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Have you ever been drawn to a man you knew was wounded?
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And I'm sure you told yourself the same thing.
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And maybe I said to myself, maybe I can love him into healing.
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Eric, I don't understand, but a lot of us, I'm gonna put myself in this category, in a previous category, but a lot of us feel most needed when the men around us are most broken.
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Today we're not just talking about father wounds in men.
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We're talking about why some women are magnetized to them, why we see the pain, the potential, the broken places, and something inside of us just screams, I can fix that.
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What is wrong with us?
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That's a loaded question.
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What's wrong with this situation?
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I gotta be careful here.
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Um, but in a way, you're you're on track to answer your own question.
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And that is, these women have a mommy spirit, they're enablers, uh, they're self-appointed healers.
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But these men come to you broken, they're in a permanent state of adolescence, and they're happy to remain so as long as you'll keep caring for them and fe feeding them.
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But there's something that happened earlier in their life that caused some brokenness.
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And I would suggest that we look for men of of great character rather than men who have these broken in parts.
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Right.
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You know, I run a women's group and I've seen it time after time, and even in my own life when I was young, it's it's a different face in their life, but it's the same wound.
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It's the same hurtful things that are coming up over and over again, just in different relationships, but there is a pattern there.
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Why do you think women are attracted to men like that?
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Oh gosh.
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It feeds something inside of them that uh makes them feel worthy and wanted.
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Uh and I mean, I would there are sociologists that have written books and scholars that have worked on that much better than I am, but I will say this it takes a man to turn a boy into a man.
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And some of these individuals, even though they're 40 years old or or any age, they they they need a man to turn them in.
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They're emotionally uh adolescents, and they need someone to speak to them in a manner that helps them to grow up.
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Uh and so part of that is the maturation process that we talk about in our Spiritual Strategies Institute.
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Uh, but uh today we're talking about uh one of the sources of that is uh some some work that I did years ago um in my nonprofit.
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So I know we were going to talk about that a little bit uh to try to because some of them end up in harm's way, some of these men end up violating the law or they have unusual attractions to um to others, and uh some of them are looking for women who are enablers, as I said.
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And there's plenty of all that out there, and so uh in this broken culture that we have, but we're not putting up with that in in our net in our institute.
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Um we're we're here to try to offer solutions.
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We're not here to judge, but we're here to offer solutions.
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Right.
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So essentially what you're saying is when it comes to these wounded men that you know sometimes we see it as like the bad boy image or whatnot.
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But this is a wounded man, and kind of what we're gonna talk about today is where that woundedness can come from and how that can show up.
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Would you say that's right?
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Yeah, I I I'm a great believer in getting back to the root cause, not to judge, as I say, but to get back to the root cause in order to uh craft a pathway to a solution and not not one that is uh as you said, a mendigo based upon just uh excusing that or loving that or turning a blind eye to that uh and and so being uh overly hopeful of he'll change, he'll change.
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No, there's there's gotta be a a cause to to to to make somebody to change.
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There has to be something that provokes change, is what I should say.
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Right.
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Oh, I heard the statement one time, and it uh it was like, are you attracted to the strength?
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You know, because you think of this bad boy image as strength.
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So are you attracted to strength or are you attracted to the damage that makes you feel needed?
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And that was like, oh, that was uncalled for because as women we're natural caregivers.
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We want to care, we want to love, we want to protect, and things like that.
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And sometimes we just do it in the wrong way because we have our own wounds that we're trying to care for and protect.
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Yes.
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So what happens first?
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Because uh, you know, a boy's deepest validation should come from his father.
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When it doesn't, something happens inside.
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We kind of talk about it as the orphan spirit kind of takes place there, but how would you describe this?
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Yes, well, uh I I where do I begin?
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When when fathers are present in the lives of their children, all the social outcomes improve.
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Uh young boys, um first of all, people stay in school youngsters stay in school.
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Uh young boys don't need to look for external validation of their growing masculinity, uh, which can come in some some difficult ways.
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Young girls' daughters don't have to look for validation of their emerging feminine identity in wrong ways.
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Uh so this is where we end up with a bunch of social problems that uh we then have to pass legislation, we get into political fights, we have to pass budgets to handle what should have happened in the home.
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So the government is it people turn to government to solve problems for them, and then bureaucrats are trying to replace what what fathers should have done.
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It's just very awkward and it's it's very taxing, uh, quote literally and figuratively.
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And uh and so we we just want to find a different way.
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But going back to the cause, where did that cause come from?
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And I and because then I'm I'm determined, you're determined, we're together we're gonna find biblical solutions to these to these challenges.
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And so um years ago uh I started a uh a nonprofit uh to try to address this issue, and we turned to men that were in jail or prison who had who were fathers of minor children.
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Uh these men had no but what they call barrier crimes, no crimes of violence, but you know, some sometimes they were still in jail that were going to get out within six or twelve months, and they had a reasonable expectation of of being able to connect with the mother of their child, even though there was no romantic relationship remaining.
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And so there were some criteria that we we had set up uh that uh that and that they were willing to work with us.
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There's that's a big one right there.
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And so we realized that there were there was a source to this issue, without going into all the methods that we used in our nonprofit, but there was a a lot of times a source of the challenges that these men had that landed them in uh in into incarceration.
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And so uh again, the name of our of our podcast today is the wound, the message, and the vow, uh, because this is what's going on inside of these men's hearts uh before they end up breaking the law.
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Right.
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Uh and they they oftentimes have had a negative experience in in their own in their own homes growing up.
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And so um it it's just important to everybody to see, to find out what's the source of the blockage in these men's hearts.
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So um so one of the one of the things that um I want to do, as I said, was find a biblical solution to this deep, challenging social breakdown.
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Okay, so it it really, if we go back to the end of the book of Malachi, um the prophet said, This is really how the Old Testament closes.
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It says, Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet, this is meaning eventually, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord, he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.
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So what that tells us is the breakdown of a father-child relationship is the source of a massive curse, which then we look for social, political, governmental ways to try to cure.
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And it's just never enough.
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Right.
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So the original wound, you're saying one of the deepest sources of a wound is the father, son, or father-daughter, whatnot, relationships.
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And the reason that is you laid it out so simply for me that it was I I felt like a ding bat.
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Because when you said that your your earthly father is supposed to essentially show you how your heavenly father should treat you, it was like my brain exploded because I was like, wait, I don't know of me or any of my friends or anyone that I've ever met that has a dad that is just like Jesus, that when you think of him, they're like, oh man, that's such a good dad.
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Like, I've never had met anyone like that.
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And so I was absolutely mind-blown at just the thought process of wow, this could really start a big wound that you're searching to try and fix your whole life.
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But along with your wound comes a message with it.
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Tell me how these messages come with these wounds.
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Well, what starts with the father, what's the father's role?
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What's the boy's greatest thrill is when his father validates his successes and is and demonstrates that love is unconditional.
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That's a big aspect, both for a boy and both the son and the daughter, that that the father is operating from a position of authority and yet validates unconditional the emerging growth of the of the two youngsters, and he's demonstrating unconditional love.
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And so, uh, but sometimes if that father uh displays continual anger or is dismissive of his son's achievements or is emotionally unavailable or just uh you know absent all the time, that a child is gonna be deeply hurt.
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There's no getting around it because there's a hunger, there's a natural hunger.
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So he begins to emotionally distance himself from his God-given and masculine role model, his father.
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And so uh everybody's gonna have bumps and bruises in life.
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What did Jesus say?
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In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I've overcome the world.
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So he acknowledged the fact that there are challenges.
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But when his when the source of his own of this deep sorrow is his own father, that's when that boy receives a deep emotional wound.
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Eventually it's cut and it won't heal.
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Now he may be too young to describe the pain or even to realize why it's there, but the wound comes nevertheless.
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Now eventually, what a what a boy does, he responds analytically.
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I think girls respond more emotionally, but boys will respond analytically.
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Uh they don't give over to investing in their feelings.
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So this guy still wants to understand the pain that he's feeling.
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So he decodes the event in his mind and evaluates it through those filters, thereby constructing a message.
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Oh, so this is what I'm supposed to learn.
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And so this is this is what I'm supposed to take away from this experience.
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Now, that message can be self-serving.
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It's often derived to cushion the blows, the emotional blows that he's received that he's not going to acknowledge.
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And so that's that's the answer to your question.
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He gets the wound and he uses analytical filters to decode the message.
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Does that make sense?
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Yeah.
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So essentially a wound can be, even if your parent is there, if your parent is very violent or abusive and then just leaves and comes and goes whenever they want, you're learning at that point, well, I must not be valuable because they're not staying here for me, and they're violent people, and that seems like it's okay.
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And you start rationalizing all these negative behaviors that you're seeing.
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Does that sound right?
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Oh, you're you rationalize.
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Um, I want to make sure if I hear hearing you right, uh, they're not rationalizing to explain it away.
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What they're doing is saying, so this is how I'm supposed to respond.
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The young guy says, This is how I'm supposed to respond in a uh in a situation like this.
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When I've made my heart vulnerable to a man that I'm supposed to trust and supposed to learn from, um this is and and it becomes a painful experience.
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This is what I'm supposed to take away.
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So uh rather than rationalize, which just may be to explain it away, uh, but this is this is a uh a take a message to be taken away.
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And then, as you mentioned a little while ago, um then they're then they're gonna make a deep commitment.
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There's a vow that's made uh in that sense at that time.
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So words are silently exchanged between the the boy's subconscious and his conscious mind, such as, I'll never cry again, I'll never trust a man in leadership.
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Uh these are a couple of vows that he makes.
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Okay, and then sometimes he'll shake his fist at heaven and say, Why did you let this happen?
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Okay, why did you let that man, my father, uh abuse my mother uh or or be violent with her, or who knows how bad it got.
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So there's this there's this fist shaking at heaven, and so there's this barrier that's that's created.
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And here we are trying to preach to these boys and trying to keep them off out of trouble, and yet they just get in, and that's where I stepped in to go into the jails to go find these guys.
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Okay, and and it was an interesting thing because how we were gonna uh decode this and then find a solution, that's another topic for another time.
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But there's a and then so what really happens, Brittany, you've seen this, a lot of these guys develop a performance orientation.
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It could only they believe that that value is is proven.
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My my masculine value is proven by scoring points with money or women or power, uh what how fancy of a car I drive, uh, um etc.
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There's all these externals.
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And then unfortunately, some women are attracted to this external show of uh masculinity.
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And so, but these guys can then lose all respect for authority.
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They sometimes skirt the edge of the law, taking what they can get, ignoring the risk, and then there are serious consequences that flow from that.
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And that's why we got to build jails to uh to house folks like that.
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So we're never gonna stop all the disappointments and frustrations of life.
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We may not be able to get dad back in the home or back in the life of this young man.
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However, we need to help him realize the terrible risk of this self-protective approach versus the Christ-like approach that's described in the Bible.
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So that's that's where we're headed because that's the goal of our of our podcast.
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Yeah, so it seems like anytime that there is some sense of pain, it can be used to be turned into a belief system about yourself because you're trying to maybe not like I said, rationalize, but you're trying to understand what's happening.
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And if there's something wrong with you, it seems like a lot of times we internalize things instead of realizing that you know people have their own issues.
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They left because they left, not because there was anything wrong with you.
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But we'd like to internalize a lot of these things, then those become our belief systems.
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Is that essentially what I'm hearing?
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Internalize, internalize what's what they believe to be true about the situation, whatever that is.
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Oh, sure, sure, absolutely, yes.
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And so um so you you had um mentioned to me before we started a lot of a lot of women that you know feel overwhelmed by circumstances like this, and they may try to lecture the guy, they may to try to encourage him, they may turn a blind eye, they may try to mother him, but none of those are are frankly gonna last, they're not gonna work.
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Yeah.
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I know I'm not the only one that has friends that will come ask them for advice, and no matter which man it is, it's always the same problem.
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Just a different face, but the same problem in every relationship.
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Yes, and it's because we're picking based on our wounds and what we need to heal in ourselves, we're just outwardly finding those things because we're used to the chaos.
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Wow, that's powerful, that's powerful.
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So, but what we are saying is that believe it or not, this book we've got, the Bible, has solutions, has answers for this kind of issue.
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And so I'm I think we just want to sit up and pay attention to that.
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So the um so the counterfeit response is three words pretend, protect, and prevent.
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So pretend is when the wound comes, when my heart is broken, this is the young man, because of an absent or abusive father.
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I just pretend it doesn't hurt.
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Yeah, man up.
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I'm taught to man up, you know, there you go.
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I hide the pain, I learned that love is conditional, and so vulnerability is foolish.
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So uh love is conditional.
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So what that's in eventually when I have a a woman in my life, love will be conditional there as well.
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Okay, she you know, there are things I expect in order to uh remain in that relationship.
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Okay, so step two is protect.
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So as he derives a message from this wound, uh the boy, the boy develops this hard demeanor.
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He tries to shield his heart from pain, and then he says, you know, I need to be nurtured.
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Guess what he looks for?
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The mother.
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A mother.
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He wants to find a woman who can nurture him because he feels alone.
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Somebody needs to look out for me.
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Yeah.
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Okay, and there's no end to the number of women that might be available to stand in line to go ahead and do that.
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So they find strong females who will carry the load, thus enabling these men to remain in this emotionally dependent state for years.
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Okay.
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Oh my goodness.
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They do a deal, they just make a deal.
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Essentially, they don't have to say the words, they don't even have to be aware of it, but they're really engaged in a deal.
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And you know, there was this one woman.
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I used to be in a women's group, um, like just um like for young moms when my kids were young.
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And uh, there was this one woman there, and all the other women were so envious of her because she would come in and she'd be like, Um, oh no, I don't have my kids today.
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And they're like, Oh, where are they at?
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They'd be like, Oh, you know, my husband took them and he's taking them to here and there and going to get them food, and he's gonna have dinner.
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And we all would just look at her, and I remember her being like, I'm the normal one, y'all are not the normal ones because we all took care of everything and did everything and was leading the home and the yard and the bills and the cars and the absolutely everything.
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And I was mind-blown that somebody actually lived the way that it sounded like should be normal, but really wasn't because we're all mothering our husbands.
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Oh goodness.
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Well, so there's this okay, as I said, they're they're finding females who will carry the load, and then the third P is prevent.
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So the boy makes an inappropriate vow to himself, preventing authentic masculine relationships and even male female relationships.
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And so he'll say, I'm going to avoid trusting other men.
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Nobody's gonna punk me ever again.
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So some become bullies, tell me.
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Showing how hard and tough they are.
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Some are actually drawn to other men in unusual ways, trying to fill the daddy gap with counterfeit forms of approval and affection.
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Sometimes what what they're saying is, my will, my decision is what's paramount.
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Okay, and of course, the the Bible is saying, no, thy will be done.
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Jesus uh submitted his will to the will of his father.
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So we don't want to we don't want to take over and and ha and have our will become paramount.
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So um so they're looking to build a barrier between themselves and any other male figure that comes along later in life.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.200
Uh imagine if they are drawn to Jesus eventually.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:58.640
They bring this burden of unresolved bitterness, and then they have all these external behaviors that are that just they're they're constantly in debt.
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:03.200
Uh they're um they're spending money that they hadn't they don't have.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:19.440
Um they're um there's just so many indicators that are unfortunate, but uh they can't find uh hold on to a job, they can't they're not um economically stable, uh they can't really provide for their family.
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:27.440
So even after they receive joy Jesus, they they're still wondering why they don't hear the voice of their heavenly father.
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.799
They're still searching for their purpose, and it's because they're struggling to trust him.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:33.519
Okay.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.559
So these men become double-minded.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:42.640
And and so you had a a verse uh that you wanted to read us uh James 1 8, is that right?
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:43.759
James 1 8.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.440
He is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:59.920
So these men are double-minded in the sense of what they're hungering to know God's will for their life, but simultaneously asserting their independence from him.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:00.880
Yeah.
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:06.000
Because there are you see that it's go over there, but love me.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:15.119
Um I'm telling you, so and the you know, you just read what the Bible teaches us um because they don't trust him when he speaks.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:21.440
So if my daddy couldn't be trusted, how can I possibly trust uh my father, my father in heaven?
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:28.400
So this is what and this is what the uh prophet Samuel experienced, and I think you have a verse for this too.
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.720
The prophet Samuel experienced when the Israelites demanded a king.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.839
And so what did the Lord tell the prophet?
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:48.799
First Samuel 8 7 says, And the Lord said to Samuel, heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:50.000
There you go.
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:53.200
So it it really doesn't have to be this way.
00:24:53.519 --> 00:25:08.079
So the the the brutal result of this autonomous lifestyle flows from a broken heart and eventually crushes a man, all because he took a counterfeit approach to the original wound.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.559
Uh, and that's what's a shame.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:12.319
That's that's heartbreaking.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:26.880
And so we we just here in the Spiritual Strategies Institute, we maintain that the Bible proposes a viable alternative to this maddening self-destructive cycle.
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:27.359
Okay.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:35.599
So instead, what you're saying is instead of getting, well, once you receive the wound, because it's impossible to not receive wounds, let's just be real.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.200
We're gonna have some wound in our life that's gonna be like, what is going on?
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:45.920
But once we recognize that there's a wound, you're saying there is a Christ-like approach to this that we can get help?
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:46.960
Yes.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:26:01.039
And let's just go ahead and and and take the the obvious thing, and that is wasn't there a passage, passage in the Sermon on the Mount uh in Matthew 6 that you uh that you had available to read to us?
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:08.079
In Matthew 6, 14 and 15, it says, For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.880
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.160
Boy, that's tough.
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:14.960
That's tough.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.559
That sounds pretty intense.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:27.200
So here's my question to those men, and I'll just ask you, how much of God's forgiveness would I like to have for myself?
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:28.960
100%.
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:30.000
Okay.
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:38.000
So but given given what we just read, it says you've got to give it a and okay.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:49.279
So isn't it just a self-protective illusion to trap the one who offended me behind some emotional bars of our heart?
00:26:49.519 --> 00:27:05.680
I was working with a uh a business owner in the Midwest one time, and I did after conversing with him, I was coaching him, I realized that he had trapped his own father inside of an emotional prison.
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:11.680
Yes, there had been some deep wounding and challenges 30 years previous.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:20.880
This man, 30 years later, was still carrying, he was a successful businessman, but he was still carrying um had set up a jail.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:42.319
And I said to him, You have a one-man jail in your heart, and it's very expensive to incarcerate a man uh behind prison walls, and yet you have uh you're carrying him, and and I I dare say it would be beneficial if you would liberate him from the this jail.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.799
So we you know we we coached around that.
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:51.920
So so number one is to release, release these individuals from the emotional jail that you have.
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:53.519
Now that's forgiving them.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.000
That doesn't mean that you have to excuse their behavior.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.000
Some people could have really gotten hurt, but you do have to go.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:09.200
I release the ability to hold them responsible, hold them in my heart, hold them with so much anger, and I release that to God.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.160
Let him have the vengeance if vengeance be needed.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.319
Okay, there we go.
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:24.160
Um, and so the the second thing after after uh releasing them is to receive, what are we receiving?
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:25.599
Receive the grace of God.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:41.759
This uh the this grace is like a heavenly fuel supply, and we can uh operate much differently if we operate on grace rather than emotional um fear, disappointment, brokenness.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:43.920
And so that there is a way.
00:28:44.079 --> 00:29:02.640
I'm not saying this stuff is easy, but there's it's forgiveness, receive the grace of God, and then step three would be eventually to make or to resolve to make a new vow, to change the vow that we made from I'll never trust a man, I'll never trust God, and make a new vow.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:09.039
And that is to the vow is I'm determined to follow the model that Jesus applied.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:26.720
I'm gonna seek out God's will, and I'm going to make a uh I'm gonna approach this much differently so that I die to self and ex and expect and receive a resurrection of my own of my own um sense of worth.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:39.519
And I realize, you know, God has a purpose for me, and and I want to seek it, and I'm gonna submit to that and not maintain my own fist-shaking approach toward heaven.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:40.160
Right.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:44.000
You become a peacemaker, become the father that you didn't have even.
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.880
To become the father you didn't have, or allow God to become the father, yes.
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:54.559
Allow God to become the father you didn't have, but also you as well through that relationship.
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:02.640
What does it look like when someone starts healing from this?
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.240
Well, it looks like there's there's a peace that passes all understanding.
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:10.960
This is one of the things the Bible promises.
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.640
Uh, there is, and and this is the challenging thing.
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:25.359
When this man stops acting like a little boy and starts growing up, um uh there may be challenges in the relationship.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:34.079
If he's if he is married or has a um a relationship with a woman, there's uh here he comes and starts acting differently.
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:41.119
He no longer is dependent upon her uh in the old ways, and he starts man he starts to man up.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.559
Um she may be surprised by that.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.119
Surprised is a nice word.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.720
Surprised by that.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:14.160
And uh and so we would invite her to uh to receive the freedom that get comes from this relationship and allow him uh to to we to to cultivate, to keep, to protect all the things we talked about in previous podcasts, what men are supposed to do, what they're what they're designed to do by God Himself.
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:30.640
You know, we we we spoke previously about how Adam had five assignments before he before Eve ever came on the scene, and to to learn how to uh provide, protect, uh to cultivate, uh to be in relationship with God.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.960
So there were several aspects that were important before that.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:53.759
So as he begins to uh seek God for himself, it would be great if that woman were to respond faithfully and allow him to pursue that and participate in that uh in that new um uh state of mind that he has.
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:54.799
Right.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:01.920
So it seems like there are definitely ways that you can come back, release, receive, and resolve.
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:09.920
So once you've done that though, or let me restate this the process to do that could be identifying your wound.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:21.599
So you have to figure out what actually hurt you, which may take some time to kind of deep dive and figure out, you know, when I I always react like this or I always get mad at this, but I can't really figure out why.
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.039
That's where I start.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:37.599
Then name the message that you believed, write down the vow that you made, replace it with a holy vow, and then find like a mentor or something like that that can help you through this because like you've talked about it a lot, like spiritual fathers.
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.480
That's really, really important to growth.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:46.160
Yes, find a mature man of God who will counsel, even if you have a son.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:54.880
Because you've asked in the past, well, what about uh what about if I have a son who has an absent or abusive father?
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:07.440
Let's catch this early, because that son may be showing signs uh of what we're talking about here, of hardening his heart toward God or having a hyper-religious approach.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:11.359
There's any number of of challenges that that that is shown.
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:22.000
But find an authentic man of God to come into your son's life and uh and and and nurture him and talk to him, help him grow up.
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.839
So that's that that's one important thing to consider.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:44.240
You know something though that I'm thinking through something that I'm thinking through here is that sometimes these wounds are so embarrassing or so shameful, and that is why we don't say anything about them and we leave that door shut.
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:56.799
But that is so such a big part of our testimony, and God is such a redeeming God that sometimes the very wounds that we're hiding are what we're supposed to share to go into our calling.
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:05.279
It is your whole purpose in life, and that's why the enemy pushes down and makes those wounds hurt so deeply so that you never say anything about them.
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:10.079
Yes, it might be might be embarrassed, might have shame.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:23.360
And so um we've developed a couple of tools in our uh toolkit, uh the spiritual orphans and spiritual sons, and the other one is called Liberating My Uh My Offenders.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:30.880
And so uh they are designed to help an individual to externalize just what you said.
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.679
Maybe they won't say it out loud, but at least they'll write it down or type it into a document.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:50.880
And so uh that's what gets the process started to identify you know where I've been hurt, how I've been hurt, and to begin the process of making a new vow, uh, as we've said here on this on this discussion.
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:52.000
So go ahead.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:35:05.599
You know, and for the women listening to this, I think this is so important, just like we're talking about here, like what's the wound, what's the message, what's the vow to the men who have these hardcore personalities, these bad boy personality types.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.760
What is uh what is your wound?
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:10.400
What is your wound that makes you pick somebody like that?
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:14.400
What's the message you've told yourself about why you need someone like that?
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:20.800
What's the vow that you've set in your mind that says, this is this is where I'm gonna be, this is what I have to have?
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:30.800
Like look look at it practically from your side as well, because I think that's a really big deal to self-reflect on why you're seeing different faces but having the same issues.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.239
Yes, and it comes down to that word identity.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:50.079
There are people, both men and women, who carry an identity of being an orphan, of being unworthy, and and they feel like all I can receive is abuse and uh disfunction, disunity.
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.159
And no, that's not true.
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:56.079
That's not that's not what's written in the book.
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.519
Uh that's not what's in in the Lord's uh approach.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:06.000
Um so anything anything less than that, again, they is is just dysfunctional.
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:11.119
We it'd be good if we could admit uh the source of this.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:20.480
And again, women sometimes are looking to validate their feminine identity in in just inappropriate manner.
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:27.760
And so that's that's uh they if again they feel unworthy and I just it breaks my heart.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:29.440
It's not it's not true.
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.559
God God looks wants something different for them.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.000
Absolutely.
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:34.800
Well, thank you.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:42.239
Thank you for taking the time to go over this, kind of talk about the orphan spirit, and you know, explain that this this is serious.
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:48.800
The wound that we get when we are in childhood, they they fester if they're not taken care of properly.
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:58.480
So being able to go in and identify the wound, name the message, write down the vow you made, and replace it with the correct vowel and seek mentorship, that is the way to go.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:36:59.119
Yes.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:04.960
And if this episode resonated with you today, share it with someone who needs to hear that their story isn't finished yet.
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:07.119
Bye guys.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:24.719
Have you ever been drawn to a man you knew was wounded?
00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:26.960
And I'm sure you told yourself the same thing.
00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:31.760
And maybe I said to myself, maybe I can love him into healing.
00:00:32.399 --> 00:00:44.240
Eric, I don't understand, but a lot of us, I'm gonna put myself in this category, in a previous category, but a lot of us feel most needed when the men around us are most broken.
00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.560
Today we're not just talking about father wounds in men.
00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:59.840
We're talking about why some women are magnetized to them, why we see the pain, the potential, the broken places, and something inside of us just screams, I can fix that.
00:01:00.079 --> 00:01:01.679
What is wrong with us?
00:01:04.159 --> 00:01:05.439
That's a loaded question.
00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:07.120
What's wrong with this situation?
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:09.040
I gotta be careful here.
00:01:09.280 --> 00:01:13.200
Um, but in a way, you're you're on track to answer your own question.
00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:19.680
And that is, these women have a mommy spirit, they're enablers, uh, they're self-appointed healers.
00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:34.640
But these men come to you broken, they're in a permanent state of adolescence, and they're happy to remain so as long as you'll keep caring for them and fe feeding them.
00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:40.719
But there's something that happened earlier in their life that caused some brokenness.
00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:51.840
And I would suggest that we look for men of of great character rather than men who have these broken in parts.
00:01:52.319 --> 00:01:52.799
Right.
00:01:53.040 --> 00:02:02.400
You know, I run a women's group and I've seen it time after time, and even in my own life when I was young, it's it's a different face in their life, but it's the same wound.
00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:09.680
It's the same hurtful things that are coming up over and over again, just in different relationships, but there is a pattern there.
00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:14.400
Why do you think women are attracted to men like that?
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:16.159
Oh gosh.
00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:22.800
It feeds something inside of them that uh makes them feel worthy and wanted.
00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:34.960
Uh and I mean, I would there are sociologists that have written books and scholars that have worked on that much better than I am, but I will say this it takes a man to turn a boy into a man.
00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:44.479
And some of these individuals, even though they're 40 years old or or any age, they they they need a man to turn them in.
00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:53.599
They're emotionally uh adolescents, and they need someone to speak to them in a manner that helps them to grow up.
00:02:53.840 --> 00:03:02.560
Uh and so part of that is the maturation process that we talk about in our Spiritual Strategies Institute.
00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:13.039
Uh, but uh today we're talking about uh one of the sources of that is uh some some work that I did years ago um in my nonprofit.
00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:35.039
So I know we were going to talk about that a little bit uh to try to because some of them end up in harm's way, some of these men end up violating the law or they have unusual attractions to um to others, and uh some of them are looking for women who are enablers, as I said.
00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:44.719
And there's plenty of all that out there, and so uh in this broken culture that we have, but we're not putting up with that in in our net in our institute.
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:47.680
Um we're we're here to try to offer solutions.
00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:51.439
We're not here to judge, but we're here to offer solutions.
00:03:51.919 --> 00:03:52.319
Right.
00:03:52.560 --> 00:04:02.000
So essentially what you're saying is when it comes to these wounded men that you know sometimes we see it as like the bad boy image or whatnot.
00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:08.719
But this is a wounded man, and kind of what we're gonna talk about today is where that woundedness can come from and how that can show up.
00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:09.840
Would you say that's right?
00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:38.720
Yeah, I I I'm a great believer in getting back to the root cause, not to judge, as I say, but to get back to the root cause in order to uh craft a pathway to a solution and not not one that is uh as you said, a mendigo based upon just uh excusing that or loving that or turning a blind eye to that uh and and so being uh overly hopeful of he'll change, he'll change.
00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.839
No, there's there's gotta be a a cause to to to to make somebody to change.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.120
There has to be something that provokes change, is what I should say.
00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:48.079
Right.
00:04:48.399 --> 00:04:53.439
Oh, I heard the statement one time, and it uh it was like, are you attracted to the strength?
00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:55.759
You know, because you think of this bad boy image as strength.
00:04:55.839 --> 00:05:01.040
So are you attracted to strength or are you attracted to the damage that makes you feel needed?
00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:06.560
And that was like, oh, that was uncalled for because as women we're natural caregivers.
00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:10.160
We want to care, we want to love, we want to protect, and things like that.
00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:16.720
And sometimes we just do it in the wrong way because we have our own wounds that we're trying to care for and protect.
00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:18.399
Yes.
00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:20.720
So what happens first?
00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:24.720
Because uh, you know, a boy's deepest validation should come from his father.
00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:28.480
When it doesn't, something happens inside.
00:05:28.639 --> 00:05:34.000
We kind of talk about it as the orphan spirit kind of takes place there, but how would you describe this?
00:05:34.399 --> 00:05:39.279
Yes, well, uh I I where do I begin?
00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:46.560
When when fathers are present in the lives of their children, all the social outcomes improve.
00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:52.639
Uh young boys, um first of all, people stay in school youngsters stay in school.
00:05:52.800 --> 00:06:04.399
Uh young boys don't need to look for external validation of their growing masculinity, uh, which can come in some some difficult ways.
00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:12.000
Young girls' daughters don't have to look for validation of their emerging feminine identity in wrong ways.
00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:26.399
Uh so this is where we end up with a bunch of social problems that uh we then have to pass legislation, we get into political fights, we have to pass budgets to handle what should have happened in the home.
00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:36.879
So the government is it people turn to government to solve problems for them, and then bureaucrats are trying to replace what what fathers should have done.
00:06:37.040 --> 00:06:42.959
It's just very awkward and it's it's very taxing, uh, quote literally and figuratively.
00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.480
And uh and so we we just want to find a different way.
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.399
But going back to the cause, where did that cause come from?
00:06:50.560 --> 00:07:00.240
And I and because then I'm I'm determined, you're determined, we're together we're gonna find biblical solutions to these to these challenges.
00:07:00.480 --> 00:07:15.439
And so um years ago uh I started a uh a nonprofit uh to try to address this issue, and we turned to men that were in jail or prison who had who were fathers of minor children.
00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:35.920
Uh these men had no but what they call barrier crimes, no crimes of violence, but you know, some sometimes they were still in jail that were going to get out within six or twelve months, and they had a reasonable expectation of of being able to connect with the mother of their child, even though there was no romantic relationship remaining.
00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:43.680
And so there were some criteria that we we had set up uh that uh that and that they were willing to work with us.
00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:45.839
There's that's a big one right there.
00:07:46.240 --> 00:08:03.519
And so we realized that there were there was a source to this issue, without going into all the methods that we used in our nonprofit, but there was a a lot of times a source of the challenges that these men had that landed them in uh in into incarceration.
00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:19.120
And so uh again, the name of our of our podcast today is the wound, the message, and the vow, uh, because this is what's going on inside of these men's hearts uh before they end up breaking the law.
00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:19.519
Right.
00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:28.240
Uh and they they oftentimes have had a negative experience in in their own in their own homes growing up.
00:08:28.480 --> 00:08:37.519
And so um it it's just important to everybody to see, to find out what's the source of the blockage in these men's hearts.
00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:49.600
So um so one of the one of the things that um I want to do, as I said, was find a biblical solution to this deep, challenging social breakdown.
00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:58.960
Okay, so it it really, if we go back to the end of the book of Malachi, um the prophet said, This is really how the Old Testament closes.
00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:16.559
It says, Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet, this is meaning eventually, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord, he will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the hearts of the children to their fathers, lest I come and strike the earth with a curse.
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:33.279
So what that tells us is the breakdown of a father-child relationship is the source of a massive curse, which then we look for social, political, governmental ways to try to cure.
00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:35.519
And it's just never enough.
00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:36.480
Right.
00:09:36.559 --> 00:09:45.759
So the original wound, you're saying one of the deepest sources of a wound is the father, son, or father-daughter, whatnot, relationships.
00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:52.559
And the reason that is you laid it out so simply for me that it was I I felt like a ding bat.
00:09:52.720 --> 00:10:17.039
Because when you said that your your earthly father is supposed to essentially show you how your heavenly father should treat you, it was like my brain exploded because I was like, wait, I don't know of me or any of my friends or anyone that I've ever met that has a dad that is just like Jesus, that when you think of him, they're like, oh man, that's such a good dad.
00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:20.159
Like, I've never had met anyone like that.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:31.440
And so I was absolutely mind-blown at just the thought process of wow, this could really start a big wound that you're searching to try and fix your whole life.
00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.279
But along with your wound comes a message with it.
00:10:35.519 --> 00:10:38.000
Tell me how these messages come with these wounds.
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:43.519
Well, what starts with the father, what's the father's role?
00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:53.039
What's the boy's greatest thrill is when his father validates his successes and is and demonstrates that love is unconditional.
00:10:53.279 --> 00:11:15.039
That's a big aspect, both for a boy and both the son and the daughter, that that the father is operating from a position of authority and yet validates unconditional the emerging growth of the of the two youngsters, and he's demonstrating unconditional love.
00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:32.559
And so, uh, but sometimes if that father uh displays continual anger or is dismissive of his son's achievements or is emotionally unavailable or just uh you know absent all the time, that a child is gonna be deeply hurt.
00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:36.720
There's no getting around it because there's a hunger, there's a natural hunger.
00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:44.559
So he begins to emotionally distance himself from his God-given and masculine role model, his father.
00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:49.120
And so uh everybody's gonna have bumps and bruises in life.
00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:50.559
What did Jesus say?
00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:55.759
In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I've overcome the world.
00:11:56.000 --> 00:11:58.960
So he acknowledged the fact that there are challenges.
00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:10.480
But when his when the source of his own of this deep sorrow is his own father, that's when that boy receives a deep emotional wound.
00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.519
Eventually it's cut and it won't heal.
00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:20.960
Now he may be too young to describe the pain or even to realize why it's there, but the wound comes nevertheless.
00:12:21.279 --> 00:12:26.320
Now eventually, what a what a boy does, he responds analytically.
00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:32.480
I think girls respond more emotionally, but boys will respond analytically.
00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:36.080
Uh they don't give over to investing in their feelings.
00:12:36.320 --> 00:12:40.320
So this guy still wants to understand the pain that he's feeling.
00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:49.279
So he decodes the event in his mind and evaluates it through those filters, thereby constructing a message.
00:12:49.679 --> 00:12:52.639
Oh, so this is what I'm supposed to learn.
00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:57.120
And so this is this is what I'm supposed to take away from this experience.
00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:59.919
Now, that message can be self-serving.
00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:07.840
It's often derived to cushion the blows, the emotional blows that he's received that he's not going to acknowledge.
00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.360
And so that's that's the answer to your question.
00:13:11.519 --> 00:13:17.360
He gets the wound and he uses analytical filters to decode the message.
00:13:17.519 --> 00:13:18.480
Does that make sense?
00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:19.039
Yeah.
00:13:19.200 --> 00:13:38.559
So essentially a wound can be, even if your parent is there, if your parent is very violent or abusive and then just leaves and comes and goes whenever they want, you're learning at that point, well, I must not be valuable because they're not staying here for me, and they're violent people, and that seems like it's okay.
00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:43.840
And you start rationalizing all these negative behaviors that you're seeing.
00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:45.279
Does that sound right?
00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:47.679
Oh, you're you rationalize.
00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:54.879
Um, I want to make sure if I hear hearing you right, uh, they're not rationalizing to explain it away.
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.480
What they're doing is saying, so this is how I'm supposed to respond.
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:04.399
The young guy says, This is how I'm supposed to respond in a uh in a situation like this.
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:17.919
When I've made my heart vulnerable to a man that I'm supposed to trust and supposed to learn from, um this is and and it becomes a painful experience.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:19.919
This is what I'm supposed to take away.
00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:30.159
So uh rather than rationalize, which just may be to explain it away, uh, but this is this is a uh a take a message to be taken away.
00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:36.480
And then, as you mentioned a little while ago, um then they're then they're gonna make a deep commitment.
00:14:36.639 --> 00:14:41.440
There's a vow that's made uh in that sense at that time.
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:52.799
So words are silently exchanged between the the boy's subconscious and his conscious mind, such as, I'll never cry again, I'll never trust a man in leadership.
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.600
Uh these are a couple of vows that he makes.
00:14:55.759 --> 00:15:02.399
Okay, and then sometimes he'll shake his fist at heaven and say, Why did you let this happen?
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:12.799
Okay, why did you let that man, my father, uh abuse my mother uh or or be violent with her, or who knows how bad it got.
00:15:13.039 --> 00:15:20.080
So there's this there's this fist shaking at heaven, and so there's this barrier that's that's created.
00:15:20.240 --> 00:15:32.399
And here we are trying to preach to these boys and trying to keep them off out of trouble, and yet they just get in, and that's where I stepped in to go into the jails to go find these guys.
00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:42.000
Okay, and and it was an interesting thing because how we were gonna uh decode this and then find a solution, that's another topic for another time.
00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:49.919
But there's a and then so what really happens, Brittany, you've seen this, a lot of these guys develop a performance orientation.
00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:54.080
It could only they believe that that value is is proven.
00:15:54.240 --> 00:16:05.840
My my masculine value is proven by scoring points with money or women or power, uh what how fancy of a car I drive, uh, um etc.
00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:07.679
There's all these externals.
00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:16.399
And then unfortunately, some women are attracted to this external show of uh masculinity.
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.399
And so, but these guys can then lose all respect for authority.
00:16:20.559 --> 00:16:29.279
They sometimes skirt the edge of the law, taking what they can get, ignoring the risk, and then there are serious consequences that flow from that.
00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:34.080
And that's why we got to build jails to uh to house folks like that.
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.480
So we're never gonna stop all the disappointments and frustrations of life.
00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:43.600
We may not be able to get dad back in the home or back in the life of this young man.
00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:54.399
However, we need to help him realize the terrible risk of this self-protective approach versus the Christ-like approach that's described in the Bible.
00:16:54.720 --> 00:17:00.240
So that's that's where we're headed because that's the goal of our of our podcast.
00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:16.960
Yeah, so it seems like anytime that there is some sense of pain, it can be used to be turned into a belief system about yourself because you're trying to maybe not like I said, rationalize, but you're trying to understand what's happening.
00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:24.319
And if there's something wrong with you, it seems like a lot of times we internalize things instead of realizing that you know people have their own issues.
00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.839
They left because they left, not because there was anything wrong with you.
00:17:28.160 --> 00:17:32.079
But we'd like to internalize a lot of these things, then those become our belief systems.
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:33.759
Is that essentially what I'm hearing?
00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:40.880
Internalize, internalize what's what they believe to be true about the situation, whatever that is.
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.599
Oh, sure, sure, absolutely, yes.
00:17:43.920 --> 00:18:07.920
And so um so you you had um mentioned to me before we started a lot of a lot of women that you know feel overwhelmed by circumstances like this, and they may try to lecture the guy, they may to try to encourage him, they may turn a blind eye, they may try to mother him, but none of those are are frankly gonna last, they're not gonna work.
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:08.400
Yeah.
00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:17.200
I know I'm not the only one that has friends that will come ask them for advice, and no matter which man it is, it's always the same problem.
00:18:17.759 --> 00:18:22.240
Just a different face, but the same problem in every relationship.
00:18:22.480 --> 00:18:32.319
Yes, and it's because we're picking based on our wounds and what we need to heal in ourselves, we're just outwardly finding those things because we're used to the chaos.
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:35.200
Wow, that's powerful, that's powerful.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:46.240
So, but what we are saying is that believe it or not, this book we've got, the Bible, has solutions, has answers for this kind of issue.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:51.680
And so I'm I think we just want to sit up and pay attention to that.
00:18:51.839 --> 00:18:59.920
So the um so the counterfeit response is three words pretend, protect, and prevent.
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:08.559
So pretend is when the wound comes, when my heart is broken, this is the young man, because of an absent or abusive father.
00:19:08.640 --> 00:19:10.000
I just pretend it doesn't hurt.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:10.640
Yeah, man up.
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:12.799
I'm taught to man up, you know, there you go.
00:19:12.960 --> 00:19:17.839
I hide the pain, I learned that love is conditional, and so vulnerability is foolish.
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:20.160
So uh love is conditional.
00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:26.240
So what that's in eventually when I have a a woman in my life, love will be conditional there as well.
00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:33.039
Okay, she you know, there are things I expect in order to uh remain in that relationship.
00:19:33.279 --> 00:19:36.079
Okay, so step two is protect.
00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:42.960
So as he derives a message from this wound, uh the boy, the boy develops this hard demeanor.
00:19:43.279 --> 00:19:48.799
He tries to shield his heart from pain, and then he says, you know, I need to be nurtured.
00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:50.640
Guess what he looks for?
00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:51.839
The mother.
00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:52.559
A mother.
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:57.680
He wants to find a woman who can nurture him because he feels alone.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:59.839
Somebody needs to look out for me.
00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:00.640
Yeah.
00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:08.559
Okay, and there's no end to the number of women that might be available to stand in line to go ahead and do that.
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:18.960
So they find strong females who will carry the load, thus enabling these men to remain in this emotionally dependent state for years.
00:20:19.359 --> 00:20:19.680
Okay.
00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:21.039
Oh my goodness.
00:20:21.359 --> 00:20:23.519
They do a deal, they just make a deal.
00:20:23.680 --> 00:20:30.799
Essentially, they don't have to say the words, they don't even have to be aware of it, but they're really engaged in a deal.
00:20:31.119 --> 00:20:33.680
And you know, there was this one woman.
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:39.839
I used to be in a women's group, um, like just um like for young moms when my kids were young.
00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:50.000
And uh, there was this one woman there, and all the other women were so envious of her because she would come in and she'd be like, Um, oh no, I don't have my kids today.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:50.960
And they're like, Oh, where are they at?
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:56.480
They'd be like, Oh, you know, my husband took them and he's taking them to here and there and going to get them food, and he's gonna have dinner.
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:14.880
And we all would just look at her, and I remember her being like, I'm the normal one, y'all are not the normal ones because we all took care of everything and did everything and was leading the home and the yard and the bills and the cars and the absolutely everything.
00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:25.680
And I was mind-blown that somebody actually lived the way that it sounded like should be normal, but really wasn't because we're all mothering our husbands.
00:21:27.279 --> 00:21:28.480
Oh goodness.
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:40.799
Well, so there's this okay, as I said, they're they're finding females who will carry the load, and then the third P is prevent.
00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:50.960
So the boy makes an inappropriate vow to himself, preventing authentic masculine relationships and even male female relationships.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.240
And so he'll say, I'm going to avoid trusting other men.
00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.119
Nobody's gonna punk me ever again.
00:21:57.519 --> 00:21:59.839
So some become bullies, tell me.
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.319
Showing how hard and tough they are.
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:11.039
Some are actually drawn to other men in unusual ways, trying to fill the daddy gap with counterfeit forms of approval and affection.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:19.440
Sometimes what what they're saying is, my will, my decision is what's paramount.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:24.880
Okay, and of course, the the Bible is saying, no, thy will be done.
00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:28.799
Jesus uh submitted his will to the will of his father.
00:22:28.960 --> 00:22:34.799
So we don't want to we don't want to take over and and ha and have our will become paramount.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:43.920
So um so they're looking to build a barrier between themselves and any other male figure that comes along later in life.
00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.200
Uh imagine if they are drawn to Jesus eventually.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:58.640
They bring this burden of unresolved bitterness, and then they have all these external behaviors that are that just they're they're constantly in debt.
00:22:58.880 --> 00:23:03.200
Uh they're um they're spending money that they hadn't they don't have.
00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:19.440
Um they're um there's just so many indicators that are unfortunate, but uh they can't find uh hold on to a job, they can't they're not um economically stable, uh they can't really provide for their family.
00:23:19.759 --> 00:23:27.440
So even after they receive joy Jesus, they they're still wondering why they don't hear the voice of their heavenly father.
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:32.799
They're still searching for their purpose, and it's because they're struggling to trust him.
00:23:33.200 --> 00:23:33.519
Okay.
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:36.559
So these men become double-minded.
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:42.640
And and so you had a a verse uh that you wanted to read us uh James 1 8, is that right?
00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:43.759
James 1 8.
00:23:43.839 --> 00:23:47.440
He is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:59.920
So these men are double-minded in the sense of what they're hungering to know God's will for their life, but simultaneously asserting their independence from him.
00:24:00.559 --> 00:24:00.880
Yeah.
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:06.000
Because there are you see that it's go over there, but love me.
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:15.119
Um I'm telling you, so and the you know, you just read what the Bible teaches us um because they don't trust him when he speaks.
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:21.440
So if my daddy couldn't be trusted, how can I possibly trust uh my father, my father in heaven?
00:24:21.680 --> 00:24:28.400
So this is what and this is what the uh prophet Samuel experienced, and I think you have a verse for this too.
00:24:28.640 --> 00:24:32.720
The prophet Samuel experienced when the Israelites demanded a king.
00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:35.839
And so what did the Lord tell the prophet?
00:24:36.400 --> 00:24:48.799
First Samuel 8 7 says, And the Lord said to Samuel, heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you, for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.
00:24:49.119 --> 00:24:50.000
There you go.
00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:53.200
So it it really doesn't have to be this way.
00:24:53.519 --> 00:25:08.079
So the the the brutal result of this autonomous lifestyle flows from a broken heart and eventually crushes a man, all because he took a counterfeit approach to the original wound.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:10.559
Uh, and that's what's a shame.
00:25:10.799 --> 00:25:12.319
That's that's heartbreaking.
00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:26.880
And so we we just here in the Spiritual Strategies Institute, we maintain that the Bible proposes a viable alternative to this maddening self-destructive cycle.
00:25:27.200 --> 00:25:27.359
Okay.
00:25:27.759 --> 00:25:35.599
So instead, what you're saying is instead of getting, well, once you receive the wound, because it's impossible to not receive wounds, let's just be real.
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.200
We're gonna have some wound in our life that's gonna be like, what is going on?
00:25:39.359 --> 00:25:45.920
But once we recognize that there's a wound, you're saying there is a Christ-like approach to this that we can get help?
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:46.960
Yes.
00:25:47.200 --> 00:26:01.039
And let's just go ahead and and and take the the obvious thing, and that is wasn't there a passage, passage in the Sermon on the Mount uh in Matthew 6 that you uh that you had available to read to us?
00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:08.079
In Matthew 6, 14 and 15, it says, For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.880
But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your father forgive your trespasses.
00:26:13.200 --> 00:26:14.160
Boy, that's tough.
00:26:14.319 --> 00:26:14.960
That's tough.
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.559
That sounds pretty intense.
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:27.200
So here's my question to those men, and I'll just ask you, how much of God's forgiveness would I like to have for myself?
00:26:28.319 --> 00:26:28.960
100%.
00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:30.000
Okay.
00:26:30.559 --> 00:26:38.000
So but given given what we just read, it says you've got to give it a and okay.
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:49.279
So isn't it just a self-protective illusion to trap the one who offended me behind some emotional bars of our heart?
00:26:49.519 --> 00:27:05.680
I was working with a uh a business owner in the Midwest one time, and I did after conversing with him, I was coaching him, I realized that he had trapped his own father inside of an emotional prison.
00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:11.680
Yes, there had been some deep wounding and challenges 30 years previous.
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:20.880
This man, 30 years later, was still carrying, he was a successful businessman, but he was still carrying um had set up a jail.
00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:42.319
And I said to him, You have a one-man jail in your heart, and it's very expensive to incarcerate a man uh behind prison walls, and yet you have uh you're carrying him, and and I I dare say it would be beneficial if you would liberate him from the this jail.
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.799
So we you know we we coached around that.
00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:51.920
So so number one is to release, release these individuals from the emotional jail that you have.
00:27:52.319 --> 00:27:53.519
Now that's forgiving them.
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.000
That doesn't mean that you have to excuse their behavior.
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.000
Some people could have really gotten hurt, but you do have to go.
00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:09.200
I release the ability to hold them responsible, hold them in my heart, hold them with so much anger, and I release that to God.
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:12.160
Let him have the vengeance if vengeance be needed.
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.319
Okay, there we go.
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:24.160
Um, and so the the second thing after after uh releasing them is to receive, what are we receiving?
00:28:24.319 --> 00:28:25.599
Receive the grace of God.
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:41.759
This uh the this grace is like a heavenly fuel supply, and we can uh operate much differently if we operate on grace rather than emotional um fear, disappointment, brokenness.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:43.920
And so that there is a way.
00:28:44.079 --> 00:29:02.640
I'm not saying this stuff is easy, but there's it's forgiveness, receive the grace of God, and then step three would be eventually to make or to resolve to make a new vow, to change the vow that we made from I'll never trust a man, I'll never trust God, and make a new vow.
00:29:02.960 --> 00:29:09.039
And that is to the vow is I'm determined to follow the model that Jesus applied.
00:29:09.519 --> 00:29:26.720
I'm gonna seek out God's will, and I'm going to make a uh I'm gonna approach this much differently so that I die to self and ex and expect and receive a resurrection of my own of my own um sense of worth.
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:39.519
And I realize, you know, God has a purpose for me, and and I want to seek it, and I'm gonna submit to that and not maintain my own fist-shaking approach toward heaven.
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:40.160
Right.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:44.000
You become a peacemaker, become the father that you didn't have even.
00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:48.880
To become the father you didn't have, or allow God to become the father, yes.
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:54.559
Allow God to become the father you didn't have, but also you as well through that relationship.
00:29:57.519 --> 00:30:02.640
What does it look like when someone starts healing from this?
00:30:03.920 --> 00:30:08.240
Well, it looks like there's there's a peace that passes all understanding.
00:30:08.480 --> 00:30:10.960
This is one of the things the Bible promises.
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.640
Uh, there is, and and this is the challenging thing.
00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:25.359
When this man stops acting like a little boy and starts growing up, um uh there may be challenges in the relationship.
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:34.079
If he's if he is married or has a um a relationship with a woman, there's uh here he comes and starts acting differently.
00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:41.119
He no longer is dependent upon her uh in the old ways, and he starts man he starts to man up.
00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.559
Um she may be surprised by that.
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:47.119
Surprised is a nice word.
00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.720
Surprised by that.
00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:14.160
And uh and so we would invite her to uh to receive the freedom that get comes from this relationship and allow him uh to to we to to cultivate, to keep, to protect all the things we talked about in previous podcasts, what men are supposed to do, what they're what they're designed to do by God Himself.
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:30.640
You know, we we we spoke previously about how Adam had five assignments before he before Eve ever came on the scene, and to to learn how to uh provide, protect, uh to cultivate, uh to be in relationship with God.
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.960
So there were several aspects that were important before that.
00:31:35.200 --> 00:31:53.759
So as he begins to uh seek God for himself, it would be great if that woman were to respond faithfully and allow him to pursue that and participate in that uh in that new um uh state of mind that he has.
00:31:54.240 --> 00:31:54.799
Right.
00:31:55.119 --> 00:32:01.920
So it seems like there are definitely ways that you can come back, release, receive, and resolve.
00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:09.920
So once you've done that though, or let me restate this the process to do that could be identifying your wound.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:21.599
So you have to figure out what actually hurt you, which may take some time to kind of deep dive and figure out, you know, when I I always react like this or I always get mad at this, but I can't really figure out why.
00:32:21.759 --> 00:32:23.039
That's where I start.
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:37.599
Then name the message that you believed, write down the vow that you made, replace it with a holy vow, and then find like a mentor or something like that that can help you through this because like you've talked about it a lot, like spiritual fathers.
00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.480
That's really, really important to growth.
00:32:41.200 --> 00:32:46.160
Yes, find a mature man of God who will counsel, even if you have a son.
00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:54.880
Because you've asked in the past, well, what about uh what about if I have a son who has an absent or abusive father?
00:32:54.960 --> 00:33:07.440
Let's catch this early, because that son may be showing signs uh of what we're talking about here, of hardening his heart toward God or having a hyper-religious approach.
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:11.359
There's any number of of challenges that that that is shown.
00:33:11.440 --> 00:33:22.000
But find an authentic man of God to come into your son's life and uh and and and nurture him and talk to him, help him grow up.
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.839
So that's that that's one important thing to consider.
00:33:26.880 --> 00:33:44.240
You know something though that I'm thinking through something that I'm thinking through here is that sometimes these wounds are so embarrassing or so shameful, and that is why we don't say anything about them and we leave that door shut.
00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:56.799
But that is so such a big part of our testimony, and God is such a redeeming God that sometimes the very wounds that we're hiding are what we're supposed to share to go into our calling.
00:33:57.039 --> 00:34:05.279
It is your whole purpose in life, and that's why the enemy pushes down and makes those wounds hurt so deeply so that you never say anything about them.
00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:10.079
Yes, it might be might be embarrassed, might have shame.
00:34:10.320 --> 00:34:23.360
And so um we've developed a couple of tools in our uh toolkit, uh the spiritual orphans and spiritual sons, and the other one is called Liberating My Uh My Offenders.
00:34:23.679 --> 00:34:30.880
And so uh they are designed to help an individual to externalize just what you said.
00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:35.679
Maybe they won't say it out loud, but at least they'll write it down or type it into a document.
00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:50.880
And so uh that's what gets the process started to identify you know where I've been hurt, how I've been hurt, and to begin the process of making a new vow, uh, as we've said here on this on this discussion.
00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:52.000
So go ahead.
00:34:52.400 --> 00:35:05.599
You know, and for the women listening to this, I think this is so important, just like we're talking about here, like what's the wound, what's the message, what's the vow to the men who have these hardcore personalities, these bad boy personality types.
00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:07.760
What is uh what is your wound?
00:35:08.000 --> 00:35:10.400
What is your wound that makes you pick somebody like that?
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:14.400
What's the message you've told yourself about why you need someone like that?
00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:20.800
What's the vow that you've set in your mind that says, this is this is where I'm gonna be, this is what I have to have?
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:30.800
Like look look at it practically from your side as well, because I think that's a really big deal to self-reflect on why you're seeing different faces but having the same issues.
00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.239
Yes, and it comes down to that word identity.
00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:50.079
There are people, both men and women, who carry an identity of being an orphan, of being unworthy, and and they feel like all I can receive is abuse and uh disfunction, disunity.
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.159
And no, that's not true.
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:56.079
That's not that's not what's written in the book.
00:35:56.239 --> 00:35:59.519
Uh that's not what's in in the Lord's uh approach.
00:35:59.679 --> 00:36:06.000
Um so anything anything less than that, again, they is is just dysfunctional.
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:11.119
We it'd be good if we could admit uh the source of this.
00:36:11.519 --> 00:36:20.480
And again, women sometimes are looking to validate their feminine identity in in just inappropriate manner.
00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:27.760
And so that's that's uh they if again they feel unworthy and I just it breaks my heart.
00:36:27.920 --> 00:36:29.440
It's not it's not true.
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:32.559
God God looks wants something different for them.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:34.000
Absolutely.
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:34.800
Well, thank you.
00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:42.239
Thank you for taking the time to go over this, kind of talk about the orphan spirit, and you know, explain that this this is serious.
00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:48.800
The wound that we get when we are in childhood, they they fester if they're not taken care of properly.
00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:58.480
So being able to go in and identify the wound, name the message, write down the vow you made, and replace it with the correct vowel and seek mentorship, that is the way to go.
00:36:58.719 --> 00:36:59.119
Yes.
00:36:59.360 --> 00:37:04.960
And if this episode resonated with you today, share it with someone who needs to hear that their story isn't finished yet.
00:37:06.559 --> 00:37:07.119
Bye guys.
