00:00:01
Speaker 1: The dialogue with Clement Mariela. It's not just another roundtable discussion.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: Let's walk the talk on save A notes on our thirst day dialogue this morning, I want us to have a conversation about culture, the evolution of culture over time, and.
00:00:20
Speaker 3: I want you center this more around your own experiences and your own choices, around how you've practiced culture. How do you balance cultural evolution and preservation, whether you're talking lobola or initiation schools, or memoral ancestral veneration, or any any ritual perhaps that you practice, how do you practice it today compared to how you used to practice that before? How far has culture allowed how far is it allowed culture to evolve? And at what point do we cross the line? Because culture is often described as this living, dynamic force. But you've got mostly the younger generations now that are redefining cultural practices and new spaces and in their own expression. But critics are saying that you can't tailor make culture. And I've always believed that culture is not static. It evolves as societies change and societies evolve. In fact, if culture remains rigid, then I think we risk becoming it becoming irrelevant, and we risk alienating the younger generations who live in this fast changing world. And I gave you an example Earlia of for instance, let's take the Initiation school, right, They've begun integrating modern health and safety standards while still maintaining and retaining spiritual significance, which shows that evolution can preserve meaning while promoting well being. So why should we draw the line between adapting traditions to fit modern society and preserving them in their original form to maintain cultural identity? How much flexibility should you, as an individual have in shaping your own cultural identities? You can give us a call on OH one one eighty three or seven oh two. The what'sapup line is oh seven two seven two one seven o two. Share your thoughts please, because some say when you modernize culture, then you run the risk of diluting it.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: Is that the view that you hold. Give us a call or send us a what's up? Voice?
00:02:27
Speaker 3: Notes, Let me introduce you to my two guests this morning. We've got Muso Carsa, who is a cultural practitioner a musician as well, joining us on the line. Mister Causa, thank you so much for making time.
00:02:38
Speaker 4: Good morning, and to the listeners, of the seven O two.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: We also have to Mukoko who is a cultural expert, languages and literature specialists and translator also joining this chair. Thank you for making time for us.
00:02:55
Speaker 5: Good morning, Good morning gentlemen the general. Good morning, michaeled the other side.
00:03:04
Speaker 1: Because let me start with you.
00:03:07
Speaker 3: Culture is often described as a living, dynamic force. What does this mean in a modern South African context?
00:03:19
Speaker 4: I think any culture is the subject to change. However, their peculiarity with the South African culture as evolution is not parallel. It is divating because of the arrival maybe of other cultures that has devoured over the years. For instance, if you look at a memory that you mentioned earlier, it can be that if you are in a performer member of our daughter and it has to coincide with the graduation. Graduation has nothing to do with memod So now if we evolve like that, we are divating. It's not part off with the logic and the history of that which we call is.
00:04:04
Speaker 3: M So, mister mcco, where do we then draw that line? How can we balance the evolution of culture with the preservation of culture?
00:04:23
Speaker 6: I would say that.
00:04:26
Speaker 5: There's no way in which culture would stay stated and made many, many practices which come into being, especially in the form of whatever our society tends to learn from. Because in the first instance, there are two things which we need to have in mind. Firstly, we have got those things which wouldn't naturally have to let go, maybe because of the fact that they may not be progressive enough to sustain us. And at the same time we would have things which we must protect, things which we've got to we must cut against foregoing them, that is, leaving them into for forgetting about them, because those things are what we are, things which make us sustain and at the same time make us more progressive, because indeed, if you don't grow, you grow less. In other words, it's good that some aspects we have got to let go because of the fact that they are not consistent with those things which we hold it dear m m. Yeah, that's that's how I can put it.
00:06:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, mister Causa. How because there are some people who sort of criticize, especially the more younger generations that are trying to redefine cultural practices in their new spaces. They want to find their own expressions of culture. But other people say, well, you can tailor culture per se it's either you are for it and you practice things in the way they're supposed to be practiced because there's a reason why they were practiced that way, or you completely step out and if you do something that fuses too many things, then do not call it culture. So what I suppose, what I'm asking is at what point are we crossing the line? And at what point as we appreciate this evolution of culture, do we acknowledge and appreciate that things may change and there are certain things that we may let go of.
00:07:04
Speaker 1: As mister Mococo said.
00:07:07
Speaker 4: I think in my view, in the world of heritage, in the world of culture, nothing goes to its because history comes as an intervention to record events more like the falling of their leaves, causing humors. You know, it's something that we can from time to time speak about. But those cultures are born of history. History now is now a thing of more like what you call the musiologies, an instruments where things are kept for heritage. Later certain cultures are unable to be practiced, they will be in the books we'll read about them. This is why we wear a certain way on certain times, meaning there's no way that we can go back and prachice our culture exactly like our forefathers. However, we need to ask ourselves, what is it a metaphysics ideologically that we have left for our kids that comes in a form of knowledge of self. Our kids do not know theirselves, and us as parents we go around and say, oh, law very said, oh look oh, But even their parents we're saying the same thing. It's a vicious cycle simply because we haven't been able to safeguard our culture. Look at the museums that are built. Who who were the architectures of that today in the in the modern day. How are we saying through all maybe the history of forteen ninety seven, sixteen sixty two, eighteen oh seven, eighteen thirty seven, eighteen seventy nine, these battles just mentioned a few or nineteen seventy six, how do we sit down and recollect our memorials so that they are now being consumed in the rhythm of the moment of now, in.
00:08:56
Speaker 3: The rhythm of the moment of now. I like, so, mister can make sure I understand you. Do you think then that sometimes we're too emotional about culture, for instance, having the issue of language that we're too touchy even about language because culture, I mean language is a core piece of culture.
00:09:15
Speaker 4: Yes, language is intrinsic to the expression of culture, teaching, et cetera. However, people even from the olden days, they used to wonder, and that's how languages got to evolve. That's how even semantic applicabilities of certain ways got to evolve. You look at even the simes like tabet and Tabete and tabete those they fall under dental cliques as soon as they move. When certain people are born in a certain area where a new language is spoken, they tend to miss pronouns. Look at a mango who left in eighteen twenty years with socialghan. Later they're calling themselves and go only people because that's a morphological behavior found in these words. Because bag where they're speaking, it's laws. Then they missed one on to go on. So, but we never made time for this being uma museum in the educational system in terms of how one can just get to understand themselves easily.
00:10:18
Speaker 3: So, mister mcco, there are some people who want to tailor fit, so to speak, how they practice that culture and they want to express it their own way. I do remember someone in in the where my family, where I come from, who was about to pay lobola? And he didn't necessarily want the uncles and the aunts to be part of the negotiations as culture would dictate. And he said, I just I just want my older brother, my mom, and my dad to go and negotiate lobola for me, for for him. That's how he wanted to practice that culture of the two families coming together. I'm using that example because I'm trying to figure out where do we then draw the line, because some in the family felt, no, if you want to do this, you've got to do it. The ancles and the ants are an intricate peace in the expression of this cultural activity, in the expression of this unification of the two families. So are they certain things, mister Mucoco, you think, okay, that's untouchable or must there be flexibility for people to decide how to express that culture. Still keep the essence of it, but do it in a way that makes sense to them, makes them happy.
00:11:39
Speaker 5: Indeed, the Germans, that's already say it, or let's disunderstood the concept of term cultures called terminus, with terms such as society, language, belief systems, and altitudes and all other kind of of of ways of life which made which made us to be what we are. It's true that we we we must got against those fasionable kinds of intrusions into our culture. But on the other hand, let us make a point that the young ones and those who perhaps are easily taken over by other subcultures, fashionable cultures. Lets let us teach them, let us encourage them that those which we suggest made us what we are today. Let's emphasis to them that yes, if you don't grow you grow less. Then let's let's let's has encourage our museums. Let us encourage.
00:12:58
Speaker 4: Our, our, our our cultural.
00:13:04
Speaker 5: Coming together to promote all those which are progressive and at the same time those which doesn't make us pieces of paper flying all over the show, not understanding where they come from and at the same time not expressing and at the same time sustaining what indeed is our treasure.
00:13:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, mister Casa, the question, then, I suppose is how do we preserve and maybe not preserve, but let me say this, how do we record then the true essence of how culture is practiced even now or maybe from back then. Because I think, as you say, as we evolve, and at some point some of us are going to start losing that you spoke about museums. I mean, I've been to some of your lectures around the Battle of Isandra, and those things help us understand more about us and where we come from. But how intentional can we be, then South Africans to record those so that at least there's a level of preservation of thoughts. Because the older generationlubay a Hamber, they pass away and they live with that knowledge, and we have not been interested enough to learn about the way of doing things, and that way that culture starts leaving us bit by bit.
00:14:31
Speaker 4: I'm just happy with the comment from my fellow guest around us collectively saying, oh, maybe this aspect of this culture is no longer maybe serving us as a nation, instead of saying, oh white people, hey, they're devouring our cultures. I want to go back to the idea of illobal and say, how maybe if one can say exercising democracy men in my household, yes I will still practice illobo or but traditionally in my household, this is how we're gonna do it. But these are the these are the elements that need to be understood because evolutionary, before people got to have what you call the hunter's era up to the Akraalian culture to the industrial as culture that you are living in today, they pull used to wander and there were there was no culture. They would just live and they would have kids living under the caves and wonder as they maybe they are normal fruits or they are no more animals. So now, but as the brain evolved, they began to come up with these cultures and say, if us as human have evolved from the vegetative aspect of our soul to the animals up to the rational soul, we need to come up with what we call illobo m Even in the Bible you just also do these illustrations that are historical. So but now let us go back and check now in your character individual, for instance, in this is zoo, I would say, why people who have to pay ilbalo? What is it that is needed from these animals? You would say, okay, three cows. Even the song abs to the hardily mozard little too, I'm tartoo fast. Now we understand the goody. This thing was not about the transitional aspect of it. Now you understand the duty in this cows. One of the cows maybe is going to pay homage to Mom, one is for Barbara, and maybe the other one is for the ceremony to happen. You say, not all of these elocus and evolutions that are faulted that we have tried to fit our cultures in. So what I'm saying is, once we understand these aspects, and now why, oh my loom bit they are so important because one day, if it's sociologically you have a problem with his child, I mean with his wife of yours, and maybe they're issues of abuse, misunderstanding. Who is gonna be there a social worker? Not not? Not all the time. We need now to say how do we recraft our society with a view to move forward. But if we say we're gonna evolve with our cultures, let us check what was the historical background before we focus on a seeker and destroy the background.
00:17:31
Speaker 3: Mister mccuco, maybe the same question to you as well around just preserving and because you know, I remember there was a time I was trying to I spoke to a relative, a cousin of mine, and I said, you know, while we still have our uncles, especially the older older uncles, we need to start, you know, recording them when we we must make time, bring the camera and just record them for the purposes of just preserving the information about the family tree, but also information about our culture, so that because we can see that we're slowly, slowly, slowly losing that and not through it being modernized. But there are certain things we don't understand when things happen. We still don't know, okay, what's to be done here when there's a funeral? Us, the younger generation don't even know what are the certain things to do? What kind of food do you do you cook? How do you go about grieving? Et cetera, et cetera. What ways do you think people can try and preserve that knowledge? Because the older generations still have some of it, as evolved as it may be, and many of us really don't understand much about our culture. How can we go about preserving that.
00:18:48
Speaker 5: I revenged by my college the other side set the most full.
00:18:53
Speaker 4: And it's only upon us.
00:18:55
Speaker 5: From now, from now or as from this unit, that it's an every femily made and take a decision that it's an every time when there is a cultural do at home. Let us just in one way or another, make a point that every aspect of that of that mugative is recorded, and at the same time it must be reviewed all the time, not necessarily with the mugative for mahadi or for for the capolo or and that type of thing. Let it's an every aspect of our culture be recorded m HM in its entire so that we, as time progresses, make a point that we we we emphasized to the young ones that hey, this is now a near thing which was on its way out now is an insane Let's explain to them that this is important. And this will perhaps those of us who still who are supposed to be and are still believing in ancestry. This would bring us luck. I think we need. It should be each and every family, each group, each society that will sit down and to the same time make a point that we record and at the same time make a point that geological geological sketches are made of each and every group, extended family, lineage, and so on that purpose, I think would strengthen these cultures. Some of these aspects which are fading away, overtaken by those which we note quite sure whether they're taking us to hell or they're teaching us to the place of Manna and so on.
00:21:09
Speaker 3: It's now eleven thirty and I'm interested to hear how you are trying to record how things have been practiced before are being practiced now, so that you're able to pick up the baton, so to speak. Because a lot of us, especially our generation there some of us don't really understand much about culture. So when there's a funeral or when your child goes to initiation schools, you don't even know where to begin. And I wonder how you are trying to record that so that when your child goes to initiation school or if you believe in that, or when there is a funeral or where there is a wedding and you still want to practice culture you believe in it, then you know that the that they said things that are supposed to be done, because we're losing that valuable information with our grandfathers, our grandmothers, our great aunts, uncles as they pass away. So how are you recording that? Share your thoughts with us, give us a call us and us what's a voice?
00:22:16
Speaker 5: Noted the dialogue with Clementla.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: It's not just another roundtable discussion. Let's walk the talk on saven O two.
00:22:25
Speaker 3: Twenty three minutes before twelve o'clock. We're talking about the evolution of culture and how we can balance cultural evolution with preservation. Whatever you practice, whether it's culture you practice when there's lobola, when there's initiations, callsmulo or maybe ancestral veneration, whatever it is that you practice, how far is culture allowed to evolve? And at what point do we across the line. And I've got some whatspup messages coming through, In fact that there's one I want to read because I think it really just encapsulates what we've been trying to say. Because you've got on the one side, people who believe that, of course culture is going to evolve as we evolve as a society. It's not static, right, it's a living, dynamic force. But you've got other people who say you can't tailor make and tailor fit culture.
00:23:26
Speaker 1: Then the minute you include.
00:23:28
Speaker 3: Some modern things, or you allow modernity to influence how you practice it, then you've walked away. But here's a listen to what this listener says on the WhatsApp line. You says, Clemon, my issue with culture is that it leaves little room for autonomy. As soon as you disagree with cultural practices because logically they don't make sense in your life, then you're labeled by society as lost and seen in a negative light. It becomes a problem for everyone else and not the person who has made that, the same who doesn't see themselves as being lost or having lost anything and is content with their life and who they are. Ultimately, it's down to believes which we don't necessarily all buy into. Let those who want to preserve cultures do that without shaming those for whom it is not important. That's a message there from anonymous. You can send yours as well on one one eighty three or seven oh two. What's that's What's up line? Otherwise call us on O one one eighty three or seven oh two. In fact, let's go straight to your what'sapps and then I'll get my guests Muso Kosa and so Mukoko to respond to some of them.
00:24:35
Speaker 7: Good morning Clement and your guests. Interesting topic and did I think the struggle between relevance and identity.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: Is a major one.
00:24:55
Speaker 8: I believe there are things that are practiced that have spiritual reasoning that cannot be tainted regardless of.
00:25:08
Speaker 9: What generation we are in or how revolutionary we are.
00:25:13
Speaker 1: And I also believe there are things that.
00:25:17
Speaker 8: Can be.
00:25:20
Speaker 7: Switched up or changed to fit in relevance to a particular generation.
00:25:31
Speaker 10: It's the maas you see a cultural practice is on this issue of lobola, particularly for black people, it is on another level. I'm not quite sure if maybe it is going to be even correct if it becomes regulated. There are so many things that need to be addressed in the area because of in the near future that the whole character of practice is going to become a night me thank.
00:26:01
Speaker 11: You high claiming, then the team. My problem with culture is when cultures used to undermine women, especially in local and negotiations, where women are told that culture does not allow them to form part of local and negotiations. But culture doesn't restrict women to raise their kids alone. Because a poor mother raised their head daughter alone and then now it's time for local and negotiations, then cultures used to restrict head to form part of lovel and negotiations.
00:26:35
Speaker 1: Beat Drakenyon David.
00:26:37
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for what's a voice note. Yeah, mister in your response to that.
00:26:45
Speaker 4: I disagree which that Lobo it's not even a negotiation, so with discussion by the ferment, because if it's nequiation, it meant the payment. I mean, and I mean that the elders who know the family culture as the even is the other reason why they can't even be part of the lead leading part of that. But as so sure that they're going to still get merried to others surnames. So this is why they could not be involved. And there are other aspects that are not involving men in the culture. But in terms of the unevolving nature of the culture, the unquestionable nature of culture, I do agree with it. I think we are at a stage where we really need to strip things down. What is history, what is culture? What is the tradition? What is heritage, so that all of these aspects are understood and ever changing a pattering of this planet and the universe. I think at this stage we need to question how we are even interacting with our culture, men, with our ancestors. It can be the very same way that we used to do during the terms of power for furthers, because many things have changed in the space. The electromathetics filles are no longer as it was in the olden days. It was too quiet. Even the cows and the goats that you are using to communicate with our justcau are not here in terms of did you look after it? Does it know you? It? Does it so know you from when you're blenning to perform that. So there's a lot that has been scattered. I think we need to say, I was saying this yesterday, maybe when you dream of your mother or your grandmother, maybe are interesting with a higher intelligence, not that being. But we are not accustomed to drink like that. So I think it's high time that our kids are receiving help from us as elders to sayam, what is the saying it's born? Oh it's the name of that first person who is the head of the fair mail. Oh this is why we are identified with it. But before we use names, sass than a corner, YESU yourself and that people used to because even by the areas and the mountains they come from. Look at Mary met Dalla, that was the place Mary of Methdala, late Mary Mithiliens. So these are the things I think we need to give our kith illogic on their chulture and stop threatening our kids and saying anterests will be and when it's ours who are offended at that.
00:29:31
Speaker 1: Moment you calling from Roseburn, good morning.
00:29:37
Speaker 6: Good morning, came and Kevin, you know, in your comments you said something that is very very important about about about preserving the touture, recording it, having it documented, and sharing it. And and and in saying that, Clement reminded me as as as a boy growing into a man, meeting my wife and having kids, realized the importance of of my culture, of my language, of my of my religion, and and and you know, like if we have these things documented and we can go back to reference and to learn and to grow as a people, so that we can preserve where we come from, and you know, to to to to to to to have that source of belonging. It's like it's like when you go home, you feel a certain like a certain way immediately when you get home, it's like I'm where I belong. Even within your soul, you can feel it that I am home, this is where I should be.
00:30:36
Speaker 4: You know.
00:30:38
Speaker 5: So it is really really important the discussion you have in and you know, for us to have places for like Basul to know where to go to find out where they belong. For the Zulus, for the channels, for each and every one of us to have these things documented in libraries, on the Internet and in books, you know, bookshops, so that we know where we be long and we can have a point of reference where we can reference too, and we can practice our cultures, of our religions in our heritage proudly.
00:31:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, in Rosebank, I couldn't have said it better. Good the Clement. This is the from it to do the Clement.
00:31:20
Speaker 12: We we we are timelessly and continuously detached from our being as Africans by firstly the modernization.
00:31:35
Speaker 1: All these things that comes.
00:31:37
Speaker 12: It started long time ago with Christian Christianity.
00:31:41
Speaker 1: That actually made sure that we leave our culture.
00:31:45
Speaker 12: And thereafter came the update with divided because we're no longer We're no longer you know, attached to our families and all that.
00:31:55
Speaker 1: Now it's all dead cell phones and all that.
00:31:58
Speaker 12: And remember we no longer sit around brain is used to sit with us around the fire and tell all these sties, familitary stories and all bit, so we no longer have that. Modernization is really detaching us from our being de from.
00:32:17
Speaker 13: Hey, Clement, I love this conversation because I grew up with three different cultures. My parents are immigrants and I was born in their current in their current country of residents before moving to South Africa. So I have like a multicultural background, three different cultures, and I strongly believe that culture is subjective, it's evolutionary. I've spent my whole life so being so torn between all which culture do I belong to? Which culture do I identify with? But the truth is that I identify with all of them, and as people, I think we need to have that fluidity and flexibility to embrace whatever culture we want to embrace, whether it be the culture sure of your parents that you were born into, or the culture of the country you live in, or a new culture that you want to create for your family. So I do believe culture is fluid. And thanks for having the conversation. Have a good day.
00:33:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, So let me bring in a professor Mussatulu, who is a heritage expert and social political analyst.
00:33:22
Speaker 1: Prof I appreciate you also also.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: Joining this chat, and we've been trying to figure out this balance between one you want to preserve culture but also the realities around society that's been evolving. In culture that evolves, do you think there's a point there where there can be a balance.
00:33:44
Speaker 14: Well, Clement, thank you very much. I'm sorry, I'm at a conference here. Think with those violins, I've been in and out. But it's a very interesting topic. We we have to understand that culture is what we do every day and it evolves with time, it keeps on changing, and the agents of change in the case of Africa and South Africa where missionization agents of rapid change, missionization, education, apanization, industrialization, as well as other social factors that you come across when you are existing within those constraints or within those realities. Now, if you live in a forum, of course we are not going to go out and not a cow anywhere, so that that fades automatically. But what what happens all the time we have this idealism that culture is static and that it does not move. What eventually happens that where as culture evolves, human beings will choose certain aspects of culture and maintain very vigorously, and that is what is called heritage. Now, heritage is always about the past. We need it in order to be able to define the present in relation to the past. But in reality, you are not living in that past anymore. You cannot live in that past because of the circumstances that I have pointed out. So what happens is in terms of preservation, countries will build museums and archives and all of those libraries and everything like that, so as you can go there and learn about the culture over time, and then when it comes to the issues of heritage, countries will also do the same. What they do is they heritage eyes and look at the past from the past, and then sometimes you'll find that this is the books and everyone else. But in reality, culture evolves very quicker than you can imagine.
00:36:06
Speaker 3: So another thing that I realize is that especially the younger generation, they're asking questions, the question, the why question right, and over time they feel like people have neglected to share the why, to ask that why question behind certain practices. So now, when you're raised in the household, you expected to just do certain things. But when you ask, okay, what's the reason for doing things this way? What's the reason for doing them this way? There's never really an explanation. Sometimes sometimes our parents, our elders don't even know why things are being done in that particular way. What do you say to that is culture meant to be understood the practices that they are. We meant to know why we practice them, or the basis of culture itself is to just follow through. And if you don't understand why you are doing things the way you do.
00:37:04
Speaker 14: Well day to day, people may not have the instruments to answer the question why. But usually, as somebody who studied culture and heritage extensively, I know that, for example, some of the answers because some of the answers you will find after the effect. And that's because, for example, let's take the issue of a Zulu waiting as a cultural event, that's a perfect experience. But if I am to be stopped right now as I'm doing it to say why, maybe I can't be able to explain. But at the level of practicing manifestation, people usually get overwhelmed with all these things, many things that are happening at the same time that to understand culture sometimes we have to with throw a li bit from it and be able to look at it objectively then understand why, for example, the practice of lobola, why the practice of waiting songs in a waiting, Why there must be many people attending your waiting, not to charge and so on, but to be witnesses and filture that you actually did get married, h and to compliment you for that. The why you dress like this is always there, but sometimes day to day people are not able to go beyond saying this is how it is done, but the why part of it will always be problematic. So that's not surprising at all, especially when you grow up in a happened area where you've suddenly been attending all those schools and you suddenly hear that sudden sow is getting married or this, and that is happening. And if you go to merrit in a traditional way, this is how you dress up. And then people will not be able to tell you you dress up like that because trying to in times, the answers stance that what they left here of in Bunola, of our traditional way, you have not abandoned it, and and so on. And you'll find that culture sometimes inter adds a lot with religion and some of the things, as you know, in religion, are very difficult to explain.
00:39:22
Speaker 3: Professor musa heritage expert and social political analysts, thank you so much for coming through.
00:39:28
Speaker 1: Let's go to your what apps, Clement.
00:39:30
Speaker 15: What a wonderful conversation and the quality of this because that you broad thank you so much. And I also love how you your learne of questions in which brings everything into where we are now. And for me, that's where the interesting part comes to say away, culture meets culture because now culture which is like.
00:39:51
Speaker 1: For me, they defined differently.
00:39:53
Speaker 15: Culture is what the ethnic rituals and activities and all these languages, and culture is in what we are forming or how we are a society which is also forming its own culture in a way. So I think that's actually where the interesting part is because the two must co exist and they are quite conflicting to a large degree, because now modernizations livings in all that, and society we live it's its own culture. It's meeting culture. So culture, miss culture, thank you so much. I love the tropic and keep on listening.
00:40:29
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
00:40:30
Speaker 16: Here we have got these topics, heritage, tradition and culture. A deeper understanding is needed as well as the background so that we do not commercialize either heritage, tradition or culture. And that which is passed on from one generation to the next should really have the roots where it comes from and where it leads us. His civilis how our way it evaporates at the end of city.
00:41:05
Speaker 1: Thank you, Clement.
00:41:07
Speaker 3: Well some what's up texts that have come through here mess Lisa's Clement. Culture, I mean change is inevitable. One beautiful aspect of culture evolving but yet still keeping to the practice is lobola. Before families would send literal walking cows. But now we live in the verbs and locations and we do the eft payments during negotiations. We still practice lobola negotiations. And on the other hand, we practice safety of not having lots of money on hand. That's a message from Tabi. In sentence, another person says, high Clement, I believe that culture is lost when they are family cultural functions taking place. Some of our nieces and nephews tend to treat such occasions as an opportunity to entertain their own friends, and they don't see it as opportunity to learn about their own culture. That's a message from Simon.
00:42:06
Speaker 1: Lemen, what is culture and culture is a way of life.
00:42:11
Speaker 9: And you know, as well as animals have evolved and adapted to the current situations, the living situations, we're also as humans as part of the animal Kingdom. We have evolved, you know, our way of life evolves in order for us to survive. And I think many of us no longer smat goats every year saying that we're calling upon our ancestors because some of us believe that they are always with us, even when we do not.
00:42:49
Speaker 1: Slater Good
Speaker 1: The dialogue with Clement Mariela. It's not just another roundtable discussion.
00:00:06
Speaker 2: Let's walk the talk on save A notes on our thirst day dialogue this morning, I want us to have a conversation about culture, the evolution of culture over time, and.
00:00:20
Speaker 3: I want you center this more around your own experiences and your own choices, around how you've practiced culture. How do you balance cultural evolution and preservation, whether you're talking lobola or initiation schools, or memoral ancestral veneration, or any any ritual perhaps that you practice, how do you practice it today compared to how you used to practice that before? How far has culture allowed how far is it allowed culture to evolve? And at what point do we cross the line? Because culture is often described as this living, dynamic force. But you've got mostly the younger generations now that are redefining cultural practices and new spaces and in their own expression. But critics are saying that you can't tailor make culture. And I've always believed that culture is not static. It evolves as societies change and societies evolve. In fact, if culture remains rigid, then I think we risk becoming it becoming irrelevant, and we risk alienating the younger generations who live in this fast changing world. And I gave you an example Earlia of for instance, let's take the Initiation school, right, They've begun integrating modern health and safety standards while still maintaining and retaining spiritual significance, which shows that evolution can preserve meaning while promoting well being. So why should we draw the line between adapting traditions to fit modern society and preserving them in their original form to maintain cultural identity? How much flexibility should you, as an individual have in shaping your own cultural identities? You can give us a call on OH one one eighty three or seven oh two. The what'sapup line is oh seven two seven two one seven o two. Share your thoughts please, because some say when you modernize culture, then you run the risk of diluting it.
00:02:23
Speaker 1: Is that the view that you hold. Give us a call or send us a what's up? Voice?
00:02:27
Speaker 3: Notes, Let me introduce you to my two guests this morning. We've got Muso Carsa, who is a cultural practitioner a musician as well, joining us on the line. Mister Causa, thank you so much for making time.
00:02:38
Speaker 4: Good morning, and to the listeners, of the seven O two.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: We also have to Mukoko who is a cultural expert, languages and literature specialists and translator also joining this chair. Thank you for making time for us.
00:02:55
Speaker 5: Good morning, Good morning gentlemen the general. Good morning, michaeled the other side.
00:03:04
Speaker 1: Because let me start with you.
00:03:07
Speaker 3: Culture is often described as a living, dynamic force. What does this mean in a modern South African context?
00:03:19
Speaker 4: I think any culture is the subject to change. However, their peculiarity with the South African culture as evolution is not parallel. It is divating because of the arrival maybe of other cultures that has devoured over the years. For instance, if you look at a memory that you mentioned earlier, it can be that if you are in a performer member of our daughter and it has to coincide with the graduation. Graduation has nothing to do with memod So now if we evolve like that, we are divating. It's not part off with the logic and the history of that which we call is.
00:04:04
Speaker 3: M So, mister mcco, where do we then draw that line? How can we balance the evolution of culture with the preservation of culture?
00:04:23
Speaker 6: I would say that.
00:04:26
Speaker 5: There's no way in which culture would stay stated and made many, many practices which come into being, especially in the form of whatever our society tends to learn from. Because in the first instance, there are two things which we need to have in mind. Firstly, we have got those things which wouldn't naturally have to let go, maybe because of the fact that they may not be progressive enough to sustain us. And at the same time we would have things which we must protect, things which we've got to we must cut against foregoing them, that is, leaving them into for forgetting about them, because those things are what we are, things which make us sustain and at the same time make us more progressive, because indeed, if you don't grow, you grow less. In other words, it's good that some aspects we have got to let go because of the fact that they are not consistent with those things which we hold it dear m m. Yeah, that's that's how I can put it.
00:06:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, mister Causa. How because there are some people who sort of criticize, especially the more younger generations that are trying to redefine cultural practices in their new spaces. They want to find their own expressions of culture. But other people say, well, you can tailor culture per se it's either you are for it and you practice things in the way they're supposed to be practiced because there's a reason why they were practiced that way, or you completely step out and if you do something that fuses too many things, then do not call it culture. So what I suppose, what I'm asking is at what point are we crossing the line? And at what point as we appreciate this evolution of culture, do we acknowledge and appreciate that things may change and there are certain things that we may let go of.
00:07:04
Speaker 1: As mister Mococo said.
00:07:07
Speaker 4: I think in my view, in the world of heritage, in the world of culture, nothing goes to its because history comes as an intervention to record events more like the falling of their leaves, causing humors. You know, it's something that we can from time to time speak about. But those cultures are born of history. History now is now a thing of more like what you call the musiologies, an instruments where things are kept for heritage. Later certain cultures are unable to be practiced, they will be in the books we'll read about them. This is why we wear a certain way on certain times, meaning there's no way that we can go back and prachice our culture exactly like our forefathers. However, we need to ask ourselves, what is it a metaphysics ideologically that we have left for our kids that comes in a form of knowledge of self. Our kids do not know theirselves, and us as parents we go around and say, oh, law very said, oh look oh, But even their parents we're saying the same thing. It's a vicious cycle simply because we haven't been able to safeguard our culture. Look at the museums that are built. Who who were the architectures of that today in the in the modern day. How are we saying through all maybe the history of forteen ninety seven, sixteen sixty two, eighteen oh seven, eighteen thirty seven, eighteen seventy nine, these battles just mentioned a few or nineteen seventy six, how do we sit down and recollect our memorials so that they are now being consumed in the rhythm of the moment of now, in.
00:08:56
Speaker 3: The rhythm of the moment of now. I like, so, mister can make sure I understand you. Do you think then that sometimes we're too emotional about culture, for instance, having the issue of language that we're too touchy even about language because culture, I mean language is a core piece of culture.
00:09:15
Speaker 4: Yes, language is intrinsic to the expression of culture, teaching, et cetera. However, people even from the olden days, they used to wonder, and that's how languages got to evolve. That's how even semantic applicabilities of certain ways got to evolve. You look at even the simes like tabet and Tabete and tabete those they fall under dental cliques as soon as they move. When certain people are born in a certain area where a new language is spoken, they tend to miss pronouns. Look at a mango who left in eighteen twenty years with socialghan. Later they're calling themselves and go only people because that's a morphological behavior found in these words. Because bag where they're speaking, it's laws. Then they missed one on to go on. So, but we never made time for this being uma museum in the educational system in terms of how one can just get to understand themselves easily.
00:10:18
Speaker 3: So, mister mcco, there are some people who want to tailor fit, so to speak, how they practice that culture and they want to express it their own way. I do remember someone in in the where my family, where I come from, who was about to pay lobola? And he didn't necessarily want the uncles and the aunts to be part of the negotiations as culture would dictate. And he said, I just I just want my older brother, my mom, and my dad to go and negotiate lobola for me, for for him. That's how he wanted to practice that culture of the two families coming together. I'm using that example because I'm trying to figure out where do we then draw the line, because some in the family felt, no, if you want to do this, you've got to do it. The ancles and the ants are an intricate peace in the expression of this cultural activity, in the expression of this unification of the two families. So are they certain things, mister Mucoco, you think, okay, that's untouchable or must there be flexibility for people to decide how to express that culture. Still keep the essence of it, but do it in a way that makes sense to them, makes them happy.
00:11:39
Speaker 5: Indeed, the Germans, that's already say it, or let's disunderstood the concept of term cultures called terminus, with terms such as society, language, belief systems, and altitudes and all other kind of of of ways of life which made which made us to be what we are. It's true that we we we must got against those fasionable kinds of intrusions into our culture. But on the other hand, let us make a point that the young ones and those who perhaps are easily taken over by other subcultures, fashionable cultures. Lets let us teach them, let us encourage them that those which we suggest made us what we are today. Let's emphasis to them that yes, if you don't grow you grow less. Then let's let's let's has encourage our museums. Let us encourage.
00:12:58
Speaker 4: Our, our, our our cultural.
00:13:04
Speaker 5: Coming together to promote all those which are progressive and at the same time those which doesn't make us pieces of paper flying all over the show, not understanding where they come from and at the same time not expressing and at the same time sustaining what indeed is our treasure.
00:13:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, mister Casa, the question, then, I suppose is how do we preserve and maybe not preserve, but let me say this, how do we record then the true essence of how culture is practiced even now or maybe from back then. Because I think, as you say, as we evolve, and at some point some of us are going to start losing that you spoke about museums. I mean, I've been to some of your lectures around the Battle of Isandra, and those things help us understand more about us and where we come from. But how intentional can we be, then South Africans to record those so that at least there's a level of preservation of thoughts. Because the older generationlubay a Hamber, they pass away and they live with that knowledge, and we have not been interested enough to learn about the way of doing things, and that way that culture starts leaving us bit by bit.
00:14:31
Speaker 4: I'm just happy with the comment from my fellow guest around us collectively saying, oh, maybe this aspect of this culture is no longer maybe serving us as a nation, instead of saying, oh white people, hey, they're devouring our cultures. I want to go back to the idea of illobal and say, how maybe if one can say exercising democracy men in my household, yes I will still practice illobo or but traditionally in my household, this is how we're gonna do it. But these are the these are the elements that need to be understood because evolutionary, before people got to have what you call the hunter's era up to the Akraalian culture to the industrial as culture that you are living in today, they pull used to wander and there were there was no culture. They would just live and they would have kids living under the caves and wonder as they maybe they are normal fruits or they are no more animals. So now, but as the brain evolved, they began to come up with these cultures and say, if us as human have evolved from the vegetative aspect of our soul to the animals up to the rational soul, we need to come up with what we call illobo m Even in the Bible you just also do these illustrations that are historical. So but now let us go back and check now in your character individual, for instance, in this is zoo, I would say, why people who have to pay ilbalo? What is it that is needed from these animals? You would say, okay, three cows. Even the song abs to the hardily mozard little too, I'm tartoo fast. Now we understand the goody. This thing was not about the transitional aspect of it. Now you understand the duty in this cows. One of the cows maybe is going to pay homage to Mom, one is for Barbara, and maybe the other one is for the ceremony to happen. You say, not all of these elocus and evolutions that are faulted that we have tried to fit our cultures in. So what I'm saying is, once we understand these aspects, and now why, oh my loom bit they are so important because one day, if it's sociologically you have a problem with his child, I mean with his wife of yours, and maybe they're issues of abuse, misunderstanding. Who is gonna be there a social worker? Not not? Not all the time. We need now to say how do we recraft our society with a view to move forward. But if we say we're gonna evolve with our cultures, let us check what was the historical background before we focus on a seeker and destroy the background.
00:17:31
Speaker 3: Mister mccuco, maybe the same question to you as well around just preserving and because you know, I remember there was a time I was trying to I spoke to a relative, a cousin of mine, and I said, you know, while we still have our uncles, especially the older older uncles, we need to start, you know, recording them when we we must make time, bring the camera and just record them for the purposes of just preserving the information about the family tree, but also information about our culture, so that because we can see that we're slowly, slowly, slowly losing that and not through it being modernized. But there are certain things we don't understand when things happen. We still don't know, okay, what's to be done here when there's a funeral? Us, the younger generation don't even know what are the certain things to do? What kind of food do you do you cook? How do you go about grieving? Et cetera, et cetera. What ways do you think people can try and preserve that knowledge? Because the older generations still have some of it, as evolved as it may be, and many of us really don't understand much about our culture. How can we go about preserving that.
00:18:48
Speaker 5: I revenged by my college the other side set the most full.
00:18:53
Speaker 4: And it's only upon us.
00:18:55
Speaker 5: From now, from now or as from this unit, that it's an every femily made and take a decision that it's an every time when there is a cultural do at home. Let us just in one way or another, make a point that every aspect of that of that mugative is recorded, and at the same time it must be reviewed all the time, not necessarily with the mugative for mahadi or for for the capolo or and that type of thing. Let it's an every aspect of our culture be recorded m HM in its entire so that we, as time progresses, make a point that we we we emphasized to the young ones that hey, this is now a near thing which was on its way out now is an insane Let's explain to them that this is important. And this will perhaps those of us who still who are supposed to be and are still believing in ancestry. This would bring us luck. I think we need. It should be each and every family, each group, each society that will sit down and to the same time make a point that we record and at the same time make a point that geological geological sketches are made of each and every group, extended family, lineage, and so on that purpose, I think would strengthen these cultures. Some of these aspects which are fading away, overtaken by those which we note quite sure whether they're taking us to hell or they're teaching us to the place of Manna and so on.
00:21:09
Speaker 3: It's now eleven thirty and I'm interested to hear how you are trying to record how things have been practiced before are being practiced now, so that you're able to pick up the baton, so to speak. Because a lot of us, especially our generation there some of us don't really understand much about culture. So when there's a funeral or when your child goes to initiation schools, you don't even know where to begin. And I wonder how you are trying to record that so that when your child goes to initiation school or if you believe in that, or when there is a funeral or where there is a wedding and you still want to practice culture you believe in it, then you know that the that they said things that are supposed to be done, because we're losing that valuable information with our grandfathers, our grandmothers, our great aunts, uncles as they pass away. So how are you recording that? Share your thoughts with us, give us a call us and us what's a voice?
00:22:16
Speaker 5: Noted the dialogue with Clementla.
00:22:19
Speaker 1: It's not just another roundtable discussion. Let's walk the talk on saven O two.
00:22:25
Speaker 3: Twenty three minutes before twelve o'clock. We're talking about the evolution of culture and how we can balance cultural evolution with preservation. Whatever you practice, whether it's culture you practice when there's lobola, when there's initiations, callsmulo or maybe ancestral veneration, whatever it is that you practice, how far is culture allowed to evolve? And at what point do we across the line. And I've got some whatspup messages coming through, In fact that there's one I want to read because I think it really just encapsulates what we've been trying to say. Because you've got on the one side, people who believe that, of course culture is going to evolve as we evolve as a society. It's not static, right, it's a living, dynamic force. But you've got other people who say you can't tailor make and tailor fit culture.
00:23:26
Speaker 1: Then the minute you include.
00:23:28
Speaker 3: Some modern things, or you allow modernity to influence how you practice it, then you've walked away. But here's a listen to what this listener says on the WhatsApp line. You says, Clemon, my issue with culture is that it leaves little room for autonomy. As soon as you disagree with cultural practices because logically they don't make sense in your life, then you're labeled by society as lost and seen in a negative light. It becomes a problem for everyone else and not the person who has made that, the same who doesn't see themselves as being lost or having lost anything and is content with their life and who they are. Ultimately, it's down to believes which we don't necessarily all buy into. Let those who want to preserve cultures do that without shaming those for whom it is not important. That's a message there from anonymous. You can send yours as well on one one eighty three or seven oh two. What's that's What's up line? Otherwise call us on O one one eighty three or seven oh two. In fact, let's go straight to your what'sapps and then I'll get my guests Muso Kosa and so Mukoko to respond to some of them.
00:24:35
Speaker 7: Good morning Clement and your guests. Interesting topic and did I think the struggle between relevance and identity.
00:24:51
Speaker 1: Is a major one.
00:24:55
Speaker 8: I believe there are things that are practiced that have spiritual reasoning that cannot be tainted regardless of.
00:25:08
Speaker 9: What generation we are in or how revolutionary we are.
00:25:13
Speaker 1: And I also believe there are things that.
00:25:17
Speaker 8: Can be.
00:25:20
Speaker 7: Switched up or changed to fit in relevance to a particular generation.
00:25:31
Speaker 10: It's the maas you see a cultural practice is on this issue of lobola, particularly for black people, it is on another level. I'm not quite sure if maybe it is going to be even correct if it becomes regulated. There are so many things that need to be addressed in the area because of in the near future that the whole character of practice is going to become a night me thank.
00:26:01
Speaker 11: You high claiming, then the team. My problem with culture is when cultures used to undermine women, especially in local and negotiations, where women are told that culture does not allow them to form part of local and negotiations. But culture doesn't restrict women to raise their kids alone. Because a poor mother raised their head daughter alone and then now it's time for local and negotiations, then cultures used to restrict head to form part of lovel and negotiations.
00:26:35
Speaker 1: Beat Drakenyon David.
00:26:37
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for what's a voice note. Yeah, mister in your response to that.
00:26:45
Speaker 4: I disagree which that Lobo it's not even a negotiation, so with discussion by the ferment, because if it's nequiation, it meant the payment. I mean, and I mean that the elders who know the family culture as the even is the other reason why they can't even be part of the lead leading part of that. But as so sure that they're going to still get merried to others surnames. So this is why they could not be involved. And there are other aspects that are not involving men in the culture. But in terms of the unevolving nature of the culture, the unquestionable nature of culture, I do agree with it. I think we are at a stage where we really need to strip things down. What is history, what is culture? What is the tradition? What is heritage, so that all of these aspects are understood and ever changing a pattering of this planet and the universe. I think at this stage we need to question how we are even interacting with our culture, men, with our ancestors. It can be the very same way that we used to do during the terms of power for furthers, because many things have changed in the space. The electromathetics filles are no longer as it was in the olden days. It was too quiet. Even the cows and the goats that you are using to communicate with our justcau are not here in terms of did you look after it? Does it know you? It? Does it so know you from when you're blenning to perform that. So there's a lot that has been scattered. I think we need to say, I was saying this yesterday, maybe when you dream of your mother or your grandmother, maybe are interesting with a higher intelligence, not that being. But we are not accustomed to drink like that. So I think it's high time that our kids are receiving help from us as elders to sayam, what is the saying it's born? Oh it's the name of that first person who is the head of the fair mail. Oh this is why we are identified with it. But before we use names, sass than a corner, YESU yourself and that people used to because even by the areas and the mountains they come from. Look at Mary met Dalla, that was the place Mary of Methdala, late Mary Mithiliens. So these are the things I think we need to give our kith illogic on their chulture and stop threatening our kids and saying anterests will be and when it's ours who are offended at that.
00:29:31
Speaker 1: Moment you calling from Roseburn, good morning.
00:29:37
Speaker 6: Good morning, came and Kevin, you know, in your comments you said something that is very very important about about about preserving the touture, recording it, having it documented, and sharing it. And and and in saying that, Clement reminded me as as as a boy growing into a man, meeting my wife and having kids, realized the importance of of my culture, of my language, of my of my religion, and and and you know, like if we have these things documented and we can go back to reference and to learn and to grow as a people, so that we can preserve where we come from, and you know, to to to to to to to have that source of belonging. It's like it's like when you go home, you feel a certain like a certain way immediately when you get home, it's like I'm where I belong. Even within your soul, you can feel it that I am home, this is where I should be.
00:30:36
Speaker 4: You know.
00:30:38
Speaker 5: So it is really really important the discussion you have in and you know, for us to have places for like Basul to know where to go to find out where they belong. For the Zulus, for the channels, for each and every one of us to have these things documented in libraries, on the Internet and in books, you know, bookshops, so that we know where we be long and we can have a point of reference where we can reference too, and we can practice our cultures, of our religions in our heritage proudly.
00:31:10
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, in Rosebank, I couldn't have said it better. Good the Clement. This is the from it to do the Clement.
00:31:20
Speaker 12: We we we are timelessly and continuously detached from our being as Africans by firstly the modernization.
00:31:35
Speaker 1: All these things that comes.
00:31:37
Speaker 12: It started long time ago with Christian Christianity.
00:31:41
Speaker 1: That actually made sure that we leave our culture.
00:31:45
Speaker 12: And thereafter came the update with divided because we're no longer We're no longer you know, attached to our families and all that.
00:31:55
Speaker 1: Now it's all dead cell phones and all that.
00:31:58
Speaker 12: And remember we no longer sit around brain is used to sit with us around the fire and tell all these sties, familitary stories and all bit, so we no longer have that. Modernization is really detaching us from our being de from.
00:32:17
Speaker 13: Hey, Clement, I love this conversation because I grew up with three different cultures. My parents are immigrants and I was born in their current in their current country of residents before moving to South Africa. So I have like a multicultural background, three different cultures, and I strongly believe that culture is subjective, it's evolutionary. I've spent my whole life so being so torn between all which culture do I belong to? Which culture do I identify with? But the truth is that I identify with all of them, and as people, I think we need to have that fluidity and flexibility to embrace whatever culture we want to embrace, whether it be the culture sure of your parents that you were born into, or the culture of the country you live in, or a new culture that you want to create for your family. So I do believe culture is fluid. And thanks for having the conversation. Have a good day.
00:33:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, So let me bring in a professor Mussatulu, who is a heritage expert and social political analyst.
00:33:22
Speaker 1: Prof I appreciate you also also.
00:33:24
Speaker 3: Joining this chat, and we've been trying to figure out this balance between one you want to preserve culture but also the realities around society that's been evolving. In culture that evolves, do you think there's a point there where there can be a balance.
00:33:44
Speaker 14: Well, Clement, thank you very much. I'm sorry, I'm at a conference here. Think with those violins, I've been in and out. But it's a very interesting topic. We we have to understand that culture is what we do every day and it evolves with time, it keeps on changing, and the agents of change in the case of Africa and South Africa where missionization agents of rapid change, missionization, education, apanization, industrialization, as well as other social factors that you come across when you are existing within those constraints or within those realities. Now, if you live in a forum, of course we are not going to go out and not a cow anywhere, so that that fades automatically. But what what happens all the time we have this idealism that culture is static and that it does not move. What eventually happens that where as culture evolves, human beings will choose certain aspects of culture and maintain very vigorously, and that is what is called heritage. Now, heritage is always about the past. We need it in order to be able to define the present in relation to the past. But in reality, you are not living in that past anymore. You cannot live in that past because of the circumstances that I have pointed out. So what happens is in terms of preservation, countries will build museums and archives and all of those libraries and everything like that, so as you can go there and learn about the culture over time, and then when it comes to the issues of heritage, countries will also do the same. What they do is they heritage eyes and look at the past from the past, and then sometimes you'll find that this is the books and everyone else. But in reality, culture evolves very quicker than you can imagine.
00:36:06
Speaker 3: So another thing that I realize is that especially the younger generation, they're asking questions, the question, the why question right, and over time they feel like people have neglected to share the why, to ask that why question behind certain practices. So now, when you're raised in the household, you expected to just do certain things. But when you ask, okay, what's the reason for doing things this way? What's the reason for doing them this way? There's never really an explanation. Sometimes sometimes our parents, our elders don't even know why things are being done in that particular way. What do you say to that is culture meant to be understood the practices that they are. We meant to know why we practice them, or the basis of culture itself is to just follow through. And if you don't understand why you are doing things the way you do.
00:37:04
Speaker 14: Well day to day, people may not have the instruments to answer the question why. But usually, as somebody who studied culture and heritage extensively, I know that, for example, some of the answers because some of the answers you will find after the effect. And that's because, for example, let's take the issue of a Zulu waiting as a cultural event, that's a perfect experience. But if I am to be stopped right now as I'm doing it to say why, maybe I can't be able to explain. But at the level of practicing manifestation, people usually get overwhelmed with all these things, many things that are happening at the same time that to understand culture sometimes we have to with throw a li bit from it and be able to look at it objectively then understand why, for example, the practice of lobola, why the practice of waiting songs in a waiting, Why there must be many people attending your waiting, not to charge and so on, but to be witnesses and filture that you actually did get married, h and to compliment you for that. The why you dress like this is always there, but sometimes day to day people are not able to go beyond saying this is how it is done, but the why part of it will always be problematic. So that's not surprising at all, especially when you grow up in a happened area where you've suddenly been attending all those schools and you suddenly hear that sudden sow is getting married or this, and that is happening. And if you go to merrit in a traditional way, this is how you dress up. And then people will not be able to tell you you dress up like that because trying to in times, the answers stance that what they left here of in Bunola, of our traditional way, you have not abandoned it, and and so on. And you'll find that culture sometimes inter adds a lot with religion and some of the things, as you know, in religion, are very difficult to explain.
00:39:22
Speaker 3: Professor musa heritage expert and social political analysts, thank you so much for coming through.
00:39:28
Speaker 1: Let's go to your what apps, Clement.
00:39:30
Speaker 15: What a wonderful conversation and the quality of this because that you broad thank you so much. And I also love how you your learne of questions in which brings everything into where we are now. And for me, that's where the interesting part comes to say away, culture meets culture because now culture which is like.
00:39:51
Speaker 1: For me, they defined differently.
00:39:53
Speaker 15: Culture is what the ethnic rituals and activities and all these languages, and culture is in what we are forming or how we are a society which is also forming its own culture in a way. So I think that's actually where the interesting part is because the two must co exist and they are quite conflicting to a large degree, because now modernizations livings in all that, and society we live it's its own culture. It's meeting culture. So culture, miss culture, thank you so much. I love the tropic and keep on listening.
00:40:29
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
00:40:30
Speaker 16: Here we have got these topics, heritage, tradition and culture. A deeper understanding is needed as well as the background so that we do not commercialize either heritage, tradition or culture. And that which is passed on from one generation to the next should really have the roots where it comes from and where it leads us. His civilis how our way it evaporates at the end of city.
00:41:05
Speaker 1: Thank you, Clement.
00:41:07
Speaker 3: Well some what's up texts that have come through here mess Lisa's Clement. Culture, I mean change is inevitable. One beautiful aspect of culture evolving but yet still keeping to the practice is lobola. Before families would send literal walking cows. But now we live in the verbs and locations and we do the eft payments during negotiations. We still practice lobola negotiations. And on the other hand, we practice safety of not having lots of money on hand. That's a message from Tabi. In sentence, another person says, high Clement, I believe that culture is lost when they are family cultural functions taking place. Some of our nieces and nephews tend to treat such occasions as an opportunity to entertain their own friends, and they don't see it as opportunity to learn about their own culture. That's a message from Simon.
00:42:06
Speaker 1: Lemen, what is culture and culture is a way of life.
00:42:11
Speaker 9: And you know, as well as animals have evolved and adapted to the current situations, the living situations, we're also as humans as part of the animal Kingdom. We have evolved, you know, our way of life evolves in order for us to survive. And I think many of us no longer smat goats every year saying that we're calling upon our ancestors because some of us believe that they are always with us, even when we do not.
00:42:49
Speaker 1: Slater Good
