00:00:00
Speaker 1: Hey!
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Speaker 2: Woo!
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Speaker 3: Hey!
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Speaker 1: Woo! Caroline, she's a queen of talking Hey, what's on your mind?
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Speaker 3: She's getting real, not afraid to fail Take her soul to.
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Speaker 1: Soul, just let her flow No one can do it quite like Caroline It's time for.
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Speaker 2: Caroline Well, what a thrill to be here with John Foreman, the lead singer of the legendary band Switchfoot.
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Speaker 3: What's up?
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Speaker 1: Hello. I'm glad to be here.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And you're on tour right now because you said you are currently in Birmingham?
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Speaker 1: We're in Birmingham, Alabama. Birmingham.
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Speaker 3: How long are you on tour?
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Speaker 1: We have 43, 46 shows. And it will bring us to Thanksgiving.
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Speaker 2: So do you have a rhythm with your tour life? Because I'm married to an artist as well. And I don't know if you know them.
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Speaker 3: You're on tour. You sometimes tour with Lit, Jeremy Popov, right? From the band Lit?
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Speaker 2: Okay. Well, he's our best friend. He's the godfather to my child. My husband is Michael Hobby from a band, A Thousand Horses. Y'all may have crossed paths out there in the world. Yeah. I'm married to a musician, and so I just know touring is a nonstop thing.
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Speaker 3: At your point in your career, you've been doing this now for, what, 30 years? Is that right? Like 10 million albums plus sold. I mean, you've just exploded. I mean, everyone loves.
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Speaker 1: Numbers and numbers and things, yeah.
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Speaker 3: And awards and accolades and all the stuff. But you've been touring for like 30 years, right?
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Speaker 1: Yes. I mean, it sounds... it sounds like a lie because that seems like such a long time, but yes. But it's also like, on the other hand, it feels like I've been doing it my entire adult life, which is also true. We basically, our first tour was when my, our record came out a couple of days after my brother graduated from high school and we went to Europe like that, that week. And that was our first tour. And we, yeah, that's kind of like, since then I've, I've since dropped out of college and, um, that has become kind of the education, you know, along the way, trying to figure out, um, how to make sure promoters pay you. And, you know, like there's so many things that you learn along the way.
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Speaker 3: Um, hard lessons along the way, right?
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Speaker 1: Hard lessons, but beautiful. Um, I think Yeah, there's so many things that can be put under the heading of education. And I think, you know, math, you know, there's certainly life skills that you can learn anywhere. But I actually loved college. I loved learning. I got good grades. But this was kind of back in the day when the teacher, the professor would say, hey, you need to be here for the test. And there was no like internet option to say i'm gonna be in birmingham alabama can i take the test online.
00:03:27
Speaker 2: Well my question too is how have you maintained your sanity in your life just to you know just want to hit all the big points how do you maintain your sanity and your life and because you have a family life as well right yes how do you maintain.
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Speaker 1: That yeah that's a good question um So I think every season brings its own challenges. And I think many times when we look at a tree, we see what's on top of the surface of the soil. And, and I can find a lot that, that I can, you know, look to the branches and the leaves and the yearning and the reaching upwards. And I feel like I can relate to that. There's a lot of, that, that happens, especially early on as a band, you know, you want to be noticed, you want to be heard, you want to be, um, get your music out there. I think more and more, I'm realizing that what happens underneath the surface is way more important than the stuff that happens on, on the top that you can see. Um, and so I think digging into the soil, um, the bones of failure, the the death of dreams, the ghosts of all that we were and are no longer.
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Speaker 3: You're so poetic, John. It sounds like a song, the way you were just talking.
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Speaker 1: No, that's, I mean, I do, that's where my head's at as far as sanity and rhythm and where to invest myself. Because I think that those are the things that will sustain me through winds and through droughts.
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Speaker 3: It's really a wild one out there.
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Speaker 2: I really have been, because you guys started off faith-based and you still are, right? That's like the centerpiece of you guys, but I feel like you are so mainstream too.
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Speaker 3: How do you do that?
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Speaker 1: I don't think that there is a human who is not faith-based.
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Speaker 3: You don't think so? People deny it all the time.
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Speaker 1: I think that if you got up in the morning and didn't kill yourself, even if you do kill yourself, that's acting on a worldview. Every action is a faith-based initiative.
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Speaker 2: Okay, wait, break that down more. I like this, and I feel like I already believe it, but I need more details.
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Speaker 1: Well, like, you put your ear pods in because you believed you could hear through them. You chose to put both feet out of bed this morning and get up because you thought that there was something that today had to offer. This is the stuff, again, under the soil that, like, it kind of goes without saying, but um, yeah, there's no one that's outside of the weird religious belief systems that we all come to the world with, whether it's, um, you know, the idea, the belief that there's an invisible line that separates millions of people on one side and millions of people on another.
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Speaker 3: Like, what do you mean? Oh, like politics?
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Speaker 1: Like we've got, we've got a, a, an entire nation that separated from the North and the South and like the idea that these pieces of paper will pay for things. That's a, that's a faith based initiative, you know?
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Speaker 3: So like, this is very profound. You're quite the philosopher.
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Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but I, I do have a lot of time to think out here on the road.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: I mean, I, I grew up on, you know, whether it's rage or beastie boys or, you know, bad religion and, um, propaganda, like whoever, um, op Ivy, these were bands that, that really sang about things that, that they would invest themselves in. Um, I, I feel like all of my favorite music has a deep, deep rooted sense of self soul identity. Um, you know, so, and like, um, Greg from bad religion, um, He is a naturalist. He calls that his belief system. Darwinism, naturalism, survival of the fittest. That is a belief system. So like, I feel like I, and I really admire him within the intellectual university milieu to adopt that stance to say, no, it's a belief. It is, it is the way I'm going to live my life. And, but yeah, that's, that's why I, For me, I think then you come to selling things. So I think when it comes to a label you put on music, that's usually a box you put something in so you can sell it. And so I'm reticent to put our music into any box because I feel like it's done for commercial purposes rather than like the integrity of the art.
00:08:34
Speaker 2: You know what I was thinking about today during yoga? And I mean, I'm just gonna throw this out there. If you think this is too far out, I'll definitely pivot from it.
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Speaker 3: Okay.
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Speaker 1: So I've already gone too far out.
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Speaker 3: Well, I figured in my head, I was like, he might be the one to talk to this about because.
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Speaker 1: This is, I was sitting there weird enough.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
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Speaker 2: You don't meet these people every day. And when you do, you got to take advantage of the conversation. So I was thinking in yoga, cause I've like.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: Been a little bit fearful of the world lately.
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Speaker 2: And I've like, You know, whoever that dude was that came on and was like, AI is going to kill us all in 10 years and all that. And so then I was stressing out about it because I was like, oh, no, we're going to die in 10 years. And my daughter's seven. And, you know, we're all just going to blow up in a nuclear attack and it's just over because I tend to go quickly, very dramatic.
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Speaker 3: And then I have to pull myself out of it.
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Speaker 2: But then I was thinking in yoga, I was like, what if actually we are all just in this big ascension process right now? And AI is universal consciousness because the big problem with AI is that we can't, there's no boundary.
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Speaker 3: So it kind of, you tell it to do one thing.
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Speaker 2: And it kind of just goes rogue until it accomplishes that thing without any boundaries.
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Speaker 3: But if we can.
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Speaker 2: Harness it, then maybe this is universal consciousness. And if it is used for good, then if we're all plugging into this good universal consciousness, maybe that is a good thing ultimately.
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Speaker 3: I was like, it could be positive.
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Speaker 1: It could be.
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Speaker 3: It could be. Why not go that way instead of the other way?
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Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I.
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Speaker 1: Don't know enough about AI to weigh in.
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Speaker 3: I'm a total idiot. I'm like a total idiot.
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Speaker 1: All the ones that the people that do are They say things that terrify me. I know. I'm with you on that one where I'm like, oh, man. But then again, I kind of go with all of these things, the fears. I think for me, I think it has very little to do with my actual life. You know, I can be so afraid. Like, have you heard the expression? It's this comedian. He's like. I don't know what people are talking about when they say that worrying doesn't do anything, doesn't work. He's like, worrying absolutely works. Everything I worry about doesn't actually happen.
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Speaker 3: Oh, so put on your worry list what you don't want to happen.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, worry about it for a couple hours and it's never going to happen.
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Speaker 3: That's a good point.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to surrender even my terror of AI. And if that helps you surrender, then maybe that's.
00:11:14
Speaker 2: The way forward.
00:11:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think I'm at that place too.
00:11:17
Speaker 2: And this brings me back to faith, which I think brings me ultimately back to like your music.
00:11:22
Speaker 3: And I come back to these kind of things.
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Speaker 2: I feel like my faith has gotten stronger than it ever has because I literally have no other option. You know, like I've tried as a human being who has been very curious to understand life and I've wanted to figure things out on my own and I've gone crazy. on all my own journeys, different roads to uncover the mysteries of life. But what I have come back to now is like, you have to have some sort.
00:11:49
Speaker 3: Of faith, like you said, or else like it's, especially now, what are we doing? I personally can't make it.
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Speaker 2: And then just surrendering it over and aligning with kind of what you were saying, just like doing my life, following my what's meant for me, then I can just sort of keep my blinders on and where I'm called to serve with my life, do that. But then you just kind of can't worry about the whole rest of the world because it's too overwhelming, in my opinion.
00:12:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think back to the idea that like you, you have humans, you know, let's say 3000 years ago, 5000, however many thousand you want to go back. And what in our existence would they would they relate to? Nothing, right? Like this conversation having on screens would be impossible, like cars, electricity, even what I do on stage, this loud electric music, it'd be absurd and strange. And yeah, I think of that, what that does to the nervous system of having access to all the information that we have access to. And I do think that there's, Something maybe what I'm hearing you say, I can definitely relate to kind of grounding, meditating and and reminding myself of my own limitations and and finding myself there so that I can love others, you know, from that place.
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Speaker 2: So when you're on stage, this is a question I really actually want to know. when you're on stage and there's all these people there and they like genuinely love you, like love you. Like when someone is an artist like yourself, who is a beloved artist, like you are loved. They have incorporated you into their life. You have been a part of their families, like traditions and experiences.
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Speaker 3: Like, you know, I'm sure you've been, your music.
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Speaker 2: Has been in the room when people got married, when they've had babies, when they've people, people have passed away at big events. You know, it's like, You create this music and then it goes into the world and you have had the, your vibration and ripple effect has hit so many people in a positive way.
00:14:02
Speaker 3: How does that feel? Do you feel that connection to all these people?
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Speaker 2: How does it feel knowing that your energy and what you're creating is truly shifting people and truly impacting their life? Does that feel Do you feel like, is it overwhelming or is it just like, this is just who you are?
00:14:21
Speaker 3: This is who you were made to be.
00:14:22
Speaker 2: Like, how do you handle all that energy of people putting it back on you?
00:14:26
Speaker 3: You know, cause it's coming back to you as well.
00:14:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, that's so funny. I don't have any, like, you'd think that I would have a, like, well, here's what you do. A solution. I have none of that. I do. I'm so honored when people use our song or connect with our song. Have you heard of, um, resonant frequencies?
00:14:49
Speaker 3: No, but I want to.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Okay. So in physics, every object with matter has a resonant frequency that it will vibrate at. So the particular tension of the string and the diameter of the string, when you pluck it, it makes a certain note, right? With overtones. If you sing that same note near the string, the string will just vibrate on its own because the waves.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: Travel from your mouth through the air and they begin to vibrate the string, right? That's called sympathetic resonance. And I think that ideas have sympathetic resonance as well. Like when somebody says something that moves you on the inside, it feels like it's sympathetically resonating something within you. You're moved, you know? I think the way that I handle any form of like other people's projections on me on stage I'm very aware I am just the banks of the river, that something greater than me is passing, that I am trying to get out of the way of rather than trying to pretend is me.
00:16:02
Speaker 3: Really? Have you always been that way or did you learn that?
00:16:05
Speaker 1: I think it's very dangerous to think that you matter because of something that you wrote or any of those things because I've done that. I think.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: Finding your worth and your identity in your, in your work is not a new thing. We all do it, but it's a dangerous game because then when people don't find what you're doing, you know, to be resonating with them, then suddenly you don't matter anymore. So I've been trying, especially recently to find again, roots that, dig deeper than that. And, you know, every night that is one of my prayers is that, you know, the same thing that moves me to play music would move the people in the room, you know? And that's something that feels mystical, magical, spiritual, beyond me, transcending me. And that's what I'm hoping happens. Because if it's just me and six strings on a guitar, that's not really what I'm interested in either.
00:17:20
Speaker 2: So do you set an intention before you go out there? Is that like, is that something you do consciously?
00:17:27
Speaker 1: Um, yeah, there, there were three things. So we, two nights ago we played, it wasn't Richmond. Where was it? Um, yeah. So two nights ago we played and I, and that was my intention was like, okay, That was the main thing is, you know, and, and yeah, I grew up in the church. My dad's a pastor and I grew up in and around spiritual things. And I think, you know, when you're a kid, you take it for granted that that's just what everyone knows. But I do feel like a strong connection with, with the spiritual world and an awareness there. And, I, for years, kind of fought it. You know, I went to UCSD, which is, I wanted to be a doctor, medical student, and, you know, the world of matter. I was an economics major. I was like, okay, econ, I want to be involved and completely educated.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: So this is why you loved college.
00:18:39
Speaker 1: I loved it, yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker 3: But you didn't finish.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that that marriage of like, Actually coming back to the roots of the spiritual world that I came from is crucial. And that's a lot of times negated by the material world is why songs matter. But I keep coming back to them because they change me on more fundamental levels than like the American dollar ever could.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: I love that. So you'll have a new album. It's the first one you've had in five years, right?
00:19:15
Speaker 2: Yes how did this how was it time how did you know it was time and i'm obsessed with the the concepts of so many of them but especially the two twins yeah that's a great song oh thank you that's so cool and the butterfly flag and breaking up again like i think i feel like you're really exploring these topics because i um the two twins It's so cool because what?
00:19:42
Speaker 3: It's like you think, what if that's the.
00:19:43
Speaker 2: Whole world is you're in that, you know, before you're born with your twin, you're.
00:19:48
Speaker 3: A warm little, you're a warm little cocoon.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: Right.
00:19:52
Speaker 3: And then you don't know.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: That is your whole world.
00:19:54
Speaker 3: That's your whole world.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. So tell me more about how you came up, put that into the song because that's so it's also relative, you know?
00:20:01
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:20:02
Speaker 1: Um, you know, it's really funny. So apparently I love Henry, Henry Nowen. He's, uh, author that means a lot to me and i had i was invited to play a couple songs at uh experience where he was his writing and his work were at the center of it and um and unbeknownst to me that was a story that he had either written or had passed on famously talked about and i come back from this retreat and our drummer chad's like oh do you play two twins And I'm like, no. He's like, why not? He's like, I don't know. He's like, that was Henry Nowen's thing. And so the point being, I had my one opportunity to play the perfect song that fit this one moment. And yeah, the story came to me. A friend of a friend gave it. We were talking late one night, and that story came out. But apparently, I think Henry Nowen is known to have told it kind of like as a parable. But I love the idea that we are all blind to our blind spot. And I think that that song reveals it with humor.
00:21:18
Speaker 3: And then what about breaking up again? Because that's with yourself.
00:21:21
Speaker 2: I feel like I am fully divorcing myself. Like I am done with this past version of myself. I'm like, we are broken up forever, past self.
00:21:28
Speaker 1: Never, ever, ever.
00:21:29
Speaker 3: Ever getting back together again. I'm done. Like ever.
00:21:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So this whole album....
00:21:39
Speaker 3: Forever Now.
00:21:40
Speaker 1: Forever Now is the juxtaposition of the two states of being that humans are always in. Which is? We are always, we're never in the future or the past. We cannot exist in those states. As much as our head might, you know, fear AI in the future or regret things we've done in the past, we are here right now. You and me, Caroline. Right here.
00:22:04
Speaker 3: Here it is.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: And....
00:22:06
Speaker 1: Yet within us is like written upon us is eternity. This beautiful idea that we are connected with something bigger than ourselves, something bigger than, you know, the moment and our kind of animal urges, whatever it is, justice, love, beauty, truth. So the- Power, control. Yes, yes. The album is an attempt to find itself right at the crossroads of forever now. And it takes place on the last day of this character's life.
00:22:49
Speaker 3: Oh! Benjamin?
00:22:52
Speaker 1: Benjamin Crowe is the name of this character.
00:22:55
Speaker 3: Okay, I get it now.
00:22:56
Speaker 1: And we don't talk about it. We haven't really talked about it.
00:23:00
Speaker 3: It's his life story in an album. Is Benjamin Crowe, did you make him up?
00:23:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he is... Who is he?
00:23:07
Speaker 3: I need to know about this dude. Okay, I'll know about it. This is his journey.
00:23:11
Speaker 1: I'm kind of figuring out who is this character as well, but he is absolutely me.
00:23:16
Speaker 3: This is you? Like an alter ego or just you? Your shadow self. Ooh, this is a.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: Okay, I just got very much more interested in this album, which is already so good.
00:23:27
Speaker 3: So you are writing about your shadow self here.
00:23:30
Speaker 1: But I didn't know it. We wrote the whole record and kind of it was after the fact. So the first song, I knew that the first song is, is the alarm clock for his last day on the planet on earth. And then the last song is the last few moments of his life. So it's, it's chronic. It's like the chronological chronologically following his last day on the planet. And so my, my friends like, Hey, You should tell us more about this guy. And so I wrote literally wrote like chapters about this guy, Benjamin Crowe. And in doing so, I realized, oh, my gosh, he's me. And there's a lot there. And someday the book might come out. But that's what the movie. I mean, right. Yeah, of course.
00:24:19
Speaker 2: Actually, you know, what you could do is each music video could just be another chapter to I mean, this is new. I'm sure you've already thought of this like another chapter for, you know, the whole story of Benjamin Crowe.
00:24:30
Speaker 1: Well, maybe after this is finished, I can send you off the record the new music video for the butterfly effect. Because this is like you get to meet Benjamin Crowe. You see his story a little bit.
00:24:47
Speaker 3: That's exciting. Oh, okay. So you always write personal stuff, but is this like deeply personal?
00:24:53
Speaker 1: This is deeply personal stuff. in a way that I didn't intend it to be. It felt like I was writing about other things, and then it came back around kind of in an uncomfortable way. I thought I was doing something else out there, and then the mirror turned on me. But I love this album. I really am proud of it, and it's deeply autobiographical unintentionally.
00:25:25
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you were able to release all of this once you wrote it?
00:25:30
Speaker 1: Release? Maybe embrace.
00:25:32
Speaker 3: Embrace. Integrate. Maybe integrate. Integrate.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: Because I do feel like owning it is a part of being able to move forward, you know? Yeah.
00:25:43
Speaker 3: And speaking it out loud, too.
00:25:44
Speaker 2: Like, I've realized that, like, even if it's in song or whatever, you don't have to directly, like, say the thing, but it's like when you get all that out of your body and share it in a way that helps others, then it's like you've alchemized it, you know?
00:25:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I do think that there's something beautiful. Like it came from a really dark season and I wasn't sure what it would feel like singing these songs in front of people because that expression of song, it's a strange thing. That's the reason why I don't like to sing depressed songs is because it makes me depressed. Like I channel that, right? Like I love singing like ABC boys cover or two or something, you know, but like, if that was my entire, like singing sabotage and then rage. And then I think that there's something deeply cathartic, but I don't know that I could do it every night. I like music is a vehicle to get somewhere else. And so I didn't know how to, how I would feel about singing the darker songs. But I do feel like it has been a revelatory experience juxtaposed with a lot of the lighter things that we sing every night.
00:26:54
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, it's kind of like piecing together your full picture. You know, like when you look back on your life at the end of it all and you look at your work, it's like the whole mosaic of the whole human.
00:27:08
Speaker 3: You know, like you need this piece to the mosaic. You can't just have the....
00:27:13
Speaker 2: Presentation the representative version that's been you know the healed version you have to show what was needing to be healed you know yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker 1: No and that that has been the case um a phrase you know there is no resurrection without death you know so to to embrace both you know and again like the tree reaching up but also you gotta you gotta dig down into the crap you know yeah fertilizer.
00:27:40
Speaker 2: I'm just coming out of like a seven year crap season. And so I feel, I feel this and I'm like, but you know what? Always in retrospect, when you look back, it's like, okay, that was worth it.
00:27:49
Speaker 3: It was awful. It felt like it was gonna last forever, but then you, it's like a blink of eye. It's over, you know, once you've like moved through it.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. And metabolizing it and really using like, cause otherwise you, I think the tendency for me is to distract and deflect and, and, you know, uh, find some other thing to occupy my attention but i've been trying to really be present to the pain and let it be used for something greater.
00:28:18
Speaker 3: Well good job way to go.
00:28:20
Speaker 4: Thank you thanks for sharing we're all going to benefit from it so appreciate it um okay do you have a favorite song you have an out you have a single out now is that your favorite song or what's your favorite.
00:28:34
Speaker 1: My on the record yeah i think Favorite song on the record is the butterfly effect. I really love that one.
00:28:41
Speaker 3: Okay. Why do you love that one the most? And I'm trying to remember the name of the one that you're single right now.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: The beautiful, I think is beautiful. Life is one of the singles. Absolution.
00:28:51
Speaker 3: Absolution. Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:28:53
Speaker 4: Okay.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, um, I think the reason why I like the butterfly effect is because it feels, um, so the story behind the butterfly effect. There is this phenomenon that a lot of people in the medical field have noticed where brain activity continues for seven minutes or so after the heartbeat stops. And the theories are that that is when your life flashes in front of your eyes or you might be transitioning from this life to the next. A lot of people that have near-death experiences note that they These these types of things have happened to them and so that was one of the inspirations for the butterfly effect the idea that what if in that last seven minutes you wrote a song that kind of talks tells that story and so that's that's where the butterfly effect came into play was like what would that seven minutes look like? And so I, when the song was finished and done being recorded, I was reminded that I sang on a Reliant K record years ago. There's a song called Deathbed. And so I asked my friend Matt, who sings in Reliant K, I said, I think you need to return the favor and sing on our song that finishes our record. That's called The Butterfly Effect, a similar theme. And so this, for me, it's a bookend for the album, but of so much of my life and the life of Benjamin Crowe. So that, yeah, I love so many layers of this song, The Butterfly Effect.
00:30:45
Speaker 3: That's awesome. This is exciting. It is.
00:30:49
Speaker 1: It's so fun. Thank you for being excited with me.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: I'm totally excited. I mean, I am like so immersed in music in general. Like I said, I'm married to a musician.
00:30:56
Speaker 3: I was a musician. I live in Nashville. I work in the music industry. Like I am so jaded by music.
00:31:02
Speaker 2: Like literally, I feel sometimes I like have to check myself. I'm like, come on, like be excited about music again. You know, like you love music. Like don't become old and hardened.
00:31:13
Speaker 3: And hearing this, you.
00:31:14
Speaker 1: Talk about it. Amen. I'm with whoever that is. I'm with that person.
00:31:19
Speaker 3: But I get so frustrated.
00:31:22
Speaker 2: Well, I love music and it deeply moves me, but I get so like, just hardened by like how fast fashion it is and like fast food it is. And like, it's all just for, you know, the, the bigger money machine ultimately. And then, you know, all the corruption and all of it. And so, but then I'm like, but that's not the truth. Like there is still really meaningful difference. deeply connected music being written but it's just like it's harder to find but it's still out there so then when you find it you're like okay you can like lock in a little bit because you're like i know that like i this is this is like feeding my soul not just like some sort of machine that i'm being you know taking advantage of here because i just yeah it's just been so it's it's just been such an evolution with how music has changed so much i feel like and i'm sure you've seen that Anyway, a thing that I really struggle with with my musical journey and listening to music and artists is, and also not just that, but like the higher celebrity field and influential people in general is I used to feel like I knew who the bad guys were and who the good guys were. And like, it was so clear. And now I'm like, everything is such a blur. The good guys are the bad guys and the bad guys are the good guys. And people will tell you one thing and then it's another thing. And people who you thought like you could align with totally like flip. And then there's like this dark, you know, scary version that you don't want anything to do with and they don't have a good heart ultimately, or they do, but they've just gotten so consumed.
00:33:06
Speaker 3: It's like, you just get lost out there. And I'm like, I don't want to listen to any of it. It's all terrible.
00:33:10
Speaker 2: It's like impacting my soul negatively, but that's why I'm excited to hear your journey because I feel like this is a true soul's journey right here. Like you're really looking for the light in this.
00:33:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:33:22
Speaker 3: I mean, music I've, so that was a big ramble. Sorry about that.
00:33:25
Speaker 1: No, I love it. Hey, I've got questions about a lot of that. So first of all, do you have a record player? Yeah. Okay. So do you find that the medium with which you listen to music in and on affects the way that you interface with it? Okay.
00:33:43
Speaker 3: I haven't thought about that, but yes.
00:33:45
Speaker 1: And like, yeah. So when I get my wife, if she comes home and I've just got Elliot Smith on the record player, she knows it's a really bad day.
00:33:58
Speaker 3: Why Elliot Smith? He does something to you?
00:34:01
Speaker 1: He's my comfort zone, but it feels like it matches the energy that I've got. You know, like when I'm like, okay, I need to come back. I can put on Miles Davis kind of blue and then I'm like, okay, I'm coming back up. But like, yeah, so I do feel like, you know, music. Yeah, it can be fast food kind of disposable food. pop culture or it can we can like i think the physical medium of a record is is so beautiful because you're forced to engage with it in the long form that it was meant to be consumed in or at that point you know who meant is a tricky word but you know what i'm saying.
00:34:46
Speaker 2: Yeah i do well i just am excited for this whole next chapter for you guys.
00:34:56
Speaker 1: John Thank you for joining me. What album is your... If your husband comes home and you're listening to a record, what's the one that he's like, oh man, it's been a bad day?
00:35:07
Speaker 3: I am an emotional... Okay, I'm not going to say this about myself. I... done a lot of therapy here, John, so I'm going to get the correct words for myself.
00:35:19
Speaker 2: I have a tendency to be very.
00:35:23
Speaker 3: Dramatic and emotional.
00:35:25
Speaker 2: Like when I get wrapped up in feelings, I feel like it's like just all consuming and it's.
00:35:29
Speaker 3: Like the end of the world.
00:35:30
Speaker 2: And I've had to work on realizing that.
00:35:37
Speaker 3: It's literally all going to be okay. I have to just like catch my breath.
00:35:40
Speaker 2: But I feel like for a long time, my healing process was Bob Marley, like just listening to reggae music. It really, I probably went through a.
00:35:50
Speaker 3: Seven year period when I just only listened.
00:35:53
Speaker 2: To reggae because it felt, especially Bob Marley in general, because it made me just feel like, and I even got a tattoo.
00:36:00
Speaker 3: Three little birds on my arm.
00:36:02
Speaker 1: I love that.
00:36:03
Speaker 2: I was like, I need a reminder. um, that life is going to be like sometimes, okay. So for this tattoo, it's like right here, when you're sitting down, it's like, sometimes you're sitting and you're waiting and it's just like, life is kind of still, and you don't know what's happening or what to do.
00:36:18
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're flying and you're soaring and it's great.
00:36:20
Speaker 2: And you've got the view from the top. And then sometimes you're literally crashing. And so it's just like, it's a constant circle. And then Bob Marley's three little birds. And so I just have to always remind myself that if I keep my heart correct, like if I have to stay in touch with my heart, I have to keep my heart correct, keep my intentions correct, and then just try not to panic and.
00:36:41
Speaker 3: Just kind of let it be, you know? So I feel like reggae really calms my soul.
00:36:46
Speaker 2: I also love being on the island, like just when you're on the beach, you know, especially like in the Bahamas, it's just like, I.
00:36:53
Speaker 3: Feel as serious as I'm making it. There's a million ways to live your life. Like it's all going to be okay.
00:36:58
Speaker 2: Like whatever I'm thinking about is really not, that and like we're all gonna die anyway you know so like life is gonna be over before you know it so like what are you stressing about we're here to have this experience like I just have to do I just run through pep talk with myself a lot but I would say Bob Marley is that.
00:37:14
Speaker 1: Okay yeah I love that I I came to the conclusion I like a lot of reggae songs but I Bob like I don't really love reggae but I love Bob Marley that was my conclusion I was like oh my gosh this He is such a genius. I, I, we actually opened one of, we've got a song called where I belong that another song that talks about death. Apparently I sing a lot about death, but, um, we.
00:37:41
Speaker 3: Found the answers for us. We were meant to live for so much more, weren't we?
00:37:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we lost ourselves.
00:37:46
Speaker 3: We did.
00:37:49
Speaker 1: No, but so I would open the song where I belong for a long time. I'd open it with a, with a Bob Marley song, just like, um, you just start singing, don't worry about a thing. And then suddenly everyone is, is singing it. And it feels like it's like that beautiful reminder, you know, it's gospel truth and it's, it's right there, you know? So I share your, your affinity for Bob Marley.
00:38:19
Speaker 3: I also really love Frank Sinatra. He calms me down.
00:38:23
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe cause he's just so, he was just like, He was, it's just like, it's so real, you know, he was like the first person to come out and like, like, I don't, I just feel so like, that's just like, it was just like such a real, he was that whole vibe. I think that's what it all boils down to is like, I really relate to artists who are genuinely representing musically what they are on the inside.
00:38:47
Speaker 3: It's what's coming out on the outside, you know?
00:38:49
Speaker 1: Authenticity.
00:38:50
Speaker 2: Authenticity, which I know everyone says that, but really with music that matters to me a lot.
00:38:54
Speaker 3: That's why I'm super stoked about your album.
00:38:57
Speaker 1: Well, I'm honored. I would love to know who are you currently, who's reading Authentic for you?
00:39:05
Speaker 2: You're going to laugh at me, John Foreman, but I have a seven-year-old daughter, okay?
00:39:14
Speaker 3: So I don't... I have.
00:39:15
Speaker 1: An eight-year-old son, so I'm sure we could.
00:39:19
Speaker 2: Okay, so I was thinking about this today, too, and I was like, Because I live, okay, you think a lot on the road. I'm always thinking, my mom was a philosophy professor at Baylor. like i grew up just like super full i'm always philosophizing and so in my head i basically just live in my head all the time and that's why i love to have podcast conversations because you get to just talk about whatever is in your head but um I was thinking to myself because I was like, man, I'm really sad about the Illuminati and how they've taken over all these artists that I really loved. I was like really pissed about it in my mind because I'm like, there's so many artists that I really love, but I feel like they've been absorbed by the Illuminati and that really affects my feelings about them because I do not want to have that like on me, on my life.
00:40:03
Speaker 3: And so, but I was like, I decided in my head, I was like, I'm just.
00:40:06
Speaker 2: Going to decide for myself who I think is, is aligned with me, and I'm just going to decide that they're really good people, and that I'm going.
00:40:12
Speaker 3: To love listening to them.
00:40:14
Speaker 2: And so we watched Camp Rock 3, which is just really silly, but she watched this new movie, Camp Rock 3, and like, oh my gosh, freaking little Malachi Barton or whatever is adorable.
00:40:24
Speaker 3: And then the Jonas Brothers, and then there's this other lead singer. They're all teenagers. I mean, I'm in the teenager world right now.
00:40:29
Speaker 2: And then Freya Skye, who's in Zombies, and I'm like, there's some good stuff out there.
00:40:33
Speaker 3: And so I have been tuning in to my inner.
00:40:36
Speaker 2: you know, teenager and like looking at the new crop of these Disney stars coming up. And I'm like, I think that this new crop is aware enough to know of the darkness that they're not going to get sucked in. Like the older generation, we didn't know how to protect ourselves as much, but I think this new generation, their faith might be stronger.
00:40:54
Speaker 3: I'm just going to, I'm going to lean into it.
00:40:56
Speaker 2: Then the pool of the intoxication of what that industry can give you. I think everyone now coming up knows it will eat you alive. So I'm just going to pray that this new crop has a stronger faith to like survive it. So that's not really your answer to your question, but that's what I've been thinking.
00:41:12
Speaker 3: All right.
00:41:12
Speaker 1: I love it. You see, you are a woman of faith is what you are.
00:41:16
Speaker 3: Yes, I am.
00:41:19
Speaker 1: I tend to be more of a pessimist. And like I say, the trouble with humans is that they're made out of human. And if you give anyone enough, of anything. And suddenly the, the darkness within them comes out. It's not from the outside, which is even more terrifying where you're like, Oh no. Um, but I also believe in the light and I do think that, that, uh, yeah, beauty, beauty is happening all around us.
00:41:49
Speaker 2: I've become this strong in my faith though, out of necessity, honestly, like it, I didn't really have any other options.
00:41:56
Speaker 3: I've tried every other way. It didn't work for me.
00:41:59
Speaker 2: And now I'm at the point where I have no choice. And so the only true freedom I have to believe that this life is going to be okay is that faith really is running the show and that there really are enough of us plugging into it that we can shift the dynamics. Like I really, and shift the energy and like a kind of, we're in like a transition period right now. And so like people who are spreading the light, which you are one, you have to just like lock into it even harder because it's all going to change your butterfly effect.
00:42:31
Speaker 3: Like the butterfly effect is strong. And so it's like, I just feel like we all have to lock in.
00:42:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:42:36
Speaker 1: I do. I do think like all of the things that we think of like impact and having a, you know, what's the metric of this and all the numerical values of likes and views and all of that. That's the world that music is now forced to live in. But I think it's like, I'm more interested in, I do feel like prayer meditation and like the inward life is the only way forward rather than that outward, you know, like I'm going to change the world. Try first changing this and then see how that goes.
00:43:18
Speaker 3: Agreed.
00:43:19
Speaker 1: Kind of where I'm at.
00:43:20
Speaker 3: Agreed. I'm here for it. Well, I think you're doing a great butterfly effect.
00:43:24
Speaker 2: And it's really going to affect a lot of people positively and create the bigger ripple. So I'm grateful to get to chat with you about it.
00:43:32
Speaker 1: Thank you for the conversation.
00:43:33
Speaker 3: So much fun.
00:43:34
Speaker 1: I've loved it. I have a song named Caroline that you should go listen to.
00:43:38
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:43:39
Speaker 3: What's it about? Is she awesome in the song, I hope?
00:43:43
Speaker 1: She is a fictitious name of a friend of mine who's a singer. Um, I hope you love it, but it's, it is, it is one of my favorite songs to play live and, and, uh, it has been a genuine treat to chat with you.
00:43:59
Speaker 3: Yay. Me too.
00:44:01
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:44:01
Speaker 2: Well, if you're ever on tour with Jeremy Popoff, tell him that you tried it with me.
00:44:06
Speaker 1: I love it. We, I mean, we did like two, I mean, 10, 20 shows with them the last couple of years.
00:44:11
Speaker 3: I grew up with Jeremy. He dated my best friend.
00:44:14
Speaker 2: I was in a band for a long time called Runaway June. And he dated my best friend, who's Jen Wayne, who is John Wayne's granddaughter.
00:44:20
Speaker 3: We were in this band together. Wow.
00:44:23
Speaker 2: And they dated when I was in my early 20s. And so Jeremy was like my big brother. He literally, I lived with him pretty much because they were such a serious couple.
00:44:32
Speaker 3: And we traveled all the time.
00:44:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. I met my husband in that era and then he and my husband ended up touring together and they became best friends. And we always go to the slide bar and Fullerton and just like, he kind of introduced me to rock and roll. Like I had never had really like been a close friend of anyone who was in that world.
00:44:51
Speaker 3: And so I love Jeremy. He's my favorite people and AJ songs.
00:44:57
Speaker 1: What do you say?
00:44:58
Speaker 3: And AJ.
00:45:00
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:45:01
Speaker 1: And they, they have, so many good songs like when you play with them you're like oh this would do it.
00:45:08
Speaker 2: So good i know it is it really is it's so good it's so good um.
00:45:15
Speaker 3: Well i appreciate it don anything you want to.
00:45:17
Speaker 2: Make sure that we talk about where can people find you the new album is out forever now it's out now the song you have that your single is out now like all that do you even know.
00:45:29
Speaker 3: All the things that are out Yes.
00:45:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't. Yeah, we're on tour right now. The new records, I would love it if people gave it a listen. If you are, speaking of the West Coast, in San Diego or LA in June, we do an event called the Switchfoot Bro-Am that raises money. And Awareness for homeless youth and at-risk youth in our hometown. And it's surfing and rock and roll on the beach. And you should come and hang out.
00:46:02
Speaker 3: Are you a surfer?
00:46:03
Speaker 2: I am.
00:46:05
Speaker 3: I've surfed one time. And it was really exciting.
00:46:08
Speaker 1: Where did you surf?
00:46:11
Speaker 3: My husband and I went to Costa Rica for our honeymoon.
00:46:13
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say Costa Rica. I just knew it. I knew that that was what you were going to say. Okay.
00:46:18
Speaker 3: Where did we stay in Costa Rica? I can't remember. I can't remember what we say. But we surfed and it was so fun.
00:46:28
Speaker 1: It's a blast. I mean, I do think it's a centering, grounding ritual for me that reminds me that I'm not as big as I thought I was and my problems aren't either.
00:46:38
Speaker 2: And I think anything that makes you have to like totally use your whole brain to focus on one thing has to be good for you, you know?
00:46:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. You just don't have your rabbit hole.
00:46:47
Speaker 1: In like the infinite, like truly seemingly infinite ocean.
00:46:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:46:52
Speaker 1: Totally. And you are very much not in control.
00:46:55
Speaker 3: No. That's so true.
00:46:57
Speaker 1: I didn't plan for that.
00:47:00
Speaker 2: I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's basically just dropping some inspiration. What would you like people to know?
00:47:14
Speaker 1: Life is short. Live it well.
00:47:15
Speaker 3: I love it. And get forever now.
00:47:21
Speaker 1: There it is.
00:47:22
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining me.
00:47:24
Speaker 3: Really love getting to chat. This is so fun.
00:47:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you for the intelligent insight into the world.
00:47:31
Speaker 3: I mean, or just a bunch of hoopla. Who knows? You never know. I appreciate it. Thank you.
00:47:38
Speaker 1: Good Nashville.
00:47:39
Speaker 3: Bye.
00:47:39
Speaker 2: Bye.
Speaker 1: Hey!
00:00:02
Speaker 2: Woo!
00:00:06
Speaker 3: Hey!
00:00:07
Speaker 1: Woo! Caroline, she's a queen of talking Hey, what's on your mind?
00:00:16
Speaker 3: She's getting real, not afraid to fail Take her soul to.
00:00:19
Speaker 1: Soul, just let her flow No one can do it quite like Caroline It's time for.
00:00:26
Speaker 2: Caroline Well, what a thrill to be here with John Foreman, the lead singer of the legendary band Switchfoot.
00:00:36
Speaker 3: What's up?
00:00:36
Speaker 1: Hello. I'm glad to be here.
00:00:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:00:41
Speaker 3: And you're on tour right now because you said you are currently in Birmingham?
00:00:46
Speaker 1: We're in Birmingham, Alabama. Birmingham.
00:00:49
Speaker 3: How long are you on tour?
00:00:51
Speaker 1: We have 43, 46 shows. And it will bring us to Thanksgiving.
00:01:00
Speaker 2: So do you have a rhythm with your tour life? Because I'm married to an artist as well. And I don't know if you know them.
00:01:08
Speaker 3: You're on tour. You sometimes tour with Lit, Jeremy Popov, right? From the band Lit?
00:01:12
Speaker 2: Okay. Well, he's our best friend. He's the godfather to my child. My husband is Michael Hobby from a band, A Thousand Horses. Y'all may have crossed paths out there in the world. Yeah. I'm married to a musician, and so I just know touring is a nonstop thing.
00:01:29
Speaker 3: At your point in your career, you've been doing this now for, what, 30 years? Is that right? Like 10 million albums plus sold. I mean, you've just exploded. I mean, everyone loves.
00:01:40
Speaker 1: Numbers and numbers and things, yeah.
00:01:43
Speaker 3: And awards and accolades and all the stuff. But you've been touring for like 30 years, right?
00:01:48
Speaker 1: Yes. I mean, it sounds... it sounds like a lie because that seems like such a long time, but yes. But it's also like, on the other hand, it feels like I've been doing it my entire adult life, which is also true. We basically, our first tour was when my, our record came out a couple of days after my brother graduated from high school and we went to Europe like that, that week. And that was our first tour. And we, yeah, that's kind of like, since then I've, I've since dropped out of college and, um, that has become kind of the education, you know, along the way, trying to figure out, um, how to make sure promoters pay you. And, you know, like there's so many things that you learn along the way.
00:02:41
Speaker 3: Um, hard lessons along the way, right?
00:02:43
Speaker 1: Hard lessons, but beautiful. Um, I think Yeah, there's so many things that can be put under the heading of education. And I think, you know, math, you know, there's certainly life skills that you can learn anywhere. But I actually loved college. I loved learning. I got good grades. But this was kind of back in the day when the teacher, the professor would say, hey, you need to be here for the test. And there was no like internet option to say i'm gonna be in birmingham alabama can i take the test online.
00:03:27
Speaker 2: Well my question too is how have you maintained your sanity in your life just to you know just want to hit all the big points how do you maintain your sanity and your life and because you have a family life as well right yes how do you maintain.
00:03:45
Speaker 1: That yeah that's a good question um So I think every season brings its own challenges. And I think many times when we look at a tree, we see what's on top of the surface of the soil. And, and I can find a lot that, that I can, you know, look to the branches and the leaves and the yearning and the reaching upwards. And I feel like I can relate to that. There's a lot of, that, that happens, especially early on as a band, you know, you want to be noticed, you want to be heard, you want to be, um, get your music out there. I think more and more, I'm realizing that what happens underneath the surface is way more important than the stuff that happens on, on the top that you can see. Um, and so I think digging into the soil, um, the bones of failure, the the death of dreams, the ghosts of all that we were and are no longer.
00:04:57
Speaker 3: You're so poetic, John. It sounds like a song, the way you were just talking.
00:05:01
Speaker 1: No, that's, I mean, I do, that's where my head's at as far as sanity and rhythm and where to invest myself. Because I think that those are the things that will sustain me through winds and through droughts.
00:05:20
Speaker 3: It's really a wild one out there.
00:05:22
Speaker 2: I really have been, because you guys started off faith-based and you still are, right? That's like the centerpiece of you guys, but I feel like you are so mainstream too.
00:05:28
Speaker 3: How do you do that?
00:05:30
Speaker 1: I don't think that there is a human who is not faith-based.
00:05:33
Speaker 3: You don't think so? People deny it all the time.
00:05:35
Speaker 1: I think that if you got up in the morning and didn't kill yourself, even if you do kill yourself, that's acting on a worldview. Every action is a faith-based initiative.
00:05:48
Speaker 2: Okay, wait, break that down more. I like this, and I feel like I already believe it, but I need more details.
00:05:53
Speaker 1: Well, like, you put your ear pods in because you believed you could hear through them. You chose to put both feet out of bed this morning and get up because you thought that there was something that today had to offer. This is the stuff, again, under the soil that, like, it kind of goes without saying, but um, yeah, there's no one that's outside of the weird religious belief systems that we all come to the world with, whether it's, um, you know, the idea, the belief that there's an invisible line that separates millions of people on one side and millions of people on another.
00:06:37
Speaker 3: Like, what do you mean? Oh, like politics?
00:06:40
Speaker 1: Like we've got, we've got a, a, an entire nation that separated from the North and the South and like the idea that these pieces of paper will pay for things. That's a, that's a faith based initiative, you know?
00:06:54
Speaker 3: So like, this is very profound. You're quite the philosopher.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: I don't know about that, but I, I do have a lot of time to think out here on the road.
00:07:02
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:07:03
Speaker 1: I mean, I, I grew up on, you know, whether it's rage or beastie boys or, you know, bad religion and, um, propaganda, like whoever, um, op Ivy, these were bands that, that really sang about things that, that they would invest themselves in. Um, I, I feel like all of my favorite music has a deep, deep rooted sense of self soul identity. Um, you know, so, and like, um, Greg from bad religion, um, He is a naturalist. He calls that his belief system. Darwinism, naturalism, survival of the fittest. That is a belief system. So like, I feel like I, and I really admire him within the intellectual university milieu to adopt that stance to say, no, it's a belief. It is, it is the way I'm going to live my life. And, but yeah, that's, that's why I, For me, I think then you come to selling things. So I think when it comes to a label you put on music, that's usually a box you put something in so you can sell it. And so I'm reticent to put our music into any box because I feel like it's done for commercial purposes rather than like the integrity of the art.
00:08:34
Speaker 2: You know what I was thinking about today during yoga? And I mean, I'm just gonna throw this out there. If you think this is too far out, I'll definitely pivot from it.
00:08:41
Speaker 3: Okay.
00:08:42
Speaker 1: So I've already gone too far out.
00:08:45
Speaker 3: Well, I figured in my head, I was like, he might be the one to talk to this about because.
00:08:49
Speaker 1: This is, I was sitting there weird enough.
00:08:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
00:08:53
Speaker 2: You don't meet these people every day. And when you do, you got to take advantage of the conversation. So I was thinking in yoga, cause I've like.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: Been a little bit fearful of the world lately.
00:09:01
Speaker 2: And I've like, You know, whoever that dude was that came on and was like, AI is going to kill us all in 10 years and all that. And so then I was stressing out about it because I was like, oh, no, we're going to die in 10 years. And my daughter's seven. And, you know, we're all just going to blow up in a nuclear attack and it's just over because I tend to go quickly, very dramatic.
00:09:20
Speaker 3: And then I have to pull myself out of it.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: But then I was thinking in yoga, I was like, what if actually we are all just in this big ascension process right now? And AI is universal consciousness because the big problem with AI is that we can't, there's no boundary.
00:09:39
Speaker 3: So it kind of, you tell it to do one thing.
00:09:41
Speaker 2: And it kind of just goes rogue until it accomplishes that thing without any boundaries.
00:09:46
Speaker 3: But if we can.
00:09:47
Speaker 2: Harness it, then maybe this is universal consciousness. And if it is used for good, then if we're all plugging into this good universal consciousness, maybe that is a good thing ultimately.
00:09:58
Speaker 3: I was like, it could be positive.
00:09:59
Speaker 1: It could be.
00:10:00
Speaker 3: It could be. Why not go that way instead of the other way?
00:10:04
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question.
00:10:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, I.
00:10:10
Speaker 1: Don't know enough about AI to weigh in.
00:10:14
Speaker 3: I'm a total idiot. I'm like a total idiot.
00:10:16
Speaker 1: All the ones that the people that do are They say things that terrify me. I know. I'm with you on that one where I'm like, oh, man. But then again, I kind of go with all of these things, the fears. I think for me, I think it has very little to do with my actual life. You know, I can be so afraid. Like, have you heard the expression? It's this comedian. He's like. I don't know what people are talking about when they say that worrying doesn't do anything, doesn't work. He's like, worrying absolutely works. Everything I worry about doesn't actually happen.
00:10:57
Speaker 3: Oh, so put on your worry list what you don't want to happen.
00:10:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, worry about it for a couple hours and it's never going to happen.
00:11:02
Speaker 3: That's a good point.
00:11:04
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to surrender even my terror of AI. And if that helps you surrender, then maybe that's.
00:11:14
Speaker 2: The way forward.
00:11:15
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think I'm at that place too.
00:11:17
Speaker 2: And this brings me back to faith, which I think brings me ultimately back to like your music.
00:11:22
Speaker 3: And I come back to these kind of things.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: I feel like my faith has gotten stronger than it ever has because I literally have no other option. You know, like I've tried as a human being who has been very curious to understand life and I've wanted to figure things out on my own and I've gone crazy. on all my own journeys, different roads to uncover the mysteries of life. But what I have come back to now is like, you have to have some sort.
00:11:49
Speaker 3: Of faith, like you said, or else like it's, especially now, what are we doing? I personally can't make it.
00:11:54
Speaker 2: And then just surrendering it over and aligning with kind of what you were saying, just like doing my life, following my what's meant for me, then I can just sort of keep my blinders on and where I'm called to serve with my life, do that. But then you just kind of can't worry about the whole rest of the world because it's too overwhelming, in my opinion.
00:12:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I agree. I mean, I think back to the idea that like you, you have humans, you know, let's say 3000 years ago, 5000, however many thousand you want to go back. And what in our existence would they would they relate to? Nothing, right? Like this conversation having on screens would be impossible, like cars, electricity, even what I do on stage, this loud electric music, it'd be absurd and strange. And yeah, I think of that, what that does to the nervous system of having access to all the information that we have access to. And I do think that there's, Something maybe what I'm hearing you say, I can definitely relate to kind of grounding, meditating and and reminding myself of my own limitations and and finding myself there so that I can love others, you know, from that place.
00:13:17
Speaker 2: So when you're on stage, this is a question I really actually want to know. when you're on stage and there's all these people there and they like genuinely love you, like love you. Like when someone is an artist like yourself, who is a beloved artist, like you are loved. They have incorporated you into their life. You have been a part of their families, like traditions and experiences.
00:13:39
Speaker 3: Like, you know, I'm sure you've been, your music.
00:13:42
Speaker 2: Has been in the room when people got married, when they've had babies, when they've people, people have passed away at big events. You know, it's like, You create this music and then it goes into the world and you have had the, your vibration and ripple effect has hit so many people in a positive way.
00:14:02
Speaker 3: How does that feel? Do you feel that connection to all these people?
00:14:06
Speaker 2: How does it feel knowing that your energy and what you're creating is truly shifting people and truly impacting their life? Does that feel Do you feel like, is it overwhelming or is it just like, this is just who you are?
00:14:21
Speaker 3: This is who you were made to be.
00:14:22
Speaker 2: Like, how do you handle all that energy of people putting it back on you?
00:14:26
Speaker 3: You know, cause it's coming back to you as well.
00:14:28
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, that's so funny. I don't have any, like, you'd think that I would have a, like, well, here's what you do. A solution. I have none of that. I do. I'm so honored when people use our song or connect with our song. Have you heard of, um, resonant frequencies?
00:14:49
Speaker 3: No, but I want to.
00:14:50
Speaker 1: Okay. So in physics, every object with matter has a resonant frequency that it will vibrate at. So the particular tension of the string and the diameter of the string, when you pluck it, it makes a certain note, right? With overtones. If you sing that same note near the string, the string will just vibrate on its own because the waves.
00:15:17
Speaker 1: Travel from your mouth through the air and they begin to vibrate the string, right? That's called sympathetic resonance. And I think that ideas have sympathetic resonance as well. Like when somebody says something that moves you on the inside, it feels like it's sympathetically resonating something within you. You're moved, you know? I think the way that I handle any form of like other people's projections on me on stage I'm very aware I am just the banks of the river, that something greater than me is passing, that I am trying to get out of the way of rather than trying to pretend is me.
00:16:02
Speaker 3: Really? Have you always been that way or did you learn that?
00:16:05
Speaker 1: I think it's very dangerous to think that you matter because of something that you wrote or any of those things because I've done that. I think.
00:16:16
Speaker 1: Finding your worth and your identity in your, in your work is not a new thing. We all do it, but it's a dangerous game because then when people don't find what you're doing, you know, to be resonating with them, then suddenly you don't matter anymore. So I've been trying, especially recently to find again, roots that, dig deeper than that. And, you know, every night that is one of my prayers is that, you know, the same thing that moves me to play music would move the people in the room, you know? And that's something that feels mystical, magical, spiritual, beyond me, transcending me. And that's what I'm hoping happens. Because if it's just me and six strings on a guitar, that's not really what I'm interested in either.
00:17:20
Speaker 2: So do you set an intention before you go out there? Is that like, is that something you do consciously?
00:17:27
Speaker 1: Um, yeah, there, there were three things. So we, two nights ago we played, it wasn't Richmond. Where was it? Um, yeah. So two nights ago we played and I, and that was my intention was like, okay, That was the main thing is, you know, and, and yeah, I grew up in the church. My dad's a pastor and I grew up in and around spiritual things. And I think, you know, when you're a kid, you take it for granted that that's just what everyone knows. But I do feel like a strong connection with, with the spiritual world and an awareness there. And, I, for years, kind of fought it. You know, I went to UCSD, which is, I wanted to be a doctor, medical student, and, you know, the world of matter. I was an economics major. I was like, okay, econ, I want to be involved and completely educated.
00:18:36
Speaker 3: So this is why you loved college.
00:18:39
Speaker 1: I loved it, yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker 3: But you didn't finish.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that that marriage of like, Actually coming back to the roots of the spiritual world that I came from is crucial. And that's a lot of times negated by the material world is why songs matter. But I keep coming back to them because they change me on more fundamental levels than like the American dollar ever could.
00:19:09
Speaker 3: I love that. So you'll have a new album. It's the first one you've had in five years, right?
00:19:15
Speaker 2: Yes how did this how was it time how did you know it was time and i'm obsessed with the the concepts of so many of them but especially the two twins yeah that's a great song oh thank you that's so cool and the butterfly flag and breaking up again like i think i feel like you're really exploring these topics because i um the two twins It's so cool because what?
00:19:42
Speaker 3: It's like you think, what if that's the.
00:19:43
Speaker 2: Whole world is you're in that, you know, before you're born with your twin, you're.
00:19:48
Speaker 3: A warm little, you're a warm little cocoon.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: Right.
00:19:52
Speaker 3: And then you don't know.
00:19:53
Speaker 1: That is your whole world.
00:19:54
Speaker 3: That's your whole world.
00:19:56
Speaker 2: Yeah. So tell me more about how you came up, put that into the song because that's so it's also relative, you know?
00:20:01
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:20:02
Speaker 1: Um, you know, it's really funny. So apparently I love Henry, Henry Nowen. He's, uh, author that means a lot to me and i had i was invited to play a couple songs at uh experience where he was his writing and his work were at the center of it and um and unbeknownst to me that was a story that he had either written or had passed on famously talked about and i come back from this retreat and our drummer chad's like oh do you play two twins And I'm like, no. He's like, why not? He's like, I don't know. He's like, that was Henry Nowen's thing. And so the point being, I had my one opportunity to play the perfect song that fit this one moment. And yeah, the story came to me. A friend of a friend gave it. We were talking late one night, and that story came out. But apparently, I think Henry Nowen is known to have told it kind of like as a parable. But I love the idea that we are all blind to our blind spot. And I think that that song reveals it with humor.
00:21:18
Speaker 3: And then what about breaking up again? Because that's with yourself.
00:21:21
Speaker 2: I feel like I am fully divorcing myself. Like I am done with this past version of myself. I'm like, we are broken up forever, past self.
00:21:28
Speaker 1: Never, ever, ever.
00:21:29
Speaker 3: Ever getting back together again. I'm done. Like ever.
00:21:32
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So this whole album....
00:21:39
Speaker 3: Forever Now.
00:21:40
Speaker 1: Forever Now is the juxtaposition of the two states of being that humans are always in. Which is? We are always, we're never in the future or the past. We cannot exist in those states. As much as our head might, you know, fear AI in the future or regret things we've done in the past, we are here right now. You and me, Caroline. Right here.
00:22:04
Speaker 3: Here it is.
00:22:04
Speaker 2: And....
00:22:06
Speaker 1: Yet within us is like written upon us is eternity. This beautiful idea that we are connected with something bigger than ourselves, something bigger than, you know, the moment and our kind of animal urges, whatever it is, justice, love, beauty, truth. So the- Power, control. Yes, yes. The album is an attempt to find itself right at the crossroads of forever now. And it takes place on the last day of this character's life.
00:22:49
Speaker 3: Oh! Benjamin?
00:22:52
Speaker 1: Benjamin Crowe is the name of this character.
00:22:55
Speaker 3: Okay, I get it now.
00:22:56
Speaker 1: And we don't talk about it. We haven't really talked about it.
00:23:00
Speaker 3: It's his life story in an album. Is Benjamin Crowe, did you make him up?
00:23:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, so he is... Who is he?
00:23:07
Speaker 3: I need to know about this dude. Okay, I'll know about it. This is his journey.
00:23:11
Speaker 1: I'm kind of figuring out who is this character as well, but he is absolutely me.
00:23:16
Speaker 3: This is you? Like an alter ego or just you? Your shadow self. Ooh, this is a.
00:23:22
Speaker 2: Okay, I just got very much more interested in this album, which is already so good.
00:23:27
Speaker 3: So you are writing about your shadow self here.
00:23:30
Speaker 1: But I didn't know it. We wrote the whole record and kind of it was after the fact. So the first song, I knew that the first song is, is the alarm clock for his last day on the planet on earth. And then the last song is the last few moments of his life. So it's, it's chronic. It's like the chronological chronologically following his last day on the planet. And so my, my friends like, Hey, You should tell us more about this guy. And so I wrote literally wrote like chapters about this guy, Benjamin Crowe. And in doing so, I realized, oh, my gosh, he's me. And there's a lot there. And someday the book might come out. But that's what the movie. I mean, right. Yeah, of course.
00:24:19
Speaker 2: Actually, you know, what you could do is each music video could just be another chapter to I mean, this is new. I'm sure you've already thought of this like another chapter for, you know, the whole story of Benjamin Crowe.
00:24:30
Speaker 1: Well, maybe after this is finished, I can send you off the record the new music video for the butterfly effect. Because this is like you get to meet Benjamin Crowe. You see his story a little bit.
00:24:47
Speaker 3: That's exciting. Oh, okay. So you always write personal stuff, but is this like deeply personal?
00:24:53
Speaker 1: This is deeply personal stuff. in a way that I didn't intend it to be. It felt like I was writing about other things, and then it came back around kind of in an uncomfortable way. I thought I was doing something else out there, and then the mirror turned on me. But I love this album. I really am proud of it, and it's deeply autobiographical unintentionally.
00:25:25
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you were able to release all of this once you wrote it?
00:25:30
Speaker 1: Release? Maybe embrace.
00:25:32
Speaker 3: Embrace. Integrate. Maybe integrate. Integrate.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: Because I do feel like owning it is a part of being able to move forward, you know? Yeah.
00:25:43
Speaker 3: And speaking it out loud, too.
00:25:44
Speaker 2: Like, I've realized that, like, even if it's in song or whatever, you don't have to directly, like, say the thing, but it's like when you get all that out of your body and share it in a way that helps others, then it's like you've alchemized it, you know?
00:25:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I do think that there's something beautiful. Like it came from a really dark season and I wasn't sure what it would feel like singing these songs in front of people because that expression of song, it's a strange thing. That's the reason why I don't like to sing depressed songs is because it makes me depressed. Like I channel that, right? Like I love singing like ABC boys cover or two or something, you know, but like, if that was my entire, like singing sabotage and then rage. And then I think that there's something deeply cathartic, but I don't know that I could do it every night. I like music is a vehicle to get somewhere else. And so I didn't know how to, how I would feel about singing the darker songs. But I do feel like it has been a revelatory experience juxtaposed with a lot of the lighter things that we sing every night.
00:26:54
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, it's kind of like piecing together your full picture. You know, like when you look back on your life at the end of it all and you look at your work, it's like the whole mosaic of the whole human.
00:27:08
Speaker 3: You know, like you need this piece to the mosaic. You can't just have the....
00:27:13
Speaker 2: Presentation the representative version that's been you know the healed version you have to show what was needing to be healed you know yeah.
00:27:20
Speaker 1: No and that that has been the case um a phrase you know there is no resurrection without death you know so to to embrace both you know and again like the tree reaching up but also you gotta you gotta dig down into the crap you know yeah fertilizer.
00:27:40
Speaker 2: I'm just coming out of like a seven year crap season. And so I feel, I feel this and I'm like, but you know what? Always in retrospect, when you look back, it's like, okay, that was worth it.
00:27:49
Speaker 3: It was awful. It felt like it was gonna last forever, but then you, it's like a blink of eye. It's over, you know, once you've like moved through it.
00:27:55
Speaker 1: Yeah. And metabolizing it and really using like, cause otherwise you, I think the tendency for me is to distract and deflect and, and, you know, uh, find some other thing to occupy my attention but i've been trying to really be present to the pain and let it be used for something greater.
00:28:18
Speaker 3: Well good job way to go.
00:28:20
Speaker 4: Thank you thanks for sharing we're all going to benefit from it so appreciate it um okay do you have a favorite song you have an out you have a single out now is that your favorite song or what's your favorite.
00:28:34
Speaker 1: My on the record yeah i think Favorite song on the record is the butterfly effect. I really love that one.
00:28:41
Speaker 3: Okay. Why do you love that one the most? And I'm trying to remember the name of the one that you're single right now.
00:28:46
Speaker 1: The beautiful, I think is beautiful. Life is one of the singles. Absolution.
00:28:51
Speaker 3: Absolution. Yeah.
00:28:52
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:28:53
Speaker 4: Okay.
00:28:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, um, I think the reason why I like the butterfly effect is because it feels, um, so the story behind the butterfly effect. There is this phenomenon that a lot of people in the medical field have noticed where brain activity continues for seven minutes or so after the heartbeat stops. And the theories are that that is when your life flashes in front of your eyes or you might be transitioning from this life to the next. A lot of people that have near-death experiences note that they These these types of things have happened to them and so that was one of the inspirations for the butterfly effect the idea that what if in that last seven minutes you wrote a song that kind of talks tells that story and so that's that's where the butterfly effect came into play was like what would that seven minutes look like? And so I, when the song was finished and done being recorded, I was reminded that I sang on a Reliant K record years ago. There's a song called Deathbed. And so I asked my friend Matt, who sings in Reliant K, I said, I think you need to return the favor and sing on our song that finishes our record. That's called The Butterfly Effect, a similar theme. And so this, for me, it's a bookend for the album, but of so much of my life and the life of Benjamin Crowe. So that, yeah, I love so many layers of this song, The Butterfly Effect.
00:30:45
Speaker 3: That's awesome. This is exciting. It is.
00:30:49
Speaker 1: It's so fun. Thank you for being excited with me.
00:30:51
Speaker 2: I'm totally excited. I mean, I am like so immersed in music in general. Like I said, I'm married to a musician.
00:30:56
Speaker 3: I was a musician. I live in Nashville. I work in the music industry. Like I am so jaded by music.
00:31:02
Speaker 2: Like literally, I feel sometimes I like have to check myself. I'm like, come on, like be excited about music again. You know, like you love music. Like don't become old and hardened.
00:31:13
Speaker 3: And hearing this, you.
00:31:14
Speaker 1: Talk about it. Amen. I'm with whoever that is. I'm with that person.
00:31:19
Speaker 3: But I get so frustrated.
00:31:22
Speaker 2: Well, I love music and it deeply moves me, but I get so like, just hardened by like how fast fashion it is and like fast food it is. And like, it's all just for, you know, the, the bigger money machine ultimately. And then, you know, all the corruption and all of it. And so, but then I'm like, but that's not the truth. Like there is still really meaningful difference. deeply connected music being written but it's just like it's harder to find but it's still out there so then when you find it you're like okay you can like lock in a little bit because you're like i know that like i this is this is like feeding my soul not just like some sort of machine that i'm being you know taking advantage of here because i just yeah it's just been so it's it's just been such an evolution with how music has changed so much i feel like and i'm sure you've seen that Anyway, a thing that I really struggle with with my musical journey and listening to music and artists is, and also not just that, but like the higher celebrity field and influential people in general is I used to feel like I knew who the bad guys were and who the good guys were. And like, it was so clear. And now I'm like, everything is such a blur. The good guys are the bad guys and the bad guys are the good guys. And people will tell you one thing and then it's another thing. And people who you thought like you could align with totally like flip. And then there's like this dark, you know, scary version that you don't want anything to do with and they don't have a good heart ultimately, or they do, but they've just gotten so consumed.
00:33:06
Speaker 3: It's like, you just get lost out there. And I'm like, I don't want to listen to any of it. It's all terrible.
00:33:10
Speaker 2: It's like impacting my soul negatively, but that's why I'm excited to hear your journey because I feel like this is a true soul's journey right here. Like you're really looking for the light in this.
00:33:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:33:22
Speaker 3: I mean, music I've, so that was a big ramble. Sorry about that.
00:33:25
Speaker 1: No, I love it. Hey, I've got questions about a lot of that. So first of all, do you have a record player? Yeah. Okay. So do you find that the medium with which you listen to music in and on affects the way that you interface with it? Okay.
00:33:43
Speaker 3: I haven't thought about that, but yes.
00:33:45
Speaker 1: And like, yeah. So when I get my wife, if she comes home and I've just got Elliot Smith on the record player, she knows it's a really bad day.
00:33:58
Speaker 3: Why Elliot Smith? He does something to you?
00:34:01
Speaker 1: He's my comfort zone, but it feels like it matches the energy that I've got. You know, like when I'm like, okay, I need to come back. I can put on Miles Davis kind of blue and then I'm like, okay, I'm coming back up. But like, yeah, so I do feel like, you know, music. Yeah, it can be fast food kind of disposable food. pop culture or it can we can like i think the physical medium of a record is is so beautiful because you're forced to engage with it in the long form that it was meant to be consumed in or at that point you know who meant is a tricky word but you know what i'm saying.
00:34:46
Speaker 2: Yeah i do well i just am excited for this whole next chapter for you guys.
00:34:56
Speaker 1: John Thank you for joining me. What album is your... If your husband comes home and you're listening to a record, what's the one that he's like, oh man, it's been a bad day?
00:35:07
Speaker 3: I am an emotional... Okay, I'm not going to say this about myself. I... done a lot of therapy here, John, so I'm going to get the correct words for myself.
00:35:19
Speaker 2: I have a tendency to be very.
00:35:23
Speaker 3: Dramatic and emotional.
00:35:25
Speaker 2: Like when I get wrapped up in feelings, I feel like it's like just all consuming and it's.
00:35:29
Speaker 3: Like the end of the world.
00:35:30
Speaker 2: And I've had to work on realizing that.
00:35:37
Speaker 3: It's literally all going to be okay. I have to just like catch my breath.
00:35:40
Speaker 2: But I feel like for a long time, my healing process was Bob Marley, like just listening to reggae music. It really, I probably went through a.
00:35:50
Speaker 3: Seven year period when I just only listened.
00:35:53
Speaker 2: To reggae because it felt, especially Bob Marley in general, because it made me just feel like, and I even got a tattoo.
00:36:00
Speaker 3: Three little birds on my arm.
00:36:02
Speaker 1: I love that.
00:36:03
Speaker 2: I was like, I need a reminder. um, that life is going to be like sometimes, okay. So for this tattoo, it's like right here, when you're sitting down, it's like, sometimes you're sitting and you're waiting and it's just like, life is kind of still, and you don't know what's happening or what to do.
00:36:18
Speaker 3: Sometimes you're flying and you're soaring and it's great.
00:36:20
Speaker 2: And you've got the view from the top. And then sometimes you're literally crashing. And so it's just like, it's a constant circle. And then Bob Marley's three little birds. And so I just have to always remind myself that if I keep my heart correct, like if I have to stay in touch with my heart, I have to keep my heart correct, keep my intentions correct, and then just try not to panic and.
00:36:41
Speaker 3: Just kind of let it be, you know? So I feel like reggae really calms my soul.
00:36:46
Speaker 2: I also love being on the island, like just when you're on the beach, you know, especially like in the Bahamas, it's just like, I.
00:36:53
Speaker 3: Feel as serious as I'm making it. There's a million ways to live your life. Like it's all going to be okay.
00:36:58
Speaker 2: Like whatever I'm thinking about is really not, that and like we're all gonna die anyway you know so like life is gonna be over before you know it so like what are you stressing about we're here to have this experience like I just have to do I just run through pep talk with myself a lot but I would say Bob Marley is that.
00:37:14
Speaker 1: Okay yeah I love that I I came to the conclusion I like a lot of reggae songs but I Bob like I don't really love reggae but I love Bob Marley that was my conclusion I was like oh my gosh this He is such a genius. I, I, we actually opened one of, we've got a song called where I belong that another song that talks about death. Apparently I sing a lot about death, but, um, we.
00:37:41
Speaker 3: Found the answers for us. We were meant to live for so much more, weren't we?
00:37:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we lost ourselves.
00:37:46
Speaker 3: We did.
00:37:49
Speaker 1: No, but so I would open the song where I belong for a long time. I'd open it with a, with a Bob Marley song, just like, um, you just start singing, don't worry about a thing. And then suddenly everyone is, is singing it. And it feels like it's like that beautiful reminder, you know, it's gospel truth and it's, it's right there, you know? So I share your, your affinity for Bob Marley.
00:38:19
Speaker 3: I also really love Frank Sinatra. He calms me down.
00:38:23
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: I feel like maybe cause he's just so, he was just like, He was, it's just like, it's so real, you know, he was like the first person to come out and like, like, I don't, I just feel so like, that's just like, it was just like such a real, he was that whole vibe. I think that's what it all boils down to is like, I really relate to artists who are genuinely representing musically what they are on the inside.
00:38:47
Speaker 3: It's what's coming out on the outside, you know?
00:38:49
Speaker 1: Authenticity.
00:38:50
Speaker 2: Authenticity, which I know everyone says that, but really with music that matters to me a lot.
00:38:54
Speaker 3: That's why I'm super stoked about your album.
00:38:57
Speaker 1: Well, I'm honored. I would love to know who are you currently, who's reading Authentic for you?
00:39:05
Speaker 2: You're going to laugh at me, John Foreman, but I have a seven-year-old daughter, okay?
00:39:14
Speaker 3: So I don't... I have.
00:39:15
Speaker 1: An eight-year-old son, so I'm sure we could.
00:39:19
Speaker 2: Okay, so I was thinking about this today, too, and I was like, Because I live, okay, you think a lot on the road. I'm always thinking, my mom was a philosophy professor at Baylor. like i grew up just like super full i'm always philosophizing and so in my head i basically just live in my head all the time and that's why i love to have podcast conversations because you get to just talk about whatever is in your head but um I was thinking to myself because I was like, man, I'm really sad about the Illuminati and how they've taken over all these artists that I really loved. I was like really pissed about it in my mind because I'm like, there's so many artists that I really love, but I feel like they've been absorbed by the Illuminati and that really affects my feelings about them because I do not want to have that like on me, on my life.
00:40:03
Speaker 3: And so, but I was like, I decided in my head, I was like, I'm just.
00:40:06
Speaker 2: Going to decide for myself who I think is, is aligned with me, and I'm just going to decide that they're really good people, and that I'm going.
00:40:12
Speaker 3: To love listening to them.
00:40:14
Speaker 2: And so we watched Camp Rock 3, which is just really silly, but she watched this new movie, Camp Rock 3, and like, oh my gosh, freaking little Malachi Barton or whatever is adorable.
00:40:24
Speaker 3: And then the Jonas Brothers, and then there's this other lead singer. They're all teenagers. I mean, I'm in the teenager world right now.
00:40:29
Speaker 2: And then Freya Skye, who's in Zombies, and I'm like, there's some good stuff out there.
00:40:33
Speaker 3: And so I have been tuning in to my inner.
00:40:36
Speaker 2: you know, teenager and like looking at the new crop of these Disney stars coming up. And I'm like, I think that this new crop is aware enough to know of the darkness that they're not going to get sucked in. Like the older generation, we didn't know how to protect ourselves as much, but I think this new generation, their faith might be stronger.
00:40:54
Speaker 3: I'm just going to, I'm going to lean into it.
00:40:56
Speaker 2: Then the pool of the intoxication of what that industry can give you. I think everyone now coming up knows it will eat you alive. So I'm just going to pray that this new crop has a stronger faith to like survive it. So that's not really your answer to your question, but that's what I've been thinking.
00:41:12
Speaker 3: All right.
00:41:12
Speaker 1: I love it. You see, you are a woman of faith is what you are.
00:41:16
Speaker 3: Yes, I am.
00:41:19
Speaker 1: I tend to be more of a pessimist. And like I say, the trouble with humans is that they're made out of human. And if you give anyone enough, of anything. And suddenly the, the darkness within them comes out. It's not from the outside, which is even more terrifying where you're like, Oh no. Um, but I also believe in the light and I do think that, that, uh, yeah, beauty, beauty is happening all around us.
00:41:49
Speaker 2: I've become this strong in my faith though, out of necessity, honestly, like it, I didn't really have any other options.
00:41:56
Speaker 3: I've tried every other way. It didn't work for me.
00:41:59
Speaker 2: And now I'm at the point where I have no choice. And so the only true freedom I have to believe that this life is going to be okay is that faith really is running the show and that there really are enough of us plugging into it that we can shift the dynamics. Like I really, and shift the energy and like a kind of, we're in like a transition period right now. And so like people who are spreading the light, which you are one, you have to just like lock into it even harder because it's all going to change your butterfly effect.
00:42:31
Speaker 3: Like the butterfly effect is strong. And so it's like, I just feel like we all have to lock in.
00:42:36
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:42:36
Speaker 1: I do. I do think like all of the things that we think of like impact and having a, you know, what's the metric of this and all the numerical values of likes and views and all of that. That's the world that music is now forced to live in. But I think it's like, I'm more interested in, I do feel like prayer meditation and like the inward life is the only way forward rather than that outward, you know, like I'm going to change the world. Try first changing this and then see how that goes.
00:43:18
Speaker 3: Agreed.
00:43:19
Speaker 1: Kind of where I'm at.
00:43:20
Speaker 3: Agreed. I'm here for it. Well, I think you're doing a great butterfly effect.
00:43:24
Speaker 2: And it's really going to affect a lot of people positively and create the bigger ripple. So I'm grateful to get to chat with you about it.
00:43:32
Speaker 1: Thank you for the conversation.
00:43:33
Speaker 3: So much fun.
00:43:34
Speaker 1: I've loved it. I have a song named Caroline that you should go listen to.
00:43:38
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:43:39
Speaker 3: What's it about? Is she awesome in the song, I hope?
00:43:43
Speaker 1: She is a fictitious name of a friend of mine who's a singer. Um, I hope you love it, but it's, it is, it is one of my favorite songs to play live and, and, uh, it has been a genuine treat to chat with you.
00:43:59
Speaker 3: Yay. Me too.
00:44:01
Speaker 1: Okay.
00:44:01
Speaker 2: Well, if you're ever on tour with Jeremy Popoff, tell him that you tried it with me.
00:44:06
Speaker 1: I love it. We, I mean, we did like two, I mean, 10, 20 shows with them the last couple of years.
00:44:11
Speaker 3: I grew up with Jeremy. He dated my best friend.
00:44:14
Speaker 2: I was in a band for a long time called Runaway June. And he dated my best friend, who's Jen Wayne, who is John Wayne's granddaughter.
00:44:20
Speaker 3: We were in this band together. Wow.
00:44:23
Speaker 2: And they dated when I was in my early 20s. And so Jeremy was like my big brother. He literally, I lived with him pretty much because they were such a serious couple.
00:44:32
Speaker 3: And we traveled all the time.
00:44:33
Speaker 2: Yeah. I met my husband in that era and then he and my husband ended up touring together and they became best friends. And we always go to the slide bar and Fullerton and just like, he kind of introduced me to rock and roll. Like I had never had really like been a close friend of anyone who was in that world.
00:44:51
Speaker 3: And so I love Jeremy. He's my favorite people and AJ songs.
00:44:57
Speaker 1: What do you say?
00:44:58
Speaker 3: And AJ.
00:45:00
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:45:01
Speaker 1: And they, they have, so many good songs like when you play with them you're like oh this would do it.
00:45:08
Speaker 2: So good i know it is it really is it's so good it's so good um.
00:45:15
Speaker 3: Well i appreciate it don anything you want to.
00:45:17
Speaker 2: Make sure that we talk about where can people find you the new album is out forever now it's out now the song you have that your single is out now like all that do you even know.
00:45:29
Speaker 3: All the things that are out Yes.
00:45:31
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I don't. Yeah, we're on tour right now. The new records, I would love it if people gave it a listen. If you are, speaking of the West Coast, in San Diego or LA in June, we do an event called the Switchfoot Bro-Am that raises money. And Awareness for homeless youth and at-risk youth in our hometown. And it's surfing and rock and roll on the beach. And you should come and hang out.
00:46:02
Speaker 3: Are you a surfer?
00:46:03
Speaker 2: I am.
00:46:05
Speaker 3: I've surfed one time. And it was really exciting.
00:46:08
Speaker 1: Where did you surf?
00:46:11
Speaker 3: My husband and I went to Costa Rica for our honeymoon.
00:46:13
Speaker 1: I knew you were going to say Costa Rica. I just knew it. I knew that that was what you were going to say. Okay.
00:46:18
Speaker 3: Where did we stay in Costa Rica? I can't remember. I can't remember what we say. But we surfed and it was so fun.
00:46:28
Speaker 1: It's a blast. I mean, I do think it's a centering, grounding ritual for me that reminds me that I'm not as big as I thought I was and my problems aren't either.
00:46:38
Speaker 2: And I think anything that makes you have to like totally use your whole brain to focus on one thing has to be good for you, you know?
00:46:44
Speaker 3: Yeah. You just don't have your rabbit hole.
00:46:47
Speaker 1: In like the infinite, like truly seemingly infinite ocean.
00:46:52
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:46:52
Speaker 1: Totally. And you are very much not in control.
00:46:55
Speaker 3: No. That's so true.
00:46:57
Speaker 1: I didn't plan for that.
00:47:00
Speaker 2: I always wrap up with leave your light. And it's basically just dropping some inspiration. What would you like people to know?
00:47:14
Speaker 1: Life is short. Live it well.
00:47:15
Speaker 3: I love it. And get forever now.
00:47:21
Speaker 1: There it is.
00:47:22
Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for joining me.
00:47:24
Speaker 3: Really love getting to chat. This is so fun.
00:47:26
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thank you for the intelligent insight into the world.
00:47:31
Speaker 3: I mean, or just a bunch of hoopla. Who knows? You never know. I appreciate it. Thank you.
00:47:38
Speaker 1: Good Nashville.
00:47:39
Speaker 3: Bye.
00:47:39
Speaker 2: Bye.
