floor it is, but it's just like it almost feels like you're not supposed to be in there.
01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:51.599
That's why but it's all like on display.
01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:59.280
Like they they want you to go in, but it just feels like yeah, there's like a lot of drawers and like a lot of things that I'm like, am I allowed to like go through that?
01:04:59.440 --> 01:05:00.559
And like they encourage it.
01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:02.079
Yeah, but yeah, it's very cool.
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:03.280
Yeah, same.
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:10.559
I felt like at the Met that I was there by mistake, like I stumbled upon some secret room that I wasn't supposed to be in, and I was like, I'm gonna touch it.
01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:14.960
Yeah, it's like yeah, it's a regular, regular stop for me when I'm cruising through there.
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:16.559
There's also a secret bathroom back there.
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:19.119
Oh, nice, so yeah, nice, yeah.
01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:21.360
Well, this was a doozy.
01:05:21.920 --> 01:05:22.239
Shit.
01:05:22.480 --> 01:05:22.719
Yeah.
01:05:22.960 --> 01:05:23.360
Carol.
01:05:24.719 --> 01:05:25.360
Carol, man.
01:05:25.440 --> 01:05:25.599
Yeah.
01:05:25.840 --> 01:05:26.239
Dang.
01:05:26.559 --> 01:05:26.960
Yeah.
01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:30.800
Bud, Carol, Linda, scissors.
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:32.320
Men in black.
01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:34.000
Experiments.
01:05:34.320 --> 01:05:35.119
Stalkers.
01:05:35.280 --> 01:05:37.199
So I mean little tiny aliens.
01:05:37.440 --> 01:05:38.159
It kind of had it all.
01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:38.880
It did.
01:05:39.199 --> 01:05:41.840
If you were sex experimented on.
01:05:42.079 --> 01:05:43.440
Oh, experimented.
01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:44.400
Give us the rule.
01:05:44.800 --> 01:05:45.599
It's a strange exchange.
01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:47.119
If you've ever scissored a gray.
01:05:47.360 --> 01:05:50.800
929-445-3705.
01:05:51.440 --> 01:05:52.719
But you know, keep it.
01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:54.400
I mean, I don't know.
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:56.000
Greg listens to him before I do.
01:05:56.320 --> 01:05:59.039
I was gonna say keep it PG 13, but Greg probably wants.
01:05:59.199 --> 01:05:59.840
Greg wants it all.
01:05:59.920 --> 01:06:00.079
Nah.
01:06:01.360 --> 01:06:03.039
If you have a wild story, we want to hear it.
01:06:03.360 --> 01:06:04.079
Give us the details.
01:06:04.239 --> 01:06:04.960
Just let us know.
01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:05.920
Just tell us the truth.
01:06:06.079 --> 01:06:06.880
It's experiments.
01:06:07.119 --> 01:06:07.920
It's experiments.
01:06:08.320 --> 01:06:09.039
Specifically.
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.920
Yeah.
01:06:10.239 --> 01:06:11.920
We won't we we need to know.
01:06:12.079 --> 01:06:13.039
Call us immediately.
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:18.159
Or I mean, yeah, if you have got a hypnotic regression story, that's true.
01:06:18.400 --> 01:06:18.719
Yeah.
01:06:18.880 --> 01:06:20.559
If you if you know Carol.
01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:20.880
Yeah.
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:24.000
If you know, if you know if Bud used a pendulum on his people.
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:26.400
Yeah, yeah or a um or a metronome.
01:06:26.559 --> 01:06:26.719
Yeah.
01:06:26.880 --> 01:06:27.280
Or whatever.
01:06:28.559 --> 01:06:28.800
Sure.
01:06:28.960 --> 01:06:29.280
Whatever.
01:06:29.360 --> 01:06:29.519
Yeah.
01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:30.159
Charles.
01:06:32.320 --> 01:06:33.199
Thanks for listening, everybody.
01:06:33.519 --> 01:06:33.760
Goodbye.