B2B CMO - 007 - Amy Cook
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Jon Miller: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Hello and welcome everyone to [00:00:25] today's episode of the B2B CMO Project podcast. I'm Jon [00:00:30] Miller, and as always, I am joined by my co-host Sydney Sloan, our spec. Hello. Hello. [00:00:35] Today our special guest is Amy Cook, who is the co-founder [00:00:40] and the CMO of Full Cast. I'll let her briefly tell you what that is.
Jon Miller: Um, [00:00:45] as someone who's been a co-founder and CMO before that is near and dear to my heart. Uh, [00:00:50] she's also worked at, uh, at as a CMO at companies like Simplest Pathology [00:00:55] Watch and nClouds. Um, but what I think is kind of most interesting about her [00:01:00] background is that she has a PhD in communication. Uh, and that she uses that [00:01:05] PhD to teach, uh, at various number of universities.
Jon Miller: So, [00:01:10] uh, Amy, welcome so much. Thank you for, for joining us today.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much for [00:01:15] having me. I've been really excited about this and I love what you and Sydney are [00:01:20] doing with the B2B CMO organization and it's an honor to be [00:01:25] here.
Jon Miller: We really do feel like there was a, a gap in the market and a need for CMOs to, [00:01:30] especially CMOs at larger companies to network and find support and resources to help [00:01:35] each other. Um, you are one of the B2B CMO project 100 [00:01:40] honorees, so congratulations for that.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much. That was such a surprise, and [00:01:45] I was so thrilled, and it was quite an honor. So thank you
Amy Cook: very much.
Jon Miller: And you're in great [00:01:50] company with 99 other truly stellar CMOs. Um, so let's [00:01:55] kick things off as we usually do, it's just about getting to know you a little bit. Um, [00:02:00] you know, we always like to sort of say like in the superhero movies, like what's your origin story? How did you get [00:02:05] from the beginning to being the co-founder and also [00:02:10] CMO of an enterprise company?
Amy Cook: Well, thank you so much. I, um, it [00:02:15] depends on where we start, is the origin story. I, very early on, I grew [00:02:20] up in an entertainment family and people who are [00:02:25] about 50 and older may know the Osmonds and, um, Donnie and Marie [00:02:30] Osmond. I grew up performing on stage. I did 12 shows a [00:02:35] week. Um, and so it was a lot of fun.
Jon Miller: So wait, sorry. Were you part of the Osmonds?
Amy Cook: [00:02:40] Yeah.
Sydney Sloan: Her middle. Yeah, her maiden name is Osmond.
Jon Miller: that's fascinating.
Sydney Sloan: so [00:02:45] my daughter goes to the University of Utah, she's an intern for us and I told her we were on and I'm like, you know the Osmonds [00:02:50] and she's like in her twenties. And so I got to dis, I was like, I introduced you to Daughter Marie yesterday. [00:02:55] Anyway, so I'm so glad you answered that.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause I had no idea and I was curious.
Amy Cook: Oh yeah,
Sydney Sloan: yes. That is so [00:03:00] cool.
Amy Cook: you. You know when you're a kid and you're like living in this shadow of. [00:03:05] You know, people who seem larger than life sometimes you're like, well, [00:03:10] what's my identity? Right. So I kind of went through that a little early. Mm-hmm. Um, and as I've [00:03:15] gotten older, I've realized like what an incredible opportunity it was for me to understand [00:03:20] brand and PR and events [00:03:25] and entertainment.
Amy Cook: I grew up with it my whole entire life. And then I started, [00:03:30] as I got into marketing, I started realizing that there were some things that. Seemed like [00:03:35] very obvious to me, that weren't obvious to other people. And it was, I realized it was because of the way that [00:03:40] I was raised. Um, it also gave me a couple of really strong, [00:03:45] um, mantras to live by.
Amy Cook: The first one was the show must go on, right? [00:03:50] So there's, when you've got an event, there's nothing you can do. Um, [00:03:55] that was lived very, very literally with my family. I [00:04:00] remember one time my uncle Jay. Got his nose broken by my uncle Alan in a [00:04:05] karate, um, sequence on stage. Jay got off. [00:04:10] Vanish his nose and went right back on five minutes later.
Amy Cook: And so that, that ethic is important [00:04:15] to me. Um, the show must go on was the first one and the second one was, [00:04:20] um, you're only as good as your last show. So that also is very [00:04:25] relevant to B2B marketers right now. And, you know, especially as everything is [00:04:30] changing, it's a, it's a really important, um, thing for me to live by.
Amy Cook: [00:04:35] So, uh, basically. To continue that story, I decided to go to college instead [00:04:40] of continue on in the family business. And I started, um, doing [00:04:45] whatever I could. I had some marketing jobs in at first, and then I stayed home and raised [00:04:50] children for a few years and, um. My husband [00:04:55] got a job with Lehman Brothers one month before they went bankrupt.
Amy Cook: So [00:05:00] all of a sudden we had four little kids at the time, and Jeff was like, oh [00:05:05] no. And we had, we were in California and it was very expensive and you know, kids [00:05:10] gotta eat right? And so I was like, all right, well what? Obviously I've gotta go [00:05:15] back to work. One day Jeff came to me and he was like, Amy. [00:05:20] I've got a $10,000 tax return.
Amy Cook: Let's split it and see who [00:05:25] can make the most money. And I was like, okay, can I start a business [00:05:30] with it? He is like, do whatever you want with it. I'm gonna put mine in real estate. And so [00:05:35] I took that $5,000 seed money and I started just trying to go out and get [00:05:40] jobs. And so I would reach out. I reached out to my friends who own businesses and I was like, can I [00:05:45] write for you?
Amy Cook: Because I had, as John mentioned, a PhD in communication and was an [00:05:50] academic writer earlier in my career. And so I started writing and they were like, oh. Well, you [00:05:55] can write, but can you design, can you do websites? And I was like, oh, [00:06:00] sure, no problem. Of course I couldn't do them. So I'm like, okay, who can I get on my team?
Amy Cook: [00:06:05] So the business developed very organically and after about, you know, five [00:06:10] or six years, it was, it was a legitimate business. And then I started doing some [00:06:15] fractional CMO work. Um, and what the first one was a company [00:06:20] called Simplus, uh, Ryan Westwood. I was his vendor and we were [00:06:25] doing some like ghost writing together for some Forbes articles.
Amy Cook: And he mentioned that [00:06:30] he needed a head of marketing and I was like, oh, please, please choose me [00:06:35] because I needed, even though I was running an agency, I didn't know very much about like how to really. [00:06:40] Do marketing from within a company, how to work with other departments, and there was a [00:06:45] lot I needed to learn.
Amy Cook: And so I was super grateful for that opportunity that he gave me. [00:06:50] So we took that from 2017 series A to 2020, uh, when it was acquired by [00:06:55] Infosys. I stayed on with Infosys for a couple of years to, um, and, [00:07:00] and led the Salesforce marketing practice over there. I decided to do [00:07:05] it again, um, with a company called Pathology Watch.
Amy Cook: Um, it was a digital [00:07:10] health, uh, tech group, and so we took that through acquisition and did it one more time with a [00:07:15] company called, uh, onboard, and that was acquired by Conservis. And then I sold my agency [00:07:20] and, uh, Ryan, my, my old boss vendor [00:07:25] friend, um, called me up one day and said, Hey, I wanna do this again.[00:07:30]
Amy Cook: Let's do something cool again and will you come on and be my co-founder. And I was [00:07:35] like completely honored. I was very happy that after working with me for that many years, he still [00:07:40] wanted to work with me. And so we decided to start full cast. And this [00:07:45] time with Full Cast, we decided to, simplest was a services company, sales, um, [00:07:50] partnership, Salesforce partnership, and um, full cast is all about the technology [00:07:55] for sales.
Amy Cook: Uh, so we do, um, annual planning, technology [00:08:00] forecasting technology and commissions technology, all in one platform.
Jon Miller: And it seems like you've had really good [00:08:05] growth, uh, since you started the company.
Amy Cook: Have. Yes. Thank you for asking. [00:08:10] So, um, in the past 24 months, we've grown 900% and we're [00:08:15] really thrilled about that. And, and we're looking to, uh, right now as everyone [00:08:20] is, we're doing a lot with ai. We're replatforming some of our SaaS product on [00:08:25] ai and, um, just trying to adapt
Jon Miller: Yep. Well, we're definitely gonna get into that. Um, [00:08:30] one last kind of setup question, like what, what do you, what do you study when you get a PhD in [00:08:35] communications? Like, what do you learn.
Amy Cook: That's a great [00:08:40] question. So for me, you can go a lot of direct different directions, but for me, I [00:08:45] chose organizational rhetoric. So my dissertation was on, actually on [00:08:50] a polygamous cult in Utah, and it was a, my [00:08:55] thesis question was. How did the rhetoric of this [00:09:00] organization convince people to act against their own self-interest?[00:09:05]
Amy Cook: And so that was kind of the, the basis of that, um, organizational rhetoric. I took more of a [00:09:10] classical approach. I did a lot of Aristotelian rhetoric and, um. It [00:09:15] combines a lot of, uh, it combines some psychology research and some [00:09:20] organizational behavior, some communications, some English, some philosophy, [00:09:25] and so that was a really fun liberal degree and [00:09:30] lots to talk about.
Sydney Sloan: So it's, um, I, I have two, two [00:09:35] thoughts. First of all, on your, on your, your last story, it was like, okay, your third [00:09:40] mantra then is fake it until you make it. I just had to add that one for you.
Amy Cook: I love that one and I [00:09:45] learned that.
Sydney Sloan: I take that one too.
Amy Cook: I love that one. You're I think we all do that
Amy Cook: Well, we, [00:09:50] we do. And you know what's funny is, uh, I was watching this video from, um, Richard Branson [00:09:55] and he said his number one piece of advice for business owners is always say [00:10:00] yes. Always say yes, and then figure it out. And so,
Amy Cook: yeah,
Sydney Sloan: then figure it out. [00:10:05] That's so good. And then the other thing is just a very interesting analogy. So our last [00:10:10] podcast was Wendy White from Daxko and her original job was a [00:10:15] propaganda strategist for the army. But when you think about the psychological and, [00:10:20] and even Brian Law, we talked about that too.
Sydney Sloan: It's just so interesting. The, the, what you see, the [00:10:25] similarity line and kind of the backgrounds of some of these super successful CMOs is really like [00:10:30] understanding people,
Sydney Sloan: right? Like really getting in. Into the, [00:10:35] yeah.
Amy Cook: Absolutely. Yeah. So like my degree organizational rhetoric fundamentally is how do [00:10:40] organizations persuade? There could not be a better marketing degree, but what's ironic is I never [00:10:45] took a marketing class. I wasn't in the business. I, I didn't come in through the business program. [00:10:50] I came in through the communications program and so I have kind of a, a different [00:10:55] bent on marketing than some others do that come in through business.
Amy Cook: And so [00:11:00] that's a really great
Amy Cook: point, Sydney.
Jon Miller: Actually, and I think it's a really interesting, you know, point about how [00:11:05] marketing is changing even, you know, 'cause I obviously took a very different route into marketing. I [00:11:10] studied physics for my undergraduate degree. And I would say, you know, I think a lot of the [00:11:15] last 20 years of marketing, you know, bringing math [00:11:20] and analytics to the table mattered, right?
Jon Miller: As we sort of tune funnels and [00:11:25] optimize journeys and all that. But that's become, I think, less and less part of what modern marketing is, [00:11:30] and especially as AI is changing things. I think understanding people and behaviors and [00:11:35] psychology matters more than ever. So it's not surprising that these strategic CMOs that we're bringing to [00:11:40] the table have that background.
Amy Cook: That's so interesting you mentioned that. So John, with your physics [00:11:45] background, I'm imagining you leaned a lot more into the analytics piece of it [00:11:50] and, and the math, is
Amy Cook: that right? Yeah, and I think that was useful in the old [00:11:55] playbook and it's not quite as useful today.
Amy Cook: Yeah, it's so [00:12:00] interesting. Matthew Prince actually came out, he's this, uh, CEO of CloudFlare. He came [00:12:05] out with a really interesting article yesterday about why he is letting go [00:12:10] 20% of his team, and he, he categorized people into either [00:12:15] seller builders, sellers, or. [00:12:20] It was like managers helpers, right? Um, and he measurers, that was the word [00:12:25] he used, measurers.
Amy Cook: And he said that most of the people that he cut were measurers [00:12:30] because, and, and he mentioned marketing analytics as one piece of it. He's like, AI should be [00:12:35] able to do all of this. And so when we think about how marketing is changing, [00:12:40] it doesn't mean we're getting rid of our marketing analytics people.
Amy Cook: What it does mean is that we will [00:12:45] probably need to. Augment what they're doing with [00:12:50] ai and we can do that. And so I think what's going to be prized in marketing moving [00:12:55] forward is that storytelling is the creativity piece of it that AI [00:13:00] cannot reproduce.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. And when we were looking, so one of the, the, [00:13:05] the missions behind the B2B CMO project is how do we remain strategic? [00:13:10] How do we keep our seat at the table and influence on the strategy, especially in these [00:13:15] larger companies? And our research found that, you know, there was a lot of [00:13:20] relationship building with the. And how do, how do you make sure that you're a [00:13:25] trusted peer? Um, and talked a lot about, uh, the [00:13:30] ability to build brand and the role AI plays. And so as you think about, and you [00:13:35] work with CMOs all the time, like what do you think makes A-C-M-O-A [00:13:40] strategic CMO.
Amy Cook: I really love this question and I wanna ask you also Sydnee like how [00:13:45] did you come up through marketing? Did you go through the business angle or did you go through a [00:13:50] comms angle or, or how did you do that?
Sydney Sloan: Um, so it's, uh, thank you for [00:13:55] asking Amy. Um, so I, I went to business school and I went to the entrepreneur [00:14:00] program and my plan was to run an events company. So I got a top 10 [00:14:05] plan at USC for invention, which was an event planning company. And I'd been [00:14:10] interning. And so I came through the events angle, um, and.
Sydney Sloan: [00:14:15] That's, I ended up working for Special Events magazine and, and some event planners in la and then I [00:14:20] ended up taking an events job in a tech company, and I think what made the pivot [00:14:25] was my curiosity for the customer. Um, and so I didn't just plan [00:14:30] events. I would go to trade shows and, and when we were doing user conferences, I'd prep everybody.
Sydney Sloan: And so I [00:14:35] really ended up getting to know the customer. And so when we'd have meetings, somebody else at the table would say [00:14:40] something and be like, no, no, I talked to this customer or this customer. And so they put me in product marketing. So my [00:14:45] career was more in the product side, um, [00:14:50] before becoming A-A-C-M-O.
Amy Cook: That's so interesting. And that's like, speaks exactly to [00:14:55] the question you just asked me. How do we be strategic? Right. So my, my like [00:15:00] ta like, my basic answer is you get as close to revenue as you possibly can, right? [00:15:05] And so, like, if that is, you know, asking for [00:15:10] more customer work, right? If that's asking for, [00:15:15] um.
Amy Cook: The, the entire pipeline number to report on in your executive meetings, [00:15:20] if that is taking on partnerships as well and, and alliances and pull tucking [00:15:25] it into the CMO? Um, you know, I think that it really just [00:15:30] depends on each organization and how it's structured. But I would say like for, for [00:15:35] us, we have the opportunity right now as marketers to be the most [00:15:40] flexible.
Amy Cook: The most technical and the most strategic in the C-Suite. In my opinion, [00:15:45] everything is changing and we are so adaptable, generally speaking as [00:15:50] CMOs, because we've had to be. Right. In the last 10 years, B2B CMOs have had to take on [00:15:55] portions of it, portions of analytics. We have to know the math, we have to [00:16:00] know the science.
Amy Cook: We have to know the art. And so for us to be able to like, I [00:16:05] really believe that this is our time as marketers to become like [00:16:10] the most valued and most trusted person on the C-suite. And [00:16:15] that's because we are so flexible. So if we can show that, you know, we also [00:16:20] have, what's ironic to me is even though we're experts at brand, CMOs kind of [00:16:25] have a perception problem in some ways, right?
Amy Cook: A lot of people say, oh, marketers, [00:16:30] oh, marketers, everybody gets rid of marketing first, right? Oh, marketer, they're on kind of on the [00:16:35] outside. They're not really central to revenue. And so I think that our goal [00:16:40] should be. Showcasing ourselves as well as our [00:16:45] brand because we have to, you know, for, for the company to do really well, they need [00:16:50] to know what we can do and they need to be able to, um, access all of the value that we can [00:16:55] offer.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, there are two things that I loved what you said in there. One was, [00:17:00] um, building in the alliance ecosystem, and it's, it's been, uh, [00:17:05] something that I'm a big believer of. And there was a movement at one time that we would call ourselves chief [00:17:10] market officers and not marketing. And, and what I loved about that is, yes, we [00:17:15] can be the expert in the market.
Sydney Sloan: We can, we can. Influence and own the [00:17:20] ecosystem, which is our partner network, to be able to tell a stronger [00:17:25] story through and with our partners and, and weave them in and create unique differentiation [00:17:30] even through that. So I think that is definitely a strategic approach in, you know, how to [00:17:35] take on more responsibility.
Sydney Sloan: And then I a hundred percent agree with. You know, owning [00:17:40] pipeline and whether, you know, sourced influence, marketing, you know, inbound, outbound, whatever. Just, [00:17:45] just report own and report on that and care deeply. That is what you wake up every day [00:17:50] thinking about. And I think I agree with you that will definitely, um, move you into a more [00:17:55] strategic position and partnership with the CRO, but you also touched on like technical [00:18:00] and, um, and so I wanted like poke at the ai, you know, our [00:18:05] ability to be early adopters and showcasing, um, our [00:18:10] technical strength. And so when you think about AI specifically and [00:18:15] um, and the shift in, uh, buyers and this whole [00:18:20] notion of, um, the answer engine, like how, how are you.[00:18:25]
Sydney Sloan: Um, positioning the AI [00:18:30] voice as a proxy for brand and, and influence now that buyers have [00:18:35] completely shifted in the way that they choose to engage with companies.
Amy Cook: [00:18:40] That's a really great question. So, um, some, if you look at the [00:18:45] research, the most recent research, a lot of the most cited, uh, [00:18:50] are LinkedIn, but it's the individual profiles, not the company brands that they're [00:18:55] lifting for this. So that's why I think also that CMOs have, uh, like an [00:19:00] obligation to the companies to become thought leaders themselves because of [00:19:05] that and, and to help the C-Suite do that because, um, you know, that's one of the best ways we can get the.[00:19:10]
Amy Cook: Syringe engine op, you know, to cite our brand is through our individual LinkedIn [00:19:15] profiles. Um, YouTube is another one that is cited so much and [00:19:20] also Reddit. And I have to be honest, I have not done a lot with Reddit and so guess [00:19:25] who's got a new ad campaign going on Reddit right now? Because we have to, [00:19:30] right?
Amy Cook: We have to be in the areas that are, that we're, um, that a EO is [00:19:35] citing. And I will say also, um, we acquired copy.ai [00:19:40] in October. And that was an awesome opportunity for us. It, [00:19:45] even though our core value proposition is planned to pay, um, on the sales [00:19:50] technology side, being able to access copy AI's advanced workflows has been fundamentally [00:19:55] life changing for us and has enabled us to build the AI technology really quickly.
Amy Cook: Uh, we [00:20:00] also just, um, produced an a EO module through [00:20:05] copy ai that allows us to build content specifically for answer [00:20:10] engines. And so. I've been using that in-house as I've been [00:20:15] co-developing it with our developer and then, uh, testing it on our own platform. [00:20:20] And since we started using copy ai, um, we were able to, [00:20:25] um, increase our productivity 10 x while eliminating [00:20:30] about 300 K in salary.
Amy Cook: And, um, we, we've shot up [00:20:35] in our a EO visibility, so being able to understand strategically like [00:20:40] how to do that, how to. How to track for it. It's like the early days of SEO where [00:20:45] you can make change, like you can have changing, like changing algorithms [00:20:50] daily, and you can actually adapt to those algorithms daily and see immediate results.
Amy Cook: So [00:20:55] I think I, that's a long answer for make sure you have the right technology, make sure you've [00:21:00] got the right brand. Make sure that you've got your plan in place, but [00:21:05] the fundamentals are gonna be the same. I mean, a markdown is fundamentally the same [00:21:10] as a, as an outline, right? That you learn how. To do in high school.
Amy Cook: And so being able to [00:21:15] translate that, um, from, you know, our SEO language to our a EO [00:21:20] languages is fundamentally the same. If you look at, like, Google just came out with our, um, a EO [00:21:25] optimization guideline about five days ago. Uh, and I read through it and it [00:21:30] it, it's gonna be such a, a ww for you guys because it's just, it, [00:21:35] it's very much the same.
Amy Cook: It's like, right. Well. Develop a good brand, [00:21:40] make sure you organize your, you know, answers. And then they did things like write [00:21:45] short sentences, do lots of bullet points, you know, so,
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, that doesn't sound very good.
Amy Cook: but there's [00:21:50] nothing,
Amy Cook: there's nothing in it that's like, Yeah.
Amy Cook: there's nothing like, oh my gosh, [00:21:55] you should, you should make sure that your schema markup is, is like, you know, [00:22:00] in this certain place or contextual.
Amy Cook: It's Right.
Sydney Sloan: So I can say [00:22:05] though that, um, so I'll, I'll just do a plug for one of our sponsors, uh, because they built the Webflow [00:22:10] built a really great tool to do that. Um, so if anybody that's listening, uh, [00:22:15] it's uh, webflow.com/solutions/ae, um, [00:22:20] and I recommend that to everybody. Like go have it look at your website and it will give you like step-by-step [00:22:25] instructions in order to how to, to optimize that.
Sydney Sloan: So apparently better you can compare it to the, the [00:22:30] Google one and I think you'll
Sydney Sloan: find can, and, and I, I actually am talking to Dave right now [00:22:35] about syncing up his a EO, um, to product, to [00:22:40] what we're doing on the constant creation side. So it's, it's pretty exciting [00:22:45] times and uh, I totally agree with that. Like having those tools to be able to access [00:22:50] what Google is doing and be able to act, make it actionable is super fundamental.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. [00:22:55] And um, Amy, just since you're also the co-founder, if you, your team hasn't yet, [00:23:00] I would also recommend they look at the knowledge base and maybe copy AI can do that too. And like, [00:23:05] how do you, how do you take the knowledge base and write it in natural language and FAQ [00:23:10] style formats and open that up too.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause that's usually a huge unlock for, for a EO.
Amy Cook: so we actually [00:23:15] built that into the technology to be able to answer that. Great. Great [00:23:20] Awesome. Sorry we went down a
Jon Miller: no, it's good. Yeah. But.
Amy Cook: this is really.
Sydney Sloan: back [00:23:25] up.
Jon Miller: A EO is, is tactical, but also strategic, [00:23:30] but to, you know, bring it back to the strategic at the highest level. You know, I think a topic [00:23:35] that we've touched on slightly, but every CMO cares about is measurement and metrics. Um, [00:23:40] I think, you know, the metrics that we've used in the past have, like [00:23:45] MQs have actually, I think, come to harm us.
Jon Miller: That was one of the things that came out of the research that we did. [00:23:50] And you, you know, uh, you know, with your focus on rev ops, uh, you, you think [00:23:55] a lot about, you know, metrics and what the CRO and the COO need and all that [00:24:00] kind of thing. So what, what, how are you evolving your [00:24:05] marketing metrics? You know, to speak to the rest of the C-Suite, to be more [00:24:10] strategic, to adjust to the new age of ai, et cetera.
Amy Cook: [00:24:15] Well, it's a really great question because, um, we have, you know, when [00:24:20] you're reporting your metrics in your executive meeting, there are a few fundamentals [00:24:25] that they wanna see, right? And. There were, [00:24:30] there was a movement to have. Um, a couple of the executives were like, why are you not reporting on the [00:24:35] mql, Amy?
Amy Cook: And I said, because it's pipeline that matters, not the [00:24:40] mql. I'm happy to do marketing sourced pipeline. I'm happy to do marketing influence [00:24:45] pipeline, but I don't want you, and I said this obviously, like [00:24:50] in a different way, but I don't want people. Telling me [00:24:55] that I am doing funny math because I have to change the [00:25:00] definition of an MQL as I'm adjusting what's coming in and what's coming out, right?
Amy Cook: The [00:25:05] pipeline number is, is steady, the definitions are steady. [00:25:10] It's something everyone can get behind, and so I really lean in a Yep. Pipe. But but you are [00:25:15] still splitting out for marketing source marketing influenced and, and not [00:25:20] 'cause that that itself can be subjective at times and sliding. So how are [00:25:25] you dealing with that complexity?
Amy Cook: right now we lean in the most heavily on the marketing [00:25:30] source pipeline and on the influence pipeline. I just make sure that I know exactly, like [00:25:35] I, I take a very, probably more than average. Um, deep dive [00:25:40] into my metrics every week and make sure I know exactly which deals are comprising my [00:25:45] pipeline. Um, and so if somebody ever questions me on the influence, I can say, well [00:25:50] that's because we did this campaign here, and that's because, you know, so, and we use Salesforce [00:25:55] and, um, we are, we make really good use of the Salesforce campaigns so we [00:26:00] can be able to track the influence.
Amy Cook: Uh, directly in Salesforce. Um, and [00:26:05] so everyone is, because, uh, we have a very communicative team. [00:26:10] Um, they can, I also cut, I also like opened the kimono basically and said. [00:26:15] Guys come in and evaluate all my metrics. I want you to [00:26:20] look at everything, look at every lead, look at every, every, [00:26:25] everything that came in inbound, whether it's in ICP or not.
Amy Cook: I want you to be able to just like [00:26:30] open it up and see what, see what I have. And that really developed a lot of [00:26:35] trust, especially, um, with our, you know, our CRO and other members of the [00:26:40] Go-To-Market team because they can see that, you know, we're all one engine. [00:26:45] And I think that doing that gave gave us the opportunity to really build [00:26:50] our engine together.
Amy Cook: So, um, right now, like Pete Shelton's, our CRO [00:26:55] and I have so much respect for him, he's amazing. He was the head of sales at Domo. [00:27:00] Leader in Adobe and stuff. And so what we've been doing is basically [00:27:05] building this engine together. And he's in there, you know, checking on [00:27:10] my, the way that my, uh, you know, inbound flow is on the website and [00:27:15] suggesting edits and I'm in there asking if his AEs have any event ROI for [00:27:20] me.
Amy Cook: And, and it's really great when you have that trust. And I think that being vulnerable like [00:27:25] that and saying, look at all of my metrics, look at how I've sourced my metrics and feel free to [00:27:30] make suggestions, was really actually what, what
Jon Miller: So pipeline is a key metric, you know, [00:27:35] um, as you say, as close to revenue as possible. What other are, what are your other top [00:27:40] metrics? Um, you know, a pet topic of mine is, you know, how are, you know, [00:27:45] thi things that are harder to measure, like brand AI influence, things like that. What are you doing [00:27:50] around, what are your other metrics?
Amy Cook: So we. We use SEM Rush to help with [00:27:55] the a, the a EO visibility metrics. I know there are lots of great companies, like I [00:28:00] was messing around with Gage the other day. And, um, there are just, uh, [00:28:05] several others that can show that AI visibility on dashboards. Um, so [00:28:10] I think that's an important one. We, we also, um, track our [00:28:15] on-page SEO, make sure that we're optimized for health there.
Amy Cook: Uh, we [00:28:20] track, um. Right now I have not. I, I don't [00:28:25] have anything purchased for like, share of voice, but that's next on my list to [00:28:30] buy. Um, something that, I used to have some technology for that, but, [00:28:35] um, we're, since we're still a startup, we, I gotta develop this little by little [00:28:40] go with the core tech, but I would say share of voice is really important.
Amy Cook: Um, I would [00:28:45] say that, you know, the, I've started focusing on the leads on the SEO [00:28:50] on the, um. On the a EO visibility. [00:28:55] Um, other things that I track are, uh, I actually [00:29:00] have, um, I look at every single lead that came in. I look at ICP fit, I track [00:29:05] percentage of ICP in pipeline. Uh, I track [00:29:10] percentage of ICP in my leads.
Amy Cook: Um, so I use [00:29:15] a lot. I use as many of the sales, uh, metrics as I can, um, and adopt them [00:29:20] as my own.
Sydney Sloan: so we like to end with some fun questions. Um, and [00:29:25] uh, I know John has a curiosity on your grandchildren, so we might, I wanna answer that. [00:29:30] But, um, what do you do for fun outside of work?
Sydney Sloan: Like what's your five to nine?
Amy Cook: [00:29:35] Oh, you know what? I love playing the violin and it [00:29:40] was my, it was my first. Gig. I, I played the [00:29:45] violin in the, in the shows growing up. Um, I've been trained classically [00:29:50] since I was three, and so I played forever. I'm not, I'm not great anymore, [00:29:55] but I love doing that. So I, I do that for fun. Um, I'll do some studio work [00:30:00] sometimes, which is, which is really fun.
Amy Cook: And then, um, honestly, I just like try [00:30:05] to spend as much time with my kids as I can. They're all growing up and several of them [00:30:10] are, are out of school now. Didn't I see. I think you just announced your daughter's [00:30:15] going to BYU, right? Did
Sydney Sloan: I Yeah, you're, she's my fourth, so I've [00:30:20] got, thank you. I've got two outta school. I've got, uh, one that's going to [00:30:25] Peru for a year and a half. I've got one that's graduating, going to BYU, and then I have [00:30:30] one in high school still. So, um, I've pretty, kind of boring. I don't
Sydney Sloan: Yeah,
Sydney Sloan: that [00:30:35] five to nine's a little bit. Well, let's, let's just call that five to nine momming,
Amy Cook: Yeah,
Sydney Sloan: which is, you know, [00:30:40]
Sydney Sloan: your
Amy Cook: that's right.
Amy Cook: My other job is the momming, and I love it. It's [00:30:45] fabulous. And then John, I mentioned this earlier, but I am a, a grandma now [00:30:50] too, and it's so much fun and what everything they say about [00:30:55] being a grandparent is true. It's like, it's so much fun because you don't have to do any of the heavy [00:31:00] lifting.
Amy Cook: You don't have to ever discipline it. And like my grandkid is a baby. I, of course, I wouldn't yet, [00:31:05] but, um, but I, I never will, ever again, and it's the best. All I can do is just [00:31:10] say, oh, I love you. Do you want snacks? Let's not tell your parents, and then that's [00:31:15] it.
Jon Miller: And your and your LinkedIn headline says that your name is is great. Glamma.
Amy Cook: [00:31:20] That's right. I'm trying to train everyone that I'm glam. I'm not grandma. [00:31:25] And so I was telling my daughter the other day that that was my name because she was asking me, she's [00:31:30] like, have you chosen your grandma name yet? And I said, yes, it's glam. And she goes, uh, [00:31:35] no it's not. She's like, it's gonna be whatever the kid tells you it's going to be.
Amy Cook: [00:31:40] So I'm like, It might be hard for them to say,
Sydney Sloan: I am not sure. Yeah.
Jon Miller: with, with your [00:31:45] power of communication and influence, I, I, I think that you're gonna start a trend with that one.
Amy Cook: [00:31:50] Well, thank you, John. I, I appreciate the opportunity to, to be here [00:31:55] today and to be able to chat with you guys. I've never been on a [00:32:00] podcast before with other CMOs where I want to ask you guys a bunch of [00:32:05] questions because I just wanna ask you the questions and see what I should do differently. Like, it's [00:32:10] really, really awesome what you've done here, um, with the podcast and with the organization.
Jon Miller: you.
Sydney Sloan: [00:32:15] Well, thank you for that. And we also then end on gratitude. So look at, you're [00:32:20] leaning into it already and allowing you to give shout outs to a couple [00:32:25] people that, um, you know, helped you get to where you are. We know we don't do this alone, so who would [00:32:30] you like to give
Amy Cook: Oh, well thank you so much. There are so many. It's, uh, I'm, I may be [00:32:35] blanking. Uh, I will be blanking on some of them, but a few people that [00:32:40] come to mind immediately are the team that have stayed with me for over 10 years [00:32:45] to, like, they were part of the agency and then they've come with me. And, [00:32:50] um, two in particular, three in particular.
Amy Cook: I'll shout out. Um, the first one is Megan [00:32:55] Ross. The second is Janelle Wright. Megan is my marketing ops person. Janelle is my [00:33:00] content person, and, uh, Eric Ramirez is our web developer. [00:33:05] Emily Wal does operations. I'm super grateful. I've worked with all of those guys for over 10 years, which is [00:33:10] amazing. And then, um, I would say I'm really grateful to my, [00:33:15] um, co-founder Ryan, for giving me a shot and giving me the opportunity all [00:33:20] those years ago to do my first CMO gig.
Amy Cook: Like what an awesome opportunity it was for [00:33:25] me to be able to, to do that. So, um, he also made my life really flexible. [00:33:30] And, uh, he said, you know, when I was ready to take the job. [00:33:35] Because I have so many children, I was like, you know what? I will work my guts out for you. I will do [00:33:40] anything you ask. I will like do more than full-time.
Amy Cook: I just need the hours from three to [00:33:45] seven off every day. And he was like, no problem. Just get your job done and who cares? And [00:33:50] so that was, that was really impactful for me. I'm super grateful for that. [00:33:55] And I'm grateful for all of the other CMOs who have taught me so much [00:34:00] over the years. And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm very excited about this.
Amy Cook: [00:34:05] What you're doing with the. Project and for the opportunity to learn. I think things are changing [00:34:10] so quickly. We all need to kind of link arms and figure it out together. [00:34:15] And I'm, uh, I'm really, uh, thankful to be part of that community.
Sydney Sloan: [00:34:20] Well, Amy, the show must go on Cook. Um, uh, thank you [00:34:25] so much for being here. The highlights that I took away from our conversation is really as a [00:34:30] strategic. CMO uh, owning pipeline is an important part of [00:34:35] how you remain strategic, the way that you talked about being vulnerable to build [00:34:40] relationships and opening up the kimono and welcoming feedback so you're in partnership [00:34:45] together with your, uh, with your peers, and then you're clearly metrics driven.
Sydney Sloan: [00:34:50] Um, and these are a lot of the things that we see in what Strategic CMOs do, and you [00:34:55] amplify it very well. Um, I just wanna say to everybody who's listening, I hope you [00:35:00] learned something today from us. If you like what you learned, please follow the b2b CMO [00:35:05] project.com and listen to our podcasts, our primary research.
Sydney Sloan: [00:35:10] If you are a, at scale CMO, you can join our community. And again, Amy, [00:35:15] thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening [00:35:20] to the B2B CMO podcast. Head on over to b2b CMO project.com [00:35:25] for more episodes, plus the latest research and framework CMOs need, [00:35:30] not just to survive but actually thrive as AI in the new playbook reshape how we [00:35:35] Go-To-Market. And if this episode sparks something for you, please follow the show.
Leave a [00:35:40] rating and share it with a marketing leader who could use a little inspiration. Special thanks to our [00:35:45] wonderful partners. One Mind, two x check Demandbase [00:35:50] G two Gold Cast LinkedIn, fave, sendo, and [00:35:55] Webflow for making this podcast possible. Until next time, be safe out [00:36:00] there.
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[00:00:00]
Jon Miller: [00:00:05] [00:00:10] [00:00:15] [00:00:20] Hello and welcome everyone to [00:00:25] today's episode of the B2B CMO Project podcast. I'm Jon [00:00:30] Miller, and as always, I am joined by my co-host Sydney Sloan, our spec. Hello. Hello. [00:00:35] Today our special guest is Amy Cook, who is the co-founder [00:00:40] and the CMO of Full Cast. I'll let her briefly tell you what that is.
Jon Miller: Um, [00:00:45] as someone who's been a co-founder and CMO before that is near and dear to my heart. Uh, [00:00:50] she's also worked at, uh, at as a CMO at companies like Simplest Pathology [00:00:55] Watch and nClouds. Um, but what I think is kind of most interesting about her [00:01:00] background is that she has a PhD in communication. Uh, and that she uses that [00:01:05] PhD to teach, uh, at various number of universities.
Jon Miller: So, [00:01:10] uh, Amy, welcome so much. Thank you for, for joining us today.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much for [00:01:15] having me. I've been really excited about this and I love what you and Sydney are [00:01:20] doing with the B2B CMO organization and it's an honor to be [00:01:25] here.
Jon Miller: We really do feel like there was a, a gap in the market and a need for CMOs to, [00:01:30] especially CMOs at larger companies to network and find support and resources to help [00:01:35] each other. Um, you are one of the B2B CMO project 100 [00:01:40] honorees, so congratulations for that.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much. That was such a surprise, and [00:01:45] I was so thrilled, and it was quite an honor. So thank you
Amy Cook: very much.
Jon Miller: And you're in great [00:01:50] company with 99 other truly stellar CMOs. Um, so let's [00:01:55] kick things off as we usually do, it's just about getting to know you a little bit. Um, [00:02:00] you know, we always like to sort of say like in the superhero movies, like what's your origin story? How did you get [00:02:05] from the beginning to being the co-founder and also [00:02:10] CMO of an enterprise company?
Amy Cook: Well, thank you so much. I, um, it [00:02:15] depends on where we start, is the origin story. I, very early on, I grew [00:02:20] up in an entertainment family and people who are [00:02:25] about 50 and older may know the Osmonds and, um, Donnie and Marie [00:02:30] Osmond. I grew up performing on stage. I did 12 shows a [00:02:35] week. Um, and so it was a lot of fun.
Jon Miller: So wait, sorry. Were you part of the Osmonds?
Amy Cook: [00:02:40] Yeah.
Sydney Sloan: Her middle. Yeah, her maiden name is Osmond.
Jon Miller: that's fascinating.
Sydney Sloan: so [00:02:45] my daughter goes to the University of Utah, she's an intern for us and I told her we were on and I'm like, you know the Osmonds [00:02:50] and she's like in her twenties. And so I got to dis, I was like, I introduced you to Daughter Marie yesterday. [00:02:55] Anyway, so I'm so glad you answered that.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause I had no idea and I was curious.
Amy Cook: Oh yeah,
Sydney Sloan: yes. That is so [00:03:00] cool.
Amy Cook: you. You know when you're a kid and you're like living in this shadow of. [00:03:05] You know, people who seem larger than life sometimes you're like, well, [00:03:10] what's my identity? Right. So I kind of went through that a little early. Mm-hmm. Um, and as I've [00:03:15] gotten older, I've realized like what an incredible opportunity it was for me to understand [00:03:20] brand and PR and events [00:03:25] and entertainment.
Amy Cook: I grew up with it my whole entire life. And then I started, [00:03:30] as I got into marketing, I started realizing that there were some things that. Seemed like [00:03:35] very obvious to me, that weren't obvious to other people. And it was, I realized it was because of the way that [00:03:40] I was raised. Um, it also gave me a couple of really strong, [00:03:45] um, mantras to live by.
Amy Cook: The first one was the show must go on, right? [00:03:50] So there's, when you've got an event, there's nothing you can do. Um, [00:03:55] that was lived very, very literally with my family. I [00:04:00] remember one time my uncle Jay. Got his nose broken by my uncle Alan in a [00:04:05] karate, um, sequence on stage. Jay got off. [00:04:10] Vanish his nose and went right back on five minutes later.
Amy Cook: And so that, that ethic is important [00:04:15] to me. Um, the show must go on was the first one and the second one was, [00:04:20] um, you're only as good as your last show. So that also is very [00:04:25] relevant to B2B marketers right now. And, you know, especially as everything is [00:04:30] changing, it's a, it's a really important, um, thing for me to live by.
Amy Cook: [00:04:35] So, uh, basically. To continue that story, I decided to go to college instead [00:04:40] of continue on in the family business. And I started, um, doing [00:04:45] whatever I could. I had some marketing jobs in at first, and then I stayed home and raised [00:04:50] children for a few years and, um. My husband [00:04:55] got a job with Lehman Brothers one month before they went bankrupt.
Amy Cook: So [00:05:00] all of a sudden we had four little kids at the time, and Jeff was like, oh [00:05:05] no. And we had, we were in California and it was very expensive and you know, kids [00:05:10] gotta eat right? And so I was like, all right, well what? Obviously I've gotta go [00:05:15] back to work. One day Jeff came to me and he was like, Amy. [00:05:20] I've got a $10,000 tax return.
Amy Cook: Let's split it and see who [00:05:25] can make the most money. And I was like, okay, can I start a business [00:05:30] with it? He is like, do whatever you want with it. I'm gonna put mine in real estate. And so [00:05:35] I took that $5,000 seed money and I started just trying to go out and get [00:05:40] jobs. And so I would reach out. I reached out to my friends who own businesses and I was like, can I [00:05:45] write for you?
Amy Cook: Because I had, as John mentioned, a PhD in communication and was an [00:05:50] academic writer earlier in my career. And so I started writing and they were like, oh. Well, you [00:05:55] can write, but can you design, can you do websites? And I was like, oh, [00:06:00] sure, no problem. Of course I couldn't do them. So I'm like, okay, who can I get on my team?
Amy Cook: [00:06:05] So the business developed very organically and after about, you know, five [00:06:10] or six years, it was, it was a legitimate business. And then I started doing some [00:06:15] fractional CMO work. Um, and what the first one was a company [00:06:20] called Simplus, uh, Ryan Westwood. I was his vendor and we were [00:06:25] doing some like ghost writing together for some Forbes articles.
Amy Cook: And he mentioned that [00:06:30] he needed a head of marketing and I was like, oh, please, please choose me [00:06:35] because I needed, even though I was running an agency, I didn't know very much about like how to really. [00:06:40] Do marketing from within a company, how to work with other departments, and there was a [00:06:45] lot I needed to learn.
Amy Cook: And so I was super grateful for that opportunity that he gave me. [00:06:50] So we took that from 2017 series A to 2020, uh, when it was acquired by [00:06:55] Infosys. I stayed on with Infosys for a couple of years to, um, and, [00:07:00] and led the Salesforce marketing practice over there. I decided to do [00:07:05] it again, um, with a company called Pathology Watch.
Amy Cook: Um, it was a digital [00:07:10] health, uh, tech group, and so we took that through acquisition and did it one more time with a [00:07:15] company called, uh, onboard, and that was acquired by Conservis. And then I sold my agency [00:07:20] and, uh, Ryan, my, my old boss vendor [00:07:25] friend, um, called me up one day and said, Hey, I wanna do this again.[00:07:30]
Amy Cook: Let's do something cool again and will you come on and be my co-founder. And I was [00:07:35] like completely honored. I was very happy that after working with me for that many years, he still [00:07:40] wanted to work with me. And so we decided to start full cast. And this [00:07:45] time with Full Cast, we decided to, simplest was a services company, sales, um, [00:07:50] partnership, Salesforce partnership, and um, full cast is all about the technology [00:07:55] for sales.
Amy Cook: Uh, so we do, um, annual planning, technology [00:08:00] forecasting technology and commissions technology, all in one platform.
Jon Miller: And it seems like you've had really good [00:08:05] growth, uh, since you started the company.
Amy Cook: Have. Yes. Thank you for asking. [00:08:10] So, um, in the past 24 months, we've grown 900% and we're [00:08:15] really thrilled about that. And, and we're looking to, uh, right now as everyone [00:08:20] is, we're doing a lot with ai. We're replatforming some of our SaaS product on [00:08:25] ai and, um, just trying to adapt
Jon Miller: Yep. Well, we're definitely gonna get into that. Um, [00:08:30] one last kind of setup question, like what, what do you, what do you study when you get a PhD in [00:08:35] communications? Like, what do you learn.
Amy Cook: That's a great [00:08:40] question. So for me, you can go a lot of direct different directions, but for me, I [00:08:45] chose organizational rhetoric. So my dissertation was on, actually on [00:08:50] a polygamous cult in Utah, and it was a, my [00:08:55] thesis question was. How did the rhetoric of this [00:09:00] organization convince people to act against their own self-interest?[00:09:05]
Amy Cook: And so that was kind of the, the basis of that, um, organizational rhetoric. I took more of a [00:09:10] classical approach. I did a lot of Aristotelian rhetoric and, um. It [00:09:15] combines a lot of, uh, it combines some psychology research and some [00:09:20] organizational behavior, some communications, some English, some philosophy, [00:09:25] and so that was a really fun liberal degree and [00:09:30] lots to talk about.
Sydney Sloan: So it's, um, I, I have two, two [00:09:35] thoughts. First of all, on your, on your, your last story, it was like, okay, your third [00:09:40] mantra then is fake it until you make it. I just had to add that one for you.
Amy Cook: I love that one and I [00:09:45] learned that.
Sydney Sloan: I take that one too.
Amy Cook: I love that one. You're I think we all do that
Amy Cook: Well, we, [00:09:50] we do. And you know what's funny is, uh, I was watching this video from, um, Richard Branson [00:09:55] and he said his number one piece of advice for business owners is always say [00:10:00] yes. Always say yes, and then figure it out. And so,
Amy Cook: yeah,
Sydney Sloan: then figure it out. [00:10:05] That's so good. And then the other thing is just a very interesting analogy. So our last [00:10:10] podcast was Wendy White from Daxko and her original job was a [00:10:15] propaganda strategist for the army. But when you think about the psychological and, [00:10:20] and even Brian Law, we talked about that too.
Sydney Sloan: It's just so interesting. The, the, what you see, the [00:10:25] similarity line and kind of the backgrounds of some of these super successful CMOs is really like [00:10:30] understanding people,
Sydney Sloan: right? Like really getting in. Into the, [00:10:35] yeah.
Amy Cook: Absolutely. Yeah. So like my degree organizational rhetoric fundamentally is how do [00:10:40] organizations persuade? There could not be a better marketing degree, but what's ironic is I never [00:10:45] took a marketing class. I wasn't in the business. I, I didn't come in through the business program. [00:10:50] I came in through the communications program and so I have kind of a, a different [00:10:55] bent on marketing than some others do that come in through business.
Amy Cook: And so [00:11:00] that's a really great
Amy Cook: point, Sydney.
Jon Miller: Actually, and I think it's a really interesting, you know, point about how [00:11:05] marketing is changing even, you know, 'cause I obviously took a very different route into marketing. I [00:11:10] studied physics for my undergraduate degree. And I would say, you know, I think a lot of the [00:11:15] last 20 years of marketing, you know, bringing math [00:11:20] and analytics to the table mattered, right?
Jon Miller: As we sort of tune funnels and [00:11:25] optimize journeys and all that. But that's become, I think, less and less part of what modern marketing is, [00:11:30] and especially as AI is changing things. I think understanding people and behaviors and [00:11:35] psychology matters more than ever. So it's not surprising that these strategic CMOs that we're bringing to [00:11:40] the table have that background.
Amy Cook: That's so interesting you mentioned that. So John, with your physics [00:11:45] background, I'm imagining you leaned a lot more into the analytics piece of it [00:11:50] and, and the math, is
Amy Cook: that right? Yeah, and I think that was useful in the old [00:11:55] playbook and it's not quite as useful today.
Amy Cook: Yeah, it's so [00:12:00] interesting. Matthew Prince actually came out, he's this, uh, CEO of CloudFlare. He came [00:12:05] out with a really interesting article yesterday about why he is letting go [00:12:10] 20% of his team, and he, he categorized people into either [00:12:15] seller builders, sellers, or. [00:12:20] It was like managers helpers, right? Um, and he measurers, that was the word [00:12:25] he used, measurers.
Amy Cook: And he said that most of the people that he cut were measurers [00:12:30] because, and, and he mentioned marketing analytics as one piece of it. He's like, AI should be [00:12:35] able to do all of this. And so when we think about how marketing is changing, [00:12:40] it doesn't mean we're getting rid of our marketing analytics people.
Amy Cook: What it does mean is that we will [00:12:45] probably need to. Augment what they're doing with [00:12:50] ai and we can do that. And so I think what's going to be prized in marketing moving [00:12:55] forward is that storytelling is the creativity piece of it that AI [00:13:00] cannot reproduce.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. And when we were looking, so one of the, the, [00:13:05] the missions behind the B2B CMO project is how do we remain strategic? [00:13:10] How do we keep our seat at the table and influence on the strategy, especially in these [00:13:15] larger companies? And our research found that, you know, there was a lot of [00:13:20] relationship building with the. And how do, how do you make sure that you're a [00:13:25] trusted peer? Um, and talked a lot about, uh, the [00:13:30] ability to build brand and the role AI plays. And so as you think about, and you [00:13:35] work with CMOs all the time, like what do you think makes A-C-M-O-A [00:13:40] strategic CMO.
Amy Cook: I really love this question and I wanna ask you also Sydnee like how [00:13:45] did you come up through marketing? Did you go through the business angle or did you go through a [00:13:50] comms angle or, or how did you do that?
Sydney Sloan: Um, so it's, uh, thank you for [00:13:55] asking Amy. Um, so I, I went to business school and I went to the entrepreneur [00:14:00] program and my plan was to run an events company. So I got a top 10 [00:14:05] plan at USC for invention, which was an event planning company. And I'd been [00:14:10] interning. And so I came through the events angle, um, and.
Sydney Sloan: [00:14:15] That's, I ended up working for Special Events magazine and, and some event planners in la and then I [00:14:20] ended up taking an events job in a tech company, and I think what made the pivot [00:14:25] was my curiosity for the customer. Um, and so I didn't just plan [00:14:30] events. I would go to trade shows and, and when we were doing user conferences, I'd prep everybody.
Sydney Sloan: And so I [00:14:35] really ended up getting to know the customer. And so when we'd have meetings, somebody else at the table would say [00:14:40] something and be like, no, no, I talked to this customer or this customer. And so they put me in product marketing. So my [00:14:45] career was more in the product side, um, [00:14:50] before becoming A-A-C-M-O.
Amy Cook: That's so interesting. And that's like, speaks exactly to [00:14:55] the question you just asked me. How do we be strategic? Right. So my, my like [00:15:00] ta like, my basic answer is you get as close to revenue as you possibly can, right? [00:15:05] And so, like, if that is, you know, asking for [00:15:10] more customer work, right? If that's asking for, [00:15:15] um.
Amy Cook: The, the entire pipeline number to report on in your executive meetings, [00:15:20] if that is taking on partnerships as well and, and alliances and pull tucking [00:15:25] it into the CMO? Um, you know, I think that it really just [00:15:30] depends on each organization and how it's structured. But I would say like for, for [00:15:35] us, we have the opportunity right now as marketers to be the most [00:15:40] flexible.
Amy Cook: The most technical and the most strategic in the C-Suite. In my opinion, [00:15:45] everything is changing and we are so adaptable, generally speaking as [00:15:50] CMOs, because we've had to be. Right. In the last 10 years, B2B CMOs have had to take on [00:15:55] portions of it, portions of analytics. We have to know the math, we have to [00:16:00] know the science.
Amy Cook: We have to know the art. And so for us to be able to like, I [00:16:05] really believe that this is our time as marketers to become like [00:16:10] the most valued and most trusted person on the C-suite. And [00:16:15] that's because we are so flexible. So if we can show that, you know, we also [00:16:20] have, what's ironic to me is even though we're experts at brand, CMOs kind of [00:16:25] have a perception problem in some ways, right?
Amy Cook: A lot of people say, oh, marketers, [00:16:30] oh, marketers, everybody gets rid of marketing first, right? Oh, marketer, they're on kind of on the [00:16:35] outside. They're not really central to revenue. And so I think that our goal [00:16:40] should be. Showcasing ourselves as well as our [00:16:45] brand because we have to, you know, for, for the company to do really well, they need [00:16:50] to know what we can do and they need to be able to, um, access all of the value that we can [00:16:55] offer.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, there are two things that I loved what you said in there. One was, [00:17:00] um, building in the alliance ecosystem, and it's, it's been, uh, [00:17:05] something that I'm a big believer of. And there was a movement at one time that we would call ourselves chief [00:17:10] market officers and not marketing. And, and what I loved about that is, yes, we [00:17:15] can be the expert in the market.
Sydney Sloan: We can, we can. Influence and own the [00:17:20] ecosystem, which is our partner network, to be able to tell a stronger [00:17:25] story through and with our partners and, and weave them in and create unique differentiation [00:17:30] even through that. So I think that is definitely a strategic approach in, you know, how to [00:17:35] take on more responsibility.
Sydney Sloan: And then I a hundred percent agree with. You know, owning [00:17:40] pipeline and whether, you know, sourced influence, marketing, you know, inbound, outbound, whatever. Just, [00:17:45] just report own and report on that and care deeply. That is what you wake up every day [00:17:50] thinking about. And I think I agree with you that will definitely, um, move you into a more [00:17:55] strategic position and partnership with the CRO, but you also touched on like technical [00:18:00] and, um, and so I wanted like poke at the ai, you know, our [00:18:05] ability to be early adopters and showcasing, um, our [00:18:10] technical strength. And so when you think about AI specifically and [00:18:15] um, and the shift in, uh, buyers and this whole [00:18:20] notion of, um, the answer engine, like how, how are you.[00:18:25]
Sydney Sloan: Um, positioning the AI [00:18:30] voice as a proxy for brand and, and influence now that buyers have [00:18:35] completely shifted in the way that they choose to engage with companies.
Amy Cook: [00:18:40] That's a really great question. So, um, some, if you look at the [00:18:45] research, the most recent research, a lot of the most cited, uh, [00:18:50] are LinkedIn, but it's the individual profiles, not the company brands that they're [00:18:55] lifting for this. So that's why I think also that CMOs have, uh, like an [00:19:00] obligation to the companies to become thought leaders themselves because of [00:19:05] that and, and to help the C-Suite do that because, um, you know, that's one of the best ways we can get the.[00:19:10]
Amy Cook: Syringe engine op, you know, to cite our brand is through our individual LinkedIn [00:19:15] profiles. Um, YouTube is another one that is cited so much and [00:19:20] also Reddit. And I have to be honest, I have not done a lot with Reddit and so guess [00:19:25] who's got a new ad campaign going on Reddit right now? Because we have to, [00:19:30] right?
Amy Cook: We have to be in the areas that are, that we're, um, that a EO is [00:19:35] citing. And I will say also, um, we acquired copy.ai [00:19:40] in October. And that was an awesome opportunity for us. It, [00:19:45] even though our core value proposition is planned to pay, um, on the sales [00:19:50] technology side, being able to access copy AI's advanced workflows has been fundamentally [00:19:55] life changing for us and has enabled us to build the AI technology really quickly.
Amy Cook: Uh, we [00:20:00] also just, um, produced an a EO module through [00:20:05] copy ai that allows us to build content specifically for answer [00:20:10] engines. And so. I've been using that in-house as I've been [00:20:15] co-developing it with our developer and then, uh, testing it on our own platform. [00:20:20] And since we started using copy ai, um, we were able to, [00:20:25] um, increase our productivity 10 x while eliminating [00:20:30] about 300 K in salary.
Amy Cook: And, um, we, we've shot up [00:20:35] in our a EO visibility, so being able to understand strategically like [00:20:40] how to do that, how to. How to track for it. It's like the early days of SEO where [00:20:45] you can make change, like you can have changing, like changing algorithms [00:20:50] daily, and you can actually adapt to those algorithms daily and see immediate results.
Amy Cook: So [00:20:55] I think I, that's a long answer for make sure you have the right technology, make sure you've [00:21:00] got the right brand. Make sure that you've got your plan in place, but [00:21:05] the fundamentals are gonna be the same. I mean, a markdown is fundamentally the same [00:21:10] as a, as an outline, right? That you learn how. To do in high school.
Amy Cook: And so being able to [00:21:15] translate that, um, from, you know, our SEO language to our a EO [00:21:20] languages is fundamentally the same. If you look at, like, Google just came out with our, um, a EO [00:21:25] optimization guideline about five days ago. Uh, and I read through it and it [00:21:30] it, it's gonna be such a, a ww for you guys because it's just, it, [00:21:35] it's very much the same.
Amy Cook: It's like, right. Well. Develop a good brand, [00:21:40] make sure you organize your, you know, answers. And then they did things like write [00:21:45] short sentences, do lots of bullet points, you know, so,
Sydney Sloan: Yeah, that doesn't sound very good.
Amy Cook: but there's [00:21:50] nothing,
Amy Cook: there's nothing in it that's like, Yeah.
Amy Cook: there's nothing like, oh my gosh, [00:21:55] you should, you should make sure that your schema markup is, is like, you know, [00:22:00] in this certain place or contextual.
Amy Cook: It's Right.
Sydney Sloan: So I can say [00:22:05] though that, um, so I'll, I'll just do a plug for one of our sponsors, uh, because they built the Webflow [00:22:10] built a really great tool to do that. Um, so if anybody that's listening, uh, [00:22:15] it's uh, webflow.com/solutions/ae, um, [00:22:20] and I recommend that to everybody. Like go have it look at your website and it will give you like step-by-step [00:22:25] instructions in order to how to, to optimize that.
Sydney Sloan: So apparently better you can compare it to the, the [00:22:30] Google one and I think you'll
Sydney Sloan: find can, and, and I, I actually am talking to Dave right now [00:22:35] about syncing up his a EO, um, to product, to [00:22:40] what we're doing on the constant creation side. So it's, it's pretty exciting [00:22:45] times and uh, I totally agree with that. Like having those tools to be able to access [00:22:50] what Google is doing and be able to act, make it actionable is super fundamental.
Sydney Sloan: Yeah. [00:22:55] And um, Amy, just since you're also the co-founder, if you, your team hasn't yet, [00:23:00] I would also recommend they look at the knowledge base and maybe copy AI can do that too. And like, [00:23:05] how do you, how do you take the knowledge base and write it in natural language and FAQ [00:23:10] style formats and open that up too.
Sydney Sloan: 'cause that's usually a huge unlock for, for a EO.
Amy Cook: so we actually [00:23:15] built that into the technology to be able to answer that. Great. Great [00:23:20] Awesome. Sorry we went down a
Jon Miller: no, it's good. Yeah. But.
Amy Cook: this is really.
Sydney Sloan: back [00:23:25] up.
Jon Miller: A EO is, is tactical, but also strategic, [00:23:30] but to, you know, bring it back to the strategic at the highest level. You know, I think a topic [00:23:35] that we've touched on slightly, but every CMO cares about is measurement and metrics. Um, [00:23:40] I think, you know, the metrics that we've used in the past have, like [00:23:45] MQs have actually, I think, come to harm us.
Jon Miller: That was one of the things that came out of the research that we did. [00:23:50] And you, you know, uh, you know, with your focus on rev ops, uh, you, you think [00:23:55] a lot about, you know, metrics and what the CRO and the COO need and all that [00:24:00] kind of thing. So what, what, how are you evolving your [00:24:05] marketing metrics? You know, to speak to the rest of the C-Suite, to be more [00:24:10] strategic, to adjust to the new age of ai, et cetera.
Amy Cook: [00:24:15] Well, it's a really great question because, um, we have, you know, when [00:24:20] you're reporting your metrics in your executive meeting, there are a few fundamentals [00:24:25] that they wanna see, right? And. There were, [00:24:30] there was a movement to have. Um, a couple of the executives were like, why are you not reporting on the [00:24:35] mql, Amy?
Amy Cook: And I said, because it's pipeline that matters, not the [00:24:40] mql. I'm happy to do marketing sourced pipeline. I'm happy to do marketing influence [00:24:45] pipeline, but I don't want you, and I said this obviously, like [00:24:50] in a different way, but I don't want people. Telling me [00:24:55] that I am doing funny math because I have to change the [00:25:00] definition of an MQL as I'm adjusting what's coming in and what's coming out, right?
Amy Cook: The [00:25:05] pipeline number is, is steady, the definitions are steady. [00:25:10] It's something everyone can get behind, and so I really lean in a Yep. Pipe. But but you are [00:25:15] still splitting out for marketing source marketing influenced and, and not [00:25:20] 'cause that that itself can be subjective at times and sliding. So how are [00:25:25] you dealing with that complexity?
Amy Cook: right now we lean in the most heavily on the marketing [00:25:30] source pipeline and on the influence pipeline. I just make sure that I know exactly, like [00:25:35] I, I take a very, probably more than average. Um, deep dive [00:25:40] into my metrics every week and make sure I know exactly which deals are comprising my [00:25:45] pipeline. Um, and so if somebody ever questions me on the influence, I can say, well [00:25:50] that's because we did this campaign here, and that's because, you know, so, and we use Salesforce [00:25:55] and, um, we are, we make really good use of the Salesforce campaigns so we [00:26:00] can be able to track the influence.
Amy Cook: Uh, directly in Salesforce. Um, and [00:26:05] so everyone is, because, uh, we have a very communicative team. [00:26:10] Um, they can, I also cut, I also like opened the kimono basically and said. [00:26:15] Guys come in and evaluate all my metrics. I want you to [00:26:20] look at everything, look at every lead, look at every, every, [00:26:25] everything that came in inbound, whether it's in ICP or not.
Amy Cook: I want you to be able to just like [00:26:30] open it up and see what, see what I have. And that really developed a lot of [00:26:35] trust, especially, um, with our, you know, our CRO and other members of the [00:26:40] Go-To-Market team because they can see that, you know, we're all one engine. [00:26:45] And I think that doing that gave gave us the opportunity to really build [00:26:50] our engine together.
Amy Cook: So, um, right now, like Pete Shelton's, our CRO [00:26:55] and I have so much respect for him, he's amazing. He was the head of sales at Domo. [00:27:00] Leader in Adobe and stuff. And so what we've been doing is basically [00:27:05] building this engine together. And he's in there, you know, checking on [00:27:10] my, the way that my, uh, you know, inbound flow is on the website and [00:27:15] suggesting edits and I'm in there asking if his AEs have any event ROI for [00:27:20] me.
Amy Cook: And, and it's really great when you have that trust. And I think that being vulnerable like [00:27:25] that and saying, look at all of my metrics, look at how I've sourced my metrics and feel free to [00:27:30] make suggestions, was really actually what, what
Jon Miller: So pipeline is a key metric, you know, [00:27:35] um, as you say, as close to revenue as possible. What other are, what are your other top [00:27:40] metrics? Um, you know, a pet topic of mine is, you know, how are, you know, [00:27:45] thi things that are harder to measure, like brand AI influence, things like that. What are you doing [00:27:50] around, what are your other metrics?
Amy Cook: So we. We use SEM Rush to help with [00:27:55] the a, the a EO visibility metrics. I know there are lots of great companies, like I [00:28:00] was messing around with Gage the other day. And, um, there are just, uh, [00:28:05] several others that can show that AI visibility on dashboards. Um, so [00:28:10] I think that's an important one. We, we also, um, track our [00:28:15] on-page SEO, make sure that we're optimized for health there.
Amy Cook: Uh, we [00:28:20] track, um. Right now I have not. I, I don't [00:28:25] have anything purchased for like, share of voice, but that's next on my list to [00:28:30] buy. Um, something that, I used to have some technology for that, but, [00:28:35] um, we're, since we're still a startup, we, I gotta develop this little by little [00:28:40] go with the core tech, but I would say share of voice is really important.
Amy Cook: Um, I would [00:28:45] say that, you know, the, I've started focusing on the leads on the SEO [00:28:50] on the, um. On the a EO visibility. [00:28:55] Um, other things that I track are, uh, I actually [00:29:00] have, um, I look at every single lead that came in. I look at ICP fit, I track [00:29:05] percentage of ICP in pipeline. Uh, I track [00:29:10] percentage of ICP in my leads.
Amy Cook: Um, so I use [00:29:15] a lot. I use as many of the sales, uh, metrics as I can, um, and adopt them [00:29:20] as my own.
Sydney Sloan: so we like to end with some fun questions. Um, and [00:29:25] uh, I know John has a curiosity on your grandchildren, so we might, I wanna answer that. [00:29:30] But, um, what do you do for fun outside of work?
Sydney Sloan: Like what's your five to nine?
Amy Cook: [00:29:35] Oh, you know what? I love playing the violin and it [00:29:40] was my, it was my first. Gig. I, I played the [00:29:45] violin in the, in the shows growing up. Um, I've been trained classically [00:29:50] since I was three, and so I played forever. I'm not, I'm not great anymore, [00:29:55] but I love doing that. So I, I do that for fun. Um, I'll do some studio work [00:30:00] sometimes, which is, which is really fun.
Amy Cook: And then, um, honestly, I just like try [00:30:05] to spend as much time with my kids as I can. They're all growing up and several of them [00:30:10] are, are out of school now. Didn't I see. I think you just announced your daughter's [00:30:15] going to BYU, right? Did
Sydney Sloan: I Yeah, you're, she's my fourth, so I've [00:30:20] got, thank you. I've got two outta school. I've got, uh, one that's going to [00:30:25] Peru for a year and a half. I've got one that's graduating, going to BYU, and then I have [00:30:30] one in high school still. So, um, I've pretty, kind of boring. I don't
Sydney Sloan: Yeah,
Sydney Sloan: that [00:30:35] five to nine's a little bit. Well, let's, let's just call that five to nine momming,
Amy Cook: Yeah,
Sydney Sloan: which is, you know, [00:30:40]
Sydney Sloan: your
Amy Cook: that's right.
Amy Cook: My other job is the momming, and I love it. It's [00:30:45] fabulous. And then John, I mentioned this earlier, but I am a, a grandma now [00:30:50] too, and it's so much fun and what everything they say about [00:30:55] being a grandparent is true. It's like, it's so much fun because you don't have to do any of the heavy [00:31:00] lifting.
Amy Cook: You don't have to ever discipline it. And like my grandkid is a baby. I, of course, I wouldn't yet, [00:31:05] but, um, but I, I never will, ever again, and it's the best. All I can do is just [00:31:10] say, oh, I love you. Do you want snacks? Let's not tell your parents, and then that's [00:31:15] it.
Jon Miller: And your and your LinkedIn headline says that your name is is great. Glamma.
Amy Cook: [00:31:20] That's right. I'm trying to train everyone that I'm glam. I'm not grandma. [00:31:25] And so I was telling my daughter the other day that that was my name because she was asking me, she's [00:31:30] like, have you chosen your grandma name yet? And I said, yes, it's glam. And she goes, uh, [00:31:35] no it's not. She's like, it's gonna be whatever the kid tells you it's going to be.
Amy Cook: [00:31:40] So I'm like, It might be hard for them to say,
Sydney Sloan: I am not sure. Yeah.
Jon Miller: with, with your [00:31:45] power of communication and influence, I, I, I think that you're gonna start a trend with that one.
Amy Cook: [00:31:50] Well, thank you, John. I, I appreciate the opportunity to, to be here [00:31:55] today and to be able to chat with you guys. I've never been on a [00:32:00] podcast before with other CMOs where I want to ask you guys a bunch of [00:32:05] questions because I just wanna ask you the questions and see what I should do differently. Like, it's [00:32:10] really, really awesome what you've done here, um, with the podcast and with the organization.
Jon Miller: you.
Sydney Sloan: [00:32:15] Well, thank you for that. And we also then end on gratitude. So look at, you're [00:32:20] leaning into it already and allowing you to give shout outs to a couple [00:32:25] people that, um, you know, helped you get to where you are. We know we don't do this alone, so who would [00:32:30] you like to give
Amy Cook: Oh, well thank you so much. There are so many. It's, uh, I'm, I may be [00:32:35] blanking. Uh, I will be blanking on some of them, but a few people that [00:32:40] come to mind immediately are the team that have stayed with me for over 10 years [00:32:45] to, like, they were part of the agency and then they've come with me. And, [00:32:50] um, two in particular, three in particular.
Amy Cook: I'll shout out. Um, the first one is Megan [00:32:55] Ross. The second is Janelle Wright. Megan is my marketing ops person. Janelle is my [00:33:00] content person, and, uh, Eric Ramirez is our web developer. [00:33:05] Emily Wal does operations. I'm super grateful. I've worked with all of those guys for over 10 years, which is [00:33:10] amazing. And then, um, I would say I'm really grateful to my, [00:33:15] um, co-founder Ryan, for giving me a shot and giving me the opportunity all [00:33:20] those years ago to do my first CMO gig.
Amy Cook: Like what an awesome opportunity it was for [00:33:25] me to be able to, to do that. So, um, he also made my life really flexible. [00:33:30] And, uh, he said, you know, when I was ready to take the job. [00:33:35] Because I have so many children, I was like, you know what? I will work my guts out for you. I will do [00:33:40] anything you ask. I will like do more than full-time.
Amy Cook: I just need the hours from three to [00:33:45] seven off every day. And he was like, no problem. Just get your job done and who cares? And [00:33:50] so that was, that was really impactful for me. I'm super grateful for that. [00:33:55] And I'm grateful for all of the other CMOs who have taught me so much [00:34:00] over the years. And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm very excited about this.
Amy Cook: [00:34:05] What you're doing with the. Project and for the opportunity to learn. I think things are changing [00:34:10] so quickly. We all need to kind of link arms and figure it out together. [00:34:15] And I'm, uh, I'm really, uh, thankful to be part of that community.
Sydney Sloan: [00:34:20] Well, Amy, the show must go on Cook. Um, uh, thank you [00:34:25] so much for being here. The highlights that I took away from our conversation is really as a [00:34:30] strategic. CMO uh, owning pipeline is an important part of [00:34:35] how you remain strategic, the way that you talked about being vulnerable to build [00:34:40] relationships and opening up the kimono and welcoming feedback so you're in partnership [00:34:45] together with your, uh, with your peers, and then you're clearly metrics driven.
Sydney Sloan: [00:34:50] Um, and these are a lot of the things that we see in what Strategic CMOs do, and you [00:34:55] amplify it very well. Um, I just wanna say to everybody who's listening, I hope you [00:35:00] learned something today from us. If you like what you learned, please follow the b2b CMO [00:35:05] project.com and listen to our podcasts, our primary research.
Sydney Sloan: [00:35:10] If you are a, at scale CMO, you can join our community. And again, Amy, [00:35:15] thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today.
Amy Cook: Thank you so much.
Thanks for listening [00:35:20] to the B2B CMO podcast. Head on over to b2b CMO project.com [00:35:25] for more episodes, plus the latest research and framework CMOs need, [00:35:30] not just to survive but actually thrive as AI in the new playbook reshape how we [00:35:35] Go-To-Market. And if this episode sparks something for you, please follow the show.
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