Hallowreads: Everything Dead & Dying

Garan: Welcome back to the Cavernada Comic Club. My name is Garen. This is Marsh, and this is a podcast where we talk about comic books. We haven't been talking about comic books for a while, but we're finally back at it for Halloween. And this month, all month long, we are having special guests. This is our first guest of the month, Andrew from Indie Comics. How are you, Andrew? Thank you for being here. I'm doing very well. Thank you so much for having me. I love it. Finally getting to talk to two. I know we've talked about it from the beginning that like we've wanted to have certain people on the pod. And you talk about horror comics a lot in a lot of your videos from different independent companies. And it was just kind of a natural thing to finally get you on here. And then when you recommended the book, something that we both have already read and loved, was very excited to get to dive into it again and talk to you about it because I I love your videos where you talk about things in detail because there's a lot of recommendations on TikTok, but not many people go into as much depth as you do and it's really lovely. So Well, thank you so much. It's so sweet. How long have you been a comic book fan? Tell us tell us kind of your origin story with comics and like your faves. It is. It's kinda crazy. I, you know, grew up loving all things comic books, you know. I guess when I was young, like the first X-Men, it's not ninety-seven, the one that came before that. That was the one that I kind of grew up with. Yes, yes. And so, like, I can't say that that was the height of, you know, X-Men popularity, but for me, it was like everything. And so was really into that and all the action figures in the games, and then like Spawn came out, which was my first introduction to like an indie type of title. And Once I kind of got into Magic the Gathering and video games and things, I kind of shied away a little bit from comics. And as you both know, it wasn't until a couple of years ago my son LJ Collects, who is also on the platform, he got into comic books. And then I was like, I guess I should get back into things, you know, obviously at this time. So that's where I kind of picked things back up. But it was it was like a 25 to 30 year break in, you know, anything comic book related, you know. So was really happy that he was getting into things and so here I am. Very cool. I'm glad you got back into it. Was that like a really cool bonding experience for you guys? Yeah, it definitely was. yeah, and I'll be honest, like, you know, when he started getting into comic books and we're driving him to all these different shops and things, there's a little bit of me that's like, we're busy today, you know, like he wants to go to another shop. But I quickly was like, Wait, like why am I getting upset at any way, shape, or form? Because this is amazing. And so, you know, the the whole indie comics channel started just really bonding with him. Like, hey, let's just do some videos together. And so that's really where everything started. And it was just a great experience. Like going and finding a new store and like looking through all the back issues and finding something that, you know, you didn't expect to find and being excited together over it was really cool. So yeah, definitely a bonding moment. Marsh, I bet that's something that you look forward to with Reed, isn't it? Like I just imagined y'all having a whole thing where you're trying to get him into comics. I mean if he gets into them, like I I would like I g I I have a feeling like like Chris is into cars, I'm into sports, I'm into comics, you know, stuff like that. He'll pick up some of those things. He might not pick up all of them, but he'll pick up a few of them. And if comics is one of them, that's cool. It's reading. Reading is al always good. But yeah, I just hope that he picks up something that Chris or I love. I think that'd be pretty cool. I'm manifesting that it's comics. He's gonna be getting a lot of presents throughout the years from Uncle Garrett that's just comic coded. Subtle. All X-Men. All X-Men comics. her son's birthday is coming up and he's really into Hot Wheels. And I have been trying to find Fantastic for Hot Wheels. And they really have only made them for in the seventies. And they're like old and rust. There's like a human torch one, and I'm like trying to find one in good condition, but it's it's kind of becoming impossible. Wow, I can't believe they haven't brought those back out since then. Mm-hmm. If they have, people are not selling them. That's all I can find anywhere. There's so many X-Men ones though, so it might end up being some X-Men stuff. I'll sneak something in there anyway. Since it is since it is Halloween, I do want to ask, Marsh and I have the same favorite scary movie. We've talked about it on the on the pod multiple times. Scream, what is your favorite scary movie? Okay, so I'm I'm gonna cheat a tiny bit. I actually have two answers to this. you were gracious and gave me a heads up on this one. the one of the first memories I have as a child in an old house that we had was sneaking downstairs and seeing my older brother watching Gremlins. And it just it was like scary, but not scary because of of Gizmo. And so I that one has always stuck to me. but as far as like scary movies, I I don't know if you would consider Constantine a scary movie, but that one, I just love everything about that movie. I love the religious aspect to it and just the ideology and all that. Just It blows me away every time. I love that one. if I say I haven't seen either of those movies, d do I get kicked off the pod? Like what what happens? No way. So it's funny that you say that because I had a very similar experience with Constantine as you did with Gremlins. my parents rented that. This is so specific. I have a very strange memory, but I'm pretty sure they they rented that Around the time of Hurricane Katrina. I know that I was home from school and we rented a lot of movies. And I like went in there after they told me I couldn't watch whatever it was and like hid and watched about 20 minutes and then snuck back out of the room and had nightmares all night long. So I would say that's a scary movie. I watched it as an adult a few years ago and it is scary. It's also really cool. It's really good. It made me want to read the comics. I haven't read much of them, but he is very cool. Gremlins, however, I watched for the first time last year on Christmas. I had never seen it before. On Christmas? Yeah. That movie is wild. It's a Christmas movie. Is it? Okay. Yeah. Okay. Like Die Hard to Christmas like Die Hard to Christmas movie? That's I would say that this is more of a Christmas movie. okay. Okay. Okay. It's insane. Yeah, I haven't seen either of those. I love that that was your origin. You you need to. You need to make it a priority to w to watch Greenlands, at least for sure. It's you're not it you're not ready for the experience. I wasn't. I was like not on any substances and I was like, I feel like I'm tripping. This movie is crazy. If you go back and watch some of those movies from that time period, you're always completely shocked at the things that were okay to put in a film or that were just strange and off the wall. Like it's it's insane. Mm-hmm. A l a lot of things. There is a movie that I always like can like conflate with Gremlins that because I've never seen it and it seems really iconic, The Goonies. I've never seen that and I don't know why any time brings up Gremlins. I think of the Goonies 'cause I'm like, I've never seen those films, but I've seen Gremlins now. That's actually what happened to me just now. When he said when he said Gremlins, my mom was like, Goonies, and I like, That's not what he said. Is that like a Mandela effect then? I wonder if there are more people out there that experience that. I've also only seen always had them together. I've only seen the first twenty minutes of the Unis. I haven't seen the whole movie. Well now you obviously have to start another podcast where you watch movies together and you talk about obviously. We we have discussed doing that for a on here. We we talked about rewatching Scream this month. There's no way to do it now. No. But but eventually we will we will start like venturing into that side of it all. We'll do a Patreon. Before we move on though, we yeah, that should be fun. And that way. We wouldn't get we wouldn't get our videos taken down because that's another thing. We can't really react to things on YouTube. They don't want us to do that. So I do have a question for you, Marsh, before we move on. what is your favorite scary movie other than Scream? I don't think we've ever talked about that. Have you ever heard of a movie called Cursed? Also by Wes Craven? Yeah, absolutely. That one. Christina Ricci, Jesse Eisenberg. Yeah. With Joshua Jackson. It's like a werewolf movie. Yeah. I used to really love werewolf movies. So like when that came out, I was like, that's it. It's it's not even a really good movie. I just think it's great. It's Camp. I love Camp. I love Camp. Me too. I'm trying to think though, like I'm trying to give you like a serious answer, because like I don't really watch horror. My sister's the horror person, not me. I just kind of go and watch them with her. but like if we're talking about like a movie that like scared me, scared me. what's that the newest Evil Dead movie? That movie that recently came out. We went and saw that in the theaters and like stuff was happening and I was looking at her and I was like, what in the actual is going on? The most recent one, the one that came out this year. no, no, okay. The one previous. The one before this. Evil Dead Rise. That one. With the cheese grater? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I I that's a movie that I saw that I was like, this is a great movie, but I would literally never recommend it to anybody. Yeah. It opens with a drone like landing in a guy's head. It's it's horrifying. It's a gr very graphic film. The whole the whole movie is horrifying. Yeah, yeah. but your answer for Curse though, like, I wouldn't say that that's like a cop-out answer because my answer is also camp. I really love the 2005 classic House of Wax starring Paris Hutton. You mean Chad Michael Murray? Cough. Yes and Chad and Alicia Cuthbert. Baby Jared Padalecki. I that movie is so camp, it's so bad. But there's something about it, it follows all of the formulas that I love in like the nineties slashers. But like it came out when I was like twelve, you know? And so I was like, I'm a teenager and this is cool. And so I have a lot of like good memories attached to it, even though it is a ridiculously bad movie. but that's that's always one that I'm like, watch House of Wax. And people are like, That sucked. I'm like, I know. No, I have okay. My real answer for my favorite horror movie is actually by one of our arch nemesis's or our arch nemesis nemesis, whatever. gear. It is Cabin in the Woods by Joss Sweet. As soon as you said Arch Nemesis, I said, Yep, it's Cabin in the Woods. I was talking about that movie yesterday. It's a good movie. I I can't think I have, no. So it's Josh Sweden produced this film and it was like stuck in developmental hell for years and it finally got to come out and it has young Chris Hemsworth pre Thor fame. but the film plays on all the tropes from like seventies and eighties horror movies and like there these kids, these teenagers go to this house and depending on like what they pick up in the house, that horror story starts happening and it's like being ran by like the government. and it's very cool. It's very good. Very funny movie. Might have to check it out. It's really good. you're talking about like camp movies. I'm I'm trying to think. There was one that stuck out to me that I thought about mentioning, but I can't remember if it's just like the worst movie or a really good one. It's called Idle Hands. my god. I don't know what that is. I used to watch that all the time. Let me let me look at the Devin Sauwa movie. Is that is that Devin Sauer? Okay. I saw a clip from it today with Jessica Alba. I remember watching that as a kid and feeling like I was gonna get in trouble because I was watching it. Yeah, Devin Sauer, yep. that no, so I do think that you're you're right on the money where you're like, I don't know if it's a really bad movie or really good. I feel like it's so bad that it goes back into good, and that's kind of my favorite genre. I love that. That's pure camp, actually. Love it. I'll put it on my list. On my never ending list. moving back to comic books for a little bit, what's everyone pulling this week? I only pulled the midnight titles, that's all for the whole week, so The Midnight titles are huge. I am picking up all of those. I've probably said it on videos before. Like I grew up loving superhero stuff, but I haven't quite found what I'm looking for for them recently, at least, since I've kind of got back into things. And so the whole darker aspect of some of the Midnight series, I'm hoping is like gonna hit that perfect spot for me. Cause I really I mean, X-Men was my favorite thing ever. Like Period, hands down. And so I really want to love it again. And I'm hoping that there's something about that that revitalizes it for me. but I have a feeling it's gonna be like very controversial for comic book fans for sure. Yeah, we were kind of talking about that earlier. I I've already read them and we talked about how we were worried that it was just gonna feel like absolute. titles. They do not feel like absolute titles in the slightest. They there's a lot of words in these books. So I feel like a lot of people are gonna be annoyed by how much reading there is. But I feel like for you, I feel like you will enjoy it. Also with X Men. Earlier you were talking about you liked the religious aspects of Constantine. the Midnight X Men of It All is dealing with a lot of Catholicism already in the first issue. Like specifically there's a character who is the Pope. They've already Marvel's already spoiled it. I'm not gonna spoil it on here because I was gagged when I read it. But yeah, I think that you will enjoy it. I think that you will enjoy that one specifically. There's a lot of layers to it. Hickman's kinda kinda eaten it up a little bit. I'm excited. What about you, Marsh? What are you pulling? I just have the three midnight titles and then Batman. So Unfortunately, well it's it's still the Bad Seeds event, which I don't care about whatsoever, but you know. I gotta I gotta pull it. If you don't mind, there's two other ones I wanted to talk about being pulled this week. Go for it. one which I think I think maybe you both like. I Marsh, I think I've heard you talk about it. Beneath the Trees Where Nobody Sees, there's a Halloween special that's coming out. So I'm very excited for that. Yeah. And then there's a new ignition press book called Minotaur that is very interesting. I'm excited to see where that goes. It's gonna be number three. And so the first two have been really great. And you know, I keep track of some of the ongoing series that are like really kind of you know hitting the itch for me, and that's one of them. So definitely looking forward to that one too. what is that about? I'm just curious. so the premise is that there is a professional photographer that is sent to India by like a ultra-rich person. So think of like an El Elon Musk type person, and she's going to investigate some type of paranormal activity that is happening around these giant trash, giant dumps essentially with tons of trash. And so it turns out that there is some type of materialistic components, some like futuristic components that are being dumped in the trash that are causing paranormal events. And it's just it's just a different type of story that you know, the type of plot I haven't really seen and surprisingly good. So we'll see. Very cool. You're gonna have to find the back issues because that does sound good. Yeah, it's with indie comics it's Tough because some are really big hits and then you have a lot of big misses, you know, from a story perspective. So it's it can be unforgiving, but this one seems good. That's cool. Yeah, no, I s I tend to pick up, I guess, the ones that aren't the the better ending ones. They they they sound good and I'm like, Cool, yeah. And I get the first issue and I'm like, that was that for me. I will watch some of your videos sometimes, and I'll be like Okay, cool. She's checking this one out. And then I'll go and read it. And I'm like, I hope she didn't pick that up because I said it. I like feel bad, you know. a little bit of comic news. Marvel Unlimited today announced that they are disbanding as the app is current as it is and Webtoon has kind of acquired the rights to the full digital library and Webtoon's making a new Marvel Comics app. Now Andrew and I talked about this earlier and I was like, we have big feelings about it, but then you and I talked about it again and you kind of alleviated some of my feelings. And then I read a little bit more into it. So the update is so existing subscribers, you will be able to like natively move your stuff over there. So anything that you have saved, any books that you've bought that are there on the digital app will be there. And they're starting out with thirty-five thousand titles day one. So it's not gonna be very much different. The thing that I'm worried about is the the fact that Marvel is making so many publishing changes. they have fired a good many of their staff over the last like six months. And then there have been rumors for months that this was gonna happen. That they were supposed to sell this to Webtoon by 2030 and phase out physical publishing. Was was the rumor from some inside source? I don't really see that happening for at least another decade if they do try to phase out physical publishing just because of like how popular things are. Sales have gone up drastically since Brand New Day. But the idea that we could live in a world where we're not getting physical comics anymore makes me really sad. Like I'd like I you know, digital comics are great for reading old back issues, but there is nothing quite like having a floppy. and and reading it, you know. what are y'all's thoughts on that and the current political landscape of comic publishing? I mean like I told you earlier, I said if if Marvel stops printing actual physical copies of things, I probably will be done. Like I there's just something like you said about holding it physically in your hands. Like I'll read like I have a fantastic four fifty. I'm not gonna read it. That's crazy. I'll read it on the app. I'll read it in one of my collected editions. But like, I don't know. I just I like holding things in my hand. I like to collect. My husband likes to call me a what is it? I like to go forge for comic books, like in the back issues and stuff. And if that's gone, like I then what's the point? Then what's the point? Like that's one of the coolest thing about comic books is being able to go and look for things that you've never seen before, look for stuff that you're looking for. They take that away. It just seems I don't know. Then everything's all digital. And we did that we tried to do that with Netflix and everything else, and I mean physical's coming back harder than ever. So obviously it didn't work. I'm interested in the new app though, because like they did say that they that they're making improvements to it. I'm interested to see what those are. Mm-hmm. I do like the fact that a certain tier gets you kind of like what the D C one does where you can get books up to a month previous. So like you you only have to wait thirty days to get the most recent issue. I think that's pretty cool for stuff that you don't want to pull. So I don't know. It it'll be interesting. I just hope that they decide not to go all digital because I think that's a little too crazy. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's I mean, it goes beyond just reading. You know, like there is an entire experience that's involved with holding something, collecting something, organizing them, you know. It goes even farther beyond that. You have conventions, you have local comic book stores, you have entire communities like us, you know, that would just be really, you know, it would be so destructive for that. And that would be really, really sad for something like that to happen. And as someone who played like Magic the Gathering for a long time, a part of that game is the collection aspect, like getting together with people at a store or at a kitchen table or something like that and building a community and talking and just interacting. You know, and for some people, this might be their only form of interaction with other people, you know. And so yeah, I I agree it would be incredibly sad, you know, for something like that to occur. I don't know. If we get to that point as a society, not to get too deep, you know, to where you don't have things like that, it's I can't even imagine it. That'd be super sad. And I also, Marsh, like I I don't know if I would continue reading, honestly. Yeah. I just I can't imagine that. I mean, I shared the story earlier about how my son and I he wanted to drive to comic shops. And so, you know, the whole idea of a comic book date where we drive five hours or whatever to go to a handful of shops, like you're telling me that's just gone? Like that'd be crazy. It would. Yeah. I d I hadn't even thought about that that aspect of it, the the dismantling of the community and the forced isolation that would create for a lot of people. That is sad. I yeah. I mean I also didn't think about the shops too. I mean, those are all usually mom and pop shops. People that have had shops for you know, at least mine now has been around here for like thirty years. Like you're telling me that I that can just go away because they decided that they want to go digital? That's crazy. And the margins are already like super thin for those stores. It's very difficult to to make it as a shop if they even make it at all. And so yeah, I'd be It'd be pretty crazy. And I mean, if you think about it, when the pandemic hit and collectibles were on the rise, like a lot of people were sitting at home and buying collectibles and comics and cards coming out of that period of time, they had that community. And like you can see now, I mean, well, Lane works, LJE works in a comic book shop, but like just watching the community build and build and build coming out of like the pandemic and seeing the resurgence of collectibles, it's been amazing. And so, yeah, the thought of that. even dying down even a little bit is it's incredibly sad. So Yeah, I it it's just like the conglomerate of it all because I do I do feel like that that's a decision made by someone who's not like invested in the actual customers. That's someone who just sees the profit margins. Like that's it. I I I couldn't see DC doing that, like even considering d like getting rid of physical at all because well, they you know, they're kind of at the top of the game right now. But these things do like shift. like the wind does. So hopefully hopefully we are a long way away from that happening. But this the selling an entire publishing company to a digital app is scary. So you know. before we get too depressed, we I well really actually left to talk about is the most depressing part of this episode. I'm not doing a detailed recap because again, I don't want to spoil anything for anyone. Sometimes we go into super deep ones today. I'm just gonna read the actual image comics description of the book. So also before I start this, I'm gonna tell you what the first thing says and tell me if y'all agree with this or if this is just really good marketing for image. It says The Last of Us Meets Yellowstone. I have not seen Yellowstone, so I don't know. But I was like, is it? Because my dad loves Yellowstone and he's always telling me to watch it, so naturally I'm not gonna watch it. But is it very Yellowstone? Okay, period. Not too far off. Okay, here we go. The Last of Us meets Yellowstone in this haunting rural character piece set in the aftermath of a zombie outbreak. Jack Chandler is the sole survivor of the zombie apocalypse in his rural farming community. But rather than eliminate them, he has chosen to continue living alongside the undead, including the husband and adopted daughter he fought so hard to have. But when his town is discovered by outsiders, Jack suddenly becomes the one thing standing in the way of his family and those who hope to kill them for good. Eisner Award nominated creators Tate Bromble and Jacob Phillips team up for this unforgettable original story. All right. So before we go into all the spoiler territory, what is everyone's like general thoughts on the book? What what what's the biggest thing you took away from the book, I guess? I'll I'll jump in. I've got I've been waiting to talk about this for so long. So thanks again to you both. I think the thing that struck me the most was just how much storytelling you can pack into five issues. And specifically the first issue, it's within the first few pages, you you kind of get an entire story of its own, just in a page or two. And that really struck me as like, I just can't believe there's so much story here because you read a lot of comic book series, and in this case, like a miniseries, to where you're like, okay, you know, that was great, but like it seems kind of thin and there's not a lot that comes out of it. But the in-depth storytelling mixed with like the societal aspects, how we view certain things as a society, how we think about zombie stuff. was really pushed in this one. And you wouldn't think you could ever get an original zombie type story. But here we are. So those are my immediate thoughts just coming right out of the the five issues. I liked how the storytelling went from like you saw the joyfulness from Jack and his perspective and it was all bright and colorful and all of these things. His memories were bright and colorful. And then like as we finally like kind of start shifting, you see like the color start fading away and like there's only parts of it in color and then like the rest of it just like gets overtaken by what's actually going on. I liked how they were able to sprinkle those moments into the book. I thought it added a lot of depth and made me care for Jack more than I would have if we weren't able to get those those moments. And also in the first issue I really liked how they were able to show how you can make a book so intriguing and but almost monotonous at the same time. It's like groundhog day. He's reliving the same day over and over again. And so I just thought it was very impactful how they were able to tell that story. basically like a groundhog day. I'm glad you brought up the coloring because I I do have a note Pip Martin's colors on this book, is kind of a masterful form of storytelling all in its own because you knew what the vibe is as the color faded and changed. with Pip's color style. there there's like something really emotional about the way the colors are used in this. And I'm glad you brought that up because that did stick with me as well. my general takeaway is that like this this book is a stunning meditation on grief. and it can be hard to read, I feel like, for certain types of people. So if you're listening, know that. if you struggle with grief, things like that, this might not be the book for you, or it could be a really revelatory book for you because. from beginning to end, the story that's told is hard, but it is beautiful. and I just the first time I read it, I don't think I realized how well the grief is handled in this and the allegory for grief. Not even really an allegory because it is pretty, in your face, but like the lessons that that were learned by the characters in this. it's just a really beautiful meditation on grief. and I liked it a lot. something that I will say is that like Jack's grief, I felt like it kind of became my own grief as we went through because we do spend so much time reliving that day and seeing the people that he loves, his husband and his daughter, who they were then and who they are now in it. I as you go on, I I just felt like I really, really cared. for them in a way that kind of blows me away because like you said, it's only five issues and just the way it's handled. So it kind of becomes your own journey with grief as well. At least that was how I took it. it was a very emotional read today. I will say even if I like talk about how sad it made me it's kind of a masterpiece to me. And I I do have bias, but I it is kind of a masterpiece to me. I think it's a a phenomenal, phenomenal story. Yeah, when you I'm hesitant to like throw out the term masterpiece, but I honestly, this is the type of comic series where you're like, I didn't know that things could be so in-depth in a comic book and so emotional until such a Strong story, it's it is mind blowing. And I think that it is a masterpiece because of that. now I haven't been, you know, reading comics consistently for the the 42 years I've been on Earth, but like this just feels like such a standout, and especially, you know, reading so many different types of indie comics that just don't hit anywhere close to this, a fraction of it. It it it's mind blowing how much more in depth this is than some other stories. And this is a good book to challenge someone if they're okay with the subject matter to say, I promise you, you would have never thought that a comic book could do this, you know. and I I don't know, that was my immediate takeaway. And and again, like like we've we've all said, like after five issues, like, come on. I mean, it's just you would have thought you read a book that's hundred of pages, you know. So it's so impressive. It it it really is. It it is truly mind-blowing how. in depth the story was for a mini series because I've I've read a lot of mini series this year from big big companies and I mean you early earlier you said you said they can be really thin we we like to call things nothing burgers that isn't that's a thing that a lot of people are saying on internet but we've read a lot of nothing burgers this year a lot of them so yeah do you have a specific one marsh you're looking mischievous over there cough rogue cough cough rogue cough I'm still grieving. You know, everything dead and dying, the rogue miniseries is that's what my journey was. No offense to the writer of the rogue miniseries, but that was a nothing burger. we can we can start going into a little bit more in-depth, spoiler-wise, if we would like now, since we've done our general. So if you are listening and you don't want to know everything that happens to the people in this book, we might talk about it. So go ahead and skip. to where there's 10 minutes left of the pod. That's what I'll say. I don't have a lot of very specific like moment notes, but I'm sure that I will talk about them as we go if anybody brings something up because there's there's so much that happens. I do want to say, I think that Bromble has a really masterful way at twisting the knife a bit. Like just a little bit at time as you go to where the pain doesn't really stop. Like it it makes it kind of feel personal by the end. And that's not an experience I have with most literature. so I would love to like have a conversation how this was crafted because like was this a painful experience to write? Because I don't know about y'all, but I cried a couple of times reading it today and I'm like, I already know what's gonna happen and it's just done so well that it hits the Second time. I think that one of the kind of hallmarks of a really good story is if I mean, I think everyone knows it's like if you can feel for the main character, like that's one of the checkboxes, you know, to creating a good story. And you're completely right with the twisting a knife comment. It's you felt for this character the entire time. it when there are moments where you're like, I can't see myself doing that, or if I was in that situation, I wouldn't have done that. Like this is not one of those stories. Like the whole time, you just cannot believe how difficult this is for Jack and just what he's fighting against and fighting to keep. and yeah, I mean the the whole way through, you feel for him, you feel the pain, and that's how one of the ways you make really good storytelling is you keep that momentum. And a lot of people talk about like the antihero, you know. I'm not saying in this book Jack is an antihero, but it's that same type of effect in which someone is doing things that you would never like personally agree with, but somehow, some way, you are justified in like feeling some type of emotion towards them in a positive light. And so you couldn't be more spot on, I think. You talking about the the antihero and you're there with Jack the whole time and you understand. I was gonna say who wouldn't do what Jack did if they if they could. But then we have that character, I is his name Sam, one of the v the villains in this who did kill his family as soon as they turned I really liked what Bromble did with bringing in a character that is kind of the direct opposite of of Jack's decisions. And I feel like it really pays off really well at the end with him like s like over him, tears streaming down his face, being like, I did what I had to do. I did it, you know? because You're right, the book does kind of force you to to think, like, I would never do this or I would never do that. 'cause it's just such such an unbelievable, unthinkable situation to be in. I just I trying to imagine it, it's not fun. The the idea of reliving that day over and over again with with the people that you love there but not really there. and just being stuck in that grief every single day. That's it it's just Horrifying like the grief is the real horror of this whole story. I feel. It's just so I I don't want to jump in again, but I I you that's one of the notes that I wanted to bring up is that whole thing where Sam was kind of like the exact opposite situation. Like he in the book, he says, like, I did what I had to do, like that type of statement. And it's almost like he's trying to justify himself to to Jack. You know, maybe somewhere deep inside of Sam, he's like, no, did I do the wrong thing or did I do the right thing? And so him projecting that to him, he's trying to help Jack see the right thing, but in the same way, he's kind of reflecting back on his decision. and so yeah, that that's great that you call that out because I was wanting to talk about that. that's the exact thought I had in that final scene. I was like, he sees what he could have had, even if it is, you know, not the most ideal situation to be in. He realizes he didn't have to kill his family, you know? and it's just brutal. 'Cause he is he is trying to convince himself, like in that. That that's directly what I took from it. So you talking about grief and how he's basically like reliving the same day. Over and over again with people who aren't there, right? Like he wants them to be there, but they're not. So my grandmother had Alzheimer's. And I remember when I was like eighteen or nineteen, I had to drop her off at her house. She lived like two hours away and she wanted to go home. So I was like, Fine, I'll drive her home. I drove her home, got her home, and she looked at me and she was like You're really pretty. Do you need to stay here on the couch? Or do you or do you know, do you need to drive home? And I was like, I'm gonna drive home because I can't handle the situation. And then a couple of years later, after we got her into a home, she kind of did the same thing. Like she knew who I was for like a second, and then all of a sudden it was like, You're really pretty and I was just like, I cannot be here. And so, I actually didn't see her again until She passed away because I couldn't I couldn't deal with that that sort of emotion. So the fact that Jack is able was able to do that for thirteen years to just pretend like his family was was okay as well as he can, kudos to that man because I couldn't do it. So that's crazy how a comic book can invoke such emotion. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I d you saying that I I don't think I would have ever like made a connection, but this it this could be a really good allegory for people who who do have family with Alzheimer's or dementia. Because that you you explaining that and like remembering like my grandmother, that is kind of exactly what it's like. Because there are moments where where Daisy realizes that's her dad, but then there are moments where that's not the case. that's that is horrifically sad. it made me think of something else I was gonna say, but I can't I can't remember it. So if it comes back to me, I'll come back around to it. The villains. Villains. How do okay. There so this this could be controversial. but this is just a a question I had while reading it, because when I read things critically, I do try to see where everybody's coming from. I do think that all of the villains in this are kind of really good examples of dehumanity. Like there are specific archetypes that they're in. Like you have the like the radical religious per like the zealot type character, and then you have you have Sam and you have The the mad scientist kind of vibe, the the doctor with no empathy, horny bigots, you have a a depressive kid who has a very, very happy trigger finger, who has no faith in the world, has no faith in the future, and is ready to to shoot the gun at any moment. I can see where all of them are coming from. But I also don't know if I would say they're full villains, specifically Sam, because they all come to this town in the hopes of finding something for their community. They don't come to this town to ruin Jack's whole thing, to ruin his life. and the initial confrontation was an accident, other than the depressive kid with a gun. Like that that's the hidden he did what he knew he was supposed to do, but he wasn't given the order. it's unless if I'm wrong, tell me. But it all was a misunderstanding and then it all becomes the complete dismantling of an entire situation for for our main character. and I wonder I just I wonder what you guys think about these characters, because they are clearly the villains in the story, but would you consider them villains? And if so, are all of them villains or are they all just people trying to do what they think is right? I guess that could be asked about any villain, but I did find the way it was handled to be really fascinating because other than the horny bigots, they all kind of have a good reason for being the way that they are. Well, one of the things I love the most about like a post-apocalyptic story is the characters and specifically the villains. It's really cool that you brought this up because I'm fascinated with the idea of how people change when put in this type of situation. And one thing I really, really like, you'd mentioned the depressive kid. I think his name was Zeke. I have a thought about him in just a moment, but most Post-apocalyptic stories are focusing on what the characters would do that lived in a world before and how they interact with it now that the apocalypse has happened, that type of thing. And so that's kind of the story trope or whatever you want to call it that we're all used to, walking dead or whatever, you know, that type of thing. The thing that we don't get that much of is someone who grew up in that world. And so Zeke, the kid who was depressive, he had the happy trigger finger, he specifically calls that out like. What future are you talking about? He's saying this to Jack. He's like, I grew up in this. Like there is this is there's nothing, you know. He was essentially saying something like that. And to me, that is fascinating and absolutely heartbreaking that some of these characters, in this case, the quote unquote villain, has no reference for like what the world was like before, what right and wrong was like before. And so for some of them, you know, they might be completely. incapable of thinking about why someone like Jack would want to hold on to the dead. And that is one of the things that I like the most about zombie stories, post-apocalyptic stories, is just thinking about how much of a unbelievable situation these people are put in. and I'll say one last thing and then I'll I'll stop yapping here. But Saying whether or not they are villains, I mean, I don't think that they would be classified like as a true villain in a story. because when you're in this setting, everything goes out the window. You know, morals and judgment, things like that are so different. And so the idea of Sam trying to hold on to law is about as close as you get to someone who's trying to not become the villain. I don't know. Interesting. Also, you have free reign to yap as much. You can yap. That's what a podcast is for. Sometimes I have to cut myself off. I mean this is where the this is where I'll say this is this is kind of where you can get into last of us territory. You said last of us meets Yellowstone, right? So this is where you can get into the last of us territory. Like, who are the villains and who are the heroes? Are th are they interchangeable? Are they the same? And so it's kind of like Forgive me. Ha ha has everyone played The Last of Us Part Two? Do we know how the story goes, Gare? Do you do you know the story of The Last of Us Part Two? You know I ain't played that game, but I know the story. So I I have I c I love horror. I I'll say this real fast. I love horror. The only medium I can't do it in is is video games. I can unless it's with friends, I cannot play a horror game by myself. I start sweating. I start I wanna throw up. I can't do it. But I have watched a playthrough of both of those games. Okay. So so like that but th th this is where I can kind of see that kind of come come to light here is like in The Last of Us Part One you have Joel who kills the scientist and then you see the repercussions of that in The Last of Us Part Two when the daughter comes and tries and basically kills Joel. So like it it it I I think that's kind of how like you can kind of see both of them can be good in both of them can be bad or evil, they're doing what they think is right in that moment. They're doing what's right for their group, for them. And that's kind of what's kind of going on in this story is they're not trying to be evil, but they're trying to find supplies. They're trying to find somewhere else to live because they're they're their their place has gotten too big, too many people. That's what even what Zeke said like they're they're overpopulating and they don't have enough food or water or anything for everyone. So they're trying to find somewhere new And they just so happen to stumble upon Jack and his b quote unquote paradise because he has a farm that's not been infected yet. so do I think that they're evil? No. Do I think that they could have gone a th around things better? Y yes. but I mean in but in a post apocalyptic world you're gonna shoot first and ask questions later, right? I mean that's that's what I would do, I I would assume. So I don't know. It's an interesting it's an interesting topic because I don't think in a post-apocalyptic world there can be truly bad guys unless you're like looters who are basically, you know, trying to kill people and eat them. Those happen. So those are bad people. Minecraft type shit. Yeah. But so I don't know. I don't I wouldn't classify them as villains, but I think after Jack kind of basically pled his case and they really didn't care, they were trying to get him to see their point of view, that's kind of when I s I start kind of like, hmm, leave the man alone. He he he's been doing fine on his own for 13 years. Let it let him keep living. Doing whatever he wants. Not being infected like Ellie. Sorry. Last of us is a video game of all time. So if I can like draw parallels, I will draw them all day. It's so good. you mentioned Last of Us, so this might not fit directly in with what we're talking about. But when I was reading this and you know, coming out with videos talking about the books that I'm excited about, a couple times I said that in the TV show on on HBO, The Last of Us, in season one, episode three, there's an episode with Nick Offerman that I immediately started thinking about when I was reading this comic book. And first of all, for anyone Even if you don't plan on watching The Last of Us at all, you should watch this episode because it is one of the most beautiful I don't know, storytelling, you know, episodes, whatever you want to call it, that's out there. And I've watched a lot of shows and I I stand by that. But, anyways, in that one hour of television, the amount of storytelling they were able to pack and also I felt like I knew those characters. Their whole life after I got done with that hour of television. I kind of felt the same way with everything dead and dying. I felt like I knew Jack's whole life story in a series of pages. And like it just blew me away. and that's not something I find in in comics, especially a miniseries, often at all. So you talking about Last of Us made us made me think of that. So if y'all should watch that. Nick Offerman won an Emmy for Outstanding Guest Actor. in a television series for that. And I mean, it is truly tr like just masterful storytelling. And he's incredible in it. that's that's funny that you say that. I did not even make that connection while reading it. And then you said it and I immediately felt it. Cause you're right. I you you do feel like you know them. And for his character to be based off of a character in the game that has very little backstory, they find a gay porn mag in the car. And like that's all it is. That's how you know. Like that that character is queer. and it's that yeah, that's masterful. I d I do wanna I wanna jump back for just a second to talk about a point that you made, Marsh, when you were talking about the the the other characters in it. because it made me think a lot of the conflict in this whole book, is one of my like most hated tropes in fiction, but it's one of the only times that It's done in a way that works so well. almost all of the problems are due to communication problems. say like the the initial conflict with them not knowing and them shooting first, and then the whole not coming together as a group and and making a decision, they're all at ends. There's like an intense power struggle between Sam and And I do not know the rid religious lady's name. Claudia. Claudette. Claudia. Claudette. She's French. Yes. there's that insane power struggle. And then there's people that side with her, and like kind of lean to what way the wind is gonna blow. And there's people that side with Sam. And because they are such a discombobulated group, there was never a chance for for Jack to have any To have his paradise. There was never really a chance for them to leave there and not fuck up his entire life. As weird as his life is, and the fact that he did need to, he did need to move on. There needed to be a catalyst for him to let go and try to find a way to live, like we see him do at the end at the end of the book. Without them, it never would have happened, but all of it, all of it comes to due to just bad communication. And I think that's so fascinating that so much plot. came out of that. When in other media, I can't stand it. in like a rom com, there's like there's the problem is always they just think the other's thinking one thing. They're not communicating. It gets on my nerves so bad because you could just talk. But in this everyone's talking so much, but they can't come to any agreement on anything at all. and I think that was very very fascinating too because for me it seems like all of the conflict arises from that. Claudette's character Is like one of the scariest characters I've read in a in a while. She truly would not listen to anyone. Like at all. Also, does anyone know what the French monologue was that she does at the end before she dies in the church? I meant to look it up today. Nope. I do find that it was really powerful without knowing. But like I was like, this isn't just an incredible idea to have to give this character who speaks two languages do their their final words like their their final speech to themselves in French. I thought that was a cool but she was terrifying to me. She was very scary to me. I love that you mentioned that because for a character that was so convicted that she knew the right thing to do, that she knew the right course of action to alleviate this conflict or whatever you want to call it, still in the end she was hanging on to religion and I I don't know. I don't need to go too much deeper into that, but I find that whole juxtaposition between the two things fascinating. you know, you're playing God. That's what you're doing in this story. Like you have decided that you know what should be done here. You're playing God, and in the end you're still that's how you go out, you know, on your knees, you know, kind of throwing yourself at at a God that you are playing in the story. I don't know. It's that was interesting. That was very eloquent way of putting that because you're absolutely right. She was trying to play guide. Yeah. And she she was so convicted. And then she just gives up. Yeah. True. we have we've covered so many of my notes already, you guys. I do I do want to talk about the the queerness of it all. just because I feel like it I would be doing a d a disservice to it if I didn't talk about it, even though I'm a little biased about the story and that like earlier when I said this is a masterpiece, I was like, there goes my gay ass again saying something gay as a masterpiece. But it like this in this case, it truly is to me. but I'm I I feel like this could have been the town that I grew up in. Reading it for the first time when it was coming out was r a really weird experience for me because being from the rural south, very small town, there's not a lot of great media. I mean, there's like Hill Billy Elegy and there's like there's other things, but there's not there's not media that I truly feels like something positive, even though There's some some rough topics in this. If if you are queer and you can't handle slurs, maybe don't pick up this book, but I th I think you should. I think you should read it. the way that Bromble Bromble is a queer person as well, but the way that he writes Jack, the hiding, the shame, like and how resilient he is as a character. well, this is something that we've talked about before. The the resilience of a of a closeted southern man is is it's a very powerful thing. and I think that that is a great like making this character a queer person and and and it not being like an edgy or like easy add in like, and by the way, he's gay. Like it it being so much of his story and validating kind of why he does what he does. He grew up in a place where all he ever really received was hatred from other people. There wasn't much love in his life. at all. And so the two things that he did love and then also his best friend are all gone. They're the only things that's the only love he ever really felt. so I I completely there was no other way for him. If and when he realized that he could feed them and they they still held on to their muscle memory and they still held on held on to knowing him, I think I would probably do the same thing. I re I like I do think I would if I was in that exact situation with the way that he was raised and what he went through. His dad calling him a faggot, his like the first love that he had, beating him up in the locker room when they got caught, and then eventually being the man that protects him and his husband in the street. That's so much. Ralph, R. I. P. Ralph. I just I just think that it was I think it's so much of like the heart of the story is is his queerness and the resilience that he he fostered from that. and I just think it's beautiful. I think it's beautiful and I wish that this was a book that was like so hyped that everyone picked it up. Because I feel like there are people out there who might feel a certain type of way about queer people. And if they read this, this might humanize us to them more. Because it it is truly like his story of how he grew up is the story of so many people, men and women that I that I've met in my life around here. And not the zombie part, but of everything else. and I just thought I just think it's beautiful. So I just wanted to talk about it on the pod. So if there is a queer person in listening, it is worth it. It is worth your time to to read it. Very sad though. Very sad. I I think j just to follow up on that, I mean, we talked about the episode from The Last of Us. I think that Those are so important because it shows people that type of situation that they would not see before. And I certainly don't think that children should read this this series. But I will say I watched The Last of Us with my son, who is 16. And when we watched that episode, it just it was really heavy, but it made me happy because it's something that he is exposed to and can learn from. And see a different point of view. And so, yes, you're right. Like there are some things in this in this series that are very strong. And for a lot of people, that can be very difficult to read. but you know, my takeaway from this is that it does change the opinion of someone or allows them to be more humanized towards someone that's different, that believes in things that are not the same as what they believe in. And so I think through storytelling, those things are possible. And this is just another example of that. And then one more quick thing is I love that even though he was so mistreated all throughout his life, he was still able to keep everyone safe in his own way, despite what had happened to him. Like this was his legacy. He was gonna take the things that had happened to him and maybe some of the stake mistakes that he had made, and just turn it around and make something beautiful out of it. And so yeah, I I just love that they were able to do that in the writing. I mean Wow. It's amazing. So do y'all have anything Specific about the book, Left, that you would like to talk about before we move on to final thoughts for it? I could talk about a part that like wrecked me, and I had to like look at my husband and be like, I don't want to have this conversation with my son when he's older. the part where Daisy's in the woods and she finds the dead possum and she's like, What's dead? And then he had Jack has to have that conversation about what death is. And then Daisy is like, Well, I don't want you to die. Like, I'm listening my son's about to be two, and I'm like already freaking out about that. But like him being able to like ask questions like that, like about death, just like big questions, like it has me terrified. But like, I know that's like together that me and Chris can like handle those situations, but like Him saying something like that to me would honestly like break my heart because there isn't anything I can do about it, right? Like everybody dies, and like that's just what happens, and there isn't anything you can do about it. And yeah, so yeah, that that moment happened, and I looked my husband was sitting right over there. He's not here right now, but he was right over there. And and yeah, I was like, I am not ready for these emotions. So speaking from a little bit of experience, You'll never be prepared for those moments. Cool. It's impossible. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Never. the one thing that I would bring up kind of in closing here is if you don't intend on picking up this series for whatever reason, but you do have the ability to open up issue number one and read the first two pages, I would really, really recommend it. because There are a lot of things that were very striking to me about this story, but the first page, front and back, involves Jack reading a, well, not really reading, but telling a story to his daughter, Daisy. And it is one of the most you know, kind of loving things you can do with the kid as you're, you know, settling in for bed, you're telling a story, you're reading a book. It's one of the most gentle things that you can think of. And the way that the storytelling and the artist work together, it was panel by panel. You would see one panel of him telling a story. The next panel would be of a shovel hitting dirt. And then the next panel is going back to the story. And then the next one is something that's a little bit, you know, oblique or like something that's sad or whatever. And just the the way that they were able to tell that, you slowly are learning that something is not right with Jack. Something is not right with Daisy and something is not right with the world you're about to be thrown into. We talked about masterpiece earlier. Like that is what I'm talking about. Like panel to panel, you're telling this incredibly thoughtful story. And it just blew me away. And so if again, if you have the the ability to read the first few pages, do it because it's crazy what you can achieve with a couple panels, some artwork and and some dialogue. And I knew just from reading those first few pages that there was something special I was about to start reading. and so yeah, that was that was the one thing that really struck me was how incredible storytelling can be just from a page or two. I love it. And then the callback to it, is it the end of that issue or is it later in the series the callback to it? It's the last there were a lot of callbacks throughout this. Okay. yeah. Very, very effective. And you're right, those first those f first few pages are incredible. I I I purposely didn't talk about them because like I was like, I'll cry. So I'm glad that you did. Because I was like, that there ain't no way I can get through talking about it. So any final thoughts, Marsh, before we do our ratings? I don't think so. Okay. Okay, Andrew. I think I've said all I could say. I couldn't want. Okay. no surprise for me, it's a five out of five stars. but don't feel pressured to give it a five out of five stars just because I'm gay, everyone. Five out of five for me as well. It it hits every checkbox for me personally. And even if I don't care about even if you're someone who doesn't care about zombie apocalypse, you don't care about love stories, you know, depressing, sad stories. I think you are doing storytelling a disservice if you don't agree that this is just a wonderful example of what you can do in a comic book in a short story. So five out of five. I am also a five out of five. I didn't it it's been a five out of five since the since I read it the first time when it came out month by month. and then just being able to reread it like all together and once when one sit down was a treat. So yeah. You see five out of five. Glad you said that because early earlier I was like, this was a very different experience for me reading it a second time. It was a five out of five then. But what was it like for y'all reading it again? Did you was it a different experience w with it being one complete story versus month to month? Or did like, did you get more out of it than you did the first time? Cause I did, but I was like, I don't know if that's just because I was busy or if it truly is a story that should be read all at once. This is the type of comic that issue by issue I was reflecting at the end. So I don't I don't do that with many stories. But when I reach the last page, I'm just kind of sitting in silence a little bit because it the subject matter is so heavy and the themes that it are hitting on, especially as someone, you know, who has children. and for you, Gare, someone who finds himself in a similar situation to some of the characters, it's like, I had to think about it. Like, what do I actually think about what I just read? What did I read? You know, like this is crazy. And so the reflection on this one was issue to issue, something I really enjoyed. but I will say, like reading it all in one sitting, definitely a different experience. And I don't want to say that it was too heavy, like from my perspective, but like it was all encompassing, you know, from an emotional standpoint for sure. yeah. It's interesting that you say that you reflected on on the issues because I did as well. But I also realized that there aren't many issues that I reflect on after I read them. But I was actually looking at my wall behind me as you were speaking. And escape is also one of the ones that I'll read and like I'll have to sit with it and I'll have to think about it. And like I'll probably end I end up rereading it after I'm done. so I just I found I just thought it was cool that you also reflected on it. reading it just reading it all in c like together, I don't know. It's just it I didn't sit with it as long, right? But it it felt like something that needed to be read together rather than like reading it and then reflecting on it and then waiting the next next month for it. And then kind of having to remember what you read. I tend to have that problem where I forget kind of what I read the past month because I read read too many books. So for me it was it was just nice to be able just to read it all together as like one complete story. It feels like something that that s sits better as a complete story than rather for me than reading it month to month. Y'all y'all talking about relating to it as parents. That that's something that like I couldn't I can't relate to because I'm not a parent. That is not my journey. I respect all parents. Y'all y'all are doing the hardest work of all. but I cannot imagine what it was like reading that as a parent. Like the like the scene of the d like any of I g I'm I was gonna say a scene, any of it, honestly, because yeah. I d I do there is something for everybody in this book. So I'm glad I can't relate to the to the specific pains that y'all felt. So well, all right. we shall move on to the final little bit of the of the episode. Every week we do a pop culture pitch where we talk about a piece of media that we are really into currently. because it's Halloween, I'm gonna do a horror movie, but do not feel any pressure to talk about a horror movie. If you're watching a really cool YouTube channel, you can talk about that. Marsh, do you have anything pitch-wise this week? I mean I've picked up reading Chris Claremont's run on X-Men today. So that's that's where I am. and I've been reading re rereading Dan Slot's run on the Fantastic Four. So I've been flip-flopping between those two. hit a really cool part in Chris Claremont's X-Men run. Madeline and Scott are apparently engaged. Spoiler alert from you know forty years ago to anyone who's listening still. And apparently she's the Phoenix. Wild. I don't know. My son woke up from his nap, so I have no idea what happened after that. and then I am, like I said, rereading Dan Slot's run on Fantastic Four. I've I've previously spoken about this and I can remember why people don't like it. 'Cause that's where I am right now. It's fine. The first couple issues were great and now it's just fine. Reed seems like Reed Reed feels like he's so out of character it is ridiculous. And Doom like captured Galactus and then put him in Mount Doom to like capture the power cosmic and like he was like harvesting it. It's a whole thing. Anyway, that's so maybe Reed X-Men, maybe skip dance slots around not Fantastic Four. Ha ha ha. Thank you for your pitch. Andrew, what about you? Is there anything of pop culture media? Anything that you want to talk about? Yeah, I just reflecting on everything Dead is dying. there are a couple books that kind of invoked similar, not nearly anywhere close to this. but there is a miniseries by Onipress. I think it's Onipress. I'm gonna feel bad if it's not, called Skin Police. Two. And it is only like six issues or something like that, but it invoked certain emotions very similar to what Everything Dead and Dying did for me, and which it makes you look at a certain situation very differently from from what you would normally. And so the very quick pitch to that story is that there are people that exist and then they have duplicates. So it'd be like myself. And then there's a duplicate of me that's out there in the world. And maybe or maybe not, I would run into them. But this portion of the series specifically involves someone who finds their duplicate and they are in a direct opposite and opposing position from where they are. And the reason it reminds me of this is you see the one side of the quote-unquote normal person, and then you also see the other side of the person who is the duplicate, and You humanize with both of them at the same time and it forces you to figure out which one you agree with and how they interact. It's just it's a really great series that I feel no one knew about. and so anyway, Skin Please 2. And then also we talked about Last of Us. there's another indie comic that came out earlier this year called White Sky. it's not extremely strong. But it is very, very good if you like The Last of Us, you like post-apocalyptic stories. And there's so much for it that it could open up into. And I'm gonna be really sad if it doesn't open up into what I think. And so that's another pitch I wanted to give out that I'm really excited about. I haven't read issue six yet. if it doesn't keep my attention it might get dropped though. It's it's tough. I see so much promise in it, but I I I I agree with you. It's rough at times. Yeah. It started off really, really strong. Like the first couple issues had me and then slowly but surely it's kinda like not hitting the same boxes for me that I thought it was gonna hit. I'm hoping it picks back up. but we'll see. Mm-hmm. I'm trade waiting for wide sky. I've never heard of Skin Police 2 before though. So I'm gonna have to look that up because I have always loved stories where there are like double gangers or duplicates of people. and I've been reading a lot of duplicate stories in the X-Men books right now, so I think that would be right up my alley. What you said Oni Press? I think it's Onipress. and it came out last year. there is a skin police, not Skin Police 2. I have those issues, but they're in the ever-growing list of to be read. it is Onipress. it's just I heard no one talking about it. and I was blown away. I knew nothing about it, picked it up on a whim just based off the description. And again, it's one of those indie stories that really pays off, I think. And it's a mini-series similar to everything's dead and dying. and I feel like there's something for a lot of different people in this story. So I highly recommend it. definitely be looking it up then. Same. okay my pop culture pitch for the week is it kind of in line with everything Dead and Dying in that it's set in like this idyllic rural town in the Australian Outback. And it's a very religion forward town, but it's about these Two queer teenagers that how do I explain this? they're forced to undergo like a supernatural conversion therapy, in which their parents hand them over to this this preacher, this pastor, and he performs this ceremony on them and it summons forth a demon, essentially, that presents itself as the person that they're most attracted to. And if they interact with the demon if they act on their impure thoughts of homosexuality, then the demon kills them. And it is a horrifying film, first of all. That that whole premise is horrifying. There's a lot of it it's a film that's about religious trauma in queer communities, essentially. That's what all the metaphors are, even though, again, like like in everything dead and dying, it's pretty on the nose. but It's just incredible. Like it's really good. The acting in it is so good. The writing is so good. The horror is a bit tough to watch at times. There's not a lot of gore, but there are scenes where you're like, How the hell did they film that? Like what did they do? it's just and it's it's new. It came out this year. It's just great. it it kind of reminds me of the film It Follows. I don't know if anyone has seen that, but it's that that movie's about a sexually transmitted demon. Essentially, where if you have sex with someone, they pass this demon on to you, and the only way to get rid of it is to give it to someone else. But it will eventually always find its way back to you. And so it's similar in in that aspect. There's like sexual trauma, there's religious trauma in Leviticus. And yeah, I just highly recommend it. Mia Vasakovska, who played Alice in Alice in Wonderland, the Tim Burton. Back in back in our high school days, Marsh, she plays the mom of the main character. And the way that she plays the role is truly chilling because she she plays a mom that has lost her partner and has fallen into deep, like radicalized religion. And it's just yeah, it's a very fascinating film. So That is that is my pitch for the week. As I was saying it, I'm like, this is a bummer. Like this movie is a bummer. No one's gonna watch this. You should watch it. It is really good. It is really, really good. And it has an ending. I'm there's an ending that is n neither happy nor sad, but it has an ending that's really good. That's what I'll say about it. And it's it's called Leviticus, right? This is the one we talked about before, right? That like had like a small like opening. Okay. Yeah. very, very small US opening, but you can now rent it and like stream it. and it like that was what the reason why I even watched it, typically I don't I don't engage with media that could be triggering to me unless I feel that there's a good enough reason. Like we talked earlier, Andrew, where I was like, I think this is a story that should be told, everything dead and dying. I think that the story of Leviticus is one that should be told. but the reason why I watched it was because it had a tiny US opening, but a lot of people were talking about it. Like people were driving hours to go see it because of the initial reviews from whatever Australian Film Festival. And then I watched it and I understood. so yeah, I absolutely recommend it. If it I I would say that it's a pretty good starter horror film if you don't like a lot of horror because it's not super jump scary. The the the true the true scary thing about it is that it's a reflection of some Towns in the world. So other than the demon. But yeah, imagine. Imagine a demon that looks like the person that you're in love with the most. You don't know. Sounds awful. It's wild. Actually. It's scary as hell. Harry Styles would be walking up to me in the grocery store and I'd be like, hello Harry Styles. And then I'd be dead in the grocery store. But yeah, that is my pitch. Love it. Any any final thoughts before we wrap this up on anything. You can have any random thought. Final thoughts at the you are both amazing. Thank you so much for letting me chat with you for a bit. Thank you for coming, Chat. This was fun. Absolutely. This was a lot of fun. You're f free to come back anytime you want. we we really enjoy talking to other comic fans. And yeah, this was a great conversation. So thank you for coming. everybody follow at indie.comics on TikTok. You can see his name below his face, but if you can't or if you're listening, I N D Y. yeah. There are there are people that listen. Mostly that's who loves who listens to the podcast. I look at myself and I forget we're on Spotify. Indy.comics. But yeah. thank you for joining us and Marsh, same time next week. Same bat time, same bat channel.