Episode 300: Michael O'Neill on his book They Might be Saints: On the Path to Sainthood in America (July 27, 2026)

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You're listening to WCAT Radio, your home for authentic Catholic programming.
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Welcome to WCAT. I'm Keithy Latimer and I'm your host
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for the Catholic book Room, where we read to learn,
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but we share with love in order to understand and
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be transformed in our lives. I'm very happy to have
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with me here this morning, author Michael O'Neill. Welcome, Michael,
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Thank you.
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It's great to be here.
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You've written a really fun book that I really enjoyed.
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They might be saints on the path to sainthood in America,
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So I think a lot of times we do think
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of saints as being from other places than America. But yeah,
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so it was it was really exciting to see how
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many saints we do have here and saints possibly coming
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up in the future. As your book list talks about
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a lot of saints here in the United States and
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people that for which causes are being opened. So yeah,
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great book. Looking forward to this. How about you start
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us off with a prayer and.
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The Father, I'm the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen,
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Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee
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Blessed art Thou amongst women and blesses the fruit of
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thy womb. Jesus, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for
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us sinners now at the Alva Death Amen, Our Lady
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of America, pray for us. All the United States saints
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pray for us. Amen.
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Thank you. So Michael, for our listeners this morning who
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are not familiar with you, you want to tell us
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a little bit about yourself.
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Well, my name is Michael O'Neill, but maybe people better
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know me as the Miracle Hunter. And I've dedicated my
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life to research and investigating the supernatural and telling the
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world about it. So I spend a good portion of
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my time developing television programs for EWTN and radio for WTN.
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On Saturdays, I've The Miracle Hunter and e WTN Radio,
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and then on television I have Explore with The Miracle Hunter,
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which is my travel series in which I've visited over
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eighty shrines around the world. And I do these half
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hour programs, and then I also do They Might Be Saints,
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which is a derivative of the book They Might Be
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Saints as well, where we look at the lives of
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Americans on the path to sainthood. So between writing the
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books and doing the television and radio and leading pilgrimages
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and spreading the word through speaking and other interviews. I
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talk about I'm all miracles all the time. So my
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hope is to tell people about these incredible moments in
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Christian history and for those people who have questions, maybe
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even just cracking the door open to faith. A lot
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of people are closed off to that, but miracles can
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be the thing that draw people in and people say,
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did that really happen? And I'd like to present the
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facts as much as I can and present a reason
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for looking further. So that's my hope for focusing on
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miracles for people.
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Why do you think miracles do happen?
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Well, miracles happen for any number of reasons, and I
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think that built into the definition of a miracle. You know,
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we could say, well, what's the difference between a mystery
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and or a marvel and a miracle? And the difference
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is that miracles are those inexplicable things that imply a
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loving father and have been looking out for us. But
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they also are something that has worked for the good.
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So things that are neutral or that work out in
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the other direction, we would say those aren't miracles. But
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when we see a good result some blessing in our lives,
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some reason for us to grow and draw closer to Christ.
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Those are the things that we would say are miraculous,
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and so built into that definition of miracle is those
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things that are worked for the good.
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I mean, I think a lot of people do recognize
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when miracles happen in their lives, But then so many
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people will just say, oh, it's just a coincident. But
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some things clearly go beyond coincidence, right, and can even
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be verified, as you say, by science, like medical miracles
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where there really isn't a scientific explanation for a healing, let's.
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Say, correct. And I think that what's very interesting about
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the miracles used in the canonizations of saints at the
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dichastriph for the Cause of Saints in Rome is not
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only do they have a medical commission to say that
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the cure was inexplicable, we would say instantaneous, complete and
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lasting healing of a serious medical condition, not liable to
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going its own. And then there's a second level of review,
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which is the review of theologians to find out that
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it was the case of the intercession of a future
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saint and a single future saint. If you pray to
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all your friends the saints like I do. Sometimes that
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doesn't really count for those canonization miracles, but they try
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to show that whether it was pray right before the healing,
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or the engaging with a relic or some other long
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standing devotion that kind of bubbled up right in that
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moment and somebody prayed for that. They try to make
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the connection between the devotion to the saint and the
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prayer to the saint and the healing. And so, like
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we say, maybe there are coincidences, maybe there are random
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healings out there, but the Church always tries to rule
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those out by saying, did the person specifically pray for
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this healing through the intercession of a future saint? And
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so the church does a great job of investigating both
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whether it's a it passes muster for a miraculous healing,
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but also that it was through the intercession of a
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single saint.
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It always seems to me that you know, we have
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I mean only the Church of course, has these idea
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of saints to begin with, which always fascinates me. But
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let's say my daughter was really sick from some she
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has cancer, some incurable things. She's you know, the doctors
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have said she's going to die. I'm fascinated by the
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idea that someone would pray to someone who's not not
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then declared a saint yet, Like I would just go
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to Mary and Joseph, you know, Saint Michael the Archangel,
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I would go to Saint Padre p O. I would
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go to Saint Francis of a CC like I would.
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I just can't understand why I would waste a minute
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of my time on some guy Joe Smith, you know
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in Illinois, who might be a saint. You know. So
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I'm fascinated by this concept of a devotion. I mean
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that seems like it must come from God to beget that,
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and in itself is a miracle because or it's craziness.
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Why would I waste my time praying to a might
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be a saint.
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That's exactly right. And I think that's where it's a
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huge demonstration of faith to pray to that might be
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saint and only them. And I think that any of
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these cases where we say a healing has been considered
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for a saint hood, I think it's so fascinating to
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hear the backstory of what impelled to select that single
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person who wasn't an established saints. I know that when
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I really need a miracle, I'm looking at Saint Padre
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Pio or a Saint charbel Ma Kloof. Those are two
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of my favorite miracle workers, and they have a great
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pedigree or reputation for miracles, a lot of feathers in
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their cap, so to speak. But people have all sorts
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of different reasons, whether like in the case of Saint
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Catherine Drexel, those people were in Philadelphia who knew of
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Saint Catherine Drexel. The first healing Robert Guthrman, who was
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healed of deafness in one ear. His family lived across
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the street from the convent where Catherine Drexel lived, and
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so they knew of her very locally. And in so
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many ways, it's like cheering for the local baseball team.
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You go with what's what's near you, and that's that's
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who you follow. But in so many other cases it's
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been an introduction a prayer card or a relic, or
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some other kind of connection that a friend or a
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family member or otherwise brings to the attention of somebody
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who may not even be a tuned to this sort
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of thing. Praying to the saints, So all the all
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the backstories are fascinating. Why why we would choose just
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one might be saints over one of the Canoni saints.
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It is a little bit of a miracle anytime they
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find a true miracle used for canonization.
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I mean, I guess if I think of somebody like
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JP two, you know, I could picture praying to him
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before he was declared a saint. But you know, he
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was sort of in our living rooms all the time,
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you know, he was, he was so present to us,
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and his face was so familiar. So so maybe there
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I could make that exception. So I find that fascinating.
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I've always found that fastening, like why would you do that?
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You know, so there is something that already you see
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in the process comes from God to us.
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Yeah, I agree, I agree completely. It's it's an amazing thing.
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Uh.
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And not every miraculous claim is validated as a true miracle,
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either on the local level in the day Ice dioceis
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in investigation or in Rome with the medical commission. So
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just finding somebody who is praying to that saint perhaps
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is a huge hurdle. But then when they have a healing,
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it has to pass these this incredible set of strict standards,
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this Lamborghini criteria. So yeah, it's it's truly, it's truly
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amazing that they find any miracles at all. Yeah.
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So your book brings us through the process of someone
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being declared a saint. But let's step back a little,
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because I think a lot of times people don't really
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understand who are what a saint is to begin with.
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I think we do think we have this concept of
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like perfect perfection, so to speak, someone who never sins,
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someone who you know, just always gets it right. I
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think that's why many of us go through life thinking, well,
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I could never be a saint, because you know, half
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the time I'm a jerk, you know, and I don't
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get it right, and I spend half my life in confession.
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So tell us about the church's concept of sainthood to
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begin Yeah.
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And I have to say that is one of the
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main reasons that I wrote this book They might be Saints,
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is because we all have this conception of these people
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who lived across an ocean, and we know of them
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in statues and holy cards and this glossy image, this
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unattainable goal that none of us could ever reach. And
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so I wrote the book they might be saints in
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order to present Americans those people who walked amongst us
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on our soil, and they aren't. They weren't perfect, And
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I will go through some of those stories. But I
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think that the people who when they fell down, they
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got back up and they still followed that path to Christ.
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But when we talk about saints, saints is an interesting
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term because it comes from the French meaning holy. And
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so the idea is is that a person who's declared
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a saint is somebody recognized by the Catholic Church to
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have lived either a life of heroic virtue or who
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have given up their life out of hatred for the
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faith in martyrdom. And there's a third kety now, perhaps
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a forthcoming soon. But these are people that the Catholic
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Church said are in heaven with God. And that's the
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whole point of the miracles. Anyway, Lots of people like
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Slonis Casey were known for miracles on earth, perhaps hundreds
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and hundreds of miracles on earth, but not a single
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one of those could be used towards his canonization. It
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has to be miracles after death because that shows that
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the person is in heaven with God. So the whole
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Catholic concept behind saints are those people who are holy
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enough to be in heaven, and by proof of miracles,
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they're in heaven with God and through the recognition of
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the Church. And it is noteworthy, however, that the word
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saint when we go to in the Bible, saints are
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mentioned as the faithful on earth, as opposed to those
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who have died after us. And so the understanding of
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the word saint has changed over the years, but we
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do find it in the Bible referring to people on earth.
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And of course when we talk about Mother Teresa or
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on Paul the Second, those were what we call it,
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quote unquote living saints, but theoretically there is no such thing.
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According to the Church's terminology. It is somebody who is
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in heaven with God, but.
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It is that recognition that they were a saint while
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they were living.
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Yes, exactly right. And when we talk about canonization, the
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word canon really just means list. And so when the
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Church canonizes somebody, it's adding somebody to the list. And
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there's been something like ten thousand saints throughout Christian history,
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and so when somebody is canonized, that means they're added
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to the canon or to the list of saints, And
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a lot of people might say, well, isn't canonization just
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sort of like the Catholic Hall of Fame. Somebody who's
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lived this amazing holy life, we want to give them
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credit for that and put them on the list so
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that people can recognize them. But it's nothing like that
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at all. Really, sure, we want to celebrate them when
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they're added to the list, and their family members, of course,
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are proud and excited, and our hometown is proud and excited.
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But they elevate people to saints to show them as
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intercessors so that we might pray to them, but also
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that we might emulate them. The church holds up their
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life of heroic virtue and says they did it the
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right way, they figured it out, they walk that path
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to holiness, and you can model yourself after their lives.
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And so my hope with the book They Might Be
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Saints is that people who read it might become attracted
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or attached to one of the characters in the book,
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one of the subjects of the chapters, and say I
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could see myself in that person. I could live life
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the way they lived it as well. So finding inspiration
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in the saints is the most important part.
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It was really beautiful when John Paul the Second died
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and we heard just this cry from the crowd Santo subito.
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I mean, it was just like wow, you know, that
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sense of the faithful had seen the life of heroic
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virtue that he had lived. It was amazing.
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Yep. You don't see that every day where somebody with
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that deck Santo subito, that saint hoood immediately is the
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is the call from the faithful, and that's the census
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fidalium kicking in. People have that sense that the person
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lived a holy life and that they should be considered
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for the altars by Rome. But you know, every every
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saint has there's their own special story, whether or not
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they were a pope or they were a pauper. I
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think it's a it's a it's an amazing thing to
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see how somebody moved along that path to saint hood.
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And the process used to sometimes take tens decades, hundreds
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of years, thousands of years. You know, it's really been
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streamlined since John Paul the Second. I mean we've certainly
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seen that with our latest millennial saint, Saint Carlo Acutus. Well,
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I keep thinking is an American saint because he's this
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millennium and I think millennium is such an American word.
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I realize as I was reading your book, like, where's
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Carlo Acutis, you know, but he really has been a
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saint for us here in the United States, even though
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he's not an American saint per se. I feel like
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we've kind of adopted him. I mean, he's wearing a
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Spider Man costume, you know, so he just seems very American.
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It made me kind of laugh when I realized as
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I went through your book, Oh right, he's not you know,
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it's not a United States saint.
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Well yeah. I think that the Catholic Church saw the
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great value in Carlo Acutis. And again we're not putting somebody,
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we're recognizing them just to recognize them. They know that
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the young people of the United States and the world
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will benefit by having this model, somebody who did it
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the right way, who was able to live a life
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of holiness as in their youth, even even with all
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the distractions and temptations that are found amongst young people.
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So I think that they sort of fast forwarded his cause,
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not meaning that he shouldn't have been a saint, meaning
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that they prioritized his cause. You know, two miracles were
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found very quickly for him, and they investigated those and
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moved him along the path, much quicker than the normal
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decades or centuries that it takes for some saints. So
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I consider him to be my own personal patron saint
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because like like like him he was. Uh, I'm fascinated
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with miracles, of course, eucharistic miracles and Marian apparitions. And
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I build websites, and so did he. So I think
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that for him when when my computer crashes or I
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have a technology problem, Carlo Acutas is my intercessor. When
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I'm working on a new project for EWT or otherwise,
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I'm praying to Carlo Acutas. So he's a He's a great,
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great intercessor for me. And I was able to go
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to his tomb last year. I was able to travel
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there and see his see his body there in in
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a cz So that was that was quite quite quite
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an amazing thing.
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And I think amazing too for young people is to
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have a saint who you know, lived in the culture
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of today, the modern culture, this relativistic, materialistic culture. He
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lived in it, and was still able to be a saint,
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to be to seek holiness in his life. You know,
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when you hear of a saint who limits his social media,
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you know, and is gaming to one hour a week
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or something, you have to kind of laugh and go, wow, Okay,
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this is like a real kid in the real world today,
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and so he is able to be a model for
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young people today in a way that you know, maybe
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someone from two hundred years ago cannot be. So it's exciting.
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Yeah, I think that you know a lot of people
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who are hung up on the idea of I could
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never be a saint. They're probably tripped up by the
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fact that throughout Catholic history the vast, vast majority of
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saints have been priests and nuns, and so if somebody
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already doesn't belong to that category living in religious life,
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they might say, well, I'm already not it's not possible
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for me to be a saint, like an official saint.
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So when you see somebody like Carlo Acutis, you know,
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the kid and sneakers and jenes, you say, okay, well
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that's he's from our modern times and he's not even
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a priests or nun. So it is possible for people
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to be saints.
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I think also we do have this very whitewashed except
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for maybe a few of the saints, we have a
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very whitewashed few of their lives, as if you know,
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they were born saints, they stayed saints, and died saints.
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But in fact that you know, when you really start
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to dig into the lives the saints, a lot of them,
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we're really a piece of work for quite a while,
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really struggling with temptation, falling into temptation, dragging themselves, by
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the grace of God out of temptation, out of out
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of the muck, you know, having lives very in some ways,
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for sometimes long extended period of time, very ordinary lives
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in a sense.
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Absolutely, And that's that's one of the reasons I wrote
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the book They Might Be Saints, is to tell the
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very ordinary and sometimes difficult lives of these future saints.
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Is that it wasn't always easy, and they weren't always
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perfect from the get go, and they transformed over a
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time where they grew to Christ throughout their life. But
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there are there are really no cases of Virgin Mary's
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side of somebody who was perfect from the apps, from
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the beginning and they carried that all the way through.
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So that's an unrealistic view of saints, and it's important
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for us to emulate these people who they did fall down,
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but they got back up.
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Yeah. I believe it was in your book, and I'm
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trying to find it here in my notes, but I can't.
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But you talk first of all that martyrdom is something
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that that works well for sainthood. I'd prefer to become
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a saint by other means, please, but martyrdom does work.
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And I found that fascinating because there's a priest who
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really didn't live a very proper life. He was a womanizer,
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but in the end he died as a martyr, and
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you know, he basically said that he was a fornicator, always,
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a heretic, never and would not renounce the faith. And
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I just find that fascinating that, you know, the concept
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of dying for the faith, martyrdom, it's kind of like
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love culvers a multitude of sins.
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Yep. No, I think there's all kinds of stories of
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those people who have have transformed over time. But martyrdom,
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as you mentioned, was the very first path to saintthood.
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And I detail this in the book, they might be saints,
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but in the early centuries of the church, nobody was
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canonized based on a life of heroic virtue. Only the
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people who were martyred were Those were the people who
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were first recognized as saints in the Catholic Church, and
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then later they opened it up to recognize people who
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lived this holy life of virtue. And now, as of
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Pope Francis, we have a third path to canonization called
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oblatzio vitai, which is the martyrdom of charity. They call
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it to somebody giving up their life out of love
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for another And it's nothing to do with martyrdom where
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somebody kills you for being Catholic or being faith faithful.
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It has to do with you putting yourself in harm's
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way in order to protect another person's life. Say Maximilian Kolby,
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what you would say is the proto mart martyr for
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this alblatsu vitai. So there's a third path now to
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Saint hud.
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Yeah, I found that fascinating, that difference, because I think
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I always thought of Maximilian Kolby as being a martyr,
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but it really was different. He really chose that out
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of love for.
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Someone that's correct, and so that is the new path.
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There's only been a handful of people now who have
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been recognized because the process as such, but there are
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there's a group of martyrs from the United States actually
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called the Shreveport Martyrs, and we're doing an episode of
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They Might Be Saints about them coming out on EWTN
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and that those people who those priests who gave up
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their lives during a pandemic or a malaria outbreak and
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they served the people there in Louisiana and they gave
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they disregarded their their health and their safety, and they
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they saved and helped other people. And so those people
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are now being considered by Rome for this third slot
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o blasioviti recognition by Rome.
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So there's these four stages starting with servant of God.
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Do you want to talk about the fourth stages a
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little bit of what the church recognizes as we go
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on this path.
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Yep. So there are four main stages in the sainthood process.
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We call it servant of God, venerable, blessed, and saint.
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So certain of God is sort of when they're out
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of the gates, when the saint hood process begins, and
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that's when the diocesan phase is underway, and the diocesean
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phase interviews any living witnesses, experts about their lives or
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people who can testify about how they lived their lives
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of holiness, and they gather all the information and they
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put it together in this posisio, which is in academic
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position paper or spiritual biography as some people have called it,
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and they submit that to Rome after some years of
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writing and assembling and translating it to Italian and putting
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it in a box with a red bow and a
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wax seal, and they send it to the Dicastry for
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the Causes of Saints, and then the Dicastry receives it,
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and then they go through the long process of calmbing
430
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through it and looking at all the highlighted virtues of
431
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that person. This isn't a time for miracles at this point.
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Perhaps they might reference them in the sainthood file sort
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of just as a footnote, But the main thing is
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how did that person live their life and what were
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the details of their life? And based on all these
436
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interviews and research that has been done, and usually that
437
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takes at this point about a decade, Carlo Cutis may
438
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have been faster than that, but normally takes a decade
439
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or so. And then through a decree that's promulgated through
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the Pope, through the dicastry for the cause of saints,
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they recognize the life of heroic virtue of that person,
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and that person is called venerable. And so when a
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person is venerable, the church is not saying that in
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heaven with God. They're not saying that this person is
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definitively there, but they lived a life that we might
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model ourselves after. And the Church doesn't allow the building
447
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of churches to a venerable. They don't allow it's more
448
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of a local devotion, it's not a worldwide devotion. But
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that's the first movement from servative God to venerable. And
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then comes the search for miracles, and they can use
451
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older miracles that occurred years ago, as in the case
452
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of Blessed Miriam Teresa dem Janovich, they found a miracle
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that happened well before she was declared venerable. But then
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when a miracle is investigated by the local doctors, a
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new posit seal is put together and sent to Rome
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again with a red ribbon and a wax seal and
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the medical commission looks at it there and they find
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out if there's any natural explanation, and they use this
459
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Lamborghini criteria that was established by Prospero Lambertini, the future
460
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Benedict the fourteenth and he was an Italian cardinal who
461
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was born in the sixteen hundreds, and they still use
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his criteria even in the church today. That's how the
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church doesn't move very quickly with advancing these things. But
464
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this is the same criteria as Lurds uses for validating
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those healings through the water of Lurds and also in
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canonization causes. Those are the only two places in the
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world that investigate miracles. And so when a miracle passes
468
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the muster of this Lamborghini criteria, again a serious illness
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not liable to go in its own It must be instantaneous,
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complete and lasting. There can be no other crisis which
471
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precipitates the cure. And then through the intercession of a
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singular saint is validated by the cardinals. Then we have
473
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the point of declaring the miracle valid and the person
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goes through the process of beatification. And now it used
475
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to be under Popeton Paul the second beatifications happened in Rome,
476
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and now they happen in the local level. So Solonis
477
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Casey when he was beatified in twenty seventeen or so,
478
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that was at Ford Field in Detroit, where the Detroit
479
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Lions play football. And so it's done on the local
480
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level and the local place where that person lived. And
481
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:12.359
then a second miracle happening after the announcement of beatification,
482
00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:15.160
has to be found, and then that's again sent to
483
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.599
Rome after investigation, and once it's approved, that person is
484
00:26:18.640 --> 00:26:22.880
announced for canonization, and then we see them being recognized
485
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.799
as a saint and so servative, God, venerable, blessed and saint,
486
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.960
each with its own distinct process. And it's very interesting
487
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:33.400
to note that that second miracle must happen after the beatification.
488
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:36.039
You can't have two miracles saved up and play two
489
00:26:36.079 --> 00:26:38.200
cards at once and say, you know, take me to
490
00:26:38.279 --> 00:26:42.079
saint right away. So they wait till the beatification happens,
491
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:45.160
and then they start that second process. And the closest
492
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.119
example I've ever heard of is John Paul the Second.
493
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:52.359
During his beatification, a woman from South America was watching
494
00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:55.319
it on television and she had a miracle while she
495
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:59.119
was watching the beatification and that was the miracle used
496
00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:02.079
for his Canonis. But it always has to happen after
497
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:03.359
the beatification process.
498
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:07.519
So yeah, that was that was amazing. So what if
499
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:10.400
somewhere to ask? Okay, so it seems like a lot
500
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:14.119
of people get stuck at you know, venerable or it
501
00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:17.079
get stuck at blessed. You know, there's one miracle and
502
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:20.400
then there's never another one. You know, So did you
503
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:22.920
get it wrong with the one miracle? Are they a
504
00:27:23.039 --> 00:27:26.480
lazy saint? Like, what's the problem here? In one hundred
505
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:30.319
years they did one miracle, it seems I.
506
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:33.680
Think, Yeah, it's an interesting thing. And I was recently
507
00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.160
up at Champion, Wisconsin, the site of the one and
508
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.240
only approved Marian apparition in the history of the United States.
509
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:42.799
And for the fourth of July they had a nine
510
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:46.519
day novena for the American Saints and that was related
511
00:27:46.559 --> 00:27:49.359
to the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of America, of course,
512
00:27:49.400 --> 00:27:52.079
and it was a really beautiful exhibit where they highlighted
513
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.000
the eighty people who have either been saints or on
514
00:27:55.039 --> 00:27:58.279
the path to sainthood. And they did these exhibits and
515
00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:00.000
it was beautiful and they had all the causes there
516
00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:02.400
with tables, and it was it was quite an event
517
00:28:02.440 --> 00:28:04.440
to be at. It was so excited to be there.
518
00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:07.880
But what's interesting, as you're pointing to, is, you know,
519
00:28:08.079 --> 00:28:10.559
of the eighty, we have more a little more than
520
00:28:10.599 --> 00:28:13.160
a dozen who are saints, and the rest are these
521
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.039
people on the path the sainthood, whether they're servants of
522
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:19.839
God or venerables recognized for heroic virtue or blesseds a
523
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:23.119
much smaller number. And so your question is what happens
524
00:28:23.559 --> 00:28:25.920
with these, you know, these other saints who are venerables
525
00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.000
or blessings. Why aren't they moving faster? Well, you know,
526
00:28:29.039 --> 00:28:31.799
I think that there are a couple explanations. Is that
527
00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:35.000
the church moves very slowly. And there may be as
528
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:39.759
many as two thousand potential cases of saints in Rome
529
00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:42.519
right now, and so there's they're slogging through a lot
530
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:45.079
of information there at a very slow rate in general.
531
00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.720
But again we have this very interesting and difficult process
532
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:51.480
of finding a miracle. Again, as we pointed out, you
533
00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:54.400
have to pray to just that one saint. Uh, And
534
00:28:55.519 --> 00:28:57.880
like I mentioned, when I'm in trouble, when I need
535
00:28:57.920 --> 00:29:00.000
a saint, I'm praying to all my friends in heaven
536
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:01.920
and hoping that somebody up there picks up the phone
537
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:04.240
and so, but the church doesn't work like that where
538
00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:06.799
you said, you know, you talk to your parish priest
539
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.920
and you say, well, I had a miracle, and I
540
00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:14.160
pray to Padre Pio and Saint Herez and Saint Francis
541
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:17.400
and also this potential saint. You know, the church would
542
00:29:17.440 --> 00:29:20.319
never say well, it's definitely the potential saint. They're going
543
00:29:20.359 --> 00:29:23.200
to say, well, it's probably Padre Pio. So it has
544
00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:25.920
to be a very clear case of singular intercession, which
545
00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:28.720
is very rare, especially for an unknown saint. Like you
546
00:29:28.720 --> 00:29:31.079
were pointing out that these might be saints, why would
547
00:29:31.079 --> 00:29:34.400
anybody pray to them? So finding a miracle that is
548
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.039
directed to just that one future saint is really tough.
549
00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:39.920
And then the criteria is so hard that anything is
550
00:29:39.960 --> 00:29:43.440
considered to be miraculous. I think most things get swatted
551
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:46.920
out of there when when there's been medical treatment. So,
552
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:49.480
for example, the Church always wants us to see our
553
00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:51.880
doctors and to do the best we can to use
554
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:55.519
human means to cure any illness that we have. But
555
00:29:55.599 --> 00:29:58.240
it's only those cases where medical treatment has not yet
556
00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:03.160
been applied or it has failed that the church considers. So,
557
00:30:03.279 --> 00:30:06.799
for example, if you had cancer and had chemotherapy and
558
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:10.519
you were praying to this future saint. If you were
559
00:30:10.519 --> 00:30:13.519
to go to Rome and say, Holy Father, I've got
560
00:30:13.559 --> 00:30:16.559
a miracle, and you know, I was cured of cancer,
561
00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:19.279
and they said, well you were you treated well I
562
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:23.240
had I had chemotherapy, They'd say, well, congratulations on your miracle.
563
00:30:23.319 --> 00:30:26.960
It maybe was the hands of a good doctor using chemotherapy.
564
00:30:27.279 --> 00:30:30.880
And everybody gets treatment nowadays, in this modern world, So
565
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.480
finding cases where there's no treatment is really rare. And
566
00:30:34.519 --> 00:30:36.680
so I think that all those things stacked up against
567
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:39.759
each other make it very, very difficult to find a
568
00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:42.559
miracle that would propel somebody from venerable to blessed or
569
00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:43.400
blessed to saint.
570
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.079
And they're usually physical miracles, right, not spiritual miracles. Is
571
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:48.680
that correct?
572
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.960
Yes, you're hitting on a very important point is that
573
00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:55.240
I would say ninety nine point nine percent of all
574
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.559
the healings that are validated by Rome are medical miracles.
575
00:30:59.079 --> 00:31:01.079
And the reason for them is is because of the
576
00:31:01.119 --> 00:31:05.240
documentation before and after. So you may take a medical test,
577
00:31:05.319 --> 00:31:07.680
you may do a MRI or a scan or an
578
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:10.920
X ray, and uh, then there's a healing, and then
579
00:31:11.079 --> 00:31:13.680
afterwards they can do the same tests and the same
580
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:17.319
MRI and the same scan and compare the results before
581
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:20.240
and after and say, Wow, something truly happened, and we
582
00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.720
have documentation. I only know of two cases that were
583
00:31:23.799 --> 00:31:29.839
not medical healings that related or resulted in beatifications or canonizations.
584
00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:34.119
One was this a Saint Juan Masias in Quito in Ecuador.
585
00:31:34.799 --> 00:31:39.039
Uh he was a priest there from Spain. And the
586
00:31:39.119 --> 00:31:42.519
story is that there was a man who was had
587
00:31:42.559 --> 00:31:45.960
a soup kitchen or a who is serving the poor
588
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:49.880
in Ecuador, and uh he went to go set up
589
00:31:49.880 --> 00:31:52.799
for the food for the hes a cook, and then
590
00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:55.599
all these people showed up, hundreds of people, and he
591
00:31:55.640 --> 00:31:57.920
didn't He had only one one bag of rice and
592
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.960
only one piece of meat, and he had hundreds of
593
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:03.319
people waiting for him. And he had a great devotion
594
00:32:03.440 --> 00:32:06.720
to Juan Masias. So he ended up praying to that
595
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:09.559
saint and said, I need a food miracle here. And
596
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:12.200
the food began multiplying, the rice was growing and the
597
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.240
meat was multiplying, and all the people ate their fill.
598
00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:18.480
And that was a miracle used in the Saint hoood
599
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:21.680
process of Juan Masias and The other one I know
600
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:28.319
of is this a saints in Africa who had who
601
00:32:28.400 --> 00:32:31.559
was being attacked. There was an attack and they hid
602
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:34.240
in a church and they had no food or water
603
00:32:34.319 --> 00:32:38.880
for days as they were hiding from these attackers. And
604
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:42.799
I think it's blessed. Blessed Stephanie was her name, and
605
00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:48.160
the Holy water font was multiplying and they were able
606
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:50.720
to drink from it for days. And that was the
607
00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:53.359
miracle that was used in her sainthood process as well,
608
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:57.079
because that water kept coming and they were able to
609
00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.799
survive with the water of the of the Holy Water.
610
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:02.559
Uh and uh. That is the only other case that
611
00:33:02.640 --> 00:33:06.119
I know of a non medical miracle being used for canonization.
612
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:13.480
So yeah, that's that's amazing. Your book outlines details a
613
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:16.880
lot all of the American saints and their lives, which
614
00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:18.000
is wonderful. Do you have a.
615
00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:24.480
Favorite, Well, let's see of from from my book. You know,
616
00:33:24.519 --> 00:33:27.240
I have a I have a great devotion to Salonis Casey,
617
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:31.559
who's a blessed And I also am very fascinating by
618
00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:34.880
the story of Venerable Cornelia Connolly. I'm not sure if
619
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:37.480
you read that story in the book, but I think
620
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.839
it's the most interesting one. It's the story of a
621
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:46.880
woman whose husband actually left her and her children and
622
00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:50.279
he went on to become a Catholic priest. At the time,
623
00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:55.599
she she had given her uh her her her sad
624
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:58.359
approval to this when when they asked if she was
625
00:33:58.480 --> 00:34:00.920
if she was willing to make that sacri and she did.
626
00:34:01.440 --> 00:34:04.240
But then she went on to raise her children and
627
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:09.440
become a sister herself. This Cornelia Connolly, and she lived
628
00:34:09.440 --> 00:34:13.840
this incredible life of sacrifice and holiness despite this very
629
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:18.480
strange turn of events. And she had converted from Anglicanism,
630
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.880
I believe, and the husband and wife did. The husband
631
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.559
left to become a Catholic priest and she later became
632
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:27.880
a nun. So this was the strangest of all pasts
633
00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.559
the Saint Good. But I think a movie could be
634
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.159
made out of her life. But there's so many fascinating
635
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:37.280
stories in the book. They might be saints.
636
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:44.599
So my question, how do we as Catholic reconcile? So
637
00:34:44.679 --> 00:34:48.119
this is always my thing, you know, we especially I
638
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:50.599
think in the last fifty six years you've really heard
639
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:55.199
about this universal called a holiness and the idea that
640
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.639
we should all desire to be a saint. So we
641
00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:01.320
have that on one side, and then the balance on
642
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:05.360
the other side is, well, how can I think I
643
00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.840
could be a saint? Like, how do I reconcile that
644
00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:11.599
with humility? It sounds arrogant to think, well, I'm work
645
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:13.880
you know, well, I'm working on being a saint, you know,
646
00:35:13.960 --> 00:35:16.119
but we should be working on being a saint. Yet
647
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:19.480
it sounds arrogant to even think that you could ever
648
00:35:19.559 --> 00:35:22.519
be in the category of a saint. It seems like
649
00:35:22.519 --> 00:35:27.239
there's always this tug with these ideas. At least for me,
650
00:35:27.320 --> 00:35:28.480
there certainly.
651
00:35:28.079 --> 00:35:32.960
Is well, I have to say this much that you know,
652
00:35:33.039 --> 00:35:35.440
a true saint wouldn't be somebody who would be looking
653
00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:38.280
to be added to the list of saints. A true
654
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:42.159
saint would be looking to grow closer to Christ and
655
00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:45.639
become holy that in that path. But I think that
656
00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.679
you know, there are two types of saints, right, capital
657
00:35:47.760 --> 00:35:50.679
s saints and lowercasees saints. Is that you know, we
658
00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:54.239
may we all might say, you know, my mother is
659
00:35:54.280 --> 00:35:56.159
a saint, or my grandmother is a saint, or I
660
00:35:56.440 --> 00:35:59.400
know somebody who's you know, she's a saint, and we
661
00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.519
might say that they probably will never be recognized by
662
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:05.239
Rome in this formal list of saints. There probably will
663
00:36:05.280 --> 00:36:09.519
never be this long and expensive and drawn out investigation
664
00:36:09.599 --> 00:36:11.960
into their lives and the search for miracles and all this.
665
00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:14.880
We probably will never meet a single person in our
666
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:17.960
lives who get recognized by Rome in this way. But
667
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:20.760
saint means somebody who's made it to heaven, and that's
668
00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:22.800
what we all want. We all want to get to heaven.
669
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:25.320
So whether or not we get that formal title of
670
00:36:25.360 --> 00:36:28.360
a capital s saints recognized by Rome, which is unlikely,
671
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.960
we all want to be saints in the regular way,
672
00:36:31.599 --> 00:36:34.159
the lower case way, which means we're in heaven with God.
673
00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:37.000
And that's really that's the only thing we should be
674
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:40.599
striving for in life. And so I think that yes,
675
00:36:40.639 --> 00:36:43.079
there is a certain push and pull in you know,
676
00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:47.239
nobody's searching for the glory of sainthood. I think people
677
00:36:47.320 --> 00:36:49.159
the true saints are those people who are trying to
678
00:36:49.159 --> 00:36:51.639
get to heaven anyway. They're just trying to get to heaven.
679
00:36:51.639 --> 00:36:53.679
And that's just the life of a saint to someone
680
00:36:53.679 --> 00:36:54.559
who ends up in heaven.
681
00:36:57.840 --> 00:37:00.719
There's so much in your book. I loved it. It's wonderful.
682
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:04.320
I love that it's written for the laity. You made
683
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:09.360
the whole process easy to understand. Is there anything you'd
684
00:37:09.360 --> 00:37:11.480
like to mention? And we've sort of neandered all over
685
00:37:11.480 --> 00:37:12.119
the place here.
686
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:16.000
There's a lot to cover, and I appreciate the chance
687
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:18.119
to talk about all these things. And I think people
688
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:21.440
are fascinated by miracles and how they work in the
689
00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:24.960
sainthood process, and I dedicated a section of my book
690
00:37:25.000 --> 00:37:28.800
to that very very concept. But I do want to
691
00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:30.960
mention that I have a great hope for this book
692
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.400
that it's used in schools at some point, because I
693
00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:36.800
think that for school children, learning about the saints is
694
00:37:37.639 --> 00:37:41.960
as important as anything we talk about doctrine and dogma.
695
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:44.800
And yes, it's very important that children are catechised in
696
00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:47.039
the right way, but I feel like the stories of
697
00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:50.519
saints are attractive. People can find out about these people
698
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:53.679
who walked amongst us and live these amazing lives, and
699
00:37:53.719 --> 00:37:57.199
our Americans who will become saints or our saints, and
700
00:37:57.239 --> 00:37:59.519
I think that's so important for people in our Catholic
701
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.079
schools and otherwise to learn about them. And I have
702
00:38:02.119 --> 00:38:04.599
the television series They Might Be Saints as well, So
703
00:38:04.960 --> 00:38:07.840
people who like the stories in the book can also
704
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:10.480
tune into EWTN and go to their website on demand
705
00:38:10.800 --> 00:38:13.119
and watch any of the episodes and see what these
706
00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:15.519
people may have looked like, see how they would live
707
00:38:15.800 --> 00:38:18.599
with a television series. So it's my great hope that
708
00:38:18.639 --> 00:38:21.519
at some point some school or school system picks it
709
00:38:21.599 --> 00:38:23.960
up to have their kids read the chapters of the book,
710
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.159
but then also watch on television as well, because I
711
00:38:27.159 --> 00:38:29.920
think that seeing examples of saints is the best thing
712
00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:30.880
we can do for our kids.
713
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:33.760
When you start to dig into the lives of saints,
714
00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:35.480
I mean you really find there really is a saint
715
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:40.119
for everything and everyone. That just amazes me. I think,
716
00:38:40.239 --> 00:38:44.119
especially when young people are choosing their confirmation name is
717
00:38:44.519 --> 00:38:46.760
and often a time when they really start to dig
718
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:48.960
into the lives of the saints so that they can
719
00:38:49.079 --> 00:38:53.920
find that name, that connection that makes sense for them.
720
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:57.280
I often think that my grandson Jonathan, a couple of
721
00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:00.760
years ago, when he was being confirmed, he chose Saint Crispin,
722
00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:06.039
who is the Saint of cobblers and shoes, because he's
723
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:11.960
a shoe person. He collects very expensive sneakers, and he
724
00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.679
was just absolutely thrilled to find that there was a
725
00:39:14.719 --> 00:39:20.039
saint interested in what he was interested in. So he's
726
00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:22.599
Jonathan Crispin now and love it.
727
00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:23.760
That's awesome.
728
00:39:23.800 --> 00:39:26.880
It really is a saint for all sorts of things
729
00:39:26.920 --> 00:39:31.320
and types of people and interests, and it's really fascinating
730
00:39:31.360 --> 00:39:32.599
when you start to go digging.
731
00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:35.480
That's absolutely right. And when I wrote the book, I
732
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:38.159
gave the book out to some friends thank you for
733
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:41.320
their support and to encourage them on their path to holiness.
734
00:39:41.320 --> 00:39:45.079
And I put a bookmark in a chapter that reminded
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00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.800
me of them. So I wanted people to read about
736
00:39:47.800 --> 00:39:49.880
a specific saint and said this, you know, this could
737
00:39:49.920 --> 00:39:52.519
be your saint or this person had it as a
738
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.639
similar path to you or a similar personality to you,
739
00:39:55.639 --> 00:39:57.320
you might want to read about them. So that was
740
00:39:57.639 --> 00:40:00.639
my way of encouraging people to connect with a particular Satan.
741
00:40:01.039 --> 00:40:04.440
With twenty two venerables and blesseds highlighted in this book,
742
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.719
they might be saints. There's someone for everyone in that book.
743
00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:12.360
Very exciting book. Great book for homeschoolers, just like you said,
744
00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:17.400
great to have it in the classroom. Thank you. It's wonderful. Yeah,
745
00:40:17.480 --> 00:40:18.519
where can people get it?
746
00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:22.400
So this is available where anywhere Catholic books are sold,
747
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.840
but I encourage people to go to e WTN Religious
748
00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:28.400
Catalog which is EWTNRC dot com and you can pick
749
00:40:28.480 --> 00:40:32.119
up the book through EWTN and if.
750
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:33.760
You're lazy like me, you can go to Amazon.
751
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:36.719
I assume anywhere the book is books are sold for.
752
00:40:36.679 --> 00:40:41.360
Sure, so bad these days push that button by now
753
00:40:41.639 --> 00:40:47.280
so bad. But yeah, I got down to w WTN
754
00:40:47.559 --> 00:40:50.280
some time ago and it's a wonderful place.
755
00:40:52.000 --> 00:40:55.599
Oh well, this has been delightful. Your book is wonderful again.
756
00:40:55.639 --> 00:40:59.280
It's called They're the Saints, and it's about the American Saints.
757
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:02.840
And how about you end us with a prayer.
758
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:10.360
Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee
759
00:41:10.519 --> 00:41:12.719
Blessed our thou amongst women, and blesses the fruit of
760
00:41:12.719 --> 00:41:15.559
thy womb. Jesus, Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for
761
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:17.960
us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
762
00:41:20.679 --> 00:41:22.480
You have another book in the works.
763
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:27.239
I'm working on a new book on eucharistic miracles and
764
00:41:27.280 --> 00:41:30.159
so that's the next book that'll be coming out from
765
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:31.280
e BT and Publishing.
766
00:41:31.679 --> 00:41:34.639
Oh wonderful. Well, I'm perhaps our path will cross again,
767
00:41:35.159 --> 00:41:37.639
I hope. So that's great. Thank you so much, this
768
00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:38.599
has been delightful.
769
00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:39.280
Thank you.
770
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:47.360
Hello, God's beloved. I'm Annabel Moseley. Author, professor of theology
771
00:41:47.480 --> 00:41:51.480
and host of then Sings My Soul and Destination Sainthood
772
00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:56.199
on WCAT Radio. I invite you to listen in and
773
00:41:56.280 --> 00:42:00.320
find inspiration along this sacred journey. We're traveling together to
774
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:05.440
make our lives a masterpiece and, with God's grace, become saints.
775
00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:10.239
Join me Annabel Moseley for then Sings, My Soul and
776
00:42:10.400 --> 00:42:14.519
Destination Sainthood on w c AT Radio. God bless you.
777
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.400
Remember you are never alone. God is always with you.
778
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:27.480
Thank you for listening to a production of w c
779
00:42:27.679 --> 00:42:28.519
ET Radio.
780
00:42:29.079 --> 00:42:32.400
Please join us in our mission of evangelization, and
781
00:42:32.519 --> 00:42:36.679
Don't forget Love lifts up when knowledge takes flight.