Do Nothing, Get Bored, Be Brilliant

WEBVTT
00:00:03.406 --> 00:00:07.011
That put a lot of perspective into like about like, hard choices and easy life.
00:00:07.011 --> 00:00:12.268
How you're saying yes to things means that you're saying no to others.
00:00:12.268 --> 00:00:23.882
It may be value time spent, not like overworking rather than spending more time with with family and, you know, making sure that I'm setting them up for success.
00:00:30.271 --> 00:00:38.619
Hello and welcome to Connect With Purpose, where we uncover the journeys of remarkable people who have turned their passions into a purpose-driven life.
00:00:38.619 --> 00:00:41.328
I'm your host, Nicole Gottselig.
00:00:41.328 --> 00:00:51.573
Whether you're on your own quest for meaning or simply curious how others have navigated their paths, this show is here to inspire and guide you along the way.
00:00:51.573 --> 00:01:00.942
I'm so excited about today's guest, Ramli John, and if you're in the SaaS world, you've probably come across his name.
00:01:00.942 --> 00:01:07.602
He's built a personal brand with 19,000 LinkedIn followers, and he's now the founder of Delight Path.
00:01:08.564 --> 00:01:16.106
Ramli has spent years helping companies like AppCues and GoDaddy turn users into lifelong customers through onboarding strategies.
00:01:16.106 --> 00:01:24.243
He's also the best-selling author of product-led onboarding, with more than 35,000 copies sold worldwide.
00:01:24.243 --> 00:01:32.870
But what truly stands out is how he aligns his work with his purpose, which is to leave the world a better place for his son.
00:01:32.870 --> 00:01:42.996
When we first met at the Hot Sauce Conference in New York City last year, I saw firsthand how dedicated he is to building real and meaningful connections.
00:01:42.996 --> 00:01:50.707
In today's episode, we'll explore not just his career success, but how he's aligned his work with his deeper mission.
00:01:50.707 --> 00:02:00.102
From making tough choices to the power of taking breaks for creativity, Ramli's journey is about creating a positive impact in both tech and life.
00:02:00.102 --> 00:02:06.233
You're going to walk away from this episode feeling really inspired, so don't go anywhere.
00:02:06.233 --> 00:02:09.387
Let's even start there.
00:02:09.387 --> 00:02:12.819
How did it take, how long did it take you, to get 18 000 followers on linkedin?
00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:18.751
that's really impressive oh man, yeah, that took years, years it's.
00:02:18.751 --> 00:02:22.425
It's accelerated in the last three years since I wrote a book.
00:02:22.425 --> 00:02:24.611
Um a've been more active on LinkedIn.
00:02:24.611 --> 00:02:32.707
I think that's the key is like consistently creating content for that and also replying to other folks.
00:02:32.707 --> 00:02:45.960
I think that's the other piece that people don't realize is like replying to other people actually helps as well, yeah, those comments are really where the gold is and that's actually a great way of connection.
00:02:46.241 --> 00:02:50.031
So you are really great at connecting with other people.
00:02:50.031 --> 00:02:59.967
Do you have like sort of this innate sort of feeling that you want to connect with people Because it always feels really genuine when you do it?
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.372
I've always had a sense that connecting and, like you know, building relationship with people is like the, the path to success.
00:03:12.372 --> 00:03:16.104
You know, like there's people who are more you can sense right away they're more transactional.
00:03:16.104 --> 00:03:19.418
We're like, oh, uh, what do you do, uh, and what do I need?
00:03:19.418 --> 00:03:32.335
I remember being at a conference at dc, uhc, where I spoke at and somebody was just like oh, you said that you're connected with First Round, I'm a mentor there for the Fast Track program, first Round VC.
00:03:32.335 --> 00:03:36.864
It's like, oh, can you introduce me to one of the VCs?
00:03:36.864 --> 00:03:39.752
It's like I'm more of a mentor there for the Fast Track program.
00:03:39.752 --> 00:03:46.703
And then I remember she didn't even say goodbye, she just walked away, which is like whoa, and that's.
00:03:46.703 --> 00:03:51.008
There are people who are, of course, they're there to get what they need.
00:03:51.819 --> 00:04:05.091
And then I've realized that playing the long game, or like building that long-term relationship, is such a key part, like I wouldn't be where I'm at if I didn't have those certain relationships.
00:04:05.091 --> 00:04:10.472
Like the current job I had, in the previous job I had, I was friends with those those folks.
00:04:10.472 --> 00:04:15.486
First, before, um, the topic of working together came up, like with west bush.
00:04:15.486 --> 00:04:19.139
Uh, you know, we were connected for five, six years.
00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:22.404
Uh, we went both to the same university.
00:04:22.404 --> 00:04:28.134
He reached out out to me, we chatted, and then, with my current boss, eric Keating, we were connected for like five years.
00:04:28.134 --> 00:04:31.600
So I think building the long-term relationship has been super important.
00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:41.317
So I do the same like knowing that there might not be an immediate return in this in this moment, but you know, the the friendship will definitely, uh, help.
00:04:41.497 --> 00:04:44.045
We'll help each other and it's really about relationship building.
00:04:44.045 --> 00:04:46.189
You know, I've been in Germany now for six years.
00:04:46.189 --> 00:04:54.331
But you know, I'm Canadian and sometimes Germans will say to me you know, they don't say someone is their friend until a year of knowing them.
00:04:54.331 --> 00:04:59.668
And as a Canadian who loves everybody and who talks to everyone, I always found that really kind of scary at first.
00:04:59.668 --> 00:05:05.682
But they really play the long game here and it's sort of like once you're in, you're in.
00:05:05.682 --> 00:05:12.487
And it's not about it feeling exclusive, it's more like, yeah, it's that they want to take the time to build those relationships.
00:05:12.487 --> 00:05:15.689
And you really see that in your career trajectory.
00:05:15.689 --> 00:05:29.519
I mean, you know you started out I don't know if this was your first marketing role, but in Pepsi, you know way back in the day and now you are essentially your own brand right.
00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:35.994
So you started out really as an employee and now you're really like a hustler, like you're.
00:05:35.994 --> 00:05:43.906
Maybe you don't consider yourself a hustler because of course you still do have a regular job as well, but you have your hands in.
00:05:43.946 --> 00:05:46.540
So many other, other different things, you know?
00:05:46.540 --> 00:05:47.562
Um.
00:05:47.562 --> 00:05:52.992
So what drove you to even get into marketing, like, how did that even happen?
00:05:53.392 --> 00:05:56.223
yeah, I, we're backstory.
00:05:56.223 --> 00:05:59.769
At pepsico I was a marketing analyst.
00:05:59.769 --> 00:06:09.307
I was actually coding um, doing data for pepsico with the marketing team, so I was getting into like javascript and cobalt and things like that.
00:06:09.307 --> 00:06:15.925
So I actually studied math, computer science in my career and I wanted to change.
00:06:15.925 --> 00:06:20.452
So I I quit and then did a business degree and did my own startup.
00:06:21.093 --> 00:06:32.048
And the realization that you can build the coolest product, but if you don't know how to reach your customers or your users, then what's the point?
00:06:32.048 --> 00:06:41.009
And I realized, like, if my my long-term goal always has been to be my own boss, okay, that's a skill that I need to hone.
00:06:41.009 --> 00:07:01.730
So I got into blogging and content and you know, when content marketing was a buzzword early in the days with Inbound that HubSpot was doing, I was blogging around lean startup and that got me invited to conferences to talk about lean startup and I ended up becoming a marketing consultant.
00:07:01.730 --> 00:07:05.108
So that's how I almost did a.
00:07:05.108 --> 00:07:06.512
What is that called?
00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:09.288
A zigzag, not a straight path in my career.
00:07:09.288 --> 00:07:12.750
You know, when I was a kid, I was like, oh, careers are linear.
00:07:12.750 --> 00:07:17.872
You start off as an associate, then a manager, then a director, then a VP.
00:07:17.872 --> 00:07:22.591
And I was like, oh, wow, okay, this is not the reality.
00:07:22.591 --> 00:07:27.730
There was a whole misconception around that, so that's kind of a zigzag way.
00:07:27.730 --> 00:07:35.826
That I ended up in marketing is through me wanting and desiring to learn skills so that I can eventually become my own boss.
00:07:36.267 --> 00:07:40.548
Oh, I love that Entrepreneur to the max.
00:07:40.548 --> 00:07:47.322
Would you say that that is one of your life mission, your soul mission, your soul mission, your, your purpose in life?
00:07:47.322 --> 00:07:50.750
Is one of them to to be free to be your own boss.
00:07:50.750 --> 00:07:51.452
Is it?
00:07:51.452 --> 00:07:52.483
Is it part of that?
00:07:52.863 --> 00:07:54.146
It's definitely a life goal.
00:07:54.146 --> 00:08:01.048
I've I've always wanted to have a sense of, of control of my time.
00:08:01.048 --> 00:08:07.821
So, like what I'm working on, have the freedom to of my time.
00:08:07.821 --> 00:08:11.536
So, like what I'm working on, have the freedom to to choose who or what I work with, and that's definitely something that I'm getting closer and closer towards.
00:08:11.536 --> 00:08:13.663
I'm super excited to do that.
00:08:13.663 --> 00:08:18.942
Uh, you know, I've come to realize that, especially, you know, you're based out of germany.
00:08:19.062 --> 00:08:21.427
In in america, I work with a lot of american colleagues.
00:08:21.427 --> 00:08:23.471
It's, it's just so.
00:08:23.471 --> 00:08:24.790
They're so work centric.
00:08:24.973 --> 00:08:34.527
There was a comment I remember recently somebody said to me where in in europe, when you ask and correct me if I'm wrong, because you've been there longer, if you, if you ask somebody, what do you do?
00:08:34.527 --> 00:08:40.927
They in america, they, they tell you what your job is oh, I'm a designer, I'm a marketer.
00:08:40.927 --> 00:08:45.267
In europe, it's like no, they, that's not the first thing they necessarily say.
00:08:45.267 --> 00:08:53.852
They're like oh, they say their hobby, they say what they're known for or what they're good at versus what they do.
00:08:53.852 --> 00:09:28.052
And that's something that I've come to realize is that I don't want to be defined by my career per se like the longest, you know, long term, my impact here in the world is how I, uh, you know, pass on and impact uh others uh through through my work and, um, you know, that's definitely something that I've been thinking a lot more lately, as I have you know you mentioned earlier before recorded I have a two-year-old kid and that gave me a lot more perspective as to like what I want to pass on to the next generation.
00:09:29.596 --> 00:09:36.610
I really felt your words and it took me back to being in the North American system for so long.
00:09:36.610 --> 00:09:57.121
And now I'm not and it took me probably three years to come down off of it because I was still always working and working on weekends and working nights and always had like three things on the go and, you know, taking vacations like way last minute and it took me a long time to get out of that that thing.
00:09:57.121 --> 00:10:07.517
And even now when I talk about, when people ask me what I do, if I even talk about my job, some people are like oh, that's boring, or like nobody wants to hear it, like people aren't that interested.
00:10:07.517 --> 00:10:10.264
People aren't that interested, they're more like hey, like what are you passionate about?
00:10:10.264 --> 00:10:11.126
What do you love to do?
00:10:11.347 --> 00:10:23.032
And it's very different, Right, and I'll find myself sometimes when I'm meeting new people, it's like I'm a writer, I'm a podcast host, I'm a and really identifying with those, those job titles, Right.
00:10:23.032 --> 00:10:31.192
So it's been like a stripping down for me too, you know, but which brings me to this sort of this, this life purpose you have.
00:10:31.192 --> 00:10:37.033
You know, you have a son now, you have this career and sort of this brand that you've been building.
00:10:37.033 --> 00:10:39.964
How do you merge the two?
00:10:39.964 --> 00:10:41.609
First of all, let's start with the first part.
00:10:41.609 --> 00:10:47.652
Do you I do have like a mission statement or a life purpose that you would like to share with us?
00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:52.542
Yeah, it's something that I really have been thinking a lot more lately.
00:10:52.542 --> 00:11:08.431
Like I mentioned, I have a kid turning two years old next week, which is the middle of July, and something that a YouTuber which is ironic, an American YouTuber who was also in the system.
00:11:08.431 --> 00:11:15.815
He was working at Apple and NASA and he was being recruited to go to Facebook and he quit to become a science YouTuber.
00:11:15.815 --> 00:11:29.147
He gave a commencement speech once and he was talking about his life purpose and it really arrested him because he has a kid as well who unfortunately yeah, he's on the spectrum, he's on other.
00:11:29.167 --> 00:11:43.288
His kid is on the spectrum and he's been really more reflective and he said that one of the things that he wants to do in the world is leave the world better than when you were in it, and to me, that's like such a good.
00:11:43.288 --> 00:12:15.006
When he just told his story about his kid and like he's like struggling to learn and why he started YouTube like man, that just like resonated with me deeply, like my work and my time here on earth, like how, when I leave here which is like kind of dark, but like when I leave here, how can I leave it in a better place than it was before and that's something that I've been thinking like what, what does that look like, what does that feel like, what does that sound and smell like?
00:12:15.006 --> 00:12:24.272
And and I'm still figuring it out that is like definitely, like my longer term, like mission would be like okay, I have this kid.
00:12:24.272 --> 00:12:28.525
How do I make it better for him when he, when, when I'm, you know, when he's grown up?
00:12:29.467 --> 00:12:41.725
wow, I really, really um felt that as you you said that and um, it it really resonated with me too, you know, and because, yeah, I don't think it's dark where you're going.
00:12:41.725 --> 00:12:45.014
We, we all will leave the earth at some point.
00:12:45.014 --> 00:13:09.448
Right, and you know, we only have so many days in the air not to be grim or anything, cause we, the glass is half full, you know, and we, we do have time here and it's really, you know, how do we want to leave it and how do you, and how do you take this wanting to leave the world a better place for your son, and how do you bridge that in your, in your day to day, because it all, it all works together.
00:13:09.448 --> 00:13:16.822
You know, you're not just going to work and it's like, okay, I'm not going to do anything in my purpose, because it's completely separate from that, and you know.
00:13:16.822 --> 00:13:27.669
So, with that in mind, how do you choose speaking engagements or how you interact with new clients and jobs and stuff like that with this purpose?
00:13:27.860 --> 00:13:33.513
Yeah, I think that's something that you know that I've been thinking as well, more about.
00:13:33.513 --> 00:13:40.072
I think the way that I think about it is like can I add and really make an impact here?
00:13:40.072 --> 00:13:40.734
Can I help?
00:13:40.734 --> 00:13:44.049
Can I, you know, leave when I come in?
00:13:44.049 --> 00:13:46.447
When I leave, is it better than what it was?
00:13:47.221 --> 00:14:07.865
And if the answer is no, which actually just happened a few weeks ago a couple weeks ago where I was having a conversation with somebody who wanted to chat with me about fixing their onboarding, and then it was like, oh, we went through the conversation and then I realized that their problem was not onboarding, it was actually positioning and messaging.
00:14:08.466 --> 00:14:13.951
And I was like I just straight up, like it sounds like you already have a plan for onboarding and you just want to tell your story better.
00:14:13.951 --> 00:14:18.466
I'm not the right person, but let me introduce you to somebody else.
00:14:18.466 --> 00:14:35.806
And I think that that confidence not necessarily confidence, but like knowing that, hey, when you come in here, sure you can do the work, but can you, can I be, am I the best person to leave this lead, this, and leave it better than what it was the answer was no.
00:14:35.806 --> 00:14:44.833
So I ended up introducing him to a colleague of mine who does product marketing advising, and so that's that's how I I think about um.
00:14:44.833 --> 00:14:53.413
You know who I, who I choose to work with, as well as like potentially where I could speak, or can I, can I add value here?
00:14:53.413 --> 00:14:58.148
If not, then might not be the best opportunity for both of us.
00:14:58.249 --> 00:15:10.712
You know it's it's uh for myself and for the other person you know that takes a lot of strength, it takes belief in yourself and it takes um sort of this inner knowing that everything's going to be okay.
00:15:10.712 --> 00:15:15.368
Especially, you know if sometimes pay can be really good.
00:15:15.368 --> 00:15:16.571
You have a family.
00:15:16.571 --> 00:15:21.248
I mean, life is not cheap these days, right, um?
00:15:21.248 --> 00:15:23.676
And you know it can be easy to be like hey, yeah, check like this, but then if it doesn't align to what?
00:15:23.676 --> 00:15:34.809
Like hey, yeah, check like this, but then if it doesn't align to what you're doing, um, is that going to just take energy from you down the road and is it just kind of, you know, take away time from your son or whatever?
00:15:34.809 --> 00:15:35.871
You know as well.
00:15:35.932 --> 00:15:38.043
So yeah, that's really great.
00:15:38.043 --> 00:15:55.529
Yeah, it's something that I've realized as well around you know, you mentioned the word time time away from the sun and I forgot who I got this from I think it was a mentor previously where, like, every time I say yes to something, I'm saying no to to something else.
00:15:55.529 --> 00:16:05.470
Like if I say yes to my boss, like oh, I'll, yes, I'll work later tonight to do this that means I'm saying no to my spending more time with my son and giving a little bath that night.
00:16:05.470 --> 00:16:08.590
So that is something that I've been thinking a lot about.
00:16:08.590 --> 00:16:14.150
I think that's a little bit more perspective as well with that.
00:16:14.371 --> 00:16:21.727
What you said yeah, and it's those choices right, because we only have so many hours really in the day.
00:16:21.727 --> 00:16:23.552
You know so really beautiful.
00:16:23.552 --> 00:16:25.989
I want to get to actually your role as an day.
00:16:25.989 --> 00:16:26.614
You know so really beautiful.
00:16:26.614 --> 00:16:29.163
Um, I want to get to actually your your role as an author.
00:16:29.163 --> 00:16:32.609
You know so many people have ideas.
00:16:32.609 --> 00:16:35.855
Um, many people want to write a book.
00:16:35.855 --> 00:16:40.351
Some people go oh, I can't write a book because everyone's written a book Nobody reads anymore.
00:16:40.351 --> 00:16:44.187
There's already books to be written or there's already enough books in the world.
00:16:44.187 --> 00:16:50.981
How did you break through?
00:16:50.981 --> 00:16:52.285
First of all, did you have any of those doubts before you ever?
00:16:52.306 --> 00:16:53.328
wrote product led marketing 100%.
00:16:53.328 --> 00:16:56.623
I think it's part of the process, something I don't tell people.
00:16:56.623 --> 00:16:58.607
I have never told this on a podcast.
00:16:58.607 --> 00:17:08.300
I actually tried writing a previous book on my own, lee, I forgot what it's called lean marketing or lean growth, something like that.
00:17:08.300 --> 00:17:15.987
That was during my phase where I was like really into lean startup and eric reese just wrote his book and I was like, oh, how could I apply this into marketing?
00:17:15.987 --> 00:17:17.691
Uh, it was.
00:17:17.691 --> 00:17:20.367
It was such a struggle I think I was like, oh, I gave up.
00:17:20.367 --> 00:17:22.015
So what changed differently?
00:17:22.015 --> 00:17:26.987
Here was like somebody like believed in me first and somebody was guiding me through it.
00:17:26.987 --> 00:17:27.528
Who's done it?
00:17:27.528 --> 00:17:30.164
Like Wes was Bush who wrote product like growth.
00:17:30.164 --> 00:17:35.488
Like he wrote it and he was like, okay, you know, just gotta, just gotta, shut down.
00:17:35.488 --> 00:17:37.517
Do you believe in this?
00:17:37.517 --> 00:17:44.484
We were working with other folks other companies are not improving the onboarding and we had a process we wanted.
00:17:44.484 --> 00:17:47.246
I wanted to write it down, I wanted to be known for that.
00:17:47.246 --> 00:17:51.796
So I ended up writing it, and that was the difference between the two.
00:17:51.855 --> 00:17:57.952
Experience was having somebody in my corner who can be like, yeah, you got it, you can write this.
00:17:57.952 --> 00:18:00.866
You know you're the right person to write this?
00:18:00.866 --> 00:18:07.461
I keep going, rather than just like having this, this inner doubt.
00:18:07.461 --> 00:18:08.163
Like who are you to write this?
00:18:08.163 --> 00:18:09.708
I keep going, rather than just like having this, this inner doubt.
00:18:09.708 --> 00:18:10.931
Like who are you to write this book?
00:18:10.931 --> 00:18:11.353
Why would you write?
00:18:11.353 --> 00:18:11.733
Like why you?
00:18:11.733 --> 00:18:11.874
And?
00:18:11.874 --> 00:18:13.157
And like who nobody would?
00:18:13.157 --> 00:18:14.421
Nobody's gonna read this?
00:18:14.421 --> 00:18:15.423
Like things like that.
00:18:15.423 --> 00:18:28.546
That is in in the back of my mind when I was trying to write the first one do you ever just think about all the connections in your life and how they've shaped you Really?
00:18:28.686 --> 00:18:31.836
where we put our energy, the people we choose to keep around?
00:18:32.337 --> 00:18:54.023
These all have a way of quietly shaping our future, and often in ways we can't predict, and with so many interactions on any given day, it can all feel very transactional, but when it comes to building those genuine long-term relationships, that's what really helps us to achieve our goals and connect us to our true nature.
00:18:55.286 --> 00:19:07.391
In the next segment of our episode, Ramli goes deeper into his connection with Wes Bush, a friendship that ended up fueling the next chapter of his career, with Wes becoming a mentor who pushed him to write his best-selling book.
00:19:07.391 --> 00:19:19.210
And to loosely paraphrase one of my favorite passages from Alan Watts, we really never know how our circumstances are going to change and that our needs for different people changes.
00:19:19.210 --> 00:19:30.836
So often it's just that one person showing up with the right background and skills and nature that can just help you change the trajectory of your life.
00:19:30.836 --> 00:19:38.834
So stick around, because we're about to dive into how Ramli and Wes transformed a casual friendship into a business partnership that changed everything.
00:19:38.834 --> 00:19:43.787
Tell me a bit more about Wes.
00:19:43.787 --> 00:19:51.448
How did you like, how did you meet him and is he somebody that's really been a like a mentor in your life?
00:19:52.791 --> 00:19:54.496
yeah, yeah, we.
00:19:54.496 --> 00:20:01.832
We both studied the same university different years and he was trying to do something an agency and he reached out.
00:20:01.832 --> 00:20:03.162
This was like eight years ago.
00:20:03.162 --> 00:20:05.248
We just stayed in touch.
00:20:05.248 --> 00:20:30.967
I think that was uh, that's something that a value, like you don't know who in your current context will end up becoming, you know, a business partner or a partner in general in life, and that that that was how we connected was through serendipity, and we connected through LinkedIn, and then we had a conversation on a call and we just stayed in touch throughout, updating each other on what we're doing.
00:20:30.967 --> 00:20:59.835
Now he doesn't live that far from me actually, it's like 45 minutes away and we typically meet up quite a bit like my, my wife knows his partner, his, his girlfriend, and we've gone on hikes together and it's just really, you know, it was too serendipity, really like I don't know how else to explain it like it's yeah do you believe in like fate and destiny and yeah, that's a good question.
00:20:59.915 --> 00:21:01.861
I uh, it's something that I've.
00:21:01.861 --> 00:21:07.162
I listened to this podcast quite a bit, how I built this by Guy Ross.
00:21:07.162 --> 00:21:09.304
I'm sure a lot of people have heard it.
00:21:09.304 --> 00:21:15.008
His last question usually is like how much of your success is luck versus like?
00:21:15.008 --> 00:21:17.825
And yes, I do.
00:21:17.825 --> 00:21:31.352
There is certain things that you can't, that I can't attribute to my hard work or my innate ability, or my innate ability or my charisma or skills.
00:21:31.352 --> 00:21:48.573
There are certain things in life that people come to your life at the right moment to give you the right encouragement or right words, and so I think that's and you never know who, you never know who you are.
00:21:48.573 --> 00:21:52.076
You being, that's you for somebody else.
00:21:52.076 --> 00:21:55.106
At that moment you didn't realize, I didn't even realize it.
00:21:55.106 --> 00:21:57.894
So I think that's super critical.
00:21:58.780 --> 00:22:06.849
You know, and even just the writing a book, and then you have somebody that you meet at the right time who says you can do it and it's all it all connects right Like writing a book.
00:22:06.849 --> 00:22:09.497
And then you have somebody that you meet at the right time who says you can do it and it's all it all connects right.
00:22:09.497 --> 00:22:10.479
It's like writing a book, though is.
00:22:10.479 --> 00:22:18.065
I mean, it's just looks like a big, like like mountain in front of you, right, and it's really a book is written one word at a time.
00:22:18.065 --> 00:22:28.925
How did you just be like, oh, even when it's like so hard to write and you're sitting in front of a computer and frozen, what kept you going?
00:22:28.925 --> 00:22:30.268
What kept you motivated?
00:22:30.607 --> 00:22:30.909
Yeah.
00:22:32.351 --> 00:22:34.740
I do recall this one chapter in the book.
00:22:34.740 --> 00:23:00.630
It was chapter nine in the book of the product line onboarding, where I just, like, was smacking my head on the table Because, like I couldn't figure out how to phrase it or how to structure it or how to say it without sounding in my head I call it without sounding idiotic, I think the rest of the chapters, because I had the outline, they just came out easily.
00:23:00.630 --> 00:23:10.232
The first draft, the chapter nine, was the biggest struggle and I think it goes back to what we've been talking about, like having somebody in your corner.
00:23:10.232 --> 00:23:12.141
There was definitely west.
00:23:12.141 --> 00:23:13.463
My wife was also supportive.
00:23:13.463 --> 00:23:19.444
He saw, she saw me like, just like banging my head on the table, just like, how do we phrase this?
00:23:20.527 --> 00:23:23.421
The other thing that's been helpful as well it's just taking a break.
00:23:23.421 --> 00:23:31.943
I think that's an important element of success that people don't talk enough about On LinkedIn and Instagram and Twitter.
00:23:31.943 --> 00:23:37.114
They're like, oh, just keep going and hustle and keep pushing through.
00:23:37.114 --> 00:23:48.540
But especially for creative work, taking a break and walking away and just coming back to it um allows your brain to do the work that it needs to do.
00:23:48.540 --> 00:23:53.510
I got that phrase from a copywriter named eddie schlainer.
00:23:53.510 --> 00:24:06.164
He said that just you know, when you take a break, you you let your brain do the work because, like, sometimes your brain is smart, right, like your, like your brain, you breathe naturally, you don't have to think about it.
00:24:06.164 --> 00:24:14.589
You do a lot of stuff like walking, without thinking about it, but, like when you take a break, you let your brain connect the dots.
00:24:16.060 --> 00:24:17.885
And after a while it just made sense.
00:24:17.885 --> 00:24:25.820
I think that's the just things connected and it's like okay, I got it, let's put it down on paper.
00:24:25.840 --> 00:25:06.086
So I think that's that's something that's been helpful, just like just walk away and go actually go for a walk outside and, and you know, breathe fresh air, or, if it's winter, go out in the cold and do something I just wrote that down and I'm going to say it again because I want this to really come out on the podcast, because I think that is one of the most brilliant and I mean it's so easy but yet it's so hard for us to do when we're in the midst of achievement and trying to reach a goal and trying to get something done and get it checked off our list.
00:25:06.086 --> 00:25:13.429
You know, it's when you take a break, you allow your brain to work and that's when everything comes together right.
00:25:13.429 --> 00:25:27.189
Sometimes they say the best thing in life is I mean, for creative people is to really do nothing and to really get bored and to allow yourself to get bored and do nothing, which is so hard to do.
00:25:27.189 --> 00:25:30.425
Always on our phones, we're always clicking here, clicking there, clicking there.
00:25:31.607 --> 00:25:35.556
How do you work in that boredom time, that rest time?
00:25:35.556 --> 00:25:42.037
As a father husband, you know doing everything you do.
00:25:42.037 --> 00:25:44.182
How do you carve that on your day?
00:25:44.182 --> 00:25:52.406
For people who are listening right now, who are having so much on the go like you, what advice would you give for giving yourself that time away?
00:25:52.848 --> 00:25:56.538
Yeah, I think giving a, I mean that's a perfect thing.
00:25:56.538 --> 00:26:00.028
You know, there's a few things that have been helpful.
00:26:00.028 --> 00:26:03.715
Like I have a really great partner who you know we work together.
00:26:03.715 --> 00:26:06.308
Um, you know, we, we support each other.
00:26:06.308 --> 00:26:11.566
And like I, I have my, you know, we each take care of zane, our two-year-old, together.
00:26:12.568 --> 00:26:20.768
The other thing is like, um, I think just carving in something that I do with my calendar is like actually block off.
00:26:20.768 --> 00:26:33.659
This is baby time, this is, like you know, gym time and lunch time, because, like, if it's not on your calendar, like your team will find, like find ways to sneak it in.
00:26:33.659 --> 00:26:44.094
And I, I mean, that's the great thing about having great uh colleagues is that they, they're all you know, they're, they're respectful of that.
00:26:44.094 --> 00:26:58.893
If you block it off and say this is, you know, I have a kid's appointment, or this is, you know uh time for me to, uh, you know, take care of on my kid in the morning so that I can, you know, get started in the morning, uh, and then they're, they've been respectful of that.
00:26:58.893 --> 00:27:03.984
So it's like blocking off those time in my calendar has been super, super helpful as well.
00:27:04.727 --> 00:27:06.049
I do that for a bunch of things.
00:27:06.049 --> 00:27:07.292
I forgot where I learned this from.
00:27:07.292 --> 00:27:15.438
Like, I have like days like like, let's say, monday, I block that whole monday off, usually for you know, creative work.
00:27:15.438 --> 00:27:17.247
And then thursday is writing work.
00:27:17.247 --> 00:27:53.239
So like, uh, I would block it off and say in Google Calendar, this is focus time and it says creative writing, sprint or work, and then in quotation I put if it's urgent, feel free to book, but ask me first, so that people have been very respectful of that as well, so that I can really have days where I don't have any meetings, which is super helpful for you know, time for you to do the creative work or writing or creating or thinking about future work that you want to do.
00:27:54.867 --> 00:28:04.036
So, okay, yeah, so, making it really a non negotiable and actually getting it set as just another part of your day, you, so that's, that's great advice.
00:28:04.036 --> 00:28:09.513
Yeah, um, I, I started to do that as well too.
00:28:09.513 --> 00:28:19.698
Um, I've taken a long break since my last job from from hot jar and, uh, really had to get bored again myself to get to the the creative back.
00:28:19.698 --> 00:28:27.917
So, and one of the things so thank you for saying that was putting those times in my calendar as well, for you know, here, here, here, so it was really good.
00:28:27.917 --> 00:28:44.417
Coming back to Wes, I read in in one of your I think it was your 2023 roundup Um, one of his, his tips to you, or some of his advice to you hard choices, easy life, easy choices, hard life.
00:28:44.417 --> 00:28:49.893
So can you share some hard choices that maybe stand out to you in?
00:28:49.893 --> 00:28:58.917
You can do whatever you want career, personal, whatever that have helped you grow and still keep you connected to your purpose and values.
00:29:15.990 --> 00:29:32.797
Yeah, I think when I wrote that I was thinking more about the future is having a discussion with my wife about like, hey, is it, is it time for me to leave my full-time work to do my my solo consulting full-time, and I think that's that's.
00:29:32.797 --> 00:29:35.508
That's when the advice from wes came about.
00:29:35.508 --> 00:29:41.646
We're like you know, sometimes you got to make the hard choices now to have an easier life in the future.
00:29:41.646 --> 00:29:47.365
Uh, and that's that's where you know I'm figuring out the timing for that.
00:29:47.365 --> 00:29:53.259
I think that's you know when it's that right time to to do that specifically as well.
00:29:53.259 --> 00:29:56.832
Looking back, what a hard choice that I had done.
00:29:56.832 --> 00:30:00.778
That you know ended up becoming um helpful for me.
00:30:01.085 --> 00:30:04.755
I mentioned earlier around, uh, starting my own thing.
00:30:04.755 --> 00:30:05.517
That was really tough.
00:30:05.517 --> 00:30:07.608
Like starting off, I had a co-founder.
00:30:07.608 --> 00:30:09.393
We did a startup um.
00:30:09.393 --> 00:30:18.901
First it was you're gonna laugh at this we were like gonna create uh for for people who have passed away.
00:30:18.901 --> 00:30:23.953
We noticed that people create this memorial right, memorial pages for them.
00:30:23.953 --> 00:30:30.218
We were gonna like, if you look at that current, the whole experience currently is very feel, it feels like it was.
00:30:30.218 --> 00:30:32.530
It's like 90s experience.
00:30:32.530 --> 00:30:39.328
So we wanted to like make that more modernized and we had a discussion and like this is like really depressing.
00:30:39.328 --> 00:30:40.171
We should pivot.
00:30:40.171 --> 00:30:49.376
And we pivoted from death and we chose babies because we found that parents love scrapbooking their kids life.
00:30:49.376 --> 00:30:50.640
So we created this.
00:30:50.740 --> 00:30:58.984
We were both developers, we developed it, we coded it, and then we were both single guys, not married, and like what are we doing?
00:30:58.984 --> 00:31:04.000
Why are we like creating a product for people who are not us?
00:31:04.000 --> 00:31:08.550
Like this doesn't resonate with us and that just just killed.
00:31:08.550 --> 00:31:12.378
You know, at that moment it was like a hard, like why did we do this?
00:31:12.378 --> 00:31:18.096
This is hard, this we're, we're not, we're not, we're, we're not smart for getting with this.
00:31:18.096 --> 00:31:34.294
But like, looking back, that if I didn't do that, I wouldn wouldn't be where I am, I wouldn't have pursued marketing, I wouldn't have met Wes and I wouldn't have met this and it would have, you know, I wouldn't have realized that I had a missing skill set that would eventually set me up for the future.
00:31:34.294 --> 00:31:45.326
So that would be an example in the past where you know it was a hard choice at the moment and then I feel like it's really helped shape my trajectory and career.
00:31:46.048 --> 00:31:46.329
I don't know.
00:31:46.329 --> 00:31:54.661
You tell me that story and I see a problem solver and I see somebody who'd be perfect in marketing, perfect, going hey, this is what people need.
00:31:54.661 --> 00:31:56.506
I see what's in the market it sucks.
00:31:56.506 --> 00:31:59.888
And this is how we can go in and and and fix it for you, right?
00:31:59.888 --> 00:32:02.251
So I think it's actually we can go in and and um and fix it for you, right?
00:32:02.251 --> 00:32:11.121
So I think it's actually, like you say, probably like a step stepping stone to to where you are now, right, it's what is it?
00:32:11.121 --> 00:32:20.087
They say you can only um see who you are now.
00:32:20.087 --> 00:32:22.737
Looking back, like you, you have to connect the dots to see where it came from.
00:32:22.737 --> 00:32:25.107
You know, I don't know how you feel about this I believe there are no mistakes.
00:32:25.107 --> 00:32:35.664
There are only lessons and there are only things that help us move more and more forward to our life purpose and growing into who we're supposed to be as humans I totally agree with that.
00:32:35.846 --> 00:32:43.160
I think there's, you know it is even in experiments like role experiments or marketing experiments.
00:32:43.160 --> 00:32:47.790
I've never resonated with the word like, is this a success or a failure?
00:32:47.790 --> 00:32:50.199
I've always looked at it as is.
00:32:50.199 --> 00:32:50.680
Is it?
00:32:50.680 --> 00:32:52.786
Did you learn something from it?
00:32:52.786 --> 00:32:56.093
And if yes, then then it's a success.
00:32:56.093 --> 00:33:02.336
In another way, it is success and learning so that you can iterate from it, and that's that's true as well.
00:33:02.336 --> 00:33:07.612
You know, if there's, you know it's, the best teacher is life experience.
00:33:07.612 --> 00:33:11.125
You know, like messing up with something, I forgot who said this?
00:33:11.125 --> 00:33:11.567
Where it's?
00:33:11.567 --> 00:33:24.846
Uh, I think it's a football, a football coach who said, like you can really know somebody's character not when they win, but when they fail, when they lose, because that is really the best time to build character like it's.
00:33:24.846 --> 00:33:31.365
Will you like, will you carve in and quit, or will you learn from it and move forward?
00:33:31.365 --> 00:33:37.076
And and moving forward might mean that you pivot away from what you're originally doing.
00:33:37.076 --> 00:33:40.991
So I think that's uh, totally resonated with what you said there.
00:33:43.296 --> 00:33:44.638
There will be bad days.
00:33:44.638 --> 00:33:54.232
There's actually always going to be bad days, and when they come, it can be so easy to just think that they're never going to end.
00:33:54.232 --> 00:34:09.293
And there's that quote by Winston Churchill that I love when you're in hell, keep going, because really that's where the breakthroughs happen, when you push through the hardest moments.
00:34:09.293 --> 00:34:17.436
And Ramli's about to share a deeply personal story about his father's health care, which really shifted his outlook on life and work.
00:34:17.436 --> 00:34:22.672
It's important because it's these moments, the ones that shake us.
00:34:22.672 --> 00:34:26.838
These are the ones that end up shaping us the most.
00:34:26.838 --> 00:34:33.876
They give us clarity on what truly matters and force us to make some of the hardest but most meaningful choices.
00:34:33.876 --> 00:34:37.855
For Ramli, it wasn't just a wake-up call.
00:34:37.855 --> 00:34:43.590
It was a moment that changed how he looked at time, family and where he puts his energy.
00:34:43.590 --> 00:34:55.389
So you want to stick around for this part, because he's going to share how this experience shaped his perspective on work-life balance and taking care of what matters most.
00:34:57.751 --> 00:35:01.436
My dad is somebody I look up to.
00:35:01.436 --> 00:35:06.320
He's, you know he, first of all, he has great values.
00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:08.833
Like he, I learned to value people through.
00:35:08.833 --> 00:35:11.344
Through him, you know the importance of relationships.
00:35:11.344 --> 00:35:13.489
And he's super healthy.
00:35:13.489 --> 00:35:16.673
Like he's one of the healthiest 67.
00:35:16.673 --> 00:35:45.690
He goes swims laps three times a week and I'm just uh, in the last year he had a shock that he had blockages in his heart arteries, which you know that's usually a not not somebody who's fit uh would experience, and the doctor was like, oh, this is probably genetic, which shocked all of us and he had to had an open, emergency, open heart surgery because when they found it, they're like this needs to be unblocked now.
00:35:45.730 --> 00:35:51.393
And they found like seven, I think seven or nine blockages that they needed to unblock right away.
00:35:51.393 --> 00:36:00.717
Or else, uh, the doctor said that it was a ticking time bomb, like if and that gave it shocked our, my whole family, like it was.
00:36:00.717 --> 00:36:02.668
You know, I have three siblings, I'm the oldest.
00:36:02.668 --> 00:36:22.155
Uh, my mom was shocked too because, like man, my dad is healthy and something I didn't say in in this, in this recap that you read, is that my dad has a twin, like an identical twin, and my, his identical twin hasn't been active physically.
00:36:22.155 --> 00:36:34.887
So, like the comparison of how my dad looks uh, ramon looks like to his, his twin ray, it's like night and day my dad's fit, he's like, and they were just totally shocked for me.
00:36:36.030 --> 00:37:04.726
That put a lot of perspective into like what we've we've been talking a lot about, about like hard choices and easy life, about how saying yes to things means that you're saying no to others, and it made me value time spent not overworking rather than spending more time with family and making sure that I'm setting them up for for success as well.
00:37:04.726 --> 00:37:10.737
Uh, and yeah, I think that's, I think it's impacted the way I think about work.
00:37:10.737 --> 00:37:23.431
Uh, for sure, and like you know, being too, um, you know, too eager to to work overtime or work on weekends is something that that I I'm typically used to.
00:37:23.431 --> 00:37:29.695
That's shifted since I had a kid, of course, and now it's even shifted more since this experience.
00:37:30.436 --> 00:37:35.094
Sure Did it change the way you treat yourself.
00:37:35.655 --> 00:38:01.856
Yeah, it's something that for sure, I think I've been checking my high blood pressure more and trying to stay fit more and making sure that I live to see Zane grow up, essentially To hopefully see him get married and have a career and see him start making the world a better place.
00:38:01.856 --> 00:38:08.971
So, yes, really shifted the way that I also take care of myself, um, both physically and mentally.
00:38:08.971 --> 00:38:13.750
I think that's been super important where you know, um staying healthy there.
00:38:14.070 --> 00:38:21.135
You know, sometimes these, these, you know, these illnesses can really rattle us and shake us up.
00:38:21.135 --> 00:38:27.233
I, I, I went through something about seven years ago where it was like my life could have been very different from.
00:38:27.233 --> 00:38:32.349
It is now and it, um, I always say it's the best thing that ever happened to me.
00:38:32.349 --> 00:38:34.865
At the time it was the worst thing that ever happened to me.
00:38:35.608 --> 00:38:43.364
But, um, this is just what I, what I hear sort of in this resonating when you, when you speak about with, with your father, and how it's made you think differently.
00:38:43.364 --> 00:38:44.759
It's sort of in this resonating when you, when you speak about with, with your father, and how it's made you think differently.
00:38:44.759 --> 00:39:10.338
It's sort of like, okay, all right, it's you, you see the impermanence of everything, and not to get all Buddha on the mountaintop here, but the time is limited and you know, and it's like, okay, you can, either you can go this way or you can go this way, right, and you know if you can choose a high, a path that'll take you sort of higher so you can actually feel good while you're here, or you can stay your old way and keep that.
00:39:10.338 --> 00:39:26.826
So, yeah, that's really um, yeah, it's, it's one of those, those things that really shakes you and but can also be really great later, know, um, yeah, so thank you for really thank you for sharing that.
00:39:26.826 --> 00:39:28.931
I imagine how's your, how's your dad now?
00:39:29.992 --> 00:39:30.554
he's doing well.
00:39:30.554 --> 00:39:37.476
Yeah, I mean, he was, um, the doctor told he he was more sad after the surgery, that he couldn't swim.
00:39:37.476 --> 00:39:40.971
Yeah, okay, I was like, oh, I can't swim.
00:39:40.971 --> 00:39:43.295
Oh no, what do so like?
00:39:43.295 --> 00:39:46.519
And then January this year he's much healthier, I think.
00:39:46.519 --> 00:39:57.610
And then we've since traveled, because one of the things that happened was the doctor told me we can't fly and we've gone to the whole family.
00:39:57.610 --> 00:40:03.675
Like you know, there's three siblings, and then me and my brother are married.
00:40:03.675 --> 00:40:06.273
We both have kids, one kid each.
00:40:06.273 --> 00:40:12.637
So all of us we flew to a destination to just have a vacation in March.
00:40:12.637 --> 00:40:14.070
So it's doing well.
00:40:14.070 --> 00:40:16.869
Yeah, we went to Cuba.
00:40:17.592 --> 00:40:18.695
Where did you go we?
00:40:18.715 --> 00:40:21.585
had fun and in September we're going to Dominican Republic.
00:40:21.585 --> 00:40:26.297
I think just lounge around just hang out and chill yeah.
00:40:26.985 --> 00:40:29.432
Oh, Caribbean vacation.
00:40:29.432 --> 00:40:32.409
Oh yeah, that's always a great idea.
00:40:32.409 --> 00:40:33.715
Always a great idea.
00:40:35.485 --> 00:40:43.552
Growing up as a wild teenager, my father used to say to me youth is wasted on the young, and at the time I didn't know what he meant.
00:40:44.266 --> 00:40:48.476
But if you think about it now, I sort of see more why he was saying that to me.
00:40:48.476 --> 00:40:54.378
You know, we have these young free bodies and minds and here we are just wasting them away.
00:40:54.378 --> 00:41:10.327
Of course, that's not really what we're doing, and not everyone's doing that but really, if you could go back in time with all the knowledge that you have right now, but really, if you could go back in time with all the knowledge that you have right now, would you change it?
00:41:10.327 --> 00:41:24.295
For me, the answer is absolutely no, and one of the biggest reasons is that without all the lessons, all the wake-up calls, all the mistakes, all the stupid things I did, I wouldn't be who I am today, and I know that sounds really cliche, but I don't think I would have honored the gift of being alive like I do now.
00:41:24.295 --> 00:41:32.166
So I invite you to think about this for a minute what would you do with all the knowledge you have now?
00:41:32.166 --> 00:41:34.048
Would you do it again?
00:41:34.048 --> 00:41:39.119
Stay tuned and let's hear what Ramli has to say about this matter.
00:41:40.005 --> 00:42:10.614
When I was younger and this is something that I've heard from other folks as well where my young self was very like I'm running out of time, where I'm seeing things in Tech Crunch and other things were like, oh, they're a 20 year old and they've like, started a startup and now they've sold it for a billion dollars it was quite popular in the early 2000s where you see Facebook and things like that and I felt like I was running out of time.
00:42:10.614 --> 00:42:18.036
It's like I need to do this, I need to do this now, or if I don't do this by this time, then I am a failure or I'm not good enough.
00:42:18.036 --> 00:42:33.077
That's through therapy and having great people around me come to realize like tying success to trying self-report to success is not a great time.
00:42:33.077 --> 00:42:41.971
It's never great mentally and everything else, and that's something that I would probably tell my younger self that you know you got time.
00:42:41.971 --> 00:42:52.599
Slow it down, cherish the moment three people while, uh, you know, in the rush of trying to get things out, I was a little bit more harsh.
00:42:53.206 --> 00:42:59.177
I remember reading uh steve jobs book and how harsh he was with people.
00:42:59.177 --> 00:43:01.186
Uh, the one written by walter isaacson.
00:43:01.186 --> 00:43:04.010
It's like, oh, I need to be like that and I'm looking back.
00:43:04.010 --> 00:43:11.690
What was looking back to it was like man, I, I, that was a mistake, uh, learning experience.
00:43:11.690 --> 00:43:14.014
You know not to treat people well.
00:43:14.014 --> 00:43:16.759
Uh, it gets like there's there's time.
00:43:16.759 --> 00:43:29.271
Then the way you treat them uh is they can come back to you and you don't know who they talk to and you they might end up becoming colleagues, but they choose not to now because how you treated them.
00:43:29.271 --> 00:43:43.010
So I think that's one thing that I would redo is just take more breaks, relax, uh reassess if things are not working out and and just move, move forward.
00:43:43.010 --> 00:43:44.695
Be more gentle to people.
00:43:45.144 --> 00:43:45.766
I love that.
00:43:45.766 --> 00:43:48.032
What else would they say?
00:43:48.032 --> 00:43:49.074
What would actually?
00:43:49.074 --> 00:43:50.257
Here's something I was thinking.
00:43:50.257 --> 00:43:53.253
Somebody wants say I want to write a book.
00:43:53.253 --> 00:43:55.481
Ramli, you know I'm a writer.
00:43:55.481 --> 00:44:01.731
I'll just use myself as an example or to anyone who's listening I want to write a book, but I'm freaked out.
00:44:01.731 --> 00:44:03.092
I don't know what to write about.
00:44:03.092 --> 00:44:09.740
What advice would you give me if I just wanted, if I want to do it, but I don't even know where the hell to begin?
00:44:12.809 --> 00:44:15.005
Yeah, there's two parts that I heard there there's.
00:44:15.005 --> 00:44:25.467
The first part is I don't know what to write about, and the second one is like I'm freaked out, or they could be tied, or like I'm freaked out because I don't know what to write about.
00:44:25.467 --> 00:44:36.077
So I think we're yeah, I would start where if I would you know with a, with a second question about where do what do I want to write about?
00:44:36.077 --> 00:44:37.987
I think that's.
00:44:37.987 --> 00:44:45.880
It depends if it's non-fiction or a business book or if it's more fiction and it's like a passion.
00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:50.226
You know something that's more fiction focused If it's nonfiction.
00:44:51.027 --> 00:44:57.018
The one thing that I've heard asked, you know somebody mentioned to me is what do you want to be known for?
00:44:57.018 --> 00:45:05.697
Like, what is it If you had to attach your name you know, nicole to a concept or a word or an idea?
00:45:05.697 --> 00:45:07.699
What is that?
00:45:07.699 --> 00:45:21.695
And if that's the word or attachment, whatever that is figuring that out first and this is part of this show is figuring out your life purpose, figuring out what you want to be known for.
00:45:21.695 --> 00:45:27.797
Maybe it's not your whole life purpose, but what you know, your work, work, mission or purpose itself.
00:45:27.797 --> 00:45:36.045
That's a great place to start because, like you, crafting a book about it Now people will know you for that specifically.
00:45:36.045 --> 00:45:40.396
People invite you to talk about that topic that you care about.
00:45:40.396 --> 00:45:43.255
That's something that you want you can talk about for hours per se.
00:45:43.255 --> 00:45:51.027
So that's where I would start for that.
00:45:51.047 --> 00:45:52.331
To the second question about, like you know, what do I do?
00:45:52.411 --> 00:45:53.132
Like, how do I stop freaking out?
00:45:53.132 --> 00:46:19.358
I think people having people around you who's done it, like, the one thing that I found was is that book authors or authors in writing a book is is such a painful process and when you talk to people who and just ask for advice and reach out hey, I'm thinking about writing a book to other authors they're so, so open and helpful because they know the pain of goes to writing it.
00:46:19.358 --> 00:46:35.456
So when I was writing the book, I got a chance to reach out to a few other authors, like april dunford he's she's based out of toronto and niriyal, who wrote the book, hooked because west knew him and just like um, just chatting with them and it really helped.
00:46:35.456 --> 00:46:38.146
Uh, and a few other folks who have.
00:46:38.166 --> 00:46:39.849
You know I've returned.
00:46:39.849 --> 00:46:59.652
I've since returned the favor to people who who's wanted to write book, like you know, eddie schlener he's coming out with his book and you know, um, you know other other folks, he's such a good writer, yeah yes, yeah, and then, um, you know georgiana lottie, when she wrote her book, uh, we, we chatted uh for a bit as well.
00:46:59.672 --> 00:47:02.197
So, like I think, that's, that's the thing also.
00:47:02.217 --> 00:47:03.860
She's so cool yeah, she is.
00:47:04.182 --> 00:47:05.909
Oh yeah, she was there at hot jar, she was.
00:47:05.909 --> 00:47:07.315
She was so awesome.
00:47:07.315 --> 00:47:08.780
That's how we know each other.
00:47:08.780 --> 00:47:33.974
So I would say that do the second part, like reach out to a few, to a few, a few authors, and just say, hey, um, I'm thinking about writing a book, like would love to just buy you coffee, just more virtual thing, so that we can, we can chat about it, because chances are they they'd be open to it, unless they're you know somebody like malcolm gladwell or seth coden which they're too busy.
00:47:34.056 --> 00:47:40.052
But, like in general, like book authors are a community because they know the pain that goes through it.
00:47:40.052 --> 00:47:43.105
Like nothing connects people to each other more, more than something painful.
00:47:43.105 --> 00:47:43.364
You know it could, it could be.
00:47:43.364 --> 00:47:44.065
Nothing connects people to each other more than something painful.
00:47:44.065 --> 00:47:49.237
It could be people who are like community managers.
00:47:49.237 --> 00:47:57.172
They're great because they know the pain of managing a community or having community around a certain group, because they know the pain that it goes through that.
00:47:57.172 --> 00:47:58.411
So I think that's what I've been.
00:47:58.411 --> 00:48:00.512
I found the book author community has been.
00:48:00.512 --> 00:48:04.873
It's very, very supportive with each other.
00:48:05.213 --> 00:48:05.916
I love that.
00:48:05.916 --> 00:48:16.617
You know, that is really sort of this guiding statement for me, and it's really what I take the most out of our conversation, because you can.
00:48:16.617 --> 00:48:18.411
You can apply this anywhere.
00:48:18.411 --> 00:48:27.215
Say, if you are somebody who is a new content creator and you don't know where to start, or you don't know where to start and you've got all these ideas.
00:48:27.215 --> 00:48:32.036
But if you go with this sort of what do I want to be known for?
00:48:32.036 --> 00:48:45.050
What do I want to be known for on TikTok, instagram, linkedin, or maybe that's just a side thing, but what do you want to be known for, you can actually use that in all aspects of your career.
00:48:45.230 --> 00:48:48.052
Really, actually, that actually makes it quite easy.
00:48:48.052 --> 00:48:58.612
And I love how you also said, like what is it you could just talk about for for hours, you know, and then it's really that it's almost embarrassing how easy it actually is.
00:48:58.612 --> 00:49:09.813
Once you I think it was Oprah who says it right, people don't get where they want to go because they don't know, right, but if you know what it is you like and you follow that passion, it actually all starts connecting.
00:49:09.813 --> 00:49:11.905
It's not like a walk in the park.
00:49:11.905 --> 00:49:18.909
It's still hard, it doesn't come easy, but it's easier because it's what lights you up and gets you into that flow state too.
00:49:18.909 --> 00:49:22.414
So damn, that's good.
00:49:22.414 --> 00:49:25.422
I needed that, see, I needed that today.
00:49:25.422 --> 00:49:37.884
So, when our audience is listening to this, I think that's really going to help a lot of people actually, and it's so simple, but it's overlooked because we always think we have to like, produce and get all the followers and do this.
00:49:37.884 --> 00:49:42.146
Yeah, what do you want to be known for?
00:49:42.827 --> 00:49:46.329
Yeah, because we always think we have to produce and get all the followers and do this.
00:49:46.329 --> 00:49:47.349
What do you want to be known for?
00:49:47.349 --> 00:49:49.271
Yeah, I mean, I mentioned I wrote a book on onboarding.
00:49:49.271 --> 00:49:55.094
I think there's the other thing what problem in the world do you want to fix?
00:49:55.094 --> 00:49:57.996
What do you want to live behind that, so to speak?
00:49:57.996 --> 00:50:16.684
I've been thinking a lot about, like, activation and retention problems, uh, for my work, and I think that's not it's not often talked enough about because, uh, you know acquisition and you gotta get the sale and you do that, and I wrote the book on onboarding I'm writing a book about.
00:50:16.804 --> 00:50:30.670
The second book I'm working on is about customer delight because, like, the light is when you, when it happens, it feels like, if, like, especially if it's a digital product, uh, it's like, wow, there's something special here.
00:50:30.670 --> 00:50:34.884
And you know how do you even define, how do you measure delight?
00:50:34.884 --> 00:50:36.768
Uh, you know where, where does it go?
00:50:36.768 --> 00:50:43.010
Those are the kind of questions that started popping up that me and my co-author, uh, have started digging into.
00:50:43.010 --> 00:50:44.860
We've started chatting, you know.
00:50:44.860 --> 00:51:03.324
We've chatted with over 40 companies now, um, that have worked on delight companies, people who's worked at, like, mailchimp and at, uh other places uh, that is, that is chewy and everywhere else, like even Disney and Apple.
00:51:03.324 --> 00:51:04.967
Like how do you think about that?
00:51:04.967 --> 00:51:05.943
How do you design it?
00:51:05.943 --> 00:51:11.528
What happens when leadership is like oh, that's not necessarily, let's cut that off.
00:51:11.528 --> 00:51:18.704
So I think that's what I wanna be known for is around helping people fix activation and retention problems.
00:51:18.704 --> 00:51:20.751
How about yourself?
00:51:20.751 --> 00:51:22.547
Have you started thinking about that?
00:51:22.760 --> 00:51:25.141
You know, that's a really good question For me.
00:51:25.141 --> 00:51:39.494
I have to say, my overarching life purpose, soul mission, is to help others see their light and to help people rise to the best versions of themselves.
00:51:39.494 --> 00:51:43.050
And it actually came to me when I was about 22 years old.
00:51:43.050 --> 00:51:48.253
I was struggling with really crippling anxiety and panic attacks.
00:51:48.253 --> 00:51:59.721
I didn't know who I was, what I wanted to be, and I struggled with them for a long time and I remember saying then you know, I remember just being one day and you know I remember just being one day.
00:51:59.721 --> 00:52:26.586
I was like one day I'm going to figure out who I am, why I'm so nervous all the time and why I'm so scared, and I'm going to use that to help other people and that's going to be my life mission, because I don't want anyone to feel like they are alone or struggling, and so really, that's what guides me every day, even though even I'm working as a writer, editor, working in marketing, I have to make OKRs, I have to do all the stuff everyone else does.
00:52:26.586 --> 00:52:41.934
I always like to make, I always like people to feel that they are important, they matter, and I like bringing out their, their light and where they really shine and where they do really well.
00:52:44.280 --> 00:52:47.710
So what that is as a career, I don't know.
00:52:47.710 --> 00:52:48.945
I'm kind of doing it, though.
00:52:48.945 --> 00:52:55.228
You know I interview people, I do podcasts, I work in marketing, I work as a community manager.
00:52:55.228 --> 00:53:00.362
You know I'm always connecting people, but it's always that core thing.
00:53:00.362 --> 00:53:02.125
Maybe it's okay.
00:53:02.125 --> 00:53:10.664
Maybe it's being the, the woman I needed when I was, you know, 22 years old, or the person you know it's.
00:53:10.664 --> 00:53:17.985
It's not gender specific, but being that, that person that says, hey, you got this, you can do this.
00:53:17.985 --> 00:53:21.913
Yeah, what that is, I don't know, probably.
00:53:22.072 --> 00:53:22.855
The world's your oyster.
00:53:22.855 --> 00:53:26.068
You have a lot of places you can go towards if you want it.
00:53:26.891 --> 00:53:27.331
Thank you.
00:53:27.331 --> 00:53:29.527
I mean, I'm always a writer at heart.
00:53:29.527 --> 00:53:31.507
I always love telling stories.
00:53:31.507 --> 00:53:33.820
I love telling brand stories.
00:53:33.820 --> 00:53:39.672
I love connecting brands with their audience in a human-centric way.
00:53:39.672 --> 00:54:02.643
You know, if I was to write a story about you, maybe at AppCues, I would want to connect people to what you do at your core, so sort of maybe connecting in a bit of an unconventional way but still sort of aligned in sort of that business system as well.
00:54:02.643 --> 00:54:08.541
I'm not that too esoteric, I'm not that far out as well, like I like to merge all of it.
00:54:08.541 --> 00:54:10.184
So, yeah, anyway, thank you for that.
00:54:10.184 --> 00:54:18.045
One more question for you, because I love this question and I saw it on an interview and I hadn't asked it for a while.
00:54:18.045 --> 00:54:23.695
But you could have dinner with one person, alive or not alive.
00:54:23.695 --> 00:54:25.523
Who would it be and why?
00:54:25.523 --> 00:54:26.588
Wow?
00:54:29.742 --> 00:54:30.786
That's such a good question.
00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:32.668
I know I love this one.
00:54:32.860 --> 00:54:45.143
Yeah, I would probably say I'd pick a live person first, probably say, uh, try to pick a live person first.
00:54:45.143 --> 00:54:46.487
Live person, I I would wouldn't.
00:54:46.487 --> 00:54:49.293
I would love to have dinner with bill gates.
00:54:49.293 --> 00:54:53.021
Um, not just because of of, um, of what you know, microsoft obviously co-founded that.
00:54:53.021 --> 00:55:37.103
But I recently read yesterday that steve ballmer and him they both co-founded microsoft, but steve ballmer is like exponentially richer than my, than bill gates, and the reason why is, yeah, because bill gates has been giving away a large portion of his, his, his wealth, to to causes that solve world problems, like hunger and even like clean water in Africa, like, like, he's just like so ingrained in, um, you know, all this philanthropy and making the leaving the world a better place, and you know just, he even has his own youtube channel, but he talks about this, which is super interesting.
00:55:37.103 --> 00:55:52.990
So, I think, just asking him what drives him and like how he works, because he I heard he has an interesting work schedule and challenge based on the netflix uh documentary or documentary about him oh, that was really good.
00:55:53.452 --> 00:56:22.181
Yeah, it is, I loved that actually it's a good one, yeah, being around people who care about other people, even though they're at this certain level of fame, where it's so easy to be at that level, to be a diva, to expect certain things from people where now you're like, oh, I'm better than you, which is that's not the vibe that even you know.
00:56:22.181 --> 00:56:42.672
One day, if, if I'm ever become, if I ever become at the same level of fame as coldplay I, I would want to keep you know, remain grounded and and feel uh, people feel like I'm only talking to them when I'm talking to them rather than being somewhere else, and really that's it.
00:56:42.900 --> 00:56:50.012
You know, offering your presence to another human is like the highest form of respect that you can give.
00:56:50.012 --> 00:56:53.559
You know, Ramli, this has been incredible.
00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:59.293
I can't thank you enough for being one of our first guests on this value-driven podcast.
00:56:59.293 --> 00:57:00.967
Always a pleasure to talk to you.
00:57:00.967 --> 00:57:09.451
I always feel better after spending time with you, so that's something that you have and that's something that nobody can take from you.
00:57:09.451 --> 00:57:10.161
And what is?
00:57:10.161 --> 00:57:17.606
I think it was Maya Angelou that said people never forget what you say, but they always remember how you make them feel, and you make people feel good.
00:57:17.606 --> 00:57:19.106
So thank you for being here.
00:57:19.239 --> 00:57:19.842
Thank you so much.
00:57:19.842 --> 00:57:20.324
You're welcome.
00:57:20.324 --> 00:57:23.376
That's a great compliment.
00:57:25.141 --> 00:57:29.940
I hope today's episode brought you inspiration and insight into what it means to live a purpose driven life.
00:57:29.940 --> 00:57:34.251
If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe and leave us a review.
00:57:34.251 --> 00:57:40.072
Your feedback helps us grow and reach more listeners who are on their own journey to finding and living their purpose.
00:57:40.072 --> 00:57:44.710
And remember living with purpose isn't some far-off destination.
00:57:44.710 --> 00:57:46.768
It's a journey that we're all on together.
00:57:46.768 --> 00:57:51.170
So if you aren't living your purpose fully right now, don't worry.
00:57:51.170 --> 00:57:54.889
If you're still alive, your mission on Earth is not complete.
00:57:54.889 --> 00:57:58.123
So keep going, and until next time.
00:57:58.123 --> 00:58:01.170
I'm Nicole Gottselig and this is Connect With Purpose.
00:58:07.981 --> 00:58:11.271
Thanks for joining us on Connect With Purpose, produced by Titan One.
00:58:11.271 --> 00:58:19.831
Connect With Purpose is hosted by Nicole Gotsselig, executive producer, Mark Glucki, producer, Sian Sue - hey, that's me.
00:58:19.831 --> 00:58:26.748
Special thanks to Mark Edwards, editing, Monica Lo and dave chow design and Charlie the office dog.
00:58:26.748 --> 00:58:32.268
Do you have an inspiring story, or maybe you know someone who's followed their passion to find a new purpose?
00:58:32.268 --> 00:58:33.740
Reach out on our site.
00:58:33.740 --> 00:58:34.766
We'd love to hear from you.