Knowledge is Power: Navigating Condo Management the Right Way

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Welcome to the Condo Pod, presented by the Canadian Condominium Institute, Eastern Ontario's chapter, your go-to place for everything condos in Eastern Ontario.
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From governance to legal, from maintenance, management, and community living, we are diving into the topics that matter most to condo owners, directors, and professionals in our region.
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So today's guest sits in a really interesting intersection.
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He's both a uh teacher as a lecturer in real estate at Queen's University and is actively working in property management today.
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That combination gives him a perspective we don't often see uh in this industry.
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So welcome, Michael Trendoda, to the conto pod.
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Welcome.
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Thank you very much.
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Thanks for having me.
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I appreciate it.
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It's a pleasure.
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Appreciate it.
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So for those that uh perhaps have no clue who you are, uh, do you want to just give yourself a brief intro?
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Sure.
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Yeah, like a three-minute summary and compress it really fast.
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Um, came to Ontario in 2012, 2013.
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Uh, I did my MBA at Queens, and I went straight into property management as one does.
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Um, I worked as a partner together for 12 years or so, built out a conduit management company, uh, sold it, and went to teach at Queens.
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And uh I've been teaching Queens for four about four and a half years now, four years now.
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And I spend half my time teaching real estate at Queens and the other half in industry at a property management company out of the GTA called GPM property management.
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Right.
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So half time there, halftime at Queens, one foot academic, one foot in industry.
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That's me.
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Interesting.
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So, like that's gonna you're gonna get a very different perspective because those that are doing, like just doing and not teaching, right, are are constantly going to be, they're still gonna improve their skill set.
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We have continued education responsibilities, like we're still learning.
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But when you're teaching somebody, you're also gonna get the perspective of of somebody who has no idea what's going on.
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Yes, right.
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And they're gonna challenge you, yeah, in some instances to say, why are we doing this?
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Why is this important?
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Why are we doing that?
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Why do we have condo legislation, right?
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Like these kind of things happen all the time.
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So, how does that dual perspective shape how you see the industry kind of overall?
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It's you know what, it's an interesting question to ask because I'm always going down to the very basics.
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What is a condo, right?
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It's uh it's not a built form, it's a legislative structure, it's an ownership structure with shared responsibilities or with shared components, individual components.
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I'm always explaining that from the ground up.
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Right.
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I'm always explaining why we have legislation.
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I'm always explaining how the industry is moving and shaping.
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So it forces me to every semester go back to the beginning, explain it again.
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Go back to the beginning, explain it again.
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And it means that I spend a lot of time on the basics and I spend also a lot of time trying to stay up to date with how things are changing, because I'm keeping on, I can't give someone 20-year-old knowledge, right?
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Because that's that's not why they go to university.
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So I'm forced to keep doing that.
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Interesting.
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So by by pulling yourself back to those basics consistently, uh, do you see something that doesn't quite hold up like once it gets to real real world value?
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Something that you're you're explaining to them from the basics, where it's like, you know, we explain a common element, we can explain an exclusive use, all that sort of stuff.
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Is there anything that you've noticed that as you get into the real world application, it becomes a little bit more gray, less, you know, by the book?
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Okay, interesting.
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You know what?
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I actually don't spend that much time teaching condo.
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Sure.
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So my my classes are designed around teach us real estate, go, we have one class to do it.
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So I look kind of like, do I do property management, do I do condo management, do I do evaluation, do I do engineering, do I do law?
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And I say to the students on the first day, I can't teach all this to you.
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Right.
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So I have to pick and choose which parts I teach.
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So those parts that I teach, I try to teach that those that will stay true, regardless of what industry you're you're in, whether you're in residential property management, whether you're in development, whether you're in condo management.
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So the the pieces that will stay consistent and those that are applicable around the world.
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So I actually don't spend very much time on condo, I spend a little more time on evaluation because that's how the real estate management and development industry looks at it, is primarily from a valuation point of view.
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How much is it worth?
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How much does it cost to build?
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How much can I sell it for?
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What's my margin there?
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And that's how I look at it.
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So I try to teach them the underlying theory, most of all, because the theory is going to stay true regardless of when and how you're applying it.
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So I the I just unfortunately don't have time to really get that deep into operating plans, right?
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And turnaround plans for shopping malls.
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I don't have that much time to get into all that.
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So it's primarily the theory that was going to be true regardless of when and where you are.
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Okay.
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So let's take it on the flip side then in the property management side of the world.
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Uh, you come with a knowledge base, you've been doing this for quite some time.
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Is there something you see as you bring on new team members that you know they learned this in academia?
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Yeah, and they're trying to apply it in in that space, and the it's just not lining up properly.
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Yeah.
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And the the this is uh it's a kind of a good question to go down because there are lots of these things, and that's when the how it should be done meets the real world, right?
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So we should have 12 board meetings a year or 10 board meetings a year or whatever it is.
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But the reality is that sometimes board members don't want meetings all that time, or they want to take two months off for the summer or for Christmas, or here we do things a little bit differently.
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So you have these trained individuals coming out of schools and they're hitting the real world where they just don't want to do it that way, right?
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We don't want to go get three bids for this, we want to get one, or we want to get 17, right?
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And now you're trying to explain to them why one is not enough and why 17 is too many, right?
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At 17, you're gonna make everyone mad because they have a one out of 17 chance.
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If you have one bid, well, then are you getting the best pricing?
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Right, right.
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So it's trying to you have to take the students who come with this knowledge of how things should be done and trying to give them the leeway to be able to adjust to how the real world does it, but know when to kind of bring it in, right, where it's too excessive, where the real world has too much leeway.
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Sure.
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So you have your straight and narrow, you have the wobbly, and somewhere in the middle is how we want to manage, right?
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If a board member says, you know what, two is fine, well, maybe that's okay, right?
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But when they want to go to too many quotes, you have to kind of rein them in saying, listen, there's no point after four.
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Yeah, I remember I worked with one client once where we were doing, it was a major project.
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So definitely want to have competitive bids, you want a proper tender process, uh, ensure that you know you're qualifying these bids, all that sort of process.
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And and they were like, Okay, we want to take it on a Mercs and we want to go out to everybody, you know, whether they're in in Ottawa or in Toronto or this.
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And I'm like, guys, like it's not gonna be the right idea.
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You're gonna get so many uh bids that get brought in, you're not gonna be able to understand who's doing what.
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Like, I don't know the players in the GTA to say that this this contractor has the not only the boots on the ground staff to be able to do stuff, but the back of office to make sure their invoicing is correct.
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Like, I can't think and this is with their doing that is actually diluting your experience because you could say in Ottawa, these are the top five.
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Yeah, right.
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You can say that.
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But now when I force you to bring in 30 of them, you have no idea who's the top five in Waterloo.
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Correct.
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And they come in, you know, half the price of all these other teams, and that's that's uh attractive, yeah, right.
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As a as a board of directors that give this fiduciary responsibility, but you're also just a volunteer in most cases, and your skill set may not be towards you know, bids and and all that sort of stuff.
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Is there something that you see in the industry that's currently undervaluing academia?
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Yes, yeah.
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And I think we can get into kind of a larger discussion of what is the current state of training in the industry, how are we going through our CMRA courses?
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What I think is being undervalued is managers with formal educations.
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So formal educations, and I think of college, two, three, four-year programs or university bachelor's degrees, they're being undervalued in industry because they're not being recognized for their combination of hard and soft skills.
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So if we compare that to someone who has kind of worked their way up through the industry, which is a very valid and it's a very respected way of doing things, but with doing that, you're missing certain things.
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So when I think of an undergrad coming out of, let's say, a business program, and take any of them, they're they're all good.
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So coming out of an undergrad, they have courses in accounting, they have courses in finance, they have courses in HR, they have courses in law.
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So they have a deeper and wider base that they could put later on the condo specific knowledge afterwards.
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And those are the hard skills, but also the soft skills.
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They've been presenting for four years.
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They've been in front of classmates and professors for four years.
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They have these soft skills of how to negotiate certain conversations.
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So those are those graduates are not being recruited enough and they're not being valued enough to move into our industry.
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And where you really see this is not in like the first two, three weeks, right?
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Because you're all learning and you nobody knows anything in the first couple of weeks.
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Yeah.
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But where you see the real differences are when they're a GL and you're setting them free.
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Go out and now you have your own boards.
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Now you have now you're running your whole generation, your portfolio.
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And where you see that is they're coming back to you less and they have better to their managers less.
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They're having fewer issues with retention.
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They know how to handle more sticky and odd type of situations and manage different, um, different personalities on the board.
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So there is a difference there between the two.
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And I'm in my limited way, am I trying to steer our industry into looking at hiring more from formal education and bringing them into our industry?
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So, why do you think right now there's that gap?
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Like, why aren't we going like in an ideal situation?
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Like, you know, I'm somebody that went through the grind, you know, started at the bottom and climbed up the ladder that way.
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Um why do you think that there is a more uh uh apt way for the the companies or the the boards or whatnot to choose that path rather than saying, okay, well, we would like you know, somebody with an MBA or a bachelor's business who's gonna have that skill set.
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Because I agree, like it would it would make my life infinitely easier if I had that skill set before having to kind of learn the hard way in some instances, right?
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Like I've been, you know, managing condos now effectively for about six years in the industry for seven or eight.
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Um and I've had to learn the hard way on some projects that oh, okay, this is why you do something this way.
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Um, you know, I've created my repertoire and the people around me to help support that.
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But why do you think that that that's like why aren't the people coming to condo management?
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So I think this is two issues.
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This is the push and the pull.
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So the the push is that students coming out of an undergrad aren't thinking of let's start a great reward and career in condo management.
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It's not seen as a sexy thing.
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They're primarily thinking of asset management.
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They are thinking of, I want to work for Brookfield, I want to manage a portfolio of 10 shopping malls, I want to run, I want to spend my time on Excel running numbers.
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And that's it, right?
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That the they're thinking of that.
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They're attracted to brand name and prestige and not getting your hands dirty, if you will, by just by looking at spreadsheets, right?
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And spending their time doing that and managing large amounts of money, large mortgages, refinancings, working for pension funds.
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It's seen as a that's seen as like the sexy thing to do.
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Right.
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So they're not really attracted to property management, they're not attracted to the fact that there's stability in the industry, the fact that there is a you run your own schedule.
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You have your own clients and you have your own reporting that you do to your clients and you're managing your own relationships.
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They're not attracted to that and a dozen other features.
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So that's so that's on the student side of it.
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On the industry side of it, we are not, and I speak as a property manager, we are not going and finding them inside these schools.
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We are not making a good case for our industry why we should be attracting these types of students.
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So we're not going to career fairs.
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We are not putting together our own trade shows, right?
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We don't have uh like CCI or or any other group isn't going to uh universities or colleges and saying, here are 10 managers, each one has two or three hires to make.
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We need 30 hires.
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Come on down, we'll teach you about our industry.
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And here's all the the highlights.
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Yeah, here's the great parts about the industry.
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Here's a list of who's in this room right now, who's hiring, right?
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We're not doing that.
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Right.
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So, like we're not pulling them in.
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So it's a combination of the two.
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So, would you say that that's like a recruitment problem industry-wide from your perspective?
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Yeah, it's it's industry-wide.
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It's not Ottawa, it's not Toronto, it's all of it.
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Right.
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It's all so I guess then if you were to design the ideal pipeline from scratch, what what would it look like?
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What would be the ideal world for you know, condominium managers coming up through whatever system that looks like?
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What's the ideal way?
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So the way I'd like to see this is that in we have our students who have self-selected into business programs.
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They're saying, you know, I want to be in business.
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I like to understand money, I want to understand people, I want to understand accounting, I want to understand that.
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So they have self-selected into the business program.
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And they are constantly interacted with throughout their education.
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So let's say they're so uh students in undergrad programs, especially in business schools, are always looking for summer internships.
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They're looking for something to do in the summer.
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We need to find, as an industry, a way of getting them into our businesses for the summer.
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They come to us summer of second year, summer third year, summer fourth year, or sorry, summer uh first year, summer of second, summer of third year.
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So they come to us for three summers.
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That's 12 years, 12 months of work they can be doing in our industry.
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So we need to get on campus and we need to start recruiting them and saying, hey, let's do a summer internship with us.
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And by the time they graduate, they graduate into a job in one of our companies.
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So I see it as academic while they're starting to work in the summers in industry.
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And when they graduate, they're going into industry.
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So they get a taste of it.
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They get a taste of it.
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The ones that hate this industry self-select out, but the ones that like it stay back and come back into it.
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And during that time, they can be working on their courses, they can be getting their like their uh CMRAO courses, they could be getting their hours and they graduate.
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And then we have a couple of years where they're finishing off their GL requirements.
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And what we have at that point is someone who has a couple of years of industry experience, someone who has a formal education and who is ready to move into uh a full portfolio manager role, but also has the capacity to take on more, right?
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When we look at regional managers or we look at uh district, whatever, whatever the whatever your your business calls them, they have the capacity to actually move into that role.
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Because they have that skill set that's broader from the formal education rather than there.
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So, how would the industry be unintentionally filter out these individuals?
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Like um I I understand the concept, like we're not we're not enticing them, we're not we're not letting them know that this exists.
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Right.
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You know, I remember and we've had a conversation before on the podcast that most condo managers stumble into the role or they're you know an administrator on a property or they're part of the security team, absolutely, you know, part of the concierge in some properties, and that's how they become aware of this this situation.
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So, how can we um like still ensure that those individuals, because you know, self self-promoting here?
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Like I'm one of those people, so I don't want to wean that out because there are going to be you know diamonds in the rough that can do those skills.
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So, how do you bridge the gap then between the individual who has that kind of skill set and the high performing academia?
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Yes.
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So I think the those who uh let's say started off at the and it's the same thing in the GTA, same thing, either start off as an admin or you start off as a security or concierge, exact same model applies there.
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So those should not be looked down on in any way because they don't have that formal education.
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But let's come up with a way of helping them get that formal education, right?
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So can we give them so uh when when I look at the CMRA courses, they are the very minimum legally required to be in this business.
00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.160
Yeah, and they need some work in their areas, they're they're good in some spaces.
00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.359
They taught me a lot, but I do think that there are gaps, not for today's conversation.
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:31.839
Yeah, not that's a different day's conversation, but we can have them taking evening courses and weekend courses, and we can subsidize that as part of our business and helping them get through these courses.
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:44.240
So, what we're doing is that we are saying that no matter how you get into this business, we're gonna give you the same skills or make sure you have the same skills to be looking years in the future in your career.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:46.960
So I think that's one way we could be doing it.
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:48.640
Yeah, that's I think that's fair.
00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:55.519
Uh, it would be up to, you know, obviously the businesses to have the resources to be able to do something like that and the scaling aspect of it.
00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:04.160
So what would you say is something that a newly licensed manager is is is not prepared for when they first get started in the industry with your experience?
00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:07.359
They are there's a few things that they're not prepared for.
00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:12.880
One, and it depends on the size of your portfolio, the size of your corporations, the sure amount of money involved.
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:13.440
Right.
00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:18.400
So we have corporations with million, two million dollar budgets.
00:18:18.559 --> 00:18:23.839
We have reserve funds in the five million dollar range on some of the upper end uh size properties.
00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:28.880
So they're not prepared for that size of uh that dollar amount.
00:18:29.119 --> 00:18:34.079
I remember the first uh when I first started, we were doing checks and it wasn't electric payments.
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:37.839
And I remember the first time that I had a$10,000 check in my hand.
00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:39.359
And it was, you know, something simple.
00:18:39.440 --> 00:18:40.480
It was just like utilities.
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:40.720
Yeah.
00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:43.440
And I'm scared holding this$10,000 check.
00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:47.279
I never, you know, you can't imagine that kind of money when you're a kid getting started.
00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:48.000
So you're right.
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:52.160
That first time you do the$1.6 million budget, you're going, oh my goodness.
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:57.119
And you're doing this budget for you know 200, 300 families.
00:18:57.279 --> 00:18:57.599
Yeah.
00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.000
Uh, and that's their biggest asset that you're dealing with.
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:06.319
And if you get something wrong on it, you're gonna have 400 questions about it, probably the next day, probably phone call.
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:11.440
So it's the the scale and the size of the industry, the amount of money that's involved.
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:16.079
The fact that anyone coming onto your property to do work isn't will be getting paid for that.
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:19.680
Yeah, but they're also incurring risk and liability to your corporation.
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:31.759
So it's you just you just get hit by the whole thing that this is not, even though it might be two employees or one employee at that property, this is a full-on operation and they're not prepared for that.
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:39.279
These are really miniature businesses all in one, especially for the larger, the smaller property is not really like a 20-unit townhouse complex.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:39.759
No, sure.
00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:44.400
But I look at 100, 200 unit property, these are businesses, they are full.
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:56.799
Yeah, one of the things I always say to friends or colleagues when they first start kind of cu getting curious about condos is my perspective is that a condo is a non-for-profit business that you're buying into, and the perk is you get to live there.
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.440
Yeah, the extra added features you get to live there.
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:04.799
You're a shareholder, and one of the perks they're gonna give you is somewhere that you can live and you get your own market value on it.
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:06.079
So take care of it as it will.
00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:07.599
They're not prepared for that.
00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:14.000
They're not prepared for the frequent interaction between the industry and lawyers.
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:17.680
They're not prepared for the things that you need a lawyer's opinion on and the things that don't.
00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:21.920
They're not familiar with working within the bounds of a licensing plant framework.
00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.960
There's certain things I can and can't provide advice on because I am limited by that.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:33.680
So they're just they're not used to the the sheer size and scale and complexity of this industry.
00:20:33.759 --> 00:20:40.000
And I think that applies for regardless of how you got into this industry, you just you just kind of get hit like a by bus.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.720
You just get hit by it and you realize, oh wow, this is this is a real operation.
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:49.839
Yeah, the the industry is definitely a sink or swim mentality for managers as they come in.
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:57.279
That's something I've heard repeatedly from from managers that got in just you know around the same time as I did or shortly thereafter myself.
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:04.480
Uh, would you feel that that's something that's kind of a curriculum issue with like I don't know, I don't want to call it the CMRIO.
00:21:04.559 --> 00:21:12.880
That's not the point of the conversation is, but would it be a curriculum issue, or is it an expectation issue from the client or employer?
00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:16.720
What does protecting people's buildings mean to us?
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:27.519
It means having a deep understanding of your building, taking proactive action, and empowering those who manage it with the tools and insight needed to make well-informed decisions.
00:21:28.480 --> 00:21:38.079
Our technical expertise is grounded in condominium management practices, ensuring our services align with the realities of shared ownership and day-to-day operations.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:44.880
We consult, we deliver, and we are driven to help condominium communities thrive.
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:49.279
Oh, that's a good question.
00:21:49.359 --> 00:21:51.759
I know what there has to be components of both in it.
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:56.160
And I think we can also bring in like their underlying education before that as well.
00:21:56.400 --> 00:22:04.880
So from the employer side, there's no real Soft way of bringing you this into this industry, other than just shadowing someone for two months.
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.440
Yeah, you can bring them onto some smaller properties in some instances.
00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:17.599
And I'm not going to say that smaller properties are always easier because there's definitely ones that we have that are, you know, 15 units that can be very challenging.
00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.839
Uh, when you get smaller, every dollar uh means something.
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:22.880
You have to change the roof.
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:24.880
It's divided by 12, not by 100.
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:25.119
Yeah.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:27.279
So it's a very different conversation.
00:22:27.440 --> 00:22:29.039
Uh so yeah, I sorry, go ahead.
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:36.799
So that's uh on that, on that side of it, we can do more with the required education for sure.
00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:42.000
We can also do more with what skills are we expecting them to come into the industry with?
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:42.319
Right.
00:22:42.559 --> 00:22:48.079
What underlying college or university education or a previous experience from their other industry?
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:49.519
What are we looking at?
00:22:49.839 --> 00:23:02.880
Because when we are hiring from that security role, that is typically someone who's coming to us without a comprehensive background in something, in business of some way.
00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:04.319
In some cases, we do.
00:23:04.559 --> 00:23:10.720
In some cases, they pick that up very quickly, but in lots of cases, they don't have a background in accounting.
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.400
They have no idea what a GL is or general ledger.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:20.480
I'm I was I don't want to confuse it with general licensing, but they don't know what a general ledger is, they don't know what a profit and loss is.
00:23:20.559 --> 00:23:22.319
They don't I'm gonna tell you one small thing.
00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:33.680
For the first, I would say four months, because I started with uh I think I started with law and when I did my courses, then did building sciences, and people kept saying GL code, GL code, GL code.
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.160
And I'm like, why are there so many general license codes?
00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:39.759
And then I did the finance course and was like, oh, general ledger.
00:23:40.079 --> 00:23:45.279
Interesting a great example of not coming in with that base knowledge out of an education system.
00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:45.920
Right.
00:23:46.240 --> 00:23:54.240
So I there's a I think a lot we can do, and our industry has been maturing, has been forced to mature really quickly over the last 10 years.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:24:04.000
We've matured more in the last 10 years than over the 50 before that, because now we're forced to have licensing and regulation, which I think absolutely is something that the industry needed.
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.799
Yeah, it was described as the Wild West.
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:08.640
Yeah, the Wild West.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:10.160
And I read about the Wild West.
00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:11.039
That was a scary place.
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:11.599
Sure.
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:12.960
I want to live there.
00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:26.160
Yeah, though there's some good stories from some of the senior managers that I was able to get mentorship from before, you know, uh 2015 and and the the good the act that brought in the responsibilities of the manager and all those other pieces.
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.079
Uh so very interesting there.
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:33.599
Um I guess one of the things from my perspective, like don't get me wrong, I love learning things.
00:24:33.680 --> 00:24:43.599
Uh, I think that's why I really gravitated towards condo management because it was like there's all these different facets of the industry that you can lean into and learn, and it's always something new.
00:24:43.680 --> 00:24:50.960
Uh, but how much of this role can realistically be taught versus learned through experience?
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:51.519
Okay.
00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.839
So you obviously can't teach the whole job.
00:24:56.000 --> 00:24:57.839
You can't teach the whole job in courses.
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:07.359
You can't replicate that board dynamic of someone of your sitting across from a president, and you're ex you explain to them that they need to do a$10,000 special assessment for each owner.
00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.599
You can't you can't replicate that very easily.
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:14.880
So there are certain things that have to be picked up by experience.
00:25:15.119 --> 00:25:20.960
I think there's more that you can do in education than we're currently doing, but you can't go all the way.
00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:27.440
At the end of the day, a lot of this industry, a lot of it will be based on that experience.
00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:33.519
But what we can do is have more of a mix between the education and the experience.
00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.640
We can have so the summer internships program.
00:25:36.799 --> 00:25:39.920
That's a way of, and by the way, I didn't make that up.
00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:42.880
Like engineering uses it, finance uses it, accounting.
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.160
Legal uses it, yeah.
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:44.480
Right.
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.039
They they do it all the time for this type of industry.
00:25:47.279 --> 00:26:00.079
So having you jump back and forth lets you get your experience and then bring it back to the class and then build on that experience and then go back out to industry and build on your classroom knowledge, right?
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:01.599
It weaves the two of them together.
00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:05.359
And that's why that's why so many different industries really like this kind of model.
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:18.799
Yeah, I could see it also really benefiting the condominium manager industry because you're going to get that feedback from those uh people in the education part of the system.
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:19.279
Yeah.
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:19.759
Right.
00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:32.319
Like uh you go you know back to school for a semester and then you come back for that summer internship, and all of a sudden you're able to identify things that don't make the the same sense as they did in the classroom.
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:32.640
Yep.
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:37.599
And as long as you have the right environment, you can now challenge these these norms.
00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:37.920
Yeah.
00:26:38.160 --> 00:26:38.400
Okay.
00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:47.119
Well, that maybe the way we do chargebacks in the industry is a little weird because financially and and on the books and how we want things recorded and all those sort of things.
00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:52.000
Maybe we should switch it up because this is how we learned it in this particular module in classroom.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.400
Right.
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:59.519
And on the other side, they come back to me in my lectures and they say, Yeah, I'm like, I tried that last week or last summer.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:00.559
That did not work.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:02.000
You gotta fix this, right?
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:05.759
So you get the academic side gets that feedback from the real world.
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:06.160
Right.
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:15.680
Yeah, I went to the board and I told them this is what um the special assessment is, and they looked at me and saying, You did not explain this well, or this is not gonna work.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:24.720
This is like right, you get that feedback going both ways, and I think that will over time create a stronger set of managers in the industry.
00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:42.720
So do you see in your like on the horizon something where the education becomes more specialized, or does it stay in that broad spectrum and you bring in that aspect to the condo, right?
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:59.759
Like, do you foresee uh an ideal world where you have a condo manager program where it's very specific to that, or is it is it more ideal to have that kind of greater uh the conversation I had with Jerry Burdeot in a previous uh episode, uh link in the show notes to go check that out.
00:27:59.920 --> 00:28:04.880
Uh, we talked about the condo manager today needs to be the generalist aspects in everything.
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:05.119
Right.
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:08.799
Whereas it would be ideal if we can get into those specialists category.
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:10.160
It's similar idea.
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:28.000
So is it do you envision it somebody with a bachelor's in business or master's in business that then you know sharpens the blade into condos or something where you have a very specific program like they've developed with the CMRAO, but a little bit more expanded upon.
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:28.559
Okay.
00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:36.799
I see the former model where you go get your broad, comprehensive education that you can apply to a lot of different things.
00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:45.519
And then you sharpen that with CMRAO specific courses, saying these are the four, five, six, ten, whatever number of courses that ends up being in the future.
00:28:45.759 --> 00:29:00.559
I see that that deeper, wider base that can be applied to lots of different walks of life, that can be applied to work in lots of different situations, and then sharpen specifically with the relevant legislation, the relevant reporting requirements of our industry.
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:01.359
Great answer.
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:02.799
I think everybody will like that one.
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:14.319
I say that having hired from lots of different places and having taught, I've taught at the university level, at the college level, and okay, I've not taught at the primary school or the high school level.
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.359
So I've taught in two different types of post-secondary.
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:21.759
And I think this is the best model for the future of the industry.
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.079
This is going to like there's the risk of hyper-specializing.
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:30.960
If you know only one thing and very well, how do you know how to do the next thing?
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:31.359
Right.
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:38.160
As I I hear this sometimes saying, oh, this is a fantastic surgeon who knows how to do this, but they don't know how to file their taxes.
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:38.559
Right.
00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:40.720
Or they don't know how a mortgage works.
00:29:40.799 --> 00:29:41.119
Right.
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:44.799
So I'm against hyper-specialization.
00:29:44.960 --> 00:29:54.240
I like having a generalist base who has picked up the specialization in their area, but still has that huge, that big base of knowledge that they can rely on.
00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:56.079
Yeah, no, completely understand that.
00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:07.119
And in conversations we had before uh today, we talked about some of the gaps in things like human resource, conflict management, uh, and finance as a broad spectrum.
00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:13.680
Uh, which one do you think is probably one of the most critical gaps that's being overlooked in the condominium management world?
00:30:13.920 --> 00:30:14.240
Okay.
00:30:14.400 --> 00:30:18.559
Um I think the conflict management is a good place that we can chat about there.
00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:25.759
It's hard, it's it's hard to train, it's hard to put you in an adversarial situation.
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:31.200
So uh it is possible and it is you can do it, but it is difficult to do well.
00:30:31.359 --> 00:30:35.599
So I I have this um professor, his name is uh Shea Duby.
00:30:35.759 --> 00:30:45.200
He's a uh former instructor of mine, he's a former teacher of mine at Queens, and he still teaches at Queens and he has a course on conflict and negotiations.
00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:51.440
And he what he does in the course is he actually pairs them up and gives them challenges of you have to negotiate this with someone else.
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:56.319
And he gives them like show notes of here's how you're gonna prepare for this, here's your persona, here's who you have to adapt.
00:30:56.720 --> 00:31:03.279
So he's trying to create that conflict and have you practice negotiating it and it's all throughout the class.
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.680
So this is a semester-long class, so you're probably out there negotiating 20 different things.
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:19.279
So you have and he builds into it conflict of like you are taking the place of a customer who has just received a 50% price rise, and you need to argue your way out of that if you can.
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:19.680
Right.
00:31:19.759 --> 00:31:21.359
So he creates adversarial situations.
00:31:21.519 --> 00:31:24.960
Like, so we could be doing more of that kind of role play and that kind of training.
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:42.240
It is, I will definitely admit, hard because you can't emulate the emotion behind it of I have a special assessment to that I've just received as an owner, and you, the manager, need to present this to me of why I have to pay for all this.
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:43.440
So it's hard to do all.
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:46.880
So, anyways, that is the conflict resolution, it's one of them.
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:54.000
The before you jump into the next part, one of the things that we had done that was successful in the past was uh mock AGMs.
00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:54.319
Yeah.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:01.119
So we have the manager uh prepare for the AGM, they put together the package, uh, and then they come to the meeting.
00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:10.880
And the season managers that have been through those uh zones, yeah, call it that, uh, are now the owners in the audience, right?
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:16.319
And so, for example, you know, we would get to a meeting and I would make a motion right at the beginning.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:17.119
Can that happen?
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:17.839
Can you do that?
00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:21.359
I'd I'd make a motion that the board has to leave the room, right?
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:24.559
Things where it takes you off of that off the prepared script.
00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:27.519
Yeah, that's that's a wonderful thing to mention.
00:32:27.599 --> 00:32:29.920
I've done the same thing now that I think back about it.
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:36.559
And the first I say you're gonna, by the time you get to your first AGM, you will have done 10 mock AGMs with me.
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.480
The first one, I'm gonna be very nice to you.
00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:41.200
I'm just gonna listen politely and follow your instructions.
00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:47.119
And then over the next 10, as you get better and better at this, I'm gonna start getting more and more pissed off of an owner.
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:50.720
I'm gonna start throwing issues, I'm gonna start doing all these kind of things.
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:53.279
So the training and that it works great.
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:54.000
It really does.
00:32:54.079 --> 00:33:15.759
And I've gotten that feedback from my team saying, but I do think that it would be nice that if there was something in the um whether it's in the CMRIO uh courses uh or in some you know more formal positions where there is that sort of uh pressure, because that is probably one of the more challenging aspects of the role.
00:33:16.079 --> 00:33:23.440
Uh, you know, I say a lot of times, well, we all say it, but whether it's good or not, is that you know the job would be a heck of a lot easier if there just wasn't people involved.
00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:23.759
Right.
00:33:23.839 --> 00:33:24.160
Yeah, yeah.
00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:25.039
It was just buildings.
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:25.599
Correct.
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:32.240
It was just, you know, the mechanical systems, the finances, you know, one plus one equals two, except for when you need a special assessment.
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.640
That would make things uh a lot easier.
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:38.720
But the reason that we stay in the industry is the people.
00:33:38.880 --> 00:33:45.200
Uh, you know, I like working with the board of directors that are trying to better their communities, really striving for that.
00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:54.799
You know, I have my list of owners that I really enjoy having conversations about their day-to-day, you know, knowing about their families and becoming part of those community uh pieces.
00:33:55.119 --> 00:34:08.719
Um I guess like one of the things we talked about like not getting into you know hyper specialists, and I would agree there.
00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:14.079
I mean, if I only did one thing and and forgot about all the others, it would become a bit of a problem.
00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:31.199
Um how can the management companies abroad, because each one's gonna have its own way of doing things, uh take what we've talked about today and apply it starting not as soon as tomorrow, but but next week or next morning.
00:34:31.519 --> 00:34:31.760
Exactly.
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:33.199
So the day after tomorrow.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:33.920
Yeah, yeah.
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:42.719
So having a going through what does it take to have the skills to be, let's say, a regional manager.
00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:43.599
Work from there.
00:34:43.760 --> 00:34:46.320
Your GLs should be trained to be regionals at all times.
00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:47.599
You should be training them to do that.
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:53.039
Your limited licenses should be getting the training to become GLs, and your admins should be getting the next level above.
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:56.639
Everyone should always be aiming for that next level above.
00:34:56.880 --> 00:34:59.599
So we should be always providing that training.
00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:08.079
And it's not always the training of this is what you have on your plate today, let's deal with it, but more of a this is the theory of an AGM, right?
00:35:08.239 --> 00:35:12.400
This is finance, this is how you read a budget and how you prepare a budget.
00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:19.920
So we should be offering this type of training to those who don't need it yet, those who will need it a couple of years from now.
00:35:20.079 --> 00:35:23.599
So by the time they actually get to it, they already know how to do it.
00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:30.159
So I'm imagining an annual calendar of in January's, I'm always teaching about this, right?
00:35:30.480 --> 00:35:32.719
In the summers, I'm always teaching about budget, right?
00:35:32.800 --> 00:35:36.400
So have like an annual calendar, and there's turnover in our industry.
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:41.599
So you can offer these things once a year, and every year you're gonna have someone new who needs to learn these things.
00:35:41.840 --> 00:35:52.320
So it's more of an internal training calendar where whoever wants to, or you can mandate that everyone takes it, shows up and starts taking these kind of courses through you.
00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:56.880
So you're gonna run them through the very through the process of how to create a budget, how to create a this.
00:35:57.119 --> 00:36:00.960
Uh, a couple months before AGM season, you start running everyone through.
00:36:01.039 --> 00:36:02.800
Let's do AGM refresher again.
00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:09.360
And those who already are very good at it, they still have to come, but now you give them a specialist role.
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:09.679
Right.
00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:13.280
You're gonna be a board member or you're gonna be an adversarial owner, right?
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:25.440
So that constant annual training calendar has, and that's how we keep skills modern, that's how we keep skills fresh, that's how we remind those who haven't done an AGM in six months of how to do AGMs.
00:36:25.760 --> 00:36:27.280
No, that's that's very good.
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:28.159
Um, okay.
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:42.159
So when we talked about uh, you know, your your your past life, your past experiences, and how you kind of grew your first kind of management company up through acquisitions and then eventually sold off to become a father, you know, very exciting part of life.
00:36:42.320 --> 00:36:45.280
Uh what experiences did that teach you about the industry?
00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:50.559
Like obviously, by you know, having your own and then acquiring others, you would have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly.
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:51.039
Yes.
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:55.360
I one of the things I learned is that there are so many different operating models, right?
00:36:55.679 --> 00:37:06.800
There are uh models where you have like a more of a community type of vibe where um you have managers working together as a team, where you have more flexible vacations.
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.400
I know your firm is like that, where you have a support team.
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:14.880
There are those who are individuals where you are your own ship.
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:16.960
If you don't do it, your ship sinks.
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:17.679
That's it, right?
00:37:17.760 --> 00:37:19.119
So there's that side of it.
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:24.800
There's there are companies that specialize in very large properties with on-site teams.
00:37:24.960 --> 00:37:27.760
There are companies that specialize in portfolio management, right?
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:29.920
So there's so many different ways of working it.
00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:36.320
There's so many different ways of setting up a work order ticketing system or setting up your accounting office.
00:37:36.400 --> 00:37:37.039
How do they do it?
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:38.719
Do you have the managers do most of their accounting?
00:37:38.800 --> 00:37:39.440
Do you have an accounting?
00:37:39.920 --> 00:37:47.360
So there's so many different ways of piecing together a management business, and lots of them are viable.
00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:50.719
There's lots of different ways of building a business in this industry.
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:55.519
So I realized that as I was looking and doing the due diligence on these acquisitions.
00:37:55.599 --> 00:37:59.119
So, like, huh, they operate in a completely different way than we do.
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:00.480
Can I buy this?
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:10.239
And one thing I learned very quickly is it's not so much this the it's not so much the how the company is now.
00:38:10.320 --> 00:38:11.760
It's more what is the potential.
00:38:12.000 --> 00:38:17.760
So if your managers were to all leave, do you have a system to bring in new ones?
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:18.000
Right?
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:19.119
Do you have that continuity?
00:38:19.280 --> 00:38:20.559
Do you have the systems in place?
00:38:20.719 --> 00:38:23.519
But it's also so it's not just the systems, it's also the managers.
00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:27.599
So these managers can they adapt to a new way of doing accounting?
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:32.000
If I give them a new piece of software, are they just gonna freeze and fall over?
00:38:32.559 --> 00:38:36.079
Or are they gonna say, okay, cool, give us the training, I'm happy to do it.
00:38:36.239 --> 00:38:36.400
Right.
00:38:36.480 --> 00:38:38.480
Are they gonna adapt and make the changes?
00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:38.800
Right.
00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:40.239
Or are they gonna get stuck in the mud?
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:40.719
Yes.
00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:46.400
So there's there's the the business itself, the company itself, and then there's the individuals within that business.
00:38:46.480 --> 00:38:52.880
You have to look at both of them because if one of those two is off, you have a big problem on your hands when you're looking at buying it.
00:38:53.039 --> 00:39:04.159
So then there's also the strategy of uh which businesses are trying to grow um in one city only and have a high concentration, which ones are trying to spread across with a lower concentration on each city.
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:05.519
Where are you doing why?
00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.199
How are you keeping your costs in life?
00:39:07.360 --> 00:39:14.239
So there's it's such a fascinating industry because there's so many different ways of running a business properly.
00:39:14.559 --> 00:39:21.119
Yeah, I guess I I never I knew that, but I never really thought of it from that perspective.
00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:21.519
Right.
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:30.880
Because something like uh, you know, a restaurant, yes, they're gonna have different operational things, but a lot of that is going to be copy and paste to be in that successful aspect, right?
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:39.760
There's so many restaurants that you can, you know, uh bar rescue or whatever, the guy who comes in and just okay, copy and paste this, and then we'll fix some of those issues.
00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:53.760
But you're right, in the the condominium management industry, especially because it is still pretty young, uh, hasn't really uh knocked off some of that, like I don't want to say dead weight, but some of the inefficiencies that may exist.
00:39:54.159 --> 00:40:03.920
Uh, what did you find was one of the harder things when you would go through that kind of growth and the acquisition and and trying to make some changes that you thought were perhaps more efficient, more cost effective?
00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.039
Uh, what were some of the the hardest things to overcome there?
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:11.039
One of the hardest challenges was inappropriate pricing.
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:18.960
When you have a corporation that's paying 20 bucks per door, but they are commanding$40 per door services.
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:30.159
And you have to look at them and you have to say, I either have to raise your costs or you have to find somewhere else because I can't possibly run this business and giving you the service that you expect.
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:36.000
So looking at this, and the board is entirely nice, they're entirely reasonable, they're great people.
00:40:36.639 --> 00:40:39.599
They're just getting more service than they're paying for.
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:44.559
And if my business is to provide you that service, you have to pay for it appropriately.
00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:52.559
So that's one of the hardest things when you're looking at a business and you have this owner who's looking to sell their business, and they say, I think it's worth this much.
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.039
And you look at it and say, No, it's not.
00:40:55.440 --> 00:41:00.320
It's not worth that much because you, the owner, are working 80 hour weeks.
00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:00.719
Right.
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.039
I can't bring in someone at your salary.
00:41:03.280 --> 00:41:07.440
Yeah, you're in that treadmill stage of just constantly being able to just go, go, go.
00:41:07.599 --> 00:41:07.760
Right.
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.559
You're not looking at it from a scalable aspect.
00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:15.760
Uh, you're just in that kind of I don't want to say mon pa, but you're in that very beginner stage.
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:18.719
You're in that science where you're doing everything yourself.
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:18.880
Yeah.
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:21.280
Looking at this, and and I'm running the numbers on this.
00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:29.199
And I said, if you were to leave and I have to hire two people to replace you, the profit that you think you're making disappears.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:29.599
Right.
00:41:29.840 --> 00:41:31.519
This is now not a profitable business.
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:33.119
Why would I buy it from you?
00:41:33.360 --> 00:41:42.000
So there's the acquisitions I had, which is about seven, and there's the due diligence I did on 20-something businesses, yeah, where you look at it as like, this is not a business.
00:41:42.159 --> 00:41:46.239
This is this is a job that you own as a very hard job.
00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:46.559
Yeah.
00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:47.599
Because you're not big.
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:59.519
You know, when we we talk about this quite often uh from the manager's perspective of um really identifying the role as a condominium manager as a profession.
00:41:59.679 --> 00:42:07.519
A lot of times there's this stigma of, you know, it's just property management, you know, uh glorified superintendent, things like that.
00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:10.400
Like you're gonna hear me say that a lot of times on this podcast.
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:15.760
But um when the legislation started to come into place, we talked about the Wild West.
00:42:16.159 --> 00:42:17.119
Wild West is gone.
00:42:17.199 --> 00:42:17.360
Yeah.
00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:27.199
There are due diligence markers that we need to hit, and we need to make sure that you as a corporation are hitting, whether that's compliance, uh fiduciary responsibilities, maintenance.
00:42:27.360 --> 00:42:36.719
You know, there were those uh horrific uh incidences down south in the states where the condos, you know, cease to exist because they weren't being taken care of properly.
00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:50.320
The skill set that's required that requires some education to get there uh needs to be treated as a profession, which means that the time that I'm spending on your condo is no longer letting contractor one, two, three in the door.
00:42:50.480 --> 00:42:50.719
Right.
00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:51.679
That's not what I'm doing.
00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:51.920
No.
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.039
Maybe some days I go and I and I and I'm definitely providing access and doing some of those pieces.
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:06.880
But the professional aspect that I need to bring to these communities to protect them is definitely undervalued.
00:43:06.960 --> 00:43:08.480
It's something we talk about all the time.
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:18.400
And I agree that uh condos, board members, owners, the industry as a whole should be looking at their management team.
00:43:18.480 --> 00:43:21.360
And if it's not the right team, switch it up by all means.
00:43:21.519 --> 00:43:27.039
Um, but looking at their management team as a resource to utilize the same way they do with legal counsel, right?
00:43:27.119 --> 00:43:33.920
Uh or their engineering firms or or you know, those specialized contractors that know roofs better than anybody else.
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:50.079
Um why do you think, and and if you don't have an answer, that's okay, but because I'm springing this one on you for sure, is that why do you think that condos have been undervaluing the manager to this day?
00:43:50.400 --> 00:43:59.519
I I think you your your opening sentence uh made this clear is that there's a conflation of the super and the admin and the manager.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:04.960
So when I'm teaching, I get one, I have one class that I teach on property management.
00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:08.000
The first slide is a picture of uh Mr.
00:44:08.159 --> 00:44:11.119
Trigger, if you watch Friends, or Remy, if you watch New Girl.
00:44:11.840 --> 00:44:14.159
That is what people think of as a property manager.
00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:15.840
That's not a property manager.
00:44:15.920 --> 00:44:19.360
That's one stereotype and two of a superintendent.
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:26.400
So uh uh of of someone who is just on your site to fix keys, open doors, let in contractors.
00:44:26.559 --> 00:44:28.079
These are two different jobs.
00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:32.960
So we as an industry need to focus on differentiating ourselves.
00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:38.079
So this is why, right, on your business cards, you put in GL.
00:44:38.159 --> 00:44:38.719
Yeah, right.
00:44:38.880 --> 00:44:40.800
You put in the fact that you have your license.
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:49.599
This is why we as an industry need to be educating our owners of the training involved in becoming a general licensee.
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:51.679
So we need to be pushing on that.
00:44:51.760 --> 00:44:57.440
And we as an industry need to be elevating our managers and showing that no, this is someone specialized.
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:02.239
This is why they need to they can't provide service next Friday because they're at a conference.
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:08.000
And we're by the way, we will give you service in a different way with a backup system, but our GLs need to be at a conference, right?
00:45:08.079 --> 00:45:08.159
Yeah.
00:45:08.719 --> 00:45:11.039
Continuing to learn, continuing to start with that skill set.
00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:21.199
So there's a big thing that we need to do as an industry to educate and elevate our owners about what a manager is and what they do.
00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:23.840
And this also feeds into my teaching.
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:27.840
When I could say, no, I'm not advocating for you guys to become supers.
00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:37.360
I'm advocating for you guys to become licensed managers with education requirements, with continuing education requirements, with legal requirements.
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:48.719
So it's very much a us presenting ourselves as an industry and us presenting ourselves as individual managers as being something different.
00:45:49.039 --> 00:45:49.280
Yeah.
00:45:49.360 --> 00:45:52.000
So I want to touch on the individual manager as well.
00:45:52.159 --> 00:46:01.920
I think that it's very important, like for those that are listening to the podcast, uh, that are, you know, perhaps board members and they're going, like, oh my goodness, like, you know, we're gonna push this.
00:46:02.000 --> 00:46:12.000
If the fees on managers are gonna go up, and then they're just trying to become, you know, lawyers when they're not lawyers, etc., is that the individual manager needs to take some of that accountability as well.
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:12.880
Yeah, absolutely.
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:17.599
In in the sense of elevating the the product is what I'll call it.
00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:28.960
Uh is that, you know, I as a manager, uh when I go into a board meeting, an AGM, heck, when I'm meeting with a contractor, I have a sense of responsibility.
00:46:29.119 --> 00:46:48.079
Uh, I have a sense of due diligence and making sure that I'm doing the best for that corporation to the best of my ability, and trying to provide a level of service that's above what would be the the preconceived notions of what a superintendent, uh, what the preconceived notions would be of a condominium manager.
00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:53.920
A lot of times we talk about it to, you know, our team members internally, and I talk about it to colleagues like you're a condominium manager.
00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:57.039
When somebody calls you a property manager, politely correct them.
00:46:57.119 --> 00:46:58.320
I'm a condominium manager.
00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:00.159
I'm not a proper man, licensed condominium manager.
00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:02.079
I'm a licensed condominium manager.
00:47:02.239 --> 00:47:21.199
Uh, you know, I I agree that there needs to be this industry-wide uh pickup of the manager and and provide that level of professionalism to that, but I want to be very clear that it's also up to the individual manager to to treat each scenario and each owner with a level of respect.
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:21.519
Right.
00:47:21.679 --> 00:47:29.440
That that you are not, you know, you didn't get in this profession to be able to uh lord over anybody.
00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:36.079
It's to be, you know, the the forever professional that's there to help every single person.
00:47:36.239 --> 00:47:36.400
Right.
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:42.639
One of the things that we say to our clients all the time is that I am here to help every single owner the same way that I would help a board member.
00:47:42.800 --> 00:47:46.159
And I tell my boards this if an owner calls me and says, How do I get rid of the board?
00:47:46.239 --> 00:47:50.400
I will tell them the step-by-step process on how they get rid of the board because I'm there to support every single owner.
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:51.199
Right on the case.
00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:51.840
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:53.280
Not just the board of the very good.
00:47:53.360 --> 00:47:53.840
No, I love that.
00:47:54.559 --> 00:48:00.400
But every manager, my opinion, uh needs to take that same responsibility to their client.
00:48:00.639 --> 00:48:00.880
Yeah.
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:09.679
And I think of other ways that we can do this in terms of as an organization to provide some of the, let's say, the evidence or the support structure for it.
00:48:09.840 --> 00:48:18.000
So it could be as little as uh having headshots on your website of your GLs and saying this is their licensing and this is their training, this is their education, right?
00:48:18.159 --> 00:48:18.880
Focus on that.
00:48:19.360 --> 00:48:28.800
When you are introducing a new manager to a board, your regional or your president should be coming in and instead of them just showing up and saying, hi guys, I manage your building now, right?
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:32.239
We should say, I'd love to introduce you to this is Joshua.
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:34.559
Joshua's been with our firm for this many years.
00:48:34.719 --> 00:48:36.239
He's a general licensee.
00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.400
This is his experience, this is education, right?
00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:46.079
It needs to be warm, the crowd needs to be warmed up a little bit to understand who they're dealing with and who they have the honor of working with.
00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:52.960
So there's there's certain things that we can do as an industry or as individual management companies to just support that.
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:55.920
And even training up, how do you sit?
00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:56.159
Right?
00:48:56.239 --> 00:48:58.800
Do you sit slouched over like this or do you sit like this?
00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:05.679
Are you dressed in your PJ hoodie or are you dressed in a nice polo or a nice shirt?
00:49:05.840 --> 00:49:06.719
Are you how are you?
00:49:06.880 --> 00:49:07.599
Business casual is fine.
00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:08.800
Yeah, business casual is fine.
00:49:08.880 --> 00:49:11.280
You know, if you got that hoity-toity client, then throw on a jacket.
00:49:11.440 --> 00:49:11.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:49:12.000 --> 00:49:15.760
This this right now, this polo is my default of that's right.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:16.639
This is my go-to shirt.
00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:17.920
Yeah, this is the go-to shirt.
00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:18.559
This is the go-to.
00:49:18.800 --> 00:49:19.920
I think I have seven copies of this.
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:20.719
Yeah, exactly.
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:21.119
Exactly.
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:27.599
So some sort of standard around how do you dress, how do you speak, how do you present yourself, right?
00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:34.960
Having that, and these are the intangibles, and these are one of the things that I go back to business school teaches you, right?
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.639
I kid you not, I had a class on how to shake hands.
00:49:39.039 --> 00:49:40.719
I had a class on how do you shake hands, right?
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.199
You take the web of your hand, you aim it at the web of their hand, right?
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:44.320
And like that.
00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:44.719
Right.
00:49:44.960 --> 00:49:48.880
So these are like the intangibles of being a professional, right?
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:49.760
How do you wear a suit?
00:49:49.840 --> 00:49:51.119
How do you tie a tie, right?
00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:55.519
Which button do you put, oh, do you for the jacket on your jacket, right?
00:49:55.599 --> 00:50:08.320
Yeah, business school teaches all these things, and for four years, they're giving each other presentations or giving me the professional presentations, and getting a rundown from the the the professional, you know, the teacher, the the lecturer, the professor.
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:15.440
I I literally had a professor going to me and saying, Michael, both of your buttons are are both of the buttons on your jacket are buttoned.
00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:16.960
The bottom one should stay unbuttoned.
00:50:17.039 --> 00:50:17.440
Here's why.
00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:17.840
Right.
00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:19.840
So intangibles, right?
00:50:19.920 --> 00:50:29.920
The things that are not wearing your jacket properly does not mean you're a professional, but most professionals will know how to wear their jacket properly.
00:50:30.159 --> 00:50:32.000
So they are associated together.
00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:36.000
And these are social cues that also come to, you know, downstream.
00:50:36.079 --> 00:50:47.599
And as you, you know, when I go into, for example, an AGM, like I want to make sure that the owners feel confident that the the management team supporting their community has an understanding of how to do certain things.
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:55.599
So yeah, I show up, you know, proper, I'm there for the meeting, you know, I'm mining my P's and Q's, uh, you know, always in that professional stance.
00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:11.840
So I I think that if there was a mechanism, if that's you know, the bachelor's in in business or master's, et cetera, uh, and that that's a skill set that can be then transferable into the industry to elevate the professional, I think that that would be uh fantastic.
00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:17.920
Um, listen, I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I'm sure that there are many other tangents that we can go down.
00:51:18.159 --> 00:51:18.320
Sure.
00:51:18.880 --> 00:51:28.719
But we we also want to respect the listener, and I don't want them to have to feel like this is uh, you know, uh the four-hour podcast uh that uh some others do on the the world.
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.760
Uh CCI is is always trying to bring out education.
00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:35.199
You know, that's the big mandate of CCI, especially Eastern Ontario's chapter.
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:44.800
We're really trying to get the people that understand condos, understand the industry to you, the audience, and and have an opportunity to to engage and get some some comments there.
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:53.440
So please feel free to uh comment on the video, let us know some stuff that you'd like to talk about, whether there's something that I should have uh brought up to Michael that I didn't get a chance to.
00:51:53.519 --> 00:51:55.920
We can always you know bring them back for future conversations.
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:58.320
For those that are listening, Michael, how can they find you?
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:00.880
They can find me on website trendota.ca.
00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:02.239
I bought my own domain name.
00:52:02.639 --> 00:52:04.559
So I can do that, or find me on LinkedIn.
00:52:04.719 --> 00:52:06.800
I'm the only Michael Trinoda on the planet.
00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:10.239
So if you search that into LinkedIn, you will find me.
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:10.960
Wonderful.
00:52:11.039 --> 00:52:11.920
Thank you very much for your time.
00:52:12.079 --> 00:52:12.480
Appreciate it.
00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:13.599
Joshua, thank you so much.
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:14.239
It's been a pleasure.
00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:19.119
Thanks for tuning into the Commando Pod, your source for all things commando in Eastern Ontario.
00:52:19.360 --> 00:52:24.719
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