The Ambitious Introvert – Episode 81 – Constant improvement with Jordan Schanda King
Emma-Louise: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the ambitious Introvert podcast. I'm Emma-Louise and I'm joined today by the lovely Jordan. Now, first off before I say anything, I'm going to hand over to you Jordan, to introduce yourself and tell my audience a little bit about you and your business.
Jordan: Yeah.
Okay, great. So I own a contract CEO agency called easy scaling. This is my third and newest business. It's still kind of in its infancy. And we do full business management for female entrepreneurs.
Emma-Louise: I love it. And I want that to be out before we said we connected over Instagram but not in the way that people might necessarily expect.
So I think we'd kind of been in each other's circles. I think you had worked with a coach that I'd had as a guest on the podcast and various things. So I think it senior and Facebook groups and things, [00:01:00] but I just remember you messaged me one day on Instagram and you were. I just listened to your latest podcast episode and I'm, I'm done with Instagram.
I'm deleting.
Jordan: Yup. Yup. You gave me the permission. I can't remember which episode it was, maybe the one with Julia
Emma-Louise: I think it
was with Julie
Julie, but I don't know what Julia and I would have said too. I don't know. Julia was probably like, do whatever you want.
Jordan: Yeah. I was like, oh, I can do that. Okay. Well I'm done.
Emma-Louise: So what, what, what was it about, okay.
We don't know maybe what it was about the episode, but. what had been kind of bubbling up for you around Instagram. And I'm interested in this because I know a lot of people struggle with that platform
Jordan: yeah, I think for me, what kept happening is I would try to be consistent and then I would get kind of burnt out.
It was like little mini cycles of burnout and every time it would happen. I would, it was because I was feeling like, okay, I have to do it this way. So I have to buy this reels course and I [00:02:00] have to buy this course on this. And I have to figure out all the things I have to be doing everything perfectly, or it's not worth my time to show up on this platform.
And I was just totally exhausted. I was like, well, maybe I just don't have to be on it at all.
Emma-Louise: That's easier. It is it's feedback. I hear all the time. I know a lot of people struggle with that. And I think because it is such a fast moving. You know, there's always new things coming out. There's always something to learn.
Like you say, it's like, oh, it's reels and it's this. And then it's, it's this think you could spend a full-time job just trying to maintain like a presence on Instagram yeah,
Jordan: absolutely. Yeah. And I am, you know, I am back on it, but, in a very different way than I was on it before. So it's, I think it took me getting off of it completely to realize I could come back and just do it in the way that I wanted to do it.
You know,
Emma-Louise: you needed to cold Turkey. Yeah. Yeah. I did the, I had a burnout from Instagram or back in [00:03:00] 2020. I took about two months off it, but when I came back. I mean, it wasn't just Instagram to be fair. lets not blame the platform, I didn't have a clue who my ideal client was. So creating in any kind of content was quite exhausting and useless.
But when I came back, I did know who my ideal client was. And I unfollowed so many people and muted a lot as well because I was, I was consuming so much and then I would get really tired because there's consuming creating anything. So I had, I think sometimes when you have complete break from something, you can come back with fresh.
eyes
Jordan: Yeah, absolutely. And I have tried to set boundaries with it for certain things. And I, I find that I'm more of, I'm more of an all or nothing kind of person and like, oh, I'll only be on there for, you know, 20 minutes a day. I just couldn't, I couldn't do it that way. It didn't work.
Emma-Louise: No. Well, there you go live and learn and leads us perfectly into one of the main things we're going to discuss today.
And what I loved when you filled out the form for the podcast is this idea of your zone of genius being [00:04:00] constant improvements. And that really, it was like, Ooh. do you know your human design by.
Jordan: I don't
Emma-Louise: know. Okay. So my profile is a one three, which means it basically constant improvement. The one is like, you want to keep learning and understanding and know more.
And then three is like, you have to go and actually live it before you believe it. So you have to kind of try it out. So can be quite exhausting, but, but it's also fun. And, so yeah, so that really piqued my interest because. I see that as positive, but I can also see how the shadow of it can hold us back as entrepreneurs.
So we'll come back to that. But first of all, tell us a little bit about your story because you, you didn't just start an online business and like plug and play and off you go, you've got a really varied background.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's taken me almost a decade to get to where I am now, which is what feels like I finally made it.
I'm doing what [00:05:00] I love to do. It's working. It feels easy, but, that has definitely not always been the case. my first business, I started with my mom by complete accident almost a decade ago. It was in college and scholarship prep. And I think a lot of. A lot of entrepreneurs start businesses on accident because you know, they see a need or they create something and it's like, well, I guess, you know, people need to know this or I can help people with this.
Uh, so it was very much one of those situations where, you know, we had this personal experience with me applying to college and getting scholarships and my mom being on the other side of that and reviewing scholarships on scholarship review boards, and then having a younger brother coming up, who, who was.
Not the same type of student that I was. And we knew that he was going to need more help with the process. So we tried to create this system, talk about constant improvement. That's kind of just how our brains work is. Everything can be put kind of in a system there's a right way to do things. I'm an [00:06:00] Enneagram one.
And so we created this system and then found that all of these parents were like, wait, what do you mean? Isn't, isn't the school doing this for us? Like, what do you mean we have to do this? I ended up creating this business that I had for sevenish years and then sold it to a nonprofit.
Emma-Louise: Wow. So quiet a different start
yes. And then where did you go from there? You sold the business. How did you go from that? To where we are now?
Jordan: So that, that business really. Thrust me into this online, you know, digital business space, female entrepreneurs, all of that. And I didn't, I always tell everyone, like, I didn't know. Anything about running a business, let alone like an online business.
I didn't know what a freebie was like funnels weren't even really like things back then. I mean, they were, but nobody was talking about them and, email lists and I was just [00:07:00] totally fresh and new and had no idea what I was doing. So we learned all of that. The hard way. Through the years and the more I got into it, the more that I really loved that community.
Jordan: And so I ended up starting a second business by accident
Emma-Louise: iI wonder what we are going to name this episode.
Jordan: Um, so I met, someone who's a very, very good friend of mine now. I ended up being the co-founder of the second business of mine. We met at a networking event and we were both just like, totally this enchanted with local networking, we wanted more support. We wanted really intimate, like in-person support for female entrepreneurs and it wasn't a thing.
And so we're like, let's start a mastermind. Like I have people are doing this, they're doing it online. Like we can totally bring a group of women together and support each other. And so we did, and then that ended up blossoming into. This business where we were doing, I guess, coaching, [00:08:00] coaching women on how to create masterminds and group programs.
And again was totally accidental and how we pivoted into that. And, uh, eventually decided that we wanted to pursue our own strengths, which was great. I mean, I always tell people I've had two partnerships. Both of which have ended, but have ended so beautifully and easily and on great terms, which is great because one of my business partners was my mom.
So that's great. and so, you know, I really wanted to lean more into the things that I love to do, which are being in the weeds, being in the details, doing the implementation. If anyone's read the book rocket fuel, you know, and you've heard of this concept of a visionary and integrator, I am an integrator through and through.
I mean, I have definitely some visionary tendencies and which is why I love to run my own business, but, I love being an integrator. And so I wanted to lean into that. Where this new business, the first business I've started by [00:09:00] myself and the first business I've started on purpose.
Emma-Louise: Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah. Third time's the charm.
Emma-Louise: But what I think is so true and you know, the online space can really make us think everything happens straight away, overnight, you know, all of this, and that's not to say that it, that it can't happen very quickly and, and it can, but you wouldn't be where you are now, if you hadn't had those other experiences.
Jordan: Yeah, a hundred percent. And even the experiences that I've had in. In my nine to five, I've worked in non-profit spaces for also almost a decade since I was out of school. And, even those experiences I find have been so valuable in how I do things and the things that I choose not to do as well. and, and so, yeah, I think.
Even though, I think I'm kind of lucky in that I've experienced both sides of that. Like the very quick growth with my newest business and like, feeling like I'm very aligned and things [00:10:00] worked very fast, but I've also experienced the, oh wait, but this took me a decade to get to, you know?
Emma-Louise: Yeah. I, I definitely had some mindset stuff around because when I bought my business online, I was a coach, but I didn't know anything about business.
So I knew that I knew how to coach I've been doing that for years. And I had all of that experience, but business, I was clueless, like completely clueless. actually I started this brand by accident. I never planned to be a business coach, but as an introvert empire, highly sensitive, then coming online to bring a business online.
I realized that there was a gap because no one was catering for people like us that needed maybe to take things a bit slower or, you know, digest things in a different way. So this is kind of accident kind of accidental as well. But, you know, I remember feeling like my business wasn't growing quickly enough and talking to my coach about it.
And she's because I felt like I'd been trying to do it for [00:11:00] years because it been in my mind for. You know, 18 months before I'd even come online. And then I come online and I just like done loads of research because I'm a one. And then I finally like joined a group program and then, and then I changed like niche complete and all of this.
And in my mind, it's not working because day one was the actual day one. And she was like, no day one is the day that you went, oh, I'm actually going to be a business coach for introverts. Like that is your day one. And if I look at that now my growth has been really fast.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I think people definitely underestimate and overlook and undervalue all of that, foundational work to get where you want to be.
Emma-Louise: So we're going to talk about constant improvement, which I find very exciting. And as I said, the shadow of that, and you touched on it yourself as well, is the, when is good enough enough? So you said about like the Instagram thing. Where like, oh, I [00:12:00] want it to be perfect. I wanted to get it all. All right.
And do it perfectly. So it does actually like, kind of don't bother because it's never right now, this isn't the focus, but. Like, I love to improve and I love to learn, and I know a lot of my audience do, and especially when they care deeply about a topic or passionate about it, but how do you balance that? Like constant improvement with, okay, this is good enough to run with and I can keep learning kind of alongside it.
Jordan: Oh, man. I definitely feel the double edge of, of this, because like I said, I'm an Enneagram one so I have to work really hard, not to frame everything as being right and wrong know, so there's a right way to do things. And this is really it's benefited me in so many ways because. ' I think that does drive the constant improvement for me, because I'm always looking for ways [00:13:00] to tweak and change and adjust and improve everything that I do.
Like big picture, but also like the teeny tiny minutia of things that I'm doing. Which is why I think it's my zone of genius and my superpower, but, it can be, it can be exhausting if you, if you go too far with it. And, you know, I think about some of the conversations that I have with one of my coaches and.
It's like, well, I'm either, I'm either hitting my max goal or I'm a failure. Like those are the two options sometimes that I see. And she's like, now wait a minute. Let's like put all of this in context and think about like, what have you actually done? Let's look at the evidence, you know? Cause otherwise it is.
You can get in that trap of just continuing to, to stack your goals and, always be improving everything and, and never taking the time to look and see like, oh my gosh, this is what I've done, you know? and so [00:14:00] I think, I think one of, one of the things that I've really tried to do when it comes to trying things in my business is to actually try them.
And I have. My grandpa to thank for this. And I don't talk about him very often, but he, he is just like the wisest person in the world, I think. And he told me very, very early on in my life, I was super young. He's like, you know, decisions are like clothes. Sometimes you have to try them on to know if you like them or not.
And so that, that has really helped me that like kind of mantra and framing of I'm not going to know if it's perfect, perfect in quotes. Right. I'm not going to know if it works until I try it and that's going to be the way that I'm going to get the evidence to know if I need to then adjust. And so never waiting until I feel like it's perfect and it looks perfect on paper, but actually just getting it out there as quickly as possible, whatever it is and [00:15:00] offer copy or anything, and trying it, and then tweaking from there.
Emma-Louise: I love him.
Jordan: Yeah, he's the best.
Emma-Louise: He'd make a great
coach.
Jordan: I know he would.
Emma-Louise: That's a great analogy,
but it's so true. I mean, I think about things that I have spent wasted so much time over, you know, like I can go create this great product and I've done all this stuff and I've written a sales page and I've just invested so much into it.
And then I've put it out. It hasn't done that. Well, I'm like, oh, and then I've made it mean something about me, which it doesn't the, one of the most profitable things I ever did in my business. I just had this like ping of intuition. And I was like, oh, I'm going to do that. I've made this plan to launch a group with my coach.
And I was like, I don't want to launch a group I wanna launch your mastermind. And I just went back to her. I was like, I don't, I don't want to do a group. I want to do a mastermind. [00:16:00] Okay. I was like, I just want three people in it do it. I'll just email my list. And I emailed my list and 10 people applied and I ended up running two pods of it.
And from that people have gone on to work one-on-one with me, some people applied and then we're like, oh wait, could I just get an intensive instead? Like, it was insane, but that, you know, there's no predicting. Like you say, until you try, you just don't know what's going
to happen.
Jordan: It's the only way to get evidence is to try.
That's the only way
Emma-Louise: as a one. Do
you, I don't talk too much about the Enneagram on here. Maybe I should get an Enneagram specialist on, but as a one, do you want that data for evidence to be like, I can see a metric. I can see it's working.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. and I want it immediately, which is that's the problem I want to know immediately.
And so I get impatient. I'm an impatient one. I don't know if everyone is impatient, but I definitely am.
Emma-Louise: [00:17:00] Patience has been a journey for me. Most of my friends would say that I'm not very patient. My clients will say that I'm patient, but I think it's a different capacity when you know, and there for the needs.
But, I, I am not very patient either. I am the person that would, I, I worked through a lot of this, but like send an email and then like half an hour later, look and see if anyones read it
I'm a metric checker.
Half of my email list, probably asleep cause like different times, like for a start, but is that I think we can very much when we're running a business gets so stuck on our own timescale and when we want things to happen and not realize that everyone else has got there timescale as well.
Yeah,
Jordan: for sure.
Emma-Louise: So. Obviously you identify as an introvert. Do you identify as an intuitive introvert? [00:18:00]
Jordan: I have just recently. Really embraced that. and I've worked a lot with, I have a couple of coaches, but one of them that I've, I've worked with a lot on this is around just trusting my gut. And this goes with pretty much every decision that I make in my business, but especially like the clients that I select, and things like that.
And I found that. I have a pretty keen sense on how things are going to go, almost always, but it's taken me a long time to. To get to trusting that. And I'm so lucky that I have her because she's really helped pull that out of me and allow me to lean into it. And then when I don't do it, it's always great when I don't do it.
And then I look back and I'm like, oh no, I knew I wasn't supposed to do that. And I did it anyway and now I'm paying for it. And so now I'm going to trust my gut even more the next time,
Emma-Louise: which is still data and evidence. It's just not in the form of metrics. It's just the [00:19:00] way for you to look and be like, Hmm, I think it's so easy for us to.
I can say lose in inverted commas our intuition or lose touch with it. you know, especially people come from a corporate background where it's not the kind of the, you can't say like, oh, I just feel like this would be a better direction for this project. You know, they, they want proof, they want data.
and even depending on where you are in the business, like you say, you're more of an integrator, so it is more about structure and systems and all of that. But I think it's important to know theres always room for intuition, like it was probably your intuition that said I need to get off Instagram. Yeah. Like let's just, let's just take some.
Jordan: Yeah. And, and if I think about it, if I think about that even more like going back years and years, and like when I quit my nine to five and like all these different decisions that I've made that have been pretty big decisions, it's definitely been based on a feeling like I do a lot around like my logical brain.
Like I run spreadsheets. I do all the [00:20:00] things all the time. but all of those big decisions come usually come down to. Like, how does it feel? Does it feel heavy or does it feel light? And that's like, pretty much the only question I ever need to ask myself to know. What I should do.
Emma-Louise: I love that. And I think when you relate it to something like the density of energy, like, does it feel heavy?
Does it feel like everyone has that concept of when something feels like that there's a really easy way to check it rather than worrying about like, is it perfect? Is it going to work long-term and you know, I don't have the data. I don't have the evidence is knowing that, like, I've got this feeling about how it feels right now.
Jordan: Yeah. And having a light for. I think I used to get them confused a little bit with like hard and easy. They're very different. They're very different because sometimes a lot of the things that I do like is scary and is going to be hard. but it still feels lighter than the other decision. If that makes sense like that, that's what I've like [00:21:00] honed in on.
It may be different for other people. Like the, how it actually feels like physically. But for me, it's definitely been heavy and light.
Emma-Louise: The thing with heavy for me is there are tasks that have to be done in my business that are easy. I'm going to say inverted commas again, but they're heavy for me. Like they've, they're very easy.
They can replicate them. They are repetitive. Task, but they're not in my zone of genius. You know, they're the kind of zone of competence things. And it's like, oh, and it's funny, you mentioned like the visionary integrator, one of my clients like huge visionary, massive visionary. And she hired an OBM for the first time.
And she was like, But she's going to do like all of these awful tasks and it's like, but she loves that your OBM loves that. Like she's the integrator. That's exactly what, and my client could [00:22:00] not, she always felt at least literally had this disconnect. She was like, how can she enjoy like scheduling email and how can she enjoy like doing the spreadsheet with whatever I say, because she's not, you know, she's completely different to you.
I think it's interesting to know that like your worst nightmare is someone else's dream and they get paid to do it. Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah. That's crazy. Wish we could all just lean into that.
Emma-Louise: Yes, it's so true. I look at a lot of my clients. They're like creatives and designers. I'm not the most creative person and I just go, Ooh, no, no, thank you.
It's all. But then they go, I couldn't coach people. So I guess it works both ways.
Jordan: Yeah. I found out that I'm not the greatest coach. I think this is probably my one, but I'm like, let me just tell you how to do it. Just do this, actually just let me do it for you.
Emma-Louise: I was going to say, if you're in, like, here do this category, [00:23:00] then you probably great mentor.
But when it's like the, let me do it for you. It's like, okay. Yeah, I love it. I think it's just so important to highlight. Everyone's got different skills. Everyone's got different talents and everyone enjoys different things. Like my OBM she's like, I love what I do, but she literally just adores being behind people's businesses and everything that, that comes with that she doesn't really like the forward facing stuff.
She's got no interest in being on social media, any of that, but she's like, oh, give me all of the like tech and everything behind the scenes and she's happy.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like. Again, like it, it took so long for me to figure out what I wanted to do. And I think it's because I enjoy both. And, you know, so I mentioned, I, I feel pretty far on the integrator scale, but I also feel like I have a lot of that, those visionary tendencies.
And I do, [00:24:00] I do like to be the face of what I do and I love, you know, sales calls and like all of this stuff and that I. I would hate not to be able to do all of those things. And I love the managing of the team. And it's just, it's not, it's not what I'm doing now is not even something that I knew was a thing.
Like I didn't even know that it was possible. and so I, you know, I keep, I keep kind of like thinking on that on, especially in the space that we're in this online business space is it feels like. There's only a few options, you know, like you're a coach or you're a VA or you're a graphic designer, or you're a copywriter and it's like here, your pick, pick your, your bucket, you know?
and so I don't, I honestly, I wish I had some advice, but I don't, I just, I want people to know that there, there are like so many options and you can do. You can totally make [00:25:00] this all up. And I wish someone would have told me that sooner.
Emma-Louise: Yeah. I T I totally sign off on that. I have come across in the last three and a bit years, I have come across some of the most niche businesses that you think, how can that, like, how can there be a need for that?
And then not only is there a need for it, but they are so profitable because they're in their category of one. And doing the absolute best at what they do, but I get time and time again. This has happened to me. So I'm glad you said that. Cause I do think people feel they've got to, I know that when I came online and I was more focused on life and mindset coaching, and I had a coach that was like, no, you need to work with entrepreneurs because only business coaches make money.
And I was like,
Jordan: wow. I've paid lots of other coaches. So that can't be true.
Emma-Louise: Yeah, exactly. You know, funny now look in my client, I've got, I think one business coach plan [00:26:00] and that's it like no one else and they're making money. So I'm like, I didn't think that was strictly true, but, yeah, I think when you give yourself.
Freedom to be creative. And, you know, I say everyone's so unique and individual, but everyone's journey is as well. So like, if you hadn't been on your journey of having the businesses that you've had, you wouldn't have the skillset or you wouldn't have seen the opportunity for what you do now.
Jordan: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it's the second business that I had, with my business partner, Cassie, and that really hit home the integrator side of things, because she was like visionary through and through. And if you know Enneagram, she was an Enneagram seven, so we're complete opposites. And it almost pushed me even more into that role.
And I was like, This is actually quite easy for me. I could do this like all the time.
Emma-Louise: I love it. And again, you know, until you tried it, you didn't know that you would enjoy it. It's I think so many people get caught up on. [00:27:00] Making the right decision and not making a mistake. And, you know, as a society, obviously there in the states, as well as here in the UK, but there's so much on getting it right.
First time you, you know, you need to pass first time in to get an, a plus, or you need to like all of this. And our society and our education, we don't say go and experiment and try and just see what maybe, you know, some more progressive schools like Montessori schools and things. But, but generally it's like, you know, you did good or you did bad and that's it.
And if you didn't get it right first time you failed and its like, oh, and I just see women that come with. Amazing skillsets, brilliant backgrounds, but they so scared to do something in case it's wrong. And it's like, it can't be wrong because even if it's not the right thing, long-term, you will have learned something from it.
Jordan: Yeah. I think at least big picture, you could frame constant improvement really as constant [00:28:00] failure, like the same thing. and I think about, you know, I feel so fortunate and what I've been able to build so quickly with my new business. But if, I think back to a year ago today, well, about a year ago, I was still in a nine to five and I was experimenting with all kinds of offers, you know, to get out of my nine to five.
And it feels like it was years and years and years ago. I think that's because I tried so many different things in that first six months of 20, 21, like I just threw everything at the wall, like, okay, I'm a mentor. And like, okay, now I do this and now I do this and now I'm running this group program. And really just like you said, experimenting and trying to figure out what felt easy for me.
or what felt light. but yeah, again, it all, I, I. It just goes back to you. You've just, you've just got to try it.
Emma-Louise: So before we wrap up, what do you love about this business? The, you, [00:29:00] you haven't had previously, is there something about it? that, you just feel that like, oh, I'm home.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like I said, you know, I shouldn't call myself a bad coach, but I really do think that don't thrive in that role.
And, but I like to do that type of work. Like I like, like you said, maybe we'll call it mentor, or consultant. I mean, there's a lot of different words, you know, people throw around, but for me, living in the big picture strategy and actually partnering with CEOs to make decisions on how to do things in their business.
Instead of, you know, you think of an OBM role, which is kind of like there's some strategy for sure. Involved, for OBMs. but I feel like I get to actually show up, you know, as a CEO, as a partner, to someone who is this big picture, visionary and kind of balance them out and ground them so that we can make concrete decisions about what we're going to do.
And then. [00:30:00] I get to actually make sure it gets done at the quality and the level that I expect it, which is very high again, because Enneagram one, but I don't have to actually do it. So, you know, I have a team of like a dozen women and so they all do it. And then I just get to see it come together.
I don't know. It's just, I feel so, so fortunate.
Emma-Louise: So, and just for anyone that's listening before we move on to your book recommendation, I'm just going to recap that that you've been in business 10 years. You've tried a lot of different things a year ago. You're in your nine to five and now you have a team of 12 women.
Jordan: Yeah. Okay. So, so it happens really fast, after 10 years,
Emma-Louise: the overnight success that took 10 years.
Jordan: Exactly.
Emma-Louise: So I know you are a listener, so you will know that I'm going to ask you to recommend a book that any introverts empaths and highly sensitive entrepreneurs who are either looking to start grow or scale their online business could benefit from reading.[00:31:00]
Mm
Jordan: Hmm. Okay. Besides listening to murder, she wrote at night to fall asleep. and if you don't listen to that, you should on audio. Uh, there's so many good ones. And I think some of these have been mentioned, but has the book built to sell? been mentioned? No, that's okay. I really like this one. I don't know the offer author, but it's called built to sell and I like it because it really appeals to the structure integrator side of me and thinking through how you do things in your business and really trying to systematize things.
So that your business, doesn't rely on you a hundred percent of the time. And so that's been really important for me as I've been growing my family ive been pregnant for most of the time that I've had this business and also have a toddler. And so figuring out how to not have the weight of the entire business on my shoulders has been a pretty big priority for me over the last year.
so I would recommend that book built to [00:32:00] sell, but it kind of goes along the same lines of like clockwork and E-Myth revisited those types of books
Emma-Louise: okay. I'm going to link rocket fuel as well for anyone that wants to read a bit more about the whole integrator visionary thing. Cause they think it's an important concept to get, if you are building a business and as you say in the midst of all this overnight success, more inverted comma's, you were pregnant.
Yeah. Running around after a
Jordan: toddler.
Emma-Louise: Oh, Jordan, thank you so much for coming and being so open and sharing all of that with us. I'm going to pop all of your links in the show notes. So if anyone wants to come and connect with you, they'll be able to find you there.
Jordan: Fantastic. Thank you. This was great.
Emma-Louise: [00:00:00] Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the ambitious Introvert podcast. I'm Emma-Louise and I'm joined today by the lovely Jordan. Now, first off before I say anything, I'm going to hand over to you Jordan, to introduce yourself and tell my audience a little bit about you and your business.
Jordan: Yeah.
Okay, great. So I own a contract CEO agency called easy scaling. This is my third and newest business. It's still kind of in its infancy. And we do full business management for female entrepreneurs.
Emma-Louise: I love it. And I want that to be out before we said we connected over Instagram but not in the way that people might necessarily expect.
So I think we'd kind of been in each other's circles. I think you had worked with a coach that I'd had as a guest on the podcast and various things. So I think it senior and Facebook groups and things, [00:01:00] but I just remember you messaged me one day on Instagram and you were. I just listened to your latest podcast episode and I'm, I'm done with Instagram.
I'm deleting.
Jordan: Yup. Yup. You gave me the permission. I can't remember which episode it was, maybe the one with Julia
Emma-Louise: I think it
was with Julie
Julie, but I don't know what Julia and I would have said too. I don't know. Julia was probably like, do whatever you want.
Jordan: Yeah. I was like, oh, I can do that. Okay. Well I'm done.
Emma-Louise: So what, what, what was it about, okay.
We don't know maybe what it was about the episode, but. what had been kind of bubbling up for you around Instagram. And I'm interested in this because I know a lot of people struggle with that platform
Jordan: yeah, I think for me, what kept happening is I would try to be consistent and then I would get kind of burnt out.
It was like little mini cycles of burnout and every time it would happen. I would, it was because I was feeling like, okay, I have to do it this way. So I have to buy this reels course and I [00:02:00] have to buy this course on this. And I have to figure out all the things I have to be doing everything perfectly, or it's not worth my time to show up on this platform.
And I was just totally exhausted. I was like, well, maybe I just don't have to be on it at all.
Emma-Louise: That's easier. It is it's feedback. I hear all the time. I know a lot of people struggle with that. And I think because it is such a fast moving. You know, there's always new things coming out. There's always something to learn.
Like you say, it's like, oh, it's reels and it's this. And then it's, it's this think you could spend a full-time job just trying to maintain like a presence on Instagram yeah,
Jordan: absolutely. Yeah. And I am, you know, I am back on it, but, in a very different way than I was on it before. So it's, I think it took me getting off of it completely to realize I could come back and just do it in the way that I wanted to do it.
You know,
Emma-Louise: you needed to cold Turkey. Yeah. Yeah. I did the, I had a burnout from Instagram or back in [00:03:00] 2020. I took about two months off it, but when I came back. I mean, it wasn't just Instagram to be fair. lets not blame the platform, I didn't have a clue who my ideal client was. So creating in any kind of content was quite exhausting and useless.
But when I came back, I did know who my ideal client was. And I unfollowed so many people and muted a lot as well because I was, I was consuming so much and then I would get really tired because there's consuming creating anything. So I had, I think sometimes when you have complete break from something, you can come back with fresh.
eyes
Jordan: Yeah, absolutely. And I have tried to set boundaries with it for certain things. And I, I find that I'm more of, I'm more of an all or nothing kind of person and like, oh, I'll only be on there for, you know, 20 minutes a day. I just couldn't, I couldn't do it that way. It didn't work.
Emma-Louise: No. Well, there you go live and learn and leads us perfectly into one of the main things we're going to discuss today.
And what I loved when you filled out the form for the podcast is this idea of your zone of genius being [00:04:00] constant improvements. And that really, it was like, Ooh. do you know your human design by.
Jordan: I don't
Emma-Louise: know. Okay. So my profile is a one three, which means it basically constant improvement. The one is like, you want to keep learning and understanding and know more.
And then three is like, you have to go and actually live it before you believe it. So you have to kind of try it out. So can be quite exhausting, but, but it's also fun. And, so yeah, so that really piqued my interest because. I see that as positive, but I can also see how the shadow of it can hold us back as entrepreneurs.
So we'll come back to that. But first of all, tell us a little bit about your story because you, you didn't just start an online business and like plug and play and off you go, you've got a really varied background.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. It's it's taken me almost a decade to get to where I am now, which is what feels like I finally made it.
I'm doing what [00:05:00] I love to do. It's working. It feels easy, but, that has definitely not always been the case. my first business, I started with my mom by complete accident almost a decade ago. It was in college and scholarship prep. And I think a lot of. A lot of entrepreneurs start businesses on accident because you know, they see a need or they create something and it's like, well, I guess, you know, people need to know this or I can help people with this.
Uh, so it was very much one of those situations where, you know, we had this personal experience with me applying to college and getting scholarships and my mom being on the other side of that and reviewing scholarships on scholarship review boards, and then having a younger brother coming up, who, who was.
Not the same type of student that I was. And we knew that he was going to need more help with the process. So we tried to create this system, talk about constant improvement. That's kind of just how our brains work is. Everything can be put kind of in a system there's a right way to do things. I'm an [00:06:00] Enneagram one.
And so we created this system and then found that all of these parents were like, wait, what do you mean? Isn't, isn't the school doing this for us? Like, what do you mean we have to do this? I ended up creating this business that I had for sevenish years and then sold it to a nonprofit.
Emma-Louise: Wow. So quiet a different start
yes. And then where did you go from there? You sold the business. How did you go from that? To where we are now?
Jordan: So that, that business really. Thrust me into this online, you know, digital business space, female entrepreneurs, all of that. And I didn't, I always tell everyone, like, I didn't know. Anything about running a business, let alone like an online business.
I didn't know what a freebie was like funnels weren't even really like things back then. I mean, they were, but nobody was talking about them and, email lists and I was just [00:07:00] totally fresh and new and had no idea what I was doing. So we learned all of that. The hard way. Through the years and the more I got into it, the more that I really loved that community.
Jordan: And so I ended up starting a second business by accident
Emma-Louise: iI wonder what we are going to name this episode.
Jordan: Um, so I met, someone who's a very, very good friend of mine now. I ended up being the co-founder of the second business of mine. We met at a networking event and we were both just like, totally this enchanted with local networking, we wanted more support. We wanted really intimate, like in-person support for female entrepreneurs and it wasn't a thing.
And so we're like, let's start a mastermind. Like I have people are doing this, they're doing it online. Like we can totally bring a group of women together and support each other. And so we did, and then that ended up blossoming into. This business where we were doing, I guess, coaching, [00:08:00] coaching women on how to create masterminds and group programs.
And again was totally accidental and how we pivoted into that. And, uh, eventually decided that we wanted to pursue our own strengths, which was great. I mean, I always tell people I've had two partnerships. Both of which have ended, but have ended so beautifully and easily and on great terms, which is great because one of my business partners was my mom.
So that's great. and so, you know, I really wanted to lean more into the things that I love to do, which are being in the weeds, being in the details, doing the implementation. If anyone's read the book rocket fuel, you know, and you've heard of this concept of a visionary and integrator, I am an integrator through and through.
I mean, I have definitely some visionary tendencies and which is why I love to run my own business, but, I love being an integrator. And so I wanted to lean into that. Where this new business, the first business I've started by [00:09:00] myself and the first business I've started on purpose.
Emma-Louise: Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah. Third time's the charm.
Emma-Louise: But what I think is so true and you know, the online space can really make us think everything happens straight away, overnight, you know, all of this, and that's not to say that it, that it can't happen very quickly and, and it can, but you wouldn't be where you are now, if you hadn't had those other experiences.
Jordan: Yeah, a hundred percent. And even the experiences that I've had in. In my nine to five, I've worked in non-profit spaces for also almost a decade since I was out of school. And, even those experiences I find have been so valuable in how I do things and the things that I choose not to do as well. and, and so, yeah, I think.
Even though, I think I'm kind of lucky in that I've experienced both sides of that. Like the very quick growth with my newest business and like, feeling like I'm very aligned and things [00:10:00] worked very fast, but I've also experienced the, oh wait, but this took me a decade to get to, you know?
Emma-Louise: Yeah. I, I definitely had some mindset stuff around because when I bought my business online, I was a coach, but I didn't know anything about business.
So I knew that I knew how to coach I've been doing that for years. And I had all of that experience, but business, I was clueless, like completely clueless. actually I started this brand by accident. I never planned to be a business coach, but as an introvert empire, highly sensitive, then coming online to bring a business online.
I realized that there was a gap because no one was catering for people like us that needed maybe to take things a bit slower or, you know, digest things in a different way. So this is kind of accident kind of accidental as well. But, you know, I remember feeling like my business wasn't growing quickly enough and talking to my coach about it.
And she's because I felt like I'd been trying to do it for [00:11:00] years because it been in my mind for. You know, 18 months before I'd even come online. And then I come online and I just like done loads of research because I'm a one. And then I finally like joined a group program and then, and then I changed like niche complete and all of this.
And in my mind, it's not working because day one was the actual day one. And she was like, no day one is the day that you went, oh, I'm actually going to be a business coach for introverts. Like that is your day one. And if I look at that now my growth has been really fast.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I think people definitely underestimate and overlook and undervalue all of that, foundational work to get where you want to be.
Emma-Louise: So we're going to talk about constant improvement, which I find very exciting. And as I said, the shadow of that, and you touched on it yourself as well, is the, when is good enough enough? So you said about like the Instagram thing. Where like, oh, I [00:12:00] want it to be perfect. I wanted to get it all. All right.
And do it perfectly. So it does actually like, kind of don't bother because it's never right now, this isn't the focus, but. Like, I love to improve and I love to learn, and I know a lot of my audience do, and especially when they care deeply about a topic or passionate about it, but how do you balance that? Like constant improvement with, okay, this is good enough to run with and I can keep learning kind of alongside it.
Jordan: Oh, man. I definitely feel the double edge of, of this, because like I said, I'm an Enneagram one so I have to work really hard, not to frame everything as being right and wrong know, so there's a right way to do things. And this is really it's benefited me in so many ways because. ' I think that does drive the constant improvement for me, because I'm always looking for ways [00:13:00] to tweak and change and adjust and improve everything that I do.
Like big picture, but also like the teeny tiny minutia of things that I'm doing. Which is why I think it's my zone of genius and my superpower, but, it can be, it can be exhausting if you, if you go too far with it. And, you know, I think about some of the conversations that I have with one of my coaches and.
It's like, well, I'm either, I'm either hitting my max goal or I'm a failure. Like those are the two options sometimes that I see. And she's like, now wait a minute. Let's like put all of this in context and think about like, what have you actually done? Let's look at the evidence, you know? Cause otherwise it is.
You can get in that trap of just continuing to, to stack your goals and, always be improving everything and, and never taking the time to look and see like, oh my gosh, this is what I've done, you know? and so [00:14:00] I think, I think one of, one of the things that I've really tried to do when it comes to trying things in my business is to actually try them.
And I have. My grandpa to thank for this. And I don't talk about him very often, but he, he is just like the wisest person in the world, I think. And he told me very, very early on in my life, I was super young. He's like, you know, decisions are like clothes. Sometimes you have to try them on to know if you like them or not.
And so that, that has really helped me that like kind of mantra and framing of I'm not going to know if it's perfect, perfect in quotes. Right. I'm not going to know if it works until I try it and that's going to be the way that I'm going to get the evidence to know if I need to then adjust. And so never waiting until I feel like it's perfect and it looks perfect on paper, but actually just getting it out there as quickly as possible, whatever it is and [00:15:00] offer copy or anything, and trying it, and then tweaking from there.
Emma-Louise: I love him.
Jordan: Yeah, he's the best.
Emma-Louise: He'd make a great
coach.
Jordan: I know he would.
Emma-Louise: That's a great analogy,
but it's so true. I mean, I think about things that I have spent wasted so much time over, you know, like I can go create this great product and I've done all this stuff and I've written a sales page and I've just invested so much into it.
And then I've put it out. It hasn't done that. Well, I'm like, oh, and then I've made it mean something about me, which it doesn't the, one of the most profitable things I ever did in my business. I just had this like ping of intuition. And I was like, oh, I'm going to do that. I've made this plan to launch a group with my coach.
And I was like, I don't want to launch a group I wanna launch your mastermind. And I just went back to her. I was like, I don't, I don't want to do a group. I want to do a mastermind. [00:16:00] Okay. I was like, I just want three people in it do it. I'll just email my list. And I emailed my list and 10 people applied and I ended up running two pods of it.
And from that people have gone on to work one-on-one with me, some people applied and then we're like, oh wait, could I just get an intensive instead? Like, it was insane, but that, you know, there's no predicting. Like you say, until you try, you just don't know what's going
to happen.
Jordan: It's the only way to get evidence is to try.
That's the only way
Emma-Louise: as a one. Do
you, I don't talk too much about the Enneagram on here. Maybe I should get an Enneagram specialist on, but as a one, do you want that data for evidence to be like, I can see a metric. I can see it's working.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. and I want it immediately, which is that's the problem I want to know immediately.
And so I get impatient. I'm an impatient one. I don't know if everyone is impatient, but I definitely am.
Emma-Louise: [00:17:00] Patience has been a journey for me. Most of my friends would say that I'm not very patient. My clients will say that I'm patient, but I think it's a different capacity when you know, and there for the needs.
But, I, I am not very patient either. I am the person that would, I, I worked through a lot of this, but like send an email and then like half an hour later, look and see if anyones read it
I'm a metric checker.
Half of my email list, probably asleep cause like different times, like for a start, but is that I think we can very much when we're running a business gets so stuck on our own timescale and when we want things to happen and not realize that everyone else has got there timescale as well.
Yeah,
Jordan: for sure.
Emma-Louise: So. Obviously you identify as an introvert. Do you identify as an intuitive introvert? [00:18:00]
Jordan: I have just recently. Really embraced that. and I've worked a lot with, I have a couple of coaches, but one of them that I've, I've worked with a lot on this is around just trusting my gut. And this goes with pretty much every decision that I make in my business, but especially like the clients that I select, and things like that.
And I found that. I have a pretty keen sense on how things are going to go, almost always, but it's taken me a long time to. To get to trusting that. And I'm so lucky that I have her because she's really helped pull that out of me and allow me to lean into it. And then when I don't do it, it's always great when I don't do it.
And then I look back and I'm like, oh no, I knew I wasn't supposed to do that. And I did it anyway and now I'm paying for it. And so now I'm going to trust my gut even more the next time,
Emma-Louise: which is still data and evidence. It's just not in the form of metrics. It's just the [00:19:00] way for you to look and be like, Hmm, I think it's so easy for us to.
I can say lose in inverted commas our intuition or lose touch with it. you know, especially people come from a corporate background where it's not the kind of the, you can't say like, oh, I just feel like this would be a better direction for this project. You know, they, they want proof, they want data.
and even depending on where you are in the business, like you say, you're more of an integrator, so it is more about structure and systems and all of that. But I think it's important to know theres always room for intuition, like it was probably your intuition that said I need to get off Instagram. Yeah. Like let's just, let's just take some.
Jordan: Yeah. And, and if I think about it, if I think about that even more like going back years and years, and like when I quit my nine to five and like all these different decisions that I've made that have been pretty big decisions, it's definitely been based on a feeling like I do a lot around like my logical brain.
Like I run spreadsheets. I do all the [00:20:00] things all the time. but all of those big decisions come usually come down to. Like, how does it feel? Does it feel heavy or does it feel light? And that's like, pretty much the only question I ever need to ask myself to know. What I should do.
Emma-Louise: I love that. And I think when you relate it to something like the density of energy, like, does it feel heavy?
Does it feel like everyone has that concept of when something feels like that there's a really easy way to check it rather than worrying about like, is it perfect? Is it going to work long-term and you know, I don't have the data. I don't have the evidence is knowing that, like, I've got this feeling about how it feels right now.
Jordan: Yeah. And having a light for. I think I used to get them confused a little bit with like hard and easy. They're very different. They're very different because sometimes a lot of the things that I do like is scary and is going to be hard. but it still feels lighter than the other decision. If that makes sense like that, that's what I've like [00:21:00] honed in on.
It may be different for other people. Like the, how it actually feels like physically. But for me, it's definitely been heavy and light.
Emma-Louise: The thing with heavy for me is there are tasks that have to be done in my business that are easy. I'm going to say inverted commas again, but they're heavy for me. Like they've, they're very easy.
They can replicate them. They are repetitive. Task, but they're not in my zone of genius. You know, they're the kind of zone of competence things. And it's like, oh, and it's funny, you mentioned like the visionary integrator, one of my clients like huge visionary, massive visionary. And she hired an OBM for the first time.
And she was like, But she's going to do like all of these awful tasks and it's like, but she loves that your OBM loves that. Like she's the integrator. That's exactly what, and my client could [00:22:00] not, she always felt at least literally had this disconnect. She was like, how can she enjoy like scheduling email and how can she enjoy like doing the spreadsheet with whatever I say, because she's not, you know, she's completely different to you.
I think it's interesting to know that like your worst nightmare is someone else's dream and they get paid to do it. Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah. That's crazy. Wish we could all just lean into that.
Emma-Louise: Yes, it's so true. I look at a lot of my clients. They're like creatives and designers. I'm not the most creative person and I just go, Ooh, no, no, thank you.
It's all. But then they go, I couldn't coach people. So I guess it works both ways.
Jordan: Yeah. I found out that I'm not the greatest coach. I think this is probably my one, but I'm like, let me just tell you how to do it. Just do this, actually just let me do it for you.
Emma-Louise: I was going to say, if you're in, like, here do this category, [00:23:00] then you probably great mentor.
But when it's like the, let me do it for you. It's like, okay. Yeah, I love it. I think it's just so important to highlight. Everyone's got different skills. Everyone's got different talents and everyone enjoys different things. Like my OBM she's like, I love what I do, but she literally just adores being behind people's businesses and everything that, that comes with that she doesn't really like the forward facing stuff.
She's got no interest in being on social media, any of that, but she's like, oh, give me all of the like tech and everything behind the scenes and she's happy.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah. I feel like. Again, like it, it took so long for me to figure out what I wanted to do. And I think it's because I enjoy both. And, you know, so I mentioned, I, I feel pretty far on the integrator scale, but I also feel like I have a lot of that, those visionary tendencies.
And I do, [00:24:00] I do like to be the face of what I do and I love, you know, sales calls and like all of this stuff and that I. I would hate not to be able to do all of those things. And I love the managing of the team. And it's just, it's not, it's not what I'm doing now is not even something that I knew was a thing.
Like I didn't even know that it was possible. and so I, you know, I keep, I keep kind of like thinking on that on, especially in the space that we're in this online business space is it feels like. There's only a few options, you know, like you're a coach or you're a VA or you're a graphic designer, or you're a copywriter and it's like here, your pick, pick your, your bucket, you know?
and so I don't, I honestly, I wish I had some advice, but I don't, I just, I want people to know that there, there are like so many options and you can do. You can totally make [00:25:00] this all up. And I wish someone would have told me that sooner.
Emma-Louise: Yeah. I T I totally sign off on that. I have come across in the last three and a bit years, I have come across some of the most niche businesses that you think, how can that, like, how can there be a need for that?
And then not only is there a need for it, but they are so profitable because they're in their category of one. And doing the absolute best at what they do, but I get time and time again. This has happened to me. So I'm glad you said that. Cause I do think people feel they've got to, I know that when I came online and I was more focused on life and mindset coaching, and I had a coach that was like, no, you need to work with entrepreneurs because only business coaches make money.
And I was like,
Jordan: wow. I've paid lots of other coaches. So that can't be true.
Emma-Louise: Yeah, exactly. You know, funny now look in my client, I've got, I think one business coach plan [00:26:00] and that's it like no one else and they're making money. So I'm like, I didn't think that was strictly true, but, yeah, I think when you give yourself.
Freedom to be creative. And, you know, I say everyone's so unique and individual, but everyone's journey is as well. So like, if you hadn't been on your journey of having the businesses that you've had, you wouldn't have the skillset or you wouldn't have seen the opportunity for what you do now.
Jordan: Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean, I think it's the second business that I had, with my business partner, Cassie, and that really hit home the integrator side of things, because she was like visionary through and through. And if you know Enneagram, she was an Enneagram seven, so we're complete opposites. And it almost pushed me even more into that role.
And I was like, This is actually quite easy for me. I could do this like all the time.
Emma-Louise: I love it. And again, you know, until you tried it, you didn't know that you would enjoy it. It's I think so many people get caught up on. [00:27:00] Making the right decision and not making a mistake. And, you know, as a society, obviously there in the states, as well as here in the UK, but there's so much on getting it right.
First time you, you know, you need to pass first time in to get an, a plus, or you need to like all of this. And our society and our education, we don't say go and experiment and try and just see what maybe, you know, some more progressive schools like Montessori schools and things. But, but generally it's like, you know, you did good or you did bad and that's it.
And if you didn't get it right first time you failed and its like, oh, and I just see women that come with. Amazing skillsets, brilliant backgrounds, but they so scared to do something in case it's wrong. And it's like, it can't be wrong because even if it's not the right thing, long-term, you will have learned something from it.
Jordan: Yeah. I think at least big picture, you could frame constant improvement really as constant [00:28:00] failure, like the same thing. and I think about, you know, I feel so fortunate and what I've been able to build so quickly with my new business. But if, I think back to a year ago today, well, about a year ago, I was still in a nine to five and I was experimenting with all kinds of offers, you know, to get out of my nine to five.
And it feels like it was years and years and years ago. I think that's because I tried so many different things in that first six months of 20, 21, like I just threw everything at the wall, like, okay, I'm a mentor. And like, okay, now I do this and now I do this and now I'm running this group program. And really just like you said, experimenting and trying to figure out what felt easy for me.
or what felt light. but yeah, again, it all, I, I. It just goes back to you. You've just, you've just got to try it.
Emma-Louise: So before we wrap up, what do you love about this business? The, you, [00:29:00] you haven't had previously, is there something about it? that, you just feel that like, oh, I'm home.
Jordan: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Like I said, you know, I shouldn't call myself a bad coach, but I really do think that don't thrive in that role.
And, but I like to do that type of work. Like I like, like you said, maybe we'll call it mentor, or consultant. I mean, there's a lot of different words, you know, people throw around, but for me, living in the big picture strategy and actually partnering with CEOs to make decisions on how to do things in their business.
Instead of, you know, you think of an OBM role, which is kind of like there's some strategy for sure. Involved, for OBMs. but I feel like I get to actually show up, you know, as a CEO, as a partner, to someone who is this big picture, visionary and kind of balance them out and ground them so that we can make concrete decisions about what we're going to do.
And then. [00:30:00] I get to actually make sure it gets done at the quality and the level that I expect it, which is very high again, because Enneagram one, but I don't have to actually do it. So, you know, I have a team of like a dozen women and so they all do it. And then I just get to see it come together.
I don't know. It's just, I feel so, so fortunate.
Emma-Louise: So, and just for anyone that's listening before we move on to your book recommendation, I'm just going to recap that that you've been in business 10 years. You've tried a lot of different things a year ago. You're in your nine to five and now you have a team of 12 women.
Jordan: Yeah. Okay. So, so it happens really fast, after 10 years,
Emma-Louise: the overnight success that took 10 years.
Jordan: Exactly.
Emma-Louise: So I know you are a listener, so you will know that I'm going to ask you to recommend a book that any introverts empaths and highly sensitive entrepreneurs who are either looking to start grow or scale their online business could benefit from reading.[00:31:00]
Mm
Jordan: Hmm. Okay. Besides listening to murder, she wrote at night to fall asleep. and if you don't listen to that, you should on audio. Uh, there's so many good ones. And I think some of these have been mentioned, but has the book built to sell? been mentioned? No, that's okay. I really like this one. I don't know the offer author, but it's called built to sell and I like it because it really appeals to the structure integrator side of me and thinking through how you do things in your business and really trying to systematize things.
So that your business, doesn't rely on you a hundred percent of the time. And so that's been really important for me as I've been growing my family ive been pregnant for most of the time that I've had this business and also have a toddler. And so figuring out how to not have the weight of the entire business on my shoulders has been a pretty big priority for me over the last year.
so I would recommend that book built to [00:32:00] sell, but it kind of goes along the same lines of like clockwork and E-Myth revisited those types of books
Emma-Louise: okay. I'm going to link rocket fuel as well for anyone that wants to read a bit more about the whole integrator visionary thing. Cause they think it's an important concept to get, if you are building a business and as you say in the midst of all this overnight success, more inverted comma's, you were pregnant.
Yeah. Running around after a
Jordan: toddler.
Emma-Louise: Oh, Jordan, thank you so much for coming and being so open and sharing all of that with us. I'm going to pop all of your links in the show notes. So if anyone wants to come and connect with you, they'll be able to find you there.
Jordan: Fantastic. Thank you. This was great.
