Can the Orlando Magic Take the Next Step? | Philip Rossman-Reich from Locked On Magic

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Welcome to the Attack the Paint Show.

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My name is Ravneet Singh, and I am here with
a special guest,

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Philip Rossman-Reich. He is a senior writer
at Orlando Magic Daily

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and he is host of Locked On Magic.

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It's a pleasure to have you on.

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Philip, how are you doing today?

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I am doing good, just one day closer to
training camp.

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The bones are aching,

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they're ready to get running here.

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Yeah, I could tell I've been listening to
your show lately and

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I'm feeling pumped for Orlando Magic
basketball right now.

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I see on your pods though you usually have a
Tampa Bay Rays hat.

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So are you following—following the Rays this
year?

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I am I am

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I am following the Rays this year.

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I bounce between the Rays and the Marlins.

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My fish, the Fighting Fish, had a decent
season.

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They're gonna finish under five hundred,

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I think. But they got some young guys that
are looking good.

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But the Rays have just been fun.

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I've jetted over to St.

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Pete a few times to see them play this year.

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I'm excited about the Rays,

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but unfortunately it runs into basketball
season,

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so basketball season is going to begin here.

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Yeah. It's hard for me to follow baseball
when basketball's going on,

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but I will try

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Yeah.

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to follow

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some baseball playoffs this year.

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but let's go talk some basketball right now.

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Let's talk Magic and talk to me about your
expectations for the Magic.

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I know you're optimistic about the team,

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so tell the people why you're optimistic.

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Yeah, I mean, obviously the expectations for
the Magic are to be

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to be competitive. Like, I don't think
anyone is sitting there saying this

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is a championship team quite yet.

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but we were two years ago saying,

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like, this is a young team on the rise,

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a team that's getting ready to take that big
step.

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They had their big playoff breakthrough.

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They got two really good, promising young
players.

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who are all-star level players.

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In the meantime, they've made their all-in
trade to go get Desmond Bane.

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And this team's sort of just like dropped
the ball the last two years.

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You know, injuries were a big part of that.

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Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner tore their
obliques in the 2025 season.

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Jalen Suggs suffered what ended up being a
pretty major knee injury.

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They kind of swept it under the rug,

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how big that knee injury was.

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But he had a pretty major knee injury that
ended his 2025 season.

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Last year they make the trade for Desmond
Bane.

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Everyone's back on the bandwagon again,

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really believing. And then Paolo misses,

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misses about a month with a strained groin.

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Franz Wagner misses the majority of the
season with a high ankle sprain.

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And the pieces just didn't come together.

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For whatever reason, the defense kind of
lost its grit and lost itself.

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And the Magic just could not kind of get
everything together.

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And so my optimism remains that

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If this team is healthy, if they can get 70
plus games out of Paolo and Franz,

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which they haven't done for the last two
years,

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if they could get 70 plus games out of both
of those players,

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this is still a really good team.

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You know, for all the criticisms that Paolo
Banchero faces,

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he is still a really good player and can put
up points in bunches.

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And when he gets himself rolling,

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he answers his critics pretty well.

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And I'm sure we'll talk about that a little
bit later on.

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And so

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I think there's still some pretty big
deficiencies on this team.

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There's obviously a new coach which adds
just another level of mystery

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to this group. But I think people also
forget how successful this team

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can be and how successful this team has been
in the short stretches

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the last few years when they were healthy.

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And one of those stretches was games one
through four against

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a 60-win Detroit Pistons team where the
Magic just kind of pushed them around

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and bullied them for about a week and a half
until the Franz Wagner injury

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and the Magic kind of turned back into

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the .500 pumpkin that they were without
Franz Wagner last year.

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And so I'm optimistic that this team's gonna
avoid some of the random

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and just random injuries that they've had.

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And if they could put together a healthy
season,

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I think that they could be a team that
fights for home-court advantage

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in the Eastern Conference, a team that gets
to the second round.

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And even if they're sitting as a five or a
six seed,

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they're a team that's dangerous in a in a
playoff series to get to the next round.

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Provided that they are healthy.

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And that is obviously a big asterisk for a
lot of teams in the Eastern Conference.

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So I think the Magic are much more in the
mix than a lot of people think they are.

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Yeah, I genuinely agree with you.

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the only thing is the Eastern Conference is
becoming a juggernaut

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and it's not this pushover conference that
it used to be.

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but I got a trivia question for you,

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not to put you on the spot. But how many
games do you think the starting lineup

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for the Magic played last year in the
regular season?

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Last year was like 16 games. It's like 16,

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Yeah, it was nineteen. Yeah.

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17 games. Yeah. I got, I

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Yeah. So that's

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got, I got a factoid for you then.

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Yeah.

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Where did the Magic starting lineup rank
among all lineups that played

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at least 150 minutes last year?

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I would guess in the top twenty five
percentile.

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Top 25 percentile would be good.

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They're even better than that.

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They were ninth. They had a plus

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Wow. Okay.

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12 net—that starting lineup had a plus-12
net rating when they were

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on the floor together. And it was plus-14
before Franz Wagner's

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injury, before he came back. Franz Wagner
made like a five-game cameo

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at the end of last season. I questioned why
he did that and why

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the Magic did that. I thought they should
have just shut him down,

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but like it put them in the playoffs.

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And then in the playoffs against the
Pistons.

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That starting five had like a plus,

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I want to say 16 net rating. They were the

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Mm-hmm.

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best non-Spurs lineup that played at least
50 minutes in the playoffs together.

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that line and the Pistons are like a unique,

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it's obviously playoffs are matchups.

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Pistons were kind of a uniquely good matchup
for Orlando because of their lack

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of shooting. But that starting lineup did
some damage and the Magic

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are betting big that it can do damage again.

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So you mentioned the shooting because

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Yeah.

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that's the one concern that I have,

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I think. Because besides health,

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let's assume that they're gonna stay
healthy.

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I think shooting's the other big question
mark because Desmond Bane,

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I think he's maybe your guys' best shooter,

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if I had to say.

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Understatement.

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and

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Ha

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and then it's like a lot of question marks
after that,

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I feel like. So how confident do you feel
about the team's shooting this year?

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And you think we're gonna see some
improvement in that area?

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Yeah, it's the reason why you can't consider
the Magic a championship contender,

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even if they're at their best version of
themselves,

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is because of the lack of shooting and the
lack of spacing.

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Half-court offense is going to continue to
be a struggle.

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And a lot of the Magic's improvement
offensively last year,

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which yes, they did improve offensively last
year despite some very high profile,

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embarrassing moments offensively.

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A big part of that was they just got better
in transition.

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And I think that'll still be a big key
because the Magic kept

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Joe Prunty from the last coaching staff to
work with Sean Sweeney and

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the new coaching staff.

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but the shooting is still a huge question
mark.

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And it's, you know, it's a little bit about
opportunity.

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we'll see what the new offense does.

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Maybe a Sean Sweeney offense manipulates
space better and uses spacing better

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to create more open threes. like Desmond
Bane shot 39% from three last year.

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It was a low for him, but after—I think it
was after January 1st,

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he shot 40%, 40%

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41% from three. He was on a tear and was
back to being like,

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this is the Desmond Bane the Magic paid so
much for.

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But the big key with him is he took the
fewest three-point attempts

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per game since his rookie year.

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He only took about six threes a game.

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The Magic certainly want that up around
seven,

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eight, nine. Jalen Suggs actually led the
team in three-point attempts per game.

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And Suggs is obviously not the same quality
of three-point shooter,

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although Suggs can get hot. And when he gets
hot,

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the Magic are suddenly a juggernaut that no
one can stop.

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I don't know how I don't I mean,

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the shooting is still obviously a big
weakness for Orlando.

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But if the new offense that Sean Sweeney is
running manipulates space

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a little bit better, puts players in better
positions to create more three-point

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opportunities, because half the Magic's
problem has been volume.

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When during the twenty-four season or
twenty-five season,

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the Magic were bottom five in the league in
three-point attempts per game.

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And it's one thing to you know,

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you're not making threes, so not taking
threes is probably a good thing,

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but

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In this league, you gotta have volume.

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You gotta have bites at the apple.

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The more bites at the apple you get,

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the more chances you have to make threes and
keep up with teams.

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Like when the Magic played the Celtics in
the 2025 playoffs,

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I was explaining to some of the more general
sports reporters,

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like this is a math problem. Like this
series is a math problem.

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Boston could shoot, you know, 35% from
three,

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but if they're taking fifty threes,

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thirty-five percent from three is the same
as shooting forty percent on half

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on half that much. So

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The league is increasingly becoming that.

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So three-point shot is really,

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really important. And so the Magic have to
do a better job of getting their best

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three-point shooters, three-point shots
where they like them.

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And that's gonna be a big task for Sean
Sweeney.

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Like Jalen Suggs is actually a great example
of this.

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Suggs was a 33% three-point shooter last
year,

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I believe, or somewhere around there.

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On spot-up attempts, he shot 39.6%.

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If you can get him catch-and-shoot threes or
spot-up threes,

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that

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changes the formula with Jalen Suggs.

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If he's taking a lot of pull-up threes or
doing,

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you know, crazy dribble moves or step-backs
into threes,

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that stuff's bad. Even Paolo's like that.

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Like if you look at Paolo's numbers,

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his spot-up threes and he did not have a
good shooting year last year.

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So none of his shooting numbers looked good
last year.

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But even his spot-up threes, like he is
upper thirties,

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like that's passable. So it's about finding
the right three pointers and

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and covering up that weakness with your
defense, with getting

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Easy points in transition, all that stuff.

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But yeah, shooting and offense is still
going to be a bit of a struggle

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for this team unless there's some major
leaps this year.

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Yeah. I am excited to see what Sweeney could
bring to the table.

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I think it was time for a new head coach.

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but, you know,

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I was looking at your guys' roster and I'm
like,

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Nikola Vucevic, I totally forgot about that.

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I

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Yeah.

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was like, that's a fun reunion.

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and you know, he could actually space the
floor and maybe give you guys maybe like

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fifteen minutes a game. I mean,

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do you see him playing any role for you guys
and playing with Paolo and Franz

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at the same time?

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Don't know if you'll play a lot of minutes
with Paolo and Franz.

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Like I think I think Vooch is gonna be a key
player off the bench.

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Like if you just I mean, just thinking of it
this way,

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like he still averaged 15 points per game
with the Bulls.

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Like, you know, he struggled with Boston,

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he had the hand injury, like it like I don't
think Boston ever saw who he was.

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And the way Boston's offense works,

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I don't think it works to Vucevic's benefit,

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but

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You know, if you think about it this way,

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00:10:59,211 --> 00:11:02,103
like the Magic had one of the lowest scoring
benches in the league last year.

236
00:11:02,103 --> 00:11:05,765
All of a sudden, you're adding a player who
you can run offense through.

237
00:11:05,765 --> 00:11:08,196
Like Nikola Vucevic is still a pretty good
passer,

238
00:11:08,196 --> 00:11:10,137
is still a really good post-up player,

239
00:11:10,137 --> 00:11:12,939
and he'll hit those pick-and-pop threes and
pick-and-pop jumpers.

240
00:11:12,939 --> 00:11:16,041
Now you just have a lot more flexibility
with those lineups.

241
00:11:16,041 --> 00:11:18,923
The reason and Magic fans know this as well
as anybody,

242
00:11:18,923 --> 00:11:21,084
but Nikola Vucevic's defense has fallen off.

243
00:11:21,084 --> 00:11:24,226
And that's why Chicago couldn't really get
any traction.

244
00:11:24,810 --> 00:11:27,982
You know, that's why Boston didn't fully
trust him in the playoffs because

245
00:11:27,982 --> 00:11:29,713
he wasn't a great fit in their offense
anyway,

246
00:11:29,713 --> 00:11:31,314
even though it's so three-point heavy.

247
00:11:31,314 --> 00:11:34,816
The Magic will have to do a lot of work to
protect him defensively.

248
00:11:34,816 --> 00:11:37,738
And the hope would be like, you're gonna
have him in lineups where,

249
00:11:37,738 --> 00:11:40,780
you know, Franz Wagner is on the floor or
Jalen Suggs is on the floor,

250
00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:42,140
or Anthony Black's on the floor,

251
00:11:42,140 --> 00:11:45,232
you know, pairing him up with Jonathan Isaac
or Noah Penda,

252
00:11:45,232 --> 00:11:47,264
two pretty solid young defenders.

253
00:11:47,264 --> 00:11:49,075
And you're playing him off the bench,

254
00:11:49,075 --> 00:11:51,086
most likely against other bench players.

255
00:11:51,757 --> 00:11:55,403
I think you could extract a lot out of
Nikola Vucevic and for a team that just

256
00:11:55,403 --> 00:11:57,717
needs anyone who can put the ball in the
basket sometimes,

257
00:11:57,717 --> 00:12:01,374
that's super duper valuable. And I and I and
I think Vooch is going to

258
00:12:01,374 --> 00:12:02,516
be a really good fit for this team.

259
00:12:03,191 --> 00:12:06,863
Yeah, and I think him playing with the young
guys will help them a little bit.

260
00:12:06,863 --> 00:12:09,254
He will kinda like stabilize them a little

261
00:12:08,739 --> 00:12:09,739
Yeah.

262
00:12:09,254 --> 00:12:12,015
bit. And, you know, speaking of those young
guys,

263
00:12:12,015 --> 00:12:15,466
I'm kind of excited to see what Tristan da
Silva,

264
00:12:15,466 --> 00:12:18,988
Jase Richardson, Anthony Black can do off
the bench.

265
00:12:18,988 --> 00:12:21,939
It's starting to look like a strength of
this team.

266
00:12:21,939 --> 00:12:26,181
Those guys coming off the bench, plus Vooch.

267
00:12:26,181 --> 00:12:29,502
So any of those guys I mentioned or anyone
else,

268
00:12:29,502 --> 00:12:31,033
you mentioned Noah Penda.

269
00:12:31,947 --> 00:12:35,286
Anyone you’re expecting a big leap from this
season?

270
00:12:36,846 --> 00:12:37,846
I'm

271
00:12:36,936 --> 00:12:39,387
expecting a very big leap from Noah Penda.

272
00:12:39,387 --> 00:12:43,229
like the Magic kind of threw him into the
fire a few times last year,

273
00:12:43,229 --> 00:12:44,819
just because of injuries they had,

274
00:12:44,819 --> 00:12:46,070
they had nowhere else to go to.

275
00:12:46,070 --> 00:12:48,941
And Penda looked like he was playing like a
rookie,

276
00:12:48,941 --> 00:12:50,071
like he had no clue where to be,

277
00:12:50,071 --> 00:12:51,772
like everything was super fast for him.

278
00:12:51,772 --> 00:12:53,973
But he had a couple, he had a couple double
doubles,

279
00:12:53,973 --> 00:12:56,914
like he had a couple games where he was just
gobbling up offensive rebounds.

280
00:12:56,914 --> 00:13:01,206
And you could see what the Magic saw in him
and why they traded

281
00:13:01,206 --> 00:13:03,187
up to get him and the potential he had.

282
00:13:03,187 --> 00:13:06,388
He was a better three-point shooter than I
than I thought he would be coming out.

283
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,082
Coming into the draft. and so obviously,

284
00:13:09,082 --> 00:13:10,984
like that's an area where he has to continue
improving.

285
00:13:10,984 --> 00:13:13,045
Like Jonathan Isaac, as good as he is
defensively,

286
00:13:13,045 --> 00:13:15,487
shoots like shot like 23% from three last
year,

287
00:13:15,487 --> 00:13:17,399
you know, barely made a quarter of his
threes last year.

288
00:13:17,399 --> 00:13:20,372
Like you're that you need three-point
shooting out of that spot.

289
00:13:20,372 --> 00:13:23,374
But Penda had this incredible summer league.

290
00:13:23,374 --> 00:13:25,005
He looked a lot more confident on the ball.

291
00:13:25,005 --> 00:13:26,517
He looked like he knew where he was.

292
00:13:26,517 --> 00:13:28,268
He looked like a second-year player in
summer league.

293
00:13:28,268 --> 00:13:31,100
He just looked like he belonged and was
better than a lot of the players

294
00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:33,913
on the floor, which is what you want to see
in summer league.

295
00:13:33,913 --> 00:13:35,174
and so

296
00:13:35,734 --> 00:13:38,386
I'm curious if that translates into the
regular season.

297
00:13:38,386 --> 00:13:43,059
He seemed like he really took this summer
seriously and really

298
00:13:43,079 --> 00:13:46,892
is due for a big leap. It would not shock me
if the Magic's decision

299
00:13:46,892 --> 00:13:48,303
to sign Jonathan Isaac, they're like,

300
00:13:48,303 --> 00:13:50,744
We don't need him anymore. Like Penda's our
guy.

301
00:13:50,744 --> 00:13:53,026
Like he can man those backup four minutes.

302
00:13:54,052 --> 00:13:58,323
Yeah. I'm a little surprised you didn't say
Tristan da Silva.

303
00:13:58,323 --> 00:14:01,130
Talk to me about why you're not as high on
him.

304
00:14:01,708 --> 00:14:03,660
It's not that I'm not high on him.

305
00:14:03,660 --> 00:14:06,813
It's he's a little bit older. Like he him
and Paolo,

306
00:14:06,813 --> 00:14:08,534
I think, are the same age. like,

307
00:14:08,534 --> 00:14:10,106
you know, he spent all four years in
college,

308
00:14:10,106 --> 00:14:11,367
so he's a little bit older.

309
00:14:11,367 --> 00:14:15,771
I just don't see a way for his role to
expand.

310
00:14:15,771 --> 00:14:19,344
Like, I think what he was last year is what
he is in the league.

311
00:14:19,344 --> 00:14:21,896
He is a catch-and-shoot, three-point
shooter,

312
00:14:21,896 --> 00:14:24,959
kind of you know, keep the ball moving type
of guy,

313
00:14:24,959 --> 00:14:26,530
gonna hold his own defensively,

314
00:14:26,530 --> 00:14:28,172
but you're not gonna lean on him for.

315
00:14:28,568 --> 00:14:32,040
for much of anything other than spacing the
floor and just being

316
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:33,430
in the right spots and being solid,

317
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:35,851
which is kind of what the Magic drafted him
for.

318
00:14:35,851 --> 00:14:40,073
But I felt like he took a little bit of a
leap in the second season,

319
00:14:40,073 --> 00:14:43,455
but he didn't take the, yeah, this guy is
part of the future.

320
00:14:43,455 --> 00:14:46,466
Like this guy is someone that this was a
great draft pick.

321
00:14:46,466 --> 00:14:49,097
Like right now it feels like it's a B,
B-minus draft pick.

322
00:14:49,097 --> 00:14:51,118
It's he's serviceable. He'll take care,

323
00:14:51,118 --> 00:14:54,770
he'll do the job, but like when we get to
extension talks next summer,

324
00:14:54,770 --> 00:14:55,770
I'm like

325
00:14:55,298 --> 00:14:56,779
I'm not extending him. Like I'm not,

326
00:14:56,779 --> 00:14:58,389
I'll let the market set itself.

327
00:14:58,389 --> 00:15:00,780
You know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna break
the bank for this guy.

328
00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:05,102
and that's where we're heading with Tristan
da Silva right now is you know,

329
00:15:05,102 --> 00:15:07,303
now you gotta think about beyond his rookie
contract.

330
00:15:07,303 --> 00:15:10,154
And it's just like, yeah, he has a place in
the NBA,

331
00:15:10,154 --> 00:15:15,166
but I'm not losing sleep if he has to be
part of a trade I need to do,

332
00:15:15,166 --> 00:15:16,166
if that makes sense.

333
00:15:17,347 --> 00:15:21,694
Yeah, no, that makes sense. The only thing
is like he on paper he might

334
00:15:21,694 --> 00:15:23,316
be your guys' second best shooter,

335
00:15:23,316 --> 00:15:26,221
at least la last season. So that's you know,

336
00:15:24,332 --> 00:15:27,383
He might be, yeah. But his shooting

337
00:15:26,221 --> 00:15:27,221
that's why I'm like

338
00:15:27,563 --> 00:15:29,233
and but like that but like that's the thing.

339
00:15:29,233 --> 00:15:31,224
Like his shooting goes up and down.

340
00:15:31,224 --> 00:15:32,224
Like, you know,

341
00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:32,780
Mm-hmm.

342
00:15:32,444 --> 00:15:37,346
You know, maybe Jamahl Mosley had it wrong,

343
00:15:37,346 --> 00:15:40,385
but he played Jamal Cain over Tristan da
Silva.

344
00:15:40,385 --> 00:15:45,208
I am honestly a lot more intrigued with
Jamal Cain's upside

345
00:15:45,388 --> 00:15:49,119
and whether he continues to develop as a
shooter and whether he continues

346
00:15:49,119 --> 00:15:52,600
to gain more consistency than I am with
Tristan da Silva right now,

347
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:53,600
which is

348
00:15:54,253 --> 00:15:56,424
a reflection of how hard Jamal Cain has
worked,

349
00:15:56,424 --> 00:16:02,346
but also like how Tristan da Silva hasn't
always made an impression.

350
00:16:02,346 --> 00:16:03,947
And maybe that's fair,

351
00:16:03,947 --> 00:16:06,158
maybe that's unfair. And it's not like
Tristan da Silva's a bad player.

352
00:16:06,158 --> 00:16:07,688
Like he's an NBA player, don't get me wrong.

353
00:16:07,688 --> 00:16:12,580
But like the Magic need every draft pick to
hit right now with their salary

354
00:16:12,580 --> 00:16:17,772
cap situation. And like it not that da Silva
hasn't hit,

355
00:16:17,772 --> 00:16:20,353
it's just not it's just a moderate one.

356
00:16:20,353 --> 00:16:23,074
And it just it doesn't feel like he's

357
00:16:23,487 --> 00:16:25,266
As important as you would hope he would.

358
00:16:26,254 --> 00:16:30,245
Yeah. Well you mentioned Cain and Cain was
also a good shooter for

359
00:16:30,245 --> 00:16:36,367
you guys last season too. But Anthony Black
is the one who off

360
00:16:36,367 --> 00:16:38,968
the bench that I am probably most excited to
see.

361
00:16:38,968 --> 00:16:44,239
And like you've mentioned, he is one of the
leading candidates

362
00:16:44,239 --> 00:16:47,030
to win sixth man of the year, and rightfully
so.

363
00:16:47,030 --> 00:16:52,491
So I wanna ask you, do you see him closing a
lot of lineups and does

364
00:16:52,491 --> 00:16:55,062
he have any chance to break into the
starting lineup?

365
00:16:55,824 --> 00:16:58,406
you know, of course if there's a trade,

366
00:16:58,406 --> 00:17:00,425
which—I will send some trade offers,

367
00:17:00,425 --> 00:17:02,648
I wanna get your opinion on them.

368
00:17:02,648 --> 00:17:07,472
But talk to me about Anthony Black, and
where do you see his role being this

369
00:17:07,472 --> 00:17:08,472
year with the Magic?

370
00:17:08,866 --> 00:17:12,037
Yeah, it's Anthony Black is like such an
interesting case.

371
00:17:12,037 --> 00:17:14,396
Like, do I see him finishing games when he's
playing,

372
00:17:14,396 --> 00:17:15,428
when he's playing really well,

373
00:17:15,428 --> 00:17:17,278
or he's scoring, or depending on what the
Magic need,

374
00:17:17,278 --> 00:17:19,898
like absolutely. he is that good.

375
00:17:19,898 --> 00:17:21,309
And he did that last year.

376
00:17:21,309 --> 00:17:25,991
do I see him supplanting Jalen Suggs in the
starting lineup?

377
00:17:25,991 --> 00:17:30,112
I'm not sold that's gonna happen
immediately.

378
00:17:30,112 --> 00:17:32,212
it certainly could happen.

379
00:17:32,212 --> 00:17:34,653
It could get to a point where the Magic are
comfortable,

380
00:17:34,653 --> 00:17:37,524
you know, making a Jalen Suggs trade because
they believe Anthony Black

381
00:17:37,524 --> 00:17:38,524
can be their starter.

382
00:17:38,903 --> 00:17:42,755
I my only concern with that is that Black
has not shown yet,

383
00:17:42,755 --> 00:17:45,777
and maybe he will this year, but he has not
shown yet that he can be kind

384
00:17:45,777 --> 00:17:47,427
of a lead playmaker. You know,

385
00:17:47,427 --> 00:17:50,089
for all the hand-wringing about Jalen Suggs
being the point guard,

386
00:17:50,089 --> 00:17:52,190
which may or may not be an issue for the
Magic.

387
00:17:52,190 --> 00:17:55,912
That they need a point guard. Suggs still
averaged a career high five,

388
00:17:55,912 --> 00:17:58,093
five point eight assists per game.

389
00:17:58,093 --> 00:17:59,703
I want to say five point six assists per
game last year.

390
00:17:59,703 --> 00:18:01,945
He averaged five and a half, six assists per
game last year,

391
00:18:01,945 --> 00:18:05,697
which was a career high. he's shown some
aptitude as a passer,

392
00:18:05,697 --> 00:18:08,148
whereas Anthony Black hasn't

393
00:18:08,322 --> 00:18:09,763
Maybe he hasn't been put in that role,

394
00:18:09,763 --> 00:18:12,245
but he hasn't quite been there.

395
00:18:12,245 --> 00:18:17,720
And right now, Black has been better as the
I'm gonna go score the ball type of guy.

396
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,071
And the Magic need players like that.

397
00:18:19,071 --> 00:18:22,934
Don't get me wrong. and the fact that Black
could grow into that kind

398
00:18:22,934 --> 00:18:27,117
of player last year and frankly win the
Magic several games last December,

399
00:18:27,117 --> 00:18:31,541
and be kind of a huge difference maker
beyond just scoring in transition

400
00:18:31,541 --> 00:18:34,983
or spot-up threes, that is that is a big
deal.

401
00:18:34,983 --> 00:18:38,066
So it's a big, it's obviously a big season
for Anthony Black.

402
00:18:38,166 --> 00:18:40,526
Like his extension's due up. I don't know if
the Magic can

403
00:18:40,526 --> 00:18:41,947
get something done before the deadline.

404
00:18:41,947 --> 00:18:45,388
He could be looking at restricted free
agency or at least a little stint

405
00:18:45,388 --> 00:18:49,200
in free agency next summer. he's got to go
out and prove that A,

406
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,370
last year wasn't a fluke, that B,

407
00:18:51,370 --> 00:18:54,490
he can fill a role and C that he can push
for starters minutes.

408
00:18:54,490 --> 00:18:56,362
And so it will be something to watch all
year.

409
00:18:56,362 --> 00:19:00,533
I am expecting a big Sixth Man of the
Year-type season for Anthony Black.

410
00:19:00,533 --> 00:19:02,154
you know, there's

411
00:19:02,604 --> 00:19:06,367
Some on off numbers that suggest that he
isn't the best fit with the starting group.

412
00:19:06,367 --> 00:19:08,544
And so I think coming off the bench is still
the right move for him.

413
00:19:09,844 --> 00:19:14,527
I generally agree right now, but I he has a
lot of potential and I'm like,

414
00:19:14,527 --> 00:19:18,580
you guys do need more playmaking and he
could provide that.

415
00:19:18,580 --> 00:19:20,111
I think potentially, you know?

416
00:19:18,828 --> 00:19:20,949
Yeah. I've

417
00:19:20,111 --> 00:19:21,111
But

418
00:19:20,949 --> 00:19:23,580
said this, I've said this through the early
parts of his career.

419
00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:28,122
I don't always feel like Anthony Black
understands how good he is.

420
00:19:28,122 --> 00:19:31,683
And last year, or how good he can be.

421
00:19:31,683 --> 00:19:32,814
And last

422
00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:32,930
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

423
00:19:32,814 --> 00:19:34,954
because he's just he's the nicest kid in the
world.

424
00:19:34,954 --> 00:19:40,247
Like he's just really kind of quiet and a
little bit goofy sometimes.

425
00:19:40,247 --> 00:19:45,029
last year I think was the first time where
he was like realizing,

426
00:19:45,029 --> 00:19:46,710
like, I'm this good.

427
00:19:46,881 --> 00:19:47,881
I like I am

428
00:19:47,247 --> 00:19:48,247
Yeah.

429
00:19:47,572 --> 00:19:49,425
this good. It's not just like self-talk is
like,

430
00:19:49,425 --> 00:19:53,791
no, like I am this good. And if he figures
out that next level,

431
00:19:53,791 --> 00:19:57,096
it changes the whole equation for so many
things with this Magic team.

432
00:19:57,096 --> 00:20:00,161
Like there definitely is a lot invested in
this season for Anthony Black.

433
00:20:01,627 --> 00:20:06,222
So are you thinking that an extension will
get done with him and where

434
00:20:06,222 --> 00:20:12,039
do you see that number being? It's not even
a bad thing

435
00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:13,571
in my opinion, but I wanna know what you
think,

436
00:20:13,571 --> 00:20:15,373
like if an extension doesn't get done.

437
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:22,104
Yeah, I don't think they're going to get an
extension done at

438
00:20:22,104 --> 00:20:23,655
the deadline at this deadline.

439
00:20:23,655 --> 00:20:27,668
And it's not that I think there's any
acrimony between the Magic and Black.

440
00:20:27,668 --> 00:20:29,409
Like I think Black wants to get paid.

441
00:20:29,409 --> 00:20:31,721
Like I like obviously he wants to get paid.

442
00:20:31,721 --> 00:20:36,204
I think him and his representatives are
probably looking for at least

443
00:20:36,204 --> 00:20:38,625
a Dyson Daniels deal, which was four for a
hundred.

444
00:20:38,625 --> 00:20:41,827
I've been kind of floating at four for
ninety-three,

445
00:20:41,827 --> 00:20:43,859
like somewhere in like somewhere in like the
twenty-three

446
00:20:43,859 --> 00:20:45,400
to twenty-four million dollars a year range.

447
00:20:46,098 --> 00:20:48,850
and so I think that is certainly on the
table.

448
00:20:48,850 --> 00:20:52,742
And I think the gap is close enough that
even if they go to free agency next summer,

449
00:20:52,742 --> 00:20:55,723
the Magic and Black will kind of close that
gap.

450
00:20:55,723 --> 00:21:00,626
I think the Magic are more motivated to slow
play this than anything else,

451
00:21:00,626 --> 00:21:04,168
though, because of the Magic's cap
situation.

452
00:21:04,168 --> 00:21:08,010
The Magic are currently two and a half
million dollars under the second apron,

453
00:21:08,010 --> 00:21:11,932
wiping out all the non-guaranteed deals and
everything else.

454
00:21:11,932 --> 00:21:15,114
The Magic have, I believe, seven players
under contract for next season.

455
00:21:15,660 --> 00:21:16,660
And

456
00:21:15,780 --> 00:21:18,301
they're $18 million under the tax line.

457
00:21:18,301 --> 00:21:20,673
Obviously, Anthony Black's going to make
more than $18 million.

458
00:21:20,673 --> 00:21:24,405
This is one of the most expensive teams in
the league.

459
00:21:24,405 --> 00:21:31,249
And so if I'm the Magic, I and like we're
all kind of thinking about this.

460
00:21:31,249 --> 00:21:34,091
It's three straight years out in the first
round.

461
00:21:34,091 --> 00:21:37,082
It's two straight years in the play-in
tournament.

462
00:21:37,082 --> 00:21:41,585
If I'm the Magic, I kind of don't know what
my future is.

463
00:21:41,585 --> 00:21:43,226
Like some of it is.

464
00:21:43,939 --> 00:21:47,901
We're using this season to figure out who
we're actually going to keep

465
00:21:47,901 --> 00:21:52,103
and how we're going to build moving forward
or whether this core group

466
00:21:52,103 --> 00:21:56,585
of players who've been together for five
years now can stay together and

467
00:21:56,585 --> 00:22:00,027
and be the team that leads us to a
championship because the Magic have

468
00:22:00,027 --> 00:22:03,369
to be competitive. They don't have they
don't have control of their

469
00:22:03,369 --> 00:22:09,112
own draft fully until 2031. And so if I'm
the if I'm Jeff Weltman,

470
00:22:09,112 --> 00:22:10,472
I'm the Magic, I'd be like, yes,

471
00:22:10,472 --> 00:22:12,193
I would love to keep Anthony Black,

472
00:22:12,193 --> 00:22:13,334
but

473
00:22:13,664 --> 00:22:17,065
If I'm about to if I'm using this season to
decide whether

474
00:22:17,065 --> 00:22:20,797
I'm trading Paolo Banchero or Franz Wagner
or you know,

475
00:22:20,797 --> 00:22:22,678
what am I gonna do with Jalen Suggs?

476
00:22:22,678 --> 00:22:26,079
Why would I commit like again,

477
00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:32,662
like commit myself to $25 million a year to
Anthony Black when I don't know what

478
00:22:32,662 --> 00:22:34,482
the direction of my team is going to be?

479
00:22:34,482 --> 00:22:35,543
And so

480
00:22:35,057 --> 00:22:36,057
Mm-hmm.

481
00:22:35,543 --> 00:22:40,775
I think that the Magic are probably
slow-playing this more than

482
00:22:40,775 --> 00:22:43,096
anything, rather than Anthony Black
demanding too much money.

483
00:22:43,778 --> 00:22:45,739
I think the Magic are slow playing this
because,

484
00:22:45,739 --> 00:22:47,800
or the Magic should be slow playing this at
least,

485
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,871
because they gotta figure themselves out
before they commit to something.

486
00:22:51,871 --> 00:22:54,263
They have matching rights on Anthony Black.

487
00:22:54,263 --> 00:22:56,634
They're under no pressure. You know,

488
00:22:56,634 --> 00:22:59,476
the pressure is minimal other than maybe
ticking them off,

489
00:22:59,476 --> 00:23:01,357
which they've been very good about not
ticking off their players.

490
00:23:01,357 --> 00:23:02,707
They've taken care of all their players.

491
00:23:02,707 --> 00:23:07,240
but they're under no pressure to make that
decision now.

492
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:08,240
They can wait till July.

493
00:23:09,773 --> 00:23:13,875
I think they probably should, with
everything that you've said.

494
00:23:13,875 --> 00:23:18,630
And they need to figure out what this team
is because, like we said

495
00:23:18,243 --> 00:23:19,243
Yeah.

496
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:21,603
in the beginning, they haven't played a lot
together.

497
00:23:21,603 --> 00:23:24,535
So let's see what this team actually is and
let's see if they could

498
00:23:24,535 --> 00:23:27,318
win a playoff series. And if not,

499
00:23:27,318 --> 00:23:31,211
then you know, it might be time for a
change.

500
00:23:31,211 --> 00:23:34,674
And so I wanna talk about potential trades
now.

501
00:23:34,674 --> 00:23:38,517
And you mentioned in one of your episodes
how

502
00:23:39,683 --> 00:23:43,358
moving away from breaking up the Franz and
Paolo duo,

503
00:23:43,358 --> 00:23:45,571
that seems like it would be a mistake.

504
00:23:45,571 --> 00:23:51,088
And I completely agree. I think those it's
hard to find wings at that

505
00:23:51,088 --> 00:23:53,631
at those sizes and with that much talent.

506
00:23:53,631 --> 00:23:57,877
And we've seen, you know, at that age too

507
00:23:56,039 --> 00:23:57,940
age. Like I know

508
00:23:57,940 --> 00:24:00,021
they're expensive, but like Paolo,

509
00:24:00,021 --> 00:24:03,182
Paolo turns 24 in November. Franz

510
00:24:02,811 --> 00:24:03,811
Yeah.

511
00:24:03,182 --> 00:24:06,824
turned 25 a month ago. Like they're still
like I think people sometimes think

512
00:24:06,824 --> 00:24:08,245
they're like late 20s. It's like,

513
00:24:08,245 --> 00:24:10,686
no, they're like just now entering their
prime.

514
00:24:11,247 --> 00:24:15,881
Yeah, and we've seen that type of team build
work with the Celtics

515
00:24:16,021 --> 00:24:19,163
and Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown.

516
00:24:19,163 --> 00:24:21,175
And I know it's not the same. I know they're
different players,

517
00:24:21,175 --> 00:24:26,219
but we've just seen two wings win a
championship as your two best players.

518
00:24:26,219 --> 00:24:31,173
And so I think I would be very hesitant, if
I'm the Magic, to break up them two.

519
00:24:31,173 --> 00:24:37,699
But the trades that I thought of had more

520
00:24:37,699 --> 00:24:40,541
to do with I thought of one

521
00:24:40,813 --> 00:24:43,335
Jalen Suggs trade. So let me run that one by
you.

522
00:24:43,335 --> 00:24:49,101
Jalen Suggs, Jevon Carter for Immanuel
Quickley.

523
00:24:49,101 --> 00:24:51,363
What do you think about that one?

524
00:24:51,363 --> 00:24:55,087
Because Immanuel Quickley was more of a
point guard and we've kind

525
00:24:54,691 --> 00:24:55,691
Yeah.

526
00:24:55,087 --> 00:24:57,379
of discussed that might be what you guys
kind of need.

527
00:24:57,986 --> 00:25:01,008
That's not one that I hate.

528
00:25:01,008 --> 00:25:06,772
I have actually sort of thought that could
be a direction that the team goes.

529
00:25:06,772 --> 00:25:10,555
I that's that is actually a trade that I've
thought of a little bit.

530
00:25:10,555 --> 00:25:14,346
I'm gonna pull up the trade machines here in
a sec,

531
00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:17,579
cause like the Magic's next big goal is to
cut payroll.

532
00:25:17,579 --> 00:25:21,344
And so like Immanuel Quickley at thirty two
and a half million dollars,

533
00:25:21,344 --> 00:25:25,185
I don't think the Magic would do that from a
financial standpoint.

534
00:25:25,185 --> 00:25:26,926
Like basketball, I think it makes sense.

535
00:25:27,306 --> 00:25:29,296
IQ is a better offensive player,

536
00:25:29,296 --> 00:25:30,987
a little bit more of a natural point guard,

537
00:25:30,987 --> 00:25:32,918
made a big difference for the Toronto
Raptors.

538
00:25:32,918 --> 00:25:34,868
Like he is a big, big difference for them.

539
00:25:34,868 --> 00:25:38,349
Toronto is probably a little bit better
equipped with Scottie Barnes

540
00:25:38,369 --> 00:25:43,590
as a playmaker to absorb Jalen Suggs and use
him as the quote unquote point guard

541
00:25:43,851 --> 00:25:46,441
than Orlando is. Although Paolo Banchero is
a pretty decent passer,

542
00:25:46,441 --> 00:25:49,472
too, although not like a constant
triple-double threat that like Barnes is.

543
00:25:49,472 --> 00:25:55,674
the only problem with that deal is that the
Magic need to cut payroll.

544
00:25:55,674 --> 00:25:56,674
And

545
00:25:57,229 --> 00:26:00,402
This is the last. So like their salaries are
about the same right now.

546
00:26:00,402 --> 00:26:03,654
but Jalen Suggs's contract is front-loaded.

547
00:26:03,654 --> 00:26:07,007
So this is actually the last year where
Suggs is making more than $30 million.

548
00:26:07,007 --> 00:26:12,952
And so the Magic taking on more money and
taking one

549
00:26:12,952 --> 00:26:15,074
and giving up one more player.

550
00:26:15,074 --> 00:26:22,050
I think I don't think the Magic would do
that from a financial aspect because

551
00:26:22,050 --> 00:26:24,202
they just they can't afford.

552
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,292
To take on more payroll and just go like go
deeper into the into the world.

553
00:26:29,292 --> 00:26:33,353
Now, if the Magic are—let's say the Magic
are like the two seed,

554
00:26:33,353 --> 00:26:36,175
Anthony Black clearly needs to be the
starter.

555
00:26:36,175 --> 00:26:38,576
You know, they need a point guard,

556
00:26:38,576 --> 00:26:41,977
they need a point guard type. Something like
this,

557
00:26:41,977 --> 00:26:45,578
and like Jalen Suggs just doesn't look the
same or whatever.

558
00:26:45,578 --> 00:26:49,300
A deal like this might make a little bit
more sense for them.

559
00:26:49,714 --> 00:26:50,714
Mm-hmm.

560
00:26:50,620 --> 00:26:52,971
and again, like I think the basketball stuff
makes sense,

561
00:26:52,971 --> 00:26:54,482
but trades aren't just about basketball.

562
00:26:54,858 --> 00:26:59,063
I you can't separate the Magic in any
decision they make from their finances right

563
00:26:59,063 --> 00:27:04,059
now. And so I find it hard to believe that
they would do a deal that gives

564
00:27:04,059 --> 00:27:07,023
them more that puts more money on their
payroll long term,

565
00:27:07,023 --> 00:27:08,023
which this deal does.

566
00:27:08,582 --> 00:27:11,886
Fair enough. Yeah, that one I'm gonna give
you five trades.

567
00:27:11,886 --> 00:27:15,070
That one I liked maybe fourth out of five.

568
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:16,983
Okay. It is one I've thought about.

569
00:27:15,070 --> 00:27:18,708
I wanna give you yeah.

570
00:27:16,983 --> 00:27:18,935
It I have thought about that 'cause like it
does feel

571
00:27:18,935 --> 00:27:21,208
like Toronto is a little iffy on IQ.

572
00:27:21,860 --> 00:27:26,492
Yeah. both players haven't been able to stay
healthy also,

573
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,040
Toronto fans would not

574
00:27:26,492 --> 00:27:27,492
but

575
00:27:26,972 --> 00:27:29,007
would not love Jalen Suggs.

576
00:27:29,007 --> 00:27:30,430
They hate him already for some reason.

577
00:27:30,430 --> 00:27:31,442
I'm not sure why.

578
00:27:32,699 --> 00:27:35,781
Yeah, I don't I don't I don't know why
either because I think I actually

579
00:27:34,914 --> 00:27:36,354
They took Barnes over him.

580
00:27:36,802 --> 00:27:39,303
I yeah I don't think that looks that bad,

581
00:27:39,303 --> 00:27:43,426
but I think if I'm looking at the trade in a
vacuum,

582
00:27:43,426 --> 00:27:45,337
I think Suggs is the better player still.

583
00:27:45,337 --> 00:27:49,860
So I would and just I think Quickley might
be the better fit for the Magic.

584
00:27:49,860 --> 00:27:51,211
So that's why I suggested that one.

585
00:27:50,134 --> 00:27:51,221
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

586
00:27:52,972 --> 00:27:55,254
okay, the one I didn't like the most,

587
00:27:55,254 --> 00:27:56,535
but I'm still gonna throw it out there.

588
00:27:56,535 --> 00:28:00,297
Anthony Black for Dereck Lively and Morez
Johnson.

589
00:28:00,297 --> 00:28:01,297
And

590
00:28:02,308 --> 00:28:05,102
I think you get rim protection with lively.

591
00:28:05,102 --> 00:28:07,726
Morez Johnson is a there's a lot of upside
there,

592
00:28:07,726 --> 00:28:11,391
but Anthony Black is more proven than both
of those guys.

593
00:28:11,391 --> 00:28:13,604
so tell me your thoughts on that.

594
00:28:12,908 --> 00:28:13,908
Goes back home.

595
00:28:13,618 --> 00:28:20,201
if the if the Magic are not going to re-sign
Anthony Black,

596
00:28:20,201 --> 00:28:23,280
that is a fine deal. you know,

597
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,404
Lively would be a restricted free agent too,

598
00:28:26,404 --> 00:28:30,345
so you'd have to pay him, but you're
probably paying him less

599
00:28:30,345 --> 00:28:31,396
than you would be paying

600
00:28:31,026 --> 00:28:32,026
Mm-hmm.

601
00:28:31,396 --> 00:28:34,182
Anthony Black. Morez Johnson's obviously a
rookie.

602
00:28:34,182 --> 00:28:39,119
The only issue with that deal is I'd want to
see what the other deal

603
00:28:39,119 --> 00:28:40,920
is along with it. You can't have

604
00:28:41,442 --> 00:28:44,324
Dereck Lively, Morez Johnson, Wendell
Carter,

605
00:28:44,324 --> 00:28:45,896
Nikola Vucevic, and Goga Bitadze.

606
00:28:45,896 --> 00:28:48,228
There's got to be a Goga Bitadze trade in
there.

607
00:28:48,228 --> 00:28:50,590
There's maybe a cutting Nikola Vucevic.

608
00:28:50,590 --> 00:28:53,302
There, maybe there's a Wendell Carter trade
because I think Dereck Lively

609
00:28:53,302 --> 00:28:56,034
is a starter. Maybe, maybe you worry about
the Wendell Carter trade like

610
00:28:56,055 --> 00:28:58,367
in the summer, but like there,

611
00:28:58,367 --> 00:29:01,099
there, I'd want to know what the second move
is.

612
00:29:01,099 --> 00:29:02,440
Cause you don't, I don't think you do,

613
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,842
you know, if you're not re-signing Anthony
Black,

614
00:29:04,842 --> 00:29:08,866
go get what you can for him. Dereck Lively
would be a great get if that again

615
00:29:08,866 --> 00:29:09,866
in a vacuum.

616
00:29:09,848 --> 00:29:11,459
Dereck Lively would be a great get.

617
00:29:11,459 --> 00:29:13,070
You know, another restricted free agent,

618
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:15,252
but gonna cost you less than Anthony Black.

619
00:29:15,252 --> 00:29:18,434
That's fine. It checks a box that the Magic
need filled.

620
00:29:18,434 --> 00:29:19,705
They need rim protection.

621
00:29:19,705 --> 00:29:24,409
But I'd want to know what the second move is
that goes along with that because

622
00:29:24,409 --> 00:29:26,240
it doesn't make sense for the current
roster.

623
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,652
And like I said, the Magic need to be
competitive.

624
00:29:29,652 --> 00:29:35,016
Like, I'll let me let me just step back
here.

625
00:29:35,016 --> 00:29:37,048
for the trade stuff.

626
00:29:37,849 --> 00:29:39,731
How the Magic are postured at the trade
deadline,

627
00:29:39,731 --> 00:29:42,323
I think will depend on how their season
turns out.

628
00:29:42,323 --> 00:29:44,735
If they're back in the play-in wringer,

629
00:29:44,735 --> 00:29:46,216
if they're like the nine or the 10 seed,

630
00:29:46,216 --> 00:29:50,219
which is possible, and it doesn't feel like
they're going to compete with

631
00:29:50,219 --> 00:29:52,431
the top teams, they may save like the big,

632
00:29:52,431 --> 00:29:56,554
big trade for the summer. But the Magic can
be okay,

633
00:29:56,554 --> 00:30:01,889
like soft tanking this year. Like the this
year's draft pick is the only draft pick

634
00:30:01,889 --> 00:30:05,512
the Magic have without conditions until
2031.

635
00:30:06,062 --> 00:30:09,904
The 2028 pick goes to Portland through the
Cedric Howard because

636
00:30:09,904 --> 00:30:11,504
of the Cedric Howard trade with Memphis.

637
00:30:11,504 --> 00:30:14,986
Their 2028 pick is a pick swap with Memphis.

638
00:30:14,986 --> 00:30:18,247
And 2029 also goes to sorry,

639
00:30:18,247 --> 00:30:20,368
2029 go is a pick swap with Memphis.

640
00:30:20,368 --> 00:30:25,320
2030 is a top or that is it goes to Memphis
directly,

641
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:26,751
and then 2031 is their own pick.

642
00:30:26,751 --> 00:30:31,823
So if the Magic are gonna have like a
disaster season and decide to like soft tank

643
00:30:31,823 --> 00:30:34,934
a little bit to play up to get one extra
slot in the

644
00:30:35,392 --> 00:30:37,395
lottery and the lottery system that they
have,

645
00:30:37,395 --> 00:30:38,987
which I think would, you know,

646
00:30:38,987 --> 00:30:42,111
this current lottery system is going to
benefit teams that are in

647
00:30:42,111 --> 00:30:46,016
the play in tournament. This would be the
year to kind of soft tank and do that.

648
00:30:46,016 --> 00:30:48,409
Like this would be the only chance the Magic
have to soft tank and do that.

649
00:30:48,409 --> 00:30:50,802
But they need to be able to reset quickly
and be competitive.

650
00:30:51,441 --> 00:30:56,244
Yeah. No, I agree. It d it depends where you
guys are by the trade deadline.

651
00:30:56,244 --> 00:30:59,305
I think you guys wanna see where you are and
in and some of these trades

652
00:30:59,305 --> 00:31:02,867
may even be till after the season.

653
00:31:02,867 --> 00:31:04,458
It just depends. But

654
00:31:02,892 --> 00:31:04,255
Yeah. Yeah.

655
00:31:04,518 --> 00:31:07,689
you know, I looked and I'm like,

656
00:31:07,689 --> 00:31:11,912
you guys need shooting, so let me think of a
big shooter,

657
00:31:11,912 --> 00:31:14,624
you know, a center who could shoot and space
the floor.

658
00:31:14,624 --> 00:31:19,286
I wanna take that back. I think I actually
don't mind this Morez Johnson trade

659
00:31:19,286 --> 00:31:20,286
for you guys.

660
00:31:20,999 --> 00:31:23,741
But what about Myles Turner?

661
00:31:23,741 --> 00:31:27,943
I know it's an ugly contract, but for
Wendell Carter,

662
00:31:27,943 --> 00:31:34,367
Goga, and Tristan da Silva. And Milwaukee
gets to break

663
00:31:34,367 --> 00:31:37,408
up that Turner contract a little bit,

664
00:31:37,408 --> 00:31:39,950
and they get a young player in Tristan da
Silva,

665
00:31:39,950 --> 00:31:45,073
and you guys get spacing. And I think Turner
would actually kind of fit well with

666
00:31:45,073 --> 00:31:47,965
you guys' roster. What do you think about
that trade?

667
00:31:49,027 --> 00:31:52,268
From a basketball fit, I don't absolutely
hate it.

668
00:31:52,268 --> 00:31:56,690
because the criticism of Wendell Carter is
that he's not enough of a rim protector.

669
00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:59,921
Myles Turner is a much better rim protector
and he's still a decent defender.

670
00:31:59,921 --> 00:32:01,492
It's not like he fell off the face of the
earth.

671
00:32:01,492 --> 00:32:05,213
The issue—and the Magic's offense, at least
under Jamahl Mosley—

672
00:32:05,213 --> 00:32:07,554
like Wendell Carter had a tendency to hang
around the perimeter,

673
00:32:07,554 --> 00:32:09,835
and Turner's probably a better shooter
overall,

674
00:32:09,835 --> 00:32:13,536
than him. Maybe Myles Turner coming into

675
00:32:13,536 --> 00:32:17,598
an atmosphere where they're competing and
winning might spark him,

676
00:32:17,598 --> 00:32:18,598
spark him again. But

677
00:32:19,628 --> 00:32:21,439
I kind of see it as a step to the side.

678
00:32:21,439 --> 00:32:25,199
you know, again, like we can't separate the
finances.

679
00:32:25,199 --> 00:32:30,042
I'm not even sure if that deal is legal
because Wendell Carter doesn't make

680
00:32:30,042 --> 00:32:32,093
enough. So the Magic are taking on more
salary here.

681
00:32:32,093 --> 00:32:35,205
Again, every deal the Magic have to do,
because they're a first-apron team,

682
00:32:35,205 --> 00:32:37,496
they have to take back less salary.

683
00:32:37,496 --> 00:32:39,046
They cannot take back more salary.

684
00:32:37,915 --> 00:32:40,257
It would yeah, it would work out.

685
00:32:39,046 --> 00:32:44,689
It would work out okay. It'd be just okay.

686
00:32:40,257 --> 00:32:44,100
You guys would be yeah, you guys would be
giving up more salary,

687
00:32:44,100 --> 00:32:47,643
but you guys would give up yeah.

688
00:32:44,689 --> 00:32:47,430
But still giving up a lot. Like,

689
00:32:47,430 --> 00:32:48,430
like

690
00:32:47,884 --> 00:32:52,486
Goga and Dell is a lot. And I honestly,

691
00:32:52,486 --> 00:32:54,887
like, I think the potential of Myles Turner,

692
00:32:54,887 --> 00:32:56,878
what Myles Turner was two, three years ago,

693
00:32:56,878 --> 00:32:59,579
like that's a jump at it. He's better.

694
00:32:59,579 --> 00:33:01,320
He gives the Magic a lot of the things they
need.

695
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,381
at this point, I think Wendell Carter's as
good,

696
00:33:05,381 --> 00:33:06,792
if not better, than Myles Turner,

697
00:33:06,792 --> 00:33:08,062
especially on the defensive end,

698
00:33:08,062 --> 00:33:09,803
minus the rim protection, obviously.

699
00:33:09,803 --> 00:33:10,803
So

700
00:33:09,959 --> 00:33:10,959
Yeah.

701
00:33:11,704 --> 00:33:13,885
I think I pass on that one,

702
00:33:13,885 --> 00:33:15,226
especially with Turner's contract,

703
00:33:15,226 --> 00:33:16,246
the way that is. The Magic.

704
00:33:15,645 --> 00:33:16,645
Fair enough.

705
00:33:16,461 --> 00:33:17,461
Yeah.

706
00:33:16,578 --> 00:33:17,578
The Magic

707
00:33:17,078 --> 00:33:21,192
just the Magic cannot do anything that puts
them in a worse financial position.

708
00:33:21,192 --> 00:33:25,365
Like any trade they do, it and it's a very
difficult needle to thread,

709
00:33:25,365 --> 00:33:29,929
has to make basketball sense and has to
create some more flexibility for them

710
00:33:29,929 --> 00:33:31,370
to improve their roster.

711
00:33:31,804 --> 00:33:35,295
Yeah. The other one was also a Turner trade,

712
00:33:35,295 --> 00:33:37,366
but since it was just Jamal

713
00:33:36,706 --> 00:33:37,706
Yeah.

714
00:33:37,366 --> 00:33:39,767
Cain instead of Tristan da Silva,

715
00:33:39,767 --> 00:33:40,767
but

716
00:33:39,927 --> 00:33:40,927
Yeah.

717
00:33:40,608 --> 00:33:43,999
okay, let's go to my last one then.

718
00:33:43,999 --> 00:33:46,920
Wendell Carter, Tristan da Silva,

719
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,482
Jase Richardson for Naz Reid. And again,

720
00:33:50,482 --> 00:33:52,623
you guys are giving up more in salary,

721
00:33:52,623 --> 00:33:55,074
but you're giving up two more players so you
guys would have to,

722
00:33:55,074 --> 00:33:56,794
you know, fill up those roster spots.

723
00:33:55,970 --> 00:33:56,970
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

724
00:33:57,475 --> 00:34:00,796
So what do you think about Naz Reid fitting
with the Magic?

725
00:34:02,092 --> 00:34:05,904
I like, I think Naz does a lot of things the
Magic like.

726
00:34:05,904 --> 00:34:08,215
like obviously he's not the defender.

727
00:34:08,215 --> 00:34:09,824
He's not, you know, like he'll defend,

728
00:34:09,824 --> 00:34:12,657
he'll make some plays, but he's not like
that great rim protector.

729
00:34:12,657 --> 00:34:15,578
And, you know, I don't think we know what
he's like as a starter.

730
00:34:15,578 --> 00:34:18,748
Like, does this mean that the Magic are
gonna start Goga Bitadze and keep Reid

731
00:34:18,748 --> 00:34:20,870
off the bench? That's tough to do for a guy
that's about to make

732
00:34:20,870 --> 00:34:23,982
$25 million in 2028. again,

733
00:34:23,922 --> 00:34:26,302
I would start him. I personally would have
to start him.

734
00:34:23,982 --> 00:34:26,543
yeah, I'd probably

735
00:34:26,543 --> 00:34:28,873
start him too, but I'd be curious what that

736
00:34:29,016 --> 00:34:30,938
does to the Magic's defense. And again,

737
00:34:30,938 --> 00:34:34,310
we gotta see what the Magic's defense
actually is going to look like

738
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:36,402
and where Sweeney's going to change things.

739
00:34:36,402 --> 00:34:39,054
Like what, you know, how's that going to
play out?

740
00:34:39,054 --> 00:34:42,956
you know, when like I know it sounds weird
to a lot of people,

741
00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:45,308
Wendell Carter makes a lot of things work
defensively.

742
00:34:45,308 --> 00:34:47,071
He is a really solid defender.

743
00:34:47,071 --> 00:34:48,922
He doesn't like do the loud stuff.

744
00:34:48,030 --> 00:34:49,030
He's good. Yeah.

745
00:34:48,942 --> 00:34:51,563
He doesn't do the loud stuff. He doesn't
block a ton of shots.

746
00:34:51,563 --> 00:34:55,667
He's not out there just like gobbling up
rebounds and putting up these crazy stat

747
00:34:55,667 --> 00:34:57,069
numbers. But when you watch him play,

748
00:34:57,069 --> 00:34:58,730
it's just like he is in the right spot

749
00:34:58,986 --> 00:35:02,067
every single time. He can hold his own on
the perimeter.

750
00:35:02,067 --> 00:35:04,648
There's just there's so few centers that can
do that.

751
00:35:04,648 --> 00:35:09,269
And so, you know, I think Naz Reid is
probably a better player

752
00:35:09,269 --> 00:35:11,880
and probably boost the offense a little bit
more and maybe

753
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:13,890
the Magic feel comfortable enough to do
that.

754
00:35:13,890 --> 00:35:19,632
I think we still gotta it might depend how
he's playing with Charlotte,

755
00:35:19,632 --> 00:35:21,982
whether I do this or not. to say,

756
00:35:21,982 --> 00:35:24,713
like, okay, he is killing it in Charlotte,

757
00:35:24,713 --> 00:35:27,234
he is clearly a starting center.

758
00:35:27,648 --> 00:35:29,399
Minnesota was keeping him buried on the
bench.

759
00:35:29,399 --> 00:35:31,140
This dude, this dude can play and start,

760
00:35:31,140 --> 00:35:33,301
then I might do that deal. Otherwise,

761
00:35:33,301 --> 00:35:36,373
I'm kind of holding off just because there's
just too much at play right

762
00:35:36,373 --> 00:35:41,476
now for Orlando to take that to take a swing
like that and not reduce

763
00:35:41,476 --> 00:35:44,378
pay not significantly reduce their future
payroll.

764
00:35:44,378 --> 00:35:45,599
It's not necessarily about this year's
payroll,

765
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:47,290
it's future payroll. Like Wendell

766
00:35:46,676 --> 00:35:47,676
Mm-hmm.

767
00:35:47,290 --> 00:35:49,071
Carter is gonna make twenty million dollars
next year.

768
00:35:49,071 --> 00:35:53,383
Naz Reid's at twenty-five. So you're
essentially taking on five million more
dollars

769
00:35:53,383 --> 00:35:54,383
for a starter. So

770
00:35:54,735 --> 00:35:57,097
I might want to know what the other what the
other moves are going to be.

771
00:35:57,097 --> 00:35:59,499
Like I've kind of thought that the move,

772
00:35:59,499 --> 00:36:05,023
the move of like Jalen Suggs is like take
back a shorter term bad contract

773
00:36:05,023 --> 00:36:08,756
and try and get a prospect out of it—that's
the

774
00:36:08,756 --> 00:36:09,887
guy that you're actually after.

775
00:36:09,887 --> 00:36:12,792
Like it's the Magic are in a tough position
for trades.

776
00:36:12,792 --> 00:36:15,732
They're gonna have to do some at some point
and take a gamble somewhere.

777
00:36:15,732 --> 00:36:19,145
Maybe this is a good gamble. and it's
probably a better gamble than anything we've

778
00:36:19,145 --> 00:36:22,888
talked about so far. But I'd I'd still be a
little bit concerned about some

779
00:36:22,888 --> 00:36:23,888
things.

780
00:36:23,752 --> 00:36:28,133
Yeah. All fair. I mean, I think like we've
said,

781
00:36:28,133 --> 00:36:31,504
I wanna see what this team looks like before
we go into trades,

782
00:36:31,504 --> 00:36:35,275
but I just wanted to throw some out there in
case the season isn't going that well

783
00:36:35,295 --> 00:36:39,276
and then you know, you just never know.

784
00:36:39,276 --> 00:36:40,346
There's trade there's

785
00:36:39,885 --> 00:36:40,885
Yeah.

786
00:36:40,346 --> 00:36:43,417
gonna be teams that are gonna make trades
because the season's not going

787
00:36:43,417 --> 00:36:46,418
the way they thought it was. And hopefully
that's not the Magic,

788
00:36:46,418 --> 00:36:48,539
but you know you just never know.

789
00:36:48,539 --> 00:36:52,880
what would a successful season look like?

790
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:53,880
And

791
00:36:54,044 --> 00:36:57,467
You know, this is the last question I have
for you because

792
00:36:58,468 --> 00:37:00,850
I just wanna know like if you mentioned
earlier,

793
00:37:00,850 --> 00:37:04,734
like if the team wins a playoff series,

794
00:37:04,734 --> 00:37:06,726
would that count as a successful season?

795
00:37:07,958 --> 00:37:10,950
Yeah, obviously like I think it'd be a
successful season because that's what
they've

796
00:37:10,950 --> 00:37:12,601
been chasing after for the last three years.

797
00:37:12,601 --> 00:37:15,383
Like they got to game seven against
Cleveland in twenty-four.

798
00:37:15,383 --> 00:37:18,486
And like Paolo said it, like, we're hungry
for more.

799
00:37:18,486 --> 00:37:20,157
He said it after that game, we're hungry for
more.

800
00:37:20,157 --> 00:37:21,207
Like I would tell people, like,

801
00:37:21,207 --> 00:37:24,059
well, if you got to a game seven in the
first round,

802
00:37:24,059 --> 00:37:27,142
like the obvious next step is you win that
game seven in the first round

803
00:37:27,142 --> 00:37:30,884
and you advance. Well, Magic got back to a
game seven in the first round last year,

804
00:37:30,884 --> 00:37:32,736
and now the obvious thing is, well,

805
00:37:32,736 --> 00:37:35,558
now you gotta advance. Now you gotta take
that next step.

806
00:37:36,983 --> 00:37:38,484
I think more importantly, though,

807
00:37:38,484 --> 00:37:40,746
the bigger goal for the Magic,

808
00:37:40,746 --> 00:37:43,338
especially with where their payroll is at.

809
00:37:43,338 --> 00:37:46,161
Again, they're like $2.5 million under the
second apron.

810
00:37:46,161 --> 00:37:49,153
They're one of the top five most expensive
payrolls in the league right now.

811
00:37:49,153 --> 00:37:51,675
they're second or third, I think,

812
00:37:51,675 --> 00:37:56,139
actually. they need to have a clear path to
a championship.

813
00:37:56,139 --> 00:37:59,071
And that doesn't mean like they're winning a
championship this year.

814
00:37:59,071 --> 00:38:01,783
It doesn't mean they're winning a
championship even necessarily next year.

815
00:38:01,783 --> 00:38:04,483
It's just knowing

816
00:38:05,048 --> 00:38:08,161
Paolo Banchero and Franz Wagner are players
that can lead us

817
00:38:08,161 --> 00:38:11,163
to the championship tier. That if like
everything breaks right for us,

818
00:38:11,163 --> 00:38:14,146
which, you know, it the playoffs are much
more of a crapshoot than they've ever

819
00:38:14,146 --> 00:38:16,828
been. If everything breaks right for us,

820
00:38:16,828 --> 00:38:21,302
if we play our best, these are two players
that can get us into

821
00:38:21,302 --> 00:38:23,374
the Eastern Conference Finals, into the NBA
Finals,

822
00:38:23,374 --> 00:38:27,297
can take us to that level. That's the
biggest thing I think they want to see.

823
00:38:27,297 --> 00:38:28,297
Cause

824
00:38:28,426 --> 00:38:30,387
If you're just rearranging role players,

825
00:38:30,387 --> 00:38:32,028
like you can rearrange role players,

826
00:38:32,028 --> 00:38:34,650
you can find the right mix of guys around
them.

827
00:38:34,650 --> 00:38:37,883
It's just knowing these are the guys we
should be building around and these

828
00:38:37,883 --> 00:38:39,243
are the guys that can lead us there.

829
00:38:39,243 --> 00:38:43,096
And so getting to the second round
absolutely would be proof that okay,

830
00:38:43,096 --> 00:38:44,747
we're back on the right track.

831
00:38:44,747 --> 00:38:46,248
We've kind of reclaimed our future.

832
00:38:46,248 --> 00:38:48,520
We've now proven and shown that we can do
this,

833
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,512
that we can win this thing. Cause right now
all they've proven and shown

834
00:38:51,512 --> 00:38:52,763
is they can get to the playoffs,

835
00:38:52,763 --> 00:38:55,845
which is great. Like considering this Magic
franchise since Dwight Howard,

836
00:38:55,845 --> 00:38:57,556
you know, spent 10, you know, spent

837
00:38:57,752 --> 00:39:00,504
12 years lost in the wilderness with only
two playoff appearances.

838
00:39:00,504 --> 00:39:03,496
Now it feels like we're in the playoffs
every year.

839
00:39:03,496 --> 00:39:05,047
We expect to be in the playoffs every year.

840
00:39:05,047 --> 00:39:09,050
That's the bare minimum. That's like last
season could not have gotten worse

841
00:39:09,050 --> 00:39:13,423
for Orlando in many ways. They still won 45
games, were the eight seed,

842
00:39:13,423 --> 00:39:15,374
you know, we're a couple games away from
doing,

843
00:39:15,374 --> 00:39:16,985
you know, we're a game out of fifth.

844
00:39:16,985 --> 00:39:20,468
Like they weren't far from like even for an
injury filled season,

845
00:39:20,468 --> 00:39:22,599
being like, okay, well, like we still
scrambled.

846
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:25,171
We got to five. We gave ourselves a chance
against Cleveland,

847
00:39:25,171 --> 00:39:26,732
whatever.

848
00:39:27,928 --> 00:39:33,411
The Magic have to kind of show that they're
on the right path where they

849
00:39:33,411 --> 00:39:34,962
can be one of those elite teams.

850
00:39:34,962 --> 00:39:38,614
otherwise they really gotta cut payroll and
regain some flexibility

851
00:39:38,614 --> 00:39:41,806
and you know, they don't have their draft
they don't have their draft picks anymore.

852
00:39:41,806 --> 00:39:43,927
So they'll have a lot of things to figure
out

853
00:39:43,927 --> 00:39:46,939
if they're if they exit the season realizing
we're stuck in

854
00:39:46,939 --> 00:39:49,150
the treadmill of mediocrity and we can't get
out.

855
00:39:49,938 --> 00:39:53,230
Yeah. Well, it's gonna be fun.

856
00:39:53,230 --> 00:39:54,690
I'm looking forward to the season.

857
00:39:54,690 --> 00:39:57,512
I'm sure you are too. And you know,

858
00:39:57,512 --> 00:39:59,723
success isn't always linear. You know,

859
00:39:59,723 --> 00:40:02,194
I've learned that being a Kings fan.

860
00:40:02,194 --> 00:40:05,295
You know, we had one good year being with
the beam team.

861
00:40:02,914 --> 00:40:07,058
Yeah. Yeah. You always worry that

862
00:40:05,295 --> 00:40:06,295
But

863
00:40:07,058 --> 00:40:08,659
everything's just a flash in the pan.

864
00:40:08,659 --> 00:40:10,221
Like it's just like, okay, you did it once.

865
00:40:10,221 --> 00:40:11,722
Now you gotta do it again.

866
00:40:12,294 --> 00:40:14,927
Yeah. I don't think that's the case with
this Magic team.

867
00:40:14,927 --> 00:40:18,592
I am excited to see them and I believe in
Franz and Paolo long term.

868
00:40:18,592 --> 00:40:21,856
And we'll see if that's if that's the case.

869
00:40:21,856 --> 00:40:23,999
I wanna thank you for your time,

870
00:40:23,999 --> 00:40:27,404
Philip. And why don't you tell the people
where they could find you?

871
00:40:28,226 --> 00:40:31,970
Yeah, the best place to find my written work
is over at Orlando Magic Daily dot com.

872
00:40:31,970 --> 00:40:33,823
And you can check me out five days a week,

873
00:40:33,823 --> 00:40:36,866
Monday through Friday, covering Orlando
Magic on Locked On Magic if you

874
00:40:36,866 --> 00:40:40,551
if you just can't get enough of this
way-too-into-

875
00:40:40,551 --> 00:40:41,551
the-weeds Magic talk.

876
00:40:42,599 --> 00:40:45,561
It's a great podcast. I recommend if you're
a Magic fan,

877
00:40:45,561 --> 00:40:49,114
please check it out. Philip, I want to thank
you once again for coming on,

878
00:40:49,114 --> 00:40:51,235
and I will talk to you guys next time.

879
00:40:51,235 --> 00:40:52,235
Peace.